From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 01:20:22 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 01:20:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] From the English daily, Kashmir Images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Friends, S Jabbar has asked a good question " What Next " There is no answer, but ... These days i am thinking about the role of "Detail" in our life, since we are mostly driven by something which is logically and boldly defined. Detail is perhaps, more poetic, but i see a huge undercurrent of politics too in it. Detail is closer to texture, small movements of particles under the water. I sometimes see the image with a magnifier, even if the image is quite visible to the naked eye. Derrida says there if FIRE in Magnifier. i see lot of good thought around in the discussion. but if we bring ' the detail ' into the conversation of grand narrative, i see, human beings asking similar questions in the world in different ways, They are about restoration of right, mostly, if not always change of territories, but there is an analogue, always... even when they go out and cheat their spouses. there is something more to us on this planet earth, than meets the eye. We will never be content with one independence, but a series of it... sometimes it is explicitly about freedom from the territory, which people see as bartan ( pot ) cooking them all the time, and others see it something very essential, similar to the existence of God. But if we discover that our misery is emanating out from this hierarchy of form over the detail, then our optimism may be a little realistic. Presently, most of the philosophers/intellectuals see the world coming to an end, sooner or later, given the way we manage our systems/styles. Thanks to "IWC" ( integrated world capitalism, ) Most of the poor people, yes, dont know even that they are suffering because the State is indifferent to them ( read eg ,our food grains rot ). but when the entire country is controlled by those who steal our Time, ( read,Media and other numerous unimportant distractions ) we probably do some violence to our own consciousness, by not looking around the vital Details which sustain us. We also do some violence to the rights of those who dare to say:" we want change".if we hesitate to say that these voices are closer to details, not about Statuesque. There was a time, when leadership was moving the people like sheep, and never bothered about the details of masses. There is no time with us to sing songs for those great leaders, but we may dream some new thought: which does not need a rudderless leadership to siphon Rs.600000 crores for CWG in Delhi. ( games of politicians ), we need to invest in Details, very sincerely, not to imitate the so called developed world's design and structure... ( economy of which is mostly sustained by monopoly of trade practices ) We perhaps, need, some madness even. with love is On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:17 PM, SJabbar wrote: > Could be, Jeebesh, and that IS an interesting idea, but I'm afraid the > present is fuelled by rage and rage alone.  Not sure it can sustain itself > beyond a point. Rage tends to burn itself out and then you land up at the > door of the inevitable question, "what next?"  This what next is the big > political question and implies the inevitable engaging with your enemy in a > more sustainable way, perhaps as in a dialogue.  But dialogue on what when > there is no consensus in the crowd about the meaning of azadi. > > > > On 31/08/10 5:37 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > >> > On 31-Aug-10, at 5:23 PM, we wi wrote: > >> Waiting for Godot >> Manzoor >> Anjum >> >> The problem with our leadership is that instead of leading, they >> >> just follow >> the crowds. > > Can we not think this as a problem? > > But as an >> emerging reality full of potential for a possible new > counter-politics that >> has already disturbed the consensus and is > striving for a new language. The >> deep enmeshing of the "political" > with state-power and capital is now a >> consensus and a common-sense. > The present " acting without leaders" maybe a >> way out in a much deeper >> > way. > > warmly > jeebesh > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: >> an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To >> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in >> the subject header. > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From dulali.nag at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 09:13:10 2010 From: dulali.nag at gmail.com (DULALI NAG) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 09:13:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] From the English daily, Kashmir Images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My thanks to Inder for raising a very important question. It takes courage to speak critically of big narratives. Dulali On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Inder Salim wrote: > Friends, > > S Jabbar has asked a good question " What Next " There is no answer, but > ... > > These days i am thinking about the role of "Detail" in our life, since > we are mostly driven by something which is logically and boldly > defined. Detail is perhaps, more poetic, but i see a huge > undercurrent of politics too in it. Detail is closer to texture, small > movements of particles under the water. I sometimes see the image with > a magnifier, even if the image is quite visible to the naked eye. > Derrida says there if FIRE in Magnifier. > > i see lot of good thought around in the discussion. but if we bring ' > the detail ' into the conversation of grand narrative, i see, human > beings asking similar questions in the world in different ways, They > are about restoration of right, mostly, if not always change of > territories, but there is an analogue, always... even when they go > out and cheat their spouses. there is something more to us on this > planet earth, than meets the eye. We will never be content with one > independence, but a series of it... > > sometimes it is explicitly about freedom from the territory, which > people see as bartan ( pot ) cooking them all the time, and others see > it something very essential, similar to the existence of God. But if > we discover that our misery is emanating out from this hierarchy of > form over the detail, then our optimism may be a little realistic. > Presently, most of the philosophers/intellectuals see the world coming > to an end, sooner or later, given the way we manage our > systems/styles. Thanks to "IWC" ( integrated world capitalism, ) > > Most of the poor people, yes, dont know even that they are suffering > because the State is indifferent to them ( read eg ,our food grains > rot ). but when the entire country is controlled by those who steal > our Time, ( read,Media and other numerous unimportant distractions ) > we probably do some violence to our own consciousness, by not looking > around the vital Details which sustain us. > > We also do some violence to the rights of those who dare to say:" we > want change".if we hesitate to say that these voices are closer to > details, not about Statuesque. > > There was a time, when leadership was moving the people like sheep, > and never bothered about the details of masses. There is no time with > us to sing songs for those great leaders, but we may dream some new > thought: which does not need a rudderless leadership to siphon > Rs.600000 crores for CWG in Delhi. ( games of politicians ), we need > to invest in Details, very sincerely, not to imitate the so called > developed world's design and structure... ( economy of which is mostly > sustained by monopoly of trade practices ) > > We perhaps, need, some madness even. > > with love > is > > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:17 PM, SJabbar wrote: > > Could be, Jeebesh, and that IS an interesting idea, but I'm afraid the > > present is fuelled by rage and rage alone. Not sure it can sustain > itself > > beyond a point. Rage tends to burn itself out and then you land up at the > > door of the inevitable question, "what next?" This what next is the big > > political question and implies the inevitable engaging with your enemy in > a > > more sustainable way, perhaps as in a dialogue. But dialogue on what > when > > there is no consensus in the crowd about the meaning of azadi. > > > > > > > > On 31/08/10 5:37 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > >> > > On 31-Aug-10, at 5:23 PM, we wi wrote: > > > >> Waiting for Godot > >> Manzoor > >> Anjum > >> > >> The problem with our leadership is that instead of leading, they > >> > >> just follow > >> the crowds. > > > > Can we not think this as a problem? > > > > But as an > >> emerging reality full of potential for a possible new > > counter-politics that > >> has already disturbed the consensus and is > > striving for a new language. The > >> deep enmeshing of the "political" > > with state-power and capital is now a > >> consensus and a common-sense. > > The present " acting without leaders" maybe a > >> way out in a much deeper > >> > > way. > > > > warmly > > jeebesh > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: > >> an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To > >> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > >> the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Wed Sep 1 10:35:02 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 22:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Film Screenings in September Message-ID: <378321.57774.qm@web54402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Chandni Parekh sent a message to the members of Vikalp at Prithvi group on Facebook. Subject: Film Screenings in September Hi all, Here are some films that are being screened in September: Vikalp at TISS and ADDA Screening of 'Flames of the Snow' by Ashish Srivastava, Sep 1, Bombay 'Slave Girls of India' by Rakhi Varma, Sep 1, Delhi 'Impossible Dreams' by Werner Herzog, Sep 1-4, Kolkata EyeMyth Visual Music Festival, Sep 2, Delhi 'The Battle of Algiers' by Gillo Pontecorvo (French), Sep 3, Delhi Film Screening at a Photography Exhibition titled 'Hard Rain: Our Headlong Collision with Nature', Sep 4-10, Delhi 'Ustad Asad Ali Khan – A Portrait' by Renuka George, Sep 6, Delhi 'Travelling Light – A Journey with Ujjal Dosanjh' by Meera Dewan, Sep 9, Delhi PSBT Open Frame 2010, Sep 10-16, Delhi Poetry Films, Sep 12, Kolkata The Development Film Festival, Sep 15-18, Madurai 'The President' by Henri Verneuil (French), Sep 17, Delhi 'Faecal Attraction' and 'Life Under Wildlife', Sep 18, Delhi 'Secrets of State' by Philippe Haïm (French), Sep 24, Delhi 2nd Nainital Film Festival, Sep 24-26 Vikalp at Prithvi presents 'The Real Face of Vedanta' by Surya Shankar Dash, 'Iron is Hot' by Biju Toppo and Meghnath and 'Before Dark' by Ajay TG, Monday, Sep 27, 7 PM, Juhu, Bombay 'Whose India (Partition)' produced by Doordarshan, Sep 28, Delhi For details, check the Discussion Board on http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=46819848804 - Chandni From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:37:48 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:37:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts Message-ID: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201248AAI2qXE What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you already know. I just put it there for reference. "In the film, in which you play yourself, you say to Pascale Ogier, your partner: "To be haunted by a ghost is to remember what one has never lived in the present... Modern technology, contrary to appearances, increases tenfold the power of ghosts." Might you elaborate on this statement: "the future belongs to ghosts?" Derrida replies with the following: ...Phantom preserves the same reference to phainesthai, to appearing for vision, to the brightness of day, to phenomenality. And what happens with spectrality, with phantomality... is that something becomes almost visible which is visible only insofar as it is not visible in flesh and blood. It is a night-vision [translation modified]. As soon as there is a technology of the image, visibility brings night. It incarnates in a night body, it radiates a night light. At this moment, in this room, night is falling over us. Even if it weren't falling, we are already in night, as soon as we are captured by optical instruments which don't even need the light of day. We are already specters of the "televised." In the nocturnal space in which this image of us, this picture we are in the process of having "taken," is described, it is already night. Furthermore, because we know that, once it has been taken, captured, this image will be reproducible in our absence, because we know this already, we are already haunted by this future, which brings our death. Our disappearance is already here. We are already transfixed by a disappearance or disapparition which promises and conceals in advance another magic "apparition," a ghostly "re-apparition," which is in truth properly miraculous, something to see, as admirable as it is incredible, credible or believable, only by the the grace of an act of faith [translation modified]. Faith which is summoned by technics itself, by our relation of essential incompetence to technical operation. (For even if we know how something works, our knowledge is incommensurable with the immediate perception that attunes us to technical efficacy, to the fact that "it works:" we see that "it works," but even if we know this, we don't see how "it works;" seeing and knowing are incommensurable here.)" -- From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:37:48 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:37:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts Message-ID: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201248AAI2qXE What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you already know. I just put it there for reference. "In the film, in which you play yourself, you say to Pascale Ogier, your partner: "To be haunted by a ghost is to remember what one has never lived in the present... Modern technology, contrary to appearances, increases tenfold the power of ghosts." Might you elaborate on this statement: "the future belongs to ghosts?" Derrida replies with the following: ...Phantom preserves the same reference to phainesthai, to appearing for vision, to the brightness of day, to phenomenality. And what happens with spectrality, with phantomality... is that something becomes almost visible which is visible only insofar as it is not visible in flesh and blood. It is a night-vision [translation modified]. As soon as there is a technology of the image, visibility brings night. It incarnates in a night body, it radiates a night light. At this moment, in this room, night is falling over us. Even if it weren't falling, we are already in night, as soon as we are captured by optical instruments which don't even need the light of day. We are already specters of the "televised." In the nocturnal space in which this image of us, this picture we are in the process of having "taken," is described, it is already night. Furthermore, because we know that, once it has been taken, captured, this image will be reproducible in our absence, because we know this already, we are already haunted by this future, which brings our death. Our disappearance is already here. We are already transfixed by a disappearance or disapparition which promises and conceals in advance another magic "apparition," a ghostly "re-apparition," which is in truth properly miraculous, something to see, as admirable as it is incredible, credible or believable, only by the the grace of an act of faith [translation modified]. Faith which is summoned by technics itself, by our relation of essential incompetence to technical operation. (For even if we know how something works, our knowledge is incommensurable with the immediate perception that attunes us to technical efficacy, to the fact that "it works:" we see that "it works," but even if we know this, we don't see how "it works;" seeing and knowing are incommensurable here.)" -- From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:37:48 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:37:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts Message-ID: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201248AAI2qXE What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you already know. I just put it there for reference. "In the film, in which you play yourself, you say to Pascale Ogier, your partner: "To be haunted by a ghost is to remember what one has never lived in the present... Modern technology, contrary to appearances, increases tenfold the power of ghosts." Might you elaborate on this statement: "the future belongs to ghosts?" Derrida replies with the following: ...Phantom preserves the same reference to phainesthai, to appearing for vision, to the brightness of day, to phenomenality. And what happens with spectrality, with phantomality... is that something becomes almost visible which is visible only insofar as it is not visible in flesh and blood. It is a night-vision [translation modified]. As soon as there is a technology of the image, visibility brings night. It incarnates in a night body, it radiates a night light. At this moment, in this room, night is falling over us. Even if it weren't falling, we are already in night, as soon as we are captured by optical instruments which don't even need the light of day. We are already specters of the "televised." In the nocturnal space in which this image of us, this picture we are in the process of having "taken," is described, it is already night. Furthermore, because we know that, once it has been taken, captured, this image will be reproducible in our absence, because we know this already, we are already haunted by this future, which brings our death. Our disappearance is already here. We are already transfixed by a disappearance or disapparition which promises and conceals in advance another magic "apparition," a ghostly "re-apparition," which is in truth properly miraculous, something to see, as admirable as it is incredible, credible or believable, only by the the grace of an act of faith [translation modified]. Faith which is summoned by technics itself, by our relation of essential incompetence to technical operation. (For even if we know how something works, our knowledge is incommensurable with the immediate perception that attunes us to technical efficacy, to the fact that "it works:" we see that "it works," but even if we know this, we don't see how "it works;" seeing and knowing are incommensurable here.)" -- From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:37:48 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:37:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts Message-ID: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201248AAI2qXE What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you already know. I just put it there for reference. "In the film, in which you play yourself, you say to Pascale Ogier, your partner: "To be haunted by a ghost is to remember what one has never lived in the present... Modern technology, contrary to appearances, increases tenfold the power of ghosts." Might you elaborate on this statement: "the future belongs to ghosts?" Derrida replies with the following: ...Phantom preserves the same reference to phainesthai, to appearing for vision, to the brightness of day, to phenomenality. And what happens with spectrality, with phantomality... is that something becomes almost visible which is visible only insofar as it is not visible in flesh and blood. It is a night-vision [translation modified]. As soon as there is a technology of the image, visibility brings night. It incarnates in a night body, it radiates a night light. At this moment, in this room, night is falling over us. Even if it weren't falling, we are already in night, as soon as we are captured by optical instruments which don't even need the light of day. We are already specters of the "televised." In the nocturnal space in which this image of us, this picture we are in the process of having "taken," is described, it is already night. Furthermore, because we know that, once it has been taken, captured, this image will be reproducible in our absence, because we know this already, we are already haunted by this future, which brings our death. Our disappearance is already here. We are already transfixed by a disappearance or disapparition which promises and conceals in advance another magic "apparition," a ghostly "re-apparition," which is in truth properly miraculous, something to see, as admirable as it is incredible, credible or believable, only by the the grace of an act of faith [translation modified]. Faith which is summoned by technics itself, by our relation of essential incompetence to technical operation. (For even if we know how something works, our knowledge is incommensurable with the immediate perception that attunes us to technical efficacy, to the fact that "it works:" we see that "it works," but even if we know this, we don't see how "it works;" seeing and knowing are incommensurable here.)" -- From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:37:48 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:37:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts Message-ID: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201248AAI2qXE What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you already know. I just put it there for reference. "In the film, in which you play yourself, you say to Pascale Ogier, your partner: "To be haunted by a ghost is to remember what one has never lived in the present... Modern technology, contrary to appearances, increases tenfold the power of ghosts." Might you elaborate on this statement: "the future belongs to ghosts?" Derrida replies with the following: ...Phantom preserves the same reference to phainesthai, to appearing for vision, to the brightness of day, to phenomenality. And what happens with spectrality, with phantomality... is that something becomes almost visible which is visible only insofar as it is not visible in flesh and blood. It is a night-vision [translation modified]. As soon as there is a technology of the image, visibility brings night. It incarnates in a night body, it radiates a night light. At this moment, in this room, night is falling over us. Even if it weren't falling, we are already in night, as soon as we are captured by optical instruments which don't even need the light of day. We are already specters of the "televised." In the nocturnal space in which this image of us, this picture we are in the process of having "taken," is described, it is already night. Furthermore, because we know that, once it has been taken, captured, this image will be reproducible in our absence, because we know this already, we are already haunted by this future, which brings our death. Our disappearance is already here. We are already transfixed by a disappearance or disapparition which promises and conceals in advance another magic "apparition," a ghostly "re-apparition," which is in truth properly miraculous, something to see, as admirable as it is incredible, credible or believable, only by the the grace of an act of faith [translation modified]. Faith which is summoned by technics itself, by our relation of essential incompetence to technical operation. (For even if we know how something works, our knowledge is incommensurable with the immediate perception that attunes us to technical efficacy, to the fact that "it works:" we see that "it works," but even if we know this, we don't see how "it works;" seeing and knowing are incommensurable here.)" -- From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Wed Sep 1 13:03:22 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artvideoKOELN) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 09:33:22 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?CologneOFF_VI_-_in_Budapest?= Message-ID: <20100901093322.9C49A19F.11C6A820@192.168.0.3> 1 September 2010 ----------------------------------- CologneOFF & artvideoKOELN are happy to launch the preview of CologneOFF VI - Let's Celebrate! 6th Cologne International Videoart Festival directed by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne celebrating its 5th anniversary in the context of ---> BuSho - 6th Budapest International Short Film Festival - 1-5 September 2010 - http://www.busho.hu presenting a selection of experimental film and videoart from the future CologneOFF VI festival program based on the results of the international jury consisting of Margarida Paiva ( Norway), Gioula Papadopoulou (Greece) Macu Moran (Spain), Giorgio Fedeli (taly) Jonas Nilsson/Eva Olsson (Sweden) Mohamed Allam (Egypt), Tamas Gabeli (Hungary) featuring Shota Gamisonia (Russia) - Field, Clowns, Apple, 2008, 15:00 Ayman Azraq (Palestine) - Passport, 2007, 6:30 Mohammed Harb (Palestine) - Without Windows, 2009, 5:00 Rosa Futuro (Italy) - The Future is Rosy, 2010, 8:00 Shahar Marcus (Israel) - Homecoming Artist, 2008, 4:37 Dellani Lima (Brazil) - Bolivia, I miss you, 2009, 7:00 Robby Rackleff (USA) - Dark Fortress Occult Master of Space: Genesis Genesis, 2009, 3:00 Barry Morse (USA) - Mouse's Birthday, 2010, 3:35 Francesca Fini (Italy) - Cry Me, 2009, 4:34 Ulf Kristiansen (Norway) - The Hope of Enduring Long, 2010, 1:00 Cyane Tornatzky (USA) - SELF PORTRAIT:The Home Scientist Gets to Know Herself, 2006, 5:53 Irina Gabiani: (Georgia) - Diachronicon, 2010, 1:00 Angela Washko (USA) - Washko's PR, 2010, 2:00 Adam Dragojevich (Croatia) - Sweet Memory, 2010, 1:00 Bijoyini Chatterjee (Indiia) - When I was, 2009, 9:51 Jack Brandtman (Australia) - Nightlife, 2010, 1:00 --------------------------------------------------- CologneOFF - Cologne International Videoart Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org info (at) coff.newmediafest.org artvideoKOELN - the initiative "art and moving images" http://video.mediaartcologne.org artvideo (at) koeln.de --------------------------------------------------- From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Wed Sep 1 15:39:17 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (VideoChannel) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:09:17 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?VideoChannel=3A_Videoart_from_Portug?= =?iso-8859-1?q?al?= Message-ID: <20100901120917.8C14B401.19488C0A@192.168.0.3> Fonlad - Digital Art Festival Coimbra/PT Videolab Project Portugal & artvideoKOELN proudly present on VideoChannel the Feature of the Month September 2010 --> Videoart from Portugal curated by Pedro Almeida & Sergio Gomes http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=1089 featuring António Olaio Fernando José Pereira Francisco Queirós João Pombeiro José Maçãs de Carvalho Margarida Paiva Paulo Mendes Susana Mendes Silva Vasco Araújo Enter the online feature on http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=1089 ----------------------------------------- VideoChannel - global videoart http://videochannel.newmediafest.org artvideoKOELN - the initiative "art & moving images" http://video.mediaartcologne.org artvideo (at) koeln.de ----------------------------------------- From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Wed Sep 1 18:00:43 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 05:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Rohini with Wednesday Message-ID: <421905.12041.qm@web45507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Friends,                KASTHURI TILAKAM LALATA PHALAKE          VAKSHASTHALE KAUSTUBHAM   NASAGRE NAVMAUKTIKAM         KARATALEE VENUMKARE KANKANAM         SARVANGRE HARI CHANDANANCHA KALAYAM         KANTHECHA MUKHTAVALI GOPASTRI PARIVESHTITAU         VIJAYATHE GOPALA CHOODAMANI.            Wishing you all a happy "Janmashtami".   Regards, Dhatri. From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Wed Sep 1 18:47:24 2010 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Express solidarity with the people of Kashmir Message-ID: <87995.9991.qm@web112618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It is time that the citizens of India who believe in India and believe in Kashmir as a part of India put forward their views in public spaces that are otherwise being hijacked by Kashmiri Separatists and their supporters and apologists from elsewhere in India.   This is an Excellent initiative by "MANUSHI"   Express solidarity with the people of Kashmir Date: September 3, 2010 Memorandum presented to Sonia Gandhi: 5.30 PM Candlelight vigil: 7 PM onwards Venue correction: Central Park, Connaught Place (not India Gate)   Please do read the Memorandum http://www.manushi.in/memorandum.php   You might not agree with all it's contents but please do sign it if you agree with the attitudes it advocates   .............. aalok aima     Express solidarity with the people of Kashmir An Appeal to all Concerned Citizens Manushi: Citizens First Forum requests you to join a citizens delegation to present a memorandum to Smt Sonia Gandhi, Chairperson UPA on the unprecedented crisis in Jammu and Kashmir and participate in a candlelight vigil in the memory of the innocents who have lost their lives in the current phase of violence in the state. We also urge you to sign the Resolution given below. Date: September 3, 2010 Submission of Memorandum: 5.30 p.m. Venue: AICC office, 24 Akbar Road, New Delhi Candle Light Vigil: 7.00 p.m with Sufi music by Madan Gopal Singh and Youth Expressions from Kashmir Venue: Central Park, Connaught Place    (not India Gate) Kashmir is again on fire. The Kashmiri people are living out what may well be the worst nightmare in their history. In the last 75 days sixty four young men and school going children have lost their lives to police bullets. Hundreds more, women, children and security personnel, are grievously injured. Those killed or injured are not militants or cross border terrorists- just ordinary young men aspiring to live an ordinary life of dignity. All they have done to deserve the ferocity of the State’s coercive might is to protest against the killing of their innocent brethren and to express their rage for having to live under the shadow of the gun, under conditions of unending, relentless fear, security pickets, at every few yards, in every street and mohalla, search operations, arbitrary arrests, crackdowns and deaths due to custodial violence. Similarly, the men of security forces who have lost their lives or limb working under the most hostile and stressful conditions are paying the price of political mismanagement. What began as a simple protest against the killing by the state police of an innocent schoolboy, Tufail Mattoo, and an expression of disenchantment with a regime which had failed to live up to the hopes placed on it by the people just 20 months ago, has now turned into an overwhelming anti India upsurge because of the indifference of the Centre and its desire to defend and endorse a regime marked by insensitivity, aloofness and arrogance. What should have been dealt with as a normal, legitimate expression of popular discontent has through sheer political and administrative mismanagement given new life to the call for separation from India. What the separatists and ISI trained terrorists failed to achieve in 20 years has been delivered to them on a platter by 20 months of misrule. The only face of the Indian State now visible to the Kashmiri people is one of repression, violence and brutality. The cry for ‘Azadi ‘, as yet a plaintive appeal for freedom from this life of fear, may rapidly burgeon into an irretrievable movement for secession. The situation is worse than it has been ever before, and worse than in any other part of the country, including those areas that harbour secessionist desires. We ignore it at great peril. In such an explosive situation, the Kashmiri people’s sense of isolation worsens the problem. There is a widespread perception that no one else in India seems to care about the living hell they face everyday - a life dominated by guns and bullets, and the graveyard. There are no protest marches or candlelight vigils for them. They feel they are alone in their suffering and that Indian democracy or Indian Civil society does not care to offer to them any gesture of support or solace. It is time that we, as citizens of India, show that we stand by the people of Jammu and Kashmir in their hour of grief; that they are an inseparable part of the unique tapestry of diversity and plurality that is India, and that - ‘We Care’. We need to demonstrate visibly that, citizen-to-citizen, people to people, we want to understand what is going through their hearts and minds, create a conducive and convivial environment for them to communicate their feelings and legitimate aspirations. Our failure to build bridges of understanding will only lead to further communalization, brutalization and the militarization of state and civil society in Jammu and Kashmir.We appeal to all of you, as concerned citizens to join us in our efforts to prevent this from happenning..We also appeal to you to sign the attached Resolution as a gesture of your support. We look forward to your presence on September 3, 2010 at 5.30 p.m. outside 24 Akbar Road and at 7 p.m. at Central Park, Connaught Place (not India Gate).   Madhu Kishwar (Professor, CSDS), Amitabha Pande (IAS Retd, Former Secretary Govt of India), Major General (retd.) Lakhwinder Singh, Sanjay Tikkoo ( Kashmiri Pandit Sangharsh Samiti), Mohammad Yaseen (social activist, Srinagar), Wahidur Rehman (Himalyan Broadcasting Network, Pulwama), Imtiyaz Ahmed Bazaz ( freelance journalist, Kashmir). On Behalf of MANUSHI--Citizens First Forum ------------------------------------------------------------- RESOLUTION We, the signatories to this resolution, wish to convey our deep concern over the worsening situation in Jammu and Kashmir and offer our sincere condolence to the families of those who have lost their dear ones in the ongoing spiral of violence in J&K. We mourn the untimely death of all the men, women and children as well as security personnel who have become victims of needless violence--a violence which is the consequence of gross political mismanagement on the one hand and the pursuit of divisive political agendas on the other. We wish to convey that we stand by our brothers and sisters in Jammu and Kashmir in this their hour of grief. We believe that they are an inseparable part of the unique human tapestry of diversity and plurality that is India and we want to say as Indians that “We Care”.   We resolve that as citizens we will do all that we can to create a conducive and convivial environment for restoration of normalcy in their tragically disrupted lives. We also pledge to build bridges of understanding to prevent the communalization, brutalization and militarization of state and civil society in J&K.   We wish to reach out to join hands with the people of J&K to find ways of seeking a permanent solution to the prolonged conflict in the region through the peaceful and constructive engagement of all the stakeholders.   Name................................Institutional Affiliation.....................Phone Number From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 21:36:07 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 21:36:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Inder Salim wrote: > > What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? > Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little > over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English > and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you > already know. I just put it there for reference. > He accepts most of phenomenology. His view is that: Technology will get more complicated and less comprehensible in future for most people. It is this technology that will determine their general awareness. So they will have the same disposition to 'reality' as ghosts are supposed to have. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Sep 2 02:01:16 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 02:01:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Express solidarity with the people of Kashmir In-Reply-To: <87995.9991.qm@web112618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <87995.9991.qm@web112618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <531DD9E4-2C76-4FF5-9FA0-D6F8F3507988@sarai.net> Dear All, The petition forwarded by Mr.Aima says - > We resolve that as citizens we will do all that we can to create a > conducive and convivial environment for restoration of normalcy in > their tragically disrupted lives. > We also pledge to build bridges of understanding to prevent the > communalization, brutalization and militarization of state and > civil society in J&K. How can this be done without removing, for instance,even at a bare minimum, the obscenity of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act? I read the petition very carefully, and did not find a single concrete, or specific demand, such as the scrapping of the aforementioned AFSPA - a demand well within, even, the "framework of the Indian constitution", that a lot of people go on and on about. In the absence of even such minimal specificities, I can only say that this petition, and those who have moved it, are prime examples of what it means to be really patronizing. This is the kind of 'Care' that smothers you just as effectively as a really wet blanket, that mimics the language of dissent, only to actually erase it. With sympathizers like these, who needs enemies? Keep your candles, give me a stone. best Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 10:30:11 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:30:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Voices for non-violent soultion Message-ID: Kashmiri Voices: Activist Khurrum Pervez advocates a non violent resolution to Kashmir By Dheera Sujan Created 1 September 2010 15:23 In June 2010, the police shooting of 17 year old medical student, Tufail Ahmed Mattoo in Srinagar sparked off mass protests around the state. The police have responded with violence and with the imposition of curfews. Since then, Kashmir has virtually shut down and it seems to be at an impasse. Is this a turning point for the region? Where does Kashmir go from here? Is anyone listening to Kashmiris? South Asia Wired asked a few Kashmiris to share their thoughts on the current crisis: Khurrum Pervez is a human rights activist and co-founder of the Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society. He lost his grandfather (shot by Indian forces during a peaceful demonstration), a close friend, and his own leg (in a landmine planted by militants) during the years of conflict, but continues to advocate a non violent resolution to Kashmir. Kashmir is not a part of India If the whole world calls it ³Indian controlled Kashmir² ­ how can you indict everyone who says that Kashmir is not part of India? But the Indian forces arrest Kashmiris for saying that ­ they¹re arrested under the PSA, the Public Security Act which means they can be kept without a trial for two years ­ just for saying that Kashmir isn¹t part of India. Yet, until 1951, Kashmiri had its own Prime Minister, it¹s own Parliament and its own flag? Security Forces The Indian government is on record saying there are not more than 1000 militants still active in Kashmir ­ so why do we need 667,000 troops here? They¹re here to control the lives of ordinary people, and not just fight armed militants. You can¹t blame the ordinary soldier who¹s shot someone ­ he¹s been sent here to do it. It¹s no use punishing him. It¹s about the structures of governance, the mindset of India in Kashmir continues to be militaristic ­ that¹s what has to change. India has to think of Kashmir politically ­ until now, its been thinking of it militaristically. Frankly, India has just overused its strongest weapon ­ force. And in so doing, they¹ve empowered Kashmiris to overcome their fear. Why India Won¹t let Kashmir go For the ordinary Indian, it¹s the Hindutva mindset that is responsible for their tight grip on this land. They believe that Kashmir is theirs since Vedic times. And even though there are other voices in the Indian media, amongst the intellectuals and opinion makers, they¹ll never be able to change this majority Hindu mindset. Kashmiris, the Young Generation Kashmir has changed since 1947, even since 1989. In the 90¹s it was militant and the Indians used that to build up their own military here. They¹re still using it. But things have changed here ­ a turning point came in 2008 - in August 2008, we had a couple of million people turning out for a single march. The boys now don¹t want to join the militants. Education has helped. Kashmiri boys on the street are reading Foucault, Martin Luther, about the Palestinian intifada, about Northern Ireland. They¹re trying to equip themselves with knowledge whereas in 1989 they wanted to equip themselves with guns. The mood on the street here is changing but India has not changed its attitude towards Kashmiris ­ India refuses to see that the earlier militancy has died down and been replaced by a peaceful movement. Are the demonstrations peaceful? Civil society groups have been working hard to keep them peaceful, to advocate non violence. Our argument is that because we are weaker, we can¹t afford to use violence because a bigger violence will be turned against us. We can¹t outfight the Indian war machinery. If Pakistan couldn¹t do it, how could we? Most of the demonstrations start off as peaceful but when the police fire into the crowds, they become violent. (Syed) Geelani (separatist leader from the Hurriyat Conference) has asked the people to refrain from violence. You have boys throwing stones sure, but the police reply with bullets. And now what you¹re seeing is the image of boys and young men going right up to armed police and tearing off their shirts, yelling ³shoot me, shoot.² And the police can¹t do it. I¹ve seen it myself, policemen crying when they¹re confronted with that ­ they can¹t do it. The J&K police are from here after all, our people. Who is leading the current wave of protests? What¹s been happening here since June (massive state wide protests sparked by the police shooting of 17 year old medical student Tufail Ahmed Mattoo) is a continuation of the demonstrations of 2008. It¹s not that local leaders are pushing the people, but the other way around. In fact, some of the leaders call for a respite of the protests ­ just to give people a break from it all ­ but the people won¹t have it. The people are pushing the leaders now to be more hardline. Omar Abdullah (scion of Kashmir¹s ruling family, who won a landslide victory in elections which saw him become Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir) He may have had the support of a majority of Kashmiris in 2008, but he¹s lost it now. The people feel he¹s not much more than a puppet of the central Indian government. Just recently, he was going to a hospital to visit some of the victims of the violence, and it was only 12 kilometres from his home but he had to have a helicopter take him there because he didn¹t feel safe on the streets. And then in the hospital a woman lunged at him and screamed ³your sons should die, it¹s the only way you¹ll understand.² And though she was pulled off by his security people, all the doctors and patients in the ward started applauding. It wasn¹t reported in the Indian media, and this kind of thing would have been unthinkable even a few years ago, but this is the extent to which the tide has turned against him. He promised to solve the Kashmir dispute, to get Kashmiri voices heard in Parliament and he hasn¹t done it. How do you Solve Kashmir¹s problems? They are here (he puts his hands in a strangling motion on his neck), and you¹re asking me what should we do? India has to loosen its stranglehold before we can even begin speaking. From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Thu Sep 2 11:35:27 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (SoundLAB) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 08:05:27 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?SoundLAB_VII_-_soundCELEBRATION?= Message-ID: <20100902080527.8455B1A3.72650834@192.168.0.3> SoundLAB Cologne & NewMediaFest'2010 proudly launch on 2 September 2010 SoundLAB VI - soundCELEBRATION http://soundlab.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=234 as the feature of the Month September 2010 - the online showcase of soundart celebrating the 10th anniversary of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne - 2001-2010. Many of the inspiring sound compositions were especially created for this special occasion resulting the hightlight of all seven (7) editions of SoundLAB released during the past seven years. Chief curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne, the creator of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne, SoundLAB was including curatorial contributions from Australia, Canada, Chile, Germany, South Africa and Spain - pointing to the special relevance of soundart as an aspect of digital art. SoundLAB VII - soundCELERBRATION includes more than 100 sound compositions by artists from 26 countries, as they are listed here---> adern X (Italy), Alessandro De Caro (Italy), Anvil and Stirrup (aka Antti Sakari Saario and Iain Armstrong) Mario Asef (Argentina, Stephen Ausherman (USA, Dean Bagar (Croatia) Tautvydas Bajarkevicius (Lithuania), Gaia Bartolini (Italy) Adam Basanta (Canada, Gennaro Becchimanzi(Italy) Vincent Bergeron (F), Marcus Beuter (Ger), Manuella Blackburn (UK) Jason Bolte (USA), Brigid Burke (Aus), Guiseppe Cantelmo (Italy) Eduardo Paz Carlson (Uruguay), Ivan Carreno (ES), CAYCEPOLLARD (Brazil) Hunter Cole (USA), José Collazo Méndez (ES), Jay Critchley (USA) Bartira de Sena e Souza (UK), Paul Devens (NL), Craig Dongoski (USA) Marcin Dopieralski (PL), Matthew Dotson (USA), Dario Elia (Italy) Jeanne Fremaux (CR), Satoshi Fukushima (Japan), Matt Griffin (USA) Peter Gyselinck (B), Scott Hall (USA), Le Tuan Hung (Vietnam) Brenda Hutchinson (USA), Yuichi Ito (Japan), Edorta Izarzugaza Barrena (ES) Paul Jamrozy (USA), Stefan Jürke (Ger), Timo Kahlen (Ger) Sybill Kalff (Ger), Lionel Kaplan (AR), Koji Kawai (Japan) Lewis Kaye (USA), Jerry King Musser (USA), Andras Kiss (HU) Piphos Kollias (GR), Pavel Kopecki (CZ), Tilman Künzel (Ger) Marco Lampis (Italy), Dario Lazaretto (Italy), Philipp Andrew Lewis (USA) Signe Liden (NO), Owen Lloyd (USA), Edwin Lo (Hongkong) Jesus Lopez (Venezuela), Malcom Litson (UK), Wittwulf Y Malik (Ger) Philip Mantione (USA), Jabier Martínez (ES), Luigi Mastandrea (Italy) Miguel Maters (NL), Natalie McQuade (Aus), Wolfgang Menzel (SW) Johnny Milner (USA), Mondual (Turkey), David Mooney (USA) Alexander Mouton (USA), Luke Munn (NZ), Meri Nikula (Finland) Michael James Olson (USA), Ufuk Onen (Turkey), Ed Osborn (USA) Cesary Ostrowski (PL), Carl Palme (Ger), Rebekkah Palov (USA) Stephano Pasquini (Italy), Alberto Picciau (Italy), Per Platou (NO) Rudi Punzo (Italy), Sol Rezza (MX), Ann Rosen (SWE) Benjamin Rossignol (USA), Antonio Sassu (Italy), Günther Schlienz (Ger) Alexander Schubert (Ger), Ashley Scott (Aus) Johannes Sistermans (Ger), Matthew Sochocki (USA), Sarah Soriano (USA) Yolando Spinola (ES), Bijing Zhang (China), Morgan Stary (USA) Katrin Stumreich (A), Debra Swack (USA), Justin Thompson (USA) Zoltan Tonka (HU), John Transue (USA), Antonia Valero (ES) Hsiao-Lan Wang (Taiwan), Wonderfeel (Aus), Adrian Zalewski (PL) Thanks to all for sharing seven wonderful years! Enter - SoundLAB VII - soundCELEBRATION - directly http://soundlab.newmediafest.org/e7/index.html ------------------------------------------------- SoundLAB - sonic arts http://soundlab.newmediafest.org NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org soundlab (at) newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------------ From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 12:22:45 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 12:22:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Birth Day of Lord Krishna Message-ID: please click to see image http://www.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0C0lsBVYlm8/SoWvfwXAUvI/AAAAAAAABpg/tR7sFOfPO8A/S230/Muslim%2Bmom%2Bkrishna%2Bchild.jpg&imgrefurl=http://kanchangupta.blogspot.com/2010/02/islams-stockpile-of-human-bombs.html&usg=__MO5I9E2dcHr0WcG9uK3phCuW_Ao=&h=230&w=153&sz=14&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=VSrgftfMYIoDEM:&tbnh=155&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Da%2Bmuslim%2Bwoman%2Bcarries%2Bher%2Bson%2Bdressed%2Bas%2Blord%2Bkrishna%2Bin%2Bbihar%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D612%26tbs%3Disch:11%2C0&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=132&vpy=91&dur=71&hovh=184&hovw=122&tx=89&ty=98&ei=nkd_TKaNEZHevQPx94iEBA&oei=g0d_TILVLIv-vQO-8L2CBA&esq=3&page=1&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&biw=1024&bih=612 -- From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 12:54:49 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 12:54:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] In one fell swoop Message-ID: PAKISTAN Pakistan jets target militant hide-outs, 60 killed Wednesday, 01 Sep, 2010 | 06:47 PM PST | PESHAWAR: Pakistan army jets and helicopters targeted militant hide-outs near the Afghan border, killing 60 people identified as insurgents or their family members, including children, security officials and a witness said Wednesday. The deadliest strikes hit an area where army fire had killed 60 civilians earlier this year. Accounts of civilian casualties in army airstrikes make it harder for the military to win the support of local tribesman in the border region, something crucial to flushing out Al-Qaeda and Taliban militants who have found sanctuary there. The attacks occurred Tuesday and Wednesday in different parts of the region. There was no independent confirmation of the casualty figures because the area is too dangerous for outsiders to visit. The raids Tuesday took place in several villages in Teerah Valley in the Khyber region and killed 45 people, the officials said. One official said some vehicles rigged with explosives had also been destroyed. He could not say how many. He described the dead as insurgents, but said it was possible that people living with them could also have been killed. Separately, an intelligence officer said some women and children had been killed in the attacks. Jihad Gul, who lives near one of the villages, said he had seen the bodies of at least 20 women and children. Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said reports of civilian casualties were unconfirmed. The security officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media. An air attack Wednesday in the adjoining district of Orakzai killed 15 suspected militants and wounded 10 others, according to local government official Jamil Khan and a brief army statement. In April, the Teerah Valley was hit by army airstrikes that killed about 60 civilians. The army, which initially described the victims as insurgents, ended up paying compensation to the victims¹ families and its chief issued a rare public apology. Pakistan¹s army has been fighting militants in different parts of the northwest for more than two years. Militants who fled major operations in the South Waziristan and Orakzai tribal regions are believed to have set up new bases in Khyber, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) northwest of the main city in the region, Peshawar. ­ AP http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/ 21-pakistan-jets-target-militant-hide-outs-60-killed-sk-03 Copyright © 2010 - Dawn Media Group From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 12:55:46 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 12:55:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Mani Cant see the colour of light in the future generation, right now, but, here is an image which i took yesterday evening near the Metro in Delhi http://indersalim.livejournal.com/ with love' is On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:36 PM, A. Mani wrote: > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Inder Salim wrote: >> >> What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? >> Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little >> over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English >> and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you >> already know. I just put it there for reference. >> > > He accepts most of phenomenology. His view is that: > Technology will get more complicated and less comprehensible in future > for most people. > It is this technology that will determine their general awareness. > So they will have the same disposition to 'reality' as ghosts are > supposed to have. > > Best > > A. Mani > > > > -- > A. Mani > ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS > http://www.logicamani.co.cc > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 12:55:46 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 12:55:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Future Belongs to Ghosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Mani Cant see the colour of light in the future generation, right now, but, here is an image which i took yesterday evening near the Metro in Delhi http://indersalim.livejournal.com/ with love' is On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:36 PM, A. Mani wrote: > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Inder Salim wrote: >> >> What does Derrida mean when he says "The future belongs to ghosts"? >> Here's an excerpt of him talking about what it means, but its a little >> over my head. Can someone tell me what he's saying in plain English >> and what his main point is? You don't have to read this thing if you >> already know. I just put it there for reference. >> > > He accepts most of phenomenology. His view is that: > Technology will get more complicated and less comprehensible in future > for most people. > It is this technology that will determine their general awareness. > So they will have the same disposition to 'reality' as ghosts are > supposed to have. > > Best > > A. Mani > > > > -- > A. Mani > ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS > http://www.logicamani.co.cc > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kaksanjay at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 22:00:53 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 22:00:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul Message-ID: One of the exciting developments of this summer has been the explosion of writing on Kashmir: along with the stones, we have been showered with new voices. In place of the conditioned blather that we in India have grown up with, there is a wide range of new positions and approaches. I'm posting this excellent piece by Nitasha Kaul, writer (and economist). Since its long, I'm prefacing it with two excerpts. Just to whet your appetite... Best Sanjay Kak ------------------------------ "Kashmir is not an ‘integral’ part of India. It is a disputed integral, in fact, as I have argued, the Indian attitude to Kashmir can only be understood in the wider context of the failed political, economic, and social promises of post-colonial India. In the name of ‘national integration’, India is occupying a region against the will of the people who live there. Kashmir is ‘integral’ only to the life of Kashmiris.... ------------------------------- "The demand of the Kashmiri people is ‘Azaadi’. Freedom. Freedom to be themselves, to choose their national destiny. We are not Indians. We are Kashmiris. We have a history, a language, a culture that demands recognition. Instead of recognising this gut-wrenching, existential cry of the Kashmiri people, the Indian state sends in more guns, more troops, more rolls of barbed wire, more bribes, more bullets. When this does not work and the Kashmiris scream ‘Go India Go’, they send in a battery of words – Development, Employment, Infrastructure, Laws, Training, Security, Curfew. The big words fall flat and disappear without trace between the folds of the pheran, in the wrinkles on the face, on the marks on the graves, and in the flow of Kashmiri blood. Here’s a valid question to ask Indian political leaders, bureaucrats, army chiefs, right-wing extremists, the ignorant layperson: Are you blind? Can you not see that we want a recognition of our identity as a people? Burn your Bollywood movies. Come to Kashmir. Walk through our cities. The bridges. The ruins. The graves. Look at what we eat. Look at our buildings. Our shrines. Our architecture. Our speech. Our history. Speak to us. See how we live. We are not you. We have never been you. We don’t want to be you." ------------------------------ http://www.opendemocracy.net/nitasha-kaul/kashmir-from-contact-zone-to-conflict-zone#comment-535383 Kashmir: a place of blood and memory Nitasha Kaul, 31 August 2010 In attempting to suffocate a separate Kashmiri identity, India reveals the cracks in its own idea of nationhood, argues Nitasha Kaul. About the author Dr Nitasha Kaul is an economist and a writer. When you try to locate the territory of Kashmir on a world map, you will find it partitioned into Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK, called ‘Azaad Kashmir’ and ‘Northern Areas’, in Pakistan), India Occupied Kashmir (IOK, called ‘Jammu and Kashmir’ including ‘Ladakh’, in India), and areas such as Aksai Chin and Shaksam Valley under Chinese control (part of ‘Xinjiang autonomous region’ in China).Partitioned Kashmir, courtesy of Wikimedia Yet, even as it is devoured by the big states that surround it, Kashmir cannot be understood through the simplistic framing of ‘India versus Pakistan’, ‘Hindu versus Muslim’, or ‘China allied with Pakistan versus India’. Instead, see Kashmir as a vital link in the Himalayan mountain chain; a historic part of the Silk Route, that is now a violent battleground. Why? Because people in none of these three regions identify themselves as primarily and ‘above all’ Pakistani, Indian, or Chinese. Neither should they be forced to. Cartography might lie, but topography and cultural geography does not. Kashmir is not India. Kashmir is not Pakistan. Kashmir is not China. Kashmir is the boundary zone of India-China-Pakistan. But it is distinctively Kashmir. And its people – whatever their religion or national identity – are Kashmiris. In the guise of crude nationalist narratives peddled by the surrounding post-colonial states for internal politicking and international leverage, their history is being stolen from the Kashmiri people. Wherever in Kashmir they are, their options boil down to bullets or ballots – bullets if they protest being co-opted into the big country which is not their homeland, and ballots if they agree to being co-opted into the big country which is not their homeland. How can a Kashmiri live under this perpetual erasure of his or her identity? The same way that every colonised people has survived through the ages: by interpretation and by insurrection. Interpretations enable a re-understanding of the identity choices available to a person, and insurrections allow a collectivity to challenge unjust dominance by force. In the last years, regions of the POK saw nationalist Kashmiri protests against Pakistan (for example, in Muzzafarabad in December 2009), and, at the moment, nationalist Kashmiris in IOK are witnessing a harsh repression at the hands of Indian security forces; on average a person a day has been killed in the last two months since June 2010, nearly half of them have been teenagers (my focus is IOK, in particular the ongoing brutality in the Kashmir Valley, and the various erasures of blood and memory that surround it). Some in IOK give rallying cries in support of POK (‘Muzzafarabad Chalo’), and in turn others in POK warn that they will cross over to ‘help their brothers in IOK’. Moreover, even during periods of so-called ‘normalcy’, people in both POK (some being Shia ethnic minority in Sunni-majority areas) and in IOK (being a Muslim majority region in a Hindu-majority India) often live with severe restrictions on their freedom and face multiple levels of discrimination. No wonder Kashmiris who live under occupation feel a solidarity for their kind across the boundary lines. The story of the mountain-peoples of Eurasia is, by and large, a tragedy. Run your index finger on the multi-coloured land surface of a modern day political world map, and you will see how many ‘problem areas’ (some states, some sub-state entities, some overlapping zones of displaced peoples) – Tibet, Kashmir, North Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – were thriving zones of contact between diverse communities that traded goods and exchanged ideas along the arteries of the ‘Silk Route’. Like many of these other places, Kashmir, a Himalayan zone of contact between diverse peoples in history, has become a zone of conflict, due in large measure to modern boundary-making processes which evolved to accommodate economic privileges and political trade-offs with rivals that were necessary for European (especially British) colonisation of the region. Genesis of the ‘Mandarin-Machiavelli interaction’ Empires of the ancient world had a fluid notion of boundaries. In parts of the Himalayas especially, there were multiple systems of power transmission – these ranged from marriages to tributes to reincarnations. The idea of people owing an overarching allegiance to a national identity (over religious, ethnic or other forms of affiliation) is a relatively modern construct. The British Empire in south Asia was nitpicky and dissonant, it was an empire run by a democracy, that expanded by median diplomacy, strategic but grounded thinking, conceptual reconstruction, and accounting, as much as it did by force. Unlike the earlier rulers who came from central Asia, the British operated primarily on the dual bases of economic rationality and assumed moral superiority. They often drew lines on maps opportunistically, and in time, these ‘boundaries’ would get transformed into ‘frontiers’. In the case of the Himalayan mountains, the British never saw much advantage in direct control (they calculated that the administrative, policing, transportation costs were too high and the returns not worthwhile when compared to the fertile and bustling plains) and preferred, instead, to follow a stated policy of “controlling the hills from the plains”. In order to do this, the administration at the centre needed to depend on local elites in the peripheral regions. So, the system was set up during colonial times – the bureaucrats at the centre would be the administrators and policy makers and they would cultivate local aristocratic, political and business elites in the peripheral regions. Often, they would patronise rival elites in a peripheral region and ‘activate’ their influence as and when required. In the middle of the twentieth century when the British formally left, the post-colonial Asian states inherited this mindset and this system of governance. To this day, the Indian state manages its peripheries in this way. Both Kashmir and the ‘North-East’ are examples. Why does this matter? Because it sets up structures of power and responsibility that do not overlap meaningfully. The bureaucrats and politicians at the centre do not have direct interaction with the regions; their interest is only to have a ‘reliable’ power base in the periphery. Equally, the local elites in the periphery exaggerate reports of their influence over ‘their’ people in order to gain maximum advantage from the centre. This pattern of (what I would call) Mandarin-Machiavelli interaction has characterised the relationship of India with Kashmir (or rather of New Delhi with Srinagar). Neither the centre nor the periphery has any interest in being genuinely concerned about the people in whose name they wield power and exercise authority. What is more, in such a scenario, there is enormous potential of corruption as long as it doesn’t harm the ruling interests of both ends of the chain, and any dissent will only be tolerated if it can be channeled for political gains. Otherwise, those dissenting or seeking change will be punished and brutalised. This is exactly what is happening in IOK today. Kashmir as India’s disputed ‘integral' IOK (‘India occupied Kashmir’, called ‘Jammu and Kashmir’, including ‘Ladakh’, in India) has never been an indisputable part of India. Paradoxically, presenting this historical fact invariably causes most Indians to assert even more vigorously that Kashmir is an ‘integral’ part of India. Why? Why is Kashmir so fundamental to the Indian psyche? The average Indian insists that Kashmir is an indisputable part of India to be held by force when necessary in the same way that the Indian state insists that Kashmir is an ‘integral’ part of India while occupying it by military means. Indians and the Indian state find it necessary to repeatedly state this because they know that Kashmir is not actually an indisputable part of India and this galls them. It is no coincidence that Kashmir and the North-East were two of the least involved regions during the nationalist freedom struggle which led to India’s independence, and it is these regions which have remained least understood in the mainstream nationalist imagination. In Kashmir, for example, in the 1930s and 1940s, it was the Kashmiri Nationalists (led by Sheikh Abdullah) and the Kashmiri Communists (both Hindu and Muslim) who shaped the pre-1947 political landscape by their opposition to princely rule (of the unrepresentative Dogra monarch); integration with India was an ‘unintended consequence’ of their progressivist leanings. With time, their faith in India was rudely jolted – independent India came to fear two things most – Muslims and communists (Kashmir had both). This way Kashmir is viewed in the mainstream Indian imagination is linked to the wider evolution of Indian self-perception in the decades after independence and more specifically to the quantum shift in the political and economic structure of Indian society in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The Indian nation that had been born (from a partition) with idealistic anti-colonial promises saw its first national event in the assassination of its biggest moral voice – Mahatma Gandhi – at the hands of a Hindu fanatical extremist. The successive decades saw an undoing of the social, political, economic, and moral ideals which had motivated the people in their anti-colonial independence struggle. The two biggest, and significantly reactionary, transformations that India has seen since its independence became most visible in the late 1980s and early 1990s – the rise of economic and religious fundamentalism – neo-liberalism and Hindutva. From the late 1940s to late 1980s (with the exception of the rather telling ‘Emergency period’ and its aftermath), electoral politics in India was dominated by the traditional elites. Within such a system, there was a continued ‘capture’ of the Indian state by the privileged, the only route into the political imagination left for others was through asserting ‘identity politics’ (especially caste-based identities, as in the case of the BSP or Bahujan Samaj party, and the Mayawati – their leader – phenomenon). The founding myth of the post-colonial Indian state was that of a ‘sovereign democratic republic’ (original preamble to the Indian constitution) and it was later amended to become, ‘sovereign socialist secular democratic republic’. The same amendment (the 42nd amendment to the Indian Constitution in 1976) that added the words ‘socialist’ and ‘secular’, also inserted the word ‘integrity’ in addition to the ‘unity’ originally mentioned; the changed preamble went from ‘unity of the nation’ to ‘unity and integrity of the nation’. It is of crucial importance that the labels confirming India as ‘socialist’ and ‘secular’, and the pledge for ‘integrity’ came about in 1976 during the Emergency era (1975-1977) which witnessed a general curtailment of the freedoms of most ordinary Indians, especially those such as religious minorities and the economically deprived. In other words, by the 1970s, India’s founding myths were already severely challenged, and therefore needed to be proclaimed as an exercise in self-justification. There was discrimination against religious minorities (for example, as an unstated rule, Muslims were never placed in ‘sensitive’ government positions – not that this has gone away – click here for a recent report that state-run banks in India routinely turn away Muslims), hence India needed to call itself ‘secular’. There was growing inequality and continued widespread poverty, hence India needed to call itself ‘socialist’. There was justified alienation in various parts of the country due to ignorance and corrupt misgovernance enabled by the Mandarin-Machiavelli relations (and the ‘integrity’ of India’s neighbour Pakistan had been challenged with the creation of Bangladesh in 1971), hence India’s ‘integrity’ needed to be affirmed. >From 1947 onwards, post-colonial India saw itself as an inheritor of the British imperial mantle in the region. Indian leadership, while aware of the negative legacies of the empire, also inherited its realpolitik attitudes, which were made worse by a euphoria of emergent nationalism and self-righteousness. The regime had changed but the processes had simply replaced foreign elites with a home-grown indigenous elite (for example, a significant number of rulers from the erstwhile princely states were appointed as bureaucrats, ambassadors, policy-makers). Add to which there was the personality cult of Nehru whose personal friendships, affiliations, and dispositions could brook little opposition and loomed large on the decision-making processes in a democratic state. In the subsequent decades, notwithstanding the official non-aligned third-worldist stance, India’s political priorities – national and international – were shaped by its close relations with the old and new imperial powers. An entrenched (often English-speaking, Brahminical, Hindu) elite thrived domestically, India began to be seen as a regional hegemon, relations with neighbours (China, Pakistan) rapidly deteriorated, and electoral politics became a game of patronage. In the years following independence, India refused to negotiate with China on the boundary issue (while simultaneously following a less-than-pragmatic policy on Tibet), pursued an ill-advised ‘forward policy’ in NEFA (North East Frontier Areas), and Nehru – a Kashmiri himself and fond of Kashmir; Kashmir was special – promised Kashmiris a plebiscite to determine their future. In the middle of the twentieth century, my grandfather, then a young man, stood among the crowd at Lal Chowk in the centre of Srinagar (capital of IOK) listening to the Indian Prime Minister Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru make a rousing speech to the people of Kashmir - ‘Kashmir ke log koi bhhed-bakri nahin hain ki hamne kaha yahaan chalo ya wahaan chalo’ (the people of Kashmir can’t be led like goat or sheep in one direction or the other) – in which he promised them a choice to determine their identity, specifically a plebiscite to determine their own future. In later years, my grandfather would often recall those words of Nehru apologetically (recently he passed away and I went again to Srinagar to mourn for him in his birthplace, the land of my lost memories). This Nehruvian promise came to naught as India’s stance on Kashmir became ever more legalistic. As for India’s claim that Kashmir is ‘integral’ to India to confirm its secular credentials (being the only Muslim majority state in a Hindu majority India): what an irony, since India’s secular credentials (being an afterthought as the ‘Emergency’ time amendment shows) were not ‘integral’ to the Indian state at its founding! Internationally, the Indian state has thrived by trading on its publicised self-image as democratic, secular, and peaceful. The comparison has always been with neighbours like China and Pakistan - one communist, the other theocratic (to the wider western world, nothing could be worse than someone who is a ‘Commie’ or ‘Islamic’). The world at large has been fooled for too long by the articulate, if not argumentative, Indian upper-class governmental and corporate elite and their publicity machines. So successful is this illusion about India, that the world media consistently under-reports the Indian state’s brutality when it comes to Naxalites, the ‘North East’ (the only part of the country which is referred to by geographical co-ordinates; a telling synecdochic use of the generic term ‘north east’ to refer to one or all of the seven different states together), and always, Kashmir. India is demographically a Hindu majority state, and for all its talk of ‘unity in diversity’, it is intolerant towards its minorities. That discrimination and intolerance flourishes in Pakistan or China or the West is no justification for ignoring this fact in India. For instance, there is a violent ongoing repression of the tribals, there is recurrent and extreme state brutality in Kashmir, there have been orchestrated pogroms against the Muslims (Gujarat 2002), violence against the Sikhs (Delhi 1984), the Christians (Orissa 2007-08), add to which, there is a constant ongoing broad-ranging discrimination against people in terms of their religion, caste, class, gender, sexuality. Of course, India is democratic, secular, and peaceful, except when it needs to suppress those that don’t look like mainstream Indians (the Hindus) - these ‘others’ include its tribal and indigenous people, ‘lower’ castes, its minorities, its ‘north eastern’ peoples (ethnically different, they are derisively referred to as ‘Chinks’, often confused for Chinese in the main metropolises, and seen as different and separate), and Muslims. The people who fit India’s self-narrative best are affluent Hindus. Today, India wishes to be recognised as a ‘superpower-in-waiting’, yet like other superpowers (to wit, the USA) it is rotting from within. After the end of the Cold War, both the blatant privatisation (euphemistically called ‘liberalisation’) of the Indian economy, and the overt ‘Hinduisation’ of Indian polity (rise of right-wing parties like the BJP) came to full flowering in the 1990s; together this created an intolerant and unholy consensus in the arenas of politics and economics. Today, both the main national parties – Congress and BJP – converge on the ‘free-market’ economic fundamentals and the political space is given over to divisive ‘vote-bank’ driven identity politics. Over time, this has resulted in greater inequality, more deprivation, and a disenfranchisement of large sections of the country, but it has been politically profitable for those who instigated these changes. The Hinduising, reactionary BJP came to power spreading its message of bigotry, and the Congress leader with a carefully maintained image who engineered the neoliberal restructuring of the country (as the finance minister) in the early 1990s, is the prime minister of the country today. In his recent remarks, he (bizarrely) used the public reaction to his budget in 1991 as a counter to the criticism of his Nuclear Bill in 2010. In so many regions and in so many ways, the project and vision of postcolonial India is coming apart at the seams. The same-old routine use of the narrative of ‘national integration’ and ‘outside infiltration’ (Pakistani trained terrorists in Kashmir, China-trained Maoists in Eastern India) cannot inoculate a country that is failing its people economically, politically and socially. The Indian political class is superbly corrupt. Entry into politics is seen as a route for upward class mobility by enabling wealth accumulation; generally only the sons and scions of those with pre-existing political connexions rise through the ranks, unless one is a goon with a criminal record! Indian bureaucracy has a reputation for being tremendously arrogant. It is a truism that Indian bureaucrats are generally smug and supercilious, unwilling to learn or exchange ideas from any but the most hawkish and pro-establishment intellectuals. The large swathes of Indian middle classes are stuffed with intolerance, unthinking mass entertainment, and over consumption – fed by a corporatised media that ‘manufactures consent’ in a textbook Chomsky way. The mix of ignorance and blustery self-confidence that one encounters in middle-class Indians rivals Americans (they share this ‘superpower’ trait!). All of the above – a corrupt political class, a smug bureaucracy, an unthinking and avidly consuming middle class – makes India a wonderful ‘market’ globally. This is the reason why the world keeps silent when the Indian state commits or abets violent atrocities, both inside its boundaries and outside. In such an environment, proper political consciousness is rare. Indian people are fed the ‘national integration’ mantra and they lap it up, unable to perceive the way in which people such as the Kashmiris are being dehumanised. The average middle-class Indian (who grows up learning in history and geography books at school about everywhere in the world except for the countries that are India’s neighbours) is intolerant of Pakistan, suspicious of China, unwilling to commingle with Muslims or ‘lower castes’, and willfully blind to the poverty that surrounds them – s/he is focused on making money, spending money, and occasionally, redemption through self-help. Kashmir is a distant nightmare for them. Indian politicians ultimately don’t care for Kashmir. When the situation looks extremely grim, as now, they make a few statements, a few changes happen at the state level, a few lies are spun, and some schemes are floated to keep public opinion on board. The leadership is, by turns and at different levels, dull, corrupt, and lacking in morals. Most importantly, the compulsions of India’s domestic politics ensure that there is no real potential for dialogue and understanding on Kashmir. The entrenched national narrative is so strong that any move forward is seized by the opposition as ‘compromise’ and ‘betrayal’. Given the circumstances, even the most measly statement made by government representatives that recognises any problem in Kashmir or questions the Hindu right-wing is challenged by the xenophobic intolerant right-wing politicians (BJP and their ilk) and exploited for political gain ( e.g. the BJP asking the Home Minister to apologise for commenting on ‘saffron terror’/Hindu right-wing extremism, and the BJP challenging the PM for his statement on autonomy for Kashmir). What is more, India’s political, military and bureaucratic interests in Kashmir are not coherently aligned, and are subject to the varying intensity and profitability of India’s strategic international alliances. The strength and honesty of political will of the Indian government on Kashmir then becomes a pawn in line with India’s interests in Afghanistan, and in turn hostage to US policy on ‘AfPak’. Finally, India’s defence sector is rapidly modernising and therefore internationally very lucrative at the moment. At the same time, there is an excessive use of force in the occupation of Kashmir. Such conflict then unleashes its own perverse incentives such as the increased expenditure on arms and debilitates the initiatives for peace. In any case, the militarisation of security in India is a dangerous development for the dehumanising violence it enables (some Indian military tactics in Kashmir are excessive even for the Israeli IDF!). Kashmir is not an ‘integral’ part of India. It is a disputed integral, in fact, as I have argued, the Indian attitude to Kashmir can only be understood in the wider context of the failed political, economic, and social promises of post-colonial India. In the name of ‘national integration’, India is occupying a region against the will of the people who live there. Kashmir is ‘integral’ only to the life of Kashmiris. The tragedy of Kashmir Having a historical legacy as a sacred site of early Himalayan Buddhism, Kashmir was a Muslim-majority state in a Hindu-majority India at the time of India's independence from the British; through most of the last millennium, it was variously ruled by central and west Asian originating Mughal-Afghan dynasties. In the nineteenth century, it was ruled by Sikhs from whom the British acquired it and sold it on to a Hindu Dogra King. As a people of the mountains who had been bartered by the British, Kashmiris were aware of the oppression they faced. The distinctive identity of Kashmir was shaped by multiple influences and rulerships. Kashmir’s history is a knot of contested interpretations made worse by ignorance. The biggest myth of recent times is that of seeing Kashmir historically in terms of Muslims versus Hindus, instead of Muslims and Hindus. Kashmiris did not see themselves in these terms until they were classified as such by the political games of the later part of the twentieth century. The centuries-old tradition of ‘Kashmiriyat’ bears testimony to the identity of Kashmiris as a people who did not let their religious affiliations overwhelm their ethnic and regional commonality. Contemporary Hindu religious extremists/activists often try to extrapolate selective facts from Kashmir’s rich history to push their communal case – citing especially the forced conversions to Islam (click here for a scholarly contradiction of this claim, notable because it is written by a Kashmiri Hindu, so it defies assumed communal viewpoint in this regard), and the 1989 exodus of Kashmiri Pandits (minority Hindus) from the Valley as having been forced by Kashmiri Muslims. Kashmiris were a people who were somehow ‘bargained’ into nationhood when the British left the region. From mid-nineteenth century onwards, the practice of statecraft and governance came to be tied closely to statistics, enumeration and classification (the first census in UK was carried out in 1800s). In the colonies too, the British tried to stabilise and centralise channels of power by classifying their subjects and dealing with them in terms of race, genetic stock, community leaders, and religion. Hindus and Muslims were two important lenses through which people were perceived, roused, and then divided during partition. In the case of Kashmir, this British formula was messed-up – the Muslims were the majority in Kashmir, but the ruler (Hari Singh) was not Muslim, Indian Prime Minister Nehru was Kashmiri Hindu but close to Sheikh Abdullah, the most prominent Kashmiri leader, a Muslim. Plus, the entire Himalayas, including Kashmir, had been constructed as a strategic geopolitical buffer in the imperial trajectory till then; the ‘Great Game’ was a kind of proto-Cold War. When India and Pakistan were being carved up, Kashmir was coveted on either side (this manic struggle over possessing Kashmir has led to multiple wars – 1947, 1965, 1999 – between India and Pakistan – both of whom use Kashmir as a propaganda pawn for their opportunistic and hypocritical purposes – and a continued boundary stalemate, including over the unpopulated Aksai-Chin area, between India and China). In so many ways, Kashmir was ‘special’. The Kashmiri political voice and consciousness was different from that of the rest of India. The Kashmiris of an earlier generation – up until the 1980s – saw themselves as ‘Kashmiris’, in spite of everything. Kashmiris as a people have historically shared language, mannerisms, speech inflections, customs and even some festivals (such as the springtime ‘Badaamwari’). Today, very little understanding of this commonality remains. Why? Because mainstream India (and Pakistan) never understood Kashmir nor cared for Kashmiri people. When Pakistan and India came into being, Kashmir was attacked by one side to obtain it by force and its unrepresentative ruler was forced by the other side to sign an ‘instrument of accession’ as a condition of providing help in repelling the attack. Where were the Kashmiri people’s aspirations accounted for in all of this? In India, they were promised self-determination but over the successive decades witnessed a tug of war between the centre and periphery during which governments in Srinagar were removed from power, puppets were installed, and elections were rigged. India saw the people of Kashmir as inherently ‘alien’ and ‘untrustworthy’, somehow always already ‘tainted’. The progressivist aspirations of Kashmir’s leaders and their openly communist leanings from the 1930s onwards did not help either when it came to the fast-polarising ideological alliances between states in the Cold War era (various other larger factors were salient in this framing also, such as the Dalai Lama’s exile to India, ZA Bhutto forging the alliance with communist China). The Communists of Kashmir had surnames that were both Hindu and Muslim. The intellectuals of Kashmir had vivid memories of pre-independence Lahore, a centre of gravity in those times. But, most people in India have never heard of Kashmir and communism together in the same sentence[1]. The currently evolving Chinese stance on Kashmir (China denied a visa in August 2010 to an Indian general posted in Kashmir) is news only to someone who doesn’t know of Sheikh Abdullah meeting Chou-en-Lai in Algiers in 1967. Those non-Kashmiri Indians who spew hateful anti-Muslim rhetoric today and claim Kashmir as an undying part of India, do they know of one festival or tradition of Kashmiri Hindus, let alone of Kashmiri Muslims? But, why speak of festivals. Ask the average Indian what happened in Kashmir in the late 1980s. Some might know about the exodus of Kashmiri Hindus from the Valley from 1989 onwards (only some, for mainstream India does not actually care for Kashmiris, either Hindu or Muslim, they care for their own existential need to control and possess Kashmir), but they are unlikely to know about the elections of 1987, by which time India was acting desperate, rigged to prevent the Kashmiri people from electing anyone but those ‘approved’ by New Delhi. Every grievance of the Kashmiri people (who are majority Muslim) was seen through the anti-national lens. Is it any surprise then that some of those Kashmiri Muslims, frustrated and pigeonholed by India for decades, actually turned to radical political Islam, given the role of the Pakistani ISI, the wider dynamics of the closing Cold War (like Muslims everywhere else, Kashmiris too were/are affected by radical political Islam, which in many parts of the world was deliberately encouraged by the West as a counter to communist ‘red’ threat), and the Afghan and central Asian scenario at the time? In the 1980s, radical Islamism rose in Kashmir. But let us not forget the figure of Jagmohan, the governor of Kashmir in the 1980s (1984-1989, again in 1990) who played a prominent (though not exclusive) role in instigating the departure of Kashmiri Hindus from the Valley. A communal right-wing Hindu who later joined the BJP, he was the representative of the centre in Muslim majority Kashmir in these turbulent years which included the 1987 election rigging[2]. Much more needs to be written about his terrible tenure in Kashmir in the 1980s. Still, as Pankaj Mishra details, “Jagmohan’s pro-Hindu policies in Kashmir, and the lack of economic opportunities for educated Muslim Kashmiris, drove many Kashmiri youth to support Islamist parties that were gaining influence in the state”. These Islamist parties were “helped by the growth of madrassas, the privately owned theology schools which were often run by Muslims from Assam in eastern India, over a thousand miles away, where mass killings of Muslims in the early Eighties had forced their migration to Kashmir”. During Jagmohan’s tenure there, the elected government of Kashmir was dismissed twice, the number of Muslims being recruited in government service went down, non-Muslims were encouraged to work in Kashmir; also he sought to impose “a peculiarly Hindu modernity” on the state, permitting unrestricted sale of alcohol but forbidding Muslims to slaughter sheep on a Hindu festival day (see Pankaj Mishra, 'The birth of a nation', The New York Review of Books). Jagmohan was removed in 1989, but reappointed in 1990 (at which the state government resigned in protest) to govern Kashmir directly under central rule and deal with the militants. In her analysis of ‘Kashmir and International Law: how war crimes fuel the conflict’, Patricia Grossman writes, “In response to widespread threats and targeted attacks and killings by militant groups, many Hindus had fled. Jagmohan’s government ultimately assisted some 90,000 Hindus in leaving the Kashmir Valley for camps in Jammu and New Delhi”. What of those Kashmiris (mostly Muslim) who remained in the Valley? Grossman documents, “In the weeks that followed, Indian army and security forces opened fire repeatedly on unarmed protesters, in some cases shooting to kill wounded prisoners. These killings constituted a serious violation of international humanitarian law. Foreign journalists were expelled from Kashmir for several months, and new laws enacted granting the security forces increased powers, limiting defendants’ rights, imposing restrictions on public gatherings, and prohibiting virtual any public expression of dissent”. Many Kashmiris (and others in India; Sanghvi, the reviewer of Jagmohan’s book – see link above – disparagingly calls them ‘secular journos’) believe that he envisaged a ‘total solution’ for Kashmir, and the reason he aided the exodus of Kashmiri Hindus was because he planned to isolate the Kashmiri Muslims from the Kashmiri Hindus and then ‘deal’ with them by violent means. In a way that has come to pass. In a more fundamental way than theocratic Islamic Pakistan could ever do with all its cross border airwave propaganda and infiltration, a democratic India with its bungling Hinduised outlook has managed to convert Kashmir into a sorry communal battleground. The proliferation of the politics of hate has meant that the rise of Hindutva in India has been mirrored by the growth of Islamism in Kashmir. The Kashmiris are alienated evermore each day. In the last two decades, the Kashmiri psyche has been surgically cleaved into Kashmiri Hindus and Kashmiri Muslims. An entire generation of Kashmiri Hindus have grown up outside Kashmir in India where they have learnt to identify themselves as ‘Hindus’ before Kashmiris, in accordance with the right-wing Hindu sentiment of mainstream India. This generation of young people is a recruiting ground for Hindu extremists for the RSS, VHP, BJP and the kind. Their justified nostalgia for their homeland is condensed into narratives of anti-Muslim hate which can be exploited for political vote gain. Equally, an entire generation of Kashmiri Muslims have grown up inside Kashmir where they have learnt to identify themselves as ‘Muslims’ before calling themselves Kashmiris in the environment of militancy and a brutal Indian military occupation who view them only as latent Islamic fundamentalists. Their justified aspirations of life and livelihood are daily denied by lack of representation and discrimination. In their imagination, Kashmiri Hindus are a traitorous pro-Indian minority, linked to the oppressive Hindu Indian majority. Often, even the Valley leaders who supposedly represent them are self-serving, corrupt, and manipulate their sentiments for political gain. This two-fold absence – Kashmiri Hindus whose memory is wiped clean of Kashmiri Muslims as being Kashmiris and who have had to strike roots outside their homeland and adapt to mainstream India, and Kashmiri Muslims who have lived under militancy and an Indian military occupation without the memory of Kashmiri Hindus being Kashmiris and who are tired of being scapegoated for machinations beyond their control – is the grafting of a virtual partition of Kashmir’s history and identity. Until the 1980s, a Kashmiri – Hindu or Muslim – might say, we the people of Kashmir, do not belong to India, we are Kashmiri. Beyond the Banihal tunnel (Jawahar tunnel) was the land of Lipton tea, not Mogul chai. India was an ‘other’ to a Kashmiri as much as a Kashmiri was an ‘other’ to an Indian. Now, a Kashmiri will, in all probability, speak in line with their location and their precise suffering will systematically depend on their experience of where they spent the last two decades – within the Valley or outside it. The sheer toll on Kashmiri people has been staggering. Over 100,000 Kashmiri Hindus left their homeland, several hundred were killed, numberless young people have grown up in refugee camps. Especially for those who were poor and from rural areas of Kashmir, it has been a journey of ruin and devastation. Having lost home and homeland, living on handouts in the festering, sweltering chaos of refugee camps in India, peddling wares, being discriminated against, they have no political voice other than the high-pitched shrill of the right-wing Hindu leaders. The Indian state consistently downplays their situation and thus helps to channel their frustrations into Hindu extremism by having no vision for their future, ignoring their specific plight on the one hand, and by being generally Islamophobic, on the other. The arithmetic gets really, truly miserable when it comes to the Kashmiri Muslims in the Valley. Their tragedy is to live their life under constant threat of militancy and an Indian military occupation of anywhere between tens to hundreds of thousands security personnel (and India being a big lucrative market that is ‘secular democratic’ and not Islamic, the world is happy to turn a blind eye to what happens in Kashmir). Since 1989, over 60,000 people in Kashmir have been killed, over 7,000 have gone missing, several hundred thousand have been maimed, tortured, and psychologically damaged. In addition, there are thousands of unmarked graves, thousands of women have been raped, tens of thousands widowed and children orphaned. In the crazy count of violence, numbers lose meaning. The atrocities – murders, rapes, torture, extra-judicial killings, forced disappearances – committed by the Indian security forces in Kashmir are not investigated properly (as in the recent Shopian rape case of 2009). There are currently existing draconian laws, such as the Armed Forces (Jammu & Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) which was applied in Kashmir in 1990 (click here to read about political violence in Kashmir and AFSPA and here for reading on the genesis of the AFSPA from the 1950s in India’s ‘North East’). This act gives the armed forces carte blanche powers to search, arrest, and shoot people with immunity (something that the army often does with impunity in the ‘disturbed’ areas). The people living in Kashmir for the last two decades have only seen the inhuman face of an occupying force which degrades and kills people if they dare to raise their voice, which rapes women, kills young boys, kills beggars in fake encounters. Under such circumstances, it is the paramount duty of mainstream Indians to stand up and be counted, to convey the message to the Indian government that such atrocities cannot and should not be committed in their name. Instead of rabid anti-Muslim hate-mongering and chanting how Kashmir is ‘integral’ to India (which can only produce mirror responses of hard-line intolerant Islamist ideologues inside the Kashmir Valley), the non-Kashmiri Indians have a duty to recognise the rights of Kashmiris as a people. Yes, the Kashmiri Hindus had to leave their homeland, but how will the perpetuation of violence and hatred help their cause? Kashmiri Hindus themselves have been used as pawns by the Indian state. Their story is one of a small but educated and comparatively elite, affluent minority in a Muslim-majority state who had close connections with the Indian establishment and were always targeted and cultivated by Indian intelligence machinery as agents of RAW (Research and Analysis Wing), IB (Intelligence Bureau) and the Indian state. Such machinations over the decades since independence have only served to widen the gulf between Kashmiri Hindus and Kashmiri Muslims. The Indian state has failed both Kashmiri Hindus and Kashmiri Muslims, failing to account for the aspirations of both communities; it has however, succeeded in dividing them in a fundamental (hopefully not irreversible) way. The tragedies of Kashmir are under-reported in India and treacherously ignored worldwide. What Kashmiris want Since the late 1980s, Kashmir has been a war zone. Successive Indian governments have let Kashmiris down. In its negotiations with the leaders of Kashmir, India has been more willing to recognise the ‘politics of their struggle’ (who represents what voice, can be played off against whom to what effect) as opposed to their essential ‘political struggle’. The demand of the Kashmiri people is ‘Azaadi’. Freedom. Freedom to be themselves, to choose their national destiny. We are not Indians. We are Kashmiris. We have a history, a language, a culture that demands recognition. Instead of recognising this gut-wrenching, existential cry of the Kashmiri people, the Indian state sends in more guns, more troops, more rolls of barbed wire, more bribes, more bullets. When this does not work and the Kashmiris scream ‘Go India Go’, they send in a battery of words – Development, Employment, Infrastructure, Laws, Training, Security, Curfew. The big words fall flat and disappear without trace between the folds of the pheran, in the wrinkles on the face, on the marks on the graves, and in the flow of Kashmiri blood. Here’s a valid question to ask Indian political leaders, bureaucrats, army chiefs, right-wing extremists, the ignorant layperson: Are you blind? Can you not see that we want a recognition of our identity as a people? Burn your Bollywood movies. Come to Kashmir. Walk through our cities. The bridges. The ruins. The graves. Look at what we eat. Look at our buildings. Our shrines. Our architecture. Our speech. Our history. Speak to us. See how we live. We are not you. We have never been you. We don’t want to be you. Freedom cannot be finally denied. Nations do sometimes let territories go. Borders do sometimes get realigned. Small states can manage to survive in the middle of large ones (I am in one: Bhutan). For over 50 years, every schoolchild in India has been fed lies – shown an incorrect map of Kashmir that they only recognise as being false once they see a map printed outside India. What do Indians know about Kashmir anyway? 1. Exotic tourist version / Kashmir the beautiful (from holiday photographs) Kashmir is a picture postcard beautiful land crowned by the lofty Himalayas and marked by clear running streams. Old romantic ruins, walnut trees, apple orchards, wood houses and rare flowers populate the region. There are people huddling with cups of almond kahwa over the kangri embers in winter, reflections of red Chinar leaves on the Dal lake in autumn, bustle in Srinagar’s Lal Chowk in summer, and some landslides when it rains. The children are excited for months before the big festivals and pretty women in embroidered pherans are everywhere. There are shikaras and houseboats, unrivalled wood carvings, intricately decorated Papier-Mache boxes, and of course, the shahtoosh, cashmere and pashmina woollens. 2. Security problem version / Kashmir the cruel (from media photographs) The place on maps with the name Kashmir is a conflict-riven divided territory where bloodshed has not ceased for decades now. In the name of separatism, insurgency, militancy, freedom-struggle, territorial integrity, occupation or terrorism, this bloody valley has seen people dying, endless grieving and lost orphans. Kashmir is the name for a problem – like Palestine. Curvy newsprint alphabets indifferently remark the deaths in the Valley; some number shot by soldiers, shot by militants. People read and often forget. The political and public perceptions of Kashmir vary at the levels of the Indian state and the Indian individual. For most Indians, Kashmir is an exotic place, unreal and wholly imaginary. In the time-honoured manner of stereotyping, the Kashmiris are not seen as real people, they are ‘the other’; represented to suit the self-image of mainstream Indians. In the pendulum swing between Bollywood movies and Islamophobia, typically, Kashmir is either filled with an entire assortment of enchanting people and precious things (rosy-cheeked fair girls, apples, walnuts) or a dangerous place filled with a repugnant, ungrateful, and violent Muslims and almost-Muslims. For the last two decades, it has largely been the latter. But this ‘wrecked paradise’ of Kashmir is inhabited by real people with real lives and aspirations. The longer India occupies Kashmir instead of understanding what the people there want, the more it will pave the way for the influence of hard-line intolerance in the Valley (already a land with famous women poetesses like Lalla Ded and Habba Khatoon is becoming known for women like Asiya Andrabi, the head of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, or Daughters of the People, which seeks to promote compulsory veiling for women and attempts to enforce rigid Islamic values hitherto alien in Kashmir’s syncretic culture). Protests by stones and phones Nearly half of those killed in Kashmir in recent weeks were teenagers, one butchered on his way to the hospital in an ambulance. Another eleven year old killed as I write. The wider world, especially the West, is ‘careful’ in how it reports Kashmir, always stressing that the police were ‘provoked’, that the protestors were ‘anti-national’. Far away from the raw fury of Kashmir, commentators in Delhi muse on twitter “NOT condoning death: but WHY wd parents allow 11yrolds to protest”. Why would parents allow a child to protest? I want to ask the stranger back – Have you ever been to a war zone? The rules of normal life are suspended in a place where brutality abounds. Middle-class parents in comfort zones 'allow' their kids action in line with what is good for them. In Kashmir where bullets zip past and people endure daily humiliation, children too (as in Palestine) become cannon fodder. By the time you read this, more will have died. What image does the Indian state have of these children and teenagers - child terrorists? child soldiers? Or, brutalised young people who only have the weapon of the defenceless, a stone? Kashmiris are not allowed to protest, denied freedom of assembly, even as they are under occupation by a democracy. When they shout ‘enough’, they are shot by ‘security’ forces. The Indian state announces that it will create jobs, sends in more troops, announces a billion rupee propaganda fund, places political leaders under house arrests, mulls over ‘non-lethal ways of crowd control’ and intelligence gathering in local languages. It does everything that confirms it as an occupying force – it will spend money, it will send moles, but it will not recognise the basic reason why people are fed-up to the extent of throwing stones: their need for freedom. Of course, the people of Kashmir are economically deprived, there’s poor infrastructure, and the lack of even basic necessities like electricity (routine prolonged power cuts in severe winters). On this latter, the standard Indian answer is that there’s a lot of power-theft in Jammu and Kashmir, but as a poet humorously wrote, burning dinner is not incompetence but war, there are reasons why disenfranchised people don’t pay bills (for example, the lack of identification with the authorities, as in the case of apartheid South Africa). But, the experts analyzing Kashmir in terms of the development critique forget that a prinked cage is still a cage. If a people have been alienated over decades and truly yearn for freedom, then they cannot be bought with promises of jobs. By focusing on the stone in the hands of the Kashmiri protestors (for an exception, click here), the Indian media manages to erase the brutality of the pointed gun in the hands of the soldiers who face them. The extreme methods of repression that India is trialling in Kashmir will gradually find their way into the standard procedures for dealing with protestors elsewhere too. Moreover, the protestors of today have a way to document the atrocities perpetrated on them – youtube, twitter, facebook. The world may not be twitter-trending #Kashmir at the moment, but someday it might. In the meantime, there are hundreds of videos and pictures online that show exactly the kind of attitude the Indian forces have towards the residents of Kashmir – charging at women, beating up children, damaging private property, and being very violent towards young men. It is an irony of the ‘security situation’ in Kashmir today that the security forces who are supposed to ‘secure’ the people, stand barricaded behind razor wire rolls and camouflaged walls (adorned with slogans like ‘Help us to help you’) wearing body armour. Who are these soldiers? The average face of Indian terror in Kashmir are uniformed men of the security forces who hail from poorer economic classes of towns and villages in the plains of India – they have to serve in the tough conditions of a Himalayan valley where theyare the face of the occupation. They live under rough barricaded conditions, feel hemmed in by the mountains; the food, climate, society is nearly entirely alien to them. They have little knowledge of Kashmir’s history, language, or culture (the wisdom of Indian defence seems to be that soldiers who are able to empathise with people in the areas in which they serve, cannot be effective). Many of them are devout Hindus (some posted at a temple in Kashmir complain they are pelted with stones, temple bells are unfastened, land is encroached). They are ill-informed about the objectives of the Indian state or the grievances of the Kashmiri people. Quite a few of them turn hostile to the local population under such circumstances. On a recent visit to Srinagar, I was talking to an Indian CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) soldier at a prominent civic location in the city who lamented to me that: ‘Kashmiri people are dogs. We do so much for them and they are ingrate curs’. I disagreed, later mentioning that I was Kashmiri myself. He was a young man, far from home, trapped by circumstances, who dreamt of a place called Italy. Periodically, in the middle of conversing, he or one of his colleagues would randomly shout at local Kashmiri passers-by; rudely, brusquely, asking them to stop, search them, call them names, shoo them away. The interaction was obviously power-laden and inhuman; the Kashmiris around him were nameless, faceless bodies. Soon after I left, I read in the papers that there had been a blast at that site in which a soldier was also killed. I always wondered whether he had been the same man I had spoken to; the one who could not wait to get out of Kashmir. In Delhi, earlier this year, a Kashmiri Hindu stood posted at the gates of the ‘Kashmir Expo’ (a handicrafts fair selling Kashmiri clothes) and confidentially whispered to me that he was there to ‘keep an eye’ on the Kashmiri Muslim sellers inside. Elsewhere, in Srinagar, in the midst of playing cricket, small Kashmiri boys belted out slogans about ‘azaadi’, reminding me of East Jerusalem or Ramallah. Daily workers at neglected archaeological monuments rued their fate about not being made permanent by the centre in their job for decades because of their religion as Muslims. An elderly craftsman uttered the precise and profound loss of the ‘Kalam’, the pen – writing, but also perhaps what it enables: story, art, tradition. Nostalgia for the Future Kashmir is daily witnessing an attrition of its culture, literature, architecture, psychology. At the centre of Srinagar is Lal Chowk (mark the meaning, ‘Red Square’, renamed by Sheikh Abdullah), and at the centre of Lal Chowk is the ruin of the Palladium Cinema; the once thriving cultural buzz of Kashmir has been decimated in the wake of the last two decades of mindless violence and cultural repression (the last surviving cinema in IOK is under threat of closure). This destruction of cultural objects in wars is continuous throughout the history of the world (see Robert Bevan’s ‘The Destruction of Memory: Architecture at War’). On the first day of new year 2010, when the aeruginous near-full moon rose over the Zabarwan mountains at night, very few Kashmiris were out to see the copper-coloured miracle. There were no public celebrations at midnight. The city has been ghosted by oppression, violence, and terror perpetrated by the military/militants. The Kashmiri Muslims being killed, raped, tortured, maimed in Kashmir are my fellow country people. The Kashmiri Hindus displaced in India are my fellow country people too (even as they classify me for my Kashmiri Pandit Hindu surname ‘Kaul’ and curse me for expressing the views I do). Other non-Kashmiri Indians insinuate treachery when I call myself ‘Kashmiri’ instead of Indian. Never mind. I am Kashmiri. I belong to Kashmir: my fatherland narrated to me by a father now dead. My ancestral home by a river is a carved wooden house with many floors and stairs leading up to an attic in a street named after a fifteenth century Sultan who could read Sanskrit, Persian, Tibetan. The meta-narratives of big states have eaten up my history, my identity, my notion of a 'home'. And it the same for every Kashmiri. I am alive, and for now, away. Those Kashmiris dehumanised and dying in the Valley do not have the luxury of reflection. Indians should stop firing at those who pelt stones. Instead of the task force on crowd control, they might think about the meaning of the endlessly gathering crowds, the message in the parched heart of each stone. Any political movement always has multiple strands within it, multiple aspirations, which is where leadership comes in, no doubt partly manipulative. But the freedom of Kashmiri people to elect political representatives into power was the most dangerous thing to tamper with in a democracy. The ten percent turnout of the 1996 election goes back to 1987 and the lack of trust before that even. The elections in Kashmir in 2008 were interpreted in India as a conclusive vote in favour of development and India. Yet the design of the electoral mechanism might have been salient too; ‘staggered elections’ (such as the one in 2008) are recognised in the scholarly literature as being prone to ‘bandwagon effects’. Some believed that the violence in the Valley prior to these elections (June to August 2008) was deliberately engineered by Indian intelligence to ‘vent’ anger prior to the elections (in November 2008) and ‘test’ the strength of separatist sentiment in Kashmir. Messy political accommodation may delay, but will not cure, the raw fury of the Kashmiri people who, at the moment, face indoctrination or liquidation. Every year in the middle of the month of August, on Independence Day, Indians repeat the momentous 1947 midnight freedom speech of Nehru: “Long years ago we made a tryst with destiny, and now the time comes when we shall redeem our pledge, not wholly, or in full measure, but very substantially…A moment comes, which comes but rarely in history… when the soul of a nation, long suppressed, finds utterance”. Let these magic words be true for the nation of Kashmir too. Redeem the pledges, if not wholly and in full measure, then very substantially. Understand Kashmiris instead of attempting to ‘solve’ or ‘resolve’ Kashmir. Conventional strategists don’t always know best: demilitarise Kashmir. Repeal the draconian laws. End the mistrust of the Kashmiri people. Work with Pakistan and China to open borders and make the nation of Kashmir a reality for Kashmiris. Freedom cannot be realised without the capacity to conceive of the freedom of others. [1] I recommend Andrew Whitehead’s recent article ‘The People's Militia: Communists and Kashmiri nationalism in the 1940s’, Twentieth Century Communism, 2: 1 2010, pp. 141-168; it discusses the radical ‘New Kashmir’ manifesto of 1944 and the drastic land reforms, the ‘Quit Kashmir’ [note not ‘Quit India’] cries of 1946, the Kashmiri women militia of 1940s who were the first women in India trained to use rifles during the late 1940s, and the subsequent worries about the spread of communism in Kashmir, both in India and beyond. Whitehead quotes the diplomat Josef Korbel’s words from the 1954 book Danger in Kashmir: “Kashmir might eventually become the hub of Communist activities in Southern Asia”. Let me add that Korbel was the father of Madeleine Albright and the mentor of Condoleezza Rice, both ex-US secretaries of state [2] His main achievement there was renovating the ‘Vaishno Devi’ Hindu shrine; in 2010 he’s currently selling a book with the title ‘Reforming Vaishno Devi and a case for Reformed, Reawakened and Enlightened Hinduism’, and being favourably reviewed in some media with the words, “among the many reasons I admire Jagmohan, the former BJP minister who sadly, seems to find no place in his party these days, is because he has no hesitation in talking about Hinduism”. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 22:11:30 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 22:11:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Express solidarity with the people of Kashmir In-Reply-To: <531DD9E4-2C76-4FF5-9FA0-D6F8F3507988@sarai.net> References: <87995.9991.qm@web112618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <531DD9E4-2C76-4FF5-9FA0-D6F8F3507988@sarai.net> Message-ID: As expected ....Lage Raho On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:01 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All, > > The petition forwarded by Mr.Aima says - > > > We resolve that as citizens we will do all that we can to create a >> conducive and convivial environment for restoration of normalcy in their >> tragically disrupted lives. >> We also pledge to build bridges of understanding to prevent the >> communalization, brutalization and militarization of state and civil society >> in J&K. >> > > How can this be done without removing, for instance,even at a bare minimum, > the obscenity of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act? I read the petition > very carefully, and did not find a single concrete, or specific demand, such > as the scrapping of the aforementioned AFSPA - a demand well within, even, > the "framework of the Indian constitution", that a lot of people go on and > on about. In the absence of even such minimal specificities, I can only say > that this petition, and those who have moved it, are prime examples of what > it means to be really patronizing. This is the kind of 'Care' that smothers > you just as effectively as a really wet blanket, that mimics the language of > dissent, only to actually erase it. > > With sympathizers like these, who needs enemies? Keep your candles, give me > a stone. > > best > > Shuddha > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Sep 2 22:31:02 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 22:31:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Unfortunate and Condemnable - Reported Killing of Disarmed Policeman by CPI(Maoist) in Bihar Message-ID: Dear All, If it is true, as has been reported in sections of the media, that a disarmed policeman held hostage by the CPI (Maoist) in Bihar has been killed, then this act is totally worthy of condemnation. The killing of an unarmed captive is NOT the same thing as a death that occurs during an actual incidence of armed conflict. It cannot be justified under any circumstances, and is just as dastardly an act as the fake encounter that killed the Maoist spokesperson and negotiator known as 'Azad' which occurred recently. If the CPI(Maoist) is fighting a 'just war' as it claims to be doing, then, enemy combatants held by it must be seen by it as 'prisoners of war'. They must be treated as such, and not as hostages to be dispensed with. This necessarily means, that the CPI(Maoist) and military formations allied to it and under its command, must abide by. and be seen to be abiding, by the rules of combat that have evolved through international consensus. These include the Geneva conventions, and their additional protocols, which prohibit, under any circumstances the torture or execution of prisoners of war. It may be noted that prominent insurgent groups in the North East have adhered to these conventions in the conduct of their operations against the armed might of the Indian state. This indicates not weakness, but strength and a considerable degree of political maturity There is absolutely no reason why the CPI(Maoist) cannot be expected to display the same degree of political maturity in its own conduct of war. It is incumbent upon all those of us who wish to see an end to the atrocities that are associated with 'Operation Green Hunt' that we demand of the CPI(Maoist) that it not stoop to a level of conduct that is identical to that we normally associate with the state that it claims to oppose. Equally, I believe that we should build public pressure such that the Government of India, and the concerned state government roll back their attempts to militarize large areas of Central and Eastern India and that they enter into immediate, unconditional negotiations with the CPI(Maoists). in the immediate scenario, I believe that the concerned state agencies should release all political detainees who have been held without charge, and enter into serious and concrete negotiations so that the lives of the remaining three hostages held by the CPI(Maoist) are not endangered. regards, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 00:08:43 2010 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 00:08:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: IPPNW Calls for Uranium Mining Ban In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Xavier Dias Date: 1 September 2010 14:37 International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War (IPPNW)Calls for Uranium Mining Ban Uranium ore mining and the production of uranium oxide (yellowcake) are irresponsible and represent a grave threat to health and to the environment. Both processes involve an elementary violation of human rights and their use lead to an incalculable risk for world peace and an obstacle to nuclear disarmament. The International Council of IPPNW therefore resolves that: IPPNW call for appropriate measures to ban uranium mining worldwide. Reasons for Above: Uranium mining contaminates groundwater and radioactivity remains in the heaps, tailings and evaporation ponds. Uranium and its radioactive decay elements are highly toxic. They attack inner organs and the respiratory system. Scientific studies have shown that the following diseases are caused by exposition to radon gas, uranium and uranium’s decay elements: Bronchial and lung cancer; cancer of the bone marrow, stomach, liver, intestine, gall bladder, kidneys and skin, leukemia, other blood diseases, psychological disorders and birth defects. Approximately three‐quarters of the world’s uranium is mined on territory belonging to indigenous peoples. The inhabitants of affected regions are (for the most part) vulnerable to exposure from radioactive substances that threaten them with short‐ and long‐term health risks and damaging genetic effects. As well as the direct health effects from contamination of the water, the immense water consumption in mining regions is environmentally and economically damaging – and in turn detrimental for human health. The extraction of water leads to a reduction of the groundwater table and thereby to desertification; plants and animals die, the traditional subsistence of the inhabitants is eliminated, the existence of whole cultures are threatened. This is not all. Ending uranium mining ‐ also because of its relevance to the processing of uranium, its military use, the production of nuclear energy and the unresolved problem of how to permanently dispose of nuclear waste ‐ would represent a provision of preventive health care, as well as a policy of peace and reason. Banning uranium mining would reduce the risk of proliferation. It would make uranium resources more scarce, thus accelerating the abandonment of the civil use of nuclear energy. The pressure on political decision‐makers to find safe methods of permanently disposing of nuclear waste would increase. Banning uranium mining would thus promote the phasing‐out of the irresponsible practice of using nuclear energy and increase pressure globally to force a change‐over to renewable energies. *'Social movements die if they do not repeatedly reinvent themselves'* Peter Waterman B 6 Abhilasha Apts - 11 A Purulea Rd. - P.O. Ranchi Jharkhand 834001= INDIA Tel/fax: (O) +91 651 2532035 / 2531874 / 2532104 - Cell +91(India) 9431185072 www.firstpeoplesfirst.in www.birsa.in www.adhikar.in From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 08:48:12 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 23:18:12 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as Living Hell by Giogiana Violante References: Message-ID: <0C000D8AB9E44325A1E4BDCEE5506AE5@tara> I think a response from a woman hurts macho Kashmiri nationalist a lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aditya Raj Baul" To: "reader-list" Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir as Living Hell by Giogiana Violante > If that means you're accusing me of being Shivam, you're wrong. I'm > Aditya Raj Baul. > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Pawan Durani > wrote: >> Shivam .... I miss your name .... >> >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:57 PM, SJabbar wrote: >>> And you, who cowers behind a false name are still free to judge me, my >>> intentions and my deepest feelings, sir/madam. >>> >>> We are still unsure whether the 7 year-old was victim of a stampede or >>> was >>> indeed brutally beaten. There are lots of people who gleefully dance on >>> the >>> graves of 7 year olds and wait for the next victim so that they can howl >>> with righteous anger. I condemn all 64 deaths of civilians whether they >>> were >>> accidental or intentional but I am not about to join a hysterical chorus >>> to >>> prove I stand on some moral high ground. >>> >>> On 31/08/10 1:57 PM, "Aditya Raj Baul" wrote: >>> >>>> Perhaps she's dependent on cyber-cafes? >>> >>> Stuff like this doesn't move Sonia >>>> Jabbar: "Last week a seven year old >>> child was beaten to death. You cannot >>>> accidentally beat a seven year >>> old to death. It is not like a bullet that goes >>>> astray. I cannot see >>> how a stone thrown by a seven year old child can do >>>> sufficient damage >>> to any man to warrant his being beaten to death." >>> >>> You are >>>> more concerned about blaming the strikes, protests and stone-pelting. >>> >>> You >>>> show your true colours again and again, Ms Jabbar. You change them >>> frequently >>>> but the true colours come out pretty often. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:42 PM, >>>> SJabbar wrote: >>>> This may come as a churlish response >>>> to what is obviously an unfeigned cri >>>> de coeur, but I find it difficult to >>>> let it pass without comment. >>>> With her very first sentence Ms. Violante >>>> condemns herself to hyperbole. She >>>> writes: " This is the first time in weeks >>>> I have had access to the >>>> internet." >>>> >>>> Why, where does she live? I have >>>> been in touch with friends every single >>>> day over the net and when I was in >>>> Kashmir in the first week of August when >>>> violence had peaked, there was no >>>> question of being cut off from the rest of >>>> the world. >>>> >>>> To suggest that >>>> people are on the street because they are "famished >>>> rioters," and that the >>>> shutdowns over the past 2 months have nothing to do >>>> with the hartaal >>>> calendars and stone pelters and everything to do with >>>> curfew is not even >>>> something that those on the street demanding azadi would >>>> declare. >>>> >>>> The >>>> Indian army whom she accuses of all kinds of excesses these past 2 >>>> months >>>> have held aloof from the present troubles. Not one of the 64 deaths >>>> have >>>> been ascribed to them, but to the J&K Police and the CRPF. Even a >>>> Kashmiri >>>> child knows the difference and if a foreigner doesn't, well, at >>>> least she >>>> can read the newspapers before attempting a hysterical analysis of >>>> a >>>> situation that needs no more hysteria. >>>> >>>> And 'Muslim' hospitality? As >>>> opposed to 'Hindu' security forces? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 30/08/10 8:54 PM, "Shuddhabrata >>>> Sengupta" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> Here is an account of >>>> daily life nowadays, in Srinagar, Kashmir, >>>>> >>>> through the eyes of a woman >>>> student (a westerner) currently resident >>>> in >>>>> Kashmir University. >>>> >>>> >>>> best >>>> >>>> Shuddha >>>> >>>> ------------------------- >>>> >>>> India¹s >>>>> brutality has >>>> turned Kashmir into a living >>>>> hell >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.thecommentfactory.com/indias-brutality-has-turned-kashmir- >>>>> >>>> >>>> into-a-living-hell-3472/ >>>> >>>> By Giogiana Violante >>>> >>>> >>>> This is the first time >>>> in >>>>> weeks I have had access to the internet. I >>>> have not been allowed to >>>> receive >>>>> or send text messages for three >>>> months. Just like all Kashmiris >>>> my telephone >>>>> has been barred from >>>> such contact. The local news channels >>>> have been banned. >>>>> India >>>> controls everything here. And then kills it. The >>>> situation is >>>>> >>>> horrific. Over these months of food rationing and persistent >>>> curfew >>>> whereby >>>>> all is closed and the streets totally deserted in utter >>>> >>>> silence, suddenly a >>>>> protest arises and then spreads throughout the >>>> whole >>>> city in a surge of >>>>> frustrated and famished rioters shouting >>>> ŒAZADI AZADI >>>> AZADI¹ (freedom) until >>>>> it dissipates suddenly into a >>>> cacophony of >>>> gunshots and clouds of >>>>> teargas. >>>> >>>> I observe all this going on at a safe >>>> remove of only one metre by a >>>>> >>>> big thick brick wall interrupted by the >>>> Mevlana Rumi gate to Kashmir >>>>> >>>> University, where I am residing. I see >>>> through the iron bars hordes >>>> upon >>>>> hordes of protesters being shot at >>>> randomly, and I stand there >>>> repellently >>>>> incapable of doing anything. An >>>> endless cycle of silence >>>> and violence. The >>>>> Indian army own total control >>>> and freedom to shoot >>>> at will, to shoot to >>>>> kill, anyone whom they choose >>>> to. >>>> >>>> Last week a seven year old child was beaten >>>>> to death. You cannot >>>> >>>> accidentally beat a seven year old to death. It is not >>>>> like a bullet >>>> that >>>> goes astray. I cannot see how a stone thrown by a seven >>>>> year old >>>> child >>>> can do sufficient damage to any man to warrant his being >>>>> beaten >>>> to death. >>>> Children in this part of the world are tiny. A seven-year- >>>>> >>>> old is the >>>> size of a three year old westerner. So what kind of person >>>> beats >>>>> a tiny >>>> child to death when his stone throw must carry so little >>>> force that >>>>> it >>>> barely deserves a shrug? This is such a common >>>> occurrence here. >>>> >>>> The >>>>> >>>> other day I left the university grounds to visit a professor only >>>> one >>>> minute >>>>> away. True there is curfew but his house is in a private >>>> road >>>> attached to >>>>> the university so I thought I would risk it. When I >>>> returned >>>> a roofless sumo >>>>> vehicle full of ten Indian army thugs >>>> laughing and >>>> shouting came charging >>>>> through the street waving their >>>> batons and guns. >>>> They headed for an old man >>>>> and tried to hit him and >>>> then they knocked a >>>> 4-year-old boy off his >>>>> tricycle. For fun. He was >>>> only 50 centimetres >>>> outside his house¹s garden so >>>>> that hardly counts >>>> as disobeying the curfew >>>> and yet they charged at him on >>>>> purpose. They >>>> knocked him off the tricycle >>>> and then headed for me, which as >>>>> a >>>> western woman I did not expect. >>>> >>>> I >>>> am living here within the deserted >>>>> university grounds, alone with >>>> the >>>> security guards and a few random >>>>> professors and clerks. The >>>> university >>>> was evacuated three months ago when >>>>> the troubles commenced >>>> and the >>>> students and school children all over the >>>>> valley have >>>> experienced, as >>>> they always do, a great void in their >>>>> education. >>>> >>>> The Indian army gun >>>> down eleven-year-old girls banging on the >>>>> doors >>>> of pharmacists when it is >>>> clear that their disobedience of the curfew >>>>> >>>> is purely out of desperation. >>>> How can a full grown man gun down and >>>> kill an >>>>> eleven-yea- old girl >>>> banging on a pharmacy door in an empty >>>> street? A woman >>>>> kneeling on the >>>> pavement covering her face with her >>>> hands had her hands >>>>> beaten to a pulp >>>> and they had to be amputated. >>>> Two weeks ago, on a Friday, I >>>>> heard the >>>> usual impassioned pleads for >>>> freedom hailing from Hazratbal >>>>> Mosque, which >>>> is just outside the >>>> university. For an hour the calls of >>>>> ŒAzadi¹ >>>> escalated and escalated >>>> until suddenly I heard a spray of gunshots. >>>>> The >>>> shots continued >>>> sporadically over the next hour. I later found out that >>>>> >>>> the mosque >>>> was raided by the army and people were beaten severely. Some >>>>> >>>> died, of >>>> course. >>>> >>>> The Indian army have the right and the freedom to >>>> behave >>>>> like this, >>>> invading places of worship simply because of >>>> impassioned calls >>>>> for >>>> freedom by a people who are being totally crushed >>>> and obliterated. >>>>> >>>> This sort of thing happens every day. Total abuse of >>>> power by the >>>> occupying >>>>> forces. But the people of Kashmir have no right >>>> to >>>> retaliate. Nor the >>>>> freedom to even leave their homes. I cannot bear >>>> >>>> my complete and utter >>>>> uselessness in this situation. As a rich >>>> westerner >>>> even I cannot get food. >>>>> The other day myself and seven boys >>>> shared two >>>> carrots between us and a >>>>> handful of rice. >>>> >>>> So how can these Kashmiris be >>>> managing when they have not >>>>> been able >>>> to open their businesses for three >>>> months? How can they even have >>>>> the >>>> money to afford food, even if there >>>> WAS food to be had from >>>> somewhere? >>>>> You risk your life in order to get >>>> food. How can you get >>>> food without >>>>> leaving home? Yesterday a young boy >>>> working as a clerk >>>> in the university >>>>> showed me his mauled arms and the >>>> gash in his >>>> thigh. His arms were black and >>>>> purple with crusted blood from >>>> last >>>> week. His legs were obscene. Flesh made >>>>> hell. >>>> >>>> ŒI went to get >>>> medicine¹ he said, Œand the army caught me¹. I smiled >>>>> >>>> and said, ŒOh you >>>> people are always getting caught on the way to get >>>>> >>>> medicine. Rubbish it >>>> was medicine. You went to get biscuits.¹ >>>> >>>> ŒAren¹t >>>>> biscuits medicine?¹ he >>>> replied, smiling the same smile as mine. >>>> >>>> Lat week as I >>>>> circled the >>>> admittedly beautiful university grounds, a >>>> forest of chinar >>>>> trees and >>>> endless rows of roses in full bloom, >>>> moghul gardens outside every >>>>> >>>> department (Why are these gardens >>>> perfectly tendered? Given the situation >>>>> >>>> outside how do these people >>>> have the strength and hope to even care to >>>> tend >>>>> their gardens? >>>> Everything here is death and hopelessness. I would >>>> have >>>>> expected the >>>> gardens to have been left to run to desolation), I saw >>>> a thin >>>>> little >>>> old man with a cotton bag full of lumps. Usually one >>>> doesn¹t see >>>>> >>>> bags. Certainly not ones with lumps in them. Not in these >>>> conditions. >>>> My >>>>> mind viciously wondered how he got the food? Who he got it >>>> from? >>>> Had he >>>>> bribed one of the army pigs at the university gates? I >>>> >>>> suddenly realised I >>>>> was frowning and in a very ugly-minded manner. >>>> The >>>> ugly things hunger does >>>>> to a person¹s mind is shocking. His bag >>>> was >>>> probably full of dirty >>>>> laundry. >>>> >>>> Sometimes someone will address me >>>> angrily as I pass by, something >>>>> >>>> along the lines of: >>>> >>>> ³Hey you, >>>> America! Why aren¹t you helping us? You do >>>>> something.² >>>> >>>> ³What can I do?² >>>> I reply, ³I¹m neither a politician nor a >>>>> journalist. >>>> I¹m just trapped >>>> here like you.² >>>> >>>> ³But you¹re a Westener. You >>>>> see how things are here. We >>>> have been >>>> living like this for twenty years. >>>>> When you go back to your >>>> country >>>> you tell them. You ask them why they aren¹t >>>>> helping us.² >>>> >>>> >>>> ³It¹s your own fault,² I reply. ³Why should we bother saving >>>>> your >>>> country >>>> when its got no natural resources worth raping? All you¹ve >>>>> >>>> got is apples, >>>> goats and saffron. You¹re doomed.² >>>> >>>> A few seconds of silence >>>>> will be >>>> followed by a warm invitation to >>>> tea. Muslim hospitality. At this >>>>> time >>>> when every tea leaf is precious >>>> these people will share even their last >>>>> >>>> few crumbs of powdered milk >>>> with you. And you sit there sipping the tea >>>>> >>>> wondering how and where >>>> they managed to procure it and how much it cost >>>> them >>>>> in beatings. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >>>> The Sarai Programme at >>>> CSDS >>>> Raqs Media >>>>> Collective >>>> shuddha at sarai.net >>>> www.sarai.net >>>> >>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>>> >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list >>>> on >>>>> media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an >>>> email to >>>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >>>> header. >>>> To >>>>> unsubscribe: >>>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>>> >>>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion >>>> list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send >>>> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >>>> header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> ___________________________ >>>> ______________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>>> city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to >>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To >>>> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 08:56:01 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 23:26:01 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as Living Hell by Giogiana Violante References: Message-ID: <76DFAF981D1E4813A1932E746890A202@tara> I think an otherwise sane scholar is losing his calm and reason in the hallaballoo in the apple orchard. The other day he put a stamp of authenticity on a statement that looked like Bal Thakure saying Shiv Sena was secular. The sane scholar suggested that we should believe what he said. Well, it wasn't about Shiv Sena and Thakure but about the Kashmiri version of it. You shouldn't stretch "political correctness" to the level of irrationality. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SJabbar" To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" ; "Sarai" Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir as Living Hell by Giogiana Violante > This may come as a churlish response to what is obviously an unfeigned cri > de coeur, but I find it difficult to let it pass without comment. > With her very first sentence Ms. Violante condemns herself to hyperbole. > She > writes: " This is the first time in weeks I have had access to the > internet." > > Why, where does she live? I have been in touch with friends every single > day over the net and when I was in Kashmir in the first week of August > when > violence had peaked, there was no question of being cut off from the rest > of > the world. > > To suggest that people are on the street because they are "famished > rioters," and that the shutdowns over the past 2 months have nothing to do > with the hartaal calendars and stone pelters and everything to do with > curfew is not even something that those on the street demanding azadi > would > declare. > > The Indian army whom she accuses of all kinds of excesses these past 2 > months have held aloof from the present troubles. Not one of the 64 > deaths > have been ascribed to them, but to the J&K Police and the CRPF. Even a > Kashmiri child knows the difference and if a foreigner doesn't, well, at > least she can read the newspapers before attempting a hysterical analysis > of > a situation that needs no more hysteria. > > And 'Muslim' hospitality? As opposed to 'Hindu' security forces? > > > > On 30/08/10 8:54 PM, "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" wrote: > >> Dear All, > > Here is an account of daily life nowadays, in Srinagar, Kashmir, >> > through the eyes of a woman student (a westerner) currently resident > in >> Kashmir University. > > best > > Shuddha > > ------------------------- > > India¹s >> brutality has turned Kashmir into a living >> hell > > http://www.thecommentfactory.com/indias-brutality-has-turned-kashmir- >> > into-a-living-hell-3472/ > > By Giogiana Violante > > > This is the first time in >> weeks I have had access to the internet. I > have not been allowed to receive >> or send text messages for three > months. Just like all Kashmiris my telephone >> has been barred from > such contact. The local news channels have been banned. >> India > controls everything here. And then kills it. The situation is >> > horrific. Over these months of food rationing and persistent curfew > whereby >> all is closed and the streets totally deserted in utter > silence, suddenly a >> protest arises and then spreads throughout the > whole city in a surge of >> frustrated and famished rioters shouting > ŒAZADI AZADI AZADI¹ (freedom) until >> it dissipates suddenly into a > cacophony of gunshots and clouds of >> teargas. > > I observe all this going on at a safe remove of only one metre by a >> > big thick brick wall interrupted by the Mevlana Rumi gate to Kashmir >> > University, where I am residing. I see through the iron bars hordes > upon >> hordes of protesters being shot at randomly, and I stand there > repellently >> incapable of doing anything. An endless cycle of silence > and violence. The >> Indian army own total control and freedom to shoot > at will, to shoot to >> kill, anyone whom they choose to. > > Last week a seven year old child was beaten >> to death. You cannot > accidentally beat a seven year old to death. It is not >> like a bullet > that goes astray. I cannot see how a stone thrown by a seven >> year old > child can do sufficient damage to any man to warrant his being >> beaten > to death. Children in this part of the world are tiny. A seven-year- >> > old is the size of a three year old westerner. So what kind of person > beats >> a tiny child to death when his stone throw must carry so little > force that >> it barely deserves a shrug? This is such a common > occurrence here. > > The >> other day I left the university grounds to visit a professor only > one minute >> away. True there is curfew but his house is in a private > road attached to >> the university so I thought I would risk it. When I > returned a roofless sumo >> vehicle full of ten Indian army thugs > laughing and shouting came charging >> through the street waving their > batons and guns. They headed for an old man >> and tried to hit him and > then they knocked a 4-year-old boy off his >> tricycle. For fun. He was > only 50 centimetres outside his house¹s garden so >> that hardly counts > as disobeying the curfew and yet they charged at him on >> purpose. They > knocked him off the tricycle and then headed for me, which as >> a > western woman I did not expect. > > I am living here within the deserted >> university grounds, alone with > the security guards and a few random >> professors and clerks. The > university was evacuated three months ago when >> the troubles commenced > and the students and school children all over the >> valley have > experienced, as they always do, a great void in their >> education. > > The Indian army gun down eleven-year-old girls banging on the >> doors > of pharmacists when it is clear that their disobedience of the curfew >> > is purely out of desperation. How can a full grown man gun down and > kill an >> eleven-yea- old girl banging on a pharmacy door in an empty > street? A woman >> kneeling on the pavement covering her face with her > hands had her hands >> beaten to a pulp and they had to be amputated. > Two weeks ago, on a Friday, I >> heard the usual impassioned pleads for > freedom hailing from Hazratbal >> Mosque, which is just outside the > university. For an hour the calls of >> ŒAzadi¹ escalated and escalated > until suddenly I heard a spray of gunshots. >> The shots continued > sporadically over the next hour. I later found out that >> the mosque > was raided by the army and people were beaten severely. Some >> died, of > course. > > The Indian army have the right and the freedom to behave >> like this, > invading places of worship simply because of impassioned calls >> for > freedom by a people who are being totally crushed and obliterated. >> > This sort of thing happens every day. Total abuse of power by the > occupying >> forces. But the people of Kashmir have no right to > retaliate. Nor the >> freedom to even leave their homes. I cannot bear > my complete and utter >> uselessness in this situation. As a rich > westerner even I cannot get food. >> The other day myself and seven boys > shared two carrots between us and a >> handful of rice. > > So how can these Kashmiris be managing when they have not >> been able > to open their businesses for three months? How can they even have >> the > money to afford food, even if there WAS food to be had from > somewhere? >> You risk your life in order to get food. How can you get > food without >> leaving home? Yesterday a young boy working as a clerk > in the university >> showed me his mauled arms and the gash in his > thigh. His arms were black and >> purple with crusted blood from last > week. His legs were obscene. Flesh made >> hell. > > ŒI went to get medicine¹ he said, Œand the army caught me¹. I smiled >> > and said, ŒOh you people are always getting caught on the way to get >> > medicine. Rubbish it was medicine. You went to get biscuits.¹ > > ŒAren¹t >> biscuits medicine?¹ he replied, smiling the same smile as mine. > > Lat week as I >> circled the admittedly beautiful university grounds, a > forest of chinar >> trees and endless rows of roses in full bloom, > moghul gardens outside every >> department (Why are these gardens > perfectly tendered? Given the situation >> outside how do these people > have the strength and hope to even care to tend >> their gardens? > Everything here is death and hopelessness. I would have >> expected the > gardens to have been left to run to desolation), I saw a thin >> little > old man with a cotton bag full of lumps. Usually one doesn¹t see >> > bags. Certainly not ones with lumps in them. Not in these conditions. > My >> mind viciously wondered how he got the food? Who he got it from? > Had he >> bribed one of the army pigs at the university gates? I > suddenly realised I >> was frowning and in a very ugly-minded manner. > The ugly things hunger does >> to a person¹s mind is shocking. His bag > was probably full of dirty >> laundry. > > Sometimes someone will address me angrily as I pass by, something >> > along the lines of: > > ³Hey you, America! Why aren¹t you helping us? You do >> something.² > > ³What can I do?² I reply, ³I¹m neither a politician nor a >> journalist. > I¹m just trapped here like you.² > > ³But you¹re a Westener. You >> see how things are here. We have been > living like this for twenty years. >> When you go back to your country > you tell them. You ask them why they aren¹t >> helping us.² > > ³It¹s your own fault,² I reply. ³Why should we bother saving >> your > country when its got no natural resources worth raping? All you¹ve >> > got is apples, goats and saffron. You¹re doomed.² > > A few seconds of silence >> will be followed by a warm invitation to > tea. Muslim hospitality. At this >> time when every tea leaf is precious > these people will share even their last >> few crumbs of powdered milk > with you. And you sit there sipping the tea >> wondering how and where > they managed to procure it and how much it cost them >> in beatings. > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media >> Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _____ >> ____________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 11:27:25 2010 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 11:27:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Anti-Islam Hysteria by Pankaj Mishra Message-ID: How similar are opposites:Hirsi and Mishra ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/op-ed-contributor/antiislam-hysteria-290 *In the New York Times last week, writing about the eruption of hatred for Muslims in the US, Frank Rich asked what seems an increasingly pertinent question: “How do you win Muslim hearts and minds in Kandahar when you are calling Muslims every filthy name in the book in New York?” *Americans who are shocked by what the columnist Maureen Dowd calls a “weird mass nervous breakdown” accuse the usual suspects — right-wingers whose “fear and disinformation” is “amplified by the poisonous echo chamber that is the modern media environment”. But anti-Muslim toxins were injected into the mainstream well before August 2010, and not by right-wingers alone. Bestselling authors like Ayaan Hirsi Ali may be the “new heroes”, as the writer Peter Beinart puts it, of the Republican party’s crusade against Muslims. But “professional” former Muslims have long provided respectable cover for the bigotry and, more often, plain ignorance of mainstream western commentators on Islam. On Monday Germany’s Hirsi Ali, the Turkish writer Necla Kelek, stood shoulder to shoulder with the German central banker and Social Democratic party (SPD) member Thilo Sarrazin as he asserted that Muslims are out-breeding white, presumably “Aryan” Germans and that “all Jews share the same gene”. Most of these ex-Muslim “dissidents” lucratively raging against Islam in the West wouldn’t be able to flourish without the imprimatur of influential institutions and individuals in the US and Europe. Hirsi Ali, who wishes to be the Voltaire of Islam, commands rapturous endorsements from not only right-wing crazies like Pamela Geller and Glenn Beck but also Tina Brown. Certainly, the story of Hirsi Ali’s life attests powerfully to the degradations suffered by many women in patriarchal cultures. There is no question that she should feel free to say that some Muslims are programmed to kill infidels and mutilate female bodies, however much these opinions may offend some people. There is little reason, however, for most of her opinions to claim serious intellectual attention. Yet the mildest criticism of Hirsi Ali’s naivety triggers a tsunami of vitriol from her army of prominent supporters. In recent months columnists and critics such as Clive James and Melanie Phillips have rebuked Ian Buruma and Timothy Garton Ash for not joining the chorus of praise for Hirsi Ali, a defender of the western Enlightenment. As it turns out, millions of angry Americans have opened up an equally unedifying “debate” on Islam. “You look them [Muslims] in the eye and flex your muscles,” Hirsi Ali exhorted the West recently, “there comes a moment when you crush your enemy.” Well, that much-awaited moment is here. Populist sentiment, which Democrats as well as Republicans clamour to represent, fully endorses the scapegoating of a religious minority for America’s recent military and economic failures. *The writer is author of Temptations of the West —The Guardian, London* -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From drew at futureeverything.org Fri Sep 3 18:44:56 2010 From: drew at futureeverything.org (drew at futureeverything.org) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 06:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] FutureEverything at Media Festival Arts - Warm-up online forum from 2 September Message-ID: <49416.82.69.121.15.1283519696.squirrel@2010.futureeverything.org> FutureEverything at Media Festival Arts FutureEverything is presenting a Lounge, Panel, Artwork and Online Forum at Media Festival Arts in London 8-10 September. *Warm-up online forum now live* Debate all things digital, and question the climate of cuts. 2-8 September. http://debate.futureeverything.org/ --------------------- --------------------- FutureEverything Panel: We Don't Need Another Bubble (How To Build A Sustainable Digital Culture) Building on a series of debates that began with The City Debate in Manchester during May, FutureEverything offers a vision of the future of art and innovation emerging from digital culture. Drew Hemment, Marleen Stikker, Amanda McDonald Crowley, Toby Barnes. 9 September, 14:00. Roundhouse London. http://debate.futureeverything.org --------------------- --------------------- FutureEverything Lounge Lounge Workshop and discussion event on digital culture and public space, encouraging open conversation and an informal ambience. Highlights include Bill Thompson plus a HackData workshop led by Matthew Somerville. Decamp afterwards to the Hawley Arms to continue discussions over free drinks! 9 September, 12:00-17:00. Circle Bar, Roundhouse London. http://debate.futureeverything.org --------------------- --------------------- Digital Debates - Lounge Warm-Up Online Forum Lead or join a digital culture debate. Bill Thompson will be leading a debate on public space in an online/digitised world and how culture is presented in it. Discuss this topic and others on the forum in the FutureEverything Lounge Warm-Up. 2-8 Stepember. http://debate.futureeverything.org --------------------- --------------------- Questions for the Opening Night Panel Online Forum Propose, debate and vote on the big questions and recession-bending ideas for the opening night panel. Cuts, closures, reorganisation‚Ķ what does it mean for the Arts, and what part can digital play in overcoming the change and austerity? This panel will help shape following debates featuring Jeremy Hunt (Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport), Mark Thompson (Director-General of the BBC) and more. 2-8 Stepember. http://debate.futureeverything.org --------------------- --------------------- Aaron Koblin and Takashi Kawashima, Ten Thousand Cents Artwork "Ten Thousand Cents" is a digital artwork in which a representation of a $100 bill is drawn by thousands of individuals working in isolation from one another paid one cent each via Amazon's Mechanical Turk. 8 September, 18:00-23:00. Roundhouse London. http://debate.futureeverything.org --------------------- --------------------- Media Festival Arts FutureEverything has been invited to run elements of Media Festival Arts. The Media Festival Arts brings the arts, film and media industries together to discuss potential for commercial and creative collaboration in the digital sphere. 2-8 Stepember. Roundhouse London. http://themediafestivalarts.com --------------------- --------------------- Friends of FutureEverything: Playful is coming soon Playful is a one-day event all about games and play - for architects, artists, designers, developers, geeks, gurus, gamers, tinkerers, thinkerers, bloggers, joggers, and philosophers. Friends of FutureEverything get ¬£10 off at http://playful10.eventbrite.com by entering '2theFuture'. 24 September. Conway Hall London. http://thisisplayful.com --------------------- --------------------- More FutureEverything News FutureEverything now announces exciting opportunities for artists and professionals including the opening of entries for our major international award and a number of new jobs on the FutureEverything team. Info http://futureeverything.org FutureEverything 2011 takes place in Manchester England on 11-14 May 2011. FutureEverything is supported by Arts Council England, Manchester City Council, Paul Hamlyn Foundation, ImaginationLancaster, Lancaster University and the European Union within the CULTURE PROGRAMME (2007-2013). http://futureeverything.org From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Fri Sep 3 22:43:35 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 10:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <923321.3829.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello Mr.Sanjay Kak,       This is not an excellent piece, your view is totally dumb and let nitasha kaul know that her view in incorrect.  There are kings,scholors,temples contributed to INDIANNESS.  I feel you should have a look at RAJATARANGINI for the record.  The population who ever are there shouting somuch in J&K are from recent past not ageold.  With this poor history   no one can say what is Integral part of INDIA and what is not. MAYURA, BANA, HARSHAVARDHANA and many more who ever contributed to INDIA.  In particular MAYURA analyzed the sun in such a way that the kind of rays that the sun emit, their color,their wavelength, their hue etc and got his eye sight. SUN appeared to him and gave the vision once he finished this 100 stanza shatak.    Who ever study the particular stanzas will get the lost eyesight.  This is not million year history but just recent.  Fortunately that book and the shlokas din't ruined either in NALANDA or anywhere by a,b,c,d.  It is there everywhere in INDIA and it is referred so much.  The question of CHINA doesn't appear when it comes to J&K, because they don't know anything about India until Hsüan-tsang made a visit.  Next PAKISTAN a seperate country was created for the selfish JINNAH based on his 2 nation theory. By fearing violence Mr.Gandhi accepted it and since last 60 years there have been troubles. No question of PAKISTANI  claiming on occupied territories of J&K will arise, as the country itself  created by INDIA.  Who ever say whatever J&K is Integral part of INDIA and no body can comment or question.  Dear Sanjay Kak you are free to settle in PAKISTAN along with Nitasha kaul(if they allow) and likewise the seperatists.           Srinagar may or may not be shifted but it is there. The description is 1) as per LALITA SAHASRANAM(1000 names of lalita) from BRAHMADA PURANA let me bring you a verse describing godess LALITA DEVI  who used to stay in SRIPURA(srinagar).  The architect was VISWAKARMA and the description is       " Sumeru madhya srungastha Srimannagara nayika. "                       Mount Meru has 4 peaks One on the eastern side, one on north west, one on the south west. Each is 100 yojanas tall and 100 yojanas wide these are trimurtis worlds. In the center of these is the fourth, which is 400 yojanas tall and 400 yojanas wide. Sripura(srinagar) is on the Middle peak. Sripura has got metallic compound walls 7 in number they are square shaped. Each wall is separated from the next one by one a distance of 7 yojanas.    a.Kalayasa (iron) wall – The perimeter of this wall is 16 thousand yojanas. Kansya (bronze) wall—Between these two is the first chamber. Several trees and gardens are located here. Mahakali and Mahakala are the gate keepers here. Kalachakra is their throne.   b. Tamra (copper) wall - Here is a forest of Kalpavruksha (wish granting tree). This is also called as Kalpavatica. This is the second chamber. Vasanta (spring) is its protector .Madhusri and Madhavasri are his consorts.   c.Seesa (lead) wall - Here is a forest of santana trees (progeny granting). This is the third chamber Grishma (summer) is the ruler . Shukrasri and Shuchisri are his consorts.   d. Aarkuta (brass) wall - This is the fourth chamber. Here is a forest of Hari chandanavruksha (yellow fragrant sandal wood). The ruler is varsharutu (rainy season. Nabhasri and Nabhasyasri are his consorts.   e. Panchaloha (five metal) wall—In this fifth chamber is a garden of mandara trees(Calotropis gigantea).Sharadrutu is the protector. Ishasri and Urjasri are his consorts.   f.Raupya (silver) wall – Sixth chamber.Parijata tree forest .Hemantarutu is the protector. Sahasri and Sahasyasri are his consorts.   g.Hema (gold) wall - Seventh chamber. Kadamba forest. Sisira (winter) s the protector. Tavasri and Tavasyasri are his consorts. This is where Mantrini devi resides in a temple. She has one more quarter very close to that of Lalita devi in Mahapadmatavi( forest of lotuses). When she is on duty she stays in that quarter. In this seventh chamber near Mantrini’s residence Matanga kanyas are constantly singing and dancing. Inside the golden compound, there are eleven prakaras (compounds) one inside the other and inside them there are six more compounds described hereunder. All these compounds are perfect squares. Here also, the distance between one compound and the other is Seven yojanas. (yojana is a measurement of length of about nine miles). 1. Pushyaraga Prakara (The compound of Topaz) The area between the golden compound and this one is called Pushyaraga area. Here male and female Siddhas reside. Those who were born earlier in the race of Siddha and who obtained attainment (Siddhi) in their spiritual practices worshipping the Divine Mother, stay here as Siddhas and gladly continue to worship Her. 2. Padmaraga Prakara (The compound of Ruby) Here celestials of the species called Caranas reside. Those who were born in Carana world and worshipped the Mother are reborn here, after attaining Her grace. 3. Gomedhika Prakara (The compound of Agate) In this arena, Kala Sankarshani devi resides. She is worshipped by the Yoginis and Bhairavas. 4. Vajra Prakara (The compound of diamonds) Apsaras and Gandharvas (divine dancers and singers) stay in this arena. They are ever engaged in the Japa (repetition) of the Divine Mother’s names and stay here happily. The river Vajranadi flows in this place. The Goddess Vajreswari stays here. When the demon Bhanda swallowed the diamond weapon (Vajra Ayudha) of Indra, he could get back his weapon by worshipping the Mother here. 5. Vaidurya Prakara (The compound of Cat’s eye) Those of the netherworld, who attained spiritual achievements by worshipping the Mother, stay in this arena. The emperor Bali also resides here. 6. Indraneela Prakara (The compound of Sapphire) Those people who were born on the earth stay in this area enjoying pleasures, after their worship of Lalita during their lifetime there. Soon after the effect of their punya (merit) is exhausted, they will be born again as human beings on the earth. By the effect of their previous pious deeds, they again worship the Mother and return once more to this pious place. Due to the blue colour of these precious stones, the dark effect of likes and dislikes persists in them. Hence they are born again and again. Those who can control their senses to merge in the ultimate state of salvation, i.e., in the Divine Mother. They do not have rebirth. 7. Mukta Prakara (The compound of pearls) Several rivers named Tamraparni, Mahaparni, Sadamukta, Sadodaka etc. flow in this area. The celestials who worshipped the Mother and chanted her Mantras stay here. The cities of the rulers of the eight sides exist here. (The eight sides are East, West, North, South, North-East, South-East, North-West and South-West). 8. Marakata Prakara (The compound of Emerald) The abode of the Goddess Dandanatha also called Varahi exists in this area. There is a garden of golden palm-trees here. The Goddess Unmattabhairavi, Svapnesvari, Tiraskarinidevi, Kirapadadevi reside in this area. When Goddess Dandanatha is on duty, she stays in a separate palace in the forest of Mahapadma (Big lotuses). 9. Vidruma Prakara (The compound of Coral) In this area, Brahma along with sages like Marica stays and worship the DivineMother. 10.Manikya Prakara (The compound of Gem) This area is also called the hall of gems i.e. Manikya Mantapa. Her Vishnu worships the Mother. 11. Navaratna Prakara (The compound of nine precious stones) In this area exists a huge hall with thousands of pillars. Here Siva along with his attendants constantly supervises the activities being done as per the orders of Lalita Devi. 12. Manomaya Prakara (The compound of mind) The entire area is a big well of Amruta (nectar). The Goddess Tara resides here. Along with her attendants, she rows a big boat and takes her devotees inside along with Her. 13. Buddhi Prakara (The compound of the intellect) The entire area is a big well of Bliss. The captain of the ship in this arena is the Goddess Varuni. She is also called as Sudha malini and Amruteswari. 14. Ahankara Prakara (The compound of Egoism) The entire area is a big well of criticism and nectar; The water of this well is nothing else than the nectar in the nerve Sushumna (The central nerve between Ida and Pingala nerves of one’s backbone). The captain of the ship in this area is the Goddess Kurukulla. 15. Suryabimba Prakara (The compound of the Sun) Here brilliance comparable to the light of the rising Sun exists always. Plenty of flowers called Kuruvinda are abundant here. The Sun performed penance here and obtained brilliance. Martanda Bhairava stays here. He has a very luminous form. His three wives are Mahaprakasa Sakti, Cakshusmati Sakti and Chayada Sakti (The powers of great brilliance, eyesight and shade). 16. Candrabimba Prakasa (The compound of the Moon) Moonshine ever exists here. The Moon performed penance here and attained illumination. Somanatha, the Lord of the stars is the chief deity of this area. 17. Srungara Prakara (The compound of eroticism) This area is full of waters of eroticism. Here Manmatha, (Cupid-the god of love) does Japa of the Mother’s sacred names, rowing in a boat. Only those who are of pure mind by nature can cross this area. 18. Chintamani Gruha (The abode of Gems) This is the great palace of Sri-chakra. It is called Mahapadmatavi also. Around the mansion, hundreds of thousands of lotus like palaces exist. To the east of this place, there is a large vessel with a diameter of one Yojana. This is called Arghya Patra (the vessel used to wash hands) b) At the south-east corner exists Cidagnikunda (The fire pit of knowledge). At the south-west exists Srichakra Ratha, the vehicle of Srichakra. At the north-west exists the Geya Chakra Ratha of the Goddess Mantrini. At the north-east exists the Kiri Chakra Ratha of the Goddess Dandini. In between the East and the south-east exists Mantrini gruha - the abode of the Goddess Mantrini. In between the East and the north-east exists Dandini gruha – the abode of the Goddess Dandini. The Chintamani palace: 1. This palace is centrally located in Sripattana – The City of Sri (Wealth). 2. The walls of the palace are built with Chintamani gems. 3. The roof also is made of the same stones of Chintamani. 4. The palace has three towers by names Iccha Sikhara, Kriya Sikhara and Jnana Sikhara i.e. the towers of desire, action and knowledge. 5. The palace has four doors. They are called Amnaya devas. They are Purva, Dakshina, Pascima and Uttara – Amnaya devas (on the East, South, West and North sides). Amnaya means Veda. 6. Bindu Peetha (central seat of power) is centrally located in the palace. 7. This seat of power (peetha) has steps on four sides. 8. The entire structure described above is of the design of Srichakra. 9. All the male and female deities of Srichakra reside here. 10.The Bindu Peetha is called Sri Peetha, Maha Peetha, Vidya Peetha andAnanda Peetha also (The seat of prosperity, greatness, knowledge andbliss). 11.On the pedastal exists the cot of the five brahmas. 12.The cot has four legs namely Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesana and Iswara. These four deities have attained female form by worshipping Mother. 13.The plank resting on these legs is Sadasiva. 14.To the east of this cot, there are 36 steps, representing the 36 aspects of spiritualism. 15.There is a foot-rest in front of the cot. 16.There is swan like bed on the cot. 17.On the cot, there are two pillows for the head and one pillow for the legs. 18.A light red blanket is spread on the bed. 19.The Lord Kameswara sits on the cot facing the East. He is ever in the form of a sixteen year old boy. He has four hands and three eyes. He wears erotic costumes. 20.On His lap sits Lalita Devi. She is ever in the form of a sixteen year old girl. Her complexion is rosy. She wears erotic costumes. She has four hands. Her decoration is the moon. 21.As she pleases Sadasiva, she is called Lalita (Lalana - to please) Siva Kameswarankastha Siva Svadheena Vallabha Sumeru madhya srungastha Srimannagara nayika. Chintamani gruhantastha Panca Brahmasana sthita. Maha Padmatavi samstha Kadamba vana vasini Sudha sagara madhyastha Kamakshi Kamadayini The above names in the Lalita Sahasra nama indicate the Srinaara, the Chintamani gruha (the palace of the Mother) and her other divine aspects described above. The Mother incarnated to kill the demon Bhanda. She is the Supreme Mother as per these divine names, will achieve everything auspicious.   Regards, Dhatri. --- On Thu, 9/2/10, Sanjay Kak wrote: From: Sanjay Kak Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul To: "Sarai Reader List" Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 10:00 PM One of the exciting developments of this summer has been the explosion of writing on Kashmir: along with the stones, we have been showered with new voices. In place of the conditioned blather that we in India have grown up with, there is a wide range of new positions and approaches. I'm posting this excellent piece by Nitasha Kaul, writer (and economist). Since its long, I'm prefacing it with two excerpts. Just to whet your appetite... Best Sanjay Kak ------------------------------ "Kashmir is not an ‘integral’ part of India. It is a disputed integral, in fact, as I have argued, the Indian attitude to Kashmir can only be understood in the wider context of the failed political, economic, and social promises of post-colonial India. In the name of ‘national integration’, India is occupying a region against the will of the people who live there. Kashmir is ‘integral’ only to the life of Kashmiris.... ------------------------------- From shahzulf at yahoo.com Fri Sep 3 23:24:48 2010 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 10:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Flood Disaster in Sindh: Damages, Needs and Issues Message-ID: <738078.41799.qm@web38806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Consultative Workshop   Flood Disaster in Sindh: Damages, Needs and Issues   The Institute for Social Movements, Pakistan (ISM) and Strengthening Participatory Organization (SPO) in collaboration with UNDP SDPD are organizing   a consultative workshop “Flood Disaster in Sindh: Damages, Issues and Needs” on September 6, 2010, 2:30 PM at Hotel Indus, Hyderabad. You are invited to participate in the event.   Mustafa Baloch (SPO) Zulfiqar Shah (ISM)   From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Sat Sep 4 11:05:34 2010 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 22:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?b?Rnc6IOKIrlFBTeKIriBRdWVlciBBemFhZGkgTXVt?= =?utf-8?q?bai_-Pride_2011-Be_a_Part_of_the_Organising?= Message-ID: <822498.18690.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> to all queer-identified, come get involved.... Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/meterdown ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Pallav To: queerazadimumbai at googlegroups.com; gay_bombay at yahoogroups.com; gaybombay at yahoogroups.com; bombaydost2009 at gmail.com; bombay-dost at yahoogroups.com; lgbt-india at yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 2 September, 2010 11:02:33 PM Subject: ∮QAM∮ Queer Azaadi Mumbai -Pride 2011-Be a Part of the Organising Queer Azaadi Mumbai 2011 Queer Mumbai marches in January 2011 : Now is the time for you to get involved Dear members of the queer community, Many of us have been pondering when the next pride march is being held in Mumbai, while others are confused whether the 2nd July event this year at Azaad Maidaan celebrating the first anniversary of Section 377 being read down was actually a Pride march. Not only will this mail answer those queries but it will also share ways and means of contributing to the success of the next Pride march.Yes, the good news is that QAM has begun planning Pride 2011 for the final weekend of January, which means that right from fund raising to organising, invitations to permissions, all the activity is about to begin. So if you want to contribute in any way to the Mumbai pride event of 2011, be it by sharing your views, volunteering time, helping with any aspect of organisation, or just spreading the word, this is the time to give the Pride parade the shape that you desire by joining QAM mailing list. This is your event. Right from happily gathering and walking on Mumbai's roads with friends and family to ensuring your concerns are addressed and the platform of Pride is used to extend key messages of the community to the larger audience, it is the voice of each queer individual from Mumbai that the QAM stands for. What is QAM? QAM (Queer Azaadi March) is a collective of individuals and organisations in Mumbai which is involved in the fund-raising and execution of the Pride march. As a community collective, QAM is open to all queer individuals irrespective of your city, nationality, caste, colour and creed. Why 2011? Traditionally Mumbai marched on 16th August, which for the last two years fell on a weekend. This year, bearing in mind that 16th August 2010 was a Monday, the march was postponed to a later date to ensure maximum community participation. In the new political and social environment surrounding Section 377 post 2nd July 2009 and decriminalisation QAM as a collective felt the need henceforth to peg Pride march to Republic Day on 26th January. Henceforth the Mumbai Pride March will be held on the 1st weekend after 26th January. Why the mailing list? Since there are more than 100 QAM members, and the number is only likely to increase, the mode of communication is mainly through an e-list wherein every member of the community is free to express his opinion and be kept in the loop about the various happenings at QAM. A mailing list helps offers the convenience of emails that can be accessed in your own time, as well as offering a forum for the opinion of each e-list member. Decision making is however restricted to QAM meetings where individuals meet to firm up organisational decisions. In order to be kept abreast with other such events, share your opinions, concerns and to keep updated about QAM news, QAM invites all community members to be part of its e-list. How does the QAM e-list work? The e-list will give details about organising QAM as well as information on meeting agendas and venues. Depending on your interest and involvement, you can choose from the various modes of message delivery. Individuals are free to attend QAM meetings and be part of the organising as long as you are queer-identified. How can I become part of this e-list? Please indicate your interest in being a part of the QAM 2011 organising by sending a mail to thequeerazaadimumbai at gmail.com. We will accordingly send you an invitation to join the e-list. Existing QAM E list members can also add their friends to the list through the e-list home page. QAM invites the community to be part of organising our key 2011 community initiative. Pride 2011, here we come! -- "To know more about Queer Azadi, click the link below" http://queerazaadi.wordpress.com From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 12:51:27 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 12:51:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chouk Tshoont te Wangan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chouk Tshoont Te Wangan ( sour apples and brinjals ) For S Cook tonight few Majarej Apples with Brinjals, You may know, these days how nostalgic i am about my past in Kashmir. They are round, with red on cheeks. But look-wise they are simply 'countryside'. A simple bite would paint your teeth, with a thick layer of iron compound. That is raw, but if coocked, it is different.  A 'maharaej' is still there in each orchard, But like a scheduled caste, usually offered to cows, if production exceeds.. Elite vendors, you know dont let them sit next to 'Delishun', 'glas' or 'toung' 'Delishun' is grafted, but now it is fully Kashmiri, so is the sound Maharej, although a little unkashmiri, but quite embeded in the vernacular. Well whatever the storey of  both, I like Mahareaj, the sour one,  which my mother once cooked with brinjals: Chouk Tshoont  with Brinjal:  Ah, that taste with hot rice. She never peeled while slicing them, and i often asked for more, and she would gladly fill my 'thal' with more. In Delhi, i saw Majarej only once, that too on a raede, near seemapuri slum . I instantly bought 5 Kgs in one go, and offerend few of them to those who merit Majareaj over other sugary ones. Never mind, if you fail to find a sour one, to coock them with a brinjals for a kashmiri meal in your home. Just wish me back in kashmir to buy few for you. They are quite travel resistant and dont decay for long if stored at room temp ....................................................... Some words with meaning: Mahjaraj= name of the sour apple, chouk =sour,  tshoot= apples delishun = deliscious sweet apple. glas= cherry Toung= pear thal= plate. raede = cart on four wheels, . -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sat Sep 4 18:38:39 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 06:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Chouk Tshoont te Wangan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <780653.52154.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Inder, I remember Tsok tsoont very well. I used to climb a tree as a child, take mirchi and salt along with me and eat them right there! It is a sensation that makes your mind come fully alive in an instant. Never tried to cook wangan and sour apples though. Thank you for the recipe. Unfortunately people at home have cut down the 'low grade maharaji apple tree' apparently to stop shedding and the curse of having to rake leaves from the lawn. I really miss the tree and the shocking flavor of its massive hard green apples. Interestingly the apple used to be a hit with the kids and often disliked by the adults exactly like snowfall. They used to say don't eat too many or you will get 'Kaambal', don't have an English word for that disease nor do i know exactly what it means. Sounded scary enough to act as a temporary deterrent though. Also I wonder why the name maharaji was ascribed to the apple? Did he like them too or was he responsible for bringing the variety to Kashmir or was the name given to the 'low grade apple' to cheekily lampoon him? --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Inder Salim wrote: > From: Inder Salim > Subject: [Reader-list] Chouk Tshoont te Wangan > To: "reader-list" > Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 12:51 PM > Chouk Tshoont Te Wangan > ( sour apples and brinjals ) >                 >              For S > > Cook tonight few Majarej Apples with Brinjals, > You may know, these days > how nostalgic i am about my past in Kashmir. > > They are round, with red on cheeks. > But look-wise they are simply 'countryside'. > A simple bite would paint your teeth, > with a thick layer of iron compound. > That is raw, but if coocked, it is different. > >  A 'maharaej' is still there in each orchard, > But like a scheduled caste, usually > offered to cows, if production exceeds.. > Elite vendors, you know dont > let them sit next to 'Delishun', 'glas' or 'toung' > > 'Delishun' is grafted, but now it is fully Kashmiri, > so is the sound Maharej, although a little unkashmiri, > but quite embeded in the vernacular. Well > whatever the storey of  both, > I like Mahareaj, the sour one, >  which my mother once cooked with brinjals: > > Chouk Tshoont  with Brinjal: >  Ah, that taste with hot rice. > She never peeled while slicing them, > and i often asked for more, and she would > gladly fill my 'thal' with more. > > In Delhi, i saw Majarej only once, that too > on a raede, near seemapuri slum . > I instantly bought 5 Kgs in one go, > and offerend few of them to those who > merit Majareaj over other sugary ones. > > Never mind, if you fail to find a sour one, > to coock them with a brinjals > for a kashmiri meal in your home. > Just wish me back in kashmir > to buy few for you. > They are quite travel resistant > and dont decay for long if stored at room temp > > ....................................................... > Some words with meaning: > > Mahjaraj= name of the sour apple, > chouk =sour, >  tshoot= apples > delishun = deliscious sweet apple. > glas= cherry > Toung= pear > thal= plate. > raede = cart on four wheels, > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 21:52:10 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 21:52:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul In-Reply-To: <923321.3829.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <923321.3829.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 10:43 PM, we wi wrote: > > MAYURA, BANA, HARSHAVARDHANA and many more who ever contributed to INDIA.  In particular MAYURA analyzed the sun in such a way that the kind of rays that the sun emit, their color,their wavelength, their hue etc and got his eye sight. SUN appeared to him and gave the vision once he finished this 100 stanza shatak.    Who ever study the particular stanzas will get the lost eyesight.  This is not million year history but just recent.  Fortunately that book and the shlokas din't ruined either in NALANDA or anywhere by a,b,c,d.  It is there everywhere in INDIA and it is referred so much.  The question of CHINA doesn't appear when it comes to J&K, because they don't know anything about India until Hsüan-tsang made a visit.  Next PAKISTAN a seperate country was created for the selfish JINNAH based on his 2 nation theory. By fearing violence Mr.Gandhi accepted it and since last 60 years there have been troubles. No question of PAKISTANI  claiming on >  occupied territories of J&K will arise, as the country itself  created by INDIA.  Who ever say whatever J&K is Integral part of INDIA and no body can comment or question.  Dear Sanjay Kak you are free to settle in PAKISTAN along with Nitasha kaul(if they allow) and likewise the seperatists. > >          Srinagar may or may not be shifted but it is there. The description is > > 1) as per LALITA SAHASRANAM(1000 names of lalita) from BRAHMADA PURANA let me bring you a verse describing godess LALITA DEVI  who used to stay in SRIPURA(srinagar).  The architect was VISWAKARMA and the description is > >       " Sumeru madhya srungastha > Srimannagara nayika. " etc See Saklatvala's 1930 article: http://www.marxists.org/archive/saklatvala/1930/07/gandhi.htm Gandhi was promoted by the British to counter militancy in the Indian freedom movement. The dominant capitalist forces simply changed their appearance after independence. The happenings in post colonial India clearly shows that nationhood is a very shallow concept and is of very limited value in controlling big capitalists. Slokas were originally developed to drive wild animals (and possibly mosquito) away. Nonsensical meaning laden mumbo jumbo and tall tales were composed later by a section of brahmins to fool the others into virtual slavery. Many of the Kings in connivance with sections of the brahmins (big gangsters or goons) used the scriptures and vedic texts to route all of the people's discontent to nonexistent Gods. A massive collection of materialist texts not conforming to the nonsense of Vedas were almost certainly destroyed by these forces. Irrespective of this history, how does it matter if some of those goons had conquered Kashmir at some point of time? Your reading of history is also reminiscent of the literary works of Rajaram - the Onager who saw horses in his dreams. Internet porn has progressed far beyond points 19, 20 mentioned by you. Anyway, why should anybody be concerned by the spouting of sycophants of kings and lunatics, when the problem is about basic livelihood, material necessities and unending exploitation? Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 00:01:19 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 00:01:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chouk Tshoont te Wangan In-Reply-To: <780653.52154.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <780653.52154.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks dear so many other details of my childhood and beyond possess me sometimes like a ghost. i am perhaps, not too interested to know the historicity of details which are running inside me veins... they are there and hardly desire any references,,, expression about them is because of lack... I believe, we are already living in a porridge like situation, so what is good and bad, speaking conventionally, knowledge of things hardly changes the situation... memories are very profound.... besides that, i see of course, kashur wazwan, quite popular, but that is just for them, ( THEM ) but for me, simple hakh and bate, some pudne chatine with curd is something very fundamental to my idea of kasheer. It is not about vegetarianism, but about something which sustains me, once in a blue moon, if there is a goshaab/matchigand/roganjosh , it is wonderful, but for daily consumption, i would eat thok tshoont te wangun instead of a regular wazawan. with love is On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 6:38 PM, gowhar fazli wrote: > Dear Inder, > > I remember Tsok tsoont very well.  I used to climb a tree as a child, take mirchi and salt along with me and eat them right there!  It is a sensation that makes your mind come fully alive in an instant.  Never tried to cook wangan and sour apples though.  Thank you for the recipe.  Unfortunately people at home have cut down the 'low grade maharaji apple tree' apparently to stop shedding and the curse of having to rake leaves from the lawn.  I really miss the tree and the shocking flavor of its massive hard green apples. > > Interestingly the apple used to be a hit with the kids and often disliked by the adults exactly like snowfall. They used to say don't eat too many or you will get 'Kaambal', don't have an English word for that disease nor do i know exactly what it means.  Sounded scary enough to act as a temporary deterrent  though. > > Also I wonder why the name maharaji was ascribed to the apple?  Did he like them too or was he responsible for bringing the variety to Kashmir or was the name given to the 'low grade apple' to cheekily lampoon him? > > --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Inder Salim wrote: > >> From: Inder Salim >> Subject: [Reader-list] Chouk Tshoont te Wangan >> To: "reader-list" >> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 12:51 PM >> Chouk Tshoont Te Wangan >> ( sour apples and brinjals ) >> >>              For S >> >> Cook tonight few Majarej Apples with Brinjals, >> You may know, these days >> how nostalgic i am about my past in Kashmir. >> >> They are round, with red on cheeks. >> But look-wise they are simply 'countryside'. >> A simple bite would paint your teeth, >> with a thick layer of iron compound. >> That is raw, but if coocked, it is different. >> >>  A 'maharaej' is still there in each orchard, >> But like a scheduled caste, usually >> offered to cows, if production exceeds.. >> Elite vendors, you know dont >> let them sit next to 'Delishun', 'glas' or 'toung' >> >> 'Delishun' is grafted, but now it is fully Kashmiri, >> so is the sound Maharej, although a little unkashmiri, >> but quite embeded in the vernacular. Well >> whatever the storey of  both, >> I like Mahareaj, the sour one, >>  which my mother once cooked with brinjals: >> >> Chouk Tshoont  with Brinjal: >>  Ah, that taste with hot rice. >> She never peeled while slicing them, >> and i often asked for more, and she would >> gladly fill my 'thal' with more. >> >> In Delhi, i saw Majarej only once, that too >> on a raede, near seemapuri slum . >> I instantly bought 5 Kgs in one go, >> and offerend few of them to those who >> merit Majareaj over other sugary ones. >> >> Never mind, if you fail to find a sour one, >> to coock them with a brinjals >>  for a kashmiri meal in your home. >> Just wish me back in kashmir >> to buy few for you. >> They are quite travel resistant >> and dont decay for long if stored at room temp >> >> ....................................................... >> Some words with meaning: >> >> Mahjaraj= name of the sour apple, >> chouk =sour, >>  tshoot= apples >> delishun = deliscious sweet apple. >> glas= cherry >> Toung= pear >> thal= plate. >> raede = cart on four wheels, >> >> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Sun Sep 5 18:16:24 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 05:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <620350.64398.qm@web45512.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Mani,             I don't wish to quote full meaning of lalita sahasra nama composed with existing things(for example Sougandhika flower which is available in Himalayas only like wise many) to satisfy your ego or anybody.          FYI the points are not written by myself but it is the in depth meaning of that verse in Vedas.  Vedas are not written by anybody.  I pity for your poor understanding and ignorance. I quoted to bring it to the public notice about the  presence of Srinagar/sripura ,its importance and linkage with rest of the country called INDIA. I wrote the mail about the actual people lived from time immemorial to MAYURA to Pandits and their contribution to the society for its growth. I am unwilling to comment on your belief about anything not just with gods,faith or Brahmin's but would like to condemn your statement fully.  If you are unable to know/practice something doesn't mean that it is non existent.    You should know the difference between "KAMA","SRINGARA","MIDHUNA" as they are different forms( say characteristics based on one after the other)  of sexual desire. Particularly "SRINGARA" is a science better to say and is one among the 9 feelings. Request you not to write in "VISRUNKHALA" .  Misconceptions about anything is nothing to do with reality.  Like INDIA,GANGES,YOGA(as you are following seriously for your sake and enjoying the benefits) exists and running so as SUMERU,SRINAGAR,CHINTAMANI HOUSE, GODS exists.   --- On Sat, 9/4/10, A. Mani wrote: From: A. Mani Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul To: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 9:52 PM On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 10:43 PM, we wi wrote: > > MAYURA, BANA, HARSHAVARDHANA and many more who ever contributed to INDIA.  In particular MAYURA analyzed the sun in such a way that the kind of rays that the sun emit, their color,their wavelength, their hue etc and got his eye sight. SUN appeared to him and gave the vision once he finished this 100 stanza shatak.    Who ever study the particular stanzas will get the lost eyesight.  This is not million year history but just recent.  Fortunately that book and the shlokas din't ruined either in NALANDA or anywhere by a,b,c,d.  It is there everywhere in INDIA and it is referred so much.  The question of CHINA doesn't appear when it comes to J&K, because they don't know anything about India until Hsüan-tsang made a visit.  Next PAKISTAN a seperate country was created for the selfish JINNAH based on his 2 nation theory. By fearing violence Mr.Gandhi accepted it and since last 60 years there have been troubles. No question of PAKISTANI  claiming on >  occupied territories of J&K will arise, as the country itself  created by INDIA.  Who ever say whatever J&K is Integral part of INDIA and no body can comment or question.  Dear Sanjay Kak you are free to settle in PAKISTAN along with Nitasha kaul(if they allow) and likewise the seperatists. > >          Srinagar may or may not be shifted but it is there. The description is > > 1) as per LALITA SAHASRANAM(1000 names of lalita) from BRAHMADA PURANA let me bring you a verse describing godess LALITA DEVI  who used to stay in SRIPURA(srinagar).  The architect was VISWAKARMA and the description is > >       " Sumeru madhya srungastha > Srimannagara nayika. " etc See Saklatvala's 1930 article: http://www.marxists.org/archive/saklatvala/1930/07/gandhi.htm Gandhi was promoted by the British to counter militancy in the Indian freedom movement. The dominant capitalist forces simply changed their appearance after independence. The happenings in post colonial India clearly shows that nationhood is a very shallow concept and is of very limited value in controlling big capitalists. Slokas were originally developed to drive wild animals (and possibly mosquito) away. Nonsensical meaning laden mumbo jumbo and tall tales were composed later by a section of brahmins to fool the others into virtual slavery. Many of the Kings in connivance with sections of the brahmins (big gangsters or goons) used the scriptures and vedic texts to route all of the people's discontent to nonexistent Gods. A massive collection of materialist texts not conforming to the  nonsense of Vedas were almost certainly destroyed by these forces. Irrespective of this history, how does it matter if some of those goons had conquered Kashmir at some point of time? Your reading of history is also reminiscent of the literary works of Rajaram - the Onager who saw horses in his dreams. Internet porn has progressed far beyond points 19, 20 mentioned by you. Anyway, why should anybody be concerned by the spouting of sycophants of kings and lunatics, when the problem is about basic livelihood, material necessities and unending exploitation? Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 5 21:08:35 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:08:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cb4d10$686dc170$39494450$@in> Nitasha Kaul says/writes, "The demand of the Kashmiri people is ‘Azaadi’. Freedom. Freedom to be themselves, to choose their national destiny. We are not Indians. We are Kashmiris. We have a history, a language, a culture that demands recognition." OK. If agreed that few Kashmiri demands as above written, than we have to divide state since except valley people Jammu and Ladakh will not agree for division and prefer to stay with India only. So, those believe for azadi agreed to divide the state first? If no than forget your demand and if yes then India will prefer to give full independent including financial aspect. No financial aid can be provided from India once the freedom is given. However, after azadi you are free to take aids from Pak, US or anyone if its suits you like Pak to remain bagger. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it is happen what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Sanjay Kak Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:01 PM To: Sarai Reader List Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir: a place of blood and memory" Nitasha Kaul One of the exciting developments of this summer has been the explosion of writing on Kashmir: along with the stones, we have been showered with new voices. In place of the conditioned blather that we in India have grown up with, there is a wide range of new positions and approaches. I'm posting this excellent piece by Nitasha Kaul, writer (and economist). Since its long, I'm prefacing it with two excerpts. Just to whet your appetite... Best Sanjay Kak ------------------------------ "Kashmir is not an ‘integral’ part of India. It is a disputed integral, in fact, as I have argued, the Indian attitude to Kashmir can only be understood in the wider context of the failed political, economic, and social promises of post-colonial India. In the name of ‘national integration’, India is occupying a region against the will of the people who live there. Kashmir is ‘integral’ only to the life of Kashmiris.... ------------------------------- "The demand of the Kashmiri people is ‘Azaadi’. Freedom. Freedom to be themselves, to choose their national destiny. We are not Indians. We are Kashmiris. We have a history, a language, a culture that demands recognition. Instead of recognising this gut-wrenching, existential cry of the Kashmiri people, the Indian state sends in more guns, more troops, more rolls of barbed wire, more bribes, more bullets. When this does not work and the Kashmiris scream ‘Go India Go’, they send in a battery of words – Development, Employment, Infrastructure, Laws, Training, Security, Curfew. The big words fall flat and disappear without trace between the folds of the pheran, in the wrinkles on the face, on the marks on the graves, and in the flow of Kashmiri blood. Here’s a valid question to ask Indian political leaders, bureaucrats, army chiefs, right-wing extremists, the ignorant layperson: Are you blind? Can you not see that we want a recognition of our identity as a people? Burn your Bollywood movies. Come to Kashmir. Walk through our cities. The bridges. The ruins. The graves. Look at what we eat. Look at our buildings. Our shrines. Our architecture. Our speech. Our history. Speak to us. See how we live. We are not you. We have never been you. We don’t want to be you." ------------------------------ http://www.opendemocracy.net/nitasha-kaul/kashmir-from-contact-zone-to-conflict-zone#comment-535383 Kashmir: a place of blood and memory Nitasha Kaul, 31 August 2010 In attempting to suffocate a separate Kashmiri identity, India reveals the cracks in its own idea of nationhood, argues Nitasha Kaul. About the author Dr Nitasha Kaul is an economist and a writer. When you try to locate the territory of Kashmir on a world map, you will find it partitioned into Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK, called ‘Azaad Kashmir’ and ‘Northern Areas’, in Pakistan), India Occupied Kashmir (IOK, called ‘Jammu and Kashmir’ including ‘Ladakh’, in India), and areas such as Aksai Chin and Shaksam Valley under Chinese control (part of ‘Xinjiang autonomous region’ in China).Partitioned Kashmir, courtesy of Wikimedia Yet, even as it is devoured by the big states that surround it, Kashmir cannot be understood through the simplistic framing of ‘India versus Pakistan’, ‘Hindu versus Muslim’, or ‘China allied with Pakistan versus India’. Instead, see Kashmir as a vital link in the Himalayan mountain chain; a historic part of the Silk Route, that is now a violent battleground. Why? Because people in none of these three regions identify themselves as primarily and ‘above all’ Pakistani, Indian, or Chinese. Neither should they be forced to. Cartography might lie, but topography and cultural geography does not. Kashmir is not India. Kashmir is not Pakistan. Kashmir is not China. Kashmir is the boundary zone of India-China-Pakistan. But it is distinctively Kashmir. And its people – whatever their religion or national identity – are Kashmiris. In the guise of crude nationalist narratives peddled by the surrounding post-colonial states for internal politicking and international leverage, their history is being stolen from the Kashmiri people. Wherever in Kashmir they are, their options boil down to bullets or ballots – bullets if they protest being co-opted into the big country which is not their homeland, and ballots if they agree to being co-opted into the big country which is not their homeland. How can a Kashmiri live under this perpetual erasure of his or her identity? The same way that every colonised people has survived through the ages: by interpretation and by insurrection. Interpretations enable a re-understanding of the identity choices available to a person, and insurrections allow a collectivity to challenge unjust dominance by force. In the last years, regions of the POK saw nationalist Kashmiri protests against Pakistan (for example, in Muzzafarabad in December 2009), and, at the moment, nationalist Kashmiris in IOK are witnessing a harsh repression at the hands of Indian security forces; on average a person a day has been killed in the last two months since June 2010, nearly half of them have been teenagers (my focus is IOK, in particular the ongoing brutality in the Kashmir Valley, and the various erasures of blood and memory that surround it). Some in IOK give rallying cries in support of POK (‘Muzzafarabad Chalo’), and in turn others in POK warn that they will cross over to ‘help their brothers in IOK’. Moreover, even during periods of so-called ‘normalcy’, people in both POK (some being Shia ethnic minority in Sunni-majority areas) and in IOK (being a Muslim majority region in a Hindu-majority India) often live with severe restrictions on their freedom and face multiple levels of discrimination. No wonder Kashmiris who live under occupation feel a solidarity for their kind across the boundary lines. The story of the mountain-peoples of Eurasia is, by and large, a tragedy. Run your index finger on the multi-coloured land surface of a modern day political world map, and you will see how many ‘problem areas’ (some states, some sub-state entities, some overlapping zones of displaced peoples) – Tibet, Kashmir, North Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – were thriving zones of contact between diverse communities that traded goods and exchanged ideas along the arteries of the ‘Silk Route’. Like many of these other places, Kashmir, a Himalayan zone of contact between diverse peoples in history, has become a zone of conflict, due in large measure to modern boundary-making processes which evolved to accommodate economic privileges and political trade-offs with rivals that were necessary for European (especially British) colonisation of the region. Genesis of the ‘Mandarin-Machiavelli interaction’ Empires of the ancient world had a fluid notion of boundaries. In parts of the Himalayas especially, there were multiple systems of power transmission – these ranged from marriages to tributes to reincarnations. The idea of people owing an overarching allegiance to a national identity (over religious, ethnic or other forms of affiliation) is a relatively modern construct. The British Empire in south Asia was nitpicky and dissonant, it was an empire run by a democracy, that expanded by median diplomacy, strategic but grounded thinking, conceptual reconstruction, and accounting, as much as it did by force. Unlike the earlier rulers who came from central Asia, the British operated primarily on the dual bases of economic rationality and assumed moral superiority. They often drew lines on maps opportunistically, and in time, these ‘boundaries’ would get transformed into ‘frontiers’. In the case of the Himalayan mountains, the British never saw much advantage in direct control (they calculated that the administrative, policing, transportation costs were too high and the returns not worthwhile when compared to the fertile and bustling plains) and preferred, instead, to follow a stated policy of “controlling the hills from the plains”. In order to do this, the administration at the centre needed to depend on local elites in the peripheral regions. So, the system was set up during colonial times – the bureaucrats at the centre would be the administrators and policy makers and they would cultivate local aristocratic, political and business elites in the peripheral regions. Often, they would patronise rival elites in a peripheral region and ‘activate’ their influence as and when required. In the middle of the twentieth century when the British formally left, the post-colonial Asian states inherited this mindset and this system of governance. To this day, the Indian state manages its peripheries in this way. Both Kashmir and the ‘North-East’ are examples. Why does this matter? Because it sets up structures of power and responsibility that do not overlap meaningfully. The bureaucrats and politicians at the centre do not have direct interaction with the regions; their interest is only to have a ‘reliable’ power base in the periphery. Equally, the local elites in the periphery exaggerate reports of their influence over ‘their’ people in order to gain maximum advantage from the centre. This pattern of (what I would call) Mandarin-Machiavelli interaction has characterised the relationship of India with Kashmir (or rather of New Delhi with Srinagar). Neither the centre nor the periphery has any interest in being genuinely concerned about the people in whose name they wield power and exercise authority. What is more, in such a scenario, there is enormous potential of corruption as long as it doesn’t harm the ruling interests of both ends of the chain, and any dissent will only be tolerated if it can be channeled for political gains. Otherwise, those dissenting or seeking change will be punished and brutalised. This is exactly what is happening in IOK today. Kashmir as India’s disputed ‘integral' IOK (‘India occupied Kashmir’, called ‘Jammu and Kashmir’, including ‘Ladakh’, in India) has never been an indisputable part of India. Paradoxically, presenting this historical fact invariably causes most Indians to assert even more vigorously that Kashmir is an ‘integral’ part of India. Why? Why is Kashmir so fundamental to the Indian psyche? The average Indian insists that Kashmir is an indisputable part of India to be held by force when necessary in the same way that the Indian state insists that Kashmir is an ‘integral’ part of India while occupying it by military means. Indians and the Indian state find it necessary to repeatedly state this because they know that Kashmir is not actually an indisputable part of India and this galls them. It is no coincidence that Kashmir and the North-East were two of the least involved regions during the nationalist freedom struggle which led to India’s independence, and it is these regions which have remained least understood in the mainstream nationalist imagination. In Kashmir, for example, in the 1930s and 1940s, it was the Kashmiri Nationalists (led by Sheikh Abdullah) and the Kashmiri Communists (both Hindu and Muslim) who shaped the pre-1947 political landscape by their opposition to princely rule (of the unrepresentative Dogra monarch); integration with India was an ‘unintended consequence’ of their progressivist leanings. With time, their faith in India was rudely jolted – independent India came to fear two things most – Muslims and communists (Kashmir had both). This way Kashmir is viewed in the mainstream Indian imagination is linked to the wider evolution of Indian self-perception in the decades after independence and more specifically to the quantum shift in the political and economic structure of Indian society in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The Indian nation that had been born (from a partition) with idealistic anti-colonial promises saw its first national event in the assassination of its biggest moral voice – Mahatma Gandhi – at the hands of a Hindu fanatical extremist. The successive decades saw an undoing of the social, political, economic, and moral ideals which had motivated the people in their anti-colonial independence struggle. The two biggest, and significantly reactionary, transformations that India has seen since its independence became most visible in the late 1980s and early 1990s – the rise of economic and religious fundamentalism – neo-liberalism and Hindutva. From the late 1940s to late 1980s (with the exception of the rather telling ‘Emergency period’ and its aftermath), electoral politics in India was dominated by the traditional elites. Within such a system, there was a continued ‘capture’ of the Indian state by the privileged, the only route into the political imagination left for others was through asserting ‘identity politics’ (especially caste-based identities, as in the case of the BSP or Bahujan Samaj party, and the Mayawati – their leader – phenomenon). The founding myth of the post-colonial Indian state was that of a ‘sovereign democratic republic’ (original preamble to the Indian constitution) and it was later amended to become, ‘sovereign socialist secular democratic republic’. The same amendment (the 42nd amendment to the Indian Constitution in 1976) that added the words ‘socialist’ and ‘secular’, also inserted the word ‘integrity’ in addition to the ‘unity’ originally mentioned; the changed preamble went from ‘unity of the nation’ to ‘unity and integrity of the nation’. It is of crucial importance that the labels confirming India as ‘socialist’ and ‘secular’, and the pledge for ‘integrity’ came about in 1976 during the Emergency era (1975-1977) which witnessed a general curtailment of the freedoms of most ordinary Indians, especially those such as religious minorities and the economically deprived. In other words, by the 1970s, India’s founding myths were already severely challenged, and therefore needed to be proclaimed as an exercise in self-justification. There was discrimination against religious minorities (for example, as an unstated rule, Muslims were never placed in ‘sensitive’ government positions – not that this has gone away – click here for a recent report that state-run banks in India routinely turn away Muslims), hence India needed to call itself ‘secular’. There was growing inequality and continued widespread poverty, hence India needed to call itself ‘socialist’. There was justified alienation in various parts of the country due to ignorance and corrupt misgovernance enabled by the Mandarin-Machiavelli relations (and the ‘integrity’ of India’s neighbour Pakistan had been challenged with the creation of Bangladesh in 1971), hence India’s ‘integrity’ needed to be affirmed. >From 1947 onwards, post-colonial India saw itself as an inheritor of the British imperial mantle in the region. Indian leadership, while aware of the negative legacies of the empire, also inherited its realpolitik attitudes, which were made worse by a euphoria of emergent nationalism and self-righteousness. The regime had changed but the processes had simply replaced foreign elites with a home-grown indigenous elite (for example, a significant number of rulers from the erstwhile princely states were appointed as bureaucrats, ambassadors, policy-makers). Add to which there was the personality cult of Nehru whose personal friendships, affiliations, and dispositions could brook little opposition and loomed large on the decision-making processes in a democratic state. In the subsequent decades, notwithstanding the official non-aligned third-worldist stance, India’s political priorities – national and international – were shaped by its close relations with the old and new imperial powers. An entrenched (often English-speaking, Brahminical, Hindu) elite thrived domestically, India began to be seen as a regional hegemon, relations with neighbours (China, Pakistan) rapidly deteriorated, and electoral politics became a game of patronage. In the years following independence, India refused to negotiate with China on the boundary issue (while simultaneously following a less-than-pragmatic policy on Tibet), pursued an ill-advised ‘forward policy’ in NEFA (North East Frontier Areas), and Nehru – a Kashmiri himself and fond of Kashmir; Kashmir was special – promised Kashmiris a plebiscite to determine their future. In the middle of the twentieth century, my grandfather, then a young man, stood among the crowd at Lal Chowk in the centre of Srinagar (capital of IOK) listening to the Indian Prime Minister Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru make a rousing speech to the people of Kashmir - ‘Kashmir ke log koi bhhed-bakri nahin hain ki hamne kaha yahaan chalo ya wahaan chalo’ (the people of Kashmir can’t be led like goat or sheep in one direction or the other) – in which he promised them a choice to determine their identity, specifically a plebiscite to determine their own future. In later years, my grandfather would often recall those words of Nehru apologetically (recently he passed away and I went again to Srinagar to mourn for him in his birthplace, the land of my lost memories). This Nehruvian promise came to naught as India’s stance on Kashmir became ever more legalistic. As for India’s claim that Kashmir is ‘integral’ to India to confirm its secular credentials (being the only Muslim majority state in a Hindu majority India): what an irony, since India’s secular credentials (being an afterthought as the ‘Emergency’ time amendment shows) were not ‘integral’ to the Indian state at its founding! Internationally, the Indian state has thrived by trading on its publicised self-image as democratic, secular, and peaceful. The comparison has always been with neighbours like China and Pakistan - one communist, the other theocratic (to the wider western world, nothing could be worse than someone who is a ‘Commie’ or ‘Islamic’). The world at large has been fooled for too long by the articulate, if not argumentative, Indian upper-class governmental and corporate elite and their publicity machines. So successful is this illusion about India, that the world media consistently under-reports the Indian state’s brutality when it comes to Naxalites, the ‘North East’ (the only part of the country which is referred to by geographical co-ordinates; a telling synecdochic use of the generic term ‘north east’ to refer to one or all of the seven different states together), and always, Kashmir. India is demographically a Hindu majority state, and for all its talk of ‘unity in diversity’, it is intolerant towards its minorities. That discrimination and intolerance flourishes in Pakistan or China or the West is no justification for ignoring this fact in India. For instance, there is a violent ongoing repression of the tribals, there is recurrent and extreme state brutality in Kashmir, there have been orchestrated pogroms against the Muslims (Gujarat 2002), violence against the Sikhs (Delhi 1984), the Christians (Orissa 2007-08), add to which, there is a constant ongoing broad-ranging discrimination against people in terms of their religion, caste, class, gender, sexuality. Of course, India is democratic, secular, and peaceful, except when it needs to suppress those that don’t look like mainstream Indians (the Hindus) - these ‘others’ include its tribal and indigenous people, ‘lower’ castes, its minorities, its ‘north eastern’ peoples (ethnically different, they are derisively referred to as ‘Chinks’, often confused for Chinese in the main metropolises, and seen as different and separate), and Muslims. The people who fit India’s self-narrative best are affluent Hindus. Today, India wishes to be recognised as a ‘superpower-in-waiting’, yet like other superpowers (to wit, the USA) it is rotting from within. After the end of the Cold War, both the blatant privatisation (euphemistically called ‘liberalisation’) of the Indian economy, and the overt ‘Hinduisation’ of Indian polity (rise of right-wing parties like the BJP) came to full flowering in the 1990s; together this created an intolerant and unholy consensus in the arenas of politics and economics. Today, both the main national parties – Congress and BJP – converge on the ‘free-market’ economic fundamentals and the political space is given over to divisive ‘vote-bank’ driven identity politics. Over time, this has resulted in greater inequality, more deprivation, and a disenfranchisement of large sections of the country, but it has been politically profitable for those who instigated these changes. The Hinduising, reactionary BJP came to power spreading its message of bigotry, and the Congress leader with a carefully maintained image who engineered the neoliberal restructuring of the country (as the finance minister) in the early 1990s, is the prime minister of the country today. In his recent remarks, he (bizarrely) used the public reaction to his budget in 1991 as a counter to the criticism of his Nuclear Bill in 2010. In so many regions and in so many ways, the project and vision of postcolonial India is coming apart at the seams. The same-old routine use of the narrative of ‘national integration’ and ‘outside infiltration’ (Pakistani trained terrorists in Kashmir, China-trained Maoists in Eastern India) cannot inoculate a country that is failing its people economically, politically and socially. The Indian political class is superbly corrupt. Entry into politics is seen as a route for upward class mobility by enabling wealth accumulation; generally only the sons and scions of those with pre-existing political connexions rise through the ranks, unless one is a goon with a criminal record! Indian bureaucracy has a reputation for being tremendously arrogant. It is a truism that Indian bureaucrats are generally smug and supercilious, unwilling to learn or exchange ideas from any but the most hawkish and pro-establishment intellectuals. The large swathes of Indian middle classes are stuffed with intolerance, unthinking mass entertainment, and over consumption – fed by a corporatised media that ‘manufactures consent’ in a textbook Chomsky way. The mix of ignorance and blustery self-confidence that one encounters in middle-class Indians rivals Americans (they share this ‘superpower’ trait!). All of the above – a corrupt political class, a smug bureaucracy, an unthinking and avidly consuming middle class – makes India a wonderful ‘market’ globally. This is the reason why the world keeps silent when the Indian state commits or abets violent atrocities, both inside its boundaries and outside. In such an environment, proper political consciousness is rare. Indian people are fed the ‘national integration’ mantra and they lap it up, unable to perceive the way in which people such as the Kashmiris are being dehumanised. The average middle-class Indian (who grows up learning in history and geography books at school about everywhere in the world except for the countries that are India’s neighbours) is intolerant of Pakistan, suspicious of China, unwilling to commingle with Muslims or ‘lower castes’, and willfully blind to the poverty that surrounds them – s/he is focused on making money, spending money, and occasionally, redemption through self-help. Kashmir is a distant nightmare for them. Indian politicians ultimately don’t care for Kashmir. When the situation looks extremely grim, as now, they make a few statements, a few changes happen at the state level, a few lies are spun, and some schemes are floated to keep public opinion on board. The leadership is, by turns and at different levels, dull, corrupt, and lacking in morals. Most importantly, the compulsions of India’s domestic politics ensure that there is no real potential for dialogue and understanding on Kashmir. The entrenched national narrative is so strong that any move forward is seized by the opposition as ‘compromise’ and ‘betrayal’. Given the circumstances, even the most measly statement made by government representatives that recognises any problem in Kashmir or questions the Hindu right-wing is challenged by the xenophobic intolerant right-wing politicians (BJP and their ilk) and exploited for political gain ( e.g. the BJP asking the Home Minister to apologise for commenting on ‘saffron terror’/Hindu right-wing extremism, and the BJP challenging the PM for his statement on autonomy for Kashmir). What is more, India’s political, military and bureaucratic interests in Kashmir are not coherently aligned, and are subject to the varying intensity and profitability of India’s strategic international alliances. The strength and honesty of political will of the Indian government on Kashmir then becomes a pawn in line with India’s interests in Afghanistan, and in turn hostage to US policy on ‘AfPak’. Finally, India’s defence sector is rapidly modernising and therefore internationally very lucrative at the moment. At the same time, there is an excessive use of force in the occupation of Kashmir. Such conflict then unleashes its own perverse incentives such as the increased expenditure on arms and debilitates the initiatives for peace. In any case, the militarisation of security in India is a dangerous development for the dehumanising violence it enables (some Indian military tactics in Kashmir are excessive even for the Israeli IDF!). Kashmir is not an ‘integral’ part of India. It is a disputed integral, in fact, as I have argued, the Indian attitude to Kashmir can only be understood in the wider context of the failed political, economic, and social promises of post-colonial India. In the name of ‘national integration’, India is occupying a region against the will of the people who live there. Kashmir is ‘integral’ only to the life of Kashmiris. The tragedy of Kashmir Having a historical legacy as a sacred site of early Himalayan Buddhism, Kashmir was a Muslim-majority state in a Hindu-majority India at the time of India's independence from the British; through most of the last millennium, it was variously ruled by central and west Asian originating Mughal-Afghan dynasties. In the nineteenth century, it was ruled by Sikhs from whom the British acquired it and sold it on to a Hindu Dogra King. As a people of the mountains who had been bartered by the British, Kashmiris were aware of the oppression they faced. The distinctive identity of Kashmir was shaped by multiple influences and rulerships. Kashmir’s history is a knot of contested interpretations made worse by ignorance. The biggest myth of recent times is that of seeing Kashmir historically in terms of Muslims versus Hindus, instead of Muslims and Hindus. Kashmiris did not see themselves in these terms until they were classified as such by the political games of the later part of the twentieth century. The centuries-old tradition of ‘Kashmiriyat’ bears testimony to the identity of Kashmiris as a people who did not let their religious affiliations overwhelm their ethnic and regional commonality. Contemporary Hindu religious extremists/activists often try to extrapolate selective facts from Kashmir’s rich history to push their communal case – citing especially the forced conversions to Islam (click here for a scholarly contradiction of this claim, notable because it is written by a Kashmiri Hindu, so it defies assumed communal viewpoint in this regard), and the 1989 exodus of Kashmiri Pandits (minority Hindus) from the Valley as having been forced by Kashmiri Muslims. Kashmiris were a people who were somehow ‘bargained’ into nationhood when the British left the region. From mid-nineteenth century onwards, the practice of statecraft and governance came to be tied closely to statistics, enumeration and classification (the first census in UK was carried out in 1800s). In the colonies too, the British tried to stabilise and centralise channels of power by classifying their subjects and dealing with them in terms of race, genetic stock, community leaders, and religion. Hindus and Muslims were two important lenses through which people were perceived, roused, and then divided during partition. In the case of Kashmir, this British formula was messed-up – the Muslims were the majority in Kashmir, but the ruler (Hari Singh) was not Muslim, Indian Prime Minister Nehru was Kashmiri Hindu but close to Sheikh Abdullah, the most prominent Kashmiri leader, a Muslim. Plus, the entire Himalayas, including Kashmir, had been constructed as a strategic geopolitical buffer in the imperial trajectory till then; the ‘Great Game’ was a kind of proto-Cold War. When India and Pakistan were being carved up, Kashmir was coveted on either side (this manic struggle over possessing Kashmir has led to multiple wars – 1947, 1965, 1999 – between India and Pakistan – both of whom use Kashmir as a propaganda pawn for their opportunistic and hypocritical purposes – and a continued boundary stalemate, including over the unpopulated Aksai-Chin area, between India and China). In so many ways, Kashmir was ‘special’. The Kashmiri political voice and consciousness was different from that of the rest of India. The Kashmiris of an earlier generation – up until the 1980s – saw themselves as ‘Kashmiris’, in spite of everything. Kashmiris as a people have historically shared language, mannerisms, speech inflections, customs and even some festivals (such as the springtime ‘Badaamwari’). Today, very little understanding of this commonality remains. Why? Because mainstream India (and Pakistan) never understood Kashmir nor cared for Kashmiri people. When Pakistan and India came into being, Kashmir was attacked by one side to obtain it by force and its unrepresentative ruler was forced by the other side to sign an ‘instrument of accession’ as a condition of providing help in repelling the attack. Where were the Kashmiri people’s aspirations accounted for in all of this? In India, they were promised self-determination but over the successive decades witnessed a tug of war between the centre and periphery during which governments in Srinagar were removed from power, puppets were installed, and elections were rigged. India saw the people of Kashmir as inherently ‘alien’ and ‘untrustworthy’, somehow always already ‘tainted’. The progressivist aspirations of Kashmir’s leaders and their openly communist leanings from the 1930s onwards did not help either when it came to the fast-polarising ideological alliances between states in the Cold War era (various other larger factors were salient in this framing also, such as the Dalai Lama’s exile to India, ZA Bhutto forging the alliance with communist China). The Communists of Kashmir had surnames that were both Hindu and Muslim. The intellectuals of Kashmir had vivid memories of pre-independence Lahore, a centre of gravity in those times. But, most people in India have never heard of Kashmir and communism together in the same sentence[1]. The currently evolving Chinese stance on Kashmir (China denied a visa in August 2010 to an Indian general posted in Kashmir) is news only to someone who doesn’t know of Sheikh Abdullah meeting Chou-en-Lai in Algiers in 1967. Those non-Kashmiri Indians who spew hateful anti-Muslim rhetoric today and claim Kashmir as an undying part of India, do they know of one festival or tradition of Kashmiri Hindus, let alone of Kashmiri Muslims? But, why speak of festivals. Ask the average Indian what happened in Kashmir in the late 1980s. Some might know about the exodus of Kashmiri Hindus from the Valley from 1989 onwards (only some, for mainstream India does not actually care for Kashmiris, either Hindu or Muslim, they care for their own existential need to control and possess Kashmir), but they are unlikely to know about the elections of 1987, by which time India was acting desperate, rigged to prevent the Kashmiri people from electing anyone but those ‘approved’ by New Delhi. Every grievance of the Kashmiri people (who are majority Muslim) was seen through the anti-national lens. Is it any surprise then that some of those Kashmiri Muslims, frustrated and pigeonholed by India for decades, actually turned to radical political Islam, given the role of the Pakistani ISI, the wider dynamics of the closing Cold War (like Muslims everywhere else, Kashmiris too were/are affected by radical political Islam, which in many parts of the world was deliberately encouraged by the West as a counter to communist ‘red’ threat), and the Afghan and central Asian scenario at the time? In the 1980s, radical Islamism rose in Kashmir. But let us not forget the figure of Jagmohan, the governor of Kashmir in the 1980s (1984-1989, again in 1990) who played a prominent (though not exclusive) role in instigating the departure of Kashmiri Hindus from the Valley. A communal right-wing Hindu who later joined the BJP, he was the representative of the centre in Muslim majority Kashmir in these turbulent years which included the 1987 election rigging[2]. Much more needs to be written about his terrible tenure in Kashmir in the 1980s. Still, as Pankaj Mishra details, “Jagmohan’s pro-Hindu policies in Kashmir, and the lack of economic opportunities for educated Muslim Kashmiris, drove many Kashmiri youth to support Islamist parties that were gaining influence in the state”. These Islamist parties were “helped by the growth of madrassas, the privately owned theology schools which were often run by Muslims from Assam in eastern India, over a thousand miles away, where mass killings of Muslims in the early Eighties had forced their migration to Kashmir”. During Jagmohan’s tenure there, the elected government of Kashmir was dismissed twice, the number of Muslims being recruited in government service went down, non-Muslims were encouraged to work in Kashmir; also he sought to impose “a peculiarly Hindu modernity” on the state, permitting unrestricted sale of alcohol but forbidding Muslims to slaughter sheep on a Hindu festival day (see Pankaj Mishra, 'The birth of a nation', The New York Review of Books). Jagmohan was removed in 1989, but reappointed in 1990 (at which the state government resigned in protest) to govern Kashmir directly under central rule and deal with the militants. In her analysis of ‘Kashmir and International Law: how war crimes fuel the conflict’, Patricia Grossman writes, “In response to widespread threats and targeted attacks and killings by militant groups, many Hindus had fled. Jagmohan’s government ultimately assisted some 90,000 Hindus in leaving the Kashmir Valley for camps in Jammu and New Delhi”. What of those Kashmiris (mostly Muslim) who remained in the Valley? Grossman documents, “In the weeks that followed, Indian army and security forces opened fire repeatedly on unarmed protesters, in some cases shooting to kill wounded prisoners. These killings constituted a serious violation of international humanitarian law. Foreign journalists were expelled from Kashmir for several months, and new laws enacted granting the security forces increased powers, limiting defendants’ rights, imposing restrictions on public gatherings, and prohibiting virtual any public expression of dissent”. Many Kashmiris (and others in India; Sanghvi, the reviewer of Jagmohan’s book – see link above – disparagingly calls them ‘secular journos’) believe that he envisaged a ‘total solution’ for Kashmir, and the reason he aided the exodus of Kashmiri Hindus was because he planned to isolate the Kashmiri Muslims from the Kashmiri Hindus and then ‘deal’ with them by violent means. In a way that has come to pass. In a more fundamental way than theocratic Islamic Pakistan could ever do with all its cross border airwave propaganda and infiltration, a democratic India with its bungling Hinduised outlook has managed to convert Kashmir into a sorry communal battleground. The proliferation of the politics of hate has meant that the rise of Hindutva in India has been mirrored by the growth of Islamism in Kashmir. The Kashmiris are alienated evermore each day. In the last two decades, the Kashmiri psyche has been surgically cleaved into Kashmiri Hindus and Kashmiri Muslims. An entire generation of Kashmiri Hindus have grown up outside Kashmir in India where they have learnt to identify themselves as ‘Hindus’ before Kashmiris, in accordance with the right-wing Hindu sentiment of mainstream India. This generation of young people is a recruiting ground for Hindu extremists for the RSS, VHP, BJP and the kind. Their justified nostalgia for their homeland is condensed into narratives of anti-Muslim hate which can be exploited for political vote gain. Equally, an entire generation of Kashmiri Muslims have grown up inside Kashmir where they have learnt to identify themselves as ‘Muslims’ before calling themselves Kashmiris in the environment of militancy and a brutal Indian military occupation who view them only as latent Islamic fundamentalists. Their justified aspirations of life and livelihood are daily denied by lack of representation and discrimination. In their imagination, Kashmiri Hindus are a traitorous pro-Indian minority, linked to the oppressive Hindu Indian majority. Often, even the Valley leaders who supposedly represent them are self-serving, corrupt, and manipulate their sentiments for political gain. This two-fold absence – Kashmiri Hindus whose memory is wiped clean of Kashmiri Muslims as being Kashmiris and who have had to strike roots outside their homeland and adapt to mainstream India, and Kashmiri Muslims who have lived under militancy and an Indian military occupation without the memory of Kashmiri Hindus being Kashmiris and who are tired of being scapegoated for machinations beyond their control – is the grafting of a virtual partition of Kashmir’s history and identity. Until the 1980s, a Kashmiri – Hindu or Muslim – might say, we the people of Kashmir, do not belong to India, we are Kashmiri. Beyond the Banihal tunnel (Jawahar tunnel) was the land of Lipton tea, not Mogul chai. India was an ‘other’ to a Kashmiri as much as a Kashmiri was an ‘other’ to an Indian. Now, a Kashmiri will, in all probability, speak in line with their location and their precise suffering will systematically depend on their experience of where they spent the last two decades – within the Valley or outside it. The sheer toll on Kashmiri people has been staggering. Over 100,000 Kashmiri Hindus left their homeland, several hundred were killed, numberless young people have grown up in refugee camps. Especially for those who were poor and from rural areas of Kashmir, it has been a journey of ruin and devastation. Having lost home and homeland, living on handouts in the festering, sweltering chaos of refugee camps in India, peddling wares, being discriminated against, they have no political voice other than the high-pitched shrill of the right-wing Hindu leaders. The Indian state consistently downplays their situation and thus helps to channel their frustrations into Hindu extremism by having no vision for their future, ignoring their specific plight on the one hand, and by being generally Islamophobic, on the other. The arithmetic gets really, truly miserable when it comes to the Kashmiri Muslims in the Valley. Their tragedy is to live their life under constant threat of militancy and an Indian military occupation of anywhere between tens to hundreds of thousands security personnel (and India being a big lucrative market that is ‘secular democratic’ and not Islamic, the world is happy to turn a blind eye to what happens in Kashmir). Since 1989, over 60,000 people in Kashmir have been killed, over 7,000 have gone missing, several hundred thousand have been maimed, tortured, and psychologically damaged. In addition, there are thousands of unmarked graves, thousands of women have been raped, tens of thousands widowed and children orphaned. In the crazy count of violence, numbers lose meaning. The atrocities – murders, rapes, torture, extra-judicial killings, forced disappearances – committed by the Indian security forces in Kashmir are not investigated properly (as in the recent Shopian rape case of 2009). There are currently existing draconian laws, such as the Armed Forces (Jammu & Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) which was applied in Kashmir in 1990 (click here to read about political violence in Kashmir and AFSPA and here for reading on the genesis of the AFSPA from the 1950s in India’s ‘North East’). This act gives the armed forces carte blanche powers to search, arrest, and shoot people with immunity (something that the army often does with impunity in the ‘disturbed’ areas). The people living in Kashmir for the last two decades have only seen the inhuman face of an occupying force which degrades and kills people if they dare to raise their voice, which rapes women, kills young boys, kills beggars in fake encounters. Under such circumstances, it is the paramount duty of mainstream Indians to stand up and be counted, to convey the message to the Indian government that such atrocities cannot and should not be committed in their name. Instead of rabid anti-Muslim hate-mongering and chanting how Kashmir is ‘integral’ to India (which can only produce mirror responses of hard-line intolerant Islamist ideologues inside the Kashmir Valley), the non-Kashmiri Indians have a duty to recognise the rights of Kashmiris as a people. Yes, the Kashmiri Hindus had to leave their homeland, but how will the perpetuation of violence and hatred help their cause? Kashmiri Hindus themselves have been used as pawns by the Indian state. Their story is one of a small but educated and comparatively elite, affluent minority in a Muslim-majority state who had close connections with the Indian establishment and were always targeted and cultivated by Indian intelligence machinery as agents of RAW (Research and Analysis Wing), IB (Intelligence Bureau) and the Indian state. Such machinations over the decades since independence have only served to widen the gulf between Kashmiri Hindus and Kashmiri Muslims. The Indian state has failed both Kashmiri Hindus and Kashmiri Muslims, failing to account for the aspirations of both communities; it has however, succeeded in dividing them in a fundamental (hopefully not irreversible) way. The tragedies of Kashmir are under-reported in India and treacherously ignored worldwide. What Kashmiris want Since the late 1980s, Kashmir has been a war zone. Successive Indian governments have let Kashmiris down. In its negotiations with the leaders of Kashmir, India has been more willing to recognise the ‘politics of their struggle’ (who represents what voice, can be played off against whom to what effect) as opposed to their essential ‘political struggle’. The demand of the Kashmiri people is ‘Azaadi’. Freedom. Freedom to be themselves, to choose their national destiny. We are not Indians. We are Kashmiris. We have a history, a language, a culture that demands recognition. Instead of recognising this gut-wrenching, existential cry of the Kashmiri people, the Indian state sends in more guns, more troops, more rolls of barbed wire, more bribes, more bullets. When this does not work and the Kashmiris scream ‘Go India Go’, they send in a battery of words – Development, Employment, Infrastructure, Laws, Training, Security, Curfew. The big words fall flat and disappear without trace between the folds of the pheran, in the wrinkles on the face, on the marks on the graves, and in the flow of Kashmiri blood. Here’s a valid question to ask Indian political leaders, bureaucrats, army chiefs, right-wing extremists, the ignorant layperson: Are you blind? Can you not see that we want a recognition of our identity as a people? Burn your Bollywood movies. Come to Kashmir. Walk through our cities. The bridges. The ruins. The graves. Look at what we eat. Look at our buildings. Our shrines. Our architecture. Our speech. Our history. Speak to us. See how we live. We are not you. We have never been you. We don’t want to be you. Freedom cannot be finally denied. Nations do sometimes let territories go. Borders do sometimes get realigned. Small states can manage to survive in the middle of large ones (I am in one: Bhutan). For over 50 years, every schoolchild in India has been fed lies – shown an incorrect map of Kashmir that they only recognise as being false once they see a map printed outside India. What do Indians know about Kashmir anyway? 1. Exotic tourist version / Kashmir the beautiful (from holiday photographs) Kashmir is a picture postcard beautiful land crowned by the lofty Himalayas and marked by clear running streams. Old romantic ruins, walnut trees, apple orchards, wood houses and rare flowers populate the region. There are people huddling with cups of almond kahwa over the kangri embers in winter, reflections of red Chinar leaves on the Dal lake in autumn, bustle in Srinagar’s Lal Chowk in summer, and some landslides when it rains. The children are excited for months before the big festivals and pretty women in embroidered pherans are everywhere. There are shikaras and houseboats, unrivalled wood carvings, intricately decorated Papier-Mache boxes, and of course, the shahtoosh, cashmere and pashmina woollens. 2. Security problem version / Kashmir the cruel (from media photographs) The place on maps with the name Kashmir is a conflict-riven divided territory where bloodshed has not ceased for decades now. In the name of separatism, insurgency, militancy, freedom-struggle, territorial integrity, occupation or terrorism, this bloody valley has seen people dying, endless grieving and lost orphans. Kashmir is the name for a problem – like Palestine. Curvy newsprint alphabets indifferently remark the deaths in the Valley; some number shot by soldiers, shot by militants. People read and often forget. The political and public perceptions of Kashmir vary at the levels of the Indian state and the Indian individual. For most Indians, Kashmir is an exotic place, unreal and wholly imaginary. In the time-honoured manner of stereotyping, the Kashmiris are not seen as real people, they are ‘the other’; represented to suit the self-image of mainstream Indians. In the pendulum swing between Bollywood movies and Islamophobia, typically, Kashmir is either filled with an entire assortment of enchanting people and precious things (rosy-cheeked fair girls, apples, walnuts) or a dangerous place filled with a repugnant, ungrateful, and violent Muslims and almost-Muslims. For the last two decades, it has largely been the latter. But this ‘wrecked paradise’ of Kashmir is inhabited by real people with real lives and aspirations. The longer India occupies Kashmir instead of understanding what the people there want, the more it will pave the way for the influence of hard-line intolerance in the Valley (already a land with famous women poetesses like Lalla Ded and Habba Khatoon is becoming known for women like Asiya Andrabi, the head of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, or Daughters of the People, which seeks to promote compulsory veiling for women and attempts to enforce rigid Islamic values hitherto alien in Kashmir’s syncretic culture). Protests by stones and phones Nearly half of those killed in Kashmir in recent weeks were teenagers, one butchered on his way to the hospital in an ambulance. Another eleven year old killed as I write. The wider world, especially the West, is ‘careful’ in how it reports Kashmir, always stressing that the police were ‘provoked’, that the protestors were ‘anti-national’. Far away from the raw fury of Kashmir, commentators in Delhi muse on twitter “NOT condoning death: but WHY wd parents allow 11yrolds to protest”. Why would parents allow a child to protest? I want to ask the stranger back – Have you ever been to a war zone? The rules of normal life are suspended in a place where brutality abounds. Middle-class parents in comfort zones 'allow' their kids action in line with what is good for them. In Kashmir where bullets zip past and people endure daily humiliation, children too (as in Palestine) become cannon fodder. By the time you read this, more will have died. What image does the Indian state have of these children and teenagers - child terrorists? child soldiers? Or, brutalised young people who only have the weapon of the defenceless, a stone? Kashmiris are not allowed to protest, denied freedom of assembly, even as they are under occupation by a democracy. When they shout ‘enough’, they are shot by ‘security’ forces. The Indian state announces that it will create jobs, sends in more troops, announces a billion rupee propaganda fund, places political leaders under house arrests, mulls over ‘non-lethal ways of crowd control’ and intelligence gathering in local languages. It does everything that confirms it as an occupying force – it will spend money, it will send moles, but it will not recognise the basic reason why people are fed-up to the extent of throwing stones: their need for freedom. Of course, the people of Kashmir are economically deprived, there’s poor infrastructure, and the lack of even basic necessities like electricity (routine prolonged power cuts in severe winters). On this latter, the standard Indian answer is that there’s a lot of power-theft in Jammu and Kashmir, but as a poet humorously wrote, burning dinner is not incompetence but war, there are reasons why disenfranchised people don’t pay bills (for example, the lack of identification with the authorities, as in the case of apartheid South Africa). But, the experts analyzing Kashmir in terms of the development critique forget that a prinked cage is still a cage. If a people have been alienated over decades and truly yearn for freedom, then they cannot be bought with promises of jobs. By focusing on the stone in the hands of the Kashmiri protestors (for an exception, click here), the Indian media manages to erase the brutality of the pointed gun in the hands of the soldiers who face them. The extreme methods of repression that India is trialling in Kashmir will gradually find their way into the standard procedures for dealing with protestors elsewhere too. Moreover, the protestors of today have a way to document the atrocities perpetrated on them – youtube, twitter, facebook. The world may not be twitter-trending #Kashmir at the moment, but someday it might. In the meantime, there are hundreds of videos and pictures online that show exactly the kind of attitude the Indian forces have towards the residents of Kashmir – charging at women, beating up children, damaging private property, and being very violent towards young men. It is an irony of the ‘security situation’ in Kashmir today that the security forces who are supposed to ‘secure’ the people, stand barricaded behind razor wire rolls and camouflaged walls (adorned with slogans like ‘Help us to help you’) wearing body armour. Who are these soldiers? The average face of Indian terror in Kashmir are uniformed men of the security forces who hail from poorer economic classes of towns and villages in the plains of India – they have to serve in the tough conditions of a Himalayan valley where theyare the face of the occupation. They live under rough barricaded conditions, feel hemmed in by the mountains; the food, climate, society is nearly entirely alien to them. They have little knowledge of Kashmir’s history, language, or culture (the wisdom of Indian defence seems to be that soldiers who are able to empathise with people in the areas in which they serve, cannot be effective). Many of them are devout Hindus (some posted at a temple in Kashmir complain they are pelted with stones, temple bells are unfastened, land is encroached). They are ill-informed about the objectives of the Indian state or the grievances of the Kashmiri people. Quite a few of them turn hostile to the local population under such circumstances. On a recent visit to Srinagar, I was talking to an Indian CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) soldier at a prominent civic location in the city who lamented to me that: ‘Kashmiri people are dogs. We do so much for them and they are ingrate curs’. I disagreed, later mentioning that I was Kashmiri myself. He was a young man, far from home, trapped by circumstances, who dreamt of a place called Italy. Periodically, in the middle of conversing, he or one of his colleagues would randomly shout at local Kashmiri passers-by; rudely, brusquely, asking them to stop, search them, call them names, shoo them away. The interaction was obviously power-laden and inhuman; the Kashmiris around him were nameless, faceless bodies. Soon after I left, I read in the papers that there had been a blast at that site in which a soldier was also killed. I always wondered whether he had been the same man I had spoken to; the one who could not wait to get out of Kashmir. In Delhi, earlier this year, a Kashmiri Hindu stood posted at the gates of the ‘Kashmir Expo’ (a handicrafts fair selling Kashmiri clothes) and confidentially whispered to me that he was there to ‘keep an eye’ on the Kashmiri Muslim sellers inside. Elsewhere, in Srinagar, in the midst of playing cricket, small Kashmiri boys belted out slogans about ‘azaadi’, reminding me of East Jerusalem or Ramallah. Daily workers at neglected archaeological monuments rued their fate about not being made permanent by the centre in their job for decades because of their religion as Muslims. An elderly craftsman uttered the precise and profound loss of the ‘Kalam’, the pen – writing, but also perhaps what it enables: story, art, tradition. Nostalgia for the Future Kashmir is daily witnessing an attrition of its culture, literature, architecture, psychology. At the centre of Srinagar is Lal Chowk (mark the meaning, ‘Red Square’, renamed by Sheikh Abdullah), and at the centre of Lal Chowk is the ruin of the Palladium Cinema; the once thriving cultural buzz of Kashmir has been decimated in the wake of the last two decades of mindless violence and cultural repression (the last surviving cinema in IOK is under threat of closure). This destruction of cultural objects in wars is continuous throughout the history of the world (see Robert Bevan’s ‘The Destruction of Memory: Architecture at War’). On the first day of new year 2010, when the aeruginous near-full moon rose over the Zabarwan mountains at night, very few Kashmiris were out to see the copper-coloured miracle. There were no public celebrations at midnight. The city has been ghosted by oppression, violence, and terror perpetrated by the military/militants. The Kashmiri Muslims being killed, raped, tortured, maimed in Kashmir are my fellow country people. The Kashmiri Hindus displaced in India are my fellow country people too (even as they classify me for my Kashmiri Pandit Hindu surname ‘Kaul’ and curse me for expressing the views I do). Other non-Kashmiri Indians insinuate treachery when I call myself ‘Kashmiri’ instead of Indian. Never mind. I am Kashmiri. I belong to Kashmir: my fatherland narrated to me by a father now dead. My ancestral home by a river is a carved wooden house with many floors and stairs leading up to an attic in a street named after a fifteenth century Sultan who could read Sanskrit, Persian, Tibetan. The meta-narratives of big states have eaten up my history, my identity, my notion of a 'home'. And it the same for every Kashmiri. I am alive, and for now, away. Those Kashmiris dehumanised and dying in the Valley do not have the luxury of reflection. Indians should stop firing at those who pelt stones. Instead of the task force on crowd control, they might think about the meaning of the endlessly gathering crowds, the message in the parched heart of each stone. Any political movement always has multiple strands within it, multiple aspirations, which is where leadership comes in, no doubt partly manipulative. But the freedom of Kashmiri people to elect political representatives into power was the most dangerous thing to tamper with in a democracy. The ten percent turnout of the 1996 election goes back to 1987 and the lack of trust before that even. The elections in Kashmir in 2008 were interpreted in India as a conclusive vote in favour of development and India. Yet the design of the electoral mechanism might have been salient too; ‘staggered elections’ (such as the one in 2008) are recognised in the scholarly literature as being prone to ‘bandwagon effects’. Some believed that the violence in the Valley prior to these elections (June to August 2008) was deliberately engineered by Indian intelligence to ‘vent’ anger prior to the elections (in November 2008) and ‘test’ the strength of separatist sentiment in Kashmir. Messy political accommodation may delay, but will not cure, the raw fury of the Kashmiri people who, at the moment, face indoctrination or liquidation. Every year in the middle of the month of August, on Independence Day, Indians repeat the momentous 1947 midnight freedom speech of Nehru: “Long years ago we made a tryst with destiny, and now the time comes when we shall redeem our pledge, not wholly, or in full measure, but very substantially…A moment comes, which comes but rarely in history… when the soul of a nation, long suppressed, finds utterance”. Let these magic words be true for the nation of Kashmir too. Redeem the pledges, if not wholly and in full measure, then very substantially. Understand Kashmiris instead of attempting to ‘solve’ or ‘resolve’ Kashmir. Conventional strategists don’t always know best: demilitarise Kashmir. Repeal the draconian laws. End the mistrust of the Kashmiri people. Work with Pakistan and China to open borders and make the nation of Kashmir a reality for Kashmiris. Freedom cannot be realised without the capacity to conceive of the freedom of others. [1] I recommend Andrew Whitehead’s recent article ‘The People's Militia: Communists and Kashmiri nationalism in the 1940s’, Twentieth Century Communism, 2: 1 2010, pp. 141-168; it discusses the radical ‘New Kashmir’ manifesto of 1944 and the drastic land reforms, the ‘Quit Kashmir’ [note not ‘Quit India’] cries of 1946, the Kashmiri women militia of 1940s who were the first women in India trained to use rifles during the late 1940s, and the subsequent worries about the spread of communism in Kashmir, both in India and beyond. Whitehead quotes the diplomat Josef Korbel’s words from the 1954 book Danger in Kashmir: “Kashmir might eventually become the hub of Communist activities in Southern Asia”. Let me add that Korbel was the father of Madeleine Albright and the mentor of Condoleezza Rice, both ex-US secretaries of state [2] His main achievement there was renovating the ‘Vaishno Devi’ Hindu shrine; in 2010 he’s currently selling a book with the title ‘Reforming Vaishno Devi and a case for Reformed, Reawakened and Enlightened Hinduism’, and being favourably reviewed in some media with the words, “among the many reasons I admire Jagmohan, the former BJP minister who sadly, seems to find no place in his party these days, is because he has no hesitation in talking about Hinduism”. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 22:14:53 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 22:14:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. Message-ID: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms -- MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad taste and created controversy". The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind Faith' to be controversial." Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - Mumbai - City - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 10:25:53 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 21:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. Message-ID: <13208.34615.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of political difference would benefit from your engaged responses. Thank you. Gowhar Fazili Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 By Gowhar Fazili To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around Kashmir into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the Pakistani and the Kashmiri discourses. While the Indian and Pakistani discourses (as detailed below), accommodate Kashmiri people and the history of their collective struggles only if, and when, these buttress their respective positions, the Kashmiri discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and fragmented politics that exists within, and the connections these have with the outside world. These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of claims and counter claims. For those who have not borne the immediate brunt of the conflict these generate excitement and passion, and the discourse is consumed through various media like an IPL cricket match. The Indian state and the nationalists of various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, Secularists, unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, including the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the development achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of Indian legitimacy and control in Kashmir. Kashmiri alienation, and separatist movements figure in this narrative, if at all, variously, as consequences of external interference, uneven development, appeasement, result of one-off political mistakes made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due course when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse denies Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous political behavior. It betrays amnesia around the rich history of struggles in Kashmir that preceded accession in 1947 that still continue to inspire Kashmir. The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and dwells on the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should have been theirs by the logic of partition. It focuses on the denial of self-determination to the people and disregard of the UN resolutions, calling for plebiscite in the region. It recounts the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in their view the continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri Muslims feel towards Pakistan. Though Pakistan lends moral and diplomatic support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, it devalues the nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have had with the Indian state over the last sixty years, largely independent of Pakistan. The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized position with respect to the other two discourses imagines itself to be at the centre of the current political struggle. It draws from a long history of marginalization that predates modernity, tracing back Kashmiri dislike and resistance against foreign occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the subsequent progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian regime. It leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar Treaty), when Kashmir was sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab Singh for Seventy- five Lakh Nanakshahi rupees[2], the excessive taxation to recover this money that followed, leading to the famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of Kashmiris died; the systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and discrimination on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; the 13th July 1931 Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the year 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected Prime-Minister of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on charges of conspiracy and sedition, arresting along with him the socio-economic revolution that was underway. It presumes the subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody for twenty years to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with extreme suppression, corruption and cooption. It sees changes made over the years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in an attempt to bring Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as bulldozing of the residual safeguards against assimilation. It cites failure of India to make progress on the various agreements and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of autonomy, etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful policy.) The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging of the JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, the mass uprising for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 when Kashmiri youth took to arms against the Indian state, and such, form the key markers around which the narrative of victimhood and valor is woven. Not surprisingly the Indian national days are designated as black days (including the day Indian army landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and blackout. The narrative erases the moments of compromise and relative calm that Kashmiris have enjoyed in spurts in the intervening years giving rise to the educated, middle class which is spearheading the current separatist movement. Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns debates around these discourses emerging from respective camps. Spokespersons, scholars, military think tanks and a significantly large number of literate and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized into the importance of each of these claims and possess ability to maneuver through controversies to establish their political claims. The positions are entrenched and provide for little flexibility. The dominant narratives have also found their way into the colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, humor, are expressed with reference to these moments. To mention just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas yeeha balaay’ ‘Had not the forty-seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the year Indian Army landed in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. The expression is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through corruption. While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like people anywhere else, the fact of being born in a territory, where the conflict around its disputed nature has raged to varying degrees for over the last sixty years, complicates and intensifies concern for some identities at the cost of others. The political uncertainty impacts different members and groups differently as they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught from within and without. To grossly simplify, for example a large majority of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied themselves with Indian right-wing parties. Kashmiri Shia and Sunni Muslims largely identify with the broad contours of separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, Gujjars maintain an ambivalent position depending on where they are physically, located. People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically isolated from the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do not manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly do so for obvious reasons. Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, people of Doda, Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu depending on which of their interests and identities are threatened at a particular moment of time. People of Kargil gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist majority discriminates against them. Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged discrimination by Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the Indian state. Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, gender, region, religion and political orientation. These identities contract within and extend beyond the geographical boundaries of Kashmir in different situations and along different questions. Yet it is the collective experience of a shared geography, history, language, culture and meanings that make Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri narrative presented above which at this moment has a favorable bias towards the masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends on where one is located within the crosscutting mesh of identities and experiences and intellectual trajectories. In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other identities, by race, religion and language. Physically, they do not look, sound or behave like stereotypical Indians and are often harassed and made to prove their nationality at the ticket counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside Kashmir, given the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face difficulty in finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim ghettos; receive snares and unwelcome comments while travelling; are easy prey for the security agencies seeking instant suspects for terror attacks; cannot stick their neck out too much in day-to-day struggles so as not to risk being falsely reported; cannot easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries (for being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with the word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly illegitimate.) Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for the majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods in Kashmir, Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who deserve to be eliminated or incarcerated or insulted on the flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for ready retribution in wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, vehicles stopped, people disembarked and detained any moment and without explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to shoot people as a preventive measure against possible future terror attacks. Public Safety Act provides for preventive custody without trial even before one engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. Men, women and children are susceptible to sexual assault and torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the above experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of the Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective marginalized identity. The militants against the security forces, and the consequent deaths of Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in crossfire, or killing of assumed or real Indian agents, the damage to personal properties, cultural and religious places, though used as firewood for Indian propaganda against the separatists, enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has also resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious fundamentalists responsible and hate them for this reason. Still others have turned overly apologetic, servile and defensive. But curiously it has not resulted in increased love for India among many. The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance towards those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the dominant sense of victimhood or those who try to channelize their anger and energies differently. The identities which are in-between or fall outside the markers of dominant Kashmiri identity and victimhood are rendered invisible or sought to be assimilated or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in consonance with how radical identities often turn upon their own people who may choose divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of development like poor representation in civil services, academics, armed forces; backwardness of the region in terms of industrial development, educational infrastructure; employment opportunities within and outside the state. It also draws from the narrative of regional discrimination establishing how India has favored development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or compromisers and punish those who tried deviate or rose in opposition to the centers hegemony. This practice continues. In the present times multinational private enterprise or funding cannot move in due to instability and disturbance. Irrespective of this the deals have been struck by the government with foreign companies for example, power projects, that are complete sell-outs helped by the fact that people are alienated from the state sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. Kashmiri Responses Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a test case to understand marginality and its directions among people argues that “the marginal person, having taken on elements of the dominant culture, is unable to return unchanged to his or her original group. Thus, the marginal person is caught in a structure of double ambivalence: unable either to leave or to return to the original group; unable either to merge with the new group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to this field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here termed assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success pursued various directions in order to overcome their personal and collective sense of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four directions in which the marginalized react as suggested by Weisberger namely assimilation, return, transcendence, poise we can find parallels for each in different time periods, groups, institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. Kashmiris have also produced a wide range of political, intellectual and strategic responses that range over categories like: separatists, autonomists, Islamists, secularist, loyalist, anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, apologist, radical, pacifist, self loathing and a myriad of other responses, many, still nascent and yet to be born. (I have to develop this) One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh attempt to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill introduced in the Legislative assembly. The bill seeks to over-rule the High Court decision against the provision that renders a woman non state subject if she marries a non-state-subject. The same does not apply to men who marry outside. Interestingly BJP and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have started protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, betraying support through the lack of outrage among various political groups. The silence is symptomatic of the male patriarchal bias in the dominant discourse in Kashmir. Not to say that BJP and its allies are by any means less patriarchal. They possibly see the women’s matrimony as a means to extend their connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to increase their likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is assumed to be more common among Hindus in Jammu. Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along communal and regional lines. While the right wing Hindu formations fanned sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim separatists and mainstream regional parties saw the move as yet another attempt to change demography in Kashmir, since the shrine board included individuals who were non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the controversy provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. Indian Responses The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, apathy or disdain. Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent on or apathetic towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not share blood ties or see commonality of interest with Kashmiris. Those who empathize, have their empathies conditioned by their location within the mainstream Indian politics. Indian intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own respective projects rather than look at it from the point of view of Kashmiris and their history. Similarly Indian Muslims and their sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect Kashmiris to behave in a manner that does not threaten the survival of Indian Muslims through a backlash, which would in turn harm the fragile secular polity. The left sees it as a class problem or at best that of regional imbalance and because of false consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, unfit for class struggle and revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the media with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as they see them as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties and are mostly terrorists and fanatics. The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. Since funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, based in Delhi, they exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil society’ in its NGO avatar develops in Kashmir. The initiatives presently active in Kashmir have diverse ideological backgrounds. If we count out the covert intelligence operations in the form of NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left leaning and feminists each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of fissuring of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy respectively. While these fault-lines exist, to see them as detached from the nationality question does violence to Kashmir. It would be like the British describing colonialism condition in India as male chauvinism or caste oppression. Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state towards a negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the seasonal olive-branch overtures by the State as Muslim appeasement, while at the same time cultivating a constituency among Pandits, and caste and class groups among Hindus in Jammu. They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their Hinduvadi constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression through violent means. The talks are offered and withdrawn often at the peril of those who come forward and end up being disowned by the community for the failure and embarrassment. There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir merely as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present ‘foreign hand’, that portrays all protest as political intrigue and at best a result of internal power struggle for control over resources. But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir over a longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of eternal return, of protests, repression, compromise, corruption and back to protests. Encouragement of marginalities within Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri women and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male society which is assumed to be patriarchal and dominating. In any discussion on Kashmir, the question, ‘but what about the women, the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, Dogras, Pandits?’ and so on invariably comes up. The centre is able to subvert the mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In turn the mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to suppress or ignore the discrimination within or around itself in response to this subversion. In case of Kashmir, the demand for the right to self determination is hostage to the question of what happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, Hindus of Jammu and Buddhists of Ladakh. On the other hand the dominant discourse around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various denominations at various other levels. Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ of the Indian Army in Kashmir. It is followed by a legalistic discourse on the nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with the Indian union. This discourse forms the backdrop against which the Kashmiris are examined and variously described: as being the symbols of Indian secularism for having willfully joined the Indian union inspite of their religious and geographical affinity with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and non-violent or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, duplicity and deceit. This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and provides a good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and denied autonomous self-definition and a dignified independent identity. The only identities permissible to Kashmiris are the one that pass the litmus test of Indian ideals, the ideals which the Indians may themselves not have been able to uphold. If the identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit within the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the nation. Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and only to the extent that it serves various political purposes and then left to deal with the schizophrenic condition on their own. Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by their tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the denial of self determination only as a milestones in their long struggle for emancipation, which began much earlier and continues till date. Kashmiris subscribing to this narrative see themselves as de-facto and temporary citizens of India who have been subjugated against their will. While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into the discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their culture, they resent its use to make them into the essence of Indian ideal and react by adopting the exact opposite stereotype. Simultaneously the emphasis on their affinities and continuities with regions that spread beyond the de-facto borders of the Indian state—that is the connection with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to establish their separateness. While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving the issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare enormous resources, for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is as urgent as dignity, certainty and security of their selves and yet they are left with no choice but to stake their all and as long as it takes to achieve it. Self, Community and the Universe In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with myself. I find myself marginalized from the community in which I was born because my natural intellectual and emotional trajectory pushed me to transcend my ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of and influences from the exposure to other cultures, communities and intellectual currents. In the process I hope to evolve by contrasting these fragments and make something new out of them and thus constantly manage to recreate myself. This I assume is a normal course of healthy life for me. The process however distances me from my community in terms of my appearance, opinions as well as associations. But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to become too different from it in terms of my looks or my subjectivity, I would be perceived as a betrayer. Apart from this, seeing the community under distress, I personally sense my own betrayal. I get forced to identify with the community and represent it. The struggle I am confronted with is how to retain the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the same time not abandon my community in distress. The third commitment is to the universal whole, the affinity and commitment one feels towards the shared values and heritage of human community. It is hard to negotiate commitment to self, community and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation is important since a sense of justice is at stake. The luxury of being able to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the communal sense of victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its favour. For example when the outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective Kashmiri identity becomes the focus of my attention. As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the same time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things. But in this lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple marginalities at the same time. Some marginalities I embody, like Muslim, South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, caste, rural, disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them. I cannot have my concerns limited to myself and my community since my own victimhood shapes my identification with other marginalities. But how exactly does one locate oneself with respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one negotiate between strategy and idealism? When do I remain silent about a particular marginality to privilege the other? When do I maintain strategic silence about other marginalities to keep certain marginality in focus? How does one combine these simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular marginality does not acquire fascistic proportions? This negotiation has to take place in the context where differential importance is given to marginalities by the state or dominant interests in order to subvert, fragment and hijack marginalities. One marginality is played up against the other. Demands are counter posed—something more general or ephemeral like ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like ‘bijli-sadak-pani’. It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to vane them off the other. The choice offered is often between dignity and basic amenities of life. Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality. The more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a marginalized community. This triggers one-upmanship within the marginalized group in the race to lay claim as real representatives of the marginality. One has to arrive at a position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a radical rant. In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with other marginalities without, the process of emancipation of different marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is need for an ongoing dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of claims of marginality and to resolve conflict of interest and issues of justice in the context of different marginalities working together. There is need for democracy within the alliances of marginalities. For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and substantive emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that constitute it or risk being fragmented or reduced to yet another chauvinistic movement. It is only this rigorous self definition that will facilitate principled alliances with other movements and conceptions of marginality. [1] Presented at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of Sociology, on March 25-26th 2010 [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats and three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! [3] Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger Source: Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. 425-446 Published by: Springer From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 12:03:02 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. Message-ID: <566935.77685.qm@web45516.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear All, To those who ever practice Ramadan, Wishing you a happy festival in advance. Dhatri. --- On Mon, 9/6/10, we wi wrote: From: we wi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. To: "gowhar fazli" Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 11:58 AM The article suits best for a essay writing in a school.  For a living in INDIA things are not that much worse.  If that would be the case 100Crore+ Indians feel the same against each other.  Any way as 'Ramadan' is approaching nearer let me wish you as a gift for this mail.       Wishing you a happy ramzan.   --- On Mon, 9/6/10, gowhar fazli wrote: From: gowhar fazli Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 10:25 AM This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of political difference would benefit from your engaged responses.  Thank you. Gowhar Fazili Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 By Gowhar Fazili To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around Kashmir into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the Pakistani and the Kashmiri discourses.  While the Indian and Pakistani discourses (as detailed below), accommodate Kashmiri people and the history of their collective struggles only if, and when, these buttress their respective positions, the Kashmiri discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and fragmented politics that exists within, and the connections these have with the outside world. These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of claims and counter claims.  For those who have not borne the immediate brunt of the conflict these generate excitement and passion, and the discourse is consumed through various media like an IPL cricket match.  The Indian state and the nationalists of various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, Secularists, unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, including the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the development achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of Indian legitimacy and control in Kashmir.  Kashmiri alienation, and separatist movements figure in this narrative, if at all, variously, as consequences of external interference, uneven development, appeasement, result of one-off political mistakes made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due course when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse denies Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous political behavior. It betrays amnesia around the rich history of struggles in Kashmir that preceded accession in 1947 that still continue to inspire Kashmir. The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and dwells on the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should have been theirs by the logic of partition.  It focuses on the denial of self-determination to the people and disregard of the UN resolutions, calling for plebiscite in the region.  It recounts the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in their view the continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri Muslims feel towards Pakistan.   Though Pakistan lends moral and diplomatic support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, it devalues the nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have had with the Indian state over the last sixty years, largely independent of Pakistan. The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized position with respect to the other two discourses imagines itself to be at the centre of the current political struggle. It draws from a long history of marginalization that predates modernity, tracing back Kashmiri dislike and resistance against foreign occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the subsequent progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian regime.  It leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar Treaty), when Kashmir was sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab Singh for Seventy- five Lakh Nanakshahi rupees[2],  the excessive taxation to recover this money that followed, leading to the famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of  Kashmiris died; the systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and discrimination on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; the 13th July 1931 Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the year 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected Prime-Minister of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on charges of conspiracy and sedition, arresting along with him the socio-economic revolution that was underway.  It presumes the subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody for twenty years to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with extreme suppression, corruption and cooption.  It sees changes made over the years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in an attempt to bring Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as bulldozing of the residual safeguards against assimilation.  It cites failure of India to make progress on the various agreements and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of autonomy, etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful policy.) The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging of the JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, the mass uprising for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 when Kashmiri youth took to arms against the Indian state,  and such, form the key markers around which the narrative of victimhood and valor is woven.  Not surprisingly the Indian national days are designated as black days (including the day Indian army landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and blackout.  The narrative erases the moments of compromise and relative calm that Kashmiris have enjoyed in spurts in the intervening years giving rise to the educated, middle class which is spearheading the current separatist movement. Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns debates around these discourses emerging from respective camps.  Spokespersons, scholars, military think tanks and a significantly large number of literate and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized into the importance of each of these claims and possess ability to maneuver through controversies to establish their political claims.  The positions are entrenched and provide for little flexibility.  The dominant narratives have also found their way into the colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, humor, are expressed with reference to these moments.  To mention just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas yeeha balaay’  ‘Had not the forty-seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the year Indian Army landed in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. The expression is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through corruption. While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like people anywhere else, the fact of being born in a territory, where the conflict around its disputed nature has raged to varying degrees for over the last sixty years, complicates and intensifies concern for some identities at the cost of others.  The political uncertainty impacts different members and groups differently as they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught from within and without.  To grossly simplify, for example a large majority of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied themselves with Indian right-wing parties.  Kashmiri Shia and Sunni Muslims largely identify with the broad contours of separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, Gujjars maintain an ambivalent position depending on where they are physically, located.  People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically isolated from the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do not manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly do so for obvious reasons.  Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, people of Doda, Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu depending on which of their interests and identities are threatened at a particular moment of time.  People of Kargil gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist majority discriminates against them.  Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged discrimination by Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the Indian state. Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, gender, region, religion and political orientation. These identities contract within and extend beyond the geographical boundaries of Kashmir in different situations and along different questions. Yet it is the collective experience of a shared geography, history, language, culture and meanings that make Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri narrative presented above which at this moment has a favorable bias towards the masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends on where one is located within the crosscutting mesh of identities and experiences and intellectual trajectories. In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other identities, by race, religion and language. Physically, they do not look, sound or behave like stereotypical Indians and are often harassed and made to prove their nationality at the ticket counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside Kashmir, given the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face  difficulty in finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim ghettos; receive snares and unwelcome comments while travelling; are easy prey for the security agencies seeking instant suspects for terror attacks; cannot stick their neck out too much in day-to-day struggles so as not to risk being falsely reported; cannot easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries (for being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with the word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly illegitimate.) Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for the majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods in Kashmir, Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who deserve to be eliminated or incarcerated or insulted on the flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for ready retribution in wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, vehicles stopped, people disembarked and detained any moment and without explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to shoot people as a preventive measure against possible future terror attacks. Public Safety Act provides for preventive custody without trial even before one engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. Men, women and children are susceptible to sexual assault and torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the above experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of the Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective marginalized identity. The militants against the security forces, and the consequent deaths of Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in crossfire, or killing of assumed or real Indian agents, the damage to personal properties, cultural and religious places, though used as firewood for Indian propaganda against the separatists, enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has also resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious fundamentalists responsible and hate them for this reason. Still others have turned overly apologetic, servile and defensive. But curiously it has not resulted in increased love for India among many. The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance towards those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the dominant sense of victimhood or those who try to channelize their anger and energies differently. The identities which are in-between or fall outside the markers of dominant Kashmiri identity and victimhood are rendered invisible or sought to be assimilated or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in consonance with how radical identities often turn upon their own people who may choose divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of development like poor representation in civil services, academics, armed forces; backwardness of the region in terms of industrial development, educational infrastructure; employment opportunities within and outside the state. It also draws from the narrative of regional discrimination establishing how India has favored development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or compromisers and punish those who tried deviate or rose in opposition to the centers hegemony. This practice continues. In the present times multinational private enterprise or funding cannot move in due to instability and disturbance. Irrespective of this the deals have been struck by the government with foreign companies for example, power projects, that are complete sell-outs helped by the fact that people are alienated from the state sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. Kashmiri Responses Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a test case to understand marginality and its directions among people argues that “the marginal person, having taken on elements of the dominant culture, is unable to return unchanged to his or her original group. Thus, the marginal person is caught in a structure of double ambivalence: unable either to leave or to return to the original group; unable either to merge with the new group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to this field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here termed assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success pursued various directions in order to overcome their personal and collective sense of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four directions in which the marginalized react as suggested by Weisberger namely assimilation, return, transcendence, poise we can find parallels for each in different time periods, groups, institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. Kashmiris have also produced a wide range of political, intellectual and strategic responses that range over categories like: separatists, autonomists, Islamists, secularist, loyalist, anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, apologist, radical, pacifist, self loathing and a myriad of other responses, many, still nascent and yet to be born.    (I have to develop this) One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh attempt to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill introduced in the Legislative assembly.  The bill seeks to over-rule the High Court decision against the provision that renders a woman non state subject if she marries a non-state-subject.  The same does not apply to men who marry outside.  Interestingly BJP and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have started protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, betraying support through the lack of outrage among various political groups.  The silence is symptomatic of the male patriarchal bias in the dominant discourse in Kashmir.  Not to say that BJP and its allies are by any means less patriarchal.  They possibly see the women’s matrimony as a means to extend their connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to increase their likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is assumed to be more common among Hindus in Jammu. Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along communal and regional lines.  While the right wing Hindu formations fanned sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim separatists and mainstream regional parties saw the move as yet another attempt to change demography in Kashmir, since the shrine board included individuals who were non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the controversy provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. Indian Responses The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, apathy or disdain.  Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent on or apathetic towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not share blood ties or see commonality of interest with Kashmiris.  Those who empathize, have their empathies conditioned by their location within the mainstream Indian politics.  Indian intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own respective projects rather than look at it from the point of view of Kashmiris and their history.  Similarly Indian Muslims and their sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect Kashmiris to behave in a manner that does not threaten the survival of Indian Muslims through a backlash, which would in turn harm the fragile secular polity.  The left sees it as a class problem or at best that of regional imbalance and because of false consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, unfit for class struggle and revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the media with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as they see them as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties and are mostly terrorists and fanatics. The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. Since funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, based in Delhi, they exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil society’ in its NGO avatar develops in Kashmir. The initiatives presently active in Kashmir have diverse ideological backgrounds.  If we count out the covert intelligence operations in the form of NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left leaning and feminists each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of fissuring of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy respectively.  While these fault-lines exist, to see them as detached from the nationality question does violence to Kashmir.  It would be like the British describing colonialism condition in India as male chauvinism or caste oppression. Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state towards a negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the seasonal olive-branch overtures by the State as Muslim appeasement, while at the same time cultivating a constituency among Pandits, and caste and class groups among Hindus in Jammu.  They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their Hinduvadi constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression through violent means.  The talks are offered and withdrawn often at the peril of those who come forward and end up being disowned by the community for the failure and embarrassment. There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir merely as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present ‘foreign hand’, that portrays all protest as political intrigue and at best a result of internal power struggle for control over resources. But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir over a longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of eternal return, of protests, repression, compromise, corruption and back to protests. Encouragement of marginalities within Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri women and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male society which is assumed to be patriarchal and dominating.  In any discussion on Kashmir, the question, ‘but what about the women, the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, Dogras, Pandits?’ and so on invariably comes up.  The centre is able to subvert the mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In turn the mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to suppress or ignore the discrimination within or around itself in response to this subversion.  In case of Kashmir, the demand for the right to self determination is hostage to the question of what happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, Hindus of Jammu and Buddhists of Ladakh.  On the other hand the dominant discourse around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various denominations at various other levels. Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ of the Indian Army in Kashmir.  It is followed by a legalistic discourse on the nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with the Indian union.  This discourse forms the backdrop against which the Kashmiris are examined and variously described: as being the symbols of Indian secularism for having willfully joined the Indian union inspite of their religious and geographical affinity with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and non-violent or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, duplicity and deceit. This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and provides a good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and denied autonomous self-definition and a dignified independent identity.  The only identities permissible to Kashmiris are the one that pass the litmus test of Indian ideals, the ideals which the Indians may themselves not have been able to uphold.  If the identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit within the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the nation.  Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and only to the extent that it serves various political purposes and then left to deal with the schizophrenic condition on their own. Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by their tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the denial of self determination only as a milestones in their long struggle for emancipation, which began much earlier and continues till date.  Kashmiris subscribing to this narrative see themselves as de-facto and temporary citizens of India who have been subjugated against their will. While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into the discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their culture, they resent its use to make them into the essence of Indian ideal and react by adopting the exact opposite stereotype.  Simultaneously the emphasis on their affinities and continuities with regions that spread beyond the de-facto borders of the Indian state—that is the connection with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to establish their separateness. While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving the issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare enormous resources, for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is as urgent as dignity, certainty and security of their selves and yet they are left with no choice but to stake their all and as long as it takes to achieve it. Self, Community and the Universe In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with myself.  I find myself marginalized from the community in which I was born because my natural intellectual and emotional trajectory pushed me to transcend my ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of and influences from the exposure to other cultures, communities and intellectual currents.  In the process I hope to evolve by contrasting these fragments and make something new out of them and thus constantly manage to recreate myself.  This I assume is a normal course of healthy life for me.  The process however distances me from my community in terms of my appearance, opinions as well as associations. But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to become too different from it in terms of my looks or my subjectivity, I would be perceived as a betrayer.  Apart from this, seeing the community under distress, I personally sense my own betrayal.  I get forced to identify with the community and represent it.  The struggle I am confronted with is how to retain the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the same time not abandon my community in distress.    The third commitment is to the universal whole, the affinity and commitment one feels towards the shared values and heritage of human community.   It is hard to negotiate commitment to self, community and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation is important since a sense of justice is at stake.  The luxury of being able to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the communal sense of victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its favour.  For example when the outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective Kashmiri identity becomes the focus of my attention. As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the same time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things.  But in this lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple marginalities at the same time.  Some marginalities I embody, like Muslim, South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, caste, rural, disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them.  I cannot have my concerns limited to myself and my community since my own victimhood shapes my identification with other marginalities. But how exactly does one locate oneself with respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one negotiate between strategy and idealism?  When do I remain silent about a particular marginality to privilege the other?  When do I maintain strategic silence about other marginalities to keep certain marginality in focus?  How does one combine these simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular marginality does not acquire fascistic proportions? This negotiation has to take place in the context where differential importance is given to marginalities by the state or dominant interests in order to subvert, fragment and hijack marginalities. One marginality is played up against the other. Demands are counter posed—something more general or ephemeral like ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like ‘bijli-sadak-pani’.  It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to vane them off the other.  The choice offered is often between dignity and basic amenities of life. Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality.  The more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a marginalized community.  This triggers one-upmanship within the marginalized group in the race to lay claim as real representatives of the marginality. One has to arrive at a position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a radical rant. In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with other marginalities without, the process of emancipation of different marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is need for an ongoing dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of claims of marginality and to resolve conflict of interest and issues of justice in the context of different marginalities working together.  There is need for democracy within the alliances of marginalities.  For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and substantive emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that constitute it or risk being fragmented or reduced to yet another chauvinistic movement.   It is only this rigorous self definition that will facilitate principled alliances with other movements and conceptions of marginality. [1]  Presented  at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of Sociology,  on March 25-26th 2010 [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats and three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! [3]  Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger Source: Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. 425-446 Published by: Springer       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 13:24:06 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 00:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <358883.30374.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com>   Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part.   --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: From: Inder Salim Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. To: "reader-list" Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms -- MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad taste and created controversy". The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind Faith' to be controversial." Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - Mumbai - City - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 13:30:23 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 01:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. In-Reply-To: <937215.84442.qm@web45509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <967152.20847.qm@web114718.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thank you we wi! that is a remarkable response coming from you.  With respect to Ramzan, i hear that the month is just about over! It is receding and not approaching. People back home must have started singing 'alvida' (goodbye) for Ramzaan already. It is the Eid that is approaching... which is 'eid ul fitr' at that... also known locally as 'choti eid' if that is too much of a tongue twister for you!  Thank you for the greetings anyway. I accept them irrespective of not being observant. --- On Mon, 9/6/10, we wi wrote: From: we wi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. To: "gowhar fazli" Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 11:58 AM The article suits best for a essay writing in a school.  For a living in INDIA things are not that much worse.  If that would be the case 100Crore+ Indians feel the same against each other.  Any way as 'Ramadan' is approaching nearer let me wish you as a gift for this mail.       Wishing you a happy ramzan.   --- On Mon, 9/6/10, gowhar fazli wrote: From: gowhar fazli Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 10:25 AM This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of political difference would benefit from your engaged responses.  Thank you. Gowhar Fazili Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 By Gowhar Fazili To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around Kashmir into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the Pakistani and the Kashmiri discourses.  While the Indian and Pakistani discourses (as detailed below), accommodate Kashmiri people and the history of their collective struggles only if, and when, these buttress their respective positions, the Kashmiri discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and fragmented politics that exists within, and the connections these have with the outside world. These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of claims and counter claims.  For those who have not borne the immediate brunt of the conflict these generate excitement and passion, and the discourse is consumed through various media like an IPL cricket match.  The Indian state and the nationalists of various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, Secularists, unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, including the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the development achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of Indian legitimacy and control in Kashmir.  Kashmiri alienation, and separatist movements figure in this narrative, if at all, variously, as consequences of external interference, uneven development, appeasement, result of one-off political mistakes made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due course when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse denies Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous political behavior. It betrays amnesia around the rich history of struggles in Kashmir that preceded accession in 1947 that still continue to inspire Kashmir. The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and dwells on the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should have been theirs by the logic of partition.  It focuses on the denial of self-determination to the people and disregard of the UN resolutions, calling for plebiscite in the region.  It recounts the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in their view the continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri Muslims feel towards Pakistan.   Though Pakistan lends moral and diplomatic support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, it devalues the nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have had with the Indian state over the last sixty years, largely independent of Pakistan. The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized position with respect to the other two discourses imagines itself to be at the centre of the current political struggle. It draws from a long history of marginalization that predates modernity, tracing back Kashmiri dislike and resistance against foreign occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the subsequent progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian regime.  It leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar Treaty), when Kashmir was sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab Singh for Seventy- five Lakh Nanakshahi rupees[2],  the excessive taxation to recover this money that followed, leading to the famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of  Kashmiris died; the systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and discrimination on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; the 13th July 1931 Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the year 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected Prime-Minister of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on charges of conspiracy and sedition, arresting along with him the socio-economic revolution that was underway.  It presumes the subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody for twenty years to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with extreme suppression, corruption and cooption.  It sees changes made over the years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in an attempt to bring Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as bulldozing of the residual safeguards against assimilation.  It cites failure of India to make progress on the various agreements and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of autonomy, etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful policy.) The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging of the JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, the mass uprising for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 when Kashmiri youth took to arms against the Indian state,  and such, form the key markers around which the narrative of victimhood and valor is woven.  Not surprisingly the Indian national days are designated as black days (including the day Indian army landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and blackout.  The narrative erases the moments of compromise and relative calm that Kashmiris have enjoyed in spurts in the intervening years giving rise to the educated, middle class which is spearheading the current separatist movement. Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns debates around these discourses emerging from respective camps.  Spokespersons, scholars, military think tanks and a significantly large number of literate and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized into the importance of each of these claims and possess ability to maneuver through controversies to establish their political claims.  The positions are entrenched and provide for little flexibility.  The dominant narratives have also found their way into the colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, humor, are expressed with reference to these moments.  To mention just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas yeeha balaay’  ‘Had not the forty-seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the year Indian Army landed in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. The expression is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through corruption. While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like people anywhere else, the fact of being born in a territory, where the conflict around its disputed nature has raged to varying degrees for over the last sixty years, complicates and intensifies concern for some identities at the cost of others.  The political uncertainty impacts different members and groups differently as they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught from within and without.  To grossly simplify, for example a large majority of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied themselves with Indian right-wing parties.  Kashmiri Shia and Sunni Muslims largely identify with the broad contours of separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, Gujjars maintain an ambivalent position depending on where they are physically, located.  People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically isolated from the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do not manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly do so for obvious reasons.  Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, people of Doda, Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu depending on which of their interests and identities are threatened at a particular moment of time.  People of Kargil gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist majority discriminates against them.  Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged discrimination by Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the Indian state. Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, gender, region, religion and political orientation. These identities contract within and extend beyond the geographical boundaries of Kashmir in different situations and along different questions. Yet it is the collective experience of a shared geography, history, language, culture and meanings that make Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri narrative presented above which at this moment has a favorable bias towards the masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends on where one is located within the crosscutting mesh of identities and experiences and intellectual trajectories. In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other identities, by race, religion and language. Physically, they do not look, sound or behave like stereotypical Indians and are often harassed and made to prove their nationality at the ticket counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside Kashmir, given the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face  difficulty in finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim ghettos; receive snares and unwelcome comments while travelling; are easy prey for the security agencies seeking instant suspects for terror attacks; cannot stick their neck out too much in day-to-day struggles so as not to risk being falsely reported; cannot easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries (for being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with the word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly illegitimate.) Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for the majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods in Kashmir, Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who deserve to be eliminated or incarcerated or insulted on the flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for ready retribution in wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, vehicles stopped, people disembarked and detained any moment and without explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to shoot people as a preventive measure against possible future terror attacks. Public Safety Act provides for preventive custody without trial even before one engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. Men, women and children are susceptible to sexual assault and torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the above experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of the Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective marginalized identity. The militants against the security forces, and the consequent deaths of Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in crossfire, or killing of assumed or real Indian agents, the damage to personal properties, cultural and religious places, though used as firewood for Indian propaganda against the separatists, enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has also resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious fundamentalists responsible and hate them for this reason. Still others have turned overly apologetic, servile and defensive. But curiously it has not resulted in increased love for India among many. The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance towards those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the dominant sense of victimhood or those who try to channelize their anger and energies differently. The identities which are in-between or fall outside the markers of dominant Kashmiri identity and victimhood are rendered invisible or sought to be assimilated or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in consonance with how radical identities often turn upon their own people who may choose divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of development like poor representation in civil services, academics, armed forces; backwardness of the region in terms of industrial development, educational infrastructure; employment opportunities within and outside the state. It also draws from the narrative of regional discrimination establishing how India has favored development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or compromisers and punish those who tried deviate or rose in opposition to the centers hegemony. This practice continues. In the present times multinational private enterprise or funding cannot move in due to instability and disturbance. Irrespective of this the deals have been struck by the government with foreign companies for example, power projects, that are complete sell-outs helped by the fact that people are alienated from the state sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. Kashmiri Responses Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a test case to understand marginality and its directions among people argues that “the marginal person, having taken on elements of the dominant culture, is unable to return unchanged to his or her original group. Thus, the marginal person is caught in a structure of double ambivalence: unable either to leave or to return to the original group; unable either to merge with the new group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to this field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here termed assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success pursued various directions in order to overcome their personal and collective sense of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four directions in which the marginalized react as suggested by Weisberger namely assimilation, return, transcendence, poise we can find parallels for each in different time periods, groups, institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. Kashmiris have also produced a wide range of political, intellectual and strategic responses that range over categories like: separatists, autonomists, Islamists, secularist, loyalist, anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, apologist, radical, pacifist, self loathing and a myriad of other responses, many, still nascent and yet to be born.    (I have to develop this) One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh attempt to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill introduced in the Legislative assembly.  The bill seeks to over-rule the High Court decision against the provision that renders a woman non state subject if she marries a non-state-subject.  The same does not apply to men who marry outside.  Interestingly BJP and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have started protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, betraying support through the lack of outrage among various political groups.  The silence is symptomatic of the male patriarchal bias in the dominant discourse in Kashmir.  Not to say that BJP and its allies are by any means less patriarchal.  They possibly see the women’s matrimony as a means to extend their connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to increase their likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is assumed to be more common among Hindus in Jammu. Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along communal and regional lines.  While the right wing Hindu formations fanned sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim separatists and mainstream regional parties saw the move as yet another attempt to change demography in Kashmir, since the shrine board included individuals who were non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the controversy provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. Indian Responses The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, apathy or disdain.  Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent on or apathetic towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not share blood ties or see commonality of interest with Kashmiris.  Those who empathize, have their empathies conditioned by their location within the mainstream Indian politics.  Indian intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own respective projects rather than look at it from the point of view of Kashmiris and their history.  Similarly Indian Muslims and their sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect Kashmiris to behave in a manner that does not threaten the survival of Indian Muslims through a backlash, which would in turn harm the fragile secular polity.  The left sees it as a class problem or at best that of regional imbalance and because of false consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, unfit for class struggle and revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the media with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as they see them as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties and are mostly terrorists and fanatics. The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. Since funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, based in Delhi, they exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil society’ in its NGO avatar develops in Kashmir. The initiatives presently active in Kashmir have diverse ideological backgrounds.  If we count out the covert intelligence operations in the form of NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left leaning and feminists each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of fissuring of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy respectively.  While these fault-lines exist, to see them as detached from the nationality question does violence to Kashmir.  It would be like the British describing colonialism condition in India as male chauvinism or caste oppression. Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state towards a negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the seasonal olive-branch overtures by the State as Muslim appeasement, while at the same time cultivating a constituency among Pandits, and caste and class groups among Hindus in Jammu.  They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their Hinduvadi constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression through violent means.  The talks are offered and withdrawn often at the peril of those who come forward and end up being disowned by the community for the failure and embarrassment. There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir merely as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present ‘foreign hand’, that portrays all protest as political intrigue and at best a result of internal power struggle for control over resources. But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir over a longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of eternal return, of protests, repression, compromise, corruption and back to protests. Encouragement of marginalities within Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri women and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male society which is assumed to be patriarchal and dominating.  In any discussion on Kashmir, the question, ‘but what about the women, the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, Dogras, Pandits?’ and so on invariably comes up.  The centre is able to subvert the mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In turn the mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to suppress or ignore the discrimination within or around itself in response to this subversion.  In case of Kashmir, the demand for the right to self determination is hostage to the question of what happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, Hindus of Jammu and Buddhists of Ladakh.  On the other hand the dominant discourse around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various denominations at various other levels. Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ of the Indian Army in Kashmir.  It is followed by a legalistic discourse on the nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with the Indian union.  This discourse forms the backdrop against which the Kashmiris are examined and variously described: as being the symbols of Indian secularism for having willfully joined the Indian union inspite of their religious and geographical affinity with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and non-violent or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, duplicity and deceit. This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and provides a good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and denied autonomous self-definition and a dignified independent identity.  The only identities permissible to Kashmiris are the one that pass the litmus test of Indian ideals, the ideals which the Indians may themselves not have been able to uphold.  If the identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit within the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the nation.  Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and only to the extent that it serves various political purposes and then left to deal with the schizophrenic condition on their own. Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by their tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the denial of self determination only as a milestones in their long struggle for emancipation, which began much earlier and continues till date.  Kashmiris subscribing to this narrative see themselves as de-facto and temporary citizens of India who have been subjugated against their will. While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into the discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their culture, they resent its use to make them into the essence of Indian ideal and react by adopting the exact opposite stereotype.  Simultaneously the emphasis on their affinities and continuities with regions that spread beyond the de-facto borders of the Indian state—that is the connection with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to establish their separateness. While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving the issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare enormous resources, for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is as urgent as dignity, certainty and security of their selves and yet they are left with no choice but to stake their all and as long as it takes to achieve it. Self, Community and the Universe In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with myself.  I find myself marginalized from the community in which I was born because my natural intellectual and emotional trajectory pushed me to transcend my ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of and influences from the exposure to other cultures, communities and intellectual currents.  In the process I hope to evolve by contrasting these fragments and make something new out of them and thus constantly manage to recreate myself.  This I assume is a normal course of healthy life for me.  The process however distances me from my community in terms of my appearance, opinions as well as associations. But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to become too different from it in terms of my looks or my subjectivity, I would be perceived as a betrayer.  Apart from this, seeing the community under distress, I personally sense my own betrayal.  I get forced to identify with the community and represent it.  The struggle I am confronted with is how to retain the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the same time not abandon my community in distress.    The third commitment is to the universal whole, the affinity and commitment one feels towards the shared values and heritage of human community.   It is hard to negotiate commitment to self, community and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation is important since a sense of justice is at stake.  The luxury of being able to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the communal sense of victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its favour.  For example when the outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective Kashmiri identity becomes the focus of my attention. As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the same time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things.  But in this lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple marginalities at the same time.  Some marginalities I embody, like Muslim, South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, caste, rural, disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them.  I cannot have my concerns limited to myself and my community since my own victimhood shapes my identification with other marginalities. But how exactly does one locate oneself with respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one negotiate between strategy and idealism?  When do I remain silent about a particular marginality to privilege the other?  When do I maintain strategic silence about other marginalities to keep certain marginality in focus?  How does one combine these simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular marginality does not acquire fascistic proportions? This negotiation has to take place in the context where differential importance is given to marginalities by the state or dominant interests in order to subvert, fragment and hijack marginalities. One marginality is played up against the other. Demands are counter posed—something more general or ephemeral like ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like ‘bijli-sadak-pani’.  It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to vane them off the other.  The choice offered is often between dignity and basic amenities of life. Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality.  The more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a marginalized community.  This triggers one-upmanship within the marginalized group in the race to lay claim as real representatives of the marginality. One has to arrive at a position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a radical rant. In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with other marginalities without, the process of emancipation of different marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is need for an ongoing dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of claims of marginality and to resolve conflict of interest and issues of justice in the context of different marginalities working together.  There is need for democracy within the alliances of marginalities.  For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and substantive emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that constitute it or risk being fragmented or reduced to yet another chauvinistic movement.   It is only this rigorous self definition that will facilitate principled alliances with other movements and conceptions of marginality. [1]  Presented  at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of Sociology,  on March 25-26th 2010 [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats and three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! [3]  Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger Source: Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. 425-446 Published by: Springer       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 13:53:00 2010 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 13:53:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'New Book Concludes: Chernobyl death toll: 985, 000, mostly from cancer ' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sukla Sen New Book Concludes: Chernobyl death toll: 985,000, mostly from cancer Karl Grossman This past April 26th marked the 24th anniversary of the Chernobyl nuclear plant accident. It came as the nuclear industry and pro-nuclear government officials in the United States and other nations were trying to "revive" nuclear power. And it followed the publication of a book, the most comprehensive study ever made, on the impacts of the Chernobyl disaster. Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment was published by the New York Academy of Sciences. It is authored by three noted scientists: Russian biologist Dr. Alexey Yablokov, former environmental advisor to the Russian president; Dr. Alexey Nesterenko, a biologist and ecologist in Belarus; and Dr.Vassili Nesterenko, a physicist and at the time of the accident director of the Institute of Nuclear Energy of the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus. Its editor is Dr. Janette Sherman, a physician and toxicologist long-involved in studying the health impacts of radioactivity. The book is solidly based--on health data, radiological surveys and scientific reports--some 5,000 in all. It concludes that based on records now available, some 985,000 people died, mainly of cancer, as a result of theChernobyl accident. That is between when the accident occurred in 1986 and 2004. More deaths, it projects, will follow. The book explodes the claim of the International Atomic Energy Agency--still on its website that the expected death toll from the Chernobyl accident will be 4,000. The IAEA, the new book shows, is underestimating, to the extreme, the casualties of Chernobyl. Alice Slater, representative in New York of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, comments: "The tragic news uncovered by the comprehensive new research that almost one million people died in the toxic aftermath of Chernobyl should be a wake-up call to people all over the world to petition their governments to put a halt to the current industry-driven "nuclear renaissance.' Aided by a corrupt IAEA, the world has been subjected to a massive cover-up and deception about the true damages caused by Chernobyl." Further worsening the situation, she said, has been "the collusive agreement between the IAEA and the World Health Organization in which the WHO is precluded from publishing any research on radiation effects without consultation with the IAEA." WHO, the public health arm of the UN, has supported the IAEA's claim that 4,000 will die as a result of the accident. "How fortunate," said Ms. Slater, "that independent scientists have now revealed the horrific costs of the Chernobyl accident." The book also scores the position of the IAEA, set up through the UN in 1957 "to accelerate and enlarge the contribution of atomic energy," and its 1959 agreement with WHO. There is a "need to change," it says, the IAEA-WHO pact. It has muzzled the WHO, providing for the "hiding" from the "public of any information"unwanted" by the nuclear industry. "An important lesson from the Chernobyl experience is that experts and organizations tied to the nuclear industry have dismissed and ignored the consequences of the catastrophe," it states. The book details the spread of radioactive poisons following the explosion of Unit 4 of the Chernobyl nuclear plant on April 26, 1986. These major releases only ended when the fire at the reactor was brought under control in mid-May. Emitted were "hundreds of millions of curies, a quantity hundreds of times larger than the fallout from the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki." The most extensive fall-out occurred in regions closest to the plant--in the Ukraine (the reactor was 60 miles from Kiev in Ukraine), Belarus and Russia. However, there was fallout all over the world as the winds kept changing direction "so the radioactive emissions"covered an enormous territory." The radioactive poisons sent billowing from the plant into the air included Cesium-137, Plutonium, Iodine-131 and Strontium-90. There is a breakdown by country, highlighted by maps, of where the radionuclides fell out. Beyond Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, the countries included Bulgaria, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Poland, Sweden and the United Kingdom. The radiological measurements show that some 10% of Chernobyl poisons "fell on Asia"Huge areas" of eastern Turkey and central China "were highly contaminated," reports the book. Northwestern Japan was impacted, too. Northern Africa was hit with "more than 5% of all Chernobyl releases." The finding of Cesium-137 and both Plutonium-239 and Plutonium-240 "in accumulated Nile River sediment is evidence of significant Chernobyl contamination," it states. "Areas of North America were contaminated from the first, most powerful explosion, which lifted a cloud of radionuclides to a height of more than 10 km. Some 1% of all Chernobyl nuclides," says the book, "fell on North America." The consequences on public health are extensively analyzed. Medical records involving children--the young, their cells more rapidly multiplying, are especially affected by radioactivity--are considered. Before the accident, more than 80% of the children in the territories of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia extensively contaminated by Chernobyl "were healthy," the book reports, based on health data. But "today fewer than 20% are well." There is an examination of genetic impacts with records reflecting an increase in "chromosomal aberrations" wherever there was fallout. This will continue through the "children of irradiated parents for as many as seven generations." So "the genetic consequences of the Chernobyl catastrophe will impact hundreds of millions of people." As to deaths, the list of countries and consequences begins with Belarus. "For the period 1900-2000 cancer mortality in Belarus increased 40%," it states, again based on medical data and illuminated by tables in the book. "The increase was a maximum in the most highly contaminated Gomel Province and lower in the less contaminated Brest and Mogilev provinces." They include childhood cancers, thyroid cancer, leukemia and other cancers. Considering health data of people in all nations impacted by the fallout, the "overall mortality for the period from April 1986 to the end of 2004 from the Chernobyl catastrophe was estimated as 985,000 additional deaths." Further, "the concentrations" of some of the poisons, because they have radioactive half-lives ranging from 20,000 to 200,000 years, "will remain practically the same virtually forever." The book also examines the impact on plants and animals. "Immediately after the catastrophe, the frequency of plant mutations in the contaminated territories increased sharply." There are photographs of some of these plant mutations. "Chernobyl irradiation has caused many structural anomalies and tumorlike changes in many plant species and has led to genetic disorders, sometimes continuing for many years," it says. "Twenty-three years after the catastrophe it is still too early to know if the whole spectrum of plant radiogenic changes has been discerned. We are far from knowing all of the consequences for flora resulting from the catastrophe." As to animals, the book notes "serious increases in morbidity and mortality that bear striking resemblance to changes in the public health of humans--increasing tumor rates, immunodeficiencies, and decreasing life expectancy." In one study it is found that "survival rates of barn swallows in the most contaminated sites near the Chernobyl nuclear power plant are close to zero. In areas of moderate contamination, annual survival is less than 25%." Research is cited into ghastly abnormalities in barn swallows that do hatch: "two heads, two tails." "In 1986," the book states, "the level of irradiation in plants and animals in Western Europe, North America, the Arctic, and eastern Asia were sometimes hundreds and even thousands of times above acceptable norms." In its final chapter, the book declares that the explosion of the Chernobyl nuclear plant "was the worst technogenic accident in history." And it examines "obstacles" to the reporting of the true consequences of Chernobyl with a special focus on "organizations associated with the nuclear industry" that "protect the industry first--not the public." Here, the IAEA and WHO are charged. The book ends by quoting U.S. President John F. Kennedy's call in 1963 for an end of atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons."The Chernobyl catastrophe," it declares, "demonstrates that the nuclear industry's willingness to risk the health of humanity and our environment with nuclear power plants will result, not only theoretically, but practically, in the same level of hazard as nuclear weapons." Dr. Sherman, speaking of the IAEA's and WHO's dealing with the impacts of Chernobyl, commented: "It's like Dracula guarding the blood bank." The 1959 agreement under which WHO "is not to be independent of the IAEA" but must clear any information it obtains on issues involving radioactivity with the IAEA has put "the two in bed together." Of her reflections on 14 months editing the book, she said: "Every single system that was studied--whether human or wolves or livestock or fish or trees or mushrooms or bacteria--all were changed, some of them irreversibly. The scope of the damage is stunning." In his foreword, Dr. Dimitro Grodzinsky, chairman of the Ukranian National Commission on Radiation Protection, writes about how "apologists of nuclear power" sought to hide the real impacts of the Chernobyl disaster from the time when the accident occurred. The book "provides the largest and most complete collection of data concerning the negative consequences of Chernobyl on the health of people and the environment...The main conclusion of the book is that it is impossible and wrong "to forget Chernobyl.'" In the record of Big Lies, the claim of the IAEA-WHO that "only" 4,000 people will die as a result of the Chernobyl catastrophe is among the biggest. The Chernobyl accident is, as the new book documents, an ongoing global catastrophe. And it is a clear call for no new nuclear power plants to be built and for the closing of the dangerous atomic machines now running--and a switch to safe energy technologies, now available, led by solar and wind energy, that will not leave nearly a million people dead from one disaster. -- Peace Is Doable From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Sep 6 14:09:55 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (nmf2010) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:39:55 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_37_-__NewMediaFest=27?= =?iso-8859-1?q?2010?= Message-ID: <20100906103955.7A7DB6F7.AE8C72D8@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest’2010 --------------------------------------------------------- program- week 37 ---> 6-12 September 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1024 --------------------------------------------------------- Feature of the Week 37 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1027 A Virtual Memorial Foundation Memorial for the Victims of Terror http://terror.a-virtual-memorial.org/ On occasion of the 9th return of the 11 September attacks 2001, A Virtual Memorial Foundation is relaunching the -Memorial for the Victims of Terror- -------------------------------------------------------- 2. -------------------------------------------------------- Feature of the Month September 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1015 VideoChannel Cologne is pleased to launch the Feature of the Month September --> Fonlad Festival, Videolab Project Portugal and artvideoKOELN present Videoart from Portugal curated by Pedro Almeida & Sergio Gomes ------------------------------------------------------- 3. ------------------------------------------------------- Feature of the Month September 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1017 SoundLAB VII - soundCELEBRATION was releasing on 1 September 2010, the 7th edition of SoundLAB in sequence since 2004, celebrating soundart at it’s best on occasion of the 10th anniversáry of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]||cologne as the highlight of 7 years promoting soundart as a creative form of digital art. ------------------------------------------------------- 4.. ------------------------------------------------------- SIP - SoundLAB Interview Project http://sip.newmediafest.org/?p=414 is pleased to release the new interviews with Luke Munn (NZ) Gaia Bartolini (Italy) Dario Lazzaretto (Italy) John Transue (USA) Philip Mantione (USA) Guenther Schlienz (Germany) --------------------------------------------------------- NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org ---------------------------------------------------- From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 15:35:13 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 15:35:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: <358883.30374.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <358883.30374.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks dear Kshmendra "This is the first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron brigade but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like CWG This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing words it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad best is On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > To: "reader-list" > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms > -- > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad > taste and created controversy". > > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. > > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. > > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind > Faith' to be controversial." > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - > Mumbai - City - The Times of India > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From yasir.media at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 15:52:34 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?IHlhc2lyIH7ZitinINiz2LE=?=) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 15:22:34 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Tue 12pm - Reach-out & Training for NGOs & Volunteers in Flood Relief In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sahana Pakistan Flood Response 2010 *____________________________* * * Reach-out & Training for NGOs & Volunteers in Flood Relief ____________________________ Tomorrow 06 September 2010, Tuesday Time 2:00pm - 2:00pm Location HEC (Higher Education Commission), *Next **to TV Station, Stadium Road* * * *** We would appreciate a note of confirmation if you are attending. Thanks. Yasir* More Info Participants will be made familiar with the use of features, while we ask for suggestions (for development priorities) based on flood relief activities being undertaken by participants organizations/groups. You send 2-3 people to our training session. Ideally this would be 1-2 persons of staff and 1 technical person (who can troubleshoot later as needed). These people can then brief other people. For details on what this is about see email below or : http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sahana-Pakistan-Flood-Response-2010/145586795481844?v=info *Streaming*: Yes (please confirm tomorrow) https://streaming.hec.gov.pk/ --------------------------- From: yasir ~يا سر Date: Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:30 PM * * *** To Everyone involved in Flood Relief* *** Organizations and Individuals* *** Please attend & fwd to friends and colleagues* Dear friends I am involved with this great team of volunteers who are all professionals and entrepreneurs in the IT area. Many of these are involved in social and relief work under normal circumstances. They have come together to provide a software solution to the chaos and mismanagement that occurs when trying to provide and plan for flood relief on large scale. The team has already customized the Sahana Eden software (being offered for free) for flood relief work in Pakistan, and is continuing software development to how NGOs, volunteers & volunteer organizations and district committees might better utilize what it offers - a way to quickly manage, match and coordinate disaster relief with many others in an ongoing way through cooperation. We are holding a briefing & training session on *Monday or Tuesday*. Please state when you can attend, and help spread the word. If you would like to help in development or other area, let us know. A team is about to visit Thatta and Sukkur - get in touch to schedule a meeting. More will follow. Best wishes, yasir ~يا سر A number of organizations are already on board: + The Citizen Foundation, + Air Force Southern Command, + PILER, + PFF Pakistan Fisherfolk Forum [northern Sindh, coastal areas, makli, dadu] + Sindh labour Relief Committee [Hub, Moro, Thatta, Makli] + Sindh Social Forum + Digital Activists Group DAG + IDSP + others we are also talking to: + TRDP Thardeep Rural Support programme [Dadu, Jamshoro, Khairpur and Thar Districts] + SRSO [9 districts in sindh] + Edhi Foundation + Other citizen, activist, environmental, academic, culture, volunteer groups * * * * *SAHANA in Pakistan August 2010* * * http://pakistan.sahanafoundation.org/eden/default/about http://pakistan.sahanafoundation.org/eden/default/contact * * *The SAHANA project for flood relief invites NGOs and individuals* The Sahana project is a web-based disaster relief management tool for large-scale humanitarian disasters. The Software tool has been customized for flood relief management in Pakistan, in which organizations' and individuals' expertise, particular needs and pledges, and incidents and relief services are matched, coordinated and tracked. Many organizations are already on board. As more come on board, effectiveness of aid where it is needed, will increase. Website Sahana Eden in Pakistan 2010: http://pakistan.sahanafoundation.org/eden/default/index Organizations, NGOs, volunteers, journalists and activists working in Flood Relief efforts are invited to use the system for relief & rehab, to their advantage. Organizations are individually registered and may track their own work and supplies. Training is being provided to organizations and volunteers to use the software, which also uses reporting through mobile phones. Sahana Eden is integrated with the Pakreport site http://pakreport.org/ushahidi/ to which anyone can send an SMS report. One can send the SMS to 3441 and start the message with FL followed by text - a flood related report, need, or update. * * *Training Sessions* Organizations may request briefing and training sessions. Please contact: Azhar Rizvi azharrizvi [at] gmail [dot] com Yasir Husain yasir [dot] media [at] gmai [dot] com * * *Sahana's Pakistan Team* Sahana's Flood Relief Management effort is led by Azhar Rizvi (TAN America Fund I, LP, MIT Enterprise Forum of Pakistan and Rotary International). Sahana Foundation's international team works with a Pakistani team customizing and continuously developing the software in Pakistan. In addition the team includes several IT departments in Pakistan, the Higher Education Commission (HEC), and an initial group of volunteers: Imran Haider (saphirecs.net ) , Adnan Masood, Adnan Lawai (folio3.com ), Ayal Abbas (Sofcom), Sarfaraz Malik, Asif Hussain, Dr. Shoaib, Dr. Najmi, Hasnain Akhtar, Adnan Masood, Yasir Husain (Media Theory), and Zuhair Siddiqui. Sahana Pakistan users' group: http://groups.google.com/group/sahana-pakistan-2010 *SAHANA Overview * *The software itself is expensive running into six figures, and is being offered by Sahana Foundation for use in Pakistan for free. *The Sahana Agasti project has seven [7] modules that address common disaster coordination and collaboration problems. Sahana Eden is being customized and localized at the moment and may have some of the same features: ***Request/Pledge Management System:* An online repository where all relief organizations, relief workers, government agents and camps can effectively match requests of aid and supplies to pledges of support. It tracks aid provision from request to fulfillment. *Organization Registry*: A collaborative “Who is doing what, where” tool which enables tracking of the relief organizations and other stakeholders working in the disaster region. It captures information about the places where each organization is active and the range of services being provided. *Shelter Registry:* Keeps track of the location and basic data of shelters in the region. It also provides a geospatial view to plot the location of the camps in the affected area. *Inventory Management*: Tracking the location, quantities, expiry of supplies stored for utilization in a disaster *Situation Awareness:* Gives an overview of the event and allows people to add information on what is happening on the ground. It features the ability to plot a note and a photo with additional information on a Map, so that people can collaboratively capture the current disaster situation. *Volunteer coordination:* Helps NGOs keep track of all their volunteers, their contact information, project allocation, availability and skills to help them distribute staff resources. *Missing Person Registry:* An online bulletin board of missing and found people. It captures information about the people missing and found, and also the information of the person seeking them. Sahana also includes tools for synchronization between multiple instances, allowing for *responders or district offices* to capture data on instances in the field and exchange the data with other field offices, headquarters or responders *Past Deployment by Sahana* ** Sahana Agasti** Tsunami - Sri Lanka 2005 - Officially deployed in the CNO for the Government of Sri Lanka AsianQuake - Pakistan 2005 - Officially deployed with NADRA for the Government of Pakistan Southern Leyte Mudslide Disaster - Philippines 2006 - Officially deployed with the NDCC and ODC for the Government of Philippines Sarvodaya - Sri Lanka 2006 - Deployed for Sri Lanka's largest NGO Terre des Hommes - Sri Lanka 2006 - Deployed with new Child Protection Module Yogjakarta Earthquake - Indonesia 2006 - Deployed by ACS, urRemote and Indonesian whitewater association and Indonesian Rescue Source Peru Earthquake - Peru 2007 - Deployed and localized into Spanish. Myanmar Cyclone - Myanmar 2008- Currently working in progress to deploy and localize into Burmese. ** Sahana Eden ** (for rapid deployment & customization) Haiti Earthquake - Haiti 2010- Currently working in progress to deploy and localize into Port-au-Prince and Haiti. Pakistan Floods - 2010 - under deployment *Tech Details * Developers: Sahana Software Foundation Sahana Agasti release 0.6.3 / 2010-0407 written in PHP, Javascript, Perl, HTML Operating system Cross-platform Platform Apache, MySQL License: LGPL Sahana Eden r1156 (2010-09-01 07:49:23) (on 03Sep2010 pakistan.sahanafoundation.org) written in Python, & based on the web2py framework License: MIT Sahana Agasti is available in English - Language packs available for v.0.6.2.2 for Arabic, Bahasa Indonesian, Bengali, Burmese, Simplified Chinese, English/UK, English/US, German, Hindi, Portuguese & Portuguese/Brazil, Russian, Sinhala, Spanish, Spanish/Latin America, and Tamil. Sahana Eden information is being updated as the software is being customized. for more information: Website: http://www.sahanafoundation.org , Sahana Eden in Pakistan: http://pakistan.sahanafoundation.org/eden/default/index Azhar Rizvi azharrizvi [at] gmail [dot] com Yasir Husain yasir [dot] media [at] gmai [dot] com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 16:24:31 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 03:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <891709.43725.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Inder   It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake.   The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre.   On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no great reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable if Nehru Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did not want to risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before taking the action though that is not alluded to. That is sensible.    Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to "saffron". In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda.   If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step forward and give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these whines about "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" and "decaying food grains"   You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things addressed by your own participation in the political processes or interventions through RTI and Courts of Law.   Kshmendra   PS. Do you have anything other than whines?   --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim wrote: From: Inder Salim Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. To: "reader-list" Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM Thanks dear Kshmendra "This is the first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron brigade but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like CWG This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing words it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad best is On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > To: "reader-list" > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms > -- > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad > taste and created controversy". > > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. > > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. > > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind > Faith' to be controversial." > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - > Mumbai - City - The Times of India > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 23:12:02 2010 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 23:12:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_Culture_Cafe=3A_The_world_was_neve?= =?utf-8?b?ciDvrIJhdA==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Culture Cafe, CMCS, invites you to a talk titled The world was never flat: early global encounters and the messiness of empire by Mona Domosh Department of Geography, Dartmouth College Date: 9th of September 2010 Time: 6 pm. Place: Room 4, Main Campus, TISS, Mumbai Abstract: The world was never flat: early global encounters and the messiness of empire Thomas Friedman’s 2005 book The world is fl at was meant as a wake-up call to those in the United States who direct its corporate boardrooms and govern its political/economic state, a warning that globalization has brought about a level economic ‘playing fi eld’ in which the United States might be losing the game. As rhetoric, the title certainly works well to raise fears about North America’s future economic role. It also works in concretizing a popular view of globalization, a view that obscures its uneven, discordant, and decidedly unfl at processes and practices. In this paper I help deconstruct this view by fl eshing out the everyday ways through which United States expanded economically in its early (1890–1927) global empire. Based on archival work in Argentina, Russia, Scotland, and the United States, I provide a historical look at encounters between North American business men and women and their foreign customers, students, and workers. Focusing on the diverse practices and personal encounters that were critical to the early global efforts of select United States-based corporations, I expose the uneven, contested, and messy ways in which economic expansion works. By analyzing early global encounters when the economic dominance of the United States was just becoming apparent, I am able to highlight the sheer complexity and truly relational nature of United States’ expansion in the early twentieth century. About the Speaker: Mona Domosh is a Professor of Geography at Dartmouth College. Her talk today is based on a large project that is investigating the practices of United States-based global companies in the first quarter of the 20th century. Her previous books include American Commodities in an Age of Empire (2006), Putting Women in Place (2001, co-written with Joni Seager), and Invented Cities (1996). From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 10:19:49 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:19:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies solutions Message-ID: Printed from Khaki enemy? 60,000 Kashmiris apply for 3,000 police jobs M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, 2010, 01.30am IST SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks and threats of social boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw for young job hunters in employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls by hardliners to shun the khaki force, nearly 60,000 men applied for less than 3,000 jobs in J&K police -- about 200 applicants for one constable's post. The applications piled up over the last few months, about the time when the situation in the Valley appeared to be spinning out of control with the cops particularly being at the receiving end of public wrath. J&K police DG Kuldeep Khoda said the department has received 58,975 applications, against 2,786 vacancies across the Valley. "The response from (the worst-hit) Srinagar and Budgam districts was even more heartening," he said. "We've received 2,860 applications, against 529 posts in Srinagar district, while 8053 against 283 in Budgam," he said. Lack of jobs has been a big spur for the protests that brought thousands of young educated men on to the streets. Official estimates of the number of unemployed in the Valley stands at 3 lakhs. Khoda told reporters the department held a recruitment rally in Baramulla district in July and was overwhelmed with the response. "Over 8,000 people turned up for 412 posts despite turmoil in the district," he said, and added that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said the department was mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives across the Valley, particularly in Srinagar's downtown area to end the unrest. The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and insubordination. He claimed no police personnel had quit since mid-June when Kashmir erupted in anger against the alleged staged encounter of three north Kashmir youth and a 17-year-old boy's killing in police action. Over 60 people, including women and children, have died in police firing on protesters since then. State government sources said J&K CM Omar Abdullah, who has called for a proactive approach including the phased revocation of the controversial Armed Forces Special Forces Act to deal with street protests, has ordered creation of more police jobs to induct youth from the troubled areas. Meanwhile, in its ongoing drive to reach out to the people, Kashmir range IGP Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended police-public meetings in Ganderbal and Budgam districts. "At Ganderbal District Police Lines, around 300 people including senior citizens and sarpanchs participated," a police spokesman said. "Sahai assured the people that police will adopt maximum restraint while dealing with law and order situations." From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Tue Sep 7 13:58:25 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 01:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions Message-ID: <127491.27543.qm@web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > I don't like the heading "Why Kashmir > defies solutions". > > It is in these moments that the real desperation and loss > of self of Kashmiris as a people becomes evident. For > livelihood they have to stoop before the same institutions > that torment them or that they abhor for obvious reasons. > This contradiction that runs through their very selves, > prevents people from acquiring a full blown human-hood. > > There should be no guilt or indignity associated with > acquiring of livelihood through legitimate means, but this > is the case one way or the other, for most people in > Kashmir. The boundaries between legitimate and illegitimate > are dizzyingly fuzzy because of the manner in which the > selves are split. > > If not for any other but for the indignities involved in > the status quo that Kashmir issue should be resolved for > good. > > --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar > wrote: > > > From: SJabbar > > Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies solutions > > To: "Sarai" > > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM > > Printed from > > > > Khaki enemy? 60,000 Kashmiris apply for 3,000 police > jobs > > M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, 2010, 01.30am IST > > SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks > and > > threats of social > > boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw for > young > > job hunters in > > employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls by > hardliners to > > shun the khaki > > force, nearly 60,000 men applied for less than 3,000 > jobs > > in J&K police -- > > about 200 applicants for one constable's post. > > > > The applications piled up over the last few months, > about > > the time when the > > situation in the Valley appeared to be spinning out > of > > control with the cops > > particularly being at the receiving end of public > wrath. > > > > J&K police DG Kuldeep Khoda said the department > has > > received 58,975 > > applications, against 2,786 vacancies across the > Valley. > > "The response from > > (the worst-hit) Srinagar and Budgam districts was even > more > > heartening," he > > said. "We've received 2,860 applications, against 529 > posts > > in Srinagar > > district, while 8053 against 283 in Budgam," he said. > > > > Lack of jobs has been a big spur for the protests > that > > brought thousands of > > young educated men on to the streets. Official > estimates of > > the number of > > unemployed in the Valley stands at 3 lakhs. > > > > Khoda told reporters the department held a > recruitment > > rally in Baramulla > > district in July and was overwhelmed with the > response. > > "Over 8,000 people > > turned up for 412 posts despite turmoil in the > district," > > he said, and added > > that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said > the > > department was > > mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives across > the > > Valley, particularly > > in Srinagar's downtown area to end the unrest. > > > > The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and > > insubordination. He claimed > > no police personnel had quit since mid-June when > Kashmir > > erupted in anger > > against the alleged staged encounter of three north > Kashmir > > youth and a > > 17-year-old boy's killing in police action. Over 60 > people, > > including women > > and children, have died in police firing on > protesters > > since then. > > > > State government sources said J&K CM Omar > Abdullah, who > > has called for a > > proactive approach including the phased revocation of > the > > controversial > > Armed Forces Special Forces Act to deal with street > > protests, has ordered > > creation of more police jobs to induct youth from the > > troubled areas. > > > > Meanwhile, in its ongoing drive to reach out to the > people, > > Kashmir range > > IGP Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended police-public > meetings in > > Ganderbal and > > Budgam districts. "At Ganderbal District Police > Lines, > > around 300 people > > including senior citizens and sarpanchs participated," > a > > police spokesman > > said. "Sahai assured the people that police will > adopt > > maximum restraint > > while dealing with law and order situations." > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       > From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:10:58 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:10:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: <127491.27543.qm@web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: But Gowhar, what happens when a man who hitherto abhors an institution joins it? What happens to that extreme emotion when the line is crossed, when the uniform is donned, when the 'danda' drops firmly into his hands? By your logic all those who joined the force post-1990 once abhorred the institution and now have become the oppressors. And those who pelt stones at the oppressors now want to join the same hated institution only to become future oppressors? Not one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may understand this, but I have to tell you, it's left me totally perplexed. On 07/09/10 1:58 PM, "gowhar fazli" wrote: >> I don't like the heading "Why Kashmir > defies solutions". > > It is in >> these moments that the real desperation and loss > of self of Kashmiris as a >> people becomes evident. For > livelihood they have to stoop before the same >> institutions > that torment them or that they abhor for obvious reasons. > >> This contradiction that runs through their very selves, > prevents people >> from acquiring a full blown human-hood. > > There should be no guilt or >> indignity associated with > acquiring of livelihood through legitimate means, >> but this > is the case one way or the other, for most people in > Kashmir. >> The boundaries between legitimate and illegitimate > are dizzyingly fuzzy >> because of the manner in which the > selves are split. > > If not for any >> other but for the indignities involved in > the status quo that Kashmir issue >> should be resolved for > good. > > --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >> > wrote: > > > From: SJabbar >> > > Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >> solutions > > To: "Sarai" > > Date: Tuesday, >> September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM > > Printed from > > > > Khaki enemy? 60,000 >> Kashmiris apply for 3,000 police > jobs > > M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, >> 2010, 01.30am IST > > SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks > >> and > > threats of social > > boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw >> for > young > > job hunters in > > employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls >> by > hardliners to > > shun the khaki > > force, nearly 60,000 men applied >> for less than 3,000 > jobs > > in J&K police -- > > about 200 applicants for >> one constable's post. > > > > The applications piled up over the last few >> months, > about > > the time when the > > situation in the Valley appeared to >> be spinning out > of > > control with the cops > > particularly being at the >> receiving end of public > wrath. > > > > J&K police DG Kuldeep Khoda said >> the department > has > > received 58,975 > > applications, against 2,786 >> vacancies across the > Valley. > > "The response from > > (the worst-hit) >> Srinagar and Budgam districts was even > more > > heartening," he > > said. >> "We've received 2,860 applications, against 529 > posts > > in Srinagar > > >> district, while 8053 against 283 in Budgam," he said. > > > > Lack of jobs >> has been a big spur for the protests > that > > brought thousands of > > >> young educated men on to the streets. Official > estimates of > > the number >> of > > unemployed in the Valley stands at 3 lakhs. > > > > Khoda told >> reporters the department held a > recruitment > > rally in Baramulla > > >> district in July and was overwhelmed with the > response. > > "Over 8,000 >> people > > turned up for 412 posts despite turmoil in the > district," > > he >> said, and added > > that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said > >> the > > department was > > mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives >> across > the > > Valley, particularly > > in Srinagar's downtown area to end >> the unrest. > > > > The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and > > >> insubordination. He claimed > > no police personnel had quit since mid-June >> when > Kashmir > > erupted in anger > > against the alleged staged encounter >> of three north > Kashmir > > youth and a > > 17-year-old boy's killing in >> police action. Over 60 > people, > > including women > > and children, have >> died in police firing on > protesters > > since then. > > > > State >> government sources said J&K CM Omar > Abdullah, who > > has called for a > > >> proactive approach including the phased revocation of > the > > >> controversial > > Armed Forces Special Forces Act to deal with street > > >> protests, has ordered > > creation of more police jobs to induct youth from >> the > > troubled areas. > > > > Meanwhile, in its ongoing drive to reach out >> to the > people, > > Kashmir range > > IGP Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended >> police-public > meetings in > > Ganderbal and > > Budgam districts. "At >> Ganderbal District Police > Lines, > > around 300 people > > including senior >> citizens and sarpanchs participated," > a > > police spokesman > > said. >> "Sahai assured the people that police will > adopt > > maximum restraint > > >> while dealing with law and order situations." > > >> _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion >> list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To >> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe >> in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       > >> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion >> list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an >> email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> header. To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Tue Sep 7 17:03:09 2010 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 04:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions Message-ID: <897678.91179.qm@web112611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> conversation on this with gowhar in FB group 'Moderate Voice of Jammu, Kashmir & Ladakh' (relevant portions)   aalok - i quite like the philosophy of what you have written as being a universally found dichotomy i suggest it might not be fully applicable to the case in question you seem to suggest that there are no kashmiris who do not subscribe to the 'separatist' agenda and none are more than willing to be a part of the institutions of the currently (non)functioning State .... in this case the police that might not be factual often in these discussions we seem to confuse between two distinct positions in this group itself, like me, there are scores of members who find totally unacceptable the deaths that are taking place in kashmir and at the same time would swear by their indianness ..... the two are not mutually exclusive similarly, in kashmir, is it incredulous that there are people who find "totally unacceptable the deaths that are taking place" and at the same time are more than willing to be part of the institutions of the State? it would be incorrect to confuse between humanism and political-ideology   gowhar- I would argue those who are fully for separatism cannot actually live it without having to compromise their conscience nor can those who may seek integration live it without compromising their selves and beings. Neither can pursue livelihood without having to sell their souls to the devil. While this may be a global phenomenon, it is exacerbated by the particularly unresolved nature of our beings and circumstances. In my opinion there are no humanisms that exist in their pure form, in complete isolation and unsullied by political ideologies, except may be in the Platonian world of ideas.   aalok- oh yes!!!! certainly!!!! as a generalised philosophical analysis, i completely agree with you as Faiz said: " duniya nay taeri yaad say baygaana karr diyaa tujh say bhi dil-faraib hain gham rozgaar kay"     From: gowhar fazli Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 1:58 PM > I don't like the heading "Why Kashmir > defies solutions". > > It is in these moments that the real desperation and loss > of self of Kashmiris as a people becomes evident. For > livelihood they have to stoop before the same institutions > that torment them or that they abhor for obvious reasons. > This contradiction that runs through their very selves, > prevents people from acquiring a full blown human-hood. > > There should be no guilt or indignity associated with > acquiring of livelihood through legitimate means, but this > is the case one way or the other, for most people in > Kashmir. The boundaries between legitimate and illegitimate > are dizzyingly fuzzy because of the manner in which the > selves are split. > > If not for any other but for the indignities involved in > the status quo that Kashmir issue should be resolved for > good. > > --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar > wrote: > > > From: SJabbar > > Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies solutions > > To: "Sarai" > > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM > > Printed from > > > > Khaki enemy? 60,000 Kashmiris apply for 3,000 police > jobs > > M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, 2010, 01.30am IST > > SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks > and > > threats of social > > boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw for > young > > job hunters in > > employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls by > hardliners to > > shun the khaki > > force, nearly 60,000 men applied for less than 3,000 > jobs > > in J&K police -- > > about 200 applicants for one constable's post. > > > > The applications piled up over the last few months, > about > > the time when the > > situation in the Valley appeared to be spinning out > of > > control with the cops > > particularly being at the receiving end of public > wrath. > > > > J&K police DG Kuldeep Khoda said the department > has > > received 58,975 > > applications, against 2,786 vacancies across the > Valley. > > "The response from > > (the worst-hit) Srinagar and Budgam districts was even > more > > heartening," he > > said. "We've received 2,860 applications, against 529 > posts > > in Srinagar > > district, while 8053 against 283 in Budgam," he said. > > > > Lack of jobs has been a big spur for the protests > that > > brought thousands of > > young educated men on to the streets. Official > estimates of > > the number of > > unemployed in the Valley stands at 3 lakhs. > > > > Khoda told reporters the department held a > recruitment > > rally in Baramulla > > district in July and was overwhelmed with the > response. > > "Over 8,000 people > > turned up for 412 posts despite turmoil in the > district," > > he said, and added > > that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said > the > > department was > > mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives across > the > > Valley, particularly > > in Srinagar's downtown area to end the unrest. > > > > The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and > > insubordination. He claimed > > no police personnel had quit since mid-June when > Kashmir > > erupted in anger > > against the alleged staged encounter of three north > Kashmir > > youth and a > > 17-year-old boy's killing in police action. Over 60 > people, > > including women > > and children, have died in police firing on > protesters > > since then. > > > > State government sources said J&K CM Omar > Abdullah, who > > has called for a > > proactive approach including the phased revocation of > the > > controversial > > Armed Forces Special Forces Act to deal with street > > protests, has ordered > > creation of more police jobs to induct youth from the > > troubled areas. > > > > Meanwhile, in its ongoing drive to reach out to the > people, > > Kashmir range > > IGP Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended police-public > meetings in > > Ganderbal and > > Budgam districts. "At Ganderbal District Police > Lines, > > around 300 people > > including senior citizens and sarpanchs participated," > a > > police spokesman > > said. "Sahai assured the people that police will > adopt > > maximum restraint > > while dealing with law and order situations." > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       >       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Sep 7 17:22:44 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 17:22:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7CE53842-D589-483D-AD77-A9278FEF5690@sarai.net> recruitment in indian subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in the british army was very high. what did this say about the aspiration and lives being led at that time in the sub continent. do we even count that number today in discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub continent? On 07-Sep-10, at 2:10 PM, SJabbar wrote: > But Gowhar, what happens when a man who hitherto abhors an > institution joins > it? What happens to that extreme emotion when the line is crossed, > when the > uniform is donned, when the 'danda' drops firmly into his hands? > By your logic all those who joined the force post-1990 once abhorred > the > institution and now have become the oppressors. And those who pelt > stones > at the oppressors now want to join the same hated institution only > to become > future oppressors? Not one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may > understand this, but I have to tell you, it's left me totally > perplexed. > > > On 07/09/10 1:58 PM, "gowhar fazli" wrote: > >>> I don't like the heading "Why Kashmir >> defies solutions". >> >> It is in >>> these moments that the real desperation and loss >> of self of Kashmiris as a >>> people becomes evident. For >> livelihood they have to stoop before the same >>> institutions >> that torment them or that they abhor for obvious reasons. >> >>> This contradiction that runs through their very selves, >> prevents people >>> from acquiring a full blown human-hood. >> >> There should be no guilt or >>> indignity associated with >> acquiring of livelihood through legitimate means, >>> but this >> is the case one way or the other, for most people in >> Kashmir. >>> The boundaries between legitimate and illegitimate >> are dizzyingly fuzzy >>> because of the manner in which the >> selves are split. >> >> If not for any >>> other but for the indignities involved in >> the status quo that Kashmir issue >>> should be resolved for >> good. >> >> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >>> >> wrote: >> >>> From: SJabbar >>> >>> Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>> solutions >>> To: "Sarai" >>> Date: Tuesday, >>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM >>> Printed from >>> >>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>> Kashmiris apply for 3,000 police >> jobs >>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, >>> 2010, 01.30am IST >>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks >> >>> and >>> threats of social >>> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw >>> for >> young >>> job hunters in >>> employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls >>> by >> hardliners to >>> shun the khaki >>> force, nearly 60,000 men applied >>> for less than 3,000 >> jobs >>> in J&K police -- >>> about 200 applicants for >>> one constable's post. >>> >>> The applications piled up over the last few >>> months, >> about >>> the time when the >>> situation in the Valley appeared to >>> be spinning out >> of >>> control with the cops >>> particularly being at the >>> receiving end of public >> wrath. >>> >>> J&K police DG Kuldeep Khoda said >>> the department >> has >>> received 58,975 >>> applications, against 2,786 >>> vacancies across the >> Valley. >>> "The response from >>> (the worst-hit) >>> Srinagar and Budgam districts was even >> more >>> heartening," he >>> said. >>> "We've received 2,860 applications, against 529 >> posts >>> in Srinagar >>> >>> district, while 8053 against 283 in Budgam," he said. >>> >>> Lack of jobs >>> has been a big spur for the protests >> that >>> brought thousands of >>> >>> young educated men on to the streets. Official >> estimates of >>> the number >>> of >>> unemployed in the Valley stands at 3 lakhs. >>> >>> Khoda told >>> reporters the department held a >> recruitment >>> rally in Baramulla >>> >>> district in July and was overwhelmed with the >> response. >>> "Over 8,000 >>> people >>> turned up for 412 posts despite turmoil in the >> district," >>> he >>> said, and added >>> that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said >> >>> the >>> department was >>> mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>> across >> the >>> Valley, particularly >>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>> the unrest. >>> >>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and >>> >>> insubordination. He claimed >>> no police personnel had quit since mid-June >>> when >> Kashmir >>> erupted in anger >>> against the alleged staged encounter >>> of three north >> Kashmir >>> youth and a >>> 17-year-old boy's killing in >>> police action. Over 60 >> people, >>> including women >>> and children, have >>> died in police firing on >> protesters >>> since then. >>> >>> State >>> government sources said J&K CM Omar >> Abdullah, who >>> has called for a >>> >>> proactive approach including the phased revocation of >> the >>> >>> controversial >>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act to deal with street >>> >>> protests, has ordered >>> creation of more police jobs to induct youth from >>> the >>> troubled areas. >>> >>> Meanwhile, in its ongoing drive to reach out >>> to the >> people, >>> Kashmir range >>> IGP Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended >>> police-public >> meetings in >>> Ganderbal and >>> Budgam districts. "At >>> Ganderbal District Police >> Lines, >>> around 300 people >>> including senior >>> citizens and sarpanchs participated," >> a >>> police spokesman >>> said. >>> "Sahai assured the people that police will >> adopt >>> maximum restraint >>> >>> while dealing with law and order situations." >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion >>> list on media and the >>> city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To >>> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> > > > >>> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion >>> list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an >>> email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >>> header. > To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 17:41:23 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:41:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: <7CE53842-D589-483D-AD77-A9278FEF5690@sarai.net> Message-ID: You're right Jeebesh, and most people who were recruited were absolutely loyal to the British Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. And why just speak of the 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply divided and very few at the time articulated it as a 'war for independence.' It would be foolish to say that those who served the British Empire were closet nationalists forced into furthering their careers by joining the army or ICS. On 07/09/10 5:22 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > recruitment in indian subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in the > british army was very high. what did this say about the aspiration and lives > being led at that time in the sub continent. do we even count that number > today in discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub continent? On 07-Sep-10, at > 2:10 PM, SJabbar wrote: > But Gowhar, what happens when a man who hitherto > abhors an > institution joins > it? What happens to that extreme emotion > when the line is crossed, > when the > uniform is donned, when the 'danda' > drops firmly into his hands? > By your logic all those who joined the force > post-1990 once abhorred > the > institution and now have become the > oppressors. And those who pelt > stones > at the oppressors now want to > join the same hated institution only > to become > future oppressors? Not > one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may > understand this, but I have to > tell you, it's left me totally > perplexed. > > > On 07/09/10 1:58 PM, > "gowhar fazli" wrote: > >>> I don't like the heading > "Why Kashmir >> defies solutions". >> >> It is in >>> these moments that the > real desperation and loss >> of self of Kashmiris as a >>> people becomes > evident. For >> livelihood they have to stoop before the same >>> > institutions >> that torment them or that they abhor for obvious > reasons. >> >>> This contradiction that runs through their very selves, >> > prevents people >>> from acquiring a full blown human-hood. >> >> There should > be no guilt or >>> indignity associated with >> acquiring of livelihood > through legitimate means, >>> but this >> is the case one way or the other, > for most people in >> Kashmir. >>> The boundaries between legitimate and > illegitimate >> are dizzyingly fuzzy >>> because of the manner in which the >> > selves are split. >> >> If not for any >>> other but for the indignities > involved in >> the status quo that Kashmir issue >>> should be resolved for >> > good. >> >> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >>> >> > wrote: >> >>> From: SJabbar >>> >>> Subject: > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>> solutions >>> To: "Sarai" > >>> Date: Tuesday, >>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM >>> > Printed from >>> >>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>> Kashmiris apply for 3,000 > police >> jobs >>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, >>> 2010, 01.30am IST >>> > SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks >> >>> and >>> threats of > social >>> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw >>> for >> young >>> > job hunters in >>> employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls >>> by >> > hardliners to >>> shun the khaki >>> force, nearly 60,000 men applied >>> for > less than 3,000 >> jobs >>> in J&K police -- >>> about 200 applicants for >>> > one constable's post. >>> >>> The applications piled up over the last few >>> > months, >> about >>> the time when the >>> situation in the Valley appeared > to >>> be spinning out >> of >>> control with the cops >>> particularly being > at the >>> receiving end of public >> wrath. >>> >>> J&K police DG Kuldeep > Khoda said >>> the department >> has >>> received 58,975 >>> applications, > against 2,786 >>> vacancies across the >> Valley. >>> "The response from >>> > (the worst-hit) >>> Srinagar and Budgam districts was even >> more >>> > heartening," he >>> said. >>> "We've received 2,860 applications, against > 529 >> posts >>> in Srinagar >>> >>> district, while 8053 against 283 in > Budgam," he said. >>> >>> Lack of jobs >>> has been a big spur for the > protests >> that >>> brought thousands of >>> >>> young educated men on to the > streets. Official >> estimates of >>> the number >>> of >>> unemployed in the > Valley stands at 3 lakhs. >>> >>> Khoda told >>> reporters the department held > a >> recruitment >>> rally in Baramulla >>> >>> district in July and was > overwhelmed with the >> response. >>> "Over 8,000 >>> people >>> turned up for > 412 posts despite turmoil in the >> district," >>> he >>> said, and added >>> > that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said >> >>> the >>> department > was >>> mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>> across >> the >>> > Valley, particularly >>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>> the > unrest. >>> >>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and >>> >>> > insubordination. He claimed >>> no police personnel had quit since > mid-June >>> when >> Kashmir >>> erupted in anger >>> against the alleged > staged encounter >>> of three north >> Kashmir >>> youth and a >>> 17-year-old > boy's killing in >>> police action. Over 60 >> people, >>> including women >>> > and children, have >>> died in police firing on >> protesters >>> since > then. >>> >>> State >>> government sources said J&K CM Omar >> Abdullah, > who >>> has called for a >>> >>> proactive approach including the phased > revocation of >> the >>> >>> controversial >>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act > to deal with street >>> >>> protests, has ordered >>> creation of more police > jobs to induct youth from >>> the >>> troubled areas. >>> >>> Meanwhile, in > its ongoing drive to reach out >>> to the >> people, >>> Kashmir range >>> IGP > Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended >>> police-public >> meetings in >>> Ganderbal > and >>> Budgam districts. "At >>> Ganderbal District Police >> Lines, >>> > around 300 people >>> including senior >>> citizens and sarpanchs > participated," >> a >>> police spokesman >>> said. >>> "Sahai assured the > people that police will >> adopt >>> maximum restraint >>> >>> while dealing > with law and order situations." >>> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open > discussion >>> list on media and the >>> city. >>> Critiques & > Collaborations >>> To >>> subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe >>> in the subject > header. >>> To unsubscribe: >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> > > > >>> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open > discussion >>> list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an >>> email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject >>> header. > To unsubscribe: >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________________________ > _______________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Sep 7 18:04:07 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 18:04:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR: VIEW FROM THE EMERGENCY ROOM Message-ID: <90B6A99E-228C-4367-BE42-AFA3448BCA21@sarai.net> KASHMIR: VIEW FROM THE EMERGENCY ROOM BY AJAZ BABA It is another day of curfew in Kashmir. I am travelling in an ambulance to the Shri Maharaja Hari Singh (SMHS) Hospital in Srinagar, my workplace and the city’s main hospital. The windscreen is shattered like that of most vehicles that dare to ply the roads, which are blockaded by either protesters or policed by irate securitymen. It is a blessing though, the shattered windscreen, because it offsets the suffocation in the van. The van carries eight persons but these days it is packed with medics, nurses and paramedics, this being a safer mode of travel. A CONCERTINA wire blocks the road ahead and a policeman peers into the van. “Hospital staff”, the driver says with an ingratiating smile and the policeman lifts the wire and waves us on. A speeding car overtakes us with its horn blaring and a couple of youth hanging out of the windows shouting and gesticulating wildly. There has been a firing on a demonstration and they are carrying a young man hit by a bullet to the hospital. “There, it has started,” a nurse grumbles. By the time we reach the hospital, the patient in the car that overtook us is in the operation theatre. A crowd has gathered. There is blood on the clothes of the youth who came with the patient. One of the accompanying youngsters is sitting near the entrance of the theatre weeping and pleading to be let inside. He is the victim’s brother. I enter the theatre. A tube sticks out of the teenager’s mouth through which a doctor is ventilating him. Another doctor is applying stitches to secure the tube that has been put in on the side of the chest with the bullet wound. The bag attached to the tube bulges with blood. It empties and fills rapidly. “He will need a thoracotomy,” the doctor shakes his head. There is a brief lull and then someone comes with news that protesters have been fired at in a village near Sopore, nearly 60 kilometres away. The journalists arrive with their cameras and converge near the casualty entrance like birds. Stretcher trolleys are hurriedly lined up. A couple of hours pass and when it has begun to look like no more injured will arrive there is this terrifying clamour of rushing gurneys. I rush out just in time to see a young man on a trolley being dragged and pushed by a score or so youngsters. Those in the front are brandishing sticks and are hysterical. The trolley- bearers rush in one direction and then another, yelling till someone directs them towards the operation theatre. All this happens within a few seconds but, like in a nightmare, the seconds seem stretched. Another trolley follows, accompanied by shrieking women and men shouting slogans. The boy on the first trolley is dead, from a single wound in his leg that has long ceased bleeding, the blood having drained during the journey to the hospital. The trip would normally take an hour but with the confusion, the curfew, and numerous barricades, it has taken four hours. The cell phone in his pocket rings incessantly, the Bollywood song that is his ringtone sounds obscenely out of place. The other victim, an elderly person, is also dead. From bullets in the chest and neck. The bodies are put into a waiting ambulance, which will take them and the wailing relatives back to their village. The patients keep coming in cars and auto-rickshaws. Mercifully, the injuries are not fatal. One patient has a bullet injury in the abdomen. He is lucky; he has reached hospital in time. A teenager is brought walking with a handkerchief held to his left eye. He has been hit in the eye by a marble aimed with deadly accuracy with a catapult, one of the ‘non- fatal’ weapons in the hands of the security forces. The swollen eye is reduced to a gooey mess. Some days I can’t help feeling that even the canniest of journalists is not able to capture and project what’s happening in Kashmir. Television channels show a clichéd account with a repetition of similar-looking slogan-shouting crowds, stone-pelting youth and women wailing their dead. The hospital scene I am daily witness to is far more descriptive and eloquent. The ghastly wounds tell their own gory tale but it goes beyond that. It is not about slogans and demonstrations either. These days so many donors come to offer blood that the hospital blood bank is overflowing though at times over 20 pints have had to be transfused into a single patient. AT MEAL times a couple or more of mini load carriers chug into the hospital compound. The sloganeers suddenly turn into solicitous hosts ladling out rice and gravy. Some days when the supplies run low it is just turmeric-dyed fried rice. Every day I see a group of prominent businessmen, who must be losing crores of rupees because of the turmoil, spending long hours in the hospital even beyond our own stretched duty hours. They are not ruing their losses but, without so much as a complaint, helping out the sick and the injured and plying patients and their attendants to remote corners of the Valley in private ambulances. In numerous ways, they provide unconditional help and assistance. Scenes like these make it difficult to believe that it is just a handful of misguided, frustrated or paid young men who are all there is to Kashmir. The show of camaraderie is enough, and more so than the scenes on the roads, to convince even a cynic (and that, I might as well confess, includes me) that if this is not a mass movement then there has never been one. Living in the midst of all this violence, bearing witness to fatal wounds every day, declaring ‘brought dead’ young men whose faces have just begun to sprout a fuzzy semblance of a moustache, one cannot continue to remain unaffected. I have never picked up a stone, but sometimes I feel I too am fighting, perhaps indirectly, the ones who inflict death. It is a pitifully unequal battle, especially when you are mocked by a youngster’s body, dead long before the surgical skills you are so proud of could help him. Ajaz Baba is a general surgeon at SMHS Hospital, Srinagar http://www.tehelka.com/story_main46.asp?filename=Ne110910Kashmir.asp From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Sep 7 18:06:36 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 18:06:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5DD7C386-0249-4307-8066-A54B07CFE6CF@sarai.net> agreed. but how come they all became unquestionable nationalists after 1947? On 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > You're right Jeebesh, and most people who were recruited were > absolutely > loyal to the British Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. > And why > just speak of the 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply divided > and very > few at the time articulated it as a 'war for independence.' It > would be > foolish to say that those who served the British Empire were closet > nationalists forced into furthering their careers by joining the > army or > ICS. > > > On 07/09/10 5:22 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > >> recruitment in indian subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > the >> british army was very high. what did this say about the aspiration > and lives >> being led at that time in the sub continent. do we even > count that number >> today in discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub > continent? > > On 07-Sep-10, at >> 2:10 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> But Gowhar, what happens when a man who hitherto >> abhors an >> institution joins >> it? What happens to that extreme emotion >> when the line is crossed, >> when the >> uniform is donned, when the 'danda' >> drops firmly into his hands? >> By your logic all those who joined the force >> post-1990 once abhorred >> the >> institution and now have become the >> oppressors. And those who pelt >> stones >> at the oppressors now want to >> join the same hated institution only >> to become >> future oppressors? Not >> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may >> understand this, but I have to >> tell you, it's left me totally >> perplexed. >> >> >> On 07/09/10 1:58 PM, >> "gowhar fazli" wrote: >> >>>> I don't like the heading >> "Why Kashmir >>> defies solutions". >>> >>> It is in >>>> these moments that the >> real desperation and loss >>> of self of Kashmiris as a >>>> people becomes >> evident. For >>> livelihood they have to stoop before the same >>>> >> institutions >>> that torment them or that they abhor for obvious >> reasons. >>> >>>> This contradiction that runs through their very selves, >>> >> prevents people >>>> from acquiring a full blown human-hood. >>> >>> There should >> be no guilt or >>>> indignity associated with >>> acquiring of livelihood >> through legitimate means, >>>> but this >>> is the case one way or the other, >> for most people in >>> Kashmir. >>>> The boundaries between legitimate and >> illegitimate >>> are dizzyingly fuzzy >>>> because of the manner in which the >>> >> selves are split. >>> >>> If not for any >>>> other but for the indignities >> involved in >>> the status quo that Kashmir issue >>>> should be resolved for >>> >> good. >>> >>> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >>>> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>> From: SJabbar >>>> >>>> Subject: >> [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>> solutions >>>> To: "Sarai" >> >>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM >>>> >> Printed from >>>> >>>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>> Kashmiris apply for 3,000 >> police >>> jobs >>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, >>>> 2010, 01.30am IST >>>> >> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks >>> >>>> and >>>> threats of >> social >>>> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw >>>> for >>> young >>>> >> job hunters in >>>> employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls >>>> by >>> >> hardliners to >>>> shun the khaki >>>> force, nearly 60,000 men applied >>>> for >> less than 3,000 >>> jobs >>>> in J&K police -- >>>> about 200 applicants for >>>> >> one constable's post. >>>> >>>> The applications piled up over the last few >>>> >> months, >>> about >>>> the time when the >>>> situation in the Valley appeared >> to >>>> be spinning out >>> of >>>> control with the cops >>>> particularly being >> at the >>>> receiving end of public >>> wrath. >>>> >>>> J&K police DG Kuldeep >> Khoda said >>>> the department >>> has >>>> received 58,975 >>>> applications, >> against 2,786 >>>> vacancies across the >>> Valley. >>>> "The response from >>>> >> (the worst-hit) >>>> Srinagar and Budgam districts was even >>> more >>>> >> heartening," he >>>> said. >>>> "We've received 2,860 applications, against >> 529 >>> posts >>>> in Srinagar >>>> >>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >> Budgam," he said. >>>> >>>> Lack of jobs >>>> has been a big spur for the >> protests >>> that >>>> brought thousands of >>>> >>>> young educated men on to the >> streets. Official >>> estimates of >>>> the number >>>> of >>>> unemployed in the >> Valley stands at 3 lakhs. >>>> >>>> Khoda told >>>> reporters the department held >> a >>> recruitment >>>> rally in Baramulla >>>> >>>> district in July and was >> overwhelmed with the >>> response. >>>> "Over 8,000 >>>> people >>>> turned up for >> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>> district," >>>> he >>>> said, and added >>>> >> that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said >>> >>>> the >>>> department >> was >>>> mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>> across >>> the >>>> >> Valley, particularly >>>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>>> the >> unrest. >>>> >>>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and >>>> >>>> >> insubordination. He claimed >>>> no police personnel had quit since >> mid-June >>>> when >>> Kashmir >>>> erupted in anger >>>> against the alleged >> staged encounter >>>> of three north >>> Kashmir >>>> youth and a >>>> 17-year-old >> boy's killing in >>>> police action. Over 60 >>> people, >>>> including women >>>> >> and children, have >>>> died in police firing on >>> protesters >>>> since >> then. >>>> >>>> State >>>> government sources said J&K CM Omar >>> Abdullah, >> who >>>> has called for a >>>> >>>> proactive approach including the phased >> revocation of >>> the >>>> >>>> controversial >>>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act >> to deal with street >>>> >>>> protests, has ordered >>>> creation of more police >> jobs to induct youth from >>>> the >>>> troubled areas. >>>> >>>> Meanwhile, in >> its ongoing drive to reach out >>>> to the >>> people, >>>> Kashmir range >>>> IGP >> Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended >>>> police-public >>> meetings in >>>> Ganderbal >> and >>>> Budgam districts. "At >>>> Ganderbal District Police >>> Lines, >>>> >> around 300 people >>>> including senior >>>> citizens and sarpanchs >> participated," >>> a >>>> police spokesman >>>> said. >>>> "Sahai assured the >> people that police will >>> adopt >>>> maximum restraint >>>> >>>> while dealing >> with law and order situations." >>>> >>>> >> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open >> discussion >>>> list on media and the >>>> city. >>>> Critiques & >> Collaborations >>>> To >>>> subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> with subscribe >>>> in the subject >> header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open >> discussion >>>> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To >> subscribe: send an >>>> email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject >>>> header. >> To unsubscribe: >>>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion >> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > __________________________ >> _______________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 18:32:18 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:32:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: <5DD7C386-0249-4307-8066-A54B07CFE6CF@sarai.net> Message-ID: Did they? Or did they do what most people do, make their peace with the new dispensation and get on with life. The point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 young men applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people are describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K Police as an abhorrent force? Can it be that they are the relatives of men who are already in the JKP? Can it be that they don't subscribe to azadi? And how do the families of tens of thousands of men who are in the JKP and JAKLI see their kin? Another puzzling matter: we speak of the AFSPA and its revocation but the JKP is not protected by the Act. And one more thing: the army, that has been responsible for the worst human rights abuses in the last 2 decades is not targeted by the stone-pelters. They continue their work of patrolling and cordon & search operations as if they live on another planet. The target is always the JKP. On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > agreed. but how come they all became unquestionable nationalists after > 1947? On 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > You're right Jeebesh, and > most people who were recruited were > absolutely > loyal to the British > Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. > And why > just speak of the > 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply divided > and very > few at the > time articulated it as a 'war for independence.' It > would be > foolish to > say that those who served the British Empire were closet > nationalists forced > into furthering their careers by joining the > army or > ICS. > > > On > 07/09/10 5:22 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > >> recruitment in > indian subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > the >> british army > was very high. what did this say about the aspiration > and lives >> being led > at that time in the sub continent. do we even > count that number >> today in > discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub > continent? > > On 07-Sep-10, at >> 2:10 > PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> But Gowhar, what happens when a man who hitherto >> > abhors an >> institution joins >> it? What happens to that extreme emotion >> > when the line is crossed, >> when the >> uniform is donned, when the > 'danda' >> drops firmly into his hands? >> By your logic all those who joined > the force >> post-1990 once abhorred >> the >> institution and now have become > the >> oppressors. And those who pelt >> stones >> at the oppressors now want > to >> join the same hated institution only >> to become >> future oppressors? > Not >> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may >> understand this, but I > have to >> tell you, it's left me totally >> perplexed. >> >> >> On 07/09/10 > 1:58 PM, >> "gowhar fazli" wrote: >> >>>> I don't > like the heading >> "Why Kashmir >>> defies solutions". >>> >>> It is in >>>> > these moments that the >> real desperation and loss >>> of self of Kashmiris > as a >>>> people becomes >> evident. For >>> livelihood they have to stoop > before the same >>>> >> institutions >>> that torment them or that they abhor > for obvious >> reasons. >>> >>>> This contradiction that runs through their > very selves, >>> >> prevents people >>>> from acquiring a full blown > human-hood. >>> >>> There should >> be no guilt or >>>> indignity associated > with >>> acquiring of livelihood >> through legitimate means, >>>> but > this >>> is the case one way or the other, >> for most people in >>> > Kashmir. >>>> The boundaries between legitimate and >> illegitimate >>> are > dizzyingly fuzzy >>>> because of the manner in which the >>> >> selves are > split. >>> >>> If not for any >>>> other but for the indignities >> involved > in >>> the status quo that Kashmir issue >>>> should be resolved for >>> >> > good. >>> >>> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >>>> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>>> From: SJabbar >>>> >>>> Subject: >> > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>> solutions >>>> To: "Sarai" >> > >>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 > AM >>>> >> Printed from >>>> >>>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>> Kashmiris apply for > 3,000 >> police >>> jobs >>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, >>>> 2010, 01.30am > IST >>>> >> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks >>> >>>> > and >>>> threats of >> social >>>> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big > draw >>>> for >>> young >>>> >> job hunters in >>>> employment-starved > Kashmir. Ignoring calls >>>> by >>> >> hardliners to >>>> shun the khaki >>>> > force, nearly 60,000 men applied >>>> for >> less than 3,000 >>> jobs >>>> in > J&K police -- >>>> about 200 applicants for >>>> >> one constable's > post. >>>> >>>> The applications piled up over the last few >>>> >> > months, >>> about >>>> the time when the >>>> situation in the Valley > appeared >> to >>>> be spinning out >>> of >>>> control with the cops >>>> > particularly being >> at the >>>> receiving end of public >>> wrath. >>>> >>>> > J&K police DG Kuldeep >> Khoda said >>>> the department >>> has >>>> received > 58,975 >>>> applications, >> against 2,786 >>>> vacancies across the >>> > Valley. >>>> "The response from >>>> >> (the worst-hit) >>>> Srinagar and > Budgam districts was even >>> more >>>> >> heartening," he >>>> said. >>>> > "We've received 2,860 applications, against >> 529 >>> posts >>>> in > Srinagar >>>> >>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >> Budgam," he > said. >>>> >>>> Lack of jobs >>>> has been a big spur for the >> protests >>> > that >>>> brought thousands of >>>> >>>> young educated men on to the >> > streets. Official >>> estimates of >>>> the number >>>> of >>>> unemployed in > the >> Valley stands at 3 lakhs. >>>> >>>> Khoda told >>>> reporters the > department held >> a >>> recruitment >>>> rally in Baramulla >>>> >>>> > district in July and was >> overwhelmed with the >>> response. >>>> "Over > 8,000 >>>> people >>>> turned up for >> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>> > district," >>>> he >>>> said, and added >>>> >> that even stone-pelters > attended the rally. He said >>> >>>> the >>>> department >> was >>>> mulling > more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>> across >>> the >>>> >> Valley, > particularly >>>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>>> the >> > unrest. >>>> >>>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and >>>> >>>> >> > insubordination. He claimed >>>> no police personnel had quit since >> > mid-June >>>> when >>> Kashmir >>>> erupted in anger >>>> against the > alleged >> staged encounter >>>> of three north >>> Kashmir >>>> youth and > a >>>> 17-year-old >> boy's killing in >>>> police action. Over 60 >>> > people, >>>> including women >>>> >> and children, have >>>> died in police > firing on >>> protesters >>>> since >> then. >>>> >>>> State >>>> government > sources said J&K CM Omar >>> Abdullah, >> who >>>> has called for a >>>> >>>> > proactive approach including the phased >> revocation of >>> the >>>> >>>> > controversial >>>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act >> to deal with > street >>>> >>>> protests, has ordered >>>> creation of more police >> jobs to > induct youth from >>>> the >>>> troubled areas. >>>> >>>> Meanwhile, in >> its > ongoing drive to reach out >>>> to the >>> people, >>>> Kashmir range >>>> > IGP >> Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended >>>> police-public >>> meetings in >>>> > Ganderbal >> and >>>> Budgam districts. "At >>>> Ganderbal District Police >>> > Lines, >>>> >> around 300 people >>>> including senior >>>> citizens and > sarpanchs >> participated," >>> a >>>> police spokesman >>>> said. >>>> "Sahai > assured the >> people that police will >>> adopt >>>> maximum > restraint >>>> >>>> while dealing >> with law and order > situations." >>>> >>>> >> _________________________________________ >>>> > reader-list: an open >> discussion >>>> list on media and the >>>> city. >>>> > Critiques & >> Collaborations >>>> To >>>> subscribe: send an email to >> > reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> with subscribe >>>> in the subject >> > header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open >> > discussion >>>> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > To >> subscribe: send an >>>> email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe >> in the subject >>>> header. >> To unsubscribe: >>>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open > discussion >> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To > subscribe: send >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe > in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > __________________________ >> _______________ > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > ______________________ > ___________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Sep 7 19:21:26 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:21:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53907252-D525-4269-AA33-C0A32933F3E4@sarai.net> The so called iron frame of indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS officers. It was more than getting on with life :) On Kashmir i understand very little to be able to comment. But some comments seem to mock the people who are trying to articulate something substantial. A little caution about interpreting quickly. The maxim of the actors are always far more complicated and illegible than the judgement of the spectator. On 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > Did they? Or did they do what most people do, make their peace with > the new > dispensation and get on with life. > > The point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 > young men > applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people are > describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K > Police as > an abhorrent force? Can it be that they are the relatives of men > who are > already in the JKP? Can it be that they don't subscribe to azadi? > And how > do the families of tens of thousands of men who are in the JKP and > JAKLI see > their kin? > > Another puzzling matter: we speak of the AFSPA and its revocation > but the > JKP is not protected by the Act. And one more thing: the army, that > has > been responsible for the worst human rights abuses in the last 2 > decades is > not targeted by the stone-pelters. They continue their work of > patrolling > and cordon & search operations as if they live on another planet. > The target > is always the JKP. > > > On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > >> agreed. but how come they all became unquestionable nationalists >> after >> > 1947? > > On 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> You're right Jeebesh, and >> most people who were recruited were >> absolutely >> loyal to the British >> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. >> And why >> just speak of the >> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply divided >> and very >> few at the >> time articulated it as a 'war for independence.' It >> would be >> foolish to >> say that those who served the British Empire were closet >> nationalists forced >> into furthering their careers by joining the >> army or >> ICS. >> >> >> On >> 07/09/10 5:22 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: >> >>> recruitment in >> indian subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in >> the >>> british army >> was very high. what did this say about the aspiration >> and lives >>> being led >> at that time in the sub continent. do we even >> count that number >>> today in >> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub >> continent? >> >> On 07-Sep-10, at >>> 2:10 >> PM, SJabbar wrote: >> >>> But Gowhar, what happens when a man who hitherto >>> >> abhors an >>> institution joins >>> it? What happens to that extreme emotion >>> >> when the line is crossed, >>> when the >>> uniform is donned, when the >> 'danda' >>> drops firmly into his hands? >>> By your logic all those who joined >> the force >>> post-1990 once abhorred >>> the >>> institution and now have become >> the >>> oppressors. And those who pelt >>> stones >>> at the oppressors now want >> to >>> join the same hated institution only >>> to become >>> future oppressors? >> Not >>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may >>> understand this, but I >> have to >>> tell you, it's left me totally >>> perplexed. >>> >>> >>> On 07/09/10 >> 1:58 PM, >>> "gowhar fazli" wrote: >>> >>>>> I don't >> like the heading >>> "Why Kashmir >>>> defies solutions". >>>> >>>> It is in >>>>> >> these moments that the >>> real desperation and loss >>>> of self of Kashmiris >> as a >>>>> people becomes >>> evident. For >>>> livelihood they have to stoop >> before the same >>>>> >>> institutions >>>> that torment them or that they abhor >> for obvious >>> reasons. >>>> >>>>> This contradiction that runs through their >> very selves, >>>> >>> prevents people >>>>> from acquiring a full blown >> human-hood. >>>> >>>> There should >>> be no guilt or >>>>> indignity associated >> with >>>> acquiring of livelihood >>> through legitimate means, >>>>> but >> this >>>> is the case one way or the other, >>> for most people in >>>> >> Kashmir. >>>>> The boundaries between legitimate and >>> illegitimate >>>> are >> dizzyingly fuzzy >>>>> because of the manner in which the >>>> >>> selves are >> split. >>>> >>>> If not for any >>>>> other but for the indignities >>> involved >> in >>>> the status quo that Kashmir issue >>>>> should be resolved for >>>> >>> >> good. >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >>>>> >>>> >>> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: SJabbar >>>>> >>>>> Subject: >>> >> [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>>> solutions >>>>> To: "Sarai" >>> >> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 >> AM >>>>> >>> Printed from >>>>> >>>>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>>> Kashmiris apply for >> 3,000 >>> police >>>> jobs >>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, >>>>> 2010, 01.30am >> IST >>>>> >>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks >>>> >>>>> >> and >>>>> threats of >>> social >>>>> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big >> draw >>>>> for >>>> young >>>>> >>> job hunters in >>>>> employment-starved >> Kashmir. Ignoring calls >>>>> by >>>> >>> hardliners to >>>>> shun the khaki >>>>> >> force, nearly 60,000 men applied >>>>> for >>> less than 3,000 >>>> jobs >>>>> in >> J&K police -- >>>>> about 200 applicants for >>>>> >>> one constable's >> post. >>>>> >>>>> The applications piled up over the last few >>>>> >>> >> months, >>>> about >>>>> the time when the >>>>> situation in the Valley >> appeared >>> to >>>>> be spinning out >>>> of >>>>> control with the cops >>>>> >> particularly being >>> at the >>>>> receiving end of public >>>> wrath. >>>>> >>>>> >> J&K police DG Kuldeep >>> Khoda said >>>>> the department >>>> has >>>>> received >> 58,975 >>>>> applications, >>> against 2,786 >>>>> vacancies across the >>>> >> Valley. >>>>> "The response from >>>>> >>> (the worst-hit) >>>>> Srinagar and >> Budgam districts was even >>>> more >>>>> >>> heartening," he >>>>> said. >>>>> >> "We've received 2,860 applications, against >>> 529 >>>> posts >>>>> in >> Srinagar >>>>> >>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >>> Budgam," he >> said. >>>>> >>>>> Lack of jobs >>>>> has been a big spur for the >>> protests >>>> >> that >>>>> brought thousands of >>>>> >>>>> young educated men on to the >>> >> streets. Official >>>> estimates of >>>>> the number >>>>> of >>>>> unemployed in >> the >>> Valley stands at 3 lakhs. >>>>> >>>>> Khoda told >>>>> reporters the >> department held >>> a >>>> recruitment >>>>> rally in Baramulla >>>>> >>>>> >> district in July and was >>> overwhelmed with the >>>> response. >>>>> "Over >> 8,000 >>>>> people >>>>> turned up for >>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>>> >> district," >>>>> he >>>>> said, and added >>>>> >>> that even stone-pelters >> attended the rally. He said >>>> >>>>> the >>>>> department >>> was >>>>> mulling >> more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>>> across >>>> the >>>>> >>> Valley, >> particularly >>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>>>> the >>> >> unrest. >>>>> >>>>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> insubordination. He claimed >>>>> no police personnel had quit since >>> >> mid-June >>>>> when >>>> Kashmir >>>>> erupted in anger >>>>> against the >> alleged >>> staged encounter >>>>> of three north >>>> Kashmir >>>>> youth and >> a >>>>> 17-year-old >>> boy's killing in >>>>> police action. Over 60 >>>> >> people, >>>>> including women >>>>> >>> and children, have >>>>> died in police >> firing on >>>> protesters >>>>> since >>> then. >>>>> >>>>> State >>>>> government >> sources said J&K CM Omar >>>> Abdullah, >>> who >>>>> has called for a >>>>> >>>>> >> proactive approach including the phased >>> revocation of >>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >> controversial >>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act >>> to deal with >> street >>>>> >>>>> protests, has ordered >>>>> creation of more police >>> jobs to >> induct youth from >>>>> the >>>>> troubled areas. >>>>> >>>>> Meanwhile, in >>> its >> ongoing drive to reach out >>>>> to the >>>> people, >>>>> Kashmir range >>>>> >> IGP >>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended >>>>> police-public >>>> meetings in >>>>> >> Ganderbal >>> and >>>>> Budgam districts. "At >>>>> Ganderbal District Police >>>> >> Lines, >>>>> >>> around 300 people >>>>> including senior >>>>> citizens and >> sarpanchs >>> participated," >>>> a >>>>> police spokesman >>>>> said. >>>>> "Sahai >> assured the >>> people that police will >>>> adopt >>>>> maximum >> restraint >>>>> >>>>> while dealing >>> with law and order >> situations." >>>>> >>>>> >>> _________________________________________ >>>>> >> reader-list: an open >>> discussion >>>>> list on media and the >>>>> city. >>>>> >> Critiques & >>> Collaborations >>>>> To >>>>> subscribe: send an email to >>> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>> with subscribe >>>>> in the subject >>> >> header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: >>>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open >>> >> discussion >>>>> list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To >>> subscribe: send an >>>>> email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >>> in the subject >>>>> header. >>> To unsubscribe: >>>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open >> discussion >>> list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To >> subscribe: send >>> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >> in the subject >>> header. >>> To unsubscribe: >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> __________________________ >>> _______________ >> reader-list: an open >> discussion list on media and the >>> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To >> subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To >>> unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > ______________________ >> ___________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Sep 7 19:08:40 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:08:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Siddharth Varadarajan on the injustice of an award to Neeta Sharma Message-ID: <87F0BF9A-B557-4043-A011-11EB2D1FC757@sarai.net> Dear all, Please do read and circulate Siddharth Varadarajan's excoriating critique (posted yesterday on his blog) of the way in which the unethical conduct of a journalist Neeta Sharma has been awarded with the Indian News Broadcasting Award for 'News Reporter of the Year 2010'. Ms. Sharma, currently with NDTV planted false stories about the journalist Iftikhar Gilani while she was a reporter with the Hindustan Times. best Shuddha ---------- http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/2010/09/such-journalists-should-be- exposed-not.html 06 September 2010 Such journalists should be exposed, not honoured I have written to the jury which gave the Indian News Broadcasting Award for News Reporter of the Year 2010, Hindi, to Neeta Sharma of NDTV India, protesting their choice. Neeta Sharma was the reporter who wrote a false story in the Hindustan Times in 2002 calling Iftikhar Gilani, a senior and respected journalist who is the Delhi bureau chief of Kashmir Times, an ISI agent. Her story, which was based on a plant by police and intelligence officials, contributed to Iftikhar's incarceration and caused him no end of trouble, especially with violent inmates and jailors at Tihar. As a reporter, she has never apologised for her story. Until she does so, I consider her a blight on my profession. I am sickened by the thought that such a person could have received an award for her so-called reporting. My letter -- and all the details of that sordid incident -- is appended below ... Dear Vinod [Mehta] and other jury members, You were part of a jury that recently gave Neeta Sharma of NDTV India a 'reporter of the year' award. While I am not familiar with her work on TV, her earlier work as a reporter for HT was reprehensible. Indeed, I have no hesitation in saying she was a blot on the profession of journalism. And that until she makes amends by tendering an unqualified apology to the biggest victim of her unprofessionalism -- Iftikhar Gilani -- she ought to be considered beyond the pale. While at the HT, she was an accomplice in the police attempt to frame Iftikhar Gilani, the respected bureau chief of Kashmir Times on false charges. I have recorded the issue and circumstances of Neeta Sharma's unethical behaviour in my Introduction to Gilani's book, My Days in Prison, which was published by Penguin in 2005: Since the DGMI ‘opinion’ made no reference to the published document, Iftikhar’s counsel tried in vain to have the courts take cognisance of it and demand that the military provide a second opinion expeditiously. Here, the case hit its third and fourth roadblocks, which was the timorousness of the lower judiciary and media in matters ostensibly relating to national security and official secrets. What was surprising was that despite the alacrity of the courts in filing contempt proceedings against those who try to manipulate the course of justice by misreporting or misrepresenting what transpires during a hearing, the concerned judge took no action against a wholly fabricated news report which appeared in a national daily the first time Iftikhar was produced in court: “In the course of hearing on Monday, Geelani (sic) reportedly said he had been passing on classified information about the movement of Indian troops to the ISI. When chief metropolitan magistrate Sangita Sehgal asked him if she should record this in his statement, Geelani nodded in assent.”[1] The news was false and amounted to contempt of court. Yet, no action was taken. As for the gullible crime reporter who was fed this story by the Delhi Police Special Cell, no apology was ever made. I happened to be introduced to the reporter in question at a colleague’s wedding in 2004 and when I said I had a bone to pick with her because of the hit-job she had done on Iftikhar Gilani, she said, “I don’t know any Iftikhar Gilani”. I was angry but decided to give her a bit of advice: “The police officials who used you to plant that story have escaped with their reputations intact. But what you did will remain a blot on your reputation as a journalist so long as you don’t apologise to Iftikhar”. Neeta Sharma’s story was important to the police because it appeared just at a time when a petition drafted by Aunohita Mojumdar and other journalists and friends of Iftikhar was gathering steam. A brief report about the campaign had appeared in The Times of India on June 10 and the police and IB quickly realised the need to nip any journalistic acts of solidarity in the bud. Editors could be leaned upon (and they were) but there was no better deterrent to the campaigning spirit than a concocted confession by Iftikhar that he had been an ISI agent all along. Soon, the floodgates opened and any number of malicious reports appeared across much of the Indian media accusing Iftikhar of being a traitor and militant, smuggler and jihadi, a sex fiend and “spy claiming the privileges of a newsman”, in the libellous words of the Bharatiya Janata Party MP and one-time journalist, Balbir K. Punj.[2] [1] Neeta Sharma, ‘Iftikar Geelani admits ISI links’, Hindustan Times, June 11, 2002 [2] Balbir K. Punj, ‘Dissimulation in words and in images’, Outlook, July 8, 2002 http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/2005/02/my-foreword-to-iftikhar- gilanis-my.html Iftikhar has also spoken about this in interviews and elsewhere: But what really affected my family and me most was a was a four column story printed in Hindustan Times on June 11 saying I was an ISI agent. It was a by-lined report by Neeta Sharma. Surprisingly, the reporter quoted me saying that I had confessed to being an agent, and to my illegal activities when I was appearing at one of the hearings at the sessions court. Later a police official asked me whether I had spoken to any reporter which I had denied. This really hurt my family and me. The next day my wife went to speak and complain to Shobhana Bhartia, Executive and Editorial Director of HT and told her all this was untrue and they should print an apology which the paper did. http://www.thehoot.org/web/home/searchdetail.php?sid=651&bg=1 Elsewhere, he has written about the same incident: The mother of all mischievous reports about me was by a Neeta Sharma, crime reporter of the Hindustan Times and now with the NDTV. She reported that I had admitted before the court to having ISI links. The report said, “Iftikhar Gilani, 35 year old son-in-law of Hurriyat hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani, is believed to have admitted in a city court that he was an agent of Pakistan’s spy agency”. She went even further, and reported that Syed Ali Geelani was so happy with Iftikhar’s working with the ISI that he gave his daughter to him in marriage. What a ridiculous report! Thanks to friends in the Hindustan Times, and its Deputy Chairperson Shobna Bharatiya, the paper corrected itself. http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media/ 29iftikar.pdf Not surprisingly, Iftikhar has criticised the decision to give Neeta Sharma an award despite her failure to acknowledge her mistake and her failure to apologise for the unsavoury incident: http://beta.milligazette.com/news/090-dubious-journalist-gets-award As a colleague and friend of Iftikhar, and as the author of the Introduction to his book, I have no hesitation in also expressing my unhappiness at her selection. I hope that even at this late stage, you as jury members can either find a way to withdraw this award or at least shame Neeta Sharma into acknowledging that the basic code of a good reporter involves respecting the truth and having the decency to say sorry when you make a grave mistake. Yours sincerely, Siddharth Varadarajan Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 19:32:42 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:32:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: <53907252-D525-4269-AA33-C0A32933F3E4@sarai.net> Message-ID: Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more > complicated and illegible than the judgement of the spectator. ' So the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question? Then why do you question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from the ICS? Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by telling you he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a copy of the challan which you thought due to you. On 07/09/10 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > The so called iron frame of indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS officers. > It was more than getting on with life :) On Kashmir i understand very little > to be able to comment. But some comments seem to mock the people who are > trying to articulate something substantial. A little caution about > interpreting quickly. The maxim of the actors are always far more > complicated and illegible than the judgement of the spectator. On > 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > Did they? Or did they do what most > people do, make their peace with > the new > dispensation and get on with > life. > > The point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 > > young men > applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people > are > describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K > > Police as > an abhorrent force? Can it be that they are the relatives of men > > who are > already in the JKP? Can it be that they don't subscribe to > azadi? > And how > do the families of tens of thousands of men who are in > the JKP and > JAKLI see > their kin? > > Another puzzling matter: we speak > of the AFSPA and its revocation > but the > JKP is not protected by the Act. > And one more thing: the army, that > has > been responsible for the worst > human rights abuses in the last 2 > decades is > not targeted by the > stone-pelters. They continue their work of > patrolling > and cordon & > search operations as if they live on another planet. > The target > is > always the JKP. > > > On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, "Jeebesh" > wrote: > >> agreed. but how come they all became unquestionable nationalists > >> after >> > 1947? > > On 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> You're > right Jeebesh, and >> most people who were recruited were >> absolutely >> > loyal to the British >> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. >> And > why >> just speak of the >> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply > divided >> and very >> few at the >> time articulated it as a 'war for > independence.' It >> would be >> foolish to >> say that those who served the > British Empire were closet >> nationalists forced >> into furthering their > careers by joining the >> army or >> ICS. >> >> >> On >> 07/09/10 5:22 PM, > "Jeebesh" wrote: >> >>> recruitment in >> indian > subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in >> the >>> british army >> was > very high. what did this say about the aspiration >> and lives >>> being > led >> at that time in the sub continent. do we even >> count that number >>> > today in >> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub >> continent? >> >> On > 07-Sep-10, at >>> 2:10 >> PM, SJabbar wrote: >> >>> But Gowhar, what happens > when a man who hitherto >>> >> abhors an >>> institution joins >>> it? What > happens to that extreme emotion >>> >> when the line is crossed, >>> when > the >>> uniform is donned, when the >> 'danda' >>> drops firmly into his > hands? >>> By your logic all those who joined >> the force >>> post-1990 once > abhorred >>> the >>> institution and now have become >> the >>> oppressors. > And those who pelt >>> stones >>> at the oppressors now want >> to >>> join > the same hated institution only >>> to become >>> future oppressors? >> > Not >>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may >>> understand this, but > I >> have to >>> tell you, it's left me totally >>> perplexed. >>> >>> >>> On > 07/09/10 >> 1:58 PM, >>> "gowhar fazli" > wrote: >>> >>>>> I don't >> like the heading >>> "Why Kashmir >>>> defies > solutions". >>>> >>>> It is in >>>>> >> these moments that the >>> real > desperation and loss >>>> of self of Kashmiris >> as a >>>>> people > becomes >>> evident. For >>>> livelihood they have to stoop >> before the > same >>>>> >>> institutions >>>> that torment them or that they abhor >> for > obvious >>> reasons. >>>> >>>>> This contradiction that runs through their >> > very selves, >>>> >>> prevents people >>>>> from acquiring a full blown >> > human-hood. >>>> >>>> There should >>> be no guilt or >>>>> indignity > associated >> with >>>> acquiring of livelihood >>> through legitimate > means, >>>>> but >> this >>>> is the case one way or the other, >>> for most > people in >>>> >> Kashmir. >>>>> The boundaries between legitimate and >>> > illegitimate >>>> are >> dizzyingly fuzzy >>>>> because of the manner in which > the >>>> >>> selves are >> split. >>>> >>>> If not for any >>>>> other but for > the indignities >>> involved >> in >>>> the status quo that Kashmir > issue >>>>> should be resolved for >>>> >>> >> good. >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, > 9/7/10, SJabbar >>>>> >>>> >>> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> > From: SJabbar >>>>> >>>>> Subject: >>> >> > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>>> solutions >>>>> To: "Sarai" >>> >> > >>>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 >> > AM >>>>> >>> Printed from >>>>> >>>>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>>> Kashmiris > apply for >> 3,000 >>> police >>>> jobs >>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep > 7, >>>>> 2010, 01.30am >> IST >>>>> >>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of > desertions in its ranks >>>> >>>>> >> and >>>>> threats of >>> social >>>>> > boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big >> draw >>>>> for >>>> > young >>>>> >>> job hunters in >>>>> employment-starved >> Kashmir. Ignoring > calls >>>>> by >>>> >>> hardliners to >>>>> shun the khaki >>>>> >> force, > nearly 60,000 men applied >>>>> for >>> less than 3,000 >>>> jobs >>>>> in >> > J&K police -- >>>>> about 200 applicants for >>>>> >>> one constable's >> > post. >>>>> >>>>> The applications piled up over the last few >>>>> >>> >> > months, >>>> about >>>>> the time when the >>>>> situation in the Valley >> > appeared >>> to >>>>> be spinning out >>>> of >>>>> control with the > cops >>>>> >> particularly being >>> at the >>>>> receiving end of public >>>> > wrath. >>>>> >>>>> >> J&K police DG Kuldeep >>> Khoda said >>>>> the > department >>>> has >>>>> received >> 58,975 >>>>> applications, >>> against > 2,786 >>>>> vacancies across the >>>> >> Valley. >>>>> "The response > from >>>>> >>> (the worst-hit) >>>>> Srinagar and >> Budgam districts was > even >>>> more >>>>> >>> heartening," he >>>>> said. >>>>> >> "We've received > 2,860 applications, against >>> 529 >>>> posts >>>>> in >> > Srinagar >>>>> >>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >>> Budgam," he >> > said. >>>>> >>>>> Lack of jobs >>>>> has been a big spur for the >>> > protests >>>> >> that >>>>> brought thousands of >>>>> >>>>> young educated > men on to the >>> >> streets. Official >>>> estimates of >>>>> the > number >>>>> of >>>>> unemployed in >> the >>> Valley stands at 3 > lakhs. >>>>> >>>>> Khoda told >>>>> reporters the >> department held >>> > a >>>> recruitment >>>>> rally in Baramulla >>>>> >>>>> >> district in July > and was >>> overwhelmed with the >>>> response. >>>>> "Over >> 8,000 >>>>> > people >>>>> turned up for >>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>>> >> > district," >>>>> he >>>>> said, and added >>>>> >>> that even stone-pelters >> > attended the rally. He said >>>> >>>>> the >>>>> department >>> was >>>>> > mulling >> more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>>> across >>>> the >>>>> >>> > Valley, >> particularly >>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>>>> > the >>> >> unrest. >>>>> >>>>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions > and >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> insubordination. He claimed >>>>> no police personnel > had quit since >>> >> mid-June >>>>> when >>>> Kashmir >>>>> erupted in > anger >>>>> against the >> alleged >>> staged encounter >>>>> of three > north >>>> Kashmir >>>>> youth and >> a >>>>> 17-year-old >>> boy's killing > in >>>>> police action. Over 60 >>>> >> people, >>>>> including > women >>>>> >>> and children, have >>>>> died in police >> firing on >>>> > protesters >>>>> since >>> then. >>>>> >>>>> State >>>>> government >> sources > said J&K CM Omar >>>> Abdullah, >>> who >>>>> has called for a >>>>> >>>>> >> > proactive approach including the phased >>> revocation of >>>> > the >>>>> >>>>> >> controversial >>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act >>> to > deal with >> street >>>>> >>>>> protests, has ordered >>>>> creation of more > police >>> jobs to >> induct youth from >>>>> the >>>>> troubled > areas. >>>>> >>>>> Meanwhile, in >>> its >> ongoing drive to reach out >>>>> > to the >>>> people, >>>>> Kashmir range >>>>> >> IGP >>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, > attended >>>>> police-public >>>> meetings in >>>>> >> Ganderbal >>> and >>>>> > Budgam districts. "At >>>>> Ganderbal District Police >>>> >> Lines, >>>>> >>> > around 300 people >>>>> including senior >>>>> citizens and >> sarpanchs >>> > participated," >>>> a >>>>> police spokesman >>>>> said. >>>>> "Sahai >> > assured the >>> people that police will >>>> adopt >>>>> maximum >> > restraint >>>>> >>>>> while dealing >>> with law and order >> > situations." >>>>> >>>>> >>> > _________________________________________ >>>>> >> reader-list: an open >>> > discussion >>>>> list on media and the >>>>> city. >>>>> >> Critiques & >>> > Collaborations >>>>> To >>>>> subscribe: send an email to >>> >> > reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>> with subscribe >>>>> in the subject >>> >> > header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List > archive: >>>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open >>> >> discussion >>>>> list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To >>> subscribe: send an >>>>> email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >>> in the subject >>>>> > header. >>> To unsubscribe: >>>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List > archive: >>>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open >> > discussion >>> list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To >> subscribe: send >>> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe >> in the subject >>> header. >>> To unsubscribe: >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > __________________________ >>> _______________ >> reader-list: an open >> > discussion list on media and the >>> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > To >> subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To >>> unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > > ______________________ >> ___________________ > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________________________ > _______________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 19:59:30 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:59:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: <53907252-D525-4269-AA33-C0A32933F3E4@sarai.net> Message-ID: if suddenly Govt of J&K invites applications for 3000 Molvies in Kashmir for teaching Quran, i dont think 60000 applications would be there, because there are not many qualified Moulvies in kashmir unlike Bihar/UP ( who interestingly find some work in kashmir, not for love of Islam but for bread and butter ) but that does not mean Kashmiris would not like to be Govt Moulvies A job is a job is a job, we may respect the desire to earn to live. Whatever that be.... The J&K police tag will not be a stigma to any new recruit in kashmir, because people know how to value two square meals. Agricultural base in kashmir is not strong to sustain most of the families, and they need some support base. We all do jobs, whether we like it or not... let us respect all those who seek jobs.... If the Kashmir situation continues like that, the Govt would find it difficult to deal with people in coming years. that is the discourse, perhaps, which we may continue with... love is On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 7:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more >> complicated and illegible > than the judgement of the spectator. > ' > > So the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question?  Then why do you > question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from the ICS? > Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by telling you > he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a copy of the > challan which you thought due to you. > > > > > On 07/09/10 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > >> The so called iron frame of indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > officers. >> It was more than getting on with life :) > > On Kashmir i understand very little >> to be able to comment. But some > comments seem to mock the people who are >> trying to articulate > something substantial. A little caution   about >> interpreting quickly. > The maxim of the actors are always far more >> complicated and illegible > than the judgement of the spectator. > > On >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> Did they?  Or did they do what most >> people do, make their peace with >> the new >> dispensation and get on with >> life. >> >> The point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 >> >> young men >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people >> are >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K >> >> Police as >> an abhorrent force?  Can it be that they are the relatives of men >> >> who are >> already in the JKP?  Can it be that they don't subscribe to >> azadi? >> And how >> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are in >> the JKP and >> JAKLI see >> their kin? >> >> Another puzzling matter:  we speak >> of the AFSPA and its revocation >> but the >> JKP is not protected by the Act. >> And one more thing: the army, that >> has >> been responsible for the worst >> human rights abuses in the last 2 >> decades is >> not targeted by the >> stone-pelters.  They continue their work of >> patrolling >> and cordon & >> search operations as if they live on another planet. >> The target >> is >> always the JKP. >> >> >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, "Jeebesh" >> wrote: >> >>> agreed. but how come they all became unquestionable nationalists >> >>> after >>> >> 1947? >> >> On 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: >> >>> You're >> right Jeebesh, and >>> most people who were recruited were >>> absolutely >>> >> loyal to the British >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. >>> And >> why >>> just speak of the >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply >> divided >>> and very >>> few at the >>> time articulated it as a 'war for >> independence.'  It >>> would be >>> foolish to >>> say that those who served the >> British Empire were closet >>> nationalists forced >>> into furthering their >> careers by joining the >>> army or >>> ICS. >>> >>> >>> On >>> 07/09/10 5:22 PM, >> "Jeebesh" wrote: >>> >>>> recruitment in >>> indian >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in >>> the >>>> british army >>> was >> very high. what did this say about the aspiration >>> and lives >>>> being >> led >>> at that time in the sub continent. do we even >>> count that number >>>> >> today in >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub >>> continent? >>> >>> On >> 07-Sep-10, at >>>> 2:10 >>> PM, SJabbar wrote: >>> >>>> But Gowhar, what happens >> when a man who hitherto >>>> >>> abhors an >>>> institution joins >>>> it? What >> happens to that extreme emotion >>>> >>> when the line is crossed, >>>> when >> the >>>> uniform is donned, when the >>> 'danda' >>>> drops firmly into his >> hands? >>>> By your logic all those who joined >>> the force >>>> post-1990 once >> abhorred >>>> the >>>> institution and now have become >>> the >>>> oppressors. >> And those who pelt >>>> stones >>>> at the oppressors now want >>> to >>>> join >> the same hated institution only >>>> to become >>>> future oppressors? >>> >> Not >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men?  You may >>>> understand this, but >> I >>> have to >>>> tell you, it's left me totally >>>> perplexed. >>>> >>>> >>>> On >> 07/09/10 >>> 1:58 PM, >>>> "gowhar fazli" >> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I don't >>> like the heading >>>> "Why Kashmir >>>>> defies >> solutions". >>>>> >>>>> It is in >>>>>> >>> these moments that the >>>> real >> desperation and loss >>>>> of self of Kashmiris >>> as a >>>>>> people >> becomes >>>> evident. For >>>>> livelihood they have to stoop >>> before the >> same >>>>>> >>>> institutions >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor >>> for >> obvious >>>> reasons. >>>>> >>>>>> This contradiction that runs through their >>> >> very selves, >>>>> >>>> prevents people >>>>>> from acquiring a full blown >>> >> human-hood. >>>>> >>>>> There should >>>> be no guilt or >>>>>> indignity >> associated >>> with >>>>> acquiring of livelihood >>>> through legitimate >> means, >>>>>> but >>> this >>>>> is the case one way or the other, >>>> for most >> people in >>>>> >>> Kashmir. >>>>>> The boundaries between legitimate and >>>> >> illegitimate >>>>> are >>> dizzyingly fuzzy >>>>>> because of the manner in which >> the >>>>> >>>> selves are >>> split. >>>>> >>>>> If not for any >>>>>> other but for >> the indignities >>>> involved >>> in >>>>> the status quo that Kashmir >> issue >>>>>> should be resolved for >>>>> >>>> >>> good. >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, >> 9/7/10, SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >> From: SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: >>>> >>> >> [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>>>> solutions >>>>>> To: "Sarai" >>>> >>> >> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>>>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 >>> >> AM >>>>>> >>>> Printed from >>>>>> >>>>>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>>>> Kashmiris >> apply for >>> 3,000 >>>> police >>>>> jobs >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep >> 7, >>>>>> 2010, 01.30am >>> IST >>>>>> >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of >> desertions in its ranks >>>>> >>>>>> >>> and >>>>>> threats of >>>> social >>>>>> >> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big >>> draw >>>>>> for >>>>> >> young >>>>>> >>>> job hunters in >>>>>> employment-starved >>> Kashmir. Ignoring >> calls >>>>>> by >>>>> >>>> hardliners to >>>>>> shun the khaki >>>>>> >>> force, >> nearly 60,000 men applied >>>>>> for >>>> less than 3,000 >>>>> jobs >>>>>> in >>> >> J&K police -- >>>>>> about 200 applicants for >>>>>> >>>> one constable's >>> >> post. >>>>>> >>>>>> The applications piled up over the last few >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> months, >>>>> about >>>>>> the time when the >>>>>> situation in the Valley >>> >> appeared >>>> to >>>>>> be spinning out >>>>> of >>>>>> control with the >> cops >>>>>> >>> particularly being >>>> at the >>>>>> receiving end of public >>>>> >> wrath. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> J&K police DG Kuldeep >>>> Khoda said >>>>>> the >> department >>>>> has >>>>>> received >>> 58,975 >>>>>> applications, >>>> against >> 2,786 >>>>>> vacancies across the >>>>> >>> Valley. >>>>>> "The response >> from >>>>>> >>>> (the worst-hit) >>>>>> Srinagar and >>> Budgam districts was >> even >>>>> more >>>>>> >>>> heartening," he >>>>>> said. >>>>>> >>> "We've received >> 2,860 applications, against >>>> 529 >>>>> posts >>>>>> in >>> >> Srinagar >>>>>> >>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >>>> Budgam," he >>> >> said. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lack of jobs >>>>>> has been a big spur for the >>>> >> protests >>>>> >>> that >>>>>> brought thousands of >>>>>> >>>>>> young educated >> men on to the >>>> >>> streets. Official >>>>> estimates of >>>>>> the >> number >>>>>> of >>>>>> unemployed in >>> the >>>> Valley stands at 3 >> lakhs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Khoda told >>>>>> reporters the >>> department held >>>> >> a >>>>> recruitment >>>>>> rally in Baramulla >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> district in July >> and was >>>> overwhelmed with the >>>>> response. >>>>>> "Over >>> 8,000 >>>>>> >> people >>>>>> turned up for >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>>>> >>> >> district," >>>>>> he >>>>>> said, and added >>>>>> >>>> that even stone-pelters >>> >> attended the rally. He said >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> department >>>> was >>>>>> >> mulling >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>>>> across >>>>> the >>>>>> >>>> >> Valley, >>> particularly >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>>>>> >> the >>>> >>> unrest. >>>>>> >>>>>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions >> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> insubordination. He claimed >>>>>> no police personnel >> had quit since >>>> >>> mid-June >>>>>> when >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> erupted in >> anger >>>>>> against the >>> alleged >>>> staged encounter >>>>>> of three >> north >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> youth and >>> a >>>>>> 17-year-old >>>> boy's killing >> in >>>>>> police action. Over 60 >>>>> >>> people, >>>>>> including >> women >>>>>> >>>> and children, have >>>>>> died in police >>> firing on >>>>> >> protesters >>>>>> since >>>> then. >>>>>> >>>>>> State >>>>>> government >>> sources >> said J&K CM Omar >>>>> Abdullah, >>>> who >>>>>> has called for a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> proactive approach including the phased >>>> revocation of >>>>> >> the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> controversial >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act >>>> to >> deal with >>> street >>>>>> >>>>>> protests, has ordered >>>>>> creation of more >> police >>>> jobs to >>> induct youth from >>>>>> the >>>>>> troubled >> areas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Meanwhile, in >>>> its >>> ongoing drive to reach out >>>>>> >> to the >>>>> people, >>>>>> Kashmir range >>>>>> >>> IGP >>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, >> attended >>>>>> police-public >>>>> meetings in >>>>>> >>> Ganderbal >>>> and >>>>>> >> Budgam districts. "At >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police >>>>> >>> Lines, >>>>>> >>>> >> around 300 people >>>>>> including senior >>>>>> citizens and >>> sarpanchs >>>> >> participated," >>>>> a >>>>>> police spokesman >>>>>> said. >>>>>> "Sahai >>> >> assured the >>>> people that police will >>>>> adopt >>>>>> maximum >>> >> restraint >>>>>> >>>>>> while dealing >>>> with law and order >>> >> situations." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> _________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> reader-list: an open >>>> >> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the >>>>>> city. >>>>>> >>> Critiques & >>>> >> Collaborations >>>>>> To >>>>>> subscribe: send an email to >>>> >>> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>>> with subscribe >>>>>> in the subject >>>> >>> >> header. >>>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>>> List >> archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> >> reader-list: an open >>>> >>> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the city. >>>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >>> To >>>> subscribe: send an >>>>>> email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>>> in the subject >>>>>> >> header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List >> archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open >>> >> discussion >>>> list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >> To >>> subscribe: send >>>> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >> subscribe >>> in the subject >>>> header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> __________________________ >>>> _______________ >>> reader-list: an open >>> >> discussion list on media and the >>>> city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To >>> subscribe: send an email to >>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in >>> the subject header. >>> To >>>> unsubscribe: >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> >> ______________________ >>> ___________________ >> reader-list: an open >> discussion list on media and the >>> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To >> subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To >>> unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion >> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > __________________________ >> _______________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 20:20:42 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 20:20:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: <891709.43725.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <891709.43725.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra ji In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it go to dogs, anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to corruption ( CWG), decay of food grains etc, how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for the safety of society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial watchers) , we should actually close down all the Art institutions in India and hand over to religious preachers or some corporate houses which can give them some money for buying properties abroad. we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am wondering even why i posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against Hussain paintings, but none against poor people who live under bridges. We have no desire to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below poverty line population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, head piece filled with straw." This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( khajuraho etc ), its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all ancient text ), but what we love is territory, flag,  army and tight disciplined bureaucracy. We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but desire for lean blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to liberate ... Mera Bharat Mahaan love is On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Inder > > It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake. > > The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. > > On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no great reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable if Nehru Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did not want to risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before taking the action though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. > > Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to "saffron". In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda. > > If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step forward and give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these whines about "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" and "decaying food grains" > > You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things addressed by your own participation in the political processes or interventions through RTI and Courts of Law. > > Kshmendra > > PS. Do you have anything other than whines? > > > --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > To: "reader-list" > Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM > > Thanks dear Kshmendra > > "This is the > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." > > > well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands > of saffron brigade > but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our > politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like > CWG > > This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing words > it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other > sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad > > best > is > > > On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms > > -- > > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist > > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the > > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. > > > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli > > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, > > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a > > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of > > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad > > taste and created controversy". > > > > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' > > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi > > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the > > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune > > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr > > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude > > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. > > > > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to > > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said > > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent > > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. > > > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any > > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru > > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings > > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to > > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on > > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and > > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and > > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do > > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public > > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. > > > > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the > > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as > > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the > > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on > > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits > > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind > > Faith' to be controversial." > > > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded > > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. > > > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - > > Mumbai - City - The Times of India > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From tasveerghar at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 20:43:55 2010 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 20:43:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Man Who Was Seen Too Much Message-ID: Dear friends Greetings from Tasveer Ghar, the house of images. With great pleasure, we would like to announce a new visual essay related to cinema poster art on the Tasveer Ghar website: “The Man Who Was Seen Too Much: Amitabh Bachchan on Film Posters” By Ranjani Mazumdar http://tasveerghar.net/cmsdesk/essay/106/ Ranjani Mazumdar is Associate Professor of Cinema Studies at the School of Arts & Aesthetics, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi. We hope that you are enjoying our recent series of visual essays based on the Priya Paul Collection of Popular Art. Thanks and looking forward to your visit to Tasveer Ghar The Tasveer Ghar team www.tasveerghar.net From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 23:05:00 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 23:05:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Siddharth Varadarajan on the injustice of an award to Neeta Sharma In-Reply-To: <87F0BF9A-B557-4043-A011-11EB2D1FC757@sarai.net> References: <87F0BF9A-B557-4043-A011-11EB2D1FC757@sarai.net> Message-ID: Let those journalists be exposed who visit the Pak High Commission at Chanakyapuri every Friday evening. I'll be questioned, is it a crime to visit Pak High Commission? No. But, it isn't common either, that too on regular basis. My dear friend, Iftikharji 'writes well'. He has supported us in the past against terrorists like Bitta Karate aka Farooq Ahmed Dar of JKLF (R-I suppose the 4the faction) in his columns. He happens to be the son-in-law of well known 'saint' of Kashmir Syed Ali Shah Geelani (81), responsible for blood on the streets of Kashmir. Apart from Kashmir Times, Iftikharji writes even in Pak based Daily Times and again 'writes well'. I don't think writings on Vardarajan's blog will help. He is known to be personally close to senior NDTV anchor. How will he help the cause? Some double standards, clearly. If the matter is serious, as it seems, the journalist with a strong lobby to back him from media, sarai and otherwise should approach the court. I'm sure even Neeta Sharma is a senior journalist with fair track record. She has covered crime and MHA for many years. She might have an important take on this issue, which seems to be missing. Just curious. I hope my honest suggestion is taken well. Regards Aditya Raj Kaul On 9/7/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > Dear all, > > Please do read and circulate Siddharth Varadarajan's excoriating > critique (posted yesterday on his blog) of the way in which the > unethical conduct of a journalist Neeta Sharma has been awarded with > the Indian News Broadcasting Award for 'News Reporter of the Year > 2010'. Ms. Sharma, currently with NDTV planted false stories about > the journalist Iftikhar Gilani while she was a reporter with the > Hindustan Times. > > best > > Shuddha > ---------- > > http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/2010/09/such-journalists-should-be- > exposed-not.html > > 06 September 2010 > Such journalists should be exposed, not honoured > > I have written to the jury which gave the Indian News Broadcasting > Award for News Reporter of the Year 2010, Hindi, to Neeta Sharma of > NDTV India, protesting their choice. > > Neeta Sharma was the reporter who wrote a false story in the Hindustan > Times in 2002 calling Iftikhar Gilani, a senior and respected > journalist who is the Delhi bureau chief of Kashmir Times, an ISI > agent. Her story, which was based on a plant by police and > intelligence officials, contributed to Iftikhar's incarceration and > caused him no end of trouble, especially with violent inmates and > jailors at Tihar. As a reporter, she has never apologised for her > story. Until she does so, I consider her a blight on my profession. I > am sickened by the thought that such a person could have received an > award for her so-called reporting. My letter -- and all the details of > that sordid incident -- is appended below ... > > Dear Vinod [Mehta] and other jury members, > > You were part of a jury that recently gave Neeta Sharma of NDTV India > a 'reporter of the year' award. > > While I am not familiar with her work on TV, her earlier work as a > reporter for HT was reprehensible. Indeed, I have no hesitation in > saying she was a blot on the profession of journalism. And that until > she makes amends by tendering an unqualified apology to the biggest > victim of her unprofessionalism -- Iftikhar Gilani -- she ought to be > considered beyond the pale. > > While at the HT, she was an accomplice in the police attempt to frame > Iftikhar Gilani, the respected bureau chief of Kashmir Times on false > charges. I have recorded the issue and circumstances of Neeta Sharma's > unethical behaviour in my Introduction to Gilani's book, My Days in > Prison, which was published by Penguin in 2005: > > Since the DGMI ‘opinion’ made no reference to the published > document, Iftikhar’s counsel tried in vain to have the courts take > cognisance of it and demand that the military provide a second opinion > expeditiously. Here, the case hit its third and fourth roadblocks, > which was the timorousness of the lower judiciary and media in matters > ostensibly relating to national security and official secrets. What > was surprising was that despite the alacrity of the courts in filing > contempt proceedings against those who try to manipulate the course of > justice by misreporting or misrepresenting what transpires during a > hearing, the concerned judge took no action against a wholly > fabricated news report which appeared in a national daily the first > time Iftikhar was produced in court: “In the course of hearing on > Monday, Geelani (sic) reportedly said he had been passing on > classified information about the movement of Indian troops to the ISI. > When chief metropolitan magistrate Sangita Sehgal asked him if she > should record this in his statement, Geelani nodded in assent.”[1] The > news was false and amounted to contempt of court. Yet, no action was > taken. > > As for the gullible crime reporter who was fed this story by the > Delhi Police Special Cell, no apology was ever made. I happened to be > introduced to the reporter in question at a colleague’s wedding in > 2004 and when I said I had a bone to pick with her because of the > hit-job she had done on Iftikhar Gilani, she said, “I don’t know any > Iftikhar Gilani”. I was angry but decided to give her a bit of advice: > “The police officials who used you to plant that story have escaped > with their reputations intact. But what you did will remain a blot on > your reputation as a journalist so long as you don’t apologise to > Iftikhar”. > > Neeta Sharma’s story was important to the police because it > appeared just at a time when a petition drafted by Aunohita Mojumdar > and other journalists and friends of Iftikhar was gathering steam. A > brief report about the campaign had appeared in The Times of India on > June 10 and the police and IB quickly realised the need to nip any > journalistic acts of solidarity in the bud. Editors could be leaned > upon (and they were) but there was no better deterrent to the > campaigning spirit than a concocted confession by Iftikhar that he had > been an ISI agent all along. Soon, the floodgates opened and any > number of malicious reports appeared across much of the Indian media > accusing Iftikhar of being a traitor and militant, smuggler and > jihadi, a sex fiend and “spy claiming the privileges of a newsman”, in > the libellous words of the Bharatiya Janata Party MP and one-time > journalist, Balbir K. Punj.[2] > > [1] Neeta Sharma, ‘Iftikar Geelani admits ISI links’, Hindustan > Times, June 11, 2002 [2] Balbir K. Punj, ‘Dissimulation in words and > in images’, Outlook, July 8, 2002 > http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/2005/02/my-foreword-to-iftikhar- > gilanis-my.html > > Iftikhar has also spoken about this in interviews and elsewhere: > > But what really affected my family and me most was a was a four > column story printed in Hindustan Times on June 11 saying I was an ISI > agent. It was a by-lined report by Neeta Sharma. Surprisingly, the > reporter quoted me saying that I had confessed to being an agent, and > to my illegal activities when I was appearing at one of the hearings > at the sessions court. Later a police official asked me whether I had > spoken to any reporter which I had denied. > > This really hurt my family and me. The next day my wife went to > speak and complain to Shobhana Bhartia, Executive and Editorial > Director of HT and told her all this was untrue and they should print > an apology which the paper did. > http://www.thehoot.org/web/home/searchdetail.php?sid=651&bg=1 > > Elsewhere, he has written about the same incident: > > The mother of all mischievous reports about me was by a Neeta > Sharma, crime > reporter of the Hindustan Times and now with the NDTV. She > reported that I had admitted before the court to having ISI links. The > report said, “Iftikhar Gilani, 35 year old son-in-law of Hurriyat > hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani, is believed to have admitted in a > city court that he was an agent of Pakistan’s spy agency”. She went > even further, and reported that Syed Ali Geelani was so happy with > Iftikhar’s working with the ISI that he gave his daughter to him in > marriage. What a ridiculous report! Thanks to friends in the Hindustan > Times, and its Deputy Chairperson Shobna Bharatiya, the paper > corrected itself. > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media/ > 29iftikar.pdf > > Not surprisingly, Iftikhar has criticised the decision to give Neeta > Sharma an award despite her failure to acknowledge her mistake and her > failure to apologise for the unsavoury incident: > http://beta.milligazette.com/news/090-dubious-journalist-gets-award > > As a colleague and friend of Iftikhar, and as the author of the > Introduction to his book, I have no hesitation in also expressing my > unhappiness at her selection. > > I hope that even at this late stage, you as jury members can either > find a way to withdraw this award or at least shame Neeta Sharma into > acknowledging that the basic code of a good reporter involves > respecting the truth and having the decency to say sorry when you make > a grave mistake. > > Yours sincerely, > > Siddharth Varadarajan > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Cell - +91-9873297834 Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 23:12:59 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 23:12:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Siddharth Varadarajan on the injustice of an award to Neeta Sharma In-Reply-To: References: <87F0BF9A-B557-4043-A011-11EB2D1FC757@sarai.net> Message-ID: Talking about journalists, I would like to know what can be done about Praveen Swami? I wonder if the next biggest Wikileak will be US intelligence using his services to fabricate evidence and launch an assault in Iraq. As for Aditya jee, I think going to court in India is a nice way to say that get lost, we hardly care about you. We all know how courts function in India. The point is not about going to court. The point is about a fair way of representing things which we all must have a right to, notwithstanding the allegations against us. Rakesh On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Let those journalists be exposed who visit the Pak High Commission at > Chanakyapuri every Friday evening. I'll be questioned, is it a crime > to visit Pak High Commission? No. But, it isn't common either, that > too on regular basis. > > My dear friend, Iftikharji 'writes well'. He has supported us in the > past against terrorists like Bitta Karate aka Farooq Ahmed Dar of JKLF > (R-I suppose the 4the faction) in his columns. He happens to be the > son-in-law of well known 'saint' of Kashmir Syed Ali Shah Geelani > (81), responsible for blood on the streets of Kashmir. Apart from > Kashmir Times, Iftikharji writes even in Pak based Daily Times and > again 'writes well'. > > I don't think writings on Vardarajan's blog will help. He is known to > be personally close to senior NDTV anchor. How will he help the cause? > Some double standards, clearly. > > If the matter is serious, as it seems, the journalist with a strong > lobby to back him from media, sarai and otherwise should approach the > court. > > I'm sure even Neeta Sharma is a senior journalist with fair track > record. She has covered crime and MHA for many years. She might have > an important take on this issue, which seems to be missing. Just > curious. > > I hope my honest suggestion is taken well. > > Regards > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On 9/7/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > Please do read and circulate Siddharth Varadarajan's excoriating > > critique (posted yesterday on his blog) of the way in which the > > unethical conduct of a journalist Neeta Sharma has been awarded with > > the Indian News Broadcasting Award for 'News Reporter of the Year > > 2010'. Ms. Sharma, currently with NDTV planted false stories about > > the journalist Iftikhar Gilani while she was a reporter with the > > Hindustan Times. > > > > best > > > > Shuddha > > ---------- > > > > http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/2010/09/such-journalists-should-be- > > exposed-not.html > > > > 06 September 2010 > > Such journalists should be exposed, not honoured > > > > I have written to the jury which gave the Indian News Broadcasting > > Award for News Reporter of the Year 2010, Hindi, to Neeta Sharma of > > NDTV India, protesting their choice. > > > > Neeta Sharma was the reporter who wrote a false story in the Hindustan > > Times in 2002 calling Iftikhar Gilani, a senior and respected > > journalist who is the Delhi bureau chief of Kashmir Times, an ISI > > agent. Her story, which was based on a plant by police and > > intelligence officials, contributed to Iftikhar's incarceration and > > caused him no end of trouble, especially with violent inmates and > > jailors at Tihar. As a reporter, she has never apologised for her > > story. Until she does so, I consider her a blight on my profession. I > > am sickened by the thought that such a person could have received an > > award for her so-called reporting. My letter -- and all the details of > > that sordid incident -- is appended below ... > > > > Dear Vinod [Mehta] and other jury members, > > > > You were part of a jury that recently gave Neeta Sharma of NDTV India > > a 'reporter of the year' award. > > > > While I am not familiar with her work on TV, her earlier work as a > > reporter for HT was reprehensible. Indeed, I have no hesitation in > > saying she was a blot on the profession of journalism. And that until > > she makes amends by tendering an unqualified apology to the biggest > > victim of her unprofessionalism -- Iftikhar Gilani -- she ought to be > > considered beyond the pale. > > > > While at the HT, she was an accomplice in the police attempt to frame > > Iftikhar Gilani, the respected bureau chief of Kashmir Times on false > > charges. I have recorded the issue and circumstances of Neeta Sharma's > > unethical behaviour in my Introduction to Gilani's book, My Days in > > Prison, which was published by Penguin in 2005: > > > > Since the DGMI ‘opinion’ made no reference to the published > > document, Iftikhar’s counsel tried in vain to have the courts take > > cognisance of it and demand that the military provide a second opinion > > expeditiously. Here, the case hit its third and fourth roadblocks, > > which was the timorousness of the lower judiciary and media in matters > > ostensibly relating to national security and official secrets. What > > was surprising was that despite the alacrity of the courts in filing > > contempt proceedings against those who try to manipulate the course of > > justice by misreporting or misrepresenting what transpires during a > > hearing, the concerned judge took no action against a wholly > > fabricated news report which appeared in a national daily the first > > time Iftikhar was produced in court: “In the course of hearing on > > Monday, Geelani (sic) reportedly said he had been passing on > > classified information about the movement of Indian troops to the ISI. > > When chief metropolitan magistrate Sangita Sehgal asked him if she > > should record this in his statement, Geelani nodded in assent.”[1] The > > news was false and amounted to contempt of court. Yet, no action was > > taken. > > > > As for the gullible crime reporter who was fed this story by the > > Delhi Police Special Cell, no apology was ever made. I happened to be > > introduced to the reporter in question at a colleague’s wedding in > > 2004 and when I said I had a bone to pick with her because of the > > hit-job she had done on Iftikhar Gilani, she said, “I don’t know any > > Iftikhar Gilani”. I was angry but decided to give her a bit of advice: > > “The police officials who used you to plant that story have escaped > > with their reputations intact. But what you did will remain a blot on > > your reputation as a journalist so long as you don’t apologise to > > Iftikhar”. > > > > Neeta Sharma’s story was important to the police because it > > appeared just at a time when a petition drafted by Aunohita Mojumdar > > and other journalists and friends of Iftikhar was gathering steam. A > > brief report about the campaign had appeared in The Times of India on > > June 10 and the police and IB quickly realised the need to nip any > > journalistic acts of solidarity in the bud. Editors could be leaned > > upon (and they were) but there was no better deterrent to the > > campaigning spirit than a concocted confession by Iftikhar that he had > > been an ISI agent all along. Soon, the floodgates opened and any > > number of malicious reports appeared across much of the Indian media > > accusing Iftikhar of being a traitor and militant, smuggler and > > jihadi, a sex fiend and “spy claiming the privileges of a newsman”, in > > the libellous words of the Bharatiya Janata Party MP and one-time > > journalist, Balbir K. Punj.[2] > > > > [1] Neeta Sharma, ‘Iftikar Geelani admits ISI links’, Hindustan > > Times, June 11, 2002 [2] Balbir K. Punj, ‘Dissimulation in words and > > in images’, Outlook, July 8, 2002 > > http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/2005/02/my-foreword-to-iftikhar- > > gilanis-my.html > > > > Iftikhar has also spoken about this in interviews and elsewhere: > > > > But what really affected my family and me most was a was a four > > column story printed in Hindustan Times on June 11 saying I was an ISI > > agent. It was a by-lined report by Neeta Sharma. Surprisingly, the > > reporter quoted me saying that I had confessed to being an agent, and > > to my illegal activities when I was appearing at one of the hearings > > at the sessions court. Later a police official asked me whether I had > > spoken to any reporter which I had denied. > > > > This really hurt my family and me. The next day my wife went to > > speak and complain to Shobhana Bhartia, Executive and Editorial > > Director of HT and told her all this was untrue and they should print > > an apology which the paper did. > > http://www.thehoot.org/web/home/searchdetail.php?sid=651&bg=1 > > > > Elsewhere, he has written about the same incident: > > > > The mother of all mischievous reports about me was by a Neeta > > Sharma, crime > > reporter of the Hindustan Times and now with the NDTV. She > > reported that I had admitted before the court to having ISI links. The > > report said, “Iftikhar Gilani, 35 year old son-in-law of Hurriyat > > hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani, is believed to have admitted in a > > city court that he was an agent of Pakistan’s spy agency”. She went > > even further, and reported that Syed Ali Geelani was so happy with > > Iftikhar’s working with the ISI that he gave his daughter to him in > > marriage. What a ridiculous report! Thanks to friends in the Hindustan > > Times, and its Deputy Chairperson Shobna Bharatiya, the paper > > corrected itself. > > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media/ > > 29iftikar.pdf > > > > Not surprisingly, Iftikhar has criticised the decision to give Neeta > > Sharma an award despite her failure to acknowledge her mistake and her > > failure to apologise for the unsavoury incident: > > http://beta.milligazette.com/news/090-dubious-journalist-gets-award > > > > As a colleague and friend of Iftikhar, and as the author of the > > Introduction to his book, I have no hesitation in also expressing my > > unhappiness at her selection. > > > > I hope that even at this late stage, you as jury members can either > > find a way to withdraw this award or at least shame Neeta Sharma into > > acknowledging that the basic code of a good reporter involves > > respecting the truth and having the decency to say sorry when you make > > a grave mistake. > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > Siddharth Varadarajan > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > India Editor > The Indian, Australia > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From iram at sarai.net Wed Sep 8 01:47:50 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 02:17:50 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Anarchist Bookfair, Feminist Fightback, Historical Materialism, Radical Anthropology Group Message-ID: <4C869DEE.5000906@sarai.net> Subject:Anarchist Bookfair, Feminist Fightback, Historical Materialism, Radical Anthropology Group From:9000lmn at gmx.com Date:Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:02:46 +0200 To:9000lmn at gmx.com Please publicise these meetings widely, thankyou: >>> FROM MELTDOWN TO UPHEAVAL >>> A Conference of Working-Class Reflection and Action 10am-7pm Saturday September 11 at LARC, Fieldgate St., E1 (Whitechapel tube). Sessions on: 1)The global crisis; 2)Local struggles in workplaces, housing, universities and public services; 3)Rank-and-file organising, migrant struggles, publications; 4)Future coordination See THE COMMUNE website for further details and future meetings. >> AN INTRODUCTION TO ANTHROPOLOGY – THE HUMAN REVOLUTION Tuesdays, 6.45-9pm St. Martin's Community Centre, 43 Carol St., NW1 (2 mins from Camden tube). It is now known that symbolic culture began emerging in Africa some 100,000 years ago, in a social revolution whose echoes can still be heard in mythic narratives and ritual traditions from around the world. This course is a general introduction to anthropology including the latest findings from evolutionary biology, primatology, rock art research and archaeology. The course should also be enjoyable: there are good local pubs, and there is always time for discussion and socialising. Sep 21 - Sleeping Beauty and other fairy tales, Chris Knight Sep 28 - Introduction to anthropology, Chris Knight Oct 5 - Revolutionary origins of society, Chris Knight Oct 12 - Primitive matriarchy, Chris Knight Oct 19 - Early human kinship, Chris Knight Oct 26 - Noam Chomsky, language and its origins, Chris Knight Nov 2 - Hunters' moon, Chris Knight Nov 9 - Why the Human Revolution theory is wrong, Zoao Zilhan Nov 16 - Behavioural origins of modern humans, Chris Stringer Nov 23 - Origins of art, Camilla Power Nov 30 - Mbenjele hunter-gatherers of central Africa, Jerome Lewis Dec 7 - What future for the African forest people? Jerome Lewis Dec 14 - Christmas fairytale, the shoes that danced themselves to pieces, Chris Knight The Human Revolution theory is summarised in articles at http://libcom.org/tags/hunter-gatherers and at http://www.radicalanthropologygroup.org LONDON ANARCHIST BOOKFAIR SATURDAY 23 OCTOBER 2010 10am-7pm Queen Mary, University Of London, Mile End Road, Mile End tube Paul Mason, Hillel Ticktin and Endnotes debate: 'Will Cameron's Cuts lead to working-class defeat or to a new anti-capitalist movement?' (Paul Mason's writings can be found at his blog at bbc.co.uk and Ticktin and Endnotes articles are at libcom.org) Chris Knight and Milan Rai debate Noam Chomsky's science and politics Plus talks with John Pilger and Michael Albert Also meetings on: India, Croatia, feminism, Palestine, Zapatistas, Gandhi, Proudhon, pirates, co-ops, prisons, EDL, education, healthworkers, shop stewards and more. See http://www.anarchistbookfair.org.uk/whatson.html for more details and for information about the: 'Housing Ourselves' conference - Sunday 24 October. women at the cutting edge conference organised by Feminist Fightback Saturday 30 October 11am-5pm Regent St. Cinema, University of Westminster, 309 Regent St., London W1 Open to people of all genders. Free creche. 70% of recent tax and benefit cuts will fall on women. Join a day of discussion and networking against the cuts. Workshops on: 1) Cuts and campaigning 2) Why are cuts a feminist issue? 3) Demystifying the economics of the crisis 4) Fighting within and against the state HISTORICAL MATERIALISM CONFERENCE 2010 'Crisis and Critique' – responses to the current crisis from a range of Marxist perspectives. Thur. 11 to Sun. 14 November, SOAS, University of London, Thornaugh St. WC1 (Russell Square tube). The full programme of meetings, with dozens of speakers from all over the world, will be ready in October. See www.historicalmaterialism.org/conferences HOUSMANS BOOKSHOP holds regular meetings and book launches on a wide range of issues at 5 Caledonian Road, Kings Cross, N1. See http://www.housmans.com/events.php for future events. Many other events in London can be found at http://london.indymedia.org.uk/ From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 04:27:30 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 18:57:30 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions References: <127491.27543.qm@web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16F7703A93574DF1A611FD8FB87ABD88@tara> My problem with the heading is that few thousand lumpins and few hundred terrorists are assumed to be the whole Kashmir. As some news items forwarded by Sonia suggest, people want normalcy to return. People voted whole heartedly for a government and police is part of the government. The government let them down, so people's anger is understandable. If people get paid for stone pelting and sloganeering, they will do that. If people get paid for stopping the stone pelters, they will do that too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gowhar fazli" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 4:28 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions >> I don't like the heading "Why Kashmir >> defies solutions". >> >> It is in these moments that the real desperation and loss >> of self of Kashmiris as a people becomes evident. For >> livelihood they have to stoop before the same institutions >> that torment them or that they abhor for obvious reasons. >> This contradiction that runs through their very selves, >> prevents people from acquiring a full blown human-hood. >> >> There should be no guilt or indignity associated with >> acquiring of livelihood through legitimate means, but this >> is the case one way or the other, for most people in >> Kashmir. The boundaries between legitimate and illegitimate >> are dizzyingly fuzzy because of the manner in which the >> selves are split. >> >> If not for any other but for the indignities involved in >> the status quo that Kashmir issue should be resolved for >> good. >> >> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >> wrote: >> >> > From: SJabbar >> > Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies solutions >> > To: "Sarai" >> > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM >> > Printed from >> > >> > Khaki enemy? 60,000 Kashmiris apply for 3,000 police >> jobs >> > M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, 2010, 01.30am IST >> > SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks >> and >> > threats of social >> > boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw for >> young >> > job hunters in >> > employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls by >> hardliners to >> > shun the khaki >> > force, nearly 60,000 men applied for less than 3,000 >> jobs >> > in J&K police -- >> > about 200 applicants for one constable's post. >> > >> > The applications piled up over the last few months, >> about >> > the time when the >> > situation in the Valley appeared to be spinning out >> of >> > control with the cops >> > particularly being at the receiving end of public >> wrath. >> > >> > J&K police DG Kuldeep Khoda said the department >> has >> > received 58,975 >> > applications, against 2,786 vacancies across the >> Valley. >> > "The response from >> > (the worst-hit) Srinagar and Budgam districts was even >> more >> > heartening," he >> > said. "We've received 2,860 applications, against 529 >> posts >> > in Srinagar >> > district, while 8053 against 283 in Budgam," he said. >> > >> > Lack of jobs has been a big spur for the protests >> that >> > brought thousands of >> > young educated men on to the streets. Official >> estimates of >> > the number of >> > unemployed in the Valley stands at 3 lakhs. >> > >> > Khoda told reporters the department held a >> recruitment >> > rally in Baramulla >> > district in July and was overwhelmed with the >> response. >> > "Over 8,000 people >> > turned up for 412 posts despite turmoil in the >> district," >> > he said, and added >> > that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said >> the >> > department was >> > mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives across >> the >> > Valley, particularly >> > in Srinagar's downtown area to end the unrest. >> > >> > The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and >> > insubordination. He claimed >> > no police personnel had quit since mid-June when >> Kashmir >> > erupted in anger >> > against the alleged staged encounter of three north >> Kashmir >> > youth and a >> > 17-year-old boy's killing in police action. Over 60 >> people, >> > including women >> > and children, have died in police firing on >> protesters >> > since then. >> > >> > State government sources said J&K CM Omar >> Abdullah, who >> > has called for a >> > proactive approach including the phased revocation of >> the >> > controversial >> > Armed Forces Special Forces Act to deal with street >> > protests, has ordered >> > creation of more police jobs to induct youth from the >> > troubled areas. >> > >> > Meanwhile, in its ongoing drive to reach out to the >> people, >> > Kashmir range >> > IGP Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended police-public >> meetings in >> > Ganderbal and >> > Budgam districts. "At Ganderbal District Police >> Lines, >> > around 300 people >> > including senior citizens and sarpanchs participated," >> a >> > police spokesman >> > said. "Sahai assured the people that police will >> adopt >> > maximum restraint >> > while dealing with law and order situations." >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 04:47:51 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:17:51 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. References: <891709.43725.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes we are hollow men, we are follow men, shallow men and mellow men. The artist concerned, and Taslima Nasreen and MF Hussain are so much luckier than Mr. Joseph a Malayalam teacher whose hands were chopped off by some terrorists for calling a mad man Mohammed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Inder Salim" To: "reader-list" Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > Dear Kshmendra ji > > In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it go to dogs, > anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to corruption ( CWG), decay > of food grains etc, > how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for the safety of > society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial watchers) , > > we should actually close down all the Art institutions in India and > hand over to religious preachers or some corporate houses which can > give them some money for buying properties abroad. > > we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am wondering even why i > posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against Hussain paintings, > but none against poor people who live under bridges. We have no desire > to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below poverty line > population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, head piece filled > with straw." > > This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( khajuraho etc ), > its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all ancient text ), > but what we love is territory, flag, army and tight disciplined > bureaucracy. > > We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but desire for lean > blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to liberate ... > > Mera Bharat Mahaan > > love > is > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> >> Dear Inder >> >> It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no >> reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake. >> >> The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. >> >> On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no great >> reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable if >> Nehru Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did >> not want to risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before >> taking the action though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. >> >> Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron >> brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to >> "saffron". In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda. >> >> If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to >> "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step forward and >> give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these whines >> about "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" >> and "decaying food grains" >> >> You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things addressed >> by your own participation in the political processes or interventions >> through RTI and Courts of Law. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> PS. Do you have anything other than whines? >> >> >> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim wrote: >> >> From: Inder Salim >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. >> To: "reader-list" >> Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM >> >> Thanks dear Kshmendra >> >> "This is the >> first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." >> >> >> well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands >> of saffron brigade >> but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our >> politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like >> CWG >> >> This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing >> words >> it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other >> sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad >> >> best >> is >> >> >> On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. >> > >> > >> > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: Inder Salim >> > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. >> > To: "reader-list" >> > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms >> > -- >> > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist >> > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the >> > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the >> > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. >> > >> > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli >> > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, >> > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a >> > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of >> > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad >> > taste and created controversy". >> > >> > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' >> > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi >> > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the >> > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune >> > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr >> > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude >> > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. >> > >> > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to >> > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said >> > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent >> > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. >> > >> > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any >> > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru >> > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings >> > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to >> > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on >> > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and >> > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and >> > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do >> > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public >> > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. >> > >> > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the >> > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as >> > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the >> > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on >> > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits >> > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind >> > Faith' to be controversial." >> > >> > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded >> > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. >> > >> > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - >> > Mumbai - City - The Times of India >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 08:36:06 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:36:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Inder, Sadly, a job isn't simply a job. You must have, as I have, watched with consternation over the years as young Kashmiris turn their backs on traditional crafts like papier mache, carpet and shawl weaving, wood carving leading to their decline. No longer does a son follow in the footsteps of his father, who may be a master craftsman. This has less to do with monetary returns than a sense of what constitutes an honorable job. Working with your hands is not considered respectable. If you ask a young Kashmiri farmer what he does for a living he will invariably answer that he is unemployed. Then when you find out that he's the owner of several kanals of land that not only feeds his family but also provides a surplus that he can sell, he will still shrug his shoulder and explain that it's not the same as a 'sarkari naukri.' This, notwithstanding the manifest hate for all things that have to do with the sarkar. And of all the sarkari naukris two posts still command the highest respect: that of a teacher and that of a policeman. There are touts who facilitate your entry and improve the chances of your bagging the post. The rate used to be Rs.50,000. I am told one can expect to pay up to Rs 3 Lakhs today. Notwithstanding the stone-pelters and the censure in the local press, a young man bagging a job with the JK Police can be assured of many things: respect in his village and a good marriage for starters. I find it interesting that despite the on-going movement for azadi that this aspiration stays intact. Rgds, sj On 07/09/10 7:59 PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > if suddenly Govt of J&K invites applications for 3000 Molvies in Kashmir for > teaching Quran, i dont think 60000 applications would be there, because there > are not many qualified Moulvies in kashmir unlike Bihar/UP ( who interestingly > find some work in kashmir, not for love of Islam but for bread and butter ) > but that does not mean Kashmiris would not like to be Govt Moulvies A job is > a job is a job, we may respect the desire to earn to live. Whatever that > be.... The J&K police tag will not be a stigma to any new recruit in kashmir, > because people know how to value two square meals. Agricultural base in > kashmir is not strong to sustain most of the families, and they need some > support base. We all do jobs, whether we like it or not... let us respect all > those who seek jobs.... If the Kashmir situation continues like that, the > Govt would find it difficult to deal with people in coming years. that is the > discourse, perhaps, which we may continue with... love is On Tue, Sep 7, > 2010 at 7:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > Why does > questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being > judgmental? You > say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more >> complicated and > illegible > than the judgement of the spectator. > ' > > So the spectator must > suspend judgment, must not question?  Then why do you > question when the > state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from the ICS? > Mysterious > motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by telling you > he can't > find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a copy of the > challan > which you thought due to you. > > > > > On 07/09/10 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" > wrote: > >> The so called iron frame of indian bureaucracy > is produced by ICS > officers. >> It was more than getting on with life :) > > > On Kashmir i understand very little >> to be able to comment. But some > > comments seem to mock the people who are >> trying to articulate > something > substantial. A little caution   about >> interpreting quickly. > The maxim of > the actors are always far more >> complicated and illegible > than the > judgement of the spectator. > > On >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 PM, SJabbar > wrote: > >> Did they?  Or did they do what most >> people do, make their peace > with >> the new >> dispensation and get on with >> life. >> >> The point is to > understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 >> >> young men >> applying > for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people >> are >> describing as > a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K >> >> Police as >> an > abhorrent force?  Can it be that they are the relatives of men >> >> who > are >> already in the JKP?  Can it be that they don't subscribe to >> > azadi? >> And how >> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are in >> > the JKP and >> JAKLI see >> their kin? >> >> Another puzzling matter:  we > speak >> of the AFSPA and its revocation >> but the >> JKP is not protected by > the Act. >> And one more thing: the army, that >> has >> been responsible for > the worst >> human rights abuses in the last 2 >> decades is >> not targeted > by the >> stone-pelters.  They continue their work of >> patrolling >> and > cordon & >> search operations as if they live on another planet. >> The > target >> is >> always the JKP. >> >> >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, "Jeebesh" > >> wrote: >> >>> agreed. but how come they all became > unquestionable nationalists >> >>> after >>> >> 1947? >> >> On 07-Sep-10, at > 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: >> >>> You're >> right Jeebesh, and >>> most people > who were recruited were >>> absolutely >>> >> loyal to the British >>> Empire > and deeply suspicious of the Congress. >>> And >> why >>> just speak of > the >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply >> divided >>> and very >>> > few at the >>> time articulated it as a 'war for >> independence.'  It >>> > would be >>> foolish to >>> say that those who served the >> British Empire > were closet >>> nationalists forced >>> into furthering their >> careers by > joining the >>> army or >>> ICS. >>> >>> >>> On >>> 07/09/10 5:22 PM, >> > "Jeebesh" wrote: >>> >>>> recruitment in >>> indian >> > subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in >>> the >>>> british army >>> > was >> very high. what did this say about the aspiration >>> and lives >>>> > being >> led >>> at that time in the sub continent. do we even >>> count that > number >>>> >> today in >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub >>> > continent? >>> >>> On >> 07-Sep-10, at >>>> 2:10 >>> PM, SJabbar > wrote: >>> >>>> But Gowhar, what happens >> when a man who hitherto >>>> >>> > abhors an >>>> institution joins >>>> it? What >> happens to that extreme > emotion >>>> >>> when the line is crossed, >>>> when >> the >>>> uniform is > donned, when the >>> 'danda' >>>> drops firmly into his >> hands? >>>> By your > logic all those who joined >>> the force >>>> post-1990 once >> abhorred >>>> > the >>>> institution and now have become >>> the >>>> oppressors. >> And those > who pelt >>>> stones >>>> at the oppressors now want >>> to >>>> join >> the > same hated institution only >>>> to become >>>> future oppressors? >>> >> > Not >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men?  You may >>>> understand this, > but >> I >>> have to >>>> tell you, it's left me totally >>>> > perplexed. >>>> >>>> >>>> On >> 07/09/10 >>> 1:58 PM, >>>> "gowhar fazli" > >> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I don't >>> like the > heading >>>> "Why Kashmir >>>>> defies >> solutions". >>>>> >>>>> It is > in >>>>>> >>> these moments that the >>>> real >> desperation and loss >>>>> > of self of Kashmiris >>> as a >>>>>> people >> becomes >>>> evident. For >>>>> > livelihood they have to stoop >>> before the >> same >>>>>> >>>> > institutions >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor >>> for >> > obvious >>>> reasons. >>>>> >>>>>> This contradiction that runs through > their >>> >> very selves, >>>>> >>>> prevents people >>>>>> from acquiring a > full blown >>> >> human-hood. >>>>> >>>>> There should >>>> be no guilt > or >>>>>> indignity >> associated >>> with >>>>> acquiring of livelihood >>>> > through legitimate >> means, >>>>>> but >>> this >>>>> is the case one way or > the other, >>>> for most >> people in >>>>> >>> Kashmir. >>>>>> The boundaries > between legitimate and >>>> >> illegitimate >>>>> are >>> dizzyingly > fuzzy >>>>>> because of the manner in which >> the >>>>> >>>> selves are >>> > split. >>>>> >>>>> If not for any >>>>>> other but for >> the indignities >>>> > involved >>> in >>>>> the status quo that Kashmir >> issue >>>>>> should be > resolved for >>>>> >>>> >>> good. >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, >> 9/7/10, > SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >> > From: SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: >>>> >>> >> > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>>>> solutions >>>>>> To: > "Sarai" >>>> >>> >> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>>>> > September 7, 2010, 10:19 >>> >> AM >>>>>> >>>> Printed from >>>>>> >>>>>> > Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>>>> Kashmiris >> apply for >>> 3,000 >>>> police >>>>> > jobs >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep >> 7, >>>>>> 2010, 01.30am >>> > IST >>>>>> >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of >> desertions in its > ranks >>>>> >>>>>> >>> and >>>>>> threats of >>>> social >>>>>> >> boycott, > J&K police has emerged as a big >>> draw >>>>>> for >>>>> >> young >>>>>> >>>> > job hunters in >>>>>> employment-starved >>> Kashmir. Ignoring >> calls >>>>>> > by >>>>> >>>> hardliners to >>>>>> shun the khaki >>>>>> >>> force, >> nearly > 60,000 men applied >>>>>> for >>>> less than 3,000 >>>>> jobs >>>>>> in >>> >> > J&K police -- >>>>>> about 200 applicants for >>>>>> >>>> one > constable's >>> >> post. >>>>>> >>>>>> The applications piled up over the last > few >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> months, >>>>> about >>>>>> the time when the >>>>>> > situation in the Valley >>> >> appeared >>>> to >>>>>> be spinning out >>>>> > of >>>>>> control with the >> cops >>>>>> >>> particularly being >>>> at > the >>>>>> receiving end of public >>>>> >> wrath. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> J&K > police DG Kuldeep >>>> Khoda said >>>>>> the >> department >>>>> has >>>>>> > received >>> 58,975 >>>>>> applications, >>>> against >> 2,786 >>>>>> > vacancies across the >>>>> >>> Valley. >>>>>> "The response >> > from >>>>>> >>>> (the worst-hit) >>>>>> Srinagar and >>> Budgam districts > was >> even >>>>> more >>>>>> >>>> heartening," he >>>>>> said. >>>>>> >>> > "We've received >> 2,860 applications, against >>>> 529 >>>>> posts >>>>>> > in >>> >> Srinagar >>>>>> >>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >>>> > Budgam," he >>> >> said. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lack of jobs >>>>>> has been a big spur > for the >>>> >> protests >>>>> >>> that >>>>>> brought thousands > of >>>>>> >>>>>> young educated >> men on to the >>>> >>> streets. > Official >>>>> estimates of >>>>>> the >> number >>>>>> of >>>>>> unemployed > in >>> the >>>> Valley stands at 3 >> lakhs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Khoda told >>>>>> > reporters the >>> department held >>>> >> a >>>>> recruitment >>>>>> rally in > Baramulla >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> district in July >> and was >>>> overwhelmed with > the >>>>> response. >>>>>> "Over >>> 8,000 >>>>>> >> people >>>>>> turned up > for >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>>>> >>> >> district," >>>>>> > he >>>>>> said, and added >>>>>> >>>> that even stone-pelters >>> >> attended > the rally. He said >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> department >>>> was >>>>>> >> > mulling >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>>>> across >>>>> > the >>>>>> >>>> >> Valley, >>> particularly >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > to end >>>>>> >> the >>>> >>> unrest. >>>>>> >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > reports on desertions >> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> insubordination. He > claimed >>>>>> no police personnel >> had quit since >>>> >>> mid-June >>>>>> > when >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> erupted in >> anger >>>>>> against the >>> > alleged >>>> staged encounter >>>>>> of three >> north >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> > youth and >>> a >>>>>> 17-year-old >>>> boy's killing >> in >>>>>> police > action. Over 60 >>>>> >>> people, >>>>>> including >> women >>>>>> >>>> and > children, have >>>>>> died in police >>> firing on >>>>> >> protesters >>>>>> > since >>>> then. >>>>>> >>>>>> State >>>>>> government >>> sources >> said J&K > CM Omar >>>>> Abdullah, >>>> who >>>>>> has called for a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> > proactive approach including the phased >>>> revocation of >>>>> >> > the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> controversial >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces > Act >>>> to >> deal with >>> street >>>>>> >>>>>> protests, has ordered >>>>>> > creation of more >> police >>>> jobs to >>> induct youth from >>>>>> > the >>>>>> troubled >> areas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Meanwhile, in >>>> its >>> ongoing > drive to reach out >>>>>> >> to the >>>>> people, >>>>>> Kashmir > range >>>>>> >>> IGP >>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, >> attended >>>>>> > police-public >>>>> meetings in >>>>>> >>> Ganderbal >>>> and >>>>>> >> Budgam > districts. "At >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police >>>>> >>> > Lines, >>>>>> >>>> >> around 300 people >>>>>> including senior >>>>>> > citizens and >>> sarpanchs >>>> >> participated," >>>>> a >>>>>> police > spokesman >>>>>> said. >>>>>> "Sahai >>> >> assured the >>>> people that > police will >>>>> adopt >>>>>> maximum >>> >> restraint >>>>>> >>>>>> while > dealing >>>> with law and order >>> >> situations." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> > _________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> reader-list: an > open >>>> >> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the >>>>>> city. >>>>>> >>> > Critiques & >>>> >> Collaborations >>>>>> To >>>>>> subscribe: send an email > to >>>> >>> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>>> with subscribe >>>>>> in > the subject >>>> >>> >> header. >>>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>>> List >> > archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> > _________________________________________ >>>> >> reader-list: an > open >>>> >>> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the city. >>>> >> Critiques > & Collaborations >>>> >>> To >>>> subscribe: send an >>>>>> email to >> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>>> in the subject >>>>>> >> > header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List >> > archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open >>> >> > discussion >>>> list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & > Collaborations >>>> >> To >>> subscribe: send >>>> an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >> subscribe >>> in the subject >>>> > header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List > archive: >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> > __________________________ >>>> _______________ >>> reader-list: an > open >>> >> discussion list on media and the >>>> city. >>> Critiques & > Collaborations >>> >> To >>> subscribe: send an email to >>>> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in >>> the subject header. >>> > To >>>> unsubscribe: >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List > archive: >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> >> > ______________________ >>> ___________________ >> reader-list: an open >> > discussion list on media and the >>> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > To >> subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To >>> unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open > discussion >> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To > subscribe: send >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe > in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > __________________________ >> _______________ > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- > http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & > Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 09:44:48 2010 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 09:44:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: PUDR invitation to Ramanathan lecture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > People’s Union for Democratic Rights > > (PUDR) > > > > invites you to > > > > *the annual Ramanatham Meeting* > > > > on > > > > *Unorganised Workers, Rights and Struggles* > > > > > > *Speakers* > > Kamala Sankaran > > Prabhu Mohapatra > > > > > > Date: Saturday, 11 September 2010 > > Time: 5.30 to 8.30 pm. > > Venue: Gandhi Peace Foundation (near ITO) > > > > ------------------------------ > From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Wed Sep 8 10:55:05 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 22:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Book Reviews on The Story of Kashmir and A Mission in Kashmir. Message-ID: <790697.44356.qm@web114714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> For your critical comments: In Search of a Future: The Story of Kashmir.By David Devadas. New Delhi: Penguin Books India, 2007. Pp. 400. A Mission in Kashmir. By Andrew Whitehead.New York: Penguin, 2008. Pp. 304. Book Review by Gowhar Fazili (1) Both Devadas and Whitehead engage in social and oral history, drawing from first-hand accounts, personal letters, myths and stories as told over generations; both authors are journalists. The former tries to examine Kashmir’s contemporary history in light of the events and experiences of the past century as related to the author by various individuals directly involved in their making, or commenting on the basis of what they have witnessed or heard. The latter focuses on research and the retelling of a single event in 1947, an attack on a Jesuit Mission in Baramulla, and with reference to this event, attempts to reconstruct the history of Kashmir. Devadas builds his arguments around the essential nature of Kashmiris which according to him has, due to a series of collective experiences over the centuries, turned negative, hostile, suspicious, shortsighted, individualistic and essentially selfish. This assessment is not original since a train of colonial writers like Lawrence and Biscoe essentialized the Kashmiri character in a similar vein. It appears through Devadas’s writing that Kashmir continues to be the way it is largely because of the Kashmiris’ “innate” nature. According to him, it is not extraordinary political circumstances that have primarily shaped Kashmiri mentality, but the converse, that the Kashmiri mentality has shaped their circumstances. In short, he blames Kashmiris for the tragic state of affairs they find themselves trapped in. Devadas ascribes to Kashmiris “corruption”, “venality”, “opportunism” (p 212) as if these were their essential characteristics. He refers to the Bakshi period and the corruption and loot that were promoted in his era, as if had more of that followed, Kashmiris (being essentially corrupt) would have readily accepted any political dispensation that was offered (p 240). It is well known that corruption in Kashmir was deliberately promoted as a tactic by the Indian establishment in the Bakshi era in order to buy over people, while Sheikh Abdullah was put in prison. Surely, all societies have corruptible people amongst them, and Kashmir is in no way unique in this regard. Further, according to Devadas, the urgency for resolving the “Kashmir problem” does not stem from the need to end the suffering of the Kashmiri population itself, but in the interest of the rest of the world, especially the subcontinent; and all this can and has to be achieved through the initiatives of the Kashmiri community. Though right from the preface he presents Kashmiris as weak of character, yet the burden of “healing” the subcontinent is upon them! India and Pakistan cannot help because “the dispute goes to the heart of their respective notions of nationhood.” (p xvi) And in his own words, “I hope Kashmir will turn the corner before the subcontinent descends into violent strife—so that it might lead the rest of South Asia back to a moral anchor.” (p xvi) Devadas fictionalizes his characters and imagines what they must have felt. One wonders whether people like “Ali Sheikh” are real or a fictional device. The basis for much of this appears to be pure imagination and conjecture. While the book at times appears to be a historical account, it takes flight into fiction without demarcation. There is an indiscernible mix of hearsay and factual information. Devadas’s commentary comes across more as a moral judgment or a sermon on history, rather than an attempt to understand people, their actions and their relationship with power. His chief source seems to be drawing-room conversations and popular stereotypes. He fails to reflect on why negative self-imaging is a phenomenon common to all colonized people, including Kashmiris. Devadas tries to construct the ‘Kashmiri mind’ out of his understanding of the experiences of a few young men who became militants in Kashmir around 1987. In this process he infantilizes Kashmir, not unlike the state-owned media and its sermonizing propaganda. He makes light of the mass sentiment and aspiration for freedom and the desire for a life with dignity, and conflates all this with the character of much-maligned militants. In this he seems to have bought heavily into the views of intelligence agents and surrendered militants and their confessions. Devadas also accepts oriental myths and colonial stereotypes about the Kashmiri character uncritically and perpetuates them along with the added evidence stumbled upon in the process of research. One notices a shoddy use of local language and expressions. One wonders if it is simple carelessness or an attitude he thinks he can afford. To quote a few examples, on p 110 an expression ‘Pakistan nu ghazi aayo’ means nothing in Kashmiri (or perhaps any language!). Word ‘Bhangi’ (p 153) is not in use in Kashmir; he might have jotted down a literal translation of word ‘Watul’ and not cared to cross check. ‘Bakr Id’ (p 174) it would make no sense in Kashmiri. ‘Goat’ for Bakré is too literal; the idea of Sher- Bakré division has a cultural resonance that cannot be simply translated into goat! ‘Najad’ (p 309) which means absolutely nothing, may be Najaat, which is deliverance. Melhanson probably means Mallinson (p 123). There are stray references to the persistence of caste hierarchy in Kashmir. Since this is not a phenomenon unique to Kashmir, one wonders why he presents it as something peculiar to this place. He makes too much of the pride Kashmiri people have for themselves, like all communities tend to do. For Kashmiris, simply holding on to what remnants of pride remain, may be important and also justifiable, given the humiliation they are subject to on a daily basis. There is a passing reference to economic reasons for the rise of militancy, for example, Sopore, “…that pocket where land reforms had been rolled back so that apples could turn it into Little London became the bedrock of pro-Pakistan militancy and of Puritanism.” (p 240) This is a sweeping claim that remains unsubstantiated. “Abdullah’s own determination to lead an independent nation was probably as much an individual aspiration as a collective one on behalf of his people.” (p 75) This is probably true of all leaders of freedom struggles, so why single him out? There is a legitimate need for Kashmiris to engage in self-reflexive writing on themselves and their history, and this book might provoke such an exercise. Otherwise carelessly-written books like that of Devadas’s are dangerous because of their potential to spread misunderstanding, especially on an issue which is already quite misunderstood. A Mission in Kashmir is an attempt at a new way of writing on Kashmir. Andrew Whitehead focuses on the Jesuit Mission in Baramulla and the role of India, Pakistan and Pathan Raiders in the war they fought over Kashmir. Towards the end, he examines issues of myth-making around the event, and how these have shaped latter-day politics in Kashmir. Whitehead’s is the better book of the two, since it critically examines sources and tries to use new discoveries to contest mainstream ideas on the accession, the raiders and the role of Pakistani regulars in the debacle. A mission in Kashmir is more conscious of varying interests and objectives of the reporters. Especially remarkable is the sensitivity reflected in the later part of the book, about the absence of Kashmiri Muslim voices in the representation of events in Kashmir; and about how the Mission in Baramulla has received focus while the experiences of Kashmiris who underwent similar ordeals are largely missing from history. It is true of both fictional and factual reporting. The authors, as well as those considered worthy of being written about are mostly non Kashmiris’. “It is perhaps an irony that even when talking of terror in Kashmir, those Kashmiris who suffered have had to relinquish centre stage to outsiders.” (P 232) He further points out that no remarkable book on Kashmir by a Muslim Kashmiri yet exists. (The Recent book by Basharat Peer,‘Curfewed Night’, an experiential account on early 90’s by a Kashmiri Muslim, is a welcome step in this direction.) Whitehead tries his best to establish the authenticity of various versions of the event. This has meant listening to multiple voices, though the voices presented here emanate mainly from the Europeans and prominent figures from India and Pakistan. Kashmiri suffering appears to be on the fringes of the larger battle and what is central to the book— the suffering of the missionaries. Kashmiris only appear now and then as icons like Maqbool Sherwani or Sheikh Abdullah. Whitehead’s tale, essentially about the Mission in the wake of the Kabaili raid, does justice to that event; its attempt to try to understand Kashmir through this event, however, is half-hearted. He might have done better by including more narratives from ordinary local people whose lives were permanently shaped by the circumstances that spiraled out of control. He examines the process of myth-making and how myths are deployed for various causes. The myth around the attack on the Mission and how different sources relate it differently, the myth of Maqbool Sherwani and the political uses it was put to, the myths around the signing of the document of accession, provide good examples and ample material for him to analyze. Whitehead considers three fictional works about the mission/raid, and how they used sources: H.E. Bates’ The Scarlet Sword, Mulk Raj Anand’s Death of A Hero and Alan Moorhead’s The Rage of the Vulture. Though he examines writings of various journalists involved and their personal projects, one remark quoting the official Indian media is noteworthy: “The four foreign survivors had ‘lifted the veil on a brutal tragedy which invaders from Pakistan perpetuated upon an innocent and peace-loving people’. The ‘peace-loving people’ themselves, the people of Kashmir, were not given a voice. A spectacle was made out of imprisoned Kabailis who were paraded in the streets of Srinagar to make an impression, the idea being to reinforce an image. It is not unlike the way prisoners are paraded in the visual media even today. He quotes one of his sources, “Those people, they were really looking like brutes—very ferocious looking. They were also very defiant.” (P 186-187) The spectacle has created a lasting impression of raiders as brutes and by association Pakistan, the place where they came from, as equally brutal. There are many anecdotes of human interest apart from the main concerns of the book, like some priests seeking to convert asylum seekers at the mission during the raid; cordiality between a Pathan raider and one of the fathers at the mission; the missionaries’ bias against Kashmiris and how it altered during the conflict after locals helped them survive through the raid; Sikh regiments clash with Kashmiri volunteers from National Conference and its immediate repercussion; all these make the book an interesting read. A sentence from the last paragraph sums up the book, “Social history is about people. So too is good reporting. And the most obvious lasting answer to the Kashmir dispute is to heed the voices of the people of Kashmir, and to allow them to decide their own destiny.” Perhaps Whitehead’s narrative will open up possibilities for paying more heed to Kashmiri voices through the study of other institutions and events in Kashmir in which Kashmiris are central, and reopen questions assumed to be settled, through comparable scholarship. 1. Published earlier in Interventions Vol. 11(1) 2009 From aliens at dataone.in Wed Sep 8 11:39:45 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:39:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: <16F7703A93574DF1A611FD8FB87ABD88@tara> References: <127491.27543.qm@web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <16F7703A93574DF1A611FD8FB87ABD88@tara> Message-ID: <001c01cb4f1c$717a4c30$546ee490$@in> YES well said Taraprakash -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of TaraPrakash Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:28 AM To: gowhar fazli; reader-list at sarai.net Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions My problem with the heading is that few thousand lumpins and few hundred terrorists are assumed to be the whole Kashmir. As some news items forwarded by Sonia suggest, people want normalcy to return. People voted whole heartedly for a government and police is part of the government. The government let them down, so people's anger is understandable. If people get paid for stone pelting and sloganeering, they will do that. If people get paid for stopping the stone pelters, they will do that too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gowhar fazli" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 4:28 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions >> I don't like the heading "Why Kashmir >> defies solutions". >> >> It is in these moments that the real desperation and loss >> of self of Kashmiris as a people becomes evident. For >> livelihood they have to stoop before the same institutions >> that torment them or that they abhor for obvious reasons. >> This contradiction that runs through their very selves, >> prevents people from acquiring a full blown human-hood. >> >> There should be no guilt or indignity associated with >> acquiring of livelihood through legitimate means, but this >> is the case one way or the other, for most people in >> Kashmir. The boundaries between legitimate and illegitimate >> are dizzyingly fuzzy because of the manner in which the >> selves are split. >> >> If not for any other but for the indignities involved in >> the status quo that Kashmir issue should be resolved for >> good. >> >> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, SJabbar >> wrote: >> >> > From: SJabbar >> > Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies solutions >> > To: "Sarai" >> > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 10:19 AM >> > Printed from >> > >> > Khaki enemy? 60,000 Kashmiris apply for 3,000 police >> jobs >> > M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep 7, 2010, 01.30am IST >> > SRINAGAR: Despite reports of desertions in its ranks >> and >> > threats of social >> > boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big draw for >> young >> > job hunters in >> > employment-starved Kashmir. Ignoring calls by >> hardliners to >> > shun the khaki >> > force, nearly 60,000 men applied for less than 3,000 >> jobs >> > in J&K police -- >> > about 200 applicants for one constable's post. >> > >> > The applications piled up over the last few months, >> about >> > the time when the >> > situation in the Valley appeared to be spinning out >> of >> > control with the cops >> > particularly being at the receiving end of public >> wrath. >> > >> > J&K police DG Kuldeep Khoda said the department >> has >> > received 58,975 >> > applications, against 2,786 vacancies across the >> Valley. >> > "The response from >> > (the worst-hit) Srinagar and Budgam districts was even >> more >> > heartening," he >> > said. "We've received 2,860 applications, against 529 >> posts >> > in Srinagar >> > district, while 8053 against 283 in Budgam," he said. >> > >> > Lack of jobs has been a big spur for the protests >> that >> > brought thousands of >> > young educated men on to the streets. Official >> estimates of >> > the number of >> > unemployed in the Valley stands at 3 lakhs. >> > >> > Khoda told reporters the department held a >> recruitment >> > rally in Baramulla >> > district in July and was overwhelmed with the >> response. >> > "Over 8,000 people >> > turned up for 412 posts despite turmoil in the >> district," >> > he said, and added >> > that even stone-pelters attended the rally. He said >> the >> > department was >> > mulling more on-the-spot recruitment drives across >> the >> > Valley, particularly >> > in Srinagar's downtown area to end the unrest. >> > >> > The top cop rubbished reports on desertions and >> > insubordination. He claimed >> > no police personnel had quit since mid-June when >> Kashmir >> > erupted in anger >> > against the alleged staged encounter of three north >> Kashmir >> > youth and a >> > 17-year-old boy's killing in police action. Over 60 >> people, >> > including women >> > and children, have died in police firing on >> protesters >> > since then. >> > >> > State government sources said J&K CM Omar >> Abdullah, who >> > has called for a >> > proactive approach including the phased revocation of >> the >> > controversial >> > Armed Forces Special Forces Act to deal with street >> > protests, has ordered >> > creation of more police jobs to induct youth from the >> > troubled areas. >> > >> > Meanwhile, in its ongoing drive to reach out to the >> people, >> > Kashmir range >> > IGP Kashmir, S M Sahai, attended police-public >> meetings in >> > Ganderbal and >> > Budgam districts. "At Ganderbal District Police >> Lines, >> > around 300 people >> > including senior citizens and sarpanchs participated," >> a >> > police spokesman >> > said. "Sahai assured the people that police will >> adopt >> > maximum restraint >> > while dealing with law and order situations." >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Sep 8 13:24:54 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:24:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <862B50EB-0716-43D4-A404-2F6E5656395B@sarai.net> dear Sonia, To ask questions and to judge are very different. No? I was just curious if the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the posting about lines of young men joining the police could be stretched to other moments in near times. Somehow from your response it seems it cannot be. You somehow accept one as given and the other as strange. Still not sure how you make that distinction. warmly jeebesh On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more >> complicated and illegible > than the judgement of the spectator. > ' > > So the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question? Then why > do you > question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from > the ICS? > Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by > telling you > he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a copy > of the > challan which you thought due to you. > > > > > On 07/09/10 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > >> The so called iron frame of indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > officers. >> It was more than getting on with life :) > > On Kashmir i understand very little >> to be able to comment. But some > comments seem to mock the people who are >> trying to articulate > something substantial. A little caution about >> interpreting quickly. > The maxim of the actors are always far more >> complicated and illegible > than the judgement of the spectator. > > On >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> Did they? Or did they do what most >> people do, make their peace with >> the new >> dispensation and get on with >> life. >> >> The point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 >> >> young men >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people >> are >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K >> >> Police as >> an abhorrent force? Can it be that they are the relatives of men >> >> who are >> already in the JKP? Can it be that they don't subscribe to >> azadi? >> And how >> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are in >> the JKP and >> JAKLI see >> their kin? >> >> Another puzzling matter: we speak >> of the AFSPA and its revocation >> but the >> JKP is not protected by the Act. >> And one more thing: the army, that >> has >> been responsible for the worst >> human rights abuses in the last 2 >> decades is >> not targeted by the >> stone-pelters. They continue their work of >> patrolling >> and cordon & >> search operations as if they live on another planet. >> The target >> is >> always the JKP. >> >> >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, "Jeebesh" >> wrote: >> >>> agreed. but how come they all became unquestionable nationalists >> >>> after >>> >> 1947? >> >> On 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: >> >>> You're >> right Jeebesh, and >>> most people who were recruited were >>> absolutely >>> >> loyal to the British >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. >>> And >> why >>> just speak of the >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply >> divided >>> and very >>> few at the >>> time articulated it as a 'war for >> independence.' It >>> would be >>> foolish to >>> say that those who served the >> British Empire were closet >>> nationalists forced >>> into furthering their >> careers by joining the >>> army or >>> ICS. >>> >>> >>> On >>> 07/09/10 5:22 PM, >> "Jeebesh" wrote: >>> >>>> recruitment in >>> indian >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in >>> the >>>> british army >>> was >> very high. what did this say about the aspiration >>> and lives >>>> being >> led >>> at that time in the sub continent. do we even >>> count that number >>>> >> today in >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub >>> continent? >>> >>> On >> 07-Sep-10, at >>>> 2:10 >>> PM, SJabbar wrote: >>> >>>> But Gowhar, what happens >> when a man who hitherto >>>> >>> abhors an >>>> institution joins >>>> it? What >> happens to that extreme emotion >>>> >>> when the line is crossed, >>>> when >> the >>>> uniform is donned, when the >>> 'danda' >>>> drops firmly into his >> hands? >>>> By your logic all those who joined >>> the force >>>> post-1990 once >> abhorred >>>> the >>>> institution and now have become >>> the >>>> oppressors. >> And those who pelt >>>> stones >>>> at the oppressors now want >>> to >>>> join >> the same hated institution only >>>> to become >>>> future oppressors? >>> >> Not >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may >>>> understand this, but >> I >>> have to >>>> tell you, it's left me totally >>>> perplexed. >>>> >>>> >>>> On >> 07/09/10 >>> 1:58 PM, >>>> "gowhar fazli" >> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I don't >>> like the heading >>>> "Why Kashmir >>>>> defies >> solutions". >>>>> >>>>> It is in >>>>>> >>> these moments that the >>>> real >> desperation and loss >>>>> of self of Kashmiris >>> as a >>>>>> people >> becomes >>>> evident. For >>>>> livelihood they have to stoop >>> before the >> same >>>>>> >>>> institutions >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor >>> for >> obvious >>>> reasons. >>>>> >>>>>> This contradiction that runs through their >>> >> very selves, >>>>> >>>> prevents people >>>>>> from acquiring a full blown >>> >> human-hood. >>>>> >>>>> There should >>>> be no guilt or >>>>>> indignity >> associated >>> with >>>>> acquiring of livelihood >>>> through legitimate >> means, >>>>>> but >>> this >>>>> is the case one way or the other, >>>> for most >> people in >>>>> >>> Kashmir. >>>>>> The boundaries between legitimate and >>>> >> illegitimate >>>>> are >>> dizzyingly fuzzy >>>>>> because of the manner in which >> the >>>>> >>>> selves are >>> split. >>>>> >>>>> If not for any >>>>>> other but for >> the indignities >>>> involved >>> in >>>>> the status quo that Kashmir >> issue >>>>>> should be resolved for >>>>> >>>> >>> good. >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, >> 9/7/10, SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >> From: SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: >>>> >>> >> [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>>>> solutions >>>>>> To: "Sarai" >>>> >>> >> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>>>> September 7, 2010, 10:19 >>> >> AM >>>>>> >>>> Printed from >>>>>> >>>>>> Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>>>> Kashmiris >> apply for >>> 3,000 >>>> police >>>>> jobs >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep >> 7, >>>>>> 2010, 01.30am >>> IST >>>>>> >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of >> desertions in its ranks >>>>> >>>>>> >>> and >>>>>> threats of >>>> social >>>>>> >> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big >>> draw >>>>>> for >>>>> >> young >>>>>> >>>> job hunters in >>>>>> employment-starved >>> Kashmir. Ignoring >> calls >>>>>> by >>>>> >>>> hardliners to >>>>>> shun the khaki >>>>>> >>> force, >> nearly 60,000 men applied >>>>>> for >>>> less than 3,000 >>>>> jobs >>>>>> in >>> >> J&K police -- >>>>>> about 200 applicants for >>>>>> >>>> one constable's >>> >> post. >>>>>> >>>>>> The applications piled up over the last few >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> months, >>>>> about >>>>>> the time when the >>>>>> situation in the Valley >>> >> appeared >>>> to >>>>>> be spinning out >>>>> of >>>>>> control with the >> cops >>>>>> >>> particularly being >>>> at the >>>>>> receiving end of public >>>>> >> wrath. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> J&K police DG Kuldeep >>>> Khoda said >>>>>> the >> department >>>>> has >>>>>> received >>> 58,975 >>>>>> applications, >>>> against >> 2,786 >>>>>> vacancies across the >>>>> >>> Valley. >>>>>> "The response >> from >>>>>> >>>> (the worst-hit) >>>>>> Srinagar and >>> Budgam districts was >> even >>>>> more >>>>>> >>>> heartening," he >>>>>> said. >>>>>> >>> "We've received >> 2,860 applications, against >>>> 529 >>>>> posts >>>>>> in >>> >> Srinagar >>>>>> >>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >>>> Budgam," he >>> >> said. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lack of jobs >>>>>> has been a big spur for the >>>> >> protests >>>>> >>> that >>>>>> brought thousands of >>>>>> >>>>>> young educated >> men on to the >>>> >>> streets. Official >>>>> estimates of >>>>>> the >> number >>>>>> of >>>>>> unemployed in >>> the >>>> Valley stands at 3 >> lakhs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Khoda told >>>>>> reporters the >>> department held >>>> >> a >>>>> recruitment >>>>>> rally in Baramulla >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> district in July >> and was >>>> overwhelmed with the >>>>> response. >>>>>> "Over >>> 8,000 >>>>>> >> people >>>>>> turned up for >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>>>> >>> >> district," >>>>>> he >>>>>> said, and added >>>>>> >>>> that even stone-pelters >>> >> attended the rally. He said >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> department >>>> was >>>>>> >> mulling >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>>>> across >>>>> the >>>>>> >>>> >> Valley, >>> particularly >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end >>>>>> >> the >>>> >>> unrest. >>>>>> >>>>>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions >> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> insubordination. He claimed >>>>>> no police personnel >> had quit since >>>> >>> mid-June >>>>>> when >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> erupted in >> anger >>>>>> against the >>> alleged >>>> staged encounter >>>>>> of three >> north >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> youth and >>> a >>>>>> 17-year-old >>>> boy's killing >> in >>>>>> police action. Over 60 >>>>> >>> people, >>>>>> including >> women >>>>>> >>>> and children, have >>>>>> died in police >>> firing on >>>>> >> protesters >>>>>> since >>>> then. >>>>>> >>>>>> State >>>>>> government >>> sources >> said J&K CM Omar >>>>> Abdullah, >>>> who >>>>>> has called for a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> proactive approach including the phased >>>> revocation of >>>>> >> the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> controversial >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act >>>> to >> deal with >>> street >>>>>> >>>>>> protests, has ordered >>>>>> creation of more >> police >>>> jobs to >>> induct youth from >>>>>> the >>>>>> troubled >> areas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Meanwhile, in >>>> its >>> ongoing drive to reach out >>>>>> >> to the >>>>> people, >>>>>> Kashmir range >>>>>> >>> IGP >>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, >> attended >>>>>> police-public >>>>> meetings in >>>>>> >>> Ganderbal >>>> and >>>>>> >> Budgam districts. "At >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police >>>>> >>> Lines, >>>>>> >>>> >> around 300 people >>>>>> including senior >>>>>> citizens and >>> sarpanchs >>>> >> participated," >>>>> a >>>>>> police spokesman >>>>>> said. >>>>>> "Sahai >>> >> assured the >>>> people that police will >>>>> adopt >>>>>> maximum >>> >> restraint >>>>>> >>>>>> while dealing >>>> with law and order >>> >> situations." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> _________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> reader-list: an open >>>> >> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the >>>>>> city. >>>>>> >>> Critiques & >>>> >> Collaborations >>>>>> To >>>>>> subscribe: send an email to >>>> >>> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>>> with subscribe >>>>>> in the subject >>>> >>> >> header. >>>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>>> List >> archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> >> reader-list: an open >>>> >>> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the city. >>>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >>> To >>>> subscribe: send an >>>>>> email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>>> in the subject >>>>>> >> header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List >> archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open >>> >> discussion >>>> list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >> To >>> subscribe: send >>>> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >> subscribe >>> in the subject >>>> header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> __________________________ >>>> _______________ >>> reader-list: an open >>> >> discussion list on media and the >>>> city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To >>> subscribe: send an email to >>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in >>> the subject header. >>> To >>>> unsubscribe: >>> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>>> >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> >> ______________________ >>> ___________________ >> reader-list: an open >> discussion list on media and the >>> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To >> subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To >>> unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion >> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > __________________________ >> _______________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Sep 8 14:01:08 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:01:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Delhi in 24 hours Message-ID: <50ABCB8F-B286-4E55-9CEA-CCA983BEBB62@sarai.net> Dear Friends, Following incessant rains in the river Yamuna catchment, it may be noted that the following releases have taken place in the river since early morning today (8.9.10) at the Hathnikund Barrage: 5 am - 62,000 cusec 6 am - 92,000 cusec (WYC and EYC were closed) 7 am - 1,86,000 cusec 8 am - 3,30,000 cusec 9 am - 4,03,000 cusec 10 am - 4,64,000 cusec 11 am - 5,19,000 cusec This water shall reach Delhi by tomorrow noon as the water will not take more than 24 - 28 hrs to reach Delhi in view of the river already being in spate. The implication of this level (5 lac cusec plus) of release are the following: a) The danger level shall cross the 206 m mark at Old Railway bridge and even reach catastrophic 207 m. b) Delhi can hope to see the worst floods since 1995 in the city. The above is of course subject to vast areas upstream of Delhi in Haryana not getting badly flooded. Delhiites can only keep their fingers crossed and hope for the best. manoj misra Convener Yamuna Jiye Abhiyan (yamunajiye at gmail.com) From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Sep 8 14:02:42 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:02:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chernobyl death toll: 985,000, mostly from cancer Message-ID: <0426C1CF-5CDD-402C-8479-97887AC4281A@sarai.net> Since we are now close to a flourishing energy economy driven by nuclear energy in India, it maybe be worthwhile to consider this essay. warmly jeebesh New Book Concludes: Chernobyl death toll: 985,000, mostly from cancer Karl Grossman This past April 26th marked the 24th anniversary of the Chernobyl nuclear plant accident. It came as the nuclear industry and pro-nuclear government officials in the United States and other nations were trying to "revive" nuclear power. And it followed the publication of a book, the most comprehensive study ever made, on the impacts of the Chernobyl disaster. Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment was published by the New York Academy of Sciences. It is authored by three noted scientists: Russian biologist Dr. Alexey Yablokov, former environmental advisor to the Russian president; Dr. Alexey Nesterenko, a biologist and ecologist in Belarus; and Dr.Vassili Nesterenko, a physicist and at the time of the accident director of the Institute of Nuclear Energy of the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus. Its editor is Dr. Janette Sherman, a physician and toxicologist long-involved in studying the health impacts of radioactivity. The book is solidly based--on health data, radiological surveys and scientific reports--some 5,000 in all. It concludes that based on records now available, some 985,000 people died, mainly of cancer, as a result of theChernobyl accident. That is between when the accident occurred in 1986 and 2004. More deaths, it projects, will follow. The book explodes the claim of the International Atomic Energy Agency--still on its website that the expected death toll from the Chernobyl accident will be 4,000. The IAEA, the new book shows, is underestimating, to the extreme, the casualties of Chernobyl. Alice Slater, representative in New York of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, comments: "The tragic news uncovered by the comprehensive new research that almost one million people died in the toxic aftermath of Chernobyl should be a wake-up call to people all over the world to petition their governments to put a halt to the current industry-driven "nuclear renaissance.' Aided by a corrupt IAEA, the world has been subjected to a massive cover-up and deception about the true damages caused by Chernobyl." Further worsening the situation, she said, has been "the collusive agreement between the IAEA and the World Health Organization in which the WHO is precluded from publishing any research on radiation effects without consultation with the IAEA." WHO, the public health arm of the UN, has supported the IAEA's claim that 4,000 will die as a result of the accident. "How fortunate," said Ms. Slater, "that independent scientists have now revealed the horrific costs of the Chernobyl accident." The book also scores the position of the IAEA, set up through the UN in 1957 "to accelerate and enlarge the contribution of atomic energy," and its 1959 agreement with WHO. There is a "need to change," it says, the IAEA-WHO pact. It has muzzled the WHO, providing for the "hiding" from the "public of any information"unwanted" by the nuclear industry. "An important lesson from the Chernobyl experience is that experts and organizations tied to the nuclear industry have dismissed and ignored the consequences of the catastrophe," it states. The book details the spread of radioactive poisons following the explosion of Unit 4 of the Chernobyl nuclear plant on April 26, 1986. These major releases only ended when the fire at the reactor was brought under control in mid-May. Emitted were "hundreds of millions of curies, a quantity hundreds of times larger than the fallout from the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki." The most extensive fall-out occurred in regions closest to the plant--in the Ukraine (the reactor was 60 miles from Kiev in Ukraine), Belarus and Russia. However, there was fallout all over the world as the winds kept changing direction "so the radioactive emissions"covered an enormous territory." The radioactive poisons sent billowing from the plant into the air included Cesium-137, Plutonium, Iodine-131 and Strontium-90. There is a breakdown by country, highlighted by maps, of where the radionuclides fell out. Beyond Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, the countries included Bulgaria, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Poland, Sweden and the United Kingdom. The radiological measurements show that some 10% of Chernobyl poisons "fell on Asia"Huge areas" of eastern Turkey and central China "were highly contaminated," reports the book. Northwestern Japan was impacted, too. Northern Africa was hit with "more than 5% of all Chernobyl releases." The finding of Cesium-137 and both Plutonium-239 and Plutonium-240 "in accumulated Nile River sediment is evidence of significant Chernobyl contamination," it states. "Areas of North America were contaminated from the first, most powerful explosion, which lifted a cloud of radionuclides to a height of more than 10 km. Some 1% of all Chernobyl nuclides," says the book, "fell on North America." The consequences on public health are extensively analyzed. Medical records involving children--the young, their cells more rapidly multiplying, are especially affected by radioactivity--are considered. Before the accident, more than 80% of the children in the territories of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia extensively contaminated by Chernobyl "were healthy," the book reports, based on health data. But "today fewer than 20% are well." There is an examination of genetic impacts with records reflecting an increase in "chromosomal aberrations" wherever there was fallout. This will continue through the "children of irradiated parents for as many as seven generations." So "the genetic consequences of the Chernobyl catastrophe will impact hundreds of millions of people." As to deaths, the list of countries and consequences begins with Belarus. "For the period 1900-2000 cancer mortality in Belarus increased 40%," it states, again based on medical data and illuminated by tables in the book. "The increase was a maximum in the most highly contaminated Gomel Province and lower in the less contaminated Brest and Mogilev provinces." They include childhood cancers, thyroid cancer, leukemia and other cancers. Considering health data of people in all nations impacted by the fallout, the "overall mortality for the period from April 1986 to the end of 2004 from the Chernobyl catastrophe was estimated as 985,000 additional deaths." Further, "the concentrations" of some of the poisons, because they have radioactive half-lives ranging from 20,000 to 200,000 years, "will remain practically the same virtually forever." The book also examines the impact on plants and animals. "Immediately after the catastrophe, the frequency of plant mutations in the contaminated territories increased sharply." There are photographs of some of these plant mutations. "Chernobyl irradiation has caused many structural anomalies and tumorlike changes in many plant species and has led to genetic disorders, sometimes continuing for many years," it says. "Twenty-three years after the catastrophe it is still too early to know if the whole spectrum of plant radiogenic changes has been discerned. We are far from knowing all of the consequences for flora resulting from the catastrophe." As to animals, the book notes "serious increases in morbidity and mortality that bear striking resemblance to changes in the public health of humans--increasing tumor rates, immunodeficiencies, and decreasing life expectancy." In one study it is found that "survival rates of barn swallows in the most contaminated sites near the Chernobyl nuclear power plant are close to zero. In areas of moderate contamination, annual survival is less than 25%." Research is cited into ghastly abnormalities in barn swallows that do hatch: "two heads, two tails." "In 1986," the book states, "the level of irradiation in plants and animals in Western Europe, North America, the Arctic, and eastern Asia were sometimes hundreds and even thousands of times above acceptable norms." In its final chapter, the book declares that the explosion of the Chernobyl nuclear plant "was the worst technogenic accident in history." And it examines "obstacles" to the reporting of the true consequences of Chernobyl with a special focus on "organizations associated with the nuclear industry" that "protect the industry first--not the public." Here, the IAEA and WHO are charged. The book ends by quoting U.S. President John F. Kennedy's call in 1963 for an end of atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons."The Chernobyl catastrophe," it declares, "demonstrates that the nuclear industry's willingness to risk the health of humanity and our environment with nuclear power plants will result, not only theoretically, but practically, in the same level of hazard as nuclear weapons." Dr. Sherman, speaking of the IAEA's and WHO's dealing with the impacts of Chernobyl, commented: "It's like Dracula guarding the blood bank." The 1959 agreement under which WHO "is not to be independent of the IAEA" but must clear any information it obtains on issues involving radioactivity with the IAEA has put "the two in bed together." Of her reflections on 14 months editing the book, she said: "Every single system that was studied--whether human or wolves or livestock or fish or trees or mushrooms or bacteria--all were changed, some of them irreversibly. The scope of the damage is stunning." In his foreword, Dr. Dimitro Grodzinsky, chairman of the Ukranian National Commission on Radiation Protection, writes about how "apologists of nuclear power" sought to hide the real impacts of the Chernobyl disaster from the time when the accident occurred. The book "provides the largest and most complete collection of data concerning the negative consequences of Chernobyl on the health of people and the environment...The main conclusion of the book is that it is impossible and wrong "to forget Chernobyl.'" In the record of Big Lies, the claim of the IAEA-WHO that "only" 4,000 people will die as a result of the Chernobyl catastrophe is among the biggest. The Chernobyl accident is, as the new book documents, an ongoing global catastrophe. And it is a clear call for no new nuclear power plants to be built and for the closing of the dangerous atomic machines now running--and a switch to safe energy technologies, now available, led by solar and wind energy, that will not leave nearly a million people dead from one disaster. -- Peace Is Doable _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com; www.riverhealthindex.blogspot.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 15:32:21 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:32:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: <862B50EB-0716-43D4-A404-2F6E5656395B@sarai.net> Message-ID: Not at all. Please see my reply to Inder Salim. On 08/09/10 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > dear Sonia, To ask questions and to judge are very different. No? I was just > curious if the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the posting about > lines of young men joining the police could be stretched to other moments in > near times. Somehow from your response it seems it cannot be. You somehow > accept one as given and the other as strange. Still not sure how you make > that distinction. warmly jeebesh On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more >> > complicated and illegible > than the judgement of the spectator. > ' > > So > the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question? Then why > do you > > question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from > the > ICS? > Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by > > telling you > he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a > copy > of the > challan which you thought due to you. > > > > > On 07/09/10 > 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > >> The so called iron frame of > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > officers. >> It was more than getting > on with life :) > > On Kashmir i understand very little >> to be able to > comment. But some > comments seem to mock the people who are >> trying to > articulate > something substantial. A little caution about >> interpreting > quickly. > The maxim of the actors are always far more >> complicated and > illegible > than the judgement of the spectator. > > On >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 > PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> Did they? Or did they do what most >> people do, make > their peace with >> the new >> dispensation and get on with >> life. >> >> The > point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 >> >> young > men >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people >> > are >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K >> >> > Police as >> an abhorrent force? Can it be that they are the relatives of > men >> >> who are >> already in the JKP? Can it be that they don't subscribe > to >> azadi? >> And how >> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are > in >> the JKP and >> JAKLI see >> their kin? >> >> Another puzzling matter: > we speak >> of the AFSPA and its revocation >> but the >> JKP is not protected > by the Act. >> And one more thing: the army, that >> has >> been responsible > for the worst >> human rights abuses in the last 2 >> decades is >> not > targeted by the >> stone-pelters. They continue their work of >> > patrolling >> and cordon & >> search operations as if they live on another > planet. >> The target >> is >> always the JKP. >> >> >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, > "Jeebesh" >> wrote: >> >>> agreed. but how come they all > became unquestionable nationalists >> >>> after >>> >> 1947? >> >> On > 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: >> >>> You're >> right Jeebesh, and >>> > most people who were recruited were >>> absolutely >>> >> loyal to the > British >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. >>> And >> why >>> > just speak of the >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply >> divided >>> > and very >>> few at the >>> time articulated it as a 'war for >> > independence.' It >>> would be >>> foolish to >>> say that those who served > the >> British Empire were closet >>> nationalists forced >>> into furthering > their >> careers by joining the >>> army or >>> ICS. >>> >>> >>> On >>> > 07/09/10 5:22 PM, >> "Jeebesh" wrote: >>> >>>> recruitment > in >>> indian >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in >>> the >>>> > british army >>> was >> very high. what did this say about the aspiration >>> > and lives >>>> being >> led >>> at that time in the sub continent. do we > even >>> count that number >>>> >> today in >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in > the sub >>> continent? >>> >>> On >> 07-Sep-10, at >>>> 2:10 >>> PM, SJabbar > wrote: >>> >>>> But Gowhar, what happens >> when a man who hitherto >>>> >>> > abhors an >>>> institution joins >>>> it? What >> happens to that extreme > emotion >>>> >>> when the line is crossed, >>>> when >> the >>>> uniform is > donned, when the >>> 'danda' >>>> drops firmly into his >> hands? >>>> By your > logic all those who joined >>> the force >>>> post-1990 once >> abhorred >>>> > the >>>> institution and now have become >>> the >>>> oppressors. >> And those > who pelt >>>> stones >>>> at the oppressors now want >>> to >>>> join >> the > same hated institution only >>>> to become >>>> future oppressors? >>> >> > Not >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may >>>> understand this, > but >> I >>> have to >>>> tell you, it's left me totally >>>> > perplexed. >>>> >>>> >>>> On >> 07/09/10 >>> 1:58 PM, >>>> "gowhar fazli" > >> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I don't >>> like the > heading >>>> "Why Kashmir >>>>> defies >> solutions". >>>>> >>>>> It is > in >>>>>> >>> these moments that the >>>> real >> desperation and loss >>>>> > of self of Kashmiris >>> as a >>>>>> people >> becomes >>>> evident. For >>>>> > livelihood they have to stoop >>> before the >> same >>>>>> >>>> > institutions >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor >>> for >> > obvious >>>> reasons. >>>>> >>>>>> This contradiction that runs through > their >>> >> very selves, >>>>> >>>> prevents people >>>>>> from acquiring a > full blown >>> >> human-hood. >>>>> >>>>> There should >>>> be no guilt > or >>>>>> indignity >> associated >>> with >>>>> acquiring of livelihood >>>> > through legitimate >> means, >>>>>> but >>> this >>>>> is the case one way or > the other, >>>> for most >> people in >>>>> >>> Kashmir. >>>>>> The boundaries > between legitimate and >>>> >> illegitimate >>>>> are >>> dizzyingly > fuzzy >>>>>> because of the manner in which >> the >>>>> >>>> selves are >>> > split. >>>>> >>>>> If not for any >>>>>> other but for >> the indignities >>>> > involved >>> in >>>>> the status quo that Kashmir >> issue >>>>>> should be > resolved for >>>>> >>>> >>> good. >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, >> 9/7/10, > SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >> > From: SJabbar >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: >>>> >>> >> > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >>>>>> solutions >>>>>> To: > "Sarai" >>>> >>> >> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, >>>>>> > September 7, 2010, 10:19 >>> >> AM >>>>>> >>>> Printed from >>>>>> >>>>>> > Khaki enemy? 60,000 >>>>>> Kashmiris >> apply for >>> 3,000 >>>> police >>>>> > jobs >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep >> 7, >>>>>> 2010, 01.30am >>> > IST >>>>>> >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of >> desertions in its > ranks >>>>> >>>>>> >>> and >>>>>> threats of >>>> social >>>>>> >> boycott, > J&K police has emerged as a big >>> draw >>>>>> for >>>>> >> young >>>>>> >>>> > job hunters in >>>>>> employment-starved >>> Kashmir. Ignoring >> calls >>>>>> > by >>>>> >>>> hardliners to >>>>>> shun the khaki >>>>>> >>> force, >> nearly > 60,000 men applied >>>>>> for >>>> less than 3,000 >>>>> jobs >>>>>> in >>> >> > J&K police -- >>>>>> about 200 applicants for >>>>>> >>>> one > constable's >>> >> post. >>>>>> >>>>>> The applications piled up over the last > few >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> months, >>>>> about >>>>>> the time when the >>>>>> > situation in the Valley >>> >> appeared >>>> to >>>>>> be spinning out >>>>> > of >>>>>> control with the >> cops >>>>>> >>> particularly being >>>> at > the >>>>>> receiving end of public >>>>> >> wrath. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> J&K > police DG Kuldeep >>>> Khoda said >>>>>> the >> department >>>>> has >>>>>> > received >>> 58,975 >>>>>> applications, >>>> against >> 2,786 >>>>>> > vacancies across the >>>>> >>> Valley. >>>>>> "The response >> > from >>>>>> >>>> (the worst-hit) >>>>>> Srinagar and >>> Budgam districts > was >> even >>>>> more >>>>>> >>>> heartening," he >>>>>> said. >>>>>> >>> > "We've received >> 2,860 applications, against >>>> 529 >>>>> posts >>>>>> > in >>> >> Srinagar >>>>>> >>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in >>>> > Budgam," he >>> >> said. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lack of jobs >>>>>> has been a big spur > for the >>>> >> protests >>>>> >>> that >>>>>> brought thousands > of >>>>>> >>>>>> young educated >> men on to the >>>> >>> streets. > Official >>>>> estimates of >>>>>> the >> number >>>>>> of >>>>>> unemployed > in >>> the >>>> Valley stands at 3 >> lakhs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Khoda told >>>>>> > reporters the >>> department held >>>> >> a >>>>> recruitment >>>>>> rally in > Baramulla >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> district in July >> and was >>>> overwhelmed with > the >>>>> response. >>>>>> "Over >>> 8,000 >>>>>> >> people >>>>>> turned up > for >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the >>>>> >>> >> district," >>>>>> > he >>>>>> said, and added >>>>>> >>>> that even stone-pelters >>> >> attended > the rally. He said >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> department >>>> was >>>>>> >> > mulling >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives >>>>>> across >>>>> > the >>>>>> >>>> >> Valley, >>> particularly >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > to end >>>>>> >> the >>>> >>> unrest. >>>>>> >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > reports on desertions >> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> insubordination. He > claimed >>>>>> no police personnel >> had quit since >>>> >>> mid-June >>>>>> > when >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> erupted in >> anger >>>>>> against the >>> > alleged >>>> staged encounter >>>>>> of three >> north >>>>> Kashmir >>>>>> > youth and >>> a >>>>>> 17-year-old >>>> boy's killing >> in >>>>>> police > action. Over 60 >>>>> >>> people, >>>>>> including >> women >>>>>> >>>> and > children, have >>>>>> died in police >>> firing on >>>>> >> protesters >>>>>> > since >>>> then. >>>>>> >>>>>> State >>>>>> government >>> sources >> said J&K > CM Omar >>>>> Abdullah, >>>> who >>>>>> has called for a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> > proactive approach including the phased >>>> revocation of >>>>> >> > the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> controversial >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces > Act >>>> to >> deal with >>> street >>>>>> >>>>>> protests, has ordered >>>>>> > creation of more >> police >>>> jobs to >>> induct youth from >>>>>> > the >>>>>> troubled >> areas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Meanwhile, in >>>> its >>> ongoing > drive to reach out >>>>>> >> to the >>>>> people, >>>>>> Kashmir > range >>>>>> >>> IGP >>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, >> attended >>>>>> > police-public >>>>> meetings in >>>>>> >>> Ganderbal >>>> and >>>>>> >> Budgam > districts. "At >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police >>>>> >>> > Lines, >>>>>> >>>> >> around 300 people >>>>>> including senior >>>>>> > citizens and >>> sarpanchs >>>> >> participated," >>>>> a >>>>>> police > spokesman >>>>>> said. >>>>>> "Sahai >>> >> assured the >>>> people that > police will >>>>> adopt >>>>>> maximum >>> >> restraint >>>>>> >>>>>> while > dealing >>>> with law and order >>> >> situations." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> > _________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> reader-list: an > open >>>> >> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the >>>>>> city. >>>>>> >>> > Critiques & >>>> >> Collaborations >>>>>> To >>>>>> subscribe: send an email > to >>>> >>> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>>> with subscribe >>>>>> in > the subject >>>> >>> >> header. >>>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>>> List >> > archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> > _________________________________________ >>>> >> reader-list: an > open >>>> >>> discussion >>>>>> list on media and the city. >>>> >> Critiques > & Collaborations >>>> >>> To >>>> subscribe: send an >>>>>> email to >> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>>> in the subject >>>>>> >> > header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List >> > archive: >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open >>> >> > discussion >>>> list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & > Collaborations >>>> >> To >>> subscribe: send >>>> an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >> subscribe >>> in the subject >>>> > header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List > archive: >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> > __________________________ >>>> _______________ >>> reader-list: an > open >>> >> discussion list on media and the >>>> city. >>> Critiques & > Collaborations >>> >> To >>> subscribe: send an email to >>>> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in >>> the subject header. >>> > To >>>> unsubscribe: >>> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List > archive: >>>> >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> >> > ______________________ >>> ___________________ >> reader-list: an open >> > discussion list on media and the >>> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > To >> subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To >>> unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open > discussion >> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To > subscribe: send >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe > in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > __________________________ >> _______________ > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > ______________________ > ___________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 15:45:25 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 15:45:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: References: <891709.43725.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Taraprakash ji thanks for this comment we all certainly need to be reminded about all those ugly things that threaten to engulf our stock of sensibilites. I have yet to see a sensible person justifiying the chopping of hands tragedy. The list of sad things is long, sadly regards love is On 9/8/10, TaraPrakash wrote: > Yes we are hollow men, we are follow men, > shallow men and mellow men. The artist concerned, and Taslima Nasreen and MF > Hussain are so much luckier than Mr. Joseph a Malayalam teacher whose hands > were chopped off by some terrorists for calling a mad man Mohammed. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Inder Salim" > To: "reader-list" > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 10:50 AM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > > > Dear Kshmendra ji > > > > In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it go to dogs, > > anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to corruption ( CWG), decay > > of food grains etc, > > how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for the safety of > > society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial watchers) , > > > > we should actually close down all the Art institutions in India and > > hand over to religious preachers or some corporate houses which can > > give them some money for buying properties abroad. > > > > we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am wondering even why i > > posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against Hussain paintings, > > but none against poor people who live under bridges. We have no desire > > to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below poverty line > > population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, head piece filled > > with straw." > > > > This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( khajuraho etc ), > > its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all ancient text ), > > but what we love is territory, flag, army and tight disciplined > > bureaucracy. > > > > We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but desire for lean > > blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to liberate ... > > > > Mera Bharat Mahaan > > > > love > > is > > > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Inder > > > > > > It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no > reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake. > > > > > > The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. > > > > > > On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no great > reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable if Nehru > Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did not want to > risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before taking the action > though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. > > > > > > Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron > brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to "saffron". > In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda. > > > > > > If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to > "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step forward and > give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these whines about > "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" and > "decaying food grains" > > > > > > You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things addressed > by your own participation in the political processes or interventions > through RTI and Courts of Law. > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > PS. Do you have anything other than whines? > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > > To: "reader-list" > > > Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM > > > > > > Thanks dear Kshmendra > > > > > > "This is the > > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." > > > > > > > > > well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands > > > of saffron brigade > > > but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our > > > politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like > > > CWG > > > > > > This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing > words > > > it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other > > > sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad > > > > > > best > > > is > > > > > > > > > On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > > > To: "reader-list" > > > > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms > > > > -- > > > > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist > > > > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the > > > > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the > > > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. > > > > > > > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli > > > > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, > > > > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a > > > > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of > > > > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad > > > > taste and created controversy". > > > > > > > > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' > > > > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi > > > > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the > > > > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune > > > > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr > > > > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude > > > > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. > > > > > > > > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to > > > > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said > > > > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent > > > > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. > > > > > > > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any > > > > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru > > > > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings > > > > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to > > > > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on > > > > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and > > > > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and > > > > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do > > > > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public > > > > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. > > > > > > > > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the > > > > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as > > > > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the > > > > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on > > > > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits > > > > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind > > > > Faith' to be controversial." > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded > > > > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. > > > > > > > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - > > > > Mumbai - City - The Times of India > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 16:16:36 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:16:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: <862B50EB-0716-43D4-A404-2F6E5656395B@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Sonia i was casually surfing about agriculture, and found this interesting piece on Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite slippery to compare it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are some historical reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant. People are not happy with rural life, because of number of reasons. The crafts people are not adequately paid for their skills and they naturally shun traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their own systems which sutain... but the jobs are jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as much a carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for the easier paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what must have happened in Kurdistan, where they are just little traditional farming left... the young boys seeking jobs ( police etc )in Kashmir are because we traditionally have never respected the worker, but a govt servant, who manages to find a healthy wealthy and beautiful bride easily in comparision to non govt servant. There is a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans in Kashmir hounded Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left poltics during 40 to 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress policy of india and kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was a leftists ). even if we forget about the histroy how centre humilated Sheikh abdullah time and again... The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it does not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian govt been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have looked down upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner, but that is unlikely. Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West Bengal who experienced some land reforms... rest of india was mute spectator to brilliant changes that were happening under the broad day light.... Shame to Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which actually was meant to gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. That thing still continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, who joined hands in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual nature of kashmir issue. the discussion can go on will come back hugs love is the link below http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml Another sociological study states: "The share of agriculture in gross domestic product sank [from 1962 to 1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even though the number of those employed on the land has only dropped slightly (from 9.7 to 9.0 million). A result of this development was sinking incomes for those working in agriculture and a subsequent migration from the countryside. Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty towns) sprang up." [4] None of this amounts to the formation of a Kurdish bourgeoisie as the backbone of an independent nation-state, but rather signals the integration of the Kurdish people into the Turkish and international working class. The amalgamation of Turkish and Kurdish workers by means of a common socialist programme lay within reach. The perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have opened up favourable prospects for the structural development of the backward mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the Kurdish minority. On the other hand, the project of forming an independent nation-state was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. In the beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic social basis for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who might have hoped to find careers and posts in such a state apparatus. The PKK turned its back on the urban working class. Following its foundation in 1979-80, it organised a few battles and skirmishes with the big landowners, which were followed by the peasants with a certain sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK remained limited as they renounced a radical programme to liberate the peasants, so as not to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big landowners. Their bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), rival Kurdish organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear and terror among ordinary people. Meanwhile, the social democratic government of Bulent Ecevit was deliberately raking up national chauvinism and religious differences in order to gain control of the militant workers movement. The 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred during Ecevit's period in office. He entered a coalition with the Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of the present Welfare Party) and introduced the state recognition of Islamic schools. Once he had engineered clashes in this way, in 1978 Ecevit implemented military rule in the Kurdish provinces. At this time, there were around a million workers and students who were members of organisations claiming to be socialist. On 9/8/10, SJabbar wrote: > Not at all. Please see my reply to Inder Salim. > > > On 08/09/10 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > dear Sonia, > > To ask questions and to judge are very different. No? > > I was just > > curious if the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the > posting about > > lines of young men joining the police could be stretched > to other moments in > > near times. Somehow from your response it seems it > cannot be. You somehow > > accept one as given and the other as strange. > Still not sure how you make > > that distinction. > > warmly > jeebesh > > On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > > > > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being > > > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more > >> > > complicated and illegible > > than the judgement of the spectator. > > ' > > > > So > > the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question? Then why > > do you > > > > question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from > > the > > ICS? > > Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by > > > > telling you > > he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a > > copy > > of the > > challan which you thought due to you. > > > > > > > > > > On 07/09/10 > > 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > >> The so called iron frame of > > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > > officers. > >> It was more than getting > > on with life :) > > > > On Kashmir i understand very little > >> to be able to > > comment. But some > > comments seem to mock the people who are > >> trying to > > articulate > > something substantial. A little caution about > >> interpreting > > quickly. > > The maxim of the actors are always far more > >> complicated and > > illegible > > than the judgement of the spectator. > > > > On > >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 > > PM, SJabbar wrote: > > > >> Did they? Or did they do what most > >> people do, make > > their peace with > >> the new > >> dispensation and get on with > >> life. > >> > >> The > > point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 > >> > >> young > > men > >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people > >> > > are > >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K > >> > >> > > Police as > >> an abhorrent force? Can it be that they are the relatives of > > men > >> > >> who are > >> already in the JKP? Can it be that they don't subscribe > > to > >> azadi? > >> And how > >> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are > > in > >> the JKP and > >> JAKLI see > >> their kin? > >> > >> Another puzzling matter: > > we speak > >> of the AFSPA and its revocation > >> but the > >> JKP is not protected > > by the Act. > >> And one more thing: the army, that > >> has > >> been responsible > > for the worst > >> human rights abuses in the last 2 > >> decades is > >> not > > targeted by the > >> stone-pelters. They continue their work of > >> > > patrolling > >> and cordon & > >> search operations as if they live on another > > planet. > >> The target > >> is > >> always the JKP. > >> > >> > >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, > > "Jeebesh" > >> wrote: > >> > >>> agreed. but how come they all > > became unquestionable nationalists > >> > >>> after > >>> > >> 1947? > >> > >> On > > 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> > >>> You're > >> right Jeebesh, and > >>> > > most people who were recruited were > >>> absolutely > >>> > >> loyal to the > > British > >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. > >>> And > >> why > >>> > > just speak of the > >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply > >> divided > >>> > > and very > >>> few at the > >>> time articulated it as a 'war for > >> > > independence.' It > >>> would be > >>> foolish to > >>> say that those who served > > the > >> British Empire were closet > >>> nationalists forced > >>> into furthering > > their > >> careers by joining the > >>> army or > >>> ICS. > >>> > >>> > >>> On > >>> > > 07/09/10 5:22 PM, > >> "Jeebesh" wrote: > >>> > >>>> recruitment > > in > >>> indian > >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > >>> the > >>>> > > british army > >>> was > >> very high. what did this say about the aspiration > >>> > > and lives > >>>> being > >> led > >>> at that time in the sub continent. do we > > even > >>> count that number > >>>> > >> today in > >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in > > the sub > >>> continent? > >>> > >>> On > >> 07-Sep-10, at > >>>> 2:10 > >>> PM, SJabbar > > wrote: > >>> > >>>> But Gowhar, what happens > >> when a man who hitherto > >>>> > >>> > > abhors an > >>>> institution joins > >>>> it? What > >> happens to that extreme > > emotion > >>>> > >>> when the line is crossed, > >>>> when > >> the > >>>> uniform is > > donned, when the > >>> 'danda' > >>>> drops firmly into his > >> hands? > >>>> By your > > logic all those who joined > >>> the force > >>>> post-1990 once > >> abhorred > >>>> > > the > >>>> institution and now have become > >>> the > >>>> oppressors. > >> And those > > who pelt > >>>> stones > >>>> at the oppressors now want > >>> to > >>>> join > >> the > > same hated institution only > >>>> to become > >>>> future oppressors? > >>> > >> > > Not > >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may > >>>> understand this, > > but > >> I > >>> have to > >>>> tell you, it's left me totally > >>>> > > perplexed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On > >> 07/09/10 > >>> 1:58 PM, > >>>> "gowhar fazli" > > > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>> I don't > >>> like the > > heading > >>>> "Why Kashmir > >>>>> defies > >> solutions". > >>>>> > >>>>> It is > > in > >>>>>> > >>> these moments that the > >>>> real > >> desperation and loss > >>>>> > > of self of Kashmiris > >>> as a > >>>>>> people > >> becomes > >>>> evident. For > >>>>> > > livelihood they have to stoop > >>> before the > >> same > >>>>>> > >>>> > > institutions > >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor > >>> for > >> > > obvious > >>>> reasons. > >>>>> > >>>>>> This contradiction that runs through > > their > >>> > >> very selves, > >>>>> > >>>> prevents people > >>>>>> from acquiring a > > full blown > >>> > >> human-hood. > >>>>> > >>>>> There should > >>>> be no guilt > > or > >>>>>> indignity > >> associated > >>> with > >>>>> acquiring of livelihood > >>>> > > through legitimate > >> means, > >>>>>> but > >>> this > >>>>> is the case one way or > > the other, > >>>> for most > >> people in > >>>>> > >>> Kashmir. > >>>>>> The boundaries > > between legitimate and > >>>> > >> illegitimate > >>>>> are > >>> dizzyingly > > fuzzy > >>>>>> because of the manner in which > >> the > >>>>> > >>>> selves are > >>> > > split. > >>>>> > >>>>> If not for any > >>>>>> other but for > >> the indignities > >>>> > > involved > >>> in > >>>>> the status quo that Kashmir > >> issue > >>>>>> should be > > resolved for > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> good. > >>>>> > >>>>> --- On Tue, > >> 9/7/10, > > SJabbar > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >> > > From: SJabbar > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Subject: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies > >>>>>> solutions > >>>>>> To: > > "Sarai" > >>>> > >>> > >> > >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, > >>>>>> > > September 7, 2010, 10:19 > >>> > >> AM > >>>>>> > >>>> Printed from > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > Khaki enemy? 60,000 > >>>>>> Kashmiris > >> apply for > >>> 3,000 > >>>> police > >>>>> > > jobs > >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep > >> 7, > >>>>>> 2010, 01.30am > >>> > > IST > >>>>>> > >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of > >> desertions in its > > ranks > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> and > >>>>>> threats of > >>>> social > >>>>>> > >> boycott, > > J&K police has emerged as a big > >>> draw > >>>>>> for > >>>>> > >> young > >>>>>> > >>>> > > job hunters in > >>>>>> employment-starved > >>> Kashmir. Ignoring > >> calls > >>>>>> > > by > >>>>> > >>>> hardliners to > >>>>>> shun the khaki > >>>>>> > >>> force, > >> nearly > > 60,000 men applied > >>>>>> for > >>>> less than 3,000 > >>>>> jobs > >>>>>> in > >>> > >> > > J&K police -- > >>>>>> about 200 applicants for > >>>>>> > >>>> one > > constable's > >>> > >> post. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The applications piled up over the last > > few > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> months, > >>>>> about > >>>>>> the time when the > >>>>>> > > situation in the Valley > >>> > >> appeared > >>>> to > >>>>>> be spinning out > >>>>> > > of > >>>>>> control with the > >> cops > >>>>>> > >>> particularly being > >>>> at > > the > >>>>>> receiving end of public > >>>>> > >> wrath. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> J&K > > police DG Kuldeep > >>>> Khoda said > >>>>>> the > >> department > >>>>> has > >>>>>> > > received > >>> 58,975 > >>>>>> applications, > >>>> against > >> 2,786 > >>>>>> > > vacancies across the > >>>>> > >>> Valley. > >>>>>> "The response > >> > > from > >>>>>> > >>>> (the worst-hit) > >>>>>> Srinagar and > >>> Budgam districts > > was > >> even > >>>>> more > >>>>>> > >>>> heartening," he > >>>>>> said. > >>>>>> > >>> > > "We've received > >> 2,860 applications, against > >>>> 529 > >>>>> posts > >>>>>> > > in > >>> > >> Srinagar > >>>>>> > >>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in > >>>> > > Budgam," he > >>> > >> said. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lack of jobs > >>>>>> has been a big spur > > for the > >>>> > >> protests > >>>>> > >>> that > >>>>>> brought thousands > > of > >>>>>> > >>>>>> young educated > >> men on to the > >>>> > >>> streets. > > Official > >>>>> estimates of > >>>>>> the > >> number > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> unemployed > > in > >>> the > >>>> Valley stands at 3 > >> lakhs. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Khoda told > >>>>>> > > reporters the > >>> department held > >>>> > >> a > >>>>> recruitment > >>>>>> rally in > > Baramulla > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> district in July > >> and was > >>>> overwhelmed with > > the > >>>>> response. > >>>>>> "Over > >>> 8,000 > >>>>>> > >> people > >>>>>> turned up > > for > >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the > >>>>> > >>> > >> district," > >>>>>> > > he > >>>>>> said, and added > >>>>>> > >>>> that even stone-pelters > >>> > >> attended > > the rally. He said > >>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> department > >>>> was > >>>>>> > >> > > mulling > >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives > >>>>>> across > >>>>> > > the > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> Valley, > >>> particularly > >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > > to end > >>>>>> > >> the > >>>> > >>> unrest. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > > reports on desertions > >> and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> insubordination. He > > claimed > >>>>>> no police personnel > >> had quit since > >>>> > >>> mid-June > >>>>>> > > when > >>>>> Kashmir > >>>>>> erupted in > >> anger > >>>>>> against the > >>> > > alleged > >>>> staged encounter > >>>>>> of three > >> north > >>>>> Kashmir > >>>>>> > > youth and > >>> a > >>>>>> 17-year-old > >>>> boy's killing > >> in > >>>>>> police > > action. Over 60 > >>>>> > >>> people, > >>>>>> including > >> women > >>>>>> > >>>> and > > children, have > >>>>>> died in police > >>> firing on > >>>>> > >> protesters > >>>>>> > > since > >>>> then. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> State > >>>>>> government > >>> sources > >> said J&K > > CM Omar > >>>>> Abdullah, > >>>> who > >>>>>> has called for a > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >> > > proactive approach including the phased > >>>> revocation of > >>>>> > >> > > the > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> controversial > >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces > > Act > >>>> to > >> deal with > >>> street > >>>>>> > >>>>>> protests, has ordered > >>>>>> > > creation of more > >> police > >>>> jobs to > >>> induct youth from > >>>>>> > > the > >>>>>> troubled > >> areas. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Meanwhile, in > >>>> its > >>> ongoing > > drive to reach out > >>>>>> > >> to the > >>>>> people, > >>>>>> Kashmir > > range > >>>>>> > >>> IGP > >>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, > >> attended > >>>>>> > > police-public > >>>>> meetings in > >>>>>> > >>> Ganderbal > >>>> and > >>>>>> > >> Budgam > > districts. "At > >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police > >>>>> > >>> > > Lines, > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> around 300 people > >>>>>> including senior > >>>>>> > > citizens and > >>> sarpanchs > >>>> > >> participated," > >>>>> a > >>>>>> police > > spokesman > >>>>>> said. > >>>>>> "Sahai > >>> > >> assured the > >>>> people that > > police will > >>>>> adopt > >>>>>> maximum > >>> > >> restraint > >>>>>> > >>>>>> while > > dealing > >>>> with law and order > >>> > >> situations." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> > > _________________________________________ > >>>>>> > >>> reader-list: an > > open > >>>> > >> discussion > >>>>>> list on media and the > >>>>>> city. > >>>>>> > >>> > > Critiques & > >>>> > >> Collaborations > >>>>>> To > >>>>>> subscribe: send an email > > to > >>>> > >>> > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>>>>> with subscribe > >>>>>> in > > the subject > >>>> > >>> > >> header. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>>>> List > >> > > archive: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > > > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > _________________________________________ > >>>> > >> reader-list: an > > open > >>>> > >>> discussion > >>>>>> list on media and the city. > >>>> > >> Critiques > > & Collaborations > >>>> > >>> To > >>>> subscribe: send an > >>>>>> email to > >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe > >>>> in the subject > >>>>>> > >> > > header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List > >> > > archive: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open > >>> > >> > > discussion > >>>> list on media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & > > Collaborations > >>>> > >> To > >>> subscribe: send > >>>> an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>>> > >> subscribe > >>> in the subject > >>>> > > header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List > > archive: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > __________________________ > >>>> _______________ > >>> reader-list: an > > open > >>> > >> discussion list on media and the > >>>> city. > >>> Critiques & > > Collaborations > >>> > >> To > >>> subscribe: send an email to > >>>> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in > >>> the subject header. > >>> > > To > >>>> unsubscribe: > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List > > archive: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > ______________________ > >>> ___________________ > >> reader-list: an open > >> > > discussion list on media and the > >>> city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To > >> subscribe: send an email to > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in > >> the subject header. > >> To > >>> unsubscribe: > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open > > discussion > >> list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To > > subscribe: send > >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe > > in the subject > >> header. > >> To unsubscribe: > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > __________________________ > >> _______________ > > reader-list: an open > > discussion list on media and the > >> city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To > > subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > > the subject header. > > To > >> unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > ______________________ > > ___________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 16:29:57 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:29:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not sure about the accuracy of your claim of Nehru 'hounding' the leftists in Kashmir. It was the Left faction in the NC that turned against Sheikh Abdullah in 1952 when they thought he was hobnobbing with the Americans. You can read both Josef Korbel's account as well as N.N Raina on what the Communists thought of Sh. Abdullah. And I really fail to see the connection. I'd blame Nehru less and our present culture of globalization and glitz and slick ads on TV more for the decline of interest in crafts and agriculture and the false glamour attached to white collar jobs. On 08/09/10 4:16 PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > Dear Sonia i was casually surfing about agriculture, and found this > interesting piece on Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite > slippery to compare it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are > some historical reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant. > People are not happy with rural life, because of number of reasons. The crafts > people are not adequately paid for their skills and they naturally shun > traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their own systems which > sutain... but the jobs are jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as much > a carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for the easier > paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what must have happened > in Kurdistan, where they are just little traditional farming left... the > young boys seeking jobs ( police etc )in Kashmir are because we traditionally > have never respected the worker, but a govt servant, who manages to find a > healthy wealthy and beautiful bride easily in comparision to non govt > servant. There is a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans > in Kashmir hounded Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left poltics > during 40 to 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress policy of india > and kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was a leftists ). even if we > forget about the histroy how centre humilated Sheikh abdullah time and > again... The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it > does not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian govt > been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have looked down > upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner, but that is > unlikely. Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West Bengal who > experienced some land reforms... rest of india was mute spectator to > brilliant changes that were happening under the broad day light.... Shame > to Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which actually was meant > to gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. That thing > still continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, who joined hands > in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual nature of kashmir > issue. the discussion can go on will come back hugs love is the link > below http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml Another > sociological study states: "The share of agriculture in gross domestic > product sank [from 1962 to 1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even though > the number of those employed on the land has only dropped slightly (from 9.7 > to 9.0 million). A result of this development was sinking incomes for > those working in agriculture and a subsequent migration from the countryside. > Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty towns) sprang up." [4] None of this > amounts to the formation of a Kurdish bourgeoisie as the backbone of an > independent nation-state, but rather signals the integration of the Kurdish > people into the Turkish and international working class. The amalgamation of > Turkish and Kurdish workers by means of a common socialist programme lay > within reach. The perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have > opened up favourable prospects for the structural development of the > backward mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the > Kurdish minority. On the other hand, the project of forming an independent > nation-state was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. In > the beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic social basis > for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who might have hoped to > find careers and posts in such a state apparatus. The PKK turned its back on > the urban working class. Following its foundation in 1979-80, it organised a > few battles and skirmishes with the big landowners, which were followed by the > peasants with a certain sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK > remained limited as they renounced a radical programme to liberate the > peasants, so as not to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big > landowners. Their bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), rival > Kurdish organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear and > terror among ordinary people. Meanwhile, the social democratic government of > Bulent Ecevit was deliberately raking up national chauvinism and religious > differences in order to gain control of the militant workers movement. The > 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred during Ecevit's period in office. He > entered a coalition with the Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of the > present Welfare Party) and introduced the state recognition of Islamic > schools. Once he had engineered clashes in this way, in 1978 Ecevit > implemented military rule in the Kurdish provinces. At this time, there were > around a million workers and students who were members of organisations > claiming to be socialist. On 9/8/10, SJabbar > wrote: > Not at all. Please see my reply to Inder Salim. > > > On 08/09/10 > 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > dear Sonia, > > To ask > questions and to judge are very different. No? > > I was just > > curious if > the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the > posting about > > lines of > young men joining the police could be stretched > to other moments in > > near > times. Somehow from your response it seems it > cannot be. You somehow > > > accept one as given and the other as strange. > Still not sure how you make > > > that distinction. > > warmly > jeebesh > > On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar > wrote: > > > > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or > being > > > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far > more > >> > > complicated and illegible > > than the judgement of the > spectator. > > ' > > > > So > > the spectator must suspend judgment, must not > question? Then why > > do you > > > > question when the state acts within its > 'iron frame' inherited from > > the > > ICS? > > Mysterious motives must also > drive the one who drives you mad by > > > > telling you > > he can't find your > file or that you must pay a bribe to get a > > copy > > of the > > challan > which you thought due to you. > > > > > > > > > > On 07/09/10 > > 7:21 PM, > "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > >> The so called iron frame of > > > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > > officers. > >> It was more than > getting > > on with life :) > > > > On Kashmir i understand very little > >> > to be able to > > comment. But some > > comments seem to mock the people who > are > >> trying to > > articulate > > something substantial. A little caution > about > >> interpreting > > quickly. > > The maxim of the actors are always > far more > >> complicated and > > illegible > > than the judgement of the > spectator. > > > > On > >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 > > PM, SJabbar wrote: > > > >> > Did they? Or did they do what most > >> people do, make > > their peace > with > >> the new > >> dispensation and get on with > >> life. > >> > >> The > > > point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 > >> > >> > young > > men > >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what > people > >> > > are > >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't > see the J&K > >> > >> > > Police as > >> an abhorrent force? Can it be that > they are the relatives of > > men > >> > >> who are > >> already in the JKP? > Can it be that they don't subscribe > > to > >> azadi? > >> And how > >> do > the families of tens of thousands of men who are > > in > >> the JKP and > >> > JAKLI see > >> their kin? > >> > >> Another puzzling matter: > > we speak > >> > of the AFSPA and its revocation > >> but the > >> JKP is not protected > > by > the Act. > >> And one more thing: the army, that > >> has > >> been > responsible > > for the worst > >> human rights abuses in the last 2 > >> > decades is > >> not > > targeted by the > >> stone-pelters. They continue > their work of > >> > > patrolling > >> and cordon & > >> search operations as > if they live on another > > planet. > >> The target > >> is > >> always the > JKP. > >> > >> > >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, > > "Jeebesh" > > >> wrote: > >> > >>> agreed. but how come they all > > became unquestionable > nationalists > >> > >>> after > >>> > >> 1947? > >> > >> On > > 07-Sep-10, at > 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> > >>> You're > >> right Jeebesh, and > >>> > > > most people who were recruited were > >>> absolutely > >>> > >> loyal to the > > > British > >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. > >>> And > >> > why > >>> > > just speak of the > >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was > deeply > >> divided > >>> > > and very > >>> few at the > >>> time articulated > it as a 'war for > >> > > independence.' It > >>> would be > >>> foolish to > > >>> say that those who served > > the > >> British Empire were closet > >>> > nationalists forced > >>> into furthering > > their > >> careers by joining > the > >>> army or > >>> ICS. > >>> > >>> > >>> On > >>> > > 07/09/10 5:22 > PM, > >> "Jeebesh" wrote: > >>> > >>>> recruitment > > > in > >>> indian > >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > >>> > the > >>>> > > british army > >>> was > >> very high. what did this say about > the aspiration > >>> > > and lives > >>>> being > >> led > >>> at that time in > the sub continent. do we > > even > >>> count that number > >>>> > >> today > in > >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in > > the sub > >>> continent? > >>> > >>> > On > >> 07-Sep-10, at > >>>> 2:10 > >>> PM, SJabbar > > wrote: > >>> > >>>> > But Gowhar, what happens > >> when a man who hitherto > >>>> > >>> > > abhors > an > >>>> institution joins > >>>> it? What > >> happens to that extreme > > > emotion > >>>> > >>> when the line is crossed, > >>>> when > >> the > >>>> > uniform is > > donned, when the > >>> 'danda' > >>>> drops firmly into his > > >> hands? > >>>> By your > > logic all those who joined > >>> the force > >>>> > post-1990 once > >> abhorred > >>>> > > the > >>>> institution and now have > become > >>> the > >>>> oppressors. > >> And those > > who pelt > >>>> > stones > >>>> at the oppressors now want > >>> to > >>>> join > >> the > > > same hated institution only > >>>> to become > >>>> future oppressors? > >>> > > >> > > Not > >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may > >>>> > understand this, > > but > >> I > >>> have to > >>>> tell you, it's left me > totally > >>>> > > perplexed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On > >> 07/09/10 > >>> 1:58 > PM, > >>>> "gowhar fazli" > > > >> wrote: > >>>> > > >>>>>> I don't > >>> like the > > heading > >>>> "Why Kashmir > >>>>> defies > > >> solutions". > >>>>> > >>>>> It is > > in > >>>>>> > >>> these moments that > the > >>>> real > >> desperation and loss > >>>>> > > of self of Kashmiris > > >>> as a > >>>>>> people > >> becomes > >>>> evident. For > >>>>> > > > livelihood they have to stoop > >>> before the > >> same > >>>>>> > >>>> > > > institutions > >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor > >>> for > >> > > > obvious > >>>> reasons. > >>>>> > >>>>>> This contradiction that runs > through > > their > >>> > >> very selves, > >>>>> > >>>> prevents people > > >>>>>> from acquiring a > > full blown > >>> > >> human-hood. > >>>>> > >>>>> > There should > >>>> be no guilt > > or > >>>>>> indignity > >> associated > > >>> with > >>>>> acquiring of livelihood > >>>> > > through legitimate > >> > means, > >>>>>> but > >>> this > >>>>> is the case one way or > > the other, > > >>>> for most > >> people in > >>>>> > >>> Kashmir. > >>>>>> The boundaries > > > between legitimate and > >>>> > >> illegitimate > >>>>> are > >>> > dizzyingly > > fuzzy > >>>>>> because of the manner in which > >> the > > >>>>> > >>>> selves are > >>> > > split. > >>>>> > >>>>> If not for any > > >>>>>> other but for > >> the indignities > >>>> > > involved > >>> in > >>>>> > the status quo that Kashmir > >> issue > >>>>>> should be > > resolved for > > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> good. > >>>>> > >>>>> --- On Tue, > >> 9/7/10, > > > SJabbar > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> wrote: > > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >> > > From: SJabbar > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Subject: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies > > >>>>>> solutions > >>>>>> To: > > "Sarai" > >>>> > >>> > >> > > >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, > >>>>>> > > September 7, > 2010, 10:19 > >>> > >> AM > >>>>>> > >>>> Printed from > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > > Khaki enemy? 60,000 > >>>>>> Kashmiris > >> apply for > >>> 3,000 > >>>> > police > >>>>> > > jobs > >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep > >> 7, > >>>>>> > 2010, 01.30am > >>> > > IST > >>>>>> > >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of > >> > desertions in its > > ranks > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> and > >>>>>> threats of > > >>>> social > >>>>>> > >> boycott, > > J&K police has emerged as a big > >>> > draw > >>>>>> for > >>>>> > >> young > >>>>>> > >>>> > > job hunters in > > >>>>>> employment-starved > >>> Kashmir. Ignoring > >> calls > >>>>>> > > by > > >>>>> > >>>> hardliners to > >>>>>> shun the khaki > >>>>>> > >>> force, > >> > nearly > > 60,000 men applied > >>>>>> for > >>>> less than 3,000 > >>>>> > jobs > >>>>>> in > >>> > >> > > J&K police -- > >>>>>> about 200 applicants > for > >>>>>> > >>>> one > > constable's > >>> > >> post. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The > applications piled up over the last > > few > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > months, > >>>>> about > >>>>>> the time when the > >>>>>> > > situation in the > Valley > >>> > >> appeared > >>>> to > >>>>>> be spinning out > >>>>> > > of > > >>>>>> control with the > >> cops > >>>>>> > >>> particularly being > >>>> > at > > the > >>>>>> receiving end of public > >>>>> > >> wrath. > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>> J&K > > police DG Kuldeep > >>>> Khoda said > >>>>>> the > >> > department > >>>>> has > >>>>>> > > received > >>> 58,975 > >>>>>> > applications, > >>>> against > >> 2,786 > >>>>>> > > vacancies across the > > >>>>> > >>> Valley. > >>>>>> "The response > >> > > from > >>>>>> > >>>> (the > worst-hit) > >>>>>> Srinagar and > >>> Budgam districts > > was > >> even > > >>>>> more > >>>>>> > >>>> heartening," he > >>>>>> said. > >>>>>> > >>> > > > "We've received > >> 2,860 applications, against > >>>> 529 > >>>>> posts > > >>>>>> > > in > >>> > >> Srinagar > >>>>>> > >>>>>> district, while 8053 > against 283 in > >>>> > > Budgam," he > >>> > >> said. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lack > of jobs > >>>>>> has been a big spur > > for the > >>>> > >> protests > > >>>>> > >>> that > >>>>>> brought thousands > > of > >>>>>> > >>>>>> young > educated > >> men on to the > >>>> > >>> streets. > > Official > >>>>> > estimates of > >>>>>> the > >> number > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> unemployed > > in > > >>> the > >>>> Valley stands at 3 > >> lakhs. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Khoda told > > >>>>>> > > reporters the > >>> department held > >>>> > >> a > >>>>> > recruitment > >>>>>> rally in > > Baramulla > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> district > in July > >> and was > >>>> overwhelmed with > > the > >>>>> response. > > >>>>>> "Over > >>> 8,000 > >>>>>> > >> people > >>>>>> turned up > > for > > >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the > >>>>> > >>> > >> district," > >>>>>> > > > he > >>>>>> said, and added > >>>>>> > >>>> that even stone-pelters > >>> > > >> attended > > the rally. He said > >>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> department > > >>>> was > >>>>>> > >> > > mulling > >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives > > >>>>>> across > >>>>> > > the > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> Valley, > >>> > particularly > >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > > to end > >>>>>> > >> > the > >>>> > >>> unrest. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > > reports > on desertions > >> and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> insubordination. He > > > claimed > >>>>>> no police personnel > >> had quit since > >>>> > >>> > mid-June > >>>>>> > > when > >>>>> Kashmir > >>>>>> erupted in > >> anger > > >>>>>> against the > >>> > > alleged > >>>> staged encounter > >>>>>> of > three > >> north > >>>>> Kashmir > >>>>>> > > youth and > >>> a > >>>>>> > 17-year-old > >>>> boy's killing > >> in > >>>>>> police > > action. Over 60 > > >>>>> > >>> people, > >>>>>> including > >> women > >>>>>> > >>>> and > > > children, have > >>>>>> died in police > >>> firing on > >>>>> > >> > protesters > >>>>>> > > since > >>>> then. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> State > >>>>>> > government > >>> sources > >> said J&K > > CM Omar > >>>>> Abdullah, > >>>> > who > >>>>>> has called for a > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >> > > proactive > approach including the phased > >>>> revocation of > >>>>> > >> > > the > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> controversial > >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces > > > Act > >>>> to > >> deal with > >>> street > >>>>>> > >>>>>> protests, has > ordered > >>>>>> > > creation of more > >> police > >>>> jobs to > >>> induct > youth from > >>>>>> > > the > >>>>>> troubled > >> areas. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Meanwhile, in > >>>> its > >>> ongoing > > drive to reach out > >>>>>> > >> to > the > >>>>> people, > >>>>>> Kashmir > > range > >>>>>> > >>> IGP > >>>> > Kashmir, S M Sahai, > >> attended > >>>>>> > > police-public > >>>>> meetings > in > >>>>>> > >>> Ganderbal > >>>> and > >>>>>> > >> Budgam > > districts. > "At > >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police > >>>>> > >>> > > Lines, > >>>>>> > > >>>> > >> around 300 people > >>>>>> including senior > >>>>>> > > citizens > and > >>> sarpanchs > >>>> > >> participated," > >>>>> a > >>>>>> police > > > spokesman > >>>>>> said. > >>>>>> "Sahai > >>> > >> assured the > >>>> people > that > > police will > >>>>> adopt > >>>>>> maximum > >>> > >> restraint > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> while > > dealing > >>>> with law and order > >>> > >> > situations." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> > > > _________________________________________ > >>>>>> > >>> reader-list: an > > > open > >>>> > >> discussion > >>>>>> list on media and the > >>>>>> city. > > >>>>>> > >>> > > Critiques & > >>>> > >> Collaborations > >>>>>> To > >>>>>> > subscribe: send an email > > to > >>>> > >>> > >> > reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>>>>> with subscribe > >>>>>> in > > the > subject > >>>> > >>> > >> header. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe: > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>>>> > List > >> > > archive: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>> > > > > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > > _________________________________________ > >>>> > >> reader-list: an > > > open > >>>> > >>> discussion > >>>>>> list on media and the city. > >>>> > >> > Critiques > > & Collaborations > >>>> > >>> To > >>>> subscribe: send an > > >>>>>> email to > >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe > > >>>> in the subject > >>>>>> > >> > > header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List > >> > > > archive: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > >>> > >> > > _________________________________________ > >>>> > reader-list: an open > >>> > >> > > discussion > >>>> list on media and the > city. > >>>> Critiques & > > Collaborations > >>>> > >> To > >>> subscribe: > send > >>>> an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>>> > >> > subscribe > >>> in the subject > >>>> > > header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > >>>> > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> > List > > archive: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > __________________________ > >>>> _______________ > >>> reader-list: an > > > open > >>> > >> discussion list on media and the > >>>> city. > >>> Critiques > & > > Collaborations > >>> > >> To > >>> subscribe: send an email to > >>>> > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in > >>> the subject > header. > >>> > > To > >>>> unsubscribe: > >>> > >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List > > archive: > > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > ______________________ > >>> ___________________ > >> > reader-list: an open > >> > > discussion list on media and the > >>> city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To > >> subscribe: send an email to > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in > >> the subject > header. > >> To > >>> unsubscribe: > >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > >>> > > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open > > > discussion > >> list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To > > subscribe: send > >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >> subscribe > > in the subject > >> header. > >> To unsubscribe: > > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List > archive: > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > __________________________ > >> _______________ > > reader-list: an open > > > discussion list on media and the > >> city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To > > subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > > the subject header. > > To > >> unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > ______________________ > > ___________________ > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the > > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To > > unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- > http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & > Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 16:51:30 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:51:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: in any case the poeple in kashmir are free to seek govt jobs irrespective of politics that is plaguing the valley since 1947 or? you still see it differntly? love is On 9/8/10, SJabbar wrote: > Not sure about the accuracy of your claim of Nehru 'hounding' the leftists > in Kashmir. It was the Left faction in the NC that turned against Sheikh > Abdullah in 1952 when they thought he was hobnobbing with the Americans. You > can read both Josef Korbel's account as well as N.N Raina on what the > Communists thought of Sh. Abdullah. And I really fail to see the connection. > I'd blame Nehru less and our present culture of globalization and glitz and > slick ads on TV more for the decline of interest in crafts and agriculture > and the false glamour attached to white collar jobs. > > > On 08/09/10 4:16 PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > > > Dear Sonia > i was casually surfing about agriculture, and found this > > interesting > piece on Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite > > slippery > to compare it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are > > some > historical reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant. > > > > People are not happy with rural life, because of number of reasons. > The crafts > > people are not adequately paid for their skills and they > naturally shun > > traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their > own systems which > > sutain... > > but the jobs are jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as much > > a > carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for the > easier > > paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what must > have happened > > in Kurdistan, where they are just little traditional > farming left... > > the > > young boys seeking jobs ( police etc )in Kashmir are because we > traditionally > > have never respected the worker, but a govt servant, > who manages to find a > > healthy wealthy and beautiful bride easily in > comparision to non govt > > servant. > > There is a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans > > in > Kashmir hounded Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left > poltics > > during 40 to 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress > policy of india > > and kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was > a leftists ). even if we > > forget about the histroy how centre humilated > Sheikh abdullah time and > > again... > > The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it > > does > not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian > govt > > been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have > looked down > > upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner, > but that is > > unlikely. > > Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West Bengal who > > experienced > some land reforms... rest of india was mute spectator to > > brilliant > changes that were happening under the broad day light.... Shame > > to > Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which actually was meant > > to > gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. That thing > > still > continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, who joined > hands > > in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual nature of > kashmir > > issue. > > the discussion can go on > will come back > > hugs > love > is > > the link > > below > http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml > > Another > > sociological study states: > > "The share of agriculture in gross domestic > > product sank [from 1962 to > 1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even though > > the number of those > employed on the land has only dropped slightly (from 9.7 > > to 9.0 > million). A result of this development was sinking incomes for > > those > working in agriculture and a subsequent migration from the > countryside. > > Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty towns) sprang up." > [4] > > None of this > > amounts to the formation of a Kurdish bourgeoisie as the > backbone of an > > independent nation-state, but rather signals the > integration of the Kurdish > > people into the Turkish and international > working class. The amalgamation of > > Turkish and Kurdish workers by > means of a common socialist programme lay > > within reach. The > perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have > > opened up > favourable prospects for the structural development of the > > backward > mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the > > Kurdish > minority. > > On the other hand, the project of forming an independent > > nation-state > was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. In > > the > beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic social > basis > > for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who might > have hoped to > > find careers and posts in such a state apparatus. > > The PKK turned its back on > > the urban working class. Following its > foundation in 1979-80, it organised a > > few battles and skirmishes with > the big landowners, which were followed by the > > peasants with a certain > sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK > > remained limited as > they renounced a radical programme to liberate the > > peasants, so as not > to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big > > landowners. Their > bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), rival > > Kurdish > organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear and > > terror > among ordinary people. > > Meanwhile, the social democratic government of > > Bulent Ecevit was > deliberately raking up national chauvinism and religious > > differences > in order to gain control of the militant workers movement. The > > 1974 > Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred during Ecevit's period in office. > He > > entered a coalition with the Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of > the > > present Welfare Party) and introduced the state recognition of > Islamic > > schools. Once he had engineered clashes in this way, in 1978 > Ecevit > > implemented military rule in the Kurdish provinces. At this > time, there were > > around a million workers and students who were > members of organisations > > claiming to be socialist. > > > > On 9/8/10, SJabbar > > wrote: > > Not at all. Please see my reply to Inder Salim. > > > > > > On 08/09/10 > > 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > > > dear Sonia, > > > > To ask > > questions and to judge are very different. No? > > > > I was just > > > curious if > > the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the > > posting about > > > lines of > > young men joining the police could be stretched > > to other moments in > > > near > > times. Somehow from your response it seems it > > cannot be. You somehow > > > > > accept one as given and the other as strange. > > Still not sure how you make > > > > > that distinction. > > > > warmly > > jeebesh > > > > On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or > > being > > > > > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far > > more > > >> > > > complicated and illegible > > > than the judgement of the > > spectator. > > > ' > > > > > > So > > > the spectator must suspend judgment, must not > > question? Then why > > > do you > > > > > > question when the state acts within its > > 'iron frame' inherited from > > > the > > > ICS? > > > Mysterious motives must also > > drive the one who drives you mad by > > > > > > telling you > > > he can't find your > > file or that you must pay a bribe to get a > > > copy > > > of the > > > challan > > which you thought due to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 07/09/10 > > > 7:21 PM, > > "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > > > >> The so called iron frame of > > > > > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > > > officers. > > >> It was more than > > getting > > > on with life :) > > > > > > On Kashmir i understand very little > > >> > > to be able to > > > comment. But some > > > comments seem to mock the people who > > are > > >> trying to > > > articulate > > > something substantial. A little caution > > about > > >> interpreting > > > quickly. > > > The maxim of the actors are always > > far more > > >> complicated and > > > illegible > > > than the judgement of the > > spectator. > > > > > > On > > >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 > > > PM, SJabbar wrote: > > > > > >> > > Did they? Or did they do what most > > >> people do, make > > > their peace > > with > > >> the new > > >> dispensation and get on with > > >> life. > > >> > > >> The > > > > > point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 > > >> > > >> > > young > > > men > > >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what > > people > > >> > > > are > > >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't > > see the J&K > > >> > > >> > > > Police as > > >> an abhorrent force? Can it be that > > they are the relatives of > > > men > > >> > > >> who are > > >> already in the JKP? > > Can it be that they don't subscribe > > > to > > >> azadi? > > >> And how > > >> do > > the families of tens of thousands of men who are > > > in > > >> the JKP and > > >> > > JAKLI see > > >> their kin? > > >> > > >> Another puzzling matter: > > > we speak > > >> > > of the AFSPA and its revocation > > >> but the > > >> JKP is not protected > > > by > > the Act. > > >> And one more thing: the army, that > > >> has > > >> been > > responsible > > > for the worst > > >> human rights abuses in the last 2 > > >> > > decades is > > >> not > > > targeted by the > > >> stone-pelters. They continue > > their work of > > >> > > > patrolling > > >> and cordon & > > >> search operations as > > if they live on another > > > planet. > > >> The target > > >> is > > >> always the > > JKP. > > >> > > >> > > >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, > > > "Jeebesh" > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> agreed. but how come they all > > > became unquestionable > > nationalists > > >> > > >>> after > > >>> > > >> 1947? > > >> > > >> On > > > 07-Sep-10, at > > 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > > >> > > >>> You're > > >> right Jeebesh, and > > >>> > > > > > most people who were recruited were > > >>> absolutely > > >>> > > >> loyal to the > > > > > British > > >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. > > >>> And > > >> > > why > > >>> > > > just speak of the > > >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was > > deeply > > >> divided > > >>> > > > and very > > >>> few at the > > >>> time articulated > > it as a 'war for > > >> > > > independence.' It > > >>> would be > > >>> foolish to > > > > >>> say that those who served > > > the > > >> British Empire were closet > > >>> > > nationalists forced > > >>> into furthering > > > their > > >> careers by joining > > the > > >>> army or > > >>> ICS. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On > > >>> > > > 07/09/10 5:22 > > PM, > > >> "Jeebesh" wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> recruitment > > > > > in > > >>> indian > > >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > > >>> > > the > > >>>> > > > british army > > >>> was > > >> very high. what did this say about > > the aspiration > > >>> > > > and lives > > >>>> being > > >> led > > >>> at that time in > > the sub continent. do we > > > even > > >>> count that number > > >>>> > > >> today > > in > > >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in > > > the sub > > >>> continent? > > >>> > > >>> > > On > > >> 07-Sep-10, at > > >>>> 2:10 > > >>> PM, SJabbar > > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > But Gowhar, what happens > > >> when a man who hitherto > > >>>> > > >>> > > > abhors > > an > > >>>> institution joins > > >>>> it? What > > >> happens to that extreme > > > > > emotion > > >>>> > > >>> when the line is crossed, > > >>>> when > > >> the > > >>>> > > uniform is > > > donned, when the > > >>> 'danda' > > >>>> drops firmly into his > > > > >> hands? > > >>>> By your > > > logic all those who joined > > >>> the force > > >>>> > > post-1990 once > > >> abhorred > > >>>> > > > the > > >>>> institution and now have > > become > > >>> the > > >>>> oppressors. > > >> And those > > > who pelt > > >>>> > > stones > > >>>> at the oppressors now want > > >>> to > > >>>> join > > >> the > > > > > same hated institution only > > >>>> to become > > >>>> future oppressors? > > >>> > > > > >> > > > Not > > >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You may > > >>>> > > understand this, > > > but > > >> I > > >>> have to > > >>>> tell you, it's left me > > totally > > >>>> > > > perplexed. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On > > >> 07/09/10 > > >>> 1:58 > > PM, > > >>>> "gowhar fazli" > > > > > >> wrote: > > >>>> > > > > >>>>>> I don't > > >>> like the > > > heading > > >>>> "Why Kashmir > > >>>>> defies > > > > >> solutions". > > >>>>> > > >>>>> It is > > > in > > >>>>>> > > >>> these moments that > > the > > >>>> real > > >> desperation and loss > > >>>>> > > > of self of Kashmiris > > > > >>> as a > > >>>>>> people > > >> becomes > > >>>> evident. For > > >>>>> > > > > > livelihood they have to stoop > > >>> before the > > >> same > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > > > institutions > > >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor > > >>> for > > >> > > > > > obvious > > >>>> reasons. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> This contradiction that runs > > through > > > their > > >>> > > >> very selves, > > >>>>> > > >>>> prevents people > > > > >>>>>> from acquiring a > > > full blown > > >>> > > >> human-hood. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > There should > > >>>> be no guilt > > > or > > >>>>>> indignity > > >> associated > > > > >>> with > > >>>>> acquiring of livelihood > > >>>> > > > through legitimate > > >> > > means, > > >>>>>> but > > >>> this > > >>>>> is the case one way or > > > the other, > > > > >>>> for most > > >> people in > > >>>>> > > >>> Kashmir. > > >>>>>> The boundaries > > > > > between legitimate and > > >>>> > > >> illegitimate > > >>>>> are > > >>> > > dizzyingly > > > fuzzy > > >>>>>> because of the manner in which > > >> the > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> selves are > > >>> > > > split. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If not for any > > > > >>>>>> other but for > > >> the indignities > > >>>> > > > involved > > >>> in > > >>>>> > > the status quo that Kashmir > > >> issue > > >>>>>> should be > > > resolved for > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> good. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> --- On Tue, > > >> 9/7/10, > > > > > SJabbar > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > From: SJabbar > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies > > > > >>>>>> solutions > > >>>>>> To: > > > "Sarai" > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, > > >>>>>> > > > September 7, > > 2010, 10:19 > > >>> > > >> AM > > >>>>>> > > >>>> Printed from > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > > > > Khaki enemy? 60,000 > > >>>>>> Kashmiris > > >> apply for > > >>> 3,000 > > >>>> > > police > > >>>>> > > > jobs > > >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep > > >> 7, > > >>>>>> > > 2010, 01.30am > > >>> > > > IST > > >>>>>> > > >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of > > >> > > desertions in its > > > ranks > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> and > > >>>>>> threats of > > > > >>>> social > > >>>>>> > > >> boycott, > > > J&K police has emerged as a big > > >>> > > draw > > >>>>>> for > > >>>>> > > >> young > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > job hunters in > > > > >>>>>> employment-starved > > >>> Kashmir. Ignoring > > >> calls > > >>>>>> > > > by > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> hardliners to > > >>>>>> shun the khaki > > >>>>>> > > >>> force, > > >> > > nearly > > > 60,000 men applied > > >>>>>> for > > >>>> less than 3,000 > > >>>>> > > jobs > > >>>>>> in > > >>> > > >> > > > J&K police -- > > >>>>>> about 200 applicants > > for > > >>>>>> > > >>>> one > > > constable's > > >>> > > >> post. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The > > applications piled up over the last > > > few > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > months, > > >>>>> about > > >>>>>> the time when the > > >>>>>> > > > situation in the > > Valley > > >>> > > >> appeared > > >>>> to > > >>>>>> be spinning out > > >>>>> > > > of > > > > >>>>>> control with the > > >> cops > > >>>>>> > > >>> particularly being > > >>>> > > at > > > the > > >>>>>> receiving end of public > > >>>>> > > >> wrath. > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > >>> J&K > > > police DG Kuldeep > > >>>> Khoda said > > >>>>>> the > > >> > > department > > >>>>> has > > >>>>>> > > > received > > >>> 58,975 > > >>>>>> > > applications, > > >>>> against > > >> 2,786 > > >>>>>> > > > vacancies across the > > > > >>>>> > > >>> Valley. > > >>>>>> "The response > > >> > > > from > > >>>>>> > > >>>> (the > > worst-hit) > > >>>>>> Srinagar and > > >>> Budgam districts > > > was > > >> even > > > > >>>>> more > > >>>>>> > > >>>> heartening," he > > >>>>>> said. > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > > > > "We've received > > >> 2,860 applications, against > > >>>> 529 > > >>>>> posts > > > > >>>>>> > > > in > > >>> > > >> Srinagar > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> district, while 8053 > > against 283 in > > >>>> > > > Budgam," he > > >>> > > >> said. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Lack > > of jobs > > >>>>>> has been a big spur > > > for the > > >>>> > > >> protests > > > > >>>>> > > >>> that > > >>>>>> brought thousands > > > of > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> young > > educated > > >> men on to the > > >>>> > > >>> streets. > > > Official > > >>>>> > > estimates of > > >>>>>> the > > >> number > > >>>>>> of > > >>>>>> unemployed > > > in > > > > >>> the > > >>>> Valley stands at 3 > > >> lakhs. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Khoda told > > > > >>>>>> > > > reporters the > > >>> department held > > >>>> > > >> a > > >>>>> > > recruitment > > >>>>>> rally in > > > Baramulla > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> district > > in July > > >> and was > > >>>> overwhelmed with > > > the > > >>>>> response. > > > > >>>>>> "Over > > >>> 8,000 > > >>>>>> > > >> people > > >>>>>> turned up > > > for > > > > >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the > > >>>>> > > >>> > > >> district," > > >>>>>> > > > > > he > > >>>>>> said, and added > > >>>>>> > > >>>> that even stone-pelters > > >>> > > > > >> attended > > > the rally. He said > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>> department > > > > >>>> was > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > mulling > > >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives > > > > >>>>>> across > > >>>>> > > > the > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> Valley, > > >>> > > particularly > > >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > > > to end > > >>>>>> > > >> > > the > > >>>> > > >>> unrest. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > > > reports > > on desertions > > >> and > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> insubordination. He > > > > > claimed > > >>>>>> no police personnel > > >> had quit since > > >>>> > > >>> > > mid-June > > >>>>>> > > > when > > >>>>> Kashmir > > >>>>>> erupted in > > >> anger > > > > >>>>>> against the > > >>> > > > alleged > > >>>> staged encounter > > >>>>>> of > > three > > >> north > > >>>>> Kashmir > > >>>>>> > > > youth and > > >>> a > > >>>>>> > > 17-year-old > > >>>> boy's killing > > >> in > > >>>>>> police > > > action. Over 60 > > > > >>>>> > > >>> people, > > >>>>>> including > > >> women > > >>>>>> > > >>>> and > > > > > children, have > > >>>>>> died in police > > >>> firing on > > >>>>> > > >> > > protesters > > >>>>>> > > > since > > >>>> then. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> State > > >>>>>> > > government > > >>> sources > > >> said J&K > > > CM Omar > > >>>>> Abdullah, > > >>>> > > who > > >>>>>> has called for a > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > proactive > > approach including the phased > > >>>> revocation of > > >>>>> > > >> > > > the > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> controversial > > >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces > > > > > Act > > >>>> to > > >> deal with > > >>> street > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> protests, has > > ordered > > >>>>>> > > > creation of more > > >> police > > >>>> jobs to > > >>> induct > > youth from > > >>>>>> > > > the > > >>>>>> troubled > > >> areas. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Meanwhile, in > > >>>> its > > >>> ongoing > > > drive to reach out > > >>>>>> > > >> to > > the > > >>>>> people, > > >>>>>> Kashmir > > > range > > >>>>>> > > >>> IGP > > >>>> > > Kashmir, S M Sahai, > > >> attended > > >>>>>> > > > police-public > > >>>>> meetings > > in > > >>>>>> > > >>> Ganderbal > > >>>> and > > >>>>>> > > >> Budgam > > > districts. > > "At > > >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > Lines, > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>> > > >> around 300 people > > >>>>>> including senior > > >>>>>> > > > citizens > > and > > >>> sarpanchs > > >>>> > > >> participated," > > >>>>> a > > >>>>>> police > > > > > spokesman > > >>>>>> said. > > >>>>>> "Sahai > > >>> > > >> assured the > > >>>> people > > that > > > police will > > >>>>> adopt > > >>>>>> maximum > > >>> > > >> restraint > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> while > > > dealing > > >>>> with law and order > > >>> > > >> > > situations." > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > >>>>>> > > >>> reader-list: an > > > > > open > > >>>> > > >> discussion > > >>>>>> list on media and the > > >>>>>> city. > > > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > > Critiques & > > >>>> > > >> Collaborations > > >>>>>> To > > >>>>>> > > subscribe: send an email > > > to > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >>>>>> with subscribe > > >>>>>> in > > > the > > subject > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> header. > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>>>> > > List > > >> > > > archive: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > >>>> > > >> reader-list: an > > > > > open > > >>>> > > >>> discussion > > >>>>>> list on media and the city. > > >>>> > > >> > > Critiques > > > & Collaborations > > >>>> > > >>> To > > >>>> subscribe: send an > > > > >>>>>> email to > > >> > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>> subscribe > > > > >>>> in the subject > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > header. > > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> List > > >> > > > > > archive: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > >>>> > > reader-list: an open > > >>> > > >> > > > discussion > > >>>> list on media and the > > city. > > >>>> Critiques & > > > Collaborations > > >>>> > > >> To > > >>> subscribe: > > send > > >>>> an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>>> > > >> > > subscribe > > >>> in the subject > > >>>> > > > header. > > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> > > List > > > archive: > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > __________________________ > > >>>> _______________ > > >>> reader-list: an > > > > > open > > >>> > > >> discussion list on media and the > > >>>> city. > > >>> Critiques > > & > > > Collaborations > > >>> > > >> To > > >>> subscribe: send an email to > > >>>> > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in > > >>> the subject > > header. > > >>> > > > To > > >>>> unsubscribe: > > >>> > > >> > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> List > > > archive: > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ______________________ > > >>> ___________________ > > >> > > reader-list: an open > > >> > > > discussion list on media and the > > >>> city. > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > > > To > > >> subscribe: send an email to > > > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in > > >> the subject > > header. > > >> To > > >>> unsubscribe: > > >> > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: > > >>> > > > > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open > > > > > discussion > > >> list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> To > > > subscribe: send > > >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > >> subscribe > > > in the subject > > >> header. > > >> To unsubscribe: > > > > >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List > > archive: > > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________ > > >> _______________ > > > reader-list: an open > > > > > discussion list on media and the > > >> city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To > > > subscribe: send an email to > > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in > > > the subject header. > > > To > > >> unsubscribe: > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > >> > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ > > > ___________________ > > reader-list: an open > > discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To > > subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To > > > unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & > > Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 16:56:35 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:56:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You seem to be the one offering all kinds of explanations for what I consider normal activity. It only appears abnormal to me in the context of the current phase of the azadi movement that specifically targets the J&K Police and not the Indian Army. On 08/09/10 4:51 PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > in any case the poeple in kashmir are free to seek govt jobs irrespective of > politics that is plaguing the valley since 1947 or? you still see it > differntly? love is On 9/8/10, SJabbar wrote: > Not > sure about the accuracy of your claim of Nehru 'hounding' the leftists > in > Kashmir. It was the Left faction in the NC that turned against Sheikh > > Abdullah in 1952 when they thought he was hobnobbing with the Americans. You > > can read both Josef Korbel's account as well as N.N Raina on what the > > Communists thought of Sh. Abdullah. And I really fail to see the connection. > > I'd blame Nehru less and our present culture of globalization and glitz and > > slick ads on TV more for the decline of interest in crafts and agriculture > > and the false glamour attached to white collar jobs. > > > On 08/09/10 4:16 > PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > > > Dear Sonia > i was > casually surfing about agriculture, and found this > > interesting > piece on > Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite > > slippery > to compare > it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are > > some > historical > reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant. > > > > People are not > happy with rural life, because of number of reasons. > The crafts > > people > are not adequately paid for their skills and they > naturally shun > > > traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their > own systems which > > > sutain... > > but the jobs are jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as > much > > a > carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for > the > easier > > paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what > must > have happened > > in Kurdistan, where they are just little > traditional > farming left... > > the > > young boys seeking jobs ( police etc > )in Kashmir are because we > traditionally > > have never respected the > worker, but a govt servant, > who manages to find a > > healthy wealthy and > beautiful bride easily in > comparision to non govt > > servant. > > There is > a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans > > in > Kashmir hounded > Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left > poltics > > during 40 to > 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress > policy of india > > and > kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was > a leftists ). even if we > > > forget about the histroy how centre humilated > Sheikh abdullah time and > > > again... > > The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it > > > does > not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian > > govt > > been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have > > looked down > > upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner, > but > that is > > unlikely. > > Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West > Bengal who > > experienced > some land reforms... rest of india was mute > spectator to > > brilliant > changes that were happening under the broad day > light.... Shame > > to > Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which > actually was meant > > to > gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. > That thing > > still > continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, > who joined > hands > > in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual > nature of > kashmir > > issue. > > the discussion can go on > will come > back > > hugs > love > is > > the link > > below > > http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml > > Another > > > sociological study states: > > "The share of agriculture in gross domestic > > > product sank [from 1962 to > 1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even > though > > the number of those > employed on the land has only dropped > slightly (from 9.7 > > to 9.0 > million). A result of this development was > sinking incomes for > > those > working in agriculture and a subsequent > migration from the > countryside. > > Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty > towns) sprang up." > [4] > > None of this > > amounts to the formation of a > Kurdish bourgeoisie as the > backbone of an > > independent nation-state, but > rather signals the > integration of the Kurdish > > people into the Turkish > and international > working class. The amalgamation of > > Turkish and Kurdish > workers by > means of a common socialist programme lay > > within reach. The > > perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have > > opened up > > favourable prospects for the structural development of the > > backward > > mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the > > Kurdish > > minority. > > On the other hand, the project of forming an independent > > > nation-state > was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. > In > > the > beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic > social > basis > > for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who > might > have hoped to > > find careers and posts in such a state > apparatus. > > The PKK turned its back on > > the urban working class. > Following its > foundation in 1979-80, it organised a > > few battles and > skirmishes with > the big landowners, which were followed by the > > peasants > with a certain > sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK > > remained > limited as > they renounced a radical programme to liberate the > > peasants, > so as not > to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big > > > landowners. Their > bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), > rival > > Kurdish > organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear > and > > terror > among ordinary people. > > Meanwhile, the social democratic > government of > > Bulent Ecevit was > deliberately raking up national > chauvinism and religious > > differences > in order to gain control of the > militant workers movement. The > > 1974 > Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred > during Ecevit's period in office. > He > > entered a coalition with the > Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of > the > > present Welfare Party) and > introduced the state recognition of > Islamic > > schools. Once he had > engineered clashes in this way, in 1978 > Ecevit > > implemented military rule > in the Kurdish provinces. At this > time, there were > > around a million > workers and students who were > members of organisations > > claiming to be > socialist. > > > > On 9/8/10, SJabbar > > wrote: > > > Not at all. Please see my reply to Inder Salim. > > > > > > On 08/09/10 > > > 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > > > dear Sonia, > > > > To > ask > > questions and to judge are very different. No? > > > > I was just > > > > curious if > > the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the > > posting > about > > > lines of > > young men joining the police could be stretched > > > to other moments in > > > near > > times. Somehow from your response it seems > it > > cannot be. You somehow > > > > > accept one as given and the other as > strange. > > Still not sure how you make > > > > > that distinction. > > > > > warmly > > jeebesh > > > > On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or > > > being > > > > > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always > far > > more > > >> > > > complicated and illegible > > > than the judgement > of the > > spectator. > > > ' > > > > > > So > > > the spectator must suspend > judgment, must not > > question? Then why > > > do you > > > > > > question > when the state acts within its > > 'iron frame' inherited from > > > the > > > > ICS? > > > Mysterious motives must also > > drive the one who drives you mad > by > > > > > > telling you > > > he can't find your > > file or that you must > pay a bribe to get a > > > copy > > > of the > > > challan > > which you > thought due to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 07/09/10 > > > 7:21 PM, > > > "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > > > >> The so called iron frame > of > > > > > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > > > officers. > > >> It > was more than > > getting > > > on with life :) > > > > > > On Kashmir i > understand very little > > >> > > to be able to > > > comment. But some > > > > comments seem to mock the people who > > are > > >> trying to > > > > articulate > > > something substantial. A little caution > > about > > >> > interpreting > > > quickly. > > > The maxim of the actors are always > > far > more > > >> complicated and > > > illegible > > > than the judgement of the > > > spectator. > > > > > > On > > >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 > > > PM, SJabbar > wrote: > > > > > >> > > Did they? Or did they do what most > > >> people do, > make > > > their peace > > with > > >> the new > > >> dispensation and get on > with > > >> life. > > >> > > >> The > > > > > point is to understand how it is > that a phenomena like 60,000 > > >> > > >> > > young > > > men > > >> applying > for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what > > people > > >> > > > are > > > >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't > > see the J&K > > > >> > > >> > > > Police as > > >> an abhorrent force? Can it be that > > they > are the relatives of > > > men > > >> > > >> who are > > >> already in the > JKP? > > Can it be that they don't subscribe > > > to > > >> azadi? > > >> And > how > > >> do > > the families of tens of thousands of men who are > > > in > > > >> the JKP and > > >> > > JAKLI see > > >> their kin? > > >> > > >> Another > puzzling matter: > > > we speak > > >> > > of the AFSPA and its revocation > > > >> but the > > >> JKP is not protected > > > by > > the Act. > > >> And one > more thing: the army, that > > >> has > > >> been > > responsible > > > for > the worst > > >> human rights abuses in the last 2 > > >> > > decades is > > > >> not > > > targeted by the > > >> stone-pelters. They continue > > their > work of > > >> > > > patrolling > > >> and cordon & > > >> search operations > as > > if they live on another > > > planet. > > >> The target > > >> is > > > >> always the > > JKP. > > >> > > >> > > >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, > > > > "Jeebesh" > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> agreed. but how > come they all > > > became unquestionable > > nationalists > > >> > > >>> > after > > >>> > > >> 1947? > > >> > > >> On > > > 07-Sep-10, at > > 5:41 PM, > SJabbar wrote: > > >> > > >>> You're > > >> right Jeebesh, and > > >>> > > > > > > most people who were recruited were > > >>> absolutely > > >>> > > >> loyal > to the > > > > > British > > >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the > Congress. > > >>> And > > >> > > why > > >>> > > > just speak of the > > >>> > 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was > > deeply > > >> divided > > >>> > > > and > very > > >>> few at the > > >>> time articulated > > it as a 'war for > > >> > > > > independence.' It > > >>> would be > > >>> foolish to > > > > >>> say > that those who served > > > the > > >> British Empire were closet > > >>> > > > nationalists forced > > >>> into furthering > > > their > > >> careers by > joining > > the > > >>> army or > > >>> ICS. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On > > > >>> > > > 07/09/10 5:22 > > PM, > > >> "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > >>> > > >>>> recruitment > > > > > in > > >>> indian > > >> subcontinent > during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > > >>> > > the > > >>>> > > > british > army > > >>> was > > >> very high. what did this say about > > the > aspiration > > >>> > > > and lives > > >>>> being > > >> led > > >>> at that > time in > > the sub continent. do we > > > even > > >>> count that number > > > >>>> > > >> today > > in > > >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in > > > the sub > > > >>> continent? > > >>> > > >>> > > On > > >> 07-Sep-10, at > > >>>> 2:10 > > > >>> PM, SJabbar > > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > But Gowhar, what happens > > > >> when a man who hitherto > > >>>> > > >>> > > > abhors > > an > > >>>> > institution joins > > >>>> it? What > > >> happens to that extreme > > > > > > emotion > > >>>> > > >>> when the line is crossed, > > >>>> when > > >> the > > > >>>> > > uniform is > > > donned, when the > > >>> 'danda' > > >>>> drops > firmly into his > > > > >> hands? > > >>>> By your > > > logic all those who > joined > > >>> the force > > >>>> > > post-1990 once > > >> abhorred > > > >>>> > > > the > > >>>> institution and now have > > become > > >>> the > > > >>>> oppressors. > > >> And those > > > who pelt > > >>>> > > stones > > >>>> > at the oppressors now want > > >>> to > > >>>> join > > >> the > > > > > same > hated institution only > > >>>> to become > > >>>> future oppressors? > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > Not > > >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men? You > may > > >>>> > > understand this, > > > but > > >> I > > >>> have to > > >>>> > tell you, it's left me > > totally > > >>>> > > > perplexed. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> On > > >> 07/09/10 > > >>> 1:58 > > PM, > > >>>> "gowhar > fazli" > > > > > >> wrote: > > >>>> > > > > >>>>>> I > don't > > >>> like the > > > heading > > >>>> "Why Kashmir > > >>>>> defies > > > > > >> solutions". > > >>>>> > > >>>>> It is > > > in > > >>>>>> > > >>> > these moments that > > the > > >>>> real > > >> desperation and loss > > > >>>>> > > > of self of Kashmiris > > > > >>> as a > > >>>>>> people > > >> > becomes > > >>>> evident. For > > >>>>> > > > > > livelihood they have to > stoop > > >>> before the > > >> same > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > > > > institutions > > >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor > > >>> for > > > >> > > > > > obvious > > >>>> reasons. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> This contradiction > that runs > > through > > > their > > >>> > > >> very selves, > > >>>>> > > > >>>> prevents people > > > > >>>>>> from acquiring a > > > full blown > > > >>> > > >> human-hood. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > There should > > >>>> be no > guilt > > > or > > >>>>>> indignity > > >> associated > > > > >>> with > > > >>>>> acquiring of livelihood > > >>>> > > > through legitimate > > >> > > > means, > > >>>>>> but > > >>> this > > >>>>> is the case one way or > > > the > other, > > > > >>>> for most > > >> people in > > >>>>> > > >>> Kashmir. > > > >>>>>> The boundaries > > > > > between legitimate and > > >>>> > > >> > illegitimate > > >>>>> are > > >>> > > dizzyingly > > > fuzzy > > >>>>>> > because of the manner in which > > >> the > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> selves are > > > >>> > > > split. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If not for any > > > > >>>>>> other but > for > > >> the indignities > > >>>> > > > involved > > >>> in > > >>>>> > > > the status quo that Kashmir > > >> issue > > >>>>>> should be > > > resolved > for > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> good. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> --- On Tue, > > > >> 9/7/10, > > > > > SJabbar > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > From: SJabbar > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: > > >>>> > > >>> > > > >> > > > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies > > > > >>>>>> solutions > > >>>>>> > To: > > > "Sarai" > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, > > >>>>>> > > > September 7, > > 2010, 10:19 > > >>> > > > >> AM > > >>>>>> > > >>>> Printed from > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > > > > Khaki > enemy? 60,000 > > >>>>>> Kashmiris > > >> apply for > > >>> 3,000 > > >>>> > > > police > > >>>>> > > > jobs > > >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep > > >> 7, > > > >>>>>> > > 2010, 01.30am > > >>> > > > IST > > >>>>>> > > >>>> SRINAGAR: > Despite reports of > > >> > > desertions in its > > > ranks > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > >>> and > > >>>>>> threats of > > > > >>>> social > > >>>>>> > > >> > boycott, > > > J&K police has emerged as a big > > >>> > > draw > > >>>>>> > for > > >>>>> > > >> young > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > job hunters in > > > > > >>>>>> employment-starved > > >>> Kashmir. Ignoring > > >> calls > > >>>>>> > > > > by > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> hardliners to > > >>>>>> shun the khaki > > > >>>>>> > > >>> force, > > >> > > nearly > > > 60,000 men applied > > >>>>>> > for > > >>>> less than 3,000 > > >>>>> > > jobs > > >>>>>> in > > >>> > > >> > > > > J&K police -- > > >>>>>> about 200 applicants > > for > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > one > > > constable's > > >>> > > >> post. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The > > > applications piled up over the last > > > few > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > >> > > months, > > >>>>> about > > >>>>>> the time when the > > >>>>>> > > > > situation in the > > Valley > > >>> > > >> appeared > > >>>> to > > >>>>>> be > spinning out > > >>>>> > > > of > > > > >>>>>> control with the > > >> cops > > > >>>>>> > > >>> particularly being > > >>>> > > at > > > the > > >>>>>> > receiving end of public > > >>>>> > > >> wrath. > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > >>> J&K > > > police DG Kuldeep > > >>>> Khoda said > > >>>>>> the > > >> > > > department > > >>>>> has > > >>>>>> > > > received > > >>> 58,975 > > >>>>>> > > > applications, > > >>>> against > > >> 2,786 > > >>>>>> > > > vacancies > across the > > > > >>>>> > > >>> Valley. > > >>>>>> "The response > > >> > > > > from > > >>>>>> > > >>>> (the > > worst-hit) > > >>>>>> Srinagar and > > >>> > Budgam districts > > > was > > >> even > > > > >>>>> more > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > heartening," he > > >>>>>> said. > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > > > > "We've > received > > >> 2,860 applications, against > > >>>> 529 > > >>>>> posts > > > > > >>>>>> > > > in > > >>> > > >> Srinagar > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> district, > while 8053 > > against 283 in > > >>>> > > > Budgam," he > > >>> > > >> > said. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Lack > > of jobs > > >>>>>> has been a big spur > > > > for the > > >>>> > > >> protests > > > > >>>>> > > >>> that > > >>>>>> > brought thousands > > > of > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> young > > educated > > >> men > on to the > > >>>> > > >>> streets. > > > Official > > >>>>> > > estimates > of > > >>>>>> the > > >> number > > >>>>>> of > > >>>>>> unemployed > > > in > > > > > >>> the > > >>>> Valley stands at 3 > > >> lakhs. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > Khoda told > > > > >>>>>> > > > reporters the > > >>> department held > > > >>>> > > >> a > > >>>>> > > recruitment > > >>>>>> rally in > > > Baramulla > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> district > > in July > > >> and was > > >>>> > overwhelmed with > > > the > > >>>>> response. > > > > >>>>>> "Over > > >>> > 8,000 > > >>>>>> > > >> people > > >>>>>> turned up > > > for > > > > >>>> 412 > posts despite turmoil in the > > >>>>> > > >>> > > >> district," > > >>>>>> > > > > > > he > > >>>>>> said, and added > > >>>>>> > > >>>> that even > stone-pelters > > >>> > > > > >> attended > > > the rally. He said > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>> department > > > > >>>> was > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > > mulling > > >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives > > > > >>>>>> across > > > >>>>> > > > the > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> Valley, > > >>> > > particularly > > > >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > > > to end > > >>>>>> > > >> > > the > > > >>>> > > >>> unrest. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > > > > reports > > on desertions > > >> and > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > insubordination. He > > > > > claimed > > >>>>>> no police personnel > > >> > had quit since > > >>>> > > >>> > > mid-June > > >>>>>> > > > when > > >>>>> > Kashmir > > >>>>>> erupted in > > >> anger > > > > >>>>>> against the > > > >>> > > > alleged > > >>>> staged encounter > > >>>>>> of > > three > > >> > north > > >>>>> Kashmir > > >>>>>> > > > youth and > > >>> a > > >>>>>> > > > 17-year-old > > >>>> boy's killing > > >> in > > >>>>>> police > > > action. > Over 60 > > > > >>>>> > > >>> people, > > >>>>>> including > > >> women > > > >>>>>> > > >>>> and > > > > > children, have > > >>>>>> died in police > > >>> > firing on > > >>>>> > > >> > > protesters > > >>>>>> > > > since > > >>>> > then. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> State > > >>>>>> > > government > > >>> sources > > > >> said J&K > > > CM Omar > > >>>>> Abdullah, > > >>>> > > who > > >>>>>> > has called for a > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > proactive > > > approach including the phased > > >>>> revocation of > > >>>>> > > >> > > > > the > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> controversial > > >>>>>> Armed Forces > Special Forces > > > > > Act > > >>>> to > > >> deal with > > >>> street > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> protests, has > > ordered > > >>>>>> > > > creation of > more > > >> police > > >>>> jobs to > > >>> induct > > youth from > > >>>>>> > > > > the > > >>>>>> troubled > > >> areas. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Meanwhile, > in > > >>>> its > > >>> ongoing > > > drive to reach out > > >>>>>> > > >> > to > > the > > >>>>> people, > > >>>>>> Kashmir > > > range > > >>>>>> > > >>> > IGP > > >>>> > > Kashmir, S M Sahai, > > >> attended > > >>>>>> > > > > police-public > > >>>>> meetings > > in > > >>>>>> > > >>> Ganderbal > > >>>> > and > > >>>>>> > > >> Budgam > > > districts. > > "At > > >>>>>> Ganderbal > District Police > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > Lines, > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>> > > >> > around 300 people > > >>>>>> including senior > > >>>>>> > > > citizens > > > and > > >>> sarpanchs > > >>>> > > >> participated," > > >>>>> a > > >>>>>> > police > > > > > spokesman > > >>>>>> said. > > >>>>>> "Sahai > > >>> > > >> > assured the > > >>>> people > > that > > > police will > > >>>>> adopt > > > >>>>>> maximum > > >>> > > >> restraint > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> while > > > > dealing > > >>>> with law and order > > >>> > > >> > > situations." > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > >>>>>> > > >>> reader-list: an > > > > > > open > > >>>> > > >> discussion > > >>>>>> list on media and the > > > >>>>>> city. > > > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > > Critiques & > > >>>> > > >> > Collaborations > > >>>>>> To > > >>>>>> > > subscribe: send an email > > > > to > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >>>>>> with > subscribe > > >>>>>> in > > > the > > subject > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > header. > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>>>> > > List > > > >> > > > archive: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > >>>> > > >> reader-list: an > > > > > open > > >>>> > > >>> discussion > > > >>>>>> list on media and the city. > > >>>> > > >> > > Critiques > > > & > Collaborations > > >>>> > > >>> To > > >>>> subscribe: send an > > > > >>>>>> > email to > > >> > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>> subscribe > > > > > >>>> in the subject > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > header. > > >>>> To > unsubscribe: > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> List > > >> > > > > > > archive: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > >>>> > > reader-list: an open > > > >>> > > >> > > > discussion > > >>>> list on media and the > > city. > > > >>>> Critiques & > > > Collaborations > > >>>> > > >> To > > >>> subscribe: > > > send > > >>>> an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > >>>> > > >> > > subscribe > > >>> in the subject > > >>>> > > > header. > > > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> > > List > > > > archive: > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > __________________________ > > >>>> _______________ > > >>> > reader-list: an > > > > > open > > >>> > > >> discussion list on media and > the > > >>>> city. > > >>> Critiques > > & > > > Collaborations > > >>> > > >> > To > > >>> subscribe: send an email to > > >>>> > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in > > >>> the subject > > > header. > > >>> > > > To > > >>>> unsubscribe: > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> List > > > > archive: > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ______________________ > > >>> ___________________ > > > >> > > reader-list: an open > > >> > > > discussion list on media and the > > > >>> city. > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > > > To > > >> > subscribe: send an email to > > > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in > > >> the subject > > header. > > >> To > > >>> unsubscribe: > > > >> > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List > archive: > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an > open > > > > > discussion > > >> list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques > & Collaborations > > > > >> To > > > subscribe: send > > >> an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > >> subscribe > > > in the subject > > > >> header. > > >> To unsubscribe: > > > > >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List > > archive: > > > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________ > > >> _______________ > > > reader-list: > an open > > > > > discussion list on media and the > > >> city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To > > > subscribe: send an email to > > > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in > > > the subject > header. > > > To > > >> unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > >> > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ > > > ___________________ > > reader-list: an > open > > discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > Critiques & > Collaborations > > To > > subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > > in the subject header. > > > To > > > unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open > discussion > > list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & > > Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & > Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Wed Sep 8 17:34:35 2010 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 05:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Siddharth Varadarajan on the injustice of an award to Neeta Sharma Message-ID: <687008.7445.qm@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> rakesh   seeing your snide remark about praveen swami, may i ask, what exactly is your problem with praveen swami   i too had my own preceptions about him until i interacted a bit with him and saw him interact extensively with some of the most strident anti-india and pro-kashmir-azadi voices in the facebook group Moderate Voice of Jammu, Kashmir & Ladakh   after the intitial barbs directed at him (not unlike yours) were done with, when people got around to seriously interacting and conversing with him there was respect shown towards him even when people strongly disagreed with him   here is a sampling http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=137304319631342#!/topic.php?uid=137304319631342&topic=146   i suggest that you too find an opportunity to converse with him    .......... aalok aima   From shahzulf at yahoo.com Wed Sep 8 18:29:46 2010 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 05:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Workshop on Flood Disaster in Sindh: Transparent Body Demanded for Rehabilitation Message-ID: <320216.18475.qm@web38801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Transparent Body Demanded for Rehabilitation Bureau Report Daily Dawn, Karachi September 8, 2010 HYDERABAD, Sept 7: Civil society organizations of Sindh have demanded appointment of a transparent body to initiate rehabilitation of flood survivors. Activists accused the government of negligence which caused displacement in 19 districts of the province. The demand was made at a consultative workshop on “Flood Disaster in Sindh: Damages, Needs and Issues”, jointly organized on Monday by the Institute for Social Movements(ISM) and Strengthening Participatory Organization (SPO). The activists said that the flood had badly affected agriculture, irrigation, fisheries, livestock and poultry sectors that faced a loss of Rs369 billion. The damage to infrastructure is irreparable and its rehabilitation needs huge investments. Head of the Centre for Civil Society and Peace (CPCS) Jami Chandio stressed the need for formation of a transparent commission comprising honest government officials, professionals and civil society members to conduct scientific assessment and plan to initiate rehabilitation. Presiding over the workshop, Mr Chandio appealed to well-off Sindhi people to extend their help, adopt one village or donate to rebuild the ruined villages equipped with basic facilities. In his presentation, Assistant Prof Fatah Mari of the University of Agriculture Tando Jam portrayed the scenario of losses to agriculture, livestock, fisheries and poultry sectors. He said that standing crops had been affected badly, and Rabi and Kharif crops would suffer irreparable losses and farmers would get low yield. Only in northern districts more than 250,000 cattle heads died and in others districts farmers sold their livestock at low prices to bear expenditure for their shifting to safe places. It needed further assessment because the loss could be more than being declared by the government, he said. Regional head of the SPO Mustafa Baloch said in his introductory remarks that floods had brought more challenges for the people of Sindh; they would have to face economical, social, moral and ethical challenges and anarchy. “We cannot imagine now; when floodwater recedes, people, who have lost their belongings but saved their arms, will create anarchy. In this situation, there is a dire need to initiate skill development programs to save our youth,” Mr Baloch said, adding that poverty and starvation would also create disorder in society. “At this time all the sections of society should come forward to play their due role to avoid this disorder.” He said that the disaster had affected tribal rivals equally, compelling them to eat from the same plate, but there were fears that poverty and hunger would breed new animosities. Suleman G Abro said this all happened because of the negligence of the government. “We already pointed out that these district disaster management authorities (DDMA) did not have resources. These were unequipped that is why they could not face the pressure of water resulting in mass migration,” Mr Abro said. Zulfiqar Shah, executive director of the ISM-Pakistan, said that they mobilized resources at this critical juncture because the entire Sindhi society was in panic. Women rights activist Amar Sindhu, Hashim Leghari, Abrar Qazi, and Hafeez Kumbhar also participated in the discussion.   Link: http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/national/transparent-body-demanded-for-rehabilitation-890 From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 19:41:41 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 19:41:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: May be there are some who believed that kashmir is about to experience some revolution, but the days of revolution are gone, we may know for all the times to come. something different is happening at the root, which may be giving a wrong signal to all of us. It may look peaceful, but will be misleading at the same time. How, true, that the present outbursts in the valley were not organizied by any leader, proves the point that some deep anger is simmering... which is carried forward in some other forms within.... Indeed, it seems that the entire valley was painted with one brush by the Media here. but there are many people who do their job, and hate their job at the same time. Personally, i hate my job, but i had to do it, it is my need... . My idea is most of the people dont love their job, but are doing it..... exception to that is those who manipulate, and eat the cake as well. Police excesses have been always there, be it punjab, Chattisgarh, north east, kashmir, etc... nothing new. For example, do you think an ordinary Army jawan has some commitment or love for India and is protecting the nation for that love in kashmir. No. it is a job, like any other job, and we have unethical malpractices going on under our very nose in every sector, be it army, police, or hospital, that is abnormality Most of the times, jobs cause hidden misery, and we see the reflection of that abnormality in our society at every level. People applying for police jobs is not abnormality, but the behaviour of entire establishment is abnormal: the way it is dealing with its subjects. Dynasty rule is one, and extreme lust for power is another.... etc love is On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:56 PM, SJabbar wrote: > You seem to be the one offering all kinds of explanations for what I > consider normal activity.  It only appears abnormal to me in the context of > the current phase of the azadi movement that specifically targets the J&K > Police and not the Indian Army. > > > On 08/09/10 4:51 PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > >> in any case > the poeple in kashmir are free to seek govt jobs > irrespective of >> politics that is plaguing the valley since 1947 > > or? you  still see it >> differntly? > > love > is > > On 9/8/10, SJabbar wrote: >> Not >> sure about the accuracy of your claim of Nehru 'hounding' the leftists >> in >> Kashmir. It was the Left faction in the NC that turned against Sheikh >> >> Abdullah in 1952 when they thought he was hobnobbing with the Americans. You >> >> can read both Josef Korbel's account as well as N.N Raina on what the >> >> Communists thought of Sh. Abdullah. And I really fail to see the connection. >> >> I'd blame Nehru less and our present culture of globalization and glitz and >> >> slick ads on TV more for the decline of interest in crafts and agriculture >> >> and the false glamour attached to white collar jobs. >> >> >> On 08/09/10 4:16 >> PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: >> >> > Dear Sonia >> i was >> casually surfing about agriculture, and found this >> > interesting >> piece on >> Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite >> > slippery >> to compare >> it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are >> > some >> historical >> reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant. >> >> >> > People are not >> happy with rural life, because of number of reasons. >> The crafts >> > people >> are not adequately paid for their skills and they >> naturally shun >> > >> traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their >> own systems which >> >> > sutain... >> >> but the jobs are  jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as >> much >> > a >> carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for >> the >> easier >> > paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what >> must >> have happened >> > in Kurdistan, where they are just little >> traditional >> farming left... >> >> the >> > young boys seeking jobs ( police etc >> )in Kashmir are because we >> traditionally >> > have never respected the >> worker, but a govt servant, >> who manages to find a >> > healthy wealthy and >> beautiful bride easily in >> comparision to non govt >> > servant. >> >> There is >> a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans >> > in >> Kashmir hounded >> Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left >> poltics >> > during 40 to >> 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress >> policy of india >> > and >> kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was >> a leftists ). even if we >> >> > forget about the histroy how centre humilated >> Sheikh abdullah time and >> > >> again... >> >> The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it >> >> > does >> not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian >> >> govt >> > been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have >> >> looked  down >> > upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner, >> but >> that is >> > unlikely. >> >> Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West >> Bengal who >> > experienced >> some land reforms... rest of india was mute >> spectator to >> > brilliant >> changes that were happening under the broad day >> light.... Shame >> > to >> Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which >> actually was meant >> > to >> gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. >> That thing >> > still >> continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, >> who joined >> hands >> > in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual >> nature of >> kashmir >> > issue. >> >> the discussion can go on >>  will come >> back >> >> hugs >> love >> is >> >> the link >> > below >> >> http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml >> >> Another >> > >> sociological study states: >> >> "The share of agriculture in gross domestic >> > >> product sank [from 1962 to >> 1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even >> though >> > the number of those >> employed on the land has only dropped >> slightly (from 9.7 >> > to 9.0 >> million). A result of this development was >> sinking incomes for >> > those >> working in agriculture and a subsequent >> migration from the >> countryside. >> > Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty >> towns) sprang up." >> [4] >> >> None of this >> > amounts to the formation of a >> Kurdish bourgeoisie as the >> backbone of an >> > independent nation-state, but >> rather signals the >> integration of the Kurdish >> > people into the Turkish >> and international >> working class. The amalgamation of >> > Turkish and Kurdish >> workers by >> means of a common socialist programme lay >> > within reach. The >> >> perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have >> > opened up >> >> favourable prospects for the structural development of the >> > backward >> >> mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the >> > Kurdish >> >> minority. >> >> On the other hand, the project of forming an independent >> > >> nation-state >> was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. >> In >> > the >> beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic >> social >> basis >> > for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who >> might >> have hoped to >> > find careers and posts in such a state >> apparatus. >> >> The PKK turned its back on >> > the urban working class. >> Following its >> foundation in 1979-80, it organised a >> > few battles and >> skirmishes with >> the big landowners, which were followed by the >> > peasants >> with a certain >> sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK >> > remained >> limited as >> they renounced a radical programme to liberate the >> > peasants, >> so as not >> to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big >> > >> landowners. Their >> bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), >> rival >> > Kurdish >> organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear >> and >> > terror >> among ordinary people. >> >> Meanwhile, the social democratic >> government of >> > Bulent Ecevit was >> deliberately raking up national >> chauvinism and religious >> > differences >> in order to gain control of the >> militant workers movement. The >> > 1974 >> Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred >> during Ecevit's period in office. >> He >> > entered a coalition with the >> Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of >> the >> > present Welfare Party) and >> introduced the state recognition of >> Islamic >> > schools. Once he had >> engineered clashes in this way, in 1978 >> Ecevit >> > implemented military rule >> in the Kurdish provinces. At this >> time, there were >> > around a million >> workers and students who were >> members of organisations >> > claiming to be >> socialist. >> >> >> >> On 9/8/10, SJabbar >> > wrote: >> > >> Not at all.  Please see my reply to Inder Salim. >> > >> > >> > On 08/09/10 >> > >> 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: >> > >> > > dear Sonia, >> > >> > To >> ask >> > questions and to judge are very different. No? >> > >> > I was just >> > >> > curious if >> > the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the >> > posting >> about >> > > lines of >> > young men joining the police could be stretched >> > >> to other moments in >> > > near >> > times. Somehow from your response it seems >> it >> > cannot be. You somehow >> > > >> > accept one as given and the other as >> strange. >> > Still not sure how you make >> > >> > > that distinction. >> > >> > >> warmly >> > jeebesh >> > >> > On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar >> > wrote: >> > >> >> > > >> > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or >> > >> being >> > > >> > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always >> far >> > more >> > >> >> > > complicated and illegible >> > > than the judgement >> of the >> > spectator. >> > > ' >> > > >> > > So >> > > the spectator must suspend >> judgment, must not >> > question?  Then why >> > > do you >> > > >> > > question >> when the state acts within its >> > 'iron frame' inherited from >> > > the >> > > >> ICS? >> > > Mysterious motives must also >> > drive the one who drives you mad >> by >> > > >> > > telling you >> > > he can't find your >> > file or that you must >> pay a bribe to get a >> > > copy >> > > of the >> > > challan >> > which you >> thought due to you. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On 07/09/10 >> > > 7:21 PM, >> >> > "Jeebesh" wrote: >> > > >> > >> The so called iron frame >> of >> > > >> > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS >> > > officers. >> > >> It >> was more than >> > getting >> > > on with life :) >> > > >> > > On Kashmir i >> understand very little >> > >> >> > to be able to >> > > comment. But some >> > > >> comments seem to mock the people who >> > are >> > >> trying to >> > > >> articulate >> > > something substantial. A little caution >> > about >> > >> >> interpreting >> > > quickly. >> > > The maxim of the actors are always >> > far >> more >> > >> complicated and >> > > illegible >> > > than the judgement of the >> >> > spectator. >> > > >> > > On >> > >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 >> > > PM, SJabbar >> wrote: >> > > >> > >> >> > Did they?  Or did they do what most >> > >> people do, >> make >> > > their peace >> > with >> > >> the new >> > >> dispensation and get on >> with >> > >> life. >> > >> >> > >> The >> > >> > > point is to understand how it is >> that a phenomena like 60,000 >> > >> >> > >> >> > young >> > > men >> > >> applying >> for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what >> > people >> > >> >> > > are >> > >> >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't >> > see the J&K >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > Police as >> > >> an abhorrent force?  Can it be that >> > they >> are the relatives of >> > > men >> > >> >> > >> who are >> > >> already in the >> JKP? >> > Can it be that they don't subscribe >> > > to >> > >> azadi? >> > >> And >> how >> > >> do >> > the families of tens of thousands of men who are >> > > in >> >> > >> the JKP and >> > >> >> > JAKLI see >> > >> their kin? >> > >> >> > >> Another >> puzzling matter: >> > > we speak >> > >> >> > of the AFSPA and its revocation >> > >> >> but the >> > >> JKP is not protected >> > > by >> > the Act. >> > >> And one >> more thing: the army, that >> > >> has >> > >> been >> > responsible >> > > for >> the worst >> > >> human rights abuses in the last 2 >> > >> >> > decades is >> > >> >> not >> > > targeted by the >> > >> stone-pelters.  They continue >> > their >> work of >> > >> >> > > patrolling >> > >> and cordon & >> > >> search operations >> as >> > if they live on another >> > > planet. >> > >> The target >> > >> is >> > >> >> always the >> > JKP. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, >> > > >> "Jeebesh" >> > >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> agreed. but how >> come they all >> > > became unquestionable >> > nationalists >> > >> >> > >>> >> after >> > >>> >> > >> 1947? >> > >> >> > >> On >> > > 07-Sep-10, at >> > 5:41 PM, >> SJabbar wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> You're >> > >> right Jeebesh, and >> > >>> >> > > >> >> > most people who were recruited were >> > >>> absolutely >> > >>> >> > >> loyal >> to the >> > >> > > British >> > >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the >> Congress. >> > >>> And >> > >> >> > why >> > >>> >> > > just speak of the >> > >>> >> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was >> > deeply >> > >> divided >> > >>> >> > > and >> very >> > >>> few at the >> > >>> time articulated >> > it as a 'war for >> > >> >> >> > > independence.'  It >> > >>> would be >> > >>> foolish to >> > >> > >>> say >> that those who served >> > > the >> > >> British Empire were closet >> > >>> >> > >> nationalists forced >> > >>> into furthering >> > > their >> > >> careers by >> joining >> > the >> > >>> army or >> > >>> ICS. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On >> > >> >>> >> > > 07/09/10 5:22 >> > PM, >> > >> "Jeebesh" wrote: >> >> > >>> >> > >>>> recruitment >> > > >> > in >> > >>> indian >> > >> subcontinent >> during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in >> > >>> >> > the >> > >>>> >> > > british >> army >> > >>> was >> > >> very high. what did this say about >> > the >> aspiration >> > >>> >> > > and lives >> > >>>> being >> > >> led >> > >>> at that >> time in >> > the sub continent. do we >> > > even >> > >>> count that number >> > >> >>>> >> > >> today >> > in >> > >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in >> > > the sub >> >> > >>> continent? >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On >> > >> 07-Sep-10, at >> > >>>> 2:10 >> > >> >>> PM, SJabbar >> > > wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> >> > But Gowhar, what happens >> > >> >> when a man who hitherto >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > > abhors >> > an >> > >>>> >> institution joins >> > >>>> it? What >> > >> happens to that extreme >> > > >> > >> emotion >> > >>>> >> > >>> when the line is crossed, >> > >>>> when >> > >> the >> >> > >>>> >> > uniform is >> > > donned, when the >> > >>> 'danda' >> > >>>> drops >> firmly into his >> > >> > >> hands? >> > >>>> By your >> > > logic all those who >> joined >> > >>> the force >> > >>>> >> > post-1990 once >> > >> abhorred >> > >> >>>> >> > > the >> > >>>> institution and now have >> > become >> > >>> the >> > >> >>>> oppressors. >> > >> And those >> > > who pelt >> > >>>> >> > stones >> > >>>> >> at the oppressors now want >> > >>> to >> > >>>> join >> > >> the >> > > >> > same >> hated institution only >> > >>>> to become >> > >>>> future oppressors? >> > >> >>> >> > >> > >> >> > > Not >> > >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men?  You >> may >> > >>>> >> > understand this, >> > > but >> > >> I >> > >>> have to >> > >>>> >> tell you, it's left me >> > totally >> > >>>> >> > > perplexed. >> > >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >>>> On >> > >> 07/09/10 >> > >>> 1:58 >> > PM, >> > >>>> "gowhar >> fazli" >> > > >> > >> wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>>>> I >> don't >> > >>> like the >> > > heading >> > >>>> "Why Kashmir >> > >>>>> defies >> >> > >> > >> solutions". >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> It is >> > > in >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> >> these moments that >> > the >> > >>>> real >> > >> desperation and loss >> > >> >>>>> >> > > of self of Kashmiris >> > >> > >>> as a >> > >>>>>> people >> > >> >> becomes >> > >>>> evident. For >> > >>>>> >> > > >> > livelihood they have to >> stoop >> > >>> before the >> > >> same >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > > >> > >> institutions >> > >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor >> > >>> for >> > >> >> >> > > >> > obvious >> > >>>> reasons. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> This contradiction >> that runs >> > through >> > > their >> > >>> >> > >> very selves, >> > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> prevents people >> > >> > >>>>>> from acquiring a >> > > full blown >> > >> >>> >> > >> human-hood. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > There should >> > >>>> be no >> guilt >> > > or >> > >>>>>> indignity >> > >> associated >> > >> > >>> with >> > >> >>>>> acquiring of livelihood >> > >>>> >> > > through legitimate >> > >> >> > >> means, >> > >>>>>> but >> > >>> this >> > >>>>> is the case one way or >> > > the >> other, >> > >> > >>>> for most >> > >> people in >> > >>>>> >> > >>> Kashmir. >> > >> >>>>>> The boundaries >> > >> > > between legitimate and >> > >>>> >> > >> >> illegitimate >> > >>>>> are >> > >>> >> > dizzyingly >> > > fuzzy >> > >>>>>> >> because of the manner in which >> > >> the >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> selves are >> >> > >>> >> > > split. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> If not for any >> > >> > >>>>>> other but >> for >> > >> the indignities >> > >>>> >> > > involved >> > >>> in >> > >>>>> >> > >> the status quo that Kashmir >> > >> issue >> > >>>>>> should be >> > > resolved >> for >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> good. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> --- On Tue, >> > >> >> 9/7/10, >> > > >> > SJabbar >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >>> wrote: >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >> >> > > From: SJabbar >> > >> >>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>> Subject: >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> >> > > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies >> > >> > >>>>>> solutions >> > >>>>>> >> To: >> > > "Sarai" >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, >> > >>>>>> >> > > September 7, >> > 2010, 10:19 >> > >>> >> >> > >> AM >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> Printed from >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > > >> > Khaki >> enemy? 60,000 >> > >>>>>> Kashmiris >> > >> apply for >> > >>> 3,000 >> > >>>> >> > >> police >> > >>>>> >> > > jobs >> > >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep >> > >> 7, >> > >> >>>>>> >> > 2010, 01.30am >> > >>> >> > > IST >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> SRINAGAR: >> Despite reports of >> > >> >> > desertions in its >> > > ranks >> > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> >> > >>> and >> > >>>>>> threats of >> > >> > >>>> social >> > >>>>>> >> > >> >> boycott, >> > > J&K police has emerged as a big >> > >>> >> > draw >> > >>>>>> >> for >> > >>>>> >> > >> young >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > > job hunters in >> > >> > >> >>>>>> employment-starved >> > >>> Kashmir. Ignoring >> > >> calls >> > >>>>>> >> >> > > by >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> hardliners to >> > >>>>>> shun the khaki >> > >> >>>>>> >> > >>> force, >> > >> >> > nearly >> > > 60,000 men applied >> > >>>>>> >> for >> > >>>> less than 3,000 >> > >>>>> >> > jobs >> > >>>>>> in >> > >>> >> > >> >> >> > > J&K police -- >> > >>>>>> about 200 applicants >> > for >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> one >> > > constable's >> > >>> >> > >> post. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> The >> > >> applications piled up over the last >> > > few >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> >> > months, >> > >>>>> about >> > >>>>>> the time when the >> > >>>>>> >> > > >> situation in the >> > Valley >> > >>> >> > >> appeared >> > >>>> to >> > >>>>>> be >> spinning out >> > >>>>> >> > > of >> > >> > >>>>>> control with the >> > >> cops >> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> particularly being >> > >>>> >> > at >> > > the >> > >>>>>> >> receiving end of public >> > >>>>> >> > >> wrath. >> > >>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>> >> > >> >>> J&K >> > > police DG Kuldeep >> > >>>> Khoda said >> > >>>>>> the >> > >> >> > >> department >> > >>>>> has >> > >>>>>> >> > > received >> > >>> 58,975 >> > >>>>>> >> >> > applications, >> > >>>> against >> > >> 2,786 >> > >>>>>> >> > > vacancies >> across the >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>> Valley. >> > >>>>>> "The response >> > >> >> > > >> from >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> (the >> > worst-hit) >> > >>>>>> Srinagar and >> > >>> >> Budgam districts >> > > was >> > >> even >> > >> > >>>>> more >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> heartening," he >> > >>>>>> said. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> >> > > >> > "We've >> received >> > >> 2,860 applications, against >> > >>>> 529 >> > >>>>> posts >> > >> >> > >>>>>> >> > > in >> > >>> >> > >> Srinagar >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> district, >> while 8053 >> > against 283 in >> > >>>> >> > > Budgam," he >> > >>> >> > >> >> said. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> Lack >> > of jobs >> > >>>>>> has been a big spur >> >> > > for the >> > >>>> >> > >> protests >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>> that >> > >>>>>> >> brought thousands >> > > of >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> young >> > educated >> > >> men >> on to the >> > >>>> >> > >>> streets. >> > > Official >> > >>>>> >> > estimates >> of >> > >>>>>> the >> > >> number >> > >>>>>> of >> > >>>>>> unemployed >> > > in >> >> > >> > >>> the >> > >>>> Valley stands at 3 >> > >> lakhs. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> Khoda told >> > >> > >>>>>> >> > > reporters the >> > >>> department held >> > >> >>>> >> > >> a >> > >>>>> >> > recruitment >> > >>>>>> rally in >> > > Baramulla >> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> district >> > in July >> > >> and was >> > >>>> >> overwhelmed with >> > > the >> > >>>>> response. >> > >> > >>>>>> "Over >> > >>> >> 8,000 >> > >>>>>> >> > >> people >> > >>>>>> turned up >> > > for >> > >> > >>>> 412 >> posts despite turmoil in the >> > >>>>> >> > >>> >> > >> district," >> > >>>>>> >> >> > >> > > he >> > >>>>>> said, and added >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> that even >> stone-pelters >> > >>> >> > >> > >> attended >> > > the rally. He said >> > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>>> the >> > >>>>>> department >> > >> > >>>> was >> > >>>>>> >> > >> >> > > >> mulling >> > >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives >> > >> > >>>>>> across >> > >> >>>>> >> > > the >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> Valley, >> > >>> >> > particularly >> >> > >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area >> > > to end >> > >>>>>> >> > >> >> > the >> >> > >>>> >> > >>> unrest. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> The top cop rubbished >> > > >> reports >> > on desertions >> > >> and >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> insubordination. He >> > > >> > claimed >> > >>>>>> no police personnel >> > >> >> had quit since >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > mid-June >> > >>>>>> >> > > when >> > >>>>> >> Kashmir >> > >>>>>> erupted in >> > >> anger >> > >> > >>>>>> against the >> > >> >>> >> > > alleged >> > >>>> staged encounter >> > >>>>>> of >> > three >> > >> >> north >> > >>>>> Kashmir >> > >>>>>> >> > > youth and >> > >>> a >> > >>>>>> >> > >> 17-year-old >> > >>>> boy's killing >> > >> in >> > >>>>>> police >> > > action. >> Over 60 >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>> people, >> > >>>>>> including >> > >> women >> > >> >>>>>> >> > >>>> and >> > > >> > children, have >> > >>>>>> died in police >> > >>> >> firing on >> > >>>>> >> > >> >> > protesters >> > >>>>>> >> > > since >> > >>>> >> then. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> State >> > >>>>>> >> > government >> > >>> sources >> >> > >> said J&K >> > > CM Omar >> > >>>>> Abdullah, >> > >>>> >> > who >> > >>>>>> >> has called for a >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > proactive >> > >> approach including the phased >> > >>>> revocation of >> > >>>>> >> > >> >> > > >> the >> > >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> controversial >> > >>>>>> Armed Forces >> Special Forces >> > > >> > Act >> > >>>> to >> > >> deal with >> > >>> street >> > >> >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> protests, has >> > ordered >> > >>>>>> >> > > creation of >> more >> > >> police >> > >>>> jobs to >> > >>> induct >> > youth from >> > >>>>>> >> >> > > the >> > >>>>>> troubled >> > >> areas. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > Meanwhile, >> in >> > >>>> its >> > >>> ongoing >> > > drive to reach out >> > >>>>>> >> > >> >> to >> > the >> > >>>>> people, >> > >>>>>> Kashmir >> > > range >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> >> IGP >> > >>>> >> > Kashmir, S M Sahai, >> > >> attended >> > >>>>>> >> > > >> police-public >> > >>>>> meetings >> > in >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> Ganderbal >> > >>>> >> and >> > >>>>>> >> > >> Budgam >> > > districts. >> > "At >> > >>>>>> Ganderbal >> District Police >> > >>>>> >> > >>> >> > > Lines, >> > >>>>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > >> >> around 300 people >> > >>>>>> including senior >> > >>>>>> >> > > citizens >> > >> and >> > >>> sarpanchs >> > >>>> >> > >> participated," >> > >>>>> a >> > >>>>>> >> police >> > > >> > spokesman >> > >>>>>> said. >> > >>>>>> "Sahai >> > >>> >> > >> >> assured the >> > >>>> people >> > that >> > > police will >> > >>>>> adopt >> > >> >>>>>> maximum >> > >>> >> > >> restraint >> > >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> while >> > > >> dealing >> > >>>> with law and order >> > >>> >> > >> >> > situations." >> > >> >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> reader-list: an >> >> > > >> > open >> > >>>> >> > >> discussion >> > >>>>>> list on media and the >> > >> >>>>>> city. >> > >> > >>>>>> >> > >>> >> > > Critiques & >> > >>>> >> > >> >> Collaborations >> > >>>>>> To >> > >>>>>> >> > subscribe: send an email >> > > >> to >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > >>>>>> with >> subscribe >> > >>>>>> in >> > > the >> > subject >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> header. >> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe: >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >>>>>> >> > List >> > >> >> >> > > archive: >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >>>>> >> > >>> >> > > > >> > >>>> >> > >> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> >>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > >>>> >> > >> reader-list: an >> > > >> > open >> > >>>> >> > >>> discussion >> > >> >>>>>> list on media and the city. >> > >>>> >> > >> >> > Critiques >> > > & >> Collaborations >> > >>>> >> > >>> To >> > >>>> subscribe: send an >> > >> > >>>>>> >> email to >> > >> >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >>> subscribe >> >> > >> > >>>> in the subject >> > >>>>>> >> > >> >> > > header. >> > >>>> To >> unsubscribe: >> > >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >>>> List >> > >> >> > >> > >> > archive: >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> _________________________________________ >> > >>>> >> > reader-list: an open >> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > discussion >> > >>>> list on media and the >> > city. >> > >> >>>> Critiques & >> > > Collaborations >> > >>>> >> > >> To >> > >>> subscribe: >> >> > send >> > >>>> an email to >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >> > subscribe >> > >>> in the subject >> > >>>> >> > > header. >> > >> >>>> To unsubscribe: >> > >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >>>> >> > List >> > > >> archive: >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> >> > > >> > __________________________ >> > >>>> _______________ >> > >>> >> reader-list: an >> > > >> > open >> > >>> >> > >> discussion list on media and >> the >> > >>>> city. >> > >>> Critiques >> > & >> > > Collaborations >> > >>> >> > >> >> To >> > >>> subscribe: send an email to >> > >>>> >> > >> > > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >> subscribe in >> > >>> the subject >> > >> header. >> > >>> >> > > To >> > >>>> unsubscribe: >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >>> List >> > > >> archive: >> > >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >>> >> > >> > >>> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > ______________________ >> > >>> ___________________ >> > >> >> >> > reader-list: an open >> > >> >> > > discussion list on media and the >> > >> >>> city. >> > >> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> >> > > To >> > >> >> subscribe: send an email to >> > >> > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >> > subscribe in >> > >> the subject >> > header. >> > >> To >> > >>> unsubscribe: >> >> > >> >> > > >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> List >> archive: >> > >>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > _________________________________________ >> > >> reader-list: an >> open >> > > >> > discussion >> > >> list on media and the city. >> > >> Critiques >> & Collaborations >> > >> > >> To >> > > subscribe: send >> > >> an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > >> subscribe >> > > in the subject >> >> > >> header. >> > >> To unsubscribe: >> > >> > >> >> > > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> List >> > archive: >> >> > >> >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> > > __________________________ >> > >> _______________ >> > > reader-list: >> an open >> > > >> > discussion list on media and the >> > >> city. >> > > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > > >> > To >> > > subscribe: send an email to >> > >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in >> > > the subject >> header. >> > > To >> > >> unsubscribe: >> > > >> > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > >> >> >> > > >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > ______________________ >> > > ___________________ >> > reader-list: an >> open >> > discussion list on media and the >> > > city. >> > Critiques & >> Collaborations >> > To >> > subscribe: send an email to >> > > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > >> To >> > > unsubscribe: >> > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> > > >> >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open >> discussion >> > list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> To subscribe: send >> > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject >> > header. >> > To unsubscribe: >> > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> > >> >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open >> discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & >> > Collaborations >> To >> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: >> > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > > > -- >> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & >> Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kaksanjay at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 20:50:17 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:50:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=91Kashmir=92s_struggle_and_the_in?= =?windows-1252?q?justices=92?= Message-ID: ‘Kashmir’s struggle and the injustices’ appeared in the Dawn, Karachi this week. http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/jawed-naqvi-kashmirs-struggle-is-just-one-of-many-fighting-indian-injustices-690-sk-05 (The article is pasted below my comment) I found this commentary by Jawed Naqvi deeply disturbing, from its very opening, where he draws attention to the ‘political bankruptcy’ and the ‘warped mindset’ that currently prevails in the Kashmir valley. And no, he’s not talking about Farook Abdullah and the tattered remains of the National Conference draped around his son’s shoulders. And no, its not about the circus of ‘pro-India’ parties like the Congress and PDP, who won’t win an assembly seat without the support of a massive military-state apparatus. His critique is reserved for the ‘movement’, the omnibus word which right now probably invokes everyone from Syed Ali Shah Geelani to the stone-throwing protestors on the street. At a time when Kashmir is burning, I must be forgiven for thinking that ‘warped mindset’ is more appropriate for the militaristic, colonising imagination that is evident in the pronouncements coming out from the Home Ministry. (And the BJP headquarters). The evidence offered for Jawed sahib’s critique is a slogan that will “put off any sensitive sympathiser". ("Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyara Pakistan”.) Ignore the fact that I haven't heard of this slogan raised this year (or even last year?). Put aside the fact that provocative slogans are often raised by unarmed protesters in Kashmir, as an expression of rage and helplessness, and to taunt and insult the oppressive security forces (Remember “Aiwa! Aiwa! Lashkar-e-Taiba”?) You have to ignore these observations because the article moves on to shakier ground: the corporate land grab in Chhattisgarh, Orissa, Jharkhand and Bihar are made equivalent to the situation of Kashmiri Pandits who had to leave Kashmir in the 1990s. How this outlandish parallel between two unlikes is arrived at, we don’t know. But it’s not these egregious errors that trouble me. After all, Jawed sahib is a distinguished journalist, with a track record of courageous writing that unerringly rattles the right-wing Hindutva fascists in this country. So what makes him drop his legendary guard, and loosely toss out charges at people who have “lived with naked military repression for more than 20 years” and are “reeling under Indian occupation”? (His words, please note.) If this is so, why then are Kashmiris suddenly being asked to dwell on the thousands of suicides by indebted farmers? And take on board the suffering of Irom Sharmila and the people of Manipur? Why are they cast as the selfish recipients of the support of Canadian Sikhs and Indian Tamils? How do they become a movement “so self-absorbed that it didn’t have a policy much less a worldview about other people’s sufferings? Kashmiris did speak up once for the Palestinians, but now it seems they do not have the energy for even that.” On what basis these assertions are being made I don’t know, but I wonder: is this being asked of people in Jaipur? Or Patna? Or Lucknow? When was the last time Indians in these towns came out in support of Irom Sharmila, to protest farmers suicides, or Operation Green Hunt? Or is such sympathy only incumbent on those who are living in conditions that are slowly approximating war? The charge of self-absorption seems a mite unfair when people are being shot on the streets. Were I living in Kashmir the last three months I know I would be pretty self-absorbed. (It helps if you are trying not to get killed) But for me the crux of Jawed’s piece is not that he wants to encourage Kashmiris to develop a more rounded sense of injustice. The real center is illuminated by his reference to a conversation he had in the aftermath of the demolition of the Babri Masjid, when an unnamed Kashmiri politician expresses disinterest in the plight of the traumatized Indian Muslim. This is the familiar charge that is always flung at the movement in Kashmir: do you not realize that your ‘separatism’, your desire to unhitch yourself from the ‘socialist, secular, democratic’ wagon of India may dangerously rock the boat for Indian Muslims? I don’t know what answer he would have got eighteen years ago, but I can guess what many Kashmiris would tell him today. They would say that if India’s treatment of its minorities, including its Muslims, loyal Indians all of them, is so fragile, and so contingent on the settlement of the Kashmir issue, then is it worth it for Kashmiris to be a part of that India? They would at least point to Gujarat. If the promise of Indian secularism is as hollow, conditional, and belligerent, is it worth it to be a part of that nation? Unfortunately Jawed sahib is not alone: the best part of Indian civil society is quite firmly in sync with the position that his piece suggests. Is it because deep down, even the anti-establishment positions of India’s liberal, progressive, leftist tradition are somewhere umblically tied in with the increasingly exhausted notion of Nehruvian ‘secularism’. To the invitation to be part of that dream, I imagine today's Kashmiri saying: ‘aapki ganga-jamuni tehzeeb aap hee ko mubarak ho’. Notwithstanding the tragic departure of the Kashmiri Pandits in the early 1990s, which haunts Kashmir even today, located at the trijunction of three great civilisational (and religious) traditions, Kashmiris may already know a few things about coexistence. And before Indians discovered secularism. (As an aside: in 1947, when something like 50,000 Muslims were slaughtered in the streets of Jammu–under the direct supervision of the Maharani, let it be said–Kashmir didn’t show a flicker of the same horror) Why does the Indian liberal-progressive-left (LPL!) position finds it necessary to stuff events in Kashmir into the template that they are already having to wrestle uncomfortably with. Unless the Kashmiris can repackage their struggle into forms that fit into the undeniably useful framework of class, Kashmiri concerns about ethnicity, identity, self-determination are all somehow lesser political goals. Why are we in India not looking at the recent history of Kashmir, where an anti-feudal movement against the Maharaja turned into a movement for self-determination? Why do we not recall that Jammu & Kashmir was the only state to implement land reforms in the heady years after 1947? (Not just land to the tiller, but land to the landless too.) And finally, what role have the failures of Indian democracy played in giving this ‘separatist’ movement a pronounced religious turn? Last month, in what was possibly a historic first in New Delhi, protesting Kashmiri students mustered the courage to gather at Jantar Mantar to raise their voices against the killings in the valley. We heard ‘Hum kya chahte? Azadi’ for the first time ever, yes. We also heard ‘Nara-e-takbeer! Allah-o-akbar’. And in those few hours we heard passionate arguments about both sets of slogans. (All this openly, on the microphones, while the Special Branch no doubt watched.) But late in the evening we also heard the voice of the radical Telugu poet, Varavara Rao. He saluted the movement on behalf of his party, the CPI Maoist (present in 22 states in India as he cheekily reminded the audience!) Varavara Rao read out a poem that he had written in Hindustani, in order to be understood by the Kashmiri audience. He ended by saying that if in the ‘60s their slogan was ‘Amar nam, tumar nam, Vietnam, Vietnam’, now he wanted to add: ‘Amar nam, tumar nam, Kashmir, Kashmir’. I don’t know if the young audience understood what that fully meant (or whether they were appropriately touched by the solidarity). But I certainly know that Varavara, like any fighting revolutionary, did not appear in their moment of crisis to hector Kashmiris on their lack of concern for the beleaguered adivasis of Bastar, or for their blinkered lack of internationalism. I cannot help but think that when Jawed Naqvi’s commentary appeared in Dawn, readers in Pakistan, many of them part of the same liberal-progressive-left crowd, will no doubt be deeply satisfied. Like their equivalents here, they will be reassured that their growing disinterest in Kashmir is justified because the Kashmiris are narrow and parochial. Perhaps they deserve what they are getting. Sanjay Kak --------------------------------------------------- Kashmir’s struggle and the injustices By Jawed Naqvi Monday, 06 Sep, 2010 A particularly disturbing slogan heard in the Kashmir Valley, where its young school-goers and old patriarchs, angry women and restive youth are courageously defying Indian rule, is enough to put off any sensitive sympathiser. “Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara Pakistan.” (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of our dreams - we embrace.) This slogan conveys acute political bankruptcy in a region which has lived with naked military repression for more than 20 years. I’m sure any Pakistani with a sense of justice would also be uncomfortable with the warped mindset the slogan betrays. That Kashmir is reeling under Indian occupation is not a secret. That Pakistan has played a questionable role there is also well known. Yet, for Kashmiris to see their struggle as part of the many battles being waged by the poorest of the poor against the Indian state’s multi-pronged injustices against its own people, would not compromise or be a contradiction in Kashmir’s struggle for self-determination. The simple question for Kashmiris to ask themselves is, isn’t the same state that has killed 60 young Kashmiris in three months, also responsible for tens of thousands of suicides by indebted farmers in India? Does Sharmila Irom, who is fighting to repeal the law that gives unbridled powers to security forces in her Manipur state have no relevance for the same struggle in Kashmir? The tribespeople of Chhatisgarh, Orissa, Jharkhand and West Bengal are fighting for their fundamental rights. One of their demands is that they not be evicted from their homes to accommodate corporate land grab. Is this not what Kashmiri Pandits suffered at the hands of the Indian state as well as non-state actors in their homeland without any redress from successive Indian governments that claim to represent them? Indian Home Minister P. Chidambaram and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh have often cajoled dissident groups, including the banned Maoists, to come for talks within the constitutional framework. Why can’t the affected groups simultaneously expose the insincerity of the Indian state? To take just one example, the preamble of the Indian constitution describes the nation as a socialist and secular republic. Socialism is thus the law of the land. Which Indian government, including the one led by Chidambaram-Singh duo, has come anywhere close to keeping the promise of socialism? Just the opposite. Both have callously opened the country to the depredations of private capital. I met a Kashmiri separatist a few days after the Babri masjid was razed in Ayodhya. He happened to be the only senior enough leader to be still dodging the police in Srinagar. The rest were in jail. He told me he didn’t care for the plight of Indian Muslims in the wake of the Ayodhya outrage. “They have never helped the Kashmiris, so why should we bother with them?” The explanation for his aloofness was ironical. How can we forget the senior Indian minister telling journalists during the Agra summit that if Kashmir was to be given to Pakistan on the basis of religious claims, should not the Indian Muslims then be packed off in special trains to Pakistan? Kashmiris and Indian Muslims may see themselves as separate entities with separate causes. But their detractors will always see them as one headache. Check this out with Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi who knows Indian Muslims as children of Mian Musharraf. I put the question to some Kashmiri intellectuals in Delhi recently. I asked them how was it that a movement with international ramifications and wide support among a number of Muslim states could be so self-absorbed that it didn’t have a policy much less a worldview about other people’s sufferings. Kashmiris did speak up once for the Palestinians, but now it seems they do not have the energy for even that. On the other hand, there is no dearth of seemingly unrelated groups that lend them moral support. A recent rally in Canada of Sikhs and Kashmiri activists, who protested against India’s brutality in the Valley, could be a case in point. A few weeks ago an obscure Tamil group in India issued a statement in support of Kashmiris. Do the Kashmiris want to know who the members of the Tamil group are? There is something about this that reminds me of an interaction I once had with Gen Pervez Musharraf in Islamabad. He had just returned from a visit to Colombo where his government was giving military and political support to the government against Tamil rebels. I said how was the Tamil struggle any different from the Kashmiri movement since both stemmed from the denial of the right to self-determination. Gen Musharraf said he didn’t want to comment on another country’s internal matter. So he too chose the injustice, which suited him most. Vidya Subrahmaniam of The Hindu has done an interesting comparison of three major pogroms in India, each fighting its own battle without getting involved with the sorrows of each other. The Orissa violence, in which Hindu-Adivasis targeted Dalit Christians, was undoubtedly smaller in scale compared to Gujarat 2002 and Delhi 1984. “Despite…variations, the three pogroms could have been written, produced and directed by a single satanic mind, judging by the astonishing similarity in the detail and sequence of events and the stunning brutality of the crimes committed,” says Subrahmaniam. In his November 2002 foreword to the report of the Concerned Citizens Tribunal, which collected 2,094 oral and written testimonies from Gujarat’s victim-survivors as well as human rights groups, Justice V.R. Krishna Iyer said: “The gravamen of this pogrom-like operation was that the administration reversed its constitutional role, and by omission and commission, engineered the loot, ravishment and murder which was methodically perpetrated through planned process …” Eight years later, as Subrahmaniam notes, the jury at the Kandhamal Tribunal had similar words to say: “The jury records its shock and deep concern for the heinous and brutal manner in which the members of the Christian community were killed, dismembered, sexually assaulted and tortured … There was rampant and systematic looting and destruction of houses and places of worship and means of livelihood … The jury is further convinced that the communal violence in Kandhamal was the consequence of a subversion of constitutional governance in which state agents were complicit.” “When, in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s 1984 assassination, thousands of Sikhs were massacred on the streets of Delhi, the commonly-held view was that it was an aberration brought about by an extraordinary situation. Comparisons were made with the 1947 Partition riots but few could have known at that time that the clinically planned and executed anti-Sikh pogrom would serve as a model for two more episodes of mass aggression against minorities,” The Hindu analysis said. India has spawned a coalition of injustices. For those in the Kashmiri resistance to show solidarity with those fighting the same bloated, militarised state that they are, will not compromise their goal. It would only deepen their vision and sharpen their ideas of what kind of ‘azadi’ they are fighting for. From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Sep 8 15:57:45 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 15:57:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: References: <891709.43725.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Tara Prakah, Dear Inder, I think the incident of Mr. Joseph's hands being cut off was truly horrifying, and worthy of condemnation. I rarely see reason to agree with a CPI(M) leader, but when M.A. Baby, Kerala's minister of education called the incident an act of terrorism, (yesterday evening on the News Hour Debate on Times Now) I have to say that I agreed with him. It was an act intended to intimidate and terrorise a person, that too, a teacher, from exercising their right to free speech. In any case, Mr. Joseph in no way intended the reference that he made to a fictional character in a screenplay while setting a question paper to be confused with the person of the propher Mohammad. Mohammad, happens also to be a personal name, exactly as Ram, Krishna, Durga, Siddharth, Jesus or Moses. The expectation that we must give way to the sentiments of religious zealots every time we invoke such names is totally unreasonable. Further, I believe that the right to free speech is actually meaningless without the right to blasphemous speech (intentional or otherwise). I may or may not agree with such blasphemous speech, but I think we need to defend the right to blasphemy if we are to want to live in a free and open society. A lot of religious statements are personally deeply offensive to me. I do not, on that basis, go out and ask for the hands of believers to be chopped off, or for them to be killed. Likewise, I would expect, the same conduct from those who are religious and may be offended by what they may see, or choose to see, as my blasphemy. Islamic fundamentalism, (which was responsible for the attack on Mr. Joseph) like all forms of fundamentalism (in every religion) is truly antithetical to all our liberties. best, Shuddha On 08-Sep-10, at 3:45 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > Dear Taraprakash ji > thanks for this comment > we all certainly need to be reminded about all those ugly things that > threaten to engulf our stock of sensibilites. > I have yet to see a sensible person justifiying the chopping of > hands tragedy. > The list of sad things is long, sadly > > regards > love > is > > > On 9/8/10, TaraPrakash wrote: >> Yes we are hollow men, we are follow men, >> shallow men and mellow men. The artist concerned, and Taslima >> Nasreen and MF >> Hussain are so much luckier than Mr. Joseph a Malayalam teacher >> whose hands >> were chopped off by some terrorists for calling a mad man Mohammed. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Inder Salim" >> >> To: "reader-list" >> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 10:50 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by >> Govt. >> >> >>> Dear Kshmendra ji >>> >>> In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it go to dogs, >>> anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to corruption ( CWG), >>> decay >>> of food grains etc, >>> how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for the safety of >>> society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial watchers) , >>> >>> we should actually close down all the Art institutions in India and >>> hand over to religious preachers or some corporate houses which can >>> give them some money for buying properties abroad. >>> >>> we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am wondering even why i >>> posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against Hussain >>> paintings, >>> but none against poor people who live under bridges. We have no >>> desire >>> to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below poverty line >>> population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, head piece >>> filled >>> with straw." >>> >>> This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( khajuraho >>> etc ), >>> its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all ancient >>> text ), >>> but what we love is territory, flag, army and tight disciplined >>> bureaucracy. >>> >>> We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but desire for lean >>> blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to liberate ... >>> >>> Mera Bharat Mahaan >>> >>> love >>> is >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Dear Inder >>>> >>>> It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no >> reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake. >>>> >>>> The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. >>>> >>>> On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no >>>> great >> reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable >> if Nehru >> Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did >> not want to >> risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before taking >> the action >> though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. >>>> >>>> Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron >> brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to >> "saffron". >> In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda. >>>> >>>> If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to >> "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step >> forward and >> give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these >> whines about >> "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" and >> "decaying food grains" >>>> >>>> You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things >>>> addressed >> by your own participation in the political processes or interventions >> through RTI and Courts of Law. >>>> >>>> Kshmendra >>>> >>>> PS. Do you have anything other than whines? >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Inder Salim >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by >>>> Govt. >>>> To: "reader-list" >>>> Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM >>>> >>>> Thanks dear Kshmendra >>>> >>>> "This is the >>>> first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." >>>> >>>> >>>> well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the >>>> hands >>>> of saffron brigade >>>> but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our >>>> politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like >>>> CWG >>>> >>>> This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not >>>> mincing >> words >>>> it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other >>>> sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains >>>> storage. sad >>>> >>>> best >>>> is >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Inder Salim >>>>> Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. >>>>> To: "reader-list" >>>>> Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work- >> forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms >>>>> -- >>>>> MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist >>>>> forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the >>>>> exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This >>>>> is the >>>>> first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. >>>>> >>>>> Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the >>>>> Worli >>>>> police. He said this was a violation of his right to express >>>>> himself, >>>>> and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure >>>>> from a >>>>> saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant >>>>> director of >>>>> the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were >>>>> in bad >>>>> taste and created controversy". >>>>> >>>>> The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune >>>>> Karar)' >>>>> and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi >>>>> striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the >>>>> inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or >>>>> the Pune >>>>> Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr >>>>> Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude >>>>> Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. >>>>> >>>>> "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to >>>>> remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said >>>>> Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja >>>>> prevalent >>>>> in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. >>>>> >>>>> The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any >>>>> controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", >>>>> Nehru >>>>> Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The >>>>> paintings >>>>> were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to >>>>> undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the >>>>> light on >>>>> Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and >>>>> Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings >>>>> and >>>>> continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If >>>>> you do >>>>> not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for >>>>> public >>>>> viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. >>>>> >>>>> When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue >>>>> the >>>>> exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September >>>>> 1 as >>>>> Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the >>>>> time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on >>>>> September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits >>>>> were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind >>>>> Faith' to be controversial." >>>>> >>>>> Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded >>>>> that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. >>>>> >>>>> Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art >>>>> show - >>>>> Mumbai - City - The Times of India >>>>> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work- >> forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/ >> 6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>> with > >> subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 01:30:01 2010 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <393999.64925.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Sonia, A few questions\observations not directly related to your thread: 1. What is the relation between JKP and army? Is there any cooperation  between them ? Are they hostile to each other, have conflicts of stepping on each others turf? 2. What is the comparison between JKP and army with respect to human rights abuses? 3. In almost all over India police abuse their powers just by virtue of their existence. How is army different that they need a special act ? Would it make much difference even  if AFSPA is repealed? 4.  AFSPA seems to me  like a condition of the Army that if they have to do the dirty work they want exemption from the judiciary, and they seem to have a veto on the govt over it. Its also strange that no political party calls for repealing it. Thanks Rahul ----- Original Message ---- From: SJabbar To: Inder Salim ; Sarai Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 7:26:35 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions You seem to be the one offering all kinds of explanations for what I consider normal activity.  It only appears abnormal to me in the context of the current phase of the azadi movement that specifically targets the J&K Police and not the Indian Army. On 08/09/10 4:51 PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > in any case the poeple in kashmir are free to seek govt jobs irrespective of > politics that is plaguing the valley since 1947 or? you  still see it > differntly? love is On 9/8/10, SJabbar wrote: > Not > sure about the accuracy of your claim of Nehru 'hounding' the leftists > in > Kashmir. It was the Left faction in the NC that turned against Sheikh > > Abdullah in 1952 when they thought he was hobnobbing with the Americans. You > > can read both Josef Korbel's account as well as N.N Raina on what the > > Communists thought of Sh. Abdullah. And I really fail to see the connection. > > I'd blame Nehru less and our present culture of globalization and glitz and > > slick ads on TV more for the decline of interest in crafts and agriculture > > and the false glamour attached to white collar jobs. > > > On 08/09/10 4:16 > PM, "Inder Salim" wrote: > > > Dear Sonia > i was > casually surfing about agriculture, and found this > > interesting > piece on > Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite > > slippery > to compare > it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are > > some > historical > reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant. > > > > People are not > happy with rural life, because of number of reasons. > The crafts > > people > are not adequately paid for their skills and they > naturally shun > > > traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their > own systems which > > > sutain... > > but the jobs are  jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as > much > > a > carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for > the > easier > > paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what > must > have happened > > in Kurdistan, where they are just little > traditional > farming left... > > the > > young boys seeking jobs ( police etc > )in Kashmir are because we > traditionally > > have never respected the > worker, but a govt servant, > who manages to find a > > healthy wealthy and > beautiful bride easily in > comparision to non govt > > servant. > > There is > a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans > > in > Kashmir hounded > Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left > poltics > > during 40 to > 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress > policy of india > > and > kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was > a leftists ). even if we > > > forget about the histroy how centre humilated > Sheikh abdullah time and > > > again... > > The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it > > > does > not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian > > govt > > been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have > > looked  down > > upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner, > but > that is > > unlikely. > > Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West > Bengal who > > experienced > some land reforms... rest of india was mute > spectator to > > brilliant > changes that were happening under the broad day > light.... Shame > > to > Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which > actually was meant > > to > gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. > That thing > > still > continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, > who joined > hands > > in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual > nature of > kashmir > > issue. > > the discussion can go on >  will come > back > > hugs > love > is > > the link > > below > > http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml > > Another > > > sociological study states: > > "The share of agriculture in gross domestic > > > product sank [from 1962 to > 1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even > though > > the number of those > employed on the land has only dropped > slightly (from 9.7 > > to 9.0 > million). A result of this development was > sinking incomes for > > those > working in agriculture and a subsequent > migration from the > countryside. > > Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty > towns) sprang up." > [4] > > None of this > > amounts to the formation of a > Kurdish bourgeoisie as the > backbone of an > > independent nation-state, but > rather signals the > integration of the Kurdish > > people into the Turkish > and international > working class. The amalgamation of > > Turkish and Kurdish > workers by > means of a common socialist programme lay > > within reach. The > > perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have > > opened up > > favourable prospects for the structural development of the > > backward > > mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the > > Kurdish > > minority. > > On the other hand, the project of forming an independent > > > nation-state > was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. > In > > the > beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic > social > basis > > for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who > might > have hoped to > > find careers and posts in such a state > apparatus. > > The PKK turned its back on > > the urban working class. > Following its > foundation in 1979-80, it organised a > > few battles and > skirmishes with > the big landowners, which were followed by the > > peasants > with a certain > sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK > > remained > limited as > they renounced a radical programme to liberate the > > peasants, > so as not > to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big > > > landowners. Their > bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), > rival > > Kurdish > organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear > and > > terror > among ordinary people. > > Meanwhile, the social democratic > government of > > Bulent Ecevit was > deliberately raking up national > chauvinism and religious > > differences > in order to gain control of the > militant workers movement. The > > 1974 > Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred > during Ecevit's period in office. > He > > entered a coalition with the > Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of > the > > present Welfare Party) and > introduced the state recognition of > Islamic > > schools. Once he had > engineered clashes in this way, in 1978 > Ecevit > > implemented military rule > in the Kurdish provinces. At this > time, there were > > around a million > workers and students who were > members of organisations > > claiming to be > socialist. > > > > On 9/8/10, SJabbar > > wrote: > > > Not at all.  Please see my reply to Inder Salim. > > > > > > On 08/09/10 > > > 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > > > dear Sonia, > > > > To > ask > > questions and to judge are very different. No? > > > > I was just > > > > curious if > > the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the > > posting > about > > > lines of > > young men joining the police could be stretched > > > to other moments in > > > near > > times. Somehow from your response it seems > it > > cannot be. You somehow > > > > > accept one as given and the other as > strange. > > Still not sure how you make > > > > > that distinction. > > > > > warmly > > jeebesh > > > > On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or > > > being > > > > > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always > far > > more > > >> > > > complicated and illegible > > > than the judgement > of the > > spectator. > > > ' > > > > > > So > > > the spectator must suspend > judgment, must not > > question?  Then why > > > do you > > > > > > question > when the state acts within its > > 'iron frame' inherited from > > > the > > > > ICS? > > > Mysterious motives must also > > drive the one who drives you mad > by > > > > > > telling you > > > he can't find your > > file or that you must > pay a bribe to get a > > > copy > > > of the > > > challan > > which you > thought due to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 07/09/10 > > > 7:21 PM, > > > "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > > > >> The so called iron frame > of > > > > > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > > > officers. > > >> It > was more than > > getting > > > on with life :) > > > > > > On Kashmir i > understand very little > > >> > > to be able to > > > comment. But some > > > > comments seem to mock the people who > > are > > >> trying to > > > > articulate > > > something substantial. A little caution > > about > > >> > interpreting > > > quickly. > > > The maxim of the actors are always > > far > more > > >> complicated and > > > illegible > > > than the judgement of the > > > spectator. > > > > > > On > > >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 > > > PM, SJabbar > wrote: > > > > > >> > > Did they?  Or did they do what most > > >> people do, > make > > > their peace > > with > > >> the new > > >> dispensation and get on > with > > >> life. > > >> > > >> The > > > > > point is to understand how it is > that a phenomena like 60,000 > > >> > > >> > > young > > > men > > >> applying > for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what > > people > > >> > > > are > > > >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't > > see the J&K > > > >> > > >> > > > Police as > > >> an abhorrent force?  Can it be that > > they > are the relatives of > > > men > > >> > > >> who are > > >> already in the > JKP? > > Can it be that they don't subscribe > > > to > > >> azadi? > > >> And > how > > >> do > > the families of tens of thousands of men who are > > > in > > > >> the JKP and > > >> > > JAKLI see > > >> their kin? > > >> > > >> Another > puzzling matter: > > > we speak > > >> > > of the AFSPA and its revocation > > > >> but the > > >> JKP is not protected > > > by > > the Act. > > >> And one > more thing: the army, that > > >> has > > >> been > > responsible > > > for > the worst > > >> human rights abuses in the last 2 > > >> > > decades is > > > >> not > > > targeted by the > > >> stone-pelters.  They continue > > their > work of > > >> > > > patrolling > > >> and cordon & > > >> search operations > as > > if they live on another > > > planet. > > >> The target > > >> is > > > >> always the > > JKP. > > >> > > >> > > >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, > > > > "Jeebesh" > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> agreed. but how > come they all > > > became unquestionable > > nationalists > > >> > > >>> > after > > >>> > > >> 1947? > > >> > > >> On > > > 07-Sep-10, at > > 5:41 PM, > SJabbar wrote: > > >> > > >>> You're > > >> right Jeebesh, and > > >>> > > > > > > most people who were recruited were > > >>> absolutely > > >>> > > >> loyal > to the > > > > > British > > >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the > Congress. > > >>> And > > >> > > why > > >>> > > > just speak of the > > >>> > 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was > > deeply > > >> divided > > >>> > > > and > very > > >>> few at the > > >>> time articulated > > it as a 'war for > > >> > > > > independence.'  It > > >>> would be > > >>> foolish to > > > > >>> say > that those who served > > > the > > >> British Empire were closet > > >>> > > > nationalists forced > > >>> into furthering > > > their > > >> careers by > joining > > the > > >>> army or > > >>> ICS. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On > > > >>> > > > 07/09/10 5:22 > > PM, > > >> "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > >>> > > >>>> recruitment > > > > > in > > >>> indian > > >> subcontinent > during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > > >>> > > the > > >>>> > > > british > army > > >>> was > > >> very high. what did this say about > > the > aspiration > > >>> > > > and lives > > >>>> being > > >> led > > >>> at that > time in > > the sub continent. do we > > > even > > >>> count that number > > > >>>> > > >> today > > in > > >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in > > > the sub > > > >>> continent? > > >>> > > >>> > > On > > >> 07-Sep-10, at > > >>>> 2:10 > > > >>> PM, SJabbar > > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > But Gowhar, what happens > > > >> when a man who hitherto > > >>>> > > >>> > > > abhors > > an > > >>>> > institution joins > > >>>> it? What > > >> happens to that extreme > > > > > > emotion > > >>>> > > >>> when the line is crossed, > > >>>> when > > >> the > > > >>>> > > uniform is > > > donned, when the > > >>> 'danda' > > >>>> drops > firmly into his > > > > >> hands? > > >>>> By your > > > logic all those who > joined > > >>> the force > > >>>> > > post-1990 once > > >> abhorred > > > >>>> > > > the > > >>>> institution and now have > > become > > >>> the > > > >>>> oppressors. > > >> And those > > > who pelt > > >>>> > > stones > > >>>> > at the oppressors now want > > >>> to > > >>>> join > > >> the > > > > > same > hated institution only > > >>>> to become > > >>>> future oppressors? > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > Not > > >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men?  You > may > > >>>> > > understand this, > > > but > > >> I > > >>> have to > > >>>> > tell you, it's left me > > totally > > >>>> > > > perplexed. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> On > > >> 07/09/10 > > >>> 1:58 > > PM, > > >>>> "gowhar > fazli" > > > > > >> wrote: > > >>>> > > > > >>>>>> I > don't > > >>> like the > > > heading > > >>>> "Why Kashmir > > >>>>> defies > > > > > >> solutions". > > >>>>> > > >>>>> It is > > > in > > >>>>>> > > >>> > these moments that > > the > > >>>> real > > >> desperation and loss > > > >>>>> > > > of self of Kashmiris > > > > >>> as a > > >>>>>> people > > >> > becomes > > >>>> evident. For > > >>>>> > > > > > livelihood they have to > stoop > > >>> before the > > >> same > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > > > > institutions > > >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor > > >>> for > > > >> > > > > > obvious > > >>>> reasons. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> This contradiction > that runs > > through > > > their > > >>> > > >> very selves, > > >>>>> > > > >>>> prevents people > > > > >>>>>> from acquiring a > > > full blown > > > >>> > > >> human-hood. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > There should > > >>>> be no > guilt > > > or > > >>>>>> indignity > > >> associated > > > > >>> with > > > >>>>> acquiring of livelihood > > >>>> > > > through legitimate > > >> > > > means, > > >>>>>> but > > >>> this > > >>>>> is the case one way or > > > the > other, > > > > >>>> for most > > >> people in > > >>>>> > > >>> Kashmir. > > > >>>>>> The boundaries > > > > > between legitimate and > > >>>> > > >> > illegitimate > > >>>>> are > > >>> > > dizzyingly > > > fuzzy > > >>>>>> > because of the manner in which > > >> the > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> selves are > > > >>> > > > split. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If not for any > > > > >>>>>> other but > for > > >> the indignities > > >>>> > > > involved > > >>> in > > >>>>> > > > the status quo that Kashmir > > >> issue > > >>>>>> should be > > > resolved > for > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> good. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> --- On Tue, > > > >> 9/7/10, > > > > > SJabbar > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > From: SJabbar > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: > > >>>> > > >>> > > > >> > > > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies > > > > >>>>>> solutions > > >>>>>> > To: > > > "Sarai" > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, > > >>>>>> > > > September 7, > > 2010, 10:19 > > >>> > > > >> AM > > >>>>>> > > >>>> Printed from > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > > > > Khaki > enemy? 60,000 > > >>>>>> Kashmiris > > >> apply for > > >>> 3,000 > > >>>> > > > police > > >>>>> > > > jobs > > >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep > > >> 7, > > > >>>>>> > > 2010, 01.30am > > >>> > > > IST > > >>>>>> > > >>>> SRINAGAR: > Despite reports of > > >> > > desertions in its > > > ranks > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > >>> and > > >>>>>> threats of > > > > >>>> social > > >>>>>> > > >> > boycott, > > > J&K police has emerged as a big > > >>> > > draw > > >>>>>> > for > > >>>>> > > >> young > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > job hunters in > > > > > >>>>>> employment-starved > > >>> Kashmir. Ignoring > > >> calls > > >>>>>> > > > > by > > > > >>>>> > > >>>> hardliners to > > >>>>>> shun the khaki > > > >>>>>> > > >>> force, > > >> > > nearly > > > 60,000 men applied > > >>>>>> > for > > >>>> less than 3,000 > > >>>>> > > jobs > > >>>>>> in > > >>> > > >> > > > > J&K police -- > > >>>>>> about 200 applicants > > for > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > one > > > constable's > > >>> > > >> post. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The > > > applications piled up over the last > > > few > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > >> > > months, > > >>>>> about > > >>>>>> the time when the > > >>>>>> > > > > situation in the > > Valley > > >>> > > >> appeared > > >>>> to > > >>>>>> be > spinning out > > >>>>> > > > of > > > > >>>>>> control with the > > >> cops > > > >>>>>> > > >>> particularly being > > >>>> > > at > > > the > > >>>>>> > receiving end of public > > >>>>> > > >> wrath. > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > >>> J&K > > > police DG Kuldeep > > >>>> Khoda said > > >>>>>> the > > >> > > > department > > >>>>> has > > >>>>>> > > > received > > >>> 58,975 > > >>>>>> > > > applications, > > >>>> against > > >> 2,786 > > >>>>>> > > > vacancies > across the > > > > >>>>> > > >>> Valley. > > >>>>>> "The response > > >> > > > > from > > >>>>>> > > >>>> (the > > worst-hit) > > >>>>>> Srinagar and > > >>> > Budgam districts > > > was > > >> even > > > > >>>>> more > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > heartening," he > > >>>>>> said. > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > > > > "We've > received > > >> 2,860 applications, against > > >>>> 529 > > >>>>> posts > > > > > >>>>>> > > > in > > >>> > > >> Srinagar > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> district, > while 8053 > > against 283 in > > >>>> > > > Budgam," he > > >>> > > >> > said. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Lack > > of jobs > > >>>>>> has been a big spur > > > > for the > > >>>> > > >> protests > > > > >>>>> > > >>> that > > >>>>>> > brought thousands > > > of > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> young > > educated > > >> men > on to the > > >>>> > > >>> streets. > > > Official > > >>>>> > > estimates > of > > >>>>>> the > > >> number > > >>>>>> of > > >>>>>> unemployed > > > in > > > > > >>> the > > >>>> Valley stands at 3 > > >> lakhs. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > Khoda told > > > > >>>>>> > > > reporters the > > >>> department held > > > >>>> > > >> a > > >>>>> > > recruitment > > >>>>>> rally in > > > Baramulla > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> district > > in July > > >> and was > > >>>> > overwhelmed with > > > the > > >>>>> response. > > > > >>>>>> "Over > > >>> > 8,000 > > >>>>>> > > >> people > > >>>>>> turned up > > > for > > > > >>>> 412 > posts despite turmoil in the > > >>>>> > > >>> > > >> district," > > >>>>>> > > > > > > he > > >>>>>> said, and added > > >>>>>> > > >>>> that even > stone-pelters > > >>> > > > > >> attended > > > the rally. He said > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>> department > > > > >>>> was > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > > mulling > > >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives > > > > >>>>>> across > > > >>>>> > > > the > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> Valley, > > >>> > > particularly > > > >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > > > to end > > >>>>>> > > >> > > the > > > >>>> > > >>> unrest. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > > > > reports > > on desertions > > >> and > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > insubordination. He > > > > > claimed > > >>>>>> no police personnel > > >> > had quit since > > >>>> > > >>> > > mid-June > > >>>>>> > > > when > > >>>>> > Kashmir > > >>>>>> erupted in > > >> anger > > > > >>>>>> against the > > > >>> > > > alleged > > >>>> staged encounter > > >>>>>> of > > three > > >> > north > > >>>>> Kashmir > > >>>>>> > > > youth and > > >>> a > > >>>>>> > > > 17-year-old > > >>>> boy's killing > > >> in > > >>>>>> police > > > action. > Over 60 > > > > >>>>> > > >>> people, > > >>>>>> including > > >> women > > > >>>>>> > > >>>> and > > > > > children, have > > >>>>>> died in police > > >>> > firing on > > >>>>> > > >> > > protesters > > >>>>>> > > > since > > >>>> > then. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> State > > >>>>>> > > government > > >>> sources > > > >> said J&K > > > CM Omar > > >>>>> Abdullah, > > >>>> > > who > > >>>>>> > has called for a > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > proactive > > > approach including the phased > > >>>> revocation of > > >>>>> > > >> > > > > the > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> controversial > > >>>>>> Armed Forces > Special Forces > > > > > Act > > >>>> to > > >> deal with > > >>> street > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> protests, has > > ordered > > >>>>>> > > > creation of > more > > >> police > > >>>> jobs to > > >>> induct > > youth from > > >>>>>> > > > > the > > >>>>>> troubled > > >> areas. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Meanwhile, > in > > >>>> its > > >>> ongoing > > > drive to reach out > > >>>>>> > > >> > to > > the > > >>>>> people, > > >>>>>> Kashmir > > > range > > >>>>>> > > >>> > IGP > > >>>> > > Kashmir, S M Sahai, > > >> attended > > >>>>>> > > > > police-public > > >>>>> meetings > > in > > >>>>>> > > >>> Ganderbal > > >>>> > and > > >>>>>> > > >> Budgam > > > districts. > > "At > > >>>>>> Ganderbal > District Police > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > Lines, > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>> > > >> > around 300 people > > >>>>>> including senior > > >>>>>> > > > citizens > > > and > > >>> sarpanchs > > >>>> > > >> participated," > > >>>>> a > > >>>>>> > police > > > > > spokesman > > >>>>>> said. > > >>>>>> "Sahai > > >>> > > >> > assured the > > >>>> people > > that > > > police will > > >>>>> adopt > > > >>>>>> maximum > > >>> > > >> restraint > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> while > > > > dealing > > >>>> with law and order > > >>> > > >> > > situations." > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > >>>>>> > > >>> reader-list: an > > > > > > open > > >>>> > > >> discussion > > >>>>>> list on media and the > > > >>>>>> city. > > > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > > Critiques & > > >>>> > > >> > Collaborations > > >>>>>> To > > >>>>>> > > subscribe: send an email > > > > to > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >>>>>> with > subscribe > > >>>>>> in > > > the > > subject > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > header. > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>>>> > > List > > > >> > > > archive: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > >>>> > > >> reader-list: an > > > > > open > > >>>> > > >>> discussion > > > >>>>>> list on media and the city. > > >>>> > > >> > > Critiques > > > & > Collaborations > > >>>> > > >>> To > > >>>> subscribe: send an > > > > >>>>>> > email to > > >> > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>> subscribe > > > > > >>>> in the subject > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > header. > > >>>> To > unsubscribe: > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> List > > >> > > > > > > archive: > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > >>>> > > reader-list: an open > > > >>> > > >> > > > discussion > > >>>> list on media and the > > city. > > > >>>> Critiques & > > > Collaborations > > >>>> > > >> To > > >>> subscribe: > > > send > > >>>> an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > >>>> > > >> > > subscribe > > >>> in the subject > > >>>> > > > header. > > > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> > > List > > > > archive: > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > __________________________ > > >>>> _______________ > > >>> > reader-list: an > > > > > open > > >>> > > >> discussion list on media and > the > > >>>> city. > > >>> Critiques > > & > > > Collaborations > > >>> > > >> > To > > >>> subscribe: send an email to > > >>>> > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in > > >>> the subject > > > header. > > >>> > > > To > > >>>> unsubscribe: > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> List > > > > archive: > > > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ______________________ > > >>> ___________________ > > > >> > > reader-list: an open > > >> > > > discussion list on media and the > > > >>> city. > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > > > To > > >> > subscribe: send an email to > > > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in > > >> the subject > > header. > > >> To > > >>> unsubscribe: > > > >> > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List > archive: > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an > open > > > > > discussion > > >> list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques > & Collaborations > > > > >> To > > > subscribe: send > > >> an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > >> subscribe > > > in the subject > > > >> header. > > >> To unsubscribe: > > > > >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List > > archive: > > > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________ > > >> _______________ > > > reader-list: > an open > > > > > discussion list on media and the > > >> city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To > > > subscribe: send an email to > > > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in > > > the subject > header. > > > To > > >> unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > >> > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ > > > ___________________ > > reader-list: an > open > > discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > Critiques & > Collaborations > > To > > subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > > in the subject header. > > > To > > > unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open > discussion > > list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & > > Collaborations > To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & > Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From iram at sarai.net Thu Sep 9 02:14:53 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:44:53 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Delhi Commons: Call for participation Message-ID: <4C87F5C5.8000904@sarai.net> apologies for x posting. iram HELLO! You are invited to participate in Delhi Commons. www.delhicommons.net/ Delhi Commons is an art project that aims to create a memory of the Commonwealth Games and Delhi, in the tradition of 'memory making' through photographs, postcards and souvenirs. The project is located in the city of Delhi and on the world wide web. We would like to hear from you - where ever you are. Let our geographical location not be a deterrent to your participation :) In the last few years the city has witnessed massive structural transformation, demolition of neighbourhoods, re-development of the Yamuna river floodplain, increased migration, violation of labour laws, unprecedented corruption, scandal, and mismanagement. Perhaps we can say that Delhi is a little exhausted. The 2010 Games are the most expensive CWG ever, costing USD 2 billion so far and still counting. Delhi Commons project is looking to produce/ host art-work that critically respond to this situation. The next couple of months starting NOW are really crucial for us. You can PARTICIPATE YOU could be anyone - student, teacher, artist, DTP operator, vagabond, musician, statistician, physician, athlete, journalist, academic, dreamer, trainee, psychiatrist, stockbroker, salesman, actor, engineer, nurse, astronaut, astrologer... Take photos, surf the internet, work with found images and words, work with crayons and paint, cut, copy, paste, remix. Be witty, cheeky, ironic, funny, poetic, non PC, complex… SHARE your work with us. I] Join our Facebook group and keep track of the latest at Delhi Commons http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151362174887626 II] Online Photography Show Use your DSLR, SLR, point and shoot, and cell phone cameras - Especially cell phone cameras! Tell an image story, anecdote or a joke. Send your photographs, preferably a series of 8 -12 to delhicommons at gmail.com We will show your work in an online exhibition starting September 15, 2010. Each selected entry will be showcased on the Delhi Commons website for a week. The images will then be uploaded on the Delhi Commons photo archive on Flickr. Selected images from here will be exhibited in the Delhi Commons exhibition in early 2011. III] Make a postcard Postcards travel. They carry messages, stories, secrets, rumours and gossip... across cities and continents. They're also emblematic of the picturesque, the sanitized and the iconic. Work with the form and tell us a story. Add to the Delhi Commons postcard series. MAKE a postcard now and email it to us! We'll upload it on our website, Facebook page, email it to many more people, and snail mail some of the selected postcards to individuals and organizations. If you want a Delhi Commons postcard, drop us an email at delhicommons [at]gmail.com We'll print the postcards for the Delhi Commons exhibition, and perhaps make a book of postcards. Project timeline for Phase I: September 1 - October 30, 2010. Dates for the Commonwealth Games are October 3 - 14, 2010. Some artists working towards the Delhi Commons exhibition include Goutam Ghosh, Iram Ghufran, Amitabh Kumar and Bhagwati Prasad. We are also producing designs for souvenirs that will be made available for free download from our website. You can then print coffee mugs, T shirts, coasters, postcards et al anywhere. Delhi Commons buttons/ badges will be available at Sarai CSDS, and several bookshops in the city very soon. Your suggestions are welcome. Collaborations are invited. Delhi Commons has been initiated by Iram Ghufran with generous support from ANA [Arts Network Asia]. Iram is a filmmaker, photographer, and artist. She is based in the Media Lab at Sarai- CSDS, Delhi. * All work on the Delhi Commons website has been released under a CC license. Please read the disclaimer on the website before making your submission. Thank you! *** _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Sep 9 13:43:12 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 13:43:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Facebook and Youtube Message-ID: <58CA0223-23F7-4B89-965D-FBFB076434FC@sarai.net> dear All, a video appeared in facebook and youtube a day before. (the details are below in the two news reports). a lot of discussion had started in facebook around it. now it has been removed by both youtube and facebook. and along with it has disappeared all the discussions and comments. obviously it was a management decision. why they removed it no-one would know. Right to Information do not ever apply to corporate bodies anyway. Both facebook and youtube has become critical space to see, circulate and discuss many current events. but this kind of arbitrary removal of material clearly shows that this is a very unreliable space and need to be backed up with other more secured spaces in the net. warmly jeebesh http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mystery-valley-video-4-naked-men-herded-by-security-personnel/679349/ Mystery Valley video: ‘4 naked men herded by security personnel’ A three-minute video anonymously posted on YouTube and Facebook that purportedly shows uniformed security personnel in the Valley herding four young men stripped naked is being widely circulated in Srinagar. There is no indication of where and when the video was recorded. Inspector General of Police, Kashmir zone, S M Sahai told The Indian Express that he had watched the clip and it looks like an “old video.” “We don’t know what is the origin of it (the video) but we will definitely inquire into it and check in what circumstances it was taken,” Sahai said. The Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) questioned the video’s authenticity. “Such a thing is not possible in Kashmir,” said CRPF spokesman Prabhakar Tripathi. “The video seems manipulated to tarnish the image of the force and police.” Tripathi said it was hard to imagine how such an incident, if it had happened, could remain under wraps so long. http://greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/9/video-shows-cops-parading-youth-naked-29.asp Video shows cops parading youth naked Facebook clip triggers rage GOWHAR BHAT Srinagar, Sept 8: Is there an Abu Gharib in Kashmir? At least a video clip, released and circulated widely on internet, suggests so. The 3-minute video, which has been uploaded on social networking site Facebook and YouTube, shows how paramilitary CRPF troopers and police in a brazen display of horror made a group of youth march naked in a locality. The video clip, available athttp://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/ video/video.php?v=1511380457625&ref=mf, has shocked every viewer, who expressed strong resentment over ‘uniformed hooliganism.’ The video has shown Kashmiri youth being stripped first and then made to parade naked by a group of policemen and CRPF men. The video has been uploaded under the tag “India’s Abu Gharaib exposed in Kashmir.” It has been posted by a group named “Citizens of Kashmir” on Facebook on Tuesday evening and in less than 24 hours, the un-dated video was re-shared by tens of thousands of people. The clip is low in resolution and has apparently been shot by a mobile phone camera. Police and CRPF men hurl abuses at youth, at least four in number, as they parade them through a field in the countryside. A policeman repeatedly shouts at them and asks them to put up their hands as they try to cover their body by clothes. He asks them to move to a police station. The video has also captured the cries of women and children, who must have been watching the show from a distance. “(It is) democracy at work in Kashmir,” remarks a Facebook user while reacting to the video. “Maximum damage to human psyche occurs when you are stripped naked in front of your mothers and sisters. That is what Indian soldiers have tried to do. But alas they failed,” wrote another user. The video has generated thousands of comments. Many users have speculated that the video has been shot by some police or CRPF men and shared it with other people on mobile. Few made a guess that it has been shot in north Kashmir’s Sopur. According to psychologists, parading youth naked means hurting their self esteem. “And this can prove very dear to the forces. This will further add to the anger on the streets. We have seen people committing suicide over such issues. If such a thing has happened in Kashmir, it is highly condemnable. The government needs to look into the issue seriously and punish the accused cops,” said a professor of psychology, wishing anonymity. “Such display of horror would certainly add to alienation and force the youth to take to streets.” A user wrote that he would approach the National Human Rights Commission with the clip. Senior police officers refused to comment on the issue. “We don’t know anything about it,” said an officer, insisting not to be named. From patrice at xs4all.nl Thu Sep 9 13:56:41 2010 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 10:26:41 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Facebook and Youtube In-Reply-To: <58CA0223-23F7-4B89-965D-FBFB076434FC@sarai.net> References: <58CA0223-23F7-4B89-965D-FBFB076434FC@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6160fe8a764bacedd261b8946920b018.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> > dear All, > > a video appeared in facebook and youtube a day before. (the details > are below in the two news reports). > > a lot of discussion had started in facebook around it. now it has been > removed by both youtube and facebook. and along with it has > disappeared all the discussions and comments. obviously it was a > management decision. why they removed it no-one would know. Right to > Information do not ever apply to corporate bodies anyway. > > Both facebook and youtube has become critical space to see, circulate > and discuss many current events. but this kind of arbitrary removal of > material clearly shows that this is a very unreliable space and need > to be backed up with other more secured spaces in the net. > > warmly > > jeebesh > > Not only will corporate bodies act as they see fit, so just forget about freedom of information (just as forget about the right to be there when you enter a commercial mall) but also, and that is the true face of their power politics: they will never, ever, explain, let alone discuss, their reasons. And there is of course no recourse, judicial or otherwise. And guess what: it's the wet dream of the state (every state, anywhere) to become & behave just like that. Meanwhile people could start thinking about their usage of corporate social networks & other web 2.0 tools, and switch to non-business alternatives, like http://identi.ca/ But then, when you see a 'noted' (as they say in India) international activist telling the world cold she now only communicates thru FaceBook you start despairing... Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos! From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 15:23:58 2010 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 15:23:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Missing Humour in Religion-Jawed Naqvi(in Dawn) Message-ID: http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/jawed-naqvi-missing-humour-in-religion-990 *Sartaj, the impish waif, would double as house help and resident clown when one day my mother assigned him the onerous task of accompanying Zaheerun Bua to her first and only movie.* Zaheerun in her late 50s was her begum sahab’s treasured cook and proved to be as pious a Muslim as she was illiterate. In fact, her cinema outing had a religious purpose. The 90-minute film called Khaana-i-Khuda, or house of God, was a pioneering attempt in the 1970s to turn the joys of Haj into an audio-video spectacle for many lacking the wherewithal to make the prescribed journey. To Zaheerun, the film offered a chance to experience the mandated pilgrimage without having the basic ability to read the Quran. In his late teens, Sartaj had worked as an errand boy for Mrs Puri in the Lucknow neighbourhood where he had masqueraded as a Hindu boy with the universally respected name of Gopal. It remains a mystery whether Mrs Puri gave him that name to pre-empt embarrassment with orthodox guests, or had Sartaj adopted a nom de guerre to ward off imminent unemployment. When her husband was transferred to Delhi, Mrs Puri handed over Gopal to my mother’s care. The fact that he was a Muslim boy was revealed years later when a marriage proposal arrived for Sartaj. So off Zaheerun Bua went to watch Khana-i-Khuda at Ashok Talkies, a stuffy hall with poor ventilation located in the decaying former Shia bastion of old Lucknow. Sartaj loved the songs of leading ladies from the old Indian cinema and was least interested in a movie without music. As the lights were dimmed, Zaheerun covered her head in devout obeisance. The first visual was a promotion for a popular frothy detergent. As soon the bubbles mushroomed on the screen, Sartaj poked Zaheerun in the ribs and whispered in mock Avadhi: “Arrey dekh le aab-i-jamjam.” His reference to the holy water of Zam Zam was enough to send the cook into paroxysms of devout exultation. Zaheerun has since passed away and Sartaj is nursing his bad knees. Their story continues to regale the family and the neighbourhood. Religion without humour is a poisoned chalice. It has led to still smouldering ethnic wars and spawned entrenched prejudices with tragic consequences. Not without ironical help from secular technology, it has evolved into the cult of the suicide bomber. And it is a mistake to believe that the world has not had a duplicitous view of this. When it liked them as suicidal missionaries it celebrated them as mujahideen. When they fell foul of the dominant global worldview they were condemned as jihadis. In an essential way mujahideen and jihadis not only share a common etymology but also the fickle attention span of their changing patrons. It was not too long ago that Muslim poets and men of letters were open and casually normal about religion. Ghalib defined his creed as half Muslim — he drank wine but didn’t eat pork. Would he have survived in today’s Iran or Saudi Arabia, or even India and Pakistan much less Afghanistan? Allama Iqbal is celebrated as a great Muslim thinker. Sample his views on the Muslim clerics he loathed in the widely quoted verse: “Main bhi haazir tha wahaan zabt-i-sukhan kar na saka, haq se jab Hazrat-i-mulla ko mila izn-i-behisht....” When God awarded the cleric his promised place in paradise, Iqbal mocked the decision and wondered if the religious bigot would be able to savour the Bacchus-like feast arranged for the humourless mullah. “Di muezzin ne shab-i-wasl azaan pichchli raat, Hai kambakht ko kis waqt khuda yaad aaya.” It was Muslim rule in Delhi when Daagh Dehalvi wrote the verse without any fear of reprisal. I have grown up with Hindu boys for whom Ram Lila — a folk theatre form, which celebrates the exiled god’s journey home — was all about ribald dialogues. Writer Khushwant Singh must have earned millions publishing collections of Sikh jokes. After 1984 something has changed. That was when thousands of Sikhs were slaughtered on the streets of Delhi. There is no dearth of Jewish jokes on Jewish websites. Some Christian scholars are seriously pursuing the nagging doubt whether Jesus was in fact a woman. They are chided by the church but hardly ever threatened. Therefore, there is hardly anything seriously worrying about an insane hate-monger in Florida who might want to burn the holy book of a rival religion. Such people need psychiatric help not televised political denunciations. “I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths, from evangelical Christians to Jewish rabbis, as well as secular US leaders and opinion-makers,” declaimed Hillary Clinton after an obviously hallucinating Florida pastor was condemned by everybody for his threat to burn the Quran. “Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. Many of you know that in 1790, George Washington wrote to a synagogue in Newport, Rhode Island, that this country will give ‘to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance’,” the US secretary of state asserted. Gen David Petraeus, the US commander in Afghanistan was more practical. He expressed the fear that the sacrilege could ignite violence against American troops in Kabul. Clinton and Petraeus might wish to focus with greater sincerity on a policy for a quick exit from Afghanistan and Iraq, as opposed to pitching themselves as saviours of beleaguered Muslims. At present, given the brouhaha over a proposed Islamic centre near ground zero in New York, there is room for a nagging suspicion that both the Florida event and the proposed monument to American secularism are handy tools for the Obama administration to appear more agreeable at home than it ever could be abroad ahead of US Senate polls. Sartaj and Zaheerun Bua were both Muslims. They could sort out their own differences, or not sort them out ever. It’s their business. If the world wants to do Muslims or any other group a favour it should think of a strategy to make ordinary people in places like Afghanistan laugh and smile, not invade their countries in a deviously insatiable quest to usher their controversial version of democracy or development. What would help the world become less condescending towards those it claims to comfort is the knowledge that before foreign troops pillaged Afghanistan Pathans could tell a good Pathan joke. How many of those jokes does President Obama know? A good one from him can make all the difference this Eid. *The writer is Dawn’s correspondent in Delhi. * *jawednaqvi at gmail.com* -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Sep 9 15:36:46 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 15:36:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Missing Humour in Religion-Jawed Naqvi(in Dawn) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9591379B-D546-4E51-A673-EAB3215B2185@sarai.net> Dear Rashneek Thank you for this. One needs humour, at all times, especially in dark times. And only those who have no confidence in their beliefs can refuse to laugh at what they hold sacred. Here's to humour and to heresy, to each according to their needs, from each according to their capacities. : ) best, Shuddha On 09-Sep-10, at 3:23 PM, rashneek kher wrote: > http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the- > newspaper/columnists/jawed-naqvi-missing-humour-in-religion-990 > > *Sartaj, the impish waif, would double as house help and resident > clown when > one day my mother assigned him the onerous task of accompanying > Zaheerun Bua > to her first and only movie.* > > Zaheerun in her late 50s was her begum sahab’s treasured cook and > proved to > be as pious a Muslim as she was illiterate. In fact, her cinema > outing had a > religious purpose. > > The 90-minute film called Khaana-i-Khuda, or house of God, was a > pioneering > attempt in the 1970s to turn the joys of Haj into an audio-video > spectacle > for many lacking the wherewithal to make the prescribed journey. To > Zaheerun, the film offered a chance to experience the mandated > pilgrimage > without having the basic ability to read the Quran. > > In his late teens, Sartaj had worked as an errand boy for Mrs Puri > in the > Lucknow neighbourhood where he had masqueraded as a Hindu boy with the > universally respected name of Gopal. It remains a mystery whether > Mrs Puri > gave him that name to pre-empt embarrassment with orthodox guests, > or had > Sartaj adopted a nom de guerre to ward off imminent unemployment. > > When her husband was transferred to Delhi, Mrs Puri handed over > Gopal to my > mother’s care. The fact that he was a Muslim boy was revealed years > later > when a marriage proposal arrived for Sartaj. > > So off Zaheerun Bua went to watch Khana-i-Khuda at Ashok Talkies, a > stuffy > hall with poor ventilation located in the decaying former Shia > bastion of > old Lucknow. Sartaj loved the songs of leading ladies from the old > Indian > cinema and was least interested in a movie without music. As the > lights were > dimmed, Zaheerun covered her head in devout obeisance. > > The first visual was a promotion for a popular frothy detergent. As > soon the > bubbles mushroomed on the screen, Sartaj poked Zaheerun in the ribs > and > whispered in mock Avadhi: “Arrey dekh le aab-i-jamjam.” His > reference to the > holy water of Zam Zam was enough to send the cook into paroxysms of > devout > exultation. > > Zaheerun has since passed away and Sartaj is nursing his bad knees. > Their > story continues to regale the family and the neighbourhood. > > Religion without humour is a poisoned chalice. It has led to still > smouldering ethnic wars and spawned entrenched prejudices with tragic > consequences. Not without ironical help from secular technology, it > has > evolved into the cult of the suicide bomber. And it is a mistake to > believe > that the world has not had a duplicitous view of this. > > When it liked them as suicidal missionaries it celebrated them as > mujahideen. When they fell foul of the dominant global worldview > they were > condemned as jihadis. In an essential way mujahideen and jihadis > not only > share a common etymology but also the fickle attention span of their > changing patrons. > > It was not too long ago that Muslim poets and men of letters were > open and > casually normal about religion. Ghalib defined his creed as half > Muslim — he > drank wine but didn’t eat pork. Would he have survived in today’s > Iran or > Saudi Arabia, or even India and Pakistan much less Afghanistan? > > Allama Iqbal is celebrated as a great Muslim thinker. Sample his > views on > the Muslim clerics he loathed in the widely quoted verse: “Main bhi > haazir > tha wahaan zabt-i-sukhan kar na saka, haq se jab Hazrat-i-mulla ko > mila > izn-i-behisht....” When God awarded the cleric his promised place in > paradise, Iqbal mocked the decision and wondered if the religious > bigot > would be able to savour the Bacchus-like feast arranged for the > humourless > mullah. > > “Di muezzin ne shab-i-wasl azaan pichchli raat, Hai kambakht ko kis > waqt > khuda yaad aaya.” It was Muslim rule in Delhi when Daagh Dehalvi > wrote the > verse without any fear of reprisal. I have grown up with Hindu boys > for whom > Ram Lila — a folk theatre form, which celebrates the exiled god’s > journey > home — was all about ribald dialogues. Writer Khushwant Singh must > have > earned millions publishing collections of Sikh jokes. After 1984 > something > has changed. That was when thousands of Sikhs were slaughtered on the > streets of Delhi. > > There is no dearth of Jewish jokes on Jewish websites. Some Christian > scholars are seriously pursuing the nagging doubt whether Jesus was > in fact > a woman. They are chided by the church but hardly ever threatened. > Therefore, there is hardly anything seriously worrying about an insane > hate-monger in Florida who might want to burn the holy book of a rival > religion. Such people need psychiatric help not televised political > denunciations. > > “I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this > disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American > religious leaders > of all faiths, from evangelical Christians to Jewish rabbis, as > well as > secular US leaders and opinion-makers,” declaimed Hillary Clinton > after an > obviously hallucinating Florida pastor was condemned by everybody > for his > threat to burn the Quran. > > “Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very > beginning of > our nation. Many of you know that in 1790, George Washington wrote > to a > synagogue in Newport, Rhode Island, that this country will give ‘to > bigotry > no sanction, to persecution no assistance’,” the US secretary of state > asserted. Gen David Petraeus, the US commander in Afghanistan was more > practical. He expressed the fear that the sacrilege could ignite > violence > against American troops in Kabul. > > Clinton and Petraeus might wish to focus with greater sincerity on > a policy > for a quick exit from Afghanistan and Iraq, as opposed to pitching > themselves as saviours of beleaguered Muslims. At present, given the > brouhaha over a proposed Islamic centre near ground zero in New > York, there > is room for a nagging suspicion that both the Florida event and the > proposed > monument to American secularism are handy tools for the Obama > administration > to appear more agreeable at home than it ever could be abroad ahead > of US > Senate polls. > > Sartaj and Zaheerun Bua were both Muslims. They could sort out > their own > differences, or not sort them out ever. It’s their business. If the > world > wants to do Muslims or any other group a favour it should think of a > strategy to make ordinary people in places like Afghanistan laugh > and smile, > not invade their countries in a deviously insatiable quest to usher > their > controversial version of democracy or development. > > What would help the world become less condescending towards those > it claims > to comfort is the knowledge that before foreign troops pillaged > Afghanistan > Pathans could tell a good Pathan joke. How many of those jokes does > President Obama know? A good one from him can make all the > difference this > Eid. > > *The writer is Dawn’s correspondent in Delhi. > * > *jawednaqvi at gmail.com* > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 16:30:36 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 04:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <973876.89989.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Inder   You obviously have no sense of or respect for being truthful about what the other person has said or you yourself have said   Kshmendra --- On Tue, 9/7/10, Inder Salim wrote: From: Inder Salim Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. To: "reader-list" Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 8:20 PM Dear Kshmendra ji In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it go to dogs, anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to corruption ( CWG), decay of food grains etc, how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for the safety of society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial watchers) , we should actually close down all the Art institutions in India and hand over to religious preachers or some corporate houses which can give them some money for buying properties abroad. we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am wondering even why i posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against Hussain paintings, but none against poor people who live under bridges. We have no desire to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below poverty line population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, head piece filled with straw." This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( khajuraho etc ), its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all ancient text ), but what we love is territory, flag,  army and tight disciplined bureaucracy. We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but desire for lean blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to liberate ... Mera Bharat Mahaan love is On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Inder > > It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake. > > The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. > > On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no great reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable if Nehru Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did not want to risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before taking the action though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. > > Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to "saffron". In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda. > > If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step forward and give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these whines about "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" and "decaying food grains" > > You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things addressed by your own participation in the political processes or interventions through RTI and Courts of Law. > > Kshmendra > > PS. Do you have anything other than whines? > > > --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > To: "reader-list" > Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM > > Thanks dear Kshmendra > > "This is the > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." > > > well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands > of saffron brigade > but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our > politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like > CWG > > This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing words > it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other > sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad > > best > is > > > On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms > > -- > > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist > > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the > > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. > > > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli > > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, > > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a > > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of > > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad > > taste and created controversy". > > > > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' > > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi > > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the > > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune > > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr > > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude > > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. > > > > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to > > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said > > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent > > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. > > > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any > > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru > > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings > > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to > > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on > > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and > > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and > > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do > > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public > > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. > > > > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the > > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as > > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the > > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on > > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits > > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind > > Faith' to be controversial." > > > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded > > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. > > > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - > > Mumbai - City - The Times of India > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 16:39:55 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 04:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Some more Idiotspeak from Giorgiana Violante Message-ID: <412757.96949.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "I am being hunted by Indian intelligence for telling the truth on Kashmir"   By Giorgiana Violante on Wednesday, September 8th, 2010   “Dear Giorgiana, I think your article has created ripples and has not gone well with the Intelligence Agencies of the Govt. So they are looking for you. C.I.D. department wants all your particulars. I am apprehensive they might frame you in some case or something. So it would be advisable to delay your visit. You don’t know the ways and the paths our police works on.”   I have received this email, amongst others,  after an article appeared in the printed press and online, in which I wrote about the unlawful brutality  of Indian Army troops in Kashmir. How interesting that I am being hounded like a criminal for reporting upon the criminal behaviour of the troops lording it over the Kashmir Valley. If the Indian Government had been instructing their troops to behave in accordance with moral standards of  law enforcement then why have they sent their government monkeys out in search of me for reporting upon the reality of the situation?   I have been advised to lie low and not board any internal flights or do anything else that would involve showing my documents as I can expect to have drugs planted on my person at the airport or in my hotel room or some other such cheap trick characteristic of uncivilized countries. But I am staying in a hotel, and they do, of course, have a copy of my passport. As I lay in bed last night staring at the ceiling at 3 am with a head full of paranoid CID sleeplessness I vaguely considered procuring myself a dog or a husband or some other smelly aggressive entity as a protective measure. But I am not sure which option disgusted me more. Not normally given to fear, possibly the most repulsive realization is that I fell prey to it. After all, if the CID were clever enough to find me and stupid enough to do anything to me then they would have a few foreign embassies on their back given my multiple nationality status.Thank God I am not Kashmiri, and am therefore, probably, relatively safe.   But if the government has nothing to hide why have I had to go into hiding?   Ironically, I am presently living in an army cantonment area somewhere in India. It was my intention to try and speak to army officers here, in order to understand why the troops in Kashmir behave the way they do. However after having met a number of  men with family histories of government army employment, I am even more shocked and perplexed. The army officers I have encountered here are amongst the most upright, morally laudable gentlemen I have ever met in my life. I have rarely, if ever, met men and boys of such upstanding manners and honourable comportment. When they talk to me they don’t even dare raise their eyes to look at me.   Whereas in Kashmir I was often prone to being followed by army officers hissing and clucking at me as if it were I who was the farm animal, rather than they. They’d often call repellently after me as I walked by, things like ‘Hey sexy, you are looking so hot in Indian dress. Hey sexy, Hey! Come back.’ If it was a group of them instead of just one, they would all start laughing thereafter. In Europe a man in uniform would get hauled before the courts for accosting a female in the street without just legal cause. But in Kashmir on many occasions over the past year I have been stopped in the street in a very formal manner by Indian army officers who start by asking for my name and passport, then my place of residence in Kashmir and invariably the questioning ends in queries as to my marital status. It becomes suddenly clear to me at this point that the reason I have been stopped is purely due to sexual motivation. A few times I have then found the same man  lingering around outside my hotel for a few days. I had to change hotels twice last year before I learnt to simply keep walking when men in army uniform asked me to stop.   However here I am, being helped by Indian Army employees, instructing me as to how to avoid the trouble that I am facing from the government they work for but do not trust. I am receiving this kind treatment from army officers following an article , which they know I wrote, about what ‘pigs’ the Indian Army forces in Kashmir are. Clearly there is a vast schism between the bestial thugs sent to lord it over Kashmir and these decent individuals I find myself amongst here. One of them is trying to procure false documents for me as, apparently, if I am tracked down by the CID I can expect to be subjected to a nice dose of imprisonment full of rape and AIDS, after having some false crime hung around my neck.   The manager of my hotel keeps asking me if I want my sheets cleaned. Now I have never ever heard of anyone in India asking if you want clean sheets. Mostly they don’t use sheets and the ones you find on the beds of even the expensive hotels are usually dubiously  littered with pubic hairs and a vague scent of vulgar perfume which you can  assume to be  the remnants of some rich businessman and his whore. Expensive hotels look cleaner but feel dirtier beneath the surface. This hotel I am staying in is relatively cheap and the manager’s insistence about coming into my room to change the sheets is making me increasingly paranoid. I keep wondering if I would find clean sheets (finally!) but also find something vaguely drug-like hidden under them. His peculiar sheet persistence keeps tempting/scaring me but I am not sure I am willing to risk my freedom for a couple of clean sheets.   Last night some English girl came up to me and asked if I wanted to go to a Sheesha bar with her and some friends. “Oh thank you,” I replied, “but I’m vegetarian”. She looked very perplexed and then explained that Sheesha bars are places where people smoke big pipes full of drugs. I had thought it was an abbreviation of sheesh kebab. I waited until she turned back to her friends and then quickly scuttled out of the restaurant. I am beginning to think that one of my professors back in Kashmir was right when, every time I got into trouble for saying or doing the wrong thing, he would tell me that he was not angry because it was just but because I was too innocent. I rather expect he will be feeling less indulgent now. My ‘innocence’ denotes that I never considered the trouble my previous article would cause the people who had housed me back in Kashmir and helped with my research project concerning   a comparative  study  of  Kashmir  Mysticism, Shaivism, Buddhism, and  Sufism.   If I am an innocent (albeit of idiot stock) then I would definitely say that some of the young army cadets I am meeting here exceed me in innocence (of the noble breed) by a long stretch. I cannot fathom a single one of these boys ever behaving in the way the troops do in Kashmir. Not even in ten years. I consider it a strict impossibility. I therefore finally understand at least one thing, that being the fact that Indians are always so unwilling to accept the possibility that their armed forces might be violating their rights of power in Kashmir. When the army is composed of boys like the ones I am presently meeting, and if I had never been to Kashmir, I too would have assumed that all the reports of unprovoked violence and rape by the forces was pure Kashmiri fabrication.   *** Strangely enough it was one of the young army cadets who raised the subject of rape with me here. Even more strange was the fact that he has Pandits in his family and yet he was still capable of viewing the Kashmir situation with equilateral appraisal. I asked him, the same as I ask all of them, how it is possible that the troops behave in that way in Kashmir when all the individuals I was meeting from army families here in this cantonement seem so very decent. I asked whether the forces sent to Kashmir were a totally separate breed, separately trained and instructed… I imagined them being the rejects, too mentally deficient to make it into the army proper, of intellect so low and bestial that it would be considered  hazardous to their own health to be left alone in a room with a plastic fork, let alone let loose on an Indian State with batons and guns. Where in Hell are the Indian Government dredging up the thugs that they send off to Kashmir? Are they separately trained in the basics of  moral codes of order in the line of law enforcement?   “No No, I don’t know actually. But you know it’s not that the men are different to us. It’s just the atmosphere in Kashmir that makes them act like that. If I have the freedom to go into peoples’ houses raping women ‘n all and not get in trouble for it of course I will do it, he na? It is the atmosphere. They can do what they want. Do you know how many women have been raped in Kashmir?”   “I know how many have been reported over the past twenty years,” I replied. “And I also know that in this part of the world that signifies that the actual number is probably twenty times higher. That makes for an awful lot of noughts.”   I am incapable of believing this boy’s opinion. I do not believe that it is possible for normal boys to turn rotten enough to rape women in villages, beat children in the streets, simply because of the prevalent conditions in Kashmir permitting them such bestial largesse. Truly I am utterly confused.   All I understand now is the reason why Indians are so unwilling to believe the truth about what their government is doing to Kashmir. They are incapable of believing it for the same reason that I am incapable of believing that the army men I am meeting here would ever be posted in Kashmir, or are even trained at the same base camps. The forces in Kashmir are clearly being allowed/instructed to behave in total contravention to all honourable codes of law enforcement. I will never begin to understand the reasons behind this because fortunately my brain is not sufficiently filthy to get to grips with the inner machinations of politics. But how can Kashmiris be expected to feel as if they are a part of India when they have never been treated as such? Is it any wonder that a growing number of Kashmir’s desperate and hopeless youth is being seduced by the dubious pro-Pakistan preachings of bearded wahabis veiling their politics beneath the mantle of religion?   People need to cling to something. It is hard to live without hope. India has never given Kashmiris any. No hope, no dignity and no respect. They have been pushed into a corner which is beginning to look like Pakistan. Thanks to India’s policy on Kashmir over the past twenty years, Kashmiris hate Indians, mistaking them for their government, and Indians think Kashmiris are just troublesome, stone pelters instead of seeing them simply as their brothers, in trouble. From mgowhar at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 22:51:30 2010 From: mgowhar at gmail.com (mgowhar) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 22:51:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Facebook and Youtube In-Reply-To: <6160fe8a764bacedd261b8946920b018.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> References: <58CA0223-23F7-4B89-965D-FBFB076434FC@sarai.net> <6160fe8a764bacedd261b8946920b018.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Dear all, May be we are already on the way to create new secured spaces on the net... Here is the link... The fact that it is being removed again and again shows to what extend the voice of people can be muffled... Removed even from youtube... *Note : *Women folk requested to avoid...Contains explicit footage...!! http://www.jammukashmir.tv/9-Human-Rights/Mature-Kas hmiri-boys-forced-to-walk-nude-on-the-road-by-the-indian-security.html Regards, Gowhar Farooq. From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 23:23:01 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 23:23:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: <973876.89989.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <973876.89989.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra i always found you witty and clever while responding to different mails, but my respect for  sharp intelligent reflections was always sincere, but sorry to say i find your strings not tuned at the moment better if you explain simply what offended you most, if not for me, but for the benefit of others..... this is not a court room, there is no judge, and so let us not play like lawyers ( with due respect to their profession ) regards and love is On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Inder > > You obviously have no sense of or respect for being truthful about what the other person has said or you yourself have said > > Kshmendra > > --- On Tue, 9/7/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > To: "reader-list" > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 8:20 PM > > Dear Kshmendra ji > > In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it go to dogs, > anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to corruption ( CWG), decay > of food grains etc, > how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for the safety of > society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial watchers) , > > we should actually close down all the Art institutions in India and > hand over to religious preachers or some corporate houses which can > give them some money for buying properties abroad. > > we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am wondering even why i > posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against Hussain paintings, > but none against poor people who live under bridges. We have no desire > to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below poverty line > population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, head piece filled > with straw." > > This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( khajuraho etc ), > its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all ancient text ), > but what we love is territory, flag,  army and tight disciplined > bureaucracy. > > We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but desire for lean > blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to liberate ... > > Mera Bharat Mahaan > > love > is > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > Dear Inder > > > > It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake. > > > > The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. > > > > On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no great reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable if Nehru Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did not want to risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before taking the action though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. > > > > Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to "saffron". In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda. > > > > If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step forward and give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these whines about "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" and "decaying food grains" > > > > You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things addressed by your own participation in the political processes or interventions through RTI and Courts of Law. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > PS. Do you have anything other than whines? > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > > From: Inder Salim > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM > > > > Thanks dear Kshmendra > > > > "This is the > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." > > > > > > well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands > > of saffron brigade > > but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our > > politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like > > CWG > > > > This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing words > > it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other > > sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad > > > > best > > is > > > > > > On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > > To: "reader-list" > > > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms > > > -- > > > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist > > > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the > > > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the > > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. > > > > > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli > > > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, > > > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a > > > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of > > > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad > > > taste and created controversy". > > > > > > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' > > > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi > > > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the > > > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune > > > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr > > > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude > > > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. > > > > > > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to > > > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said > > > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent > > > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. > > > > > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any > > > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru > > > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings > > > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to > > > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on > > > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and > > > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and > > > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do > > > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public > > > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. > > > > > > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the > > > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as > > > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the > > > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on > > > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits > > > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind > > > Faith' to be controversial." > > > > > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded > > > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. > > > > > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - > > > Mumbai - City - The Times of India > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 23:30:25 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 23:30:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: <973876.89989.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <973876.89989.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra i always found you witty and clever while responding to different mails, but my respect for sharp intelligent reflections was always sincere, but sorry to say i find your strings not tuned at the moment better if you explain simply what offended you most, if not for me, but for the benefit of others..... this is not a court room, there is no judge, and so let us not play like lawyers ( with due respect to their profession ) regards and love is On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Inder > > You obviously have no sense of or respect for being truthful about what the > other person has said or you yourself have said > > Kshmendra > > > --- On *Tue, 9/7/10, Inder Salim * wrote: > > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > To: "reader-list" > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 8:20 PM > > > Dear Kshmendra ji > > In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it go to dogs, > anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to corruption ( CWG), decay > of food grains etc, > how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for the safety of > society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial watchers) , > > we should actually close down all the Art institutions in India and > hand over to religious preachers or some corporate houses which can > give them some money for buying properties abroad. > > we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am wondering even why i > posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against Hussain paintings, > but none against poor people who live under bridges. We have no desire > to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below poverty line > population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, head piece filled > with straw." > > This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( khajuraho etc ), > its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all ancient text ), > but what we love is territory, flag, army and tight disciplined > bureaucracy. > > We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but desire for lean > blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to liberate ... > > Mera Bharat Mahaan > > love > is > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > > > > Dear Inder > > > > It would have been appreciable if you had accepted that there is no > reference to Govt in the report and you made a mistake. > > > > The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. > > > > On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I personally see no great > reason justifying the action taken but it would be understandable if Nehru > Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' environment did not want to > risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" before taking the action > though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. > > > > Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the hands of saffron > brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not confine it to > "saffron". In its current form it becomes worthless one-sided propaganda. > > > > If you put great value of your own imagination as compared to > "unimaginative people " running the country, then please step forward and > give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead of these whines about > "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying institutions" and > "decaying food grains" > > > > You can see your "imaginative" proposals for rectifying things addressed > by your own participation in the political processes or interventions > through RTI and Courts of Law. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > PS. Do you have anything other than whines? > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim > > wrote: > > > > From: Inder Salim > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > To: "reader-list" > > > > Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM > > > > Thanks dear Kshmendra > > > > "This is the > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show." > > > > > > well, i too would not like to see Govt directly playing in the hands > > of saffron brigade > > but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( impotency ) of our > > politicians who only think about how to mint money from things like > > CWG > > > > This is a country run by most unimaginative people, i am not mincing > words > > it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is suffering, all other > > sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food grains storage. sad > > > > best > > is > > > > > > On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any part. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. > > > To: "reader-list" > > > > > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms > > > -- > > > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an Aurangabad-based artist > > > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai to discontinue the > > > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for three days. This is the > > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art show. > > > > > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a complaint with the Worli > > > police. He said this was a violation of his right to express himself, > > > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had succumbed to pressure from a > > > saffron group, a claim denied by the management. Assistant director of > > > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said the exhibits "were in bad > > > taste and created controversy". > > > > > > The two paintings in question are titled 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' > > > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi > > > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist said he got the > > > inspiration for this piece after reading the 'Pune Karar' or the Pune > > > Pact, which happened after an agreement between Gandhi and Dr > > > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, 'Blind Faith', a nude > > > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative position. > > > > > > "When the gallery took objection to my exhibits, I was prepared to > > > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)'," said > > > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based on a type of puja prevalent > > > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman was not a goddess. > > > > > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 to 3 without any > > > controversy. But after complaints from an "anonymous caller", Nehru > > > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to Nandkumar. "The paintings > > > were of a nature that could give rise to controversy leading to > > > undesirable situation," read the letter. "Therefore, in the light on > > > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's Art Gallery Rules and > > > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove these two paintings and > > > continue with your exhibition with the remaining paintings. If you do > > > not remove these paintings, the art gallery will be closed for public > > > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the letter. > > > > > > When asked why it took the management three days to discontinue the > > > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began only on September 1 as > > > Nandkumar put up his art work by late evening on August 31. At the > > > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and returned to work on > > > September 2. I then got a call from a person who said the exhibits > > > were objectionable. I took a round of the gallery and found 'Blind > > > Faith' to be controversial." > > > > > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police protection and has demanded > > > that the exhibition should run its course till September 6. > > > > > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery to call off art show - > > > Mumbai - City - The Times of India > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Fri Sep 10 00:01:24 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Facebook and Youtube Message-ID: <235195.6064.qm@web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 9/10/10, gowhar fazli wrote: > From: gowhar fazli > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Facebook and Youtube > To: "mgowhar" > Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 12:00 AM > Dear namesake, > > Parts of it ran on NDTV barkha show sometime back... > normalized in the background as though this were the staple > and ordinary footage of Kashmir protesters shouting for > Azadi, pelting stones or being carried in the coffins that > we have gotten so used to.  Do not expect an outrage > or  a trial like the one around Abu Gharib incident in > India because Indian self-respect is far lower than that of > the Americans.  The nakedness of it all  does not > outrage but a few inconsequential ones. > > Best > Gowhar Fazili > > --- On Thu, 9/9/10, mgowhar > wrote: > > > From: mgowhar > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Facebook and Youtube > > To: "Patrice Riemens" > > Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" , > "Jeebesh" > > Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 10:51 PM > > Dear all, > > > > May be we are already on the way to create new > secured > > spaces on the net... > > > > Here is the link... > > The fact that it is being removed again and again > shows to > > what extend the > > voice of people can be muffled... Removed even from > > youtube... > > > > *Note : *Women folk requested to avoid...Contains > explicit > > footage...!! > > > > http://www.jammukashmir.tv/9-Human-Rights/Mature-Kas > > > hmiri-boys-forced-to-walk-nude-on-the-road-by-the-indian-security.html > > > > Regards, > > Gowhar Farooq. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       > From mgowhar at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 00:31:11 2010 From: mgowhar at gmail.com (mgowhar) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:31:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Facebook and Youtube In-Reply-To: <235195.6064.qm@web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <235195.6064.qm@web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Gowhar (Namesake).... We expect when we trust...And who else can explain about the trust in Indian establishment than a Kashmiri....Justice was the first casualty in Kashmir...So expecting justice will amount to foolishness... But then there are some Indians with conscience...You cannot convince people without hearts...For they are more Indians and less humans... Of course there is no comparison between India and America, although both act jingoistic, there is a hell lot of difference between the establishments... There are countless cases like "Blackwater", even worse....But who cares... And this case is even shameful than Abu Gharib...Atleast the prisoners at Abu Gharib were not paraded "publically" in front of their own mothers and sisters...and unlike GOI they did not threaten to Internet operators...they did not register cases against people who circulated it...nor did they remove the links and data from Internet to hide their acts... Regards Gowhar Farooq From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Fri Sep 10 00:39:49 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Facebook and Youtube Message-ID: <15495.80914.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Gowhar, Mayoos ho ke paltien jab har taraf se nazrein Dil hi ko but banaya dil hi se guftagu ki! That sums up the conversation between you and me ;) love Gowhar ! From yousufism at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 00:45:50 2010 From: yousufism at gmail.com (M Yousuf) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:15:50 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Eid message from Kashmir Message-ID: *In the name of Allah * Assalamualaikum, On the occasion of Idd-ul-Fitr, we wish you Eid Mubarak. Let us pledge on this day of *Rehmat *that no celebrations and ceremonies, no worldly concerns and petty engagements will distract our spiritual engagement with this pious movement. Our struggle is not only against tyrant India, but also against forgetfulness. Let us not forget those who have sacrificed their today for our better tomorrow. Their memories are our treasures; their memories are our weapons; their memories are our direction. Dear country men and women, today Kashmir freedom struggle has reached a new zenith, and it is all because of the blessings of Allah SWT and of course due the unflinching and defiant resistance by all of you. We are aware of your sufferings and sacrifices. We are aware of your contributions and losses. We are aware of your concerns and wishes. And we are also aware of our collective dream of freedom from Indian occupation. Your sufferings, sacrifices, contributions, losses and concerns are an investment for the success of this movement – an investment for long lasting peace and freedom. We assure you that we will succeed inshaAllah. We can see the clouds of oppression passing off. We can see the spark of freedom in the eyes of our young men and women. India stands weak. Your determination and love for the movement has undoubtedly defeated the morale of Indian soldiers. That day is not far, when they will leave Kashmir for good. They can kill us but not our dream. They can delay the freedom but can’t stop the success to embrace our nation. We may not be very strong. We may not be very wise. We may not have enough resources. We don’t have weapons to fight enemy. We may not have world opinion on our side, but you, our beloved people are the strength of liberation struggle. Without you this revolution is impossible. With you we will defeat every design of the Indian occupation. With you we will conquer any means of subjugation used by India. Dear people, with you and ALLAH on our side, we succeed; without you we fail. We need you for this struggle to succeed. Our critics, oppressors and the collaborators show ‘concern’ about the future of Kashmir after freedom from India. Surprisingly they are concerned how we will survive after freedom, when they are not concerned about our present, when our children, who are our future, are being killed, maimed and brutalized. Tell them, nothing is better than freedom. Nothing can persuade us to continue living under occupation. Compatriots, ask them, would they like to live lives under oppression, discrimination and humiliation. If not, then why do they expect us to reconcile with injustice and tyranny. The oppression has to end, for which Indian occupation has to end. India is mother of all the problems for people of Jammu and Kashmir. For our occupiers and their Hindutva mindset, Kashmir is integral part of Hindu India. Kashmir is integral, Kashmiris are not and hence violence on us is legitimized by their intelligentsia, media and civil society. For them if people of Kashmir demand freedom, we should be silenced, killed, incarcerated, exiled and brutalized. With this racist and fascist nation, we can’t think of any shared future. They call us extremist when we are actually resisting their violent fascism. Our movement for freedom, for justice, against discrimination was never only for Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir. We always believed Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and Muslims form Jammu and Kashmir. Our struggle is not for territory, our struggle is for people. We believe in right of self-determination of all peoples within Jammu and Kashmir for the resolution, in which of course people will be free to vote for Pakistan, Independence or India. Let democratic exercise of referendum determine the future of Jammu and Kashmir. Brothers and sisters, India and its stooges in Kashmir show their false concern for our children’s education and the prosperity of our people. They are so well trained to lie – and lie to the people who they have been victimizing and exploiting. They expect all of us to fall prey to their machinations. They have tried this from last 63 years. They have failed in the past and you, our people, will have to fail them again. In last 3 months how many times did they impose curfew? More than 60 days people had to live under curfew. Does curfew not impede education? In last 3 months they have killed 70 people out of which 50 were students. In last 3 months they have arrested more than 2000 young men, most of whom were students. In last three months they have tortured thousands of people, majority amongst these torture survivors are students. Does killing, arresting and torturing students help education system of Jammu and Kashmir? We agree that the schooling has got affected but not the education, because what our youth have been learning from last 3 months, rather last 20 years is equally important. They have learnt lessons for survival, nation building, and resistance. Our students have been reading in the history books about British colonialism, Hitler’s pogrom against Jews, discrimination of black people in the western countries but here in Kashmir our children have experienced all these things first hand through Indian occupational troops. In 1947 we were deceived by India and its stooges because our people then were not very educated and could not understand their deceptions. Today Alhamdulilah our society is emancipated. Our society is well equipped with educated people. In 1947 and 2010 the major difference and advancement is our consciousness and education. So how can we not be concerned about the education of our children, who will be the protectors of our nation in future. Dear people please have faith in our programs which is an investment in the secure and free future of our children. Our today’s suffering will inshaAllah make the lives of our future generations safe, prosperous and joyous. We take this opportunity of reminding you about our collective responsibilities. We hope that all of us will try to accomplish these responsibilities at our local levels: 1. Establishment and strengthening of the Baitul Maal (relief) committees at each and every mohalla and village. Through these committees ensuring that no single soul sleeps hungry. Nobody suffers because of the non-availability of medicines and treatment. 2. Ensuring the Hurriyat program is followed in letter and spirit. 3. Help the injured of your area. Provide all necessary support for their treatment. 4. Through local Baitul Maal committees provide regular monetary support to those whose bread earners have been killed in last 20 years. 5. After identifying at local levels those young boys who advertently or inadvertently have been responsible for the loss of public property, counsel them and equip them with the understanding of dangers of victimized become victimizer. 6. Strengthening and widening the scope of community schools to ensure that even if schooling is to a certain extent affected, let education not suffer at all. Finally we would like to reiterate, that this is your movement, and we are only giving direction to this movement. Whenever you feel anyone of us is betraying or diluting your cause for freedom do not waste time in throwing us out of your lives – your struggle – your future. We all have to protect and carry forward this movement together. Unity in purpose and unity in action should always be the foundation of our movement. Wassalaam, Masarat Alam Bhat Acting General Secretary All Parties Hurriyat Conference From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 01:19:14 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 01:19:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. In-Reply-To: <794760.94224.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <794760.94224.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Gowhar Save me from my admirers said Oscar Wilde the other couplet is by Chacha Ghalib Hum kahan kay dana, kis hunar mein yakta be-sabab hua Ghalib, dushman aasman apna. I have nothing to declare my wisdom, or to show any talent I (Ghalib ) feel helplessness, and even Gods seem to oppose me a very rough translation for non-urdu wallas thanks anyway, should meet soon, thanks for posting stone pelting art image in FB. it is good to see, that artist are engaging EDD MUBARAK image is too is very good by Iftikar Jaffar mosque tomb through barbed wires the fact is that we are all very good people just a word here or there with love is On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 1:02 AM, gowhar fazli wrote: > Dear Inder, > > It hurts me to see someone make lose remarks against you.  But I do not have anything productive to contribute to the discussion at the moment that would improve on what you have to say.  What you write makes lots of sense to me and at times you are my inspiration. > > Thought i should tell you that. > > :) > gowhar > > --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Inder Salim wrote: > >> From: Inder Salim >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to shut down by Govt. >> To: "reader-list" >> Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 11:30 PM >> Dear Kshmendra >> i always found you witty and clever while responding to >> different mails, but >> my respect for  sharp intelligent reflections was >> always sincere, but sorry >> to say i find your strings not tuned at the moment >> >> better if you explain simply what offended you most, if not >> for me, but for >> the benefit of others..... this is not a court room, there >> is no judge, and >> so let us not play like lawyers ( with due respect to their >> profession ) >> >> >> regards >> and love >> is >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> >> > Dear Inder >> > >> > You obviously have no sense of or respect for being >> truthful about what the >> > other person has said or you yourself have said >> > >> > Kshmendra >> > >> > >> > --- On *Tue, 9/7/10, Inder Salim * >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: Inder Salim >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced to >> shut down by Govt. >> > To: "reader-list" >> > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 8:20 PM >> > >> > >> > Dear Kshmendra ji >> > >> > In a sense, you are right, who care about Art, let it >> go to dogs, >> > anyway, if we are actually so insensitive to >> corruption ( CWG), decay >> > of food grains etc, >> > how does it matter that art exhibitions are closed for >> the safety of >> > society. ( mostly middle class TV soap serial >> watchers) , >> > >> > we should actually close down all the Art institutions >> in India and >> > hand over to religious preachers or some corporate >> houses which can >> > give them some money for buying properties abroad. >> > >> > we have perhaps lost our aesthetic sense, i am >> wondering even why i >> > posted it on the list. We have lot of anger against >> Hussain paintings, >> > but none against poor people who live under bridges. >> We have no desire >> > to engage our thinking with our 40 percent below >> poverty line >> > population. "We are hallow men, we are shallow men, >> head piece filled >> > with straw." >> > >> > This country has no desire to love its own heritage ( >> khajuraho etc ), >> > its own culture, its own text on free flight ( as all >> ancient text ), >> > but what we love is territory, flag,  army and >> tight disciplined >> > bureaucracy. >> > >> > We actually love ladoos, and grow pot belied, but >> desire for lean >> > blonde girls for sexual fantasy , but dont yearn to >> liberate ... >> > >> > Mera Bharat Mahaan >> > >> > love >> > is >> > >> > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Dear Inder >> > > >> > > It would have been appreciable if you had >> accepted that there is no >> > reference to Govt in the report and you made a >> mistake. >> > > >> > > The 'centre' referred to is the Nehru Centre. >> > > >> > > On the face of it, as per mentioned details, I >> personally see no great >> > reason justifying the action taken but it would be >> understandable if Nehru >> > Centre being conscious of the fragile 'communal' >> environment did not want to >> > risk violence and maybe even consulted the "Govt" >> before taking the action >> > though that is not alluded to. That is sensible. >> > > >> > > Your comment about "Govt directly playing in the >> hands of saffron >> > brigade" would have been worthwhile if you did not >> confine it to >> > "saffron". In its current form it becomes worthless >> one-sided propaganda. >> > > >> > > If you put great value of your own imagination as >> compared to >> > "unimaginative people " running the country, then >> please step forward and >> > give some concrete and imaginative proposals instead >> of these whines about >> > "impotency" and "mint money from CWG" and "decaying >> institutions" and >> > "decaying food grains" >> > > >> > > You can see your "imaginative" proposals for >> rectifying things addressed >> > by your own participation in the political processes >> or interventions >> > through RTI and Courts of Law. >> > > >> > > Kshmendra >> > > >> > > PS. Do you have anything other than whines? >> > > >> > > >> > > --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Inder Salim > >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > From: Inder Salim >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced >> to shut down by Govt. >> > > To: "reader-list" >> > > >> > > Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:35 PM >> > > >> > > Thanks dear Kshmendra >> > > >> > > "This is the >> > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped an art >> show." >> > > >> > > >> > > well, i too would not like to see Govt directly >> playing in the hands >> > > of saffron brigade >> > > but that is unlikely. given the 'napusukta' ( >> impotency ) of our >> > > politicians who only think about how to mint >> money from things like >> > > CWG >> > > >> > > This is a country run by most unimaginative >> people, i am not mincing >> > words >> > > it is not only ' aesthetic' sector which is >> suffering, all other >> > > sensibile institutions are decaying, akin to food >> grains storage. sad >> > > >> > > best >> > > is >> > > >> > > >> > > On 9/6/10, Kshmendra Kaul > >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Nowhere does it say that the Govt played any >> part. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Inder Salim > >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > From: Inder Salim >> > > >> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Art Exhibition forced >> to shut down by Govt. >> > > > To: "reader-list" >> > > >> > > > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 10:14 PM >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms >> > > > -- >> > > > MUMBAI: Two "provocative" paintings by an >> Aurangabad-based artist >> > > > forced the Nehru Centre at Worli in Mumbai >> to discontinue the >> > > > exhibition on Saturday, after running it for >> three days. This is the >> > > > first time the centre has abruptly stopped >> an art show. >> > > > >> > > > Artist Nandkumar Jogdand (43) has lodged a >> complaint with the Worli >> > > > police. He said this was a violation of his >> right to express himself, >> > > > and that the trust-owned Nehru Centre had >> succumbed to pressure from a >> > > > saffron group, a claim denied by the >> management. Assistant director of >> > > > the Nehru Centre Art Gallery Nina Rege said >> the exhibits "were in bad >> > > > taste and created controversy". >> > > > >> > > > The two paintings in question are titled >> 'Gandhi (After Pune Karar)' >> > > > and 'Blind Faith'. The former depicts a >> dhoti clad Mahatma Gandhi >> > > > striking a victim with a Trishul. The artist >> said he got the >> > > > inspiration for this piece after reading the >> 'Pune Karar' or the Pune >> > > > Pact, which happened after an agreement >> between Gandhi and Dr >> > > > Babasaheb Ambedkar. In the second painting, >> 'Blind Faith', a nude >> > > > Hindu goddess is depicted in a provocative >> position. >> > > > >> > > > "When the gallery took objection to my >> exhibits, I was prepared to >> > > > remove 'Blind Faith' but not 'Gandhi (After >> Pune Karar)'," said >> > > > Nandkumar, adding that the latter is based >> on a type of puja prevalent >> > > > in parts of Karnataka, and that the woman >> was not a goddess. >> > > > >> > > > The exhibition was allowed from September 1 >> to 3 without any >> > > > controversy. But after complaints from an >> "anonymous caller", Nehru >> > > > Centre on Saturday issued a notification to >> Nandkumar. "The paintings >> > > > were of a nature that could give rise to >> controversy leading to >> > > > undesirable situation," read the letter. >> "Therefore, in the light on >> > > > Rule no. 3 under Conduct of Nehru Centre's >> Art Gallery Rules and >> > > > Regulations, we hereby direct you to remove >> these two paintings and >> > > > continue with your exhibition with the >> remaining paintings. If you do >> > > > not remove these paintings, the art gallery >> will be closed for public >> > > > viewing forthwith," said Rege in the >> letter. >> > > > >> > > > When asked why it took the management three >> days to discontinue the >> > > > exhibition, Rege said: "The exhibition began >> only on September 1 as >> > > > Nandkumar put up his art work by late >> evening on August 31. At the >> > > > time, I was visiting a sick colleague and >> returned to work on >> > > > September 2. I then got a call from a person >> who said the exhibits >> > > > were objectionable. I took a round of the >> gallery and found 'Blind >> > > > Faith' to be controversial." >> > > > >> > > > Meanwhile, Nandkumar has sought police >> protection and has demanded >> > > > that the exhibition should run its course >> till September 6. >> > > > >> > > > Read more: 'Provocative' work forces gallery >> to call off art show - >> > > > Mumbai - City - The Times of India >> > > > >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Provocative-work-forces-gallery-to-call-off-art-show/articleshow/6494012.cms#ixzz0yfraM43q >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and the city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 01:48:26 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 01:48:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chour ( idiot ) and Maskhara ( joker ) Message-ID: Chour means idiot in Kashmir. Chour has a given lack of common sense , and because of that he becomes butt of jokes in society. A chour is always different from other chour, but there are degrees of charer ( stupidity ) which enables ‘ us’ to function (performativity) more interestingly, and automatically renders a chour lovable to all. . Paradoxically, it is perhaps this ‘ charaer’ ( stupidity ) which sometimes gives us great insight about the exact nature of ‘self’. I have personally a long list of ‘ charer’ in my life, and still there is no end to the stupid things I do. May I dare to say, that every person in the world is a chour ( idiot ) to some extent, wittingly or unwittingly. On the other hand we have a word ‘Maskhar’ means banter or clown or even Bhands to some extent. Maskhars often find inspiration from a chour in society, which is full of them at any given point of time. So, maskhara actually is spokesperson of chear ( idiots), But a chour and a maskhara are finally two sides of the same coin, or say first cousins. In Kashmir people say, “ when a maskhara dies, people refuse to believe, because he may be acting ‘ dead’, who knows” I like ‘Maskharil. The act of maskhar in itself. Though I would like to be a serious maskhar , in life, but it is not easy, we know. The English equivalent for maskhara is queer, or even pervert, because he is given to natural speech, in daily life.. Danger of mediocrity plaguing us is much more in written speech, but a maskhara is known for his ability to deliver himself through natural speech.. Professionally or in life even, I see a Maskhara doing well, but not much in comparison to a Hero, who fights the villain, and bags the fairest of all : the heroine (see bollywood ). The side heroine goes to Maskhara or chour. But that is how unfortunately we are trained, but we better know the value of an idiot in any given situation. Read Hamlet, they are simply indispensable if one goes by the practice, not theory. “What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension, how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me; no, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so." -Hamlet Poets are born Maskharas, unless they are put on a regular dose of tragedies, which turn them melancholic. But the poem itself is Funoon-e-latifa. ( arts and crafts ). This charer comes out in the detail of each poem. And that contains all; “ wherever I go , I see a poet has been before” said Freud. There has to be a storey at hand at every turn of the event. Some imagination, some fun, some teasers, some acute pointers, singularities, ripping the core, perpetually. We too may notice that there is a core in each one of us, hence, ‘mazak’ ( joke) of the ‘self’ ( taken seriously ) becomes essential. All the jokes we know reside at the periphery., and there at the periphery we have space for every thing, say dancing, singing, jumping, and also lot of stupidity, wittingly or unwittingly. Here, I would not like to be reminded about the “binary opposition” obstructing the opening of further spaces. Better we bring in some radical thought, to rip, but smilingly. Life is about sensibilities, not some grand philosophy of the core/structure, but about freedom, and see how a tree grows, inheriting all the stages of a chour(idiot ). The ordinary, therefore, has many reasons to look more legible, than an isolated intellectuals. ( ideologues ) at the core. These intellectuals ( which includes our IAS babus/religious zealots and corporate thinkers etc ) who manage the affairs in the name of development, become winged monster, represented by a seated figure in the Mandala.. Ordinary People become nuts and bolts of that system, or simply oil and texture to run the machine effectively, Foucault’s explanation of Panopticism sit perfect. We are all therefore trapped, not inside the machine, but we all the machine itself. A chour perhaps knows the way out, without bothering about the key. Naturally, the thing(s) at the core, the privileged would automatically resist. A Maskhara on the periphery is careless about the machine, and even takes some conscious steps to break it radically. which is often brushed aside as aberration, by the clean collared Core representative/practitioner. This Maskhara on the other hand laughs at his vanities and cruelties, and actually fails to understand his sadistic way of living. So, a simple life charms him, and so many good qualities are innately embedded in him, . A good maskhara never cares about patenting of any intellectual properties as qualities inside him, which usually come to a man through rigorous educational system. He scores in society because of his intrinsic love for all, and his tendency to laugh at every thing. The voice amplifier in the hands of man at helm/core complicates it further, rather such conglomeration of cores have come to shape because of a history of sequel of scandalous appropriation of such mechanisms. History shows us how much energy we need to counter such cores/ hierarchies. The razor edged core naturally rips, as consequences of any such attempt against it: so we have bloodsheds in each ‘deconstruction’. This chour often becomes the cannon fodder in any conflict, since he loves to expose himself in any situation. He has no tools to recognize fear , as we most of us are conscious about. . A chour is not Bechour, ( victim in kashmiri ) A Mashkara is not indifferent to others suffering, but instinctively knows the futility of being sentimental beyond a point. love is -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 02:01:38 2010 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:01:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: <393999.64925.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <393999.64925.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perhaps this write up which appeared in the June issue of Honour magazine can provide a contextual understanding of the process of development and employment in Kashmir. http://thehonour.org/Main.asp?MagID=3&MagNo=22 Kashmir: Disempowering through Democracy The legislature just added a link in the long chain of constitutional tools that have made Kashmir into a colony administered through a coercive and unjust democracy. Shahzeb Lone When Kashmiris are called upon to vote, it’s to adorn a system of democracy that must work to disempower the voter. The political history of the Indian-applied democracy in Kashmir is a long narrative of constitutional fraud. Its foundations were laid through arm-twisting to create a never ending room and legalise a perpetual heist of rights. The latest loot came through the Job Bill recently passed by a legislature whose election the Indian democrats profusely congratulated themselves and Kashmiris for. Or, is it a punishment for a Muslim-majority people for not having a caste system? The Bill may have rightly prohibited inter-district recruitment in government jobs, but extends eight percent reservation in jobs for Schedule Castes even to districts that don’t have them at all. This effectively means fewer jobs for casteless communities like the Muslim majority and Buddhists of Jammu and Kashmir. This legislative approach of disempowering a majority identity has taken many years to graduate from simple and sweet-sounding ill-intention - directed at a gullible people - to concrete legislative methods. The then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi could not camouflage his political desire of furthering control to Kashmiri population rather than envision an empowering scenario when he came visiting in 1987. A long pending demand of establishing a college in an area was simply shot down by the Prime Minister arguing: ‘What would a college get you? I’ll rather establish an industrial unit so that you’ve jobs.’ The Indian Prime Minister underscored a significant intention that meant Kashmir will get anything that will keep them dependent, but money will not be spent on local capacity building. Intentions like this have earnestly been copied by representatives Kashmiris thought they elect to safeguard their interests and secure their futures, political or otherwise. Just like New Delhi, these ‘democratically elected representatives’ do not do anything that does not feed or enhance control over a rebelling people. For a green revolution in neighbouring Punjab, food security for rice-eating Kashmiris was envisioned and later ensured through subsidy. This despite and after the revolutionary land reforms. Why subsidy? Why rice was made cheaper for a Kashmiri? This was the beginning of making the local political economy dependent on outside largesse dispensed through the local legislature. This step of subsidizing the staple determined the direction the project of political and social engineering in Kashmir continues to maintain. This approach finds its latest push in the promotion of tourism industry in Kashmir. Money is pumped into tourism development despite its extreme vulnerabilities. The industry no doubt ensures temporary livelihoods, but it’s used to bring in certain kind of political influence and to feed a certain discourse of enforced normality. It is also projected as the mainstay of Kashmir’s economy at the peril of the region’s actual economic backbone of horticulture and handicrafts. For most part, the erstwhile thriving sericulture industry stands wiped out, while horticulture has become a step child of the state attention. Thousands of crores of rupees are spent on the modernization of police and security of the state apparatus. A few crore rupees could never be granted to establish even a single cold storage facility for the delicate horticulture produce even before the current security scenario emerged. Couple this with the efforts for development of modern industry in Kashmir division. Investment committed by the state government for industrialization in Kashmir is a paltry percentage of that for Jammu. In 2009 alone, a mere 12 crore rupees were committed for more than 2000 industrial units in Kashmir while 325 crore rupees were set aside for investment in just 422 units in Jammu. It is hard to miss the obtuse ratio of this investment into “equitable” regional development of the state. Dolling out government jobs in social and education sectors in lieu of political loyalties appears like a well thought out project to neutralise unrest that has characterized post-1947 Kashmir. Immediately after diluting Kashmir’s autonomy in the 1950s, the political engineers perpetrated the opium of corruption in all spheres of life. Jobs were granted on cigarette packing. Since grant of government jobs was the best means available with the state to turn a people around politically, competence and required qualification were sacrificed for recruitment in the all important education sector. A widespread impression lived for a long time that if one couldn’t secure a job anywhere education department became the most easily available parking lot. Thus, a future was compromised for the longest term. But the state never stopped employing any other means to incapacitate the people. Khouftan Fakirs (eavesdroppers for the state) were deployed all across to index the population and to let them know if they were not with the state’s political project they were legitimately liable for coercive treatment. Those who did not succumb to the state run social engineering project were persecuted and finally obliterated from the political landscape. Kashmir’s political history is full of such instances. As the state’s approach turned more and more blatant in ways including large scale rigging of elections, it finally piled up and convulsed to catalyse an armed political rebellion. Decade on decade, this socio-political engineering project kept on turning complex. Its complexity and intensity acquired a dizzying pace since 1990s. It has now long reached a stage where anything and everything that the state government, the central government and the gigantic security grid does is directed at enhancing control over the population. In the prevailing circumstances, this appears to be the only way for the state objectives in Kashmir to stay on a particularly desired course. In this paradigm the state is invested in consistently raising economic stakes of the population to further the argument that “economic development is freedom”. The latest “kill” in this array of measures is the Job Bill. The absence of a robust response to the Bill in tandem with the overall political reality of Kashmir presents a scenario where anything less than losing one’s life has become “normal”. From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Sep 10 05:05:55 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:05:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's Abu Gharaib ? Message-ID: <33C0DD3D-D37D-4256-AE1E-56487715D3FE@sarai.net> Dear All, Apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org, Facebook etc. Some of you may have had the opportunity to visit and see for yourself the video of four naked young men being humiliated by paramilitary and police personnel in Kashmir. I have found it very difficult to watch this footage. And I append below the thoughts that I have been wrestling with ever since this material entered the horizon of my attention. It has not been easy writing this, but I hope it will be of interest to some of you. Please do circulate widely if you think it is of any significance. best Shuddha ---------------------------------- Kashmir's Abu Gharaib ? Shuddhabrata Sengupta Two days ago, I noticed a video posted by somebody on my facebook page. It was yet another video from Kashmir. It was tagged 'brothers please watch, sisters please do not watch'. In later incarnations of the video, posted repeatedly on Facebook sites, Youtube channels and on blogs. it was tagged 'Indian Security Forces Kashmiri Youth to Walk Naked on Road' or 'Kashmir - India's Abu Gharib (sic)'. [ The video was available on Youtube on the night of 8th/9th September, 2010, before being taken down at - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsVRaznn3rA ] Notwithstanding the misspelling of Abu Gharaib in these tags, there was something compellingly accurate in the designation. What I saw, and what i have seen unfold subsequently as a response by the Indian state to the circulation of this video, makes Abu Gharaib look like child's play. Welcome to the virtual, viral, televisual reality of the nightmare of Kashmir. For the past several weeks, I have been watching, and forwarding, several videos uploaded on to Youtube and facebook from Kashmir. Every video that I have seen contains evidence of the brutality of the Indian state's footprint on the Kashmir valley, and of the steadfast yet resilient courage of its people, and of the innovative use they have been making of the internet to bear witness to their oppression. [ See for instance - Innocent Man being Beaten in Kashmir http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA5s3tqG8CM ] I have seen paramilitary and police personnel open fire on unarmed or stone pelting crowds, mercilessly beat up young people and children, attack doctors, patients and nurses in hospitals, smash windows of homes, steal chickens and livestock and hurl the most vulgar invectives at ordinary people. I have watched the armed might of the Indian state retreat in the face of the moral courage of the opposition it encounters on the streets of Kashmir. It doesn't take much to find these videos. Run a search with 'Kashmir, Stone Pelting. indian Occupation' on Youtube. Of follow the links and uploads on the growing cluster of Facebook pages from and about Kashmir. But nothing prepared me for what I saw when I clicked on the video that said 'brothers watch, sisters don't watch'. I am a person who works with moving images. I think about moving images, about video. I watch all kinds of things. Not all of which are prettly, or edifying. But the sheer extent of humiliation that was visible in this video was not something that I was prepared to see, not even from Kashmir. The video, not more than three minutes long, is a piece of uncut, unedited footage, in all probability (judging from the quality and resolution of the image) taken from a cell phone. It shows four young Kashmiri men, walking, across what appears to be freshly harvested fields (so it could be October-November, or, March-April) egged along by what appear to be paramilitary personnel and some policemen. Some of the security personnel wear khaki, some others wear olive green fatigues. One wears the black bandanna of a commando. Others wear helmets and caps. Some have bullet proof vests. The four young men they are 'escorting' are naked. They hold their clothes in their hands. From what one can make out in the video, their faces, reveal their acute shame, distress and embarassment. The paramilitaries and policemen taunt them as they walk. The main voice is that of a person who seems to be holding the device that is capturing the image. We hear him speak in perfectly legible colloquial Hindi. "Move, Move, Move, Keep moving, sisterfuckers" "Raise your hands, I'll hit you otherwise." "Your shoes are very good. Sisterfucker, (then we hear another, more muffled voice say what seems to be - "why are your shoes so dirty") "Fold your clothes, collect them, hold up the clothes" (so that the genitlas are not covered) "The sisterfuckers have been making us run after them since the morning." "The police station is where we need to take them." The video does not appear to have been taken in the recent weeks. The fields have been harvested. It has to be either autumn or spring. But it has not been taken that long ago either. It has to be from after cellphones were allowed to be used in Kashmir, and after cellphones capable of shooting video became cheap, and popular, which places the incident, and it's recording, roughly within the last two to three years. In some of the official and media responses that are beginning to trickle in, this business of 'the video is not recent' is getting some milage. As if somehow, the reality that the video portrays needs to be distanced from the current meltdown in Kashmir. Assuming that is the case, the implications of what the video shows become even more disturbing. It proves that a systematic humiliation of the Kashmiri population is part of the standard operating procedure of the security establishment of the Indian state in Kashmir.This is neither anything new, nor associated with the current wave of unrest. It has been in operation for several years now. The banal violence of the scene is in some ways far more distressing than the images gun battles and blood on the streets that we have become accustomed to harvesting from the past few months in Kashmir. At least in the pitched street battles, we see, adversaries, albeit unequal adversaries, policemen, paramilitaries, soldiers one one side and the angry tide of stone pelters on the other. Here, there are no adversaries. Prisoners are not in a position to be adversarial when they are surrounded by heavily armed men in uniform. What we see instead are unarmed captives, people who are in no position to threaten or endanger the security forces. That such people should be made to undergo a humiliation such as this is proof of the extent to which the forces of the Indian state in Kashmir have become bruatlized by the experience of serving in Kashmir. They (the men in uniform) do not need to strip people naked and make them walk in public. There is something utterly, lethally gratuitous in their action. There is nothing that says that arrested or detained citizens should be marched to police stations without their clothes on, in public view. No imperative of self defence, defence of the realm, public safety and security, or the Indian constitution requires them to visit this indignity on the four young people in their charge. Nowehere is it indicated that one can behave like this even with convicted criminals, captured terrorists or undertrials.That they choose to act as they do only indicates that the laughing, taunting men in uniform see the four young men, and by extension, any Kashmiri that they can lay their hands on, as sub- human beings, as animals. By doing this, they only expose the extent to which they have allowed the state to turn them (the men in uniform) into racist, colonizing brutes. The primary voice on the video betrays a calculated, cold, cynical disregard for human dignity. You can recognize that mocking tone, even if you do not understand the language, the moment you hear it. The paramilitaries are walking casually, one wears a commando's black bandanna, others wear fatigues, some carry sticks, others carry guns. They walk at leisure, without any urgency, as if - parading captives naked through open fields, was a perfectly normal, routine thing to be doing in Kashmir. (which suggests, horrifyingly, that it is indeed a perfectly normal, routine thing to be doing). We have all heard (from ex prisoners, human rights activists and lawyers) that sexual humiliation of young men is a routine practice during interrogations in Kashmir. That men are asked to simulate sodomy on each other, and that they are photographed in the course of doing so, and that these images are held out as means of blackmail and intimidation. Contemporary definitions of torture have expanded to include non- invasive and psychological terror methods, foremost amongst whom is sexual humiliation. The sobriety of rural Kashmiri society is not geared to deal with the spectacle of the humiliation of naked young men being made to march out in the open. Such an act is bound to leave deep scars in the consciousness of whomsoever it has been perpetrated on and whosoever was unfortunate enough to have observed it. It is designed to do so. Why do coerced nakedness and humiliation make such a perfectly repuslive pair? Perhaps because we think of being naked only with our selves, or with someone whom we can be intimate with, or who is able to care for us. Children can be naked to their parents, lovers can be naked to each other. A patient can be naked to his or her doctor. Or, one can choose, lucidly, joyously, to be naked, (the insane do not 'choose' to be naked, they simply 'are' naked) even in public, in moments of total abandon, when all inhibitions can be thrown away in a free act of the will. In the woods, in a river, by the sea, on stage. In any instance, being naked, somehow suggests a condition of freedom, or care, or intimacy. Something we freely enter into and govern for ourselves. It is this condition of intimacy and care that is twisted and turned inside out when nakedness is coerced. Coerced nakedness takes place in contexts that are the very opposite of intimacy and care. It invariably takes place in contexts that are cold, violent, brutally impersonal but horrifyingly intimate. This is a kind of nakedness that lays bare the darkest secrets of power. That it really doesn't care about the humanity of the person in its clutches. In its transparency, what it makes most naked, is power itself. It is no wonder therefore, that this video will now stand alongside the images of naked Jewish prisoners being made to line up in Nazi concentration camps, and the disturbing legacy of the now, all too familiar images from Abu Gharaib. That the uniformed representatives of the Indian state should choose to wear the nakedness of their violence with such pride and aplomb says something shocking and profound about the sheer immorality of India's ongoing military occupation of the Kashmir valley. After this, it is not necessary to give even a shred of consideration to the frayed patchwork of arguments that constitutes the indian state's line on Kashmir. And no, this is not an exception. The uniformed men in the video do not behave as if they were performing under 'exceptional circumstances'. It looks like a jolly outing. A stroll with a few trophies. A casual At the tail end of the three minute video. We hear a high pitched keening voices, and then mocking echoes, and laughter. The keening voice can be heard lamenting - in Kashmiri - "Hata Khodayo" (something like 'Oh God' ) several times. It is not possible to determine whether these voices are of onlookers, (perhaps of women and/or older men) or of the paramilitaries themselves. What is impossible to dispute is that the lamentations/mock lamentations are in Kashmiri, proving conclusively, that the incident occured in the Kashmir valley. All attempts at suggesting that the video is 'not from Kashmir' fly against the face of this fact. In any case, we soon hear, in counterpoint to these 'laments', such as they are. We hear a set of mocking, echoing responses that mirror the music and cadence of the lamentations exactly as a chorus would echo a soloist. The chorus is interrupted by cackling laughter. It is as if the men in the uniform of Indian security forces were not content with the mere humiliation of bodies. That in fact, they needed to pervert and mock the ways in which a people mourn their indignities in order to extract the pleasure that they felt entitled to in the course of this grotesque incident. When even the lamentations of the Kashmiri people are not safe because of the predatory presence of the occupying force, then it is time for the world to sit up and say that we have had enough of the Indian state's mayhem in Kashmir. Characteristically, the video was pulled down, on both Facebook and Youtube, repeatedly, in the course of last evening, night and today. There was some discussion on different Facebook pages about whether this occurred due to the 'nudity' in the video. I too was persuaded for a while that this might be the case. But a quick search for nude content on Youtube showed up a whole range of things from Naturist videos to medical material that featured nudity. In fact there is a whole discussion on 'Non Sexual Nudity' on Youtube that indicates that it is not Youtube policy. The Youtube 'Terms' webpage makes no mention of nudity whatsoever. It is however Facebook policy to not have nudity on facebook videos and photographs. Notwithstanding all this, the video repeatedly disappeared shortly after being posted on Youtube. And even posts of links to it, or discussions of it, began disappearing from Facebook pages. This suggested something more than the automatic application of 'no nudity' rules. It suggested what has been suspected for some time, that the Indian state, or some of its 'organs' - 'lean' on platforms like Facebook and Youtube to ensure that content that it problematic for its image simply gets erased. Through much of last night. A concerted online effort across two facebook pages by a constellation of people who did not know each other prior to this incident made sure that the video was momentarily up on Youtube. Notices went out across facebook walls to download the video from the concerned Youtube site so that the video could have a distributed, viral presence across several hundreds, if not thousands of computers,. By the morning of Thursday, the 9th of September, the effort to 'erase' the video from public consciousness had failed. News of the video (and responses to it) made it to newspapers like Greater Kashmir, websites such Aalaw-Kashmirc alls.org and even the Indian Express. The Kashmir based sites carried extensive reports, quoting the shocked responses of the people who had seen the videos. These included some responses from several people who are non- Kashmiri Indian citizens. The reprt on the Aalaw-Kashmircalls.org websites explicitly quotes reactions on Facebook walls. " The video has sent shockwaves and stirred a debate among the tens of thousands of users on Facebook. The video shared by outraged Kashmiri youth with their online friends and contacts has evoked sharp condemnation from the Facebook users across the globe, including India. Some of the users have even compared the abuse of the alleged stone pelters by the forces with the prisoners of infamous Abu Gharib jail in Iraq. “I am daughter of an Indian army officer. I’m embarrassed and shocked,” comments, Avleen Gill, a graduate from Saint Bede’s college "Kaptaan Singh, a resident of North India’s Punjab state comments: “After looking at this video, I feel ashamed to call myself Indian.” [ see - http://greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/9/video-shows-cops- parading-youth-naked-29.asp http://aalaw-kashmircalls.org/protestors-paraded-naked http://www.indianexpress.com/news/kashmir-police/679592/ ] By the afternoon of Thursday, 9th September, the response of the state had changed. From attempts at erasure, the state moved into a state of denial, and characteristic intimidation. Union Home Minister P Chidambaram questioned the authenticity of the video on the grounds that the 'people seen in it have not spoken up'. Leading some to say that were a mass grave of anonymous dead people to be discovered in Kashmir (as happens from time to time) , Mr.Chidambaram, would doubt the authenticity of the report on the grounds that the cadavers had not identified themselves or spoken of the circumstances of their deaths and burial. On the other hand, a CRPF spokesman denied that such an incident could have taken place, beacuse in his opinion 'it is difficult to keep even rapes secret in Kashmir' (which involves the interesting tacit assumption that attempts are made, from time to time, to keep rapes secret). A spokesperson of J & K police, however, said that charges would be filed against Facebook, Youtube and all those who have uploaded and distributed the videos on the grounds of 'maligning the forces' by distributing such objectionable material. In the J & K police's version, neither the authenticity nor the veracity of the video is an issue, what is offensive is the effort to circulate the material in question, because the contents of the video can 'malign' the forces. The varied wings of the indian state have displayed the full spectrum of ostrich like obduracy, from attempts at erasure to incredulity to denial to attempts at intimidation, but none of these efforts seem to be of any avail. It needs to be noted, that so far, the Indian state's response to this scandal has been far short of the expectations set by international precedents. The US Army may not have come off with a shining reputation from Abu Ghraib, but the US Government realized the gravity of the situation and took action to punish at least the primary perpetrators of the outrage (even if those who dictated the policies that made the outrages occur went scot-free). The recent incident of a former Israeli conscript, a woman named Eden Aberjil who posted photographs of herself posing with blindfolded Palestininan prisoners attracted severe criticism world wide, including within Israel. Several serving Israeli women conscripts condemned Aberjil's conduct in public and even the Israeli Army, (not an organization known for its sensitivity in human rights matters) took a stern view of the matter. The Huffington Post report on the issue says - [ "These are disgraceful photos," said Capt. Barak Raz, an Israeli military spokesman. "Aside from matters of information security, we are talking about a serious violation of our morals and our ethical code and should this soldier be serving in active duty today, I would imagine that no doubt she would be court-martialed immediately," he told Associated Press Television News. ] (See - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/16/eden-abergil-facebook- pic_n_683816.html) Contrast these responses with the conduct of responsible officers of the Government of India, from the Union Home Minister downwards. If ever there were to be an 'object lesson' in how not to handle a situation like this - we will only have to turn to the conduct of Chidambaram and his minions. As of now, the video is up, on distributed servers, in several locations and circulating, through emails, mms messages, bluetooth transfers, blog posts and facebook notices (not of the videos themselves any longer, but of descriptions and commentary). There is no way that the Indian state can any longer evade responsibility for the venality of its actions, especially as they are visible on this video. Even if the state can set its house in order, speak in one voice, persuade the lunatics who run the army in Kashmir to see the pointlessness of making a fetish of the AFSPA, and announce some kind of tepid 'package' by way of an insult to the people of Kashmir on the occasion of Eid, then too, it will not succeed in fooling either the people of Kashmir, or the world. This one video, with the perfect timing of its appearance, has succeeded in pulling the fig leaf off the true character of the Indian state's rule in Kashmir as nothing else has. It has exposed how the state acts, it has shown us that the state is 'leaking' information about its own misdeeds, and it has proven that the resistance in Kashmir and about Kashmir is getting increasingly sophisticated. If the state wants to prevail, it can do so only by recourse to massive armed force, or fraud and dissimulation at a hitherto unimaginable scale. As of tonight, the mainstream Indian media has not covered this incident with the seriousness it deserves. Neither television, nor print media have tried to look beyond the state of denial that the home minister is in, vis-a-vis, this scandal. If this were any other civilized country, there would be immediate demands for his resignation. If such demands do not gather force, we will demonstrate how far we are as a nation from being civilized. The conduct of the Indian security forces in Kashmir threatens to make barbarians of all Indians in the eyes of the world. I do hope that even all those who consider themselves to be genuinely patriotic Indians will be disgusted by what the video reveals about Indian might in Kashmir. If they hold their patriotism in the slightest regard, then, they should realize that the continuing occupation of Kashmir, which breeds perversities such as this, is only a blot of shame on what they hold dear as the fair name of their country and on their patriotism. I hope that they will find it in themselves to act with the honour that they take pride in, and refuse any longer to be complicit, willingly or unwillingly, in the nightmare that haunts the waking and sleeping hours of the people of Kashmir today. Delhi, 10th September, 2010. END ------------------------------------- Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From yousufism at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 05:54:08 2010 From: yousufism at gmail.com (M Yousuf) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 17:24:08 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=91Kashmir=92s_struggle_and_the_in?= =?windows-1252?q?justices=92?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Mr Naqvi, This delayed response would match well with your assertions about Kashmiris not being in sync and solidarity with all the wronged peoples in India and the world. Like most Kashmiris I do not claim empathy with people fighting their own immediate battles agaisnt the Indian state and its presumed socialist/secularist credetials but you seem complicit in suggesting that holding a people hostage for India to survive as a 'secular' nation is a justifiable position. This view I understand is informed by a territorially nationalist bias that characterises the entire Indian spectrum of political positioning between and including the left and the right when it comes to Kashmir. Apart from any other reasons that Kashmiris as a people may advance for the freedom of choosing thier own future - however flimsy, ahistorical or unjustified they may appear to you - the line in your superficially argued disposition becomes one of the principle reasons for Kashmiris not to be a part of a nation that uses its constitutional promise to subvert its own people. I understand that in the Indian political space you could be easily described as a 'good Muslim' but should that force you to look at the political struggle of Kashmiris through the same communal lense that the Indian state has refused to remove in order to justify 'naked military opression' of a entire people? Suggesting Kashmiri people to seek an alliance with the Indian Muslim is a communal stance in the first place and an attempt to rob a political rights movement of its true intent. I wonder how you understand the position taken by Kashmiris who are not Muslims (like most Pandits) and what the basis of that position is. That political choice divorced from the historicity of the Kashmir conflict is an alliance with the fascist tedencies of the Indian state. And the slogan around which you have evolved your caricature of the movement in Kashmir could just be a response or a taunt, if you may, to the state's hypocrisy. I have read you with great interest and always benefited from the scholarship I find in your journalism. But I suspect your understanding of what is and has been happening in Kashmir (in the name of Indians) comes from the Kashmiri poster boys made familiar to Indians through the 'nationalistic' media, the intelligence community and some heads of state you have interacted with. Before you write on Kashmir the next time, I stronly recommend that a journalist of your scholarship spends some time in Kashmir to feel the existence of a world view an occupied people may have. A world view informed by a civilisational connections made obscure to them by India's freedom from colonialism. A world view that has not found accommodation in a state run by the local replacements of their earstwhile colonial masters as much as it has not accommodated the aboriginals/natives. More than that you may actually discover some genuine limitations and problems that may have escaped the attention of the Kashmiri people themselves. Looking forward to reading more of you. Yousuf On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > ‘Kashmir’s struggle and the injustices’ appeared in the Dawn, Karachi > this week. > > http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/jawed-naqvi-kashmirs-struggle-is-just-one-of-many-fighting-indian-injustices-690-sk-05 > (The article is pasted below my comment) > > I found this commentary by Jawed Naqvi deeply disturbing, from its > very opening, where he draws attention to the ‘political bankruptcy’ > and the ‘warped mindset’ that currently prevails in the Kashmir > valley. And no, he’s not talking about Farook Abdullah and the > tattered remains of the National Conference draped around his son’s > shoulders. And no, its not about the circus of ‘pro-India’ parties > like the Congress and PDP, who won’t win an assembly seat without the > support of a massive military-state apparatus. His critique is > reserved for the ‘movement’, the omnibus word which right now probably > invokes everyone from Syed Ali Shah Geelani to the stone-throwing > protestors on the street. > > At a time when Kashmir is burning, I must be forgiven for thinking > that ‘warped mindset’ is more appropriate for the militaristic, > colonising imagination that is evident in the pronouncements coming > out from the Home Ministry. (And the BJP headquarters). The evidence > offered for Jawed sahib’s critique is a slogan that will “put off any > sensitive sympathiser". ("Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyara > Pakistan”.) Ignore the fact that I haven't heard of this slogan raised > this year (or even last year?). Put aside the fact that provocative > slogans are often raised by unarmed protesters in Kashmir, as an > expression of rage and helplessness, and to taunt and insult the > oppressive security forces (Remember “Aiwa! Aiwa! Lashkar-e-Taiba”?) > You have to ignore these observations because the article moves on to > shakier ground: the corporate land grab in Chhattisgarh, Orissa, > Jharkhand and Bihar are made equivalent to the situation of Kashmiri > Pandits who had to leave Kashmir in the 1990s. How this outlandish > parallel between two unlikes is arrived at, we don’t know. > > But it’s not these egregious errors that trouble me. After all, Jawed > sahib is a distinguished journalist, with a track record of courageous > writing that unerringly rattles the right-wing Hindutva fascists in > this country. So what makes him drop his legendary guard, and loosely > toss out charges at people who have “lived with naked military > repression for more than 20 years” and are “reeling under Indian > occupation”? (His words, please note.) If this is so, why then are > Kashmiris suddenly being asked to dwell on the thousands of suicides > by indebted farmers? And take on board the suffering of Irom Sharmila > and the people of Manipur? Why are they cast as the selfish recipients > of the support of Canadian Sikhs and Indian Tamils? How do they become > a movement “so self-absorbed that it didn’t have a policy much less a > worldview about other people’s sufferings? Kashmiris did speak up once > for the Palestinians, but now it seems they do not have the energy for > even that.” On what basis these assertions are being made I don’t > know, but I wonder: is this being asked of people in Jaipur? Or Patna? > Or Lucknow? When was the last time Indians in these towns came out in > support of Irom Sharmila, to protest farmers suicides, or Operation > Green Hunt? Or is such sympathy only incumbent on those who are living > in conditions that are slowly approximating war? The charge of > self-absorption seems a mite unfair when people are being shot on the > streets. Were I living in Kashmir the last three months I know I would > be pretty self-absorbed. (It helps if you are trying not to get > killed) > > But for me the crux of Jawed’s piece is not that he wants to encourage > Kashmiris to develop a more rounded sense of injustice. The real > center is illuminated by his reference to a conversation he had in the > aftermath of the demolition of the Babri Masjid, when an unnamed > Kashmiri politician expresses disinterest in the plight of the > traumatized Indian Muslim. This is the familiar charge that is always > flung at the movement in Kashmir: do you not realize that your > ‘separatism’, your desire to unhitch yourself from the ‘socialist, > secular, democratic’ wagon of India may dangerously rock the boat for > Indian Muslims? I don’t know what answer he would have got eighteen > years ago, but I can guess what many Kashmiris would tell him today. > They would say that if India’s treatment of its minorities, including > its Muslims, loyal Indians all of them, is so fragile, and so > contingent on the settlement of the Kashmir issue, then is it worth it > for Kashmiris to be a part of that India? They would at least point to > Gujarat. If the promise of Indian secularism is as hollow, > conditional, and belligerent, is it worth it to be a part of that > nation? > > Unfortunately Jawed sahib is not alone: the best part of Indian civil > society is quite firmly in sync with the position that his piece > suggests. Is it because deep down, even the anti-establishment > positions of India’s liberal, progressive, leftist tradition are > somewhere umblically tied in with the increasingly exhausted notion of > Nehruvian ‘secularism’. To the invitation to be part of that dream, I > imagine today's Kashmiri saying: ‘aapki ganga-jamuni tehzeeb aap hee > ko mubarak ho’. Notwithstanding the tragic departure of the Kashmiri > Pandits in the early 1990s, which haunts Kashmir even today, located > at the trijunction of three great civilisational (and religious) > traditions, Kashmiris may already know a few things about coexistence. > And before Indians discovered secularism. (As an aside: in 1947, when > something like 50,000 Muslims were slaughtered in the streets of > Jammu–under the direct supervision of the Maharani, let it be > said–Kashmir didn’t show a flicker of the same horror) > > Why does the Indian liberal-progressive-left (LPL!) position finds it > necessary to stuff events in Kashmir into the template that they are > already having to wrestle uncomfortably with. Unless the Kashmiris can > repackage their struggle into forms that fit into the undeniably > useful framework of class, Kashmiri concerns about ethnicity, > identity, self-determination are all somehow lesser political goals. > Why are we in India not looking at the recent history of Kashmir, > where an anti-feudal movement against the Maharaja turned into a > movement for self-determination? Why do we not recall that Jammu & > Kashmir was the only state to implement land reforms in the heady > years after 1947? (Not just land to the tiller, but land to the > landless too.) And finally, what role have the failures of Indian > democracy played in giving this ‘separatist’ movement a pronounced > religious turn? > > Last month, in what was possibly a historic first in New Delhi, > protesting Kashmiri students mustered the courage to gather at Jantar > Mantar to raise their voices against the killings in the valley. We > heard ‘Hum kya chahte? Azadi’ for the first time ever, yes. We also > heard ‘Nara-e-takbeer! Allah-o-akbar’. And in those few hours we heard > passionate arguments about both sets of slogans. (All this openly, on > the microphones, while the Special Branch no doubt watched.) But late > in the evening we also heard the voice of the radical Telugu poet, > Varavara Rao. He saluted the movement on behalf of his party, the CPI > Maoist (present in 22 states in India as he cheekily reminded the > audience!) Varavara Rao read out a poem that he had written in > Hindustani, in order to be understood by the Kashmiri audience. He > ended by saying that if in the ‘60s their slogan was ‘Amar nam, tumar > nam, Vietnam, Vietnam’, now he wanted to add: ‘Amar nam, tumar nam, > Kashmir, Kashmir’. I don’t know if the young audience understood what > that fully meant (or whether they were appropriately touched by the > solidarity). But I certainly know that Varavara, like any fighting > revolutionary, did not appear in their moment of crisis to hector > Kashmiris on their lack of concern for the beleaguered adivasis of > Bastar, or for their blinkered lack of internationalism. > > I cannot help but think that when Jawed Naqvi’s commentary appeared in > Dawn, readers in Pakistan, many of them part of the same > liberal-progressive-left crowd, will no doubt be deeply satisfied. > Like their equivalents here, they will be reassured that their growing > disinterest in Kashmir is justified because the Kashmiris are narrow > and parochial. Perhaps they deserve what they are getting. > > Sanjay Kak > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Kashmir’s struggle and the injustices > By Jawed Naqvi > Monday, 06 Sep, 2010 > > A particularly disturbing slogan heard in the Kashmir Valley, where > its young school-goers and old patriarchs, angry women and restive > youth are courageously defying Indian rule, is enough to put off any > sensitive sympathiser. “Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara > Pakistan.” (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of > our dreams - we embrace.) > > This slogan conveys acute political bankruptcy in a region which has > lived with naked military repression for more than 20 years. I’m sure > any Pakistani with a sense of justice would also be uncomfortable with > the warped mindset the slogan betrays. > > That Kashmir is reeling under Indian occupation is not a secret. That > Pakistan has played a questionable role there is also well known. Yet, > for Kashmiris to see their struggle as part of the many battles being > waged by the poorest of the poor against the Indian state’s > multi-pronged injustices against its own people, would not compromise > or be a contradiction in Kashmir’s struggle for self-determination. > The simple question for Kashmiris to ask themselves is, isn’t the same > state that has killed 60 young Kashmiris in three months, also > responsible for tens of thousands of suicides by indebted farmers in > India? Does Sharmila Irom, who is fighting to repeal the law that > gives unbridled powers to security forces in her Manipur state have no > relevance for the same struggle in Kashmir? > > The tribespeople of Chhatisgarh, Orissa, Jharkhand and West Bengal are > fighting for their fundamental rights. One of their demands is that > they not be evicted from their homes to accommodate corporate land > grab. Is this not what Kashmiri Pandits suffered at the hands of the > Indian state as well as non-state actors in their homeland without any > redress from successive Indian governments that claim to represent > them? > > Indian Home Minister P. Chidambaram and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh > have often cajoled dissident groups, including the banned Maoists, to > come for talks within the constitutional framework. Why can’t the > affected groups simultaneously expose the insincerity of the Indian > state? To take just one example, the preamble of the Indian > constitution describes the nation as a socialist and secular republic. > > Socialism is thus the law of the land. Which Indian government, > including the one led by Chidambaram-Singh duo, has come anywhere > close to keeping the promise of socialism? Just the opposite. Both > have callously opened the country to the depredations of private > capital. > > I met a Kashmiri separatist a few days after the Babri masjid was > razed in Ayodhya. He happened to be the only senior enough leader to > be still dodging the police in Srinagar. The rest were in jail. He > told me he didn’t care for the plight of Indian Muslims in the wake of > the Ayodhya outrage. “They have never helped the Kashmiris, so why > should we bother with them?” > > The explanation for his aloofness was ironical. How can we forget the > senior Indian minister telling journalists during the Agra summit that > if Kashmir was to be given to Pakistan on the basis of religious > claims, should not the Indian Muslims then be packed off in special > trains to Pakistan? Kashmiris and Indian Muslims may see themselves as > separate entities with separate causes. But their detractors will > always see them as one headache. Check this out with Gujarat Chief > Minister Narendra Modi who knows Indian Muslims as children of Mian > Musharraf. > > I put the question to some Kashmiri intellectuals in Delhi recently. I > asked them how was it that a movement with international ramifications > and wide support among a number of Muslim states could be so > self-absorbed that it didn’t have a policy much less a worldview about > other people’s sufferings. Kashmiris did speak up once for the > Palestinians, but now it seems they do not have the energy for even > that. On the other hand, there is no dearth of seemingly unrelated > groups that lend them moral support. A recent rally in Canada of Sikhs > and Kashmiri activists, who protested against India’s brutality in the > Valley, could be a case in point. A few weeks ago an obscure Tamil > group in India issued a statement in support of Kashmiris. Do the > Kashmiris want to know who the members of the Tamil group are? > > There is something about this that reminds me of an interaction I once > had with Gen Pervez Musharraf in Islamabad. He had just returned from > a visit to Colombo where his government was giving military and > political support to the government against Tamil rebels. I said how > was the Tamil struggle any different from the Kashmiri movement since > both stemmed from the denial of the right to self-determination. Gen > Musharraf said he didn’t want to comment on another country’s internal > matter. So he too chose the injustice, which suited him most. > > Vidya Subrahmaniam of The Hindu has done an interesting comparison of > three major pogroms in India, each fighting its own battle without > getting involved with the sorrows of each other. > > The Orissa violence, in which Hindu-Adivasis targeted Dalit > Christians, was undoubtedly smaller in scale compared to Gujarat 2002 > and Delhi 1984. “Despite…variations, the three pogroms could have been > written, produced and directed by a single satanic mind, judging by > the astonishing similarity in the detail and sequence of events and > the stunning brutality of the crimes committed,” says Subrahmaniam. > > In his November 2002 foreword to the report of the Concerned Citizens > Tribunal, which collected 2,094 oral and written testimonies from > Gujarat’s victim-survivors as well as human rights groups, Justice > V.R. Krishna Iyer said: “The gravamen of this pogrom-like operation > was that the administration reversed its constitutional role, and by > omission and commission, engineered the loot, ravishment and murder > which was methodically perpetrated through planned process …” > > Eight years later, as Subrahmaniam notes, the jury at the Kandhamal > Tribunal had similar words to say: “The jury records its shock and > deep concern for the heinous and brutal manner in which the members of > the Christian community were killed, dismembered, sexually assaulted > and tortured … There was rampant and systematic looting and > destruction of houses and places of worship and means of livelihood … > The jury is further convinced that the communal violence in Kandhamal > was the consequence of a subversion of constitutional governance in > which state agents were complicit.” > > “When, in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s 1984 assassination, > thousands of Sikhs were massacred on the streets of Delhi, the > commonly-held view was that it was an aberration brought about by an > extraordinary situation. Comparisons were made with the 1947 Partition > riots but few could have known at that time that the clinically > planned and executed anti-Sikh pogrom would serve as a model for two > more episodes of mass aggression against minorities,” The Hindu > analysis said. > > India has spawned a coalition of injustices. For those in the Kashmiri > resistance to show solidarity with those fighting the same bloated, > militarised state that they are, will not compromise their goal. It > would only deepen their vision and sharpen their ideas of what kind of > ‘azadi’ they are fighting for. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 09:55:14 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:55:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Eid message from Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A forum which promotes sedation....., Message of a known fugitive and state enemy is being propogated and circulated here. On 9/10/10, M Yousuf wrote: > *In the name of Allah * > > Assalamualaikum, > > On the occasion of Idd-ul-Fitr, we wish you Eid Mubarak. Let us pledge on > this day of *Rehmat *that no celebrations and ceremonies, no worldly > concerns and petty engagements will distract our spiritual engagement with > this pious movement. Our struggle is not only against tyrant India, but also > against forgetfulness. Let us not forget those who have sacrificed their > today for our better tomorrow. Their memories are our treasures; their > memories are our weapons; their memories are our direction. > > Dear country men and women, today Kashmir freedom struggle has reached a new > zenith, and it is all because of the blessings of Allah SWT and of course > due the unflinching and defiant resistance by all of you. > > We are aware of your sufferings and sacrifices. We are aware of your > contributions and losses. We are aware of your concerns and wishes. And we > are also aware of our collective dream of freedom from Indian occupation. > Your sufferings, sacrifices, contributions, losses and concerns are an > investment for the success of this movement – an investment for long lasting > peace and freedom. We assure you that we will succeed inshaAllah. We can see > the clouds of oppression passing off. We can see the spark of freedom in the > eyes of our young men and women. India stands weak. Your determination and > love for the movement has undoubtedly defeated the morale of Indian > soldiers. That day is not far, when they will leave Kashmir for good. They > can kill us but not our dream. They can delay the freedom but can’t stop the > success to embrace our nation. > > We may not be very strong. We may not be very wise. We may not have enough > resources. We don’t have weapons to fight enemy. We may not have world > opinion on our side, but you, our beloved people are the strength of > liberation struggle. Without you this revolution is impossible. With you we > will defeat every design of the Indian occupation. With you we will conquer > any means of subjugation used by India. Dear people, with you and ALLAH on > our side, we succeed; without you we fail. We need you for this struggle to > succeed. > > Our critics, oppressors and the collaborators show ‘concern’ about the > future of Kashmir after freedom from India. Surprisingly they are concerned > how we will survive after freedom, when they are not concerned about our > present, when our children, who are our future, are being killed, maimed and > brutalized. Tell them, nothing is better than freedom. Nothing can persuade > us to continue living under occupation. Compatriots, ask them, would they > like to live lives under oppression, discrimination and humiliation. If not, > then why do they expect us to reconcile with injustice and tyranny. The > oppression has to end, for which Indian occupation has to end. India is > mother of all the problems for people of Jammu and Kashmir. > > For our occupiers and their Hindutva mindset, Kashmir is integral part of > Hindu India. Kashmir is integral, Kashmiris are not and hence violence on us > is legitimized by their intelligentsia, media and civil society. For them if > people of Kashmir demand freedom, we should be silenced, killed, > incarcerated, exiled and brutalized. With this racist and fascist nation, we > can’t think of any shared future. They call us extremist when we are > actually resisting their violent fascism. > > Our movement for freedom, for justice, against discrimination was never only > for Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir. We always believed Hindus, Sikhs, > Christians, and Muslims form Jammu and Kashmir. Our struggle is not for > territory, our struggle is for people. We believe in right of > self-determination of all peoples within Jammu and Kashmir for the > resolution, in which of course people will be free to vote for Pakistan, > Independence or India. Let democratic exercise of referendum determine the > future of Jammu and Kashmir. > > Brothers and sisters, India and its stooges in Kashmir show their false > concern for our children’s education and the prosperity of our people. They > are so well trained to lie – and lie to the people who they have been > victimizing and exploiting. They expect all of us to fall prey to their > machinations. They have tried this from last 63 years. They have failed in > the past and you, our people, will have to fail them again. In last 3 months > how many times did they impose curfew? More than 60 days people had to live > under curfew. Does curfew not impede education? In last 3 months they have > killed 70 people out of which 50 were students. In last 3 months they have > arrested more than 2000 young men, most of whom were students. In last three > months they have tortured thousands of people, majority amongst these > torture survivors are students. Does killing, arresting and torturing > students help education system of Jammu and Kashmir? > > We agree that the schooling has got affected but not the education, because > what our youth have been learning from last 3 months, rather last 20 years > is equally important. They have learnt lessons for survival, nation > building, and resistance. Our students have been reading in the history > books about British colonialism, Hitler’s pogrom against Jews, > discrimination of black people in the western countries but here in Kashmir > our children have experienced all these things first hand through Indian > occupational troops. In 1947 we were deceived by India and its stooges > because our people then were not very educated and could not understand > their deceptions. Today Alhamdulilah our society is emancipated. Our society > is well equipped with educated people. In 1947 and 2010 the major difference > and advancement is our consciousness and education. So how can we not be > concerned about the education of our children, who will be the protectors of > our nation in future. Dear people please have faith in our programs which is > an investment in the secure and free future of our children. Our today’s > suffering will inshaAllah make the lives of our future generations safe, > prosperous and joyous. > > We take this opportunity of reminding you about our collective > responsibilities. We hope that all of us will try to accomplish these > responsibilities at our local levels: > > 1. Establishment and strengthening of the Baitul Maal (relief) committees > at each and every mohalla and village. Through these committees ensuring > that no single soul sleeps hungry. Nobody suffers because of the > non-availability of medicines and treatment. > 2. Ensuring the Hurriyat program is followed in letter and spirit. > 3. Help the injured of your area. Provide all necessary support for their > treatment. > 4. Through local Baitul Maal committees provide regular monetary support > to those whose bread earners have been killed in last 20 years. > 5. After identifying at local levels those young boys who advertently or > inadvertently have been responsible for the loss of public property, > counsel > them and equip them with the understanding of dangers of victimized > become > victimizer. > 6. Strengthening and widening the scope of community schools to ensure > that even if schooling is to a certain extent affected, let education not > suffer at all. > > Finally we would like to reiterate, that this is your movement, and we are > only giving direction to this movement. Whenever you feel anyone of us is > betraying or diluting your cause for freedom do not waste time in throwing > us out of your lives – your struggle – your future. We all have to protect > and carry forward this movement together. Unity in purpose and unity in > action should always be the foundation of our movement. > > > > Wassalaam, > > Masarat Alam Bhat > > Acting General Secretary > > All Parties Hurriyat Conference > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kaksanjay at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 10:08:18 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:08:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Eid message from Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At last, the truth is out: this is a forum that promotes Sedation...! No wonder the Reader List periodically slips into a state of enlarged yawn Now I know why some of the ramblings here are like the mumblings of the comatose, and sound like the nightmares of others. Sleep well, comrades, lest Sedation turn into Sedition Best Sanjay On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > A forum which promotes sedation....., > > Message of a known fugitive and state enemy is being propogated and > circulated here. > > > > On 9/10/10, M Yousuf wrote: >> *In the name of Allah * >> >> Assalamualaikum, >> >> On the occasion of Idd-ul-Fitr, we wish you Eid Mubarak. Let us pledge on >> this day of *Rehmat *that no celebrations and ceremonies, no worldly >> concerns and petty engagements will distract our spiritual engagement with >> this pious movement. Our struggle is not only against tyrant India, but also >> against forgetfulness. Let us not forget those who have sacrificed their >> today for our better tomorrow. Their memories are our treasures; their >> memories are our weapons; their memories are our direction. >> >> Dear country men and women, today Kashmir freedom struggle has reached a new >> zenith, and it is all because of the blessings of Allah SWT and of course >> due the unflinching and defiant resistance by all of you. >> >> We are aware of your sufferings and sacrifices. We are aware of your >> contributions and losses. We are aware of your concerns and wishes. And we >> are also aware of our collective dream of freedom from Indian occupation. >> Your sufferings, sacrifices, contributions, losses and concerns are an >> investment for the success of this movement – an investment for long lasting >> peace and freedom. We assure you that we will succeed inshaAllah. We can see >> the clouds of oppression passing off. We can see the spark of freedom in the >> eyes of our young men and women. India stands weak. Your determination and >> love for the movement has undoubtedly defeated the morale of Indian >> soldiers. That day is not far, when they will leave Kashmir for good. They >> can kill us but not our dream. They can delay the freedom but can’t stop the >> success to embrace our nation. >> >> We may not be very strong. We may not be very wise. We may not have enough >> resources. We don’t have weapons to fight enemy. We may not have world >> opinion on our side, but you, our beloved people are the strength of >> liberation struggle. Without you this revolution is impossible. With you we >> will defeat every design of the Indian occupation. With you we will conquer >> any means of subjugation used by India. Dear people, with you and ALLAH on >> our side, we succeed; without you we fail. We need you for this struggle to >> succeed. >> >> Our critics, oppressors and the collaborators show ‘concern’ about the >> future of Kashmir after freedom from India. Surprisingly they are concerned >> how we will survive after freedom, when they are not concerned about our >> present, when our children, who are our future, are being killed, maimed and >> brutalized. Tell them, nothing is better than freedom. Nothing can persuade >> us to continue living under occupation. Compatriots, ask them, would they >> like to live lives under oppression, discrimination and humiliation. If not, >> then why do they expect us to reconcile with injustice and tyranny. The >> oppression has to end, for which Indian occupation has to end. India is >> mother of all the problems for people of Jammu and Kashmir. >> >> For our occupiers and their Hindutva mindset, Kashmir is integral part of >> Hindu India. Kashmir is integral, Kashmiris are not and hence violence on us >> is legitimized by their intelligentsia, media and civil society. For them if >> people of Kashmir demand freedom, we should be silenced, killed, >> incarcerated, exiled and brutalized. With this racist and fascist nation, we >> can’t think of any shared future. They call us extremist when we are >> actually resisting their violent fascism. >> >> Our movement for freedom, for justice, against discrimination was never only >> for Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir. We always believed Hindus, Sikhs, >> Christians, and Muslims form Jammu and Kashmir. Our struggle is not for >> territory, our struggle is for people. We believe in right of >> self-determination of all peoples within Jammu and Kashmir for the >> resolution, in which of course people will be free to vote for Pakistan, >> Independence or India. Let democratic exercise of referendum determine the >> future of Jammu and Kashmir. >> >> Brothers and sisters, India and its stooges in Kashmir show their false >> concern for our children’s education and the prosperity of our people. They >> are so well trained to lie – and lie to the people who they have been >> victimizing and exploiting. They expect all of us to fall prey to their >> machinations. They have tried this from last 63 years. They have failed in >> the past and you, our people, will have to fail them again. In last 3 months >> how many times did they impose curfew? More than 60 days people had to live >> under curfew. Does curfew not impede education? In last 3 months they have >> killed 70 people out of which 50 were students. In last 3 months they have >> arrested more than 2000 young men, most of whom were students. In last three >> months they have tortured thousands of people, majority amongst these >> torture survivors are students. Does killing, arresting and torturing >> students help education system of Jammu and Kashmir? >> >> We agree that the schooling has got affected but not the education, because >> what our youth have been learning from last 3 months, rather last 20 years >> is equally important. They have learnt lessons for survival, nation >> building, and resistance. Our students have been reading in the history >> books about British colonialism, Hitler’s pogrom against Jews, >> discrimination of black people in the western countries but here in Kashmir >> our children have experienced all these things first hand through Indian >> occupational troops. In 1947 we were deceived by India and its stooges >> because our people then were not very educated and could not understand >> their deceptions. Today Alhamdulilah our society is emancipated. Our society >> is well equipped with educated people. In 1947 and 2010 the major difference >> and advancement is our consciousness and education. So how can we not be >> concerned about the education of our children, who will be the protectors of >> our nation in future. Dear people please have faith in our programs which is >> an investment in the secure and free future of our children. Our today’s >> suffering will inshaAllah make the lives of our future generations safe, >> prosperous and joyous. >> >> We take this opportunity of reminding you about our collective >> responsibilities. We hope that all of us will try to accomplish these >> responsibilities at our local levels: >> >>    1. Establishment and strengthening of the Baitul Maal (relief) committees >>    at each and every mohalla and village. Through these committees ensuring >>    that no single soul sleeps hungry. Nobody suffers because of the >>    non-availability of medicines and treatment. >>    2. Ensuring the Hurriyat program is followed in letter and spirit. >>    3. Help the injured of your area. Provide all necessary support for their >>    treatment. >>    4. Through local Baitul Maal committees provide regular monetary support >>    to those whose bread earners have been killed in last 20 years. >>    5. After identifying at local levels those young boys who advertently or >>    inadvertently have been responsible for the loss of public property, >> counsel >>    them and equip them with the understanding of dangers of victimized >> become >>    victimizer. >>    6. Strengthening and widening the scope of community schools to ensure >>    that even if schooling is to a certain extent affected, let education not >>    suffer at all. >> >>  Finally we would like to reiterate, that this is your movement, and we are >> only giving direction to this movement. Whenever you feel anyone of us is >> betraying or diluting your cause for freedom do not waste time in throwing >> us out of your lives – your struggle – your future. We all have to protect >> and carry forward this movement together. Unity in purpose and unity in >> action should always be the foundation of our movement. >> >> >> >> Wassalaam, >> >> Masarat Alam Bhat >> >> Acting General Secretary >> >> All Parties Hurriyat Conference >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 12:16:35 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:16:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Eid message from Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Comrades must be happy , now that red flag has come up as close as Gilgit . So Sanjay .,...can you again translate "Yeh Kya Korvu " ? On 9/10/10, Sanjay Kak wrote: > At last, the truth is out: > this is a forum that promotes Sedation...! > No wonder the Reader List periodically slips into a state of enlarged yawn > Now I know why some of the ramblings here are like the mumblings of > the comatose, and sound like the nightmares of others. > Sleep well, comrades, lest Sedation turn into Sedition > Best > Sanjay > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Pawan Durani > wrote: >> A forum which promotes sedation....., >> >> Message of a known fugitive and state enemy is being propogated and >> circulated here. >> >> >> >> On 9/10/10, M Yousuf wrote: >>> *In the name of Allah * >>> >>> Assalamualaikum, >>> >>> On the occasion of Idd-ul-Fitr, we wish you Eid Mubarak. Let us pledge on >>> this day of *Rehmat *that no celebrations and ceremonies, no worldly >>> concerns and petty engagements will distract our spiritual engagement >>> with >>> this pious movement. Our struggle is not only against tyrant India, but >>> also >>> against forgetfulness. Let us not forget those who have sacrificed their >>> today for our better tomorrow. Their memories are our treasures; their >>> memories are our weapons; their memories are our direction. >>> >>> Dear country men and women, today Kashmir freedom struggle has reached a >>> new >>> zenith, and it is all because of the blessings of Allah SWT and of course >>> due the unflinching and defiant resistance by all of you. >>> >>> We are aware of your sufferings and sacrifices. We are aware of your >>> contributions and losses. We are aware of your concerns and wishes. And >>> we >>> are also aware of our collective dream of freedom from Indian occupation. >>> Your sufferings, sacrifices, contributions, losses and concerns are an >>> investment for the success of this movement – an investment for long >>> lasting >>> peace and freedom. We assure you that we will succeed inshaAllah. We can >>> see >>> the clouds of oppression passing off. We can see the spark of freedom in >>> the >>> eyes of our young men and women. India stands weak. Your determination >>> and >>> love for the movement has undoubtedly defeated the morale of Indian >>> soldiers. That day is not far, when they will leave Kashmir for good. >>> They >>> can kill us but not our dream. They can delay the freedom but can’t stop >>> the >>> success to embrace our nation. >>> >>> We may not be very strong. We may not be very wise. We may not have >>> enough >>> resources. We don’t have weapons to fight enemy. We may not have world >>> opinion on our side, but you, our beloved people are the strength of >>> liberation struggle. Without you this revolution is impossible. With you >>> we >>> will defeat every design of the Indian occupation. With you we will >>> conquer >>> any means of subjugation used by India. Dear people, with you and ALLAH >>> on >>> our side, we succeed; without you we fail. We need you for this struggle >>> to >>> succeed. >>> >>> Our critics, oppressors and the collaborators show ‘concern’ about the >>> future of Kashmir after freedom from India. Surprisingly they are >>> concerned >>> how we will survive after freedom, when they are not concerned about our >>> present, when our children, who are our future, are being killed, maimed >>> and >>> brutalized. Tell them, nothing is better than freedom. Nothing can >>> persuade >>> us to continue living under occupation. Compatriots, ask them, would they >>> like to live lives under oppression, discrimination and humiliation. If >>> not, >>> then why do they expect us to reconcile with injustice and tyranny. The >>> oppression has to end, for which Indian occupation has to end. India is >>> mother of all the problems for people of Jammu and Kashmir. >>> >>> For our occupiers and their Hindutva mindset, Kashmir is integral part of >>> Hindu India. Kashmir is integral, Kashmiris are not and hence violence on >>> us >>> is legitimized by their intelligentsia, media and civil society. For them >>> if >>> people of Kashmir demand freedom, we should be silenced, killed, >>> incarcerated, exiled and brutalized. With this racist and fascist nation, >>> we >>> can’t think of any shared future. They call us extremist when we are >>> actually resisting their violent fascism. >>> >>> Our movement for freedom, for justice, against discrimination was never >>> only >>> for Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir. We always believed Hindus, Sikhs, >>> Christians, and Muslims form Jammu and Kashmir. Our struggle is not for >>> territory, our struggle is for people. We believe in right of >>> self-determination of all peoples within Jammu and Kashmir for the >>> resolution, in which of course people will be free to vote for Pakistan, >>> Independence or India. Let democratic exercise of referendum determine >>> the >>> future of Jammu and Kashmir. >>> >>> Brothers and sisters, India and its stooges in Kashmir show their false >>> concern for our children’s education and the prosperity of our people. >>> They >>> are so well trained to lie – and lie to the people who they have been >>> victimizing and exploiting. They expect all of us to fall prey to their >>> machinations. They have tried this from last 63 years. They have failed >>> in >>> the past and you, our people, will have to fail them again. In last 3 >>> months >>> how many times did they impose curfew? More than 60 days people had to >>> live >>> under curfew. Does curfew not impede education? In last 3 months they >>> have >>> killed 70 people out of which 50 were students. In last 3 months they >>> have >>> arrested more than 2000 young men, most of whom were students. In last >>> three >>> months they have tortured thousands of people, majority amongst these >>> torture survivors are students. Does killing, arresting and torturing >>> students help education system of Jammu and Kashmir? >>> >>> We agree that the schooling has got affected but not the education, >>> because >>> what our youth have been learning from last 3 months, rather last 20 >>> years >>> is equally important. They have learnt lessons for survival, nation >>> building, and resistance. Our students have been reading in the history >>> books about British colonialism, Hitler’s pogrom against Jews, >>> discrimination of black people in the western countries but here in >>> Kashmir >>> our children have experienced all these things first hand through Indian >>> occupational troops. In 1947 we were deceived by India and its stooges >>> because our people then were not very educated and could not understand >>> their deceptions. Today Alhamdulilah our society is emancipated. Our >>> society >>> is well equipped with educated people. In 1947 and 2010 the major >>> difference >>> and advancement is our consciousness and education. So how can we not be >>> concerned about the education of our children, who will be the protectors >>> of >>> our nation in future. Dear people please have faith in our programs which >>> is >>> an investment in the secure and free future of our children. Our today’s >>> suffering will inshaAllah make the lives of our future generations safe, >>> prosperous and joyous. >>> >>> We take this opportunity of reminding you about our collective >>> responsibilities. We hope that all of us will try to accomplish these >>> responsibilities at our local levels: >>> >>>    1. Establishment and strengthening of the Baitul Maal (relief) >>> committees >>>    at each and every mohalla and village. Through these committees >>> ensuring >>>    that no single soul sleeps hungry. Nobody suffers because of the >>>    non-availability of medicines and treatment. >>>    2. Ensuring the Hurriyat program is followed in letter and spirit. >>>    3. Help the injured of your area. Provide all necessary support for >>> their >>>    treatment. >>>    4. Through local Baitul Maal committees provide regular monetary >>> support >>>    to those whose bread earners have been killed in last 20 years. >>>    5. After identifying at local levels those young boys who advertently >>> or >>>    inadvertently have been responsible for the loss of public property, >>> counsel >>>    them and equip them with the understanding of dangers of victimized >>> become >>>    victimizer. >>>    6. Strengthening and widening the scope of community schools to ensure >>>    that even if schooling is to a certain extent affected, let education >>> not >>>    suffer at all. >>> >>>  Finally we would like to reiterate, that this is your movement, and we >>> are >>> only giving direction to this movement. Whenever you feel anyone of us is >>> betraying or diluting your cause for freedom do not waste time in >>> throwing >>> us out of your lives – your struggle – your future. We all have to >>> protect >>> and carry forward this movement together. Unity in purpose and unity in >>> action should always be the foundation of our movement. >>> >>> >>> >>> Wassalaam, >>> >>> Masarat Alam Bhat >>> >>> Acting General Secretary >>> >>> All Parties Hurriyat Conference >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Fri Sep 10 13:57:39 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:57:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Post Peepli [Live] Message-ID: dear All, Peepli Live has been talked about in different ways in many forums. Both Manmohan Singh and L.K.Advani commented on the film. Advani observed that the film maybe mocking the framers families who had to live in the wake of these suicides. He claimed a "i have seen them" authenticity to his observation. On the other hand Manmohan Singh directly addressed Natha and reminded him of "historical necessity" of the unfinished job of capitalism in India. The eloquent silence of Natha in the film will slowly get filled with a range of statements. Advani and Manmohan has produced the pole within which this filling up will happen. Could we read Natha's silence in other ways.? Here is a quote by Nandy, written in 2000 as an intro to a book, that i found extremely illuminating. "The Indian farmer did not commit suicide the way some businessmen did in the 1930s, during the great depression in the United States. Even in their desperation, these farmers retained some tenuous grip on life affirmative forces. For instance, many of them hoped that the compensation the family would get on their death would itself mitigate the suffering of their family. Their self-destruction often came packaged in a self-designed, calculated, self-sacrifice. To that extent, they remained, even in their death, just outside the rim of true despair and the self-destruction that comes from the amalgam of utter hopelessness and total meaningless of life. Their suicide was not merely a response to the existential question: why should we not commit suicide.? It was often a response to a question that had a very different philosophical tine to it: are we not more useful to the world dead than living?" (- Ashis Nandy, pg xi, in Despair and Modernity, Dehejia, Jha and Hoskote, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi 2000.) Could we read Natha's silence as a deeper philosophical position to the world, that we mistake as weakness or muteness or ignorance.? warmly jeebesh From drew at futureeverything.org Fri Sep 10 18:31:43 2010 From: drew at futureeverything.org (drew at futureeverything.org) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Festival Producer - Senior Posts at FutureEverything Message-ID: <49343.82.69.121.15.1284123703.squirrel@2010.futureeverything.org> FESTIVAL PRODUCER http://futureeverything.org/getinvolved FutureEverything is looking for an experienced, dynamic Festival Producer for FutureEverything 2011 Global Festival of Art, Music and Ideas and related commissions and projects. Fee: circa £18,000 You will have had a least 3 years experience in producing all elements of a festival. You will be a highly motivated and organised individual with strong financial management and budget control systems. You will have human resource skills and understand all elements of producing a festival from fundraising, business development, programming, commissioning, project management, marketing, production, operational logistics and delivery. You will be proficient at working with staff, artists and clients at all levels. An interest in digital art and music would be an advantage. Please send a CV with a cover letter to job12010 at futureeverything.org highlighting your strengths and relevant experience. Deadline extended to 20th Sep 2010 - Deadline extended due to server issues. We positively welcome applications from all sectors of the community. Learn more about this post and more: http://futureeverything.org/getinvolved OPPORTUNITIES AT FUTUREEVERYTHING FutureEverything is currently recruiting for experienced professionals to join its team. Now open - Festival Producer, Comms Manager, Conference Manager, Music Manager. Coming soon - Chief Executive. http://futureeverything.org/getinvolved CALLS FOR ENTRIES - AWARD & FESTIVAL See also calls for entries to £10,000 FutureEverything Award plus to FutureEverything 2011 Festival. http://www.futureeverything.org From kaksanjay at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 19:38:25 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:38:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. In-Reply-To: References: <13208.34615.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Gowhar Thank you for sketching out a very deft, thoughtful and nuanced account of Kashmiri marginality. I hope that as the colours and details are filled in this will turn into a substantial contribution to the discourse on Kashmir. Do please keep us all posted Warmest Eid greetings too! Sanjay Kak On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:25 AM, gowhar fazli wrote: > This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of political difference would benefit from your engaged responses. > > Thank you. > > Gowhar Fazili > > > Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] > by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 > > By Gowhar Fazili > > > To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around Kashmir into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the Pakistani and the Kashmiri discourses.  While the Indian and Pakistani discourses (as detailed below), accommodate Kashmiri people and the history of their collective struggles only if, and when, these buttress their respective positions, the Kashmiri discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and fragmented politics that exists within, and the connections these have with the outside world. > > These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of claims and counter claims.  For those who have not borne the immediate brunt of the conflict these generate excitement and passion, and the discourse is consumed through various media like an IPL cricket match.  The Indian state and the nationalists of various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, Secularists, unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, including the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the development achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of Indian legitimacy and control in Kashmir.  Kashmiri alienation, and separatist movements figure in this narrative, if at all, variously, as consequences of external interference, uneven development, appeasement, result of one-off political mistakes made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due course >  when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse denies Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous political behavior. It betrays amnesia around the rich history of struggles in Kashmir that preceded accession in 1947 that still continue to inspire Kashmir. > > The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and dwells on the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should have been theirs by the logic of partition.  It focuses on the denial of self-determination to the people and disregard of the UN resolutions, calling for plebiscite in the region.  It recounts the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in their view the continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri Muslims feel towards Pakistan.   Though Pakistan lends moral and diplomatic support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, it devalues the nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have had with the Indian state over the last sixty years, largely independent of Pakistan. > > The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized position with respect to the other two discourses imagines itself to be at the centre of the current political struggle. It draws from a long history of marginalization that predates modernity, tracing back Kashmiri dislike and resistance against foreign occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the subsequent progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian regime.  It leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar Treaty), when Kashmir was sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab Singh for Seventy- five Lakh Nanakshahi rupees[2],  the excessive taxation to recover this money that followed, leading to the famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of  Kashmiris died; the systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and discrimination on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; the 13th July 1931 >  Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the year 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected Prime-Minister of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on charges of conspiracy and sedition, arresting along with him the socio-economic revolution that was underway.  It presumes the subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody for twenty years to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with extreme suppression, corruption and cooption.  It sees changes made over the years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in an attempt to bring Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as bulldozing of the residual safeguards against assimilation.  It cites failure of India to make progress on the various agreements and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of autonomy, etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful policy.) > > The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging of the JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, the mass uprising for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 when Kashmiri youth took to arms against the Indian state,  and such, form the key markers around which the narrative of victimhood and valor is woven.  Not surprisingly the Indian national days are designated as black days (including the day Indian army landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and blackout.  The narrative erases the moments of compromise and relative calm that Kashmiris have enjoyed in spurts in the intervening years giving rise to the educated, middle class which is spearheading the current separatist movement. > > Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns debates around these discourses emerging from respective camps.  Spokespersons, scholars, military think tanks and a significantly large number of literate and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized into the importance of each of these claims and possess ability to maneuver through controversies to establish their political claims.  The positions are entrenched and provide for little flexibility.  The dominant narratives have also found their way into the colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, humor, are expressed with reference to these moments.  To mention just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas yeeha balaay’  ‘Had not the forty-seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the year Indian Army landed in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. The expression is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through >  corruption. > > While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like people anywhere else, the fact of being born in a territory, where the conflict around its disputed nature has raged to varying degrees for over the last sixty years, complicates and intensifies concern for some identities at the cost of others.  The political uncertainty impacts different members and groups differently as they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught from within and without.  To grossly simplify, for example a large majority of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied themselves with Indian right-wing parties.  Kashmiri Shia and Sunni Muslims largely identify with the broad contours of separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, Gujjars maintain an ambivalent position depending on where they are physically, located.  People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically isolated from >  the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do not manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly do so for obvious reasons.  Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, people of Doda, Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu depending on which of their interests and identities are threatened at a particular moment of time.  People of Kargil gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist majority discriminates against them.  Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged discrimination by Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the Indian state. > > Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, gender, region, religion and political orientation. These identities contract within and extend beyond the geographical boundaries of Kashmir in different situations and along different questions. Yet it is the collective experience of a shared geography, history, language, culture and meanings that make Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri narrative presented above which at this moment has a favorable bias towards the masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends on where one is located within the crosscutting mesh of identities and experiences and intellectual trajectories. > > In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other identities, by race, religion and language. Physically, they do not look, sound or behave like stereotypical Indians and are often harassed and made to prove their nationality at the ticket counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside Kashmir, given the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face  difficulty in finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim ghettos; receive snares and unwelcome comments while travelling; are easy prey for the security agencies seeking instant suspects for terror attacks; cannot stick their neck out too much in day-to-day struggles so as not to risk being falsely reported; cannot easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries (for being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with the word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly illegitimate.) > > Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for the majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods in Kashmir, Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who deserve to be eliminated or incarcerated or insulted on the flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for ready retribution in wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, vehicles stopped, people disembarked and detained any moment and without explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to shoot people as a preventive measure against possible future terror attacks. Public Safety Act provides for preventive custody without trial even before one engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. Men, women and children are susceptible to sexual assault and torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the above experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of the Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective marginalized identity. > > The militants against the security forces, and the consequent deaths of Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in crossfire, or killing of assumed or real Indian agents, the damage to personal properties, cultural and religious places, though used as firewood for Indian propaganda against the separatists, enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has also resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious fundamentalists responsible and hate them for this reason. Still others have turned overly apologetic, servile and defensive. But curiously it has not resulted in increased love for India among many. > > The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance towards those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the dominant sense of victimhood or those who try to channelize their anger and energies differently. The identities which are in-between or fall outside the markers of dominant Kashmiri identity and victimhood are rendered invisible or sought to be assimilated or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in consonance with how radical identities often turn upon their own people who may choose divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. > > This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of development like poor representation in civil services, academics, armed forces; backwardness of the region in terms of industrial development, educational infrastructure; employment opportunities within and outside the state. It also draws from the narrative of regional discrimination establishing how India has favored development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. > > In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or compromisers and punish those who tried deviate or rose in opposition to the centers hegemony. This practice continues. In the present times multinational private enterprise or funding cannot move in due to instability and disturbance. Irrespective of this the deals have been struck by the government with foreign companies for example, power projects, that are complete sell-outs helped by the fact that people are alienated from the state sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. > > > > Kashmiri Responses > > Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a test case to understand marginality and its directions among people argues that “the marginal person, having taken on elements of the dominant culture, is unable to return unchanged to his or her original group. Thus, the marginal person is caught in a structure of double ambivalence: unable either to leave or to return to the original group; unable either to merge with the new group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to this field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here termed assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” > > Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success pursued various directions in order to overcome their personal and collective sense of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four directions in which the marginalized react as suggested by Weisberger namely assimilation, return, transcendence, poise we can find parallels for each in different time periods, groups, institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. Kashmiris have also produced a wide range of political, intellectual and strategic responses that range over categories like: separatists, autonomists, Islamists, secularist, loyalist, anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, apologist, radical, pacifist, self loathing and a myriad of other responses, many, still nascent and yet to be born.    (I have to develop this) > > One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh attempt to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill introduced in the Legislative assembly.  The bill seeks to over-rule the High Court decision against the provision that renders a woman non state subject if she marries a non-state-subject.  The same does not apply to men who marry outside.  Interestingly BJP and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have started protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, betraying support through the lack of outrage among various political groups.  The silence is symptomatic of the male patriarchal bias in the dominant discourse in Kashmir.  Not to say that BJP and its allies are by any means less patriarchal.  They possibly see the women’s matrimony as a means to extend their connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to increase their likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is assumed to be >  more common among Hindus in Jammu. > > > Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along communal and regional lines.  While the right wing Hindu formations fanned sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim separatists and mainstream regional parties saw the move as yet another attempt to change demography in Kashmir, since the shrine board included individuals who were non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the controversy provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. > > > > Indian Responses > > The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, apathy or disdain.  Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent on or apathetic towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not share blood ties or see commonality of interest with Kashmiris.  Those who empathize, have their empathies conditioned by their location within the mainstream Indian politics.  Indian intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own respective projects rather than look at it from the point of view of Kashmiris and their history.  Similarly Indian Muslims and their sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect Kashmiris to behave in a manner that does not threaten the survival of Indian Muslims through a backlash, which would in turn harm the fragile secular polity.  The left sees it as a class problem or at best that of regional imbalance and because of false consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, unfit for class struggle and >  revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the media with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as they see them as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties and are mostly terrorists and fanatics. > > The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. Since funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, based in Delhi, they exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil society’ in its NGO avatar develops in Kashmir. The initiatives presently active in Kashmir have diverse ideological backgrounds.  If we count out the covert intelligence operations in the form of NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left leaning and feminists each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of fissuring of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy respectively.  While these fault-lines exist, to see them as detached from the nationality question does violence to Kashmir.  It would be like the British describing colonialism condition in India as male chauvinism or caste oppression. > > Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state towards a negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the seasonal olive-branch overtures by the State as Muslim appeasement, while at the same time cultivating a constituency among Pandits, and caste and class groups among Hindus in Jammu.  They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their Hinduvadi constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. > > The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression through violent means.  The talks are offered and withdrawn often at the peril of those who come forward and end up being disowned by the community for the failure and embarrassment. > > There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir merely as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present ‘foreign hand’, that portrays all protest as political intrigue and at best a result of internal power struggle for control over resources. > > But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir over a longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of eternal return, of protests, repression, compromise, corruption and back to protests. > > > > Encouragement of marginalities within > > Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri women and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male society which is assumed to be patriarchal and dominating.  In any discussion on Kashmir, the question, ‘but what about the women, the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, Dogras, Pandits?’ and so on invariably comes up.  The centre is able to subvert the mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In turn the mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to suppress or ignore the discrimination within or around itself in response to this subversion.  In case of Kashmir, the demand for the right to self determination is hostage to the question of what happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, Hindus of Jammu and Buddhists of Ladakh.  On the other hand the dominant discourse around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed >  other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various denominations at various other levels. > > > > Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris > > The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ of the Indian Army in Kashmir.  It is followed by a legalistic discourse on the nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with the Indian union.  This discourse forms the backdrop against which the Kashmiris are examined and variously described: as being the symbols of Indian secularism for having willfully joined the Indian union inspite of their religious and geographical affinity with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and non-violent or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, duplicity and deceit. > > This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and provides a good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and denied autonomous self-definition and a dignified independent identity.  The only identities permissible to Kashmiris are the one that pass the litmus test of Indian ideals, the ideals which the Indians may themselves not have been able to uphold.  If the identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit within the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the nation.  Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and only to the extent that it serves various political purposes and then left to deal with the schizophrenic condition on their own. > > Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by their tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the denial of self determination only as a milestones in their long struggle for emancipation, which began much earlier and continues till date.  Kashmiris subscribing to this narrative see themselves as de-facto and temporary citizens of India who have been subjugated against their will. > > While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into the discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their culture, they resent its use to make them into the essence of Indian ideal and react by adopting the exact opposite stereotype.  Simultaneously the emphasis on their affinities and continuities with regions that spread beyond the de-facto borders of the Indian state—that is the connection with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to establish their separateness. > > While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving the issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare enormous resources, for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is as urgent as dignity, certainty and security of their selves and yet they are left with no choice but to stake their all and as long as it takes to achieve it. > > > > Self, Community and the Universe > > In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with myself.  I find myself marginalized from the community in which I was born because my natural intellectual and emotional trajectory pushed me to transcend my ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of and influences from the exposure to other cultures, communities and intellectual currents.  In the process I hope to evolve by contrasting these fragments and make something new out of them and thus constantly manage to recreate myself.  This I assume is a normal course of healthy life for me.  The process however distances me from my community in terms of my appearance, opinions as well as associations. > > But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to become too different from it in terms of my looks or my subjectivity, I would be perceived as a betrayer.  Apart from this, seeing the community under distress, I personally sense my own betrayal.  I get forced to identify with the community and represent it.  The struggle I am confronted with is how to retain the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the same time not abandon my community in distress.    The third commitment is to the universal whole, the affinity and commitment one feels towards the shared values and heritage of human community.   It is hard to negotiate commitment to self, community and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation is important since a sense of justice is at stake.  The luxury of being able to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the communal sense of victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its favour.  For example when the >  outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective Kashmiri identity becomes the focus of my attention. > > > As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the same time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things.  But in this lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. > > > Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple marginalities at the same time.  Some marginalities I embody, like Muslim, South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, caste, rural, disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them.  I cannot have my concerns limited to myself and my community since my own victimhood shapes my identification with other marginalities. But how exactly does one locate oneself with respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one negotiate between strategy and idealism?  When do I remain silent about a particular marginality to privilege the other?  When do I maintain strategic silence about other marginalities to keep certain marginality in focus?  How does one combine these simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular marginality does not acquire fascistic proportions? > > > This negotiation has to take place in the context where differential importance is given to marginalities by the state or dominant interests in order to subvert, fragment and hijack marginalities. One marginality is played up against the other. Demands are counter posed—something more general or ephemeral like ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like ‘bijli-sadak-pani’.  It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to vane them off the other.  The choice offered is often between dignity and basic amenities of life. > > > Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality.  The more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a marginalized community.  This triggers one-upmanship within the marginalized group in the race to lay claim as real representatives of the marginality. One has to arrive at a position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a radical rant. > > In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with other marginalities without, the process of emancipation of different marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is need for an ongoing dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of claims of marginality and to resolve conflict of interest and issues of justice in the context of different marginalities working together.  There is need for democracy within the alliances of marginalities.  For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and substantive emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that constitute it or risk being fragmented or reduced to yet another chauvinistic movement.   It is only this rigorous self definition that will facilitate principled alliances with other movements and conceptions of marginality. > > > > > [1]  Presented  at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of Sociology,  on March 25-26th 2010 > > > > [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats and three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! > > > > [3]  Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger Source: Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. 425-446 Published by: Springer > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From aliens at dataone.in Fri Sep 10 23:08:30 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:08:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Eid message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004a01cb510e$fc0acf70$f4206e50$@in> EID MUBARAK Yousuf/Wali, "Dear country men and women, today Kashmir freedom struggle has reached a new Zenith" "We may not be very strong. We may not be very wise. We may not have enough resources. We don’t have weapons to fight enemy. We may not have world opinion on our side, but you, our beloved people are the strength of liberation struggle." I appreciate honest analysis about your limitations and depend totally on people spirit for freedom. Can you clarify what you people or separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have you thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. Of course US will be pleased to help since freedom of Kashmir is also hidden agenda of US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your movement. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will you or separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From rai.shailesh at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 23:16:03 2010 From: rai.shailesh at gmail.com (Shailesh Rai) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:46:03 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Post Peepli [Live] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, The Vidarbha Jan Andolan Samiti, a farmers' advocacy group which keeps a record of farmer suicides in the region, objected to Peepli Live because they had a similar interpretation. Here's what the head of the group said: http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_vidarbha-farmers-demand-ban-on-peepli-live_1424459 Vidarbha Jan Andolan Samiti president Kishore Tiwari said: “Farmers are driven to suicide because of wrong policies by the government. Instead of focusing on the deep-rooted problems responsible for farmers’ distress, the film highlights greed. It sends a wrong message to the public on a crucial issue." The point being made, as I see it, is that desperation is a more appropriate justification for suicide than self-interest. Shailesh On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 4:27 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > dear All, > > Peepli Live has been talked about in different ways in many forums. Both > Manmohan Singh and L.K.Advani commented on the film. Advani observed that > the film maybe mocking the framers families who had to live in the wake of > these suicides. He claimed a "i have seen them" authenticity to his > observation. On the other hand Manmohan Singh directly addressed Natha and > reminded him of "historical necessity" of the unfinished job of capitalism > in India. > > The eloquent silence of Natha in the film will slowly get filled with a > range of statements. Advani and Manmohan has produced the pole within which > this filling up will happen. > > Could we read Natha's silence in other ways.? > > Here is a quote by Nandy, written in 2000 as an intro to a book, that i > found extremely illuminating. > > "The Indian farmer did not commit suicide the way some businessmen did in > the 1930s, during the great depression in the United States. Even in their > desperation, these farmers retained some tenuous grip on life affirmative > forces. For instance, many of them hoped that the compensation the family > would get on their death would itself mitigate the suffering of their > family. Their self-destruction often came packaged in a self-designed, > calculated, self-sacrifice. To that extent, they remained, even in their > death, just outside the rim of true despair and the self-destruction that > comes from the amalgam of utter hopelessness and total meaningless of life. > Their suicide was not merely a response to the existential question: why > should we not commit suicide.? It was often a response to a question that > had a very different philosophical tine to it: are we not more useful to the > world dead than living?" > (- Ashis Nandy, pg xi, in Despair and Modernity, Dehejia, Jha and Hoskote, > Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi 2000.) > > Could we read Natha's silence as a deeper philosophical position to the > world, that we mistake as weakness or muteness or ignorance.? > > warmly > jeebesh > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Sep 11 00:19:32 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 00:19:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. In-Reply-To: References: <13208.34615.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42F6262B-A7EE-43AD-99E9-B10DB25C4030@sarai.net> Dear Gowhar, Let me add to Sanjay's comment. I will write a more detailed response later. Right now a bit snowed under. But I especially appreciate the honesty with which you come across with your own doubts and questions about the construction of identity. Especially the tension between the self-awareness of being the member of a minority in one sense, and the majority in another. I have always thought of the question of identity as having a fluidity, an almost tactile and subtle slipperiness that congeals into something grim and viscous the moment one tries to define oneself. The multitudes that each of us contain, and the currents that flow through us, cannot ever be adequately represented by a single name, regardless of whether that name points to an ethnic, or a national, or a religious or any other kind of affiliation. That is why, ultimately, all forms of identity based politics, regardless of origins, regardless of destinations, visit the very people they claim as their subjects, in the form of persistent nightmares of loyalty and treason. That said, it cannot be denied that one inhabits an identitiy if one is made to wear it like a prison uniform or an armour. To ignore the presence of identity in such a context would be to ignore the reality of incarceration. The question is, how does one know that the prison uniform is something one can choose to cease to wear, when one is released. looking forward to more discussion on this, best, Shuddha On 10-Sep-10, at 7:38 PM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > Dear Gowhar > > Thank you for sketching out a very deft, thoughtful and nuanced > account of Kashmiri marginality. I hope that as the colours and > details are filled in this will turn into a substantial contribution > to the discourse on Kashmir. > > Do please keep us all posted > > Warmest Eid greetings too! > > Sanjay Kak > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:25 AM, gowhar fazli > wrote: >> This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of >> political difference would benefit from your engaged responses. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Gowhar Fazili >> >> >> Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] >> by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 >> >> By Gowhar Fazili >> >> >> To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around >> Kashmir into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the >> Pakistani and the Kashmiri discourses. While the Indian and >> Pakistani discourses (as detailed below), accommodate Kashmiri >> people and the history of their collective struggles only if, and >> when, these buttress their respective positions, the Kashmiri >> discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the >> dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and >> fragmented politics that exists within, and the connections these >> have with the outside world. >> >> These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of >> claims and counter claims. For those who have not borne the >> immediate brunt of the conflict these generate excitement and >> passion, and the discourse is consumed through various media like >> an IPL cricket match. The Indian state and the nationalists of >> various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, Secularists, >> unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, including >> the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, >> the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the >> development achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of >> Indian legitimacy and control in Kashmir. Kashmiri alienation, >> and separatist movements figure in this narrative, if at all, >> variously, as consequences of external interference, uneven >> development, appeasement, result of one-off political mistakes >> made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due >> course >> when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse >> denies Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous >> political behavior. It betrays amnesia around the rich history of >> struggles in Kashmir that preceded accession in 1947 that still >> continue to inspire Kashmir. >> >> The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and >> dwells on the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should >> have been theirs by the logic of partition. It focuses on the >> denial of self-determination to the people and disregard of the UN >> resolutions, calling for plebiscite in the region. It recounts >> the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in their view the >> continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri >> Muslims feel towards Pakistan. Though Pakistan lends moral and >> diplomatic support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, >> it devalues the nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have >> had with the Indian state over the last sixty years, largely >> independent of Pakistan. >> >> The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized >> position with respect to the other two discourses imagines itself >> to be at the centre of the current political struggle. It draws >> from a long history of marginalization that predates modernity, >> tracing back Kashmiri dislike and resistance against foreign >> occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the subsequent >> progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the >> Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian >> regime. It leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar >> Treaty), when Kashmir was sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab >> Singh for Seventy- five Lakh Nanakshahi rupees[2], the excessive >> taxation to recover this money that followed, leading to the >> famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of Kashmiris died; the >> systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and discrimination >> on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; the >> 13th July 1931 >> Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the >> year 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected >> Prime-Minister of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on >> charges of conspiracy and sedition, arresting along with him the >> socio-economic revolution that was underway. It presumes the >> subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody for twenty years >> to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with >> extreme suppression, corruption and cooption. It sees changes >> made over the years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in >> an attempt to bring Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as >> bulldozing of the residual safeguards against assimilation. It >> cites failure of India to make progress on the various agreements >> and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of autonomy, >> etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful >> policy.) >> >> The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging >> of the JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, >> the mass uprising for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 >> when Kashmiri youth took to arms against the Indian state, and >> such, form the key markers around which the narrative of >> victimhood and valor is woven. Not surprisingly the Indian >> national days are designated as black days (including the day >> Indian army landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and >> blackout. The narrative erases the moments of compromise and >> relative calm that Kashmiris have enjoyed in spurts in the >> intervening years giving rise to the educated, middle class which >> is spearheading the current separatist movement. >> >> Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns >> debates around these discourses emerging from respective camps. >> Spokespersons, scholars, military think tanks and a significantly >> large number of literate and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized >> into the importance of each of these claims and possess ability to >> maneuver through controversies to establish their political >> claims. The positions are entrenched and provide for little >> flexibility. The dominant narratives have also found their way >> into the colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, >> humor, are expressed with reference to these moments. To mention >> just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas yeeha balaay’ ‘Had not the forty- >> seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the year Indian Army landed >> in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. The expression >> is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at >> someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through >> corruption. >> >> While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, >> overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like >> people anywhere else, the fact of being born in a territory, where >> the conflict around its disputed nature has raged to varying >> degrees for over the last sixty years, complicates and intensifies >> concern for some identities at the cost of others. The political >> uncertainty impacts different members and groups differently as >> they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught from >> within and without. To grossly simplify, for example a large >> majority of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied >> themselves with Indian right-wing parties. Kashmiri Shia and >> Sunni Muslims largely identify with the broad contours of >> separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, Gujjars maintain an >> ambivalent position depending on where they are physically, >> located. People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically >> isolated from >> the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do >> not manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly >> do so for obvious reasons. Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, >> people of Doda, Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu >> depending on which of their interests and identities are >> threatened at a particular moment of time. People of Kargil >> gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist majority >> discriminates against them. Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and >> Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged >> discrimination by Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the >> Indian state. >> >> Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, >> gender, region, religion and political orientation. These >> identities contract within and extend beyond the geographical >> boundaries of Kashmir in different situations and along different >> questions. Yet it is the collective experience of a shared >> geography, history, language, culture and meanings that make >> Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering >> others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri >> narrative presented above which at this moment has a favorable >> bias towards the masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends >> on where one is located within the crosscutting mesh of identities >> and experiences and intellectual trajectories. >> >> In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other >> identities, by race, religion and language. Physically, they do >> not look, sound or behave like stereotypical Indians and are often >> harassed and made to prove their nationality at the ticket >> counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside Kashmir, given >> the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the >> consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face >> difficulty in finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim >> ghettos; receive snares and unwelcome comments while travelling; >> are easy prey for the security agencies seeking instant suspects >> for terror attacks; cannot stick their neck out too much in day-to- >> day struggles so as not to risk being falsely reported; cannot >> easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries (for >> being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with >> the word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly >> illegitimate.) >> >> Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for >> the majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods >> in Kashmir, Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who >> deserve to be eliminated or incarcerated or insulted on the >> flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for ready retribution in >> wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, vehicles stopped, >> people disembarked and detained any moment and without >> explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to >> shoot people as a preventive measure against possible future >> terror attacks. Public Safety Act provides for preventive custody >> without trial even before one engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. >> Men, women and children are susceptible to sexual assault and >> torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the above >> experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of >> the Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective >> marginalized identity. >> >> The militants against the security forces, and the consequent >> deaths of Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in >> crossfire, or killing of assumed or real Indian agents, the damage >> to personal properties, cultural and religious places, though used >> as firewood for Indian propaganda against the separatists, >> enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has also >> resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from >> anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious >> fundamentalists responsible and hate them for this reason. Still >> others have turned overly apologetic, servile and defensive. But >> curiously it has not resulted in increased love for India among many. >> >> The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance >> towards those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the >> dominant sense of victimhood or those who try to channelize their >> anger and energies differently. The identities which are in- >> between or fall outside the markers of dominant Kashmiri identity >> and victimhood are rendered invisible or sought to be assimilated >> or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in consonance with how >> radical identities often turn upon their own people who may choose >> divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. >> >> This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of >> development like poor representation in civil services, academics, >> armed forces; backwardness of the region in terms of industrial >> development, educational infrastructure; employment opportunities >> within and outside the state. It also draws from the narrative of >> regional discrimination establishing how India has favored >> development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. >> >> In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of >> funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or >> compromisers and punish those who tried deviate or rose in >> opposition to the centers hegemony. This practice continues. In >> the present times multinational private enterprise or funding >> cannot move in due to instability and disturbance. Irrespective of >> this the deals have been struck by the government with foreign >> companies for example, power projects, that are complete sell-outs >> helped by the fact that people are alienated from the state >> sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The >> stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. >> >> >> >> Kashmiri Responses >> >> Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a >> test case to understand marginality and its directions among >> people argues that “the marginal person, having taken on elements >> of the dominant culture, is unable to return unchanged to his or >> her original group. Thus, the marginal person is caught in a >> structure of double ambivalence: unable either to leave or to >> return to the original group; unable either to merge with the new >> group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to >> this field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here >> termed assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” >> >> Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success >> pursued various directions in order to overcome their personal and >> collective sense of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four >> directions in which the marginalized react as suggested by >> Weisberger namely assimilation, return, transcendence, poise we >> can find parallels for each in different time periods, groups, >> institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as >> contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. >> Kashmiris have also produced a wide range of political, >> intellectual and strategic responses that range over categories >> like: separatists, autonomists, Islamists, secularist, loyalist, >> anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, apologist, radical, pacifist, >> self loathing and a myriad of other responses, many, still nascent >> and yet to be born. (I have to develop this) >> >> One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh >> attempt to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill >> introduced in the Legislative assembly. The bill seeks to over- >> rule the High Court decision against the provision that renders a >> woman non state subject if she marries a non-state-subject. The >> same does not apply to men who marry outside. Interestingly BJP >> and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have started >> protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, >> betraying support through the lack of outrage among various >> political groups. The silence is symptomatic of the male >> patriarchal bias in the dominant discourse in Kashmir. Not to say >> that BJP and its allies are by any means less patriarchal. They >> possibly see the women’s matrimony as a means to extend their >> connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to increase their >> likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is assumed >> to be >> more common among Hindus in Jammu. >> >> >> Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along >> communal and regional lines. While the right wing Hindu >> formations fanned sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of >> land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim separatists and mainstream regional >> parties saw the move as yet another attempt to change demography >> in Kashmir, since the shrine board included individuals who were >> non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the controversy >> provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. >> >> >> >> Indian Responses >> >> The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, >> apathy or disdain. Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent >> on or apathetic towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not >> share blood ties or see commonality of interest with Kashmiris. >> Those who empathize, have their empathies conditioned by their >> location within the mainstream Indian politics. Indian >> intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own respective >> projects rather than look at it from the point of view of >> Kashmiris and their history. Similarly Indian Muslims and their >> sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect >> Kashmiris to behave in a manner that does not threaten the >> survival of Indian Muslims through a backlash, which would in turn >> harm the fragile secular polity. The left sees it as a class >> problem or at best that of regional imbalance and because of false >> consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, unfit for >> class struggle and >> revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the >> media with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as >> they see them as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties >> and are mostly terrorists and fanatics. >> >> The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their >> respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. >> Since funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, >> based in Delhi, they exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil >> society’ in its NGO avatar develops in Kashmir. The initiatives >> presently active in Kashmir have diverse ideological backgrounds. >> If we count out the covert intelligence operations in the form of >> NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left leaning and feminists >> each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of fissuring >> of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy >> respectively. While these fault-lines exist, to see them as >> detached from the nationality question does violence to Kashmir. >> It would be like the British describing colonialism condition in >> India as male chauvinism or caste oppression. >> >> Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state >> towards a negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the >> seasonal olive-branch overtures by the State as Muslim >> appeasement, while at the same time cultivating a constituency >> among Pandits, and caste and class groups among Hindus in Jammu. >> They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their Hinduvadi >> constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or >> through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. >> >> The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression >> through violent means. The talks are offered and withdrawn often >> at the peril of those who come forward and end up being disowned >> by the community for the failure and embarrassment. >> >> There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir >> merely as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present >> ‘foreign hand’, that portrays all protest as political intrigue >> and at best a result of internal power struggle for control over >> resources. >> >> But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir >> over a longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of >> eternal return, of protests, repression, compromise, corruption >> and back to protests. >> >> >> >> Encouragement of marginalities within >> >> Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri >> women and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male >> society which is assumed to be patriarchal and dominating. In any >> discussion on Kashmir, the question, ‘but what about the women, >> the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, Dogras, Pandits?’ and so >> on invariably comes up. The centre is able to subvert the >> mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the >> issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In >> turn the mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to >> suppress or ignore the discrimination within or around itself in >> response to this subversion. In case of Kashmir, the demand for >> the right to self determination is hostage to the question of what >> happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, Hindus of Jammu and >> Buddhists of Ladakh. On the other hand the dominant discourse >> around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed >> other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various >> denominations at various other levels. >> >> >> >> Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris >> >> The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ >> of the Indian Army in Kashmir. It is followed by a legalistic >> discourse on the nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with >> the Indian union. This discourse forms the backdrop against which >> the Kashmiris are examined and variously described: as being the >> symbols of Indian secularism for having willfully joined the >> Indian union inspite of their religious and geographical affinity >> with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and non-violent >> or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, >> duplicity and deceit. >> >> This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and >> provides a good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and >> denied autonomous self-definition and a dignified independent >> identity. The only identities permissible to Kashmiris are the >> one that pass the litmus test of Indian ideals, the ideals which >> the Indians may themselves not have been able to uphold. If the >> identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit within >> the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then >> these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the >> nation. Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and >> only to the extent that it serves various political purposes and >> then left to deal with the schizophrenic condition on their own. >> >> Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by >> their tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the >> denial of self determination only as a milestones in their long >> struggle for emancipation, which began much earlier and continues >> till date. Kashmiris subscribing to this narrative see themselves >> as de-facto and temporary citizens of India who have been >> subjugated against their will. >> >> While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into >> the discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their >> culture, they resent its use to make them into the essence of >> Indian ideal and react by adopting the exact opposite stereotype. >> Simultaneously the emphasis on their affinities and continuities >> with regions that spread beyond the de-facto borders of the Indian >> state—that is the connection with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central >> Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to establish their >> separateness. >> >> While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving >> the issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare >> enormous resources, for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is >> as urgent as dignity, certainty and security of their selves and >> yet they are left with no choice but to stake their all and as >> long as it takes to achieve it. >> >> >> >> Self, Community and the Universe >> >> In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with >> myself. I find myself marginalized from the community in which I >> was born because my natural intellectual and emotional trajectory >> pushed me to transcend my ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of >> and influences from the exposure to other cultures, communities >> and intellectual currents. In the process I hope to evolve by >> contrasting these fragments and make something new out of them and >> thus constantly manage to recreate myself. This I assume is a >> normal course of healthy life for me. The process however >> distances me from my community in terms of my appearance, opinions >> as well as associations. >> >> But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to >> become too different from it in terms of my looks or my >> subjectivity, I would be perceived as a betrayer. Apart from >> this, seeing the community under distress, I personally sense my >> own betrayal. I get forced to identify with the community and >> represent it. The struggle I am confronted with is how to retain >> the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the >> same time not abandon my community in distress. The third >> commitment is to the universal whole, the affinity and commitment >> one feels towards the shared values and heritage of human >> community. It is hard to negotiate commitment to self, community >> and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation is >> important since a sense of justice is at stake. The luxury of >> being able to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the >> communal sense of victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its >> favour. For example when the >> outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my >> emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective >> Kashmiri identity becomes the focus of my attention. >> >> >> As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the >> same time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things. >> But in this lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. >> >> >> Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple >> marginalities at the same time. Some marginalities I embody, like >> Muslim, South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, >> caste, rural, disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them. >> I cannot have my concerns limited to myself and my community since >> my own victimhood shapes my identification with other >> marginalities. But how exactly does one locate oneself with >> respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one >> negotiate between strategy and idealism? When do I remain silent >> about a particular marginality to privilege the other? When do I >> maintain strategic silence about other marginalities to keep >> certain marginality in focus? How does one combine these >> simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular marginality >> does not acquire fascistic proportions? >> >> >> This negotiation has to take place in the context where >> differential importance is given to marginalities by the state or >> dominant interests in order to subvert, fragment and hijack >> marginalities. One marginality is played up against the other. >> Demands are counter posed—something more general or ephemeral like >> ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like ‘bijli-sadak-pani’. >> It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to vane them >> off the other. The choice offered is often between dignity and >> basic amenities of life. >> >> >> Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality. >> The more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a >> marginalized community. This triggers one-upmanship within the >> marginalized group in the race to lay claim as real >> representatives of the marginality. One has to arrive at a >> position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a >> radical rant. >> >> In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of >> marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with >> other marginalities without, the process of emancipation of >> different marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is >> need for an ongoing dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of >> claims of marginality and to resolve conflict of interest and >> issues of justice in the context of different marginalities >> working together. There is need for democracy within the >> alliances of marginalities. For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be >> redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and >> substantive emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that >> constitute it or risk being fragmented or reduced to yet another >> chauvinistic movement. It is only this rigorous self definition >> that will facilitate principled alliances with other movements and >> conceptions of marginality. >> >> >> >> >> [1] Presented at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of >> Sociology, on March 25-26th 2010 >> >> >> >> [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats >> and three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! >> >> >> >> [3] Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger >> Source: Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. >> 425-446 Published by: Springer >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From aliens at dataone.in Sat Sep 11 09:38:13 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 09:38:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON Message-ID: <001201cb5166$f4d1b810$de752830$@in> SHREE GANESHAY NAMAH - HAPPY GANESH CHATURTHI EID MUBARAK TO ALL MUSLIM BROTHERS MITCHHAMI DUKADAM TO ALL JAIN BROTHERS - HAPPY SANVATSARY From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Sat Sep 11 13:55:31 2010 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] The art of pain -Artists with roots in the Kashmir Valley Message-ID: <986165.49138.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>   http://www.livemint.com/2010/09/10214610/The-art-of-pain.html   From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 14:45:41 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:45:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Art of Pain Message-ID: on Kashmir by Himanshu Bhagat may press to read in HT mint today http://www.livemint.com/2010/09/10214610/The-art-of-pain.html -- happy two day 2day ( Eid and Ganesh Chauthrthi ) From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 15:06:22 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:06:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Post Peepli [Live] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: given the over narcissistic bureaucratic system in India, i see more terrible things in store for us. What A.Nandy has written is very interesting, because there is something for us to look into our systems that govern us, The Farmer suicides, unlike those earlier industrial suicides are certainly crucial to the our nature of politics which is different from American ... However, the suicide for me still is a subject which if difficult to enter, given the fact that the subject is not there to speak on her/his behalf. it reminds me of those college some days of despair when a friend told me that " hardest of misfortunes are those which never come " but they do come in ones life if drives to commit suicide. Thanks , there are good friends around, unlike greedy politicians who never come to stop a farmer from this extreme step.. Here each farmer may not be looking similar to other farmer, since i believe every body has a different story to tell, and therefore, every suicide different. Further, the word " existential " is very vital to discussion, and may ask us the question about how much we ourselves are alive ? What is that thing which makes us feel that we are truly alive, thus happy or sad even. Or the question cant be asked at all, since it is existential in nature ? similar to discussion between two friends on whether the table is or is not? they were both on the table for a cup of tea love is On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Shailesh Rai wrote: > Hi all, > > The Vidarbha Jan Andolan Samiti, a farmers' advocacy group which keeps a > record of farmer suicides in the region, objected to Peepli Live because > they had a similar interpretation. Here's what the head of the group said: > > http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_vidarbha-farmers-demand-ban-on-peepli-live_1424459 > > Vidarbha Jan Andolan Samiti president Kishore Tiwari said: “Farmers are > driven to suicide because of wrong policies by the government. Instead of > focusing on the deep-rooted problems responsible for farmers’ distress, the > film highlights greed. It sends a wrong message to the public on a crucial > issue." > > The point being made, as I see it, is that desperation is a more appropriate > justification for suicide than self-interest. > > Shailesh > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 4:27 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > >> dear All, >> >> Peepli Live has been talked about in different ways in many forums. Both >> Manmohan Singh and L.K.Advani commented on the film. Advani observed that >> the film maybe mocking the framers families who had to live in the wake of >> these suicides. He claimed a "i have seen them" authenticity to his >> observation. On the other hand Manmohan Singh directly addressed Natha and >> reminded him of "historical necessity" of the unfinished job of capitalism >> in India. >> >> The eloquent silence of Natha in the film will slowly get filled with a >> range of  statements. Advani and Manmohan has produced the pole within which >> this filling up will happen. >> >> Could we read Natha's silence in other ways.? >> >> Here is a quote by Nandy, written in 2000 as an intro to a book, that i >> found extremely illuminating. >> >> "The Indian farmer did not commit suicide the way some businessmen did in >> the 1930s, during the great depression in the United States. Even in their >> desperation, these farmers retained some tenuous grip on life affirmative >> forces. For instance, many of them hoped that the compensation the family >> would get on their death would itself mitigate the suffering of their >> family. Their self-destruction often came packaged in a self-designed, >> calculated, self-sacrifice. To that extent, they remained, even in their >> death, just outside the rim of true despair and the self-destruction that >> comes from the amalgam of utter hopelessness and total meaningless of life. >> Their suicide was not merely a response to the existential question: why >> should we not commit suicide.? It was often a response to a question that >> had a very different philosophical tine to it: are we not more useful to the >> world dead than living?" >> (- Ashis  Nandy, pg xi, in Despair and Modernity, Dehejia, Jha and Hoskote, >> Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi 2000.) >> >> Could we read Natha's silence as a deeper philosophical position to the >> world, that we mistake as weakness or muteness or ignorance.? >> >> warmly >> jeebesh >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 18:00:45 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:00:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Separatists in Kashmir demand 'Islamic State' - The Sunday Indian Magazine Message-ID: The real face of separatist goons is out in open. We saw them coming out and burning public property all over Srinagar even on this holy day of Eid. All this happened under directions from terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF and hate monger Mirwaiz. They called it peace march to Lalchowk. Pakistani flags were being unfurled by extremist elements on rooftops of Lalchowk. Police was asked to maintain restrain as always. It seems the Hawala money is still pouring in from across the border or perhaps it has been blocked completely and the frustration in out on the road. It was important here to share with list members an interview of extremist separatist Aasiyeh (Asiya) Andrabi who is openly advocating an 'Islamic State' and feels not to bother about non-muslims. Tathagata Bhattacharya and Haroon Reshi report from ground zero for The Sunday Indian Magazine. best, -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ ** *Aasiyeh Andrabi **“We want an Islamic state”* ** *Link - http://www.thesundayindian.com/12092010/storyd.asp?sid=9502&pageno=3 * *What is your assessment of the current situation in the Valley?* The people of J&K, specially the Muslims, have long been denied the right of self-determination by India. So since June, the people have waged the Quit J&K movement. This is a mass uprising in which the young and the old, women and children, all are taking part. Of course, India is applying brute force to quell this uprising. They are even using pellet guns which are used to target animals. Israel uses the same against Palestinian protestors. *What about Hindus who are majority in Jammu, Buddhists who are the majority in Ladakh, the Sikhs and even the Shia Muslims?* We are least concerned with non-Muslim decisions. Muslims are the majority and their decision is going to be the final one. *Suppose you get azadi. What next? Geelani wants something, Mirwaiz wants something else, Yasin Malik wants something entirely different. Where do you see your demands fitting in here?* I can't talk about Geelani or anyone else for that matter. I want accession with Pakistan. For now, our one-point agenda is freedom from India. *You are widely recognised as the most radical Islamist hardline voice of the Valley. What kind of Kashmir do you want to create?* Islam is Islam. There is only one true Islam. Inshallah, the Shariat, law of Islam, will become the law of the land too. I don't want Islamic law just for Kashmir but for the entire world. People will be more secure under Islamic law. *Will there be any place for music, cinema, art, literature in the Islamic state you wish to create?* In Quran, it is written that music is even more harmful than wine. People lose their senses when they listen to western and film music. They represent the culture of non-humans. Hollywood and Bollywood are globally responsible for criminalisation of society and other evils. So we will not allow that. There will be no place for nude and obscene painting. Literature is fine but if it criticises Islam, we won't allow it. *Do you want to follow any Islamic state as an example?* There is no ideal Islamic state. Looking at foreign policy, I will give 75 % to Iran. You have been a supporter of armed struggle in Kashmir. But these militants have killed many innocent people in Kashmir and in the rest of India. Today, the world knows about Kashmir because of the Mujahideen's actions. I don't believe they have killed any innocent Kashmiris. They may have killed informers of the Indian security forces. They have done the right thing. *What about the attacks in Mumbai?* The Mumbai attacks were the handiworks of Indian Intelligence and CIA. *Suppose you get the Indian part of Kashmir and the Pakistani part. How will you get the part under Chinese control?* First let's get freedom from India. We will think about China then. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 18:08:55 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:08:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Don=92t_turn_back_the_clock_in_J?= =?windows-1252?q?=26K_-_Jagmohan=2C_former_Governor_J=26K?= Message-ID: Don’t turn back the clock in J&K *The Asian Age* ** *Link - ** http://www.asianage.com/columnists/don%E2%80%99t-turn-back-clock-jk-917* One of the tragic pointers of Indian history is that more often than not Indians have themselves proved to be their worst enemies. This stands reinforced by what the negative forces in our country did in early 1990. It should be clear from the analysis of major events connected with Kashmir’s post-1947 history that there is an overwhelming need to learn from each and every lapse and evolve a new framework of thought and action. Unfortunately, no one is attending to this need. With regard to the stone-throwing mobs that are now daily appearing on the streets of most urban centres of the Valley, old attitudes rooted in superficiality and “short-termism” are once again at display. So far, about 69 persons have died. But there is no sign of a sustained crackdown on the ringleaders, financers and those who are spraying the virus of militant fanaticism in the Valley. What is worse, another “appeasement card” is being put forward in the form of a political package and additional autonomy, without bothering to consider that in the long run such a package and such an autonomy could provide stronger muscle to the forces of subversion and separatism in the Valley. Further, no one is showing any inclination to raise certain basic and pertinent questions in this regard. Are the Kashmiris, like the citizens of the rest of India, not already free under the Constitution of India? Do they not have all the fundamental rights which individuals in modern liberal democracies enjoy? Has their identity, culture, religion or language been undermined in any way by the constitutional arrangements that have been in operation for the last several decades? How would a common Kashmiri be benefited by changing the nomenclature of chief minister to Prime Minister or of governor to Sadar-e-Riyasat, or by ousting the jurisdiction of Supreme Court, the Election Commission and the Comptroller and Auditor General of India? What would happen if the so-called pre-1952 position is restored and only defence, foreign affairs and communications are kept within the jurisdiction of the Union Parliament/government and all the remaining items are assigned exclusively to the state legislature/government? How would the state government then meet its requirements of finances which at present are provided by the Union government to the tune of 74 per cent of its needs? Could the “nuts and bolts” of objective reality and the need to have smooth and workable relationship between the state and the Union be dispensed with? To these and allied questions, no satisfactory answers can be provided by the proponents of autonomy and the “political package”. They merely harp on the promises supposed to have been made to Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah, forgetting that what matters is not the individual but the state government without whose concurrence nothing was done. They take advantage of the widespread ignorance that prevails in the country about the rather complex manner in which constitutional relations between Jammu and Kashmir and the Union have evolved. They hide the fact that Jammu and Kashmir already enjoys, albeit unjustifiably, far more powers than are available to other states of the Union. They also forget that at the time of the 1975 Kashmir Accord, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi had made it clear that “the clock could not be put back”, and that the “provisions of the Indian Constitution applied to the state of Jammu and Kashmir ‘without adaptation or modification’ were unalterable”. The only concession made in 1975, in the spirit of bonhomie, by the Government of India was to consider changes in the “adapted and modified” provisions, if a specific proposal in this regard was received from the state government. But neither the government of Sheikh Abdullah nor that of Dr Farooq Abdullah could send any proposal, primarily because the changes earlier made were all necessitated by practical consideration. The State Autonomy Committee Report (1999), sent to the Union government 24 years after the Kashmir Accord, is nothing but a broad repetition of what was said on behalf of the National Conference in 1975. It ignores the huge volume of water that has since flowed under the bridges of Yamuna and Jhelum, and does not indicate how the changes that are being advocated now would improve the lot of the common man and how the expenditure on the state Five-Year Plans would be met. Nor does it care to explain how certain security and other contingencies would be dealt with? What, for instance, would happen if Article 356 is not applicable and if the state refuses or fails to comply with any requirement of the Union in respect of defence, foreign affairs or communication? Would this not cause an intractable constitutional deadlokck? The acceptance by the Union government of any of the phoney ideas contained in the aforesaid report would add another blunder to the series of blunders committed in the past, which have so far cost the nation over 50,000 lives, besides several thousand-crores of hard-earned taxpayers’ money. While it is not likely to make even a slight dent in the criticality of the present situation, it could strengthen the forces of disarray in the Valley, give rise to fresh agitations in other regions of the state and become a precedent for separatists in other part of the country to quote and demand. Even otherwise, the unfortunate history of Jammu and Kashmir in the post-1947 period warns us in no uncertain terms that the decision taken under momentary pressures and on short-term considerations have proved disastrous in the long run. Too many infections have already accumulated in the body politics of Jammu and Kashmir. If we do not have the skill or will to drain them out, let us at least not add more to them. The need of the hour is that we should make a new beginning, educate our brothers and sisters in Kashmir about the true position in respect of their political, social and cultural freedoms and tell them that we as fellow countrymen have already helped them to the tune of `95,000 crores from 1989-90 to 2009-10, and would continue to discharge our obligations in this respect in future to make them a happy and prosperous community of the Union. This concludes a two-part series Jagmohan is a former governor of J&K and a former Union minister -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 18:15:36 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:15:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Take control of Kashmir, Hindu group tells central government Message-ID: *Take control of Kashmir, Hindu group tells central government* Link - http://www.sindhtoday.net/news/2/174958.htm *Jammu, Sep 11 (IANS)* Panun Kashmir, an organisation of Kashmiri Hindus, Saturday asked the central government to act now to save Kashmir from becoming a hub of radical Islamists. Pointing towards massive protests that erupted after the Eid-ul-Fitr prayers in Srinagar Saturday as separatists led a procession to Lal Chowk, the city centre, while a mob torched a police barrack outside the Hazratbal shrine, Panun Kashmir said any delay in taking action against radical elements would prove costly. Panun Kashmir chairman Ajay Charngoo said at a news conference in Jammu that it appeared that “Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, by suggesting anti-national measures like diluting the Armed Forces Special Powers Act and jobs for stone throwers and honourable rehabilitation of militants, was pursuing a hidden agenda of the separatists.” “There was hardly any difference between Omar Abdullah’s plans and (separatist) Syed Ali Shah Geelani’s agenda of seeking secession of Kashmir from India,” Charngoo said. Violence and anti-India protests in the valley have evoked serious concerns among minorities in the state. Sikh leaders have already apprised the central government of their sense of insecurity, he said. Sharing these concerns, Charngoo said the central government “should not allow itself to be blackmailed by Islamic fundamentalist forces that have taken control of Kashmir”. -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 21:40:10 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 21:40:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Apple Industry Disaster Message-ID: all due to liberalization, privatization and corruption. see: http://www.pragoti.org/node/4123 "Now in such a situation if the apple in the market fetches a price of just Rs 140 to Rs 300 , it means a disaster is in the offing. Interestingly this year the apple crop is the largest and is termed as a bumper crop with and estimate of over 3.25 crore boxes. Last year there were just 1 crore. But the farmers have been looted by a cartel of traders, commission agents and their political counterparts landing in a situation where they would not even be able to meet the expenses what to talk about earning." Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 22:06:49 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:06:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. In-Reply-To: <42F6262B-A7EE-43AD-99E9-B10DB25C4030@sarai.net> References: <13208.34615.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <42F6262B-A7EE-43AD-99E9-B10DB25C4030@sarai.net> Message-ID: Hoisting of pakitsan flag and burning of public properties has exposed all eleents of sunni jehadis in kashmir On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Gowhar, > > Let me add to Sanjay's comment. I will write a more detailed response later. > Right now a bit snowed under. But I especially appreciate the honesty with > which you come across with your own doubts and questions about the > construction of identity. Especially the tension  between the self-awareness > of being the member of a minority in one sense, and the majority in another. > I have always thought of the question of identity as having a fluidity, an > almost tactile and subtle slipperiness that congeals into something grim and > viscous the moment one tries to define oneself. > > The multitudes that each of us contain, and the currents that flow through > us, cannot ever be adequately represented by a single name, regardless of > whether that name points to an ethnic, or a national, or a religious or any > other kind of affiliation. > > That is why, ultimately, all forms of identity based politics, regardless of > origins, regardless of destinations, visit the very people they claim as > their subjects, in the form of persistent nightmares of loyalty and treason. > That said, it cannot be denied that one inhabits an identitiy if one is made > to wear it like a prison uniform or an armour. To ignore the presence of > identity in such a context would be to ignore the reality of incarceration. > The question is, how does one know that the prison uniform is something one > can choose to cease to wear, when one is released. > > looking forward to more discussion on this, > > best, > > Shuddha > > On 10-Sep-10, at 7:38 PM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > >> Dear Gowhar >> >> Thank you for sketching out a very deft, thoughtful and nuanced >> account of Kashmiri marginality. I hope that as the colours and >> details are filled in this will turn into a substantial contribution >> to the discourse on Kashmir. >> >> Do please keep us all posted >> >> Warmest Eid greetings too! >> >> Sanjay Kak >> >> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:25 AM, gowhar fazli >> wrote: >>> >>> This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of political >>> difference would benefit from your engaged responses. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Gowhar Fazili >>> >>> >>> Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] >>> by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 >>> >>> By Gowhar Fazili >>> >>> >>> To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around Kashmir >>> into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the Pakistani and the >>> Kashmiri discourses.  While the Indian and Pakistani discourses (as detailed >>> below), accommodate Kashmiri people and the history of their collective >>> struggles only if, and when, these buttress their respective positions, the >>> Kashmiri discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the >>> dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and fragmented >>> politics that exists within, and the connections these have with the outside >>> world. >>> >>> These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of claims >>> and counter claims.  For those who have not borne the immediate brunt of the >>> conflict these generate excitement and passion, and the discourse is >>> consumed through various media like an IPL cricket match.  The Indian state >>> and the nationalists of various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, >>> Secularists, unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, >>> including the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, >>> the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the development >>> achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of Indian legitimacy and >>> control in Kashmir.  Kashmiri alienation, and separatist movements figure in >>> this narrative, if at all, variously, as consequences of external >>> interference, uneven development, appeasement, result of one-off political >>> mistakes made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due >>> course >>>  when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse denies >>> Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous political behavior. >>> It betrays amnesia around the rich history of struggles in Kashmir that >>> preceded accession in 1947 that still continue to inspire Kashmir. >>> >>> The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and dwells on >>> the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should have been theirs by >>> the logic of partition.  It focuses on the denial of self-determination to >>> the people and disregard of the UN resolutions, calling for plebiscite in >>> the region.  It recounts the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in >>> their view the continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri >>> Muslims feel towards Pakistan.   Though Pakistan lends moral and diplomatic >>> support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, it devalues the >>> nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have had with the Indian state >>> over the last sixty years, largely independent of Pakistan. >>> >>> The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized position with >>> respect to the other two discourses imagines itself to be at the centre of >>> the current political struggle. It draws from a long history of >>> marginalization that predates modernity, tracing back Kashmiri dislike and >>> resistance against foreign occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the >>> subsequent progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the >>> Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian regime.  It >>> leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar Treaty), when Kashmir was >>> sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab Singh for Seventy- five Lakh >>> Nanakshahi rupees[2],  the excessive taxation to recover this money that >>> followed, leading to the famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of >>>  Kashmiris died; the systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and >>> discrimination on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; >>> the 13th July 1931 >>>  Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the year >>> 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected Prime-Minister >>> of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on charges of conspiracy and >>> sedition, arresting along with him the socio-economic revolution that was >>> underway.  It presumes the subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody >>> for twenty years to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with >>> extreme suppression, corruption and cooption.  It sees changes made over the >>> years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in an attempt to bring >>> Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as bulldozing of the residual safeguards >>> against assimilation.  It cites failure of India to make progress on the >>> various agreements and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of >>> autonomy, etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful >>> policy.) >>> >>> The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging of the >>> JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, the mass uprising >>> for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 when Kashmiri youth took to >>> arms against the Indian state,  and such, form the key markers around which >>> the narrative of victimhood and valor is woven.  Not surprisingly the Indian >>> national days are designated as black days (including the day Indian army >>> landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and blackout.  The narrative >>> erases the moments of compromise and relative calm that Kashmiris have >>> enjoyed in spurts in the intervening years giving rise to the educated, >>> middle class which is spearheading the current separatist movement. >>> >>> Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns debates >>> around these discourses emerging from respective camps.  Spokespersons, >>> scholars, military think tanks and a significantly large number of literate >>> and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized into the importance of each of these >>> claims and possess ability to maneuver through controversies to establish >>> their political claims.  The positions are entrenched and provide for little >>> flexibility.  The dominant narratives have also found their way into the >>> colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, humor, are expressed >>> with reference to these moments.  To mention just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas >>> yeeha balaay’  ‘Had not the forty-seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the >>> year Indian Army landed in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. >>> The expression is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at >>> someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through >>>  corruption. >>> >>> While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, >>> overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like people anywhere >>> else, the fact of being born in a territory, where the conflict around its >>> disputed nature has raged to varying degrees for over the last sixty years, >>> complicates and intensifies concern for some identities at the cost of >>> others.  The political uncertainty impacts different members and groups >>> differently as they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught >>> from within and without.  To grossly simplify, for example a large majority >>> of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied themselves with >>> Indian right-wing parties.  Kashmiri Shia and Sunni Muslims largely identify >>> with the broad contours of separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, >>> Gujjars maintain an ambivalent position depending on where they are >>> physically, located.  People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically >>> isolated from >>>  the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do not >>> manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly do so for >>> obvious reasons.  Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, people of Doda, >>> Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu depending on which of their >>> interests and identities are threatened at a particular moment of time. >>>  People of Kargil gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist >>> majority discriminates against them.  Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and >>> Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged discrimination by >>> Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the Indian state. >>> >>> Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, gender, >>> region, religion and political orientation. These identities contract within >>> and extend beyond the geographical boundaries of Kashmir in different >>> situations and along different questions. Yet it is the collective >>> experience of a shared geography, history, language, culture and meanings >>> that make Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering >>> others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri narrative >>> presented above which at this moment has a favorable bias towards the >>> masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends on where one is located >>> within the crosscutting mesh of identities and experiences and intellectual >>> trajectories. >>> >>> In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other identities, by >>> race, religion and language. Physically, they do not look, sound or behave >>> like stereotypical Indians and are often harassed and made to prove their >>> nationality at the ticket counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside >>> Kashmir, given the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the >>> consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face  difficulty in >>> finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim ghettos; receive snares >>> and unwelcome comments while travelling; are easy prey for the security >>> agencies seeking instant suspects for terror attacks; cannot stick their >>> neck out too much in day-to-day struggles so as not to risk being falsely >>> reported; cannot easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries >>> (for being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with the >>> word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly illegitimate.) >>> >>> Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for the >>> majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods in Kashmir, >>> Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who deserve to be eliminated or >>> incarcerated or insulted on the flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for >>> ready retribution in wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, >>> vehicles stopped, people disembarked and detained any moment and without >>> explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to shoot people >>> as a preventive measure against possible future terror attacks. Public >>> Safety Act provides for preventive custody without trial even before one >>> engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. Men, women and children are susceptible >>> to sexual assault and torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the >>> above experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of the >>> Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective marginalized identity. >>> >>> The militants against the security forces, and the consequent deaths of >>> Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in crossfire, or killing of >>> assumed or real Indian agents, the damage to personal properties, cultural >>> and religious places, though used as firewood for Indian propaganda against >>> the separatists, enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has >>> also resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from >>> anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious fundamentalists >>> responsible and hate them for this reason. Still others have turned overly >>> apologetic, servile and defensive. But curiously it has not resulted in >>> increased love for India among many. >>> >>> The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance towards >>> those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the dominant sense of >>> victimhood or those who try to channelize their anger and energies >>> differently. The identities which are in-between or fall outside the markers >>> of dominant Kashmiri identity and victimhood are rendered invisible or >>> sought to be assimilated or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in >>> consonance with how radical identities often turn upon their own people who >>> may choose divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. >>> >>> This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of development like >>> poor representation in civil services, academics, armed forces; backwardness >>> of the region in terms of industrial development, educational >>> infrastructure; employment opportunities within and outside the state. It >>> also draws from the narrative of regional discrimination establishing how >>> India has favored development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of >>> funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or compromisers and >>> punish those who tried deviate or rose in opposition to the centers >>> hegemony. This practice continues. In the present times multinational >>> private enterprise or funding cannot move in due to instability and >>> disturbance. Irrespective of this the deals have been struck by the >>> government with foreign companies for example, power projects, that are >>> complete sell-outs helped by the fact that people are alienated from the >>> state sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The >>> stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. >>> >>> >>> >>> Kashmiri Responses >>> >>> Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a test >>> case to understand marginality and its directions among people argues that >>> “the marginal person, having taken on elements of the dominant culture, is >>> unable to return unchanged to his or her original group. Thus, the marginal >>> person is caught in a structure of double ambivalence: unable either to >>> leave or to return to the original group; unable either to merge with the >>> new group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to this >>> field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here termed >>> assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” >>> >>> Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success pursued >>> various directions in order to overcome their personal and collective sense >>> of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four directions in which the >>> marginalized react as suggested by Weisberger namely assimilation, return, >>> transcendence, poise we can find parallels for each in different time >>> periods, groups, institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as >>> contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. Kashmiris have >>> also produced a wide range of political, intellectual and strategic >>> responses that range over categories like: separatists, autonomists, >>> Islamists, secularist, loyalist, anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, >>> apologist, radical, pacifist, self loathing and a myriad of other responses, >>> many, still nascent and yet to be born.    (I have to develop this) >>> >>> One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh attempt >>> to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill introduced in the >>> Legislative assembly.  The bill seeks to over-rule the High Court decision >>> against the provision that renders a woman non state subject if she marries >>> a non-state-subject.  The same does not apply to men who marry outside. >>>  Interestingly BJP and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have >>> started protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, >>> betraying support through the lack of outrage among various political >>> groups.  The silence is symptomatic of the male patriarchal bias in the >>> dominant discourse in Kashmir.  Not to say that BJP and its allies are by >>> any means less patriarchal.  They possibly see the women’s matrimony as a >>> means to extend their connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to >>> increase their likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is >>> assumed to be >>>  more common among Hindus in Jammu. >>> >>> >>> Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along >>> communal and regional lines.  While the right wing Hindu formations fanned >>> sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim >>> separatists and mainstream regional parties saw the move as yet another >>> attempt to change demography in Kashmir, since the shrine board included >>> individuals who were non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the >>> controversy provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. >>> >>> >>> >>> Indian Responses >>> >>> The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, apathy or >>> disdain.  Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent on or apathetic >>> towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not share blood ties or see >>> commonality of interest with Kashmiris.  Those who empathize, have their >>> empathies conditioned by their location within the mainstream Indian >>> politics.  Indian intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own >>> respective projects rather than look at it from the point of view of >>> Kashmiris and their history.  Similarly Indian Muslims and their >>> sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect Kashmiris to >>> behave in a manner that does not threaten the survival of Indian Muslims >>> through a backlash, which would in turn harm the fragile secular polity. >>>  The left sees it as a class problem or at best that of regional imbalance >>> and because of false consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, >>> unfit for class struggle and >>>  revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the media >>> with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as they see them >>> as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties and are mostly terrorists >>> and fanatics. >>> >>> The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their >>> respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. Since >>> funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, based in Delhi, they >>> exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil society’ in its NGO avatar >>> develops in Kashmir. The initiatives presently active in Kashmir have >>> diverse ideological backgrounds.  If we count out the covert intelligence >>> operations in the form of NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left >>> leaning and feminists each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of >>> fissuring of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy >>> respectively.  While these fault-lines exist, to see them as detached from >>> the nationality question does violence to Kashmir.  It would be like the >>> British describing colonialism condition in India as male chauvinism or >>> caste oppression. >>> >>> Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state towards a >>> negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the seasonal olive-branch >>> overtures by the State as Muslim appeasement, while at the same time >>> cultivating a constituency among Pandits, and caste and class groups among >>> Hindus in Jammu.  They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their >>> Hinduvadi constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or >>> through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. >>> >>> The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression through >>> violent means.  The talks are offered and withdrawn often at the peril of >>> those who come forward and end up being disowned by the community for the >>> failure and embarrassment. >>> >>> There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir merely >>> as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present ‘foreign hand’, >>> that portrays all protest as political intrigue and at best a result of >>> internal power struggle for control over resources. >>> >>> But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir over a >>> longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of eternal return, >>> of protests, repression, compromise, corruption and back to protests. >>> >>> >>> >>> Encouragement of marginalities within >>> >>> Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri women >>> and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male society which is >>> assumed to be patriarchal and dominating.  In any discussion on Kashmir, the >>> question, ‘but what about the women, the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, >>> Dogras, Pandits?’ and so on invariably comes up.  The centre is able to >>> subvert the mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the >>> issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In turn the >>> mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to suppress or ignore the >>> discrimination within or around itself in response to this subversion.  In >>> case of Kashmir, the demand for the right to self determination is hostage >>> to the question of what happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, >>> Hindus of Jammu and Buddhists of Ladakh.  On the other hand the dominant >>> discourse around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed >>>  other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various >>> denominations at various other levels. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris >>> >>> The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ of the >>> Indian Army in Kashmir.  It is followed by a legalistic discourse on the >>> nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with the Indian union.  This >>> discourse forms the backdrop against which the Kashmiris are examined and >>> variously described: as being the symbols of Indian secularism for having >>> willfully joined the Indian union inspite of their religious and >>> geographical affinity with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and >>> non-violent or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, >>> duplicity and deceit. >>> >>> This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and provides a >>> good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and denied autonomous >>> self-definition and a dignified independent identity.  The only identities >>> permissible to Kashmiris are the one that pass the litmus test of Indian >>> ideals, the ideals which the Indians may themselves not have been able to >>> uphold.  If the identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit >>> within the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then >>> these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the nation. >>>  Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and only to the extent >>> that it serves various political purposes and then left to deal with the >>> schizophrenic condition on their own. >>> >>> Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by their >>> tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the denial of self >>> determination only as a milestones in their long struggle for emancipation, >>> which began much earlier and continues till date.  Kashmiris subscribing to >>> this narrative see themselves as de-facto and temporary citizens of India >>> who have been subjugated against their will. >>> >>> While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into the >>> discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their culture, they >>> resent its use to make them into the essence of Indian ideal and react by >>> adopting the exact opposite stereotype.  Simultaneously the emphasis on >>> their affinities and continuities with regions that spread beyond the >>> de-facto borders of the Indian state—that is the connection with Pakistan, >>> Afghanistan, Central Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to >>> establish their separateness. >>> >>> While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving the >>> issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare enormous resources, >>> for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is as urgent as dignity, certainty >>> and security of their selves and yet they are left with no choice but to >>> stake their all and as long as it takes to achieve it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Self, Community and the Universe >>> >>> In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with myself.  I >>> find myself marginalized from the community in which I was born because my >>> natural intellectual and emotional trajectory pushed me to transcend my >>> ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of and influences from the exposure to >>> other cultures, communities and intellectual currents.  In the process I >>> hope to evolve by contrasting these fragments and make something new out of >>> them and thus constantly manage to recreate myself.  This I assume is a >>> normal course of healthy life for me.  The process however distances me from >>> my community in terms of my appearance, opinions as well as associations. >>> >>> But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to become >>> too different from it in terms of my looks or my subjectivity, I would be >>> perceived as a betrayer.  Apart from this, seeing the community under >>> distress, I personally sense my own betrayal.  I get forced to identify with >>> the community and represent it.  The struggle I am confronted with is how to >>> retain the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the same >>> time not abandon my community in distress.    The third commitment is to the >>> universal whole, the affinity and commitment one feels towards the shared >>> values and heritage of human community.   It is hard to negotiate commitment >>> to self, community and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation >>> is important since a sense of justice is at stake.  The luxury of being able >>> to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the communal sense of >>> victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its favour.  For example when the >>>  outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my >>> emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective Kashmiri >>> identity becomes the focus of my attention. >>> >>> >>> As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the same >>> time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things.  But in this >>> lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. >>> >>> >>> Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple >>> marginalities at the same time.  Some marginalities I embody, like Muslim, >>> South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, caste, rural, >>> disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them.  I cannot have my >>> concerns limited to myself and my community since my own victimhood shapes >>> my identification with other marginalities. But how exactly does one locate >>> oneself with respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one >>> negotiate between strategy and idealism?  When do I remain silent about a >>> particular marginality to privilege the other?  When do I maintain strategic >>> silence about other marginalities to keep certain marginality in focus?  How >>> does one combine these simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular >>> marginality does not acquire fascistic proportions? >>> >>> >>> This negotiation has to take place in the context where differential >>> importance is given to marginalities by the state or dominant interests in >>> order to subvert, fragment and hijack marginalities. One marginality is >>> played up against the other. Demands are counter posed—something more >>> general or ephemeral like ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like >>> ‘bijli-sadak-pani’.  It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to >>> vane them off the other.  The choice offered is often between dignity and >>> basic amenities of life. >>> >>> >>> Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality.  The >>> more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a marginalized >>> community.  This triggers one-upmanship within the marginalized group in the >>> race to lay claim as real representatives of the marginality. One has to >>> arrive at a position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a >>> radical rant. >>> >>> In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of >>> marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with other >>> marginalities without, the process of emancipation of different >>> marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is need for an ongoing >>> dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of claims of marginality and to >>> resolve conflict of interest and issues of justice in the context of >>> different marginalities working together.  There is need for democracy >>> within the alliances of marginalities.  For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be >>> redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and substantive >>> emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that constitute it or risk being >>> fragmented or reduced to yet another chauvinistic movement.   It is only >>> this rigorous self definition that will facilitate principled alliances with >>> other movements and conceptions of marginality. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [1]  Presented  at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of Sociology, >>>  on March 25-26th 2010 >>> >>> >>> >>> [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats and >>> three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! >>> >>> >>> >>> [3]  Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger Source: >>> Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. 425-446 Published by: >>> Springer >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sat Sep 11 23:03:14 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:03:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Digvijay Divas"; Swami Vivekananda conquered the world... Message-ID: <002f01cb51d7$6a64cac0$3f2e6040$@in> This was the Day on which Swami Vivekananda gave the world-famous speech in 1893 at Chicago in the World Parliament of Religions. We are celebrating it as "Digvijay Divas"; Swami Vivekananda conquered the world on this day with his spirituality in practice and that too at a time when India was not even independent. http://www.narendramodi.com/ This was the Day on which Swami Vivekananda gave the world-famous speech in 1893 at Chicago in the World Parliament of Religions. We are celebrating it as "Digvijay Divas"; Swami Vivekananda conquered the world on this day with his spirituality in practice and that too at a time when India was not even independent. It was for the first time that the message of universal Brotherhood and its proper understanding was given to the western world. We all know that when Swami Vivekananda addressed the audience as 'Sisters and Brothers of America' it had an electrifying effect on them. Because it was not merely a form of address but behind those words was the great spiritual strength of India, which has always proclaimed and practised the universal brotherhood in her long history of more than 5000 years. Had the world followed the message of the universal brotherhood, possibly, 100 years later it wouldn't have had to face the fatal day of the world trade center attack, September 11, 2001. But the irony is that such a uniquely great philosophy that can show the path to the world to handle the menace of terrorism itself is being termed as "Saffron terrorism". That too by none other than the home minister of this country. Guided by the agenda of petty Party Politics and appeasement, it seems he intends to root out all the possibilities of Peace and Development. In the face of this predicament, it becomes the duty of each and everyone to understand this message, to imbibe it in our life and to make it reach out the people. Swami Vivekananda worked for Strong India to guide the whole Humanity. Swamiji, in his lectures, gave a call for Universal Brotherhood. He said that the man on this earth has continued too long to be fanatic about insisting that his religion alone is true and other religions, being false, had no right to exist. He also stressed that as long as this situation persists there can be only bloodshed in the name of religion and no brotherhood which, the practice of religion should actually bring about, would be possible. How prophetic he was proved more than hundred years later by the WTC event of 11th September! But how long the humanity would be drenched in the blood of fanaticism? At present though it appears that fanaticism and terrorism are engulfing the whole world, actually it is like the flame that flickers the brightest before getting extinguished. Swami Vivekananda had said that, "Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendants, fanaticism, have long possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled this earth with violence, drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilisation and sent whole nations to despair. Had it not been for these possible demons, human society would be far more advanced than it is now? But their time has come." It is not that he just gave the call for Universal Brotherhood, but also pointed out that Universal Brotherhood is not possible without inclusive approach. Today humanity is facing three levels of challenges, mainly due to the lack of inclusive approach- 1. Co-existence of multiple faith and civilizations 2. Sustainable development of Science and Economics in harmony with nature 3. Geopolitical tolerance in warring and competing nationalities Strong Indian nation based on the values of out rich civilization is the only solution to all these challenges. 'Good of all' -Sarve bhavantu sukhinah....,the philosophy preached by our rishis (sages) is the only way out. It is 'sanatan'- beyond time. It is as relevant today; perhaps more, as it was in their time. But the question arises is it possible in today's world. We are trying our best to make it possible in Gujarat and I am happy with the success of our efforts. "Gujarat model of inclusive development" is basically the Indian model of harmonised growth. After consistently following this model even in the mid of all types of hindrances today anyone can see how successful Gujarat is in combating above three challenges. If one tries to unveil the facts underneath the malicious lies, it can be clearly seen that the policy of "accomplishments and not appeasement" of Gujarat has created a peaceful environment for growth without discriminating on caste, creed or religion. Gujarat is truly wedded to the principle of sarva dharma sambhav. Not only the Co-existence of multiple faith but synergic development of all sections of the society regardless of caste or community. Time and again, those crafting calumny against Gujarat for meager vote bank politics are being slapped on their faces when Gujarat's model of inclusive growth is praised by different people and in different forums. One such document is Justice Rajinder Sachar committee report that shows Muslims are the happiest in Gujarat. While people are busy deliberating on Sustainable development, Gujarat's commitment has started showing results on quite a few fronts- whether it is Agricultural growth or Human development index or GDP. Sustainable development calls for innovation, cooperation and the will power to make the changes that the world needs. Gujarat has shown it in all its initiatives like providing round the clock three phase electricity to all urban and rural hamlets, providing institutional deliveries through PPP route, linking the rivers, micro-irrigation, BRTS, riverfront, climate change initiative, evening courts and many more. In Gujarat, we are determined to have an economy and society that has low-carbon emissions and a prosperous and healthy future. Gujarat has also taken initiatives like Samras gram where a village is awarded if the local self government is formed unanimously. On the first day of the Golden Jubilee year of the State, all past and current MLAs and MPs of Gujarat during last 50 years were invited and a resolution was made to celebrate the Golden Jubilee, Swarnim Jayanti together without political differences. The mooting of compulsory voting bill too is an attempt to create a healthy democracy and competitive politics. Today's Bharat is the land of youth. And the young have both zeal and strength to do something for the country. They are empowered with advanced knowledge and technology. Be it our Samay Daan Programme or the CM Fellowship Programme or the thousands of email that I daily receive from the youth, the fresh vigor and enthusiasm in them, makes frees from the worries of India's Future. Swamiji's 150th anniversay is approaching, Eleanor Stark of America in his book "The Gift Unopened" calls Swamiji to be the unique gift for the mankind still unopened. Come, let's unite in taking a pledge on this occassion to open this gift by living the message of Swamiji. To commemorate "Digvijay Divas" we must follow Swamiji's message, we should do it with deeds and not words to usher in a better tomorrow. Let us honour this great man by trying to realize his dream of a Strong India by following in his footsteps. It can be best concluded in the words of Swami Vivekananda, "Work out the salvation of this land and of the whole world, each of you thinking that the entire burden is on your shoulders. Carry the light and the life of the Vedanta to every door, and rouse up the divinity that is hidden within every soul. Then, whatever may be the measure of your success, you will have this satisfaction that you have lived, worked, and died for a great cause. In the success of this cause, howsoever brought about, is centered the salvation of humanity here and hereafter." From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 23:22:27 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:22:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. In-Reply-To: References: <13208.34615.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <42F6262B-A7EE-43AD-99E9-B10DB25C4030@sarai.net> Message-ID: Well, to say the least, the article is dense, and is a very serious attempt to understand the complex nature of conflict.good to read it again. Such reflections are likely to come up in future, not only from Valley directly, but from outside as well. More and more serious reflections from Indian intellectuals on Kashmir would pile up in coming days, because it is debated in many circles now, by those who look at it beyond that beaten track :Nationalistic Perspective. Talking on Kashmir a little away from that conventional perspective looks anti national to most in India which is normal to some and abnormal to some, depends what is your the mental makeup? Normally, kashmir debators in Indian are those who are directly or indirectly the beneficiary of the faulty systems here. and naturally they are those who dont want the satus quo to change, fearing some catastrophe, and on the other hand those who are earning a little more than two square meals are content with one liner that Kashmir is the head/crown of India ,which needs protection, and therefore, any killing justified. Forget about the millions who dont know where Kashmir is and what it is all about. They dont know anything beyond Roti Kapda aur Juggi/makkan. Serious thinking would come from disillusioned lot. From the people who know how dangerous the Indfian establishment has become. Commen Wealth Games is one little example,where 30 billion dolloars have magically disappeared in the names of games. Food grains are rotting. Almost all the edible things are contaminated including medicine. Land and water is sold to companies clandestinley, and more than 10000 billion US$ are siphoned to banks outisde India. Extra judicial killings are in the interest of Nations... the list is long...Shame so, serious minded people will talk about Babri mosque Demolition and Gujarat riots for decades and decades now, and will question article 370 and its dilution in the coming years also. Questioning article 370 from BJP perspective would be a joke So, the more and more the question of accountability comes up, the more and the more Kashmir question will come up. Because the establishment would do it possible best to hide its corrupt inefficient vices, and therefore, more suffering and therefore, more debates on the very fabric of Nature State. People would talk about the legal status of Kashmir ? What happened in 1947 and beyond is a constant now..... That is how it can be; as i see further, about what Gowhar said : "The process however distances me from my community in terms of my appearance, opinions as well as associations." I just happened to convey my Eid Mubarak to friends in Valley, and almost all of them expressed utter frustration One of my friends said that he would like to die in a stampede anywhere but it will be his own choice. He further said , that he wants to laugh and laugh and laugh outside Kashmir. Another, poet, said to me that everything is quite clear in kashmir but nobody knows what it is ? Another said, that if they listen to X or Y, why they dont listen to me also. He said that about the Kashmir problem, he was never taken into confidence. and therefore, he feels alienated even amongst those who think that they know what is the nature of kashmir politics. They are all aged 60 and above. They younger lot, say 20 - 30 years old know their identity, if they are living in Kashmir, and are not exposed to other cultures which might change them a bit, as Gowhar feels. But i doubt if there are is single thread of thought prevalent in Kashmir, except that " Go India Go". Elites in Kashmir are generally similar to opportunists who are not in dearth here. Gowhar further adds " I cannot have my concerns limited to myself and my community " which is a radical departure from people like poet Iqbal, who openly expressed that he would certainly nurse his own ailing mother first if there is other one next to her. ( Gowhar, plz confirm ) This shift too can motivate non-kashmiri intellectuals to speak about kashmir conflict at the core. This approach is good for those who doubt, things that look solid, and things that dont yield to meaning without a referent,. which is about self at the same time, i believe.... love is On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Hoisting of pakitsan flag and burning of public properties has exposed > all eleents of sunni jehadis in kashmir > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > > Dear Gowhar, > > > > Let me add to Sanjay's comment. I will write a more detailed response later. > > Right now a bit snowed under. But I especially appreciate the honesty with > > which you come across with your own doubts and questions about the > > construction of identity. Especially the tension  between the self-awareness > > of being the member of a minority in one sense, and the majority in another. > > I have always thought of the question of identity as having a fluidity, an > > almost tactile and subtle slipperiness that congeals into something grim and > > viscous the moment one tries to define oneself. > > > > The multitudes that each of us contain, and the currents that flow through > > us, cannot ever be adequately represented by a single name, regardless of > > whether that name points to an ethnic, or a national, or a religious or any > > other kind of affiliation. > > > > That is why, ultimately, all forms of identity based politics, regardless of > > origins, regardless of destinations, visit the very people they claim as > > their subjects, in the form of persistent nightmares of loyalty and treason. > > That said, it cannot be denied that one inhabits an identitiy if one is made > > to wear it like a prison uniform or an armour. To ignore the presence of > > identity in such a context would be to ignore the reality of incarceration. > > The question is, how does one know that the prison uniform is something one > > can choose to cease to wear, when one is released. > > > > looking forward to more discussion on this, > > > > best, > > > > Shuddha > > > > On 10-Sep-10, at 7:38 PM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > > >> Dear Gowhar > >> > >> Thank you for sketching out a very deft, thoughtful and nuanced > >> account of Kashmiri marginality. I hope that as the colours and > >> details are filled in this will turn into a substantial contribution > >> to the discourse on Kashmir. > >> > >> Do please keep us all posted > >> > >> Warmest Eid greetings too! > >> > >> Sanjay Kak > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:25 AM, gowhar fazli > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of political > >>> difference would benefit from your engaged responses. > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> Gowhar Fazili > >>> > >>> > >>> Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] > >>> by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 > >>> > >>> By Gowhar Fazili > >>> > >>> > >>> To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around Kashmir > >>> into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the Pakistani and the > >>> Kashmiri discourses.  While the Indian and Pakistani discourses (as detailed > >>> below), accommodate Kashmiri people and the history of their collective > >>> struggles only if, and when, these buttress their respective positions, the > >>> Kashmiri discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the > >>> dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and fragmented > >>> politics that exists within, and the connections these have with the outside > >>> world. > >>> > >>> These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of claims > >>> and counter claims.  For those who have not borne the immediate brunt of the > >>> conflict these generate excitement and passion, and the discourse is > >>> consumed through various media like an IPL cricket match.  The Indian state > >>> and the nationalists of various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, > >>> Secularists, unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, > >>> including the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, > >>> the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the development > >>> achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of Indian legitimacy and > >>> control in Kashmir.  Kashmiri alienation, and separatist movements figure in > >>> this narrative, if at all, variously, as consequences of external > >>> interference, uneven development, appeasement, result of one-off political > >>> mistakes made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due > >>> course > >>>  when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse denies > >>> Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous political behavior. > >>> It betrays amnesia around the rich history of struggles in Kashmir that > >>> preceded accession in 1947 that still continue to inspire Kashmir. > >>> > >>> The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and dwells on > >>> the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should have been theirs by > >>> the logic of partition.  It focuses on the denial of self-determination to > >>> the people and disregard of the UN resolutions, calling for plebiscite in > >>> the region.  It recounts the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in > >>> their view the continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri > >>> Muslims feel towards Pakistan.   Though Pakistan lends moral and diplomatic > >>> support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, it devalues the > >>> nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have had with the Indian state > >>> over the last sixty years, largely independent of Pakistan. > >>> > >>> The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized position with > >>> respect to the other two discourses imagines itself to be at the centre of > >>> the current political struggle. It draws from a long history of > >>> marginalization that predates modernity, tracing back Kashmiri dislike and > >>> resistance against foreign occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the > >>> subsequent progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the > >>> Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian regime.  It > >>> leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar Treaty), when Kashmir was > >>> sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab Singh for Seventy- five Lakh > >>> Nanakshahi rupees[2],  the excessive taxation to recover this money that > >>> followed, leading to the famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of > >>>  Kashmiris died; the systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and > >>> discrimination on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; > >>> the 13th July 1931 > >>>  Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the year > >>> 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected Prime-Minister > >>> of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on charges of conspiracy and > >>> sedition, arresting along with him the socio-economic revolution that was > >>> underway.  It presumes the subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody > >>> for twenty years to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with > >>> extreme suppression, corruption and cooption.  It sees changes made over the > >>> years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in an attempt to bring > >>> Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as bulldozing of the residual safeguards > >>> against assimilation.  It cites failure of India to make progress on the > >>> various agreements and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of > >>> autonomy, etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful > >>> policy.) > >>> > >>> The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging of the > >>> JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, the mass uprising > >>> for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 when Kashmiri youth took to > >>> arms against the Indian state,  and such, form the key markers around which > >>> the narrative of victimhood and valor is woven.  Not surprisingly the Indian > >>> national days are designated as black days (including the day Indian army > >>> landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and blackout.  The narrative > >>> erases the moments of compromise and relative calm that Kashmiris have > >>> enjoyed in spurts in the intervening years giving rise to the educated, > >>> middle class which is spearheading the current separatist movement. > >>> > >>> Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns debates > >>> around these discourses emerging from respective camps.  Spokespersons, > >>> scholars, military think tanks and a significantly large number of literate > >>> and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized into the importance of each of these > >>> claims and possess ability to maneuver through controversies to establish > >>> their political claims.  The positions are entrenched and provide for little > >>> flexibility.  The dominant narratives have also found their way into the > >>> colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, humor, are expressed > >>> with reference to these moments.  To mention just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas > >>> yeeha balaay’  ‘Had not the forty-seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the > >>> year Indian Army landed in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. > >>> The expression is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at > >>> someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through > >>>  corruption. > >>> > >>> While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, > >>> overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like people anywhere > >>> else, the fact of being born in a territory, where the conflict around its > >>> disputed nature has raged to varying degrees for over the last sixty years, > >>> complicates and intensifies concern for some identities at the cost of > >>> others.  The political uncertainty impacts different members and groups > >>> differently as they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught > >>> from within and without.  To grossly simplify, for example a large majority > >>> of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied themselves with > >>> Indian right-wing parties.  Kashmiri Shia and Sunni Muslims largely identify > >>> with the broad contours of separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, > >>> Gujjars maintain an ambivalent position depending on where they are > >>> physically, located.  People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically > >>> isolated from > >>>  the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do not > >>> manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly do so for > >>> obvious reasons.  Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, people of Doda, > >>> Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu depending on which of their > >>> interests and identities are threatened at a particular moment of time. > >>>  People of Kargil gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist > >>> majority discriminates against them.  Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and > >>> Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged discrimination by > >>> Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the Indian state. > >>> > >>> Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, gender, > >>> region, religion and political orientation. These identities contract within > >>> and extend beyond the geographical boundaries of Kashmir in different > >>> situations and along different questions. Yet it is the collective > >>> experience of a shared geography, history, language, culture and meanings > >>> that make Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering > >>> others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri narrative > >>> presented above which at this moment has a favorable bias towards the > >>> masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends on where one is located > >>> within the crosscutting mesh of identities and experiences and intellectual > >>> trajectories. > >>> > >>> In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other identities, by > >>> race, religion and language. Physically, they do not look, sound or behave > >>> like stereotypical Indians and are often harassed and made to prove their > >>> nationality at the ticket counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside > >>> Kashmir, given the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the > >>> consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face  difficulty in > >>> finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim ghettos; receive snares > >>> and unwelcome comments while travelling; are easy prey for the security > >>> agencies seeking instant suspects for terror attacks; cannot stick their > >>> neck out too much in day-to-day struggles so as not to risk being falsely > >>> reported; cannot easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries > >>> (for being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with the > >>> word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly illegitimate.) > >>> > >>> Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for the > >>> majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods in Kashmir, > >>> Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who deserve to be eliminated or > >>> incarcerated or insulted on the flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for > >>> ready retribution in wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, > >>> vehicles stopped, people disembarked and detained any moment and without > >>> explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to shoot people > >>> as a preventive measure against possible future terror attacks. Public > >>> Safety Act provides for preventive custody without trial even before one > >>> engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. Men, women and children are susceptible > >>> to sexual assault and torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the > >>> above experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of the > >>> Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective marginalized identity. > >>> > >>> The militants against the security forces, and the consequent deaths of > >>> Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in crossfire, or killing of > >>> assumed or real Indian agents, the damage to personal properties, cultural > >>> and religious places, though used as firewood for Indian propaganda against > >>> the separatists, enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has > >>> also resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from > >>> anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious fundamentalists > >>> responsible and hate them for this reason. Still others have turned overly > >>> apologetic, servile and defensive. But curiously it has not resulted in > >>> increased love for India among many. > >>> > >>> The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance towards > >>> those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the dominant sense of > >>> victimhood or those who try to channelize their anger and energies > >>> differently. The identities which are in-between or fall outside the markers > >>> of dominant Kashmiri identity and victimhood are rendered invisible or > >>> sought to be assimilated or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in > >>> consonance with how radical identities often turn upon their own people who > >>> may choose divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. > >>> > >>> This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of development like > >>> poor representation in civil services, academics, armed forces; backwardness > >>> of the region in terms of industrial development, educational > >>> infrastructure; employment opportunities within and outside the state. It > >>> also draws from the narrative of regional discrimination establishing how > >>> India has favored development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. > >>> > >>> In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of > >>> funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or compromisers and > >>> punish those who tried deviate or rose in opposition to the centers > >>> hegemony. This practice continues. In the present times multinational > >>> private enterprise or funding cannot move in due to instability and > >>> disturbance. Irrespective of this the deals have been struck by the > >>> government with foreign companies for example, power projects, that are > >>> complete sell-outs helped by the fact that people are alienated from the > >>> state sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The > >>> stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Kashmiri Responses > >>> > >>> Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a test > >>> case to understand marginality and its directions among people argues that > >>> “the marginal person, having taken on elements of the dominant culture, is > >>> unable to return unchanged to his or her original group. Thus, the marginal > >>> person is caught in a structure of double ambivalence: unable either to > >>> leave or to return to the original group; unable either to merge with the > >>> new group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to this > >>> field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here termed > >>> assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” > >>> > >>> Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success pursued > >>> various directions in order to overcome their personal and collective sense > >>> of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four directions in which the > >>> marginalized react as suggested by Weisberger namely assimilation, return, > >>> transcendence, poise we can find parallels for each in different time > >>> periods, groups, institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as > >>> contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. Kashmiris have > >>> also produced a wide range of political, intellectual and strategic > >>> responses that range over categories like: separatists, autonomists, > >>> Islamists, secularist, loyalist, anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, > >>> apologist, radical, pacifist, self loathing and a myriad of other responses, > >>> many, still nascent and yet to be born.    (I have to develop this) > >>> > >>> One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh attempt > >>> to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill introduced in the > >>> Legislative assembly.  The bill seeks to over-rule the High Court decision > >>> against the provision that renders a woman non state subject if she marries > >>> a non-state-subject.  The same does not apply to men who marry outside. > >>>  Interestingly BJP and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have > >>> started protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, > >>> betraying support through the lack of outrage among various political > >>> groups.  The silence is symptomatic of the male patriarchal bias in the > >>> dominant discourse in Kashmir.  Not to say that BJP and its allies are by > >>> any means less patriarchal.  They possibly see the women’s matrimony as a > >>> means to extend their connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to > >>> increase their likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is > >>> assumed to be > >>>  more common among Hindus in Jammu. > >>> > >>> > >>> Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along > >>> communal and regional lines.  While the right wing Hindu formations fanned > >>> sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim > >>> separatists and mainstream regional parties saw the move as yet another > >>> attempt to change demography in Kashmir, since the shrine board included > >>> individuals who were non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the > >>> controversy provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Indian Responses > >>> > >>> The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, apathy or > >>> disdain.  Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent on or apathetic > >>> towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not share blood ties or see > >>> commonality of interest with Kashmiris.  Those who empathize, have their > >>> empathies conditioned by their location within the mainstream Indian > >>> politics.  Indian intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own > >>> respective projects rather than look at it from the point of view of > >>> Kashmiris and their history.  Similarly Indian Muslims and their > >>> sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect Kashmiris to > >>> behave in a manner that does not threaten the survival of Indian Muslims > >>> through a backlash, which would in turn harm the fragile secular polity. > >>>  The left sees it as a class problem or at best that of regional imbalance > >>> and because of false consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, > >>> unfit for class struggle and > >>>  revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the media > >>> with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as they see them > >>> as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties and are mostly terrorists > >>> and fanatics. > >>> > >>> The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their > >>> respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. Since > >>> funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, based in Delhi, they > >>> exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil society’ in its NGO avatar > >>> develops in Kashmir. The initiatives presently active in Kashmir have > >>> diverse ideological backgrounds.  If we count out the covert intelligence > >>> operations in the form of NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left > >>> leaning and feminists each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of > >>> fissuring of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy > >>> respectively.  While these fault-lines exist, to see them as detached from > >>> the nationality question does violence to Kashmir.  It would be like the > >>> British describing colonialism condition in India as male chauvinism or > >>> caste oppression. > >>> > >>> Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state towards a > >>> negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the seasonal olive-branch > >>> overtures by the State as Muslim appeasement, while at the same time > >>> cultivating a constituency among Pandits, and caste and class groups among > >>> Hindus in Jammu.  They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their > >>> Hinduvadi constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or > >>> through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. > >>> > >>> The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression through > >>> violent means.  The talks are offered and withdrawn often at the peril of > >>> those who come forward and end up being disowned by the community for the > >>> failure and embarrassment. > >>> > >>> There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir merely > >>> as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present ‘foreign hand’, > >>> that portrays all protest as political intrigue and at best a result of > >>> internal power struggle for control over resources. > >>> > >>> But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir over a > >>> longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of eternal return, > >>> of protests, repression, compromise, corruption and back to protests. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Encouragement of marginalities within > >>> > >>> Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri women > >>> and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male society which is > >>> assumed to be patriarchal and dominating.  In any discussion on Kashmir, the > >>> question, ‘but what about the women, the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, > >>> Dogras, Pandits?’ and so on invariably comes up.  The centre is able to > >>> subvert the mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the > >>> issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In turn the > >>> mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to suppress or ignore the > >>> discrimination within or around itself in response to this subversion.  In > >>> case of Kashmir, the demand for the right to self determination is hostage > >>> to the question of what happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, > >>> Hindus of Jammu and Buddhists of Ladakh.  On the other hand the dominant > >>> discourse around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed > >>>  other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various > >>> denominations at various other levels. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris > >>> > >>> The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ of the > >>> Indian Army in Kashmir.  It is followed by a legalistic discourse on the > >>> nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with the Indian union.  This > >>> discourse forms the backdrop against which the Kashmiris are examined and > >>> variously described: as being the symbols of Indian secularism for having > >>> willfully joined the Indian union inspite of their religious and > >>> geographical affinity with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and > >>> non-violent or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, > >>> duplicity and deceit. > >>> > >>> This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and provides a > >>> good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and denied autonomous > >>> self-definition and a dignified independent identity.  The only identities > >>> permissible to Kashmiris are the one that pass the litmus test of Indian > >>> ideals, the ideals which the Indians may themselves not have been able to > >>> uphold.  If the identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit > >>> within the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then > >>> these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the nation. > >>>  Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and only to the extent > >>> that it serves various political purposes and then left to deal with the > >>> schizophrenic condition on their own. > >>> > >>> Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by their > >>> tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the denial of self > >>> determination only as a milestones in their long struggle for emancipation, > >>> which began much earlier and continues till date.  Kashmiris subscribing to > >>> this narrative see themselves as de-facto and temporary citizens of India > >>> who have been subjugated against their will. > >>> > >>> While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into the > >>> discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their culture, they > >>> resent its use to make them into the essence of Indian ideal and react by > >>> adopting the exact opposite stereotype.  Simultaneously the emphasis on > >>> their affinities and continuities with regions that spread beyond the > >>> de-facto borders of the Indian state—that is the connection with Pakistan, > >>> Afghanistan, Central Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to > >>> establish their separateness. > >>> > >>> While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving the > >>> issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare enormous resources, > >>> for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is as urgent as dignity, certainty > >>> and security of their selves and yet they are left with no choice but to > >>> stake their all and as long as it takes to achieve it. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Self, Community and the Universe > >>> > >>> In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with myself.  I > >>> find myself marginalized from the community in which I was born because my > >>> natural intellectual and emotional trajectory pushed me to transcend my > >>> ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of and influences from the exposure to > >>> other cultures, communities and intellectual currents.  In the process I > >>> hope to evolve by contrasting these fragments and make something new out of > >>> them and thus constantly manage to recreate myself.  This I assume is a > >>> normal course of healthy life for me.  The process however distances me from > >>> my community in terms of my appearance, opinions as well as associations. > >>> > >>> But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to become > >>> too different from it in terms of my looks or my subjectivity, I would be > >>> perceived as a betrayer.  Apart from this, seeing the community under > >>> distress, I personally sense my own betrayal.  I get forced to identify with > >>> the community and represent it.  The struggle I am confronted with is how to > >>> retain the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the same > >>> time not abandon my community in distress.    The third commitment is to the > >>> universal whole, the affinity and commitment one feels towards the shared > >>> values and heritage of human community.   It is hard to negotiate commitment > >>> to self, community and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation > >>> is important since a sense of justice is at stake.  The luxury of being able > >>> to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the communal sense of > >>> victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its favour.  For example when the > >>>  outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my > >>> emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective Kashmiri > >>> identity becomes the focus of my attention. > >>> > >>> > >>> As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the same > >>> time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things.  But in this > >>> lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. > >>> > >>> > >>> Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple > >>> marginalities at the same time.  Some marginalities I embody, like Muslim, > >>> South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, caste, rural, > >>> disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them.  I cannot have my > >>> concerns limited to myself and my community since my own victimhood shapes > >>> my identification with other marginalities. But how exactly does one locate > >>> oneself with respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one > >>> negotiate between strategy and idealism?  When do I remain silent about a > >>> particular marginality to privilege the other?  When do I maintain strategic > >>> silence about other marginalities to keep certain marginality in focus?  How > >>> does one combine these simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular > >>> marginality does not acquire fascistic proportions? > >>> > >>> > >>> This negotiation has to take place in the context where differential > >>> importance is given to marginalities by the state or dominant interests in > >>> order to subvert, fragment and hijack marginalities. One marginality is > >>> played up against the other. Demands are counter posed—something more > >>> general or ephemeral like ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like > >>> ‘bijli-sadak-pani’.  It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to > >>> vane them off the other.  The choice offered is often between dignity and > >>> basic amenities of life. > >>> > >>> > >>> Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality.  The > >>> more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a marginalized > >>> community.  This triggers one-upmanship within the marginalized group in the > >>> race to lay claim as real representatives of the marginality. One has to > >>> arrive at a position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a > >>> radical rant. > >>> > >>> In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of > >>> marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with other > >>> marginalities without, the process of emancipation of different > >>> marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is need for an ongoing > >>> dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of claims of marginality and to > >>> resolve conflict of interest and issues of justice in the context of > >>> different marginalities working together.  There is need for democracy > >>> within the alliances of marginalities.  For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be > >>> redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and substantive > >>> emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that constitute it or risk being > >>> fragmented or reduced to yet another chauvinistic movement.   It is only > >>> this rigorous self definition that will facilitate principled alliances with > >>> other movements and conceptions of marginality. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> [1]  Presented  at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of Sociology, > >>>  on March 25-26th 2010 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats and > >>> three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> [3]  Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger Source: > >>> Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. 425-446 Published by: > >>> Springer > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sun Sep 12 03:50:10 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON In-Reply-To: <001201cb5166$f4d1b810$de752830$@in> Message-ID: <663344.9106.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Interestingly the first ancestor of mine who converted to Islam some six generations before was named Ganesh Kaul. So I have a special sense of identification with this word. Some of my South Indian friends with whom i have shared my ancestry and stories about it, send me Ganesha cards on the occasion! Some Ganesha cards used to arrive even on my birthdays, before Internet took over ;) May you prosper and have a happy festival! Gowhar Fazili --- On Sat, 9/11/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > From: Bipin Trivedi > Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > To: "sarai-list" > Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 9:38 AM > SHREE GANESHAY NAMAH - HAPPY GANESH > CHATURTHI > > > > EID MUBARAK TO ALL MUSLIM BROTHERS > > > > MITCHHAMI DUKADAM TO ALL JAIN BROTHERS - HAPPY SANVATSARY > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Sep 13 00:52:51 2010 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:22:51 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. In-Reply-To: <42F6262B-A7EE-43AD-99E9-B10DB25C4030@sarai.net> References: <13208.34615.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, , , <42F6262B-A7EE-43AD-99E9-B10DB25C4030@sarai.net> Message-ID: Who is this 'Kashmiri' whose marginality is being talked about...........?? ?...... " .........While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like people anywhere else, the fact of being born in a territory, where the conflict around its disputed nature has raged to varying degrees for over the last sixty years, complicates and intensifies concern for some identities at the cost of others. The political uncertainty impacts different members and groups differently as they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught from within and without. To grossly simplify, for example a large majority of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied themselves with Indian right-wing parties.Kashmiri Shia and Sunni Muslims largely identify with the broad contours of separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, Gujjars maintain an ambivalent position depending on where they are physically, located. People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically isolated from the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do not manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly do so for obvious reasons. Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, people of Doda, Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu depending on which of their interests and identities are threatened at a particular moment of time. People of Kargil gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist majority discriminates against them. Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged discrimination by Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the Indian state........" Kashmir Pandits have not just 'moved out of kashmir',they were subjected to systematic ethnic cleansing by the kashmiri pan Islamists because they professed a different faith & that they were seen symbolising Indian presence in the valley. Club them now in their exile with the so called right wing parties & damn them.It very well suits suits the self acclaimed liberal civil society not to question the crimes commited against humanity by the 'azadi' seekers. Their mass murder through almost daily bombings by Sunni terror groups in Pakistan that provides 'moral & diplomatic' support ( including AK-47s,mercenaries,funds .....as freebiees...) to wahabism driven kashmiri pan islamists, is no inspiration for Shias to be part of the 'separatist politics'. Shia ghettoisation with in kashmir valley is no secret. Gujjars do not identify themselves with the proponents of 'azadi -bara -e -Islam' ( freedom through Islam).Pan north India Gujjar brotherhood is well known.A Kashmiri Gujjar fought elections from Rajasthan recently. There have been repeated attempts by the kashmiri pan islamists to spread their tentacles in Jammu region, but the people of Doda, Punch and Rajori have always spurned the moves. People of Jammu region including those from the Hindu majority areas are demanding abbrogation of article 370 to ensure complete integration with the Indian Union. People of Kargil have never supported Kashmiri pan islamists seeking scession from India.A Union Territory status for Ladhakh has been a long standing demand of the region including the Buddhist Leh. A bunch of lies, however well contrived can not change the ground realities, prompt appreciation from the expected 'quarters' on this forum not withstanding (how else would propganda perpetuate,otherwise..???..). Rgds all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: shuddha at sarai.net > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 00:19:32 +0530 > To: kaksanjay at gmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response. > > Dear Gowhar, > > Let me add to Sanjay's comment. I will write a more detailed response > later. Right now a bit snowed under. But I especially appreciate the > honesty with which you come across with your own doubts and questions > about the construction of identity. Especially the tension between > the self-awareness of being the member of a minority in one sense, > and the majority in another. I have always thought of the question of > identity as having a fluidity, an almost tactile and subtle > slipperiness that congeals into something grim and viscous the moment > one tries to define oneself. > > The multitudes that each of us contain, and the currents that flow > through us, cannot ever be adequately represented by a single name, > regardless of whether that name points to an ethnic, or a national, > or a religious or any other kind of affiliation. > > That is why, ultimately, all forms of identity based politics, > regardless of origins, regardless of destinations, visit the very > people they claim as their subjects, in the form of persistent > nightmares of loyalty and treason. > That said, it cannot be denied that one inhabits an identitiy if one > is made to wear it like a prison uniform or an armour. To ignore the > presence of identity in such a context would be to ignore the reality > of incarceration. The question is, how does one know that the prison > uniform is something one can choose to cease to wear, when one is > released. > > looking forward to more discussion on this, > > best, > > Shuddha > > On 10-Sep-10, at 7:38 PM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > > Dear Gowhar > > > > Thank you for sketching out a very deft, thoughtful and nuanced > > account of Kashmiri marginality. I hope that as the colours and > > details are filled in this will turn into a substantial contribution > > to the discourse on Kashmir. > > > > Do please keep us all posted > > > > Warmest Eid greetings too! > > > > Sanjay Kak > > > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:25 AM, gowhar fazli > > wrote: > >> This work in progress, that tries to straddle wide swathes of > >> political difference would benefit from your engaged responses. > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> Gowhar Fazili > >> > >> > >> Kashmiri Marginalities: The Construction, Nature and Response[1] > >> by Gowhar Fazili on Monday, 06 September 2010 at 10:01 > >> > >> By Gowhar Fazili > >> > >> > >> To start the argument, we can club the dominant discourses around > >> Kashmir into three broad categories, i.e., the Indian, the > >> Pakistani and the Kashmiri discourses. While the Indian and > >> Pakistani discourses (as detailed below), accommodate Kashmiri > >> people and the history of their collective struggles only if, and > >> when, these buttress their respective positions, the Kashmiri > >> discourse is quintessentially about these struggles. In turn the > >> dominant Kashmiri discourse simplifies the sub-struggles and > >> fragmented politics that exists within, and the connections these > >> have with the outside world. > >> > >> These dominant discourses of political history are a quagmire of > >> claims and counter claims. For those who have not borne the > >> immediate brunt of the conflict these generate excitement and > >> passion, and the discourse is consumed through various media like > >> an IPL cricket match. The Indian state and the nationalists of > >> various hues, including Hindutva, Leftist, Liberal, Secularists, > >> unanimously deploy various moments of Kashmir’s history, including > >> the accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh, the elections held, > >> the wars won, the leaders bought over, the subsidies given, the > >> development achieved, investments made, etc., as indicators of > >> Indian legitimacy and control in Kashmir. Kashmiri alienation, > >> and separatist movements figure in this narrative, if at all, > >> variously, as consequences of external interference, uneven > >> development, appeasement, result of one-off political mistakes > >> made by previous leaders, etc., which are to be corrected in due > >> course > >> when the Indian democracy matures and so on. This discourse > >> denies Kashmiris any intelligence or capability for autonomous > >> political behavior. It betrays amnesia around the rich history of > >> struggles in Kashmir that preceded accession in 1947 that still > >> continue to inspire Kashmir. > >> > >> The Pakistani discourse emphasizes the ‘Muslim connection’ and > >> dwells on the disputed nature of Jammu and Kashmir which should > >> have been theirs by the logic of partition. It focuses on the > >> denial of self-determination to the people and disregard of the UN > >> resolutions, calling for plebiscite in the region. It recounts > >> the valor with which Azad Kashmir was won, and in their view the > >> continued support and affinity that the majority of Kashmiri > >> Muslims feel towards Pakistan. Though Pakistan lends moral and > >> diplomatic support to the current separatist movement in Kashmir, > >> it devalues the nuanced engagement and negotiation Kashmiris have > >> had with the Indian state over the last sixty years, largely > >> independent of Pakistan. > >> > >> The dominant Kashmiri narrative which is at a marginalized > >> position with respect to the other two discourses imagines itself > >> to be at the centre of the current political struggle. It draws > >> from a long history of marginalization that predates modernity, > >> tracing back Kashmiri dislike and resistance against foreign > >> occupation to the Mughal invasion in 1588 and the subsequent > >> progressive emasculation and dispossession of Kashmiris by the > >> Afghan, the Sikh, the Dogra, and in the same league, the Indian > >> regime. It leverages dates like 16th March 1846 (Amritsar > >> Treaty), when Kashmir was sold by the British to Maharaja Gulab > >> Singh for Seventy- five Lakh Nanakshahi rupees[2], the excessive > >> taxation to recover this money that followed, leading to the > >> famine of 1977-79 in which a large number of Kashmiris died; the > >> systematic denial of basic rights and dignity and discrimination > >> on the basis of religion and region under the Dogra regime; the > >> 13th July 1931 > >> Uprising against the Maharaja and the massacre that followed; the > >> year 1953 when Sheikh Abdullah, the first democratically elected > >> Prime-Minister of Kashmir was deposed and imprisoned by India on > >> charges of conspiracy and sedition, arresting along with him the > >> socio-economic revolution that was underway. It presumes the > >> subsequent elections while Sheikh was in custody for twenty years > >> to have been rigged and the period to have been marked with > >> extreme suppression, corruption and cooption. It sees changes > >> made over the years to extend provisions of Indian constitution in > >> an attempt to bring Kashmir closer to the Indian union, as > >> bulldozing of the residual safeguards against assimilation. It > >> cites failure of India to make progress on the various agreements > >> and accords, calling for plebiscite, restoration of autonomy, > >> etc., as illustrations of India’s ‘Chanakya Neeti’ (deceitful > >> policy.) > >> > >> The significant moments in recent history, like the 1984 hanging > >> of the JKLF leader, Maqbool Bhat, the rigging of 1987 elections, > >> the mass uprising for Azadi, and the repression that began in 1989 > >> when Kashmiri youth took to arms against the Indian state, and > >> such, form the key markers around which the narrative of > >> victimhood and valor is woven. Not surprisingly the Indian > >> national days are designated as black days (including the day > >> Indian army landed in Kashmir) and are marked with protest and > >> blackout. The narrative erases the moments of compromise and > >> relative calm that Kashmiris have enjoyed in spurts in the > >> intervening years giving rise to the educated, middle class which > >> is spearheading the current separatist movement. > >> > >> Much of the writing on Kashmir prior to the year 2000 concerns > >> debates around these discourses emerging from respective camps. > >> Spokespersons, scholars, military think tanks and a significantly > >> large number of literate and illiterate Kashmiris are socialized > >> into the importance of each of these claims and possess ability to > >> maneuver through controversies to establish their political > >> claims. The positions are entrenched and provide for little > >> flexibility. The dominant narratives have also found their way > >> into the colloquial language and often, abuses, frustrations, > >> humor, are expressed with reference to these moments. To mention > >> just one, ‘ye nai Sattejihas yeeha balaay’ ‘Had not the forty- > >> seven been accursed’, refers to 1947, the year Indian Army landed > >> in Kashmir and the Maharaja signed that accession. The expression > >> is used to let out everyday frustration or to poke fun at > >> someone’s undue claims or some unworthy person’s rise through > >> corruption. > >> > >> While the Kashmiri Self is torn between commitments to multiple, > >> overlapping and contradictory identities and interests, like > >> people anywhere else, the fact of being born in a territory, where > >> the conflict around its disputed nature has raged to varying > >> degrees for over the last sixty years, complicates and intensifies > >> concern for some identities at the cost of others. The political > >> uncertainty impacts different members and groups differently as > >> they choose different strategies to deal with the onslaught from > >> within and without. To grossly simplify, for example a large > >> majority of Pandits have moved out of Kashmir and many have allied > >> themselves with Indian right-wing parties. Kashmiri Shia and > >> Sunni Muslims largely identify with the broad contours of > >> separatist politics, Pashtoons are invisible, Gujjars maintain an > >> ambivalent position depending on where they are physically, > >> located. People in Gurez, Karnah, Uri, who are geographically > >> isolated from > >> the valley and live in close proximity with security garrisons do > >> not manifest sympathy with separatism, or at least do not overtly > >> do so for obvious reasons. Within the state of Jammu and Kashmir, > >> people of Doda, Punch and Rajori ally with Kashmir or Jammu > >> depending on which of their interests and identities are > >> threatened at a particular moment of time. People of Kargil > >> gravitate towards Kashmir if and when the Buddhist majority > >> discriminates against them. Hindu majority areas of Jammu, and > >> Buddhist Leh, have consistently favored India and alleged > >> discrimination by Kashmiri Muslims and their appeasement by the > >> Indian state. > >> > >> Kashmiri society is variegated along caste, class, community, > >> gender, region, religion and political orientation. These > >> identities contract within and extend beyond the geographical > >> boundaries of Kashmir in different situations and along different > >> questions. Yet it is the collective experience of a shared > >> geography, history, language, culture and meanings that make > >> Kashmiris conversant with each other in a special way, rendering > >> others as outside. The identification with the dominant Kashmiri > >> narrative presented above which at this moment has a favorable > >> bias towards the masculine, Muslim majoritarian identity, depends > >> on where one is located within the crosscutting mesh of identities > >> and experiences and intellectual trajectories. > >> > >> In India, Kashmiris are marked irrespective of their other > >> identities, by race, religion and language. Physically, they do > >> not look, sound or behave like stereotypical Indians and are often > >> harassed and made to prove their nationality at the ticket > >> counters or wherever nationality applies. Outside Kashmir, given > >> the context of the twenty years of armed conflict, and the > >> consequent stereotyping of Kashmiris as terrorists, they face > >> difficulty in finding accommodation, are forced to inhabit Muslim > >> ghettos; receive snares and unwelcome comments while travelling; > >> are easy prey for the security agencies seeking instant suspects > >> for terror attacks; cannot stick their neck out too much in day-to- > >> day struggles so as not to risk being falsely reported; cannot > >> easily get visas to ‘civilized’ aka non-Muslim countries (for > >> being a Muslim is bad enough, but being a Kashmiri Muslim, with > >> the word ‘Kashmir’ on their passports, makes them doubly > >> illegitimate.) > >> > >> Since Social Sciences do not form part of military curriculum, for > >> the majority of over six lakh armed forces dotting neighbourhoods > >> in Kashmir, Kashmiris are potential Pakistani terrorists who > >> deserve to be eliminated or incarcerated or insulted on the > >> flimsiest excuse. Kashmiris are targets for ready retribution in > >> wake of militant attacks. Homes can be searched, vehicles stopped, > >> people disembarked and detained any moment and without > >> explanation. The laws like AFSPA permit the security forces to > >> shoot people as a preventive measure against possible future > >> terror attacks. Public Safety Act provides for preventive custody > >> without trial even before one engages in ‘objectionable’ activity. > >> Men, women and children are susceptible to sexual assault and > >> torture and other forms of humiliation. Since the above > >> experiences do not vary significantly among different segments of > >> the Kashmiri population, they reinforce the collective > >> marginalized identity. > >> > >> The militants against the security forces, and the consequent > >> deaths of Kashmiris in the conflict caused by militants or in > >> crossfire, or killing of assumed or real Indian agents, the damage > >> to personal properties, cultural and religious places, though used > >> as firewood for Indian propaganda against the separatists, > >> enhances the collective sense of victimhood. In some it has also > >> resulted in abhorrence for all forms of violence emanating from > >> anywhere. Others hold Pakistan or foreigners or religious > >> fundamentalists responsible and hate them for this reason. Still > >> others have turned overly apologetic, servile and defensive. But > >> curiously it has not resulted in increased love for India among many. > >> > >> The violence in the society has also resulted in intolerance > >> towards those who for various reasons do not subscribe to the > >> dominant sense of victimhood or those who try to channelize their > >> anger and energies differently. The identities which are in- > >> between or fall outside the markers of dominant Kashmiri identity > >> and victimhood are rendered invisible or sought to be assimilated > >> or in extreme cases eliminated. This is in consonance with how > >> radical identities often turn upon their own people who may choose > >> divergent strategies or cannot fit within their grand project. > >> > >> This dominant narrative is augmented with the indices of > >> development like poor representation in civil services, academics, > >> armed forces; backwardness of the region in terms of industrial > >> development, educational infrastructure; employment opportunities > >> within and outside the state. It also draws from the narrative of > >> regional discrimination establishing how India has favored > >> development in Jammu and Ladakh at the cost of Kashmir. > >> > >> In the Pre-globalization era, the center being the only source of > >> funding, would offer financial packages to loyalist or > >> compromisers and punish those who tried deviate or rose in > >> opposition to the centers hegemony. This practice continues. In > >> the present times multinational private enterprise or funding > >> cannot move in due to instability and disturbance. Irrespective of > >> this the deals have been struck by the government with foreign > >> companies for example, power projects, that are complete sell-outs > >> helped by the fact that people are alienated from the state > >> sponsored politics and too busy fighting the separatist cause. The > >> stunted development willful or incidental adds to alienation. > >> > >> > >> > >> Kashmiri Responses > >> > >> Adam Weisberger[3] using the German Jewry of Wilhelmine era as a > >> test case to understand marginality and its directions among > >> people argues that “the marginal person, having taken on elements > >> of the dominant culture, is unable to return unchanged to his or > >> her original group. Thus, the marginal person is caught in a > >> structure of double ambivalence: unable either to leave or to > >> return to the original group; unable either to merge with the new > >> group or to slough it off. Marginal persons typically react to > >> this field of cross-cutting pressures in four directions, here > >> termed assimilation, return, poise, and transcendence.” > >> > >> Kashmiris through history have to varying degrees of success > >> pursued various directions in order to overcome their personal and > >> collective sense of marginality. If we were to coalesce the four > >> directions in which the marginalized react as suggested by > >> Weisberger namely assimilation, return, transcendence, poise we > >> can find parallels for each in different time periods, groups, > >> institutions, individuals or simultaneously present as > >> contradictory tendencies in a single entity or individual. > >> Kashmiris have also produced a wide range of political, > >> intellectual and strategic responses that range over categories > >> like: separatists, autonomists, Islamists, secularist, loyalist, > >> anarchist, humanist, spiritualist, apologist, radical, pacifist, > >> self loathing and a myriad of other responses, many, still nascent > >> and yet to be born. (I have to develop this) > >> > >> One of the latest debates raging at the moment is around a fresh > >> attempt to pass the Permanent Residents (Disqualification) Bill > >> introduced in the Legislative assembly. The bill seeks to over- > >> rule the High Court decision against the provision that renders a > >> woman non state subject if she marries a non-state-subject. The > >> same does not apply to men who marry outside. Interestingly BJP > >> and other right of centre Jammu-based parties have started > >> protesting against the bill, while the valley maintains a silence, > >> betraying support through the lack of outrage among various > >> political groups. The silence is symptomatic of the male > >> patriarchal bias in the dominant discourse in Kashmir. Not to say > >> that BJP and its allies are by any means less patriarchal. They > >> possibly see the women’s matrimony as a means to extend their > >> connection with the Indian Hindu mainstream or to increase their > >> likely voters in Jammu since marriage outside Kashmir is assumed > >> to be > >> more common among Hindus in Jammu. > >> > >> > >> Amarnath Land Transfer issue in 2008 once again fissured J&K along > >> communal and regional lines. While the right wing Hindu > >> formations fanned sentiments in Jammu against the revocation of > >> land transfer, Kashmiri Muslim separatists and mainstream regional > >> parties saw the move as yet another attempt to change demography > >> in Kashmir, since the shrine board included individuals who were > >> non-state-subjects. For the awaam of Kashmir, the controversy > >> provided yet another charged issue to vent their separatism. > >> > >> > >> > >> Indian Responses > >> > >> The Indian civil society has looked at Kashmir with empathy, > >> apathy or disdain. Largely the Indian mainstream has been silent > >> on or apathetic towards Kashmiri suffering, because they do not > >> share blood ties or see commonality of interest with Kashmiris. > >> Those who empathize, have their empathies conditioned by their > >> location within the mainstream Indian politics. Indian > >> intellectuals have tried to read Kashmir into their own respective > >> projects rather than look at it from the point of view of > >> Kashmiris and their history. Similarly Indian Muslims and their > >> sympathizers look at Kashmir as a minority problem and expect > >> Kashmiris to behave in a manner that does not threaten the > >> survival of Indian Muslims through a backlash, which would in turn > >> harm the fragile secular polity. The left sees it as a class > >> problem or at best that of regional imbalance and because of false > >> consciousness and undifferentiated class structure, unfit for > >> class struggle and > >> revolution. Large majorities in India, under the influence of the > >> media with its nationalist bias, look at Kashmiris with disdain as > >> they see them as anti-nationals who share cross border loyalties > >> and are mostly terrorists and fanatics. > >> > >> The civil society groups have tried to identify or create their > >> respective constituencies by promoting various sub-marginalities. > >> Since funding to NGO’s is channeled through the Indian elite, > >> based in Delhi, they exercise substantial influence on how ‘civil > >> society’ in its NGO avatar develops in Kashmir. The initiatives > >> presently active in Kashmir have diverse ideological backgrounds. > >> If we count out the covert intelligence operations in the form of > >> NGOs, to site just three the Gandhian, left leaning and feminists > >> each sees the central problem in Kashmir to be that of fissuring > >> of the community due to violence, feudalism and/or patriarchy > >> respectively. While these fault-lines exist, to see them as > >> detached from the nationality question does violence to Kashmir. > >> It would be like the British describing colonialism condition in > >> India as male chauvinism or caste oppression. > >> > >> Right wing nationalists block any positive moves by the state > >> towards a negotiated solution or reconciliation by branding the > >> seasonal olive-branch overtures by the State as Muslim > >> appeasement, while at the same time cultivating a constituency > >> among Pandits, and caste and class groups among Hindus in Jammu. > >> They also use Kashmir as a spectacle to shore up their Hinduvadi > >> constituency in India by calling for abrogation of article 370 or > >> through flag hoisting missions in Lal Chowk and such. > >> > >> The state, since 1989 has largely responded with repression > >> through violent means. The talks are offered and withdrawn often > >> at the peril of those who come forward and end up being disowned > >> by the community for the failure and embarrassment. > >> > >> There is also an unceasing ideological onslaught that sees Kashmir > >> merely as a problem of development exacerbated by the ever present > >> ‘foreign hand’, that portrays all protest as political intrigue > >> and at best a result of internal power struggle for control over > >> resources. > >> > >> But if one were to follow the dialectics of politics in Kashmir > >> over a longer period, it follows predictable, Sisyphean cycles of > >> eternal return, of protests, repression, compromise, corruption > >> and back to protests. > >> > >> > >> > >> Encouragement of marginalities within > >> > >> Indian state and civil society often intervenes to rescue Kashmiri > >> women and other marginalized groups from the Kashmiri Muslim male > >> society which is assumed to be patriarchal and dominating. In any > >> discussion on Kashmir, the question, ‘but what about the women, > >> the Gujjars, Pahadis, Shias, Buddhists, Dogras, Pandits?’ and so > >> on invariably comes up. The centre is able to subvert the > >> mobilization around a particular marginality, by bringing up the > >> issue of marginalities within and around the claimant group. In > >> turn the mobilization around the dominant discourse tries to > >> suppress or ignore the discrimination within or around itself in > >> response to this subversion. In case of Kashmir, the demand for > >> the right to self determination is hostage to the question of what > >> happens to the women, shias, Gujjars, Pandits, Hindus of Jammu and > >> Buddhists of Ladakh. On the other hand the dominant discourse > >> around unresolved nature of Jammu and Kashmir has subsumed > >> other effective marginalities experienced by Kashmiris of various > >> denominations at various other levels. > >> > >> > >> > >> Ambivalent nature of Kashmiris > >> > >> The narrative of Indian nationalism is fuelled by the ‘adventures’ > >> of the Indian Army in Kashmir. It is followed by a legalistic > >> discourse on the nature and tenability of Kashmir’s accession with > >> the Indian union. This discourse forms the backdrop against which > >> the Kashmiris are examined and variously described: as being the > >> symbols of Indian secularism for having willfully joined the > >> Indian union inspite of their religious and geographical affinity > >> with Pakistan; as being primordially secular, Sufi and non-violent > >> or being treacherous people capable of cross border allegiance, > >> duplicity and deceit. > >> > >> This problematic status makes them unfit for democracy and > >> provides a good reason why Kashmiris need to be mainstreamed and > >> denied autonomous self-definition and a dignified independent > >> identity. The only identities permissible to Kashmiris are the > >> one that pass the litmus test of Indian ideals, the ideals which > >> the Indians may themselves not have been able to uphold. If the > >> identity proclaimed or exhibited by Kashmiris does not fit within > >> the standards offered to other regional minorities in India, then > >> these have to be shorn off in the interest of the unity of the > >> nation. Kashmiri’s are defined partially, in a defused form and > >> only to the extent that it serves various political purposes and > >> then left to deal with the schizophrenic condition on their own. > >> > >> Kashmiri counter narrative sees the illegal accession signed by > >> their tormentor, Maharaja Hari Singh on their behalf and the > >> denial of self determination only as a milestones in their long > >> struggle for emancipation, which began much earlier and continues > >> till date. Kashmiris subscribing to this narrative see themselves > >> as de-facto and temporary citizens of India who have been > >> subjugated against their will. > >> > >> While Kashmiris at different stages in history have bought into > >> the discourse about the secular, peaceful, compositeness of their > >> culture, they resent its use to make them into the essence of > >> Indian ideal and react by adopting the exact opposite stereotype. > >> Simultaneously the emphasis on their affinities and continuities > >> with regions that spread beyond the de-facto borders of the Indian > >> state—that is the connection with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central > >> Asia, Persia and beyond—provide them a lever to establish their > >> separateness. > >> > >> While the Indian’s are in no hurry to make progress in resolving > >> the issue of Kashmir and can afford all the time and spare > >> enormous resources, for Kashmiri’s nothing matters as much or is > >> as urgent as dignity, certainty and security of their selves and > >> yet they are left with no choice but to stake their all and as > >> long as it takes to achieve it. > >> > >> > >> > >> Self, Community and the Universe > >> > >> In order to engage with the Kashmiri self I will begin with > >> myself. I find myself marginalized from the community in which I > >> was born because my natural intellectual and emotional trajectory > >> pushed me to transcend my ‘received self’ by imbibing fragments of > >> and influences from the exposure to other cultures, communities > >> and intellectual currents. In the process I hope to evolve by > >> contrasting these fragments and make something new out of them and > >> thus constantly manage to recreate myself. This I assume is a > >> normal course of healthy life for me. The process however > >> distances me from my community in terms of my appearance, opinions > >> as well as associations. > >> > >> But since the community I come from is marginalized, if I were to > >> become too different from it in terms of my looks or my > >> subjectivity, I would be perceived as a betrayer. Apart from > >> this, seeing the community under distress, I personally sense my > >> own betrayal. I get forced to identify with the community and > >> represent it. The struggle I am confronted with is how to retain > >> the individual self and maintain its natural growth while at the > >> same time not abandon my community in distress. The third > >> commitment is to the universal whole, the affinity and commitment > >> one feels towards the shared values and heritage of human > >> community. It is hard to negotiate commitment to self, community > >> and universe, all at the same time yet this negotiation is > >> important since a sense of justice is at stake. The luxury of > >> being able to accord justice to all becomes difficult as the > >> communal sense of victimhood alters ones subjectivity in its > >> favour. For example when the > >> outsiders perceive and treat Kashmiris unfavorably, it reduces my > >> emphasis on other identities within Kashmir and the collective > >> Kashmiri identity becomes the focus of my attention. > >> > >> > >> As long as one is able to keep oneself outside and inside at the > >> same time, one might be able to maintain a fairer view of things. > >> But in this lies the danger of blunting ones outrage and protest. > >> > >> > >> Normally one does, and should be able to identify with multiple > >> marginalities at the same time. Some marginalities I embody, like > >> Muslim, South Asian and Kashmiri. Others I may not, like gender, > >> caste, rural, disabled, and yet am I able to identify with them. > >> I cannot have my concerns limited to myself and my community since > >> my own victimhood shapes my identification with other > >> marginalities. But how exactly does one locate oneself with > >> respect to other marginalities in a real politics? How does one > >> negotiate between strategy and idealism? When do I remain silent > >> about a particular marginality to privilege the other? When do I > >> maintain strategic silence about other marginalities to keep > >> certain marginality in focus? How does one combine these > >> simultaneous movements to ensure that a particular marginality > >> does not acquire fascistic proportions? > >> > >> > >> This negotiation has to take place in the context where > >> differential importance is given to marginalities by the state or > >> dominant interests in order to subvert, fragment and hijack > >> marginalities. One marginality is played up against the other. > >> Demands are counter posed—something more general or ephemeral like > >> ‘azadi’ against something more concrete like ‘bijli-sadak-pani’. > >> It is like dangling one before the deprived in order to vane them > >> off the other. The choice offered is often between dignity and > >> basic amenities of life. > >> > >> > >> Symbolic activity can hijack the real issues around marginality. > >> The more radical I sound the more legitimate my voice becomes in a > >> marginalized community. This triggers one-upmanship within the > >> marginalized group in the race to lay claim as real > >> representatives of the marginality. One has to arrive at a > >> position between compromising oneself and being reduced to a > >> radical rant. > >> > >> In order to make the larger sense of marginality composite of > >> marginalities within and a principled and strategic alliance with > >> other marginalities without, the process of emancipation of > >> different marginalities has to happen simultaneously. There is > >> need for an ongoing dialogue to negotiate the genuineness of > >> claims of marginality and to resolve conflict of interest and > >> issues of justice in the context of different marginalities > >> working together. There is need for democracy within the > >> alliances of marginalities. For Kashmir ‘Azadi’ has to be > >> redefined in terms of and achieved through the notional and > >> substantive emancipation of all the sub-marginalities that > >> constitute it or risk being fragmented or reduced to yet another > >> chauvinistic movement. It is only this rigorous self definition > >> that will facilitate principled alliances with other movements and > >> conceptions of marginality. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> [1] Presented at the Marginalities Workshop, Department of > >> Sociology, on March 25-26th 2010 > >> > >> > >> > >> [2] And amusingly in addition to this six pairs of pashmina goats > >> and three pairs of Kashmiri shawls annually! > >> > >> > >> > >> [3] Marginality and Its Directions Author(s): Adam Weisberger > >> Source: Sociological Forum, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), pp. > >> 425-446 Published by: Springer > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 03:51:17 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:51:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: World War III Message-ID: FORWARDED MESSAGE ______________________________ Michel Chossudovsky: Towards a World War III Scenario? The Role of Israel in Triggering an Attack on Iran Towards a World War III Scenario? The Role of Israel in Triggering an Attack on Iran Part II The Military Road Map By Michel Chossudovsky URL of this article: www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20584 Global Research, August 13, 2010 To consult Part I of this essay click below Preparing for World War III, Targeting Iran Part I: Global Warfare - by Michel Chossudovsky - 2010-08-01 The stockpiling and deployment of advanced weapons systems directed against Iran started in the immediate wake of the 2003 bombing and invasion of Iraq. From the outset, these war plans were led by the US, in liaison with NATO and Israel. Following the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration identified Iran and Syria as the next stage of “the road map to war”. US military sources intimated that an aerial attack on Iran could involve a large scale deployment comparable to the US "shock and awe" bombing raids on Iraq in March 2003: "American air strikes on Iran would vastly exceed the scope of the 1981 Israeli attack on the Osiraq nuclear center in Iraq, and would more resemble the opening days of the 2003 air campaign against Iraq.(See Globalsecurity ) "Theater Iran Near Term" Code named by US military planners as TIRANNT, "Theater Iran Near Term", simulations of an attack on Iran were initiated in May 2003 "when modelers and intelligence specialists pulled together the data needed for theater-level (meaning large-scale) scenario analysis for Iran." ( (William Arkin, Washington Post, 16 April 2006). The scenarios identified several thousand targets inside Iran as part of a "Shock and Awe" Blitzkrieg: "The analysis, called TIRANNT, for "Theater Iran Near Term," was coupled with a mock scenario for a Marine Corps invasion and a simulation of the Iranian missile force. U.S. and British planners conducted a Caspian Sea war game around the same time. And Bush directed the U.S. Strategic Command to draw up a global strike war plan for an attack against Iranian weapons of mass destruction. All of this will ultimately feed into a new war plan for "major combat operations" against Iran that military sources confirm now [April 2006] exists in draft form. ... Under TIRANNT, Army and U.S. Central Command planners have been examining both near-term and out-year scenarios for war with Iran, including all aspects of a major combat operation, from mobilization and deployment of forces through postwar stability operations after regime change." (William Arkin, Washington Post, 16 April 2006) Different "theater scenarios" for an all out attack on Iran had been contemplated: "The US army, navy, air force and marines have all prepared battle plans and spent four years building bases and training for "Operation Iranian Freedom". Admiral Fallon, the new head of US Central Command, has inherited computerized plans under the name TIRANNT (Theatre Iran Near Term)." (New Statesman, February 19, 2007) In 2004, drawing upon the initial war scenarios under TIRANNT, Vice President Dick Cheney instructed USSTRATCOM to draw up a "contingency plan" of a large scale military operation directed against Iran "to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States" on the presumption that the government in Tehran would be behind the terrorist plot. The plan included the pre-emptive use of nuclear weapons against a non-nuclear state: "The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections." (Philip Giraldi, Deep Background,The American Conservative August 2005) The Military Road Map: "First Iraq, then Iran" The decision to target Iran under TIRANNT was part of the broader process of military planning and sequencing of military operations. Already under the Clinton administration, US Central Command (USCENTCOM) had formulated "in war theater plans" to invade first Iraq and then Iran. Access to Middle East oil was the stated strategic objective: "The broad national security interests and objectives expressed in the President's National Security Strategy (NSS) and the Chairman's National Military Strategy (NMS) form the foundation of the United States Central Command's theater strategy. The NSS directs implementation of a strategy of dual containment of the rogue states of Iraq and Iran as long as those states pose a threat to U.S. interests, to other states in the region, and to their own citizens. Dual containment is designed to maintain the balance of power in the region without depending on either Iraq or Iran. USCENTCOM's theater strategy is interest-based and threat-focused. The purpose of U.S. engagement, as espoused in the NSS, is to protect the United States' vital interest in the region - uninterrupted, secure U.S./Allied access to Gulf oil." (USCENTCOM, http://www.milnet.com/milnet/pentagon/centcom/chap1/stratgic.htm#USPolicy, link no longer active, archived at http://tinyurl.com/37gafu9) The war on Iran was viewed as part of a succession of military operations. According to (former) NATO Commander General Wesley Clark, the Pentagon's military road-map consisted of a sequence of countries: "[The] Five-year campaign plan [includes]... a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan." In "Winning Modern Wars" (page 130) General Clark states the following: "As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan. (See Secret 2001 Pentagon Plan to Attack Lebanon, Global Research, July 23, 2006) The Role of Israel There has been much debate regarding the role of Israel in initiating an attack against Iran. Israel is part of a military alliance. Tel Aviv is not a prime mover. It does not have a separate and distinct military agenda. Israel is integrated into the "war plan for major combat operations" against Iran formulated in 2006 by US Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM). In the context of large scale military operations, an uncoordinated unilateral military action by one coalition partner, namely Israel, is from a military and strategic point almost an impossibility. Israel is a de facto member of NATO. Any action by Israel would require a "green light" from Washington. An attack by Israel could, however, be used as "the trigger mechanism" which would unleash an all out war against Iran, as well retaliation by Iran directed against Israel. In this regard, there are indications that Washington might envisage the option of an initial (US backed) attack by Israel rather than an outright US-led military operation directed against Iran. The Israeli attack --although led in close liaison with the Pentagon and NATO-- would be presented to public opinion as a unilateral decision by Tel Aviv. It would then be used by Washington to justify, in the eyes of World opinion, a military intervention of the US and NATO with a view to "defending Israel", rather than attacking Iran. Under existing military cooperation agreements, both the US and NATO would be "obligated" to "defend Israel" against Iran and Syria. It is worth noting, in this regard, that at the outset of Bush's second term, (former) Vice President Dick Cheney hinted, in no uncertain terms, that Iran was "right at the top of the list" of the "rogue enemies" of America, and that Israel would, so to speak, "be doing the bombing for us", without US military involvement and without us putting pressure on them "to do it" (See Michel Chossudovsky, Planned US-Israeli Attack on Iran, Global Research, May 1, 2005): According to Cheney: "One of the concerns people have is that Israel might do it without being asked... Given the fact that Iran has a stated policy that their objective is the destruction of Israel, the Israelis might well decide to act first, and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterwards," (Dick Cheney, quoted from an MSNBC Interview, January 2005) Commenting the Vice President's assertion, former National Security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski in an interview on PBS, confirmed with some apprehension, yes: Cheney wants Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to act on America's behalf and "do it" for us: "Iran I think is more ambiguous. And there the issue is certainly not tyranny; it's nuclear weapons. And the vice president today in a kind of a strange parallel statement to this declaration of freedom hinted that the Israelis may do it and in fact used language which sounds like a justification or even an encouragement for the Israelis to do it." What we are dealing with is a joint US-NATO-Israel military operation to bomb Iran, which has been in the active planning stage since 2004. Officials in the Defense Department, under Bush and Obama, have been working assiduously with their Israeli military and intelligence counterparts, carefully identifying targets inside Iran. In practical military terms, any action by Israel would have to be planned and coordinated at the highest levels of the US led coalition. An attack by Israel would also require coordinated US-NATO logistical support, particularly with regard to Israel's air defense system, which since January 2009 is fully integrated into that of the US and NATO. (See Michel Chossudovsky, Unusually Large U.S. Weapons Shipment to Israel: Are the US and Israel Planning a Broader Middle East War? Global Research, January 11,2009) Israel's X band radar system established in early 2009 with US technical support has "integrate[d] Israel’s missile defenses with the U.S. global missile [Space-based] detection network, which includes satellites, Aegis ships on the Mediterranean, Persian Gulf and Red Sea, and land-based Patriot radars and interceptors." (Defense Talk.com, January 6, 2009,) What this means is that Washington ultimately calls the shots. The US rather than Israel controls the air defense system: '''This is and will remain a U.S. radar system,' Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said. 'So this is not something we are giving or selling to the Israelis and it is something that will likely require U.S. personnel on-site to operate.'" (Quoted in Israel National News, January 9, 2009). The US military oversees Israel's Air Defense system, which is integrated into the Pentagon's global system. In other words, Israel cannot launch a war against Iran without Washington's consent. Hence the importance of the so-called "Green Light" legislation in the US Congress sponsored by the Republican party under House Resolution 1553, which explicitly supports an Israeli attakc on Iran: "The measure, introduced by Texas Republican Louie Gohmert and 46 of his colleagues, endorses Israel’s use of “all means necessary” against Iran “including the use of military force.” ... “We’ve got to get this done. We need to show our support for Israel. We need to quit playing games with this critical ally in such a difficult area.”’ (See Webster Tarpley, Fidel Castro Warns of Imminent Nuclear War; Admiral Mullen Threatens Iran; US-Israel Vs. Iran-Hezbollah Confrontation Builds On, Global Research, August 10, 2010) In practice, the proposed legislation is a "Green Light" to the White House and the Pentagon rather than to Israel. It constitutes a rubber stamp to a US sponsored war on Iran which uses Israel as a convenient military launch pad. It also serves as a justification to wage war with a view to defending Israel. In this context, Israel could indeed provide the pretext to wage war, in response to alleged Hamas or Hezbollah attacks and/or the triggering of hostilities on the border of Israel with Lebanon. What is crucial to understand is that a minor "incident" could be used as a pretext to spark off a major military operation against Iran. Known to US military planners, Israel (rather than the USA) would be the first target of military retaliation by Iran. Broadly speaking, Israelis would be the victims of the machinations of both Washington and their own government. It is, in this regard, absolutely crucial that Israelis forcefully oppose any action by the Netanyahu government to attack Iran. Global Warfare: The Role of US Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM) Global military operations are coordinated out of US Strategic Command Headquarters (USSTRATCOM) at the Offutt Air Force base in Nebraska, in liaison with the regional commands of the unified combatant commands (e.g.. US Central Command in Florida, which is responsible for the Middle East-Central Asian region, See map below) as well as coalition command units in Israel, Turkey, the Persian Gulf and the Diego Garcia military base in the Indian Ocean. Military planning and decision making at a country level by individual allies of US-NATO as well as "partner nations" is integrated into a global military design including the weaponization of space. Under its new mandate, USSTRATCOM has a responsibility for "overseeing a global strike plan" consisting of both conventional and nuclear weapons. In military jargon, it is slated to play the role of "a global integrator charged with the missions of Space Operations; Information Operations; Integrated Missile Defense; Global Command & Control; Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance; Global Strike; and Strategic Deterrence.... " USSTRATCOM's responsibilities include: "leading, planning, & executing strategic deterrence operations" at a global level, "synchronizing global missile defense plans and operations", "synchronizing regional combat plans", etc. USSTRATCOM is the lead agency in the coordination of modern warfare. In January 2005, at the outset of the military deployment and build-up directed against Iran, USSTRATCOM was identified as "the lead Combatant Command for integration and synchronization of DoD-wide efforts in combating weapons of mass destruction." (Michel Chossudovsky, Nuclear War against Iran, Global Research, January 3, 2006). What this means is that the coordination of a large scale attack on Iran, including the various scenarios of escalation in and beyond the broader Middle East Central Asian region would be coordinated by USSTRATCOM. Map: US Central Command's Area of Jurisdiction Tactical Nuclear Weapons directed against Iran Confirmed by military documents as well as official statements, both the US and Israel contemplate the use of nuclear weapons directed against Iran. In 2006, U.S. Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM) announced it had achieved an operational capability for rapidly striking targets around the globe using nuclear or conventional weapons. This announcement was made after the conduct of military simulations pertaining to a US led nuclear attack against a fictional country. (David Ruppe, Preemptive Nuclear War in a State of Readiness: U.S. Command Declares Global Strike Capability, Global Security Newswire, December 2, 2005) Continuity in relation to the Bush-Cheney era: President Obama has largely endorsed the doctrine of pre-emptive use of nuclear weapons formulated by the previous administration. Under the 2010 Nuclear Posture Review, the Obama administration confirmed "that it is reserving the right to use nuclear weapons against Iran" for its non-compliance with US demands regarding its alleged (nonexistent) nuclear weapons program. (U.S. Nuclear Option on Iran Linked to Israeli Attack Threat - IPS ipsnews.net, April 23, 2010). The Obama administration has also intimated that it would use nukes in the case of an Iranian response to an Israeli attack on Iran. (Ibid). Israel has also drawn up its own "secret plans" to bomb Iran with tactical nuclear weapons: "Israeli military commanders believe conventional strikes may no longer be enough to annihilate increasingly well-defended enrichment facilities. Several have been built beneath at least 70ft of concrete and rock. However, the nuclear-tipped bunker-busters would be used only if a conventional attack was ruled out and if the United States declined to intervene, senior sources said."(Revealed: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran - Times Online, January 7, 2007) Obama's statements on the use of nuclear weapons against Iran and North Korea are consistent with post 9/11 US nuclear weapons doctrine, which allows for the use of tactical nuclear weapons in the conventional war theater. Through a propaganda campaign which has enlisted the support of "authoritative" nuclear scientists, mini-nukes are upheld as an instrument of peace, namely a means to combating "Islamic terrorism" and instating Western style "democracy" in Iran. The low-yield nukes have been cleared for "battlefield use". They are slated to be used against Iran and Syria in the next stage of America's "war on Terrorism" alongside conventional weapons. "Administration officials argue that low-yield nuclear weapons are needed as a credible deterrent against rogue states. [Iran, Syria, North Korea] Their logic is that existing nuclear weapons are too destructive to be used except in a full-scale nuclear war. Potential enemies realize this, thus they do not consider the threat of nuclear retaliation to be credible. However, low-yield nuclear weapons are less destructive, thus might conceivably be used. That would make them more effective as a deterrent." (Opponents Surprised By Elimination of Nuke Research Funds Defense News November 29, 2004) The preferred nuclear weapon to be used against Iran are tactical nuclear weapons (Made in America), namely bunker buster bombs with nuclear warheads (e.g. B61.11), with an explosive capacity between one third to six times a Hiroshima bomb. The B61-11 is the "nuclear version" of the "conventional" BLU 113. or Guided Bomb Unit GBU-28. It can be delivered in much same way as the conventional bunker buster bomb. (See Michel Chossudovsky, http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO112C.html, see also http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=jf03norris) . While the US does not contemplate the use of strategic thermonuclear weapons against Iran, Israel's nuclear arsenal is largely composed of thermonuclear bombs which are deployed and could be used in a war with Iran. Under Israel's Jericho?III missile system with a range between 4,800 km to 6,500 km, all Iran would be within reach. Conventional bunker buster Guided Bomb Unit GBU-27 B61 bunker buster bomb Radiactive Fallout The issue of radioactive fallout and contamination, while casually dismissed by US-NATO military analysts, would be devastating, potentially affecting a large area of the broader Middle East (including Israel) and Central Asian region. In an utterly twisted logic, nuclear weapons are presented as a means to building peace and preventing "collateral damage". Iran's nonexistent nuclear weapons are a threat to global security, whereas those of the US and Israel are instruments of peace" harmless to the surrounding civilian population". "The Mother of All Bombs" (MOAB) Slated to be Used against Iran Of military significance within the US conventional weapons arsenal is the 21,500-pound "monster weapon" nicknamed the "mother of all bombs" The GBU-43/B or Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb (MOAB) was categorized "as the most powerful non-nuclear weapon ever designed" with the the largest yield in the US conventional arsenal. The MOAB was tested in early March 2003 before being deployed to the Iraq war theater. According to US military sources, The Joint Chiefs of Staff had advised the government of Saddam Hussein prior to launching the 2003 that the "mother of all bombs" was to be used against Iraq. (There were unconfirmed reports that it had been used in Iraq). The US Department of Defence has confirmed in October 2009 that it intends to use the "Mother of All Bombs" (MOAB) against Iran. The MOAB is said to be "ideally suited to hit deeply buried nuclear facilities such as Natanz or Qom in Iran" (Jonathan Karl, Is the U.S. Preparing to Bomb Iran? ABC News, October 9, 2009). The truth of the matter is that the MOAB, given its explosive capacity, would result in extremely large civilian casualties. It is a conventional "killing machine" with a nuclear type mushroom cloud. The procurement of four MOABs was commissioned in October 2009 at the hefty cost of $58.4 million, ($14.6 million for each bomb). This amount includes the costs of development and testing as well as integration of the MOAB bombs onto B-2 stealth bombers.(Ibid). This procurement is directly linked to war preparations in relation to Iran. The notification was contained in a 93-page "reprogramming memo" which included the following instructions: "The Department has an Urgent Operational Need (UON) for the capability to strike hard and deeply buried targets in high threat environments. The MOP [Mother of All Bombs] is the weapon of choice to meet the requirements of the UON [Urgent Operational Need]." It further states that the request is endorsed by Pacific Command (which has responsibility over North Korea) and Central Command (which has responsibility over Iran)." (ABC News, op cit, emphasis added). To consult the reprogramming request (pdf) click here The Pentagon is planning on a process of extensive destruction of Iran's infrastructure and mass civilian casualties through the combined use of tactical nukes and monster conventional mushroom cloud bombs, including the MOAB and the larger GBU-57A/B or Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP), which surpasses the MOAB in terms of explosive capacity. The MOP is described as "a powerful new bomb aimed squarely at the underground nuclear facilities of Iran and North Korea. The gargantuan bomb—longer than 11 persons standing shoulder-to-shoulder [see image below] or more than 20 feet base to nose" (See Edwin Black, "Super Bunker-Buster Bombs Fast-Tracked for Possible Use Against Iran and North Korea Nuclear Programs", Cutting Edge, September 21 2009) These are WMDs in the true sense of the word. The not so hidden objective of the MOAB and MOP, including the American nickname used to casually describe the MOAB ("mother of all bombs'), is "mass destruction" and mass civilian casualties with a view to instilling fear and despair. "Mother of All Bombs" (MOAB) GBU-57A/B Mass Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) MOAB: screen shots of test: explosion and mushroom cloud State of the Art Weaponry: "War Made Possible Through New Technologies" The process of US military decision making in relation to Iran is supported by Star Wars, the militarization of outer space and the revolution in communications and information systems. Given the advances in military technology and the development of new weapons systems, an attack on Iran could be significantly different in terms of the mix of weapons systems, when compared to the March 2003 Blitzkrieg launched against Iraq. The Iran operation is slated to use the most advanced weapons systems in support of its aerial attacks. In all likelihood, new weapons systems will be tested. The 2000 Project of the New American Century (PNAC) document entitled Rebuilding American Defenses, outlined the mandate of the US military in terms of large scale theater wars, to be waged simultaneously in different regions of the World: "Fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars". This formulation is tantamount to a global war of conquest by a single imperial superpower. The PNAC document also called for the transformation of U.S. forces to exploit the “revolution in military affairs", namely the implementation of "war made possible through new technologies". (See Project for a New American Century, Rebuilding Americas Defenses Washington DC, September 2000, pdf). The latter consists in developing and perfecting a state of the art global killing machine based on an arsenal of sophisticated new weaponry, which would eventually replace the existing paradigms. "Thus, it can be foreseen that the process of transformation will in fact be a two-stage process: first of transition, then of more thoroughgoing transformation. The breakpoint will come when a preponderance of new weapons systems begins to enter service, perhaps when, for example, unmanned aerial vehicles begin to be as numerous as manned aircraft. In this regard, the Pentagon should be very wary of making large investments in new programs – tanks, planes, aircraft carriers, for example – that would commit U.S. forces to current paradigms of warfare for many decades to come. (Ibid, emphasis added) The war on Iran could indeed mark this crucial breakpoint, with new space-based weapons systems being applied with a view to disabling an enemy which has significant conventional military capabilities including more than half a million ground forces. Electromagnetic Weapons Electromagnetic weapons could be used to destabilize Iran's communications systems, disable electric power generation, undermine and destabilize command and control, government infrastructure, transportation, energy, etc. Within the same family of weapons, environmental modifications techniques (ENMOD) (weather warfare) developed under the HAARP programme could also be applied. (See Michel Chossudovsky, "Owning the Weather" for Military Use, Global Research, September 27, 2004). These weapons systems are fully operational. In this context, te US Air Force document AF 2025 explicitly acknowledgedthe military applications of weather modification technologies: "Weather modification will become a part of domestic and international security and could be done unilaterally... It could have offensive and defensive applications and even be used for deterrence purposes. The ability to generate precipitation, fog, and storms on earth or to modify space weather, improve communications through ionospheric modification (the use of ionospheric mirrors), and the production of artificial weather all are a part of an integrated set of technologies which can provide substantial increase in US, or degraded capability in an adversary, to achieve global awareness, reach, and power." (Air Force 2025 Final Report, See also US Air Force: Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025, AF2025 v3c15-1 | Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning... | (Ch 1) at www.fas.org). Electromagnetic radiation enabling "remote health impairment" might also be envisaged in the war theater. (See Mojmir Babacek, Electromagnetic and Informational Weapons:, Global Research, August 6, 2004). In turn, new uses of biological weapons by the US military might also be envisaged as suggested by the PNAC: "[A]dvanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool." (PNAC, op cit., p. 60). Iran's Military Capabilities: Medium and Long Range Missiles Iran has advanced military capabilities, including medium and long range missiles capable of reaching targets in Israel and the Gulf States. Hence the emphasis by the US-NATO Israel alliance on the use of nuclear weapons, which are slated to be used either pr-emptively or in response to an Iranian retaliatory missile attack. Range of Iran's Shahab Missiles. Copyright Washington Post In November 2006, Iran tests of surface missiles 2 were marked by precise planning in a carefully staged operation. According to a senior American missile expert (quoted by Debka), "the Iranians demonstrated up-to-date missile-launching technology which the West had not known them to possess." (See Michel Chossudovsky, Iran's "Power of Deterrence" Global Research, November 5, 2006) Israel acknowledged that "the Shehab-3, whose 2,000-km range brings Israel, the Middle East and Europe within reach" (Debka, November 5, 2006) According to Uzi Rubin, former head of Israel's anti-ballistic missile program, "the intensity of the military exercise was unprecedented... It was meant to make an impression -- and it made an impression." (www.cnsnews.com 3 November 2006) The 2006 exercises, while creating a political stir in the US and Israel, did not in any way modify US-NATO-Israeli resolve to wage on Iran. Tehran has confirmed in several statements that it will respond if it is attacked. Israel would be the immediate object of Iranian missile attacks as confirmed by the Iranian government. The issue of Israel's air defense system is therefore crucial. US and allied military facilities in the Gulf states, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iraq could also be targeted by Iran. Iran's Ground Forces While Iran is encircled by US and allied military bases, the Islamic Republic has significant military capabilities. (See maps below) What is important to acknowledge is the sheer size of Iranian forces in terms of personnel (army, navy, air force) when compared to US and NATO forces serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. Confronted with a well organized insurgency, coalition forces are already overstretched in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Would these forces be able to cope if Iranian ground forces were to enter the existing battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan? The potential of the Resistance movement to US and allied occupation would inevitably be affected. Iranian ground forces are of the order of 700,000 of which 130,000 are professional soldiers, 220,000 are conscripts and 350,000 are reservists. (See Islamic Republic of Iran Army - Wikipedia). There are 18,000 personnel in Iran's Navy and 52,000 in the air force. According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, "the Revolutionary Guards has an estimated 125,000 personnel in five branches: Its own Navy, Air Force, and Ground Forces; and the Quds Force (Special Forces)." According to the CISS, Iran's Basij paramilitary volunteer force controlled by the Revolutionary Guards "has an estimated 90,000 active-duty full-time uniformed members, 300,000 reservists, and a total of 11 million men that can be mobilized if need be" (Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran - Wikipedia), In other words, Iran can mobilize up to half a million regular troops and several million militia. Its Quds special forces are already operating inside Iraq. US Military and Allied Facilties Surrounding Iran For several years now Iran has been conducting its own war drills and exercises. While its Air force has weaknesses, its intermediate and long-range missiles are fully operational. Iran's military is in a state of readiness. Iranian troop concentrations are currently within a few kilometers of the Iraqi and Afghan borders, and within proximity of Kuwait. The Iranian Navy is deployed in the Persian Gulf within proximity of US and allied military facilities in the United Arab Emirates. It is worth noting that in response to Iran's military build-up, the US has been transferring large amounts of weapons to its non-NATO allies in the Persian Gulf including Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. While Iran's advanced weapons do not measure up to those of the US and NATO, Iranian forces would be in a position to inflict substantial losses to coalition forces in a conventional war theater, on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan. Iranian ground troops and tanks in December 2009 crossed the border into Iraq without being confronted or challenged by allied forces and occupied a disputed territory in the East Maysan oil field. Even in the event of an effective Blitzkrieg, which targets Iran's military facilities, its communications systems, etc. through massive aerial bombing, using cruise missiles, conventional bunker buster bombs and tactical nuclear weapons, a war with Iran, once initiated, could eventually lead into a ground war. This is something which US military planners have no doubt contemplated in their simulated war scenarios. An operation of this nature would result in significant military and civilian casualties, particularly if nuclear weapons are used. The expanded budget for the war in Afghanistan currently debated in the US Congress is also intended to be used in the eventuality of an attack on Iran. Within a scenario of escalation, Iranian troops could cross the border into Iraq and Afghanistan. In turn, military escalation using nuclear weapons could lead us into a World War III scenario, extending beyond the Middle East Central Asian region. In a very real sense, this military project, which has been on the Pentagon's drawing board for more than five years, threatens the future of humanity. Our focus in this essay has been on war preparations. The fact that war preparations are in an advanced state of readiness does not imply that these war plans will be carried out. The US-NATO-Israel alliance realizes that the enemy has significant capabilities to respond and retaliate. This factor in itself has been crucial over the last five years in the decision by the US and its allies to postpone an attack on Iran. Another crucial factor is the structure of military alliances. Whereas NATO has become a formidable force, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), which constitutes an alliance between Russia and China and a number of former Soviet republics has been significantly weakened. The ongoing US military threats directed against China and Russia are intended to weaken the SCO and discourage any form of military action on the part of Iran's allies in the case of a US NATO Israeli attack. What are the countervailing forces which might prevent this war from occurring? There are numerous ongoing forces at work within the US State apparatus, the US Congress, the Pentagon and NATO. The central force in preventing a war from occurring ultimately comes from the base of society, requiring forceful antiwar action by hundred of millions of people across the land, nationally and internationally. People must mobilize not only against this diabolical military agenda, the authority of the State and its officials must be also be challenged. This war can be prevented if people forcefully confront their governments, pressure their elected representatives, organize at the local level in towns, villages and municipalities, spread the word, inform their fellow citizens as to the implications of a nuclear war, initiate debate and discussion within the armed forces. The holding of mass demonstrations and antiwar protests is not enough. What is required is the development of a broad and well organized grassroots antiwar network which challenges the structures of power and authority. What is required is a mass movement of people which forcefully challenges the legitimacy of war, a global people's movement which criminalizes war. Michel Chossudovsky is an award-winning author, Professor of Economics (Emeritus) at the University of Ottawa and Director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), Montreal. He is the author of The Globalization of Poverty and The New World Order (2003) and America’s “War on Terrorism” (2005). He is also a contributor to the Encyclopaedia Britannica. His writings have been published in more than twenty languages. he can be reached at the globalresearch.ca website Author's note: Dear Global Research Readers, kindly forward this text far and wide to friends and family, on internet forums, within the workplace, in your neighborhood, nationally and internationally, with a view to reversing the tide of war. Spread the Word! Related articles Targeting Iran: Is the US Administration Planning a Nuclear Holocaust? - by Michel Chossudovsky - 2010-08-09 Preparing for World War III, Targeting Iran - by Michel Chossudovsky - 2010-08-01 Global Military Agenda: U.S. Expands Asian NATO To Contain And Confront China - by Rick Rozoff - 2010-08-07 Israel’s Insane War on Iran Must Be Prevented - by Muriel Mirak-Weissbach - 2010-07-31 Part III Reversing the Tide of War. Criminalizing War (forthcoming) Please support Global Research Global Research relies on the financial support of its readers. 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Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 08:34:01 2010 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:34:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Message-ID: It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines today in many newspapers. My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour more to make my point. After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti hai.") People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. Pheeta Ram From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Sep 13 12:00:59 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (nmf2010) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:30:59 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_38-__NewMediaFest=272?= =?iso-8859-1?q?010?= Message-ID: <20100913083100.CFE05943.A788CE54@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest'2010 ------------------------------------------------ program- week 38 --> 13 - 19 September 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1048 ------------------------------------------------ 1. ------------------------------------------------ Feature of the Week 38 - Venue of the Week 38 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1043 The week 38 on NewMediaFest'2010 is celebrating at two venues a. [BOX] Gallery, the new space for videoart run by VisualContainer Milan (Italy), opens on 14 September 2010 the artvideoKOELN show -Phantoms of Perception- curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne b. Wilfried Agricola de Cologne will hold a lecture on 16 September 2010 at Kuenstlerhaus Vienna (Austria) about -10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne- ------------------------------------------------ 2. ------------------------------------------------ VideoChannel Cologne - is pleased to launch the Feature of the Month September 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1015 Fonlad Festival, Videolab Project Portugal and artvideoKOELN present Videoart from Portugal - curated by Pedro Almeida & Sergio Gomes ------------------------------------------------ 3. ------------------------------------------------ Feature of the Month September 2010 on NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1017 SoundLAB VII - soundCELEBRATION was releasing on 1 September 2010, the 7th edition of SoundLAB in sequence since 2004, celebrating soundart at it's best on occasion of the 10th anniversáry of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]||cologne as the highlight of 7 years promoting soundart as a creative form of digital art, including soundart pieces of more than 100 artists. ------------------------------------------------ 4.. ------------------------------------------------ SIP - SoundLAB Interview Project http://sip.newmediafest.org/?p=414 is pleased to release the new interviews with Debra Swack (USA) - Jason Bolte (USA) Vincent Bergeron (Canada) - Ed Osborn (USA) Marcus Beuter (Germany) - Stephen Ausherman [Jetty Jack X5] (USA) ------------------------------------------------ NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------------ From kaksanjay at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 12:17:59 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:17:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AG Noorani "Talkative generals" Message-ID: Forwarding a pretty riveting account of the growing assertion of the Indian military establishment in the political sphere. Although its from Frontline, I somehow couldn't get the link, so am providing an alternative (which is quite a site too!) Best Sanjay Kak ------------------------------- http://indianmilitarynews.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/talkative-generals/ Frontline Magazine Jul 31 - Aug 13 ESSAY: Talkative generals By A.G. Noorani President Obama’s dismissal of General Stanley A. McChrystal from his command in Afghanistan, for speaking to the media in intemperate language, is in the sound tradition of democratic governance. It flows from the fundamental principle of civilian supremacy over the military. Even in Communist China, Chairman Mao Zedong pithily prescribed that the party directed the gun. This tradition has been followed by India but not without serious breaches in the past and in recent years. Debate in the country has been uninformed and simplistic. The nuances of the principle have been ignored. The penchant for idolising the Army, accentuated since Kargil, has not helped in the discussion nor helped that splendid institution that has served the nation nobly, the Army. Since the records are locked up in foreign archives, few know that there was a time when a Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) discussed the possibility of a military coup in India with the British High Commissioner and, for good measure, with the Defence Minister. And that, at the Minister’s initiative. Another COAS, when he presided over the Eastern Command, revealed to the U.S. Consul-General in Kolkata the strength of the forces under his command – which, the Consul-General told his bosses, he already knew – and claimed to have told off the Defence Minister and to have wielded clout enough to change India’s policy on Vietnam, if only the listener had spoken to him earlier. One wonders about the range of his candour if it was an Ambassador who had lent him an ear. One wonders, no less, how voluble must these two COAS have been in instances not known to us. The habit and the trait in these times are very evident. In recent years, one Army chief successfully thwarted the government’s policy on a sensitive issue with his calculated pronouncements on the eve of successive diplomatic parleys and well-advertised briefings to the media on precisely such occasions. More recently, we have heard comments by the COAS and a corps commander on the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA) in crass ignorance of the law and with scant respect for its critics. They included a former judge of the Supreme Court. The trend is glaringly evident. When will it be arrested? And by whom? The government can go only thus far and no further. For, it faces not only the media but an opposition party (the Bharatiya Janata Party) that is out to break all the rules in its mad craze for power. Read this: “The rise of the Hindu Right to power was anticipated by the systematic infiltration of the highest levels of the Army apparatus. While the bulk of the Army leadership remains avowedly apolitical, the BJP has made methodical efforts to subvert this tradition, dragging a section of senior officers on to expressly partisan terrain. The decision of Director General Military Operations [DGMO] N.C. Vij and Air Vice Marshal S.K. Malik to brief the BJP national executive on the Kargil war on May 6 [1999] is just one example of this process. Infantry Division commander Major General [V.S.] Budhwar helped provide logistical support for the RSS-organised Sindhu Darshan festival at Leh in 1998. [L.K.] Advani and ideologue Tarun Vijay were among those who attended. In 1999, he again attended the Sindhu Darshan, organised with official aid, and graced by [Atal Bihari] Vajpayee, [George] Fernandes and Advani. Asked by a journalist whether it was appropriate for him to associate with political organisations, Budhwar claimed not to understand the question” (Praveen Swami; The Kargil War; LeftWord Books; page 95). Large sections of the public view the armed forces with an awe that suspends judgment. They chafe at the law of contempt as laid down by the Supreme Court. Presidents have not been immune to criticism, as A.P.J. Abdul Kalam discovered. The Army remains the one institution that is not subject to criticism. It strongly resents that, yet pronounces freely on matters beyond its legitimate domain. It regards itself unaccountable and above the law, a law unto itself. Before one considers the record on which these comments are based, the constitutional position must be borne in mind. The position in Indian law is no different from that in British law. “The chiefs of staff are the professional heads of the armed forces; they give professional advice to the government on strategy and military operations and on the military implications of defence policy.… Major questions of defence policy cannot be decided in purely military terms without reference to the government’s financial and economic policies, which affect the size, disposition and equipment of the armed forces. “The chain of command within the police stops with the chief constable, and neither local police authorities nor Central Government may give him instructions on the operational use of the police. This is not the case with the armed forces. In the case of the army, for example, the line of command runs upwards from the private soldier, through his commanding officer and higher levels of command to the Chief of the Defence Staff and the Secretary of State for Defence. During active operations many immediate decisions have to be taken by soldiers in the field. But the tasks which are undertaken by the armed forces, the objectives which they are set and the manner in which they carry out these tasks are matters for which the government is accountable to Parliament – whether it be the activities of the troops in Northern Ireland… the making of a controversial public speech by a high-ranking army officer, the sinking of the Argentinean ship General Belgrano during the Falklands conflict in 1982, or the conduct of the armed forces during the Gulf hostilities…. The full range of parliamentary procedures which are available in respect of other branches of central government may be used in respect of defence and the armed forces. Thus the Public Accounts Committee has often investigated case of excessive spending by the services” (A.W. Bradley and K.D. Ewing; Constitutional and Administrative Law; 12th Edition; page 376; emphasis added throughout). The government is accountable if any officer of the armed forces shoots off his mouth. Now for the record, past and present. On April 7, 1966, D.A. Scott of the British High Commission reported to London: “It so happens that just before your letter was received the High Commissioner had a talk with the Chief of Army Staff on this very subject, and I enclose a note of their conversation. The fact that General [J. N.] Chaudhuri was prepared to discuss such a delicate topic shows that it is not so far below the surface in the minds of the government and of the Army. (This is confirmed by a speech made by [K.] Kamaraj, the Congress president, in Madras on 17 March in which he said that if violence continued on the scale recently seen in the Punjab and Bengal, the military might conclude that democracy was unworkable and themselves take over the government.) We have accordingly set in hand a rather more detailed study of the subject and hope to be able to let you have it before the High Commissioner goes on leave on 22 April. [John] Freeman [the High Commissioner] would, of course, be prepared to discuss the subject with you and with anyone else who is interested when he is in London.” Chaudhuri did reject the idea of a coup. But it was a nuanced rejection, not an unqualified one. General S.H.F.J. Manekshaw takes the cake. Here is the record (see box). In a talk with the U.S. Consul-General in Kolkata, he opined freely on Kashmir and India-Pakistan relations; belittled the politicians’ capacity to achieve a settlement; with revealing lack of realism and the constitutional position, he held that civil servants and soldiers would accomplish it; mentioned the strength of the troops he had in his command; criticised his bosses, the Defence Minister as well as the Army chief, to a foreign official; criticised the government’s policy on Vietnam, criticised its policy of purchasing arms from the Soviet Union for which he held Generals Chaudhuri and P.P. Kumaramangalam responsible, not the government; discussed his chances of promotion as COAS; and the like. Not all were amused by his comment, half in jest, that Pakistan would have won the war if he were its Army chief. It belittled the jawan. But more reprehensible was his repeated claim, made, significantly, after her death, that he had told Prime Minister Indira Gandhi that he “ could” lead an Army coup; that he reaffirmed it when she contested the claim, whereupon she graciously conceded that he “ would” not. And he magnanimously accepted that. That the blatant falsehood passed muster for so long reflects poorly on retired officers of the Army and indeed on our defence “experts”. That fine soldier and gentleman Lt. Gen. Satish Nambiar is an outstanding exception. He publicly criticised Manekshaw. Now for the realities. Army commanders do not owe their job to the Army chief. Both are appointed by the same authority, the government. Since they do not owe the chief anything beyond a proper respect and obedience, there is no reason to believe that they would have complied with any such sordid game. Still less the chiefs of the Navy and the Air Force. Air Chief Marshal P.C. Lal was a man of strong moral fibre. The survival of India’s Constitution owes nothing to the forbearance of General Sam Manekshaw. Henry Kissinger sized him up correctly after they met in 1971 and told Richard Nixon, on October 7, 1971, that “he was so cocky, he thought he could defeat everyone in sight, all at the same time”. This is not the impression which the Prime Minister would have liked her Army chief to give to the U.S. in mid-1971. In this regard, one of his recent successors, Gen. J.J. Singh, set a record. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh pledged himself publicly to a settlement of the Siachen question. Differences have so narrowed as to lend themselves easily to a political decision. The dispute entails heavy loss in men and material and an environmental degradation without any strategic gain. Soldiers of high eminence have advocated a settlement in these last 25 years. Just when the prospects seemed bright, Gen. J.J. Singh intervened publicly and repeatedly to thwart the government’s policy. On May 20, 2005, talks on the Siachen issue were resumed in Islamabad. That very day, Gen. J.J. Singh said in New Delhi that India’s interests would be served only when the 110-kilometre-long Actual Ground Position Line, from NJ 9842 to the upper Saltoro range, was authenticated. The Army had given its views to the government. “We are awaiting the outcome of the talks.” They ended in failure the next day. On June 12, 2005, Manmohan Singh addressed the Army jawans at the Siachen base camp, the first Prime Minister to do so. He was familiarising himself with the realities in a constructive spirit. “Siachen is called the highest battlefield where living is very difficult. Now the time has come that we make efforts that this is converted from a point of conflict to the symbol of peace.” He assured the jawans that in the talks with Pakistan, “your well-being and the security of our nation would be kept in mind”. But he left no one in doubt that he sought a change. “How long shall we allow such conditions to prevail?” But, how else could that be achieved except through a compromise acceptable to both? Gen. J.J. Singh was not one to let that happen. On June 21, 2005, mediapersons asked him to comment on the Prime Minister’s speech. He did not tell them that it was not his place to do so but replied all too readily. He had already given his views to the government, he said, and reiterated that the Army wanted that Pakistan should “recognise” the new buzzword – the existing ground position. In short, the Army disagreed with the Prime Minister and he wanted the public to know that. A pronouncement avowedly on behalf of the Army, soon after the Prime Minister had spoken, has few precedents, if any, in India. Trust is a political judgment that is entirely for the political leadership to make, albeit after hearing the Army’s views. As Lt. Gen. P.N. Kathpalia, former Director General, Military Intelligence, said on November 12, 1988: “A soldier always over-assesses…. If you know this character of the Army, it is for the civilian government to make a correct judgement and put the actions right.” He spoke specifically in the context of the Siachen trap. Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri, former Foreign Minister of Pakistan, is a committed friend of India who bravely incurred criticism in his country for his staunch commitment (vide his interview to the writer, Frontline, December 5, 2008, pages 59-63). But even he could not resist a telling comment on one of the general’s statements calculatedly timed for the occasion. Arriving in New Delhi for talks with India’s leaders, he was appalled to read in the day’s papers one of Gen. J.J. Singh’s pronouncements. He tartly told mediapersons that while Pakistan was criticised in India for letting the Army shape policy, things were no different in India itself, evidently. The virus has seriously infected others. Unrest in Kashmir finds expression in stone-pelting because avenues of democratic peaceful protest are banned to the youth. Last year, the violence declined steeply. The young, freed from the fear of the gun, wielded alike by the security forces and the militants, began to voice their protests peacefully on the streets, a fundamental right recognised in all democracies. But not by the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief (GOC-in-C) of the Northern Command, Lt. Gen. B.S. Jaswal. Manmohan Singh’s visit to Jammu and Srinagar, on October 28 and 29, 2009, and his statements had raised high hopes. Immediately thereafter, on October 31, Lt. Gen. Jaswal told the media at Udhampur: “Violence in Kashmir was on the decline since 2006, with just 26 incidents of violent incidents reported this year as compared to 276 in 2006. However, the ‘agitational terrorism’ was a cause for worry.” He admitted that “militancy is down” but “my orders are to the troops – not only fight insurgents but also insurgency because that is the root cause of the whole trouble” ( Rising Kashmir and Greater Kashmir, November 1, 2009). The insurgent is a human; insurgency is a movement, motivated by an idea. It is one thing to use the gun against a violent insurgent, another to use it against those who peacefully propagate an idea in meetings or processions. Jaswal equates that with terrorism, coining the expression “agitational terrorism”. In 2005, this writer interviewed Lt. Gen. J.R. Mukherjee, GOC-in-C of the 15 Corps, in Srinagar (“A report on Kashmir”, Frontline, September 1, 2000). I had to interrupt him to stop the flow of his river of irrelevant rhetoric in spate in order to raise issues of the moment. For, his oration was devoted to the preposterous thesis that Kashmiris are not in a majority in Kashmir. He sought to establish it with slides and tables. The point is not that he was wildly off the mark. It is that he had no respect for the people or their feelings. Can you imagine the reaction to such a statement about Marathi-speaking people in Mumbai? After retirement, Mukherjee argued his thesis in a Kolkata daily, reflecting the depths of his disdain for Kashmiris. Jaswal, endowed with a talent for “elegant” phrasing, spoke recently of the AFSPA as a “pious” document. One has heard of holy books, not pious ones. It is rather hard for an inanimate thing to achieve piety. He declaimed in Srinagar on June 14, 2010: “Don’t touch this pious document or provisions of the Act giving the similarity [sic ] to a religious book.” The AFSPA is beyond reason and discourse. “I would like to say that the provisions of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act are very pious to me and I think to the entire Indian Army” (Kashmir Times, June 15, 2010). His claim about the entire Army was perhaps not wrong. For, on June 25, Army chief Gen. V.K. Singh said that the “AFSPA is a misunderstood Act and all who ask for its dilution/withdrawal do so for narrow political gains.” That would include presumably Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram, who has been working on the amendments for nearly a year. Since they are before the Cabinet, the COAS’ duty is not to go public with his views but communicate them to the Defence Minister. His attribution of motives is unworthy of a respected soldier like him. Would he care to recall Chidambaram’s statement in Itanagar, Arunachal Pradesh, on April 3 this year? He said: “There was a statement by the Prime Minister that he will take steps to replace the AFSPA with a more humane law” ( Asian Age, June 26, 2010). Is the Prime Minister also politically motivated? And so also Justice Jeevan P. Reddy, a former judge of the Supreme Court? For, a committee to “review” the Act was set up by the BJP government on November 19, 2004. It was headed by Justice B.P. Jeevan Reddy (retd) and comprised Lt. Gen. V.R. Raghavan, former DGMO; Dr S.B. Nakade, former Vice-Chancellor and jurist; P. Shrivastav, Indian Administrative Service (retd) former Special Secretary, Union Home Ministry; and Sanjoy Hazarika, a journalist. The terms of reference cited the “concerns of the people of the north-eastern region” and studiously ignored those of the people of Kashmir. The committee held no hearings there. Its recommendations cannot be so restricted. They were explicit. “ The Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, 1958, should be repealed. Therefore, recommending the continuation of the present Act, with or without amendments, does not arise” (Part IV; page 74 of the report). The COAS’ charge of political motivation reflects arrogant rejection of reasoned discussion. All such laws prescribe “reasonable use of force”. But the AFSPA contains a carte blanche, unheard of in any statute whether in India or abroad. Section 4(a) of the Act enables any officer of the armed forces to “ use force, even to the causing of death”. This is a juridical obscenity, a licence to kill with impunity. No COAS has any right to dismiss concerns about abuse of the AFSPA in the way Gen. V.K. Singh did. The COAS is not bereft of rights. He has not only a right but a duty to speak up publicly, depending on the circumstances, besides, of course, his right to voice his fears and objections to the government in private. He is perfectly entitled to take the people into his confidence if he is asked to achieve the impossible. A recent instance suffices to establish this since it has been a subject of comment though it falls into a settled tradition. It bears recalling that the GOC-in-C 15 Corps in Srinagar, Lt. Gen. Krishna Pal, said on March 8, 1998, that a military solution was not possible in Kashmir and a political solution must be sought. That was 12 whole years ago. On September 11, 2000, Army chief Gen. V.P. Malik said in Mohali, “ultimately there has to be a political solution to the [Kashmir] problem,” adding that it was imperative “to counter the alienation of the local population” (Asit Jolly, Asian Age, September 12, 2000). Such candour is rare. Not by the Army alone His successor, the new COAS, General S. Padmanabhan, said at a press conference in Srinagar on October 5, 2000: “We have no magical solution to any problem of this nature. In the history of mankind, no insurgency has been solved by any army.” He explained that “the Army’s duty is to hold insurgency within acceptable levels so that the government here continues to function”. Ergo, it is then for the government, which won the reprieve, thanks to the armed forces, to take advantage of it and reach out to the militants politically and thus establish peace, not use the peace to perpetuate its power. Gen. Padmanabhan said that all the organs of the state had to work together to address the causes of the insurgency. He knew the realities having served as GOC Northern Command and as commander of the 15 Corps (1993-95) when he played an important role in resolving tactfully the crisis when militants occupied the Hazratbal dargah in 1993. It was a turning point in the decline of the insurgency (Showkat A. Motta, Greater Kashmir, October 6, 2000). What sins, then, did the present COAS Gen. V.K. Singh commit when he reiterated in honest candour these very views in a press interview? He said: “I feel there is a great requirement for political initiatives which take all the people forward together. Militarily, we have brought the overall internal security situation in J&K firmly under control. Now the need is to handle things politically” (Rajat Pandit, The Times of India, June 30, 2010). On July 11, after the troubles had erupted fiercely, he remarked “that when the security situation had improved, the State administration should have reached out, but instead has frittered the opportunity away” ( Indian Express, July 12, 2010). This is a restatement of what Gen. Padmanabhan said 10 years ago in 2000. Gen. V.K. Singh was within his rights on both occasions, June 30 and July 11. Asked to comment on Gen. V.K. Singh’s statement of June 30, Gen. V.P. Malik defended him on a wrong notion in his interview to the BBC’s Urdu Service on June 30. The COAS, he asserted, was a “politico-military adviser”. That, he is not. He is a military adviser. It is another matter that his advice will have political implications. They are for the politicians in power to assess. Unless the distinction is fairly maintained, the military will not only assess threats but also decide on the response. Israel provides warning enough. Kobi Michael of Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in Israel has described the grim situation there in an erudite and insightful article entitled, “Who Really Dictates What an Existential Threat Is? The Israeli Experience” ( The Journal of Strategic Studies, October 2009, pages 687-713). Amir Oren wrote in the respected Haaretz of January 24, 2008: “In the dispute between the system’s leaders, the CGS (Chief of General Staff) is still the most powerful (actor) in comparison to the Head of the Mossad, Head of GSS (General Security Service) and even (the) Minister of Defence and Prime Minister – because nobody dares to decide against the position. The military echelon in Israel is the ultimate knowledge authority on the definition of security threats and shaping the responses for tackling them.” Kobi Michael rightly asserts: “National security is the clear domain of political leadership. Therefore, the responsibility for defining existential threats and their appropriate responses is the political leadership’s responsibility. The meaning of this responsibility is the supremacy of the political thought from which grand strategy is derived… when military strategy becomes hegemonic, existential threats will be defined on the basis of conceptual systems from the world of military thought, whose weaknesses are a bias towards conservative realism, anti-intellectualism, and worst-case scenarios.” The military claims superior access to information and also to assessment. Most politicians yield to both claims because they know no better and there is an “absence of alternative knowledge infrastructure” to military ones. Both soldier and politician collaborate to propagate the “religion of security”. Joseph McCarthy used security as a political tool. So does the BJP. Hence its fondness for the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA). “A vacuum is created and the public looks for the military’s professional advice.” The public is seduced by the worst-case scenarios painted by the irresponsible opposition, which preys on its fears. The talkative generals have done no little harm. It speaks for the strength of our democratic system that it survived those of the past even as it condones the trespasses of the recent ones. But the trend is clear and it must be arrested – now. Only the moral and intellectual authority of the political leadership can nip the creeping menace in the bud. From aliens at dataone.in Mon Sep 13 22:43:06 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:43:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because they were scared for their own lives." Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not getting hype compared to this attack. It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media regularly. Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were attacked. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines today in many newspapers. My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour more to make my point. After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti hai.") People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. Pheeta Ram _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 11:45:25 2010 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:45:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> Message-ID: Dear Tapas As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was cathartic, i believe. Dear Bipin After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! Best Pheeta On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up > because they were scared for their own lives." > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > getting hype compared to this attack. > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > regularly. > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > attacked. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > came > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > sakenge." > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > today in many newspapers. > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of > the > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > more to make my point. > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the > Taj > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that > the > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > around > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > reach > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and > of > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > hai.") > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > would > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > from > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > 20th > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > Pheeta Ram > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 16:12:34 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:12:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> Message-ID: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000927217088&ref=ts#!/profile.php?id=100000137477571 plz read the bio of this gentle man on FB interesting thanks Mr. Peetha ji On 9/14/10, Pheeta Ram wrote: > Dear Tapas > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > cathartic, i believe. > > Dear Bipin > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > Best > > Pheeta > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > > because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > > We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > > stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up > > because they were scared for their own lives." > > > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > > getting hype compared to this attack. > > > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > > regularly. > > > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > > attacked. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > > To: sarai list > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > > came > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > > sakenge." > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > > today in many newspapers. > > > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of > > the > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > > more to make my point. > > > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the > > Taj > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that > > the > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > > around > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > > reach > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and > > of > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > > hai.") > > > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > > would > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > > from > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > > 20th > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > > > Pheeta Ram > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 16:18:42 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:18:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A kashmiri poem on stone pelting Message-ID: Telle' layee mea Kainn... A Kashmiri poem By Aarsh M yelle' loolus mea kaind taar gandikh, telli laaye' mea kainn ! yelle' khaab meouin missmaar karukh, telle' laaye' mea kainn. yelle' goil chalavikh sheer kharus, mei khoonus leig greekh, yelle' maainz maharaaze' kabiri borukh, telle' laaye' mea kainn! yelle' gareeb moundi hiund garre zoolukh, jai hind wanaan, yelle' yelle' zulmusss dastaar gondukh, telle' laaye' mea kainn! yelle' Lal Ded travikh uriyaan yemmav. Rambiaar bhattee', yelle' Zoon achhan tal mooruk Yousuf, telle' laaye' mai kainn! yelle' vaythi manz rootli troovukh, sattan bennain hiund booye, yelle' moute' nindiri Akanandun soovukh, telle' laaye; mai kainn. 12/Sept/2010 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *** these lines are translation of a kashmiri poem by Aarsh Mushtaq. Emotions carried in orignal Kashmiri lines could not be depicted fully in its english version, however this is my small attempt to put those lines in english...please bear with my limited range of thought and interpretation*** Title : Then I pelted a stone Poem in Kashmiri by Aarsh Mushtaq Tr. by Jasim Hamid Malik When barbed wire cloaked my love Then I pelted a stone When my dreams got shattered Then I pelted a stone When they fired upon a toddler My blood got furuncles When grave ate away my henna clad groom Then I pelted a stone When a poor widow’s house was torched Blackguarding hymns of ‘Jai Hind’ Whenever oppression was garlanded Then I pelted a stone When they left Lal Ded au natural, desecrated by the Rambiar riverside When under moons gaze, they killed Yousuf Then I pelted a stone When at night they hurled him in Jhelum A brother of seven sisters When they brought his end, made him to sleep forever Then I pelted a stone 13/Sept/2010 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Title: And then I pelted stones... Poem in Kashmiri by Aarsh Mushtaq Tr. by Gowhar Fazili When my love was entwined in concertina wires I pelted stones. When my dream was demolished I pelted stones. When they shot a suckling baby My blood came to boil When they buried a groom whose henna was still wet I pelted stones. When a poor widows house was set on fire While proclaiming 'Jai Hind!' And an oppressor was honoured*1 I pelted stones. When Lal Ded (a medieval poet saint) was denuded and thrown In Rambiar Nala (Shopian) When Zooni's Yousuf was murdered in front of her I pelted stones. When a brother of seven sisters, was flung in Veth (Jehlum) When Aknandun*2 was put to sleep I pelted stones. *1 (Dastar Gandun Tie a turban to honour- probably a allusion to Omar being turbanedduring the current strife or may be Amma Kanna getting Bharat Ratna!) *2 (A character from a Kashmiri story who was born to an old couple after years of tapasia and beseeching a Sadhu for the blessing) 14/Sept/2010 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear brother, here is an english translation of your poem. If you approve, add it to your note so that more people can understand your heart-wrenching poem. Title : I take to stone-pelting. Poem in Kashmiri by Arish Mushtaq Tr By : Yirvun Kreel When my motherland is wrapped in barbed wires I take to stone-pelting. When my dreams are crushed I take to stone-pelting. When kids with a full set of milk-teeth are shot My blood boils, When a fresh bridegroom is lowered into the grave I take to stone-pelting. When homes of the destitute are burnt As Jai Hind fills the air! Whenever cruelty is thus crowned I take to stone-pelting When they strip Lal Ded (womanhood) naked And throw her into the fire of shame When Yousuf (lover) is killed under Zoon (beloved’s) gaze, I take to stone-pelting When the night is employed to throw into the Jhelum, The brother of seven sisters When murder is sung like a lullabyTo Akanandun (Apple of everybody’s eyes) I take to stone-pelting. From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Tue Sep 14 17:22:33 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 04:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <77711.94491.qm@web45508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>     Like any other state in INDIA with its own ups and downs but contributing towrds nation,  J&K as a whole should also be treated in the same manner now.  That is the only solution.   --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Inder Salim wrote: From: Inder Salim Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions To: "reader-list" Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 4:16 PM Dear Sonia i was casually surfing about agriculture, and found this interesting piece on Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite slippery to compare it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are some historical reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant. People are not happy with rural life, because of number of reasons. The crafts people are not adequately paid for their skills and they naturally shun traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their own systems which sutain... but the jobs are  jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as much a carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for the easier paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what must have happened in Kurdistan, where they are just little traditional farming left... the young boys seeking jobs ( police etc )in Kashmir are because we traditionally  have never respected the worker, but a govt servant, who manages to find a healthy wealthy and beautiful bride easily in comparision to non govt servant. There is a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans in Kashmir hounded Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left poltics during 40 to 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress policy of india and kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was a leftists ). even if we forget about the histroy how centre humilated Sheikh abdullah time and again... The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it does not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian govt been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have looked  down upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner, but that is unlikely. Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West Bengal who  experienced some land reforms... rest of india was mute spectator to brilliant changes that were happening under the broad day light.... Shame to Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which actually was meant to gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. That thing still continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, who joined hands in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual nature of kashmir issue. the discussion can go on will come back hugs love is the link below http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml Another sociological study states: "The share of agriculture in gross domestic product sank [from 1962 to 1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even though the number of those employed on the land has only dropped slightly (from 9.7 to 9.0 million). A result of this development was sinking incomes for those working in agriculture and a subsequent migration from the countryside. Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty towns) sprang up." [4] None of this amounts to the formation of a Kurdish bourgeoisie as the backbone of an independent nation-state, but rather signals the integration of the Kurdish people into the Turkish and international working class. The amalgamation of Turkish and Kurdish workers by means of a common socialist programme lay within reach. The perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have opened up favourable prospects for the structural development of the backward mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the Kurdish minority. On the other hand, the project of forming an independent nation-state was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. In the beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic social basis for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who might have hoped to find careers and posts in such a state apparatus. The PKK turned its back on the urban working class. Following its foundation in 1979-80, it organised a few battles and skirmishes with the big landowners, which were followed by the peasants with a certain sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK remained limited as they renounced a radical programme to liberate the peasants, so as not to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big landowners. Their bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), rival Kurdish organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear and terror among ordinary people. Meanwhile, the social democratic government of Bulent Ecevit was deliberately raking up national chauvinism and religious differences in order to gain control of the militant workers movement. The 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred during Ecevit's period in office. He entered a coalition with the Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of the present Welfare Party) and introduced the state recognition of Islamic schools. Once he had engineered clashes in this way, in 1978 Ecevit implemented military rule in the Kurdish provinces. At this time, there were around a million workers and students who were members of organisations claiming to be socialist. On 9/8/10, SJabbar wrote: > Not at all.  Please see my reply to Inder Salim. > > > On 08/09/10 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > dear Sonia, > > To ask questions and to judge are very different. No? > > I was just > > curious if the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the > posting about > > lines of young men joining the police could be stretched > to other moments in > > near times. Somehow from your response it seems it > cannot be. You somehow > > accept one as given and the other as strange. > Still not sure how you make > > that distinction. > > warmly > jeebesh > > On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar wrote: > > > > > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being > > > > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more > >> > > complicated and illegible > > than the judgement of the spectator. > > ' > > > > So > > the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question?  Then why > > do you > > > > question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from > > the > > ICS? > > Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by > > > > telling you > > he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a > > copy > > of the > > challan which you thought due to you. > > > > > > > > > > On 07/09/10 > > 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" wrote: > > > >> The so called iron frame of > > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS > > officers. > >> It was more than getting > > on with life :) > > > > On Kashmir i understand very little > >> to be able to > > comment. But some > > comments seem to mock the people who are > >> trying to > > articulate > > something substantial. A little caution   about > >> interpreting > > quickly. > > The maxim of the actors are always far more > >> complicated and > > illegible > > than the judgement of the spectator. > > > > On > >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 > > PM, SJabbar wrote: > > > >> Did they?  Or did they do what most > >> people do, make > > their peace with > >> the new > >> dispensation and get on with > >> life. > >> > >> The > > point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000 > >> > >> young > > men > >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people > >> > > are > >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K > >> > >> > > Police as > >> an abhorrent force?  Can it be that they are the relatives of > > men > >> > >> who are > >> already in the JKP?  Can it be that they don't subscribe > > to > >> azadi? > >> And how > >> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are > > in > >> the JKP and > >> JAKLI see > >> their kin? > >> > >> Another puzzling matter: > > we speak > >> of the AFSPA and its revocation > >> but the > >> JKP is not protected > > by the Act. > >> And one more thing: the army, that > >> has > >> been responsible > > for the worst > >> human rights abuses in the last 2 > >> decades is > >> not > > targeted by the > >> stone-pelters.  They continue their work of > >> > > patrolling > >> and cordon & > >> search operations as if they live on another > > planet. > >> The target > >> is > >> always the JKP. > >> > >> > >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, > > "Jeebesh" > >> wrote: > >> > >>> agreed. but how come they all > > became unquestionable nationalists > >> > >>> after > >>> > >> 1947? > >> > >> On > > 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote: > >> > >>> You're > >> right Jeebesh, and > >>> > > most people who were recruited were > >>> absolutely > >>> > >> loyal to the > > British > >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress. > >>> And > >> why > >>> > > just speak of the > >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply > >> divided > >>> > > and very > >>> few at the > >>> time articulated it as a 'war for > >> > > independence.'  It > >>> would be > >>> foolish to > >>> say that those who served > > the > >> British Empire were closet > >>> nationalists forced > >>> into furthering > > their > >> careers by joining the > >>> army or > >>> ICS. > >>> > >>> > >>> On > >>> > > 07/09/10 5:22 PM, > >> "Jeebesh" wrote: > >>> > >>>> recruitment > > in > >>> indian > >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in > >>> the > >>>> > > british army > >>> was > >> very high. what did this say about the aspiration > >>> > > and lives > >>>> being > >> led > >>> at that time in the sub continent. do we > > even > >>> count that number > >>>> > >> today in > >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in > > the sub > >>> continent? > >>> > >>> On > >> 07-Sep-10, at > >>>> 2:10 > >>> PM, SJabbar > > wrote: > >>> > >>>> But Gowhar, what happens > >> when a man who hitherto > >>>> > >>> > > abhors an > >>>> institution joins > >>>> it? What > >> happens to that extreme > > emotion > >>>> > >>> when the line is crossed, > >>>> when > >> the > >>>> uniform is > > donned, when the > >>> 'danda' > >>>> drops firmly into his > >> hands? > >>>> By your > > logic all those who joined > >>> the force > >>>> post-1990 once > >> abhorred > >>>> > > the > >>>> institution and now have become > >>> the > >>>> oppressors. > >> And those > > who pelt > >>>> stones > >>>> at the oppressors now want > >>> to > >>>> join > >> the > > same hated institution only > >>>> to become > >>>> future oppressors? > >>> > >> > > Not > >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men?  You may > >>>> understand this, > > but > >> I > >>> have to > >>>> tell you, it's left me totally > >>>> > > perplexed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On > >> 07/09/10 > >>> 1:58 PM, > >>>> "gowhar fazli" > > > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>> I don't > >>> like the > > heading > >>>> "Why Kashmir > >>>>> defies > >> solutions". > >>>>> > >>>>> It is > > in > >>>>>> > >>> these moments that the > >>>> real > >> desperation and loss > >>>>> > > of self of Kashmiris > >>> as a > >>>>>> people > >> becomes > >>>> evident. For > >>>>> > > livelihood they have to stoop > >>> before the > >> same > >>>>>> > >>>> > > institutions > >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor > >>> for > >> > > obvious > >>>> reasons. > >>>>> > >>>>>> This contradiction that runs through > > their > >>> > >> very selves, > >>>>> > >>>> prevents people > >>>>>> from acquiring a > > full blown > >>> > >> human-hood. > >>>>> > >>>>> There should > >>>> be no guilt > > or > >>>>>> indignity > >> associated > >>> with > >>>>> acquiring of livelihood > >>>> > > through legitimate > >> means, > >>>>>> but > >>> this > >>>>> is the case one way or > > the other, > >>>> for most > >> people in > >>>>> > >>> Kashmir. > >>>>>> The boundaries > > between legitimate and > >>>> > >> illegitimate > >>>>> are > >>> dizzyingly > > fuzzy > >>>>>> because of the manner in which > >> the > >>>>> > >>>> selves are > >>> > > split. > >>>>> > >>>>> If not for any > >>>>>> other but for > >> the indignities > >>>> > > involved > >>> in > >>>>> the status quo that Kashmir > >> issue > >>>>>> should be > > resolved for > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> good. > >>>>> > >>>>> --- On Tue, > >> 9/7/10, > > SJabbar > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >> > > From: SJabbar > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Subject: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies > >>>>>> solutions > >>>>>> To: > > "Sarai" > >>>> > >>> > >> > >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, > >>>>>> > > September 7, 2010, 10:19 > >>> > >> AM > >>>>>> > >>>> Printed from > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > Khaki enemy? 60,000 > >>>>>> Kashmiris > >> apply for > >>> 3,000 > >>>> police > >>>>> > > jobs > >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep > >> 7, > >>>>>> 2010, 01.30am > >>> > > IST > >>>>>> > >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of > >> desertions in its > > ranks > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> and > >>>>>> threats of > >>>> social > >>>>>> > >> boycott, > > J&K police has emerged as a big > >>> draw > >>>>>> for > >>>>> > >> young > >>>>>> > >>>> > > job hunters in > >>>>>> employment-starved > >>> Kashmir. Ignoring > >> calls > >>>>>> > > by > >>>>> > >>>> hardliners to > >>>>>> shun the khaki > >>>>>> > >>> force, > >> nearly > > 60,000 men applied > >>>>>> for > >>>> less than 3,000 > >>>>> jobs > >>>>>> in > >>> > >> > > J&K police -- > >>>>>> about 200 applicants for > >>>>>> > >>>> one > > constable's > >>> > >> post. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The applications piled up over the last > > few > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> months, > >>>>> about > >>>>>> the time when the > >>>>>> > > situation in the Valley > >>> > >> appeared > >>>> to > >>>>>> be spinning out > >>>>> > > of > >>>>>> control with the > >> cops > >>>>>> > >>> particularly being > >>>> at > > the > >>>>>> receiving end of public > >>>>> > >> wrath. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> J&K > > police DG Kuldeep > >>>> Khoda said > >>>>>> the > >> department > >>>>> has > >>>>>> > > received > >>> 58,975 > >>>>>> applications, > >>>> against > >> 2,786 > >>>>>> > > vacancies across the > >>>>> > >>> Valley. > >>>>>> "The response > >> > > from > >>>>>> > >>>> (the worst-hit) > >>>>>> Srinagar and > >>> Budgam districts > > was > >> even > >>>>> more > >>>>>> > >>>> heartening," he > >>>>>> said. > >>>>>> > >>> > > "We've received > >> 2,860 applications, against > >>>> 529 > >>>>> posts > >>>>>> > > in > >>> > >> Srinagar > >>>>>> > >>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in > >>>> > > Budgam," he > >>> > >> said. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lack of jobs > >>>>>> has been a big spur > > for the > >>>> > >> protests > >>>>> > >>> that > >>>>>> brought thousands > > of > >>>>>> > >>>>>> young educated > >> men on to the > >>>> > >>> streets. > > Official > >>>>> estimates of > >>>>>> the > >> number > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> unemployed > > in > >>> the > >>>> Valley stands at 3 > >> lakhs. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Khoda told > >>>>>> > > reporters the > >>> department held > >>>> > >> a > >>>>> recruitment > >>>>>> rally in > > Baramulla > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> district in July > >> and was > >>>> overwhelmed with > > the > >>>>> response. > >>>>>> "Over > >>> 8,000 > >>>>>> > >> people > >>>>>> turned up > > for > >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the > >>>>> > >>> > >> district," > >>>>>> > > he > >>>>>> said, and added > >>>>>> > >>>> that even stone-pelters > >>> > >> attended > > the rally. He said > >>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> department > >>>> was > >>>>>> > >> > > mulling > >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives > >>>>>> across > >>>>> > > the > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> Valley, > >>> particularly > >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area > > to end > >>>>>> > >> the > >>>> > >>> unrest. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The top cop rubbished > > reports on desertions > >> and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> insubordination. He > > claimed > >>>>>> no police personnel > >> had quit since > >>>> > >>> mid-June > >>>>>> > > when > >>>>> Kashmir > >>>>>> erupted in > >> anger > >>>>>> against the > >>> > > alleged > >>>> staged encounter > >>>>>> of three > >> north > >>>>> Kashmir > >>>>>> > > youth and > >>> a > >>>>>> 17-year-old > >>>> boy's killing > >> in > >>>>>> police > > action. Over 60 > >>>>> > >>> people, > >>>>>> including > >> women > >>>>>> > >>>> and > > children, have > >>>>>> died in police > >>> firing on > >>>>> > >> protesters > >>>>>> > > since > >>>> then. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> State > >>>>>> government > >>> sources > >> said J&K > > CM Omar > >>>>> Abdullah, > >>>> who > >>>>>> has called for a > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >> > > proactive approach including the phased > >>>> revocation of > >>>>> > >> > > the > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> controversial > >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces > > Act > >>>> to > >> deal with > >>> street > >>>>>> > >>>>>> protests, has ordered > >>>>>> > > creation of more > >> police > >>>> jobs to > >>> induct youth from > >>>>>> > > the > >>>>>> troubled > >> areas. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Meanwhile, in > >>>> its > >>> ongoing > > drive to reach out > >>>>>> > >> to the > >>>>> people, > >>>>>> Kashmir > > range > >>>>>> > >>> IGP > >>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai, > >> attended > >>>>>> > > police-public > >>>>> meetings in > >>>>>> > >>> Ganderbal > >>>> and > >>>>>> > >> Budgam > > districts. "At > >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police > >>>>> > >>> > > Lines, > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> around 300 people > >>>>>> including senior > >>>>>> > > citizens and > >>> sarpanchs > >>>> > >> participated," > >>>>> a > >>>>>> police > > spokesman > >>>>>> said. > >>>>>> "Sahai > >>> > >> assured the > >>>> people that > > police will > >>>>> adopt > >>>>>> maximum > >>> > >> restraint > >>>>>> > >>>>>> while > > dealing > >>>> with law and order > >>> > >> situations." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> > > _________________________________________ > >>>>>> > >>> reader-list: an > > open > >>>> > >> discussion > >>>>>> list on media and the > >>>>>> city. > >>>>>> > >>> > > Critiques & > >>>> > >> Collaborations > >>>>>> To > >>>>>> subscribe: send an email > > to > >>>> > >>> > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>>>>> with subscribe > >>>>>> in > > the subject > >>>> > >>> > >> header. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>>>> List > >> > > archive: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > > > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > _________________________________________ > >>>> > >> reader-list: an > > open > >>>> > >>> discussion > >>>>>> list on media and the city. > >>>> > >> Critiques > > & Collaborations > >>>> > >>> To > >>>> subscribe: send an > >>>>>> email to > >> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe > >>>> in the subject > >>>>>> > >> > > header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List > >> > > archive: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open > >>> > >> > > discussion > >>>> list on media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & > > Collaborations > >>>> > >> To > >>> subscribe: send > >>>> an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>>> > >> subscribe > >>> in the subject > >>>> > > header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List > > archive: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > __________________________ > >>>> _______________ > >>> reader-list: an > > open > >>> > >> discussion list on media and the > >>>> city. > >>> Critiques & > > Collaborations > >>> > >> To > >>> subscribe: send an email to > >>>> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in > >>> the subject header. > >>> > > To > >>>> unsubscribe: > >>> > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List > > archive: > >>>> > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > ______________________ > >>> ___________________ > >> reader-list: an open > >> > > discussion list on media and the > >>> city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To > >> subscribe: send an email to > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in > >> the subject header. > >> To > >>> unsubscribe: > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > >>> > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open > > discussion > >> list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To > > subscribe: send > >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe > > in the subject > >> header. > >> To unsubscribe: > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > __________________________ > >> _______________ > > reader-list: an open > > discussion list on media and the > >> city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To > > subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > > the subject header. > > To > >> unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > ______________________ > > ___________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 18:28:34 2010 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:28:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> Message-ID: Dear Inder Salim Thanks for bringing this to everybody's notice. Very interesting. You seem to have taken my mention of 'class hatred' far too seriously and literally deep down to your heart, i think. If it has hurt your sentiments i beg your pardon. [But, the question banta hai, ki inder bhai ko gussa kyon aaya?] Unfortunately, this is the problem when we begin talking about 'raw' things or rawness of things we are so very used to discuss in finer forms. Mota-moti baat karne mai thoda khatra to hai bhai. Ab resham ki taaron se haathi to baandha nahi ja sakta. You can't theorize something mota, something raw, something whose very nature is allergic to the language of theory. Theory is that damsel who wants to swallow an entire kaddu but without spoiling her lipstick. Now since that can't be, it will cut that big kaddu into small pieces and relish them. But whatever happened to that big kaddu that Ms Theory couldn't eat? For everybody's sake, here is the bio of the gentle man Inder has so earnestly dug out: i want to kill all the elites of the world; and construct a new world on the basis of love and respect. No one will suffer because of want. I know it is idealism which many philosophers have talked of, but i believe the time has come when we can do away with the unjust systems...let us wait for the day, for transcendence of the ego The very first line conjures up a 'pyramid upside down' kind of graph and hence very interesting to me at least. Thanks Pheeta Ram On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000927217088&ref=ts#!/profile.php?id=100000137477571 > > plz read the bio of this gentle man on FB > > interesting > thanks Mr. Peetha ji > > > > On 9/14/10, Pheeta Ram wrote: > > Dear Tapas > > > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. > I > > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event > or > > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of > 20th > > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > > cathartic, i believe. > > > > Dear Bipin > > > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' > situation > > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your > case. > > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my > post > > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn > to > > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in > Salman's > > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human > > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must > begin > > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come > under > > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This > is > > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its > impact > > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times > more > > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 > times > > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were > being > > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to > such > > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying > to > > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse > the > > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by > your > > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' > simmering > > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > > > Best > > > > Pheeta > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > > > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > > > because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody > stood up. > > > We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no > one > > > stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up > > > because they were scared for their own lives." > > > > > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and > that > > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his > picture > > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing > else and > > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim > not > > > getting hype compared to this attack. > > > > > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more > since > > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist > attack > > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more > people > > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier > Mumbai > > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and > red > > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also > and > > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of > CCTV > > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > > > regularly. > > > > > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took > place > > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype > only. So, > > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > > > attacked. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > > > To: sarai list > > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 > > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi > Times, > > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on > the > > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of > the > > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of > the > > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > > > came > > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited > it on > > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had > to > > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log > mare > > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha > hai. > > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon > ko > > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > > > sakenge." > > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then > but > > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite > himself, > > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made > headlines > > > today in many newspapers. > > > > > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one > another > > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the > Times > > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to > anybody. > > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > > > because > > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up > because > > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text > of > > > the > > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" > particularly, > > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to > labour > > > more to make my point. > > > > > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify > the > > > Taj > > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. > Some > > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness > so > > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion > (that > > > the > > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there > was > > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying > that > > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept > of > > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > > > around > > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > > > reach > > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i > begin > > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society > and > > > of > > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used > to > > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti > chakhti > > > hai.") > > > > > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' > point > > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > > > would > > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > > > from > > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic > essentialism' > > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend > to > > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. > Anything, > > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It > is > > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an > academic > > > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics > of > > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in > new > > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > > > 20th > > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find > yourself in > > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and > every > > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a > jelly > > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in > finding > > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > > > > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > > > > > Pheeta Ram > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Tue Sep 14 18:52:41 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON In-Reply-To: <663344.9106.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <943294.63892.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Good to know the roots, but have a doubt to ask "what made your ancestor to do so?" --- On Sun, 9/12/10, gowhar fazli wrote: From: gowhar fazli Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 3:50 AM Interestingly the first ancestor of mine who converted to Islam some six generations before was named Ganesh Kaul. So I have a special sense of identification with this word. Some of my South Indian friends with whom i have shared my ancestry and stories about it, send me Ganesha cards on the occasion! Some Ganesha cards used to arrive even on my birthdays, before Internet took over ;) May you prosper and have a happy festival! Gowhar Fazili --- On Sat, 9/11/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > From: Bipin Trivedi > Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > To: "sarai-list" > Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 9:38 AM > SHREE GANESHAY NAMAH - HAPPY GANESH > CHATURTHI > >  > > EID MUBARAK TO ALL MUSLIM BROTHERS > >  > > MITCHHAMI DUKADAM TO ALL JAIN BROTHERS - HAPPY SANVATSARY > >  > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 19:00:59 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:00:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON In-Reply-To: <943294.63892.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <663344.9106.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <943294.63892.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: dear we wi, i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a market place. what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one has the right to express but i am sure not this way. thanks Anupam On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:52 PM, we wi wrote: > Good to know the roots, but have a doubt to ask "what made your ancestor to > do so?" > > --- On Sun, 9/12/10, gowhar fazli wrote: > > From: gowhar fazli > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 3:50 AM > > > Interestingly the first ancestor of mine who converted to Islam some six > generations before was named Ganesh Kaul. So I have a special sense of > identification with this word. Some of my South Indian friends with whom i > have shared my ancestry and stories about it, send me Ganesha cards on the > occasion! Some Ganesha cards used to arrive even on my birthdays, before > Internet took over ;) May you prosper and have a happy festival! > > Gowhar Fazili > --- On Sat, 9/11/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > From: Bipin Trivedi > > Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > > To: "sarai-list" > > Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 9:38 AM > > SHREE GANESHAY NAMAH - HAPPY GANESH > > CHATURTHI > > > > > > > > EID MUBARAK TO ALL MUSLIM BROTHERS > > > > > > > > MITCHHAMI DUKADAM TO ALL JAIN BROTHERS - HAPPY SANVATSARY > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 19:00:59 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:00:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON In-Reply-To: <943294.63892.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <663344.9106.qm@web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <943294.63892.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: dear we wi, i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a market place. what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one has the right to express but i am sure not this way. thanks Anupam On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:52 PM, we wi wrote: > Good to know the roots, but have a doubt to ask "what made your ancestor to > do so?" > > --- On Sun, 9/12/10, gowhar fazli wrote: > > From: gowhar fazli > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 3:50 AM > > > Interestingly the first ancestor of mine who converted to Islam some six > generations before was named Ganesh Kaul. So I have a special sense of > identification with this word. Some of my South Indian friends with whom i > have shared my ancestry and stories about it, send me Ganesha cards on the > occasion! Some Ganesha cards used to arrive even on my birthdays, before > Internet took over ;) May you prosper and have a happy festival! > > Gowhar Fazili > --- On Sat, 9/11/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > From: Bipin Trivedi > > Subject: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > > To: "sarai-list" > > Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 9:38 AM > > SHREE GANESHAY NAMAH - HAPPY GANESH > > CHATURTHI > > > > > > > > EID MUBARAK TO ALL MUSLIM BROTHERS > > > > > > > > MITCHHAMI DUKADAM TO ALL JAIN BROTHERS - HAPPY SANVATSARY > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From patrice at xs4all.nl Tue Sep 14 19:11:28 2010 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 15:41:28 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Follow-up on the Blackberry story Message-ID: from the BytesforAll list (start from bottom up) ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [bytesforall_readers] Shekhar Kapur: A Blackberry addict discovers grassroots enterprise in India From: "Vickram Crishna" Date: Tue, September 14, 2010 14:57 To: bytesforall_readers at yahoogroups.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- John, Fred, Lee, and of course everyone else who finds this story such good fun: There is some sort of essential disconnect in the way money works (today, and for an exceptionally long time, perhaps rivalling the age of civilisation itself). Mr Kapur may have paid the two boys, say, by sending them to school, or some other form of goods or service meeting some need of theirs he could have elicited by more discussion between the three of them, instead of giving them money. We would then have found ourselves in even more of a dilemma. For if money does not flow, then our economic measuring systems refuse to accept that value has been created or exchanged. In years gone by, this hardly mattered, since there were no 'transparent' economic measurements. Indeed, rulers prided themselves on being above such things - that was part of the privilege of being born noble, or grabbing it through the exercise of violence, instead of being a ~moneygrubbing~ peasant or trader. Now that most of the world is democratic, we are all above such things, and take pride in both ruling and knowing something about money. Today, in fact, the world's economic wheels are greased by sophisticated measuring systems. Tiny eddies in money flows create global panics, and worthy seminars are organised in response where many wise things are said. What we fail to measure is that value is being created and exchanged in many places, but not being measured at all. Knowledge is being created and shared between many small groups of people, but we have no way of finding out about it, except when someone chooses to blog his 'eureka' experience (which wasn't even possible until this decade). Therefore, we fail to assign a monetary value to it, thereby condemning vast swathes of the world to grinding hopeless poverty. This is nowhere more evident than in India, not even in parts of Africa, from where heartrending photographs of kwashiokor-ridden children keep getting circulated. In India, we have the dilemma of a thriving economy, vibrating and growing, full of enterprise and globally important companies, even several among the world's richest individuals, some of whom are first-generation wealthy, while all around us the overwhelming majority of the people are caught in the jaws of 'chronic poverty', with very little to genuinely call hope that this will change in any foreseeable near term. I may not have 'qualified' as an economist, but I do enjoy the writings of Paul Krugman, Amartya Sen and Joseph Stiglitz, all three of whom have (in receding order) been awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics, which must count for something. All variously complain about the disconnect between 'real' value and our perceptions of it, and what is more, our manner of dealing with it. I have no idea when someone will start listening, and start fixing the structural problems. Vickram http://communicall.wordpress.com http://vvcrishna.wordpress.com > >From: john.lawrence >To: bytesforall_readers at yahoogroups.com >Cc: fredericknoronha at gmail.com; jhai-development at googlegroups.com >Sent: Mon, 13 September, 2010 15:15:41 >Subject: Re: [bytesforall_readers] Shekhar Kapur: A Blackberry addict discovers >grassroots enterprise in India > > >Fred, thanks for a classic vignette which captures elegantly what so much of >standard `development' misses... we all have these stories (mine concerns a >broken lens in my prescription glasses, fixed so quickly and perfectly in a >grubby bazaar backroom and at such an amazingly low price that I took it to >several New York opticians to see if they could find anything wrong with it, and >none could)...but along with those like myself who suffer from a chronic western >development ailment, I wonder about the policy implications; informal >sectors are alive and kicking worldwide, but how should employment policies >deal with this vibrant and spontaneous brilliance among so many young >entrepreneurs, especially given the numbers (and needs) of those that dont' have >these competencies? the skills are amazing, and seldom formally taught... to >meddle in that tenuous chain of informal learning is often to destroy it, and >trying to `clone' the example is also fraught with issues, not the least of >which may be to threaten the proprietary comparative advantage of the >relatively rare resource... ! So what should governments do... just keep hands >off? try to facitlitate platforms where such skills can be picked up ? offer >awards for `best neighborhood services?'... >kind regards, John > >John E S Lawrence (UNDP consultant) >Adjunct Professor, School of International & Public Affairs >Columbia University, New York, and >former Deputy Director, and Principal Technical Adviser >Social Development Division, Policy Bureau, >UN Development Program, New York. > > > >Lee Thorn wrote: > > >>"From Blackberry repair to social change that works" >> >>Fred N., your story of the two young men repairing your Blackberry is absolutely >>wonderful! Now, if all the folks like these two village young people who have >>great entrepreneurial ability, self-taught technical skills and perseverance >>networked together ... then the world changes for good! And not a moment too >>soon. >> >> >>We at Jhai Foundation just had a similar experience in Laos. We were working >>with villagers to put in an integrated telemedicine/education/livelihood >>ICT-enabled project in Phon Kham village, the village in which we put the first >>pedal-powered computer back in 2002. We were stuck. Nothing was happening. We >>Jhai 'experts' could come up with nothing that helped. >> >> >>The villagers decided to take matters in their own hands. Leaders from Phon >>Kham Women's Association and the eight village Parents' Association had a >>meeting with the district governor on their own. They together redefined the >>project so that consensus could be reached. It is now a Parents' Association >>project with leadership from Phon Kham villagers, especially the women. >> >> >>Villagers are doing their own room renovation. They are doing their own >>fundraising. And they are doing their own sustainability training with >>accomplished people we introduced them to, from the capital, Vientiane, and from >>a progressive village in Thailand just across the Mekong River. >> >>And what is Jhai doing? We're sharing some equipment designed in India and the >>US and assembled in Laos. We are representing our donors so that they have full >>accountability on their money. And we are watching in awe. >> >> >>Once the villagers succeed, they say they will tell all of Laos about their >>model. >> >>The key in both cases, I think, is exactly what you said, Fred. There is a lot >>of very valuable knowledge and entrepreneurial ability in very poor places. We >>need to trust that and find that and help get these stories around. >> >> >>And I believe the next step will be for folks like your new friends to work with >>and to cross-train with other folks in unlikely places. This will allow the >>best synergy to occurs. There are plenty examples of this synergy in India and >>in places like Brazil and in movements like those for telecentres in South >>America. I believe once this synergy includes the poorest, brilliant >>entrepreneurs,, it is unstoppable. . . >> >>And I am sure it will be great fun! >> >>yours, in Peace, >> >>Lee Thorn >>Chair, Jhai Foundation >>http://www.jhai.org >> >> >>Lee Thorn >>Chair, Jhai Foundation >>www.jhai.org . >> >>yours, in Peace, >> >>Lee >> From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 19:28:40 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:28:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> Message-ID: Believe me dear Pheeta ji ... just happened to see FB at the same time and saw this man, who was not on my FB friends list then, but now he is: now look , "it just happened" is the line, i believe, has performed, not only here, but always in big or small changes.. changes of all kind .... to predict becomes a little problematic... .... the entire masses on the planet want a change, good, we are part of that desire, but most of the times we all behave like a herd of sheep, ( buying all what we are told, rading all what they print etc etc ) unless driven by some sincere orators/visionaries who are almost an extinct species now... who is then, out there to show us the path , right path ? at the level of change, people simply dont trust now anybody... all they want is a car, a bungalow, two or three servants, and loads of free time....i like term here " hum tammam is hamman mein nangay hai " but then I see there is some opacity between all of us who are obviously naked in this bathhouse ( i japan, in hot spring bath, i saw , all were strangers, naked, but nothing communicates )....so metaphorically, it must be some garments on our bodies that lets us communicate...( nudity does communicates in art, akin to dream...which is important for understanding....later about that ) so within that desire amongst masses, to gain access of the material. at the lowest level even, is what manifests the texture of our presence... i guess... there is madness of sorts that is driving us, crisscrossing each other, almost hysterically.. if seen in a condensed way... so, 'the detail' interests me, which is very intimate to texture. the other ( read 'masses' ) is lot more about detail and texture, and therefore, the most vital force to throw new forms, new ideas and new changes. The form ( read ' Elite' ) on the other hand try all the tricks to underscore the detail, the texture.... there is certainly some hope, and i think we are like minded there.... shall come back to talk, very interesting to read you... love is On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > Dear Inder Salim > Thanks for bringing this to everybody's notice. Very interesting. You seem > to have taken my mention of 'class hatred' far too seriously and literally > deep down to your heart, i think. If it has hurt your sentiments i beg your > pardon. [But, the question banta hai, ki inder bhai ko gussa kyon aaya?] > Unfortunately, this is the problem when we begin talking about 'raw' things > or rawness of things we are so very used to discuss in finer forms. > Mota-moti baat karne mai thoda khatra to hai bhai. Ab resham ki taaron se > haathi to baandha nahi ja sakta. You can't theorize something mota, > something raw, something whose very nature is allergic to the language of > theory. Theory is that damsel who wants to swallow an entire kaddu but > without spoiling her lipstick. Now since that can't be, it will cut that big > kaddu into small pieces and relish them. But whatever happened to that big > kaddu that Ms Theory couldn't eat? > For everybody's sake, here is the bio of the gentle man Inder has so > earnestly dug out: > i want to kill all the elites of the world; and construct a new world on the > basis of love and respect. No one will suffer because of want. I know it is > idealism which many philosophers have talked of, but i believe the time has > come when we can do away with the unjust systems...let us wait for the day, > for transcendence of the ego > The very first line conjures up a 'pyramid upside down' kind of graph and > hence very interesting to me at least. > Thanks > Pheeta Ram > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >> >> >> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000927217088&ref=ts#!/profile.php?id=100000137477571 >> >> plz read the bio of this gentle man on FB >> >> interesting >> thanks Mr. Peetha ji >> >> >> >> On 9/14/10, Pheeta Ram wrote: >> > Dear Tapas >> > >> > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of >> > people. I >> > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i >> > think, >> > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or >> > event or >> > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art >> > form]. >> > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of >> > 20th >> > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites >> > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it >> > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was >> > cathartic, i believe. >> > >> > Dear Bipin >> > >> > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' >> > situation >> > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or >> > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has >> > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your >> > case. >> > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my >> > post >> > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn >> > to >> > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in >> > Salman's >> > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in >> > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not >> > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family >> > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human >> > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must >> > begin >> > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News >> > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come >> > under >> > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will >> > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This >> > is >> > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its >> > impact >> > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times >> > more >> > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 >> > times >> > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were >> > being >> > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of >> > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. >> > >> > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to >> > such >> > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying >> > to >> > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse >> > the >> > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my >> > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully >> > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by >> > your >> > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is >> > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its >> > parasitism. >> > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get >> > any >> > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by >> > the >> > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' >> > simmering >> > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class >> > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! >> > >> > Best >> > >> > Pheeta >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just >> > > because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody >> > > stood up. >> > > We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, >> > > no one >> > > stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up >> > > because they were scared for their own lives." >> > > >> > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and >> > > that >> > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his >> > > picture >> > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing >> > > else and >> > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim >> > > not >> > > getting hype compared to this attack. >> > > >> > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more >> > > since >> > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist >> > > attack >> > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more >> > > people >> > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of >> > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier >> > > Mumbai >> > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more >> > > casualties >> > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack >> > > and red >> > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to >> > > their >> > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also >> > > and >> > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of >> > > CCTV >> > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media >> > > regularly. >> > > >> > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took >> > > place >> > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype >> > > only. So, >> > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel >> > > were >> > > attacked. >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > Bipin Trivedi >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >> > > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] >> > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram >> > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM >> > > To: sarai list >> > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to >> > > 26/11 >> > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" >> > > >> > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi >> > > Times, >> > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on >> > > the >> > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front >> > > of the >> > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides >> > > of the >> > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, >> > > i >> > > came >> > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited >> > > it on >> > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and >> > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers >> > > had to >> > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log >> > > mare >> > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha >> > > hai. >> > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon >> > > ko >> > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid >> > > sakenge." >> > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then >> > > but >> > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite >> > > himself, >> > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made >> > > headlines >> > > today in many newspapers. >> > > >> > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one >> > > another >> > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the >> > > Times >> > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling >> > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to >> > > anybody. >> > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just >> > > because >> > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. >> > > We've >> > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one >> > > stood >> > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up >> > > because >> > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text >> > > of >> > > the >> > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" >> > > particularly, >> > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to >> > > labour >> > > more to make my point. >> > > >> > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the >> > > 'national >> > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify >> > > the >> > > Taj >> > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. >> > > Some >> > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and >> > > politeness so >> > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion >> > > (that >> > > the >> > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there >> > > was >> > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying >> > > that >> > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer >> > > as >> > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the >> > > concept of >> > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things >> > > around >> > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to >> > > reach >> > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used >> > > to >> > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them >> > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire >> > > to >> > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i >> > > begin >> > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society >> > > and >> > > of >> > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used >> > > to >> > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke >> > > waaste >> > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti >> > > chakhti >> > > hai.") >> > > >> > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' >> > > point >> > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) >> > > would >> > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as >> > > junk >> > > from >> > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic >> > > essentialism' >> > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i >> > > intend to >> > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly >> > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must >> > > always >> > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. >> > > Anything, >> > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. >> > > It is >> > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an >> > > academic >> > > from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics >> > > of >> > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in >> > > new >> > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of >> > > the >> > > 20th >> > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find >> > > yourself in >> > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their >> > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and >> > > every >> > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo >> > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a >> > > jelly >> > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in >> > > finding >> > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" >> > > >> > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. >> > > >> > > Pheeta Ram >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 20:09:44 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:09:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Food Grains Message-ID: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/sainath/article634136.ece Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From aliens at dataone.in Tue Sep 14 21:50:17 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:50:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> Message-ID: <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> Dear Pheeta, Neither I am elite nor fallen in news trap. I am middle class man. At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since he has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite only. Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To become rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own intellectual hard work along with destiny. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Dear Tapas As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was cathartic, i believe.   Dear Bipin After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! Best  Pheeta On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because they were scared for their own lives." Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not getting hype compared to this attack. It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media regularly. Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were attacked. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines today in many newspapers. My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour more to make my point. After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used to tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti hai.") People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics of arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. Pheeta Ram _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 22:41:52 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:41:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin sahib "Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny." it a very naive position , but it is a typical "middle class man" in India who believe so. best wishes, keep it up best is On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Pheeta, > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in  news trap. I am middle class man. > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since he > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite only. > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To become > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Tapas > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > cathartic, i believe. > > Dear Bipin > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > Best > > Pheeta > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > getting hype compared to this attack. > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > regularly. > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > attacked. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > today in many newspapers. > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > more to make my point. > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used to > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > hai.") > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > Pheeta Ram > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 22:49:28 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:49:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Follow-up on the Blackberry story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: very good understanding it further here is following by Solomon Benjamin http://world-information.org/wio/readme/992006691/1154964925 Either poverty must lose the fear of property, or property in fear of poverty will destroy democracy[1] If the ‘south’ and particularly their cities experience much higher growth rates than those in the ‘north’, has Int. capital reconstituted itself to invest and gain from these locations? Since real estate in cities of the South and retail provides one of the highest returns, how is land and its connected institutions sought to be framed to facilitate such extraction? This essay suggests that corporate led globalisation in rooting itself in cities of the south, faces un-expected confrontation in what they see as a new ‘Hydra’. What seemed like ‘messy, under-developed third world’ environments (Figure 1: Sundramma’s house) turned out to be increasingly beyond planning, assuming a life force of its own and subverting a global ideal. I borrow the term Hydra from two kinds of sources. The first use can be found in ‘English media press’ among the elite to describe three situations: an extensive and un-controllable underground economy; a messy, chaotic and corrupt city hall centred politics and bureaucracy; an all-pervasive un-authorized, non-conforming, un-planned, cancer like slumming process which rapidly edges out ordered city growth and subverts Master Planning. My second source is the use of the term by Linebaugh and Rediker to describe the quest for alternatives in 16-18th Century Europe and the Americas.[2] They show how a ‘motley’ bunch of sea farers, slaves, convicts in being banished seek out alternatives to define conceptions of property, and a way of life, and in doing so, termed a ‘hydra’ to threaten establishment. Today I see at least three aspects of the Hydra transforming what we know of ‘property’, ‘democracy’, and the conceptually flawed trilogy ‘the Nation State-Market-civil society’. The New Hydras are severely threatening in being shadows and stealth-like structures, capable of eroding the ‘self’. In breaking down binaries, they encroach on other binary/dualistic based conceptions. The new Hydras encroach on ‘property’ and the economy: Perhaps on the most structural level, the Hydra transforms notions of property. While located in seemingly mainstream notions of property, these are encroached upon in the forms of multiple tenures and claims that make centralized control and surplus extraction increasingly impossible (see figure 1-A: Street side Hydras). What emerges instead is a complex of networked bazaar like small firm clusters. Thus emerging diversity of tenure underpins and is at the same time shaped by an increasingly sophisticated economy. This comes at a time when globally connected big business (with the highest levels of government policy making and legislative apparatus at their side) promote digital forms of land title recording and a range of financial and institutional architecture to reinforce exclusive property regimes (see Figure 2: global-local networks in IT Campus development). Globally connected Financial Institutions, in partnership with a range of other players, invest in urban designed IT campus developments in cities like Bangalore, Delhi, Bombay and Hyderabad with excellent profits. A particular financial architecture around ‘Special Project Vehicles’ (SPVs), and mechanisms such as Transfer of Development Rights (TDR) facilitates urban renewal of central city areas and also makes high returns to International capital possible. Real estate profits accrue from a play of ‘digital titles’ intended for online trading. The World Bank in partnership with India’s largest private banks invest $ 1000 m in e-governance, and in particular, computerized land titles. The digitisation of 20 million land records by the Goverment of Karnataka designated as a World Bank ‘Best practice’, reducing 1500 forms of land tenure to 256! This has allowed very large real estate companies catering to the IT industry to access land Bangalore, resulting in dramatic changes in land markets. An extension of the concept is a GIS based digitising of titles in 57 towns and secondary cities financed by the Asian Development Bank with back office support by the personal funds of the CEO of India’s largest IT company. Contest comes from a Hydra secured by diverse tenure regimes inherent within the ‘occupation and settlement’ process built around de-facto titles. In some parts, customary tenure forms a further block against this modernization ideal. These underpin incrementally developing small-scale land developments that house mixed land use as well as manufacturing and bazaar areas. The Hydra’s support comes from ‘regularization’ of occupied land and improvement of basic infrastructure by municipal councils. The latter’s gains are revenue and political clout, actions which strengthen and spur diverse tenure regimes. Such de-facto landscapes, highly agile and transformative of local society in economy and politics, come into being where information shaping the market of land is driven by the potential of change: of inter-connected home based manufacturing and of municipal upgrading of basic infrastructure, both actions which increase efficiency and by way of settlement, new social connections. The new Hydras encroach on democracy: Linebaugh re-enters our world when we see the location of fluid de-facto property being located in a building block of mainstream ‘democracy’: municipal politics. Not only are political party structures increasingly authoritarian but they are today susceptible to ‘capture’ by globally empowered and invested big business. Not surprisingly, this also makes space for those city builders enamoured with the mega and the large - seeming ways to make cities globally competitive! For this range of actors - the business, bureaucratic and political elite - what is deeply threatening is the opaqueness of municipal politics and its driving political economy of small business. Hardly conducive to centralized control, it is little wonder that national headquarters of political parties and their appointed provincial chiefs, backed by elite ‘civil society’ and the World Bank, press for ‘transparency and accountability’ reforms aimed at local government. Little on corporate accountability though! The response of the Hydra here is municipal democracy. However, in a situation of polarized power structures, such a democracy relies on stealth, on internal bureaucratic conventions, and interventions accentuating multiple forms of tenure to reinforce political and economic constituency. The new Hydra encroaches on city building: the Hydra, located in municipal government and rooted in the materiality of land, location and economy, anchors the day-to-day process of city building. This process contrasts conceptions of city building located in the conceptual framework of the ‘nation state’ or then the ‘market’. In these latter conceptions, the driving force is of the grand plan: one posed for equity and the other posed for efficiency. Either extreme poses centralized controls bound to break down when we consider local narratives of how areas come into being and those of wider city transformation. As urban terrain turns increasingly contested and conflict ridden, the distinction between normative planning and politics sets the stage to introduce the concept of ‘civil society’. Perhaps this is posed to strengthen the binary with a replacement of a trilogy of the ‘nation state-market - civil society’. Closer inspections of ‘civil society’ turn out to be little other than elite congregations. New institutional and legal framework for mega land acquisition makes available huge tracts of land in Bangalore’s periphery to construct IT campuses. In central city areas, urban renewal focused SPVs and TDRs open up space for Malls and Multiplexes designed over huge urban territory. Little wonder that the CEOs of India’s largest real estate firms and globally connected Financial Institutions press the central government to implement such frameworks in the more globally connected cities, posing these as a pre-requisite for ‘global competitiveness’. Many of the changes came about under the new governance model of the Bangalore Agenda Task Force (BATF) - headed by the city’s IT honchos supported by the then Chief Minister. Seen as a ‘supply side’ reform, they also framed the ‘citizen-centric’ Jannagraha and PROOF (a citizens campaign to promote transparency and accountability in local government)as the ‘demand side’. The head of Bangalore’s and now India’s famous ‘civil society movement’ makes an ardent plea for framing of digital rather than analogue land titles. Contest comes from the Hydra of municipal councils across party lines, the lower bureaucracy, and poorer residents resisting attempts to impose fines and increased user charges. The Hydra’s support in municipal democracy is critical. Local councils encourage occupation and extension of village and town areas. In central city areas, older forms of municipal licensing and tenancy payments help establish claims. The Hydra’s support: Municipal councils’ ‘messy’ and opaque politics and administrative procedures. These, not surprisingly, take on the responsibility to address what has been discussed before: A de-generative cancer-like politics afflicting cities like a Hydra. The imaginary of the global city is powerfully seductive to a variety of groups driven by various interests. For many within ‘civil society’, the way forward is for land management to be framed in digital records, GIS based online monitoring ‘un-authorized hawkers’ and non-conforming land use, and reigning in the politics within Municipal Government via the agenda of ‘transparency and accountability’. Central also are attempts to increase high-level bureaucratic control over elected municipal government via city commissioners and ‘citizen charters’. City building becomes strangely conflictual over control of territory, amalgamation into super large complexes of Malls and Multiplexes. These mega complexes are partnerships of administrator led Municipal Government and big business. Most important in ways to contain the Hydra, they combine newer legal and regulatory structures that not just provide access to cheap institutional finance, but dissolve claims over location to emphasize corporate control. The bustling bazaars selling look-a-likes and also other daily consumption goods helps a counter encroachment to root. In doing so, reinforcing the Hydra to carve out autonomous political and economic space. Cities as locations of the Hydra pose the question of hybridity of property central to its politics and economy. Hybridity also seems central to help understand contemporary forms of globalisation, and move away from conceptually defunct binaries. Such hybridity of property gives globalising cities like Bangalore particular distinctions. [1] Peter Linebaugh, Public Lecture at “Contested Commons/Trespassing Publics: A Conference on Inequalities, Conflicts and Intellectual Property” 6th - 8th January 2005 in New Delhi, India. Sarai/CSDS /Alternative Law Forum [2] Linebaugh P., Rediker M., The Many-Headed Hydra Verso New York 2000 Solly Benjamin is an independent researcher operating out of Bangalore and also part of a recently group called CASUMm. He has been looking at issues of urbanism, its politics, economy, and issues of land. On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Patrice Riemens wrote: > from the BytesforAll list > (start from bottom up) > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: Re: [bytesforall_readers] Shekhar Kapur: A Blackberry addict > discovers grassroots enterprise in India > From:    "Vickram Crishna" > Date:    Tue, September 14, 2010 14:57 > To:      bytesforall_readers at yahoogroups.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > John, Fred, Lee, and of course everyone else who finds this story such > good fun: > > There is some sort of essential disconnect in the way money works (today, and > for an exceptionally long time, perhaps rivalling the age of civilisation > itself). Mr Kapur may have paid the two boys, say, by sending them to > school, or > some other form of goods or service meeting some need of theirs he could have > elicited by more discussion between the three of them, instead of giving them > money. We would then have found ourselves in even more of a dilemma. For if > money does not flow, then our economic measuring systems refuse to accept > that > value has been created or exchanged. > > > In years gone by, this hardly mattered, since there were no 'transparent' > economic measurements. Indeed, rulers prided themselves on being above such > things - that was part of the privilege of being born noble, or grabbing it > through the exercise of violence, instead of being a ~moneygrubbing~ > peasant or > trader. Now that most of the world is democratic, we are all above such > things, > and take pride in both ruling and knowing something about money. > > Today, in fact, the world's economic wheels are greased by sophisticated > measuring systems. Tiny eddies in money flows create global panics, and > worthy > seminars are organised in response where many wise things are said. What > we fail > to measure is that value is being created and exchanged in many places, > but not > being measured at all. Knowledge is being created and shared between many > small > groups of people, but we have no way of finding out about it, except when > someone chooses to blog his 'eureka' experience (which wasn't even possible > until this decade). Therefore, we fail to assign a monetary value to it, > thereby > condemning vast swathes of the world to grinding hopeless poverty. This is > nowhere more evident than in India, not even in parts of Africa, from where > heartrending photographs of kwashiokor-ridden children keep getting > circulated. > > > In India, we have the dilemma of a thriving economy, vibrating and > growing, full > of enterprise and globally important companies, even several among the > world's > richest individuals, some of whom are first-generation wealthy, while all > around > us the overwhelming majority of the people are caught in the jaws of 'chronic > poverty', with very little to genuinely call hope that this will change in > any > foreseeable near term. > > > > I may not have 'qualified' as an economist, but I do enjoy the writings of > Paul > Krugman, Amartya Sen and Joseph Stiglitz, all three of whom have (in receding > order) been awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics, which must count for > something. All variously complain about the disconnect between 'real' > value and > our perceptions of it, and what is more, our manner of dealing with it. > > > I have no idea when someone will start listening, and start fixing the > structural problems. > > > Vickram > http://communicall.wordpress.com > http://vvcrishna.wordpress.com > > >> >>From: john.lawrence >>To: bytesforall_readers at yahoogroups.com >>Cc: fredericknoronha at gmail.com; jhai-development at googlegroups.com >>Sent: Mon, 13 September, 2010 15:15:41 >>Subject: Re: [bytesforall_readers] Shekhar Kapur: A Blackberry addict > discovers >>grassroots enterprise in India >> >> >>Fred, thanks for a classic vignette which captures elegantly what so much of >>standard `development' misses... we all have these stories (mine concerns a >>broken lens in my prescription glasses, fixed so quickly and perfectly in a >>grubby bazaar backroom and at such an amazingly  low price that I took it to >>several New York opticians to see if they could find anything wrong with > it, and >>none could)...but along with those like myself who suffer from a chronic > western >>development ailment, I wonder about the policy implications;     informal >>sectors are alive and kicking worldwide,  but how should employment > policies >>deal with this vibrant and spontaneous brilliance among so many young >>entrepreneurs, especially given the numbers (and needs) of those that > dont' have >>these competencies? the skills are amazing, and seldom formally taught... to >>meddle in that tenuous chain of informal learning is often to destroy it, > and >>trying to `clone' the example is also fraught with issues, not the least of >>which may be to threaten the proprietary comparative advantage of  the >>relatively rare resource... ! So what should governments do... just keep > hands >>off?  try to facitlitate platforms where such skills can be picked up ? > offer >>awards for `best neighborhood services?'... >>kind regards, John >> >>John E S Lawrence  (UNDP consultant) >>Adjunct Professor, School of International & Public Affairs >>Columbia University, New York, and >>former Deputy Director, and Principal Technical Adviser >>Social Development Division, Policy Bureau, >>UN Development Program, New York. >> >> >> >>Lee Thorn wrote: >> >> >>>"From Blackberry repair to social change that works" >>> >>>Fred N., your story of the two young men repairing your Blackberry is > absolutely >>>wonderful!  Now, if all the folks like these two village young people > who have >>>great entrepreneurial ability, self-taught technical skills and > perseverance >>>networked together ... then the world changes for good!  And not a > moment too >>>soon. >>> >>> >>>We at Jhai Foundation just had a similar experience in Laos.  We were > working >>>with villagers to put in an integrated telemedicine/education/livelihood >>>ICT-enabled project in Phon Kham village, the village in which we put > the first >>>pedal-powered computer back in 2002.  We were stuck.  Nothing was > happening.  We >>>Jhai 'experts' could come up with nothing that helped. >>> >>> >>>The villagers decided to take matters in their own hands.  Leaders from > Phon >>>Kham Women's Association and the eight village Parents' Association had a >>>meeting with the district governor on their own.  They together > redefined the >>>project so that consensus could be reached. It is now a Parents' > Association >>>project with leadership from Phon Kham villagers, especially the women. >>> >>> >>>Villagers are doing their own room renovation.  They are doing their own >>>fundraising.  And they are doing their own sustainability training with >>>accomplished people we introduced them to, from the capital, Vientiane, > and from >>>a progressive village in Thailand just across the Mekong River. >>> >>>And what is Jhai doing?  We're sharing some equipment designed in India > and the >>>US and assembled in Laos.  We are representing our donors so that they > have full >>>accountability on their money.  And we are watching in awe. >>> >>> >>>Once the villagers succeed, they say they will tell all of Laos about their >>>model. >>> >>>The key in both cases, I think, is exactly what you said, Fred.  There > is a lot >>>of very valuable knowledge and entrepreneurial ability in very poor > places.  We >>>need to trust that and find that and help get these stories around. >>> >>> >>>And I believe the next step will be for folks like your new friends to > work with >>>and to cross-train with other folks in unlikely places.  This will allow > the >>>best synergy to occurs. There are plenty examples of this synergy in > India and >>>in places like Brazil and in movements like those for telecentres in South >>>America.  I believe once this synergy includes the poorest, brilliant >>>entrepreneurs,, it is unstoppable.  .  . >>> >>>And I am sure it will be great fun! >>> >>>yours, in Peace, >>> >>>Lee Thorn >>>Chair, Jhai Foundation >>>http://www.jhai.org >>> >>> >>>Lee Thorn >>>Chair, Jhai Foundation >>>www.jhai.org    . >>> >>>yours, in Peace, >>> >>>Lee >>> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aliens at dataone.in Tue Sep 14 22:53:22 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:53:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> Message-ID: <000301cb5431$8874d580$995e8080$@in> Can you tell what you believe to become rich. You might be keeping politicians in mind who become elite by mal practices. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Dear Bipin sahib "Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny." it a very naive position , but it is a typical "middle class man" in India who believe so. best wishes, keep it up best is On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Pheeta, > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in news trap. I am middle class man. > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since he > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite only. > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To become > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Tapas > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > cathartic, i believe. > > Dear Bipin > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > Best > > Pheeta > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > getting hype compared to this attack. > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > regularly. > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > attacked. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > today in many newspapers. > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > more to make my point. > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > hai.") > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > Pheeta Ram > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 23:04:47 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 23:04:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: <000301cb5431$8874d580$995e8080$@in> References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <000301cb5431$8874d580$995e8080$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin ji Even a middle class man in India today is a part of the elite since it in itself is very painful to become a middle class person in a country where 77% of the population earns less than Rs. 20 per day. For once, Salman is right that it's the elite which got more focus than the poor during the attacks. The migrants from Bihar got less attention than the elites on the Taj. The problem is not that Salman has said that. The problem is that Salman says Pakistan is not at all involved in the attack. And I have my doubts on that. Rakesh On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Can you tell what you believe to become rich. You might be keeping > politicians in mind who become elite by mal practices. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Bipin sahib > > "Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny." > > it a very naive position , but it is a typical "middle class man" in > India who believe so. > > best wishes, keep it up > > best > is > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > Dear Pheeta, > > > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in news trap. I am middle class man. > > > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since > he > > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite > only. > > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To > become > > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi > > Cc: sarai-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > Dear Tapas > > > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. > I > > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event > or > > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of > 20th > > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > > cathartic, i believe. > > > > Dear Bipin > > > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' > situation > > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your > case. > > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my > post > > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn > to > > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in > Salman's > > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human > > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must > begin > > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come > under > > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This > is > > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its > impact > > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times > more > > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 > times > > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were > being > > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to > such > > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying > to > > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse > the > > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by > your > > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' > simmering > > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > > > Best > > > > Pheeta > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and > that > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his > picture > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else > and > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > > getting hype compared to this attack. > > > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist > attack > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more > people > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier > Mumbai > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and > red > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of > CCTV > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > > regularly. > > > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took > place > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. > So, > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > > attacked. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > > To: sarai list > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of > the > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of > the > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > came > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it > on > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had > to > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log > mare > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha > hai. > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > sakenge." > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > > today in many newspapers. > > > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one > another > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the > Times > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to > anybody. > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of > the > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to > labour > > more to make my point. > > > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the > Taj > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness > so > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that > the > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying > that > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept > of > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > around > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > reach > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i > begin > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and > of > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > > hai.") > > > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > would > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > from > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend > to > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. > Anything, > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It > is > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in > new > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > 20th > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself > in > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and > every > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in > finding > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > > > Pheeta Ram > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Sep 15 02:22:53 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 02:22:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir, September 2010. The Reichstag Fire (dispersed) Redux ? Message-ID: Dear all, The burning of a school can never be justified, not even in protest against the burning of a holy book. The situation in Kashmir once again seems to be spinning out of control of the initiatives that had come out of the spontaneous, peaceful protests. There is something deeply disturbing in the recent incidents of arson, leading to massive retaliation by the police and paramilitaries. Please see below my attempt to make sense of what is going on. Hoping for some sane and reasoned responses. Apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org best, Shuddha ------------------ Kashmir, September 2010. The Reichstag Fire (dispersed) Redux ? Shuddhabrata Sengupta September 14/15, 2010 As if by magic, those who had hidden themselves for the past few months in Kashmir are leading mobs and setting schools and public buildings on fire. And many more people have died tragic and unnecessary deaths. This time, unlike in the past, the blame must be squarely shared between those who fired the bullets, and some of those who led the incendiary crowds. Perhaps Kashmir has just entered a new and darker phase, brandishing a burning torch. This situation, in order not to be irreversible, needs the urgent and sane attention of Kashmiris themselves, and of all those who wish Kashmir and its people well. We could do well by way of beginning by turning our attention to a surprising detail hidden within the reports of the recent events of arson. National Conference apparatchiks, who did not even dare appear in public till recently for fear of being attacked for their role in sustaining the occupation of Kashmir by India's armed might, are now allegedly seen openly goading mobs of zealots to burn down a school in the name of the defence of religion. If this is true, the what we are witnessing is the realization by them of a wonderful opportunity to wear new costumes and speak new lines in the unfolding theatre of the moment. ------- See - The Indian Express Report - 'Valley Fires Rage, Omar feels the Delhi Chill' that lays bare the incidents of the day, including the burning of a school at Tangmarg. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/valley-fires-rage-omar-feels-the- delhi-chill/681260/0 ----------- Almost automatically, the tentative signs of even a partial climb- down by the Indian state or even a cosmetic dilution of measures like the hated Armed Forces Special Powers Act are being backpedalled at a furious pace. Almost magically, the shame and utter disgust associated with the discovery of videos of hideous instances of the naked humiliation of young men in Kashmir by the forces of the Indian state is drowned in a chorus of pious indignation at the sight of flames leaping in the skyline of Kashmir's towns and summer capital. What a profound victory for the intelligence-military-spin doctoring establishment in Delhi and what a bitter prospect of another impending setback, yet another foolish 'self-goal', for the beleagured people of Kashmir. The higher echelons of the Indian political military and security establishment have reason to be thankful to the lunatic who sparked all this off by posing smugly for television cameras with a few burning pages of the Quran in hand in far away New York. They have reason to thank Press TV, and even more reason to thank some of the people eager to be seen as zealots of Islam in Kashmir, and the likes of the NC leader Ali Sofi of Tangmarg for his sudden discovery of himself - as both - wounded Muslim and calculating arsonist. It is also important to remember, that the Eid day incident of arson of a few government buildings in Srinagar, which is a precursor to the current wave of attacks on public property, took place in highly suspicious circumstances. Each of the targeted buildings is under heavy security cover at all times, some even have round the clock CCTV surveillance. It is extremely surprising as to how an as yet unidentified group of arsonists could set fire to installations that were/are by no means neglected from the point of view of security. There appear to be no witnesses to the event either. The event, which drew the immediate condemnation of the Mirwaiz, was nevertheless attributed by government agencies to sections of the crowd provoked by his speech, and an FIR was duly lodged against him. Other sources, claim on different fora, that people recently recruited into the dreaded Ikhwani counter insurgency irregulars, were seen in the vicinity of the targeted buildings. The truth, could be somewhere between the two. It could be that ikhwani elements were motivated by secret agencies to act as 'agent provocateurs', it could also be true that they had been mingling in the the otherwise peaceful protesting crowd that marched to Lal Chowk on Eid afternoon. Both are possible. Anything is possible in the shadows of Kashmir. Close on the heels of the Eid incidents came yesterday's highly regrettable action of a mob torching a branch of the well regarded and respected Tyndale Biscoe School under the expert guidance of a National Conference leader, Ali Mohammed Sofi in Tangmarg, ostensibly to protest against the isolated incident of a lone person burning a few pages of the holy Quran in New York (as reported by a satellite TV channel close to the Ahmadinijad Regime in Iran - Press TV). The unrest, reported to have begun in Shia neighbourhoods of Budgam in the aftermath of the Press TV broadcast, was swiftly contained by Shia clerics themselves, before spreading to other areas, apparently at the unlikely behest of Hurriyat(G) activists, acting in a strange concert with their arch-enemies - NC loyalists. Details of this murky scenario are still unravelling. Fortunately, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, currently the most respected voice within the separatist camp, and the undisputed leader of the Hurriyat(G) faction, despite his reputation as an Islamist hardliner has strongly and unequivocally condemned the school burning and other acts of arson in protest against the desecration of the Quran. His statement, carried in today's Greater Kashmir newspaper, deserves a lengthy quotation, because of the seriousness of the situation, and the need for saner voices, such as that of Geelani (in the current context of mobs intent on arson) to prevail. The report is as follows - ------------ Geelani calls for restraint in protests over Quran ‘desecration’ GK NEWS NETWORK http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/14/geelani-calls-for- restraint-in-protests-over-quran-desecration--11.asp Srinagar, Sept 13:The Chairman of Hurriyat (G) Syed Ali Shah Geelani has called people of the Valley to exercise restraint over the allegeddesecration of Quran in US. The veteran leader condemned the attacks on Christian Missionary School in Tangamarg terming it handiwork of vested interests. “I can understand that emotions of Kashmiris Muslims have been hurt by the desecration of Quran. But at the same time, we have to control our emotions and not create such a situation which could given chance to vested interests to defame Islam and our movement,” Geelani told Greater Kashmir. In a bid to calm down angry protesters who had taken to streets against Quran desecration, Geelani addressed the protesters through telephones in various parts of the Valley. Geelani said Quran does not approve attacks on the minority communities or their establishments. “I urge the Muslims to protect the members of minority community and their religious places. We should at any cost maintain the age old communal harmony and brotherhood for which Kashmir is known World over,” he said while hailing the role of Christian missionaries in dissemination of education. Strongly condemning the desecration, Geelani said such acts show the frustration of US and its allies over the popularity of Islam. “Quran is in our hearts. By desecration of Quran the US has accepted its defeat and shown its cowardice,” he added. ---------------------------- However, the damage had been done. The police responded to protests, not all of which were intent on arson and destruction of property, with massive gunfire, people died, which precipitated more protests. News spread in the valley faster than fire spreads in unprotected wooden structures. More protests, more firing. The result, a shocking number of sevehteen more dead in one day, smug television anchors nodding to the rhyhtm of their 'I told you so' incantations, and headlinesed that screamed - 'Kashmir Burning'. For detailed reports of the day's violence see - --------- BLOODBATH IN VALLEY: 17 killed, 100s injured; Toll 88 Greater Kashmir, 15 September http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/14/bloodbath-in-valley-17- killed-100s-injured-toll-88-28.asp ----------- Within a flash, the image of the resistance in Kashmir was transformed from being an example of the massive moral strength of unarmed, leaderless crowds to the picture of orchestrated mayhem and destruction at the behest of a few individuals, seeking to usurp 'leadership' from a functioning, well organized, peaceful, articulate, resistant, anarchy, mainly of the young and the very young. Every effort needs to be made (on the ground, in the web, and face to face) now to ensure that this is only a temporary setback, and that the powerful, leaderless and unarmed character of the protests is not hijacked by a new crop of 'leaders' bent on subversion of hard won successes. The so called 'dilution' or partial repeal of the hated AFSPA, on which the Central Cabinet was supposed to take a decision, now seems highly unlikely. The fires, and those who started them, have done their work. The momentum that the sacrifices of the two month long period of peaceful protests had generated is now threatened by two days of arson. Shall the people of Kashmir, and those of us outside who are concerned by their fate, let this pass? It is curious that the elements associated with the ruling NC, the puppet party of the Indian state in Kashmir have had such an open hand in the latest incident. This is an excellent opportunity for a section within the NC to re-cast itself as a champion of Islam, and to steal the thunder of a section of pro-Azaadi protestors by suddenly appearing to be even more ultra-islamist than the genuine Islamists. Similar situations have occurred before - the dubious role played by Kashmiri politicians close to Delhi (and secretly close to Delhi) in the protests surrounding the episode of the theft and recovery of a holy relic (a hair of the prophet kept at the Hazratbal shrine) in 1963 which were defly handled by Indian intelligence agencies allowed an earlier generation to lose their focus, to realize, that suddenly, the wind was no longer in their sails. Then too, leading mobs against the 'desecration of a holy relic' was a National Conference emi,nence his name happens to be Farooq Adullah. The drift that set in during the seventeen days of crisis around the holy hair in 1963 was to the greatest advantage of the Indian state. The same constellation of forces and opportunities seems to want to repeat itself today. A massive crackdown, no budging on AFSPA, and an opportunity for the NC and its allied cast of sleaze and shadow to reinvent themselves as the champions of Islam in Kashmir (with a little help from the - at worst, uncscrouplous, or, at best, unknowing, media hype of Press TV). For those who do not know it well, Press TV is not unlike a more urbane and sophisticated version of 'Times Now' in Iran, and acts as the notionally 'independent' mouthpiece of an increasingly unpopular regime that treats its own young people exactly as callously and brutally as the Indian regime does in Kashmir. The raving book burning lunacy of a lone bigot in America is not a threat to the world of Islam, or to the people of Kashmir and their struggle. It should be treated as an isolated act that has received the harshest condemnation of a broad spectrum of the American people, including politicians ranging from Barack Obama and even Sarah Palin, secular commentators as well as the overwhelming number Christian and Jewish religious leaders, along with that of of world public opinion. Paradoxically, the threat to burn the Quran has generated more sympathy for Muslims in America, especially for American Muslims, amongst ordinary decent Americans, than any other incident has done so far. Even in the concerned video clip, we can hear the voices of numerous ordinary Americans loudly and clearly expressing their anger and outrage at the thoughtless assault by the lone-ranger on the freedom of Muslims to read and revere their scriptures. This response (as is evident in the video, and in the broad based condemnation of the inicident) should be interpreted intelligently, as a clear victory for the rights of the freedom of worship and consience by Muslims in America, rather than as evidence of their marginalization, or threat of marginalization, by a lunatic fringe. SAS Geelani is right in calling for restraint while protesting, but incorrect in implying that the people of the US as a whole are anti- muslim. Such broad generalizations are neither accurate, nor useful. To be distracted, at this instant, from the pressing concerns of the people of Kashmir, which have to do with violence, human rights violations, disappearances, the AFSPA and the illegitimacy of the occupation itself into a wild goose chase in search of the global Muslim Umma's notionally wounded honour, and into an ersatz Anti- Indianism/Anti-Americanism/Anti-Semitism is to play directly into the hands of the state in India, USA and Israel, which can happily paint the people of Kashmir (and Muslims everywhere) as 'Islamist zealots' on the one hand, even as it stokes the fires of communal and secterian passion through the underhand games of its trusted clients. The people of Kashmir, if they do not wish to fritter away the gains of a sophisticated and maturing political language of action in this current phase of their struggle, must not let their movement be derailed by a newly discovered, self-declared 'Islamist' leadership, which is composed either of a section of delusional rank reactionaries, or of double-agents, willing to play the Indian state's dirty game to subvert the movement for Azaadi in Kashmir. Those who know the history of the Palestinian people know fully well that the divisions within Palestinian society were used to the hilt by the Israeli military occupiers, who promoted the direct precursors of Hamas, through the seventies and the eighties, by turning a blind eye to 'Islamist' politics in the , as a means of destabilizing the unity, achieved through struggle, of the movement against the occupation of Palestinian lands. The result, several decades later, is a sclerotic, divided Palestinian resistance, more content with fighting within than with struggling against the enemy without, more busy acting in accord with the conflicting agendas of cynical puppeteers in Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia (who express nothing other than a 'token' sympathy with Palestinians in order to mask the stench of their own regimes) The bogey of 'Islam in Danger' in Kashmir is an instrument wielded by the clients of the shadowy operatives of the Indian state. The Iranian regime, as is to be expected, is also playing its dubious part. These may at first seem to be at cross purposes, but in reality, they are not very different from each other. Both have a stake (coming from different directions) in diluting the popular content of Kashmiri resistance into a 'pan-Islamic' movement that loses its specificity, its acuteness and sharpness, and begins to degenerate into the rhetorical banality of global Islamism - a chimera that can very conveniently mean all things to all people, and nothing at all to those it claims directly to represent. The Islamic Republic of Iran has consistently supported the objective reality of the Indian occupation of Kashmir. It has done this in order to bolster its own doctrine of suppressing the Kurds, Iranian Arabs and other Iranian minorities and to irritate Pakistan, which it has always seen as a client state of the USA, and with which it has issues of its own. This said, factions within the current Iranian regime may appear to be moving in the direction of thinking of a replacement of Indian power in Kashmir, but this does not by any means signify that it wants to see the emergence of a stable and independent Kashmir. Its new found concern for Kashmir does not stem from a genuine sympathy for Kashmir, but out of its own geo-political concerns. It is competing with India to be a regional hegemon, and its dabbling in Kashmir's troubled waters is just an indication of the moves it is preparing to make. Kashmiri people by and large (with the exception of a few gentlemen in the separatist camp) have few illusions about the dubiousness of successive Pakistani state sponsored support for the 'Kashmir Cause'. It would be at tragedy if this measure of mature realism about Pakistan were to be replaced by an untimely and credulous enthusiasm for the cynical moves of the current Iranian regime. The wider world (beyond the reach of the cliches of the self- declared leadership of the so-called Muslim umma, which never cared fundamentally for the fates of struggling people anywhere, within or without the Islamicate sphere) is just about beginning to be interested again, (and about time) in Kashmir. For this wider world to be suddenly confronted by images of bigots who burn schools in rage against bigots who burn pages from the scriptures is to virtually ensure that it's interest rapidly turns into indifference, if not into disdain. The people of Kashmir cannot afford to let that happen at this crucial juncture in their history. They must remember, that some fires, like the fire in the Reichstag in Berlin, at the beginning of Nazi power, are started precisely by those in power in order to put down the flames of liberty, and to give resistance a bad name. I hope that the people of Kashmir are not fooled into witnessing Kashmir's own distributed and dispersed version of the Reichstag Fire. It is time that the broad masses of the people of Kashmir, and their friends outside Kashmir, understood this very simple fact. Stick to what is happening on the ground, to the evil that men do to men, women and children. Let offences against God and faith, be taken care of by God, if, whoseover he or she is, so desires. And, burn nothing - neither books, nor buildings, nor schools, nor places of refuge or worship, nor the remaining chances of the forging of a new, exemplary language of resistance in Kashmir. END ___________ Shuddhabrata Sengupta From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 06:59:49 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:29:49 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir, September 2010. The Reichstag Fire (dispersed) Redux ? References: Message-ID: Well, somehow the people who are being tortured, being crushed, their women raped and killed, their men maimed and insulted, had time to take care of God's affairs. Today a guy called Manzur was talking on a BBC Hindi talk show. He justified the burning of the school. He corrected when the presenter said one school was burnt, by saying actually we burnt 2 schools. The schools, he said, were close to his house and it was the right reaction "because they burned our holy book." Well this is the news we have at this time, sooner or later on this list we will know about more conspiracies. IN some theories, Indian intelligence will be involed, in others America will be involved. And in yet others, Israel will be included. Yet God hasn't said a word. Or as Ham, a Samuel Beckett's character informs "... (expletive omitted by me). He doesn't exist." Saamne hai jo use, Log bura kahte hain Jisko dekha hi naheen Usko khuda kahte hain. (Sudarshan Fakir) The one close by Let him devil be Let that be worshipped That happens not to be. (Tara Prakash) Only if someone produced the same kind of cartoon that Danish cartoonist, or could tear some pages from holy books, or could burn them on weekly basis, such madness wouldn't happen. Danish cartoonists, Taslima Nasreens and this guy who was mad enough to undertake this useless task happen so rarely, they end up injuring or killing folks in India. In an unrelated context, it was a news to me that Iran has supported India's occupation of Kashmir. I don't remember Iran supporting India on this issue on any forum. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "Sarai Reader List" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 4:52 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir,September 2010. The Reichstag Fire (dispersed) Redux ? > Dear all, > > The burning of a school can never be justified, not even in protest > against the burning of a holy book. The situation in Kashmir once again > seems to be spinning out of control of the initiatives that had come out > of the spontaneous, peaceful protests. There is something deeply > disturbing in the recent incidents of arson, leading to massive > retaliation by the police and paramilitaries. Please see below my attempt > to make sense of what is going on. Hoping for some sane and reasoned > responses. Apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org > > best, > > Shuddha > ------------------ > Kashmir, September 2010. The Reichstag Fire (dispersed) Redux ? > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > September 14/15, 2010 > > As if by magic, those who had hidden themselves for the past few months > in Kashmir are leading mobs and setting schools and public buildings on > fire. And many more people have died tragic and unnecessary deaths. This > time, unlike in the past, the blame must be squarely shared between > those who fired the bullets, and some of those who led the incendiary > crowds. Perhaps Kashmir has just entered a new and darker phase, > brandishing a burning torch. This situation, in order not to be > irreversible, needs the urgent and sane attention of Kashmiris > themselves, and of all those who wish Kashmir and its people well. > > We could do well by way of beginning by turning our attention to a > surprising detail hidden within the reports of the recent events of > arson. National Conference apparatchiks, who did not even dare appear in > public till recently for fear of being attacked for their role in > sustaining the occupation of Kashmir by India's armed might, are now > allegedly seen openly goading mobs of zealots to burn down a school in > the name of the defence of religion. If this is true, the what we are > witnessing is the realization by them of a wonderful opportunity to wear > new costumes and speak new lines in the unfolding theatre of the moment. > > ------- > > See - The Indian Express Report - 'Valley Fires Rage, Omar feels the > Delhi Chill' that lays bare the incidents of the day, including the > burning of a school at Tangmarg. > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/valley-fires-rage-omar-feels-the- > delhi-chill/681260/0 > > ----------- > > Almost automatically, the tentative signs of even a partial climb- down by > the Indian state or even a cosmetic dilution of measures like the hated > Armed Forces Special Powers Act are being backpedalled at a furious pace. > Almost magically, the shame and utter disgust associated with the > discovery of videos of hideous instances of the naked humiliation of > young men in Kashmir by the forces of the Indian state is drowned in a > chorus of pious indignation at the sight of flames leaping in the skyline > of Kashmir's towns and summer capital. > > What a profound victory for the intelligence-military-spin doctoring > establishment in Delhi and what a bitter prospect of another impending > setback, yet another foolish 'self-goal', for the beleagured people of > Kashmir. > > The higher echelons of the Indian political military and security > establishment have reason to be thankful to the lunatic who sparked all > this off by posing smugly for television cameras with a few burning pages > of the Quran in hand in far away New York. They have reason to thank > Press TV, and even more reason to thank some of the people eager to be > seen as zealots of Islam in Kashmir, and the likes of the NC leader Ali > Sofi of Tangmarg for his sudden discovery of himself - as both - wounded > Muslim and calculating arsonist. > > It is also important to remember, that the Eid day incident of arson of a > few government buildings in Srinagar, which is a precursor to the current > wave of attacks on public property, took place in highly suspicious > circumstances. Each of the targeted buildings is under heavy security > cover at all times, some even have round the clock CCTV surveillance. It > is extremely surprising as to how an as yet unidentified group of > arsonists could set fire to installations that were/are by no means > neglected from the point of view of security. There appear to be no > witnesses to the event either. The event, which drew the immediate > condemnation of the Mirwaiz, was nevertheless attributed by government > agencies to sections of the crowd provoked by his speech, and an FIR was > duly lodged against him. > > Other sources, claim on different fora, that people recently recruited > into the dreaded Ikhwani counter insurgency irregulars, were seen in the > vicinity of the targeted buildings. The truth, could be somewhere between > the two. It could be that ikhwani elements were motivated by secret > agencies to act as 'agent provocateurs', it could also be true that they > had been mingling in the the otherwise peaceful protesting crowd that > marched to Lal Chowk on Eid afternoon. Both are possible. Anything is > possible in the shadows of Kashmir. > > Close on the heels of the Eid incidents came yesterday's highly > regrettable action of a mob torching a branch of the well regarded and > respected Tyndale Biscoe School under the expert guidance of a National > Conference leader, Ali Mohammed Sofi in Tangmarg, ostensibly to protest > against the isolated incident of a lone person burning a few pages of the > holy Quran in New York (as reported by a satellite TV channel close to > the Ahmadinijad Regime in Iran - Press TV). The unrest, reported to have > begun in Shia neighbourhoods of Budgam in the aftermath of the Press TV > broadcast, was swiftly contained by Shia clerics themselves, before > spreading to other areas, apparently at the unlikely behest of > Hurriyat(G) activists, acting in a strange concert with their > arch-enemies - NC loyalists. Details of this murky scenario are still > unravelling. > > Fortunately, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, currently the most respected voice > within the separatist camp, and the undisputed leader of the Hurriyat(G) > faction, despite his reputation as an Islamist hardliner has strongly and > unequivocally condemned the school burning and other acts of arson in > protest against the desecration of the Quran. His statement, carried in > today's Greater Kashmir newspaper, deserves a lengthy quotation, because > of the seriousness of the situation, and the need for saner voices, such > as that of Geelani (in the current context of mobs intent on arson) to > prevail. > > The report is as follows - > > ------------ > > Geelani calls for restraint in protests over Quran ‘desecration’ > > GK NEWS NETWORK > > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/14/geelani-calls-for- > restraint-in-protests-over-quran-desecration--11.asp > > Srinagar, Sept 13:The Chairman of Hurriyat (G) Syed Ali Shah Geelani has > called people of the Valley to exercise restraint over the > allegeddesecration of Quran in US. > The veteran leader condemned the attacks on Christian Missionary School > in Tangamarg terming it handiwork of vested interests. > “I can understand that emotions of Kashmiris Muslims have been hurt by > the desecration of Quran. But at the same time, we have to control our > emotions and not create such a situation which could given chance to > vested interests to defame Islam and our movement,” Geelani told Greater > Kashmir. > In a bid to calm down angry protesters who had taken to streets against > Quran desecration, Geelani addressed the protesters through telephones in > various parts of the Valley. > Geelani said Quran does not approve attacks on the minority communities > or their establishments. “I urge the Muslims to protect the members of > minority community and their religious places. We should at any cost > maintain the age old communal harmony and brotherhood for which Kashmir > is known World over,” he said while > hailing the role of Christian missionaries in dissemination of education. > Strongly condemning the desecration, Geelani said such acts show the > frustration of US and its allies over the popularity of Islam. “Quran is > in our hearts. By desecration of Quran the US has accepted its defeat and > shown its cowardice,” he added. > > ---------------------------- > > However, the damage had been done. > > The police responded to protests, not all of which were intent on arson > and destruction of property, with massive gunfire, people died, which > precipitated more protests. News spread in the valley faster than fire > spreads in unprotected wooden structures. More protests, more firing. The > result, a shocking number of sevehteen more dead in one day, smug > television anchors nodding to the rhyhtm of their 'I told you so' > incantations, and headlinesed that screamed - 'Kashmir Burning'. > > For detailed reports of the day's violence see - > > --------- > > BLOODBATH IN VALLEY: 17 killed, 100s injured; Toll 88 > > Greater Kashmir, 15 September > > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/14/bloodbath-in-valley-17- > killed-100s-injured-toll-88-28.asp > > ----------- > > Within a flash, the image of the resistance in Kashmir was transformed > from being an example of the massive moral strength of unarmed, > leaderless crowds to the picture of orchestrated mayhem and destruction > at the behest of a few individuals, seeking to usurp 'leadership' from a > functioning, well organized, peaceful, articulate, resistant, anarchy, > mainly of the young and the very young. Every effort needs to be made > (on the ground, in the web, and face to face) now to ensure that this is > only a temporary setback, and that the powerful, leaderless and unarmed > character of the protests is not hijacked by a new crop of 'leaders' bent > on subversion of hard won successes. > > The so called 'dilution' or partial repeal of the hated AFSPA, on which > the Central Cabinet was supposed to take a decision, now seems highly > unlikely. The fires, and those who started them, have done their work. > The momentum that the sacrifices of the two month long period of peaceful > protests had generated is now threatened by two days of arson. Shall the > people of Kashmir, and those of us outside who are concerned by their > fate, let this pass? > > It is curious that the elements associated with the ruling NC, the puppet > party of the Indian state in Kashmir have had such an open hand in the > latest incident. This is an excellent opportunity for a section within > the NC to re-cast itself as a champion of Islam, and to steal the > thunder of a section of pro-Azaadi protestors by suddenly appearing to > be even more ultra-islamist than the genuine Islamists. Similar > situations have occurred before - the dubious role played by Kashmiri > politicians close to Delhi (and secretly close to Delhi) in the protests > surrounding the episode of the theft and recovery of a holy relic (a > hair of the prophet kept at the Hazratbal shrine) in 1963 which were > defly handled by Indian intelligence agencies allowed an earlier > generation to lose their focus, to realize, that suddenly, the wind was > no longer in their sails. Then too, leading mobs against the 'desecration > of a holy relic' was a National Conference emi,nence his name happens to > be Farooq Adullah. The drift that set in during the seventeen days of > crisis around the holy hair in 1963 was to the greatest advantage of the > Indian state. > > The same constellation of forces and opportunities seems to want to > repeat itself today. A massive crackdown, no budging on AFSPA, and an > opportunity for the NC and its allied cast of sleaze and shadow to > reinvent themselves as the champions of Islam in Kashmir (with a little > help from the - at worst, uncscrouplous, or, at best, unknowing, media > hype of Press TV). For those who do not know it well, Press TV is not > unlike a more urbane and sophisticated version of 'Times Now' in Iran, > and acts as the notionally 'independent' mouthpiece of an increasingly > unpopular regime that treats its own young people exactly as callously > and brutally as the Indian regime does in Kashmir. > > The raving book burning lunacy of a lone bigot in America is not a threat > to the world of Islam, or to the people of Kashmir and their struggle. It > should be treated as an isolated act that has received the harshest > condemnation of a broad spectrum of the American people, including > politicians ranging from Barack Obama and even Sarah Palin, secular > commentators as well as the overwhelming number Christian and Jewish > religious leaders, along with that of of world public opinion. > Paradoxically, the threat to burn the Quran has generated more sympathy > for Muslims in America, especially for American Muslims, amongst ordinary > decent Americans, than any other incident has done so far. Even in the > concerned video clip, we can hear the voices of numerous ordinary > Americans loudly and clearly expressing their anger and outrage at the > thoughtless assault by the lone-ranger on the freedom of Muslims to read > and revere their scriptures. > > This response (as is evident in the video, and in the broad based > condemnation of the inicident) should be interpreted intelligently, as a > clear victory for the rights of the freedom of worship and consience by > Muslims in America, rather than as evidence of their marginalization, or > threat of marginalization, by a lunatic fringe. > SAS Geelani is right in calling for restraint while protesting, but > incorrect in implying that the people of the US as a whole are anti- > muslim. Such broad generalizations are neither accurate, nor useful. > > To be distracted, at this instant, from the pressing concerns of the > people of Kashmir, which have to do with violence, human rights > violations, disappearances, the AFSPA and the illegitimacy of the > occupation itself into a wild goose chase in search of the global Muslim > Umma's notionally wounded honour, and into an ersatz Anti- > Indianism/Anti-Americanism/Anti-Semitism is to play directly into the > hands of the state in India, USA and Israel, which can happily paint the > people of Kashmir (and Muslims everywhere) as 'Islamist zealots' on the > one hand, even as it stokes the fires of communal and secterian passion > through the underhand games of its trusted clients. > > The people of Kashmir, if they do not wish to fritter away the gains of a > sophisticated and maturing political language of action in this current > phase of their struggle, must not let their movement be derailed by a > newly discovered, self-declared 'Islamist' leadership, which is composed > either of a section of delusional rank reactionaries, or of > double-agents, willing to play the Indian state's dirty game to subvert > the movement for Azaadi in Kashmir. > > Those who know the history of the Palestinian people know fully well that > the divisions within Palestinian society were used to the hilt by the > Israeli military occupiers, who promoted the direct precursors of Hamas, > through the seventies and the eighties, by turning a blind eye to > 'Islamist' politics in the , as a means of destabilizing the unity, > achieved through struggle, of the movement against the occupation of > Palestinian lands. The result, several decades later, is a sclerotic, > divided Palestinian resistance, more content with fighting within than > with struggling against the enemy without, more busy acting in accord > with the conflicting agendas of cynical puppeteers in Iran, Syria and > Saudi Arabia (who express nothing other than a 'token' sympathy with > Palestinians in order to mask the stench of their own regimes) > > The bogey of 'Islam in Danger' in Kashmir is an instrument wielded by the > clients of the shadowy operatives of the Indian state. The Iranian > regime, as is to be expected, is also playing its dubious part. These may > at first seem to be at cross purposes, but in reality, they are not very > different from each other. Both have a stake (coming from different > directions) in diluting the popular content of Kashmiri resistance into a > 'pan-Islamic' movement that loses its specificity, its acuteness and > sharpness, and begins to degenerate into the rhetorical banality of > global Islamism - a chimera that can very conveniently mean all things > to all people, and nothing at all to those it claims directly to > represent. > > The Islamic Republic of Iran has consistently supported the objective > reality of the Indian occupation of Kashmir. It has done this in order to > bolster its own doctrine of suppressing the Kurds, Iranian Arabs and > other Iranian minorities and to irritate Pakistan, which it has always > seen as a client state of the USA, and with which it has issues of its > own. > > This said, factions within the current Iranian regime may appear to be > moving in the direction of thinking of a replacement of Indian power in > Kashmir, but this does not by any means signify that it wants to see the > emergence of a stable and independent Kashmir. Its new found concern for > Kashmir does not stem from a genuine sympathy for Kashmir, but out of its > own geo-political concerns. It is competing with India to be a regional > hegemon, and its dabbling in Kashmir's troubled waters is just an > indication of the moves it is preparing to make. Kashmiri people by and > large (with the exception of a few gentlemen in the separatist camp) have > few illusions about the dubiousness of successive Pakistani state > sponsored support for the 'Kashmir Cause'. It would be at tragedy if this > measure of mature realism about Pakistan were to be replaced by an > untimely and credulous enthusiasm for the cynical moves of the current > Iranian regime. > > The wider world (beyond the reach of the cliches of the self- declared > leadership of the so-called Muslim umma, which never cared fundamentally > for the fates of struggling people anywhere, within or without the > Islamicate sphere) is just about beginning to be interested again, (and > about time) in Kashmir. For this wider world to be suddenly confronted > by images of bigots who burn schools in rage against bigots who burn > pages from the scriptures is to virtually ensure that it's interest > rapidly turns into indifference, if not into disdain. The people of > Kashmir cannot afford to let that happen at this crucial juncture in > their history. They must remember, that some fires, like the fire in the > Reichstag in Berlin, at the beginning of Nazi power, are started > precisely by those in power in order to put down the flames of liberty, > and to give resistance a bad name. I hope that the people of Kashmir are > not fooled into witnessing Kashmir's own distributed and dispersed > version of the Reichstag Fire. > > It is time that the broad masses of the people of Kashmir, and their > friends outside Kashmir, understood this very simple fact. Stick to what > is happening on the ground, to the evil that men do to men, women and > children. Let offences against God and faith, be taken care of by God, > if, whoseover he or she is, so desires. And, burn nothing - neither > books, nor buildings, nor schools, nor places of refuge or worship, nor > the remaining chances of the forging of a new, exemplary language of > resistance in Kashmir. > > END > ___________ > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Wed Sep 15 21:14:45 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:14:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> Message-ID: <002a01cb54ec$ed296840$c77c38c0$@in> Can you tell how man become rich or elite? -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Dear Bipin sahib "Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny." it a very naive position , but it is a typical "middle class man" in India who believe so. best wishes, keep it up best is On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Pheeta, > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in news trap. I am middle class man. > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since he > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite only. > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To become > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Tapas > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > cathartic, i believe. > > Dear Bipin > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > Best > > Pheeta > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > getting hype compared to this attack. > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > regularly. > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > attacked. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > today in many newspapers. > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > more to make my point. > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > hai.") > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > Pheeta Ram > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anu.mukh at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 21:27:45 2010 From: anu.mukh at gmail.com (anuradha mukherjee) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:27:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: <002a01cb54ec$ed296840$c77c38c0$@in> References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <002a01cb54ec$ed296840$c77c38c0$@in> Message-ID: How does it matter Mr Trivedi, how does a man become rich? It is a matter of fact that coverage of the 26/11 attack was centered around the attack on Taj, not even on Oberoi's as much, while CST was nearly blacked out by the English television news channels. It was as if nothing happened there. And there was a feeling on the ground that it was because people who were rich were involved that so much attention was focused Taj. Around the 26/11 attack, another bomb blast had taken place in a crowded spot in Guwahati. Do you even remember it? All that said, the 26/11 attack got so much attention also because it made for compelling television - man to man gun battles on the ground. The entire way that the attack was carried out was completely audacious and somewhat unprecendented in India's metros. So there, Salman Khan is wrong in saying the coverage was hyped. The whole world was watching. Regards Anuradha On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Can you tell how man become rich or elite? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Bipin sahib > > "Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny." > > it a very naive position , but it is a typical "middle class man" in > India who believe so. > > best wishes, keep it up > > best > is > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > Dear Pheeta, > > > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in news trap. I am middle class man. > > > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since > he > > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite > only. > > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To > become > > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi > > Cc: sarai-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > Dear Tapas > > > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. > I > > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event > or > > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of > 20th > > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > > cathartic, i believe. > > > > Dear Bipin > > > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' > situation > > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your > case. > > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my > post > > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn > to > > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in > Salman's > > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human > > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must > begin > > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come > under > > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This > is > > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its > impact > > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times > more > > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 > times > > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were > being > > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to > such > > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying > to > > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse > the > > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by > your > > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' > simmering > > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > > > Best > > > > Pheeta > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and > that > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his > picture > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else > and > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > > getting hype compared to this attack. > > > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist > attack > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more > people > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier > Mumbai > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and > red > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of > CCTV > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > > regularly. > > > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took > place > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. > So, > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > > attacked. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > > To: sarai list > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of > the > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of > the > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > came > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it > on > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had > to > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log > mare > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha > hai. > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > sakenge." > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > > today in many newspapers. > > > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one > another > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the > Times > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to > anybody. > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of > the > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to > labour > > more to make my point. > > > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the > Taj > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness > so > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that > the > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying > that > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept > of > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > around > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > reach > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i > begin > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and > of > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > > hai.") > > > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > would > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > from > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend > to > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. > Anything, > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It > is > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in > new > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > 20th > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself > in > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and > every > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in > finding > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > > > Pheeta Ram > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From aliens at dataone.in Wed Sep 15 22:01:58 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 22:01:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <000301cb5431$8874d580$995e8080$@in> Message-ID: <002e01cb54f3$86f1a2c0$94d4e840$@in> Dear Rakesh, In my belief this figure of 77% earn less than 20 per day is wrong statistics. Read this article: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Only-45-per-cent-o f-the-population-earns-less-than-Rs-20-a-day/articleshow/6288970.cms Your comparison itself is faulty about migrant of Bihar with Taj terrorists attack. Such a huge terrorist attack if taken place in small town of Bihar with same casualties including foreigners than also it would have hyped this much. Even Salman knows that Pak involvement is there but they (Salman like people) can go to any level for their selfish motto. It is surprising that still you use word doubt for Pakistan involvement in the attack. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:05 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: Inder Salim; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Dear Bipin ji Even a middle class man in India today is a part of the elite since it in itself is very painful to become a middle class person in a country where 77% of the population earns less than Rs. 20 per day.  For once, Salman is right that it's the elite which got more focus than the poor during the attacks. The migrants from Bihar got less attention than the elites on the Taj.  The problem is not that Salman has said that. The problem is that Salman says Pakistan is not at all involved in the attack. And I have my doubts on that.  Rakesh On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Can you tell what you believe to become rich. You might be keeping politicians in mind who become elite by mal practices. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Dear Bipin sahib "Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny." it a very naive position , but it is a typical  "middle class man" in India who believe so. best wishes, keep it up best is On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Pheeta, > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in  news trap. I am middle class man. > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since he > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite only. > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To become > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Tapas > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > cathartic, i believe. > > Dear Bipin > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > Best > > Pheeta > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > getting hype compared to this attack. > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > regularly. > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > attacked. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > today in many newspapers. > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > more to make my point. > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used to > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > hai.") > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > Pheeta Ram > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Wed Sep 15 22:29:21 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 22:29:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <002a01cb54ec$ed296840$c77c38c0$@in> Message-ID: <003301cb54f7$5a0196e0$0e04c4a0$@in> Yes Anuradha, attack was centered around Taj, but if the attack was carried out elsewhere of same duration and impact would also be eye catchy international attention. May be CST was blacked out by English media but not at all by Indian media and carried CST attack coverage equally. In Guwahati bomb blast is taken place regularly unlike Mumbai so your comparison itself is irrelevant. Same as Kashmir before this recent protest, the events like disturbance/blasts/firing is regular happening in Kashmir and noticed routinely. Your sentence, ‘The entire way that the attack was carried out was completely audacious and somewhat unprecedented in India's metros” itself reflects about the attack nature and bound to catch international attention. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anuradha mukherjee [mailto:anu.mukh at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:28 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: Inder Salim; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" How does it matter Mr Trivedi, how does a man become rich? It is a matter of fact that coverage of the 26/11 attack was centered around the attack on Taj, not even on Oberoi's as much, while CST was nearly blacked out by the English television news channels. It was as if nothing happened there. And there was a feeling on the ground that it was because people who were rich were involved that so much attention was focused Taj. Around the 26/11 attack, another bomb blast had taken place in a crowded spot in Guwahati. Do you even remember it? All that said, the 26/11 attack got so much attention also because it made for compelling television - man to man gun battles on the ground. The entire way that the attack was carried out was completely audacious and somewhat unprecendented in India's metros. So there, Salman Khan is wrong in saying the coverage was hyped. The whole world was watching. Regards Anuradha   On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Can you tell how man become rich or elite? -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Dear Bipin sahib "Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny." it a very naive position , but it is a typical  "middle class man" in India who believe so. best wishes, keep it up best is On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Pheeta, > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in  news trap. I am middle class man. > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since he > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite only. > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To become > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Tapas > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > cathartic, i believe. > > Dear Bipin > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > Best > > Pheeta > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > getting hype compared to this attack. > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > regularly. > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > attacked. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > today in many newspapers. > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > more to make my point. > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used to > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > hai.") > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > Pheeta Ram > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From zulfi14 at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 23:27:22 2010 From: zulfi14 at gmail.com (Zulfiya Hamzaki) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:27:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How right you are, Dr. Singh Message-ID: *When we have policies trample on people's rights, and people go to courts seeking redress, what should the courts do, Prime Minister? - *P.Sainath* * How right are you, Dr. Singh The Hindu http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/sainath/article634136.ece* *Regards, Zulfiya* * From anu.mukh at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 09:48:20 2010 From: anu.mukh at gmail.com (anuradha mukherjee) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 09:48:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: <003301cb54f7$5a0196e0$0e04c4a0$@in> References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <002a01cb54ec$ed296840$c77c38c0$@in> <003301cb54f7$5a0196e0$0e04c4a0$@in> Message-ID: Mr Trivedi, You seem to have missed the point of my post. You repeated my own sentence to drive home a point I was already making. That the event deserved international attention because of the nature of the attack. The point I was making was that this hue and cry that took place in India was because the attack took place in Taj -- a place visited by those from the upper echelons of society, if not only the elite. Not that I endorse the killing of the elite. In most such attacks people die on the streets -- the common man dies. And people like you brush it aside by saying "many bomb blasts take place in Guwahati", so why pay so much attention. So this time the terrorists decided to catch your attention. That is the purpose of such attacks -- to catch attention. It is this apathy of people like you that drives the frustration of people caught in such internal wars. For you Guwahati does not matter, to others CST does not matter. By the way, even Hindi media focused on CST quite late. Strangely, only the international media had even coverage of the events. Anuradha On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Yes Anuradha, attack was centered around Taj, but if the attack was carried > out elsewhere of same duration and impact would also be eye catchy > international attention. May be CST was blacked out by English media but > not > at all by Indian media and carried CST attack coverage equally. In Guwahati > bomb blast is taken place regularly unlike Mumbai so your comparison itself > is irrelevant. Same as Kashmir before this recent protest, the events like > disturbance/blasts/firing is regular happening in Kashmir and noticed > routinely. > > Your sentence, ‘The entire way that the attack was carried out was > completely audacious and somewhat unprecedented in India's metros” itself > reflects about the attack nature and bound to catch international > attention. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > From: anuradha mukherjee [mailto:anu.mukh at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:28 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: Inder Salim; sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > How does it matter Mr Trivedi, how does a man become rich? It is a matter > of > fact that coverage of the 26/11 attack was centered around the attack on > Taj, not even on Oberoi's as much, while CST was nearly blacked out by the > English television news channels. It was as if nothing happened there. And > there was a feeling on the ground that it was because people who were rich > were involved that so much attention was focused Taj. Around the 26/11 > attack, another bomb blast had taken place in a crowded spot in Guwahati. > Do > you even remember it? > All that said, the 26/11 attack got so much attention also because it made > for compelling television - man to man gun battles on the ground. The > entire > way that the attack was carried out was completely audacious and somewhat > unprecendented in India's metros. So there, Salman Khan is wrong in saying > the coverage was hyped. The whole world was watching. > Regards > Anuradha > > On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Can you tell how man become rich or elite? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Bipin sahib > > "Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny." > > it a very naive position , but it is a typical "middle class man" in > India who believe so. > > best wishes, keep it up > > best > is > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > Dear Pheeta, > > > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in news trap. I am middle class man. > > > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since > he > > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite > only. > > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To > become > > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi > > Cc: sarai-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > Dear Tapas > > > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. > I > > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event > or > > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of > 20th > > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > > cathartic, i believe. > > > > Dear Bipin > > > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' > situation > > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your > case. > > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my > post > > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn > to > > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in > Salman's > > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of human > > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must > begin > > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come > under > > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This > is > > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its > impact > > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times > more > > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 > times > > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were > being > > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to > such > > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying > to > > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse > the > > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by > your > > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' > simmering > > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > > > Best > > > > Pheeta > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and > that > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his > picture > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else > and > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > > getting hype compared to this attack. > > > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist > attack > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more > people > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier > Mumbai > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and > red > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of > CCTV > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > > regularly. > > > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took > place > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. > So, > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > > attacked. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > > To: sarai list > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of > the > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of > the > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > came > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it > on > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had > to > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log > mare > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha > hai. > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > sakenge." > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > > today in many newspapers. > > > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one > another > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the > Times > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to > anybody. > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of > the > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to > labour > > more to make my point. > > > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the > Taj > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness > so > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that > the > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying > that > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept > of > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > around > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > reach > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i > begin > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and > of > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used to > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > > hai.") > > > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > would > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > from > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend > to > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. > Anything, > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It > is > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in > new > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > 20th > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself > in > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and > every > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in > finding > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > > > Pheeta Ram > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 15:55:41 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 15:55:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CBI to approach Supreme Court against terrorist Yasin Malik Message-ID: CBI may seek vacation of stay on Yasin Malik trial Sep 16th, 2010 - PRAMOD KUMAR Link - http://www.asianage.com/india/cbi-may-seek-vacation-stay-yasin-malik-trial-080 The CBI may approach the Supreme Court seeking vacation of stay on the trial against separatist leader Yasin Malik in connection with Rubaiya Sayeed kidnapping case and killing of four Indian Air Force officers in Jammu and Kashmir in 1989. The high court of Jammu and Kashmir had earlier stayed the trial against Malik in the Tada court in Jammu. It may be recalled that Rubaiya Sayeed, daughter of former chief minister of J&K, was kidnapped when she was returning home in a local mini bus on December 8, 1989. She was kidnapped by members of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF). The kidnappers had demanded the release of five of their comrades in exchange for Rubaiya’s release. The government accepted their demands and freed the jailed terrorists. Malik, chairman of the JKLF, is accused of masterminding the Rubaiya Sayeed kidnapping case. The CBI also investigated killing of four Indian Air Force officers in 1989 in J&K allegedly by JKLF members in which Malik is one of the accused. Both cases involving Malik were heard in Tada court in Jammu. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 20:07:14 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:07:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Game-plan of Kashmir 'Protests' Exposed - M. Saleem Pandit, The Times of India Message-ID: *A 3-IN-1 STATE? * DESCENT INTO CHAOS When it’s Kashmir, look beyond the obvious. The swirling street protests began not — as popular perception would have it — because of a stone-pelter’s death this June 11. They were conceived in Srinagar Central Jail as far back as 2008 M Saleem Pandit | TNN *Link - http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=CAP/2010/09/16&PageLabel=15&EntityId=Ar01500&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T * The three-month strife in Kashmir has its seeds not in the accidental death of 17-year-old Tufail Mattoo — hit by a teargas canister during stone-pelting at Rajouri Kadal on June 11. The incident, in itself, has been the visual that appeared to have launched a thousand protests. But behind the spiraling violence that’s killed 91 people is a script that’s still moving to plan. In fact, it’s a script penned at a meeting between two radical Muslim leaders, Masarat Alam Bhat of the Muslim League and Qasim Faktoo of Jamait-ul-Mujahideen, in Srinagar Central Jail in 2008. This meeting took place in a distinct Kashmiri political context. In search of an elusive acceptability within Kashmir’s radical political space, mainstream state politicians, even if they did not encourage the separatists, allowed their movements to grow uninhibited. They did not heed intelligence reports that radical Islamist icons like Syed Ali Shah Geelani, Asiya Andrabi and Masarat Alam were growing and propagating Talibanism in the state by striving to bring the entire population on their side in the name of religion. Masarat, arrested in 2008 for triggering, along with Geelani, the Amarnath land row, and Qasim Faktoo, alias Ashiq Hussain Faktoo, serving life imprisonment for killing human rights activist H N Wanchoo, together conspired to consolidate the scattered cadres of the various militant groups using mobile phones. Their agents outside the jail distributed propaganda material like CDs and audio tapes of jihadi songs smuggled from Pakistan to mosques across the Valley, to tap into the frustrations of young Kashmiri boys, educated but largely unemployed, and without direction. Meticulous in their planning, Musarat and Qasim placed their trusted men in sensitive places across the Valley to execute their brief of reviving the azadi sentiment among people: From unlettered housewives in rural pockets to tech-savvy youth through social networking sites. Right after the J&K high court released Musarat in June — after quashing the Public Safety Act pressed against him — he and his aides intensified the process he had launched with Qasim from the jail. His first act was announcing ‘“Quit Kashmir’’ movement with a weeklong protest calendar on June 24. Although Alam is now underground, he pops up to give sermons in mosques and paints his secessionist ideology in Islamic colour by proclaiming ‘‘azadi means Islam’’. So how did the Kashmiri political class fall for this trap? Between 2002-05, when PDP’s Mufti Mohammed Sayeed was the chief minister, while trying to keep his tenure spotless on the law and order front and, literally, purchasing peace, he provided financial support to hardliners. His “soft” approach — perhaps the Mufti thought he could coopt them with sops — saw his government sponsoring Geelani’s treatment for cancer in Mumbai. While such stratagems helped Mufti marginalize his arch-enemy Farooq Abdullah, these also eventually resulted in separatists getting a free run across the Valley. In 2005, Congress’s Ghulam Nabi Azad became the CM under the rotational arrangement with PDP, and the militants’ agenda was put on the backburner. Azad also questioned the separatists in public meetings. However, the Congress-PDP alliance lost the 2008 elections, which brought Omar to the fore. The new chief minister, who had the option of choosing between the Mufti and Azad line, settled for the former’s — that treated militancy with kid gloves. He allowed the separatists to grow as long as they did not harm his political interests. Giving them space to call for frequent strikes and protests across Kashmir, Omar, too, ended up raising his voice for a “political solution” to the Kashmir issue. While insisting on withdrawal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, Omar embarrassed Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi by announcing in a speech in Anantnag last year that ‘‘Kashmir was a political problem’’. He was trying to pitch the National Conference’s ‘‘greater autonomy’’ proposal against Mufti’s ‘‘self-rule’’ formula — both tinged with separatism. This encouraged the separatists to stridently demand azadi. Also, both Mufti and Omar demoralised the police by sermonizing top officers on the need for restraint, giving radicals the much-needed political breathing space. In the last three months, J&K police have been targets of both the rowdies on the streets and the establishment led by Omar. Last week, Omar allowed Hurriyat’s Mirwaiz Umar Farooq to divert the Eid congregation at Eidgah in old city to downtown Lal Chowk to raise anti-India and pro-azadi slogans which culminated in arson and plunder. The authorities even withdrew the police and CRPF men to allow free passage to the 5,000-strong mob that turned violent on Eid. NC’s law minister Ali Mohammed Sagar slammed the police and CRPF for taking on the street rowdies. A senior police officer, who doesn’t want to be named, said Omar’s ministers are insisting on releasing the arrested stone-pelters. A senior cop in Budgam was told by a minister to set free a trouble-making Geelani man in Peerbagh, Srinagar. Another senior policeman said a minister directed him to call off the hunt for a stone-pelter in Nowhatta, Srinagar. ‘‘The stone-pelter later threatened to harm me for daring to search for him,’’ the officer said. ** From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 20:30:29 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:30:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] intitution of an old man:about Kashmir Message-ID: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=77648&id=108929662501394#!/photo.php?pid=77648&fbid=109050059156021&id=108929662501394 please click FB to see MF Hussain's drawing 1983 done in Kashmir best is -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aliens at dataone.in Thu Sep 16 21:28:06 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:28:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <002a01cb54ec$ed296840$c77c38c0$@in> <003301cb54f7$5a0196e0$0e04c4a0$@in> Message-ID: <001001cb55b7$f4de5a20$de9b0e60$@in> There is no question of putting aside any small incident of casualties and I cannot change anybody beliefs that people like me not worrying for it. I am equally worrying for death occur at any place. Please read my sentence of argument again in bracket (attack was centered around Taj, but if the attack was carried out elsewhere of same duration and impact would also be eye catchy international attention). Attack of the same nature in any place not well-known as Taj than also would have got hype and attention. Terrorist choose the place Taj for attack is altogether different thing. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anuradha mukherjee [mailto:anu.mukh at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:48 AM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Mr Trivedi, You seem to have missed the point of my post. You repeated my own sentence to drive home a point I was already making. That the event deserved international attention because of the nature of the attack. The point I was making was that this hue and cry that took place in India was because the attack took place in Taj -- a place visited by those from the upper echelons of society, if not only the elite. Not that I endorse the killing of the elite.  In most such attacks people die on the streets -- the common man dies. And people like you brush it aside by saying "many bomb blasts take place in Guwahati", so why pay so much attention. So this time the terrorists decided to catch your attention. That is the purpose of such attacks -- to catch attention. It is this apathy of people like you that drives the frustration of people caught in such internal wars. For you Guwahati does not matter, to others CST does not matter. By the way, even Hindi media focused on CST quite late. Strangely, only the international media had even coverage of the events. Anuradha   On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Yes Anuradha, attack was centered around Taj, but if the attack was carried out elsewhere of same duration and impact would also be eye catchy international attention. May be CST was blacked out by English media but not at all by Indian media and carried CST attack coverage equally. In Guwahati bomb blast is taken place regularly unlike Mumbai so your comparison itself is irrelevant. Same as Kashmir before this recent protest, the events like disturbance/blasts/firing is regular happening in Kashmir and noticed routinely. Your sentence, ‘The entire way that the attack was carried out was completely audacious and somewhat unprecedented in India's metros” itself reflects about the attack nature and bound to catch international attention. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anuradha mukherjee [mailto:anu.mukh at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:28 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: Inder Salim; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" How does it matter Mr Trivedi, how does a man become rich? It is a matter of fact that coverage of the 26/11 attack was centered around the attack on Taj, not even on Oberoi's as much, while CST was nearly blacked out by the English television news channels. It was as if nothing happened there. And there was a feeling on the ground that it was because people who were rich were involved that so much attention was focused Taj. Around the 26/11 attack, another bomb blast had taken place in a crowded spot in Guwahati. Do you even remember it? All that said, the 26/11 attack got so much attention also because it made for compelling television - man to man gun battles on the ground. The entire way that the attack was carried out was completely audacious and somewhat unprecendented in India's metros. So there, Salman Khan is wrong in saying the coverage was hyped. The whole world was watching. Regards Anuradha   On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Can you tell how man become rich or elite? -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Dear Bipin sahib "Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny." it a very naive position , but it is a typical  "middle class man" in India who believe so. best wishes, keep it up best is On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Pheeta, > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in  news trap. I am middle class man. > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since he > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite only. > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To become > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Tapas > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. I > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event or > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of 20th > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > cathartic, i believe. > > Dear Bipin > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' situation > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your case. > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my post > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn to > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in Salman's > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must begin > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come under > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This is > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its impact > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times more > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 times > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were being > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to such > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying to > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse the > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by your > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' simmering > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > Best > > Pheeta > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and that > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his picture > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else and > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > getting hype compared to this attack. > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist attack > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more people > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier Mumbai > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and red > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of CCTV > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > regularly. > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took place > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. So, > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > attacked. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of the > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of the > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i came > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it on > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had to > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log mare > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha hai. > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid sakenge." > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > today in many newspapers. > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one another > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the Times > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to anybody. > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just because > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. We've > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one stood > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of the > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to labour > more to make my point. > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the Taj > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness so > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that the > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying that > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept of > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things around > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to reach > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i begin > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and of > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used to > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > hai.") > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) would > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk from > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend to > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. Anything, > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It is > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in new > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the 20th > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself in > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and every > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in finding > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > Pheeta Ram > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From parthaekka at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 22:15:27 2010 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 22:15:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <000301cb5431$8874d580$995e8080$@in> Message-ID: Let us say that Pakistan is involved, or not involved... Does it matter ? People are dying... Hindu and Muslim and Christian... Rs 20 above and below. And when a father or a mother dies, the child cries orphaned. That's all that matters. Are all we so lost that we can see nothing but caste or the size of the wallet? That's SICK Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Bipin ji > > Even a middle class man in India today is a part of the elite since it in > itself is very painful to become a middle class person in a country where > 77% of the population earns less than Rs. 20 per day. > > For once, Salman is right that it's the elite which got more focus than the > poor during the attacks. The migrants from Bihar got less attention than > the > elites on the Taj. > > The problem is not that Salman has said that. The problem is that Salman > says Pakistan is not at all involved in the attack. And I have my doubts on > that. > > > Rakesh > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Can you tell what you believe to become rich. You might be keeping > > politicians in mind who become elite by mal practices. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM > > To: reader-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > Dear Bipin sahib > > > > "Man becomes rich with our own > > > intellectual hard work along with destiny." > > > > it a very naive position , but it is a typical "middle class man" in > > India who believe so. > > > > best wishes, keep it up > > > > best > > is > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > > Dear Pheeta, > > > > > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in news trap. I am middle class man. > > > > > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since > > he > > > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite > > only. > > > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > > > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > > > > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To > > become > > > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > > > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > > > To: Bipin Trivedi > > > Cc: sarai-list > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > > > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > > > Dear Tapas > > > > > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of > people. > > I > > > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i > think, > > > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or > event > > or > > > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art > form]. > > > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of > > 20th > > > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai > elites > > > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast > it > > > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > > > cathartic, i believe. > > > > > > Dear Bipin > > > > > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' > > situation > > > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined > or > > > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times > has > > > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your > > case. > > > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my > > post > > > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn > > to > > > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in > > Salman's > > > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > > > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > > > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > > > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing the loss of > human > > > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must > > begin > > > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > > > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come > > under > > > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > > > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This > > is > > > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its > > impact > > > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times > > more > > > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 > > times > > > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were > > being > > > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > > > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > > > > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to > > such > > > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just > trying > > to > > > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse > > the > > > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > > > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > > > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by > > your > > > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class > is > > > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its > parasitism. > > > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get > any > > > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by > the > > > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' > > simmering > > > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > > > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > > > > > Best > > > > > > Pheeta > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > > wrote: > > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > > because > > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > > We've > > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > > stood > > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up > because > > > they were scared for their own lives." > > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and > > that > > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his > > picture > > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing > else > > and > > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim > not > > > getting hype compared to this attack. > > > > > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more > since > > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist > > attack > > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more > > people > > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier > > Mumbai > > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and > > red > > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also > and > > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of > > CCTV > > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > > > regularly. > > > > > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took > > place > > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype > only. > > So, > > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > > > attacked. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > > > To: sarai list > > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 > > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi > Times, > > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on > the > > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of > > the > > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of > > the > > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > > came > > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited > it > > on > > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had > > to > > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log > > mare > > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha > > hai. > > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon > ko > > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > > sakenge." > > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then > but > > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite > himself, > > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made > headlines > > > today in many newspapers. > > > > > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one > > another > > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the > > Times > > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to > > anybody. > > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > > because > > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > > We've > > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > > stood > > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up > because > > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text > of > > the > > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" > particularly, > > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to > > labour > > > more to make my point. > > > > > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify > the > > Taj > > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. > Some > > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness > > so > > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion > (that > > the > > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there > was > > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying > > that > > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept > > of > > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > > around > > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > > reach > > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i > > begin > > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society > and > > of > > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility. (My guru used > to > > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti > chakhti > > > hai.") > > > > > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' > point > > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > > would > > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > > from > > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic > essentialism' > > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend > > to > > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. > > Anything, > > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It > > is > > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an > academic > > > from the world of an activist which is solely defined by the 'ethics > of > > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in > > new > > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > > 20th > > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find > yourself > > in > > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and > > every > > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a > jelly > > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in > > finding > > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > > > > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > > > > > Pheeta Ram > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > > in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From aliens at dataone.in Fri Sep 17 09:45:20 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:45:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" In-Reply-To: References: <001901cb5366$f86a5980$e93f0c80$@in> <002901cb5428$b89b6d90$29d248b0$@in> <000301cb5431$8874d580$995e8080$@in> Message-ID: <002401cb561e$f2bb4d40$d831e7c0$@in> Sorry to tell Partha, but what a rubbish statement “Pak involved or not involved ..does it matter” Since years for all the terrorists death Pak is the main culprit and totally responsible for all these death for which you, me and we all are worried. By this statement you try to give clean chit to Pak indirectly. By mentioning dying Hindu/Muslim/Christian are dying, you yourself make casteism. Instead you would have written human beings are dying. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: Partha Dasgupta [mailto:parthaekka at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 10:15 PM To: Rakesh Iyer Cc: Bipin Trivedi; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" Let us say that Pakistan is involved, or not involved... Does it matter ? People are dying... Hindu and Muslim and Christian... Rs 20 above and below. And when a father or a mother dies, the child cries orphaned. That's all that matters. Are all we so lost that we can see nothing but caste or the size of the wallet? That's SICK Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: Dear Bipin ji Even a middle class man in India today is a part of the elite since it in itself is very painful to become a middle class person in a country where 77% of the population earns less than Rs. 20 per day. For once, Salman is right that it's the elite which got more focus than the poor during the attacks. The migrants from Bihar got less attention than the elites on the Taj. The problem is not that Salman has said that. The problem is that Salman says Pakistan is not at all involved in the attack. And I have my doubts on that. Rakesh On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Can you tell what you believe to become rich. You might be keeping > politicians in mind who become elite by mal practices. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > Dear Bipin sahib > > "Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny." > > it a very naive position , but it is a typical  "middle class man" in > India who believe so. > > best wishes, keep it up > > best > is > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > Dear Pheeta, > > > > Neither I am elite nor fallen in  news trap. I am middle class man. > > > > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since > he > > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite > only. > > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like > > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so? > > > > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To > become > > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own > > intellectual hard work along with destiny. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi > > Cc: sarai-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to > > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > Dear Tapas > > > > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of people. > I > > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i think, > > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or event > or > > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art form]. > > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of > 20th > > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites > > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it > > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was > > cathartic, i believe. > > > > Dear Bipin > > > > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both' > situation > > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or > > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has > > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your > case. > > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my > post > > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn > to > > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in > Salman's > > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in > > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not > > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family > > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human > > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must > begin > > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News > > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come > under > > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will > > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This > is > > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its > impact > > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times > more > > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250 > times > > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were > being > > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of > > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'. > > > > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to > such > > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying > to > > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse > the > > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my > > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully > > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by > your > > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is > > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its parasitism. > > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get any > > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by the > > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred' > simmering > > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class > > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of! > > > > Best > > > > Pheeta > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." > > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and > that > > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his > picture > > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else > and > > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim not > > getting hype compared to this attack. > > > > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more since > > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist > attack > > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more > people > > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of > > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier > Mumbai > > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties > > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and > red > > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their > > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and > > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of > CCTV > > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media > > regularly. > > > > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took > place > > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only. > So, > > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were > > attacked. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM > > To: sarai list > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 > > because THE ELITE WERE HIT" > > > > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi Times, > > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the > > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of > the > > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of > the > > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i > came > > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it > on > > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and > > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had > to > > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log > mare > > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha > hai. > > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon ko > > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid > sakenge." > > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then but > > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself, > > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made headlines > > today in many newspapers. > > > > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one > another > > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the > Times > > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling > > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to > anybody. > > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just > because > > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up. > We've > > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one > stood > > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because > > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of > the > > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted" particularly, > > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to > labour > > more to make my point. > > > > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national > > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the > Taj > > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra. Some > > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness > so > > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that > the > > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was > > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying > that > > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as > > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept > of > > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things > around > > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to > reach > > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to > > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them > > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to > > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i > begin > > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society and > of > > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used to > > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste > > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti > > hai.") > > > > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point > > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible) > would > > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk > from > > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic essentialism' > > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend > to > > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly > > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always > > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions. > Anything, > > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It > is > > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic > > from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics of > > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in > new > > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the > 20th > > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself > in > > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their > > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and > every > > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo > > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly > > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in > finding > > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!" > > > > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion. > > > > Pheeta Ram > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anivar at movingrepublic.org Fri Sep 17 09:48:32 2010 From: anivar at movingrepublic.org (Anivar Aravind) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:48:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KOVALAM ARTIFICIAL REEF: GROUPS DEMAND JUDICIAL ENQUIRY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *MEDIA RELEASE* *Kerala Swatanthra Matsya Thozhilali Federation & Kerala Tourism Watch* *KOVALAM ARTIFICIAL REEF: GROUPS DEMAND JUDICIAL ENQUIRY* *16**th** September 2010,**Thiruvananthapuram: *Kerala Independent Fish Workers Federation (KSMTF) and Kerala Tourism Watch demands from the Government of India and the State Government, a comprehensive judicial and scientific enquiry, as well as a social audit to analyze the failed aspects and evaluate the overall process of the Artificial Reef in Kovalam. The Reef has proven itself to be a failure in Kerala, however, more reefs are being planned in India using Asian Development Bank (ADB) and World Bank funds in other states like Goa, Maharashtra, Karnataka etc, majority of which are tourism hotspots. The ongoing washing up of geo-textile bags, the key component of the reef, to Kovalam and nearby sea shores, starting two weeks after its inauguration is a serious cause of worry. Diversion of `8 crores of Tsunami Rehabilitation funds provided by the Planning Commission, Government of India, meant for coastal communities was wasted on tourism infrastructure while Tsunami affected communities’ need for rehabilitation still waits to be addressed. The multipurpose reef implemented under the disguise of promoting fisheries, coastal protection, tranquillity for fishery activity and tourism potential has proved to be an irony. The fishermen expressed their concern that shore seine fishing nets were yielding damaged portions of the artificial reef rather than the increased fish resources promised to them. At the same time the New Zealand based MNC, ASR Limited is engaged in aggressive propaganda and lobbying for more reefs, highlighting the Kovalam artificial reef as an undisputable model. The Kerala Tourism department is also providing the much needed fodder to their campaign by publishing reports that act as advertising manuals for the company. The Kerala Tourism or officials within the department, seem to have taken up the mandate of promoting this company as part of their tourism promotion agenda. It is interesting to note that both the department and ASR groups do not talk about the portions of the reefs being washed ashore. The project itself was granted to ASR using a single tender process in which the technical bid was evaluated by the then Tourism Director and director of Centre for Earth Science Studies (CESS), Thiruvananthapuram. While the technical expertise of the tourism director is questionable, the director of CESS has been associated with ASR at various levels. No Environment Impact Assessment (EIA), Social Impact Assessment (SIA) and Fisheries Impact Assessment were insisted on for such a major geo-physical intervention. The initial project proposal was for 3000 m3 and cost `4 crores .The project received a facelift midway, where its volume increases by a mere 1000 m3while the cost doubled to `8 crores. The calculation in its absurdity has been approved by the concerned government agencies. These facts lead us to look at the whole deal with suspicion. A judicial enquiry is needed to expose the unholy nexus between bureaucrats, scientists and MNCs for using public money with vested interests. ASR Ltd had been lobbying to get the reef project done in Kerala for quite some time. The Coastal Marine Task Force of the Planning Board, Kerala Government earlier rejected the proposal for artificial reefs in Kerala. However the Kerala Tourism Department had no inhibitions in approving the same project using Tsunami funds. Information sought through Right To Information Act regarding the project details have been denied. The Kerala Tourism department takes a comical stand here by providing no information on their award winning web site about the publicly relevant information, at the same time pushing subjective, opiniated and misleading reports promoting the reef. This lack of transparency and accountability clearly projects itself through these actions. ASR has recently been part of the group who prepared a “Sustainable Coastal Protection and Management Project Report” worth thousands of crores, suggesting reefs as a major portion of the solution for coastal protection/restoration and management in coastal areas of the country. As a seemingly strategic move, in this Report, CESS has been mentioned as a key institution in the field of coastal environment and engineering. The recent artificial reef in UK, the first of its kind in Europe, created by ASR Ltd. is receiving much brickbats for not yielding the promised results. The area council has withheld a portion of the money payable to ASR limited and has conducted an enquiry to review the reef because of its ineffectiveness. It is interesting to note that the cost estimate even in this case was escalated mid-way through the project. In these contexts Government of India’s efforts to borrow money from ADB and World Bank for constructing artificial reefs as a coastal protection measure has to be withdrawn at this stage. The government should stop following such capital intensive and ineffective models. As civil society groups we also demand full transparency from the Kerala Tourism department. Therefore we call for a comprehensive judicial enquiry and a transparent social audit to evaluate the reef. For more information please contact: *www.keralarourismwatch.org* Name Contact Number E-mail Ravindran Nair, Former Joint Director, Department of Fisheries 9447974903 *ravinairs at gmail.com* Sanjeev Ghosh, Former Additional Director, Department of Fisheries 9447957408 *sanjeevaghosh at gmail.com* *sanjeevaghosh at yahoo.com* Advocate Sandhya, Lawyer with Human Rights Law Network 9847032397 *kandalilsandhya at yahoo.com* V. B. Ajayan, RIGHTS 9895500717 *ajaydalit at gmail.com* Dr. K. Soman, Former Scientist, CESS 9847083000 T. Peter, President, KSMTF) 9447429243 *peter.ksmtf at gmail.com* K. C. Sreekumar, President, Theeradesha Samrakshana Samiti, Allapad 94477985909 Anto Elias, Secretary, KSMTF 9656860402 -- "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth -- "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 10:59:51 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:59:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Islamism=92s_rage_boys_-_Premen_Ad?= =?windows-1252?q?dy?= Message-ID: *Islamism’s rage boys* *September 17, 2010 10:59:46 AM* *Premen Addy* *Link* - http://www.dailypioneer.com/283635/Islamism%E2%80%99s-rage-boys.html *It doesn't require genius to bring Kashmir’s jihadis to heel; a firm hand will do. Remember Shakespeare's words: Be bloody, bold and resolute* Fellow travellers of causes Left and Right have long been a political hazard. The occupant of the British throne, Edward VIII, was a Hitler sympathiser; other exalted Britons were under Mussolini’s spell because the Duce made Italy’s “trains run on time”. The eminent Cambridge economist Joan Robinson uttered rhapsodies to Chairman Mao’s Great Leap Forward and People’s Communes. She wrote a Penguin eulogy to the Cultural Revolution. Just before her death, Prof Robinson remarked plaintively that she had no understanding of China, Beijing having invaded Vietnam, in February 1979, “to teach it a lesson as India had been taught a lesson in 1962”. Things fell apart for a distinguished intellect. The blood-dimmed tides were loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence was drowned, as credible stories of a tragedy without parallel in human history began to emerge. Frank Dikotter’s deeply researched tome — *Mao’s Great Famine: The History of China’s Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-62*estimates that 45 million people perished during those bitter years. Today, sections of the British media, including the *BBC*, and a gaggle of Left-wing activists are, like many useful idiots before them, apologists, this time for Islamism and its burden of victimhood. They believe they are befriending the underdog. In the aftermath of the London bombings of July 7, 2005, *The Times’s *Europe Correspondent, Anthony Browne, fired this broadside: “Islamic radicals, like Hitler, cultivate support by nurturing grievances against others. Islamists, like Hitler scapegoat Jews for their problems and want to destroy them... Hitler divided the world into Aryans and sub-human non-Aryans, while Islamists divide the world into Muslims and sub-human infidels. Nazis aimed for their Thousand Year Reich, while Islamists aim for their eternal Caliphate. The Nazi party used terror to achieve power, and from London to Amsterdam, Bali to New York (and Mumbai)... Islamists are trying to do the same... Even post-bombing, Britain has a long way to go in its understanding of Islamic fascism. The tragedy is that we start daring to understand it only when innocent lives are lost.” These words should constitute a warning to the Indian establishment in their ritual hunts for the philosopher’s stone of political correctness even as the barbarians muster at the Kashmiri gate. VP Menon, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel’s principal aide, apropos of the Pakistan-sponsored Pathan invasion of the Kashmir valley in October 1947, wrote of centuries-old descents into India of marauders from Central Asia. The first thing the new Islamic state of Pakistan had done was to repeat the exercise: Srinagar today, Delhi tomorrow, he warned. A nation that forgets its history and its geography will be condemned to suffer the fraught experience of its past. India cannot be afraid of its own shadow, concluded this wise servant of state, whose ripe wisdom India’s present guardians will ignore at their (and the country’s) peril. Kashmir’s separatist *jihadis* have issued a primordial challenge to the Government in New Delhi: Their goal is the creation of an Islamic state complete with *sharia’h:* Death by stoning, beheadings, floggings, amputations and much else to follow in due course, including the mandatory * burqa*. The exalted musings of the Persian Sufi poet Rumi have not prevented the appearance of an Ayatollah-ruled Iran, so be warned. Hallucinogenic twaddle about human rights and governance is an opiate to dull the pain of Kashmir’s ultimate severance from the Indian body politic. A disingenuous BBC radio programme involving the Corporation’s Srinagar stringer Altaf Hussain and anchor Julian Marshal was notable for stock cliches, elisions and evasions and myriad economies with the truth. Burning Christian schools and Government buildings are presumably an accepted spectator sport; police retaliation is an un-constitutional response. No mention was made of the ethnic cleansing of Kashmir’s Hindu Pandit community — theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die. Amy Kazmin, the *Financial Times *Delhi-based correspondent, wrote sourly of “*de facto* Army rule in Kashmir”, among a multitude of other Indian failings compared to the striking successes of the Chinese, Herrenvolk associates of the West. For an antidote and restorative turn to Fidel Castro, who told his *Atlantic * magazine interviewer Jeffrey Goldberg that the Iranian Government should understand the consequences of theological anti-Semitism. “I don’t think anyone has been slandered as much as the Jews. I would say much more than the Muslims... they (the Jews) are blamed and slandered for everything. No one blames the Muslims for anything. The Jews have lived an existence that is much harder than ours. There is nothing that compares with the Holocaust,” said Fidel. The late Nahum Goldman, Jewish patriarch extraordinary, in a newspaper article in 1979, a few years prior to his death, referred to the generosity of democratic and Communist nations towards the Jewish people after the defeat of Nazi Germany. He wrote: “To illustrate this, I quote the talk which Benes (the Czech leader and former President) had, on Chaim Weizmann’s (first President of Israel) and my request, with Stalin during the Second World War, asking for Russian support of a Jewish state. Stalin then answered him: ‘We know what the Jews suffered during the war and we will do our best to repair it’. ” And so it came to pass that the USSR voted for the creation of the state of Israel at the United Nations in November 1949. There is no good reason for Left-wing amnesia. At the conclusion of a recent visit to Russia, the Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak told his hosts in Moscow: “We know the truth: The state of Israel would not exist if the Red Army had not defeated fascist Germany.” Russia and Israel have signed a landmark defence accord. Such news items do not as a rule find favour with Western agencies. The writer and journalist Patrick Cockburn, a man of the Left, as it happens, writes: “The persecution of Christian communities across the Muslim world has escalated rapidly since the start of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.” The Christian population in West Asia has declined, he said. Mr Cockburn related the horrific case of a Pakistani Christian family, in the Punjabi town of Gojra, burned to death on the false rumour that that a local man had set fire to a copy of the Quran. Zaid Hamid, a Pakistani defence analyst, much given to ranting at Zionist-Hindu conspiracies on television, roared recently of Pakistani nuclear retaliation against Israel and India, should either nation dare attack Pakistan. With floods and suicide bombers wreaking havoc, why should any country wish to undertake this unnecessary expense? “A whiff of grapeshot” was Napoleon’s prescription for unruly mobs. It doesn’t require genius to bring the Kashmir jihadis to heel, a firm hand will do. Remember Shakespeare’s words: “Be bloody, bold and resolute.” From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 11:06:56 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:06:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement Message-ID: Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new generation of jihadists is being forged. Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his grocery store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures —rolling up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash till — was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition spearheading the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani had opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a bunch of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being beaten but did nothing. Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. It ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness to make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when the Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military outposts, will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists seek: for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are being forged. Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records of Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written while he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, gives some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand pointed to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate sense of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill task of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by any authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political leadership at all'.” “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.” Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — and drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to the “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid Dar declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about building a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had led to the failure of the jihad. Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the *Rudad-e-Qafas*, he castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and Kashmir's future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the armed force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. Geelani even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of Muslim prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused permission to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of political supremacy.” >From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight India's growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the most important figure in the new Islamic coalition. Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the next year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties Hurriyat Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who had been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor prospects. Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on [the] international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations to achieve the right to self-determination.” But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a new political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious duties, character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to “safeguard the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims about the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the welfare of the people.” Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights campaigner H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to shaping Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings of the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led into the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided over the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad Farooq — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. >From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — the al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to the companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de guerre* of Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of the nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, an organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television programming. Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against the grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to the streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for the enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and human rights abuses by Indian security forces. In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: “‘Brave Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the time has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces as true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered the call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of terrorism, they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting ‘Indian dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's end, at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.” Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. From kaksanjay at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 11:13:28 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:13:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers alerting us in advance? Best Sanjay On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu > > Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece > > Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new > generation of jihadists is being forged. > > Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his grocery > store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures —rolling > up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash till — > was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. > > Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition spearheading > the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police > this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani had > opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani > saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a bunch > of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with > reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being > beaten but did nothing. > > Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. It > ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness to > make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when the > Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military outposts, > will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists seek: > for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of > jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are > being forged. > > Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records of > Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written while > he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, gives > some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. > > In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand pointed > to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and > Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership > and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate sense > of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill task > of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the > movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political > leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by any > authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political > leadership at all'.” > > “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the > demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting > against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.” > > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the > publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the > Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — and > drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to the > “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid Dar > declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the > Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat > moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. > Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's > Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a > commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” > > Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about building > a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had led > to the failure of the jihad. > > Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India > posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the *Rudad-e-Qafas*, he > castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and Kashmir's > future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the armed > force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism > from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. Geelani > even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of Muslim > prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused permission > to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of > political supremacy.” > > From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight India's > growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, > activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad > Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the most > important figure in the new Islamic coalition. > > Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in > Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri > Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in > October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent > jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and > began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the next > year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties Hurriyat > Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who had > been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor prospects. > > Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, > “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to > fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; > traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” > > Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as > such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the > “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on [the] > international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations to > achieve the right to self-determination.” > > But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a new > political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious duties, > character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to “safeguard > the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims about > the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the > path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist > “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of > various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the welfare > of the people.” > > Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights campaigner > H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to shaping > Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic > studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings of > the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's > Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led into > the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided over > the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad Farooq > — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In > 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, > broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its > linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. > > From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new > generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — the > al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of > officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to the > companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de guerre* of > Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of the > nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, an > organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. > > Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed > Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree in > biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from > leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of > religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television > programming. > > Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against the > grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a > communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to the > streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the > course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for the > enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and > human rights abuses by Indian security forces. > > In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first > uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: “‘Brave > Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout > Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the time > has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces as > true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered the > call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of terrorism, > they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting ‘Indian > dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security > forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's end, > at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death > count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.” > > Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 11:18:50 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:18:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wish you could read the name of MASARAT ALAM BHAT. Interestingly and quite shamelessly, Masarat got the very branch of the school burned where he himself was educated. Tyndale Biscoe School, Tangamarg. Unfortunately, educated to kill masses and take the valley hostage to Islamist fundamentalism. They have now given a call to Tangamarg and attack all army barracks. Sad mindset. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a > prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? > Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers > alerting us in advance? > Best > Sanjay > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu > > > > Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece > > > > Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new > > generation of jihadists is being forged. > > > > Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his > grocery > > store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures > —rolling > > up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash > till — > > was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. > > > > Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition > spearheading > > the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police > > this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani > had > > opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani > > saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a > bunch > > of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with > > reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being > > beaten but did nothing. > > > > Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. > It > > ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness > to > > make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when > the > > Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military > outposts, > > will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists > seek: > > for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of > > jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are > > being forged. > > > > Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records > of > > Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written > while > > he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, > gives > > some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. > > > > In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand > pointed > > to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and > > Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership > > and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate > sense > > of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill > task > > of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the > > movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political > > leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by > any > > authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political > > leadership at all'.” > > > > “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the > > demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting > > against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.” > > > > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the > > publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the > > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the > > Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — > and > > drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to > the > > “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid > Dar > > declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the > > Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat > > moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. > > Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's > > Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a > > commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” > > > > Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about > building > > a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had > led > > to the failure of the jihad. > > > > Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India > > posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the *Rudad-e-Qafas*, > he > > castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and > Kashmir's > > future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the > armed > > force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism > > from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. > Geelani > > even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of > Muslim > > prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused > permission > > to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of > > political supremacy.” > > > > From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight > India's > > growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, > > activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad > > Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the > most > > important figure in the new Islamic coalition. > > > > Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in > > Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri > > Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in > > October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent > > jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and > > began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the > next > > year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties > Hurriyat > > Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who > had > > been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor > prospects. > > > > Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, > > “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to > > fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; > > traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” > > > > Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as > > such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the > > “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on > [the] > > international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations > to > > achieve the right to self-determination.” > > > > But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a > new > > political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious > duties, > > character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to > “safeguard > > the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims > about > > the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the > > path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist > > “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of > > various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the > welfare > > of the people.” > > > > Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights > campaigner > > H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to > shaping > > Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic > > studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings > of > > the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's > > Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led > into > > the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided > over > > the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad > Farooq > > — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In > > 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, > > broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its > > linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. > > > > From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new > > generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — > the > > al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of > > officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to > the > > companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de guerre* > of > > Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of > the > > nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, > an > > organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. > > > > Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed > > Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree > in > > biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from > > leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of > > religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television > > programming. > > > > Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against > the > > grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a > > communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to > the > > streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the > > course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for > the > > enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and > > human rights abuses by Indian security forces. > > > > In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first > > uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: > “‘Brave > > Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout > > Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the > time > > has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces > as > > true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered > the > > call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of > terrorism, > > they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting > ‘Indian > > dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security > > forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's > end, > > at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death > > count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.” > > > > Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Sep 17 11:48:24 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 06:18:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1762244467-1284704153-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2144277753-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Aditya, Your utterly shameless capacity to lie and spread misinformation truly amazes me. The person who led tbe mob that torched the Tangmarg branch of Tyndale Biscoe school is NOT Masarrat Alam. It is Ali Mohammed Sofi an National Conference politician and stooge of the Indian occupation. The Hurriyat (G), with which Alam is associated squarely condemned this horrible incident of arson. I have written about all of this in my. Last poszting here. Refrain from abusing the list to spread lies. Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Aditya Raj Kaul Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:18:50 To: sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement Wish you could read the name of MASARAT ALAM BHAT. Interestingly and quite shamelessly, Masarat got the very branch of the school burned where he himself was educated. Tyndale Biscoe School, Tangamarg. Unfortunately, educated to kill masses and take the valley hostage to Islamist fundamentalism. They have now given a call to Tangamarg and attack all army barracks. Sad mindset. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a > prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? > Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers > alerting us in advance? > Best > Sanjay > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu > > > > Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece > > > > Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new > > generation of jihadists is being forged. > > > > Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his > grocery > > store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures > —rolling > > up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash > till — > > was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. > > > > Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition > spearheading > > the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police > > this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani > had > > opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani > > saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a > bunch > > of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with > > reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being > > beaten but did nothing. > > > > Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. > It > > ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness > to > > make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when > the > > Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military > outposts, > > will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists > seek: > > for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of > > jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are > > being forged. > > > > Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records > of > > Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written > while > > he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, > gives > > some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. > > > > In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand > pointed > > to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and > > Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership > > and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate > sense > > of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill > task > > of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the > > movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political > > leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by > any > > authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political > > leadership at all'.” > > > > “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the > > demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting > > against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.” > > > > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the > > publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the > > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the > > Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — > and > > drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to > the > > “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid > Dar > > declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the > > Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat > > moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. > > Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's > > Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a > > commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” > > > > Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about > building > > a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had > led > > to the failure of the jihad. > > > > Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India > > posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the *Rudad-e-Qafas*, > he > > castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and > Kashmir's > > future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the > armed > > force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism > > from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. > Geelani > > even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of > Muslim > > prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused > permission > > to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of > > political supremacy.” > > > > From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight > India's > > growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, > > activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad > > Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the > most > > important figure in the new Islamic coalition. > > > > Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in > > Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri > > Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in > > October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent > > jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and > > began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the > next > > year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties > Hurriyat > > Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who > had > > been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor > prospects. > > > > Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, > > “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to > > fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; > > traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” > > > > Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as > > such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the > > “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on > [the] > > international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations > to > > achieve the right to self-determination.” > > > > But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a > new > > political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious > duties, > > character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to > “safeguard > > the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims > about > > the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the > > path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist > > “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of > > various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the > welfare > > of the people.” > > > > Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights > campaigner > > H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to > shaping > > Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic > > studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings > of > > the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's > > Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led > into > > the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided > over > > the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad > Farooq > > — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In > > 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, > > broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its > > linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. > > > > From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new > > generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — > the > > al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of > > officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to > the > > companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de guerre* > of > > Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of > the > > nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, > an > > organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. > > > > Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed > > Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree > in > > biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from > > leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of > > religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television > > programming. > > > > Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against > the > > grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a > > communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to > the > > streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the > > course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for > the > > enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and > > human rights abuses by Indian security forces. > > > > In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first > > uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: > “‘Brave > > Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout > > Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the > time > > has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces > as > > true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered > the > > call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of > terrorism, > > they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting > ‘Indian > > dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security > > forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's > end, > > at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death > > count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.” > > > > Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 12:43:06 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 12:43:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement In-Reply-To: <1762244467-1284704153-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2144277753-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> References: <1762244467-1284704153-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2144277753-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Shuddha, You aren't even ashamed to defend a killer, a monster in every sense of the term. Shame on your attitude. Please correct your facts. Masarat Alam doesn't lead any mob, but he is in hiding. He is operating from a control room with network spread all over. Wake up to this reality. Not just this school, but an adjacent church and a temple at Nai Basti, Khanabal, Anantnag were even set ablaze by Islamist mob. Refrain from forcing your half-truths on members who are now well aware of the intentions of these separatists who are instigating bloodshed on the streets of Kashmir. Even their paid agents in Delhi are exposed. Aditya Raj Kaul On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:48 AM, wrote: > Aditya, > > Your utterly shameless capacity to lie and spread misinformation truly > amazes me. The person who led tbe mob that torched the Tangmarg branch of > Tyndale Biscoe school is NOT Masarrat Alam. It is Ali Mohammed Sofi an > National Conference politician and stooge of the Indian occupation. The > Hurriyat (G), with which Alam is associated squarely condemned this horrible > incident of arson. I have written about all of this in my. Last poszting > here. Refrain from abusing the list to spread lies. > Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:18:50 > To: sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement > > Wish you could read the name of MASARAT ALAM BHAT. > > Interestingly and quite shamelessly, Masarat got the very branch of the > school burned where he himself was educated. Tyndale Biscoe School, > Tangamarg. > > Unfortunately, educated to kill masses and take the valley hostage to > Islamist fundamentalism. > > They have now given a call to Tangamarg and attack all army barracks. > > Sad mindset. > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > > Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a > > prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? > > Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers > > alerting us in advance? > > Best > > Sanjay > > > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > wrote: > > > Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu > > > > > > Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece > > > > > > Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a > new > > > generation of jihadists is being forged. > > > > > > Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his > > grocery > > > store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures > > —rolling > > > up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash > > till — > > > was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. > > > > > > Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition > > spearheading > > > the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with > police > > > this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani > > had > > > opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls > Wani > > > saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a > > bunch > > > of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with > > > reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being > > > beaten but did nothing. > > > > > > Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be > night. > > It > > > ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of > darkness > > to > > > make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, > when > > the > > > Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military > > outposts, > > > will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists > > seek: > > > for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation > of > > > jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, > are > > > being forged. > > > > > > Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records > > of > > > Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written > > while > > > he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, > > gives > > > some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. > > > > > > In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand > > pointed > > > to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and > > > Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political > leadership > > > and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate > > sense > > > of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill > > task > > > of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the > > > movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political > > > leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered > by > > any > > > authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political > > > leadership at all'.” > > > > > > “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of > the > > > demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting > > > against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no > time.” > > > > > > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the > > > publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the > > > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the > > > Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat > — > > and > > > drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end > to > > the > > > “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid > > Dar > > > declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the > > > Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat > > > moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired > Mr. > > > Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the > Jamaat's > > > Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a > > > commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” > > > > > > Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about > > building > > > a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed > had > > led > > > to the failure of the jihad. > > > > > > Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India > > > posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the > *Rudad-e-Qafas*, > > he > > > castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and > > Kashmir's > > > future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the > > armed > > > force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu > communalism > > > from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. > > Geelani > > > even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of > > Muslim > > > prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused > > permission > > > to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination > of > > > political supremacy.” > > > > > > From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight > > India's > > > growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, > > > activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad > > > Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the > > most > > > important figure in the new Islamic coalition. > > > > > > Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied > in > > > Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the > Sri > > > Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in > > > October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the > then-prominent > > > jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 > and > > > began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the > > next > > > year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties > > Hurriyat > > > Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who > > had > > > been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor > > prospects. > > > > > > Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, > > > “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings > to > > > fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; > > > traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” > > > > > > Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, > as > > > such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the > > > “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on > > [the] > > > international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and > congregations > > to > > > achieve the right to self-determination.” > > > > > > But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a > > new > > > political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious > > duties, > > > character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to > > “safeguard > > > the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims > > about > > > the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow > the > > > path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist > > > “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of > > > various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the > > welfare > > > of the people.” > > > > > > Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights > > campaigner > > > H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to > > shaping > > > Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic > > > studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings > > of > > > the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's > > > Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led > > into > > > the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided > > over > > > the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad > > Farooq > > > — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. > In > > > 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name > Nasir-ul-Islam, > > > broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its > > > linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. > > > > > > From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new > > > generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — > > the > > > al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings > of > > > officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference > to > > the > > > companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de > guerre* > > of > > > Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons > of > > the > > > nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the > nation, > > an > > > organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. > > > > > > Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, > Sayeed > > > Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate > degree > > in > > > biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from > > > leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network > of > > > religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular > television > > > programming. > > > > > > Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against > > the > > > grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a > > > communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to > > the > > > streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the > > > course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for > > the > > > enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; > and > > > human rights abuses by Indian security forces. > > > > > > In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first > > > uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: > > “‘Brave > > > Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout > > > Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the > > time > > > has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation > forces > > as > > > true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered > > the > > > call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of > > terrorism, > > > they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting > > ‘Indian > > > dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. > Security > > > forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's > > end, > > > at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death > > > count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months > ago.” > > > > > > Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From aliens at dataone.in Fri Sep 17 21:51:26 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:51:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01cb5684$60fdf900$22f9eb00$@in> Yes, separatists planned this massive protest of course with Pak help since last few months and somehow succeeded due to lack of alertness of J&K government or may be J&K govt. knowingly keep mum. So, now it is time for tit for tat and India should plan to throw separatists out by taking some firm and fruitful steps. In this act there might be bloodbath, so that way you can tell planned bloodbath. But, now it is really time to act with iron hand without listening to any international pressure, human rights commission. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Sanjay Kak Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:13 AM To: sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers alerting us in advance? Best Sanjay On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu > > Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece > > Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new > generation of jihadists is being forged. > > Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his grocery > store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures —rolling > up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash till — > was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. > > Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition spearheading > the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police > this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani had > opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani > saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a bunch > of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with > reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being > beaten but did nothing. > > Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. It > ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness to > make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when the > Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military outposts, > will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists seek: > for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of > jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are > being forged. > > Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records of > Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written while > he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, gives > some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. > > In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand pointed > to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and > Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership > and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate sense > of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill task > of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the > movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political > leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by any > authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political > leadership at all'.” > > “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the > demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting > against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.” > > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the > publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the > Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — and > drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to the > “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid Dar > declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the > Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat > moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. > Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's > Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a > commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” > > Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about building > a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had led > to the failure of the jihad. > > Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India > posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the *Rudad-e-Qafas*, he > castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and Kashmir's > future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the armed > force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism > from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. Geelani > even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of Muslim > prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused permission > to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of > political supremacy.” > > From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight India's > growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, > activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad > Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the most > important figure in the new Islamic coalition. > > Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in > Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri > Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in > October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent > jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and > began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the next > year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties Hurriyat > Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who had > been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor prospects. > > Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, > “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to > fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; > traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” > > Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as > such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the > “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on [the] > international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations to > achieve the right to self-determination.” > > But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a new > political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious duties, > character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to “safeguard > the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims about > the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the > path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist > “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of > various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the welfare > of the people.” > > Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights campaigner > H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to shaping > Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic > studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings of > the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's > Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led into > the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided over > the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad Farooq > — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In > 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, > broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its > linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. > > From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new > generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — the > al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of > officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to the > companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de guerre* of > Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of the > nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, an > organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. > > Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed > Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree in > biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from > leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of > religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television > programming. > > Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against the > grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a > communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to the > streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the > course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for the > enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and > human rights abuses by Indian security forces. > > In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first > uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: “‘Brave > Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout > Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the time > has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces as > true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered the > call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of terrorism, > they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting ‘Indian > dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security > forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's end, > at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death > count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.” > > Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 22:07:08 2010 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:07:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Failure of artificial reef: Probe sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: By Express News Service 17 Sep 2010 12:24:31 AM IST Failure of artificial reef: Probe sought  THIRUVANATHAPURAM: Kerala Swathanthra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) and Kerala Tourism Watch have demanded a comprehensive judicial probe and scientific inquiry, as well as social audit,into the failure of the multi-purpose artificial reef in Kovalam. At a press conference here on Thursday, KSMTF president T Peter demanded a judicial probe into the diversion of Rs 8 crore of tsunami funds. “Tsunami funds meant for coastal communities were wasted on tourism infrastructure while the rehabilitation of tsunami-affected communities still waits to be addressed,” Peter said. “The Kerala Tourism officials promote ASR Limited, the New Zealand-based MNC that designed the reef in Kovalam,” he said.  “The reef has proven itself to be a failure in Kerala. However, more reefs are being planned in India using Asian Development Bank and World Bank funds in other States such as Goa, Maharashtra and Karnataka,’’ Peter said. He said the reefs were destroyed as soon as it was inaugurated. ‘’Two weeks after its inauguration, geo-textile bags, the key component of the reef washed up at Kovalam and nearby seashores. The shore seine fishing nets of Kovalam are yielding more damaged portions of the artificial reef than fish resources. “At the same time ASR Limited is engaged in aggressive propaganda and lobbying for more reefs, highlighting the Kovalam artificial reef as an indisputable model. The Kerala Tourism officials promote ASR Limited as part of their tourism promotion agenda”, Peter said. Sanjeev Ghosh, former Additional Director, Department of Fisheries, demanded a judicial inquiry to expose the unholy nexus of bureaucrats, scientists and MNCs. Ghosh said that the nexus was evident in the manner in which the project evolved over the years. The initial project proposal was for 3000 cubic metres and cost Rs 4 crore. The project received a facelift midway, where its volume increased by a third to 1,000 cubic metres while the cost doubled to Rs 8 crore.  “Strangely,” he said, “the absurd calculation had been approved by the Government agencies concerned.” The coastal Marine Task Force of the State Planning Board had earlier rejected the proposal for artificial reefs in Kerala. “However, the Tourism Department had no inhibitions about approving the same project using Tsunami funds,” Ghosh said. “These facts lead us to look at the whole thing with suspicion,” he added. K C Sreekumar, Theeradesha Samrakshana Samithi, Sajeer Abdul Rehman, member, Kerala Tourism Watch also participated in the press conference. http://www.keralafishworkers.in http://www.alakal.net From aliens at dataone.in Fri Sep 17 22:12:55 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:12:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement In-Reply-To: <600666593-1284741213-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2036941001-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> References: <000f01cb5684$60fdf900$22f9eb00$@in> <600666593-1284741213-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2036941001-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000001cb5687$6190e2d0$24b2a870$@in> Since couple of decades bloodbath is common in Kashmir and other parts of India done by separatists and Pak sponsored terrorism. Not a single word against these bloodbath creator by people like you or your blood does not turned ice these all years which is already happened, but with just thought your blood becomes ice!!! Let the readers decide from whom we have to ashamed. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: shuddha at sarai.net [mailto:shuddha at sarai.net] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 10:06 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement It is utterly disgusting that people can call for 'bloodbaths' and even 'planned bloodbaths'. My blood turns to ice when I read such thoughts. Something is rotting in the heart of the Indian nationalist imagination. It is turning vampiric. This is how tyrranies are born. A sad, sad time. Far away, Shuddha Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Bipin Trivedi Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:51:26 To: 'Sanjay Kak' Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement Yes, separatists planned this massive protest of course with Pak help since last few months and somehow succeeded due to lack of alertness of J&K government or may be J&K govt. knowingly keep mum. So, now it is time for tit for tat and India should plan to throw separatists out by taking some firm and fruitful steps. In this act there might be bloodbath, so that way you can tell planned bloodbath. But, now it is really time to act with iron hand without listening to any international pressure, human rights commission. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Sanjay Kak Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:13 AM To: sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers alerting us in advance? Best Sanjay On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu > > Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece > > Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new > generation of jihadists is being forged. > > Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his grocery > store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures —rolling > up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash till — > was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. > > Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition spearheading > the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police > this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani had > opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani > saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a bunch > of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with > reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being > beaten but did nothing. > > Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. It > ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness to > make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when the > Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military outposts, > will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists seek: > for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of > jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are > being forged. > > Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records of > Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written while > he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, gives > some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. > > In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand pointed > to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and > Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership > and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate sense > of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill task > of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the > movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political > leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by any > authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political > leadership at all'.” > > “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the > demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting > against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.” > > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the > publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the > Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — and > drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to the > “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid Dar > declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the > Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat > moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. > Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's > Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a > commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” > > Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about building > a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had led > to the failure of the jihad. > > Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India > posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the *Rudad-e-Qafas*, he > castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and Kashmir's > future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the armed > force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism > from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. Geelani > even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of Muslim > prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused permission > to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of > political supremacy.” > > From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight India's > growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, > activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad > Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the most > important figure in the new Islamic coalition. > > Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in > Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri > Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in > October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent > jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and > began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the next > year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties Hurriyat > Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who had > been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor prospects. > > Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, > “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to > fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; > traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” > > Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as > such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the > “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on [the] > international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations to > achieve the right to self-determination.” > > But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a new > political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious duties, > character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to “safeguard > the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims about > the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the > path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist > “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of > various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the welfare > of the people.” > > Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights campaigner > H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to shaping > Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic > studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings of > the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's > Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led into > the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided over > the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad Farooq > — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In > 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, > broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its > linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. > > From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new > generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — the > al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of > officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to the > companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de guerre* of > Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of the > nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, an > organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. > > Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed > Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree in > biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from > leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of > religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television > programming. > > Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against the > grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a > communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to the > streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the > course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for the > enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and > human rights abuses by Indian security forces. > > In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first > uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: “‘Brave > Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout > Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the time > has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces as > true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered the > call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of terrorism, > they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting ‘Indian > dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security > forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's end, > at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death > count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.” > > Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From drew at futureeverything.org Fri Sep 17 23:29:59 2010 From: drew at futureeverything.org (drew at futureeverything.org) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Festival Producer - Senior Posts at FutureEverything Message-ID: <50092.82.22.180.197.1284746399.squirrel@2010.futureeverything.org> FESTIVAL PRODUCER http://futureeverything.org/getinvolved FutureEverything is looking for an experienced, dynamic Festival Producer for FutureEverything 2011 Global Festival of Art, Music and Ideas and related commissions and projects. Fee: circa ¬£18,000 You will have had a least 3 years experience in producing all elements of a festival. You will be a highly motivated and organised individual with strong financial management and budget control systems. You will have human resource skills and understand all elements of producing a festival from fundraising, business development, programming, commissioning, project management, marketing, production, operational logistics and delivery. You will be proficient at working with staff, artists and clients at all levels. An interest in digital art and music would be an advantage. Please send a CV with a cover letter to job12010 at futureeverything.org highlighting your strengths and relevant experience. Deadline extended to 27th Sep 2010 - Deadline extended due to server issues. We positively welcome applications from all sectors of the community. Learn more about this post and more: http://futureeverything.org/getinvolved OPPORTUNITIES AT FUTUREEVERYTHING FutureEverything is currently recruiting for experienced professionals to join its team. Now open - Festival Producer, Comms Manager, Conference Manager, Music Manager. Coming soon - Chief Executive. http://futureeverything.org/getinvolved CALLS FOR ENTRIES - AWARD & FESTIVAL See also calls for entries to ¬£10,000 FutureEverything Award plus to FutureEverything 2011 Festival. http://www.futureeverything.org From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Sep 18 00:48:57 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:18:57 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement References: Message-ID: <40B87B6839264E2599B3233C5C5F14F6@tara> If Sanjay and Shuddha's mails were to go by, the blood bath was already going on, for years, or you decided to call it something else. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sanjay Kak" To: "sarai list" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement > Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a > prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? > Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers > alerting us in advance? > Best > Sanjay > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: >> Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu >> >> Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece >> >> Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new >> generation of jihadists is being forged. >> >> Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his >> grocery >> store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his >> gestures —rolling >> up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash >> till — >> was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. >> >> Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition >> spearheading >> the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police >> this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani >> had >> opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani >> saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a >> bunch >> of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with >> reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being >> beaten but did nothing. >> >> Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. >> It >> ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness >> to >> make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when >> the >> Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military >> outposts, >> will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists >> seek: >> for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of >> jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are >> being forged. >> >> Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records >> of >> Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written >> while >> he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, >> gives >> some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. >> >> In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand >> pointed >> to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and >> Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership >> and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate >> sense >> of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill >> task >> of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the >> movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political >> leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by >> any >> authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political >> leadership at all'.” >> >> “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the >> demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting >> against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.” >> >> Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the >> publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the >> Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the >> Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — >> and >> drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to >> the >> “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid >> Dar >> declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the >> Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat >> moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. >> Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's >> Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a >> commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” >> >> Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about >> building >> a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had >> led >> to the failure of the jihad. >> >> Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India >> posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the *Rudad-e-Qafas*, >> he >> castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and >> Kashmir's >> future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the >> armed >> force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism >> from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. >> Geelani >> even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of >> Muslim >> prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused >> permission >> to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of >> political supremacy.” >> >> From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight >> India's >> growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, >> activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad >> Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the >> most >> important figure in the new Islamic coalition. >> >> Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in >> Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri >> Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in >> October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent >> jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and >> began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the >> next >> year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties >> Hurriyat >> Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who >> had >> been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor >> prospects. >> >> Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, >> “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to >> fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; >> traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” >> >> Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as >> such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the >> “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on >> [the] >> international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations >> to >> achieve the right to self-determination.” >> >> But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a >> new >> political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious >> duties, >> character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to >> “safeguard >> the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims >> about >> the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the >> path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist >> “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of >> various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the >> welfare >> of the people.” >> >> Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights >> campaigner >> H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to >> shaping >> Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic >> studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings >> of >> the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's >> Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led >> into >> the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided >> over >> the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad >> Farooq >> — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In >> 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, >> broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its >> linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. >> >> From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new >> generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — >> the >> al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of >> officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to >> the >> companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de guerre* >> of >> Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of >> the >> nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, >> an >> organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. >> >> Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed >> Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree >> in >> biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from >> leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of >> religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television >> programming. >> >> Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against >> the >> grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a >> communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to >> the >> streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the >> course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for >> the >> enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and >> human rights abuses by Indian security forces. >> >> In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first >> uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: >> “‘Brave >> Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout >> Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the >> time >> has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces >> as >> true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered >> the >> call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of >> terrorism, >> they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting >> ‘Indian >> dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security >> forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's >> end, >> at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death >> count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.” >> >> Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sat Sep 18 09:25:11 2010 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 09:25:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fish workers oppose draft CRZ notification In-Reply-To: <4c93f743.09508e0a.0906.ffff8521SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4c93f743.09508e0a.0906.ffff8521SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Fish workers oppose draft CRZ notification http://www.thehindu.com/2010/09/18/stories/2010091863840300.htm Special Correspondent Say it does not protect fishing communities or environment Thiruvananthapuram: The National Fishworkers Forum (NFF) and the Kerala Swathanthra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) have come out against the draft CRZ Notification 2010 put up on the web site of the Ministry of Environment and Forests. A press note quoting Matanhy Saldanha, chairperson, NFF, and T. Peter, president, KSMTF, said there were only cosmetic differences between the pre-draft and the draft notification. “It appears that either the Minister for Environment and Forests is trying to hoodwink the people or the bureaucrats in that department are misleading the Minister and the public while acting as puppets of the various lobbies and vested interests.” The note said the amount spent on organising 10 consultations across the country to understand the views and opinions of the coastal communities had gone waste as none of the recommendations were reflected in the notification. Mr. Peter said fishing communities and other traditional occupants of the coastline had strongly demanded provisions to protect their right to live along the coastline that they had been occupying for centuries and their right to livelihood from what the coastal environment provided. “Sadly, these demands have been ignored. The notification neither protects the fishing communities nor the coastal environment. Activities that do not need to be within 500 metres from the sea such as atomic plants, greenfield airports, industries, special economic zones and large housing projects have been permitted without any clear rationale. There is also no attempt to take account of the cumulative impacts of thermal power plants and ports along the coast.” The note said there was no case for the special status sought to be given to Kerala, Goa and Mumbai. “Given that the situation along India's vast coastline and its biodiversity differs so vastly, this only opens up the possibility of each State asking for, and being given, a special status. This will only serve to dilute the CRZ notification and open up the coast to builders, the tourist lobby, land sharks and the industry, while offering no protection to the environment and the traditional inhabitants of the coast.” It said the NFF would do everything in its power to ensure that the draft notification in its current form was withdrawn. The KSMTF is organising an open discussion on the notification at the Press Club here on Monday. http://www.keralafishworkers.in http://www.alakal.net From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Sep 18 17:43:24 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 17:43:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=93Racism=3A_A_Passion_from_Above?= =?windows-1252?q?=94?= Message-ID: <3B8A6441-8962-4CF6-8B4C-157E3442A1DD@sarai.net> “Racism: A Passion from Above” By Sebastian Budgen / 16 September 2010 In these tense times of increasingly explicit racism, most recently against the Roma in France, the French philosopher Jacques Rancière has made a very trenchant intervention. Speaking at a public meeting on “Why the Roma?” in Montreuil on 11 September, Rancière launched a precise attack on what he calls “left-wing intellectual racism” that tries to describe racism as simply a “passion of the popular classes” that the state can either seek or fail to channel or block, thereby occluding the active role of the state itself in creating, reproducing and intensifying racist divisions. Unfortunately, this talk has not yet been translated, but should be circulated immediately. Rancière argues: [That] this so-called critique [of the state supposedly 'exploiting', in an opportunistic and electoralist fashion, racist passions from below] renews with the presupposition that racism is a popular passion, a frightened and irrational reaction of backward sections of the population that are unable to adapt to the new mobile and cosmopolitan world. The state is accused of failing in its duty [manquer à son principe] by being indulgent to such layers. But in this way, this critique is confirmed in its position representing rationality in the face of popular irrationality. But, Rancière argues, this is an old game: A game which consists in opposing to popular passions the universalistic logic of the rational state, namely in giving a certificate of anti-racism to the racist state policies. It is time to turn the argument round and underline the complicity between the 'rationality' of the state which carries out these measures and the convenient other—the conniving adversary—which it sets up as a bogeyman, namely the popular passions. In fact, it is not the state which is acting under the pressure of popular racism and in reaction to the so-called 'populist' passions of the extreme Right. Rather it is the raison d'état which is maintaining this other to which it confers the imaginary management of its real legislation. Having made a number of sharp points against the law outlawing the burqa, Rancière concludes thus: a lot of energy has been spent against certain figure of racism—that which is incarnated by the Front National—and against a certain idea of this racism as an expression of the 'white trash' or 'rednecks' (petits blancs) which represent the backward layers of society. A good deal of this energy has been recuperated to construct the legitimacy of a new form of racism: the racism of the state and 'left-wing' intellectual racism. It is perhaps time to reorient our thinking and struggles against a practice of stigmatisation, precarisation and exclusion that today constitute a racism from above: a logic of the state and a passion of the intelligentsia. http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/82-racism-a-passion-from-above For text in french see http://www.mediapart.fr/node/92825 From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Sep 18 18:21:56 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 18:21:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement In-Reply-To: References: <1762244467-1284704153-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2144277753-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Well dear Aditya think of Mufti Mohd Syed, who organized communal riots in Anantanag in 1986, right, but why he did it, because he wanted to stay politically alive that is why NC leaders/ workers can do it, by showing their zeal for popularity, to stay alive, not to feel isolated... normally people dont want to burn the property which supports them but still when they burn: now read this on . from FB Kaesher Jokes One day when people protested in kashmir and started to burn offices, and in one remote village the angry mob thought to burn something, since there was no office in the village they set ablaze the electric transformer, which obviously resulted into dark nights for the whole village. Next day they collected some money to repair it also. ( the moral ) So one should not lost wits while in rage... Yeli aki vizi poori kashiri maenz protest gaey ti lokov zael warya daftar. Akis door gaamas maenz ti draayi lukh shararati saan ahtijaj karni. Yim chi tchandan aes kya zaalou. Ati chuni kehiy ti daftar. Akhir kaar yiman aaw ni kihi athi ti yimou neu panni gaamuk transformer zaalith. Pati gokh paansi retas power. Yeli j...osh wathuk. paanai sumbravikh poonsi ti shernowukh transformer. Dapaan Joshi viz gasi hosh aasun. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Shuddha, > > You aren't even ashamed to defend a killer, a monster in every sense of the > term. Shame on your attitude. > > Please correct your facts. Masarat Alam doesn't lead any mob, but he is in > hiding. He is operating from a control room with network spread all over. > Wake up to this reality. > > Not just this school, but an adjacent church and a temple at Nai Basti, > Khanabal, Anantnag were even set ablaze by Islamist mob. > > Refrain from forcing your half-truths on members who are now well aware of > the intentions of these separatists who are instigating bloodshed on the > streets of Kashmir. Even their paid agents in Delhi are exposed. > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:48 AM, wrote: > >> Aditya, >> >> Your utterly shameless capacity to lie and spread misinformation truly >> amazes me. The person who led tbe mob that torched the Tangmarg branch of >> Tyndale Biscoe school is NOT Masarrat Alam. It is Ali Mohammed Sofi an >> National Conference politician and stooge of the Indian occupation. The >> Hurriyat (G), with which Alam is associated squarely condemned this horrible >> incident of arson. I have written about all of this in my. Last poszting >> here. Refrain from abusing the list to spread lies. >> Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Aditya Raj Kaul >> Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:18:50 >> To: sarai list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir's new Islamist movement >> >> Wish you could read the name of MASARAT ALAM BHAT. >> >> Interestingly and quite shamelessly, Masarat got the very branch of the >> school burned where he himself was educated. Tyndale Biscoe School, >> Tangamarg. >> >> Unfortunately, educated to kill masses and take the valley hostage to >> Islamist fundamentalism. >> >> They have now given a call to Tangamarg and attack all army barracks. >> >> Sad mindset. >> >> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Sanjay Kak wrote: >> >> > Towards the end of his piece is Praveen Swami offering his readers a >> > prophecy, or a threat to the protesters in Kashmir? >> > Is a bloodbath being planned, I wonder, and are the trumpet bearers >> > alerting us in advance? >> > Best >> > Sanjay >> > >> > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> > wrote: >> > > Kashmir's new Islamist movement*Praveen Swami, The Hindu >> > > >> > > Link* - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article672980.ece >> > > >> > > Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a >> new >> > > generation of jihadists is being forged. >> > > >> > > Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his >> > grocery >> > > store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures >> > —rolling >> > > up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash >> > till — >> > > was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness. >> > > >> > > Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition >> > spearheading >> > > the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with >> police >> > > this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani >> > had >> > > opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls >> Wani >> > > saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a >> > bunch >> > > of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with >> > > reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being >> > > beaten but did nothing. >> > > >> > > Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be >> night. >> > It >> > > ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of >> darkness >> > to >> > > make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, >> when >> > the >> > > Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military >> > outposts, >> > > will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists >> > seek: >> > > for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation >> of >> > > jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, >> are >> > > being forged. >> > > >> > > Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's *Rudad-i-Qafas*, or ‘Records >> > of >> > > Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written >> > while >> > > he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, >> > gives >> > > some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion. >> > > >> > > In a 2004 appraisal of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, scholar Yoginder Sikand >> > pointed >> > > to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and >> > > Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political >> leadership >> > > and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate >> > sense >> > > of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill >> > task >> > > of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the >> > > movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political >> > > leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered >> by >> > any >> > > authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political >> > > leadership at all'.” >> > > >> > > “They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of >> the >> > > demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting >> > > against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no >> time.” >> > > >> > > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the >> > > publication of the *Rudad-i-Qafas*, threw its resources behind the >> > > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the >> > > Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat >> — >> > and >> > > drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end >> to >> > the >> > > “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid >> > Dar >> > > declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the >> > > Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat >> > > moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired >> Mr. >> > > Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the >> Jamaat's >> > > Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a >> > > commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.” >> > > >> > > Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about >> > building >> > > a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed >> had >> > led >> > > to the failure of the jihad. >> > > >> > > Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India >> > > posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the >> *Rudad-e-Qafas*, >> > he >> > > castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and >> > Kashmir's >> > > future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the >> > armed >> > > force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu >> communalism >> > > from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. >> > Geelani >> > > even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of >> > Muslim >> > > prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused >> > permission >> > > to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination >> of >> > > political supremacy.” >> > > >> > > From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight >> > India's >> > > growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, >> > > activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad >> > > Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the >> > most >> > > important figure in the new Islamic coalition. >> > > >> > > Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied >> in >> > > Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the >> Sri >> > > Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in >> > > October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the >> then-prominent >> > > jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 >> and >> > > began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the >> > next >> > > year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties >> > Hurriyat >> > > Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who >> > had >> > > been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor >> > prospects. >> > > >> > > Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, >> > > “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings >> to >> > > fight out socialism and secularism to remove *taguti* [false leaders; >> > > traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.” >> > > >> > > Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, >> as >> > > such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the >> > > “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on >> > [the] >> > > international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and >> congregations >> > to >> > > achieve the right to self-determination.” >> > > >> > > But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a >> > new >> > > political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious >> > duties, >> > > character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to >> > “safeguard >> > > the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims >> > about >> > > the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow >> the >> > > path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist >> > > “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of >> > > various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the >> > welfare >> > > of the people.” >> > > >> > > Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights >> > campaigner >> > > H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to >> > shaping >> > > Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic >> > > studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings >> > of >> > > the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's >> > > Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led >> > into >> > > the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided >> > over >> > > the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad >> > Farooq >> > > — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. >> In >> > > 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name >> Nasir-ul-Islam, >> > > broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its >> > > linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami. >> > > >> > > From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new >> > > generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — >> > the >> > > al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings >> of >> > > officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference >> to >> > the >> > > companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the *nom de >> guerre* >> > of >> > > Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons >> of >> > the >> > > nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the >> nation, >> > an >> > > organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi. >> > > >> > > Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, >> Sayeed >> > > Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate >> degree >> > in >> > > biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from >> > > leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network >> of >> > > religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular >> television >> > > programming. >> > > >> > > Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against >> > the >> > > grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a >> > > communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to >> > the >> > > streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the >> > > course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for >> > the >> > > enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; >> and >> > > human rights abuses by Indian security forces. >> > > >> > > In 1990, the *Time Magazine* carried an evocative account of the first >> > > uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: >> > “‘Brave >> > > Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout >> > > Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the >> > time >> > > has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation >> forces >> > as >> > > true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered >> > the >> > > call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of >> > terrorism, >> > > they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting >> > ‘Indian >> > > dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. >> Security >> > > forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's >> > end, >> > > at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death >> > > count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months >> ago.” >> > > >> > > Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead. >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Sat Sep 18 20:26:23 2010 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:26:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com From aliens at dataone.in Sat Sep 18 23:27:49 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 23:27:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not interfere. When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 11:31:24 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:31:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mumbai is marginalizing Muslims (Shobhaa De) Message-ID: Two years on, Mumbai is marginalizing Muslims Shobhaa De It has happened. I guess it had to. Perhaps, it happened a few months or a few years ago. Perhaps, it was always there, but swept under the carpet. Society’s dirty secret is finally out — everybody knows about it but nobody talks about it. Ten days ago, I received a call from a Muslim friend. She sounded a little concerned. Her anxiety had to do with her nephew’s admission into one of Mumbai’s better colleges. His marks were good, his conduct exemplary. He had been a prefect at school and participated in several extracurricular activities. I asked what the hitch was. She sounded almost embarrassed as she said, “Well, we are Muslims and that seems to be the problem in a lot of colleges.” I was shocked. “Are you sure that’s what it is?’ I said, not prepared to believe it was the situation in some of the ‘progressive’ South Mumbai educational institutions. My friend went on to narrate how her nephew had been subjected to blatant discrimination during interviews and told upfront that it was his surname that came in the way. She apologized again for the ‘trouble’ she was putting me through. She added, “If the boy was not as bright, I would have told him to forget it, and do something else. But he is keen to study science and make a mark for himself — he has always been a good student. If he doesn’t get into a recognized college, his career is as good as over.” I made a couple of calls to friendly neighbourhood college principals and asked whether they were really screening students on the basis of religion. One of them denied it; the other sheepishly admitted that such a directive was in place, but on an informal level. “We don’t want trouble,’’ the principal added virtuously. When i asked him to specify what sort of trouble a young man like my friend’s nephew could possibly cause, the principal replied, “These days, you never know. How can you trust these people?” What do you mean by ‘these people’? I persisted. The principal whispered, “Leave it. Don’t make me spell it out. In any case, we don’t have a vacancy.” I called up another college. The person was enthusiastic and polite, saying their list was still open and the student I was recommending, definitely qualified etc. Then i was asked for the name. As soon as i mentioned it, his voice changed. ‘Let me crosscheck with the clerk. I think I made a mistake. So sorry, admissions were closed yesterday.” Finally, I spoke to a lady who heard me out and said, “Send the boy to me tomorrow morning. I’ll see what I can do.” This story has a happy ending — the boy got in. But that’s because his aunt was in a position to make a few calls on his behalf. There are thousands like him in Mumbai and across India, who are up against an invisible wall, unable to move forward, determined not to look backwards, but stymied all the way. When I met the young man and his family, they had tears of gratitude in their eyes. The point is: I didn’t do them a favour. And neither did the college. He was entitled to receive the same access and treatment on the basis of merit alone. Any college should have held its doors open for him. Especially as the colleges he had applied to were in Mumbai and not some backward town in the back of beyond. I felt intensely sad, as I accepted a box of mithai from his emotional relatives. It was as if they had crossed an impossible hurdle when it was just a routine matter of showing your marksheet, paying the fees and getting in. Will this boy ever forget the humiliation? Can his family forget the frustrating days when college after college turned them away on some pretext or the other? Perhaps this experience will toughen the lad and make him excel. Perhaps not. It is the ‘not’ that is worrying. Nearly every known privilege that a non-Muslim counterpart can and does take for granted, is denied to him in what was once a liberal, cosmopolitan city with great colleges and outstanding leaders in every field. Today, those temples of education are practicing a nasty version of religious profiling which is going to lead to major problems if it goes unchecked. There is no getting away from the current polarization. I used to kid myself that some of my Muslim friends were being ‘paranoid’ when they talked about ‘the problem’ (as we had dubbed it). That ‘problem’ pretty much covered everything — from getting a job to finding accommodation. At the time (post- 26/11), we believed it was a passing phase that would disappear once everything ‘settled down’. Except that nobody quite knew what was meant to settle down or whether it would ever happen. But we consoled ourselves, saying sensitivities at the time were running high -- people were angry and afraid. More than that, people were confused. Two years down the line, there are no alibis, no screens to hide behind. Positions have obviously hardened to such a degree that now city colleges have begun to follow their own quota system and turn down eligible students because they are Muslims. We are a few weeks away from the anniversary of one of the most devastating and tragic events that ripped the city apart. No, we cannot and must not forget what happened. That awful attack was the work of hardcore terrorists. What we are doing may be much worse — we are killing the spirit of innocents. The latter crime may have far more lethal repercussions! http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/politically-incorrect/entry/two-years-on-mumbai-is-marginalizing-muslims From kamalhak at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 11:54:24 2010 From: kamalhak at gmail.com (kamalhak at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 06:24:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Mumbai is marginalizing Muslims (Shobhaa De) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1271999766-1284877421-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1476724199-@bda129.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Long back when Kashmir was crown of India and paradise on earth, I faced a similar situation while seeking admission to Regional Engineering College, now NIT. I was denied admission and told point blank to try in Hindustan. Wish I had some one like Shoba De to make a few phone calls and then write for me. Kamal Hak Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel -----Original Message----- From: Javed Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:31:24 To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Mumbai is marginalizing Muslims (Shobhaa De) Two years on, Mumbai is marginalizing Muslims Shobhaa De It has happened. I guess it had to. Perhaps, it happened a few months or a few years ago. Perhaps, it was always there, but swept under the carpet. Society’s dirty secret is finally out — everybody knows about it but nobody talks about it. Ten days ago, I received a call from a Muslim friend. She sounded a little concerned. Her anxiety had to do with her nephew’s admission into one of Mumbai’s better colleges. His marks were good, his conduct exemplary. He had been a prefect at school and participated in several extracurricular activities. I asked what the hitch was. She sounded almost embarrassed as she said, “Well, we are Muslims and that seems to be the problem in a lot of colleges.” I was shocked. “Are you sure that’s what it is?’ I said, not prepared to believe it was the situation in some of the ‘progressive’ South Mumbai educational institutions. My friend went on to narrate how her nephew had been subjected to blatant discrimination during interviews and told upfront that it was his surname that came in the way. She apologized again for the ‘trouble’ she was putting me through. She added, “If the boy was not as bright, I would have told him to forget it, and do something else. But he is keen to study science and make a mark for himself — he has always been a good student. If he doesn’t get into a recognized college, his career is as good as over.” I made a couple of calls to friendly neighbourhood college principals and asked whether they were really screening students on the basis of religion. One of them denied it; the other sheepishly admitted that such a directive was in place, but on an informal level. “We don’t want trouble,’’ the principal added virtuously. When i asked him to specify what sort of trouble a young man like my friend’s nephew could possibly cause, the principal replied, “These days, you never know. How can you trust these people?” What do you mean by ‘these people’? I persisted. The principal whispered, “Leave it. Don’t make me spell it out. In any case, we don’t have a vacancy.” I called up another college. The person was enthusiastic and polite, saying their list was still open and the student I was recommending, definitely qualified etc. Then i was asked for the name. As soon as i mentioned it, his voice changed. ‘Let me crosscheck with the clerk. I think I made a mistake. So sorry, admissions were closed yesterday.” Finally, I spoke to a lady who heard me out and said, “Send the boy to me tomorrow morning. I’ll see what I can do.” This story has a happy ending — the boy got in. But that’s because his aunt was in a position to make a few calls on his behalf. There are thousands like him in Mumbai and across India, who are up against an invisible wall, unable to move forward, determined not to look backwards, but stymied all the way. When I met the young man and his family, they had tears of gratitude in their eyes. The point is: I didn’t do them a favour. And neither did the college. He was entitled to receive the same access and treatment on the basis of merit alone. Any college should have held its doors open for him. Especially as the colleges he had applied to were in Mumbai and not some backward town in the back of beyond. I felt intensely sad, as I accepted a box of mithai from his emotional relatives. It was as if they had crossed an impossible hurdle when it was just a routine matter of showing your marksheet, paying the fees and getting in. Will this boy ever forget the humiliation? Can his family forget the frustrating days when college after college turned them away on some pretext or the other? Perhaps this experience will toughen the lad and make him excel. Perhaps not. It is the ‘not’ that is worrying. Nearly every known privilege that a non-Muslim counterpart can and does take for granted, is denied to him in what was once a liberal, cosmopolitan city with great colleges and outstanding leaders in every field. Today, those temples of education are practicing a nasty version of religious profiling which is going to lead to major problems if it goes unchecked. There is no getting away from the current polarization. I used to kid myself that some of my Muslim friends were being ‘paranoid’ when they talked about ‘the problem’ (as we had dubbed it). That ‘problem’ pretty much covered everything — from getting a job to finding accommodation. At the time (post- 26/11), we believed it was a passing phase that would disappear once everything ‘settled down’. Except that nobody quite knew what was meant to settle down or whether it would ever happen. But we consoled ourselves, saying sensitivities at the time were running high -- people were angry and afraid. More than that, people were confused. Two years down the line, there are no alibis, no screens to hide behind. Positions have obviously hardened to such a degree that now city colleges have begun to follow their own quota system and turn down eligible students because they are Muslims. We are a few weeks away from the anniversary of one of the most devastating and tragic events that ripped the city apart. No, we cannot and must not forget what happened. That awful attack was the work of hardcore terrorists. What we are doing may be much worse — we are killing the spirit of innocents. The latter crime may have far more lethal repercussions! http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/politically-incorrect/entry/two-years-on-mumbai-is-marginalizing-muslims _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Sun Sep 19 12:32:16 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 00:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <792292.26214.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam,          It is good to know that you are reading messages.  But only my messages are so disturbing?  or the content as a whole and postings of this forum are disturbing?.  I didn’t say I knew everything about anything but I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never abused.  If you know anything better then you are open to post about it with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to INDIA,  instead of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote  “> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations”. This forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, Anti-national, anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic Anti-Hindu postings. If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my messages are so rubbish and disturbing?   I request you don’t assume   Anything. Under my freedom of speech, rights etc., and your opinion linked to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human right organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men doing not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. I request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody can live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under this n that for every reason. ANYWAY I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. Regards, Dhatri. --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM dear we wi, i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a market place. what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one has the right to express but i am sure not this way. thanks Anupam From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 12:48:03 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:48:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> Message-ID: Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter > and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to > remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and > do not interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 12:57:55 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:57:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations In-Reply-To: <792292.26214.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <792292.26214.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Dhatri, I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the readers do not even take you seriously. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > It is good to know that you are reading messages. But only my > > messages > are so disturbing? or the content as a whole and postings > > of > this forum are disturbing?. I didn’t say I knew everything about anything > > > but > I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never > > abused. > If you know anything better then you are open to post about > > it > with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to > INDIA, > > instead > of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote > > “> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & > Collaborations”. > > This > forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, > > Anti-national, > anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic > > Anti-Hindu postings. > If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my > > messages > are so rubbish and disturbing? I request you don’t assume > > Anything. Under my freedom of speech, > rights etc., and your opinion > > linked > to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human > > right > organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men > > doing > not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. > > I > request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody > > can > live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under > > this > n that for every reason. > > ANYWAY > I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. > > Regards, > > Dhatri. > > > > --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > To: "sarai list" > Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM > > dear we wi, > > i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely > disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to > you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or > discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a > market place. > > what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who > is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism > or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think > you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your > impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge > about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am > assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one > has > the right to express but i am sure not this way. > > thanks Anupam > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Sun Sep 19 13:24:23 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 00:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23350.5386.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam Chakravarhy,       I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative messages on this list.  Your view about me is totally baseless because it is made up with assumptions and guesses.   If you know much about religion not just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings.  If everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and feel it so depth?  If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM Dear Dhatri, I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the readers do not even take you seriously. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: Dear Anupam,          It is good to know that you are reading messages.  But only my messages are so disturbing?  or the content as a whole and postings of this forum are disturbing?.  I didn’t say I knew everything about anything but I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never abused.  If you know anything better then you are open to post about it with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to INDIA,  instead of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote  “> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations”. This forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, Anti-national, anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic Anti-Hindu postings. If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my messages are so rubbish and disturbing?   I request you don’t assume   Anything. Under my freedom of speech, rights etc., and your opinion linked to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human right organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men doing not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. I request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody can live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under this n that for every reason. ANYWAY I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. Regards, Dhatri. --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM dear we wi, i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a market place. what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one has the right to express but i am sure not this way. thanks Anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 13:28:20 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:28:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations In-Reply-To: <23350.5386.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <23350.5386.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Dhatri, i am very small fry here dhatri. but even a certain individual who we refer to buddha was silent when asked about a way. but i can give you a clue though: how about looking inwards.i hope it helps. i hope i am not trying to sound very mystical :P Thanks anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:24 PM, we wi wrote: > Dear Anupam Chakravarhy, > > I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong > in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative > messages on this list. Your view about me is totally baseless because it is > made up with assumptions and guesses. If you know much about religion not > just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings. If > everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and > feel it so depth? If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then > they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city Critiques & Collaborations > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM > > Dear Dhatri, > > I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before > you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as > yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the > readers do not even take you seriously. > > > Thanks Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > > > It is good to know that you are reading messages. But only my > > > > messages > > are so disturbing? or the content as a whole and postings > > > > of > > this forum are disturbing?. I didn’t say I knew everything about anything > > > > > > but > > I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never > > > > abused. > > If you know anything better then you are open to post about > > > > it > > with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to > > INDIA, > > > > instead > > of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote > > > > “> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & > > Collaborations”. > > > > This > > forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, > > > > Anti-national, > > anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic > > > > Anti-Hindu postings. > > If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my > > > > messages > > are so rubbish and disturbing? I request you don’t assume > > > > Anything. Under my freedom of speech, > > rights etc., and your opinion > > > > linked > > to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human > > > > right > > organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men > > > > doing > > not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. > > > > I > > request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody > > > > can > > live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under > > > > this > > n that for every reason. > > > > ANYWAY > > I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM > > > > dear we wi, > > > > i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely > > disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to > > you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or > > discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a > > market place. > > > > what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who > > is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism > > or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think > > you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your > > impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge > > about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am > > assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one > has > > the right to express but i am sure not this way. > > > > thanks Anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Sun Sep 19 13:37:05 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 01:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations Message-ID: <543168.23664.qm@web45509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Anupam,     If you don't feel it provocative I am Just curious to know that are you a reader or writer or critique? Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, we wi wrote: From: we wi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations To: "readerlist" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 1:24 PM Dear Anupam Chakravarhy,       I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative messages on this list.  Your view about me is totally baseless because it is made up with assumptions and guesses.   If you know much about religion not just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings.  If everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and feel it so depth?  If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM Dear Dhatri, I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the readers do not even take you seriously. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: Dear Anupam,          It is good to know that you are reading messages.  But only my messages are so disturbing?  or the content as a whole and postings of this forum are disturbing?.  I didn’t say I knew everything about anything but I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never abused.  If you know anything better then you are open to post about it with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to INDIA,  instead of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote  “> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations”. This forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, Anti-national, anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic Anti-Hindu postings. If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my messages are so rubbish and disturbing?   I request you don’t assume   Anything. Under my freedom of speech, rights etc., and your opinion linked to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human right organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men doing not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. I request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody can live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under this n that for every reason. ANYWAY I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. Regards, Dhatri. --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM dear we wi, i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a market place. what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one has the right to express but i am sure not this way. thanks Anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 13:40:56 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:40:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations In-Reply-To: <543168.23664.qm@web45509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <543168.23664.qm@web45509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Dhatri, I m a correspondent for a newspaper. But just for your information, a writer is a reader who can be a critic too. Would that be a problem? Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:37 PM, we wi wrote: > Anupam, > > If you don't feel it provocative I am Just curious to know that are you > a reader or writer or critique? > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, we wi wrote: > > From: we wi > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city Critiques & Collaborations > To: "readerlist" > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 1:24 PM > > Dear Anupam Chakravarhy, > > I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong > in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative > messages on this list. Your view about me is totally baseless because it is > made up with assumptions and guesses. If you know much about religion not > just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings. If > everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and > feel it so depth? If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then > they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city Critiques & Collaborations > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM > > Dear Dhatri, > > I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before > you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as > yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the > readers do not even take you seriously. > > > Thanks Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > > > It is good to know that you are reading messages. But only my > > > > messages > > are so disturbing? or the content as a whole and postings > > > > of > > this forum are disturbing?. I didn’t say I knew everything about anything > > > > > > but > > I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never > > > > abused. > > If you know anything better then you are open to post about > > > > it > > with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to > > INDIA, > > > > instead > > of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote > > > > “> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & > > Collaborations”. > > > > This > > forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, > > > > Anti-national, > > anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic > > > > Anti-Hindu postings. > > If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my > > > > messages > > are so rubbish and disturbing? I request you don’t assume > > > > Anything. Under my freedom of speech, > > rights etc., and your opinion > > > > linked > > to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human > > > > right > > organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men > > > > doing > > not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. > > > > I > > request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody > > > > can > > live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under > > > > this > > n that for every reason. > > > > ANYWAY > > I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM > > > > dear we wi, > > > > i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely > > disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to > > you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or > > discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a > > market place. > > > > what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who > > is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism > > or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think > > you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your > > impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge > > about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am > > assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one > has > > the right to express but i am sure not this way. > > > > thanks Anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Sun Sep 19 15:40:52 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 03:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Once dead can born somewhere in some form(atma) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <498473.72651.qm@web45508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Anupam,        That's very smart answer and very mystical.  Anyway By quoting the name Buddha you mean the founder of Buddhism I suppose. Before enlightenment and become Buddha, he is a HINDU Kshatriya prince.  He had parents, wife and a child and then people. But "Buddha" is so sensitive to escape from his responsibilities to find a permanent solution to old and death. How he escaped from the responsibilities?     1. He should perform the "tarpana or sradha kriyas" to his parents so that they can reach the "punya lokas".  But he didn't.     2. The four Asramas or orders of life are  "Brahmacharya(unmarried)","Grihastha(married)", "Vanaprastha(old)"  and "Sannyasa(reluctant about everything except moksha)".  Anyone can attain    the moksha (free from all miseries or troubles) after passing through these phases of life in a chain of birth and death.  But "Buddha" left (not like the words exploited, cheated ...) his wife in middle and preferred sannyasa.     3. Child may not be orphan but he also fell in the trap and followed Buddhism there by turning down the hopes of mother and grandparents and the people.     4.  Anybody can become a ruler but every ruler can't be a king.  Only Kshatriya can be chosen as kings because they will never turn their back till the end. It is a Kshatriya duty to protect the people living in the kingdom.  He is responsible  for all the mistakes (his own or people).  So however good he was a king must  experience (visit) the NARAK after the death whether it is natural or war based. Based on sin and virtue one can secure a place in SWARG. Spending time in either swarg or narak (not just a king but anybody) can attain a moksha after several lives   based on their karma (sin or virtue). Now as a prince         it’s "Buddha" duty to know the problems of the people and resolving them. There is absolutely nothing wrong in it. But illness, old, and death are the forms of life not just for humans but any living being.  Being a prince he can make a poor into rich, he can give a better treatment to the illness.  It is the duty of the king.  Instead of that the prince ran-out of life and ruined everything.  P: S: - There are not so many castes and religions exist at that time when "Buddha" lived. Whatever "Buddha" found is very much there in Hindu religion.  The enlightenment didn't meat the eradication of old and death.      Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 1:28 PM Dear Dhatri, i am very small fry here dhatri. but even a certain individual who we refer to buddha was silent when asked about a way. but i can give you a clue though: how about looking inwards.i hope it helps. i hope i am not trying to sound very mystical :P Thanks anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:24 PM, we wi wrote: Dear Anupam Chakravarhy,       I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative messages on this list.  Your view about me is totally baseless because it is made up with assumptions and guesses.   If you know much about religion not just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings.  If everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and feel it so depth?  If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM Dear Dhatri, I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the readers do not even take you seriously. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: Dear Anupam,          It is good to know that you are reading messages.  But only my messages are so disturbing?  or the content as a whole and postings of this forum are disturbing?.  I didn’t say I knew everything about anything but I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never abused.  If you know anything better then you are open to post about it with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to INDIA,  instead of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote  “> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations”. This forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, Anti-national, anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic Anti-Hindu postings. If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my messages are so rubbish and disturbing?   I request you don’t assume   Anything. Under my freedom of speech, rights etc., and your opinion linked to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human right organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men doing not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. I request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody can live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under this n that for every reason. ANYWAY I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. Regards, Dhatri. --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM dear we wi, i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a market place. what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one has the right to express but i am sure not this way. thanks Anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 15:44:51 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 15:44:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Once dead can born somewhere in some form(atma) In-Reply-To: <498473.72651.qm@web45508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <498473.72651.qm@web45508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Dhatri, I refuse to continue the discussion with you. Thank you very much for your time and replies. Regards Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 3:40 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > Anupam, > > > > That's very smart answer and very > mystical. Anyway By quoting the name Buddha you mean the founder of > Buddhism I suppose. Before enlightenment and become Buddha, he is a HINDU > Kshatriya prince. He had parents, wife and a child and then people. But > "Buddha" is so sensitive to escape from his responsibilities to find > a permanent solution to old and death. > > > > How he escaped from the responsibilities? > > > > 1. He should perform the "tarpana or sradha > kriyas" to his parents so that they can > reach the "punya > lokas". But he didn't. > > 2. The four Asramas or orders of life are > "Brahmacharya(unmarried)","Grihastha(married)", > "Vanaprastha(old)" > and "Sannyasa(reluctant about > everything except moksha)". Anyone can attain the moksha (free from all > miseries or troubles) after > passing through these phases of life in a chain of birth and death. But > "Buddha" left (not like the words > exploited, cheated ...) his wife in middle and preferred sannyasa. > > 3. Child may not be orphan but he also fell in the trap and > followed Buddhism there by turning down the hopes of > mother and grandparents and the people. > > 4. Anybody can become a ruler but every ruler can't be > a king. Only Kshatriya can be chosen as kings because they will never turn > their > back till the end. It is a Kshatriya duty to protect the people living in > the kingdom. He is responsible > for all the mistakes (his own or > people). So however good he was a king must > experience (visit) the NARAK after > the death whether it is natural or war based. Based on sin and virtue one > can secure a > place in SWARG. Spending time in either swarg or narak (not just a king but > anybody) > can attain a moksha after several lives > based on their karma (sin or > virtue). Now as a prince > > it’s "Buddha" duty to know > the problems of the people and resolving them. There is absolutely nothing > wrong in it. But > illness, old, and death are the forms of life not just for humans but any > living being. > Being a prince he can make a poor into rich, he can give a better treatment > to the > illness. It is the duty of the king. Instead of that the prince ran-out > of life and ruined everything. > > > > > > > P: S: - There are not so many castes and religions exist at that time when > "Buddha" lived. Whatever "Buddha" found is very much there in Hindu > religion. The enlightenment didn't meat the eradication of old and death. > > > > > Regards, > > Dhatri. > > > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city Critiques & Collaborations > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 1:28 PM > > Dear Dhatri, > > i am very small fry here dhatri. but even a certain individual who we refer > to buddha was silent when asked about a way. but i can give you a clue > though: how about looking inwards.i hope it helps. i hope i am not trying to > sound very mystical :P > > > Thanks anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:24 PM, we wi wrote: > > Dear Anupam Chakravarhy, > > > > I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong > in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative > messages on this list. Your view about me is totally baseless because it is > made up with assumptions and guesses. If you know much about religion not > just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings. If > everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and > feel it so depth? If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then > they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". > > > > > Regards, > > Dhatri. > > > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city Critiques & Collaborations > > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before > you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as > yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the > readers do not even take you seriously. > > > > > > > Thanks Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > > > > > > > > > It is good to know that you are reading messages. But only my > > > > > > > > messages > > > > are so disturbing? or the content as a whole and postings > > > > > > > > of > > > > this forum are disturbing?. I didn’t say I knew everything about anything > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never > > > > > > > > abused. > > > > If you know anything better then you are open to post about > > > > > > > > it > > > > with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to > > > > INDIA, > > > > > > > > instead > > > > of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote > > > > > > > > “> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & > > > > Collaborations”. > > > > > > > > This > > > > forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, > > > > > > > > Anti-national, > > > > anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic > > > > > > > > Anti-Hindu postings. > > > > If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my > > > > > > > > messages > > > > are so rubbish and disturbing? I request you don’t assume > > > > > > > > Anything. Under my freedom of speech, > > > > rights etc., and your opinion > > > > > > > > linked > > > > to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human > > > > > > > > right > > > > organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men > > > > > > > > doing > > > > not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. > > > > > > > > I > > > > request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody > > > > > > > > can > > > > live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under > > > > > > > > this > > > > n that for every reason. > > > > > > > > ANYWAY > > > > I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM > > > > > > > > dear we wi, > > > > > > > > i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely > > > > disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to > > > > you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or > > > > discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a > > > > market place. > > > > > > > > what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who > > > > is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism > > > > or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think > > > > you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your > > > > impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge > > > > about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am > > > > assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one > has > > > > the right to express but i am sure not this way. > > > > > > > > thanks Anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Sun Sep 19 16:03:32 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 03:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Hi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <251008.44731.qm@web45505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam,         Hmm that's cool.  What about a coffee or a lunch or a dinner?  :P P:S :-  I am not a female. Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Once dead can born somewhere in some form(atma) To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 3:44 PM Dear Dhatri, I refuse to continue the discussion with you. Thank you very much for your time and replies. Regards Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 3:40 PM, we wi wrote: Anupam,        That's very smart answer and very mystical.  Anyway By quoting the name Buddha you mean the founder of Buddhism I suppose. Before enlightenment and become Buddha, he is a HINDU Kshatriya prince.  He had parents, wife and a child and then people. But "Buddha" is so sensitive to escape from his responsibilities to find a permanent solution to old and death. How he escaped from the responsibilities?     1. He should perform the "tarpana or sradha kriyas" to his parents so that they can reach the "punya lokas".  But he didn't.     2. The four Asramas or orders of life are  "Brahmacharya(unmarried)","Grihastha(married)", "Vanaprastha(old)"  and "Sannyasa(reluctant about everything except moksha)".  Anyone can attain    the moksha (free from all miseries or troubles) after passing through these phases of life in a chain of birth and death.   But "Buddha" left (not like the words exploited, cheated ...) his wife in middle and preferred sannyasa.     3. Child may not be orphan but he also fell in the trap and followed Buddhism there by turning down the hopes of mother and grandparents and the people.     4.  Anybody can become a ruler but every ruler can't be a king.  Only Kshatriya can be chosen as kings because they will never turn their back till the end. It is a Kshatriya duty to protect the people living in the kingdom.  He is responsible  for all the mistakes (his own or people).  So however good he was a king must  experience (visit) the NARAK after the death whether it is natural or war based. Based on sin and virtue one can secure a place in SWARG. Spending time in either swarg or narak (not just a king but anybody) can attain a moksha after several lives   based on their karma (sin or virtue). Now as a prince         it’s "Buddha" duty to know the problems of the people and resolving them. There is absolutely nothing wrong in it. But illness, old, and death are the forms of life not just for humans but any living being.  Being a prince he can make a poor into rich, he can give a better treatment to the illness.  It is the duty of the king.  Instead of that the prince ran-out of life and ruined everything.  P: S: - There are not so many castes and religions exist at that time when "Buddha" lived. Whatever "Buddha" found is very much there in Hindu religion.  The enlightenment didn't meat the eradication of old and death.      Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 1:28 PM Dear Dhatri, i am very small fry here dhatri. but even a certain individual who we refer to buddha was silent when asked about a way. but i can give you a clue though: how about looking inwards.i hope it helps. i hope i am not trying to sound very mystical :P Thanks anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:24 PM, we wi wrote: Dear Anupam Chakravarhy,       I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative messages on this list.  Your view about me is totally baseless because it is made up with assumptions and guesses.   If you know much about religion not just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings.  If everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and feel it so depth?  If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM Dear Dhatri, I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the readers do not even take you seriously. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: Dear Anupam,          It is good to know that you are reading messages.  But only my messages are so disturbing?  or the content as a whole and postings of this forum are disturbing?.  I didn’t say I knew everything about anything but I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never abused.  If you know anything better then you are open to post about it with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to INDIA,  instead of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote  “> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & Collaborations”. This forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, Anti-national, anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic Anti-Hindu postings. If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my messages are so rubbish and disturbing?   I request you don’t assume   Anything. Under my freedom of speech, rights etc., and your opinion linked to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human right organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men doing not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. I request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody can live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under this n that for every reason. ANYWAY I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. Regards, Dhatri. --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM dear we wi, i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a market place. what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one has the right to express but i am sure not this way. thanks Anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 16:21:28 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:21:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hi In-Reply-To: <251008.44731.qm@web45505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <251008.44731.qm@web45505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Dhatri, I stay in Vadodara of Gujarat. If you are ever passing by this town, drop a line on my inbox. Thanks for your invitation. Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:03 PM, we wi wrote: > Dear Anupam, > > Hmm that's cool. What about a coffee or a lunch or a dinner? :P > > P:S :- I am not a female. > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Once dead can born somewhere in some form(atma) > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 3:44 PM > > Dear Dhatri, > > I refuse to continue the discussion with you. Thank you very much for your > time and replies. > > Regards > > Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 3:40 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anupam, > > > > > > > > That's very smart answer and very > > mystical. Anyway By quoting the name Buddha you mean the founder of > > Buddhism I suppose. Before enlightenment and become Buddha, he is a HINDU > > Kshatriya prince. He had parents, wife and a child and then people. But > > "Buddha" is so sensitive to escape from his responsibilities to find > > a permanent solution to old and death. > > > > > > > > How he escaped from the responsibilities? > > > > > > > > 1. He should perform the "tarpana or sradha > > kriyas" to his parents so that they can > > reach the "punya > > lokas". But he didn't. > > > > 2. The four Asramas or orders of life are > > "Brahmacharya(unmarried)","Grihastha(married)", > > "Vanaprastha(old)" > > and "Sannyasa(reluctant about > > everything except moksha)". Anyone can attain the moksha (free from all > miseries or troubles) after > > passing through these phases of life in a chain of birth and death. But > "Buddha" left (not like the words > > exploited, cheated ...) his wife in middle and preferred sannyasa. > > > > 3. Child may not be orphan but he also fell in the trap and > > followed Buddhism there by turning down the hopes of > > mother and grandparents and the people. > > > > 4. Anybody can become a ruler but every ruler can't be > > a king. Only Kshatriya can be chosen as kings because they will never turn > their > > back till the end. It is a Kshatriya duty to protect the people living in > > the kingdom. He is responsible > > for all the mistakes (his own or > > people). So however good he was a king must > > experience (visit) the NARAK after > > the death whether it is natural or war based. Based on sin and virtue one > can secure a > > place in SWARG. Spending time in either swarg or narak (not just a king but > anybody) > > can attain a moksha after several lives > > based on their karma (sin or > > virtue). Now as a prince > > > > it’s "Buddha" duty to know > > the problems of the people and resolving them. There is absolutely nothing > wrong in it. But > > illness, old, and death are the forms of life not just for humans but any > living being. > > Being a prince he can make a poor into rich, he can give a better treatment > to the > > illness. It is the duty of the king. Instead of that the prince ran-out > of life and ruined everything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: S: - There are not so many castes and religions exist at that time when > > "Buddha" lived. Whatever "Buddha" found is very much there in Hindu > religion. The enlightenment didn't meat the eradication of old and death. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city Critiques & Collaborations > > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 1:28 PM > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > i am very small fry here dhatri. but even a certain individual who we refer > to buddha was silent when asked about a way. but i can give you a clue > though: how about looking inwards.i hope it helps. i hope i am not trying to > sound very mystical :P > > > > > > > Thanks anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:24 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam Chakravarhy, > > > > > > > > I posted what I know without exaggeration and there is nothing wrong > in it about culture,religion,territory by looking at the provocative > messages on this list. Your view about me is totally baseless because it is > made up with assumptions and guesses. If you know much about religion not > just hinduism etc., then please go ahead and write your postings. If > everybody took my messages so light then why should you worry so much and > feel it so depth? If anybody feel that somebody is going in wrong way then > they should show the right way not just saying "this is not the way". > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > > > > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:57 PM > > > > > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > > > > > I sincerely hope that you understand the word patience, peace first before > you start advising others. I did not find any one else' post disturbing as > yours because you were trying desperately to provoke. I guess most of the > readers do not even take you seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Anupam > > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is good to know that you are reading messages. But only my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages > > > > > > > > are so disturbing? or the content as a whole and postings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > this forum are disturbing?. I didn’t say I knew everything about anything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > I posted criticism against sarcastic nature of the messages but never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > abused. > > > > > > > > If you know anything better then you are open to post about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > with a signature "BEST ANUPAM" thereby giving your contribution to > > > > > > > > INDIA, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > of saying ‘SORRY’ by keeping in view of I quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > “> > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city Critiques & > > > > > > > > Collaborations”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > forum has already become a fish market with anti-Indian, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anti-national, > > > > > > > > anti-cultural, anti-democratic, anti-secular, anti-patriotic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anti-Hindu postings. > > > > > > > > If nobody feel they are rubbish then how can my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages > > > > > > > > are so rubbish and disturbing? I request you don’t assume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anything. Under my freedom of speech, > > > > > > > > rights etc., and your opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > linked > > > > > > > > to it with condemnation I will not approach any court, human > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > organization like amnesty etc., like most of the country men > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > not just in one area in the name of this and that now a days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > request you to teach PATIENCE to the population so that everybody > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > live in peace not approaching courts, human rights etc., under > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > n that for every reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANYWAY > > > > > > > > I NOTICED YOU POINT "NOT THIS WAY”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/14/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 3 IN 1 FESTIVAL SEASON > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 7:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear we wi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have been reading your replies on this forum. they are extremely > > > > > > > > disturbing and your questions provoke me to say something really nasty to > > > > > > > > you. however, over the time, i have learnt the ways of debating or > > > > > > > > discussing anything on this forum. please do not turn this forum into a > > > > > > > > market place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what i can sense from your replies is that you are some insecure zealot who > > > > > > > > is out here to post rubbish. i have doubts about your knowledge or hinduism > > > > > > > > or for that matter anything that you can contribute to this forum. i think > > > > > > > > you have not understood anything about any religion, and it is your > > > > > > > > impatience for not being the receptacle to a more freer form of knowledge > > > > > > > > about self and god, which making you post such things. i am sorry that i am > > > > > > > > assuming things on your behalf. i am not permitted to do so as every one > has > > > > > > > > the right to express but i am sure not this way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks Anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Sun Sep 19 16:32:38 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 04:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <625354.26128.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Anupam,      I don't know what position that Bipin trivedi hold but Bipin trivedi is correct.  There is no issue in Kashmir unless we make it as an issue. The freedom of speech is equal to all  the citizens of INDIA.  The control should come from homes, villages, towns, districts, cities, metros and states. As the time has changed the constitution should be amended accordingly and so as the polity with no powers to states like the one J&K misusing.  It can't be a model to others towards division. No comparisons but J&K as a WHOLE(including occupied territory with people)  shall be brought under common rule like any other state in India. Since it is our problem hence we are the solution makers.  Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupampan> chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: "Bipin Trivedi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:48 PM Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter > and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to > remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and > do not interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators,   Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March.  The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway.  Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings.  Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions.  Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information.  Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir.   This underlines the urgency for  the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 16:46:18 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:46:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <625354.26128.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <625354.26128.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Please send me your address Dhatri. From today onwards, I feel that you are consistently violating my right to existence, therefore, I, with some powers in my hand and certain loopholes in the constitution, will put a policeman in front of your house. I will tell the whole world that it is for your safety and security, whereas the policemen would be asked to keep a tight vigil on you. Moreover, the policemen is also given a free hand to pick up anyone and shoot anyone. The goal of the policeman: 1. ensure safety and security by all means, even if there are large number of persons asking too many questions and not accepting the authority of the gun. 2. to discipline people, alter their routines, to make sure no one is left to question the presence of the policemen and those who control them. 3. perpetuate the sense of emergency, so that those who control over the policemen, could routinely ask for aid in the name of the law and order. how do you perceive this situation? thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:32 PM, we wi wrote: > Anupam, > > I don't know what position that Bipin trivedi hold but Bipin trivedi > is correct. There is no issue in Kashmir unless we make it as an issue. The > freedom of speech is equal to all the citizens of INDIA. The control > should come from homes, villages, towns, districts, cities, metros and > states. As the time has changed the constitution should be amended > accordingly and so as the polity with no powers to states like the one J&K > misusing. It can't be a model to others towards division. No comparisons > but J&K as a > WHOLE(including occupied territory with people) shall be brought under > common rule like any > other state in India. Since it is our problem hence > we are the solution makers. > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupampan> chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: "Bipin Trivedi" , "sarai list" < > reader-list at sarai.net> > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:48 PM > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > > interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal > matter > > and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether > to > > remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business > and > > do not interfere. > > > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from > US, > > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely > prefer > > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and > > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: gautam navlakha > > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > > Deaths in Kashmir > > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Khurram Parvez > > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > > Kashmir > > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > > To: iteam at amnesty.org > > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > > > Dear friends > > > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > > > Best regards, > > South Asia Team > > Amnesty International > > International Secretariat > > 1 Easton Street > > London WC1X ODW > > United Kingdom > > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > > > http://www.amnesty.org > > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > > > 17 September 2010 > > > > * > > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect > for > > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > > police. > > > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > > of > > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > > life. > > > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by > the > > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > > at > > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting > in > > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call > to > > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > > to justice. > > > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > > injured > > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > > (CRPF) > > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones > at > > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked > two > > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been > under > > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > > the > > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > > suspended their work. > > > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > > as > > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role > of > > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > > curfew > > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > > their > > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues > of > > public concern. > > > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All > Party > > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > > Jammu > > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > > demonstrations. > > > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators > by > > security forces. > > > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > > (Jammu > > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few > of > > its districts. > > > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > > figure > > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > > on 20 September. > > > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > > impunity. > > > > Ends/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 > with > > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 19 18:20:08 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:20:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <625354.26128.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <625354.26128.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501cb57f9$336659d0$9a330d70$@in> Thanks for your consent. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of we wi Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:33 PM To: reader-list at sarai.net Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Anupam, I don't know what position that Bipin trivedi hold but Bipin trivedi is correct. There is no issue in Kashmir unless we make it as an issue. The freedom of speech is equal to all the citizens of INDIA. The control should come from homes, villages, towns, districts, cities, metros and states. As the time has changed the constitution should be amended accordingly and so as the polity with no powers to states like the one J&K misusing. It can't be a model to others towards division. No comparisons but J&K as a WHOLE(including occupied territory with people) shall be brought under common rule like any other state in India. Since it is our problem hence we are the solution makers. Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupampan> chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: "Bipin Trivedi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:48 PM Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter > and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to > remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and > do not interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From iram at sarai.net Sun Sep 19 18:46:30 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:16:30 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Open Day>> City as Studio: EXB 10.05 Message-ID: <4C960D2E.8000709@sarai.net> OPEN DAY>> City as Studio: EXB 10.05 The City as Studio exhibition platform is an artist run space for emerging and experimental contemporary art in the heart of Delhi. Rife with curious energy, open to new practices, sharp and finely tuned to the frequencies of a rapidly changing world and a transforming city. City as Studio is a space hospitable to all those who are willing to re-define art and life, speculate, fantasize, play and take the pulse of a critical time. The platform is closely associated with the 'City as Studio' programme for artists and practitioners at Sarai and committed to showcasing new work and processes on a regular basis. Time: 6: 30 pm Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010 Venue: Sarai CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi (5 min walk from the Civil Lines metro station) Exhibition Timings: 11 am and 5 pm, Monday to Friday. The exhibition runs till October 16 , 2010. Artists Tanya Goel Siddhartha Karawal Pradip Saha Also exhibiting postcards from the Delhi Commons postcard series Realised by Amitabh Kumar Produced at Sarai Media Lab, Sarai- CSDS, Delhi September 2010 From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 19 22:43:03 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:43:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> Message-ID: <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> Anupam, Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue Pakistan. But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after achieving freedom I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the lollipop of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of life would have been saved. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position.   Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not interfere. When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators,   Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March.  The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway.  Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings.  Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions.  Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information.  Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir.   This underlines the urgency for  the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Sep 19 22:56:16 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:26:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir Message-ID: <1565587615-1284917019-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1995610844-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: shuddha at sarai.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:24:39 To: Bipin Trivedi Reply-To: shuddha at sarai.net Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir For all your informations. Amnesty International takes very strong public positions agasinst the human rights abuses perpetrated against Iraqis by US forces and indeed against human rights abuses within the ambit of US prisons. When Bipin Trivedi makes false allegations against Amnesty International on this list he only reveals the extent of his ignorance and arrogance. Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Bipin Trivedi Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:43:03 To: 'anupam chakravartty' Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Anupam, Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue Pakistan. But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the lollipop of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of life would have been saved. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position.   Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not interfere. When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators,   Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March.  The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway.  Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings.  Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions.  Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information.  Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir.   This underlines the urgency for  the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 02:03:58 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 02:03:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> Message-ID: Bipin, I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be in the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment on every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that the ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not only in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not consider that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely, in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India thrives in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward would be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are however very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops or rescue work that was carried out during calamities. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > Pakistan. > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > lollipop > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation > will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > life would have been saved. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > don't > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not > interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From aliens at dataone.in Mon Sep 20 09:44:57 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:44:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <2094558388-1284916922-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1957174611-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <2094558388-1284916922-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1957174611-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <001201cb587a$642d83f0$2c888bd0$@in> Yes, you are right Amnesty takes strong public position against human rights, but after the actual war took place for wrong reason. Amnesty International is so powerful in US and they would have avert the war by putting pressure on US governement. Do you think Amnesty so powerful does not know the false reason created for war? They were knowing this very much still they allowed for war that is what objectionable. First allow to kill the people for false reason and then take strong action is just ridiculous. They are advising in India for take care of human rights, but I have not heard about their advise to separatists or terrorists to stop innocent killings. If you have read this provide me the link. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: shuddha at sarai.net [mailto:shuddha at sarai.net] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:55 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir For all your informations. Amnesty International takes very strong public positions agasinst the human rights abuses perpetrated against Iraqis by US forces and indeed against human rights abuses within the ambit of US prisons. When Bipin Trivedi makes false allegations against Amnesty International on this list he only reveals the extent of his ignorance and arrogance. Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Bipin Trivedi Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:43:03 To: 'anupam chakravartty' Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Anupam, Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue Pakistan. But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the lollipop of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of life would have been saved. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not interfere. When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Sep 20 13:01:36 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:31:36 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_39__NewMediaFest=2720?= =?iso-8859-1?q?10?= Message-ID: <20100920093136.C0D97681.A96A588A@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest'2010 ----------------------------------- program- week 39 --> 20 - 26 September 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1057 ----------------------------------- 1. ----------------------------------- Feature of the week 39 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1060 JavaMuseum Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art is happy to re-launch on occasion of NewMediaFest'2010 -I-Islands - Netart from UK and Ireland- ----------------------------------- 2. ----------------------------------- VideoChannel Cologne - is pleased to launch the Feature of the Month September 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1015 Fonlad Festival, Videolab Project Portugal and artvideoKOELN present Videoart from Portugal curated by Pedro Almeida & Sergio Gomes ----------------------------------- 3. ----------------------------------- Feature of the Month September 2010 on NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1017 SoundLAB VII - soundCELEBRATION was releasing on 1 September 2010, the 7th edition of SoundLAB in sequence since 2004, celebrating soundart at it's best on occasion of the 10th anniversáry of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]||cologne as the highlight of 7 years promoting soundart as a creative form of digital art. ----------------------------------- 4.. ----------------------------------- SIP - SoundLAB Interview Project http://sip.newmediafest.org/?p=414 is pleased to release the new interviews with Dario Elia (Italy) Alessandro de Caro (Italy) Ufuk Onen (Turkey) caycepollard (Brazil) Edorta Izarzugaza (Spain) Debra Petrovich (Australia) ----------------------------------- NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org ---------------------------------- From aliens at dataone.in Mon Sep 20 13:57:12 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:57:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir Message-ID: <000101cb589d$a0e73d90$e2b5b8b0$@in> Yes, you are right Amnesty takes strong public position against human rights, but after the actual war took place for wrong reason. Amnesty International is so powerful in US and they would have avert the war by putting pressure on US governement. Do you think Amnesty so powerful does not know the false reason created for war? They were knowing this very much still they allowed for war that is what objectionable. First allow to kill the people for false reason and then take strong action is just ridiculous. They are advising in India for take care of human rights, but I have not heard about their advise to separatists or terrorists to stop innocent killings. If you have read this provide me the link. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: shuddha at sarai.net [mailto:shuddha at sarai.net] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:55 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir For all your informations. Amnesty International takes very strong public positions agasinst the human rights abuses perpetrated against Iraqis by US forces and indeed against human rights abuses within the ambit of US prisons. When Bipin Trivedi makes false allegations against Amnesty International on this list he only reveals the extent of his ignorance and arrogance. Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Bipin Trivedi Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:43:03 To: 'anupam chakravartty' Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Anupam, Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue Pakistan. But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the lollipop of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of life would have been saved. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not interfere. When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Mon Sep 20 15:59:58 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 03:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Message-ID: <120184.34722.qm@web45507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Anupam,        Its not all about individual perceptions. The government can't teach the discipline but public should be responsible. The government duty is to protect its people and the territory.  Critiques always comment about the actions or inactions. That is why views/opinions/suggestions/advises are required not just from critiques but from everybody.    Regards, Srinivas. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: "we wi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 4:46 PM Please send me your address Dhatri. From today onwards, I feel that you are consistently violating my right to existence, therefore, I, with some powers in my hand and certain loopholes in the constitution, will put a policeman in front of your house. I will tell the whole world that it is for your safety and security, whereas the policemen would be asked to keep a tight vigil on you. Moreover, the policemen is also given a free hand to pick up anyone and shoot anyone. The goal of the policeman: 1. ensure safety and security by all means, even if there are large number of persons asking too many questions and not accepting the authority of the gun. 2. to discipline people, alter their routines, to make sure no one is left to question the presence of the policemen and those who control them. 3. perpetuate the sense of emergency, so that those who control over the policemen, could routinely ask for aid in the name of the law and order. how do you perceive this situation? thanks Anupam   On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:32 PM, we wi wrote: Anupam,      I don't know what position that Bipin trivedi hold but Bipin trivedi is correct.  There is no issue in Kashmir unless we make it as an issue. The freedom of speech is equal to all  the citizens of INDIA.  The control should come from homes, villages, towns, districts, cities, metros and states. As the time has changed the constitution should be amended accordingly and so as the polity with no powers to states like the one J&K misusing.  It can't be a model to others towards division. No comparisons but J&K as a WHOLE(including occupied territory with people)  shall be brought under common rule like any  other state in India. Since it is our problem hence we are the solution makers.  Regards, Dhatri. --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupampan> chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: "Bipin Trivedi" , "sarai list" Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:48 PM Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter > and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to > remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and > do not interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel  +44 (0) 20 7413 5500  +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators,   Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March.  The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway.  Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings.  Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions.  Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information.  Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir.   This underlines the urgency for  the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Sep 20 16:23:48 2010 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:53:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement-a pan Islamic roots Message-ID: The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to admit 'pan Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going Kashmiri scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on Kashmir takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by 'positions'.Here is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times New Delhi, September 18, 2010 Our secularism will withstand any opposition I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described again and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri elections were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, the army subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is determined to hang on by force to Kashmir. Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has begun to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes an India that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know we do not hold. In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not guided by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the overwhelming emotion when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of bewilderment. The vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and the demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? And what is it that they actually want? There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military presence in a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where curfew is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by the stories of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till 1989, Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went in only after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, after kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis thronged to Kashmir from across the border. Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, the State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule of law. Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. Indian soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. But each time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to increase. There is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be greeted by a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state violence in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say that they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army presence is unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. >From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average Kashmiri has the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian State spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is vastly greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average Bihari. Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has not been true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party (PDP)-government was legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference regime. Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that Indians who reside in other parts of the country do not have. We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of India — Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have managed to fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist sentiment. But what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this generation of Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession? More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris want. Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled Pakistan? Who wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of national collapse? Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi minorities well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a genocide. The Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a shining advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that America or any great power would support the creation of such a state. So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer but we suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular India, religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. We find the notion of a state founded only on religious identity old-fashioned and bizarre. But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from the Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim (after the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many takers. This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri separatists apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel no kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are now so fed up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our fears for the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this would not be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession would mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire to protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the world that India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack Kashmiri Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that the Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism survived that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may misrepresent our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Sep 20 16:27:08 2010 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:57:08 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My apologies.There is a minor correction in the subject line ,hence this repeated mail. Rgds all LA ------------------------------------ The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to admit 'pan Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going Kashmiri scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on Kashmir takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by 'positions'.Here is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times New Delhi, September 18, 2010 Our secularism will withstand any opposition I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described again and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri elections were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, the army subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is determined to hang on by force to Kashmir. Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has begun to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes an India that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know we do not hold. In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not guided by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the overwhelming emotion when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of bewilderment. The vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and the demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? And what is it that they actually want? There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military presence in a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where curfew is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by the stories of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till 1989, Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went in only after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, after kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis thronged to Kashmir from across the border. Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, the State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule of law. Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. Indian soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. But each time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to increase. There is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be greeted by a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state violence in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say that they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army presence is unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. >From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average Kashmiri has the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian State spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is vastly greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average Bihari. Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has not been true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party (PDP)-government was legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference regime. Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that Indians who reside in other parts of the country do not have. We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of India — Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have managed to fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist sentiment. But what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this generation of Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession? More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris want. Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled Pakistan? Who wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of national collapse? Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi minorities well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a genocide. The Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a shining advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that America or any great power would support the creation of such a state. So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer but we suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular India, religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. We find the notion of a state founded only on religious identity old-fashioned and bizarre. But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from the Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim (after the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many takers. This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri separatists apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel no kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are now so fed up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our fears for the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this would not be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession would mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire to protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the world that India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack Kashmiri Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that the Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism survived that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may misrepresent our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 16:49:51 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 16:49:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <120184.34722.qm@web45507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <120184.34722.qm@web45507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear We Wee/ Dhatri/Sriniwas, If you have more such convoluted arguments here to offer, please send them at one go. I have problems in understanding you. The other day you ask me whether i am some kind of an author/critic/writer? Today you are saying: "Critiques always comment about the actions or inactions. That is why views/opinions/suggestions/advises are required not just from critiques but from everybody." What shall I make of these statements? Anupam On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 3:59 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > Anupam, > > Its not all about individual perceptions. The government can't teach > the discipline but public should be responsible. The government duty is to > protect its people and the territory. Critiques always comment about the > actions or inactions. That is why views/opinions/suggestions/advises are > required not just from critiques but from everybody. > > Regards, > Srinivas. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 4:46 PM > > > Please send me your address Dhatri. From today onwards, I feel that you are > consistently violating my right to existence, therefore, I, with some powers > in my hand and certain loopholes in the constitution, will put a policeman > in front of your house. I will tell the whole world that it is for your > safety and security, whereas the policemen would be asked to keep a tight > vigil on you. Moreover, the policemen is also given a free hand to pick up > anyone and shoot anyone. > > The goal of the policeman: > > 1. ensure safety and security by all means, even if there are large number > of persons asking too many questions and not accepting the authority of the > gun. > > 2. to discipline people, alter their routines, to make sure no one is left > to question the presence of the policemen and those who control them. > > 3. perpetuate the sense of emergency, so that those who control over the > policemen, could routinely ask for aid in the name of the law and order. > > how do you perceive this situation? > > thanks Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:32 PM, we wi wrote: > > Anupam, > > I don't know what position that Bipin trivedi hold but Bipin trivedi > is correct. There is no issue in Kashmir unless we make it as an issue. The > freedom of speech is equal to all the citizens of INDIA. The control > should come from homes, villages, towns, districts, cities, metros and > states. As the time has changed the constitution should be amended > accordingly and so as the polity with no powers to states like the one J&K > misusing. It can't be a model to others towards division. No comparisons > but J&K as a > WHOLE(including occupied territory with people) shall be brought under > common rule like any > other state in India. Since it is our problem hence > we are the solution makers. > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupampan> chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: "Bipin Trivedi" , "sarai list" < > reader-list at sarai.net> > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:48 PM > > > > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > > interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal > matter > > and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether > to > > remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business > and > > do not interfere. > > > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from > US, > > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely > prefer > > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and > > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: gautam navlakha > > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > > Deaths in Kashmir > > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Khurram Parvez > > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > > Kashmir > > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > > To: iteam at amnesty.org > > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > > > Dear friends > > > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > > > Best regards, > > South Asia Team > > Amnesty International > > International Secretariat > > 1 Easton Street > > London WC1X ODW > > United Kingdom > > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > > > http://www.amnesty.org > > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > > > 17 September 2010 > > > > * > > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect > for > > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > > police. > > > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > > of > > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > > life. > > > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by > the > > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > > at > > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting > in > > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call > to > > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > > to justice. > > > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > > injured > > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > > (CRPF) > > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones > at > > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked > two > > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been > under > > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > > the > > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > > suspended their work. > > > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > > as > > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role > of > > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > > curfew > > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > > their > > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues > of > > public concern. > > > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All > Party > > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > > Jammu > > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > > demonstrations. > > > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators > by > > security forces. > > > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > > (Jammu > > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few > of > > its districts. > > > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > > figure > > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > > on 20 September. > > > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > > impunity. > > > > Ends/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 > with > > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 16:49:51 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 16:49:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <120184.34722.qm@web45507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <120184.34722.qm@web45507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear We Wee/ Dhatri/Sriniwas, If you have more such convoluted arguments here to offer, please send them at one go. I have problems in understanding you. The other day you ask me whether i am some kind of an author/critic/writer? Today you are saying: "Critiques always comment about the actions or inactions. That is why views/opinions/suggestions/advises are required not just from critiques but from everybody." What shall I make of these statements? Anupam On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 3:59 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > Anupam, > > Its not all about individual perceptions. The government can't teach > the discipline but public should be responsible. The government duty is to > protect its people and the territory. Critiques always comment about the > actions or inactions. That is why views/opinions/suggestions/advises are > required not just from critiques but from everybody. > > Regards, > Srinivas. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: "we wi" , "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 4:46 PM > > > Please send me your address Dhatri. From today onwards, I feel that you are > consistently violating my right to existence, therefore, I, with some powers > in my hand and certain loopholes in the constitution, will put a policeman > in front of your house. I will tell the whole world that it is for your > safety and security, whereas the policemen would be asked to keep a tight > vigil on you. Moreover, the policemen is also given a free hand to pick up > anyone and shoot anyone. > > The goal of the policeman: > > 1. ensure safety and security by all means, even if there are large number > of persons asking too many questions and not accepting the authority of the > gun. > > 2. to discipline people, alter their routines, to make sure no one is left > to question the presence of the policemen and those who control them. > > 3. perpetuate the sense of emergency, so that those who control over the > policemen, could routinely ask for aid in the name of the law and order. > > how do you perceive this situation? > > thanks Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:32 PM, we wi wrote: > > Anupam, > > I don't know what position that Bipin trivedi hold but Bipin trivedi > is correct. There is no issue in Kashmir unless we make it as an issue. The > freedom of speech is equal to all the citizens of INDIA. The control > should come from homes, villages, towns, districts, cities, metros and > states. As the time has changed the constitution should be amended > accordingly and so as the polity with no powers to states like the one J&K > misusing. It can't be a model to others towards division. No comparisons > but J&K as a > WHOLE(including occupied territory with people) shall be brought under > common rule like any > other state in India. Since it is our problem hence > we are the solution makers. > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, anupampan> chakravartty wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: "Bipin Trivedi" , "sarai list" < > reader-list at sarai.net> > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:48 PM > > > > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > > interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal > matter > > and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether > to > > remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business > and > > do not interfere. > > > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from > US, > > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely > prefer > > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and > > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: gautam navlakha > > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > > Deaths in Kashmir > > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Khurram Parvez > > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > > Kashmir > > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > > To: iteam at amnesty.org > > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > > > Dear friends > > > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > > > Best regards, > > South Asia Team > > Amnesty International > > International Secretariat > > 1 Easton Street > > London WC1X ODW > > United Kingdom > > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > > > http://www.amnesty.org > > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > > > 17 September 2010 > > > > * > > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect > for > > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > > police. > > > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > > of > > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > > life. > > > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by > the > > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > > at > > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting > in > > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call > to > > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > > to justice. > > > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > > injured > > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > > (CRPF) > > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones > at > > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked > two > > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been > under > > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > > the > > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > > suspended their work. > > > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > > as > > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role > of > > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > > curfew > > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > > their > > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues > of > > public concern. > > > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All > Party > > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > > Jammu > > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > > demonstrations. > > > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators > by > > security forces. > > > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > > (Jammu > > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few > of > > its districts. > > > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > > figure > > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > > on 20 September. > > > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > > impunity. > > > > Ends/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 > with > > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 21:08:27 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:08:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Lalit I have written it earlier also but i repeat, not for you also but many KP brothers who are fond of speaking about exodus as and when there is any opportunity. well, recently i met a KP friend who was quite upset with Aditya Raj Kaul who remained mum during a TV discussion ( some Times channel ) on exodus of KPs from valley in 90. It was some Sikh representative, Mr.Jagat Singh ( perhaps ) who said that KPs left the valley on their own. which was music to Bilal Lone, the other conversant in the room. May be Mr. Aditya Raj Koul ji can clarify it in detail. The discussion was about the recent threat to Sikh community by some elements who wanted them leave the valley. I see little TV myself...so dont know the exact thing... On the other hand, i maintain the fact that KPs had to leave the valley in 1990 because there was a genuine threat to life and dignity, given the fact that many innocent KPs were killed. Jagmohan indeed provided curfew relaxation to those who wanted to leave, but he is not the core player of KP exodus. However, the contradiction remain that GOI was knowing it all from word go, and remained silent spectators to worsening situation... it is still mystery to me... ( in other words i see GOI as a direct cause of KP exodus, not only historically but in 1990 as well ) It is the same Aditya who said Geelani hoon hia hia, atJantar Mantar recently, ( Down with Geelaii dog ) which i found utterly unparliamentary since i have never heard SAS Geelani saying such things openly to KPs ( this i am saying after i have deep problems with his only religious political card for Kashmir conflict ) It is the same SAS Geelani who is refusing indian Home Minister to meet. I wrote earlier also that Chidambaram would go to Kashmir and knock his door for a meeting for peace...Where does RIK people stand, politically... But Geelani sahib is not the only one who represents Kashmir conflict at the core. there are others, and there are people in general who represent themselves now... see how SAS Geelani's call for hartal was rejected recently..... it is not easy for GOI to cut a deal with Huriyat even... so where do KPs hard core anti KM politics stand.... Well, KPs right now facing cultural identity crises at the moment... They are rapidly realizing that there will no Kashmiiri seapking boy or girl after one or two decades down the line. If there will be anybody able to recite Lad Ded or Krishan joo razdan, it will be KM from valley... so what use to unfurl Tricolour in front of people protesting about the recent killings at Jantar Mantar. The best thing KPs can do is to reconnect themselves with KM's in the valley and restore cultural links... the situation is quite different from 1990, things can change if KP love their language, heritage, music, poetry... sorry not this Nationalism.. which is of no use in deeper sense.... believe me... that is the only real thing i feel, if KP begin with anything positive..... that way they can dream to return back, even... seemingly the conflict is between Govt of India and the people of kashmir, so KP ought to give time to the most vital thing... the real kashmir is also about its ancient echos, not Hindu religous identity alone... that too will be political.. but we need guts I know you will point out the fact that KPs too are kashmirs. but i want to know how, not only in the present, but after2 or three decades... with love is On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > My apologies.There is a minor correction in the subject line ,hence this repeated mail. > > Rgds all > > LA > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to admit  'pan Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going Kashmiri scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on Kashmir takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by 'positions'.Here is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: > > > > > > > > >  Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times > > New Delhi, September 18, 2010 >                                               Our secularism will withstand any opposition > I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described again and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. > By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri elections were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, the army subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. > Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is determined to hang on by force to Kashmir. > Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has begun to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes an India that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know we do not hold. > In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not guided by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the overwhelming emotion when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of bewilderment. The vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and the demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? And what is it that they actually want? > There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military presence in a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where curfew is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by the stories of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. > But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till 1989, Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went in only after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, after kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis thronged to Kashmir from across the border. > Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, the State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule of law. > Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. Indian soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. But each time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to increase. There is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be greeted by a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. > Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state violence in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say that they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army presence is unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. > From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average Kashmiri has the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian State spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is vastly greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average Bihari. > Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has not been true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party (PDP)-government was legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference regime. Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that Indians who reside in other parts of the country do not have. > We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of India — Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have managed to fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist sentiment. But what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this generation of Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession? > More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris want. Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled Pakistan? Who wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of national collapse? > Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi minorities well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a genocide. The Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a shining advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. > Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that America or any great power would support the creation of such a state. > So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer but we suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular India, religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. We find the notion of a state founded only on religious identity old-fashioned and bizarre. > But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from the Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim (after the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many takers. This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri separatists apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel no kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. > But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are now so fed up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our fears for the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this would not be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession would mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. > Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire to protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the world that India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack Kashmiri Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that the Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism survived that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may misrepresent our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph again. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 01:16:55 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:16:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How To Dispose Dead Bodies Message-ID: Cremation is a very environment unfriendly way of dead body disposal. Apart from the huge wastage of energy involved, about 200-300 kg of carbon-dioxide gets released into the atmosphere from each dead body. Temperatures up to 1000C are often required in the furnace. Burial is relatively much better, but not viable due to shortage of space. Aquamation is a far better process which converts the body into high quality liquid fertilizers and a little ash (transformed bone powder). Basically the body is put into a stainless steel cylinder with hot water (~90C) and potash. The process takes about 4 hrs to complete. We should take steps to set up aquamation and similar facilities all over the country to reduce environmental pollution. Saffron, Jihadi and other terrorists and imperialists may not be particularly agreeable to such schemes. If such schemes get implemented, then saffron terrorists may be forced to burn their dead within the house - one way is to make a pyre near the bathroom door, open the tap to simulate the Ganges and burn the dead body to a cinder, and dump the 'ashes' into the drain. This way no 'atma would be left dangling its arse'. Jihadi terrorists may thinking of digging deep pits in their homes and burying their dead. This is not recommendable as modern houses may fall upon them. Instead if they live in flats on the second or higher multi-storied buildings, they should consider digging the floor and bury the dead, and have jihad as well :) What about other terrorists and imperialists? Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Sep 21 01:22:27 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:22:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <001201cb587a$642d83f0$2c888bd0$@in> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <2094558388-1284916922-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1957174611-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> <001201cb587a$642d83f0$2c888bd0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin Trivedi, Once again, I appeal to you to not continue to embarass us with your ignorance. Amnesty International and several other such organizations, such as Human Right Watch, have consistently opposed the United States' conduct of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Amnesty routinely takes up the causes of prisoners illegaly detained by the US military in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, as well as detenus (of all kinds) in the prison system within the United States. Amnesty has a limited mandate, to monitor and campaign against human rights violations. That is its job and that is what it does. To accuse it of 'not acting against the war in Iraq' is a bit like asking a neuro surgen why he is not working on a cure against lung cancer. It acts against those dimensions of the conduct of the war in Iraq that concern the specific human rights violations of combatants and non-combatants that arise out of the conduct of the war.There are other organizations that are committed to opposing the war in general. They, for instance do not concern themselves with specific human rights questions in the way that Amnesty does. This is only sensible, as there is only so much that an organization given the limitations of time and resources can afford to do. For your information. Amnesty does not appeal to governments alone. It asks insurgents as much as governments to respect human rights. It condemns all forms of capital punishment and torture, as well as 'extra-judicial killings' regardless of whether they are carried out by the state or by non state actors. Amnesty was amongst the first to condemn the assasination of Hriday Nath Wanchoo, the respected Kashmiri Pandit human rights lawyer. http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/ASA20/057/1992/en An Amnesty International delegation that went to Kashmir earlier this year, met with representatives of Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs still living in the Kashmir valley and took note of their concerns. http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_amnesty-team-meets-kashmiri- pandits_1385107 And recently, Amnesty International has criticised 'executions' of captive policemen by the Communist Party of India (Maoist). http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article614211.ece I hope this persuades you to not deliver your knee jerk reactions that presuppose that anyone who criticizes the conduct of the Indian state must automatically be turning a blind eye to the human rights violations carried out by others (including those who are antagoniststs of the Indian state.) best Shuddha On 20-Sep-10, at 9:44 AM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Yes, you are right Amnesty takes strong public position against > human rights, but after the actual war took place for wrong reason. > Amnesty International is so powerful in US and they would have > avert the war by putting pressure on US governement. Do you think > Amnesty so powerful does not know the false reason created for war? > They were knowing this very much still they allowed for war that is > what objectionable. First allow to kill the people for false reason > and then take strong action is just ridiculous. > > They are advising in India for take care of human rights, but I > have not heard about their advise to separatists or terrorists to > stop innocent killings. If you have read this provide me the link. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: shuddha at sarai.net [mailto:shuddha at sarai.net] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:55 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > For all your informations. Amnesty International takes very strong > public positions agasinst the human rights abuses perpetrated > against Iraqis by US forces and indeed against human rights abuses > within the ambit of US prisons. When Bipin Trivedi makes false > allegations against Amnesty International on this list he only > reveals the extent of his ignorance and arrogance. > Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bipin Trivedi > Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:43:03 > To: 'anupam chakravartty' > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Anupam, > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and > preserve their > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get > away our > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > Pakistan. > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If > that is > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people > reflects in > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, > people of > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to > alert the > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > lollipop > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your > situation > will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they > possess > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows > that this > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. > At that > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than > lot of > life would have been saved. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you > explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all > those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your > freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that > after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate > their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state > be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no > please do not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its > people, things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison > breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's > security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded > manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think > the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International > when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, > where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored > by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call > "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal > but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and > hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that > are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the > debate about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of > this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of > content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically > flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is > not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of > persons. Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the > side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own > sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be > referred to as a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I > cannot see the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few > tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These > are very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in > last one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar > positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter > and don't > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to > remove > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business > and do not > interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces > do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever > comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent > power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than > total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart > they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate > state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at > present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think > that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging > from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will > definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of > state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley > only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of > azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to > free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian > continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list- > bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in > Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure > respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International > urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not > to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the > minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent > threat of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal > use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke > out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly > by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings > have been at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by > shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its > call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 > others injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police > Force (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled > stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn > the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators > attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have > been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of > strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed > Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the > paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to > report on the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers > have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only > be such as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be > consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key > role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of > expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty > International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can > obtain curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying > out their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on > issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the > All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations > in Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian > authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla > district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by > security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of > demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed > Forces (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army > camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security > forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The > Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a > few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear > to figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings > unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely > happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number > 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept > legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and > do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless > specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be > monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Sep 21 02:49:29 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 02:49:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Full Text of the Joint Memorandum given by the Mirwaiz and Yasin Malik to the APD visiting Kashmir Message-ID: Dear All, Below is the full text of the memorandum given by Mirwaiz Umar Farooq (APHC-M) and Yasin Malik (JKLF) to the representatives of the All Party Delegation from New Delhi that came calling on them in Srinagar. The memorandum (published in The Hindu) is reasonable, beyond doubt. The call for two parallel Kashmir Committees in India and Pakistan which can begin a process of resolving the Kashmir question in dialogue with Kashmiri people on both sides of the Line of Control is a very positive development, and can contribute to ending the cycle of violence. Elsewhere, SAS Geelani (APHC-G) has also handed in his 5 point formula (for beginning negotiations) to the members of the APD to pass on (again) to the Government of India. Now it is up to the APD to convince the Government of India to see reason. Can they be prevailed upon to do so? And it is also up to the Government of India to demonstrate how reasonable it can be in response to this. Readers may also be interested in a detailed report in the Greater Kashmir newspaper's website on the meetings that members of the APD had with the Mirwaiz, Malik and SAS Geelani. The decision on the part of the separatist leadership to meet with the delegates from the APD was a very intelligent one, because it ensured total transparency of the process. see - http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/21/apd-reaches-out- to-separatists-10.asp best, Shuddha ---------- Full text of the joint memorandum submitted by Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Yasin Malik The Hindu, September 20, 2010 http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/article738521.ece “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic proposition that the future of Kashmir is going to be decided finally by the goodwill and pleasure of her people. The goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is of no importance in this matter, not because this Parliament does not have the strength to decide the question of Kashmir but because any kind of imposition would be against the principles that this Parliament holds. “Kashmir is very close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not wish to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep them against their will, however painful it may be to us… However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose ourselves on them on the point of the bayonet.” — Jawaharlal Nehru, Speech to the Indian Parliament, August 7, 1952 “When a question becomes an international question like the Kashmir question, this Parliament can take many steps, of course, but it cannot solve the international part of it... the accession of Kashmir to India... was in that sense complete, not subject to anything except subject to the goodwill of the people of Kashmir... It is a very important thing and by that declaration we are going to stand. It is left to their decision... Now it is before an international forum and how can I or this Parliament take it away?” — Jawaharlal Nehru, Speech to the Indian Parliament, March 25, 1952 The All-Party Delegation from Delhi comes to Srinagar on the heels of some of the most vexed circumstances that Jammu & Kashmir has faced. The assault on the life and dignity of the average Kashmiri has been relentless. Daily life in our homes and streets has been turned into a nightmare as an entire population is treated as hostages on their own soil. Just a simple act of stepping out of our own houses has been turned into an act fraught with danger, threat and menace with unprecedented prolongation of the brutal curfew, ruthless persecution, topped up by some of the most uncivilized acts by a nation that claims to abide by democratic practice and the rule of law. The blockading of food, fuel and medical supplies with even life- saving drugs and ambulances being prevented from reaching their destinations, nocturnal raids and illegal detention of children and teenagers, clampdown on the local media and thrashing of media persons in recent days, is clearly an attempt at bullying and humiliating the Kashmiri population with base and inhuman tactics employed earlier only by rogue regimes in some notorious instances of international shame like in Kampuchea, Bosnia Palestine and Sri Lanka. We cannot help but feel that we Kashmiris have been corralled into a concentration camp of concertina wires, jack-booted surveillance and vengeful assault by the Indian State, which deliberately chooses to deny this part of its ‘claimed’ nation the constitutional guarantee of ‘the Right to Life’. And we have not even begun talking yet about the more than 100 Kashmiri youngsters senselessly but brutally killed by the Indian security forces in just over 100 days. It follows the thousands of lives already lost over the past decades due to the unresolved Kashmir Dispute. All this precipitates your visit today. We had hoped the 21st Century would offer our children a new world of opportunities. Indeed, both Prime Ministers Atal Behari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh gave us reason to hope for an honourable and lasting solution to the Kashmir Dispute through their multiple public declarations on Kashmir. We believe these statements represented not only their personal or partisan views but a commitment on behalf of the Indian people which your delegation today now represents. We started this decade with the intention of engaging in a meaningful process to resolve the Kashmir Issue and we continue to be committed to that objective. However, for the people of Jammu & Kashmir, this first decade of the century has only been one of continued human misery, unfulfilled promises, false hopes and failed efforts to resolve the issue. Failure has bred cynicism and destroyed hope. In recent times, the struggle in Kashmir has transformed from a violent to a non-violent movement and the new generation has adopted the mode of democratic protest rather than the gun to voice its aspiration. It leaves us shocked and resentful that rather than listening to and engaging with this call from the streets of Kashmir, India is responding to it with bullets and violence. We are at a threshold and it is vital that a new generation of Kashmiris should not be pushed to the wall. Dialogue and negotiation must come to the front, not a new chapter of violence and instability. Nobody will gain and we will all lose, if such a situation develops. The passage of time over the past 63 years has, in fact, made the Kashmir Problem more, rather than less, intractable. Allowing this dispute to fester will only extract increasing human costs from the people of Jammu & Kashmir and, for that matter, the people of India and Pakistan. Frankly, today we hope to make a break from the past. What we have seen for the last 63 years and what we are seeing in the current bloodshed is an aggregation of failed approaches. Above all we are seeing a failure to develop and evolve a sustainable, purposeful, results-oriented process of dialogue and negotiation aimed at tangibly resolving core issues rather than dealing with the crisis of the day. We are concerned that domestic politicking in India has again started to create hurdles on the way to developing a meaningful process of negotiation. This has been a phenomenon right from the inception of the Kashmir Conflict. Due to domestic politics in both India and Pakistan, the windows for working towards a solution to Kashmir have been narrowed or interrupted and, as a result, the people of Jammu & Kashmir have had to suffer dearly. It is disconcerting that today the BJP has taken a hard line on Kashmir. This is the same party whose veteran leader Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee went to Lahore and declared from the base of Minar-e-Pakistan: "It is my dream and wish to resolve the Kashmir Issue." This is the same BJP who initiated peace talks with the then united APHC under the chairmanship of Syed Ali Shah Geelani. This is the same party that engaged Hizbul Mujahideen in a cease-fire and talks process in the Summer of 2000. This is the same BJP that declared a unilateral cease-fire in the Month of Ramadhan and then offered talks "under the constitution of Insaniyat". This is the same BJP whose Prime Minister Vajpayee laid out an inspiring agenda on Kashmir from Kumarakom on January 2, 2001: "We shall not traverse solely on the beaten track of the past. Rather, we shall be bold and innovative designers of a future architecture of peace and prosperity for the entire South Asian region". We are now disheartened to see the same party advocating a contrary view as the principal Opposition in the Indian Parliament. It is time to develop a peace process on Kashmir that is immune to domestic politics and power tussles, both in India and Pakistan. On many occasions, in 2004 and again in 2006 from Amritsar, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh talked boldly about engaging in an irreversible process of dialogue to reach a political solution on Kashmir. We are concerned that the recent statements of the Prime Minister suggest that the Kashmir Problem is being seen as a matter of unemployment and that conditions are being imposed on the dialogue process. For an entire generation, more than 20 years, we have engaged in multiple exercises of dialogue and talks with the Government of India. We took risks to do so and some amongst us sacrificed their lives to tread the path of peacemaking, while others amongst us paid with our credibility. we give some suggestions with a view to generating a favourable political climate for a purposeful dialogue like (a) revocation of draconian laws, (b) release of political prisoners (c) withdrawal of troops and (d) zero tolerance for human rights etc but these suggestions were not taken seriously. We are now wary that your visit today, however well-intentioned, represents only an effort at short-term crisis management and that there is no clear commitment nor path towards effective resolution of the Kashmir Issue and addressing the aspirations and interests of the people of Jammu & Kashmir. We have seen in the past that it is only when a major crisis erupts that visible efforts are made to engage and understand our aspirations. And as soon as the immediate crisis subsides, the demonstrated and inherent political complacency and negligence is restored. Today in light of the concerns expressed above and to voice our unequivocal condemnation of the killings of our children and youth, we choose not to meet with your delegation Today, we ask not for unilateral political concessions but rather a joint commitment to a meaningful process that guarantees results. We believe this is possible only if serious efforts are made to create a conducive environment for dialogue by removal of the harsh and repressive measures that are in force here, to suppress our aspirations and our fundamental democratic rights. We look forward to entering into a dialogue based on the following shared commitments: To create a beginning and to sustain the process of dialogue we need to create a process in which all views and options – most of all Kashmiri aspirations will be considered and explored before arriving at an acceptable solution. Let resolving the Kashmir Dispute in accordance with aspirations of the people of Jammu & Kashmir become a Common Minimum Programme shared by all political parties in India and in Pakistan. Achieving a solution to the Kashmir Issue should now rise above vote bank politics and be taken up as a national agenda shared by all, worked for by all, and risked for by all major political parties of India. Let the Government of India act on the suggestions given by the Kashmiris and facilitate to establish and empower an official body, a Kashmir Committee, consisting of senior representatives of all major Indian political parties to develop and enter into a process of engagement with the representatives of the people of Jammu & Kashmir. Let this process be transparent designed to deliver a negotiated solution to the Kashmir Issue that is mutually worked towards by and acceptable to all parties concerned. We believe that a similar Kashmir Committee, bringing together all political forces, should also be established in Pakistan. We will advocate to the political parties in Pakistan that this be done. This will ensure that all major political forces in India and Pakistan are on board with the peace process and it will help institutionalize and sustain the process to resolve the Kashmir Problem. We must render the process immune from domestic politics and tendencies to act as spoilers On our part we are ready and willing to engage and sustain a meaningful and irreversible process of dialogue designed to avoid the failures of the past and to jointly develop and implement a solution to the Kashmir Dispute that is acceptable to all sides – India,Pakistan and above all the people of J&K Sincerely, SD/ Mirwaiz Umar Farooq All Parties Hurriyat Conference SD/ Muhammad Yasin Malik Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Sep 21 03:08:35 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:08:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Human Rights Violations in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir Message-ID: Dear All, This is jut to remind ourselves, (and all those who harbour illusions about Pakistan in Kashmir) that it isn't just IOK, that is occupied, POK is too. See the excellent report (from 2006) by Human Rights Watch on the situation in the part of Kashmir occupied by Pakistan titled - 'With Friends Like These...Human Rights Violations in Azad Kashmir' http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,HRW,COUNTRYREP,PAK,, 4517b1a14,0.html best, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 08:16:52 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:16:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Full Text of the Joint Memorandum given by the Mirwaiz and Yasin Malik to the APD visiting Kashmir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The decision on the part of the separatist leadership to > meet with the delegates from the APD was a very intelligent one, because it > ensured total transparency of the process. That's not what happened at all. They announced that they would NOT meet the APD, but the APD formed smaller groups that went and called on the separatists regardless. In the end the separatists were happy to receive them. Even SAS Geelani couldn't stop smiling. :) On 21/09/10 2:49 AM, "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" wrote: > Dear All, Below is the full text of the memorandum given by Mirwaiz Umar > Farooq (APHC-M) and Yasin Malik (JKLF) to the representatives of the All > Party Delegation from New Delhi that came calling on them in Srinagar. The > memorandum (published in The Hindu) is reasonable, beyond doubt. The call > for two parallel Kashmir Committees in India and Pakistan which can begin a > process of resolving the Kashmir question in dialogue with Kashmiri people > on both sides of the Line of Control is a very positive development, and can > contribute to ending the cycle of violence. Elsewhere, SAS Geelani (APHC-G) > has also handed in his 5 point formula (for beginning negotiations) to the > members of the APD to pass on (again) to the Government of India. Now it is > up to the APD to convince the Government of India to see reason. Can they be > prevailed upon to do so? And it is also up to the Government of India to > demonstrate how reasonable it can be in response to this. Readers may also > be interested in a detailed report in the Greater Kashmir newspaper's > website on the meetings that members of the APD had with the Mirwaiz, Malik > and SAS Geelani. The decision on the part of the separatist leadership to > meet with the delegates from the APD was a very intelligent one, because it > ensured total transparency of the process. see - > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/21/apd-reaches-out- > to-separatists-10.asp best, Shuddha ---------- Full text of the joint > memorandum submitted by Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Yasin Malik The Hindu, > September 20, > 2010 http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/article738521.ece ³Let me say > clearly that we accept the basic proposition that the future of Kashmir is > going to be decided finally by the goodwill and pleasure of her people. The > goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does not have the strength to decide the > question of Kashmir but because any kind of imposition would be against the > principles that this Parliament holds. ³Kashmir is very close to our minds > and hearts and if by some decree or adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of > India, it will be a wrench and a pain and torment for us. If, however, the > people of Kashmir do not wish to remain with us, let them go by all means. > We will not keep them against their will, however painful it may be to usŠ > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay against the > wishes of the people. We are not going to impose ourselves on them on the > point of the bayonet.² ‹ Jawaharlal Nehru, Speech to the Indian Parliament, > August 7, 1952 ³When a question becomes an international question like the > Kashmir question, this Parliament can take many steps, of course, but it > cannot solve the international part of it... the accession of Kashmir to > India... was in that sense complete, not subject to anything except subject > to the goodwill of the people of Kashmir... It is a very important thing and > by that declaration we are going to stand. It is left to their decision... > Now it is before an international forum and how can I or this Parliament > take it away?² ‹ Jawaharlal Nehru, Speech to the Indian Parliament, March > 25, 1952 The All-Party Delegation from Delhi comes to Srinagar on the heels > of some of the most vexed circumstances that Jammu & Kashmir has faced. > The assault on the life and dignity of the average Kashmiri has been > relentless. Daily life in our homes and streets has been turned into a > nightmare as an entire population is treated as hostages on their own > soil. Just a simple act of stepping out of our own houses has been turned > into an act fraught with danger, threat and menace with unprecedented > prolongation of the brutal curfew, ruthless persecution, topped up by some > of the most uncivilized acts by a nation that claims to abide by democratic > practice and the rule of law. The blockading of food, fuel and medical > supplies with even life- saving drugs and ambulances being prevented from > reaching their destinations, nocturnal raids and illegal detention of > children and teenagers, clampdown on the local media and thrashing of media > persons in recent days, is clearly an attempt at bullying and humiliating > the Kashmiri population with base and inhuman tactics employed earlier only > by rogue regimes in some notorious instances of international shame like in > Kampuchea, Bosnia Palestine and Sri Lanka. We cannot help but feel that we > Kashmiris have been corralled into a concentration camp of concertina wires, > jack-booted surveillance and vengeful assault by the Indian State, which > deliberately chooses to deny this part of its Œclaimed¹ nation the > constitutional guarantee of Œthe Right to Life¹. And we have not even begun > talking yet about the more than 100 Kashmiri youngsters senselessly but > brutally killed by the Indian security forces in just over 100 days. It > follows the thousands of lives already lost over the past decades due to the > unresolved Kashmir Dispute. All this precipitates your visit today. We had > hoped the 21st Century would offer our children a new world of > opportunities. Indeed, both Prime Ministers Atal Behari Vajpayee and > Manmohan Singh gave us reason to hope for an honourable and lasting > solution to the Kashmir Dispute through their multiple public declarations > on Kashmir. We believe these statements represented not only their personal > or partisan views but a commitment on behalf of the Indian people which your > delegation today now represents. We started this decade with the intention of > engaging in a meaningful process to resolve the Kashmir Issue and we > continue to be committed to that objective. However, for the people of Jammu > & Kashmir, this first decade of the century has only been one of continued > human misery, unfulfilled promises, false hopes and failed efforts to > resolve the issue. Failure has bred cynicism and destroyed hope. In recent > times, the struggle in Kashmir has transformed from a violent to a > non-violent movement and the new generation has adopted the mode of > democratic protest rather than the gun to voice its aspiration. It leaves us > shocked and resentful that rather than listening to and engaging with this > call from the streets of Kashmir, India is responding to it with bullets and > violence. We are at a threshold and it is vital that a new generation of > Kashmiris should not be pushed to the wall. Dialogue and negotiation must > come to the front, not a new chapter of violence and instability. Nobody > will gain and we will all lose, if such a situation develops. The passage > of time over the past 63 years has, in fact, made the Kashmir Problem more, > rather than less, intractable. Allowing this dispute to fester will only > extract increasing human costs from the people of Jammu & Kashmir and, for > that matter, the people of India and Pakistan. Frankly, today we hope to > make a break from the past. What we have seen for the last 63 years and what > we are seeing in the current bloodshed is an aggregation of failed > approaches. Above all we are seeing a failure to develop and evolve a > sustainable, purposeful, results-oriented process of dialogue and > negotiation aimed at tangibly resolving core issues rather than dealing with > the crisis of the day. We are concerned that domestic politicking in India > has again started to create hurdles on the way to developing a meaningful > process of negotiation. This has been a phenomenon right from the inception > of the Kashmir Conflict. Due to domestic politics in both India and > Pakistan, the windows for working towards a solution to Kashmir have been > narrowed or interrupted and, as a result, the people of Jammu & Kashmir have > had to suffer dearly. It is disconcerting that today the BJP has taken a hard > line on Kashmir. This is the same party whose veteran leader Prime Minister > Atal Behari Vajpayee went to Lahore and declared from the base of > Minar-e-Pakistan: "It is my dream and wish to resolve the Kashmir Issue." > This is the same BJP who initiated peace talks with the then united APHC > under the chairmanship of Syed Ali Shah Geelani. This is the same party that > engaged Hizbul Mujahideen in a cease-fire and talks process in the Summer of > 2000. This is the same BJP that declared a unilateral cease-fire in the > Month of Ramadhan and then offered talks "under the constitution of > Insaniyat". This is the same BJP whose Prime Minister Vajpayee laid out an > inspiring agenda on Kashmir from Kumarakom on January 2, 2001: "We shall not > traverse solely on the beaten track of the past. Rather, we shall be bold > and innovative designers of a future architecture of peace and prosperity > for the entire South Asian region". We are now disheartened to see the same > party advocating a contrary view as the principal Opposition in the Indian > Parliament. It is time to develop a peace process on Kashmir that is immune > to domestic politics and power tussles, both in India and Pakistan. On many > occasions, in 2004 and again in 2006 from Amritsar, Prime Minister Manmohan > Singh talked boldly about engaging in an irreversible process of dialogue to > reach a political solution on Kashmir. We are concerned that the recent > statements of the Prime Minister suggest that the Kashmir Problem is being > seen as a matter of unemployment and that conditions are being imposed on > the dialogue process. For an entire generation, more than 20 years, we have > engaged in multiple exercises of dialogue and talks with the Government of > India. We took risks to do so and some amongst us sacrificed their lives to > tread the path of peacemaking, while others amongst us paid with our > credibility. we give some suggestions with a view to generating a favourable > political climate for a purposeful dialogue like (a) revocation of draconian > laws, (b) release of political prisoners (c) withdrawal of troops and (d) > zero tolerance for human rights etc but these suggestions were not taken > seriously. We are now wary that your visit today, however well-intentioned, > represents only an effort at short-term crisis management and that there is > no clear commitment nor path towards effective resolution of the Kashmir > Issue and addressing the aspirations and interests of the people of Jammu & > Kashmir. We have seen in the past that it is only when a major crisis erupts > that visible efforts are made to engage and understand our aspirations. And > as soon as the immediate crisis subsides, the demonstrated and inherent > political complacency and negligence is restored. Today in light of the > concerns expressed above and to voice our unequivocal condemnation of the > killings of our children and youth, we choose not to meet with your > delegation Today, we ask not for unilateral political concessions but rather > a joint commitment to a meaningful process that guarantees results. We > believe this is possible only if serious efforts are made to create a > conducive environment for dialogue by removal of the harsh and repressive > measures that are in force here, to suppress our aspirations and our > fundamental democratic rights. We look forward to entering into a dialogue > based on the following shared commitments: To create a beginning and to > sustain the process of dialogue we need to create a process in which all > views and options ­ most of all Kashmiri aspirations will be considered and > explored before arriving at an acceptable solution. Let resolving the > Kashmir Dispute in accordance with aspirations of the people of Jammu & > Kashmir become a Common Minimum Programme shared by all political parties in > India and in Pakistan. Achieving a solution to the Kashmir Issue should now > rise above vote bank politics and be taken up as a national agenda shared by > all, worked for by all, and risked for by all major political parties of > India. Let the Government of India act on the suggestions given by the > Kashmiris and facilitate to establish and empower an official body, a > Kashmir Committee, consisting of senior representatives of all major Indian > political parties to develop and enter into a process of engagement with the > representatives of the people of Jammu & Kashmir. Let this process be > transparent designed to deliver a negotiated solution to the Kashmir Issue > that is mutually worked towards by and acceptable to all parties > concerned. We believe that a similar Kashmir Committee, bringing together all > political forces, should also be established in Pakistan. We will advocate > to the political parties in Pakistan that this be done. This will ensure > that all major political forces in India and Pakistan are on board with the > peace process and it will help institutionalize and sustain the process to > resolve the Kashmir Problem. We must render the process immune from domestic > politics and tendencies to act as spoilers On our part we are ready and > willing to engage and sustain a meaningful and irreversible process of > dialogue designed to avoid the failures of the past and to jointly develop > and implement a solution to the Kashmir Dispute that is acceptable to all > sides ­ India,Pakistan and above all the people of > J&K Sincerely, SD/ Mirwaiz Umar Farooq All Parties Hurriyat > Conference SD/ Muhammad Yasin Malik Jammu Kashmir Liberation > Front Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media > Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net _____ > ____________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 21 13:45:26 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Human Rights Violations in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <716622.10426.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha   Calling it Pakistan Occupied Kashmir is as trite as calling another part Indian Occupied Kashmir.   Use of such tags has a place in propagandist essaying of the situation but does little towards increase in understanding of the realities of the present and the past of the 'Kashmir' issue, which is not of just the Kashmir Valley.   My comment is valid only if there is a serious interest and not a propagandist motive   Kshmendra         --- On Tue, 9/21/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Subject: [Reader-list] Human Rights Violations in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir To: "sarai-list List" Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 3:08 AM Dear All, This is jut to remind ourselves, (and all those who harbour illusions about Pakistan in Kashmir) that it isn't just IOK, that is occupied, POK is too. See the excellent report (from 2006) by Human Rights Watch on the situation in the part of Kashmir occupied by Pakistan titled - 'With Friends Like These...Human Rights Violations in Azad Kashmir' http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,HRW,COUNTRYREP,PAK,,4517b1a14,0.html best, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 17:23:36 2010 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 17:23:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Monbiot piece Message-ID: Climate change enlightenment was fun while it lasted. But now it's dead The collapse of the talks at Copenhagen took away all momentum for change and the lobbyists are back in control. So what next? The closer it comes, the worse it looks. The best outcome anyone now expects from December's climate summit in Mexico is that some delegates might stay awake during the meetings. When talks fail once, as they did in Copenhagen, governments lose interest. They don't want to be associated with failure, they don't want to pour time and energy into a broken process. Nine years after the world trade negotiations moved to Mexico after failing in Qatar, they remain in diplomatic limbo. Nothing in the preparations for the climate talks suggests any other outcome. A meeting in China at the beginning of October is supposed to clear the way for Cancún. The hosts have already made it clear that it's going nowhere: there are, a top Chinese climate change official explains, still "huge differences between developed and developing countries". Everyone blames everyone else for the failure at Copenhagen. Everyone insists that everyone else should move. But nobody cares enough to make a fight of it. The disagreements are simultaneously entrenched and muted. The doctor's certificate has not been issued; perhaps, to save face, it never will be. But the harsh reality we have to grasp is that the process is dead. In 2012 the only global deal for limiting greenhouse gas emissions – the Kyoto protocol – expires. There is no realistic prospect that it will be replaced before it elapses: the existing treaty took five years to negotiate and a further eight years to come into force. In terms of real hopes for global action on climate change, we are now far behind where we were in 1997, or even 1992. It's not just that we have lost 18 precious years. Throughout the age of good intentions and grand announcements we spiralled backwards. Nor do regional and national commitments offer more hope. An analysis published a few days ago by the campaigning group Sandbag estimates the amount of carbon that will have been saved by the end of the second phase of the EU's emissions trading system, in 2012; after the hopeless failure of the scheme's first phase we were promised that the real carbon cuts would start to bite between 2008 and 2012. So how much carbon will it save by then? Less than one third of 1%. Worse still, the reduction in industrial output caused by the recession has allowed big polluters to build up a bank of carbon permits which they can carry into the next phase of the trading scheme. If nothing is done to annul them or to crank down the proposed carbon cap (which, given the strength of industrial lobbies and the weakness of government resolve, is unlikely) these spare permits will vitiate phase three as well. Unlike the Kyoto protocol, the EU's emissions trading system will remain alive. It will also remain completely useless. Plenty of nations – like Britain – have produced what appear to be robust national plans for cutting greenhouse gases. With one exception (the Maldives), their targets fall far short of the reductions needed to prevent more than two degrees of global warming. Even so, none of them are real. Missing from the proposed cuts are the net greenhouse gas emissions we have outsourced to other countries and now import in the form of manufactured goods. Were these included in the UK's accounts, alongside the aviation, shipping and tourism gases excluded from official figures, Britain's emissions would rise by 48%. Rather than cutting our contribution to global warming by 19% since 1990, as the government boasts, we have increased it by about 29%. It's the same story in most developed nations. Our apparent success results entirely from failures elsewhere. Hanging over everything is the growing recognition that the United States isn't going to play. Not this year, perhaps not in any year. If Congress couldn't pass a climate bill so feeble that it consisted of little but loopholes while Barack Obama was president and the Democrats had a majority in both houses, where does hope lie for action in other circumstances? Last Tuesday the Guardian reported that of 48 Republican contenders for the Senate elections in November only one accepted that man-made climate change is taking place. Who was he? Mike Castle of Delaware. The following day he was defeated by the Tea Party candidate Christine O'Donnell, producing a full house of science deniers. The enlightenment? Fun while it lasted. What all this means is that there is not a single effective instrument for containing man-made global warming anywhere on earth. The response to climate change, which was described by Lord Stern as "a result of the greatest market failure the world has seen", is the greatest political failure the world has ever seen. Nature won't wait for us. The US government's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reports that the first eight months of 2010 were as hot as the first eight months of 1998 – the warmest ever recorded. But there's a crucial difference. In 1998 there was a record El Niño – the warm phase of the natural Pacific temperature oscillation. The 2010 El Niño was smaller (an anomaly peaking at roughly 1.8C, rather than 2.5C), and brief by comparison to those of recent years. Since May the oscillation has been in its cool phase (La Niña): even so, June, July and August this year were the second warmest on record. The stronger the warnings, the less capable of action we become. Where does this leave us? How should we respond to the reality we have tried not to see: that in 18 years of promise and bluster nothing has happened? Environmentalists tend to blame themselves for these failures. Perhaps we should have made people feel better about their lives. Or worse. Perhaps we should have done more to foster hope. Or despair. Perhaps we were too fixated on grand visions. Or techno-fixes. Perhaps we got too close to business. Or not close enough. The truth is that there is not and never was a strategy certain of success, as the powers ranged against us have always been stronger than we are. Greens are a puny force by comparison to industrial lobby groups, the cowardice of governments and the natural human tendency to deny what we don't want to see. To compensate for our weakness, we indulged a fantasy of benign paternalistic power – acting, though the political mechanisms were inscrutable, in the wider interests of humankind. We allowed ourselves to believe that, with a little prompting and protest, somewhere, in a distant institutional sphere, compromised but decent people would take care of us. They won't. They weren't ever going to do so. So what do we do now? I don't know. These failures have exposed not only familiar political problems, but deep-rooted human weakness. All I know is that we must stop dreaming about an institutional response that will never materialise and start facing a political reality we've sought to avoid. The conversation starts here. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 19:09:44 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:09:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] INVITE: Discussion & release of myth-busting "Who Killed Karkare?" Message-ID: Discussion and release of English, Hindi, Urdu and Gujarati editions of the myth-busting book Who Killed Karkare? TERRORISM IN INDIA Venue: Dy. Speaker’s Hall, Constitution Club, New Delhi Date: Wednesday, 22 September 2010 Time: 3pm to 6 pm SPEAKERS include: SM Mushrif, ex-IG Police Maharashtra (author of Who Killed Karkare?) Syed Shahabuddin (ex-MP, President, Muslim Majlis-e Mushawarat) Aziz Burney (editor, Rashtriya Sahara) Suresh Khairnar (noted social and human rights activist) Subhash Gatade (writer and human rights activist) Manisha Sethi (Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association) Feroze H. Mithiborwala (Convenor, Awami Bharat, Mumbai) Ghulam Mohamed (editor, Vaigrai Veligham, Chennai) Dr Zafarul-Islam Khan (editor, The Milli Gazette) RSVP The Milli Gazette – edit at milligazette.com (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825 About the Programme Various aspects of terrorism in India, in general, and the so-called “Islamic terrorism,” in particular, will be discussed during a symposium on Wednesday, 22 September at the Deputy Speaker’s Hall in the Constitution Club here at 3 pm. Writers, journalists and human rights activists, who have been writing and speaking about terrorism in the country, will participate in the symposium. The main speaker will be Maharashtra’s former inspector general of police S.M. Mushrif whose book Who Killed Karkare? is now a major work on the subject and has been translated into all major languages of India. Four editions of this book in English, Hindi, Urdu and Gujarati will be released during the symposium. The book has been translated into Malayalam and Tamil also. Other speakers at the symposium include Syed Shahabuddin (ex-MP, President, Muslim Majlis-e Mushawarat), Aziz Burney (editor, Rashtriya Sahara), Suresh Khairnar (noted social and human rights activist), Subhash Gatade (writer and human rights activist), Manisha Sethi (Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association), Feroze H. Mithiborwala (Convenor, Awami Bharat, Mumbai), Ghulam Mohamed (editor, Vaigrai Veligham, Chennai) and Dr Zafarul-Islam Khan (editor, The Milli Gazette). For more information, contact The Milli Gazette at edit at milligazette.com , 011 26947483, 26952825. The Milli Gazette D-84 Abul Fazl Enclave-I, Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025 India Tel.: (+91-11) 2694 7483, 2695 2825, 2694 2883 ============================================ ہندوستان میں دہشت گردی دہشت گردی کی حقیقت اور عوامل کے بارے میں مباحثہ اور "کرکرے کے قاتل کون" کے انگریزی ، اردو، ہندی ور گجراتی ایڈیشنوں کا اجراء مقام: ڈپٹی اسپیکر ہال، کانسٹی ٹیوشن کلب دہلی - تاریخ: بدھ، ۲۲ ستمبر ۲۰۱۰ - وقت: ۳۔۶ بعد ظہر مباحثہ میں شریک ایس۔ایم۔مشرف ، سابق آئی جی پولیس مہاراشٹر ،مصنف "کرکرے کے قاتل کون" ، سید شہاب الدین، سابق ایم۔پی، صدر مسلم مجلس مشاورت ، عزیزبرنی، ایڈیٹر راشٹریاسہارا ، سریش کھیرنار (حقوق انسانی کے ممتاز کارکن) ، سبھاش گٹاڈے (صحافی اور حقوق انسانی کے کارکن) ، منیشا سیٹھی (جامعہ ملیہ ٹیچرز سولیڈریٹی اسوسی ایشن) ، فیروز میتھی بوروالا (کنوینر عوامی بھارت، بمبئ) ، غلام محمد (ایڈیٹر، ویگرای ویلیگھم ، چنئ) ڈاکٹر ظفرالاسلام خان (ایڈیٹر، ملی گزٹ) آپ سے شرکت اور مباحثہ کو کور کرنے کی درخواست ہے الداعی : ملی گزٹ، نئی دلی edit at milligazette.com (011) 26947483, 26952825, 26942883 دہشت گردی پر مباحثہ نئی دہلی (۲۱ ستمبر ۲۰۱۰): انگریزی جریدہ ملی گزٹ ہندوستان میں دہشت گردی کے مختلف پہلوؤں کا جائزہ لینے کے لئے کل ۳۔۶ بجے بروز بدھ ۲۲ ستمبر کو ایک سنجیدہ مباحثہ کا انعقاد عمل میں لایا جا رہاہے ۔ مباحثہ میں ملک میں پھیلی ہوئی دہشت گردی کے مختلف پہلوؤں کا جائزہ لیا جائے گا اور بالخصوص مسلمانوں پر دہشت گردی کے عنوان سے لگائےگئے الزامات پر نظر ڈالے گا۔ کانسٹی ٹیوشن کلب کے ڈپٹی اسپیکر ہال میں منعقد ہونے والے اس مباحثہ میں ملک کی اہم شخصیات حصہ لیں گی جو وقتاً فوقتاً دہشت گردی کے مسئلے پر لکھتی اور بولتی رہتی ہیں۔ مباحثہ میں حصہ لینے والوں میں مہاراشٹر پولیس کے سابق انسپکٹر جنرل ایس ایم مشرف سرفہرست ہیں جن کی کتاب "ہو کلڈ کرکرے؟" (کرکرے کے قاتل کون؟) عالمی شہرت حاصل کر چکی ہے اور ہندوستان کی تمام بڑی زبانوں میں دستیاب ہے۔ کتاب کے انگریزی، ہندی، اردو اور گجراتی ایڈیشنوں کا اجراء بھی مباحثہ کے دوران عمل میں آئےگا۔ یہ کتاب تمل اور ملیالم میں بھی شائع ہوچکی ہے۔ مباحثہ میں شریک ہونے ہونے والی دوسری شخصیات میں سابق ایم۔پی اور صدر مسلم مجلس مشاورت سید شہاب الدین، ، ایڈیٹر راشٹریاسہارا عزیزبرنی ، حقوق انسانی کے ممتاز کارکن سریش کھیرنار ، صحافی اور حقوق انسانی کے کارکن سبھاش گٹاڈے ، جامعہ ملیہ ٹیچرز سولیڈریٹی ایسوسی ایشن کی کنوینر منیشا سیٹھی ، عوامی بھارت بمبئ کے صدر فیروز میتھی بوروالا ، چنئ سے نکلنے والے تمل جریدہ ویگرای ویلیگھم کے ایڈیٹر غلام محمد اور ملی گزٹ کے ایڈیٹر ڈاکٹر ظفرالاسلام خان شامل ہیں۔مزید معلومات کے لئے ملی گزٹ (011-26947483) سے رابطہ کریں۔ From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Tue Sep 21 20:33:32 2010 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:03:32 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: Dear Inder, I am glad that you unlike many others on this forum who continue to wear wool over their eyes & refuse to acknowledge that the Kashmiri secessionist movement is indeed pan Islamism driven & that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were indeed subjected to a systematic ethnic cleansing in the valley, have at least dared to respond to the ‘post’ even if not in outright agreement. It is appreciable that you at least admit that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits ‘had to leave’ because there was a ‘genuine threat’ to their ‘life’ & ‘dignity’ in the wake of the killing of ‘many innocent’ Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. Just to add to that, it wasn’t mere ‘killings’ but the brutality with which the killings were executed as per a systematically worked out diabolic plan to unleash ethnic cleansing in Kashmir that forced the hapless community to abandon their homes & hearths. This ‘Jagmohan’ factor used by the separatists & their propagandists/sympathisers alike to hide their shame only belittles your concern which I would want to believe is genuine. First thing first- I think it is utterly outrageous to even insinuate that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are ‘fond’ of speaking about their exodus whenever there is an opportunity. You would agree that as the first victims of jihadi terror since its advent on Indian soil, Kashmiri Pandits can not be deprived of their basic right to ‘speak’ about their brutal ‘exodus’ however uncomforting it may sound to the self acclaimed secular liberals. Dear, why should you mind even that? After all, you did not mind giving that self-glorified performance to boost the moral of the Kashmiri Muslim ‘stone pelters’ & their sympathisers who had the audacity to rant ‘azadi’/’ ‘nizame Mustafa’ slogans in Kashmir at Jantar Mantra recently. It is unfair on your part to be constantly critical of Kashmiri Pandits rendered refugees in their own country. As for your comments on the other members on this forum, I am sure they would respond to you appropriately. But personally, I would prefer to avoid any discussion on the statements, even if provocative in nature, by the members of the minorities who chose to stay back for what ever reasons & I would request not to rake up the issue lest you jeopardise their security. Please do not forget that there is a standing fatwa from the patriarch of ‘azadi- bara- e- Islam’ on Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that they can only return if they are ready to join ‘their’ freedom ‘struggle’. The honourable parliamentarians’ visit to his home might suggest the helplessness of Indian democracy but I will be more concerned about what these parliamentarians speak about the visit on their return. I do concede that the sagging status of the Moolvi moonlighting as a separatist leader as well as the former terror commander who unabashedly continues to take credit for having founded the ‘gun culture’ in the valley will get a boost & so the war for the post of Emir of Kashmir will only intensify & the agony of Kashmiris only gets prolonged. I can only say that but for the blunders committed by the successive Govts. Kashmir would not have been an issue at all. It is the continued appeasement & the policy to promote dynasties that has prevented integration of Kashmir with the main stream India. The role played by the so called civil society is even worse –its continued pampering of the secessionists has only facilitated the growth of rabid pan -Islamic mindset in the valley. Today, ordinary Kashmiri Muslims are being held hostage by none other than their own who are out there in the streets creating mayhem at the behest of proponents of Azadi- bara- e- Islam. Yes, you are right, Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are facing crisis. It is not so simple to be living with the ignominy of being refugees in your own country. You may prefer to ignore it but Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are perusing a political agenda to return to the valley of their ancestors where their safety & dignity are guaranteed under one Indian secular constitution only. ‘Two flags’ & ‘two constitutions’ have failed to stop persecution of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that began with the arrival of militant Islam in the medieval times in Kashmir. You may have your own reasons to be infatuated with the Kashmiri pan-Islamists who want to resurrect medievalism in Kashmir. Just because you think you can’t fight ‘them’ does not imply that you should be joining them. I would like to make it clear that my love for India & the tri- colour is unconditional. I am proud of my Hindu identity & it in no way prevents me from regarding all other religious communities as equal stakeholders in this country. I fail to understand your confidence in your belief that Kashmiri language, heritage, music, poetry are well preserved in the hands of those who consider heritage (other than Islamic), music & even poetry against the religion that is sought to be ‘the law’ in Kashmir. I am sure you are aware of the historical distortions that are being invented by the vested interests in Kashmir today. I do not agree with your contention that the present conflict is between the Govt. of India & the ‘people of Kashmir’. No, please do not ‘generalise’. Most Kashmiris would find it offensive to be associated with obscurantisms. You would be wasting your time & energy in propagating the separatist propaganda in seeking the Kashmiri Pandits’ return to connect with the ‘Kashmiri Muslims’. Please correct your perceptions. I have genuine grievances against Kashmiri Muslims in general for they failed to protect a miniscule minority in their neighbourhoods, but there is no hatred as such. I have said it earlier if at all the so called Kashmiriyat exists today it is in the hearts of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits far awy from Kashmir in refugee camps & outside. And I also believe, that status quo will not be everlasting in Kashmir. The process of death & destruction initiated by the ‘sons of the soil’ themselves in the name of religion driven separatism will eventually singe the valley (the sparks are beginning to be seen even now) & that is when the hitherto silent because of fear & religious blackmail, Kashmiri Muslim masses will be out in the streets to chase the separatists to POK where they actually deserve to be, in the lap of their Pakistani masters. Don’t forget, Kashmiris have done it earlier, when they spurned the two nation theory author-Mr. Jinnah’s moves to seduce them. Rgds LA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:08:27 +0530 > From: indersalim at gmail.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots > > Dear Lalit > I have written it earlier also > but i repeat, not for you also but many KP brothers who are fond of > speaking about exodus as and when there is any opportunity. > > well, recently i met a KP friend who was quite upset with Aditya Raj > Kaul who remained mum during a TV discussion ( some Times channel ) on > exodus of KPs from valley in 90. It was some Sikh representative, > Mr.Jagat Singh ( perhaps ) who said that KPs left the valley on their > own. which was music to Bilal Lone, the other conversant in the room. > May be Mr. Aditya Raj Koul ji can clarify it in detail. The discussion > was about the recent threat to Sikh community by some elements who > wanted them leave the valley. I see little TV myself...so dont know > the exact thing... > > On the other hand, i maintain the fact that KPs had to leave the > valley in 1990 because there was a genuine threat to life and dignity, > given the fact that many innocent KPs were killed. Jagmohan indeed > provided curfew relaxation to those who wanted to leave, but he is not > the core player of KP exodus. However, the contradiction remain that > GOI was knowing it all from word go, and remained silent spectators to > worsening situation... it is still mystery to me... ( in other words i > see GOI as a direct cause of KP exodus, not only historically but in > 1990 as well ) > > It is the same Aditya who said Geelani hoon hia hia, atJantar Mantar > recently, ( Down with Geelaii dog ) which i found utterly > unparliamentary since i have never heard SAS Geelani saying such > things openly to KPs ( this i am saying after i have deep problems > with his only religious political card for Kashmir conflict ) It is > the same SAS Geelani who is refusing indian Home Minister to meet. I > wrote earlier also that Chidambaram would go to Kashmir and knock his > door for a meeting for peace...Where does RIK people stand, > politically... > > But Geelani sahib is not the only one who represents Kashmir conflict > at the core. there are others, and there are people in general who > represent themselves now... see how SAS Geelani's call for hartal was > rejected recently..... it is not easy for GOI to cut a deal with > Huriyat even... so where do KPs hard core anti KM politics stand.... > > Well, KPs right now facing cultural identity crises at the moment... > They are rapidly realizing that there will no Kashmiiri seapking boy > or girl after one or two decades down the line. If there will be > anybody able to recite Lad Ded or Krishan joo razdan, it will be KM > from valley... > > so what use to unfurl Tricolour in front of people protesting about > the recent killings at Jantar Mantar. > The best thing KPs can do is to reconnect themselves with KM's in the > valley and restore cultural links... the situation is quite different > from 1990, things can change if KP love their language, heritage, > music, poetry... sorry not this Nationalism.. which is of no use in > deeper sense.... believe me... > > that is the only real thing i feel, if KP begin with anything positive..... > that way they can dream to return back, even... > > seemingly the conflict is between Govt of India and the people of > kashmir, so KP ought to give time to the most vital thing... the real > kashmir is also about its ancient echos, not Hindu religous identity > alone... that too will be political.. but we need guts > > > I know you will point out the fact that KPs too are kashmirs. > but i want to know how, not only in the present, but after2 or three decades... > > with love > is > > > > > On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Lalit Ambardar > wrote: > > > > My apologies.There is a minor correction in the subject line ,hence this repeated mail. > > > > Rgds all > > > > LA > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to admit 'pan Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going Kashmiri scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on Kashmir takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by 'positions'.Here is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times > > > > New Delhi, September 18, 2010 > > Our secularism will withstand any opposition > > I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described again and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. > > By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri elections were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, the army subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. > > Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is determined to hang on by force to Kashmir. > > Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has begun to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes an India that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know we do not hold. > > In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not guided by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the overwhelming emotion when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of bewilderment. The vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and the demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? And what is it that they actually want? > > There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military presence in a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where curfew is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by the stories of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. > > But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till 1989, Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went in only after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, after kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis thronged to Kashmir from across the border. > > Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, the State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule of law. > > Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. Indian soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. But each time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to increase. There is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be greeted by a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. > > Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state violence in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say that they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army presence is unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. > > From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average Kashmiri has the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian State spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is vastly greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average Bihari. > > Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has not been true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party (PDP)-government was legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference regime. Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that Indians who reside in other parts of the country do not have. > > We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of India — Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have managed to fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist sentiment. But what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this generation of Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession? > > More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris want. Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled Pakistan? Who wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of national collapse? > > Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi minorities well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a genocide. The Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a shining advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. > > Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that America or any great power would support the creation of such a state. > > So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer but we suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular India, religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. We find the notion of a state founded only on religious identity old-fashioned and bizarre. > > But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from the Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim (after the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many takers. This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri separatists apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel no kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. > > But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are now so fed up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our fears for the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this would not be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession would mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. > > Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire to protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the world that India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack Kashmiri Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that the Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism survived that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may misrepresent our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph again. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 21:23:58 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:23:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks dear Lalit i repeat: about KP migration Why Govt of India failed to notice that KP are under attack. from reliable sources i am saying it that the idea of KP to be pushed out of valley was discussed by pro-pak militants in early 88-89, and was duly conveyed to intelligence in Delhi. They never acted, which makes them a party to their agenda of KP migration. May be Govt of India thought that migration of KP is in the interest of India. i dont whom, or what... you can not convince me at this point....why it was allowed to happen.. Jagmohan who is a known RSS man in Delhi was appointed to ensure that... i dont know why he was there in the first place.... imposing ban on killing goats on ashtamis i Kashmir was something which makes me laugh, but he is not stupid, may be he was briefed to issue an order like that... about Govt role KP migration also happened because there was open rigging by NC-Congress in pre 90 elections? it was fraud committed by Rajiv Gandhi and Farooq Abdullah. I dont know in which sense they are friends of India. and why they denied a chance to MUF to rule the state is beyond my comprehension., if you are ready to forgive them, you can do..but there are many who are not read for that gift to them... since they are robbers, with clean hands.. about my action at Jantar Mantar: you will not believe, how ugly it was to see the KP brothers saying Geelani Hoon hai hai. etc.......in opposition to the protest organized by Kalpana Tickoo. My little action on the other hand was not to boost the stone pelting, but actually transformed the stone into paper, which was creative, which was about pushing non-violent forms of protest in the valley, unlike saying Geelini Hoon, which is nothing but provoking the stone pelters to pick up the Gun. May be you see it differently, i have very little to say about RSS minded politics of RIK. Do you think that recent killings in Kashmir were avoidable? do you blame UA for his role in shopian and then these killings..i see he is most hated man in the valley right now.... and he must have resigned... but Rahul Baba has given him the green signal.... so we have a situation similar to 1989... History repeats, first as tragedy then as farce..., but remember farce is more tragic than ....- about exodus KP have given the impression that they are quite happy outside Kashmir, and so what is the fuss.... you dont want any cultural restoration in valley, and you dismiss the entire valley as pro-pakistani pro geelani and anti -KP minded, then it is hopeless to think about return... how can you you live in a society which is against your very presence, so what is this noise of dream to return. ( idea of Panun Kashmir suits Indian agenda is not in any way serving the basic interest of KPs ) the best thing for KP was to discover right links in the valley, there are thousands who love us there, who love temples, who love our festivals, but KPs are only interested in politics which is unfortunately not functional. Govt of India does not need you, Home minister needs the smile of Geelani sahib, not yours, Your bond with nation is well recognized...so abut my waste of time: yes i dont have any material gain from writing all this, i want some saner sound to see the reason... sentimentality is not serving any good to KP community. but it is your choice.... Govt of India has certainly different priorities, you can criticize them, but will they listen to you... to dismiss the entire valley against music, poetry, art, theatre is quite not right.... i go there, and the fact is there is a deeper urge to start all over again...and it is here KP can join the idea...but..... well, i think you are quite involved with the political thinking of Kashmir but i feel we should give space to some music ( creativity ) to speak also what do you think love is .. On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Dear Inder, > > > >  I am glad that you unlike many others on this forum who continue to wear > wool over their eyes & refuse to acknowledge that the Kashmiri secessionist > movement is indeed pan Islamism driven & that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were > indeed subjected to a systematic ethnic cleansing in the valley, have at > least dared to respond to the ‘post’ even if not in outright agreement. > > > > It is appreciable that you at least admit that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits ‘had > to leave’ because there was a ‘genuine threat’ to their ‘life’ & ‘dignity’ > in the wake of the killing of ‘many innocent’ Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. Just > to add to that, it wasn’t mere ‘killings’ but the brutality with which the > killings were executed as per a systematically worked out diabolic plan to > unleash ethnic cleansing in Kashmir that forced the hapless community to > abandon their homes & hearths. This ‘Jagmohan’ factor used by the > separatists & their propagandists/sympathisers alike to hide their shame > only belittles your concern which I would want to believe is genuine. > > > > First thing first- I think it is utterly outrageous to even insinuate that > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are ‘fond’ of speaking about their exodus whenever > there is an opportunity. You would agree that as the first victims of jihadi > terror since its advent on Indian soil, Kashmiri Pandits can not be deprived > of their basic right  to ‘speak’ about their brutal  ‘exodus’ however > uncomforting it may sound to the self acclaimed secular liberals. > >  Dear, why should you mind even that? After all, you did not mind giving > that self-glorified performance to boost the moral of the Kashmiri Muslim > ‘stone pelters’ & their sympathisers who had the audacity to rant ‘azadi’/’ > ‘nizame Mustafa’ slogans in Kashmir at Jantar Mantra recently. It is unfair > on your part to be constantly critical of Kashmiri Pandits rendered refugees > in their own country. > > > > As for your comments on the other members on this forum, I am sure they > would respond to you appropriately. But personally, I would prefer to avoid > any discussion on the statements, even if  provocative in nature, by the > members of the minorities who chose to stay back for what ever reasons & I > would request not to rake up the issue lest you jeopardise their security. > > > > Please do not forget that there is a standing fatwa from the patriarch of > ‘azadi- bara- e- Islam’ on Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that they can only return > if they are ready to join ‘their’ freedom ‘struggle’. The honourable > parliamentarians’ visit to his home might suggest the helplessness of Indian > democracy but I will be more concerned about what these parliamentarians > speak about the visit on their return. I do concede that the sagging status > of the Moolvi moonlighting as a separatist leader as well as the former > terror commander who unabashedly continues to take credit for having founded > the ‘gun culture’ in the valley will get a boost & so the war for the post > of Emir of Kashmir will only intensify & the agony of Kashmiris only gets > prolonged. > > > > I can only say that but for the blunders committed by the successive Govts. > Kashmir would not have been an issue at all. It is the continued appeasement > & the policy to promote dynasties that has prevented integration of Kashmir > with the main stream India. The role played by the so called civil society > is even worse –its continued pampering of the secessionists has only > > facilitated the growth of rabid pan -Islamic mindset in the valley. Today, > ordinary Kashmiri Muslims are being held hostage by none other than their > own who are out there in the streets creating mayhem at the behest of > proponents of Azadi- bara- e- Islam. > > > > Yes, you are right, Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are facing crisis. It is not so > simple to be living with the ignominy of being refugees in your own country. > You may prefer to ignore it but Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are perusing a > political agenda to return to the valley of their ancestors where their > safety & dignity are guaranteed under one Indian secular constitution only. > ‘Two flags’ & ‘two constitutions’ have failed to stop persecution of > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that began with the arrival of militant Islam in the > medieval times in Kashmir. > > > > You may have your own reasons to be infatuated with the Kashmiri > pan-Islamists who want to resurrect medievalism in Kashmir. Just because you > think you can’t fight ‘them’ does not imply that you should be joining them. > I would like to make it clear that my love for India & the > > tri- colour is unconditional. I am proud of my Hindu identity & it in no way > prevents me from regarding all other religious communities as equal > stakeholders in this country. > > > >  I fail to understand your confidence in your belief that Kashmiri language, > heritage, music, poetry are well preserved in the hands of those who > consider heritage (other than Islamic), music &  even poetry against the > religion that is sought to be ‘the law’ in Kashmir. I am sure you are aware > of the historical distortions that are being invented by the vested > interests in Kashmir today. > > > > I do not agree with your contention that the present conflict is between the > Govt. of India & the ‘people of Kashmir’. No, please do not ‘generalise’. > Most Kashmiris would find it offensive to be associated with obscurantisms. > You would be wasting your time & energy in propagating the separatist > propaganda in seeking the Kashmiri Pandits’ return to connect with the > ‘Kashmiri Muslims’. Please correct your perceptions. I have genuine > grievances against Kashmiri Muslims in general for they failed to protect a > miniscule minority in their neighbourhoods, but there is no hatred as such. > I have said it earlier if at all the so called Kashmiriyat exists today it > is in the hearts of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits far awy from Kashmir in refugee > camps & outside. And I also believe, that status quo will not be everlasting > in Kashmir. The process of death & destruction initiated by the ‘sons of the > soil’ themselves in the name of religion driven separatism will eventually > singe the valley (the sparks are beginning to be seen even now) & that is > when the hitherto silent because of  fear & religious blackmail, Kashmiri > Muslim masses will be out in the streets to chase the separatists to POK > where they actually deserve to be, in the lap of their Pakistani masters. > Don’t forget, Kashmiris have done it earlier, when they spurned the two > nation theory author-Mr. Jinnah’s moves to seduce them. > > Rgds > > LA > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:08:27 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic >> roots >> >> Dear Lalit >> I have written it earlier also >> but i repeat, not for you also but many KP brothers who are fond of >> speaking about exodus as and when there is any opportunity. >> >> well, recently i met a KP friend who was quite upset with Aditya Raj >> Kaul who remained mum during a TV discussion ( some Times channel ) on >> exodus of KPs from valley in 90. It was some Sikh representative, >> Mr.Jagat Singh ( perhaps ) who said that KPs left the valley on their >> own. which was music to Bilal Lone, the other conversant in the room. >> May be Mr. Aditya Raj Koul ji can clarify it in detail. The discussion >> was about the recent threat to Sikh community by some elements who >> wanted them leave the valley. I see little TV myself...so dont know >> the exact thing... >> >> On the other hand, i maintain the fact that KPs had to leave the >> valley in 1990 because there was a genuine threat to life and dignity, >> given the fact that many innocent KPs were killed. Jagmohan indeed >> provided curfew relaxation to those who wanted to leave, but he is not >> the core player of KP exodus. However, the contradiction remain that >> GOI was knowing it all from word go, and remained silent spectators to >> worsening situation... it is still mystery to me... ( in other words i >> see GOI as a direct cause of KP exodus, not only historically but in >> 1990 as well ) >> >> It is the same Aditya who said Geelani hoon hia hia, atJantar Mantar >> recently, ( Down with Geelaii dog ) which i found utterly >> unparliamentary since i have never heard SAS Geelani saying such >> things openly to KPs ( this i am saying after i have deep problems >> with his only religious political card for Kashmir conflict ) It is >> the same SAS Geelani who is refusing indian Home Minister to meet. I >> wrote earlier also that Chidambaram would go to Kashmir and knock his >> door for a meeting for peace...Where does RIK people stand, >> politically... >> >> But Geelani sahib is not the only one who represents Kashmir conflict >> at the core. there are others, and there are people in general who >> represent themselves now... see how SAS Geelani's call for hartal was >> rejected recently..... it is not easy for GOI to cut a deal with >> Huriyat even... so where do KPs hard core anti KM politics stand.... >> >> Well, KPs right now facing cultural identity crises at the moment... >> They are rapidly realizing that there will no Kashmiiri seapking boy >> or girl after one or two decades down the line. If there will be >> anybody able to recite Lad Ded or Krishan joo razdan, it will be KM >> from valley... >> >> so what use to unfurl Tricolour in front of people protesting about >> the recent killings at Jantar Mantar. >> The best thing KPs can do is to reconnect themselves with KM's in the >> valley and restore cultural links... the situation is quite different >> from 1990, things can change if KP love their language, heritage, >> music, poetry... sorry not this Nationalism.. which is of no use in >> deeper sense.... believe me... >> >> that is the only real thing i feel, if KP begin with anything >> positive..... >> that way they can dream to return back, even... >> >> seemingly the conflict is between Govt of India and the people of >> kashmir, so KP ought to give time to the most vital thing... the real >> kashmir is also about its ancient echos, not Hindu religous identity >> alone... that too will be political.. but we need guts >> >> >> I know you will point out the fact that KPs too are kashmirs. >> but i want to know how, not only in the present, but after2 or three >> decades... >> >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Lalit Ambardar >> wrote: >> > >> > My apologies.There is a minor correction in the subject line ,hence this >> > repeated mail. >> > >> > Rgds all >> > >> > LA >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of >> > Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to admit  'pan >> > Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going Kashmiri >> > scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on Kashmir >> > takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by 'positions'.Here >> > is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >  Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times >> > >> > New Delhi, September 18, 2010 >> >                                               Our secularism will >> > withstand any opposition >> > I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting >> > frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described again >> > and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. >> > By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the >> > accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri elections >> > were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, the army >> > subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. >> > Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about >> > Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is determined to >> > hang on by force to Kashmir. >> > Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has begun >> > to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes an India >> > that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know we do not >> > hold. >> > In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not guided >> > by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the overwhelming emotion >> > when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of bewilderment. The >> > vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and the >> > demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? And >> > what is it that they actually want? >> > There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We >> > recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military presence in >> > a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where curfew >> > is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by the stories >> > of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. >> > But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a >> > response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till 1989, >> > Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went in only >> > after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, after >> > kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis thronged to >> > Kashmir from across the border. >> > Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, the >> > State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is >> > obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule of law. >> > Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. Indian >> > soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. But each >> > time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the Armed Forces >> > Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to increase. There >> > is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be greeted by >> > a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. >> > Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state violence >> > in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say that >> > they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army presence is >> > unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. >> > From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is >> > bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average Kashmiri has >> > the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian State >> > spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is vastly >> > greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average Bihari. >> > Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. >> > Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has not been >> > true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party (PDP)-government was >> > legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference regime. >> > Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that Indians who >> > reside in other parts of the country do not have. >> > We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, >> > there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. >> > Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of India — >> > Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have managed to >> > fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist sentiment. But >> > what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this generation of >> > Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession? >> > More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris want. >> > Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled Pakistan? Who >> > wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of national >> > collapse? >> > Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi minorities >> > well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a genocide. The >> > Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a shining >> > advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. >> > Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. >> > But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no >> > industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India >> > or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to >> > strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the >> > world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that America or >> > any great power would support the creation of such a state. >> > So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and >> > pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer but we >> > suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular India, >> > religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. We find >> > the notion of a state founded only on religious identity old-fashioned and >> > bizarre. >> > But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything >> > else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from the >> > Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim (after the >> > ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many takers. >> > This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri separatists >> > apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel no >> > kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. >> > But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it >> > poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are now so fed >> > up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our fears for >> > the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this would not >> > be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession would >> > mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. >> > Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire to >> > protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the world that >> > India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack Kashmiri >> > Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that the >> > Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism survived >> > that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may misrepresent >> > our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph again. >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Wed Sep 22 12:33:59 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 00:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Vikalp@Prithvi presents 3 Films on Mining in India | 27 Sep, Juhu, Bombay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <886723.45139.qm@web54408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> E-group members can view the poster on http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=120143048041130 Vikalp at Prithvi Presents UNDERMINING THE EARTH 3 Films on Mining in India The Real Face of Vedanta by Surya Shankar Dash | 33 min The Real Face of Vedantadraws attention to the plight of the communities from more than twenty villages suffering from the pollution caused by the one million tonne per annum aluminium refinery plant of Vedanta in Lanjigarh, Orissa. The film has shocking images of river pollution by the Vedanta refinery while it claims to be zero discharge factory. The impact of the pollution is explicit on the faces of little children and on the bodies of men and women afflicted by undiagnosed skin blisters. The film was used as evidence on how a Public Hearing by the State Pollution Control Board was disrupted by Vedanta’s supporters when people opposed the expansion of the refinery and thus contradicted the official statement which claims people support for the project. Thisdocumentary exposes many lies of Vedanta like its claims of providing cholera relief to the Dongria Kondh, of doing peripheral development, etc. Iron is Hotby Biju Toppo and Meghnath | 35 min Loha Garam Hai (Iron is Hot) is the story of people surviving within the sponge iron industry in India. This material is made out of iron ore used for making steel. Though India began producing sponge iron only 20 years ago, today the country is the largest sponge iron manufacturer in the world. India had only three sponge iron factories in 1985. The number rose to 23 in 2001 and multiplied to become 206 in 2005. Today, reportedly, 225 factories are under construction and the number is anticipated to reach 450 very soon though the unofficial figures may be much higher. The sponge iron industry is spread over Orissa, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and West Bengaland in small numbers, is found in Goa, Maharashtra and Karnataka. The film is on this astonishing growth but the focus is on the little benefit it accrues to the local people. It won the IDPA Award for the Best Film on Environment recently. Before Darkby Ajay TG | 33 min Not long ago filmmaker Ajay TG along with pediatrician Dr. Binayak Sen were behind bars in notorious Chhattisgarh, accused of being Naxalites. Thanks to public pressure both were released. In Ajay’s case the police had no explanation whatsoever about why he had been jailed at all. After his release Ajay continued to make films. His latest is a film on how Jindal Corporation has illegally usurped the land of adivasis and villagers, for its coal operations in Chhattisgarh. Monday, 27 September, 7 PM Prithvi House, Opp Prithvi Theatre, Janki Kutir, Juhu Church Road, Mumbai Admission Free, On A First-Come-First-Seated Basis For any queries, email vikalp.prithvi at gmail.com Join the Vikalp at Prithvi group on Facebook! From bhagwati at sarai.net Wed Sep 22 16:47:55 2010 From: bhagwati at sarai.net (bhagwati at sarai.net) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 16:47:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Postponed>> City as Studio: EXB 10.05 Message-ID: <4C99E5E3.2090906@sarai.net> Dear all Due to unavoidable circumstances, we are postponing the 'City as Studio: EXB 10.05 'exhibition as well as the Open Day planned for Saturday, September 25, 2010 We will keep up informed about the new dates. Inconvenience is regretted. Warm regards Sarai Media Lab From adityarajbaul at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 17:42:50 2010 From: adityarajbaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Baul) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:42:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How the J&K papers reported the Amarnath land row, 2008 Message-ID: Reporting in times of communal strife --IV More than Kashmir Times published from Jammu, commentary in Greater Kashmir highlighted the alienation - economic, physical, and psychological - fostered by the blockade and the fact that it was directly antithetical to India’s claim to the Valley, says SUBARNO CHATTARJI. Posted Thursday, Sep 09 16:50:51, 2010 http://thehoot.org/web/home/story.php?storyid=4806&mod=1&pg=1§ionId=2&valid=true MEDIA COVERAGE OF THE AMARNATH CONTROVERSY--A CASE STUDY Research by Aaliya Ahmed, Sabeha Mufti and Zara Malik, Media Education Research Centre Kashimir University Project coordinator, Sevanti Ninan A Panos study On August 31, 2008 the three-month long Amaranth agitation sparked by the transfer of land to the Shri Amarnath Shrine Board ended with an agreement inked between the Government and the Shri Amaranth Sangharsh Samiti. Two years later questions remain about the role of the political class and the media in stoking the fires that erupted with successive government decisions on allotting land to the Shri Amarnath Shrine Board in June 2008. This is a preliminary inquiry into how the media reported the series of events and the commentary carried by newspapers during that period. ‘Economic Terrorism': the blockade of the Kashmir Valley Subarno Chattarji That government and bureaucratic actions often have multiple consequences was perhaps best proven by the afterlife of the Shri Amarnath Shrine Board (SASB) land acquisition. Protests in the Kashmir Valley against the acquisition and counter-protests in Jammu in favour were the more salient features of political and civic society responses. It was when the protestors in Jammu resorted to an economic blockade that the Valley was forced to come to terms with their own isolation as well as the need for greater self-reliance. Newspapers ' particularly in the Valley ' were exercised by this issue since it impinged on daily realities and revealed new vulnerabilities. Kashmir Times carried a news item citing PDP patron Mufti Mohammad Sayeed: ‘“Treading the footsteps of the vicious communal elements in Jammu, the reported enforcement of the anti-Kashmir economic blockade by BJP functionaries now even in some parts of Punjab has started pushing Kashmir towards absolute physical and economic isolation, perhaps for the first time since independence.”' (‘Economic blockade not civilized conduct: Mufti,' August 7, 2008) The Mufti's reaction expressed a type of disbelief and shock at the actuality of the blockade ' a point taken up by other newspapers as well. While many Kashmiris may have felt isolated from mainland India this was ‘proof' that ‘elements' aligned to mainland political parties were determined to reinforce that sense of separation. More than Kashmir Times (which is published from Jammu), commentary in Greater Kashmir highlighted the alienation ' economic, physical, and psychological ' fostered by the blockade and the fact that it was directly antithetical to India's claim to the Valley. Ihsan Malik pointed to the irony inherent in trying to economically squeeze the Valley: ‘The blockade from which we are suffering is different from the other instances of blockades, in that, it is being used by the state against a region which it always claims to be its integral part.' (‘Blockade Politics,' GK, August 18, 2008) Malik conflated the protestors in Jammu with the ‘state', implying that the state could, if it wished, lift the blockade. Malik hinted at collusion between the institutions of governance in Jammu, the protestors, and their political masters in India, pointing ultimately to the failure of the central government to alleviate the sufferings of a people it claimed as its own. Malik's larger point was the sense of Kashmiris living under sufferance and being ‘subjected to all sorts of physical and mental torture', of which the blockade was only the most recent instance. The economic blockade was a ‘leaf taken out of Israel's book. The blockade is a favourite strategy with the Israelis. They have, time and again, used it to stifle the poor Palestinians.' The comparison between Palestine and Kashmir is often made by jihadists mapping territories where Muslims are oppressed and need to be liberated. Here, however, it was offered in a secular setting and the fact that this was not an isolated sentiment is proven by another article by Z. G. Muhammad who wrote that ‘the way the agitation is being led it substantiates the much talked about the [sic] Mossad plan for strangulating Kashmir economically.' (‘Economic Blockade can rebound,' GK) At one level this may seem akin to paranoia and the airing of conspiracy theories. At another level these articulations are indicative of the sense of siege and isolation generated by the blockade and the reference to Palestine creates larger historical and specifically Muslim solidarities. >From these parallels it was another step towards perceiving the blockade as an act of war on a sovereign people, thereby further consolidating a sense of victimized nationhood. Subaktagin Gaznavi stated that ‘the ulterior motive [of the blockade was] to subjugate and starve Kashmiris and bring them to their knees.' (‘Blockade as a weapon,' RK, 8 August, 2008) Citing the Geneva Conventions on the laws of war and collective punishment, as well as former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, Gaznavi argued: ‘The imposition of economic sanction/blockade is nothing but seemingly an act of war against the Kashmiri nation. This instrument of economic warfare is against the conventions of war.' While it is possible to cavil at the overt articulation of war between sovereign nations ' since the Valley is not one ' in effect, it is unsurprising that the blockade was perceived as such, especially since it was a form of collective punishment and the state seemed to acquiesce in these acts by its refusal to actively lift the blockade. Gaznavi upped the rhetorical and political ante which was partly reflective of collective shock and anger. Several editorials stated the need to counter these acts of war by stressing Kashmiri self-reliance. In ‘Fighting economic blockade' Greater Kashmir emphasized the need for economic self-sufficiency. At the same time it also harped on the need to resist the dismemberment of Jammu & Kashmir. ‘The economic blockade needs to be converted into an opportunity of working for self-sufficiency. […] In this trying situation the role of the Kashmiri leaders will be watched for years to come. Their political acumen as well as sincerity is at test. […] It is high time for them to respect the people's wishes and aspirations by ironing out differences that are basically superficial rather than deep.' (July 31, 2008) While Gaznavi seemed to see the blockade as an irrevocable moment in the sundering of the Valley from Jammu and the rest of India, the Greater Kashmir editorial was more emollient in its unwillingness to push the differences thrown into relief by the blockade. Rising Kashmir, while shocked by the blockade, was convinced that it was part of a larger historical framework. It editorialized on the need for greater self-reliance particularly since it perceived the blockade as part of a pattern sustained ‘over the last six decades': ‘The acute hardships faced by people in valley by scarcity of essential commodities, life saving drugs and medicines, even kids' items, by the economic blockade does call for a new thinking based on self-reliance.' (‘Economic terrorism,' August 12, 2008) One solution posited as a question was the opening of the Srinagar-Muzzafarabad road: ‘Does it raise the issue of appointing an international forum that shall propose ways of reviving the Kashmir economy and put opening of Srinagar Muzzafarabad road on high priority?' An earlier piece had considered the same option, stating that this route ‘will not only help the region to prosper but will free the people of many land locked areas of Jammu from the chains of imposed slavery.' (Shuhab Hashmi, ‘Time to open alternate routes,' RK, 2 August, 2008) The ‘alternate routes' may have been more rhetorical than actual but their articulation was expressive of widespread anger, frustration, and desperation. While most commentaries and editorials focused on questions of identity, survival, and isolation there were more mundane but equally vital issues linked to these. The economic costs of the blockade was estimated at Rs. 100 crores and articles highlighted the extent to which organizations such as the Kashmir Fruit Growers and Dealers Association were keen to move their products through the Muzzafarabad route, because for them it was not just a question of supplies dwindling but of perishable products rotting and markets being cut off. Swaminathan Aiyar pointed to the fact of traditional market and trade routes whereby ‘“all our fruit went down the Jhelum valley into West Punjab (which is now in Pakistan).”' (‘Pushing Kashmir towards Pakistan,' Economic Times, 13 August 2008) Aiyar mentions the ‘Muzzafarabad Chalo' movement, backed by the Kashmir Fruit Growers Association, and its significance: ‘The Muzzafarabad Chalo movement was not just an economic plea for evacuating their produce, it was a demand for the restoration of the historical links between the Valley and what is now Pakistan. It was a demand by Kashmiris for the right to determine their own future, to send their produce where and when they wanted, and not be at the mercy of Indian (or Pakistani) political parties. The case for separatism has been strengthened greatly, even in the mind of moderates.' This was a case for economic emancipation and Aiyar stresses the links between economic and political freedoms, highlighting the frustrations brought about by geography (being landlocked), politics, and history. The arbitrary drawing of international boundaries (part of the sub-continental colonial heritage) coalesces with the arbitrary blockade and its resonances of a type of latter day colonialism. As if histories and consciousness of occupation were not difficult enough to handle, throughout the SASB controversy the Valley newspapers in particular were acutely aware of the communalisation of the protests in Jammu and expressed their sense of betrayal by repeatedly stressing the communal amity preserved during the Amarnath pilgrimage. It was as if all their hospitality had come to nought as the protestors in Jammu denied the pluralism of Jammu & Kashmir. Aiyar dwelt on the ways in which communal consciousness now seemed to be a bedrock one: ‘Optimists may keep talking about Kashmiriyat and local traditions that transcend religion, and may project differences between the Valley and Jammu as regional rather than religious. But the fact is that communalism has mixed inexorably with regionalism to produce a toxic and combustible potion.' ‘Kashmiriyat' as perceived by the votaries of a pluralistic region not only served to highlight the uniqueness of Kashmir but also to give it a coherent identity based on traditions and practices of religious tolerance. Aiyar's argument destroyed this framework implying that the communal was as much a part of this territory of India as others, indeed that the communalisation of the Jammu protests was evident in the economic blockade of a Muslim majority region. Finally, Aiyar stressed the counter-productive nature of the blockade in political terms ' a point stressed by earlier commentators. ‘The Jammu blockade is a blatant attempt to squeeze Kashmiris economically into submission. This approach is doomed to failure. You cannot starve a community into comradeship, and the very attempt to do so is a form of colonial brutality. The Jammu agitators may have legitimate grievances, but their chosen instrument of protest can only stoke secessionism. Ironically, the Hindu die-hards who most bitterly oppose secession are doing the most to make it a reality.' This was the irony pointed out by Ihsan Malik whereby the very people one wishes to embrace within the nation are alienated by its policies and votaries. Aiyar's piece is significant in that it is an ‘outsider's' perspective yet sympathetic and analytically dispassionate in its detailing of the consequences of the economic blockade. In a way it bolsters many of the arguments and resentments and insights available in the Kashmiri newspapers and focuses on the extent of the damage done by the ill-conceived blockade of the Valley. This brief survey of editorials and commentaries of the economic blockade not only highlights the unforeseen (perhaps unintended) consequences of the SASB land transfer, but also the myriad and intricate intertwining of issues in Jammu & Kashmir. Region and religion, the plural and communal, the pull of ‘azadi' and the push provided by an alienated government, economics and politics all coalesce to compose the seething maelstrom of Kashmir. From aliens at dataone.in Wed Sep 22 21:58:37 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 21:58:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008b01cb5a73$3623dd10$a26b9730$@in> Dear Inder, "Why Govt of India failed to notice that KP are under attack. From reliable sources i am saying it that the idea of KP to be pushed out of valley was discussed by pro-pak militants in early 88-89, and was duly conveyed to intelligence in Delhi. They never acted, which makes them a party to their agenda of KP migration." "However, the contradiction remain that GOI was knowing it all from word go, and remained silent spectators to worsening situation..." Main culprit for fueling Kashmir problem is congress and their vote bank politics and that's the mother of all problem. They were going to any level for minor appeasement and this is the main problem of India and it's various problems. So with your above statement, ouster of KP was planned by militants with the help of Pakistan only. So, freedom movement of Kashmir was planned by Pakistan and created Geelani like people for that and fueling the movement regularly and not actual movement of common Kashmiri people. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:24 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots Thanks dear Lalit i repeat: about KP migration Why Govt of India failed to notice that KP are under attack. from reliable sources i am saying it that the idea of KP to be pushed out of valley was discussed by pro-pak militants in early 88-89, and was duly conveyed to intelligence in Delhi. They never acted, which makes them a party to their agenda of KP migration. May be Govt of India thought that migration of KP is in the interest of India. i dont whom, or what... you can not convince me at this point....why it was allowed to happen.. Jagmohan who is a known RSS man in Delhi was appointed to ensure that... i dont know why he was there in the first place.... imposing ban on killing goats on ashtamis i Kashmir was something which makes me laugh, but he is not stupid, may be he was briefed to issue an order like that... about Govt role KP migration also happened because there was open rigging by NC-Congress in pre 90 elections? it was fraud committed by Rajiv Gandhi and Farooq Abdullah. I dont know in which sense they are friends of India. and why they denied a chance to MUF to rule the state is beyond my comprehension., if you are ready to forgive them, you can do..but there are many who are not read for that gift to them... since they are robbers, with clean hands.. about my action at Jantar Mantar: you will not believe, how ugly it was to see the KP brothers saying Geelani Hoon hai hai. etc.......in opposition to the protest organized by Kalpana Tickoo. My little action on the other hand was not to boost the stone pelting, but actually transformed the stone into paper, which was creative, which was about pushing non-violent forms of protest in the valley, unlike saying Geelini Hoon, which is nothing but provoking the stone pelters to pick up the Gun. May be you see it differently, i have very little to say about RSS minded politics of RIK. Do you think that recent killings in Kashmir were avoidable? do you blame UA for his role in shopian and then these killings..i see he is most hated man in the valley right now.... and he must have resigned... but Rahul Baba has given him the green signal.... so we have a situation similar to 1989... History repeats, first as tragedy then as farce..., but remember farce is more tragic than ....- about exodus KP have given the impression that they are quite happy outside Kashmir, and so what is the fuss.... you dont want any cultural restoration in valley, and you dismiss the entire valley as pro-pakistani pro geelani and anti -KP minded, then it is hopeless to think about return... how can you you live in a society which is against your very presence, so what is this noise of dream to return. ( idea of Panun Kashmir suits Indian agenda is not in any way serving the basic interest of KPs ) the best thing for KP was to discover right links in the valley, there are thousands who love us there, who love temples, who love our festivals, but KPs are only interested in politics which is unfortunately not functional. Govt of India does not need you, Home minister needs the smile of Geelani sahib, not yours, Your bond with nation is well recognized...so abut my waste of time: yes i dont have any material gain from writing all this, i want some saner sound to see the reason... sentimentality is not serving any good to KP community. but it is your choice.... Govt of India has certainly different priorities, you can criticize them, but will they listen to you... to dismiss the entire valley against music, poetry, art, theatre is quite not right.... i go there, and the fact is there is a deeper urge to start all over again...and it is here KP can join the idea...but..... well, i think you are quite involved with the political thinking of Kashmir but i feel we should give space to some music ( creativity ) to speak also what do you think love is .. On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Dear Inder, > > > > I am glad that you unlike many others on this forum who continue to wear > wool over their eyes & refuse to acknowledge that the Kashmiri secessionist > movement is indeed pan Islamism driven & that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were > indeed subjected to a systematic ethnic cleansing in the valley, have at > least dared to respond to the ‘post’ even if not in outright agreement. > > > > It is appreciable that you at least admit that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits ‘had > to leave’ because there was a ‘genuine threat’ to their ‘life’ & ‘dignity’ > in the wake of the killing of ‘many innocent’ Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. Just > to add to that, it wasn’t mere ‘killings’ but the brutality with which the > killings were executed as per a systematically worked out diabolic plan to > unleash ethnic cleansing in Kashmir that forced the hapless community to > abandon their homes & hearths. This ‘Jagmohan’ factor used by the > separatists & their propagandists/sympathisers alike to hide their shame > only belittles your concern which I would want to believe is genuine. > > > > First thing first- I think it is utterly outrageous to even insinuate that > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are ‘fond’ of speaking about their exodus whenever > there is an opportunity. You would agree that as the first victims of jihadi > terror since its advent on Indian soil, Kashmiri Pandits can not be deprived > of their basic right to ‘speak’ about their brutal ‘exodus’ however > uncomforting it may sound to the self acclaimed secular liberals. > > Dear, why should you mind even that? After all, you did not mind giving > that self-glorified performance to boost the moral of the Kashmiri Muslim > ‘stone pelters’ & their sympathisers who had the audacity to rant ‘azadi’/’ > ‘nizame Mustafa’ slogans in Kashmir at Jantar Mantra recently. It is unfair > on your part to be constantly critical of Kashmiri Pandits rendered refugees > in their own country. > > > > As for your comments on the other members on this forum, I am sure they > would respond to you appropriately. But personally, I would prefer to avoid > any discussion on the statements, even if provocative in nature, by the > members of the minorities who chose to stay back for what ever reasons & I > would request not to rake up the issue lest you jeopardise their security. > > > > Please do not forget that there is a standing fatwa from the patriarch of > ‘azadi- bara- e- Islam’ on Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that they can only return > if they are ready to join ‘their’ freedom ‘struggle’. The honourable > parliamentarians’ visit to his home might suggest the helplessness of Indian > democracy but I will be more concerned about what these parliamentarians > speak about the visit on their return. I do concede that the sagging status > of the Moolvi moonlighting as a separatist leader as well as the former > terror commander who unabashedly continues to take credit for having founded > the ‘gun culture’ in the valley will get a boost & so the war for the post > of Emir of Kashmir will only intensify & the agony of Kashmiris only gets > prolonged. > > > > I can only say that but for the blunders committed by the successive Govts. > Kashmir would not have been an issue at all. It is the continued appeasement > & the policy to promote dynasties that has prevented integration of Kashmir > with the main stream India. The role played by the so called civil society > is even worse –its continued pampering of the secessionists has only > > facilitated the growth of rabid pan -Islamic mindset in the valley. Today, > ordinary Kashmiri Muslims are being held hostage by none other than their > own who are out there in the streets creating mayhem at the behest of > proponents of Azadi- bara- e- Islam. > > > > Yes, you are right, Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are facing crisis. It is not so > simple to be living with the ignominy of being refugees in your own country. > You may prefer to ignore it but Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are perusing a > political agenda to return to the valley of their ancestors where their > safety & dignity are guaranteed under one Indian secular constitution only. > ‘Two flags’ & ‘two constitutions’ have failed to stop persecution of > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that began with the arrival of militant Islam in the > medieval times in Kashmir. > > > > You may have your own reasons to be infatuated with the Kashmiri > pan-Islamists who want to resurrect medievalism in Kashmir. Just because you > think you can’t fight ‘them’ does not imply that you should be joining them. > I would like to make it clear that my love for India & the > > tri- colour is unconditional. I am proud of my Hindu identity & it in no way > prevents me from regarding all other religious communities as equal > stakeholders in this country. > > > > I fail to understand your confidence in your belief that Kashmiri language, > heritage, music, poetry are well preserved in the hands of those who > consider heritage (other than Islamic), music & even poetry against the > religion that is sought to be ‘the law’ in Kashmir. I am sure you are aware > of the historical distortions that are being invented by the vested > interests in Kashmir today. > > > > I do not agree with your contention that the present conflict is between the > Govt. of India & the ‘people of Kashmir’. No, please do not ‘generalise’. > Most Kashmiris would find it offensive to be associated with obscurantisms. > You would be wasting your time & energy in propagating the separatist > propaganda in seeking the Kashmiri Pandits’ return to connect with the > ‘Kashmiri Muslims’. Please correct your perceptions. I have genuine > grievances against Kashmiri Muslims in general for they failed to protect a > miniscule minority in their neighbourhoods, but there is no hatred as such. > I have said it earlier if at all the so called Kashmiriyat exists today it > is in the hearts of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits far awy from Kashmir in refugee > camps & outside. And I also believe, that status quo will not be everlasting > in Kashmir. The process of death & destruction initiated by the ‘sons of the > soil’ themselves in the name of religion driven separatism will eventually > singe the valley (the sparks are beginning to be seen even now) & that is > when the hitherto silent because of fear & religious blackmail, Kashmiri > Muslim masses will be out in the streets to chase the separatists to POK > where they actually deserve to be, in the lap of their Pakistani masters. > Don’t forget, Kashmiris have done it earlier, when they spurned the two > nation theory author-Mr. Jinnah’s moves to seduce them. > > Rgds > > LA > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:08:27 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic >> roots >> >> Dear Lalit >> I have written it earlier also >> but i repeat, not for you also but many KP brothers who are fond of >> speaking about exodus as and when there is any opportunity. >> >> well, recently i met a KP friend who was quite upset with Aditya Raj >> Kaul who remained mum during a TV discussion ( some Times channel ) on >> exodus of KPs from valley in 90. It was some Sikh representative, >> Mr.Jagat Singh ( perhaps ) who said that KPs left the valley on their >> own. which was music to Bilal Lone, the other conversant in the room. >> May be Mr. Aditya Raj Koul ji can clarify it in detail. The discussion >> was about the recent threat to Sikh community by some elements who >> wanted them leave the valley. I see little TV myself...so dont know >> the exact thing... >> >> On the other hand, i maintain the fact that KPs had to leave the >> valley in 1990 because there was a genuine threat to life and dignity, >> given the fact that many innocent KPs were killed. Jagmohan indeed >> provided curfew relaxation to those who wanted to leave, but he is not >> the core player of KP exodus. However, the contradiction remain that >> GOI was knowing it all from word go, and remained silent spectators to >> worsening situation... it is still mystery to me... ( in other words i >> see GOI as a direct cause of KP exodus, not only historically but in >> 1990 as well ) >> >> It is the same Aditya who said Geelani hoon hia hia, atJantar Mantar >> recently, ( Down with Geelaii dog ) which i found utterly >> unparliamentary since i have never heard SAS Geelani saying such >> things openly to KPs ( this i am saying after i have deep problems >> with his only religious political card for Kashmir conflict ) It is >> the same SAS Geelani who is refusing indian Home Minister to meet. I >> wrote earlier also that Chidambaram would go to Kashmir and knock his >> door for a meeting for peace...Where does RIK people stand, >> politically... >> >> But Geelani sahib is not the only one who represents Kashmir conflict >> at the core. there are others, and there are people in general who >> represent themselves now... see how SAS Geelani's call for hartal was >> rejected recently..... it is not easy for GOI to cut a deal with >> Huriyat even... so where do KPs hard core anti KM politics stand.... >> >> Well, KPs right now facing cultural identity crises at the moment... >> They are rapidly realizing that there will no Kashmiiri seapking boy >> or girl after one or two decades down the line. If there will be >> anybody able to recite Lad Ded or Krishan joo razdan, it will be KM >> from valley... >> >> so what use to unfurl Tricolour in front of people protesting about >> the recent killings at Jantar Mantar. >> The best thing KPs can do is to reconnect themselves with KM's in the >> valley and restore cultural links... the situation is quite different >> from 1990, things can change if KP love their language, heritage, >> music, poetry... sorry not this Nationalism.. which is of no use in >> deeper sense.... believe me... >> >> that is the only real thing i feel, if KP begin with anything >> positive..... >> that way they can dream to return back, even... >> >> seemingly the conflict is between Govt of India and the people of >> kashmir, so KP ought to give time to the most vital thing... the real >> kashmir is also about its ancient echos, not Hindu religous identity >> alone... that too will be political.. but we need guts >> >> >> I know you will point out the fact that KPs too are kashmirs. >> but i want to know how, not only in the present, but after2 or three >> decades... >> >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Lalit Ambardar >> wrote: >> > >> > My apologies.There is a minor correction in the subject line ,hence this >> > repeated mail. >> > >> > Rgds all >> > >> > LA >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of >> > Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to admit 'pan >> > Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going Kashmiri >> > scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on Kashmir >> > takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by 'positions'.Here >> > is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times >> > >> > New Delhi, September 18, 2010 >> > Our secularism will >> > withstand any opposition >> > I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting >> > frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described again >> > and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. >> > By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the >> > accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri elections >> > were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, the army >> > subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. >> > Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about >> > Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is determined to >> > hang on by force to Kashmir. >> > Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has begun >> > to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes an India >> > that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know we do not >> > hold. >> > In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not guided >> > by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the overwhelming emotion >> > when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of bewilderment. The >> > vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and the >> > demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? And >> > what is it that they actually want? >> > There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We >> > recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military presence in >> > a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where curfew >> > is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by the stories >> > of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. >> > But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a >> > response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till 1989, >> > Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went in only >> > after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, after >> > kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis thronged to >> > Kashmir from across the border. >> > Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, the >> > State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is >> > obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule of law. >> > Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. Indian >> > soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. But each >> > time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the Armed Forces >> > Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to increase. There >> > is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be greeted by >> > a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. >> > Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state violence >> > in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say that >> > they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army presence is >> > unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. >> > From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is >> > bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average Kashmiri has >> > the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian State >> > spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is vastly >> > greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average Bihari. >> > Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. >> > Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has not been >> > true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party (PDP)-government was >> > legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference regime. >> > Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that Indians who >> > reside in other parts of the country do not have. >> > We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, >> > there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. >> > Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of India — >> > Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have managed to >> > fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist sentiment. But >> > what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this generation of >> > Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession? >> > More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris want. >> > Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled Pakistan? Who >> > wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of national >> > collapse? >> > Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi minorities >> > well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a genocide. The >> > Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a shining >> > advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. >> > Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. >> > But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no >> > industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India >> > or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to >> > strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the >> > world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that America or >> > any great power would support the creation of such a state. >> > So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and >> > pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer but we >> > suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular India, >> > religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. We find >> > the notion of a state founded only on religious identity old-fashioned and >> > bizarre. >> > But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything >> > else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from the >> > Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim (after the >> > ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many takers. >> > This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri separatists >> > apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel no >> > kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. >> > But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it >> > poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are now so fed >> > up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our fears for >> > the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this would not >> > be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession would >> > mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. >> > Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire to >> > protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the world that >> > India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack Kashmiri >> > Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that the >> > Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism survived >> > that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may misrepresent >> > our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph again. >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Wed Sep 22 22:21:01 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:21:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <1565587615-1284917019-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1995610844-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> References: <1565587615-1284917019-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1995610844-@bda289.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <008c01cb5a76$58e710d0$0ab53270$@in> I have never doubt Amnesty integrity as human right activists. But, they did nothing to avert Iraq war is questionable. Not a single statement against the US for their war plan. My statement still stands "I have not heard about their advise to separatists or terrorists to stop innocent killings. If you have read this provide me the link". Since the site addresses in your mail you have provided does not prove anything against separatists before or after June 2010 onwards. Since separatists are the main responsible of the violence in the valley and not the arm forces or Indian government. Your posted sites of Amnesty even do not indicate anything against terrorist also. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of shuddha at sarai.net Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:56 PM To: reader-list at sarai.net Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: shuddha at sarai.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:24:39 To: Bipin Trivedi Reply-To: shuddha at sarai.net Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir For all your informations. Amnesty International takes very strong public positions agasinst the human rights abuses perpetrated against Iraqis by US forces and indeed against human rights abuses within the ambit of US prisons. When Bipin Trivedi makes false allegations against Amnesty International on this list he only reveals the extent of his ignorance and arrogance. Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Bipin Trivedi Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:43:03 To: 'anupam chakravartty' Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Anupam, Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue Pakistan. But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the lollipop of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of life would have been saved. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not interfere. When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Sep 22 22:22:11 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:22:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' Message-ID: Dear All, Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar Geelani in today's Greater Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal responsibility'. And how he talks about the value of repeated entreaties. Hope it will be of interest to all. best Shuddha ----------------------------------- Come home, Come soon : On the hoped for return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September 2010 http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. Anita. As her name would suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my form-teacher at school. I remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm today. I remember how Anita Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position in my class. I also remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the best of the lot! I remember everything. Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our Kashmir, full of sweet memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in the same school, playing together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, attending marriage functions, birthday parties, offering condolences when someone in the neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other and even engaging in smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in thin air. Peace didn't stay, it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful memories in 'Angels Public School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public School' and 'Shaheen Public School' in Srinagar soon started turning into nightmares. The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my school were now being hit by stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets replaced the 'recess' and 'period' bells in my school. 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything changed, dramatically. I remember everything. How Indian troopers humiliated my elderly people, day in and day out; how they slapped me after on their directions (read orders) I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit pasted on an electric pole in our locality; how they stared at me, abused, hurled choicest invectives and threatened me while walking on my streets for no fault of mine; how they made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows on an undeclared curfew day, when I and my other classmates were to appear in class 10th papers at Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all happened in early years of 1990's. The memories of their abuses and slaps haunt me, still. I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch and Kill', the firing incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, mine blasts, encounters, massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans for freedom from India, slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans against Pandit brethren. And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my Valley. That was a painful memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious Governor of the strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits. But, I will blame myself Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, not influential enough to be responsible for their migration or to prevent their exodus; but I still blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, as a proud Kashmiri nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, it may be my idealism. Yes, I know those were not ideal times. Who's responsible for this? Today, there are television debates on Indian media about 'Kashmiriyat'. Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've too many answers coming. Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some blame militants and pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others blame the unfortunate circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former Governor Mr. Jagmohan, others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir while few others maintain that what happened was unfortunate and should never have actually happened, but the migration could not have been avoided during those hard times. I've a different take on the issue. I believe that I'm responsible for the exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of Kashmir as a whole is responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also believe that Pandits too are responsible for their migration. For the simple reason that together we shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, exemplary friendships and harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, should have never allowed the circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, our history; and above all our great cultural bonds! But they did. Was it possible? Though in my previous articles I may have pointed fingers at the politics of Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of pro- freedom alliance Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani Lone, but here I must shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost his father, Mirwiaz Molvi Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone brothers lost their father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth death anniversary of Molvi Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone and Bilal Lone too had an option to leave Kashmir and get settled down abroad, far away from hell in Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face the challenges the circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to them! Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. During late 1990's my mother was seriously wounded when militants hurled a grenade towards a bunker of Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The grenade missed the intended target, as would quite often happen during those days, and thus like many other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted on my mother too. Her left foot was badly wounded and it took almost four years to heal, though not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. We too had the option. Because my father had his shawl business running successfully in Kolkata since almost three decades. Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' and avoided leaving Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. May be it wasn't possible. Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! 'Life hasn't been easy' Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after migration. It hasn't been easy for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in different parts of India. Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu Television in Hyderabad, India in 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories of migration. Sameer, his wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the scorching heat of Jammu while sitting in a temporary shed that consisted of only one-room. His stories were very moving and would often leave a pang in my heart. Like hundreds of other Pandit families, his family too had left Kashmir in early 1990's. A close Pandit friend of my father in Rainawari, Srinagar, too had to leave Kashmir alongwith his entire family. Their house was burnt down and reduced to ashes. This friend of my father also used to buy shawls from us. At the time of migration he owed us a lot of money, the cheque he had given to my father bounced. After apologizing he promised to repay every single penny in installments once he settled down in Kolkata. My father offered all possible help and said to the family that they need not to pay our money back, because we understood what they had gone through. But, as an honest businessman he kept his word, his promise; and repaid all due amount in smaller installments in the following years. That is Pandit pride! My father's friend kept the friendship going, his Pandit pride alive and with it the reputation of an honest trader too. 'Burden of unique expectations' Kashmir is a special place having its unique history. During our marriage ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way that is unique. It is unparalleled. No where else in the world invitation is extended or expected like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook and twitter; an information and technology age, particular members of a Kashmiri family- that has fixed marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to homes of their close relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an invitation. Then, some two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation card is sent; as the marriage date comes closer several telephonic calls are made, and then a final call too. At times, even this may not be enough and that is perhaps why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums during marriage ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking tactics! If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and attend the marriage ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of them do not come, no one is surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It is the result of their great and unique tradition and history that they've such huge expectations from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not blaming or accusing each other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking attention and expecting a lot! To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If we left Kashmir, why didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two calls enough? Shouldn't you be doing more and calling us back and receiving us with open arms?" And Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when things were tough here, you shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? Shouldn't you've faced the challenges of the circumstances like we did? Shouldn't you have stayed and never gone? Both actually expect a lot from each other! There is no communal disharmony in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been challenging and the going has been hard and tough. The movement for freedom in Kashmir is not against Kashmiri Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian people, it is against the Indian state and its wicked state-craft. Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of them. Please come back. 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in Bonn, Germany since 2006, where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of Germany] as an Editor. gowhargeelani at gmail.com) Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From aliens at dataone.in Wed Sep 22 22:55:10 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:55:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR MOVEMENT Message-ID: <008d01cb5a7b$1c414d30$54c3e790$@in> Lalit, thanks for posting Vir Sanghvi article. Vir Sanghvi says, "Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the world's Jihadi. You would have to be very naive to believe that America or any great power would support the creation of such a state. So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and pointless insurrection?" Vir sanghavi has pointed out the right things and alerting common Kashmiri people. I have also posted my thought on the same line and posting again. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. Of course US will be pleased to help since freedom of Kashmir is also hidden agenda of US. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 00:25:19 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:25:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks dear Shuddha for this wonderful forward Lot of people on the list have this impression that all the Muslims in the valley think that Pandits left the valley on their own, or Jagmohan convinced them so..... But that is not the fact. Majority of Muslims in valley miss Pandits, and want their return to kashmir. Both the communities love each others simplicity and want to restore that co-existence in the valley. It was in 1986 that congress J&K Chief Mufi Mohd Syed thought to outwit the NC-Congress alliance by instigating communal riots. The subsequent rigging of elections ensured the beginning of Pakistan sponsored Gun culture, which automatically pushed out Pandits from Valley. Qazi Nissar was MUF canditate ( killed by militants later ) who never said a word against Pandits in his lectures. When passion for Azadi was really at peak, that time even, neighbors helped Pandits to move out safely. But now when lot of Muslims brothers have suffered,( first by securities excess then by rogue militans, then by both, and now by SOG and all that... ) sincerely want Pandits back in their homes. That is my feeling... But the problem with Pandit leadership is that they have different priorities: one of them is extreme love for Indian Nationalism, its Tricolour etc, which is not a sin, but in Kashmir it complicates the problems, since Kashmir is a conflict zone between differnt parties. But the bonds between Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits is based on shared cultural heritage, music food, simplicity and above all language, and not because of some conflict. So, Pandit communty need to decide what is good for them . My humble suggestion is that both the communities need more visibility through multiple interactive cultural sessions .... I dont see any political role for Kashmiri Pandits to play in Kashmir or outside. The number game is quite vital in any democratic form of politics, as we know, and Kashmiri pandits are very few, that too scattered all over the country. The interaction is already happening at a very personal level. There are exchanges and friendly meetings even during this time. Both the communities are nostalgic about their past, one can only wish a happy new beginning between the two.. with love is On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All, > > Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar Geelani in today's Greater > Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal responsibility'. And how he > talks about the value of repeated entreaties.  Hope it will be of interest > to all. > > best > > Shuddha > > ----------------------------------- > > > > Come home,  Come soon : On the hoped for return of Kashmiri Pandits to > Kashmir > > Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September 2010 > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp > > > I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. Anita. As her name would > suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my form-teacher at school. I > remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha > Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm today. I remember how Anita > Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position in my class. I also > remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the best of the lot! I remember > everything. > > Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our Kashmir, full of sweet > memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in the same school, playing > together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, attending marriage > functions, birthday parties, offering condolences when someone in the > neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other and even engaging in > smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. > > 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' > Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in thin air. Peace didn't stay, > it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful memories in 'Angels Public > School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public School' and 'Shaheen Public > School' in Srinagar soon started turning into nightmares. > > The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and > Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my school were now being hit by > stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets replaced the 'recess' and > 'period' bells in my school. > > 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' > Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything changed, dramatically. I > remember everything. How Indian troopers humiliated my elderly people, day > in and day out; how they slapped me after on their directions (read orders) > I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit pasted on an electric pole in > our locality; how they stared at me, abused, hurled choicest invectives and > threatened me while walking on my streets for no fault of mine; how they > made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows on an undeclared curfew > day, when I and my other classmates were to appear in class 10th papers at > Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all happened in early years of 1990's. > The memories of their abuses and slaps haunt me, still. > > I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch and Kill', the firing > incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, mine blasts, encounters, > massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans for freedom from India, > slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans against Pandit brethren. > > And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my Valley. That was a painful > memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious Governor of the > strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits. > But, I will blame myself > Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, not influential enough to > be responsible for their migration or to prevent their exodus; but I still > blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, as a proud Kashmiri > nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, it may be my idealism. Yes, > I know those were not ideal times. > > Who's responsible for this? > Today, there are television debates on Indian media about 'Kashmiriyat'. > Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've too many answers coming. > Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some blame militants and > pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others blame the unfortunate > circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former Governor Mr. Jagmohan, > others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir while few others maintain > that what happened was unfortunate and should never have actually happened, > but the migration could not have been avoided during those hard times. > > I've a different take on the issue. I believe that I'm responsible for the > exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of Kashmir as a whole is > responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also believe that Pandits too > are responsible for their migration. For the simple reason that together we > shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, exemplary friendships and > harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, should have never allowed the > circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, our history; and above all > our great cultural bonds! But they did. > > Was it possible? > Though in my previous articles I may have pointed fingers at the politics of > Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of pro-freedom alliance > Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani Lone, but here I must > shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost his father, Mirwiaz Molvi > Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone brothers lost their > father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth death anniversary of Molvi > Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone and Bilal Lone too had an > option to leave Kashmir and get settled down abroad, far away from hell in > Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face the challenges the > circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to them! > > Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. During late 1990's my mother > was seriously wounded when militants hurled a grenade towards a bunker of > Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The grenade missed the intended > target, as would quite often happen during those days, and thus like many > other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted on my mother too. Her > left foot was badly wounded and it took almost four years to heal, though > not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. We too had the option. > Because my father had his shawl business running successfully in Kolkata > since almost three decades. > > Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' and avoided leaving > Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. May be it wasn't possible. > Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! > > 'Life hasn't been easy' > Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after migration. It hasn't been easy > for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in different parts of India. > Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu Television in Hyderabad, India in > 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories of migration. Sameer, his > wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the scorching heat of Jammu while > sitting in a temporary shed that consisted of only one-room. His stories > were very moving and would often leave a pang in my heart. Like hundreds of > other Pandit families, his family too had left Kashmir in early 1990's. A > close Pandit friend of my father in Rainawari, Srinagar, too had to leave > Kashmir alongwith his entire family. Their house was burnt down and reduced > to ashes. This friend of my father also used to buy shawls from us. At the > time of migration he owed us a lot of money, the cheque he had given to my > father bounced. After apologizing he promised to repay every single penny in > installments once he settled down in Kolkata. My father offered all possible > help and said to the family that they need not to pay our money back, > because we understood what they had gone through. But, as an honest > businessman he kept his word, his promise; and repaid all due amount in > smaller installments in the following years. That is Pandit pride! My > father's friend kept the friendship going, his Pandit pride alive and with > it the reputation of an honest trader too. > > 'Burden of unique expectations' > Kashmir is a special place having its unique history. During our marriage > ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way that is unique. It is > unparalleled. No where else in the world invitation is extended or expected > like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook and twitter; an information > and technology age, particular members of a Kashmiri family- that has fixed > marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to homes of their close > relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an invitation. Then, some > two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation card is sent; as the > marriage date comes closer several telephonic calls are made, and then a > final call too. At times, even this may not be enough and that is perhaps > why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums during marriage > ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking tactics! > > If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and attend the marriage > ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of them do not come, no one is > surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri > Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It is the result of their > great and unique tradition and history that they've such huge expectations > from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not blaming or accusing each > other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking attention and expecting a lot! > > To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If we left Kashmir, why > didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two calls enough? Shouldn't you > be doing more and calling us back and receiving us with open arms?" And > Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when things were tough here, you > shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? Shouldn't you've faced the > challenges of the circumstances like we did? Shouldn't you have stayed and > never gone? > > Both actually expect a lot from each other! There is no communal disharmony > in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been challenging and the going has been > hard and tough. The movement for freedom in Kashmir is not against Kashmiri > Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian people, it is against the > Indian state and its wicked state-craft. > Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of them. Please come back. > 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! > > (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in Bonn, Germany since 2006, > where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of Germany] as an Editor. > gowhargeelani at gmail.com) > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 03:52:42 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:22:42 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of KashmiriPandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' References: Message-ID: <0FB630E6D0A741C58B21E07A47152047@tara> Is this journalist calling KPs to Germany or Kashmir? Wherever, it is a right kind of noise to make when you know pandits have no one but themselves responsible for returning to the valley when renewed threats to other minorities have become the orfer of the day. Neither someone sitting in Germany nor someone sitting in Delhi can take responsibility of lives in a place death and disorder is the order of the day. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "sarai-list List" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of KashmiriPandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' > Dear All, > > Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar Geelani in today's > Greater Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal responsibility'. > And how he talks about the value of repeated entreaties. Hope it will be > of interest to all. > > best > > Shuddha > > ----------------------------------- > > > > Come home, Come soon : On the hoped for return of Kashmiri Pandits to > Kashmir > > Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September 2010 > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp > > > I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. Anita. As her name > would suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my form-teacher at > school. I remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti Koul, Teja > Ma'am and Usha Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm today. I > remember how Anita Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position in my > class. I also remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the best of the > lot! I remember everything. > > Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our Kashmir, full of sweet > memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in the same school, playing > together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, attending marriage > functions, birthday parties, offering condolences when someone in the > neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other and even engaging in > smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. > > 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' > Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in thin air. Peace didn't > stay, it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful memories in 'Angels > Public School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public School' and 'Shaheen > Public School' in Srinagar soon started turning into nightmares. > > The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan > and Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my school were now being > hit by stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets replaced the > 'recess' and 'period' bells in my school. > > 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' > Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything changed, dramatically. > I remember everything. How Indian troopers humiliated my elderly people, > day in and day out; how they slapped me after on their directions (read > orders) I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit pasted on an > electric pole in our locality; how they stared at me, abused, hurled > choicest invectives and threatened me while walking on my streets for no > fault of mine; how they made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows > on an undeclared curfew day, when I and my other classmates were to > appear in class 10th papers at Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all > happened in early years of 1990's. The memories of their abuses and slaps > haunt me, still. > > I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch and Kill', the firing > incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, mine blasts, > encounters, massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans for > freedom from India, slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans > against Pandit brethren. > > And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my Valley. That was a painful > memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious Governor of the > strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits. > But, I will blame myself > Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, not influential enough > to be responsible for their migration or to prevent their exodus; but I > still blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, as a proud > Kashmiri nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, it may be my > idealism. Yes, I know those were not ideal times. > > Who's responsible for this? > Today, there are television debates on Indian media about 'Kashmiriyat'. > Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've too many answers > coming. Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some blame > militants and pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others blame the > unfortunate circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former Governor Mr. > Jagmohan, others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir while few others > maintain that what happened was unfortunate and should never have > actually happened, but the migration could not have been avoided during > those hard times. > > I've a different take on the issue. I believe that I'm responsible for > the exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of Kashmir as a whole > is responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also believe that Pandits > too are responsible for their migration. For the simple reason that > together we shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, exemplary > friendships and harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, should have > never allowed the circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, our > history; and above all our great cultural bonds! But they did. > > Was it possible? > Though in my previous articles I may have pointed fingers at the politics > of Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of pro- freedom alliance > Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani Lone, but here I must > shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost his father, Mirwiaz > Molvi Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone brothers lost > their father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth death anniversary > of Molvi Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone and Bilal Lone > too had an option to leave Kashmir and get settled down abroad, far away > from hell in Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face the > challenges the circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to them! > > Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. During late 1990's my > mother was seriously wounded when militants hurled a grenade towards a > bunker of Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The grenade missed the > intended target, as would quite often happen during those days, and thus > like many other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted on my mother > too. Her left foot was badly wounded and it took almost four years to > heal, though not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. We too > had the option. Because my father had his shawl business running > successfully in Kolkata since almost three decades. > > Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' and avoided leaving > Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. May be it wasn't > possible. Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! > > 'Life hasn't been easy' > Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after migration. It hasn't been > easy for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in different parts of > India. Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu Television in > Hyderabad, India in 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories of > migration. Sameer, his wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the > scorching heat of Jammu while sitting in a temporary shed that consisted > of only one-room. His stories were very moving and would often leave a > pang in my heart. Like hundreds of other Pandit families, his family too > had left Kashmir in early 1990's. A close Pandit friend of my father in > Rainawari, Srinagar, too had to leave Kashmir alongwith his entire > family. Their house was burnt down and reduced to ashes. This friend of > my father also used to buy shawls from us. At the time of migration he > owed us a lot of money, the cheque he had given to my father bounced. > After apologizing he promised to repay every single penny in installments > once he settled down in Kolkata. My father offered all possible help and > said to the family that they need not to pay our money back, because we > understood what they had gone through. But, as an honest businessman he > kept his word, his promise; and repaid all due amount in smaller > installments in the following years. That is Pandit pride! My father's > friend kept the friendship going, his Pandit pride alive and with it the > reputation of an honest trader too. > > 'Burden of unique expectations' > Kashmir is a special place having its unique history. During our marriage > ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way that is unique. It is > unparalleled. No where else in the world invitation is extended or > expected like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook and twitter; an > information and technology age, particular members of a Kashmiri family- > that has fixed marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to homes of > their close relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an invitation. > Then, some two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation card is > sent; as the marriage date comes closer several telephonic calls are > made, and then a final call too. At times, even this may not be enough > and that is perhaps why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums > during marriage ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking tactics! > > If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and attend the marriage > ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of them do not come, no one > is surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that Kashmiri Pandits or > Kashmiri Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It is the result > of their great and unique tradition and history that they've such huge > expectations from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not blaming or > accusing each other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking attention and > expecting a lot! > > To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If we left Kashmir, why > didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two calls enough? Shouldn't > you be doing more and calling us back and receiving us with open arms?" > And Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when things were tough > here, you shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? Shouldn't > you've faced the challenges of the circumstances like we did? Shouldn't > you have stayed and never gone? > > Both actually expect a lot from each other! There is no communal > disharmony in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been challenging and the > going has been hard and tough. The movement for freedom in Kashmir is not > against Kashmiri Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian people, > it is against the Indian state and its wicked state-craft. > Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of them. Please come > back. 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! > > (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in Bonn, Germany since > 2006, where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of Germany] as an Editor. > gowhargeelani at gmail.com) > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kaksanjay at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 10:25:25 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:25:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] for admirers of Javed Akhtar Message-ID: A comment on Shabana Azmi's 60th birthday party, and the cake served up by her partner Javed Akhtar: By Parvez Sharma in the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/22/slumdog-birthday-cake-shabana-azmi "The half-eaten cake is a baked replica of what a slum looks like to India's large middle class and its rather small elite. A river seems to run through it in blue icing but a careful look reveals it is a nallah or a sewage-filled open drain – the trademark of neighbourhoods where India's urban poor build their makeshift homes. A clothes line full of washing can also be seen among the remains of the cake. Apparently, this was the idea of Shabana's husband, who thought it would be amusing." From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 10:31:02 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:31:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of KashmiriPandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' In-Reply-To: <0FB630E6D0A741C58B21E07A47152047@tara> References: <0FB630E6D0A741C58B21E07A47152047@tara> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha , Please leave Kashmiri Pandit to their own fate . Justifying "personal responsiblity " by a jurnolist for safeguarding Pandits , who himslef lives abroad is laughable. You in have a habit of rubbing salt over our wonds many times , please do not inflict more pain on us. We would be obliged. We know our destination ....Homeland Pawan On 9/23/10, TaraPrakash wrote: > Is this journalist calling KPs to Germany or Kashmir? Wherever, it is a > right kind of noise to make when you know pandits have no one but themselves > responsible for returning to the valley when renewed threats to other > minorities have become the orfer of the day. Neither someone sitting in > Germany nor someone sitting in Delhi can take responsibility of lives in a > place death and disorder is the order of the day. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > To: "sarai-list List" > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:52 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of > KashmiriPandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' > > >> Dear All, >> >> Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar Geelani in today's >> Greater Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal responsibility'. >> >> And how he talks about the value of repeated entreaties. Hope it will be >> >> of interest to all. >> >> best >> >> Shuddha >> >> ----------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Come home, Come soon : On the hoped for return of Kashmiri Pandits to >> Kashmir >> >> Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September 2010 >> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp >> >> >> I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. Anita. As her name >> would suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my form-teacher at >> school. I remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti Koul, Teja >> Ma'am and Usha Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm today. I >> remember how Anita Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position in my >> >> class. I also remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the best of the >> >> lot! I remember everything. >> >> Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our Kashmir, full of sweet >> memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in the same school, playing >> >> together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, attending marriage >> functions, birthday parties, offering condolences when someone in the >> neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other and even engaging in >> smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. >> >> 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' >> Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in thin air. Peace didn't >> stay, it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful memories in 'Angels >> Public School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public School' and 'Shaheen >> Public School' in Srinagar soon started turning into nightmares. >> >> The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan >> and Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my school were now being >> >> hit by stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets replaced the >> 'recess' and 'period' bells in my school. >> >> 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' >> Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything changed, dramatically. >> >> I remember everything. How Indian troopers humiliated my elderly people, >> day in and day out; how they slapped me after on their directions (read >> orders) I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit pasted on an >> electric pole in our locality; how they stared at me, abused, hurled >> choicest invectives and threatened me while walking on my streets for no >> fault of mine; how they made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows >> >> on an undeclared curfew day, when I and my other classmates were to >> appear in class 10th papers at Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all >> happened in early years of 1990's. The memories of their abuses and slaps >> >> haunt me, still. >> >> I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch and Kill', the firing >> incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, mine blasts, >> encounters, massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans for >> freedom from India, slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans >> against Pandit brethren. >> >> And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my Valley. That was a painful >> >> memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious Governor of the >> strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits. >> But, I will blame myself >> Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, not influential enough >> >> to be responsible for their migration or to prevent their exodus; but I >> still blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, as a proud >> Kashmiri nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, it may be my >> idealism. Yes, I know those were not ideal times. >> >> Who's responsible for this? >> Today, there are television debates on Indian media about 'Kashmiriyat'. >> Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've too many answers >> coming. Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some blame >> militants and pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others blame the >> unfortunate circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former Governor Mr. >> >> Jagmohan, others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir while few others >> >> maintain that what happened was unfortunate and should never have >> actually happened, but the migration could not have been avoided during >> those hard times. >> >> I've a different take on the issue. I believe that I'm responsible for >> the exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of Kashmir as a whole >> is responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also believe that Pandits >> too are responsible for their migration. For the simple reason that >> together we shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, exemplary >> friendships and harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, should have >> never allowed the circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, our >> history; and above all our great cultural bonds! But they did. >> >> Was it possible? >> Though in my previous articles I may have pointed fingers at the politics >> >> of Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of pro- freedom alliance >> >> Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani Lone, but here I must >> shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost his father, Mirwiaz >> Molvi Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone brothers lost >> their father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth death anniversary >> >> of Molvi Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone and Bilal Lone >> too had an option to leave Kashmir and get settled down abroad, far away >> from hell in Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face the >> challenges the circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to them! >> >> Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. During late 1990's my >> mother was seriously wounded when militants hurled a grenade towards a >> bunker of Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The grenade missed the >> intended target, as would quite often happen during those days, and thus >> like many other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted on my mother >> >> too. Her left foot was badly wounded and it took almost four years to >> heal, though not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. We too >> had the option. Because my father had his shawl business running >> successfully in Kolkata since almost three decades. >> >> Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' and avoided leaving >> Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. May be it wasn't >> possible. Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! >> >> 'Life hasn't been easy' >> Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after migration. It hasn't been >> easy for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in different parts of >> India. Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu Television in >> Hyderabad, India in 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories of >> migration. Sameer, his wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the >> scorching heat of Jammu while sitting in a temporary shed that consisted >> of only one-room. His stories were very moving and would often leave a >> pang in my heart. Like hundreds of other Pandit families, his family too >> had left Kashmir in early 1990's. A close Pandit friend of my father in >> Rainawari, Srinagar, too had to leave Kashmir alongwith his entire >> family. Their house was burnt down and reduced to ashes. This friend of >> my father also used to buy shawls from us. At the time of migration he >> owed us a lot of money, the cheque he had given to my father bounced. >> After apologizing he promised to repay every single penny in installments >> >> once he settled down in Kolkata. My father offered all possible help and >> said to the family that they need not to pay our money back, because we >> understood what they had gone through. But, as an honest businessman he >> kept his word, his promise; and repaid all due amount in smaller >> installments in the following years. That is Pandit pride! My father's >> friend kept the friendship going, his Pandit pride alive and with it the >> reputation of an honest trader too. >> >> 'Burden of unique expectations' >> Kashmir is a special place having its unique history. During our marriage >> >> ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way that is unique. It is >> unparalleled. No where else in the world invitation is extended or >> expected like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook and twitter; an >> >> information and technology age, particular members of a Kashmiri family- >> that has fixed marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to homes of >> >> their close relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an invitation. >> Then, some two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation card is >> sent; as the marriage date comes closer several telephonic calls are >> made, and then a final call too. At times, even this may not be enough >> and that is perhaps why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums >> during marriage ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking tactics! >> >> If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and attend the marriage >> ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of them do not come, no one >> is surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that Kashmiri Pandits or >> Kashmiri Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It is the result >> of their great and unique tradition and history that they've such huge >> expectations from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not blaming or >> >> accusing each other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking attention and >> expecting a lot! >> >> To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If we left Kashmir, why >> didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two calls enough? Shouldn't >> you be doing more and calling us back and receiving us with open arms?" >> And Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when things were tough >> here, you shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? Shouldn't >> you've faced the challenges of the circumstances like we did? Shouldn't >> you have stayed and never gone? >> >> Both actually expect a lot from each other! There is no communal >> disharmony in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been challenging and the >> going has been hard and tough. The movement for freedom in Kashmir is not >> >> against Kashmiri Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian people, >> it is against the Indian state and its wicked state-craft. >> Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of them. Please come >> back. 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! >> >> (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in Bonn, Germany since >> 2006, where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of Germany] as an Editor. >> gowhargeelani at gmail.com) >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kaksanjay at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 10:32:40 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:32:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir 2010: The Year of Killing Youth" Message-ID: Srinagar based journalist Pravaiz Bukhari has this comment on the recent events in 'The Nation' http://www.thenation.com/article/154964/kashmir-2010-year-killing-youth "India’s brutal crackdown against unarmed protesters adds to the long local memory of extrajudicial killings, torture and mass repression. In the battle of stone versus bullet, the “Gen Next” of Kashmir feel they have a moral advantage over the might of the Indian state." best Sanjay From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Thu Sep 23 13:36:40 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 01:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Inviting Support for Jalebi Ink: Media for Young People Message-ID: <919198.85876.qm@web54408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Excerpts from http://is.gd/fohHJ - Jalebi Ink is an independent content space for young people where they talk about, report and write on their world, their news, issues that matter to them. We promote the right of young people to be heard. We have expertise in the conceptualization and production of media by and for young people across multiple platforms, including online, television, radio, print and publishing. Recently, one of our citizen journalism projects – This Used To Be My Playground (a project to map disappearing play spaces in urban areas) -- was shortlisted for the prestigious 2010 Knights Challenge Award. I am sending you some links to Jalebi Ink’s ongoing projects. Best wishes, Anuradha Sengupta Founder-Editor Jalebi Ink www.jalebiink.com Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jalebi-Ink/120863297941920 Flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jalebiink/sets/ We are currently looking for partners/sponsors/funds/coprorate tie-ups for the following: 1. The Jalebi Ink website. Ads, sponsors etc. There's a whole lot of sections that are sponsor-friendly. 2.We are also looking for all kinds of volunteers - the most important are designers for our website and our newspaper. And people who will help us get funds and tie-ups. The latter will get paid on a commission basis. 3.People/ organisations like Dell, Apple, Canon etc who will donate equipment like cameras, computers, laptops etc (used and new) for our projects. SPONSORS, ADS and CORPORATE TIE-UPS ARE ALSO NEED FOR THE FOLLOWING JI PROJECTS 1. EarthTalk: Our monthly newsmagazine on the environment produced entirely by children and young people. Our future plans include creating an online presence for EarthTalk including video and audio clips. The newspaper will be distributed through newsstands, bookstores, clubs etc and through subscriptions. We will be partnering with Dharavi's ACORN Foundation to help child ragpickers in the area bring out a newspaper about their issues. 4. My Mohalla: Community Portraits & Stories: Children will research the visual, oral, and written records of their own communities for stories and images to share with others. This is our most critically acclaimed project. We have had queries from Prince of Wales Museum wanting to start the project at their premises. We have had people like Cannes award-winning director Faiza Khan wanting to document the project. Hindustan Times has called it "a living diary for Mumbai by children". From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 14:17:48 2010 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:17:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Second Exodus from Kashmir-now,it is Muslims(IANS) Message-ID: Unlike Shuddha I have comments or claims to make -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jammu: Reminiscent of the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the valley in the early 1990s, Muslims caught this time between stone-throwers and security forces are moving from Srinagar to Jammu in the dark of the night. 'I didn't inform anyone in the neighbourhood where I was headed,' Abid Ahmad, who left Srinagar and came here with his family a week ago, told IANS on the condition that his locality be not disclosed as it could spell trouble whenever he returned. Many like Ahmad are fleeing the strife-torn Kashmir Valley - where violent protests and clashes have left over 100 dead in the past three months - to escape the stones hurled by mobs and the retaliatory guns of security forces. And they usually undertake their journey to Jammu, 294 km south, between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. 'It's the time when stone-throwers are resting and the policemen are busy warming themselves around bonfires on roadsides,' said Ahmad, who started his journey from Sringar along with his family at 3 a.m. While Kashmir is a Muslim-majority area, Jammu is dominated by Hindus. Over 100 families, according to unofficial estimates, might have reached Jammu post-Eid (Sep 11), when mobs went on the rampage in Srinagar, burning government offices after prayers. And the trend is continuing. Because of this, Jammu, the state's winter capital, is witnessing quite a buzz in its hotels, resthouses and rented accommodations much ahead of the bi-annual shift in the seat of the government. Said Ramprakash Sharma, a property dealer: 'In the past week, I've arranged rented accommodation for 15 Kashmiri families. This number is unusually high...Earlier Kashmiris used to come for winter months only.' The valley has been seeing an unending cycle of violence since June 11, where hurling of stones shows the anger of youth, and the police react with bullets. Apart from claiming the lives of over 100 civilians, the violence has left a large number wounded. Life there has come to a standstill, with shops, schools, banks and other institutions closed due to separatist-sponsored shutdowns and the curfew imposed by authorities in an attempt to maintain calm. *Sharing their miseries, the migrants tell their Kashmiri Hindu friends, who had migrated to Jammu 20 years ago: 'Now we know why the Pandits fled and that too in the darkness of night.' * Over 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits living in the valley migrated when violence erupted there in 1990. Most of them came to Jammu and were housed by the government in various camps on the edges of the city. They had to initially live in tents until the authorities built one-room tenements for them. The recent migrants from the valley curse everyone responsible for turning their lives into a nightmare -- the stone-throwers, separatists, policemen and the 'non-existing' government. 'I had to face stone-throwers almost every day...they would physically assault me. And the policemen would threaten me for driving during curfew,' said Mohammad Sultan, a driver with a government department who has shifted his family here. But he will return to the valley for his job. 'They all are looking after their (own) interests...not knowing the pain of the common people,' Sultan rued. But it's not that easy in Jammu either. Here they face many questions -- hotels ask for identity cards, and policemen visit them to verify all sorts of details. And they are scared of disclosing too much to the police, fearing some might give out their details to the stone throwers back home. Asked if the government was doing anything, a young girl said: 'Which government are you talking about? (Hardline separatist leader) Syed Ali Geelani runs the government of stone-throwers, who stone people...and the Omar Adullah government is non-existent.' The girl, now showing signs of depression, narrated how her car was stoned and the policemen fled the scene in a locality in downtown Srinagar. A 39-member all-party delegation led by union Home Minister P. Chidambaram visited Jammu and Kashmir for two days to get a sense of the ground situation before deciding on steps to defuse tensions. But its visit also caused problems for people here Tuesday. 'We were checked at every place and asked not to venture out because the delegation was here,' said a harassed Kashmir University professor who arrived here Monday. Most of those from the valley say they are just waiting to undertake the journey back home in daylight -- when stone-throwers retreat and curfew is lifted. Best Regards -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Thu Sep 23 14:22:07 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 01:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] EdelGive's Social Innovation Honours 2011: Inviting Applications Message-ID: <243922.37139.qm@web54409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Excerpts from http://bit.ly/bZYyg8 - EdelGive Social Innovation Honours 2011is a national awards programme instituted by EdelGive Foundation, to reward innovative work in the social sector in India. EdelGive Social Innovation Honours will identify and reward organisations that are innovating to empower women in India. Prize money of INR 50 Lakhs will be awarded to the winners across the five categories of health & well being, education, economic security & livelihoods, social and cultural rights and governance. Deadline: 23 Oct EdelGive Foundation is an initiative of Edelweiss Capital Limited and provides strategic direction to the philanthropic activities of Edelweiss, its employees, clients and associates. EdelGive’s key priority is to focus on the areas of education, livelihoods and supporting women’s empowerment. From parvaizbukhari at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 14:33:31 2010 From: parvaizbukhari at gmail.com (Parvaiz Bukhari) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:33:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Second Exodus from Kashmir-now, it is Muslims(IANS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: so, should we expect the government to build hutmernts for Muslim migrants too? Gujarat perhaps would be a good place for them to go to. would there be another layer of reservations in professional colleges for Muslim migrants too? which side of the political spectrum in India will lap the new migrants up? Any comments? Anybody including Alok himself? On 23 September 2010 14:17, rashneek kher wrote: > Unlike Shuddha I have comments or claims to make > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html > > > > http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jammu: Reminiscent of the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the valley in the > early 1990s, Muslims caught this time between stone-throwers and security > forces are moving from Srinagar to Jammu in the dark of the night. > > 'I didn't inform anyone in the neighbourhood where I was headed,' Abid > Ahmad, who left Srinagar and came here with his family a week ago, told > IANS > on the condition that his locality be not disclosed as it could spell > trouble whenever he returned. > > > Many like Ahmad are fleeing the strife-torn Kashmir Valley - where violent > protests and clashes have left over 100 dead in the past three months - to > escape the stones hurled by mobs and the retaliatory guns of security > forces. And they usually undertake their journey to Jammu, 294 km south, > between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. > > > 'It's the time when stone-throwers are resting and the policemen are busy > warming themselves around bonfires on roadsides,' said Ahmad, who started > his journey from Sringar along with his family at 3 a.m. > > > While Kashmir is a Muslim-majority area, Jammu is dominated by Hindus. > > > Over 100 families, according to unofficial estimates, might have reached > Jammu post-Eid (Sep 11), when mobs went on the rampage in Srinagar, burning > government offices after prayers. And the trend is continuing. > > > Because of this, Jammu, the state's winter capital, is witnessing quite a > buzz in its hotels, resthouses and rented accommodations much ahead of the > bi-annual shift in the seat of the government. > > > Said Ramprakash Sharma, a property dealer: 'In the past week, I've arranged > rented accommodation for 15 Kashmiri families. This number is unusually > high...Earlier Kashmiris used to come for winter months only.' > > > The valley has been seeing an unending cycle of violence since June 11, > where hurling of stones shows the anger of youth, and the police react with > bullets. > > > Apart from claiming the lives of over 100 civilians, the violence has left > a > large number wounded. Life there has come to a standstill, with shops, > schools, banks and other institutions closed due to separatist-sponsored > shutdowns and the curfew imposed by authorities in an attempt to maintain > calm. > > > *Sharing their miseries, the migrants tell their Kashmiri Hindu friends, > who > had migrated to Jammu 20 years ago: 'Now we know why the Pandits fled and > that too in the darkness of night.' * > > > Over 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits living in the valley migrated when violence > erupted there in 1990. Most of them came to Jammu and were housed by the > government in various camps on the edges of the city. They had to initially > live in tents until the authorities built one-room tenements for them. > > > The recent migrants from the valley curse everyone responsible for turning > their lives into a nightmare -- the stone-throwers, separatists, policemen > and the 'non-existing' government. > > > 'I had to face stone-throwers almost every day...they would physically > assault me. And the policemen would threaten me for driving during curfew,' > said Mohammad Sultan, a driver with a government department who has shifted > his family here. > > > But he will return to the valley for his job. > > > 'They all are looking after their (own) interests...not knowing the pain of > the common people,' Sultan rued. > > > But it's not that easy in Jammu either. Here they face many questions -- > hotels ask for identity cards, and policemen visit them to verify all sorts > of details. And they are scared of disclosing too much to the police, > fearing some might give out their details to the stone throwers back home. > > > Asked if the government was doing anything, a young girl said: 'Which > government are you talking about? (Hardline separatist leader) Syed Ali > Geelani runs the government of stone-throwers, who stone people...and the > Omar Adullah government is non-existent.' > > > The girl, now showing signs of depression, narrated how her car was stoned > and the policemen fled the scene in a locality in downtown Srinagar. > > > A 39-member all-party delegation led by union Home Minister P. Chidambaram > visited Jammu and Kashmir for two days to get a sense of the ground > situation before deciding on steps to defuse tensions. > > > But its visit also caused problems for people here Tuesday. 'We were > checked > at every place and asked not to venture out because the delegation was > here,' said a harassed Kashmir University professor who arrived here > Monday. > > > > Most of those from the valley say they are just waiting to undertake the > journey back home in daylight -- when stone-throwers retreat and curfew is > lifted. > > Best Regards > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From fsrnkashmir at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 14:37:00 2010 From: fsrnkashmir at gmail.com (Shahnawaz Khan) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:37:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Second Exodus from Kashmir-now, it is Muslims(IANS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How many thousand crores are needed now. On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Parvaiz Bukhari wrote: > so, should we expect the government to build hutmernts for Muslim migrants > too? Gujarat perhaps would be a good place for them to go to. would there > be another layer of reservations in professional colleges for Muslim > migrants too? which side of the political spectrum in India will lap the > new > migrants up? > > Any comments? Anybody including Alok himself? > > On 23 September 2010 14:17, rashneek kher wrote: > > > Unlike Shuddha I have comments or claims to make > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html > > > > > > > > > http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Jammu: Reminiscent of the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the valley in > the > > early 1990s, Muslims caught this time between stone-throwers and security > > forces are moving from Srinagar to Jammu in the dark of the night. > > > > 'I didn't inform anyone in the neighbourhood where I was headed,' Abid > > Ahmad, who left Srinagar and came here with his family a week ago, told > > IANS > > on the condition that his locality be not disclosed as it could spell > > trouble whenever he returned. > > > > > > Many like Ahmad are fleeing the strife-torn Kashmir Valley - where > violent > > protests and clashes have left over 100 dead in the past three months - > to > > escape the stones hurled by mobs and the retaliatory guns of security > > forces. And they usually undertake their journey to Jammu, 294 km south, > > between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. > > > > > > 'It's the time when stone-throwers are resting and the policemen are busy > > warming themselves around bonfires on roadsides,' said Ahmad, who started > > his journey from Sringar along with his family at 3 a.m. > > > > > > While Kashmir is a Muslim-majority area, Jammu is dominated by Hindus. > > > > > > Over 100 families, according to unofficial estimates, might have reached > > Jammu post-Eid (Sep 11), when mobs went on the rampage in Srinagar, > burning > > government offices after prayers. And the trend is continuing. > > > > > > Because of this, Jammu, the state's winter capital, is witnessing quite a > > buzz in its hotels, resthouses and rented accommodations much ahead of > the > > bi-annual shift in the seat of the government. > > > > > > Said Ramprakash Sharma, a property dealer: 'In the past week, I've > arranged > > rented accommodation for 15 Kashmiri families. This number is unusually > > high...Earlier Kashmiris used to come for winter months only.' > > > > > > The valley has been seeing an unending cycle of violence since June 11, > > where hurling of stones shows the anger of youth, and the police react > with > > bullets. > > > > > > Apart from claiming the lives of over 100 civilians, the violence has > left > > a > > large number wounded. Life there has come to a standstill, with shops, > > schools, banks and other institutions closed due to separatist-sponsored > > shutdowns and the curfew imposed by authorities in an attempt to maintain > > calm. > > > > > > *Sharing their miseries, the migrants tell their Kashmiri Hindu friends, > > who > > had migrated to Jammu 20 years ago: 'Now we know why the Pandits fled and > > that too in the darkness of night.' * > > > > > > Over 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits living in the valley migrated when violence > > erupted there in 1990. Most of them came to Jammu and were housed by the > > government in various camps on the edges of the city. They had to > initially > > live in tents until the authorities built one-room tenements for them. > > > > > > The recent migrants from the valley curse everyone responsible for > turning > > their lives into a nightmare -- the stone-throwers, separatists, > policemen > > and the 'non-existing' government. > > > > > > 'I had to face stone-throwers almost every day...they would physically > > assault me. And the policemen would threaten me for driving during > curfew,' > > said Mohammad Sultan, a driver with a government department who has > shifted > > his family here. > > > > > > But he will return to the valley for his job. > > > > > > 'They all are looking after their (own) interests...not knowing the pain > of > > the common people,' Sultan rued. > > > > > > But it's not that easy in Jammu either. Here they face many questions -- > > hotels ask for identity cards, and policemen visit them to verify all > sorts > > of details. And they are scared of disclosing too much to the police, > > fearing some might give out their details to the stone throwers back > home. > > > > > > Asked if the government was doing anything, a young girl said: 'Which > > government are you talking about? (Hardline separatist leader) Syed Ali > > Geelani runs the government of stone-throwers, who stone people...and the > > Omar Adullah government is non-existent.' > > > > > > The girl, now showing signs of depression, narrated how her car was > stoned > > and the policemen fled the scene in a locality in downtown Srinagar. > > > > > > A 39-member all-party delegation led by union Home Minister P. > Chidambaram > > visited Jammu and Kashmir for two days to get a sense of the ground > > situation before deciding on steps to defuse tensions. > > > > > > But its visit also caused problems for people here Tuesday. 'We were > > checked > > at every place and asked not to venture out because the delegation was > > here,' said a harassed Kashmir University professor who arrived here > > Monday. > > > > > > > > Most of those from the valley say they are just waiting to undertake the > > journey back home in daylight -- when stone-throwers retreat and curfew > is > > lifted. > > > > Best Regards > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kaksanjay at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 21:28:30 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 21:28:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "We are the world's biggest Banana Republic" Message-ID: Strong words, from one of the TOI's staffers! The smell has become difficult to contain, I guess Best Sanjay ------------------------------ We are the world's biggest Banana Republic Shobhan Saxena 23 September 2010, 07:59 PM IST http://author.toiblogs.com/Main-Street/entry/we-are-a-banana-republic-and-it-s-going-to-the-dogs A couple of days ago, a Scottish delegate got a shock of his life this week when he saw a dog shitting on a bed inside a 'swanky' apartment in the Commonwealth Games village in Delhi. The Scotsman clicked a photo of the dog, and now the picture is part of the evidence submitted by the Scottish delegation to the Organising Committee to prove that the multi-million dollar village is not fit for "human habitation". In the past few days, foreign TV crews and photographers have been busy chasing and clicking photos of dogs – peeing and shitting in the apartments, running on practice tracks, jumping into swimming pools and sleeping under the police cars and other vehicles parked at Games sites and venues. The foreigners are horrified – and scared – by the sight of street dogs running wild at the "sanitized areas". For them, it's a sign that India is not ready for the Games and the infrastructure here is not "world class". There is no doubt now that India's carefully created, and airbrushed, image of an 'emerging superpower' and the 'second-fastest growing economy' in the world rots in the piles of rubbish across Delhi. The myth of 'India Shining' (BJP's slogan) and 'India Rising' (the Congress' slogan) has been busted. We have proved to the world – and to ourselves as well – that we are a third world banana republic which is falling into a bottomless pit. I am not worried about the mismanagement at the Games sites. We shouldn't have organized the Games at all. The country which in 63 years of independence hasn't been bale to provide proper living houses, clean drinking water, uninterrupted electricity, fulltime jobs, healthy food, clean air and free education to all its citizens despite spending trillions of dollars, how did you expect the same country to pull off an international sporting event without it sinking into the slime and grime of corruption and bad governance. I am not justifying corruption, but it's a fact that graft is part and parcel of capitalism, though the level differs from country to country. This has been proved by western politicians and Wall Street bankers in the past couple of years. In US, the bankers and financial giants robbed the American people, mostly the middle and working-class, clean and then declared themselves bankrupt, and they were bailed out by the US government with public money. This was the world's biggest daylight robbery. And no one, except Michael Moore, raised a red flag. In the US, this brazen act of corruption made thousands of houses go under water and millions jobless, but in India something more sinister and dark has happened in the garb of the Games. In the past two years, the governments of this country and this city have launched a full-scale war on the poor. Millions of poor people from the country's dustbowls have been brought here to work at the Games construction sites. They have been working day and night at the venues and living like animals under plastic sheets, sleeping on wet ground and eating filthy food. That food is just about enough to keep their body and soul together so that they can build the glass and chrome buildings and showcase India Shining to the world. In 21st century India, the street dogs are luckier than the poor. The dogs make news for shitting in swanky beds and the poor workers go to snake-infested swamps to take a leak at night, get bitten and die and not a soul is stirred. On one hand the government has brought these people from poverty-ravaged villages to work on its corruption-tainted buildings, and on the other hand lakhs of hard-working but poor people have been thrown out of the city so that the foreigners coming here for the Games do not see the ugly side of India. Thousands of people living in Yamuna Pushta area were plucked from their houses and dumped on a piece of wasteland in Haryana. Beggars were packed off earlier. Now, the police are scanning the slums of Delhi and Gurgaon and people are being forced to take trains back to their villages. These people have been living and working here for years and suddenly they have been asked to leave. The government doesn't want any filth in the city during the Games. It's putting bamboo screens in front of the slums. But, now the filth is out in the open. The mismanagement and corruption has been exposed by the photos of dirty, filthy and unhygienic apartments at the Games village. And guess who gets blamed for it. Not the politicians or babus or contractors but the poor workers at the site. And when 27 workers got injured on Wednesday when the footbridge near the JL Nehru stadium collapsed, they were herded like animals into private vehicles and dumped at a sarkari hospital. No ambulance for them, no post-recovery package for them. Just Rs 50,000 in damages for broken legs, heads and spinal chords. And, to hide the hide the accident near the Nehru stadium, the area was cordoned off and cops in full riot gear were stationed so that ordinary people and media and foreigners can't get anywhere near the site of one more horrendous accident. Suddenly, the government has one solution for every problem across the country: post heavily-armed police and paramilitary men at the scene of a "disturbance" and give them a license to shoot at will. It happens everyday in Srinagar. It's happening everyday in the jungles of Chhattisgarh. It's happening in the villages of West Bengal. It's happening in the villages of UP. Now, with Ayodhya verdict round the corner, the temple town is being turned into a fortress with men in khaki swarming over it. These are the symptoms of a failed state. We make tall claims about growth, but we treat out poor worse than animals. We aspire to be world power, but we can't even provide drinking water to all our citizens. We claim to be world's biggest democracy, but we 'solve' all our social and political problems with loaded guns in hand. It's time we accepted that we are a banana republic and we are going to the dogs. (end) From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 21:40:30 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 21:40:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] how reading a news item is too slippery...... Message-ID: Muni Badnam hui, darling tarey liye, Mein Zandu Balm hui darling tarey liye When i heard this hit number, now famous bollywood at the moment I immediately thought that Zadhu Balm people had given lot of money to Dabang Film producers for promoting their brand through the song. Quite normal.... But when Zandu Balm issued a legal notice to Film Producer about giving bad publicity i felt strange, but thought they are right, because Malika Khan's dancing gesture indeed arouses sexual passions only...not bad to my eyes, but may be not for people in general, so, i was curious to know what damages the company would demand, millions of ruppees perhaps, i thought... But today news turned proved me wrong.... The settlement between the film maker and Zandu company is that Malika Khan, the hot babe will endorse the product in other ways also...... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/Munni-to-endorse-Zandu-balm/articleshow/6606885.cms not easy to understand how rich people play games with money, market and public sentiment love is -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aliens at dataone.in Thu Sep 23 22:00:42 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 22:00:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01cb5b3c$aac51840$004f48c0$@in> Dear Inder, I appreciate your attitude towards Pandits and so many are their like you in Kashmir but could not dare to come out fearing of militants or separatists. If everyone thinks like that in Kashmir there want be any problem and Kashmir will be on the right track. Thanks accepting about the beginning of Pak sponsored gun culture for which you give reason rigging of election. However, the tense situation initiated by Pak will be there even if election rigging was not there. So at one place it is proved that Pak with the help of few local Kashmiri played key role to push out Kashmiri Pandit from valley. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:25 AM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' Thanks dear Shuddha for this wonderful forward Lot of people on the list have this impression that all the Muslims in the valley think that Pandits left the valley on their own, or Jagmohan convinced them so..... But that is not the fact. Majority of Muslims in valley miss Pandits, and want their return to kashmir. Both the communities love each others simplicity and want to restore that co-existence in the valley. It was in 1986 that congress J&K Chief Mufi Mohd Syed thought to outwit the NC-Congress alliance by instigating communal riots. The subsequent rigging of elections ensured the beginning of Pakistan sponsored Gun culture, which automatically pushed out Pandits from Valley. Qazi Nissar was MUF canditate ( killed by militants later ) who never said a word against Pandits in his lectures. When passion for Azadi was really at peak, that time even, neighbors helped Pandits to move out safely. But now when lot of Muslims brothers have suffered,( first by securities excess then by rogue militans, then by both, and now by SOG and all that... ) sincerely want Pandits back in their homes. That is my feeling... But the problem with Pandit leadership is that they have different priorities: one of them is extreme love for Indian Nationalism, its Tricolour etc, which is not a sin, but in Kashmir it complicates the problems, since Kashmir is a conflict zone between differnt parties. But the bonds between Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits is based on shared cultural heritage, music food, simplicity and above all language, and not because of some conflict. So, Pandit communty need to decide what is good for them . My humble suggestion is that both the communities need more visibility through multiple interactive cultural sessions .... I dont see any political role for Kashmiri Pandits to play in Kashmir or outside. The number game is quite vital in any democratic form of politics, as we know, and Kashmiri pandits are very few, that too scattered all over the country. The interaction is already happening at a very personal level. There are exchanges and friendly meetings even during this time. Both the communities are nostalgic about their past, one can only wish a happy new beginning between the two.. with love is On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All, > > Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar Geelani in today's Greater > Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal responsibility'. And how he > talks about the value of repeated entreaties. Hope it will be of interest > to all. > > best > > Shuddha > > ----------------------------------- > > > > Come home, Come soon : On the hoped for return of Kashmiri Pandits to > Kashmir > > Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September 2010 > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp > > > I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. Anita. As her name would > suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my form-teacher at school. I > remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha > Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm today. I remember how Anita > Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position in my class. I also > remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the best of the lot! I remember > everything. > > Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our Kashmir, full of sweet > memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in the same school, playing > together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, attending marriage > functions, birthday parties, offering condolences when someone in the > neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other and even engaging in > smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. > > 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' > Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in thin air. Peace didn't stay, > it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful memories in 'Angels Public > School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public School' and 'Shaheen Public > School' in Srinagar soon started turning into nightmares. > > The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and > Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my school were now being hit by > stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets replaced the 'recess' and > 'period' bells in my school. > > 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' > Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything changed, dramatically. I > remember everything. How Indian troopers humiliated my elderly people, day > in and day out; how they slapped me after on their directions (read orders) > I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit pasted on an electric pole in > our locality; how they stared at me, abused, hurled choicest invectives and > threatened me while walking on my streets for no fault of mine; how they > made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows on an undeclared curfew > day, when I and my other classmates were to appear in class 10th papers at > Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all happened in early years of 1990's. > The memories of their abuses and slaps haunt me, still. > > I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch and Kill', the firing > incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, mine blasts, encounters, > massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans for freedom from India, > slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans against Pandit brethren. > > And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my Valley. That was a painful > memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious Governor of the > strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits. > But, I will blame myself > Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, not influential enough to > be responsible for their migration or to prevent their exodus; but I still > blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, as a proud Kashmiri > nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, it may be my idealism. Yes, > I know those were not ideal times. > > Who's responsible for this? > Today, there are television debates on Indian media about 'Kashmiriyat'. > Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've too many answers coming. > Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some blame militants and > pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others blame the unfortunate > circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former Governor Mr. Jagmohan, > others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir while few others maintain > that what happened was unfortunate and should never have actually happened, > but the migration could not have been avoided during those hard times. > > I've a different take on the issue. I believe that I'm responsible for the > exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of Kashmir as a whole is > responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also believe that Pandits too > are responsible for their migration. For the simple reason that together we > shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, exemplary friendships and > harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, should have never allowed the > circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, our history; and above all > our great cultural bonds! But they did. > > Was it possible? > Though in my previous articles I may have pointed fingers at the politics of > Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of pro-freedom alliance > Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani Lone, but here I must > shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost his father, Mirwiaz Molvi > Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone brothers lost their > father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth death anniversary of Molvi > Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone and Bilal Lone too had an > option to leave Kashmir and get settled down abroad, far away from hell in > Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face the challenges the > circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to them! > > Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. During late 1990's my mother > was seriously wounded when militants hurled a grenade towards a bunker of > Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The grenade missed the intended > target, as would quite often happen during those days, and thus like many > other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted on my mother too. Her > left foot was badly wounded and it took almost four years to heal, though > not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. We too had the option. > Because my father had his shawl business running successfully in Kolkata > since almost three decades. > > Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' and avoided leaving > Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. May be it wasn't possible. > Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! > > 'Life hasn't been easy' > Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after migration. It hasn't been easy > for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in different parts of India. > Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu Television in Hyderabad, India in > 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories of migration. Sameer, his > wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the scorching heat of Jammu while > sitting in a temporary shed that consisted of only one-room. His stories > were very moving and would often leave a pang in my heart. Like hundreds of > other Pandit families, his family too had left Kashmir in early 1990's. A > close Pandit friend of my father in Rainawari, Srinagar, too had to leave > Kashmir alongwith his entire family. Their house was burnt down and reduced > to ashes. This friend of my father also used to buy shawls from us. At the > time of migration he owed us a lot of money, the cheque he had given to my > father bounced. After apologizing he promised to repay every single penny in > installments once he settled down in Kolkata. My father offered all possible > help and said to the family that they need not to pay our money back, > because we understood what they had gone through. But, as an honest > businessman he kept his word, his promise; and repaid all due amount in > smaller installments in the following years. That is Pandit pride! My > father's friend kept the friendship going, his Pandit pride alive and with > it the reputation of an honest trader too. > > 'Burden of unique expectations' > Kashmir is a special place having its unique history. During our marriage > ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way that is unique. It is > unparalleled. No where else in the world invitation is extended or expected > like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook and twitter; an information > and technology age, particular members of a Kashmiri family- that has fixed > marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to homes of their close > relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an invitation. Then, some > two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation card is sent; as the > marriage date comes closer several telephonic calls are made, and then a > final call too. At times, even this may not be enough and that is perhaps > why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums during marriage > ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking tactics! > > If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and attend the marriage > ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of them do not come, no one is > surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri > Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It is the result of their > great and unique tradition and history that they've such huge expectations > from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not blaming or accusing each > other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking attention and expecting a lot! > > To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If we left Kashmir, why > didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two calls enough? Shouldn't you > be doing more and calling us back and receiving us with open arms?" And > Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when things were tough here, you > shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? Shouldn't you've faced the > challenges of the circumstances like we did? Shouldn't you have stayed and > never gone? > > Both actually expect a lot from each other! There is no communal disharmony > in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been challenging and the going has been > hard and tough. The movement for freedom in Kashmir is not against Kashmiri > Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian people, it is against the > Indian state and its wicked state-craft. > Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of them. Please come back. > 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! > > (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in Bonn, Germany since 2006, > where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of Germany] as an Editor. > gowhargeelani at gmail.com) > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 00:10:59 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:10:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' In-Reply-To: <000f01cb5b3c$aac51840$004f48c0$@in> References: <000f01cb5b3c$aac51840$004f48c0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Gowhar thanks the most magical thing would have been a non-violent struggle in 1990 itself. alas... but i guess, we have a long history of getting things done through the barrel of gun, earlier it was sword. What the violence has achieved so far: affluent class from Kashmir are constantly thinking to have an alternative space outside Kashmir, in Delhi or in Jammu even, leaving behind the rural poor masses to face the music. People in Kashmir need to restore the confidence of the its own intellectual class, who inwardly yearn for a more democratic voice. The more violence is there the more people will think about material security, the more it can corrupt the mind... which is actually happening... it is besides the point that why security forces are trigger happy in the valley . ( for a while i am holding back the profound nature of what VIOLENCE actually means to us... ) The trouble is that we are never in a position to restore the things lost, exactly as we once experienced... Things change at a very rapid pace every time, every day, every year..and when at thisjuncture we have a violent protest minus gun, it should be an opportunity to all the stake holders to start something fresh. Taking about kashmir about Indian and anti indian position would actually limit its scope to open up spaces for other voices to join. Kashmiri stuggle should have a unique indigenous voice, and i dont think they need to be dependent upon moral and political and material support from Pakistan . Kashmris perhaps need to shun the Gun culture once for all, and think creatively about the Kashmir issue, rather something which is based on long term strategy. The question why AZADI ? needs a sincere discourse to disseminate the idea of new free Kashmir. What is pressing for most of the educated youth that whether they should listen to people like Dr. ZAkir Naik or about what suits them actually. Riding on the shoulders of faith will be again a temporary repreive, since people finally dont need a straight jacketed belief system to carry on their routine, I am not too optimistic here, but still, i love the kashmiri way of life, which is its own... not like Iraqi, or Punjabi, Sindhi etc... so, to weave the Kashmir discourse with the Kashmir culture will perhaps salvage the psyche of Kashmiri youth who are really hurt by the violence unleashed by all agencies... Kashmir discourse is beyond vengeance of recent innocent killings, even. . shall keep on thinking myself..... love is On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Inder, > > I appreciate your attitude towards Pandits and so many are their like you in Kashmir but could not dare to come out fearing of militants or separatists. If everyone thinks like that in Kashmir there want be any problem and Kashmir will be on the right track. Thanks accepting about the beginning of Pak sponsored gun culture for which you give reason rigging of election. However, the tense situation initiated by Pak will be there even if election rigging was not there. So at one place it is proved that Pak with the help of few local Kashmiri played key role to push out Kashmiri Pandit from valley. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:25 AM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' > > Thanks dear Shuddha for this wonderful forward > > Lot of people on the list have this impression that all the Muslims in > the valley think that Pandits left the valley on their own, or > Jagmohan convinced them so..... > > But that is  not the fact. Majority of Muslims in valley miss Pandits, > and want their return to kashmir. Both the communities love each > others simplicity and want to restore that co-existence in the valley. > > It was in 1986 that congress J&K Chief Mufi Mohd Syed thought to > outwit the NC-Congress alliance by instigating communal riots.  The > subsequent rigging of elections ensured the beginning of Pakistan > sponsored Gun culture, which automatically pushed out Pandits from > Valley. Qazi Nissar was MUF canditate ( killed by militants later ) > who never said a word against Pandits in his lectures. > > When passion for Azadi was really at peak, that time even, neighbors > helped Pandits to move out safely. But now when lot of Muslims > brothers have suffered,( first by securities excess then by rogue > militans, then by both, and now by SOG and all that... ) sincerely > want Pandits back in their homes. That is my feeling... > > But the problem with Pandit leadership is that they have different > priorities: one of them is extreme love for Indian Nationalism,  its > Tricolour etc, which is not a sin, but in Kashmir it complicates the > problems, since Kashmir is a conflict zone between differnt parties. > But  the bonds between Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits is based > on shared cultural heritage, music food,  simplicity and above all > language, and not because of some conflict. > > So, Pandit communty need to decide what is good for them . My humble > suggestion is that both the communities need more visibility through > multiple interactive cultural sessions  .... > > I dont see any political role for Kashmiri Pandits to play in Kashmir > or outside. The number game is quite vital in any democratic form of > politics, as we know, and Kashmiri pandits are very few, that too > scattered all over the country. > > The interaction is already happening at a very personal level. There > are exchanges and friendly  meetings even during this time. > > Both the communities are nostalgic about their past, one can only wish > a happy new beginning between the two.. > > with love > is > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar Geelani in today's Greater >> Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal responsibility'. And how he >> talks about the value of repeated entreaties.  Hope it will be of interest >> to all. >> >> best >> >> Shuddha >> >> ----------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Come home,  Come soon : On the hoped for return of Kashmiri Pandits to >> Kashmir >> >> Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September 2010 >> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp >> >> >> I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. Anita. As her name would >> suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my form-teacher at school. I >> remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha >> Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm today. I remember how Anita >> Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position in my class. I also >> remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the best of the lot! I remember >> everything. >> >> Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our Kashmir, full of sweet >> memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in the same school, playing >> together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, attending marriage >> functions, birthday parties, offering condolences when someone in the >> neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other and even engaging in >> smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. >> >> 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' >> Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in thin air. Peace didn't stay, >> it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful memories in 'Angels Public >> School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public School' and 'Shaheen Public >> School' in Srinagar soon started turning into nightmares. >> >> The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and >> Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my school were now being hit by >> stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets replaced the 'recess' and >> 'period' bells in my school. >> >> 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' >> Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything changed, dramatically. I >> remember everything. How Indian troopers humiliated my elderly people, day >> in and day out; how they slapped me after on their directions (read orders) >> I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit pasted on an electric pole in >> our locality; how they stared at me, abused, hurled choicest invectives and >> threatened me while walking on my streets for no fault of mine; how they >> made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows on an undeclared curfew >> day, when I and my other classmates were to appear in class 10th papers at >> Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all happened in early years of 1990's. >> The memories of their abuses and slaps haunt me, still. >> >> I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch and Kill', the firing >> incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, mine blasts, encounters, >> massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans for freedom from India, >> slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans against Pandit brethren. >> >> And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my Valley. That was a painful >> memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious Governor of the >> strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits. >> But, I will blame myself >> Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, not influential enough to >> be responsible for their migration or to prevent their exodus; but I still >> blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, as a proud Kashmiri >> nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, it may be my idealism. Yes, >> I know those were not ideal times. >> >> Who's responsible for this? >> Today, there are television debates on Indian media about 'Kashmiriyat'. >> Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've too many answers coming. >> Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some blame militants and >> pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others blame the unfortunate >> circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former Governor Mr. Jagmohan, >> others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir while few others maintain >> that what happened was unfortunate and should never have actually happened, >> but the migration could not have been avoided during those hard times. >> >> I've a different take on the issue. I believe that I'm responsible for the >> exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of Kashmir as a whole is >> responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also believe that Pandits too >> are responsible for their migration. For the simple reason that together we >> shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, exemplary friendships and >> harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, should have never allowed the >> circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, our history; and above all >> our great cultural bonds! But they did. >> >> Was it possible? >> Though in my previous articles I may have pointed fingers at the politics of >> Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of pro-freedom alliance >> Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani Lone, but here I must >> shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost his father, Mirwiaz Molvi >> Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone brothers lost their >> father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth death anniversary of Molvi >> Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone and Bilal Lone too had an >> option to leave Kashmir and get settled down abroad, far away from hell in >> Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face the challenges the >> circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to them! >> >> Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. During late 1990's my mother >> was seriously wounded when militants hurled a grenade towards a bunker of >> Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The grenade missed the intended >> target, as would quite often happen during those days, and thus like many >> other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted on my mother too. Her >> left foot was badly wounded and it took almost four years to heal, though >> not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. We too had the option. >> Because my father had his shawl business running successfully in Kolkata >> since almost three decades. >> >> Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' and avoided leaving >> Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. May be it wasn't possible. >> Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! >> >> 'Life hasn't been easy' >> Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after migration. It hasn't been easy >> for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in different parts of India. >> Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu Television in Hyderabad, India in >> 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories of migration. Sameer, his >> wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the scorching heat of Jammu while >> sitting in a temporary shed that consisted of only one-room. His stories >> were very moving and would often leave a pang in my heart. Like hundreds of >> other Pandit families, his family too had left Kashmir in early 1990's. A >> close Pandit friend of my father in Rainawari, Srinagar, too had to leave >> Kashmir alongwith his entire family. Their house was burnt down and reduced >> to ashes. This friend of my father also used to buy shawls from us. At the >> time of migration he owed us a lot of money, the cheque he had given to my >> father bounced. After apologizing he promised to repay every single penny in >> installments once he settled down in Kolkata. My father offered all possible >> help and said to the family that they need not to pay our money back, >> because we understood what they had gone through. But, as an honest >> businessman he kept his word, his promise; and repaid all due amount in >> smaller installments in the following years. That is Pandit pride! My >> father's friend kept the friendship going, his Pandit pride alive and with >> it the reputation of an honest trader too. >> >> 'Burden of unique expectations' >> Kashmir is a special place having its unique history. During our marriage >> ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way that is unique. It is >> unparalleled. No where else in the world invitation is extended or expected >> like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook and twitter; an information >> and technology age, particular members of a Kashmiri family- that has fixed >> marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to homes of their close >> relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an invitation. Then, some >> two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation card is sent; as the >> marriage date comes closer several telephonic calls are made, and then a >> final call too. At times, even this may not be enough and that is perhaps >> why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums during marriage >> ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking tactics! >> >> If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and attend the marriage >> ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of them do not come, no one is >> surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri >> Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It is the result of their >> great and unique tradition and history that they've such huge expectations >> from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not blaming or accusing each >> other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking attention and expecting a lot! >> >> To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If we left Kashmir, why >> didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two calls enough? Shouldn't you >> be doing more and calling us back and receiving us with open arms?" And >> Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when things were tough here, you >> shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? Shouldn't you've faced the >> challenges of the circumstances like we did? Shouldn't you have stayed and >> never gone? >> >> Both actually expect a lot from each other! There is no communal disharmony >> in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been challenging and the going has been >> hard and tough. The movement for freedom in Kashmir is not against Kashmiri >> Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian people, it is against the >> Indian state and its wicked state-craft. >> Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of them. Please come back. >> 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! >> >> (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in Bonn, Germany since 2006, >> where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of Germany] as an Editor. >> gowhargeelani at gmail.com) >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 00:59:46 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:59:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well dear Lalit you ignored many points which i raised, and added which i didnt anyways, it interest me a lot.because on both sides lies accumulate and what we have is a huge written volume of words which does not help either of the parties. However, the reality on the ground is that Kashmir is burning, and many innocent youths died, some for throwing stones, some not for pelting even. There is a huge number of protest against this excessive police force, and one of them respected Madhu Kishwar, and i dont think you will label her also anti democracy. Kashmir issue is not Indian game alone, it is an international game, in which kashmiris are only paying with their lives, first it was Kashmiri pandits then kashmiri muslims, then sikhs, then muslims.... you will not deny this fact, right. The game was started by India itself. you are constantly talking about Azadi bare islam ( whatever that means ) was not the the actual intention of Sheikh Mohd Abdullah. He was a very good muslim who named his son Farooq ( Farooq the Great, was the most powerful of the four Rashidun Caliphs ) but he welcomed Jinnah with a garland of shoes. Sheikh was right in demanding a separate nation for Jammu and Kashmir. Here, i think of Nepal or Bhutan which were not parts Indian union under British Rule, by your logic too, should have been annexed to India , but that did not happen, it did happen in kashmir because Sheikh sincerely approached Nehru to support. The rest is history. Sheikh was humiliated by India, and then by his own people. What a tragic hero, who will be judged by history more by his role as CM rather than his true being. He protected Hindus, where both Gandhi and Jinnah failed. He had a vision which none had that time. What happened to that vision. Have you ever heard Sheikh being discussed here in Delhi. Is there a single road in his name. Even a petty politican called Rajesh pilot has. India has always insulted the sensibility of kashmirs. KPs on the other hand were content with good job in Delhi after 1947. Kashmiri Pandits were loyal subject of the King Hari singh, and when that game ended they found orphaned, KPs should have been quick to embrace the vision of Sheikh but instead thought of Congress in Delhi, So,. it turned out that when Pakistan decided to repeat partition in kashmir, there was no Sheikh this time, no one to give a stren warning like he did in 47. and they had to move out. You should remember that when Sheikh punished Jamat-islami villages in kashmir after Zulikar Bhutto's hanging. But KPs never understood Sheikh, instead they always voted the corrupt cograesswala in the valley. The same Mufti syed who instigated communal violence in 1986. what is your take on that ? He was indian then, and you still have nothing against him, in comparison to SAS Geelani, that is how KPs think. it was the same congress and wooden headed Farooq whose lust for the power ousted KPs from the valley. On the contratry, it was Sr. PDP leader mr. Beg at Nehru memorial when he pointed out why Govt of India has never initiated action against Bitte Karate, why were you mum there ? GoI has different priorities, as i already pointed out, but you ignore them, even when you know that they were always against you in the valley, and even now. No wonder that religious voices are more louder in kashmir, since Indian policy makers thought it fitting to humiliate the secular sheikh and others of such nature. Well, you are free to write another long letter, in response to this, perhaps, aimed to highlight that how all the world muslims are united against Kafirs in the valley, but it is not so. i have faith in the some earlier bonds, much earlier than our recent beliefs artificially planted in us. with love is On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Dear Inder, > > > > I can understand this ‘Jagmohan’ fixation with the post 1989-90 Kashmir > watchers whose opinion seems to be more influenced by the separatists’ > propaganda than the ground realities that existed then in the valley. > > I appreciate your candid admission that the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri > Hindu Pandits was indeed planned by the Kashmiri pan Islamists & I think > this should enlighten & correct the perceptions of many on this forum who > regard the propaganda that emanates from the Kashmiri Islamists’ quarters as > Gospel truth. > > > > About the failure of the state to protect the hapless minority of Kashmiri > Hindu Pandits against the jihadists onslaught less said the better. I don’t > know if you are aware Kashmiri Pandits have been demanding a commission to > enquire in to the circumstances that lead to their mass exodus. The Govt. > instead appointed BG Varghese to report on the state of temples left behind > in the valley who obviously produced a document that said all was well even > while the traumatised Kshmiri Pandit refugees were struggling for basic > shelter in Jammu, Delhi & other places. > > > >  If you recall, when Farooq Abdullah resigned abdicating his > responsibilities & leaving the Kashmiri masses at the mercy of AK47 wielding > Kashmiri jihadists who paraded wearing symbolic shrouds & holy inscription > laden head bands openly in the streets of Kashmir, the police was left > demoralised & was seen even saluting the jihadi marauders . Selectively > killing of Kashmir Pandits had become order of the day. Do you really > believe that in an anarchic situation that prevailed then, the Governor > could have mobilised so much logistics across the length & breadth of > Kashmir valley in such a hostile environment to facilitate exodus of > Pandits. > > Dear Inder, it is not easy to leave your home & hearth just because some one > wants you to do that. > > I mentioned in the last mail that Kashmir could witness more of death & > destruction in coming days (it is not so difficult to guess that from the > pattern of all jihadi movements worldwide & in our neighbourhood in > particular) & that will lead to exodus, this time possibly of Kashmir > Muslims (as the reports suggest the process has already begun) & sure you > will still hold someone else responsible & not the proponents of ‘azadi- > bara –e- Islam’. > > > > About the Kashmiri Muslims in general I have already expressed my opinion in > my last post. > > And about preservation of Kashmir culture-that we are trying our best even > in exile & will once back home on our political agenda, I assure you our > culture –Kashmiri culture which has been the target of Islamists will > flourish & you will feel proud. > > > > You had mentioned that when ‘Nizame Mustafa in Kashmir’ slogans were raised > at Jantar Mantar, a ‘Bindi’ supporting sympathiser of the separatists was > ‘taken aback’ & it was only following your goading that she calmed down & > stayed on. I wish I could know her ‘reaction’ if she were to learn about the > trauma that Kashmiri Hindu Pandit women who had in any case stopped wearing > the ‘bindi’ for the fear of backlash were subjected to when even more > dreadful slogans like ‘we want Pakistan, along with the Hindu Pandit women & > without the Pandit men folk’ blurted from the loudspeakers of holy mosques > in Kashmir. I wish some one would have told her how Kashmiri Pandit women > were raped & then cut on the saw machines. I wish some one would have told > her how BK Ganjoo was riddled with automatic gun fire right in front of his > wife,  inside a rice drum wherein  he had concealed himself (in the attic of > his house) & how the jihadists told her to live on to cry for her dead > husband when she begged to be killed too along with her two daughters……..I > don’t know if this lady sympathiser of separatists would have waited for a > ‘curfew pass’ from the Governor to flee for her safety had she been amidst > the mayhem in Kashmir then. > > > > Nit picking on Governor’s role can go on. We used to have a tradition in > Kashmir that meat shops did not generally open on Tuesdays. But > radicalisation took a heavy toll on Kashmiriyat & there was an even attempt > to slaughter a cow on Ashtami in Anantnag when the seeds of indoctrination > were being sown across Kashmir. > > > > Your argument that since elections were ‘rigged’, hence Kashmiri Pandits > were targeted suggesting that Kashmiri Pandits deserved to be targeted > sounds preposterous. I have no reason to doubt your understanding of events > but if this is the impression that you have gathered from your ‘friends’ in > Kashmir, it only strengthens the point that Kashmir Hindus fell prey to a > diabolic plan to cleanse the valley of Hindu Pandits. It reminds of the hate > campaign against the Jews before holocaust. > > > > Your seemingly  ‘benign’ act of  throwing  a paper ball towards  the > parliament of India ( as per your account) in the presence of the parliament > attack  accused ,(now  out only on technical grounds) & those who in any > case do not believe in democracy certainly amounts to undermining  of > democracy. > > > > Why should you be so concerned d about the names being given to the > patriarch of ‘azadi- bara- e -Islam who has the audacity to justify > martyrdom of common Kashmiris quoting holy verses; who instigates in the > name of religion, children of others (not his own, yes) to die for a cause > that they don’t understand; who patronises antichrists who are not only > religious bigots but racists too… “Kala kuta…. thu thu”…. “Gai tumhari mata > hai, hum usko khata hai”……. are some of the racist slogans in vogue to > provoke the security personnel. By the way many Kashmiri > >  Muslims fed up with the ‘azadi’ seekers back home prefer to call him > ‘budae’ with no reverence, of course. > > Rgds > > LA > > >> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:23:58 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic >> roots >> >> Thanks dear Lalit >> >> i repeat: >> about KP migration >> Why Govt of India failed to notice that KP are under attack. from >> reliable sources i am saying it that the idea of KP to be pushed out >> of valley was discussed by pro-pak militants in early 88-89, and was >> duly conveyed to intelligence in Delhi. They never acted, which makes >> them a party to their agenda of KP migration. May be Govt of India >> thought that migration of KP is in the interest of India. i dont whom, >> or what... you can not convince me at this point....why it was >> allowed to happen.. Jagmohan who is a known RSS man in Delhi was >> appointed to ensure that... i dont know why he was there in the first >> place.... imposing ban on killing goats on ashtamis i Kashmir was >> something which makes me laugh, but he is not stupid, may be he was >> briefed to issue an order like that... >> >> about Govt role >> KP migration also happened because there was open rigging by >> NC-Congress in pre 90 elections? it was fraud committed by Rajiv >> Gandhi and Farooq Abdullah. I dont know in which sense they are >> friends of India. and why they denied a chance to MUF to rule the >> state is beyond my comprehension., if you are ready to forgive them, >> you can do..but there are many who are not read for that gift to >> them... since they are robbers, with clean hands.. >> >> about my action at Jantar Mantar: >> you will not believe, how ugly it was to see the KP brothers saying >> Geelani Hoon hai hai. etc.......in opposition to the protest organized >> by Kalpana Tickoo. >> My little action on the other hand was not to boost the stone pelting, >> but actually transformed the stone into paper, which was creative, >> which was about pushing non-violent forms of protest in the valley, >> unlike saying Geelini Hoon, which is nothing but provoking the stone >> pelters to pick up the Gun. May be you see it differently, i have >> very little to say about RSS minded politics of RIK. Do you think >> that recent killings in Kashmir were avoidable? do you blame UA for >> his role in shopian and then these killings..i see he is most hated >> man in the valley right now.... and he must have resigned... but Rahul >> Baba has given him the green signal.... so we have a situation similar >> to 1989... History repeats, first as tragedy then as farce..., but >> remember farce is more tragic than ....- >> >> about exodus >> >> KP have given the impression that they are quite happy outside >> Kashmir, and so what is the fuss.... you dont want any cultural >> restoration in valley, and you dismiss the entire valley as >> pro-pakistani pro geelani and anti -KP minded, then it is hopeless to >> think about return... how can you you live in a society which is >> against your very presence, so what is this noise of dream to return. >> ( idea of Panun Kashmir suits Indian agenda is not in any way serving >> the basic interest of KPs ) the best thing for KP was to discover >> right links in the valley, there are thousands who love us there, who >> love temples, who love our festivals, but KPs are only interested in >> politics which is unfortunately not functional. Govt of India does not >> need you, Home minister needs the smile of Geelani sahib, not yours, >> Your bond with nation is well recognized...so >> >> abut my waste of time: yes i dont have any material gain from writing >> all this, i want some saner sound to see the reason... sentimentality >> is not serving any good to KP community. >> but it is your choice.... Govt of India has certainly different >> priorities, you can criticize them, but will they listen to you... to >> dismiss the entire valley against music, poetry, art, theatre is quite >> not right.... i go there, and the fact is there is a deeper urge to >> start all over again...and it is here KP can join the idea...but..... >> >> well, i think you are quite involved with the political thinking of >> Kashmir >> but i feel we should give space to some music ( creativity ) to speak also >> >> what do you think >> >> love >> is >> >> .. >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Lalit Ambardar >> wrote: >> > Dear Inder, >> > >> > >> > >> >  I am glad that you unlike many others on this forum who continue to >> > wear >> > wool over their eyes & refuse to acknowledge that the Kashmiri >> > secessionist >> > movement is indeed pan Islamism driven & that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits >> > were >> > indeed subjected to a systematic ethnic cleansing in the valley, have at >> > least dared to respond to the ‘post’ even if not in outright agreement. >> > >> > >> > >> > It is appreciable that you at least admit that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits >> > ‘had >> > to leave’ because there was a ‘genuine threat’ to their ‘life’ & >> > ‘dignity’ >> > in the wake of the killing of ‘many innocent’ Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. >> > Just >> > to add to that, it wasn’t mere ‘killings’ but the brutality with which >> > the >> > killings were executed as per a systematically worked out diabolic plan >> > to >> > unleash ethnic cleansing in Kashmir that forced the hapless community to >> > abandon their homes & hearths. This ‘Jagmohan’ factor used by the >> > separatists & their propagandists/sympathisers alike to hide their shame >> > only belittles your concern which I would want to believe is genuine. >> > >> > >> > >> > First thing first- I think it is utterly outrageous to even insinuate >> > that >> > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are ‘fond’ of speaking about their exodus >> > whenever >> > there is an opportunity. You would agree that as the first victims of >> > jihadi >> > terror since its advent on Indian soil, Kashmiri Pandits can not be >> > deprived >> > of their basic right  to ‘speak’ about their brutal  ‘exodus’ however >> > uncomforting it may sound to the self acclaimed secular liberals. >> > >> >  Dear, why should you mind even that? After all, you did not mind giving >> > that self-glorified performance to boost the moral of the Kashmiri >> > Muslim >> > ‘stone pelters’ & their sympathisers who had the audacity to rant >> > ‘azadi’/’ >> > ‘nizame Mustafa’ slogans in Kashmir at Jantar Mantra recently. It is >> > unfair >> > on your part to be constantly critical of Kashmiri Pandits rendered >> > refugees >> > in their own country. >> > >> > >> > >> > As for your comments on the other members on this forum, I am sure they >> > would respond to you appropriately. But personally, I would prefer to >> > avoid >> > any discussion on the statements, even if  provocative in nature, by the >> > members of the minorities who chose to stay back for what ever reasons & >> > I >> > would request not to rake up the issue lest you jeopardise their >> > security. >> > >> > >> > >> > Please do not forget that there is a standing fatwa from the patriarch >> > of >> > ‘azadi- bara- e- Islam’ on Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that they can only >> > return >> > if they are ready to join ‘their’ freedom ‘struggle’. The honourable >> > parliamentarians’ visit to his home might suggest the helplessness of >> > Indian >> > democracy but I will be more concerned about what these parliamentarians >> > speak about the visit on their return. I do concede that the sagging >> > status >> > of the Moolvi moonlighting as a separatist leader as well as the former >> > terror commander who unabashedly continues to take credit for having >> > founded >> > the ‘gun culture’ in the valley will get a boost & so the war for the >> > post >> > of Emir of Kashmir will only intensify & the agony of Kashmiris only >> > gets >> > prolonged. >> > >> > >> > >> > I can only say that but for the blunders committed by the successive >> > Govts. >> > Kashmir would not have been an issue at all. It is the continued >> > appeasement >> > & the policy to promote dynasties that has prevented integration of >> > Kashmir >> > with the main stream India. The role played by the so called civil >> > society >> > is even worse –its continued pampering of the secessionists has only >> > >> > facilitated the growth of rabid pan -Islamic mindset in the valley. >> > Today, >> > ordinary Kashmiri Muslims are being held hostage by none other than >> > their >> > own who are out there in the streets creating mayhem at the behest of >> > proponents of Azadi- bara- e- Islam. >> > >> > >> > >> > Yes, you are right, Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are facing crisis. It is not >> > so >> > simple to be living with the ignominy of being refugees in your own >> > country. >> > You may prefer to ignore it but Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are perusing a >> > political agenda to return to the valley of their ancestors where their >> > safety & dignity are guaranteed under one Indian secular constitution >> > only. >> > ‘Two flags’ & ‘two constitutions’ have failed to stop persecution of >> > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that began with the arrival of militant Islam in >> > the >> > medieval times in Kashmir. >> > >> > >> > >> > You may have your own reasons to be infatuated with the Kashmiri >> > pan-Islamists who want to resurrect medievalism in Kashmir. Just because >> > you >> > think you can’t fight ‘them’ does not imply that you should be joining >> > them. >> > I would like to make it clear that my love for India & the >> > >> > tri- colour is unconditional. I am proud of my Hindu identity & it in no >> > way >> > prevents me from regarding all other religious communities as equal >> > stakeholders in this country. >> > >> > >> > >> >  I fail to understand your confidence in your belief that Kashmiri >> > language, >> > heritage, music, poetry are well preserved in the hands of those who >> > consider heritage (other than Islamic), music &  even poetry against the >> > religion that is sought to be ‘the law’ in Kashmir. I am sure you are >> > aware >> > of the historical distortions that are being invented by the vested >> > interests in Kashmir today. >> > >> > >> > >> > I do not agree with your contention that the present conflict is between >> > the >> > Govt. of India & the ‘people of Kashmir’. No, please do not >> > ‘generalise’. >> > Most Kashmiris would find it offensive to be associated with >> > obscurantisms. >> > You would be wasting your time & energy in propagating the separatist >> > propaganda in seeking the Kashmiri Pandits’ return to connect with the >> > ‘Kashmiri Muslims’. Please correct your perceptions. I have genuine >> > grievances against Kashmiri Muslims in general for they failed to >> > protect a >> > miniscule minority in their neighbourhoods, but there is no hatred as >> > such. >> > I have said it earlier if at all the so called Kashmiriyat exists today >> > it >> > is in the hearts of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits far awy from Kashmir in >> > refugee >> > camps & outside. And I also believe, that status quo will not be >> > everlasting >> > in Kashmir. The process of death & destruction initiated by the ‘sons of >> > the >> > soil’ themselves in the name of religion driven separatism will >> > eventually >> > singe the valley (the sparks are beginning to be seen even now) & that >> > is >> > when the hitherto silent because of  fear & religious blackmail, >> > Kashmiri >> > Muslim masses will be out in the streets to chase the separatists to POK >> > where they actually deserve to be, in the lap of their Pakistani >> > masters. >> > Don’t forget, Kashmiris have done it earlier, when they spurned the two >> > nation theory author-Mr. Jinnah’s moves to seduce them. >> > >> > Rgds >> > >> > LA >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> >> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:08:27 +0530 >> >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan >> >> Islamic >> >> roots >> >> >> >> Dear Lalit >> >> I have written it earlier also >> >> but i repeat, not for you also but many KP brothers who are fond of >> >> speaking about exodus as and when there is any opportunity. >> >> >> >> well, recently i met a KP friend who was quite upset with Aditya Raj >> >> Kaul who remained mum during a TV discussion ( some Times channel ) on >> >> exodus of KPs from valley in 90. It was some Sikh representative, >> >> Mr.Jagat Singh ( perhaps ) who said that KPs left the valley on their >> >> own. which was music to Bilal Lone, the other conversant in the room. >> >> May be Mr. Aditya Raj Koul ji can clarify it in detail. The discussion >> >> was about the recent threat to Sikh community by some elements who >> >> wanted them leave the valley. I see little TV myself...so dont know >> >> the exact thing... >> >> >> >> On the other hand, i maintain the fact that KPs had to leave the >> >> valley in 1990 because there was a genuine threat to life and dignity, >> >> given the fact that many innocent KPs were killed. Jagmohan indeed >> >> provided curfew relaxation to those who wanted to leave, but he is not >> >> the core player of KP exodus. However, the contradiction remain that >> >> GOI was knowing it all from word go, and remained silent spectators to >> >> worsening situation... it is still mystery to me... ( in other words i >> >> see GOI as a direct cause of KP exodus, not only historically but in >> >> 1990 as well ) >> >> >> >> It is the same Aditya who said Geelani hoon hia hia, atJantar Mantar >> >> recently, ( Down with Geelaii dog ) which i found utterly >> >> unparliamentary since i have never heard SAS Geelani saying such >> >> things openly to KPs ( this i am saying after i have deep problems >> >> with his only religious political card for Kashmir conflict ) It is >> >> the same SAS Geelani who is refusing indian Home Minister to meet. I >> >> wrote earlier also that Chidambaram would go to Kashmir and knock his >> >> door for a meeting for peace...Where does RIK people stand, >> >> politically... >> >> >> >> But Geelani sahib is not the only one who represents Kashmir conflict >> >> at the core. there are others, and there are people in general who >> >> represent themselves now... see how SAS Geelani's call for hartal was >> >> rejected recently..... it is not easy for GOI to cut a deal with >> >> Huriyat even... so where do KPs hard core anti KM politics stand.... >> >> >> >> Well, KPs right now facing cultural identity crises at the moment... >> >> They are rapidly realizing that there will no Kashmiiri seapking boy >> >> or girl after one or two decades down the line. If there will be >> >> anybody able to recite Lad Ded or Krishan joo razdan, it will be KM >> >> from valley... >> >> >> >> so what use to unfurl Tricolour in front of people protesting about >> >> the recent killings at Jantar Mantar. >> >> The best thing KPs can do is to reconnect themselves with KM's in the >> >> valley and restore cultural links... the situation is quite different >> >> from 1990, things can change if KP love their language, heritage, >> >> music, poetry... sorry not this Nationalism.. which is of no use in >> >> deeper sense.... believe me... >> >> >> >> that is the only real thing i feel, if KP begin with anything >> >> positive..... >> >> that way they can dream to return back, even... >> >> >> >> seemingly the conflict is between Govt of India and the people of >> >> kashmir, so KP ought to give time to the most vital thing... the real >> >> kashmir is also about its ancient echos, not Hindu religous identity >> >> alone... that too will be political.. but we need guts >> >> >> >> >> >> I know you will point out the fact that KPs too are kashmirs. >> >> but i want to know how, not only in the present, but after2 or three >> >> decades... >> >> >> >> with love >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Lalit Ambardar >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > My apologies.There is a minor correction in the subject line ,hence >> >> > this >> >> > repeated mail. >> >> > >> >> > Rgds all >> >> > >> >> > LA >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------------ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands >> >> > of >> >> > Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to admit >> >> >  'pan >> >> > Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going Kashmiri >> >> > scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on >> >> > Kashmir >> >> > takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by >> >> > 'positions'.Here >> >> > is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >  Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times >> >> > >> >> > New Delhi, September 18, 2010 >> >> >                                               Our secularism will >> >> > withstand any opposition >> >> > I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting >> >> > frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described >> >> > again >> >> > and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. >> >> > By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the >> >> > accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri >> >> > elections >> >> > were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, the >> >> > army >> >> > subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. >> >> > Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about >> >> > Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is >> >> > determined to >> >> > hang on by force to Kashmir. >> >> > Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has >> >> > begun >> >> > to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes an >> >> > India >> >> > that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know we >> >> > do not >> >> > hold. >> >> > In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not >> >> > guided >> >> > by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the overwhelming >> >> > emotion >> >> > when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of bewilderment. >> >> > The >> >> > vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and >> >> > the >> >> > demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? >> >> > And >> >> > what is it that they actually want? >> >> > There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We >> >> > recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military >> >> > presence in >> >> > a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where >> >> > curfew >> >> > is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by the >> >> > stories >> >> > of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. >> >> > But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a >> >> > response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till >> >> > 1989, >> >> > Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went >> >> > in only >> >> > after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, >> >> > after >> >> > kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis thronged >> >> > to >> >> > Kashmir from across the border. >> >> > Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, the >> >> > State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is >> >> > obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule >> >> > of law. >> >> > Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. >> >> > Indian >> >> > soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. >> >> > But each >> >> > time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the Armed >> >> > Forces >> >> > Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to increase. >> >> > There >> >> > is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be >> >> > greeted by >> >> > a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. >> >> > Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state >> >> > violence >> >> > in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say >> >> > that >> >> > they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army >> >> > presence is >> >> > unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. >> >> > From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is >> >> > bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average >> >> > Kashmiri has >> >> > the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian >> >> > State >> >> > spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is >> >> > vastly >> >> > greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average >> >> > Bihari. >> >> > Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. >> >> > Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has >> >> > not been >> >> > true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party >> >> > (PDP)-government was >> >> > legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference >> >> > regime. >> >> > Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that >> >> > Indians who >> >> > reside in other parts of the country do not have. >> >> > We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, >> >> > there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. >> >> > Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of >> >> > India — >> >> > Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have managed >> >> > to >> >> > fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist >> >> > sentiment. But >> >> > what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this >> >> > generation of >> >> > Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession? >> >> > More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris want. >> >> > Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled >> >> > Pakistan? Who >> >> > wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of >> >> > national >> >> > collapse? >> >> > Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi >> >> > minorities >> >> > well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a >> >> > genocide. The >> >> > Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a shining >> >> > advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. >> >> > Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and >> >> > Pakistan. >> >> > But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, >> >> > with no >> >> > industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies >> >> > from India >> >> > or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run >> >> > according to >> >> > strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven >> >> > to the >> >> > world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that >> >> > America or >> >> > any great power would support the creation of such a state. >> >> > So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and >> >> > pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer >> >> > but we >> >> > suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular >> >> > India, >> >> > religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. >> >> > We find >> >> > the notion of a state founded only on religious identity >> >> > old-fashioned and >> >> > bizarre. >> >> > But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything >> >> > else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from >> >> > the >> >> > Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim >> >> > (after the >> >> > ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many >> >> > takers. >> >> > This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri >> >> > separatists >> >> > apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel >> >> > no >> >> > kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. >> >> > But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it >> >> > poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are now >> >> > so fed >> >> > up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our >> >> > fears for >> >> > the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this >> >> > would not >> >> > be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession >> >> > would >> >> > mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. >> >> > Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire >> >> > to >> >> > protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the >> >> > world that >> >> > India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack >> >> > Kashmiri >> >> > Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that >> >> > the >> >> > Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism >> >> > survived >> >> > that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may >> >> > misrepresent >> >> > our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph again. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aliens at dataone.in Fri Sep 24 09:58:29 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 09:58:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' In-Reply-To: References: <000f01cb5b3c$aac51840$004f48c0$@in> Message-ID: <001a01cb5ba0$f11596d0$d340c470$@in> Dear Inder, Your statement, "Kashmiri struggle should have a unique indigenous voice, and I don’t think they need to be dependent upon moral and political and material support from Pakistan." Can you explain what you want to tell with this? "The question why AZADI? Needs a sincere discourse to disseminate the idea of new free Kashmir." >From your writing I think even you could not find the answer why Azadi? Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:11 AM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' Dear Gowhar thanks the most magical thing would have been a non-violent struggle in 1990 itself. alas... but i guess, we have a long history of getting things done through the barrel of gun, earlier it was sword. What the violence has achieved so far: affluent class from Kashmir are constantly thinking to have an alternative space outside Kashmir, in Delhi or in Jammu even, leaving behind the rural poor masses to face the music. People in Kashmir need to restore the confidence of the its own intellectual class, who inwardly yearn for a more democratic voice. The more violence is there the more people will think about material security, the more it can corrupt the mind... which is actually happening... it is besides the point that why security forces are trigger happy in the valley . ( for a while i am holding back the profound nature of what VIOLENCE actually means to us... ) The trouble is that we are never in a position to restore the things lost, exactly as we once experienced... Things change at a very rapid pace every time, every day, every year..and when at thisjuncture we have a violent protest minus gun, it should be an opportunity to all the stake holders to start something fresh. Taking about kashmir about Indian and anti indian position would actually limit its scope to open up spaces for other voices to join. Kashmiri stuggle should have a unique indigenous voice, and i dont think they need to be dependent upon moral and political and material support from Pakistan . Kashmris perhaps need to shun the Gun culture once for all, and think creatively about the Kashmir issue, rather something which is based on long term strategy. The question why AZADI ? needs a sincere discourse to disseminate the idea of new free Kashmir. What is pressing for most of the educated youth that whether they should listen to people like Dr. ZAkir Naik or about what suits them actually. Riding on the shoulders of faith will be again a temporary repreive, since people finally dont need a straight jacketed belief system to carry on their routine, I am not too optimistic here, but still, i love the kashmiri way of life, which is its own... not like Iraqi, or Punjabi, Sindhi etc... so, to weave the Kashmir discourse with the Kashmir culture will perhaps salvage the psyche of Kashmiri youth who are really hurt by the violence unleashed by all agencies... Kashmir discourse is beyond vengeance of recent innocent killings, even. . shall keep on thinking myself..... love is On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Inder, > > I appreciate your attitude towards Pandits and so many are their like you in Kashmir but could not dare to come out fearing of militants or separatists. If everyone thinks like that in Kashmir there want be any problem and Kashmir will be on the right track. Thanks accepting about the beginning of Pak sponsored gun culture for which you give reason rigging of election. However, the tense situation initiated by Pak will be there even if election rigging was not there. So at one place it is proved that Pak with the help of few local Kashmiri played key role to push out Kashmiri Pandit from valley. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:25 AM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' > > Thanks dear Shuddha for this wonderful forward > > Lot of people on the list have this impression that all the Muslims in > the valley think that Pandits left the valley on their own, or > Jagmohan convinced them so..... > > But that is not the fact. Majority of Muslims in valley miss Pandits, > and want their return to kashmir. Both the communities love each > others simplicity and want to restore that co-existence in the valley. > > It was in 1986 that congress J&K Chief Mufi Mohd Syed thought to > outwit the NC-Congress alliance by instigating communal riots. The > subsequent rigging of elections ensured the beginning of Pakistan > sponsored Gun culture, which automatically pushed out Pandits from > Valley. Qazi Nissar was MUF canditate ( killed by militants later ) > who never said a word against Pandits in his lectures. > > When passion for Azadi was really at peak, that time even, neighbors > helped Pandits to move out safely. But now when lot of Muslims > brothers have suffered,( first by securities excess then by rogue > militans, then by both, and now by SOG and all that... ) sincerely > want Pandits back in their homes. That is my feeling... > > But the problem with Pandit leadership is that they have different > priorities: one of them is extreme love for Indian Nationalism, its > Tricolour etc, which is not a sin, but in Kashmir it complicates the > problems, since Kashmir is a conflict zone between differnt parties. > But the bonds between Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits is based > on shared cultural heritage, music food, simplicity and above all > language, and not because of some conflict. > > So, Pandit communty need to decide what is good for them . My humble > suggestion is that both the communities need more visibility through > multiple interactive cultural sessions .... > > I dont see any political role for Kashmiri Pandits to play in Kashmir > or outside. The number game is quite vital in any democratic form of > politics, as we know, and Kashmiri pandits are very few, that too > scattered all over the country. > > The interaction is already happening at a very personal level. There > are exchanges and friendly meetings even during this time. > > Both the communities are nostalgic about their past, one can only wish > a happy new beginning between the two.. > > with love > is > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar Geelani in today's Greater >> Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal responsibility'. And how he >> talks about the value of repeated entreaties. Hope it will be of interest >> to all. >> >> best >> >> Shuddha >> >> ----------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Come home, Come soon : On the hoped for return of Kashmiri Pandits to >> Kashmir >> >> Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September 2010 >> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp >> >> >> I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. Anita. As her name would >> suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my form-teacher at school. I >> remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha >> Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm today. I remember how Anita >> Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position in my class. I also >> remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the best of the lot! I remember >> everything. >> >> Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our Kashmir, full of sweet >> memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in the same school, playing >> together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, attending marriage >> functions, birthday parties, offering condolences when someone in the >> neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other and even engaging in >> smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. >> >> 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' >> Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in thin air. Peace didn't stay, >> it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful memories in 'Angels Public >> School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public School' and 'Shaheen Public >> School' in Srinagar soon started turning into nightmares. >> >> The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and >> Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my school were now being hit by >> stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets replaced the 'recess' and >> 'period' bells in my school. >> >> 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' >> Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything changed, dramatically. I >> remember everything. How Indian troopers humiliated my elderly people, day >> in and day out; how they slapped me after on their directions (read orders) >> I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit pasted on an electric pole in >> our locality; how they stared at me, abused, hurled choicest invectives and >> threatened me while walking on my streets for no fault of mine; how they >> made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows on an undeclared curfew >> day, when I and my other classmates were to appear in class 10th papers at >> Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all happened in early years of 1990's. >> The memories of their abuses and slaps haunt me, still. >> >> I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch and Kill', the firing >> incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, mine blasts, encounters, >> massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans for freedom from India, >> slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans against Pandit brethren. >> >> And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my Valley. That was a painful >> memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious Governor of the >> strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits. >> But, I will blame myself >> Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, not influential enough to >> be responsible for their migration or to prevent their exodus; but I still >> blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, as a proud Kashmiri >> nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, it may be my idealism. Yes, >> I know those were not ideal times. >> >> Who's responsible for this? >> Today, there are television debates on Indian media about 'Kashmiriyat'. >> Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've too many answers coming. >> Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some blame militants and >> pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others blame the unfortunate >> circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former Governor Mr. Jagmohan, >> others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir while few others maintain >> that what happened was unfortunate and should never have actually happened, >> but the migration could not have been avoided during those hard times. >> >> I've a different take on the issue. I believe that I'm responsible for the >> exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of Kashmir as a whole is >> responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also believe that Pandits too >> are responsible for their migration. For the simple reason that together we >> shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, exemplary friendships and >> harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, should have never allowed the >> circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, our history; and above all >> our great cultural bonds! But they did. >> >> Was it possible? >> Though in my previous articles I may have pointed fingers at the politics of >> Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of pro-freedom alliance >> Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani Lone, but here I must >> shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost his father, Mirwiaz Molvi >> Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone brothers lost their >> father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth death anniversary of Molvi >> Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone and Bilal Lone too had an >> option to leave Kashmir and get settled down abroad, far away from hell in >> Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face the challenges the >> circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to them! >> >> Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. During late 1990's my mother >> was seriously wounded when militants hurled a grenade towards a bunker of >> Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The grenade missed the intended >> target, as would quite often happen during those days, and thus like many >> other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted on my mother too. Her >> left foot was badly wounded and it took almost four years to heal, though >> not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. We too had the option. >> Because my father had his shawl business running successfully in Kolkata >> since almost three decades. >> >> Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' and avoided leaving >> Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. May be it wasn't possible. >> Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! >> >> 'Life hasn't been easy' >> Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after migration. It hasn't been easy >> for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in different parts of India. >> Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu Television in Hyderabad, India in >> 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories of migration. Sameer, his >> wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the scorching heat of Jammu while >> sitting in a temporary shed that consisted of only one-room. His stories >> were very moving and would often leave a pang in my heart. Like hundreds of >> other Pandit families, his family too had left Kashmir in early 1990's. A >> close Pandit friend of my father in Rainawari, Srinagar, too had to leave >> Kashmir alongwith his entire family. Their house was burnt down and reduced >> to ashes. This friend of my father also used to buy shawls from us. At the >> time of migration he owed us a lot of money, the cheque he had given to my >> father bounced. After apologizing he promised to repay every single penny in >> installments once he settled down in Kolkata. My father offered all possible >> help and said to the family that they need not to pay our money back, >> because we understood what they had gone through. But, as an honest >> businessman he kept his word, his promise; and repaid all due amount in >> smaller installments in the following years. That is Pandit pride! My >> father's friend kept the friendship going, his Pandit pride alive and with >> it the reputation of an honest trader too. >> >> 'Burden of unique expectations' >> Kashmir is a special place having its unique history. During our marriage >> ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way that is unique. It is >> unparalleled. No where else in the world invitation is extended or expected >> like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook and twitter; an information >> and technology age, particular members of a Kashmiri family- that has fixed >> marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to homes of their close >> relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an invitation. Then, some >> two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation card is sent; as the >> marriage date comes closer several telephonic calls are made, and then a >> final call too. At times, even this may not be enough and that is perhaps >> why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums during marriage >> ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking tactics! >> >> If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and attend the marriage >> ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of them do not come, no one is >> surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri >> Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It is the result of their >> great and unique tradition and history that they've such huge expectations >> from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not blaming or accusing each >> other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking attention and expecting a lot! >> >> To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If we left Kashmir, why >> didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two calls enough? Shouldn't you >> be doing more and calling us back and receiving us with open arms?" And >> Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when things were tough here, you >> shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? Shouldn't you've faced the >> challenges of the circumstances like we did? Shouldn't you have stayed and >> never gone? >> >> Both actually expect a lot from each other! There is no communal disharmony >> in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been challenging and the going has been >> hard and tough. The movement for freedom in Kashmir is not against Kashmiri >> Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian people, it is against the >> Indian state and its wicked state-craft. >> Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of them. Please come back. >> 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! >> >> (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in Bonn, Germany since 2006, >> where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of Germany] as an Editor. >> gowhargeelani at gmail.com) >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 10:03:12 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:03:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Second Exodus from Kashmir-now, it is Muslims(IANS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pervez , Two pints I would like to make 1. Muslim migrants , which already exist like hindus and sikhs already enjoy whatever reservations in educational institutions are there for migrants . The reservations are not specifically for any particular caste or religion . Please check the facts , there are many muslim migrants from Kashmir who claim these reservations and whatever few thousand Govt gives every month. 2. In case of Gujarat , in the recent Katthel elections , where the muslims are in majority , people elected BJP for their good governance. Hope this answers your pun. Regards Pawan Durani On 9/23/10, Shahnawaz Khan wrote: > How many thousand crores are needed now. > > > > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Parvaiz Bukhari > wrote: > >> so, should we expect the government to build hutmernts for Muslim migrants >> too? Gujarat perhaps would be a good place for them to go to. would there >> be another layer of reservations in professional colleges for Muslim >> migrants too? which side of the political spectrum in India will lap the >> new >> migrants up? >> >> Any comments? Anybody including Alok himself? >> >> On 23 September 2010 14:17, rashneek kher wrote: >> >> > Unlike Shuddha I have comments or claims to make >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://sify.com/news/second-exodus-from-kashmir-now-it-s-the-muslims-news-national-kjxj4cgfdah.html >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > Jammu: Reminiscent of the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the valley in >> the >> > early 1990s, Muslims caught this time between stone-throwers and >> > security >> > forces are moving from Srinagar to Jammu in the dark of the night. >> > >> > 'I didn't inform anyone in the neighbourhood where I was headed,' Abid >> > Ahmad, who left Srinagar and came here with his family a week ago, told >> > IANS >> > on the condition that his locality be not disclosed as it could spell >> > trouble whenever he returned. >> > >> > >> > Many like Ahmad are fleeing the strife-torn Kashmir Valley - where >> violent >> > protests and clashes have left over 100 dead in the past three months - >> to >> > escape the stones hurled by mobs and the retaliatory guns of security >> > forces. And they usually undertake their journey to Jammu, 294 km south, >> > between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. >> > >> > >> > 'It's the time when stone-throwers are resting and the policemen are >> > busy >> > warming themselves around bonfires on roadsides,' said Ahmad, who >> > started >> > his journey from Sringar along with his family at 3 a.m. >> > >> > >> > While Kashmir is a Muslim-majority area, Jammu is dominated by Hindus. >> > >> > >> > Over 100 families, according to unofficial estimates, might have reached >> > Jammu post-Eid (Sep 11), when mobs went on the rampage in Srinagar, >> burning >> > government offices after prayers. And the trend is continuing. >> > >> > >> > Because of this, Jammu, the state's winter capital, is witnessing quite >> > a >> > buzz in its hotels, resthouses and rented accommodations much ahead of >> the >> > bi-annual shift in the seat of the government. >> > >> > >> > Said Ramprakash Sharma, a property dealer: 'In the past week, I've >> arranged >> > rented accommodation for 15 Kashmiri families. This number is unusually >> > high...Earlier Kashmiris used to come for winter months only.' >> > >> > >> > The valley has been seeing an unending cycle of violence since June 11, >> > where hurling of stones shows the anger of youth, and the police react >> with >> > bullets. >> > >> > >> > Apart from claiming the lives of over 100 civilians, the violence has >> left >> > a >> > large number wounded. Life there has come to a standstill, with shops, >> > schools, banks and other institutions closed due to separatist-sponsored >> > shutdowns and the curfew imposed by authorities in an attempt to >> > maintain >> > calm. >> > >> > >> > *Sharing their miseries, the migrants tell their Kashmiri Hindu friends, >> > who >> > had migrated to Jammu 20 years ago: 'Now we know why the Pandits fled >> > and >> > that too in the darkness of night.' * >> > >> > >> > Over 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits living in the valley migrated when >> > violence >> > erupted there in 1990. Most of them came to Jammu and were housed by the >> > government in various camps on the edges of the city. They had to >> initially >> > live in tents until the authorities built one-room tenements for them. >> > >> > >> > The recent migrants from the valley curse everyone responsible for >> turning >> > their lives into a nightmare -- the stone-throwers, separatists, >> policemen >> > and the 'non-existing' government. >> > >> > >> > 'I had to face stone-throwers almost every day...they would physically >> > assault me. And the policemen would threaten me for driving during >> curfew,' >> > said Mohammad Sultan, a driver with a government department who has >> shifted >> > his family here. >> > >> > >> > But he will return to the valley for his job. >> > >> > >> > 'They all are looking after their (own) interests...not knowing the pain >> of >> > the common people,' Sultan rued. >> > >> > >> > But it's not that easy in Jammu either. Here they face many questions -- >> > hotels ask for identity cards, and policemen visit them to verify all >> sorts >> > of details. And they are scared of disclosing too much to the police, >> > fearing some might give out their details to the stone throwers back >> home. >> > >> > >> > Asked if the government was doing anything, a young girl said: 'Which >> > government are you talking about? (Hardline separatist leader) Syed Ali >> > Geelani runs the government of stone-throwers, who stone people...and >> > the >> > Omar Adullah government is non-existent.' >> > >> > >> > The girl, now showing signs of depression, narrated how her car was >> stoned >> > and the policemen fled the scene in a locality in downtown Srinagar. >> > >> > >> > A 39-member all-party delegation led by union Home Minister P. >> Chidambaram >> > visited Jammu and Kashmir for two days to get a sense of the ground >> > situation before deciding on steps to defuse tensions. >> > >> > >> > But its visit also caused problems for people here Tuesday. 'We were >> > checked >> > at every place and asked not to venture out because the delegation was >> > here,' said a harassed Kashmir University professor who arrived here >> > Monday. >> > >> > >> > >> > Most of those from the valley say they are just waiting to undertake the >> > journey back home in daylight -- when stone-throwers retreat and curfew >> is >> > lifted. >> > >> > Best Regards >> > >> > -- >> > Rashneek Kher >> > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >> > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kaksanjay at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 10:17:31 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:17:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] K K Mahajan, Cinematographer Extraordinary passes away Message-ID: Sharing a warm tribute to KK: and a salam to his memory. Best Sanjay ------------------------------- Enduring image PARTHA CHATTERJEE http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2415/stories/20070810509308700.htm EVERY generation in cinema produces a cinematographer who helps a director express his vision with verve and precision. In post-Independence India, Subrata Mitra teamed up with Satyajit Ray and, from Pather Panchali (1952-55) to a d ecade on, helped create a body of work that continues to be called significant. In the next generation, there was K.K. Mahajan, who made a signal, lifelong contribution to the cinematic articulation of Kumar Shahani’s creations and certainly the first two of Mani Kaul’s films, not to forget the films of Mrinal Sen and the early ones of Basu Chatterjee. K.K., as he was affectionately called by friends and acquaintances, happened to be one of the first “schooled” cameramen in India, a product of the Film and Television Institute of India (FTII), Pune, which is located on the premises of the erstwhile Prabhat Studios. Modelled on the Institut des Hautes Etudes Cinematographique (IDHEC) in Paris, this was the first properly equipped film school in India, and it has a film archive (The National Film Archive) that is the envy of many. Mahajan, no doubt, benefited immensely from watching world classics and was continuously and subconsciously influenced by the black-and-white work of Italian masters such as Otello Martelli, G.R. Aldo and even Gianni de Venanza. He had seen Raul Coutard’s work in the pioneering black-and-white and colour films directed by Jean Duc Godard, one of the creators of the French Nouvelle Vague (New Wave), and was as impressed by them as he was by the black-and-white photography of b oth Gunnar Fischer and Sven Nykvst in Ingmar Bergman’s Swedish films. At home, only the work of Subrata Mitra caught his imagination. All these people worked with basic equipment, which they used with tremendous inventiveness. The beautifully photographed Kasba (directed by Kumar Shahani) was done with an Arriflex 2C camera. Many directors have shot in Himachal Pradesh and have come back with glamorous views of the mountains and the surrounding environs. But K.K. managed to help Kumar Shahani invest the scenes with poetry, capturing the yearnings of the characters, which were not always positive. He first worked with Kumar Shahani as a student on the latter’s diploma film at the FTII, called The Glass Pane (1965), which was about a couple returning home from a funeral. Both Kumar Shahani and K.K. were singled out for p raise for their respective work. Thus, a partnership was formed, and it endured over 40 years, surviving well-nigh-insurmountable obstacles. When asked a day after K.K.’s passing away whether he and K.K. “sang” as one voice, Kumar Shahani declared emotionally: “Oh, absolutely.” Soon after Char Adhyay (1998), K.K.’s once robust body, which had survived a relentless assault of alcohol and cigarettes from his student days, began to send out danger signals. His fuse grew shorter and his frequent outburst s on the set unnerved even his assistants. But they stuck to him loyally because of his innate goodness and generosity and desire to excel. He never made unreasonable demands on the producer for expensive gizmos. He, like his hero Sven Nykvst, did wonders with well-maintained basic equipment. In 1972, the Film Finance Corporation, now the National Film Development Corporation (NFDC), held a festival of the films it had produced, at Regal Cinema in Delhi’s Connaught Place. The majority of the viewers, brought up on a diet of commercial Hindi cinema, were bewildered by what they saw. But they were unanimous in their praise of the photography in Kumar Shahani’s Maya Darpan, where colour was used with great sophistication, and Mani Kaul’s Uski Roti and Ashadh Ka Ek Din and Basu Chatterjee’s Sara Akash, three films with exemplary black-and-white cinematography. Gifted cinematographer Thanks to the NFDC, Mrinal Sen was able to make a comeback in 1969 with a low-budget black-and-white film, Bhuvan Shome, shot in Saurashtra. Utpal Dutt, as a stern senior Railway bureaucrat out on a bird-shoot, and Suhasini Mulay, a s the teenage wife of a ticket collector he had just suspended, charmed the audience. But it was K.K.’s camera that brought spontaneity and a sparkle to a slight tale, and without it no amount of thespian skill could have saved the film. Mrinal Sen, recognising his young cinematographer’s gifts, retained him for his next 18 films. Similarly, Basu Chatterjee, the cartoonist-turned-film-maker, after the success of Sara Aakash, worked with K.K. on his subsequent box office su ccesses in colour such as Piya Ka Ghar, Rajnigandha and Choti Si Baat. Always outspoken, K.K. riled at Chatterjee’s lack of visual inventiveness, remarking: “Basu Chatterjee is simply paralysed without the zoom lens.” However, one must remember K.K.’s visual contribution, simple yet eloquent, to the picturisation of the song “Kaee Baar Yun Hi Dekha Hai” sung by Mukesh for Rajnigandha. Few cameramen in India or abroad used the awkward cinemascope screen format in conjunction with colour as K.K. did in Kumar Shahani’s Tarang. It was a film of great perception and subtlety, about a Mahabharata-like power strug gle in a modern industrialist family; its articulation was certainly enhanced by K.K.’s superb, unobtrusive camerawork. Years later in Khayal Gatha, Kumar Shahani’s controversial response to Hindustani music, particularly that of the Gwalior Gharana, the photography once again rose to the occasion. Memorable is a shot of a passing cloud casting its shadow on a stretch of undulating sand. Earlier on in his career, K.K. had to work in commercial Hindi films to keep the pot boiling. Subhash Ghai, Ramesh Sippy and Ramesh Talwar were some of the other directors he worked with. He was unhappy about Hindi cinema’s lack of aesthetics: “…They want everything nice and bright.” He could not understand the pursuit of mindless glamour in the hope of attracting large audiences. He gradually distanced himself from the purveyors of bathos and song and dance although he did Buniyaad for Doordarshan in video (high-band), directed by Ramesh Sippy. K.K.’s camera managed to invest the drama of loss in the aftermath of Partition with dignity. Buniyaad remains the most popular and, perhap s, the best made serial on Indian television. K.K.’s last years were difficult. He sold his flat in Saat Bangla in Versova, Mumbai, to move farther afield to Goregaon East. He was diagnosed with throat cancer and his voice-box was removed. He went on to shoot a video, As The Crow Flies, in 2005 for his favourite director, Kumar Shahani. The shooting lasted a day, and the documentary was about the mounting of an exhibition of the painter Akbar Padamsee’s latest work. Despite the paucity of means, the quiet elegance of K.K.’s camerawork was noticed, as was Kumar Shahani’s taut, sharp and cerebral direction. The cancer suddenly resurfaced and spread rapidly in the last few months of his life. Death came on July 13. Cinematographers, despite the patrician appellation, are taken for granted in cinema, certainly in Indian cinema, and yet, without them there would be no film to watch. What would Guru Dutt have been without V.K. Murthy, Adoor Gopalakrishnan without Mankada Ravi Varma, now mortally ill and unable to speak, and Satyajit Ray without Subrata Mitra? What we remember about a film in the end are its images. But do we ever bother to remember the person who created them? Mahajan was one of the very few creators of enduring images in Indian cinema and he will be missed. From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 18:10:27 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 18:10:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CWG Expenditure Report Message-ID: Found this in another mailing list. __________________________________________________________ Main findings from the report `Whose wealth? Whose commons?' published by the Housing and Land Rights Network in May 2010. http://www.hic-net.org/document.php?pid=3487 Main Findings 1. India’s Bid for the 2010 Games: Bidding for Glory? Bidding for Shame? n India’s decision to bid for the Commonwealth Games 2010 was neither transparent nor democratic. It was not discussed in Parliament; neither was there any public debate, consultation or opinion poll among the residents of Delhi. n The Comptroller and Auditor General of India in a 2009 report observed that India’s decision to bid was approved by the Cabinet ex-post facto in September 2003. n Indian officials made a last-minute offer of US $7.2 million (Rs. 32.4 crore) during the bidding process, which allegedly clinched the deal in India’s favour. This was an offer to train athletes of all member countries of the Commonwealth (US $100,000 to each of the 72 members). The Commonwealth Games Federation (CGF) reportedly agreed to review its rules following this monetary buy out. n India’s bid also included an offer of a travel grant of US $10.5 million (Rs. 48 crore) for an estimated number of 5,200 athletes and 1,800 officials. According to the Evaluation Commission of the Commonwealth Games, this was more than the minimum CGF requirement for travel. n Other gratis offers made by India include: luxury accommodation for the “CGF family” in Delhi; chauffeur driven luxury cars for the duration of the Games; and a free trip to the Taj Mahal. n The entire bidding process cost India around Rs. 89 crore. With the travel grant, the total amounts to Rs. 137 crore. This does not include the cost of free sightseeing trips, luxury transport, and other offers. n The Games Village, being built by Emaar MGF, is expected to cost US $230.7 million (Rs. 1,038 crore). The Delhi Development Authority (DDA) offered a Rs. 700 crore bailout in May 2009 to the company to meet the costs of construction. This is probably the first ever government bailout for a private realty company in India. n A decision to underwrite costs and budget shortfall of the Games was taken, despite the fact that the Ministry of Finance, Department of Expenditure, Government of India, cautioned against it in 2003. The Promise of the 2010 Games: True Claims? False Hopes? n The organisers of the 2010 Commonwealth Games have claimed several benefits for Delhi, all of which are questionable. n The entire proposed expenditure for sports infrastructure, as initially submitted by the Indian Olympic Association in its Bid Document, was Rs. 150 crore. Already, an expenditure of at least Rs. 3,390 crore has been incurred on stadiums, most of which are likely to remain unused after the Games, as experience from the 1982 Asian Games has shown. The increase in expenditure on stadiums is already 2,160% of the initial projected budget. n The total expenditure on infrastructure for the CWG is still unknown. In March 2006, Delhi Finance Minister declared that the amount spent on infrastructure development by different agencies in the run-up to the CWG, was Rs. 26,808 crore. In March 2010, Chief Secretary, Government of Delhi, stated that the total amount spent on infrastructure in Delhi in the last three years was Rs. 13,350 crore. n The much publicised infrastructure development in Delhi has, however, been hurried, expensive, poorly planned, environmentally unsound, exploitative of workers, slum dwellers and “beggars,” and in violation of norms and planning processes, including the Master Plan for Delhi 2021. While the total budget for “beautification” projects in Delhi is undisclosed, the amount already spent by the government is hundreds of crores. The streetscaping of just one street, Lodi Road, is estimated to cost Rs. 18.55 crore. n Authoritative international research studies have proven that hosting mega sports events is not an effective way of achieving a sustained increase in participation in sports, as claimed by the government. If India is truly committed to building an improved sports culture, it should follow the recommendations of the report on “Promotion of Sports in India,” presented by the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Human Resource Development to the Rajya Sabha in November 2006. n The claim that the CWG will help create a “clean, beautiful, vibrant, world class” Delhi has already been proven wrong with grave human costs in the form of slum demolitions, arrests of homeless citizens and beggars, destruction of livelihoods of the urban poor, and environmental degradation. The Economics of the Games: Necessary Expenditure? Wasteful Extravagance? n The budget for the CWG has undergone several revisions since India won the bid for the Games in 2003. From an initial projection of Rs. 1,899 crore, estimates of the total cost of the Games now range from an official figure of Rs. 10,000 crore to estimates, by independent experts, of at least Rs. 30,000 crore. n The budgetary commitment to the Games was apparently made without any detailed cost-benefit analysis and social and environmental impact assessment. n The allocation for the Commonwealth Games in the Union Budget (Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports) grew from Rs. 45.5 crore in 2005-06 to Rs. 2,883 crore in 2009-10, a whopping 6,235% increase. For the same period, the Union Budget for education rose by just 60% while the increase in health expenditure was 160%. n The allocation for CWG projects in 2010-11 is Rs. 2,069.52 crore in the Union Budget and Rs. 2,105 crore in the Delhi Budget, of which, Rs. 1,000 crore is from the Centre as additional assistance. n India’s targeted goal for net revenue from the Games is Rs. 1,780 crore, which is ambitious, as affirmed by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India in July 2009. n India’s expenses for the CWG are likely to create a negative financial legacy for the nation, the effects of which are already visible in the form of higher cost of living and taxes for Delhi residents. In March 2010, the Government of Delhi declared it has no funds for new projects for the next fiscal year. n In order to meet the budgetary shortfall for the Games, funds marked for essential social sector spending have also been used. For instance, funds from the Scheduled Caste Sub Plan (Special Component Plan) have been reallocated to cover CWG related expenditures in Delhi in 2009-10. This reflects not just a violation of the government’s commitments but also the existence of unethical decision making processes. 4. The Social Legacy of the Games: Who Gains? Who Loses? n Delhi has witnessed evictions and demolitions of informal settlements and slums in the run-up to the CWG. Most evictions are generally carried out to construct roads, bridges, stadiums, and parking lots, or under the guise of city “beautification,” ostensibly to create a “world class” city. n Authorities are clearing street vendors, rickshaw pullers, and other informal sector workers off the roads, and destroying livelihoods of the urban poor. n “Beggars” and homeless citizens are being rounded up, arrested and arbitrarily detained under the Bombay Prevention of Beggary Act 1959. The Department of Social Welfare has announced “no-tolerance zones” in Delhi and a harsh crackdown against “beggars,” including plans to send them back to their states of origin. n There is rampant exploitation of workers at CWG construction sites. This includes low pay, unsafe working conditions, lack of housing, use of child labour, non-registration of workers, and denial of social security benefits. More than a hundred deaths have been reported from the CWG sites. No compensation has been offered to family members of the workers who lost their lives. n Civil liberties in Delhi are being curtailed, and as the Games draw near, the city is likely to witness increased surveillance and restrictions against residents. Recommendations While detailed recommendations related to the CWG process in India have been made in a separate section, a summary of the key general recommendations include: n A full and detailed inquiry should be conducted into the decision-making and bidding process that led to India hosting the Games as well as on the total expenditure of the CWG. n There must be full public disclosure of all finances related to the CWG. n Immediate measures need to be taken to prevent further violations of human rights in the run-up to the Games. The government must comply with India’s national and international human rights and legal commitments. n The Indian government should have a legacy plan for the Games based on principles of human rights and environmental sustainability. n The Delhi government should ensure that: l Forced evictions and slum demolitions are halted. l “Beggars” and homeless citizens are not discriminated against, relocated, or arbitrarily arrested and detained. l Workers’ rights are upheld and protected. l Livelihoods of the urban poor are not destroyed. n The National Human Rights Commission should conduct an investigation into the human rights violations related to the CWG. n The Government of India should commission an independent study on the social, environmental and economic impacts of the Games on the country. n The Comptroller and Auditor General of India (CAG) should conduct a post-games audit to assess the legacy of the CWG. n Officials who have consistently overstated benefits from the Games, withheld critical information, and misappropriated funds should be investigated, and if proven guilty, prosecuted. n A comprehensive environmental and social impact assessment with a detailed cost-benefit analysis must be conducted prior to the decision to host any mega event. n Given India’s stark socio-economic reality and the negative social and economic costs already evident in the lead up to the CWG, India should under no circumstances, bid for the Olympic Games or any other mega events. ___________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 19:52:26 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 19:52:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Information War' Message-ID: Countries that have endorsed a Russian-sponsored U.N. initiative to strengthen "information security" on the Internet include India. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130052701 Excerpt: _________________________ At a U.N. disarmament conference in 2008, Sergei Korotkov of the Russian Defense Ministry argued that anytime a government promotes ideas on the Internet with the goal of subverting another country's government — even in the name of democratic reform — it should qualify as "aggression." And that, in turn, would make it illegal under the U.N. Charter. "Practically any information operation conducted by a state or a number of states against another state would be qualified as an interference into internal affairs," Korotkov said through an interpreter. So any good cause, like [the] promotion of democracy, cannot be used as a justification for such actions." _______________________________ Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From aliens at dataone.in Sat Sep 25 09:53:19 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 09:53:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HATE DOES NOT WORK Message-ID: <002401cb5c69$62d35690$287a03b0$@in> HATE DOES NOT WORK. It’s time Congress realized this truth The PIONEER EDIT DESK http://www.dailypioneer.com/284472/Hate-does-not-work.html The Bharatiya Janata Party’s victory in the Gujarat Assembly by election in Kathlal constituency is a resounding slap in the face of the Congress that has stepped up its motivated campaign of slander and worse against Chief Minister Narendra Modi and the party after the CBI framed and arrested former Minister of State for Home Amit Shah in the alleged Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. The Congress may now seek to downplay the election outcome as being ‘unrepresentative’ of the political mood in the State as a whole and, therefore, inconsequential, but it cannot ignore the fact that it has lost this seat for the first time in 50 years, and that too with a spectacular margin of more than 21,000 votes. Nor can the party pretend to gloss over the fact that Kathlal is in central Gujarat, a region which has Since the setback for the Congress comes ahead of crucial civic elections in the State in October, the party should feel worried. The last big win the Congress has had in Gujarat was during the 2001 municipal elections; since then, it has been a downswing all along. Despite its vitriolic attacks on Mr. Modi and efforts to discredit him, the Congress has miserably failed to mobilize opinion in its favour. Yet, despite the repeated electoral setbacks the Congress has suffered since 2002, it has been — and continues to remain — reluctant to abandon its ‘Hate Modi’ campaign, scripted by ‘secular’ jholawallahs who neither contest elections nor are accountable to the people. Their larger-than-life image propagated by a biased media and their proximity to certain leaders in the Congress allows them the opportunity to decide for the party what should it be its political line in Gujarat. That apart, there’s an important lesson for everybody to be learned from successive election From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sat Sep 25 12:23:45 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 23:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <796647.74009.qm@web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Inder, I second you. On impossibility of return or to "restore things", i wish to share Sheikh Saidi's couplet: Raftam ki khaar az pa kasham, mohmil nihan shud az nazar! Yak lahza ghafil boodam o sad saalah raham door shud! love gowhar fazili p.s. I am not sure Gowhar Geelani is on this list. In case he is not, I will however share your response with him. --- On Fri, 9/24/10, Inder Salim wrote: > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' > To: "reader-list" > Date: Friday, September 24, 2010, 12:10 AM > Dear Gowhar > thanks > > the most magical thing would have been a non-violent > struggle in 1990 > itself. alas... > > but i guess, we have a long history of getting things done > through the > barrel of gun, earlier it was sword.  What the > violence has achieved > so far:  affluent class from Kashmir are constantly > thinking to have > an alternative space outside Kashmir, in Delhi or in Jammu > even, > leaving behind the rural poor masses to face the music. > People in > Kashmir  need to restore the confidence of the its own > intellectual > class, who inwardly yearn for a more democratic voice. The > more > violence is there the more people will think about material > security, > the more it can corrupt the mind...  which is actually > happening... it > is besides the point that why security forces are trigger > happy in the > valley > > . ( for a while i am holding back the profound nature of > what VIOLENCE > actually means to us... ) > > The trouble is that we are never in a position to restore > the things > lost, exactly as we once experienced...  Things change > at a very rapid > pace every time, every day, every year..and when at > thisjuncture we > have a violent protest minus gun, it should be an > opportunity to all > the stake holders to start something fresh. Taking  > about kashmir > about Indian and anti indian position would actually limit > its scope > to open up spaces for other voices to join.  Kashmiri > stuggle should > have a unique indigenous voice, and i dont think they need > to be > dependent upon moral and political and material support > from Pakistan > . > > Kashmris perhaps need to shun the Gun culture once for all, > and think > creatively about the Kashmir issue,  rather something > which is based > on long term strategy. The question why AZADI ? needs a > sincere > discourse to disseminate the idea of new free Kashmir. What > is > pressing for most of the educated youth that whether they > should > listen to people like Dr. ZAkir Naik or about what suits > them > actually. > > Riding on the shoulders of faith will be again a temporary > repreive, > since people finally dont need a straight jacketed belief > system to > carry on their routine,  I am not too optimistic here, > but still, i > love the kashmiri way of life, which is its own... not like > Iraqi, or > Punjabi, Sindhi etc... > > so, to weave the Kashmir discourse with the Kashmir > culture  will > perhaps salvage the psyche of Kashmiri youth who are really > hurt by > the violence unleashed by all agencies... > > Kashmir discourse is beyond vengeance of recent innocent > killings, even. . > > shall keep on thinking myself..... > > love > is > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > > > I appreciate your attitude towards Pandits and so many > are their like you in Kashmir but could not dare to come out > fearing of militants or separatists. If everyone thinks like > that in Kashmir there want be any problem and Kashmir will > be on the right track. Thanks accepting about the beginning > of Pak sponsored gun culture for which you give reason > rigging of election. However, the tense situation initiated > by Pak will be there even if election rigging was not there. > So at one place it is proved that Pak with the help of few > local Kashmiri played key role to push out Kashmiri Pandit > from valley. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:25 AM > > To: reader-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for > the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater > Kashmir' > > > > Thanks dear Shuddha for this wonderful forward > > > > Lot of people on the list have this impression that > all the Muslims in > > the valley think that Pandits left the valley on their > own, or > > Jagmohan convinced them so..... > > > > But that is  not the fact. Majority of Muslims in > valley miss Pandits, > > and want their return to kashmir. Both the communities > love each > > others simplicity and want to restore that > co-existence in the valley. > > > > It was in 1986 that congress J&K Chief Mufi Mohd > Syed thought to > > outwit the NC-Congress alliance by instigating > communal riots.  The > > subsequent rigging of elections ensured the beginning > of Pakistan > > sponsored Gun culture, which automatically pushed out > Pandits from > > Valley. Qazi Nissar was MUF canditate ( killed by > militants later ) > > who never said a word against Pandits in his > lectures. > > > > When passion for Azadi was really at peak, that time > even, neighbors > > helped Pandits to move out safely. But now when lot of > Muslims > > brothers have suffered,( first by securities excess > then by rogue > > militans, then by both, and now by SOG and all that... > ) sincerely > > want Pandits back in their homes. That is my > feeling... > > > > But the problem with Pandit leadership is that they > have different > > priorities: one of them is extreme love for Indian > Nationalism,  its > > Tricolour etc, which is not a sin, but in Kashmir it > complicates the > > problems, since Kashmir is a conflict zone between > differnt parties. > > But  the bonds between Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri > Pandits is based > > on shared cultural heritage, music food,  simplicity > and above all > > language, and not because of some conflict. > > > > So, Pandit communty need to decide what is good for > them . My humble > > suggestion is that both the communities need more > visibility through > > multiple interactive cultural sessions  .... > > > > I dont see any political role for Kashmiri Pandits to > play in Kashmir > > or outside. The number game is quite vital in any > democratic form of > > politics, as we know, and Kashmiri pandits are very > few, that too > > scattered all over the country. > > > > The interaction is already happening at a very > personal level. There > > are exchanges and friendly  meetings even during this > time. > > > > Both the communities are nostalgic about their past, > one can only wish > > a happy new beginning between the two.. > > > > with love > > is > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Shuddhabrata > Sengupta > > > wrote: > >> Dear All, > >> > >> Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar > Geelani in today's Greater > >> Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal > responsibility'. And how he > >> talks about the value of repeated entreaties. >  Hope it will be of interest > >> to all. > >> > >> best > >> > >> Shuddha > >> > >> ----------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > >> Come home,  Come soon : On the hoped for return > of Kashmiri Pandits to > >> Kashmir > >> > >> Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September > 2010 > >> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp > >> > >> > >> I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. > Anita. As her name would > >> suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my > form-teacher at school. I > >> remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti > Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha > >> Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm > today. I remember how Anita > >> Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position > in my class. I also > >> remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the > best of the lot! I remember > >> everything. > >> > >> Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our > Kashmir, full of sweet > >> memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in > the same school, playing > >> together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, > attending marriage > >> functions, birthday parties, offering condolences > when someone in the > >> neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other > and even engaging in > >> smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. > >> > >> 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' > >> Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in > thin air. Peace didn't stay, > >> it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful > memories in 'Angels Public > >> School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public > School' and 'Shaheen Public > >> School' in Srinagar soon started turning into > nightmares. > >> > >> The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama > Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and > >> Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my > school were now being hit by > >> stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets > replaced the 'recess' and > >> 'period' bells in my school. > >> > >> 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' > >> Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything > changed, dramatically. I > >> remember everything. How Indian troopers > humiliated my elderly people, day > >> in and day out; how they slapped me after on their > directions (read orders) > >> I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit > pasted on an electric pole in > >> our locality; how they stared at me, abused, > hurled choicest invectives and > >> threatened me while walking on my streets for no > fault of mine; how they > >> made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows > on an undeclared curfew > >> day, when I and my other classmates were to appear > in class 10th papers at > >> Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all happened > in early years of 1990's. > >> The memories of their abuses and slaps haunt me, > still. > >> > >> I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch > and Kill', the firing > >> incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, > mine blasts, encounters, > >> massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans > for freedom from India, > >> slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans > against Pandit brethren. > >> > >> And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my > Valley. That was a painful > >> memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious > Governor of the > >> strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of > Kashmiri Pandits. > >> But, I will blame myself > >> Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, > not influential enough to > >> be responsible for their migration or to prevent > their exodus; but I still > >> blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, > as a proud Kashmiri > >> nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, > it may be my idealism. Yes, > >> I know those were not ideal times. > >> > >> Who's responsible for this? > >> Today, there are television debates on Indian > media about 'Kashmiriyat'. > >> Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've > too many answers coming. > >> Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some > blame militants and > >> pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others > blame the unfortunate > >> circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former > Governor Mr. Jagmohan, > >> others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir > while few others maintain > >> that what happened was unfortunate and should > never have actually happened, > >> but the migration could not have been avoided > during those hard times. > >> > >> I've a different take on the issue. I believe that > I'm responsible for the > >> exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of > Kashmir as a whole is > >> responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also > believe that Pandits too > >> are responsible for their migration. For the > simple reason that together we > >> shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, > exemplary friendships and > >> harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, > should have never allowed the > >> circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, > our history; and above all > >> our great cultural bonds! But they did. > >> > >> Was it possible? > >> Though in my previous articles I may have pointed > fingers at the politics of > >> Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of > pro-freedom alliance > >> Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani > Lone, but here I must > >> shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost > his father, Mirwiaz Molvi > >> Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone > brothers lost their > >> father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth > death anniversary of Molvi > >> Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone > and Bilal Lone too had an > >> option to leave Kashmir and get settled down > abroad, far away from hell in > >> Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face > the challenges the > >> circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to > them! > >> > >> Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. > During late 1990's my mother > >> was seriously wounded when militants hurled a > grenade towards a bunker of > >> Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The > grenade missed the intended > >> target, as would quite often happen during those > days, and thus like many > >> other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted > on my mother too. Her > >> left foot was badly wounded and it took almost > four years to heal, though > >> not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. > We too had the option. > >> Because my father had his shawl business running > successfully in Kolkata > >> since almost three decades. > >> > >> Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' > and avoided leaving > >> Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. > May be it wasn't possible. > >> Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! > >> > >> 'Life hasn't been easy' > >> Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after > migration. It hasn't been easy > >> for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in > different parts of India. > >> Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu > Television in Hyderabad, India in > >> 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories > of migration. Sameer, his > >> wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the > scorching heat of Jammu while > >> sitting in a temporary shed that consisted of only > one-room. His stories > >> were very moving and would often leave a pang in > my heart. Like hundreds of > >> other Pandit families, his family too had left > Kashmir in early 1990's. A > >> close Pandit friend of my father in Rainawari, > Srinagar, too had to leave > >> Kashmir alongwith his entire family. Their house > was burnt down and reduced > >> to ashes. This friend of my father also used to > buy shawls from us. At the > >> time of migration he owed us a lot of money, the > cheque he had given to my > >> father bounced. After apologizing he promised to > repay every single penny in > >> installments once he settled down in Kolkata. My > father offered all possible > >> help and said to the family that they need not to > pay our money back, > >> because we understood what they had gone through. > But, as an honest > >> businessman he kept his word, his promise; and > repaid all due amount in > >> smaller installments in the following years. That > is Pandit pride! My > >> father's friend kept the friendship going, his > Pandit pride alive and with > >> it the reputation of an honest trader too. > >> > >> 'Burden of unique expectations' > >> Kashmir is a special place having its unique > history. During our marriage > >> ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way > that is unique. It is > >> unparalleled. No where else in the world > invitation is extended or expected > >> like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook > and twitter; an information > >> and technology age, particular members of a > Kashmiri family- that has fixed > >> marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to > homes of their close > >> relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an > invitation. Then, some > >> two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation > card is sent; as the > >> marriage date comes closer several telephonic > calls are made, and then a > >> final call too. At times, even this may not be > enough and that is perhaps > >> why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums > during marriage > >> ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking > tactics! > >> > >> If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and > attend the marriage > >> ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of > them do not come, no one is > >> surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that > Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri > >> Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It > is the result of their > >> great and unique tradition and history that > they've such huge expectations > >> from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not > blaming or accusing each > >> other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking > attention and expecting a lot! > >> > >> To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If > we left Kashmir, why > >> didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two > calls enough? Shouldn't you > >> be doing more and calling us back and receiving us > with open arms?" And > >> Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when > things were tough here, you > >> shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? > Shouldn't you've faced the > >> challenges of the circumstances like we did? > Shouldn't you have stayed and > >> never gone? > >> > >> Both actually expect a lot from each other! There > is no communal disharmony > >> in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been > challenging and the going has been > >> hard and tough. The movement for freedom in > Kashmir is not against Kashmiri > >> Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian > people, it is against the > >> Indian state and its wicked state-craft. > >> Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of > them. Please come back. > >> 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! > >> > >> (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in > Bonn, Germany since 2006, > >> where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of > Germany] as an Editor. > >> gowhargeelani at gmail.com) > >> > >> > >> > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> Raqs Media Collective > >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> www.sarai.net > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe > >> in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 14:09:29 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 14:09:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' In-Reply-To: <796647.74009.qm@web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <796647.74009.qm@web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Gowhar translation please, i see suspending my own reasoning against attempts to translate: verses and other things, but it is again a very complicated question, may be we connect it to wider kashmir discourse. but i come back : Ls sar kar daappan maan chi sippar, kafir sapdit korum iqrar ( my nude performance at LTG organized by Sarai in 2007, when i filled little (maitsch ) earth ,in my mouth to resist its translation while its audio was played on the screen. i distributed fragments of poem to the audience) this radical poem by Zargar sahib attracted fatwa once in Kashmir, but sung by local folk chakri singers, and the CD is available in the market at the moment. it will be its english translation that will turn it into gun power. Here i think if Satanic Verses was written in Arabic, perhpas, it would not have attracted hostilies all over the world. There are some guys in kashmir who write erotic poetry in Arabic. fantastic, but it will not be easy for them to publish, and yes its translation. So, a paradox. but a good one to start about the Kashmir discouse itself. Right now the 'Kashmir issue' has been translated from end to end, easy for others to manipulate it, because the very projection of it has perhaps,drained it from the very force that it is composed of. what i means to say here, is that when culture ( culture in deeper sesne, including contemporary) is detached from the naked grand narrative of the conflict it becomes easy for its lovers to play with it. The devil is in the detail, so one need to bring him closer to know to engage, to drive him away even. The translation banishes the existing detail to operate effectively, and incoporates a new detail which may be a something alien to its translators even. It is not about originality versus fake, but something more..... Theoritically, i see a freedom moment, as you said is like a romantic affair , so therefore, to be handled very sensibly. A single foot print of the beloved becomes part of the shrine, ( the new idea of free Kashmir ). A total tilt towards the concpet that violence as methodology is temporary, but necessary to challange the state that occupies, would be problematic in the long run. I may look Gandhian, but one needs to discover some Gandhigiri in the least, to sustain the discourse, that is possible if it begins to turn creative in approach. That is the challange, but worth to think about, i guess. Here, sufi present/past would be handy to make it happen, i believe. There is one work by Marcel Duchapm titled . "The bride stripped bare by here bachlors, even." It is very complex work done before world war II, but one of the most profound works by this avant garde artists. The lovers of AZADI ( Azadi as muse , let us say for a while ) need to realize that giving freedom to muse actually will result into one sided affair, S/he needs freedom to dance, to sing, to meet homosexuals, which would be challange to some phallus oriented lovers even. But a lover need not to be possessive and at the same time, the love affair should be unconditional. I want to know if the desire for a free nation is akin to the simple desire of a body for other body. I have no idea of sprituality that does not engage material of the body and soul. Religous sermons on this sprituality only contaminates, but that is the challange. Something at individual level even, one may need to raealize how profound is the concept of Azadi, similar to the understanding that how a private lover affair is actually healthy for any society to grow. That is why i want the concept of Azadi to flow like River in the minds of people in kashmir, which can liberate their very souls. I think i was myself very predictable in my previous mail, so this love but tranaslation please On 9/25/10, gowhar fazli wrote: > Inder, I second you. > > On impossibility of return or to "restore things", i wish to share Sheikh Saidi's couplet: > > Raftam ki khaar az pa kasham, mohmil nihan shud az nazar! > Yak lahza ghafil boodam o sad saalah raham door shud! > > love gowhar fazili > > p.s. I am not sure Gowhar Geelani is on this list. In case he is not, I will however share your response with him. > > > --- On Fri, 9/24/10, Inder Salim wrote: > > > From: Inder Salim > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Friday, September 24, 2010, 12:10 AM > > Dear Gowhar > > thanks > > > > the most magical thing would have been a non-violent > > struggle in 1990 > > itself. alas... > > > > but i guess, we have a long history of getting things done > > through the > > barrel of gun, earlier it was sword. What the > > violence has achieved > > so far: affluent class from Kashmir are constantly > > thinking to have > > an alternative space outside Kashmir, in Delhi or in Jammu > > even, > > leaving behind the rural poor masses to face the music. > > People in > > Kashmir need to restore the confidence of the its own > > intellectual > > class, who inwardly yearn for a more democratic voice. The > > more > > violence is there the more people will think about material > > security, > > the more it can corrupt the mind... which is actually > > happening... it > > is besides the point that why security forces are trigger > > happy in the > > valley > > > > . ( for a while i am holding back the profound nature of > > what VIOLENCE > > actually means to us... ) > > > > The trouble is that we are never in a position to restore > > the things > > lost, exactly as we once experienced... Things change > > at a very rapid > > pace every time, every day, every year..and when at > > thisjuncture we > > have a violent protest minus gun, it should be an > > opportunity to all > > the stake holders to start something fresh. Taking > > about kashmir > > about Indian and anti indian position would actually limit > > its scope > > to open up spaces for other voices to join. Kashmiri > > stuggle should > > have a unique indigenous voice, and i dont think they need > > to be > > dependent upon moral and political and material support > > from Pakistan > > . > > > > Kashmris perhaps need to shun the Gun culture once for all, > > and think > > creatively about the Kashmir issue, rather something > > which is based > > on long term strategy. The question why AZADI ? needs a > > sincere > > discourse to disseminate the idea of new free Kashmir. What > > is > > pressing for most of the educated youth that whether they > > should > > listen to people like Dr. ZAkir Naik or about what suits > > them > > actually. > > > > Riding on the shoulders of faith will be again a temporary > > repreive, > > since people finally dont need a straight jacketed belief > > system to > > carry on their routine, I am not too optimistic here, > > but still, i > > love the kashmiri way of life, which is its own... not like > > Iraqi, or > > Punjabi, Sindhi etc... > > > > so, to weave the Kashmir discourse with the Kashmir > > culture will > > perhaps salvage the psyche of Kashmiri youth who are really > > hurt by > > the violence unleashed by all agencies... > > > > Kashmir discourse is beyond vengeance of recent innocent > > killings, even. . > > > > shall keep on thinking myself..... > > > > love > > is > > > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Bipin Trivedi > > wrote: > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > I appreciate your attitude towards Pandits and so many > > are their like you in Kashmir but could not dare to come out > > fearing of militants or separatists. If everyone thinks like > > that in Kashmir there want be any problem and Kashmir will > > be on the right track. Thanks accepting about the beginning > > of Pak sponsored gun culture for which you give reason > > rigging of election. However, the tense situation initiated > > by Pak will be there even if election rigging was not there. > > So at one place it is proved that Pak with the help of few > > local Kashmiri played key role to push out Kashmiri Pandit > > from valley. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:25 AM > > > To: reader-list > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for > > the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater > > Kashmir' > > > > > > Thanks dear Shuddha for this wonderful forward > > > > > > Lot of people on the list have this impression that > > all the Muslims in > > > the valley think that Pandits left the valley on their > > own, or > > > Jagmohan convinced them so..... > > > > > > But that is not the fact. Majority of Muslims in > > valley miss Pandits, > > > and want their return to kashmir. Both the communities > > love each > > > others simplicity and want to restore that > > co-existence in the valley. > > > > > > It was in 1986 that congress J&K Chief Mufi Mohd > > Syed thought to > > > outwit the NC-Congress alliance by instigating > > communal riots. The > > > subsequent rigging of elections ensured the beginning > > of Pakistan > > > sponsored Gun culture, which automatically pushed out > > Pandits from > > > Valley. Qazi Nissar was MUF canditate ( killed by > > militants later ) > > > who never said a word against Pandits in his > > lectures. > > > > > > When passion for Azadi was really at peak, that time > > even, neighbors > > > helped Pandits to move out safely. But now when lot of > > Muslims > > > brothers have suffered,( first by securities excess > > then by rogue > > > militans, then by both, and now by SOG and all that... > > ) sincerely > > > want Pandits back in their homes. That is my > > feeling... > > > > > > But the problem with Pandit leadership is that they > > have different > > > priorities: one of them is extreme love for Indian > > Nationalism, its > > > Tricolour etc, which is not a sin, but in Kashmir it > > complicates the > > > problems, since Kashmir is a conflict zone between > > differnt parties. > > > But the bonds between Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri > > Pandits is based > > > on shared cultural heritage, music food, simplicity > > and above all > > > language, and not because of some conflict. > > > > > > So, Pandit communty need to decide what is good for > > them . My humble > > > suggestion is that both the communities need more > > visibility through > > > multiple interactive cultural sessions .... > > > > > > I dont see any political role for Kashmiri Pandits to > > play in Kashmir > > > or outside. The number game is quite vital in any > > democratic form of > > > politics, as we know, and Kashmiri pandits are very > > few, that too > > > scattered all over the country. > > > > > > The interaction is already happening at a very > > personal level. There > > > are exchanges and friendly meetings even during this > > time. > > > > > > Both the communities are nostalgic about their past, > > one can only wish > > > a happy new beginning between the two.. > > > > > > with love > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Shuddhabrata > > Sengupta > > > > > wrote: > > >> Dear All, > > >> > > >> Here is a forthright and moving piece by Gowhar > > Geelani in today's Greater > > >> Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he takes 'personal > > responsibility'. And how he > > >> talks about the value of repeated entreaties. > > Hope it will be of interest > > >> to all. > > >> > > >> best > > >> > > >> Shuddha > > >> > > >> ----------------------------------- > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Come home, Come soon : On the hoped for return > > of Kashmiri Pandits to > > >> Kashmir > > >> > > >> Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, 22 September > > 2010 > > >> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp > > >> > > >> > > >> I vividly remember my favourite school teacher Ms. > > Anita. As her name would > > >> suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. She was my > > form-teacher at school. I > > >> remember my others Pandit teachers too. Mrs Bharti > > Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha > > >> Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them for what I'm > > today. I remember how Anita > > >> Ma'am would ensure that I secured first position > > in my class. I also > > >> remember how Teja Ma'am would want me to be the > > best of the lot! I remember > > >> everything. > > >> > > >> Those were beautiful and peaceful days in our > > Kashmir, full of sweet > > >> memories. Muslims, Pandits and Sikhs studying in > > the same school, playing > > >> together in playgrounds, sharing their lunches, > > attending marriage > > >> functions, birthday parties, offering condolences > > when someone in the > > >> neighbourhood died, sympathizing with each other > > and even engaging in > > >> smaller verbal brawls as friends normally do. > > >> > > >> 'Music of bullets replaced school bells' > > >> Then, all of a sudden, tranquillity vanished in > > thin air. Peace didn't stay, > > >> it was blown away into pieces. My beautiful > > memories in 'Angels Public > > >> School, 'Abhay Public School', 'Light Public > > School' and 'Shaheen Public > > >> School' in Srinagar soon started turning into > > nightmares. > > >> > > >> The huge paintings of greats like Dr. Allama > > Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and > > >> Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on the walls of my > > school were now being hit by > > >> stray bullets on a regular basis. Music of bullets > > replaced the 'recess' and > > >> 'period' bells in my school. > > >> > > >> 'My beautiful garden isn't attractive anymore' > > >> Life was not the same again after 1989. Everything > > changed, dramatically. I > > >> remember everything. How Indian troopers > > humiliated my elderly people, day > > >> in and day out; how they slapped me after on their > > directions (read orders) > > >> I'd read a poster of a popular militant outfit > > pasted on an electric pole in > > >> our locality; how they stared at me, abused, > > hurled choicest invectives and > > >> threatened me while walking on my streets for no > > fault of mine; how they > > >> made me to bend on my knees and walk on my elbows > > on an undeclared curfew > > >> day, when I and my other classmates were to appear > > in class 10th papers at > > >> Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It all happened > > in early years of 1990's. > > >> The memories of their abuses and slaps haunt me, > > still. > > >> > > >> I remember the Army crackdowns, operation 'Catch > > and Kill', the firing > > >> incidents, cross-firing incidents, grenade blasts, > > mine blasts, encounters, > > >> massive anti-India protest demonstrations, slogans > > for freedom from India, > > >> slogans in favour of militants, even some slogans > > against Pandit brethren. > > >> > > >> And I also do remember Pandits leaving from my > > Valley. That was a painful > > >> memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the then notorious > > Governor of the > > >> strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for the exodus of > > Kashmiri Pandits. > > >> But, I will blame myself > > >> Yes, I know I was a school-going boy at that time, > > not influential enough to > > >> be responsible for their migration or to prevent > > their exodus; but I still > > >> blame myself. I strongly feel and believe that we, > > as a proud Kashmiri > > >> nation, should have prevented their exodus. Yes, > > it may be my idealism. Yes, > > >> I know those were not ideal times. > > >> > > >> Who's responsible for this? > > >> Today, there are television debates on Indian > > media about 'Kashmiriyat'. > > >> Who's responsible for the exodus of Pandits? We've > > too many answers coming. > > >> Many Pandits blame their own Muslim brethren, some > > blame militants and > > >> pro-freedom forces active in Kashmir, yet others > > blame the unfortunate > > >> circumstances of 1989. Many Muslims blame former > > Governor Mr. Jagmohan, > > >> others say Pandits shouldn't have left Kashmir > > while few others maintain > > >> that what happened was unfortunate and should > > never have actually happened, > > >> but the migration could not have been avoided > > during those hard times. > > >> > > >> I've a different take on the issue. I believe that > > I'm responsible for the > > >> exodus of Pandits. I believe Muslim community of > > Kashmir as a whole is > > >> responsible for the migration of Pandits. I also > > believe that Pandits too > > >> are responsible for their migration. For the > > simple reason that together we > > >> shared beautiful history of elegant bonds, > > exemplary friendships and > > >> harmony, and we, as a great Kashmiri nation, > > should have never allowed the > > >> circumstances dictate our decisions, our lives, > > our history; and above all > > >> our great cultural bonds! But they did. > > >> > > >> Was it possible? > > >> Though in my previous articles I may have pointed > > fingers at the politics of > > >> Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman of a faction of > > pro-freedom alliance > > >> Hurriyat Conference and another leader Sajad Gani > > Lone, but here I must > > >> shower praises on both of them. Mirwaiz Umar lost > > his father, Mirwiaz Molvi > > >> Farooq to bullets on 21st May, 199o; while as Lone > > brothers lost their > > >> father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets on the twelfth > > death anniversary of Molvi > > >> Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz Umar, Sajad Lone > > and Bilal Lone too had an > > >> option to leave Kashmir and get settled down > > abroad, far away from hell in > > >> Kashmir; but they didn't, instead chose to face > > the challenges the > > >> circumstances had thrown before them. Kudos to > > them! > > >> > > >> Leave these brave leaders aside for a moment. > > During late 1990's my mother > > >> was seriously wounded when militants hurled a > > grenade towards a bunker of > > >> Indian troopers at Safakadal, Srinagar. The > > grenade missed the intended > > >> target, as would quite often happen during those > > days, and thus like many > > >> other pedestrians; serious injuries were inflicted > > on my mother too. Her > > >> left foot was badly wounded and it took almost > > four years to heal, though > > >> not permanently. Our family did not leave Kashmir. > > We too had the option. > > >> Because my father had his shawl business running > > successfully in Kolkata > > >> since almost three decades. > > >> > > >> Should Pandits too have braved the 'come what may' > > and avoided leaving > > >> Kashmir, our beloved motherland? Well, debatable. > > May be it wasn't possible. > > >> Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, perhaps no! > > >> > > >> 'Life hasn't been easy' > > >> Life hasn't been the same for Pandits after > > migration. It hasn't been easy > > >> for them in the migrant camps of Jammu or in > > different parts of India. > > >> Sameer Bhat, my former colleague at Eenadu > > Television in Hyderabad, India in > > >> 2003-04, would often narrate the painful stories > > of migration. Sameer, his > > >> wife, ailing mother and kids would bear the > > scorching heat of Jammu while > > >> sitting in a temporary shed that consisted of only > > one-room. His stories > > >> were very moving and would often leave a pang in > > my heart. Like hundreds of > > >> other Pandit families, his family too had left > > Kashmir in early 1990's. A > > >> close Pandit friend of my father in Rainawari, > > Srinagar, too had to leave > > >> Kashmir alongwith his entire family. Their house > > was burnt down and reduced > > >> to ashes. This friend of my father also used to > > buy shawls from us. At the > > >> time of migration he owed us a lot of money, the > > cheque he had given to my > > >> father bounced. After apologizing he promised to > > repay every single penny in > > >> installments once he settled down in Kolkata. My > > father offered all possible > > >> help and said to the family that they need not to > > pay our money back, > > >> because we understood what they had gone through. > > But, as an honest > > >> businessman he kept his word, his promise; and > > repaid all due amount in > > >> smaller installments in the following years. That > > is Pandit pride! My > > >> father's friend kept the friendship going, his > > Pandit pride alive and with > > >> it the reputation of an honest trader too. > > >> > > >> 'Burden of unique expectations' > > >> Kashmir is a special place having its unique > > history. During our marriage > > >> ceremonies we extend invitation to guests in a way > > that is unique. It is > > >> unparalleled. No where else in the world > > invitation is extended or expected > > >> like as in Kashmir. Even in this age of facebook > > and twitter; an information > > >> and technology age, particular members of a > > Kashmiri family- that has fixed > > >> marriage of a son or a daughter- go personally to > > homes of their close > > >> relatives, friends and neighbours to extend an > > invitation. Then, some > > >> two-three weeks before the marriage an invitation > > card is sent; as the > > >> marriage date comes closer several telephonic > > calls are made, and then a > > >> final call too. At times, even this may not be > > enough and that is perhaps > > >> why many relatives or friends throw their tantrums > > during marriage > > >> ceremonies; you may call it an attention-seeking > > tactics! > > >> > > >> If all relatives, neighbours and friends come and > > attend the marriage > > >> ceremony, it is considered a miracle! If all of > > them do not come, no one is > > >> surprised! That is Kashmir. It is not that > > Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri > > >> Muslims are at war with each other after 1989. It > > is the result of their > > >> great and unique tradition and history that > > they've such huge expectations > > >> from each other. As a matter of fact, they're not > > blaming or accusing each > > >> other, instead throwing tantrums, seeking > > attention and expecting a lot! > > >> > > >> To me what actually Pandits are asking is this:"If > > we left Kashmir, why > > >> didn't you call us back? Are merely one or two > > calls enough? Shouldn't you > > >> be doing more and calling us back and receiving us > > with open arms?" And > > >> Muslims are replying:"Why did you leave us when > > things were tough here, you > > >> shouldn't have left us alone in the first place? > > Shouldn't you've faced the > > >> challenges of the circumstances like we did? > > Shouldn't you have stayed and > > >> never gone? > > >> > > >> Both actually expect a lot from each other! There > > is no communal disharmony > > >> in Kashmir. Only circumstances have been > > challenging and the going has been > > >> hard and tough. The movement for freedom in > > Kashmir is not against Kashmiri > > >> Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against the Indian > > people, it is against the > > >> Indian state and its wicked state-craft. > > >> Today, I once again extend an invitation to all of > > them. Please come back. > > >> 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! > > >> > > >> (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri journalist based in > > Bonn, Germany since 2006, > > >> where he works for Deutsche Welle [Voice of > > Germany] as an Editor. > > >> gowhargeelani at gmail.com) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > >> Raqs Media Collective > > >> shuddha at sarai.net > > >> www.sarai.net > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe > > >> in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sat Sep 25 15:25:23 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 02:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: Gowhar Geelani calling for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater Kashmir' Message-ID: <59566.89761.qm@web114713.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Your passage is too profound for me to venture a response. Translation of Saidi's couplet: On impossibility of return or to "restore things"... Raftam ki khaar az pa kasham,  mohmil nihan shud az nazar! Yak lahza ghafil boodam o sad saalah raham door shud! I went (aside) to pull a thorn out of my foot,  and lost track of my (she) camel (in the desert) A moments lapse, and I lost a hundred a years of my way! I thought transitoriness of truth or for that matter intimacy between people, lost in a lapse made in moments and becoming irrecoverable has been finely captured in this verse.  Also the struggle for Azadi can be compared with the pulling of a thorn out of ones foot and losing the track... with the loss of intimacy and common culture with Pandits nurtured through hundreds of years of living in close proximity...  Conversely it could have similar meanings for Pandits too... > --- On Sat, 9/25/10, Inder Salim > wrote: > > > From: Inder Salim > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani calling for > the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in 'Greater > Kashmir' > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 2:09 PM > > Dear Gowhar > > > > translation please, > > > > i see suspending my own reasoning against attempts to > > translate: > > verses and other things,  but it is again a very > > complicated question, > > may be we connect it to wider kashmir discourse. but i > come > > back : > > > > Ls sar kar daappan maan chi sippar, kafir sapdit > korum > > iqrar ( my nude > > performance at LTG organized by Sarai in 2007, when i > > filled little > > (maitsch ) earth ,in my mouth to resist its > translation > > while its > > audio was played on the screen. i distributed > fragments of > > poem to the > > audience) > > > > this radical poem by Zargar sahib attracted fatwa once > in > > Kashmir, but > > sung by local folk chakri singers, and the CD is > available > > in the > > market at the moment. it will be its english > translation > > that will > > turn it into gun power. Here i think if Satanic Verses > was > > written in > > Arabic, perhpas, it would not have attracted hostilies > all > > over the > > world. There are some guys in kashmir who write > erotic > > poetry in > > Arabic. fantastic, but it will not be easy for them > to > > publish, and > > yes its translation. > > > > So, a paradox. but a good one to start about the > Kashmir > > discouse itself. > > Right now the  'Kashmir issue'  has been > > translated from end to end, > > easy for others to manipulate it, because the very > > projection of it > > has  perhaps,drained it from the very force that  > > it is composed of. > > what i means to say here, is that when culture ( > culture in > > deeper > > sesne, including contemporary) is detached from the > naked > > grand > > narrative of the conflict it becomes easy for its > lovers to > > play with > > it. The devil is in the detail, so one need to bring > him > > closer to > > know to engage, to drive him away even. The > translation > > banishes the > > existing detail to operate effectively, and > incoporates a > > new detail > > which may be a something alien to its translators > even. It > > is not > > about originality versus fake, but something > more..... > > > > Theoritically, i see a freedom moment, as you said is > like > > a romantic > > affair , so therefore, to be handled very sensibly. A > > single foot > > print of the beloved becomes part of the shrine, ( the > new > > idea of > > free Kashmir ). A total tilt towards the concpet that > > violence as > > methodology is temporary, but necessary to challange > the > > state that > > occupies, would be problematic in the long run. I may > look > > Gandhian, > > but one needs to discover some Gandhigiri in the > least, to > > sustain the > > discourse, that is possible if it begins to turn > creative > > in approach. > > That is the challange, but worth to think about, i > guess. > > Here, sufi > > present/past would be handy to make it happen, i > believe. > > > > There is one work by Marcel Duchapm titled . "The > bride > > stripped bare > > by here bachlors, even." It is very complex work done > > before world war > > II, but one of the most profound works by this avant > garde > > artists. > > > > The lovers of AZADI ( Azadi as muse , let us say for > a > > while ) need to > > realize that giving freedom to muse actually will > result > > into one > > sided affair, S/he needs  freedom to dance, to sing, > > to meet > > homosexuals, which would be  challange to  some > > phallus oriented > > lovers even. But a lover need not to be possessive and > at > > the same > > time, the love affair should be unconditional. > > > > I want to know if the desire for a free nation is akin > to > > the simple > > desire of a body for other body. I have no idea of > > sprituality that > > does not engage material of the body and soul. > Religous > > sermons on > > this sprituality only contaminates, but that is the > > challange. > > > > Something at individual level even, one may need to > > raealize how > > profound is the concept of Azadi, similar to the > > understanding that > > how a private lover affair is actually healthy for > any > > society to > > grow. > > > > That is why i want the concept of Azadi to flow like > River > > in the > > minds of people in kashmir, which can liberate their > very > > souls. > > > > I think i was myself very predictable in my previous > mail, > > so this > > > > love > > but tranaslation please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/25/10, gowhar fazli > > wrote: > > > Inder, I second you. > > > > > > On impossibility of return or to "restore > things", i > > wish to share Sheikh Saidi's couplet: > > > > > > Raftam ki khaar az pa kasham,  mohmil nihan > shud > > az nazar! > > > Yak lahza ghafil boodam o sad saalah raham door > shud! > > > > > > love gowhar fazili > > > > > > p.s.  I am not sure Gowhar Geelani is on this > > list.  In case he is not, I will however share your > > response with him. > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/24/10, Inder Salim > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar Geelani > calling > > for the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir in > 'Greater > > Kashmir' > > > > To: "reader-list" > > > > Date: Friday, September 24, 2010, 12:10 AM > > > > Dear Gowhar > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > the most magical thing would have been a > > non-violent > > > > struggle in 1990 > > > > itself. alas... > > > > > > > > but i guess, we have a long history of > getting > > things done > > > > through the > > > > barrel of gun, earlier it was sword.  What > > the > > > > violence has achieved > > > > so far:  affluent class from Kashmir are > > constantly > > > > thinking to have > > > > an alternative space outside Kashmir, in > Delhi or > > in Jammu > > > > even, > > > > leaving behind the rural poor masses to face > the > > music. > > > > People in > > > > Kashmir  need to restore the confidence of > > the its own > > > > intellectual > > > > class, who inwardly yearn for a more > democratic > > voice. The > > > > more > > > > violence is there the more people will > think > > about material > > > > security, > > > > the more it can corrupt the mind...  which > > is actually > > > > happening... it > > > > is besides the point that why security > forces are > > trigger > > > > happy in the > > > > valley > > > > > > > > . ( for a while i am holding back the > profound > > nature of > > > > what VIOLENCE > > > > actually means to us... ) > > > > > > > > The trouble is that we are never in a > position to > > restore > > > > the things > > > > lost, exactly as we once experienced...  > > Things change > > > > at a very rapid > > > > pace every time, every day, every year..and > when > > at > > > > thisjuncture we > > > > have a violent protest minus gun, it should > be > > an > > > > opportunity to all > > > > the stake holders to start something fresh. > > Taking > > > > about kashmir > > > > about Indian and anti indian position would > > actually limit > > > > its scope > > > > to open up spaces for other voices to > join.  > > Kashmiri > > > > stuggle should > > > > have a unique indigenous voice, and i dont > think > > they need > > > > to be > > > > dependent upon moral and political and > material > > support > > > > from Pakistan > > > > . > > > > > > > > Kashmris perhaps need to shun the Gun > culture > > once for all, > > > > and think > > > > creatively about the Kashmir issue,  > rather > > something > > > > which is based > > > > on long term strategy. The question why > AZADI ? > > needs a > > > > sincere > > > > discourse to disseminate the idea of new > free > > Kashmir. What > > > > is > > > > pressing for most of the educated youth > that > > whether they > > > > should > > > > listen to people like Dr. ZAkir Naik or > about > > what suits > > > > them > > > > actually. > > > > > > > > Riding on the shoulders of faith will be > again a > > temporary > > > > repreive, > > > > since people finally dont need a straight > > jacketed belief > > > > system to > > > > carry on their routine,  I am not too > > optimistic here, > > > > but still, i > > > > love the kashmiri way of life, which is its > > own... not like > > > > Iraqi, or > > > > Punjabi, Sindhi etc... > > > > > > > > so, to weave the Kashmir discourse with the > > Kashmir > > > > culture  will > > > > perhaps salvage the psyche of Kashmiri youth > who > > are really > > > > hurt by > > > > the violence unleashed by all agencies... > > > > > > > > Kashmir discourse is beyond vengeance of > recent > > innocent > > > > killings, even. . > > > > > > > > shall keep on thinking myself..... > > > > > > > > love > > > > is > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Bipin > Trivedi > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate your attitude towards > Pandits > > and so many > > > > are their like you in Kashmir but could not > dare > > to come out > > > > fearing of militants or separatists. If > everyone > > thinks like > > > > that in Kashmir there want be any problem > and > > Kashmir will > > > > be on the right track. Thanks accepting > about the > > beginning > > > > of Pak sponsored gun culture for which you > give > > reason > > > > rigging of election. However, the tense > situation > > initiated > > > > by Pak will be there even if election > rigging was > > not there. > > > > So at one place it is proved that Pak with > the > > help of few > > > > local Kashmiri played key role to push out > > Kashmiri Pandit > > > > from valley. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > > > > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > > > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 > 12:25 AM > > > > > To: reader-list > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gowhar > Geelani > > calling for > > > > the Return of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir > in > > 'Greater > > > > Kashmir' > > > > > > > > > > Thanks dear Shuddha for this wonderful > > forward > > > > > > > > > > Lot of people on the list have this > > impression that > > > > all the Muslims in > > > > > the valley think that Pandits left the > > valley on their > > > > own, or > > > > > Jagmohan convinced them so..... > > > > > > > > > > But that is  not the fact. Majority > of > > Muslims in > > > > valley miss Pandits, > > > > > and want their return to kashmir. Both > the > > communities > > > > love each > > > > > others simplicity and want to restore > that > > > > co-existence in the valley. > > > > > > > > > > It was in 1986 that congress J&K > Chief > > Mufi Mohd > > > > Syed thought to > > > > > outwit the NC-Congress alliance by > > instigating > > > > communal riots.  The > > > > > subsequent rigging of elections ensured > the > > beginning > > > > of Pakistan > > > > > sponsored Gun culture, which > automatically > > pushed out > > > > Pandits from > > > > > Valley. Qazi Nissar was MUF canditate > ( > > killed by > > > > militants later ) > > > > > who never said a word against Pandits > in > > his > > > > lectures. > > > > > > > > > > When passion for Azadi was really at > peak, > > that time > > > > even, neighbors > > > > > helped Pandits to move out safely. But > now > > when lot of > > > > Muslims > > > > > brothers have suffered,( first by > securities > > excess > > > > then by rogue > > > > > militans, then by both, and now by SOG > and > > all that... > > > > ) sincerely > > > > > want Pandits back in their homes. That > is > > my > > > > feeling... > > > > > > > > > > But the problem with Pandit leadership > is > > that they > > > > have different > > > > > priorities: one of them is extreme love > for > > Indian > > > > Nationalism,  its > > > > > Tricolour etc, which is not a sin, but > in > > Kashmir it > > > > complicates the > > > > > problems, since Kashmir is a conflict > zone > > between > > > > differnt parties. > > > > > But  the bonds between Kashmiri > Muslims > > and Kashmiri > > > > Pandits is based > > > > > on shared cultural heritage, music > > food,  simplicity > > > > and above all > > > > > language, and not because of some > conflict. > > > > > > > > > > So, Pandit communty need to decide what > is > > good for > > > > them . My humble > > > > > suggestion is that both the communities > need > > more > > > > visibility through > > > > > multiple interactive cultural > sessions  > > .... > > > > > > > > > > I dont see any political role for > Kashmiri > > Pandits to > > > > play in Kashmir > > > > > or outside. The number game is quite > vital > > in any > > > > democratic form of > > > > > politics, as we know, and Kashmiri > pandits > > are very > > > > few, that too > > > > > scattered all over the country. > > > > > > > > > > The interaction is already happening at > a > > very > > > > personal level. There > > > > > are exchanges and friendly  meetings > > even during this > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > Both the communities are nostalgic > about > > their past, > > > > one can only wish > > > > > a happy new beginning between the > two.. > > > > > > > > > > with love > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM, > > Shuddhabrata > > > > Sengupta > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> Dear All, > > > > >> > > > > >> Here is a forthright and moving > piece by > > Gowhar > > > > Geelani in today's Greater > > > > >> Kashmir newspaper. Notice how he > takes > > 'personal > > > > responsibility'. And how he > > > > >> talks about the value of repeated > > entreaties. > > > >  Hope it will be of interest > > > > >> to all. > > > > >> > > > > >> best > > > > >> > > > > >> Shuddha > > > > >> > > > > >> > ----------------------------------- > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Come home,  Come soon : On the > > hoped for return > > > > of Kashmiri Pandits to > > > > >> Kashmir > > > > >> > > > > >> Gowhar Geelani - Greater Kashmir, > 22 > > September > > > > 2010 > > > > >> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Sep/22/return-of-kps-34.asp > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I vividly remember my favourite > school > > teacher Ms. > > > > Anita. As her name would > > > > >> suggest she was a Kashmiri Pandit. > She > > was my > > > > form-teacher at school. I > > > > >> remember my others Pandit teachers > too. > > Mrs Bharti > > > > Koul, Teja Ma'am and Usha > > > > >> Ma'am. I owe a lot to all of them > for > > what I'm > > > > today. I remember how Anita > > > > >> Ma'am would ensure that I secured > first > > position > > > > in my class. I also > > > > >> remember how Teja Ma'am would want > me to > > be the > > > > best of the lot! I remember > > > > >> everything. > > > > >> > > > > >> Those were beautiful and peaceful > days > > in our > > > > Kashmir, full of sweet > > > > >> memories. Muslims, Pandits and > Sikhs > > studying in > > > > the same school, playing > > > > >> together in playgrounds, sharing > their > > lunches, > > > > attending marriage > > > > >> functions, birthday parties, > offering > > condolences > > > > when someone in the > > > > >> neighbourhood died, sympathizing > with > > each other > > > > and even engaging in > > > > >> smaller verbal brawls as friends > > normally do. > > > > >> > > > > >> 'Music of bullets replaced school > > bells' > > > > >> Then, all of a sudden, > tranquillity > > vanished in > > > > thin air. Peace didn't stay, > > > > >> it was blown away into pieces. My > > beautiful > > > > memories in 'Angels Public > > > > >> School, 'Abhay Public School', > 'Light > > Public > > > > School' and 'Shaheen Public > > > > >> School' in Srinagar soon started > turning > > into > > > > nightmares. > > > > >> > > > > >> The huge paintings of greats like > Dr. > > Allama > > > > Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and > > > > >> Rabindra Nath Tagore hanging on > the > > walls of my > > > > school were now being hit by > > > > >> stray bullets on a regular basis. > Music > > of bullets > > > > replaced the 'recess' and > > > > >> 'period' bells in my school. > > > > >> > > > > >> 'My beautiful garden isn't > attractive > > anymore' > > > > >> Life was not the same again after > 1989. > > Everything > > > > changed, dramatically. I > > > > >> remember everything. How Indian > > troopers > > > > humiliated my elderly people, day > > > > >> in and day out; how they slapped > me > > after on their > > > > directions (read orders) > > > > >> I'd read a poster of a popular > militant > > outfit > > > > pasted on an electric pole in > > > > >> our locality; how they stared at > me, > > abused, > > > > hurled choicest invectives and > > > > >> threatened me while walking on my > > streets for no > > > > fault of mine; how they > > > > >> made me to bend on my knees and > walk on > > my elbows > > > > on an undeclared curfew > > > > >> day, when I and my other classmates > were > > to appear > > > > in class 10th papers at > > > > >> Bemina Degree College, Srinagar. It > all > > happened > > > > in early years of 1990's. > > > > >> The memories of their abuses and > slaps > > haunt me, > > > > still. > > > > >> > > > > >> I remember the Army crackdowns, > > operation 'Catch > > > > and Kill', the firing > > > > >> incidents, cross-firing incidents, > > grenade blasts, > > > > mine blasts, encounters, > > > > >> massive anti-India protest > > demonstrations, slogans > > > > for freedom from India, > > > > >> slogans in favour of militants, > even > > some slogans > > > > against Pandit brethren. > > > > >> > > > > >> And I also do remember Pandits > leaving > > from my > > > > Valley. That was a painful > > > > >> memory.Many blame Mr. Jagmohan, the > then > > notorious > > > > Governor of the > > > > >> strife-ridden Jammu and Kashmir for > the > > exodus of > > > > Kashmiri Pandits. > > > > >> But, I will blame myself > > > > >> Yes, I know I was a school-going > boy at > > that time, > > > > not influential enough to > > > > >> be responsible for their migration > or to > > prevent > > > > their exodus; but I still > > > > >> blame myself. I strongly feel and > > believe that we, > > > > as a proud Kashmiri > > > > >> nation, should have prevented > their > > exodus. Yes, > > > > it may be my idealism. Yes, > > > > >> I know those were not ideal times. > > > > >> > > > > >> Who's responsible for this? > > > > >> Today, there are television debates > on > > Indian > > > > media about 'Kashmiriyat'. > > > > >> Who's responsible for the exodus > of > > Pandits? We've > > > > too many answers coming. > > > > >> Many Pandits blame their own > Muslim > > brethren, some > > > > blame militants and > > > > >> pro-freedom forces active in > Kashmir, > > yet others > > > > blame the unfortunate > > > > >> circumstances of 1989. Many > Muslims > > blame former > > > > Governor Mr. Jagmohan, > > > > >> others say Pandits shouldn't have > left > > Kashmir > > > > while few others maintain > > > > >> that what happened was unfortunate > and > > should > > > > never have actually happened, > > > > >> but the migration could not have > been > > avoided > > > > during those hard times. > > > > >> > > > > >> I've a different take on the issue. > I > > believe that > > > > I'm responsible for the > > > > >> exodus of Pandits. I believe > Muslim > > community of > > > > Kashmir as a whole is > > > > >> responsible for the migration of > > Pandits. I also > > > > believe that Pandits too > > > > >> are responsible for their > migration. For > > the > > > > simple reason that together we > > > > >> shared beautiful history of > elegant > > bonds, > > > > exemplary friendships and > > > > >> harmony, and we, as a great > Kashmiri > > nation, > > > > should have never allowed the > > > > >> circumstances dictate our > decisions, our > > lives, > > > > our history; and above all > > > > >> our great cultural bonds! But they > did. > > > > >> > > > > >> Was it possible? > > > > >> Though in my previous articles I > may > > have pointed > > > > fingers at the politics of > > > > >> Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the chairman > of a > > faction of > > > > pro-freedom alliance > > > > >> Hurriyat Conference and another > leader > > Sajad Gani > > > > Lone, but here I must > > > > >> shower praises on both of them. > Mirwaiz > > Umar lost > > > > his father, Mirwiaz Molvi > > > > >> Farooq to bullets on 21st May, > 199o; > > while as Lone > > > > brothers lost their > > > > >> father, Abdul Gani Lone to bullets > on > > the twelfth > > > > death anniversary of Molvi > > > > >> Farooq; 21st May, 2002. Mirwaiz > Umar, > > Sajad Lone > > > > and Bilal Lone too had an > > > > >> option to leave Kashmir and get > settled > > down > > > > abroad, far away from hell in > > > > >> Kashmir; but they didn't, instead > chose > > to face > > > > the challenges the > > > > >> circumstances had thrown before > them. > > Kudos to > > > > them! > > > > >> > > > > >> Leave these brave leaders aside for > a > > moment. > > > > During late 1990's my mother > > > > >> was seriously wounded when > militants > > hurled a > > > > grenade towards a bunker of > > > > >> Indian troopers at Safakadal, > Srinagar. > > The > > > > grenade missed the intended > > > > >> target, as would quite often > happen > > during those > > > > days, and thus like many > > > > >> other pedestrians; serious injuries > were > > inflicted > > > > on my mother too. Her > > > > >> left foot was badly wounded and it > took > > almost > > > > four years to heal, though > > > > >> not permanently. Our family did > not > > leave Kashmir. > > > > We too had the option. > > > > >> Because my father had his shawl > business > > running > > > > successfully in Kolkata > > > > >> since almost three decades. > > > > >> > > > > >> Should Pandits too have braved the > 'come > > what may' > > > > and avoided leaving > > > > >> Kashmir, our beloved motherland? > Well, > > debatable. > > > > May be it wasn't possible. > > > > >> Or, may be it was. Perhaps yes, > perhaps > > no! > > > > >> > > > > >> 'Life hasn't been easy' > > > > >> Life hasn't been the same for > Pandits > > after > > > > migration. It hasn't been easy > > > > >> for them in the migrant camps of > Jammu > > or in > > > > different parts of India. > > > > >> Sameer Bhat, my former colleague > at > > Eenadu > > > > Television in Hyderabad, India in > > > > >> 2003-04, would often narrate the > painful > > stories > > > > of migration. Sameer, his > > > > >> wife, ailing mother and kids would > bear > > the > > > > scorching heat of Jammu while > > > > >> sitting in a temporary shed that > > consisted of only > > > > one-room. His stories > > > > >> were very moving and would often > leave a > > pang in > > > > my heart. Like hundreds of > > > > >> other Pandit families, his family > too > > had left > > > > Kashmir in early 1990's. A > > > > >> close Pandit friend of my father > in > > Rainawari, > > > > Srinagar, too had to leave > > > > >> Kashmir alongwith his entire > family. > > Their house > > > > was burnt down and reduced > > > > >> to ashes. This friend of my father > also > > used to > > > > buy shawls from us. At the > > > > >> time of migration he owed us a lot > of > > money, the > > > > cheque he had given to my > > > > >> father bounced. After apologizing > he > > promised to > > > > repay every single penny in > > > > >> installments once he settled down > in > > Kolkata. My > > > > father offered all possible > > > > >> help and said to the family that > they > > need not to > > > > pay our money back, > > > > >> because we understood what they had > gone > > through. > > > > But, as an honest > > > > >> businessman he kept his word, his > > promise; and > > > > repaid all due amount in > > > > >> smaller installments in the > following > > years. That > > > > is Pandit pride! My > > > > >> father's friend kept the > friendship > > going, his > > > > Pandit pride alive and with > > > > >> it the reputation of an honest > trader > > too. > > > > >> > > > > >> 'Burden of unique expectations' > > > > >> Kashmir is a special place having > its > > unique > > > > history. During our marriage > > > > >> ceremonies we extend invitation to > > guests in a way > > > > that is unique. It is > > > > >> unparalleled. No where else in the > > world > > > > invitation is extended or expected > > > > >> like as in Kashmir. Even in this > age of > > facebook > > > > and twitter; an information > > > > >> and technology age, particular > members > > of a > > > > Kashmiri family- that has fixed > > > > >> marriage of a son or a daughter- > go > > personally to > > > > homes of their close > > > > >> relatives, friends and neighbours > to > > extend an > > > > invitation. Then, some > > > > >> two-three weeks before the marriage > an > > invitation > > > > card is sent; as the > > > > >> marriage date comes closer several > > telephonic > > > > calls are made, and then a > > > > >> final call too. At times, even this > may > > not be > > > > enough and that is perhaps > > > > >> why many relatives or friends > throw > > their tantrums > > > > during marriage > > > > >> ceremonies; you may call it an > > attention-seeking > > > > tactics! > > > > >> > > > > >> If all relatives, neighbours and > friends > > come and > > > > attend the marriage > > > > >> ceremony, it is considered a > miracle! If > > all of > > > > them do not come, no one is > > > > >> surprised! That is Kashmir. It is > not > > that > > > > Kashmiri Pandits or Kashmiri > > > > >> Muslims are at war with each other > after > > 1989. It > > > > is the result of their > > > > >> great and unique tradition and > history > > that > > > > they've such huge expectations > > > > >> from each other. As a matter of > fact, > > they're not > > > > blaming or accusing each > > > > >> other, instead throwing tantrums, > > seeking > > > > attention and expecting a lot! > > > > >> > > > > >> To me what actually Pandits are > asking > > is this:"If > > > > we left Kashmir, why > > > > >> didn't you call us back? Are merely > one > > or two > > > > calls enough? Shouldn't you > > > > >> be doing more and calling us back > and > > receiving us > > > > with open arms?" And > > > > >> Muslims are replying:"Why did you > leave > > us when > > > > things were tough here, you > > > > >> shouldn't have left us alone in > the > > first place? > > > > Shouldn't you've faced the > > > > >> challenges of the circumstances > like we > > did? > > > > Shouldn't you have stayed and > > > > >> never gone? > > > > >> > > > > >> Both actually expect a lot from > each > > other! There > > > > is no communal disharmony > > > > >> in Kashmir. Only circumstances > have > > been > > > > challenging and the going has been > > > > >> hard and tough. The movement for > freedom > > in > > > > Kashmir is not against Kashmiri > > > > >> Pandits or Sikhs, it is not against > the > > Indian > > > > people, it is against the > > > > >> Indian state and its wicked > > state-craft. > > > > >> Today, I once again extend an > invitation > > to all of > > > > them. Please come back. > > > > >> 'Walev Yeyev Wapas'! > > > > >> > > > > >> (Gowhar Geelani is a Kashmiri > journalist > > based in > > > > Bonn, Germany since 2006, > > > > >> where he works for Deutsche Welle > [Voice > > of > > > > Germany] as an Editor. > > > > >> gowhargeelani at gmail.com) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > > >> Raqs Media Collective > > > > >> shuddha at sarai.net > > > > >> www.sarai.net > > > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion > list on > > media and > > > > the city. > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe > > > > >> in the subject header. > > > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list > on > > media and the > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > the > > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 18:47:55 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 18:47:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic roots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Lalit well, you repeat you see every body in Kashmir is Anti-Indian, including those who have political alliances PDP and NC are two who use congress and vice versa even BJP is happy to have a political link with them. so what is your politics, if you are giving clean chit to GOI at every debate then we have a very abstract situation, at one level you want every body Indian in Kashmir, and if those who unfurl the tricolour there, too are not trustworthy, then who is there, and to whom do you intend to speak and those who ( GOI) speak to them are unlikely to grant you a isolated space ( panun Kashmir ). Who is the third agency whom you will approach. Only UNO my question about restoring the cultural link between the two is almost lost, unfortunately we have lot of people ( both KP and KM) who dont want to touch anything about culture, just naked politics, which is like male chauvinism at its best. if you remember my performance at Arpana Gallery, which you happened to becasue of that na ches be tati ne yati http://indersalim.livejournal.com/56394.html my best of hugs love is On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Dear Inder, > > > > I would have appreciated if you had just listed out ‘lies’ from my ‘long’ > reply as also the ‘points’ that you think you had raised & got ignored. I > have only attempted to draw a picture in response to your long list of > queries & it did require ‘detailing’ that you have described as ‘not asked > for’. You can choose to ignore the facts that you wouldn’t like to know. > > > > I would prefer not to digress from this interesting dialogue by letting > attention deflect to individuals like Madhu Kishwar whose ‘concern’ for > Kashmiris seems to be limited to her strong support for PDP & its ‘self > rule’. That also brings me to your reference to Mr. Beg’s supposed disgust > at “Nehru memorial” over GOI’s ‘no action’ against the ‘butcher of Kashmir > Pandits’. > > Dear, it has become a ritual to make a cursory reference to the atrocities > committed on Kashmiri Hindu Pandits to fool the ‘secular’ audiences. What > Mr. Beg did not say is more interesting though it bothers none, that this > ‘butcher of Kashmir Pandits’ was allowed a public reception with traditional > ‘wanwoon’ & ‘shirin’ on his release during the period when his PDP was in > power &  Mr. Beg was the Deputy Chief Minister of the state. Again, > interestingly, Mr. Beg did not comment on the death & destruction that JKLF > terror group brought on the people of Kashmir—he couldn’t have dared do that > in the presence of  the terror commander of the terror group at the venue. > >  No, I did not remain mum, it is only that my voice got lost in the ‘let us > speak the language of love’ noise. It is a strange phenomenon that the media > & the civil society in general get so unnerved on hearing the woes of > Kashmiri Pandits. Kashmiri Pandits were repeatedly interrupted to prevent > them speak about the atrocities committed against them. I was nearly forced > in to silence in the first half of the seminar (hope you remember what I > said then…that should take care of your query about my opinion about Mufti > Sayad & his PDP…..who has been the Home Minister of India & is now hoping to > see Pakistani flag hoisted over the secretariat in Srinagar as per his ‘self > rule’ that envisages joint sovereignty over Kashmir….).By the way that was > the mother of all seminars. It was a brazen attempt to mobilise Muslims of > the whole of J&K state on political lines on one platform. > > > > Yes, Kashmir has suffered on account of the ‘great game’. It still is, only > the pan- Islamic fervour dictates the agenda now & Kashmiri masses are being > used as canon fodder ironically at the hands of their ‘own’. > > > > Justifying Sheikh Abdullah’s demand for independent nationhood for Jammu & > Kashmir that legally acceded to India would amount to negation of the > independence of India, formation of the Union of India as well as the very > creation of Pakistan. Please revisit historical records…..Lahore Treaty etc. > Reversal of history will lead to chaos all over the world…many countries > will actually loose their legitimacy. > > > >  Let us not obfuscate the issue by bringing in Nepal & Bhutan. > > > > In any case Please remember Sheikh Abdullah’s call ‘hamlawar khabardar, ham > kashmiri hain tayyar’ against the Pakistani marauders was reciprocated by > equal response from all Kashmiris across faiths. And there were many more > unsung heroes like Maqbool Sherwani who saved Kashmir from falling to > Islamic Pakistan then. > > > > It is the aspiration for an independent ‘Sheikhdom’ that has lead to Kashmir > to present crisis. Same Sheikh Abdullah reconciled latter & went in for a > pact with Indra Gandhi & the same Kashmiris lit bonfires across Kashmir to > celebrate the accord. > > > > One of the most important roads in the heart of New Delhi is named after > Aurangzeb, who is detested by most Indians, therefore let us not get in to > this politics. A Kashmiri Muslim like any other Indian has every right & > every opportunity to occupy any position in this country. > > > > Your continued attempts to  invent so called ‘reasons’ to justify ethnic > cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits   smack of  some  deep rooted prejudice > & hatred  against the Kashmiri Pandits. Your contention that Kashmiri > Pandits were happy with good jobs in Delhi is malicious & motivated. What > about Kashmiri Muslims who have flourishing businesses in Delhi & across > India? The fact remains that  Kashmir Pandits stayed put in Kashmir till > their ethnic cleansing in 1989-90.In any case, the miniscule minority spread > over the whole of the valley even in ones & twos in certain > villages/mohallas never mattered in electoral terms .You won’t deny that it > is the Kashmiri Muslims who control politics in not only in Kashmir but in > Jammu too. Why pick on poor Kashmiri Pandits & condemn them if they ever > made a choice? Many known Hindu Pandit politicians were part of NC anyway. > You are wrong in your premise that Kashmiri Pandits ought to have > surrendered their liberty & dignity to the Kashmiri Muslim majority. > > > > Please do not undermine human feelings of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. All of us > cherish the pleasant memories of the past. Most of us still maintain ties > with our erstwhile neighbours, college/ school mates. But we do not use our > sentiments for ‘propaganda’ purposes. There are many amongst us who hold no > less affection than Inder Salim for the  Kashmiri Muslims but it will be > very naïve on your part to expect us to have any regard for the proponents > of ‘azadi- bara-e-Islam’ & their cohorts responsible  for bringing  death & > destruction to ‘us’- the Kashmiris. There are scars that could heal possibly > once we return back to the land of our ancestors, on our political terms. > > > > Rgds > > LA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:59:46 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan Islamic >> roots >> >> Well dear Lalit >> you ignored many points which i raised, and added which i didnt >> >> anyways, it interest me a lot.because on both sides lies accumulate >> and what we have is a huge written volume of words which does not help >> either of the parties. >> >> However, the reality on the ground is that Kashmir is burning, and >> many innocent youths died, some for throwing stones, some not for >> pelting even. There is a huge number of protest against this excessive >> police force, and one of them respected Madhu Kishwar, and i dont >> think you will label her also anti democracy. >> >> Kashmir issue is not Indian game alone, it is an international game, >> in which kashmiris are only paying with their lives, first it was >> Kashmiri pandits then kashmiri muslims, then sikhs, then muslims.... >> you will not deny this fact, right. >> >> The game was started by India itself. you are constantly talking about >> Azadi bare islam ( whatever that means ) was not the the actual >> intention of Sheikh Mohd Abdullah. He was a very good muslim who named >> his son Farooq ( Farooq the Great, was the most powerful of the four >> Rashidun Caliphs ) but he welcomed Jinnah with a garland of shoes. >> >> Sheikh was right in demanding a separate nation for Jammu and >> Kashmir. Here, i think of Nepal or Bhutan which were not parts Indian >> union under British Rule, by your logic too, should have been annexed >> to India , but that did not happen, it did happen in kashmir because >> Sheikh sincerely approached Nehru to support. >> >> The rest is history. Sheikh was humiliated by India, and then by his >> own people. What a tragic hero, who will be judged by history more by >> his role as CM rather than his true being. He protected Hindus, where >> both Gandhi and Jinnah failed. He had a vision which none had that >> time. What happened to that vision. Have you ever heard Sheikh being >> discussed here in Delhi. Is there a single road in his name. Even a >> petty politican called Rajesh pilot has. India has always insulted the >> sensibility of kashmirs. KPs on the other hand were content with good >> job in Delhi after 1947. >> >> Kashmiri Pandits were loyal subject of the King Hari singh, and when >> that game ended they found orphaned, KPs should have been quick to >> embrace the vision of Sheikh but instead thought of Congress in Delhi, >> >> So,. it turned out that when Pakistan decided to repeat partition in >> kashmir, there was no Sheikh this time, no one to give a stren warning >> like he did in 47. and they had to move out. You should remember that >> when Sheikh punished Jamat-islami villages in kashmir after Zulikar >> Bhutto's hanging. But KPs never understood Sheikh, instead they always >> voted the corrupt cograesswala in the valley. The same Mufti syed who >> instigated communal violence in 1986. what is your take on that ? He >> was indian then, and you still have nothing against him, in comparison >> to SAS Geelani, that is how KPs think. >> >> it was the same congress and wooden headed Farooq whose lust for the >> power ousted KPs from the valley. On the contratry, it was Sr. PDP >> leader mr. Beg at Nehru memorial when he pointed out why Govt of India >> has never initiated action against Bitte Karate, why were you mum >> there ? GoI has different priorities, as i already pointed out, but >> you ignore them, even when you know that they were always against you >> in the valley, and even now. >> >> No wonder that religious voices are more louder in kashmir, since >> Indian policy makers thought it fitting to humiliate the secular >> sheikh and others of such nature. >> >> Well, you are free to write another long letter, in response to this, >> perhaps, aimed to highlight that how all the world muslims are united >> against Kafirs in the valley, but it is not so. >> >> i have faith in the some earlier bonds, much earlier than our recent >> beliefs artificially planted in us. >> >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Lalit Ambardar >> wrote: >> > Dear Inder, >> > >> > >> > >> > I can understand this ‘Jagmohan’ fixation with the post 1989-90 Kashmir >> > watchers whose opinion seems to be more influenced by the separatists’ >> > propaganda than the ground realities that existed then in the valley. >> > >> > I appreciate your candid admission that the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri >> > Hindu Pandits was indeed planned by the Kashmiri pan Islamists & I think >> > this should enlighten & correct the perceptions of many on this forum >> > who >> > regard the propaganda that emanates from the Kashmiri Islamists’ >> > quarters as >> > Gospel truth. >> > >> > >> > >> > About the failure of the state to protect the hapless minority of >> > Kashmiri >> > Hindu Pandits against the jihadists onslaught less said the better. I >> > don’t >> > know if you are aware Kashmiri Pandits have been demanding a commission >> > to >> > enquire in to the circumstances that lead to their mass exodus. The >> > Govt. >> > instead appointed BG Varghese to report on the state of temples left >> > behind >> > in the valley who obviously produced a document that said all was well >> > even >> > while the traumatised Kshmiri Pandit refugees were struggling for basic >> > shelter in Jammu, Delhi & other places. >> > >> > >> > >> >  If you recall, when Farooq Abdullah resigned abdicating his >> > responsibilities & leaving the Kashmiri masses at the mercy of AK47 >> > wielding >> > Kashmiri jihadists who paraded wearing symbolic shrouds & holy >> > inscription >> > laden head bands openly in the streets of Kashmir, the police was left >> > demoralised & was seen even saluting the jihadi marauders . Selectively >> > killing of Kashmir Pandits had become order of the day. Do you really >> > believe that in an anarchic situation that prevailed then, the Governor >> > could have mobilised so much logistics across the length & breadth of >> > Kashmir valley in such a hostile environment to facilitate exodus of >> > Pandits. >> > >> > Dear Inder, it is not easy to leave your home & hearth just because some >> > one >> > wants you to do that. >> > >> > I mentioned in the last mail that Kashmir could witness more of death & >> > destruction in coming days (it is not so difficult to guess that from >> > the >> > pattern of all jihadi movements worldwide & in our neighbourhood in >> > particular) & that will lead to exodus, this time possibly of Kashmir >> > Muslims (as the reports suggest the process has already begun) & sure >> > you >> > will still hold someone else responsible & not the proponents of ‘azadi- >> > bara –e- Islam’. >> > >> > >> > >> > About the Kashmiri Muslims in general I have already expressed my >> > opinion in >> > my last post. >> > >> > And about preservation of Kashmir culture-that we are trying our best >> > even >> > in exile & will once back home on our political agenda, I assure you our >> > culture –Kashmiri culture which has been the target of Islamists will >> > flourish & you will feel proud. >> > >> > >> > >> > You had mentioned that when ‘Nizame Mustafa in Kashmir’ slogans were >> > raised >> > at Jantar Mantar, a ‘Bindi’ supporting sympathiser of the separatists >> > was >> > ‘taken aback’ & it was only following your goading that she calmed down >> > & >> > stayed on. I wish I could know her ‘reaction’ if she were to learn about >> > the >> > trauma that Kashmiri Hindu Pandit women who had in any case stopped >> > wearing >> > the ‘bindi’ for the fear of backlash were subjected to when even more >> > dreadful slogans like ‘we want Pakistan, along with the Hindu Pandit >> > women & >> > without the Pandit men folk’ blurted from the loudspeakers of holy >> > mosques >> > in Kashmir. I wish some one would have told her how Kashmiri Pandit >> > women >> > were raped & then cut on the saw machines. I wish some one would have >> > told >> > her how BK Ganjoo was riddled with automatic gun fire right in front of >> > his >> > wife,  inside a rice drum wherein  he had concealed himself (in the >> > attic of >> > his house) & how the jihadists told her to live on to cry for her dead >> > husband when she begged to be killed too along with her two >> > daughters……..I >> > don’t know if this lady sympathiser of separatists would have waited for >> > a >> > ‘curfew pass’ from the Governor to flee for her safety had she been >> > amidst >> > the mayhem in Kashmir then. >> > >> > >> > >> > Nit picking on Governor’s role can go on. We used to have a tradition in >> > Kashmir that meat shops did not generally open on Tuesdays. But >> > radicalisation took a heavy toll on Kashmiriyat & there was an even >> > attempt >> > to slaughter a cow on Ashtami in Anantnag when the seeds of >> > indoctrination >> > were being sown across Kashmir. >> > >> > >> > >> > Your argument that since elections were ‘rigged’, hence Kashmiri Pandits >> > were targeted suggesting that Kashmiri Pandits deserved to be targeted >> > sounds preposterous. I have no reason to doubt your understanding of >> > events >> > but if this is the impression that you have gathered from your ‘friends’ >> > in >> > Kashmir, it only strengthens the point that Kashmir Hindus fell prey to >> > a >> > diabolic plan to cleanse the valley of Hindu Pandits. It reminds of the >> > hate >> > campaign against the Jews before holocaust. >> > >> > >> > >> > Your seemingly  ‘benign’ act of  throwing  a paper ball towards  the >> > parliament of India ( as per your account) in the presence of the >> > parliament >> > attack  accused ,(now  out only on technical grounds) & those who in any >> > case do not believe in democracy certainly amounts to undermining  of >> > democracy. >> > >> > >> > >> > Why should you be so concerned d about the names being given to the >> > patriarch of ‘azadi- bara- e -Islam who has the audacity to justify >> > martyrdom of common Kashmiris quoting holy verses; who instigates in the >> > name of religion, children of others (not his own, yes) to die for a >> > cause >> > that they don’t understand; who patronises antichrists who are not only >> > religious bigots but racists too… “Kala kuta…. thu thu”…. “Gai tumhari >> > mata >> > hai, hum usko khata hai”……. are some of the racist slogans in vogue to >> > provoke the security personnel. By the way many Kashmiri >> > >> >  Muslims fed up with the ‘azadi’ seekers back home prefer to call him >> > ‘budae’ with no reverence, of course. >> > >> > Rgds >> > >> > LA >> > >> > >> >> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:23:58 +0530 >> >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan >> >> Islamic >> >> roots >> >> >> >> Thanks dear Lalit >> >> >> >> i repeat: >> >> about KP migration >> >> Why Govt of India failed to notice that KP are under attack. from >> >> reliable sources i am saying it that the idea of KP to be pushed out >> >> of valley was discussed by pro-pak militants in early 88-89, and was >> >> duly conveyed to intelligence in Delhi. They never acted, which makes >> >> them a party to their agenda of KP migration. May be Govt of India >> >> thought that migration of KP is in the interest of India. i dont whom, >> >> or what... you can not convince me at this point....why it was >> >> allowed to happen.. Jagmohan who is a known RSS man in Delhi was >> >> appointed to ensure that... i dont know why he was there in the first >> >> place.... imposing ban on killing goats on ashtamis i Kashmir was >> >> something which makes me laugh, but he is not stupid, may be he was >> >> briefed to issue an order like that... >> >> >> >> about Govt role >> >> KP migration also happened because there was open rigging by >> >> NC-Congress in pre 90 elections? it was fraud committed by Rajiv >> >> Gandhi and Farooq Abdullah. I dont know in which sense they are >> >> friends of India. and why they denied a chance to MUF to rule the >> >> state is beyond my comprehension., if you are ready to forgive them, >> >> you can do..but there are many who are not read for that gift to >> >> them... since they are robbers, with clean hands.. >> >> >> >> about my action at Jantar Mantar: >> >> you will not believe, how ugly it was to see the KP brothers saying >> >> Geelani Hoon hai hai. etc.......in opposition to the protest organized >> >> by Kalpana Tickoo. >> >> My little action on the other hand was not to boost the stone pelting, >> >> but actually transformed the stone into paper, which was creative, >> >> which was about pushing non-violent forms of protest in the valley, >> >> unlike saying Geelini Hoon, which is nothing but provoking the stone >> >> pelters to pick up the Gun. May be you see it differently, i have >> >> very little to say about RSS minded politics of RIK. Do you think >> >> that recent killings in Kashmir were avoidable? do you blame UA for >> >> his role in shopian and then these killings..i see he is most hated >> >> man in the valley right now.... and he must have resigned... but Rahul >> >> Baba has given him the green signal.... so we have a situation similar >> >> to 1989... History repeats, first as tragedy then as farce..., but >> >> remember farce is more tragic than ....- >> >> >> >> about exodus >> >> >> >> KP have given the impression that they are quite happy outside >> >> Kashmir, and so what is the fuss.... you dont want any cultural >> >> restoration in valley, and you dismiss the entire valley as >> >> pro-pakistani pro geelani and anti -KP minded, then it is hopeless to >> >> think about return... how can you you live in a society which is >> >> against your very presence, so what is this noise of dream to return. >> >> ( idea of Panun Kashmir suits Indian agenda is not in any way serving >> >> the basic interest of KPs ) the best thing for KP was to discover >> >> right links in the valley, there are thousands who love us there, who >> >> love temples, who love our festivals, but KPs are only interested in >> >> politics which is unfortunately not functional. Govt of India does not >> >> need you, Home minister needs the smile of Geelani sahib, not yours, >> >> Your bond with nation is well recognized...so >> >> >> >> abut my waste of time: yes i dont have any material gain from writing >> >> all this, i want some saner sound to see the reason... sentimentality >> >> is not serving any good to KP community. >> >> but it is your choice.... Govt of India has certainly different >> >> priorities, you can criticize them, but will they listen to you... to >> >> dismiss the entire valley against music, poetry, art, theatre is quite >> >> not right.... i go there, and the fact is there is a deeper urge to >> >> start all over again...and it is here KP can join the idea...but..... >> >> >> >> well, i think you are quite involved with the political thinking of >> >> Kashmir >> >> but i feel we should give space to some music ( creativity ) to speak >> >> also >> >> >> >> what do you think >> >> >> >> love >> >> is >> >> >> >> .. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Lalit Ambardar >> >> wrote: >> >> > Dear Inder, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >  I am glad that you unlike many others on this forum who continue to >> >> > wear >> >> > wool over their eyes & refuse to acknowledge that the Kashmiri >> >> > secessionist >> >> > movement is indeed pan Islamism driven & that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits >> >> > were >> >> > indeed subjected to a systematic ethnic cleansing in the valley, have >> >> > at >> >> > least dared to respond to the ‘post’ even if not in outright >> >> > agreement. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It is appreciable that you at least admit that Kashmiri Hindu Pandits >> >> > ‘had >> >> > to leave’ because there was a ‘genuine threat’ to their ‘life’ & >> >> > ‘dignity’ >> >> > in the wake of the killing of ‘many innocent’ Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. >> >> > Just >> >> > to add to that, it wasn’t mere ‘killings’ but the brutality with >> >> > which >> >> > the >> >> > killings were executed as per a systematically worked out diabolic >> >> > plan >> >> > to >> >> > unleash ethnic cleansing in Kashmir that forced the hapless community >> >> > to >> >> > abandon their homes & hearths. This ‘Jagmohan’ factor used by the >> >> > separatists & their propagandists/sympathisers alike to hide their >> >> > shame >> >> > only belittles your concern which I would want to believe is genuine. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > First thing first- I think it is utterly outrageous to even insinuate >> >> > that >> >> > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are ‘fond’ of speaking about their exodus >> >> > whenever >> >> > there is an opportunity. You would agree that as the first victims of >> >> > jihadi >> >> > terror since its advent on Indian soil, Kashmiri Pandits can not be >> >> > deprived >> >> > of their basic right  to ‘speak’ about their brutal  ‘exodus’ however >> >> > uncomforting it may sound to the self acclaimed secular liberals. >> >> > >> >> >  Dear, why should you mind even that? After all, you did not mind >> >> > giving >> >> > that self-glorified performance to boost the moral of the Kashmiri >> >> > Muslim >> >> > ‘stone pelters’ & their sympathisers who had the audacity to rant >> >> > ‘azadi’/’ >> >> > ‘nizame Mustafa’ slogans in Kashmir at Jantar Mantra recently. It is >> >> > unfair >> >> > on your part to be constantly critical of Kashmiri Pandits rendered >> >> > refugees >> >> > in their own country. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > As for your comments on the other members on this forum, I am sure >> >> > they >> >> > would respond to you appropriately. But personally, I would prefer to >> >> > avoid >> >> > any discussion on the statements, even if  provocative in nature, by >> >> > the >> >> > members of the minorities who chose to stay back for what ever >> >> > reasons & >> >> > I >> >> > would request not to rake up the issue lest you jeopardise their >> >> > security. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Please do not forget that there is a standing fatwa from the >> >> > patriarch >> >> > of >> >> > ‘azadi- bara- e- Islam’ on Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that they can only >> >> > return >> >> > if they are ready to join ‘their’ freedom ‘struggle’. The honourable >> >> > parliamentarians’ visit to his home might suggest the helplessness of >> >> > Indian >> >> > democracy but I will be more concerned about what these >> >> > parliamentarians >> >> > speak about the visit on their return. I do concede that the sagging >> >> > status >> >> > of the Moolvi moonlighting as a separatist leader as well as the >> >> > former >> >> > terror commander who unabashedly continues to take credit for having >> >> > founded >> >> > the ‘gun culture’ in the valley will get a boost & so the war for the >> >> > post >> >> > of Emir of Kashmir will only intensify & the agony of Kashmiris only >> >> > gets >> >> > prolonged. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I can only say that but for the blunders committed by the successive >> >> > Govts. >> >> > Kashmir would not have been an issue at all. It is the continued >> >> > appeasement >> >> > & the policy to promote dynasties that has prevented integration of >> >> > Kashmir >> >> > with the main stream India. The role played by the so called civil >> >> > society >> >> > is even worse –its continued pampering of the secessionists has only >> >> > >> >> > facilitated the growth of rabid pan -Islamic mindset in the valley. >> >> > Today, >> >> > ordinary Kashmiri Muslims are being held hostage by none other than >> >> > their >> >> > own who are out there in the streets creating mayhem at the behest of >> >> > proponents of Azadi- bara- e- Islam. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Yes, you are right, Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are facing crisis. It is >> >> > not >> >> > so >> >> > simple to be living with the ignominy of being refugees in your own >> >> > country. >> >> > You may prefer to ignore it but Kashmiri Hindu Pandits are perusing a >> >> > political agenda to return to the valley of their ancestors where >> >> > their >> >> > safety & dignity are guaranteed under one Indian secular constitution >> >> > only. >> >> > ‘Two flags’ & ‘two constitutions’ have failed to stop persecution of >> >> > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits that began with the arrival of militant Islam >> >> > in >> >> > the >> >> > medieval times in Kashmir. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > You may have your own reasons to be infatuated with the Kashmiri >> >> > pan-Islamists who want to resurrect medievalism in Kashmir. Just >> >> > because >> >> > you >> >> > think you can’t fight ‘them’ does not imply that you should be >> >> > joining >> >> > them. >> >> > I would like to make it clear that my love for India & the >> >> > >> >> > tri- colour is unconditional. I am proud of my Hindu identity & it in >> >> > no >> >> > way >> >> > prevents me from regarding all other religious communities as equal >> >> > stakeholders in this country. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >  I fail to understand your confidence in your belief that Kashmiri >> >> > language, >> >> > heritage, music, poetry are well preserved in the hands of those who >> >> > consider heritage (other than Islamic), music &  even poetry against >> >> > the >> >> > religion that is sought to be ‘the law’ in Kashmir. I am sure you are >> >> > aware >> >> > of the historical distortions that are being invented by the vested >> >> > interests in Kashmir today. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I do not agree with your contention that the present conflict is >> >> > between >> >> > the >> >> > Govt. of India & the ‘people of Kashmir’. No, please do not >> >> > ‘generalise’. >> >> > Most Kashmiris would find it offensive to be associated with >> >> > obscurantisms. >> >> > You would be wasting your time & energy in propagating the separatist >> >> > propaganda in seeking the Kashmiri Pandits’ return to connect with >> >> > the >> >> > ‘Kashmiri Muslims’. Please correct your perceptions. I have genuine >> >> > grievances against Kashmiri Muslims in general for they failed to >> >> > protect a >> >> > miniscule minority in their neighbourhoods, but there is no hatred as >> >> > such. >> >> > I have said it earlier if at all the so called Kashmiriyat exists >> >> > today >> >> > it >> >> > is in the hearts of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits far awy from Kashmir in >> >> > refugee >> >> > camps & outside. And I also believe, that status quo will not be >> >> > everlasting >> >> > in Kashmir. The process of death & destruction initiated by the ‘sons >> >> > of >> >> > the >> >> > soil’ themselves in the name of religion driven separatism will >> >> > eventually >> >> > singe the valley (the sparks are beginning to be seen even now) & >> >> > that >> >> > is >> >> > when the hitherto silent because of  fear & religious blackmail, >> >> > Kashmiri >> >> > Muslim masses will be out in the streets to chase the separatists to >> >> > POK >> >> > where they actually deserve to be, in the lap of their Pakistani >> >> > masters. >> >> > Don’t forget, Kashmiris have done it earlier, when they spurned the >> >> > two >> >> > nation theory author-Mr. Jinnah’s moves to seduce them. >> >> > >> >> > Rgds >> >> > >> >> > LA >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:08:27 +0530 >> >> >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> >> >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri scessionist movement has pan >> >> >> Islamic >> >> >> roots >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear Lalit >> >> >> I have written it earlier also >> >> >> but i repeat, not for you also but many KP brothers who are fond of >> >> >> speaking about exodus as and when there is any opportunity. >> >> >> >> >> >> well, recently i met a KP friend who was quite upset with Aditya Raj >> >> >> Kaul who remained mum during a TV discussion ( some Times channel ) >> >> >> on >> >> >> exodus of KPs from valley in 90. It was some Sikh representative, >> >> >> Mr.Jagat Singh ( perhaps ) who said that KPs left the valley on >> >> >> their >> >> >> own. which was music to Bilal Lone, the other conversant in the >> >> >> room. >> >> >> May be Mr. Aditya Raj Koul ji can clarify it in detail. The >> >> >> discussion >> >> >> was about the recent threat to Sikh community by some elements who >> >> >> wanted them leave the valley. I see little TV myself...so dont know >> >> >> the exact thing... >> >> >> >> >> >> On the other hand, i maintain the fact that KPs had to leave the >> >> >> valley in 1990 because there was a genuine threat to life and >> >> >> dignity, >> >> >> given the fact that many innocent KPs were killed. Jagmohan indeed >> >> >> provided curfew relaxation to those who wanted to leave, but he is >> >> >> not >> >> >> the core player of KP exodus. However, the contradiction remain that >> >> >> GOI was knowing it all from word go, and remained silent spectators >> >> >> to >> >> >> worsening situation... it is still mystery to me... ( in other words >> >> >> i >> >> >> see GOI as a direct cause of KP exodus, not only historically but in >> >> >> 1990 as well ) >> >> >> >> >> >> It is the same Aditya who said Geelani hoon hia hia, atJantar Mantar >> >> >> recently, ( Down with Geelaii dog ) which i found utterly >> >> >> unparliamentary since i have never heard SAS Geelani saying such >> >> >> things openly to KPs ( this i am saying after i have deep problems >> >> >> with his only religious political card for Kashmir conflict ) It is >> >> >> the same SAS Geelani who is refusing indian Home Minister to meet. I >> >> >> wrote earlier also that Chidambaram would go to Kashmir and knock >> >> >> his >> >> >> door for a meeting for peace...Where does RIK people stand, >> >> >> politically... >> >> >> >> >> >> But Geelani sahib is not the only one who represents Kashmir >> >> >> conflict >> >> >> at the core. there are others, and there are people in general who >> >> >> represent themselves now... see how SAS Geelani's call for hartal >> >> >> was >> >> >> rejected recently..... it is not easy for GOI to cut a deal with >> >> >> Huriyat even... so where do KPs hard core anti KM politics stand.... >> >> >> >> >> >> Well, KPs right now facing cultural identity crises at the moment... >> >> >> They are rapidly realizing that there will no Kashmiiri seapking boy >> >> >> or girl after one or two decades down the line. If there will be >> >> >> anybody able to recite Lad Ded or Krishan joo razdan, it will be KM >> >> >> from valley... >> >> >> >> >> >> so what use to unfurl Tricolour in front of people protesting about >> >> >> the recent killings at Jantar Mantar. >> >> >> The best thing KPs can do is to reconnect themselves with KM's in >> >> >> the >> >> >> valley and restore cultural links... the situation is quite >> >> >> different >> >> >> from 1990, things can change if KP love their language, heritage, >> >> >> music, poetry... sorry not this Nationalism.. which is of no use in >> >> >> deeper sense.... believe me... >> >> >> >> >> >> that is the only real thing i feel, if KP begin with anything >> >> >> positive..... >> >> >> that way they can dream to return back, even... >> >> >> >> >> >> seemingly the conflict is between Govt of India and the people of >> >> >> kashmir, so KP ought to give time to the most vital thing... the >> >> >> real >> >> >> kashmir is also about its ancient echos, not Hindu religous identity >> >> >> alone... that too will be political.. but we need guts >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I know you will point out the fact that KPs too are kashmirs. >> >> >> but i want to know how, not only in the present, but after2 or three >> >> >> decades... >> >> >> >> >> >> with love >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Lalit Ambardar >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > My apologies.There is a minor correction in the subject line >> >> >> > ,hence >> >> >> > this >> >> >> > repeated mail. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Rgds all >> >> >> > >> >> >> > LA >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > The issue of ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the >> >> >> > hands >> >> >> > of >> >> >> > Kashmiri jihadis is usually ignored.But now,the hesitation to >> >> >> > admit >> >> >> >  'pan >> >> >> > Islamic fervour' being the sole inspiration for the on going >> >> >> > Kashmiri >> >> >> > scessionist movement seems to be fading away. As the discourse on >> >> >> > Kashmir >> >> >> > takes a new course, the 'ambuiguity' is being replaced by >> >> >> > 'positions'.Here >> >> >> > is how VIr Sanghvi takes his position: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >  Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times >> >> >> > >> >> >> > New Delhi, September 18, 2010 >> >> >> >                                               Our secularism will >> >> >> > withstand any opposition >> >> >> > I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting >> >> >> > frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists >> >> >> > described >> >> >> > again >> >> >> > and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular. >> >> >> > By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the >> >> >> > accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious, for many years Kashmiri >> >> >> > elections >> >> >> > were rigged, Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India, >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > army >> >> >> > subjects the Valley to a reign of terror etc. >> >> >> > Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel >> >> >> > about >> >> >> > Kashmir. We are, apparently, a Hindu-majority State that is >> >> >> > determined to >> >> >> > hang on by force to Kashmir. >> >> >> > Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has >> >> >> > begun >> >> >> > to annoy me not just because it’s untrue but because it describes >> >> >> > an >> >> >> > India >> >> >> > that I do not recognise and ascribe views to Indians that I know >> >> >> > we >> >> >> > do not >> >> >> > hold. >> >> >> > In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir is not >> >> >> > guided >> >> >> > by Hindu chauvinism or Indian imperialism. In fact, the >> >> >> > overwhelming >> >> >> > emotion >> >> >> > when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of >> >> >> > bewilderment. >> >> >> > The >> >> >> > vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > demands of Kashmiri militants. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so >> >> >> > much? >> >> >> > And >> >> >> > what is it that they actually want? >> >> >> > There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. >> >> >> > We >> >> >> > recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military >> >> >> > presence in >> >> >> > a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and >> >> >> > where >> >> >> > curfew >> >> >> > is a regular occurrence. Most of us are intensely embarrassed by >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > stories >> >> >> > of human rights abuses — some of which must surely be true. >> >> >> > But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is >> >> >> > a >> >> >> > response to a violent insurrection against the Indian State. Till >> >> >> > 1989, >> >> >> > Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army >> >> >> > went >> >> >> > in only >> >> >> > after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, >> >> >> > after >> >> >> > kidnappings became a regular occurrence, and after jihadis >> >> >> > thronged >> >> >> > to >> >> >> > Kashmir from across the border. >> >> >> > Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian State, >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > State is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It >> >> >> > is >> >> >> > obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the >> >> >> > rule >> >> >> > of law. >> >> >> > Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. >> >> >> > Indian >> >> >> > soldiers have no particular desire to risk their lives in Kashmir. >> >> >> > But each >> >> >> > time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending the >> >> >> > Armed >> >> >> > Forces >> >> >> > Special Powers Act (AFSPA), the violence actually seems to >> >> >> > increase. >> >> >> > There >> >> >> > is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be >> >> >> > greeted by >> >> >> > a similar reduction in the level of militant violence. >> >> >> > Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state >> >> >> > violence >> >> >> > in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they >> >> >> > say >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > they now accepted Indian sovereignty? I don’t think so. The army >> >> >> > presence is >> >> >> > unfortunate. But it is not the core issue. >> >> >> > From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is >> >> >> > bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average >> >> >> > Kashmiri has >> >> >> > the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian >> >> >> > State >> >> >> > spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri >> >> >> > is >> >> >> > vastly >> >> >> > greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average >> >> >> > Bihari. >> >> >> > Further, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other >> >> >> > Indians. >> >> >> > Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that >> >> >> > has >> >> >> > not been >> >> >> > true for several years. The People’s Democratic Party >> >> >> > (PDP)-government was >> >> >> > legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference >> >> >> > regime. >> >> >> > Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that >> >> >> > Indians who >> >> >> > reside in other parts of the country do not have. >> >> >> > We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s >> >> >> > accession, >> >> >> > there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following >> >> >> > 1947. >> >> >> > Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of >> >> >> > India — >> >> >> > Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc — but in every case we have >> >> >> > managed >> >> >> > to >> >> >> > fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist >> >> >> > sentiment. But >> >> >> > what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this >> >> >> > generation of >> >> >> > Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand >> >> >> > secession? >> >> >> > More mystifying for us is that we don’t know what the Kashmiris >> >> >> > want. >> >> >> > Who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled >> >> >> > Pakistan? Who >> >> >> > wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of >> >> >> > national >> >> >> > collapse? >> >> >> > Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi >> >> >> > minorities >> >> >> > well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a >> >> >> > genocide. The >> >> >> > Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And PoK is hardly a >> >> >> > shining >> >> >> > advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship. >> >> >> > Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and >> >> >> > Pakistan. >> >> >> > But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of >> >> >> > Kashmir, >> >> >> > with no >> >> >> > industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies >> >> >> > from India >> >> >> > or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run >> >> >> > according to >> >> >> > strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe >> >> >> > haven >> >> >> > to the >> >> >> > world’s jihadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that >> >> >> > America or >> >> >> > any great power would support the creation of such a state. >> >> >> > So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and >> >> >> > pointless insurrection? I don’t think most Indians know the answer >> >> >> > but we >> >> >> > suspect that it might have to do with religion. In today’s secular >> >> >> > India, >> >> >> > religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political >> >> >> > behaviour. >> >> >> > We find >> >> >> > the notion of a state founded only on religious identity >> >> >> > old-fashioned and >> >> >> > bizarre. >> >> >> > But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than >> >> >> > anything >> >> >> > else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal >> >> >> > from >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim >> >> >> > (after the >> >> >> > ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds >> >> >> > many >> >> >> > takers. >> >> >> > This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri >> >> >> > separatists >> >> >> > apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and >> >> >> > feel >> >> >> > no >> >> >> > kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands. >> >> >> > But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, >> >> >> > it >> >> >> > poses special problems for India. I suspect that many of us are >> >> >> > now >> >> >> > so fed >> >> >> > up that we would be relieved to be rid of the Valley but for our >> >> >> > fears for >> >> >> > the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this >> >> >> > would not >> >> >> > be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s >> >> >> > secession >> >> >> > would >> >> >> > mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority. >> >> >> > Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a >> >> >> > desire >> >> >> > to >> >> >> > protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the >> >> >> > world that >> >> >> > India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack >> >> >> > Kashmiri >> >> >> > Muslims. It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism >> >> >> > survived >> >> >> > that lie. And no matter how much the Kashmiri separatists may >> >> >> > misrepresent >> >> >> > our position now, both India and its secularism will triumph >> >> >> > again. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> > >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> >> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aliens at dataone.in Sat Sep 25 23:25:30 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 23:25:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> Message-ID: <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> Anupam, Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more rights than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. I am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what’s wrong in it. You or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, but fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all the states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since they are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue for their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does not allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound to be there and they themselves are responsible for that. Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily on Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying all the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to say whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as rogue state. That’s internal matter of India and India does not interfere in other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike Pak. That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan being rogue state. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin, I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be in the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment on every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that the ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not only in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not consider that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely, in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India thrives in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward would be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are however very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops or rescue work that was carried out during calamities. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Anupam, Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and  rogue Pakistan. But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after achieving freedom I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the lollipop of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of life would have been saved. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin Trivedi Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations. And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the agenda or consider the aspirations? is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea of territoriality of the state arises from such a position.   Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like yours Bipin. Thanks Anupam On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not interfere. When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if azadi is given to Kashmiri. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gautam navlakha Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: activist , asish gupta ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: From: iteam at amnesty.org Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir To: iteam at amnesty.org Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM Dear friends Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir Best regards, South Asia Team Amnesty International International Secretariat 1 Easton Street London WC1X ODW United Kingdom Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 http://www.amnesty.org http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * PUBLIC STATEMENT* AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 17 September 2010 * India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by police. With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use firearms against demonstrators,   Security forces should use the minimum force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the security forces, in March.  The vast majority of these killings have been at the hands of police and paramilitary forces. An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in July has failed to make headway.  Amnesty International renews its call to the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough investigation into all the killings.  Members of the security forces responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought to justice. In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the Quran in the United States increased tensions.  Demonstrators attacked two Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot protestors who were throwing stones at them. A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under 24 hour curfew for the last five days. Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have suspended their work. Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, which includes the right to receive information.  Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of public concern. More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu and Kashmir.   This underlines the urgency for  the Indian authorities to instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with demonstrations. The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by security forces. The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of its districts. One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar on 20 September. Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with impunity. Ends/ -- Working to protect human rights worldwide DISCLAIMER This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 23:27:58 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 23:27:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] No Proof of the Existence of Indian Mujahideen Message-ID: After all the ruckus about "Indian Mujahideen" created by the govt. authorities and the media, there is now the news that it was just a figment of imagination: No Proof of the Existence of Indian Mujahideen http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/No-proof-on-existence-of-Indian-Mujahideen/videoshow/6627083.cms ‘The Indian Mujahideen is a figment of imagination’ http://www.hindustantimes.com/The-Indian-Mujahideen-is-a-figment-of-imagination/Article1-511056.aspx From babuubab at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 00:26:02 2010 From: babuubab at gmail.com (SUNDARA BABU) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 00:26:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> Message-ID: Dear Friends, There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. regards, Sundara Babu On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more rights > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. I > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what’s wrong in it. You > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, but > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all the > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > they > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > for > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does not > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > to > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily on > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > all > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > say > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > rogue state. That’s internal matter of India and India does not interfere > in > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike Pak. > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > being rogue state. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin, > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > in > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > on > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > the > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > only > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > consider > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely, > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > thrives > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > would > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > however > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > or > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > Thanks Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > Pakistan. > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > lollipop > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation > will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > life would have been saved. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > don't > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not > interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 26 10:30:42 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:30:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] No Proof of the Existence of Indian Mujahideen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01cb5d37$c5c07520$51415f60$@in> Yes Javed, people like Digvijay Singh is there people like you did not worry. Digvijay is height of minor appeasement and congress from back door supports him. With such a people/party, it is out of question to freed India from terrorism. When IM himself openly tells for his act and logically proved that it is new version of banned SIMI. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 11:28 PM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] No Proof of the Existence of Indian Mujahideen After all the ruckus about "Indian Mujahideen" created by the govt. authorities and the media, there is now the news that it was just a figment of imagination: No Proof of the Existence of Indian Mujahideen http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/No-proof-on-existence-of-Indian-Mujahideen/videoshow/6627083.cms ‘The Indian Mujahideen is a figment of imagination’ http://www.hindustantimes.com/The-Indian-Mujahideen-is-a-figment-of-imagination/Article1-511056.aspx _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jha.srirang at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 12:49:13 2010 From: jha.srirang at gmail.com (srirang jha) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 12:49:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] No Proof of the Existence of Indian Mujahideen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Javed, I wish I M did not exist. But probably there is some supernatural power that explodes bombs and fires bullets and wirtes e-mails and then disappears just like a figment of imagination. It is a great wishful thinking, isn't it? Srirang On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Javed wrote: > After all the ruckus about "Indian Mujahideen" created by the govt. > authorities and the media, there is now the news that it was just a > figment of imagination: > > No Proof of the Existence of Indian Mujahideen > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/No-proof-on-existence-of-Indian-Mujahideen/videoshow/6627083.cms > > ‘The Indian Mujahideen is a figment of imagination’ > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/The-Indian-Mujahideen-is-a-figment-of-imagination/Article1-511056.aspx > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 12:54:46 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 12:54:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin, 1. Can you prove that on going demonstrations and protests has anything to do with Article 370 or as a consequence of tax payer's money being diverted to protect the so called special privileges of Kashmiris? If article 370 guarantees special privileges to the Kashmiris, why is it that there is discontentment among the people? 2. Can you also prove that heavy spending on Kashmir is exclusively for the Kashmiris, who are now protesting? 3. Article 370 is applicable to two other states as well. Would you know terms under which these two other states have been brought under this article? 4. Is a paramilitary armed soldier equipped enough to understand the angst of a protesting Kashmiri? I do not think so. It has never been the case. 5. For any conflict to be called internal or external, it needs two conflicting sides to agree to the nature of conflict. Do both the sides say whether this conflict is internal or external? Who are you to comment on the nature of this conflict? 6. Manipur and Assam (for ages now), similar to Kashmir has been asking for the removal of AFSPA. These two states do not enjoy any priviledges under Article 370. How do you explain the dissent against AFSPA in these two states? I would appreciate if you could mull over these questions. I also appreciate that you are directly addressing my doubts and writings, which earlier was absent despite my efforts to reply to every other thing that you posted about Gujarat. Hoping to hear from you again Bipin. with regards, Anupam On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:26 AM, SUNDARA BABU wrote: > Dear Friends, > There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or > Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY > INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation > so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its > statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel > elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing > violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please > highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K > and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should > lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic > INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. > regards, > Sundara Babu > > > > > > On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Anupam, > > > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more > rights > > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. > I > > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what’s wrong in it. > You > > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, > but > > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all > the > > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > > they > > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > > for > > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does > not > > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > > to > > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily > on > > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > > all > > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > > say > > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > > rogue state. That’s internal matter of India and India does not interfere > > in > > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike > Pak. > > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > > being rogue state. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin, > > > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I > appreciate > > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given > to > > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. > Yes > > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > > in > > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, > so > > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most > of > > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the > protests > > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > > on > > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > > the > > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can > we > > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > > only > > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > > consider > > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very > conversely, > > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out > of > > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > > thrives > > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest > on > > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if > the > > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > > would > > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > > however > > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > > or > > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > > > Thanks Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Anupam, > > > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve > their > > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > > Pakistan. > > > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that > is > > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > > achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects > in > > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the > > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > > lollipop > > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your > situation > > will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. > > > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they > possess > > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that > this > > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > > life would have been saved. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if > it > > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > > aspirations. > > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your > freedom, > > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their > own > > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on > the > > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > > not > > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > > things > > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the > idea > > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where > are > > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > > about > > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this > issue, > > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of > content, > > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically > flawed. > > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not > the > > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > > Even > > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of > the > > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own > sovereignty > > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to > as > > a > > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > > the > > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few > tyrants, > > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > > very > > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > > one > > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions > like > > yours Bipin. > > > > Thanks > > Anupam > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > > interest > > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > > don't > > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do > not > > interfere. > > > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from > US, > > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely > prefer > > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and > > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: gautam navlakha > > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > > Deaths in Kashmir > > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Khurram Parvez > > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > > Kashmir > > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > > To: iteam at amnesty.org > > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > > > Dear friends > > > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > > > Best regards, > > South Asia Team > > Amnesty International > > International Secretariat > > 1 Easton Street > > London WC1X ODW > > United Kingdom > > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > > > http://www.amnesty.org > > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > > > 17 September 2010 > > > > * > > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect > for > > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > > police. > > > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > > of > > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > > life. > > > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by > the > > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > > at > > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting > in > > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call > to > > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > > to justice. > > > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > > injured > > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > > (CRPF) > > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones > at > > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked > two > > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been > under > > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > > the > > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > > suspended their work. > > > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > > as > > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role > of > > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > > curfew > > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > > their > > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues > of > > public concern. > > > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All > Party > > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > > Jammu > > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > > demonstrations. > > > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators > by > > security forces. > > > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > > (Jammu > > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few > of > > its districts. > > > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > > figure > > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > > on 20 September. > > > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > > impunity. > > > > Ends/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 > with > > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 26 19:23:09 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:23:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> Message-ID: <001e01cb5d82$2792b9d0$76b82d70$@in> Sundara Babu, I have never doubt Amnesty integrity as human right activists. But, they did nothing to avert Iraq war is questionable. Not a single statement against the US for their war plan. Yes, you are right Amnesty takes strong public position against human rights, but after the actual war took place for wrong reason. Amnesty International is so powerful in US and they would have avert the war by putting pressure on US government. Do you think Amnesty so powerful does not know the false reason created for war? They were knowing this very much still they allowed for war that is what objectionable. First allow to kill the people for false reason and then take strong action is just ridiculous. They are advising in India for take care of human rights, but I have not heard about their advice to separatists or terrorists to stop innocent killings. If you have read this provide me the link. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of SUNDARA BABU Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:26 AM To: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Dear Friends, There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. regards, Sundara Babu On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more rights > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. I > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what’s wrong in it. You > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, but > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all the > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > they > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > for > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does not > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > to > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily on > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > all > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > say > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > rogue state. That’s internal matter of India and India does not interfere > in > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike Pak. > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > being rogue state. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin, > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > in > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > on > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > the > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > only > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > consider > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely, > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > thrives > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > would > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > however > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > or > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > Thanks Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > Pakistan. > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > lollipop > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation > will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all. > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > life would have been saved. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > don't > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not > interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps – > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 26 19:52:56 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:52:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> Message-ID: <001f01cb5d86$50a93b60$f1fbb220$@in> I believe that Article 370 is useless and must be remove from all the states. This law restricts industrial development and ultimately unemployment remains there. Earlier I have made lots of communication on this topic, if you have not read I will send it to you separately on your request. Allotted money does not utilize fully for the respected state is common problem for all the states as lots of money goes in between and not applicable to Kashmir only. Paramilitary force lower cadre who obeys the order only might not knowing about protesters, but top brass who is in charge of forces are fully aware with the problem. I have full right to put my view and as a Indian I am alerting common people of Kashmiri, who are Indian citizens also, that do not come in the trap of separatist. Normally when the border states facing its own sovereignty threats from across the border, laws like AFSPA come into effect. Kashmir is altogether different issue to continue AFSPA, while other 2 states this law is prevailing for different reason and whether to remove or not can be decided jointly by state/central government. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:55 PM To: SUNDARA BABU; sarai list; bipin Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Dear Bipin, 1. Can you prove that on going demonstrations and protests has anything to do with Article 370 or as a consequence of tax payer's money being diverted to protect the so called special privileges of Kashmiris? If article 370 guarantees special privileges to the Kashmiris, why is it that there is discontentment among the people? 2. Can you also prove that heavy spending on Kashmir is exclusively for the Kashmiris, who are now protesting? 3. Article 370 is applicable to two other states as well. Would you know terms under which these two other states have been brought under this article? 4. Is a paramilitary armed soldier equipped enough to understand the angst of a protesting Kashmiri? I do not think so. It has never been the case. 5. For any conflict to be called internal or external, it needs two conflicting sides to agree to the nature of conflict. Do both the sides say whether this conflict is internal or external? Who are you to comment on the nature of this conflict? 6. Manipur and Assam (for ages now), similar to Kashmir has been asking for the removal of AFSPA. These two states do not enjoy any priviledges under Article 370. How do you explain the dissent against AFSPA in these two states? I would appreciate if you could mull over these questions. I also appreciate that you are directly addressing my doubts and writings, which earlier was absent despite my efforts to reply to every other thing that you posted about Gujarat. Hoping to hear from you again Bipin. with regards, Anupam On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:26 AM, SUNDARA BABU wrote: Dear Friends, There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. regards, Sundara Babu On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more rights > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. I > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what's wrong in it. You > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, but > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all the > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > they > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > for > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does not > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > to > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily on > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > all > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > say > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > rogue state. That's internal matter of India and India does not interfere > in > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike Pak. > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > being rogue state. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin, > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > in > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > on > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > the > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > only > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > consider > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely, > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > thrives > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > would > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > however > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > or > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > Thanks Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > Pakistan. > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > achieving freedom... I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is". I am trying to alert the > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > lollipop > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation > will be even worse. Please understand this. That's all. > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > life would have been saved. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > don't > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not > interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state's other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps - > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 26 20:23:49 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 20:23:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> <001f01cb5d86$50a93b60$f1fbb220$@in> Message-ID: <002701cb5d8a$a141b8a0$e3c529e0$@in> Thanks for your view. Can you please provide history behind article 370? I am least concerned in which states article 370 is applicable. I am talking it in general. If you know you can tell, I will be pleased. From: Anjuman Ara Begum [mailto:anju.azad at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 8:01 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: anupam chakravartty; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Dear Bipin, I am sure you will get more opportunities to show your ignorance about the history behind article 370 if you continue in this thread of discussion. also i hope you will also be able to name the ' two other states' where AFSPA is in force. Best regards anjuman On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: I believe that Article 370 is useless and must be remove from all the states. This law restricts industrial development and ultimately unemployment remains there. Earlier I have made lots of communication on this topic, if you have not read I will send it to you separately on your request. Allotted money does not utilize fully for the respected state is common problem for all the states as lots of money goes in between and not applicable to Kashmir only. Paramilitary force lower cadre who obeys the order only might not knowing about protesters, but top brass who is in charge of forces are fully aware with the problem. I have full right to put my view and as a Indian I am alerting common people of Kashmiri, who are Indian citizens also, that do not come in the trap of separatist. Normally when the border states facing its own sovereignty threats from across the border, laws like AFSPA come into effect. Kashmir is altogether different issue to continue AFSPA, while other 2 states this law is prevailing for different reason and whether to remove or not can be decided jointly by state/central government. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:55 PM To: SUNDARA BABU; sarai list; bipin Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Dear Bipin, 1. Can you prove that on going demonstrations and protests has anything to do with Article 370 or as a consequence of tax payer's money being diverted to protect the so called special privileges of Kashmiris? If article 370 guarantees special privileges to the Kashmiris, why is it that there is discontentment among the people? 2. Can you also prove that heavy spending on Kashmir is exclusively for the Kashmiris, who are now protesting? 3. Article 370 is applicable to two other states as well. Would you know terms under which these two other states have been brought under this article? 4. Is a paramilitary armed soldier equipped enough to understand the angst of a protesting Kashmiri? I do not think so. It has never been the case. 5. For any conflict to be called internal or external, it needs two conflicting sides to agree to the nature of conflict. Do both the sides say whether this conflict is internal or external? Who are you to comment on the nature of this conflict? 6. Manipur and Assam (for ages now), similar to Kashmir has been asking for the removal of AFSPA. These two states do not enjoy any priviledges under Article 370. How do you explain the dissent against AFSPA in these two states? I would appreciate if you could mull over these questions. I also appreciate that you are directly addressing my doubts and writings, which earlier was absent despite my efforts to reply to every other thing that you posted about Gujarat. Hoping to hear from you again Bipin. with regards, Anupam On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:26 AM, SUNDARA BABU wrote: Dear Friends, There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. regards, Sundara Babu On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more rights > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. I > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what's wrong in it. You > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, but > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all the > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > they > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > for > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does not > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > to > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily on > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > all > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > say > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > rogue state. That's internal matter of India and India does not interfere > in > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike Pak. > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > being rogue state. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin, > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > in > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > on > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > the > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > only > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > consider > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely, > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > thrives > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > would > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > however > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > or > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > Thanks Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > Pakistan. > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > achieving freedom... I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is". I am trying to alert the > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > lollipop > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation > will be even worse. Please understand this. That's all. > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > life would have been saved. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > don't > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not > interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state's other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps - > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Anjuman Ara Begum Phone: +91-9954082155 (M)/ +91-9871262134 (Delhi) Skype: anjumanarabegum From ektaraindia at email.com Wed Sep 22 22:27:53 2010 From: ektaraindia at email.com (ektara) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:57:53 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] a workshop on "Sufi Literature and Social Resposibility" In-Reply-To: <8CD23CAE6CC3752-F94-D91D@web-mmc-m07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD23C950C64400-F94-D887@web-mmc-m07.sysops.aol.com> <8CD23CAE6CC3752-F94-D91D@web-mmc-m07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD288E6EAACD1B-F94-CABE@web-mmc-m07.sysops.aol.com> Ektara India cordially invites you to a 2-days Workshop on Sufi Literature and Social Resposibility at New Delhi, on November 13-14, 2010 (Sat/Sunday) With a heritage walk on 25th Nov. The seats are limited and the registration is open. As listening to Sufi music and qawwali becomes more and more trendy, there are debates about what the true Sufi music is. Is it some meditative chanting that provides peace and tranquillity to an individual in today’s stressful urban life? Is it supposed to involve a lot of rhythm and high octave vocals using the names of god or Ali, as often exhibited by contemporary Indian cinema or pop music groups? Or is there something more... to Sufi music and literature than mere self-indulgence? Does it have a social relevance in today’s life? Could it help us connect to our pluralistic past? Could it help us learn ways to coexist in today’s multicultural society? These are some of the questions that we hope to address in a two-day intensive workshop involving several scholars, music practitioners and media professionals who have been working on these themes. Some of these include Madan Gopal Singh, Atmaram, Dhruv Sangari and others. Ektara India has been successfully conducting such workshops for last couple of years, the details of which can be seen on our website (www.ektara.org). The workshops are open for all who have an interest in Sufi poetry, music and Qawwali. The participants do not have to have a prior knowledge or training of music, nor is there an age-bar. Kindly note that this is not a course for learning music, but for appreciating music, poetry and their social contexts. The two day workshop will be repeated on 20th and 21st November as well. Thus you can select the dates that suit you best. Most presentations will be given in English with some Urdu/Hindi content. Although two days are insufficient for a comprehensive understanding of such a subject, it is hoped that by the end of the workshop, the participants would be able to better appreciate the nuances of Sufi music, poetry, and Qawwali and its historical context. The two days will comprise of full day sessions (10 am to 6 pm) of lectures, discussions, some singing and recitation of poetry, screening of documentary films and archival sound recordings. Detailed schedule of the 2-days will be available in early-October 2010. An additional heritage walk to a Sufi shrine with live traditional music will take place on the 25th November 2010 in the evening. Lunches, tea/coffee and refreshments will be provided. Hand-outs including reading material and audio/video clips (on a CD) will also be provided. Ektara India would also present a certificate of participation to each participant. Registration: The seats are limited and a prior registration is required. Registration fee (inclusive of lunch/tea/handouts etc.): Rs.2500/- per participant (Indian Rupees two thousand five hundred only), with a 20% discount for early bird applicants, students and couples/groups. Deadline for receiving the application for early bird and student discount is 10th October 2010. Couples or groups can avail the discount until the start of the workshop (subject to the availability of seats). The students seeking a discount should not be working as professionals. To register, kindly download the application form (link below), print, fill and send it to us with the registration fee. You can either send the full amount or at least Rs.1000 in advance to ensure registration (the remainder can be paid by cash or cheque at the venue of the workshop). http://ektaramusic.com/smw-appform-nov10.doc http://ektaramusic.com/smw-appform-nov10.pdf Ektara team www.ektara.org We are also on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=114779248580249 (Kindly forward this message to others who might be interested) From anju.azad at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 20:01:27 2010 From: anju.azad at gmail.com (Anjuman Ara Begum) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 20:01:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <001f01cb5d86$50a93b60$f1fbb220$@in> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> <001f01cb5d86$50a93b60$f1fbb220$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin, I am sure you will get more opportunities to show your ignorance about the history behind article 370 if you continue in this thread of discussion. also i hope you will also be able to name the ' two other states' where AFSPA is in force. Best regards anjuman On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > I believe that Article 370 is useless and must be remove from all the > states. This law restricts industrial development and ultimately > unemployment remains there. Earlier I have made lots of communication on > this topic, if you have not read I will send it to you separately on your > request. > > > > Allotted money does not utilize fully for the respected state is common > problem for all the states as lots of money goes in between and not > applicable to Kashmir only. > > > > Paramilitary force lower cadre who obeys the order only might not knowing > about protesters, but top brass who is in charge of forces are fully aware > with the problem. > > > > I have full right to put my view and as a Indian I am alerting common > people > of Kashmiri, who are Indian citizens also, that do not come in the trap of > separatist. > > > > Normally when the border states facing its own sovereignty threats from > across the border, laws like AFSPA come into effect. Kashmir is altogether > different issue to continue AFSPA, while other 2 states this law is > prevailing for different reason and whether to remove or not can be decided > jointly by state/central government. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:55 PM > To: SUNDARA BABU; sarai list; bipin > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Dear Bipin, > > 1. Can you prove that on going demonstrations and protests has anything to > do with Article 370 or as a consequence of tax payer's money being diverted > to protect the so called special privileges of Kashmiris? If article 370 > guarantees special privileges to the Kashmiris, why is it that there is > discontentment among the people? > > 2. Can you also prove that heavy spending on Kashmir is exclusively for the > Kashmiris, who are now protesting? > > 3. Article 370 is applicable to two other states as well. Would you know > terms under which these two other states have been brought under this > article? > > 4. Is a paramilitary armed soldier equipped enough to understand the angst > of a protesting Kashmiri? I do not think so. It has never been the case. > > 5. For any conflict to be called internal or external, it needs two > conflicting sides to agree to the nature of conflict. Do both the sides say > whether this conflict is internal or external? Who are you to comment on > the > nature of this conflict? > > 6. Manipur and Assam (for ages now), similar to Kashmir has been asking for > the removal of AFSPA. These two states do not enjoy any priviledges under > Article 370. How do you explain the dissent against AFSPA in these two > states? > > I would appreciate if you could mull over these questions. I also > appreciate > that you are directly addressing my doubts and writings, which earlier was > absent despite my efforts to reply to every other thing that you posted > about Gujarat. Hoping to hear from you again Bipin. > > with regards, > Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:26 AM, SUNDARA BABU wrote: > > Dear Friends, > There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or > Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY > INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation > so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its > statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel > elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing > violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please > highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K > and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should > lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic > INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. > regards, > Sundara Babu > > > > > > > On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Anupam, > > > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more > rights > > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. > I > > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what's wrong in it. > You > > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, > but > > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all > the > > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > > they > > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > > for > > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does > not > > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > > to > > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily > on > > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > > all > > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > > say > > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > > rogue state. That's internal matter of India and India does not interfere > > in > > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike > Pak. > > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > > being rogue state. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin, > > > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I > appreciate > > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given > to > > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. > Yes > > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > > in > > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, > so > > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most > of > > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the > protests > > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > > on > > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > > the > > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can > we > > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > > only > > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > > consider > > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very > conversely, > > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out > of > > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > > thrives > > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest > on > > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if > the > > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > > would > > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > > however > > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > > or > > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > > > Thanks Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Anupam, > > > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve > their > > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > > Pakistan. > > > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that > is > > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > > achieving freedom... I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects > in > > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is". I am trying to alert the > > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > > lollipop > > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your > situation > > will be even worse. Please understand this. That's all. > > > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they > possess > > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that > this > > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > > life would have been saved. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if > it > > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > > aspirations. > > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your > freedom, > > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their > own > > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on > the > > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > > not > > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > > things > > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the > idea > > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where > are > > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > > about > > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this > issue, > > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of > content, > > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically > flawed. > > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not > the > > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > > Even > > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of > the > > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own > sovereignty > > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to > as > > a > > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > > the > > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few > tyrants, > > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > > very > > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > > one > > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions > like > > yours Bipin. > > > > Thanks > > Anupam > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > > interest > > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > > don't > > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do > not > > interfere. > > > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from > US, > > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely > prefer > > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and > > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: gautam navlakha > > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > > Deaths in Kashmir > > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Khurram Parvez > > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > > Kashmir > > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > > To: iteam at amnesty.org > > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > > > Dear friends > > > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > > > Best regards, > > South Asia Team > > Amnesty International > > International Secretariat > > 1 Easton Street > > London WC1X ODW > > United Kingdom > > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > > > http://www.amnesty.org > > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > > > 17 September 2010 > > > > * > > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect > for > > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > > police. > > > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > > of > > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > > life. > > > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by > the > > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > > at > > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting > in > > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call > to > > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > > to justice. > > > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > > injured > > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > > (CRPF) > > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones > at > > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked > two > > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been > under > > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > > the > > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > > suspended their work. > > > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > > as > > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > > with the state's other human rights obligations. In view of the key role > of > > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > > curfew > > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > > their > > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues > of > > public concern. > > > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All > Party > > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > > Jammu > > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > > demonstrations. > > > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators > by > > security forces. > > > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > > (Jammu > > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps - > > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few > of > > its districts. > > > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > > figure > > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > > on 20 September. > > > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > > impunity. > > > > Ends/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 > with > > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > -- > SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Anjuman Ara Begum Phone: +91-9954082155 (M)/ +91-9871262134 (Delhi) Skype: anjumanarabegum From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 21:03:18 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:03:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <002701cb5d8a$a141b8a0$e3c529e0$@in> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> <001f01cb5d86$50a93b60$f1fbb220$@in> <002701cb5d8a$a141b8a0$e3c529e0$@in> Message-ID: Bipin Trivedi, You have no idea where article 370 has been implemented apart from Kashmir and where AFSPA has been enforced. It is pointless to talk to someone who have no knowledge or is not even willing to discuss the implications of such acts. Article 370 prohibits the purchase of land anyone, even those who are married to kashmiris. I think it is from here that you are making the argument about industrialization in Kashmir. The moment article 370 is repealed, you will have everyone racing to kashmir from india and set up mines over. you speak for the industry, for rampant capitalism, which kashmir has been protected from. you want land in kashmir, a piece of cake so that you can turn that into a tourist's paradise and mint tonnes of money. the outcomes are seen Sir. now you have militant outfits, then you will gangs looting people every day. what are you talking about? kya bolte hoon? gujarat banaye kashmir ko? anupam On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Thanks for your view. Can you please provide history behind article 370? I > am least concerned in which states article 370 is applicable. I am talking > it in general. If you know you can tell, I will be pleased. > > > > > > From: Anjuman Ara Begum [mailto:anju.azad at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 8:01 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: anupam chakravartty; sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Dear Bipin, > > I am sure you will get more opportunities to show your ignorance about the > history behind article 370 if you continue in this thread of discussion. > > also i hope you will also be able to name the ' two other states' where > AFSPA is in force. > > > > Best regards > > anjuman > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > I believe that Article 370 is useless and must be remove from all the > states. This law restricts industrial development and ultimately > unemployment remains there. Earlier I have made lots of communication on > this topic, if you have not read I will send it to you separately on your > request. > > > > Allotted money does not utilize fully for the respected state is common > problem for all the states as lots of money goes in between and not > applicable to Kashmir only. > > > > Paramilitary force lower cadre who obeys the order only might not knowing > about protesters, but top brass who is in charge of forces are fully aware > with the problem. > > > > I have full right to put my view and as a Indian I am alerting common > people > of Kashmiri, who are Indian citizens also, that do not come in the trap of > separatist. > > > > Normally when the border states facing its own sovereignty threats from > across the border, laws like AFSPA come into effect. Kashmir is altogether > different issue to continue AFSPA, while other 2 states this law is > prevailing for different reason and whether to remove or not can be decided > jointly by state/central government. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:55 PM > To: SUNDARA BABU; sarai list; bipin > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Dear Bipin, > > 1. Can you prove that on going demonstrations and protests has anything to > do with Article 370 or as a consequence of tax payer's money being diverted > to protect the so called special privileges of Kashmiris? If article 370 > guarantees special privileges to the Kashmiris, why is it that there is > discontentment among the people? > > 2. Can you also prove that heavy spending on Kashmir is exclusively for the > Kashmiris, who are now protesting? > > 3. Article 370 is applicable to two other states as well. Would you know > terms under which these two other states have been brought under this > article? > > 4. Is a paramilitary armed soldier equipped enough to understand the angst > of a protesting Kashmiri? I do not think so. It has never been the case. > > 5. For any conflict to be called internal or external, it needs two > conflicting sides to agree to the nature of conflict. Do both the sides say > whether this conflict is internal or external? Who are you to comment on > the > nature of this conflict? > > 6. Manipur and Assam (for ages now), similar to Kashmir has been asking for > the removal of AFSPA. These two states do not enjoy any priviledges under > Article 370. How do you explain the dissent against AFSPA in these two > states? > > I would appreciate if you could mull over these questions. I also > appreciate > that you are directly addressing my doubts and writings, which earlier was > absent despite my efforts to reply to every other thing that you posted > about Gujarat. Hoping to hear from you again Bipin. > > with regards, > Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:26 AM, SUNDARA BABU wrote: > > Dear Friends, > There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or > Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY > INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation > so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its > statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel > elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing > violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please > highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K > and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should > lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic > INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. > regards, > Sundara Babu > > > > > > > On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Anupam, > > > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more > rights > > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. > I > > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what's wrong in it. > You > > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, > but > > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all > the > > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > > they > > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > > for > > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does > not > > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > > to > > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily > on > > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > > all > > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > > say > > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > > rogue state. That's internal matter of India and India does not interfere > > in > > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike > Pak. > > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > > being rogue state. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin, > > > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I > appreciate > > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given > to > > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. > Yes > > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > > in > > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, > so > > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most > of > > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the > protests > > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > > on > > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > > the > > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can > we > > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > > only > > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > > consider > > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very > conversely, > > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out > of > > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > > thrives > > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest > on > > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if > the > > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > > would > > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > > however > > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > > or > > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > > > Thanks Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Anupam, > > > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve > their > > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > > Pakistan. > > > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that > is > > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > > achieving freedom... I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects > in > > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is". I am trying to alert the > > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > > lollipop > > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your > situation > > will be even worse. Please understand this. That's all. > > > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they > possess > > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that > this > > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > > life would have been saved. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if > it > > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > > aspirations. > > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your > freedom, > > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their > own > > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on > the > > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > > not > > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > > things > > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the > idea > > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where > are > > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > > about > > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this > issue, > > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of > content, > > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically > flawed. > > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not > the > > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > > Even > > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of > the > > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own > sovereignty > > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to > as > > a > > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > > the > > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few > tyrants, > > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > > very > > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > > one > > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions > like > > yours Bipin. > > > > Thanks > > Anupam > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > > interest > > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > > don't > > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do > not > > interfere. > > > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from > US, > > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely > prefer > > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and > > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: gautam navlakha > > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > > Deaths in Kashmir > > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Khurram Parvez > > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > > Kashmir > > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > > To: iteam at amnesty.org > > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > > > Dear friends > > > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > > > Best regards, > > South Asia Team > > Amnesty International > > International Secretariat > > 1 Easton Street > > London WC1X ODW > > United Kingdom > > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > > > http://www.amnesty.org > > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > > > 17 September 2010 > > > > * > > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect > for > > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > > police. > > > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > > of > > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > > life. > > > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by > the > > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > > at > > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting > in > > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call > to > > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > > to justice. > > > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > > injured > > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > > (CRPF) > > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones > at > > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked > two > > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been > under > > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > > the > > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > > suspended their work. > > > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > > as > > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > > with the state's other human rights obligations. In view of the key role > of > > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > > curfew > > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > > their > > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues > of > > public concern. > > > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All > Party > > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > > Jammu > > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > > demonstrations. > > > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators > by > > security forces. > > > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > > (Jammu > > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps - > > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few > of > > its districts. > > > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > > figure > > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > > on 20 September. > > > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > > impunity. > > > > Ends/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 > with > > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > -- > SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Anjuman Ara Begum > > Phone: +91-9954082155 (M)/ +91-9871262134 (Delhi) > > Skype: anjumanarabegum > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From aliens at dataone.in Sun Sep 26 21:19:55 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:19:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> <001f01cb5d86$50a93b60$f1fbb220$@in> <002701cb5d8a$a141b8a0$e3c529e0$@in> Message-ID: <003501cb5d92$79b0cf30$6d126d90$@in> Thanks do not talk I will be pleased. Thanks for educating me for article 370! Industrialization means not only mines. So many industries are there which can be develop looking to that area environment. From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 9:03 PM To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Bipin Trivedi, You have no idea where article 370 has been implemented apart from Kashmir and where AFSPA has been enforced. It is pointless to talk to someone who have no knowledge or is not even willing to discuss the implications of such acts. Article 370 prohibits the purchase of land anyone, even those who are married to kashmiris. I think it is from here that you are making the argument about industrialization in Kashmir. The moment article 370 is repealed, you will have everyone racing to kashmir from india and set up mines over. you speak for the industry, for rampant capitalism, which kashmir has been protected from. you want land in kashmir, a piece of cake so that you can turn that into a tourist's paradise and mint tonnes of money. the outcomes are seen Sir. now you have militant outfits, then you will gangs looting people every day. what are you talking about? kya bolte hoon? gujarat banaye kashmir ko? anupam On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: Thanks for your view. Can you please provide history behind article 370? I am least concerned in which states article 370 is applicable. I am talking it in general. If you know you can tell, I will be pleased. From: Anjuman Ara Begum [mailto:anju.azad at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 8:01 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: anupam chakravartty; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Dear Bipin, I am sure you will get more opportunities to show your ignorance about the history behind article 370 if you continue in this thread of discussion. also i hope you will also be able to name the ' two other states' where AFSPA is in force. Best regards anjuman On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: I believe that Article 370 is useless and must be remove from all the states. This law restricts industrial development and ultimately unemployment remains there. Earlier I have made lots of communication on this topic, if you have not read I will send it to you separately on your request. Allotted money does not utilize fully for the respected state is common problem for all the states as lots of money goes in between and not applicable to Kashmir only. Paramilitary force lower cadre who obeys the order only might not knowing about protesters, but top brass who is in charge of forces are fully aware with the problem. I have full right to put my view and as a Indian I am alerting common people of Kashmiri, who are Indian citizens also, that do not come in the trap of separatist. Normally when the border states facing its own sovereignty threats from across the border, laws like AFSPA come into effect. Kashmir is altogether different issue to continue AFSPA, while other 2 states this law is prevailing for different reason and whether to remove or not can be decided jointly by state/central government. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:55 PM To: SUNDARA BABU; sarai list; bipin Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir Dear Bipin, 1. Can you prove that on going demonstrations and protests has anything to do with Article 370 or as a consequence of tax payer's money being diverted to protect the so called special privileges of Kashmiris? If article 370 guarantees special privileges to the Kashmiris, why is it that there is discontentment among the people? 2. Can you also prove that heavy spending on Kashmir is exclusively for the Kashmiris, who are now protesting? 3. Article 370 is applicable to two other states as well. Would you know terms under which these two other states have been brought under this article? 4. Is a paramilitary armed soldier equipped enough to understand the angst of a protesting Kashmiri? I do not think so. It has never been the case. 5. For any conflict to be called internal or external, it needs two conflicting sides to agree to the nature of conflict. Do both the sides say whether this conflict is internal or external? Who are you to comment on the nature of this conflict? 6. Manipur and Assam (for ages now), similar to Kashmir has been asking for the removal of AFSPA. These two states do not enjoy any priviledges under Article 370. How do you explain the dissent against AFSPA in these two states? I would appreciate if you could mull over these questions. I also appreciate that you are directly addressing my doubts and writings, which earlier was absent despite my efforts to reply to every other thing that you posted about Gujarat. Hoping to hear from you again Bipin. with regards, Anupam On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:26 AM, SUNDARA BABU wrote: Dear Friends, There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. regards, Sundara Babu On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more rights > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. I > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what's wrong in it. You > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, but > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all the > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > they > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > for > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does not > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > to > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily on > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > all > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > say > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > rogue state. That's internal matter of India and India does not interfere > in > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike Pak. > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > being rogue state. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin, > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > in > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > on > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > the > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > only > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > consider > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely, > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > thrives > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > would > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > however > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > or > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > Thanks Anupam > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Anupam, > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > Pakistan. > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > achieving freedom... I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is". I am trying to alert the > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > lollipop > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation > will be even worse. Please understand this. That's all. > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > life would have been saved. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > Bipin Trivedi > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > aspirations. > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom, > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > not > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > things > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > about > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue, > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content, > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed. > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > Even > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as > a > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > the > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants, > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > very > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > one > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like > yours Bipin. > > Thanks > Anupam > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > interest > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > don't > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not > interfere. > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US, > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: gautam navlakha > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > Deaths in Kashmir > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Khurram Parvez > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > To: iteam at amnesty.org > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > Dear friends > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir > > Best regards, > South Asia Team > Amnesty International > International Secretariat > 1 Easton Street > London WC1X ODW > United Kingdom > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > http://www.amnesty.org > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > 17 September 2010 > > * > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > police. > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > of > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect > life. > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > at > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call to > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought > to justice. > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > injured > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > (CRPF) > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked two > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > the > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > suspended their work. > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > as > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > with the state's other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > curfew > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > their > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of > public concern. > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > Jammu > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > demonstrations. > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by > security forces. > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > (Jammu > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps - > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of > its districts. > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > figure > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar > on 20 September. > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > impunity. > > Ends/ > > > -- > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > DISCLAIMER > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > intended > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail. > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Anjuman Ara Begum Phone: +91-9954082155 (M)/ +91-9871262134 (Delhi) Skype: anjumanarabegum _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 01:32:08 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 01:32:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] All things Pakistan: Bulleh Shah , the mystic poet saint Message-ID: Dear all here are few pakistani web sites on Bulleh Shah geat sufi mystic sufi saint poet http://pakistaniat.com/2007/08/31/bulleh-shah-rumi-rally-a-growing-global-audience/ the one below has english translations http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/B/BullehShah/ http://www.apnaorg.com/articles/BullehShah/ http://pakistaniat.com/2006/08/26/bulleh-shah-the-best-rendition-ever/ http://www.shairy.com/forum/bulleh-shah%CA%B9s-poetry-t4626s40.html surf more to see more love is From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Sep 27 10:06:39 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:06:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hilarious Video on the Games: Enjoy Message-ID: <71F7E866-367D-4EB4-B4BA-99EEF908A576@sarai.net> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBcn782_wvI&feature=player_embedded From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 10:43:14 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:43:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <003501cb5d92$79b0cf30$6d126d90$@in> References: <20721.49558.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001001cb575b$02c07980$08416c80$@in> <000601cb581d$eb969000$c2c3b000$@in> <000301cb5cda$d8397060$88ac5120$@in> <001f01cb5d86$50a93b60$f1fbb220$@in> <002701cb5d8a$a141b8a0$e3c529e0$@in> <003501cb5d92$79b0cf30$6d126d90$@in> Message-ID: Bipin, Admit it, you want purchase land in Kashmir. Why are you asking me to stop talking? You havent been able to answer any of the questions being posed to you. Anupam On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Thanks do not talk I will be pleased. Thanks for educating me for article > 370! > > > > Industrialization means not only mines. So many industries are there which > can be develop looking to that area environment. > > > > > > *From:* anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, September 26, 2010 9:03 PM > > *To:* Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin Trivedi, > > You have no idea where article 370 has been implemented apart from Kashmir > and where AFSPA has been enforced. It is pointless to talk to someone who > have no knowledge or is not even willing to discuss the implications of such > acts. Article 370 prohibits the purchase of land anyone, even those who are > married to kashmiris. I think it is from here that you are making the > argument about industrialization in Kashmir. The moment article 370 is > repealed, you will have everyone racing to kashmir from india and set up > mines over. you speak for the industry, for rampant capitalism, which > kashmir has been protected from. you want land in kashmir, a piece of cake > so that you can turn that into a tourist's paradise and mint tonnes of > money. the outcomes are seen Sir. now you have militant outfits, then you > will gangs looting people every day. what are you talking about? kya bolte > hoon? gujarat banaye kashmir ko? > > anupam > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > Thanks for your view. Can you please provide history behind article 370? I > am least concerned in which states article 370 is applicable. I am talking > it in general. If you know you can tell, I will be pleased. > > > > > > From: Anjuman Ara Begum [mailto:anju.azad at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 8:01 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: anupam chakravartty; sarai-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Dear Bipin, > > I am sure you will get more opportunities to show your ignorance about the > history behind article 370 if you continue in this thread of discussion. > > also i hope you will also be able to name the ' two other states' where > AFSPA is in force. > > > > Best regards > > anjuman > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > I believe that Article 370 is useless and must be remove from all the > states. This law restricts industrial development and ultimately > unemployment remains there. Earlier I have made lots of communication on > this topic, if you have not read I will send it to you separately on your > request. > > > > Allotted money does not utilize fully for the respected state is common > problem for all the states as lots of money goes in between and not > applicable to Kashmir only. > > > > Paramilitary force lower cadre who obeys the order only might not knowing > about protesters, but top brass who is in charge of forces are fully aware > with the problem. > > > > I have full right to put my view and as a Indian I am alerting common > people > of Kashmiri, who are Indian citizens also, that do not come in the trap of > separatist. > > > > Normally when the border states facing its own sovereignty threats from > across the border, laws like AFSPA come into effect. Kashmir is altogether > different issue to continue AFSPA, while other 2 states this law is > prevailing for different reason and whether to remove or not can be decided > jointly by state/central government. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:55 PM > To: SUNDARA BABU; sarai list; bipin > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Dear Bipin, > > 1. Can you prove that on going demonstrations and protests has anything to > do with Article 370 or as a consequence of tax payer's money being diverted > to protect the so called special privileges of Kashmiris? If article 370 > guarantees special privileges to the Kashmiris, why is it that there is > discontentment among the people? > > 2. Can you also prove that heavy spending on Kashmir is exclusively for the > Kashmiris, who are now protesting? > > 3. Article 370 is applicable to two other states as well. Would you know > terms under which these two other states have been brought under this > article? > > 4. Is a paramilitary armed soldier equipped enough to understand the angst > of a protesting Kashmiri? I do not think so. It has never been the case. > > 5. For any conflict to be called internal or external, it needs two > conflicting sides to agree to the nature of conflict. Do both the sides say > whether this conflict is internal or external? Who are you to comment on > the > nature of this conflict? > > 6. Manipur and Assam (for ages now), similar to Kashmir has been asking for > the removal of AFSPA. These two states do not enjoy any priviledges under > Article 370. How do you explain the dissent against AFSPA in these two > states? > > I would appreciate if you could mull over these questions. I also > appreciate > that you are directly addressing my doubts and writings, which earlier was > absent despite my efforts to reply to every other thing that you posted > about Gujarat. Hoping to hear from you again Bipin. > > with regards, > Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:26 AM, SUNDARA BABU wrote: > > Dear Friends, > There is no evidence so far that Amnesty International is Anti-India or > Pro-Pakistani. Whether we like or not, with all its limitations, AMNESTY > INTERNATIONAL is THE world's biggest and greatest human rights organisation > so far. It hardly matters whether we agree to this or not. But its > statements seriously influences the rogue government forces and rebel > elements involving in terror acts, across the world alike, in reducing > violence. Moreover, HUMAN RIGHTS IS EVERYBOBY's BUSINESS. So please > highlight clearly what you think is a lie in the Amnesty Statement on J&K > and help them to correct the flaws. Every responsible INDIAN CITIZEN should > lend hands to strenghten such organisations to have a vibrant democratic > INDIA as a nation with justice and peace. > regards, > Sundara Babu > > > > > > > On 25 September 2010 23:25, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Anupam, > > > > Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more > rights > > than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. > I > > am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what's wrong in it. > You > > or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, > but > > fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on > > Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all > the > > states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since > > they > > are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue > > for > > their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does > not > > allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound > > to > > be there and they themselves are responsible for that. > > > > Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these > > years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily > on > > Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full > > right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying > > all > > the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many > > years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him > > foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to > > tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to > > say > > whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as > > rogue state. That's internal matter of India and India does not interfere > > in > > other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike > Pak. > > That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan > > being rogue state. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin, > > > > I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I > appreciate > > that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given > to > > this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter > > truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with > > responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried > > that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. > Yes > > that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be > > in > > the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, > so > > to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry > > about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most > of > > the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands > > which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of > > Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their > > rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the > protests > > or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of > > security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been > > encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or > > murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However, > > their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political > > prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment > > on > > every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are > > demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that > > the > > ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the > > elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities > > along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts > > about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can > we > > discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men > > ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis > > responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not > > only > > in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. > > > > You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said > > anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about > > the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction > > over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not > > consider > > that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very > conversely, > > in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out > of > > examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India > > thrives > > in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest > on > > the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if > the > > need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on > > building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a > > position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward > > would > > be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are > > however > > very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops > > or > > rescue work that was carried out during calamities. > > > > Thanks Anupam > > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Anupam, > > > > Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve > their > > boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our > > territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue > > Pakistan. > > > > But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that > is > > the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after > > achieving freedom... I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects > in > > the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of > > Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is". I am trying to alert the > > people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the > > lollipop > > of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your > situation > > will be even worse. Please understand this. That's all. > > > > I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was > > planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they > possess > > chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that > this > > was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that > > time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of > > life would have been saved. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM > > To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public > Statement > > on Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your > > comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after > > achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how > > the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure > > Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from > > separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if > it > > happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if > > azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the > > territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their > > aspirations. > > And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those > > who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your > freedom, > > those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so > > many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their > own > > freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such > > conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on > the > > agenda or consider the aspirations? > > > > is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do > > not > > give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, > > things > > about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of > > utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security > > perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the > > reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the > idea > > of territoriality of the state arises from such a position. > > > > > > > > Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US > > attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you > > talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where > are > > you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the > > Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal > > matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a > > message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the > > issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are > > remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate > > about > > Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this > issue, > > not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of > content, > > it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically > flawed. > > I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not > the > > correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. > > Even > > if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of > the > > state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own > sovereignty > > over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to > as > > a > > tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see > > the > > foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few > tyrants, > > who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are > > very > > personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last > > one > > and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions > like > > yours Bipin. > > > > Thanks > > Anupam > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi > wrote: > > Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own > > interest > > of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and > > don't > > advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove > > AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do > not > > interfere. > > > > When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They > > are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in > > between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to > > protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces? > > > > Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in > > Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. > Crooked > > separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total > > freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are > > Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom. > > > > What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally > > depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming > > separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state > > will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present > > India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak > > will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from > US, > > how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US. > > > > For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu > people > > than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely > prefer > > to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state > > and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only. > > > > But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir > realizes > > that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am > > sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free > > from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent > and > > if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to > happen > > if azadi is given to Kashmiri. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on > > Rising Deaths in Kashmir > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: gautam navlakha > > Date: 18 September 2010 20:24 > > Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising > > Deaths in Kashmir > > To: activist , asish gupta > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Khurram Parvez > > Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM > > Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > > Kashmir > > To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org * wrote: > > > > > > From: iteam at amnesty.org > > Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in > Kashmir > > To: iteam at amnesty.org > > Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM > > > > Dear friends > > > > Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in > Kashmir > > > > Best regards, > > South Asia Team > > Amnesty International > > International Secretariat > > 1 Easton Street > > London WC1X ODW > > United Kingdom > > Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500 > > Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157 > > > > http://www.amnesty.org > > http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org > > > > *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* * > > PUBLIC STATEMENT* > > > > AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010 > > > > 17 September 2010 > > > > * > > India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir* > > > > With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty > International > > calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect > for > > the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by > > police. > > > > With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the > > Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use > > firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the minimum > > force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat > > of > > death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of > > firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to > protect > > life. > > > > Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in > > Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by > the > > security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings have been > > at > > the hands of police and paramilitary forces. > > > > An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting > in > > July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its call > to > > the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough > > investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces > > responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be > brought > > to justice. > > > > In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others > > injured > > in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force > > (CRPF) > > paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held > > demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel. > > > > Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones > at > > the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the > > Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators attacked > two > > Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools. > > > > At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty > > International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot > > protestors who were throwing stones at them. > > > > A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been > under > > 24 hour curfew for the last five days. > > > > Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict > > enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty > > International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the > > authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary > > personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on > > the > > situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have > > suspended their work. > > > > Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of > > expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such > > as > > are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent > > with the state's other human rights obligations. In view of the key role > of > > journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression, > > which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty International > > calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain > > curfew > > passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out > > their > > professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues > of > > public concern. > > > > More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All > Party > > Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in > > Jammu > > and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian authorities to > > instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with > > demonstrations. > > > > The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial > > execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district. > > Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security > > forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have > intensified > > during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators > by > > security forces. > > > > The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of > > accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces > > (Jammu > > and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps - > > along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir. > > > > The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces, > > has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central > > Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few > of > > its districts. > > > > One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting > > organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to > > figure > > in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit > Srinagar > > on 20 September. > > > > Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless > > specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in > > practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with > > impunity. > > > > Ends/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Working to protect human rights worldwide > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company > > registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 > with > > registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet > communications > > are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal > > responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this > e-mail. > > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically > > stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by > > Amnesty International for operational or business reasons. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > -- > SUNDARA BABU NAGAPPAN > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Anjuman Ara Begum > > Phone: +91-9954082155 (M)/ +91-9871262134 (Delhi) > > Skype: anjumanarabegum > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 27 17:44:26 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 05:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Film screening: "Where Have You Hidden My New Moon Crescent" Message-ID: <228760.11745.qm@web51408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Department of Political Science, University of Delhi invites you for a FILM SHOW and DISCUSSION on KASHMIR: REPRESSION AND RESISTANCE "Where Have You Hidden My New Moon Crescent" (28 mins) A film on 'Missing Persons' and ‘Enforced Disappearances’ Speakers: IFFAT FATIMA (Film Director) PARVEENA AHANGAR (Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons, Kashmir) Venue: 2nd Floor, Lecture Hall, Department of Political Science, Faculty of Social Sciences, University of Delhi (North Campus) (Opposite Daulat Ram College) Date: Wednesday, 29th Sept 2010 Time: 2 pm. Contact: Saroj Giri (Assistant Professor) Phone: 011 27666670 From: suvaid yaseen سويد ياسين From tapasrayx at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 06:51:32 2010 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray [Gmail]) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 06:51:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Biometric tech 'inherently fallible' Message-ID: Consider what this may say about our hugely expensive UID project. Tapas http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=12720 AUTOMATED BIOMETRIC RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGIES 'INHERENTLY FALLIBLE,' BETTER SCIENCE BASE NEEDED Sept. 24, 2010 — Biometric systems -- designed to automatically recognize individuals based on biological and behavioral traits such as fingerprints, palm prints, or voice or face recognition -- are "inherently fallible," says a new report by the National Research Council, and no single trait has been identified that is stable and distinctive across all groups. To strengthen the science and improve system effectiveness, additional research is needed at virtually all levels of design and operation. (See Full Report) "For nearly 50 years, the promise of biometrics has outpaced the application of the technology," said Joseph N. Pato, chair of the committee that wrote the report and distinguished technologist at Hewlett-Packard's HP Laboratories, Palo Alto, Calif. "While some biometric systems can be effective for specific tasks, they are not nearly as infallible as their depiction in popular culture might suggest. Bolstering the science is essential to gain a complete understanding of the strengths and limitations of these systems." From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 10:22:29 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:22:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA Message-ID: IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA New Delhi: Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association has raised questions over timing of the Indian Mujahideen email sent to media on September 19 after the Jama Masjid firing. JTSA said the mail was aimed at vitiating the campaign against the Batla House encounter. “It is surely a matter of surprise that this email resurrecting the spectre of IM should come at a time when there is a reluctant acknowledgement of Hindutva terror networks even within mainstream media and political establishment. Further, that the creators of the mail chose to send it on the second anniversary of the Batla House ‘encounter—just when the trials in the Delhi blasts case have begun in the sessions court. It appears almost that the mail was sent with the express purpose of vitiating the campaign against the Batla House ‘encounter’ and the ongoing trials,” JTSA said in a statement. The group has termed as bad policing the failure of the Delhi Police to trace the Jama Masjid shooters and sender of the mail but deciding to use the mail as evidence against Delhi blasts accused. “A week after the shootout at Jama Masjid when motorcycle-borne assailants shot at two foreign nationals, and the receipt of a dubious mail purportedly from IM claiming revenge for the killing of Atif and Sajid, the Delhi Police now intend to use the email as evidence against those arrested for Delhi blasts. This is yet another example of bad policing indulged in by the Delhi Police routinely. Unable to trace the assailants even days after the shoot out—which incidentally occurred practically next to a police station—unable even to trace the sender of the email, clueless and directionless, the Delhi Police hopes to cover up its inefficiencies by flogging the IM horse.” From aliens at dataone.in Tue Sep 28 21:25:53 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:25:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cb5f25$a29dcb70$e7d96250$@in> How Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association come to conclusion that the mail sent to media in the name of IM is fake or conspiracy of someone else? Do they have evidence? If it is false allegation will prove innocent automatically. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:22 AM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA New Delhi: Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association has raised questions over timing of the Indian Mujahideen email sent to media on September 19 after the Jama Masjid firing. JTSA said the mail was aimed at vitiating the campaign against the Batla House encounter. “It is surely a matter of surprise that this email resurrecting the spectre of IM should come at a time when there is a reluctant acknowledgement of Hindutva terror networks even within mainstream media and political establishment. Further, that the creators of the mail chose to send it on the second anniversary of the Batla House ‘encounter—just when the trials in the Delhi blasts case have begun in the sessions court. It appears almost that the mail was sent with the express purpose of vitiating the campaign against the Batla House ‘encounter’ and the ongoing trials,” JTSA said in a statement. The group has termed as bad policing the failure of the Delhi Police to trace the Jama Masjid shooters and sender of the mail but deciding to use the mail as evidence against Delhi blasts accused. “A week after the shootout at Jama Masjid when motorcycle-borne assailants shot at two foreign nationals, and the receipt of a dubious mail purportedly from IM claiming revenge for the killing of Atif and Sajid, the Delhi Police now intend to use the email as evidence against those arrested for Delhi blasts. This is yet another example of bad policing indulged in by the Delhi Police routinely. Unable to trace the assailants even days after the shoot out—which incidentally occurred practically next to a police station—unable even to trace the sender of the email, clueless and directionless, the Delhi Police hopes to cover up its inefficiencies by flogging the IM horse.” _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pkray11 at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 22:47:06 2010 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (Prakash K Ray) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:47:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Eminent Personalities Against Unique Identity Number (UID) Message-ID: Eminent Personalities Against `unique identity number’ (UID Number) STATEMENT The project that proposes to give every resident a `unique identity number’ is a matter of great concern for those working on issues of food security, NREGA, migration, technology, decentralisation, constitutionalism, civil liberties and human rights. The process of setting up the Authority has resulted in very little, if any, discussion about this project and its effects and fallout. The documents on the UIDAI website, and a recent draft law (the National Identification Authority Bill, which is also on the website) do not provide answers to the many questions that are being raised in the public domain. This project is intended to collect demographic data about all residents in the country. It is said that it will impact on the PDS and NREGA programmes, and plug leakages and save the government large sums of money. It would, however, seem that even basic procedures have not been followed before launching on such a massive project. Before it goes any further, we consider it imperative that the following be done: • Do a feasibility study: There are claims made in relation to the project, about what it can do for PDS and NREGA, for instance, which does not reflect any understanding of the situation of the situation on the ground. The project documents do not say what other effects the project may have, including its potential to be intrusive and violative of privacy, who may handle the data (there will be multiple persons involved in entering, maintaining and using the data), who may be able to have access to the data and similar other questions. • Do a cost:benefit analysis: It is reported that the UIDAI estimates the project will costs Rs 45,000 crores to the exchequer in the next 4 years. This does not seem to include the costs that will be incurred by Registrars, Enrollers, internal systems costs that the PDs system will have to budget if it is to be able to use the UID, the estimated cost to the end user and to the number holder. • In a system such as this, a mere statement that the UIDAI will deal with the security of the data is obviously insufficient. How does the UIDAI propose to deal with data theft? If this security cannot be reasonably guaranteed, the wisdom of holding such data in a central registry may need to be reviewed. • The involvement of firms such as Ernst & Young and Accenture raise further questions about who will have access to the data, and what that means to the people of India. • Constitutionality of this project, including in the matter of privacy, the relationship between the state and the people, security and other fundamental rights. Questions have been raised which have not been addressed so far, including those about – • Undemocratic process: UIDAI was set-up via a GoI notification as an attached office of the Planning Commission without any discussion or debate in the Parliament or civil society. In the year and a half of its inception, the Authority has signed MoUs with virtually all states and UTs, LIC, Petroleum Ministry and many banks. In July, the Authority circulated the draft NIA Bill (to achieve statutory status); the window for public feedback was two weeks. Despite widespread feedback and calls for making all feedback public, the Authority has not made feedback available. Further in direct contravention to the process of public feedback, the NIA Bill was listed for introduction in the Lok Sabha 2010 monsoon session • Privacy (It is only now that the DoPT is said to be working on a draft of a privacy law, but nothing is out for discussion even yet) • Surveillance: where this technology, and the existence of the UID number, and its working, could result in increasing the potential for surveillance • Profiling • Tracking • Convergence, by which those with access to state power, as well as companies, could collate information about each individual with the help of the UID number. National IDs have been abandoned in the US, Australia and the newly-elected British government. The reasons have predominantly been: costs and privacy. If it is too expensive for the US with a population of 308 million, and the UK with 61 million people, and Australia with 21 million people, it is being asked why India thinks it can prioritise its spending in this direction. In the UK, the Home Secretary explained that they were abandoning the project because it would otherwise be `intrusive bullying’ by the state, and that the government intended to be the `servant’ of the people, and not their `master’. Is there a lesson in it for us? In the late nineties, the Supreme Court of Philippines struck down the President’s Executive Order A.O 308 which instituted a biometric based national ID system calling it unconstitutional on two grounds – the overreach of the executive over the legislative powers of the congress and invasion of privacy. The same is applicable in India – UIDAI has been constituted on the basis of a GoI notification and there is a fundamental risk to civil liberties with the convergence of UID, NATGRID etc. The UIDAI is still at the stage of conducting pilot studies. The biometric pilot study has reportedly already thrown up problems especially among the poor whose fingerprints are not stable, and whose iris scans suffer from malnourishment related cataract and among whom the incidence of corneal scars is often found. The project is clearly still in its inception. The project should be halted before it goes any further and the prelude to the project be attended to, the public informed and consulted, and the wisdom of the project determined. The Draft Bill too needs to be publicly debated. This is a project that could change the status of the people in this country, with effects on our security and constitutional rights, and a consideration of all aspects of the project should be undertaken with this in mind. We, therefore, ask that: • The project be halted • A feasibility study be done covering all aspects of this issue • Experts be tasked with studying its constitutionality • The law on privacy be urgently worked on (this will affect matters way beyond the UID project) • A cost : benefit analysis be done • A public, informed debate be conducted before any such major change be brought in. List of signatories of a statement on the UID Justice VR Krishna Iyer, Retired Judge, Supreme Court of India Prof Romila Thapar, Historian K.G.Kannabiran, Senior Civil Liberties Lawyer Kavita Srivastava, PUCL and Right to Food Campaign Aruna Roy, MKKS, Rajasthan Nikhil Dey, MKKS, Rajasthan S.R.Sankaran, Retired Secretary, Government of India Deep Joshi, Independent Consultant Upendra Baxi, Jurist and ex-Vice Chancellor of Universities of Surat and Delhi Uma Chakravarthi, Historian Shohini Ghosh, Teacher and Film Maker Amar Kanwar, Film Maker Bezwada Wilson, Safai Karamchari Andolan Trilochan Sastry, IIMB, and Association for Democratic Reforms Prof. Jagdish Chhokar, ex- IIMA, and Association for Democratic Rights Shabnam Hashmi, ANHAD Justice A.P.Shah, Retired Chief Justice of High Court of Delhi From info at fondation-langlois.org Tue Sep 28 23:28:18 2010 From: info at fondation-langlois.org (Fondation Daniel Langlois) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:58:18 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] News from the Daniel Langlois Foundation Message-ID: Vera Frenkel: Mapping a Practice >From October 2 to December 4, the SBC Gallery of Contemporary Art (Montreal) presents Vera Frenkel : cartographie d'une pratique / Vera Frenkel: Mapping a Practice, curated by Sylvie Lacerte. Canadian artist Vera Frenkel is the focus of this hybrid exhibition that examines the work of this pioneer in new media art and the 2006 recipient of the Governor General's Award in Visual and Media Arts. Lacerte's synthesis brings archives and works together to reveal a little-known side of the artist's remarkable creative process that began in Montreal more than 40 years ago. The Daniel Langlois Foundation is hosting the Web version of the exhibition catalogue: http://www.fondation-langlois.org/Vera-Frenkel/ From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Tue Sep 28 23:47:19 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (cologneOFF6) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:17:19 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?CologneOFF_VI_in_Timisoara/Romania?= Message-ID: <20100928201719.D84E7B92.25D835DF@192.168.0.3> artvideoKOELN presents ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- After the first preview in September in Budapest, CologneOFF has its 2nd preview to be presented by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne on Simultan Festival Timisoara/Romania - 30 September - 2 October 2010 http://www.simultan.org These are the selected videos -->> Ulf Kristinansen (Norway) - The Care Bears - 2010, 3:00 Barry Morse (USA) - Mouse's Birthday - 2010, 3:35 Emeka Ogboh (Nigeria) - [dis] connection - 2009, 1:58 Ocusonic aka Paul O Donoghue (Ireland) - Why Do You Have a Beard? - 2010, 6:02 Denise Hood (USA) - Disconnect - 2009, 3:47 Irina Gabiani (Georgia) - Diachronicon - 2010, 1:00 Sai Hua Kuan (Singapore) - Space Drawing No. 5 - , 2009, 1:02 Pablo Fernandez-Pujol (Spain) - 142-143 - 2010, 2:10 Shahar Marcus (Israel) - The Homecoming Artist - 2007, 4:37 Mohamed Harb (Palestine) - Without Windows - 2009, 5:04 CologneOFF VI will have its 3rd preview on Delhi International Arts Festival 12/13 December 2010 at Alliance Francaise New Delhi/India, including the entire basic festival program - before CologneOFF VI will be launched as the official festival context of the ambious festival project --> CologneOFF 2011 - videoart ins a global context 1 January - 31 December 2011 http://coff.newmediafest.org/blog/?p=582 ---------------------------------------- CologneOFF - Cologne International Videoart Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org info [at] coff.newmediafest.org ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 10:35:31 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:35:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA In-Reply-To: <000301cb5f25$a29dcb70$e7d96250$@in> References: <000301cb5f25$a29dcb70$e7d96250$@in> Message-ID: Bipin Ji , Let us start believing that IM is a charitable organisation ...just like their counterpart across the border ...aka ...JuD Pawan On 9/28/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > How Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association come to conclusion that the mail > sent to media in the name of IM is fake or conspiracy of someone else? Do > they have evidence? > > If it is false allegation will prove innocent automatically. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:22 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla > encounter: JTSA > > IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA > > New Delhi: Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association has raised questions > over timing of the Indian Mujahideen email sent to media on September > 19 after the Jama Masjid firing. JTSA said the mail was aimed at > vitiating the campaign against the Batla House encounter. > “It is surely a matter of surprise that this email resurrecting the > spectre of IM should come at a time when there is a reluctant > acknowledgement of Hindutva terror networks even within mainstream > media and political establishment. Further, that the creators of the > mail chose to send it on the second anniversary of the Batla House > ‘encounter—just when the trials in the Delhi blasts case have begun in > the sessions court. It appears almost that the mail was sent with the > express purpose of vitiating the campaign against the Batla House > ‘encounter’ and the ongoing trials,” JTSA said in a statement. > > The group has termed as bad policing the failure of the Delhi Police > to trace the Jama Masjid shooters and sender of the mail but deciding > to use the mail as evidence against Delhi blasts accused. > > “A week after the shootout at Jama Masjid when motorcycle-borne > assailants shot at two foreign nationals, and the receipt of a dubious > mail purportedly from IM claiming revenge for the killing of Atif and > Sajid, the Delhi Police now intend to use the email as evidence > against those arrested for Delhi blasts. > > This is yet another example of bad policing indulged in by the Delhi > Police routinely. Unable to trace the assailants even days after the > shoot out—which incidentally occurred practically next to a police > station—unable even to trace the sender of the email, clueless and > directionless, the Delhi Police hopes to cover up its inefficiencies > by flogging the IM horse.” > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Sep 29 11:07:59 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:07:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Against_=60unique_identity_number?= =?windows-1252?q?=92_=28UID_Number=29?= Message-ID: <24A1314F-15C8-4C70-B174-238D8496A1DB@sarai.net> Eminent Personalities Against `unique identity number’ (UID Number) STATEMENT The project that proposes to give every resident a `unique identity number’ is a matter of great concern for those working on issues of food security, NREGA, migration, technology, decentralisation, constitutionalism, civil liberties and human rights. The process of setting up the Authority has resulted in very little, if any, discussion about this project and its effects and fallout. The documents on the UIDAI website, and a recent draft law (the National Identification Authority Bill, which is also on the website) do not provide answers to the many questions that are being raised in the public domain. This project is intended to collect demographic data about all residents in the country. It is said that it will impact on the PDS and NREGA programmes, and plug leakages and save the government large sums of money. It would, however, seem that even basic procedures have not been followed before launching on such a massive project. Before it goes any further, we consider it imperative that the following be done: • Do a feasibility study: There are claims made in relation to the project, about what it can do for PDS and NREGA, for instance, which does not reflect any understanding of the situation of the situation on the ground. The project documents do not say what other effects the project may have, including its potential to be intrusive and violative of privacy, who may handle the data (there will be multiple persons involved in entering, maintaining and using the data), who may be able to have access to the data and similar other questions. • Do a cost:benefit analysis: It is reported that the UIDAI estimates the project will costs Rs 45,000 crores to the exchequer in the next 4 years. This does not seem to include the costs that will be incurred by Registrars, Enrollers, internal systems costs that the PDs system will have to budget if it is to be able to use the UID, the estimated cost to the end user and to the number holder. • In a system such as this, a mere statement that the UIDAI will deal with the security of the data is obviously insufficient. How does the UIDAI propose to deal with data theft? If this security cannot be reasonably guaranteed, the wisdom of holding such data in a central registry may need to be reviewed. • The involvement of firms such as Ernst & Young and Accenture raise further questions about who will have access to the data, and what that means to the people of India. • Constitutionality of this project, including in the matter of privacy, the relationship between the state and the people, security and other fundamental rights. Questions have been raised which have not been addressed so far, including those about – • Undemocratic process: UIDAI was set-up via a GoI notification as an attached office of the Planning Commission without any discussion or debate in the Parliament or civil society. In the year and a half of its inception, the Authority has signed MoUs with virtually all states and UTs, LIC, Petroleum Ministry and many banks. In July, the Authority circulated the draft NIA Bill (to achieve statutory status); the window for public feedback was two weeks. Despite widespread feedback and calls for making all feedback public, the Authority has not made feedback available. Further in direct contravention to the process of public feedback, the NIA Bill was listed for introduction in the Lok Sabha 2010 monsoon session • Privacy (It is only now that the DoPT is said to be working on a draft of a privacy law, but nothing is out for discussion even yet) • Surveillance: where this technology, and the existence of the UID number, and its working, could result in increasing the potential for surveillance • Profiling • Tracking • Convergence, by which those with access to state power, as well as companies, could collate information about each individual with the help of the UID number. National IDs have been abandoned in the US, Australia and the newly- elected British government. The reasons have predominantly been: costs and privacy. If it is too expensive for the US with a population of 308 million, and the UK with 61 million people, and Australia with 21 million people, it is being asked why India thinks it can prioritise its spending in this direction. In the UK, the Home Secretary explained that they were abandoning the project because it would otherwise be `intrusive bullying’ by the state, and that the government intended to be the `servant’ of the people, and not their `master’. Is there a lesson in it for us? In the late nineties, the Supreme Court of Philippines struck down the President’s Executive Order A.O 308 which instituted a biometric based national ID system calling it unconstitutional on two grounds – the overreach of the executive over the legislative powers of the congress and invasion of privacy. The same is applicable in India – UIDAI has been constituted on the basis of a GoI notification and there is a fundamental risk to civil liberties with the convergence of UID, NATGRID etc. The UIDAI is still at the stage of conducting pilot studies. The biometric pilot study has reportedly already thrown up problems especially among the poor whose fingerprints are not stable, and whose iris scans suffer from malnourishment related cataract and among whom the incidence of corneal scars is often found. The project is clearly still in its inception. The project should be halted before it goes any further and the prelude to the project be attended to, the public informed and consulted, and the wisdom of the project determined. The Draft Bill too needs to be publicly debated. This is a project that could change the status of the people in this country, with effects on our security and constitutional rights, and a consideration of all aspects of the project should be undertaken with this in mind. We, therefore, ask that: • The project be halted • A feasibility study be done covering all aspects of this issue • Experts be tasked with studying its constitutionality • The law on privacy be urgently worked on (this will affect matters way beyond the UID project) • A cost : benefit analysis be done • A public, informed debate be conducted before any such major change be brought in. List of signatories of a statement on the UID Justice VR Krishna Iyer, Retired Judge, Supreme Court of India Prof Romila Thapar, Historian K.G.Kannabiran, Senior Civil Liberties Lawyer Kavita Srivastava, PUCL and Right to Food Campaign Aruna Roy, MKKS, Rajasthan Nikhil Dey, MKKS, Rajasthan S.R.Sankaran, Retired Secretary, Government of India Deep Joshi, Independent Consultant Upendra Baxi, Jurist and ex-Vice Chancellor of Universities of Surat and Delhi Uma Chakravarthi, Historian Shohini Ghosh, Teacher and Film Maker Amar Kanwar, Film Maker Bezwada Wilson, Safai Karamchari Andolan Trilochan Sastry, IIMB, and Association for Democratic Reforms Prof. Jagdish Chhokar, ex- IIMA, and Association for Democratic Rights Shabnam Hashmi, ANHAD Justice A.P.Shah, Retired Chief Justice of High Court of Delhi _______________________________________________ Urbanstudygroup mailing list Urban Study Group: Reading the South Asian City To subscribe or browse the Urban Study Group archives, please visit https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/urbanstudygroup From ujwalasam at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:16:23 2010 From: ujwalasam at gmail.com (Ujwala Samarth) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:16:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Actors for Goa theatre-environment project Message-ID: THEATRE RESIDENCY: Looking for six actors for an innovative performance that seamlessly mixes dance, movement, voice and music. Residency will held in the second week of October, in Goa and actors would need to be in residence for at least two weeks and out of communication with the rest of the world. While actors will be paid handsomely by theatre standards in this country for the residency, their additional income will come from the performance tour that will follow. The duration of the performance tour thus far has been kept open-ended but can be expected to be at least another one month. Ideally, actors may need to commit themselves to three months away from hearth and home. Prior theatre experience is not mandatory and in many cases can be distinctly disadvantageous. The five-person selection panel aged twenty to sixty will make efforts to keep biases based on creed, colour, gender, language, status etc., to the side. Given that the residency is in Goa and will tour Goa extensively, preference will be given to those who live in Goa and show a strong attachement to the state. Actors need to be above the age of eighteen and can be of any shape, size, complexion etc. They need to bring with them a passion for life and the arts, the fear of what is happening to the forests and water in the name of 'development', and the belief that a powerful theatre can awaken the public. Actors would welcome arduous rehearsal and training and a work schedule that can be as long as twelve hours, Sundays included. CONTACT: hartman.desouza at gmail.com -- From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Sep 29 21:11:01 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:11:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Who=92s_Who_in_Nilekani=92s_UID_Dr?= =?windows-1252?q?eam_Team?= Message-ID: <17BDF214-CF1A-4FDA-AC61-C3D31B215310@sarai.net> SEPTEMBER 29, 2010, 10:41 AM IST Who’s Who in Nilekani’s UID Dream Team AFP/Getty ImagesThe UID project is considered by many specialists the most technologically and logistically complex national identification effort ever attempted. http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2010/09/29/whos-who-in-nilekanis-uid-dream-team/ Nandan Nilekani, chairman of India’s Unique Identification Authority, assembled an elite group of software engineers, tech-savvy bureaucrats and biometric experts to build a system that could issue unique 12- digit numbers to all the country’s 1.2 billion people, based on fingerprints and iris scans. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh officially launches that massive identification effort Wednesday. Most of the tech gurus that designed the unique ID system were of Indian-origin, and volunteered to help the effort without pay. Here’s a look at some of the people on Nilekani’s Dream Team: Srikanth Nadhamuni. The E-Governor Mr. Nadhamuni was tech employee #1 and became the host in Bangalore for the other engineers who designed the core technology behind the world’s most complex national ID program. After spending 16 years in Silicon Valley as a technologist and entrepreneur at companies including Sun Microsystems, Silicon Graphics and Intel, Mr. Nadhamuni came back to India to work on social-oriented tech projects. He formed the e-Governments Foundation in 2003 with Mr. Nilekani to push for improved municipal government services. Mr. Nadhamuni and the others rented an apartment to use as an office near his home in a gated Bangalore community called Adarsh Palm Retreat. He now heads the unique ID technology team. Pramod Varma The Transactions Expert Shortly after Mr. Nilekani was tapped to lead the unique ID effort, Mr. Varma called him from the U.S and said he wanted to sign on. He had just been reading Mr. Nilekani’s book, “Imagining India,” a call to action for the country’s government to solve persistent development problems. Mr. Varma, an Infosys alumnus, had helped start a Boston- area company that specialized in complex inventory management systems for retailers like JC Penney and Target. His firm processes 25 million orders daily for Best Buy alone. “That’s the kind of inventory system we’re looking for at UID,” he says Mr. Nilekani told him. Mr. Varma was one of the first five at the Bangalore apartment. R.S. Sharma The Bureaucratic Brains Mr. Nilekani knew the unique ID effort wasn’t all about technology. He would need someone with a deep knowledge of the Indian government to win over skeptics who wanted to protect their bureaucratic fiefdoms. Early on, he brought in Mr. Sharma, a 55-year old bureaucrat from Jharkhand state with background in sanitation and science, to serve as de facto CEO. Unusually tech-savvy for a government official, Mr. Sharma programmed the first version of the software where unique ID applicants’ demographic information gets entered. He was responsible for hiring and struck deals with various state government agencies and public sector banks to help with sign-up. He brought the post office on board to deliver 1.2 billion unique numbers to Indians via mail. “Technology is a very important part of this, but it’s essentially a governance project,” he says. Wyly Wade The Development Guru Mr. Wade, a World Bank consultant who has been coming to India for 14 years and lives in New Delhi now, agreed to advise Mr. Nilekani on the project’s intersections with India’s welfare programs. One major goal of issuing unique identity numbers is to root out corruption in the distribution of benefits ranging from food to health insurance. Falsified and fake identification papers help people siphon away billions of dollars of such aid every year from its intended beneficiaries. Mr. Wade says the program can give government great insight into how its development schemes are working in practice, but said India needs to be proactive about putting in place robust privacy protections. Though he isn’t a technologist, he worked closely with the team in Bangalore. “It was a Silicon Valley startup inside the Indian government. It might as well have been in someone’s garage,” he says. Salil Prabhakar The Fingerprints Specialist Mr. Prabhakar literally wrote the book on biometrics – or at least a widely used one called the “Handbook of Fingerprint Recognition.” He took periodic leaves from his biometrics company beginning in the fall of 2009 to help the Bangalore team. He also scouted other major national ID and biometrics projects around the world, first at an industry conference in Tampa and then a workshop organized by the World Bank in New Delhi. He says the tight timeline Mr. Nilekani gave the group – issuing the first unique numbers by March 2011 – was a source of anxiety. “We wondered sometimes, can we pull it off? What’s the plan B?” he said. But in the end, what’s being put in place in villages across India now is pretty much what got launched in that Bangalore apartment. “We slept there. We worked there,” he says. “The first designs of the entire system were put together in that room.” From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:28:24 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:28:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA In-Reply-To: References: <000301cb5f25$a29dcb70$e7d96250$@in> Message-ID: You are absolutely right Pawan about the charitable organizations - just like Shiva Sena, MNS, RSS, Bajranj Dal, VHP - they are all registered to be charitable organizations, armed with FCRA and other certifications to make them run. Bipin ji, please read the news properly to see how not only JTSA but a whole lot of other people are debating whether IM actually exists or not. thanks On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Bipin Ji , > > Let us start believing that IM is a charitable organisation ...just > like their counterpart across the border ...aka ...JuD > > Pawan > > On 9/28/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> How Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association come to conclusion that the mail >> sent to media in the name of IM  is fake or conspiracy of someone else? Do >> they have evidence? >> >> If it is false allegation will prove innocent automatically. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] >> On Behalf Of Javed >> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:22 AM >> To: sarai list >> Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla >> encounter: JTSA >> >> IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA >> >> New Delhi: Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association has raised questions >> over timing of the Indian Mujahideen email sent to media on September >> 19 after the Jama Masjid firing. JTSA said the mail was aimed at >> vitiating the campaign against the Batla House encounter. >> “It is surely a matter of surprise that this email resurrecting the >> spectre of IM should come at a time when there is a reluctant >> acknowledgement of Hindutva terror networks even within mainstream >> media and political establishment. Further, that the creators of the >> mail chose to send it on the second anniversary of the Batla House >> ‘encounter—just when the trials in the Delhi blasts case have begun in >> the sessions court. It appears almost that the mail was sent with the >> express purpose of vitiating the campaign against the Batla House >> ‘encounter’ and the ongoing trials,” JTSA said in a statement. >> >> The group has termed as bad policing the failure of the Delhi Police >> to trace the Jama Masjid shooters and sender of the mail but deciding >> to use the mail as evidence against Delhi blasts accused. >> >> “A week after the shootout at Jama Masjid when motorcycle-borne >> assailants shot at two foreign nationals, and the receipt of a dubious >> mail purportedly from IM claiming revenge for the killing of Atif and >> Sajid, the Delhi Police now intend to use the email as evidence >> against those arrested for Delhi blasts. >> >> This is yet another example of bad policing indulged in by the Delhi >> Police routinely. Unable to trace the assailants even days after the >> shoot out—which incidentally occurred practically next to a police >> station—unable even to trace the sender of the email, clueless and >> directionless, the Delhi Police hopes to cover up its inefficiencies >> by flogging the IM horse.” >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From yanivbin at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:52:52 2010 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:52:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Orissa to add 12 more specifications to UID Message-ID: Orissa to add 12 more specifications to UIDPTI | 08:09 PM,Sep 29,2010 http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfeed/news/orissa-to-add-12-more-specifications-to-uid/363616.html Bhubaneswar, Sept 30 (PTI) Orissa government today decided to include at least a dozen more specifications to the Unique Identity (UID), christened as "Aadhaar", a national project launched to document profile of every individual in the country. This was decided at a high level meeting attended by chief secretary, director census, Orissa and other officials. While UID would have details of an individual like his or her name, sex and other datas, the state government has decided to include information like card holders ration card number, BPL/APL number, NREGS data, Driving License number, PAN number, photo i-card number, passport number, kissan and credit card number, LPG consumer number, Rastriya Swasthya Vikas Yojana number, pension I-d number and pass book number. As the Central government is undertaking a big exercise to prepare UID, it would be appropriate to add some more data regarding a person, said chief secretary B K Patnaik adding that six important places in the state were identified to execute the gigantic work. Stating that the work for the bio-metric data collection for preparation of UID would start in December from eight KBK (Kalahandi-Balangir-Koraput) districts, he said demographic data capturing work had already been started by identifying as many as 95 lakh families. The people of Orissa could expect getting UID from May/June, 2011, an official said adding a sub-committee had been formed under the chairmanship of additional development commissioner (ADC) where secretaries of housing and urban development, IT, labour and employment and civil supplies and consumer welfare department, were members.The director of census will negotiate between the state government and the Centre. From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 04:18:01 2010 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 04:18:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fish workers to observe protest day on October 29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fish workers to observe protest day on October 29 http://www.thehindu.com/2010/09/29/stories/2010092955720300.htm Staff Reporter Agitation against Coastal Regulation Zone Notification 2010 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mass conventions planned on November 21 Plea to increase kerosene quota for fish workers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KOLLAM: Fish workers across the country are gearing up to launch strong agitations demanding the withdrawal of the Coastal Regulation Zone Notification 2010 issued recently by the Union Ministry of Environment and Forests (MoEF), Kerala Swathantra Matsyathozhilali Federation State president T. Peter has said. At a press conference here on Tuesday, Mr. Peter said the decisions in this connection was taken at a meeting of the National Fish workers' Forum (NFF) in Chennai on September 25 and 26. October 29 will be a ‘protest day.' There will be mass conventions on World Fishermen Day on November 21. On October 1,5 the NFF will submit petitions and suggestions about the notification to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi and leaders of other political parties. Prior to issuing the notification, ten consultations were held across the country to obtain the views of the fishing community and other communities living along the coast. But the notifications do not reflect the opinions expressed, Mr. Peter said. Demands The notification seemed to totally ignore the long-standing demand of fishing communities for their ‘right to live along the coast.' According to the notification, 12 nautical miles of sea will come under the MoEF and not the Union Ministry for Agriculture. This will prove harmful to the fishing community. The notification neither protects the fishing community nor the coastal environment, he said. Mr. Peter called for an increase in the kerosene quota to fishermen. Under the present quota, fishermen end up paying more for fuel than what they earn from fishing. In order to protect the traditional fishing sector more kerosene at fair price should be allocated. He suggested the setting up of kerosene bunks under government control. Federation general secretary P.P. John, Kollam district president S. Francis and secretary A. Andrews were also present. http://www.keralafishworkers.in http://www.alakal.net From sen.jhuma at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 06:52:33 2010 From: sen.jhuma at gmail.com (Jhuma Sen) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:22:33 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Peace and Democracy Vigil on 2nd October in New York Message-ID: Dear All,, There is a Peace and Democracy Vigil on 2nd Oct in Union Square, New York. The Open Letter and Petition (see below) addressed to the Prime Minister will be handed over to the consulate general of India. Please endorse and circulate widely. Best Jhuma Dear Friends, Please see the open letter and petition addressed to the PM of India, to be handed over to the consulate general of India, during the Peace and Democracy Vigil on Oct 2, 2010, in New York (for a flyer for the event, see below). https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1SnX2OcEfvUeqxVx0dMdAV6qG4cuHjfZ0g_75qDmi0QQ&authkey=CPGOx6UG&hl=en&pli=1# Please send your individual and organisational endorsements to either of us (at the following emails). And also circulate widely among your friends and colleagues. It would be good if you could provide an organisational/institutional/other affiliation with your name (optional). Please send you signature in by Friday, October 1st. In solidarity, Preeti Sampat (preeti.sampat at gmail.com), Siddhartha Mitra (mitra.siddhartha at gmail.com), Kasturi Basu (kasturi.basu at gmail.com). P.S. 1. Facebook event page linking to the vigil : http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=134423113271443 Please RSVP if you are planning to attend. 2. The flyer to the vigil is at : https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1fqvGZ5mC2QWp3Q02Q7_t6MmY8NukC7MPaxEWAtx9bmQ&hl=en&authkey=CJqJ8fUE. Please circulate widely. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 10:02:14 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:02:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA In-Reply-To: References: <000301cb5f25$a29dcb70$e7d96250$@in> Message-ID: My ignorance .... I always thought Shiv Sena and MNS are registered as political organisation. Since we live in a sickular country , I would agree to what you say . Else the commies would come running after me with red flag in their hand. Pawan On 9/29/10, Javed wrote: > You are absolutely right Pawan about the charitable organizations - > just like Shiva Sena, MNS, RSS, Bajranj Dal, VHP - they are all > registered to be charitable organizations, armed with FCRA and other > certifications to make them run. > > Bipin ji, please read the news properly to see how not only JTSA but a > whole lot of other people are debating whether IM actually exists or > not. > > thanks > > > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Pawan Durani > wrote: >> Bipin Ji , >> >> Let us start believing that IM is a charitable organisation ...just >> like their counterpart across the border ...aka ...JuD >> >> Pawan >> >> On 9/28/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> How Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association come to conclusion that the >>> mail >>> sent to media in the name of IM  is fake or conspiracy of someone else? >>> Do >>> they have evidence? >>> >>> If it is false allegation will prove innocent automatically. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >>> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] >>> On Behalf Of Javed >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:22 AM >>> To: sarai list >>> Subject: [Reader-list] IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla >>> encounter: JTSA >>> >>> IM mail aimed to vitiate campaign against Batla encounter: JTSA >>> >>> New Delhi: Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association has raised questions >>> over timing of the Indian Mujahideen email sent to media on September >>> 19 after the Jama Masjid firing. JTSA said the mail was aimed at >>> vitiating the campaign against the Batla House encounter. >>> “It is surely a matter of surprise that this email resurrecting the >>> spectre of IM should come at a time when there is a reluctant >>> acknowledgement of Hindutva terror networks even within mainstream >>> media and political establishment. Further, that the creators of the >>> mail chose to send it on the second anniversary of the Batla House >>> ‘encounter—just when the trials in the Delhi blasts case have begun in >>> the sessions court. It appears almost that the mail was sent with the >>> express purpose of vitiating the campaign against the Batla House >>> ‘encounter’ and the ongoing trials,” JTSA said in a statement. >>> >>> The group has termed as bad policing the failure of the Delhi Police >>> to trace the Jama Masjid shooters and sender of the mail but deciding >>> to use the mail as evidence against Delhi blasts accused. >>> >>> “A week after the shootout at Jama Masjid when motorcycle-borne >>> assailants shot at two foreign nationals, and the receipt of a dubious >>> mail purportedly from IM claiming revenge for the killing of Atif and >>> Sajid, the Delhi Police now intend to use the email as evidence >>> against those arrested for Delhi blasts. >>> >>> This is yet another example of bad policing indulged in by the Delhi >>> Police routinely. Unable to trace the assailants even days after the >>> shoot out—which incidentally occurred practically next to a police >>> station—unable even to trace the sender of the email, clueless and >>> directionless, the Delhi Police hopes to cover up its inefficiencies >>> by flogging the IM horse.” >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 10:12:28 2010 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:12:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd:VAMP takes on documentary film-maker In-Reply-To: <6CBA06F3-D889-465E-9A19-BAE9AF5C5724@gmail.com> References: <6CBA06F3-D889-465E-9A19-BAE9AF5C5724@gmail.com> Message-ID: http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/09/29/prostitutes-film-mocks-belittles-workers-portrays "Prostitutes of God:" Film Mocks, Belittles Sex Workers 13Share By Bebe Loff September 29, 2010 - 4:03pm Bebe Loff's blog | Printer-friendly version |Login or register to post comments |ShareThis [image: Bebe Loff's picture] Last week, four episodes of a film entitled *Prostitutes of God*were posted on VBS.TV, which is owned by Vice Magazine. *Prostitutes of God* producer Sarah Harris, spent time with members of Veshya Anyay Mukti Parishad (meaning ‘Prostitutes’ Freedom from Injustice’) or "VAMP," and let her into their lives, their families and their workplace. The result? Films that are inaccurate and misrepresentative, and insulting to the people who agreed to participate and to the Hindu culture. VAMP was formed in 1996 and now works with more than 5000 women, men, and transgenders in sex work to promote and protect their human rights and health. The group covers six districts in Western Maharashtra and two in North Karnataka. VAMP has been internationally recognised by groups like Human Rights Watch for their contribution to human rights and for their work in HIV/AIDS prevention. However, you would not know any of this from Harris’ film, which is full of stereotypes and representations of Indian culture that are designed to mock and belittle. In addition, Harris’ film puts people in danger-- of stigma, discrimination and misinformation—through her uninformed and judgemental editorial lens. In a recent interview of Harris in the UK Independent (LINK)—in which she describes her interest in sex work as having originated when she spent time as a volunteer “with a charity in southern India which rescues victims of sex trafficking—Harris recounts someone who told her that HIV/AIDS is like “plucking a bunch of grapes. As soon as a woman is infected, then her whole family becomes infected.” This ignorance and irresponsibility runs rampant throughout *Prostitutes of God*. One case in point is that of Belavva. The film maker wrongly states that the "Devadasi" religious ritual demands that poor families traffic their daughters into prostitution (that is dedicate them to the goddess Yellama). She then states that when Belavva was young her family sent her to work for a landlord who asked her parents to dedicate her - or pimp her out. This is stated, not implied. It is not true, neither in the instance of the individual concerned, nor with respect to Hinduism. Sadly there are many more examples throughout the film, examples that prompted VAMP to issue the following rebuttal: It is to be hoped that a person would pretty sure of their evidence when making these sorts of allegations to the world. Sarah Harris has managed to misconstrue most of what she has reported, has exploited a trusting community in the worst possible ways, and has produced a series of films that are extraordinarily offensive. She has demonstrated racism and has behaved in ways reminiscent of the most unpleasant forms of colonialism. She has abused the poorest of people for her own ends. To manipulate poor people to meet one’s ends is blameworthy. It is reprehensible to betray the trust of a most vulnerable people merely to make a film. To, in addition, vilify and disparage a culture and religious beliefs, as Sarah Harris and VBS TV have done, requires either wilful ignorance or a determination to produce work that panders to the worst type of media sensationalism imaginable. The people in the film are part of a community that wishes to tell their stories and be understood by a broad audience, but we will not stand by while we are being misrepresented to the world. It is to be hoped that a person would be pretty sure of their evidence when making these sorts of allegations to the world. Sarah Harris has managed to misconstrue most of what she has reported, has exploited a trusting community in the worst possible ways, and has produced a series of films that are extraordinarily offensive. She has demonstrated racism and has behaved in ways reminiscent of the most unpleasant forms of colonialism. Sarah Harris and VBS must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. VAMP members are people with rights including reputational rights. From drew at futureeverything.org Thu Sep 30 20:28:55 2010 From: drew at futureeverything.org (drew at futureeverything.org) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 07:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] FutureEverything at the Manchester Weekender this Sunday Message-ID: <62668.93.97.230.180.1285858735.squirrel@2010.futureeverything.org> FutureEverything Presents Manchester Camerata and ArtCollider at the Manchester Weekender- two exciting free events this Sunday. Manchester Camerata and FutureEverything team up to present Camerata’s principal cellist, Hannah Roberts, who is widely recognised as one of the most outstanding cellists of her generation, and sound artist Andrew Deakin in a live collaborative performance. This kaleidoscopic production will see Hannah and Andrew explore Bach’s stunning unaccompanied Cello Suites. This is followed by a hands-on workshop featuring The ArtCollider, a project that enables artists around the world to collaborate in a globally networked studio. Led by an international media artist, this workshop gives participants the chance to create audiovisual art projects from live VJing to visual programming with the Collider Infrastructure. Meanwhile, remote participants can provide footage from different locations, as well as process (modify, remix, transform) footage created in the workshop. Sunday 3rd October, Performance: 12.30-1.30, Workshop: 1.30-5.30 Madlab, 36-40 Edge St, Northern Quarter, Manchester. Tickets to both events are free but very limited, please sign up here- http://futureeverythingpresentsmanchestercamerata.eventbrite.com/ http://futureeverythingpresentsartcollider.eventbrite.com/ From fsrnkashmir at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 21:18:41 2010 From: fsrnkashmir at gmail.com (Shahnawaz Khan) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:18:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Fwd=3A_The_Indian_version_of_the_m?= =?windows-1252?q?ap_named_=93Jammu_and_Kashmir=94_is_a_cartographi?= =?windows-1252?q?c_illusion=2C?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *WORLD KASHMIR DIASPORA ALLIANCE* * ** * *A patina of fiction guides India's policy in Kashmir* Since January 2009, the weekly news magazine The Economist has been banned or censored in India 31 times, more than any other country. The main reason for censorship is the publication of a map of Kashmir that does not comply with the Indian version. As a result, Indian authorities stamp “Illegal” across it. The twist is that the “illegal” map is in fact an accurate depiction of Jammu and Kashmir, with due appreciation of Pakistani and Chinese-controlled territories. A cursory look at the map of India shows Kashmir sitting atop a vast land mass. Despite being the site of decades of misery and violence, Kashmir enjoys pride of place. Secular Indian politicians and Hindu fundamentalists alike describe it as the taj, or crown, of India. Amid that triumphalism, the sufferings of Kashmiris are drowned out. When Kashmiris rebel, and the brutal state response results in innocent blood spilt, the world takes momentary notice. On such occasions, India almost always blames Kashmiri dissent on Pakistan, Islam or terrorism. For some time now, the militant group Lashkar-i-Taiba has provided a convenient straw man. Indian authorities have blamed it for orchestrating stone throwing by Kashmiri youths who are actually protesting murders by the Indian forces. The Indian version of the map named “Jammu and Kashmir” is a cartographic illusion, a state cobbled together out of disparate cultural, ethnic and linguistic groups. The British sold it to a local Hindu chieftain who had aided them against the Sikhs. Gulab Singh, the “buyer” of the kingdom, had little regard for its inhabitants, a majority of whom were Muslims. In 1947, the borders were redrawn according to the fantasy of Jawaharlal Nehru, India’s first prime minister and Kashmiri by descent. India and Pakistan took over, and an intractable dispute was born that has cursed the region ever since. Long before, China had refused to accept the border arrangements between the British Empire, Afghanistan and Russia in the northern area of Kashmir. This position was maintained after the communist takeover in 1949 and led to the Sino-Indian war in 1962. This ended with the Chinese taking control of a large north-eastern portion known as Aksai Chin. At present, Kashmir is divided between India, Pakistan and China – India controls the majority of the territory in the central and southern areas totalling 141,338 square kilometres. Pakistan’s northwest portion, known as Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan, covers 85,846 square kilometres. The area under Chinese control consists of 37,555 square kilometres of mainly deserted territory, but with precious water resources thanks to its proximity to the Karakoram mountain range. India’s “legal” map, found everywhere from government stationery to administrative reports and postal stamps to surveys, is based on an elaborate hoax, in which the whole of Kashmir belongs to India. The map is taught in schools, often with a fundamentalist religious zeal, creating generations of ignorant, and often militant, Indians who are unwilling to entertain any view other than the official line. This has frozen India’s political process. As a Kashmiri born under Indian occupation, I was taught the same “Indian geography”. It was much later that I realised this geographical delusion represents an elaborate denial of history – the unfulfilled Indian promises of holding a plebiscite to allow Kashmiris to determine their own future. The relic of the colonial map has stolen the democratic rights of Kashmiris. Whenever Kashmiris seek self-determination, India ruthlessly clamps down on them. By continuously advancing myths about geography and re-writing history, India portrays Kashmiri demands for justice as a grave threat, not only to India’s integrity as a nation-state, but also against the Bharat Mata, the Hindu concept of India as a sacred religious space. Another long-running theme is references to “Pakistan-occupied Kashmir”. In early 1994, at the height of the Kashmiri resistance, the Indian parliament unanimously passed a special resolution reiterating that the whole of Jammu and Kashmir belonged to India. The resolution also demanded: “Pakistan must vacate the areas of the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir, which they have occupied through aggression.” Just last week, the Pakistani government, under pressure after recent deaths during Kashmir protests, called on India to “review the practice of describing Jammu and Kashmir as its integral part”. The Indian reaction was unequivocal. SM Krishna, the external affairs minister, responded that Pakistan is in “illegal occupation of some parts of Jammu and Kashmir... It is desirable that they vacate that [the Pakistani part] and then start advising India as to how to go about doing things in Kashmir.” India often talks about “Pakistani-occupied Kashmir” but never mentions Aksai Chin, the area under Chinese control since 1962. There was no mention of China in the 1994 special resolution. In fact, such demands are never made to the Chinese. Kashmiris see this as a duplicitous position that avoids facing China but seeks confrontation with Pakistan, which has significantly less military power. This self-delusional fiction about Kashmir’s origins and the heavy military presence mean that there is no end in sight for the Kashmir conflict. The ongoing Kashmiri protests have so far claimed more than 100 civilian lives, with thousands injured, mostly by the guns of the Indian armed forces. In a region that includes three nuclear powers and nearly half the world’s population, where both Hindu and Muslim extremism is on the rise, such obduracy threatens calamity. To exorcise the ghosts of the region, India must undo its own fable that has compromised its conscience and morality. An honest lesson in geography could be just the start. *Murtaza Shibli is the editor of recently published book on the London bombings 7/7: Muslim Perspectives and the secretary general of the World Kashmir Diaspora Alliance.* From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 21:50:15 2010 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:50:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: VAMP Sign on letter to VBS.Tv reg. Prostitutes of God. In-Reply-To: <222247.7388.qm@web112604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <222247.7388.qm@web112604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I need people to provide affiliations of organizations and/or degrees and positions (whatever is applicable to them), otherwise it won't have any effect. Individuals are welcome too but say activist, consultant whatever pls. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: meena seshu Date: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 8:36 PM Subject: [sexualityinstitute2002] VAMP Sign on letter to VBS.Tv reg. Prostitutes of God. To: feministsindia at yahoogroups.com, paulo-longo-research-initiative at googlegroups.com, Global Working Group on HIV and Sex Work Policy , nswp-member-list at lists.nswp.org, sexualityinstitute2002 at yahoogroups.co.in, "2007 Sexuality, Gender and Rights Institute" , vawg-hivcampaign at googlegroups.com, nnsw at yahoogroups.com If you can send your endorsements to *vampadvocacy at gmail.com - *even one line saying yes! is fine. We will compile it and send it to VBS.Tv Please forward to other lists. An Open Letter to VBS TV Last week four short films began screening on VBS.TV (http://VBS.TV) under the title "Prostitutes of God". The film-maker Sarah Harris ingratiated herself with VAMP whose members agreed to allow her to film them. What resulted are films that are both insulting to the people who agreed to participate, and misrepresent the culture, religion and context in which the women portrayed do sex work. It must be noted that those portrayed did not sign release forms. To manipulate people to meet one’s own ends is reprehensible. To, in addition disparage a culture and religious beliefs, as Sarah Harris and VBS TV have done, requires either wilful ignorance or a determination to produce work that panders to the worst type of sensation seeking. The end result is a documentary that does not depict reality or raise issues related to sex work in any meaningful manner. Veshya Anyay Mukti Parishad (‘Prostitutes’ Freedom from Injustice’) or "VAMP" was set up in 1996 by SANGRAM, Sangli, Maharashtra. This collective now works with a human rights perspective with more than 5000 women, men and transgender people in sex work. The Collective covers six districts in Western Maharashtra and two in North Karnataka. It has been internationally recognised by groups like Human Rights Watch for its contribution to human rights and for its work in limiting the spread of HIV/AIDS. Instead of depicting this reality of empowered women going about their important work of dealing with violations of human rights, women’s rights, right to health and livelihood, Sarah Harris chooses to portray them as pimps or helpless victims. One case in point is that of Belavva. The film maker wrongly states that the "Devadasi" religious ritual demands that poor families traffic their daughters into prostitution (that is dedicate them to the goddess Yellama). She then implies that when Belavva was young her family sent her to work for a landlord who asked her parents to dedicate her - or pimp her out. This is not true, neither in the instance of the individual concerned, nor with respect to the religion as practiced locally. Then, and horrifically, without permission and in violation of all ethics, she adds that Belavva has HIV and is infecting others, presumably on a daily basis. The film maker then states (again without any evidence) that when Belavva dies her 8 year old sister will take her place - presumably because she will be trafficked by her parents or someone else. Here are some of the statements made by Sarah Harris and published by VBS. They are not based on fact and/or are calculated to belittle/sensationalise: - Girls dedicated to the Goddess Yellamma will become sex slaves; - 3,000 girls are dedicated each year; - Anita is a brothel owner (she is a sex worker not a brothel owner); - Religious ritual allows poor families to pimp out their daughters; - Devadasi ceremony condones child prostitution; - Families are offered a fee for their daughters; - Garish Hindu icons; and fat Hindu gods, blue skin and gold bikinis. Unfortunately, there is more. In response to this offensive racist film that is premised on baseless allegations, VAMP has produced a 3.5 min clip ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16OGyssJTvo) countering the distorted perspective in the film. The women from Sangli present their incisive views about sex work; religion and faith; livelihoods; issues of consent; ethics and cross-cultural sensitivities while making documentary films. In the age of the Internet, women in countries far away who used to be the objects of white people's gaze with no right of reply now have access to the representations that are made of them, and the technological means to answer back. A naive westerner may seize the headlines, but there's now scope for there to be a debate and to bring those who in the past would have remained voiceless victims into that debate to represent themselves. It is a great opportunity to put the record straight.(The clip has been produced by *Sangli **Talkies*, the newly-launched video unit of SANGRAM / VAMP). While VAMP continues to explore possible legal and other actions to redress the violations detailed above, we ask that you upload the VAMP film in the comments section on your website. This would go some way toward not only allowing voice to the women of Sangli, but also providing much-needed debate on sensitive issues like sex work, livelihoods, choice and religion. In solidarity, 1. Shabana Kazi,VAMP 2. Meena Saraswathi Seshu, SANGRAM __._,_.___ Reply to sender| Reply to group| Reply via web post| Start a new topic Messages in this topic( 1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group [image: Yahoo! Groups] Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest• Unsubscribe• Terms of Use . __,_._,___