From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 01:29:15 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 01:29:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am truly horrified by these attacks. Very, very sorry to hear that this happened. Have no words that can adequately express my disgust. On 31/10/10 10:31 PM, "shuddha at sarai.net" wrote: > Dear all, the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections of > the media and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right wing > hooligans (including some on this list) is now being complemented by attacks > and vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It is not Ms. > Roy who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack her who > pre-arrange to have television OB vans in place while they attempt to ransack > her residence. Those interested may read the statement below by Arundhati > Roy in response to the most recent attack, best, > Shuddha --------------------------------------------------------------- SO > METHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT A mob of about a hundred people arrived > at my house at 11 this morning (Sunday October 31st 2010.) They broke through > the gate and vandalized property. They shouted slogans against me for my views > on K...ashmir, and threatened to teach me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times > Now and News 24 were already in place ostensibly to cover the event live. TV > reports say that the mob consisted largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila > Morcha (Women¹s wing). After they left, the police advised us to let them know > if in future we saw any OB vans hanging around the neighborhood because they > said that was an indication that a mob was on its way. In June this year, > after a false report in the papers by Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on > motorcycles tried to stone the windows of my home. They too were accompanied > by TV cameramen. What is the nature of the agreement between these sections > of the media and mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > which positions itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > attacks and demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > criminal trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media > then become accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that > some TV channels and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob > anger against me. In the race for sensationalism the line between reporting > news and manufacturing news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have > to be sacrificed at the altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated > that it does not intend to go ahead with the charges of sedition against me > and the other speakers at a recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. So the task > of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by right wing storm > troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced that they are > going to ³fix² me with all the means at their disposal including filing cases > against me all over the country. The whole country has seen what they are > capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. So, while the > Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the media and the > infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe in > mob justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > distract attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has > recently been named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif > in which several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of > the mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views > more dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > ideological alignment? Arundhati Roy October 31st > 2010 _________________________________________ reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 02:50:41 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 02:50:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, While I completely condemn the attacks, I wish to bring to your notice a response that I wrote in reply to Swapan Dasgupta's article titled "Deny Arundhati claim to fame" published in Sunday Pioneer, October 24, 2010. The link to it is below. I am putting it here now because it seems all the more relevant in the aftermath of the attack. Most comments to that article was mostly irrelevant and personal abuse at Ms Roy. Needlessly I was deeply saddened and was forced to write it. Nirguna said... "..........However, it is also a fact that the organisers were banking on spirited protests against Geelani to elevate a vicious message into a debate over free speech and democracy. The ease with which some TV channels fell into the trap was indicative of the larger gullibility of India's liberal establishment......." Dear Mr. Dasgupta, Hats off to you. Never once in your article you have tread beyond the issue and your opinion about it, which can be summarized in a nutshell in the two sentences from your article that I have quoted above. Your article vindicates me of the feeling of pity for those, who resort to taking personal jibes and potshots at her at every other opportunity (like a few readers in this forum and Ram Guha to cite an illustrious example). I find that in extremely poor taste. It’s not fair to extrapolate your disagreement to the guarded realm of personal attacks. People reacting at her with great spite (mostly without even caring to read or listen to what she has actually said and in what context, Arnab Goswami-one good example), is becoming boring day after day. I admire Ms Roy because there is less pretension and more consistency in what she writes and has been writing about. Her politics is clear. And most times even her most extreme rhetorics are deeply rooted in facts. And that she talks for a bunch of people about whom most mainstream celebrities/journalist donot talk about, is another thing that I admire. Her only fault is that she uses the language of the scum bags of our society, to undermine them. That media choses to carry her front page ( I was surprised to see a Hindu front page top story on her over the sedition charges) is not her fault. As you rightly said in your article, we are the ones who steer her into the throes of public domain, mostly through mindless personal attacks at her. We are the ones who deserve the blame, not her. October 31, 2010 2:41 AM the link to the comment: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3772668051228901931&postID=3675878958679405298 Article link: http://www.swapan55.com/2010/10/deny-arundhati-claim-to-fame.html PS: Nirguna is my blog name. regards Rajkamal On 11/1/10, SJabbar wrote: > I am truly horrified by these attacks. Very, very sorry to hear that this > happened. Have no words that can adequately express my disgust. > > > On 31/10/10 10:31 PM, "shuddha at sarai.net" wrote: > >> Dear all, > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections of >> the media > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right wing >> hooligans > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by attacks >> and > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It is not Ms. >> Roy > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack her who >> pre-arrange to > have television OB vans in place while they attempt to ransack >> her residence. > > Those interested may read the statement below by Arundhati >> Roy in response to > the most recent attack, > > best, >> > > Shuddha > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > SO >> METHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > A mob of about a hundred people arrived >> at my house at 11 this morning (Sunday > October 31st 2010.) They broke through >> the gate and vandalized property. They > shouted slogans against me for my views >> on K...ashmir, and threatened to teach > me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times >> Now and News 24 were already in place > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV >> reports say that the mob consisted > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila >> Morcha (Women¹s wing). After they > left, the police advised us to let them know >> if in future we saw any OB vans > hanging around the neighborhood because they >> said that was an indication that a > mob was on its way. In June this year, >> after a false report in the papers by > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on >> motorcycles tried to stone the windows of > my home. They too were accompanied >> by TV cameramen. > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections >> of the media and > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >> which positions > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >> attacks and > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >> criminal trespass > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media >> then become > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that >> some TV channels > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob >> anger against me. In > the race for sensationalism the line between reporting >> news and manufacturing > news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have >> to be sacrificed at the > altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated >> that it does not intend to > go ahead with the charges of sedition against me >> and the other speakers at a > recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. > > So the task >> of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by right > wing storm >> troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced that > they are >> going to ³fix² me with all the means at their disposal including > filing cases >> against me all over the country. The whole country has seen what > they are >> capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. So, > while the >> Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the media > and the >> infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe in >> mob > justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >> distract > attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has >> recently been > named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif >> in which > several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of >> the > mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views >> more > dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >> ideological > alignment? > > Arundhati Roy > October 31st >> 2010 > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open >> discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To >> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in >> the subject header. > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajkamal From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 03:38:22 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:08:22 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER References: <000001cb78c9$39a0a4e0$ace1eea0$@in> <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> Message-ID: <03AF79505D1E436793123EEA70B3CDBF@tara> Even if she did make some protest when the blood bath was on its peak, you wouldn't know. She wasn't prominent then, I believe. Except her sharing stage with that murderer SASG she has stuck to her principles. She was courageous enough to take on the Muslim extremists when they were after Taslima Nasreen when the government was pandering to those extremists. The risk she took could be very expensive but she didn't care. You must give that to her. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bipin Trivedi" To: "'Rajkamal Goswami'" Cc: "sarai-list" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER > Dear Rajkamal, > > Of course word chip I mean for cheap only as said by Aalok. Arundhati is > just publicity hunger nothing else. If she is really worrying for Kashmir > than where was she for 2 decades when bloodbath was created by few > Kashmiri > separatists and terrorists. Not a single word from her against these. Such > violent situation all these years effected heavily to common people of > Kashmir only. She never expressed any feeling for this proves that her > recent statement was just publicity stunt of her own. Perhaps you will > hear > some new booker like award for her! > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:29 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER > > Dear Trivediji, > > "she is just after negative and chip publicity" > > I wish to strongly contradict this view of yours. But before I do that > can you explain what do you mean by 'chip; here? > > Rajkamal > > On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> Guha says, "She's crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity >> fiend," Guha told Bangalore Mirror. "She hops from cause to cause, and > just >> look at the company she's keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah Geelani, > an >> ultimate bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an Islamic >> theocracy." >> >> While posting maoist topic discussion read my view on Arundhati as under: >> (1) When asked the question to Arundhati that most of people hate your > views >> and writing and believe your thought impractical. She replies, if whole >> of >> India hate me I have to believe I am wrong. Then why you waiting for, >> understand this and come back from your wrong belief now. This proves >> that >> she is just after negative and chip publicity. (2) Even government wants >> Arundhati to be mediator between the government and maoist, but she > denies. >> This is also creates doubt on her sincerity. What I think, she wants just >> mere publicity out of this and wants to create a show that she worried of >> tribal! By that way, she wants to increase sale of her books and reader >> audience. >> >> Same thing applicable now also. Kashmir problem is there since almost > after >> independence and its intensity increased since 2 decades, but I have not >> heard any comment earlier for this issue. So, why now? She always remain > of >> search of current hot topics and sensitized it to catch attention of >> media >> just for mere chip publicity. Dear Tara, you are right, after her shared >> stage with crook Geelani, many like you became her critics. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin Trivedi >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajkamal > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 03:56:38 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 03:56:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER In-Reply-To: <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> References: <000001cb78c9$39a0a4e0$ace1eea0$@in> <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Trivediji, While I respect your right to having a free opinion, I, at the same time wish to exercise my right: i.e. to disagree vehemently to your opinion. 1. Ms. Roy is not publicity hungry. Its the other way round. Its the popular print and electronic media people after sensational stories that are, and they find Ms. Roy as the perfect sacrificial doll each time Ms Roy writes/speaks something radically different (though not necessarily fantastic or untrue). 2. With regards the recent Kashmir-azadi cintroversy, all that Ms Roy did was give a talk at an obscure seminar in Delhi. The seminar (including what Ms Roy and other speakers said) would have remained obscure, but for the sensation-starved media! Ms Roy didn't shout at the top of her lungs from the rooftops demanding attention to what she spoke at the seminar. The media did. 3. Does Ms Roy happen to be so unfortunate that she won the booker prize before she started her politics/opinion came to be noticed? Was it her fault or the media's which jumped at the opportunity of publishing a booker winner! there are many more but for now i guess these will suffice. thanks and regards Rajkamal On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Rajkamal, > > Of course word chip I mean for cheap only as said by Aalok. Arundhati is > just publicity hunger nothing else. If she is really worrying for Kashmir > than where was she for 2 decades when bloodbath was created by few Kashmiri > separatists and terrorists. Not a single word from her against these. Such > violent situation all these years effected heavily to common people of > Kashmir only. She never expressed any feeling for this proves that her > recent statement was just publicity stunt of her own. Perhaps you will hear > some new booker like award for her! > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:29 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER > > Dear Trivediji, > > "she is just after negative and chip publicity" > > I wish to strongly contradict this view of yours. But before I do that > can you explain what do you mean by 'chip; here? > > Rajkamal > > On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> Guha says, "She's crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity >> fiend," Guha told Bangalore Mirror. "She hops from cause to cause, and > just >> look at the company she's keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah Geelani, > an >> ultimate bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an Islamic >> theocracy." >> >> While posting maoist topic discussion read my view on Arundhati as under: >> (1) When asked the question to Arundhati that most of people hate your > views >> and writing and believe your thought impractical. She replies, if whole of >> India hate me I have to believe I am wrong. Then why you waiting for, >> understand this and come back from your wrong belief now. This proves that >> she is just after negative and chip publicity. (2) Even government wants >> Arundhati to be mediator between the government and maoist, but she > denies. >> This is also creates doubt on her sincerity. What I think, she wants just >> mere publicity out of this and wants to create a show that she worried of >> tribal! By that way, she wants to increase sale of her books and reader >> audience. >> >> Same thing applicable now also. Kashmir problem is there since almost > after >> independence and its intensity increased since 2 decades, but I have not >> heard any comment earlier for this issue. So, why now? She always remain > of >> search of current hot topics and sensitized it to catch attention of media >> just for mere chip publicity. Dear Tara, you are right, after her shared >> stage with crook Geelani, many like you became her critics. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin Trivedi >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajkamal > > -- Rajkamal From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 04:13:00 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 04:13:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb78c9$39a0a4e0$ace1eea0$@in> <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> Message-ID: Dear All, I context of the argument one might find this profile of Ms Roy interesting. It was written well before she won the Booker! And that time, the media came after her because her novel sold like no other novel by an unpublished Indian ever (even NRI's like Rushdie's or Seth's). She was guarding her privacy jealously before the media got the whiff of it! I think that was the time when love-to-hate Ms Roy saga began taking roots! This is the link to that article published in Outlook (Sep 25, 1996). http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?202195 Regards Rajkamal On 11/1/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear Trivediji, > > While I respect your right to having a free opinion, I, at the same > time wish to exercise my right: i.e. to disagree vehemently to your > opinion. > > 1. Ms. Roy is not publicity hungry. Its the other way round. Its the > popular print and electronic media people after sensational stories > that are, and they find Ms. Roy as the perfect sacrificial doll each > time Ms Roy writes/speaks something radically different (though not > necessarily fantastic or untrue). > > 2. With regards the recent Kashmir-azadi cintroversy, all that Ms Roy > did was give a talk at an obscure seminar in Delhi. The seminar > (including what Ms Roy and other speakers said) would have remained > obscure, but for the sensation-starved media! Ms Roy didn't shout at > the top of her lungs from the rooftops demanding attention to what she > spoke at the seminar. The media did. > > 3. Does Ms Roy happen to be so unfortunate that she won the booker > prize before she started her politics/opinion came to be noticed? Was > it her fault or the media's which jumped at the opportunity of > publishing a booker winner! > > there are many more but for now i guess these will suffice. > > thanks and regards > Rajkamal > > On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> Dear Rajkamal, >> >> Of course word chip I mean for cheap only as said by Aalok. Arundhati is >> just publicity hunger nothing else. If she is really worrying for Kashmir >> than where was she for 2 decades when bloodbath was created by few >> Kashmiri >> separatists and terrorists. Not a single word from her against these. >> Such >> violent situation all these years effected heavily to common people of >> Kashmir only. She never expressed any feeling for this proves that her >> recent statement was just publicity stunt of her own. Perhaps you will >> hear >> some new booker like award for her! >> >> Thanks >> Bipin Trivedi >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:29 PM >> To: Bipin Trivedi >> Cc: sarai-list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER >> >> Dear Trivediji, >> >> "she is just after negative and chip publicity" >> >> I wish to strongly contradict this view of yours. But before I do that >> can you explain what do you mean by 'chip; here? >> >> Rajkamal >> >> On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> Guha says, "She's crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity >>> fiend," Guha told Bangalore Mirror. "She hops from cause to cause, and >> just >>> look at the company she's keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah >>> Geelani, >> an >>> ultimate bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an Islamic >>> theocracy." >>> >>> While posting maoist topic discussion read my view on Arundhati as >>> under: >>> (1) When asked the question to Arundhati that most of people hate your >> views >>> and writing and believe your thought impractical. She replies, if whole >>> of >>> India hate me I have to believe I am wrong. Then why you waiting for, >>> understand this and come back from your wrong belief now. This proves >>> that >>> she is just after negative and chip publicity. (2) Even government wants >>> Arundhati to be mediator between the government and maoist, but she >> denies. >>> This is also creates doubt on her sincerity. What I think, she wants >>> just >>> mere publicity out of this and wants to create a show that she worried >>> of >>> tribal! By that way, she wants to increase sale of her books and reader >>> audience. >>> >>> Same thing applicable now also. Kashmir problem is there since almost >> after >>> independence and its intensity increased since 2 decades, but I have not >>> heard any comment earlier for this issue. So, why now? She always remain >> of >>> search of current hot topics and sensitized it to catch attention of >>> media >>> just for mere chip publicity. Dear Tara, you are right, after her shared >>> stage with crook Geelani, many like you became her critics. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Bipin Trivedi >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> Rajkamal >> >> > > > -- > Rajkamal > -- Rajkamal From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 05:30:09 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 05:30:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb78c9$39a0a4e0$ace1eea0$@in> <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> Message-ID: Dear All, I just happened to finish reading perhaps the first non-fiction publication of Ms Roy (the link of which is provided below). I will just bullet point a few unique things that eventually became the signature style of her non-fiction writing. * Length: She might have pioneered the long-essay in popular weeklies of India. But given her obscurity during the pre-booker era (this was published in 1994), the essay was published in two parts. * Politics: A clear politics of socialism seems to be present throughout the essay, which eventually became more pronounced and evident in her later works. She talks at length about individual struggles, resistance, social justice, inequities and inadequacies of human society, rape, injustice, caste & geneder based exploitation, socio-economic dominance of high caste, power struggles, violence ..... *Endorsing the unlikely: In 1994, which mainstream/obscure/independent/celebrity writer had the proclivity/guts to write a completely biased, highly opinionated though highly persuasive and eloquent piece defending the basic rights of a person to his/her own life-story (in this particualr case: Phoolan Devi)! *Blunt activism: Now people accuse her of gaining mileage out of her celebrity status. I would say that she is perhaps the only celebrity in India who has stood her grounds, her morality, her ideology, her politics and her imagination throughout her adult life, her social-economic-celebrity status notwithstanding. Perhaps her writing, apart from anything else bears testimony to it. When she wrote this essay in 1994, neither she was an acclaimed author, (read financially stable) nor was she popular. On the contrary she was almost broke (financially) and this essay cost her a contract with channel 4 of UK (one of the financiers of Bandit Queen)! In one of her interviews she claimed that she can't write/imagine with a benefit (read money, fame and all the imagined vices that today she is claimed to starve for) in mind! I never doubted the fact that she meant every word of it! *Fiercely ethical: No personal attacks, no potshots, no hits below the belt! *Lucid prose: I lack words to describe it! *Well researched and mostly stating/relying on facts: No wonder she is invited by Harvard, MIT, Oxford, and Cambridge so often! There are many more but I will stop here as I am no Ms Roy! Link: http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq1.html http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq2.html Regards Rajkamal On 11/1/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear All, > > I context of the argument one might find this profile of Ms Roy > interesting. It was written well before she won the Booker! And that > time, the media came after her because her novel sold like no other > novel by an unpublished Indian ever (even NRI's like Rushdie's or > Seth's). She was guarding her privacy jealously before the media got > the whiff of it! I think that was the time when love-to-hate Ms Roy > saga began taking roots! > > This is the link to that article published in Outlook (Sep 25, 1996). > > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?202195 > > Regards > Rajkamal > > On 11/1/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: >> Dear Trivediji, >> >> While I respect your right to having a free opinion, I, at the same >> time wish to exercise my right: i.e. to disagree vehemently to your >> opinion. >> >> 1. Ms. Roy is not publicity hungry. Its the other way round. Its the >> popular print and electronic media people after sensational stories >> that are, and they find Ms. Roy as the perfect sacrificial doll each >> time Ms Roy writes/speaks something radically different (though not >> necessarily fantastic or untrue). >> >> 2. With regards the recent Kashmir-azadi cintroversy, all that Ms Roy >> did was give a talk at an obscure seminar in Delhi. The seminar >> (including what Ms Roy and other speakers said) would have remained >> obscure, but for the sensation-starved media! Ms Roy didn't shout at >> the top of her lungs from the rooftops demanding attention to what she >> spoke at the seminar. The media did. >> >> 3. Does Ms Roy happen to be so unfortunate that she won the booker >> prize before she started her politics/opinion came to be noticed? Was >> it her fault or the media's which jumped at the opportunity of >> publishing a booker winner! >> >> there are many more but for now i guess these will suffice. >> >> thanks and regards >> Rajkamal >> >> On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> Dear Rajkamal, >>> >>> Of course word chip I mean for cheap only as said by Aalok. Arundhati is >>> just publicity hunger nothing else. If she is really worrying for >>> Kashmir >>> than where was she for 2 decades when bloodbath was created by few >>> Kashmiri >>> separatists and terrorists. Not a single word from her against these. >>> Such >>> violent situation all these years effected heavily to common people of >>> Kashmir only. She never expressed any feeling for this proves that her >>> recent statement was just publicity stunt of her own. Perhaps you will >>> hear >>> some new booker like award for her! >>> >>> Thanks >>> Bipin Trivedi >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:29 PM >>> To: Bipin Trivedi >>> Cc: sarai-list >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER >>> >>> Dear Trivediji, >>> >>> "she is just after negative and chip publicity" >>> >>> I wish to strongly contradict this view of yours. But before I do that >>> can you explain what do you mean by 'chip; here? >>> >>> Rajkamal >>> >>> On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>>> Guha says, "She's crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity >>>> fiend," Guha told Bangalore Mirror. "She hops from cause to cause, and >>> just >>>> look at the company she's keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah >>>> Geelani, >>> an >>>> ultimate bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an >>>> Islamic >>>> theocracy." >>>> >>>> While posting maoist topic discussion read my view on Arundhati as >>>> under: >>>> (1) When asked the question to Arundhati that most of people hate your >>> views >>>> and writing and believe your thought impractical. She replies, if whole >>>> of >>>> India hate me I have to believe I am wrong. Then why you waiting for, >>>> understand this and come back from your wrong belief now. This proves >>>> that >>>> she is just after negative and chip publicity. (2) Even government >>>> wants >>>> Arundhati to be mediator between the government and maoist, but she >>> denies. >>>> This is also creates doubt on her sincerity. What I think, she wants >>>> just >>>> mere publicity out of this and wants to create a show that she worried >>>> of >>>> tribal! By that way, she wants to increase sale of her books and reader >>>> audience. >>>> >>>> Same thing applicable now also. Kashmir problem is there since almost >>> after >>>> independence and its intensity increased since 2 decades, but I have >>>> not >>>> heard any comment earlier for this issue. So, why now? She always >>>> remain >>> of >>>> search of current hot topics and sensitized it to catch attention of >>>> media >>>> just for mere chip publicity. Dear Tara, you are right, after her >>>> shared >>>> stage with crook Geelani, many like you became her critics. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Bipin Trivedi >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>>> in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rajkamal >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rajkamal >> > > > -- > Rajkamal > -- Rajkamal From samvitr at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 09:15:27 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 09:15:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently you abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it is their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right to expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She should be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known terrorists of the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so meek now that you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, obsene.... Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can continue gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are millions out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some "expression". Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > Dear all, > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections of the > media > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right wing hooligans > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by attacks and > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It is not Ms. > Roy > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack her who > pre-arrange to > have television OB vans in place while they attempt to ransack her > residence. > > Those interested may read the statement below by Arundhati Roy in response > to > the most recent attack, > > best, > > Shuddha > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > A mob of about a hundred people arrived at my house at 11 this morning > (Sunday > October 31st 2010.) They broke through the gate and vandalized property. > They > shouted slogans against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > teach > me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > place > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted > largely of members of the BJP’s Mahila Morcha (Women’s wing). After they > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB > vans > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an indication > that a > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false report in the papers > by > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles tried to stone the > windows of > my home. They too were accompanied by TV cameramen. > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media and > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > trespass > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then become > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that some TV > channels > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob anger against > me. In > the race for sensationalism the line between reporting news and > manufacturing > news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have to be sacrificed at > the > altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated that it does not intend > to > go ahead with the charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > a > recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by > right > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced that > they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal including > filing cases against me all over the country. The whole country has seen > what > they are capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. > So, > while the Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the > media > and the infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe > in mob > justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > distract > attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > been > named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > ideological > alignment? > > Arundhati Roy > October 31st 2010 > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Samvit Rawal 9422037853 ----------------------------------------------------------- To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. - Franklin P. Adams From rashneek at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 09:25:59 2010 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 09:25:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: But was there an attack?Is demonstrating outside her house the same as attacking her.The Hindu reported that a mob attacked her and broke one flower pot. If Maoists are Gandhians with Guns and Geelani's demand and methods are legitimate how does one construe a hundred odd women demonstrating(mind you not throwing stones)... If this was an attack how does one describe burning of my house by the azaadi seekers... In the hall itself where Shuddha was on the podium a boy's shirt was torn and he was mandhandled by the same people who want right of free speech,simply because he disagreed and maybe shouted too.Is that attack or isnt that an attack? On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Samvit wrote: > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently you > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it is > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right to > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She should > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known terrorists > of > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so meek now that > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, obsene.... > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can continue > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > millions > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some "expression". > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net >wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections of the > > media > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right wing hooligans > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by attacks and > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It is not Ms. > > Roy > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack her who > > pre-arrange to > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt to ransack her > > residence. > > > > Those interested may read the statement below by Arundhati Roy in > response > > to > > the most recent attack, > > > > best, > > > > Shuddha > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > > > A mob of about a hundred people arrived at my house at 11 this morning > > (Sunday > > October 31st 2010.) They broke through the gate and vandalized property. > > They > > shouted slogans against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > > teach > > me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > > place > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted > > largely of members of the BJP’s Mahila Morcha (Women’s wing). After they > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB > > vans > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an indication > > that a > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false report in the papers > > by > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles tried to stone the > > windows of > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV cameramen. > > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media > and > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions > > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > > trespass > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then become > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that some TV > > channels > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob anger against > > me. In > > the race for sensationalism the line between reporting news and > > manufacturing > > news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have to be sacrificed > at > > the > > altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated that it does not > intend > > to > > go ahead with the charges of sedition against me and the other speakers > at > > a > > recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. > > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by > > right > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced > that > > they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal including > > filing cases against me all over the country. The whole country has seen > > what > > they are capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. > > So, > > while the Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the > > media > > and the infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe > > in mob > > justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > > distract > > attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > > been > > named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > > several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > > mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > > dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > > ideological > > alignment? > > > > Arundhati Roy > > October 31st 2010 > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Samvit Rawal > 9422037853 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > - Franklin P. Adams > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 10:13:28 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 10:13:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Samvit, You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free speech and the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first is enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To call Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who can only counter her political views with physical violence is a travesty. You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on people bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. sj On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently > you abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it > is their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > to expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She > should be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > terrorists of the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > meek now that you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > obsene.... Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > continue gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > millions out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > "expression". Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. On > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > > Dear all, > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections > of the > media > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > wing hooligans > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > attacks and > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It > is not Ms. > Roy > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > her who > pre-arrange to > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > to ransack her > residence. > > Those interested may read the statement below > by Arundhati Roy in response > to > the most recent attack, > > best, > > > Shuddha > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > A mob of about a hundred people > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > (Sunday > October 31st 2010.) They > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > They > shouted slogans > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > teach > me a > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > place > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted> > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After they > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB > > vans > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > indication > that a > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > report in the papers > by > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > tried to stone the > windows of > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > cameramen. > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > the media and > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > which positions > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > attacks and > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > criminal > trespass > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > media then become > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > that some TV > channels > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > inciting mob anger against > me. In > the race for sensationalism the line > between reporting news and > manufacturing > news is becoming blurred. So what > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > the > altar of TRP ratings? The > Government has indicated that it does not intend > to > go ahead with the > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > a > recent seminar > on Azadi for Kashmir. > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > have been taken on by > right > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > RSS have openly announced that > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > at their disposal including > filing cases against me all over the country. > The whole country has seen > what > they are capable of doing, the extent to > which they are capable of going. > So, > while the Government is showing a > degree of maturity, are sections of the > media > and the infrastructure of > democracy being rented out to those who believe > in mob > justice? I can > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > distract > attention > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > been > named > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > several > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > mainstream > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > dangerous than a > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > ideological > alignment? > > > Arundhati Roy > October 31st 2010 > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Samvit > Rawal 9422037853 ----------------------------------------------------------- T > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. - Franklin P. > Adams _________________________________________ reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 10:56:23 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 10:56:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rashneek, I'm surprised by your trying to pass off an act of hooliganism as a peaceful demonstration. Do you not see a fight taken to someone's doorstep as an attack? Arundhati is NOT a politician with x or y or z category security. Once you legitimize intimidation as the right of people or political parties to demonstrate you end up with the beginnings of a fascist state. Today it is Arundhati, tomorrow it can be you or me. Remember the so-called sex-scandal in Kashmir a few years ago? Mobs went and tore down the home of the alleged madam of the prostitution ring. It may sound like a bizarre comparison but its not. There you had a bunch of self-righteous people who did not wait for the trial of this woman but were convinced that her very presence in society contaminated it. So she had to be locked up and her home (which was a shack in a poor neighborhood) was to be razed to the ground so that not a trace remained of her. The impulse of your so-called demonstrators is hardly different. Arundhati Roy is a disease that must be removed, so let us try and put her behind bars and if we can't let us intimidate her by threatening her life and property. If the BJP wanted to counter her views they could have done so at public forums. Arundhati is not leading mobs to LK Advani's house. She speaks in public forums where everyone, including Panun Kashmir, have a right to attend and to voice their objections if need be. But to land up at someone's door with a hundred strong mob shouting abuse does not, by any stretch of the imagination fall within the limits of engaged debate in any civilized society. The Hindu report has Pradip Kishen, her husband, saying "the mob was abusive and broke through the front gate of the house.² This would fall under unlawful entry and other laws in the IPC. They were clearly trying to intimidate, if not bodily harm her as is clear from what Pradip says next: 'They were prevented from entering the house by the guard and servants.' Why do they need to do this if this was a peaceful demonstration? On 01/11/10 9:25 AM, "rashneek kher" wrote: > But was there an attack?Is demonstrating outside her house the same > as attacking her.The Hindu reported that a mob attacked her and broke > one flower pot. If Maoists are Gandhians with Guns and Geelani's demand and > methods are legitimate how does one construe a hundred odd women > demonstrating(mind you not throwing stones)... If this was an attack how does > one describe burning of my house by the azaadi seekers... In the hall itself > where Shuddha was on the podium a boy's shirt was torn and he was mandhandled > by the same people who want right of free speech,simply because he disagreed > and maybe shouted too.Is that attack or isnt that an attack? On Mon, Nov 1, > 2010 at 9:15 AM, Samvit wrote: > A classic example of > *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently you > abuse and slot others. > If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it is > their way of expression. > Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right to > expression" and neither does she > decide where to draw the line. She should > be knowing all this very well > since she keeps company of known terrorists > of > the ilk that were seen in > Delhi with her. Why do you feel so meek now that > you have to be sladerous?? > using words like.....hooligans, obsene.... > > Although I wish her good health > and safety so that she can continue > gallavanting from place to place, topic > to topic but then there are > millions > out there who get inspired by her and > want to teach her some "expression". > Thugs like her understand the language > of thugs, perhaps. > > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net > >wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > the disgusting and > obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections of the > > media > > and even, > unfortunately on a forum like this one by right wing hooligans > > (including > some on this list) is now being complemented by attacks and > > vandalism at > her residence, in the full glare of the media. It is not Ms. > > Roy > > who > seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack her who > > pre-arrange > to > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt to ransack her > > > residence. > > > > Those interested may read the statement below by Arundhati > Roy in > response > > to > > the most recent attack, > > > > best, > > > > > Shuddha > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > > > A mob of about a > hundred people arrived at my house at 11 this morning > > (Sunday > > October > 31st 2010.) They broke through the gate and vandalized property. > > They > > > shouted slogans against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > > > teach > > me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already > in > > place > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the > mob consisted > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s > wing). After they > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in > future we saw any OB > > vans > > hanging around the neighborhood because they > said that was an indication > > that a > > mob was on its way. In June this > year, after a false report in the papers > > by > > Press Trust of India (PTI) > two men on motorcycles tried to stone the > > windows of > > my home. They too > were accompanied by TV cameramen. > > > > What is the nature of the agreement > between these sections of the media > and > > mobs and criminals in search of > spectacle? Does the media which positions > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance > have a guarantee that the attacks and > > demonstrations will be non-violent? > What happens if there is criminal > > trespass > > (as there was today) or > even something worse? Does the media then become > > accessory to the crime? > This question is important, given that some TV > > channels > > and newspapers > are in the process of brazenly inciting mob anger against > > me. In > > the > race for sensationalism the line between reporting news and > > > manufacturing > > news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have to be > sacrificed > at > > the > > altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated > that it does not > intend > > to > > go ahead with the charges of sedition > against me and the other speakers > at > > a > > recent seminar on Azadi for > Kashmir. > > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to have been > taken on by > > right > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS > have openly announced > that > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > at their disposal including > > filing cases against me all over the country. > The whole country has seen > > what > > they are capable of doing, the extent > to which they are capable of going. > > So, > > while the Government is > showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the > > media > > and the > infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe > > in mob > > > justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > > > distract > > attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has > recently > > been > > named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in > Ajmer Sharif in which > > several people were killed and many injured. But why > are sections of the > > mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with > unpopular views more > > dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a > question of > > ideological > > alignment? > > > > Arundhati Roy > > October > 31st 2010 > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & > Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > > Samvit Rawal > 9422037853 > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > To err is human; > to forgive, infrequent. > - Franklin P. Adams > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rashneek > Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blo > gspot.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From samvitr at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 11:08:51 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:08:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Sonia, I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses democracy to tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they are in the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a frightened pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He apologized for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could one see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are similar to the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for Gautam to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After that statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!". Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". -Sam On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar wrote: > Dear Samvit, > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free speech and > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first is > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To call > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who can > only counter her political views with physical violence is a travesty. > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on people > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. > sj > > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently > > you > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it > > is > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > > to > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She > > should > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > > terrorists of > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > > meek now that > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > > obsene.... > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > > continue > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > > millions > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > > "expression". > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > > > On > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net >wrote: > > > > > Dear all, > > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections > > of the > > media > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > > wing hooligans > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > > attacks and > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It > > is not Ms. > > Roy > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > > her who > > pre-arrange to > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > > to ransack her > > residence. > > > > Those interested may read the statement below > > by Arundhati Roy in response > > to > > the most recent attack, > > > > best, > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > > > A mob of about a hundred people > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > > (Sunday > > October 31st 2010.) They > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > > They > > shouted slogans > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > > teach > > me a > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > > place > > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob > consisted> > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After they > > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB > > > > vans > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > > indication > > that a > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > > report in the papers > > by > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > > tried to stone the > > windows of > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > > cameramen. > > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > > the media and > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > > which positions > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > > attacks and > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > > criminal > > trespass > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > > media then become > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > > that some TV > > channels > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > > inciting mob anger against > > me. In > > the race for sensationalism the line > > between reporting news and > > manufacturing > > news is becoming blurred. So what > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > > the > > altar of TRP ratings? The > > Government has indicated that it does not intend > > to > > go ahead with the > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > > a > > recent seminar > > on Azadi for Kashmir. > > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > > have been taken on by > > right > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > > RSS have openly announced that > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > > at their disposal including > > filing cases against me all over the country. > > The whole country has seen > > what > > they are capable of doing, the extent to > > which they are capable of going. > > So, > > while the Government is showing a > > degree of maturity, are sections of the > > media > > and the infrastructure of > > democracy being rented out to those who believe > > in mob > > justice? I can > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > > distract > > attention > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > > been > > named > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > > several > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > > mainstream > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > > dangerous than a > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > > ideological > > alignment? > > > > > > Arundhati Roy > > October 31st 2010 > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Samvit > > Rawal > 9422037853 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > T > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > - Franklin P. > > Adams > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open > > discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- Samvit Rawal 9422037853 ----------------------------------------------------------- To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. - Franklin P. Adams From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 11:30:26 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 11:30:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Samvit, I have already replied to Rashneek. When you say ‘Roy uses democracy to tarnish democracy’ what do you mean? How can democracy be tarnished? Democracy is democracy and does not mean simply the holding of free and fair elections. It can be a healthy, robust democracy, in which case it needs to be accommodative of all shades of opinion or it can be a shallow democracy where rights are curtailed. If you say she lies about certain aspects of Indian democracy or she exaggerates its flaws, you have every right to counter them with facts, but to shut someone up simply because you disagree with them amounts to, in my opinion, tarnishing democracy. You say ‘she and her cronies bend on their knees when they are in the Valley.’ Again, whatever do you mean? She has political views that many people don’t agree with, but why should that mean that you need to counter those views with violence? You can debate with her, you can write an open letter to the newspapers and prove where she is mistaken in her views and let people decide who is wiser. And no, I have not heard her ‘calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!"’ On the contrary I have read her saying she finds that slogan offensive. And say, for argument’s sake she did call India ‘bhookha, nanga desh’. Isn’t it true that millions of our citizens still go to sleep hungry, that in the 21st c there are farmer’s suicides, massive urban poverty, and that millions have no access to health, sanitation and education? These are realities and challenges that India must face in an age of crony capitalism where the country’s wealth ends up in the hands of a few and not sweep them under the carpet. sj On 01/11/10 11:08 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > Dear Sonia, > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses democracy to > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they are in > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a frightened > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He apologized > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could one see > him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are similar to the > ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for Gautam to step > his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After that statement, the > goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!". > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more cultured > than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". > -Sam > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar wrote: >> Dear Samvit, >> You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free speech and >> the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence.  The first is >> enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law.  To call >> Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who can >> only counter her political views with physical violence is a travesty. >> You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on people >> bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >> sj >> >> >> On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >> >>> > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently >>> > you >> abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it >>> > is >> their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >>> > to >> expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She >>> > should >> be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >>> > terrorists of >> the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >>> > meek now that >> you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >>> > obsene.... >> >> Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >>> > continue >> gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are >>> > millions >> out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >>> > "expression". >> Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >> >> >> On >>> > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: >> >>> > >>> > Dear all, >>> > >>> > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections >>> > of the >>> > media >>> > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >>> > wing hooligans >>> > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >>> > attacks and >>> > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >>> > is not Ms. >>> > Roy >>> > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >>> > her who >>> > pre-arrange to >>> > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >>> > to ransack her >>> > residence. >>> > >>> > Those interested may read the statement below >>> > by Arundhati Roy in response >>> > to >>> > the most recent attack, >>> > >>> > best, >>> > >>> > >>> > Shuddha >>> > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >>> > >>> >  A mob of about a hundred people >>> > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >>> > (Sunday >>> > October 31st 2010.) They >>> > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >>> > They >>> > shouted slogans >>> > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >>> > teach >>> > me a >>> > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in >>> > place >>> > >>> > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted> >>> > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After they >>> > >>> > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB >>> > >>> > vans >>> > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >>> > indication >>> > that a >>> > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >>> > report in the papers >>> > by >>> > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >>> > tried to stone the >>> > windows of >>> > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >>> > cameramen. >>> > >>> > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >>> > the media and >>> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >>> > which positions >>> > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >>> > attacks and >>> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >>> > criminal >>> > trespass >>> > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >>> > media then become >>> > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >>> > that some TV >>> > channels >>> > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >>> > inciting mob anger against >>> > me. In >>> > the race for sensationalism the line >>> > between reporting news and >>> > manufacturing >>> > news is becoming blurred. So what >>> > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >>> > the >>> > altar of TRP ratings? The >>> > Government has indicated that it does not intend >>> > to >>> > go ahead with the >>> > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >>> > a >>> > recent seminar >>> > on Azadi for Kashmir. >>> > >>> > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >>> > have been taken on by >>> > right >>> > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >>> > RSS have openly announced that >>> > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >>> > at their disposal including >>> > filing cases against me all over the country. >>> > The whole country has seen >>> > what >>> > they are capable of doing, the extent to >>> > which they are capable of going. >>> > So, >>> > while the Government is showing a >>> > degree of maturity, are sections of the >>> > media >>> > and the infrastructure of >>> > democracy being rented out to those who believe >>> > in mob >>> > justice? I can >>> > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >>> > distract >>> > attention >>> > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently >>> > been >>> > named >>> > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which >>> > several >>> > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the >>> > mainstream >>> > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >>> > dangerous than a >>> > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >>> > ideological >>> > alignment? >>> > >>> > >>> > Arundhati Roy >>> > October 31st 2010 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion >>> > list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send >>> > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject >>> > header. >>> > To unsubscribe: >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Samvit >>> > Rawal >> 9422037853 >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> T >>> > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>  - Franklin P. >>> > Adams >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open >>> > discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To >>> > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >>> in >>> > the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Mon Nov 1 11:37:14 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 23:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Film Screenings in November Message-ID: <194670.89139.qm@web54404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Upcoming Film Screenings: 9th Third Eye Asian Film Festival, Oct 29-Nov 4, Bombay Screening of Five Turkish Films, Nov 1-3, Bombay 'Inshallah, Football' by Ashvin Kumar, Nov 2, Delhi 'All About My Mother' by Pedro Almodóvar (Spanish), Nov 4, Bombay 'Still Standing' by Pankaj Johar, Nov 6, Delhi A Collection of Children's Films, Nov 9-10, Delhi 'Mon Oncle' by Jacques Tati (French), Nov 10, Bombay Short Films presented by Shamiana, Nov 11, Ahmedabad 'Dream Bridge' by Anto, 'The Devil's Bridge' by Temir Birnazarov and 'In the Forest Hangs a Bridge' by Sanjay Kak, Nov 12, Chennai 'K. L. Saigal' by Yash Pal Chaudhary, Nov 12, Bombay Screening of Short Films, Nov 13, Delhi Short Films presented by Friends of Cinema, Nov 13, Bombay 'Jadui Pankh' by Nitin Das, Nov 14, Delhi 'The Passenger' by Stanislav Govorukhin (Russian), Nov 16, Delhi 'Harun-Arun' by Vinod Ganatra, Nov 20, Bombay Irish Film Festival, Nov 20-24, Delhi The 41st International Film Festival of India, Nov 22-Dec 2, Goa The 5th Nazariya Films for Peace Festival, Nov 23-25, Ahmedabad The Hindustani Music Film Festival, Nov 27-28, Jaipur Vikalp at Prithvi presents 'Qana' by Mohammadreza Abbasian (Persian), 'Dreadful Fate' by Dulam Satyanarayana, 'A Family Drama' by Tanmay Deo and Dnyanesh Zoting, 'Trishanku' by Dnyanesh Zoting, and 'Lapandav' (Hide and Seek) by Tanmay Deo, Nov 29, 7 pm, Prithvi House, Juhu, Bombay 'Urdu & Modern India' by Kaamna Prasad, Nov 30, Delhi For details of these screenings, visit the Discussion Board of the Vikalp at Prithvi group on Facebook. - Chandni PS: In case you want to share this list with others, you could use this shortened link: http://post.ly/18mc4 From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 11:48:15 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:48:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main47.asp?filename=Ne061110CoverstoryII.asp *Your critics are accusing you of not being sensitive to the plight of Kashmiri Pandits*. Well my critics should read what I write and hear what I say. But for the record: I think what has happened to the Kashmiri Pandits is a terrible tragedy. I think that the story of the Pandits is one that still remains to be told in all its complexity. Everyone was at fault, the militancy, the Islamist upsurge in the Valley, and the Indian government, which encouraged (even helped) the Pandits to flee when it should have done everything it could to protect them. Apart from losing everything they had and the only home they really knew, the poorest Pandits are still living in camps in Jammu in the worst conditions, and have had their voices hijacked by some well-heeled and noisy charlatans who feed off the destitution of their own people to get a lot of cheap political mileage. They have a vested interest in keeping them poor, so they can show them off, like animals in a zoo. Do you think that if the government really cared it could not have helped those poor people to better their lot? In all my visits to Kashmir I have sensed that ordinary Kashmiri Muslims feel a terrible sense of loss at the departure of the Pandits. If that is true, it is the duty of the leaders of Kashmir’s present struggle to get the Pandits to return. That needs more than rhetoric. Apart from it being the right thing to do, it would give them enormous moral capital. It would also help shape their vision of what kind of Kashmir they are fighting for. Let’s also not forget that there are a few thousand Pandits who have lived in the Valley through these troubled years, and unharmed. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:30 AM, SJabbar wrote: > Dear Samvit, > I have already replied to Rashneek. When you say ‘Roy uses democracy to > tarnish democracy’ what do you mean? How can democracy be tarnished? > Democracy is democracy and does not mean simply the holding of free and > fair > elections. It can be a healthy, robust democracy, in which case it needs > to > be accommodative of all shades of opinion or it can be a shallow democracy > where rights are curtailed. If you say she lies about certain aspects of > Indian democracy or she exaggerates its flaws, you have every right to > counter them with facts, but to shut someone up simply because you disagree > with them amounts to, in my opinion, tarnishing democracy. > > You say ‘she and her cronies bend on their knees when they are in the > Valley.’ Again, whatever do you mean? She has political views that many > people don’t agree with, but why should that mean that you need to counter > those views with violence? You can debate with her, you can write an open > letter to the newspapers and prove where she is mistaken in her views and > let people decide who is wiser. > > And no, I have not heard her ‘calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!"’ On > the contrary I have read her saying she finds that slogan offensive. And > say, for argument’s sake she did call India ‘bhookha, nanga desh’. Isn’t > it true that millions of our citizens still go to sleep hungry, that in the > 21st c there are farmer’s suicides, massive urban poverty, and that > millions > have no access to health, sanitation and education? These are realities > and > challenges that India must face in an age of crony capitalism where the > country’s wealth ends up in the hands of a few and not sweep them under the > carpet. > sj > > > > > > > On 01/11/10 11:08 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > > > Dear Sonia, > > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses democracy > to > > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they are > in > > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a frightened > > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He > apologized > > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could one > see > > him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are similar to > the > > ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for Gautam to > step > > his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After that statement, > the > > goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! > > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!". > > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur > > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more > cultured > > than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". > > -Sam > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar wrote: > >> Dear Samvit, > >> You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free speech > and > >> the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first is > >> enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To call > >> Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who > can > >> only counter her political views with physical violence is a travesty. > >> You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on > people > >> bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. > >> sj > >> > >> > >> On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > >> > >>> > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently > >>> > you > >> abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it > >>> > is > >> their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > >>> > to > >> expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She > >>> > should > >> be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > >>> > terrorists of > >> the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > >>> > meek now that > >> you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > >>> > obsene.... > >> > >> Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > >>> > continue > >> gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > >>> > millions > >> out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > >>> > "expression". > >> Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > >> > >> > >> On > >>> > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net >wrote: > >> > >>> > > >>> > Dear all, > >>> > > >>> > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections > >>> > of the > >>> > media > >>> > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > >>> > wing hooligans > >>> > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > >>> > attacks and > >>> > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It > >>> > is not Ms. > >>> > Roy > >>> > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > >>> > her who > >>> > pre-arrange to > >>> > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > >>> > to ransack her > >>> > residence. > >>> > > >>> > Those interested may read the statement below > >>> > by Arundhati Roy in response > >>> > to > >>> > the most recent attack, > >>> > > >>> > best, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Shuddha > >>> > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > >>> > > >>> > A mob of about a hundred people > >>> > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > >>> > (Sunday > >>> > October 31st 2010.) They > >>> > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > >>> > They > >>> > shouted slogans > >>> > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > >>> > teach > >>> > me a > >>> > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > >>> > place > >>> > > >>> > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob > consisted> > >>> > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After > they > >>> > > >>> > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any > OB > >>> > > >>> > vans > >>> > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > >>> > indication > >>> > that a > >>> > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > >>> > report in the papers > >>> > by > >>> > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > >>> > tried to stone the > >>> > windows of > >>> > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > >>> > cameramen. > >>> > > >>> > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > >>> > the media and > >>> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > >>> > which positions > >>> > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > >>> > attacks and > >>> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > >>> > criminal > >>> > trespass > >>> > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > >>> > media then become > >>> > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > >>> > that some TV > >>> > channels > >>> > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > >>> > inciting mob anger against > >>> > me. In > >>> > the race for sensationalism the line > >>> > between reporting news and > >>> > manufacturing > >>> > news is becoming blurred. So what > >>> > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > >>> > the > >>> > altar of TRP ratings? The > >>> > Government has indicated that it does not intend > >>> > to > >>> > go ahead with the > >>> > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > >>> > a > >>> > recent seminar > >>> > on Azadi for Kashmir. > >>> > > >>> > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > >>> > have been taken on by > >>> > right > >>> > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > >>> > RSS have openly announced that > >>> > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > >>> > at their disposal including > >>> > filing cases against me all over the country. > >>> > The whole country has seen > >>> > what > >>> > they are capable of doing, the extent to > >>> > which they are capable of going. > >>> > So, > >>> > while the Government is showing a > >>> > degree of maturity, are sections of the > >>> > media > >>> > and the infrastructure of > >>> > democracy being rented out to those who believe > >>> > in mob > >>> > justice? I can > >>> > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > >>> > distract > >>> > attention > >>> > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > >>> > been > >>> > named > >>> > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > >>> > several > >>> > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > >>> > mainstream > >>> > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > >>> > dangerous than a > >>> > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > >>> > ideological > >>> > alignment? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Arundhati Roy > >>> > October 31st 2010 > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion > >>> > list on media and the city. > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > To subscribe: send > >>> > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > subscribe in the subject > >>> > header. > >>> > To unsubscribe: > >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > List archive: > >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Samvit > >>> > Rawal > >> 9422037853 > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > >> T > >>> > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > >> - Franklin P. > >>> > Adams > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open > >>> > discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To > >>> > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > >>> in > >>> > the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: > >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 12:12:23 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:12:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR IS INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA In-Reply-To: <001001cb791c$5b774760$1265d620$@in> References: <001001cb791c$5b774760$1265d620$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin, What is the source of this information? I am very much interested. Thanks Anupam On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > 4 blunders made by our great leader Mr. Nehru as under. > > 1. In 1945, India was offered permanent membership by UN was denied by > Nehru > giving reason that china is more eligible for this than India! > 2. Indian army has reached almost to Lahore in 1948 war but strangely at > that time Nehru ordered army to come back and took Kashmir problem in the > international forum. One can describe this move as anti-national. Else, at > that time only we could have taken back POK and Kashmir would not be > problematic state and no Kashmir issue exists. > 3. Without any resistance, he accepted China's occupation of Tibet. Instead > of plainly accepting such thing on China demand, he would have keep mum at > that time. > 4. His biggest mistake is to keep Mr. Menon as NSA and keep him continued > even after he was giving wrong foreign advises many times. > > Everyone knows that Sardar Patel did some extraordinary tough job > successfully by convincing various kingdoms of India by any means and made > India united at that time. But, unfortunately for strange reason, Nehru > took > back charge of Kashmir from Sardar Patel and made blunders which we are > suffering till today. If it was with Sardar at that time than there want be > any Kashmir problem today. Along with Kashmir charge, Nehru wants Hyderabad > state charge also but with boldly and firmly Sardar denied it and today > Hyderabad/Andhra is not at all problematic state and feel proud to be with > India. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From subhachops at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 12:17:36 2010 From: subhachops at gmail.com (Subhash) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:17:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sport a beard to rise in Maharashtra ATS Message-ID: If they grow beards to catch the Muslim terrorists, I wonder what should they wear to catch the RSS bomb-makers? ---- Sport a beard to rise in Maharashtra ATS S Ahmed Ali, TNN, Nov 1, 2010, 01.53am IST MUMBAI: After sitting on the fence for six long years, the state home department has finally lent its seal of approval to a sensitive proposal allowing select policemen belonging to the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) to grow beards for undercover intelligence operations. While government was making up its mind, the state witnessed at least seven terrorist attacks: the horrific 26/11 siege in 2008 and the July 7 train blasts in 2006, among others—believed to be the handiwork of Pakistan-based Islamic terror group LeT—for all of which ATS is the nodal investigating agency. Additional director of police (ATS), Rakesh Maria, confirmed the development. Intelligence-gathering is the backbone of ATS, and to do that, if the job requires him (an ATS sleuth) to grow a beard, he should grow it. Besides, in last three months, the ATS has recruited more Muslims in the force in belief that this would help in countering terrorism, Maria said. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Sport-a-beard-to-rise-in-Maharashtra-ATS/articleshow/6849394.cms#ixzz140jPJTIb From patrice at xs4all.nl Mon Nov 1 12:29:08 2010 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 07:59:08 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR IS INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA In-Reply-To: References: <001001cb791c$5b774760$1265d620$@in> Message-ID: <25901d43fa0cabe70949d742b4ccec84.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Of course what Mr Trivedi (*) means is: PAKISTAN IS INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA! - but he won't dare write that, so this uncough firangi will do it for him... Cheers all the same, patrizio & Diiiinoos! (*) and many others with him > Dear Bipin, > > What is the source of this information? I am very much interested. Thanks > Anupam > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > >> 4 blunders made by our great leader Mr. Nehru as under. >> >> 1. In 1945, India was offered permanent membership by UN was denied by >> Nehru >> giving reason that china is more eligible for this than India! >> 2. Indian army has reached almost to Lahore in 1948 war but strangely at >> that time Nehru ordered army to come back and took Kashmir problem in >> the >> international forum. One can describe this move as anti-national. Else, >> at >> that time only we could have taken back POK and Kashmir would not be >> problematic state and no Kashmir issue exists. >> 3. Without any resistance, he accepted China's occupation of Tibet. >> Instead >> of plainly accepting such thing on China demand, he would have keep mum >> at >> that time. >> 4. His biggest mistake is to keep Mr. Menon as NSA and keep him >> continued >> even after he was giving wrong foreign advises many times. >> >> Everyone knows that Sardar Patel did some extraordinary tough job >> successfully by convincing various kingdoms of India by any means and >> made >> India united at that time. But, unfortunately for strange reason, Nehru >> took >> back charge of Kashmir from Sardar Patel and made blunders which we are >> suffering till today. If it was with Sardar at that time than there want >> be >> any Kashmir problem today. Along with Kashmir charge, Nehru wants >> Hyderabad >> state charge also but with boldly and firmly Sardar denied it and today >> Hyderabad/Andhra is not at all problematic state and feel proud to be >> with >> India. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin Trivedi >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 13:32:31 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:32:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. Strangely, even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans doesn't mean an attack is about to take place. Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' for the world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. Lets support them together. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: > Dear Sonia, > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses democracy to > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they are in > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a frightened > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He > apologized > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could one > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are similar > to > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for Gautam > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After that > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!". > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". > -Sam > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar wrote: > > > Dear Samvit, > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free speech > and > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first is > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To call > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who can > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a travesty. > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on people > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. > > sj > > > > > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > > > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently > > > you > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it > > > is > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > > > to > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She > > > should > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > > > terrorists of > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > > > meek now that > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > > > obsene.... > > > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > > > continue > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > > > millions > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > > > "expression". > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > > > > > > On > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net > >wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections > > > of the > > > media > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > > > wing hooligans > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > > > attacks and > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It > > > is not Ms. > > > Roy > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > > > her who > > > pre-arrange to > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > > > to ransack her > > > residence. > > > > > > Those interested may read the statement below > > > by Arundhati Roy in response > > > to > > > the most recent attack, > > > > > > best, > > > > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > > > > > A mob of about a hundred people > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > > > (Sunday > > > October 31st 2010.) They > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > > > They > > > shouted slogans > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > > > teach > > > me a > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > > > place > > > > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob > > consisted> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After > they > > > > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB > > > > > > vans > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > > > indication > > > that a > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > > > report in the papers > > > by > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > > > tried to stone the > > > windows of > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > > > cameramen. > > > > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > > > the media and > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > > > which positions > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > > > attacks and > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > > > criminal > > > trespass > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > > > media then become > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > > > that some TV > > > channels > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > > > inciting mob anger against > > > me. In > > > the race for sensationalism the line > > > between reporting news and > > > manufacturing > > > news is becoming blurred. So what > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > > > the > > > altar of TRP ratings? The > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend > > > to > > > go ahead with the > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > > > a > > > recent seminar > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. > > > > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > > > have been taken on by > > > right > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > > > RSS have openly announced that > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > > > at their disposal including > > > filing cases against me all over the country. > > > The whole country has seen > > > what > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to > > > which they are capable of going. > > > So, > > > while the Government is showing a > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the > > > media > > > and the infrastructure of > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe > > > in mob > > > justice? I can > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > > > distract > > > attention > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > > > been > > > named > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > > > several > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > > > mainstream > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > > > dangerous than a > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > > > ideological > > > alignment? > > > > > > > > > Arundhati Roy > > > October 31st 2010 > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Samvit > > > Rawal > > 9422037853 > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > T > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > > - Franklin P. > > > Adams > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open > > > discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in > > > the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > -- > Samvit Rawal > 9422037853 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > - Franklin P. Adams > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 13:46:33 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:46:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for an eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just reacted with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. Lets support them together." All the best Anupam On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. Strangely, > even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans doesn't > mean an attack is about to take place. > > Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' for the > world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. > > FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. Lets > support them together. > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: > > > Dear Sonia, > > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses democracy > to > > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they are > in > > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a frightened > > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He > > apologized > > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could one > > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are similar > > to > > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for > Gautam > > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After that > > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! > > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!". > > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur > > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more > > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". > > -Sam > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar wrote: > > > > > Dear Samvit, > > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free speech > > and > > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first is > > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To call > > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who > can > > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a travesty. > > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on > people > > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. > > > sj > > > > > > > > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > > > > > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How conveniently > > > > you > > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it > > > > is > > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > > > > to > > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She > > > > should > > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > > > > terrorists of > > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > > > > meek now that > > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > > > > obsene.... > > > > > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > > > > continue > > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > > > > millions > > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > > > > "expression". > > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > > > > > > > > > On > > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections > > > > of the > > > > media > > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > > > > wing hooligans > > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > > > > attacks and > > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It > > > > is not Ms. > > > > Roy > > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > > > > her who > > > > pre-arrange to > > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > > > > to ransack her > > > > residence. > > > > > > > > Those interested may read the statement below > > > > by Arundhati Roy in response > > > > to > > > > the most recent attack, > > > > > > > > best, > > > > > > > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > > > > > > > A mob of about a hundred people > > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > > > > (Sunday > > > > October 31st 2010.) They > > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > > > > They > > > > shouted slogans > > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > > > > teach > > > > me a > > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > > > > place > > > > > > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob > > > consisted> > > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After > > they > > > > > > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any > OB > > > > > > > > vans > > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > > > > indication > > > > that a > > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > > > > report in the papers > > > > by > > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > > > > tried to stone the > > > > windows of > > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > > > > cameramen. > > > > > > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > > > > the media and > > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > > > > which positions > > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > > > > attacks and > > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > > > > criminal > > > > trespass > > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > > > > media then become > > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > > > > that some TV > > > > channels > > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > > > > inciting mob anger against > > > > me. In > > > > the race for sensationalism the line > > > > between reporting news and > > > > manufacturing > > > > news is becoming blurred. So what > > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > > > > the > > > > altar of TRP ratings? The > > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend > > > > to > > > > go ahead with the > > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > > > > a > > > > recent seminar > > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. > > > > > > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > > > > have been taken on by > > > > right > > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > > > > RSS have openly announced that > > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > > > > at their disposal including > > > > filing cases against me all over the country. > > > > The whole country has seen > > > > what > > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to > > > > which they are capable of going. > > > > So, > > > > while the Government is showing a > > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the > > > > media > > > > and the infrastructure of > > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe > > > > in mob > > > > justice? I can > > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > > > > distract > > > > attention > > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > > > > been > > > > named > > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > > > > several > > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > > > > mainstream > > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > > > > dangerous than a > > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > > > > ideological > > > > alignment? > > > > > > > > > > > > Arundhati Roy > > > > October 31st 2010 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > > list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send > > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject > > > > header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Samvit > > > > Rawal > > > 9422037853 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > T > > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > > > - Franklin P. > > > > Adams > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open > > > > discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To > > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > > in > > > > the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Samvit Rawal > > 9422037853 > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > > - Franklin P. Adams > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 15:52:39 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:52:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media and mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then become accessory to the crime?" http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for an > eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just reacted > with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were > protesting. Lets support them together." > > All the best > Anupam > > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. >> Strangely, >> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans >> doesn't >> mean an attack is about to take place. >> >> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' for >> the >> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. >> >> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. Lets >> support them together. >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: >> >> > Dear Sonia, >> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses democracy >> to >> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they are >> in >> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a >> frightened >> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He >> > apologized >> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could >> one >> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are >> similar >> > to >> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for >> Gautam >> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After that >> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! >> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!". >> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur >> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more >> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". >> > -Sam >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar >> wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Samvit, >> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free speech >> > and >> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first is >> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To call >> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who >> can >> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a travesty. >> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on >> people >> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >> > > sj >> > > >> > > >> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >> > > >> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How >> conveniently >> > > > you >> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it >> > > > is >> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >> > > > to >> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She >> > > > should >> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >> > > > terrorists of >> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >> > > > meek now that >> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >> > > > obsene.... >> > > >> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >> > > > continue >> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are >> > > > millions >> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >> > > > "expression". >> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >> > > >> > > >> > > On >> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net > > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Dear all, >> > > > >> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections >> > > > of the >> > > > media >> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >> > > > wing hooligans >> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >> > > > attacks and >> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >> > > > is not Ms. >> > > > Roy >> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >> > > > her who >> > > > pre-arrange to >> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >> > > > to ransack her >> > > > residence. >> > > > >> > > > Those interested may read the statement below >> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response >> > > > to >> > > > the most recent attack, >> > > > >> > > > best, >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Shuddha >> > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >> > > > >> > > > A mob of about a hundred people >> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >> > > > (Sunday >> > > > October 31st 2010.) They >> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >> > > > They >> > > > shouted slogans >> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >> > > > teach >> > > > me a >> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in >> > > > place >> > > > >> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob >> > > consisted> >> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After >> > they >> > > > >> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any >> OB >> > > > >> > > > vans >> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >> > > > indication >> > > > that a >> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >> > > > report in the papers >> > > > by >> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >> > > > tried to stone the >> > > > windows of >> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >> > > > cameramen. >> > > > >> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >> > > > the media and >> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >> > > > which positions >> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >> > > > attacks and >> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >> > > > criminal >> > > > trespass >> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >> > > > media then become >> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >> > > > that some TV >> > > > channels >> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >> > > > inciting mob anger against >> > > > me. In >> > > > the race for sensationalism the line >> > > > between reporting news and >> > > > manufacturing >> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what >> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >> > > > the >> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The >> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend >> > > > to >> > > > go ahead with the >> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >> > > > a >> > > > recent seminar >> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. >> > > > >> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >> > > > have been taken on by >> > > > right >> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >> > > > RSS have openly announced that >> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >> > > > at their disposal including >> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. >> > > > The whole country has seen >> > > > what >> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to >> > > > which they are capable of going. >> > > > So, >> > > > while the Government is showing a >> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the >> > > > media >> > > > and the infrastructure of >> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe >> > > > in mob >> > > > justice? I can >> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >> > > > distract >> > > > attention >> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently >> > > > been >> > > > named >> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which >> > > > several >> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the >> > > > mainstream >> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >> > > > dangerous than a >> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >> > > > ideological >> > > > alignment? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Arundhati Roy >> > > > October 31st 2010 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion >> > > > list on media and the city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send >> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > > subscribe in the subject >> > > > header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Samvit >> > > > Rawal >> > > 9422037853 >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- >> > > T >> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >> > > - Franklin P. >> > > > Adams >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open >> > > > discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To >> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe >> > > in >> > > > the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Samvit Rawal >> > 9422037853 >> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >> > - Franklin P. Adams >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 16:04:56 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:04:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Samvit, I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and thank them for exercising their right of expression. Thanks and regards Rajkamal On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media and > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then > become accessory to the crime?" > > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for an >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just reacted >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were >> protesting. Lets support them together." >> >> All the best >> Anupam >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> wrote: >> >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. >>> Strangely, >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans >>> doesn't >>> mean an attack is about to take place. >>> >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' for >>> the >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. >>> >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. Lets >>> support them together. >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: >>> >>> > Dear Sonia, >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses democracy >>> to >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they >>> > are >>> in >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a >>> frightened >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He >>> > apologized >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could >>> one >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are >>> similar >>> > to >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for >>> Gautam >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After that >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga desh!!". >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". >>> > -Sam >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > > Dear Samvit, >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free >>> > > speech >>> > and >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first is >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To call >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those who >>> can >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a >>> > > travesty. >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on >>> people >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >>> > > sj >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How >>> conveniently >>> > > > you >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think it >>> > > > is >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >>> > > > to >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She >>> > > > should >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >>> > > > terrorists of >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >>> > > > meek now that >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >>> > > > obsene.... >>> > > >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >>> > > > continue >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are >>> > > > millions >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >>> > > > "expression". >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net >> > > >wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Dear all, >>> > > > >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections >>> > > > of the >>> > > > media >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >>> > > > wing hooligans >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >>> > > > attacks and >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >>> > > > is not Ms. >>> > > > Roy >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >>> > > > her who >>> > > > pre-arrange to >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >>> > > > to ransack her >>> > > > residence. >>> > > > >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response >>> > > > to >>> > > > the most recent attack, >>> > > > >>> > > > best, >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Shuddha >>> > > > >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >>> > > > >>> > > > A mob of about a hundred people >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >>> > > > (Sunday >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >>> > > > They >>> > > > shouted slogans >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >>> > > > teach >>> > > > me a >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in >>> > > > place >>> > > > >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob >>> > > consisted> >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). After >>> > they >>> > > > >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw >>> > > > any >>> OB >>> > > > >>> > > > vans >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >>> > > > indication >>> > > > that a >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >>> > > > report in the papers >>> > > > by >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >>> > > > tried to stone the >>> > > > windows of >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >>> > > > cameramen. >>> > > > >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >>> > > > the media and >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >>> > > > which positions >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >>> > > > attacks and >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >>> > > > criminal >>> > > > trespass >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >>> > > > media then become >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >>> > > > that some TV >>> > > > channels >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >>> > > > inciting mob anger against >>> > > > me. In >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line >>> > > > between reporting news and >>> > > > manufacturing >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >>> > > > the >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend >>> > > > to >>> > > > go ahead with the >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >>> > > > a >>> > > > recent seminar >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. >>> > > > >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >>> > > > have been taken on by >>> > > > right >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >>> > > > at their disposal including >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. >>> > > > The whole country has seen >>> > > > what >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to >>> > > > which they are capable of going. >>> > > > So, >>> > > > while the Government is showing a >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the >>> > > > media >>> > > > and the infrastructure of >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe >>> > > > in mob >>> > > > justice? I can >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >>> > > > distract >>> > > > attention >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently >>> > > > been >>> > > > named >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which >>> > > > several >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the >>> > > > mainstream >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >>> > > > dangerous than a >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >>> > > > ideological >>> > > > alignment? >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Arundhati Roy >>> > > > October 31st 2010 >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > _________________________________________ >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion >>> > > > list on media and the city. >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > > To subscribe: send >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > > > subscribe in the subject >>> > > > header. >>> > > > To unsubscribe: >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > > > List archive: >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -- >>> > > Samvit >>> > > > Rawal >>> > > 9422037853 >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > T >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>> > > - Franklin P. >>> > > > Adams >>> > > _________________________________________ >>> > > reader-list: an open >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > To >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe >>> > > in >>> > > > the subject header. >>> > > To unsubscribe: >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > > List archive: >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Samvit Rawal >>> > 9422037853 >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>> > - Franklin P. Adams >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajkamal From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 16:08:32 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:08:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rajkamal, I am somehow very confused about the "right to express". Does it also entail that there exists a "right to react after expression"? Anupam On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear Samvit, > > I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would > come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and > damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and > thank them for exercising their right of expression. > > Thanks and regards > Rajkamal > > On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media > and > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions > > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media > then > > become accessory to the crime?" > > > > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty > > wrote: > > > >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for an > >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just > reacted > >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who > were > >> protesting. Lets support them together." > >> > >> All the best > >> Anupam > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. > >>> Strangely, > >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans > >>> doesn't > >>> mean an attack is about to take place. > >>> > >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' for > >>> the > >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. > >>> > >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. > Lets > >>> support them together. > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: > >>> > >>> > Dear Sonia, > >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses > democracy > >>> to > >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they > >>> > are > >>> in > >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a > >>> frightened > >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He > >>> > apologized > >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could > >>> one > >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are > >>> similar > >>> > to > >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for > >>> Gautam > >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After > that > >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! > >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga > desh!!". > >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur > >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more > >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". > >>> > -Sam > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > Dear Samvit, > >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free > >>> > > speech > >>> > and > >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first > is > >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To > call > >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those > who > >>> can > >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a > >>> > > travesty. > >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on > >>> people > >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. > >>> > > sj > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How > >>> conveniently > >>> > > > you > >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think > it > >>> > > > is > >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > >>> > > > to > >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She > >>> > > > should > >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > >>> > > > terrorists of > >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > >>> > > > meek now that > >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > >>> > > > obsene.... > >>> > > > >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > >>> > > > continue > >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > >>> > > > millions > >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > >>> > > > "expression". > >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On > >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < > shuddha at sarai.net > >>> > > >wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear all, > >>> > > > > >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections > >>> > > > of the > >>> > > > media > >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > >>> > > > wing hooligans > >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > >>> > > > attacks and > >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It > >>> > > > is not Ms. > >>> > > > Roy > >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > >>> > > > her who > >>> > > > pre-arrange to > >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > >>> > > > to ransack her > >>> > > > residence. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below > >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response > >>> > > > to > >>> > > > the most recent attack, > >>> > > > > >>> > > > best, > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Shuddha > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > A mob of about a hundred people > >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > >>> > > > (Sunday > >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They > >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > >>> > > > They > >>> > > > shouted slogans > >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > >>> > > > teach > >>> > > > me a > >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already > in > >>> > > > place > >>> > > > > >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob > >>> > > consisted> > >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). > After > >>> > they > >>> > > > > >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw > >>> > > > any > >>> OB > >>> > > > > >>> > > > vans > >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > >>> > > > indication > >>> > > > that a > >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > >>> > > > report in the papers > >>> > > > by > >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > >>> > > > tried to stone the > >>> > > > windows of > >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > >>> > > > cameramen. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > >>> > > > the media and > >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > >>> > > > which positions > >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > >>> > > > attacks and > >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > >>> > > > criminal > >>> > > > trespass > >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > >>> > > > media then become > >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > >>> > > > that some TV > >>> > > > channels > >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > >>> > > > inciting mob anger against > >>> > > > me. In > >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line > >>> > > > between reporting news and > >>> > > > manufacturing > >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what > >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > >>> > > > the > >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The > >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend > >>> > > > to > >>> > > > go ahead with the > >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > >>> > > > a > >>> > > > recent seminar > >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > >>> > > > have been taken on by > >>> > > > right > >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that > >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > >>> > > > at their disposal including > >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. > >>> > > > The whole country has seen > >>> > > > what > >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to > >>> > > > which they are capable of going. > >>> > > > So, > >>> > > > while the Government is showing a > >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the > >>> > > > media > >>> > > > and the infrastructure of > >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe > >>> > > > in mob > >>> > > > justice? I can > >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > >>> > > > distract > >>> > > > attention > >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > >>> > > > been > >>> > > > named > >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in > which > >>> > > > several > >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > >>> > > > mainstream > >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > >>> > > > dangerous than a > >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > >>> > > > ideological > >>> > > > alignment? > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Arundhati Roy > >>> > > > October 31st 2010 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > _________________________________________ > >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion > >>> > > > list on media and the city. > >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > > > To subscribe: send > >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > > > subscribe in the subject > >>> > > > header. > >>> > > > To unsubscribe: > >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > > > List archive: > >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > -- > >>> > > Samvit > >>> > > > Rawal > >>> > > 9422037853 > >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > > T > >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > >>> > > - Franklin P. > >>> > > > Adams > >>> > > _________________________________________ > >>> > > reader-list: an open > >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > > To > >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > subscribe > >>> > > in > >>> > > > the subject header. > >>> > > To unsubscribe: > >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > > List archive: > >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Samvit Rawal > >>> > 9422037853 > >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > >>> > - Franklin P. Adams > >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajkamal > From samvitr at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 16:16:40 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:16:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Rajkamal, You are too late. The mobs came long ago and did that. Infant they were all people I knew, grew up with and went to school. Many of them belong to the podium that Roy shared with. I am not sure about Shuddha, though. And unlike Ms Roy they did not do with one flower pot. They looted two houses and vandalized all the property. Whatever my father and grandfather had saved was looted by Islamic fundamentalists. They were all well read. After looting the houses they burnt them to embers. So my dear Rajkamal, your curse has come in late. But unlike most people I did not indulge in hating muslims. Today most of my friends are muslims and I have great regard for the community. The issue is that Roy, Navlakha and his cronies survive only on spreading canard, hate and indulge in dividing people on all lines. Because if they don't then how will they run their shops, theirs NGOs. -SR On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear Samvit, > > I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would > come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and > damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and > thank them for exercising their right of expression. > > Thanks and regards > Rajkamal > > On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media > and > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions > > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media > then > > become accessory to the crime?" > > > > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty > > wrote: > > > >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for an > >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just > reacted > >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who > were > >> protesting. Lets support them together." > >> > >> All the best > >> Anupam > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. > >>> Strangely, > >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans > >>> doesn't > >>> mean an attack is about to take place. > >>> > >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' for > >>> the > >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. > >>> > >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. > Lets > >>> support them together. > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: > >>> > >>> > Dear Sonia, > >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses > democracy > >>> to > >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they > >>> > are > >>> in > >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a > >>> frightened > >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He > >>> > apologized > >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then could > >>> one > >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are > >>> similar > >>> > to > >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for > >>> Gautam > >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After > that > >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! > >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga > desh!!". > >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke aur > >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be more > >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". > >>> > -Sam > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > Dear Samvit, > >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free > >>> > > speech > >>> > and > >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first > is > >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To > call > >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those > who > >>> can > >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a > >>> > > travesty. > >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on > >>> people > >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. > >>> > > sj > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How > >>> conveniently > >>> > > > you > >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think > it > >>> > > > is > >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > >>> > > > to > >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. She > >>> > > > should > >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > >>> > > > terrorists of > >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > >>> > > > meek now that > >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > >>> > > > obsene.... > >>> > > > >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > >>> > > > continue > >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there are > >>> > > > millions > >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > >>> > > > "expression". > >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On > >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < > shuddha at sarai.net > >>> > > >wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear all, > >>> > > > > >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections > >>> > > > of the > >>> > > > media > >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > >>> > > > wing hooligans > >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > >>> > > > attacks and > >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It > >>> > > > is not Ms. > >>> > > > Roy > >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > >>> > > > her who > >>> > > > pre-arrange to > >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > >>> > > > to ransack her > >>> > > > residence. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below > >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response > >>> > > > to > >>> > > > the most recent attack, > >>> > > > > >>> > > > best, > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Shuddha > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > A mob of about a hundred people > >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > >>> > > > (Sunday > >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They > >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > >>> > > > They > >>> > > > shouted slogans > >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > >>> > > > teach > >>> > > > me a > >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already > in > >>> > > > place > >>> > > > > >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob > >>> > > consisted> > >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). > After > >>> > they > >>> > > > > >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw > >>> > > > any > >>> OB > >>> > > > > >>> > > > vans > >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > >>> > > > indication > >>> > > > that a > >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > >>> > > > report in the papers > >>> > > > by > >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > >>> > > > tried to stone the > >>> > > > windows of > >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > >>> > > > cameramen. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > >>> > > > the media and > >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > >>> > > > which positions > >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > >>> > > > attacks and > >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > >>> > > > criminal > >>> > > > trespass > >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > >>> > > > media then become > >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > >>> > > > that some TV > >>> > > > channels > >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > >>> > > > inciting mob anger against > >>> > > > me. In > >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line > >>> > > > between reporting news and > >>> > > > manufacturing > >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what > >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > >>> > > > the > >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The > >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend > >>> > > > to > >>> > > > go ahead with the > >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > >>> > > > a > >>> > > > recent seminar > >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > >>> > > > have been taken on by > >>> > > > right > >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that > >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > >>> > > > at their disposal including > >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. > >>> > > > The whole country has seen > >>> > > > what > >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to > >>> > > > which they are capable of going. > >>> > > > So, > >>> > > > while the Government is showing a > >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the > >>> > > > media > >>> > > > and the infrastructure of > >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe > >>> > > > in mob > >>> > > > justice? I can > >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > >>> > > > distract > >>> > > > attention > >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > >>> > > > been > >>> > > > named > >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in > which > >>> > > > several > >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > >>> > > > mainstream > >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > >>> > > > dangerous than a > >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > >>> > > > ideological > >>> > > > alignment? > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Arundhati Roy > >>> > > > October 31st 2010 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > _________________________________________ > >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion > >>> > > > list on media and the city. > >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > > > To subscribe: send > >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > > > subscribe in the subject > >>> > > > header. > >>> > > > To unsubscribe: > >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > > > List archive: > >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > -- > >>> > > Samvit > >>> > > > Rawal > >>> > > 9422037853 > >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > > T > >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > >>> > > - Franklin P. > >>> > > > Adams > >>> > > _________________________________________ > >>> > > reader-list: an open > >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > > To > >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > subscribe > >>> > > in > >>> > > > the subject header. > >>> > > To unsubscribe: > >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > > List archive: > >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Samvit Rawal > >>> > 9422037853 > >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > >>> > - Franklin P. Adams > >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajkamal > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 16:33:03 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:33:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anupam I myself found the line of discussion that entailed in this list following the attack very confusing. In the last mail I just replied in a very naive manner to Mr. Samvit's naive argument. But nevertheless, I think the question that you have raised is perhaps the most important one. In similar vein, one could raise the question of legitimacy of violent reaction in our society. I think we have the power to decide and debate that. If you ask for my view, then I would say that I do not and would not allow any form of violence in the realms that I can control, including the real world and the world of thoughts and ideas. Violent protest to a non-violent expression is unacceptable. And also violent protest that encroach the privacy of me and my family and friends also is unacceptable. There are forums where one can lodge protest and carry our demonstration. One of the persons in this forum has argued that situation in Kashmir is such that people are even scared to raise a voice against the popular sentiment/idea. My question is that would you like to imbibe and imbue such an atmosphere around you? If we decide that we allow the right to violent reaction to an expression of idea/thought than we are also legitimizing the idea of banning Mistry's book in Maharashtra and Brown's book in many christian dominated states, violence in cinema halls over issues like calling a place Bombay instead of Mumbai and so on and so forth. My question is do we want to build such a society where the power will lie with the protesters to decide what is acceptable and what is not? Thanks Rajkamal On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Rajkamal, > > I am somehow very confused about the "right to express". Does it also entail > that there exists a "right to react after expression"? > > Anupam > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami > wrote: > >> Dear Samvit, >> >> I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would >> come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and >> damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and >> thank them for exercising their right of expression. >> >> Thanks and regards >> Rajkamal >> >> On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media >> and >> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which >> > positions >> > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and >> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal >> > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media >> then >> > become accessory to the crime?" >> > >> > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty >> > wrote: >> > >> >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for >> >> an >> >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just >> reacted >> >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who >> were >> >> protesting. Lets support them together." >> >> >> >> All the best >> >> Anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. >> >>> Strangely, >> >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans >> >>> doesn't >> >>> mean an attack is about to take place. >> >>> >> >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' >> >>> for >> >>> the >> >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. >> >>> >> >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. >> Lets >> >>> support them together. >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > Dear Sonia, >> >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses >> democracy >> >>> to >> >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they >> >>> > are >> >>> in >> >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a >> >>> frightened >> >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He >> >>> > apologized >> >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then >> >>> > could >> >>> one >> >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are >> >>> similar >> >>> > to >> >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for >> >>> Gautam >> >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After >> that >> >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! >> >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga >> desh!!". >> >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke >> >>> > aur >> >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be >> >>> > more >> >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". >> >>> > -Sam >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > > Dear Samvit, >> >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free >> >>> > > speech >> >>> > and >> >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first >> is >> >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To >> call >> >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those >> who >> >>> can >> >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a >> >>> > > travesty. >> >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on >> >>> people >> >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >> >>> > > sj >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How >> >>> conveniently >> >>> > > > you >> >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think >> it >> >>> > > > is >> >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >> >>> > > > to >> >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. >> >>> > > She >> >>> > > > should >> >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >> >>> > > > terrorists of >> >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >> >>> > > > meek now that >> >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >> >>> > > > obsene.... >> >>> > > >> >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >> >>> > > > continue >> >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there >> >>> > > are >> >>> > > > millions >> >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >> >>> > > > "expression". >> >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On >> >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < >> shuddha at sarai.net >> >>> > > >wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Dear all, >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections >> >>> > > > of the >> >>> > > > media >> >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >> >>> > > > wing hooligans >> >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >> >>> > > > attacks and >> >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >> >>> > > > is not Ms. >> >>> > > > Roy >> >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >> >>> > > > her who >> >>> > > > pre-arrange to >> >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >> >>> > > > to ransack her >> >>> > > > residence. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below >> >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response >> >>> > > > to >> >>> > > > the most recent attack, >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > best, >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Shuddha >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > A mob of about a hundred people >> >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >> >>> > > > (Sunday >> >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They >> >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >> >>> > > > They >> >>> > > > shouted slogans >> >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >> >>> > > > teach >> >>> > > > me a >> >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already >> in >> >>> > > > place >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob >> >>> > > consisted> >> >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). >> After >> >>> > they >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw >> >>> > > > any >> >>> OB >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > vans >> >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >> >>> > > > indication >> >>> > > > that a >> >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >> >>> > > > report in the papers >> >>> > > > by >> >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >> >>> > > > tried to stone the >> >>> > > > windows of >> >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >> >>> > > > cameramen. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >> >>> > > > the media and >> >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >> >>> > > > which positions >> >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >> >>> > > > attacks and >> >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >> >>> > > > criminal >> >>> > > > trespass >> >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >> >>> > > > media then become >> >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >> >>> > > > that some TV >> >>> > > > channels >> >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >> >>> > > > inciting mob anger against >> >>> > > > me. In >> >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line >> >>> > > > between reporting news and >> >>> > > > manufacturing >> >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what >> >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >> >>> > > > the >> >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The >> >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend >> >>> > > > to >> >>> > > > go ahead with the >> >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >> >>> > > > a >> >>> > > > recent seminar >> >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >> >>> > > > have been taken on by >> >>> > > > right >> >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >> >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that >> >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >> >>> > > > at their disposal including >> >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. >> >>> > > > The whole country has seen >> >>> > > > what >> >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to >> >>> > > > which they are capable of going. >> >>> > > > So, >> >>> > > > while the Government is showing a >> >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the >> >>> > > > media >> >>> > > > and the infrastructure of >> >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe >> >>> > > > in mob >> >>> > > > justice? I can >> >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >> >>> > > > distract >> >>> > > > attention >> >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently >> >>> > > > been >> >>> > > > named >> >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in >> which >> >>> > > > several >> >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the >> >>> > > > mainstream >> >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >> >>> > > > dangerous than a >> >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >> >>> > > > ideological >> >>> > > > alignment? >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Arundhati Roy >> >>> > > > October 31st 2010 >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > _________________________________________ >> >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion >> >>> > > > list on media and the city. >> >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > > > To subscribe: send >> >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > > > subscribe in the subject >> >>> > > > header. >> >>> > > > To unsubscribe: >> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > > > List archive: >> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > -- >> >>> > > Samvit >> >>> > > > Rawal >> >>> > > 9422037853 >> >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > > T >> >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >> >>> > > - Franklin P. >> >>> > > > Adams >> >>> > > _________________________________________ >> >>> > > reader-list: an open >> >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > > To >> >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > subscribe >> >>> > > in >> >>> > > > the subject header. >> >>> > > To unsubscribe: >> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > > List archive: >> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > Samvit Rawal >> >>> > 9422037853 >> >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >> >>> > - Franklin P. Adams >> >>> > _________________________________________ >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> Rajkamal >> > -- Rajkamal From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 16:37:00 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:37:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: Thanks to Arundhati Roy Message-ID: Hi Having seen the increasing no. of discussions on what is right and wrong and nationalistic and not nationalistic and all that, I profusely thank Arundhati Roy for at least getting so many people into debating on Sarai. For that itself, she deserves plaudits, if nothing else. Rakesh From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 16:44:26 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:44:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Samvit, I seriously didn't mean it as a curse. I really apologize if I conveyed that idea. And also I am sorry to know all that yo and your family went through. What I really wished to say is that if We, as a society, allow such things to perpetuate, it won't be long before we too start facing the music. For eg: I am working on my PhD now which deals with the issue of hunting of primates. If tomorrow I say that primate meat forms an important diet of many people of India, does it legitimize any violent protest by Hindu fundamentalist citing that Hindus worship monkey? Should I or you allow people to get away with such acts? Tomorrow, some mobs might attack me or Sonia or Anupam over some idea that we discussed on this forum. Once it happens, there won't be an end to it. Who else, better than you, who has suffered first hand can understand the pain and humiliation that comes along with it. Me and my family (in Assam) too have faced similar humiliation from armed forces during the peak emergency in Assam. And that is the very reason why I condemn any such acts which tatters the dignity of an individual. Once again sorry for hurting you (unknowingly) through my mail. Regards Rajkamal On 11/1/10, Samvit wrote: > Dear Rajkamal, > You are too late. The mobs came long ago and did that. Infant they were all > people I knew, grew up with and went to school. Many of them belong to the > podium that Roy shared with. I am not sure about Shuddha, though. > > And unlike Ms Roy they did not do with one flower pot. They looted two > houses and vandalized all the property. Whatever my father and grandfather > had saved was looted by Islamic fundamentalists. They were all well read. > After looting the houses they burnt them to embers. > So my dear Rajkamal, your curse has come in late. But unlike most people I > did not indulge in hating muslims. Today most of my friends are muslims and > I have great regard for the community. > The issue is that Roy, Navlakha and his cronies survive only on spreading > canard, hate and indulge in dividing people on all lines. Because if they > don't then how will they run their shops, theirs NGOs. > -SR > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami > wrote: > >> Dear Samvit, >> >> I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would >> come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and >> damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and >> thank them for exercising their right of expression. >> >> Thanks and regards >> Rajkamal >> >> On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media >> and >> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which >> > positions >> > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and >> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal >> > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media >> then >> > become accessory to the crime?" >> > >> > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty >> > wrote: >> > >> >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for >> >> an >> >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just >> reacted >> >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who >> were >> >> protesting. Lets support them together." >> >> >> >> All the best >> >> Anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. >> >>> Strangely, >> >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans >> >>> doesn't >> >>> mean an attack is about to take place. >> >>> >> >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' >> >>> for >> >>> the >> >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. >> >>> >> >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. >> Lets >> >>> support them together. >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > Dear Sonia, >> >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses >> democracy >> >>> to >> >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they >> >>> > are >> >>> in >> >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a >> >>> frightened >> >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He >> >>> > apologized >> >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then >> >>> > could >> >>> one >> >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are >> >>> similar >> >>> > to >> >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for >> >>> Gautam >> >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After >> that >> >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! >> >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga >> desh!!". >> >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke >> >>> > aur >> >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be >> >>> > more >> >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". >> >>> > -Sam >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > > Dear Samvit, >> >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free >> >>> > > speech >> >>> > and >> >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first >> is >> >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To >> call >> >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those >> who >> >>> can >> >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a >> >>> > > travesty. >> >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on >> >>> people >> >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >> >>> > > sj >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How >> >>> conveniently >> >>> > > > you >> >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think >> it >> >>> > > > is >> >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >> >>> > > > to >> >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. >> >>> > > She >> >>> > > > should >> >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >> >>> > > > terrorists of >> >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >> >>> > > > meek now that >> >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >> >>> > > > obsene.... >> >>> > > >> >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >> >>> > > > continue >> >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there >> >>> > > are >> >>> > > > millions >> >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >> >>> > > > "expression". >> >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On >> >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < >> shuddha at sarai.net >> >>> > > >wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Dear all, >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections >> >>> > > > of the >> >>> > > > media >> >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >> >>> > > > wing hooligans >> >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >> >>> > > > attacks and >> >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >> >>> > > > is not Ms. >> >>> > > > Roy >> >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >> >>> > > > her who >> >>> > > > pre-arrange to >> >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >> >>> > > > to ransack her >> >>> > > > residence. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below >> >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response >> >>> > > > to >> >>> > > > the most recent attack, >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > best, >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Shuddha >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > A mob of about a hundred people >> >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >> >>> > > > (Sunday >> >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They >> >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >> >>> > > > They >> >>> > > > shouted slogans >> >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >> >>> > > > teach >> >>> > > > me a >> >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already >> in >> >>> > > > place >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob >> >>> > > consisted> >> >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). >> After >> >>> > they >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw >> >>> > > > any >> >>> OB >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > vans >> >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >> >>> > > > indication >> >>> > > > that a >> >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >> >>> > > > report in the papers >> >>> > > > by >> >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >> >>> > > > tried to stone the >> >>> > > > windows of >> >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >> >>> > > > cameramen. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >> >>> > > > the media and >> >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >> >>> > > > which positions >> >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >> >>> > > > attacks and >> >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >> >>> > > > criminal >> >>> > > > trespass >> >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >> >>> > > > media then become >> >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >> >>> > > > that some TV >> >>> > > > channels >> >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >> >>> > > > inciting mob anger against >> >>> > > > me. In >> >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line >> >>> > > > between reporting news and >> >>> > > > manufacturing >> >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what >> >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >> >>> > > > the >> >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The >> >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend >> >>> > > > to >> >>> > > > go ahead with the >> >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >> >>> > > > a >> >>> > > > recent seminar >> >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >> >>> > > > have been taken on by >> >>> > > > right >> >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >> >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that >> >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >> >>> > > > at their disposal including >> >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. >> >>> > > > The whole country has seen >> >>> > > > what >> >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to >> >>> > > > which they are capable of going. >> >>> > > > So, >> >>> > > > while the Government is showing a >> >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the >> >>> > > > media >> >>> > > > and the infrastructure of >> >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe >> >>> > > > in mob >> >>> > > > justice? I can >> >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >> >>> > > > distract >> >>> > > > attention >> >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently >> >>> > > > been >> >>> > > > named >> >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in >> which >> >>> > > > several >> >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the >> >>> > > > mainstream >> >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >> >>> > > > dangerous than a >> >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >> >>> > > > ideological >> >>> > > > alignment? >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Arundhati Roy >> >>> > > > October 31st 2010 >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > _________________________________________ >> >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion >> >>> > > > list on media and the city. >> >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > > > To subscribe: send >> >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > > > subscribe in the subject >> >>> > > > header. >> >>> > > > To unsubscribe: >> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > > > List archive: >> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > -- >> >>> > > Samvit >> >>> > > > Rawal >> >>> > > 9422037853 >> >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > > T >> >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >> >>> > > - Franklin P. >> >>> > > > Adams >> >>> > > _________________________________________ >> >>> > > reader-list: an open >> >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > > To >> >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > subscribe >> >>> > > in >> >>> > > > the subject header. >> >>> > > To unsubscribe: >> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > > List archive: >> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > Samvit Rawal >> >>> > 9422037853 >> >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >> >>> > - Franklin P. Adams >> >>> > _________________________________________ >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> Rajkamal >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > -- Rajkamal From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Nov 1 17:01:36 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (nmf2010) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 12:31:36 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_45__on_NewMediaFest?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=272010?= Message-ID: <20101101123136.53E64D71.5EFE4B3A@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest'2010 -------------------------------- Program - week 45 ---> 1-6 November 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1118 -------------------------------- 1. -------------------------------- Feature of the week 45 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1123 JavaMuseum is featuring on "Celebrate!" - this week six new exciting Internet based works --> The Qi Project by Nanette Wylde (USA) --> Sufferrosa by Dawid Marcinkowski (Poland) --> FACADE by Greg Giannis (Australia) --> Blank is the Blank by Mike Ruiz (Germany /USA) --> He Chose It by Constant Dullaart (NL) --> Videored by Videored Collective (Colombia) -------------------------------- 2 -------------------------------- VideoChannel Cologne proudly presents Feature of the Month October 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1084 proudly present Videoart from Croatia curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne (artvideoKOELN) featuring videos by 15 Croatian video artists --> Dario Bardic, Ana Bilankov, Adam Dragojevic' Silvana Dunat, Darko Fritz, Zeljka Fuderer Levak Miranda Herceg, Toni Mestrovic, Ana Opalic Filip Peruzovic, Davor Sanvincenti, Martina Skender Bruna Tomsic', Sonja VUK, Andrea Zrno -------------------------------- -------------------------------- NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org --------------------------------------- From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 17:02:47 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:02:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Samit and you like on the list please hide ur heads in shame. and imagine if your sister was attacked by goons like that and it is too disgusting to demand evidence from the person who is too shaken. we have Media who know how to isolate an individual and push their viewership round the clock. They are running out of subjects. For them there should a be case of canibalism and rape every hour, and if not they may actually produce such acts, like Army did once in Sicachen. Shame. I wonder if these goons dare to throw a stone at tainted CM of Maharashtra, because our dear respected Generals are thickly involved. OUr Media has done it to Hussain who is living in exile, that too when Courts exonerated him for any obscenity charge . That is why Ashis Nandy said " censorship has a great future in India" And those who support it now, dont ralize that when and how and whom this monster devours without remorse let us wake up love is SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT A mob of about a hundred people arrived at my house at 11 this morning (Sunday October 31st 2010.) They broke through the gate and vandalized property. They shouted slogans against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to teach me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in place ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted largely of members of the BJP’s Mahila Morcha (Women’s wing). After they left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB vans hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an indication that a mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false report in the papers by Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles tried to stone the windows of my home. They too were accompanied by TV cameramen. What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media and mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then become accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that some TV channels and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob anger against me. In the race for sensationalism the line between reporting news and manufacturing news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have to be sacrificed at the altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated that it does not intend to go ahead with the charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at a recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. So the task of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by right wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced that they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal including filing cases against me all over the country. The whole country has seen what they are capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. So, while the Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the media and the infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe in mob justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to distract attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently been named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of ideological alignment? Arundhati Roy October 31st 2010 On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear Samvit, > > I seriously didn't mean it as a curse. I really apologize if I > conveyed that idea. And also I am sorry to know all that yo and your > family went through. What I really wished to say is that if We, as a > society, allow such things to perpetuate, it won't be long before we > too start facing the music. For eg: I am working on my PhD now which > deals with the issue of hunting of primates. If tomorrow I say that > primate meat forms an important diet of many people of India, does it > legitimize any violent protest by Hindu fundamentalist citing that > Hindus worship monkey? Should I or you allow people to get away with > such acts? Tomorrow, some mobs might attack me or Sonia or Anupam over > some idea that we discussed on this forum. Once it happens, there > won't be an end to it. Who else, better than you, who has suffered > first hand can understand the pain and humiliation that comes along > with it. > > Me and my family (in Assam) too have faced similar humiliation from > armed forces during the peak emergency in Assam. And that is the very > reason why I condemn any such acts which tatters the dignity of an > individual. > > Once again sorry for hurting you (unknowingly) through my mail. > > Regards > Rajkamal > > > > > On 11/1/10, Samvit wrote: >> Dear Rajkamal, >> You are too late. The mobs came long ago and did that. Infant they were all >> people I knew, grew up with and went to school. Many of them belong to the >> podium that Roy shared with. I am not sure about Shuddha, though. >> >> And unlike Ms Roy they did not do with one flower pot. They looted two >> houses and vandalized all the property. Whatever my father and grandfather >> had saved was looted by Islamic fundamentalists. They were all well read. >> After looting the houses they burnt them to embers. >> So my dear Rajkamal, your curse has come in late. But unlike most people I >> did not indulge in hating muslims. Today most of my friends are muslims and >> I have great regard for the community. >> The issue is that Roy, Navlakha and his cronies survive only on spreading >> canard, hate and indulge in dividing people on all lines. Because if they >> don't then how will they run their shops, theirs NGOs. >> -SR >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Samvit, >>> >>> I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would >>> come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and >>> damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and >>> thank them for exercising their right of expression. >>> >>> Thanks and regards >>> Rajkamal >>> >>> On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >>> > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media >>> and >>> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which >>> > positions >>> > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and >>> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal >>> > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media >>> then >>> > become accessory to the crime?" >>> > >>> > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 >>> > >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for >>> >> an >>> >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just >>> reacted >>> >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who >>> were >>> >> protesting. Lets support them together." >>> >> >>> >> All the best >>> >> Anupam >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. >>> >>> Strangely, >>> >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans >>> >>> doesn't >>> >>> mean an attack is about to take place. >>> >>> >>> >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' >>> >>> for >>> >>> the >>> >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. >>> >>> >>> >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. >>> Lets >>> >>> support them together. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> > Dear Sonia, >>> >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses >>> democracy >>> >>> to >>> >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they >>> >>> > are >>> >>> in >>> >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a >>> >>> frightened >>> >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He >>> >>> > apologized >>> >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then >>> >>> > could >>> >>> one >>> >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are >>> >>> similar >>> >>> > to >>> >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for >>> >>> Gautam >>> >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After >>> that >>> >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! >>> >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga >>> desh!!". >>> >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke >>> >>> > aur >>> >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be >>> >>> > more >>> >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". >>> >>> > -Sam >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> > > Dear Samvit, >>> >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free >>> >>> > > speech >>> >>> > and >>> >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence.  The first >>> is >>> >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law.  To >>> call >>> >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those >>> who >>> >>> can >>> >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a >>> >>> > > travesty. >>> >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on >>> >>> people >>> >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >>> >>> > > sj >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How >>> >>> conveniently >>> >>> > > > you >>> >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think >>> it >>> >>> > > > is >>> >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >>> >>> > > > to >>> >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. >>> >>> > > She >>> >>> > > > should >>> >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >>> >>> > > > terrorists of >>> >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >>> >>> > > > meek now that >>> >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >>> >>> > > > obsene.... >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >>> >>> > > > continue >>> >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there >>> >>> > > are >>> >>> > > > millions >>> >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >>> >>> > > > "expression". >>> >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > On >>> >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < >>> shuddha at sarai.net >>> >>> > > >wrote: >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Dear all, >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections >>> >>> > > > of the >>> >>> > > > media >>> >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >>> >>> > > > wing hooligans >>> >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >>> >>> > > > attacks and >>> >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >>> >>> > > > is not Ms. >>> >>> > > > Roy >>> >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >>> >>> > > > her who >>> >>> > > > pre-arrange to >>> >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >>> >>> > > > to ransack her >>> >>> > > > residence. >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below >>> >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response >>> >>> > > > to >>> >>> > > > the most recent attack, >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > best, >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Shuddha >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > >  A mob of about a hundred people >>> >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >>> >>> > > > (Sunday >>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They >>> >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >>> >>> > > > They >>> >>> > > > shouted slogans >>> >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >>> >>> > > > teach >>> >>> > > > me a >>> >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already >>> in >>> >>> > > > place >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob >>> >>> > > consisted> >>> >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). >>> After >>> >>> > they >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw >>> >>> > > > any >>> >>> OB >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > vans >>> >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >>> >>> > > > indication >>> >>> > > > that a >>> >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >>> >>> > > > report in the papers >>> >>> > > > by >>> >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >>> >>> > > > tried to stone the >>> >>> > > > windows of >>> >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >>> >>> > > > cameramen. >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >>> >>> > > > the media and >>> >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >>> >>> > > > which positions >>> >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >>> >>> > > > attacks and >>> >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >>> >>> > > > criminal >>> >>> > > > trespass >>> >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >>> >>> > > > media then become >>> >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >>> >>> > > > that some TV >>> >>> > > > channels >>> >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >>> >>> > > > inciting mob anger against >>> >>> > > > me. In >>> >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line >>> >>> > > > between reporting news and >>> >>> > > > manufacturing >>> >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what >>> >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >>> >>> > > > the >>> >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The >>> >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend >>> >>> > > > to >>> >>> > > > go ahead with the >>> >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >>> >>> > > > a >>> >>> > > > recent seminar >>> >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >>> >>> > > > have been taken on by >>> >>> > > > right >>> >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >>> >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that >>> >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >>> >>> > > > at their disposal including >>> >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. >>> >>> > > > The whole country has seen >>> >>> > > > what >>> >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to >>> >>> > > > which they are capable of going. >>> >>> > > > So, >>> >>> > > > while the Government is showing a >>> >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the >>> >>> > > > media >>> >>> > > > and the infrastructure of >>> >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe >>> >>> > > > in mob >>> >>> > > > justice? I can >>> >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >>> >>> > > > distract >>> >>> > > > attention >>> >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently >>> >>> > > > been >>> >>> > > > named >>> >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in >>> which >>> >>> > > > several >>> >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the >>> >>> > > > mainstream >>> >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >>> >>> > > > dangerous than a >>> >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >>> >>> > > > ideological >>> >>> > > > alignment? >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Arundhati Roy >>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010 >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > _________________________________________ >>> >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion >>> >>> > > > list on media and the city. >>> >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> > > > To subscribe: send >>> >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> > > > subscribe in the subject >>> >>> > > > header. >>> >>> > > > To unsubscribe: >>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > > > List archive: >>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > -- >>> >>> > > Samvit >>> >>> > > > Rawal >>> >>> > > 9422037853 >>> >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > > T >>> >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>> >>> > >  - Franklin P. >>> >>> > > > Adams >>> >>> > > _________________________________________ >>> >>> > > reader-list: an open >>> >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> > > To >>> >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> > subscribe >>> >>> > > in >>> >>> > > > the subject header. >>> >>> > > To unsubscribe: >>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > > List archive: >>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > -- >>> >>> > Samvit Rawal >>> >>> > 9422037853 >>> >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>> >>> >   - Franklin P. Adams >>> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> > >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> > in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rajkamal >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> > > > -- > Rajkamal > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 17:25:42 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:25:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Inder, Please refrain. regards Rajkamal On 11/1/10, Inder Salim wrote: > Dear Samit and you like on the list > > please hide ur heads in shame. > and imagine if your sister was attacked by goons like that > > and it is too disgusting to demand evidence from the person who is too > shaken. > > we have Media who know how to isolate an individual and push their > viewership round the clock. They are running out of subjects. For them > there should a be case of canibalism and rape every hour, and if not > they may actually produce such acts, like Army did once in Sicachen. > Shame. > > I wonder if these goons dare to throw a stone at tainted CM of > Maharashtra, because our dear respected Generals are thickly > involved. > > OUr Media has done it to Hussain who is living in exile, that too when > Courts exonerated him for any obscenity charge . That is why Ashis > Nandy said " censorship has a great future in India" > > And those who support it now, dont ralize that when and how and whom > this monster devours without remorse > > let us wake up > > love > is > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > A mob of about a hundred people arrived at my house at 11 this morning > (Sunday > October 31st 2010.) They broke through the gate and vandalized property. > They > shouted slogans against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > teach > me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > place > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted > largely of members of the BJP’s Mahila Morcha (Women’s wing). After they > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB vans > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an indication > that a > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false report in the papers by > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles tried to stone the windows > of > my home. They too were accompanied by TV cameramen. > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media and > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > trespass > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then become > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that some TV > channels > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob anger against me. > In > the race for sensationalism the line between reporting news and > manufacturing > news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have to be sacrificed at > the > altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated that it does not intend > to > go ahead with the charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at a > recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by > right > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced that > they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal including > filing cases against me all over the country. The whole country has seen > what > they are capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. > So, > while the Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the > media > and the infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe in > mob > justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > distract > attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > been > named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of ideological > alignment? > > Arundhati Roy > October 31st 2010 > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Rajkamal Goswami > wrote: >> Dear Samvit, >> >> I seriously didn't mean it as a curse. I really apologize if I >> conveyed that idea. And also I am sorry to know all that yo and your >> family went through. What I really wished to say is that if We, as a >> society, allow such things to perpetuate, it won't be long before we >> too start facing the music. For eg: I am working on my PhD now which >> deals with the issue of hunting of primates. If tomorrow I say that >> primate meat forms an important diet of many people of India, does it >> legitimize any violent protest by Hindu fundamentalist citing that >> Hindus worship monkey? Should I or you allow people to get away with >> such acts? Tomorrow, some mobs might attack me or Sonia or Anupam over >> some idea that we discussed on this forum. Once it happens, there >> won't be an end to it. Who else, better than you, who has suffered >> first hand can understand the pain and humiliation that comes along >> with it. >> >> Me and my family (in Assam) too have faced similar humiliation from >> armed forces during the peak emergency in Assam. And that is the very >> reason why I condemn any such acts which tatters the dignity of an >> individual. >> >> Once again sorry for hurting you (unknowingly) through my mail. >> >> Regards >> Rajkamal >> >> >> >> >> On 11/1/10, Samvit wrote: >>> Dear Rajkamal, >>> You are too late. The mobs came long ago and did that. Infant they were >>> all >>> people I knew, grew up with and went to school. Many of them belong to >>> the >>> podium that Roy shared with. I am not sure about Shuddha, though. >>> >>> And unlike Ms Roy they did not do with one flower pot. They looted two >>> houses and vandalized all the property. Whatever my father and >>> grandfather >>> had saved was looted by Islamic fundamentalists. They were all well read. >>> After looting the houses they burnt them to embers. >>> So my dear Rajkamal, your curse has come in late. But unlike most people >>> I >>> did not indulge in hating muslims. Today most of my friends are muslims >>> and >>> I have great regard for the community. >>> The issue is that Roy, Navlakha and his cronies survive only on spreading >>> canard, hate and indulge in dividing people on all lines. Because if they >>> don't then how will they run their shops, theirs NGOs. >>> -SR >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Samvit, >>>> >>>> I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would >>>> come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and >>>> damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and >>>> thank them for exercising their right of expression. >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards >>>> Rajkamal >>>> >>>> On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >>>> > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the >>>> > media >>>> and >>>> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which >>>> > positions >>>> > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and >>>> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal >>>> > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media >>>> then >>>> > become accessory to the crime?" >>>> > >>>> > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for >>>> >> an >>>> >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just >>>> reacted >>>> >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who >>>> were >>>> >> protesting. Lets support them together." >>>> >> >>>> >> All the best >>>> >> Anupam >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. >>>> >>> Strangely, >>>> >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans >>>> >>> doesn't >>>> >>> mean an attack is about to take place. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> the >>>> >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. >>>> Lets >>>> >>> support them together. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> > Dear Sonia, >>>> >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses >>>> democracy >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when >>>> >>> > they >>>> >>> > are >>>> >>> in >>>> >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a >>>> >>> frightened >>>> >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He >>>> >>> > apologized >>>> >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then >>>> >>> > could >>>> >>> one >>>> >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are >>>> >>> similar >>>> >>> > to >>>> >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible >>>> >>> > for >>>> >>> Gautam >>>> >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After >>>> that >>>> >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! >>>> >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga >>>> desh!!". >>>> >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke >>>> >>> > aur >>>> >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be >>>> >>> > more >>>> >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". >>>> >>> > -Sam >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > > Dear Samvit, >>>> >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free >>>> >>> > > speech >>>> >>> > and >>>> >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence.  The >>>> >>> > > first >>>> is >>>> >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law.  To >>>> call >>>> >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with >>>> >>> > > those >>>> who >>>> >>> can >>>> >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a >>>> >>> > > travesty. >>>> >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering >>>> >>> > > on >>>> >>> people >>>> >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >>>> >>> > > sj >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How >>>> >>> conveniently >>>> >>> > > > you >>>> >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I >>>> >>> > > think >>>> it >>>> >>> > > > is >>>> >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >>>> >>> > > > to >>>> >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. >>>> >>> > > She >>>> >>> > > > should >>>> >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >>>> >>> > > > terrorists of >>>> >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >>>> >>> > > > meek now that >>>> >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >>>> >>> > > > obsene.... >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >>>> >>> > > > continue >>>> >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there >>>> >>> > > are >>>> >>> > > > millions >>>> >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >>>> >>> > > > "expression". >>>> >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > On >>>> >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < >>>> shuddha at sarai.net >>>> >>> > > >wrote: >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > Dear all, >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in >>>> >>> > > > sections >>>> >>> > > > of the >>>> >>> > > > media >>>> >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >>>> >>> > > > wing hooligans >>>> >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >>>> >>> > > > attacks and >>>> >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >>>> >>> > > > is not Ms. >>>> >>> > > > Roy >>>> >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >>>> >>> > > > her who >>>> >>> > > > pre-arrange to >>>> >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >>>> >>> > > > to ransack her >>>> >>> > > > residence. >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below >>>> >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response >>>> >>> > > > to >>>> >>> > > > the most recent attack, >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > best, >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > Shuddha >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > >  A mob of about a hundred people >>>> >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >>>> >>> > > > (Sunday >>>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They >>>> >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >>>> >>> > > > They >>>> >>> > > > shouted slogans >>>> >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >>>> >>> > > > teach >>>> >>> > > > me a >>>> >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were >>>> >>> > > > already >>>> in >>>> >>> > > > place >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the >>>> >>> > > > mob >>>> >>> > > consisted> >>>> >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). >>>> After >>>> >>> > they >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we >>>> >>> > > > saw >>>> >>> > > > any >>>> >>> OB >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > vans >>>> >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >>>> >>> > > > indication >>>> >>> > > > that a >>>> >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >>>> >>> > > > report in the papers >>>> >>> > > > by >>>> >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >>>> >>> > > > tried to stone the >>>> >>> > > > windows of >>>> >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >>>> >>> > > > cameramen. >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >>>> >>> > > > the media and >>>> >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >>>> >>> > > > which positions >>>> >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >>>> >>> > > > attacks and >>>> >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >>>> >>> > > > criminal >>>> >>> > > > trespass >>>> >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >>>> >>> > > > media then become >>>> >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >>>> >>> > > > that some TV >>>> >>> > > > channels >>>> >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >>>> >>> > > > inciting mob anger against >>>> >>> > > > me. In >>>> >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line >>>> >>> > > > between reporting news and >>>> >>> > > > manufacturing >>>> >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what >>>> >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >>>> >>> > > > the >>>> >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The >>>> >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend >>>> >>> > > > to >>>> >>> > > > go ahead with the >>>> >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >>>> >>> > > > a >>>> >>> > > > recent seminar >>>> >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >>>> >>> > > > have been taken on by >>>> >>> > > > right >>>> >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >>>> >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that >>>> >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >>>> >>> > > > at their disposal including >>>> >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. >>>> >>> > > > The whole country has seen >>>> >>> > > > what >>>> >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to >>>> >>> > > > which they are capable of going. >>>> >>> > > > So, >>>> >>> > > > while the Government is showing a >>>> >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the >>>> >>> > > > media >>>> >>> > > > and the infrastructure of >>>> >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe >>>> >>> > > > in mob >>>> >>> > > > justice? I can >>>> >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >>>> >>> > > > distract >>>> >>> > > > attention >>>> >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has >>>> >>> > > > recently >>>> >>> > > > been >>>> >>> > > > named >>>> >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in >>>> which >>>> >>> > > > several >>>> >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of >>>> >>> > > > the >>>> >>> > > > mainstream >>>> >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >>>> >>> > > > dangerous than a >>>> >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >>>> >>> > > > ideological >>>> >>> > > > alignment? >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > Arundhati Roy >>>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010 >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > _________________________________________ >>>> >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion >>>> >>> > > > list on media and the city. >>>> >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >>> > > > To subscribe: send >>>> >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >>> > > > subscribe in the subject >>>> >>> > > > header. >>>> >>> > > > To unsubscribe: >>>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >>> > > > List archive: >>>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > -- >>>> >>> > > Samvit >>>> >>> > > > Rawal >>>> >>> > > 9422037853 >>>> >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>> > > T >>>> >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>>> >>> > >  - Franklin P. >>>> >>> > > > Adams >>>> >>> > > _________________________________________ >>>> >>> > > reader-list: an open >>>> >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. >>>> >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >>> > > To >>>> >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >>> > subscribe >>>> >>> > > in >>>> >>> > > > the subject header. >>>> >>> > > To unsubscribe: >>>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >>> > > List archive: >>>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > -- >>>> >>> > Samvit Rawal >>>> >>> > 9422037853 >>>> >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>>> >>> >   - Franklin P. Adams >>>> >>> > _________________________________________ >>>> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>>> >>> > To unsubscribe: >>>> >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> _________________________________________ >>>> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > _________________________________________ >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe >>>> > in the subject header. >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Rajkamal >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rajkamal >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajkamal From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 18:03:06 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:03:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] on Kashmir : Between the mountains in The New Yorker Times Message-ID: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2002/03/11/020311fa_FACT1 -- From veeruz at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 18:17:15 2010 From: veeruz at gmail.com (Khaqsar Wangoo) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:17:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Homeward Extrabound : Plain English Message-ID: http://koshur.blogspot.com/2010/06/homeward-extrabound-plain-english.html When longing in desert becomes too long, one does see mirages and what appears as an Oasis is actually a phenomenon of total internal refraction. Just read an article on HOMEWARD INWARD which looked like one such Mirage. It made everyone to forget in a second the hounding of 1 million minorities , It made us to forget the 6000 temples and Hindu institutions whose identity has been grounded into the unsettled dust of worst ever home grown militancy.It made Nelson Mandella out of Hurriyat like a recent movie named INVICTED. Most of my Kashmiri Muslim friends who are still in kashmir or out of valley are so nice to me that one can just blindfold the eyes and set forth tomorrow morning back to valley from these vast dry and hot plains of North India. But that would be completing the optical dimensions of my thoughts through a reflecting prism which one would use in 9th standard Science practical’s. After graduating one needs to take Optics beyond 9th standard experiments. I wish to take out this Mirage and want to look over the wall for reality bites badly but it is important that rather than misleading the hoards of KP refugees into another hell in Kashmir,we must do some analysis before we welcome any conclusion of a *'happy come luck go'* media savvy personalities. In December 2009 , I spent my entire Christmas vacation in Jammu and met many people. Some filthy rich , some downtrodden and some like me ,fighting fit for survival. Among the odd mass of folks , that I met : was a family of Late Sh Poshkar Nath ( Name and Identity Changed ) . He died of an accident and JK govt was more than willing to give his only young daughter some Govt Job. Although he was a Class 2 officer but as per rules his daughter was given an another clerical post in his department. Condition laid by JK Govt was that she should work in Srinagar. Both Widow and destitute Daughter thought it more than appropriate to go over to Srinagar and start working there. Mother was more or less a caretaker and with a zeal to Guard her daughter in troubled waters of Kashmir. First few days saw an amazing bonhomie and communal unity. But soon reality dawned and they saw the other side of wicked communal world raking up under the carpets.. Although she was a clerical grade but her seat was provided next to peon who happened to be the known ruffian in the department. When this sister of ours went to officers cabin , He quickly proposed a night out in Gulmarg for pretext of Official trip. Outside, from Peon and the local people started making visits to her office with lewd remarks.Some asking for her hand and some asking her to convert. Some guaranteeing Bungalow and some seeking her affection by threat , perception or purchase. She soon realized that it was a time to give a call. One day she broke down in office and started shouting on all the male members of the office. Other female members from majority community rather than helping her , called her RSS agent and an Indian Bitch. It was now or never.. Peon of the said office often tried to molest her but got a nice kick from our brave sister. After lot of follow up with Ministers and other heads of department , she ultimately realized that it was the end of her innings in Kashmir. Both Mother and daughter returned back from Islamic Junta Republic saving their honour. How they are making their ends meet , I wont comprehend further but it is indeed a tip of the iceberg which should give us a signal that PARMESHWARI episodes are still not over in Kashmir. Of the 800 KP girls selected by JK govt, I can bet that 50% will be converted to Islam in next 2 yrs if we let them work in Kashmir. By threat , by manipulation , by motivation : they will make sure that our numbers dwindle. On Shivratri, a good Muslim friend of mine got me a nice gift from Srinagar and requested me to come over to kashmir. I had no doubts over his honest request and hugged him.. Tears came down because after long long time,someone had invited me to visit my own home.. It sounds bad but that is the reality. I was also very honest to tell him that since my ideology is against Hurriyat and been an active member in exile to oppose their theory and methodology as such , it wont take them much time to annihilate me. He replied that they know that I would be his guest as his own brothers have been Ex terrorists and none will ever dare to touch me. I asked him a question " What if your brother kills me ? " His blank face was a reply to my question and doubts that did cast their evil shadow in 1990. Kashmiri Muslims made a blanket statement that we wont harm you since we are good neighbours but we cant assure your safety, if outsiders from other villages would come to destroy to. This is a typical Insurance guarantee based on solicitation attitude. Being in IT,It is always good in maintaining client management and having learnt these skills from our Shawl wallahs who travel from kashmir and are our angels from Kashmir in Winter seasons. They are like our Kabulliwalas who let us know about the state of affairs in Kashmir. In 1979 my grandfather had made a land settlement with Tillers of his ancestral village and I must have been sucking thumb that time. As per the new land reforms,the muslim tillers got a good share of land and left most of the Hindus landless. Well , personally I am in favour of land reforms , thanks to my communist ideology which I studied for sometime. After 25 years , a Shawl walla visited us and he turned out to be the son in law of same KASHTKAR ( LAND TILLER ). In 25 yrs , they had become very rich and bountiful crops assured thay they ride high of econoical ladder facilitated by GOI economic policies. I was happy to reconnect to the roots from where my ancestors descended. Majid ( Shawl wala ) told me about the good old days that his father in law had spent with my Grand father. How they studied together and helped one another overlooking the communal divide. 3 years on and we would exchange telephone calls and greetings. My love and affection for their family till date is something which one cant express in words. Selected Swiss Chocolates and toffees from my overseas trip would get rotten in Freezer but Mom would preserve them for Majids Kids. Last year Father in Law Mohd Gufaar Bhatt ( Named Changed ) had a spiritual vision after tasting one such chocolate. Being a good Namazi and spiritually aligned person , he called on his progeny and announced to pay us some money in return of a land embezzlement that he had done in 1979 against my Grand Father. He wanted to wash off his sins before proceeding to grave. Since he was to Hajj recently and associated with DEEN a lot , he decided to make the payment. Majid agreed but other sons objected. Finally as per my sources, amount was reduced to half and finally Majid with one of the sons of Mohd Gufaar decided to call me with the offer. For sake of God , It looked to me that they have personally risen so high and esteemed that I would never ever even think of in any part of the world.But I just thought to test them. Amount wasnt too handsome but I considered it as a token of love and something to which I couldnt say no. I requested them not to pay me but keep equivalent value of land holding in my name ( wouldnt have been a 100 Sq yard as per current market rates ). Dud came the reply from Majid with whom I had endless discussion on Kehwa . "batan Haenz kabri sund tyen adhaah rozne bapat " meaning "Not even for grave of Kashmiri Pandit , forget to get a land for your habitat" These few incidents were an eye opener for me and hope that those who believe that HOMEWARD INWARD has started , they should realise that all that glitters isnt gold. please scratch a bit and realty will be very bad. From aliens at dataone.in Mon Nov 1 21:39:17 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 21:39:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR IS INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA In-Reply-To: <25901d43fa0cabe70949d742b4ccec84.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> References: <001001cb791c$5b774760$1265d620$@in> <25901d43fa0cabe70949d742b4ccec84.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <000c01cb79df$259d6110$70d82330$@in> Of course Pakistan was integral part of India, but few selfish people did the mischief. However, they can be unite if Pak concentrates in real developments and give away support to terrorists infrastructure. In that case she will be self sufficient out of the US funding/trap. That is the real and genuine way to calm down tension between the 2 countries. But, big question is that will US allow Pak for it? US have his selfish motto behind keeping tension between the 2 countries and using Kashmir as a main tool for it. Freedom of Kashmir is actually hidden agenda of US. This recent tension in Kashmir, even Arundhati Roy (AR) statement all are pre-planned strategy in the eve of US president visit to India. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: Patrice Riemens [mailto:patrice at xs4all.nl] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:29 PM To: anupam chakravartty Cc: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list Subject: Re: KASHMIR IS INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA Of course what Mr Trivedi (*) means is: PAKISTAN IS INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA! - but he won't dare write that, so this uncough firangi will do it for him... Cheers all the same, patrizio & Diiiinoos! (*) and many others with him > Dear Bipin, > > What is the source of this information? I am very much interested. Thanks > Anupam > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > >> 4 blunders made by our great leader Mr. Nehru as under. >> >> 1. In 1945, India was offered permanent membership by UN was denied by >> Nehru >> giving reason that china is more eligible for this than India! >> 2. Indian army has reached almost to Lahore in 1948 war but strangely at >> that time Nehru ordered army to come back and took Kashmir problem in >> the >> international forum. One can describe this move as anti-national. Else, >> at >> that time only we could have taken back POK and Kashmir would not be >> problematic state and no Kashmir issue exists. >> 3. Without any resistance, he accepted China's occupation of Tibet. >> Instead >> of plainly accepting such thing on China demand, he would have keep mum >> at >> that time. >> 4. His biggest mistake is to keep Mr. Menon as NSA and keep him >> continued >> even after he was giving wrong foreign advises many times. >> >> Everyone knows that Sardar Patel did some extraordinary tough job >> successfully by convincing various kingdoms of India by any means and >> made >> India united at that time. But, unfortunately for strange reason, Nehru >> took >> back charge of Kashmir from Sardar Patel and made blunders which we are >> suffering till today. If it was with Sardar at that time than there want >> be >> any Kashmir problem today. Along with Kashmir charge, Nehru wants >> Hyderabad >> state charge also but with boldly and firmly Sardar denied it and today >> Hyderabad/Andhra is not at all problematic state and feel proud to be >> with >> India. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin Trivedi >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From veeruz at gmail.com Mon Nov 1 22:06:24 2010 From: veeruz at gmail.com (Khaqsar Wangoo) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 22:06:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandit group files case against Geelani, Roy Message-ID: *Kashmiri Pandit group files case against Geelani, RoyIANS Link - ** http://sify.com/news/kashmiri-pandit-group-files-case-against-geelani-roy-news-national-klbuuehdafb.html * New Delhi: A Kashmiri Pandit group, Roots in Kashmir (RIK), on Monday filed a case against separatist leader Syed Ali Geelani, novelist-activist Arundhati Roy and others for speaking in favour of 'azadi' at a seminar last month. The RIK has alleged the speeches were 'seditious in nature and likely to affect public order and harmony'. 'On Oct 28, we filed a complaint at Tilak Marg police station, against the hate speeches delivered Oct 21 by Geelani, Roy and others. All this while we were waiting for government to act against these people,' said RIK activist Aditya Raj Kaul. He added that the government of India has 'remained a mute spectator' and RIK was left with little choice but to file a case in Patiala House court Monday against the 'hate-speech makers'. 'We expect the hearing to take place Wednesday,' Kaul said. 'The prayer of the complainant to the Court is to seek an immediate FIR and investigation into the case and initiate criminal proceedings against Hurriyat Chairman - S.A.R. Geelani, fiction-writer Arundhati Roy,' said Sushil Pandit, a complainant in the case. Other people against whom the complaint has been filed include writer Varavara Rao, activist Sujato Bhadra, Sarai founder Shuddhabrata Sengupta and Kashmir University law professor Showkat Hussain*.* * * From aliens at dataone.in Mon Nov 1 22:16:45 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 22:16:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER In-Reply-To: <03AF79505D1E436793123EEA70B3CDBF@tara> References: <000001cb78c9$39a0a4e0$ace1eea0$@in> <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> <03AF79505D1E436793123EEA70B3CDBF@tara> Message-ID: <000d01cb79e4$613aa9d0$23affd70$@in> Dear Tara, Thanks for pointing out this point. I am unaware for AR stand towards extremists in the Taslima episode. Of course AR is a bold lady and I appreciate her stand if its true. Except this stand towards Muslim extremists if it's true, she never spoke earlier against violence of Kashmir separatists or terrorists. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: TaraPrakash [mailto:taraprakash at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 3:38 AM To: Bipin Trivedi; 'Rajkamal Goswami' Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER Even if she did make some protest when the blood bath was on its peak, you wouldn't know. She wasn't prominent then, I believe. Except her sharing stage with that murderer SASG she has stuck to her principles. She was courageous enough to take on the Muslim extremists when they were after Taslima Nasreen when the government was pandering to those extremists. The risk she took could be very expensive but she didn't care. You must give that to her. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bipin Trivedi" To: "'Rajkamal Goswami'" Cc: "sarai-list" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER > Dear Rajkamal, > > Of course word chip I mean for cheap only as said by Aalok. Arundhati is > just publicity hunger nothing else. If she is really worrying for Kashmir > than where was she for 2 decades when bloodbath was created by few > Kashmiri > separatists and terrorists. Not a single word from her against these. Such > violent situation all these years effected heavily to common people of > Kashmir only. She never expressed any feeling for this proves that her > recent statement was just publicity stunt of her own. Perhaps you will > hear > some new booker like award for her! > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:29 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER > > Dear Trivediji, > > "she is just after negative and chip publicity" > > I wish to strongly contradict this view of yours. But before I do that > can you explain what do you mean by 'chip; here? > > Rajkamal > > On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> Guha says, "She's crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity >> fiend," Guha told Bangalore Mirror. "She hops from cause to cause, and > just >> look at the company she's keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah Geelani, > an >> ultimate bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an Islamic >> theocracy." >> >> While posting maoist topic discussion read my view on Arundhati as under: >> (1) When asked the question to Arundhati that most of people hate your > views >> and writing and believe your thought impractical. She replies, if whole >> of >> India hate me I have to believe I am wrong. Then why you waiting for, >> understand this and come back from your wrong belief now. This proves >> that >> she is just after negative and chip publicity. (2) Even government wants >> Arundhati to be mediator between the government and maoist, but she > denies. >> This is also creates doubt on her sincerity. What I think, she wants just >> mere publicity out of this and wants to create a show that she worried of >> tribal! By that way, she wants to increase sale of her books and reader >> audience. >> >> Same thing applicable now also. Kashmir problem is there since almost > after >> independence and its intensity increased since 2 decades, but I have not >> heard any comment earlier for this issue. So, why now? She always remain > of >> search of current hot topics and sensitized it to catch attention of >> media >> just for mere chip publicity. Dear Tara, you are right, after her shared >> stage with crook Geelani, many like you became her critics. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin Trivedi >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajkamal > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Mon Nov 1 22:20:56 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 22:20:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb78c9$39a0a4e0$ace1eea0$@in> <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> Message-ID: <000e01cb79e4$f775fbc0$e661f340$@in> Is Rajkamal publicity manager of AR? -----Original Message----- From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:30 AM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER Dear All, I just happened to finish reading perhaps the first non-fiction publication of Ms Roy (the link of which is provided below). I will just bullet point a few unique things that eventually became the signature style of her non-fiction writing. * Length: She might have pioneered the long-essay in popular weeklies of India. But given her obscurity during the pre-booker era (this was published in 1994), the essay was published in two parts. * Politics: A clear politics of socialism seems to be present throughout the essay, which eventually became more pronounced and evident in her later works. She talks at length about individual struggles, resistance, social justice, inequities and inadequacies of human society, rape, injustice, caste & geneder based exploitation, socio-economic dominance of high caste, power struggles, violence ..... *Endorsing the unlikely: In 1994, which mainstream/obscure/independent/celebrity writer had the proclivity/guts to write a completely biased, highly opinionated though highly persuasive and eloquent piece defending the basic rights of a person to his/her own life-story (in this particualr case: Phoolan Devi)! *Blunt activism: Now people accuse her of gaining mileage out of her celebrity status. I would say that she is perhaps the only celebrity in India who has stood her grounds, her morality, her ideology, her politics and her imagination throughout her adult life, her social-economic-celebrity status notwithstanding. Perhaps her writing, apart from anything else bears testimony to it. When she wrote this essay in 1994, neither she was an acclaimed author, (read financially stable) nor was she popular. On the contrary she was almost broke (financially) and this essay cost her a contract with channel 4 of UK (one of the financiers of Bandit Queen)! In one of her interviews she claimed that she can't write/imagine with a benefit (read money, fame and all the imagined vices that today she is claimed to starve for) in mind! I never doubted the fact that she meant every word of it! *Fiercely ethical: No personal attacks, no potshots, no hits below the belt! *Lucid prose: I lack words to describe it! *Well researched and mostly stating/relying on facts: No wonder she is invited by Harvard, MIT, Oxford, and Cambridge so often! There are many more but I will stop here as I am no Ms Roy! Link: http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq1.html http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq2.html Regards Rajkamal On 11/1/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear All, > > I context of the argument one might find this profile of Ms Roy > interesting. It was written well before she won the Booker! And that > time, the media came after her because her novel sold like no other > novel by an unpublished Indian ever (even NRI's like Rushdie's or > Seth's). She was guarding her privacy jealously before the media got > the whiff of it! I think that was the time when love-to-hate Ms Roy > saga began taking roots! > > This is the link to that article published in Outlook (Sep 25, 1996). > > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?202195 > > Regards > Rajkamal > > On 11/1/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: >> Dear Trivediji, >> >> While I respect your right to having a free opinion, I, at the same >> time wish to exercise my right: i.e. to disagree vehemently to your >> opinion. >> >> 1. Ms. Roy is not publicity hungry. Its the other way round. Its the >> popular print and electronic media people after sensational stories >> that are, and they find Ms. Roy as the perfect sacrificial doll each >> time Ms Roy writes/speaks something radically different (though not >> necessarily fantastic or untrue). >> >> 2. With regards the recent Kashmir-azadi cintroversy, all that Ms Roy >> did was give a talk at an obscure seminar in Delhi. The seminar >> (including what Ms Roy and other speakers said) would have remained >> obscure, but for the sensation-starved media! Ms Roy didn't shout at >> the top of her lungs from the rooftops demanding attention to what she >> spoke at the seminar. The media did. >> >> 3. Does Ms Roy happen to be so unfortunate that she won the booker >> prize before she started her politics/opinion came to be noticed? Was >> it her fault or the media's which jumped at the opportunity of >> publishing a booker winner! >> >> there are many more but for now i guess these will suffice. >> >> thanks and regards >> Rajkamal >> >> On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> Dear Rajkamal, >>> >>> Of course word chip I mean for cheap only as said by Aalok. Arundhati is >>> just publicity hunger nothing else. If she is really worrying for >>> Kashmir >>> than where was she for 2 decades when bloodbath was created by few >>> Kashmiri >>> separatists and terrorists. Not a single word from her against these. >>> Such >>> violent situation all these years effected heavily to common people of >>> Kashmir only. She never expressed any feeling for this proves that her >>> recent statement was just publicity stunt of her own. Perhaps you will >>> hear >>> some new booker like award for her! >>> >>> Thanks >>> Bipin Trivedi >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:29 PM >>> To: Bipin Trivedi >>> Cc: sarai-list >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER >>> >>> Dear Trivediji, >>> >>> "she is just after negative and chip publicity" >>> >>> I wish to strongly contradict this view of yours. But before I do that >>> can you explain what do you mean by 'chip; here? >>> >>> Rajkamal >>> >>> On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>>> Guha says, "She's crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity >>>> fiend," Guha told Bangalore Mirror. "She hops from cause to cause, and >>> just >>>> look at the company she's keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah >>>> Geelani, >>> an >>>> ultimate bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an >>>> Islamic >>>> theocracy." >>>> >>>> While posting maoist topic discussion read my view on Arundhati as >>>> under: >>>> (1) When asked the question to Arundhati that most of people hate your >>> views >>>> and writing and believe your thought impractical. She replies, if whole >>>> of >>>> India hate me I have to believe I am wrong. Then why you waiting for, >>>> understand this and come back from your wrong belief now. This proves >>>> that >>>> she is just after negative and chip publicity. (2) Even government >>>> wants >>>> Arundhati to be mediator between the government and maoist, but she >>> denies. >>>> This is also creates doubt on her sincerity. What I think, she wants >>>> just >>>> mere publicity out of this and wants to create a show that she worried >>>> of >>>> tribal! By that way, she wants to increase sale of her books and reader >>>> audience. >>>> >>>> Same thing applicable now also. Kashmir problem is there since almost >>> after >>>> independence and its intensity increased since 2 decades, but I have >>>> not >>>> heard any comment earlier for this issue. So, why now? She always >>>> remain >>> of >>>> search of current hot topics and sensitized it to catch attention of >>>> media >>>> just for mere chip publicity. Dear Tara, you are right, after her >>>> shared >>>> stage with crook Geelani, many like you became her critics. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Bipin Trivedi >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>>> in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rajkamal >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rajkamal >> > > > -- > Rajkamal > -- Rajkamal From aliens at dataone.in Mon Nov 1 22:49:58 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 22:49:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01cb79e9$030dfba0$0929f2e0$@in> Violant protest is always condemnable, whether it is against AR house or elsewhere. Peaceful protest against anyone is sign of healthy democracy. I also condemn protesters if damaged AR's house/property/society and must be punished under law if applicable. Of course same thing applicable to all, be it violent protesters of Kashmir destroying/damaging properties and innocent killing in the name freedom movement! I expect few words for this also. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:03 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence Dear Samit and you like on the list please hide ur heads in shame. and imagine if your sister was attacked by goons like that and it is too disgusting to demand evidence from the person who is too shaken. we have Media who know how to isolate an individual and push their viewership round the clock. They are running out of subjects. For them there should a be case of canibalism and rape every hour, and if not they may actually produce such acts, like Army did once in Sicachen. Shame. I wonder if these goons dare to throw a stone at tainted CM of Maharashtra, because our dear respected Generals are thickly involved. OUr Media has done it to Hussain who is living in exile, that too when Courts exonerated him for any obscenity charge . That is why Ashis Nandy said " censorship has a great future in India" And those who support it now, dont ralize that when and how and whom this monster devours without remorse let us wake up love is SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT A mob of about a hundred people arrived at my house at 11 this morning (Sunday October 31st 2010.) They broke through the gate and vandalized property. They shouted slogans against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to teach me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in place ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted largely of members of the BJP’s Mahila Morcha (Women’s wing). After they left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB vans hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an indication that a mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false report in the papers by Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles tried to stone the windows of my home. They too were accompanied by TV cameramen. What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media and mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then become accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that some TV channels and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob anger against me. In the race for sensationalism the line between reporting news and manufacturing news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have to be sacrificed at the altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated that it does not intend to go ahead with the charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at a recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. So the task of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by right wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced that they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal including filing cases against me all over the country. The whole country has seen what they are capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. So, while the Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the media and the infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe in mob justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to distract attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently been named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of ideological alignment? Arundhati Roy October 31st 2010 On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear Samvit, > > I seriously didn't mean it as a curse. I really apologize if I > conveyed that idea. And also I am sorry to know all that yo and your > family went through. What I really wished to say is that if We, as a > society, allow such things to perpetuate, it won't be long before we > too start facing the music. For eg: I am working on my PhD now which > deals with the issue of hunting of primates. If tomorrow I say that > primate meat forms an important diet of many people of India, does it > legitimize any violent protest by Hindu fundamentalist citing that > Hindus worship monkey? Should I or you allow people to get away with > such acts? Tomorrow, some mobs might attack me or Sonia or Anupam over > some idea that we discussed on this forum. Once it happens, there > won't be an end to it. Who else, better than you, who has suffered > first hand can understand the pain and humiliation that comes along > with it. > > Me and my family (in Assam) too have faced similar humiliation from > armed forces during the peak emergency in Assam. And that is the very > reason why I condemn any such acts which tatters the dignity of an > individual. > > Once again sorry for hurting you (unknowingly) through my mail. > > Regards > Rajkamal > > > > > On 11/1/10, Samvit wrote: >> Dear Rajkamal, >> You are too late. The mobs came long ago and did that. Infant they were all >> people I knew, grew up with and went to school. Many of them belong to the >> podium that Roy shared with. I am not sure about Shuddha, though. >> >> And unlike Ms Roy they did not do with one flower pot. They looted two >> houses and vandalized all the property. Whatever my father and grandfather >> had saved was looted by Islamic fundamentalists. They were all well read. >> After looting the houses they burnt them to embers. >> So my dear Rajkamal, your curse has come in late. But unlike most people I >> did not indulge in hating muslims. Today most of my friends are muslims and >> I have great regard for the community. >> The issue is that Roy, Navlakha and his cronies survive only on spreading >> canard, hate and indulge in dividing people on all lines. Because if they >> don't then how will they run their shops, theirs NGOs. >> -SR >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Samvit, >>> >>> I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would >>> come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and >>> damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and >>> thank them for exercising their right of expression. >>> >>> Thanks and regards >>> Rajkamal >>> >>> On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >>> > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media >>> and >>> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which >>> > positions >>> > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and >>> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal >>> > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media >>> then >>> > become accessory to the crime?" >>> > >>> > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 >>> > >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye for >>> >> an >>> >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just >>> reacted >>> >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who >>> were >>> >> protesting. Lets support them together." >>> >> >>> >> All the best >>> >> Anupam >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. >>> >>> Strangely, >>> >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans >>> >>> doesn't >>> >>> mean an attack is about to take place. >>> >>> >>> >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' >>> >>> for >>> >>> the >>> >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. >>> >>> >>> >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. >>> Lets >>> >>> support them together. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> > Dear Sonia, >>> >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses >>> democracy >>> >>> to >>> >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when they >>> >>> > are >>> >>> in >>> >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a >>> >>> frightened >>> >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He >>> >>> > apologized >>> >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then >>> >>> > could >>> >>> one >>> >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are >>> >>> similar >>> >>> > to >>> >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible for >>> >>> Gautam >>> >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After >>> that >>> >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! >>> >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga >>> desh!!". >>> >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke >>> >>> > aur >>> >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be >>> >>> > more >>> >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called "leftists/maoists". >>> >>> > -Sam >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> > > Dear Samvit, >>> >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free >>> >>> > > speech >>> >>> > and >>> >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The first >>> is >>> >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. To >>> call >>> >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with those >>> who >>> >>> can >>> >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a >>> >>> > > travesty. >>> >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering on >>> >>> people >>> >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. >>> >>> > > sj >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How >>> >>> conveniently >>> >>> > > > you >>> >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I think >>> it >>> >>> > > > is >>> >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right >>> >>> > > > to >>> >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. >>> >>> > > She >>> >>> > > > should >>> >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known >>> >>> > > > terrorists of >>> >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so >>> >>> > > > meek now that >>> >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, >>> >>> > > > obsene.... >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can >>> >>> > > > continue >>> >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there >>> >>> > > are >>> >>> > > > millions >>> >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some >>> >>> > > > "expression". >>> >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > On >>> >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < >>> shuddha at sarai.net >>> >>> > > >wrote: >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Dear all, >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in sections >>> >>> > > > of the >>> >>> > > > media >>> >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right >>> >>> > > > wing hooligans >>> >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by >>> >>> > > > attacks and >>> >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. It >>> >>> > > > is not Ms. >>> >>> > > > Roy >>> >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack >>> >>> > > > her who >>> >>> > > > pre-arrange to >>> >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt >>> >>> > > > to ransack her >>> >>> > > > residence. >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below >>> >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response >>> >>> > > > to >>> >>> > > > the most recent attack, >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > best, >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Shuddha >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > A mob of about a hundred people >>> >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning >>> >>> > > > (Sunday >>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They >>> >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. >>> >>> > > > They >>> >>> > > > shouted slogans >>> >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to >>> >>> > > > teach >>> >>> > > > me a >>> >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already >>> in >>> >>> > > > place >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob >>> >>> > > consisted> >>> >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). >>> After >>> >>> > they >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw >>> >>> > > > any >>> >>> OB >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > vans >>> >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an >>> >>> > > > indication >>> >>> > > > that a >>> >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false >>> >>> > > > report in the papers >>> >>> > > > by >>> >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles >>> >>> > > > tried to stone the >>> >>> > > > windows of >>> >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV >>> >>> > > > cameramen. >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of >>> >>> > > > the media and >>> >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media >>> >>> > > > which positions >>> >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the >>> >>> > > > attacks and >>> >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is >>> >>> > > > criminal >>> >>> > > > trespass >>> >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the >>> >>> > > > media then become >>> >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given >>> >>> > > > that some TV >>> >>> > > > channels >>> >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly >>> >>> > > > inciting mob anger against >>> >>> > > > me. In >>> >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line >>> >>> > > > between reporting news and >>> >>> > > > manufacturing >>> >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what >>> >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at >>> >>> > > > the >>> >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The >>> >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend >>> >>> > > > to >>> >>> > > > go ahead with the >>> >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at >>> >>> > > > a >>> >>> > > > recent seminar >>> >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to >>> >>> > > > have been taken on by >>> >>> > > > right >>> >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the >>> >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that >>> >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means >>> >>> > > > at their disposal including >>> >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. >>> >>> > > > The whole country has seen >>> >>> > > > what >>> >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to >>> >>> > > > which they are capable of going. >>> >>> > > > So, >>> >>> > > > while the Government is showing a >>> >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the >>> >>> > > > media >>> >>> > > > and the infrastructure of >>> >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe >>> >>> > > > in mob >>> >>> > > > justice? I can >>> >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to >>> >>> > > > distract >>> >>> > > > attention >>> >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently >>> >>> > > > been >>> >>> > > > named >>> >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in >>> which >>> >>> > > > several >>> >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the >>> >>> > > > mainstream >>> >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more >>> >>> > > > dangerous than a >>> >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of >>> >>> > > > ideological >>> >>> > > > alignment? >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > Arundhati Roy >>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010 >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > _________________________________________ >>> >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion >>> >>> > > > list on media and the city. >>> >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> > > > To subscribe: send >>> >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> > > > subscribe in the subject >>> >>> > > > header. >>> >>> > > > To unsubscribe: >>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > > > List archive: >>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > -- >>> >>> > > Samvit >>> >>> > > > Rawal >>> >>> > > 9422037853 >>> >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > > T >>> >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>> >>> > > - Franklin P. >>> >>> > > > Adams >>> >>> > > _________________________________________ >>> >>> > > reader-list: an open >>> >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> > > To >>> >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> > subscribe >>> >>> > > in >>> >>> > > > the subject header. >>> >>> > > To unsubscribe: >>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > > List archive: >>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > -- >>> >>> > Samvit Rawal >>> >>> > 9422037853 >>> >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. >>> >>> > - Franklin P. Adams >>> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> > >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> > in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rajkamal >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> > > > -- > Rajkamal > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From adityarajbaul at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 00:00:53 2010 From: adityarajbaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Baul) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 00:00:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arundhati roy has become a joke: Guha In-Reply-To: References: <41650DEB837F495F9BBCE106E248AA05@tara> Message-ID: for the record Never Called Arundhati Roy A 'Joke': Ram Guha http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2374&eid=5 Ramachandra Guha has written to clarify that the report about the remarks he was alleged to have made about Ms Roy in the Bangalore Mirror was a distortion, and that he has sent them a letter for publication. While the story continues to appear on the Bangalore Mirror website without any correction or reference to a letter, we are reproducing below the text of the letter enclosed by Mr Guha in full: To the Editor, Bangalore Mirror I was dismayed to see the lead story in your newspaper today (29th October). I never called Arundhati Roy a 'joke', and yet a fictitious remark has been made into a sensationalist headline. I did, as correctly reported, question the wisdom of Ms Roy's associating herself with Islamic theocrats in Kashmir. However, the false and misleading headlines have converted a substantive issue of political judgement into imagined rivalries between individual writers. When the Mirror’s reporter came to interview me, I insisted that he record the conversation. He did not do so, hence perhaps his resort to mistaken transcription or a fervid imagination. I am known to choose my words with precision, and do not ever use crude or comic language to characterize a person or idea. Ms Roy is not a ‘joke’, but a vigorous and somewhat one-sided polemicist. Incidentally, the interview was granted on the express understanding that it was to be about my new book, Makers of Modern India. I wish the report had focused more on the book, which is about truly remarkable Indians, and less on the rivalries between two rather inconsequential writers. Ramachandra Guha Bangalore On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:28 AM, anuradha mukherjee wrote: > Good we are discussing something other than Kashmir in this string, even if > tangentially. Roy at least alleviated the monotony. > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:24 AM, TaraPrakash wrote: > >> I am not sure if you took Guha seriously but I used to be a big fan of Roy. >> But after she shared stage with SASG, I won't be able to take her seriously, >> not even if she wins a Nobel. I am of course referring to Inder's suggestion >> that people will listen to her after she wins a Nobel prize. Probably she is >> aiming for it, since you made that suggestion. The committee doesn't many >> candidates left for Nobel peace prize. that specially seems true after they >> awarded Mr. Obama Nobel for peace last year. >> >> When I read Inder's email suggesting that Nobel, I was thinking of a form >> of poetry once popular in Italy, called Stornelli. The first line of the >> tripplet contains name of a flower. Like this: >> >> Flower of Roy >> Nobel is the goal >> Kashmir is a ploy. >> >> Flower of peace >> As it declines >> The chances increase. >> >> She's not a joke >> If she keeps it up >> She won't go broke. >> >> >> The suggestion is not that she is getting paid for her SASG posturing, I >> neither have means to prove nor ways to disprove those suggestions. But if >> you remain in limelight, your books are more likely to sell, you are not as >> forgotten as Kiran Desai or Mahashweta Debi. Both as I understand will be >> with Roy on the Kashmir issue but about SASG ????? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Inder Salim" >> To: "reader-list" >> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Arundhati roy has become a joke: Guha >> >> >> >> “We are worlds apart, our politics, our arguments. I’m >>> inclined to put as great a distance as possible between the Guhas of the >>> world and myself.” >>> >>> This what Roy, said, if one goes by the article posted by Mr. ARK >>> So what is the fuss, it is Gua ji himself who is crossing lines, >>> mixing the faculty of history with activism. he is doing is at his own >>> peril. >>> >>> . "Then > followed her opposition to Pokhran II. At that point, Guha >>> in a piece titled >>> >>>> ‘Arun Shourie of the Left’ reading comments like this, my suggestion to >>>> myself is that i should not take Gua ji seriously. Paradoxically, he seeing >>>> a genius in Gandhi, but would Gandhi support Dams and Nuclear test. I saw >>>> his theatrical gestures in front of Barkha Dutt, ( his latest company ). so >>>> what to say. >>>> >>> >>> however, there are some good quotes “Gandhi and Nehru’s genius to >>> obscure that wound, to overcome it and not make India a Hindu >>> Pakistan.” much to disappointment of Patal lovers. >>> >>> Well, i was actually a little late when i switched on TV. to see his >>> interview with our Genius Barkha Dutt ji on NDTV. . Gua said that in >>> absence of MA Jinnah, both Gandhi and Nehru would not have pursued ' >>> Secularism' in Congress politics, vigorously those days. So, the >>> indirect contribution of Jinnah in the making of India is immense, >>> >>> So, if one goes by this Gua logic,  how is A.Roy a joke? . Isnt she >>> pushing, single handedly the Indian state to look around their >>> shoulders and see the mountain of injustices piling up in every >>> sector. >>> >>> Thanks Mr. ARK for posting this >>> >>> with love >>> is >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Arundhati roy has become a joke: Guha*Link* - >>>> >>>> http://www.bangaloremirror.com/article/1/201010292010102903332299368035e3f/Arundhati-roy-has-become-a-joke-Guha.html >>>> >>>> Bangalore Mirror >>>> >>>> Nine years after the Booker winner snubbed him, eminent historian >>>> Ramachandra Guha makes the most of the opportunity to get even with her; >>>> says she’s a publicity fiend. >>>> >>>> Almost a decade after an intellectual controversy of V S Naipaul-Paul >>>> Theroux proportions, Ramachandra Guha claims that his stand against >>>> Arundhati Roy has been vindicated. >>>> >>>> “She’s crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity fiend,” Guha >>>> told >>>> Bangalore Mirror. “She hops from cause to cause, and just look at the >>>> company she’s keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah Geelani, an ultimate >>>> bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an Islamic >>>> theocracy.” >>>> >>>> The central government is contemplating slapping sedition charges on Roy >>>> for >>>> saying that Kashmir is not an integral part of India, but Guha believes >>>> that >>>> far more basic issues are involved. There is a reason, Guha says, why as >>>> a >>>> historian he doesn’t want to get too involved in Kashmir, the Maoist >>>> insurgency or, for that matter, even conservation movements. Apart from >>>> the >>>> obvious hubris of believing that an outsider can ‘speak for’ a community >>>> or >>>> a victim, Guha thinks it is far more challenging and nuanced from an >>>> intellectual standpoint to ‘listen to’ or ‘speak to’ victims as opposed >>>> to >>>> ‘speak for’ them. >>>> >>>> Casting himself firmly on the side of traditional historiography as >>>> against >>>> postmodern ones, that celebrate dissent and flux for their own sake, Guha >>>> agreed with Edward Said’s notion that scholarship has to always oppose >>>> the >>>> guild mentality that unquestioningly privileges notions like ‘country’, >>>> ‘citizen’, ‘community’ and the like above everything else. But it is also >>>> the scholar’s task, Guha asserts, to discern when an attack on these >>>> notions >>>> are warranted and when not. The current ‘seditious’ charges on Kashmir, >>>> emanating from certain quarters, in his view, certainly aren’t. >>>> >>>> The highly acrimonious spat between the two writers started after Roy, >>>> basking in her Booker fame, became a zealot for the anti-big dam cause. >>>> Then >>>> followed her opposition to Pokhran II. At that point, Guha in a piece >>>> titled >>>> ‘Arun Shourie of the Left’ wrote about how celebrity endorsements of >>>> social >>>> or political protest movements were fraught with danger because sooner >>>> than >>>> later the celebrity would replace the cause but he offered a seeming >>>> olive >>>> branch by saying that Roy and he were ‘objectively’ on the same side. >>>> >>>> Roy, in her riposte in the form of an exhaustive interview to a national >>>> fortnightly magazine in Jan 2001, was to dismiss this in no uncertain >>>> terms, >>>> criticising Guha’s “suspect politics and slapdash scholarship” and >>>> concluding that, “We are worlds apart, our politics, our arguments. I’m >>>> inclined to put as great a distance as possible between the Guhas of the >>>> world and myself.” >>>> >>>> Later Guha explained to an interviewer: “There was the worry of someone >>>> long >>>> involved with the environmental debate that the simplifications and >>>> exaggerations of Roy would tend to polarize issues and make meaningful >>>> environmental reform that much more difficult ...” >>>> >>>> Guha, who is busy with the launch of his latest book Makers of Modern >>>> India >>>> - “a kind of bridge” between his magisterial India After Gandhi - which >>>> was >>>> voted by the Economist and Wall Street Journal as the best book of the >>>> year >>>> in 2007, and the two-volume biography of Mahatma Gandhi he’s working on - >>>> said that “India has this habit of continuously surprising us.” Often in >>>> a >>>> not-so-good way. >>>> >>>> Talking of the three interlocutors for Kashmir, who got the job “just >>>> because they are close to the dynasty in Delhi”, he said the fact that >>>> the >>>> Indian state was not just violent or callous but so incompetent too came >>>> as >>>> a surprise. “The one Muslim in the team has been appointed for no other >>>> reason than his surname. The other two don’t even speak Urdu,” he said. >>>> “Why >>>> couldn’t they have appointed people who would have commanded respect from >>>> both sides, people who could act as genuine go-betweens. Right away I can >>>> name two - Rajmohan Gandhi and Swami Agnivesh.” >>>> >>>> In India After Gandhi, Guha claimed that Indian democracy was >>>> phifty-phifty, >>>> with an efficient ‘hardware’ but also with recurring ‘software’ problems. >>>> His implicit argument in that book, as well as in Makers of Modern India, >>>> is >>>> that despite troubled times, or perhaps especially in troubled times, it >>>> becomes necessary to harp on the strengths of Indian democracy. >>>> >>>> He explained that India was an “unnatural nation”, in that it defied many >>>> norms, particularly the one where nation states are founded on a ‘wound’. >>>> India had Partition, as horrible and near-fatal a ‘wound’ as possible but >>>> it >>>> was “Gandhi and Nehru’s genius to obscure that wound, to overcome it and >>>> not >>>> make India a Hindu Pakistan.” >>>> >>>> Denying that the Kashmir problem and other mutinies plaguing India were a >>>> result of our founding fathers’ refusal to confront the ‘wound’ squarely, >>>> he >>>> said that it was presumptuous to ponder if Sardar Patel would have >>>> handled >>>> India’s post-Independence destiny differently from Nehru. “We can always >>>> ask >>>> ‘what if’. But there has to be plausibility also. Patel was a great man, >>>> but >>>> Nehru was always, always Gandhi’s chosen successor,” he said. “Moreover, >>>> Patel was someone who never appealed to women, south Indians and Muslims >>>> which would have made him a suspect ‘national’ leader. A more interesting >>>> ‘what if’ would be Subash Chandra Bose - what with the man’s charisma, >>>> his >>>> visions, his whole unpredictability.” >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 11:04:44 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:04:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER In-Reply-To: <000e01cb79e4$f775fbc0$e661f340$@in> References: <000001cb78c9$39a0a4e0$ace1eea0$@in> <000f01cb7919$1ac061f0$504125d0$@in> <000e01cb79e4$f775fbc0$e661f340$@in> Message-ID: Bipin Trivedi, I was wondering what happened to your PR firm sponsoring advertisement on behalf of a Modi administration. Anupam On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Is Rajkamal publicity manager of AR? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:30 AM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER > > Dear All, > > I just happened to finish reading perhaps the first non-fiction > publication of Ms Roy (the link of which is provided below). I will > just bullet point a few unique things that eventually became the > signature style of her non-fiction writing. > > * Length: She might have pioneered the long-essay in popular weeklies > of India. But given her obscurity during the pre-booker era (this was > published in 1994), the essay was published in two parts. > > * Politics: A clear politics of socialism seems to be present > throughout the essay, which eventually became more pronounced and > evident in her later works. She talks at length about individual > struggles, resistance, social justice, inequities and inadequacies of > human society, rape, injustice, caste & geneder based exploitation, > socio-economic dominance of high caste, power struggles, violence > ..... > > *Endorsing the unlikely: In 1994, which > mainstream/obscure/independent/celebrity writer had the > proclivity/guts to write a completely biased, highly opinionated > though highly persuasive and eloquent piece defending the basic rights > of a person to his/her own life-story (in this particualr case: > Phoolan Devi)! > > *Blunt activism: Now people accuse her of gaining mileage out of her > celebrity status. I would say that she is perhaps the only celebrity > in India who has stood her grounds, her morality, her ideology, her > politics and her imagination throughout her adult life, her > social-economic-celebrity status notwithstanding. Perhaps her writing, > apart from anything else bears testimony to it. When she wrote this > essay in 1994, neither she was an acclaimed author, (read financially > stable) nor was she popular. On the contrary she was almost broke > (financially) and this essay cost her a contract with channel 4 of UK > (one of the financiers of Bandit Queen)! In one of her interviews she > claimed that she can't write/imagine with a benefit (read money, fame > and all the imagined vices that today she is claimed to starve for) in > mind! I never doubted the fact that she meant every word of it! > > *Fiercely ethical: No personal attacks, no potshots, no hits below the > belt! > > *Lucid prose: I lack words to describe it! > > *Well researched and mostly stating/relying on facts: No wonder she is > invited by Harvard, MIT, Oxford, and Cambridge so often! > > There are many more but I will stop here as I am no Ms Roy! > > Link: http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq1.html > http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq2.html > > Regards > Rajkamal > > > On 11/1/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > I context of the argument one might find this profile of Ms Roy > > interesting. It was written well before she won the Booker! And that > > time, the media came after her because her novel sold like no other > > novel by an unpublished Indian ever (even NRI's like Rushdie's or > > Seth's). She was guarding her privacy jealously before the media got > > the whiff of it! I think that was the time when love-to-hate Ms Roy > > saga began taking roots! > > > > This is the link to that article published in Outlook (Sep 25, 1996). > > > > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?202195 > > > > Regards > > Rajkamal > > > > On 11/1/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > >> Dear Trivediji, > >> > >> While I respect your right to having a free opinion, I, at the same > >> time wish to exercise my right: i.e. to disagree vehemently to your > >> opinion. > >> > >> 1. Ms. Roy is not publicity hungry. Its the other way round. Its the > >> popular print and electronic media people after sensational stories > >> that are, and they find Ms. Roy as the perfect sacrificial doll each > >> time Ms Roy writes/speaks something radically different (though not > >> necessarily fantastic or untrue). > >> > >> 2. With regards the recent Kashmir-azadi cintroversy, all that Ms Roy > >> did was give a talk at an obscure seminar in Delhi. The seminar > >> (including what Ms Roy and other speakers said) would have remained > >> obscure, but for the sensation-starved media! Ms Roy didn't shout at > >> the top of her lungs from the rooftops demanding attention to what she > >> spoke at the seminar. The media did. > >> > >> 3. Does Ms Roy happen to be so unfortunate that she won the booker > >> prize before she started her politics/opinion came to be noticed? Was > >> it her fault or the media's which jumped at the opportunity of > >> publishing a booker winner! > >> > >> there are many more but for now i guess these will suffice. > >> > >> thanks and regards > >> Rajkamal > >> > >> On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > >>> Dear Rajkamal, > >>> > >>> Of course word chip I mean for cheap only as said by Aalok. Arundhati > is > >>> just publicity hunger nothing else. If she is really worrying for > >>> Kashmir > >>> than where was she for 2 decades when bloodbath was created by few > >>> Kashmiri > >>> separatists and terrorists. Not a single word from her against these. > >>> Such > >>> violent situation all these years effected heavily to common people of > >>> Kashmir only. She never expressed any feeling for this proves that her > >>> recent statement was just publicity stunt of her own. Perhaps you will > >>> hear > >>> some new booker like award for her! > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Bipin Trivedi > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Rajkamal Goswami [mailto:rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:29 PM > >>> To: Bipin Trivedi > >>> Cc: sarai-list > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ARUNDHATI - PUBLICITY HUNGER > >>> > >>> Dear Trivediji, > >>> > >>> "she is just after negative and chip publicity" > >>> > >>> I wish to strongly contradict this view of yours. But before I do that > >>> can you explain what do you mean by 'chip; here? > >>> > >>> Rajkamal > >>> > >>> On 10/31/10, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > >>>> Guha says, "She's crazy. Arundhati Roy has become a joke, a publicity > >>>> fiend," Guha told Bangalore Mirror. "She hops from cause to cause, and > >>> just > >>>> look at the company she's keeping ... the likes of Syed Ali Shah > >>>> Geelani, > >>> an > >>>> ultimate bigot who wants to keep women in purdah and bring in an > >>>> Islamic > >>>> theocracy." > >>>> > >>>> While posting maoist topic discussion read my view on Arundhati as > >>>> under: > >>>> (1) When asked the question to Arundhati that most of people hate your > >>> views > >>>> and writing and believe your thought impractical. She replies, if > whole > >>>> of > >>>> India hate me I have to believe I am wrong. Then why you waiting for, > >>>> understand this and come back from your wrong belief now. This proves > >>>> that > >>>> she is just after negative and chip publicity. (2) Even government > >>>> wants > >>>> Arundhati to be mediator between the government and maoist, but she > >>> denies. > >>>> This is also creates doubt on her sincerity. What I think, she wants > >>>> just > >>>> mere publicity out of this and wants to create a show that she worried > >>>> of > >>>> tribal! By that way, she wants to increase sale of her books and > reader > >>>> audience. > >>>> > >>>> Same thing applicable now also. Kashmir problem is there since almost > >>> after > >>>> independence and its intensity increased since 2 decades, but I have > >>>> not > >>>> heard any comment earlier for this issue. So, why now? She always > >>>> remain > >>> of > >>>> search of current hot topics and sensitized it to catch attention of > >>>> media > >>>> just for mere chip publicity. Dear Tara, you are right, after her > >>>> shared > >>>> stage with crook Geelani, many like you became her critics. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Bipin Trivedi > >>>> > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe > >>>> in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Rajkamal > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Rajkamal > >> > > > > > > -- > > Rajkamal > > > > > -- > Rajkamal > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 11:16:31 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:16:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her Residence In-Reply-To: <000f01cb79e9$030dfba0$0929f2e0$@in> References: <000f01cb79e9$030dfba0$0929f2e0$@in> Message-ID: Bipin Trivedi, In a fascist state, same thing is applicable to all. However, when the state evolves from fascist to what has been called a real democratic state, every issue is treated in its own unique context. An in depth understanding of the issues is needed. Unfortunately, you are trying to homogenise the issues and say "same thing is applicable to all" adding a "punishment". Can you tell me if it is a sign of a healthy society? If "punishment" follows because "same set of laws applies to all" where is the individual? Would you frame same laws for Eastern belt of Narmada district in Gujarat and have an equal set of laws for Kutch? I am sure you are well acquainted with Gujarat, so you know what i am referring to. If you say, yes, then stay assured that you will soon get a string of mails from across these areas acquainting you with the unique nature of the laws that prevail in both of these regions. That same law doesnt apply everywhere. It is a misnomer. If the Indian state wants to do that, then it is fooling its own people. Anupam On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Violant protest is always condemnable, whether it is against AR house or > elsewhere. Peaceful protest against anyone is sign of healthy democracy. I > also condemn protesters if damaged AR's house/property/society and must be > punished under law if applicable. > > Of course same thing applicable to all, be it violent protesters of Kashmir > destroying/damaging properties and innocent killing in the name freedom > movement! I expect few words for this also. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:03 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Statement by Arundhati Roy on the Attack on her > Residence > > Dear Samit and you like on the list > > please hide ur heads in shame. > and imagine if your sister was attacked by goons like that > > and it is too disgusting to demand evidence from the person who is too > shaken. > > we have Media who know how to isolate an individual and push their > viewership round the clock. They are running out of subjects. For them > there should a be case of canibalism and rape every hour, and if not > they may actually produce such acts, like Army did once in Sicachen. > Shame. > > I wonder if these goons dare to throw a stone at tainted CM of > Maharashtra, because our dear respected Generals are thickly > involved. > > OUr Media has done it to Hussain who is living in exile, that too when > Courts exonerated him for any obscenity charge . That is why Ashis > Nandy said " censorship has a great future in India" > > And those who support it now, dont ralize that when and how and whom > this monster devours without remorse > > let us wake up > > love > is > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > > A mob of about a hundred people arrived at my house at 11 this morning > (Sunday > October 31st 2010.) They broke through the gate and vandalized property. > They > shouted slogans against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > teach > me a lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were already in > place > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the mob consisted > largely of members of the BJP’s Mahila Morcha (Women’s wing). After they > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we saw any OB > vans > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an indication > that a > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false report in the papers > by > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles tried to stone the > windows of > my home. They too were accompanied by TV cameramen. > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the media and > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which positions > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks and > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > trespass > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media then become > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given that some TV > channels > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly inciting mob anger against > me. In > the race for sensationalism the line between reporting news and > manufacturing > news is becoming blurred. So what if a few people have to be sacrificed at > the > altar of TRP ratings? The Government has indicated that it does not intend > to > go ahead with the charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > a > recent seminar on Azadi for Kashmir. > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to have been taken on by > right > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the RSS have openly announced that > they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal including > filing cases against me all over the country. The whole country has seen > what > they are capable of doing, the extent to which they are capable of going. > So, > while the Government is showing a degree of maturity, are sections of the > media > and the infrastructure of democracy being rented out to those who believe > in mob > justice? I can understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > distract > attention the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has recently > been > named in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in which > several people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of the > mainstream media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > dangerous than a suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > ideological > alignment? > > Arundhati Roy > October 31st 2010 > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Rajkamal Goswami > wrote: > > Dear Samvit, > > > > I seriously didn't mean it as a curse. I really apologize if I > > conveyed that idea. And also I am sorry to know all that yo and your > > family went through. What I really wished to say is that if We, as a > > society, allow such things to perpetuate, it won't be long before we > > too start facing the music. For eg: I am working on my PhD now which > > deals with the issue of hunting of primates. If tomorrow I say that > > primate meat forms an important diet of many people of India, does it > > legitimize any violent protest by Hindu fundamentalist citing that > > Hindus worship monkey? Should I or you allow people to get away with > > such acts? Tomorrow, some mobs might attack me or Sonia or Anupam over > > some idea that we discussed on this forum. Once it happens, there > > won't be an end to it. Who else, better than you, who has suffered > > first hand can understand the pain and humiliation that comes along > > with it. > > > > Me and my family (in Assam) too have faced similar humiliation from > > armed forces during the peak emergency in Assam. And that is the very > > reason why I condemn any such acts which tatters the dignity of an > > individual. > > > > Once again sorry for hurting you (unknowingly) through my mail. > > > > Regards > > Rajkamal > > > > > > > > > > On 11/1/10, Samvit wrote: > >> Dear Rajkamal, > >> You are too late. The mobs came long ago and did that. Infant they were > all > >> people I knew, grew up with and went to school. Many of them belong to > the > >> podium that Roy shared with. I am not sure about Shuddha, though. > >> > >> And unlike Ms Roy they did not do with one flower pot. They looted two > >> houses and vandalized all the property. Whatever my father and > grandfather > >> had saved was looted by Islamic fundamentalists. They were all well > read. > >> After looting the houses they burnt them to embers. > >> So my dear Rajkamal, your curse has come in late. But unlike most people > I > >> did not indulge in hating muslims. Today most of my friends are muslims > and > >> I have great regard for the community. > >> The issue is that Roy, Navlakha and his cronies survive only on > spreading > >> canard, hate and indulge in dividing people on all lines. Because if > they > >> don't then how will they run their shops, theirs NGOs. > >> -SR > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Samvit, > >>> > >>> I would say nothing but wait for that day when some protesters would > >>> come and do a violent dharna infront of your residence and break and > >>> damage your personal property. I am sure you would embrace them and > >>> thank them for exercising their right of expression. > >>> > >>> Thanks and regards > >>> Rajkamal > >>> > >>> On 11/1/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >>> > "What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of the > media > >>> and > >>> > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media which > >>> > positions > >>> > itself at the ‘scene’ in advance have a guarantee that the attacks > and > >>> > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is criminal > >>> > trespass (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the media > >>> then > >>> > become accessory to the crime?" > >>> > > >>> > http://www.countermedia.in/?p=298 > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:46 PM, anupam chakravartty > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> How have we understood freedom of expression Mr Kaul? With an eye > for > >>> >> an > >>> >> eye? how is it expression then? what have you expressed? you just > >>> reacted > >>> >> with a statement: "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies > who > >>> were > >>> >> protesting. Lets support them together." > >>> >> > >>> >> All the best > >>> >> Anupam > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >>> I would condemn this so called 'attack' once I see the pictures. > >>> >>> Strangely, > >>> >>> even the Police couldn't see anything. Merely stationing of OB Vans > >>> >>> doesn't > >>> >>> mean an attack is about to take place. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Let Krishenji with Arundhati provide some pictures of 'hooliganism' > >>> >>> for > >>> >>> the > >>> >>> world to see rather than press statements for publicity sake. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, you see, for the ladies who were protesting. > >>> Lets > >>> >>> support them together. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Samvit wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Dear Sonia, > >>> >>> > I think what Rashneek's wrote answers your question. Roy uses > >>> democracy > >>> >>> to > >>> >>> > tarnish democracy. She and her cronies bend on their knees when > they > >>> >>> > are > >>> >>> in > >>> >>> > the Valley. You should have seen how Gautam was sitting like a > >>> >>> frightened > >>> >>> > pigeon before he went on to speak at the Saddar Court complex. He > >>> >>> > apologized > >>> >>> > for his facebook remarks, took his statement back and only then > >>> >>> > could > >>> >>> one > >>> >>> > see him breathing easy. He knew the rules of the Valley, they are > >>> >>> similar > >>> >>> > to > >>> >>> > the ones that Roy follows. It would have been almost impossible > for > >>> >>> Gautam > >>> >>> > to step his foot in Kashmir if he did not go with the flow. After > >>> that > >>> >>> > statement, the goshtabas flowed. Talk about Goshtaba diplomacy!! > >>> >>> > Sonia, you must have heard Roy calling India a "bhookha, nanga > >>> desh!!". > >>> >>> > Perhaps, this could also be used for her- "ek ghoshtabe ke bhooke > >>> >>> > aur > >>> >>> > ad-nangee Roy!" but then the "hooligan right wingers" seem to be > >>> >>> > more > >>> >>> > cultured than the "ghoshtaba eating "so called > "leftists/maoists". > >>> >>> > -Sam > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:13 AM, SJabbar > > >>> >>> wrote: > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > Dear Samvit, > >>> >>> > > You need to distinguish between the right to expression or free > >>> >>> > > speech > >>> >>> > and > >>> >>> > > the right to indulge in violence or to incite violence. The > first > >>> is > >>> >>> > > enshrined in our constitution, the second punishable by law. > To > >>> call > >>> >>> > > Arundhati Roy a thug and to equate her political views with > those > >>> who > >>> >>> can > >>> >>> > > only counter her political views with physical violence is a > >>> >>> > > travesty. > >>> >>> > > You cannot wish someone "good health and safety" while cheering > on > >>> >>> people > >>> >>> > > bent on tearing down her house and doing her injury. > >>> >>> > > sj > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > On 01/11/10 9:15 AM, "Samvit" wrote: > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > A classic example of *pot calling the kettle black*. How > >>> >>> conveniently > >>> >>> > > > you > >>> >>> > > abuse and slot others. If someone is attacking Roy's house I > think > >>> it > >>> >>> > > > is > >>> >>> > > their way of expression. Roy doesn't hold a monopoly on "right > >>> >>> > > > to > >>> >>> > > expression" and neither does she decide where to draw the line. > >>> >>> > > She > >>> >>> > > > should > >>> >>> > > be knowing all this very well since she keeps company of known > >>> >>> > > > terrorists of > >>> >>> > > the ilk that were seen in Delhi with her. Why do you feel so > >>> >>> > > > meek now that > >>> >>> > > you have to be sladerous?? using words like.....hooligans, > >>> >>> > > > obsene.... > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > Although I wish her good health and safety so that she can > >>> >>> > > > continue > >>> >>> > > gallavanting from place to place, topic to topic but then there > >>> >>> > > are > >>> >>> > > > millions > >>> >>> > > out there who get inspired by her and want to teach her some > >>> >>> > > > "expression". > >>> >>> > > Thugs like her understand the language of thugs, perhaps. > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > On > >>> >>> > > > Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM, shuddha at sarai.net < > >>> shuddha at sarai.net > >>> >>> > > >wrote: > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > Dear all, > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > the disgusting and obscene attacks on Arundhati Roy in > sections > >>> >>> > > > of the > >>> >>> > > > media > >>> >>> > > > and even, unfortunately on a forum like this one by right > >>> >>> > > > wing hooligans > >>> >>> > > > (including some on this list) is now being complemented by > >>> >>> > > > attacks and > >>> >>> > > > vandalism at her residence, in the full glare of the media. > It > >>> >>> > > > is not Ms. > >>> >>> > > > Roy > >>> >>> > > > who seeks out media coverage, it is the thugs who attack > >>> >>> > > > her who > >>> >>> > > > pre-arrange to > >>> >>> > > > have television OB vans in place while they attempt > >>> >>> > > > to ransack her > >>> >>> > > > residence. > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > Those interested may read the statement below > >>> >>> > > > by Arundhati Roy in response > >>> >>> > > > to > >>> >>> > > > the most recent attack, > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > best, > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > Shuddha > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > SOMETHING FOR THE MEDIA TO THINK ABOUT > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > A mob of about a hundred people > >>> >>> > > > arrived at my house at 11 this morning > >>> >>> > > > (Sunday > >>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010.) They > >>> >>> > > > broke through the gate and vandalized property. > >>> >>> > > > They > >>> >>> > > > shouted slogans > >>> >>> > > > against me for my views on K...ashmir, and threatened to > >>> >>> > > > teach > >>> >>> > > > me a > >>> >>> > > > lesson. The OB Vans of NDTV, Times Now and News 24 were > already > >>> in > >>> >>> > > > place > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > ostensibly to cover the event live. TV reports say that the > mob > >>> >>> > > consisted> > >>> >>> > > > largely of members of the BJP¹s Mahila Morcha (Women¹s wing). > >>> After > >>> >>> > they > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > left, the police advised us to let them know if in future we > saw > >>> >>> > > > any > >>> >>> OB > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > vans > >>> >>> > > > hanging around the neighborhood because they said that was an > >>> >>> > > > indication > >>> >>> > > > that a > >>> >>> > > > mob was on its way. In June this year, after a false > >>> >>> > > > report in the papers > >>> >>> > > > by > >>> >>> > > > Press Trust of India (PTI) two men on motorcycles > >>> >>> > > > tried to stone the > >>> >>> > > > windows of > >>> >>> > > > my home. They too were accompanied by TV > >>> >>> > > > cameramen. > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > What is the nature of the agreement between these sections of > >>> >>> > > > the media and > >>> >>> > > > mobs and criminals in search of spectacle? Does the media > >>> >>> > > > which positions > >>> >>> > > > itself at the Œscene¹ in advance have a guarantee that the > >>> >>> > > > attacks and > >>> >>> > > > demonstrations will be non-violent? What happens if there is > >>> >>> > > > criminal > >>> >>> > > > trespass > >>> >>> > > > (as there was today) or even something worse? Does the > >>> >>> > > > media then become > >>> >>> > > > accessory to the crime? This question is important, given > >>> >>> > > > that some TV > >>> >>> > > > channels > >>> >>> > > > and newspapers are in the process of brazenly > >>> >>> > > > inciting mob anger against > >>> >>> > > > me. In > >>> >>> > > > the race for sensationalism the line > >>> >>> > > > between reporting news and > >>> >>> > > > manufacturing > >>> >>> > > > news is becoming blurred. So what > >>> >>> > > > if a few people have to be sacrificed at > >>> >>> > > > the > >>> >>> > > > altar of TRP ratings? The > >>> >>> > > > Government has indicated that it does not intend > >>> >>> > > > to > >>> >>> > > > go ahead with the > >>> >>> > > > charges of sedition against me and the other speakers at > >>> >>> > > > a > >>> >>> > > > recent seminar > >>> >>> > > > on Azadi for Kashmir. > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > So the task of punishing me for my views seems to > >>> >>> > > > have been taken on by > >>> >>> > > > right > >>> >>> > > > wing storm troopers. The Bajrang Dal and the > >>> >>> > > > RSS have openly announced that > >>> >>> > > > they are going to ³fix² me with all the means > >>> >>> > > > at their disposal including > >>> >>> > > > filing cases against me all over the country. > >>> >>> > > > The whole country has seen > >>> >>> > > > what > >>> >>> > > > they are capable of doing, the extent to > >>> >>> > > > which they are capable of going. > >>> >>> > > > So, > >>> >>> > > > while the Government is showing a > >>> >>> > > > degree of maturity, are sections of the > >>> >>> > > > media > >>> >>> > > > and the infrastructure of > >>> >>> > > > democracy being rented out to those who believe > >>> >>> > > > in mob > >>> >>> > > > justice? I can > >>> >>> > > > understand that the BJP's Mahila Morcha is using me to > >>> >>> > > > distract > >>> >>> > > > attention > >>> >>> > > > the from the senior RSS activist Indresh Kumar who has > recently > >>> >>> > > > been > >>> >>> > > > named > >>> >>> > > > in the CBI charge-sheet for the bomb blast in Ajmer Sharif in > >>> which > >>> >>> > > > several > >>> >>> > > > people were killed and many injured. But why are sections of > the > >>> >>> > > > mainstream > >>> >>> > > > media doing the same? Is a writer with unpopular views more > >>> >>> > > > dangerous than a > >>> >>> > > > suspect in a bomb blast? Or is it a question of > >>> >>> > > > ideological > >>> >>> > > > alignment? > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > Arundhati Roy > >>> >>> > > > October 31st 2010 > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > _________________________________________ > >>> >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion > >>> >>> > > > list on media and the city. > >>> >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> >>> > > > To subscribe: send > >>> >>> > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> >>> > > > subscribe in the subject > >>> >>> > > > header. > >>> >>> > > > To unsubscribe: > >>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> >>> > > > List archive: > >>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > -- > >>> >>> > > Samvit > >>> >>> > > > Rawal > >>> >>> > > 9422037853 > >>> >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>> >>> > > T > >>> >>> > > > o err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > >>> >>> > > - Franklin P. > >>> >>> > > > Adams > >>> >>> > > _________________________________________ > >>> >>> > > reader-list: an open > >>> >>> > > > discussion list on media and the city. > >>> >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> >>> > > To > >>> >>> > > > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >>> >>> > subscribe > >>> >>> > > in > >>> >>> > > > the subject header. > >>> >>> > > To unsubscribe: > >>> >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> >>> > > List archive: > >>> >>> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > -- > >>> >>> > Samvit Rawal > >>> >>> > 9422037853 > >>> >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>> >>> > To err is human; to forgive, infrequent. > >>> >>> > - Franklin P. Adams > >>> >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >>> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >>> >>> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> _________________________________________ > >>> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> >>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> >>> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe > >>> > in the subject header. > >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Rajkamal > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Rajkamal > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 2 11:41:03 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Demand to uphold free speech and expression Message-ID: <859916.20954.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> DEMAND TO UPHOLD FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION PUBLIC STATEMENT We condemn the demand of the BJP to “take the strongest possible action” against Arundhati Roy for her “seditious comments” at the seminar, “Azadi: The only way” held in New Delhi, October 21, 2010. There is recorded evidence to prove that the views expressed by her are not new and have also been made by innumerable others before and after her. If Arundhati Roy or Syed Ali Shah Geelani (or any other speaker from that seminar) is to be arrested for what they have said, then by the same logic a number of us would have to be imprisoned not to mention the entire population of Kashmir. The concept of `sedition’ is archaic and has no place in a modern democratic imagination. Perhaps for this reason the Drafting Committee of the Indian Constitution did not include “sedition” among the “reasonable restrictions” to Article 19(1) (a). In 1962, the Supreme Court (Kedar Nath Singh vs. the State of Bihar) read down Section 124A IPC to argue that only a call to violence or armed rebellion qualified to be considered as `sedition’. The same Judgement reiterated the importance of not allowing the provision to interfere with the Right to Free Speech and Expression. As the present controversy proves, the Supreme Court’s worst fears have been confirmed. The Bajrang Dal’s threat that they will hound Arundhati Roy like M.F Hussain provides further confirmation that `sedition’ will now be the new pretext for censorship. When the British charged Gandhi with sedition, he famously said, “Sedition in law is a deliberate crime but it appears to me to be the highest duty of a citizen.” Expressing dissent about thenation-state and re-imagining its future is certainly the right of every citizen if not the “highest duty”. We would like to point out that the disruption of the meeting and the allegations of `sedition’ is part of a well orchestrated campaign. The right wing elements who disrupted the Azadi meeting were working in tandem with certain media channels who flouted all norms of professional journalism to create hysteria. In what appears to be an instance of `paid news’, a certain national news channel started a one-sided campaign against “splittists” and the “sedition industry” within hours of the meeting being held. The `report’ only focused on two speakers and their supposed “seditious” utterances. It is understandable that the BJP, in an attempt to deflect attention from the Ajmer Blast case, should indulge in hyper-jingoism but it is most unfortunate that the UPA, while deciding not to press charges of sedition against the speakers, did not assert their right to free speech and expression. Their silence on this matter has only emboldened groups like the Bajrang Dal who now want to take matters into their own hands. This is perhaps expected from a government that has sought to suppress all dissent in the valley through brute force. Between June and October 2010, 111 people have been killed by security forces and this includes young boys who were not even participating in the protests. Countless have been maimed and injured by bullet injuries while many have been blinded by the catapults with marble shots used by the CRPF. For over two decades now, the armed and security forces have been committing extra-judicial killings, torture, disappearances and rape with impunity. Draconian legislations like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, the Jammu and &Kashmir Public Safety Act and the Disturbed Areas Act continue to facilitate human rights abuses in the valley. The hysterical cry to enforce the rule of law in the case of the Azadi seminar contrasts with the long silence about the widespread and systematic human rights violations in Kashmir. By allowing the speakers of the Azadi seminar to be censored, the government hopes to maintain its silence on Kashmir. We therefore demand that the government take full cognizance of the continuing violation of human rights in the valley, make the security forces fully accountable so that the guilty can be prosecuted and punished. We demand that the democratic right to free speech and expression is upheld and every citizen in this country, including the speakers of the Azadi seminar, is given full protection from any attempt to impose legal or extra-legal censorship. Signatories: Vrinda Grover Lawyer, Delhi Shohini Ghosh Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi Nivedita Menon Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi Amar Kanwar Filmmaker & Artist, Delhi Ranjani Mazumdar Associate Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Aditya Nigam Fellow, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies Dayanita Singh Photographer, Delhi Urvashi Butalia Writer and Publisher, Delhi Lawrence Liang Alternative Law Forum, Bangalore Sabeena Gadihoke Associate Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi Saba Dewan Independent Filmmaker Aparna Sen Filmmaker and Actress, Kolkata Kalyan Ray Author and Professor, Morris College, USA. Joya Chatterji Historian, Trinity College, University of Cambridge, UK. Lakshmi Subramaniam Professor, Centre for Social Sciences, Kolkata Kajri Jain Asst. Professor, University of Toronto, Toronto. Kumkum Roy Historian, Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Delhi Kamala Vishweshwaran Professor of Anthropology, University of Texas, Austin Shikha Jhingan Asst. Professor, Lady Shri Ram College, Delhi University, Delhi. Anjali Monteiro Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. Kalyani Menon-Sen Researcher & Independent Activist, Gurgaon Uma Chakravarty Historian (Retired Professor, Delhi University) Delhi KP Jayshankar Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. Pamela Philipose Journalist & Director. Womens Feature Service Harsh Mandar Writer and Activist Gauhar Raza Filmmaker & Poet, Delhi Anuradha Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi Shabnam Hashmi Social Activist, Anhad Neeraj Malik Associate Professor, Indraprastha College, Delhi University Javed Malick Retired Professor, Delhi University Madhu Bhaduri Former, IFS Officer Anuradha Bhasin Executive Editor, Kashmir Times Jyotsna Kapur Assoc. Professor, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. Dunu Roy Environmentalist, Hazard Centre, Delhi Kamal Mitra Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi Ujjwal Kumar Singh Professor, Delhi University, Delhi. Mahua Sarkar Assoc. Professor, Binghampton University, SUNY Arvind Narrain Lawyer, Alternative Law Forum Rebecca M. John Lawyer, Delhi Amita Baviskar Associate Professor, Institute of Economic Growth Sarada Balagopalan Associate Fellow, CSDS Kaushik Ghosh Assistant Professor, University of Texas, Austin (Issued in November 2010) From shashidhar at butterfliesindia.org Tue Nov 2 14:57:17 2010 From: shashidhar at butterfliesindia.org (Shashidhar) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:57:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare Message-ID: <008601cb7a70$249fa840$6ddef8c0$@butterfliesindia.org> Good write up on the MFI nightmare in Andhra http://beta.epw.in/newsItem/comment/188904/ Shashi Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare M S Sriram It was inevitable that the commercial model of microfinance in India, with its minimalist and standardised model of lending, would grow into a bubble and run into trouble. Many microfinance commercial organisations have entered the market in search of profits and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they have put the “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started chasing targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not seen as human beings having individual identities and needs. Instead they are seen as data points that add up in their profit statements. The anxiety for growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the market-based models are impatient and look for high returns – and then exit! There is a new intensity in the discussion on microfinance – about multiple lending, interest rates and on whether a bubble is being built around lending to the poor. There is a heated debate about the interest rates of microfinance institutions (MFIs) and whether they could be termed usurious. There has also been a boardroom fracas at SKS Microfinance – an event unrelated to the larger one about the delicate relationship between MFIs and their clients, but it is nevertheless hogging equal headline space in the press. The commercial section of the industry has reacted with the industry association – the Microfinance Institutions Network (MFIN) – coming out with a code of conduct. The State has indicated its displeasure about the level of interest rates and it has sent an advisory to the commercial banks. The Government of Andhra Pradesh, facing a lot of flak from the local press and the opposition parties, has promulgated an ordinance in order to “rein in” MFIs. There is indeed a sense of déjà vu to the entire episode – of a crisis following heady success. The success had culminated in the oversubscription of the SKS Microfinance initial public offering, allotment of shares at the upper end of the indicative price band, listing of the scrip at a premium, and its continuous rise thereafter. As this was sinking into the minds of the players in the microfinance market – and with the next rung of institutions ready to harvest the gold rush – the same SKS Microfinance was in the news for all the wrong reasons. Three Models This article looks at the growth in microfinance, keeping the current developments in perspective. But before looking at the current episode, it is important to have a perspective on how the microfinance space is organised and who the different of players in the market are. At this point of time there are three significant interventions in the provision of universal access to financial services. (1) The people’s movement which has existed outside of the government schemes, banks and other interventions by entrepreneurs. This is led by non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that have remained true to the community-based model and have emerged by organising people to sort out their financial mismatches without the intervention of the external world, and if there is an intervention it is a conscious choice collectively exercised by the people. (2) The intervention by the government pre-existed the people’s movement and was expressed in the form of the self-help groups (SHGs). This has usually been supply-driven, addressing the institutional and physical infrastructure needs and offering standardised supply-side solutions or “schemes”. In Andhra Pradesh the State has almost usurped the community model through the Indira Kranti Patham scheme (earlier known as Velugu). Clearly the role of the government in Andhra Pradesh has moved beyond being an independent observer. In this case the State is in a peculiar position of being a player as well as an arbiter of microfinance practices. (3) The market forces, which look at the poor as a market, have found a mechanism to deliver credit through an efficient delivery model. This approach is more than a decade old and has made rapid growth. This growth has encouraged us to look at the business through a different lens. Each of these interventions has a different approach and uses a different methodology to reach out to the poor. These methodologies have an important bearing on the process and packaging of financial services. The SHG model was promoted as an alternative to the available options of financial intermediation. It was at one level rooted in the community and at another level was integrated with the larger banking system. The dealings were on the basis of mutuality, thus providing the power of a collective. The approach, by definition, was a slow one because there had to be a good understanding on how a collective based on the principles of mutuality worked. It required patience, tolerance and an appreciation of the constraints that the fellow SHG members faced. It made members think about their financial services needs of their households, and also those of their neighbours who were members of the collective. This helped the members think responsibly because they were dealing with their own money or the money of the members of the collective. This methodology ensured that people were together to narrate a growth story, a story of their confidence and how they were taking charge of their own lives. This movement is very time-consuming. The collective has to go through the many phases of forming, storming, norming and performing. Even if the process is slow, the edifice will be strong and lasting. This edifice can continue to serve the poor and the marginalised on an auto-pilot basis once it stabilises. Once this happens, it shows that the poor can not only take control of their resources, but as these resources grow they can hire professional help to manage their resources. This transformation does not happen overnight, but through a long process of community intervention. Unfortunately, there is impatience, and then there is the State. If the groups succeed, there is an urge to replicate the model quickly across the country. The success of community-centred microfinance has attracted the government. The State deals with large numbers and its anxiety to deliver development at a pace that can do justice to the incumbent combination is understandable. The State learnt quickly from the SHG movement and decided to adopt it as one of its “schemes”. The bank linkage programme has been going on for years, and each year the government increases the targets to the banks for linkage and ports several other welfare schemes on to the groups. Market for Inclusion The last type of player in the inclusion market is a product of market forces. In the last decade there have been several people who for years worked in the development sector with communities and became impatient for growth. They embraced a market-based model of inclusive finance. The idea was that if we are able to make this activity of inclusive finance inherently profitable, then more and more people (who work for profits) will see merit in operating in this market. And with a good number of players, the market will not only expand, but because of competition the poor customers would eventually get a good deal. Unfortunately there have been numerous instances where our belief in the market has been belied and microfinance adds to the scepticism about the school that believes only in markets. During the initial phases of the intervention by the market model of mFIs, most of us looked at the growth of these organisations with a sense of awe. These organisations brought efficiency to their operations. But gains in efficiency are usually a function of standardisation. Standardisation worked at two levels: (a) The organisations themselves offered standardised products, that allowed them to reduce operating costs. (b) The individual identity of each organisation and what it stood for vanished. In the field one could therefore see little difference between one MFI and the other.Rhyne (2001) writing about MFIs in Bolivia has said that the institutions tend to converge operationally to the dominant microfinance paradigm. The paradigm of commercial microfinance is that of minimalism. That credit should be provided efficiently and quickly and a sharpening of financial viability have influenced institutions operating in this space. Bolivian Experience In microfinance itself, there were significant lessons to be learnt from Bolivia. For instance, Rhyne indicates that the number of institutions that had a subsidy drastically fell in about four years, and each of these institutions lost its core identity. FIE, an MFI known for technical assistance to a single community-based enterprise, Fades, which used to focus on lending for community infrastructure projects, and ProMujer, which specialised in empowerment training; all dropped most of the operational practices that differentiated them from the dominant paradigm. This “convergence” is happening in India as well. The minimalist model disburses credit in as efficient a manner as selling soaps and shampoos. It has its merits. For instance, in a largely agrarian society where large cash inflows take place only during the harvest season and the local economy operates on peaking of financial activity in this season, forcing a weekly repayment is by definition defying the logic of agrarian cash flows. However, by forcing this weekly discipline these institutions have possibly expanded the market for credit – persuading people to think about activities that give a weekly cash flow that can service their loan. This could thereby have made more cash move through the hands of people and reduced their vulnerability. However, the downside of a standardised model is that unless the cultural and economic nuances of each location are understood, there could be cracks. A standardised model closes innovation, reduces responsiveness and prevents customisation and once it reaches stability it expects to grow at a scorching pace. When something – particularly in financial services – grows at an unnatural pace, it is going to build into a bubble sooner or later. Such a process in the market-based microfinance sector may be happening now. The hope that the demonstration of one market-based experiment will attract more players has come true. Many more organisations have entered the market and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they have put the “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started chasing targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not seen as human beings having an individual identity, characteristic and need. Instead they are seen as data points that add up to their profit statements. This anxiety for growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the marketbased models are impatient and look for returns (and then exit!). The evidence from Bolivia is available before us. Microfinance in that country went through a phase of intense competition, leading to over-indebtedness and even the collapse of a few institutions. A reading of the microfinance movement of Bolivia in the 1990s looks like a contemporary Indian commentary. All the elements – client poaching, competition, reckless lending, over-indebtedness of the client – that eventually caused cracks in the efficient credit delivery mechanisms were present in Bolivia. Effects of Rapid Growth One of the visible indicators of the standardised model is its religious belief in zero tolerance of default. The organisations following the market model have possibly seen too much of indiscipline in the delivery of credit to the poor and have realised that this is one variable that has to be controlled at all cost. The story of organisations having a near 100% recovery rate for years is a fable difficult to believe, given that no household or economy can be insular to shocks all the time. Yes, the commercial models have been able to control one cause of default – intent. But it is well known that default also happens when the ability to repay is impaired. The new generation of MFIs has possibly not learnt to deal with this aspect. For a long time, while the MFIs were growing at an unnatural pace through geographic diversification, the borrowers were probably growing at a normal pace. With competition setting in, more and more MFIs concentrated on the same geographies. With the client getting multiple choices and the anxiety of the client to get as much of finance as possible from multiple institutions and this coupled with the overzealous suppliers of credit meant that the client herself was trying to grow at an unnatural pace, or that the client had begun to resort to adverse usage of credit. Unfortunately the standardised models do not have the patience to engage with the client. It is one thing to justify the high cost of credit at lower levels, but we also have to realise that at higher levels of indebtedness, interest rates become onerous from the point of view of the poor households. Servicing five MFI loans of Rs 10,000 each at 28% is not the same as servicing one such loan. And since the MFIs have not provided themselves with a mechanism of coping with default, the pressure on the borrower turns out to be intense. And this pressure could potentially lead to suicides. We do not know whether the current spate of suicides in Andhra Pradesh is a result of the MFI loans and the intense repayment pressure on the clients. These are claims made by the state government. Vikram Akula, the chairman of SKS Microfinance acknowledged that 17 of the 30 suicide cases were related to borrowers of SKS (Indian Express, 15 October 2010). However he is not helping the cause of the MFIs by stating that “the deceased borrowers were not defaulters of SKS and they would have been driven to suicides by other factors such as pressure for repayment of dues by other MFIs that lent money to the same borrowers” (Mint, 15 October 2010). The collective response of the microfinance institutions has also been found wanting. All that they have offered is a code of conduct, which is observed in violation! A meta level credit bureau makes a mockery of what is clearly acknowledged on the field. You do not need a database of clients and loans. The clients themselves are openly talking of multiple borrowings. Governance Issues Unfortunately, the celebration of the market endorsement of this business at the “bottom of the pyramid” could not have been more ill-timed. At the ground level, the stress was showing. Clients (for whatever reasons) were committing suicides. At the institutional level, it appeared that the boardroom battles were all about stock options, cashing in, cashing out and severance packages, when each of the boards should have been discussing whether their business model was showing cracks. Instead of being introspective, the response of the MFIs has been stubborn and defensive. State Response The response of the State has also not been in the desirable direction. Obviously, all the action is centred around Andhra Pradesh which has the highest concentration of MFIs and the largest exposure through the SHG-Bank linkage model. The government has responded with a heavy hand by passing an ordinance that has shifted the discourse from the basic problem to a legal frame. This almost appears like the government taking revenge on the competition with its monopolistic regulatory power. While there are nuances in whether the Government of Andhra Pradesh has the ability and the inclination to digest the administrative implications of the ordinance, it has once again shown its inability to target the errant microfinance institutions, and has instead come down heavily on the entire market. Given that the State itself is a dominant player in this market, this heavy-handedness creates an undesirable competitive barrier to an alternative model of credit delivery. Instead of harping on caps on interest rates and threatening to remove microfinance from the priority sector list, it is necessary for the State/Reserve Bank of India to look at specific instances and pull up the delinquent organisations. The RBI has set up a committee to look into the issues pertaining to MFIs and has asked the committee to submit a report within three months. But what is not clear is why the RBI is not carrying out a routine inspection of the portfolio of some MFIs that are under its purview in order to understand the issues of ghost clients and multiple borrowings and take action to discipline the erring organisations. Some of these organisations have serious governance issues that are not being investigated. The institutional representatives on the boards of these MFIs have not exercised their independence. The promoters have gotten away with significant instances of skimming and there seems to be no dissent voiced on the greedy executive compensations and short-sighted behaviour of the management of the top MFIs. So on the one hand, while the larger directional of the movement of the State/RBI in terms of financial inclusion seems to be good – directing payments through banks, calling for financial inclusion plans, opening up branch licencing, removing the cap on end use interest rates and so on – its response to the rapid growth of microfinance has been somewhat alarmist. Hopefully the State and the RBI would do what is well within their mandate in specific cases. This would be a superior approach compared to the policy-level clampdown that they have been talking about. From asit1917 at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 15:56:21 2010 From: asit1917 at gmail.com (asit das) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 15:56:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/2/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Demand to uphold free speech and expression (Yousuf) > 2. Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare (Shashidhar) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: Yousuf > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Demand to uphold free speech and expression > Message-ID: <859916.20954.qm at web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > DEMAND TO UPHOLD FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION > PUBLIC STATEMENT > > We condemn the demand of the BJP to “take the strongest possible action” > against Arundhati Roy for her “seditious comments” at the seminar, “Azadi: > The only way” held in New Delhi, October 21, 2010. There is recorded > evidence to prove that the views expressed by her are not new and have also > been made by innumerable others before and after her. If Arundhati Roy or > Syed Ali Shah Geelani (or any other speaker from that seminar) is to be > arrested for what they have said, then by the same logic a number of us > would have to be imprisoned not to mention the entire population of Kashmir. > > The concept of `sedition’ is archaic and has no place in a modern democratic > imagination. Perhaps for this reason the Drafting Committee of the Indian > Constitution did not include “sedition” among the “reasonable restrictions” > to Article 19(1) (a). In 1962, the Supreme Court (Kedar Nath Singh vs. the > State of Bihar) read down Section 124A IPC to argue that only a call to > violence or armed rebellion qualified to be considered as `sedition’. The > same Judgement reiterated the importance of not allowing the provision to > interfere with the Right to Free Speech and Expression. As the present > controversy proves, the Supreme Court’s worst fears have been confirmed. The > Bajrang Dal’s threat that they will hound Arundhati Roy like M.F Hussain > provides further confirmation that `sedition’ will now be the new pretext > for censorship. When the British charged Gandhi with sedition, he famously > said, “Sedition in law is a deliberate crime but it > appears to me to be the highest duty of a citizen.” Expressing dissent > about thenation-state and re-imagining its future is certainly the right of > every citizen if not the “highest duty”. > > We would like to point out that the disruption of the meeting and the > allegations of `sedition’ is part of a well orchestrated campaign. The right > wing elements who disrupted the Azadi meeting were working in tandem with > certain media channels who flouted all norms of professional journalism to > create hysteria. In what appears to be an instance of `paid news’, a certain > national news channel started a one-sided campaign against “splittists” and > the “sedition industry” within hours of the meeting being held. The `report’ > only focused on two speakers and their supposed “seditious” utterances. > > It is understandable that the BJP, in an attempt to deflect attention from > the Ajmer Blast case, should indulge in hyper-jingoism but it is most > unfortunate that the UPA, while deciding not to press charges of sedition > against the speakers, did not assert their right to free speech and > expression. Their silence on this matter has only emboldened groups like the > Bajrang Dal who now want to take matters into their own hands. > This is perhaps expected from a government that has sought to suppress all > dissent in the valley through brute force. Between June and October 2010, > 111 people have been killed by security forces and this includes young boys > who were not even participating in the protests. Countless have been maimed > and injured by bullet injuries while many have been blinded by the catapults > with marble shots used by the CRPF. For over two decades now, the armed and > security forces have been committing extra-judicial killings, torture, > disappearances and rape with impunity. Draconian legislations like the Armed > Forces (Special Powers) Act, the Jammu and &Kashmir Public Safety Act and > the Disturbed Areas Act continue to facilitate human rights abuses in the > valley. The hysterical cry to enforce the rule of law in the case of the > Azadi seminar contrasts with the long silence about the widespread and > systematic human rights violations in Kashmir. By allowing the speakers of > the Azadi seminar to be censored, the government hopes to maintain its > silence on Kashmir. > > We therefore demand that the government take full cognizance of the > continuing violation of human rights in the valley, make the security forces > fully accountable so that the guilty can be prosecuted and punished. We > demand that the democratic right to free speech and expression is upheld and > every citizen in this country, including the speakers of the Azadi seminar, > is given full protection from any attempt to impose legal or extra-legal > censorship. > > Signatories: > > Vrinda Grover Lawyer, Delhi > Shohini Ghosh Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi > Nivedita Menon Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi > Amar Kanwar Filmmaker & Artist, Delhi > Ranjani Mazumdar Associate Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. > Aditya Nigam Fellow, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies > Dayanita Singh Photographer, Delhi > Urvashi Butalia Writer and Publisher, Delhi > Lawrence Liang Alternative Law Forum, Bangalore > Sabeena Gadihoke Associate Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi > Saba Dewan Independent Filmmaker > Aparna Sen Filmmaker and Actress, Kolkata > Kalyan Ray Author and Professor, Morris College, USA. > Joya Chatterji Historian, Trinity College, University of Cambridge, UK. > Lakshmi Subramaniam Professor, Centre for Social Sciences, Kolkata > Kajri Jain Asst. Professor, University of Toronto, Toronto. > Kumkum Roy Historian, Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Delhi > Kamala Vishweshwaran Professor of Anthropology, University of Texas, Austin > Shikha Jhingan Asst. Professor, Lady Shri Ram College, Delhi University, > Delhi. > Anjali Monteiro Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. > Kalyani Menon-Sen Researcher & Independent Activist, Gurgaon > Uma Chakravarty Historian (Retired Professor, Delhi University) Delhi > KP Jayshankar Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. > Pamela Philipose Journalist & Director. Womens Feature Service > Harsh Mandar Writer and Activist > Gauhar Raza Filmmaker & Poet, Delhi > Anuradha Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi > Shabnam Hashmi Social Activist, Anhad > Neeraj Malik Associate Professor, Indraprastha College, Delhi University > Javed Malick Retired Professor, Delhi University > Madhu Bhaduri Former, IFS Officer > Anuradha Bhasin Executive Editor, Kashmir Times > Jyotsna Kapur Assoc. Professor, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. > Dunu Roy Environmentalist, Hazard Centre, Delhi > Kamal Mitra Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi > Ujjwal Kumar Singh Professor, Delhi University, Delhi. > Mahua Sarkar Assoc. Professor, Binghampton University, SUNY > Arvind Narrain Lawyer, Alternative Law Forum > Rebecca M. John Lawyer, Delhi > Amita Baviskar Associate Professor, Institute of Economic Growth > Sarada Balagopalan Associate Fellow, CSDS > Kaushik Ghosh Assistant Professor, University of Texas, Austin > > (Issued in November 2010) > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:57:17 +0530 > From: "Shashidhar" > To: "sarai-list" > Subject: [Reader-list] Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a > Nightmare > Message-ID: <008601cb7a70$249fa840$6ddef8c0$@butterfliesindia.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Good write up on the MFI nightmare in Andhra > > > > http://beta.epw.in/newsItem/comment/188904/ > > > > Shashi > > Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare > M S Sriram > It was inevitable that the commercial model of microfinance in India, with > its minimalist and standardised model of lending, would grow into a bubble > and run into trouble. > Many microfinance commercial organisations have entered the market in search > of profits and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they have > put the “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started > chasing targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not seen > as human beings having individual identities and needs. Instead they are > seen as data points that add up in their profit statements. The anxiety for > growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the market-based models > are impatient and look for high returns – and then exit! > There is a new intensity in the discussion on microfinance – about multiple > lending, interest rates and on whether a bubble is being built around > lending to the poor. There is a heated debate about the interest rates of > microfinance institutions (MFIs) and whether they could be termed usurious. > There has also been a boardroom fracas at SKS Microfinance – an event > unrelated to the larger one about the delicate relationship between MFIs and > their clients, but it is nevertheless hogging equal headline space in the > press. The commercial section of the industry has reacted with the industry > association – the Microfinance Institutions Network (MFIN) – coming out with > a code of conduct. The State has indicated its displeasure about the level > of interest rates and it has sent an advisory to the commercial banks. The > Government of Andhra Pradesh, facing a lot of flak from the local press and > the opposition parties, has promulgated an ordinance in order to “rein in” > MFIs. > There is indeed a sense of déjà vu to the entire episode – of a crisis > following heady success. The success had culminated in the oversubscription > of the SKS Microfinance initial public offering, allotment of shares at the > upper end of the indicative price band, listing of the scrip at a premium, > and its continuous rise thereafter. As this was sinking into the minds of > the players in the microfinance market – and with the next rung of > institutions ready to harvest the gold rush – the same SKS Microfinance was > in the news for all the wrong reasons. > Three Models > This article looks at the growth in microfinance, keeping the current > developments in perspective. But before looking at the current episode, it > is important to have a perspective on how the microfinance space is > organised and who the different of players in the market are. At this point > of time there are three significant interventions in the provision of > universal access to financial services. > (1) The people’s movement which has existed outside of the government > schemes, banks and other interventions by entrepreneurs. This is led by > non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that have remained true to the > community-based model and have emerged by organising people to sort out > their financial mismatches without the intervention of the external world, > and if there is an intervention it is a conscious choice collectively > exercised by the people. > (2) The intervention by the government pre-existed the people’s movement and > was expressed in the form of the self-help groups (SHGs). This has usually > been supply-driven, addressing the institutional and physical infrastructure > needs and offering standardised supply-side solutions or “schemes”. In > Andhra Pradesh the State has almost usurped the community model through the > Indira Kranti Patham scheme (earlier known as Velugu). Clearly the role of > the government in Andhra Pradesh has moved beyond being an independent > observer. In this case the State is in a peculiar position of being a player > as well as an arbiter of microfinance practices. > (3) The market forces, which look at the poor as a market, have found a > mechanism to deliver credit through an efficient delivery model. This > approach is more than a decade old and has made rapid growth. This growth > has encouraged us to look at the business through a different lens. > Each of these interventions has a different approach and uses a different > methodology to reach out to the poor. These methodologies have an important > bearing on the process and packaging of financial services. The SHG model > was promoted as an alternative to the available options of financial > intermediation. It was at one level rooted in the community and at another > level was integrated with the larger banking system. The dealings were on > the basis of mutuality, thus providing the power of a collective. The > approach, by definition, was a slow one because there had to be a good > understanding on how a collective based on the principles of mutuality > worked. It required patience, tolerance and an appreciation of the > constraints that the fellow SHG members faced. It made members think about > their financial services needs of their households, and also those of their > neighbours who were members of the collective. This helped the members think > responsibly because they were dealing with their own money or the money of > the members of the collective. This methodology ensured that people were > together to narrate a growth story, a story of their confidence and how they > were taking charge of their own lives. > This movement is very time-consuming. The collective has to go through the > many phases of forming, storming, norming and performing. Even if the > process is slow, the edifice will be strong and lasting. This edifice can > continue to serve the poor and the marginalised on an auto-pilot basis once > it stabilises. Once this happens, it shows that the poor can not only take > control of their resources, but as these resources grow they can hire > professional help to manage their resources. This transformation does not > happen overnight, but through a long process of community intervention. > Unfortunately, there is impatience, and then there is the State. If the > groups succeed, there is an urge to replicate the model quickly across the > country. The success of community-centred microfinance has attracted the > government. The State deals with large numbers and its anxiety to deliver > development at a pace that can do justice to the incumbent combination is > understandable. The State learnt quickly from the SHG movement and decided > to adopt it as one of its “schemes”. The bank linkage programme has been > going on for years, and each year the government increases the targets to > the banks for linkage and ports several other welfare schemes on to the > groups. > Market for Inclusion > The last type of player in the inclusion market is a product of market > forces. In the last decade there have been several people who for years > worked in the development sector with communities and became impatient for > growth. They embraced a market-based model of inclusive finance. The idea > was that if we are able to make this activity of inclusive finance > inherently profitable, then more and more people (who work for profits) will > see merit in operating in this market. And with a good number of players, > the market will not only expand, but because of competition the poor > customers would eventually get a good deal. > Unfortunately there have been numerous instances where our belief in the > market has been belied and microfinance adds to the scepticism about the > school that believes only in markets. During the initial phases of the > intervention by the market model of mFIs, most of us looked at the growth of > these organisations with a sense of awe. These organisations brought > efficiency to their operations. But gains in efficiency are usually a > function of standardisation. Standardisation worked at two levels: (a) The > organisations themselves offered standardised products, that allowed them to > reduce operating costs. (b) The individual identity of each organisation and > what it stood for vanished. In the field one could therefore see little > difference between one MFI and the other.Rhyne (2001) writing about MFIs in > Bolivia has said that the institutions tend to converge operationally to the > dominant microfinance paradigm. The paradigm of commercial microfinance is > that of minimalism. That credit should be provided efficiently and quickly > and a sharpening of financial viability have influenced institutions > operating in this space. > Bolivian Experience > In microfinance itself, there were significant lessons to be learnt from > Bolivia. For instance, Rhyne indicates that the number of institutions that > had a subsidy drastically fell in about four years, and each of these > institutions lost its core identity. FIE, an MFI known for technical > assistance to a single community-based enterprise, Fades, which used to > focus on lending for community infrastructure projects, and ProMujer, which > specialised in empowerment training; all dropped most of the operational > practices that differentiated them from the dominant paradigm. > This “convergence” is happening in India as well. The minimalist model > disburses credit in as efficient a manner as selling soaps and shampoos. It > has its merits. For instance, in a largely agrarian society where large cash > inflows take place only during the harvest season and the local economy > operates on peaking of financial activity in this season, forcing a weekly > repayment is by definition defying the logic of agrarian cash flows. > However, by forcing this weekly discipline these institutions have possibly > expanded the market for credit – persuading people to think about activities > that give a weekly cash flow that can service their loan. This could thereby > have made more cash move through the hands of people and reduced their > vulnerability. > However, the downside of a standardised model is that unless the cultural > and economic nuances of each location are understood, there could be cracks. > A standardised model closes innovation, reduces responsiveness and prevents > customisation and once it reaches stability it expects to grow at a > scorching pace. When something – particularly in financial services – grows > at an unnatural pace, it is going to build into a bubble sooner or later. > Such a process in the market-based microfinance sector may be happening now. > > The hope that the demonstration of one market-based experiment will attract > more players has come true. Many more organisations have entered the market > and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they have put the > “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started chasing > targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not seen as human > beings having an individual identity, characteristic and need. Instead they > are seen as data points that add up to their profit statements. This anxiety > for growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the marketbased > models are impatient and look for returns (and then exit!). The evidence > from Bolivia is available before us. Microfinance in that country went > through a phase of intense competition, leading to over-indebtedness and > even the collapse of a few institutions. A reading of the microfinance > movement of Bolivia in the 1990s looks like a contemporary Indian > commentary. All the elements – client poaching, competition, reckless > lending, over-indebtedness of the client – that eventually caused cracks in > the efficient credit delivery mechanisms were present in Bolivia. > Effects of Rapid Growth > One of the visible indicators of the standardised model is its religious > belief in zero tolerance of default. The organisations following the market > model have possibly seen too much of indiscipline in the delivery of credit > to the poor and have realised that this is one variable that has to be > controlled at all cost. The story of organisations having a near 100% > recovery rate for years is a fable difficult to believe, given that no > household or economy can be insular to shocks all the time. Yes, the > commercial models have been able to control one cause of default – intent. > But it is well known that default also happens when the ability to repay is > impaired. The new generation of MFIs has possibly not learnt to deal with > this aspect. For a long time, while the MFIs were growing at an unnatural > pace through geographic diversification, the borrowers were probably growing > at a normal pace. With competition setting in, more and more MFIs > concentrated on the same geographies. > With the client getting multiple choices and the anxiety of the client to > get as much of finance as possible from multiple institutions and this > coupled with the overzealous suppliers of credit meant that the client > herself was trying to grow at an unnatural pace, or that the client had > begun to resort to adverse usage of credit. Unfortunately the standardised > models do not have the patience to engage with the client. It is one thing > to justify the high cost of credit at lower levels, but we also have to > realise that at higher levels of indebtedness, interest rates become onerous > from the point of view of the poor households. > Servicing five MFI loans of Rs 10,000 each at 28% is not the same as > servicing one such loan. And since the MFIs have not provided themselves > with a mechanism of coping with default, the pressure on the borrower turns > out to be intense. And this pressure could potentially lead to suicides. We > do not know whether the current spate of suicides in Andhra Pradesh is a > result of the MFI loans and the intense repayment pressure on the clients. > These are claims made by the state government. Vikram Akula, the chairman of > SKS Microfinance acknowledged that 17 of the 30 suicide cases were related > to borrowers of SKS (Indian Express, 15 October 2010). > However he is not helping the cause of the MFIs by stating that “the > deceased borrowers were not defaulters of SKS and they would have been > driven to suicides by other factors such as pressure for repayment of dues > by other MFIs that lent money to the same borrowers” (Mint, 15 October > 2010). The collective response of the microfinance institutions has also > been found wanting. All that they have offered is a code of conduct, which > is observed in violation! A meta level credit bureau makes a mockery of what > is clearly acknowledged on the field. You do not need a database of clients > and loans. The clients themselves are openly talking of multiple borrowings. > > Governance Issues > Unfortunately, the celebration of the market endorsement of this business at > the “bottom of the pyramid” could not have been more ill-timed. At the > ground level, the stress was showing. Clients (for whatever reasons) were > committing suicides. At the institutional level, it appeared that the > boardroom battles were all about stock options, cashing in, cashing out and > severance packages, when each of the boards should have been discussing > whether their business model was showing cracks. Instead of being > introspective, the response of the MFIs has been stubborn and defensive. > State Response > The response of the State has also not been in the desirable direction. > Obviously, all the action is centred around Andhra Pradesh which has the > highest concentration of MFIs and the largest exposure through the SHG-Bank > linkage model. The government has responded with a heavy hand by passing an > ordinance that has shifted the discourse from the basic problem to a legal > frame. This almost appears like the government taking revenge on the > competition with its monopolistic regulatory power. While there are nuances > in whether the Government of Andhra Pradesh has the ability and the > inclination to digest the administrative implications of the ordinance, it > has once again shown its inability to target the errant microfinance > institutions, and has instead come down heavily on the entire market. Given > that the State itself is a dominant player in this market, this > heavy-handedness creates an undesirable competitive barrier to an > alternative model of credit delivery. Instead of harping on caps on interest > rates and threatening to remove microfinance from the priority sector list, > it is necessary for the State/Reserve Bank of India to look at specific > instances and pull up the delinquent organisations. The RBI has set up a > committee to look into the issues pertaining to MFIs and has asked the > committee to submit a report within three months. > But what is not clear is why the RBI is not carrying out a routine > inspection of the portfolio of some MFIs that are under its purview in order > to understand the issues of ghost clients and multiple borrowings and take > action to discipline the erring organisations. Some of these organisations > have serious governance issues that are not being investigated. The > institutional representatives on the boards of these MFIs have not exercised > their independence. The promoters have gotten away with significant > instances of skimming and there seems to be no dissent voiced on the greedy > executive compensations and short-sighted behaviour of the management of the > top MFIs. > So on the one hand, while the larger directional of the movement of the > State/RBI in terms of financial inclusion seems to be good – directing > payments through banks, calling for financial inclusion plans, opening up > branch licencing, removing the cap on end use interest rates and so on – its > response to the rapid growth of microfinance has been somewhat alarmist. > Hopefully the State and the RBI would do what is well within their mandate > in specific cases. This would be a superior approach compared to the > policy-level clampdown that they have been talking about. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 13 > ******************************************* > From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 16:05:49 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:05:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, I also want to sign the "DEMAND TO UPHOLD FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION PUBLIC STATEMENT"! How can it be done? Regards Rajkamal On 11/2/10, asit das wrote: > On 11/2/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net > wrote: >> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to >> reader-list at sarai.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> reader-list-owner at sarai.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Demand to uphold free speech and expression (Yousuf) >> 2. Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare (Shashidhar) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Yousuf >> To: sarai list >> Subject: [Reader-list] Demand to uphold free speech and expression >> Message-ID: <859916.20954.qm at web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> DEMAND TO UPHOLD FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION >> PUBLIC STATEMENT >> >> We condemn the demand of the BJP to “take the strongest possible action” >> against Arundhati Roy for her “seditious comments” at the seminar, “Azadi: >> The only way” held in New Delhi, October 21, 2010. There is recorded >> evidence to prove that the views expressed by her are not new and have >> also >> been made by innumerable others before and after her. If Arundhati Roy or >> Syed Ali Shah Geelani (or any other speaker from that seminar) is to be >> arrested for what they have said, then by the same logic a number of us >> would have to be imprisoned not to mention the entire population of >> Kashmir. >> >> The concept of `sedition’ is archaic and has no place in a modern >> democratic >> imagination. Perhaps for this reason the Drafting Committee of the Indian >> Constitution did not include “sedition” among the “reasonable >> restrictions” >> to Article 19(1) (a). In 1962, the Supreme Court (Kedar Nath Singh vs. the >> State of Bihar) read down Section 124A IPC to argue that only a call to >> violence or armed rebellion qualified to be considered as `sedition’. The >> same Judgement reiterated the importance of not allowing the provision to >> interfere with the Right to Free Speech and Expression. As the present >> controversy proves, the Supreme Court’s worst fears have been confirmed. >> The >> Bajrang Dal’s threat that they will hound Arundhati Roy like M.F Hussain >> provides further confirmation that `sedition’ will now be the new pretext >> for censorship. When the British charged Gandhi with sedition, he famously >> said, “Sedition in law is a deliberate crime but it >> appears to me to be the highest duty of a citizen.” Expressing dissent >> about thenation-state and re-imagining its future is certainly the right >> of >> every citizen if not the “highest duty”. >> >> We would like to point out that the disruption of the meeting and the >> allegations of `sedition’ is part of a well orchestrated campaign. The >> right >> wing elements who disrupted the Azadi meeting were working in tandem with >> certain media channels who flouted all norms of professional journalism to >> create hysteria. In what appears to be an instance of `paid news’, a >> certain >> national news channel started a one-sided campaign against “splittists” >> and >> the “sedition industry” within hours of the meeting being held. The >> `report’ >> only focused on two speakers and their supposed “seditious” utterances. >> >> It is understandable that the BJP, in an attempt to deflect attention from >> the Ajmer Blast case, should indulge in hyper-jingoism but it is most >> unfortunate that the UPA, while deciding not to press charges of sedition >> against the speakers, did not assert their right to free speech and >> expression. Their silence on this matter has only emboldened groups like >> the >> Bajrang Dal who now want to take matters into their own hands. >> This is perhaps expected from a government that has sought to suppress all >> dissent in the valley through brute force. Between June and October 2010, >> 111 people have been killed by security forces and this includes young >> boys >> who were not even participating in the protests. Countless have been >> maimed >> and injured by bullet injuries while many have been blinded by the >> catapults >> with marble shots used by the CRPF. For over two decades now, the armed >> and >> security forces have been committing extra-judicial killings, torture, >> disappearances and rape with impunity. Draconian legislations like the >> Armed >> Forces (Special Powers) Act, the Jammu and &Kashmir Public Safety Act and >> the Disturbed Areas Act continue to facilitate human rights abuses in the >> valley. The hysterical cry to enforce the rule of law in the case of the >> Azadi seminar contrasts with the long silence about the widespread and >> systematic human rights violations in Kashmir. By allowing the speakers of >> the Azadi seminar to be censored, the government hopes to maintain its >> silence on Kashmir. >> >> We therefore demand that the government take full cognizance of the >> continuing violation of human rights in the valley, make the security >> forces >> fully accountable so that the guilty can be prosecuted and punished. We >> demand that the democratic right to free speech and expression is upheld >> and >> every citizen in this country, including the speakers of the Azadi >> seminar, >> is given full protection from any attempt to impose legal or extra-legal >> censorship. >> >> Signatories: >> >> Vrinda Grover Lawyer, Delhi >> Shohini Ghosh Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi >> Nivedita Menon Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi >> Amar Kanwar Filmmaker & Artist, Delhi >> Ranjani Mazumdar Associate Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. >> Aditya Nigam Fellow, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies >> Dayanita Singh Photographer, Delhi >> Urvashi Butalia Writer and Publisher, Delhi >> Lawrence Liang Alternative Law Forum, Bangalore >> Sabeena Gadihoke Associate Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi >> Saba Dewan Independent Filmmaker >> Aparna Sen Filmmaker and Actress, Kolkata >> Kalyan Ray Author and Professor, Morris College, USA. >> Joya Chatterji Historian, Trinity College, University of Cambridge, UK. >> Lakshmi Subramaniam Professor, Centre for Social Sciences, Kolkata >> Kajri Jain Asst. Professor, University of Toronto, Toronto. >> Kumkum Roy Historian, Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Delhi >> Kamala Vishweshwaran Professor of Anthropology, University of Texas, >> Austin >> Shikha Jhingan Asst. Professor, Lady Shri Ram College, Delhi University, >> Delhi. >> Anjali Monteiro Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. >> Kalyani Menon-Sen Researcher & Independent Activist, Gurgaon >> Uma Chakravarty Historian (Retired Professor, Delhi University) Delhi >> KP Jayshankar Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. >> Pamela Philipose Journalist & Director. Womens Feature Service >> Harsh Mandar Writer and Activist >> Gauhar Raza Filmmaker & Poet, Delhi >> Anuradha Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi >> Shabnam Hashmi Social Activist, Anhad >> Neeraj Malik Associate Professor, Indraprastha College, Delhi University >> Javed Malick Retired Professor, Delhi University >> Madhu Bhaduri Former, IFS Officer >> Anuradha Bhasin Executive Editor, Kashmir Times >> Jyotsna Kapur Assoc. Professor, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. >> Dunu Roy Environmentalist, Hazard Centre, Delhi >> Kamal Mitra Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi >> Ujjwal Kumar Singh Professor, Delhi University, Delhi. >> Mahua Sarkar Assoc. Professor, Binghampton University, SUNY >> Arvind Narrain Lawyer, Alternative Law Forum >> Rebecca M. John Lawyer, Delhi >> Amita Baviskar Associate Professor, Institute of Economic Growth >> Sarada Balagopalan Associate Fellow, CSDS >> Kaushik Ghosh Assistant Professor, University of Texas, Austin >> >> (Issued in November 2010) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:57:17 +0530 >> From: "Shashidhar" >> To: "sarai-list" >> Subject: [Reader-list] Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a >> Nightmare >> Message-ID: <008601cb7a70$249fa840$6ddef8c0$@butterfliesindia.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Good write up on the MFI nightmare in Andhra >> >> >> >> http://beta.epw.in/newsItem/comment/188904/ >> >> >> >> Shashi >> >> Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare >> M S Sriram >> It was inevitable that the commercial model of microfinance in India, with >> its minimalist and standardised model of lending, would grow into a bubble >> and run into trouble. >> Many microfinance commercial organisations have entered the market in >> search >> of profits and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they have >> put the “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started >> chasing targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not seen >> as human beings having individual identities and needs. Instead they are >> seen as data points that add up in their profit statements. The anxiety >> for >> growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the market-based >> models >> are impatient and look for high returns – and then exit! >> There is a new intensity in the discussion on microfinance – about >> multiple >> lending, interest rates and on whether a bubble is being built around >> lending to the poor. There is a heated debate about the interest rates of >> microfinance institutions (MFIs) and whether they could be termed >> usurious. >> There has also been a boardroom fracas at SKS Microfinance – an event >> unrelated to the larger one about the delicate relationship between MFIs >> and >> their clients, but it is nevertheless hogging equal headline space in the >> press. The commercial section of the industry has reacted with the >> industry >> association – the Microfinance Institutions Network (MFIN) – coming out >> with >> a code of conduct. The State has indicated its displeasure about the level >> of interest rates and it has sent an advisory to the commercial banks. The >> Government of Andhra Pradesh, facing a lot of flak from the local press >> and >> the opposition parties, has promulgated an ordinance in order to “rein in” >> MFIs. >> There is indeed a sense of déjà vu to the entire episode – of a crisis >> following heady success. The success had culminated in the >> oversubscription >> of the SKS Microfinance initial public offering, allotment of shares at >> the >> upper end of the indicative price band, listing of the scrip at a premium, >> and its continuous rise thereafter. As this was sinking into the minds of >> the players in the microfinance market – and with the next rung of >> institutions ready to harvest the gold rush – the same SKS Microfinance >> was >> in the news for all the wrong reasons. >> Three Models >> This article looks at the growth in microfinance, keeping the current >> developments in perspective. But before looking at the current episode, it >> is important to have a perspective on how the microfinance space is >> organised and who the different of players in the market are. At this >> point >> of time there are three significant interventions in the provision of >> universal access to financial services. >> (1) The people’s movement which has existed outside of the government >> schemes, banks and other interventions by entrepreneurs. This is led by >> non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that have remained true to the >> community-based model and have emerged by organising people to sort out >> their financial mismatches without the intervention of the external world, >> and if there is an intervention it is a conscious choice collectively >> exercised by the people. >> (2) The intervention by the government pre-existed the people’s movement >> and >> was expressed in the form of the self-help groups (SHGs). This has usually >> been supply-driven, addressing the institutional and physical >> infrastructure >> needs and offering standardised supply-side solutions or “schemes”. In >> Andhra Pradesh the State has almost usurped the community model through >> the >> Indira Kranti Patham scheme (earlier known as Velugu). Clearly the role of >> the government in Andhra Pradesh has moved beyond being an independent >> observer. In this case the State is in a peculiar position of being a >> player >> as well as an arbiter of microfinance practices. >> (3) The market forces, which look at the poor as a market, have found a >> mechanism to deliver credit through an efficient delivery model. This >> approach is more than a decade old and has made rapid growth. This growth >> has encouraged us to look at the business through a different lens. >> Each of these interventions has a different approach and uses a different >> methodology to reach out to the poor. These methodologies have an >> important >> bearing on the process and packaging of financial services. The SHG model >> was promoted as an alternative to the available options of financial >> intermediation. It was at one level rooted in the community and at another >> level was integrated with the larger banking system. The dealings were on >> the basis of mutuality, thus providing the power of a collective. The >> approach, by definition, was a slow one because there had to be a good >> understanding on how a collective based on the principles of mutuality >> worked. It required patience, tolerance and an appreciation of the >> constraints that the fellow SHG members faced. It made members think about >> their financial services needs of their households, and also those of >> their >> neighbours who were members of the collective. This helped the members >> think >> responsibly because they were dealing with their own money or the money of >> the members of the collective. This methodology ensured that people were >> together to narrate a growth story, a story of their confidence and how >> they >> were taking charge of their own lives. >> This movement is very time-consuming. The collective has to go through the >> many phases of forming, storming, norming and performing. Even if the >> process is slow, the edifice will be strong and lasting. This edifice can >> continue to serve the poor and the marginalised on an auto-pilot basis >> once >> it stabilises. Once this happens, it shows that the poor can not only take >> control of their resources, but as these resources grow they can hire >> professional help to manage their resources. This transformation does not >> happen overnight, but through a long process of community intervention. >> Unfortunately, there is impatience, and then there is the State. If the >> groups succeed, there is an urge to replicate the model quickly across the >> country. The success of community-centred microfinance has attracted the >> government. The State deals with large numbers and its anxiety to deliver >> development at a pace that can do justice to the incumbent combination is >> understandable. The State learnt quickly from the SHG movement and decided >> to adopt it as one of its “schemes”. The bank linkage programme has been >> going on for years, and each year the government increases the targets to >> the banks for linkage and ports several other welfare schemes on to the >> groups. >> Market for Inclusion >> The last type of player in the inclusion market is a product of market >> forces. In the last decade there have been several people who for years >> worked in the development sector with communities and became impatient for >> growth. They embraced a market-based model of inclusive finance. The idea >> was that if we are able to make this activity of inclusive finance >> inherently profitable, then more and more people (who work for profits) >> will >> see merit in operating in this market. And with a good number of players, >> the market will not only expand, but because of competition the poor >> customers would eventually get a good deal. >> Unfortunately there have been numerous instances where our belief in the >> market has been belied and microfinance adds to the scepticism about the >> school that believes only in markets. During the initial phases of the >> intervention by the market model of mFIs, most of us looked at the growth >> of >> these organisations with a sense of awe. These organisations brought >> efficiency to their operations. But gains in efficiency are usually a >> function of standardisation. Standardisation worked at two levels: (a) The >> organisations themselves offered standardised products, that allowed them >> to >> reduce operating costs. (b) The individual identity of each organisation >> and >> what it stood for vanished. In the field one could therefore see little >> difference between one MFI and the other.Rhyne (2001) writing about MFIs >> in >> Bolivia has said that the institutions tend to converge operationally to >> the >> dominant microfinance paradigm. The paradigm of commercial microfinance is >> that of minimalism. That credit should be provided efficiently and quickly >> and a sharpening of financial viability have influenced institutions >> operating in this space. >> Bolivian Experience >> In microfinance itself, there were significant lessons to be learnt from >> Bolivia. For instance, Rhyne indicates that the number of institutions >> that >> had a subsidy drastically fell in about four years, and each of these >> institutions lost its core identity. FIE, an MFI known for technical >> assistance to a single community-based enterprise, Fades, which used to >> focus on lending for community infrastructure projects, and ProMujer, >> which >> specialised in empowerment training; all dropped most of the operational >> practices that differentiated them from the dominant paradigm. >> This “convergence” is happening in India as well. The minimalist model >> disburses credit in as efficient a manner as selling soaps and shampoos. >> It >> has its merits. For instance, in a largely agrarian society where large >> cash >> inflows take place only during the harvest season and the local economy >> operates on peaking of financial activity in this season, forcing a weekly >> repayment is by definition defying the logic of agrarian cash flows. >> However, by forcing this weekly discipline these institutions have >> possibly >> expanded the market for credit – persuading people to think about >> activities >> that give a weekly cash flow that can service their loan. This could >> thereby >> have made more cash move through the hands of people and reduced their >> vulnerability. >> However, the downside of a standardised model is that unless the cultural >> and economic nuances of each location are understood, there could be >> cracks. >> A standardised model closes innovation, reduces responsiveness and >> prevents >> customisation and once it reaches stability it expects to grow at a >> scorching pace. When something – particularly in financial services – >> grows >> at an unnatural pace, it is going to build into a bubble sooner or later. >> Such a process in the market-based microfinance sector may be happening >> now. >> >> The hope that the demonstration of one market-based experiment will >> attract >> more players has come true. Many more organisations have entered the >> market >> and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they have put the >> “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started chasing >> targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not seen as >> human >> beings having an individual identity, characteristic and need. Instead >> they >> are seen as data points that add up to their profit statements. This >> anxiety >> for growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the marketbased >> models are impatient and look for returns (and then exit!). The evidence >> from Bolivia is available before us. Microfinance in that country went >> through a phase of intense competition, leading to over-indebtedness and >> even the collapse of a few institutions. A reading of the microfinance >> movement of Bolivia in the 1990s looks like a contemporary Indian >> commentary. All the elements – client poaching, competition, reckless >> lending, over-indebtedness of the client – that eventually caused cracks >> in >> the efficient credit delivery mechanisms were present in Bolivia. >> Effects of Rapid Growth >> One of the visible indicators of the standardised model is its religious >> belief in zero tolerance of default. The organisations following the >> market >> model have possibly seen too much of indiscipline in the delivery of >> credit >> to the poor and have realised that this is one variable that has to be >> controlled at all cost. The story of organisations having a near 100% >> recovery rate for years is a fable difficult to believe, given that no >> household or economy can be insular to shocks all the time. Yes, the >> commercial models have been able to control one cause of default – intent. >> But it is well known that default also happens when the ability to repay >> is >> impaired. The new generation of MFIs has possibly not learnt to deal with >> this aspect. For a long time, while the MFIs were growing at an unnatural >> pace through geographic diversification, the borrowers were probably >> growing >> at a normal pace. With competition setting in, more and more MFIs >> concentrated on the same geographies. >> With the client getting multiple choices and the anxiety of the client to >> get as much of finance as possible from multiple institutions and this >> coupled with the overzealous suppliers of credit meant that the client >> herself was trying to grow at an unnatural pace, or that the client had >> begun to resort to adverse usage of credit. Unfortunately the standardised >> models do not have the patience to engage with the client. It is one thing >> to justify the high cost of credit at lower levels, but we also have to >> realise that at higher levels of indebtedness, interest rates become >> onerous >> from the point of view of the poor households. >> Servicing five MFI loans of Rs 10,000 each at 28% is not the same as >> servicing one such loan. And since the MFIs have not provided themselves >> with a mechanism of coping with default, the pressure on the borrower >> turns >> out to be intense. And this pressure could potentially lead to suicides. >> We >> do not know whether the current spate of suicides in Andhra Pradesh is a >> result of the MFI loans and the intense repayment pressure on the clients. >> These are claims made by the state government. Vikram Akula, the chairman >> of >> SKS Microfinance acknowledged that 17 of the 30 suicide cases were related >> to borrowers of SKS (Indian Express, 15 October 2010). >> However he is not helping the cause of the MFIs by stating that “the >> deceased borrowers were not defaulters of SKS and they would have been >> driven to suicides by other factors such as pressure for repayment of dues >> by other MFIs that lent money to the same borrowers” (Mint, 15 October >> 2010). The collective response of the microfinance institutions has also >> been found wanting. All that they have offered is a code of conduct, which >> is observed in violation! A meta level credit bureau makes a mockery of >> what >> is clearly acknowledged on the field. You do not need a database of >> clients >> and loans. The clients themselves are openly talking of multiple >> borrowings. >> >> Governance Issues >> Unfortunately, the celebration of the market endorsement of this business >> at >> the “bottom of the pyramid” could not have been more ill-timed. At the >> ground level, the stress was showing. Clients (for whatever reasons) were >> committing suicides. At the institutional level, it appeared that the >> boardroom battles were all about stock options, cashing in, cashing out >> and >> severance packages, when each of the boards should have been discussing >> whether their business model was showing cracks. Instead of being >> introspective, the response of the MFIs has been stubborn and defensive. >> State Response >> The response of the State has also not been in the desirable direction. >> Obviously, all the action is centred around Andhra Pradesh which has the >> highest concentration of MFIs and the largest exposure through the >> SHG-Bank >> linkage model. The government has responded with a heavy hand by passing >> an >> ordinance that has shifted the discourse from the basic problem to a legal >> frame. This almost appears like the government taking revenge on the >> competition with its monopolistic regulatory power. While there are >> nuances >> in whether the Government of Andhra Pradesh has the ability and the >> inclination to digest the administrative implications of the ordinance, it >> has once again shown its inability to target the errant microfinance >> institutions, and has instead come down heavily on the entire market. >> Given >> that the State itself is a dominant player in this market, this >> heavy-handedness creates an undesirable competitive barrier to an >> alternative model of credit delivery. Instead of harping on caps on >> interest >> rates and threatening to remove microfinance from the priority sector >> list, >> it is necessary for the State/Reserve Bank of India to look at specific >> instances and pull up the delinquent organisations. The RBI has set up a >> committee to look into the issues pertaining to MFIs and has asked the >> committee to submit a report within three months. >> But what is not clear is why the RBI is not carrying out a routine >> inspection of the portfolio of some MFIs that are under its purview in >> order >> to understand the issues of ghost clients and multiple borrowings and take >> action to discipline the erring organisations. Some of these organisations >> have serious governance issues that are not being investigated. The >> institutional representatives on the boards of these MFIs have not >> exercised >> their independence. The promoters have gotten away with significant >> instances of skimming and there seems to be no dissent voiced on the >> greedy >> executive compensations and short-sighted behaviour of the management of >> the >> top MFIs. >> So on the one hand, while the larger directional of the movement of the >> State/RBI in terms of financial inclusion seems to be good – directing >> payments through banks, calling for financial inclusion plans, opening up >> branch licencing, removing the cap on end use interest rates and so on – >> its >> response to the rapid growth of microfinance has been somewhat alarmist. >> Hopefully the State and the RBI would do what is well within their mandate >> in specific cases. This would be a superior approach compared to the >> policy-level clampdown that they have been talking about. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> reader-list mailing list >> reader-list at sarai.net >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 13 >> ******************************************* >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajkamal From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 17:01:01 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:01:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Across the LoC Message-ID: http://beta.epw.in/newsItem/comment/188938/ "There are visible contradictions between the Pakistani and PAJK constitutions. For instance, article 257 of the Pakistani constitution holds that the “people of Jammu and Kashmir will define their relationship with Pakistan after obtaining freedom”. Under section 5 (2) (vii) of the PAJK Legislative Assembly Election Ordinance, 1970, “a person will be disqualified for propagating any opinion or action in any manner prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan, the ideology of state’s accession to Pakistan or the sovereignty and integrity of Pakistan”. On the contrary, part 2 of section 7 of the 1974 PAJK constitution says that “no person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to the ideology of the state’s accession to Pakistan”. Thus without signing an affidavit of allegiance to Jammu and Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan, nobody is allowed to take part in the PAJK legislative assembly elections. The Amanullah Khan-led Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front and the All Parties Nationalist Alliance (APNA) espousing an independent state for Jammu and Kashmir have not been allowed to participate in several elections because they refused to sign the affidavit." From veeruz at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 17:04:02 2010 From: veeruz at gmail.com (Khaqsar Wangoo) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:04:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Real Story from Kashmir Part 1 Message-ID: Dear All, A true story of my barber who made me Pandit Khaqsar Wangoo http://koshur.blogspot.com/2004/06/barber.html Why Pandits stopped visiting his shop in Jan 1990 and why his son killed him ultimately ? A short story of betrayal , death , destruction and end of a communal Harmony in Kashmir. I just remained mute spectator at age 12. Watch out Part 2 soon. Regards , Khaqsar Wangoo From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Nov 2 18:42:39 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 18:42:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Loopholes in 7/11 blast chargesheet Message-ID: A police chargesheet full of holes. Is the 7/11 blasts trial going off rails? BY RAJESH AHUJA THE PAPERS they carry are frayed at the edges. Some are stacked in worn-out files, some in cloth bags and others preserved by family members. Papers they claim can prove their innocence. Thirteen of them stand accused of taking 187 lives, injuring 817 others and damaging railway property worth Rs. 85.61 lakh in Mumbai on 11 July 2006 by planting seven bombs in the city’s lifeline, the local trains. Some are charged by the Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) with planting bombs, a few stand accused of providing material support to the conspirators and a few allegedly brought half-a-dozen Pakistanis to India to carry out the attack. The chargesheet in the case states most of them were members of the banned Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI). But the chargesheet has lost one vote of confidence after another in the four years since it was filed. Most recently, the testimony of David Coleman Headley, an agent of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) and ISI of Pakistan, raises doubts about the ATS theory. Headley has told Indian interrogators that Pakistan Army Major Abdul Rehman alias Pasha, who joined the LeT after leaving the force, knew the boys who had carried out the 7/11 attack. Headley has said it was Mujammil Bhat who headed the India set-up of the LeT and oversaw preparations for the 26/11 attacks. But the chargesheet says the execution of the conspiracy to bomb Mumbai’s local trains was supervised by Azam Cheema, the LeT commander who was replaced by Bhat in 2005. Documents available with TEHELKA also show that when the ISI was looking for a recruit to attack the Indian Institute of Science (IISc), Bengaluru, it was Bhat who ‘loaned’ Abu Hamza to the ISI for the operation that was carried out in December 2005. This too points to Bhat being LeT commander for the rest of India. APART FROM this, the chargesheet has received another jolt from a police witness in the case. On 21 October, the female witness (name withheld) turned hostile during the trial, telling the court that Dr Tanveer Ahmed Ansari (accused No. 2) who worked in a hospital, regularly reported for work in the morning and stayed till late in the period between 8 and 10 July. The police had claimed in its chargesheet that Dr Ansari was present when the bombs were being prepared on 8-10 July in the house of another accused Shaikh Mohammad Ali. The deposition of the woman raises doubts on the police chargesheet. The same witness has also now raised doubts on the seizure memo prepared by the police, which bears her signature. It records recovery of bottles of acetone and hydrogen peroxide from Dr Ansari’s locker in the hospital. The chargesheet alleged that Dr Ansari procured these chemicals for preparing seven bombs that ripped apart train compartments. The bottles containing the material were supposedly kept in the locker room by Dr Ansari. But the witness told the court that the seizure memo was brought to her a few days after their supposed recovery, and the police asked her to backdate it. She also told the court that hydrogen peroxide is routinely used for cleaning wounds and acetone for removing acne. Mohammad Ali, a supplier of Unani medicines, has been accused of getting the bombs assembled at his house. The police say that RDX traces were found there. His lawyer Avinash Rasal says he has arguments to counter the charge but will open his cards at an appropriate time. Mohammad Ali is anguished. “Please go and have a look at my house. It is a two-storey, 10x10 accommodation that I share with my two brothers along with their wives and children,” he says. “It is simply impossible to hide so many bombmakers in the house without arousing the neighbours’ suspicion.” Interestingly, the 41-year-old accepts he was active in SIMI and used to campaign against video parlours in his locality. He also claimed he was picked up for interrogation by the police in connection with the Ghatkopar blast (2003) and Gateway of India blasts (2004), but was released when the police did not find evidence against him. “Truth will prevail. Just see the statement given by the female witness,” says Ata-ur-Rehman Shaikh, father of Faisal, 36, and Mujammil, 26, two others accused in the 7/11 case. “My sons were tortured to give confessions,” alleges their father. His third son Rahil is also an accused in the case — police say he is now somewhere in Britain. Rahil had sent money to finance the operation, according to KP Raghuvanshi, who led the investigation in the 7/11 case as joint commissioner, Mumbai ATS. But Ata-ur-Rehman has a different story to tell. He alleges that the police were looking for one Rahil Abdul Rehman Shaikh, who used to live in Grant Road of the city. His son’s name is Rahil Ata-ur-Rehman Shaikh. This similarity of names, says Ataur- Rehman, made his son a convenient target for the police. According to documents available with TEHELKA, there is indeed a Rahil Shaikh of Grant Road, who managed to give the slip to Delhi Police when the latter were about to arrest him. According to sources, Rahil Shaikh is an LeT member. He was also a prime suspect in the 7/11 case in the initial stages of the probe. A witness now says the police asked her to backdate the seizure memo a few days after the supposed recovery There are many more twists in the chargesheet, which may need a lot of explaining. It claims that Kamal Ansari, 37, a resident of Basupatti in Bihar, planted the bomb at Matunga railway station. Three Pakistani nationals — Salim, Hafijullah and Aslam — were with him when Kamal left the bomb to explode in the local train (645 Down Virar Fast), which claimed 28 lives. But Kamal told TEHELKA he was not even in Mumbai on 11 July 2006. Kamal claims on that day he rode his bike from Basupatti to Janakpur in Nepal, a distance of 13 km. The Nepal border authorities recorded his crossing in what is commonly known as a ‘bhansar register’. Kamal has photographs of his bike and the register where his name is clearly mentioned. But he doesn’t have the resources to get the original documents to prove his innocence. The ATS will need to overcome all these hurdles to prove its case in the court. More than four years after the incident, less than 60 out of the 2,000 witnesses have deposed so far. It could be a long wait for justice for those who say they have been falsely implicated. rajesh.ahuja at tehelka.com >From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 7, Issue 44, Dated November 06, 2010 From chintan.backups at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 00:36:05 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:36:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Prize Created for Gay Literature for Young Readers Message-ID: From http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/01/prize-is-created-for-gay-literature-for-young-readers/ Prize Is Created for Gay Literature for Young Readers By JULIE BOSMAN The American Library Associationhas added an award for gay and lesbian literature to its annual prizes for children’s books. The prizes, which include the prestigious John Newbery and Randolph Caldecott medals, will be announced on Jan. 10. The new award, called the Stonewall Children’s and Young Adult Literature Award, is for an English-language book “of exceptional merit relating to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered experience,” the association said on Monday. Stonewall Awards for adult books have been handed out since 1971. Robert Stevens, the president of the American Library Association, said in a statement that children’s books that include the experiences of gays and lesbians “are critical tools in teaching tolerance, acceptance and the importance of diversity.” Books that win awards from the association are closely watched by librarians, teachers and parents, and are typically distributed widely in bookstores, schools and libraries after receiving a prize. The American Library Association said there was a growing demand for high-quality children’s books that reflect the experiences of gays and lesbians, citing a national statistic that about 14 million children have a gay or lesbian parent. From chintan.backups at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 00:41:33 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:41:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kabir in the Classroom Message-ID: Some excerpts from http://www.teacherplus.org/interventions/initiating-kabir-in-the-classroom *Kabir in the Classroom* What might Kabir, a 15th century saint-poet, have to offer present day schools? This question has been central to the Kabir Project’s recent explorations in the field of education. As part of our ongoing work with schools and interactions with educators, we have mapped out some broad areas to explore further and build on the developing insights. Instead of making a package for instant delivery to schools, the emphasis is on building relationships with them and coming up with ideas suited to the needs, context and culture of each school. The resources we draw on include the poetry of Kabir, the musical renditions of it by various folk and classical singers, the Kabir films made by Shabnam Virmani, children’s books, and anything else that we can lay our hands on. There is a strong intention to collaborate with other organizations and initiatives dedicated to peace, nonviolence and harmony. While Kabir’s poetry grew out of his response to the concerns of his time, it continues to speak to us in the present day. The critical spirit of his words is a refreshing change from empty gestures of solidarity that come in the guise of proclamations about all human beings being part of one large family. *Hindu Muslim Sikh Isai, Hum Sab Hai Bhai Bhai* is something we often hear as part of national integration speeches, but how often do we initiate conversations about these differences in school? How can we embrace when we are not prepared to engage with ‘different-ness’? An appreciation of a shared humanity that binds us all can come only from interrogating what led to these divisions in the first place. This brings us to exploring the territory of labels, stereotypes, selfhood, othering, caste, religion, and so on. Our aim is to encourage children to examine the nature of conflict, its causes and how it can be overcome. And this seems especially important in a world where polarities are rigidly marked and identities are quickly consolidated, on the basis of something as fleeting as thought and opinion. Our discussions of diversity also extend to Kabir himself. There is not one single Kabir, but many Kabirs. He has been appropriated in sacred and secular spaces. His poetry is sung in folk and classical idioms. Visual representations of him vary widely. There are many different versions of stories surrounding his birth, life and death. However, this multi-faceted reality does not feature in the textbooks that children read, where the life story of Kabir is framed in a fixed, rigid way. Students do not get a taste of the multiplicity of Kabirs that flow around them. At a recent workshop with Rajghat Besant School in Varanasi, a student remarked, “I had just heard that Kabir was born to Muslim parents and brought up by a Brahmin widow. After watching Had-Anhad, I have been exposed to such varied perceptions – Muslim, Dalit, and Hindu.” Students may get thrown off by competing versions of reality because they are usually served only one version as the truth. However, it is vital that we expose them to the idea that history is not fixed and final, but always framed by the persons narrating it. And that reality is a complex thing, it is not black and white or clear-cut. While environmental education has become a buzzword in schools, it is approached mostly through the lens of science. The assumption is that of human beings and nature as separate entities in conflict with each other because of competing priorities. We want to infuse this space with the energy of mystical poetry and folk traditions that enable us to see the place of human beings in a deeper, connected ecosystem. What sparked off this idea was the story of a brave little parrot dousing a raging forest fire, which we encountered in a Kabir bhajan sung in Rajasthan. As we began to develop the idea of Kabir and ecology, it occurred to us how much of the wisdom that flows through his poems is drawn from the environment around him. Images of nature abound in his poetry, and he exhorts us to see the relationship between inner and outer ecologies. The mess that we have made of our surroundings is perhaps a reflection of the mess that lies inside of us. And we perhaps don’t care enough for the environment because we see it as separate from us. The poetry of Kabir and other mystics also urges us to question values like acquisitiveness and competition that have become such an integral part of our lives that we have lost the ability to see how our actions impact our inner and outer worlds. The Hindi classroom has traditionally been the space in which most students encounter the poetry of Kabir. This space can be redeemed from the drudgery of how poetry gets taught in our schools – where poems get looked at as artifacts produced by some creative genius, meant to be memorized by low mortals who can barely get at the meaning through a simplistic paraphrase. We want teachers and students to appreciate the fact that poetry is not frozen in textbooks but often quite rooted in people’s everyday lives. Engagement with poetry need not be a complicated literary task. The joy is in discovering how poems speak to us in our own situations. Our attempt is to introduce students to the rich folk singing traditions that bring alive the power of Kabir’s poetry in languages like Malwi, Kutchi and Marwari often subsumed under the label of ‘Hindi’ , yet different from the language of their textbooks. There is a different quality to the engagement and enjoyment that is possible through an exposure to the folk music traditions of India that have carried this poetry to us over five centuries. To read the entire article, visit http://www.teacherplus.org/interventions/initiating-kabir-in-the-classroom From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 13:00:31 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:00:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Poems of Ramesh Parekh from Amreli Message-ID: *Ramesh Parekh* *translated from the Gujarati by Rakesh Rao* *How Shall We? (Kevi Rite?)* The fingers that have painted the mountains Let’s efface them with the same ones, But how shall we obliterate the fissure- That’s there on the face of a glass. * * *Under the Lamp… (Batti Niche…)* How is something getting damp under the lamp? Post is spilling under the lamp. This incident transpires in the corridor, And moments are squashed under the lamp. Like a gossip of some alien city, Vacuum is expanded under the lamp. Which kind of fatigue is there? Why is the light reposed under the lamp? * * *I can’t…….* Neither can I clutch the barren azure Nor can paint the solitude The moon on my palm Yet can offer it to none Hence I’ll outlive within the words Beyond the clasp of Death Which direction my dreams escort me to- Why can’t I recede myself? What if I enshroud my eyelids? The Sun can’t be veiled thus Drench deep into the occasions as such- Hands do I’ve, yet do nothing. From: http://newquestindia.com/Html/26_PAREKH_poems%20&%20note.htm From kiccovich at yahoo.com Wed Nov 3 13:28:14 2010 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort Message-ID: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear all I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to discuss about the list with different people from different contexts in different places. I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list offers are immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately often gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and dismissive attitude. I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but this does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once in a while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from doing so. My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very interesting to the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) Warmly francesca francesca recchia kiccovich at yahoo.com it +39 338 166 3648 From agora158 at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 13:52:27 2010 From: agora158 at gmail.com (Ana Valdes) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 09:22:27 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <311E72B2-E0A0-4D98-BFA7-3AAE7158EE67@gmail.com> Dear Francesca I share with you the same feeling of frustration and dismay. I subscribed to this list because I like what Sarai do in the Art field, I like their ability to challenge and provoke. The discussion about Arundathi Roys comments about Kashmir feels strange fot someone living outside India. My knowledge about the topic is very limited but I react to the tone and the essence of the messages. I am à writer and spent four years in à high security prison in South America for aaying, writing and acting in.à way the military regime disliked. I has been working in the Pen club fot many years, sending letters to politicians in the whole world to release writers fr.o.m. prison. À Swedish Eritrean journalist, Dawitt Isaak, has spent 16 years in prison without trial in Eritrea, he is accused of being à spy and for offending the Eritrean state. We worked very hard to support Taslima Nasrin when she was banned, we did the same with Salman Rushdie. The role of the writers and the artists is always these, to challenge, to provoke, to offend the sensibilities of politicians and military, to be à fly in the ear of those exercing the power. I don't know Arundathi Roy but I am willing to defend her right to dissent and to be umconfortable, I believed that people in this list shared with me this feelings. Sincerely Ana Valdes living in Sweden Skickat från min iPhone 3 nov 2010 kl. 08:58 skrev francesca recchia : > Dear all > > > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to discuss > about the list with different people from different contexts in different > places. > > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list offers are > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately often > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and > dismissive attitude. > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but this > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. > > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once in a > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from doing so. > > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very interesting to > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > > Warmly > francesca > francesca recchia > kiccovich at yahoo.com > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From dulali.nag at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 14:07:35 2010 From: dulali.nag at gmail.com (DULALI NAG) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 14:07:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: <311E72B2-E0A0-4D98-BFA7-3AAE7158EE67@gmail.com> References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <311E72B2-E0A0-4D98-BFA7-3AAE7158EE67@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am in agreement with Ana and Francesca that some of the people posting their comments must (ought I to say should?) refrain from commenting on the private lives or habits of people and using derisive language while referring to someone. But these rules cannot be formulated as guidelines. One has to know for oneself what is fair to use in an argument and what is just a momentary pleasure derived from making a vulgar gesture. Dulali On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Ana Valdes wrote: > Dear Francesca I share with you the same feeling of frustration and dismay. > I subscribed to this list because I like what Sarai do in the Art field, I > like their ability to challenge and provoke. > The discussion about Arundathi Roys comments about Kashmir feels strange > fot someone living outside India. My knowledge about the topic is very > limited but I react to the tone and the essence of the messages. > I am à writer and spent four years in à high security prison in South > America for aaying, writing and acting in.à way the military regime > disliked. > I has been working in the Pen club fot many years, sending letters to > politicians in the whole world to release writers fr.o.m. prison. > À Swedish Eritrean journalist, Dawitt Isaak, has spent 16 years in prison > without trial in Eritrea, he is accused of being à spy and for offending the > Eritrean state. > We worked very hard to support Taslima Nasrin when she was banned, we did > the same with Salman Rushdie. The role of the writers and the artists is > always these, to challenge, to provoke, to offend the sensibilities of > politicians and military, to be à fly in the ear of those exercing the > power. > I don't know Arundathi Roy but I am willing to defend her right to dissent > and to be umconfortable, I believed that people in this list shared with me > this feelings. > Sincerely > Ana Valdes living in Sweden > > Skickat från min iPhone > > 3 nov 2010 kl. 08:58 skrev francesca recchia : > > > Dear all > > > > > > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to > discuss > > about the list with different people from different contexts in different > > places. > > > > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list > offers are > > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately > often > > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and > > dismissive attitude. > > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but > this > > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. > > > > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once > in a > > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from doing > so. > > > > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very > interesting to > > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > > > > Warmly > > francesca > > francesca recchia > > kiccovich at yahoo.com > > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 3 14:46:12 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 02:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <396750.22943.qm@web120208.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> francesca   "I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but this does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange." to defend a shallow understanding of issues or protect compartmentalised ideological positions, some people use dismissiveness or mocking or scorn or abuse as tools   it is most surprising when those who have a sharp intellect do it ...... one expects better from them   ......... aalok aima      --- On Wed, 11/3/10, francesca recchia wrote: From: francesca recchia Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort To: "sarai" Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 11:58 AM Dear all I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to discuss about the list with different people from different contexts in different places. I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list offers are immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately often gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and dismissive attitude. I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but this does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once in a while there is the chance of positive engagement  prevented me from doing so. My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very interesting to the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) Warmly francesca francesca recchia kiccovich at yahoo.com it +39 338 166 3648       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nagalakshmi.bala at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 14:48:27 2010 From: nagalakshmi.bala at gmail.com (Nagalakshmi Balakrishnan) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 14:48:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <311E72B2-E0A0-4D98-BFA7-3AAE7158EE67@gmail.com> Message-ID: Some topics bring out the worst in people. Kashmir 'belongs' to a group who will not even 'hear' an argument, forget listen! A forum for discussion means an exchange of ideas, but some on the list do not understand this and they stoop to the level of describing a woman's clothing or offering her candy! The pettiness is appalling. On 3 November 2010 14:07, DULALI NAG wrote: > I am in agreement with Ana and Francesca that some of the people posting > their comments must (ought I to say should?) refrain from commenting on the > private lives or habits of people and using derisive language > while referring to someone. But these rules cannot be formulated as > guidelines. One has to know for oneself what is fair to use in an argument > and what is just a momentary pleasure derived from making a vulgar > gesture. > > Dulali > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Ana Valdes wrote: > > > Dear Francesca I share with you the same feeling of frustration and > dismay. > > I subscribed to this list because I like what Sarai do in the Art field, > I > > like their ability to challenge and provoke. > > The discussion about Arundathi Roys comments about Kashmir feels strange > > fot someone living outside India. My knowledge about the topic is very > > limited but I react to the tone and the essence of the messages. > > I am à writer and spent four years in à high security prison in South > > America for aaying, writing and acting in.à way the military regime > > disliked. > > I has been working in the Pen club fot many years, sending letters to > > politicians in the whole world to release writers fr.o.m. prison. > > À Swedish Eritrean journalist, Dawitt Isaak, has spent 16 years in prison > > without trial in Eritrea, he is accused of being à spy and for offending > the > > Eritrean state. > > We worked very hard to support Taslima Nasrin when she was banned, we did > > the same with Salman Rushdie. The role of the writers and the artists is > > always these, to challenge, to provoke, to offend the sensibilities of > > politicians and military, to be à fly in the ear of those exercing the > > power. > > I don't know Arundathi Roy but I am willing to defend her right to > dissent > > and to be umconfortable, I believed that people in this list shared with > me > > this feelings. > > Sincerely > > Ana Valdes living in Sweden > > > > Skickat från min iPhone > > > > 3 nov 2010 kl. 08:58 skrev francesca recchia : > > > > > Dear all > > > > > > > > > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to > > discuss > > > about the list with different people from different contexts in > different > > > places. > > > > > > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list > > offers are > > > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately > > often > > > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and > > > dismissive attitude. > > > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, > but > > this > > > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. > > > > > > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every > once > > in a > > > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from > doing > > so. > > > > > > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very > > interesting to > > > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > > > > > > Warmly > > > francesca > > > francesca recchia > > > kiccovich at yahoo.com > > > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 3 15:26:23 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 02:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Arundhati Roy has stirred up a debate, not about Kashmir, but about herself Message-ID: <805596.28541.qm@web120202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> "Who would want to live in Arundhati Roy's India? Who would even want to read about Arundhati Roy's India? The government of India has many faults, but even Roy has to admit that living in this country isn't entirely intolerable. Confronted with the relentlessly bleak picture she paints, one in which the only good guys are murderers and mercenaries, who can blame middle India for retreating into their iPods and tabloid newspapers?"   "She is preaching to the converted. To the left-leaning publications of the west, she is an articulate, intelligent voice explaining the problems with 21st-century India. For the university lefties in India, she confirms their worst fears of a nation falling apart. But to any intelligent readers who may be sitting on the fence or for anyone from middle-class India taking their first tentative steps towards greater political involvement, her polemic serves to terrify and alienate."   (i think, a truer expression would have been "For the university lefties in India, she CATERS TO THEIR FONDEST DESIRE of a nation falling apart" - aalok)   "   "Initially her dissent was seen as admirable, then as a novelty, and now her view is largely marginalised." This week's shenanigans prove that debate about Arundhati Roy is, as ever, thriving. But her writing is rapidly becoming irrelevant in Indian public discourse."   ........ aalok aima     http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/31/arundhati-roy-kashmir-controversy   Arundhati Roy has stirred up a debate, not about Kashmir, but about herself   Roy has important things to say, but her tone and bluster ensure the only people listening are those who already agree with her   Leo Mirani guardian.co.uk, Sunday 31 October 2010   Arundhati Roy does what any good polemicist should do. She annoys people and forces them to take sides; she highlights an issue and gets people talking. Too bad that what she gets them talking about has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Inevitably, the debates she stirs tend not to centre around dams, or Maoists, or Kashmir, or even freedom of speech, but around Arundhati Roy.   Speaking at a conference on Sunday, Roy said, "Kashmir has never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact." The rightwing opposition BJP party, already in a mood over a similar conference last Thursday, decided enough was enough – this was their issue of the week, never mind that she has expressed similar sentiments before.   The government of India, with its usual lack of backbone, explored the possibility of arresting Roy for the laughably archaic crime of sedition. On Monday, the Hindustan Times reported she "may be booked for sedition". On Tuesday, the Guardian decided she "faces arrest over Kashmir remark". By Wednesday, the Los Angeles Times was convinced that "the Indian government took steps to authorise the arrest". Come Thursday, and editorials and blogs appeared praising Roy. Somewhere amid the ruckus, Kashmir was forgotten.   There are many things that are wrong with India. Its foreign policy is wishy-washy, its manner of handling internal security threats is dubious, the way India's powerless are treated by the state is despicable, and Kashmir – that great mix of the three – is an all-round disaster. All of these are worthy of essays, of debate, of balanced analysis and – as important – of partisan rants. There are plenty of rabid righties that need to be balanced by rabid lefties.   In an India obsessed with shiny new shopping malls and expressways and the launch of the latest international luxury brand, in rapidly morphing cities where slum-dwellers are shunted out to the suburbs and even the raincoats on a policeman's back are sponsored, there is a desperate need for polemicists to remind the smug middle class about the 800 million-odd who don't get to partake in what the tourism department calls Incredible India. Palagummi Sainath, the author of Everybody Loves a Good Drought, did it with elegance. Arundhati Roy does it with infinite righteousness.   Roy wrote a paean earlier this year to the cause of the Maoists – a group dedicated to the violent overthrow of the state and responsible for beheading policemen, murdering civilians and killing dozens of soldiers – while skewering the state for waging war on the poor. In her most recent essay before the Kashmir kerfuffle, Roy told readers of one of India's best-selling news weeklies that the government is a farce, the media is a shambles, the military is not to be trusted, the mainstream communist parties are a joke, and India's democracy is only nominal.   Who would want to live in Arundhati Roy's India? Who would even want to read about Arundhati Roy's India? The government of India has many faults, but even Roy has to admit that living in this country isn't entirely intolerable. Confronted with the relentlessly bleak picture she paints, one in which the only good guys are murderers and mercenaries, who can blame middle India for retreating into their iPods and tabloid newspapers?   Roy has important things to say, but her tone and bluster ensure the only people listening are those who already agree with her. She is preaching to the converted. To the left-leaning publications of the west, she is an articulate, intelligent voice explaining the problems with 21st-century India. For the university lefties in India, she confirms their worst fears of a nation falling apart. But to any intelligent readers who may be sitting on the fence or for anyone from middle-class India taking their first tentative steps towards greater political involvement, her polemic serves to terrify and alienate.   As Salil Tripathi writes over at the Index on Censorship blog, "Initially her dissent was seen as admirable, then as a novelty, and now her view is largely marginalised." This week's shenanigans prove that debate about Arundhati Roy is, as ever, thriving. But her writing is rapidly becoming irrelevant in Indian public discourse.   From asit1917 at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 16:59:33 2010 From: asit1917 at gmail.com (asit das) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 16:59:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: me too asit On 11/2/10, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Hey, > > I also want to sign the "DEMAND TO UPHOLD FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION > PUBLIC STATEMENT"! > > How can it be done? > > Regards > Rajkamal > > > On 11/2/10, asit das wrote: >> On 11/2/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net >> wrote: >>> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to >>> reader-list at sarai.net >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> reader-list-owner at sarai.net >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Demand to uphold free speech and expression (Yousuf) >>> 2. Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare (Shashidhar) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) >>> From: Yousuf >>> To: sarai list >>> Subject: [Reader-list] Demand to uphold free speech and expression >>> Message-ID: <859916.20954.qm at web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> >>> DEMAND TO UPHOLD FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION >>> PUBLIC STATEMENT >>> >>> We condemn the demand of the BJP to “take the strongest possible action” >>> against Arundhati Roy for her “seditious comments” at the seminar, >>> “Azadi: >>> The only way” held in New Delhi, October 21, 2010. There is recorded >>> evidence to prove that the views expressed by her are not new and have >>> also >>> been made by innumerable others before and after her. If Arundhati Roy or >>> Syed Ali Shah Geelani (or any other speaker from that seminar) is to be >>> arrested for what they have said, then by the same logic a number of us >>> would have to be imprisoned not to mention the entire population of >>> Kashmir. >>> >>> The concept of `sedition’ is archaic and has no place in a modern >>> democratic >>> imagination. Perhaps for this reason the Drafting Committee of the Indian >>> Constitution did not include “sedition” among the “reasonable >>> restrictions” >>> to Article 19(1) (a). In 1962, the Supreme Court (Kedar Nath Singh vs. >>> the >>> State of Bihar) read down Section 124A IPC to argue that only a call to >>> violence or armed rebellion qualified to be considered as `sedition’. The >>> same Judgement reiterated the importance of not allowing the provision to >>> interfere with the Right to Free Speech and Expression. As the present >>> controversy proves, the Supreme Court’s worst fears have been confirmed. >>> The >>> Bajrang Dal’s threat that they will hound Arundhati Roy like M.F Hussain >>> provides further confirmation that `sedition’ will now be the new pretext >>> for censorship. When the British charged Gandhi with sedition, he >>> famously >>> said, “Sedition in law is a deliberate crime but it >>> appears to me to be the highest duty of a citizen.” Expressing dissent >>> about thenation-state and re-imagining its future is certainly the right >>> of >>> every citizen if not the “highest duty”. >>> >>> We would like to point out that the disruption of the meeting and the >>> allegations of `sedition’ is part of a well orchestrated campaign. The >>> right >>> wing elements who disrupted the Azadi meeting were working in tandem with >>> certain media channels who flouted all norms of professional journalism >>> to >>> create hysteria. In what appears to be an instance of `paid news’, a >>> certain >>> national news channel started a one-sided campaign against “splittists” >>> and >>> the “sedition industry” within hours of the meeting being held. The >>> `report’ >>> only focused on two speakers and their supposed “seditious” utterances. >>> >>> It is understandable that the BJP, in an attempt to deflect attention >>> from >>> the Ajmer Blast case, should indulge in hyper-jingoism but it is most >>> unfortunate that the UPA, while deciding not to press charges of sedition >>> against the speakers, did not assert their right to free speech and >>> expression. Their silence on this matter has only emboldened groups like >>> the >>> Bajrang Dal who now want to take matters into their own hands. >>> This is perhaps expected from a government that has sought to suppress >>> all >>> dissent in the valley through brute force. Between June and October 2010, >>> 111 people have been killed by security forces and this includes young >>> boys >>> who were not even participating in the protests. Countless have been >>> maimed >>> and injured by bullet injuries while many have been blinded by the >>> catapults >>> with marble shots used by the CRPF. For over two decades now, the armed >>> and >>> security forces have been committing extra-judicial killings, torture, >>> disappearances and rape with impunity. Draconian legislations like the >>> Armed >>> Forces (Special Powers) Act, the Jammu and &Kashmir Public Safety Act and >>> the Disturbed Areas Act continue to facilitate human rights abuses in the >>> valley. The hysterical cry to enforce the rule of law in the case of the >>> Azadi seminar contrasts with the long silence about the widespread and >>> systematic human rights violations in Kashmir. By allowing the speakers >>> of >>> the Azadi seminar to be censored, the government hopes to maintain its >>> silence on Kashmir. >>> >>> We therefore demand that the government take full cognizance of the >>> continuing violation of human rights in the valley, make the security >>> forces >>> fully accountable so that the guilty can be prosecuted and punished. We >>> demand that the democratic right to free speech and expression is upheld >>> and >>> every citizen in this country, including the speakers of the Azadi >>> seminar, >>> is given full protection from any attempt to impose legal or extra-legal >>> censorship. >>> >>> Signatories: >>> >>> Vrinda Grover Lawyer, Delhi >>> Shohini Ghosh Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi >>> Nivedita Menon Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi >>> Amar Kanwar Filmmaker & Artist, Delhi >>> Ranjani Mazumdar Associate Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. >>> Aditya Nigam Fellow, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies >>> Dayanita Singh Photographer, Delhi >>> Urvashi Butalia Writer and Publisher, Delhi >>> Lawrence Liang Alternative Law Forum, Bangalore >>> Sabeena Gadihoke Associate Professor, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi >>> Saba Dewan Independent Filmmaker >>> Aparna Sen Filmmaker and Actress, Kolkata >>> Kalyan Ray Author and Professor, Morris College, USA. >>> Joya Chatterji Historian, Trinity College, University of Cambridge, UK. >>> Lakshmi Subramaniam Professor, Centre for Social Sciences, Kolkata >>> Kajri Jain Asst. Professor, University of Toronto, Toronto. >>> Kumkum Roy Historian, Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Delhi >>> Kamala Vishweshwaran Professor of Anthropology, University of Texas, >>> Austin >>> Shikha Jhingan Asst. Professor, Lady Shri Ram College, Delhi University, >>> Delhi. >>> Anjali Monteiro Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. >>> Kalyani Menon-Sen Researcher & Independent Activist, Gurgaon >>> Uma Chakravarty Historian (Retired Professor, Delhi University) Delhi >>> KP Jayshankar Professor, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. >>> Pamela Philipose Journalist & Director. Womens Feature Service >>> Harsh Mandar Writer and Activist >>> Gauhar Raza Filmmaker & Poet, Delhi >>> Anuradha Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi >>> Shabnam Hashmi Social Activist, Anhad >>> Neeraj Malik Associate Professor, Indraprastha College, Delhi University >>> Javed Malick Retired Professor, Delhi University >>> Madhu Bhaduri Former, IFS Officer >>> Anuradha Bhasin Executive Editor, Kashmir Times >>> Jyotsna Kapur Assoc. Professor, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. >>> Dunu Roy Environmentalist, Hazard Centre, Delhi >>> Kamal Mitra Chenoy Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi >>> Ujjwal Kumar Singh Professor, Delhi University, Delhi. >>> Mahua Sarkar Assoc. Professor, Binghampton University, SUNY >>> Arvind Narrain Lawyer, Alternative Law Forum >>> Rebecca M. John Lawyer, Delhi >>> Amita Baviskar Associate Professor, Institute of Economic Growth >>> Sarada Balagopalan Associate Fellow, CSDS >>> Kaushik Ghosh Assistant Professor, University of Texas, Austin >>> >>> (Issued in November 2010) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:57:17 +0530 >>> From: "Shashidhar" >>> To: "sarai-list" >>> Subject: [Reader-list] Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a >>> Nightmare >>> Message-ID: <008601cb7a70$249fa840$6ddef8c0$@butterfliesindia.org> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Good write up on the MFI nightmare in Andhra >>> >>> >>> >>> http://beta.epw.in/newsItem/comment/188904/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Shashi >>> >>> Microfinance: A Fairy Tale Turns into a Nightmare >>> M S Sriram >>> It was inevitable that the commercial model of microfinance in India, >>> with >>> its minimalist and standardised model of lending, would grow into a >>> bubble >>> and run into trouble. >>> Many microfinance commercial organisations have entered the market in >>> search >>> of profits and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they >>> have >>> put the “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started >>> chasing targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not >>> seen >>> as human beings having individual identities and needs. Instead they are >>> seen as data points that add up in their profit statements. The anxiety >>> for >>> growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the market-based >>> models >>> are impatient and look for high returns – and then exit! >>> There is a new intensity in the discussion on microfinance – about >>> multiple >>> lending, interest rates and on whether a bubble is being built around >>> lending to the poor. There is a heated debate about the interest rates of >>> microfinance institutions (MFIs) and whether they could be termed >>> usurious. >>> There has also been a boardroom fracas at SKS Microfinance – an event >>> unrelated to the larger one about the delicate relationship between MFIs >>> and >>> their clients, but it is nevertheless hogging equal headline space in the >>> press. The commercial section of the industry has reacted with the >>> industry >>> association – the Microfinance Institutions Network (MFIN) – coming out >>> with >>> a code of conduct. The State has indicated its displeasure about the >>> level >>> of interest rates and it has sent an advisory to the commercial banks. >>> The >>> Government of Andhra Pradesh, facing a lot of flak from the local press >>> and >>> the opposition parties, has promulgated an ordinance in order to “rein >>> in” >>> MFIs. >>> There is indeed a sense of déjà vu to the entire episode – of a crisis >>> following heady success. The success had culminated in the >>> oversubscription >>> of the SKS Microfinance initial public offering, allotment of shares at >>> the >>> upper end of the indicative price band, listing of the scrip at a >>> premium, >>> and its continuous rise thereafter. As this was sinking into the minds of >>> the players in the microfinance market – and with the next rung of >>> institutions ready to harvest the gold rush – the same SKS Microfinance >>> was >>> in the news for all the wrong reasons. >>> Three Models >>> This article looks at the growth in microfinance, keeping the current >>> developments in perspective. But before looking at the current episode, >>> it >>> is important to have a perspective on how the microfinance space is >>> organised and who the different of players in the market are. At this >>> point >>> of time there are three significant interventions in the provision of >>> universal access to financial services. >>> (1) The people’s movement which has existed outside of the government >>> schemes, banks and other interventions by entrepreneurs. This is led by >>> non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that have remained true to the >>> community-based model and have emerged by organising people to sort out >>> their financial mismatches without the intervention of the external >>> world, >>> and if there is an intervention it is a conscious choice collectively >>> exercised by the people. >>> (2) The intervention by the government pre-existed the people’s movement >>> and >>> was expressed in the form of the self-help groups (SHGs). This has >>> usually >>> been supply-driven, addressing the institutional and physical >>> infrastructure >>> needs and offering standardised supply-side solutions or “schemes”. In >>> Andhra Pradesh the State has almost usurped the community model through >>> the >>> Indira Kranti Patham scheme (earlier known as Velugu). Clearly the role >>> of >>> the government in Andhra Pradesh has moved beyond being an independent >>> observer. In this case the State is in a peculiar position of being a >>> player >>> as well as an arbiter of microfinance practices. >>> (3) The market forces, which look at the poor as a market, have found a >>> mechanism to deliver credit through an efficient delivery model. This >>> approach is more than a decade old and has made rapid growth. This growth >>> has encouraged us to look at the business through a different lens. >>> Each of these interventions has a different approach and uses a different >>> methodology to reach out to the poor. These methodologies have an >>> important >>> bearing on the process and packaging of financial services. The SHG model >>> was promoted as an alternative to the available options of financial >>> intermediation. It was at one level rooted in the community and at >>> another >>> level was integrated with the larger banking system. The dealings were on >>> the basis of mutuality, thus providing the power of a collective. The >>> approach, by definition, was a slow one because there had to be a good >>> understanding on how a collective based on the principles of mutuality >>> worked. It required patience, tolerance and an appreciation of the >>> constraints that the fellow SHG members faced. It made members think >>> about >>> their financial services needs of their households, and also those of >>> their >>> neighbours who were members of the collective. This helped the members >>> think >>> responsibly because they were dealing with their own money or the money >>> of >>> the members of the collective. This methodology ensured that people were >>> together to narrate a growth story, a story of their confidence and how >>> they >>> were taking charge of their own lives. >>> This movement is very time-consuming. The collective has to go through >>> the >>> many phases of forming, storming, norming and performing. Even if the >>> process is slow, the edifice will be strong and lasting. This edifice can >>> continue to serve the poor and the marginalised on an auto-pilot basis >>> once >>> it stabilises. Once this happens, it shows that the poor can not only >>> take >>> control of their resources, but as these resources grow they can hire >>> professional help to manage their resources. This transformation does not >>> happen overnight, but through a long process of community intervention. >>> Unfortunately, there is impatience, and then there is the State. If the >>> groups succeed, there is an urge to replicate the model quickly across >>> the >>> country. The success of community-centred microfinance has attracted the >>> government. The State deals with large numbers and its anxiety to deliver >>> development at a pace that can do justice to the incumbent combination is >>> understandable. The State learnt quickly from the SHG movement and >>> decided >>> to adopt it as one of its “schemes”. The bank linkage programme has been >>> going on for years, and each year the government increases the targets to >>> the banks for linkage and ports several other welfare schemes on to the >>> groups. >>> Market for Inclusion >>> The last type of player in the inclusion market is a product of market >>> forces. In the last decade there have been several people who for years >>> worked in the development sector with communities and became impatient >>> for >>> growth. They embraced a market-based model of inclusive finance. The idea >>> was that if we are able to make this activity of inclusive finance >>> inherently profitable, then more and more people (who work for profits) >>> will >>> see merit in operating in this market. And with a good number of players, >>> the market will not only expand, but because of competition the poor >>> customers would eventually get a good deal. >>> Unfortunately there have been numerous instances where our belief in the >>> market has been belied and microfinance adds to the scepticism about the >>> school that believes only in markets. During the initial phases of the >>> intervention by the market model of mFIs, most of us looked at the growth >>> of >>> these organisations with a sense of awe. These organisations brought >>> efficiency to their operations. But gains in efficiency are usually a >>> function of standardisation. Standardisation worked at two levels: (a) >>> The >>> organisations themselves offered standardised products, that allowed them >>> to >>> reduce operating costs. (b) The individual identity of each organisation >>> and >>> what it stood for vanished. In the field one could therefore see little >>> difference between one MFI and the other.Rhyne (2001) writing about MFIs >>> in >>> Bolivia has said that the institutions tend to converge operationally to >>> the >>> dominant microfinance paradigm. The paradigm of commercial microfinance >>> is >>> that of minimalism. That credit should be provided efficiently and >>> quickly >>> and a sharpening of financial viability have influenced institutions >>> operating in this space. >>> Bolivian Experience >>> In microfinance itself, there were significant lessons to be learnt from >>> Bolivia. For instance, Rhyne indicates that the number of institutions >>> that >>> had a subsidy drastically fell in about four years, and each of these >>> institutions lost its core identity. FIE, an MFI known for technical >>> assistance to a single community-based enterprise, Fades, which used to >>> focus on lending for community infrastructure projects, and ProMujer, >>> which >>> specialised in empowerment training; all dropped most of the operational >>> practices that differentiated them from the dominant paradigm. >>> This “convergence” is happening in India as well. The minimalist model >>> disburses credit in as efficient a manner as selling soaps and shampoos. >>> It >>> has its merits. For instance, in a largely agrarian society where large >>> cash >>> inflows take place only during the harvest season and the local economy >>> operates on peaking of financial activity in this season, forcing a >>> weekly >>> repayment is by definition defying the logic of agrarian cash flows. >>> However, by forcing this weekly discipline these institutions have >>> possibly >>> expanded the market for credit – persuading people to think about >>> activities >>> that give a weekly cash flow that can service their loan. This could >>> thereby >>> have made more cash move through the hands of people and reduced their >>> vulnerability. >>> However, the downside of a standardised model is that unless the cultural >>> and economic nuances of each location are understood, there could be >>> cracks. >>> A standardised model closes innovation, reduces responsiveness and >>> prevents >>> customisation and once it reaches stability it expects to grow at a >>> scorching pace. When something – particularly in financial services – >>> grows >>> at an unnatural pace, it is going to build into a bubble sooner or later. >>> Such a process in the market-based microfinance sector may be happening >>> now. >>> >>> The hope that the demonstration of one market-based experiment will >>> attract >>> more players has come true. Many more organisations have entered the >>> market >>> and are competing to lend to the poor. In the process they have put the >>> “understanding” of the needs of the poor aside and have started chasing >>> targets and numbers. For these institutions, the poor are not seen as >>> human >>> beings having an individual identity, characteristic and need. Instead >>> they >>> are seen as data points that add up to their profit statements. This >>> anxiety >>> for growth is dictated by the fact that the investors in the marketbased >>> models are impatient and look for returns (and then exit!). The evidence >>> from Bolivia is available before us. Microfinance in that country went >>> through a phase of intense competition, leading to over-indebtedness and >>> even the collapse of a few institutions. A reading of the microfinance >>> movement of Bolivia in the 1990s looks like a contemporary Indian >>> commentary. All the elements – client poaching, competition, reckless >>> lending, over-indebtedness of the client – that eventually caused cracks >>> in >>> the efficient credit delivery mechanisms were present in Bolivia. >>> Effects of Rapid Growth >>> One of the visible indicators of the standardised model is its religious >>> belief in zero tolerance of default. The organisations following the >>> market >>> model have possibly seen too much of indiscipline in the delivery of >>> credit >>> to the poor and have realised that this is one variable that has to be >>> controlled at all cost. The story of organisations having a near 100% >>> recovery rate for years is a fable difficult to believe, given that no >>> household or economy can be insular to shocks all the time. Yes, the >>> commercial models have been able to control one cause of default – >>> intent. >>> But it is well known that default also happens when the ability to repay >>> is >>> impaired. The new generation of MFIs has possibly not learnt to deal with >>> this aspect. For a long time, while the MFIs were growing at an unnatural >>> pace through geographic diversification, the borrowers were probably >>> growing >>> at a normal pace. With competition setting in, more and more MFIs >>> concentrated on the same geographies. >>> With the client getting multiple choices and the anxiety of the client to >>> get as much of finance as possible from multiple institutions and this >>> coupled with the overzealous suppliers of credit meant that the client >>> herself was trying to grow at an unnatural pace, or that the client had >>> begun to resort to adverse usage of credit. Unfortunately the >>> standardised >>> models do not have the patience to engage with the client. It is one >>> thing >>> to justify the high cost of credit at lower levels, but we also have to >>> realise that at higher levels of indebtedness, interest rates become >>> onerous >>> from the point of view of the poor households. >>> Servicing five MFI loans of Rs 10,000 each at 28% is not the same as >>> servicing one such loan. And since the MFIs have not provided themselves >>> with a mechanism of coping with default, the pressure on the borrower >>> turns >>> out to be intense. And this pressure could potentially lead to suicides. >>> We >>> do not know whether the current spate of suicides in Andhra Pradesh is a >>> result of the MFI loans and the intense repayment pressure on the >>> clients. >>> These are claims made by the state government. Vikram Akula, the chairman >>> of >>> SKS Microfinance acknowledged that 17 of the 30 suicide cases were >>> related >>> to borrowers of SKS (Indian Express, 15 October 2010). >>> However he is not helping the cause of the MFIs by stating that “the >>> deceased borrowers were not defaulters of SKS and they would have been >>> driven to suicides by other factors such as pressure for repayment of >>> dues >>> by other MFIs that lent money to the same borrowers” (Mint, 15 October >>> 2010). The collective response of the microfinance institutions has also >>> been found wanting. All that they have offered is a code of conduct, >>> which >>> is observed in violation! A meta level credit bureau makes a mockery of >>> what >>> is clearly acknowledged on the field. You do not need a database of >>> clients >>> and loans. The clients themselves are openly talking of multiple >>> borrowings. >>> >>> Governance Issues >>> Unfortunately, the celebration of the market endorsement of this business >>> at >>> the “bottom of the pyramid” could not have been more ill-timed. At the >>> ground level, the stress was showing. Clients (for whatever reasons) were >>> committing suicides. At the institutional level, it appeared that the >>> boardroom battles were all about stock options, cashing in, cashing out >>> and >>> severance packages, when each of the boards should have been discussing >>> whether their business model was showing cracks. Instead of being >>> introspective, the response of the MFIs has been stubborn and defensive. >>> State Response >>> The response of the State has also not been in the desirable direction. >>> Obviously, all the action is centred around Andhra Pradesh which has the >>> highest concentration of MFIs and the largest exposure through the >>> SHG-Bank >>> linkage model. The government has responded with a heavy hand by passing >>> an >>> ordinance that has shifted the discourse from the basic problem to a >>> legal >>> frame. This almost appears like the government taking revenge on the >>> competition with its monopolistic regulatory power. While there are >>> nuances >>> in whether the Government of Andhra Pradesh has the ability and the >>> inclination to digest the administrative implications of the ordinance, >>> it >>> has once again shown its inability to target the errant microfinance >>> institutions, and has instead come down heavily on the entire market. >>> Given >>> that the State itself is a dominant player in this market, this >>> heavy-handedness creates an undesirable competitive barrier to an >>> alternative model of credit delivery. Instead of harping on caps on >>> interest >>> rates and threatening to remove microfinance from the priority sector >>> list, >>> it is necessary for the State/Reserve Bank of India to look at specific >>> instances and pull up the delinquent organisations. The RBI has set up a >>> committee to look into the issues pertaining to MFIs and has asked the >>> committee to submit a report within three months. >>> But what is not clear is why the RBI is not carrying out a routine >>> inspection of the portfolio of some MFIs that are under its purview in >>> order >>> to understand the issues of ghost clients and multiple borrowings and >>> take >>> action to discipline the erring organisations. Some of these >>> organisations >>> have serious governance issues that are not being investigated. The >>> institutional representatives on the boards of these MFIs have not >>> exercised >>> their independence. The promoters have gotten away with significant >>> instances of skimming and there seems to be no dissent voiced on the >>> greedy >>> executive compensations and short-sighted behaviour of the management of >>> the >>> top MFIs. >>> So on the one hand, while the larger directional of the movement of the >>> State/RBI in terms of financial inclusion seems to be good – directing >>> payments through banks, calling for financial inclusion plans, opening up >>> branch licencing, removing the cap on end use interest rates and so on – >>> its >>> response to the rapid growth of microfinance has been somewhat alarmist. >>> Hopefully the State and the RBI would do what is well within their >>> mandate >>> in specific cases. This would be a superior approach compared to the >>> policy-level clampdown that they have been talking about. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> reader-list mailing list >>> reader-list at sarai.net >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> >>> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 13 >>> ******************************************* >>> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajkamal > From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 17:16:59 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:16:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arundhati Roy has stirred up a debate, not about Kashmir, but about herself In-Reply-To: <805596.28541.qm@web120202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <805596.28541.qm@web120202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "For the university lefties in India, she confirms their worst fears of a nation falling apart." http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=68127 (Prime Minister, Manmohan) Singh said, “running a government is not difficult, building a nation certainly is. This is what our people expect of us. We must never fail them”. Singh's words seem fresh to me (may be I feel like that). Fresh as my ideal young university leader who is telling his team to understand what is expected from them and what would fail if the expectations are not fulfilled. Critically thinking of building a nation could bring up uncomfortable discussions, especially when memories forgotten or sidetracked by the collective urban consciousness of India are brought back. These memories were heaped on top of each other like files of a dilapidated Public Works Department office, never numbered or organised. In between these heaps, are trapped the souls who bear the testimony of the bloody past that India as a nation has. I wonder, how is the author planning to deal with such a bloody past we have? What is this fascination that the author has about "picture of India"? If someone is painting a "bleak picture" of this country, how is it there are real people who have died real deaths, either for this country, or while defending their own rights, or crushed under might of the state? Or shall I consider this to be a part of the "nation building" exercise? Am i supposed to? For the author's concern of who would want to live in Arundhati's India, I would say that it is nothing but a rhetorical question posed to the readers in a bid to build consent. Similar tactics are used by a very prominent leader from Gujarat while addressing the rallies. I would suggest that the author doesn't undermine the sentiment of a university "lefty". This is where ideas take shape, and foundations are laid. The questions which are raised now is important for the future generations. Perhaps, author forgot about the future of this nation, while writing this piece. Thanks Anupam On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > "Who would want to live in Arundhati Roy's India? Who would even want to > read about Arundhati Roy's India? The government of India has many faults, > but even Roy has to admit that living in this country isn't entirely > intolerable. Confronted with the relentlessly bleak picture she paints, one > in which the only good guys are murderers and mercenaries, who can blame > middle India for retreating into their iPods and tabloid newspapers?" > > "She is preaching to the converted. To the left-leaning publications of the > west, she is an articulate, intelligent voice explaining the problems with > 21st-century India. For the university lefties in India, she confirms their > worst fears of a nation falling apart. But to any intelligent readers who > may be sitting on the fence or for anyone from middle-class India taking > their first tentative steps towards greater political involvement, her > polemic serves to terrify and alienate." > > (i think, a truer expression would have been "For the university lefties in > India, she CATERS TO THEIR FONDEST DESIRE of a nation falling apart" - > aalok) > > " "Initially her dissent was seen as admirable, then as a novelty, and > now her view is largely marginalised." This week's shenanigans prove that > debate about Arundhati Roy is, as ever, thriving. But her writing is rapidly > becoming irrelevant in Indian public discourse." > > ........ aalok aima > > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/31/arundhati-roy-kashmir-controversy > > Arundhati Roy has stirred up a debate, not about Kashmir, but about herself > > Roy has important things to say, but her tone and bluster ensure the only > people listening are those who already agree with her > > Leo Mirani > guardian.co.uk, Sunday 31 October 2010 > > Arundhati Roy does what any good polemicist should do. She annoys people > and forces them to take sides; she highlights an issue and gets people > talking. Too bad that what she gets them talking about has nothing to do > with the topic at hand. Inevitably, the debates she stirs tend not to centre > around dams, or Maoists, or Kashmir, or even freedom of speech, but around > Arundhati Roy. > > > Speaking at a conference on Sunday, Roy said, "Kashmir has never been an > integral part of India. It is a historical fact." The rightwing opposition > BJP party, already in a mood over a similar conference last Thursday, > decided enough was enough – this was their issue of the week, never mind > that she has expressed similar sentiments before. > > The government of India, with its usual lack of backbone, explored the > possibility of arresting Roy for the laughably archaic crime of sedition. On > Monday, the Hindustan Times reported she "may be booked for sedition". On > Tuesday, the Guardian decided she "faces arrest over Kashmir remark". By > Wednesday, the Los Angeles Times was convinced that "the Indian government > took steps to authorise the arrest". Come Thursday, and editorials and blogs > appeared praising Roy. Somewhere amid the ruckus, Kashmir was forgotten. > > > There are many things that are wrong with India. Its foreign policy is > wishy-washy, its manner of handling internal security threats is dubious, > the way India's powerless are treated by the state is despicable, and > Kashmir – that great mix of the three – is an all-round disaster. All of > these are worthy of essays, of debate, of balanced analysis and – as > important – of partisan rants. There are plenty of rabid righties that need > to be balanced by rabid lefties. > > > In an India obsessed with shiny new shopping malls and expressways and the > launch of the latest international luxury brand, in rapidly morphing cities > where slum-dwellers are shunted out to the suburbs and even the raincoats on > a policeman's back are sponsored, there is a desperate need for polemicists > to remind the smug middle class about the 800 million-odd who don't get to > partake in what the tourism department calls Incredible India. Palagummi > Sainath, the author of Everybody Loves a Good Drought, did it with elegance. > Arundhati Roy does it with infinite righteousness. > > > Roy wrote a paean earlier this year to the cause of the Maoists – a group > dedicated to the violent overthrow of the state and responsible for > beheading policemen, murdering civilians and killing dozens of soldiers – > while skewering the state for waging war on the poor. In her most recent > essay before the Kashmir kerfuffle, Roy told readers of one of India's > best-selling news weeklies that the government is a farce, the media is a > shambles, the military is not to be trusted, the mainstream communist > parties are a joke, and India's democracy is only nominal. > > Who would want to live in Arundhati Roy's India? Who would even want to > read about Arundhati Roy's India? The government of India has many faults, > but even Roy has to admit that living in this country isn't entirely > intolerable. Confronted with the relentlessly bleak picture she paints, one > in which the only good guys are murderers and mercenaries, who can blame > middle India for retreating into their iPods and tabloid newspapers? > > > Roy has important things to say, but her tone and bluster ensure the only > people listening are those who already agree with her. She is preaching to > the converted. To the left-leaning publications of the west, she is an > articulate, intelligent voice explaining the problems with 21st-century > India. For the university lefties in India, she confirms their worst fears > of a nation falling apart. But to any intelligent readers who may be sitting > on the fence or for anyone from middle-class India taking their first > tentative steps towards greater political involvement, her polemic serves to > terrify and alienate. > > > As Salil Tripathi writes over at the Index on Censorship blog, "Initially > her dissent was seen as admirable, then as a novelty, and now her view is > largely marginalised." This week's shenanigans prove that debate about > Arundhati Roy is, as ever, thriving. But her writing is rapidly becoming > irrelevant in Indian public discourse. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Nov 3 18:04:16 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 18:04:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> Dear Francesca, Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on seeing this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of people on this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of decency on more than one occasion. I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, unfortunately, this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I completely disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively on this list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their speech acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, like all those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, and about a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, dominate the tone and character of the list. My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the list, to reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and strange and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts may find a reflection in this sapce, so that the efforts of an aggressive minority to monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, to demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and spread poison. I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, best, Shuddha On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia wrote > Dear all > > > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to > discuss > about the list with different people from different contexts in different > places. > > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list offers > are > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately often > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and > dismissive attitude. > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but > this > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. > > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once in a > > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from doing so. > > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very interesting > to > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > > Warmly > francesca > francesca recchia > kiccovich at yahoo.com > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 18:13:48 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 18:13:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: Thanks Francesca i really relish ur posts on the list plz continue. love is On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:04 PM, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > Dear Francesca, > > Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on seeing > this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character > assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of people on > this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of decency on > more than one occasion. > > I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, unfortunately, > this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I completely > disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively on this > list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their speech > acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, like all > those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, and about > a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, dominate the > tone and character of the list. > > My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the list, to > reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and strange > and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts may find a > reflection in this sapce,  so that the efforts of an aggressive minority to > monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. > > If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, to > demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and spread > poison. > > I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, > > best, > > Shuddha > > On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia > wrote > >> Dear all >> >> >> I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to >> discuss >> about the list with different people from different contexts in different >> places. >> >> I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list offers >> are >> immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately often >> gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and >> dismissive attitude. >> I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but >> this >> does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. >> >> I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once in a >> >> while there is the chance of positive engagement  prevented me from doing so. >> >> My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very interesting >> to >> the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) >> >> Warmly >> francesca >> francesca recchia >> kiccovich at yahoo.com >> it +39 338 166 3648 >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 3 19:35:48 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 07:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] After Obama is gone Message-ID: <566683.63397.qm@web120215.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> i like this piece   the political ideology of the author is not thrust in our face ....... which is rare when it comes to kashmir   it presumes a future scenario but quite realistically ....... more resigned than cynical or pessimistic   ........ aalok aima   http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/3/after-obama-is-gone-22.asp   After Obama is gone   US President has only made a passing mention of Kashmir in his India tour, and Kashmir is shocked   POINT OF VIEW BY RIYAZ AHMAD   Let us assume it is October 9, and US president Barack Obama has left Indian shores for his next stop in Indonesia. He has had a roaring four day visit, evoking memories of the former US president Bill Clinton who fundamentally transformed the Indo-US relations during his 2000 visit. He doesn't, however, sign anything as groundbreaking as Bush's nuclear deal. Obama even doesn't go the whole hog on the Security Council seat for India. He, however, sounds positive on the issue, saying US is open-minded about India 's candidature for a permanent UNSC membership. However, the centre piece of his visit, the address to the parliament mesmerizes the nation and of course outlines the broad US policy for the South Asia with implications for China too. Obama also talks at great length about Afghanistan and the need to stabilize the country and for India and Pakistan to contribute to this international effort. Does he discuss Kashmir? Yes, he does. But he merely skirts the issue, reiterating the stock US line on the dispute. That is, India and Pakistan should resolve the issue between themselves and US at best can be a facilitator and a well-wisher. That is it.  This lackluster talk on Kashmir disappoints the people in the state. The opinion being heard quite often is that US hasn't been moved by the five month long protests in the state. More so, the string of strict hartals in the run up to the Obama visit. Kashmir isn't what the US is interested in its dealings with New Delhi, common people in the state start debating. “US and the world aren't bothered what happens in Kashmir, they have their own interests,” some say. More informed people talk about India's rising economic clout and the country’s enhanced significance for the recession-hit west. Some talk about the country's importance as a countervailing force to rising China . And others talk about India's democracy, secularism and inclusiveness, the country's calling cards in today's world. Something that for the west sets India redeemingly apart from the Muslim world where democracy, it is argued, has no place. The sum of the Obama visit is that India and US are again at the best of terms. Obama's great charm offensive has wowed the country as a whole. But Kashmir slips into a slough of despond with Obama leaving Kashmir as it is. There is an increasing chorus of a large number of I Told You Sos in the state, who declare their vindication from the rooftops. They go all out against Hurriyat strategy to draw Obama attention. That self infliction like endless hartals might articulate a message and win some media attention for a brief time but it doesn't change geo-politics. That a cause can take the loss of life but it cannot take job losses, that too in thousands. That the struggles have no short-cuts and those who try to do so lead themselves smack into a blind alley. And that in doing so, they harm the very cause they champion. For a moment I Told You Sos seem to be winning. There is a growing public opinion that echoes their take on the situation. "What did we get for five months of shutdowns,” a murmur rises across the Valley, first in hushed tones and then loudly. Hartal strategy seems to be reeling. Its advocates, for a while, fumble for answers. But, in no way, are they apologetic.  They soon change the goalpost. Obama's support is not the essential purpose of the strikes, they argue. It is about re-invigorating the freedom struggle as a whole. It is about drawing the entire world's attention to Kashmir. And it is about challenging New Delhi's control in the state. They also enumerate benefits of the five month agitation. ''It brought Kashmir back into global spotlight and brought pressure to bear on India,'' they say. They also, and justifiably, blame the government for bringing the situation to this pass by killing 111 youth, most of them teenagers - some of them boys under the age of ten. However, they don't think Obama visit is a lost cause. They either overlook it or play up a small oblique reference to Kashmir in his speech as their glorious triumph. Or they say US is silently pushing Kashmir resolution and meaningfully staying short of making it public so as not to alienate New Delhi. However, the baiters of the unending hartal strategy refuse to take any of this. They say, immediate US’ Kashmir interest is the result of the war in Afghanistan where solution to Kashmir is now seen as one of the ways to stabilize the Taliban country. It is also the result of Pakistan whose support Washington needs to defeat Taliban and al Qaeda, they say and argue that Kashmir protests play but a small part in this. And hartals? Hartals, they say, aren’t even noticed. And those supporting them need to get some minimum education in how world operates before inflicting themselves on the hapless people. The matter, however, doesn’t stop here. There is the future to look forward to. With Obama gone, and leaving us out in the cold, there is apparently no big event in sight to peg the strike calendar on. Or is it. Of course, there is the visit of Chinese premier Wen Jiabao, sometime in the winter. The visit, in a sense, is more interesting than US from the separatist point of view. In recent months, China has carved for itself a distinct role in Kashmir debate by terming the state as disputed and issuing stapled visas to Kashmiris. So, to weave some strategy around the visit might be thought by some a worthwhile effort. Or it could be back to the demand for the acceptance of five point proposals. In that case, there will be again a case for shutdowns while the people against them condemn the extension of this failed strategy. The argument goes on. From rama.sangye at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 20:14:20 2010 From: rama.sangye at gmail.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:14:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: The best way to deal with those people is to ignore them altogether, and not respond at all. Then they will go away as they are not getting any response. They are playing for attention, and this forum is all that they can get. I have been surprised that people go on and on engaging in arguments and retorts and counter-retorts with them. Best VR From anu.mukh at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 20:38:17 2010 From: anu.mukh at gmail.com (anuradha mukherjee) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:38:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: I agree with Ramaswamy on this. I see many such posters make inane comments and the others trying to argue with them. If at all one needs to make a point, it should be made forcefully, but objectively, and left at that. Let's not feed the trolls or wannabe politicians by engaging with them because I know many just revel in seeing their names over and again. Anuradha On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:14 PM, V Ramaswamy wrote: > The best way to deal with those people is to ignore them altogether, and > not > respond at all. Then they will go away as they are not getting any > response. They are playing for attention, and this forum is all that they > can get. I have been surprised that people go on and on engaging in > arguments and retorts and counter-retorts with them. > > Best > > VR > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 21:29:49 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:29:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ajmer Blast: Rajasthan ATS arrests another suspect Message-ID: Ajmer blast: Rajasthan ATS arrests another suspect PTI, Nov 3, 2010, 08.21pm IST JAIPUR: The Anti-Terrorist Squad of Rajasthan has arrested another suspect in the 2007 Ajmer Dargah blast case who had allegedly played key role in the conspiracy behind the incident in which three persons were killed. The suspect Harshad Bhai Solanki, alias Munna alias Raj alias Daadhi Bhai, was also involved in the 2002 Best Bakery riot case in Vadodara and had been absconding since 2004. "He was brought by our team from Gujarat for interrogation and was arrested on November 1," ADG-ATS, Kapil Garg, told reporters here on Wednesday. "On the same day, he was produced before the court of chief judicial magistrate, Ajmer, from where he was remanded to police custody till November 9. Hailing from Vadodara, Gujarat, Solanki came into contact with Sunil Joshi, a suspect in the Ajmer blast case who was murdered in December 2007 in Madhya Pradesh, and was an was an accomplice of him while planning the Dargah blast, Garg said, adding he played important role in preparing the bombs, collecting explosives and other necessary equipments, and packaging of bombs. Garg said Solanki was involved in Best Bakery riot case and was among the four absconding accused out of total 17 since the trial of the case was transferred to Maharastra from Gujarat in 2004. Garg, however, declined to disclose details regarding Solanki's organizational affiliation, if any. Asked when senior RSS leader Indresh Kumar, whose name also figures in the chargesheet in connection with the Ajmer blast, will be interrogated, he said any such information could affect the investigation of the case. The ATS had filed the chargesheet in Dargah blast case before the court of the additional chief judicial magistrate in Ajmer on October 22 against five persons--Devendra Gupta, Lokesh Sharma, Chander Shekhar Lave, Sandeep Dange and Ramji Kalsangre (both absconding). http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ajmer-blast-Rajasthan-ATS-arrests-another-suspect/articleshow/6866703.cms From veeruz at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 21:57:45 2010 From: veeruz at gmail.com (Khaqsar Wangoo) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:57:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any Reason why Free Speech is being moderated at SARAI now ? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM Subject: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator approval To: veeruz at gmail.com Your mail to 'reader-list' with the subject Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Message has implicit destination Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/confirm/reader-list/2a7d195eab3113d55ddb4a923c381eae1c08d973 From kiccovich at yahoo.com Wed Nov 3 23:23:37 2010 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: <737784.94317.qm@web113203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Shudda and all Thank you very much for your messages. I very much appreciated that voices who are generally quieter felt the need to reply - there is a diversity in the list that is worth ackonwledging and giving value to. The question of freedom of expression is an interesting one. It is a subject very dear to me - last May I tried to organise a public debate on this subject in Iraqi Kurdistan and was denied the autorisation. Still I feel the need of questioning what freedom of speech actually means. And what is the role of individual responsability in excercising such freedom. I am not talking about self-censorship, but rather about respect and "good manners" (however old fashion this might sound). Thanks Francesca francesca recchia kiccovich at yahoo.com it +39 338 166 3648 ________________________________ From: "shuddha at sarai.net" To: sarai ; francesca recchia Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 17:04:16 Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort Dear Francesca, Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on seeing this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of people on this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of decency on more than one occasion. I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, unfortunately, this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I completely disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively on this list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their speech acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, like all those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, and about a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, dominate the tone and character of the list. My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the list, to reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and strange and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts may find a reflection in this sapce, so that the efforts of an aggressive minority to monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, to demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and spread poison. I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, best, Shuddha On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia wrote > Dear all > > > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to > discuss > about the list with different people from different contexts in different > places. > > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list offers > are > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately often > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and > dismissive attitude. > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but > this > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. > > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once in a > > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from doing so. > > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very interesting > to > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > > Warmly > francesca > francesca recchia > kiccovich at yahoo.com > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 00:08:47 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:08:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arundhati Roy has stirred up a debate, not about Kashmir, but about herself In-Reply-To: References: <805596.28541.qm@web120202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Aalok, Aima et al, I am pasting an excerpt of Mr. Mirani's article published in the Guardian on Sunday 15 August 2010 (link to this article cited below). "...........India's problems with alcohol tend to be largely private. Men, often working-class or rural (though by no means necessarily either), drink too much, do no work and beat up their wives. Rare is the Indian village where no woman has suffered abuse on account of her drunk husband. Few middle-class families haven't had maids supporting their abusive, alcoholic husbands. And because of India's baffling excise laws, spirits tend to be cheaper than lower-alcohol content beer or wine so everyone from college students to HR managers get hammered on standard measures of 30ml..............." Anyone who has traveled widely across India (by India I don't mean just the metros and the towns) knows how asinine and vacuous the idea is! Further he talks about Gujarat being the only "dry” state in India!!!!! I mean WTF??? What about Mizoram and Nagaland??? I guess like AR and the separatist of the respective states, Mirani doesn't consider them to be part of India! I mean there are lot of other things which exemplify and illustrate his shallow knowledge about India, its people and its pulses! For eg., he says that prohibition of Alcohol in India is not linked to religion! Well the bans in Mizoram and Nagaland are pure biblical in nature! And with this kind of inane ideas and superannuated knowledge, Mr Mirani concludes that Ms Roy is just "preaching to the converted" and that her ideas just appeal to the "university lefties in India," and "left-leaning publications of the west". The worst part is that the discourteously arrogant guy doesn't stop there! He also decides to write on behalf of the "intelligent readers sitting on the fence", "middle-class India taking their first tentative steps towards greater political involvement" and "public discourse" of India! Well, excuse me but, I am certainly not willing to be represented by the fatuous and dipsomaniac Mr. Mirani. And I am sure most of the guys (whom Mr. Mirani claims to represent) also wouldn’t! Regards Rajkamal link to the articles cited : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/15/indians-independence-day-alcohol? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/31/arundhati-roy-kashmir-controversy On 11/3/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > "For the university lefties in India, she confirms their worst fears of a > nation falling apart." > > http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=68127 > > (Prime Minister, Manmohan) Singh said, “running a government is not > difficult, building a nation certainly is. This is what our people expect of > us. We must never fail them”. > > Singh's words seem fresh to me (may be I feel like that). Fresh as my ideal > young university leader who is telling his team to understand what is > expected from them and what would fail if the expectations are not > fulfilled. Critically thinking of building a nation could bring up > uncomfortable discussions, especially when memories forgotten or sidetracked > by the collective urban consciousness of India are brought back. These > memories were heaped on top of each other like files of a dilapidated Public > Works Department office, never numbered or organised. In between these > heaps, are trapped the souls who bear the testimony of the bloody past that > India as a nation has. I wonder, how is the author planning to deal with > such a bloody past we have? What is this fascination that the author has > about "picture of India"? If someone is painting a "bleak picture" of this > country, how is it there are real people who have died real deaths, either > for this country, or while defending their own rights, or crushed under > might of the state? Or shall I consider this to be a part of the "nation > building" exercise? Am i supposed to? > > For the author's concern of who would want to live in Arundhati's India, I > would say that it is nothing but a rhetorical question posed to the readers > in a bid to build consent. Similar tactics are used by a very prominent > leader from Gujarat while addressing the rallies. I would suggest that the > author doesn't undermine the sentiment of a university "lefty". This is > where ideas take shape, and foundations are laid. The questions which are > raised now is important for the future generations. Perhaps, author forgot > about the future of this nation, while writing this piece. > > Thanks > Anupam > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > >> "Who would want to live in Arundhati Roy's India? Who would even want to >> read about Arundhati Roy's India? The government of India has many faults, >> but even Roy has to admit that living in this country isn't entirely >> intolerable. Confronted with the relentlessly bleak picture she paints, >> one >> in which the only good guys are murderers and mercenaries, who can blame >> middle India for retreating into their iPods and tabloid newspapers?" >> >> "She is preaching to the converted. To the left-leaning publications of >> the >> west, she is an articulate, intelligent voice explaining the problems with >> 21st-century India. For the university lefties in India, she confirms >> their >> worst fears of a nation falling apart. But to any intelligent readers who >> may be sitting on the fence or for anyone from middle-class India taking >> their first tentative steps towards greater political involvement, her >> polemic serves to terrify and alienate." >> >> (i think, a truer expression would have been "For the university lefties >> in >> India, she CATERS TO THEIR FONDEST DESIRE of a nation falling apart" - >> aalok) >> >> " "Initially her dissent was seen as admirable, then as a novelty, and >> now her view is largely marginalised." This week's shenanigans prove that >> debate about Arundhati Roy is, as ever, thriving. But her writing is >> rapidly >> becoming irrelevant in Indian public discourse." >> >> ........ aalok aima >> >> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/31/arundhati-roy-kashmir-controversy >> >> Arundhati Roy has stirred up a debate, not about Kashmir, but about >> herself >> >> Roy has important things to say, but her tone and bluster ensure the only >> people listening are those who already agree with her >> >> Leo Mirani >> guardian.co.uk, Sunday 31 October 2010 >> >> Arundhati Roy does what any good polemicist should do. She annoys people >> and forces them to take sides; she highlights an issue and gets people >> talking. Too bad that what she gets them talking about has nothing to do >> with the topic at hand. Inevitably, the debates she stirs tend not to >> centre >> around dams, or Maoists, or Kashmir, or even freedom of speech, but around >> Arundhati Roy. >> >> >> Speaking at a conference on Sunday, Roy said, "Kashmir has never been an >> integral part of India. It is a historical fact." The rightwing opposition >> BJP party, already in a mood over a similar conference last Thursday, >> decided enough was enough – this was their issue of the week, never mind >> that she has expressed similar sentiments before. >> >> The government of India, with its usual lack of backbone, explored the >> possibility of arresting Roy for the laughably archaic crime of sedition. >> On >> Monday, the Hindustan Times reported she "may be booked for sedition". On >> Tuesday, the Guardian decided she "faces arrest over Kashmir remark". By >> Wednesday, the Los Angeles Times was convinced that "the Indian government >> took steps to authorise the arrest". Come Thursday, and editorials and >> blogs >> appeared praising Roy. Somewhere amid the ruckus, Kashmir was forgotten. >> >> >> There are many things that are wrong with India. Its foreign policy is >> wishy-washy, its manner of handling internal security threats is dubious, >> the way India's powerless are treated by the state is despicable, and >> Kashmir – that great mix of the three – is an all-round disaster. All of >> these are worthy of essays, of debate, of balanced analysis and – as >> important – of partisan rants. There are plenty of rabid righties that >> need >> to be balanced by rabid lefties. >> >> >> In an India obsessed with shiny new shopping malls and expressways and the >> launch of the latest international luxury brand, in rapidly morphing >> cities >> where slum-dwellers are shunted out to the suburbs and even the raincoats >> on >> a policeman's back are sponsored, there is a desperate need for >> polemicists >> to remind the smug middle class about the 800 million-odd who don't get to >> partake in what the tourism department calls Incredible India. Palagummi >> Sainath, the author of Everybody Loves a Good Drought, did it with >> elegance. >> Arundhati Roy does it with infinite righteousness. >> >> >> Roy wrote a paean earlier this year to the cause of the Maoists – a group >> dedicated to the violent overthrow of the state and responsible for >> beheading policemen, murdering civilians and killing dozens of soldiers – >> while skewering the state for waging war on the poor. In her most recent >> essay before the Kashmir kerfuffle, Roy told readers of one of India's >> best-selling news weeklies that the government is a farce, the media is a >> shambles, the military is not to be trusted, the mainstream communist >> parties are a joke, and India's democracy is only nominal. >> >> Who would want to live in Arundhati Roy's India? Who would even want to >> read about Arundhati Roy's India? The government of India has many faults, >> but even Roy has to admit that living in this country isn't entirely >> intolerable. Confronted with the relentlessly bleak picture she paints, >> one >> in which the only good guys are murderers and mercenaries, who can blame >> middle India for retreating into their iPods and tabloid newspapers? >> >> >> Roy has important things to say, but her tone and bluster ensure the only >> people listening are those who already agree with her. She is preaching to >> the converted. To the left-leaning publications of the west, she is an >> articulate, intelligent voice explaining the problems with 21st-century >> India. For the university lefties in India, she confirms their worst fears >> of a nation falling apart. But to any intelligent readers who may be >> sitting >> on the fence or for anyone from middle-class India taking their first >> tentative steps towards greater political involvement, her polemic serves >> to >> terrify and alienate. >> >> >> As Salil Tripathi writes over at the Index on Censorship blog, "Initially >> her dissent was seen as admirable, then as a novelty, and now her view is >> largely marginalised." This week's shenanigans prove that debate about >> Arundhati Roy is, as ever, thriving. But her writing is rapidly becoming >> irrelevant in Indian public discourse. >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajkamal From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 00:43:45 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:43:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Social_status_doesn=92t_give_immun?= =?windows-1252?q?ity_to_fiction-writer_Arundhati_Roy?= Message-ID: *Social status doesn’t give immunity to Arundhati* November 04, 2010 12:46:47 AM *Amitabh Thakur* *Just because Arundhati Roy is hailed as intellectual, law must not be misinterpreted to legalize her act of sedition. Because no law permits such transgression wrapped in pleas and rhetoric where its very foundation is questioned* Arundhati Roy needs no introduction in India or abroad. A Booker Prize winner, she has over the period emerged as a social activist who has her own perspectives and thoughts on many pertinent issues. More often than not, these views get into lots of controversy. There are people who say that these controversies turn into an advantage for Arundhati Roy, who always comes up with larger number of fans and followers in the aftermath of each such controversy. Possibly following the same thing, in a meeting on Kashmir called “Azadi — The Only Way” organised in LTG Auditorium, New Delhi, on October 21, she along with SAR Geelani and Syed Ali Shah Geelani spoke words which clearly come in the purview of sedition. She said, “Kashmir should get *azadi *from *bhookhey-nangey * Hindustan … India needs *azadi *from Kashmir and Kashmir from India. It is a good debate that has started. We must deepen this conversation and am happy that young people are getting involved for this cause, which is their future.” Similarly at a seminar on “Wither Kashmir: Freedom or enslavement” held in Srinagar Arundhati Roy said, “Kashmir has never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact. Even the Indian Government has accepted this.” Now, we all know that Article 19(1)(a) of our Constitution provides right to freedom of speech and expression to all its citizen but at the same time Article 19(2) imposes reasonable restrictions on the exercise of the right conferred by the said subclause in the interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of the State etc. Similarly, section 121, 121A and 124A of the Indian Penal Code talk of waging, or attempting to wage war, or abetting waging of war, against the Government of India and also about sedition. Sedition is very clearly defined as an act “by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise” bringing or attempting to bring into hatred or contempt, or exciting or attempting to excite disaffection towards the Government established by law in India. So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In fact, Article 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we are duty bound to follow them. In case anyone of us have views divergent to the above laws, we only have two options — either to get them amended in the Parliament or to get them stuck down in the Court. None of these has been done and hence it becomes the duty of a citizen to follow them in letter and spirit. Or to face the legal consequences when we violate it. There is not much genius required to understand this, this is simple logic. Yes, we all have the right as human beings to have certain opinions and views and also to firmly believe in them but when it comes to expressing these views in the public domain, each one of us has to adhere to the law of the land. There exists the paramountcy of law, as long as it exists in a given format and no one, including Arundhati Roy can be considered to be above law. And when the matter is related with the basic integrity and unity of the nation, the seriousness of the matter increases manifold. This is important because any laxity or relaxation on this account might act as a motivating factor and precedence to others to take law in their own hands, to the extent of playing with the nation’s very basic foundations. The situation becomes all the more serious when the persons committing the crime are considered among the respected members of the society and claim to be intellectuals and thinkers in their own way. I don’t need to explain why the words quoted above as being that of Arundhati Roy fall under the purview of sedition. Can one think of any nation which would allow open talks of its own dismemberment? When the very basic foundation and existence of the country is lost, how can it cater to its other required duties? So, just because Arundhati Roy is a celebrity and has widely been hailed as an intellectual, do her illegal and unconstitutional words become legalised? After the matter became hotly discussed, Arundhati Roy is quoted to have said that she said what millions of people here say every day. She says that her speeches are fundamentally a call for justice and that she “spoke about justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal military occupations in the world”. She also blames someone (presumably India) in the following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice”. But do all these pleas and rhetoric make a crime, as defined in a law book, as something else? Which law would permit such a transgression where it’s very foundations are questioned? And if a person still feels that what he or she is speaking is true, then another thing shall happen simultaneously — the code of law shall be imposed in the most impassioned, efficient and value-neutral manner, without thinking twice about who it is that is violating the law. This is the basic criteria and definition of law that we all understand and adhere to. --*The writer, presently on study leave at IIM Lucknow, is an IPS officers of UP Cadre. Link - http://www.dailypioneer.com/294261/Social-status-doesn%E2%80%99t-give-immunity-to-Arundhati.html * From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 01:01:59 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:01:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Social_status_doesn=92t_give_immun?= =?windows-1252?q?ity_to_fiction-writer_Arundhati_Roy?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Aditya, "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In fact, Article 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we are duty bound to follow them. ......" The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or Mr. Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which it is being used? I would reserve my critique of the article till then. Thanks Rajkamal From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 01:03:36 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:03:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Social_status_doesn=92t_give_immun?= =?windows-1252?q?ity_to_fiction-writer_Arundhati_Roy?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I say "these words" in my previous mail, I mean the words that I highlighted. thanks Rajkamal On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In > fact, Article > 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even > in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as > being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we > are > duty bound to follow them. ......" > > The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or Mr. > Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which it > is being used? > > I would reserve my critique of the article till then. > > Thanks > Rajkamal > > > -- Rajkamal From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 01:24:23 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:24:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Social_status_doesn=92t_give_immun?= =?windows-1252?q?ity_to_fiction-writer_Arundhati_Roy?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mr Thakur writes: "She also blames someone (presumably India) in the following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice”. Haven't we been presuming a lot of things recently about people and passing judgments? Even I have been doing so. I feel guilty. From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Nov 4 01:35:29 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 01:35:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <13916c1e7c59e56f6a4443e126577733@mail.sarai.net> Dear Mr. Wangoo, I am not the moderator of the list, but I am aware of how this list works, and electronic discussion lists in general function. When you get a message from the list-bot such as ( which is a software programme not a human being) saying that your "Message has implicit destination" it occurs because - of a simple oversight on the part of the sender, such as a person not filling in the To or CC fields of the message. For more on this see http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030676 Please do us the favour of refraining from imagining that this list 'censors' the kind of right-wing trash that you and your friends regularly send on to the list. No, every piece of garbage that is sent to this list is archived, so that decades from now we can laugh (or sigh) at the madness, lies and calumny that you all put us through, and that we all suffer, patiently. best, Shuddha (your fellow list member) On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:57:45 +0530 Khaqsar Wangoo wrote > Any Reason why Free Speech is being moderated at SARAI now ? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM > Subject: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator approval > To: veeruz at gmail.com > > > Your mail to 'reader-list' with the subject > > Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Message has implicit destination > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/confirm/reader-list/2a7d195eab3113d55ddb4a923c > 381eae1c08d973 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From agora158 at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 04:38:33 2010 From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:08:33 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: <737784.94317.qm@web113203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> <737784.94317.qm@web113203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you dear Shudda for your kind letter! I agree with you and others about the need to widen the reach of this list, I feel than many topics you discuss about India today are the same topics we discussed when I was young in South America in the 70:s. Freedom of expression is not only a right but it's also a responsability and I think we should be careful and remember the words of the German priest Martin Niemöller. He wrote: "When they come for the communists I didn't react I was not a communist When they took the tradeunionsleaders I didn't react I was not a tradeunionist They come for the catholics I didn't react I was not a catholic When they come for me it was nobody who could speak for me"- (I quote Niemöller from memory now, I think the poem was much more detailed :( I am not for or against what Arundathi Roy say, I don't have any knowledge in the matter. But I defend her right to express her opinions without attracting a ,mob who vandalize her house. Best Ana On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:53 PM, francesca recchia wrote: > Dear Shudda and all > > Thank you very much for your messages. I very much appreciated that voices > who > are generally quieter felt the need to reply - there is a diversity in the > list > that is worth ackonwledging and giving value to. > > The question of freedom of expression is an interesting one. It is a > subject > very dear to me - last May I tried to organise a public debate on this > subject > in Iraqi Kurdistan and was denied the autorisation. > Still I feel the need of questioning what freedom of speech actually means. > And > what is the role of individual responsability in excercising such freedom. > I am > not talking about self-censorship, but rather about respect and "good > manners" > (however old fashion this might sound). > > Thanks > Francesca > > > > > francesca recchia > kiccovich at yahoo.com > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "shuddha at sarai.net" > To: sarai ; francesca recchia > Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 17:04:16 > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort > > Dear Francesca, > > Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on seeing > this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character > assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of people > on > this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of decency on > more than one occasion. > > I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, > unfortunately, > this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I completely > disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively on > this > list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their > speech > acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, like > all > those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, and > about > a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, dominate > the > tone and character of the list. > > My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the > list, to > reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and > strange > and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts may > find a > reflection in this sapce, so that the efforts of an aggressive minority to > monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. > > If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, to > demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and > spread > poison. > > I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, > > best, > > Shuddha > > On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia < > kiccovich at yahoo.com> > wrote > > > Dear all > > > > > > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to > > discuss > > about the list with different people from different contexts in different > > places. > > > > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list > offers > > are > > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately > often > > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and > > dismissive attitude. > > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, but > > this > > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. > > > > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once > in a > > > > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from doing > so. > > > > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very > interesting > > to > > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > > > > Warmly > > francesca > > francesca recchia > > kiccovich at yahoo.com > > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci From veeruz at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 06:49:16 2010 From: veeruz at gmail.com (Khaqsar Wangoo) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 06:49:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] My Wings of Fire ( Reply To Shudha ji ) Message-ID: Dear Shudha ji, Almighty didn't give me the privelege to have wings ( left or Right ),so labelling me as Rightists would be challenging his wisdom. Being leftist or centrist is again a misnormer. Will stone pelting make me centrist moderate or wielding gun make me leftist. A Refugee in his own nation has no ideology but a yearing to undo the past and wish to return to his homeland. You may laugh at it now... why r u waiting for future archives. I have archived my 7 exoduses at Breif History of Kashmir http://koshur.blogspot.com . Plz laugh at that archive. My question was a simple one but your reaction was complex one with a sense of heart burn against my so called friends even. Man becomes a militant thrologist with a Narcissist (no spell check ) ideology whenever he thinks that other person is writing or saying THRASH. Plz abstain SHUDHA ( the pure ). I regret that SARAI would like to listen only to the people who subscribe to Leftis Moist Islamic militant ideology only rather than simple humanistic view. My Wings of Fire are yet to be unleashed on Sarai , please don't panic but collaborate on a healthy debate. Regards, Khaqsar Wangoo On 11/4/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > Arundhati Roy (Aditya Raj Kaul) > 2. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > Arundhati Roy (Rajkamal Goswami) > 3. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > Arundhati Roy (Rajkamal Goswami) > 4. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > Arundhati Roy (anupam chakravartty) > 5. Re: Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator > approval (shuddha at sarai.net) > 6. Re: discomfort (Ana Valdés) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:43:45 +0530 > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > *Social status doesn’t give immunity to Arundhati* > November 04, 2010 12:46:47 AM > > *Amitabh Thakur* > > *Just because Arundhati Roy is hailed as intellectual, law must not be > misinterpreted to legalize her act of sedition. Because no law permits such > transgression wrapped in pleas and rhetoric where its very foundation is > questioned* > > Arundhati Roy needs no introduction in India or abroad. A Booker Prize > winner, she has over the period emerged as a social activist who has her own > perspectives and thoughts on many pertinent issues. More often than not, > these views get into lots of controversy. There are people who say that > these controversies turn into an advantage for Arundhati Roy, who always > comes up with larger number of fans and followers in the aftermath of each > such controversy. > > Possibly following the same thing, in a meeting on Kashmir called “Azadi — > The Only Way” organised in LTG Auditorium, New Delhi, on October 21, she > along with SAR Geelani and Syed Ali Shah Geelani spoke words which clearly > come in the purview of sedition. She said, “Kashmir should get *azadi *from > *bhookhey-nangey * Hindustan … India needs *azadi *from Kashmir and Kashmir > from India. It is a good debate that has started. We must deepen this > conversation and am happy that young people are getting involved for this > cause, which is their future.” Similarly at a seminar on “Wither Kashmir: > Freedom or enslavement” held in Srinagar Arundhati Roy said, “Kashmir has > never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact. Even the > Indian Government has accepted this.” > > Now, we all know that Article 19(1)(a) of our Constitution provides right to > freedom of speech and expression to all its citizen but at the same time > Article 19(2) imposes reasonable restrictions on the exercise of the right > conferred by the said subclause in the interests of the sovereignty and > integrity of India, the security of the State etc. Similarly, section 121, > 121A and 124A of the Indian Penal Code talk of waging, or attempting to wage > war, or abetting waging of war, against the Government of India and also > about sedition. Sedition is very clearly defined as an act “by words, either > spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise” > bringing or attempting to bring into hatred or contempt, or exciting or > attempting to excite disaffection towards the Government established by law > in India. > > So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In fact, Article > 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even > in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as > being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we are > duty bound to follow them. In case anyone of us have views divergent to the > above laws, we only have two options — either to get them amended in the > Parliament or to get them stuck down in the Court. None of these has been > done and hence it becomes the duty of a citizen to follow them in letter and > spirit. Or to face the legal consequences when we violate it. There is not > much genius required to understand this, this is simple logic. > > Yes, we all have the right as human beings to have certain opinions and > views and also to firmly believe in them but when it comes to expressing > these views in the public domain, each one of us has to adhere to the law of > the land. There exists the paramountcy of law, as long as it exists in a > given format and no one, including Arundhati Roy can be considered to be > above law. And when the matter is related with the basic integrity and unity > of the nation, the seriousness of the matter increases manifold. This is > important because any laxity or relaxation on this account might act as a > motivating factor and precedence to others to take law in their own hands, > to the extent of playing with the nation’s very basic foundations. The > situation becomes all the more serious when the persons committing the crime > are considered among the respected members of the society and claim to be > intellectuals and thinkers in their own way. > > I don’t need to explain why the words quoted above as being that of > Arundhati Roy fall under the purview of sedition. Can one think of any > nation which would allow open talks of its own dismemberment? When the very > basic foundation and existence of the country is lost, how can it cater to > its other required duties? So, just because Arundhati Roy is a celebrity and > has widely been hailed as an intellectual, do her illegal and > unconstitutional words become legalised? > > After the matter became hotly discussed, Arundhati Roy is quoted to have > said that she said what millions of people here say every day. She says that > her speeches are fundamentally a call for justice and that she “spoke about > justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal > military occupations in the world”. She also blames someone (presumably > India) in the following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its > writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those > who ask for justice”. > > But do all these pleas and rhetoric make a crime, as defined in a law book, > as something else? Which law would permit such a transgression where it’s > very foundations are questioned? And if a person still feels that what he or > she is speaking is true, then another thing shall happen simultaneously — > the code of law shall be imposed in the most impassioned, efficient and > value-neutral manner, without thinking twice about who it is that is > violating the law. This is the basic criteria and definition of law that we > all understand and adhere to. > > --*The writer, presently on study leave at IIM Lucknow, is an IPS officers > of UP Cadre. > > Link - > http://www.dailypioneer.com/294261/Social-status-doesn%E2%80%99t-give-immunity-to-Arundhati.html > * > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:01:59 +0530 > From: Rajkamal Goswami > To: Aditya Raj Kaul > Cc: sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear Aditya, > > "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In > fact, Article > 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even > in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as > being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we are > duty bound to follow them. ......" > > The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or Mr. > Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which it > is being used? > > I would reserve my critique of the article till then. > > Thanks > Rajkamal > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:03:36 +0530 > From: Rajkamal Goswami > To: Aditya Raj Kaul > Cc: sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > When I say "these words" in my previous mail, I mean the words that I > highlighted. > > thanks > Rajkamal > > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Rajkamal Goswami > wrote: > >> Dear Aditya, >> >> "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In >> fact, Article >> 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even >> in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as >> being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we >> are >> duty bound to follow them. ......" >> >> The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or Mr. >> Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which it >> is being used? >> >> I would reserve my critique of the article till then. >> >> Thanks >> Rajkamal >> >> >> > > > -- > Rajkamal > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:24:23 +0530 > From: anupam chakravartty > To: Rajkamal Goswami , sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Mr Thakur writes: "She also blames someone (presumably India) in the > following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for > speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for > justice”. > > Haven't we been presuming a lot of things recently about people and passing > judgments? Even I have been doing so. I feel guilty. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 01:35:29 +0530 > From: "shuddha at sarai.net" > To: , Khaqsar Wangoo > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits > moderator approval > Message-ID: <13916c1e7c59e56f6a4443e126577733 at mail.sarai.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=fixed > > Dear Mr. Wangoo, > > I am not the moderator of the list, but I am aware of how this list works, > and > electronic discussion lists in general function. When you get a message from > the list-bot such as ( which is a software > programme not a human being) saying that your "Message has implicit > destination" > > it occurs because - of a simple oversight on the part of the sender, such as > a > person not filling in the To or CC fields of the message. > > For more on this see > > http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030676 > > Please do us the favour of refraining from imagining that this list > 'censors' > the kind of right-wing trash that you and your friends regularly send on to > the > list. No, every piece of garbage that is sent to this list is archived, so > that > decades from now we can laugh (or sigh) at the madness, lies and calumny > that > you all put us through, and that we all suffer, patiently. > > best, > > Shuddha (your fellow list member) > > > On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:57:45 +0530 Khaqsar Wangoo wrote > >> Any Reason why Free Speech is being moderated at SARAI now ? >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: >> Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM >> Subject: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator approval >> To: veeruz at gmail.com >> >> >> Your mail to 'reader-list' with the subject >> >> Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches >> >> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. >> >> The reason it is being held: >> >> Message has implicit destination >> >> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive >> notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel >> this posting, please visit the following URL: >> >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/confirm/reader-list/2a7d195eab3113d55ddb4a923c >> 381eae1c08d973 >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:08:33 +0100 > From: Ana Valdés > To: francesca recchia > Cc: sarai > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Thank you dear Shudda for your kind letter! I agree with you and others > about the need to widen the reach of this list, I feel than many topics you > discuss about India today are the same topics we discussed when I was young > in South America in the 70:s. > Freedom of expression is not only a right but it's also a responsability and > I think we should be careful and remember the words of the German priest > Martin Niemöller. > He wrote: > "When they come for the communists I didn't react > I was not a communist > When they took the tradeunionsleaders I didn't react > I was not a tradeunionist > They come for the catholics I didn't react > I was not a catholic > When they come for me > it was nobody who could speak for me"- > > (I quote Niemöller from memory now, I think the poem was much more detailed > :( > > I am not for or against what Arundathi Roy say, I don't have any knowledge > in the matter. But I defend her right to express her opinions without > attracting a ,mob who vandalize her house. > > > Best > Ana > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:53 PM, francesca recchia > wrote: > >> Dear Shudda and all >> >> Thank you very much for your messages. I very much appreciated that voices >> who >> are generally quieter felt the need to reply - there is a diversity in the >> list >> that is worth ackonwledging and giving value to. >> >> The question of freedom of expression is an interesting one. It is a >> subject >> very dear to me - last May I tried to organise a public debate on this >> subject >> in Iraqi Kurdistan and was denied the autorisation. >> Still I feel the need of questioning what freedom of speech actually >> means. >> And >> what is the role of individual responsability in excercising such freedom. >> I am >> not talking about self-censorship, but rather about respect and "good >> manners" >> (however old fashion this might sound). >> >> Thanks >> Francesca >> >> >> >> >> francesca recchia >> kiccovich at yahoo.com >> it +39 338 166 3648 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "shuddha at sarai.net" >> To: sarai ; francesca recchia >> Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 17:04:16 >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort >> >> Dear Francesca, >> >> Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on >> seeing >> this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character >> assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of people >> on >> this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of decency >> on >> more than one occasion. >> >> I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, >> unfortunately, >> this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I >> completely >> disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively on >> this >> list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their >> speech >> acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, like >> all >> those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, and >> about >> a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, dominate >> the >> tone and character of the list. >> >> My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the >> list, to >> reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and >> strange >> and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts may >> find a >> reflection in this sapce, so that the efforts of an aggressive minority >> to >> monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. >> >> If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, to >> demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and >> spread >> poison. >> >> I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, >> >> best, >> >> Shuddha >> >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia < >> kiccovich at yahoo.com> >> wrote >> >> > Dear all >> > >> > >> > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to >> > discuss >> > about the list with different people from different contexts in >> > different >> > places. >> > >> > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list >> offers >> > are >> > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately >> often >> > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and >> > dismissive attitude. >> > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, >> > but >> > this >> > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. >> > >> > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once >> in a >> > >> > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from >> > doing >> so. >> > >> > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very >> interesting >> > to >> > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) >> > >> > Warmly >> > francesca >> > francesca recchia >> > kiccovich at yahoo.com >> > it +39 338 166 3648 >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > > -- > http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > http://www.crusading.se > Gondolgatan 2 l tr > 12832 Skarpnäck > Sweden > tel +468-943288 > mobil 4670-3213370 > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your > eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long > to return. > — Leonardo da Vinci > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 21 > ******************************************* > -- Sent from my mobile device From veeruz at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 07:16:15 2010 From: veeruz at gmail.com (Khaqsar Wangoo) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 07:16:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khaqsar Wangoo Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:53:19 +0530 Subject: Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches To: Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches Press Trust of India, Updated: November 03, 2010 17:11 IST NDTV - http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/court-asks-for-report-on-geelani-arundhati-speeches-64269 New Delhi: A Delhi court on Wednesday asked the city police to file a report on a complaint seeking prosecution of hardline Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani and writer Arundhati Roy on the charges of sedition for their alleged anti-India statements. "The Station House Officer of the concerned police station is directed to file a status report on November 16," Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said. Earlier, Vikas Padora, counsel for complainant, Sushil Pandit, submitted that the prima facie case of sedition was made out against the accused as they had openly challenged the integrity and the authority of Government of India . "Being a citizen of this country, the complainant is duly empowered by the Constitution to seek registration of an FIR against the accused persons for various offences against the nation," Padora argued. The complaint, filed under section 156 (3)of CrPC, seeks either registration of an FIR or a direction to the police to file a report after probing their alleged anti-India statements at a seminar here. It was alleged that as the government had miserably failed to initiate any action against the "culprits" of the anti-India seminar, a private complaint against them has been filed. Besides Geelani and Roy, the complaint also seeks prosecution of five others, including Delhi University professor S A R Geelani, who was acquitted in Parliament attack case, and Sheikh Showkat Hussain, a professor of Jammu and Kashmir University. Hurriyat leader Geelani had shared the dais with Roy and pro-Maoist leader Vara Vara Rao among others during the convention, 'Azadi-The Only Way.' -- Sent from my mobile device From rama.sangye at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 08:33:05 2010 From: rama.sangye at gmail.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 08:33:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] P Lal passes away In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Calcutta lost one of her illustrious sons yesterday, when Purushottam Lal, teacher of literature, poet, writer, trans-creator and publisher, passed away, at the age of 81. A magnetic personality, he had inspired generations of students, poets and writers. He represented the best of Calcutta's cosmopolitanism and intellectual vitality. He shall be deeply missed, and Calcutta will never be the same again. VR From sanjaykhak at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 11:25:22 2010 From: sanjaykhak at gmail.com (Sanjay Khak) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:25:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Court asks cops to file report on Arundhati Roy Message-ID: *Court asks cops to file report on Arundhati* November 04, 2010 11:28:17 AM *Shikha Verma | New Delhi* A city court on Wednesday directed Delhi Police to file a status report on a complaint filed against Hurriyat Leader SAS Geelani, author-turned-activist Arundhati Roy and others on the charges of sedition and for their hate speech against India in the Capital on October 21. “The Tilak Marg Station House Officer (SHO) is directed to file a status report on November 16,” Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said. Complainant Sushil Pandit submitted that in the “derogatory” speeches, the accused had claimed that Kashmir was never part of India. *Prima facie*, a case of sedition was made out against the accused as they had “openly challenged the integrity and the authority” of the Government of India, Pandit’s counsel said. “It is a case of invoking hatred, breach of peace and disaffection towards the Govern-ment. Being a citizen of this country, the complainant is duly empowered by the Constitution to seek registration of an FIR against the accused,” he argued. The SHO has to submit in the status report as to whether the complainant had approached the police earlier with a complaint and what action did the police take on it. The complaint alleged that as the Government had “miserably failed” to initiate any action against the “culprits”. The counsel said, “In the session, Arundhati Roy apparently pointed toward imaginary Kashmiris and said: ‘*Bhookha nanga Hindustan aapke sath hai’*. She made provocative, anti-national and mischievous statements that were clearly intended to cause public disorder and uproar in Kashmir and other parts of India. She said, ‘Not only does Kashmir want *azadi* from India, India also wants * azadi* from Kashmir’.” Besides Geelani, Parliament attack convict (later acquitted) Prof SAR Geelani and Roy, the complaint also sought prosecution of four others, including Jammu & Kashmir University prof Sheikh Showkat Hussain, pro-Maoist writer Varavara Rao, APDR activist Sujato Bhadra and self-styled media critic Shuddhabrata Sengupta. From samvitr at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 11:28:47 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:28:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] My Wings of Fire ( Reply To Shudha ji ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It seems like a typical case of Khisyanee billi khamba nochee with people like Shuddha. They do not want to listen to anyone and have already proclaimed themselves to be the Messiah of the masses. If others put in their thoughts it is regarded as "right wing trash" and "garbage". And if he speaks it becomes the Gospel truth which everyone has to mandatorily agree with. I think this is a place where everyone should put his/her views and when people differ they can answer in a dignified manner. There are times when people use verbiage as a euphemism for certain things to put across a point and that should not be treated with disdain. -SR On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Khaqsar Wangoo wrote: > Dear Shudha ji, > > Almighty didn't give me the privelege to have wings ( left or Right > ),so labelling me as Rightists would be challenging his wisdom. > > Being leftist or centrist is again a misnormer. Will stone pelting > make me centrist moderate or wielding gun make me leftist. > > A Refugee in his own nation has no ideology but a yearing to undo the > past and wish to return to his homeland. > > You may laugh at it now... why r u waiting for future archives. I have > archived my 7 exoduses at Breif History of Kashmir > http://koshur.blogspot.com . Plz laugh at that archive. > > My question was a simple one but your reaction was complex one with a > sense of heart burn against my so called friends even. Man becomes a > militant thrologist with a Narcissist (no spell check ) ideology > whenever he thinks that other person is writing or saying THRASH. Plz > abstain SHUDHA ( the pure ). > > I regret that SARAI would like to listen only to the people who > subscribe to Leftis Moist Islamic militant ideology only rather than > simple humanistic view. > > My Wings of Fire are yet to be unleashed on Sarai , please don't panic > but collaborate on a healthy debate. > > Regards, > > Khaqsar Wangoo > > > > > > On 11/4/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote: >> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to >>       reader-list at sarai.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>       https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>       reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >>       reader-list-owner at sarai.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>    1. Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer >>       Arundhati Roy (Aditya Raj Kaul) >>    2. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer >>       Arundhati Roy (Rajkamal Goswami) >>    3. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer >>       Arundhati Roy (Rajkamal Goswami) >>    4. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer >>       Arundhati Roy (anupam chakravartty) >>    5. Re: Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator >>       approval (shuddha at sarai.net) >>    6. Re: discomfort (Ana Valdés) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:43:45 +0530 >> From: Aditya Raj Kaul >> To: sarai list >> Subject: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to >>       fiction-writer Arundhati Roy >> Message-ID: >>       >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> *Social status doesn’t give immunity to Arundhati* >> November 04, 2010   12:46:47 AM >> >> *Amitabh Thakur* >> >> *Just because Arundhati Roy is hailed as intellectual, law must not be >> misinterpreted to legalize her act of sedition. Because no law permits such >> transgression wrapped in pleas and rhetoric where its very foundation is >> questioned* >> >> Arundhati Roy needs no introduction in India or abroad. A Booker Prize >> winner, she has over the period emerged as a social activist who has her own >> perspectives and thoughts on many pertinent issues. More often than not, >> these views get into lots of controversy. There are people who say that >> these controversies turn into an advantage for Arundhati Roy, who always >> comes up with larger number of fans and followers in the aftermath of each >> such controversy. >> >> Possibly following the same thing, in a meeting on Kashmir called “Azadi — >> The Only Way” organised in LTG Auditorium, New Delhi, on October 21, she >> along with SAR Geelani and Syed Ali Shah Geelani spoke words which clearly >> come in the purview of sedition. She said, “Kashmir should get *azadi *from >> *bhookhey-nangey * Hindustan … India needs *azadi *from Kashmir and Kashmir >> from India. It is a good debate that has started. We must deepen this >> conversation and am happy that young people are getting involved for this >> cause, which is their future.” Similarly at a seminar on “Wither Kashmir: >> Freedom or enslavement” held in Srinagar Arundhati Roy said, “Kashmir has >> never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact. Even the >> Indian Government has accepted this.” >> >> Now, we all know that Article 19(1)(a) of our Constitution provides right to >> freedom of speech and expression to all its citizen but at the same time >> Article 19(2) imposes reasonable restrictions on the exercise of the right >> conferred by the said subclause in the interests of the sovereignty and >> integrity of India, the security of the State etc. Similarly, section 121, >> 121A and 124A of the Indian Penal Code talk of waging, or attempting to wage >> war, or abetting waging of war, against the Government of India and also >> about sedition. Sedition is very clearly defined as an act “by words, either >> spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise” >> bringing or attempting to bring into hatred or contempt, or exciting or >> attempting to excite disaffection towards the Government established by law >> in India. >> >> So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In fact, Article >> 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even >> in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as >> being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we are >> duty bound to follow them. In case anyone of us have views divergent to the >> above laws, we only have two options — either to get them amended in the >> Parliament or to get them stuck down in the Court. None of these has been >> done and hence it becomes the duty of a citizen to follow them in letter and >> spirit. Or to face the legal consequences when we violate it. There is not >> much genius required to understand this, this is simple logic. >> >> Yes, we all have the right as human beings to have certain opinions and >> views and also to firmly believe in them but when it comes to expressing >> these views in the public domain, each one of us has to adhere to the law of >> the land. There exists the paramountcy of law, as long as it exists in a >> given format and no one, including Arundhati Roy can be considered to be >> above law. And when the matter is related with the basic integrity and unity >> of the nation, the seriousness of the matter increases manifold. This is >> important because any laxity or relaxation on this account might act as a >> motivating factor and precedence to others to take law in their own hands, >> to the extent of playing with the nation’s very basic foundations. The >> situation becomes all the more serious when the persons committing the crime >> are considered among the respected members of the society and claim to be >> intellectuals and thinkers in their own way. >> >> I don’t need to explain why the words quoted above as being that of >> Arundhati Roy fall under the purview of sedition. Can one think of any >> nation which would allow open talks of its own dismemberment? When the very >> basic foundation and existence of the country is lost, how can it cater to >> its other required duties? So, just because Arundhati Roy is a celebrity and >> has widely been hailed as an intellectual, do her illegal and >> unconstitutional words become legalised? >> >> After the matter became hotly discussed, Arundhati Roy is quoted to have >> said that she said what millions of people here say every day. She says that >> her speeches are fundamentally a call for justice and that she “spoke about >> justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal >> military occupations in the world”. She also blames someone (presumably >> India) in the following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its >> writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those >> who ask for justice”. >> >> But do all these pleas and rhetoric make a crime, as defined in a law book, >> as something else? Which law would permit such a transgression where it’s >> very foundations are questioned? And if a person still feels that what he or >> she is speaking is true, then another thing shall happen simultaneously — >> the code of law shall be imposed in the most impassioned, efficient and >> value-neutral manner, without thinking twice about who it is that is >> violating the law. This is the basic criteria and definition of law that we >> all understand and adhere to. >> >> --*The writer, presently on study leave at IIM Lucknow, is an IPS officers >> of UP Cadre. >> >> Link - >> http://www.dailypioneer.com/294261/Social-status-doesn%E2%80%99t-give-immunity-to-Arundhati.html >> * >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:01:59 +0530 >> From: Rajkamal Goswami >> To: Aditya Raj Kaul >> Cc: sarai list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to >>       fiction-writer Arundhati Roy >> Message-ID: >>       >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In >> fact, Article >> 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even >> in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as >> being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we are >> duty bound to follow them. ......" >> >> The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or Mr. >> Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which it >> is being used? >> >> I would reserve my critique of the article till then. >> >> Thanks >> Rajkamal >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:03:36 +0530 >> From: Rajkamal Goswami >> To: Aditya Raj Kaul >> Cc: sarai list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to >>       fiction-writer Arundhati Roy >> Message-ID: >>       >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> When I say "these words" in my previous mail, I mean the words that I >> highlighted. >> >> thanks >> Rajkamal >> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Rajkamal Goswami >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Aditya, >>> >>> "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In >>> fact, Article >>> 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times even >>> in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as >>> being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we >>> are >>> duty bound to follow them. ......" >>> >>> The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or Mr. >>> Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which it >>> is being used? >>> >>> I would reserve my critique of the article till then. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Rajkamal >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rajkamal >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:24:23 +0530 >> From: anupam chakravartty >> To: Rajkamal Goswami ,     sarai list >>       >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to >>       fiction-writer Arundhati Roy >> Message-ID: >>       >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> Mr Thakur writes: "She also blames someone (presumably India) in the >> following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for >> speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for >> justice”. >> >> Haven't we been presuming a lot of things recently about people and passing >> judgments? Even I have been doing so. I feel guilty. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 01:35:29 +0530 >> From: "shuddha at sarai.net" >> To: , Khaqsar Wangoo >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits >>       moderator       approval >> Message-ID: <13916c1e7c59e56f6a4443e126577733 at mail.sarai.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=fixed >> >> Dear Mr. Wangoo, >> >> I am not the moderator of the list, but I am aware of how this list works, >> and >> electronic discussion lists in general function. When you get a message from >> the list-bot such as ( which is a software >> programme not a human being) saying that your "Message has implicit >> destination" >> >> it occurs because - of a simple oversight on the part of the sender, such as >> a >> person not filling in the To or CC fields of the message. >> >> For more on this see >> >> http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030676 >> >> Please do us the favour of refraining from imagining that this list >> 'censors' >> the kind of right-wing trash that you and your friends regularly send on to >> the >> list. No, every piece of garbage that is sent to this list is archived, so >> that >> decades from now we can laugh (or sigh) at the madness, lies and calumny >> that >> you all put us through, and that we all suffer, patiently. >> >> best, >> >> Shuddha (your fellow list member) >> >> >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:57:45 +0530 Khaqsar Wangoo wrote >> >>> Any Reason why Free Speech is being moderated at SARAI now ? >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: >>> Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM >>> Subject: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator approval >>> To: veeruz at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> Your mail to 'reader-list' with the subject >>> >>>    Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches >>> >>> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. >>> >>> The reason it is being held: >>> >>>    Message has implicit destination >>> >>> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive >>> notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel >>> this posting, please visit the following URL: >>> >>> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/confirm/reader-list/2a7d195eab3113d55ddb4a923c >>> 381eae1c08d973 >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:08:33 +0100 >> From: Ana Valdés >> To: francesca recchia >> Cc: sarai >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort >> Message-ID: >>       >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> Thank you dear Shudda for your kind letter! I agree with you and others >> about the need to widen the reach of this list, I feel than many topics you >> discuss about India today are the same topics we discussed when I was young >> in South America in the 70:s. >> Freedom of expression is not only a right but it's also a responsability and >> I think we should be careful and remember the words of the German priest >> Martin Niemöller. >> He wrote: >> "When they come for the communists I didn't react >> I was not a communist >> When they took the tradeunionsleaders I didn't react >> I was not a tradeunionist >> They come for the catholics I didn't react >> I was not a catholic >> When they come for me >> it was nobody who could speak for me"- >> >> (I quote Niemöller from memory now, I think the poem was much more detailed >> :( >> >> I am not for or against what Arundathi Roy say, I don't have any knowledge >> in the matter. But I defend her right to express her opinions without >> attracting a ,mob who vandalize her house. >> >> >> Best >> Ana >> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:53 PM, francesca recchia >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Shudda and all >>> >>> Thank you very much for your messages. I very much appreciated that voices >>> who >>> are generally quieter felt the need to reply - there is a diversity in the >>> list >>> that is worth ackonwledging and giving value to. >>> >>> The question of freedom of expression is an interesting one. It is a >>> subject >>> very dear to me - last May I tried to organise a public debate on this >>> subject >>> in Iraqi Kurdistan and was denied the autorisation. >>> Still I feel the need of questioning what freedom of speech actually >>> means. >>> And >>> what is the role of individual responsability in excercising such freedom. >>> I am >>> not talking about self-censorship, but rather about respect and "good >>> manners" >>> (however old fashion this might sound). >>> >>> Thanks >>> Francesca >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>  francesca recchia >>> kiccovich at yahoo.com >>> it +39 338 166 3648 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: "shuddha at sarai.net" >>> To: sarai ; francesca recchia >>> Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 17:04:16 >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort >>> >>> Dear Francesca, >>> >>> Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on >>> seeing >>> this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character >>> assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of people >>> on >>> this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of decency >>> on >>> more than one occasion. >>> >>> I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, >>> unfortunately, >>> this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I >>> completely >>> disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively on >>> this >>> list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their >>> speech >>> acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, like >>> all >>> those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, and >>> about >>> a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, dominate >>> the >>> tone and character of the list. >>> >>> My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the >>> list, to >>> reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and >>> strange >>> and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts may >>> find a >>> reflection in this sapce,  so that the efforts of an aggressive minority >>> to >>> monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. >>> >>> If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, to >>> demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and >>> spread >>> poison. >>> >>> I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, >>> >>> best, >>> >>> Shuddha >>> >>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia < >>> kiccovich at yahoo.com> >>> wrote >>> >>> > Dear all >>> > >>> > >>> > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to >>> > discuss >>> > about the list with different people from different contexts in >>> > different >>> > places. >>> > >>> > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list >>> offers >>> > are >>> > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately >>> often >>> > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and >>> > dismissive attitude. >>> > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, >>> > but >>> > this >>> > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. >>> > >>> > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every once >>> in a >>> > >>> > while there is the chance of positive engagement  prevented me from >>> > doing >>> so. >>> > >>> > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very >>> interesting >>> > to >>> > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) >>> > >>> > Warmly >>> > francesca >>> > francesca recchia >>> > kiccovich at yahoo.com >>> > it +39 338 166 3648 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> > in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com >> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com >> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com >> http://www.crusading.se >> Gondolgatan 2 l tr >> 12832 Skarpnäck >> Sweden >> tel +468-943288 >> mobil 4670-3213370 >> >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long >> to return. >> — Leonardo da Vinci >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> reader-list mailing list >> reader-list at sarai.net >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 21 >> ******************************************* >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 11:35:58 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:35:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Court asks cops to file report on Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/arundhati-roy-called-a-traitor-for-kashmiri-rights-plea-2117400.html The threat to charge Ms Roy comes after the campaign group, Reporters without Borders, listed India in 122nd place in latest its annual press freedom report. It said the position of the world's largest democracy had slipped 17 places, partly due to the situation in Kashmir where "security forces... sometimes crack down hard on media". Ms Roy last night received the support of English PEN, which campaigns for free expression worldwide. The group's president, Lisa Appignanesi, said: "Since June, Kashmiri journalists and broadcasters attempting to report on unrest in Indian-administered Kashmir have been subject to violence and gagging. Arundhati Roy has now stepped forward to draw the world's attention to the plight of Kashmiris. "The truth of what is happening in Kashmir needs to be told," she said. "Brutality by the state and the silencing of reporters is no option for a modern India." On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Sanjay Khak wrote: > *Court asks cops to file report on Arundhati* > November 04, 2010 11:28:17 AM > > *Shikha Verma | New Delhi* > > A city court on Wednesday directed Delhi Police to file a status report on > a > complaint filed against Hurriyat Leader SAS Geelani, author-turned-activist > Arundhati Roy and others on the charges of sedition and for their hate > speech against India in the Capital on October 21. “The Tilak Marg Station > House Officer (SHO) is directed to file a status report on November 16,” > Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said. > > Complainant Sushil Pandit submitted that in the “derogatory” speeches, the > accused had claimed that Kashmir was never part of India. *Prima facie*, a > case of sedition was made out against the accused as they had “openly > challenged the integrity and the authority” of the Government of India, > Pandit’s counsel said. “It is a case of invoking hatred, breach of peace > and > disaffection towards the Govern-ment. Being a citizen of this country, the > complainant is duly empowered by the Constitution to seek registration of > an > FIR against the accused,” he argued. > > The SHO has to submit in the status report as to whether the complainant > had > approached the police earlier with a complaint and what action did the > police take on it. The complaint alleged that as the Government had > “miserably failed” to initiate any action against the “culprits”. > > The counsel said, “In the session, Arundhati Roy apparently pointed toward > imaginary Kashmiris and said: ‘*Bhookha nanga Hindustan aapke sath hai’*. > She made provocative, anti-national and mischievous statements that were > clearly intended to cause public disorder and uproar in Kashmir and other > parts of India. > > She said, ‘Not only does Kashmir want *azadi* from India, India also wants > * > azadi* from Kashmir’.” > > Besides Geelani, Parliament attack convict (later acquitted) Prof SAR > Geelani and Roy, the complaint also sought prosecution of four others, > including Jammu & Kashmir University prof Sheikh Showkat Hussain, > pro-Maoist > writer Varavara Rao, APDR activist Sujato Bhadra and self-styled media > critic Shuddhabrata Sengupta. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From veeruz at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 12:07:01 2010 From: veeruz at gmail.com (Khaqsar Wangoo) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 12:07:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] My Wings of Fire ( Reply To Shudha ji ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Samvit, Trust me I joined SARAI with lot of optimism but it turned out to be a militant bash/party here. I forgive and forget quickly such incidents. That is my Nature. SARAI in Kashmiri means a place where travelers stay, pilgrims converge, merchants interact and different cultures can compositely co exist with pluralism and multilateral dimensions because cooking place is shared . A modern day Bed and Breakfast cant replace it :):) Was my thought wrong or am I being misled by my so called RIGHTIST friends into SARAI :) ? Should I look for capitalistic five star hotel or should they rename SARAI as MADRASSA ? With Regrets , Khaqsar Wangoo On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Samvit wrote: > It seems like a typical case of Khisyanee billi khamba nochee with > people like Shuddha. They do not want to listen to anyone and have > already proclaimed themselves to be the Messiah of the masses. If > others put in their thoughts it is regarded as "right wing trash" and > "garbage". And if he speaks it becomes the Gospel truth which everyone > has to mandatorily agree with. > I think this is a place where everyone should put his/her views and > when people differ they can answer in a dignified manner. There are > times when people use verbiage as a euphemism for certain things to > put across a point and that should not be treated with disdain. > -SR > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Khaqsar Wangoo wrote: > > Dear Shudha ji, > > > > Almighty didn't give me the privelege to have wings ( left or Right > > ),so labelling me as Rightists would be challenging his wisdom. > > > > Being leftist or centrist is again a misnormer. Will stone pelting > > make me centrist moderate or wielding gun make me leftist. > > > > A Refugee in his own nation has no ideology but a yearing to undo the > > past and wish to return to his homeland. > > > > You may laugh at it now... why r u waiting for future archives. I have > > archived my 7 exoduses at Breif History of Kashmir > > http://koshur.blogspot.com . Plz laugh at that archive. > > > > My question was a simple one but your reaction was complex one with a > > sense of heart burn against my so called friends even. Man becomes a > > militant thrologist with a Narcissist (no spell check ) ideology > > whenever he thinks that other person is writing or saying THRASH. Plz > > abstain SHUDHA ( the pure ). > > > > I regret that SARAI would like to listen only to the people who > > subscribe to Leftis Moist Islamic militant ideology only rather than > > simple humanistic view. > > > > My Wings of Fire are yet to be unleashed on Sarai , please don't panic > > but collaborate on a healthy debate. > > > > Regards, > > > > Khaqsar Wangoo > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/4/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net > wrote: > >> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > >> reader-list at sarai.net > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> reader-list-owner at sarai.net > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > >> Arundhati Roy (Aditya Raj Kaul) > >> 2. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > >> Arundhati Roy (Rajkamal Goswami) > >> 3. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > >> Arundhati Roy (Rajkamal Goswami) > >> 4. Re: Social status doesn’t give immunity to fiction-writer > >> Arundhati Roy (anupam chakravartty) > >> 5. Re: Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator > >> approval (shuddha at sarai.net) > >> 6. Re: discomfort (Ana Valdés) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:43:45 +0530 > >> From: Aditya Raj Kaul > >> To: sarai list > >> Subject: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > >> fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > >> Message-ID: > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > >> > >> *Social status doesn’t give immunity to Arundhati* > >> November 04, 2010 12:46:47 AM > >> > >> *Amitabh Thakur* > >> > >> *Just because Arundhati Roy is hailed as intellectual, law must not be > >> misinterpreted to legalize her act of sedition. Because no law permits > such > >> transgression wrapped in pleas and rhetoric where its very foundation is > >> questioned* > >> > >> Arundhati Roy needs no introduction in India or abroad. A Booker Prize > >> winner, she has over the period emerged as a social activist who has her > own > >> perspectives and thoughts on many pertinent issues. More often than not, > >> these views get into lots of controversy. There are people who say that > >> these controversies turn into an advantage for Arundhati Roy, who always > >> comes up with larger number of fans and followers in the aftermath of > each > >> such controversy. > >> > >> Possibly following the same thing, in a meeting on Kashmir called “Azadi > — > >> The Only Way” organised in LTG Auditorium, New Delhi, on October 21, she > >> along with SAR Geelani and Syed Ali Shah Geelani spoke words which > clearly > >> come in the purview of sedition. She said, “Kashmir should get *azadi > *from > >> *bhookhey-nangey * Hindustan … India needs *azadi *from Kashmir and > Kashmir > >> from India. It is a good debate that has started. We must deepen this > >> conversation and am happy that young people are getting involved for > this > >> cause, which is their future.” Similarly at a seminar on “Wither > Kashmir: > >> Freedom or enslavement” held in Srinagar Arundhati Roy said, “Kashmir > has > >> never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact. Even the > >> Indian Government has accepted this.” > >> > >> Now, we all know that Article 19(1)(a) of our Constitution provides > right to > >> freedom of speech and expression to all its citizen but at the same time > >> Article 19(2) imposes reasonable restrictions on the exercise of the > right > >> conferred by the said subclause in the interests of the sovereignty and > >> integrity of India, the security of the State etc. Similarly, section > 121, > >> 121A and 124A of the Indian Penal Code talk of waging, or attempting to > wage > >> war, or abetting waging of war, against the Government of India and also > >> about sedition. Sedition is very clearly defined as an act “by words, > either > >> spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or > otherwise” > >> bringing or attempting to bring into hatred or contempt, or exciting or > >> attempting to excite disaffection towards the Government established by > law > >> in India. > >> > >> So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In fact, Article > >> 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times > even > >> in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as > >> being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we > are > >> duty bound to follow them. In case anyone of us have views divergent to > the > >> above laws, we only have two options — either to get them amended in the > >> Parliament or to get them stuck down in the Court. None of these has > been > >> done and hence it becomes the duty of a citizen to follow them in letter > and > >> spirit. Or to face the legal consequences when we violate it. There is > not > >> much genius required to understand this, this is simple logic. > >> > >> Yes, we all have the right as human beings to have certain opinions and > >> views and also to firmly believe in them but when it comes to expressing > >> these views in the public domain, each one of us has to adhere to the > law of > >> the land. There exists the paramountcy of law, as long as it exists in a > >> given format and no one, including Arundhati Roy can be considered to be > >> above law. And when the matter is related with the basic integrity and > unity > >> of the nation, the seriousness of the matter increases manifold. This is > >> important because any laxity or relaxation on this account might act as > a > >> motivating factor and precedence to others to take law in their own > hands, > >> to the extent of playing with the nation’s very basic foundations. The > >> situation becomes all the more serious when the persons committing the > crime > >> are considered among the respected members of the society and claim to > be > >> intellectuals and thinkers in their own way. > >> > >> I don’t need to explain why the words quoted above as being that of > >> Arundhati Roy fall under the purview of sedition. Can one think of any > >> nation which would allow open talks of its own dismemberment? When the > very > >> basic foundation and existence of the country is lost, how can it cater > to > >> its other required duties? So, just because Arundhati Roy is a celebrity > and > >> has widely been hailed as an intellectual, do her illegal and > >> unconstitutional words become legalised? > >> > >> After the matter became hotly discussed, Arundhati Roy is quoted to have > >> said that she said what millions of people here say every day. She says > that > >> her speeches are fundamentally a call for justice and that she “spoke > about > >> justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal > >> military occupations in the world”. She also blames someone (presumably > >> India) in the following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its > >> writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail > those > >> who ask for justice”. > >> > >> But do all these pleas and rhetoric make a crime, as defined in a law > book, > >> as something else? Which law would permit such a transgression where > it’s > >> very foundations are questioned? And if a person still feels that what > he or > >> she is speaking is true, then another thing shall happen simultaneously > — > >> the code of law shall be imposed in the most impassioned, efficient and > >> value-neutral manner, without thinking twice about who it is that is > >> violating the law. This is the basic criteria and definition of law that > we > >> all understand and adhere to. > >> > >> --*The writer, presently on study leave at IIM Lucknow, is an IPS > officers > >> of UP Cadre. > >> > >> Link - > >> > http://www.dailypioneer.com/294261/Social-status-doesn%E2%80%99t-give-immunity-to-Arundhati.html > >> * > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:01:59 +0530 > >> From: Rajkamal Goswami > >> To: Aditya Raj Kaul > >> Cc: sarai list > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > >> fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > >> Message-ID: > >> > > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> Dear Aditya, > >> > >> "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In > >> fact, Article > >> 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times > even > >> in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as > >> being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we > are > >> duty bound to follow them. ......" > >> > >> The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or > Mr. > >> Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which > it > >> is being used? > >> > >> I would reserve my critique of the article till then. > >> > >> Thanks > >> Rajkamal > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:03:36 +0530 > >> From: Rajkamal Goswami > >> To: Aditya Raj Kaul > >> Cc: sarai list > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > >> fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > >> Message-ID: > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> When I say "these words" in my previous mail, I mean the words that I > >> highlighted. > >> > >> thanks > >> Rajkamal > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Rajkamal Goswami > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Aditya, > >>> > >>> "..............So far these laws remain very much in force in India. In > >>> fact, Article > >>> 19(2)(a) and section 124A of the IPC has been challenged many a times > even > >>> in the Supreme Court but the highest Court of the land has upheld it as > >>> being constitutional and illegal. Thus, as ordinary citizen of India we > >>> are > >>> duty bound to follow them. ......" > >>> > >>> The words above are from the article that you sent around. Can you (or > Mr. > >>> Thakur, ips) explain the meaning of these words in the context in which > it > >>> is being used? > >>> > >>> I would reserve my critique of the article till then. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Rajkamal > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Rajkamal > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:24:23 +0530 > >> From: anupam chakravartty > >> To: Rajkamal Goswami , sarai list > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Social status doesn’t give immunity to > >> fiction-writer Arundhati Roy > >> Message-ID: > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > >> > >> Mr Thakur writes: "She also blames someone (presumably India) in the > >> following words- “Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for > >> speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask > for > >> justice”. > >> > >> Haven't we been presuming a lot of things recently about people and > passing > >> judgments? Even I have been doing so. I feel guilty. > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 5 > >> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 01:35:29 +0530 > >> From: "shuddha at sarai.net" > >> To: , Khaqsar Wangoo > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Your message to reader-list awaits > >> moderator approval > >> Message-ID: <13916c1e7c59e56f6a4443e126577733 at mail.sarai.net> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=fixed > >> > >> Dear Mr. Wangoo, > >> > >> I am not the moderator of the list, but I am aware of how this list > works, > >> and > >> electronic discussion lists in general function. When you get a message > from > >> the list-bot such as ( which is a > software > >> programme not a human being) saying that your "Message has implicit > >> destination" > >> > >> it occurs because - of a simple oversight on the part of the sender, > such as > >> a > >> person not filling in the To or CC fields of the message. > >> > >> For more on this see > >> > >> http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030676 > >> > >> Please do us the favour of refraining from imagining that this list > >> 'censors' > >> the kind of right-wing trash that you and your friends regularly send on > to > >> the > >> list. No, every piece of garbage that is sent to this list is archived, > so > >> that > >> decades from now we can laugh (or sigh) at the madness, lies and calumny > >> that > >> you all put us through, and that we all suffer, patiently. > >> > >> best, > >> > >> Shuddha (your fellow list member) > >> > >> > >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:57:45 +0530 Khaqsar Wangoo > wrote > >> > >>> Any Reason why Free Speech is being moderated at SARAI now ? > >>> > >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>> From: > >>> Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM > >>> Subject: Your message to reader-list awaits moderator approval > >>> To: veeruz at gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> Your mail to 'reader-list' with the subject > >>> > >>> Court asks for report on Geelani, Arundhati speeches > >>> > >>> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > >>> > >>> The reason it is being held: > >>> > >>> Message has implicit destination > >>> > >>> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > >>> notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > >>> this posting, please visit the following URL: > >>> > >>> > >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/confirm/reader-list/2a7d195eab3113d55ddb4a923c > >>> 381eae1c08d973 > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe > >>> in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 6 > >> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:08:33 +0100 > >> From: Ana Valdés > >> To: francesca recchia > >> Cc: sarai > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort > >> Message-ID: > >> > > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > >> > >> Thank you dear Shudda for your kind letter! I agree with you and others > >> about the need to widen the reach of this list, I feel than many topics > you > >> discuss about India today are the same topics we discussed when I was > young > >> in South America in the 70:s. > >> Freedom of expression is not only a right but it's also a responsability > and > >> I think we should be careful and remember the words of the German priest > >> Martin Niemöller. > >> He wrote: > >> "When they come for the communists I didn't react > >> I was not a communist > >> When they took the tradeunionsleaders I didn't react > >> I was not a tradeunionist > >> They come for the catholics I didn't react > >> I was not a catholic > >> When they come for me > >> it was nobody who could speak for me"- > >> > >> (I quote Niemöller from memory now, I think the poem was much more > detailed > >> :( > >> > >> I am not for or against what Arundathi Roy say, I don't have any > knowledge > >> in the matter. But I defend her right to express her opinions without > >> attracting a ,mob who vandalize her house. > >> > >> > >> Best > >> Ana > >> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:53 PM, francesca recchia > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Shudda and all > >>> > >>> Thank you very much for your messages. I very much appreciated that > voices > >>> who > >>> are generally quieter felt the need to reply - there is a diversity in > the > >>> list > >>> that is worth ackonwledging and giving value to. > >>> > >>> The question of freedom of expression is an interesting one. It is a > >>> subject > >>> very dear to me - last May I tried to organise a public debate on this > >>> subject > >>> in Iraqi Kurdistan and was denied the autorisation. > >>> Still I feel the need of questioning what freedom of speech actually > >>> means. > >>> And > >>> what is the role of individual responsability in excercising such > freedom. > >>> I am > >>> not talking about self-censorship, but rather about respect and "good > >>> manners" > >>> (however old fashion this might sound). > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Francesca > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> francesca recchia > >>> kiccovich at yahoo.com > >>> it +39 338 166 3648 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: "shuddha at sarai.net" > >>> To: sarai ; francesca recchia < > kiccovich at yahoo.com> > >>> Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 17:04:16 > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort > >>> > >>> Dear Francesca, > >>> > >>> Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on > >>> seeing > >>> this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character > >>> assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of > people > >>> on > >>> this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of > decency > >>> on > >>> more than one occasion. > >>> > >>> I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, > >>> unfortunately, > >>> this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I > >>> completely > >>> disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively > on > >>> this > >>> list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their > >>> speech > >>> acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, > like > >>> all > >>> those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, > and > >>> about > >>> a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, > dominate > >>> the > >>> tone and character of the list. > >>> > >>> My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the > >>> list, to > >>> reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and > >>> strange > >>> and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts > may > >>> find a > >>> reflection in this sapce, so that the efforts of an aggressive > minority > >>> to > >>> monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. > >>> > >>> If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, > to > >>> demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and > >>> spread > >>> poison. > >>> > >>> I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, > >>> > >>> best, > >>> > >>> Shuddha > >>> > >>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia < > >>> kiccovich at yahoo.com> > >>> wrote > >>> > >>> > Dear all > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me > to > >>> > discuss > >>> > about the list with different people from different contexts in > >>> > different > >>> > places. > >>> > > >>> > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list > >>> offers > >>> > are > >>> > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that > unfortunately > >>> often > >>> > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones > and > >>> > dismissive attitude. > >>> > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, > >>> > but > >>> > this > >>> > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual > exchange. > >>> > > >>> > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every > once > >>> in a > >>> > > >>> > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from > >>> > doing > >>> so. > >>> > > >>> > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very > >>> interesting > >>> > to > >>> > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > >>> > > >>> > Warmly > >>> > francesca > >>> > francesca recchia > >>> > kiccovich at yahoo.com > >>> > it +39 338 166 3648 > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe > >>> > in the subject header. > >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > List archive: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > >> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > >> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > >> http://www.crusading.se > >> Gondolgatan 2 l tr > >> 12832 Skarpnäck > >> Sweden > >> tel +468-943288 > >> mobil 4670-3213370 > >> > >> > >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with > your > >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always > long > >> to return. > >> — Leonardo da Vinci > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> reader-list mailing list > >> reader-list at sarai.net > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > >> > >> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 21 > >> ******************************************* > >> > > > > -- > > Sent from my mobile device > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 16:03:40 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 16:03:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?b?4KSu4KS+4KSy4KWH4KSX4KS+4KSC4KS1IOCklQ==?= =?utf-8?b?4KWAIOCkpOCksOCkuSDgpJXgpL7gpKjgpKrgpYHgpLAg4KSV4KWAIA==?= =?utf-8?b?4KSw4KS+4KSWIOCkm+CkvuCkqOClgCDgpJzgpL7gpI8g4KSk4KWLLi4u?= Message-ID: Apologies to those who cannot read Hindi, but these insights from Aziz Burney about the missing explosives and the RSS bomb-makers cannot be ignored. Happy Diwali ----------- मालेगांव की तरह कानपुर की राख छानी जाए तो... अज़ीज़ बर्नी मालेगांव जांच से जो धुंध छटनी शुरू हुई थी, अजमेर बम ब्लास्ट जांच के परिणाम सामने आने तक तस्वीर पूरी तरह साफ़ नज़र आने लगी। वे कौन हैं, जो देश में आतंकवाद का वातावरण पैदा किए हुए हैं? देश की शांति व्यवस्था को ख़तरा किन-किन से है? अभी तक हम ही अपने क़लम के माध्यम से यह आईना दिखाने का प्रयास कर रहे थे, फिर राष्ट्रीय मीडिया ने भी उन चेहरों को सामने लाना शुरू कर दिया और अब जबकि सत्ताधारी पार्टी कांगे्रस ने साफ़ तौर पर संघ परिवार का नाम लेकर उनके कारनामों को उजागर कर दिया तो हम समझ सकते हैं कि आतंकवाद पर क़ाबू पाना अब इस सरकार के एजेंडे में शामिल है। हमने कानपुर बम धमाके के बाद फिर इस विषय में लिखना शुरू किया। चाहते तो एक दो लेख के बाद उन विषयों पर वापस लौट सकते थे, जिनकी चर्चा अभी अधूरी थी। अर्थात कश्मीर पर लिखने का सिलसिला जारी था, अभी वह समय नहीं आया है कि इस सिलसिले में गुफ़्तगू बंद कर दी जाती, लेकिन त्वरित रूप से सामने आने वाली समस्याओं पर चर्चा करनी पड़ी। बाबरी मस्जिद अराज़ी की मिल्कियत पर इलाहाबाद हाईकोर्ट के फ़ैसले को सामने रख कर भी कई लेख लिखे, परंतु इस सिलसिले की अंतिम कड़ी अभी भी बाक़ी है। कानपुर के बम धमाके के इस बारूद में हम बहुत कुछ देख रहे हैं। शायद ठंडी होती जा रही राख में दबी कुछ ऐसी चिंगारियां दिखाई दे जाएं कि फिर बड़े-बड़े बम धमाकों से परदा उठने लगे। दरअसल हमारी नज़रें केवल उस एक घर जो तबाह हो गया और वार्ड ब्वाय राजेश तक सीमित नहीं हैं, हमें लगता है कि जिस तरह माले गांव बम धमाकों की जांच के बाद आतंकवादी कार्रवाइयों में लिप्त चेहरे बेनक़ाब होने लगे, परतें खुलने लगीं, उसी तरह अगर कानपुर बम धमाके की जांच मालेगांव बम धमाकों की तरह आगे बढ़ाई जाए तो पिछले कुछ वर्षों में बड़ी मात्रा में ग़ायब होने वाले विस्फोटक पदार्थों का प्रयोग कब कब, कहां कहां और किस किस के द्वारा किया गया, सामने आ सकता है। हमने अपने कल के लेख में पटाख़ों के व्यापार की आड़ में आतंकवाद के ख़तरे को महसूस करते हुए कुछ पंक्तियां लिखी थीं और आज जिस बात को इस लेख का सार ठहराया जा सकता है वह अब लिखने जा रहे हैं। इस समय हम ध्यानाकर्षण चाहते हैं, अपने देश की गुप्तचर एजंसियों तथा भारत सरकार का। कृपया विशेष ध्यान दें, उन खदानों (Mins) का लाइसेंस प्राप्त करने वालों के कार्यों पर, जिन्हें बड़ी मात्रा में विस्फोटक पदार्थ इस काम के लिए दिया जाता है। क्या वास्तव में वह सब इसी काम में प्रयोग होता है या फिर उसका कोई अन्य प्रयोग भी उनके द्वारा संभव है? शायद इस दिशा में बहुत गंभीरता से जांच पड़ताल करने की आवश्यकता है और हमारा सुझाव तो यह भी है कि क्यों न सरकार ऐसे सभी कार्यों को अपने हाथ में ले ले, जिनमें ख़तरनाक विस्फोटक पदार्थ का प्रयोग होता है। हमारी अपने पाठकों से एक विनती यह भी है कि अगर वह हमारे विचार से सहमति रखते हैं तो सरकार तथा प्रशासन का ध्यान इस ओर दिलाने का प्रयास करें। निम्न में हम फिर कुछ ऐसी घटनाओं का विवरण अपने पाठकों तथा भारत सरकार की सेवा में पेश करने जा रहे हैं, जिनसे अंदाज़ा होता है कि पिछले दिनों कितनी बड़ी मात्रा में विस्फोटक पदार्थ ग़ायब भी हुआ और कुछ बरामद भी। क्या है इस सब के पीछे? कौन लोग लिप्त हैं इस गोरखधंधे में? और क्या है इसका सच, इसका पता लगाना अत्यंत आवश्यक है। स 30 अक्तूबर 2010, सागर, राजस्थान से मध्य प्रदेश भेेजे गए विस्फोटक पदार्थ के 163 ट्रकों में से 61 ट्रक मध्य प्रदेश में सागर ज़िला के अशोक नगर में बरामद हो गए। पुलिस को इस सिलसिले में भीलवाड़ा और धौलपुर (राजस्थान), राजकोट (गुजरात), अहमद नगर (महाराष्ट्र) से काफ़ी महत्वपूर्ण सूचनाएं प्राप्त हुई हैं। यह बात मामले की जांच करने वाली टीम ने कहा कि उनको इस बात का अंदाज़ा नहीं है कि यह विस्फोटक पदार्थ देशद्रोही तत्वों के हाथ में पहुंचा या नहीं। इस बारे में अभी कुछ नहीं कहा जा सकता। (www.frankin temptetion India.com) स 2 सितम्बर 2010, दीपा हेडा तथा उनके पति शिवचरन हेडा को 2 सितम्बर 2010 को भीलवाड़ा पुलिस ने अहमदाबाद से गिरफ़्तार किया। (outlookindia.com) उन लोगों से क्या क्या अहम जानकारियां मिलीं यह अभी सामने आना बाक़ी है। स 17 मार्च 2009 को (आईएएनएस के समाचार के अनुसार) 5 टन विस्फोटक पदार्थों से लदा एक ट्रक जिसमें जेलेटिन की छड़ें (Gelatine Stick), 30 हज़ार गोलियां मौजूद थीं, छत्तीसगढ़ से बरामद हुई थीं। यह ट्रक नक्सलियों के प्रभाव वाले क्षेत्र जोशपुर से बरामद हुआ है, समाचारों के अनुसार इसमें से 17,750 राउंड कारतूस, 12 बोरकी गन में प्रयोग होने वाले थे, जबकि 1,550 कारतूस 9 एमएम की पिस्टल के थे। यह जानकारी डिप्टी इंस्पैक्टर जनरल पुलिस हैडक्वार्टर पवनदेव ने दी। इस बरामदगी में 5 टन पदार्थों में से अधिकांश जेलेटिन की छड़ें थीं। (समाचार सोर्सः आईएनएस) स 16 अक्तूबर 2010 को छत्तीसगढ़ की राजधानी रायपुर से 180 किलोमीटर दूर जंगयापुर चम्बा ज़िला के बिचैड़ गांव के एक किसान के यहां से पुलिस ने अमोनियम नाइट्रेट की 26 बोरियां बरामद कीं। अमोनियम नाइट्रेट को धमाका करने के लिए भी प्रयोग किया जा सकता है। किसान ने यह समझते हुए कि अमोनियम नाइट्रेट का खेती के लिए भी प्रयोग किया जा सकता है, यह बोरियां सड़क पर से उठाई थीं और अपने घर ले गए। पुलिस का कहना है कि बोरियां कोरबा से रायपुर लाई गई थीं। पुलिस का यह भी कहना है कि अमोनियम नाइट्रेट को Oxiding Agent के रूप में भी इस्तेमाल किया जा सकता है। यह बोरियां सड़क पर किसने फैंकीं या ग़लती से गिर गईं, कहां से लाई गईं और किस उद्देश्य के लिए ले जाई जा रही थीं, पता लगाना अत्यंत आवश्यक है। स 20 मई 2010 को प्रकाशित समाचार के अनुसार छत्तीसगढ़ पुलिस का कहना है कि संदिग्ध माओवादी आतंकवादियों ने छत्तीसगढ़ से बक्सर जाने वाले ट्रक का अपहरण करके उससे 16 टन अमोनियम नाइट्रेट उतार लिया। माओवादी इस ट्रक को राष्ट्रीय राज मार्ग 43 से अपहरण करके अपने प्रभाव वाले क्षेत्रों में ले गए। यह बात ट्रक ड्राइवर ने पुलिस को बताई। अब प्रश्न यह पैदा होता है कि इसका प्रयोग उन्होंने स्वयं किया या किसी आतंकवादी गिरोह को भी यह विस्फोटक पदार्थ प्राप्त हुआ। स इसके अलावा पुलिस ने 12 सितम्बर 2009 को ज़िला रोहतास नगर से 10 क्विंटल अमोनियम नाइट्रेट, 100 जेलेटिन की छड़ें और 60 हज़ार डेटोनेटर बरामद किए। (समाचार: आईएएनएस) स 25 जून 2010: जमूई ज़िला के चक्की गांव से सुरक्षा बलों ने 800 किलो ग्राम अमोनियम नाइट्रेट बरामद किया। इसका प्रयोग विस्फोटक पदार्थ बनाने के लिए होता है। यह सामग्री झारखंड के जसीदीह (Jasidih) से आ रही थी। इस सिलसिले में 4 नक्सलियों को गिरफ़्तार किया गया। स 21 मई 2010: उत्तर प्रदेश के सोनभद्र ज़िला में पुलिस ने अशोक कुमार नामक व्यक्ति को गिरफ़्तार करके बड़ी संख्या में डेटोनेटर, जेलेटिन की छड़ें बरामद कीं। इसमें 50 किलोग्राम अमोनियम नाइट्रेट, 25 डेटोनेटर और 25 जेलेटिन की छड़ें शामिल हैं। (समाचार: एएसआई) स पटना 4 दिसम्बर 2009: पुलिस ने 7 क्विंटल पोटेशियम नाइट्रेट जमूई ज़िला के चकानी गांव से बरामद किया। स्पष्ट रहे कि पोटेशियम नाइट्रेट का प्रयोग विस्फोटक पदार्थ बनाने में किया जाता है। (आईएएनएस पृष्ठ-29) स गया, 10 अगस्त: एएनआई के अनुसार ज़िला गया में शेर घाटी पुलिस के अंतर्गत पुलिस ने एक ट्रक से बारह हज़ार डेटोनेटर बरामद किया। यह डेटोनेटर एक डम्पर ट्रक से बरामद किए गए। इस सिलसिले में 2 व्यक्तियों कृष्णा शर्मा तथा प्रभु तिवारी को गिरफ़्तार किया गया। यह सामग्री बारूदी सुरंगें बनाने तथा पहाड़ी रास्तों को नष्ट करने के लिए प्रयोग होती है। (एएनआई) स 7 अक्तूबर 2010: मंुगेर ज़िला के एक तस्कर के घर से पुलिस ने 76 देसी निर्मित पिस्टल बरामद किए हैं। चुनाव से पूर्व बिहार पुलिस ने राज्य भर में 13 अवैध शस्त्र बनाने वाली फै़क्ट्रियों पर छापा मारा। जिन में 353 हथियार (जिनका विवरण नहीं है), 10230 जीवित कारतूस, हथगोले और 1500 किलोग्राम अमोनियम नाइट्रेट, 2025 किलो विस्फोटक पदार्थ तथा 1,69,512 डेटोनेटर बरामद किए। (एएनआई) स 8 फरवरी मई 2009: गुजरात पुलिस एटीएस ने भड़ौच ज़िला के तालुका जगाड़िया के गांव जसपुर से 1.8 टन अमोनियम नाइट्रेट बरामद किया। इस संबंध में गांव के निवासी हसमुख पटेल को गिरफ़्तार करके उसके विरुद्ध Explosive Substance Act के तहत मुक़दमा दर्ज किया गया। पटेल के घर से 36 बोरे बरामद किए गए हैं। (इंडियन एक्स्प्रेस न्यूज़ आॅन लाइन)। पटैल के भाई के पास अमोनियम नाइट्रेट के व्यापार का लाइसेंस है और वह अपने भाई के नाम से यह सामग्री ख़रीदता था। एटीएस ऐसे लोगों की सूचि तैयार कर रही है जिनको उसने अमोनियम नाइट्रेट दिया था और इस संभावना का भी पता लगा रही है कि क्या इस कैमिकल का प्रयोग बम बनाने के लिए हो सकता है। स 10 दिसम्बर: कन्नूर से एसआईटी ने 1 किलोग्राम अमोनियम नाइट्रेट बरामद किया और एन कनहामीना (N. Kunhamina) को गिरफ़्तार किया। स 13 अप्रैल 2000: चकमंगलूर जि़्ाला के कोपा (Kopa), सिरंगेरी (Sringeri), एनआर पुरा (N. R Pura) और बेलेहोनर (Belehonur) क्षेत्रों से पुलिस ने Detonetor/10, और 100 किलोग्राम विस्फोटक पदार्थ बरामद किया है। (समाचार: पीटीआई) स 9 जुलाई 2010: सेलम पुलिस (Salem Police), ने अमोनियम नाइट्रेट का एक बड़ा ढेर बरामद किया। बरामद सामग्री में 3760 किलो अमोनियम नाइट्रेट तथा अन्य वस्तु बरामद हुई। इस संबंध में कुमार (30) को Explosive Substance Act के तहत गिरफ़्तार कर किया गया। (दि हिंदु) स नवम्बर 2009 पटना: राज्य पुलिस ने कंकर बाग़ में खड़े एक ट्रक से 350 किलोग्राम अमोनियम नाइट्रेट, Copper Sulphate तथा तेज़ाब की बोतलें बरामद की हैं। स 8 नवम्बर पटना: पुलिस ने विस्फोटक पदार्थों की 18 बोरियां, बारूदी सुरंगें बनाने वाले कैमिकल की 300 बोतलें, 7,221 जीवित कारतूस, 14,50 Detonators, कारबाइन और दो देसी पिस्तौलें बरामद कीं। पुलिस ने रात में काम आने वाले उपकरण Vision Instruments, वायरलैस सैट, सीडीdisposable syringe भी बरामद की। स 10 नवम्बर 2009: बिहार पुलिस ने झारखंड के बोकारो के ओमकारनाथ के घर छापा मारकर 32 हज़ार जीवित कारतूस, एक ए॰के॰47 राइफ़ल, दो आईएनएस एएस राइफ़लें, 3 हथगोले तथा बड़ी मात्रा में विस्फोटक पदार्थ बरामद किया। स 13 अक्तूबर 2009: औरंगाबाद ज़िला के दो व्यक्तियों मोन्टू शर्मा तथा धनंजय कुमार से पटना में 2340 जीवित कारतूस के साथ गिरफ़्तार किया। इन लोगों ने स्वीकार किया है कि विस्फोटक पदार्थ आपराधिक तत्वों के लिए प्रयोग किया जाना था। यह विस्फोटक पदार्थ उत्तर प्रदश, दिल्ली, हरियाणा से मंुगेर, औरंगाबाद, जहानाबाद लाया गया था। स गुजरात के गोधरा तालुक़ा के गांव से 52 जेलेटिन की छड़ें और 82 डेटोनेटर्स तथा अन्य विस्फोटक पदार्थ बरामद किया गया। इस सिलसिले में अमर सिंह गाधवी (Amar Singh Gadhvi) और रामलाल गुर्जर (Ramlal Gurjar) को गिरफ़्तार किया गया। डीएनए का समाचार जो 15 फ़ारवरी-2010 को दिया गया) स 12 नवम्बर: बिहार पुलिस की स्पेशल टास्क फ़ोर्स ने गया ज़िला के दो स्थानों से 5 हज़ार किलोग्राम विस्फोटक पदार्थ बरामद किया। एसटीएफ़ ने को लक्षमी क्षेत्र से 29 और डीला पुलिस क्षेत्र से 70 बोरियां बरामद कीं। इन दोनों स्थानों से बरामद होने वाले विस्फोटक पदार्थों का भार 40 और 45 किलोग्राम बताया जाता है। स इससे पूर्व 8 नवम्बर को पुलिस ने तरल विस्फोटक पदार्थ, 14 कार्बन बनाने वाले उपकरण, पिस्टल और 7221 कारतूस तथा 50 डेटोनेटर बरामद किए हैं। (एएनआई का समाचार) ..........................................(जारी) http://azizburney.blogspot.com/ From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 18:39:02 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?IHlhc2lyIH7ZitinINiz2LE=?=) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 18:09:02 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] discomfort In-Reply-To: References: <366243.63048.qm@web113205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6d6726cec1796baeec472a5ed346705a@mail.sarai.net> <737784.94317.qm@web113203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you Francesca for speaking on this, others ! while speech may be good or bad, there is something to be said for good manners, without being old fashioned - the essence of recreating, whispering the common space where ideas get peeled repealed remixed, responsed, rehashed, restated, whether there is noise in the background or not, its a constant activity for us here and everywhere else. in everywhere else is the rest of the world and in here next door, joined at birth, with our ears glued to the wall, is india. this is a unique pore-in-the-wall and i will stay here, as it is no Other - this is home too, with all the guts, grime and bad behaviour. i hope people realize what effect being a nuisance has, and oncce in a while we need to be quite blunt. best On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Ana Valdés wrote: > Thank you dear Shudda for your kind letter! I agree with you and others > about the need to widen the reach of this list, I feel than many topics you > discuss about India today are the same topics we discussed when I was young > in South America in the 70:s. > Freedom of expression is not only a right but it's also a responsability > and > I think we should be careful and remember the words of the German priest > Martin Niemöller. > He wrote: > "When they come for the communists I didn't react > I was not a communist > When they took the tradeunionsleaders I didn't react > I was not a tradeunionist > They come for the catholics I didn't react > I was not a catholic > When they come for me > it was nobody who could speak for me"- > > (I quote Niemöller from memory now, I think the poem was much more detailed > :( > > I am not for or against what Arundathi Roy say, I don't have any knowledge > in the matter. But I defend her right to express her opinions without > attracting a ,mob who vandalize her house. > > > Best > Ana > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:53 PM, francesca recchia >wrote: > > > Dear Shudda and all > > > > Thank you very much for your messages. I very much appreciated that > voices > > who > > are generally quieter felt the need to reply - there is a diversity in > the > > list > > that is worth ackonwledging and giving value to. > > > > The question of freedom of expression is an interesting one. It is a > > subject > > very dear to me - last May I tried to organise a public debate on this > > subject > > in Iraqi Kurdistan and was denied the autorisation. > > Still I feel the need of questioning what freedom of speech actually > means. > > And > > what is the role of individual responsability in excercising such > freedom. > > I am > > not talking about self-censorship, but rather about respect and "good > > manners" > > (however old fashion this might sound). > > > > Thanks > > Francesca > > > > > > > > > > francesca recchia > > kiccovich at yahoo.com > > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "shuddha at sarai.net" > > To: sarai ; francesca recchia < > kiccovich at yahoo.com> > > Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 17:04:16 > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] discomfort > > > > Dear Francesca, > > > > Thank you very much for your message. I feel equally disheartened on > seeing > > this list being abused to call for bans, denunciations and character > > assasination of all kinds, particularly by a motivated minority of people > > on > > this list whose 'nationalism' permits them to cross the lines of decency > on > > more than one occasion. > > > > I believe that this list is a space for the freedom of speech, > > unfortunately, > > this means that we have to live with this kind of abuse. While I > completely > > disagree with the kind of speech that some people practice obsessively on > > this > > list, I believe that it is their right to do what they wish with their > > speech > > acts.The only antidote to it is for everyone else, like you, like me, > like > > all > > those committed to an open space to post, with care and with passion, and > > about > > a diversity of issues, to not let any one issue, any one tenor, dominate > > the > > tone and character of the list. > > > > My appeal to you would be to you, and to all the silent readers of the > > list, to > > reclaim the list, to make it their own, to discuss all the diverse and > > strange > > and rich experiences that are a part of our daily lives and thoughts may > > find a > > reflection in this sapce, so that the efforts of an aggressive minority > to > > monopolize the space of discussion is not able to succeed. > > > > If we believe in freedom of speech, then we have to enrich this space, to > > demonstrate that freedom of speech is not ONLY the freedom to hate and > > spread > > poison. > > > > I look forward to reading what you, and what everyone thinks and feels, > > > > best, > > > > Shuddha > > > > On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT) francesca recchia < > > kiccovich at yahoo.com> > > wrote > > > > > Dear all > > > > > > > > > I am writing this message as in the past days it often happen to me to > > > discuss > > > about the list with different people from different contexts in > different > > > places. > > > > > > I feel that the potentials of exchange and interactions that the list > > offers > > > are > > > immense - an incredible spring of food for thoughts that unfortunately > > often > > > gets lost in personal attacks, petty accusations, aggressive tones and > > > dismissive attitude. > > > I understand that some political matters are close to people's heart, > but > > > this > > > does not justify the lowering of the tone of the intellectual exchange. > > > > > > I have often thought of unsubscribing, but the knowledge that every > once > > in a > > > > > > while there is the chance of positive engagement prevented me from > doing > > so. > > > > > > My posts have often gone unanswered - i reckon they are not very > > interesting > > > to > > > the other members - i wonder whether this will get any response. :) > > > > > > Warmly > > > francesca > > > francesca recchia > > > kiccovich at yahoo.com > > > it +39 338 166 3648 > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > > in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > http://www.crusading.se > Gondolgatan 2 l tr > 12832 Skarpnäck > Sweden > tel +468-943288 > mobil 4670-3213370 > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with > your > eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long > to return. > — Leonardo da Vinci > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 4 20:53:04 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 08:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar Message-ID: <111203.36724.qm@web51405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear all Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these children and were taking them away, but their operation failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around them and snatched all the children back. They spread the rumour that the activists were “conspiring against Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central university whose many staff, teachers and students reside here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, Gandhian studies and host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the lamp there seems darkness. This is not the first time that the local people used the “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to improve their lot. Of course there has been a lot of insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light of the generalisations made by the media and the police about the people of this area. But this can also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local backlash, the authorities have decided in the recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the zari factories are all part of the growing monster that this area has become. And the religious identity is a good excuse to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing here hoping that at least some discussion or debate could ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. But more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious identity for petty issues, and how real are these “conspiracies against Muslims”. Any ideas? Yousuf Saeed ---- Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient attitude of administration On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted a raid and rescue operation in their effort to eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue operation. Children in this area were involved in the zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years to 13 years of age. The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children and they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who introduced themselves as some members of a political organization, along with the owners of the industry came and interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two person propagated a communal flavour during conversation with our team members and motivated the people by saying that these people are against Muslims. As a result of their interruption the local people started gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials and the people from the labour department remained standing as mere spectators and most of them disappeared from the spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did not take any action and at last we had to return back empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said in this context “This happened because of the inefficient attitude of the administration but our activists will continue this movement against those who are responsible for creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued children are rescued in that area Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate authority to take proper action against who interrupted the official work by sustaining the rescue operation and forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php Also see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms From aliens at dataone.in Thu Nov 4 21:22:16 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:22:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GUJARAT TAKES LEAD AMONG STATES IN SOLAR POWER Message-ID: <002401cb7c38$41949360$c4bdba20$@in> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/features/sunday-et/special-feature/Gujar at-takes-the-lead-among-states-in-solar-power/articleshow/6855821.cms?curpg= 1 When his design didn't find takers nationally, Narendra Modi went local. A few years ago, the Gujarat chief minister was at an international summit. When a session on energy crisis cast light on solar power, Modi thought of the Rann of Kutch in his home state, where the land was endless and the sun's heat relentless. He wondered: could countries blessed with sunlight form a solar alliance, led by India, to mainstream this promising source of power? He wrote to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, with a broad concept of such an entity. He called it 'Sun-Son' - offspring of the sun. The Prime Minister's Office acknowledged the proposal, but left it at that. So, Modi turned inwards. He asked his trusted lieutenants, energy minister Saurabh Patel and principal secretary S Jagdeesan, for a plan to turn the state into a hub in solar power. The maiden expression of that vision came in January 2009, when Gujarat became the first Indian state to launch a solar-power policy. Several states followed suit. Like Gujarat, they also showed a long list of companies interested in generating solar power. But, unlike them, Gujarat is following through with an unmatched sense of purpose. This June, it signed power purchase agreements (PPAs) - an operational and financial commitment from both the state and the developers - with 21 companies to generate 365 MW of solar power (See table: Gujarat's Solar Push). At an estimated capital cost of Rs 15 crore per MW of solar capacity, that's a likely investment of about Rs 5,500 crore. And supply is expected to begin by December 2011. By all markers, Gujarat is the clear leader in solar power. Other states, notably Tamil Nadu and Rajasthan, have installations or commitments of a capacity in double digits. At an all-India level, the National Solar Mission, launched by the Centre in November 2009, has set a target of 1,000 MW target for 2013. In other words, Gujarat is on its way to rolling out one-third, probably more, of what the Centre is targeting for all of India in the next three years. "Gujarat has the most aggressive plans," says Ratul Puri, executive director, Moser Baer India , a sister company of which is setting up three solar plants of 15 MW each in the state. The plans also have a big idea: integrate solar into Gujarat's power ecosystem by simultaneously smoothening both the demand and the supply sides. On the supply side, Gujarat is incentivising developers by announcing solar tariffs for 25 years. The Gujarat Electricity Regulatory Commission (GERC), the state distribution arm, has fixed tariffs for the two kinds of solar technologies. And, many say, the rates are generous to developers. The first technology is photovoltaic (PV) cells. Here large, solar panels made of silicon are erected on land in such a way that sunlight falls directly on them, and gets converted into power. Solar producers in Gujarat using the PV technology will get Rs 15 per unit for the first 12 years and Rs 5 per unit from year 13 to year 25. By comparison, thermal and hydro cost Rs 4-6 per unit. The second technology is solar-thermal power. Here, the sun's energy is used to fire a steam turbine, and generate power. For solar-thermal producers, GERC has fixed the tariff at Rs 11 per unit for the first 12 years and Rs 4 per unit from year 13 to year 25. "The long-term benefits far outweigh the initial cost of setting up a plant," says Gujarat energy minister Saurabh Patel. Both technologies have their pros and cons. The investment in solar thermal is lower, which means a faster payback. But solar thermal needs greater maintenance and is less effective in winters. By comparison, the PV cell technology is quicker and easier to install. It's mostly a matter of transporting the PV cells to the plant site and wiring them up. PV cells have a long life - at least, 25 years - and their operating cost is lower than solar-thermal. Of the 21 companies that have signed PPAs in Gujarat so far, 20 have opted for PV technology. On the demand side, Gujarat is placing new conditions on companies that generate and distribute power, which will nudge them towards solar. So, power-distribution companies have been asked to source 5% of their energy requirements for 2010-11 from renewable sources (3% in 2009-10). This will increase to 6% in 2011-12 and 7% in 2012-13. Of this, solar will have to account for 0.25%, 0.5% and 1%, respectively. An allocation of 0.25% means an assured offtake of about one-fourth of the upcoming solar capacity. Similarly, power developers in Gujarat have been told that for every 10 units of energy they generate from non-renewable sources like coal, they will have to generate one unit from renewable ones - in Gujarat, that means solar, wind, bagasse and hydro. Given the total power capacity of 10,000 MW in the state, that's about 1,000 MW from renewable sources. Of the four renewable sources, solar and wind are expected to account for a lion's share. Gujarat has signed PPAs for about 1,000 MW of wind energy. "An equal capacity is expected in solar," Anmol Singh Jaggi, director, Gensol Consultants, an Ahmedabad-based consultancy that specialises in renewable power. The state government is learnt to have received applications for about 800 MW for the second round of solar PPAs, which are likely to be signed this month. Developers are rushing to Gujarat because of the favourable terms it offers. GERC has estimated the average cost of solar-power generation to be Rs 12.40 a unit, including a 14% margin. "The IRR (internal rate of return, calculated for a 25-year operating cycle) works out to 19% from the first year," says Ravi Surapaneni, vice-president, Solar Semiconductor, which is setting up a 20 MW plant in the state. "Once you pay off your debt, you own it at practically zero cost. It's like putting your money in a bank and getting returns for perpetuity with great predictability." Sebastian Morris, an expert on energy, says Gujarat might be offering too much to developers - at the expense of consumers and the state exchequer. Disagreeing with Gujarat's approach to fix uniform tariffs, the professor at the Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad, says the state should have fixed the capacity it wanted to put onstream and asked companies to put in tariff bids. "The per unit cost would have been a maximum of Rs 8-10 then, instead of a high of Rs 15 at present." The increasing share of solar in Gujarat's power basket will increase the purchase price for distribution companies - and, by extension, for consumers. "In 2012, once solar enters the grid, consumers will have to pay at least 7% more," says KK Bajaj, director of the Consumer Education and Research Society (CERS), an Ahmedabad-based consumer forum. Morris also expresses reservation over the 25-year commitment period. "A technology should not outlive the tariff period," he says, expressing fears that India may emerge as a dumping ground for old solar technologies. Meanwhile, companies have their own challenges to overcome, as they turn their plans into plants. Solar plants based on PV cells - the technology of choice - need a lot of land. Typically, it's five acres per MW - or the size of five football fields. "Companies will have to get the land themselves," says energy minister Patel. "The state will only recommend places where projects could come up." Moser Baer's Puri says land acquisition is "a challenge", but not as much as, say, buying a coal mine or building a dam. "For solar, you are not tagged to a site (unlike, say, a thermal plant, which has to be close to a coal mine or a rail head). You can set it up on fallow, unused land." A majority of the projects are expected to come up in the districts of Banaskantha, Mehsana, Patan and Surendranagar, which are largely dependent on agriculture and trading. Industrial clusters in Bharuch and Kutch districts are also in the mix. The department of energy and petrochemicals is also chalking out a 'solar park scheme', which offers land and connectivity to the grid. The next challenge is funding. "A 15 MW plant will cost about Rs 200 crore, of which, about 60% is the cost of panels," says James V Abraham, MD & CEO, SunBorne Energy Technologies, which is a setting up a 15 MW plant in Kutch. Venture capital (VC) funds and private equity funds are beginning to close deals. For instance, VC fund Helion Venture Partners has invested an undisclosed amount in Azure Power, a solar developer that is putting up 15 MW capacity in Gujarat. "Our sweet spot for investment will be $2-10 million to get the companies started, which can then bring in large investors," says Sanjeev Aggarwal, managing director, Helion. "We still have to see how the Indian government makes debt available at lower interest rates." On the positive side, economies of scale and improvements in technology are driving costs down. "There's been a 20% reduction in costs in the last two years," says Rajiv Jain, associate director, government affairs, India Semiconductor Association. At this rate, Abraham of SunBorne expects solar to achieve 'grid parity' - cost the same as conventional sources of power - in seven years. The pace of the movement towards parity will largely determine whether, in its race to become a solar hub, Gujarat gave out more than it needed to or could afford. For now, policymakers in the state are busy counting megawatts and enjoying their time under the sun. What other states are doing Tamil Nadu Plans, Rajasthan has plenty - so far, 530 companies have registered with the state's nodal renewable-energy agency to generate 13,000 MW of solar power. But there's no policy yet. "It is expected soon," says state energy minister Jitendra Singh. Meanwhile, the state has cleared 91 MW of projects, of which, 66 MW is a migration to the National Solar Mission being funded and managed by the Centre. Singh says the state is planning to create dedicated land-banks for solar projects in districts like Barmer, Bikaner, Churu, Jaisalmer, Jalore, Jodhpur and Nagaur. "We are offering land for solar projects at 10% of the district-level committee rates." In the first phase, the list of companies includes Dalmia Solar Power, Integra Limited, Aston Field Solar and AES Solar Energy. Under the PPA, the purchase price will be Rs 17.91 per unit for PV plants and Rs 15.32 for solar-thermal plants. Both rates are more than what Gujarat is offering. Rajasthan Unlike Gujarat and like Rajasthan, it doesn't have a solar policy yet; there's one expected by the year-end. Meanwhile, it is pushing for capacity through the National Solar Mission, where it feels it has been grossly under-represented. Tamil Nadu asked the Centre to allocate 200-500 MW of the 1,000 MW earmarked for the first phase of the National Solar Mission and it forwarded applications by 129 companies. The Centre initially shortlisted only 29 projects of about 22 MW of capacity. And the final shortlist has just seven projects, of a total of 7 MW: Amson Power, B&G Solar, Gemini Geoss Energy, Great Shine Holdings, Harrisons Power, Noel Media & Advertising, and RL Clean Power. Says Dr R Christodas Gandhi, CMD, Tamil Nadu Energy Development Agency: "All the 129 applicants should have been given an opportunity. They were all of competent enough to enter into this segment." (Himanshu Darji, Mitul Thakkar and Shelley Singh, Peerzada Abrar, Rituraj Tiwari, Sangeetha Kandavel) From jomathai at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 01:31:39 2010 From: jomathai at gmail.com (Joseph Mathai) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 20:01:39 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] "International Conference on the Global Crisis and Hegemonic Dilemmas" Message-ID: <162594389-1288900927-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1497248017-@bda2061.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Programme 1st DAY (8th November) 9.30-13.00 Morning plenary:   “The Global Crisis and Hegemonic Dilemmas”.   Chair:  Mr. Mani Shankar Aiyar Former Minister and Rajya Sabha MP   Speakers: Leo Panitch Perry Anderson Vivek Chibber   14.00-17.30 Afternoon plenary:   “The Global Economic Crisis and its Implications”.   Chair: Dr. Jaya Mehta Economist and Independent Researcher   Speakers: Anwar Shaikh Deepak NayyarJayati Ghosh     2nd DAY (9th November)   9.30-13.00 Morning plenary:   “Emerging Powers: Allies or Rivals?”   Chair: Prof. Javeed Alam Chairperson, ICSSR   Speakers: Boris Kagarlitsky (Russia) Chaohua Wang (China) Anand Swaroop Verma (India)   14.00-17.30 Afternoon plenary:   “The Zone of Turbulence: West and Central Asia”   Chair: Prof. Neera Chandhoke Dept. of Political Science, DU   Speakers: Michael Warschawski Anuradha Chenoy Praful Bidwai   3rd DAY (10th November)   9.30-13.00   “Towards a Socialist Alternative: Reorienting the Left”.   Chair: Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy School of International Studies, JNU   Speakers: Michael Lowy on Latin America Erhard Crome on Europe Achin Vanaik. on India Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel From epk at xs4all.nl Fri Nov 5 02:29:24 2010 From: epk at xs4all.nl (Eric Kluitenberg) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 21:59:24 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Economies of the Commons 2 - Final Program - Hilversum & Amsterdam, November 11-13, 2010. Message-ID: <47179939-825B-457E-80E0-C7174EA86629@xs4all.nl> A N N O U N C E M E N T Economies of the Commons 2 - Paying the costs of making things free * * * FINAL PROGRAM * * * International conference, seminar and public evening programs Amsterdam & Hilversum November 11 – 13, 2010 www.ecommons.eu Economies of the Commons 2 is a critical examination of the economics of on-line public domain and open access resources of information, knowledge, and media (the ‘digital commons’). The past 10 years have seen the rise of a variety of such open content resources attracting millions of users, sometimes on a daily basis. The impact of projects such as Wikipedia, Images of the Future, and Europeana testify to the vibrancy of the new digital public domain. No longer left to the exclusive domains of digital ‘insiders’, open content resources are rapidly becoming widely used and highly popular. While protagonists of open content praise its low-cost accessibility and collaborative structures, critics claim it undermines the established “gate keeping” functions of authors, the academy, and professional institutions while lacking a reliable business model of its own. Economies of the Commons 2 provides a timely and crucial analysis of sustainable economic models that can promote and safeguard the online public domain. We want to find out what the new hybrid solutions are for archiving, access and reuse of on-line content that can both create viable markets and serve the public interest in a competitive global 21st century information economy. Economies of the Commons 2 consists of an international seminar on Open Video hosted by the Netherlands Institute for Sound and Vision on November 11 in Hilversum, a two day international conference and two public evening programs on November 12 and 13 at De Balie, centre for culture and politics in Amsterdam. The event builds upon the successful Economies of the Commons conference organised in April 2008. Organisers: Images for the Future Consortium / Kennisland (Knowledgeland) / De Balie / Netherlands Institute for Sound and Vision / Institute of Network Cultures / University of Amsterdam, Department of New Media Live web cast: The conference in Amsterdam, November 12 & 13 is streamed live at: www.debalie.nl/live (all times CET) PROGRAM OVERVIEW: THURSDAY NOVEMBER 11 Pre-Conference Seminar: Open Video Conference Europe Venue: Mediacentrum, Sumatralaan 45 (Media Park), Hilversum 10.00 - 11.00 Plenary keynotes: Ben Moskowitz (Open Video Alliance) Peter B. Kaufman (Intelligent Television) 11.15 - 13.00 Plenary Presentations of Relevant Projects Michael Dale (Wikimedia Foundation) – Video on Wikipedia Jamie King (VODO) – Promoting and Distributing Creative Works Using P2P Dolf Veenvliet (Blender Foundation) – Open Movie Projects and Software Frans Ward (Surfnet) – Open Video in Education Bram Tullemans (NPO) – Online Video for Dutch Public Broadcasting 13.00 - 14.00 Lunch break 14.00 - 1600 Parallel Working Groups: 1. Video on Wikipedia Moderators: Ben Moskowitz & Michael Dale 2. Open Distribution Models for Broadcasting Moderator: Peter B. Kaufman & Paul Keller 16.15 - 17.00 Closing discussion and closing remarks Admission free - reservation required due to limited seating. Send an e-mail to: ian.van.riel at balie.nl ------------ FRIDAY NOVEMBER 12 Economies of the Commons 2 Conference - Day 1 Venue: De Balie, Amsterdam 10.30 – 11.00 Doors open 11.00 – 11.15 Welcome and introduction to the conference: Eric Kluitenberg (De Balie) 11.15 – 12.00 Conference Keynote Address: Constructing a Commons-Based Digital Infrastructure Charlotte Hess, Associate Dean for Research, Collections, & Scholarly Communication, Syracuse University, and internationally renown commons theorist. http://library.syr.edu/about/people/staffbio/Hess_Charlotte.php 12.00 - 12.30 Invited responses and discussion: With: Joost Poort, SEO Economic Researcher on the market structure and regulation of infrastructures http://www.seo.nl 12.30 – 13.30 Lunch break 13.30 – 15.30 Critique of the ‘Free and Open’ Speakers Yann Moulier Boutang, University of Technology of Compiègne, editor of Quarterly French Review MULTITUDES. Sustainablility of Free and Open: from Terra Nullius to the new Commons Dymitri Kleiner, author of Telekommunist Manifesto www.telekommunisten.net Simona Levi is a multidisciplinary artist born in Italy and established in Barcelona, director of Conservas, a cultural activity centre, co-founder of EXGAE and organiser of the Free Culture Forum Barcelona. http://fcforum.net Nate Tkacz, Melbourne University Death Knell for Open Politics http://nathanieltkacz.net/ Moderator: Geert Lovink, founding director of the Institute of Network Cultures. http://networkcultures.org 15.45 – 17.30 Pro-Active Archives Speakers Michael Edson, Director of Web and New Media Strategy for the Smithsonian Institution and Smithsonian Commons The Smithsonian Commons www.si.edu/commons/prototype Sandra Fauconnier, Collection, Netherlands Media Art Institute NIMk: Mediating Media Art www.nimk.nl http://catalogue.nimk.nl http://gama-gateway.eu Michael Murtaugh, writer, web designer, and creator of the Active Archives Active Archives www.activearchives.org/wiki/Main_Page www.automatist.org Annelies Termeer, Coordinator of Celluloid Remix at EYE Film Instituut Netherlands Celluloid Remix Moderator: Eric Kluitenberg, head of the media program at De Balie, Amsterdam, and editor in chief of the Tactical Media Files on-line documentiation resource. www.debalie.nl www.tacticalmediafiles.net 17.45 – 18.05 Book launch, Telecommunist Manifesto by Dymitri Kleiner ------------ Friday November 12 - Evening Program: 20.30– 22.30 Public Debate: Future of the Public Domain in Europe venue: De Balie, Amsterdam A public debate about the future of the public domain in Europe and the role of evolving media and information infrastructures. Speakers: James Boyle, William Neal Reynolds Professor of Law and co-founder of the Center for the Study of the Public Domain at Duke Law School. He is the author of The Public Domain: Enclosing the Commons of the Mind, and Shamans, Software and Spleens: Law and Construction of the Information Society. http://james-boyle.com www.thepublicdomain.org Bas Savenije, Director General of the Dutch Royal Library, Koninklijke Bibliotheek, in the Netherlands. http://www.kb.nl/ Lucie Guibault is assistant professor of copyright and intellectual property law at the Institute for Information Law of the University of Amsterdam (UvA). www.ivir.nl/staff/guibault.html Simona Levi director of Conservas, a cultural activity centre in Barcelona, co-founder of EXGAE, and organiser of the Free Culture Forum Barcelona. http://fcforum.net Charlotte Hess, Associate Dean for Research, Collections, & Scholarly Communication, Syracuse University, and internationally renown commons theorist. Constructing a Commons-Based Digital Infrastructure http://library.syr.edu/about/people/staffbio/Hess_Charlotte.php Moderator: Paul Keller, copyright and social media expert, Knoweldgeland / Creative Commons Netherlands, www.kennisland.nl ------------ SATURDAY NOVEMBER 13 Economies of the Commons 2 Conference - Day 2 Venue: De Balie, Amsterdam 10.00 – 12.30 Revenue Models Speakers: Eelco Ferwerda, Amsterdam University Press - Publisher of Digital Products and is responsible for all digital publications. www.oapen.org/xtf/home?brand=oapen, http://www.aup.nl/ Harry Verwayen, responsible for the development of the business of Europeana, an online collection of audio and visual culture. www.europeana.eu/portal/ Jaromil and Marco Sachy: - Denis Roio (Jaromil) is an artist, theorist and programmer currently based in Amsterdam, working as a researcher at the Netherlands Media Art Institute. http://jaromil.dyne.org/ - Marco Sachy, researcher, Erasmus Institute for Philosophy and Economics, Rotterdam. Dolf Veenvliet, Blender Foundation, 3D animator and web developer. http://www.macouno.com/ Volker Grassmuck, researcher at the University Sao Paulo (USP), Brasil www.vgrass.de Moderator: Martijn Arnoldus, Knowledgeland, Amsterdam www.kennisland.nl 12.30 – 13.30 Lunch break 13.30 – 15.30 Open Content, Tools and Technology Speakers Peter B.Kaufman (USA) President and Founder of Intelligent Television http://intelligenttelevision.com/ Ben Moskowitch, general coordinator of the Open Video Alliance, director of the Open Video Conference and leads the iCommons video policy project. http://openvideoalliance.org Michael Dale, Open Media for Wikipedia Technologies for Collaborative Archival Video http://danm.ucsc.edu/~dale www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Media_Projects_Overview Rufus Pollock is a Shuttleworth Foundation Fellow, an Associate of the Centre for Intellectual Property and Information Law at the University of Cambridge and a Director of the Open Knowledge Foundation. http://okfn.org Moderator: Morgan Currie is a researcher for the Institute of Network Cultures in Amsterdam. 15.45 – 17.30 Materiality and Sustainability of Culture Speakers Jeff Ubois, researcher at Fujitsu Labs of America in Sunnyvale, California, Intelligent Television and Thirteen/WNET in New York. www.ubois.com Inge Angevaare, Koninklijke BibliotheekyNational Library of the Netherlands, coordinator of the Netherlands Digital Preservation Coalition. www.ncdd.nl/en/index.php Birte Christensen-Dalsgaard, Director of Development at the State and University Library in Aarhus, Denmark http://en.statsbiblioteket.dk Hans Westerhof is Deputy Director at the Netherlands Institute for Sound and Vision. www.imagesforthefuture.org Moderator: Johan Oomen is managing the R&D department of the Netherlands Institute for Sound and Vision. http://instituut.beeldengeluid.nl ------------ Saturday November 13 - Eevening Program: 20.30 – 23.00 Best of the oXcars Venue: De Balie, Amsterdam Presented by Simona Levi, EXGAE / Free Culture Forum Barcelona From Spain, the “first international culture Awards in the digital age.” Conservas and EXGAE (a play on the Spanish collectors society SGAE, which it so much opposes) organise the OXCARS free culture event to reclaim our cultural works. Times have changed. The Internet allows information and culture to be exchanged horizontally among all citizens, and now our means of cultural production have to adapt to this new democracy – not the other way around. Because free and collaborative culture is the Culture of our time, because it’s a fact, because there’s no turning back…. EXGAE & Conservas present: The awards that will sweep the Grammys, the Goyas, the Max…The 1st non-competitive awards in the history of Culture…The 1st international Culture awards in the digital society… http://exgae.net/english/the-oxcars -------- Ticket Information: http://ecommons.tuxic.nl/?page_id=1724 (Note: reduced prices for students) For detailed program information and last minute updates check our website: www.ecommons.eu From db at dannybutt.net Fri Nov 5 03:14:52 2010 From: db at dannybutt.net (Danny Butt) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 10:44:52 +1300 Subject: [Reader-list] On recent discussions Message-ID: <303D67A4-05E5-4608-9260-D333C34F089A@dannybutt.net> A powerful group relying on silence will go to great lengths to maintain the status quo. A woman speaking out of line not only disrupts the norm with what she says, but, at a more fundamental level, threatens to not reproduce a patriarchal social order. An age-old historical response is to sexualise her behavior in order to a) regain a feeling of control; b) distract attention from the content of the speech; c) disavow responsibility for repressing critical speech by shifting the judgement to moral grounds sanctioned by a higher power; d) remind the woman that if necessary, male physical power can be applied to her body to bring her into line; e) remind other women that the price of their speech may be paid with their bodies; This is what I have seen in many forums over the last couple of weeks, but it has been made most explicit in the discussions here. I appreciate the tireless efforts of Sarai in providing a truly open and democratic forum where we can see the unvarnished expressions of those who would not only remove that right to expression for others, but demonstrate their support for personal violence in the process. For me, the discussion has been sobering and instructive, especially perhaps at its most ragged and infuriating points. Regards, Danny -- http://www.dannybutt.net From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Nov 5 03:31:06 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 03:31:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Court asks cops to file report on Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83b7797b0f18da10a79cc71acbf38d1e@mail.sarai.net> Dear Shri (self styled) Khak, thank you for forwarding this excellent report from the esteemed newspaper, 'The Pioneer' which is truly a pioneer, as far as psy-ops are concerned. My attention was drawn to the last line of the sentence, which refers to a 'self styled media critic Shuddhabrata Sengupta'. This person happens to be me. Since I have never styled myself as anything much, let alone a 'media critic' I wonder how Shikha Verma came to the understanding that I am a 'self styled' media critic. Where did she gain such a unique degree of access to my 'self' to know that I have 'styled' myself as she thinks I have? I have never met her, never spoken to her, nor ever described myself to her, or to anyone else as 'media critic'. So I fail to understand, how the prefix 'self styled' can be attached to the term 'media critic' in my case. If the correspondent can find it fit to publish her fantasies about what she thinks I have said about myself, then perhaps, we would do well to look at the rest of her report with some amount of scepticism. The Pioneer often puts words into the mouths of those whom it reports on that surprise everyone, including those who apparently said those words. In another recent report, duly forwarded to this space by Aditya Raj Kaul, another inventive Pioneer correspondent had said that Ms. Arundhati Roy had wanted freedom for Kashmir from 'naked, hungry India', when in fact she had said nothing of the sort. And had in fact expressed her anger and sadness at the airing of such a sentiment in Kashmir. This report purports to correct those fantasies after a somewhat lame fashion, but does not fail to spread disinformation. It says the meeting involved the propagation of 'hate speech', when in fact nothing of that sort occurred, and can be easily checked against the recordings of all that was said at the meeting. Meanwhile, I will wait, patiently to see what the esteemed SHO of the Tilak Marg Police Station has to report to Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha on the matter of what exactly was said at the meeting at LTG on the 21st of October. Yours, (un-styled) Shuddha On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:25:22 +0530 Sanjay Khak wrote > *Court asks cops to file report on Arundhati* > November 04, 2010 11:28:17 AM > > *Shikha Verma | New Delhi* > > A city court on Wednesday directed Delhi Police to file a status report on a > complaint filed against Hurriyat Leader SAS Geelani, author-turned-activist > Arundhati Roy and others on the charges of sedition and for their hate > speech against India in the Capital on October 21. “The Tilak Marg Station > House Officer (SHO) is directed to file a status report on November 16,” > Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said. > > Complainant Sushil Pandit submitted that in the “derogatory” speeches, the > accused had claimed that Kashmir was never part of India. *Prima facie*, a > case of sedition was made out against the accused as they had “openly > challenged the integrity and the authority” of the Government of India, > Pandit’s counsel said. “It is a case of invoking hatred, breach of peace > and > disaffection towards the Govern-ment. Being a citizen of this country, the > complainant is duly empowered by the Constitution to seek registration of an > FIR against the accused,” he argued. > > The SHO has to submit in the status report as to whether the complainant had > approached the police earlier with a complaint and what action did the > police take on it. The complaint alleged that as the Government had > “miserably failed” to initiate any action against the “culprits”. > > The counsel said, “In the session, Arundhati Roy apparently pointed toward > imaginary Kashmiris and said: ‘*Bhookha nanga Hindustan aapke sath hai’*. > She made provocative, anti-national and mischievous statements that were > clearly intended to cause public disorder and uproar in Kashmir and other > parts of India. > > She said, ‘Not only does Kashmir want *azadi* from India, India also wants > * > azadi* from Kashmir’.” > > Besides Geelani, Parliament attack convict (later acquitted) Prof SAR > Geelani and Roy, the complaint also sought prosecution of four others, > including Jammu & Kashmir University prof Sheikh Showkat Hussain, pro-Maoist > writer Varavara Rao, APDR activist Sujato Bhadra and self-styled media > critic Shuddhabrata Sengupta. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From atreyid at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 06:25:04 2010 From: atreyid at gmail.com (Atreyi Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 19:55:04 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] On Irom Sharmila's ten years of fast Message-ID: Gautam Navlakha writes about the AFSPA and a principled stand against war against people. http://sanhati.com/excerpted/2913/ Principled versus Piecemeal Approach: Repeal of AFSPA, Troops Pullout or Ending War against our People *November 2, 2010* *On 2nd November 2000, Irom Sharmila Chanu of Manipur began a fast to protest against the draconian Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), which allows the armed forces to repress the civilian population with complete impunity in the areas where the act is in force. Ten years down the line her fast still continues, though it is often interrupted by arrests on the grounds of ‘attempted suicide’ and ‘forced feeding’ through nose by the police. While Manipur has provided the stage for this struggle, Irom Sharmila has become a powerful symbol of protest against AFSPA and state repression all over the world. On the 10th anniversary of her heroic fast we salute her great courage and commitment to democratic rights with the following article in which Gautam Navlakha raises the debate whether our opposition should be limited to the repeal of AFSPA or the pullout of troops or should constitute a principled demand for the ending of all wars on our own people. - Ed.* *Principled versus Piecemeal Approach: Repeal of AFSPA, Troops Pullout or Ending War against our People* By Gautam Navlakha In order to understand the significance of Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) and our response we must understand the role of the armed forces of the union in wars of suppression. It is my contention that our opposition to AFSPA is not ONLY because it protects Armed Forces of the Union (which is how Indian constitution defines Army, Navy, Air Force and the Central Para Military Forces) but also because we, in the Civil Liberties and Democratic Rights groups, oppose policy of military suppression of our own people in the first place (at least formally considered “our own”) because it is this that necessitates protection for military forces deployed to carry out the dirty task of brutally restoring state’s authority and in its turn creates the source of legitimacy for counter-violence. Out of 626 districts in India, no less than 136 districts witnesses policy of military suppression. Of these 136 districts, 101 have been notified as “disturbed areas” where AFSPA and state level Disturbed Areas (DA) Act, either separately or concurrently, operate. In 35 of the so-called joint forces operations against “Left Wing Extremists” neither of these acts are invoked and yet the war continues. (Of course there could be some other act in operation indemnifying forces in Chattisgarh, Bihar, Orissa, Jharkhand, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, West Bengal ). However, for all practical purposes, ground reality is no different in these 35 districts spread over nine state and the 101 districts where AFSPA is notified. Second thing to note is that the central government has set aside Rs 40,000 crores for “internal security” (which falls under Ministry of Home Affairs) i.e. for wars in these districts where nearly 80% of the central paramilitary forces (whose strength is 900,000 plus 145 battalions of India Reserve battalion or 150,000 personnel) and half of the Indian Army (337,000 in J&K, and 280,000 in entire NE) is engaged in counter insurgency. Were we to add to this Rs 40,000 cr allocated towards “internal security” with what Ministry of Defense spends on “internal security” (taking merely wages and allowances and pension of this force) which comes to approximately Rs 29,000 cr the Indian government is spending a staggering sum of Rs 69,000 or say Rs 70,000 crores annually towards for these wars. This amount could suffice to pay for a universal food security Act in India. Significantly, the union finance ministry has cited paucity of funds to pay for an universal Food Security Act. There is another dimension to this which needs to be considered. In an interview to Tehelka (5 June, 2010) Union Home Secretary GK PIllai said that “Manipur has the highest police to population ratio in the country.” And yet Manipur is raising another four battalions of Manipur Commandos! Of course he did not spell out what the ratio was. Jammu & Kashmir (J & K), according to CM Omar Abdullah, has 5-7 lakhs troops (army, central paramilitary forces (CPMFs), state armed police, special forces), or say 600,000, for a population that is said to be 1.1 crore. This means a ratio of one armed soldier for 20 persons. Of course the ratio changes even more if we consider actual concentration of troops in the Kashmir valley and those districts of Jammu which have sizeable Muslim population. It could be approximately 1 armed soldier for 15 persons or even less. Recalling what the union home secretary said about Manipur, the ratio could be a lot worse. Such a heavy concentration deployed in a manner which monitors and controls the public and private lives of people creates impediments in the way for normal activities of people and causes a heavy loss of scarce human and material resources whose actual cost is yet to be calculated. To this one ought to add another dimension. As evident from the case in J & K, there is pressure on J & K to recruit and train quickly a force which can replace central forces. Thus accretion in strength of armed police gets compounded because apart from a bloated CPMF we now have bloated state level armed police formations. And like central forces protected by AFSPA these state forces have their own state level protection against prosecution for any act committed in course of “active service”. In other words these conflicts become the occasion for stupendous augmentation of personnel in existing armed formations (In 2007-08 Shivraj Patil, the then union home minister, spoke of raising 206 battalions of CPMFs over the next five years) and/or through creation of new force of either armed police battalions or forces such as Rashtriya Rifles, which was raised for fighting insurgency in J&K in 1993-94. It is also less known that armed police is trained along the lines of infantry formations of the Army. Keep in mind also the fact since 1947 not a year has passed when Indian State has not been engaged in waging an internal war (call it by any name war/armed conflict/military suppression) against our own people in some part of the country or the other. It can also be established empirically that almost all movements which picked up guns did so only after non-violent struggles were run aground by the Indian State one way or another or dismissed out of hand. In all these cases of internal wars, military (army and CPMFs in particular) is deployed for a prolonged period with enhanced powers to act on their own, i.e. minus civilian supervision. This is unlike their short term usage during riots etc where they operate under orders of the magistrate and are protected under Section 45 [Protection of Members of the Armed Forces from Arrest] of the CrPC. This is the context in which the campaign to repeal AFSPA is located. When AFSPA was passed in 1958, after a truncated debate in the Parliament, the then Union Home Minister G B Pant had assured the members of parliament that the Act was temporary and only confined to fighting the “Naga hostiles”. What was temporary became a permanent feature and can now be imposed anywhere in the Indian Union. The Parliament also never saw it fit to debate/review this Act since its enactment. Prior to the UPA government instituting this review process the Indian Supreme Court had examined this Act. The judicial process had resulted in the Supreme Court in 1997 upholding the legal validity of AFSPA asserting that Parliament had the powers to enact such an Act. The review of the Act undertaken by the Justice Jeevan Reddy Committee as per its terms of reference was not mandated to recommend its repeal. However, having decided to ask for its repeal it went onto to suggest that provisions of the Act could be incorporated in the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) 2004. Thus both the Supreme Court in its 1997 judgement, as well as the Justice Reddy Committee in its report, have upheld the need to empower the Armed Forces of the Union when they are deployed for prolonged period in an area declared to be “Disturbed”. The other drawback of the Reddy Committee was that the review and public hearings that followed were confined to the north east, particularly, Manipur and Assam. The conspicuous absence of J & K from its purview was most unfortunate. It needs to be reiterated that the Armed Forces of the Union, empowered with AFSPA, is introduced NOT to curb armed militancy but meant to control the civilian population from extending support to secessionist activities. It thus antagonizes more and more people and swells the ranks of militants contrary to official pretence that they are fighting only armed groups. This is clear from the ground reality of J & K with a huge deployment exceeding 6 lakh troops (which comprises army, CPMFs, state armed police etc). Bunkers, checkpoint, road blocks are manned by CRPF/BSF in towns and Rashtriya Rifles (RR, army’s 66 battalion strong counter insurgency force) maintains vigil in rural areas. Virtually every neighbourhood in urban area boasts a camp of security forces and between every 4-5 villages there is a camp of RR. Just Srinagar town has 400 bunkers, thus removal of 16, under the current offer by the central government, is inconsequential. This level of deployment remains at a time when it is officially claimed that the number of militants is no more than 600-700, and no more than 250 remain in Kashmir valley. Movements of people on roads and bazar is regulated with frequent demands to show their IDs and frisking and searching of bags. It is a known fact that anyone in area declared “Disturbed” found without a ID can suffer anything from having to bribe his way to freedom to becoming a victim of enforced disappearance. Again the very deployment of security forces necessitates occupation of land and buildings. According to an estimate in J&K, Armed Forces of the Union occupy legally and illegally about 400 sq kms and occupy more than 1572 buildings which includes 98 schools. This impacts normal life and economic activities. However, all this is a quintessential aspect of counter-insurgency policy which is meant to break the link between armed groups with the people through recourse to force or threat of use of force. In other words, while atrocities may come down if the legal cover indemnifying the security forces is withdrawn. But it would be naïve to believe that atrocities will cease if this cover is withdrawn. This is because atrocities are inherent in the very nature of counter-insurgency, which is meant to coerce a people into submission. Findings of civil liberties groups as well as official inquiries undertaken from time to time have also shown that once AFSPA comes into operation civil administration begins to play the second fiddle. Instead of “coming to the aid of civil administration” it virtually replaces them. Thus “law and order” which pertains to civilian domain and “internal security”, which is the raison d’etre of AFSPA, are difficult to keep apart. In real life the lines gets blurred to the point that even traffic management invites the over bearing presence of the Armed Forces of the Union. Lately, Armed Forces of the Union have been entrusted with running of schools, health centres, road building and now construction and management of micro hydel projects (as in J&K). Thus more and more of matters which were considered part of civil administration are becoming part of AFU activity all in the name of ‘operation sadbhavna’. We have in recent times also witnessed the heads of coordination centres, invariably, corps commander belonging to the Army, intervening in public domain with their own assessment of the situation. The most reprehensible was the statement of the GOC-in-C of the Northern Command who characterized non-violent protests in Kashmir as being “agitational terrorism”. This amounted to declaring all protestors as “terrorists” and thus made them legitimate targets of the firepower of the Indian security forces. The J & K’s ‘elected’ government, let alone seek his immediate transfer, refused even to snub him for his outrageous statement. Between June 11, 2010 and October 15, 2010 110 civilians were killed (all victim of bullet, tear gas shell, of beating), 1500 cases of firearm/tear gas shell/pellet injuries, 500 cases of severe beatings and 38 instances of blindness caused by bullet or pellet or marbles used as projectile in slingshot used by CRPF. Despite these killings and serious injuries caused, just a single FIR has been filed in a single case against CRPF for unauthorized firing killing a youth, but no one has been arrested. In other words civilian protestors are easy pickings. Problem gets compounded because promotion and reward provide material incentive for extra-judicial killings. Often the officers of the security forces adopt a position which is at odds with that of the political authority. The most recent example was witnessed in Assam where both the Corps Commander as well as the Governor (usually a retired general) came out opposed to a political initiative to begin dialogue with ULFA. This is direct fallout of employing security forces over a long duration in internal situations which creates a kind of vested interest and where they come to enjoy untrammeled power. Arguably, as the situation worsens with recourse to military suppression, it throws up its own compulsions where some militant or renegade groups begin to browbeat civilians. There are times when inimical neighbours exploit this situation to fan the fuels of militancy. I believe that such a situation can be dealt with most effectively only when there is a political process and the government appears sincere and serious in addressing the legitimate grievances and takes recourse to democratic solutions. If it is respecting right of self-determination in Kashmir or Manipur or Naga areas, or pursuing the path of dialogue with the Maoists, to believe that problems get resolved when people are suppressed is contrary to ground reality. J & K ought to be the reminder that despite the most horrendous 20 years of repression and most extraordinary control that grips the lives of people in Kashmir, the demand for ‘Azaadi’ from India remains intact. Now having gone through the debate over AFSPA for over three decade, our struggle saw the Supreme Court uphold the constitutional validity of the act (in NPMHR vs Union of India 1997), albeit suggesting some minimal safeguards in shape of six monthly review of its working or defined strictly what “shortest possible time” for handing over a person arrested by the Armed Forces of the Union to the police. Next round of our collective efforts saw appointment of Justice Jeevan Reddy Committee (2004-05) which called for repeal of AFSPA. Because, the erudite retired judge felt the title had come to acquire pejorative meaning, he suggested that AFSPA’s provisions should be incorporated in UAPA. And now even as the demand grows for repeal of AFSPA, to coincide with ten years of Irom Sharmila’s fast-unto-death, there are efforts afoot to persuade us that we become pragmatic/realistic and settle for dilution of some provision or amendments to certain sections of AFSPA or for its step-by–step withdrawal from a state. Thus the struggle is not only confined to one part of the problem which was AFSPA, it now gets further weakened with call for being sensible and settles for dilution/partial withdrawal. While it is correct that removal of AFSPA could mean withdrawal of the army, in particular from counter-insurgency duties (which forms part of its secondary role), since the army does not want to operate without indemnity against prosecution. But it is futile to believe that, in face of near unanimity in the parliament between the political parties, powers enjoyed by the Armed Forces of the Union in ‘disturbed’ areas will get curbed, and we will get only dilution/partial withdrawal of AFSPA. It would NOT mean an end to military suppression/ war/armed conflict per se. Because state armed constabularies too are deployed, and looking at the experience of Manipur or J & K and the role of the state level forces in the nine states where joint operations are going on against the Maoists, there is absolutely no reason to believe that they are any less brutish and dastardly. This is evident from the recent incidents in Manipur which were perpetrated by Manipur commandos, or in J&K large scale war crimes were committed by the Special Operations Group/Special Task Force of the J&K police or the horrendous record of state forces of nine states where anti-Maoist operations are going on. Thus, for one, we might get rid of AFSPA and the army partially. And secondly, we will see them get replaced by state armed forces and state level DA Act. In other words our major concern about ending the use of military suppression to resolve political problems will not be addressed. All in all, a piecemeal approach focuses on merely one aspect of the conflict. The conventional wisdom is that this is better than nothing or that at least it can provide immediate relief for civilians in the conflict zone. While this appears attractive, it does not, unfortunately, resolve the predicament we face which has become worse now that there is near unanimous consensus among all the parliamentary parties, from left to right, ruling out the repeal of AFSPA, and there exists a fractured support even for pulling out army from the theatre of internal wars. Indeed if one has to settle for a piecemeal approach why should we not replace the call for repeal of AFSPA with call for withdrawal of military forces? Because, if we have to have a piecemeal approach why not explore the possibility of achieving our objective by demanding withdrawal of Army and the CPMFs from counter insurgency? There are many retired and serving army officers who believe that army’s primary responsibility has been compromised and discipline has been affected by making Indian army focus more on its secondary role (of aiding civil administration in conflict or calamity). They also feel that while protection is essential if army is called in and therefore AFSPA should remain, they favour withdrawal of army from counter insurgency as being necessary. Besides, calling for repeal of AFSPA has been made complex with most political parties (including Left parties and Congress) in favour of pullout of army but they are not in favour of repeal of AFSPA or its revocation where army has been deployed. However, even this leaves much to desire. There is another section of armed forces which favour Army’s induction in internal security affairs because power and pelf accompany such a role. They also happen to outnumber those who are against it. This view is not only the official position but the army is engaged in honing its counter insurgency skills as shown in army’s doctrine of sub-conventional warfare and doctrine of perception management (an important part of counter insurgency). Something unstated is also the fact that “disturbed areas” provide army an occasion to shake off civilian control and garner resources. Thus call for pullout of the army can and has been also countered by saying that Article 355 of Constitution read together with 2(A) of Union List empowers central government to deploy central forces in situations of internal security. And that whatever may have been the cause once there is rebellion it has to be put down, if need be by the Army. So a fait accompli is offered to us. Thus it is abundantly clear that a piecemeal approach, either demanding repeal of AFSPA or withdrawal of army, are not without problems and do not adequately address the issue. I am reminded of what happened when POTA was revoked. We were told by many a progressive commentator to be happy at a half victory since confession to police, while in their custody, was dropped. What these progressives failed to realize was that rest of POTA got incorporated in Unlawful Activities Prevention Act 1967 (which got further strengthened in 2008) and which by now has become ever more lethal a threat than TADA or POTA. Take another example. Indian government offered a sop to people of Manipur after the rape and murder of Manorama Devi by the Assam Rifles in shape of withdrawal of AFSPA from Imphal. The result was that instead of the Assam Rifles now Manipur Commandos carry out killing in Imphal (and elsewhere too) since they enjoy protection provided by the state government. Thus AFSPA may not be in operation in Imphal but conditions in Imphal are no different, and no better than elsewhere in Manipur, point being that very often a half measure ends up biting us and leaves us worse off than before. Will this mean that non-state groups can continue fighting while state demilitarises? I doubt it. No to war against our own people robs even non-state actors of their source legitimacy. If the state does not wage war, i.e. there is no prolonged deployment and empowerment of military forces against our own people, why would people or any political group take up arms? If there is a possibility of non-violently resolving matters, including possibilities of transforming state and society, why would anyone take to armed resistance? There is no natural propensity of people to opt for armed resistance. Indeed the prospects of people taking to arms is directly linked to Indian state’s propensity to use military suppression as “mother of all policies” against popular movements demanding either right of self-determination or radical transformation. But are there not groups which possess weapons or believe in armed resistance? Mere possession of weapons does not mean declaration of war against the state. Also opting for armed resistance is never an automatic choice rather it is a proposition which is contested and debated within revolutionary parties and liberation groups prior to decision being taken. In an interview given to The Hindu (April 14, 2010) Cherukuri Rajkumar aka Azad had reminded that it was the “imposition of the ban (against the CPI(ML) (PW) that had led the Party and the mass organizations to take up arms in the first place…….What shook the rulers at that time (in 1978) and compelled them to declare Jagtyala and Sircila taluks in Karimnagar district of North Telengana as disturbed areas in 1978 was not the armed struggle of the Maoists (which had suffered a complete setback …by 1972) but the powerful (movement against) anti-feudal order in the countryside….” Were the State not to wage war against people, the chances of the debate veering towards armed resistance gets reduced. It is also worth remembering that there are, according to International Action Network on Small Arms, an estimated 40 million private weapons in India. It does not require rocket science to believe that these tens of millions of weapons are mostly in the possession of those classes and castes in Indian society who wield power and are privileged. This reality, and an India, which for all its verbosity about non-violence, is one of the most heavily armed state both in terms of accumulation of destructive power of its arsenal as well as size of its military force, which gets force-multiplied by draconian laws, and thus enables the ruling classes to practice ‘slow genocide’ against its own people. Therefore, I believe we should be pitching for something that helps us focus on the fundamental concern and not its symptom, ( militancy being in essence a manifestation against oppression) to enable us to argue for peaceful and democratic way out. Therefore, we should say ‘No to War Against Our Own People’. In other words, ten years of irom Sharmila’s heroic fast and more than four decades of struggle against AFSPA should convince us that the time has come for us to demand an end to war against our own people as the principled and realistic stance. Once we accept legitimacy of wars against our own people we enable the state to argue for AFSPA, DA Act etc. Of course those who believe that AFSPA alone should be repealed but wars against our own people should carry on will oppose this because they believe that no state can allow any non-state group to overthrow it. But they must have the courage of their conviction to come out and say so rather than hide behind the façade of being “pacifist” while intellectually supporting the policy of military suppression and the blood-letting that ensues. But those of us who argue that the State must give up prosecuting wars against our own people must seriously consider a course correction, lest we are led to the ‘desolation row’ through a piecemeal effort. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 11:43:53 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 11:43:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Godhra man held for planting Ajmer bomb Message-ID: Godhra man held for planting Ajmer bomb Nitesh Kumar Sharma & Kshitiz Gaur, TNN, Nov 5, 2010, 03.45am IST JAIPUR/AJMER: Suspects in the 2002 post-Godhra riots appear to be in the crosshairs of the Rajasthan Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS). The ATS arrested a second man from Gujarat, in the Ajmer dargah blast case late on Wednesday, two days after it caught Harshad Bhai Solanki, also an accused in the Best Bakery case, from a village in Vadodara. The ATS said Mukesh Vasani, an anti-cow slaughter activist, was picked up from Godhra. The ATS said he had conducted a recce of the dargah three days before planting explosives at the famous Sufi shrine. Three persons had died and 15 injured in the blast that occurred on October 11, 2007. Sources said Vasani was helped in the planting of bomb by a woman whose name has not been revealed by the ATS. Sources said police were probing whether Mukesh too had a role in the Best Bakery case. Over a dozen Muslims had died when the Bakery was burned down on March 1, 2002 following post-Godhra riots in Gujarat. The ATS has so far arrested five men, including senior RSS functionary Indresh Kumar, in the dargah case. Mukesh was on Thursday produced before an Ajmer court and remanded in police custody till November 6. The two arrests have left many surprised as the ATS in its dargah chargesheet has not mentioned the names of the two suspects. The ATS had recently launched a search for Swami Aseemanand, another alleged mastermind in the dargah blast, in Dangs area of Gujarat. It is suspected that Mukesh was in close contact with Aseemanand, who was heading a campaign against cow-slaughter. Vasani had allegedly joined Hindu hardliners after the Sabarmati train carnage at Godhra in 2002 and later got close to Sunil Joshi and Swami Aseemanand, both key plotters in the Ajmer blast. Joshi had allegedly given Vasani the responsibility of planting bombs. "He came to Ajmer before the blast and went to dargah several times to see the security system and pick the right place to plant the bomb. Vasani stayed there for three days before the blast and planted the bomb at at a place where hundreds of devotees had gathered at the shrine for roza on October 11, 2007," said an ATS source. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Godhra-man-held-for-planting-Ajmer-bomb/articleshow/6874262.cms From agora158 at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 14:27:13 2010 From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 09:57:13 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On recent discussions In-Reply-To: <303D67A4-05E5-4608-9260-D333C34F089A@dannybutt.net> References: <303D67A4-05E5-4608-9260-D333C34F089A@dannybutt.net> Message-ID: Thank you for a well articulate letter, Danny! I think you are very true when you point out the special symbolic load of a woman speaking her mind. I am raised as catholic and remember well Paulus "woman, be quite in the church". We live in Taliban ages with women stoned to death or silenced to death. The only women allowed to speak out speak from the television screens and sell cars or furniture or have talkshows as Ophra. We need women voices to be heard. As Mikhail Bachtin wrote we need a more polyphonic society where all voices have a possibility to be listened to. Ana On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:44 PM, Danny Butt wrote: > A powerful group relying on silence will go to great lengths to maintain > the status quo. A woman speaking out of line not only disrupts the norm with > what she says, but, at a more fundamental level, threatens to not reproduce > a patriarchal social order. An age-old historical response is to sexualise > her behavior in order to > > a) regain a feeling of control; > > b) distract attention from the content of the speech; > > c) disavow responsibility for repressing critical speech by shifting the > judgement to moral grounds sanctioned by a higher power; > > d) remind the woman that if necessary, male physical power can be applied > to her body to bring her into line; > > e) remind other women that the price of their speech may be paid with their > bodies; > > This is what I have seen in many forums over the last couple of weeks, but > it has been made most explicit in the discussions here. I appreciate the > tireless efforts of Sarai in providing a truly open and democratic forum > where we can see the unvarnished expressions of those who would not only > remove that right to expression for others, but demonstrate their support > for personal violence in the process. For me, the discussion has been > sobering and instructive, especially perhaps at its most ragged and > infuriating points. > > Regards, > > Danny > > -- > http://www.dannybutt.net > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci From db at dannybutt.net Fri Nov 5 15:02:12 2010 From: db at dannybutt.net (Danny Butt) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 22:32:12 +1300 Subject: [Reader-list] On recent discussions In-Reply-To: References: <303D67A4-05E5-4608-9260-D333C34F089A@dannybutt.net> Message-ID: <8D8C8D15-0B3C-41F5-BC64-C9B6FF3F2CCE@dannybutt.net> Many thanks Ana! If I can clarify one point, I should note that my primary understanding of the logic of the attacks on Roy - which I do think approaches a universal - comes from my own experience in the English ex-colonies of Australia and New Zealand. Here we are constantly assailed in the media with the assumption of endemic oppression of women in Islamic and indigenous communities in particular; while patriarchy in European communities is routinely glossed over. Yet the same strategies are applied constantly in our supposedly-enlightened nations which like to consider themselves the measure of all others. I'm mindful of Yasir's comment that the discussion is primarily taking place in India, with many layers of nuance which I, as someone who has merely visited, have little knowledge of. For that reason, I would like to keep this discussion close to the actual comments on the mailing list rather than raising the spectre of the Taliban (or the Catholic church) which I know little about. But I do think I have seen enough sexualised attacks on women activists on email lists to offer an analysis of what I see as a pattern, and I hope that this comment has some value for others, and of course I am also grateful for critical feedback where my comments are inappropriate. Regards, Danny On 5/11/2010, at 9:57 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: > Thank you for a well articulate letter, Danny! I think you are very true when you point out the special symbolic load of a woman speaking her mind. I am raised as catholic and remember well Paulus "woman, be quite in the church". We live in Taliban ages with women stoned to death or silenced to death. > The only women allowed to speak out speak from the television screens and sell cars or furniture or have talkshows as Ophra. We need women voices to be heard. As Mikhail Bachtin wrote we need a more polyphonic society where all voices have a possibility to be listened to. > Ana > > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:44 PM, Danny Butt wrote: > A powerful group relying on silence will go to great lengths to maintain the status quo. A woman speaking out of line not only disrupts the norm with what she says, but, at a more fundamental level, threatens to not reproduce a patriarchal social order. An age-old historical response is to sexualise her behavior in order to > > a) regain a feeling of control; > > b) distract attention from the content of the speech; > > c) disavow responsibility for repressing critical speech by shifting the judgement to moral grounds sanctioned by a higher power; > > d) remind the woman that if necessary, male physical power can be applied to her body to bring her into line; > > e) remind other women that the price of their speech may be paid with their bodies; > > This is what I have seen in many forums over the last couple of weeks, but it has been made most explicit in the discussions here. I appreciate the tireless efforts of Sarai in providing a truly open and democratic forum where we can see the unvarnished expressions of those who would not only remove that right to expression for others, but demonstrate their support for personal violence in the process. For me, the discussion has been sobering and instructive, especially perhaps at its most ragged and infuriating points. > > Regards, > > Danny > > -- > http://www.dannybutt.net > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > http://www.crusading.se > Gondolgatan 2 l tr > 12832 Skarpnäck > Sweden > tel +468-943288 > mobil 4670-3213370 > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. > — Leonardo da Vinci From chintan.backups at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 17:54:12 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:54:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] International Research Grant for Children's Literature Message-ID: Details here: http://blog.prathambooks.org/2010/11/international-research-grant-for.html From aliens at dataone.in Fri Nov 5 18:35:00 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 18:35:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] PROBE CHARGES AGAINST TEESTA, COURT TELLS SIT Message-ID: <004501cb7cea$0e5516c0$2aff4440$@in> TIMES NEWS NETWORK Ahmedabad: A day after approaching the court hearing the Naroda Gam case, former aide of Teesta Setalvad of Citizens for Peace and Justice, Rais Khan expressed his willingness before the court of Gulbarg Society massacre case to reveal how the social activist allegedly tutored witnesses to launch an attack against chief minister Narendra Modi. Khan filed an application urging the court to make him a witness in the case so that he could throw light on how Teesta had actually controlled the witnesses and filed false affidavits in the Supreme Court. Acting on his application, special judge BU Joshi directed the Supreme Court-appointed special investigation team (SIT) to record Khan's statement, investigate the matter and submit a report in the court by November 18. However, the judge did not issue any order on Khan's plea that he be made a witness under the provision of Section 311 of CrPC. Khan reiterated how the witnesses were tutored and he himself offered his services in detaining the witnesses of the Gulbarg Society case in a flat in Shah-e-Alam to avoid any deposition before the Nanavati-Shah commission, which was probing the 2002 riots case. The witnesses in the case have been accusing the judge of being prejudiced towards witnesses and have sought his transfer from the case. Their plea in this regard has been dismissed by the principal sessions judge and later by Gujarat high court. The issue is pending before the SC as well as the chief justice of the high court on administrative side. 'She tried to use Vitthalbhai' In his application, Rais Khan claimed that before joining Zakia Jafri in filing an application against Modi, other politicians and bureaucrats, Teesta had planned to file a complaint against the state machinery through Vitthalbhai Pandya, father of former state homer minister Haren Pandya. This was because Vitthalbhai was charging Modi with Pandya's murder and demanding a thorough probe into the incident. However, Khan claimed, Vitthalbhai was not convinced with the list of persons to be held responsible for Pandya's murder and did not sign the complaint, which was prepared by Teesta and her lawyer Suhail Tirmizi. By describing this incident, Khan has challenged Zakia's statement before court last month that she had not taken any help from Teesta. TNN From aliens at dataone.in Fri Nov 5 20:57:35 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:57:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE Message-ID: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu 4fA (AFP) - May 27, 2010 SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end unrest in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey found that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent in 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should belong to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how they saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant source of tension between India and Pakistan. In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of the insurgency in 1989. India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but a recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 22:55:09 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 22:55:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu > 4fA > > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 > > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end unrest > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. > > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey found > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. > > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent in > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should belong > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. > > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. > > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. > > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how they > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant source > of tension between India and Pakistan. > > > > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of > the insurgency in 1989. > > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but a > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From samvitr at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 23:11:56 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:11:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: Inder, can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. This kind of behavior is very juvenile. -SR On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > > > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu > > 4fA > > > > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 > > > > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and > > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end > unrest > > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. > > > > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey > found > > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour > > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. > > > > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent > in > > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should > belong > > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. > > > > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite > > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, > > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. > > > > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the > > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de > > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. > > > > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? > > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. > > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how > they > > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant > source > > of tension between India and Pakistan. > > > > > > > > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian > > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. > > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a > > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". > > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of > > the insurgency in 1989. > > > > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but > a > > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 23:52:37 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:52:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: Samvit... this is art in the form of psychological torture! The same 'the communal separatists' are unleashing on innocent common Kashmiris.. That is how 'rent-a-cause activist' supporters behave when truth haunts them! May the festival of lights bring some hope for Kashmiris. On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: > Inder, > can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not > understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this > forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others > but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. > This kind of behavior is very juvenile. > -SR > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu > > > 4fA > > > > > > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 > > > > > > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and > > > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end > > unrest > > > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. > > > > > > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey > > found > > > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour > > > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. > > > > > > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the > sub-continent > > in > > > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should > > belong > > > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. > > > > > > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite > > > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the > survey, > > > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. > > > > > > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the > > > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de > > > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. > > > > > > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? > > > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. > > > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how > > they > > > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant > > source > > > of tension between India and Pakistan. > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian > > > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. > > > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a > > > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". > > > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption > of > > > the insurgency in 1989. > > > > > > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, > but > > a > > > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Nov 6 06:14:49 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 06:14:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reading 'A Letter from New York' for Kashmir by Mohamad Junaid Message-ID: <73C33ACF-7696-425B-86F8-580D26878BA4@sarai.net> Dear All, for a very long time now, I have unhesitatingly supported the demand that comes from within Kashmir for Azadi, or freedom, from the cruel occupations enacted by India, and by Pakistan. on Kashmir. At the same time, I have been relentless in my demand from my Kashmiri friends, that they substantiate their concept of Azadi to mean something more than the mere iteration of empty nationalism. Many people on this list have been familiar with my criticism of the Indian occupation of Kashmir, but few might be familiar with my (equally trenchant) critique of the vacuousness of much of Kashmiri nationalism and of Islamist politics in Kashmir (which, I believe can very easily, over time, take a turn towards towards Islamist Fascism in Kashmir, just as Hindu Chauvinist politics in India is the real and actual kernel of a particular form of Indian Fascism). I have time and again spoken to my Kashmiri friends, both in Kashmir, and in the Kashmiri diaspora of the need for setting forth of a vision of the horizon of politics of a future free Kashmir, (and therefore in the region) that is open-ended, evolving and generous to the complexities of history and the present. I think that the document that I am forwarding below contains the foundations of precisely what I have been seeking. I think it lays the foundation of a new politics and a new ethical vision, not only for Kashmir, but for South Asia in general. I think that I am not wrong in saying that the writer of this document was once a member of this list (and perhaps still is.) Sometimes, when I read the utter trash that Indian nationalists and all those who wish to continue the cruel occupation of Kashmir, write on this list, I feel depressed, exhausted and demoralized, because I feel nothing but fatigue in the face of the meanness and viciousness and pathetic falsehoods that underlie the premises of the occupation. And then, rarely, occasionally, along comes a thought, like this one, written by Mohmad Junaid, finely crafted, passionate, beautifully argued and shining for its compassion and generosity, that can actullay in its own way shine a light on the path of the liberation of much more than Kashmir. It lifts my spirits. If there is one reason why Kashmir needs Azadi (liberation from the yoke of the occupation) today, it is because Azadi can lay the groundwork of the realization of a vision such as this. I hope that it can serve as a basis for a freedom charter for Kashmir that is a free and open space, and a bridge to a lasting peace that we can hope to experience, in our lifetime, in South Asia. warm regards, Shuddha --------- A LETTER FROM NEW YORK, ADDRESSED TO KASHMIRIS, FROM MOHAMAD JUNAID Dear fellow Kashmiris, I’m writing this letter from New York, a place far away, yet so close to everything. This city can make you forget, by filching reality away from you. But it also reminds you perpetually, by bringing you close to a different reality, through the pain and suffering of others. There are exiled specimens from all over the world here (yes, mostly those permitted to come to the US). There are Irish and Greeks, escapees from famines and wars. There are Jews from Germany and Germans from Russia, ones who survived persecution. There are Latinos from El Salvador, Peru, Guatemala, and Bolivia, who fled Western-backed dictatorial regimes in their countries in the 1970s and 80s. There are Africans who narrowly missed genocide in Southern Sudan. There are Kurds from Turkey, and Berber from North Africa, driven out of their lands by years of conflict. And, then there are African Americans, who were forcibly brought hundreds of years before to slave for their White masters, and who, despite recent claims of dawning of an age of “post-racial America,” are still groveling at the bottom of the socio-economic heap. Their stories tell a similar conclusion: The world is shrinking for small nationalities and powerless minorities. Large and powerful nations in their desire for control over more territory and unchallenged right to inflict violence run roughshod over legitimate rights of smaller and weaker peoples. Those who claim a permanent “state of exception” have shred international law, which is supposed to guarantee the right of self-determination of nations both “big and small,” to pieces. Persecution of minorities all over the world continues in spite of numerous declarations to uphold human rights. Powerful countries use these declarations selectively, and instrumentally to pursue their parochial goals. Europe, which has been claiming to be the flag-bearer of universal human civilization for centuries, is again in the grip of hatred, readying itself for yet another sacrificial genocide; so is America, whose citizens are being whipped into frenzy by racist, xenophobic, and ignorant politicians. Meanwhile, the Muslim world is hurtled from one crisis to another. Already an object of global misunderstanding and hatred, it continues to fail to produce an enlightened, effective, and coherent response. It either produces nihilistic violence of extremist groups like Al-Qaeda, or builds examples par excellence of vulgar exploitation like Dubai; both based in one way or other on a bastardized, logical extreme of Western rationality, and both far from the lived experience of most Muslims and the spirit of their faith. Amidst all this, where do the founts of hope lie? As Kashmiris, one of these numerous, struggling, small nationalities, caught in the whirlpool of forces of imperialist domination and religio-nationalist chauvinisms of recently formed states—while the grinding machine of military oppression keeps adding to the long history of our suffering—where must we situate ourselves? How must we imagine, think, and plan a new life? First, let me say this: the continued existence, persistence, and resilience of Kashmiris, and of other oppressed peoples around the world, is itself indicative of the fact that the struggle is on: between the coercive, militarized reality and the power of free imagination, between the drudgery of dominating others and the beauty of resistance, between the technologies of power and the critical practices of the subject, between calculation and compassion, between the patriarchal, paternalistic hatred and the love for justice, between national fascism and national liberation, between metal and heart, bullet and wound, between the shadow of death and the canopy of life. The hope first springs from the existence of this struggle; and this struggle, lets keep in mind, is happening not between nations, cultures, or civilizations, but within them. Given this, I would suggest then that we rethink our struggle, and posit it not in terms of Kashmir and India—as territorial entities, with settled national identities (and obviously not in terms of Muslim and non-Muslim, or for that matter, East and West), but as between the opaque rationale that leads to militarized brutalization of the other, and the moral reasoning that necessitates resistance. This reconstitution of our struggle opens us up comprehensively: it leads to openness toward the unknown, and the unknowable others, to radical new ideas and life, to an un-predetermined future. It evokes the obligation to build alliances of solidarity with those others whose suffering is invisible to us, and whose tortured voice we are unable to listen. It demands that the plan for a new life not be based on, or become, a model. The un-predetermined future, however, does not mean an unplanned, chaotic path into the future either. It would be logically challenging (and useless), in any case, to plan an unplanned, chaotic path. What it means is that the future free and independent Kashmir, to continue to remain free and independent, and to continuously live the moment of freedom, should not replicate any socio-economic blueprints (especially the ones handed out by institutions of the hegemonic global economic order), nor should it accept the kind of modular democracy a tragicomic version of which Indian government makes us Kashmiris suffer every few years. It also means that we challenge those who vacuously exhort us toward setting up of an “Islamic state.” We must renounce these imposters for their historically and logically unsound claims, and constructively dislodge the formalistic aspects of their thinking, while, if possible, retrieve the (deeply buried, and often turned- insignificant) ethical core of Islam, which calls for universal solidarity and social justice. Instead of seeking to build a state based on religious ideology (which in essence would not look much different from India, Pakistan, Iran, Israel, or the US and would always be exclusivist) we must build an independent, free society based on faith—faith and trust in each other. This confidence in each other would mean getting rid of the fear of the other, and of mutual suspicion; and in consequence it would mean a society that doesn’t feel a need to keep an eye on each other, that renounces surveillance, and its executing spies. We must keep in mind though that this mutual confidence cannot be grounded in our sameness, but in the unreservedly given acceptance to the uniqueness of our separate beings as individuals and cultural groups, brought together through a freely chosen fellowship, as full and meaningful participants in the society that is always fluid and becoming. We must not think like the Indian nationalists do: that we are one as Kashmiris; that there is something called “Kashmiriness,” which like some sort of genetic or chemical substance, or blood, we all have in our bodies. Instead of oneness, we must think in terms of togetherness. The basis of our togetherness is freedom, democracy and dignity. I often think of the three ideas together: there can be no democracy without freedom and dignity, nor can there be freedom without democracy and dignity, and obviously freedom and democracy is dignity. Only such society which freely allows and appreciates criticism, and not in an empty, meaningless fashion, as is the trend in the West these days, but keeps itself open to progressive transformation through critique (progressive: what continuously expands the horizon of freedom and rights), is worthy of being called truly democratic. And dignity arises from freedom from suspicion and stereotype, and therefore from a positive trust that the society places in its fellow citizens and cultural groups. When I think of Azadi I see freedom, democracy, and dignity as its inseparable core. You and I know that we have been regularly asked, both by those who oppose us and those who support us, to explicitly state what we mean when we ‘demand’ Azadi. We have often articulated it only in formal terms: that we want independence from India—a freedom from its illegitimate sovereignty over our lives (and yes, those who sit at the helm of coercive power, have refused even to hear this clear statement of our Azadi). But we know that Azadi goes far beyond this voluntary separation from a forced union. It touches upon the core of what it means to live as a small, but dignified nationality in a world where the global leviathan of big capital and its associated uneven crises meets, in a violent orgy, the international space saturated with muscular, bellicose, (often nuclear armed) nation- states. Our search for Azadi is in reality the only choice left in this din. Not that we can compete with big nations in their pursuit of dominance (I see desire for dominance as a sort of death-wish, madness—a mutually-assured destruction), but we truly don’t want to, even if we could. We don’t demand to create just another state in the world; that wouldn’t make any sense. Our demand for Azadi is a clear need and aspiration—and a last, desperate wish, if you will; so that when the big states would have mutually assured our collective destruction, we could know that we at least lived a better life, and it will be sweeter because we would have done it without brawn, bruises, or too much money. That is what we mean when we say we have a right to decide our own future (path, if not destination). Big bully states have decided their and our future, and we can’t escape the moment when it all vanishes—this Utopia that things will always remain the same, but we demand that till that time is upon us let’s find our own way in this world. We will go down with you, but we can’t be forced to walk along with you all the way to that final burial ground. My fellow Kashmiris, we have borne the wounds of our collective suffering on our bodies. And yes for the Azadi that we talk about it is a price absolutely worth paying. Our bodies are testament enough that we deserve Azadi. We, however, don’t demand our own Azadi only, but Azadi for all the suffering, small nations and minorities with whom we stand in moral solidarity—a principle we derive equally from Islam and other faiths, and from the universal norm of just coexistence that underlie our collective life on planet earth. If our Azadi has the moral content that it has, it would not be so difficult to answer the questions that will unquestionably face us in the future, after (and before) our inevitable independence. Since we can’t deny that we live in that coercive, real world which we want to cast off to build a new Kashmiri society, we will have to engage with it, but on our own terms, in the spirit of Azadi—Azadi as a living principle. What will be our relationship with the states of India, Pakistan, or China? And, what will be our relationship with the peoples of these countries and the world? Azadi demands unconditional friendship with our neighbors. We must offer this unconditional friendship, an offer that will never be withdrawn, to both the big and small states in our neighborhood. It would mean never to harm them, or their mutual relations, but to actively foster healthy relations in South and Greater Asia, to infuse in them a spirit of mutual cooperation. For the peoples of these neighboring, and other countries, it would mean unrestricted access to Kashmir and its sites of pilgrimage; except for those whose visits are proven to have a violent intent: that would lead to violence against humans and nature. In the same spirit of Azadi wouldn’t Kashmiris happily accept the presence of those whose safety is threatened in their own countries of origin for speaking for justice and truth? Who wouldn’t offer with gratitude Arundhati Roy a Kashmiri citizenship? Over many years, and perhaps centuries now, Kashmir’s Muslims have had a fractured relationship with Kashmir’s Hindus. The relationship between Muslims and Sikhs, if not so laden with power, coercion, and retribution, has remained fraught with potential violence. The same has been the case within Kashmir’s various Muslim communities and social groups. I don’t suggest that all these fractures can be easily sutured, but it is incumbent upon all of us, and comparatively easier, to remove violence from these relationships. A new life deserves a chance. History must not be allowed to come in the way of building a shared future. Within Kashmir our society requires gestures of friendship not only between communities that will constitute the Kashmiri nation, but also among individuals, from within their own and other groups. It is much more an obligation upon Kashmir’s Muslim majority to extend a hand of true and everlasting friendship to Kashmir’s minorities. Our Azadi, the basis of our new life as a nation and society, is deeply connected with Kashmir as a place. This place, however, is a place of generosity and hospitality, and not of exclusion or hostility. Our ties to Kashmir are not natural, but of nature. And by that, my friends, I mean we have a strong obligation as grateful residents of Kashmir to prevent relations of exploitation between humans and nature. Nature is not a natural resource. It is a collective gift, which has to be judiciously shared with, and protected for, humans and non-human forms of life, now and for future. What would Azadi be worth for Kashmir if its trees were gone; if its rivers and lakes dried out and its mountains were dug up; if its air was polluted and the soil was full of chemicals; if its bears and snow leopards, those other proud residents of Kashmir, were forced to come down, or hunted out of their natural habitats? What forms would our sources of sustenance—our economy—take in terms of an Azadi that is in a respectful relationship with nature? What would we produce, and how would we consume? How would a balance be struck between production and consumption, which is in ethical alignment with our obligation towards nature as well as our principles of justified needs? Must we not do away with economic rationalism, industrial overproduction, and runaway consumerism? And how would we exchange our goods and services? Shouldn’t small-scale business become a principle and normative mode of exchange in our society, one that will remain ever watchful against predatory corporatization? My friends, our journey towards freedom began the day we realized that we need to be free. As time has gone by, more and more of us have understood that it is only by struggling and achieving freedom for Kashmir and its residents that we can truly and authentically live our lives. Our work of construction has, accordingly, long begun, and it will require an extraordinary effort of will and tremendous endurance to create a sort of society that is really worth living in. We wouldn’t have succeeded in achieving our true freedom if we don’t expunge from our hearts and minds the last traces of hatred and violent anger toward others, including those who oppress us. We must remember that we are fighting against ideologies and processes that legitimize, and lead to, the domination of others, not those who execute it, especially not the foot soldiers of occupation. We must become what we want to be, not what our oppressor wants to turn us into. I don’t advocate sterile processes of “dialogue” as an alternative to the methods we adopt in our everyday resistance— especially the “dialogue” where one side is backed by military power. Dialogue can happen only in a free and fair atmosphere of mutual comprehension. What sort of a dialogue can take place when one side denies the other the right to be free? What sort of a meeting place can there be between justice and injustice? We must, however, not close our ears and eyes to what the other is saying or showing us. Listening is a great gesture of friendship. We must politely refuse to accept what is fundamentally unjust. In this moment of suffering, our fundamental duty is toward our own people, toward those who are hit the most every time our society protests, the poor and the weak. My thoughts go to that one Kashmiri mother in a picture I saw recently who was being violently pushed around by a cop, an ignorant man, who could be her neighbor. And I still can’t get the image of a little boy weeping over the body of his dead brother out of my head. His scream of pain, draining all the blood from his face, cut through the picture and hit me like a shell. No freedom is worth an innocent life. Our occupiers tell us the same, while they continue to feed innocent Kashmiri lives to the fires of occupation. Our occupiers tell us to send our children to schools, where they could learn how Bhagat Singh and Subhash Chander Bose fought for India’s freedom, but they don’t want our children to learn about their own long overdue freedoms, far from enjoy them. They urge, and even force, us to vote in their form of democracy, a democracy stripped down to the barren and inconsequential act of voting, a democracy designed not to empower our voice but to inflate turnouts. My friends, we are through with it. Our imagination is more powerful than their military. They have been proven wrong over and over again. We must keep the spirit of Azadi alive, because that is the only way it can be. That is the only way we can be. MJ, October 31, 2010 Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From aliens at dataone.in Sat Nov 6 11:20:43 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:20:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: <002901cb7d76$8dfb7130$a9f25390$@in> Yes, in the valley, between 74 to 95% (or average 85% according to this survey) favor independent Kashmir. But, rest of J&K (Jammu/Ladakh) merely less than 1% supports azadi. Any argument? So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate first in the proper direction. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:55 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu > 4fA > > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 > > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end unrest > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. > > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey found > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. > > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent in > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should belong > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. > > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. > > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. > > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how they > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant source > of tension between India and Pakistan. > > > > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of > the insurgency in 1989. > > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but a > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 6 12:10:34 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] [mcrc_jamia_alumni] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar In-Reply-To: <170053.59261.qm@web94205.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <748186.49541.qm@web51404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Adil Thanks for your note. I also stay in Batla house. There is a possibility that those are children of the zari workers, but then I have the following concerns: 1. why do the children spend the night within the factories (the same dormitory-like rooms where they work). You can visit any of these places and see for yourself - they even keep their clothes and personal belongings in those rooms. Of course a TV has been provided in some rooms by the owners for their entertainment. 2. If their homes and families were right there, why were 60 of them willing to go with the BBA activists (they had been put into vehicles and then snatched back). 3. even if they are Zari worker's children, can the child-labour be justified? What about their education, playing, growth etc. What is wrong if an outside agency/NGO is concerned about that? 4. I am not defending the Bachpan Bachao Andolan - I hardly know them nor have I interacted with them. But I provided a link to their website (http://www.bba.org.in). And if you simply go by what they claim on the website, they have rescued over 50,000 children from labour/bondage situations. Of course you would be concerned about what do they do with the kids after rescue. Well, besides raid and rescue they also do repatriation, re-integration, rehabilitation and provide legal assistance. The police assists them in all raids (although in this case it didn't work out, and I know exactly why). But I would still like to know more about them (maybe to contact them after divali break). 5. But my bigger concern is: what are we as educated citizens of this locality doing? We (especailly Jamia's academic community with all its specialization in social sciences) have allowed the child labour to happen right before our eyes, and are now raising doubts about the outsiders. 6. Its better I don't talk about the local leaders and the religious fervour that can be raised everytime something happens here. Its always easy to blame others for one's plight but very difficult to look within. thanks Yousuf --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Adilmatin wrote: > From: Adilmatin > Dear yousuf, I appreciate your > concern but my information is that these children are local > residents and their parents are zari workers. I know this > because I stay in the locality next to the batla house area. > This is just a preconceived notion that because some Muslim > leaders have done something like this in the past, > therefore, they are always wrong. Specially When we compare > such local politicians with the 'word' NGO. You must be > aware about the scams and the scandals associated with the > 'word' NGO, but we can not generalise all of them. >             > > Adil Matin > Vice President > Information TV-Indianews Channel > > Sent from my iPad > > On 04-Nov-2010, at 8:23 AM, Yousuf > wrote: > > Dear all > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New > Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO > Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to > rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari > industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these > children and were taking them away, but their operation > failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around > them and snatched all the children back. They spread the > rumour that the activists were “conspiring against > Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. > The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking > any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn > of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) > > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the > presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance > of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is > more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the > entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The > neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central > university whose many staff, teachers and students reside > here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the > study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority > Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, > Gandhian studies and host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the > lamp there seems darkness. > > This is not the first time that the local people used the > “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to improve > their lot. Of course there has been a lot of insecurity due > to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” and so > on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the > police and “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light > of the generalisations made by the media and the police > about the people of this area. But this can also have a > different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local > backlash, the authorities have decided in the recent months > to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal construction > of apartment buildings in the already narrow and cramped > lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become utterly inhuman > to live. This construction activity and the zari factories > are all part of the growing monster that this area has > become. And the religious identity is a good excuse to allow > the monstrosity to grow larger. Of > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s > aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent > CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. > > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing > here hoping that at least some discussion or debate could > ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. But > more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood needs > a street-level debate on how not to use the religious > identity for petty issues, and how real are these > “conspiracies against Muslims”. > > Any ideas? > > Yousuf Saeed > > ---- > > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient > attitude of administration > > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith > the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted > a raid and rescue operation in their effort to eradicate > Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After rigorous > effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child labourers > in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed > a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th > October 2010. After two planning meetings with all > stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue > date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team > gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for > identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha > and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue > operation. Children in this area were involved in the zari > works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years to > 13 years of age. > > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the > teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children and > they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out of > nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who > introduced themselves as some members of a political > organization, along with the owners of the industry came and > interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two > person propagated a communal flavour during conversation > with our team members and motivated the people by saying > that these people are against Muslims. > > As a result of their interruption the local people started > gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials and the > people from the labour department remained standing as mere > spectators and most of them disappeared from the spot. The > activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated indecently > by the owners and the two so called local leaders namely > Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of > obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the > children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. > > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did > not take any action and at last we had to return back empty > handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said in this > context “This happened because of the inefficient attitude > of the administration but our activists will continue this > movement against those who are responsible for creating this > kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued children are > rescued in that area > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate > authority to take proper action against who interrupted the > official work by sustaining the rescue operation and > forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering > cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery > (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an > illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), > Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public > servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), > Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death > (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. > > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php > > Also see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mcrc_jamia_alumni/ > > <*> Your email settings: >     Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mcrc_jamia_alumni/join >     (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: >     mcrc_jamia_alumni-digest at yahoogroups.com > >     mcrc_jamia_alumni-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: >     mcrc_jamia_alumni-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 14:56:39 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 14:56:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: dear Samvit repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and your like minded friends are reacting. yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the history of Radio of those days. i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day light, not night, right so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or what ? The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and how can you reverse that.? let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, with love is On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: > Inder, > can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not > understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this > forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others > but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. > This kind of behavior is very juvenile. > -SR > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> > >> > >> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >> > 4fA >> > >> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >> > >> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >> > unrest >> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >> > >> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >> > found >> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >> > >> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >> > in >> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >> > belong >> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >> > >> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >> > survey, >> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >> > >> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >> > >> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >> > they >> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >> > source >> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >> > >> > >> > >> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption >> > of >> > the insurgency in 1989. >> > >> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >> > a >> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From shumonagoel at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 15:46:13 2010 From: shumonagoel at gmail.com (Shumona Goel) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:46:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gender Justice work - Nashik Message-ID: Dear Friends, Does anyone on this list serve know of an organization in Nashik which works on domestic violence? Thanks for your help, Shumona Goel From asit1917 at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 16:00:41 2010 From: asit1917 at gmail.com (asit das) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 16:00:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indian state should undrstand what kashmiris say thats demoracy wll of the people asit On 11/6/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > (Bipin Trivedi) > 2. Re: [mcrc_jamia_alumni] A failed child-labour rescue and > other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar (Yousuf) > 3. Re: KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > (Inder Salim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:20:43 +0530 > From: Bipin Trivedi > To: 'Inder Salim' > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR > INDEPENDENCE > Message-ID: <002901cb7d76$8dfb7130$a9f25390$@in> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > Yes, in the valley, between 74 to 95% (or average 85% according to this > survey) favor independent Kashmir. But, rest of J&K (Jammu/Ladakh) merely > less than 1% supports azadi. Any argument? > > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating > constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to > divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and > will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that > their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate > first in the proper direction. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:55 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> >> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >> 4fA >> >> (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >> >> SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >> Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end unrest >> in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >> >> Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >> found >> that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >> independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >> >> United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >> in >> 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should belong >> to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >> >> "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >> options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, >> which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >> >> Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >> opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >> facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >> >> "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >> commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >> The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >> they >> saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >> source >> of tension between India and Pakistan. >> >> >> >> But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >> Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >> The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >> solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >> More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of >> the insurgency in 1989. >> >> India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but a >> recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:40:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: Yousuf > To: mcrc_jamia_alumni at yahoogroups.com > Cc: sarai list , jmi list > , Okhla Times > , info at bba.org.in > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [mcrc_jamia_alumni] A failed child-labour > rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar > Message-ID: <748186.49541.qm at web51404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Dear Adil > Thanks for your note. I also stay in Batla house. There is a possibility > that those are children of the zari workers, but then I have the following > concerns: > > 1. why do the children spend the night within the factories (the same > dormitory-like rooms where they work). You can visit any of these places and > see for yourself - they even keep their clothes and personal belongings in > those rooms. Of course a TV has been provided in some rooms by the owners > for their entertainment. > > 2. If their homes and families were right there, why were 60 of them willing > to go with the BBA activists (they had been put into vehicles and then > snatched back). > > 3. even if they are Zari worker's children, can the child-labour be > justified? What about their education, playing, growth etc. What is wrong if > an outside agency/NGO is concerned about that? > > 4. I am not defending the Bachpan Bachao Andolan - I hardly know them nor > have I interacted with them. But I provided a link to their website > (http://www.bba.org.in). And if you simply go by what they claim on the > website, they have rescued over 50,000 children from labour/bondage > situations. Of course you would be concerned about what do they do with the > kids after rescue. Well, besides raid and rescue they also do repatriation, > re-integration, rehabilitation and provide legal assistance. The police > assists them in all raids (although in this case it didn't work out, and I > know exactly why). But I would still like to know more about them (maybe to > contact them after divali break). > > 5. But my bigger concern is: what are we as educated citizens of this > locality doing? We (especailly Jamia's academic community with all its > specialization in social sciences) have allowed the child labour to happen > right before our eyes, and are now raising doubts about the outsiders. > > 6. Its better I don't talk about the local leaders and the religious fervour > that can be raised everytime something happens here. Its always easy to > blame others for one's plight but very difficult to look within. > > thanks > > Yousuf > > > --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Adilmatin wrote: > >> From: Adilmatin > >> Dear yousuf, I appreciate your >> concern but my information is that these children are local >> residents and their parents are zari workers. I know this >> because I stay in the locality next to the batla house area. >> This is just a preconceived notion that because some Muslim >> leaders have done something like this in the past, >> therefore, they are always wrong. Specially When we compare >> such local politicians with the 'word' NGO. You must be >> aware about the scams and the scandals associated with the >> 'word' NGO, but we can not generalise all of them. >> >> >> Adil Matin >> Vice President >> Information TV-Indianews Channel >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 04-Nov-2010, at 8:23 AM, Yousuf >> wrote: >> >> Dear all >> Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New >> Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO >> Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to >> rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari >> industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these >> children and were taking them away, but their operation >> failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around >> them and snatched all the children back. They spread the >> rumour that the activists were “conspiring against >> Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. >> The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking >> any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn >> of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) >> >> This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the >> presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance >> of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is >> more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the >> entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The >> neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central >> university whose many staff, teachers and students reside >> here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the >> study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority >> Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, >> Gandhian studies and host of others (see >> http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the >> lamp there seems darkness. >> >> This is not the first time that the local people used the >> “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to improve >> their lot. Of course there has been a lot of insecurity due >> to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” and so >> on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the >> police and “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light >> of the generalisations made by the media and the police >> about the people of this area. But this can also have a >> different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local >> backlash, the authorities have decided in the recent months >> to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal construction >> of apartment buildings in the already narrow and cramped >> lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become utterly inhuman >> to live. This construction activity and the zari factories >> are all part of the growing monster that this area has >> become. And the religious identity is a good excuse to allow >> the monstrosity to grow larger. Of >> course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s >> aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent >> CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. >> >> I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing >> here hoping that at least some discussion or debate could >> ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. But >> more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood needs >> a street-level debate on how not to use the religious >> identity for petty issues, and how real are these >> “conspiracies against Muslims”. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Yousuf Saeed >> >> ---- >> >> Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient >> attitude of administration >> >> On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith >> the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted >> a raid and rescue operation in their effort to eradicate >> Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After rigorous >> effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child labourers >> in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed >> a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th >> October 2010. After two planning meetings with all >> stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue >> date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team >> gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for >> identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha >> and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue >> operation. Children in this area were involved in the zari >> works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years to >> 13 years of age. >> >> The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the >> teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children and >> they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out of >> nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who >> introduced themselves as some members of a political >> organization, along with the owners of the industry came and >> interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two >> person propagated a communal flavour during conversation >> with our team members and motivated the people by saying >> that these people are against Muslims. >> >> As a result of their interruption the local people started >> gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials and the >> people from the labour department remained standing as mere >> spectators and most of them disappeared from the spot. The >> activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated indecently >> by the owners and the two so called local leaders namely >> Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of >> obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the >> children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. >> >> In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did >> not take any action and at last we had to return back empty >> handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said in this >> context “This happened because of the inefficient attitude >> of the administration but our activists will continue this >> movement against those who are responsible for creating this >> kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued children are >> rescued in that area >> Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate >> authority to take proper action against who interrupted the >> official work by sustaining the rescue operation and >> forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering >> cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery >> (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an >> illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), >> Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public >> servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), >> Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death >> (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. >> >> http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php >> >> Also see: >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mcrc_jamia_alumni/ >> >> <*> Your email settings: >>     Individual Email | Traditional >> >> <*> To change settings online go to: >>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mcrc_jamia_alumni/join >>     (Yahoo! ID required) >> >> <*> To change settings via email: >>     mcrc_jamia_alumni-digest at yahoogroups.com >> >>     mcrc_jamia_alumni-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com >> >> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email >> to: >>     mcrc_jamia_alumni-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >> >> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 14:56:39 +0530 > From: Inder Salim > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR > INDEPENDENCE > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > dear Samvit > > repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, > just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and > your like minded friends are reacting. > > yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some > propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has > used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the > history of Radio of those days. > > i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 > percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. > you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day > light, not night, right > > so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or > what ? > > The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should > see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and > how can you reverse that.? > > let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, > with love > is > > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >> Inder, >> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this >> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others >> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send >> spam. >> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >> -SR >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>> > 4fA >>> > >>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>> > >>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>> > unrest >>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>> > >>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >>> > found >>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>> > >>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the >>> > sub-continent >>> > in >>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>> > belong >>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>> > >>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >>> > survey, >>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>> > >>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>> > >>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >>> > they >>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >>> > source >>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption >>> > of >>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>> > >>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, >>> > but >>> > a >>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 30 > ******************************************* > From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 6 18:59:50 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 06:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits seek Obama help to return to homeland Message-ID: <432545.95827.qm@web120218.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> personally i have strong disagreements with some of the platforms we kps use to highlight the concerns of the community   i like this statement issued by american-kps in the usa    it does not demonise an entire religious community in kashmir but refers simply to "the armed insurgency two decades back"   personally i would have preferred a more specific reference to the 'hounding out of and forcing kps to flee kashmir because of the targetted killings and the creation of an environment of fear by the extremism and terrorism of religious fundamentalists backed by armed insurgents from pakistan'   the statement does well to highlight what is of  critical importance to kps "Kashmiri Pandit culture is at the verge of extinction and can prosper only in its native land of Kashmir Valley"   .......... aalok aima     http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/blnus/14061201.htm     Kashmiri Pandits seek Obama help to return to homeland   Want US Prez to discuss issue of protection of fundamental rights   WASHINGTON: Kashmiri Pandits in the US have appealed to the President, Mr Barack Obama, to take up their cause and the need to protect their fundamental rights in the Valley during his meetings with top Indian leadership.   Preservation and protection of fundamental rights of economic, social, religious and political freedom in their homeland Kashmir alone will guarantee the preservation of Kashmiri Pandit culture and community, the Indo-American Kashmiri Forum said in a st atement here.   It also welcomed and supported Senator Sherrod Brown’s contention that Kashmiri Pandit culture is at the verge of extinction and can prosper only in its native land of Kashmir Valley.   Mr Brown had recently raised the issue of Kashmiri Pandits with Mr Obama, who is arriving in India today on a three-day visit.   The forum agrees with Senator Brown’s position that “it is imperative that the minority community of Kashmiri Pandits be included in any regional dialogue concerning the future of Jammu and Kashmir,” it said.   “IAKF wishes to remind the Government of India and President Obama that the plight of Kashmiri Pandits, who were forced to flee from Kashmir during the armed insurgency two decades back, remains unchanged with no economic, religious, social and political rights in their native land of Kashmir,” the statement said.   “It is an unfortunate fact that there has been no concerted effort by the Central Government in New Delhi to develop a specific policy regarding the return of Kashmiri Pandits or engage them in any serious dialogue to ensure their timely return to the ho meland,” it said. — PTI From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 6 19:35:31 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 07:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Robert Blackwill on Obama's Trip to India Message-ID: <275991.57760.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>   http://www.cfr.org/publication/23312/robert_blackwill_on_obamas_trip_to_india.html     From samvitr at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 20:07:10 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 20:07:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gender Justice work - Nashik In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Shumona, I am not aware of any org that work on domestic violence in Nashik. However I suggest you speak to the folks at Prithvi.org.in. They are doing some excellent work and would be able to suggest some names/email ids etc. Hope this helps. Thanks, -Samvit On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Shumona Goel wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone on this list serve know of an organization in Nashik which works > on domestic violence? > > Thanks for your help, > > Shumona Goel > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 09:57:10 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 00:27:10 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar References: <111203.36724.qm@web51405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B2F275ED6F94057B3BF48AB612E85F4@tara> It's a good question Yousuf but sadly you won't find a reasonable answer on this list. The answer requires little rational thinking, but of late we are reacting emotionally most of the time ont his list. I would like to say though that Indian intelligentsia is largely complicit in this on going human rights violation. There is a hidden property in the definition of human rights, that unless it is the state involved it can't be called violation. If your name suggested that you were Hindu, by now a lot of people would have pelted their metaphorical stones at you. Yours seems to be a minority voice, we don't give a damn for the minorities with in minority. Those who can bark the loudest get heard. I hope Jamia Solidarity kind of organization will be formed at JMI to help these children. I wonder if Islam says anything against child labor. I can say for sure though that it does not say anything in favor of it. Keep asking the tough question. May be you will some day get a satisfactory answer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" To: "sarai list" Cc: "jmi list" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:23 AM Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar > Dear all > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. On 1st > November a team of activists from the NGO Bachpan Bachao Andolan along > with police officials tried to rescue about 60 children working in the > sweatshops of zari industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these > children and were taking them away, but their operation failed because a > mob led by local leaders gathered around them and snatched all the > children back. They spread the rumour that the activists were “conspiring > against Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. The police > obviously watched the whole drama without taking any action. They were > afraid that the event may take a turn of communal violence. > (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) > > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the presence of rampant > child labour in this area, the defiance of the local goons, and the > silence of the police. But it is more unfortunate because of the inaction > and silence of the entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The > neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central university whose > many staff, teachers and students reside here. Jamia has well known > departments and centres for the study and training in Social Work, Peace > Studies, Minority Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, > Gandhian studies and host of others (see > http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the lamp there seems > darkness. > > This is not the first time that the local people used the “Muslim” card to > thwart any outside attempt to improve their lot. Of course there has been > a lot of insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” > and so on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the police and > “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light of the generalisations made > by the media and the police about the people of this area. But this can > also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local > backlash, the authorities have decided in the recent months to turn a > blind eye to the mass-scale illegal construction of apartment buildings in > the already narrow and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become > utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the zari factories > are all part of the growing monster that this area has become. And the > religious identity is a good excuse to allow the monstrosity to grow > larger. Of > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s aspirations of becoming a > world class city during the recent CW games didn’t touch this area in any > way. > > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing here hoping that > at least some discussion or debate could ensue in some place to make sense > of what is going on. But more than a closed-door discussion, this > neighbourhood needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious > identity for petty issues, and how real are these “conspiracies against > Muslims”. > > Any ideas? > > Yousuf Saeed > > ---- > > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient attitude of > administration > > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith the labour > department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted a raid and rescue > operation in their effort to eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New > Delhi. After rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child > labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed a > complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th October 2010. > After two planning meetings with all stakeholders of District Task Force, > the raid and rescue date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the > team gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for identified > spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha and moved towards Batla > House and hence started the rescue operation. Children in this area were > involved in the zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 > years to 13 years of age. > > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the teams were > successful in rescuing around sixty children and they were being taken to > the vehicle, but suddenly out of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and > Samiulla, who introduced themselves as some members of a political > organization, along with the owners of the industry came and interrupted > the process of rescue operation. These two person propagated a communal > flavour during conversation with our team members and motivated the people > by saying that these people are against Muslims. > > As a result of their interruption the local people started gathering and > asking questions. The Police Officials and the people from the labour > department remained standing as mere spectators and most of them > disappeared from the spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were > treated indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders > namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of obstructing > the whole process and started to threaten the children and forcefully > snatched the rescued children away. > > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did not take any > action and at last we had to return back empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, > Chairperson of BBA, said in this context “This happened because of the > inefficient attitude of the administration but our activists will continue > this movement against those who are responsible for creating this kind of > inhuman situation unless all rescued children are rescued in that area > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate authority to take > proper action against who interrupted the official work by sustaining the > rescue operation and forcibly taking away the freed children and thus > registering cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery > (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an illegal/immoral > purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), Criminal Assault, obstructing and > assaulting a public servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), > Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death (Sec. 506), > Criminal Conspiracy etc. > > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php > > Also see: > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 6 21:46:23 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 09:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar In-Reply-To: <3B2F275ED6F94057B3BF48AB612E85F4@tara> Message-ID: <204773.55412.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Tara Prakash Thanks for your message. Just to respond to the last bit of your mail - Islam doesn't say anything specific about child-labour, probably because it didn't exist then. But Prophet Muhammad was in favour of being kind, gentle and loving with children. He managed to stop the practice of female infanticide which was prevalent in Mecca then. Islam is also against unfair trade and exploitation of the labourers and workers. The Prophet said, "Pay the worker his wages before his sweat gets dried." Putting this together, one can definitely say that exploitation of children for work is unIslamic. But how dare an outsider (NGO) say this to the community. thanks Yousuf --- On Fri, 11/5/10, TaraPrakash wrote: > From: TaraPrakash > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar > To: "Yousuf" , "sarai list" > Cc: "jmi list" > Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 9:57 AM > It's a good question Yousuf but sadly > you won't find a reasonable answer on this list. The answer > requires little rational thinking, but of late we are > reacting emotionally most of the time ont his list. > I would like to say though that Indian intelligentsia is > largely complicit in this on going human rights violation. > There is a hidden property in the definition of human > rights, that unless it is the state involved it can't be > called violation. > If your name suggested that you were Hindu, by now a lot of > people would have pelted their metaphorical stones at you. > Yours seems to be a minority voice, we don't give a damn for > the minorities with in minority. Those who can bark the > loudest get heard. I hope Jamia Solidarity kind of > organization will be formed at JMI to help these children. > I wonder if Islam says anything against child labor. I can > say for sure though that it does not say anything in favor > of it. > > Keep asking the tough question. May be you will some day > get a satisfactory answer. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" > To: "sarai list" > Cc: "jmi list" > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:23 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and > other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar > > > > Dear all > > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New > Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO > Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to > rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari > industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these > children and were taking them away, but their operation > failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around > them and snatched all the children back. They spread the > rumour that the activists were “conspiring against > Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. > The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking > any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn > of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) > > > > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the > presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance > of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is > more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the > entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The > neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central > university whose many staff, teachers and students reside > here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the > study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority > Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, > Gandhian studies and host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the > lamp there seems darkness. > > > > This is not the first time that the local people used > the “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to > improve their lot. Of course there has been a lot of > insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist > encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and > anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be > understood in the light of the generalisations made by the > media and the police about the people of this area. But this > can also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the > fear of local backlash, the authorities have decided in the > recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal > construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow > and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become > utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the > zari factories are all part of the growing monster that this > area has become. And the religious identity is a good excuse > to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of > > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s > aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent > CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. > > > > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am > writing here hoping that at least some discussion or debate > could ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. > But more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood > needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious > identity for petty issues, and how real are these > “conspiracies against Muslims”. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > ---- > > > > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to > inefficient attitude of administration > > > > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan > alongwith the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police > conducted a raid and rescue operation in their effort to > eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After > rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child > labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context > BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South > on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all > stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue > date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team > gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for > identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha > and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue > operation.  Children in this area were involved in the > zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years > to 13 years of age. > > > > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and > the teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children > and they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out > of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who > introduced themselves as some members of a political > organization, along with the owners of the industry came and > interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two > person propagated a communal flavour during conversation > with our team members and motivated the people by saying > that these people are against Muslims. > > > > As a result of their interruption the local people > started gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials > and the people from the labour department remained standing > as mere spectators and most of them disappeared from the > spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated > indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders > namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of > obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the > children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. > > > > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department > did not take any action and at last we had to return back > empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said > in this context “This happened because of the inefficient > attitude of the administration but our activists will > continue this movement against those who are responsible for > creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued > children are rescued in that area > > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate > authority to take proper action against who interrupted the > official work by sustaining the rescue operation and > forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering > cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery > (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an > illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), > Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public > servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), > Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death > (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. > > > > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php > > > > Also see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From shivam at kafila.org Sat Nov 6 22:00:03 2010 From: shivam at kafila.org (shivam at kafila.org) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:00:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar In-Reply-To: <111203.36724.qm@web51405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <111203.36724.qm@web51405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Yousuf, Many thanks for bringing this to wider attention. The use of the religion card in such a manner is very unfortunate and should be condemned by all. In effect this is resulting in the use of religion to perpetuate the exploitation of children. The local community 'leaders' of Jamia Nagar, the politicians, religious functionaries and old residents should all rethink what they have just done. With an act like this they are delegtimising their valid concerns with the security apparatus post-Batla encounter. For the next time they cry blue murder, who will take them seriously? For so many who have stood with the Jamia Nagar residents, particularly the university teachers, the Jamia community owes an answer. There's one point you make that I disagree with. You say that the religion card comes in the way of the authorities checking illegal construction. My understanding is that the residents have a very good understanding with the police as far as that is concerned. This 'under-standing' is regarding the standing rates under the table, the chai paani you know. It is the same as everywhere. In fact, having learnt from some old residents about this relationship of the Under Standing that the Jamia community has with the police and authorities, I was quite fascinated that this rather secular relationship continued despite and after the fake encounter/ police murder. Knowing our police, it is very likely that the Bachpan Bachao Andolan raid and consequent rescue of the children from the rescuers by the mob would have been followed by some Under Standing between the children's employers and the police. best shivam On 4 November 2010 20:53, Yousuf wrote: > Dear all > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. On 1st > November a team of activists from the NGO Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with > police officials tried to rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops > of zari industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these children and > were taking them away, but their operation failed because a mob led by local > leaders gathered around them and snatched all the children back. They spread > the rumour that the activists were “conspiring against Muslims” and > forcefully taking away “their” children. The police obviously watched the > whole drama without taking any action. They were afraid that the event may > take a turn of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) > > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the presence of rampant > child labour in this area, the defiance of the local goons, and the silence > of the police. But it is more unfortunate because of the inaction and > silence of the entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The > neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central university whose > many staff, teachers and students reside here. Jamia has well known > departments and centres for the study and training in Social Work, Peace > Studies, Minority Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, > Gandhian studies and host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). > But right under the lamp there seems darkness. > > This is not the first time that the local people used the “Muslim” card to > thwart any outside attempt to improve their lot. Of course there has been a > lot of insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” and > so on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the police and > “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light of the generalisations made by > the media and the police about the people of this area. But this can also > have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local backlash, > the authorities have decided in the recent months to turn a blind eye to the > mass-scale illegal construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow > and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become utterly inhuman to > live. This construction activity and the zari factories are all part of the > growing monster that this area has become. And the religious identity is a > good excuse to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s aspirations of becoming a > world class city during the recent CW games didn’t touch this area in any > way. > > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing here hoping that > at least some discussion or debate could ensue in some place to make sense > of what is going on. But more than a closed-door discussion, this > neighbourhood needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious > identity for petty issues, and how real are these “conspiracies against > Muslims”. > > Any ideas? > > Yousuf Saeed > > ---- > > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient attitude of > administration > > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith the labour > department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted a raid and rescue > operation in their effort to eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New > Delhi. After rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child > labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed a > complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th October 2010. After > two planning meetings with all stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid > and rescue date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team > gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for identified spot > headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha and moved towards Batla House > and hence started the rescue operation. Children in this area were involved > in the zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years to 13 > years of age. > > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the teams were > successful in rescuing around sixty children and they were being taken to > the vehicle, but suddenly out of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and > Samiulla, who introduced themselves as some members of a political > organization, along with the owners of the industry came and interrupted the > process of rescue operation. These two person propagated a communal flavour > during conversation with our team members and motivated the people by saying > that these people are against Muslims. > > As a result of their interruption the local people started gathering and > asking questions. The Police Officials and the people from the labour > department remained standing as mere spectators and most of them disappeared > from the spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated > indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders namely > Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of obstructing the whole > process and started to threaten the children and forcefully snatched the > rescued children away. > > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did not take any > action and at last we had to return back empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, > Chairperson of BBA, said in this context “This happened because of the > inefficient attitude of the administration but our activists will continue > this movement against those who are responsible for creating this kind of > inhuman situation unless all rescued children are rescued in that area > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate authority to take > proper action against who interrupted the official work by sustaining the > rescue operation and forcibly taking away the freed children and thus > registering cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery (Sec.367 > IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an illegal/immoral purpose of > child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a > public servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), Criminal > Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death (Sec. 506), Criminal > Conspiracy etc. > > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php > > Also see: > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- shivam at kafila.org | Delhi From aliens at dataone.in Sat Nov 6 22:01:14 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 22:01:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar In-Reply-To: <204773.55412.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <3B2F275ED6F94057B3BF48AB612E85F4@tara> <204773.55412.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000401cb7dd0$081cb600$18562200$@in> It is nice to hear that Islam doesn't say anything about child labor and gentle/kind/loving towards children. But, such teachings are not restricted to Islam. Such teachings are there in all the religion. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Yousuf Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:46 PM To: sarai list; TaraPrakash Cc: jmi list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar Dear Tara Prakash Thanks for your message. Just to respond to the last bit of your mail - Islam doesn't say anything specific about child-labour, probably because it didn't exist then. But Prophet Muhammad was in favour of being kind, gentle and loving with children. He managed to stop the practice of female infanticide which was prevalent in Mecca then. Islam is also against unfair trade and exploitation of the labourers and workers. The Prophet said, "Pay the worker his wages before his sweat gets dried." Putting this together, one can definitely say that exploitation of children for work is unIslamic. But how dare an outsider (NGO) say this to the community. thanks Yousuf --- On Fri, 11/5/10, TaraPrakash wrote: > From: TaraPrakash > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar > To: "Yousuf" , "sarai list" > Cc: "jmi list" > Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 9:57 AM > It's a good question Yousuf but sadly > you won't find a reasonable answer on this list. The answer > requires little rational thinking, but of late we are > reacting emotionally most of the time ont his list. > I would like to say though that Indian intelligentsia is > largely complicit in this on going human rights violation. > There is a hidden property in the definition of human > rights, that unless it is the state involved it can't be > called violation. > If your name suggested that you were Hindu, by now a lot of > people would have pelted their metaphorical stones at you. > Yours seems to be a minority voice, we don't give a damn for > the minorities with in minority. Those who can bark the > loudest get heard. I hope Jamia Solidarity kind of > organization will be formed at JMI to help these children. > I wonder if Islam says anything against child labor. I can > say for sure though that it does not say anything in favor > of it. > > Keep asking the tough question. May be you will some day > get a satisfactory answer. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" > To: "sarai list" > Cc: "jmi list" > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:23 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and > other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar > > > > Dear all > > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New > Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO > Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to > rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari > industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these > children and were taking them away, but their operation > failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around > them and snatched all the children back. They spread the > rumour that the activists were “conspiring against > Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. > The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking > any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn > of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) > > > > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the > presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance > of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is > more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the > entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The > neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central > university whose many staff, teachers and students reside > here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the > study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority > Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, > Gandhian studies and host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the > lamp there seems darkness. > > > > This is not the first time that the local people used > the “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to > improve their lot. Of course there has been a lot of > insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist > encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and > anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be > understood in the light of the generalisations made by the > media and the police about the people of this area. But this > can also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the > fear of local backlash, the authorities have decided in the > recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal > construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow > and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become > utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the > zari factories are all part of the growing monster that this > area has become. And the religious identity is a good excuse > to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of > > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s > aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent > CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. > > > > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am > writing here hoping that at least some discussion or debate > could ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. > But more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood > needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious > identity for petty issues, and how real are these > “conspiracies against Muslims”. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > ---- > > > > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to > inefficient attitude of administration > > > > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan > alongwith the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police > conducted a raid and rescue operation in their effort to > eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After > rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child > labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context > BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South > on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all > stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue > date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team > gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for > identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha > and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue > operation. Children in this area were involved in the > zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years > to 13 years of age. > > > > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and > the teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children > and they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out > of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who > introduced themselves as some members of a political > organization, along with the owners of the industry came and > interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two > person propagated a communal flavour during conversation > with our team members and motivated the people by saying > that these people are against Muslims. > > > > As a result of their interruption the local people > started gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials > and the people from the labour department remained standing > as mere spectators and most of them disappeared from the > spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated > indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders > namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of > obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the > children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. > > > > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department > did not take any action and at last we had to return back > empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said > in this context “This happened because of the inefficient > attitude of the administration but our activists will > continue this movement against those who are responsible for > creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued > children are rescued in that area > > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate > authority to take proper action against who interrupted the > official work by sustaining the rescue operation and > forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering > cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery > (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an > illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), > Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public > servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), > Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death > (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. > > > > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php > > > > Also see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sat Nov 6 22:16:57 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 22:16:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day dream..............keep it up -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE dear Samvit repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and your like minded friends are reacting. yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the history of Radio of those days. i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day light, not night, right so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or what ? The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and how can you reverse that.? let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, with love is On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: > Inder, > can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not > understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this > forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others > but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. > This kind of behavior is very juvenile. > -SR > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> > >> > >> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >> > 4fA >> > >> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >> > >> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >> > unrest >> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >> > >> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >> > found >> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >> > >> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >> > in >> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >> > belong >> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >> > >> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >> > survey, >> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >> > >> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >> > >> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >> > they >> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >> > source >> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >> > >> > >> > >> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption >> > of >> > the insurgency in 1989. >> > >> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >> > a >> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 22:23:54 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:23:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin it is 100 per cent i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does not work what can one do? love in any case is On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day dream..............keep it up > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > dear Samvit > > repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, > just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and > your like minded friends are reacting. > > yes,  it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some > propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has > used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the > history of Radio of those days. > > i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 > percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. > you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day > light, not night, right > > so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or what ? > > The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should > see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and > how can you reverse that.? > > let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, > with love > is > > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >> Inder, >> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this >> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others >> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. >> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >> -SR >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>> > 4fA >>> > >>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>> > >>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>> > unrest >>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>> > >>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >>> > found >>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>> > >>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >>> > in >>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>> > belong >>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>> > >>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >>> > survey, >>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>> > >>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>> > >>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >>> > they >>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >>> > source >>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption >>> > of >>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>> > >>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >>> > a >>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aliens at dataone.in Sat Nov 6 22:36:07 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 22:36:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> Message-ID: <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> Dear Inder, Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me sending again bellow. So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate first in the proper direction. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE Dear Bipin it is 100 per cent i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does not work what can one do? love in any case is On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day dream..............keep it up > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > dear Samvit > > repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, > just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and > your like minded friends are reacting. > > yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some > propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has > used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the > history of Radio of those days. > > i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 > percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. > you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day > light, not night, right > > so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or what ? > > The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should > see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and > how can you reverse that.? > > let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, > with love > is > > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >> Inder, >> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this >> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others >> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. >> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >> -SR >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>> > 4fA >>> > >>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>> > >>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>> > unrest >>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>> > >>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >>> > found >>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>> > >>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >>> > in >>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>> > belong >>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>> > >>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >>> > survey, >>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>> > >>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>> > >>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >>> > they >>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >>> > source >>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption >>> > of >>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>> > >>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >>> > a >>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sat Nov 6 22:39:19 2010 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 10:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A perspective from Bangladesh Message-ID: <371932.31977.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This is the perspective of recent 'sedition debates' and 'liberal democracy' in India from a Bangladeshi (non-Indian). The language is Bangla. I apologize to those who cannot read Bangla. Please, follow the link below: http://opinion.bdnews24.com/bangla/2010/11/06/%E2%80%98%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%AC%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B7-%E0%A6%9B%E0%A7%9C%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A8%E0%A7%8B%E0%A7%9F-%E0%A6%89%E0%A6%B8%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BF/ Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 22:41:01 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:41:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin you dont answer me, how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India without the presence of Army ? please answer but with love is On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me sending again bellow. > > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate first in the proper direction. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > Dear Bipin > > it is 100 per cent > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does not work > > what can one do? > > love in any case > > is > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day dream..............keep it up >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM >> To: reader-list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE >> >> dear Samvit >> >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and >> your like minded friends are reacting. >> >> yes,  it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the >> history of Radio of those days. >> >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day >> light, not night, right >> >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or what ? >> >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and >> how can you reverse that.? >> >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >>> Inder, >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >>> -SR >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>>> > 4fA >>>> > >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>>> > >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>>> > unrest >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>>> > >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >>>> > found >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>>> > >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >>>> > in >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>>> > belong >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>>> > >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >>>> > survey, >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>>> > >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>>> > >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >>>> > they >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >>>> > source >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption >>>> > of >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>>> > >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >>>> > a >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>>> > >>>> > _________________________________________ >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sat Nov 6 22:41:05 2010 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 17:11:05 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] 'azadi' mongering..??..Reading 'A Letter from New York' for Kashmir byMohamad Junaid... Message-ID: Dear Shuddha, Your apprehensions about ‘Islamist Fascism’ taking over in Kashmir have come about a bit too late. The minority Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were subjected to a systematic ethnic cleansing only because they professed a different faith & were seen symbolising Indian presence in the valley way back, two decades ago. So called ‘struggle’ for ‘Azadi’ is nothing but a cover up for running a jihadist syndicate that thrives on pan Islamic fervour nurtured over the years.Dr Shabir Choudhry makes some touching observations (that could be frustating ,demorolising..etc...etc...to 'azadi' sympathisers) on the plight of ‘azadi seekers’ who were motivated to cross over to the ‘land of the pure’ to receive ‘material’ & 'moral' support to wage jihad against India..... Rgds all LA Plight of Kashmiri militants in ‘Azad Kashmir’ 31 Oct, 2010 Author: Dr Shabir Choudhry Dr Shabir Choudhry Story of Kashmiri struggle is a long and tragic story of suffering of human beings on both sides of the forcibly divided State of Jammu and Kashmir. During our study tour of Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan, I met a ‘leader’ of Kashmiri militants who still live in Azad Kashmir. Before giving details of their plight it is imperative to give short summary to the on going armed struggle. They were young, energetic and full of life; but they were frustrated and not satisfied with what life had to offer them. They wanted change; and they were led to believe that the change could only come from a barrel of gun, which did not grow on Kashmiri trees. The gun and training needed to bring about the desired change could only be gained from Azad Kashmir and Pakistan, so they crossed the Line of Control to get guns, training and ammunition that they could fight the Indian forces stationed in Kashmir. Between 1989 and 1991 tens of thousands of Kashmiri youths crossed over the Line of Control and went to a land of their dreams – Pakistan, which many of them thought was a place where there was justice, peace and tranquillity. Pakistan, for many of them, was just like a second Makkah, a country established in name of Islam and where, according to them, all was well. Many of them thought their Kashmiri brothers living under control of Pakistan were living in heaven; and enjoyed life much better than them. Their dreams were shattered when they crossed over. Many of them lost their lives while walking to land of their dreams. Those who made it across the LOC reached there exhausted and in some cases needed urgent medical help. On arrival they were not greeted with flowers. They all had to go through rigorous security checks, interrogation and, at times, humiliation. Many soon got frustrated and went back empty handed. On way back, they either got killed or adapted to new life style in presence of gun culture, oppression, large army, fear and intimidation. Their position was similar to that woman who insisted for a divorce, despite husband’s pleas of forgiveness and promises of rectifying the past mistakes. After getting a divorce she got married to a man of her choice, but soon realised that he was not caring and compassionate enough. After a big clash with her new husband, while sobbing she said: oh my former husband, how good you were? Tens of thousands of other militants decided to fight their corner and adapt to new life style in Azad Kashmir and Pakistan, as they thought they could not go back because of fear of death and repercussions. Most of these militants were kept in camps; some went to their relatives or friends. Some others got training and were sent back to fight, and either they embraced martyrdom or, in some cases, they abandoned militancy. Most of the Muslim Kashmiris living under the Indian rule were, no doubt, staunch supporters of Pakistan, it was Pakistani policies and attitude of Pakistani agencies which transformed them to Kashmiri nationalists. They had seen the Indian rule and obviously they rejected that; and after experiencing the Pakistani policy and their rule in Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan and their attitude to Kashmiris and concept of azadi (independence) they became ardent supporters of an independent Kashmir. Only those Kashmiri militants who practically became collaborators of Pakistan and helped Pakistan to promote a Pakistani agenda on Kashmir enjoyed their stay in Azad Kashmir and Pakistan. These people were lavishly rewarded and promoted as true Kashmiri leaders and representatives of people of Jammu and Kashmir. Families of these chosen few enjoyed life, they travelled to all major cities of the world to promote ‘Kashmiri struggle’ and their children studied in universities in Europe; yet they encouraged others to pay sacrifices for the cause of struggle. Of course this is not the full story, as different people faced different situations and their experiences also differ from one another; and it is not practically possible to narrate all these stories. Fact, however is, that the raw material needed to keep the Kashmir pot boiling soon started to run out, as many Kashmiris realised that their sentiments were used in name of azadi to advance a Pakistani agenda, but they didn’t know what to do. They had no options, as life back home was not rosy, as there was oppression, killings and imprisonment. They were between a rock and hard place. Those who controlled and planned this ‘azadi struggle’ for Kashmiris got alarmed because of short of supply of Kashmiri raw material required to continue their policy of ‘keep India engaged’ and ‘keep India bleeding’. Nationalism or azadi was not the kind of product which they could sell to recruit warriors from the international market, so this was presented as a ‘Jihad’ in such a way that Muslims from various nationalities were attracted to come to Kashmir to wage ‘jihad’ against India either to embrace martyrdom or to make Kashmir part of ‘Islamic Umma’. Thinking Kashmiris soon realised that it was not their struggle; and they were deceived in holy name of ‘jihad’. Their struggle for their identity and independence was made part of ‘Islamic fundamentalism’ to deprive the struggle of international support and support of other Kashmiri minorities; and to get the State of Jammu and Kashmiri divided on religious lines. Now coming back to the plight of those Kashmiris who remained back in Azad Kashmir, and who went to there to get training and weapons. A man called Mohammed Isahaq Malik phoned me and requested for a meeting. I had four meetings planned for that afternoon, but his desperation and requests for meeting forced me to find some time for him. We met in Roopial Hotel in Mirpur. He was from Rajouri, a part of Jammu province on the Indian side of the LOC. Like many others, he also crossed over with his friends in name of azadi and on call of the JKLF to get training and weapons that he could go back and fight India. Mohammed Isahaq Malik who was now President of Mahjareen Council (Council of Migrants) said: they were let down by Pakistan and the JKLF. We were deceived in name of azadi and struggle. He said: now we know Pakistan government had its own agenda on Kashmir, but what hurt us more, is the attitude of the JKLF leaders and the government of Azad Kashmir. We fail to understand why they have betrayed us and why they have betrayed the ideology and the movement. When he was complaining about the attitude of Amanulla Khan and other JKLF leaders, I asked him if he had met Amanullah Khan and explained the plight of these suffering militants who were away from their homes and their love ones. He said he did, and after listening to their serious humanitarian problems Amanullah Khan said: it is part of the struggle. You have to be patient and accept things as they are. He further said: if I was in a position to help then I would have helped my own people in Gilgit Baltistan. Mr Malik said: we can understand these things - suffering and sacrifices in name of struggle. We can be patient because it was our decision to come here and consequently suffer, but how could we explain our young children who have their own needs and dreams. Everything looks rosy and good when you have plenty of food in your stomach, expensive clothes on your body and decent shelter over your head; but slogans of azadi, ideology and struggle look totally irrelevant and unattractive when your children are crying for food and you have no money to pay for their medicine or no money to educate them. He told me that thousands of militants of 1990s abandoned militancy and they wish to go back home to be with their parents and other friends and relatives, but they were dumped in these camps which are living hazards for us and our children. We have no means to go back. He said there were around 26,000 militants or families (as these militants got married and started a new life) from Jammu province alone. He said: these people were in a desperate need of help and support. All of these people want to go back and want to be with their families. We made a mistake of coming here in 1990, but for how long we have to suffer for that mistake? He gave me details of the camps and how many families live in each camp. These camps are spread over in many parts of Azad Kashmir, for example, there is a camp in Poonch with 500 familes; Ambor Camp with 800 families, Kotli camp 303 families, Manak Peer Camp more than 800 families, Bagh Camp 50 families and 200 families in another camp. Each person is paid 1500 per month and at times no money is paid for 4/5 months. How can one survive on this money with soaring prices, he asked me? He said: they did not face so many problems in Rajouri. We had some respect there, but here we are humiliated and looked down with hatred and abhorrence. We have a Muslim majority in that area and they were supporters of National Conference of Omar Abdullah. He hoped that Omar abdullah will formulate a policy to get us back that we can return to our homes and start a new life. It was really painful listening to plight of these Kashmiris who went across in name of azadi and faced enormous problems; and now wanted to return to their families. I was in no position to help these people, but I promised Mohammed Isahaq Malik to write an article about them and voice their concerns hoping that someone might be in a position to help them.Writer is Head Diplomatic Committee of Kashmir National Party, political analyst and author of many books and booklets. Also he is Director Institute of Kashmir Affairs.Email: drshabirchoudhry at gmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sat Nov 6 22:48:21 2010 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 17:18:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in>, , , , <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in>, , <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in>, Message-ID: Obliterate the proponents of 'azadi -bara -e- Islam' ( freedom through/for Islam) & you will realise that Kashmir was always part of India.It is not a dream,Kashmiri Muslims themselves will chase these 'azadi' pedllers to the caves of Tora Bora....it is only a matter of time. Rgds all LA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:41:01 +0530 > From: indersalim at gmail.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > Dear Bipin > > you dont answer me, > > how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India > without the presence of Army ? > > > please answer > > but with love > is > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > > > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me sending again bellow. > > > > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate first in the proper direction. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM > > To: reader-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > > > Dear Bipin > > > > it is 100 per cent > > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does not work > > > > what can one do? > > > > love in any case > > > > is > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day dream..............keep it up > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM > >> To: reader-list > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > >> > >> dear Samvit > >> > >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, > >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and > >> your like minded friends are reacting. > >> > >> yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some > >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has > >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the > >> history of Radio of those days. > >> > >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 > >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. > >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day > >> light, not night, right > >> > >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or what ? > >> > >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should > >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and > >> how can you reverse that.? > >> > >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, > >> with love > >> is > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: > >>> Inder, > >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not > >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this > >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others > >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. > >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. > >>> -SR > >>> > >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > >>>> > >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > >>>> > >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > >>>> > >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > >>>> > >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > >>>> > >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > >>>> > >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu > >>>> > 4fA > >>>> > > >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 > >>>> > > >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and > >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end > >>>> > unrest > >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. > >>>> > > >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey > >>>> > found > >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour > >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. > >>>> > > >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent > >>>> > in > >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should > >>>> > belong > >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. > >>>> > > >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite > >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the > >>>> > survey, > >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. > >>>> > > >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the > >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de > >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. > >>>> > > >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? > >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. > >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how > >>>> > they > >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant > >>>> > source > >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian > >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. > >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a > >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". > >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption > >>>> > of > >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. > >>>> > > >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but > >>>> > a > >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. > >>>> > > >>>> > _________________________________________ > >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sat Nov 6 22:51:32 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 22:51:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> Message-ID: <000201cb7dd7$0eac61d0$2c052570$@in> Dear Inder, Thanks for calling me Indian nationalist. Presence of Army is not against Kashmir valley people and we don't need to protect Kashmir since it is belong to India. Army is for protecting infiltration of terrorist from across the border carried out by rogue Pakistan. It is to protect from Pakistan only. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:41 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE Dear Bipin you dont answer me, how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India without the presence of Army ? please answer but with love is On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me sending again bellow. > > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate first in the proper direction. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > Dear Bipin > > it is 100 per cent > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does not work > > what can one do? > > love in any case > > is > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day dream..............keep it up >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM >> To: reader-list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE >> >> dear Samvit >> >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and >> your like minded friends are reacting. >> >> yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the >> history of Radio of those days. >> >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day >> light, not night, right >> >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or what ? >> >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and >> how can you reverse that.? >> >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >>> Inder, >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send spam. >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >>> -SR >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>>> > 4fA >>>> > >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>>> > >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>>> > unrest >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>>> > >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >>>> > found >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>>> > >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >>>> > in >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>>> > belong >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>>> > >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >>>> > survey, >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>>> > >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>>> > >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >>>> > they >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >>>> > source >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption >>>> > of >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>>> > >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >>>> > a >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>>> > >>>> > _________________________________________ >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 6 22:50:54 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 10:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <822328.68916.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Shivam About the relationship with the police - its a bit complicated and delicate situation here. There is definitely an understanding of chai-paani (I see currency notes changing hands all the time). Even the local politicians play brokers between police and construction mafia. And there are rates fixed per sq ft and so on. But this relationship keeps changing depending on the larger political and communal situation. Why is it that in some places (of Delhi) the cops are able to apply the law, and the bribe doesn't help (for instance the illegal construction and factories don't work). The greasing of palms is definitely a reality (possibly even for child-labour), but due to the recent violent events (not just the "encounter" but many other skirmishes) the Delhi police has declared this area a sort of "communal hotspot" and have thrown in their towels for touching anything illegal that goes on here. The same sentiment is followed by other "outsiders" such as auto and taxi drivers (try taking an auto or taxi from anywhere to Batla house, and see their reaction). I may be wrong but I think it is a combination of the bribe as well as an imagined "communal" threat that is stopping the police from eliminating any illegal activity. If you want, I can provide you with more insights on how this "threat" is being created by the cops. Yousuf --- On Sat, 11/6/10, shivam at kafila.org wrote: From: shivam at kafila.org Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar To: "Yousuf" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 10:00 PM Dear Yousuf, Many thanks for bringing this to wider attention. The use of the religion card in such a manner is very unfortunate and should be condemned by all. In effect this is resulting in the use of religion to perpetuate the exploitation of children. The local community 'leaders' of Jamia Nagar, the politicians, religious functionaries and old residents should all rethink what they have just done. With an act like this they are delegtimising their valid concerns with the security apparatus post-Batla encounter. For the next time they cry blue murder, who will take them seriously? For so many who have stood with the Jamia Nagar residents, particularly the university teachers, the Jamia community owes an answer. There's one point you make that I disagree with. You say that the religion card comes in the way of the authorities checking illegal construction. My understanding is that the residents have a very good understanding with the police as far as that is concerned. This 'under-standing' is regarding the standing rates under the table, the chai paani you know. It is the same as everywhere. In fact, having learnt from some old residents about this relationship of the Under Standing that the Jamia community has with the police and authorities, I was quite fascinated that this rather secular relationship continued despite and after the fake encounter/ police murder. Knowing our police, it is very likely that the Bachpan Bachao Andolan raid and consequent rescue of the children from the rescuers by the mob would have been followed by some Under Standing between the children's employers and the police. bestshivam On 4 November 2010 20:53, Yousuf wrote: Dear all Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these children and were taking them away, but their operation failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around them and snatched all the children back. They spread the rumour that the activists were “conspiring against Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central university whose many staff, teachers and students reside here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, Gandhian studies and host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the lamp there seems darkness. This is not the first time that the local people used the “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to improve their lot. Of course there has been a lot of insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light of the generalisations made by the media and the police about the people of this area. But this can also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local backlash, the authorities have decided in the recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the zari factories are all part of the growing monster that this area has become. And the religious identity is a good excuse to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of  course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing here hoping that at least some discussion or debate could ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. But more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious identity for petty issues, and how real are these “conspiracies against Muslims”. Any ideas? Yousuf Saeed ---- Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient attitude of administration On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted a raid and rescue operation in their effort to eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue operation.  Children in this area were involved in the zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years to 13 years of age. The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children and they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who introduced themselves as some members of a political organization, along with the owners of the industry came and interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two person propagated a communal flavour during conversation with our team members and motivated the people by saying that these people are against Muslims. As a result of their interruption the local people started gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials and the people from the labour department remained standing as mere spectators and most of them disappeared from the spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did not take any action and at last we had to return back empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said in this context “This happened because of the inefficient attitude of the administration but our activists will continue this movement against those who are responsible for creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued children are rescued in that area Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate authority to take proper action against who interrupted the official work by sustaining the rescue operation and forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php Also see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: -- shivam at kafila.org | Delhi From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 23:12:54 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 13:42:54 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and otherdilemmas ofJamia Nagar References: <3B2F275ED6F94057B3BF48AB612E85F4@tara><204773.55412.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000401cb7dd0$081cb600$18562200$@in> Message-ID: <80DF23A8847E4C9F9029F8125AC4DCDB@tara> I don't see any need to react like this. Yousuf's comment about Islam in relation to child labor was in response to my email that wanted to know what, if at all anything, does Islam say about child labor. Yousuf's interest was not to glorifying any aspect of Islam or demonize any aspect of any other religion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bipin Trivedi" To: "'Yousuf'" Cc: "sarai-list" Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and otherdilemmas ofJamia Nagar > It is nice to hear that Islam doesn't say anything about child labor and > gentle/kind/loving towards children. But, such teachings are not > restricted to Islam. Such teachings are there in all the religion. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Yousuf > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:46 PM > To: sarai list; TaraPrakash > Cc: jmi list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas > ofJamia Nagar > > Dear Tara Prakash > Thanks for your message. Just to respond to the last bit of your mail - > Islam doesn't say anything specific about child-labour, probably because > it didn't exist then. But Prophet Muhammad was in favour of being kind, > gentle and loving with children. He managed to stop the practice of female > infanticide which was prevalent in Mecca then. Islam is also against > unfair trade and exploitation of the labourers and workers. The Prophet > said, "Pay the worker his wages before his sweat gets dried." > > Putting this together, one can definitely say that exploitation of > children for work is unIslamic. But how dare an outsider (NGO) say this to > the community. > > thanks > > Yousuf > > --- On Fri, 11/5/10, TaraPrakash wrote: > >> From: TaraPrakash >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other >> dilemmas ofJamia Nagar >> To: "Yousuf" , "sarai list" >> Cc: "jmi list" >> Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 9:57 AM > >> It's a good question Yousuf but sadly >> you won't find a reasonable answer on this list. The answer >> requires little rational thinking, but of late we are >> reacting emotionally most of the time ont his list. >> I would like to say though that Indian intelligentsia is >> largely complicit in this on going human rights violation. >> There is a hidden property in the definition of human >> rights, that unless it is the state involved it can't be >> called violation. >> If your name suggested that you were Hindu, by now a lot of >> people would have pelted their metaphorical stones at you. >> Yours seems to be a minority voice, we don't give a damn for >> the minorities with in minority. Those who can bark the >> loudest get heard. I hope Jamia Solidarity kind of >> organization will be formed at JMI to help these children. >> I wonder if Islam says anything against child labor. I can >> say for sure though that it does not say anything in favor >> of it. >> >> Keep asking the tough question. May be you will some day >> get a satisfactory answer. > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" >> To: "sarai list" >> Cc: "jmi list" >> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:23 AM >> Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and >> other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar >> >> >> > Dear all >> > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New >> Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO >> Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to >> rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari >> industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these >> children and were taking them away, but their operation >> failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around >> them and snatched all the children back. They spread the >> rumour that the activists were “conspiring against >> Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. >> The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking >> any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn >> of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) >> > >> > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the >> presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance >> of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is >> more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the >> entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The >> neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central >> university whose many staff, teachers and students reside >> here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the >> study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority >> Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, >> Gandhian studies and host of others (see >> http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the >> lamp there seems darkness. >> > >> > This is not the first time that the local people used >> the “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to >> improve their lot. Of course there has been a lot of >> insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist >> encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and >> anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be >> understood in the light of the generalisations made by the >> media and the police about the people of this area. But this >> can also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the >> fear of local backlash, the authorities have decided in the >> recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal >> construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow >> and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become >> utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the >> zari factories are all part of the growing monster that this >> area has become. And the religious identity is a good excuse >> to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of >> > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s >> aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent >> CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. >> > >> > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am >> writing here hoping that at least some discussion or debate >> could ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. >> But more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood >> needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious >> identity for petty issues, and how real are these >> “conspiracies against Muslims”. >> > >> > Any ideas? >> > >> > Yousuf Saeed >> > >> > ---- >> > >> > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to >> inefficient attitude of administration >> > >> > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan >> alongwith the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police >> conducted a raid and rescue operation in their effort to >> eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After >> rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child >> labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context >> BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South >> on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all >> stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue >> date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team >> gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for >> identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha >> and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue >> operation. Children in this area were involved in the >> zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years >> to 13 years of age. >> > >> > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and >> the teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children >> and they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out >> of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who >> introduced themselves as some members of a political >> organization, along with the owners of the industry came and >> interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two >> person propagated a communal flavour during conversation >> with our team members and motivated the people by saying >> that these people are against Muslims. >> > >> > As a result of their interruption the local people >> started gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials >> and the people from the labour department remained standing >> as mere spectators and most of them disappeared from the >> spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated >> indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders >> namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of >> obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the >> children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. >> > >> > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department >> did not take any action and at last we had to return back >> empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said >> in this context “This happened because of the inefficient >> attitude of the administration but our activists will >> continue this movement against those who are responsible for >> creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued >> children are rescued in that area >> > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate >> authority to take proper action against who interrupted the >> official work by sustaining the rescue operation and >> forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering >> cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery >> (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an >> illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), >> Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public >> servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), >> Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death >> (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. >> > >> > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php >> > >> > Also see: >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 23:17:36 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 23:17:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: The problem with Arundhati Roy Message-ID: Hi I have tried to read all (at least tried, not successfully though) the views of people on this forum regarding Arundhati Roy, both for and against. And based on that, I have had my own feelings. In my view, there are two problems associated with Arundhati Roy, one on the side of those who read her views, and one on her own side: a) From our side, we tend to concentrate more on Roy rather than on the issue itself. Be it the building of dams, the nuclear testing at Pokhran (1974 or 1998), or even Naxalism, we tend to look more at Roy's support or condemnation of these issues rather than actually looking at the points she has raised on the issue itself. Why should we be concerned with Roy's romanticization of Naxalites? Our focus should be the reasons why Naxalism is gaining roots in India, or the reasons why mega dams should not be built in India. This has been the case not only with Roy. The support or opposition to Sardar Sarovar dam is not at all related to facts, it is instead related to useless arguments like 'development v/s environment', Gujarat v/s the rest of India and all that. Some people on this forum talk about Modi or others in Gujarat as being the only ones concerned about development, while all the rest of us don't bother about it one bit. And Roy therefore gets portrayed as anti-development, or even Medha Patkar for that matter. Even in the case of nuclear testing, Naxalism or other issues, facts are instead replaced by polemical arguments which don't help one bit. And we must concentrate on facts rather than nonsense. b) From Arundhati's side, there are two issues I have: 1) Firstly, when I look at Arundhati, I do understand she is asking for an alternative way of living in the world. I do know that while the current way is more leaning towards the rightist way of economic and political understanding, the leftist way (at least in India) does look at an alternative way of living in India. Some politicians of the Leftist hue in India have called it 'alternate economics' also. And in a sense Arundhati may be more extreme in it. But when I read her articles, I don't get one bit about how this alternative bit should be. At least reading the articles or views of the Left politicians (or even Naxalites) in India, we can get an idea of how they want the world to be. Even P.Sainath makes sense to me, but when Arundhati says 'Can't we leave the bauxite in the earth?', I want to know whether this means bauxite will never be mined at all (or will be never mined in India). And I get no answers. Moreover, I know for certain that Left is against globalization in certain ways, and would go for trade protectionism, but will argue for globalization in terms of strengthening worker movements. Sainath on the other hand is against globalization. But Roy's views seem like going nowhere. She will stop something from happening, which in itself is not bad, but I have no clue what she will support. And there it goes. Even beyond all this, she calls the Indian state neo-liberalist, but does not specify what kind of state it must be. Is it a Maoist state? 2) The other big problem what I have with Roy is in terms of her hyperbole. I agree the Indian state has not been good in terms of many commitments it has made through the Constitution. If we look at reduction in poverty, it has been abysmal. If we look at the four basic aspects of human life required for every human being: food, education, health and employment, the Indian state would reach the lowest possible depths of performance (or probably it would be bottomless). And yes, the state has ensured the benefits of the elites who have captured the space for it, inflicting one injustice after another on the people, which we can see in our day-to-day lives. But the Indian state does have a few (very few, but yes few) achievements to its credit. This is a democratic state among people divided on the basis of caste, creed, language, religion and region-based lines. This is a state residing in a neighborhood where dictators rule the roost (or have ruled the roost mostly), be it Pakistan, Bhutan, China, Myanmar or Nepal. The destruction of the Indian state would not necessarily lead to a big change in the lives of the people. Infact, it will lead to only further chaos. A better thing to do will be to improve the functioning of the state while competing and clashing with the view of the elites who think they can get away with earning billions while the rest of the countrymen suffer because they are poor and the rich thrive on the inequality in the society. Roy is not dong the first in any way, except may be in the case of Dec. 13 Parliament attacks, but there again the facts were collected by others, and she just put it (or one can say, edited it). As for the second, she is doing that, but one must have an alternative vision to fight for, otherwise one will not be able to change anything much at least. And destroying the Indian state is not going to achieve that. Capturing the Indian state may achieve that. What can have a greater say is to expose the situation before the people, and that is only possible through facts, rather than hyperbole. In other words, yes, things are indeed bad, we are fucked up, we are in a deep crisis, but to declare oneself as a mobile republic like she does, is the complete nonsense. And if I want to learn from a Roy, I would rather it be Aruna rather than Arundhati. Rakesh From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 23:48:37 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 23:48:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Lalit see, does it make any difference by adding Bar-e islam with Azadi. do u see Islam as a scar on their foreheads , i dont see, in spite of the fact that i am not a believer , but i respect the sentiments of the other, be it Hindu or Sikh or what ever and how will you chase the entire kashmiri population to Tora Bora. and how do you think that those caves belong to Muslims there, my dear they will be sooner or later occupied by Americans-Chinese and Pakistanis it will be a different world after some time. Very deep and dangerous things are happening and believe me, you will support this resistance that time, if we both are alive. What happened to KP community was tragic, most sad and i dont see any way out to that problem, if you aim to resolve that by mixing it with Indian Nationalism, it is a log jam. . I believe, KP will best serve their cultural moorings by restoring links with their KM's back in the valley. it would be again sad to provoke KMs and make them more indifferent to anything which has a Pandit tag in the valley. KPs need to realize the priority, is it Indian Nationalism or their Language/cutlure or even returning back to homes. I would love to see the later restored at the cost of former well, dear Bipin, i would love to see Kashmir as part of India if it happens very naturally. but has it since 1947. Kashmir was part of India in the past so was India part of Central Asia, and vice versa. History is history, Alexandra once annexed large part of India with his empire, Recent history tells me that that Kashmir was annexed by Akbar by killing Yousuf Shah Check and since then it a part of India. Even British thought it far and costly affair to maintain, and so sold it. What is your solution to the present mess, complete alienation? Army ? love is On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Obliterate the proponents of 'azadi -bara -e- Islam' ( freedom through/for > Islam) & you will realise that Kashmir was always part of India.It is not a > dream,Kashmiri Muslims themselves will chase these 'azadi' pedllers to the > caves of Tora Bora....it is only a matter of time. > Rgds all > LA > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:41:01 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >> INDEPENDENCE >> >> Dear Bipin >> >> you dont answer me, >> >> how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India >> without the presence of Army ? >> >> >> please answer >> >> but with love >> is >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> > Dear Inder, >> > >> > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me >> > sending again bellow. >> > >> > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating >> > constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to >> > divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and >> > will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that >> > their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate >> > first in the proper direction. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Bipin Trivedi >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >> > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >> > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM >> > To: reader-list >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >> > INDEPENDENCE >> > >> > Dear Bipin >> > >> > it is 100 per cent >> > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does >> > not work >> > >> > what can one do? >> > >> > love in any case >> > >> > is >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi >> > wrote: >> >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day >> >> dream..............keep it up >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >> >> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM >> >> To: reader-list >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >> >> INDEPENDENCE >> >> >> >> dear Samvit >> >> >> >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, >> >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and >> >> your like minded friends are reacting. >> >> >> >> yes,  it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some >> >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has >> >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the >> >> history of Radio of those days. >> >> >> >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 >> >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. >> >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day >> >> light, not night, right >> >> >> >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, >> >> or what ? >> >> >> >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should >> >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and >> >> how can you reverse that.? >> >> >> >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, >> >> with love >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >> >>> Inder, >> >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >> >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of >> >>> this >> >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict >> >>> others >> >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send >> >>> spam. >> >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >> >>> -SR >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >> >>>> > 4fA >> >>>> > >> >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >> >>>> > >> >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian >> >>>> > and >> >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >> >>>> > unrest >> >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent >> >>>> > survey >> >>>> > found >> >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >> >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the >> >>>> > sub-continent >> >>>> > in >> >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >> >>>> > belong >> >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the >> >>>> > plebiscite >> >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >> >>>> > survey, >> >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess >> >>>> > the >> >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- >> >>>> > the de >> >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >> >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >> >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on >> >>>> > how >> >>>> > they >> >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a >> >>>> > constant >> >>>> > source >> >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of >> >>>> > Indian >> >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one >> >>>> > percent. >> >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted >> >>>> > a >> >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >> >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the >> >>>> > eruption >> >>>> > of >> >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over >> >>>> > Kashmir, but >> >>>> > a >> >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > _________________________________________ >> >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> >> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >>>> _________________________________________ >> >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From adityarajbaul at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 23:57:28 2010 From: adityarajbaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Baul) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 23:57:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: did the survey find 'any' majority for Indian rule? On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu > 4fA > > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 > > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end unrest > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. > > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey found > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. > > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent in > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should belong > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. > > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. > > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. > > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how they > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant source > of tension between India and Pakistan. > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of > the insurgency in 1989. > > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but a > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sun Nov 7 04:11:32 2010 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 04:11:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: The problem with Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Rakesh Thank you for such an honest response. I understand some of the things you have underlined here and would want to contribute my two bit. When Arundhati states something, two things happen, and simultaneously: One, the 'fact'[or the absence thereof, if you like it have it this way] is stated; two, what matters much in stating a fact is the subject position of its enunciator. A fact is not something entirely dissociated from the person who states it. Arundhati's is a peculiar position. Much of her earlier persona was largely a media creation, but when she began stating her mind-with-a-heart, the media didn't know what to do with her. So it would be a mistake to sift a fact from the one who states it and her/his ethical stand regarding it. A singular 'fact' and Arundhati, who enunciates it passionately by creating a 'romance' around it, create a curious compound which becomes a perfect counter to the myriad discourses propagated by the hegemonic State and its stooges. To me, a fact is less a rational statement and much more a moral-ethical position. So for me the fact would be more your ethical standing/position regarding the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki rather than merely stating that this-much kilo tonne of explosive was detonated on such and such date by a fighter jet of such making at such and such place. Also, and this particular argument i have heard umpteen times, "She only enumerates our shortfalls but never cares to tell us what the solution is!" And believe you me, i have always understood this lament as an act of bad faith. This question tells us more about the people who ask it rather than the people who we expect to answer it. Despite being conscious votaries of rational choice we have still not been able to get rid of our spurious unconscious that longs for a messiah to deliver us through such a river of fire that today's world is. Doesn't our longing for 'the final solution' / the final deliverance from all our worldly miseries have a fascist tinge to it? What is it that makes us uncomfortable when faced with the notion of a fractured 'god'? Why is it that all our queries end at the beginning, that is, the integer one, our own universal gravitational constant? Are we terminally doomed to think vertically rather than horizontally? Such questions have continuously amused me and i wonder if they indeed are properly formed questions. Moreover, why is it that we are running after Arundhati for answers to the questions she has raised or is raising? Isn't it enough that she has at least taken all the trouble to raise those problematic questions? Can't you see the dumb majority that Arundhati once represented: the curious breed of Indian writers writing in English? Why is it that her entire erstwhile fraternity is not with her? What are they afraid of, the fear of which she has valorously conquered? Raising questions that need to be asked is a feat greater than finding answers for it is the well posed questions that are the repositories of right answers. Also, polemics have their own place in a discourse. Wouldn't it be better if we define 'polemics' in Arundhati's case to be 'a passionate stating of an ethical position'? Your putting an excessive emphasis on 'facts' is telling. The turf of today's wars has not only shifted to the cyber sphere but also to the ethics of engagement. While the tyrants could easily forge hundreds of contradictory 'facts' it takes something to falsify an ethical position. To counter a facthics [fact+ethics] you would need to engage personally, with all of your vajood, putting the entire weight of your existence behind your argument. You can't remain aloof and claim sacrosanctity while at the same time claiming to contradict a facthics. The phenomenon that Arundhati is demands your complete engagement at the level of facthics. You can't indulge in bargepole bashing, you shall have to dirty your feet and soul [ pardon the vocabulary] while engaging with her. Our criterion of judging you would be based on facthics rather than mere the soundness of 'facts'. Subsequently, i find your presumption of State as a monolith quite problematic. The need is not to capture power ascribed to the State but to entirely change the nature of power and the rules that govern it. Its like re-engineering the entire ergonomics of the chair [the seat of power] itself rather than just jostling to capture it. Additionally, calling oneself a 'mobile republic' is a fantastic [ and not fanciful] statement of one's existential position. It might be a complete nonsense to you but does it bother Arundhati a bit? Nope; it should you instead, as it does indeed. The beauty of Arundhati's calling herself a 'mobile republic' lies in the facthics that she always already engages you, existentially. So rather than calling her bluff you need to state your own ethics of engagement and define your facthics. Best Pheeta Ram From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Nov 7 05:37:43 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 05:37:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: The problem with Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Pheeta Thanks for the reply. My response is put below. According to me, you have stated two things regarding facts. Firstly, you believe that facts for you contain moral or ethical positions also. For me they are separate. Here we differ. But we can agree to differ. The other disagreement is that facts can be manipulated or generated. This is more an issue of research than anything else. According to me, to say that because facts can be manipulated or generated, we should only indulge in ethical or moral positions is a complete nonsense. As per this argument, I should believe that globalization is always bad or that nuclear bombs are always bad just because someone has some ethical position. But holding such a position according to me, without any facts, is a complete nonsense. Nuclear bombs must be bad based on certain things they do to human beings. Otherwise it will be a case of every human being becoming a khap panchayat in herself or himself. Hence, a total agreement with you on the idea that facts must be combined with ethics, but then for you facts are the same as ethical positions (or personal ethics). For me, they are different. The second point you make is that Arundhati need not take positions. Fair enough. More than that, I am interested in knowing her actual position on things, at least what she does oppose. What is her position on Azadi or even Naxalism? And seriously speaking, what does she want to achieve in those areas? It's one thing advocating the fact that tribals become Naxalites due to an attack on their dignity, and another stating that the Adivasi way of life is the best compared to how we live. That is exactly what Gandhi said, and also why Dalits today prefer Ambedkar over Gandhi (not strange indeed that Ambedkar statues with him in a suit and tie are common across villages where Dalits don't have enough clothes to cover their bodies). If I am appalled at the so-called movement to fight Naxals (Salwa Judum), I am equally appalled at the romanticization of the tribal way of life. (They need education and health please). Moreover, I think we have now passed that time when we can just raise concerns and get away with it. We, all of us, have to start looking for some or the other way to solve our problems, our crisis which confounds us. Just knowing about it and doing nothing is not going to help. This is not the search for 'God', dear Pheeta, it's the search for our lives. If we need to solve the problem of education for all, we will have to work out possible solutions. If we need to ensure health for all, we have to do the same. If we need to ensure good food for all, we have to do the same. And the same continues for other areas also. I don't say you need to know the answer for each and every thing now or at this moment of time, but there is no harm spending our lives in the search for those possible answers so that our future generations don't have to live in trouble. And finally a point or two on ethics of engagement. Of course it bothers me, for people to to think they can get away from their duties (both constitutionally and more importantly, of a human being) by declaring themselves 'mobile republics'. The better way is to fight the system. She doesn't do research, nor does she lead ground movements or participate in them. All the time she has is to make speeches or debate. It's all great for forums like Sarai, but when it comes to doing something, it has nothing. Seriously. In fact, one of the reasons why I have mostly stopped putting posts in Sarai is because most of the posts which I have put (including this one) are just that: the so called debate without either any research or any fight on the ground. What good will this do anyway? (except exhibiting our linguistic and typing skills) My time in Araria, conducting social audit for NREGA, seemed in fact one of the best times simply because I was indeed doing something. Before that, I thought Sarai is doing something great, but slowly I have realized that world is more beyond typing emails. It would be much better if people start putting their time on research and start putting it on Sarai, including Mrs. Roy of course. Or if that were too much, at least let us fight on the ground the movements which can cause a change and write about them simultaneously. Mere words are just like garbage, that's all. Rakesh P.S: Roy making me bother about her mobile republic is only because I am willing to listen, and so are you, and are bothered. For many in the middle class, she is just a trash. And for the BJP, they would just burn her and throw her ashes into the ocean to signify the victory of nationalism (for her views on secession). From shveta at sarai.net Sun Nov 7 09:50:14 2010 From: shveta at sarai.net (shveta at sarai.net) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:50:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and otherdilemmasofJamia Nagar In-Reply-To: <80DF23A8847E4C9F9029F8125AC4DCDB@tara> References: <3B2F275ED6F94057B3BF48AB612E85F4@tara><204773.55412.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000401cb7dd0$081cb600$18562200$@in> , <80DF23A8847E4C9F9029F8125AC4DCDB@tara> Message-ID: <63d8ab5516ce815cd193c2a06db092fe@mail.sarai.net> Of > >> > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s > >> aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent > >> CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. It's interesting that elsewhere people are crying foul because delhi's aspirations of becoming a world class city during the games DID touch areas and neighbourhoods. Here you are suggesting neglect/exclusion because it "didn't touch". Kind of confusing. > >> > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate > >> authority to take proper action against who interrupted the > >> official work by sustaining the rescue operation and > >> forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering > >> cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery > >> (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an > >> illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), > >> Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public > >> servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), > >> Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death > >> (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. Are NGOs now openly becoming weapons of the state? warmly shveta From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Nov 7 10:04:10 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 10:04:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and otherdilemmas ofJamia Nagar In-Reply-To: <80DF23A8847E4C9F9029F8125AC4DCDB@tara> References: <3B2F275ED6F94057B3BF48AB612E85F4@tara> <204773.55412.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000401cb7dd0$081cb600$18562200$@in> <80DF23A8847E4C9F9029F8125AC4DCDB@tara> Message-ID: We have something called Child Labour (Prohibition and Regulation) Act 1986. Child is defined as: "Child" means a person who has not completed his fourteenth year of age; Then we have, Juvenile Justice (JJ) Care and Protection of Children Act, 2000: In this act a child or juvenile is defined as a person who has not completed his/her 18th year of age. The act further goes on to say: "A person, who employs a child in a hazardous industry, employs him/her for begging or provides a child with drugs or alcohol is liable to serve prison time and pay fines." Further amendment of the act resulted in 2006: "Section 21 of the Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of Children) Act, 2000 (56 of 2000) as amended by the Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of Children) Amendment Act, 2006 (33 of 2006)., states that: “Prohibition of publication of name, etc., of juvenile or child in need of care and protection involved in any proceeding under the Act-(1) No report in any newspaper, magazine, news-sheet or visual media of any inquiry regarding a juvenile in conflict with law or a child in need of care and protection under this Act shall disclose the name, address or school or any other particulars calculated to lead to the identification of the juvenile or child shall nor shall any picture of any such juvenile or child shall be published: Provided that for any reason to be recorded in writing, the authority holding the inquiry may permit such disclosure, if in its opinion such disclosure is in the interest of the juvenile or the child. (2) Any person who contravenes the provisions of sub-section (1), shall be liable to a penalty which may extend to twenty-five thousand rupees”." However, surprisingly no attention was paid to the fact that the age stated in the Child Labour (Prohibition and Regulation Act) 1986 and JJ Care and Protection of Children Act 2006 differ. I wonder why? If we someone could clarify, Thanks Anupam On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:12 PM, TaraPrakash wrote: > I don't see any need to react like this. Yousuf's comment about Islam in > relation to child labor was in response to my email that wanted to know > what, if at all anything, does Islam say about child labor. Yousuf's > interest was not to glorifying any aspect of Islam or demonize any aspect of > any other religion. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bipin Trivedi" > > To: "'Yousuf'" > Cc: "sarai-list" > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and otherdilemmas > ofJamia Nagar > > > It is nice to hear that Islam doesn't say anything about child labor and >> gentle/kind/loving towards children. But, such teachings are not restricted >> to Islam. Such teachings are there in all the religion. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] >> On Behalf Of Yousuf >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:46 PM >> To: sarai list; TaraPrakash >> Cc: jmi list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas >> ofJamia Nagar >> >> Dear Tara Prakash >> Thanks for your message. Just to respond to the last bit of your mail - >> Islam doesn't say anything specific about child-labour, probably because it >> didn't exist then. But Prophet Muhammad was in favour of being kind, gentle >> and loving with children. He managed to stop the practice of female >> infanticide which was prevalent in Mecca then. Islam is also against unfair >> trade and exploitation of the labourers and workers. The Prophet said, "Pay >> the worker his wages before his sweat gets dried." >> >> Putting this together, one can definitely say that exploitation of >> children for work is unIslamic. But how dare an outsider (NGO) say this to >> the community. >> >> thanks >> >> Yousuf >> >> --- On Fri, 11/5/10, TaraPrakash wrote: >> >> From: TaraPrakash >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other >>> dilemmas ofJamia Nagar >>> To: "Yousuf" , "sarai list" >>> Cc: "jmi list" >>> Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 9:57 AM >>> >> >> It's a good question Yousuf but sadly >>> you won't find a reasonable answer on this list. The answer >>> requires little rational thinking, but of late we are >>> reacting emotionally most of the time ont his list. >>> I would like to say though that Indian intelligentsia is >>> largely complicit in this on going human rights violation. >>> There is a hidden property in the definition of human >>> rights, that unless it is the state involved it can't be >>> called violation. >>> If your name suggested that you were Hindu, by now a lot of >>> people would have pelted their metaphorical stones at you. >>> Yours seems to be a minority voice, we don't give a damn for >>> the minorities with in minority. Those who can bark the >>> loudest get heard. I hope Jamia Solidarity kind of >>> organization will be formed at JMI to help these children. >>> I wonder if Islam says anything against child labor. I can >>> say for sure though that it does not say anything in favor >>> of it. >>> >>> Keep asking the tough question. May be you will some day >>> get a satisfactory answer. >>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" >>> To: "sarai list" >>> Cc: "jmi list" >>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:23 AM >>> Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and >>> other dilemmas ofJamia Nagar >>> >>> >>> > Dear all >>> > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New >>> Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO >>> Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to >>> rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari >>> industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these >>> children and were taking them away, but their operation >>> failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around >>> them and snatched all the children back. They spread the >>> rumour that the activists were “conspiring against >>> Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. >>> The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking >>> any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn >>> of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) >>> > >>> > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the >>> presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance >>> of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is >>> more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the >>> entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The >>> neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central >>> university whose many staff, teachers and students reside >>> here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the >>> study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority >>> Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, >>> Gandhian studies and host of others (see >>> http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the >>> lamp there seems darkness. >>> > >>> > This is not the first time that the local people used >>> the “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to >>> improve their lot. Of course there has been a lot of >>> insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist >>> encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and >>> anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be >>> understood in the light of the generalisations made by the >>> media and the police about the people of this area. But this >>> can also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the >>> fear of local backlash, the authorities have decided in the >>> recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal >>> construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow >>> and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become >>> utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the >>> zari factories are all part of the growing monster that this >>> area has become. And the religious identity is a good excuse >>> to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of >>> > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s >>> aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent >>> CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. >>> > >>> > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am >>> writing here hoping that at least some discussion or debate >>> could ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. >>> But more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood >>> needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious >>> identity for petty issues, and how real are these >>> “conspiracies against Muslims”. >>> > >>> > Any ideas? >>> > >>> > Yousuf Saeed >>> > >>> > ---- >>> > >>> > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to >>> inefficient attitude of administration >>> > >>> > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan >>> alongwith the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police >>> conducted a raid and rescue operation in their effort to >>> eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After >>> rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child >>> labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context >>> BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South >>> on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all >>> stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue >>> date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team >>> gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for >>> identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha >>> and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue >>> operation. Children in this area were involved in the >>> zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years >>> to 13 years of age. >>> > >>> > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and >>> the teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children >>> and they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out >>> of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who >>> introduced themselves as some members of a political >>> organization, along with the owners of the industry came and >>> interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two >>> person propagated a communal flavour during conversation >>> with our team members and motivated the people by saying >>> that these people are against Muslims. >>> > >>> > As a result of their interruption the local people >>> started gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials >>> and the people from the labour department remained standing >>> as mere spectators and most of them disappeared from the >>> spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated >>> indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders >>> namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of >>> obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the >>> children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. >>> > >>> > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department >>> did not take any action and at last we had to return back >>> empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said >>> in this context “This happened because of the inefficient >>> attitude of the administration but our activists will >>> continue this movement against those who are responsible for >>> creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued >>> children are rescued in that area >>> > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate >>> authority to take proper action against who interrupted the >>> official work by sustaining the rescue operation and >>> forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering >>> cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery >>> (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an >>> illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), >>> Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public >>> servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), >>> Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death >>> (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. >>> > >>> > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php >>> > >>> > Also see: > >>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From shveta at sarai.net Sun Nov 7 11:23:27 2010 From: shveta at sarai.net (shveta at sarai.net) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 11:23:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar In-Reply-To: References: <111203.36724.qm@web51405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> , Message-ID: <01ce926fd4cb63437d00e0b0f62e79de@mail.sarai.net> On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:00:03 +0530 "shivam at kafila.org" wrote > With an act like this they are delegtimising their > valid concerns with the security apparatus post-Batla encounter. For the > next time they cry blue murder, who will take them seriously? For so many > who have stood with the Jamia Nagar residents, particularly the university > teachers, the Jamia community owes an answer. dear Shivam Does the "Jamia community" have a spokesperson who will communicate the answer? Or are you asking for some soul-searching generally? How will you know if this has been done - since it seems to be a pre-condition for future solidarity in times of difficult encounters with the State apparatus? warmly shveta From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Sun Nov 7 15:01:08 2010 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 15:01:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [feministsindia] Mental Health & Psychosocial Support in Conflict Message-ID: <948587.29705.qm@web94710.mail.in2.yahoo.com> From: ponni arasu To: feministsindia at yahoogroups.com; youthforsocialchange at googlegroups.com; Young activists Sent: Fri, 5 November, 2010 11:31:40 PM Subject: [feministsindia] Mental Health & Psychosocial Support in Conflict A course run by friends in Sri Lanka who are committed activists and practitioners working in the area of Psychosocial support in the context of conflict. Would be a good oppurtunity for organisations and individuals in the field or with interest, to learn, exchange strategies and experiences and just meet one another. An oppurtunity to establish regional solidarities and working partnerships in the area. And for a change, it is not the big brother India telling everyone else, what and how to do things! :) Do consider applying. Warm Regards, Ponni. TRAINING COURSE Mental Health & Psychosocial Support in Conflict 15-21 December 2010, Batticaloa, Sri Lanka Course Concept and Programme OVERALL OBJECTIVES By the end of the course, participants will be able to: · Contextualize Mental Health & Psychosocial Support (MHPSS) approaches within developments within the wider sector, both globally and in the South Asia region. · Apply MHPSS conceptual frameworks and tools for analysis of community and individual level concerns and for planning interventions · Respond to common institutional, management and operational challenges arising within MHPSS interventions in situations of conflict. COURSE PROGRAMME This seven-day course targets South Asia-based MHPSS practitioners working with mental health or psychosocial programming, and combines classroom-based training, field visits and case study work in a postconflict implementation setting in the East of Sri Lanka. The course will be most appropriate for practitioners with a minimum of 2 years of experience in programme management and technical leadership roles, as well as for field-based MHPSS coordinators and supervisors. It will be led by Ananda Galappatti and Maleeka Salih, and is run in collaboration with The Good Practice Group, Sri Lanka. The course focuses on sharing, questioning, exploring and debating ‘what works in practice’ so that participants are equipped with a working knowledge of diverse approaches and best practices in the MHPSS sector, and are encouraged to explore those which they feel might work best in their current work contexts. It aims to enable participants to reflect on current challenges, constraints and questions, and to work towards synthesizing learning to guide practice following the course. The material will be drawn from both South Asian and global resources, with participants' own work experiences and course fieldwork being central to the learning approach taken. The participants will be required to prepare for the course by communicating their interests and gathering data relevant to MHPSS interventions in their respective countries prior to the start of the course. BACKGROUND Over the past two decades, the field of Mental Health and Psychosocial Support (MHPSS) has grown to become a key dimension of humanitarian and development work during and after emergencies. This has also been the case in South Asia, where MHPSS interventions have been developed in response to conflict, disaster and other forms of adversity. There is considerable diversity within the field of MHPSS intervention, with a range of approaches being used by service providers. In the region, there has been relatively weak cross-country exchange despite there being similar programmatic interventions by humanitarian agencies and government bodies in most countries in South Asia. The findings of a recent review of MHPSS approaches across South Asia (Sonpar, 2008) suggests that there is much that be gained from learning and cross-fertilization of approaches within the region. Over the past decade, the influence and capacity of in-country resource persons has increased in many South Asian conflict-zones, as on-the-ground experience and investment in local skill-building has accumulated. However, knowledge flows have usually been from academic centers and humanitarian headquarters in the global North, rather than from other countries in the region. This course aims to address this gap, and bring together MHPSS practitioners and managers from South Asian conflict and post-conflict zones for structured exchange, co-learning and engagement with recent developments in the field within the region and also globally. It also acknowledges the intersection between violence, disaster and poverty that often characterizes the challenges to the psychosocial wellbeing of people and group affected by recent conflicts in the South Asian region. The PDI-SL is supported by CordAid and International Alert. MODULES 1. Defining the Field Topic 1: Mapping the MHPSS Sector in South Asia Objective: To gain a comparative perspective on the development of the MHPSS sector across South Asia and a better understanding of participants respective relationships to these. Topic 2: Understanding & Measuring Psychosocial Suffering and Wellbeing Objective: To learn about diverse conceptual frameworks for understanding wellbeing and suffering and explore their relevance for practice, to use the conceptual frameworks for understanding well-being and suffering, and to share tools for measuring these. 2. MHPSS in the Real World Topic 1: When the Conflict is Everywhere and in Everything... Objective: To share and systematize experiences of what it means to do mental health and psychosocial support work in conflict situations. Topic 2: Help to Helpers and Self-Care Objective: To engage individual and institutional strategies for strengthening supportive working environments for MHPSS workers. 3. MHPSS Interventions During Conflict and After Topic 1: Integration within Mainstream Relief, Reconstruction & Development Objective: To examine frameworks relevant to the integration of MHPSS into mainstream relief, reconstruction and post-conflict development, and to discuss promising practices and ongoing challenges. Topic 2: Healing Rifts, Reconciliation and Peacebuilding Objective: To apply relevant theoretical frameworks to issues of reconciliation, healing and peacebuilding, examine approaches and implications of different practices in relation to conflict experiences, and to examine ongoing challenges. 4. Building Human Capacity and Developing the MHPSS Sector Topic: Training and Human Capacity-Building Objective: To define content for training programmes in MHPSS work that build relevant and necessary skills for frontline workers, supervisors and managers of MHPSS services, to reflect on best forms and methods of training for frontline workers, supervisors and managers, and on developing an ethic and culture of ongoing learning and networking. 5. Engaging with Practice In-Situ Content : Field Visits Interwoven within each of the other modules. Objective: To engage with selected MHPSS services, interact with management and staff on issues of developing and implementing these services in-situ, and to share and compare participants' experiences in their own contexts. APPLICATIONS & FEES To apply online please go to www.pdisl.org or email frances at pdisl.org or info at pdisl.org Application deadline: Thursday 25th November 2010 Course fee: International organizations and institutions: $600.00 National organizations and institutions: $300.00 Early Bird rate (apply by Monday November 15th): discount of $50.00 'I am really glad I made it to the course - it was extremely useful. The course has made me think of my work, my role, my profession and its place in [the] overall psychosocial context in a different way. Thank you!' - Rubeena Kidwai, Psychologist (Pakistan), 2009 http://www.pdisl.org/courses/specialised_courses/mental_health_and_psychosocial_work_in_conflict The PDI-SL is supported by CordAid and International Alert. -- in the dark times Will there also be singing? Yes, there will also be singing about the dark times. - Bertolt Brecht www.kafila.org __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: * New Members 1 Visit Your Group To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feministsindia/ To change settings online go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feministsindia/join (Yahoo!ID required) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: feministsindia-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Nov 7 19:52:50 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:52:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: Inder Tikoo sahab, 100% members don't want you on Sarai list. Do you need helping hand to leave now or would you volunteer? I won't give you even that 0.001%. No Communal rhetoric. love Aditya Raj Kaul (One among lacs of J&K Citizens who are proud to be Indian) On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Aditya Raj Baul wrote: > did the survey find 'any' majority for Indian rule? > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu > > 4fA > > > > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 > > > > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and > > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end > unrest > > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. > > > > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey > found > > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour > > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. > > > > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent > in > > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should > belong > > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. > > > > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite > > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, > > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. > > > > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the > > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de > > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. > > > > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? > > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. > > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how > they > > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant > source > > of tension between India and Pakistan. > > > > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a > > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 > > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. > > > > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian > > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. > > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a > > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". > > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of > > the insurgency in 1989. > > > > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but > a > > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Nov 7 20:32:14 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 20:32:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Kashmir=92s_Diwali_gift=2E=2E=2Ea_?= =?windows-1252?q?day_without_fear_-_Randeep_Singh_=26_M_Saleem_Pan?= =?windows-1252?q?dit=2C?= Message-ID: Kashmir’s Diwali gift...a day without fearRandeep Singh & M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Nov 7, 2010, 04.07am IST After months, Srinagar was enjoying a holiday. The bazaars were bustling; the parks were full; whole families spreading picnic rugs to eat a lazy lunch; their children ran around laughing and playing. A gentle breeze rustled the orange and yellow chinar trees. The poplars in Hazratbal waved gently. Syed Ali Shah Geelani appeared to have give Kashmiris a Diwalipresent they could barely have imagined or hoped for... a day without fear. But, as the sun went down and millions of diyas lit up all over India, Srinagar started to shut down too. Just how much became apparent by dark, as we drove around. There was no aarti at the famous Ganpatyar temple in the former Pandit locality of Habba Kadal. The street is lined with eerily empty, ruined houses. The deserted temple was pitch dark. It was clear that a supremely relaxed Diwali day had changed mood and Srinagar was back in the mode to which it was used. We turned back, wary of the stones routinely flung at vehicles in downtown Srinagar after dark. But at least the hotel had made an effort. The swimming pool was ringed around by big chinar leaves, each bearing a lit diya. The lights cast shadows on the water. In the coffee shop though, we found company that reflected the dichotomy of Kashmir this autumn. Two young police officers, let's call them Arif and Abbas, said they were winding down after a strangely peaceful day. Both serve in downtown Srinagar - and have done for five months now. Both have been on the frontline confronting mobs of frenzied youth pelting stones to shouts of azadi. In their mid-30s, the officers are particularly vulnerable because they are Kashmiri and often have to strike positions seemingly at odds with their people. They are flagbearers of the Indian state, but alienated from their land and their country. As they talk, it becomes obvious they are in the grip of an emotion not often seen in policemen — anxiety. Who knows what will happen to me, says Abbas. May be one of these days, I will have to go to jail. Arif nods. He is here because he was posted out of the North Kashmir district after a sustained campaign by separatists. This is an officer who has survived a bullet injury fighting militants. It's this anxiety that gnaws at both men. "If I wasn't Kashmiri, I would be a hero today," says Arif. Just a few weeks ago, he led his team in tracking down and killing three foreign militants on the outskirts of Srinagar. But when the time came to talk to the TV cameras and face photographers, Abbas hid away. All the glory wouldn't compensate for unwelcome attention as a Kashmiri who's upholding the Indian state's rule of law. So this is their life. As well as of thousands of policemen all over the valley, facing danger and ostracism. Arif says college students near his house — boys he once played carom or pool with on Sundays — no longer speak to him. At family events, his relations accuse him of being a traitor. As they stand up to leave, one of them exclaims, "There are thousands of Army and paramilitary officers facing the same pressure. But, we live here, we can't pack up after two years and get on with our lives." As we leave, a member of the hotel staff is putting out the candles one by one. Each is extinguished with a slight hiss and in a thin blue plume. It's 8.30 pm. Srinagar's Diwali was over. Read more: Kashmir’s Diwali gift...a day without fear - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/special-report/Kashmirs-Diwali-gift/articleshow/6882001.cms#ixzz0Uccesbjj From samvitr at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 08:58:37 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 08:58:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: Dear Inder Tikoo ji, Please read this article. It comes from a Kashmiri newspaper and it shows how the aazadi mongers are beating up innocent NGOs who want an end to this Geelani sponsored violence. They even burnt a white flag which symbolizes peace. The reality is that truth us being muffled by people like Geelani, Roy and Navlakha. If Geelani does not encourage killings he will be targeted by the ISI and if Arundhati and Navlakha don't encourage the Aazadi mongers then their very existence is at stake. regards, -SR http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/10nov08/news.htm#2 People protest against strikes leads to clashes Excelsior Correspondent SRINAGAR, Nov 7: Fed up with frequent strikes and stone-pelting incidents, over 100 activists belonging to several NGOs today staged a peace rally against shutdowns in the Valley even as hardline Hurriyat Conference led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani eased the protest calendar for next 12 days, calling for only three days of strike. In a related development, the hand cart vendors also defied the call for observing strike on the visit of US President Barack Obama to India as hundreds of roadside vendors decided to set up their stalls. The activists of Jammu and Kashmir NGO Forum, a conglomerate of several NGOs, assembled at TRC ground this morning and carried out a TATA Sumo rally from TRC crossing to Ghanta Ghar at Lal Chowk. They were carrying banners and placards which highlighted the ill effects of the strikes on the economy of Kashmir valley over the past five months. Bashir Ahmad, who was leading the protests, said they were demonstrating against loss of Rs 27000 crores, which has affected all sections of the society as a result of four months continuous hartal. While the economy of Kashmir has been shattered, it has also severely jeopardised the future of young Kashmiris who are not able to get free access to education, he said. "Today the competition demands knowledge and everything else has become subservient to education. How will our children compete with their counterparts in rest of world when they are not able to go to schools?" he asked. However, the peace protestors had to flee from Lal Chowk as a group of youth confronted them. "Who is committing injustice ... those who kill people or those who call for protests against the killings?" asked an angry youth. An altercation ensued in which Bashir Ahmad, despite heavy presence of police, was roughed up and injured by the mob. One of the peace protestors had hoisted a white flag on top of Ghanta Ghar, which was damaged during violent protests on Eidul Fitr day on September 11. However, the flag was taken down by a youth and set ablaze. Police had to fire tear smoke shells and use batons to chase away the mob in Lal Chowk, leading to stone-pelting in nearby Kokerbazaar, Court Road and Maisuma localities. Normalcy was restored within an hour as additional policemen were rushed to the spot for maintaining law and order. This was second protest held against the strikes in the Valley as political activist Farooq Ganderbali had organised a similar protest at Residency Road on September 1. He was also beaten up by a mob that day. Reacting to the protest rally, a senior Hurriyat leader said it was orchestrated by ruling National Conference to defame the ongoing "freedom struggle" Acting general secretary of the Hurriyat led by Geelani warned the National Conference workers to desist from such acts to sabotage the "people's movement" and urged people to follow the protest calendars. However, Geelani himself softened the stand later in the day by allowing nine normal days from November 9 to 20 while issuing a 12-day protest calendar. This is for the first time that people of Valley will get such a long reprieve from the strikes and protests. Geelani has called for strikes and protests on Nov 11, 13 and 15. The first act of defiance came from the roadside vendors, who set their stalls at Sunday Market, as they did not pay heed to Geelani's call for observing 'civil curfew' in connection with Obama visit. Hundreds of stalls were erected early in the morning as the vendors hoped to make up for some of the losses suffered over the past five months. Initially, there were only few customers at their stalls but as the day progressed, the vendors did brisk sales. On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Inder Tikoo sahab, > > 100% members don't want you on Sarai list. Do you need helping hand to leave > now or would you volunteer? I won't give you even that 0.001%. No Communal > rhetoric. > > love > > Aditya Raj Kaul (One among lacs of J&K Citizens who are proud to be Indian) > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Aditya Raj Baul wrote: > >> did the survey find 'any' majority for Indian rule? >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> > >> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >> > 4fA >> > >> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >> > >> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >> unrest >> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >> > >> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >> found >> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >> > >> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >> in >> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >> belong >> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >> > >> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, >> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >> > >> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >> > >> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >> they >> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >> source >> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >> > >> > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> > >> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of >> > the insurgency in 1989. >> > >> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >> a >> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 09:42:40 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 20:12:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Welcoming Lakshmi with 'Bismillah' Message-ID: <617950.63721.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here in India, welcoming Lakshmi with 'Bismillah' Mohammed Wajihuddin and Insiya Amir, TNN, Nov 7, 2010 As a practicing Muslim, Urdu journalist Hasan Kamaal prays five times a day, fasts during the month of Ramzan and donates the mandatory 2.5% of his income as zakat or charity. But when his neighbours on a leafy Bandra lane in Mumbai celebrated Diwali on Friday, Kamaal joined in enthusiastically. Kamaal says it's all part of "sharing joy". He describes the festivities: "Like in the past, this Diwali too, my daughter Sameera kept a few diyas on our doorstep. The flickering diyas looked so beautiful." Kamaal grew up in Lucknow, a city whose syncretic culture had Hindus and Muslims enjoying fireworks displays, lighting lamps and kite-flying contests. Likewise, in Nagpur, the Rassiwalla family, which belongs to the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim sect, celebrated Diwali by opening their account books. Starting the year's trading book on the Hindu new year is traditional among Hindu traders but it is hallowed custom for the Rassiwallas too. "We check for a favourable time on our calendar and open our books on Diwali, except that instead of 'shubh labh' we write 'Bismillah'," says Asghar Rassiwalla, head of the family. He adds that this custom is now no more than a symbolic gesture because the new books only start to be used a few months later, in April, when the new Indian financial year begins. The Rassiwallas are hardly unusual in the Bohra community. Most Bohra traders open new account books on Diwali because their community expressly approves of this. Many also observe other Diwali traditions. "We have been living in a predominantly Hindu colony for the past 40 years. I can't imagine Diwali without gainda phool, diyas, rangoli and crackers. My workers even have a Lakshmi puja," says Zubair Popat, who owns an advertising agency in Delhi. "My family absolutely loves Diwali. How can anyone not?" If Popat and the Rassiwallas are not unusual among Bohras, the Bohras are not unusual among India's many diverse Muslim communities. There are others, for instance, the Ismaili Khoja, a trading community spread across mainly India and Pakistan, who converted to Islam from Hinduism. "Maybe it is because like all good businessmen, we believe that when in Rome, do as the Romans do," reasons Mumbai diamond trader Alam Merchant. "And of course, there is the fact that our lineage lies in Hinduism, so the traditions have passed on through generations regardless of religion," he adds. Is this an elastic quality unique to Indian Islam? Perhaps. It is certainly true that Indian Muslims, through centuries of interaction with India's dominant religion, Hinduism, have adopted several Hindu customs and traditions. Weddings are a case in point. A qazi solemnizes the nikah, ritually recites Quranic verses and delivers, post-nikah, the khutba or sermon. Ideally, a Muslim wedding ends there. Not in India. Elaborate pre-nuptial ceremonies including haldi and mehndi, and post-wedding song and dance of late, feature in Muslim weddings, much like for Hindus. The Quran does not recommend offering lavish food to wedding guests but Indian Muslims are often seen to outdo their Hindu neighbours in serving up multi-course feasts. Some little time ago, Muslim clerics in Hyderabad threatened to boycott weddings if more than one variety of biryani was served up. "Celebrating marriage with a feast is not an Islamic ritual. It has reached Muslims from the Hindu custom of bhoj. But now it is part of Indian Muslim custom too," explains Mumbai-based social commentator Zaheer Ali who has written extensively on India's Ganga-Jamuni tehzeeb or composite culture. Indian Muslims' adoption of aspects of Hindu custom goes much beyond Diwali and weddings. Monotheistic Islam prohibits idol worshipping but many Muslim artisans ply a trade that goes against this — they carve beautiful idols of Ram, Krishna, Durga and Ganesh. Some Muslims find nothing unusual in playing characters in Ramleela and Krishnaleela. Clothes and ornamentation are another indicator of shared practice across religions. The more conservative Muslim may advocate purdah, but many Indian Muslim women customarily wear saris, apply sindoor if they are married, their wrists heavy with bangles. For Muslim men, especially in the hinterland, dhoti-kurta rather than pyjama-kurta, is the preferred costume. With Hindu customs and traditions so much a part of life for some Muslim communities, amazing examples of syncreticism crop up every day. Just last week senior Congress leaders Digvijay Singh and Ghulam Nabi Azad inaugurated a multi-specialty hospital in Mumbai. It is owned by former Congress MLC and businessman Muzaffar Hussain. The programme began with a group of sari-clad Hindu nurses, singing a Sanskrit song to welcome guests. No one objected. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/special-report/Here-in-India-welcoming-Lakshmi-with-Bismillah/articleshow/6882027.cms From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 09:58:04 2010 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:58:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=91CRZ_norms_should_not_violate_St?= =?windows-1252?q?ate=27s_rights=27?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ‘CRZ norms should not violate State's rights' http://www.thehindu.com/2010/11/07/stories/2010110760790300.htm Staff Reporter KOCHI: Minister for Fisheries S. Sarma said here that the new Coastal Regulation Zone (CRZ) norms prescribed by the Union government should not violate the State's rights and that the Union government should discuss with the stakeholders all the issues involved before these recommendations are made into a law. The Minister raised this demand at a meeting of the leaders of the fishermen's unions held at the Government Guest House here on Saturday, said a press release here. The Minister also said that a Cabinet meeting on November 10 will discuss all issues related to the CRZ norms, which will affect the State as a whole and fishermen in particular, and submit a report to the Union government. The Minister said that no special economic zones should be allowed within the areas that come under Coatal Regulation Zone. The Minister said that areas within 12 nautical miles off the coast, which come under the State's rights, should not be brought under CRZ. Bringing this under CRZ would be a breach of the rights of the State under the Constitution. http://www.thehindu.com/2010/11/08/stories/2010110854980300.htm Fishermen reject draft CRZ notification Staff Reporter Say it does not protect their right to habitat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KSMTF apprises Union Minister of its stand ‘Conservation of eco-system inadequate' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KOLLAM: The Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has written to Union Minister for Environment and Forests Jairam Ramesh stating that the fishing community in the State totally rejected the Coastal Regulation Zone Notification 2010. The letter was sent to the Union Minister on November 5. T. Peter, KSMTF State president, said the notification was rejected primarily on grounds that it did not protect “the inalienable rights of the fishing communities to their habitats and did not offer adequate protection to the coastal eco-system.” He said while the fishing communities had sought their rights to the coast, the notification gave only some concessions. They had not sought concessions, but their right to have settlements on the coast. The letter said up to 50 metres from the high tide level (HTL) of the CRZ area should be kept free of non-fishery activities. Houses of fishermen within that zone can be rehabilitated within the 50-metre to 500-metre zone. All existing houses of the fishing community within that zone should be regularised. The letter alleged that the notification violated the fundamental principles of coastal protection. There was no logic in permitting activities such as large housing projects, greenfield airports and power plants on the narrow 500-metre strip from the HTL in the CRZ area. In fact, the notification would only serve to displace the fishing communities from the CRZ areas. Activities that require waterfront and foreshore facilities can destroy the coast over time through cumulative impacts, Mr. Peter said in the letter. He said the special dispensation for Kerala in the notification was essentially to reduce the CRZ from 100 metres to 50 metres for the backwater islands. While this provision outwardly appeared to be one that facilitated the construction of houses for the local communities, it could also facilitate other construction activities for commercial purposes and in the process throw out the fishing communities. Therefore, the dispensation should be limited only to the local fishing communities. The letter stated that the fishing community was not in favour of the “integrated management plans” to govern critically vulnerable coastal areas. The KMSTF called for a draft Bill on the CRZ that protected the traditional rights and interests of the fishing community and also the coastal environment. http://www.keralafishworkers.in http://www.alakal.net From kaksanjay at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 10:19:47 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 10:19:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: Apologies for asking a trivial question: What is a "Kashmiri" newspaper? The Daily Excelsior is an English language newspaper. It comes out of Jammu. It certainly does not have a pro-Kashmir (leave alone a pro-movement) profile. If anything, it is seen as holding the opposite position. And a less trivial one: has this story been reported by the other papers, "Kashmiri", "Indian", whatever? Best Sanjay Kak On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Samvit wrote: > Dear Inder Tikoo ji, > Please read this article. It comes from a Kashmiri newspaper and it > shows how the aazadi mongers are beating up innocent NGOs who want an > end to this Geelani sponsored violence. They even burnt a white flag > which symbolizes peace. The reality is that truth us being muffled by > people like Geelani, Roy and Navlakha. If Geelani does not encourage > killings he will be targeted by the ISI and if Arundhati and Navlakha > don't encourage the Aazadi mongers then their very existence is at > stake. > regards, > -SR > > http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/10nov08/news.htm#2 > > People protest against strikes leads to clashes > > Excelsior Correspondent > > SRINAGAR, Nov 7: Fed up with frequent strikes and stone-pelting > incidents, over 100 activists belonging to several NGOs today staged a > peace rally against shutdowns in the Valley even as hardline Hurriyat > Conference led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani eased the protest calendar for > next 12 days, calling for only three days of strike. > > In a related development, the hand cart vendors also defied the call > for observing strike on the visit of US President Barack Obama to > India as hundreds of roadside vendors decided to set up their stalls. > > The activists of Jammu and Kashmir NGO Forum, a conglomerate of > several NGOs, assembled at TRC ground this morning and carried out a > TATA Sumo rally from TRC crossing to Ghanta Ghar at Lal Chowk. They > were carrying banners and placards which highlighted the ill effects > of the strikes on the economy of Kashmir valley over the past five > months. > > Bashir Ahmad, who was leading the protests, said they were > demonstrating against loss of Rs 27000 crores, which has affected all > sections of the society as a result of four months continuous hartal. > > While the economy of Kashmir has been shattered, it has also severely > jeopardised the future of young Kashmiris who are not able to get free > access to education, he said. > > "Today the competition demands knowledge and everything else has > become subservient to education. How will our children compete with > their counterparts in rest of world when they are not able to go to > schools?" he asked. > > However, the peace protestors had to flee from Lal Chowk as a group of > youth confronted them. "Who is committing injustice ... those who kill > people or those who call for protests against the killings?" asked an > angry youth. > > An altercation ensued in which Bashir Ahmad, despite heavy presence of > police, was roughed up and injured by the mob. > > One of the peace protestors had hoisted a white flag on top of Ghanta > Ghar, which was damaged during violent protests on Eidul Fitr day on > September 11. However, the flag was taken down by a youth and set > ablaze. > > Police had to fire tear smoke shells and use batons to chase away the > mob in Lal Chowk, leading to stone-pelting in nearby Kokerbazaar, > Court Road and Maisuma localities. > > Normalcy was restored within an hour as additional policemen were > rushed to the spot for maintaining law and order. > > This was second protest held against the strikes in the Valley as > political activist Farooq Ganderbali had organised a similar protest > at Residency Road on September 1. He was also beaten up by a mob that > day. > > Reacting to the protest rally, a senior Hurriyat leader said it was > orchestrated by ruling National Conference to defame the ongoing > "freedom struggle" > > Acting general secretary of the Hurriyat led by Geelani warned the > National Conference workers to desist from such acts to sabotage the > "people's movement" and urged people to follow the protest calendars. > > However, Geelani himself softened the stand later in the day by > allowing nine normal days from November 9 to 20 while issuing a 12-day > protest calendar. > > This is for the first time that people of Valley will get such a long > reprieve from the strikes and protests. Geelani has called for strikes > and protests on Nov 11, 13 and 15. > > The first act of defiance came from the roadside vendors, who set > their stalls at Sunday Market, as they did not pay heed to Geelani's > call for observing 'civil curfew' in connection with Obama visit. > > Hundreds of stalls were erected early in the morning as the vendors > hoped to make up for some of the losses suffered over the past five > months. > > Initially, there were only few customers at their stalls but as the > day progressed, the vendors did brisk sales. > > On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> Inder Tikoo sahab, >> >> 100% members don't want you on Sarai list. Do you need helping hand to leave >> now or would you volunteer? I won't give you even that 0.001%. No Communal >> rhetoric. >> >> love >> >> Aditya Raj Kaul (One among lacs of J&K Citizens who are proud to be Indian) >> >> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Aditya Raj Baul wrote: >> >>> did the survey find 'any' majority for Indian rule? >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> > >>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>> > 4fA >>> > >>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>> > >>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>> unrest >>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>> > >>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >>> found >>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>> > >>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >>> in >>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>> belong >>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>> > >>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, >>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>> > >>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>> > >>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >>> they >>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >>> source >>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>> > >>> > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> > >>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of >>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>> > >>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >>> a >>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 11:01:08 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:01:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiris protest against Separatists in Srinagar Message-ID: *This ANI-REUTERS report is for those few who without any ground question the credibility of decades old J&K newspapers. They earn their living out of rhetoric and rant in the name of 'freedom of speech'. Kashmiris protest against shutdown calls of separatists in ValleyLink - http://sify.com/news/kashmiris-protest-against-shutdown-calls-of-separatists-in-valley-news-national-klhvEciejad.html ANI - REUTERS * A large number of local residents in Srinagar took to streets in protest of frequent shutdown calls given by the separatists and curfew restrictions imposed by the administration over the past four months. The Valley has been intermittently under curfew, strikes, protest for months, claiming more than 100 lives in the clash between security forces and stone pelters. The slogans-shouting protester said that their lives have been thrown out of the gear due to disturbances. In particular, they mentioned the daily wage earners have been the worst hit. "The normal lives of the people have been hit badly. The present situation has ruined our lives. This curfew has disturbed our lives. People have committing crimes by calling for strikes and clashes. We are unable to work. We want to lead a peaceful life," said Shabir Ahmad, a local. The protestors also slammed separatist outfit Hurriyat Conference and its leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani for his failure to resolve the Kashmir issue with a pragmatic approach. "We want to tell them (Hurriyat), especially Geelani, why are poor people suffering? Why they don't come on streets as we have come? Why they don't want to solve the Kashmir dispute?" said Shabnum, another local. (ANI) * * From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 11:03:13 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:03:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Vendors_defy_Geelani=92s_three-day?= =?windows-1252?q?_strike_call?= Message-ID: *Vendors defy Geelani’s three-day strike call* *Link - http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_vendors-defy-geelani-s-three-day-strike-call_1463616 DNA* Hundreds of roadside vendors on Sunday defied hardline Hurriyat Conference leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani’s announcement to observe a civilian curfew. Geelani announced the three-day civilian curfew coinciding with Barack Obama’s visit but the vendors decided to defy the diktat and put out their merchandise for sale at Srinagar’s flea market. “We have seen enough of strikes and curfews in the past four months and we want to feed our families now. We cannot go on forever like this,” a vendor, who identified himself only as Khalid, said. Khalid said he wanted resolution the Kashmir issue but not by forcing his family to starvation. “There has to be a strategy... any movement that forces the poor into further poverty cannot sustain for too long,” he said. The sentiments were echoed by many of Khalid’s fellow traders at the Sunday market, but would not speak on record for fear of reprisal from separatist elements. From samvitr at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 11:19:10 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:19:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> Message-ID: Sanjay, I do not think we are taking a test in the Queen's language and neither is this the forum to test people's proficiency in the language. I do not belong to the nouveau riche, I have studied in a municipality school so please accept my apologies that I could not scale up to your level of grammar. Second point, what if the newspaper comes out of Jammu. I thought Jammu and Kashmir were one state. Well, that is what they taught at the Sarkari school. If "other" newspapers do not report this story does this mean that this story has no merit. The Daily Exvcelsior is one of the oldest english newspaper in J&K. The other being Kashmir Times. Anyways, people who are on the payrolls of the secessionist forces do not want Kashmir to stay with India because they have their pay packets to lose. FYI, here is a link of two aborigine newspaper- Kashmir Observor and Rising Kashmir that has detailed the same news. Will you accept the truth now??? http://www.kashmirobserver.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6166:peace-rally-broken-up-by-youth-in-lal-chowk-&catid=2:local-news&Itemid=3 http://www.risingkashmir.com/news/peace-march-in-lal-chowk-3307.aspx Well, I do not have a psychedelic way of looking at news reports like you have so perhaps I do not see the angle. These newspaper stories prove that the cronies of aazadi who send their kids to schools in the US, UK and Malaysia encourage other people's children to throw stones and get killed. They snatch away the right of an average kid to continues his/her education. Regards, -SR On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > Apologies for asking a trivial question: > > What is a "Kashmiri" newspaper? > The Daily Excelsior is an English language newspaper. > It comes out of Jammu. > It certainly does not have a pro-Kashmir (leave alone a pro-movement) profile. > If anything, it is seen as holding the opposite position. > > And a less trivial one: > has this story been reported by the other papers, "Kashmiri", > "Indian", whatever? > > Best > > Sanjay Kak > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Samvit wrote: >> Dear Inder Tikoo ji, >> Please read this article. It comes from a Kashmiri newspaper and it >> shows how the aazadi mongers are beating up innocent NGOs who want an >> end to this Geelani sponsored violence. They even burnt a white flag >> which symbolizes peace. The reality is that truth us being muffled by >> people like Geelani, Roy and Navlakha. If Geelani does not encourage >> killings he will be targeted by the ISI and if Arundhati and Navlakha >> don't encourage the Aazadi mongers then their very existence is at >> stake. >> regards, >> -SR >> >> http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/10nov08/news.htm#2 >> >> People protest against strikes leads to clashes >> >> Excelsior Correspondent >> >> SRINAGAR, Nov 7: Fed up with frequent strikes and stone-pelting >> incidents, over 100 activists belonging to several NGOs today staged a >> peace rally against shutdowns in the Valley even as hardline Hurriyat >> Conference led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani eased the protest calendar for >> next 12 days, calling for only three days of strike. >> >> In a related development, the hand cart vendors also defied the call >> for observing strike on the visit of US President Barack Obama to >> India as hundreds of roadside vendors decided to set up their stalls. >> >> The activists of Jammu and Kashmir NGO Forum, a conglomerate of >> several NGOs, assembled at TRC ground this morning and carried out a >> TATA Sumo rally from TRC crossing to Ghanta Ghar at Lal Chowk. They >> were carrying banners and placards which highlighted the ill effects >> of the strikes on the economy of Kashmir valley over the past five >> months. >> >> Bashir Ahmad, who was leading the protests, said they were >> demonstrating against loss of Rs 27000 crores, which has affected all >> sections of the society as a result of four months continuous hartal. >> >> While the economy of Kashmir has been shattered, it has also severely >> jeopardised the future of young Kashmiris who are not able to get free >> access to education, he said. >> >> "Today the competition demands knowledge and everything else has >> become subservient to education. How will our children compete with >> their counterparts in rest of world when they are not able to go to >> schools?" he asked. >> >> However, the peace protestors had to flee from Lal Chowk as a group of >> youth confronted them. "Who is committing injustice ... those who kill >> people or those who call for protests against the killings?" asked an >> angry youth. >> >> An altercation ensued in which Bashir Ahmad, despite heavy presence of >> police, was roughed up and injured by the mob. >> >> One of the peace protestors had hoisted a white flag on top of Ghanta >> Ghar, which was damaged during violent protests on Eidul Fitr day on >> September 11. However, the flag was taken down by a youth and set >> ablaze. >> >> Police had to fire tear smoke shells and use batons to chase away the >> mob in Lal Chowk, leading to stone-pelting in nearby Kokerbazaar, >> Court Road and Maisuma localities. >> >> Normalcy was restored within an hour as additional policemen were >> rushed to the spot for maintaining law and order. >> >> This was second protest held against the strikes in the Valley as >> political activist Farooq Ganderbali had organised a similar protest >> at Residency Road on September 1. He was also beaten up by a mob that >> day. >> >> Reacting to the protest rally, a senior Hurriyat leader said it was >> orchestrated by ruling National Conference to defame the ongoing >> "freedom struggle" >> >> Acting general secretary of the Hurriyat led by Geelani warned the >> National Conference workers to desist from such acts to sabotage the >> "people's movement" and urged people to follow the protest calendars. >> >> However, Geelani himself softened the stand later in the day by >> allowing nine normal days from November 9 to 20 while issuing a 12-day >> protest calendar. >> >> This is for the first time that people of Valley will get such a long >> reprieve from the strikes and protests. Geelani has called for strikes >> and protests on Nov 11, 13 and 15. >> >> The first act of defiance came from the roadside vendors, who set >> their stalls at Sunday Market, as they did not pay heed to Geelani's >> call for observing 'civil curfew' in connection with Obama visit. >> >> Hundreds of stalls were erected early in the morning as the vendors >> hoped to make up for some of the losses suffered over the past five >> months. >> >> Initially, there were only few customers at their stalls but as the >> day progressed, the vendors did brisk sales. >> >> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>> Inder Tikoo sahab, >>> >>> 100% members don't want you on Sarai list. Do you need helping hand to leave >>> now or would you volunteer? I won't give you even that 0.001%. No Communal >>> rhetoric. >>> >>> love >>> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul (One among lacs of J&K Citizens who are proud to be Indian) >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Aditya Raj Baul wrote: >>> >>>> did the survey find 'any' majority for Indian rule? >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>>> > >>>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>>> > 4fA >>>> > >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>>> > >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>>> unrest >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>>> > >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey >>>> found >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>>> > >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent >>>> in >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>>> belong >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>>> > >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey, >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>>> > >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>>> > >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how >>>> they >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant >>>> source >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>>> > >>>> > In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>>> > >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent. >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>>> > >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but >>>> a >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>>> > >>>> > _________________________________________ >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From samvitr at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 11:27:30 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:27:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=91CRZ_norms_should_not_violate_St?= =?windows-1252?q?ate=27s_rights=27?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Peter, In India it is very sad that marine life and the fragile marine eco-system is not given much importance. It seems we are too obsessed with the tiger. I know some friends who have been pushing the Goa government to remove the River Princess from the Candolim beach. The ship belongs to a prominent business house and has been stuck near the beach for many years. This has played havoc with the eco-system of Candolim. Half of the ship has rusted and fallen apart. This has killed much of the fish near that place. Also, it has hurt many a swimmers and locals of the Candolim area. I suggest that you study the River Pricess story, it is a classic case of passing the buck from one agency to another. -Samvit Rawal On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 9:58 AM, T Peter wrote: > ‘CRZ norms should not violate State's rights' > > http://www.thehindu.com/2010/11/07/stories/2010110760790300.htm > > Staff Reporter > > KOCHI: Minister for Fisheries S. Sarma said here that the new Coastal > Regulation Zone (CRZ) norms prescribed by the Union government should > not violate the State's rights and that the Union government should > discuss with the stakeholders all the issues involved before these > recommendations are made into a law. The Minister raised this demand > at a meeting of the leaders of the fishermen's unions held at the > Government Guest House here on Saturday, said a press release here. > > The Minister also said that a Cabinet meeting on November 10 will > discuss all issues related to the CRZ norms, which will affect the > State as a whole and fishermen in particular, and submit a report to > the Union government. > > The Minister said that no special economic zones should be allowed > within the areas that come under Coatal Regulation Zone. > > The Minister said that areas within 12 nautical miles off the coast, > which come under the State's rights, should not be brought under CRZ. > Bringing this under CRZ would be a breach of the rights of the State > under the Constitution. > > http://www.thehindu.com/2010/11/08/stories/2010110854980300.htm > Fishermen reject draft CRZ notification > > Staff Reporter > Say it does not protect their right to habitat > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > KSMTF apprises Union Minister of its stand > > ‘Conservation of eco-system inadequate' > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > KOLLAM: The Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has > written to Union Minister for Environment and Forests Jairam Ramesh > stating that the fishing community in the State totally rejected the > Coastal Regulation Zone Notification 2010. The letter was sent to the > Union Minister on November 5. > > T. Peter, KSMTF State president, said the notification was rejected > primarily on grounds that it did not protect “the inalienable rights > of the fishing communities to their habitats and did not offer > adequate protection to the coastal eco-system.” He said while the > fishing communities had sought their rights to the coast, the > notification gave only some concessions. They had not sought > concessions, but their right to have settlements on the coast. > > The letter said up to 50 metres from the high tide level (HTL) of the > CRZ area should be kept free of non-fishery activities. Houses of > fishermen within that zone can be rehabilitated within the 50-metre to > 500-metre zone. All existing houses of the fishing community within > that zone should be regularised. > > The letter alleged that the notification violated the fundamental > principles of coastal protection. There was no logic in permitting > activities such as large housing projects, greenfield airports and > power plants on the narrow 500-metre strip from the HTL in the CRZ > area. In fact, the notification would only serve to displace the > fishing communities from the CRZ areas. Activities that require > waterfront and foreshore facilities can destroy the coast over time > through cumulative impacts, Mr. Peter said in the letter. > > He said the special dispensation for Kerala in the notification was > essentially to reduce the CRZ from 100 metres to 50 metres for the > backwater islands. While this provision outwardly appeared to be one > that facilitated the construction of houses for the local communities, > it could also facilitate other construction activities for commercial > purposes and in the process throw out the fishing communities. > Therefore, the dispensation should be limited only to the local > fishing communities. > > The letter stated that the fishing community was not in favour of the > “integrated management plans” to govern critically vulnerable coastal > areas. > > The KMSTF called for a draft Bill on the CRZ that protected the > traditional rights and interests of the fishing community and also the > coastal environment. > > http://www.keralafishworkers.in > http://www.alakal.net > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 13:03:35 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 23:33:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Closet histories of Pandit/Brahman Suffering in Kashmir. Message-ID: <288238.77719.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Histories in private circulation that do not get debated in public multi-ethnic or academic forums but play a great role in sustaining the hate. This might help understand the narrative of persecution and hate on which some of the people in this forum have been raised. Wailing Kashmir: SEVEN MIGRATIONS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS [Dr Satish Ganjoo] [For detailed study: HINDUS AND HINDUISM IN KASHMIR – A SAGA OF DEATH, CONVERSION & EXILE; Crisis in History: DEATH OF A CIVILIZATION; ABANDONED: Legendary Kashmiri Pandits; A HISTORY OF KASHMIRI PANDIT GENOCIDE; A History of the Kashmiri Pandit Race; SATANIC HOLOCAUST OF KASHMIRI PANDITS; and, Kashmiri Pandits: A FORBIDDEN COMMUNITY – Dr Satish Ganjoo] Since the advent of Muslim rule in Kashmir [ AD 1339], the legendary Kashmiri Pandits have suffered SEVEN TRAGIC MIGRATIONS so far. The seventh and last one was in 1989-90. A brief description of all the seven migrations is given below: First Migration: In AD 1339, after defeating Kota Rain by a foul strategem and procuring her death, Shahmir ascended the throne of Kashmir under the name of Sultan Shamas-ud-Din (The Light of the Religion - Islam). He got khutaba read and the coins struck to his name. Islam became the court religion. Shahmir became the legitimate author and architect of Muslim rule in Kashmir. With the establishment of the new regime Muslim missionaries, preachers, sayyids and saints penetrated into the Valley. Sayyid Jalal-ud-Din, Sayyid Taj-ud-Din, Sayyid Hussain Simnani, Sayyid Masud and Sayyid Yusuf came to Kashmir to avoid the intended massacre by Timur. Mir Sayyid Ali Hamadani (Shah Hamadan) entered Kashmir with 700 sayyids; and, his son, Mir Muhammad Hamadani, with 300 more. They endured in the Valley under royal protection and disseminated the message of Islam. Mir Sayyid Ali Hamadani (AD 1314-AD 1385) wrote in “ Zakhirat’ul Maluk ” : 1. Muslim ruler shall not allow fresh constructions of Hindu temples and shrines for image worship. 2. No repair shall be executed to the existing Hindu temples and shrines. 3. They shall not proffer Muslim names. 4. They shall not ride a harnessed horse. 5. They shall not move about with arms. 6. They shall not wear rings with diamonds. 7. They shall not deal in or eat bacon. 8. They shall not exhibit idolatrous images. 9. They shall not built houses in the neighbourhood of Muslims. 10. They shall not dispose of their dead in the neighbourhood of Muslim graveyards, nor weep or wail over their dead. 11. They shall not deal in or buy Muslim slaves. 12. No Muslim traveller shall be refused lodging in the Hindu temples and shrines where he shall be treated as a guest for three days by non-Muslims. 13. No non-Muslim shall act as a spy in the Muslim state. 14. No problem shall be created for those non-Muslims who, of their own will, show their readiness for Islam. 15. Non-Muslims shall honour Muslims and shall leave their assembly whenever the Muslims enter the premises. 16. The dress of non-Muslims shall be different from that of Muslims to distinguish themselves. This naturally caused animosity among the Brahmans and resulted in frail rebellion during the reign of Shihab-ud-Din (AD 1354-1373). In order to break the upheaval among the Hindus and to make them prostrate, the Sultan turned his attention towards their temples. All the temples in Srinagar, including the one at Bijbehara, were wrecked to terrorize the poor Kashmiri Pandits. It seems that by this time, the sultans of Kashmir were perfectly islamized as a result of their contacts, interactions and intercourses with the sayyids. These sayyids came here as absconders in search of safe harbours, but manoeuvered the events for their own cause and fanatic iconoclastic zeal. The Hindus began to feel deserted and alienated in their own land. To consolidate their rule, sultans institutionalized the “policy of extermination” to eradicate all traces of Hinduism in any form. However, the Kashmiri Pandits stuck to their own religion and traditions, ignoring the atrocities, barbarism and cruelties of the privileged ruling class. But there were many from other castes who, either by conviction or in order to gain royal favour, embraced Islam. These new converts were looked down upon by the Kashmiri Pandits as traitorous and treacherous, with no loyalty for time-honored values. This gave rise to a new class rivalry. Suha Bhatt, who after embracing Islam took the name of Saif-ud-Din, became the leader of the fresh converts during the reign of Sikandar (AD 1389-1413). Sikandar- the Butshikan, was bigoted with fanatic religious zeal to spread Islam in the entire Valley. This fanaticism was stimulated by Mir Muhammad Hamadani. Suha Bhatt - the convert, was appointed Prime Minister by Sikandar and both hatched a deadly conspiracy to persecute the Hindus and enforce upon the Nizam-i-Mustaffa. Jonaraja says, “ The Sultan forgot his kingly duties and took delight day and night in breaking images … He broke images of Martanda, Vishaya, Ishana, Chakrabrit and Tripureshvara …… There was no city, no town, no village, no wood where Turushka left the temples of the gods unbroken.” According to Hassan (History of Kashmir), “ This country possessed from the times of Hindu rajas many temples which were like the wonders of the world. Their workmanship was so fine and delicate that one found himself bewildered at their sight. Sikandar, goaded by feelings of bigotry, destroyed them and levelled them with the earth and with the material built many mosques and khanqahs. In the first instance he turned his attention towards the great Martand temple built by Ramdev (the temple was rebuilt by King Lalitaditya, AD 724-760) on Mattan Kareva. For one year he tried to demolish it, but failed. At last in sheer dismay, he dug out stones from its base and having stored enough wood in their place, set fire to it. The gold gilt paintings on its walls were totally destroyed and the walls surrounding its premises were demolished. Its ruins even now strike wonder in men’s minds. At Bijbehara, three hundred temples including the famous Vijiveshwara temple, which was partly damaged by Shihab-ud-Din, were destroyed. With the material of Vijiveshwara temple, a mosque was built and on its site a khanqah, which is even now known as Vijiveshwara Khanqah.” The stones and bricks which once configurated a marvelous and splendid temple or monastery, now hold up mosques. Hassan further adds, “ Sikandar meted out greatest oppression to the Hindus. It was notified in the Valley that if a Hindu does not become a Muslim, he must leave the country or be killed. As a result some of the Hindus fled away, some accepted Islam and many Brahmans consented to be killed and gave their lives. It is said that Sikandar collected, by these methods, six maunds of sacred thread form Hindu converts and burnt them. Mir Muhammad Hamadani, who was a witness of all this vicious brutality, barbarism and vandalism, at last advised him to desist from the slaughter of Brahmans and told him to impose jazia (religious tax) instead of death upon them. All the Hindu books of learning were collected and thrown into Dal Lake and were buried beneath stones and earth.” Sikandar issued orders that no man should wear the tilak mark on his forehead and no woman be allowed to perform sati. He also insisted on breaking and melting of all the gold and silver idols of gods and coin the metal into money. An attempt was made to destroy the caste of the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans by force and those who resisted were subject to heavy fines. Farishta says, “ Many of the Brahmans, rather than abandon their religion or their county, poisoned themselves; some emigrated from their native homes, while a few escaped the evil of banishment by becoming Muhammedans”. To strictly enforce the Nizam-i-Mustaffa, Sikandar established the office of Shaikh-ul-Islam. According to W.R. Lawrence, the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir were given three choices-death, conversion or exile. “Many fled, many were converted and many were killed, and it is said that this thorough monarch (Sikandar) burnt seven maunds of sacred threads of the murdered Brahmans”. As for the statements of Hassan and Lawrence, six maunds of sacred threads of converts and seven maunds of murdered Pandits were burnt. The number of people, to whom these thirteen maunds of sacred threads belonged, might have been tremendously colossal. A mammoth number of the Saraswat Pandits also went into exile, causing the first disastrous mass exodus of the community. 2. Second Migration: Ali Shah - the tyrant (AD 1413-1430), son of Sikandar- the Butshikan, during his short rule of six years, carried on his father’s 24-year tyrant reign with homicides, conversions, tyranny and enforced jazia. Suha Bhatta – the convert, who retained the prime ministership continued his earlier crimes and atrocities against the Kashmiri Pandits. Jonaraja gives a graphic account of the plight of the illustrious Kashmiri Pandits in the draconian reign of Ali Shah. He says,” Suha Bhatta- the convert, passed the limit by levying fine, jazia, on the twice - born. This evil-minded man forbade ceremonies and processions on the new moon. He became envious that the Brahmans who had become fearless would keep up their caste by going over to foreign countries, he therefore ordered posting of squads on the roads, not to allow passage to any one without a passport. Then as the fisherman torments fish, so this low born man tormented the twice-born in this country. The legendary Brahmans burnt themselves in the flaming fire through fear of conversion. Some Brahmans killed themselves by taking poison, some by the rope and others by drowning themselves. Others again by falling from a precipice. The country was contaminated by hatred and the king’s favourites could not prevent one in a thousand from committing suicide …. A multitude of celebrated Brahmans, who prided in their caste, fled from the country through bye-roads as the main roads were closed. Even as men depart from this world, so did the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir flee to foreign countries. The difficult countries through which they passed, the scanty food, painful illness and the torments of hell during life time removed from the minds of the Kashmiri Pandits the fears of hell. Oppressed by various calamities such as encounter with the enemy, fear of snakes, fierce heat and scanty food; many Brahmans perished on the way and thus obtained salvation.” This was the second miserable mass exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits. Jonaraja calls it “ Chandh-Dandh” - violent, cruel, brutal and horrible punishment, for the abandoned and vulnerable Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. History repeated itself again in AD 1989-1990. 3. Third Migration: Mir Shams-ud-Din Iraqi, who visited the Saffron Valley twice in AD 1477 and 1496, was the founder of Nurbakhshiya order (Shia sect) in Kashmir. His mission was the vigorous propagation of his faith. So, not contented with peaceful preachings, violent methods were employed. In this adventure , Iraqi was helped by the homicidal creature and most dreaded tyrant- Malik Musa Raina, a convertee, whose original name was Soma Chandra. Not only the poor vulnerable Brahmans, but the Sunni Muslims were also violently converted to Shia sect by murderous techniques. This dogmatic fanaticism even crippled the Sunni ruler of Kashmir, Fateh Shah (AD 1510-1517). A khanqah was built at Zadibal (Srinagar) by Iraqi, which became the nucleus of Shia concentration. Kashmiri Pandits suffered ferociously under the instructions of Shams-ud-Din Iraqi and Musa Raina. About 24,000 of them were forcibly converted to Shia sect of Islam. Iraqi had even issued orders that everyday about 1500 to 2000 Brahmans be brought to his doorsteps, remove their sacred threads, administer Kalima to them, circumcise them and make them eat beef. These decrees were ferociously and brutally carried out. The Hindu religious scriptures from 7th century AD onwards and about 18 magnificent temples were destroyed, property confiscated and ladies abused. Thousands of Brahmans killed themselves to evade this horrific barbarism and thousands migrated to other places, resulting in their third tragic mass exodus from the Saffron Valley of Kashmir. Those who stayed behind were not only forced to pay jazia, but their noses and ears were chopped off. To escape the tremendous pain and agony, they cried. “I am not a Hindu.” 4. Fourth Migration: The greatness of Akbar lies in his magnificent and fascinating policy of religious tolerance. Jahangir and Shah Jahan were not so tolerant. But their religious enthusiasm cannot be termed as fanatic. During this period, the Brahmans could perform their religious ceremonies after paying some tribute. But the whole scenario changed with the accession of Aurangzeb to the throne. With his bigoted fanatic and dogmatic approach, the Kashmiri Pandits were once again made vulnerable. Iftkar Khan, the Mughal governor of Kashmir during the reign of Aurangzeb, brutally tyrannized over the Brahmans to such an extent that they approached Guru Teg Bhahadur, the ninth Sikh Guru, at Anandpur in Punjab and solicited his personal intervention with the Emperor. This ultimately led to the Guru’s martyrdom and made Guru Gobid Singh to create the Khalsa to fight the oppressors . Muzaffer Khan, Nassar Khan and Ibrahim Khan were other governors of Aurangzeb who ferociously terrorized the Kashmiri Pandits. These celebrated scapegoats were once again forced to migrate from the land of their origin. It was the fourth disastrous mass exodus of the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans from Kashmir. 5. Fifth Migration: During the rule of later Mughals, Kashmir witnessed the outbreak of the worst kind of religious intolerance. In AD 1720, Mullah Abdul Nabi, also called Muhat Khan, a non-resident Kashmiri Muslim, was appointed as Shaikhul Islam . In order to assert his religious authority, he asked the Deputy Governor, Mir Ahmed Khan , to start a campaign of persecution of the Kafirs (infidels) - as the Kashmiri Pandits were called. In order to satisfy his satanic ego, the Mulla issued six commandments: 1. No Hindu should ride a horse, nor should a Hindu wear a shoe; 2. That they should not wear Jama (Mughal costume); 3. That they should move bare arms; 4. That they should not visit any garden; 5. That they should not have tilak mark on their foreheads; 6. That their children should not receive any education. But Ahmed Khan refused to execute the mischievous decree. The Mullah then excited his followers against the Kashmiri Pandits. He established his seat in a mosque, assumed the duties of the administrator under the title of Dindar Khan and let loose the reign of terror. The Hindus were wickedly tormented, their houses burnt and property looted. Hundreds of Brahmans were killed, prostrated, maimed and humiliated. They began to run away in large numbers and hide themselves in mountainous terrain. This was the fifth dreadful mass exodus of the legendary Kashmiri Pandits from their mystic motherland. Those who remained behind lived in the most horrific and terrible conditions generated by the Mullah and his gang. 6. Sixth Migration: The Afghan rule in Kashmir (AD 1753-1819) was a period of cruelty, homicide and anarchy. W.R. Lawrence calls it the “reign of brutal tyranny.” The barbarous Afghans employed every wild, inhuman, primitive, ferocious, cruel and brutal method to suppress the Kashmiri Brahmans. A pitcher filled with ordure was placed on the head of a Pandit and stones were pelt on it, till it broke and the unfortunate Brahman become wet with filth. Their brutality and atrocity crossed the extreme limits when Hindus were tied up in grass sacks, two and two, and drowned in the Dal Lake. The victimized Hindu were forced to flee the country or were killed or converted to Islam. There was horrible mass exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits, sixth one, to far away places like Delhi, Allahabad, etc. Many covered the long distances on foot. Hindu parents destroyed the beauty of their daughters by shaving their heads or cutting their noses and ears to save them from degradation. Any Muslim could jump on the back of a Pandit and take a ride. Mir Hazar - an Afghan governor, used leather bags instead of grass sacks for the drowning of Brahmans. Turbans and shoes were forbidden for them. The Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir were also forced to grow beards and tilak was interdicted. The Afghans are now only remembered for their barbarity, brutality, ferocity, tyranny and cruelty. They thought no more of cutting of heads than of plucking a flower. 7. Seventh Migration: With the formation of Jammu and Kashmir State; and, establishment of the Dogra rule in 1846, Kashmiri Pandits were imperceptibly elbowed to the background. Administrators and officials were deputed from Jammu region. Though they enjoyed comprehensive religious freedom and social emancipation, political rights of the Kashmiri Brahmans were confined. On certain occasions, they even became victims of intrigue and suspicions. The vicious communal forces also turned their wrath against them. During the communal disturbances of July 1931, shops and houses belonging to the Kashmiri Brahmans were not only looted but also burnt. Three innocent Hindus lost their lives. This communalism in the state politics aggravated and magnified with the passage of time . It was fed for years with vicious communal propaganda and brainwashing. After independence and accession of Jammu & Kashmir state to India, Kashmiri Pandits were pushed back to the barbarous Afghan era. They were given the sugarcoated dozes of poisonous toxics. Article 370 of Indian constitution just reduced them to cipher and liquidated their population. Under the pretext of economic reforms, their jagirs were confiscated and distributed among the Muslim peasants. The administration of Shaikh Abdullah adopted malicious and pernicious approach towards the Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. They were taunted on one excuse or the other. Hindu temples were desecrated, looted and plundered. Minor girls of the community were forced to embrace Islam and marry the Muslim youth. Shaikh Abdullah tried to create “ Shaikhdom” for his dynastic rule in Kashmir. But his dreams were shattered when he was arrested in 1953 for anti-national activities. In 1958, he was released but detained again after three months under the Kashmir conspiracy case. However, the case was withdrawn in 1964 because of political reasons. But he was arrested again in May 1965 for his subversive activities and released in January 1968. Again, in January 1971, a ban was imposed forbidding him to enter the Jammu Kashmir state. This restriction was lifted in 1972. During 1953-1974 Shaikh Abdullah characterized India as an imperialist power endeavouring to subjugate the people of Kashmir. He asserted that the accession of Kashmir with India was his greatest blunder for which history will never forgive him. He also demanded the right of self determination for the people of Muslim – dominated Kashmir, but ignored the Hindu- dominated Jammu and Buddhist- dominated Ladakh regions. The sophist Shaikh advocated plebiscite and unconditional withdrawal of Indian army from the Saffron Valley. He also campaigned against the import of food grains from India and asked people to eat potatoes grown in Kashmir. For such arguments, Shaikh Abdullah was nick named as “Aaloo Bab” --- Feeder of Potatoes. He made emotional solicitations that after death his body should not be buried in the subjugated Valley, but immersed into the sacred waters of Arabian sea. However, today his magnificent tomb stands on the banks of beautiful Dal Lake in Srinagar and is guarded by the Indian security personnel. By such gratuitous and conflicting statement, his secular credentials evaporated into thin air. The prospect of disloyalty and sedition began to haunt the Saffron Valley. Kashmiriyat switched over to political vandalism and bigoted fundamentalism. Shaikh Abdullah desperately held Indian Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, a Kashmiri Pandit, responsible for the shattering of his malevolent dreams in 1953. The mortified Shaikh ambiguously decided to retaliate against the whole Pandit community in Kashmir. In vindictiveness, he instigated his associated that while making a choice between a Kashmiri Pandit and dreaded cobra, kill the Pandit first. A vicious campaign of terror was launched against the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. They were refused entry to government jobs and institutions of higher learning. Besides hurling strong statement against the Government of India and Kashmiri Pandits, the Shaikh derided that the whole lot of Indian army cannot save the Hindus in Kashmir against the malevolence of Muslims. Farooq Abdullah also employed the same approach towards the crumbled Pandits when his brother-in-law, Gulshah, seized the chief ministership in 1984.The reactionary leaders- Afzal Beg, Maulvi Farooq, Mohi-ud-Din Kara and Maulana Masoodi; ignored the very existence of Kashmiri Pandits during their political adventurism. The Kashmiri Pandits were made to pay for every move on the political chessboard in Kashmir because they represented the pseudo-secularism, incognito- socialism and flowering- democracy of India. They were scolded and emotionally hurt in the Afghan fashion. But then the whole political scenario in Kashmir took a dramatic turn in 1974, when Indira-Shaikh accord was signed by virtue of which the Shaikh became the Chief Minister of the State after the lapse of 22 years. Ignoring the great expectations he had created among the people in Kashmir and his vigorous campaign for plebiscite, the sophist Shaikh began to speak the language of Indian nationalism, democracy, socialism and secularism. The slogans of plebiscite, self-determination and independent Kashmir melted away. But the Hate- India virus, infused by him into the blood of the Muslim youth in Kashmir, was exploited by other corrupt self-styled politicians for their own interests from time to time. A vacuum was created because the people were betrayed disillusioned, politically raped and left in wilderness by their own leaders. The programmes and policies of Bakshi, Sadiq, Qasim, Farooq and Gulshah were also damaging for the Kashmiri Pandits. They were continuously haunted by antagonistic, hostile and rebellious elements. Mufti Syed is even believed to be responsible for the anti-Hindu communal riots of 1986, when cows were slaughtered and temples destroyed in Anantnag district. From 1947-1986 about four lac Kashmiri Pandits silently migrated from Kashmir. Hypocritical atrocities and criminal ignorances of political leaders were responsible for these development. Pakistan, to avenge the defeat of Bangladesh, blatantly sponsored the violence and terrorism in the Valley, resulting in the turmoil of 1989-90. The then governor of Jammu and Kashmir, Jagmohan, wrote a detailed letter to the former Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi , on April 21,1990, endorsing the alarming signals. But cowardly Indian leadership was still unconcerned. “Aay Zalimu, Aay Kafiroo, Kashmir Hamara Choudh Dou” “Bharat Kay Aiwanu Ko Aag Lagado, Aag Lagado” The final assault on the Kashmiri Pandits started with these slogans. Barbarous terrorists from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Sudan and even Saudi Arabia penetrated into the Saffron Valley. Brutal, wild and barbarous techniques were employed to hound and kill the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. Even the helpless ladies were not spared. Sarla Bhat, a nurse in Soura Medical Institute, was abducted on 19th April, 1990, by JKLF militants who repeatedly gang-raped her and eventually killed her on 25th April. Girja Tikoo, a teacher from Bandipur, was kidnapped, raped and eventually shred to pieces by a saw mill on 4th June, 1990. Bimla Braroo from the Nai Sarak, Srinagar, who along with her daughter, Archana, was raped in the presence of her husband, Sohanlal, before all the three were killed on 31st March, 1992. There are dozens of such brutal instances. Even wicked Afghans will be feeling sorry in their graves for the sanatic holocaust of the legendary Kashmiri Pandits. The barbarous murder of hundreds of innocent Brahmans of Kashmir caused their seventh and final agonizing mass exodus from the Valley. This was the final knock down of ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Kashmiri Pandits. The mass massacres at Sangrampora (1997), Udhampore (1997), Prankot (1998), Wandhama (1998) and Nadimarg (2003) were the follow up cleansing operations. Pandits in Kashmir dwindled from 10% in 1947 to fewer than 5% in 1989 and to less than 1% today. The pretended world bodies, contaminated human rights organizations, pseudo-secularists, self-styled leaders, so-called policy makers, tainted political parties and slack bureaucracy have failed to express serious concern at this great human tragedy. DANSE MACABRE is still going on. From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 14:43:57 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 01:13:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia Message-ID: <565294.83902.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> comment made in a facebook group by shantiveer kaul:   " Kashmir has become the whore of academia - subject to merchandizing and ‘intellectual summation-characterization’ of essential reductionists/ fake modernists; Spivak spewing senors and senoras at a safe 'university-funded' distance – recording only the passing of a minor, or the making of a major academic event; who spout Deleuze and Guattari at the drop of a bonnet, deconstruct pointless death into a reading of martyrdom that can be packaged and sold at Oxford if not at Harrods and who co-opt our brightest young minds to become their articled clerks. We live in sad times."   ......... aalok aima From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 15:05:53 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 01:35:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Peace march in Kashmir attacked by stone pelters Message-ID: <134214.76692.qm@web120211.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> how dare anyone, even symbolically, contemplate 'peace' in kashmir   "One of the protestors hoisted a white flag, symbolising peace, atop the Clock Tower, they said." ..................... "An agitated youth also removed the white flag and set it ablaze."   very very interesting, coming as it does after the posters questioning the 'strike-calendars' and articles in newspapers of kashmir doing the same   .............. aalok aima     http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?700266   Anti-Strike Activists Clash with Protesters in Srinagar Srinagar | Nov 07, 2010   Around 100 activists belonging to Jammu and Kashmir NGO Forum today staged a protest rally in Lal Chowk area of Srinagar against the continuous strikes called by separatist groups over the past few months, but their leader was attacked by some youths. Nearly 25 vehicles carrying the protesters, who had come from various parts of the Valley, assembled at Tourist Reception Centre (TRC) ground here, official sources said. Holding placards denouncing the frequent strikes, the car rally then proceeded towards the Clock Tower in Lal Chowk area, the sources said. One of the protesters hoisted a white flag, symbolising peace, atop the Clock Tower, they said. As the organiser of the rally Bashir Ahmad -- formerly associated with a national political party -- was talking to reporters, a group of youths beat him up and forced the anti-strike protesters to flee. Ahmad was bleeding from the mouth before being rescued by police personnel providing security cover to the rally. An agitated youth also removed the white flag and set it ablaze. Police detained the youth who brought down the flag while chasing away his other accomplices. Several groups of people appeared from nearby Kokerbazar, Maisuma and Court road localities and raised slogans and started throwing stones at the police personnel. Police burst teargas shells and used batons to bring the situation under control. This is second protest against the strikes called by hardline Hurriyat Conference led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani since the ongoing unrest began in the valley in June. On September 1, a political activist organised a students' protest rally at Residence Road but had to beat a hasty retreat following opposition from some youths in the area. Earlier in the day, hundreds of roadside vendors defied Geelani's call for a 'civil curfew' as they displayed their merchandise in the popular flea market in Srinagar. Geelani had announced a three-day 'civil curfew' to be observed, beginning with arrival of US President Barack Obama to India yesterday, but the vendors decided to defy it. "We have seen enough of strikes and curfews for the past four months and now we want to feed our families. We cannot go on forever like this," a vendor, who identified himself only as Khalid, told PTI. The sentiments were echoed by many of Khalid's fellow traders at the Sunday market, but they did not speak on record for the fear of reprisal from separatist elements. The defiance of the strike call by vendors comes a week after an unknown group, Jammu and Kashmir Ittehadi Islami, circulated posters in the city asking the Hurriyat Conference to review its strike calendar as it was only harming the economy of the Valley. Kashmir Valley has been in the grip of protests, strikes and curfew since June when a 17-year-old boy was killed by a tear smoke shell allegedly fired by police at Rajouri Kadal area of the city. The hardline Hurriyat Conference, meanwhile, termed the protest as a "drama enacted by the ruling National Conference to mislead the visiting US President Barack Obama about the situation in the Valley". Acting general secretary of the amalgam Nissar Hussain Rather said, "Strikes and and protests are effective means to invite the attention of the world community towards Kashmir issue."   From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 15:09:05 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:09:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Peace march in Kashmir attacked by stone pelters In-Reply-To: <134214.76692.qm@web120211.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <134214.76692.qm@web120211.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hahahahahaha On 11/8/10, Aalok Aima wrote: > how dare anyone, even symbolically, contemplate 'peace' in kashmir > > "One of the protestors hoisted a white flag, symbolising peace, atop the > Clock Tower, they said." ..................... "An agitated youth also > removed the white flag and set it ablaze." > > very very interesting, coming as it does after the posters questioning the > 'strike-calendars' and articles in newspapers of kashmir doing the same > > .............. aalok aima > > > http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?700266 > > Anti-Strike Activists Clash with Protesters in Srinagar > Srinagar | Nov 07, 2010 > > Around 100 activists belonging to Jammu and Kashmir NGO Forum today staged a > protest rally in Lal Chowk area of Srinagar against the continuous strikes > called by separatist groups over the past few months, but their leader was > attacked by some youths. > > Nearly 25 vehicles carrying the protesters, who had come from various parts > of the Valley, assembled at Tourist Reception Centre (TRC) ground here, > official sources said. > > Holding placards denouncing the frequent strikes, the car rally then > proceeded towards the Clock Tower in Lal Chowk area, the sources said. > > One of the protesters hoisted a white flag, symbolising peace, atop the > Clock Tower, they said. > > As the organiser of the rally Bashir Ahmad -- formerly associated with a > national political party -- was talking to reporters, a group of youths beat > him up and forced the anti-strike protesters to flee. > > Ahmad was bleeding from the mouth before being rescued by police personnel > providing security cover to the rally. > > An agitated youth also removed the white flag and set it ablaze. Police > detained the youth who brought down the flag while chasing away his other > accomplices. > > Several groups of people appeared from nearby Kokerbazar, Maisuma and Court > road localities and raised slogans and started throwing stones at the police > personnel. > > Police burst teargas shells and used batons to bring the situation under > control. > > This is second protest against the strikes called by hardline Hurriyat > Conference led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani since the ongoing unrest began in > the valley in June. > > On September 1, a political activist organised a students' protest rally at > Residence Road but had to beat a hasty retreat following opposition from > some youths in the area. > > Earlier in the day, hundreds of roadside vendors defied Geelani's call for a > 'civil curfew' as they displayed their merchandise in the popular flea > market in Srinagar. > > Geelani had announced a three-day 'civil curfew' to be observed, beginning > with arrival of US President Barack Obama to India yesterday, but the > vendors decided to defy it. > > "We have seen enough of strikes and curfews for the past four months and now > we want to feed our families. We cannot go on forever like this," a vendor, > who identified himself only as Khalid, told PTI. > > The sentiments were echoed by many of Khalid's fellow traders at the Sunday > market, but they did not speak on record for the fear of reprisal from > separatist elements. > > The defiance of the strike call by vendors comes a week after an unknown > group, Jammu and Kashmir Ittehadi Islami, circulated posters in the city > asking the Hurriyat Conference to review its strike calendar as it was only > harming the economy of the Valley. > > Kashmir Valley has been in the grip of protests, strikes and curfew since > June when a 17-year-old boy was killed by a tear smoke shell allegedly fired > by police at Rajouri Kadal area of the city. > > The hardline Hurriyat Conference, meanwhile, termed the protest as a "drama > enacted by the ruling National Conference to mislead the visiting US > President Barack Obama about the situation in the Valley". > > Acting general secretary of the amalgam Nissar Hussain Rather said, "Strikes > and and protests are effective means to invite the attention of the world > community towards Kashmir issue." > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajkamal From agora158 at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 15:10:49 2010 From: agora158 at gmail.com (Ana Valdes) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 10:40:49 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia In-Reply-To: <565294.83902.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <565294.83902.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7FDB0853-3B36-40C7-B159-A0250C412D62@gmail.com> Spivak, Roy, it seems only the women who had achieved some international presence has the power to provoke and upset. I met Spivak several times and I am always happy surprised for her intellectual capacity of renovation and her views. By the way some years ago she told me she spent several months each year in India teaching in à very humble ways in à school for girls in the country, far fr.o.m. cities and commodities. Ana Skickat från min iPhone 8 nov 2010 kl. 10:13 skrev Aalok Aima : > comment made in a facebook group by shantiveer kaul: > > " Kashmir has become the whore of academia - subject to merchandizing and ‘intellectual summation-characterization’ of essential reductionists/ fake modernists; Spivak spewing senors and senoras at a safe 'university-funded' distance – recording only the passing of a minor, or the making of a major academic event; who spout Deleuze and Guattari at the drop of a bonnet, deconstruct pointless death into a reading of martyrdom that can be packaged and sold at Oxford if not at Harrods and who co-opt our brightest young minds to become their articled clerks. We live in sad times." > > ......... aalok aima > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 15:26:12 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 01:56:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia In-Reply-To: <7FDB0853-3B36-40C7-B159-A0250C412D62@gmail.com> Message-ID: <886503.27604.qm@web120212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ana   i will try and convey your response to shantiveer   i myself have no idea who spivak, deleuze and guattari are or what their gender is   from what i read in the comment, it does not question the stature or brilliance of those names   .......... aalok aima --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Ana Valdes wrote: From: Ana Valdes Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia To: "Aalok Aima" Cc: "reader-list list" Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 1:40 PM Spivak, Roy, it seems only the women who had achieved some international presence has the power to provoke and upset. I met Spivak several times and I am always happy surprised for her intellectual capacity of renovation and her views. By the way some years ago she told me she spent several months each year in India teaching in à very humble  ways in à school for girls in the country, far fr.o.m. cities and commodities. Ana Skickat från min iPhone 8 nov 2010 kl. 10:13 skrev Aalok Aima : > comment made in a facebook group by shantiveer kaul: >  > " Kashmir has become the whore of academia - subject to merchandizing and ‘intellectual summation-characterization’ of essential reductionists/ fake modernists; Spivak spewing senors and senoras at a safe 'university-funded' distance – recording only the passing of a minor, or the making of a major academic event; who spout Deleuze and Guattari at the drop of a bonnet, deconstruct pointless death into a reading of martyrdom that can be packaged and sold at Oxford if not at Harrods and who co-opt our brightest young minds to become their articled clerks. We live in sad times." >  > ......... aalok aima > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From samvitr at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 15:26:33 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:26:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia In-Reply-To: <7FDB0853-3B36-40C7-B159-A0250C412D62@gmail.com> References: <565294.83902.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <7FDB0853-3B36-40C7-B159-A0250C412D62@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ana, I think you must visit India. You will see things first hand. I have traveled to the nook and corner of this vast nation and I have found women rubbing shoulders with men in all fields. In many fields woman have outpaced men. In the Indian society women are treated at par with men. Roy is a small fry here. She seems to be famous outside India only, and yes, in Kashmir. She knows the right places to get publicity. It is a typical colonial mindset where some people prefer to be known abroad than on the street of their country. You may feel that I am biased and I will respect your view. But it is better to be judgmental about things only when you seen/tried them first hand. I have met women who drive trains, buses, are great dancers, businessmen, chefs, actors....they are everywhere. India is a vast country and it does have its flaws and we all are trying to make things better. Science tells us that there is nothing "perfect" in this world. We are all learning. Give us some time. Let us overcome our warts. -Samvit On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Ana Valdes wrote: > Spivak, Roy, it seems only the women who had achieved some international presence has the power to provoke and upset. > I met Spivak several times and I am always happy surprised for her intellectual capacity of renovation and her views. > By the way some years ago she told me she spent several months each year in India teaching in à very humble  ways in à school for girls in the country, far fr.o.m. cities and commodities. > Ana > > Skickat från min iPhone > > 8 nov 2010 kl. 10:13 skrev Aalok Aima : > >> comment made in a facebook group by shantiveer kaul: >> >> " Kashmir has become the whore of academia - subject to merchandizing and ‘intellectual summation-characterization’ of essential reductionists/ fake modernists; Spivak spewing senors and senoras at a safe 'university-funded' distance – recording only the passing of a minor, or the making of a major academic event; who spout Deleuze and Guattari at the drop of a bonnet, deconstruct pointless death into a reading of martyrdom that can be packaged and sold at Oxford if not at Harrods and who co-opt our brightest young minds to become their articled clerks. We live in sad times." >> >> ......... aalok aima >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From agora158 at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 15:44:57 2010 From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:14:57 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia In-Reply-To: References: <565294.83902.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <7FDB0853-3B36-40C7-B159-A0250C412D62@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear friends, please accept my apologies if my views seem tainted of ignorance! But they are posted in a honest intellectual try to analyze and discuss our complex world. I should love to visit India and I have been invited several times for friends in Kerala and Bangalore, but I didn't have the means yet to achieve these goal. For them not knowing Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak I should recommend you to make a Google searching about her. She is one of the most brilliant scholars and writers in our time, specialized in French psychoanalyze and postcolonial studies. She defined herself as a post-marxist and her best book, "Can the subaltern speak?" is based in the writings of the Marxist Italian writer and philosopher Antonio Gramsci, who was so pivotal. for the books written by Negri and Hardt, Empire and Multitude. Her translation of Derrida was a great contribution to the understanding of him. Spivak is a tenured professor at Columbia University but she is a passionate and engaged woman in not denial, she is born in India and raised in India and she founded a project in West Bengal. *Spivak founded The Pares Chandra and Sivani Chakravorty Memorial Education Project, a not-for-profit 501(c)3 organization, in 1997, to provide a primary education of quality for children in some of the poorest regions of the globe, continuing work that Spivak had started doing in 1986. The Project currently operates schools in rural areas of West Bengal, India. By setting up schools and giving sustained training to local teachers who operate them with the help of local supervisors, the Project seeks to offer children in these areas the resources to enter the mainstream education system for high school and beyond. The Project is committed to using the existing state curriculum and textbooks to train teachers, in the belief that by using these materials they can better enable their students to enter the national education system on equal terms with others. "Since India constantly brags about being the world's largest democracy, and this is a large sector of the electorate, what I'm trying to do is develop rituals of democratic habits," she said of the Project." And she is not only founding it, she is committed to it and teach every year in rural schools. Ana On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Samvit wrote: > Ana, > I think you must visit India. You will see things first hand. I have > traveled to the nook and corner of this vast nation and I have found > women rubbing shoulders with men in all fields. In many fields woman > have outpaced men. In the Indian society women are treated at par with > men. > Roy is a small fry here. She seems to be famous outside India only, > and yes, in Kashmir. She knows the right places to get publicity. It > is a typical colonial mindset where some people prefer to be known > abroad than on the street of their country. You may feel that I am > biased and I will respect your view. But it is better to be judgmental > about things only when you seen/tried them first hand. > > I have met women who drive trains, buses, are great dancers, > businessmen, chefs, actors....they are everywhere. India is a vast > country and it does have its flaws and we all are trying to make > things better. Science tells us that there is nothing "perfect" in > this world. We are all learning. Give us some time. Let us overcome > our warts. > -Samvit > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Ana Valdes wrote: > > Spivak, Roy, it seems only the women who had achieved some international > presence has the power to provoke and upset. > > I met Spivak several times and I am always happy surprised for her > intellectual capacity of renovation and her views. > > By the way some years ago she told me she spent several months each year > in India teaching in à very humble ways in à school for girls in the > country, far fr.o.m. cities and commodities. > > Ana > > > > Skickat från min iPhone > > > > 8 nov 2010 kl. 10:13 skrev Aalok Aima : > > > >> comment made in a facebook group by shantiveer kaul: > >> > >> " Kashmir has become the whore of academia - subject to merchandizing > and ‘intellectual summation-characterization’ of essential reductionists/ > fake modernists; Spivak spewing senors and senoras at a safe > 'university-funded' distance – recording only the passing of a minor, or the > making of a major academic event; who spout Deleuze and Guattari at the drop > of a bonnet, deconstruct pointless death into a reading of martyrdom that > can be packaged and sold at Oxford if not at Harrods and who co-opt our > brightest young minds to become their articled clerks. We live in sad > times." > >> > >> ......... aalok aima > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Nov 8 15:49:28 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (nmf2010) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 11:19:28 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_46__on_NewMediaFest?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=272010?= Message-ID: <20101108111928.2878CBF3.1325CBC4@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest'2010 ----------------------------------------- program- week 46 ---> 8-14 November 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1133 ----------------------------------------- 1. ----------------------------------------- VideoChannel Cologne - proudly presents --> Feature of the Month November 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1129 Family Affair 2 - Father curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne featuring videos by following 12 artists Antonio Alvarado (Spain) - Zack Bent (USA)- Yin-Ling Chen (Taiwan) Virginia Colwell (USA) - Lindsay Foster (USA) - Constantin Hartenstein (Germany) Shahar Marcus (Israel)- Antti Savela (Sweden) - Chris Stockbridge (UK) Marc Thele (Germany) - Anders Weberg (Sweden) - Zellner Bros. (USA) ----------------------------------------- 2 ----------------------------------------- Feature of the week 46 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1131 JavaMuseum - Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art is happy to continue its 10 year celebrating on "Celebrate!" featuring this week 7 exciting netart pieces by "Reality_Bytes" - "Be A Man" - "Sugar & Spice" by Sean Hovendock (USA) "Homage to Albers's Hommage to Square" by Roberto Echen (Argentina) . "Dynasty" - "Chambers" - "Fresh" by Nicole Stenger (France/USA) ----------------------------------------- NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org --------------------------------------- From aliens at dataone.in Mon Nov 8 15:53:18 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 15:53:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> Message-ID: <001301cb7f2e$f86edf70$e94c9e50$@in> Dear Inder, Maharaja Hari Singh, the then king of Kashmir, signed the instrument of accession on October 26, 1947 to remain with India. Same way as other kingdom of India did at that time. It was purely natural process and nothing un-natural in it. Separatists and few others themselves choose complete alienation by freedom movement. When you are demanding freedom by any means and if India accepts it than you must respect and consider the views of other parts of J&K (Jammu/Ladakh) naturally not at all with the separatists movement. So, to achieve what you want, you have to become alienated in your state and go ahead further. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 11:49 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE Dear Lalit see, does it make any difference by adding Bar-e islam with Azadi. do u see Islam as a scar on their foreheads , i dont see, in spite of the fact that i am not a believer , but i respect the sentiments of the other, be it Hindu or Sikh or what ever and how will you chase the entire kashmiri population to Tora Bora. and how do you think that those caves belong to Muslims there, my dear they will be sooner or later occupied by Americans-Chinese and Pakistanis it will be a different world after some time. Very deep and dangerous things are happening and believe me, you will support this resistance that time, if we both are alive. What happened to KP community was tragic, most sad and i dont see any way out to that problem, if you aim to resolve that by mixing it with Indian Nationalism, it is a log jam. . I believe, KP will best serve their cultural moorings by restoring links with their KM's back in the valley. it would be again sad to provoke KMs and make them more indifferent to anything which has a Pandit tag in the valley. KPs need to realize the priority, is it Indian Nationalism or their Language/cutlure or even returning back to homes. I would love to see the later restored at the cost of former well, dear Bipin, i would love to see Kashmir as part of India if it happens very naturally. but has it since 1947. Kashmir was part of India in the past so was India part of Central Asia, and vice versa. History is history, Alexandra once annexed large part of India with his empire, Recent history tells me that that Kashmir was annexed by Akbar by killing Yousuf Shah Check and since then it a part of India. Even British thought it far and costly affair to maintain, and so sold it. What is your solution to the present mess, complete alienation? Army ? love is On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Obliterate the proponents of 'azadi -bara -e- Islam' ( freedom through/for > Islam) & you will realise that Kashmir was always part of India.It is not a > dream,Kashmiri Muslims themselves will chase these 'azadi' pedllers to the > caves of Tora Bora....it is only a matter of time. > Rgds all > LA > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:41:01 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >> INDEPENDENCE >> >> Dear Bipin >> >> you dont answer me, >> >> how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India >> without the presence of Army ? >> >> >> please answer >> >> but with love >> is >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >> > Dear Inder, >> > >> > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me >> > sending again bellow. >> > >> > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating >> > constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to >> > divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and >> > will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that >> > their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate >> > first in the proper direction. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Bipin Trivedi >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >> > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >> > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM >> > To: reader-list >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >> > INDEPENDENCE >> > >> > Dear Bipin >> > >> > it is 100 per cent >> > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does >> > not work >> > >> > what can one do? >> > >> > love in any case >> > >> > is >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi >> > wrote: >> >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day >> >> dream..............keep it up >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >> >> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM >> >> To: reader-list >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >> >> INDEPENDENCE >> >> >> >> dear Samvit >> >> >> >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, >> >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and >> >> your like minded friends are reacting. >> >> >> >> yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some >> >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has >> >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the >> >> history of Radio of those days. >> >> >> >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 >> >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. >> >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day >> >> light, not night, right >> >> >> >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, >> >> or what ? >> >> >> >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should >> >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and >> >> how can you reverse that.? >> >> >> >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, >> >> with love >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >> >>> Inder, >> >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >> >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of >> >>> this >> >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict >> >>> others >> >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send >> >>> spam. >> >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >> >>> -SR >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >> >>>> a >> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >> >>>> > 95 >> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >> >>>> > 4fA >> >>>> > >> >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >> >>>> > >> >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian >> >>>> > and >> >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >> >>>> > unrest >> >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent >> >>>> > survey >> >>>> > found >> >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >> >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the >> >>>> > sub-continent >> >>>> > in >> >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >> >>>> > belong >> >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the >> >>>> > plebiscite >> >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >> >>>> > survey, >> >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess >> >>>> > the >> >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- >> >>>> > the de >> >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >> >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >> >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on >> >>>> > how >> >>>> > they >> >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a >> >>>> > constant >> >>>> > source >> >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of >> >>>> > Indian >> >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one >> >>>> > percent. >> >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted >> >>>> > a >> >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >> >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the >> >>>> > eruption >> >>>> > of >> >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over >> >>>> > Kashmir, but >> >>>> > a >> >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > _________________________________________ >> >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> >> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >>>> _________________________________________ >> >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 16:20:11 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 02:50:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia In-Reply-To: <7FDB0853-3B36-40C7-B159-A0250C412D62@gmail.com> Message-ID: <732687.65224.qm@web120205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ana   i shared your response with shantiveer and he has written back: "Thanks! As you rightly pointed out 'it does not question the stature or brilliance of these names'. Actually I would echo Ana, for I myself am captivated by the sharp intellect of Gayatri Chakraborty Spivak. I have been seeing an army of 'academics' descend on Kashmir all these years in the search of 'research' of all kinds. The present comment was precipitated by one ........"    (shantiveer) particular references to names and their activities witheld by me ........... aalok aima     Aalok Aima aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 15:26:12 IST 2010   ana   i will try and convey your response to shantiveer   i myself have no idea who spivak, deleuze and guattari are or what their gender is   from what i read in the comment, it does not question the stature or brilliance of those names   .......... aalok aima --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Ana Valdes wrote: From: Ana Valdes Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia To: "Aalok Aima" Cc: "reader-list list" Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 1:40 PM Spivak, Roy, it seems only the women who had achieved some international presence has the power to provoke and upset. I met Spivak several times and I am always happy surprised for her intellectual capacity of renovation and her views. By the way some years ago she told me she spent several months each year in India teaching in à very humble  ways in à school for girls in the country, far fr.o.m. cities and commodities. Ana Skickat från min iPhone 8 nov 2010 kl. 10:13 skrev Aalok Aima : > comment made in a facebook group by shantiveer kaul: >  > " Kashmir has become the whore of academia - subject to merchandizing and ‘intellectual summation-characterization’ of essential reductionists/ fake modernists; Spivak spewing senors and senoras at a safe 'university-funded' distance – recording only the passing of a minor, or the making of a major academic event; who spout Deleuze and Guattari at the drop of a bonnet, deconstruct pointless death into a reading of martyrdom that can be packaged and sold at Oxford if not at Harrods and who co-opt our brightest young minds to become their articled clerks. We live in sad times." >  > ......... aalok aima > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 16:39:43 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 03:09:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <520722.10434.qm@web120215.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ana   (since you have copied the mail to me)   i do apologise for my lack of knowledge about spivak ...... comes out of my lack of interest generally in academics or their work   after your mail, i did try to read up on her but unfortunately her work, i realise,  would be too terse for the layman that i am   what i can certainly appreciate is the work of "The Pares Chandra and Sivani Chakravorty Memorial Education Project" and the focus in:   "currently operates schools in rural areas of West Bengal, India. By setting up schools and giving sustained training to local teachers who operate them with the help of local supervisors, the Project seeks to offer children in these areas the resources to enter the mainstream education system for high school and beyond."   a dire need in india   thanks   ........... aalok aima --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Ana Valdés wrote: From: Ana Valdés Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir has become the whore of academia To: "Samvit" Cc: "Aalok Aima" , "reader-list list" Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 2:14 PM Dear friends, please accept my apologies if my views seem tainted of ignorance! But they are posted in a honest intellectual try to analyze and discuss our complex world. I should love to visit India and I have been invited several times for friends in Kerala and Bangalore, but I didn't have the means yet to achieve these goal. For them not knowing Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak I should recommend you to make a Google searching about her. She is one of the most brilliant scholars and writers in our time, specialized in French psychoanalyze and postcolonial studies. She defined herself as a post-marxist and her best book, "Can the subaltern speak?" is based in the writings of the Marxist Italian writer and philosopher Antonio Gramsci, who was so pivotal. for the books written by Negri and Hardt, Empire and Multitude. Her translation of Derrida was a great contribution to the understanding of him. Spivak is a tenured professor at Columbia University but she is a passionate and engaged woman in not denial, she is born in India and raised in India and she founded a project in West Bengal. *Spivak founded The Pares Chandra and Sivani Chakravorty Memorial Education Project, a not-for-profit 501(c)3 organization, in 1997, to provide a primary education of quality for children in some of the poorest regions of the globe, continuing work that Spivak had started doing in 1986. The Project currently operates schools in rural areas of West Bengal, India. By setting up schools and giving sustained training to local teachers who operate them with the help of local supervisors, the Project seeks to offer children in these areas the resources to enter the mainstream education system for high school and beyond. The Project is committed to using the existing state curriculum and textbooks to train teachers, in the belief that by using these materials they can better enable their students to enter the national education system on equal terms with others. "Since India constantly brags about being the world's largest democracy, and this is a large sector of the electorate, what I'm trying to do is develop rituals of democratic habits," she said of the Project." And she is not only founding it, she is committed to it and teach every year in rural schools. Ana On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Samvit wrote: Ana, I think you must visit India. You will see things first hand. I have traveled to the nook and corner of this vast nation and I have found women rubbing shoulders with men in all fields. In many fields woman have outpaced men. In the Indian society women are treated at par with men. Roy is a small fry here. She seems to be famous outside India only, and yes, in Kashmir. She knows the right places to get publicity. It is a typical colonial mindset where some people prefer to be known abroad than on the street of their country. You may feel that I am biased and I will respect your view. But it is better to be judgmental about things only when you seen/tried them first hand. I have met women who drive trains, buses, are great dancers, businessmen, chefs, actors....they are everywhere. India is a vast country and it does have its flaws and we all are trying to make things better. Science tells us that there is nothing "perfect" in this world. We are all learning. Give us some time. Let us overcome our warts. -Samvit On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Ana Valdes wrote: > Spivak, Roy, it seems only the women who had achieved some international presence has the power to provoke and upset. > I met Spivak several times and I am always happy surprised for her intellectual capacity of renovation and her views. > By the way some years ago she told me she spent several months each year in India teaching in à very humble  ways in à school for girls in the country, far fr.o.m. cities and commodities. > Ana > > Skickat från min iPhone > > 8 nov 2010 kl. 10:13 skrev Aalok Aima : > >> comment made in a facebook group by shantiveer kaul: >> >> " Kashmir has become the whore of academia - subject to merchandizing and ‘intellectual summation-characterization’ of essential reductionists/ fake modernists; Spivak spewing senors and senoras at a safe 'university-funded' distance – recording only the passing of a minor, or the making of a major academic event; who spout Deleuze and Guattari at the drop of a bonnet, deconstruct pointless death into a reading of martyrdom that can be packaged and sold at Oxford if not at Harrods and who co-opt our brightest young minds to become their articled clerks. We live in sad times." >> >> ......... aalok aima >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 16:46:17 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 16:46:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Parliament attack case: SC rejects Geelani's plea for quashing perjury charges Message-ID: Parliament attack case: SC rejects Geelani's plea for quashing perjury charges*Link - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Parliament-attack-case--SC-rejects-Geelani--s-plea-for-quashing-perjury-charges/708184 New Delhi* The Supreme Court on Monday rejected a plea of S A R Geelani, a Delhi University teacher who was acquitted in 2002 Parliament attack case, for quashing of criminal proceedings against him on the charge of perjury for giving false residential address in court. A bench comprising Justices P Sathasivasm and B S Chauhan said that it would not interfere with the Delhi High Court's order dismissing the plea of Geelani. Earlier, the Delhi High Court had dismissed a petition filed by Geelani challenging the summoning order issued by the trial court against him for providing allegedly wrong address to the court while standing as a surety for an accused in a bomb blast case. As surety for Mirza Iftikhar Hussain, who was acquitted by the trial court in the 1996 Lajpat Nagar bombing case, Geelani had provided fake address to the court. Hussain, who was also facing trial in another case relating to an attack on an undertrial during his stay at Tihar Jail on April 15, 2008, registered with Hari Nagar police station, had applied for bail which was granted by the court on April 19. From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 18:04:59 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 04:34:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Welcoming Lakshmi with 'Bismillah' In-Reply-To: <617950.63721.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <592525.58201.qm@web120202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> wonderful article ...... thank you yousuf   though both might be quoted as examples of syncretism, there is a differentiation in the adopting of 'hindu rituals/practices' by muslims and the participation by muslims in 'hindu rituals/practices'   in my opinion, hindus have lagged behind on both counts   for example, i would like to see hindus vigourously  adopt the 'equality of all' inspirational message of islam  ...... that wont convert them into muslims but make them better hindus (i am ignoring here islam permitting the institution of slavery ..... at least in india it is extinct with 'bonded labour' not being religion specific)   i would like to see some of the core financial principals in islam enter the system and perhaps save us somewhat from the scourge of credit-fuelled-consumerism   apart from the hug-kiss exchanges on eid and the asking-for-favours at 'dargahs', hindus need to find more involved ways of participating in the rituals/practices of the muslims   ........ aalok aima       --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Yousuf wrote: From: Yousuf Subject: [Reader-list] Welcoming Lakshmi with 'Bismillah' To: "sarai list" Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 8:12 AM Here in India, welcoming Lakshmi with 'Bismillah' Mohammed Wajihuddin and Insiya Amir, TNN, Nov 7, 2010 As a practicing Muslim, Urdu journalist Hasan Kamaal prays five times a day, fasts during the month of Ramzan and donates the mandatory 2.5% of his income as zakat or charity. But when his neighbours on a leafy Bandra lane in Mumbai celebrated Diwali on Friday, Kamaal joined in enthusiastically. Kamaal says it's all part of "sharing joy". He describes the festivities: "Like in the past, this Diwali too, my daughter Sameera kept a few diyas on our doorstep. The flickering diyas looked so beautiful." Kamaal grew up in Lucknow, a city whose syncretic culture had Hindus and Muslims enjoying fireworks displays, lighting lamps and kite-flying contests. Likewise, in Nagpur, the Rassiwalla family, which belongs to the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim sect, celebrated Diwali by opening their account books. Starting the year's trading book on the Hindu new year is traditional among Hindu traders but it is hallowed custom for the Rassiwallas too. "We check for a favourable time on our calendar and open our books on Diwali, except that instead of 'shubh labh' we write 'Bismillah'," says Asghar Rassiwalla, head of the family. He adds that this custom is now no more than a symbolic gesture because the new books only start to be used a few months later, in April, when the new Indian financial year begins. The Rassiwallas are hardly unusual in the Bohra community. Most Bohra traders open new account books on Diwali because their community expressly approves of this. Many also observe other Diwali traditions. "We have been living in a predominantly Hindu colony for the past 40 years. I can't imagine Diwali without gainda phool, diyas, rangoli and crackers. My workers even have a Lakshmi puja," says Zubair Popat, who owns an advertising agency in Delhi. "My family absolutely loves Diwali. How can anyone not?" If Popat and the Rassiwallas are not unusual among Bohras, the Bohras are not unusual among India's many diverse Muslim communities. There are others, for instance, the Ismaili Khoja, a trading community spread across mainly India and Pakistan, who converted to Islam from Hinduism. "Maybe it is because like all good businessmen, we believe that when in Rome, do as the Romans do," reasons Mumbai diamond trader Alam Merchant. "And of course, there is the fact that our lineage lies in Hinduism, so the traditions have passed on through generations regardless of religion," he adds. Is this an elastic quality unique to Indian Islam? Perhaps. It is certainly true that Indian Muslims, through centuries of interaction with India's dominant religion, Hinduism, have adopted several Hindu customs and traditions. Weddings are a case in point. A qazi solemnizes the nikah, ritually recites Quranic verses and delivers, post-nikah, the khutba or sermon. Ideally, a Muslim wedding ends there. Not in India. Elaborate pre-nuptial ceremonies including haldi and mehndi, and post-wedding song and dance of late, feature in Muslim weddings, much like for Hindus. The Quran does not recommend offering lavish food to wedding guests but Indian Muslims are often seen to outdo their Hindu neighbours in serving up multi-course feasts. Some little time ago, Muslim clerics in Hyderabad threatened to boycott weddings if more than one variety of biryani was served up. "Celebrating marriage with a feast is not an Islamic ritual. It has reached Muslims from the Hindu custom of bhoj. But now it is part of Indian Muslim custom too," explains Mumbai-based social commentator Zaheer Ali who has written extensively on India's Ganga-Jamuni tehzeeb or composite culture. Indian Muslims' adoption of aspects of Hindu custom goes much beyond Diwali and weddings. Monotheistic Islam prohibits idol worshipping but many Muslim artisans ply a trade that goes against this — they carve beautiful idols of Ram, Krishna, Durga and Ganesh. Some Muslims find nothing unusual in playing characters in Ramleela and Krishnaleela. Clothes and ornamentation are another indicator of shared practice across religions. The more conservative Muslim may advocate purdah, but many Indian Muslim women customarily wear saris, apply sindoor if they are married, their wrists heavy with bangles. For Muslim men, especially in the hinterland, dhoti-kurta rather than pyjama-kurta, is the preferred costume. With Hindu customs and traditions so much a part of life for some Muslim communities, amazing examples of syncreticism crop up every day. Just last week senior Congress leaders Digvijay Singh and Ghulam Nabi Azad inaugurated a multi-specialty hospital in Mumbai. It is owned by former Congress MLC and businessman Muzaffar Hussain. The programme began with a group of sari-clad Hindu nurses, singing a Sanskrit song to welcome guests. No one objected. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/special-report/Here-in-India-welcoming-Lakshmi-with-Bismillah/articleshow/6882027.cms       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 18:35:56 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 18:35:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Maoists blow up school, kill two in protest against Obama visit Message-ID: *Maoists blow up school, kill two in protest against Obama visit* *PP Wangchuk, Hindustan Times Link - http://www.hindustantimes.com/Maoists-blow-up-school-kill-two-in-protest-against-Obama-visit/Article1-623515.aspx * On the day of their shutdown call in protest against President Barak Obama's India visit, Maoist on Monday blew up a school building, killed two persons and block roads in south Orissa districts of Malkangiri, Nawrangpur and Koraput, police said. The police, on the other hand, arrested two persons in Koraput while they were allegedly supplying explosives to the Maoists. Police said about 30 armed cadres of the Communist Party of India (Maoist) raided the newly constructed residential school building for tribal students at Gomphakunda village in Malkangiri, about 600 km southwest of Bhubaneswar in the wee hours and blew it up with landmine. No one was inside the building at the time of the blast. They left posters at the site which protested President Obama's India visit. "It was a sheer desperation on the part of the Maoists to have blown up a newly constructed school building," Southern range DIG Soumendra Priyadarshi told the Hindustan Times. In another incident, the armed ultras killed two persons at Dimanpur in Nawrangpur district – just four kilometers from the Chhatisgarh border and about 550 km southwest of Bhubandwar. In the posters they left behind, the ultras claimed that the two were punished as they indulged in criminal activities in the area by claiming themselves as Maoists. The Maoists also felled trees on the road from Jaypore in Koraput district to Malkangiri distupting vehicular traffic completely along the route. From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 19:32:42 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 06:02:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri militant groups still recruiting in Pakistan Message-ID: <751588.43498.qm@web120220.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> beware!!!!   be aware of what is yet to come in kashmir   ............ aalok aima     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11697782   8 November 2010 Kashmiri militant groups still recruiting in Pakistan By Aleem Maqbool BBC News, Muzaffarabad   "There are different types of duties I can now be sent to do," says the man we have come to meet, but whose identity we have to conceal.   I can be kept here in the reserves, be asked to recruit new members, or they can send me across into Indian-held Kashmir for jihad," he says.   Until the spring, this 25-year-old had been studying engineering; now he is a militant.   As he describes why he left his studies, he quotes from the Koran and repeats justifications for his choice, which have clearly been taught to him.   "While I was at university, I started going to sermons given by preachers and, thank God, I joined a jihadi group," he says.   "I went to a training camp with hundreds of others for three months. Now I'm ready to do whatever they ask me, to win all of Kashmir for Pakistan.   "The Indians are killing our brothers and sisters. If everyone sits around doing nothing, who will bring liberation?   "God willing, our blood will bring change," the young man adds.   He tells me his family are happy about his choice, and that they will be proud if he becomes a martyr and goes to heaven.   But that turns out not to be the case. After much persuasion, he allows us to meet his mother.   'Brainwashed' "Only over my dead body will my son go for jihad," she says.   She tells us that she thought her son was going for Koranic teaching but that she was horrified to find that he had, in fact, had militant training.   "I pray to God to keep him here and not let him go. I won't let him," she adds.   And the man's brother, we find, is furious.   "He is a different person since he went to the training camp; the way he talks and dresses. They have brainwashed him.   "If Pakistan wants to fight India, why doesn't it do it through its army, why does it have to use boys like my brother?" he says.   The implication being that it is the Pakistani state that is behind the radicalisation and preparation of his brother as a militant.   In 1947, India was partitioned. Muslim-majority Indian states formed the new nation of Pakistan. But in the hastiness of the split, the fate of Kashmir, whose population was more than three-quarters Muslim, was never fully resolved.   In the late 1940s, the United Nations had demanded that India allow a vote in Kashmir so people there could decide upon their future. India said it agreed, but the poll was never held.   The territory is now split between the two regional powers. They have fought wars for its overall control, but in the last 20 years, an insurgency has also taken root.   There was a time when it was an open secret that the Pakistani authorities were directly supporting militancy in Kashmir.   But now Pakistan claims those days are over.   "I assure you, as a state, as a government, there is no such policy of training Kashmiri militants to be sent across [to Indian-administered Kashmir]," Pakistan's Interior Minister, Rehman Malik, tells me.   He says that because of the monitoring of his government, militant groups have been brought under control, that they are no longer a threat to India, and that fighters cannot cross into the Indian-run side of Kashmir.   When I tell him about the militant we had met, and the organised training camp he had talked of, Mr Malik admitted there might be "some non-state groups" still operating.   'Supporting militancy' But most people living in Pakistani-administered Kashmir will say the government is not telling the full story.   "The intelligence agencies in Pakistan are still fully supporting and financing militant groups here and the government is completely aware," says Zahid Habib Sheikh, from the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF).   "They will tell you there are no training camps but, of course, there are. This has always been Pakistan's Kashmir strategy, but it is a selfish policy that has only damaged our cause," he adds.   Mr Sheikh says he feels Pakistan is supporting militancy here not for the sake of Kashmiris, but to keep India engaged in conflict, and to use the militants as a bargaining chip in negotiations.   "Pakistan has also turned what should be a nationalist cause, about human rights abuses by India, into a religious cause," he says.   The organisation he belongs to re-launched its "Quit Kashmir" campaign earlier this year. It calls for both India and Pakistan to end their involvement in the region.   In what is traditionally protest season in Pakistani-administered Kashmir, where all political groups hold rallies, the march by JKLF was one of the biggest in Muzaffarabad, blocking the centre of the city.   People across Pakistani-administered Kashmir are united in their anger over the recent deaths of over a hundred Kashmiris in the Indian-administered side, killed while protesting against Indian control.   Just as we are leaving Muzaffarabad, after the "Quit Kashmir" rally, we hear crowd noise coming from a marketplace.   There, in the middle of the day, stands a bearded man on a platform, surrounded by armed men in military-type fatigues.   Scores of people have gathered to listen to what he has to say, and respond to his slogans by chanting them back.   He is a senior militant leader, openly urging new recruits to step forward. Undoubtedly more of them will. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 20:21:48 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:21:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Controversial Muslim survey in Kerala irks residents Message-ID: Controversial Muslim survey in Kerala irks residents Sovi Vidyadharan, Updated: November 05, 2010 22:31 IST Thiruvananthapuram: An America-based survey has hit communal sentiments in Kerala with a provocative questionnaire aimed at gauging the attitude towards America and Islam. Now the Centre has taken up the issue, with the Home Ministry demanding a report from the Intelligence Bureau on the survey. Questions like these were asked: * Do you consider yourself an Indian first or Muslim? * What's your view on imposing Islamic law in India? These are some of the controversial questions in the 83-page questionnaire, part of a survey done in a Muslim-dominated locality of Thiruvananthapuram a month ago. The door to door survey by the Kochi branch of a Hyderabad-headquartered agency called TNS was carried out by a five-member all-woman team. NDTV has a copy of the questionnaire that also asked the respondents: Their views about the US administration and its policies and whether America is seen as anti-Muslim. Residents of the colony in Thiruvananthapuram, where the survey was conducted, say it is the objectionable and controversial nature of the questions that made them alert the police. "They asked us many questions that provoked us. Questions like whether you consider yourself as an Indian or a Muslim, your opinion of Osama Bin Laden, your view of the Indian military etc," said Afsal Khan, local resident. Irritated by such questions, respondents called in the police after which the survey was stopped. The women were questioned and later released. TNS authorities were called in who said they were doing the survey for the Washington-based Princeton Survey Research Associates. "Since the survey had many questions with a communal overtone, we have registered a case of promoting enmity between various groups (Sec 153 A of IPC) and we are investigating the matter. We have also sought the help of the Central agencies on this," said Jacob Punnoose, Director General of Police, Kerala. Despite repeated attempts by NDTV, the agency that did the survey did not take calls. Security agencies are also analysing the timing of the survey as it was done just weeks before US President Obama's visit to India. http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/controversial-muslim-survey-in-kerala-irks-residents-64605 From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 22:20:50 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 22:20:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 2 killed as vehicle caught in stone-pelting turns turtle in Kashmir valley Message-ID: *2 killed as vehicle caught in stone-pelting turns turtle in Kashmir valley * By *Ishfaq-ul-Hassan - DNA Link - http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_2-killed-as-vehicle-caught-in-stone-pelting-turns-turtle-in-kashmir-vally_1463615 * Two people were killed and three injured in Kashmir’s Shopian district when a mini-truck turned turtle after it was caught in stone-pelting on Saturday. The driver lost control as passengers panicked when the vehicle came under stone pelting, police said. The incident occurred when protesters were enforcing a strike after Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani called a civil curfew for three days starting Saturday. The strike was apparently to highlight the Kashmir issue during US president Barack Obama’s visit to India. The deceased have been identified as Mohammad Ramzan Malik and Javaid Ahmad. Among the injured are one Ismail and his son Abdul Rashid Naikoo. An investigation has been ordered into the incident, an officer said. This is the sixth incident of civilians being killed during stone-pelting in Kashmir. Meanwhile, clashes broke out between activists of pro-India Jammu and Kashmir NGO Forum and civilians at Lal Chowk after the former group hoisted a white flag on the clock tower denouncing strikes and protest calendars of the Hurriyat hardliners. As the forum raised slogans against the separatists, locals gathered asking them to leave. Youths tore down the white flag and burnt it in public. Police had to resort to lathicharge to bring the situation under control. Official figures reveal that around 110 people have died and 537 civilians injured between May and September. From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 23:34:21 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 23:34:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: <001301cb7f2e$f86edf70$e94c9e50$@in> References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> <001301cb7f2e$f86edf70$e94c9e50$@in> Message-ID: Well Dear Bipin Quite boring but Why Oct 26 1947, and not August 1947, why Sheikh Mohd Abudllah and Nehru went to UNO Why there is constitution of J&K, whey was there a president and a prime minister Why is there LOC and what is Simla Accord, why Govt of India is saying ' Kashmir conflict ' why is there is 0.7 million indian security, in each and every mohalla, and not on the boarder please answer,gently love is On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Maharaja Hari Singh, the then king of Kashmir, signed the instrument of accession on October 26, 1947 to remain with India. Same way as other kingdom of India did at that time. It was purely natural process and nothing un-natural in it. > > Separatists and few others themselves choose complete alienation by freedom movement. When you are demanding freedom by any means and if India accepts it than you must respect and consider the views of other parts of J&K (Jammu/Ladakh) naturally not at all with the separatists movement. So, to achieve what you want, you have to become alienated in your state and go ahead further. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 11:49 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > Dear Lalit > > see, does it make any difference by adding Bar-e islam with Azadi. > do u see Islam as a scar on their foreheads , i dont see, in spite of > the fact that i am not a believer , but i respect the sentiments of > the other, be it Hindu or Sikh or what ever > > and how will you chase the entire kashmiri population to Tora Bora. > and how do you think that those caves belong to Muslims there, my dear > they will be sooner or later occupied by Americans-Chinese and > Pakistanis >  it will be a different world after some time. Very deep and dangerous > things are happening and believe me, you will support this resistance > that time, if we both are alive. > > What happened to KP community was tragic, most sad and i dont see any > way out to that problem, if  you aim to resolve that by mixing it with > Indian Nationalism, it is a log jam. > > . I believe, KP will best serve their cultural moorings by restoring > links with their KM's back in the valley. > it would be again sad to provoke KMs and make them more indifferent to > anything which has a Pandit tag in the valley. KPs need to realize the > priority, is it Indian Nationalism or their Language/cutlure or even > returning back to homes. I would love to see the later restored at the > cost of former > > well,  dear Bipin, i would love to see Kashmir as part of India if it > happens very naturally. > but has it since 1947. > > Kashmir was part of India in the past so was India part of Central > Asia, and vice versa. History is history, Alexandra once annexed large > part of India with his empire, > > Recent history tells me that that Kashmir was annexed by Akbar by > killing Yousuf Shah Check and since then it a part of India. Even > British thought it far and costly affair to maintain, and so sold it. > > What is your solution to the present mess, complete alienation? > > Army ? > > love > is > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Lalit Ambardar > wrote: >> Obliterate the proponents of 'azadi -bara -e- Islam' ( freedom through/for >> Islam) & you will realise that Kashmir was always part of India.It is not a >> dream,Kashmiri Muslims themselves will chase these 'azadi' pedllers to the >> caves of Tora Bora....it is only a matter of time. >> Rgds all >> LA >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:41:01 +0530 >>> From: indersalim at gmail.com >>> To: reader-list at sarai.net >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >>> INDEPENDENCE >>> >>> Dear Bipin >>> >>> you dont answer me, >>> >>> how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India >>> without the presence of Army ? >>> >>> >>> please answer >>> >>> but with love >>> is >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> > Dear Inder, >>> > >>> > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me >>> > sending again bellow. >>> > >>> > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating >>> > constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to >>> > divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and >>> > will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that >>> > their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate >>> > first in the proper direction. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > Bipin Trivedi >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >>> > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM >>> > To: reader-list >>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >>> > INDEPENDENCE >>> > >>> > Dear Bipin >>> > >>> > it is 100 per cent >>> > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does >>> > not work >>> > >>> > what can one do? >>> > >>> > love in any case >>> > >>> > is >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi >>> > wrote: >>> >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day >>> >> dream..............keep it up >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >>> >> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM >>> >> To: reader-list >>> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >>> >> INDEPENDENCE >>> >> >>> >> dear Samvit >>> >> >>> >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, >>> >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and >>> >> your like minded friends are reacting. >>> >> >>> >> yes,  it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some >>> >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has >>> >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the >>> >> history of Radio of those days. >>> >> >>> >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 >>> >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. >>> >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day >>> >> light, not night, right >>> >> >>> >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, >>> >> or what ? >>> >> >>> >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should >>> >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and >>> >> how can you reverse that.? >>> >> >>> >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, >>> >> with love >>> >> is >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >>> >>> Inder, >>> >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >>> >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of >>> >>> this >>> >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict >>> >>> others >>> >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send >>> >>> spam. >>> >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >>> >>> -SR >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>> >>>> > 4fA >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian >>> >>>> > and >>> >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>> >>>> > unrest >>> >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent >>> >>>> > survey >>> >>>> > found >>> >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>> >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the >>> >>>> > sub-continent >>> >>>> > in >>> >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>> >>>> > belong >>> >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the >>> >>>> > plebiscite >>> >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >>> >>>> > survey, >>> >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess >>> >>>> > the >>> >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- >>> >>>> > the de >>> >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>> >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>> >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on >>> >>>> > how >>> >>>> > they >>> >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a >>> >>>> > constant >>> >>>> > source >>> >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of >>> >>>> > Indian >>> >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one >>> >>>> > percent. >>> >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted >>> >>>> > a >>> >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>> >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the >>> >>>> > eruption >>> >>>> > of >>> >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over >>> >>>> > Kashmir, but >>> >>>> > a >>> >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > _________________________________________ >>> >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> >>> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>> >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> >>> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> >> _________________________________________ >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 11:07:04 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 21:37:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The INSIDE OUT Workshop by Vinod Sreedhar | Nov 25-27 | Ahmedabad Message-ID: <501289.19850.qm@web54406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yet another initiative by Vinod, one of my dearest friends... The attachment can be seen on http://post.ly/1Ar3N ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Vinod Sreedhar Date: 9 November 2010 Subject: the INSIDE OUT workshop - Moving from where you are to where you want to be Hi :) It's time for another Journeys With Meaning visit. But this time it's another kind - not Ladakh or Kashmir or other beautiful places across India that i usually organise visits to. This time it's a journey that will take you deep within a domain that is largely unexplored - an exciting and meaningful voyage into the deepest recesses of your heart and mind. Welcome to... theINSIDE OUT workshop If you've been feeling that there should be much more to life than slogging your way through school & college, struggling to find a good job and then struggling again to keep it, or getting paid a pretty good salary but never having enough to do everything that you really want to do, then let me tell you something - you're absolutely right! Sure, Life can be lived that way. Most people do live their lives pursuing these very things. And they're welcome to that if that's what they really want. But what about you - is that what YOU really want? Here's an opportunity to experience a tremendous shift: * from being confused to knowing exactly what you want in your life * from being lazy and hesitant to becoming highly self-motivated and filled with proactivity * from being worried and anxious to being filled with conviction and positive energy Why INSIDE OUT? It's what we're going to do with ourselves over 3 exciting days later this month - the process of looking within ourselves and completely turning our deepest beliefs, desires, aspirations and fears fully Inside Out. These are going to be brought out into the light and re-examined closely, with honesty and courage. And then we're going to put ourselves through a much needed overhauling. When we're done with it, you're going to come out feeling much clearer about your life, how you want to live it and what actions you're going to take to get from where you are to where you want to be. Who is it for? This workshopis aimed at people who want more out of their lives. Does living life on your terms sound good? And are you willing to invest some time in learning more about who you really are and what your deepest desires and values are? That's all you need really. Combine these insights with the willingness to experiment consciously & intelligently with your life and the learnings from these experiments, and you are on your way to living the good life! What will you learn? You will have to decide in what ways you want to change. The workshop will provide you with the insights, the strategies, a supportive environment, and useful resources which will help you make these changes. These are the different areas that we will be working on: THE INNER Integrity - Complete honesty with self and others Love - Complete acceptance of self and others Courage - Facing one’s fears, incrementally or directly, until they dissolve Excellence - Personal mastery THE OUTER Compassion - Learning to see every relationship and situation with love Trust - Choosing the positive over the negative each time Creativity - Trying as many different approaches as it takes to manifest one’s vision and goals Inclusivity - Working for the good of all... operating on the principle of Oneness. Date and Venue November 25th to 27th at ESI (Environment Sanitation Institute) Sughad, Ahmedabad. To ensure that the quality of interactions is high, the workshop will have a maximum of 20 participants. Please register latest by November 17th. You can email me at vinodsreedhar at gmail.com or call me on +91 9819 154 365 to find out how to register. The Cost The recommended fee for this workshop is Rs.3,700/- for the 3 days. You will be paying for two things mainly: * Rs.1,700/- (which every participant will have to contribute) will cover your stay & food costs and use of the venue facilities for all 3 days. It also includes a small contribution towards my boarding and lodging costs. This amount will go directly to the centre. * The remaining Rs.2,000/- is intended as a voluntary contribution for my time & facilitation and the work that has gone into organizing this workshop. However, as this is a Pay-What-You-Want workshop, this is only a recommended amount. Please feel free to offer less or more than Rs.2,000/- depending on your ability to pay. If you find the workshop helpful, you can go by the value you feel you’ve received and make an appropriate contribution. If you don't find the workshop helpful or are unable to contribute for whatever reason, you don't have to. You could also choose to contribute at a later date if that’s what works for you. All contributions will be made anonymously by participants. Participants will have to bear their own travel costs to and from Ahmedabad from their respective cities. Please see the attached brochure for more details about the workshop. If you don't know me and have received this email from friends, the brochure will also provide more information about me and the work i have been doing over the years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- change what's outside you by changing what’s inside you… -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ www.signposts.co.in - For Those Who Dare To Follow Their Hearts From aliens at dataone.in Tue Nov 9 11:07:59 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 11:07:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE In-Reply-To: References: <004a01cb7cfd$f9067070$eb135150$@in> <000501cb7dd2$3c158ac0$b440a040$@in> <000901cb7dd4$e952d650$bbf882f0$@in> <001301cb7f2e$f86edf70$e94c9e50$@in> Message-ID: <001601cb7fd0$4642d020$d2c87060$@in> Dear Inder, This was Nehru's blunder nothing else. In case of Kashmir, his behavior was totally under suspicion, the reason god knows. However, Simla accord is of no use after 1971 war with Pakistan and new treaty came into existence. Even UNO has also accepted it and confirmed that Simla agreement is irrelevant now. Kashmir issue is totally due to Nehru mistake nothing else. At that time Hyderabad, Junagadh were also problematic and if Nehru allowed to intervene there would have been problematic today like Kashmir. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 11:34 PM To: reader-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE Well Dear Bipin Quite boring but Why Oct 26 1947, and not August 1947, why Sheikh Mohd Abudllah and Nehru went to UNO Why there is constitution of J&K, whey was there a president and a prime minister Why is there LOC and what is Simla Accord, why Govt of India is saying ' Kashmir conflict ' why is there is 0.7 million indian security, in each and every mohalla, and not on the boarder please answer,gently love is On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Maharaja Hari Singh, the then king of Kashmir, signed the instrument of accession on October 26, 1947 to remain with India. Same way as other kingdom of India did at that time. It was purely natural process and nothing un-natural in it. > > Separatists and few others themselves choose complete alienation by freedom movement. When you are demanding freedom by any means and if India accepts it than you must respect and consider the views of other parts of J&K (Jammu/Ladakh) naturally not at all with the separatists movement. So, to achieve what you want, you have to become alienated in your state and go ahead further. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 11:49 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE > > Dear Lalit > > see, does it make any difference by adding Bar-e islam with Azadi. > do u see Islam as a scar on their foreheads , i dont see, in spite of > the fact that i am not a believer , but i respect the sentiments of > the other, be it Hindu or Sikh or what ever > > and how will you chase the entire kashmiri population to Tora Bora. > and how do you think that those caves belong to Muslims there, my dear > they will be sooner or later occupied by Americans-Chinese and > Pakistanis > it will be a different world after some time. Very deep and dangerous > things are happening and believe me, you will support this resistance > that time, if we both are alive. > > What happened to KP community was tragic, most sad and i dont see any > way out to that problem, if you aim to resolve that by mixing it with > Indian Nationalism, it is a log jam. > > . I believe, KP will best serve their cultural moorings by restoring > links with their KM's back in the valley. > it would be again sad to provoke KMs and make them more indifferent to > anything which has a Pandit tag in the valley. KPs need to realize the > priority, is it Indian Nationalism or their Language/cutlure or even > returning back to homes. I would love to see the later restored at the > cost of former > > well, dear Bipin, i would love to see Kashmir as part of India if it > happens very naturally. > but has it since 1947. > > Kashmir was part of India in the past so was India part of Central > Asia, and vice versa. History is history, Alexandra once annexed large > part of India with his empire, > > Recent history tells me that that Kashmir was annexed by Akbar by > killing Yousuf Shah Check and since then it a part of India. Even > British thought it far and costly affair to maintain, and so sold it. > > What is your solution to the present mess, complete alienation? > > Army ? > > love > is > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Lalit Ambardar > wrote: >> Obliterate the proponents of 'azadi -bara -e- Islam' ( freedom through/for >> Islam) & you will realise that Kashmir was always part of India.It is not a >> dream,Kashmiri Muslims themselves will chase these 'azadi' pedllers to the >> caves of Tora Bora....it is only a matter of time. >> Rgds all >> LA >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:41:01 +0530 >>> From: indersalim at gmail.com >>> To: reader-list at sarai.net >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >>> INDEPENDENCE >>> >>> Dear Bipin >>> >>> you dont answer me, >>> >>> how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India >>> without the presence of Army ? >>> >>> >>> please answer >>> >>> but with love >>> is >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: >>> > Dear Inder, >>> > >>> > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me >>> > sending again bellow. >>> > >>> > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating >>> > constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to >>> > divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and >>> > will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that >>> > their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate >>> > first in the proper direction. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > Bipin Trivedi >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >>> > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM >>> > To: reader-list >>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >>> > INDEPENDENCE >>> > >>> > Dear Bipin >>> > >>> > it is 100 per cent >>> > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does >>> > not work >>> > >>> > what can one do? >>> > >>> > love in any case >>> > >>> > is >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi >>> > wrote: >>> >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day >>> >> dream..............keep it up >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >>> >> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim >>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM >>> >> To: reader-list >>> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR >>> >> INDEPENDENCE >>> >> >>> >> dear Samvit >>> >> >>> >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time, >>> >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and >>> >> your like minded friends are reacting. >>> >> >>> >> yes, it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some >>> >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has >>> >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the >>> >> history of Radio of those days. >>> >> >>> >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99 >>> >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there. >>> >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day >>> >> light, not night, right >>> >> >>> >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, >>> >> or what ? >>> >> >>> >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should >>> >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and >>> >> how can you reverse that.? >>> >> >>> >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments, >>> >> with love >>> >> is >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit wrote: >>> >>> Inder, >>> >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not >>> >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of >>> >>> this >>> >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict >>> >>> others >>> >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send >>> >>> spam. >>> >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile. >>> >>> -SR >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and >>> >>>> > 95 >>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu >>> >>>> > 4fA >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010 >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian >>> >>>> > and >>> >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end >>> >>>> > unrest >>> >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent >>> >>>> > survey >>> >>>> > found >>> >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour >>> >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the >>> >>>> > sub-continent >>> >>>> > in >>> >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should >>> >>>> > belong >>> >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the >>> >>>> > plebiscite >>> >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the >>> >>>> > survey, >>> >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess >>> >>>> > the >>> >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- >>> >>>> > the de >>> >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments? >>> >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said. >>> >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on >>> >>>> > how >>> >>>> > they >>> >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a >>> >>>> > constant >>> >>>> > source >>> >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of >>> >>>> > Indian >>> >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one >>> >>>> > percent. >>> >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted >>> >>>> > a >>> >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes". >>> >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the >>> >>>> > eruption >>> >>>> > of >>> >>>> > the insurgency in 1989. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over >>> >>>> > Kashmir, but >>> >>>> > a >>> >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > _________________________________________ >>> >>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> >>> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>> >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> >>> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> >> _________________________________________ >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 11:23:28 2010 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:23:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Closet histories of Pandit/Brahman Suffering in Kashmir. In-Reply-To: <288238.77719.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <288238.77719.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One word abt Greater Kashmir too....is it in the offing On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 1:03 PM, gowhar fazli wrote: > Histories in private circulation that do not get debated in public > multi-ethnic or academic forums but play a great role in sustaining the > hate. This might help understand the narrative of persecution and hate on > which some of the people in this forum have been raised. > > Wailing Kashmir: SEVEN MIGRATIONS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS [Dr Satish Ganjoo] > > [For detailed study: HINDUS AND HINDUISM IN KASHMIR – A SAGA OF DEATH, > CONVERSION & EXILE; Crisis in History: DEATH OF A CIVILIZATION; ABANDONED: > Legendary Kashmiri Pandits; A HISTORY OF KASHMIRI PANDIT GENOCIDE; A > History of the Kashmiri Pandit Race; SATANIC HOLOCAUST OF KASHMIRI PANDITS; > and, Kashmiri Pandits: A FORBIDDEN COMMUNITY – Dr Satish Ganjoo] > > > > Since the advent of Muslim rule in Kashmir [ AD 1339], the legendary > Kashmiri Pandits have suffered SEVEN TRAGIC MIGRATIONS so far. The seventh > and last one was in 1989-90. A brief description of all the seven > migrations is given below: > > > First Migration: In AD 1339, after defeating Kota Rain by a foul strategem > and procuring her death, Shahmir ascended the throne of Kashmir under the > name of Sultan Shamas-ud-Din (The Light of the Religion - Islam). He got > khutaba read and the coins struck to his name. Islam became the court > religion. Shahmir became the legitimate author and architect of Muslim rule > in Kashmir. With the establishment of the new regime Muslim missionaries, > preachers, sayyids and saints penetrated into the Valley. Sayyid > Jalal-ud-Din, Sayyid Taj-ud-Din, Sayyid Hussain Simnani, Sayyid Masud and > Sayyid Yusuf came to Kashmir to avoid the intended massacre by Timur. Mir > Sayyid Ali Hamadani (Shah Hamadan) entered Kashmir with 700 sayyids; and, > his son, Mir Muhammad Hamadani, with 300 more. They endured in the Valley > under royal protection and disseminated the message of Islam. Mir Sayyid Ali > Hamadani (AD 1314-AD 1385) wrote in “ Zakhirat’ul Maluk ” : > > > > 1. Muslim ruler shall not allow fresh constructions of Hindu temples and > shrines for image worship. > > 2. No repair shall be executed to the existing Hindu temples and shrines. > > 3. They shall not proffer Muslim names. > > 4. They shall not ride a harnessed horse. > > 5. They shall not move about with arms. > > 6. They shall not wear rings with diamonds. > > 7. They shall not deal in or eat bacon. > > 8. They shall not exhibit idolatrous images. > > 9. They shall not built houses in the neighbourhood of Muslims. > > 10. They shall not dispose of their dead in the neighbourhood of Muslim > graveyards, nor weep or wail over their dead. > > 11. They shall not deal in or buy Muslim slaves. > > 12. No Muslim traveller shall be refused lodging in the Hindu temples and > shrines where he shall be treated as a guest for three days by non-Muslims. > > 13. No non-Muslim shall act as a spy in the Muslim state. > > 14. No problem shall be created for those non-Muslims who, of their own > will, show their readiness for Islam. > > 15. Non-Muslims shall honour Muslims and shall leave their assembly > whenever the Muslims enter the premises. > > 16. The dress of non-Muslims shall be different from that of Muslims to > distinguish themselves. > > This naturally caused animosity among the Brahmans and resulted in frail > rebellion during the reign of Shihab-ud-Din (AD 1354-1373). In order to > break the upheaval among the Hindus and to make them prostrate, the Sultan > turned his attention towards their temples. All the temples in Srinagar, > including the one at Bijbehara, were wrecked to terrorize the poor Kashmiri > Pandits. It seems that by this time, the sultans of Kashmir were perfectly > islamized as a result of their contacts, interactions and intercourses with > the sayyids. These sayyids came here as absconders in search of safe > harbours, but manoeuvered the events for their own cause and fanatic > iconoclastic zeal. The Hindus began to feel deserted and alienated in their > own land. To consolidate their rule, sultans institutionalized the “policy > of extermination” to eradicate all traces of Hinduism in any form. However, > the Kashmiri Pandits stuck to their own religion and traditions, ignoring > the > atrocities, barbarism and cruelties of the privileged ruling class. But > there were many from other castes who, either by conviction or in order to > gain royal favour, embraced Islam. These new converts were looked down upon > by the Kashmiri Pandits as traitorous and treacherous, with no loyalty for > time-honored values. This gave rise to a new class rivalry. Suha Bhatt, who > after embracing Islam took the name of Saif-ud-Din, became the leader of the > fresh converts during the reign of Sikandar (AD 1389-1413). > > Sikandar- the Butshikan, was bigoted with fanatic religious zeal to spread > Islam in the entire Valley. This fanaticism was stimulated by Mir Muhammad > Hamadani. Suha Bhatt - the convert, was appointed Prime Minister by Sikandar > and both hatched a deadly conspiracy to persecute the Hindus and enforce > upon the Nizam-i-Mustaffa. Jonaraja says, “ The Sultan forgot his kingly > duties and took delight day and night in breaking images … He broke images > of Martanda, Vishaya, Ishana, Chakrabrit and Tripureshvara …… There was no > city, no town, no village, no wood where Turushka left the temples of the > gods unbroken.” According to Hassan (History of Kashmir), “ This country > possessed from the times of Hindu rajas many temples which were like the > wonders of the world. Their workmanship was so fine and delicate that one > found himself bewildered at their sight. Sikandar, goaded by feelings of > bigotry, destroyed them and levelled them with the earth and with > the material built many mosques and khanqahs. In the first instance he > turned his attention towards the great Martand temple built by Ramdev (the > temple was rebuilt by King Lalitaditya, AD 724-760) on Mattan Kareva. For > one year he tried to demolish it, but failed. At last in sheer dismay, he > dug out stones from its base and having stored enough wood in their place, > set fire to it. The gold gilt paintings on its walls were totally destroyed > and the walls surrounding its premises were demolished. Its ruins even now > strike wonder in men’s minds. At Bijbehara, three hundred temples including > the famous Vijiveshwara temple, which was partly damaged by Shihab-ud-Din, > were destroyed. With the material of Vijiveshwara temple, a mosque was built > and on its site a khanqah, which is even now known as Vijiveshwara Khanqah.” > The stones and bricks which once configurated a marvelous and splendid > temple or monastery, now hold up mosques. Hassan further adds, “ > Sikandar meted out greatest oppression to the Hindus. It was notified in > the Valley that if a Hindu does not become a Muslim, he must leave the > country or be killed. As a result some of the Hindus fled away, some > accepted Islam and many Brahmans consented to be killed and gave their > lives. It is said that Sikandar collected, by these methods, six maunds of > sacred thread form Hindu converts and burnt them. Mir Muhammad Hamadani, who > was a witness of all this vicious brutality, barbarism and vandalism, at > last advised him to desist from the slaughter of Brahmans and told him to > impose jazia (religious tax) instead of death upon them. All the Hindu books > of learning were collected and thrown into Dal Lake and were buried beneath > stones and earth.” Sikandar issued orders that no man should wear the tilak > mark on his forehead and no woman be allowed to perform sati. He also > insisted on breaking and melting of all the gold and silver idols of gods > and coin > the metal into money. An attempt was made to destroy the caste of the > Aryan Saraswat Brahmans by force and those who resisted were subject to > heavy fines. Farishta says, “ Many of the Brahmans, rather than abandon > their religion or their county, poisoned themselves; some emigrated from > their native homes, while a few escaped the evil of banishment by becoming > Muhammedans”. To strictly enforce the Nizam-i-Mustaffa, Sikandar established > the office of Shaikh-ul-Islam. > > According to W.R. Lawrence, the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir were > given three choices-death, conversion or exile. “Many fled, many were > converted and many were killed, and it is said that this thorough monarch > (Sikandar) burnt seven maunds of sacred threads of the murdered Brahmans”. > As for the statements of Hassan and Lawrence, six maunds of sacred threads > of converts and seven maunds of murdered Pandits were burnt. The number of > people, to whom these thirteen maunds of sacred threads belonged, might have > been tremendously colossal. A mammoth number of the Saraswat Pandits also > went into exile, causing the first disastrous mass exodus of the community. > > > > 2. Second Migration: Ali Shah - the tyrant (AD 1413-1430), son of > Sikandar- the Butshikan, during his short rule of six years, carried on his > father’s 24-year tyrant reign with homicides, conversions, tyranny and > enforced jazia. Suha Bhatta – the convert, who retained the prime > ministership continued his earlier crimes and atrocities against the > Kashmiri Pandits. Jonaraja gives a graphic account of the plight of the > illustrious Kashmiri Pandits in the draconian reign of Ali Shah. He says,” > Suha Bhatta- the convert, passed the limit by levying fine, jazia, on the > twice - born. This evil-minded man forbade ceremonies and processions on the > new moon. He became envious that the Brahmans who had become fearless would > keep up their caste by going over to foreign countries, he therefore ordered > posting of squads on the roads, not to allow passage to any one without a > passport. Then as the fisherman torments fish, so this low born man > tormented the > twice-born in this country. The legendary Brahmans burnt themselves in the > flaming fire through fear of conversion. Some Brahmans killed themselves by > taking poison, some by the rope and others by drowning themselves. Others > again by falling from a precipice. The country was contaminated by hatred > and the king’s favourites could not prevent one in a thousand from > committing suicide …. A multitude of celebrated Brahmans, who prided in > their caste, fled from the country through bye-roads as the main roads were > closed. Even as men depart from this world, so did the Aryan Saraswat > Brahmans of Kashmir flee to foreign countries. The difficult countries > through which they passed, the scanty food, painful illness and the torments > of hell during life time removed from the minds of the Kashmiri Pandits the > fears of hell. Oppressed by various calamities such as encounter with the > enemy, fear of snakes, fierce heat and scanty food; many Brahmans perished > on the > way and thus obtained salvation.” This was the second miserable mass > exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits. Jonaraja calls it “ Chandh-Dandh” - violent, > cruel, brutal and horrible punishment, for the abandoned and vulnerable > Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. History repeated itself again in AD 1989-1990. > > > > 3. Third Migration: Mir Shams-ud-Din Iraqi, who visited the Saffron Valley > twice in AD 1477 and 1496, was the founder of Nurbakhshiya order (Shia sect) > in Kashmir. His mission was the vigorous propagation of his faith. So, not > contented with peaceful preachings, violent methods were employed. In this > adventure , Iraqi was helped by the homicidal creature and most dreaded > tyrant- Malik Musa Raina, a convertee, whose original name was Soma Chandra. > Not only the poor vulnerable Brahmans, but the Sunni Muslims were also > violently converted to Shia sect by murderous techniques. This dogmatic > fanaticism even crippled the Sunni ruler of Kashmir, Fateh Shah (AD > 1510-1517). A khanqah was built at Zadibal (Srinagar) by Iraqi, which became > the nucleus of Shia concentration. > > Kashmiri Pandits suffered ferociously under the instructions of > Shams-ud-Din Iraqi and Musa Raina. About 24,000 of them were forcibly > converted to Shia sect of Islam. Iraqi had even issued orders that everyday > about 1500 to 2000 Brahmans be brought to his doorsteps, remove their sacred > threads, administer Kalima to them, circumcise them and make them eat beef. > These decrees were ferociously and brutally carried out. The Hindu religious > scriptures from 7th century AD onwards and about 18 magnificent temples were > destroyed, property confiscated and ladies abused. Thousands of Brahmans > killed themselves to evade this horrific barbarism and thousands migrated to > other places, resulting in their third tragic mass exodus from the Saffron > Valley of Kashmir. Those who stayed behind were not only forced to pay > jazia, but their noses and ears were chopped off. To escape the tremendous > pain and agony, they cried. “I am not a Hindu.” > > > > 4. Fourth Migration: The greatness of Akbar lies in his magnificent and > fascinating policy of religious tolerance. Jahangir and Shah Jahan were not > so tolerant. But their religious enthusiasm cannot be termed as fanatic. > During this period, the Brahmans could perform their religious ceremonies > after paying some tribute. But the whole scenario changed with the accession > of Aurangzeb to the throne. With his bigoted fanatic and dogmatic approach, > the Kashmiri Pandits were once again made vulnerable. Iftkar Khan, the > Mughal governor of Kashmir during the reign of Aurangzeb, brutally > tyrannized over the Brahmans to such an extent that they approached Guru Teg > Bhahadur, the ninth Sikh Guru, at Anandpur in Punjab and solicited his > personal intervention with the Emperor. This ultimately led to the Guru’s > martyrdom and made Guru Gobid Singh to create the Khalsa to fight the > oppressors . Muzaffer Khan, Nassar Khan and Ibrahim Khan were other > governors of > Aurangzeb who ferociously terrorized the Kashmiri Pandits. These > celebrated scapegoats were once again forced to migrate from the land of > their origin. It was the fourth disastrous mass exodus of the Aryan Saraswat > Brahmans from Kashmir. > > > > 5. Fifth Migration: During the rule of later Mughals, Kashmir witnessed the > outbreak of the worst kind of religious intolerance. In AD 1720, Mullah > Abdul Nabi, also called Muhat Khan, a non-resident Kashmiri Muslim, was > appointed as Shaikhul Islam . In order to assert his religious authority, he > asked the Deputy Governor, Mir Ahmed Khan , to start a campaign of > persecution of the Kafirs (infidels) - as the Kashmiri Pandits were called. > In order to satisfy his satanic ego, the Mulla issued six commandments: > > > > 1. No Hindu should ride a horse, nor should a Hindu wear a shoe; > > 2. That they should not wear Jama (Mughal costume); > > 3. That they should move bare arms; > > 4. That they should not visit any garden; > > 5. That they should not have tilak mark on their foreheads; > > 6. That their children should not receive any education. > > > > But Ahmed Khan refused to execute the mischievous decree. The Mullah then > excited his followers against the Kashmiri Pandits. He established his seat > in a mosque, assumed the duties of the administrator under the title of > Dindar Khan and let loose the reign of terror. The Hindus were wickedly > tormented, their houses burnt and property looted. Hundreds of Brahmans were > killed, prostrated, maimed and humiliated. They began to run away in large > numbers and hide themselves in mountainous terrain. This was the fifth > dreadful mass exodus of the legendary Kashmiri Pandits from their mystic > motherland. Those who remained behind lived in the most horrific and > terrible conditions generated by the Mullah and his gang. > > > > 6. Sixth Migration: The Afghan rule in Kashmir (AD 1753-1819) was a period > of cruelty, homicide and anarchy. W.R. Lawrence calls it the “reign of > brutal tyranny.” The barbarous Afghans employed every wild, inhuman, > primitive, ferocious, cruel and brutal method to suppress the Kashmiri > Brahmans. A pitcher filled with ordure was placed on the head of a Pandit > and stones were pelt on it, till it broke and the unfortunate Brahman become > wet with filth. Their brutality and atrocity crossed the extreme limits when > Hindus were tied up in grass sacks, two and two, and drowned in the Dal > Lake. The victimized Hindu were forced to flee the country or were killed or > converted to Islam. There was horrible mass exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits, > sixth one, to far away places like Delhi, Allahabad, etc. Many covered the > long distances on foot. > > Hindu parents destroyed the beauty of their daughters by shaving their > heads or cutting their noses and ears to save them from degradation. Any > Muslim could jump on the back of a Pandit and take a ride. Mir Hazar - an > Afghan governor, used leather bags instead of grass sacks for the drowning > of Brahmans. Turbans and shoes were forbidden for them. The Saraswat > Brahmans of Kashmir were also forced to grow beards and tilak was > interdicted. The Afghans are now only remembered for their barbarity, > brutality, ferocity, tyranny and cruelty. They thought no more of cutting of > heads than of plucking a flower. > > > > 7. Seventh Migration: With the formation of Jammu and Kashmir State; and, > establishment of the Dogra rule in 1846, Kashmiri Pandits were imperceptibly > elbowed to the background. Administrators and officials were deputed from > Jammu region. Though they enjoyed comprehensive religious freedom and social > emancipation, political rights of the Kashmiri Brahmans were confined. On > certain occasions, they even became victims of intrigue and suspicions. The > vicious communal forces also turned their wrath against them. During the > communal disturbances of July 1931, shops and houses belonging to the > Kashmiri Brahmans were not only looted but also burnt. Three innocent Hindus > lost their lives. This communalism in the state politics aggravated and > magnified with the passage of time . It was fed for years with vicious > communal propaganda and brainwashing. > > After independence and accession of Jammu & Kashmir state to India, > Kashmiri Pandits were pushed back to the barbarous Afghan era. They were > given the sugarcoated dozes of poisonous toxics. Article 370 of Indian > constitution just reduced them to cipher and liquidated their population. > Under the pretext of economic reforms, their jagirs were confiscated and > distributed among the Muslim peasants. The administration of Shaikh Abdullah > adopted malicious and pernicious approach towards the Saraswat Brahmans of > Kashmir. They were taunted on one excuse or the other. Hindu temples were > desecrated, looted and plundered. Minor girls of the community were forced > to embrace Islam and marry the Muslim youth. > > Shaikh Abdullah tried to create “ Shaikhdom” for his dynastic rule in > Kashmir. But his dreams were shattered when he was arrested in 1953 for > anti-national activities. In 1958, he was released but detained again after > three months under the Kashmir conspiracy case. However, the case was > withdrawn in 1964 because of political reasons. But he was arrested again in > May 1965 for his subversive activities and released in January 1968. Again, > in January 1971, a ban was imposed forbidding him to enter the Jammu Kashmir > state. This restriction was lifted in 1972. > > During 1953-1974 Shaikh Abdullah characterized India as an imperialist > power endeavouring to subjugate the people of Kashmir. He asserted that the > accession of Kashmir with India was his greatest blunder for which history > will never forgive him. He also demanded the right of self determination for > the people of Muslim – dominated Kashmir, but ignored the Hindu- dominated > Jammu and Buddhist- dominated Ladakh regions. The sophist Shaikh advocated > plebiscite and unconditional withdrawal of Indian army from the Saffron > Valley. He also campaigned against the import of food grains from India and > asked people to eat potatoes grown in Kashmir. For such arguments, Shaikh > Abdullah was nick named as “Aaloo Bab” --- Feeder of Potatoes. He made > emotional solicitations that after death his body should not be buried in > the subjugated Valley, but immersed into the sacred waters of Arabian sea. > However, today his magnificent tomb stands on the banks of beautiful > Dal Lake in Srinagar and is guarded by the Indian security personnel. By > such gratuitous and conflicting statement, his secular credentials > evaporated into thin air. The prospect of disloyalty and sedition began to > haunt the Saffron Valley. Kashmiriyat switched over to political vandalism > and bigoted fundamentalism. Shaikh Abdullah desperately held Indian Prime > Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, a Kashmiri Pandit, responsible for the > shattering of his malevolent dreams in 1953. The mortified Shaikh > ambiguously decided to retaliate against the whole Pandit community in > Kashmir. In vindictiveness, he instigated his associated that while making a > choice between a Kashmiri Pandit and dreaded cobra, kill the Pandit first. A > vicious campaign of terror was launched against the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans > of Kashmir. They were refused entry to government jobs and institutions of > higher learning. Besides hurling strong statement against the Government of > India and Kashmiri > Pandits, the Shaikh derided that the whole lot of Indian army cannot save > the Hindus in Kashmir against the malevolence of Muslims. Farooq Abdullah > also employed the same approach towards the crumbled Pandits when his > brother-in-law, Gulshah, seized the chief ministership in 1984.The > reactionary leaders- Afzal Beg, Maulvi Farooq, Mohi-ud-Din Kara and Maulana > Masoodi; ignored the very existence of Kashmiri Pandits during their > political adventurism. The Kashmiri Pandits were made to pay for every move > on the political chessboard in Kashmir because they represented the > pseudo-secularism, incognito- socialism and flowering- democracy of India. > They were scolded and emotionally hurt in the Afghan fashion. > > But then the whole political scenario in Kashmir took a dramatic turn in > 1974, when Indira-Shaikh accord was signed by virtue of which the Shaikh > became the Chief Minister of the State after the lapse of 22 years. Ignoring > the great expectations he had created among the people in Kashmir and his > vigorous campaign for plebiscite, the sophist Shaikh began to speak the > language of Indian nationalism, democracy, socialism and secularism. The > slogans of plebiscite, self-determination and independent Kashmir melted > away. But the Hate- India virus, infused by him into the blood of the Muslim > youth in Kashmir, was exploited by other corrupt self-styled politicians for > their own interests from time to time. A vacuum was created because the > people were betrayed disillusioned, politically raped and left in wilderness > by their own leaders. > > The programmes and policies of Bakshi, Sadiq, Qasim, Farooq and Gulshah > were also damaging for the Kashmiri Pandits. They were continuously haunted > by antagonistic, hostile and rebellious elements. Mufti Syed is even > believed to be responsible for the anti-Hindu communal riots of 1986, when > cows were slaughtered and temples destroyed in Anantnag district. From > 1947-1986 about four lac Kashmiri Pandits silently migrated from Kashmir. > Hypocritical atrocities and criminal ignorances of political leaders were > responsible for these development. Pakistan, to avenge the defeat of > Bangladesh, blatantly sponsored the violence and terrorism in the Valley, > resulting in the turmoil of 1989-90. The then governor of Jammu and > Kashmir, Jagmohan, wrote a detailed letter to the former Prime Minister, > Rajiv Gandhi , on April 21,1990, endorsing the alarming signals. But > cowardly Indian leadership was still unconcerned. > > “Aay Zalimu, Aay Kafiroo, > > Kashmir Hamara Choudh Dou” > > > > “Bharat Kay Aiwanu Ko > > Aag Lagado, Aag Lagado” > > > > The final assault on the Kashmiri Pandits started with these slogans. > Barbarous terrorists from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Sudan and even > Saudi Arabia penetrated into the Saffron Valley. Brutal, wild and barbarous > techniques were employed to hound and kill the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of > Kashmir. Even the helpless ladies were not spared. Sarla Bhat, a nurse in > Soura Medical Institute, was abducted on 19th April, 1990, by JKLF militants > who repeatedly gang-raped her and eventually killed her on 25th April. Girja > Tikoo, a teacher from Bandipur, was kidnapped, raped and eventually shred to > pieces by a saw mill on 4th June, 1990. Bimla Braroo from the Nai Sarak, > Srinagar, who along with her daughter, Archana, was raped in the presence of > her husband, Sohanlal, before all the three were killed on 31st March, 1992. > There are dozens of such brutal instances. Even wicked Afghans will be > feeling sorry in their graves for the sanatic holocaust of the legendary > Kashmiri Pandits. > > The barbarous murder of hundreds of innocent Brahmans of Kashmir caused > their seventh and final agonizing mass exodus from the Valley. This was the > final knock down of ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Kashmiri Pandits. > The mass massacres at Sangrampora (1997), Udhampore (1997), Prankot (1998), > Wandhama (1998) and Nadimarg (2003) were the follow up cleansing operations. > Pandits in Kashmir dwindled from 10% in 1947 to fewer than 5% in 1989 and to > less than 1% today. The pretended world bodies, contaminated human rights > organizations, pseudo-secularists, self-styled leaders, so-called policy > makers, tainted political parties and slack bureaucracy have failed to > express serious concern at this great human tragedy. > > > DANSE MACABRE is still going on. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 12:01:41 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:01:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Natgrid will kick in from May 2011. Is the big brother threat for real? Message-ID: "Indeed, in a pending case about invasion of privacy, the Delhi High Court observed: “We have no clear definition of what is meant by ‘invasion of privacy’ within the RTI Act.” Indeed, we have no equivalent of the UK’s Data Protection Act, 1998, Section 2 (Sensitive Personal Data), which reads as follows: In this Act, “sensitive personal data” means information such as: • The racial or ethnic origin of the subject • His/her political opinions • His/her religious beliefs or other beliefs of a similar nature • Whether he/she is a member of a trade union • His/her physical or mental health condition • His/her sexual life • The commission or alleged commission by him/her of any offence • Any proceedings for any offence committed or alleged to have been committed by him/her, the disposal of such proceedings or the court sentencing. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main47.asp?filename=Ne131110Natgrid_will.asp From samvitr at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 12:43:17 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:43:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz: A road better not traveled Message-ID: A very interesting read. It talks about the road that radicalization has taken. Most of us, inspite of our religion would love to say khuda hafiz but the fanatics now want us to change the way we address each other. Sad! Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz Nadeem F. PARACHA The first time Allah Hafiz was used in public was in 1985 when a famous TV host, a frequent sight on PTV during the Zia era, signed off her otherwise secular show with a firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ As most Pakistanis over the ages of six and seven would remember, before the now ubiquitous ‘Allah Hafiz’ came ‘Khuda Hafiz’. The immediate history of the demise of Khuda Hafiz can be traced back to a mere six to seven years in the past. It was in Karachi some time in 2002 when a series of banners started appearing across Sharea Faisal. Each banner had two messages. The first one advised Pakistani Muslims to stop addressing God by the informal ‘Tu’ and instead address him as ‘Aap’ (the respectful way of saying ‘you’ in Urdu). The second message advised Pakistanis to replace the term Khuda Hafiz with Allah Hafiz. The banners were produced and installed by Islamic organisations associated with a famous mosque in Karachi. Ever since the 1980s, this institution had been a bastion of leading puritanical doctrines of Islam. Many of the institution’s scholars were, in one way or the other, also related to the Islamic intelligentsia sympathetic to the Taliban version of political Islam and of other similar fundamentalist outfits. However, one just cannot study the Allah Hafiz phenomenon through what happened in 2002. This phenomenon has a direct link with the disastrous history of cultural casualties Pakistan has steadily been suffering for over thirty years now. Beyond the 2002 banner incident, whose two messages were then duly taken up by a series of Tableeghi Jamaat personnel and as well as trendsetting living room Islamic evangelists, a lot of groundwork had already taken place to culturally convert the largely pluralistic and religiously tolerant milieu of Pakistan into a singular concentration of Muslims following the “correct” version of Islam. The overriding reasons for this were foremost political, as General Ziaul Haq and his politico-religious cohorts went about setting up madressahs in an attempt to harden the otherwise softer strain of faith that a majority of Pakistanis followed so they could be prepared for the grand ‘Afghan jihad’ against the atheistic Soviet Union with a somewhat literalist and highly politicised version of Islam. The above process not only politically radicalised sections of Pakistani society, its impact was apparent on culture at large as well. For example, as bars and cinemas started closing down, young men and women, who had found space in these places to simply meet up, were forced to move to shady cafes, restaurants and parks which, by the mid-1980s, too started to be visited by cops and fanatical moral squads called the ‘Allah Tigers’, who ran around harassing couples in these spaces, scolding them for going against Islam, or, on most occasions, simply extorting money from the shaken couples through blackmail. Then, getting a blanket ideological and judicial cover by the Zia dictatorship, the cops started to harass almost any couple riding a motorbike, a car or simply sitting at the beach. Without even asking whether the woman was the guy’s sister or mother (on many occasions they were!), the cops asked for the couples’ marriage certificate! Failing to produce one (which in most cases they couldn’t), hefty sums of money were extorted as the couples were threatened to be sent to jail under the dreadful Hudood Ordinances. The same one the Musharraf government eventually scrapped. Some of these horrendous practices were duly stopped during the Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif governments in the 1990s, but the cat had long been set among the pigeons. Encouraged by their initial successes in the 1980s, Islamist culture-evangelists became a lot more aggressive in the 1990s. Drawing room and TV evangelists went about attempting to construct a “true” Islamic society, and at least one of their prescriptions was to replace the commonly used Khuda Hafiz with Allah Hafiz. This was done because these crusading men and women believed that once they had convinced numerous Pakistanis to follow the faith by adorning a long beard and hijab, the words Khuda Hafiz would not seem appropriate coming out from the mouths of such Islamic-looking folks. They believed that Khuda can mean any God, whereas the Muslims’ God was Allah. Some observers suggest that since many non-Muslims residing in Pakistan too had started to use Khuda Hafiz, this incensed the crusaders who thought that non-Muslim Pakistanis were trying to adopt Islamic gestures only to pollute them. The first time Allah Hafiz was used in public was in 1985 when a famous TV host, a frequent sight on PTV during the Zia era, signed off her otherwise secular show with a firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ However, even though some Islamic preachers continued the trend in the 1990s, it did not trickle down to the mainstream until the early 2000s. As society continued to collapse inwards — especially the urban middle class — the term Allah Hafiz started being used as if Pakistanis had always said Allah Hafiz. So much so that today, if you are to bid farewell by saying Khuda Hafiz, you will either generate curious facial responses, or worse, get a short lecture on why you should always say Allah Hafiz instead — a clear case of glorified cultural isolationism to ‘protect’ one’s comfort zone of myopia from the influential and uncontrollable trends of universal pluralism? I’m afraid this is the case. http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-nadeem-f-paracha-allah-hafiz-to-khuda-hafiz-hs-07 From iram at sarai.net Tue Nov 9 12:53:20 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:23:20 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] in the air: sound installation by jason kahn Message-ID: <4CD8F6E8.9070809@sarai.net> Pro Helvetia - Swiss Arts Council & Crafts Museum, New Delhi invite you to the opening of *In the Air* ** a sound installation by *Jason Kahn*, a sound artist and musician from Switzerland on Friday 12 November 2010 at 3:30 pm at Bhuta Gallery, Crafts Museum, Bhairon Road, Pragati Maidan, New Delhi 110001 In the Air The piece is a sound installation of a body of radios distributed more or less evenly to fill the installation space. By moving through the exhibition the visitor will experience rich variations in phasing occurring between the radios and the various acoustical reflections that are cast by static waves. *Jason Kahn *Jason Kahn is a sound artist and a musician whose work is a mix of electronic and acoustic sound sources, produced with minimal percussion, a laptop or an analogue synthesizer. In recent years he has created several sound installations using field recordings and sound waves as concrete forms. He has held exhibitions and concerts in museums, galleries, art spaces, festivals and clubs throughout Europe, North and South America, Australia, Egypt, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Japan, Korea, Lebanon, Mexico, New Zealand, Russia, Turkey and South Africa. He has also produced sound pieces for film, dance and radio. In 1998 he started the label ‘cut’. Jason Kahn is in Delhi on an Artist-in-Residence programme at SARAI from 1 - 30 November 2010. The residency is supported by Pro Helvetia New Delhi and SARAI. The installation in the Bhuta Gallery by Jason Kahn is coordinated by* Ish S*, an Indian sound artist and musician who had a brief research residency in Zürich, Switzerland in June 2010. Web links: http://cut.fm/ http://jasonkahn.dfekt.org/ http://harmonyseries.blogspot.com/2009/08/jason-kahn.html From iram at sarai.net Tue Nov 9 12:59:01 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:29:01 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] opening>> City as Studio: EXB 10.05 Message-ID: <4CD8F83D.30105@sarai.net> OPENING>> City as Studio: EXB 10.05 Saturday, November 13 · 6:00pm - 9:00pm Sarai CSDS 29 Rajpur Road (5 min walk from the Civil Lines metro station) Delhi The City as Studio exhibition platform is an artist run space for emerging and experimental contemporary art in the heart of Delhi. Rife with curious energy, open to new practices, sharp and finely tuned to the frequencies of a rapidly changing world and a transforming city. City as Studio is a space hospitable to all those who are willing to re-define art and life, speculate, fantasize, play and take the pulse of a critical time. The platform is closely associated with the 'City as Studio' programme for artists and practitioners at Sarai and committed to showcasing new work and processes on a regular basis. Exhibition Timings: 11 am and 5 pm, Monday to Friday. The exhibition runs till December 4 , 2010. Artists Lionel Dentan Tanya Goel Jason Kahn Siddhartha Karawal Pradip Saha Ish Shehrawat Also presenting: Jason Kahn's Unheard Delhi - Sound piece exploring Delhi's sonic topographies and social spaces through environmental recordings made during the artists residency with Sarai CSDS/ Pro Hevetia (November 2010) More Information at http://jasonkahn.net/ And 'electro-out ' an electro-Acoustic music performance by Ish (edGeCut/ Sound Reasons records) and Lionel Dentan. The music will have shades of Jazz and Indian melodies layered with experimental electronica. Produced at Sarai Media Lab, Sarai- CSDS, Delhi September 2010 From subasrik at yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 13:26:04 2010 From: subasrik at yahoo.com (Subasri Krishnan) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 23:56:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: IHS Institute on 'Re-Imagining the World-Class City' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <184466.37983.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Dear All,   The IIHS is pleased to announce an Institute on ‘Re-Imagining the World-Class City’ to be held in Bengaluru from 3 to 9 January 2011. We would be grateful if you were to nominate/circulate this to appropriate candidates. This week-long initiative will bring together theoretical debates and existing practices, enabling an interdisciplinary exploration of the systems, processes and values that drive the development of these cities. The Institute will be conducted by an inter-disciplinary Indian and international faculty of academics and practitioners for the selected 40 applicants. Applicants should either have completed or be currently pursuing Bachelors or Masters programmes areas any discipline. The Institute is also open to young professionals from relevant fields with no more than five years of work experience. Please click here for details. Please note that the deadline for receiving applications is 21st November 2010.  With best wishes,    Aromar Revi Director From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 14:11:25 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 00:41:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz: A road better not traveled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <672637.86945.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Samvit   This was shared on sarai on 24th May 2009 http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-May/019892.html   A connected article in two parts which might interest you, was shared on 31st May 2009. http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-May/019968.html     "Khuda Hafiz versus Allah Hafiz: a critique" By Mahfuzur Rahman   http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15Mar04-Print-Edition/0103200455.htm   http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31Mar04-Print-Edition/1603200449.htm     Kshmendra   --- On Tue, 11/9/10, Samvit wrote: From: Samvit Subject: [Reader-list] Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz: A road better not traveled To: "reader-list" Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 12:43 PM A very interesting read. It talks about the road that radicalization has taken. Most of us, inspite of our religion would love to say khuda hafiz but the fanatics now want us to change the way we address each other. Sad! Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz Nadeem F. PARACHA The first time Allah Hafiz was used in public was in 1985 when a famous TV host, a frequent sight on PTV during the Zia era, signed off her otherwise secular show with a firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ As most Pakistanis over the ages of six and seven would remember, before the now ubiquitous ‘Allah Hafiz’ came ‘Khuda Hafiz’. The immediate history of the demise of Khuda Hafiz can be traced back to a mere six to seven years in the past. It was in Karachi some time in 2002 when a series of banners started appearing across Sharea Faisal. Each banner had two messages. The first one advised Pakistani Muslims to stop addressing God by the informal ‘Tu’ and instead address him as ‘Aap’ (the respectful way of saying ‘you’ in Urdu). The second message advised Pakistanis to replace the term Khuda Hafiz with Allah Hafiz. The banners were produced and installed by Islamic organisations associated with a famous mosque in Karachi. Ever since the 1980s, this institution had been a bastion of leading puritanical doctrines of Islam. Many of the institution’s scholars were, in one way or the other, also related to the Islamic intelligentsia sympathetic to the Taliban version of political Islam and of other similar fundamentalist outfits. However, one just cannot study the Allah Hafiz phenomenon through what happened in 2002. This phenomenon has a direct link with the disastrous history of cultural casualties Pakistan has steadily been suffering for over thirty years now. Beyond the 2002 banner incident, whose two messages were then duly taken up by a series of Tableeghi Jamaat personnel and as well as trendsetting living room Islamic evangelists, a lot of groundwork had already taken place to culturally convert the largely pluralistic and religiously tolerant milieu of Pakistan into a singular concentration of Muslims following the “correct” version of Islam. The overriding reasons for this were foremost political, as General Ziaul Haq and his politico-religious cohorts went about setting up madressahs in an attempt to harden the otherwise softer strain of faith that a majority of Pakistanis followed so they could be prepared for the grand ‘Afghan jihad’ against the atheistic Soviet Union with a somewhat literalist and highly politicised version of Islam. The above process not only politically radicalised sections of Pakistani society, its impact was apparent on culture at large as well. For example, as bars and cinemas started closing down, young men and women, who had found space in these places to simply meet up, were forced to move to shady cafes, restaurants and parks which, by the mid-1980s, too started to be visited by cops and fanatical moral squads called the ‘Allah Tigers’, who ran around harassing couples in these spaces, scolding them for going against Islam, or, on most occasions, simply extorting money from the shaken couples through blackmail. Then, getting a blanket ideological and judicial cover by the Zia dictatorship, the cops started to harass almost any couple riding a motorbike, a car or simply sitting at the beach. Without even asking whether the woman was the guy’s sister or mother (on many occasions they were!), the cops asked for the couples’ marriage certificate! Failing to produce one (which in most cases they couldn’t), hefty sums of money were extorted as the couples were threatened to be sent to jail under the dreadful Hudood Ordinances. The same one the Musharraf government eventually scrapped. Some of these horrendous practices were duly stopped during the Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif governments in the 1990s, but the cat had long been set among the pigeons. Encouraged by their initial successes in the 1980s, Islamist culture-evangelists became a lot more aggressive in the 1990s. Drawing room and TV evangelists went about attempting to construct a “true” Islamic society, and at least one of their prescriptions was to replace the commonly used Khuda Hafiz with Allah Hafiz. This was done because these crusading men and women believed that once they had convinced numerous Pakistanis to follow the faith by adorning a long beard and hijab, the words Khuda Hafiz would not seem appropriate coming out from the mouths of such Islamic-looking folks. They believed that Khuda can mean any God, whereas the Muslims’ God was Allah. Some observers suggest that since many non-Muslims residing in Pakistan too had started to use Khuda Hafiz, this incensed the crusaders who thought that non-Muslim Pakistanis were trying to adopt Islamic gestures only to pollute them. The first time Allah Hafiz was used in public was in 1985 when a famous TV host, a frequent sight on PTV during the Zia era, signed off her otherwise secular show with a firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ However, even though some Islamic preachers continued the trend in the 1990s, it did not trickle down to the mainstream until the early 2000s. As society continued to collapse inwards — especially the urban middle class — the term Allah Hafiz started being used as if Pakistanis had always said Allah Hafiz. So much so that today, if you are to bid farewell by saying Khuda Hafiz, you will either generate curious facial responses, or worse, get a short lecture on why you should always say Allah Hafiz instead — a clear case of glorified cultural isolationism to ‘protect’ one’s comfort zone of myopia from the influential and uncontrollable trends of universal pluralism? I’m afraid this is the case. http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-nadeem-f-paracha-allah-hafiz-to-khuda-hafiz-hs-07 _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From samvitr at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 14:28:16 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:28:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz: A road better not traveled In-Reply-To: <672637.86945.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <672637.86945.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry Kshmendra, I didn't realize that. This thought was triggered by a program that I watched last night on NDTV India. The anchor, Vinod Dua, who is from Dera Ghazi Khan, talked about it in detail. -Samvit On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Samvit > > This was shared on sarai on 24th May 2009 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-May/019892.html > > A connected article in two parts which might interest you, was shared on > 31st May 2009. > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-May/019968.html > > > "Khuda Hafiz versus Allah Hafiz: a critique" By Mahfuzur Rahman > > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15Mar04-Print-Edition/0103200455.htm > > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31Mar04-Print-Edition/1603200449.htm > > > Kshmendra > > > --- On *Tue, 11/9/10, Samvit * wrote: > > > From: Samvit > Subject: [Reader-list] Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz: A road better not > traveled > To: "reader-list" > Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 12:43 PM > > A very interesting read. It talks about the road that radicalization > has taken. Most of us, inspite of our religion would love to say khuda > hafiz but the fanatics now want us to change the way we address each > other. Sad! > > Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz > > Nadeem F. PARACHA > > > The first time Allah Hafiz was used in public was in 1985 when a > famous TV host, a frequent sight on PTV during the Zia era, signed off > her otherwise secular show with a firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ > > As most Pakistanis over the ages of six and seven would remember, > before the now ubiquitous ‘Allah Hafiz’ came ‘Khuda Hafiz’. > > The immediate history of the demise of Khuda Hafiz can be traced back > to a mere six to seven years in the past. It was in Karachi some time > in 2002 when a series of banners started appearing across Sharea > Faisal. Each banner had two messages. The first one advised Pakistani > Muslims to stop addressing God by the informal ‘Tu’ and instead > address him as ‘Aap’ (the respectful way of saying ‘you’ in Urdu). The > second message advised Pakistanis to replace the term Khuda Hafiz with > Allah Hafiz. > > The banners were produced and installed by Islamic organisations > associated with a famous mosque in Karachi. Ever since the 1980s, this > institution had been a bastion of leading puritanical doctrines of > Islam. Many of the institution’s scholars were, in one way or the > other, also related to the Islamic intelligentsia sympathetic to the > Taliban version of political Islam and of other similar fundamentalist > outfits. > > > However, one just cannot study the Allah Hafiz phenomenon through what > happened in 2002. This phenomenon has a direct link with the > disastrous history of cultural casualties Pakistan has steadily been > suffering for over thirty years now. Beyond the 2002 banner incident, > whose two messages were then duly taken up by a series of Tableeghi > Jamaat personnel and as well as trendsetting living room Islamic > evangelists, a lot of groundwork had already taken place to culturally > convert the largely pluralistic and religiously tolerant milieu of > Pakistan into a singular concentration of Muslims following the > “correct” version of Islam. > > > The overriding reasons for this were foremost political, as General > Ziaul Haq and his politico-religious cohorts went about setting up > madressahs in an attempt to harden the otherwise softer strain of > faith that a majority of Pakistanis followed so they could be prepared > for the grand ‘Afghan jihad’ against the atheistic Soviet Union with a > somewhat literalist and highly politicised version of Islam. The above > process not only politically radicalised sections of Pakistani > society, its impact was apparent on culture at large as well. > > > For example, as bars and cinemas started closing down, young men and > women, who had found space in these places to simply meet up, were > forced to move to shady cafes, restaurants and parks which, by the > mid-1980s, too started to be visited by cops and fanatical moral > squads called the ‘Allah Tigers’, who ran around harassing couples in > these spaces, scolding them for going against Islam, or, on most > occasions, simply extorting money from the shaken couples through > blackmail. > > > Then, getting a blanket ideological and judicial cover by the Zia > dictatorship, the cops started to harass almost any couple riding a > motorbike, a car or simply sitting at the beach. Without even asking > whether the woman was the guy’s sister or mother (on many occasions > they were!), the cops asked for the couples’ marriage certificate! > Failing to produce one (which in most cases they couldn’t), hefty sums > of money were extorted as the couples were threatened to be sent to > jail under the dreadful Hudood Ordinances. The same one the Musharraf > government eventually scrapped. > > > Some of these horrendous practices were duly stopped during the > Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif governments in the 1990s, but the cat > had long been set among the pigeons. Encouraged by their initial > successes in the 1980s, Islamist culture-evangelists became a lot more > aggressive in the 1990s. Drawing room and TV evangelists went about > attempting to construct a “true” Islamic society, and at least one of > their prescriptions was to replace the commonly used Khuda Hafiz with > Allah Hafiz. > > > This was done because these crusading men and women believed that once > they had convinced numerous Pakistanis to follow the faith by adorning > a long beard and hijab, the words Khuda Hafiz would not seem > appropriate coming out from the mouths of such Islamic-looking folks. > They believed that Khuda can mean any God, whereas the Muslims’ God > was Allah. Some observers suggest that since many non-Muslims residing > in Pakistan too had started to use Khuda Hafiz, this incensed the > crusaders who thought that non-Muslim Pakistanis were trying to adopt > Islamic gestures only to pollute them. The first time Allah Hafiz was > used in public was in 1985 when a famous TV host, a frequent sight on > PTV during the Zia era, signed off her otherwise secular show with a > firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ However, even though some Islamic preachers > continued the trend in the 1990s, it did not trickle down to the > mainstream until the early 2000s. As society continued to collapse > inwards — especially the urban middle class — the term Allah Hafiz > started being used as if Pakistanis had always said Allah Hafiz. > > > So much so that today, if you are to bid farewell by saying Khuda > Hafiz, you will either generate curious facial responses, or worse, > get a short lecture on why you should always say Allah Hafiz instead — > a clear case of glorified cultural isolationism to ‘protect’ one’s > comfort zone of myopia from the influential and uncontrollable trends > of universal pluralism? > > > I’m afraid this is the case. > > > http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-nadeem-f-paracha-allah-hafiz-to-khuda-hafiz-hs-07 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From samvitr at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 14:28:16 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:28:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz: A road better not traveled In-Reply-To: <672637.86945.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <672637.86945.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry Kshmendra, I didn't realize that. This thought was triggered by a program that I watched last night on NDTV India. The anchor, Vinod Dua, who is from Dera Ghazi Khan, talked about it in detail. -Samvit On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Samvit > > This was shared on sarai on 24th May 2009 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-May/019892.html > > A connected article in two parts which might interest you, was shared on > 31st May 2009. > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-May/019968.html > > > "Khuda Hafiz versus Allah Hafiz: a critique" By Mahfuzur Rahman > > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15Mar04-Print-Edition/0103200455.htm > > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31Mar04-Print-Edition/1603200449.htm > > > Kshmendra > > > --- On *Tue, 11/9/10, Samvit * wrote: > > > From: Samvit > Subject: [Reader-list] Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz: A road better not > traveled > To: "reader-list" > Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 12:43 PM > > A very interesting read. It talks about the road that radicalization > has taken. Most of us, inspite of our religion would love to say khuda > hafiz but the fanatics now want us to change the way we address each > other. Sad! > > Allah Hafiz to Khuda Hafiz > > Nadeem F. PARACHA > > > The first time Allah Hafiz was used in public was in 1985 when a > famous TV host, a frequent sight on PTV during the Zia era, signed off > her otherwise secular show with a firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ > > As most Pakistanis over the ages of six and seven would remember, > before the now ubiquitous ‘Allah Hafiz’ came ‘Khuda Hafiz’. > > The immediate history of the demise of Khuda Hafiz can be traced back > to a mere six to seven years in the past. It was in Karachi some time > in 2002 when a series of banners started appearing across Sharea > Faisal. Each banner had two messages. The first one advised Pakistani > Muslims to stop addressing God by the informal ‘Tu’ and instead > address him as ‘Aap’ (the respectful way of saying ‘you’ in Urdu). The > second message advised Pakistanis to replace the term Khuda Hafiz with > Allah Hafiz. > > The banners were produced and installed by Islamic organisations > associated with a famous mosque in Karachi. Ever since the 1980s, this > institution had been a bastion of leading puritanical doctrines of > Islam. Many of the institution’s scholars were, in one way or the > other, also related to the Islamic intelligentsia sympathetic to the > Taliban version of political Islam and of other similar fundamentalist > outfits. > > > However, one just cannot study the Allah Hafiz phenomenon through what > happened in 2002. This phenomenon has a direct link with the > disastrous history of cultural casualties Pakistan has steadily been > suffering for over thirty years now. Beyond the 2002 banner incident, > whose two messages were then duly taken up by a series of Tableeghi > Jamaat personnel and as well as trendsetting living room Islamic > evangelists, a lot of groundwork had already taken place to culturally > convert the largely pluralistic and religiously tolerant milieu of > Pakistan into a singular concentration of Muslims following the > “correct” version of Islam. > > > The overriding reasons for this were foremost political, as General > Ziaul Haq and his politico-religious cohorts went about setting up > madressahs in an attempt to harden the otherwise softer strain of > faith that a majority of Pakistanis followed so they could be prepared > for the grand ‘Afghan jihad’ against the atheistic Soviet Union with a > somewhat literalist and highly politicised version of Islam. The above > process not only politically radicalised sections of Pakistani > society, its impact was apparent on culture at large as well. > > > For example, as bars and cinemas started closing down, young men and > women, who had found space in these places to simply meet up, were > forced to move to shady cafes, restaurants and parks which, by the > mid-1980s, too started to be visited by cops and fanatical moral > squads called the ‘Allah Tigers’, who ran around harassing couples in > these spaces, scolding them for going against Islam, or, on most > occasions, simply extorting money from the shaken couples through > blackmail. > > > Then, getting a blanket ideological and judicial cover by the Zia > dictatorship, the cops started to harass almost any couple riding a > motorbike, a car or simply sitting at the beach. Without even asking > whether the woman was the guy’s sister or mother (on many occasions > they were!), the cops asked for the couples’ marriage certificate! > Failing to produce one (which in most cases they couldn’t), hefty sums > of money were extorted as the couples were threatened to be sent to > jail under the dreadful Hudood Ordinances. The same one the Musharraf > government eventually scrapped. > > > Some of these horrendous practices were duly stopped during the > Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif governments in the 1990s, but the cat > had long been set among the pigeons. Encouraged by their initial > successes in the 1980s, Islamist culture-evangelists became a lot more > aggressive in the 1990s. Drawing room and TV evangelists went about > attempting to construct a “true” Islamic society, and at least one of > their prescriptions was to replace the commonly used Khuda Hafiz with > Allah Hafiz. > > > This was done because these crusading men and women believed that once > they had convinced numerous Pakistanis to follow the faith by adorning > a long beard and hijab, the words Khuda Hafiz would not seem > appropriate coming out from the mouths of such Islamic-looking folks. > They believed that Khuda can mean any God, whereas the Muslims’ God > was Allah. Some observers suggest that since many non-Muslims residing > in Pakistan too had started to use Khuda Hafiz, this incensed the > crusaders who thought that non-Muslim Pakistanis were trying to adopt > Islamic gestures only to pollute them. The first time Allah Hafiz was > used in public was in 1985 when a famous TV host, a frequent sight on > PTV during the Zia era, signed off her otherwise secular show with a > firm ‘Allah Hafiz.’ However, even though some Islamic preachers > continued the trend in the 1990s, it did not trickle down to the > mainstream until the early 2000s. As society continued to collapse > inwards — especially the urban middle class — the term Allah Hafiz > started being used as if Pakistanis had always said Allah Hafiz. > > > So much so that today, if you are to bid farewell by saying Khuda > Hafiz, you will either generate curious facial responses, or worse, > get a short lecture on why you should always say Allah Hafiz instead — > a clear case of glorified cultural isolationism to ‘protect’ one’s > comfort zone of myopia from the influential and uncontrollable trends > of universal pluralism? > > > I’m afraid this is the case. > > > http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-nadeem-f-paracha-allah-hafiz-to-khuda-hafiz-hs-07 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From kiccovich at yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 15:25:52 2010 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 01:55:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Song of a Radical by M. Nazir Ali Message-ID: <38330.48762.qm@web113210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I must address myself to the material need - like hunger, pain and torture, and learn to feel the bullet’s geometric race through the body. The wind that plays upon my beard, the knife that draws a line of blood are important beyond all the rants of the saints. Every tongue of flame, each round pebble, is more material than Marx himself. If narrate I must a tale of the spirit it must’ve the hard contours of a basic desire: like lust or thirst. francesca recchia kiccovich at yahoo.com it +39 338 166 3648 From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 15:38:13 2010 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 15:38:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UID outsourced to US ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is the Breaking News! *ATTN: MEDIA* Hope that this piece of information will be popularized along with all other Obama visit related stories. Anyways, Bhopal- Warren Anderson issue was obfuscated in the Obama visit related stories. Kindly ensure that this story is also not Killed like the Bhopal. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: R. Ramakumar Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 2:08 PM Subject: [FEC] UID outsourced to US ! To: Friends Here is an extaordinary piece of information. As part of the Obama visit, there is a series of White House policy notes, in the White House website. Here, as part of 'National Export Initiative: India US Transactions', the White House lists UID project as a major aspect of collaboration. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/11/06/fact-sheet-national-export-initiative-us-india-transactions. The relevant para is this: "*The Unique Identification Project**: *L-1 Identity Solutions, > headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, and another U.S.-headquartered > company, lead two of the three vendor consortia, which have been > prequalified by the Unique Identity Authority of India for the first phase > of an effort to register Indian residents with a 12-digit unique number > using biometric identifiers. Unprecedented in scale, seeking to register > 1.2 billion Indian residents, the Unique Identification program aims to > enhance delivery of government services in India." > Also, see http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2010/11/09/stories/2010110953060300.htm. This is the speech of Pranab Mukherjee at a conference on 'India-US: An agenda for Co-Creation'. Here the report says: "Mr Mukherjee outlined four specific areas where American companies can participate in the financial inclusion process... Second, the Minister said, innovation is required in design of software to run these devices and enable seamless connectivity, customer friendly software and privacy protection measures. “Cyber crimes, misuse of customer information and identity theft need to be prevented through available and affordable software,” he said..." Why do you need this at an India-US forum, when this is precisely you want UID to do? It is becoming clear that the ramifications of the project are far wider than many thought. Please circulate this widely and get as much protests as possible. Ramakumar -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "FEC-Fourth Estate Critique" group. To post to this group, send email to fourth-estate-critique at googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to fourth-estate-critique+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/fourth-estate-critique?hl=en. -- "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 16:01:52 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 16:01:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UID outsourced to US ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Anivar, Thanks for this piece of news! I was just wondering if there is any source where one can find a more comprehensive review of this UID in general and the issue in particular? I will be thankful for any information. I have a feeling that this project is going to be another big scandal..given its scale! thanks and regards Rajkamal On 11/9/10, Anivar Aravind wrote: > This is the Breaking News! > *ATTN: MEDIA* > Hope that this piece of information will be popularized along with all other > Obama visit related stories. > Anyways, Bhopal- Warren Anderson issue was obfuscated in the Obama visit > related stories. > Kindly ensure that this story is also not Killed like the Bhopal. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: R. Ramakumar > Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 2:08 PM > Subject: [FEC] UID outsourced to US ! > To: > > > Friends > > Here is an extaordinary piece of information. > > As part of the Obama visit, there is a series of White House policy notes, > in the White House website. Here, as part of 'National Export Initiative: > India US Transactions', the White House lists UID project as a major aspect > of collaboration. > > See > http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/11/06/fact-sheet-national-export-initiative-us-india-transactions. > The relevant para is this: > > "*The Unique Identification Project**: *L-1 Identity Solutions, >> headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, and another U.S.-headquartered >> company, lead two of the three vendor consortia, which have been >> prequalified by the Unique Identity Authority of India for the first phase >> of an effort to register Indian residents with a 12-digit unique number >> using biometric identifiers. Unprecedented in scale, seeking to register >> 1.2 billion Indian residents, the Unique Identification program aims to >> enhance delivery of government services in India." >> > > Also, see > http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2010/11/09/stories/2010110953060300.htm. > This is the speech of Pranab Mukherjee at a conference on 'India-US: An > agenda for Co-Creation'. Here the report says: > > "Mr Mukherjee outlined four specific areas where American companies can > participate in the financial inclusion process... > > Second, the Minister said, innovation is required in design of software to > run these devices and enable seamless connectivity, customer friendly > software and privacy protection measures. > > “Cyber crimes, misuse of customer information and identity theft need to be > prevented through available and affordable software,” he said..." > > > Why do you need this at an India-US forum, when this is precisely you want > UID to do? > > It is becoming clear that the ramifications of the project are far wider > than many thought. Please circulate this widely and get as much protests as > possible. > > Ramakumar > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "FEC-Fourth Estate Critique" group. > To post to this group, send email to fourth-estate-critique at googlegroups.com > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > fourth-estate-critique+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/fourth-estate-critique?hl=en. > > > > -- > "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' > algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise > information." - Donald Knuth > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajkamal From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 16:05:35 2010 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 16:05:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UID outsourced to US ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > Dear Anivar, > > Thanks for this piece of news! I was just wondering if there is any > source where one can find a more comprehensive review of this UID in > general and the issue in particular? > > Check the articles collected at http://questioningaadhaar.blogspot.com/ Also you can take a look on UID related articles collected at http://aadhararticles.blogspot.com/ > I will be thankful for any information. > > I have a feeling that this project is going to be another big > scandal..given its scale! > > thanks and regards > Rajkamal > > From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 17:41:02 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 04:11:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Kashmir=E2=80=99s_Fruits_of_Discord_=28or?= =?utf-8?q?_a_discordant_arundhati_roy=3F=29?= Message-ID: <60870.31094.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> that arundhati roy has lost a sense of reality was being suspected for quite some time and became evident in her statement after the protest by the bjp mahila wing at her house on 31/10/10   her latest article  in nyt only confirms it   she writes "I wasn’t arrested that night. Instead, in what is becoming a common political strategy, officials outsourced their displeasure to the mob. A few days after I returned home, the women’s wing of the Bharatiya Janata Party (the right-wing Hindu nationalist opposition) staged a demonstration outside my house, calling for my arrest."   so, according to arundhati the officials (in delhi) 'outsourced their displeasure' to (of all the people) " the women’s wing of the Bharatiya Janata Party" ........ quite a collusion between the ...congress govt and the bjp ..... all because of arundhati ...... somewhat self-delusional of her   the self-delusion is also reflected in her (kind of suggesting) that no one should file court cases against her   she writes "The murderous Bajrang Dal, a militant Hindu group that, in 2002, spearheaded attacks against Muslims in Gujarat in which more than a thousand people were killed, have announced that they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal, including by filing criminal charges against me in different courts across the country."   (much as i detest them) what is wrong with bajrang dal or any other organisation or individual "filing criminal charges" against arundhati "in different courts across the country"? for sure it would be harassment but arundhati should expect that as a counter for her version of the truth ...... nothing illegal about it ......... no human rights abuse in it .... it is the 'aazadi' of approaching a court of law (or many) with a complaint   tale piece : there has to be a tale to be found in arundhati's rancour against and dissatisfaction with obama (in his india visit) being discordant with arundhati's separatist brothers of kashmir's stone age being "jubilant" over obama http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/9/separatists-jubilant-37.asp       .............. aalok aima   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/opinion/09roy.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all arundhati has earlier written screenplays From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 9 18:23:08 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 18:23:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan Govt Blocks Balochistan Newspaper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Baloch Hal News ** *QUETTA/ISLAMABAD: *The government of Pakistan has decided to ban Balochistan’s first online English newspaper, *The Baloch Hal*, on the advice of sensitive government departments, reported Dawn News. According to the details, the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA), which monitors the internet operations in the country, has confirmed to have received instructions from high-ups in the government to ban the Baloch Hal, which is currently the most widely quoted newspaper about Pakistan’s gas-rich province of Balochistan. “We deeply regret the official decision,” said Malik Siraj Akbar, editor-in-chief of the newspaper, “we have always provided equal and balanced coverage to the government and the opposition in our newspaper. The government should bring public whatever “objectionable” material it ever found in our newspaper. The ban is intended to disconnect Balochistan’s news link with the rest of the world. This is a setback to the freedom of press.” *The Baloch Hal* was launched on November 20, last year and was preparing to celebrate its first launching anniversary in the next two weeks. The government had also banned another Baloch newspaper, *Daily Asaap*, last year and besieged the offices of *Daily Azadi* and *Balochistan Express*. The signs of ban appeared on Saturday when readers of the newspaper complained from different Pakistani cities saying they were unable to access the newspaper. “Every time I try to access the site, I get a message which says it has been blocked on the instructions of the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA),” said Zubir Baloch, a resident of Karachi and a user of the services of World Call Group, a telecommunication Company. When contacted by The Baloch Hal to explain reasons for the closure of the site to its subscribers, the Chief Executive of World Call Group, Sheryar Taseeer, said he would get information from the management but never shared the information with the *Baloch Hal* team. It is worth recalling that World Call Group is owned by the Governor of Punjab and senior Pakistan People’s Party leader Salmaan Taseer. The government of Balochistan had also been recently disturbed with the critical editorials of the newspaper. ” The spokesman of the chief minister of Balochistan accused us of dictating the government but we still published his point of view because we believe in the freedom of the press,” said Nazia Baloch, Op-Ed editor of the newspaper. http://www.thebalochhal.com/2010/11/the-baloch-hal-banned/ From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 19:06:41 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 05:36:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Why Obama is skipping Pakistan Message-ID: <40692.85683.qm@web120205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> mosharraf zaidi (himself a pakistani) writes:   "There's something exceptionally problematic about the misplaced Pakistani pride that expects the United States to treat Pakistan in the same manner that it treats India."   "Picking at India's soft underbelly is for the bitter and the out of touch. It is hardly constructive or relevant to the Pakistani condition. The only relevant lessons from the Obama visit to India are the ones to be gleaned from the deals being made."   "All the while, there are mouths to feed, money to be earned, deals to be made. While we drown in the inanities of this country's infinite and perpetual search for identity, we are deepening our current bankruptcy, and ensuring a future of mostly begging for handouts. Obama next stops are South Korea, Indonesia and Japan. The reason he is not visiting Pakistan is obvious. Pakistan does not belong on that list of countries. And that is not India's fault."     .............. aalok aima     http://www.thenews.com.pk/09-11-2010/Opinion/14525.htm   Why Obama is skipping Pakistan Mosharraf Zaidi   Most of the Pakistani response to the visit by President Barack Obama to India seems to be of the sour-grapes variety. These sour grapes are the fruit of Pakistan's intoxication with regional parity. Pakistanis are upset, even jilted, that the recently humbled President Obama is visiting India, and not paying Pakistan a visit on the same trip. Surely, we jest.   There's something exceptionally problematic about the misplaced Pakistani pride that expects the United States to treat Pakistan in the same manner that it treats India. Pakistan is a net-consumer of American taxpayer benevolence. India is a net-contributor to the American taxpayers' bottom-line. What part of "more money" is so difficult for the Pakistani nationalist elite to understand? Perhaps some numbers will help populate the imagination. Pakistan has the injuriously infamous Kerry Lugar Bill of course, which is a $1.5 billion gift from American taxpayers to the Pakistani elite, to help purchase the things that the Pakistani elite should be paying for-bridges, schools and other brick-and-mortar infrastructure that contractors across the country will find much harder to scam than they would like. At the "strategic dialogue" this past month of course, Pakistan was also able to secure a promise from the ever-weakening Democratic administration, that it would seek an additional $2 billion in military funding for Pakistan, from a House of Representatives that is fresh from a set of victories for the Jamaat-e-Tea faction of the Hizb-e-Republicans. So this friendship between America and Pakistan (regardless of what it has cost Pakistan), potentially costs the American taxpayer a cool $3.5 billion a year in cash and military hardware. To get a look at some of the things President's Obama's entourage will be doing in India-other than horrendous (though very cute) attempts to seem like they are down with Bollywood-we turn to the excellent reporting of Paul Beckett (Wall Street Journal) and Alister Bull (Reuters). Their summaries of business deals on Obama's agenda include: $917 million for Bucyrus International, a Wisconsin-based manufacturer, to sell mining equipment to Sasan Power in Madhya Pradesh for a 3,960 megawatt powerplant. $2.7 billion for Boeing to supply 30 Boeing 737s to the plethora of Indian airlines that have helped transport tens of millions of creative, innovative and risk-loving Indian entrepreneurs around their country. $4.5 billion to $5.8 billion for the purchase of 10 C-17 aircraft, as well as hundreds of engines and spare parts for the Indian military. $50 million for Caterpillar to supply marine engines to the Indian Coast Guard. $800 million for General Electric to supply fighter jet engines to the Indian Aeronautical Development Agency for a light combat aircraft for India. $500 million for General Electric to supply super heavyweight gas turbine engines for Reliance Energy. These deals alone are worth more than $10 billion in total transactions, with the cash heading from India to the shores of the recession-prone American economy that can't seem to create jobs without someone's benevolence. They do not include some of the massive deals for which dollar figures are not public, because they are deals between private sector companies in both countries. One of the most promising potential deals is the one between the Tata Group and two firms, Eaton and Cummins. Together these companies have developed the already in-operation Hybrid Tata Starbus-which was used at the Commonwealth Games to transport players to and from venues. Potential contracts for this kind of bus will be in the thousands, with New Delhi alone looking to add 6,000 vehicles to its public sector transportation network. Another potential deal for India's transportation sector that has yet to be finalised is the purchase of 4,000 state-of-the-art diesel engines, worth at least $4 billion by Indian Railways, from either GE or Caterpillar. The total value of these deals is one thing. The total number of jobs these deals will produce in the United States is another. Obama Administration officials are confident that the deals will deliver at least 50,000 jobs for manufacturers in the US. So just to recap the numbers here, Pakistan is a country that the United States is paying $3.5 billion in total, because without this money Pakistan threatens to go Talibankrupt. That $3.5 billion is going to come from the American taxpayers' paycheck. Its money they're forced to pay because of the gullibility and guilt of centrist American politicians.   In contrast, India is a country that is going to spend more than $10 billion to buy American goods and services, and in that process, will help create 50,000 jobs, and the paychecks that go with them. Now ask yourself which country is going to get special treatment? That melody in the distance is the sound American violins playing Vande Mataram. Of course, none of this means that the US-India romance is righteous. It is what it is. The flowery rhetoric of shared values between the US and India are cute-but America will not and cannot treat Oregon the way India has treated, is treating and will continue to treat Kashmir. The closest thing the US has to a domestic insurgency is Keith Olbermann's moral uprightness, or the Tea Party's commitment to making sure rich people don't have to pay taxes. India has a Naxalite problem that is fully and wholly existential in nature. America is a fully grown organism, as nation-states go. India is still growing into its own clothes, and into its rightful place on the world stage. Picking at India's soft underbelly is for the bitter and the out of touch. It is hardly constructive or relevant to the Pakistani condition. The only relevant lessons from the Obama visit to India are the ones to be gleaned from the deals being made. It is unfortunate that Pakistan's deeply polarised national discourse is so obsessed with identity. This political piñata of identity has always been exploited by both ends of the spectrum, sucking out all the air from the discourse and leaving no space for talking about the economy or jobs. Thanks to 9/11, it is now the overwhelmingly dominant lens for foreign policy (India, Afghanistan, America etc.), for social services (education curriculum, population control etc.) and even for technology (Facebook bans, "media Taliban" etc.).   All the while, there are mouths to feed, money to be earned, deals to be made. While we drown in the inanities of this country's infinite and perpetual search for identity, we are deepening our current bankruptcy, and ensuring a future of mostly begging for handouts. Obama next stops are South Korea, Indonesia and Japan. The reason he is not visiting Pakistan is obvious. Pakistan does not belong on that list of countries. And that is not India's fault. The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy. www.mosharrafzaidi.com   From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 00:59:27 2010 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 00:59:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: The problem with Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Rakesh I am sorry for getting back to you a bit late. Let me tell you that i find in your response the best example of what i appreciate as the "Ethics of Arrival": the ethical necessity to arrive at solutions, take positions and not to linger on ad infinitum. One can see in you(r response) the zeal to set things right, to get things straight, to get the work done: the task orientedness, in short. Much of it has to do with your disciplinary training, i am pretty sure. Now, eulogies apart, i intend to clarify a few things that you have ascribed to me and would want to say a few things in response to some of the things you have said which i think need a response: 1) //but then for you facts are the same as ethical positions (or personal ethics)// To my mind, a fact is not a thing-in-itself ( a fact is not khud-a). An observer of an event/enunciator/explicator is always already implicated in the definition of a fact. A fact and an ethical position of a person regarding it are not two separate things for me. They constitute a whole i term as 'facthics'. For things to be similar, they have to be separate first in order to initiate the process of comparison. Thus, for me " facts are [NOT] the same as ethical position (or personal ethics)" because they are not separate but one thing for me. Whoever said "there are no facts but only interpretations"? Hasn't it become a kinda gospel truth in the sciences that our very act of observing the universe brings alterations in it? 2)//The second point you make is that Arundhati need not take positions.// Nowhere in my response do i assert that "Arundhati need not take positions." Ironically, she does take positions, ask tough questions and destabilise many a reputation (both inside her writerly community and outside it). I just said that even if she doesn't have answers to many of the questions she has dared to ask it shouldn't matter to us that much. We needn't try finding a messiah in Arundhati who shall lead us by holding our hands to the holy grail. Arundhati as a phenomenon has acquired a strategic and tactical importance by virtue of her celebrity status in engaging with conflicts that have troubled this side of the world. She ( her celebrity persona ) is doing her bit and we stand in solidarity. 3)//Of course it bothers me, for people to to think they can get away from their duties (both constitutionally and more importantly, of a human being) by declaring themselves 'mobile republics'. // Interestingly, by declaring oneself 'mobile republic' one doesn't get away from ones responsibilities but instead embraces the larger world community and the duties that accrue as a result. One becomes a citizen of the world rather than remaining confined within the boundaries of the citizenship of a particular country or affiliations of a nation or a community. 4)//If I am appalled at the so-called movement to fight Naxals (Salwa Judum), I am equally appalled at the romanticization of the tribal way of life. (They need education and health please). // Romance has its own importance in a discourse as it has in our dreary lives. But romanticising doesn't mean denying the tribals their right to education (?) and health. But,boy, where are the doctors? and teachers? in the tribal areas? (You would say, "Let's go." And i like it!) 5)//she doesn't do research, nor does she lead ground movements or participate in them.// This is going a bit overboard. Now if you expect Arundhati to generate a bunch of excel spreadsheets full of data relating to calorie intake in the Naxal 'infested' areas and present her findings in a seminar held by National Institute of Development and Planning, i think you are knocking at a wrong door. She writes well and she's employing her writing skills to do something she has a conviction for. I don't think one can really write with conviction without doing some background research. It takes something to take an informed ethical stand. I know of many bimbos who write equally or much better than Arundhati but all they do is spill their existential grudges on their blog pages, down a peg of vodka, shake a leg or two in a disc and make merry till the dawn breaks. At least Arundhati is making a better use of her skills. The basic problem is that many people who need to speak have been rendered incapable by prejudices that run back centuries. If one Ambedkar, a dalit, properly educated and a master of English language can make these elites shudder in their pants [even Gandhi had to abandon a public dialogue abruptly because he didn't know what to do with Ambedkar's terse questions] just imagine what would happen when every other dalit starts writing like Arundhati. Wouldn't s/he flood the entire world with the tales of injustice that the paisawallas have perpetrated for generations. Wouldn't they ask them to pay for every injustice? Wouldn't they tear apart this charade that the englishwallas have built around our lifeworlds. To my mind it is most of these convent educated English speaking elites who are making everybody bewkoof. They don't realise that much of what they do, or posses, or claim to posses - material and intellectual - accrues by virtue of their facility in the English language. Why is it that our English media don't have even 1 percent dalits? A person who has been fed on English from right after his birth to right through his graduation and after ends up as a bullshitter news anchor like Arnab Goswami or an ass of an interviewer or columnist like Thapar or that hedonist par excellence of a chap called Vir Sanghvi. I wonder what would have happened if Arundhati had been a Dalit? Doesn't some perceptual change occur the moment we ask this question. What is it? And finally, it would be a mistake to think that all the people who are writing on the list don't have ground/field level affiliations. Some of the people i know personally do take their time off from practical ground level real work to post a thing or two on the list. And if you want to discuss your grassroots level experiences on the list everybody welcomes you, its a different thing that you find a response or not, but that shouldn't matter because there shall always be somebody listening to what you have to say. Else, there are many other alternative forums to compare your notes in. Pheeta Ram From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 09:45:53 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:45:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: The problem with Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Pheeta I never said that people on this forum don't indulge in ground work, just that doing that and sharing those experiences (as some definitely do) seems to be much better than just being online and saying one thing after another without any such experience, as some others do. Of course, at the end of the day, Arundhati does do a service, though whether can it be done in a better way is of course what I am thinking. But then, we agree to disagree. Rakesh On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > Dear Rakesh > > I am sorry for getting back to you a bit late. > > Let me tell you that i find in your response the best example of what i > appreciate as the "Ethics of Arrival": the ethical necessity to arrive at > solutions, take positions and not to linger on ad infinitum. One can see in > you(r response) the zeal to set things right, to get things straight, to get > the work done: the task orientedness, in short. Much of it has to do with > your disciplinary training, i am pretty sure. > > Now, eulogies apart, i intend to clarify a few things that you have > ascribed to me and would want to say a few things in response to some of the > things you have said which i think need a response: > > 1) //but then for you facts are the same as ethical positions (or personal > ethics)// > > To my mind, a fact is not a thing-in-itself ( a fact is not khud-a). An > observer of an event/enunciator/explicator is always already implicated in > the definition of a fact. A fact and an ethical position of a person > regarding it are not two separate things for me. They constitute a whole i > term as 'facthics'. For things to be similar, they have to be separate first > in order to initiate the process of comparison. Thus, for me " facts are > [NOT] the same as ethical position (or personal ethics)" because they are > not separate but one thing for me. Whoever said "there are no facts but only > interpretations"? Hasn't it become a kinda gospel truth in the sciences that > our very act of observing the universe brings alterations in it? > > > > 2)//The second point you make is that Arundhati need not take positions.// > > Nowhere in my response do i assert that "Arundhati need not take > positions." Ironically, she does take positions, ask tough questions and > destabilise many a reputation (both inside her writerly community and > outside it). I just said that even if she doesn't have answers to many of > the questions she has dared to ask it shouldn't matter to us that much. We > needn't try finding a messiah in Arundhati who shall lead us by holding our > hands to the holy grail. Arundhati as a phenomenon has acquired a strategic > and tactical importance by virtue of her celebrity status in engaging with > conflicts that have troubled this side of the world. She ( her celebrity > persona ) is doing her bit and we stand in solidarity. > > > 3)//Of course it bothers me, for people to to think they can get away from > their duties (both constitutionally and more importantly, of a human being) > by declaring themselves 'mobile republics'. // > > Interestingly, by declaring oneself 'mobile republic' one doesn't get away > from ones responsibilities but instead embraces the larger world community > and the duties that accrue as a result. One becomes a citizen of the world > rather than remaining confined within the boundaries of the citizenship of a > particular country or affiliations of a nation or a community. > > > 4)//If I am appalled at the so-called movement to fight Naxals (Salwa > Judum), I am equally appalled at the romanticization of the tribal way of > life. (They need education and health please). // > > Romance has its own importance in a discourse as it has in our dreary > lives. But romanticising doesn't mean denying the tribals their right to > education (?) and health. But,boy, where are the doctors? and teachers? in > the tribal areas? (You would say, "Let's go." And i like it!) > > > 5)//she doesn't do research, nor does she lead ground movements or > participate in them.// > > This is going a bit overboard. Now if you expect Arundhati to generate a > bunch of excel spreadsheets full of data relating to calorie intake in the > Naxal 'infested' areas and present her findings in a seminar held by > National Institute of Development and Planning, i think you are knocking at > a wrong door. She writes well and she's employing her writing skills to do > something she has a conviction for. I don't think one can really write with > conviction without doing some background research. It takes something to > take an informed ethical stand. I know of many bimbos who write equally or > much better than Arundhati but all they do is spill their existential > grudges on their blog pages, down a peg of vodka, shake a leg or two in a > disc and make merry till the dawn breaks. At least Arundhati is making a > better use of her skills. > > The basic problem is that many people who need to speak have been rendered > incapable by prejudices that run back centuries. If one Ambedkar, a dalit, > properly educated and a master of English language can make these elites > shudder in their pants [even Gandhi had to abandon a public dialogue > abruptly because he didn't know what to do with Ambedkar's terse questions] > just imagine what would happen when every other dalit starts writing like > Arundhati. Wouldn't s/he flood the entire world with the tales of injustice > that the paisawallas have perpetrated for generations. Wouldn't they ask > them to pay for every injustice? Wouldn't they tear apart this charade that > the englishwallas have built around our lifeworlds. To my mind it is most of > these convent educated English speaking elites who are making everybody > bewkoof. They don't realise that much of what they do, or posses, or claim > to posses - material and intellectual - accrues by virtue of their facility > in the English language. Why is it that our English media don't have even 1 > percent dalits? A person who has been fed on English from right after his > birth to right through his graduation and after ends up as a bullshitter > news anchor like Arnab Goswami or an ass of an interviewer or columnist like > Thapar or that hedonist par excellence of a chap called Vir Sanghvi. > > I wonder what would have happened if Arundhati had been a Dalit? Doesn't > some perceptual change occur the moment we ask this question. What is it? > > And finally, it would be a mistake to think that all the people who are > writing on the list don't have ground/field level affiliations. Some of the > people i know personally do take their time off from practical ground level > real work to post a thing or two on the list. And if you want to discuss > your grassroots level experiences on the list everybody welcomes you, its a > different thing that you find a response or not, but that shouldn't matter > because there shall always be somebody listening to what you have to say. > Else, there are many other alternative forums to compare your notes in. > > Pheeta Ram > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 09:48:31 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:48:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: The problem with Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Pheeta For the other questions, valid points raised. And I second those. Except for that mobile republic bit. One need not declare oneself a mobile republic to express his/her duties towards others at least. Such mobile republics can also run away from the world if it suits them. Rakesh From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 11:06:02 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 11:06:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth Message-ID: Hi Bipin, I would like to know your views on the following news item that appeared this morning. Thanks "The study says that the "miracle" argument fails to take into account a crucial figure - fall of agricultural output by 30 per cent during two drought years, 1999 and 2000. Then, there is yet another distortion - the 9.6 per cent growth rate is on current prices, which means that the "figures are not corrected for inflation". It underlines, "The 'growth' observed in the recent past (2002 onwards) is nothing but a good recovery from a major dip in production occurred during the drought years of 1999 and 2000." The state officials are examining the study. The study also disputes the argument that dependence on rainfall went down in Gujarat due to a large number of check dams built in the state in 1999-2000. The highest growth, 22 per cent, during 1980-2006, was on account of milk production. As for crops like cotton and groundnut, "with good monsoons, production grew substantially with steady expansion in cropped area or yield growth", but in drought years "production suffered with shrinkage in area under irrigated winter crops, and sharp reduction in yield of crops sown in kharif, including cotton and groundnut". Read more: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-miracle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat Thanks Anupam From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 13:36:25 2010 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:36:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Geographic dichotomy of Indian Muslims Message-ID: Dear Fellow readers on the reader's list, An excellent article by Mr. Siraj in Tehelka over the geographic dichotomy of Indian Muslims over identity politics. thanks Rajkamal link: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main47.asp?filename=Op131110South_Indian.asp Read....... 'South Indian Muslims are not keen on issues related to identity’ THE AYODHYA tangle that kept the communal pot on the boil is not going to unravel anytime soon. But the conspicuous absence of triumphalism on the part of the majority community and restraint on the part of Muslims signifies the changed mood of the nation. The verdict may have gift-wrapped the major slice of the booty to the litigants responsible for the historic mayhem, but it has also emphasised that solutions could still be worked out if pragmatism is not discarded from the lexicon of the disputants. Notwithstanding the dismay over the verdict, the dominant view among the Muslims in south India is that it serves no purpose to mortgage their existence to identity-related issues. Much unlike their northern counterparts, the 20 million Muslims in the south see their future tethered to how the majority thinks, aspires, acts and behaves. It stems from the view that a minority has to work with and within the majority society and traditional religious institutions such as mosques and madrassas are unlikely to work in a modern world in which success and social mobility are tied to the mastery of scientific and technical skills. Much of India’s Muslim leadership comes from states where Muslims are more numerous but not necessarily more enlightened. So in any national Muslim conclave, the pragmatic voices, especially from the south, get suppressed under the rhetoric-laced Urdu poetry from conservative leaders who do nothing other than sing paeans of past glory. Pleas to modernise madrassa curriculum, divert charities to more productive uses like schools, hospitals, for building centres for small artisans and convention halls and scholarship for students, are pooh-poohed. Blame for deficiency in terms of development is conveniently laid at the doors of the government. Emotive issues such as the Shah Bano controversy over alimony, Satanic Verses, Taslima Nasreen, three talaqs, Arab marriages and Babri Masjid, therefore, come handy to keep the millat’s emotional pot boiling. This orthodox leadership from the north feels something seriously amiss if some such issue is not there at hand. True, the migration of the middle class and professionals in the wake of Partition emptied the north of leadership material. Also true that identity became an obsession in the wake of India opting for a secular dispensation. But is it not worth considering that secularism was the most civilised response from Nehruvian India to the subcontinent’s traumatic partition on communal lines? Was India not being charitable to its residual Muslim minority by opting out of Hindu Rashtra? Institutional biases against Muslims were natural in the wake of Partition. But the Muslim leadership walked into the trap laid by Hindutva forces at every turn. Not able to identify its priorities in an India of 20th century, it has hopped from crisis to crisis, all based on issues that relate to it religious identity. Looking forward The Muslim leadership in the north believes that madrassas are good enough for the boys PHOTO: TRILOCHAN S KALRA This obsession with keeping religion in the forefront has resulted in reinforcing conservatism in the community, spawning resistance against reform and change. But the situation of Muslims, more so where they are in a minority (nearly 30 percent of the 1.65 billion Muslims around the world), is vociferously urging change. An individual Muslim feels the heat of change at every step. But those who have assumed the mantle of leadership stand resolutely against it, dubbing all changes to stem from enemies of Islam. There is this plea for avoiding so much of controversy over sighting of the moon for Eid-ul-Fitr every year by taking the help of astronomers who can fix the lunar calendar for the next 3,000 years. But the clergy has nothing but contempt for such ‘extraneous’ help. Consequently, Muslims in India celebrate Eid on two or three days. In British India, they celebrated it on a single day from Karachi to Rangoon. TWO MUSLIM-MANAGED colleges, one each in Chennai and Bengaluru, closed down their hotel management and catering institutes five years ago. Reason: Deoband-trained clerics opined that Muslim institutions should not teach how to serve wine and handle pork, even though these were included among hundreds of other skills such institutions impart. Muslim culinary traditions and skills make others drool over fares served by Muslim hotels all over the country, yet the Muslim students cannot be taught how to blend culinary and hospitality skills in institutions managed by the community. Would it stop them from learning it elsewhere? Perhaps not. It would have been instructive if they would have looked into how Jews and Jains run their hotel management institutes. These communities follow much stricter kosher and vegetarian diets. Hell broke loose in the town of Vaniyambadi in Tamil Nadu where a mosque opened its portals for women and reserved the upper chamber for them. The mosque committee was forced to withdraw the facility by the Deobandi clique. They had not committed any sin. All mosques in the Middle East allow women to pray inside. Even the mosques affiliated to Ahle-e-Hadith and Shafii sects all over south India have this facility. Pragmatic voices from the south get suppressed under the rhetoric-laced conservative talk As a social worker, I have guided nearly 10,000 students since 1987 through career counselling, providing scholarships, orientation on life skills and textbooks. I see a distinct dislike among Muslim boys for veterinary courses and among girls opting for nursing. There is a fear that veterinary course would have piggery and nursing would entail attending to male patients. Islamic traditions point out that the Holy Prophet’s foster mother Umme Ayman and one of the holy companions, Khaula bint Zarar, used to serve as nurses in the battlefield. But in 20th century India, to err on the conservative side is considered a merit in matters of interpreting Islam among the clergy. What a pity! These clerics outstoop each other to produce a more conservative interpretation, no matter how out of sync it sounds with the time and society they are living in. When cameras came, photography was declared illegitimate by the clergy. Over the century, this interpretation was extended to television, cinema, videography, X-ray, animation and cartoons. This regression among Muslims is directly related to the repulsion bred against the innovative spirit in the Muslim psyche through an outmoded theological education. Reformists within Muslims live in fear of being declared heretics. It happened with 19th century reformer Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, the founder of the Muslim Anglo Oriental College, Aligarh. Poet Sir Mohammed Iqbal missed this embarrassment by a hair’s breadth. Dividends are petering off and the immiserisation of the community is leading to its complete downfall. Muslims must understand that building an identity and politics around emotive issues simply will not work. Trumpeting victimhood in no way takes the community forward. But those who feel the pulse of the changing world and attune themselves to it, survive, thrive and even rise from the ashes of wars. -- Rajkamal From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 13:51:25 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:51:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear all The link for the report: http://irapindia.org/gujarat_s%20agricultural_april_2010.pdf Rakesh On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Hi Bipin, > > I would like to know your views on the following news item that appeared > this morning. > > Thanks > > "The study says that the "miracle" argument fails to take into account a > crucial figure - fall of agricultural output by 30 per cent during two > drought years, 1999 and 2000. > > > Then, there is yet another distortion - the 9.6 per cent growth rate is on > current prices, which means that the "figures are not corrected for > inflation". > > It underlines, "The 'growth' observed in the recent past (2002 onwards) is > nothing but a good recovery from a major dip in production occurred during > the drought years of 1999 and 2000." The state officials are examining the > study. > > The study also disputes the argument that dependence on rainfall went down > in Gujarat due to a large number of check dams built in the state in > 1999-2000. > > The highest growth, 22 per cent, during 1980-2006, was on account of milk > production. As for crops like cotton and groundnut, "with good monsoons, > production grew substantially with steady expansion in cropped area or > yield > growth", but in drought years "production suffered with shrinkage in area > under irrigated winter crops, and sharp reduction in yield of crops sown in > kharif, including cotton and groundnut". > > Read more: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth - The > Times of India< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-miracle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-miracle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat > > Thanks > Anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ram at maraa.in Wed Nov 10 15:17:03 2010 From: ram at maraa.in (Ram Bhat) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:17:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mobile Artistic Platform-Open Studio: Friday 12 Nov 2010, 6 pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Reloading Images and Maraa ** invite you to *Mobile Artistic Platform-Open Studio* * * A presentation of the creative outcomes of an experimental journey across River Nila and Anegundi. *Friday 12 Nov 2010, 6pm* *@1Shanthiroad Studio Gallery, B'lore * *Show continues 13 and 14 Nov 4pm to 9pm* * * *Organisers* *- Kaya Behkalam, Roberto Cavallini and Carla Tommasini for Reloading Images and Ram Bhat, Ekta Mittal and Monica James for Maraa. Participating artists - Enrico Sgarbi and Martina Moor (Italy), Juliana Irene Smith (U.S.A), Louise Mc Kissick (Canada), Bhagwati Prasad and Harsha Vinay (India).* From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 10 18:07:33 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 04:37:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Obama in Kashmir Message-ID: <792647.46961.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> riyaz ahmad writes:    ‎"The sum of the visit from the separatist point of view was that Kashmir wasn't an entirely lost cause. Somehow, the mention of Kashmir - albeit in answer to a question - stood out as some kind of a boost after five months of hartals." "Overall, the visit made for an interesting time in Valley, full of expectation, fears and in the end leaving some sense of disillusionment if not the outright betrayal. The visit also left questions for the separatists." "Post-Eid, the extended hartals have shown diminishing returns. In fact, the strategy has become so routinized that what was an exceptionally abnormal situation before Eid seems now perfectly normal. Not only has the situation become boringly predictable, thereby depriving it of any news value but there is also no sense of alarm in New Delhi. Hurriyat (G) chief Syed Ali Shah Geelani, perhaps in recognition of this changed reality, has issued a soft calendar with fewer hartals. But this has not stopped some people from talking and questioning the rationale of hartals. President Obama, therefore, may have left without making any radical difference to the search for Kashmir solution, he has nevertheless given an occasion for reality check of the separatist strategy. And it is high time they heed the call."   for interesting comparisons, one must re-visit the futuristic scenarios explored by the same writer riyaz ahmad before the obama visit (posted earlier on 3/11) http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/3/after-obama-is-gone-22.asp     .......... aalok aima     http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/10/obama-in-kashmir-12.asp   Obama in Kashmir   Overall, the visit of US president made for an interesting time in Valley   POINT OF VIEW BY RIYAZ AHMAD   It was an exceptionally peaceful Kashmir that greeted president Obama's India visit - civil curfew notwithstanding. There were no protests, no incidents of stone pelting anywhere in Valley. And this seems quite extraordinary given the scale of turmoil this place has witnessed for the past five months, with hardly a day passing without some report of trouble. The government didn't even take a recourse to the curfew which otherwise appeared eminently possible given the sensitivity of the occasion. Separatists, on their part, stayed well short of a chalo call which would have warranted a stricter government response.  On the contrary, Kashmir was in a state of half shutdown, with some urban pockets duly observing civil curfew. On some long routes like Srinagar-Baramulla even buses were plying.  This was beside the three-wheelers and the sumos which have already returned to the roads, beside the pavement vendors. However, a large section of the population kept glued to their TV sets, following Obama's speeches, his wisecracks, his dances etc. And praying all along to hear the answer to their ultimate prayers: mention of Kashmir. And when he did in answer to a question, there was suddenly a massive sense of achievement. Obama's statement that US was ready  to ''play any role'' in Kashmir if asked by both India and Pakistan suddenly made the visit matter to people. In fact, Obama went further and called Kashmir ''a long-standing dispute,'' a phrase that has become such a bone of contention in South Asian discourse. The entire array of separatist leadership was prompt to welcome the statement. For Geelani it, in a sense, capped the five month protest campaign and for Mirwaiz it indicated US had embarked on a facilitatory role to resolve Kashmir.  The statement was seen as a boost to Kashmir struggle by JKLF too. But the reference to Kashmir was limited only to the answer to a reporter's question. The subsequent parliament speech, however,  had no Kashmir in it, just a broad articulation of the US agenda for the region and a recognition of India's growing role in the world. And by the time the visit drew to a close and a joint statement was issued, granting India the US support for UNSC seat and a prominent development role in Afghanistan, mention of Kashmir seemed to have been a thing of past.  Obama moved fast to pursue the primary mission of his assignment: to reinforce the US alliance with India. And to prove this, he said his choosing of India as the first stop in his Asian tour was no coincidence. And Obama was extravagant in his praise for the India's democratic and secular credentials and, of course, Gandhian values. The sum of the visit from the separatist point of view was that Kashmir wasn't an entirely lost cause. Somehow, the mention of Kashmir - albeit in answer to a question - stood out as some kind of a boost after five months of hartals. The mood is a far cry from the former president George Bush’s visit in 2006 which had plunged the separatists in a slough of despond, with both militants and the political groups calling for the “re-organization of the movement” and promotion of the “indigenization of the struggle” to rid it of  any terrorist tag or being Pakistan sponsored. A glimpse of how expectantly Kashmir looked at the Obama was also obvious from the stories  in local media. Over the past week, the Valley’s local newspapers, where the reactions from the J-K parties and interests come pouring after any major event, was flush with the statements from an array of separatist groups. While, the militant groups were conspicuously silent, the response from separatist political parties varied through various shades of pessimism and a sense of anticipation of something major happening. In the three days of Obama's stay, Kashmir also grappled with the demons of the former US presidential visits to the country. Two Sikh hamlets in South and North Kashmir protested the mysterious entry of the uniformed men late on the day of Obama's arrival who they allege wanted to kill the members of the minority community on the pattern of the Chittisinghpora massacre of 35 Sikhs during US president Bill Clinton’s visit in 2000. The people at Hatmulla and Upalna raised an uproar when the uniformed men made their way through the village and even knocked some doors. It suddenly created panic in the villages with people pouring out on the fields and raising a din. This forced the uniformed men to flee. Police soon reached the spot and tried to assure the people of their security. Kashmiri pandits in Valley too had put out an alert, calling upon the community to maintain strict vigil during the course of Obama's stay.  Overall, the visit made for an interesting time in Valley, full of expectation, fears and in the end leaving some sense of disillusionment if not the outright betrayal. The visit also left questions for the separatists. They face an urgent challenge of guiding the struggle in the absence of a big target event like the visit of US president. Post-Eid, the extended hartals have shown diminishing returns. In fact, the strategy has become so routinized that what was an exceptionally abnormal situation before Eid seems now perfectly normal. Not only has the situation become boringly predictable, thereby depriving it of any news value but there is also no sense of alarm in New Delhi. Hurriyat (G) chief Syed Ali Shah Geelani, perhaps in recognition of this changed reality, has issued a soft calendar with fewer hartals. But this has not stopped some people from talking and questioning the rationale of hartals. President Obama, therefore, may have left without making any radical difference to the search for Kashmir solution, he has nevertheless given an occasion for reality check of the separatist strategy. And it is high time they heed the call.   From samvitr at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 18:43:54 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 18:43:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Kashmir=92s_Fruits_of_Discord_=28o?= =?windows-1252?q?r_a_discordant_arundhati_roy=3F=29?= In-Reply-To: <60870.31094.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <60870.31094.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Pretty surprising I didn't find her taking on the Bodo's after they killed about 20-25 people in Assam yesterday. Or were the Bodos also part of that Conclave where we had the rookies from India's underbelly trying to gang up? Or maybe Arundhati and her cronies feel that they would NOT make much news if they talk about the Bodos or the people who were murdered. Perhaps Arundhati and co are yet to decide which side to butter!!! On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > > > > > > that arundhati roy has lost a sense of reality was being suspected for quite some time and became evident in her statement after the protest by the bjp mahila wing at her house on 31/10/10 > > her latest article  in nyt only confirms it > > she writes "I wasn’t arrested that night. Instead, in what is becoming a common political strategy, officials outsourced their displeasure to the mob. A few days after I returned home, the women’s wing of the Bharatiya Janata Party (the right-wing Hindu nationalist opposition) staged a demonstration outside my house, calling for my arrest." > > so, according to arundhati the officials (in delhi) 'outsourced their displeasure' to (of all the people) " the women’s wing of the Bharatiya Janata Party" ........ quite a collusion between the ...congress govt and the bjp ..... all because of arundhati ...... somewhat self-delusional of her > > the self-delusion is also reflected in her (kind of suggesting) that no one should file court cases against her > > she writes "The murderous Bajrang Dal, a militant Hindu group that, in 2002, spearheaded attacks against Muslims in Gujarat in which more than a thousand people were killed, have announced that they are going to “fix” me with all the means at their disposal, including by filing criminal charges against me in different courts across the country." > > (much as i detest them) what is wrong with bajrang dal or any other organisation or individual "filing criminal charges" against arundhati "in different courts across the country"? for sure it would be harassment but arundhati should expect that as a counter for her version of the truth ...... nothing illegal about it ......... no human rights abuse in it .... it is the 'aazadi' of approaching a court of law (or many) with a complaint > > tale piece : there has to be a tale to be found in arundhati's rancour against and dissatisfaction with obama (in his india visit) being discordant with arundhati's separatist brothers of kashmir's stone age being "jubilant" over obama > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/9/separatists-jubilant-37.asp > > > .............. aalok aima > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/opinion/09roy.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all > arundhati has earlier written screenplays > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 18:54:09 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 18:54:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Kashmir=92s_Fruits_of_Discord_=28o?= =?windows-1252?q?r_a_discordant_arundhati_roy=3F=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <60870.31094.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Samvit, Raking up an issue about Bodos in this public fora without knowing that Bodos are the indigenous people in Assam suffering neglect and exploitation in hands of Assamese as well as other settlers is tragic. Do you know security forces have killed thousands over the years for those demanded Bodoland for themselves? What do you know about the Bodoland issue? How come Bodos also killed the so called Bangladeshis encroaching their lands? This issue was raised in forum a year back about Muslim camps hosting a Pakistani flag when riots broke out between Bodos and Muslims near Barpeta. Please stop using identatitarian issues for your narrow gains in debate at a public forum. your comparitive analysis doesnt dilute the topic that is being discussed here. anupam On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Samvit wrote: > Pretty surprising I didn't find her taking on the Bodo's after they > killed about 20-25 people in Assam yesterday. Or were the Bodos also > part of that Conclave where we had the rookies from India's underbelly > trying to gang up? > Or maybe Arundhati and her cronies feel that they would NOT make much > news if they talk about the Bodos or the people who were murdered. > Perhaps Arundhati and co are yet to decide which side to butter!!! > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > that arundhati roy has lost a sense of reality was being suspected for > quite some time and became evident in her statement after the protest by the > bjp mahila wing at her house on 31/10/10 > > > > her latest article in nyt only confirms it > > > > she writes "I wasn’t arrested that night. Instead, in what is becoming a > common political strategy, officials outsourced their displeasure to the > mob. A few days after I returned home, the women’s wing of the Bharatiya > Janata Party (the right-wing Hindu nationalist opposition) staged a > demonstration outside my house, calling for my arrest." > > > > so, according to arundhati the officials (in delhi) 'outsourced their > displeasure' to (of all the people) " the women’s wing of the Bharatiya > Janata Party" ........ quite a collusion between the ...congress govt and > the bjp ..... all because of arundhati ...... somewhat self-delusional of > her > > > > the self-delusion is also reflected in her (kind of suggesting) that no > one should file court cases against her > > > > she writes "The murderous Bajrang Dal, a militant Hindu group that, in > 2002, spearheaded attacks against Muslims in Gujarat in which more than a > thousand people were killed, have announced that they are going to “fix” me > with all the means at their disposal, including by filing criminal charges > against me in different courts across the country." > > > > (much as i detest them) what is wrong with bajrang dal or any other > organisation or individual "filing criminal charges" against arundhati "in > different courts across the country"? for sure it would be harassment but > arundhati should expect that as a counter for her version of the truth > ...... nothing illegal about it ......... no human rights abuse in it .... > it is the 'aazadi' of approaching a court of law (or many) with a complaint > > > > tale piece : there has to be a tale to be found in arundhati's rancour > against and dissatisfaction with obama (in his india visit) being discordant > with arundhati's separatist brothers of kashmir's stone age being "jubilant" > over obama > > > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/9/separatists-jubilant-37.asp > > > > > > .............. aalok aima > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/opinion/09roy.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all > > arundhati has earlier written screenplays > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 10 18:56:43 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 05:26:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?More_Than_A_Game_=28a_young_Kashmiri_foot?= =?utf-8?q?baller=E2=80=99s_fight_to_get_a_passport=29?= Message-ID: <344141.30930.qm@web120212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> "The rejection stamp came down with a dread sense of finality though— Basharat was, after all, the son of a Pakistan-trained militant, Bashir Baba. It didn’t matter that Basharat had never picked up arms himself. As he took on the state in his fight to get a passport, Oscar-nominated film-maker Ashvin Kumar, 37, turned the camera on him. What resulted was a story of an underdog challenging the state machinery in a battle for dignity and identity." ".... says Kumar, .......that he was pleasantly surprised that the Censor Board passed the film unchanged. “My view on Indian democracy however, has changed after the film. I was a believer; now I am a sceptic,” he says." "Today, Basharat, who practises for four hours every day and spends two hours in the gym, is quietly proud of his new passport. In a few months’ time he shall be applying for his visa. And then, hopefully, he will get a chance to live out his dream. Inshallah!"   ............. aalok aima       http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/more-than-a-game/708018/   More Than A Game Dipanita Nath Posted: Nov 08, 2010   Oscar-nominated director Ashvin Kumar’s new documentary captures a real-life story about a young Kashmiri footballer’s fight to get a passport   Basharat Baba, 20, is a footballer from Srinagar. A few years ago, destiny delivered him the chance to leave behind his strife-torn land and nurture his talent — he was among the the three players from his club selected for a professional training in a Brazilian club. As he stood in the queue at the local passport office, application in hand, it was the excitement of playing in the land of Pele that surged through the young right wing forward.   The rejection stamp came down with a dread sense of finality though— Basharat was, after all, the son of a Pakistan-trained militant, Bashir Baba. It didn’t matter that Basharat had never picked up arms himself. As he took on the state in his fight to get a passport, Oscar-nominated film-maker Ashvin Kumar, 37, turned the camera on him. What resulted was a story of an underdog challenging the state machinery in a battle for dignity and identity. The one hour-twenty minute-long film, Inshallah! Football premiered at the India Habitat Centre in Delhi a few days ago and among those who watched from the front row was Basharat himself. “I don’t like the camera on me,” says the strapping footballer who has also played for Mohun Bagan, the premiere club of West Bengal. “I only know how to play football. The first time I watched this film, I was shaking. Today, I was calmer,” he says.   Kumar, a veteran of critically acclaimed films like Road to Ladakh and Little Terrorist (nominated for an Oscar in the Live Action Short Film Category in 2005) says he went to Kashmir early last year with a plan to make a feature film on the Valley where he had spent many childhood holidays at his grandfather’s house (designer Ritu Kumar’s father) in Baramulla. A chance meeting with Juan Marcos Troia, an Argentine footballer who ran ISAT, a club that coaches young Kashmiri boys to play professionally in clubs in Spain and Brazil, changed Kumar’s script. “My initial plan was to film two Kashmiri boys who went to Spain. But, midway, we realised that the film had to be about Basharat, the captain of ISAT, who was left behind,” he says.   As Basharat did the rounds of police stations and courts, Kumar spliced together a montage of images— from the plight of Kashmiri Pandits to Mirwaiz Umar Farooq’s rabble-rousing speeches, from stone pelting to Bashir’s interviews on militancy and the Army torture that followed. His camera juxtaposes opposites, like the poignant banner at an Army outpost which reads, “Respect All, Suspect All” standing out amidst the breathtaking scenic beauty.   Basharat’s story plays out against a backdrop of unrest in Kashmir interspersed with dark humour and tiny rays of hope in the form of Troia and his Brazilian wife Priscilla’s dedication to young footballers. “We filmed from August to November last year. The Shopian case had recently come to the fore but the situation hadn’t spiralled out of control. I was caught in a stone pelting melee but, otherwise, shooting was peaceful and I was able to travel freely with my crew,” says Kumar, adding that he was pleasantly surprised that the Censor Board passed the film unchanged. “My view on Indian democracy however, has changed after the film. I was a believer; now I am a sceptic,” he says.   Though he could not interview Army men and paramilitary personnel, Kumar did manage to get through to Chief Minister Omar Abdullah who narrated how he had read about Basharat in The Indian Express (Game Interrupted, September 13, 2009) and intervened to get him his passport. Today, Basharat, who practises for four hours every day and spends two hours in the gym, is quietly proud of his new passport. In a few months’ time he shall be applying for his visa. And then, hopefully, he will get a chance to live out his dream. Inshallah!"       From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 19:19:11 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:19:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Kashmir=3A_The_=91azaadi=92_road_t?= =?windows-1252?q?o_slavery?= Message-ID: Kashmir: The ‘azaadi’ road to slavery *November 10, 2010 11:00 AM | GV Ramakrishna* *Link *- http://www.moneylife.in/article/11053.html *The security of well over a billion Indians cannot be jeopardised by the short-sighted suicidal attitude of a misguided few who espouse the Kashmiri secessionist cause * The recent events regarding sedition, *azaadi* and similar slogans espoused by Sajjad Gani Lone and his ilk in Kashmir fail to take some basic facts into account. Let people of India which includes J&K, roll back to 1947 when the marauders aided by Pakistani paramilitary forces invaded J&K and came up to Baramulla. How they razed the nunnery there and how they tortured and killed the nuns is part of history. For Pakistan, this is an unfinished story. If Lone takes into account what is happening in Pakistan today he will see that the Shia sect and the Sufis of Pakistan have been systematically targeted and killed by the Sunni-dominated majority in the army and the administration. The Muslims of Kashmir are quite different from the Sunnis of Pakistan. They are gentler, more cultured and similar to the Sufis. Is it difficult to imagine the fate of the Kashmiri Muslims under the tutelage of the Sunnis of Pakistan? It will be the irony of ironies if in the name of *azaadi*, they walk into the Sunni trap from which they cannot escape and will have to be reconciled to be treated as slaves and subordinate citizens for all time. Do the Kashmiris really want this one-way road to slavery in Pakistan instead of the special treatment they are now getting in India? This is what the interloculators should put to the separatist groups in Kashmir. Secondly, even if the Muslims want to form part of the Sunni hegemony, what about the other religious groups in J&K and particularly the four lakh Kashmiri Pandits who have as much right as the Muslims to reside in their state? Surely they have a right to be part of Kashmir — in India. Why should India not press for the return of these people to Kashmir? Thirdly, the right of secession does not belong to any constituent group. At the time of Independence, there were over 500 states which had acceded to India under Instruments of Accession similar to that of Kashmir. There is no reason why J&K should be treated differently from other states. There are ten times more Muslims in India than in Kashmir and they are well-integrated with the rest of the population, allowing for some misguided persons toeing the Pakistani line. Fourthly, the rest of India has to have a say in the matter. They have sacrificed over 20,000 lives and spent over Rs20,000 crore over all these years in defending J&K. The price for all this should not be the real danger to India’s security with the Pakistanis sitting over the enslaved population across the border. And let us not forget the Chinese who are close allies of Pakistan. If they are now in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir (POK) in the thousands, they will swarm into the valley under the guise of aiding them in various projects. In fact, no one will dispute the fact that if India withdraws its army from Kashmir within the next two weeks, 2,000 terrorists waiting across the border, aided openly by the Pakistani army, will overrun Kashmir and enslave the people of Kashmir. Is this why the people of India sacrificed their young men and spent thousands of crores over all these years to keep out the Pakistanis? And what happens to Nagaland and Mizoram if they also want to follow Kashmir? They will come under the tutelage of the Chinese in no time. No part of India can secede without the rest of India acceding to the proposal. Will the rest of India agree that Kashmiris alone should decide as to where they should belong? Should not the safety and territorial security of India be a major consideration even for the Kashmiris who talk of secession? It is time that these implications of the *azaadi* groups’ demand are explained frankly and fully to everyone and in all of India. The security of India of over a billion people cannot be jeopardised by the short-sighted suicidal attitude of the Kashmiris. Will the interlocutors explain all this to the Kashmiris? Will all the other political parties explain all this to the people of India so that they can deal with all those who espouse the secessionist cause at the hustings? The political map of India can then change and our approach to J&K can be more purposeful and helpful to the gentle — though misguided — people of the beautiful valley. *(The writer is former SEBI chairman, former chairman-Disinvestment Commission and former member, Planning Commission of India)* From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 10 19:35:37 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 06:05:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?REFUGEES_AND_THE_REPUBLIC_-_India?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_contradictory_attitude_to_displaced_peoples?= Message-ID: <988371.47041.qm@web120215.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ramachandra guha highlights that since 26th Jan, 1950, india has accepted as refugees "successive waves"  of   "migrants (who) were all fleeing majoritarian or authoritarian policies in their own countries."   guha advises that "Indians should be more aware, and perhaps more proud, of this tradition than they currently are."   then he brings out the contradictions:   "But the self-congratulation should not be excessive. For, even as we have welcomed in some 25 million refugees since 1950, in the same period we — that is to say, the people and government of India — have displaced roughly the same number of our own fellow citizens from their lands and villages."   "There have been two major groups of ‘internal refugees’ in independent India; the victims of development projects, and the victims of social strife. Since 1950, perhaps as many as 20 million Indians have been ousted from their homes by new hydroelectric projects, mines, factories, roads, colleges and universities, and townships."   "Since 1950, some five million Indians have also been rendered homeless by sectarian or civil violence."    "For the most part, the main offenders in religious riots have been radical or extremist Hindus; the main sufferers, poor and vulnerable Muslims. There have been two major exceptions; the pogrom against the Sikhs in Delhi and some other northern cities in 1984, and the forced expulsion of Pandits from the Kashmir Valley by Islamic fundamentalists in 1989-90."   "Other Indians have been displaced as a consequence of conflicts between the State and those who seek to challenge or overthrow it."   "  “India is home to all that is truly noble as well as truly disgusting in the human experience.” So it is with our refugee policy; honourable and admirable when it comes to treating victims of persecution from other lands, shameful and shocking with regard to the refugees created by economic and political developments within India."     ........... aalok aima     http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101109/jsp/opinion/story_13134370.jsp   Tuesday , November 9 , 2010   REFUGEES AND THE REPUBLIC - India’s contradictory attitude to displaced peoples   Politics and Play - Ramachandra Guha   At a meeting in Chennai that I recently attended, an official of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, herself a Swiss national, remarked that “the Indian Government has a very humane attitude towards refugees”. She was not merely showing courtesy towards her hosts. For, as another speaker at the symposium pointed out, in its 60-year-career the Republic of India has given refuge to some 25 million people fleeing persecution in their own homelands.   Listening to these presentations, I made a list of major refugee movements into India after January 26th, 1950. This doubtless incomplete listing goes as follows:   In the early 1950s, more than a million Hindus fled East Pakistan, seeking shelter chiefly in the state of West Bengal;   In the late 1950s, Tibetan Buddhists began crossing over into the Indian part of the Himalaya. Most settled near Dharamsala and Mussoorie, but several thousand made their home as far south as Karnataka;   In the early 1960s, following major Hindu-Muslim riots in East Pakistan, there was a fresh flow of refugees into eastern India;   >From the mid 1960s, a steady trickle of Garo and Chakma tribals began coming into northeast India from East Pakistan;   In the early 1970s, Hindus and Muslims, numbering some nine million in all, came across the border, being placed in temporary shelters across West Bengal, and parts of Tripura and Assam as well;   In the early 1980s, very many Sri Lankan Tamils crossed the Palk Strait into Tamil Nadu;   >From the late 1980s, many Burmese nationals began seeking asylum in India.   What is striking about these successive waves is that the migrants were all fleeing majoritarian or authoritarian policies in their own countries. The Bengali Hindus were the victims of an Islamic Pakistan; the Tibetan Buddhists of a cruel Communist regime; the Sri Lankan Tamils of Sinhala chauvinism; the Burmese of a military dictatorship. The refugees of 1971 were fleeing both the Punjabi chauvinism of the Pakistani elite and the brutality of the Pakistani army. For all these people, the Republic of India felt somehow safer than the country of which they were citizens. (In addition to these victims of persecution, India has also provided a home to large numbers of Hindus from Nepal and Muslims from Bangladesh who have come as economic migrants.)   During the Partition riots of 1946-47, millions of Muslim refugees left India for Pakistan, even as millions of Hindus and Sikhs came into it. However, after the establishment of our republic in 1950, the movement has been strictly one way. While India has welcomed in refugees from Pakistan, China, Bangladesh, Burma and Sri Lanka, there are no Indian refugees in those countries. As that UN official pointed out, our tradition of hospitality to victims of discrimination brings credit to India and Indians. A poor, divided and still imperfectly united country has provided refuge and dignity to tens of millions of aliens. This has been the handiwork of both State and citizen; for, while public policies have welcomed refugees in, the aam admi has provided space and succour to them. Overall, our record in this regard compares very favourably to that of the richer and older nations of Europe and North America.   Indians should be more aware, and perhaps more proud, of this tradition than they currently are. But the self-congratulation should not be excessive. For, even as we have welcomed in some 25 million refugees since 1950, in the same period we — that is to say, the people and government of India — have displaced roughly the same number of our own fellow citizens from their lands and villages.   There have been two major groups of ‘internal refugees’ in independent India; the victims of development projects, and the victims of social strife. Since 1950, perhaps as many as 20 million Indians have been ousted from their homes by new hydroelectric projects, mines, factories, roads, colleges and universities, and townships. Those displaced have come disproportionately from the class of small peasants, whereas the schemes they have had to make way for have benefited the urban middle and upper classes, as well as farmers with large landholdings.   In the early years of Independence, there was little protest at this displacement. Tribals and peasants who surrendered their lands to development schemes were persuaded that this was in the larger ‘national interest’. From the 1970s, however, social activists began to mobilize against forced displacement, on the legitimate grounds that those ousted by dams and factories were paid inadequate compensation, and were not provided any stake in these projects. Large dams were often the target; as with the protests against the Koel-Karo, Tehri and Narmada dams, which were important precursors to the more recent struggles against forcible land acquisition in Singur, Nandigram and Niyamgiri. There is one important difference, however; whereas the earlier protests were aimed at public-sector companies, these new movements of resistance have, as their twin targets, the State and the private corporations that its land acquisition policies seek to benefit.   Since 1950, some five million Indians have also been rendered homeless by sectarian or civil violence. After the bloodshed of Partition, Hindu-Muslim animosity was somewhat stilled by the shock and popular revulsion at the murder of Mahatma Gandhi. However, there were episodic riots in the 1960s and 1970s, and then — as a direct consequence of the sangh parivar’s Ayodhya movement — a more-or-less continuous stream of rioting between 1989 and 1993. The destruction of the Babri Masjid led to another lull, broken a decade later when Gujarat witnessed a horrific pogrom against Muslims.   For the most part, the main offenders in religious riots have been radical or extremist Hindus; the main sufferers, poor and vulnerable Muslims. There have been two major exceptions; the pogrom against the Sikhs in Delhi and some other northern cities in 1984, and the forced expulsion of Pandits from the Kashmir Valley by Islamic fundamentalists in 1989-90.   Other Indians have been displaced as a consequence of conflicts between the State and those who seek to challenge or overthrow it. The Naga and Mizo insurgencies, and the response of the Indian army to them, led to very many innocent villagers being killed or rendered homeless. More recently, the Maoist insurrection, and the State’s response to it, has also caused hundreds of thousands of Indians to abandon their homes to save their lives.   Religious violence and armed insurrection may have arisen independently of State action, but the policies — and practices — of the government of India have often contributed to their escalation. Because the homeless are abandoned by the State but provided succour by religious groups, there is a polarization of sectarian sentiment. Because the perpetrators of riots are never punished, there are always provocateurs available to start new (and more deadly) conflagrations.   There is an old line about India that some people are never tired of repeating — that of what can be truthfully said about this country the opposite is also true. A more evocative version of this aphorism, attributed to Jawaharlal Nehru, runs as follows: “India is home to all that is truly noble as well as truly disgusting in the human experience.” So it is with our refugee policy; honourable and admirable when it comes to treating victims of persecution from other lands, shameful and shocking with regard to the refugees created by economic and political developments within India. ramachandraguha at yahoo.in     From Image.Science at donau-uni.ac.at Wed Nov 10 19:35:57 2010 From: Image.Science at donau-uni.ac.at (Image Science) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:05:57 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Media Art History 2011 - REWIRE - Call for Papers now open Message-ID: <4CDAB4D50200007D0000BE3B@gwgwia.donau-uni.ac.at> Media Art History 2011 - REWIRE Fourth International Conference on the Histories of Media Art, Science and Technology Liverpool, 28th September - 1st October 2011 Call For Papers now open - Deadline Monday, January 31st 2011 http://www.mediaarthistory.org Host: FACT (Foundation for Art and Creative Technology), Liverpool In collaboration with academic partners: Liverpool John Moores University, CRUMB at the University of Sunderland, the Universities of the West of Scotland and Lancaster, and the Database of Virtual Art at the Dept. for Image Science. Following the success of Media Art History 05 Re:fresh in Banff, Media Art History 07 Re:place in Berlin and Media Art History 09 Re:live in Melbourne, Media Art History 11 Rewire will host three days of keynotes, panels and poster sessions. Media Art History 2011 - Rewire will increase the voltage and ignite key debates within the internationally distributed network of histories, which takes account of the questions surrounding documentation and methodologies, materiality, and agency. Rewire aims to up the current to illuminate the British contribution to media art, and by looking at our industrial heritage and contribution to the history of computing technologies themselves, we will open the discussion to how these contributions are manifested internationally. Considering the international scope of the histories of media art, science and technology, Rewire is also listed as part of the "McLuhan in Europe" programme, and will take place concurrently with The Asia Triennial in Manchester and Abandon Normal Devices, the North West's festival of new cinema and digital culture which returns to Liverpool in September 2011. The reviewers especially welcome proposals for presentations that resonate thematically with these events. We are looking for original research on: * The relations between art, science, technology and industry, both historically and now * New paradigms and alternative discourses for media art and media art history, such as, for example, craft, design, social media, or cybernetics * Local histories and practices of media art, including (but not limited to) Britain * Colonial experiences and non-Western histories of media art, science and technology * Media art history in relation to the biological, biomedical and ecological sciences * Relations between the histories of media art and those of computing and new technologies * Writing art history in a technologised and scientific culture, including the documentation of media art and how it is changed in a technologised and scientific culture * How the field of science and technology studies (STS) can offer useful models for new paradigms for art history General papers will be accepted. The conference will be delivered in a range of formats, from panel discussions to Pecha Kucha sessions and video poster presentations, as well as a small number of invited speakers. The programme will include competitively selected, peer-reviewed individual papers, panel presentations, and poster sessions, as well as a small number of invited speakers. Keynote Lectures, by internationally renowned, outstanding theoreticians and artists, will deliberate on the central themes of the conference and will include the Roy Stringer Memorial Lecture, held annually by FACT in memory of Roy Stringer, an early pioneer of digital media, champion of multimedia industries in the North West and Liverpool, and former Chair of the Board at FACT. The conference will also include dedicated forum sessions for participants to engage in more open-ended discussion and debate on relevant issues and questions. For the full Call for Papers, and to submit an abstract, please visit: http://www.mediaarthistory.org/rewire Chaired by Professor Mike Stubbs, Director of FACT, the panels at Rewire will be led by co-chairs - Paul Brown (Sussex, Deakin), Dr. Sarah Cook (CRUMB), Colin Davies (LJMU), Dr. Charlie Gere (Lancaster), Prof. Andy Miah (UWS), Prof. Ed Shanken (UvA) - on areas of their own expertise, and submissions will be juried by the co-chairs together with Rewire's International Advisory Committee of leading academics, artists and industry professionals. International Advisory Committee: Steven BALL, Tatiana BAZZICHELLI, Stuart COMER, Sean CUBITT, Dieter DANIELS, Sara DIAMOND, Vince DZIEKAN, Charles ESCHE, Sarah FISHER, Jean GAGNON, Graham HARWOOD, Erkki HUHTAMO, Nick LAMBERT, Debbi LANDER, Tapio MAKELA, Chris MEIGH-ANDREWS, Frieder NAKE, Taylor NUTTALL, Steve PARTRIDGE, Christiane PAUL, Ned ROSSITER, Paul SERMON, Jinsuk SUH, Brett STALBAUM, Julian STALLABRASS, Atau TANAKA, Andrea ZAPPPARTRIDGE, Christiane PAUL, Ned ROSSITER, Paul SERMON, Jinsuk SUH, Brett STALBAUM, Julian STALLABRASS, Atau TANAKA, Andrea ZAPP From aliens at dataone.in Wed Nov 10 19:36:06 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:36:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001401cb80e0$6ba00570$42e01050$@in> Why you are seeking answer from me for this. What I have earlier mentioned is Gujarat growth is healthy in agriculture and I have never mentioned that this turn around done by Narendra Modi only. The 2 reports, 1 from International Water management Institute, Sri Lanka and other from Institute of Resource Analysis and Policy, Hyderabad. I am not the authority to judge about these reports. Some expert panel can decide about both the report status. Gujarat govt. authority must have read this let us wait for their reaction. But, I can see major difference by way of increased in happiness of the farmers in this decade. This practical difference can be experience in these days while roaming in the villages of Gujarat compared to previous days. Also, those opposing Narmada dam must notice this report that narmada dam water benefited the farmers and gave positive results. Check dam benefits during monsoon only while narmada dam water benefits whole year and for ever. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:51 PM To: anupam chakravartty Cc: sarai list; bipin Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth Dear all The link for the report: http://irapindia.org/gujarat_s%20agricultural_april_2010.pdf Rakesh On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: Hi Bipin, I would like to know your views on the following news item that appeared this morning. Thanks "The study says that the "miracle" argument fails to take into account a crucial figure - fall of agricultural output by 30 per cent during two drought years, 1999 and 2000. Then, there is yet another distortion - the 9.6 per cent growth rate is on current prices, which means that the "figures are not corrected for inflation". It underlines, "The 'growth' observed in the recent past (2002 onwards) is nothing but a good recovery from a major dip in production occurred during the drought years of 1999 and 2000." The state officials are examining the study. The study also disputes the argument that dependence on rainfall went down in Gujarat due to a large number of check dams built in the state in 1999-2000. The highest growth, 22 per cent, during 1980-2006, was on account of milk production. As for crops like cotton and groundnut, "with good monsoons, production grew substantially with steady expansion in cropped area or yield growth", but in drought years "production suffered with shrinkage in area under irrigated winter crops, and sharp reduction in yield of crops sown in kharif, including cotton and groundnut". Read more: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-mi racle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat Thanks Anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 19:40:00 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:40:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth In-Reply-To: <001401cb80e0$6ba00570$42e01050$@in> References: <001401cb80e0$6ba00570$42e01050$@in> Message-ID: Thank you Bipin for your opinion. Anupam ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bipin Trivedi Date: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth To: Rakesh Iyer Cc: sarai-list Why you are seeking answer from me for this. What I have earlier mentioned is Gujarat growth is healthy in agriculture and I have never mentioned that this turn around done by Narendra Modi only. The 2 reports, 1 from International Water management Institute, Sri Lanka and other from Institute of Resource Analysis and Policy, Hyderabad. I am not the authority to judge about these reports. Some expert panel can decide about both the report status. Gujarat govt. authority must have read this let us wait for their reaction. But, I can see major difference by way of increased in happiness of the farmers in this decade. This practical difference can be experience in these days while roaming in the villages of Gujarat compared to previous days. Also, those opposing Narmada dam must notice this report that narmada dam water benefited the farmers and gave positive results. Check dam benefits during monsoon only while narmada dam water benefits whole year and for ever. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:51 PM To: anupam chakravartty Cc: sarai list; bipin Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth Dear all The link for the report: http://irapindia.org/gujarat_s%20agricultural_april_2010.pdf Rakesh On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: Hi Bipin, I would like to know your views on the following news item that appeared this morning. Thanks "The study says that the "miracle" argument fails to take into account a crucial figure - fall of agricultural output by 30 per cent during two drought years, 1999 and 2000. Then, there is yet another distortion - the 9.6 per cent growth rate is on current prices, which means that the "figures are not corrected for inflation". It underlines, "The 'growth' observed in the recent past (2002 onwards) is nothing but a good recovery from a major dip in production occurred during the drought years of 1999 and 2000." The state officials are examining the study. The study also disputes the argument that dependence on rainfall went down in Gujarat due to a large number of check dams built in the state in 1999-2000. The highest growth, 22 per cent, during 1980-2006, was on account of milk production. As for crops like cotton and groundnut, "with good monsoons, production grew substantially with steady expansion in cropped area or yield growth", but in drought years "production suffered with shrinkage in area under irrigated winter crops, and sharp reduction in yield of crops sown in kharif, including cotton and groundnut". Read more: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-mi racle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat Thanks Anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 20:06:28 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 20:06:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth In-Reply-To: <001401cb80e0$6ba00570$42e01050$@in> References: <001401cb80e0$6ba00570$42e01050$@in> Message-ID: Hi Bipin I am completely stunned, considering that when anything good comes, Narendra Modi's name is the first to be taken by you. It seems Gujarat was some sort of a hell before Modi came in and performed the actions which only the Genie could have done when Alladin rubbed the lamp. Anyways, regarding Narmada dam project, let me state you two things which the presenters of the paper haven't put and you can also know: a) Firstly, Medha Patkar, in her first 10 years of activism, was not at all asking for the dam not to be built. She was only interested in rehabilitation in a proper way for the displaced. That, I hope you will agree, is not a wrong thing to be done. She turned against the dam because in those 10 years, neither the Maharashtra nor the Madhya Pradesh state governments did anything to really rehabilitate the tribals. That the Central Government also contributed to it was a bigger sham. Moreover, there were alternate routes to making the dam, but this route was particularly chosen. b) The dam was being built mainly to provide water to the parched areas of Gujarat like Kutch and Saurashtra, while electricity was to be generated for Madhya Pradesh. Today, water has not reached most parts of Saurashtra and Kutch even after so many years of this project, and as for the status of electricity generation, the less said the better. The water has been obtained only for regions which had planned to use it anyways: Ahmedabad, Baroda and other urban centers which anyways have more rainfall in a year compared to regions in Kutch and Saurashtra. I have nothing against irrigation as such, but Sardar Sarovar Dam project was a project which should not have been taken up. In fact, the World Bank itself withdrew its funds to the project after realizing not even proper assessments of water supply and irrigation based on the scheme have been undertaken. Now you may not trust me. What about the World Bank? Rakesh On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > > Why you are seeking answer from me for this. What I have earlier mentioned > is Gujarat growth is healthy in agriculture and I have never mentioned that > this turn around done by Narendra Modi only. > > > > The 2 reports, 1 from International Water management Institute, Sri Lankaand other from Institute of Resource Analysis and Policy, Hyderabad. I am > not the authority to judge about these reports. Some expert panel can decide > about both the report status. Gujarat govt. authority must have read this > let us wait for their reaction. But, I can see major difference by way of > increased in happiness of the farmers in this decade. This practical > difference can be experience in these days while roaming in the villages of > Gujarat compared to previous days. Also, those opposing Narmada dam must > notice this report that narmada dam water benefited the farmers and gave > positive results. Check dam benefits during monsoon only while narmada dam > water benefits whole year and for ever. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > *From:* Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:51 PM > *To:* anupam chakravartty > *Cc:* sarai list; bipin > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in > agriculture growth > > > > Dear all > > The link for the report: > > http://irapindia.org/gujarat_s%20agricultural_april_2010.pdf > > Rakesh > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > Hi Bipin, > > I would like to know your views on the following news item that appeared > this morning. > > Thanks > > "The study says that the "miracle" argument fails to take into account a > crucial figure - fall of agricultural output by 30 per cent during two > drought years, 1999 and 2000. > > > Then, there is yet another distortion - the 9.6 per cent growth rate is on > current prices, which means that the "figures are not corrected for > inflation". > > It underlines, "The 'growth' observed in the recent past (2002 onwards) is > nothing but a good recovery from a major dip in production occurred during > the drought years of 1999 and 2000." The state officials are examining the > study. > > The study also disputes the argument that dependence on rainfall went down > in Gujarat due to a large number of check dams built in the state in > 1999-2000. > > The highest growth, 22 per cent, during 1980-2006, was on account of milk > production. As for crops like cotton and groundnut, "with good monsoons, > production grew substantially with steady expansion in cropped area or > yield > growth", but in drought years "production suffered with shrinkage in area > under irrigated winter crops, and sharp reduction in yield of crops sown in > kharif, including cotton and groundnut". > > Read more: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth - The > Times of India< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-miracle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-miracle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat > > Thanks > Anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Nov 10 21:25:12 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:55:12 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Geographic dichotomy of Indian Muslims References: Message-ID: <07BFCE623D774FA891DC4EBB3C3C64EB@tara> Good instructional tool for the "halal hippies" on the list who pretend to be secular but play in the hands of the communal leadership playing God from the North. As someone who always questions homogenizing religious identities, I wouldn't agree with homogenizing of South or North Indian Muslims. Some of them in South India look for orders from North India and some even go further to Pakistan and some go even further to Al Qaeda wherever it is. On the other hand I know practising Muslims from North India who hate these Muslims who thrive on the politics of fear and hatred. And then there are Hindus, who would criticize Muslims for their backwardness but when it comes to marrying once again, they would like to convert. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rajkamal Goswami" To: "sarai list" Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:06 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Geographic dichotomy of Indian Muslims > Dear Fellow readers on the reader's list, > > An excellent article by Mr. Siraj in Tehelka over the geographic > dichotomy of Indian Muslims over identity politics. > > thanks > Rajkamal > > link: > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main47.asp?filename=Op131110South_Indian.asp > > > Read....... > > 'South Indian Muslims are not keen on issues related to identity’ > > THE AYODHYA tangle that kept the communal pot on the boil is not going > to unravel anytime soon. But the conspicuous absence of triumphalism > on the part of the majority community and restraint on the part of > Muslims signifies the changed mood of the nation. The verdict may have > gift-wrapped the major slice of the booty to the litigants responsible > for the historic mayhem, but it has also emphasised that solutions > could still be worked out if pragmatism is not discarded from the > lexicon of the disputants. > > > Notwithstanding the dismay over the verdict, the dominant view among > the Muslims in south India is that it serves no purpose to mortgage > their existence to identity-related issues. Much unlike their northern > counterparts, the 20 million Muslims in the south see their future > tethered to how the majority thinks, aspires, acts and behaves. It > stems from the view that a minority has to work with and within the > majority society and traditional religious institutions such as > mosques and madrassas are unlikely to work in a modern world in which > success and social mobility are tied to the mastery of scientific and > technical skills. > > Much of India’s Muslim leadership comes from states where Muslims are > more numerous but not necessarily more enlightened. So in any national > Muslim conclave, the pragmatic voices, especially from the south, get > suppressed under the rhetoric-laced Urdu poetry from conservative > leaders who do nothing other than sing paeans of past glory. Pleas to > modernise madrassa curriculum, divert charities to more productive > uses like schools, hospitals, for building centres for small artisans > and convention halls and scholarship for students, are pooh-poohed. > Blame for deficiency in terms of development is conveniently laid at > the doors of the government. Emotive issues such as the Shah Bano > controversy over alimony, Satanic Verses, Taslima Nasreen, three > talaqs, Arab marriages and Babri Masjid, therefore, come handy to keep > the millat’s emotional pot boiling. This orthodox leadership from the > north feels something seriously amiss if some such issue is not there > at hand. > > True, the migration of the middle class and professionals in the wake > of Partition emptied the north of leadership material. Also true that > identity became an obsession in the wake of India opting for a secular > dispensation. But is it not worth considering that secularism was the > most civilised response from Nehruvian India to the subcontinent’s > traumatic partition on communal lines? Was India not being charitable > to its residual Muslim minority by opting out of Hindu Rashtra? > Institutional biases against Muslims were natural in the wake of > Partition. But the Muslim leadership walked into the trap laid by > Hindutva forces at every turn. Not able to identify its priorities in > an India of 20th century, it has hopped from crisis to crisis, all > based on issues that relate to it religious identity. > > > Looking forward The Muslim leadership in the north believes that > madrassas are good enough for the boys > > PHOTO: TRILOCHAN S KALRA > > This obsession with keeping religion in the forefront has resulted in > reinforcing conservatism in the community, spawning resistance against > reform and change. But the situation of Muslims, more so where they > are in a minority (nearly 30 percent of the 1.65 billion Muslims > around the world), is vociferously urging change. An individual Muslim > feels the heat of change at every step. But those who have assumed the > mantle of leadership stand resolutely against it, dubbing all changes > to stem from enemies of Islam. There is this plea for avoiding so much > of controversy over sighting of the moon for Eid-ul-Fitr every year by > taking the help of astronomers who can fix the lunar calendar for the > next 3,000 years. But the clergy has nothing but contempt for such > ‘extraneous’ help. Consequently, Muslims in India celebrate Eid on two > or three days. In British India, they celebrated it on a single day > from Karachi to Rangoon. > > TWO MUSLIM-MANAGED colleges, one each in Chennai and Bengaluru, closed > down their hotel management and catering institutes five years ago. > Reason: Deoband-trained clerics opined that Muslim institutions should > not teach how to serve wine and handle pork, even though these were > included among hundreds of other skills such institutions impart. > Muslim culinary traditions and skills make others drool over fares > served by Muslim hotels all over the country, yet the Muslim students > cannot be taught how to blend culinary and hospitality skills in > institutions managed by the community. Would it stop them from > learning it elsewhere? Perhaps not. It would have been instructive if > they would have looked into how Jews and Jains run their hotel > management institutes. These communities follow much stricter kosher > and vegetarian diets. > > Hell broke loose in the town of Vaniyambadi in Tamil Nadu where a > mosque opened its portals for women and reserved the upper chamber for > them. The mosque committee was forced to withdraw the facility by the > Deobandi clique. They had not committed any sin. All mosques in the > Middle East allow women to pray inside. Even the mosques affiliated to > Ahle-e-Hadith and Shafii sects all over south India have this > facility. > > Pragmatic voices from the south get suppressed under the > rhetoric-laced conservative talk > > As a social worker, I have guided nearly 10,000 students since 1987 > through career counselling, providing scholarships, orientation on > life skills and textbooks. I see a distinct dislike among Muslim boys > for veterinary courses and among girls opting for nursing. There is a > fear that veterinary course would have piggery and nursing would > entail attending to male patients. Islamic traditions point out that > the Holy Prophet’s foster mother Umme Ayman and one of the holy > companions, Khaula bint Zarar, used to serve as nurses in the > battlefield. > > But in 20th century India, to err on the conservative side is > considered a merit in matters of interpreting Islam among the clergy. > What a pity! These clerics outstoop each other to produce a more > conservative interpretation, no matter how out of sync it sounds with > the time and society they are living in. When cameras came, > photography was declared illegitimate by the clergy. Over the century, > this interpretation was extended to television, cinema, videography, > X-ray, animation and cartoons. > > This regression among Muslims is directly related to the repulsion > bred against the innovative spirit in the Muslim psyche through an > outmoded theological education. Reformists within Muslims live in fear > of being declared heretics. It happened with 19th century reformer Sir > Syed Ahmed Khan, the founder of the Muslim Anglo Oriental College, > Aligarh. Poet Sir Mohammed Iqbal missed this embarrassment by a hair’s > breadth. Dividends are petering off and the immiserisation of the > community is leading to its complete downfall. > > Muslims must understand that building an identity and politics around > emotive issues simply will not work. Trumpeting victimhood in no way > takes the community forward. But those who feel the pulse of the > changing world and attune themselves to it, survive, thrive and even > rise from the ashes of wars. > -- > Rajkamal > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Wed Nov 10 22:49:02 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 22:49:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth In-Reply-To: References: <001401cb80e0$6ba00570$42e01050$@in> Message-ID: <000901cb80fb$5fa77df0$1ef679d0$@in> Dear Rakesh, I have never said earlier that what today Gujarat is only due to Narendra Modi. Please see bellow one para of my reply to you only earlier. In the field of infrastructural development, Gujarat is way ahead than many ways than the other state. Gujarat roads were much better even before reforms started and it was agreed by tourist come over here, in power sector Gujarat is always ahead and almost having today uninterrupted power including villages. For this Gujarat is paying highest tariff for power and lowest power theft than rest of the India and this is the reason they get uninterrupted supply. Similarly it has highest no. of ports and this is due to their long seashore and highest no. domestic airports than any other states. Reason is, since their establishments, Gujarat has not given any subsidies by any means. No free electricity to farmers and they are paying as per norms only, never given any subsidize rice or such other thing but still Gujarat is ahead of all the state in many criteria. It gives highest income to central govt. highest investment in share market, post office saving, banks. Prosperity of Gujarat was there and Narendra Modi has just speeded this up by improving govt. efficiency by having total control over IAS cadre, minimize corruption, made govt. PSU profitable. This is not small things. Gujarat has shown progress without subsidy is the proof of my argument. More than enough discussion made earlier on narmada dam topic. Thanks Bipin Trivedi From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:06 PM To: Bipin Trivedi Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth Hi Bipin I am completely stunned, considering that when anything good comes, Narendra Modi's name is the first to be taken by you. It seems Gujarat was some sort of a hell before Modi came in and performed the actions which only the Genie could have done when Alladin rubbed the lamp. Anyways, regarding Narmada dam project, let me state you two things which the presenters of the paper haven't put and you can also know: a) Firstly, Medha Patkar, in her first 10 years of activism, was not at all asking for the dam not to be built. She was only interested in rehabilitation in a proper way for the displaced. That, I hope you will agree, is not a wrong thing to be done. She turned against the dam because in those 10 years, neither the Maharashtra nor the Madhya Pradesh state governments did anything to really rehabilitate the tribals. That the Central Government also contributed to it was a bigger sham. Moreover, there were alternate routes to making the dam, but this route was particularly chosen. b) The dam was being built mainly to provide water to the parched areas of Gujarat like Kutch and Saurashtra, while electricity was to be generated for Madhya Pradesh. Today, water has not reached most parts of Saurashtra and Kutch even after so many years of this project, and as for the status of electricity generation, the less said the better. The water has been obtained only for regions which had planned to use it anyways: Ahmedabad, Baroda and other urban centers which anyways have more rainfall in a year compared to regions in Kutch and Saurashtra. I have nothing against irrigation as such, but Sardar Sarovar Dam project was a project which should not have been taken up. In fact, the World Bank itself withdrew its funds to the project after realizing not even proper assessments of water supply and irrigation based on the scheme have been undertaken. Now you may not trust me. What about the World Bank? Rakesh On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote:   Why you are seeking answer from me for this. What I have earlier mentioned is Gujarat growth is healthy in agriculture and I have never mentioned that this turn around done by Narendra Modi only.   The 2 reports, 1 from International Water management Institute, Sri Lanka and other from Institute of Resource Analysis and Policy, Hyderabad. I am not the authority to judge about these reports. Some expert panel can decide about both the report status. Gujarat govt. authority must have read this let us wait for their reaction. But, I can see major difference by way of increased in happiness of the farmers in this decade. This practical difference can be experience in these days while roaming in the villages of Gujarat compared to previous days. Also, those opposing Narmada dam must notice this report that narmada dam water benefited the farmers and gave positive results. Check dam benefits during monsoon only while narmada dam water benefits whole year and for ever.   Thanks Bipin Trivedi     From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:51 PM To: anupam chakravartty Cc: sarai list; bipin Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth   Dear all The link for the report: http://irapindia.org/gujarat_s%20agricultural_april_2010.pdf Rakesh On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: Hi Bipin, I would like to know your views on the following news item that appeared this morning. Thanks "The study says that the "miracle" argument fails to take into account a crucial figure - fall of agricultural output by 30 per cent during two drought years, 1999 and 2000. Then, there is yet another distortion - the 9.6 per cent growth rate is on current prices, which means that the "figures are not corrected for inflation". It underlines, "The 'growth' observed in the recent past (2002 onwards) is nothing but a good recovery from a major dip in production occurred during the drought years of 1999 and 2000." The state officials are examining the study. The study also disputes the argument that dependence on rainfall went down in Gujarat due to a large number of check dams built in the state in 1999-2000. The highest growth, 22 per cent, during 1980-2006, was on account of milk production. As for crops like cotton and groundnut, "with good monsoons, production grew substantially with steady expansion in cropped area or yield growth", but in drought years "production suffered with shrinkage in area under irrigated winter crops, and sharp reduction in yield of crops sown in kharif, including cotton and groundnut". Read more: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-mi racle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat Thanks Anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>   From samvitr at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 08:46:46 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:46:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Kashmir=92s_Fruits_of_Discord_=28o?= =?windows-1252?q?r_a_discordant_arundhati_roy=3F=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <60870.31094.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anupam, You have pronounced the judgment. It seems Arundhati will be hip-hopping to Bodo cause now. The point I was trying to draw home was that while Mata Arundhati is whining about her tragedy to a capitalist newspaper about 25 people got killed in a single day in Assam. If the same thing would have happened in Kashmir she would have wailed her heart out. Is it that she is not getting funded for talking about the Bodos or the Assamese/other settlers. Perhaps the Geelanies and Masarat Alams of Bodoland have not outsourced their issue to her, not yet. -SR On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:54 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Samvit, > > Raking up an issue about Bodos in this public fora without knowing that > Bodos are the indigenous people in Assam suffering neglect and exploitation > in hands of Assamese as well as other settlers is tragic. Do you know > security forces have killed thousands over the years for those demanded > Bodoland for themselves? What do you know about the Bodoland issue? How come > Bodos also killed the so called Bangladeshis encroaching their lands? This > issue was raised in forum a year back about Muslim camps hosting a Pakistani > flag when riots broke out between Bodos and Muslims near Barpeta. > > Please stop using identatitarian issues for your narrow gains in debate at a > public forum. your comparitive analysis doesnt dilute the topic that is > being discussed here. > > anupam > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Samvit wrote: >> >> Pretty surprising I didn't find her taking on the Bodo's after they >> killed about 20-25 people in Assam yesterday. Or were the Bodos also >> part of that Conclave where we had the rookies from India's underbelly >> trying to gang up? >> Or maybe Arundhati and her cronies feel that they would NOT make much >> news if they talk about the Bodos or the people who were murdered. >> Perhaps Arundhati and co are yet to decide which side to butter!!! >> >> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > that arundhati roy has lost a sense of reality was being suspected for >> > quite some time and became evident in her statement after the protest by the >> > bjp mahila wing at her house on 31/10/10 >> > >> > her latest article  in nyt only confirms it >> > >> > she writes "I wasn’t arrested that night. Instead, in what is becoming a >> > common political strategy, officials outsourced their displeasure to the >> > mob. A few days after I returned home, the women’s wing of the Bharatiya >> > Janata Party (the right-wing Hindu nationalist opposition) staged a >> > demonstration outside my house, calling for my arrest." >> > >> > so, according to arundhati the officials (in delhi) 'outsourced their >> > displeasure' to (of all the people) " the women’s wing of the Bharatiya >> > Janata Party" ........ quite a collusion between the ...congress govt and >> > the bjp ..... all because of arundhati ...... somewhat self-delusional of >> > her >> > >> > the self-delusion is also reflected in her (kind of suggesting) that no >> > one should file court cases against her >> > >> > she writes "The murderous Bajrang Dal, a militant Hindu group that, in >> > 2002, spearheaded attacks against Muslims in Gujarat in which more than a >> > thousand people were killed, have announced that they are going to “fix” me >> > with all the means at their disposal, including by filing criminal charges >> > against me in different courts across the country." >> > >> > (much as i detest them) what is wrong with bajrang dal or any other >> > organisation or individual "filing criminal charges" against arundhati "in >> > different courts across the country"? for sure it would be harassment but >> > arundhati should expect that as a counter for her version of the truth >> > ...... nothing illegal about it ......... no human rights abuse in it .... >> > it is the 'aazadi' of approaching a court of law (or many) with a complaint >> > >> > tale piece : there has to be a tale to be found in arundhati's rancour >> > against and dissatisfaction with obama (in his india visit) being discordant >> > with arundhati's separatist brothers of kashmir's stone age being "jubilant" >> > over obama >> > >> > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/9/separatists-jubilant-37.asp >> > >> > >> > .............. aalok aima >> > >> > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/opinion/09roy.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all >> > arundhati has earlier written screenplays >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 11:43:05 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:43:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Kashmir=92s_Fruits_of_Discord_=28o?= =?windows-1252?q?r_a_discordant_arundhati_roy=3F=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <60870.31094.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Samvit, I frankly do not care what Arundhati Roy has to say about the Bodo cause or kashmir. She is not a government functionary or party to the conflict in Assam or where ever. However, her participation is a problem for several people on this list including you because she could have been the mascot of the "shining" India but instead she is seen siding with dissident forces. It is not a problem for me. I am questioning you Samvit for raking up an issue which could have been addressed in seperate head altogether in this forum itself. Such conjunctions distort if not dilute the Bodo issue. And yes you have no idea what happened exactly in Rowta, Baksa and Karbi Anglong over the last few days. You have no idea as to why there is an anti talks faction within National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB). You have no idea why there are designated camps for the extremists in the jungles of Arunachal. Your sentiments for your fellow indians who have been killed in this incident is evidently very plastic as you expect that such arguments would go a long way in branding Roy and others. However, let me congratulate for understanding this one basic fact that writers are also human and need funds to write and survive. All this while, I thought that you assumed them to be this all powerful, omniscient beings, which is why seeing them in a gymnasium with a certain kind of clothing was such a problem for you. Unfortunately, when it comes to the "funding" bit about the steel or large hydro electric concerns, you and several others quietly assume the position of that ideal "lay" person. You know it very well when to hound people about funds and when to keep mum, so even if i question about your ideas on Bodo issue, it is bound to be some lopsided police-security version of this issue. How about educating you on the Bodo issue? I dont think you deserve that kind of education in this or any other issue, it is bound to be distorted by you and your likes. And wait, as far as I can recall you seem to know the charitable activities of RSS. A press note by RSS circulated among the cross section of media says that RSS cadres laid down their lives fighting militants in north east. Which cadres? Where? Is RSS counting innocent traders from north india caught in the cross fire? Anupam On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Samvit wrote: > Anupam, > You have pronounced the judgment. It seems Arundhati will be > hip-hopping to Bodo cause now. The point I was trying to draw home was > that while Mata Arundhati is whining about her tragedy to a capitalist > newspaper about 25 people got killed in a single day in Assam. If the > same thing would have happened in Kashmir she would have wailed her > heart out. Is it that she is not getting funded for talking about the > Bodos or the Assamese/other settlers. Perhaps the Geelanies and > Masarat Alams of Bodoland have not outsourced their issue to her, not > yet. > -SR > > > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:54 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > Samvit, > > > > Raking up an issue about Bodos in this public fora without knowing that > > Bodos are the indigenous people in Assam suffering neglect and > exploitation > > in hands of Assamese as well as other settlers is tragic. Do you know > > security forces have killed thousands over the years for those demanded > > Bodoland for themselves? What do you know about the Bodoland issue? How > come > > Bodos also killed the so called Bangladeshis encroaching their lands? > This > > issue was raised in forum a year back about Muslim camps hosting a > Pakistani > > flag when riots broke out between Bodos and Muslims near Barpeta. > > > > Please stop using identatitarian issues for your narrow gains in debate > at a > > public forum. your comparitive analysis doesnt dilute the topic that is > > being discussed here. > > > > anupam > > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Samvit wrote: > >> > >> Pretty surprising I didn't find her taking on the Bodo's after they > >> killed about 20-25 people in Assam yesterday. Or were the Bodos also > >> part of that Conclave where we had the rookies from India's underbelly > >> trying to gang up? > >> Or maybe Arundhati and her cronies feel that they would NOT make much > >> news if they talk about the Bodos or the people who were murdered. > >> Perhaps Arundhati and co are yet to decide which side to butter!!! > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Aalok Aima > wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > that arundhati roy has lost a sense of reality was being suspected for > >> > quite some time and became evident in her statement after the protest > by the > >> > bjp mahila wing at her house on 31/10/10 > >> > > >> > her latest article in nyt only confirms it > >> > > >> > she writes "I wasn’t arrested that night. Instead, in what is becoming > a > >> > common political strategy, officials outsourced their displeasure to > the > >> > mob. A few days after I returned home, the women’s wing of the > Bharatiya > >> > Janata Party (the right-wing Hindu nationalist opposition) staged a > >> > demonstration outside my house, calling for my arrest." > >> > > >> > so, according to arundhati the officials (in delhi) 'outsourced their > >> > displeasure' to (of all the people) " the women’s wing of the > Bharatiya > >> > Janata Party" ........ quite a collusion between the ...congress govt > and > >> > the bjp ..... all because of arundhati ...... somewhat self-delusional > of > >> > her > >> > > >> > the self-delusion is also reflected in her (kind of suggesting) that > no > >> > one should file court cases against her > >> > > >> > she writes "The murderous Bajrang Dal, a militant Hindu group that, in > >> > 2002, spearheaded attacks against Muslims in Gujarat in which more > than a > >> > thousand people were killed, have announced that they are going to > “fix” me > >> > with all the means at their disposal, including by filing criminal > charges > >> > against me in different courts across the country." > >> > > >> > (much as i detest them) what is wrong with bajrang dal or any other > >> > organisation or individual "filing criminal charges" against arundhati > "in > >> > different courts across the country"? for sure it would be harassment > but > >> > arundhati should expect that as a counter for her version of the truth > >> > ...... nothing illegal about it ......... no human rights abuse in it > .... > >> > it is the 'aazadi' of approaching a court of law (or many) with a > complaint > >> > > >> > tale piece : there has to be a tale to be found in arundhati's rancour > >> > against and dissatisfaction with obama (in his india visit) > being discordant > >> > with arundhati's separatist brothers of kashmir's stone age being > "jubilant" > >> > over obama > >> > > >> > > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/9/separatists-jubilant-37.asp > >> > > >> > > >> > .............. aalok aima > >> > > >> > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/opinion/09roy.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all > >> > arundhati has earlier written screenplays > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 12:36:50 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:36:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth In-Reply-To: <000901cb80fb$5fa77df0$1ef679d0$@in> References: <001401cb80e0$6ba00570$42e01050$@in> <000901cb80fb$5fa77df0$1ef679d0$@in> Message-ID: Hi Bipin, How it is that you went on posting the development scenario of Gujarat earlier? How is it that you also accused one of the list members for being a spokesperson for a writer while you went on posting stuff about Modi administration? And which roads are you referring to? Roads in Ahmedabad meant for Mass Rapid Transit System which are being used alternatively by sports bikers at night. And Gujarat might not be getting subsidies from the centre but the state government is major subsidies to industries in acquisition of land. How is that possible? Anupam On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > Dear Rakesh, > > I have never said earlier that what today Gujarat is only due to Narendra > Modi. Please see bellow one para of my reply to you only earlier. > > In the field of infrastructural development, Gujarat is way ahead than many > ways than the other state. Gujarat roads were much better even before > reforms started and it was agreed by tourist come over here, in power > sector > Gujarat is always ahead and almost having today uninterrupted power > including villages. For this Gujarat is paying highest tariff for power and > lowest power theft than rest of the India and this is the reason they get > uninterrupted supply. Similarly it has highest no. of ports and this is due > to their long seashore and highest no. domestic airports than any other > states. Reason is, since their establishments, Gujarat has not given any > subsidies by any means. No free electricity to farmers and they are paying > as per norms only, never given any subsidize rice or such other thing but > still Gujarat is ahead of all the state in many criteria. It gives highest > income to central govt. highest investment in share market, post office > saving, banks. Prosperity of Gujarat was there and Narendra Modi has just > speeded this up by improving govt. efficiency by having total control over > IAS cadre, minimize corruption, made govt. PSU profitable. This is not > small > things. Gujarat has shown progress without subsidy is the proof of my > argument. > > More than enough discussion made earlier on narmada dam topic. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:06 PM > To: Bipin Trivedi > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture > growth > > Hi Bipin > > I am completely stunned, considering that when anything good comes, > Narendra > Modi's name is the first to be taken by you. It seems Gujarat was some sort > of a hell before Modi came in and performed the actions which only the > Genie > could have done when Alladin rubbed the lamp. > > Anyways, regarding Narmada dam project, let me state you two things which > the presenters of the paper haven't put and you can also know: > > a) Firstly, Medha Patkar, in her first 10 years of activism, was not at all > asking for the dam not to be built. She was only interested in > rehabilitation in a proper way for the displaced. That, I hope you will > agree, is not a wrong thing to be done. She turned against the dam because > in those 10 years, neither the Maharashtra nor the Madhya Pradesh state > governments did anything to really rehabilitate the tribals. That the > Central Government also contributed to it was a bigger sham. > > Moreover, there were alternate routes to making the dam, but this route was > particularly chosen. > > b) The dam was being built mainly to provide water to the parched areas of > Gujarat like Kutch and Saurashtra, while electricity was to be generated > for > Madhya Pradesh. Today, water has not reached most parts of Saurashtra and > Kutch even after so many years of this project, and as for the status of > electricity generation, the less said the better. > > The water has been obtained only for regions which had planned to use it > anyways: Ahmedabad, Baroda and other urban centers which anyways have more > rainfall in a year compared to regions in Kutch and Saurashtra. > > I have nothing against irrigation as such, but Sardar Sarovar Dam project > was a project which should not have been taken up. In fact, the World Bank > itself withdrew its funds to the project after realizing not even proper > assessments of water supply and irrigation based on the scheme have been > undertaken. > > Now you may not trust me. What about the World Bank? > > Rakesh > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi wrote: > > Why you are seeking answer from me for this. What I have earlier mentioned > is Gujarat growth is healthy in agriculture and I have never mentioned that > this turn around done by Narendra Modi only. > > The 2 reports, 1 from International Water management Institute, Sri Lanka > and other from Institute of Resource Analysis and Policy, Hyderabad. I am > not the authority to judge about these reports. Some expert panel can > decide > about both the report status. Gujarat govt. authority must have read this > let us wait for their reaction. But, I can see major difference by way of > increased in happiness of the farmers in this decade. This practical > difference can be experience in these days while roaming in the villages of > Gujarat compared to previous days. Also, those opposing Narmada dam must > notice this report that narmada dam water benefited the farmers and gave > positive results. Check dam benefits during monsoon only while narmada dam > water benefits whole year and for ever. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:51 PM > To: anupam chakravartty > Cc: sarai list; bipin > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture > growth > > Dear all > > The link for the report: > > http://irapindia.org/gujarat_s%20agricultural_april_2010.pdf > > Rakesh > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > Hi Bipin, > > I would like to know your views on the following news item that appeared > this morning. > > Thanks > > "The study says that the "miracle" argument fails to take into account a > crucial figure - fall of agricultural output by 30 per cent during two > drought years, 1999 and 2000. > > > Then, there is yet another distortion - the 9.6 per cent growth rate is on > current prices, which means that the "figures are not corrected for > inflation". > > It underlines, "The 'growth' observed in the recent past (2002 onwards) is > nothing but a good recovery from a major dip in production occurred during > the drought years of 1999 and 2000." The state officials are examining the > study. > > The study also disputes the argument that dependence on rainfall went down > in Gujarat due to a large number of check dams built in the state in > 1999-2000. > > The highest growth, 22 per cent, during 1980-2006, was on account of milk > production. As for crops like cotton and groundnut, "with good monsoons, > production grew substantially with steady expansion in cropped area or > yield > growth", but in drought years "production suffered with shrinkage in area > under irrigated winter crops, and sharp reduction in yield of crops sown in > kharif, including cotton and groundnut". > > Read more: Study disputes Gujarat's miracle in agriculture growth - The > Times of > India< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujar > ats-miracle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat> > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Study-disputes-Gujarats-mi > racle-in-agriculture-growth/articleshow/6897547.cms#ixzz14r5xAFat > > Thanks > Anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From adilmatin at yahoo.co.in Fri Nov 5 21:33:52 2010 From: adilmatin at yahoo.co.in (Adilmatin) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 21:33:52 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] [mcrc_jamia_alumni] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar Message-ID: <170053.59261.qm@web94205.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear yousuf, I appreciate your concern but my information is that these children are local residents and their parents are zari workers. I know this because I stay in the locality next to the batla house area. This is just a preconceived notion that because some Muslim leaders have done something like this in the past, therefore, they are always wrong. Specially When we compare such local politicians with the 'word' NGO. You must be aware about the scams and the scandals associated with the 'word' NGO, but we can not generalise all of them. Adil Matin Vice President Information TV-Indianews Channel Sent from my iPad On 04-Nov-2010, at 8:23 AM, Yousuf wrote: Dear all Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these children and were taking them away, but their operation failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around them and snatched all the children back. They spread the rumour that the activists were “conspiring against Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children. The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php) This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central university whose many staff, teachers and students reside here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre, Gandhian studies and host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the lamp there seems darkness. This is not the first time that the local people used the “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to improve their lot. Of course there has been a lot of insecurity due to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light of the generalisations made by the media and the police about the people of this area. But this can also have a different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local backlash, the authorities have decided in the recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal construction of apartment buildings in the already narrow and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the zari factories are all part of the growing monster that this area has become. And the religious identity is a good excuse to allow the monstrosity to grow larger. Of course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent CW games didn’t touch this area in any way. I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing here hoping that at least some discussion or debate could ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. But more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood needs a street-level debate on how not to use the religious identity for petty issues, and how real are these “conspiracies against Muslims”. Any ideas? Yousuf Saeed ---- Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient attitude of administration On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted a raid and rescue operation in their effort to eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child labourers in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue operation. Children in this area were involved in the zari works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years to 13 years of age. The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children and they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out of nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who introduced themselves as some members of a political organization, along with the owners of the industry came and interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two person propagated a communal flavour during conversation with our team members and motivated the people by saying that these people are against Muslims. As a result of their interruption the local people started gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials and the people from the labour department remained standing as mere spectators and most of them disappeared from the spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated indecently by the owners and the two so called local leaders namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did not take any action and at last we had to return back empty handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said in this context “This happened because of the inefficient attitude of the administration but our activists will continue this movement against those who are responsible for creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued children are rescued in that area Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate authority to take proper action against who interrupted the official work by sustaining the rescue operation and forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php Also see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) RECENT ACTIVITY: Visit Your Group MARKETPLACE Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests. Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center. Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___ From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Nov 11 13:03:47 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 13:03:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [mcrc_jamia_alumni] A failed child-labour rescue and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar In-Reply-To: <170053.59261.qm@web94205.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <170053.59261.qm@web94205.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear friends, This essay may help in the discussions. Nieuwenhuys, Olga. (1998). Global childhood and the politics of contempt, Alternatives, 23,. 267–89. ...CSDS, Delhi warmly jeebesh On 05-Nov-10, at 9:33 PM, Adilmatin wrote: > Dear yousuf, I appreciate your concern but my information is that > these children are local residents and their parents are zari > workers. I know this because I stay in the locality next to the > batla house area. This is just a preconceived notion that because > some Muslim leaders have done something like this in the past, > therefore, they are always wrong. Specially When we compare such > local politicians with the 'word' NGO. You must be aware about the > scams and the scandals associated with the 'word' NGO, but we can > not generalise all of them. > > > Adil Matin > Vice President > Information TV-Indianews Channel > > Sent from my iPad > > On 04-Nov-2010, at 8:23 AM, Yousuf wrote: > > Dear all > Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. On 1st > November a team of activists from the NGO Bachpan Bachao Andolan > along with police officials tried to rescue about 60 children > working in the sweatshops of zari industry in Batla House. They had > almost secured these children and were taking them away, but their > operation failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around > them and snatched all the children back. They spread the rumour that > the activists were “conspiring against Muslims” and forcefully > taking away “their” children. The police obviously watched the whole > drama without taking any action. They were afraid that the event may > take a turn of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php > ) > > This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the presence of > rampant child labour in this area, the defiance of the local goons, > and the silence of the police. But it is more unfortunate because of > the inaction and silence of the entire intellectual class > originating from Jamia. The neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread > around a central university whose many staff, teachers and students > reside here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the > study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority Studies, > media studies, Childhood development centre, Gandhian studies and > host of others (see http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right > under the lamp there seems darkness. > > This is not the first time that the local people used the “Muslim” > card to thwart any outside attempt to improve their lot. Of course > there has been a lot of insecurity due to the recent incidents of > “terrorist encounter” and so on. And the people’s hostility and > anger towards the police and “non-Muslims” can be understood in the > light of the generalisations made by the media and the police about > the people of this area. But this can also have a different sort of > advantage. Pretending the fear of local backlash, the authorities > have decided in the recent months to turn a blind eye to the mass- > scale illegal construction of apartment buildings in the already > narrow and cramped lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become > utterly inhuman to live. This construction activity and the zari > factories are all part of the growing monster that this area has > become. And the religious identity is a good excuse to allow the > monstrosity to grow larger. Of > course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s aspirations of > becoming a world class city during the recent CW games didn’t touch > this area in any way. > > I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing here hoping > that at least some discussion or debate could ensue in some place to > make sense of what is going on. But more than a closed-door > discussion, this neighbourhood needs a street-level debate on how > not to use the religious identity for petty issues, and how real are > these “conspiracies against Muslims”. > > Any ideas? > > Yousuf Saeed > > ---- > > Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient attitude of > administration > > On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith the labour > department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted a raid and rescue > operation in their effort to eradicate Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, > New Delhi. After rigorous effort by the activists of BBA more than > 200 child labourers in zari industry were identified. On this > context BBA filed a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South > on 19th October 2010. After two planning meetings with all > stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue date was > finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team gathered at Kalkaji > Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for identified spot headed by > SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha and moved towards Batla House and > hence started the rescue operation. Children in this area were > involved in the zari works in miserable condition. They were between > 6 years to 13 years of age. > > The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the teams were > successful in rescuing around sixty children and they were being > taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out of nowhere two person named > Amanatulla and Samiulla, who introduced themselves as some members > of a political organization, along with the owners of the industry > came and interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two > person propagated a communal flavour during conversation with our > team members and motivated the people by saying that these people > are against Muslims. > > As a result of their interruption the local people started gathering > and asking questions. The Police Officials and the people from the > labour department remained standing as mere spectators and most of > them disappeared from the spot. The activists of Bachpan Bachao > Andolan were treated indecently by the owners and the two so called > local leaders namely Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that > extent of obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the > children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away. > > In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did not take > any action and at last we had to return back empty handed. Shri R.S > Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said in this context “This happened > because of the inefficient attitude of the administration but our > activists will continue this movement against those who are > responsible for creating this kind of inhuman situation unless all > rescued children are rescued in that area > Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate authority to > take proper action against who interrupted the official work by > sustaining the rescue operation and forcibly taking away the freed > children and thus registering cases for kidnapping/ abduction for > purpose of slavery (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor > for an illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC), > Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public servant from > doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC), Criminal Intimidation and > threat of grievous hurt or death (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc. > > http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php > > Also see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms > > __._,_.___ > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New > Topic > Messages in this topic (1) > RECENT ACTIVITY: > Visit Your Group > MARKETPLACE > Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! > Explore new interests. > > Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers > Center. > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're > on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use > . > > __,_._,___ > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 18:47:08 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:47:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Why_Adivasis=92_Soldier_is_Silent?= =?windows-1252?q?=3F_by_Gladson_Dungdung?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why Adivasis’ Soldier is Silent? By Gladson Dungdung Jharkhandmirror.org 11 November, 2010 On August 26, 2010, the Congress leader and self-proclaimed soldier of the Adivasis, Rahul Gandhi visited to Niyamgiri in Orissa just two days after the Indian government denied clearance to the Vedanta Resource’s Rs.4500 crore bauxite mining project in Niyamgiri Hills. While addressing to a rally of 3000 colourfully dressed Dongria Kondh and other Adivasis at Jagannathpur village who have been fighting to save their holy mountain he said, “I am your soldier in Delhi. Whenever you need me, I will be there for you.” He got a huge clapping when he said, “True development takes place by respecting the interests of the poor and Adivasis.” However, just after two months, the migrant Jharkhandi Adivasis were attacked by the Forest Department in Assam but the Adivasis’ soldier is still silent. Therefore, the Adivasis want to know why their soldier is silent. Is he shocked on the incident or he is silent because if he opens his mouth the Congress Government may face severe problems in Assam? The State sponsored attack on the migrant Adivasis took place on October 30, 2010, when a gang of 200 people in form of ‘eviction team’ comprising of Boro youth (deployed by Haltugaon Divisional Forest Officer), Forest Protection Force and Task Force entered into Lungsung Forest Block of Gaurang Range under Haltugaon Forest Division to evict the Adivasis alleging them of encroaching the Forest lands. This area comes under Bismuri police station of Kokrajhar district in Assam. The eviction team started abusing, threatening and frightening the adivasis, and asked them to leave the areas and when they denied it the eviction team started chasing them, beating them and set fire in their houses. Consequently, within a few hours, the hundreds of houses with movable properties like paddy, rice, utensils, bicycles, ploughing instruments and clothes were burnt into ashes. The Forest Department carried on attacks on the Adivasis till October 31. Besides, burning the houses and properties, the eviction team cut down the trees of mango, banana, bamboo, battle nut and papaya. The eviction team hunted the livestock like hens, ducks, pigs and goats and took away those with them during the eviction. The family members who were found in the houses including men, women and children were physically and mentally tortured during the eviction. The women who protested against the atrocities were molested and beaten by the eviction team. The eviction team did not even spare the children. Many small kids were half burnt and got injury in their bodies and heads. When the atrocities crossed the limit, the Adivasis started protesting against the Forest Department. As a result, the men who led the protest against the atrocities were arrested by the Police. The Forest Department with the help of Boro youth burnt down 400 houses of 53 villages into ashes. Consequently, 5975 Adivasis of 1143 families became homeless and 33 Adivasi village heads of Santal and Oraon communities were arrested and sent to Kokrajhar jail. Besides, 9 Primary Schools, 1 Manjhi Than (place of worship), 6 Churches and 7 Lakhi Mandirs were also burnt into ashes. The vegetables and other crops were also destroyed in the move. The Adivasis were tortured, their houses burnt to ashes and they were thrown behind the bars in the name of eviction. They were portrayed as encroachers of the forest land though they have been living in the vicinity since 1964, much before the enactment of the forest conservation Act 1980. Ironically, the Forest Rights Act 2006 emphasises on righting the historical wrongs done to the Adivasis but in Assam the historical injustice is still continuing with the Adivasis merely for the vote bank politics of the Congress government. Is the Forest Rights Act not enforceable in Assam or the Act is brought to ensure lands to the corporate sharks after dividing the Adivasis and other forest dweller communities in the name of giving them rights over the forest and forest land? The Adivasis are living in the state of uncertainty in Assam. The ancestors of Jharkhandi Adivasis mostly the Oraons and the Santals had been taken to Assam by the Britishers to work in the tea garden approximately 150 years ago. Later on when the population increased, they scattered and some of them settled down in Lungsung forest after clearing the land in 1964. The Forest Department had evicted the Adivasi and Bodo people from the area in 1977. The district administration rehabilitated the Bodo people in different places of Kokrajhar district but the Adivasis were left out and they remained in adjacent vicinity. In course of time, when the Adivasis faced livelihood crisis they again went back to Lungsung forest and settled down. In July 1996 the Adivasis were driven out from the forest by Bodo extremists and took shelter in different relief camps, where they were given merely 400 gram rice per person for 10 days, which thrown them in the livelihood crisis. Consequently, they again went back to the Lungsung forest to earn their livelihood and settled down in their old villages. Perhaps, the Forest Department is very bias, arrogant and undemocratic. Firstly, the Forest Department didn’t issue any notification before evicting the Adivasis as per the eviction procedure. Secondly, Bodos, Nepalis and Adivasis have been living in Lungsung forest since 1964 but the Forest Department took action only against the migrant Jharkhandi Adivasis. Ironically, the Assam Government and the Boroland Territorial Council justified the inhuman acts of the Forest Department. The Congress lead UPA government counts the Forest Rights Act 2006 as one of its biggest achievements but the question is why the Jharkhandi migrant Adivasis were not given entitlements of the lands they have been cultivating for years? How does the Forest Department become protector of the forests and the Adivasis encroachers, whose life, livelihood, economy, culture and identity are based on it? The Member of Parliament of Kokrajhar S.K. Bwiswmuthiary alleged Ram Dayal Munda, Babulal Marandi and other Adivasi leaders, who visited to the affected areas of Assam, of attempting to create a mini Jharkhand and bringing in the Maoists in the forests of Bodoland. According to Joy Raj Tudu the leader of Jharkhand Initiatives Desk, who met the victims, S.K. Bwiswmuthiary has been playing a biased politics towards the Adivasis, in his third term being an M.P of Kokrajhar, has been successful in denying the existence of Adivasis in the region and has been the staunch enemy of the Adivasi sentiment. In fact, he was the ring master in instigating the ethnic violence between Adivasis and Bodos in 1996 and 1998. In fact, the whole dispute of Assam is based on the issues of the land, the migrant Adivasis’ demand for ST status and sharing of the power. The migrant Adivasis have occupied very fertile lands, which the Boros are eying to capture therefore they don’t want the land to be regularized to the Adivasis. Secondly, there are 70 lakh migrant Adivasis in Assam, which comprises of 25 percent of the total population of the state. In that case, if the migrant Adivasis are given ST status they can acquire many posts and positions through reservation. The Boro and other Assami Adivasis see it as cutting in their share. Therefore, the Boros are against to the migrant Adivasis be given the status of Schedule Tribe in Assam. Thirdly, there are only 15 percent Adivasis in Assam. If the migrant Adivasis are given ST status the total Adivasi population would come to 40 percent, which can make a huge difference in the political arena of Assam therefore the non-Adivasis do not want the migrant Adivasis be given the status of ‘Scheduled Tribe’. However, the migrant Adivasis are demanding for the ‘Scheduled Tribe’ status, which will ensure their constitutional rights. In these circumstances, if the Assam government gives ST status to the migrant Adivasis and entitlements of land, the Assami Adivasis and non-Adivasis both may go against of the Congress Party therefore the Assam government is not only reluctant to give the ST status to the migrant Adivasis but it has been also sponsoring the exploitation, torture and forcefully eviction of the migrant Adivasis of Assam for years. Though most of the Adivasis of India have voted in favour of the Congress Party for decades but the party has been betraying them even today. For instance, If all the migrants Adivasis who have settled down in different states of the country were honestly counted in one category, the numbers of the Adivasis might have reached to 12 crore in India whereas only 8 crore is mentioned in the Census 2001 and rest of them were put either in OBC or general categories. Of course, it is one of the biggest injustices done to the Adivasis by those who called themselves as soldiers of the Adivasis. Ironically, when the elite Indians are targeted in Australia, UK or US, it becomes the issue of racism for the Indian State and the national Media, whereas the Indian state has been racially discriminating the Adivasis for decades but nobody is bothered about it. Can the Adivasis’ soldier tell us why? Why 70 lakh migrant Adivasis of Jharkhand are counted in OBC category in Assam? Why the upper caste people get the same status across the country and the Adivasis don’t? Perhaps, Rahul Gandhi is much worried on the matter of Adivasis deserting the Congress Party rather than protection of their rights therefore he intends to get back the lost Adivasi vote bank by projecting himself as their soldier. The relevant question here is if he is Adivasis’ soldier then whose government has been carrying on eviction of the migrant Adivasis in Assam, Salwa Judum in Chhatisgarh and Operation Green Hunt in the so-called Red Corridor? However, if Rahul Gandhi still wants to become a real soldier of the Adivasis, he should ask his government to give ST status and land entitlements to the migrant Adivasis of Assam, to enforce the United Nations declaration on the rights of the Indigenous People 2007, to recognize the Adivasis as indigenous people of India, to protect their constitutional & traditional rights and stop their alienation from the natural resources. The question may remain unanswered is will he listen our voices or beat around the bush in delusion of becoming a soldier of the Adivasis? Gladson Dungdung is a Human Rights Activist and Writer based in Jharkhand. He can be reached at gladsonhractivist at gmail.com From zulfi14 at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 21:23:03 2010 From: zulfi14 at gmail.com (Zulfiya Hamzaki) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:23:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Papers: Frames of Reference 2011 (Annual Student Seminar) Message-ID: Hi, Do circulate to those who may be interested. Regards, Zulfiya Frames of Reference 2011 (Annual Student Seminar) Centre for Media and Cultural Studies Tata Institute of social Sciences, Mumbai (January 29-30, 2011) Call for papers from post graduate students Performing Resistance The idea of “art” has worn many garbs through the centuries and has shaped and become part of multiple and varied conceptions of social reality. Art, once it discarded its burden of verisimilitude to a reality out there, has often been seen as potentially subversive because of its ability to defamiliarise the familiar, to open up new ways of seeing and being. This potential of art to resist dominant ideologies has generally been attributed to avant garde “high” art, as opposed to popular forms. Moving from a once canonised exclusive social milieu where art forms were viewed as reserved only for a “discerning” elite class, we have seen ruptures in space and time where popular culture, indigenous, folk and traditional art forms have entered the academic debate with the sort of energy that shook the ivory tower of high culture from its foundations. Moreover newer forms of expression have emerged out of the unique encounters and the social processes that the contemporary scenario throws together. It is important then at this critical juncture to look afresh at our conception of art and how we can view its articulation within relations of power and resistance in the social matrix. In a broad sweep of “the arts” we can include visual art of all kinds, (cinema, painting, installation etc.) literature, performative arts as well as other more innovative forms which use an aesthetic base to project their content. One cannot view the arts in isolation from social and political events. The very production of these works is often embedded within broader discourses of the communities and the prevalent cultural dynamic. In this seminar we seek to understand and critically interrogate works of art that question dominant ideologies and structures within the frameworks of gender, religion, caste, class and the nation. We are looking specifically here at forms of art which offer up the potential for a subversive politics within the subcontinent. Possible topics may include but are not restricted to: • Art and conflict-ridden regions • Art and violence • Censorship and the freedom of expression • Satire and social/political commentary • Adaptations and critical, contemporary reformulations • Art and social movements • Art produced in exile • Representations and critiques of war • Politicisation of art by external forces • Art within the discourse of subaltern studies • Popular culture and alternate portrayals • Art and gendered politics • Art and the politics of caste, class and religion • Traditional art forms and social critique • Mysticism and Resistance • New media and the potential for subversion Please send your abstract (300 – 500 words) and a brief bio note (200 words) to the following email or postal address by Monday, December 6 2010: Email: framesofreference11 at gmail.com Postal address: Centre for Media and Cultural Studies Tata Institute of Social Sciences V.N Purav Marg Deonar, Mumbai 400088 Tel. No. 022 – 25525667 For Details: http://framesofreference11.wordpress.com Selected paper writers will be informed by mid December, 2010, and will be expected to attend the seminar. Costs of hospitality and stay will be covered by the organisers. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 21:40:29 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:40:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Prosecute the anarchist for treason Message-ID: *Prosecute the anarchist for treason* November 11, 2010 9:43:40 PM *Akul Nishant Akhoury* Link - http://www.dailypioneer.com/292727/Prosecute-the-anarchist-for-treason.html *Any leniency shown towards Arundhati Roy for espousing separatism in the garb of exercising her right to free speech will be an insult to the nation’s integrity and sovereignty* Arundhati Roy has clearly violated the Lakshman *rekha*and has mocked at Article 19 of the Constitution that gives her the freedom to speak. The same Article, however, puts reasonable restrictions and limits the ways, she can exercise it. With her latest barb on Kashmir issue, she has clearly crossed the limits, beyond which she cannot be allowed to enjoy the rights. Her statement portrays her as an anarchist, not the way political theories define an anarchist, but an anarchist in beliefs and ideas, who finds solace in chaos. Arundhati Roy’s statement on Kashmir has violated all the restrictions put upon Article 19. While her statement is not only provocative, it also espouses serious danger of hurting the sentiments of patriotic Indians and particularly patriotic Kashmiris. Her statement has damaged the public order, security of the state, decency and morality and challenges the integrity and sovereignty of the nation. By raising question upon the integrity of a state, she has not only hurt the popular sentiments but has also tried to legitimize the separatists’ ideas of Indian position on Kashmir. Her latest salvo that India has colonized Kashmir is not only derogatory to the ideals of Indian national movement but has also shattered the high moral grounds that India has always taken against colonialism and imperialism in any form. Her barbs echo Pakistan’s stand on Kashmir vis-à-vis India, and has the potential to weaken the Indian position. According to the provisions of the Constitution, read with the amended provisions of the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, even an advocacy of secession from the Union does not enjoy protection and those advocating such ideas can be penalised. Going by the provisions, Arundhati Roy has secured for herself a maximum of ten years of imprisonment. The successive Governments should be blamed squarely for patronising the pseudo-intellectuals and not dismantling the threats posed by them to the society. Arundhati Roy has seldom realised that an educated person like her commands certain respect and position in the society. Such a position comes with certain responsibility towards the country and countrymen. Their ideas are thought-provoking and carry weight. However, apart from damaging her own image, she has also made the common man to fear similar pseudo-intellectuals that each time they would open their mouth, would pour venom and damage the tolerant fabric of the nation. Legally speaking, the law may look into the grave nature of her statement. No legal expert can deny that her crime is grave. A person speaking in his house on such an issue may avoid prosecution, but a provocative speech at a public forum cannot be ignored by any ethical and democratic standards. If challenged, the court may look into the intensity of her advocacy for such a cause. The quantum of sentence would be decided on that ground. Constitution guarantees such a freedom of speech and expression so that people use the right and raise voice against the tyranny of the state and the individual. But Constitution never gives the freedom to misuse the right and wage a war against the ideals of the nation. By advocating the separatists’ line, Arundhati Roy has legitimised weeks of violent protests in Kashmir and has also questioned the idea of nation that India is. Defying long ago the two-nation theory, Kashmir had preferred to remain independent but later merged with the Union after finding threat to its ‘independent’ existence. Maharaja Hari Singh realised immediately that going with India was better than remaining independent as the State did not have the resources to remain independent against the nefarious designs of the neighbour. According to the Government of India Act, 1947, and agreed to by the Congress and the Muslim League, the dominion of India was to be divided between India and Pakistan, with the princely states given an option to join either of the two nations, but in no case could have remained independent. Sovereignty of either of the two states was to be exercised over the territory. Maharaja Hari Singh willingly signed the Instrument of Accession, against the maverick Pakistan’s misadventure to capture Kashmir in a bloody war. And the history is well known. *Azadi* for Kashmir in essence means * azadi* to join Pakistan, which has been rejected by the Kashmiris themselves, at least evident in over 50 per cent voting each time the State went to vote. Stirring the hornet's’ nest in such a situation is nothing but a move to gain cheap popularity. An unknown face until 1996, she rose to fame after winning Booker for *God of Small Things*(1992-96). She was fast enough to realise that road to quick fame or infamy is only by remaining in controversy and propagating ideas that run against the sovereign will of the nation. Henceforth, she never looked back. Be it contempt of court in Narmada rehabilitation case, advocating Maoists in their misadventure, or her views on 2001 Parliament attack case and 26/11, Arundhati Roy managed to remain in limelight by making politically incorrect statements all the time. In none of the instances she has conveyed any sense to the intelligentsia and the middle class that she has a bit of respect for the established idea of nation that India is. She calls India not a democratic nation. She supports Maoists who are avowed enemy of the state. She calls India a nation that has colonised Kashmir. With all the negative aspects of Indian state, she still prefers to stay in India, so that she can stay here and criticise the nation. Staying in India, Arundhati Roy is conspiring against the Indian state, and thus, should be prosecuted for treason. Any leniency shown towards her would not only be an insult to the idea of national pride and but also the motherland, for which freedom fighters laid down their lives. At the same time it would be warranted to deny her of all the platforms from where she could raise such ideas. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 21:58:23 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:58:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Roy is a hopping activist with no commitments Message-ID: *Roy is a hopping activist with no commitments* November 11, 2010 9:41:58 PM *Meenakshi Rao* * Link* - http://www.dailypioneer.com/293330/Roy-is-a-hopping-activist-with-no-commitments.html The last thing Jammu and Kashmir needed at this hotheaded moment was misplaced activism, especially of the kind that people like Arundhati Roy propel. This kind of activism usually screams its guts out, queers the pitch of everyone around it, mostly kills negotiation and takes the issue into the dangerous zone of hyperventilation. J&K, as we all are often told, is the world’s worst flashpoint. It burns perpetually, and more intensely now than ever before. Under the circumstances, stoking fires through any means — foul or fair, oral or action — can only be deemed dangerous, inflammatory and, yes, seditious too. By suddenly landing on the Kashmir issue, out of nowhere one must point out, Roy has trigerred a whole lot of debate, but more alarmingly, she has created a situation which is dangerous not just for the nation but also for the people she is supporting. Espousing the cause of the poverty-stricken, the havenots, the displaced population is a good thing. But J&K is not about poverty. It is a different ballgame altogether, something that needs careful handling, a very cautious approach and a negotiation that is comprehensively measured. None of which makes the staple for Roy’s ill-timed diatribe in support of what she called the people of Kashmir. Despite being a Goddess of potent writing, Roy can be directly accused of being a hopping activist. She gets added to an issue in no time and moves on equally speedily. From Narmada to Maoists to now J&K, she has spent little time with any of the issues after stoking them. In that context, and due to her star power, these issues do get prominence in the media but that does not keep her in the loop for long. Roy has never been associated with Jammu and Kashmir in any capacity, not even having written about it much. One wonders why and where she has popped up from. Is it because prior to the visit of US president Barack Obama, there needed to be a scream campaign around J&K and no one could do this job better than Roy? Such speculation will never be answered decisively but seems to not be totally without reason. After all, Roy is a stranger to J&K and the timing of her going into paradise with questions and accusations looks amply suspect. Over and above that, and despite the fact that our Government never really had any intention of putting Roy’s J&K “activism” on a leash, one wonders how long would she be talking about it and if she has really already moved on. One only hopes that she realises that the trail she has left behind will take a very long time to mend. Because, J&K is not about curbing of freedom of expression, it is about a nation’s freedom to use all power within its means to hold its boundaries together. The situation in Kashmir is not just tense it is also not fully within control. Anytime, the bloodbath can spurt, anytime anything can happen there. The Valley people do not need someone to tell them how bad the situation with them is. They are already stuck with a slew of surreptitious forces who tell them morning, noon and night that they are living in hell. The actual instruction to the populace is “create hell.” So, to let Roy or any other person walk into this ticking minefield of sentiment, and lead the situation even more astray than it already is, can be described as nothing but lunacy of the Government. First, it lets the situation in the Valley go out of hand by twiddling its thumb over Omar Abdullah’s apparent naivete. Then it even mulls on diluting the Army’s power in the strife-ridden State even though the Army had nothing to do with the civilian protests that turned bloody and fatal. Next it allows a Roy-Gilani togetherness, not just in Delhi but also in Srinagar where she should never have been allowed to step in with all the vitriol she was carrying against the establishment. Next, it says it might try her for sedition! And then says it can’t! With such a blundering administration at hand, and unheeding, uncaring voices that will bleed all kinds of wounds raining in from all sides, the UPA has given rise to a chaos it is totally not equipped to handle. From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Nov 11 22:09:32 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 22:09:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Prosecute the anarchist for treason In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is most shallow one... I feel making a list of writers who criticize Roy and mark them X and never read them again, such a waste of time, best love is On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > *Prosecute the anarchist for treason* > November 11, 2010   9:43:40 PM > > *Akul Nishant Akhoury* > > Link - > http://www.dailypioneer.com/292727/Prosecute-the-anarchist-for-treason.html > > *Any leniency shown towards Arundhati Roy for espousing separatism in the > garb of exercising her right to free speech will be an insult to the > nation’s integrity and sovereignty* > > Arundhati Roy has clearly violated the Lakshman *rekha*and has mocked at > Article 19 of the Constitution that gives her the freedom to speak. The same > Article, however, puts reasonable restrictions and limits the ways, she can > exercise it. With her latest barb on Kashmir issue, she has clearly crossed > the limits, beyond which she cannot be allowed to enjoy the rights. Her > statement portrays her as an anarchist, not the way political theories > define an anarchist, but an anarchist in beliefs and ideas, who finds solace > in chaos. > > Arundhati Roy’s statement on Kashmir has violated all the restrictions put > upon Article 19. While her statement is not only provocative, it also > espouses serious danger of hurting the sentiments of patriotic Indians and > particularly patriotic Kashmiris. Her statement has damaged the public > order, security of the state, decency and morality and challenges the > integrity and sovereignty of the nation. > > By raising question upon the integrity of a state, she has not only hurt the > popular sentiments but has also tried to legitimize the separatists’ ideas > of Indian position on Kashmir. Her latest salvo that India has colonized > Kashmir is not only derogatory to the ideals of Indian national movement but > has also shattered the high moral grounds that India has always taken > against colonialism and imperialism in any form. Her barbs echo Pakistan’s > stand on Kashmir vis-à-vis India, and has the potential to weaken the Indian > position. > > According to the provisions of the Constitution, read with the amended > provisions of the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, even an advocacy of > secession from the Union does not enjoy protection and those advocating such > ideas can be penalised. > > Going by the provisions, Arundhati Roy has secured for herself a maximum of > ten years of imprisonment. > > The successive Governments should be blamed squarely for patronising the > pseudo-intellectuals and not dismantling the threats posed by them to the > society. Arundhati Roy has seldom realised that an educated person like her > commands certain respect and position in the society. Such a position comes > with certain responsibility towards the country and countrymen. Their ideas > are thought-provoking and carry weight. However, apart from damaging her own > image, she has also made the common man to fear similar pseudo-intellectuals > that each time they would open their mouth, would pour venom and damage the > tolerant fabric of the nation. > > Legally speaking, the law may look into the grave nature of her statement. > No legal expert can deny that her crime is grave. A person speaking in his > house on such an issue may avoid prosecution, but a provocative speech at a > public forum cannot be ignored by any ethical and democratic standards. If > challenged, the court may look into the intensity of her advocacy for such a > cause. The quantum of sentence would be decided on that ground. > > Constitution guarantees such a freedom of speech and expression so that > people use the right and raise voice against the tyranny of the state and > the individual. But Constitution never gives the freedom to misuse the right > and wage a war against the ideals of the nation. > > By advocating the separatists’ line, Arundhati Roy has legitimised weeks of > violent protests in Kashmir and has also questioned the idea of nation that > India is. Defying long ago the two-nation theory, Kashmir had preferred to > remain independent but later merged with the Union after finding threat to > its ‘independent’ existence. Maharaja Hari Singh realised immediately that > going with India was better than remaining independent as the State did not > have the resources to remain independent against the nefarious designs of > the neighbour. > > According to the Government of India Act, 1947, and agreed to by the > Congress and the Muslim League, the dominion of India was to be divided > between India and Pakistan, with the princely states given an option to join > either of the two nations, but in no case could have remained independent. > Sovereignty of either of the two states was to be exercised over the > territory. Maharaja Hari Singh willingly signed the Instrument of Accession, > against the maverick Pakistan’s misadventure to capture Kashmir in a bloody > war. And the history is well known. *Azadi* for Kashmir in essence means * > azadi* to join Pakistan, which has been rejected by the Kashmiris > themselves, at least evident in over 50 per cent voting each time the State > went to vote. Stirring the hornet's’ nest in such a situation is nothing but > a move to gain cheap popularity. > > An unknown face until 1996, she rose to fame after winning Booker for *God > of Small Things*(1992-96). She was fast enough to realise that road to quick > fame or infamy is only by remaining in controversy and propagating ideas > that run against the sovereign will of the nation. Henceforth, she never > looked back. > > Be it contempt of court in Narmada rehabilitation case, advocating Maoists > in their misadventure, or her views on 2001 Parliament attack case and > 26/11, Arundhati Roy managed to remain in limelight by making politically > incorrect statements all the time. In none of the instances she has conveyed > any sense to the intelligentsia and the middle class that she has a bit of > respect for the established idea of nation that India is. > > She calls India not a democratic nation. She supports Maoists who are avowed > enemy of the state. She calls India a nation that has colonised Kashmir. > With all the negative aspects of Indian state, she still prefers to stay in > India, so that she can stay here and criticise the nation. Staying in India, > Arundhati Roy is conspiring against the Indian state, and thus, should be > prosecuted for treason. > > Any leniency shown towards her would not only be an insult to the idea of > national pride and but also the motherland, for which freedom fighters laid > down their lives. At the same time it would be warranted to deny her of all > the platforms from where she could raise such ideas. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Nov 12 10:03:13 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:03:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab Message-ID: Cornered ­ Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti artist Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked fashion ads on the metro. Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? And is she really a woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street artist Angelique Chrisafis The Guardian, Thursday 11 November 2010 Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, Paris's first commuters are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at the end of the platform, a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping with nerves. Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. Striking at night with dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils on the half-naked airbrushed women ­ and men ­ of the metro's fashion adverts. She calls it "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been exhibited from New York to Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and fundamentalism ­ yet her identity remains a mystery. In secular republican France, there can hardly be a more potent visual gag than scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six years after a law banned headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from state schools, Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from public spaces amid a fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil liberties. The "burqa ban", approved last month, means that from next year it will be illegal for a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not just in government offices or on public transport, but in the streets, supermarkets and private businesses. The government says it is a way of protecting women's rights and stopping them being forced by men to cover their faces. Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One female teacher in favour of the ban was last week given a month's suspended jail sentence for trying to rip a veil from the face of a 26-year-old Emirati tourist in a shop, then slapping, scratching and biting her. On the other side of the argument, two French women calling themselves "niqabitch" reproduced the classic visual mixed metaphor of walking around central Paris in niqabs, black hotpants, bare legs and high heels, posting a film of it online in order to highlight the "absurdity" of the ban. But Princess Hijab got there first, and her simple, almost childlike acts of sabotage with a black marker pen still manage to be the most unsettling, with the widest audience abroad. Yet who is she? A French Muslim woman in hijab raging at the system? That would be a rare thing on Paris's male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a religious fundamentalist making a point about female flesh? But she likes to leaves a witty smattering of buttock cheeks and midriff on display. If she's a leftwing feminist making a point about the exploitation of women, it's odd that she always flees the scene of her crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like to imagine a young rebel outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos travelling to the capital to make her mark. But like Paris's greatest street artist, Blek le Rat ‹ who inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be a fiftysomething white man who voted for Sarkozy. The Princess winds through the corridors of Havre-Caumartin sizing up the advertising posters lining the walls. She has agreed to meet as she scours stations for targets for her next "niqab intervention". In Spandex tights, shorts and a hoodie, with a long black wig totally obscuring her face, one thing is clear; the twentysomething doesn't wear the niqab that has become her own signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In fact, it's more than likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's a low note in her laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the androgynous figure in black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity behind Princess Hijab is of no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. "The imagined self has taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic choice." "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll stick to "she" as the character is female, even if the person behind it is perhaps not). "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits that enveloped bodies, more classic art than fashion. And I'd been drawing veiled women on skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I felt I wanted to confront the outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No Logo and it inspired me to risk intervening in public places, targeting advertising." The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the "niqabisation" of the album poster of France's most famous female rapper, Diam's, who by strange coincidence has now converted to Islam herself. "It's intriguing because she's now wearing the veil," the Princess muses. Intially she graffitied men, women and children and then would stand around to gauge the public's response; now she does hit-and-runs. "I don't care about people's reactions. I can see this makes people feel awkward and ill at ease, I can understand that, you're on your way home after a tough day and suddenly you're confronted with this." With the Paris metro protective of its advertising spaces, her work now usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before being ripped down by officials. She has become highly selective, doing only four or five graffiti "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is carefully photographed and has its own afterlife circulating online. The "niqabised" range from Dolce & Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts for Virgin bookshops. Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a challenge," she says, quick to add that she believes no one way of dressing is either good or bad. She's not defending the rights of any group and no one needs her as a spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If veiled women want to make a point, they'd do it themselves. If feminists want to do something they're capable of doing it on their own." She later explains by email: "The veil has many hidden meanings, it can be as profane as it is sacred, consumerist and sanctimonious. From Arabic Gothicism to the condition of man. The interpretations are numerous and of course it carries great symbolism on race, sexuality and real and imagined geography." Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, but the one issue that really shakes her ­ and perhaps reveals a little of her true identity ­ is the place of minorities in France. Beyond the arguments about whether Muslim women should cover their heads, Sarkozy's new ministry of "immigration and national identity" and his national debate on what it means to be French has stigmatised the already discriminated and ghettoised young people of third- and fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has the largest Muslim population in Europe, but the prevailing anti-immigrant discourse, and what many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the feelings of marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. Princess Hijab sees herself as part of a new "graffiti of minorities" reclaiming the streets. "If it was only about the burqa ban, my work wouldn't have a resonance for very long. But I think the burqa ban has given a global visibility to the issue of integration in France," she says. "We definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups in boxes, always reducing them to the same old questions about religion or urban violence. Education levels are better and we can't have the old Manichean discourse any more." She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, that's a republican principle, but in reality the issue of minorities in French society hasn't really evolved in half a century. The outsiders in France are still the poor, the Arabs, black and of course, the Roma." The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She simply says she sees her work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out of the underbelly of the city where "I bring inside everything that's been excreted out." And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its anti-consumerism and ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on adverts works visually because the two are "dogmas that can be questioned". She feels young women wearing the hijab who were once stigmatised by French institutions are now being targeted for their purchasing power, the "perfect customers" in France's increasingly consumerist society. Her next spree will focus on her favourite target brand, H&M. After all, its ad campaigns are plastered all over the Paris metro. She argues that the brand "democratised" fashion at low prices, women in hijab often shop there, and inking out H&M models is the perfect act of confrontation: "It's visually very striking because [the brand's] images are ideologically very present in the urban landscape." So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent everything but religion. "Am I religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual interests me, but that's personal, I don't think it bears on my work. Religion interests me, Muslims interest me and the impact they can have, artistically, aesthetically, in the codes that are all around us, particularly in fashion," she muses. And with that, the graffiti performance artist scuttles off, kit-bag over her shoulder, to change out of her bizarre disguise and into her own everyday fashion and wander off above ground into the daylight. guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2010 From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Nov 12 16:08:49 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (VideoChannel) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:38:49 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?VideoChannel=3A_Family_Affairs_2_-_F?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ather?= Message-ID: <20101112113849.A4B7504B.9F5BC17C@192.168.0.3> VideoChannel Cologne - the international platform for videoart proudly presents --> Feature of the Month November 2010 ~ also featured on NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1129 Family Affair 2 - Father curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne (artvideoKOELN) featuring videos by following 12 artists Antonio Alvarado (Spain) - Zack Bent (USA) - Yin-Ling Chen (Taiwan) Virginia Colwell (USA) - Lindsay Foster (USA) - Constantin Hartenstein (Germany) Shahar Marcus (Israel)- Antti Savela (Sweden) - Chris Stockbridge (UK) Marc Thele (Germany) - Anders Weberg (Sweden) - Zellner Bros. (USA) Two years ago, "Family Affairs" started with "Mother" as the fundamental part of a family. The selection of videos dealing with "father" as the complementary part, shows the difference of their roles and positions within in the family and how the artists experience, perceive and value this difference. Here is direct access http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=1209 ------------------------------------------- VideoChannel Cologne international platform for videoart http://videochannel.newmediafest.org is a partner of NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org and powered by artvideoKOELN ~ the initiative "art & moving images" ~ http://video.mediaartcologne.org videochannel (at) newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------ From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Fri Nov 12 18:54:27 2010 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 05:24:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Closet histories of Pandit/Brahman Suffering in Kashmir. In-Reply-To: <288238.77719.qm@web114705.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <844387.45991.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> If all these things were happening, then where is the uncles and aunties and what are they doing? --- On Mon, 11/8/10, gowhar fazli wrote: From: gowhar fazli Subject: [Reader-list] Closet histories of Pandit/Brahman Suffering in Kashmir. To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 1:03 PM Histories in private circulation that do not get debated in public multi-ethnic or academic forums but play a great role in sustaining the hate. This might help understand the narrative of persecution and hate on which some of the people in this forum have been raised. Wailing Kashmir:  SEVEN MIGRATIONS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS  [Dr Satish Ganjoo] [For detailed study: HINDUS AND HINDUISM IN KASHMIR – A SAGA OF DEATH, CONVERSION & EXILE;  Crisis in History: DEATH OF A CIVILIZATION;  ABANDONED: Legendary Kashmiri Pandits;  A HISTORY OF KASHMIRI PANDIT GENOCIDE;   A History of the Kashmiri Pandit Race;  SATANIC HOLOCAUST OF KASHMIRI PANDITS; and,  Kashmiri Pandits: A FORBIDDEN COMMUNITY – Dr Satish Ganjoo] Since the advent of Muslim rule in Kashmir [ AD 1339], the legendary Kashmiri Pandits have suffered SEVEN TRAGIC MIGRATIONS so far. The seventh and last one was in 1989-90. A brief description of all the seven  migrations is given below: First Migration: In AD 1339, after defeating Kota Rain by a foul strategem and procuring her death, Shahmir ascended the throne of Kashmir under the name of Sultan Shamas-ud-Din (The Light of the Religion - Islam). He got khutaba read and the coins struck to his name. Islam became the court religion. Shahmir became the legitimate author and architect of Muslim rule in Kashmir. With the establishment of the new regime Muslim missionaries, preachers, sayyids and saints penetrated into the Valley. Sayyid Jalal-ud-Din, Sayyid Taj-ud-Din, Sayyid Hussain Simnani, Sayyid Masud and Sayyid Yusuf came to Kashmir to avoid the intended massacre by Timur. Mir Sayyid Ali Hamadani (Shah Hamadan) entered Kashmir with 700 sayyids; and, his son, Mir Muhammad Hamadani, with 300 more. They endured in the Valley under royal protection and disseminated the message of Islam. Mir Sayyid Ali Hamadani (AD 1314-AD 1385) wrote in “ Zakhirat’ul Maluk ” : 1. Muslim ruler shall not allow fresh constructions of Hindu temples and shrines for image worship. 2. No repair shall be executed to the existing Hindu temples and shrines. 3. They shall not proffer Muslim names. 4. They shall not ride a harnessed horse. 5. They shall not move about with arms. 6. They shall not wear rings with diamonds. 7. They shall not deal in or eat bacon. 8. They shall not exhibit idolatrous images. 9. They shall not built houses in the neighbourhood of Muslims. 10. They shall not dispose of their dead in the neighbourhood of Muslim graveyards, nor weep or wail over their dead. 11. They shall not deal in or buy Muslim slaves. 12. No Muslim traveller shall be refused lodging in the Hindu temples and shrines where he shall be treated as a guest for three days by non-Muslims. 13. No non-Muslim shall act as a spy in the Muslim state. 14. No problem shall be created for those non-Muslims who, of their own will, show their readiness for Islam. 15. Non-Muslims shall honour Muslims and shall leave their assembly whenever the Muslims enter the premises. 16. The dress of non-Muslims shall be different from that of Muslims to distinguish themselves.  This naturally caused animosity among the Brahmans and resulted in frail rebellion during the reign of Shihab-ud-Din (AD 1354-1373). In order to break the upheaval among the Hindus and to make them prostrate, the Sultan turned his attention towards their temples. All the temples in Srinagar, including the one at Bijbehara, were wrecked to terrorize the poor Kashmiri Pandits. It seems that by this time, the sultans of Kashmir were perfectly islamized as a result of their contacts, interactions and intercourses with the sayyids. These sayyids came here as absconders in search of safe harbours, but manoeuvered the events for their own cause and fanatic iconoclastic zeal. The Hindus began to feel deserted and alienated in their own land. To consolidate their rule, sultans institutionalized the “policy of extermination” to eradicate all traces of Hinduism in any form. However, the Kashmiri Pandits stuck to their own religion and traditions, ignoring the atrocities, barbarism and cruelties of the privileged ruling class. But there were many from other castes who, either by conviction or in order to gain royal favour, embraced Islam. These new converts were looked down upon by the Kashmiri Pandits as traitorous and treacherous, with no loyalty for time-honored values. This gave rise to a new class rivalry. Suha Bhatt, who after embracing Islam took the name of Saif-ud-Din, became the leader of the fresh converts during the reign of Sikandar (AD 1389-1413).  Sikandar- the Butshikan, was bigoted with fanatic religious zeal to spread Islam in the entire Valley. This fanaticism was stimulated by Mir Muhammad Hamadani. Suha Bhatt - the convert, was appointed Prime Minister by Sikandar and both hatched a deadly conspiracy to persecute the Hindus and enforce upon the Nizam-i-Mustaffa. Jonaraja says, “ The Sultan forgot his kingly duties and took delight day and night in breaking images … He broke images of Martanda, Vishaya, Ishana, Chakrabrit and Tripureshvara …… There was no city, no town, no village, no wood where Turushka left the temples of the gods unbroken.” According to Hassan (History of Kashmir), “ This country possessed from the times of Hindu rajas many temples which were like the wonders of the world. Their workmanship was so fine and delicate that one found himself bewildered at their sight. Sikandar, goaded by feelings of bigotry, destroyed them and levelled them with the earth and with the material built many mosques and khanqahs. In the first instance he turned his attention towards the great Martand temple built by Ramdev (the temple was rebuilt by King Lalitaditya, AD 724-760) on Mattan Kareva. For one year he tried to demolish it, but failed. At last in sheer dismay, he dug out stones from its base and having stored enough wood in their place, set fire to it. The gold gilt paintings on its walls were totally destroyed and the walls surrounding its premises were demolished. Its ruins even now strike wonder in men’s minds. At Bijbehara, three hundred temples including the famous Vijiveshwara temple, which was partly damaged by Shihab-ud-Din, were destroyed. With the material of Vijiveshwara temple, a mosque was built and on its site a khanqah, which is even now known as Vijiveshwara Khanqah.” The stones and bricks which once configurated a marvelous and splendid temple or monastery, now hold up mosques. Hassan further adds, “ Sikandar meted out greatest oppression to the Hindus. It was notified in the Valley that if a Hindu does not become a Muslim, he must leave the country or be killed. As a result some of the Hindus fled away, some accepted Islam and many Brahmans consented to be killed and gave their lives. It is said that Sikandar collected, by these methods, six maunds of sacred thread form Hindu converts and burnt them. Mir Muhammad Hamadani, who was a witness of all this vicious brutality, barbarism and vandalism, at last advised him to desist from the slaughter of Brahmans and told him to impose jazia (religious tax) instead of death upon them. All the Hindu books of learning were collected and thrown into Dal Lake and were buried beneath stones and earth.” Sikandar issued orders that no man should wear the tilak mark on his forehead and no woman be allowed to perform sati. He also insisted on breaking and melting of all the gold and silver idols of gods and coin the metal into money. An attempt was made to destroy the caste of the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans by force and those who resisted were subject to heavy fines. Farishta says, “ Many of the Brahmans, rather than abandon their religion or their county, poisoned themselves; some emigrated from their native homes, while a few escaped the evil of banishment by becoming Muhammedans”. To strictly enforce the Nizam-i-Mustaffa, Sikandar established the office of Shaikh-ul-Islam. According to W.R. Lawrence, the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir were given three choices-death, conversion or exile. “Many fled, many were converted and many were killed, and it is said that this thorough monarch (Sikandar) burnt seven maunds of sacred threads of the murdered Brahmans”. As for the statements of Hassan and Lawrence, six maunds of sacred threads of converts and seven maunds of murdered Pandits were burnt. The number of people, to whom these thirteen maunds of sacred threads belonged, might have been tremendously colossal. A mammoth number of the Saraswat Pandits also went into exile, causing the first disastrous mass exodus of the community. 2.  Second Migration: Ali Shah - the tyrant (AD 1413-1430), son of Sikandar- the Butshikan, during his short rule of six years, carried on his father’s 24-year tyrant reign with homicides, conversions, tyranny and enforced jazia. Suha Bhatta – the convert, who retained the prime ministership continued his earlier crimes and atrocities against the Kashmiri Pandits. Jonaraja gives a graphic account of the plight of the illustrious Kashmiri Pandits in the draconian reign of Ali Shah. He says,” Suha Bhatta- the convert, passed the limit by levying fine, jazia, on the twice - born. This evil-minded man forbade ceremonies and processions on the new moon. He became envious that the Brahmans who had become fearless would keep up their caste by going over to foreign countries, he therefore ordered posting of squads on the roads, not to allow passage to any one without a passport. Then as the fisherman torments fish, so this low born man tormented the twice-born in this country. The legendary Brahmans burnt themselves in the flaming fire through fear of conversion. Some Brahmans killed themselves by taking poison, some by the rope and others by drowning themselves. Others again by falling from a precipice. The country was contaminated by hatred and the king’s favourites could not prevent one in a thousand from committing suicide …. A multitude of celebrated Brahmans, who prided in their caste, fled from the country through bye-roads as the main roads were closed. Even as men depart from this world, so did the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir flee to foreign countries. The difficult countries through which they passed, the scanty food, painful illness and the torments of hell during life time removed from the minds of the Kashmiri Pandits the fears of hell. Oppressed by various calamities such as encounter with the enemy, fear of snakes, fierce heat and scanty food; many Brahmans perished on the way and thus obtained salvation.” This was the second miserable mass exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits. Jonaraja calls it “ Chandh-Dandh” - violent, cruel, brutal and horrible punishment, for the abandoned and vulnerable Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. History repeated itself again in AD 1989-1990. 3. Third Migration: Mir Shams-ud-Din Iraqi, who visited the Saffron Valley twice in AD 1477 and 1496, was the founder of Nurbakhshiya order (Shia sect) in Kashmir. His mission was the vigorous propagation of his faith. So, not contented with peaceful preachings, violent methods were employed. In this adventure , Iraqi was helped by the homicidal creature and most dreaded tyrant- Malik Musa Raina, a convertee, whose original name was Soma Chandra. Not only the poor vulnerable Brahmans, but the Sunni Muslims were also violently converted to Shia sect by murderous techniques. This dogmatic fanaticism even crippled the Sunni ruler of Kashmir, Fateh Shah (AD 1510-1517). A khanqah was built at Zadibal (Srinagar) by Iraqi, which became the nucleus of Shia concentration. Kashmiri Pandits suffered ferociously under the instructions of Shams-ud-Din Iraqi and Musa Raina. About 24,000 of them were forcibly converted to Shia sect of Islam. Iraqi had even issued orders that everyday about 1500 to 2000 Brahmans be brought to his doorsteps, remove their sacred threads, administer Kalima to them, circumcise them and make them eat beef. These decrees were ferociously and brutally carried out. The Hindu religious scriptures from 7th century AD onwards and about 18 magnificent temples were destroyed, property confiscated and ladies abused. Thousands of Brahmans killed themselves to evade this horrific barbarism and thousands migrated to other places, resulting in their third tragic mass exodus from the Saffron Valley of Kashmir. Those who stayed behind were not only forced to pay jazia, but their noses and ears were chopped off. To escape the tremendous pain and agony, they cried. “I am not a Hindu.” 4. Fourth Migration: The greatness of Akbar lies in his magnificent and fascinating policy of religious tolerance. Jahangir and Shah Jahan were not so tolerant. But their religious enthusiasm cannot be termed as fanatic. During this period, the Brahmans could perform their religious ceremonies after paying some tribute. But the whole scenario changed with the accession of Aurangzeb to the throne. With his bigoted fanatic and dogmatic approach, the Kashmiri Pandits were once again made vulnerable. Iftkar Khan, the Mughal governor of Kashmir during the reign of Aurangzeb, brutally tyrannized over the Brahmans to such an extent that they approached Guru Teg Bhahadur, the ninth Sikh Guru, at Anandpur in Punjab and solicited his personal intervention with the Emperor. This ultimately led to the Guru’s martyrdom and made Guru Gobid Singh to create the Khalsa to fight the oppressors . Muzaffer Khan, Nassar Khan and Ibrahim Khan were other governors of Aurangzeb who ferociously terrorized the Kashmiri Pandits. These celebrated scapegoats were once again forced to migrate from the land of their origin. It was the fourth disastrous mass exodus of the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans from Kashmir. 5. Fifth Migration: During the rule of later Mughals, Kashmir witnessed the outbreak of the worst kind of religious intolerance. In AD 1720, Mullah Abdul Nabi, also called Muhat Khan, a non-resident Kashmiri Muslim, was appointed as Shaikhul Islam . In order to assert his religious authority, he asked the Deputy Governor, Mir Ahmed Khan , to start a campaign of persecution of the Kafirs (infidels) - as the Kashmiri Pandits were called. In order to satisfy his satanic ego, the Mulla issued six commandments: 1. No Hindu should ride a horse, nor should a Hindu wear a shoe; 2. That they should not wear Jama (Mughal costume); 3. That they should move bare arms; 4. That they should not visit any garden; 5. That they should not have tilak mark on their foreheads; 6. That their children should not receive any education. But Ahmed Khan refused to execute the mischievous decree. The Mullah then excited his followers against the Kashmiri Pandits. He established his seat in a mosque, assumed the duties of the administrator under the title of Dindar Khan and let loose the reign of terror. The Hindus were wickedly tormented, their houses burnt and property looted. Hundreds of Brahmans were killed, prostrated, maimed and humiliated. They began to run away in large numbers and hide themselves in mountainous terrain. This was the fifth dreadful mass exodus of the legendary Kashmiri Pandits from their mystic motherland. Those who remained behind lived in the most horrific and terrible conditions generated by the Mullah and his gang. 6. Sixth Migration: The Afghan rule in Kashmir (AD 1753-1819) was a period of cruelty, homicide and anarchy. W.R. Lawrence calls it the “reign of brutal tyranny.” The barbarous Afghans employed every wild, inhuman, primitive, ferocious, cruel and brutal method to suppress the Kashmiri Brahmans. A pitcher filled with ordure was placed on the head of a Pandit and stones were pelt on it, till it broke and the unfortunate Brahman become wet with filth. Their brutality and atrocity crossed the extreme limits when Hindus were tied up in grass sacks, two and two, and drowned in the Dal Lake. The victimized Hindu were forced to flee the country or were killed or converted to Islam. There was horrible mass exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits, sixth one, to far away places like Delhi, Allahabad, etc. Many covered the long distances on foot. Hindu parents destroyed the beauty of their daughters by shaving their heads or cutting their noses and ears to save them from degradation. Any Muslim could jump on the back of a Pandit and take a ride. Mir Hazar - an Afghan governor, used leather bags instead of grass sacks for the drowning of Brahmans. Turbans and shoes were forbidden for them. The Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir were also forced to grow beards and tilak was interdicted. The Afghans are now only remembered for their barbarity, brutality, ferocity, tyranny and cruelty. They thought no more of cutting of heads than of plucking a flower. 7. Seventh Migration: With the formation of Jammu and Kashmir State; and, establishment of the Dogra rule in 1846, Kashmiri Pandits were imperceptibly elbowed to the background. Administrators and officials were deputed from Jammu region. Though they enjoyed comprehensive religious freedom and social emancipation, political rights of the Kashmiri Brahmans were confined. On certain occasions, they even became victims of intrigue and suspicions. The vicious communal forces also turned their wrath against them. During the communal disturbances of July 1931, shops and houses belonging to the Kashmiri Brahmans were not only looted but also burnt. Three innocent Hindus lost their lives. This communalism in the state politics aggravated and magnified with the passage of time . It was fed for years with vicious communal propaganda and brainwashing. After independence and accession of Jammu & Kashmir state to India, Kashmiri Pandits were pushed back to the barbarous Afghan era. They were given the sugarcoated dozes of poisonous toxics. Article 370 of Indian constitution just reduced them to cipher and liquidated their population. Under the pretext of economic reforms, their jagirs were confiscated and distributed among the Muslim peasants. The administration of Shaikh Abdullah adopted malicious and pernicious approach towards the Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. They were taunted on one excuse or the other. Hindu temples were desecrated, looted and plundered. Minor girls of the community were forced to embrace Islam and marry the Muslim youth. Shaikh Abdullah tried to create “ Shaikhdom” for his dynastic rule in Kashmir. But his dreams were shattered when he was arrested in 1953 for anti-national activities. In 1958, he was released but detained again after three months under the Kashmir conspiracy case. However, the case was withdrawn in 1964 because of political reasons. But he was arrested again in May 1965 for his subversive activities and released in January 1968. Again, in January 1971, a ban was imposed forbidding him to enter the Jammu Kashmir state. This restriction was lifted in 1972. During 1953-1974 Shaikh Abdullah characterized India as an imperialist power endeavouring to subjugate the people of Kashmir. He asserted that the accession of Kashmir with India was his greatest blunder for which history will never forgive him. He also demanded the right of self determination for the people of Muslim – dominated Kashmir, but ignored the Hindu- dominated Jammu and Buddhist- dominated Ladakh regions. The sophist Shaikh advocated plebiscite and unconditional withdrawal of Indian army from the Saffron Valley. He also campaigned against the import of food grains from India and asked people to eat potatoes grown in Kashmir. For such arguments, Shaikh Abdullah was nick named as “Aaloo Bab” --- Feeder of Potatoes. He made emotional solicitations that after death his body should not be buried in the subjugated Valley, but immersed into the sacred waters of Arabian sea. However, today his magnificent tomb stands on the banks of beautiful Dal Lake in Srinagar and is guarded by the Indian security personnel. By such gratuitous and conflicting statement, his secular credentials evaporated into thin air. The prospect of disloyalty and sedition began to haunt the Saffron Valley. Kashmiriyat switched over to political vandalism and bigoted fundamentalism. Shaikh Abdullah desperately held Indian Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, a Kashmiri Pandit, responsible for the shattering of his malevolent dreams in 1953. The mortified Shaikh ambiguously decided to retaliate against the whole Pandit community in Kashmir. In vindictiveness, he instigated his associated that while making a choice between a Kashmiri Pandit and dreaded cobra, kill the Pandit first. A vicious campaign of terror was launched against the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. They were refused entry to government jobs and institutions of higher learning. Besides hurling strong statement against the Government of India and Kashmiri Pandits, the Shaikh derided that the whole lot of Indian army cannot save the Hindus in Kashmir against the malevolence of Muslims. Farooq Abdullah also employed the same approach towards the crumbled Pandits when his brother-in-law, Gulshah, seized the chief ministership in 1984.The reactionary leaders- Afzal Beg, Maulvi Farooq, Mohi-ud-Din Kara and Maulana Masoodi; ignored the very existence of Kashmiri Pandits during their political adventurism. The Kashmiri Pandits were made to pay for every move on the political chessboard in Kashmir because they represented the pseudo-secularism, incognito- socialism and flowering- democracy of India. They were scolded and emotionally hurt in the Afghan fashion. But then the whole political scenario in Kashmir took a dramatic turn in 1974, when Indira-Shaikh accord was signed by virtue of which the Shaikh became the Chief Minister of the State after the lapse of 22 years. Ignoring the great expectations he had created among the people in Kashmir and his vigorous campaign for plebiscite, the sophist Shaikh began to speak the language of Indian nationalism, democracy, socialism and secularism. The slogans of plebiscite, self-determination and independent Kashmir melted away. But the Hate- India virus, infused by him into the blood of the Muslim youth in Kashmir, was exploited by other corrupt self-styled politicians for their own interests from time to time. A vacuum was created because the people were betrayed disillusioned, politically raped and left in wilderness by their own leaders. The programmes and policies of Bakshi, Sadiq, Qasim, Farooq and Gulshah were also damaging for the Kashmiri Pandits. They were continuously haunted by antagonistic, hostile and rebellious elements. Mufti Syed is even believed to be responsible for the anti-Hindu communal riots of 1986, when cows were slaughtered and temples destroyed in Anantnag district. From 1947-1986 about four lac Kashmiri Pandits silently migrated from Kashmir. Hypocritical atrocities and criminal ignorances of political leaders were responsible for these development. Pakistan, to avenge the defeat of Bangladesh, blatantly sponsored the violence and terrorism in the Valley, resulting in the turmoil of 1989-90. The then  governor of Jammu and Kashmir, Jagmohan, wrote a detailed letter to the former Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi , on April 21,1990, endorsing the alarming signals. But cowardly Indian leadership was still unconcerned. “Aay Zalimu, Aay Kafiroo, Kashmir Hamara Choudh Dou” “Bharat Kay Aiwanu Ko  Aag Lagado, Aag Lagado” The final assault on the Kashmiri Pandits started with these slogans. Barbarous terrorists from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Sudan and even Saudi Arabia penetrated into the Saffron Valley. Brutal, wild and barbarous techniques were employed to hound and kill the Aryan Saraswat Brahmans of Kashmir. Even the helpless ladies were not spared. Sarla Bhat, a nurse in Soura Medical Institute, was abducted on 19th April, 1990, by JKLF militants who repeatedly gang-raped her and eventually killed her on 25th April. Girja Tikoo, a teacher from Bandipur, was kidnapped, raped and eventually shred to pieces by a saw mill on 4th June, 1990. Bimla Braroo from the Nai Sarak, Srinagar, who along with her daughter, Archana, was raped in the presence of her husband, Sohanlal, before all the three were killed on 31st March, 1992. There are dozens of such brutal instances. Even wicked Afghans will be feeling sorry in their graves for the sanatic holocaust of the legendary Kashmiri Pandits. The barbarous murder of hundreds of innocent Brahmans of Kashmir caused their seventh and final agonizing mass exodus from the Valley. This was the final knock down of ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Kashmiri Pandits. The mass massacres at Sangrampora (1997), Udhampore (1997), Prankot (1998), Wandhama (1998) and Nadimarg (2003) were the follow up cleansing operations. Pandits in Kashmir dwindled from 10% in 1947 to fewer than 5% in 1989 and to less than 1% today. The pretended world bodies, contaminated human rights organizations, pseudo-secularists, self-styled leaders, so-called policy makers, tainted political parties and slack bureaucracy have failed to express serious concern at this great human tragedy. DANSE MACABRE is still going on.       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Nov 12 20:26:25 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:26:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] dabmsa panel discussion on babri masjid verdict - videos on youtube. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 'dalit, bahujan, adivasi and minorities students association' conducted a panel session in eflu-hyderabad titled 'babri masjid verdict and its implications for the secular nation' (held on 4th nov, 2010). the entire video is available on youtube in ten parts. speakers: asaduddin owaisi, prof. javed alam, dr. m.t. ansari, dr. k. satyanarayana, prof. jahangir, b.s. sherin. the link is: http://www.youtube.com/user/dabmsa#p/u From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Nov 13 10:02:29 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:02:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Burqa in Afghanistan Message-ID: The Afghan blues Advocates of veil say it earns women respect. But women have been punished, killed, flogged and insulted even under burka. Last year, the 'Swat video' shamelessly aired by Pakistani TV channels, showed a girl pinned to ground and flogged by Taliban. She was wearing burka! Sahar Saba A week ago on my way home from work, in one of Kabul's dusty and unclean streets I saw a little girl clad in a blue burka. She was hardly six and the burka was especially tailored to fit her size. She was playing with other children and was proudly displaying her burka. Her cute demeanor attracted my attention. I kept watching her for a while. The manner she was conducting her movements inside the burka made me smile. As I was leaving, the thought of this child's future made me sad too. She and millions in her age will be most likely forced under burka as me and my generation was. The situation has not changed for my generation radically US' claims notwithstanding. This little girl reminded me my childhood as well. Every time my mother would receive women guests, we had extra burkas in our home. It provided my siblings and cousins a chance to have enough burkas to play different games. We used burkas to play hide and seek. We used burkas for role-playing. In the absence of playgrounds, toys and recreational activities the burkas used to be fun for us growing up in Refugee Camps outside of Peshawar in Pakistan. It was fun also because we would play with the burkas and cast them off when bored. My mother or other women in the family would remind us: 'don't worry, soon you will have to wear it then you will know how it really feels!' Back then it did not make any sense to me. Years later when Taliban were in control of Kabul, I was traveling to Afghanistan from Pakistan. Now I was an activist. In the first place, my family did not impose burka on me. Secondly, I would have resisted it. But to enter Afghanistan, I had to disappear under the infamous blue shroud associated with Afghanistan. On my way to border town of Torkham, I had my burka folded in my lap. I was wondering all the way if I would be able to manage wearing burka? Would I be able to walk and see properly so that I don't attract Taliban's attention? As soon we reached Torkham, my travel companion told me that from Torkham onwards, I was not allowed to go without burka. It was a hot summer day. Like other women, I disappeared under the blue bag. It was suffocating. My visibility drastically reduced. It was indeed difficult to walk. I recalled the warning: 'don't worry, soon you will have to wear it then you will know how it really feels!' We the poor Afghan women have to remain under burka all our lives. Even if we are about to die, we are still not allowed to cast the blue bag off. A few days ago, my mother was accompanying one of her relatives to a doctor. A young mother of two, this relation of my mother was pregnant yet again. She was indeed suffering. We all thought she would die. On her way to doctor, she had forgotten about her kids owing to the pain she was suffering from. But she did not forget to wear burka as she left home. She knew if she did not wear it, her husband and other men in the family would be angry. It doesn't matter if a woman is sick, if one is allergic to burka, one has problem with her eye sight, all this is woman's issue. Men's issue is burka. It protects their "honor" ! Today in Afghanistan more than 95 percent of women, for different reasons (security, family tradition, imposition by men in family) have to wear burka. Unfortunately, burka has arrived parts of Afghanistan it was absent historically until fifteen years ago. In Noristan, for instance, where women were often working in fields, they never dressed themselves in burka. It was under Taliban's rule, even Noristani women were driven under burka. If they did not cover themselves, they were punished. During my long stay in Pakistan, I often would come across strange arguments. Pardah (veil), I was informed by Pardah enthusiasts, earns women respect. But in our society women have been punished, killed, flogged and insulted even under burka. Last year, the 'Swat video' shamelessly aired by Pakistani TV channels, showed a girl pinned to ground and flogged by Taliban. She was wearing burka! I have been asked many times by my Afghan sisters and when depressed I myself sometimes wonder if something is wrong with us, are we such a shame that we must be concealed so that we are not seen! No, like my sisters here in Afghanistan, I know there is nothing wrong with us. It is our society, our traditions, Afghan laws and patriarchy that is wrong. Burka we know is a tool to control women. But for Afghan woman, it is a sad reality that burka enables her to go out for education or work and offers a refuge from insults hurled by men on the streets. The blue shroud is paradoxically Afghan woman's prison as well as an intangible liberator too. This is why out of 10 women, for example even in Kabul, one finds nine in burka. They don't feel safe outside their homes without burkas. For activist women, particularly on the countryside and in small towns, burka has its own 'importance'. It was and is a tool of struggle. During Taliban's time and even now, burka offers protection as women would carry books, cameras and other documents under their blue burkas. For us in Afghanistan, wearing or not wearing a burka is not as simple a debate as in the West. Though I personally hope and wish there soon is a chance for Afghan women to be free from this head to toe bag yet I also understand how much has to be done in the fields of education, security, culture and development before we can get rid of burka. Sahar Saba is an Afghan women rights' activist. For many years, she was spokesperson of Revolutionary Afghan Women Association (RAWA). Also, she has worked with RAWA for many years in refugee camps in Pakistan and in Afghanistan in different capacities. She has traveled to many countries in the past several years to speak on behalf of Afghan women. She was born in Kabul. Her family migrated to Pakistan where Sahar Saba became active with RAWA. She has a law degree from London University and writes on issues facing Afghan women. From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Nov 13 11:22:25 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 11:22:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Faiz Centenary Message-ID: Faiz Ahmed Faiz centenary celebrations - 2011 A statement by Progressive Writers Association (PWA) Faiz Ahmad Faiz was one of the most prominent Pakistani poets who won unparalleled global acclaim. He symbolised all that is humane, dignified, refined, brave and challenging and patriotic in Pakistani society. His poetry reflects his intellectual resentment and resistance against an unjust and archaic social order which he rejects on rational grounds as anti human; yet it has no bitterness. He remains loving and loveable, respected and respectful. Faiz's poetry articulates the aspirations, anguish, pain and suffering of not only the people of Pakistan but that of the whole world, as well as their unremitting resolve to create a better and just society. His was the voice of sanity, for he sought peace in a troubled world. Faiz lived in the times of literary giants like Josh Malihabadi, Sardar Jafri, Kaifi Azmi, Majaz Lakhnawi, Majrooh Sultanpuri, Pablo Neruda, Nazim Hikmet, Rasul Gamzatov, Ralph Russell and many others. Faiz was their equal, and can rightfully claim a place in this galaxy of world-renowned poets. Faiz is recognised and respected by the literati of the world. His works have been translated in many languages including translations in almost all the languages of the erstwhile Soviet Union . In present times when the identity of the Pakistani people has been severely tarnished by the self-appointed protagonists of Islam who are engaged in heinous crimes against humanity, there is no one better than Faiz to project the real self of the nation. Through Faiz we can show the world that the people of Pakistan are a happy lot - tolerant, accommodating, peaceful, loving and warmhearted. The year 2011 will be the 100th birth anniversary of Faiz. This will be celebrated throughout the world by admirers of this great poet of the twentieth century. It will be a befitting tribute to the memory of Faiz if this occasion is made the platform from which to project the real image of Pakistan by widely disseminating his message of humanity, peace and brotherhood. Mission The mission of the Progressive Writers Association (PWA) of Pakistan is to hold Faiz centenary celebrations throughout the year 2011, both in the country and abroad. The PWA Pakistan invites all institutions, organisations, groups and individuals from Pakistan and around the world to come forward and join hands in an endeavor to celebrate the 100th birth anniversary of this most prominent son of the nation in a befitting manner that will aptly project his ideals and the central concerns of his poetical work. In Pakistan, at least one event will be organised every fortnight in one of the cities of the country. Efforts will be made to celebrate the event in as many foreign countries as possible, especially in those places where there is a significant presence of the Pakistani and South Asian Diaspora. We aim to enlist the participation of the indigenous intelligentsia, literati, artists, media persons and other segments of the civil society. We are aiming to focus on the following foreign cites/countries where events to celebrate the Faiz Centenary will be organised: India (Amritsar, Chandigarh, Delhi, Aligarh, Luckhnow, Allahbad, Bhopal, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Kolkata and any other cities where this might be possible); Bangladesh (Dhaka); Nepal (Katmandu); U.K. (London, Oxford, Cambridge, Bradford/ Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester); U.S.A. (New York, Chicago, Washington D.C., Houston, Los Angeles and San Francisco); Canada (Toronto, Calgary and Montreal); Germany (Berlin); Holland (Amsterdam); Sweden (Stockholm); France (Paris); Italy (Rome); Russia (Moscow); Gulf (Dubai/Abu Dhabi and Muscat). If found practicable, events will also be organised in Cuba (Havana), Japan (Tokyo/Osaka), Australia (Sydney), Turkey (Istanbul), P.R.China (Beijing) , Iran (Tehran), and South Africa . Main Objective In Pakistan: To promote peace and harmony amongst people of all races and nationalities, transcending religious, ethnic and linguistic differences. Globally: To present Faiz as the ambassador of the soul and feelings of the people of Pakistan by projecting his poetry and other literary works, as well as his struggle for world peace and prosperity. Central Theme of the Faiz Centenary Aaiyey hath uthaein hum bhi Baraey amn-e-alam aur insani khushhali Come, we too should raise our hands (in supplication) For world peace, and for the prosperity of its people Process The aim is to spark peoples' interest in his person as a poet of the people and in his poetry as an inspiration to work for a better world and to gather all sections of society in the collective celebration of Faiz's Centenary-an amorphous yet synchronous event that would be democratic, inclusive and universal in its approach. We would be working to create an umbrella association of individuals, informal groups and organizations that have an interest in Faiz and can act as 'nodes' in their part of the world. While the central theme of the celebrations-'Aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi' for world peace and for the prosperity of its people (appropriately representative of Faiz's oeuvre)-would remain the defining sentiment, organisers would be free to opt for any idea or expression inspired by Faiz's life and work. The celebrations will be a combination of online and on-ground activities. Online, because we can and will use our existing network and overcome the physical limitations of geographical boundaries. On-ground activities will include academic conferences, seminars and lectures in addition to music and dance performances, theater, films, mushaeras, and exhibitions of paintings, books and photographs where possible. All this, and what ever else can possibly be done. If Faiz has been re-imagined or his work has been rendered in song, on canvas or in a theatrical performance, and if Faiz has been translated, then our effort must be to make that piece of work widely accessible. From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 13 14:31:45 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 01:01:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Gold Coast Ramlila Message-ID: <577111.89242.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> 'ramlila' = the dramatic enactment of the 'ramayana' with roots in folk-theatre that, traditionally with a spread of 10 days for the performance, ends with burning effigies of 'ravana' on 'dusshera' day (more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramlila )   an interesting example of how 'ramlila' from the folk-theatre form (as is not uncommon) has mainstreamed into the urban environments with retention of the theatrical-style but improvisation in 'lines', dress, musical accompaniment etc   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFUmlKqwqRA   AND   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCnXuP8V71Y     .......... aalok aima From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 13 15:01:09 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 01:31:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Dilemmas_of_=E2=80=98Right_of_Nations_to_?= =?utf-8?q?Self_Determination=E2=80=99=3A_Rohini_Hensman?= Message-ID: <221162.24517.qm@web120212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> i disagree with some of the assumptions and deductions but it is a very thought provoking piece by rohini hensman with well laid out perspectives and arguments around 'aazadi', 'nations' and 'self-determination'   ......... aalok aima     http://kafila.org/2010/11/13/dilemmas-of-right-of-nations-to-self-determination-rohini-hensman/   Dilemmas of ‘Right of Nations to Self Determination’: Rohini Hensman   The hectic discussion over the Kashmir meeting in Delhi in October entitled ‘Azadi – The Only Way’ has made it urgent to revisit the debate between Lenin and Luxemburg on the right of nations to self-determination. Lenin, starting from his experience in imperialist Russia, insisted on the right of nations like the Ukraine to self-determination (in the sense of their right to form separate states), contending that denial of this right would merely strengthen Great Russian nationalism. In a colonial situation, Lenin was surely right. When a country is under foreign occupation, all sections other than a very small number of collaborators want to be free of the occupiers, even if there are sharp differences between these sections. A striking example is RAWA (the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan) which, despite speaking for a section of the population which is sorely oppressed by the Taliban, and continuing to fight against it, nonetheless shares with the latter the goal of ending the occupation by US and NATO forces. In such situations, the right of an occupied nation to self-determination makes sense.   So why did Rosa Luxemburg reject the whole notion so passionately? Her question was: Who embodies or represents the ‘nation’, given that it consists of groups that are often at loggerheads with one another? ‘The “nation” should have the “right” to self-determination. But who is that “nation” and who has the authority and the “right” to speak for the “nation” and express its will? How can we find out what the “nation” actually wants?’ she asks (Luxemburg 1909). This is surely a valid question where the territory claimed by those who speak for the nation-to-be is shared by others (who may be a minority or even the majority) who do not want to be part of that vision. In such situations, more complex than the clearcut opposition between an imperial power and a colony, Luxemburg’s question needs to be taken seriously.   The LTTE (Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) offers a powerful justification of her reservations. No one apart from rabid Sinhala nationalists would claim that Tamils have not been grievously oppressed in Sri Lanka. But was the LTTE’s solution – armed struggle for national self-determination in the form of an ethno-nationalist Tamil Eelam – an acceptable one? Right from the beginning, it involved massacres and ethnic cleansing of Sinhalese civilians from the territory claimed by LTTE leaders, massacres and ethnic cleansing of Muslims, and the torture and murder of thousands of Tamils who opposed this barbaric vision. Some Sinhalese liberals nonetheless supported their right to fight for freedom from oppression in any way they deemed fit, while doctrinaire Leninists supported their struggle for the right to national self-determination. By doing this, perhaps they felt they absolved themselves of responsibility for the violence that Tamils continued to suffer. But did they? Tamil dissidents felt, on the contrary, that by their implicit endorsement of the LTTE’s claim to be the sole representative of all Tamils, they colluded in the crimes against humanity and war crimes perpetrated by it. And by allowing it to snuff out Tamil political actors capable of negotiating a settlement that would have satisfied most Tamils at a juncture when the government and majority of war-weary Sinhalese were ready for it, they encouraged the LTTE’s militaristic strategy that ended in such disaster for Tamils.   The situation in Kashmir is, if anything, even more complicated. The Indian ultra-nationalists, most vociferously represented by the Sangh Parivar but present even among sections who claim to be more liberal, are undoubtedly a major part of the problem there. Their dogmatic assertion that Kashmir is an integral part of India – as though India’s national boundaries are god-given and any questioning of them is blasphemy – goes with a justification of the horrific atrocities committed against Kashmiris by the Indian security forces. Their allegation of sedition against Arundhati Roy for questioning this dogma, and hysterical outburst against the government-appointed interlocutors for suggesting that any solution to the problem requires the involvement of the government of Pakistan, make it clear that they themselves have no solution to offer short of war between two nuclear-armed countries.   Pretending that Kashmir is not disputed territory must appear to most observers as a typical instance of burying one’s head in the sand to avoid seeing what is obvious to everyone else; breathing fire and brimstone at anyone who acknowledges the reality is obviously a non-starter so far as resolving the problem is concerned. But more disturbingly, advocating coercion to stamp out protest in Kashmir and a clampdown on freedom of expression to prevent discussion of the issue constitutes an assault on democracy. To destroy India’s integrity as a democracy in order to preserve its territorial integrity is, hopefully, not a ‘solution’ that most people would find morally or politically acceptable.   Then is ‘Azadi (Freedom) the Only Way’, as a meeting in Delhi on 21 October 2010 organised by the Committee for the Release of Political Prisoners proclaimed (Minutes 2010)? That does not necessarily follow. Indeed, even the meaning of ‘azadi’ is far from clear. For one of the keynote speakers at the meeting, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, it means that Kashmir would be an Islamic state and would be part of Pakistan. For many others – probably the majority – it means that Kashmir would be independent of both India and Pakistan, and for some of these that it would be a secular state. The only point of agreement among all these sections seems to be that Kashmir would be free of Indian rule, and would encompass all the territory of Jammu and Kashmir on both sides of the border.   Since SAS Geelani was the voice of Azadi at the Delhi meeting, it is worth following through the logic of his position as articulated to a Kashmiri audience (as opposed to positions articulated for the consumption of an Indian human rights audience). He believes that Hindus and Muslims constitute two different nations which have nothing in common with each other, that the only identity a Muslim can possess is that of being a Muslim, and therefore stands for Kashmir’s accession to Islamic Pakistan: i.e., he is opposed to an independent Kashmir, and even more fervently opposed to secularism. But what about citizens of Jammu and Kashmir who disagree with his vision? ‘In Geelani’s writings anti-Indian Sunni Muslims come to be seen as standing in for all the people of the state, while the sizeable remaining population of Jammu and Kashmir (Hindus, dalits, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, many Shia Muslims and non-Kashmiri Pahari Muslims, as well as not a negligible number of Kashmiri Muslims) who are definitely pro-India are completely ignored and silenced as if they are not part of “the people of Jammu and Kashmir”. But it is not every Kashmiri Muslim leader who demands freedom from India who is seen as an “authentic representative” of the people of the entire state in Geelani’s scheme of things. Rather, to Geelani, the mantle of “authenticity” falls on people like himself, Islamists who advocate Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan’ (Sikand 2010). His answer to Luxemburg’s question – ‘who has the authority and the “right” to speak for the “nation” and express its will?’ – is loud and clear: ‘Only I and people who agree with me have the authority and the right to speak for the Kashmiri nation and express its will.’   Unfortunately, this ‘solution’ to the problem of Kashmir suffers from the very same moral weakness (i.e. the use of coercion to force unwilling individuals to be part of the nation) as the Indian state’s attitude to Kashmir. And it is, if anything, politically more reactionary, since India is at least constitutionally secular and democratic, whereas this vision of azadi is neither; indeed, it has a striking resemblance to the majoritarian Hindutva project for India. Geelani is smart enough to see this but doesn’t care, because he is an authoritarian old patriarch for whom democracy is not a value worth defending.   The Violence of the Oppressor and the Violence of the Oppressed   For dogmatic Leninists and Maoists too, the lack of democracy in the ‘solution’ is not a problem, and the moral dilemma is resolved very easily with the mantra that ‘the violence of the oppressor must never be equated with the violence of the oppressed’. It is worth examining this formula more carefully, since it has been used as a cover for many ghastly atrocities. Its unstated premise is that those who are oppressed in one relationship are always and in every relationship the victims of oppression, and can never be oppressors. This may be true in fairy tales, but real life is more complicated. For example, a male worker who is oppressed by his employer may come home and thrash his wife. According to this formula, the male worker is still ‘the oppressed’ in the relationship with his wife, and we must never, ever, equate his brutality to her with the oppression he faces as a worker, even if he kills her. But where does this reasoning lead us? The Zionist state of Israel has made extensive use of it to persuade the world that Jews, who were subjected to genocide in the Nazi holocaust, cannot possibly be guilty of violence against the people of Palestine; it denounces as ‘anti-Semitism’ any comparison of the ghettos into which the Jews were herded with the ghettos into which the Palestinians have been herded, because (of course!) one must never equate the violence of the oppressors (the Nazis) with the violence of the oppressed (the Zionists).   To break out of this dilemma, we need to be able to deal with more complex equations, and admit that the categories of ‘oppressor’ and ‘oppressed’ are not only not mutually exclusive, but may work in opposite directions even in the same relationship (e.g. white woman, black man). Once we do this, it becomes crystal clear that what is often justified as ‘the violence of the oppressed’ is actually the violence of oppressors, albeit different oppressors from those who are seen as being ‘the enemy’. For example, the LTTE’s violence against Sinhalese and Muslim civilians, Tamil dissenters and Tamil children whom they recruited forcibly, was all the violence of the oppressor. The Taliban’s violence against women and ethnic and religious minorities is the violence of the oppressor. Only where the violence is directed strictly towards actors inflicting violence on a community can we talk of the violence of the oppressed: Vietnamese shooting down planes that were dropping bombs and napalm on their towns and villages, South Africans fighting against the Apartheid state, and so on. Yes, in such cases we should not equate the violence of an imperialist/colonial state with the armed resistance to such violence. But we can say this only when we have examined each case to see who the victims of the so-called ‘violence of the oppressed’ are.   Blanket support for those who are seen to be fighting for the oppressed is the surest way to turn them into oppressors even if they are not oppressors already. It also creates a hierarchy of rights between ‘us’, whose have human rights, and ‘them’, who have none. In this view, a Tamil child killed by the Sri Lankan army has human rights, while a Sinhalese child killed by the LTTE has none; therefore the former killing is a violation of human rights, the latter is not. University Teachers for Human Rights (Jaffna) won the prestigious Martin Ennals Award for Human Rights Defenders in 2007 (Martin Ennals Award 2007) precisely because they risked their lives to challenge this discriminatory conception. By documenting – and condemning – human rights violations by all the warring parties, they not only provided a source of information far more reliable than the propaganda of the Sri Lankan government and the LTTE, but also provided a moral compass to guide Tamil democracy acivists through the quagmire of gruesome atrocities.   Unlike the Maoists, Arundhati Roy is not comfortable with the assumption that sharing a platform with Geelani amounts to an endorsement of his politics, although that conclusion would be the normal one. Asked this question in an interview, she replied, ‘Speaking for myself, I disagree with many of his views, and I’ve written about it… As for him being involved in the internecine battles within the Kashmiri leadership – yes that’s true. Terrible things happened in the nineties, fratricidal killings – and Geelani has been implicated in some of them. But internecine battles are a part of many resistance movements. They are NOT the same thing as State sponsored killings. In South Africa, the African National Congress (ANC) and Black Consciousness had vicious fights in which many hundreds were killed, including Steve Biko. Would you say then, that sitting on the same platform as Nelson Mandela is a crime?’ (Choudhary and Roy 2010).   There are three things wrong with this strange defence. One: Roy is surely the first person to accuse Nelson Mandela of having had a hand in the death of Steve Biko. Biko was killed by the Apartheid state in 1977, while Mandela was serving a twenty-seven-year prison sentence imposed by the same state: how could he possibly have had anything to do with it? It was not an ‘internecine battle’ but a state-sponsored killing, which, as Roy says, is NOT the same thing. (Incidentally, isn’t ‘internecine battles’ a euphemism for the murder of rivals, not so very different from the euphemism of referring to state assassinations as ‘encounters’? Both ‘internecine battles’ and ‘encounters’ suggest that the two sides are engaged in mutual combat, whereas the reality is that one side is gunning down the other in cold blood.) Two: Mandela was fighting against an Apartheid state in which discrimination against non-Whites was written into the constitution; by contrast, Geelani is fighting against the Indian state, whose constitution affirms non-discrimination on the grounds of ethnicity, religion, sex, etc. And three: Mandela was fighting for a democratic state whose constitution would guarantee non-discrimination on the grounds of ethnicity, religion, sex, etc, whereas Geelani is fighting for a theocratic state whose constitution will guarantee discrimination on the grounds of ethnicity, religion, sex, etc. So it is not a crime to sit on the same platform as Nelson Mandela, but sharing a platform with Geelani is not quite as blameless. To acknowledge the tragedy of the expulsion of the Kashmiri Pandits while sharing a platform with a man whose politics would make them (at best) second-class citizens without political rights certainly seems inconsistent. Fighting on two fronts – against the state on one side and a self-styled liberation group on the other – is difficult and dangerous, but sometimes there is no other option, as Tamil democracy activists found. Perhaps the same is true of the struggle for democracy in Kashmir.   Self-determination for everyone   Luxemburg’s point was that the ‘nation’ has no unified ‘self’ or ‘will’, because it consists of diverse classes and groups that are often at loggerheads with one another. By pretending that the ‘nation’ has a unified ‘will’, proponents of the doctrine of the ‘right of nations to self-determination’ privilege the leaders of the most powerful group in the prospective nation, ignoring or disempowering others, and in some cases even encouraging the most powerful group to annihilate or evict the others, as happened in Sri Lanka. Nor is this an unmixed blessing for the group whom the leaders claim to represent, because the policies of the leadership may result in unnecessary suffering for them too, as in the case of the Sri Lankan Tamils. Similarly in Kashmir, it is not only the Pandits who have suffered as a result of the Islamist vision of azadi. ‘Between 1989 and 1991 tens of thousands of Kashmiri youths crossed over the Line of Control and went to a land of their dreams – Pakistan, which many of them thought was a place where there was justice, peace and tranquility; but most were terribly disillusioned by the experience, and ended up feeling bitter at the deception that had trapped them ‘between a rock and a hard place’ (Choudhry 2010).   A solution that protects the democratic rights of all the diverse peoples of Jammu and Kashmir cannot be summed up in the slogan of ‘Azadi’ or formula of ‘the right of nations to self-determination’; it requires a process of discussion and negotiation between all the diverse peoples in the state. The only thing that can be said with certainty is that such a solution cannot be found while a military occupation by Indian forces continues torturing, raping and killing civilians with impunity. The most disturbing part of this horrifying account of a little Kashmiri boy beaten to death for venturing into the street to retrieve his ball (Javaid 2010) is that – as in the case of the Wikileaks revelations – it is the perpetrator with a conscience who has to undergo disciplinary action, while those who are gung-ho about their act of sadism go scot free. This suggests that such atrocities are the rule rather than the exception, and that they have sanction from above. And how could it be otherwise, when the chiefs of the armed forces are adamant that the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act (AFSPA), which provides impunity for such crimes, must stay? All their arguments fall to the ground the moment they are scrutinised. They say that repealing the act will provide ‘carte blanche’ to insurgents, but do not explain how their ceasing to rape, torture and kill unarmed civilians will aid armed insurgents. On the contrary, reports of the recent outbreak of stone-pelting make it clear that the gratuitous violence of the security forces encouraged by impunity is actually the main cause of the problem, not any kind of solution to it (Parthasarathy 2010). The most bizarre argument is that punishing perpetrators of such crimes will ‘demoralise’ the armed forces. Surely security forces that beat little boys to death for sport have already lost much of their legitimacy? Wouldn’t punishing the psychopaths who engage in such activities help to rebuild their morale?   The decision as to whether AFSPA and other laws providing impunity for crimes committed by state security forces should be repealed or not is a political – not military – decision. Such laws violate the constitution in multiple ways. By dividing citizens into two sections, one of which (state security forces) can commit crimes with impunity while the other (civilian victims) cannot appeal to the law for protection, they violate the right to equality under the law and equal protection of the law, and also deprive civilians of other fundamental rights, including the right to life. As a public statement by concerned citizens puts it, ‘Draconian legislations like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, the Jammu and & Kashmir Public Safety Act and the Disturbed Areas Act continue to facilitate human rights abuses in the valley…We therefore demand that the government take full cognizance of the continuing violation of human rights in the valley, make the security forces fully accountable so that the guilty can be prosecuted and punished’ (Public Statement 2010).   The marathon ten-year fast of Irom Sharmila, winner of the Rabindranath Tagore Peace Prize and many other awards, is in pursuance of the same demand. Her towering moral stature, as she continues to demonstrate her willingness to sacrifice her life in order to save innocents from suffering, injury and death, contrasts starkly with the immorality of security forces willing to inflict suffering, injury and death on innocents in order to avoid risking their own lives, and of political leaders who refuse to repeal AFSPA despite the fact that ‘The judicial inquiry commission headed by Justice Jeevan Reddy, instituted by the Central government to examine the advisability or otherwise of repealing the AFSPA, submitted a 147-page report on June 6, 2005, recommending repeal of the law’ (Iboyaima Laithangbam 2010).   ‘Azadi’ may seem like a more revolutionary demand than the repeal of AFSPA, but it is not. As we saw, ‘azadi’ is compatible with authoritarianism, ethnic cleansing and the murder of political rivals: hardly a radical departure from the present. By contrast, the repeal of AFSPA and other laws providing impunity for human rights violations by the army and other security forces would help to provide an atmosphere in which the people of Kashmir and the North-East could work out solutions that guarantee democracy and self-determination for all, and not just for a privileged or dominant section. In India, a campaign for ‘Azadi’ may not get widespread support, partly because the meaning of the slogan is unclear and partly because the goal may be a situation no better than the present one, whereas a campaign against draconian legislation and human rights violations could appeal to a far wider constituency, on the grounds that failure to take up these issues undermines both India’s moral legitimacy and its claim to be a democracy. From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Nov 13 15:10:44 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 15:10:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://media.photobucket.com/image/magritee/girto/magritte-rape.jpg http://www.artnet.com/Galleries/Artwork_Detail.asp?G=&gid=1161&which=&ViewArtistBy=&aid=661456&wid=77723&source=artist&rta=http://www.artnet.com above two interesting paintings by Magritte thanks Dear for posting the detailed report about this artist Princess Hijab's action , a very profound, and it not certainly tilted towards the Burka Pasand ideology, there the women are supposed not to expose even little hair on the forehead, no naked feet, let alone the hair upon legs and thighs, it is a very serious work and critics the heavily tilted bourgeoisie culture prevalent there. hope to read some more comments on this by others too, which is a world wide debate at the moment love is On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:03 AM, SJabbar wrote: >  Cornered ­ Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti artist > Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked fashion ads on the metro. > Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? And is she really a > woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street artist > > Angelique Chrisafis > The Guardian,     Thursday 11 November 2010 > > Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, Paris's first commuters > are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at the end of the platform, > a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping with nerves. > > Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. Striking at night with > dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils on the half-naked > airbrushed women ­ and men ­ of the metro's fashion adverts. She calls it > "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been exhibited from New York to > Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and fundamentalism ­ yet her > identity remains a mystery. > > In secular republican France, there can hardly be a more potent visual gag > than scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six years after a law banned > headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from state schools, > Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from public spaces amid a > fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil liberties. The "burqa > ban", approved last month, means that from next year it will be illegal for > a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not just in government > offices or on public transport, but in the streets, supermarkets and private > businesses. The government says it is a way of protecting women's rights and > stopping them being forced by men to cover their faces. > > Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One female teacher in favour of > the ban was last week given a month's suspended jail sentence for trying to > rip a veil from the face of a 26-year-old Emirati tourist in a shop, then > slapping, scratching and biting her. On the other side of the argument, two > French women calling themselves "niqabitch" reproduced the classic visual > mixed metaphor of walking around central Paris in niqabs, black hotpants, > bare legs and high heels, posting a film of it online in order to highlight > the "absurdity" of the ban. > > But Princess Hijab got there first, and her simple, almost childlike acts of > sabotage with a black marker pen still manage to be the most unsettling, > with the widest audience abroad. Yet who is she? A French Muslim woman in > hijab raging at the system? That would be a rare thing on Paris's > male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a religious fundamentalist making a > point about female flesh? But she likes to leaves a witty smattering of > buttock cheeks and midriff on display. If she's a leftwing feminist making a > point about the exploitation of women, it's odd that she always flees the > scene of her crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like to imagine a young > rebel outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos travelling to the capital to > make her mark. But like Paris's greatest street artist, Blek le Rat ‹ who > inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be a fiftysomething white > man who voted for Sarkozy. > > The Princess winds through the corridors of Havre-Caumartin sizing up the > advertising posters lining the walls. She has agreed to meet as she scours > stations for targets for her next "niqab intervention". In Spandex tights, > shorts and a hoodie, with a long black wig totally obscuring her face, one > thing is clear; the twentysomething doesn't wear the niqab that has become > her own signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In fact, it's more than > likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's a low note in her > laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the androgynous figure in > black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity behind Princess Hijab is of > no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. "The imagined self has > taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic choice." > > "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll stick to "she" as the > character is female, even if the person behind it is perhaps not). > > "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits that enveloped bodies, > more classic art than fashion. And I'd been drawing veiled women on > skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I felt I wanted to confront the > outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No Logo and it inspired me to risk > intervening in public places, targeting advertising." > > The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the "niqabisation" of the > album poster of France's most famous female rapper, Diam's, who by strange > coincidence has now converted to Islam herself. "It's intriguing because > she's now wearing the veil," the Princess muses. Intially she graffitied > men, women and children and then would stand around to gauge the public's > response; now she does hit-and-runs. "I don't care about people's reactions. > I can see this makes people feel awkward and ill at ease, I can understand > that, you're on your way home after a tough day and suddenly you're > confronted with this." > > With the Paris metro protective of its advertising spaces, her work now > usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before being ripped down by > officials. She has become highly selective, doing only four or five graffiti > "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is carefully photographed and has > its own afterlife circulating online. The "niqabised" range from Dolce & > Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts for Virgin bookshops. > > Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a challenge," she says, quick to > add that she believes no one way of dressing is either good or bad. She's > not defending the rights of any group and no one needs her as a > spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If veiled women want to make a point, > they'd do it themselves. If feminists want to do something they're capable > of doing it on their own." She later explains by email: "The veil has many > hidden meanings, it can be as profane as it is sacred, consumerist and > sanctimonious. From Arabic Gothicism to the condition of man. The > interpretations are numerous and of course it carries great symbolism on > race, sexuality and real and imagined geography." > > Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, but the one issue that > really shakes her ­ and perhaps reveals a little of her true identity ­ is > the place of minorities in France. Beyond the arguments about whether Muslim > women should cover their heads, Sarkozy's new ministry of "immigration and > national identity" and his national debate on what it means to be French has > stigmatised the already discriminated and ghettoised young people of third- > and fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has the largest Muslim > population in Europe, but the prevailing anti-immigrant discourse, and what > many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the feelings of > marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. > > Princess Hijab sees herself as part of a new "graffiti of minorities" > reclaiming the streets. "If it was only about the burqa ban, my work > wouldn't have a resonance for very long. But I think the burqa ban has given > a global visibility to the issue of integration in France," she says. "We > definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups in boxes, always > reducing them to the same old questions about religion or urban violence. > Education levels are better and we can't have the old Manichean discourse > any more." > > She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, that's a republican principle, but > in reality the issue of minorities in French society hasn't really evolved > in half a century. The outsiders in France are still the poor, the Arabs, > black and of course, the Roma." > > The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She simply says she sees her > work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out of the underbelly of > the city where "I bring inside everything that's been excreted out." > > And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its anti-consumerism and > ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on adverts works visually > because the two are "dogmas that can be questioned". She feels young women > wearing the hijab who were once stigmatised by French institutions are now > being targeted for their purchasing power, the "perfect customers" in > France's increasingly consumerist society. > > Her next spree will focus on her favourite target brand, H&M. After all, its > ad campaigns are plastered all over the Paris metro. She argues that the > brand "democratised" fashion at low prices, women in hijab often shop there, > and inking out H&M models is the perfect act of confrontation: "It's > visually very striking because [the brand's] images are ideologically very > present in the urban landscape." > > So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent everything but religion. "Am I > religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual interests me, but that's > personal, I don't think it bears on my work. Religion interests me, Muslims > interest me and the impact they can have, artistically, aesthetically, in > the codes that are all around us, particularly in fashion," she muses. > > And with that, the graffiti performance artist scuttles off, kit-bag over > her shoulder, to change out of her bizarre disguise and into her own > everyday fashion and wander off above ground into the daylight. > > guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2010 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Nov 13 15:15:04 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 15:15:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Faiz Centenary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: aayiyaa haath uthaya hum bi hum bi hum jinhian rasmay dua yaad nahin On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 11:22 AM, SJabbar wrote: > > Faiz Ahmed Faiz centenary celebrations - 2011 > A statement by Progressive Writers Association (PWA) > Faiz Ahmad Faiz was one of the most prominent Pakistani poets who won > unparalleled global acclaim. He symbolised all that is humane, dignified, > refined, brave and challenging and patriotic in Pakistani society. His > poetry reflects his intellectual resentment and resistance against an unjust > and archaic social order which he rejects on rational grounds as anti human; > yet it has no bitterness. He remains loving and loveable, respected and > respectful. > > > > Faiz's poetry articulates the aspirations, anguish, pain and suffering of > not only the people of Pakistan but that of the whole world, as well as > their unremitting resolve to create a better and just society. His was the > voice of sanity, for he sought peace in a troubled world. > > Faiz lived in the times of literary giants like Josh Malihabadi, Sardar > Jafri, Kaifi Azmi, Majaz Lakhnawi, Majrooh Sultanpuri, Pablo Neruda, Nazim > Hikmet, Rasul Gamzatov, Ralph Russell and many others. Faiz was their equal, > and can rightfully claim a place in this galaxy of world-renowned poets. > > Faiz is recognised and respected by the literati of the world. His works > have been translated in many languages including translations in almost all > the languages of the erstwhile Soviet Union . > > In present times when the identity of the Pakistani people has been severely > tarnished by the self-appointed protagonists of Islam who are engaged in > heinous crimes against humanity, there is no one better than Faiz to project > the real self of the nation. Through Faiz we can show the world that the > people of Pakistan are a happy lot - tolerant, accommodating, peaceful, > loving and warmhearted. > > The year 2011 will be the 100th birth anniversary of Faiz. This will be > celebrated throughout the world by admirers of this great poet of the > twentieth century. > > It will be a befitting tribute to the memory of Faiz if this occasion is > made the platform from which to project the real image of Pakistan by widely > disseminating his message of humanity, peace and brotherhood. > > Mission > > The mission of the Progressive Writers Association (PWA) of Pakistan is to > hold Faiz centenary celebrations throughout the year 2011, both in the > country and abroad. > > The PWA Pakistan invites all institutions, organisations, groups and > individuals from Pakistan and around the world to come forward and join > hands in an endeavor to celebrate the 100th birth anniversary of this most > prominent son of the nation in a befitting manner that will aptly project > his ideals and the central concerns of his poetical work. > > In Pakistan, at least one event will be organised every fortnight in one of > the cities of the country. > > Efforts will be made to celebrate the event in as many foreign countries as > possible, especially in those places where there is a significant presence > of the Pakistani and South Asian Diaspora. We aim to enlist the > participation of the indigenous intelligentsia, literati, artists, media > persons and other segments of the civil society. > > We are aiming to focus on the following foreign cites/countries where events > to celebrate the Faiz Centenary will be organised: > > India (Amritsar, Chandigarh, Delhi, Aligarh, Luckhnow, Allahbad, Bhopal, > Hyderabad, Mumbai, Kolkata and any other cities where this might be > possible); Bangladesh (Dhaka); Nepal (Katmandu); U.K. (London, Oxford, > Cambridge, Bradford/ Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester); U.S.A. (New York, > Chicago, Washington D.C., Houston, Los Angeles and San Francisco); Canada > (Toronto, Calgary and Montreal); Germany (Berlin); Holland (Amsterdam); > Sweden (Stockholm); France (Paris); Italy (Rome); Russia (Moscow); Gulf > (Dubai/Abu Dhabi and Muscat). > > If found practicable, events will also be organised in Cuba (Havana), Japan > (Tokyo/Osaka), Australia (Sydney), Turkey (Istanbul), P.R.China (Beijing) , > Iran (Tehran), and South Africa . > > Main Objective > > In Pakistan: To promote peace and harmony amongst people of all races and > nationalities, transcending religious, ethnic and linguistic differences. > > Globally: To present Faiz as the ambassador of the soul and feelings of the > people of Pakistan by projecting his poetry and other literary works, as > well as his struggle for world peace and prosperity. > > Central Theme of the Faiz Centenary > Aaiyey hath uthaein hum bhi > Baraey amn-e-alam aur insani khushhali > Come, we too should raise our hands (in supplication) > For world peace, and for the prosperity of its people > Process > > The aim is to spark peoples' interest in his person as a poet of the people > and in his poetry as an inspiration to work for a better world and to gather > all sections of society in the collective celebration of Faiz's Centenary-an > amorphous yet synchronous event that would be democratic, inclusive and > universal in its approach. > > We would be working to create an umbrella association of individuals, > informal groups and organizations that have an interest in Faiz and can act > as 'nodes' in their part of the world. While the central theme of the > celebrations-'Aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi' for world peace and for the > prosperity of its people (appropriately representative of Faiz's > oeuvre)-would remain the defining sentiment, organisers would be free to opt > for any idea or expression inspired by Faiz's life and work. > > The celebrations will be a combination of online and on-ground activities. > Online, because we can and will use our existing network and overcome the > physical limitations of geographical boundaries. On-ground activities will > include academic conferences, seminars and lectures in addition to music and > dance performances, theater, films, mushaeras, and exhibitions of paintings, > books and photographs where possible. All this, and what ever else can > possibly be done. If Faiz has been re-imagined or his work has been rendered > in song, on canvas or in a theatrical performance, and if Faiz has been > translated, then our effort must be to make that piece of work widely > accessible. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 13 17:52:46 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 04:22:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Jammu And Kashmir: Revenge of the lambs Message-ID: <261788.11940.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> "A group of over 100 Kashmiri Pandits, mostly young professionals, organised under the umbrella of Roots in Kashmir (RIK), now ensure that no protest for "azadi" goes unchallenged." "The aim is clear: to make as much noise as the Kashmiri Muslims in Delhi, and let the sound and fury float through the media. The lambs are turning into lions." "They don't claim to speak for all the 6.5 lakh Kashmiri Pandits outside the Valley (only 3,200 of them are left in Srinagar) but do their best to grab media attention and to connect with other organisations. For this lost generation, the mirror of the one that has grown up in conflict in Kashmir, the idea is to never forget."     (as far as i know, it was not a kashmiri pandit who hurled the shoe at sas geelani)     ........... aalok aima     http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/119075/NATION/jammu-and-kashmir-revenge-of-the-lambs.html   Jammu And Kashmir: Revenge of the lambs Kaveree Bamzai November 6, 2010   The shoe hurled at separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani last fortnight at a function in Delhi was the most visible sign yet of the anger of displaced Kashmiri Pandits, led by children of those who were forced to flee the Valley after 1989. A group of over 100 Kashmiri Pandits, mostly young professionals, organised under the umbrella of Roots in Kashmir (RIK), now ensure that no protest for "azadi" goes unchallenged.   They have spent a night in lock-up for demonstrating at former Union minister Saifuddin Soz's home in Delhi, been dragged away by the police when countering a pro-azadi protest in Delhi, and filed over 200 writs under the RTI Act to check the status of cases against former JKLF militant Bitta Karate, who is accused of killing many Kashmiri Pandits. The aim is clear: to make as much noise as the Kashmiri Muslims in Delhi, and let the sound and fury float through the media. The lambs are turning into lions.   Started in 2006, the RIK has members and causes in common with Panun Kashmir (PK), which was formed in the aftermath of the exodus from the Valley in 1991 to demand a separate homeland. PK now has two major factions, one led by writer Dr Agnishekhar and the other by Dr Ajay Chrungoo. The RIK abides by PK's core objectives but believes in instant, event-based action. It has no office, only a Friday gathering of as many as possible at a coffee shop in Delhi. Its members call themselves strategists, not just street activists, and use modern methods of communication - Facebook, blogs and Twitter. At the centre is Rashneek Kher, a 37-year-old head of logistics at a fertiliser MNC, who was just 10 when he had to leave Kashmir to live as a refugee in Jammu. Dr Manish Mattoo, director, Fortis Escorts Hospital, Raipur, read an inspiring post by Kher on a Kashmiri e-network four years ago and decided to sign up for the RIK. RIK and PK are closely linked through individuals such as PK's National Youth Coordinator Veer Wangnoo, who was 13 when he had to leave Srinagar in 1990 after being roughed up on the playground by his friends.   The senior Patni Computers executive cannot forget that experience: "My classmates were asking me to recite the kalima; I was kicked for carrying a geometry box with the Indian flag; my Muslim barber was murdered by his son and buried in his courtyard for speaking secularism." It is this memory that young Pandits have carried with them, while establishing themselves and kickstarting their careers. It is something they are now determined to counter.   "It is not one day's fight," says 75-year-old writer Shashi Shekhar Toshkahani. "We have to open fire on several fronts." It could be a seminar at Delhi's Nehru Memorial Museum and Library last year where Yasin Malik spoke. "This man has 28 cases registered against him. He has the blood of our community on his hands. If he has the right to speak, we have the right to protest," says Aditya Raj Kaul, a 21-year-old freelance writer, who was just nine months old when his family had to leave Srinagar. It could also be connecting with the Kanchi Mutt, which has decided to set up an IAS coaching centre for young Pandits to restore their presence in the bureaucracy. Or it could be speaking up forcefully at a seminar in Hyderabad when human rights activist Gautam Navlakha was articulating what they believe was a "one-sided" stand on the Amarnath land dispute.   There are also efforts to keep alive the cultural essence of Kashmiri Hindus. There's 18-year-old Radhika Koul, a linguistics student at Yale, who hopes to initiate a standardised teaching system for youngsters to help them speak Kashmiri fluently. The movement has, as the 33-year-old Mattoo points out, "created strong bonds among the activists and other associates, something our community is in dire need of at this hour".   It's evident in a late evening meeting of six Delhi activists, all busy executives, who have gathered at the office of Sushil Pandit, the 47-year-old CEO of an advertising agency, Hive. Sandwiches and samosas are passed around as the group talks of how they don't let slip an opportunity to be heard. Or to make a point which they are doing with a smartly packaged cultural quarterly, Praznath. Or even to simply celebrate the Kashmiri New Year, Navreh, at a recreated Hari Parbat, once the symbol of Kashmir's proud syncretism, in Faridabad.   They don't claim to speak for all the 6.5 lakh Kashmiri Pandits outside the Valley (only 3,200 of them are left in Srinagar) but do their best to grab media attention and to connect with other organisations. For this lost generation, the mirror of the one that has grown up in conflict in Kashmir, the idea is to never forget. From chintan.backups at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 12:10:16 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 12:10:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Relieving our children of labels Message-ID: >From http://www.thehindu.com/arts/magazine/article881892.ece A rose is a rose is a flowerBy ARUNA SANKARANARAYANAN “Dyslexic with features of ADHD”, “intellectually deficient”, “severely autistic” and “learning disabled” are labels that the mental health and special education fraternities stamp on children with resolute certainty. But the ramifications of such classifications are seldom questioned. While diagnostic labels do carry merit and can transform a child's life positively, a label is also a cross that the child has to bear. Analysing the pros and cons of labelling can better orient parents and teachers on how to deal with a diagnosis of a child. Just as a label can enable a child to receive appropriate interventions, the potential drawbacks can also be circumvented if parents are aware of the limiting scope of psychological diagnoses. In many instances, a label imposes order on unfathomable behaviour. Ravi's parents were flummoxed by their son's inability to perform in school as the child seemed bright and even precocious otherwise. From tutors to beatings, from late night coaching to tantalising rewards, his parents had tried everything. Was the child simply lazy, stubborn or stupid? His parents had heated arguments. Finally, when a diagnosis of dyslexia was made, a sense of calm returned to their house. Ravi's reluctance to read for pleasure, his misspellings, his tendency to by-heart his texts, his asking his granny to read aloud to him — suddenly, the child's inexplicable behaviour fell into a coherent pattern. His parents were then able to seek the right kind of remedial instruction and were also able to avail of accommodations on exams. *Helpful diagnosis* Likewise, when Amita received a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome, her parents were able to connect the disparate dots. In addition to putting a stop to misguided treatments, they felt they understood their child. Her inability to sustain eye contact was not just shyness, her inattention not just naughtiness, her inability to adapt to new routines not just adamancy. The frustration of getting her to make friends and follow instructions now morphed into a positive resolve to provide the best help for their special child. As a result, Amita's parents started handling her issues more maturely. “Before she was diagnosed, I thought she was being plain stubborn,” confessed her mother. Thus, while labels can help parents understand and deal with a child in more humane ways, a label can also be extremely confining. Even though diagnostic labels are accorded with black-and-white conviction, often psychological and psychiatric diagnoses encompass many shades of grey. Most psychological constructs like attention, intelligence and depression fall on a continuum; thus, a person's dysphoric mood may range from mild sadness to extreme dejection. Every one of us has periods of inattentiveness, bouts of sadness and a feeling of being intellectually compromised. When does ‘normal' inattentiveness turn into ADHD, regular sadness into depression and incompetence into “borderline intellectual capacity”? While clinical diagnoses are typically made on severity, frequency and duration of symptoms, we must remember that the categorical distinctness implied by a label is not set in stone. Moreover, symptoms across disorders often overlap and two disorders may coexist in a person, thus making diagnosis a rather thorny affair. Second, a label boxes a child within a clinical frame and brings the disability into focus. As sociologist Erving Goffman points out, a person with a label has to be extremely mindful of “minor failings” as all his behaviour is perceived through the lens of his disability. Thus, if a child who is known to be mildly autistic throws a tantrum, his misbehaviour is seen as a manifestation of his autism. However, if his autism is not known to the observer, his tantrum may be viewed as a regular part of growing up. *Focusing on negatives* Labels also highlight a child's deficits without paying any heed to her individual strengths. A child may have ADHD, but can have extraordinary musical talent; a child with Asperger's may be a gifted painter; a dyslexic may be an avid bird-watcher and a slow-learner very compassionate towards pets. A label also ignores environmental features that may exacerbate a problem. A child with ADHD may be inattentive in an academic setting but may be able to sustain focus and build elaborate models while playing with a Lego set. While the label points a finger at the child, it does not brand the context that may exacerbate a child's difficulties. Moreover, labels tend to perpetuate stereotypes and disregard individual differences. According to psychologists Beatrice Wright and Shane Lopez, “human perception is coerced by the mere act of grouping things together.” While we readily accept that ‘normal' kids can be quite different in terms of their personalities, preferences and proclivities, we tend to assume that all children with a particular clinical tag are alike. However, we do not realise that children are labelled based on a finite number of attributes. Thus, kids with the same label can differ considerably on other dimensions. So while most children with autism have difficulties with communication and social skills, they vary not only in terms of the severity of their deficiencies, but also with regard to their interests, hobbies and intellectual capacities. *Never neutral* Finally, labels are not as neutral as they seem on a clinical report. Parents and children have to cope with the social stigma that sticks like static to clinical labels and the discrimination that results from them. As a society, we Indians tend to be rather unforgiving and categorise people for life. The idea that an individual can change and succeed despite failing early on is not readily embraced by the average Indian. Once a child acquires a label, she has to carry its load on her fragile shoulders for life. Even the developers of DSM-IV, the Bible of psychiatric classification, emphasise that it is essential to “capture additional information that goes far beyond diagnosis”. As Wright and Lopez point out, when a child receives a label, parents and teachers may try and reduce the child's deficits by providing the child with various interventions. But it is equally important that we pay attention to a child's strengths and nurture them. Furthermore, we need to assess the environments in which children operate and provide as many resources and opportunities so that each child can flourish in unique and different ways. *The author is Director, PRAYATNA, Centre for Educational Assessment & Intervention. She may be reached at: arunasankara at gmail.com* From chintan.backups at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 12:19:14 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 12:19:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shabnam Hashmi's article on Blue Mountain School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From http://www.thehindu.com/arts/magazine/article881896.ece I found my daughter again By Shabnam Hashmi It was around this time last year that I shut myself off for two months from all work, perhaps for the first time in the last 25 years. I had visited more than 20 residential schools around Delhi, some alone, some with my daughter and some both with my daughter and husband. Many schools were eager to take her. In fact, one can always find enough schools which will take your child if you have the money to pay. Money was always a constraint but that was definitely not the deciding factor now. My daughter had lost all interest in academics, she was almost at the bottom, and the school either did not have the time or the inclination to discover any other talent. In the absence of such a situation she had become a timid child with very low self esteem and confidence in her capabilities. *Withdrawn* Probably Father Cedric Prakash would still remember the lovely drawings that Seher made sitting in Prashant office at Ahmedabad every time she travelled with me to Gujarat. She hadn't touched the colours for years. Her school had offered to continue her in open school system and allow her to come thrice a week for separate classes. I didn't mind the open school but was not ready for this ‘special' treatment. I decided to withdraw her. The principal, a good friend, asked me if I was sure; I told her that the school was good for ‘good' children. My daughter needed to be understood. She disagreed and I did too. After almost a month of travelling to Dehradun, Simla, Ajmer, Alwar and many other places, I decided to rely again on the Internet revolution. During one of the search sessions past midnight I came across an alternate education school based in Ooty, Tamil Nadu. Too far, was the first thought that crossed my mind but the website caught my attention. It was the most ordinary website, without any glitter, without any photographs of children taking awards from celebrities, it did not boast of excellent results and toppers in board exams. I found two tiny sepia photographs in which two different children were playing with clay. The website said, ‘If, as a parent, you are not happy with conventional schooling where education means only the quantity of information passed rather than the quality, then we should meet!' I remembered Seher sitting in Father Cedric Prakash's office with crayons, drawing girls with long plaits and the happiness on her face when the drawing was done. Her eyes no longer twinkled. I decided to write to the school. I got a reply from Archana, the principal, and a long e-mail conversation started. We exchanged mails about us, about Seher, about the school. Seher, Gauhar and I landed in the school in December last year for a visit. Seher joined the school in February this year. We talk to Seher every Sunday between six and seven p.m. and she writes a letter every Thursday. Both my children Sahir and Seher have been shuddh non-vegetarians. The school is totally vegetarian. She says she loves the food. Last Sunday when I called her up she told me she couldn't write any letter that week as she had been busy and had forgotten! Sometimes she is in charge of washing dishes, sometimes she is helping in the dining room serve food, sometimes making musical instruments out of trash, sometimes rehearsing with a band of similar musicians, sometimes digging mud, sometimes spending hours in the library researching a project. There are no books, no classes. Last term when I went to pick her up for the break, SK told me her understanding of science and maths is good. I simply stared at him in disbelief. For many years I had not heard a good word about my daughter. She fights with Shondeep (Sandeep) all the time, Archana is all-time favourite. Mallika says her English comprehension is rather good! Jaggu's reference usually comes when letters are posted to or delivered from home. I can't decipher if she is telling me about her friends or teachers or the principal herself. She has sent me a poem written by her and has been doing theatre, learning Carnatic music, rock climbing, clay modelling, a workshop on painting. She has started drawing again, though she is only copying and not drawing anything on her own. During one of the Sunday conversations she told me that she has been looking at Michelangelo's paintings in a book. I no longer know if it is happening or if I am imagining this. *Opening up* During the vacation, she started asking me about my work. She visited Mewat villages with me; she took her Nani to all the museums. There was a slipping back too but she came out of it herself. We could talk to each other. At night we talked for hours about everything on earth from serious to nonsensical, we laughed, and we hugged each other and slept. There are some questions which people like to ask. In which class is she? When will she give the 10t h board? What does she want to become? I am reminded of the website again: “A mind that has merely been trained is the continuation of the past, and such a mind can never discover the new…the right kind of education consists in understanding the child as he/she is without imposing upon him/her an ideal of what we think he/she should be.” Seher is discovering herself. She is learning to enjoy, to build relationships, to widen her horizon, to sing, to dance, to discover the joys of nature. Blue Mountains School has gifted our daughter back to us. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 12:45:19 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 12:45:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [acj2006] Ban on Expression In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Malik Siraj Akbar Date: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 1:58 PM Subject: [acj2006] Ban on Expression To: stunningmalik *Saturday, November 13, 2010* http://www.thenews.com.pk/13-11-2010/newspost/15365.htm *The Baloch Hal* is a progressive English language online newspaper which champions the cause of objective and investigative journalism. With a special focus on Balochistan, the Baloch Hal has become Balochistan's most quoted newspaper. Leading South Asian newspapers and radio stations like BBC, Deutsche Welle and Voice of America have quoted the newspaper and interviewed its editor on the geopolitical issues. On November 8, it was reported that the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) had suddenly decided to block the newspaper for allegedly carrying some "anti-Pakistan" material. While refuting the charges, we see this as a mere excuse by the Pakistani authorities to muzzle the independent media. Besides being the editor-in-chief of the newspaper, I am a member of Society for Professional Journalists (SPJ) and South Asian Journalists Association (SAJA). I am currently a Hubert Humphrey Fellow, a programme sponsored by the US Department of State. Throughout my professional career, I have always adhered to objective and balanced journalism. We have always provided sufficient coverage and space to the government as well as the opposition parties. Therefore, we believe the government has blocked our website in Pakistan to persuade The Baloch Hal to give up its editorial policy. In the recent past, the security establishment in Pakistan shut down a couple of other newspapers in Balochistan. Journalists were abducted and put into torture cells. Even though the government expressed displeasure over our editorials, we, in return, provided adequate space to the official spokesmen to present their versions as we fully believe in the freedom of speech. However, this time the government did not take a democratic approach to convey its grievances and blocked our newspaper by leveling baseless charges. Thus, I would like to request Pakistan's liberal and democratic forces to support us in raising voice against the uncalled for official censorship of a moderate newspaper of Balochistan. In addition, we would appeal to the government via your newspaper to reconsider its decision which, we believe, is intended to restrict the freedom of speech. *Malik Siraj Akbar Editor-in-chief * -- ******************** Hubert Humphrey Fellow Walter Cronkite School of Journalism, Arizona State University Cell: +1-4807034548 www.maliksirajakbar.com www.thebalochhal.com -- ******************** Hubert Humphrey Fellow Walter Cronkite School of Journalism, Arizona State University Cell: +1-4807034548 www.maliksirajakbar.com www.thebalochhal.com __._,_.___ From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sun Nov 14 14:41:09 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:11:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Rajatarangini and the Making of India's Past Message-ID: <875615.48253.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> when some dimwits are insistent that 'kashmir was never a part of india', one can only be amused by their ignorance and wonder at how little they know about the 'kashmir' that they are so passionate about   .......... aalok aima     http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=4351   TITLE: Translating "History": Rajatarangini and the Making of India's Past SPEAKER: Chitralekha Zutshi EVENT DATE: 07/10/2008 RUNNING TIME: 65 minutes   DESCRIPTION: Nineteenth-century European orientalists and philologists considered the Rajatarangini--a 12-century Sanskrit historical narrative from Kashmir--as the only Indian text to which the status of "history" could be accorded. Chitralekha Zutshi analyzes several late-19th and early 20th-century translations of this text by both Europeans and Indians to illustrate the mediated nature of the process of colonial and nationalist production of knowledge about India's past--indeed of the idea of history itsef--in British India.   Speaker Biography: Kluge Fellow Chitralekha Zutshi is associate professor of history at the College of William and Mary. She is the author of "Languages of Belonging: Islam, Regional Identity and the Making of Kashmir." From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 16:08:20 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 16:08:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tharoor fires at Arundhati Roy on Hay's literary war ground Message-ID: *Tharoor fires at Arundhati Roy on Hay's literary war ground* 2010-11-14 15:20:00 Link - http://sify.com/news/tharoor-fires-at-arundhati-roy-on-hay-s-literary-war-ground-news-national-klopughfhih.html Thiruvananthapuram, Nov 14 (IANS) Member of Parliament and writer Shashi Tharoor Sunday hit out at Arundhati Roy at the Hay Festival here, saying the Booker prize winner-activist has 'gone too far to the left' and 'unfortunately chooses to write about those who carry with guns'. 'Arundhati Roy has gone far too to the left like (writer-thinker) Christopher Hitchens, who has gone far too right. Arundhati Roy unfortunately chooses to write about those who carry with guns - it is sad for those at the receiving end of the guns. By writing about Gandhians with guns, she loses a large number of people. A large number of innocent Indians have been killed by the Gandians with guns,' Tharoor said in a candid one-on-one session with Peter Florence, founder-director of Hay Festival, Sunday. 'As a writer, it is her writing that gives her an audience - but the views that she expresses can be dealt with on the platform they are expressed,' Tharoor said. He hinted that her views could be treated as 'sedition'. Roy had been targetted by many for her articles in a leading magazine about Maoists, who she described as 'Gandhians', and also for speaking favorably of the Kashmiri separatists' demand of 'azadi'. Tharoor held forth on a gamut of subjects that ranged from the influence wielded by children's writer Enid Blyton in early childhood, which his mother read out to him, Rushdie's 'Satanic Verses' to the role of women in the transmission of a society's culture, importance of computers in carrying literature to a wider cross section of an audience and on his tweeting. As an early bird, who chanced upon one of the first copies of 'Satanic Verses' before the 'fatwa' rocked the world, Tharoor walked listeners down the labyrinth of time to comment on Rushdie's evocative interpretation of Islam in the book. 'I was at the Penguin office when the first box of 'Satanic Verses' had arrived and I was given one of the first copies. I read the whole of 'Satanic Verses' and I was completely astonished by the moving advocation of the father-son relationship. I read it as an admiring depiction of a fictional Islam - an amazing evocation of faith. The fact that the book had to be condemned was sad. He had done a fantastic PR job for his faith,' he said. The removal of Rohinton Mistry's book, 'Such a Long Journey' from the Mumbai University syllabus haunts Tharoor. 'I was just horrified that it happened in Mumbai - (the metropolis where he spent several growing up years). Rohinton Mistry wrote such fine books; and because the book had taken potshots - it (the Maharashtra government) had the power to intimidate. Rohinton Mistry ought to come back,' Tharoor said. 'Mumbai is a sad place', the writer-diplomat-politician said. 'A bizarre politics has been allowed to flourish against north Indians in Mumbai and the spin-offs have been a parochial xenophobia,' Tharoor said. He drew parallels with fellow non-resident Malayali writer Jaisree Misra's book, 'Rani' - a rather romantic account of the Rani (queen) of Jhansi that was banned for 'alluding to the warrior queen's romantic liaison with a British officer'. He believes that the internet could open up 'tremendous possibilities for Indian students and would keep literature alive in a different form'. 'India still produces more English honours (graduates) than any other country in the world,' he said. Tharoor is not bitter about his experience on twitter - 140-character social networking site that has caught the former minister of state for external affairs on the wrong foot several times. He still tweets with zeal - and is even back to writing his journalistic columns. 'I began to tweet when counting for polls - my votes in Thiruvananthapuram - in the last election was in progress. It was excitement that made me tweet. The twitter has an instant reach to a large audience which otherwise would not be possible. One of the good things about twitter is the instant feedback,' he said. What book would he recommend to readers as a writer. Naturally; 'The Argumentative Indian' by Amartya Sen because it 'presents delightful ideas', 'The Mahabharata' and Jawaharlal Nehru's works. 'Nehru wrote wonderful stuff,' he said. (Madhusree Chatterjee can be contacted at madhu.c at ians.in) From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 17:22:04 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:22:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Save Film and Television Institute of India Message-ID: http://www.petitiononline.com/ftii/petition.html To: I&B Ministry, India Picture this - The death of FTII Over the past fifty years, FTII has proved to be a central pillar in the evolution of Indian cinema, as we know it. With their continued contribution to mainstream as well as regional cinema, the alumnus of the Institute has ensured that FTII is recognized as a national center for film education and practice. Set up in 1961 with the aim of promoting good alternative cinema and setting new standards in film-making both aesthetically and technically, the institute has provided free space for thinking and learning to generations of would be film-makers. Over and above setting critical benchmarks for the film industry while nourishing it with highly professional and focused people, specialised in various aspects of film-making, FTII resonates in the halls of World Cinema with it�s sensitive understanding of life and film as a post-industrial art practice. . Along with the National Film Archives of India (NFAI), the Films Division and the National Film Development Corporation (NFDC), it has played a crucial role in the creation, preservation and propagation of our cross cultural heritage through the medium of Cinema. All this had been made possible by our love for socio-aesthetic experience of life translating through the Government ensuring pluralistic democracy, celebrating varied shades of our interlinked racial memories. FTII has been unique in the world amongst all film schools, providing equal / non-discriminating and ample scope for experimentation and exploration, encouraging independent tendencies that challenge the conventional and perpetuate change. FTII�s emotional quotient, and fabric have attracted students from various socio-economic and cultural backgrounds. It�s dynamism and richness are reflected in their work and concerns. Over the years, the students of this institute have contributed to and excelled in the various creative and technical aspects of Indian cinema � both as practitioners as well as scholars. The excellent collection of films at the National Film Archives has acted as a rich resource for learning. The two institutes have together been a crucible for nurturing talent. However, following a press report published by a PTI source mentioned FTII being re modeled as a Public Private Partnership (PPP) regarding the same, a draft report prepared by Hewitt Associates, Gurgaon, appointed by no less than the ministry apparently, proposes an embarrassing and ridiculous �up gradation of FTII to international standards�. The said report strongly advocates the launching of a number of exorbitantly priced, �industry oriented�, short terms courses to make the institute profit generating. The report clearly lays a blue print, which will ensure that in due course of time; the Government can withdraw all support, read responsibility, from the institute. Mahatma Gandhi had observed, the real difficulty is that people have no idea of what education truly is. We assess the value of education in the same manner as we assess the value of land or of shares in the stock exchange market. Also mounting over the past five decades, market forces have plagued the institute regularly. Almost in apology of FTII�s founding Nehruvian plan, various governments have, on more occasion than one, shown active interest to withdraw its support from the running of the institute. Crisis is not a stranger to us. This could only happen once academic interests become slaves to a numb blindness and indifference parading in the name of marketability. Cynical opportunism and shortsightedness prefer instant lotteries to lasting values. Constant hikes in the fee structure and recent trend of launching exorbitantly priced short term, �industry oriented� courses without any corresponding increase in the physical and intellectual infrastructure, are cases in point...in recent times, repeated attempts have been made to change / re-cast the independence, concerns, structure and functioning of the institute. The crumbling global-ised economy, its gambles and disasters have only pressed on harder to turn the institute into a mere profit machine. We are witness today to a complete subversion of FTII, its imminent the cultural death like most counterparts across the country. The students, with the continuous support of the alumni, filmmakers, artistes, academicians etc. have been resisting this mindset of the ministry towards FTII. We feel that if the recommendations of the DPR are accepted then FTII will cater only to a certain set of people � those who can afford it, making it exclusive and homogeneous, eliminating any of the plurality and diversity in creativity. Skills will be given precedence, and people will be �trained� for the job market rather than organic professionals looking at cinema also as an art and not just a craft. From being an art school which encourages plurality of cinema, FTII shall be relegated to being a facilitator in providing skilled labor for an assembly line production system. It will be designed and constructed as an institution along the lines of a profit making, giving no room for experimentation, or space to redefine the boundaries of film making. How will it grow? It will remain stunted. This fundamental alteration in the moral fabric of the institute will, we fear, mark the end of FTII and what it has stood It seems ironical that this is being pushed through at a time when the Deputy Chairman of the Planning commission, Mr.Montek Singh Alhuwalia himself has admitted that PPP�s have not delivered much in the Health and Education sectors. Despite this, the Government is bent on shying away from its commitment to education and is seeking to privatize most educational institutes and is withdrawing financial support from them. The crisis faced by FTII is symptomatic of the onslaught on higher education throughout the country. This is a matter of growing concern for us as students, especially because this Institute is one of its kinds in the country, which is able to draw out creative people from different parts of the country. �What is the purpose of higher education and its faculties In the light of the current assault on young people ,especially since it is education that provides the intellectual foundation and values for young people to understand ,interrogate and transform the when necessary the world in which they live? Matters of popular consciousness, public sentiment and individual and social agency are far too important as part of a larger political and educational struggle not too to be taken seriously by academics who advocate the long and difficult project of democratic reform� Prof. Henry A Giroux In �Youth Beyond The Politics of Hope� We appeal to all concerned individuals, artists, filmmakers, thinkers, academicians, students and supporters of FTII, to please back our endeavors and show their concern by signing this petition. Hoping for support in large numbers. Students of FTII Sincerely, The Undersigned From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sun Nov 14 19:47:42 2010 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:17:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <866123.5467.qm@web114712.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Lovely post Sonia, really enjoyed reading about the art around Hijab ban in France, have been following my own thread on this. This one is the most comprehensive review i have read thus far. Thank you. --- On Sat, 11/13/10, Inder Salim wrote: > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab > To: "reader-list" > Date: Saturday, November 13, 2010, 3:10 PM > http://media.photobucket.com/image/magritee/girto/magritte-rape.jpg > > http://www.artnet.com/Galleries/Artwork_Detail.asp?G=&gid=1161&which=&ViewArtistBy=&aid=661456&wid=77723&source=artist&rta=http://www.artnet.com > > above two interesting paintings by Magritte > > thanks Dear for posting the detailed report about > this artist Princess Hijab's action , a  very > profound, > and it not certainly tilted towards the Burka Pasand > ideology, there > the women are supposed not to expose even little hair on > the forehead, > no naked feet, let alone the hair upon legs and thighs, > > it is a very serious work and critics the  heavily > tilted bourgeoisie > culture prevalent there. > > hope to read some  more comments on this by others > too, which is a > world wide debate at the moment > > love > is > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:03 AM, SJabbar > wrote: > >  Cornered ­ Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti > artist > > Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked > fashion ads on the metro. > > Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? > And is she really a > > woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street > artist > > > > Angelique Chrisafis > > The Guardian,     Thursday 11 November 2010 > > > > Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, > Paris's first commuters > > are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at > the end of the platform, > > a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping > with nerves. > > > > Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. > Striking at night with > > dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils on > the half-naked > > airbrushed women ­ and men ­ of the metro's fashion > adverts. She calls it > > "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been > exhibited from New York to > > Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and > fundamentalism ­ yet her > > identity remains a mystery. > > > > In secular republican France, there can hardly be a > more potent visual gag > > than scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six > years after a law banned > > headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from > state schools, > > Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from > public spaces amid a > > fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil > liberties. The "burqa > > ban", approved last month, means that from next year > it will be illegal for > > a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not > just in government > > offices or on public transport, but in the streets, > supermarkets and private > > businesses. The government says it is a way of > protecting women's rights and > > stopping them being forced by men to cover their > faces. > > > > Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One > female teacher in favour of > > the ban was last week given a month's suspended jail > sentence for trying to > > rip a veil from the face of a 26-year-old Emirati > tourist in a shop, then > > slapping, scratching and biting her. On the other side > of the argument, two > > French women calling themselves "niqabitch" reproduced > the classic visual > > mixed metaphor of walking around central Paris in > niqabs, black hotpants, > > bare legs and high heels, posting a film of it online > in order to highlight > > the "absurdity" of the ban. > > > > But Princess Hijab got there first, and her simple, > almost childlike acts of > > sabotage with a black marker pen still manage to be > the most unsettling, > > with the widest audience abroad. Yet who is she? A > French Muslim woman in > > hijab raging at the system? That would be a rare thing > on Paris's > > male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a religious > fundamentalist making a > > point about female flesh? But she likes to leaves a > witty smattering of > > buttock cheeks and midriff on display. If she's a > leftwing feminist making a > > point about the exploitation of women, it's odd that > she always flees the > > scene of her crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like > to imagine a young > > rebel outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos > travelling to the capital to > > make her mark. But like Paris's greatest street > artist, Blek le Rat ‹ who > > inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be > a fiftysomething white > > man who voted for Sarkozy. > > > > The Princess winds through the corridors of > Havre-Caumartin sizing up the > > advertising posters lining the walls. She has agreed > to meet as she scours > > stations for targets for her next "niqab > intervention". In Spandex tights, > > shorts and a hoodie, with a long black wig totally > obscuring her face, one > > thing is clear; the twentysomething doesn't wear the > niqab that has become > > her own signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In > fact, it's more than > > likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's > a low note in her > > laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the > androgynous figure in > > black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity > behind Princess Hijab is of > > no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. > "The imagined self has > > taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic > choice." > > > > "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll > stick to "she" as the > > character is female, even if the person behind it is > perhaps not). > > > > "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits > that enveloped bodies, > > more classic art than fashion. And I'd been drawing > veiled women on > > skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I felt I > wanted to confront the > > outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No Logo and it > inspired me to risk > > intervening in public places, targeting advertising." > > > > The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the > "niqabisation" of the > > album poster of France's most famous female rapper, > Diam's, who by strange > > coincidence has now converted to Islam herself. "It's > intriguing because > > she's now wearing the veil," the Princess muses. > Intially she graffitied > > men, women and children and then would stand around to > gauge the public's > > response; now she does hit-and-runs. "I don't care > about people's reactions. > > I can see this makes people feel awkward and ill at > ease, I can understand > > that, you're on your way home after a tough day and > suddenly you're > > confronted with this." > > > > With the Paris metro protective of its advertising > spaces, her work now > > usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before > being ripped down by > > officials. She has become highly selective, doing only > four or five graffiti > > "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is carefully > photographed and has > > its own afterlife circulating online. The "niqabised" > range from Dolce & > > Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts for Virgin > bookshops. > > > > Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a > challenge," she says, quick to > > add that she believes no one way of dressing is either > good or bad. She's > > not defending the rights of any group and no one needs > her as a > > spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If veiled women > want to make a point, > > they'd do it themselves. If feminists want to do > something they're capable > > of doing it on their own." She later explains by > email: "The veil has many > > hidden meanings, it can be as profane as it is sacred, > consumerist and > > sanctimonious. From Arabic Gothicism to the condition > of man. The > > interpretations are numerous and of course it carries > great symbolism on > > race, sexuality and real and imagined geography." > > > > Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, but > the one issue that > > really shakes her ­ and perhaps reveals a little of > her true identity ­ is > > the place of minorities in France. Beyond the > arguments about whether Muslim > > women should cover their heads, Sarkozy's new ministry > of "immigration and > > national identity" and his national debate on what it > means to be French has > > stigmatised the already discriminated and ghettoised > young people of third- > > and fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has > the largest Muslim > > population in Europe, but the prevailing > anti-immigrant discourse, and what > > many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the > feelings of > > marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. > > > > Princess Hijab sees herself as part of a new "graffiti > of minorities" > > reclaiming the streets. "If it was only about the > burqa ban, my work > > wouldn't have a resonance for very long. But I think > the burqa ban has given > > a global visibility to the issue of integration in > France," she says. "We > > definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups > in boxes, always > > reducing them to the same old questions about religion > or urban violence. > > Education levels are better and we can't have the old > Manichean discourse > > any more." > > > > She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, that's a > republican principle, but > > in reality the issue of minorities in French society > hasn't really evolved > > in half a century. The outsiders in France are still > the poor, the Arabs, > > black and of course, the Roma." > > > > The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She > simply says she sees her > > work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out > of the underbelly of > > the city where "I bring inside everything that's been > excreted out." > > > > And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its > anti-consumerism and > > ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on adverts > works visually > > because the two are "dogmas that can be questioned". > She feels young women > > wearing the hijab who were once stigmatised by French > institutions are now > > being targeted for their purchasing power, the > "perfect customers" in > > France's increasingly consumerist society. > > > > Her next spree will focus on her favourite target > brand, H&M. After all, its > > ad campaigns are plastered all over the Paris metro. > She argues that the > > brand "democratised" fashion at low prices, women in > hijab often shop there, > > and inking out H&M models is the perfect act of > confrontation: "It's > > visually very striking because [the brand's] images > are ideologically very > > present in the urban landscape." > > > > So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent > everything but religion. "Am I > > religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual > interests me, but that's > > personal, I don't think it bears on my work. Religion > interests me, Muslims > > interest me and the impact they can have, > artistically, aesthetically, in > > the codes that are all around us, particularly in > fashion," she muses. > > > > And with that, the graffiti performance artist > scuttles off, kit-bag over > > her shoulder, to change out of her bizarre disguise > and into her own > > everyday fashion and wander off above ground into the > daylight. > > > > guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited > 2010 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 19:50:16 2010 From: mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com (mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:20:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab In-Reply-To: <866123.5467.qm@web114712.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <866123.5467.qm@web114712.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1398173119-1289744394-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-264194775-@b1.c3.bise7.blackberry> Yes I must thank you too, really original take.. Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel -----Original Message----- From: gowhar fazli Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:17:42 To: Inder Salim Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab Lovely post Sonia, really enjoyed reading about the art around Hijab ban in France, have been following my own thread on this. This one is the most comprehensive review i have read thus far. Thank you. --- On Sat, 11/13/10, Inder Salim wrote: > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab > To: "reader-list" > Date: Saturday, November 13, 2010, 3:10 PM > http://media.photobucket.com/image/magritee/girto/magritte-rape.jpg > > http://www.artnet.com/Galleries/Artwork_Detail.asp?G=&gid=1161&which=&ViewArtistBy=&aid=661456&wid=77723&source=artist&rta=http://www.artnet.com > > above two interesting paintings by Magritte > > thanks Dear for posting the detailed report about > this artist Princess Hijab's action , a  very > profound, > and it not certainly tilted towards the Burka Pasand > ideology, there > the women are supposed not to expose even little hair on > the forehead, > no naked feet, let alone the hair upon legs and thighs, > > it is a very serious work and critics the  heavily > tilted bourgeoisie > culture prevalent there. > > hope to read some  more comments on this by others > too, which is a > world wide debate at the moment > > love > is > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:03 AM, SJabbar > wrote: > >  Cornered ­ Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti > artist > > Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked > fashion ads on the metro. > > Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? > And is she really a > > woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street > artist > > > > Angelique Chrisafis > > The Guardian,     Thursday 11 November 2010 > > > > Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, > Paris's first commuters > > are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at > the end of the platform, > > a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping > with nerves. > > > > Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. > Striking at night with > > dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils on > the half-naked > > airbrushed women ­ and men ­ of the metro's fashion > adverts. She calls it > > "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been > exhibited from New York to > > Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and > fundamentalism ­ yet her > > identity remains a mystery. > > > > In secular republican France, there can hardly be a > more potent visual gag > > than scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six > years after a law banned > > headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from > state schools, > > Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from > public spaces amid a > > fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil > liberties. The "burqa > > ban", approved last month, means that from next year > it will be illegal for > > a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not > just in government > > offices or on public transport, but in the streets, > supermarkets and private > > businesses. The government says it is a way of > protecting women's rights and > > stopping them being forced by men to cover their > faces. > > > > Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One > female teacher in favour of > > the ban was last week given a month's suspended jail > sentence for trying to > > rip a veil from the face of a 26-year-old Emirati > tourist in a shop, then > > slapping, scratching and biting her. On the other side > of the argument, two > > French women calling themselves "niqabitch" reproduced > the classic visual > > mixed metaphor of walking around central Paris in > niqabs, black hotpants, > > bare legs and high heels, posting a film of it online > in order to highlight > > the "absurdity" of the ban. > > > > But Princess Hijab got there first, and her simple, > almost childlike acts of > > sabotage with a black marker pen still manage to be > the most unsettling, > > with the widest audience abroad. Yet who is she? A > French Muslim woman in > > hijab raging at the system? That would be a rare thing > on Paris's > > male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a religious > fundamentalist making a > > point about female flesh? But she likes to leaves a > witty smattering of > > buttock cheeks and midriff on display. If she's a > leftwing feminist making a > > point about the exploitation of women, it's odd that > she always flees the > > scene of her crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like > to imagine a young > > rebel outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos > travelling to the capital to > > make her mark. But like Paris's greatest street > artist, Blek le Rat ‹ who > > inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be > a fiftysomething white > > man who voted for Sarkozy. > > > > The Princess winds through the corridors of > Havre-Caumartin sizing up the > > advertising posters lining the walls. She has agreed > to meet as she scours > > stations for targets for her next "niqab > intervention". In Spandex tights, > > shorts and a hoodie, with a long black wig totally > obscuring her face, one > > thing is clear; the twentysomething doesn't wear the > niqab that has become > > her own signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In > fact, it's more than > > likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's > a low note in her > > laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the > androgynous figure in > > black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity > behind Princess Hijab is of > > no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. > "The imagined self has > > taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic > choice." > > > > "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll > stick to "she" as the > > character is female, even if the person behind it is > perhaps not). > > > > "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits > that enveloped bodies, > > more classic art than fashion. And I'd been drawing > veiled women on > > skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I felt I > wanted to confront the > > outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No Logo and it > inspired me to risk > > intervening in public places, targeting advertising." > > > > The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the > "niqabisation" of the > > album poster of France's most famous female rapper, > Diam's, who by strange > > coincidence has now converted to Islam herself. "It's > intriguing because > > she's now wearing the veil," the Princess muses. > Intially she graffitied > > men, women and children and then would stand around to > gauge the public's > > response; now she does hit-and-runs. "I don't care > about people's reactions. > > I can see this makes people feel awkward and ill at > ease, I can understand > > that, you're on your way home after a tough day and > suddenly you're > > confronted with this." > > > > With the Paris metro protective of its advertising > spaces, her work now > > usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before > being ripped down by > > officials. She has become highly selective, doing only > four or five graffiti > > "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is carefully > photographed and has > > its own afterlife circulating online. The "niqabised" > range from Dolce & > > Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts for Virgin > bookshops. > > > > Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a > challenge," she says, quick to > > add that she believes no one way of dressing is either > good or bad. She's > > not defending the rights of any group and no one needs > her as a > > spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If veiled women > want to make a point, > > they'd do it themselves. If feminists want to do > something they're capable > > of doing it on their own." She later explains by > email: "The veil has many > > hidden meanings, it can be as profane as it is sacred, > consumerist and > > sanctimonious. From Arabic Gothicism to the condition > of man. The > > interpretations are numerous and of course it carries > great symbolism on > > race, sexuality and real and imagined geography." > > > > Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, but > the one issue that > > really shakes her ­ and perhaps reveals a little of > her true identity ­ is > > the place of minorities in France. Beyond the > arguments about whether Muslim > > women should cover their heads, Sarkozy's new ministry > of "immigration and > > national identity" and his national debate on what it > means to be French has > > stigmatised the already discriminated and ghettoised > young people of third- > > and fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has > the largest Muslim > > population in Europe, but the prevailing > anti-immigrant discourse, and what > > many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the > feelings of > > marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. > > > > Princess Hijab sees herself as part of a new "graffiti > of minorities" > > reclaiming the streets. "If it was only about the > burqa ban, my work > > wouldn't have a resonance for very long. But I think > the burqa ban has given > > a global visibility to the issue of integration in > France," she says. "We > > definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups > in boxes, always > > reducing them to the same old questions about religion > or urban violence. > > Education levels are better and we can't have the old > Manichean discourse > > any more." > > > > She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, that's a > republican principle, but > > in reality the issue of minorities in French society > hasn't really evolved > > in half a century. The outsiders in France are still > the poor, the Arabs, > > black and of course, the Roma." > > > > The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She > simply says she sees her > > work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out > of the underbelly of > > the city where "I bring inside everything that's been > excreted out." > > > > And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its > anti-consumerism and > > ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on adverts > works visually > > because the two are "dogmas that can be questioned". > She feels young women > > wearing the hijab who were once stigmatised by French > institutions are now > > being targeted for their purchasing power, the > "perfect customers" in > > France's increasingly consumerist society. > > > > Her next spree will focus on her favourite target > brand, H&M. After all, its > > ad campaigns are plastered all over the Paris metro. > She argues that the > > brand "democratised" fashion at low prices, women in > hijab often shop there, > > and inking out H&M models is the perfect act of > confrontation: "It's > > visually very striking because [the brand's] images > are ideologically very > > present in the urban landscape." > > > > So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent > everything but religion. "Am I > > religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual > interests me, but that's > > personal, I don't think it bears on my work. Religion > interests me, Muslims > > interest me and the impact they can have, > artistically, aesthetically, in > > the codes that are all around us, particularly in > fashion," she muses. > > > > And with that, the graffiti performance artist > scuttles off, kit-bag over > > her shoulder, to change out of her bizarre disguise > and into her own > > everyday fashion and wander off above ground into the > daylight. > > > > guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited > 2010 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 20:17:40 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 20:17:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab In-Reply-To: <1398173119-1289744394-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-264194775-@b1.c3.bise7.blackberry> Message-ID: Inder, Gowhar, Mahmood, Your welcome; my pleasure. It's the sort of piece that both delights and makes me envious: wish I could have come upon her and written about it with such sharpness and lightness. Cheers! sj On 14/11/10 7:50 PM, "mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com" wrote: > Yes I must thank you too, really original take.. > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel > > -----Original Message----- > From: gowhar fazli > Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:17:42 > To: Inder Salim > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab > > Lovely post Sonia, really enjoyed reading about the art around Hijab ban in > France, have been following my own thread on this. This one is the most > comprehensive review i have read thus far. Thank you. --- On Sat, 11/13/10, > Inder Salim wrote: > From: Inder Salim > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab > To: > "reader-list" > Date: Saturday, November 13, 2010, > 3:10 PM > > http://media.photobucket.com/image/magritee/girto/magritte-rape.jpg > > > http://www.artnet.com/Galleries/Artwork_Detail.asp?G=&gid=1161&which=&ViewArti > stBy=&aid=661456&wid=77723&source=artist&rta=http://www.artnet.com > > above > two interesting paintings by Magritte > > thanks Dear for posting the > detailed report about > this artist Princess Hijab's action , a  very > > profound, > and it not certainly tilted towards the Burka Pasand > ideology, > there > the women are supposed not to expose even little hair on > the > forehead, > no naked feet, let alone the hair upon legs and thighs, > > it is > a very serious work and critics the  heavily > tilted bourgeoisie > culture > prevalent there. > > hope to read some  more comments on this by others > > too, which is a > world wide debate at the moment > > love > is > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:03 AM, SJabbar > > wrote: > >  Cornered ­ Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti > artist > > > Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked > fashion ads on the metro. > > > Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? > And is she really > a > > woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street > artist > > > > > Angelique Chrisafis > > The Guardian,     Thursday 11 November 2010 > > > > > Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, > Paris's first commuters > > > are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at > the end of the > platform, > > a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping > with > nerves. > > > > Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. > > Striking at night with > > dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils > on > the half-naked > > airbrushed women ­ and men ­ of the metro's fashion > > adverts. She calls it > > "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been > > exhibited from New York to > > Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and > > fundamentalism ­ yet her > > identity remains a mystery. > > > > In secular > republican France, there can hardly be a > more potent visual gag > > than > scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six > years after a law banned > > > headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from > state schools, > > > Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from > public spaces amid > a > > fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil > liberties. The > "burqa > > ban", approved last month, means that from next year > it will be > illegal for > > a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not > just > in government > > offices or on public transport, but in the streets, > > supermarkets and private > > businesses. The government says it is a way of > > protecting women's rights and > > stopping them being forced by men to cover > their > faces. > > > > Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One > > female teacher in favour of > > the ban was last week given a month's > suspended jail > sentence for trying to > > rip a veil from the face of a > 26-year-old Emirati > tourist in a shop, then > > slapping, scratching and > biting her. On the other side > of the argument, two > > French women calling > themselves "niqabitch" reproduced > the classic visual > > mixed metaphor of > walking around central Paris in > niqabs, black hotpants, > > bare legs and > high heels, posting a film of it online > in order to highlight > > the > "absurdity" of the ban. > > > > But Princess Hijab got there first, and her > simple, > almost childlike acts of > > sabotage with a black marker pen still > manage to be > the most unsettling, > > with the widest audience abroad. Yet > who is she? A > French Muslim woman in > > hijab raging at the system? That > would be a rare thing > on Paris's > > male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a > religious > fundamentalist making a > > point about female flesh? But she > likes to leaves a > witty smattering of > > buttock cheeks and midriff on > display. If she's a > leftwing feminist making a > > point about the > exploitation of women, it's odd that > she always flees the > > scene of her > crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like > to imagine a young > > rebel > outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos > travelling to the capital to > > make > her mark. But like Paris's greatest street > artist, Blek le Rat ‹ who > > > inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be > a fiftysomething > white > > man who voted for Sarkozy. > > > > The Princess winds through the > corridors of > Havre-Caumartin sizing up the > > advertising posters lining > the walls. She has agreed > to meet as she scours > > stations for targets for > her next "niqab > intervention". In Spandex tights, > > shorts and a hoodie, > with a long black wig totally > obscuring her face, one > > thing is clear; > the twentysomething doesn't wear the > niqab that has become > > her own > signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In > fact, it's more than > > > likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's > a low note in her > > > laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the > androgynous figure > in > > black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity > behind Princess > Hijab is of > > no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. > "The > imagined self has > > taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic > > choice." > > > > "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll > stick > to "she" as the > > character is female, even if the person behind it is > > perhaps not). > > > > "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits > > that enveloped bodies, > > more classic art than fashion. And I'd been > drawing > veiled women on > > skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I > felt I > wanted to confront the > > outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No > Logo and it > inspired me to risk > > intervening in public places, targeting > advertising." > > > > The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the > > "niqabisation" of the > > album poster of France's most famous female > rapper, > Diam's, who by strange > > coincidence has now converted to Islam > herself. "It's > intriguing because > > she's now wearing the veil," the > Princess muses. > Intially she graffitied > > men, women and children and then > would stand around to > gauge the public's > > response; now she does > hit-and-runs. "I don't care > about people's reactions. > > I can see this > makes people feel awkward and ill at > ease, I can understand > > that, you're > on your way home after a tough day and > suddenly you're > > confronted with > this." > > > > With the Paris metro protective of its advertising > spaces, > her work now > > usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before > > being ripped down by > > officials. She has become highly selective, doing > only > four or five graffiti > > "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is > carefully > photographed and has > > its own afterlife circulating online. The > "niqabised" > range from Dolce & > > Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts > for Virgin > bookshops. > > > > Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a > > challenge," she says, quick to > > add that she believes no one way of > dressing is either > good or bad. She's > > not defending the rights of any > group and no one needs > her as a > > spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If > veiled women > want to make a point, > > they'd do it themselves. If feminists > want to do > something they're capable > > of doing it on their own." She > later explains by > email: "The veil has many > > hidden meanings, it can be > as profane as it is sacred, > consumerist and > > sanctimonious. From Arabic > Gothicism to the condition > of man. The > > interpretations are numerous and > of course it carries > great symbolism on > > race, sexuality and real and > imagined geography." > > > > Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, > but > the one issue that > > really shakes her ­ and perhaps reveals a little > of > her true identity ­ is > > the place of minorities in France. Beyond > the > arguments about whether Muslim > > women should cover their heads, > Sarkozy's new ministry > of "immigration and > > national identity" and his > national debate on what it > means to be French has > > stigmatised the > already discriminated and ghettoised > young people of third- > > and > fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has > the largest Muslim > > > population in Europe, but the prevailing > anti-immigrant discourse, and > what > > many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the > feelings of > > > marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. > > > > Princess Hijab > sees herself as part of a new "graffiti > of minorities" > > reclaiming the > streets. "If it was only about the > burqa ban, my work > > wouldn't have a > resonance for very long. But I think > the burqa ban has given > > a global > visibility to the issue of integration in > France," she says. "We > > > definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups > in boxes, always > > > reducing them to the same old questions about religion > or urban violence. > > > Education levels are better and we can't have the old > Manichean > discourse > > any more." > > > > She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, > that's a > republican principle, but > > in reality the issue of minorities in > French society > hasn't really evolved > > in half a century. The outsiders in > France are still > the poor, the Arabs, > > black and of course, the Roma." > > > > > The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She > simply says she > sees her > > work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out > of the > underbelly of > > the city where "I bring inside everything that's been > > excreted out." > > > > And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its > > anti-consumerism and > > ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on > adverts > works visually > > because the two are "dogmas that can be > questioned". > She feels young women > > wearing the hijab who were once > stigmatised by French > institutions are now > > being targeted for their > purchasing power, the > "perfect customers" in > > France's increasingly > consumerist society. > > > > Her next spree will focus on her favourite > target > brand, H&M. After all, its > > ad campaigns are plastered all over > the Paris metro. > She argues that the > > brand "democratised" fashion at low > prices, women in > hijab often shop there, > > and inking out H&M models is > the perfect act of > confrontation: "It's > > visually very striking because > [the brand's] images > are ideologically very > > present in the urban > landscape." > > > > So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent > everything > but religion. "Am I > > religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual > > interests me, but that's > > personal, I don't think it bears on my work. > Religion > interests me, Muslims > > interest me and the impact they can > have, > artistically, aesthetically, in > > the codes that are all around us, > particularly in > fashion," she muses. > > > > And with that, the graffiti > performance artist > scuttles off, kit-bag over > > her shoulder, to change > out of her bizarre disguise > and into her own > > everyday fashion and wander > off above ground into the > daylight. > > > > guardian.co.uk © Guardian News > and Media Limited > 2010 > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & > Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ___________________________ > ______________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de Sun Nov 14 20:30:21 2010 From: ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Britta Ohm) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 16:00:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08359627-5838-4F49-ADF8-588CE3048275@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Thanks Inder, for the Magritte links, really interesting; hope you don't mind I forwarded one of the pics (the second) onto my facebook- site, where the Princess-article has been circulating as well. Best -- Britta Am 13.11.2010 um 10:40 schrieb Inder Salim: > http://media.photobucket.com/image/magritee/girto/magritte-rape.jpg > > http://www.artnet.com/Galleries/Artwork_Detail.asp?G=&gid=1161&which=&ViewArtistBy=&aid=661456&wid=77723&source=artist&rta=http://www.artnet.com > > above two interesting paintings by Magritte > > thanks Dear for posting the detailed report about > this artist Princess Hijab's action , a very profound, > and it not certainly tilted towards the Burka Pasand ideology, there > the women are supposed not to expose even little hair on the forehead, > no naked feet, let alone the hair upon legs and thighs, > > it is a very serious work and critics the heavily tilted bourgeoisie > culture prevalent there. > > hope to read some more comments on this by others too, which is a > world wide debate at the moment > > love > is > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:03 AM, SJabbar > wrote: >> Cornered Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti artist >> Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked fashion ads on the >> metro. >> Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? And is she >> really a >> woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street artist >> >> Angelique Chrisafis >> The Guardian, Thursday 11 November 2010 >> >> Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, Paris's first >> commuters >> are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at the end of the >> platform, >> a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping with nerves. >> >> Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. Striking at >> night with >> dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils on the half-naked >> airbrushed women and men of the metro's fashion adverts. She >> calls it >> "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been exhibited from New >> York to >> Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and fundamentalism yet her >> identity remains a mystery. >> >> In secular republican France, there can hardly be a more potent >> visual gag >> than scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six years after a >> law banned >> headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from state schools, >> Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from public >> spaces amid a >> fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil liberties. >> The "burqa >> ban", approved last month, means that from next year it will be >> illegal for >> a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not just in >> government >> offices or on public transport, but in the streets, supermarkets >> and private >> businesses. The government says it is a way of protecting women's >> rights and >> stopping them being forced by men to cover their faces. >> >> Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One female teacher in >> favour of >> the ban was last week given a month's suspended jail sentence for >> trying to >> rip a veil from the face of a 26-year-old Emirati tourist in a >> shop, then >> slapping, scratching and biting her. On the other side of the >> argument, two >> French women calling themselves "niqabitch" reproduced the classic >> visual >> mixed metaphor of walking around central Paris in niqabs, black >> hotpants, >> bare legs and high heels, posting a film of it online in order to >> highlight >> the "absurdity" of the ban. >> >> But Princess Hijab got there first, and her simple, almost >> childlike acts of >> sabotage with a black marker pen still manage to be the most >> unsettling, >> with the widest audience abroad. Yet who is she? A French Muslim >> woman in >> hijab raging at the system? That would be a rare thing on Paris's >> male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a religious fundamentalist >> making a >> point about female flesh? But she likes to leaves a witty >> smattering of >> buttock cheeks and midriff on display. If she's a leftwing feminist >> making a >> point about the exploitation of women, it's odd that she always >> flees the >> scene of her crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like to imagine a >> young >> rebel outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos travelling to the >> capital to >> make her mark. But like Paris's greatest street artist, Blek le Rat >> ‹ who >> inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be a >> fiftysomething white >> man who voted for Sarkozy. >> >> The Princess winds through the corridors of Havre-Caumartin sizing >> up the >> advertising posters lining the walls. She has agreed to meet as she >> scours >> stations for targets for her next "niqab intervention". In Spandex >> tights, >> shorts and a hoodie, with a long black wig totally obscuring her >> face, one >> thing is clear; the twentysomething doesn't wear the niqab that has >> become >> her own signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In fact, it's >> more than >> likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's a low note >> in her >> laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the androgynous >> figure in >> black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity behind Princess >> Hijab is of >> no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. "The imagined >> self has >> taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic choice." >> >> "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll stick to "she" >> as the >> character is female, even if the person behind it is perhaps not). >> >> "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits that enveloped >> bodies, >> more classic art than fashion. And I'd been drawing veiled women on >> skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I felt I wanted to >> confront the >> outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No Logo and it inspired me to >> risk >> intervening in public places, targeting advertising." >> >> The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the "niqabisation" >> of the >> album poster of France's most famous female rapper, Diam's, who by >> strange >> coincidence has now converted to Islam herself. "It's intriguing >> because >> she's now wearing the veil," the Princess muses. Intially she >> graffitied >> men, women and children and then would stand around to gauge the >> public's >> response; now she does hit-and-runs. "I don't care about people's >> reactions. >> I can see this makes people feel awkward and ill at ease, I can >> understand >> that, you're on your way home after a tough day and suddenly you're >> confronted with this." >> >> With the Paris metro protective of its advertising spaces, her work >> now >> usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before being ripped >> down by >> officials. She has become highly selective, doing only four or five >> graffiti >> "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is carefully photographed >> and has >> its own afterlife circulating online. The "niqabised" range from >> Dolce & >> Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts for Virgin bookshops. >> >> Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a challenge," she says, >> quick to >> add that she believes no one way of dressing is either good or bad. >> She's >> not defending the rights of any group and no one needs her as a >> spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If veiled women want to make a >> point, >> they'd do it themselves. If feminists want to do something they're >> capable >> of doing it on their own." She later explains by email: "The veil >> has many >> hidden meanings, it can be as profane as it is sacred, consumerist >> and >> sanctimonious. From Arabic Gothicism to the condition of man. The >> interpretations are numerous and of course it carries great >> symbolism on >> race, sexuality and real and imagined geography." >> >> Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, but the one issue >> that >> really shakes her and perhaps reveals a little of her true >> identity is >> the place of minorities in France. Beyond the arguments about >> whether Muslim >> women should cover their heads, Sarkozy's new ministry of >> "immigration and >> national identity" and his national debate on what it means to be >> French has >> stigmatised the already discriminated and ghettoised young people >> of third- >> and fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has the largest >> Muslim >> population in Europe, but the prevailing anti-immigrant discourse, >> and what >> many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the feelings of >> marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. >> >> Princess Hijab sees herself as part of a new "graffiti of minorities" >> reclaiming the streets. "If it was only about the burqa ban, my work >> wouldn't have a resonance for very long. But I think the burqa ban >> has given >> a global visibility to the issue of integration in France," she >> says. "We >> definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups in boxes, always >> reducing them to the same old questions about religion or urban >> violence. >> Education levels are better and we can't have the old Manichean >> discourse >> any more." >> >> She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, that's a republican >> principle, but >> in reality the issue of minorities in French society hasn't really >> evolved >> in half a century. The outsiders in France are still the poor, the >> Arabs, >> black and of course, the Roma." >> >> The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She simply says she >> sees her >> work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out of the >> underbelly of >> the city where "I bring inside everything that's been excreted out." >> >> And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its anti-consumerism >> and >> ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on adverts works visually >> because the two are "dogmas that can be questioned". She feels >> young women >> wearing the hijab who were once stigmatised by French institutions >> are now >> being targeted for their purchasing power, the "perfect customers" in >> France's increasingly consumerist society. >> >> Her next spree will focus on her favourite target brand, H&M. After >> all, its >> ad campaigns are plastered all over the Paris metro. She argues >> that the >> brand "democratised" fashion at low prices, women in hijab often >> shop there, >> and inking out H&M models is the perfect act of confrontation: "It's >> visually very striking because [the brand's] images are >> ideologically very >> present in the urban landscape." >> >> So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent everything but >> religion. "Am I >> religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual interests me, but >> that's >> personal, I don't think it bears on my work. Religion interests me, >> Muslims >> interest me and the impact they can have, artistically, >> aesthetically, in >> the codes that are all around us, particularly in fashion," she >> muses. >> >> And with that, the graffiti performance artist scuttles off, kit- >> bag over >> her shoulder, to change out of her bizarre disguise and into her own >> everyday fashion and wander off above ground into the daylight. >> >> guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2010 >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> --------------------------------------- Dr. Britta Ohm Institute of Social Anthropology University of Bern Laenggassstr. 49a 3012 Bern Switzerland +41-(0)31-631 8995 (main office) +41-(0)31-631 5373 (direct line) britta.ohm at anthro.unibe.ch Solmsstr. 36 10961 Berlin Germany +49-(0)30-69507155 ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 22:38:04 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 22:38:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab In-Reply-To: <08359627-5838-4F49-ADF8-588CE3048275@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <08359627-5838-4F49-ADF8-588CE3048275@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: well dear Britta, the pics are open in the net and dont belong to me, so i believe one can do anything one wants, i recommend even to do anything with my own pics if you want, that is what interests me too about the performance of Princess Hijab, i am actually keen to hear some discussiion on the action itself. it is very intense work, a socio-political but it speaks about the body in a very intriguing style. half hidden and half naked....what actually is the woman's body made up of? even a man disappears in the form, how ? love inder On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Britta Ohm wrote: > Thanks Inder, for the Magritte links, really interesting; hope you don't > mind I forwarded one of the pics (the second) onto my facebook-site, where > the Princess-article has been circulating as well. > Best -- Britta > > Am 13.11.2010 um 10:40 schrieb Inder Salim: > >> http://media.photobucket.com/image/magritee/girto/magritte-rape.jpg >> >> >> http://www.artnet.com/Galleries/Artwork_Detail.asp?G=&gid=1161&which=&ViewArtistBy=&aid=661456&wid=77723&source=artist&rta=http://www.artnet.com >> >> above two interesting paintings by Magritte >> >> thanks Dear for posting the detailed report about >> this artist Princess Hijab's action , a  very profound, >> and it not certainly tilted towards the Burka Pasand ideology, there >> the women are supposed not to expose even little hair on the forehead, >> no naked feet, let alone the hair upon legs and thighs, >> >> it is a very serious work and critics the  heavily tilted bourgeoisie >> culture prevalent there. >> >> hope to read some  more comments on this by others too, which is a >> world wide debate at the moment >> >> love >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:03 AM, SJabbar wrote: >>> >>>  Cornered  Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti artist >>> Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked fashion ads on the metro. >>> Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? And is she really >>> a >>> woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street artist >>> >>> Angelique Chrisafis >>> The Guardian,     Thursday 11 November 2010 >>> >>> Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, Paris's first >>> commuters >>> are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at the end of the >>> platform, >>> a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping with nerves. >>> >>> Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. Striking at night >>> with >>> dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils on the half-naked >>> airbrushed women  and men  of the metro's fashion adverts. She calls it >>> "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been exhibited from New York >>> to >>> Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and fundamentalism  yet her >>> identity remains a mystery. >>> >>> In secular republican France, there can hardly be a more potent visual >>> gag >>> than scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six years after a law >>> banned >>> headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from state schools, >>> Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from public spaces amid >>> a >>> fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil liberties. The >>> "burqa >>> ban", approved last month, means that from next year it will be illegal >>> for >>> a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not just in government >>> offices or on public transport, but in the streets, supermarkets and >>> private >>> businesses. The government says it is a way of protecting women's rights >>> and >>> stopping them being forced by men to cover their faces. >>> >>> Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One female teacher in favour >>> of >>> the ban was last week given a month's suspended jail sentence for trying >>> to >>> rip a veil from the face of a 26-year-old Emirati tourist in a shop, then >>> slapping, scratching and biting her. On the other side of the argument, >>> two >>> French women calling themselves "niqabitch" reproduced the classic visual >>> mixed metaphor of walking around central Paris in niqabs, black hotpants, >>> bare legs and high heels, posting a film of it online in order to >>> highlight >>> the "absurdity" of the ban. >>> >>> But Princess Hijab got there first, and her simple, almost childlike acts >>> of >>> sabotage with a black marker pen still manage to be the most unsettling, >>> with the widest audience abroad. Yet who is she? A French Muslim woman in >>> hijab raging at the system? That would be a rare thing on Paris's >>> male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a religious fundamentalist making a >>> point about female flesh? But she likes to leaves a witty smattering of >>> buttock cheeks and midriff on display. If she's a leftwing feminist >>> making a >>> point about the exploitation of women, it's odd that she always flees the >>> scene of her crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like to imagine a young >>> rebel outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos travelling to the capital to >>> make her mark. But like Paris's greatest street artist, Blek le Rat ‹ who >>> inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be a fiftysomething >>> white >>> man who voted for Sarkozy. >>> >>> The Princess winds through the corridors of Havre-Caumartin sizing up the >>> advertising posters lining the walls. She has agreed to meet as she >>> scours >>> stations for targets for her next "niqab intervention". In Spandex >>> tights, >>> shorts and a hoodie, with a long black wig totally obscuring her face, >>> one >>> thing is clear; the twentysomething doesn't wear the niqab that has >>> become >>> her own signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In fact, it's more >>> than >>> likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's a low note in her >>> laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the androgynous figure >>> in >>> black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity behind Princess Hijab is >>> of >>> no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. "The imagined self >>> has >>> taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic choice." >>> >>> "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll stick to "she" as >>> the >>> character is female, even if the person behind it is perhaps not). >>> >>> "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits that enveloped bodies, >>> more classic art than fashion. And I'd been drawing veiled women on >>> skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I felt I wanted to confront >>> the >>> outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No Logo and it inspired me to risk >>> intervening in public places, targeting advertising." >>> >>> The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the "niqabisation" of the >>> album poster of France's most famous female rapper, Diam's, who by >>> strange >>> coincidence has now converted to Islam herself. "It's intriguing because >>> she's now wearing the veil," the Princess muses. Intially she graffitied >>> men, women and children and then would stand around to gauge the public's >>> response; now she does hit-and-runs. "I don't care about people's >>> reactions. >>> I can see this makes people feel awkward and ill at ease, I can >>> understand >>> that, you're on your way home after a tough day and suddenly you're >>> confronted with this." >>> >>> With the Paris metro protective of its advertising spaces, her work now >>> usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before being ripped down >>> by >>> officials. She has become highly selective, doing only four or five >>> graffiti >>> "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is carefully photographed and >>> has >>> its own afterlife circulating online. The "niqabised" range from Dolce & >>> Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts for Virgin bookshops. >>> >>> Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a challenge," she says, quick >>> to >>> add that she believes no one way of dressing is either good or bad. She's >>> not defending the rights of any group and no one needs her as a >>> spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If veiled women want to make a >>> point, >>> they'd do it themselves. If feminists want to do something they're >>> capable >>> of doing it on their own." She later explains by email: "The veil has >>> many >>> hidden meanings, it can be as profane as it is sacred, consumerist and >>> sanctimonious. From Arabic Gothicism to the condition of man. The >>> interpretations are numerous and of course it carries great symbolism on >>> race, sexuality and real and imagined geography." >>> >>> Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, but the one issue that >>> really shakes her  and perhaps reveals a little of her true identity  is >>> the place of minorities in France. Beyond the arguments about whether >>> Muslim >>> women should cover their heads, Sarkozy's new ministry of "immigration >>> and >>> national identity" and his national debate on what it means to be French >>> has >>> stigmatised the already discriminated and ghettoised young people of >>> third- >>> and fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has the largest Muslim >>> population in Europe, but the prevailing anti-immigrant discourse, and >>> what >>> many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the feelings of >>> marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. >>> >>> Princess Hijab sees herself as part of a new "graffiti of minorities" >>> reclaiming the streets. "If it was only about the burqa ban, my work >>> wouldn't have a resonance for very long. But I think the burqa ban has >>> given >>> a global visibility to the issue of integration in France," she says. "We >>> definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups in boxes, always >>> reducing them to the same old questions about religion or urban violence. >>> Education levels are better and we can't have the old Manichean discourse >>> any more." >>> >>> She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, that's a republican principle, >>> but >>> in reality the issue of minorities in French society hasn't really >>> evolved >>> in half a century. The outsiders in France are still the poor, the Arabs, >>> black and of course, the Roma." >>> >>> The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She simply says she sees >>> her >>> work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out of the underbelly >>> of >>> the city where "I bring inside everything that's been excreted out." >>> >>> And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its anti-consumerism and >>> ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on adverts works visually >>> because the two are "dogmas that can be questioned". She feels young >>> women >>> wearing the hijab who were once stigmatised by French institutions are >>> now >>> being targeted for their purchasing power, the "perfect customers" in >>> France's increasingly consumerist society. >>> >>> Her next spree will focus on her favourite target brand, H&M. After all, >>> its >>> ad campaigns are plastered all over the Paris metro. She argues that the >>> brand "democratised" fashion at low prices, women in hijab often shop >>> there, >>> and inking out H&M models is the perfect act of confrontation: "It's >>> visually very striking because [the brand's] images are ideologically >>> very >>> present in the urban landscape." >>> >>> So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent everything but religion. >>> "Am I >>> religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual interests me, but that's >>> personal, I don't think it bears on my work. Religion interests me, >>> Muslims >>> interest me and the impact they can have, artistically, aesthetically, in >>> the codes that are all around us, particularly in fashion," she muses. >>> >>> And with that, the graffiti performance artist scuttles off, kit-bag over >>> her shoulder, to change out of her bizarre disguise and into her own >>> everyday fashion and wander off above ground into the daylight. >>> >>> guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2010 >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > --------------------------------------- > Dr. Britta Ohm > > Institute of Social Anthropology > University of Bern > Laenggassstr. 49a > 3012 Bern > Switzerland > +41-(0)31-631 8995 (main office) > +41-(0)31-631 5373 (direct line) > britta.ohm at anthro.unibe.ch > > > Solmsstr. 36 > 10961 Berlin > Germany > +49-(0)30-69507155 > ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de > > > > > > > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 22:42:59 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 22:42:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tharoor fires at Arundhati Roy on Hay's literary war ground In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: has Tharoor gone too far by never speaking about the mountain of corruption in the Politics, particularly congress party, I saw him bowing like a begger in front of Sonai Gandhi. shame on him. he has no pride, just concerned after his seat in the party., and now his wife's money has gone into his head, that means he is dead love is On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > *Tharoor fires at Arundhati Roy on Hay's literary war ground* >  2010-11-14 15:20:00 > Link - > http://sify.com/news/tharoor-fires-at-arundhati-roy-on-hay-s-literary-war-ground-news-national-klopughfhih.html > > Thiruvananthapuram, Nov 14 (IANS) Member of Parliament and writer Shashi > Tharoor Sunday hit out at Arundhati Roy at the Hay Festival here, saying the > Booker prize winner-activist has 'gone too far to the left' and > 'unfortunately chooses to write about those who carry with guns'. > > 'Arundhati Roy has gone far too to the left like (writer-thinker) > Christopher Hitchens, who has gone far too right. Arundhati Roy > unfortunately chooses to write about those who carry with guns - it is sad > for those at the receiving end of the guns. By writing about Gandhians with > guns, she loses a large number of people. A large number of innocent Indians > have been killed by the Gandians with guns,' Tharoor said in a candid > one-on-one session with Peter Florence, founder-director of Hay Festival, > Sunday. > >  'As a writer, it is her writing that gives her an audience - but the views > that she expresses can be dealt with on the platform they are expressed,' > Tharoor said. > >  He hinted that her views could be treated as 'sedition'. > >  Roy had been targetted by many for her articles in a leading magazine about > Maoists, who she described as 'Gandhians', and also for speaking favorably > of the Kashmiri separatists' demand of 'azadi'. > >  Tharoor held forth on a gamut of subjects that ranged from the influence > wielded by children's writer Enid Blyton in early childhood, which his > mother read out to him, Rushdie's 'Satanic Verses' to the role of women in > the transmission of a society's culture, importance of computers in carrying > literature to a wider cross section of an audience and on his tweeting. > >  As an early bird, who chanced upon one of the first copies of 'Satanic > Verses' before the 'fatwa' rocked the world, Tharoor walked listeners down > the labyrinth of time to comment on Rushdie's evocative interpretation of > Islam in the book. > >  'I was at the Penguin office when the first box of 'Satanic Verses' had > arrived and I was given one of the first copies. I read the whole of > 'Satanic Verses' and I was completely astonished by the moving advocation of > the father-son relationship. I read it as an admiring depiction of a > fictional Islam - an amazing evocation of faith. The fact that the book had > to be condemned was sad. He had done a fantastic PR job for his faith,' he > said. > >  The removal of Rohinton Mistry's book, 'Such a Long Journey' from the > Mumbai University syllabus haunts Tharoor. > >  'I was just horrified that it happened in Mumbai - (the metropolis where he > spent several growing up years). Rohinton Mistry wrote such fine books; and > because the book had taken potshots - it (the Maharashtra government) had > the power to intimidate. Rohinton Mistry ought to come back,' Tharoor said. > >  'Mumbai is a sad place', the writer-diplomat-politician said. > >  'A bizarre politics has been allowed to flourish against north Indians in > Mumbai and the spin-offs have been a parochial xenophobia,' Tharoor said. > >  He drew parallels with fellow non-resident Malayali writer Jaisree Misra's > book, 'Rani' - a rather romantic account of the Rani (queen) of Jhansi that > was banned for 'alluding to the warrior queen's romantic liaison with a > British officer'. > >  He believes that the internet could open up 'tremendous possibilities for > Indian students and would keep literature alive in a different form'. > >  'India still produces more English honours (graduates) than any other > country in the world,' he said. > >  Tharoor is not bitter about his experience on twitter - 140-character > social networking site that has caught the former minister of state for > external affairs on the wrong foot several times. > >  He still tweets with zeal - and is even back to writing his journalistic > columns. 'I began to tweet when counting for polls - my votes in > Thiruvananthapuram - in the last election was in progress. It was excitement > that made me tweet. The twitter has an instant reach to a large audience > which otherwise would not be possible. One of the good things about twitter > is the instant feedback,' he said. > >  What book would he recommend to readers as a writer. Naturally; 'The > Argumentative Indian' by Amartya Sen because it 'presents delightful ideas', > 'The Mahabharata' and Jawaharlal Nehru's works. > >  'Nehru wrote wonderful stuff,' he said. > >  (Madhusree Chatterjee can be contacted at madhu.c at ians.in) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From adityarajbaul at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 00:10:52 2010 From: adityarajbaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Baul) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 00:10:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Special Case Message-ID: Dangerous Pedestal There is a general consensus that the army is not only special, but that it is important that it continue to be seen as special by the public at large UMAIR AHMED MUHAJIR http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?267853 If I had a plot of land for every instance – on the news, over the last few days – that someone has said the military is India’s best/most honest/least corrupt institution, and that the ongoing Adarsh Housing Society scam is shocking given that the army (the army!) is involved; I’d be one of the country’s largest landowners. Whether we think corruption in the army is an aberration or an awful portent of where India is headed, it seems there is a general consensus that the army is not only special, but that it is important that it continue to be seen as special by the public at large. Anything short of that, and we risk damaging that most precious of things: The One Institution India Continues To Respect. To which my response is: so what? Let me explain: obviously, rampant corruption of the sort that blights Indian public life is serious, not only because of the loot involved but because of the toll it takes on the credibility of Indian institutions in the eyes of the public. But there’s no reason why we should be especially shocked if the army is involved. If anything, the reverse is true: in a democracy, it is the credibility of the system’s democratic institutions that is paramount. We should be appalled by the specter of the country’s elected representatives feeding at the trough – rather than accepting that as par for the course, and reserving our surprise for when other institutions (such as the military, the judiciary, or the bureaucracy) are found wanting. Our reaction implicitly testifies to a problem that has bedeviled India since independence, and that represents a hold-over from the days of the Raj: a deep suspicion of democracy. Sometimes this suspicion expresses itself as a preference for technocrats and experts (planning commissions in Nehru’s day; election commissions and special advisors from private industry in ours); sometimes as a blind celebration of the judiciary (and an amnesia that it is not the rule of law that girds democracy, but democracy that lends legitimacy to the rule of law); and sometimes as an exaltation of the military. Accordingly, the “we” of the bourgeoisie is only scandalized when one of these sorts of institutions is found wanting, because it is these sorts of institutions that the bourgeoisie not only trusts, but entrusts India to; the more insulated an institution from one’s fellow citizens, the greater the importance we attach to its integrity. Not to put too fine a point to it, but a cult of the military damages democracies, neatly summing up many of the bourgeoisie’s anxieties about democracy: impatience with its slowness, its sheer messiness; concern that our individual rights are at the mercy of fellow citizens we do not trust; and disgust at the spectacle of opportunism that we feel sullies politics. Each of these concerns can be lulled by the spectacle of military discipline, at once seemingly decisive and ordered, and flattering to our self-image (as professionals, or as simply good at our work) by its sheer competence. Taken too far, the flirtation becomes a fetish, a lesson India does not need to venture too far afield to learn: in its own geo-political neighborhood, the histories of Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Myanmar have been blighted by the conviction of various armies – but, crucially, not only their conviction – that the military is the guarantor of the nation-state, of national identity even. To take one example, in the case of Pakistan the military is only partially to blame for this state of affairs: its way was paved by those in the country’s intelligentsia and urban middle classes who long for the order and efficiency only the boot can provide, who by far too readily into the myth that the military is what holds everything together, that the military is what citizens must thank day and night for keeping the borders secure. (I use the present tense deliberately: a mere two years after the country’s last bout with military rule ended, I have heard far too many complaints from urban Pakistanis that begin with an indictment of the current government, and end in a desire for the return of military rule.) In India itself, the fondness with which more than one Delhiwaala I’ve met remembers Sanjay Gandhi should give us pause. He made the trains run on time during the Emergency (which, incidentally, was lifted not so much because of the country’s abiding faith in democracy but because of the government’s mistaken belief that it would win the ensuing elections; who knows how much longer the Emergency might have continued had the government accurately gauged the national mood?); but, mercifully, very many of the voters who delivered a drubbing to his party in the 1977 elections knew that there are more important things to worry about. The problem is hardly unique to the sub-continent, and even more longstanding democratic traditions risk being compromised by military cults. In the United States, for instance, the quality of public discourse has been gravely compromised by socio-political conventions that mean any critic of the military has to answer charges that (s)he has let the troops down, or is stabbing them in the back in the midst of war. The result is that one can attack politicians on military policy (and risk being tarred as anti-military), or perhaps defer criticism until the war in question is over (at which point it is too late to do anything, not to mention that the critic will be told to move on and not dwell on the past). The wider narrative goes unchallenged: crimes by individuals in the military will be punished (and the US has a much stronger record on this front than most), but only on condition that they are deemed no more than crimes by individuals. Systemic issues – for instance, about the culture of an institution that allows certain abuses to routinely occur; about the competence of an institution that routinely kills civilians in accidents – are all but impossible to get on the radar. The problem is not only never fixed, but is even exacerbated by the fact that so many in the public invest the military with the very credibility that they deny the political branches of government. In short, while no one is barred from raising these issues, the question implicitly becomes, why would you want to? What sort of person would want to undermine the credibility of one of the last remaining institutions that works? Politicians learn the lesson too: not only can you never be seen to question the military, but it is best to re-cast a number of complicated foreign (and in the case of India, even internal) political issues as essentially military/security questions, and hence removed from the realm of ordinary politics. In India, in many ways the cult of the military is nowhere near as developed as in the US, but the American example holds lessons for citizens of many countries, beginning with the need to realize that democracies aren’t only compromised by coups. The most significant systemic issue might well be the way in which the military is used to impress the public into service, to secure political legitimacy. All of which means that the Adarsh scandal – and let’s not forget, it is by no means the only one, given the Sukna land scam as well as the alleged involvement of some military personnel in Abhinav Bharat’s terrorist activities; not to mention frequent allegations of human rights abuses, the scandal as to which is that there is no scandal – represents an opportunity for more than just hand-wringing. It represents an opportunity to re-orient our expectations from various institutions, to bring them in line with our professed commitment to wide political participation. In democracies, pedestals are dangerous. From chintan.backups at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 10:31:33 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 10:31:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The man who writes your students' papers tells his story Message-ID: Excerpts from http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/125329/ The Shadow Scholar The man who writes your students' papers tells his story By Ed Dante *Editor's note: Ed Dante is a pseudonym for a writer who lives on the East Coast. Through a literary agent, he approached *The Chronicle* wanting to tell the story of how he makes a living writing papers for a custom-essay company and to describe the extent of student cheating he has observed. In the course of editing his article, *The Chronicle* reviewed correspondence Dante had with clients and some of the papers he had been paid to write. In the article published here, some details of the assignment he describes have been altered to protect the identity of the student.* ** I've written toward a master's degree in cognitive psychology, a Ph.D. in sociology, and a handful of postgraduate credits in international diplomacy. I've worked on bachelor's degrees in hospitality, business administration, and accounting. I've written for courses in history, cinema, labor relations, pharmacology, theology, sports management, maritime security, airline services, sustainability, municipal budgeting, marketing, philosophy, ethics, Eastern religion, postmodern architecture, anthropology, literature, and public administration. I've attended three dozen online universities. I've completed 12 graduate theses of 50 pages or more. All for someone else. You've never heard of me, but there's a good chance that you've read some of my work. I'm a hired gun, a doctor of everything, an academic mercenary. My customers are your students. I promise you that. Somebody in your classroom uses a service that you can't detect, that you can't defend against, that you may not even know exists. I work at an online company that generates tens of thousands of dollars a month by creating original essays based on specific instructions provided by cheating students. I've worked there full time since 2004. On any day of the academic year, I am working on upward of 20 assignments. >From my experience, three demographic groups seek out my services: the English-as-second-language student; the hopelessly deficient student; and the lazy rich kid. For the last, colleges are a perfect launching ground—they are built to reward the rich and to forgive them their laziness. Let's be honest: The successful among us are not always the best and the brightest, and certainly not the most ethical. My favorite customers are those with an unlimited supply of money and no shortage of instructions on how they would like to see their work executed. While the deficient student will generally not know how to ask for what he wants until he doesn't get it, the lazy rich student will know exactly what he wants. He is poised for a life of paying others and telling them what to do. Indeed, he is acquiring all the skills he needs to stay on top. As for the first two types of students—the ESL and the hopelessly deficient—colleges are utterly failing them. Students who come to American universities from other countries find that their efforts to learn a new language are confounded not only by cultural difficulties but also by the pressures of grading. The focus on evaluation rather than education means that those who haven't mastered English must do so quickly or suffer the consequences. My service provides a particularly quick way to "master" English. And those who are hopelessly deficient—a euphemism, I admit—struggle with communication in general. The subject matter, the grade level, the college, the course—these things are irrelevant to me. Prices are determined per page and are based on how long I have to complete the assignment. As long as it doesn't require me to do any math or video-documented animal husbandry, I will write anything. I have completed countless online courses. Students provide me with passwords and user names so I can access key documents and online exams. In some instances, I have even contributed to weekly online discussions with other students in the class. I, who have no name, no opinions, and no style, have written so many papers at this point, including legal briefs, military-strategy assessments, poems, lab reports, and, yes, even papers on academic integrity, that it's hard to determine which course of study is most infested with cheating. But I'd say education is the worst. I've written papers for students in elementary-education programs, special-education majors, and ESL-training courses. I've written lesson plans for aspiring high-school teachers, and I've synthesized reports from notes that customers have taken during classroom observations. I've written essays for those studying to become school administrators, and I've completed theses for those on course to become principals. In the enormous conspiracy that is student cheating, the frontline intelligence community is infiltrated by double agents. (Future educators of America, I know who you are.) I haven't been to a library once since I started doing this job. Amazon is quite generous about free samples. If I can find a single page from a particular text, I can cobble that into a report, deducing what I don't know from customer reviews and publisher blurbs. Google Scholar is a great source for material, providing the abstract of nearly any journal article. And of course, there's Wikipedia, which is often my first stop when dealing with unfamiliar subjects. Naturally one must verify such material elsewhere, but I've taken hundreds of crash courses this way. After I've gathered my sources, I pull out usable quotes, cite them, and distribute them among the sections of the assignment. Over the years, I've refined ways of stretching papers. I can write a four-word sentence in 40 words. Just give me one phrase of quotable text, and I'll produce two pages of ponderous explanation. I can say in 10 pages what most normal people could say in a paragraph. How good is the product created by this process? That depends—on the day, my mood, how many other assignments I am working on. It also depends on the customer, his or her expectations, and the degree to which the completed work exceeds his or her abilities. I don't ever edit my assignments. That way I get fewer customer requests to "dumb it down." So some of my work is great. Some of it is not so great. Most of my clients do not have the wherewithal to tell the difference, which probably means that in most cases the work is better than what the student would have produced on his or her own. I've actually had customers thank me for being clever enough to insert typos. "Nice touch," they'll say. So how does someone become a custom-paper writer? The story of how I got into this job may be instructive. It is mostly about the tremendous disappointment that awaited me in college. My distaste for the early hours and regimented nature of high school was tempered by the promise of the educational community ahead, with its free exchange of ideas and access to great minds. How dispiriting to find out that college was just another place where grades were grubbed, competition overshadowed personal growth, and the threat of failure was used to encourage learning. Although my university experience did not live up to its vaunted reputation, it did lead me to where I am today. I was raised in an upper-middle-class family, but I went to college in a poor neighborhood. I fit in really well: After paying my tuition, I didn't have a cent to my name. I had nothing but a meal plan and my roommate's computer. But I was determined to write for a living, and, moreover, to spend these extremely expensive years learning how to do so. When I completed my first novel, in the summer between sophomore and junior years, I contacted the English department about creating an independent study around editing and publishing it. I was received like a mental patient. I was told, "There's nothing like that here." I was told that I could go back to my classes, sit in my lectures, and fill out Scantron tests until I graduated. I didn't much care for my classes, though. I slept late and spent the afternoons working on my own material. Then a funny thing happened. Here I was, begging anybody in authority to take my work seriously. But my classmates did. They saw my abilities and my abundance of free time. They saw a value that the university did not. It turned out that my lazy, Xanax-snorting, Miller-swilling classmates were thrilled to pay me to write their papers. And I was thrilled to take their money. Imagine you are crumbling under the weight of university-issued parking tickets and self-doubt when a frat boy offers you cash to write about Plato. Doing that job was a no-brainer. Word of my services spread quickly, especially through the fraternities. Soon I was receiving calls from strangers who wanted to commission my work. I was a writer! From kaksanjay at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 10:51:28 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 10:51:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rajatarangini and the Making of India's Past In-Reply-To: <875615.48253.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <875615.48253.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Forgive me for asking, dear reader-list.... But having read this Announcement several times over, and attempted to unpack it with my admittedly dim wits, I'm still not able to understand how this text proves that 'kashmir was a part of india', or disproves the assertion that 'kashmir was never a part of India'. best Sanjay Kak On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > when some dimwits are insistent that 'kashmir was never a part of india', one can only be amused by their ignorance and wonder at how little they know about the 'kashmir' that they are so passionate about > > .......... aalok aima > > > http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=4351 > > TITLE: Translating "History": Rajatarangini and the Making of India's Past > > SPEAKER: Chitralekha Zutshi > EVENT DATE: 07/10/2008 > RUNNING TIME: 65 minutes > > DESCRIPTION: > Nineteenth-century European orientalists and philologists considered the Rajatarangini--a 12-century Sanskrit historical narrative from Kashmir--as the only Indian text to which the status of "history" could be accorded. Chitralekha Zutshi analyzes several late-19th and early 20th-century translations of this text by both Europeans and Indians to illustrate the mediated nature of the process of colonial and nationalist production of knowledge about India's past--indeed of the idea of history itsef--in British India. > > Speaker Biography: Kluge Fellow Chitralekha Zutshi is associate professor of history at the College of William and Mary. She is the author of "Languages of Belonging: Islam, Regional Identity and the Making of Kashmir." > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 11:32:47 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:32:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Special Case In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main47.asp?filename=Ne201110Coverstory.asp Excerpt: "There’s a compelling reason why the defence establishment — which includes politicians, bureaucrats and military bureaucrats — needs to stop the tide of corruption. By 2015, India would have spent Rs. 2.21 lakh crore on what consultancy firm KPMG terms “one of the largest procurement cycles in the world”. Leading global defence manufacturers are flocking to Delhi for a slice of our defence spending. Indian firms too stand to gain contracts worth Rs. 44,299 crore. The scope for kickbacks and grease money are obvious. Three months ago, Patrick Choy, chief marketing officer of Singapore-based defence firm ST Kinetics, blurted out what is known as the emerging truth for foreign defence firms operating in India: “It’s come to a point where I wonder about ST Kinetics being driven out of the Indian market by frustration. We cannot simply continue with something that appears like a black hole.” His firm, reportedly blacklisted during Kapoor’s tenure, was in competition with BAE Systems for the Rs. 13,289 crore 155-mm gun contract." On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Aditya Raj Baul wrote: > Dangerous Pedestal > > There is a general consensus that the army is not only special, but > that it is important that it continue to be seen as special by the > public at large > > UMAIR AHMED MUHAJIR > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?267853 > > If I had a plot of land for every instance – on the news, over the > last few days – that someone has said the military is India’s > best/most honest/least corrupt institution, and that the ongoing > Adarsh Housing Society scam is shocking given that the army (the > army!) is involved; I’d be one of the country’s largest landowners. > Whether we think corruption in the army is an aberration or an awful > portent of where India is headed, it seems there is a general > consensus that the army is not only special, but that it is important > that it continue to be seen as special by the public at large. > Anything short of that, and we risk damaging that most precious of > things: The One Institution India Continues To Respect. > > To which my response is: so what? > > Let me explain: obviously, rampant corruption of the sort that blights > Indian public life is serious, not only because of the loot involved > but because of the toll it takes on the credibility of Indian > institutions in the eyes of the public. But there’s no reason why we > should be especially shocked if the army is involved. If anything, > the reverse is true: in a democracy, it is the credibility of the > system’s democratic institutions that is paramount. We should be > appalled by the specter of the country’s elected representatives > feeding at the trough – rather than accepting that as par for the > course, and reserving our surprise for when other institutions (such > as the military, the judiciary, or the bureaucracy) are found wanting. > Our reaction implicitly testifies to a problem that has bedeviled > India since independence, and that represents a hold-over from the > days of the Raj: a deep suspicion of democracy. Sometimes this > suspicion expresses itself as a preference for technocrats and experts > (planning commissions in Nehru’s day; election commissions and special > advisors from private industry in ours); sometimes as a blind > celebration of the judiciary (and an amnesia that it is not the rule > of law that girds democracy, but democracy that lends legitimacy to > the rule of law); and sometimes as an exaltation of the military. > Accordingly, the “we” of the bourgeoisie is only scandalized when one > of these sorts of institutions is found wanting, because it is these > sorts of institutions that the bourgeoisie not only trusts, but > entrusts India to; the more insulated an institution from one’s fellow > citizens, the greater the importance we attach to its integrity. > > Not to put too fine a point to it, but a cult of the military damages > democracies, neatly summing up many of the bourgeoisie’s anxieties > about democracy: impatience with its slowness, its sheer messiness; > concern that our individual rights are at the mercy of fellow citizens > we do not trust; and disgust at the spectacle of opportunism that we > feel sullies politics. Each of these concerns can be lulled by the > spectacle of military discipline, at once seemingly decisive and > ordered, and flattering to our self-image (as professionals, or as > simply good at our work) by its sheer competence. Taken too far, the > flirtation becomes a fetish, a lesson India does not need to venture > too far afield to learn: in its own geo-political neighborhood, the > histories of Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Myanmar have been blighted by > the conviction of various armies – but, crucially, not only their > conviction – that the military is the guarantor of the nation-state, > of national identity even. To take one example, in the case of > Pakistan the military is only partially to blame for this state of > affairs: its way was paved by those in the country’s intelligentsia > and urban middle classes who long for the order and efficiency only > the boot can provide, who by far too readily into the myth that the > military is what holds everything together, that the military is what > citizens must thank day and night for keeping the borders secure. (I > use the present tense deliberately: a mere two years after the > country’s last bout with military rule ended, I have heard far too > many complaints from urban Pakistanis that begin with an indictment of > the current government, and end in a desire for the return of military > rule.) In India itself, the fondness with which more than one > Delhiwaala I’ve met remembers Sanjay Gandhi should give us pause. He > made the trains run on time during the Emergency (which, incidentally, > was lifted not so much because of the country’s abiding faith in > democracy but because of the government’s mistaken belief that it > would win the ensuing elections; who knows how much longer the > Emergency might have continued had the government accurately gauged > the national mood?); but, mercifully, very many of the voters who > delivered a drubbing to his party in the 1977 elections knew that > there are more important things to worry about. > > The problem is hardly unique to the sub-continent, and even more > longstanding democratic traditions risk being compromised by military > cults. In the United States, for instance, the quality of public > discourse has been gravely compromised by socio-political conventions > that mean any critic of the military has to answer charges that (s)he > has let the troops down, or is stabbing them in the back in the midst > of war. The result is that one can attack politicians on military > policy (and risk being tarred as anti-military), or perhaps defer > criticism until the war in question is over (at which point it is too > late to do anything, not to mention that the critic will be told to > move on and not dwell on the past). The wider narrative goes > unchallenged: crimes by individuals in the military will be punished > (and the US has a much stronger record on this front than most), but > only on condition that they are deemed no more than crimes by > individuals. Systemic issues – for instance, about the culture of an > institution that allows certain abuses to routinely occur; about the > competence of an institution that routinely kills civilians in > accidents – are all but impossible to get on the radar. The problem > is not only never fixed, but is even exacerbated by the fact that so > many in the public invest the military with the very credibility that > they deny the political branches of government. In short, while no > one is barred from raising these issues, the question implicitly > becomes, why would you want to? What sort of person would want to > undermine the credibility of one of the last remaining institutions > that works? Politicians learn the lesson too: not only can you never > be seen to question the military, but it is best to re-cast a number > of complicated foreign (and in the case of India, even internal) > political issues as essentially military/security questions, and hence > removed from the realm of ordinary politics. In India, in many ways > the cult of the military is nowhere near as developed as in the US, > but the American example holds lessons for citizens of many countries, > beginning with the need to realize that democracies aren’t only > compromised by coups. The most significant systemic issue might well > be the way in which the military is used to impress the public into > service, to secure political legitimacy. > > All of which means that the Adarsh scandal – and let’s not forget, it > is by no means the only one, given the Sukna land scam as well as the > alleged involvement of some military personnel in Abhinav Bharat’s > terrorist activities; not to mention frequent allegations of human > rights abuses, the scandal as to which is that there is no scandal – > represents an opportunity for more than just hand-wringing. It > represents an opportunity to re-orient our expectations from various > institutions, to bring them in line with our professed commitment to > wide political participation. In democracies, pedestals are > dangerous. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 11:37:44 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:37:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Princess Hijab In-Reply-To: References: <08359627-5838-4F49-ADF8-588CE3048275@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: A documentary on Princess Hijab: *http://www.babelgum.com/5004778/princess-hijab.html* On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > well dear Britta, > the pics are open in the net and dont belong to me, so i believe one > can do anything one wants, i recommend even to do anything with my own > pics if you want, > that is what interests me too > > about the performance of Princess Hijab, i am actually keen to hear > some discussiion on the action itself. > it is very intense work, a socio-political but it speaks about the > body in a very intriguing style. half hidden and half naked....what > actually is the woman's body made up of? even a man disappears in the > form, how ? > > love > inder > > On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Britta Ohm > wrote: > > Thanks Inder, for the Magritte links, really interesting; hope you don't > > mind I forwarded one of the pics (the second) onto my facebook-site, > where > > the Princess-article has been circulating as well. > > Best -- Britta > > > > Am 13.11.2010 um 10:40 schrieb Inder Salim: > > > >> http://media.photobucket.com/image/magritee/girto/magritte-rape.jpg > >> > >> > >> > http://www.artnet.com/Galleries/Artwork_Detail.asp?G=&gid=1161&which=&ViewArtistBy=&aid=661456&wid=77723&source=artist&rta=http://www.artnet.com > >> > >> above two interesting paintings by Magritte > >> > >> thanks Dear for posting the detailed report about > >> this artist Princess Hijab's action , a very profound, > >> and it not certainly tilted towards the Burka Pasand ideology, there > >> the women are supposed not to expose even little hair on the forehead, > >> no naked feet, let alone the hair upon legs and thighs, > >> > >> it is a very serious work and critics the heavily tilted bourgeoisie > >> culture prevalent there. > >> > >> hope to read some more comments on this by others too, which is a > >> world wide debate at the moment > >> > >> love > >> is > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:03 AM, SJabbar > wrote: > >>> > >>> Cornered Princess Hijab, Paris's elusive graffiti artist > >>> Princess Hijab daubs Muslim veils on half-naked fashion ads on the > metro. > >>> Why does she do it? Is she a religious fundamentalist? And is she > really > >>> a > >>> woman? Angelique Chrisafis meets the elusive street artist > >>> > >>> Angelique Chrisafis > >>> The Guardian, Thursday 11 November 2010 > >>> > >>> Just after dawn at Havre- Caumartin metro station, Paris's first > >>> commuters > >>> are stepping on and off half-empty trains. Then, at the end of the > >>> platform, > >>> a figure in black appears, head bowed and feet tapping with nerves. > >>> > >>> Princess Hijab is Paris's most elusive street artist. Striking at night > >>> with > >>> dripping black paint she slaps black Muslim veils on the half-naked > >>> airbrushed women and men of the metro's fashion adverts. She calls it > >>> "hijabisation". Her guerrilla niqab art has been exhibited from New > York > >>> to > >>> Vienna, sparking debates about feminism and fundamentalism yet her > >>> identity remains a mystery. > >>> > >>> In secular republican France, there can hardly be a more potent visual > >>> gag > >>> than scrawling graffitied veils on fashion ads. Six years after a law > >>> banned > >>> headscarves and all conspicuous religious symbols from state schools, > >>> Nicolas Sarkozy's government has banned the niqab from public spaces > amid > >>> a > >>> fierce row over women's rights, islamophobia and civil liberties. The > >>> "burqa > >>> ban", approved last month, means that from next year it will be illegal > >>> for > >>> a woman to wear full-face Muslim veils in public, not just in > government > >>> offices or on public transport, but in the streets, supermarkets and > >>> private > >>> businesses. The government says it is a way of protecting women's > rights > >>> and > >>> stopping them being forced by men to cover their faces. > >>> > >>> Already this has prompted extreme reactions. One female teacher in > favour > >>> of > >>> the ban was last week given a month's suspended jail sentence for > trying > >>> to > >>> rip a veil from the face of a 26-year-old Emirati tourist in a shop, > then > >>> slapping, scratching and biting her. On the other side of the argument, > >>> two > >>> French women calling themselves "niqabitch" reproduced the classic > visual > >>> mixed metaphor of walking around central Paris in niqabs, black > hotpants, > >>> bare legs and high heels, posting a film of it online in order to > >>> highlight > >>> the "absurdity" of the ban. > >>> > >>> But Princess Hijab got there first, and her simple, almost childlike > acts > >>> of > >>> sabotage with a black marker pen still manage to be the most > unsettling, > >>> with the widest audience abroad. Yet who is she? A French Muslim woman > in > >>> hijab raging at the system? That would be a rare thing on Paris's > >>> male-dominated graffiti scene. Is she a religious fundamentalist making > a > >>> point about female flesh? But she likes to leaves a witty smattering of > >>> buttock cheeks and midriff on display. If she's a leftwing feminist > >>> making a > >>> point about the exploitation of women, it's odd that she always flees > the > >>> scene of her crimes. Is she even Muslim? Her fans like to imagine a > young > >>> rebel outsider from Paris's suburban ghettos travelling to the capital > to > >>> make her mark. But like Paris's greatest street artist, Blek le Rat ‹ > who > >>> inspired Britain's Bansky ‹ she could turn out to be a fiftysomething > >>> white > >>> man who voted for Sarkozy. > >>> > >>> The Princess winds through the corridors of Havre-Caumartin sizing up > the > >>> advertising posters lining the walls. She has agreed to meet as she > >>> scours > >>> stations for targets for her next "niqab intervention". In Spandex > >>> tights, > >>> shorts and a hoodie, with a long black wig totally obscuring her face, > >>> one > >>> thing is clear; the twentysomething doesn't wear the niqab that has > >>> become > >>> her own signature. She won't say if she's a Muslim. In fact, it's more > >>> than > >>> likely that Princess Hijab isn't even a woman. There's a low note in > her > >>> laughter, a slight broadness to her shoulders. But the androgynous > figure > >>> in > >>> black won't confirm a gender. "The real identity behind Princess Hijab > is > >>> of > >>> no importance," says the husky voice behind the wig. "The imagined self > >>> has > >>> taken the foreground, and anyway it's an artistic choice." > >>> > >>> "I started doing this when I was 17," she says (I'll stick to "she" as > >>> the > >>> character is female, even if the person behind it is perhaps not). > >>> > >>> "I'd been working on veils, making Spandex outfits that enveloped > bodies, > >>> more classic art than fashion. And I'd been drawing veiled women on > >>> skate-boards and other graphic pieces, when I felt I wanted to confront > >>> the > >>> outside world. I'd read Naomi Klein's No Logo and it inspired me to > risk > >>> intervening in public places, targeting advertising." > >>> > >>> The Princess's first graffiti veil was in 2006, the "niqabisation" of > the > >>> album poster of France's most famous female rapper, Diam's, who by > >>> strange > >>> coincidence has now converted to Islam herself. "It's intriguing > because > >>> she's now wearing the veil," the Princess muses. Intially she > graffitied > >>> men, women and children and then would stand around to gauge the > public's > >>> response; now she does hit-and-runs. "I don't care about people's > >>> reactions. > >>> I can see this makes people feel awkward and ill at ease, I can > >>> understand > >>> that, you're on your way home after a tough day and suddenly you're > >>> confronted with this." > >>> > >>> With the Paris metro protective of its advertising spaces, her work now > >>> usually stays up for only 45 minutes to an hour before being ripped > down > >>> by > >>> officials. She has become highly selective, doing only four or five > >>> graffiti > >>> "interventions" in Paris a year. But each is carefully photographed and > >>> has > >>> its own afterlife circulating online. The "niqabised" range from Dolce > & > >>> Gabbana men's underwear to risque adverts for Virgin bookshops. > >>> > >>> Why does she do it? "I use veiled women as a challenge," she says, > quick > >>> to > >>> add that she believes no one way of dressing is either good or bad. > She's > >>> not defending the rights of any group and no one needs her as a > >>> spokesperson. "That's paternalistic. If veiled women want to make a > >>> point, > >>> they'd do it themselves. If feminists want to do something they're > >>> capable > >>> of doing it on their own." She later explains by email: "The veil has > >>> many > >>> hidden meanings, it can be as profane as it is sacred, consumerist and > >>> sanctimonious. From Arabic Gothicism to the condition of man. The > >>> interpretations are numerous and of course it carries great symbolism > on > >>> race, sexuality and real and imagined geography." > >>> > >>> Princess Hijab is deliberately cool and detached, but the one issue > that > >>> really shakes her and perhaps reveals a little of her true identity > is > >>> the place of minorities in France. Beyond the arguments about whether > >>> Muslim > >>> women should cover their heads, Sarkozy's new ministry of "immigration > >>> and > >>> national identity" and his national debate on what it means to be > French > >>> has > >>> stigmatised the already discriminated and ghettoised young people of > >>> third- > >>> and fourth-generation immigrant descent. France has the largest Muslim > >>> population in Europe, but the prevailing anti-immigrant discourse, and > >>> what > >>> many view as a pointless burqa ban, has increased the feelings of > >>> marginalisation felt by young Muslims and minorities. > >>> > >>> Princess Hijab sees herself as part of a new "graffiti of minorities" > >>> reclaiming the streets. "If it was only about the burqa ban, my work > >>> wouldn't have a resonance for very long. But I think the burqa ban has > >>> given > >>> a global visibility to the issue of integration in France," she says. > "We > >>> definitely can't keep closing off and putting groups in boxes, always > >>> reducing them to the same old questions about religion or urban > violence. > >>> Education levels are better and we can't have the old Manichean > discourse > >>> any more." > >>> > >>> She adds: "Liberty, equality, fraternity, that's a republican > principle, > >>> but > >>> in reality the issue of minorities in French society hasn't really > >>> evolved > >>> in half a century. The outsiders in France are still the poor, the > Arabs, > >>> black and of course, the Roma." > >>> > >>> The Princess won't say what her own roots are. She simply says she sees > >>> her > >>> work as a kind of "cartography of crime" a mapping out of the > underbelly > >>> of > >>> the city where "I bring inside everything that's been excreted out." > >>> > >>> And yet her graffiti is particularly French in its anti-consumerism and > >>> ad-busting stance. For her, painting a veil on adverts works visually > >>> because the two are "dogmas that can be questioned". She feels young > >>> women > >>> wearing the hijab who were once stigmatised by French institutions are > >>> now > >>> being targeted for their purchasing power, the "perfect customers" in > >>> France's increasingly consumerist society. > >>> > >>> Her next spree will focus on her favourite target brand, H&M. After > all, > >>> its > >>> ad campaigns are plastered all over the Paris metro. She argues that > the > >>> brand "democratised" fashion at low prices, women in hijab often shop > >>> there, > >>> and inking out H&M models is the perfect act of confrontation: "It's > >>> visually very striking because [the brand's] images are ideologically > >>> very > >>> present in the urban landscape." > >>> > >>> So these blacked-out niqabs seem to represent everything but religion. > >>> "Am I > >>> religious?" she asks, hesitating. "The spiritual interests me, but > that's > >>> personal, I don't think it bears on my work. Religion interests me, > >>> Muslims > >>> interest me and the impact they can have, artistically, aesthetically, > in > >>> the codes that are all around us, particularly in fashion," she muses. > >>> > >>> And with that, the graffiti performance artist scuttles off, kit-bag > over > >>> her shoulder, to change out of her bizarre disguise and into her own > >>> everyday fashion and wander off above ground into the daylight. > >>> > >>> guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2010 > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > --------------------------------------- > > Dr. Britta Ohm > > > > Institute of Social Anthropology > > University of Bern > > Laenggassstr. 49a > > 3012 Bern > > Switzerland > > +41-(0)31-631 8995 (main office) > > +41-(0)31-631 5373 (direct line) > > britta.ohm at anthro.unibe.ch > > > > > > Solmsstr. 36 > > 10961 Berlin > > Germany > > +49-(0)30-69507155 > > ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 11:48:44 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:48:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rajatarangini and the Making of India's Past In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wits and dimwits notwit(h)standing I think the question one ought to ask, like many have done before, what IS India: one nation or a composite of many nations? A geographical entity upon which maps of various dimensions have been inscribed? From the Gandharan, Ashokan, Kushan, Turkic, Mughal and British Empires what glue made it stick and what forces broke it up? The Rajatarangini throws light on some of these questions, written as it was centuries before the idea of nations became so contested. It also reveals that Kashmir was not as isolated as it became in later centuries, that it was connected by religion, language, history to regions that we designate as part of India today-- The great hero king Lalitaditya's mother was a Bania woman from Rohtak, for instance... As interesting as this is I should like to argue that membership into a modern democratic nation cannot depend on perceptions of shared history alone but ought to be a voluntary act based on political needs. One need not get fixated on Kashmir. Take a look at Dravidian nationalism and the separatist movement in the 1950s and '60s. How did it go from seeing itself as distinct and separate from the rest of India to, in 40-50 years being an 'integral' part of India? On 15/11/10 10:51 AM, "Sanjay Kak" wrote: > Forgive me for asking, dear reader-list.... But having read this Announcement > several times over, and attempted to unpack it with my admittedly dim wits, > I'm still not able to understand how this text proves that 'kashmir was a part > of india', or disproves the assertion that 'kashmir was never a part of > India'. best Sanjay Kak On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Aalok Aima > wrote: > when some dimwits are insistent that 'kashmir > was never a part of india', one can only be amused by their ignorance and > wonder at how little they know about the 'kashmir' that they are so passionate > about > > .......... aalok aima > > > > http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=4351 > > TITLE: > Translating "History": Rajatarangini and the Making of India's Past > > > SPEAKER: Chitralekha Zutshi > EVENT DATE: 07/10/2008 > RUNNING TIME: 65 > minutes > > DESCRIPTION: > Nineteenth-century European orientalists and > philologists considered the Rajatarangini--a 12-century Sanskrit historical > narrative from Kashmir--as the only Indian text to which the status of > "history" could be accorded. Chitralekha Zutshi analyzes several late-19th and > early 20th-century translations of this text by both Europeans and Indians to > illustrate the mediated nature of the process of colonial and nationalist > production of knowledge about India's past--indeed of the idea of history > itsef--in British India. > > Speaker Biography: Kluge Fellow Chitralekha > Zutshi is associate professor of history at the College of William and Mary. > She is the author of "Languages of Belonging: Islam, Regional Identity and the > Making of Kashmir." > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & > Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > ______________________________ > ___________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From poojashali at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 12:44:47 2010 From: poojashali at gmail.com (pooja shali) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:44:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jammu And Kashmir: Revenge of the lambs In-Reply-To: <261788.11940.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <261788.11940.qm@web120216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This was an interesting piece. From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Mon Nov 15 14:08:09 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 00:38:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Special Case In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <167626.3437.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> a r baul   an excellent perspective thanks for posting it here   it is always a pleasure to read umair ahmed muhajir   ......... aalok aima --- On Sun, 11/14/10, Aditya Raj Baul wrote: From: Aditya Raj Baul Subject: [Reader-list] The Special Case To: "reader-list" Date: Sunday, November 14, 2010, 10:40 PM Dangerous Pedestal There is a general consensus that the army is not only special, but that it is important that it continue to be seen as special by the public at large UMAIR AHMED MUHAJIR http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?267853 If I had a plot of land for every instance – on the news, over the last few days – that someone has said the military is India’s best/most honest/least corrupt institution, and that the ongoing Adarsh Housing Society scam is shocking given that the army (the army!) is involved; I’d be one of the country’s largest landowners. Whether we think corruption in the army is an aberration or an awful portent of where India is headed, it seems there is a general consensus that the army is not only special, but that it is important that it continue to be seen as special by the public at large. Anything short of that, and we risk damaging that most precious of things: The One Institution India Continues To Respect. To which my response is: so what? Let me explain: obviously, rampant corruption of the sort that blights Indian public life is serious, not only because of the loot involved but because of the toll it takes on the credibility of Indian institutions in the eyes of the public.  But there’s no reason why we should be especially shocked if the army is involved.  If anything, the reverse is true: in a democracy, it is the credibility of the system’s democratic institutions that is paramount.  We should be appalled by the specter of the country’s elected representatives feeding at the trough – rather than accepting that as par for the course, and reserving our surprise for when other institutions (such as the military, the judiciary, or the bureaucracy) are found wanting. Our reaction implicitly testifies to a problem that has bedeviled India since independence, and that represents a hold-over from the days of the Raj: a deep suspicion of democracy.  Sometimes this suspicion expresses itself as a preference for technocrats and experts (planning commissions in Nehru’s day; election commissions and special advisors from private industry in ours); sometimes as a blind celebration of the judiciary (and an amnesia that it is not the rule of law that girds democracy, but democracy that lends legitimacy to the rule of law); and sometimes as an exaltation of the military. Accordingly, the “we” of the bourgeoisie is only scandalized when one of these sorts of institutions is found wanting, because it is these sorts of institutions that the bourgeoisie not only trusts, but entrusts India to; the more insulated an institution from one’s fellow citizens, the greater the importance we attach to its integrity. Not to put too fine a point to it, but a cult of the military damages democracies, neatly summing up many of the bourgeoisie’s anxieties about democracy: impatience with its slowness, its sheer messiness; concern that our individual rights are at the mercy of fellow citizens we do not trust; and disgust at the spectacle of opportunism that we feel sullies politics.  Each of these concerns can be lulled by the spectacle of military discipline, at once seemingly decisive and ordered, and flattering to our self-image (as professionals, or as simply good at our work) by its sheer competence.  Taken too far, the flirtation becomes a fetish, a lesson India does not need to venture too far afield to learn: in its own geo-political neighborhood, the histories of Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Myanmar have been blighted by the conviction of various armies – but, crucially, not only their conviction – that the military is the guarantor of the nation-state, of national identity even.  To take one example, in the case of Pakistan the military is only partially to blame for this state of affairs: its way was paved by those in the country’s intelligentsia and urban middle classes who long for the order and efficiency only the boot can provide, who by far too readily into the myth that the military is what holds everything together, that the military is what citizens must thank day and night for keeping the borders secure.  (I use the present tense deliberately: a mere two years after the country’s last bout with military rule ended, I have heard far too many complaints from urban Pakistanis that begin with an indictment of the current government, and end in a desire for the return of military rule.)  In India itself, the fondness with which more than one Delhiwaala I’ve met remembers Sanjay Gandhi should give us pause.  He made the trains run on time during the Emergency (which, incidentally, was lifted not so much because of the country’s abiding faith in democracy but because of the government’s mistaken belief that it would win the ensuing elections; who knows how much longer the Emergency might have continued had the government accurately gauged the national mood?); but, mercifully, very many of the voters who delivered a drubbing to his party in the 1977 elections knew that there are more important things to worry about. The problem is hardly unique to the sub-continent, and even more longstanding democratic traditions risk being compromised by military cults.  In the United States, for instance, the quality of public discourse has been gravely compromised by socio-political conventions that mean any critic of the military has to answer charges that (s)he has let the troops down, or is stabbing them in the back in the midst of war.  The result is that one can attack politicians on military policy (and risk being tarred as anti-military), or perhaps defer criticism until the war in question is over (at which point it is too late to do anything, not to mention that the critic will be told to move on and not dwell on the past).  The wider narrative goes unchallenged: crimes by individuals in the military will be punished (and the US has a much stronger record on this front than most), but only on condition that they are deemed no more than crimes by individuals.  Systemic issues – for instance, about the culture of an institution that allows certain abuses to routinely occur; about the competence of an institution that routinely kills civilians in accidents – are all but impossible to get on the radar.  The problem is not only never fixed, but is even exacerbated by the fact that so many in the public invest the military with the very credibility that they deny the political branches of government.  In short, while no one is barred from raising these issues, the question implicitly becomes, why would you want to?  What sort of person would want to undermine the credibility of one of the last remaining institutions that works?  Politicians learn the lesson too: not only can you never be seen to question the military, but it is best to re-cast a number of complicated foreign (and in the case of India, even internal) political issues as essentially military/security questions, and hence removed from the realm of ordinary politics.  In India, in many ways the cult of the military is nowhere near as developed as in the US, but the American example holds lessons for citizens of many countries, beginning with the need to realize that democracies aren’t only compromised by coups.  The most significant systemic issue might well be the way in which the military is used to impress the public into service, to secure political legitimacy. All of which means that the Adarsh scandal – and let’s not forget, it is by no means the only one, given the Sukna land scam as well as the alleged involvement of some military personnel in Abhinav Bharat’s terrorist activities; not to mention frequent allegations of human rights abuses, the scandal as to which is that there is no scandal – represents an opportunity for more than just hand-wringing.  It represents an opportunity to re-orient our expectations from various institutions, to bring them in line with our professed commitment to wide political participation.  In democracies, pedestals are dangerous. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Nov 15 15:50:54 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (JavaMuseum) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:20:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_47_on_NewMediaFest=27?= =?iso-8859-1?q?2010?= Message-ID: <20101115112054.5C98F0A2.4828BF2F@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest'2010 ----------------------------------------- program- week 47 --> 15-21 November 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1145 ----------------------------------------- 1. ----------------------------------------- Feature of the Week 47 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1142 JavaMuseum's netart journal "Celebrate!" - proudly presents five new netart pieces around "virtual travelling" ~ --> Gaza Airport by Ayman Alazraq (Palestine) --> Julia by Doron Golan (Israel/USA) --> Afterbirth Spectacular by Jessica Westbrook/Adam Trowbridge (USA) --> Network of Thoughts by Michiel Koelink (NL) --> Artplanktos by Dida Papalexandrou (Greece) ----------------------------------------- 2. ----------------------------------------- VideoChannel Cologne - proudly presents --> Feature of the Month November 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1129 Family Affairs 2 - Father featuring videos by following artists reflecting the role and position of "father" Antonio Alvarado (Spain) - Zack Bent (USA) - Yin-Ling Chen (Tainwan) Virginia Colwell (USA) - Lindsay Foster (USA) - Constantin Hartenstein (Germany) Shahar Marcus (Israel) - Antti Savela (Sweden) - Chris Stockbridge (UK) Marc Thele (Germany) - Anders Weberg (Sweden) - Zellner Bros. (USA) ----------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org --------------------------------------- From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Nov 16 10:26:02 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 10:26:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom for first terror act victim Message-ID: Freedom for first terror act victim MUZAFFAR RAINA Srinagar, Nov. 14: The Prevention of Terrorism Act (Pota) died six years ago but the first person to be charged under it had to wait till yesterday to get his life back. On Saturday, a Srinagar court dismissed the nine-year-old Pota case against Ghulam Mohammad Dar that had led to the carpet weaver spending 18 months in jail and his family being temporarily evicted from their home. The resident of Srinagar’s old city was arrested on November 22, 2001, just one day after the NDA government promulgated the Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance, which was later turned into an act. The UPA government repealed the law in September 2004 but the case against Dar continued. “I thank God that I am a free man now. The decision has come ahead of Id and I could not have expected better,” Dar said today. The state police had arrested him for his alleged links with the militant outfit Al Bader. But the judge noted that “on November 21, 2001, when the ordinance came into effect, Al Bader had not been declared a banned outfit”. Dar’s arrest under the controversial law had led to an uproar in the Valley, especially after the authorities, using the act’s provisions, sealed his home. The family, including his two sons and aged mother, moved briefly to a makeshift shelter on the roadside. The protests, however, forced the government to hand the house back to the family nine days later. Dar, though, had to wait 18 months for bail. “I always feared re-arrest. It has been a long-drawn battle for me,” he said. Top From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Nov 16 10:29:18 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 10:29:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sangh Parivar hand seen in Jhalawar unrest Message-ID: Sangh Parivar hand seen in Jhalawar unrest Special Correspondent JAIPUR: The Rajasthan Government's “indifferent attitude” to Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad gaining ground in the tribal-dominated Jhalawar district came in for severe criticism by the Rajasthan Sadbhav Manch here on Monday. The activists alleged that tribals were being instigated against the Muslim minority as part of a well-planned strategy. A delegation of the Sadbhav Manch visited Manoharthana town in Jhalawar district recently to assess the situation after the communal violence in which two Bheel tribals were killed in police firing and Muslim houses in the nearby Semlihaat and Maheshpura villages were destroyed. Sadbhav Manch convenor Sawai Singh said at a press conference here that the Sangh Parivar had succeeded in communalising the atmosphere in the region and the administration was under a “tremendous pressure” not to take action even in the first information reports lodged by the victims identifying the accused. Mr. Singh said the police force could not enter the two villages for 40 days after the violence that took place between September 19 and 21. A police outpost was burnt and the policemen were chased away and the houses, huts, shops, farmhouses, grain stores and crops of the minority community were looted and burnt. Tribals also allegedly attacked two local journalists who went to Semlihaat to cover the incidents. Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Bajrang Dal activists later forced closure of markets for 12 days in protest against the death of Bheels and demanding the arrest of an affluent businessman, Ishaq Qureshi. Even after the arrest of Mr. Qureshi on the questionable charges of attempt to murder, the delegation found the situation far from normal. The administration has offered a paltry assistance of Rs.3,000 each to the owners of damaged houses, while no survey has been undertaken. On its way from Jhalawar to Manoharthana town, the delegation saw large hoardings at the entrance of at least 10 villages declaring: “Welcome to the model village in Hindu Rashtra.” Mr. Singh regretted that the administration was silent even on this blatant challenge to the secular Constitution of the country. Jamat-e-Islami Hind State president Mohammed Salim, who was in the delegation, said the Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad was going ahead with its plan to demoralise and economically shatter Muslims. http://hindu.com/2010/11/16/stories/2010111660680700.htm From appu.es at gmail.com Tue Nov 16 20:07:55 2010 From: appu.es at gmail.com (Appu Esthose Suresh) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 20:07:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The man who felled a king by Chandan Mitra Message-ID: ** How Raja of all scam was uprooted by a reporter. This is a report appeared in Pioneer today, a very unusual one, an editor writing about the reporter- Gopikrishnan. A must read! *The man who felled a king* *Chandan Mitra | New Delhi* *The Pioneer felicitates J Gopikrishnan, who unearthed the spectrum scam* For a long time, I did not even know that J Gopikrishnan was a stringer based in Thiruvananthapuram working for *The Pioneer*’s now-aborted Kochi edition. So when he came to Delhi pleading for a job at the headquarters once the Kochi edition shut in 2007, I was rather sceptical. I told Bureau chief Navin Upadhyay that although I had noticed a few bylined stories by him, Gopi had no exposure to Delhi and, therefore, was unlikely to have any worthwhile contacts here. Navin, however, persuaded me to try him out for three months. In fact, the letter of appointment specifically mentioned this along with a “stipend” that was truly laughable by Delhi standards. Gopi did not break any earth-shaking stories during the trial period. But his sincerity, diligence, dogged pursuit of stories and pleasing personality made up for that. He was given a proper appointment letter after three months although his salary remained rather low. My opinion began to change after friends in Left parties began to mention him to me in Parliament’s Central Hall, pointing to the depth of his knowledge of the telecom sector. Officially, he was on the Left beat so I still did not attach too much significance to that. Then the cascade began. Starting mid-2008, he broke one story after another on scandalous ramifications of the 2G spectrum allotment. The issue was complex and most people don’t understand its intricacies even now. But Gopi had cracked the scandal. And as one exclusive report followed another, information flowed to him like a magnet attracting pins. Navin worked hard on these reports, filling up missing links, polishing them and quoting relevant documents. The 2G scam was Gopi’s passion and he scoured the Net, apart from visiting officers in their offices and homes, gathering material. He had friends across the political “spectrum”; Gopi, despite his Kerala origins, was ideology-neutral. I don’t know how much pressure he came under and from which quarters. But I faced more pressure over these reports than anything else in my 27 years of journalism, of which nearly 20 have been spent in senior editorial positions. I am proud to have withstood them. But even more proud that I gave a dynamic young man from Kerala a break in the national media, a break he used to do the nation a sterling service. J Gopikrishnan has made history and *The Pioneer* basks in his achievement. *The Pioneer* Investigative Team asked Gopi to unravel his journey from a fledgling political reporter to giant killer. Excerpts from a chat: *Q: *How did you come across the 2G scam story? *A: *We sensed a scam when Swan and Unitech started offloading shares at whopping prices of `4,500 crore and `6,200 crore in September 2008. Bureau chief Navin Upadhyay asked me to dig for information and luckily we got a great whistleblower, who knew the ins and outs of the Telecom Ministry. He once told me the PM was totally unhappy with Raja and had summoned him to ask what was going on. Slowly, the whistleblower narrated the entire range of corruption in the Ministry. Those days, Minister Raja was making false claims that he had followed his predecessors. This young Government officer told me about the parking of funds in front companies by the Minister and his associates in the name of relatives. He told me who the actual beneficiaries of the scam were, including corporates, politicians and lobbyists. This officer asked me to talk to my Editor and get his consent and only then would he reveal further. The Editor told me to go ahead and the whistleblower became a goldmine of hidden information for *The Pioneer*. Days and nights of discussion and checking the authenticity of facts happened in his office and at many crowded places in the city, once it became important to avoid detection. *Q: *Which was the first story you did and what was the reaction? *A: *After finding out the gamut of front companies dealing in real estate, we decided to expose Raja’s ill-gotten wealth. Chandan Mitra and Navin Upadhyay saw all documents and decided to go ahead with the series. The first story appeared on December 11, 2008, on Raja’s main real estate front company, Green House Promoters. The details of other companies and hidden irregularities in the spectrum scam were published over the following days. *Q: *Did you come under pressure to stop the campaign? How did you ward them off? *A: *I met Raja after the first report, as directed by the Editor. He alleged that I was being funded by his rivals in the party and even told me some names. He was visibly shaken asking me how I got the details of his personal assets. He requested me to avoid writing. My reply was that I had been deputed by the Editor only to take his version, nothing else. Raja agreed to speak, but repeatedly requested me to stop writing further on this. Similarly, many corporate groups were after me with the same plea. I must say none threatened or behaved badly. Those days, Raja was planning to conduct the 3G auction at cheap base rates without Cabinet’s approval. Many agents from the corporate sector requested us to stop our series of exposes, saying our reports would force the Government to refer the 3G auction to an EGoM. We told them that was exactly what we wanted. But I must say some friends with contacts in high places warned me I may be targeted. It was a hidden warning, which I ridiculed. It would not be fair to reveal what kind of offers were made by different entities to avoid the 3G issue going to an EGoM. But finally, the Cabinet referred it to an EGoM, which put Raja out of the picture and the nation netted `1.06 lakh crore. *Q: *Did any political or corporate entity offer you financial inducements to stop writing on this? *A: *Yes, they did. The figures were mind-boggling. Corporate lobbyists and Raja’s people even asked me to stop informing the Editor and end the series abruptly. I told them even the meeting with them was in the knowledge of the Editor and the Bureau chief. Some shameless fellows tried to access Raja, claiming friendship with me. Some were acting as double agents. One top lobbyist was actually a double agent. That person was leaking information against Raja while providing information to him too. Pressure on the whistleblower was enormous by now, but he stood by us fearlessly. There were several politicians who enlightened and encouraged me. Some bureaucrats and police officials also guided our investigations. *Q: *Do you think the matter will end with Raja’s resignation or will more heads roll? *A: *I personally feel the court cases filed by Subramanian Swamy and Prashant Bhushan would come to logical conclusions, leading to the cancellation of all licences which were found illegal by CAG. The court may direct auctions to be held like the old petrol pump scam of Satish Sharma. I don’t expect anything from the Government in this matter. Some persons, including Raja, may face the wrath of the law. I don’t think anything harsh will happen to corporates from the Government’s side. After the CAG report and PAC findings, if the Government has the willpower, it can -- by executive order -- cancel all licences and order auction, which will definitely fetch around `2-3 lakh crore. *Q: *How do you think the Government can make the spectrum policy transparent and above board? *A: *Spectrum management should be handed over to ISRO, but no politician would like that for obvious reasons. In India, spectrum is not yet audited. No one knows how much spectrum is available. This was purposefully done for making easy money. First the Government should ask an organisation like ISRO to audit spectrum availability in all departments. Only then will transparency come. *Q: *After Telecom what? Do you have more targets in mind? *A: *No idea. I felt totally exhausted upon learning of Raja’s resignation. I was expecting good news on Sunday, when sources told me Pranab Mukherjee had firmly asked Karunanidhi at 11.30 am to remove Raja. This was doubly confirmed when they later said Raja was forced to sign the papers around 5.30 pm. Anyway, no idea what’s for me next…life will go on. I was covering Health and Left (parties) those days. By a stroke of luck, Raja came on our radar… *Virtual pat on back* Within minutes of A Raja submitting his letter of resignation to the Prime Minister late Sunday night, India’s twitterati erupted into joyous celebrations. Pouring ridicule and vitriol on the scam-tainted Minister, twitterers across India heaped praise on *The Pioneer* and tweeted congratulatory messages to J Gopikrishnan by the hundreds. Several of the tweets were RT’ed, or re-tweeted, amplifying the overwhelming outpouring of goodwill for the paper. Had the news not broken on a Sunday, that too late in the night, when people are usually offline, both *The Pioneer* and Gopi would have trended globally, which they almost did, such was the enthusiastic response. The congratulatory tweets continued to pour in through Sunday night and Monday from Indians around the world. Tellingly, many of the tweets pointed out that *The Pioneer* persisted with a story that no ‘big’ paper would touch or 24x7 news channels would report. Along with Raja, Delhi’s self-appointed ‘MSM’, or mainstream media, was the clear loser! From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 11:51:48 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:51:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=8COn_Kashmir=2C_It=B9s_Essential_To?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Listen_Without_An_Agenda=B9?= Message-ID: ŒOn Kashmir, It¹s Essential To Listen Without An Agenda¹ 'There is need to have conversations with the government and other sections in India' ANURADHA RAMAN ³Psychologically speaking, the Kashmiris are already outside India and will remain there for at least two generations. The random killing, rapes, torture and the other innovative atrocities have brutalised their society and turned them into a traumatised lot. If you think this is too harsh, read between the lines of psychotherapist Shobna Sonpar¹s report on Kashmir,² wrote political social-psychologist Ashis Nandy in a recent column in Outlook. Violent Activism by Delhi-based psychologist Shobna Sonpar is a clinical study of men who walked the violent talk to achieve their goals. Shobna¹s depiction of what goes on in the Valley makes Kashmir our own Abu Ghraib where torture and humiliation of young men labelled as militants is nothing out of the ordinary. Nandy says Shobna¹s book should be a compulsory read for policymakers in Delhi, ³used to reversing their telescopes so that things look further and further away². It¹s a clinical gaze on traumatised people, he says, coming as it does when fewer researchers are undertaking such studies. Following up on these high recommendations, Anuradha Raman spoke to Shobna Sonpar about her study. Excerpts from the interview: The Centre¹s Kashmir interlocutors (Dileep Padgaonkar, Radha Kumar and M.M. Ansari) have submitted their report. You must be aware of what they were tasked to do. What would be your suggestions to them? What are the various factors one needs to keep in mind before drawing up a roadmap for dialogue? Interlocuting has to do with conversation and I imagine that the most important task is to facilitate a change in the cliched discourses on all sides so that a genuine conversation emerges. It is only through genuine conversation that difficult issues can be talked about without self-righteousness, raised hackles and sulks. Listening without a personal agenda and without having to please some constituency is essential, and hence the choice of a non-political team seems wise. In my practice, I find myself urging warring couples to do what it takes in their heads and in their emotional reactivity to maintain a stance of respectful curiosity about the other instead of blame and judgement. It is in the process of practising this that the ability to read one¹s own subjective state without defensiveness and that of others without assuming malign intent, a truly reflective space, becomes possible. Psychologists call this capacity mentalisation. Also, there is the need to have conversations with the government and other sections in India, which perhaps poses a more formidable challenge. Has anything changed in the Valley since Violent Activism was published three years ago? If so, what has changed on the ground? Has the violence been scaled up? Since the Amarnath land row, there has been palpable anger across the Valley, particularly among the youth. What is different now compared to some years ago is that the sense of victimisation, the hyper-sensitivity to threats to Muslim identity, the outrage at human rights violations by security forces are being publicly expressed by large sections of Kashmiri society, including women and children, and not just by those who took up militancy. What has also changed is the mood. Ten years ago, when I first visited the Valley, my impressions were of a collective trauma characterised emotionally by pervasive and intense fear, insecurity, loss, despair and helplessness and socially by atomisation and distrust. On my visit last month, my impression was of a degree of assertiveness and even hopefulness, as well as of greater willingness to form social networks. Thirdly, the activism for protest and resistance has broadened to include violent (stone-pelting is not non-violent; people have lost their lives and their eyes due to injuries inflicted by the slingshots of security forces and stones hurled by protesters) as well as non-violent strategies. How do you view the call for azadi from new sections of the population (among the stone-pelters are women and children)? What does their participation indicate? The call for azadi from women is not new. Commentators like Rita Manchanda point out that by 1990 Kashmiris were rallying in the streets, women in the forefront, shouting Marde mujahid, jaag zara ab, vakt shahadat aaya hai (Men of faith rise up, the time for laying down your lives has come).² However, the participation of children and youth in large numbers in street protests is new. There is a generational shift, the new generation has grown up knowing violence, fear, loss and humiliation at close quarters. What has the study yielded for you as a psychologist? And what were the challenges you faced? Several things come to mind. One challenge was to deal with the complaint that trying to make sense of political violence is tantamount to justifying such violence. My engagement in this study also pushed me to interrogate the discourses about violence. Much of this discourse is taken up with differentiating legitimate and therefore acceptable violence from illegitimate and therefore Œbad¹ violence rather than the issue of violence (of any kind) versus non-violence. It raised troubling questions regarding the normalisation and Œmoralisation¹ of violence‹in raising and educating children, as well as in maintaining discipline, honour and perceived entitlements in personal, familial and social contexts. It also raised practical challenges as to the socialisation into, and Œmoralisation¹ of, non-violent modes of resolving conflict. I also wondered about the daunting business of breaking cycles of violence that run on victimhood and revenge. The lessons of Tibet and South Africa suggest the importance of a strong moral authority and a containing moral vision that rejects violence. You have presented accounts of 24 former militants, detailing the tortures they went through at the hands of the security forces. How does the healing process start? The tortured need physical and mental help, and torture victims benefit immensely from giving testimonies on human rights forums. But I think the legislation on torture currently being discussed needs to be expedited. Torture sustains the construction of a reality that fuels fear in the public about enemies who must be eliminated at any cost. Let me take you to a study in Stanford called the Prison Experiment where a prison-like situation was simulated and where students took on the role of prisoners and guards‹the study had to be abandoned after it was found within a week that the guards were turning more and more violent and the prisoners increasingly passive. Abuse and violence, I feel, are the creation of a system that provides a higher authority which validates such actions that would ordinarily be constrained by norms and ethics. From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 14:10:21 2010 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:10:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Private Sector in Micro-finance Message-ID: http://www.pragoti.org/node/4202 Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From shashidhar at butterfliesindia.org Wed Nov 17 14:14:55 2010 From: shashidhar at butterfliesindia.org (Shashidhar) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:14:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dose of Vigilance Helps Manage HIV, AIDS Message-ID: <004801cb8633$b540ad80$1fc20880$@butterfliesindia.org> An interesting piece on the spread of HIV, AIDS in Bangladesh, someone from Bangla should verify this data.. frankly 1745 cases in 20 years speaks of either great efforts at combating the spread or of extremely poor surveillance and services. Entire article can be found on http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=53443 Dose of Vigilance Helps Manage HIV, AIDS By Naimul Haq DHAKA, Nov 3, 2010 (IPS) - It is one of the poorest countries in the world, has a low literacy rate, and is next door to at least two countries that have a considerable portion of their respective populations with HIV and AIDS. Yet even having a large migrant population has not made Bangladesh a hot spot for HIV and AIDS. "Indeed, there is a host of factors that render the country highly vulnerable to a surge in HIV (cases)," says Muhammad Abdur Rahman, head of the National HIV/AIDS and STD (sexually transmitted diseases) Programme (NASP).  "But," he continues, "I think the government’s decision from the beginning to act as a catalyst and recognise NGOs (non-government organisations) that have real capacities to implement HIV and AIDS programmes were the key to (its) success."  Official data show that since the country had its first HIV case on record in 1989, it now has some 1,745. Including unreported cases, the real figure is estimated to be a relatively low 7,500. Overall, HIV prevalence rate in Bangladesh, a country of more than 164 million people, is less than one percent.  By comparison, neighbouring India has 2.31 million people living with the virus, while Burma, which has a part bordering Bangladesh, has 240,000.  Experts agree that unlike its neighbours that did not pay close attention to HIV and AIDS until it had become a major burden, Bangladesh recognised it early and acted immediately to limit its spread.  Indeed, the public and private sectors have been coordinating for decades to establish strong prevention networks.  "There are many partners that supplement the state’s responsibilities and they acted early, particularly working with the groups who engage in risky behaviour," says Habiba Akter, executive director of the Ashar Alo Society, a leading group working on HIV and AIDS issues. "(This) is why Bangladesh still enjoys low HIV prevalence today."  Rahman cites the importance of having the South Asian country’s print and electronic media as "major partners in building awareness" about the disease. The government has also made it a point to raise awareness and knowledge about HIV and AIDS among the youth, making it mandatory for secondary schools to include informal education about it.  Comments journalist Mustafiz Shafi, also an HIV and AIDS activist: "There is a general awareness about (the illness) among the population, especially among the (youth) who are most vulnerable to HIV transmission."  In addition, populations that are considered having behaviour most at risk – such as injecting drug users and sex workers and their clients – are closely monitored. And, says Rahman, "We have a very good system of reporting any sickness, especially in garments factories and other similar factories where young people work."  "There are designated clinics where sick people can seek free treatment or testing if reported ill," he adds. "All such sub-clinics are advised to send information on any signs of risky behaviour and advise (people showing these signs) to volunteer for HIV testing."  "The government has a very strong monitoring and evaluation cell on HIV and AIDS across the country," affirms Rahman. "We have been relying on such strategies to fill any gap so that interventions are not missed."  An important component to the country’s HIV and AIDS monitoring system is the network of some 150 NGOs that coordinate and report regularly on newly detected cases to the central data storing centre here in the capital.  This system also helps people who are diagnosed with the disease find the nearest organisation that would be able to give them advice and whatever else they may need.  "It was like being in mother’s lap," says a street vendor here who was introduced to Ashar Alo shortly after he found out he has HIV. "The first few sessions of counselling, peer education, and advocacy on positive living were very helpful as I was almost lost."  The Athar Alo Society was among the first NGOs in Bangladesh to establish strong HIV and AIDS advocacy programmes across the country. Among others, it works for rights-based support for people living with HIV and AIDS, including social security.  Still, NGOs and the government alike know that they cannot be complacent despite their continued success against the virus.  The street vendor working with Athar Alo is one reminder that they need to remain vigilant. Poor and illiterate, the vendor was also an injecting drug user. In the last national serological and behavioural surveillance done in 2007, injecting drug users in Dhaka were found to have an HIV prevalence rate of seven percent, up from 1.4 percent in 2000.  And while people from all walks of life in Bangladesh have heard of HIV and AIDS, misconceptions persist about it.  Thirty-five-year-old vegetable shopkeeper Mohammad Saidullah, says, "I think a person (with) the virus should stay indoors as she or he may transmit it coming in contact with others."  "It is better to stay away from people carrying the virus," a 24-year-old homemaker also says. "If you touch their sweat or drink from the same glass, you may get the virus."  Tasnim Azim of the International Health Research Institute points out as well that people living with HIV and AIDS in Bangladesh are often at risk of being denied the medical care they need.  "(They) desperately need accessible and reliable clinical care," she says. "At present, clinicians and hospitals are not open to providing services especially if they require surgical care – even if it is minor surgery." (END)  From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 16:23:29 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:23:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HC glare on Roy hubby house by RASHEED KIDWAI Message-ID: HC glare on Roy hubby house * * *RASHEED KIDWAI* *Link* - http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101117/jsp/nation/story_13187337.jsp *Bhopal, Nov. 16: *Writer-activist Arundhati Roy’s house in hill resort Panchmarhi is under threat following the rejection of an appeal in Madhya Pradesh High Court. The court has asked Arundhati’s husband, filmmaker Pradeep Kishan, to appear before a sub-divisional magistrate. The order comes four years after the Madhya Pradesh government had served a notice on Kishan and others for encroaching on tribal land. The bungalow owned by Kishan is in Bariyam village of Panchmarhi, 250km south-east of Bhopal and part of the Panchmarhi special area development authority created to protect wildlife in the region. In Bhopal, the buzz is that the Shivraj Singh Chauhan-led BJP regime is in a mood to “punish” Roy following her support for “azaadi” in the Kashmir Valley. Chauhan had recently gone on record suggesting jail as an “ideal place” for Roy for her “seditious pronouncements”. Roy and Kishan got embroiled in the land controversy in 2003 when the local administration claimed their elevated bungalow overlooking twin hillocks and vast rolling greens was in notified forest land. Then SDM Niyaz Ahmad of Pipariya had acted upon a complaint filed by Vijay Singh, a tribal, that Roy’s husband and three others, including Aradhana Seth, sister of writer Vikram Seth, had allegedly encroached on tribal land. In his affidavit, Vijay had accused them of constructing a cemented road to their bungalows without bothering to obtain permission or pay adequate compensation. Senior government officials who did not wish to be named said Kishan had bought the 4,346sqft plot in 1994. The government subsequently filed a suit arguing that the Forest Act of 1972 banned the sale of land in notified forest areas. Section 18 of the law bars buying and selling of notified forest land. Roy has also been a controversial figure in Madhya Pradesh. A few years ago, she campaigned for the rights of Bhopal gas survivors and villagers displaced by the Sardar Sarovar dam. Soon after winning the Booker in 1997, she joined Medha Patkar’s fight, saying the Narmada dam was a “fault line” between the rich and the poor. Today, she is having to contend with sarcastic comments from state BJP leaders who want her reaction to her husband “trampling upon the rights of hundreds and thousands of animal species”. A state BJP spokesperson said: “Perhaps it’s time for Arundhati to look into her own backyard. Instead of extending support to Kashmiri separatists and Naxalites, she should consider the plight of helpless animals who have been driven out of forest land simply because they do not have an Arundhati to speak for them.” If the SDM’s verdict goes against them, Roy, Kishan and the others can appeal to Manoj Srivastva, commissioner, Bhopal and Narmadapuram (Hoshangabad) division. Reprieve may come at another level, too, if the Supreme Court accepts a court-appointed empowered panel’s finding that Bariyam doesn’t fall in the category of a forest village despite being in the heart of a forest. From samvitr at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 16:34:54 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:34:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HC glare on Roy hubby house by RASHEED KIDWAI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow!! This seems to be her real agenda. She shows the world that she is the messiah of the "oppressed" and then she usurps their land. I can't believe that she has a retreat in Panchmarhi. I am sure if someone investigates her you would find it a bigger scam than the 2G issue. -SR On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > HC glare on Roy hubby house > * > * > *RASHEED KIDWAI* > > *Link* - http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101117/jsp/nation/story_13187337.jsp > > *Bhopal, Nov. 16: *Writer-activist Arundhati Roy’s house in hill resort > Panchmarhi is under threat following the rejection of an appeal in Madhya > Pradesh High Court. > > The court has asked Arundhati’s husband, filmmaker Pradeep Kishan, to appear > before a sub-divisional magistrate. > > The order comes four years after the Madhya Pradesh government had served a > notice on Kishan and others for encroaching on tribal land. > > The bungalow owned by Kishan is in Bariyam village of Panchmarhi, 250km > south-east of Bhopal and part of the Panchmarhi special area development > authority created to protect wildlife in the region. > > In Bhopal, the buzz is that the Shivraj Singh Chauhan-led BJP regime is in a > mood to “punish” Roy following her support for “azaadi” in the Kashmir > Valley. > > Chauhan had recently gone on record suggesting jail as an “ideal place” for > Roy for her “seditious pronouncements”. > > Roy and Kishan got embroiled in the land controversy in 2003 when the local > administration claimed their elevated bungalow overlooking twin hillocks and > vast rolling greens was in notified forest land. Then SDM Niyaz Ahmad of > Pipariya had acted upon a complaint filed by Vijay Singh, a tribal, that > Roy’s husband and three others, including Aradhana Seth, sister of writer > Vikram Seth, had allegedly encroached on tribal land. > > In his affidavit, Vijay had accused them of constructing a cemented road to > their bungalows without bothering to obtain permission or pay adequate > compensation. > > Senior government officials who did not wish to be named said Kishan had > bought the 4,346sqft plot in 1994. The government subsequently filed a suit > arguing that the Forest Act of 1972 banned the sale of land in notified > forest areas. Section 18 of the law bars buying and selling of notified > forest land. > > Roy has also been a controversial figure in Madhya Pradesh. > > A few years ago, she campaigned for the rights of Bhopal gas survivors and > villagers displaced by the Sardar Sarovar dam. Soon after winning the Booker > in 1997, she joined Medha Patkar’s fight, saying the Narmada dam was a > “fault line” between the rich and the poor. > > Today, she is having to contend with sarcastic comments from state BJP > leaders who want her reaction to her husband “trampling upon the rights of > hundreds and thousands of animal species”. > > A state BJP spokesperson said: “Perhaps it’s time for Arundhati to look into > her own backyard. Instead of extending support to Kashmiri separatists and > Naxalites, she should consider the plight of helpless animals who have been > driven out of forest land simply because they do not have an Arundhati to > speak for them.” > > If the SDM’s verdict goes against them, Roy, Kishan and the others can > appeal to Manoj Srivastva, commissioner, Bhopal and Narmadapuram > (Hoshangabad) division. > > Reprieve may come at another level, too, if the Supreme Court accepts a > court-appointed empowered panel’s finding that Bariyam doesn’t fall in the > category of a forest village despite being in the heart of a forest. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 16:48:24 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:48:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HC glare on Roy hubby house by RASHEED KIDWAI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.forestrightsact.com/current-situation/75-chargesheet-on-governments-violations-of-forest-rights-act Chargesheet on Government's Violations of Forest Rights [image: PDF] [image: Print] [image: E-mail] *THE GOVERNMENT'S VIOLATIONS OF FOREST RIGHTS * *A Chargesheet* *This note focuses on the Forest Rights Act and was prepared as part of the protests that took place in November 2009. It remains valid today. * Passed in December 2006, the Scheduled Tribes and Other Traditional Forest Dwellers (Recognition of Forest Rights) Act was hailed as a historic step towards recognising the rights of forest dwellers and correcting a gross injustice. Almost three years later, it is clear that the government has no intention of allowing it to be implemented. *Illegally Robbing People of Their Lands and Forests* One and a half years after the law came into force, the Environment Ministry finally issued orders this July that barred handing over people's lands and forest resources to corporates or projects without their consent. Yet no action has been initiated against the officials responsible for the illegal forest diversion of the preceding year and a half, and meanwhile State governments are continuing to threaten people with illegal eviction for large projects in Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Jharkhand, Andhra Pradesh and elsewhere. The same story of illegal threats is being repeated in wildlife sanctuaries, national parks and tiger reserves. *What can the government do? :* Comply with the law and stop expropriating resources. *What has the government done? : *Both Centre and State are still violating the law. *Forest Department Illegally Blocking People's Rights to Their Homes, Lands * The law lays down a clear three stage process for recognition of people's rights. It also defines what constitutes admissible evidence. The Forest Department has a role at the district and sub-divisional levels, but only as one of the parties involved. But the Department has made every effort to give itself illegal veto powers to deny rights. In most States the Department is refusing to be present at the time of verification by the Forest Rights Committee, and then demanding that the claim be rejected at the screening stage as they did not attend. In several major States, only rights of those on Forest Department lists of "pre-1980 encroachers" are being recognised. In Rajasthan, the State government illegally insists that the signatures of the forest beat guard and other officials are required on every claim, resulting in harassment and extortion. The net result of this kind of interference is that the majority of eligible claimants are being rejected. *What can the government do? *: Issue clear orders against such interference and take disciplinary action against the officers involved. *What has the government done? *: The Central government has done nothing. No State government has taken action either, and many – Chhattisgarh, Rajasthan, West Bengal, etc. - have issued illegal orders favouring the Forest Department or giving them extra powers in the process. *Denying People's Control Over Their Forests* The Forest Rights Act not only provides for rights to individual landholdings – it also recognises that communities have the right and the power to protect and manage their forests, and to prevent land mafias, corrupt officials and government agencies from damaging or destroying them. But these rights and powers are not being recognised anywhere. No procedures have been provided for most of them, and no system is in place to ensure they are respected. *What can the government do? : *The Central government can issue clear Rules and procedures for the recognition of all rights in the law. The State governments are required by law to recognise and respect them. *What has the government done?* : The rights in sections 3(1)(b), 3(1)(c), 3(1)(d), 3(1)(e), 3(1)(i), 3(1)(m) and 4(8), pertaining to nistari rights, ownership of minor forest produce, grazing areas / water bodies, habitats, community forest resources, illegal evictions and displacement respectively, are ignored in the Rules, effectively rendering them meaningless. All State governments have hence been conveniently ignoring and often violating these rights as well. *Imposing Joint Forest Management Instead of Respecting People's Rights* The flip side of denying community forest rights is the promotion of dangerous sham “participatory” schemes, particularly Joint Forest Management. Indeed, huge amounts of money are being pumped into “plantation” programmes in forest areas, mostly to be run through these Joint Forest Management Committees. These Committees, though nominally “participatory”, are in fact controlled by the Forest Department, as the forest guard is the member-secretary. The result is that these Committees are controlled by contractors and others who are close to the Forest Department, and in practice function as proxy troops, engaging in plantations, evictions etc. in place of the Department itself. Most such plantations are done on people's lands, to which they have unrecorded rights, or in common lands; after which these lands are illegally converted into reserved forests without following due process of law. Plantations deprive large numbers of people of their lands every year, even after they were barred from doing so by the Forest Rights Act. But, despite this, the government is pumping hundreds of crores into these programmes every year, both from the Compensatory Afforestation Fund and from international bilateral loans to State governments. If the government is truly interested in 'participatory' forestry, why is it not respecting the law and implementing these programmes in accordance with people's will as expressed through their community institutions? Why is it violating the law and democracy in favour of illegal “afforestation”? *What can the government do? : *Shut down the Joint Forest Management programme and ensure that all schemes in forest areas are undertaken with the consent of and under the control of the communities. *What has the government done? : *Both Central and State governments have Intensified their offensive against community rights even in the face of public and Parliamentary criticism. Several States – West Bengal, Kerala, Andhra Pradesh, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Orissa etc. - have accelerated JFM Committee formation after the passage of the Forest Rights Act. *Officials Illegally Taking Over Process* The Forest Rights Act requires that all rights be recognised through a transparent, public process, where the gram sabha or village assembly is central.* *Instead of following that process, government officers are imposing their own diktats. Gram sabhas are being deliberately called at the panchayat level or even larger units in Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and elsewhere– where they are too large for adivasis and forest dwellers to have their voices heard. This is in direct violation of the Act, especially in Schedule V areas. Even where gram sabhas have functioned and recommended claims, in Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh and other States, the area over which rights are being recognised is being illegally reduced. People cultivating an acre of land file claims for it, have their claims duly verified, and find that the actual title is given for a tenth of the area. Arbitrary criteria are imposed, such as making those who own revenue land ineligible for rights, as has happened in Tamil Nadu. Claimants are not being intimated of rejection and not being allowed to appeal. *What can the government do? : *The Central government should clarify that this kind of interference is illegal and a criminal offence, and State governments should take action against their officers. *What has the government done? *: The Central government has made space for further interference by issuing ambiguous orders. State governments are encouraging interference by issuing illegal orders on gram sabhas and eligibility criteria. *Terminating the Process Before People Can File Claims for Rights Recognition* The Act does not provide any timeline for implementation. Under the Rules, only the gram sabha has the power to fix when the three month filing period will begin, and can also extend that period.. Yet State governments are arbitrarily imposing cutoff dates and threatening people that claims will not be accepted after that. Now the Central government wants to rush the major States into completing implementation in December 2009, when it has barely begun and is riddled with illegalities. *What can the government do? : *Ensure that officials and State governments comply with gram sabha decisions on the timeline. Make sure all eligible claimants know how and when to file for rights and are able to file appeals. *What has the government done? *: Imposed illegal deadline after illegal deadline. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Samvit wrote: > Wow!! This seems to be her real agenda. She shows the world that she > is the messiah of the "oppressed" and then she usurps their land. I > can't believe that she has a retreat in Panchmarhi. I am sure if > someone investigates her you would find it a bigger scam than > the 2G issue. > -SR > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > HC glare on Roy hubby house > > * > > * > > *RASHEED KIDWAI* > > > > *Link* - > http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101117/jsp/nation/story_13187337.jsp > > > > *Bhopal, Nov. 16: *Writer-activist Arundhati Roy’s house in hill resort > > Panchmarhi is under threat following the rejection of an appeal in Madhya > > Pradesh High Court. > > > > The court has asked Arundhati’s husband, filmmaker Pradeep Kishan, to > appear > > before a sub-divisional magistrate. > > > > The order comes four years after the Madhya Pradesh government had served > a > > notice on Kishan and others for encroaching on tribal land. > > > > The bungalow owned by Kishan is in Bariyam village of Panchmarhi, 250km > > south-east of Bhopal and part of the Panchmarhi special area development > > authority created to protect wildlife in the region. > > > > In Bhopal, the buzz is that the Shivraj Singh Chauhan-led BJP regime is > in a > > mood to “punish” Roy following her support for “azaadi” in the Kashmir > > Valley. > > > > Chauhan had recently gone on record suggesting jail as an “ideal place” > for > > Roy for her “seditious pronouncements”. > > > > Roy and Kishan got embroiled in the land controversy in 2003 when the > local > > administration claimed their elevated bungalow overlooking twin hillocks > and > > vast rolling greens was in notified forest land. Then SDM Niyaz Ahmad of > > Pipariya had acted upon a complaint filed by Vijay Singh, a tribal, that > > Roy’s husband and three others, including Aradhana Seth, sister of writer > > Vikram Seth, had allegedly encroached on tribal land. > > > > In his affidavit, Vijay had accused them of constructing a cemented road > to > > their bungalows without bothering to obtain permission or pay adequate > > compensation. > > > > Senior government officials who did not wish to be named said Kishan had > > bought the 4,346sqft plot in 1994. The government subsequently filed a > suit > > arguing that the Forest Act of 1972 banned the sale of land in notified > > forest areas. Section 18 of the law bars buying and selling of notified > > forest land. > > > > Roy has also been a controversial figure in Madhya Pradesh. > > > > A few years ago, she campaigned for the rights of Bhopal gas survivors > and > > villagers displaced by the Sardar Sarovar dam. Soon after winning the > Booker > > in 1997, she joined Medha Patkar’s fight, saying the Narmada dam was a > > “fault line” between the rich and the poor. > > > > Today, she is having to contend with sarcastic comments from state BJP > > leaders who want her reaction to her husband “trampling upon the rights > of > > hundreds and thousands of animal species”. > > > > A state BJP spokesperson said: “Perhaps it’s time for Arundhati to look > into > > her own backyard. Instead of extending support to Kashmiri separatists > and > > Naxalites, she should consider the plight of helpless animals who have > been > > driven out of forest land simply because they do not have an Arundhati to > > speak for them.” > > > > If the SDM’s verdict goes against them, Roy, Kishan and the others can > > appeal to Manoj Srivastva, commissioner, Bhopal and Narmadapuram > > (Hoshangabad) division. > > > > Reprieve may come at another level, too, if the Supreme Court accepts a > > court-appointed empowered panel’s finding that Bariyam doesn’t fall in > the > > category of a forest village despite being in the heart of a forest. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 16:50:07 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:50:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HC glare on Roy hubby house by RASHEED KIDWAI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article9828.ece In recent local media reports and a half-page advertisement carried in a national daily, the Madhya Pradesh government has claimed to be number one in implementing the Scheduled Tribes and other Traditional Forest Dwellers (Recognition of Forest Rights) Act, 2006. Evidences from the field fly in the face of this claim, suggesting that the State stands first in rejecting claims made by forest-dwellers. Jhabua, where 86 per cent of the population is tribal, is also the district with the highest density of tribal population. As many as 1,645 individual claims and one community claim were received from the district, and of these, only 120 were approved by the district-level committee as on July 24 this year. In Morjhariya and other hamlets of Mohankot village in Petlawad block, the committee rejected 228 claims without consulting the sub-divisional level committee. At Rasodhi in Rama block, all 380 claims were rejected. I recommended that the claims of the Morjhariya tribals be approved, but the SDM and CEO didn't listen, says Kesar Bai, the only female member of the sub-divisional level committee. Moreover, the rejection letters issued to the claimants cited no reason, a serious violation of the rules and procedures of the Act. The locals say the Revenue Department had acquired the land of the Bhil tribals of Morjhariya for digging an irrigation pond, paying them a meagre compensation of Rs.300-400 apiece. With their land taken away, the tribals started working in forestland 25 years ago. According to the Recognition of Forest Rights Act, 2006, all individuals and communities cultivating forestland on or before December 12, 2005, could claim the rights for the land. *Claimants threatened* Barely a month after claims were filed, Forest and Revenue Department officials, accompanied by 250 policemen, descended on the area and threatened the claimants. They pushed us around, took away our beds and destroyed our *taprees' (sheds), says Viru Singh, one of the claimants. They said, tum log chale jao yahaan se, ye tumhaari zameen nahi hai, na kabhi hogi (leave this land, it does not belong to you and it never will)', he said. Thereafter the Forest Department established in the area a vigilance chowki with a guard. A case of encroachment on forestland and collective nuisance was filed against the claimants. Those booked included women and children and a disabled woman. In another case, 39 people were booked for destroying grazing fields. Why did the department station the guard after we filed claims and after this incident, asks Viru Singh. The protected forestland, which the officials claim has been encroached upon by claimants, does not have a single plantation, except rows of Jatropha. , the bio-diesel plant. The government, however, maintains that everything is fine and vouches for the speedy implementation of the Act. The Act is being implemented in good spirit across the State, and Madhya Pradesh has been very fast in the implementation of the Act, says Jaideep Govind, Commissioner, Tribal Welfare Department.Asked why so many claims from a tribal-dominated district were rejected, he said: According to our analysis, there were a lot of spurious claims, and most of them could not provide the required documents for certification. He refused to be quoted on any other issue related to the implementation of the Act. The Morjhariya tribals, however, say they submitted all necessary documents, including the copy of an appeal sent to the Chief Minister in 1999, which proves that they were had been cultivating the land from before 2005.Of the 10 districts mentioned in the advertisement, only Shahdol and, to some extent, Rewa have a sizable tribal population. There is also a mismatch between data provided by the government and that laid out in the advertisement: in the Vidhan Sabha, the government put the number of approved claims for, for instance, Indore, Bhopal and Gwalior at 39,274, 44,951 and 42,078, but the advertisement put these at 287, 1,010 and 163. Keywords: Jhabua tribals , Forest dwellers , Madhya Pradesh On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:48 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > http://www.forestrightsact.com/current-situation/75-chargesheet-on-governments-violations-of-forest-rights-act > Chargesheet on Government's Violations of Forest Rights > [image: PDF] > [image: Print] > [image: E-mail] > > *THE GOVERNMENT'S VIOLATIONS OF FOREST RIGHTS * > > *A Chargesheet* > > *This note focuses on the Forest Rights Act and was prepared as part of > the protests that took place in November 2009. It remains valid today. * > > Passed in December 2006, the Scheduled Tribes and Other Traditional Forest > Dwellers (Recognition of Forest Rights) Act was hailed as a historic step > towards recognising the rights of forest dwellers and correcting a gross > injustice. Almost three years later, it is clear that the government has no > intention of allowing it to be implemented. > > > > *Illegally Robbing People of Their Lands and Forests* > > One and a half years after the law came into force, the Environment > Ministry finally issued orders this July that barred handing over people's > lands and forest resources to corporates or projects without their consent. > Yet no action has been initiated against the officials responsible for the > illegal forest diversion of the preceding year and a half, and meanwhile > State governments are continuing to threaten people with illegal eviction > for large projects in Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Jharkhand, > Andhra Pradesh and elsewhere. The same story of illegal threats is being > repeated in wildlife sanctuaries, national parks and tiger reserves. > > > > *What can the government do? :* Comply with the law and stop expropriating > resources. > > *What has the government done? : *Both Centre and State are still > violating the law. > > > > *Forest Department Illegally Blocking People's Rights to Their Homes, > Lands * > > The law lays down a clear three stage process for recognition of people's > rights. It also defines what constitutes admissible evidence. The Forest > Department has a role at the district and sub-divisional levels, but only as > one of the parties involved. But the Department has made every effort to > give itself illegal veto powers to deny rights. In most States the > Department is refusing to be present at the time of verification by the > Forest Rights Committee, and then demanding that the claim be rejected at > the screening stage as they did not attend. In several major States, only > rights of those on Forest Department lists of "pre-1980 encroachers" are > being recognised. In Rajasthan, the State government illegally insists that > the signatures of the forest beat guard and other officials are required on > every claim, resulting in harassment and extortion. The net result of this > kind of interference is that the majority of eligible claimants are being > rejected. > > > > *What can the government do? *: Issue clear orders against such > interference and take disciplinary action against the officers involved. > > *What has the government done? *: The Central government has done nothing. > No State government has taken action either, and many – Chhattisgarh, > Rajasthan, West Bengal, etc. - have issued illegal orders favouring the > Forest Department or giving them extra powers in the process. > > > > *Denying People's Control Over Their Forests* > > The Forest Rights Act not only provides for rights to individual > landholdings – it also recognises that communities have the right and the > power to protect and manage their forests, and to prevent land mafias, > corrupt officials and government agencies from damaging or destroying them. > But these rights and powers are not being recognised anywhere. No procedures > have been provided for most of them, and no system is in place to ensure > they are respected. > > > > *What can the government do? : *The Central government can issue clear > Rules and procedures for the recognition of all rights in the law. The State > governments are required by law to recognise and respect them. > > *What has the government done?* : The rights in sections 3(1)(b), 3(1)(c), > 3(1)(d), 3(1)(e), 3(1)(i), 3(1)(m) and 4(8), pertaining to nistari rights, > ownership of minor forest produce, grazing areas / water bodies, habitats, > community forest resources, illegal evictions and displacement respectively, > are ignored in the Rules, effectively rendering them meaningless. All State > governments have hence been conveniently ignoring and often violating these > rights as well. > > > > *Imposing Joint Forest Management Instead of Respecting People's Rights* > > The flip side of denying community forest rights is the promotion of > dangerous sham “participatory” schemes, particularly Joint Forest > Management. Indeed, huge amounts of money are being pumped into “plantation” > programmes in forest areas, mostly to be run through these Joint Forest > Management Committees. These Committees, though nominally “participatory”, > are in fact controlled by the Forest Department, as the forest guard is the > member-secretary. The result is that these Committees are controlled by > contractors and others who are close to the Forest Department, and in > practice function as proxy troops, engaging in plantations, evictions etc. > in place of the Department itself. > > Most such plantations are done on people's lands, to which they have > unrecorded rights, or in common lands; after which these lands are illegally > converted into reserved forests without following due process of law. > Plantations deprive large numbers of people of their lands every year, even > after they were barred from doing so by the Forest Rights Act. But, despite > this, the government is pumping hundreds of crores into these programmes > every year, both from the Compensatory Afforestation Fund and from > international bilateral loans to State governments. If the government is > truly interested in 'participatory' forestry, why is it not respecting the > law and implementing these programmes in accordance with people's will as > expressed through their community institutions? Why is it violating the law > and democracy in favour of illegal “afforestation”? > > > > *What can the government do? : *Shut down the Joint Forest Management > programme and ensure that all schemes in forest areas are undertaken with > the consent of and under the control of the communities. > > *What has the government done? : *Both Central and State governments have > Intensified their offensive against community rights even in the face of > public and Parliamentary criticism. Several States – West Bengal, Kerala, > Andhra Pradesh, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Orissa etc. - have accelerated JFM > Committee formation after the passage of the Forest Rights Act. > > > > *Officials Illegally Taking Over Process* > > The Forest Rights Act requires that all rights be recognised through a > transparent, public process, where the gram sabha or village assembly is > central.* *Instead of following that process, government officers are > imposing their own diktats. Gram sabhas are being deliberately called at the > panchayat level or even larger units in Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and > elsewhere– where they are too large for adivasis and forest dwellers to have > their voices heard. This is in direct violation of the Act, especially in > Schedule V areas. Even where gram sabhas have functioned and recommended > claims, in Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh and other States, the > area over which rights are being recognised is being illegally reduced. > People cultivating an acre of land file claims for it, have their claims > duly verified, and find that the actual title is given for a tenth of the > area. Arbitrary criteria are imposed, such as making those who own revenue > land ineligible for rights, as has happened in Tamil Nadu. Claimants are not > being intimated of rejection and not being allowed to appeal. > > > > *What can the government do? : *The Central government should clarify that > this kind of interference is illegal and a criminal offence, and State > governments should take action against their officers. > > *What has the government done? *: The Central government has made space > for further interference by issuing ambiguous orders. State governments are > encouraging interference by issuing illegal orders on gram sabhas and > eligibility criteria. > > > > *Terminating the Process Before People Can File Claims for Rights > Recognition* > > The Act does not provide any timeline for implementation. Under the Rules, > only the gram sabha has the power to fix when the three month filing period > will begin, and can also extend that period.. Yet State governments are > arbitrarily imposing cutoff dates and threatening people that claims will > not be accepted after that. Now the Central government wants to rush the > major States into completing implementation in December 2009, when it has > barely begun and is riddled with illegalities. > > > > *What can the government do? : *Ensure that officials and State > governments comply with gram sabha decisions on the timeline. Make sure all > eligible claimants know how and when to file for rights and are able to file > appeals. > > *What has the government done? *: Imposed illegal deadline after illegal > deadline. > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Samvit wrote: > >> Wow!! This seems to be her real agenda. She shows the world that she >> is the messiah of the "oppressed" and then she usurps their land. I >> can't believe that she has a retreat in Panchmarhi. I am sure if >> someone investigates her you would find it a bigger scam than >> the 2G issue. >> -SR >> >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> wrote: >> > HC glare on Roy hubby house >> > * >> > * >> > *RASHEED KIDWAI* >> > >> > *Link* - >> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101117/jsp/nation/story_13187337.jsp >> > >> > *Bhopal, Nov. 16: *Writer-activist Arundhati Roy’s house in hill resort >> > Panchmarhi is under threat following the rejection of an appeal in >> Madhya >> > Pradesh High Court. >> > >> > The court has asked Arundhati’s husband, filmmaker Pradeep Kishan, to >> appear >> > before a sub-divisional magistrate. >> > >> > The order comes four years after the Madhya Pradesh government had >> served a >> > notice on Kishan and others for encroaching on tribal land. >> > >> > The bungalow owned by Kishan is in Bariyam village of Panchmarhi, 250km >> > south-east of Bhopal and part of the Panchmarhi special area development >> > authority created to protect wildlife in the region. >> > >> > In Bhopal, the buzz is that the Shivraj Singh Chauhan-led BJP regime is >> in a >> > mood to “punish” Roy following her support for “azaadi” in the Kashmir >> > Valley. >> > >> > Chauhan had recently gone on record suggesting jail as an “ideal place” >> for >> > Roy for her “seditious pronouncements”. >> > >> > Roy and Kishan got embroiled in the land controversy in 2003 when the >> local >> > administration claimed their elevated bungalow overlooking twin hillocks >> and >> > vast rolling greens was in notified forest land. Then SDM Niyaz Ahmad of >> > Pipariya had acted upon a complaint filed by Vijay Singh, a tribal, that >> > Roy’s husband and three others, including Aradhana Seth, sister of >> writer >> > Vikram Seth, had allegedly encroached on tribal land. >> > >> > In his affidavit, Vijay had accused them of constructing a cemented road >> to >> > their bungalows without bothering to obtain permission or pay adequate >> > compensation. >> > >> > Senior government officials who did not wish to be named said Kishan had >> > bought the 4,346sqft plot in 1994. The government subsequently filed a >> suit >> > arguing that the Forest Act of 1972 banned the sale of land in notified >> > forest areas. Section 18 of the law bars buying and selling of notified >> > forest land. >> > >> > Roy has also been a controversial figure in Madhya Pradesh. >> > >> > A few years ago, she campaigned for the rights of Bhopal gas survivors >> and >> > villagers displaced by the Sardar Sarovar dam. Soon after winning the >> Booker >> > in 1997, she joined Medha Patkar’s fight, saying the Narmada dam was a >> > “fault line” between the rich and the poor. >> > >> > Today, she is having to contend with sarcastic comments from state BJP >> > leaders who want her reaction to her husband “trampling upon the rights >> of >> > hundreds and thousands of animal species”. >> > >> > A state BJP spokesperson said: “Perhaps it’s time for Arundhati to look >> into >> > her own backyard. Instead of extending support to Kashmiri separatists >> and >> > Naxalites, she should consider the plight of helpless animals who have >> been >> > driven out of forest land simply because they do not have an Arundhati >> to >> > speak for them.” >> > >> > If the SDM’s verdict goes against them, Roy, Kishan and the others can >> > appeal to Manoj Srivastva, commissioner, Bhopal and Narmadapuram >> > (Hoshangabad) division. >> > >> > Reprieve may come at another level, too, if the Supreme Court accepts a >> > court-appointed empowered panel’s finding that Bariyam doesn’t fall in >> the >> > category of a forest village despite being in the heart of a forest. >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From naresh.rhythm at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 19:37:20 2010 From: naresh.rhythm at gmail.com (Naresh Kumar) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 19:37:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation for a Competition on Short Mobile Films on Disability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Please forward it to other institutions as well as media teachers and students. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sambhavana Group Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:52:00 +0530 Subject: Invitation for a Competition on Short Mobile Films on Disability To: naresh.rhythm at gmail.com, pratap_m00 at yahoo.co.in, nik31 at rediffmail.com Cc: vikasedu at gmail.com On the World Disability Day (December 3rd), Sambhavana, an organization of disabled and nondisabled teachers and students is organizing a disability related mobile-shot films competition. The films may be concerned about various issues ranging from accessibility to social attitudes, experiences or perceptions of the disabled/about disabilities, personal achievements, education, employment and many more issues. We are looking for more subtle and nuanced representations of disability instead of rhetoric or eulogizing narrations. Amateur filmmakers, especially students from academic institutions are invited to send their entries while keeping following points in mind: The duration of the film may range from a few shots to maximum length of six minutes. The dubbing, paradubbing and voice over may be in English or Hindi only. Proper numbering also must be done. The last date of sending the entries is 27/11/10. Entries should preferably be sent through e-mail at sambhavana.group at gmail.com. Alternatively, these may be posted at the address given below: Naresh Kumar, 360, (Second Floor), Pocket 9, Sector 21, Rohini, New Delhi 86. Maximum three decent cash prizes will be given to the best entries judged by a competent jury of film makers and media practitioners. Other modalities of screening etc would be communicated after the entries reach us. Kindly send the entries along with these details: Name, Institutional affiliation, Contact (postal address, phone, e-mail). For further queries, please contact: Naresh Kumar, Mobile: 09999308530. E-mail: naresh.rhythm at gmail.com -- Naresh Kumar Assistant Professor Department of History Kamala Nehru College (University of Delhi) From chintan.backups at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 20:20:59 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 20:20:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Seeking the Beloved: Festival of Sindhi Sufi Poetry, Nov 21, Bangalore Message-ID: For information about passes, mail sampaulsake at gmail.com -- From http://www.kabirproject.org/events/seeking%20the%20beloved%20festival%20of%20sindhi%20sufi%20poetry%20in%20bangalore Venue/s: Sophia High School Auditorium, Near Golf Club, Bangalore Promotional Video : (http://vimeo.com/16690747) What – A festival of poetry by 17th century poet Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai – featuring folk singers from Kutch, poetry readings and evocative story telling of the love legends which feature in the Sufi poetry. Where – Sophia School Auditorium, Sophia High School, 70, Palace Road, Bangalore 560 001. When – 6pm-10 pm, Sunday, 21 November 2010. The poet – Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai (1689-1752) is one of the greatest Sufi poets along with Rumi (1207-1273) and Mir Dard (1721-1785), but relatively speaking lesser known. His poetry draws on the power and beauty of Vedanta and Islam melding the two philosophies into one poetic and spiritual vision. His major work is the “Shah Jo Risalo” and his poems thrive today as a vibrant oral tradition being widely sung, quoted and loved by both Hindu and Muslim communities in the Sindh region on both sides of the Indo-Pak border. He takes the popular love legends of the region and speaks through the voices of different woman protagonists. Sometimes he is Sasui, sometimes Moomal, sometimes Sohini and sometimes Marui… and through their journeys of seeking the Truth he expresses his own. His poetry creates a tantalizing dance of expressions between the sensual yearnings for the earthly Beloved and the deeply meditative yearnings for the transcendent Beloved. rabab-like my veins throb but he remains silent my beloved butcher soothe me only you can pacify my soul *** she jumps in to choose safe waters is the path of imposters those who love take on the mighty river (translations by Anju Makhija & Hari Dilgir, from “Seeking the Beloved”, Katha, 2005) Disciples and followers of Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai gather from all over the world annually at an Urs at Bhitshah in Sindh, Pakistan, where the poet spent the final years of his life. The performers – In the festival on Nov 21st, the poetry of Shah Latif will come alive in two distinct musical genres. One is the Kaafi form of singing prevalent amongst the bhajan singers of the Meghval community of Kutch. This style will come alive in the robust yet lilting voice of Mooralala Marwada, a folk singer from Janan village in the Khadeer region of Kutch. The second is a deep, meditative musical form known as Waee which is also the name of the style of poetry created by Shah Latif. This style is prevalent across the border between India and Pakistan. The festival will present the last exponents of the Waee form of singing in the Indian Sindh region – Mitha Khan Jat and Sumar Khan from village Bagadia in the Banni region of Kutch. The poems and love legends – The music performances would be interspersed by evocative story telling of the folk love legends and poetry readings by Mumbai-based translator & poet Anju Makhija and filmmaker Shabnam Virmani. Also – A sampling of traditional Sindhi cuisine will be available at the venue along with stalls of films, music, books, T-shirts inspired by the poetry of Shah Latif and Kabir. Organized by – The Kabir Project, Sindhi Culture Foundation and National Centre for Biological Sciences. The Kabir Project is housed at the Srishti School of Art, Design and Technology in Bangalore and has been engaged for the last 8 years in understanding and sharing contemporary expressions of the 15 century mystic poet Kabir. Currently the project has begun a similar journey of understanding the Sindhi Sufi poet, Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai. The Sindhi Culture Foundation was founded a year ago with the commitment towards researching and creating awareness about Sindhi culture and history. Donor Passes for Rs. 200/- available at – KC Das – St. Marks Road, CMH Road, Wheeler Road, BTM Layout, Marthahalli, JPNagar, Sampige Road, New BEL Road. Bulchee – Garuda Mall, Forum Value Mall -Whitefield, Cosmos - Whitefield, Total Mall - Sarjapur Sigma Mall, Cunningham Road Prism – The Bookshop, 11th Main, 4th Block Jayanagar 080-26637527, 080-26637527, 080-26637527, 080-26637527, 080-26637527 Inside Bharati Vidya Bhavan, Race Course Road (10.30-5.30) Supermarket – 5th Avenue, Brigade Road 080-25581248 Pecos R & B – Near Ramaiah Hospital, New BEL Road 080-40905168 Pecos – Brigade Road, 080-25586047 MOJO – Residency Road (near Ballal Residency) 41142038 Stones Pub – Indiranagar 41481574 Favourite Shop – Commercial Street, MG Road, Jayanagar, Indiranagar, Marathalli, Forum Value Mall, Whitefield, Mantri Square Soch – Forum Mall, Koramangala, Commercial Street, Forum Value Mall, Whitefield, Mantri Mall 21 Nov6pm-10pmSophia AuditoriumPoetry reading and storytelling of love legends by Anju Makhija and Shabnam Virmani/Performances by the Waee singers and Mooralala Marwada Programme Schedule: 6:00 pm to 7:45 pm Introducing Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai Concert by Mooralala Marwada & troupe (Kaafis & Bhajans) interspersed with poetry reading and story telling of the legends of Umar Marui & Sasui Punhoon 7:45 pm to 8:00 pm Short interval with tea and snacks 8:00 pm to 9:30 pm Concert by Mitha Khan & Sumar Khan Jat (Waee songs) interspersed with poetry reading and story telling of the legends of Sohini Mehar & Moomal Rano 9:30 pm onwards Sindhi cuisine available for dinner Meeting with the performers From subhachops at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 21:50:34 2010 From: subhachops at gmail.com (Subhash) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:50:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rs. 5000 crore Railways scam Message-ID: Whistleblower exposes Rs. 5000 crore Railways scam When you board a train, ever wondered about the cost of curtains in an AC-2 tier coach? Ever noticed a pleasant smell in the toilet? Or is it the stink of corruption? NDTV has access to documents showing how crores are gifted to vendors by Railways which lets them charge exorbitant rates - in return. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhQzTlLnhc8+ From chintan.backups at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 22:23:52 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:23:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Need help with evaluating the British Council's English language program Message-ID: Do get in touch with Jennifer at jennifer.ktg at gmail.com if you can offer help in terms of advice, suggestions, criticism, contacts, or anything she might find useful. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: jennifer thomas Date: Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:40 PM Subject: request for a study Dear Chintan, I am writing to you to request your help with something that I'm trying to get started with. Sujata (Bookworm, Goa) and I want to undertake a small study to reflect on the English program that the British Council runs for government school teachers. The program is called Project English. ( http://www.britishcouncil.org/india-connecting-project-english.htm) We've lately heard a lot about this program and it is steadily spreading across many states. While the initiative is probably a positive one, we feel there is a need to look at the course content and processes more closely. We want to study it in the light of our learnings about language pedagogy at Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai and our own experiences as language teachers. There seems to be little happening to evaluate such programs given the Indian context of classrooms and learners. We are trying to get a sense of the exact nature of course/curriculum content and pedagogy styles they impart. We would also like to hear first person accounts of teachers who have undergone such trainings and have tried to implement it in the classroom. Lastly, we're keen to understand from states using Project English, how the British Council partners with the government network of District Institutes of Education Training (DIETs) and Block Resource Centers (BRCs), to implement it at the ground level. A note about us: Sujata: Has a Masters in Management and a Masters in Education ( Elementary) . She lives and works in Goa, India. She began her career with an NGO that worked with children and disabilites and thus steered her way to learning and now reading. She co owns a not for profit company called Bookworm that works with reading and children's literature in schools and the community of Panaji, Goa. Sujata works with teachers, children, pre-service teachers and is also presently working with Government Primary schools to enhance reading and English Language learning through story and art. She is interested in Language learning in all forms but particularly in the organic nature of language teaching and the nexus between art and language. Jennifer: Has a Masters in English from EFLU, Hyderabad ( formerly CIEFL) and a Masters in Education ( Elementary) from TISS, Mumbai. She taught English literature at the undergraduate level before moving into school education. She currently works with Muktangan, a Mumbai based education NGO which partners with 7 municipal corporation schools in a whole school intervention model.(http://muktanganedu.org/). Muktangan is an educational programme that offers alternatives to orthodox educational practices. As part of the in-service teacher training team she leads the English language teachers in Muktangan schools, working with them on curriculum development and planning. She is interested in in-service teacher training issues, English language pedagogy and is curious about the national scene of English language teaching, vis- a vis the classrooms and the teachers. Since you too worked on writing and language learning for you M.phil, we thought you might be able to give us some good leads at this preliminary stage. Could you forward this to your professors or others who might have similar interests or would be willing to help us? We would appreciate it if you could directly put us in touch with some people too. Looking forward to a positive response. Regards, Jenny From chintan.backups at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 00:26:14 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 00:26:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A library for those who love comics and graphic novels Message-ID: From http://www.leapingwindows.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=53 *Why* Leaping Windows was born of countless hours spent poring over manga on the internet and hovering in the aisles of bookstores reading graphic novels we couldn’t afford to buy. We wanted the satisfaction of holding something tangible. We wanted to read whenever we wanted to – while commuting to work, before going to bed, even sitting on the pot if we so desired! Accessibility and price seemed to be the biggest problems. Not much manga is available in India. Graphic novels are expensive enough to cause a big dent in your pocket if you want to be a frequent buyer. We wanted to try our hand at solving both these problems as best as we could. *What* At first we envisioned a physical space – bookshelves from floor to ceiling crammed with all the books that we could buy, creaking under their weight. Beanbags. Coffee. Regular customers crowding around and discussing comics on lazy afternoons. But on a shoestring budget, we soon realized that the only space we could afford was on the internet. And so, as we came down to earth, Leaping Windows leapt. Leaping Windows is a work in progress. We will be adding more books to the collection as the months go by and hope to expand our community to do as much as possible. There are many new directions we want to take, half of which may turn out to be nothing but pipe dreams. In fact, it’s entirely possible that we end up caffeine addicts, neck deep in debt, despairing over our lack of foresight, but at least we’ll get to read a library-load of comics on the way! *Who* This website is not really about us, so we reasoned that our identities are irrelevant. We love comics. We want to share comics. We want to connect with other people who love comics. Like the Leaping Windows boy who remains faceless, is nobody and can be anybody. For those of you who don’t already know, we leave it to your imagination. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 00:56:39 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 00:56:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arundhati Roy & Pradip Krishen grab tribal land in MP Message-ID: *Arundhati Roy & Pradip Krishen grab tribal land in MP* November 18, 2010 12:59:44 AM *Link* - http://www.dailypioneer.com/297320/Arundhati-Roy--Pradip-Krishen-grab-tribal-land-in-MP.html *Arundhati Roy pretends to be a campaigner for tribal rights. Yet she and her husband are in the thick of a controversy over grabbing tribal land in Pachmarhi. Vivek Trivedi reports* Arundhati Roy, the maverick novelist turned activist, who recently was under a raging controversy triggered by her 'seditious remarks' on Kashmir and pretends to be a campaigner for tribal rights is now along with her husband in the thick of a controversy over grabbing tribal land in Pachmarhi. Roy, who during her teenage years had embarked on a homeless lifestyle, staying in a small hut with a tin roof within the walls of Delhi's Feroz Shah Kotla and making a living selling empty bottles, shot to prominence after inking the novel God of Small Things in 1996, which got her the prestigious Booker's Prize 1997. Ever since then, the writer has devoted herself solely to politics, publishing two more collections of essays as well as working for social causes. The novelist has hogged limelight in the last decade for her activities in socio-political plots like Sardar Sarovar Dam project, India's nuclear weapons programme and corruption of power company Enron. However, apart from these socio-political plots, the land plot purchased by Roy's second husband in Pachmarhi, a picturesque tourist destination in Hoshangabad district of Madhya Pradesh has every now and then put the pro-environment outbursts of this writer cum activist's into suspicion. Roy's personality has never been an unknown entity for the denizens of Madhya Pradesh ever since, she bagged the Booker's Prize in the year 1997 and ensured active association with the Narmada Bachao Andolan (NBA), opposing the mega Sardar Sarovar Project in subsequent years. The God of Small Things author, who has earned an image of a passionate activist, fighting tenaciously for bringing justice on social and environmental causes over the years, suddenly decided to fish in troubled waters by making some objectionable remarks on the Kashmir problem recently. "Kashmir should get azadi from bhookhe-nange Hindustan," said Arundhati Roy at a seminar last month, where the Maoists hosted Kashmir secessionist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, which witnessed large-scale protests by Kashmiri Pandits. However, the controversial remarks had failed to impress many across the country and generated flak from socio-political circles. The crusader of environment conservation and tribals' rights also has a link in Madhya Pradesh, which puts her image under a cloud. The land plot purchased by her second husband and filmmaker Pradip Krishen has mired this writer-activist into a long drawn environmental controversy. Krishen had purchased a plot in Bariaam village situated around 7 km from Pachmarhi from a local resident Sharif Ahmed in 1992. The filmmaker had purchased two pieces of land, out of which he sold out one later on and used the second one for constructing a house. The construction work began in 1992 and concluded four years later in 1996. The Bariaam village is located on the main highway to Pachmarhi falls within the Special Area Development Authority's (SADA) jurisdiction. This is also a part of the Pachmarhi wildlife sanctuary and provisions of Wildlife Act 1972 prohibit holding any land title in the area. The Union Forest and Environment Ministry also has declared it as part of an eco-sensitive zone under the Environment Protection Act. Krishen had purchased the land with few others in the year 1992. He completed construction of the house towards the end of 1993, in time for his wedding with Roy in January 1994. In between other buildings also came up in the area from 1993 to 1996. Writer Vikram Seth's sister Anuradha, a forest officer Nishkant Jhadav and a doctor Jagdish Chandra Sharma also owned land in the notified area. In between, the Pachmarhi Special Area Development Authority (SADA) had served a 'stop building' order on Krishen and Arundhati. The couple however hit back and alleged that they were being targeted for opposing a new development plan for the Pachmarhi area in which hotel-building would be allowed at the cost of despoiling the beauty and sylvan backdrop of the gorgeous tourist destination. The SADA notice, served on March 12, mentioned that under Section 16 of the state Town and Country Planning Act, 1973, the land use of Pachmarhi and its neighbouring areas had been frozen. It accused Krishen of building his house at Bariaam without valid permission from the Town and Country Planning Organisation (TCPO) and directed him to stop all construction activity. The notice may well be the precursor to a demolition order. The Forest Department did not lag behind on this issue and local forest officials insisted that Bariaam village had been part of the wildlife sanctuary since 1977. So the plot of land acquired by Krishen violates a provision of the Wildlife Protection Act, amended in 1991, under which no new rights of property can be created in a protected area. However the couple had maintained that Bariaam was a revenue village and it was not in the Army cantonment or within the boundaries of the sanctuary or the national park. A new twist came in the row, as a local Naib Tehsildar from Pachmarhi cancelled the land title change, which had taken place in March 1992, in favour of Krishen. Roy's husband and others soon approached the Jabalpur High Court against the move and challenged the decision of the Naib Tehsildar. The High Court however directed the petitioner to instead appear before the revenue appellate authority, which was SDM in this case. Krishen however told that court that time limit of making an appeal in the case had passed and the court had granted the relaxation in the matter. The order was pronounced in February this year. In compliance with the High Court order, the petitioner has presented an application before the SDO (civil). There is still some room for respite to Krishen and Arundhati, if the SDM's verdict goes against them, Roy, Krishen and the others can file an appeal with Bhopal and Hoshangabad Commissioner Manoj Shrivastva. *The verdict* Roy and Krishen had got embroiled in the land controversy in 2003 when the local administration claimed their elevated bungalow overlooking twin hillocks and vast rolling greens, was in notified forestland. Then SDM Niyaz Ahmad of Pipariya had acted upon a complaint filed by Vijay Singh, a tribal that Roy's husband and three others, including Aradhana Seth, sister of writer Vikram Seth, had allegedly encroached on tribal land. Later, Roy's husband and a few others had moved the Jabalpur High Court against the verdict of the local administration. The High Court in its verdict, has rejected the appeal and has asked Arundhati's husband to appear before a sub-divisional magistrate. The order has come four years after the Madhya Pradesh Government had served a notice on Krishen and others for encroaching on tribal land. *Pachmarhi in Biosphere Reserve Programme* The United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) has included Pachmarhi in Man and Biosphere Reserve Programme in 2009. The Man And Biosphere (MAB) Programme develops the basis within the natural and social sciences for the rational and sustainable use and conservation of the resources of the biosphere and for the improvement of the overall relationship between people and their environment. It predicts the consequences of today's actions on tomorrow's world and thereby increases people's ability to efficiently manage natural resources for the well being of both human populations and the environment. -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From samvitr at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 08:30:56 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 08:30:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arundhati Roy & Pradip Krishen grab tribal land in MP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This clears the cloud. I was wondering why did Arundhati share the stage with criminals like SAR Geelani. Well, it now seems that she too has an equal record in land grabbing and trampling on tribal rights. In literary circles it is well known that she won the Booker for she anti-India antics/rhetoric. Having spent many year at the FTII, I know a lot of filmmakers and writers who voluntarily portray India in a certain manner to win acclaim abroad. Temple burners like SAR Geelani and landgrabbers like Arundhati Roy should be put behind bars. They are a curse on humanity. -SR On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > *Arundhati Roy & Pradip Krishen grab tribal land in MP* > > November 18, 2010   12:59:44 AM > > *Link* - > http://www.dailypioneer.com/297320/Arundhati-Roy--Pradip-Krishen-grab-tribal-land-in-MP.html > > *Arundhati Roy pretends to be a campaigner for tribal rights. Yet she and > her husband are in the thick of a controversy over grabbing tribal land in > Pachmarhi. Vivek Trivedi reports* > > Arundhati Roy, the maverick novelist turned activist, who recently was under > a raging controversy triggered by her 'seditious remarks' on Kashmir and > pretends to be a campaigner for tribal rights is now along with her husband > in the thick of a controversy over grabbing tribal land in Pachmarhi. > > Roy, who during her teenage years had embarked on a homeless lifestyle, > staying in a small hut with a tin roof within the walls of Delhi's Feroz > Shah Kotla and making a living selling empty bottles, shot to prominence > after inking the novel God of Small Things in 1996, which got her the > prestigious Booker's Prize 1997. Ever since then, the writer has devoted > herself solely to politics, publishing two more collections of essays as > well as working for social causes. > > The novelist has hogged limelight in the last decade for her activities in > socio-political plots like Sardar Sarovar Dam project, India's nuclear > weapons programme and corruption of power company Enron. > > However, apart from these socio-political plots, the land plot purchased by > Roy's second husband in Pachmarhi, a picturesque tourist destination in > Hoshangabad district of Madhya Pradesh has every now and then put the > pro-environment outbursts of this writer cum activist's into suspicion. > > Roy's personality has never been an unknown entity for the denizens of > Madhya Pradesh ever since, she bagged the Booker's Prize in the year 1997 > and ensured active association with the Narmada Bachao Andolan (NBA), > opposing the mega Sardar Sarovar Project in subsequent years. > > The God of Small Things author, who has earned an image of a passionate > activist, fighting tenaciously for bringing justice on social and > environmental causes over the years, suddenly decided to fish in troubled > waters by making some objectionable remarks on the Kashmir problem recently. > > > "Kashmir should get azadi from bhookhe-nange Hindustan," said Arundhati Roy > at a seminar last month, where the Maoists hosted Kashmir secessionist > leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, which witnessed large-scale protests by > Kashmiri Pandits. However, the controversial remarks had failed to impress > many across the country and generated flak from socio-political circles. > > The crusader of environment conservation and tribals' rights also has a link > in Madhya Pradesh, which puts her image under a cloud. The land plot > purchased by her second husband and filmmaker Pradip Krishen has mired this > writer-activist into a long drawn environmental controversy. > > Krishen had purchased a plot in Bariaam village situated around 7 km from > Pachmarhi from a local resident Sharif Ahmed in 1992. The filmmaker had > purchased two pieces of land, out of which he sold out one later on and used > the second one for constructing a house. The construction work began in 1992 > and concluded four years later in 1996. > > The Bariaam village is located on the main highway to Pachmarhi falls within > the Special Area Development Authority's (SADA) jurisdiction. This is also a > part of the Pachmarhi wildlife sanctuary and provisions of Wildlife Act 1972 > prohibit holding any land title in the area. > > The Union Forest and Environment Ministry also has declared it as part of an > eco-sensitive zone under the Environment Protection Act. Krishen had > purchased the land with few others in the year 1992. He completed > construction of the house towards the end of 1993, in time for his wedding > with Roy in January 1994. In between other buildings also came up in the > area from 1993 to 1996. Writer Vikram Seth's sister Anuradha, a forest > officer Nishkant Jhadav and a doctor Jagdish Chandra Sharma also owned land > in the notified area. > > In between, the Pachmarhi Special Area Development Authority (SADA) had > served a 'stop building' order on Krishen and Arundhati. The couple however > hit back and alleged that they were being targeted for opposing a new > development plan for the Pachmarhi area in which hotel-building would be > allowed at the cost of despoiling the beauty and sylvan backdrop of the > gorgeous tourist destination. > > The SADA notice, served on March 12, mentioned that under Section 16 of the > state Town and Country Planning Act, 1973, the land use of Pachmarhi and its > neighbouring areas had been frozen. It accused Krishen of building his house > at Bariaam without valid permission from the Town and Country Planning > Organisation (TCPO) and directed him to stop all construction activity. The > notice may well be the precursor to a demolition order. > > The Forest Department did not lag behind on this issue and local forest > officials insisted that Bariaam village had been part of the wildlife > sanctuary since 1977. So the plot of land acquired by Krishen violates a > provision of the Wildlife Protection Act, amended in 1991, under which no > new rights of property can be created in a protected area. However the > couple had maintained that Bariaam was a revenue village and it was not in > the Army cantonment or within the boundaries of the sanctuary or the > national park. > > A new twist came in the row, as a local Naib Tehsildar from Pachmarhi > cancelled the land title change, which had taken place in March 1992, in > favour of Krishen. Roy's husband and others soon approached the Jabalpur > High Court against the move and challenged the decision of the Naib > Tehsildar. > > The High Court however directed the petitioner to instead appear before the > revenue appellate authority, which was SDM in this case. Krishen however > told that court that time limit of making an appeal in the case had passed > and the court had granted the relaxation in the matter. The order was > pronounced in February this year. In compliance with the High Court order, > the petitioner has presented an application before the SDO (civil). > > There is still some room for respite to Krishen and Arundhati, if the SDM's > verdict goes against them, Roy, Krishen and the others can file an appeal > with Bhopal and Hoshangabad Commissioner Manoj Shrivastva. > > *The verdict* > > Roy and Krishen had got embroiled in the land controversy in 2003 when the > local administration claimed their elevated bungalow overlooking twin > hillocks and vast rolling greens, was in notified forestland. > > Then SDM Niyaz Ahmad of Pipariya had acted upon a complaint filed by Vijay > Singh, a tribal that Roy's husband and three others, including Aradhana > Seth, sister of writer Vikram Seth, had allegedly encroached on tribal land. > Later, Roy's husband and a few others had moved the Jabalpur High Court > against the verdict of the local administration. > > The High Court in its verdict, has rejected the appeal and has asked > Arundhati's husband to appear before a sub-divisional magistrate. The order > has come four years after the Madhya Pradesh Government had served a notice > on Krishen and others for encroaching on tribal land. > > *Pachmarhi in Biosphere Reserve Programme* > > The United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) > has included Pachmarhi in Man and Biosphere Reserve Programme in 2009. The > Man And Biosphere (MAB) Programme develops the basis within the natural and > social sciences for the rational and sustainable use and conservation of the > resources of the biosphere and for the improvement of the overall > relationship between people and their environment. It predicts the > consequences of today's actions on tomorrow's world and thereby increases > people's ability to efficiently manage natural resources for the well being > of both human populations and the environment. > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > India Editor > The Indian, Australia > > Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rohitrellan at aol.in Thu Nov 18 11:13:23 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 00:43:23 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] An appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales In-Reply-To: <8CD54FA65B562C8-1F54-7613@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD54FA3940C23B-1F54-75F3@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD54FA65B562C8-1F54-7613@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD54FAA6446887-1F54-7653@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> An appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales      I got a lot of funny looks ten years ago when I started talking to people about Wikipedia.      Let’s just say some people were skeptical of the notion that volunteers  from all across the world could come together to create a remarkable pool of human knowledge – all for the simple purpose of sharing.      No ads. No agenda. No strings attached.      A decade after its founding, nearly 400 million people use Wikipedia and its sister sites every month - almost a third of the Internet-connected world.      It is the 5th most popular website in the world - but Wikipedia isn’t anything like a commercial website. It is a community creation, written by volunteers making one entry at a time. You are part of our community. And I’m writing today to ask you to protect and sustain Wikipedia.      Together, we can keep it free of charge and free of advertising. We can keep it open – you can use the information in Wikipedia any way you want. We can keep it growing – spreading knowledge everywhere, and inviting participation from everyone.      Each year at this time, we reach out to ask you and others all across the Wikimedia community to help sustain our joint enterprise with a modest donation of $20, $35, $50 or more.      If you value Wikipedia as a source of information – and a source of inspiration – I hope you’ll choose to act right now.      All the best,      Jimmy Wales      Founder, Wikipedia      P.S. Wikipedia is about the power of people like us to do extraordinary things. People like us write Wikipedia, one word at a time. People like us fund it, one donation at a time. It's proof of our collective potential to change the world.      http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=WMFJA1/en&utm_source=2010_JA1_Banner2_button_EN1&utm_medium=sitenotice&utm_campaign=20101115JA01&referrer=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page       From samvitr at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 17:22:33 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:22:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lies about Tribal Rights and leftist propaganda Message-ID: Lies about tribal rights TAVLEEN SINGH http://www.india-seminar.com/2005/552/552%20tavleen%20singh.htm back to issue AT around the time the media discovered the tribal rights bill, I happened to visit an industrial settlement called Atul, on the banks of the Par river just about where Maharashtra ends and Gujarat begins. It was a fortuitous coincidence because Atul is an excellent example of how the lives of adivasis can be improved without needing to sacrifice the last of our forests to their well-being. It is my conviction that if the draft Scheduled Tribes (Recognition of Forest Rights) Bill becomes law then its main achievement will be the destruction of our forests and not the betterment of adivasi living standards. I drove to Atul from Mumbai on one of Atal Behari Vajpayee’s new highways; a journey that till last year took six hours now takes three. In that time you move from India’s cosmopolitan commercial capital to a district that till recently was, despite being on a national highway, an adivasi backwater. Local people remember that till ten years ago, when the 21st century began to creep in through telephones, roads and television, the average adivasi lived the life of a hunter-gatherer. He collected and sold forest produce and this brought him barely enough to buy a loincloth for himself and a cheap sari for his wife. Home was a mud hut without the hope of it becoming pucca leave alone dreaming of such luxuries as electricity and clean water. Illiteracy and infant mortality rates were high and jobs impossible. They say it was because unemployment was such a serious problem that when Kasturbhai Lalbhai came here in the late forties to set up his chemical factory he designed Atul in a way that it would provide as much employment as possible. His grandson, Sunil Lalbhai, is now restructuring to reduce employment in order for the factory to survive and grow. But, this story’s relevance to the rights of tribals goes beyond employment. It is also about the forest that the factory developed even as the natural forests in which the adivasis lived were being destroyed, often because of their own needs of firewood and shelter. Over the past fifty years of Atul’s existence more than 500,000 trees have been planted so that visitors joke about whether the factory is a sanctuary in disguise. A sanctuary it is. Something about the fumes that Atul’s factories generate attracts birds in vast quantities so that in the evening the trees change from green to white because of the numbers of nesting herons and other birds. So many kinds of birds have made their home in the trees outside Atul’s factories that a natural bird sanctuary has been formed and to the complete mystification of Atul’s managers they seem particular to return here to breed – a phenomenon whose causes ornithologists have not been able to more than guess at. Maybe it’s the sulphur in the atmosphere that attracts them, maybe the safety of being in a forest without predators. They do not go in such large numbers to the adivasi villages that surround Atul because what you have here are degraded forests of scrub and bramble. It is not just birds whose lives have improved because of the forest that the chemical factory has brought, but human beings as well. Atul brought electricity and piped water and jobs and the highway now makes it possible to go to Mumbai in three hours and Ahmedabad in not much longer. The local adivasi population has taken advantage of these developments to bring modernity into their lives and to move away from their earlier hunter-gatherer existence. The Atul way combining modernity with environmental concern is the way forward, not the tribal forest rights bill that the government is contemplating. If it becomes law, 20 million adivasi families will be given 2.5 hectares of forest land each so that they can continue being hunter-gatherers. It should shame us that this is all that India, the future economic superpower, can offer its most desperate citizens in the 21st century. It should shame those who rule us that they have been able to do so little by way of development in nearly sixty years of independence that they offer our supposedly beloved ‘tribals’ stone age living standards. But they are not ashamed; they are proud. Those who devised the bill on forest rights for tribals believe that they are rectifying a historical wrong. They know as much about history as they do about adivasi living standards, so they do not know that the forests never belonged to the adivasis but to the ruler. As Mahesh N. Buch pointed out in a brilliant article in the Indian Express (27 May 2005), ‘The tribals were deprived of their land in the valleys and on the plateaus in the sixteenth century and thereafter. They were not deprived of forest land as is being touted. If justice is to be done to the tribals it is not two and a half hectares per person of reserved forest land which must be allotted. It must be two and a half hectares of cultivated land in the valleys which must be taken away from the present bhoomiswamis and made over to the tribals.’ Mahesh Buch is chairman of the National Centre for Human Settlement and Environment in Bhopal and has written one of the few sensible articles on the tribal rights bill. For the most part it is the leftist and pseudo noble savage view that, alas, has prevailed. Typical is this letter I received in response to my attack on the bill in my column. ‘Tavleen’s description of the tribal lifestyle could be apt if you squint one eye. Sure – infant mortality is high, women frequently don’t own more than one sari, and live in minuscule mud huts, but if you transplant these people to an urban scenario, they won’t last a day. They manage to survive because they can forage – hunt rats, mongooses, monitor lizards in the rice fields, fish in the ponds, earn some money working at the local rice mill, digging trenches, etc. – skills that are totally useless in an urban landscape.’ In other words let the adivasis live like savages because after all they, poor things, have always been and will always be savages. For you and I the wonders of internet, air travel, education, health care, refrigerators and air-conditioning. For adivasis, the Stone Age. This kind of view is typical of the leftist political thought that deprives whole sections of Indian society of the basic comforts of the 21st century in the name of the ‘people’. This is the real historical wrong. This is where change is required but as the Sonia-Manmohan government is in the clutches of leftist thinkers, politicians and activists, this dangerous bill could easily become law before the year is over without doing anything to improve the lives of the adivasis. Those who have drafted the bill claim that ‘not an inch’ of forest land will be disturbed and that all that the law will do is legitimize a situation that already exists. The ‘tribals’ they hope to endow are already living in the forests, they claim, and since they are already cultivating inside them, the law will make no difference at all. This is typical of the sort of view that emanates from the denizens of South and North Block, most of whom have a telescopic view of what India really looks like. If they would step out of their offices and wander the land a bit they would notice that adivasis are often willing helpers of poachers and timber mafias. They are usually too poor not to be. So once they become owners of the forests it is only a matter of time before they will be used by these predators as tools in the destruction of the forests. Those who believe all the baloney about how adivasis have traditionally protected the forest should go and see what happened to the forests in the districts of Dhar and Jhabua in Madhya Pradesh. I was there in 1987 to cover the drought and after driving miles and miles through a landscape of denuded, khaki hills I remember stopping in a small town to ask local officials what had happened to the trees. They said they had been cut by the adivasis at the instigation of a socialist party that gave them a slogan that went something like ‘jhaad hamarey, zameen hamari’. The trees and the land belong to us. Well, by that year the land may still have done but there were no trees left and the enduring image I have of that journey is of adivasi women in colourful skirts walking for hours to collect their daily supplies of water. The tribal rights bill is in my view an extension of that socialist slogan and will be far more destructive. Once legal rights to forest land are handed out how long will it take before 20 million adivasi families double and treble? Is this not what happens in our cities whenever it comes to legalizing slums? In any case there will be natural growth of the adivasi population as the years go by and once they have been given forest land rights which prime minister would ever dare take them back again? Once V.P. Singh forced the Mandal Commission report down our throats has any political party dared oppose reservations for other backward castes? If we are to save our forests from certain destruction the bill must be stopped now. The prime minister and Sonia Gandhi will not be forgiven by history if under pressure from misguided leftists and dubious activists they go ahead with making this unforgivable law. Leftist opinion, as usual dominant in the media, takes the human rights high ground. Poor tribals, deprived of their only means of survival. This is rubbish. It is not about survival and it is not about preserving a ‘way of life’. Most adivasis do not have a way of life. They live in appalling conditions and it is wrong that they should have to. Instead of wasting time making stupid, dangerous laws the government should come up with a plan that would bring schools, hospitals, electricity and jobs at double the normal speed in adivasi areas. Television itself acts as a vital engine of change and should be used for purposes of literacy in areas too poor to build the schools. There already is a policy decision to give tax breaks to industries ready to set up in backward areas. This policy needs to be strengthened so that thousands of Atuls come up in the backwaters. There is a view that one of the reasons why the government is trying to push the law through is because of a desperate hope that it will help deal with the Naxalite problem. If this is true, and judging by the support the bill appears to have from the Home Ministry it could well be, then we are heading into dangerous political as well as environmental waters. Surely, the best way to deal with the Naxalite problem is to bring roads, development, urbanization? Sending more and more people back to the land is indicative of a country that has given up the idea of bringing prosperity through creating wealth rather than distributing it. Distributing without creating was the old Indian way. It failed. If land reforms had worked then why is there not enough cultivable land to distribute to the adivasis? Why does it have to be forest land? The idea is typical of the muddle-headed, leftist nonsense that is finding its way into most of this government’s policies. Another example is the employment guarantee scheme which seeks to guarantee a hundred days of employment to every family below the poverty line. Sounds good on paper but think for a minute about implementation and you immediately come up with the same leaky delivery systems that have failed to deliver other anti-poverty relief. Below Poverty Line cards are distributed by sarpanches so they go more often than not to their supporters. I was sickened to travel through villages in Bihar last year in which dalits lived in little shacks of mud and thatch but had no benefits from anti-poverty schemes because the BPL cards had been given to the upper castes by the upper caste panchayats. If the government pushes through its employment guarantee scheme the same thing will almost certainly happen. Instead of this kind of meaningless and expensive tokenism what needs to be done is to order a thorough revamp of rural delivery systems. We should begin by abolishing the post of Collector. This is a colonial post that should have no meaning in a decolonized country but so ineffective have we been at administrative reform that no government has begun to even consider the possibility that the rot in rural India stems from the Collector. He sits, usually in the biggest house in town, on a delivery network that is rotten to the core. The central government alone spends more than Rs 40,000 crore annually on anti-poverty programmes that are supposed to help communities like the adivasis and dalits. Has anyone examined where the money has gone? If we did we might find that were the money spent where it was meant to be there would be no poor adivasis left. We should have realized by now that paternalistic governance does not work, that it has never worked. In my opinion the tribal rights bill is of a piece with this kind of paternalistic governance. Someone sitting in distant Delhi with a map as his grassroots research has decided that the way to help our poor adivasis is to give the forests to them. Just like in the past we gave cattle to dalits living in villages in which there was no grazing grounds and money for fish farming to villages in which there were no lakes. Just like the public toilet scheme in Rajasthan has built toilets in the middle of village squares opposite schools so that children grew up thinking it is normal for the air they breathe to reek of sewage. One would think that after so many failures our mighty bureaucrats would have learned some lessons. If nothing else at least the lesson of humility. While getting the government’s reasons for giving adivasis forest land I discovered that this is far from true. The official I spoke to in the Prime Minister’s Office was so certain that what he was doing was right that it was impossible for him to see that schemes devised in temperature controlled South Block looked quite different when they got to the real India. Not only was he cocooned from the real India but from the politics of real politicians as well. He refused to consider the possibility that the idea of the bill could have originated from a political party that might be thinking not of adivasi welfare so much as adivasi votes. Personally, I am all for local communities being involved in the preservation of our forests but this will not happen unless we involve whole communities and not just small sections like the adivasis or the dalits. Whole villages need to be involved and creating an awareness of the importance of conservation should start at the level of the village school. When the average village child understands that the forest is being preserved, not just for the benefit of tigers and elephants but for the benefit of human beings, you will not need forest guards or adivasis to take charge of the forests. Sadly, we are aeons away from this kind of awareness because no government has so far taken more than a token interest in preserving our forests. Now we have a token interest in the welfare of adivasis through this dangerous and destructive bill. It will do nothing for the adivasis and everything to ensure that in another twenty years there will be no forests left in India. Manmohan Singh needs to think seriously about what he is doing or history will remember him as a prime minister who committed wilful harm against this country, not as someone whose heart bled for the adivasis. From parvinderster at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 18:08:18 2010 From: parvinderster at gmail.com (Parvinder Singh) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:08:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Political Economy of Contemporary Agrarian Crisis: The Way Forward? Speakers: Prabhat Patnaik, Issa Shivji, Paris Yeros and P.V Rajagopal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Public Lecture on * *Political Economy of Contemporary Agrarian Crisis: The Way Forward?* * * *Chair: Sam Moyo* *Speakers: Prabhat Patnaik, Issa Shivji, Paris Yeros and P.V Rajagopal* * * * * * * * * * * *Dated: *Friday, 19 November 2010 *Time:* 5PM onwards *Venue:* Ground Floor, India Islamic Cultural Centre, Lodhi Road, New Delhi * * _______________________ *Note: *Before the session closes, a short documentary film made by Ritu Dutta supported by Ekta Parishad will be released From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 19:32:27 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 19:32:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lies about Tribal Rights and leftist propaganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Samvit, How are we translate convictions in this forum of someone who is a non tribal: "It is my conviction that if the draft Scheduled Tribes (Recognition of Forest Rights) Bill becomes law then its main achievement will be the destruction of our forests and not the betterment of adivasi living standards." Based on a conviction of a non tribal, who selects, of all places, Atul in South Gujarat as a model, then it becomes very easy for me people like me to post examples of good governance. But if i were to ignore these activists' and left wing intellectuals' convictions if not concerns, all I am left with are good examples of governance, PR stunts by various government departments, PR stunts of political parties and generally a lot of lies being told to the people in the name of administration. At least, here what you term is a propaganda consistently points out the flaws. Very logical flaws within the governance and principles for which a state stands. Don't you find it ironical that Atul till recently was counted as one of the most polluted industrial clusters in South Gujarat. How did the author ignore neighbouring Sarigam in Valsad district, where 50 odd chemical units were shut after a team of Sardar Vallabhbhai National Institute of Technology (SVNIT) found that these units did not even follow the basic emission norms prescribed by Gujarat Pollution Control Board? Dont you think this statement: "Someone sitting in distant Delhi with a map as his grassroots research has decided that the way to help our poor adivasis is to give the forests to them" applies to the author of the piece when she selects Atul as an example for "Lies about Tribal Rights and leftist propaganda", when she could have driven a little north upwards to Devgadh Baria in time and space to witness how stick wielding forest officials emerged in jeeps and drove out two adivasi farmers till villagers especially women surrounded the forest office for two days? How when the policy empowers the basic unit of governance, the gram sabha to allot the land to the adivasi is increasingly subverted by the forest and the revenue department in alloting these lands? It has been said that gram sabha becomes a den of corruption if such powers are given to them. That means the intelligentsia, the critiques do not trust the people of the country. They continue to hound the adivasis, the dalits while extolling the local self government schemes of higher caste villages. A certain section of people namely the adivasis or the dalits are not trustworthy but someone who planned the toilets in a caste conflict ridden Rajasthan village is a worthy of a praise. A certain section of this intelligentsia, with due respects to Tavleen Singh, would continue to tell the people that trust a government. Trust the state, and the corporations that run it. The present State, however, through its policies and principles (and through its action), because there are people who still are really thinking, in what I call the Gandhian lines, are empowering the gram sabhas which could self sufficiently discharge its duties without having to rely on a larger behemoth such as the district level committee. Yes, even I have a belief. I trust the creative imagination of a Bhil woman from Dahod more than the bureaucrat who is posted over there to develop her own village. I dont know why I find that bureaucrat just doing his job like how i discharge my duties in an urban scape, while the Bhil woman's hand embroidery is more appealing and more real to me. IT is sad to witness the amount of mistrust that we, the people of media made India have for the adivasis and the reliance on police to protect our streets, and forest department to protect our sanctuaries. Perhaps this mistrust in people makes call certain conditions (of tribals) as appalling, while certain discrimination by the state as working towards "development" and "modernity" "We should have realized by now that paternalistic governance does not work, that it has never worked. In my opinion the tribal rights bill is of a piece with this kind of paternalistic" Isn' t this the reason why adivasis are saying: ‘jhaad hamarey, zameen hamari’. How did the author ignore that they also plant trees? Or was it one drive across the Khaki Hills that revealed her the plight of trees? Did the trees speak to her? But that happened to me also, when I went travelling through parched lands of adivasi dominated Panchmahals last year during the winters last year, only to witness the greenery after the monsoons. That also reminded me of the droughts of Namib Desert in Africa when it kills every living thing while some tribes, apparently staying in the mud houses as opposed to the sky scrapers in the so called appalling condition dig up roots from the sand and quench their thirst. And when it rains, the pelicans come back chasing the clouds while during the start of the dry season, the newly hatched pelican chicks die but adults are left with no option but to leave them behind. Yes this is from a movie that I saw but I think the film maker witnessed the destructive and the creative ways of nature. Perhaps he did not want to question the motives of the forces at work and captured the Namib Desert for years to understand what the cycle was. The only thing missing in that narrative was perhaps prejudice, as far as I can recall. Thanks Anupam On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Samvit wrote: > Lies about tribal rights > > TAVLEEN SINGH > http://www.india-seminar.com/2005/552/552%20tavleen%20singh.htm > back to issue > > AT around the time the media discovered the tribal rights > bill, I happened to visit an industrial settlement called Atul, on the > banks of the Par river just about where Maharashtra ends and Gujarat > begins. It was a fortuitous coincidence because Atul is an excellent > example of how the lives of adivasis can be improved without needing > to sacrifice the last of our forests to their well-being. It is my > conviction that if the draft Scheduled Tribes (Recognition of Forest > Rights) Bill becomes law then its main achievement will be the > destruction of our forests and not the betterment of adivasi living > standards. > > I drove to Atul from Mumbai on one of Atal Behari > Vajpayee’s new highways; a journey that till last year took six hours > now takes three. In that time you move from India’s cosmopolitan > commercial capital to a district that till recently was, despite being > on a national highway, an adivasi backwater. Local people remember > that till ten years ago, when the 21st century began to creep in > through telephones, roads and television, the average adivasi lived > the life of a hunter-gatherer. He collected and sold forest produce > and this brought him barely enough to buy a loincloth for himself and > a cheap sari for his wife. Home was a mud hut without the hope of it > becoming pucca leave alone dreaming of such luxuries as electricity > and clean water. Illiteracy and infant mortality rates were high and > jobs impossible. > > They say it was because unemployment was such a serious > problem that when Kasturbhai Lalbhai came here in the late forties to > set up his chemical factory he designed Atul in a way that it would > provide as much employment as possible. His grandson, Sunil Lalbhai, > is now restructuring to reduce employment in order for the factory to > survive and grow. But, this story’s relevance to the rights of tribals > goes beyond employment. It is also about the forest that the factory > developed even as the natural forests in which the adivasis lived were > being destroyed, often because of their own needs of firewood and > shelter. Over the past fifty years of Atul’s existence more than > 500,000 trees have been planted so that visitors joke about whether > the factory is a sanctuary in disguise. > > A sanctuary it is. Something about the fumes that Atul’s > factories generate attracts birds in vast quantities so that in the > evening the trees change from green to white because of the numbers of > nesting herons and other birds. > > > > So many kinds of birds have made their home in the trees > outside Atul’s factories that a natural bird sanctuary has been formed > and to the complete mystification of Atul’s managers they seem > particular to return here to breed – a phenomenon whose causes > ornithologists have not been able to more than guess at. Maybe it’s > the sulphur in the atmosphere that attracts them, maybe the safety of > being in a forest without predators. They do not go in such large > numbers to the adivasi villages that surround Atul because what you > have here are degraded forests of scrub and bramble. > > It is not just birds whose lives have improved because of > the forest that the chemical factory has brought, but human beings as > well. Atul brought electricity and piped water and jobs and the > highway now makes it possible to go to Mumbai in three hours and > Ahmedabad in not much longer. The local adivasi population has taken > advantage of these developments to bring modernity into their lives > and to move away from their earlier hunter-gatherer existence. > > > > The Atul way combining modernity with environmental > concern is the way forward, not the tribal forest rights bill that the > government is contemplating. If it becomes law, 20 million adivasi > families will be given 2.5 hectares of forest land each so that they > can continue being hunter-gatherers. It should shame us that this is > all that India, the future economic superpower, can offer its most > desperate citizens in the 21st century. It should shame those who rule > us that they have been able to do so little by way of development in > nearly sixty years of independence that they offer our supposedly > beloved ‘tribals’ stone age living standards. But they are not > ashamed; they are proud. Those who devised the bill on forest rights > for tribals believe that they are rectifying a historical wrong. They > know as much about history as they do about adivasi living standards, > so they do not know that the forests never belonged to the adivasis > but to the ruler. > > As Mahesh N. Buch pointed out in a brilliant article in > the Indian Express (27 May 2005), ‘The tribals were deprived of their > land in the valleys and on the plateaus in the sixteenth century and > thereafter. They were not deprived of forest land as is being touted. > If justice is to be done to the tribals it is not two and a half > hectares per person of reserved forest land which must be allotted. It > must be two and a half hectares of cultivated land in the valleys > which must be taken away from the present bhoomiswamis and made over > to the tribals.’ > > Mahesh Buch is chairman of the National Centre for Human > Settlement and Environment in Bhopal and has written one of the few > sensible articles on the tribal rights bill. For the most part it is > the leftist and pseudo noble savage view that, alas, has prevailed. > Typical is this letter I received in response to my attack on the bill > in my column. ‘Tavleen’s description of the tribal lifestyle could be > apt if you squint one eye. Sure – infant mortality is high, women > frequently don’t own more than one sari, and live in minuscule mud > huts, but if you transplant these people to an urban scenario, they > won’t last a day. They manage to survive because they can forage – > hunt rats, mongooses, monitor lizards in the rice fields, fish in the > ponds, earn some money working at the local rice mill, digging > trenches, etc. – skills that are totally useless in an urban > landscape.’ > > > > In other words let the adivasis live like savages because > after all they, poor things, have always been and will always be > savages. For you and I the wonders of internet, air travel, education, > health care, refrigerators and air-conditioning. For adivasis, the > Stone Age. This kind of view is typical of the leftist political > thought that deprives whole sections of Indian society of the basic > comforts of the 21st century in the name of the ‘people’. This is the > real historical wrong. This is where change is required but as the > Sonia-Manmohan government is in the clutches of leftist thinkers, > politicians and activists, this dangerous bill could easily become law > before the year is over without doing anything to improve the lives of > the adivasis. > > Those who have drafted the bill claim that ‘not an inch’ > of forest land will be disturbed and that all that the law will do is > legitimize a situation that already exists. The ‘tribals’ they hope to > endow are already living in the forests, they claim, and since they > are already cultivating inside them, the law will make no difference > at all. > > > > This is typical of the sort of view that emanates from the > denizens of South and North Block, most of whom have a telescopic view > of what India really looks like. > > If they would step out of their offices and wander the > land a bit they would notice that adivasis are often willing helpers > of poachers and timber mafias. They are usually too poor not to be. So > once they become owners of the forests it is only a matter of time > before they will be used by these predators as tools in the > destruction of the forests. Those who believe all the baloney about > how adivasis have traditionally protected the forest should go and see > what happened to the forests in the districts of Dhar and Jhabua in > Madhya Pradesh. > > I was there in 1987 to cover the drought and after driving > miles and miles through a landscape of denuded, khaki hills I remember > stopping in a small town to ask local officials what had happened to > the trees. They said they had been cut by the adivasis at the > instigation of a socialist party that gave them a slogan that went > something like ‘jhaad hamarey, zameen hamari’. The trees and the land > belong to us. Well, by that year the land may still have done but > there were no trees left and the enduring image I have of that journey > is of adivasi women in colourful skirts walking for hours to collect > their daily supplies of water. > > The tribal rights bill is in my view an extension of that > socialist slogan and will be far more destructive. Once legal rights > to forest land are handed out how long will it take before 20 million > adivasi families double and treble? Is this not what happens in our > cities whenever it comes to legalizing slums? In any case there will > be natural growth of the adivasi population as the years go by and > once they have been given forest land rights which prime minister > would ever dare take them back again? Once V.P. Singh forced the > Mandal Commission report down our throats has any political party > dared oppose reservations for other backward castes? > > If we are to save our forests from certain destruction the > bill must be stopped now. The prime minister and Sonia Gandhi will not > be forgiven by history if under pressure from misguided leftists and > dubious activists they go ahead with making this unforgivable law. > Leftist opinion, as usual dominant in the media, takes the human > rights high ground. Poor tribals, deprived of their only means of > survival. This is rubbish. > > > > It is not about survival and it is not about preserving a > ‘way of life’. Most adivasis do not have a way of life. They live in > appalling conditions and it is wrong that they should have to. Instead > of wasting time making stupid, dangerous laws the government should > come up with a plan that would bring schools, hospitals, electricity > and jobs at double the normal speed in adivasi areas. Television > itself acts as a vital engine of change and should be used for > purposes of literacy in areas too poor to build the schools. > > There already is a policy decision to give tax breaks to > industries ready to set up in backward areas. This policy needs to be > strengthened so that thousands of Atuls come up in the backwaters. > There is a view that one of the reasons why the government is trying > to push the law through is because of a desperate hope that it will > help deal with the Naxalite problem. If this is true, and judging by > the support the bill appears to have from the Home Ministry it could > well be, then we are heading into dangerous political as well as > environmental waters. > > > > Surely, the best way to deal with the Naxalite problem is > to bring roads, development, urbanization? Sending more and more > people back to the land is indicative of a country that has given up > the idea of bringing prosperity through creating wealth rather than > distributing it. Distributing without creating was the old Indian way. > It failed. If land reforms had worked then why is there not enough > cultivable land to distribute to the adivasis? Why does it have to be > forest land? > > The idea is typical of the muddle-headed, leftist nonsense > that is finding its way into most of this government’s policies. > Another example is the employment guarantee scheme which seeks to > guarantee a hundred days of employment to every family below the > poverty line. > > Sounds good on paper but think for a minute about > implementation and you immediately come up with the same leaky > delivery systems that have failed to deliver other anti-poverty > relief. Below Poverty Line cards are distributed by sarpanches so they > go more often than not to their supporters. I was sickened to travel > through villages in Bihar last year in which dalits lived in little > shacks of mud and thatch but had no benefits from anti-poverty schemes > because the BPL cards had been given to the upper castes by the upper > caste panchayats. If the government pushes through its employment > guarantee scheme the same thing will almost certainly happen. > > Instead of this kind of meaningless and expensive tokenism > what needs to be done is to order a thorough revamp of rural delivery > systems. We should begin by abolishing the post of Collector. This is > a colonial post that should have no meaning in a decolonized country > but so ineffective have we been at administrative reform that no > government has begun to even consider the possibility that the rot in > rural India stems from the Collector. > > He sits, usually in the biggest house in town, on a > delivery network that is rotten to the core. The central government > alone spends more than Rs 40,000 crore annually on anti-poverty > programmes that are supposed to help communities like the adivasis and > dalits. Has anyone examined where the money has gone? If we did we > might find that were the money spent where it was meant to be there > would be no poor adivasis left. > > > > We should have realized by now that paternalistic > governance does not work, that it has never worked. In my opinion the > tribal rights bill is of a piece with this kind of paternalistic > governance. Someone sitting in distant Delhi with a map as his > grassroots research has decided that the way to help our poor adivasis > is to give the forests to them. Just like in the past we gave cattle > to dalits living in villages in which there was no grazing grounds and > money for fish farming to villages in which there were no lakes. Just > like the public toilet scheme in Rajasthan has built toilets in the > middle of village squares opposite schools so that children grew up > thinking it is normal for the air they breathe to reek of sewage. > > One would think that after so many failures our mighty > bureaucrats would have learned some lessons. If nothing else at least > the lesson of humility. While getting the government’s reasons for > giving adivasis forest land I discovered that this is far from true. > The official I spoke to in the Prime Minister’s Office was so certain > that what he was doing was right that it was impossible for him to see > that schemes devised in temperature controlled South Block looked > quite different when they got to the real India. > > Not only was he cocooned from the real India but from the > politics of real politicians as well. He refused to consider the > possibility that the idea of the bill could have originated from a > political party that might be thinking not of adivasi welfare so much > as adivasi votes. > > > > Personally, I am all for local communities being involved > in the preservation of our forests but this will not happen unless we > involve whole communities and not just small sections like the > adivasis or the dalits. Whole villages need to be involved and > creating an awareness of the importance of conservation should start > at the level of the village school. When the average village child > understands that the forest is being preserved, not just for the > benefit of tigers and elephants but for the benefit of human beings, > you will not need forest guards or adivasis to take charge of the > forests. Sadly, we are aeons away from this kind of awareness because > no government has so far taken more than a token interest in > preserving our forests. > > Now we have a token interest in the welfare of adivasis > through this dangerous and destructive bill. It will do nothing for > the adivasis and everything to ensure that in another twenty years > there will be no forests left in India. Manmohan Singh needs to think > seriously about what he is doing or history will remember him as a > prime minister who committed wilful harm against this country, not as > someone whose heart bled for the adivasis. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Thu Nov 18 19:47:20 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (CologneOFF) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 15:17:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Call=3A_CologneOFF_2011_-_videoart_i?= =?iso-8859-1?q?n_a_global_context?= Message-ID: <20101118151721.72D9FAD0.21DAA15@192.168.0.3> Call for entries Deadline: 1 March 2011 -------------------------------------------- Cologne International Videoart Festival is inviting film and video makers all over the world to participate in "CologneOFF 2011 - videoart in a global context" an unique festival project to be realised simultaneously in physical & virtual space directed and curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne, starting on 1 January 2011 and lasting until 31 December 2011. It's goal is to show during one year at many venues around the globe the diversity of the creative potential of "art and moving images" transported via the global medium of "video". The videos can be submitted only online. Selected works will be featured on CologneOFF individually online during 2011 and will become later in 2011 the 7th edition of CologneOFF - Cologne International Videoart Festival. CologneOFF 2011 is inviting creators in the field of "art and moving images" - this may be experimental forms of film and video art - to submit up to 3 works ---> Entry form and regulations --> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2729 -------------------------------------------- CologneOFF - Cologne International Videoart Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org powered by artvideoKOELN the curatorial initiative "art & moving images" http://video.mediaartcologne.org 2011 (at) coff.newmediafest.org -------------------------------------------- From subhachops at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 20:30:31 2010 From: subhachops at gmail.com (Subhash) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:30:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Now, a saffron TV channel Message-ID: Now, a TV channel from saffron stable Harie, Nov 18, 2010, 05.28am IST HYDERABAD: If TV viewers in the state thought that there is an overkill of news channels projecting the political news and viewpoints of leading politicians and parties, the field might get a little more crowded in a few months time. Convinced that the idiot box is the route to political success and growth, state BJP president G Kishan Reddy too is all set to go live 24/7. Kishan Reddy told TOI that a TV news channel is on the cards but clarified that it will not be the mouthpiece of the BJP but more to project his agenda though it will be in sync with the party's to a large extent. "The channel is on course but still a few months away as there are several loose ends that needs to be tied up," he said. What sounds interesting is the appetite for risk by the young BJP president to project himself as a potential leader and venture into a domain that continuously bleeds owners revenue. That too at a time when the public is already exposed to 32 local TV channels. The minimum amount required to launch a channel would be about Rs 16 crore and can go up to about Rs 50 crore with the monthly operational cost hovering in the range of Rs 2 crore to Rs 10 crore. Kishan Reddy, however, was not willing to reveal the start-up or operational cost of his channel. It is not known whether the Reddy brothers from neighbouring Karnataka would have anything to do with the channel. Separatist party, Telangana Rashtra Samiti, has a dedicated news channel 'Raj News' to propagate the cause of Telangana, while other channels like Zee 24 Gantalu and HMTV are suspected of having a leaning towards Telangana. Though it supposedly began as a Congress mouthpiece, Sakshi TV became the voice of Kadapa MP Y S Jaganmohan Reddy. Other news channels like TV5, iNews and NTV too have a pro-Jagan slant. Besides active backing of channels like ETV, Mahaa TV and ABN Andhra Jyothy, the Telugu Desam Party has an exclusive channel in Studio N. Interestingly, Gemini News, owned by Sun Network, and the top-rated Telugu news channel TV9, for now, are not directly linked to any particular political party in the state. Praja Rajyam Party president K Chiranjeevi has a television channel of his own, Maa TV, but has abandoned its news division. It, however, promotes movies of Chiranjeevi and his family members in a big way. Given such background, Kishan Reddy's move to launch a TV channel doesn't really come as a big surprise, though it arouses enough curiosity on the kind of flavour it would adopt to make an entry with a bang. The BJP chief's aides said he has been working overtime to rope in like-minded people to make the channel a reality. "Kishan is testing the waters, especially when the Telangana movement has reached a critical phase. We also want to reach out to the people of Telangana region and spread word that BJP alone was the first political party to have made up its mind on the formation of a separate state and it was the only effective political alternative to the Congress party," an aide of the BJP president said. Read more: Now, a TV channel from saffron stable - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Now-a-TV-channel-from-saffron-stable/articleshow/6944901.cms#ixzz15e8MZeHw From iram at sarai.net Thu Nov 18 22:40:43 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 23:10:43 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] FWD: Call for Applications for Digital Rules & Regs with VIDEOCLUB Message-ID: <4CE55E13.3050006@sarai.net> Hello - The following is a open call for a digital art online residency for consideration to be posted on Sarai's announcements list. The producing companies are based in Brighton UK, the residency is open to artists working in digital practice and legally able to work in Britain. In brief... *videoclub* welcomes applications from artists working in digital art and wishing to explore their practice through developing new work. *Digital Rules and Regs* (DR&R) is an online residency for two artists, lasting for two months: 14 March - 13 May 2011. *Deadline for applications: 5pm Friday 17th December 2010*. For full programme information please visit www.rulesandregs.org Full info... *Call for Applications for Digital Rules & Regs **with VIDEOCLUB* 14 March - 13 May 2011 THE PROGRAMME: Participating artists will develop new work over a nine-week period in early 2011. After artists have agreed to participate, rules will be devised in response to their practices and announced at the beginning of the development period (Monday 14th March). Both artists will work to the same set of rules and must create new work in response to these rules. Artists should not apply with a specific or existing project in mind. Digital Rules and Regs (DR&R) will take place online, using the web as a creative platform and tool; artists will be required to have a substantial digital-based practice to take part. The final outcome of the project will be web-based final artworks or works in progress, and will be accessible to the public to experience / see / interact with through a website / online means. DR&R is primarily a development opportunity for making new work, rather than an exhibition or showcase; the primary goal is to explore artistic practice. During the development period artists will be supported by videoclub curator Jamie Wyld. videoclub’s current curatorial strand is based upon notions of Surveillance. videoclub is particularly interested in receiving applications from artists with some experience of developing creative work with surveillance technology. DR&R with videoclub is the pilot online implementation of the Rules and Regs development model. Public access to the artists’ creative processes will be highlighted, with artists asked to keep public blogs and post work-in-progress. VIDEOCLUB: videoclub produces development and exhibition opportunities for artists working with film, video and digital practices; providing opportunities for the public to see, experience and engage in discourse about artists’ work. videoclub works with a range of organisations to show artists’ work, and has often worked in partnership to deliver its programmes of work, including working with White Night Brighton and Hove, Northwest Film Forum (Seattle, USA) and A Wall is a Screen (Hamburg, Germany). Artists we have shown include: Ben Rivers, Semiconductor, Laure Prouvost, Mat Collishaw, Gary Barber and Daria Martin. TIME COMMITMENT AND SCHEDULE: o *Deadline for applications: 5pm Friday 17th December 2010.* o Shortlisted artists’ interviews: Interviews will be conducted via videoconference on 27 January, 2011. o Artists selected and participation confirmed by: Friday 11th February. o Project launch & Rules announced: Monday 14th March, 2011. o Development period: Monday 14th March – Friday 13th May, 2011 During this period, artists will be expected to: o spend a minimum total of one day per week engaged with the project o maintain an ongoing dialogue with the curator and their fellow artist o open their creative processes to the public, through participatory practice, blog and/or work-in-progress postings, etc. APPLICATION PROCESS AND FEES: This programme is open to artists able to work in the U.K. Each artist will receive: o a fee of £900 (50% on programme launch day, 50% within 30 days of completed evaluation) o production support of up to £100 (reimbursed) To apply, please: o Email the following to *apply-digital at rulesandregs.org * o CV, contact information and précis of artistic practice o a short (up to one side A4) statement as to why you wish to participate in the project o if desired, weblink(s) featuring documentation of artistic practice *Applications will only be accepted via email.* Please include your name and “Digital Rules and Regs application” in the subject line of your email. Please ensure any email attachments total less than 5mb. For informal questions, please contact videoclub curator Jamie Wyld at info at videoclub.org.uk This project is a co-production of videoclub and Rules and Regs and is managed and curated by Jamie Wyld. For more information, please visit: www.videoclub.org.uk and www.rulesandregs.org With Thanks & Best Wishes, Seth Kriebel Director *Rules and Regs* 07974 937 479 seth at rulesandregs.org www.rulesandregs.org From leonardo.electronic.almanac at gmail.com Sat Nov 13 00:06:52 2010 From: leonardo.electronic.almanac at gmail.com (Lanfranco Aceti) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:36:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] ISEA2011 Istanbul Call for Papers, Panels, Workshops and Artworks Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The Call for Papers, Artworks, Panels and Workshops for ISEA2011 Istanbul http://www.ISEA2011ISTANBUL.org is available at this link http://ow.ly/36HW0 The deadline for submission is December 01, 2010. In order to stay in touch You can subscribe to ISEA2011 Istanbul and Leonardo Electronic Almanac Newsletters following this link http://ow.ly/36I5H The newsletters will provide you with information on upcoming projects and events of ISEA2011 Istanbul as well as on the Leonardo Electronic Almanac http://www.LEOALMANAC.org which is the publication venue of the conference proceedings and selected essays. Please feel free to disseminate widely. With kind regards, Lanfranco Aceti Visiting Professor Goldsmiths College, London Associate Professor in Contemporary Art and Digital Culture Sabanci University From chandra.ka at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 15:17:53 2010 From: chandra.ka at gmail.com (Chandrashekara K A) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:17:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [alt-ed-india] Shabnam Hashmi's article on Blue Mountain School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CDFB049.9080406@gmail.com> Very touching. I am dying to know the methods they adopted at the school. May be Hindu would elicit a counterpart article from the teacher(s) at The Blue Mountain about their version of the story giving us that insight. --chandra On 11/14/2010 12:19 PM, Chintan Girish Modi wrote: > > From http://www.thehindu.com/arts/magazine/article881896.ece > > > I found my daughter again > > By Shabnam Hashmi From againe at gmx.com Wed Nov 17 18:48:39 2010 From: againe at gmx.com (againe at gmx.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:18:39 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] LONDON EVENTS: student struggles, capitalist crisis, syndicalism Message-ID: <20101117133242.130630@gmx.com> Please publicise the following events widely, thanks: *Hillel Ticktin talks on: THE CRISIS AND THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM TODAY* SATURDAY 4 DECEMBER, 1.30pm. Marx Memorial Library, 37a Clerkenwell Green, London EC1, near Farringdon tube. "The crisis is not simply a periodic crisis, but a crisis in both the strategy of capitalism and its structure, and Keynesians are not addressing these issues, whereas the right, consciously or unconsciously, is trying to come to terms with the real underlying political economic problems of capitalism … Sections of capital have decided to fight to the bitter end in order to inflict an epoch making defeat of the working class ... However one has to wonder whether the bourgeoisie has a death wish ... The cuts can only educate a whole new generation of the population of the need to change the capitalist system ... The contemporary form of the ideology of capitalism is now so threadbare that only a masochist can support it." (Articles by Ticktin can be found at libcom.org and here http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004129 ) * Picket Nick Clegg in Camden 6pm, Tuesday 23 November, Kings Place Hall, 190 York Way, N1. No tuition fees! No to Workfare! * National Walkout Against Fees *WALKOUT OF YOUR SCHOOL, COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY NEXT WEDNESDAY, 24 NOVEMBER* Walkouts took place at hundreds of schools and colleges against the Iraq war in 2003, against 'third world' debt in 2005, and several colleges walked out against cuts in 2009-10. Organisers suggest: 'Download national leaflet at anticuts.com http://anticuts.com/ , writing on the details of your local meet-up point, photocopy and hand it out. Use email, facebook, texts, phone calls to advertise the time and place of your protest.' * Coalition of Resistance National Organising Conference 10am-5pm Saturday November 27, Camden Centre, Bidborough St, London WC1 Organisers say: 'The conference will hear speakers from struggles in Greece, Spain, France and from delegates from the anti-cuts and anti-privatisation groups springing up in this country. There will be workshops and the opportunity for all to have their voices heard.' * A Commune http://thecommune.co.uk/ meeting on Monday 29th November will look at interwar European syndicalism, and on Monday 13th December Sheila Cohen will talk about the 1970s experience, which Eric Hobsbawm called 'syndicalism without syndicalists'. Bothmeetings arefrom 7pm at the Artillery Arms, 102 Bunhill Row, near Old St. tube. * Critique Conference http://www.critiquejournal.net/conf2007.html STALINISM AND ITS DESTRUCTIVE LEGACY http://example.com/?1290000087108 /What is Stalinism? Was capitalism stabilised by the end of Stalinism and the Cold War? Why is it so difficult to defeat Stalinism?/ SATURDAY, 26 FEBRUARY 2011 9am-5pm, rm. H216, Connaught Hse, London School of Economics, Houghton St., Holborn tube * See http://london.indymedia.org/events for further London events. From ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de Fri Nov 19 00:42:26 2010 From: ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Britta Ohm) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:12:26 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Now, a saffron TV channel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013ECF52-404A-473B-9F36-91845D5D3AED@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Thanks for posting this, Subhash, how very interesting to see how open propaganda is not contradictory but inherent to the (questionable) democracy of economic liberalism. Am 18.11.2010 um 16:00 schrieb Subhash: > Now, a TV channel from saffron stable > Harie, Nov 18, 2010, 05.28am IST > > HYDERABAD: If TV viewers in the state thought that there is an > overkill of news channels projecting the political news and viewpoints > of leading politicians and parties, the field might get a little more > crowded in a few months time. > > Convinced that the idiot box is the route to political success and > growth, state BJP president G Kishan Reddy too is all set to go live > 24/7. > > Kishan Reddy told TOI that a TV news channel is on the cards but > clarified that it will not be the mouthpiece of the BJP but more to > project his agenda though it will be in sync with the party's to a > large extent. "The channel is on course but still a few months away as > there are several loose ends that needs to be tied up," he said. > > What sounds interesting is the appetite for risk by the young BJP > president to project himself as a potential leader and venture into a > domain that continuously bleeds owners revenue. That too at a time > when the public is already exposed to 32 local TV channels. The > minimum amount required to launch a channel would be about Rs 16 crore > and can go up to about Rs 50 crore with the monthly operational cost > hovering in the range of Rs 2 crore to Rs 10 crore. Kishan Reddy, > however, was not willing to reveal the start-up or operational cost of > his channel. It is not known whether the Reddy brothers from > neighbouring Karnataka would have anything to do with the channel. > > Separatist party, Telangana Rashtra Samiti, has a dedicated news > channel 'Raj News' to propagate the cause of Telangana, while other > channels like Zee 24 Gantalu and HMTV are suspected of having a > leaning towards Telangana. > Though it supposedly began as a Congress mouthpiece, Sakshi TV became > the voice of Kadapa MP Y S Jaganmohan Reddy. Other news channels like > TV5, iNews and NTV too have a pro-Jagan slant. > > Besides active backing of channels like ETV, Mahaa TV and ABN Andhra > Jyothy, the Telugu Desam Party has an exclusive channel in Studio N. > Interestingly, Gemini News, owned by Sun Network, and the top-rated > Telugu news channel TV9, for now, are not directly linked to any > particular political party in the state. Praja Rajyam Party president > K Chiranjeevi has a television channel of his own, Maa TV, but has > abandoned its news division. It, however, promotes movies of > Chiranjeevi and his family members in a big way. > > Given such background, Kishan Reddy's move to launch a TV channel > doesn't really come as a big surprise, though it arouses enough > curiosity on the kind of flavour it would adopt to make an entry with > a bang. > > The BJP chief's aides said he has been working overtime to rope in > like-minded people to make the channel a reality. > > "Kishan is testing the waters, especially when the Telangana movement > has reached a critical phase. We also want to reach out to the people > of Telangana region and spread word that BJP alone was the first > political party to have made up its mind on the formation of a > separate state and it was the only effective political alternative to > the Congress party," an aide of the BJP president said. > > Read more: Now, a TV channel from saffron stable - The Times of India > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Now-a-TV-channel-from-saffron-stable/articleshow/6944901.cms#ixzz15e8MZeHw > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> --------------------------------------- Dr. Britta Ohm Institute of Social Anthropology University of Bern Laenggassstr. 49a 3012 Bern Switzerland +41-(0)31-631 8995 (main office) +41-(0)31-631 5373 (direct line) britta.ohm at anthro.unibe.ch Solmsstr. 36 10961 Berlin Germany +49-(0)30-69507155 ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de From rohitrellan at aol.in Fri Nov 19 11:53:26 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:23:26 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Competition on Short Mobile Films on Disability In-Reply-To: <581541.50260.qm@web54403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <581541.50260.qm@web54403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD55C968CAC2B5-110C-32960@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> On the World Disability Day (December 3rd), Sambhavana, an organization of disabled and nondisabled teachers and students is organizing a disability related mobile-shot films competition. The films may be concerned about various issues ranging from accessibility to social attitudes, experiences or perceptions of the disabled/about disabilities, personal achievements, education, employment and many more issues. We are looking for more subtle and nuanced representations of disability instead of rhetoric or eulogizing narrations. Amateur filmmakers, especially students from academic institutions are invited to send their entries while keeping following points in mind: The duration of the film may range from a few shots to maximum length of six minutes. The dubbing, paradubbing and voice over may be in English or Hindi only. Proper numbering also must be done. The last date of sending the entries is 27/11/10. Entries should preferably be sent through e-mail at sambhavana.group at gmail.com. Alternatively, these may be posted at the address given below: Naresh Kumar, 360, (Second Floor), Pocket 9, Sector 21, Rohini, New Delhi 86. Maximum three decent cash prizes will be given to the best entries judged by a competent jury of film makers and media practitioners. Other modalities of screening etc would be communicated after the entries reach us. Kindly send the entries along with these details: Name, Institutional affiliation, Contact (postal address, phone, e-mail). For further queries, please contact: Naresh Kumar, Mobile: 09999308530. E-mail: naresh.rhythm at gmail.com . From chintan.backups at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 12:31:52 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:31:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Needed: Research assistant for Comic Book Project Message-ID: *From Reeti Roy* http://editpub.blogspot.com/2010/11/wanted-research-assistant-for-3-6.html Wanted: Research assistant for a British Council-SCTR, JU project titled The Comic Book in India, beginning December. Duration is for three months, with a possibility of extension up to six months. The project has the following aims: To locate, collect and digitise representative samples of comic-books in major Indian languages, especially Bengali, English, Hindi, and Malayalam. The project will concentrate NOT on work which has already been published in book or series form (such as Indrajal comics or Amar Chitra Katha) but material which appeared in magazines and newspapers but have not since been published. To interview writers and artists of comic books, and compile biographical sketches To archive the above in digital form A considerable volume of material has already been digitized, and one of the chief tasks of the researcher will be to post-process the digital images. The researcher may also need to undertake fieldwork in Calcutta, and/or Delhi and Kochi. The researcher needs to have basic digital image processing skills (cropping, cleaning up images etc.). More importantly, s/he must be knowledgeable about Bengali children's literature and the Bengali comic book. The honorarium is Rs 10,000 per month plus travelling and other expenses in the case of fieldwork. Interested individuals may please contact me at offog1 at gmail.com Abhijit Gupta From appu.es at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 12:50:58 2010 From: appu.es at gmail.com (Appu Esthose Suresh) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:50:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Full transcript of Nira Radia tapes... Message-ID: http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/nation/what-kind-of-story-do-you-want On 15 June 2009, the Bombay High Court directed Mukesh Ambani’s Reliance Industries Ltd (RIL) to honour an agreement signed with Anil Ambani’s Reliance Natural Resources Ltd (RNRL) as part of a family asset division that assured the latter supply of gas from the KG basin at a discount price of $2.34 per unit, a private deal that the Supreme Court later ruled was invalid since the gas was State-owned even though RIL was the gas field’s operator. Here, Niira Radia discusses the implications of the High Court judgment with prominent journalist Vir Sanghvi “What kind of story do you want? Because this will go as Counterpoint, so it will be like most-most read...” —VIR SANGHVI DATE 20 June 2009 TIME 12:09:59 RADIA: Hi VIR: Okay, now I can talk. RADIA: I just got out of this treadmill. On this battle. I need to, I’m trying to get Mukesh to come out and talk. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: But the thing is this, we have to, if he talks, we have to carry it as is, in the sense that you know he, I think, they’re very conscious of every line and everything that goes out. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: Because it’s a battle. It’s a battle at the end of the day for him, you know. And also, whether we bring it into print. VIR: Right. RADIA: That’s the other issue. I think the… VIR: But see Anil can’t afford to give interviews because he will be asked about Amar Singh, so many things, so that the advantage Mukesh has is that he can talk and there is nothing for him to be embarrassed about. So many skeletons in Anil’s closet that he doesn’t want to clarify. If he comes on, he says, ‘Amar Singh is my close friend,’ he is fucked. If he comes on, he says, ‘I have no relations with Amar Singh,’ Amar Singh will kill him. I mean there are so many awkward things, so Anil has decided to avoid the media. Mukesh doesn’t have that prob•lem. Mukesh can talk straight, can say things. You can rehearse. You can work out a script in advance. You can go exactly according to the script. Anil can’t do any of those things, no? RADIA: Right. But we can do that, no? VIR: Yeah. RADIA:Yeah? VIR: But Mukesh has to be on board. He has to sort of realise. It has to be fully scripted. RADIA: No, that’s what I mean. I think that’s what he’s asking me. VIR: Yes, it has to be fully scripted. RADIA: He is saying is that, ‘Look Niira’, that ‘I don’t want anything extempore.’ VIR: No, it has to be fully scripted. I have to come in and do a run through with him before. RADIA: Yeah, yeah. VIR: We have to rehearse it before the cameras come in. RADIA: Yeah, yeah. VIR: Then it is worth doing. RADIA: Correct, correct. VIR: Otherwise, there is a lot at stake. RADIA: Yeah. That’s right, that’s the one point. The other thing was that when Rohit on this particular article of [inaudible] because Anil is going all out and we are going to start talking. It is not as if we are not going to start talking. But I think the challenge that I’m facing is that I think we need to set the tone. VIR: Okay. RADIA: How what has happened as far as the order is concerned is completely against national interest. VIR: Okay. RADIA: You know and even if we were to assume that they get gas or they get coal, or they get iron ore or whatever one gets. If you look at how Tatas has always gone into those areas and done something for the people even before they have been able to extract anything out of it. VIR: Right. RADIA: Here, the culture of, you know, if it’s set at a power plant in Shahpur, which Rohit will brief you, or is setting up a power plant in Dadri… One would ask a question, have you actually done anything for those people even though you are taking their land from them? I can say today you know with my hand on my heart whether it is Kalinga Nagar that we are fighting the Maoists or Singur where we fought Mamta, we continue doing work whether our plant came up or not. You know sometimes… VIR: What kind of story do you want? Because this will go as Counterpoint, so it will be like most-most read, but it can’t seem too slanted, yet it is an ideal opportunity to get all the points across. RADIA: But basically, the point is what has happened as far as the High Court is concerned is a very painful thing for the country because what is done is against national interest. VIR: Okay. RADIA: I think that’s the underlying message. VIR: Okay. That message we will do. That allocation of resources which are scarce national resources of a poor country cannot be done in this arbitrary fashion to benefit a few rich people. RADIA: That’s right. VIR: Yeah. That message we will get across, but what other points do we need to make? RADIA: I think we need to say that you know it’s a lesson for the corporate world that, you know, they need to think through whenever they want to look at this, whether they really seriously do give back to society. VIR: So I will link it to the election verdict. The fact that there has been so much Narega, that Sonia has commit•ted to including everybody, that it should be inclusive growth. It shouldn’t just benefit the few fat cats. It shouldn’t be cronyism. It shouldn’t be arbitrary. That’s how the message for this five years of Manmohan Singh should be—that you have to put an end to this kind of allocations of scarce resources on the basis of corruption and arbitrariness at the cost of the country, otherwise the country will not forgive you. RADIA: Yeah, but Vir, you have to keep in mind that he has been given the gas field by the Government to operate. He spent ten billion dollars on it. VIR: Okay. RADIA: Anil Ambani is getting the benefit without spending a cent on it… VIR: I’ll make those points, no? RADIA: Yeah. VIR: So I’ll make those points. The people, because the system is so corrupt and open to manipulation, by manipulating the system, by not paying anybody you can get hands on resources. Therefore the only way Manmohan Singh hopes to survive is to get a handle on the resources and have some kind of way of allocating them that is transparent, fair and perhaps done by him. RADIA: But there you will be attacking Mukesh only, no. VIR: Why, why, why, explain that. RADIA: You see, because a resource has been allocated to Mukesh in this case. VIR: So, what point do you want me to make? RADIA: The point I’m making is that here, the point is limited to the fact that you cannot have a High Court deciding on this. You cannot have a tribunal deciding on this. VIR: What about ministers? RADIA: Even ministers. VIR: Spectrum and co is ministers, no? RADIA: Yeah, even ministers. You want to really look at, maybe there’s an EGoM [Empowered Group of Ministers] that got set and is looking at the pricing issue, and natural resources should be decided not by any of this arbitrary mechanism. It has to be one for the country. And there should be some sort of a formula that Manmohan Singh has to... VIR: Yeah, that is the message, you know. There should be a formula by which resources will be allocated in a transparent, non-arbitrary sort of way. That has to be a message, no? RADIA: Yeah. And also, you know, going to court. VIR: That the people want resources, they have to be back to society. They have to pay the Government. They have corporate social responsibility. They have to care about the people who are going to be displaced, the people who are going to lose things. You can’t just go ahead and rape the system. RADIA: Yeah. But you want to say that you know, more importantly that here a family MoU has taken precedence over national interest, and what the judge has done… I mean you’ll have to attack the judge here because the judge has, what he’s done, he’s given preference to an MoU. He has held on to the MoU and said, ‘Okay, this had to be implemented.’ But he has forgotten what’s good, that’s why it raises a bigger constitutional issue. VIR: Which is? RADIA: Which is natural resources is really a constitutional issue. It has to do with the country and the nation. VIR: It’s not between two brothers and their fight. RADIA: It’s not and therefore the judge’s interpretation of an MoU… VIR: Yeah. RADIA: It cannot be the basis of the way how we can proceed on these sorts of issues. I mean, you have to attack the fact that the judge has only gone into the MoU. His entire judgment is on the basis of the MoU. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: And therefore a judgment between two family members cannot be how you decide the future. VIR: Okay. Let this Rohit come, let me explain to him, and I’ll talk to you and tell you what line I’m taking. RADIA: Okay. And you’ll do it for next Sunday, is it? VIR: No, no tomorrow +++ And now, a conversation on an entirely different issue. In May 2009, as coalition talks between the DMK and Congress broke down, Niira Radia was apparently involved quite actively in opening channels between the two parties through, among others, Vir Sanghvi VIR SANGHVI “I won’t get into Sonia in the short term, let me try and get through to Ahmed” DATE 22 May 2009 TIME 13:03:19 VIR: Hi Niira. RADIA: Hi Vir. Where are you, Delhi or… VIR: I’m in Jaipur. Coming back this evening. RADIA: Okay. I just wanted to… I’ve been talking to my Tamil Nadu friends. VIR: Okay. RADIA: I just need to… I don’t know whether you are in the position to get through to anyone at Congress. I just met Kani just now. VIR: Okay. RADIA: And I’ve been, you know, we re-united since yesterday. The problem is… VIR: I was supposed to meet Sonia today, but I’ve been stuck here. So, now it’s becoming tomorrow. I’ve been meeting with Rahul, but tell me? RADIA: No, I’ll tell you what---they are not understanding that they are actually communicating with the wrong guy. Not because I detached Maran, but actually the father has not nominated Maran to negotiate. Now, you know, it’s like a banana republic where the Cabinet… VIR: Then why Maran became the face? They all hate Maran. RADIA: No. He is not, he is not. I know, no. But the Congress is under the impression. They have already apparently indicated to Maran that the Prime Minister will not give infrastructure berth to DMK, which… but he himself is desperately pushing for an infrastructure berth for himself. VIR: Right. RADIA: But the problem is that there is a leader which is Kani’s brother, which is Alagiri, who’s won that election and he is a mass leader. VIR: Okay. RADIA: Now what has apparently… Maran has gone and indicated to Congress that he will accept a MOS independent, and you leave it with me, everything will be okay. VIR: Okay. RADIA: Which blames Baalu, Raja and Maran Cabinet posts independent to Alagiri and MOS to Kani. VIR: Okay. RADIA: Now, Alagiri is a very, you know, he is, he is a mass leader. He controls half of Tamil Nadu for Karunanidhi’s point of view. VIR: Okay. RADIA: He is far too, too senior for Maran. So, what he has told his father that if you make Maran a Cabinet minister… VIR: Yeah. RADIA: …I’ll not come into the Cabinet. And the father cannot afford to upset him because… VIR: Obviously. RADIA: …simply because of his position. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: Right now, the Congress doesn’t seem to be understanding this. VIR: So, who should they talk to? RADIA: They need to, look, they need to talk directly to Karunanidhi, they need to talk to Kani. VIR: Sonia spoke to him yesterday, you know. RADIA: No, she didn’t speak to him. Only Prime Minister spoke, even that was Kani was translating for him. It was very brief that, you know, let’s try and resolve this issue. There is nothing at all and whatever. They need to get Ghulam Nabi Azad to speak to Kanimozhi. VIR: Okay. RADIA: Seriously, that’s the only thing that will work and Kani will take them to her father. VIR: I won’t get into Sonia in the short term, let me try and get through to Ahmed. RADIA: No. But they need to speak to Kani [Kanimozhi, DMK Chief M Karunanidhi’s daughter], and Kani will take him to their, her father directly. VIR: Okay. RADIA: He has no problem with three Cabinet berths at all. In fact, it is the Congress that messed it up. VIR: Mm...hmm. RADIA: Had they, had they not kept on insisting and kept on pushing Maran forward… themselves have been pushing Maran forward. They would have left it to Raja and, and Baalu even if they wanted, or Raja and Alagiri and Kani would taken independent, nobody will, it is Congress they started this whole Maran dialogue. VIR: Oh, I have been thinking that DMK nominated Maran. RADIA: No. No. No. No, they did, they’ve sent a list earlier with five portfolios and Maran’s name because father was pushed … so he had to send a list with everybody’s name on it. But he was hoping that Congress would come back and say, ‘Okay, we will accept Raja,’ or ‘We will not,’ or ‘Not Raja, we will give you only three portfolios,’ right? But they have not able to, the communication that’s been happening in Congress with DMK has been completely warped. They are talking to the wrong guys. VIR: Okay. Let me try and get through to Ahmed. RADIA: The, the simplest way is Kani [inaudible; 0:03:24]. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: And Kani [inaudible; 0:03:27] will take them to her father directly. VIR: Okay. RADIA: And they can have this, you know, whatever are the, the concerns, whatever they want to say, let them say in front of Kani. VIR: And he’ll never mind. He will not mind. RADIA: Yeah, they should say, they should say, ‘We don’t want Maran.’ VIR: Okay, done. Let me just try and get through and I’ll let you know soon. RADIA: But the moment you drop Maran, your problem gets resolved because Alagiri has done okay. VIR: Okay. RADIA: Okay. Give him this message. She is right now… VIR: I just… RADIA: [Inaudible; 0:03:51] She is in her South Avenue residence. VIR: They have a mobile , you know? RADIA: I just met her. VIR: Okay. RADIA: And some Tamil Nadu Congress guys also want just now to meet her. VIR: Okay. RADIA: I don’t think it needs to be done at that level. It needs to be done at, at Ghulam Nabi Azad level or… VIR: Well, I’ll talk with Ahmed. I’m going to talk to him. +++ A follow-up discussion on cabinet berths for the DMK’s leading lights, including of course the Telecom Ministry for A Raja NIIRA RADIA “Thanks…That was really great, you know, you all, I mean it was exactly as you had said” DATE 23 May 2009 TIME 22:26:42 VIR: Hello. RADIA: Sorry to disturb you. VIR: Hi, no problem. RADIA: They had a meeting. VIR: Okay. RADIA: MK Narayanan [National Security Advisor at the time] had come. VIR: Okay. RADIA: And as suggested it was Kani only. VIR: Okay. RADIA: And they had a… they are still stuck to their four formula and one independent. VIR: Okay. RADIA: But these people will also think about it and let him know tomorrow morning. He is… VIR: But they will not send him about the family or whatever, right? RADIA: No. He clarified everything that you had told him. VIR: Okay, very good. RADIA: I think that there was no issue, and there was, and there was lot of relief from this Chief Minister’s side. VIR: Okay. RADIA: And he realised that, you know, this is all being done by… VIR: By Maran. RADIA: …yeah. [inaudible; 0:00:42] But the thing is that it appears that he is still under a lot of pressure to take Maran, you know, so… VIR: Where is this coming from, this pressure? RADIA: It’s coming from Stalin and his sister Sylvie. VIR: Okay. Radia: So, I believe Maran has given about 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin’s mother. VIR: 600 Crores, okay? RADIA: 600 Crores, is what I’m told. VIR It’s hard to argue with that kind of pressure? RADIA: Isn’t it. So, he is… VIR: Yeah. RADIA: …but no, but he doesn’t know, the father doesn’t, I mean... VIR: Doesn’t realise what? RADIA: Doesn’t realise that. But this is the feedback that Alagiri has got. VIR: Okay. RADIA: And… VIR: So, basically what they want is a little more flexibility and posts right? They want probably more cabinets or something? RADIA: They are saying one more cabinet and Kani was independent charge. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: But if they stick to three and give independent charge, then Kani gets her independent and then Alagiri, Baalu and Raja come in? VIR: That is not so bad, you know. RADIA: Yeah, so I think… VIR: …unless Maran is one of the cabinet. RADIA: Yeah. But yeah, unless Maran is one of the cabinet. But I don’t think he can give it to three family members. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: That will send a very wrong signal. VIR: That’s right. RADIA: So, the best thing is, you know, if I don’t know whether Narayanan can say that, I mean he can’t say who should be the people. But he could probably go back and say that, you know, Baalu and Raja and Alagiri is the best option and Kani, you know. VIR: And it’s good for the Government also. That doesn’t seem to be giving it to the family. RADIA: Yeah. Yeah but then I don’t know whether he is in the position to take names, you know. VIR: Because Baalu and Raja are saying it is being spread by Maran saying that we don’t, nobody wants them because they are crooks to advance his own career, you know. RADIA: Yeah. Yeah. So, if there was anything that could be said which is, that, that you know, you know, if, if Narayanan was to come back tomorrow and say by looking, I think, we think that may be the three, and we’ll see a little later for the fourth one. But for now let’s just look at Alagiri, Baalu and Raja… VIR: And, and, and see Maran… RADIA: …and we can give independent to Kani. VIR : Yeah. Makes sense. RADIA: And, and that would be a, a good thing for him to say. And they are asking for environment and forest. VIR: See, Narayanan will talk to PM. Then they have to communicate, he won’t talk to the Congress President. Radia: Hmm? VIR: He won’t talk to Congress president. So, somebody … he’s PM’s man, he has gone on behalf of PM. So, they will, PMO will send its feedback to Congress party. So, that stage my friends will get a…. RADIA: So they will in any case speak to Ahmed, you know. VIR: Yeah. Yeah, they will. And nothing will happen without his getting involved. RADIA: Yeah. VIR: So, I’ll speak to him right away and convey this? RADIA: Yeah. But maybe that, you know, he would have to specify then that we are not too comfortable with Maran… VIR: Yeah. RADIA: …and let it be Baalu and Raja because so much has been said and then it would also, also send a wrong message that if you don’t take Baalu and Raja now. But I don’t know whether they will say that? VIR: I don’t know. Well let’s, let’s. No, harm trying. RADIA: But therefore Kani, is asking for, he is not told Narayanan this, but they’ve suggested a couple of ministries. VIR: Which one? RADIA: But they are saying okay, telecom is going to Raja in any case. VIR: Okay. RADIA: That, the old man is very clear about. VIR: Okay. RADIA: But as far as the other two are concerned, he doesn’t mind. He is not very fussed about chemical, fertilisers and labour. VIR: Okay. RADIA: How funny, he would prefer that she gets independent charge Environment and Forest or something like that. You know, where she can get her teeth in and she is I think, she is very upright with it. So, they shouldn’t have any problem with that, or by the way aviation also. VIR: What about Civil Aviation? RADIA: And Civil Aviation. VIR: It gives her the, it gives her the profile she would need, you know. RADIA: She wants the aviation because, why she says aviation because she can do Chennai airport, Salem and Madurai and all that, you know… VIR: Yeah. RADIA: …it gives her the, the foothold for the political side. VIR: We don’t have anyone there. Let me talk. RADIA: Yeah. And she is intelligent and she will do just, because they are saying Environment and Forest and Aviation for Kani in independent charge. VIR: I’ll pass this on? RADIA: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks to you. VIR: Yeah. RADIA: That was really great, you know, you all, I mean it was exactly as you had said and… VIR : Okay. RADIA: They were very relieved and she was so relieved. So, wants to say thank you to you personally. VIR: I’ll pass it… RADIA: Let’s hope tomorrow it will---and Alagiri has got all those messages. My person came back and confirmed. VIR: Oh, very good. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 16:10:48 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:10:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Shouldn=92t_Vir=2C_Barkha_step_dow?= =?windows-1252?q?n_now=3F?= Message-ID: Shouldn’t Vir, Barkha step down now? GN Bureau | November 19 2010 Nira Radia, a PR professional – or to put it plainly, a lobbyist – dictated what goes into senior editor Vir Sanghvi’s column and what NDTV anchor Barkha Dutt should tell the Congress ahead of cabinet formation, going by the telephonic conversations authorities tapped (read the transcripts hereor read a report here ). There’s much more here than merely consulting an expert before writing a column or anchoring a story. Veteran and iconic journalists purportedly took brief from a corporate lobbyist and purportedly coordinated the backdoor wheeling-dealing of a cabinet formation on behalf of business tycoons, if these tapes are authentic. While we are in no position to endorse the content, wouldn’t these opinion-makers have asked a politician to resign pending an inquiry? The tapes reveal the ugly side of two of our venerable four estates. As for the media, a veteran editor who plays a role in helping millions of readers form opinion (we are being charitable here), stands compromised. This is only an extension of the business of paid news (read our analysis and the Press Council’s unpublicised report here. While the other three estates have a degree of public accountability, the fourth estate goes scot free. A voter can question an MP once in five years, but as a reader she has no way to question the editor. As for the polity, the tapes raise the spectre of ‘corporate democracy’, for the corporates, by the corporates and of the corporates. To stem this trend, as a small step, shouldn’t the guardians of the public interest – Hindustan Times and NDTV in this case – ask Sanghvi and Dutt to step down and face inquiry? -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 19:04:05 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:04:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Shouldn=B9t_Vir=2C_Barkha_step_down_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?now=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Check out the Outlook website for more dirt. Here's just one of the sickening audios. http://business.outlookindia.com/view.aspx?vname=16-CongApniDukan20090522-17 0040.wav On 19/11/10 4:10 PM, "Aditya Raj Kaul" wrote: > Shouldn¹t Vir, Barkha step down now? GN Bureau | November 19 2010 Nira > Radia, a PR professional ­ or to put it plainly, a lobbyist ­ dictated what > goes into senior editor Vir Sanghvi¹s column and what NDTV anchor Barkha Dutt > should tell the Congress ahead of cabinet formation, going by the telephonic > conversations authorities tapped (read the > transcripts hereor read a report here > ). There¹s much > more here than merely consulting an expert before writing a column or > anchoring a story. Veteran and iconic journalists purportedly took brief from > a corporate lobbyist and purportedly coordinated the backdoor wheeling-dealing > of a cabinet formation on behalf of business tycoons, if these tapes are > authentic. While we are in no position to endorse the content, wouldn¹t these > opinion-makers have asked a politician to resign pending an inquiry? The > tapes reveal the ugly side of two of our venerable four estates. As for the > media, a veteran editor who plays a role in helping millions of readers form > opinion (we are being charitable here), stands compromised. This is only an > extension of the business of paid news (read our analysis and the Press > Council¹s unpublicised > report here ls-sham-report-hide-indian-medias-shame%29>. While the other three estates > have a degree of public accountability, the fourth estate goes scot free. A > voter can question an MP once in five years, but as a reader she has no way to > question the editor. As for the polity, the tapes raise the spectre of > Œcorporate democracy¹, for the corporates, by the corporates and of the > corporates. To stem this trend, as a small step, shouldn¹t the guardians of > the public interest ­ Hindustan Times and NDTV in this case ­ ask Sanghvi and > Dutt to step down and face inquiry? -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The > Indian, Australia Web: > http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & > Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pranesh at cis-india.org Fri Nov 19 19:42:24 2010 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:42:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Authors for Book | Openness and Access: An India Survey Message-ID: <4CE685C8.9070609@cis-india.org> Dear all, The Centre for Internet and Society is planning to bring out a book charting out the state of various kinds of 'opennesses' in India, tentatively titled "Openness and Access: An India Survey". This book will include India-focussed surveys of Open Access to Law, Open Government Data, Open Access to Scholarly Literature, Open Educational Resources, Open Standards, Free/Open Source Software, and Open Content, each of which will be a self-contained chapter in the book. We are presenting an open call for researchers for each of these surveys. Each of the surveys will broadly have to include: 1) Literature review 2) Policy scan 3) Institutional scan 4) Project scan 5) Case studies and interviews 6) Observations, analysis of policy tensions and recommendations 7) Directory of stakeholders 8) Further readings Each survey, depending on the subject matter and the scope agreed to between the researcher and CIS, is expected to be roughly between 22,000 words and 35,000 words. The deadlines of these projects will, of course, vary, but they will range from between two months and four. Each researcher will be given a separate travel bursary on a need basis, which will be agreed upon at the commencement of the research. The exact remuneration for each survey depends on the extent of the project as is finally worked out between the researcher and CIS, but the following can be taken to be indicative: 1) Open Access to Law ~ Rs. 50,000 2) Open Government Data ~ Rs. 50,000 3) Open Access to Scholarly Literature ~ Rs. 80,000 4) Open Educational Resources ~ Rs. 80,000 5) Open Standards ~ Rs. 50,000 6) Free and Open Source Software ~ Rs. 80,000 7) Open Content ~ Rs. 80,000 If you have a background in research, academics, or policy analysis and would be interested in working on one of these, please write in to Pranesh Prakash by Tuesday, November 30, 2010, with a copy of your résumé, your specific interests in the area, and a writing sample. Regards, Pranesh -- Pranesh Prakash Programme Manager Centre for Internet and Society W: http://cis-india.org | T: +91 80 40926283 From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 20:05:01 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 20:05:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 2G Tapes Message-ID: Actually some of this is pretty funny: Radia tapes ŒI Know Who Planted In Congress That Azhagiri Knows No English¹ A. Raja, Former telecom minister Full Monty: The Raja-Radia Tapes *** Niira Radia: How are you? A. Raja: Haan...what is Kani telling? NR: She¹s telling that she¹s okay about it. She has no problem. But the only thing is that somebody has to go talk to Azhagiri, which you have to do. AR: Hmm... NR: And tell him how (Dayanidhi) Maran has gone and told (badmouthed him) AR: Haan, I already spoke with him. NR: You told him what he (Maran) has told the Congress leaders in Delhi? AR: I know who planted things in the minds of the Congress saying that Azhagiri doesn¹t know English I know... NR: No, no. Not only that. That he (Maran) and Stalin will be the only ones left to run the party because the old man is senile and he is not going to be around any longer, and therefore Congress will be happy doing business with him because it will be him. Him eventually, and he controls Stalin. This is what he has said. AR: Oh, ho, ho, ho! NR: And that Azhagiri is criminal. And he has not even studied more than 5th standard. That¹s the exact thing that he has told. AR: Okay, okay. NR: You go and tell him this, no? AR: No, I shared with Azhagiri. Azhagiri in turn went to speak with Leader (Karunanidhi). NR: But he has also said this that in Delhi I¹m the only one that you have to deal with eventually because, any case, Stalin will remain in the state (Tamil Nadu). AR: I know, see, I know what type of propaganda he will manage. *** AR: Raja here. NR: Hi! I got a message from Barkha Dutt just now. AR: Huh? NR: Barkha Dutt. AR: What does she say? NR: She says that she has been following up the story with the pmo tonight. In fact, she was the one who told me that Sonia Gandhi went there. She says that he has no problem with you, but he has problems with Baalu. AR: But it has to be discussed with Leader. NR: Yeah, yeah, he (Azhagiri) has to discuss with the Leader. AR: It will be discussed in the morning. NR: Azhagiri¹s people are saying, why is Maran getting a cabinet berth when he is such a senior leader himself? AR: That is different, but all these things must be explored and disclosed. NR: That¹s right. AR: At least, one to one, let it be disclosed to Leader. Somebody should give a message, at least in a sealed cover, that we are having serious problems with Baalu. NR: From Congress, right? AR: Yes. NR: Okay, I¹ll tell her. She is talking to Ahmed Patel, so I will talk to him. AR: Let her call at least over phone: Sir, this is problem‹we are having high regard‹we are having no problem with Raja, but problem is Baalu. Tell. NR: Then how will you resolve the other problem? AR: Other problems we will take care of slowly, because now Leader comes down. Don¹t worry. Even you are saying that Maran is not fit for infrastructure‹he is having controversy‹right. You send a message. From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 20:43:37 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 20:43:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=8CI_Am_Surprised_Raja_After_All_You?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Did_For_Him_Is_Playing_This_Game=B9?= Message-ID: radia tapes ŒI Am Surprised Raja After All You Did For Him Is Playing This Game¹ Ratan Tata, Chairman, Tata Sons ** Niira Radia (NR): So, you¹re still in the Middle East? Ratan Tata: Yeah. I am still in Israel. NR: The budget was okay. Rural growth... RT: Yeah. It didn¹t do anything one way or the other. I guess the only concern I have is that Maran is going hammer and tongs for Raja. And I hope Raja doesn¹t trip or slip or... NR: No, he hasn¹t, because the chief justice has issued a statement that no minister called the high court justice. (A Madras High Court judge had alleged that a Union minister had tried to influence him, and Dayanidhi Maran immediately pointed fingers at A. Raja.) RT: Oh, really? NR: The Chief Justice of India has issued that statement. So that is clarified. And in any case that did not happen and Maran is made to look a little bit of a fool. RT: Okay. NR: And, in any case, if something did happen, it would bring Kani (Kanimozhi) into that position, not Maran. RT: Okay. NR: In any case, it was the president of the bar association who said that in open court. RT: Okay. *** NR: Round II of the telecom battle has started. I don¹t know how many more battles there will be. RT: I¹m surprised that Raja after all that you supposedly did for him is playing this game. NR: I explained to Kani. I met her yesterday on the way back home last evening. I told her, Kani, this is what is happening. She told me I¹ll call him and tell him to behave. He (Raja) very clearly told me, ŒTell me, Niira, how can I go against the court order?¹ So I said, ŒHello, Mr Raja, you can go against the court. You don¹t have to go by what the court said because 4.4 (megahertz) is what the licence entitlement is and it¹s for you to interpret.¹ So there is this little game going on. RT: But now with the new attorney-general or whoever he is... NR: No, Ratan, that¹s a good thing. I¹ll tell you why‹because he can only handle constitutional matters. The solicitor-general is the gentleman‹I told you about the swimming pool thing‹Gopal Subramaniam. He¹s the guy who will be doing the interpretation. I¹m going to see him. I sent him a message and he said he will call back at 5.30-6 when he gets free and is home. So I will be briefing him.... Actually, he hates them (the Anil Ambani group). I¹m not sure he¹ll agree to what they say. He¹s an upright person.... I think Raja will be trying to get in the AG. He briefed PM yesterday about 3G saying he wants to put up a cabinet note and doesn¹t want to go to the GoM. They¹ll do all this drama but I don¹t think there¹ll be 3G auctioning before March next year. They¹re not gonna do it in a hurry. And the only reason they want to do 6.25 (MHZ) for Anil is so that he can get AT&T to buy into his company. AT&T is talking to him right now, Ratan. RT: I see... NR: Yeah, coz he needs an equity partner otherwise he can¹t survive with the debts he¹s got. His avenues have closed unless he fudges some other things and raises money. RT: Why isn¹t all this exposed? NR: Ratan, they¹re buying up the media. They¹re using their buying power with the media. For every ad they place...I can¹t tell you the discussions I have had with the media, in particular the Times Group and Dainik Bhaskar‹the Aggarwal guys who you met.... RT: Yes... NR: They say, Niira, every time we do a negative story on them, they withdraw advertising. So, I said, fine, others can also withdraw advertising.... They leverage every dollar of their mediaspend to ensure they don¹t get negative publicity. The media is very, very greedy.... From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 21:32:49 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:32:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How cabinet berths are decided Message-ID: radia tapes Who Do You Want Congress To Talk To? Karunanidhi? I¹ll Speak To Ahmed Patel.¹ Vir Sanghvi, HT advisory editorial director Niira Radia: Hi. Vir Sanghvi: Hi, can you talk? NR: Yeah, yeah. Okay. VS: You know, Maran did not meet Sonia. NR: He did not. VS: He won¹t meet Sonia, he¹s been there, they say we¹re not treating him as official spokesperson at all. He called just now, I saw your message, he is calling up Ghulam Nabi Azad every half an hour and making new demands. As far as we¹re concerned, there are two wives, one brother, one sister, one nephew, it¹s all got very complicated for us. We¹ve made a basic offer, if Karunanidhi responds to us and tells us he¹d like to respond directly, he¹d like to talk to Mrs Gandhi, we¹d be happy. He spoke only to Manmohan Singh. We¹ve told Maran they¹ve to come back to us and tell us what they think of our offer. And, apparently the DMK is getting very bad press in Chennai. NR: Hmm. VS: So, he said we¹re going to wait for two days. Let them come back, we¹re of the line that this is not a Congress-DMK problem, this is an internal DMK problem because they can¹t get their act together between all his wives and children and nephews. He¹s got to get his act together and nominate one person and we¹d be very happy to deal with him. We¹re not happy with this Maran who keeps calling up Ghulam Nabi and saying Œtalk to me, talk to me¹. They are not taking him seriously. NR: Very interesting. I¹m glad you spoke to Ghulam Nabi, did you? VS: I spoke to Ahmed (Patel). Ghulam Nabi is not a very key figure. Ahmed is the key figure. NR: Right. VS: Yeah. So, Ahmed says Ghulam has been dealing with Maran. But Ghulam is not our official person and we¹re not taking Maran seriously. As far as they are concerned, they¹ve asked for five crucial ministries, it¹s an idiotic and unreasonable demand. We¹ve made them a perfectly reasonable demand. Now, it is for Karunanidhi to get back to us, Kani to come and see us, anyone can come and see us and say I¹ll put you on the line with my father et cetera, lines are, doors are, open to her. But we can¹t have a situation where Maran keeps calling us and saying I¹m the person and telling Ghulam, I want this, I want that, who is Maran?¹ NR: Hmm. VS: Maran has gone back apparently today to Chennai? NR: Yeah. He has gone back. VS: Ahmed says, ŒWe told him, we told Maran also that we¹ll deal with Karunanidhi, so he has gone back. So, they are quite hopeful, they say, we made a very reasonable offer, we have lot of regards for Karunanidhi, we would like to deal with him. We have no regard for Maran.¹ *** VS: Hello. NR: Sorry to disturb you. They had a meeting. VS: Okay. NR: M.K. Narayanan had come. And as suggested it was Kani only. But they are still stuck to their four formula and one independent. VS: Okay. NR: But these people will also think about it and let him know tomorrow morning. He (Ahmed Patel) clarified everything. VS: Okay, very good. NR: I think that there was no issue and there was lot of relief from the chief minister¹s side. And he realised that, you know, this is all being done by... VS: By Maran. NR: Yeah. But the thing is that it appears that he is still under a lot of pressure to take Maran, you know. VS: Where is this coming from, this pressure? NR: It¹s coming from Stalin and his sister Selvi. VS: Okay. NR: I believe Maran has given Rs 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin¹s mother. VS: It¹s hard to argue with that kind of pressure. NR: Isn¹t it? But if they stick to three and want one independent charge, then Kani gets an independent and then Azhagiri, Baalu and Raja come in. VS: That is not so bad, you know. NR: Yeah, so I think. VS: Unless Maran is one of the cabinet. NR: Yeah. But I don¹t think he can give it to three family members. That will send a very wrong signal. *** VS: Hi, Niira. NR: Hi, Vir. Where are you, Delhi or... VS: I am in Jaipur. Coming back this evening. NR: Okay. I¹ve been talking to my Tamil Nadu friends. I don¹t know whether you are in the position to get through to anyone at Congress. I met Kani just now. VS: I was supposed to meet Sonia today but I¹ve been stuck here. So, now it¹s becoming tomorrow. I¹ve been meeting with Rahul, but tell me... NR: They are not understanding that they are actually communicating with the wrong guy. Not because I detest Maran but actually the father has not nominated Maran to negotiate. Now, you know, it¹s like a banana republic where the cabinet... VS: Then why has Maran become the face, they all hate Maran. NR: No, he¹s not. I know. But the Congress is under another impression. They have already apparently indicated to Maran that the prime minister will not give infrastructure to DMK. But he is desperately pushing for an infrastructure berth himself. VS: Right. NR: But the problem is that there is a leader which is Kani¹s brother who is Azhagiri who¹s won that election and he is a mass leader. He controls half of Tamil Nadu. And the father cannot afford to upset him because... VS: Obviously... NR: Simply because of his position. VS: Yeah. NR: Right now the Congress doesn¹t seem to be understanding this. VS: So, who should they talk to? NR: They need to talk directly to Karunanidhi. They need to talk to Kani. VS: Let me try and get through to Ahmed. From samvitr at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 21:41:39 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:41:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Shouldn=B9t_Vir=2C_Barkha_step_down_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?now=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is such excellent stuff. It seems like a piece from a soap opera with all the masala of intrigue, deceit, backstabbers, etc. The dark and dirty side of the Congress and Barkha is so openly portrayed. Barkha who has/had this image of "holier than thou!!" comes out like a broker in the audio tapes. And there are people who call Karunanidhi..."us, buddhe ko bo do!!!" On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 7:04 PM, SJabbar wrote: > Check out the Outlook website for more dirt.  Here's just one of the > sickening audios. > > http://business.outlookindia.com/view.aspx?vname=16-CongApniDukan20090522-17 > 0040.wav > > > On 19/11/10 4:10 PM, "Aditya Raj Kaul" wrote: > >>    Shouldn¹t Vir, Barkha step down now? > GN Bureau | November 19 2010 > > Nira >> Radia, a PR professional ­ or to put it plainly, a lobbyist ­ dictated > what >> goes into senior editor Vir Sanghvi¹s column and what NDTV anchor > Barkha Dutt >> should tell the Congress ahead of cabinet formation, going by > the telephonic >> conversations authorities tapped (read the >> transcripts > hereor read a report > here >> ). > > There¹s much >> more here than merely consulting an expert before writing a > column or >> anchoring a story. Veteran and iconic journalists purportedly took > brief from >> a corporate lobbyist and purportedly coordinated the backdoor > wheeling-dealing >> of a cabinet formation on behalf of business tycoons, if > these tapes are >> authentic. While we are in no position to endorse the > content, wouldn¹t these >> opinion-makers have asked a politician to resign > pending an inquiry? > > The >> tapes reveal the ugly side of two of our venerable four estates. > > As for the >> media, a veteran editor who plays a role in helping millions of > readers form >> opinion (we are being charitable here), stands compromised. > This is only an >> extension of the business of paid news (read our analysis > and the Press >> Council¹s unpublicised >> report > here> ls-sham-report-hide-indian-medias-shame%29>. > While the other three estates >> have a degree of public accountability, > the > fourth estate goes scot free. A >> voter can question an MP once in five years, > but as a reader she has no way to >> question the editor. > > As for the polity, the tapes raise the spectre of >> Œcorporate democracy¹, for > the corporates, by the corporates and of the >> corporates. To stem this trend, > as a small step, shouldn¹t the guardians of >> the public interest ­ Hindustan > Times and NDTV in this case ­ ask Sanghvi and >> Dutt to step down and face > inquiry? > >   -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > India Editor > The >> Indian, Australia > > Web: >> http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & >> Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 21:44:54 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:44:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When corporations capture the state: corporate lobbying and democracy Message-ID: When corporations capture the state: corporate lobbying and democracy Praful Bidwai May 2010 > Washington-style practices of corporate lobbying have crept up on New Delhi > politics, subverting the policy-making process to meet the profit imperatives > of private corporations. The new trend of corporate lobbying in India presents > a real and serious threat to democracy. > > > > > > > > Several recent developments, including the release of intercepts of a > telephone conversation between corporate lobbyist Niira Radia and a Dravida > Munnetra Kazhagam > MP; a Parliament uproar over the underselling of telecommunications spectrum; > and media stories on the growing power of the lobbyist­politician­policymaker > nexus, have highlighted a major affliction of the Indian polity which should > concern all conscientious citizens. > > Lobbyists have come to acquire enormous clout, to the point of influencing the > choice of Cabinet minister, nominating key bureaucrats, and formulating > economic and industrial policies at the nuts-and-bolts level. > > Indeed, the tapped telephone conversation shows that Ms Radia played a pivotal > role in ensuring that the telecommunications portfolio would go to the DMK¹s A > Raja in the second government formed by the United Progressive Alliance, and > that he would be elevated to Cabinet rank. Also discussed was the power > struggle within the DMK, which saw Mr M Karunanidhi¹s immediate family > loyalists outmanoeuvre their cousins, in particular Mr Dayanidhi Maran, who > was moved from the communications portfolio he held in UPA-1 to textiles. > There are other instances too of lobbyists intrusively interfering with > policymaking processes, political party affairs and parliamentary dynamics in > ways which would have been unthinkable only years ago. > > Crony capitalism in New Delhi > > Corporate lobbyists have become important mediators ‹ and sometimes active > players ‹ in business-government relations in a number of areas, including the > infrastructure (highways, ports and huge projects under the Jawaharlal Nehru > National Urban Renewal Mission in 63 cities), energy (including gas, oil and > energy), telecom (where the 3G auction bids show that the earlier 2G-spectrum > were sold at a fraction of the market price), and mining (where global > conglomerates have developed stakes running into billions of dollars in > India's tribal heartland). Not to be ignored is the clout that lobbyists wield > in military contracts, agribusiness, seeds, civil aviation, and opening up > retail trade to organised business, including multinational hypermarket chains > like Metro, Carrefour and Wal-Mart. > > Corporate lobbying has become the highest embodiment of crony capitalism in > India. It has developed into a formidable industry, with at least 30 major > firms based in New Delhi alone. Each of them appoints dozens of > "facilitators", "account executives", point-persons and lawyers, all dedicated > to securing sweetheart deals and licences for their clients, and just as > importantly, ensuring that their clients' rivals don't get them. > > Some of these companies, such as Integral PR, Perfect Relations and Genesis > PR, started as straightforward public relations firms, but have diversified > into corporate advocacy and lobbying. Others, like Niira Radia's Vaishnavi, > Neucon and Noesis, Suhel Seth's Counselage, or Deepak Talwar's DTA Associates, > were launched with corporate lobbying as their core business. > > Unlike advertising agencies, which offer certain services to whoever is > willing to pay, lobbying companies are intimately allied in what may be called > political ways with specific business groups. Since they have access to > business secrets, including knowledge of malpractices, their loyalty to > individual industry magnates is all-important. In addition, there are > individual entrepreneur-lobbyists like MPs Amar Singh and NK Singh, who work > for different clients. > > Unsubtle practices and media manipulation > > Common to them are all the slick techniques and skills that successful, if > unscrupulous, lobbying requires, including ability to cherry-pick facts that > suit/favour the client; make attractive PowerPoint presentations that suggest > familiarity with the subject, if not mastery of it; determination not to be > fazed by hostile interactions; knowledge of which keywords to use and which > buttons to press. > > What matters above all is the ability to do social networking, spend lavishly, > throw dazzling parties and please industrial magnates, politicians and key > bureaucrats by finding out their strengths and weaknesses and shamelessly > exploiting them to the point of blackmail. The lobbyists aren't "the hidden > persuaders" of the advertising world. They are typically flamboyant people, > high-profile, even exhibitionist. > > In some cases, e.g. Mr Talwar's, success in swinging spectacular deals for his > clients like Coca-Cola depends on personal proximity to key bureaucrats, such > as former principal secretary to the Prime Minister AN Varma during the 1990s. > (Mr Talwar has recently cultivated civil aviation minister Praful Patel, > allegedly to promote his own interests in duty-free shopping at airports.) > > In many cases, it's the sheer number of people on their payroll which give > lobbyists the enormous reach and influence they wield‹ranging from business > journalists to TV anchors, from personal assistants to middle-level > bureaucrats all the way to top-ranking ministers, and from law firms (who can > deliver subtle threats) to key officials in the income-tax department, who can > be used to coerce and cajole decision-makers. Some TV anchors were implicated > in lobbying for high berths in UPA-2 for certain MPs. Corporate lobbyists > assiduously cultivate the media, which duly returns the favour. > > As many journalists well know, the second mode of operation is typical of some > of India's biggest corporate conglomerates, who plant their loyalists in every > major media outlet and agency. Their key personnel get to know ‹ typically in > advance of the news editor ‹ just which stories are set to appear in all the > relevant papers which might affect their interests or their rivals'. They work > in a mafia-style manner to kill the story if it's inconvenient or "hostile", > and to have it played up if it favours them. This doesn't have to be done at > the state, divisional or district level. Controlling the top papers and > channels at their headquarters and influencing other key agencies is effective > enough. If all else fails, what always works is the threat of withdrawing > advertising support. > > From Washington to New Delhi: a worrying new trend in Indian politics > > The reach, political influence and financial power of the corporate lobbyists, > as well as the fervour of their activity, has acquired wholly new and menacing > dimensions in the past decade or so. It's not that there were no lobbyists > earlier. There were ‹ from individual influence-peddlers like SK Patil and > Rajni Patel in the 1960s and 1970s, to the organised "liaison agents" of the > 1980s who hung around Udyog Bhavan and Raksha Bhavan, the headquarters of the > industry and defence ministries. But the business didn't have an organised > character, a sharp enough focus, concentration of high-level manpower, and > even one-hundredth of the ability to secure shady deals. > > Precisely because India is furiously globalising and energetically pursuing > neoliberal policies, Big Business today has an incomparably bigger stake than > in the past in securing windfall contracts for highway, airport and flyover > construction and special economic zones; in privatising natural resources and > obtaining leases on land, water, minerals and forests; in rigging the capital > markets; in opening up foreign air travel routes to private airlines; in > helping multinational corporations to penetrate retail trade; in taking over > city bus transportation at assured super-profits; and in invading the public > sphere so that foodgrains can be diverted to alcohol production, and pricey, > artificially flavoured biscuits can displace wholesome, nutritious, freshly > cooked food in mid-day meal schemes for school children. So much for the > much-vaunted "free market"! > > Such blatant manipulation of the entire policy-making apparatus makes > old-style "licence-permit Raj"‹always exaggerated for its supposedly > debilitating impact on the economy, and forever deftly manipulated by business > groups‹pale in comparison. Then, the bureaucrat had to be influenced and > induced to open up a partially-closed system. Now, the bureaucrat is an > already-willing ally of Big Business. The contest is over who will secure the > favour first to keep the rival out. > > Secondly, lobbying is about recruiting as many retired top-ranking public > servants as possible so they can influence their former colleagues and juniors > on their clients' behalf. Thus, private oil, gas and electricity companies, > steel producers, telecom corporations and airlines have all recruited retired > bureaucrats or public sector executives. This pernicious practice should be > banned and punished. No retiree should be allowed to accept any position in a > related company for 10 years. > > Another characteristic of the new-generation corporate lobbyists is their > strong global connections. They work closely with organisations like the > US-India Business Council and with major Western lobbying firms like Patton > Boggs and Burson-Marsteller, which are big players in Washington. The US > capital is said to be crawling with 17,000 registered lobbyists. It won't be > an exaggeration to say that the US-India nuclear deal would probably not have > gone through the US Congress without the efforts of the USIBC, Patton Boggs > and the American-Israeli Political Action Council. > > Corporate lobbying is far more insidious and commercially collusive than the > politician-criminal nexus. It's also much more damaging at the national level. > Lobbyists exert the most pernicious conceivable influence on policy-making and > corrupt the process of democracy. They introduce irrational and extraneous > elements in decision-making and subvert the public interest. They add uniquely > to sleaze, venality, cynicism and corruption in the entire polity. > > Way back in the 1980s, the Indian political class acknowledged the corrosive > role of lobbyists in military contracts and altogether banned middlemen from > defence purchase negotiations. But now it has succumbed to that very influence > on a gigantically greater scale ‹ not just in military contracts, but in every > sphere. Unless this toxic influence is removed, and lobbying is outlawed and > punished, it will undermine and hollow out Indian democracy, our most precious > possession. Democracy must be defended against business manipulation and > predatory corporate lobbying. > > > > > > > > Praful Bidwai > > > > Independent Journalist > > > > TNI Fellow and former senior editor of The Times of India, Praful is a > freelance journalist and insightful columnist for several leading newspapers > in South Asia writing regularly on all aspects of Indian politics, economy, > society and its international relations. He is an associate editor of Security > Dialogue, published by PRIO, Oslo; a member of the International Network of > Engineers and Scientists against Proliferation (INESAP) and co-founder of the > Movement in India for Nuclear Disarmament (MIND). > > > > > > From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 21:50:31 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:50:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] More on Niira Radia Message-ID: Our Lasting Shame Of Scandals That Tell Us How Far We Have Slid Ravindra Kumar To believe in something and not to live it, is dishonest ~ Mahatma Gandhi. IT must be galling for the Prime Minister to realise that, contrary to popular belief, it was two women ~ neither of them holding a Constitutional post ~ who decided policy in his Government until the other day. And if Dr Manmohan Singh subscribes to Gandhian values of integrity, it must be even more galling to realise that by the Mahatma¹s lights, he may actually be a dishonest man. When Gandhi said that ³non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as is cooperation with good², he had sounded a note of caution for everyone in public life. As the head of a Congress-led government, Dr Singh is bound more by the Gandhian edict than others. And as a man who wears integrity on his sleeve the Prime Minister must by now be aware that he heads a government whose members ~ some of them at least ~ wallow in sleaze, subordinate national interest to commercial interests, and obtain private recompense for acts in the public domain. By continuing to head this government, and to live with the corruption that is part of its basic structure, for nearly seven years now, Dr. Singh establishes one of two things ~ his complicity or his negligence. In either event, he cannot evade responsibility for the mess India finds itself in after the Nira Radia and IPL revelations, to name just two recent scandals. Three aspects There are at least three aspects to the Radia case, as disclosed in a section of the media and especially by the top secret report of the Director-General (Investigations) of the Income-Tax department reproduced in this newspaper that cause grave concern, especially when the report is read in light of facts that ought to be in the public domain. First, that corporate India ~ the Tatas, the Ambanis, Unitech, Bharti Airtel ~ seems to be deeply involved in subverting public policy for private gain, possibly on a scale far bigger than in the past. On 29 April, the Tata group issued a statement that said: ³The Tata group has had a long and fruitful association with Vaishnavi Corporate Communications and its Chairperson Ms Nira Radia, which has added substantial value to the group's communications and public perception. All of Vaishnavi's interactions with the Government on behalf of the Tata group have been related to seeking a level playing field and equity in areas where vested interests have caused distortions or aberrations in policy. Further Vaishnavi's interactions with the Government on behalf of the Tata group, have, in keeping with Tata values, never involved payouts or seeking undue favors.² In sharp contrast, the report of the DGI describes phone conversations that cover areas as diverse as (i) construction of a building in Chennai in association with a member of Mr M Karunanidhi¹s family; (ii) a move to prevent the appointment of Mr. Dayanidhi Maran as Telecom minister; (iii) extension of a mining lease in Jharkhand through the Governor of the state, and (iv) ³media and political environment management² for the Singur project in West Bengal. It is possible Ms Radia exceeded the brief given to her by the Tatas, but the investigation report clearly shows that she was not aiming to create either a ³level playing field² or counter ³distortions or aberrations in policy², as the Tata group would have us believe. A curious aspect of the Tata-Radia connection in West Bengal is that in the process of creating a so-called level playing field, the lobbyist managed not just to establish contacts with senior CPI-M leaders such as Nirupam Sen and Prakash Karat, but also took on as clients the West Bengal government, the West Bengal Industrial Development Corporation (both active players in the Singur affair) and the Information Technology department of the state government. But possible conflict of interest ~ as between WBIDC and Tata Motors over Singur ~ appears not to have bothered any of the players, and certainly not Ms Radia. The D-G¹s report highlights another conflict of interest that ought to be of interest to West Bengal. The report describes Ms Radia¹s efforts to assist Reliance in its bid to acquire Haldia Petrochemicals and the need to ³handle² Purnendu Chatterjee, the promoter of the company. What the report does not tell us is that while one of her companies ~ Neosis Strategic Consultant ~ has Reliance as a client, another of her companies, Vaishnavi Corporate Communications, lists Haldia Petrochemicals among its clients. Or that several of her clients at one time ~ Haldia Petrochemicals, Government of West Bengal and WBIDC ~ have been locked in a dispute before the Supreme Court! On behalf of Reliance, Ms Radia is alleged to have (i) attempted to foist people favourable to the company on the pipeline regulatory agency; (ii) attempted to contain damage that may be caused by an inquiry involving Rs 53,000 crore and asset stripping; (iii) deflect an RBI circular involving alleged lapses by RIL; (iv) lobbied the Finance ministry to ensure a 7-year tax holiday for Reliance Gas; (v) organized an  NGO to file PILs against the Anil Ambani group, (vi) facilitated a special audit into rival Reliance Communications, and (vii) arranged control of a television channel, NewsX. On behalf of Bharti, Ms Radia is alleged to have offered to help Mr Sunil Bharti Mittal to mend fences with the Telecom minister for a fee, using socialite, advertising man and occasional agony aunt, Suhel Seth, as a link. On behalf of Unitech, Ms Radia is alleged to have managed policy changes to ensure a telecom licence to Unitech Wireless, handled and facilitated cross-border transfer of funds, arranged sale of equity in Unitech¹s telecom venture, worked with the promoter to convince Government that no windfall gains had accrued to Unitech, and arranged ³accommodation entries² under the guise of purchasing computer software to take out cash and suppress income. Role of the media THE second aspect of the Radia investigation is the role of the media, and one that the report only touches on. It says Ms. Radia¹s ³modus operandi also involve (sic) giving favours to journalists through giving expensive gifts such as cars, and holidays². Did this really happen? If so, who were the beneficiaries? Were they from newspapers or television, or both? Clearly, they must have been in positions of influence to merit gifts of cars. While the investigation report is silent, perhaps it is necessary for every senior journalist and editor to make public the extent of his or her connection with Ms Radia, to ensure that all of us aren¹t tarred with the brush of suspicion and innuendo. Let¹s make it a point to read all signed columns and watch all hosted shows carefully. The role of the media is important because the DGI¹s report makes it clear that l¹affaire Radia is not confined to telecom licences or to Mr A Raja. There are several other aspects to the matter ~ and they go to the core of corporate governance, of lobbying the Government, and of the manner in which news is reported. Readers and viewers would be entitled to ask if sections of the media aren¹t being selective in confining their attention to the telecom mess, and to ask why there isn¹t similar interest in the role played by big business in manipulating policy. Is it because these corporate entities are advertisers and because they are suspected to use their advertising budgets selectively? A third ~ and critical ~ aspect of the Radia affair, indeed of all recent scandals, is that all of us ~ cutting across artificial divisions of party and ideology, profession and trade, persons public and private ~ seem to be touched by corruption, some by participating in it and others by acquiescing. When we gather on 15 August this year, at the Red Fort and elsewhere, let us mark the celebration of freedom by hanging our heads in shame. Let the Prime Minister be the first to do so. And when we do raise our heads, let it be with a resolve to be honest for at least that one day ~ and thus solve 1/365th of the problem. No doubt, we will be helped in our resolve by the fact that it is a public and government holiday! The writer is Editor, The Statesman From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 03:30:05 2010 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 03:30:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Shouldn=B9t_Vir=2C_Barkha_step_down_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?now=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eerybody in the media knew about Barkha and Vir; what we didn't know about was that the two of them together would get involved in such a scam like this where even their Congress masters wouldn't be able to save their skin! Commonwealth games has taught me one thing: Kutta kutte ka vairi! That is, dog eats dog! We got to know about all the rot that had set in the Organising Committee (OC) only when one dog began fighting over his share of flesh with the other dog. Here too, the bourgeoisie seem to be fighting the bourgeoisie, which is certainly not a bad thing; its just hastening things; we need to know that. When India shall be a Maoist state we shall make all these people work in the fields before writing even one word on the paper. I am earnestly looking forward to it. This bourgeoisie class needs to be taught a severe lesson which it should find hard to forget! Pheeta Ram On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Samvit wrote: > This is such excellent stuff. It seems like a piece from a soap opera > with all the masala of intrigue, deceit, backstabbers, etc. The dark > and dirty side of the Congress and Barkha is so openly portrayed. > Barkha who has/had this image of "holier than thou!!" comes out like a > broker in the audio tapes. And there are people who call > Karunanidhi..."us, buddhe ko bo do!!!" > > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 7:04 PM, SJabbar wrote: > > Check out the Outlook website for more dirt. Here's just one of the > > sickening audios. > > > > > http://business.outlookindia.com/view.aspx?vname=16-CongApniDukan20090522-17 > > 0040.wav > > > > > > On 19/11/10 4:10 PM, "Aditya Raj Kaul" wrote: > > > >> Shouldn¹t Vir, Barkha step down now? > > GN Bureau | November 19 2010 > > > > Nira > >> Radia, a PR professional ­ or to put it plainly, a lobbyist ­ dictated > > what > >> goes into senior editor Vir Sanghvi¹s column and what NDTV anchor > > Barkha Dutt > >> should tell the Congress ahead of cabinet formation, going by > > the telephonic > >> conversations authorities tapped (read the > >> transcripts > > hereor read a report > > here > >> ). > > > > There¹s much > >> more here than merely consulting an expert before writing a > > column or > >> anchoring a story. Veteran and iconic journalists purportedly took > > brief from > >> a corporate lobbyist and purportedly coordinated the backdoor > > wheeling-dealing > >> of a cabinet formation on behalf of business tycoons, if > > these tapes are > >> authentic. While we are in no position to endorse the > > content, wouldn¹t these > >> opinion-makers have asked a politician to resign > > pending an inquiry? > > > > The > >> tapes reveal the ugly side of two of our venerable four estates. > > > > As for the > >> media, a veteran editor who plays a role in helping millions of > > readers form > >> opinion (we are being charitable here), stands compromised. > > This is only an > >> extension of the business of paid news (read our analysis > > and the Press > >> Council¹s unpublicised > >> report > > here >> ls-sham-report-hide-indian-medias-shame%29>. > > While the other three estates > >> have a degree of public accountability, > > the > > fourth estate goes scot free. A > >> voter can question an MP once in five years, > > but as a reader she has no way to > >> question the editor. > > > > As for the polity, the tapes raise the spectre of > >> Œcorporate democracy¹, for > > the corporates, by the corporates and of the > >> corporates. To stem this trend, > > as a small step, shouldn¹t the guardians of > >> the public interest ­ Hindustan > > Times and NDTV in this case ­ ask Sanghvi and > >> Dutt to step down and face > > inquiry? > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > India Editor > > The > >> Indian, Australia > > > > Web: > >> http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & > >> Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From samvitr at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 08:38:02 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 08:38:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?JK_militants=2C_Naxals_linked=3A_O?= =?windows-1252?q?mar_=91Maoist_Sympathisers_Travelling_To_Srinagar?= =?windows-1252?q?=2C_Organising_Seminars=92?= Message-ID: JK militants, Naxals linked: Omar ‘Maoist Sympathisers Travelling To Srinagar, Organising Seminars’ PRESS TRUST OF INDIA http://greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/20/jk-militants-naxals-linked-omar-47.asp New Delhi, Nov 19: Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah Friday said that there were “visible and invisible links” among the militants in his state, the Maoists, Left-leaning academicians and supporters. “We have no experience with Maoist insurgency even though of late we find efforts being made to build bridges between the Maoists and Naxalites of the rest of India with militants of Kashmir and also some Left-thinking academicians and students in Jammu region as well,” Omar said. He was speaking at a seminar organised in New Delhi by the India Today Group on “State of States in India”. “We have seen evidence of it (of bridges being built between Maoists and insurgents in Kashmir). A lot more effort to build a sort of interaction. A lot of movement of known Maoist sympathisers now travelling to Srinagar and organising seminars and conferences with supporters of militant violence in Jammu and Kashmir as well,” he said in reply to a question. He alleged that not only were there visible links but also several covert connections between the two. “There are visible links on public platforms. There are also invisible links that are sought to be built with universities and also the active militants on the ground,” the Chief Minister said. Omar was apparently alluding to Maoist sympathisers like writer-activist Arundhati Roy who had expressed support to Kashmiri separatists at a programme here where pro-Azadi slogans were also raised. Later, Roy and others visited Jammu and Kashmir to espouse their cause. He said the state was now witnessing a new form of violence in the form of stone-pelting. “In Jammu and Kashmir, there has been a gradual shift in traditional insurgency involving violence with guns, bombs and things like that to a new dimension that emerged over the last three years starting in 2008, which is a more orchestrated civil protest sort of system,” Omar said. Chief Minister insisted that due to militancy and violence, Jammu and Kashmir could never hope to compete with big states. “We know we can’t compete with the big states. We know that in the glamour quotient, we will never be able to match the Maharashtras, Gujarats, Andhra Pradeshs and even our northern neighbours like Himachal Pradesh,” he said. Omar maintained that insurgency had affected all aspects of governance in the state. “What we have lived through is the actual effects of violence and insurgency on every aspect of governance - on our ability to generate investment, on our ability to actually govern, on our ability to conduct elections in which people are free to vote as they wish to, in our ability to provide services which people in other parts of the country take for granted,” he said. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 10:20:30 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 10:20:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?JK_militants=2C_Naxals_linked=3A_O?= =?windows-1252?q?mar_=91Maoist_Sympathisers_Travelling_To_Srinagar?= =?windows-1252?q?=2C_Organising_Seminars=92?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chief Minister insisted that due to militancy and violence, Jammu and Kashmir could never hope to compete with big states. “We know we can’t compete with the big states. We know that in the glamour quotient, we will never be able to match the Maharashtras, Gujarats, Andhra Pradeshs and even our northern neighbours like Himachal Pradesh,” he said. and so the Chief Minister fell for the glamour quotient. this statement truly shows what our politicians want for their states. what they want to achieve, their concern for the people. On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Samvit wrote: > JK militants, Naxals linked: Omar > ‘Maoist Sympathisers Travelling To Srinagar, Organising Seminars’ > PRESS TRUST OF INDIA > > > http://greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/20/jk-militants-naxals-linked-omar-47.asp > > New Delhi, Nov 19: Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah > Friday said that there were “visible and invisible links” among the > militants in his state, the Maoists, Left-leaning academicians and > supporters. > “We have no experience with Maoist insurgency even though of late we > find efforts being made to build bridges between the Maoists and > Naxalites of the rest of India with militants of Kashmir and also some > Left-thinking academicians and students in Jammu region as well,” Omar > said. > He was speaking at a seminar organised in New Delhi by the India Today > Group on “State of States in India”. > “We have seen evidence of it (of bridges being built between Maoists > and insurgents in Kashmir). A lot more effort to build a sort of > interaction. A lot of movement of known Maoist sympathisers now > travelling to Srinagar and organising seminars and conferences with > supporters of militant violence in Jammu and Kashmir as well,” he said > in reply to a question. > He alleged that not only were there visible links but also several > covert connections between the two. > “There are visible links on public platforms. There are also invisible > links that are sought to be built with universities and also the > active militants on the ground,” the Chief Minister said. > Omar was apparently alluding to Maoist sympathisers like > writer-activist Arundhati Roy who had expressed support to Kashmiri > separatists at a programme here where pro-Azadi slogans were also > raised. Later, Roy and others visited Jammu and Kashmir to espouse > their cause. > He said the state was now witnessing a new form of violence in the > form of stone-pelting. > “In Jammu and Kashmir, there has been a gradual shift in traditional > insurgency involving violence with guns, bombs and things like that to > a new dimension that emerged over the last three years starting in > 2008, which is a more orchestrated civil protest sort of system,” Omar > said. > Chief Minister insisted that due to militancy and violence, Jammu and > Kashmir could never hope to compete with big states. > “We know we can’t compete with the big states. We know that in the > glamour quotient, we will never be able to match the Maharashtras, > Gujarats, Andhra Pradeshs and even our northern neighbours like > Himachal Pradesh,” he said. > Omar maintained that insurgency had affected all aspects of governance > in the state. > “What we have lived through is the actual effects of violence and > insurgency on every aspect of governance - on our ability to generate > investment, on our ability to actually govern, on our ability to > conduct elections in which people are free to vote as they wish to, in > our ability to provide services which people in other parts of the > country take for granted,” he said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 11:35:09 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 11:35:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Shouldn=B9t_Vir=2C_Barkha_step_down_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?now=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually the 2 cases are different. Barkha Dutt just agrees to pass on a message to Ghulam Nabi Azad asking him to contact Karunanidhi directly. This in itself is not criminal. Neither do we know whether she did indeed pass on the message or was just humoring Radia. Vir Sanghvi is on much shakier ground. He actually has Radia dictate his column on the Ambani feud to favour Mukesh Ambani while pretending to do so in the national interest. Though not sure whether he ends up passing messages to the Congress or indeed is just humoring Radia. What's pretty clear from all these tapes is the entrenched nexus between politicians, corporations and the media. Note that in her conversation with Ratan Tata, Radia bemoans how greedy the media has become! On 19/11/10 9:41 PM, "Samvit" wrote: > This is such excellent stuff. It seems like a piece from a soap opera > with all the masala of intrigue, deceit, backstabbers, etc. The dark > and dirty side of the Congress and Barkha is so openly portrayed. > Barkha who has/had this image of "holier than thou!!" comes out like a > broker in the audio tapes. And there are people who call > Karunanidhi..."us, buddhe ko bo do!!!" > > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 7:04 PM, SJabbar wrote: >> Check out the Outlook website for more dirt.  Here's just one of the >> sickening audios. >> >> http://business.outlookindia.com/view.aspx?vname=16-CongApniDukan20090522-17 >> 0040.wav >> >> >> On 19/11/10 4:10 PM, "Aditya Raj Kaul" wrote: >> >>>    Shouldn¹t Vir, Barkha step down now? >> GN Bureau | November 19 2010 >> >> Nira >>> Radia, a PR professional ­ or to put it plainly, a lobbyist ­ dictated >> what >>> goes into senior editor Vir Sanghvi¹s column and what NDTV anchor >> Barkha Dutt >>> should tell the Congress ahead of cabinet formation, going by >> the telephonic >>> conversations authorities tapped (read the >>> transcripts >> hereor read a report >> here >>> ). >> >> There¹s much >>> more here than merely consulting an expert before writing a >> column or >>> anchoring a story. Veteran and iconic journalists purportedly took >> brief from >>> a corporate lobbyist and purportedly coordinated the backdoor >> wheeling-dealing >>> of a cabinet formation on behalf of business tycoons, if >> these tapes are >>> authentic. While we are in no position to endorse the >> content, wouldn¹t these >>> opinion-makers have asked a politician to resign >> pending an inquiry? >> >> The >>> tapes reveal the ugly side of two of our venerable four estates. >> >> As for the >>> media, a veteran editor who plays a role in helping millions of >> readers form >>> opinion (we are being charitable here), stands compromised. >> This is only an >>> extension of the business of paid news (read our analysis >> and the Press >>> Council¹s unpublicised >>> report >> here>> ls-sham-report-hide-indian-medias-shame%29>. >> While the other three estates >>> have a degree of public accountability, >> the >> fourth estate goes scot free. A >>> voter can question an MP once in five years, >> but as a reader she has no way to >>> question the editor. >> >> As for the polity, the tapes raise the spectre of >>> Œcorporate democracy¹, for >> the corporates, by the corporates and of the >>> corporates. To stem this trend, >> as a small step, shouldn¹t the guardians of >>> the public interest ­ Hindustan >> Times and NDTV in this case ­ ask Sanghvi and >>> Dutt to step down and face >> inquiry? >> >>   -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> India Editor >> The >>> Indian, Australia >> >> Web: >>> http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & >>> Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 20 18:03:14 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 04:33:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=98Take_Kashmiri_society_into_confi?= =?utf-8?q?dence_over_return_of_pandits=27_-_KN_Pandita_=28JKNM=29?= Message-ID: <568780.68589.qm@web120214.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> It is good to see that, from amongst the KPs, some of the saner voices (who I have no doubt form the overwhelming majority) are more frequently articulating their opinions and attitudes in public space.   This public and media perception has to be strongly countered by KPs that narrow visioned groups like Panun Kashmir are the sole representative voices from amongst the KPs.   Groups like Panun Kashmir who do not have the support of even the rabid Hindutvavaadis from the RSS and BJP, by demanding a carving out of Kashmir of the Panun Kashmir 'Indian Territory' are doing little else than confirming on behalf of the 'separatists' that Kashmir is no longer "Indian Territory"    " "The Government should take several confidence building measures before any rehabilitation of 70,000 displaced Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley, the most important measure being taking into confidence civil society of Kashmir," Chairman of JKNM K N Pandita said here on Friday. " "The organisation demanded constitution of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to find the exact reasons of displacement, fix responsibility, bridge the gulf between the two communities of the Valley and also lay down the roadmap for return of all displaced persons, it said."   ......... aalok aima   http://www.earlytimes.in/newsdet.aspx?q=63311     ‘Take Kashmiri society into confidence over return of pandits'   11/19/2010 EARLY TIMES REPORT   JAMMU, Nov 19: The Jammu and Kashmir government should initiate confidence building measures including taking the civilian society into confidence before rehabilitating displaced Kashmiri Hindus in the Valley, Jammu and Kashmir Nationalist Movement (JKNM) has said. "The Government should take several confidence building measures before any rehabilitation of 70,000 displaced Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley, the most important measure being taking into confidence civil society of Kashmir," Chairman of JKNM K N Pandita said here on Friday. There is a natural instinct in people of the Kashmir Valley to return to their land with honour and dignity, he said while releasing a 20-page booklet released by the group on confidence building measures that the state government should take. According to the booklet, the module for rehabilitation of the community in the Valley must ensure its participation in decision making mechanisms while safeguarding the peoples' political, economic, religious and cultural interests. The onus of creating a conducive environment for return of the displaced pandits lies essentially with Kashmir's civil society and all initiatives in this direction need to be facilitated by the state government, it said. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah is being requested to take initiatives to address the concerns of the displaced community regarding its rehabilitation in the Valley and also to facilitate deliberations between the Prime Minister and representatives of the community, JKNM said in its booklet. The organisation demanded constitution of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to find the exact reasons of displacement, fix responsibility, bridge the gulf between the two communities of the Valley and also lay down the roadmap for return of all displaced persons, it said. The booklet also said that there should be enrolment of migrant voters and census of the displaced community members at the earliest for complete update of records. From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 18:13:54 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 18:13:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Bakra Movement in Pakistan Message-ID: Goat talk BY NADEEM F. PARACHA This Bakra Eid, many Pakistanis received the following SMS: ³Aafia Movement ki tarraf sey aap sab koh Bakra Eid Mubarak. Dr. Aafia ki eid aik bar phir qaid-e-tanhai mein guzrey gi. Shame.² (Eid Mubarak to all of you from the Aafia Movement. This year again, Aafia will spend her Eid in solitary confinement.² Curious as to who or what this ŒAafia Movement¹ was, I decided to reply to the third such SMS. I wrote: ³Bakra Movement ki taraf say aik eelan (an announcement from the Bakra Movement): what about us bakras who get slaughtered every Bakra Eid?² ³Who this is?² came the reply. ³This is the leader bakra of the Bakra Movement,² I wrote back. ³Why you joke about Dr. Aafia?² ³I no joke about Aafia. I only serious about my bakra brothers. Why you slaughter them?² ³It is every Muslim¹s duty to slaughter bakras on Bakra Eid. Are you Muslim?² ³Alhamdulillah! I am a Muslim bakra.² ³Why you joke like this? Aafia is in pain!² ³So are thousands of other Aafia¹s and Arifs, Saleema¹s and Saleem¹s of Bakistan, why is there no movement for them?² ³Why you saying Bakistan instead of Pakistan?² ³Why you saying, bakra instead of pakra?² ³You are idiot.² ³No, I am leader of the Bakra Movement; if I am idiot, then the leader of the Aafia Movement is also an idiot.² ³You are not true Muslim. It is because people like you Aafia in jail of America.² ³And it because of people like you thousands of local Aafias are rotting in Bakistani jails for blasphemy and hudood crimes. Bakra Movement is for them because they are all helpless bakris (she goats).² ³What your name?? I will see you and teach u lesson.² ³Oh, goodie. Can you give me swimming lessons?² ³How you joke about Aafia? How dare. You baighayrat (shameful) Pakistani!² ³Wow! How did you know my name?² ³Your name is Baighayrat?² ³Full name: Baighayrat Bakistani, leader of the Bakra Movement working for the welfare of all innocent goats and cows in Bakistani jails!² ³They are criminals!² ³What about those who raped and tortured them, or framed them under blasphemy law?² ³You are not a Muslim nor are you human.² ³I am Muslim bakra. Humans are cruel. Baaaaa!² ³You are mad. Stop making fun of Aafia.² ³Stop making fun of thousands of innocent bakris in Bakistani jails.² ³Why you keep saying Bakistan? It is Pakistan.² ³I am an Arab Muslim bakra.² ³If you Arab, then you defend Aafia.² ³Arabs don¹t even know who she is.² ³Stop making fun of Arabs.² ³Stop making fun of Bakistanis.² ³I not make fun.² ³It shows. Please, make fun. Life would be better and less stressful.² ³You are little man with little thinking.² ³I am not man. I am big bakra. ³You hateful man, I will teach lesson to you. I will see you!² ³Yes, I will see you too, in hell. Baaaa.² I just can¹t write what Mr. ŒAafia Movement¹ had to say to me after this. Things and words which were not very Islamic, doing Aafia proud? Only God knows. Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com. From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 20 20:01:51 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 06:31:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] (Part I) When Is Secession Justified? The Context of Kashmir Message-ID: <332980.98471.qm@web120208.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> a well argued essay that (in the context of kashmir) differentiates between "self determination" and "secession",  explores the justifications for "secession", the associated "rights" and the "conflicting rights"   ............ aalok aima    http://epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/15369.pdf   (Part I) When Is Secession Justified? The Context of Kashmir   Neera Chandhoke Economic & Political Weekly  november 13, 2010 vol xlv no 46     Given the turmoil in Kashmir today, a number of right-thinking people have come to defend the right of the people of Kashmir to a state of their own; or more simply that the Kashmiri people possess the right of secession via the right of self-determination. But if self-determination has proved to be the veritable will-o’-the-wisp in recent history – since it begs the question of which entity possesses this right, and by virtue of what do the people of a region possess this right – secession is one of the most difficult of concepts that political theorists have had to take on board after the “ethnic explosion” that shook the world at the turn of the 1990s. Do people have the right to establish their own state quite in the same manner as they have the right to elect their own government? How do we justify secession? What are the moral considerations that we need to weigh the right of secession against? This essay seeks to negotiate these very questions in the context of Kashmir.   When W H Auden penned the following lines: “Abruptly mounting her ramshackle wheel, Fortune had pedalled furiously away. The sobbing mess is on our hands today” (Auden 1945: 3), he could well have been describing the “sobbing mess” that the state of Jammu and Kashmir (J and K), or more particularly the Kashmir Valley is embroiled in today. The thought cannot, but, be overcome by deep grief and regret. Only if democracy had been institutionalised in J and K, only if the Government of India (in sordid alliance with opportunistic state governments in the region) had not majorly violated its own commitment to the state; that of the grant of special status, and only if the Indian state had honoured the basic rights of the people of the Valley, fortune need not have mounted its ramshackle wheel and pedalled furiously away.   It is not as if the Kashmiri people have not spoken back to a h istory that is not of their own making. By the turn of the 1990s, resentment at the manipulation of electoral democracy as well as erosion of the constitutionally guaranteed status of the region broke all bounds, and the Valley erupted in a series of violent demonstrations. Because signifi cant political groups were barred from the electoral arena, they turned to other means, particularly to the gun, and to other political agents, particularly to Pakistan. Resultantly, the abnormal politics of violent confrontation came to subjugate “normal” politics of participation and representation, negotiation and compromise, dialogue and contestation. And violence continues to wrack the Valley to date.   The tale of Kashmir’s tragedy could, perhaps, have been foretold as early as 1953. The Government of India desperate to prevent further balkanisation of the country entangled in a war not of its own making with Pakistan, pilloried in the United Nations Security Council by major western powers that had turned against India, and pressurised by right wing groups to integrate Kashmir into the country, was to adopt extremely short-sighted policies in J and K. In retrospect it is surprising that the Government of India failed to recognise that it was not dealing with a population that had been rendered acquiescent under princely rule. It was dealing with a people that had mobilised against the misrule of the Hindu monarch since the 1930s. It was this politically aware population that was to witness a series of cataclysmic events in the aftermath of 1947, the terror and the atrocities inflicted by Pakistan-backed raiders in 1947, the disruption that followed the 1948 Indo-Pak war and the resultant partition of the state between two, and then three countries. Above all this the population bore witness to the deliberate and insistent breach of contractual and constitutional obligations by the Government of India. Yet the Kashmiri people were prepared to give democracy and constitutional commitments a chance. But it was precisely this that was denied to them. Consequently, 43 years after the accession of the state to India the widespread belief that the Indian state could deliver to the people of the state neither democracy nor justice generated secessionist demands, nothing short of azaadi. “Though nothing can be immortall, which mortals make; yet, if men had the use of reason they pretend to, their Commonwealths might be secured, at least, from perishing by internall diseases” wrote Thomas Hobbes (1651, 1988: 170). But reason has not proved a constitutive aspect of the Kashmir policy of the Government of India. Therefore, the Commonwealth has not been properly secured.   Given the “sobbing mess” that Kashmir is in today, a number of right-thinking people have come to defend the right of the people of Kashmir to a state of their own; or more simply believe that the Kashmiri people possess the right of secession via the right of self determination. But if self-determination has proved to be the veritable will-o’-the-wisp in recent history, simply because it begs the question of which entity possesses this right, and by virtue of what does it possess this right, secession is one of the most difficult of concepts that political theorists have had to take on board after the “ethnic explosion” that shook the world at the turn of the 1990s. Do people have the right to establish their own state quite in the same manner as they have the right to elect their own government? How do we justify secession? What are the moral considerations that we need to weigh the right of secession against? This essay seeks to n egotiate these very questions in the context of Kashmir.   The Right of Secession If there was ever an age of innocence when it was believed that the assertion of a right is enough to endow it with moral and p olitical weight, those days have long passed. For the realisation of a right does not logically follow the assertion of a right. If a right has to acquire weight it has to be publicly justified on the basis of certain principles that are self-evidently moral, and which constitute what can be called the shared understandings of a society. Western political philosophers have been able to develop such principles, because they prefer to take as their conceptual referral, what can be termed consensual or procedural secessions, for example the case of Quebec. In 1996, Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien fi led a reference in the supreme court on the issue of Quebecois separatism. In its response in August 1998, the Canadian supreme court established the basic legal framework for secession. The court ruled that secession is neither sanctioned by the Constitution nor by international law. Any state whose government represents the whole of the people resident within its territory on a basis of equality and without discrimination, and which respects the principle of self determination in its own internal arrangements, is entitled to the protection of its territorial integrity by international law and institutions. It could not be seriously claimed that the population of Quebec was discriminated against. Therefore, Quebec could not, even if there was a clear result in a future referendum, invoke the right of self-determination in order to dictate the terms of proposed secession to other parties of the federation.   But though the court ruled that unilateral secession has no basis in law, it also held that clear popular support for secession can engender an obligation on the parent state to negotiate with the separatist leadership. All parties to the negotiation, determined the court, should be governed by four principles: federalism, democracy, constitutionalism and the rule of law, and the protection of minorities. The Government of Quebec alone does not have the power to determine what is, and what is not negotiable. Further, the government of a territory that intends to secede would have to address the interests of the federal government as well as those of other provinces, the rights of all Canadians both within and outside Quebec, the rights of aboriginals, and also consent to negotiate on matters of common concern, from the division of debt incurred for Quebec, to the settlement of boundaries.1 In sum, Quebecois can only be granted the right to secede if they fulfil certain requirements and adhere to certain processes after a referendum elicits the popular will. The quintessential liberal democratic framework laid down by the court has been adopted by a number of philosophers when they seek to justify secession (Moore 2001; also Philpott 1995).   The problem is that all parent states, and all separatist movements, do not follow a preordained script that has been indelibly etched onto the liberal stone. Most cases of secessions in the B alkans, the Caucasus, and in much of the post-colonial world, hardly fall into the category of consensual secessions. These can best be termed contested secessions. The two features that constitute secession as a contested political act are as follows. One, the state tries to militarily suppress even the intent to secede. Two, violence becomes the handmaiden of the secessionist movement. And since violence tends to breed violence, over time the trajectory of violence outstrips the initial reason for the outbreak of the movement. Violence, in effect, acquires a biography that begins and ends with violence itself.   Since contested secessions are usually stamped with the cloven hoof of extensive and immoderate violence, we do not require an astrologer to tell us that secession will, in all probability, inflict major harm upon populations who live in the disputed territory, as well as on populations who live outside the territory. It is not as if this aspect of secession is not recognised by liberal philosophers. Allen Buchanan (1997), for instance, suggests that the right of secession is a “remedial right only” or a right that acquires salience in very specific circumstances. But at the same time he also suggests that if “the only effective remedy against selective tyranny is to oppose the government, then a strategy of opposition that stops short of attempting to overthrow the government ( revolution), but merely seeks to remove one’s group and the territory it occupies from the control of the state (secession), seems both morally unexceptionable and, relatively speaking, moderate” (p 36, italics added). Despite all the wariness he shows on the issue of secession, Buchanan seems to completely underestimate the scale of the tragedy that even attempted partitions of territory and people have led to in major parts of the world.   For instance, in Sri Lanka, an estimated 7,000 Tamil civilians were killed, and 72,000 civilians were displaced from their homes by the Sri Lankan army, as well as by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, in the last phase of the civil war between January 2009 and May 2009 alone.2 For 26 years the country was torn by violence, which extracted a heavy toll. In 1971, when East Pakistan declared itself independent of Pakistan, an estimated three million people died in the war between the new state of Bangladesh and the parent country. About 8 to 10 million were rendered homeless (Bose 2005). In another historical context, A E Housman (1940) had written: “They say my verse is sad: no wonder, Its narrow measure spans, Tears of eternity and sorrow, Not mine, but man’s” (p 155). These lines may well provide the epigraph of contested secessions.   If the infliction of major harm is one of the fallouts of contested secessions, other features also occasion worry. For example, no one can deny the strong empirical correlation between ethnonationalist groups and demands for secession. But ethnonationalist groups are not precisely known for either their commitment to liberalism, or to democracy. Their justification of secession rests on other (debatable) grounds. Take the Kashmiri separatist leader and Islamic patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who has for long argued that J and K should join Pakistan because Hindus and Muslims in India belong to two different nations, even if they live in the same territory. For a Muslim to stay among Hindus, he reportedly argues, is as diffi cult as it is “for a fish to stay in a desert”.3 Considering the dreadful history of the two nation t heory, should democrats even consider supporting this particular claim, and this particular leader who has for some strange reason shot into prominence during recent protests in the valley? More signifi cantly, if the main legitimacy claim for an i ndependent state of J and K is constituted by the two nation t heory, what will happen to the minorities in the new state? What will be the fate of women in this “Islamic” state? Will they be c ondemned to lead the kind of lives that extremist women organisations in the Valley insist they should be leading? Should we even be considering an ideology whose credentials as justification are so deeply fl awed? In short, when our right-thinking friends defend the right of secession, do they even take into a ccount the illiberal nature of the group that demands a state of its own?   Let us not mistake the matter. Secession not only involves rejection of the sovereignty of the existing state over the territory and the population the separatists claim as their own, and reneging of political obligation, it also involves abdication of moral o bligation to people who do not belong to the community in question. Secessionists are not revolutionaries who dream of a better future for all; they simply do not care what will happen to their former compatriots who will be left behind, all that they want is to opt out of the existing state and create a state of their own. And if perchance secession is demanded by the leaders of a religious group that is both close-minded and chauvinistic, we have cause to fear for the fate of those who will perforce live in this state. This is not to dismiss the right of secession because in some cases there is no other option; it is merely to suggest that (a) the right does not stand on the same ground as other rights, and (b) it can be justifi ed on very specific grounds.   When Is Secession Justified? Let us assume for a start that our collective agent P (which is s ettled on its homeland) has the right to secede from state S and establish a state of its own Si, provided two preconditions hold. The fi rst precondition is that P should have been subjected to insti tutionalised injustice by the state. The notion of “institutionalised injustice” holds that discrimination and coercion are built into the institutional structures that govern the daily lives of a particular group of citizens. Therefore, members of P are neither p rotected against certain acts that harm them, nor enabled to access the goods they have rights to. We can, for the purpose of this argument, identify at least two categories of institutionalised injustice.   Within the fi rst category of institutionalised injustice falls d iscrimination. That is P is denied the same rights that protect other persons who live under the jurisdiction of S. Therefore, P will not have access to the same opportunities, the same privileges, and the same immunities as other members of say M, or N, or Y that live under the jurisdiction of S. In extreme cases, the lives of the collective can be at risk because they are no longer protected by basic rights. In such cases, P, we can conclude, has been subjected to institutionalised injustice because it has been systemically discriminated against.   The second form of institutionalised injustice that a group can be subjected to follows the breaking of contracts that have granted to the region a specifi c kind of political status, say regional autonomy. Within a federal system, a particular territory may be granted special rights for a variety of reasons. For example, the territory may be inhabited by indigenous people, who are governed by their customary laws. Being a vulnerable community, the group will need to be protected through special contractual provisions, or at least statutory commitments. Or the territory in question may have been previously autonomous, and joined the larger political unit on certain terms and conditions that are specifi ed in a contract. The clauses in the contract stipulate the powers and the limits of the two parties to the contract, grant to the inhabitants of the area certain powers and immunities, and give to them the right to govern themselves within the compass of regional autonomy. In case the provisions of the contract are violated by the central government, the inhabitants of the territory, we can say, have been subjected to institutionalised injustice.   Note that in the first of the two cases cited above, our P has been subjected to institutionalised injustice because its members are denied the same rights that are available to the rest of the citizens in the polity. In the second case, P has been subjected to injustice because the contractual provisions that governed the accession of P to the larger country, and that gave to the region a distinct political status, have been infringed. Arguably, if a group of citizens who are settled in a piece of territory they identify as a homeland have been subjected to both these forms of injustice, they have the right to secede. That makes the right of secession, just like the right to protest, the right to practise civil disobedience, and the right to revolution, a contingent right. That is, the right can be justifi ably claimed only in the context of institutionalised injustice.   The second precondition for a justifi ed right of secession is that institutionalised injustice should be irrevocable. That is, we should be able to assess that the state is not likely to reverse its policies, compensate the victims for harm done, and institutionalise just procedures and institutions before we proceed to justify secession.   This interpretation takes as its conceptual referral the report of two commissions set up by the League of Nations to inquire into a dispute concerning the status of Aaland Islands.4 After excluding the existence of a general right to secede, the Commission of Rapporteurs observed that “the separation of a minority from the State of which it formed part and its incorporation into another State may only be considered as an altogether exceptional solution, a last resort, when the State lack either the will or the power to enact and apply just and effective guarantees”.5   When does a state lack either the will or the power to enact and apply just and effective guarantees? For this we need to recognise that there is no such thing as a perfectly democratic or just state. Most formal democracies are imperfectly democratic and weakly just. It follows that the project of democracy has to be realised through determined and intentional political practices. If one objective of these practices is to check abuses of power by the government, the second objective is to press upon the government the need to reverse or withdraw policies and actions that are palpably unjust. The one virtue of democracy is that it can prove self-correcting; provided decisions and policies are subjected to a vigilant and democratic civil society, and scrutinised by institutionalised checks and balances.   Taking these factors into consideration we can suggest that the right of secession is justifi ed if:   (i) A group living in a particular region has been subjected to institutionalised injustice that arises out of (a) the deliberate violation of core moral rights and resultant discrimination, (b) violation of contracts that grant to that region a special political status.   (ii) P is unable to access institutions and procedures that can help reverse institutionalised discrimination, such as voice in participative and representative institutions, the ability to hold state offi cials accountable, appeals to an impartial judiciary committed to upholding justice, access to human rights and civil liberties groups in civil society, and to a free media that can highlight injustice. These groups and organisations, it has been suggested, possess the potential to press the democratic state to reverse institutionalised injustice, and thus further realise both democracy and justice.   (iii) Institutionalised injustice is beyond recall and beyond redemption because P does not have access to the safeguardsagainst injustice outlined in B.   The right of secession is, therefore, contingent not only because it can be justifi ed in cases of injustice but when this injustice is irrevocable, that is when the existing state shows no intent of r eversing discriminatory policies and practices that target P, compensating for past injustices or institutionalising procedures that can realise overdue justice for P.   P, in other words, does not have access to condition B. If this argument holds, it follows that injustice can only be irreversible in undemocratic states, because these states have not institutionalised a system of checks that can help curb injustice, or at least compensate for harm done. Nor do these states possess democratic civil societies with the power to intervene in cases of injustice. The case of Bangladesh’s secession from Pakistan can therefore be justifi ed. But India happens to be a formal d emocracy, albeit an imperfect one. In light of this particular consideration let us now see whether the right of secession can be justified in Kashmir.   (continued in Part II) From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 20 20:18:37 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 06:48:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] (Part II) When Is Secession Justified? The Context of Kashmir Message-ID: <542703.27283.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> a well argued essay that (in the context of kashmir) differentiates between "self determination" and "secession",  explores the justifications for "secession", the associated "rights" and the "conflicting rights"   ............ aalok aima    http://epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/15369.pdf   (Part II) When Is Secession Justified? The Context of Kashmir   Neera Chandhoke Economic & Political Weekly  november 13, 2010 vol xlv no 46   (continued from Part I)   The Case in Kashmir We can conclude that the people of the state have been subjected to institutionalised injustice. The special status allotted to the state by the Constitution, and by subsequent political contracts, has been wilfully subverted, and the core moral rights of the people of the Valley have been seriously violated by security forces after the outbreak of militancy in J and K. Yet can we also subscribe to the view that this injustice, although serious, is irrevocable? Injustice cannot be seen as irrevocable if people have the right to access the judiciary, and if civil society organisations possess the capacity to press for the repudiation of injustice. Since the latter years of the decade of the 1990s, processes of electoral democracy have been re-established in the state, and regional parties have come to power. The political space has also been opened up with a new political party emerging onto the scene in 2002. Both the regional parties are committed to negotiate for the reinstatement of the special status of J and K. Some civil liberty groups in India have powerfully highlighted the deliberate violations of civil rights of the people in the Valley by the security forces and draconian laws, and demanded the restoration of justice. And in the Valley a number of civil society organisations have made human rights issues, encounter deaths, rapes, and disappearances, their major concern.   Admittedly, the re-establishment of full democracy (lifting of all coercive laws) and the reinstatement of the special status of the state is a process that is precarious, and, therefore, in constant danger of being subverted. Nevertheless the onus for sorting out the Kashmir issue is, I suggest, on India’s chaotic but occasionally inspired, energetic, and resourceful civil society. But too many civil society agents have been infl uenced by offi cial dismissal of the struggle in the Valley as terrorism, and as the handiwork of neighbouring countries, and far too many agents have been prejudiced against the militants by reasons of a corrosive nationalism, and a biased media. In the process they have forgotten what the mandate of a democratic civil society is. If there is one thing that democratic civil societies worth their name cannot afford, it is indifference to institutionalised injustice. If our democratic civil society is prepared to mount an onslaught on the Indian state for sins of omission and commission, and if the state is prepared to acknowledge the extent of historical injustice visited on the heads of the Kashmiri people, and make amends, the right of secession in Kashmir is a weak one.   A right can be typed as a weak right when substantial moral considerations mediate the realisation of the right. The process of justifying a right implies that this right has to be balanced against relevant moral considerations, which have a bearing upon the right. Some of the moral considerations that have an immediate bearing upon the right of secession in Kashmir are (a) injustice might not be irrevocable even if the Indian state is imperfectly just and inadequately democratic, (b) the infl iction of major harm, (c) the illiberal nature of the group that demands a state of its own, and (d) the presence of third party agents who coming in from neighbouring countries have hijacked protests against the way-laying of democracy, and bent them towards jehad. Above all, and this is the fi fth moral consideration, what about the rights of people in the state of J and K who do not want to secede?   According to the 2001 Census in J and K, Muslims form 66.97% of the population, Hindus 29.63%, the Sikhs 2.04%, and Buddhists 1.2%.6 The Muslims constitute a majority in the state but the community is divided by language and sect. Sunni Muslims live mainly in the Kashmir Valley and in two districts in Jammu, in Poonch Muslims speak Punjabi, and Kargil is peopled by Shias. Jammu and the foothill are dominated by Hindus, and Leh by Buddhists. For all these groups as well as for numerous smaller groups such as Gujjars, Bakkarwals, Kashmiri Pandits, Dogras, and Buddhists the state of J and K is homeland.7   The demand for secession has erupted mainly in the Valley of Kashmir, and in the two Muslim-dominated districts of Jammu. But though the Muslim community forms an overwhelming m ajority of the population in Kashmir, for the Kashmiri Hindus and Sikhs the Valley is home as well. In the wake of the 1990 popular uprising in the Valley, 95% of the Valley’s 1,50,000 to 1,60,000 Hindus were forced to leave their homes and their work places, because they were threatened by poster campaigns, the use of Islamic slogans during processions, and newspaper declarations that J and K was poised to be an Islamic state.8 Notably, Sikhs and moderate Muslims have also been forced to leave the Valley that has been their home for centuries (Evans 2002: 19-37).   More significantly, the demand for secession by militant Muslim groups in the Valley has propelled the politicisation of other identity groups. The Buddhist community in Ladakh had begun to assert a distinct identity as far back as the 1930s, when the Muslim-dominated National Conference had mobilised to c hallenge the discriminatory policies of the Hindu ruler.9 The Buddhists held that they preferred to be governed directly by the Government of India, or be amalgamated with Hindu majority regions in Jammu, or join East Punjab, or be reunited with Tibet. With the outbreak of militancy in the state in 1990, the Buddhist population in Ladakh began to agitate for union territory status under the direct control of the Government of India.10   In Jammu, the predominantly Hindu community had, from the time of accession, been uncomfortable with regional autonomy granted to J and K, given that the state is dominated by the Muslim community. Developments after 1947 fuelled suspicions that the Government of India preferred to deal with the Muslim leadership in the Valley, and that it tended to neglect the interests of other religious groups. These fears led to the politicisation of the Hindu community under the leadership of the Hindu right, which demands integration of J and K into the Indian Union, and abolition of the special status of J and K.   Whether the politicisation of identities in Jammu and in Ladakh on religious lines is politically desirable is a relevant question, but not the issue at hand for this argument. Without defending right wing Hindu fundamentalism, we can acknowledge that the crucial issue is that of competing identities. Over the years the regional divide has been exacerbated, generating both plural and incommensurate voices on the future of the state, and the intensifi cation of intra-state tensions.11 Ironically, whereas the Valley-based leadership calls for either independence or restoration of regional autonomy, it seems to oppose the grant of subregional autonomy to other groups.   Matters have become even more complicated because the former residents of the Kashmir Valley, the exiled Hindu Kashmiri community have begun to agitate for a separate homeland comprising the region to the east of the Valley and the north of river Jhelum (The Hindu 2007: 5). The homeland should have, it is claimed, the status of a Union Territory governed by the central government. The other group that has demanded autonomy from Kashmir is the Gujjar community that constitutes 9% of the state’s population. The Gujjars who form the third-largest community in J and K are Muslim nomads. They were granted in 1991 the status of a scheduled tribe (ST). This has led to the politicisation of the Pahari people who speak a distinct language, and who consider themselves as possessing a separate identity. The group has begun to demand separation from the Valley, as well as a distinct political status. The residents of the Chenab Valley have also put forth a claim for an Autonomous Hill Council (Behera 2006: 128-30). In sum, not only is there no consensus on the issue of secession in the state, different groups of residents conceptualise the future of the state in incommensurable ways.   Let us now reflect on the two factors that have signifi cant bearing on the right of secession. One, even if the separatist leadership commits to minority rights in the new state, groups other than the Muslim majority in the Valley simply do not subscribe to the project of secession. Two, all these groups have begun to lay claim to (a) a distinct administrative status within the region, and (b) closer integration of the state into the country. In other words, not only do these groups desire a dilution of the special status granted to the state, they also desire a looser form of subfederalism within the state, with some units being administered directly by the central government. We can, of course, hold that only the residents of the Valley of Kashmir should be allowed the right to secede. Since their civil liberties have been violated, we can argue, they have been subjected to double injustice. But this course of action carries adverse implications for the moderate Muslims who do not share aspirations for a separate state, as well as for Sikhs and Hindus for whom the valley is home. Most of them have been practically forced out of the Valley. However given their historic links with Kashmir, should they not be consulted on the future of the Valley? Do the rights of the secessionists outweigh the rights of minorities completely?   The Problem of Conflicting Rights What we see here is the making of a serious moral dilemma born out of the confl ict between P’s right of secession, and the rights of other groups in the territory not to secede. Conflict between rights is, of course, not peculiar to the right of secession alone; it is endemic to rights. Since rights are asserted and claimed in a context that is indisputably social, and, therefore, one that is marked by both a scarcity of resources and imperfect altruism, the rights of P can affect the rights of Q. How do we then trade off the P’s right with Q’s right?   Two courses of action can be adopted to resolve the issue. It can be argued that P’s R to G is more signifi cant than Q’s R to Gi. But this would mean that P’s rights override Q’s rights. A tradeoff between rights is simply not a desirable option because it infringes the basic assumption of rights; that is inviolability. Much more desirable is a second option; that the scale of the good P and Q lay claim to is reduced for both. The advantage is that the rights of both agents are realised, albeit to a lesser degree than initially envisaged. What is signifi cant is that the trade-off in this case is not between two sets of rights. The trade-off is between the full realisation of the good the right is a right to (for one agent), and a realisation of a reduced scale of the good (for both). If we follow the second course of action, the one alternative to the right of secession, which if realised will harm other agents, is to fulfi l the substance of the right within the existing state, in the form of the institutionalisation of self-determination through r egional autonomy, representation, and protection of minority rights. But then what exactly does self-determination mean?   A Brief Biography of Self-Determination It is well known that after the end of the fi rst world war, US President Woodrow Wilson placed the principle of national selfdetermination squarely onto the global agenda. The principle however proved to be contentious. For by the beginning of the 20th century, the concept of the nation had come to be pluralised, between what came to be known later as civic and as organic nations. Wilson, however, simply did not seem to be aware of either these complexities in the concept of the nation, or of the knots in the fi lament that tied nations to self-determination, or properly states of their own. For him, the concept of a selfdetermining people, as Lynch has noted, was rooted in the Anglo- American tradition of civic nationalism, or the right of communities to democratic self-government. The idea that the principle could also emanate from traditions of collective or ethnic nationalism (Lynch 1999) in which nations are held to be collective agents that possess a distinct identity from their individual members, was quite alien to Wilson. It is not surprising that the moment he began to confront diffi culties in implementing the idea of national self-determination in eastern and central Europe, Wilson began to voice reservations about the concept, “in point of logic, of pure logic, this principle which was good in itself would lead to the complete independence of various small nationalities now forming part of various Empires. Pushed to its extreme, the principle would mean the disruption of existing governments, to an undefi nable extent” (Lynch 1999: 19). Ultimately, the ambiguous and the troubled principle of national self-determination was not incorporated into the Covenant of the League of Nations even though it was employed to split up numerous defeated territories in eastern Europe, Balkans and the west Asia to create new states. Notably who got their state and who did not was contingent on the political calculations of the great powers and not on the will of the nation concerned.12   The irony is that even though the League rejected the concept of national self-determination, the principle came to strongly shape the popular aspirations of colonised people. It was foregrounded as the main rallying cry of nationalist movements against colonialism. Leaderships of freedom struggles across the colonised world set out to construct nations out of a plurality of different and diverse social groups. By the time the moment of decolonisation came around, however, national self-determination had been practically banished from the domain of international law. Though the right of colonised people to independence via the principle of self-determination was recognised as the cornerstone of the new order, now the entity that possessed this right was “the people” who inhabited a territory under colonial rule. The substitution of the concept of the “people” for that of the “ nation” as the bearer of the right of self-determination carried at least three power ful messages. One, territorial borders were s acrosanct via the principle of Uti Possideti Juris; two, the UN clearly privileged the liberal democratic notion of people as the locus of popular sovereignty over ethnic nations and ethno- nationalism, and, three, national groups within the territory did not have the right to their own state. The only successful case of secession in the period after 1945 has been that of Bangladesh. But Bangladesh was not placed in the category of national self-determination outside the colonial context. Recognised by the UN some three years after the country had seceded from Pakistan, the independence of Bangladesh was seen as a fait accompli. A fter Bangladesh, the UN has recognised four countries that a cquired independent status as a result of unilateral secession and armed confl icts: Slovenia in 1991, Croatia in 1991, Eritrea in 1993, and East Timor in 2002. But the emergence of the first three states was attributed to causes other than secession (dissolution of a state or of a federation). East Timor was placed in the c ategory of non-self-governing territory which had the right to self-determination.   The irony is, however, that secessionist movements continue to invoke the principle of national self-determination to justify s ecession, and post-colonial states continue to legitimise themselves by creating nations out of a welter of heterogeneous populations. In country after country language policies, or religion, or ethnicity, have been employed as a tool to forge nations out of plural populations. This has proved as we have seen in the case of Pakistan and Sri Lanka, politically suicidal. The problem is that no agent apart from the state concerned has the authority to i ntervene in gross forms of injustice regularly meted out to m inorities by states. The UN is proscribed from interfering in the domestic affairs of its member states via Article 2 (7) of the Charter. Significantly, the UN has begun to take cognisance of the, often, endangered rights of minorities within nation states. For instance, in General Assembly Resolution 2625 (1970), the ritual invocation of the principle of territorial integrity carried an important addendum: “Nothing in the foregoing paragraphs shall be construed as authorising or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States conducting themselves in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples…and thus possessed of a government representing the whole people belonging to the territory without distinction as to race, creed, or colour” (italics added).13 The UN General Assembly’s “Declaration in Commemoration of the Fiftieth Anniversary of the United Nations” of 9 November 1995 echoed this warning.14 The implication of these declarations is plain; the international community will not tolerate any violation of the principle of territorial integrity, as long as states conduct themselves in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self-determination, and as long as the government represents the entire people.   If we follow the logic of this interpretation of self-determination, the realisation of the principle does not have to involve the violent renegotiation of territorial boundaries, except when the existing state denies self-determination to the people. Two implications follow this renegotiation. One, there is no essential link between self-determination and the right of secession; only a contingent one. That is, if states do not institutionalise appropriate conditions for the realisation of self-determination, then groups might have a right to secede. Two, if the argument that self-determination is best realised through institutions such as regional autonomy is acceptable, then the restoration of constitutionally sanctioned autonomy to J and K should not be seen as sui generis, or as exceptional to the state but as part of a larger plan of devolving power to territorially settled minority groups. Arguably self-determination is not only a means of staving off secession, it is good in its own right because it is part of a larger political pact that seeks to r ealise democracy through decentralisation of power and devolution of resources.   Therefore, the restoration of the special status granted to J and K by the Constitution of India and by a number of political agreements will not be only about redressing historical wrongs, the institutionalisation of self-determination might also serve to deliver justice in the context of the clashes of rights mentioned above. Notably, if the scale of the good P has asserted a right to is pruned from secession to self-determination, Q will also have to scale down the good it asserts a right to, say from non-secession to self-determination within the country. The advantage of such a mode of reconciling confl icting claims is that (a) the rights of both agents are realised, albeit to a lesser degree than initially envisaged, (b) it is recognised that P has been subjected to historical injustice, and (c) this injustice has to be reversed. This measure is but the start of a fuller process of restoring and realising justice in the beleaguered state of J and K. Fortune might be persuaded to pedal back to the region just as furiously as it pedalled away.   Conclusions Finally, let me ask one question of our right-thinking friends who defend secession. Is the alternative to the depredations of the n ation state the setting up of another nation state, which will inevitably be embedded in the same problems as our original model? States across the world suffer from pretty much the same malaise; an inherent tendency to accumulate and abuse power. State power can be controlled only through constitutions, rule of law, institutionalised rights, an independent judiciary, and above all a vibrant civil society, and systems of checks and balances. Secession is hardly a solution to the problem that besets groups; it might even be a part of the problem. Moreover, if often coercive efforts to build nations out of plural populations are the source of secessionist movements, the setting up of a state of one’s own, which cannot be but a clone of parent nation state, is hardly a s olution. The problem of the nation state is not resolved in this way; it is merely deferred. If the nation state has proved one of history’s most grievous mistakes, then many nation states can only reproduce this mistake. Instead of focusing on secession per se, we perhaps need to think out alternatives to the nation state; how the aspirations of minorities can be best realised within the state, and how sovereignty can be diluted through p olitical arrangements within the state.   Buchanan has put this point across well. He argues that secession challenges the ability of the political philosopher to reimagine the sort of political institutions and practices that govern individual and collective lives. The impulse to secede from an existing state, he alleges, betrays a fundamental lack of political imagination, because paradoxically, secession is one of the most conservative of political acts. The secessionist tends to assume that his problems are due to the state in which he fi nds himself, and that the solution is to get his own state. The anti-secessionist tends to be equally unimaginative, seeing in every demand for autonomy a threat to the existence of the state. The imaginations of both are cramped by the narrow horizons of the statist paradigm. What the usual rhetoric of both parties overlooks is that sovereignty can be unbundled in many ways, and that the only choice is not to stay in the state, or get away. Once we take seriously the indefi nitely large range of possible regimes of political differentiation within state borders, the rich menu of intra-state autonomy arrangements, we liberate ourselves from the confining assumptions of self-determination. There are various inter- and intra-state autonomy regimes that can cope with, or serve to avoid secessionist confl icts. Therefore, international legal institutions should support, and even mandate intra-state autonomy regimes (Buchanan 2004: 7). Buchanan’s argument gives us cause to ponder and refl ect. Perhaps the seductions of a state of one’s own need to be unpackaged. Perhaps the virtues of demo cracy and justice and the need to redress injustice need to be giftwrapped and presented more attractively.   In conclusion, the right of secession has to be taken seriously both by its practitioners and its defenders, used sparingly, and justified rigorously. For that I suggest that the right can best be likened to the right of euthanasia. The right to life is inalienable, and no one has the right to take her own life. Yet when the health of persons is so impaired that they live a life below the threshold of what we consider distinctively human, when their future seems to be ridden with nothing but pain and suffering, some states allow the terminally ill to choose to put an end to their misery. But just because a case can be made out for the right to put an end to one’s life, it does not mean that we defend euthanasia per se, except in the very last instance. What is needed is the investment of more energy into fi nding a solution to the problem, more funds for medical research, and more energy into preventive medicine. Euthanasia might be a last option when everything fails, but easy resort to premeditated and intentional death is best avoided. Similarly, even though secession might become a necessary course of action if injustice is irrevocable, it is best that the invocation of this right is forestalled through the realisation of self-determination in another avatar.     Notes   1 Case summary, http://csc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1998rcs-2-217/1998res-2-217html accessed on 9 December 2008. 2 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world 18 May 2009, accessed on 16 June 2009. 3 Cited in Praveen Swami (2008), “Kashmir: The War for Hearts and Minds”, The Hindu, 4 June, lead article. 4 The Aaland Islands, a group of about 6,000 islands that lie between Sweden and Finland, had belonged to Sweden until 1,809, when these islands were ceded to Russia. Finland was incorporated into Russia in the same year. With the outbreak of the Russian revolution, Finland declared itself independent of Russia. The representatives of the Aaland Islands at the Versailles Peace Conference expressed a desire to be reunited with Sweden. The Government of Finland held that the Aaland Islands had been incorporated into the state of Finland in Russia. The League a ppointed a Committee of Jurists to examine whether the organisation was competent to consider this petition. A Commission of Rapporteurs was also appointed to assess the merits of Sweden’s petition asking for a referendum. The Aaland Islands, the members of the Commissions concluded, were undoubtedly part of Finland during the period of Russian rule. 5 Report submitted to the Council of the League of Nations by the Commission of Rapporteurs, League of Nations, Document B7.21/68/106, 16 April 1921 cited in Antonello Tancredi (2006). 6 Census of India 2001, data on religion, www.censusindia.net/religion accessed on 19 April 2007. 7 On the Pakistani side of J and K, Balti, Shina, Khowar, Burushashki, Wakhi, and Pahari speaking people are part of the state, and in the Northern Areas, Ismaili, Sunni, Shia, and Nur Bakshi sects live together. For a detailed discussion of the ethnic composition of the state see Behera (2006). 8 Most of the groups that carried out ethnic cleansing had come into the Valley from the outside, for example the Jaish-e-Muhammed and the Lashkar-e-Taiba. 9 The leadership of the National Conference was to sometimes resort to the regional idiom, and sometimes the religious idiom Zutshi (2003), has charted out the flip fl op between the religious and the regional idiom well. 10 Bazaz (1954: 553) in sum, the Ladhaki leaders sought federal status for the region, so that the relationship of Ladhakh to J and K would be on the same lines as that of J and K to India. 11 For instance, in May 1995, the government in New Delhi passed the Ladakh Autonomous Hill Council Act. The Act created autonomous councils in Leh and Kargil, along with an inter-district council to promote coordination and communal harmony. This partly met the aspirations of the Buddhists for a measure of autonomy from the valley. But Kashmiri Muslims condemned the initiative because they saw it as a move towards the territorial disintegration of the state. 12 For instance, under the 1919 Treaty of St Germain, Italy annexed the German speaking South Tyrol, an act that was a clear breach of the principle of self-determination. 13 Annex to GA Resolution 2625 (XXV), UN GAOR 25 Session, UN Doc A/8082. http://daccessdds.un.org/doc accessed on 23 November 2008, 124, italics added. 14 GA Resolution 50/6, 9 November 1995, http://daccessdds.un.org/doc accessed on 23 November 2008, p 3.   References   Auden, W H (1945): In War Time: The Collected Poetryof W H Auden (New York: Random House), p 3. Bazaz, Prem Nath (1954): The History of Struggle for  Freedom in Kashmir (New Delhi: Kashmir P ublishing House). Behera, Navnita Chaddha (2006): Demystifying K ashmir (Washington DC: Brookings Institution Press), pp 128-30. Bose, Sarmila (2005): “Anatomy of Violence: Analysis of the Civil War in East Pakistan in 1971”, Economic & Political Weekly, Vol XL, No 41, 8 October, pp 4463-72. Buchanan, Allen (1997): “Theories of Secession”, Philosophy and Public Affairs, Vol 26, No 1, pp 31-61. – (2004): Justice, Legitimacy, and Self Determination: Moral Foundations for Inter national Law (Oxford: Oxford University Press). Evans, Alexander (2002): “A Departure from History: Kashmiri Pandits-1990-2001”, Contemporary South Asia, Vol 11, No 1, pp 19-37. Hobbes, Thomas (1651, 1988): The Leviathan (Amherst, New York: Prometheus Books), Chapter XXIX. Housman, A E (1940): The Collected Poems of A E Housman (New York: Henry Holt and Co), p 155. Lynch, Allen C (1999): “Woodrow Wilson and the Principle of National Self-Determination; as Applied to Habsburg Europe” in Henry Huttenbach and Francesco Privitera (ed.), Self Determination: From Versailles to Dayton, Its Historical Legacy, A Series of Balkan and East European Studies, University of Bologna, Longo Editore Ravenna, pp 15-30. Moore, Margaret (2001): The Ethics of Nationalism (Oxford: Oxford University Press), p 208. Philpott, Daniel (1995): “In Defense of Self Determination”, Ethics, Vol 105, No 2, January, pp 352-85. Tancredi, Antonello (2006): “A Normative ‘Due Process’ in the Creation of States Through Secession” in M G Kohen (ed.), Secession: International Law Perspectives (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press), pp 171-207. Zutshi, Chitralekha (2003): Languages of Belonging: Islam, Regional Identity and the Making of Kashmir (New Delhi: Permanent Black). From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 20:38:24 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:38:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (Part II) When Is Secession Justified? The Context of Kashmir In-Reply-To: <542703.27283.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <542703.27283.qm@web120219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Finally, let me ask one question of our right-thinking friends who defend secession. Is the alternative to the depredations of the nation state the setting up of another nation state, which will inevitably be embedded in the same problems as our original model?" quote from above article: so Cant understand this question. The British rulers to Indian Freedom Fighters the same question. true, the gora was replaced by borwn sahib, and it most likely to happen in any future nation state, but the how not the demand of a freedom of territory is saner there are many examples, within Indian state even, Laloo Pd Yadav said the Jharakhand will happen on the his dead body. Mulayam Singh Yadav suppressed the demand of Uttaranchal ruthlessly,Right now Telangana movement is suffering from such mean politics. Kashmir is already an International issue, and so how to see return of normalcy via conventional process of voting. That is the question, which the writer of the article needs to answer, love is On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > > a well argued essay that (in the context of kashmir) differentiates between "self determination" and "secession",  explores the justifications for "secession", the associated "rights" and the "conflicting rights" > > ............ aalok aima > > http://epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/15369.pdf > > (Part II) When Is Secession Justified? The Context of Kashmir > > Neera Chandhoke > Economic & Political Weekly  november 13, 2010 vol xlv no 46 > > (continued from Part I) > > > The Case in Kashmir > We can conclude that the people of the state have been subjected to institutionalised injustice. The special status allotted to the state by the Constitution, and by subsequent political contracts, has been wilfully subverted, and the core moral rights of the people of the Valley have been seriously violated by security forces after the outbreak of militancy in J and K. Yet can we also subscribe to the view that this injustice, although serious, is irrevocable? Injustice cannot be seen as irrevocable if people have the right to access the judiciary, and if civil society organisations possess the capacity to press for the repudiation of injustice. Since the latter years of the decade of the 1990s, processes of electoral democracy have been re-established in the state, and regional parties have come to power. The political space has also been opened up with a new political party emerging onto the scene in 2002. Both the regional parties are committed to >  negotiate for the reinstatement of the special status of J and K. Some civil liberty groups in India have powerfully highlighted the deliberate violations of civil rights of the people in the Valley by the security forces and draconian laws, and demanded the restoration of justice. And in the Valley a number of civil society organisations have made human rights issues, encounter deaths, rapes, and disappearances, their major concern. > > Admittedly, the re-establishment of full democracy (lifting of all coercive laws) and the reinstatement of the special status of the state is a process that is precarious, and, therefore, in constant danger of being subverted. Nevertheless the onus for sorting out the Kashmir issue is, I suggest, on India’s chaotic but occasionally inspired, energetic, and resourceful civil society. But too many civil society agents have been infl uenced by offi cial dismissal of the struggle in the Valley as terrorism, and as the handiwork of neighbouring countries, and far too many agents have been prejudiced against the militants by reasons of a corrosive nationalism, and a biased media. In the process they have forgotten what the mandate of a democratic civil society is. If there is one thing that democratic civil societies worth their name cannot afford, it is indifference to institutionalised injustice. If our democratic civil society is prepared to mount an >  onslaught on the Indian state for sins of omission and commission, and if the state is prepared to acknowledge the extent of historical injustice visited on the heads of the Kashmiri people, and make amends, the right of secession in Kashmir is a weak one. > > A right can be typed as a weak right when substantial moral considerations mediate the realisation of the right. The process of justifying a right implies that this right has to be balanced against relevant moral considerations, which have a bearing upon the right. Some of the moral considerations that have an immediate bearing upon the right of secession in Kashmir are (a) injustice might not be irrevocable even if the Indian state is imperfectly just and inadequately democratic, (b) the infl iction of major harm, (c) the illiberal nature of the group that demands a state of its own, and (d) the presence of third party agents who coming in from neighbouring countries have hijacked protests against the way-laying of democracy, and bent them towards jehad. Above all, and this is the fi fth moral consideration, what about the rights of people in the state of J and K who do not want to secede? > > According to the 2001 Census in J and K, Muslims form 66.97% of the population, Hindus 29.63%, the Sikhs 2.04%, and Buddhists 1.2%.6 The Muslims constitute a majority in the state but the community is divided by language and sect. Sunni Muslims live mainly in the Kashmir Valley and in two districts in Jammu, in Poonch Muslims speak Punjabi, and Kargil is peopled by Shias. Jammu and the foothill are dominated by Hindus, and Leh by Buddhists. For all these groups as well as for numerous smaller groups such as Gujjars, Bakkarwals, Kashmiri Pandits, Dogras, and Buddhists the state of J and K is homeland.7 > > The demand for secession has erupted mainly in the Valley of Kashmir, and in the two Muslim-dominated districts of Jammu. But though the Muslim community forms an overwhelming m ajority of the population in Kashmir, for the Kashmiri Hindus and Sikhs the Valley is home as well. In the wake of the 1990 popular uprising in the Valley, 95% of the Valley’s 1,50,000 to 1,60,000 Hindus were forced to leave their homes and their work places, because they were threatened by poster campaigns, the use of Islamic slogans during processions, and newspaper declarations that J and K was poised to be an Islamic state.8 Notably, Sikhs and moderate Muslims have also been forced to leave the Valley that has been their home for centuries (Evans 2002: 19-37). > > More significantly, the demand for secession by militant Muslim groups in the Valley has propelled the politicisation of other identity groups. The Buddhist community in Ladakh had begun to assert a distinct identity as far back as the 1930s, when the Muslim-dominated National Conference had mobilised to c hallenge the discriminatory policies of the Hindu ruler.9 The Buddhists held that they preferred to be governed directly by the Government of India, or be amalgamated with Hindu majority regions in Jammu, or join East Punjab, or be reunited with Tibet. With the outbreak of militancy in the state in 1990, the Buddhist population in Ladakh began to agitate for union territory status under the direct control of the Government of India.10 > > In Jammu, the predominantly Hindu community had, from the time of accession, been uncomfortable with regional autonomy granted to J and K, given that the state is dominated by the Muslim community. Developments after 1947 fuelled suspicions that the Government of India preferred to deal with the Muslim leadership in the Valley, and that it tended to neglect the interests of other religious groups. These fears led to the politicisation of the Hindu community under the leadership of the Hindu right, which demands integration of J and K into the Indian Union, and abolition of the special status of J and K. > > Whether the politicisation of identities in Jammu and in Ladakh on religious lines is politically desirable is a relevant question, but not the issue at hand for this argument. Without defending right wing Hindu fundamentalism, we can acknowledge that the crucial issue is that of competing identities. Over the years the regional divide has been exacerbated, generating both plural and incommensurate voices on the future of the state, and the intensifi cation of intra-state tensions.11 Ironically, whereas the Valley-based leadership calls for either independence or restoration of regional autonomy, it seems to oppose the grant of subregional autonomy to other groups. > > Matters have become even more complicated because the former residents of the Kashmir Valley, the exiled Hindu Kashmiri community have begun to agitate for a separate homeland comprising the region to the east of the Valley and the north of river Jhelum (The Hindu 2007: 5). The homeland should have, it is claimed, the status of a Union Territory governed by the central government. The other group that has demanded autonomy from Kashmir is the Gujjar community that constitutes 9% of the state’s population. The Gujjars who form the third-largest community in J and K are Muslim nomads. They were granted in 1991 the status of a scheduled tribe (ST). This has led to the politicisation of the Pahari people who speak a distinct language, and who consider themselves as possessing a separate identity. The group has begun to demand separation from the Valley, as well as a distinct political status. The residents of the Chenab Valley have also put forth a claim >  for an Autonomous Hill Council (Behera 2006: 128-30). In sum, not only is there no consensus on the issue of secession in the state, different groups of residents conceptualise the future of the state in incommensurable ways. > > Let us now reflect on the two factors that have signifi cant bearing on the right of secession. One, even if the separatist leadership commits to minority rights in the new state, groups other than the Muslim majority in the Valley simply do not subscribe to the project of secession. Two, all these groups have begun to lay claim to (a) a distinct administrative status within the region, and (b) closer integration of the state into the country. In other words, not only do these groups desire a dilution of the special status granted to the state, they also desire a looser form of subfederalism within the state, with some units being administered directly by the central government. We can, of course, hold that only the residents of the Valley of Kashmir should be allowed the right to secede. Since their civil liberties have been violated, we can argue, they have been subjected to double injustice. But this course of action carries adverse implications for >  the moderate Muslims who do not share aspirations for a separate state, as well as for Sikhs and Hindus for whom the valley is home. Most of them have been practically forced out of the Valley. However given their historic links with Kashmir, should they not be consulted on the future of the Valley? Do the rights of the secessionists outweigh the rights of minorities completely? > > The Problem of Conflicting Rights > What we see here is the making of a serious moral dilemma born out of the confl ict between P’s right of secession, and the rights of other groups in the territory not to secede. Conflict between rights is, of course, not peculiar to the right of secession alone; it is endemic to rights. Since rights are asserted and claimed in a context that is indisputably social, and, therefore, one that is marked by both a scarcity of resources and imperfect altruism, the rights of P can affect the rights of Q. How do we then trade off the P’s right with Q’s right? > > Two courses of action can be adopted to resolve the issue. It can be argued that P’s R to G is more signifi cant than Q’s R to Gi. But this would mean that P’s rights override Q’s rights. A tradeoff between rights is simply not a desirable option because it infringes the basic assumption of rights; that is inviolability. Much more desirable is a second option; that the scale of the good P and Q lay claim to is reduced for both. The advantage is that the rights of both agents are realised, albeit to a lesser degree than initially envisaged. What is signifi cant is that the trade-off in this case is not between two sets of rights. The trade-off is between the full realisation of the good the right is a right to (for one agent), and a realisation of a reduced scale of the good (for both). If we follow the second course of action, the one alternative to the right of secession, which if realised will harm other agents, is to fulfi l the substance of >  the right within the existing state, in the form of the institutionalisation of self-determination through r egional autonomy, representation, and protection of minority rights. But then what exactly does self-determination mean? > > A Brief Biography of Self-Determination > It is well known that after the end of the fi rst world war, US President Woodrow Wilson placed the principle of national selfdetermination squarely onto the global agenda. The principle however proved to be contentious. For by the beginning of the 20th century, the concept of the nation had come to be pluralised, between what came to be known later as civic and as organic nations. Wilson, however, simply did not seem to be aware of either these complexities in the concept of the nation, or of the knots in the fi lament that tied nations to self-determination, or properly states of their own. For him, the concept of a selfdetermining people, as Lynch has noted, was rooted in the Anglo- American tradition of civic nationalism, or the right of communities to democratic self-government. The idea that the principle could also emanate from traditions of collective or ethnic nationalism (Lynch 1999) in which nations are held to be collective agents that >  possess a distinct identity from their individual members, was quite alien to Wilson. It is not surprising that the moment he began to confront diffi culties in implementing the idea of national self-determination in eastern and central Europe, Wilson began to voice reservations about the concept, “in point of logic, of pure logic, this principle which was good in itself would lead to the complete independence of various small nationalities now forming part of various Empires. Pushed to its extreme, the principle would mean the disruption of existing governments, to an undefi nable extent” (Lynch 1999: 19). Ultimately, the ambiguous and the troubled principle of national self-determination was not incorporated into the Covenant of the League of Nations even though it was employed to split up numerous defeated territories in eastern Europe, Balkans and the west Asia to create new states. Notably who got their state and who did not was contingent on >  the political calculations of the great powers and not on the will of the nation concerned.12 > > The irony is that even though the League rejected the concept of national self-determination, the principle came to strongly shape the popular aspirations of colonised people. It was foregrounded as the main rallying cry of nationalist movements against colonialism. Leaderships of freedom struggles across the colonised world set out to construct nations out of a plurality of different and diverse social groups. By the time the moment of decolonisation came around, however, national self-determination had been practically banished from the domain of international law. Though the right of colonised people to independence via the principle of self-determination was recognised as the cornerstone of the new order, now the entity that possessed this right was “the people” who inhabited a territory under colonial rule. The substitution of the concept of the “people” for that of the “ nation” as the bearer of the right of self-determination carried >  at least three power ful messages. One, territorial borders were s acrosanct via the principle of Uti Possideti Juris; two, the UN clearly privileged the liberal democratic notion of people as the locus of popular sovereignty over ethnic nations and ethno- nationalism, and, three, national groups within the territory did not have the right to their own state. The only successful case of secession in the period after 1945 has been that of Bangladesh. But Bangladesh was not placed in the category of national self-determination outside the colonial context. Recognised by the UN some three years after the country had seceded from Pakistan, the independence of Bangladesh was seen as a fait accompli. A fter Bangladesh, the UN has recognised four countries that a cquired independent status as a result of unilateral secession and armed confl icts: Slovenia in 1991, Croatia in 1991, Eritrea in 1993, and East Timor in 2002. But the emergence of the first three >  states was attributed to causes other than secession (dissolution of a state or of a federation). East Timor was placed in the c ategory of non-self-governing territory which had the right to self-determination. > > The irony is, however, that secessionist movements continue to invoke the principle of national self-determination to justify s ecession, and post-colonial states continue to legitimise themselves by creating nations out of a welter of heterogeneous populations. In country after country language policies, or religion, or ethnicity, have been employed as a tool to forge nations out of plural populations. This has proved as we have seen in the case of Pakistan and Sri Lanka, politically suicidal. The problem is that no agent apart from the state concerned has the authority to i ntervene in gross forms of injustice regularly meted out to m inorities by states. The UN is proscribed from interfering in the domestic affairs of its member states via Article 2 (7) of the Charter. Significantly, the UN has begun to take cognisance of the, often, endangered rights of minorities within nation states. For instance, in General Assembly Resolution 2625 (1970), the >  ritual invocation of the principle of territorial integrity carried an important addendum: “Nothing in the foregoing paragraphs shall be construed as authorising or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States conducting themselves in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples…and thus possessed of a government representing the whole people belonging to the territory without distinction as to race, creed, or colour” (italics added).13 The UN General Assembly’s “Declaration in Commemoration of the Fiftieth Anniversary of the United Nations” of 9 November 1995 echoed this warning.14 The implication of these declarations is plain; the international community will not tolerate any violation of the principle of territorial integrity, as long as states conduct themselves in compliance with the >  principle of equal rights and self-determination, and as long as the government represents the entire people. > > If we follow the logic of this interpretation of self-determination, the realisation of the principle does not have to involve the violent renegotiation of territorial boundaries, except when the existing state denies self-determination to the people. Two implications follow this renegotiation. One, there is no essential link between self-determination and the right of secession; only a contingent one. That is, if states do not institutionalise appropriate conditions for the realisation of self-determination, then groups might have a right to secede. Two, if the argument that self-determination is best realised through institutions such as regional autonomy is acceptable, then the restoration of constitutionally sanctioned autonomy to J and K should not be seen as sui generis, or as exceptional to the state but as part of a larger plan of devolving power to territorially settled minority groups. Arguably self-determination is not only a means of staving >  off secession, it is good in its own right because it is part of a larger political pact that seeks to r ealise democracy through decentralisation of power and devolution of resources. > > Therefore, the restoration of the special status granted to J and K by the Constitution of India and by a number of political agreements will not be only about redressing historical wrongs, the institutionalisation of self-determination might also serve to deliver justice in the context of the clashes of rights mentioned above. Notably, if the scale of the good P has asserted a right to is pruned from secession to self-determination, Q will also have to scale down the good it asserts a right to, say from non-secession to self-determination within the country. The advantage of such a mode of reconciling confl icting claims is that (a) the rights of both agents are realised, albeit to a lesser degree than initially envisaged, (b) it is recognised that P has been subjected to historical injustice, and (c) this injustice has to be reversed. This measure is but the start of a fuller process of restoring and realising justice in the beleaguered state of J and >  K. Fortune might be persuaded to pedal back to the region just as furiously as it pedalled away. > > Conclusions > Finally, let me ask one question of our right-thinking friends who defend secession. Is the alternative to the depredations of the n ation state the setting up of another nation state, which will inevitably be embedded in the same problems as our original model? States across the world suffer from pretty much the same malaise; an inherent tendency to accumulate and abuse power. State power can be controlled only through constitutions, rule of law, institutionalised rights, an independent judiciary, and above all a vibrant civil society, and systems of checks and balances. Secession is hardly a solution to the problem that besets groups; it might even be a part of the problem. Moreover, if often coercive efforts to build nations out of plural populations are the source of secessionist movements, the setting up of a state of one’s own, which cannot be but a clone of parent nation state, is hardly a s olution. The problem of the nation state is not >  resolved in this way; it is merely deferred. If the nation state has proved one of history’s most grievous mistakes, then many nation states can only reproduce this mistake. Instead of focusing on secession per se, we perhaps need to think out alternatives to the nation state; how the aspirations of minorities can be best realised within the state, and how sovereignty can be diluted through p olitical arrangements within the state. > > Buchanan has put this point across well. He argues that secession challenges the ability of the political philosopher to reimagine the sort of political institutions and practices that govern individual and collective lives. The impulse to secede from an existing state, he alleges, betrays a fundamental lack of political imagination, because paradoxically, secession is one of the most conservative of political acts. The secessionist tends to assume that his problems are due to the state in which he fi nds himself, and that the solution is to get his own state. The anti-secessionist tends to be equally unimaginative, seeing in every demand for autonomy a threat to the existence of the state. The imaginations of both are cramped by the narrow horizons of the statist paradigm. What the usual rhetoric of both parties overlooks is that sovereignty can be unbundled in many ways, and that the only choice is not to stay in the state, or get away. Once we take >  seriously the indefi nitely large range of possible regimes of political differentiation within state borders, the rich menu of intra-state autonomy arrangements, we liberate ourselves from the confining assumptions of self-determination. There are various inter- and intra-state autonomy regimes that can cope with, or serve to avoid secessionist confl icts. Therefore, international legal institutions should support, and even mandate intra-state autonomy regimes (Buchanan 2004: 7). Buchanan’s argument gives us cause to ponder and refl ect. Perhaps the seductions of a state of one’s own need to be unpackaged. Perhaps the virtues of demo cracy and justice and the need to redress injustice need to be giftwrapped and presented more attractively. > > In conclusion, the right of secession has to be taken seriously both by its practitioners and its defenders, used sparingly, and justified rigorously. For that I suggest that the right can best be likened to the right of euthanasia. The right to life is inalienable, and no one has the right to take her own life. Yet when the health of persons is so impaired that they live a life below the threshold of what we consider distinctively human, when their future seems to be ridden with nothing but pain and suffering, some states allow the terminally ill to choose to put an end to their misery. But just because a case can be made out for the right to put an end to one’s life, it does not mean that we defend euthanasia per se, except in the very last instance. What is needed is the investment of more energy into fi nding a solution to the problem, more funds for medical research, and more energy into preventive medicine. Euthanasia might be a last option when >  everything fails, but easy resort to premeditated and intentional death is best avoided. Similarly, even though secession might become a necessary course of action if injustice is irrevocable, it is best that the invocation of this right is forestalled through the realisation of self-determination in another avatar. > > > > Notes > > 1 Case summary, http://csc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1998rcs-2-217/1998res-2-217html accessed on 9 December 2008. > 2 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world 18 May 2009, accessed on 16 June 2009. > 3 Cited in Praveen Swami (2008), “Kashmir: The War for Hearts and Minds”, The Hindu, 4 June, lead article. > 4 The Aaland Islands, a group of about 6,000 islands that lie between Sweden and Finland, had belonged to Sweden until 1,809, when these islands were ceded to Russia. Finland was incorporated into Russia in the same year. With the outbreak of the Russian revolution, Finland declared itself independent of Russia. The representatives of the Aaland Islands at the Versailles Peace Conference expressed a desire to be reunited with Sweden. The Government of Finland held that the Aaland Islands had been incorporated into the state of Finland in Russia. The League a ppointed a Committee of Jurists to examine whether the organisation was competent to consider this petition. A Commission of Rapporteurs was also appointed to assess the merits of Sweden’s petition asking for a referendum. The Aaland Islands, the members of the Commissions concluded, were undoubtedly part of Finland during the period of Russian rule. > 5 Report submitted to the Council of the League of Nations by the Commission of Rapporteurs, League of Nations, Document B7.21/68/106, 16 April 1921 cited in Antonello Tancredi (2006). > 6 Census of India 2001, data on religion, www.censusindia.net/religion accessed on 19 April 2007. > 7 On the Pakistani side of J and K, Balti, Shina, Khowar, Burushashki, Wakhi, and Pahari speaking people are part of the state, and in the Northern Areas, Ismaili, Sunni, Shia, and Nur Bakshi sects live together. For a detailed discussion of the ethnic composition of the state see Behera (2006). > 8 Most of the groups that carried out ethnic cleansing had come into the Valley from the outside, for example the Jaish-e-Muhammed and the Lashkar-e-Taiba. > 9 The leadership of the National Conference was to sometimes resort to the regional idiom, and sometimes the religious idiom Zutshi (2003), has charted out the flip fl op between the religious and the regional idiom well. > 10 Bazaz (1954: 553) in sum, the Ladhaki leaders sought federal status for the region, so that the relationship of Ladhakh to J and K would be on the same lines as that of J and K to India. > 11 For instance, in May 1995, the government in New Delhi passed the Ladakh Autonomous Hill Council Act. The Act created autonomous councils in Leh and Kargil, along with an inter-district council to promote coordination and communal harmony. This partly met the aspirations of the Buddhists for a measure of autonomy from the valley. But Kashmiri Muslims condemned the initiative because they saw it as a move towards the territorial disintegration of the state. > 12 For instance, under the 1919 Treaty of St Germain, Italy annexed the German speaking South Tyrol, an act that was a clear breach of the principle of self-determination. > 13 Annex to GA Resolution 2625 (XXV), UN GAOR 25 Session, UN Doc A/8082. http://daccessdds.un.org/doc accessed on 23 November 2008, 124, italics added. > 14 GA Resolution 50/6, 9 November 1995, http://daccessdds.un.org/doc accessed on 23 November 2008, p 3. > > References > > Auden, W H (1945): In War Time: The Collected Poetryof W H Auden (New York: Random House), p 3. > Bazaz, Prem Nath (1954): The History of Struggle for  Freedom in Kashmir (New Delhi: Kashmir P ublishing House). > Behera, Navnita Chaddha (2006): Demystifying K ashmir (Washington DC: Brookings Institution Press), pp 128-30. > Bose, Sarmila (2005): “Anatomy of Violence: Analysis of the Civil War in East Pakistan in 1971”, Economic & Political Weekly, Vol XL, No 41, 8 October, pp 4463-72. > Buchanan, Allen (1997): “Theories of Secession”, Philosophy and Public Affairs, Vol 26, No 1, pp 31-61. > – (2004): Justice, Legitimacy, and Self Determination: Moral Foundations for Inter national Law (Oxford: Oxford University Press). > Evans, Alexander (2002): “A Departure from History: Kashmiri Pandits-1990-2001”, Contemporary South Asia, Vol 11, No 1, pp 19-37. > Hobbes, Thomas (1651, 1988): The Leviathan (Amherst, New York: Prometheus Books), Chapter XXIX. > Housman, A E (1940): The Collected Poems of A E Housman (New York: Henry Holt and Co), p 155. > Lynch, Allen C (1999): “Woodrow Wilson and the Principle of National Self-Determination; as Applied to > Habsburg Europe” in Henry Huttenbach and Francesco Privitera (ed.), Self Determination: From Versailles > to Dayton, Its Historical Legacy, A Series of Balkan and East European Studies, University of Bologna, Longo Editore Ravenna, pp 15-30. > Moore, Margaret (2001): The Ethics of Nationalism (Oxford: Oxford University Press), p 208. > Philpott, Daniel (1995): “In Defense of Self Determination”, Ethics, Vol 105, No 2, January, pp 352-85. > Tancredi, Antonello (2006): “A Normative ‘Due Process’ in the Creation of States Through Secession” in M G Kohen (ed.), Secession: International Law Perspectives (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press), pp 171-207. > Zutshi, Chitralekha (2003): Languages of Belonging: Islam, Regional Identity and the Making of Kashmir (New Delhi: Permanent Black). > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 20 21:12:27 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 07:42:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Threat received from Kamal Hak of Panun Kashmir In-Reply-To: <78270366-1290258308-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-285173539-@b11.c1.bise7.blackberry> Message-ID: <758110.56643.qm@web120212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> (given below is my response to the threats received from Kamal Hak of Panun Kashmir)   Kamal Ji   I am putting in the public domain the very obvious threatening tone in your mail to me. You will be held culpable for any harm done to me in furtherance of your threats.   You seem to have only confirmed the opinion held by some that Panun Kashmir, while decrying the fascism of others is itself also a fascist organisation.   I did not know that as a Kashmiri Pandit and as an Indian I needed the concurrence of Panun Kashmir in my choice of forums where I could articulate my views and the manner in which I articulated them.   I did not know that I was slave to  being on tenterhooks about whether or not Panun Kashmir will pronounce its approval of my choices with the pronouncement of "it is perfectly alright with us".   In being the spokesperson who threatens on behalf of his cadres that "Please don't force them to transcend the self maintained levels of decency" you have shown yourself to be no different from those others "who only live by their faith" and who similarly issue threats to those who disagree with their ideology.   Please understand this Kamal Ji, I am an Indian Nationalist who will speak up for protecting the interests of India. While on one front that entails disagreeing with and questioning those who are the "separatists" that take umbrage under one religion, on another front it means disagreeing with and questioning organisations like Panun Kashmir who are equally guilty of propagations that (I see as) harming the integrity of India by promoting religious and territorial divides in the name of another religion.   You would have served your cause better if you had given a credible response to my statement that :   "Groups like Panun Kashmir who do not have the support of even the rabid Hindutvavaadis from the RSS and BJP, by demanding a carving out of Kashmir of the Panun Kashmir 'Indian Territory' are doing little else than confirming on behalf of the 'separatists' that Kashmir is no longer "Indian Territory"   Perhaps it is your inability to offer a rational argument to counter my statement that has forced you to resort to threats.   I repeat that you will be held culpable for any harm done to me in furtherance of your threats.   .............. aalok aima       --- On Sat, 11/20/10, kamalhak at gmail.com wrote: From: kamalhak at gmail.com Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ‘Take Kashmiri society into confidence over return of pandits' - KN Pandita (JKNM) To: "Aalok Aima" Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 5:07 PM Aalok ji, So long as you articulate your myopic vision and naïve ideas about KP response to pan islamic uprising in Kashmir on KP forums, it is perfectly alright with us. Being thousands of miles away from the ground realities and then sitting on judgment over community affairs on non KP forums is a provocation to thousands of activists who only live by their faith in Homeland. Please don't force them to transcend the self maintained levels of decency. Orzu. Kamal Hak Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel -----Original Message----- From: Aalok Aima Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 04:33:14 To: reader-list list Subject: [Reader-list] ‘Take Kashmiri society into confi dence over return of pandits' - KN Pandita (JKNM) It is good to see that, from amongst the KPs, some of the saner voices (who I have no doubt form the overwhelming majority) are more frequently articulating their opinions and attitudes in public space.   This public and media perception has to be strongly countered by KPs that narrow visioned groups like Panun Kashmir are the sole representative voices from amongst the KPs.   Groups like Panun Kashmir who do not have the support of even the rabid Hindutvavaadis from the RSS and BJP, by demanding a carving out of Kashmir of the Panun Kashmir 'Indian Territory' are doing little else than confirming on behalf of the 'separatists' that Kashmir is no longer "Indian Territory"    " "The Government should take several confidence building measures before any rehabilitation of 70,000 displaced Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley, the most important measure being taking into confidence civil society of Kashmir," Chairman of JKNM K N Pandita said here on Friday. " "The organisation demanded constitution of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to find the exact reasons of displacement, fix responsibility, bridge the gulf between the two communities of the Valley and also lay down the roadmap for return of all displaced persons, it said."   ......... aalok aima   http://www.earlytimes.in/newsdet.aspx?q=63311     ‘Take Kashmiri society into confidence over return of pandits'   11/19/2010 EARLY TIMES REPORT   JAMMU, Nov 19: The Jammu and Kashmir government should initiate confidence building measures including taking the civilian society into confidence before rehabilitating displaced Kashmiri Hindus in the Valley, Jammu and Kashmir Nationalist Movement (JKNM) has said. "The Government should take several confidence building measures before any rehabilitation of 70,000 displaced Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley, the most important measure being taking into confidence civil society of Kashmir," Chairman of JKNM K N Pandita said here on Friday. There is a natural instinct in people of the Kashmir Valley to return to their land with honour and dignity, he said while releasing a 20-page booklet released by the group on confidence building measures that the state government should take. According to the booklet, the module for rehabilitation of the community in the Valley must ensure its participation in decision making mechanisms while safeguarding the peoples' political, economic, religious and cultural interests. The onus of creating a conducive environment for return of the displaced pandits lies essentially with Kashmir's civil society and all initiatives in this direction need to be facilitated by the state government, it said. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah is being requested to take initiatives to address the concerns of the displaced community regarding its rehabilitation in the Valley and also to facilitate deliberations between the Prime Minister and representatives of the community, JKNM said in its booklet. The organisation demanded constitution of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to find the exact reasons of displacement, fix responsibility, bridge the gulf between the two communities of the Valley and also lay down the roadmap for return of all displaced persons, it said. The booklet also said that there should be enrolment of migrant voters and census of the displaced community members at the earliest for complete update of records.       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From samvitr at gmail.com Sun Nov 21 08:44:21 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:44:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Threat received from Kamal Hak of Panun Kashmir In-Reply-To: <758110.56643.qm@web120212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <78270366-1290258308-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-285173539-@b11.c1.bise7.blackberry> <758110.56643.qm@web120212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Threat!!! Where is the threat. Please do not use this medium to settle personal scores. This seems to be a benign letter written from one community member to another. This forum is for issues of national/international interest. It is not anyone's personal whining zone. On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > (given below is my response to the threats received from Kamal Hak of Panun Kashmir) > > Kamal Ji > > I am putting in the public domain the very obvious threatening tone in your mail to me. You will be held culpable for any harm done to me in furtherance of your threats. > > You seem to have only confirmed the opinion held by some that Panun Kashmir, while decrying the fascism of others is itself also a fascist organisation. > > I did not know that as a Kashmiri Pandit and as an Indian I needed the concurrence of Panun Kashmir in my choice of forums where I could articulate my views and the manner in which I articulated them. > > I did not know that I was slave to  being on tenterhooks about whether or not Panun Kashmir will pronounce its approval of my choices with the pronouncement of "it is perfectly alright with us". > > In being the spokesperson who threatens on behalf of his cadres that "Please don't force them to transcend the self maintained levels of decency" you have shown yourself to be no different from those others "who only live by their faith" and who similarly issue threats to those who disagree with their ideology. > > Please understand this Kamal Ji, I am an Indian Nationalist who will speak up for protecting the interests of India. While on one front that entails disagreeing with and questioning those who are the "separatists" that take umbrage under one religion, on another front it means disagreeing with and questioning organisations like Panun Kashmir who are equally guilty of propagations that (I see as) harming the integrity of India by promoting religious and territorial divides in the name of another religion. > > You would have served your cause better if you had given a credible response to my statement that : > > "Groups like Panun Kashmir who do not have the support of even the rabid Hindutvavaadis from the RSS and BJP, by demanding a carving out of Kashmir of the Panun Kashmir 'Indian Territory' are doing little else than confirming on behalf of the 'separatists' that Kashmir is no longer "Indian Territory" > > Perhaps it is your inability to offer a rational argument to counter my statement that has forced you to resort to threats. > > I repeat that you will be held culpable for any harm done to me in furtherance of your threats. > > .............. aalok aima > > > --- On Sat, 11/20/10, kamalhak at gmail.com wrote: > > > From: kamalhak at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ‘Take Kashmiri society into confidence over return of pandits' - KN Pandita (JKNM) > To: "Aalok Aima" > Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 5:07 PM > > > Aalok ji, > So long as you articulate your myopic vision and naïve ideas about KP response to pan islamic uprising in Kashmir on KP forums, it is perfectly alright with us. Being thousands of miles away from the ground realities and then sitting on judgment over community affairs on non KP forums is a provocation to thousands of activists who only live by their faith in Homeland. Please don't force them to transcend the self maintained levels of decency. > > Orzu. > > Kamal Hak > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aalok Aima > Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 04:33:14 > To: reader-list list > Subject: [Reader-list] ‘Take Kashmiri society into confi > dence over return of pandits' - KN Pandita (JKNM) > > It is good to see that, from amongst the KPs, some of the saner voices (who I have no doubt form the overwhelming majority) are more frequently articulating their opinions and attitudes in public space. > > This public and media perception has to be strongly countered by KPs that narrow visioned groups like Panun Kashmir are the sole representative voices from amongst the KPs. > > Groups like Panun Kashmir who do not have the support of even the rabid Hindutvavaadis from the RSS and BJP, by demanding a carving out of Kashmir of the Panun Kashmir 'Indian Territory' are doing little else than confirming on behalf of the 'separatists' that Kashmir is no longer "Indian Territory" > > " "The Government should take several confidence building measures before any rehabilitation of 70,000 displaced Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley, the most important measure being taking into confidence civil society of Kashmir," Chairman of JKNM K N Pandita said here on Friday. " > > "The organisation demanded constitution of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to find the exact reasons of displacement, fix responsibility, bridge the gulf between the two communities of the Valley and also lay down the roadmap for return of all displaced persons, it said." > > ......... aalok aima > > http://www.earlytimes.in/newsdet.aspx?q=63311 > > > ‘Take Kashmiri society into confidence over return of pandits' > > 11/19/2010 > EARLY TIMES REPORT > > JAMMU, Nov 19: The Jammu and Kashmir government should initiate confidence building measures including taking the civilian society into confidence before rehabilitating displaced Kashmiri Hindus in the Valley, Jammu and Kashmir Nationalist Movement (JKNM) has said. > > "The Government should take several confidence building measures before any rehabilitation of 70,000 displaced Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley, the most important measure being taking into confidence civil society of Kashmir," Chairman of JKNM K N Pandita said here on Friday. > > There is a natural instinct in people of the Kashmir Valley to return to their land with honour and dignity, he said while releasing a 20-page booklet released by the group on confidence building measures that the state government should take. > > According to the booklet, the module for rehabilitation of the community in the Valley must ensure its participation in decision making mechanisms while safeguarding the peoples' political, economic, religious and cultural interests. > > The onus of creating a conducive environment for return of the displaced pandits lies essentially with Kashmir's civil society and all initiatives in this direction need to be facilitated by the state government, it said. > > Chief Minister Omar Abdullah is being requested to take initiatives to address the concerns of the displaced community regarding its rehabilitation in the Valley and also to facilitate deliberations between the Prime Minister and representatives of the community, JKNM said in its booklet. > > The organisation demanded constitution of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to find the exact reasons of displacement, fix responsibility, bridge the gulf between the two communities of the Valley and also lay down the roadmap for return of all displaced persons, it said. > > The booklet also said that there should be enrolment of migrant voters and census of the displaced community members at the earliest for complete update of records. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Sun Nov 21 11:43:17 2010 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:43:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [feministsindia] Fwd: Announcing Delhi Queer Pride 2010 - Sunday, 28th November 2010, 3 pm onwards [1 Attachment] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <175767.97944.qm@web94707.mail.in2.yahoo.com> see you there. kabi ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Delhi Queer Pride Committee Date: 20 November 2010 16:53 Subject: Announcing Delhi Queer Pride 2010 - Sunday, 28th November 2010, 3 pm onwards To: delhi-queer-pride at googlegroups.com Delhi Queer Pride 2010 >> We welcome all queer people, friends and supporters to join us for the 3rd >>Delhi Queer Pride on Sunday 28th November 2010. >> What the afternoon looks like:We assemble at Barakhamaba Road at 3 pm and start marching at 3.30 pm. We should reach Jantar Mantar at around 5.00 pm where we have organised a small stage for people to speak or sing or dance or shout slogans… whatever else you want to do, as long as its under 2 minutes! Everyone is welcome and best if you can give your name in advance by sending a mail to delhiqueerpride at gmail.com Thanks to the amazing support we have got from the dilli queers, Delhi Queer Pride this year too remains funded and organised entirely by the community. And just like in the previous years, we are using the funds raised to buy material that will be given away free of cost at the march - masks, small rainbow flags, whistles, candies, rainbow scarves and leaflets! Come by 3 pm on the day of the march and collect what you want. But mind it!: - Do not the litter the place with masks or parchis or water bottles. - There will be a box kept near the stage at Jantar Mantar where you can drop off extra leaflets, masks etc. - Carry a bottle of water with you. Join us in all your colorful splendor! Spread the word and bring along friends, lovers, family, pets! Zindabad! Delhi Queer Pride Committee delhiqueerpride at gmail.com http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000026080444&v=info Note: English leaflet pasted below and hindi one is attached. Delhi Queer Pride 2010 On 28 November 2010, Delhi will celebrate its Third Queer Pride Parade! A large number of queer people, along with the ‘straight but not narrow’ allies of the queer community, will come together to celebrate the dignity and rights of sexually marginalized people all across India and the world. But we will not just be celebrating. We will also protest against the discrimination faced by queers and make a statement of our hope for a world where all people live with freedom, dignity and respect. This year we also march with a feather in our caps. On 2 July 2009 the Delhi High Court made a judgment decriminalising consensual adult same-sex sexual activity in private. What is “Queer”? Originally, the word “queer” simply meant “odd” or “unusual”. In the past century, the word came to be used as a slur for anyone who isn’t gender normative or who deviates from society’s definition of sexually normal behaviour. Recently, however, people across the world have reclaimed the word “queer” to empower, celebrate and unite all those who may feel marginalized because of their diverse gender identities and sexualities. Queerness is about celebrating our diversity no matter what we call ourselves. Among many other things, queer people can be gay, kothi, lesbian, queen, dyke, transgender, transsexual, bisexual, hijra, butch, panthi, femme, fairy, MSM, FSF, genderqueer, androgynous, asexual, questioning, bicurious or even heterosexual queers! Queer Pride affirms our diverse expressions and calls attention to our everyday struggle for respect and dignity. But even as we affirm all these labels, queerness is also about recognizing and resisting the way fixed categories and preconceptions can hinder the human variety of love, desire, affection, and self-expression. But why are we marching? Queer people in India face violence and discrimination from many different quarters. Lesbians are subject to violence, forced into marriage and even driven to commit suicide by their families. Gay men are blackmailed by organized scandals that often involve the police. Hijras regularly bear the brunt of brutal violence meted out to them by the police and others in public and private. Trans people do not have the medical and psychological services that they may need. Queer people who have built lives together are not allowed the same civil rights of property, adoption, and insurance benefits, among others, that heterosexual families take for granted. These are but a few examples. The judgement to decriminalize Article 377 has been challenged in the Supreme Court and so the legal battle continues. Nonetheless the court’s recognition of our constitutional rights to life, liberty, dignity and respect is a victory that cannot be taken away from us. It is but one step in changing society, and we still have a long way to go. Keeping all this in mind, it is essential that – - The government extend anti-discrimination laws to ensure that people are not discriminated against on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identity in workplaces, schools, and other public as well as private spaces - The law forbid non-consensual surgical and psychiatric medical interventions to alter sex, gender or sexual orientation. - The government allow people able to record the gender category of their choice in the national Census of India, Voter ID and all other government documents - Legal action be taken against policemen and others who commit violence against queers. - The government replicate in other parts of the country efforts such as the Aravani Welfare Board, which the Tamil Nadu Government set up for the hijra community. - All persons be allowed to exercise their right to live their lives with dignity and freedom, regardless of their gender and sexuality identities. It is also important that we celebrate – - The Delhi High Court victory reading down Section 377 of the IPC - The creation of small but significant spaces for queer people to express who they are - All the family members, colleagues and friends who have embraced the queer people in their lives - Our support from politicians and other public figures - The untiring efforts of queer and queer-friendly activists, lawyers, journalists, artists across the country that have got us this far - The victories of individuals such as Shabnam, who became a politician in Madhya Pradesh as a hijra - The positive response from some quarters of the media, even as we hope for ever increasing support and recognition Join us at 3:00 pm on November 28th, 2010 Queers and their allies in Delhi will splash the colours of our lives on the streets of Delhi. We invite queers of every stripe, as well as all those who stand with us, to rejoice in the rainbow of diversity. The March will start at the corner of Barakhamba Road and Tolstoy Marg, continue along Tolstoy Marg and end at Jantar Mantar. For more information about Delhi Queer Pride ’10 contact delhiqueerpride at gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Delhi Queer Pride" group. To post to this group, send email to delhi-queer-pride at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to delhi-queer-pride+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/delhi-queer-pride?hl=en. __._,_.___Attachment(s) from deepti 1 of 1 File(s) delhi queer pride 2010 hindi.pdf Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feministsindia/ To change settings online go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feministsindia/join (Yahoo!ID required) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: feministsindia-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___ From rohitrellan at aol.in Sun Nov 21 17:12:26 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 06:42:26 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Winter Clothes Collection Drive In-Reply-To: <8CD5787D4556904-CE4-188C1@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD57879D8780C4-CE4-1889D@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> <8CD5787D4556904-CE4-188C1@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD57884C6261A4-CE4-18902@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> Dear friends ,       It is that time of the year again and we need your help. Here is your chance to to ensure that Delhi stays warm during the coming winters!      Take out those sweaters/shawls/sweat shirts/shoes that you have been planning to wear since Christmas ten years ago and never actually did so. Add winter protection for Khoj to your winter shopping list. Share your winter warmth and we guarantee you will be contributing a smile to someone's face!      We look forward to all contributions, whether a single sweater/blanket or clothes by the dozen. We only request that they all be in wearable condition.      Send this message to your family, friends and colleagues at work. Each sweater counts!      Please drop all contributions to Khoj's office:   Khoj Foundation   409 3rd Floor, above RAO Travels,   Munirka, New Delhi      You may contact Maddy or Neha in case of any questions:   Maddy: 09891728996   Neha: 09810521188      Looking forward to an overwhelming response!      -Khoj       From rohitrellan at aol.in Mon Nov 22 09:21:30 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:51:30 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] IPTA presents ' Kaifi Aur Main' saga of a poet : A fund raising initiative by Greenpeace India , 25 November 2010 , New Delhi In-Reply-To: <8CD580E783B0CC2-CE4-212AB@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD580E0E849C62-CE4-2123B@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> <8CD580E783B0CC2-CE4-212AB@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD580FAECDD322-CE4-213CE@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> About the show      Kaifi Aur Main is a celebration of renowned Urdu poet and film lyricist Kaifi Azmi's life and works seen through the eyes of his wife, noted theatre and film actress, Shaukat Kaifi, brought to life by his daughter Shabana Azmi and son-in-law Javed Akhtar.      Kaifi Aur Main is a theatrical collage based on the reminiscences of Kaifi and Shaukat. Scripted by Javed Akhtar, the narrative traces Kaifi and Shaukat’s journey of life from his childhood in Mijwan…their unusual romance culminating in a marriage that lasted 55 years… life in Bombay in the 50s...the Progressive Writer’s Movement… Kaifi’s social and cultural activism...his path-breaking work as a lyricist in Hindi cinema... his fight against life-threatening illness...and their relentless fight to make Mijwan a place of progress... Kaifi Aur Main is also a celebration of Kaifi Azmi’s poetry and his unparalleled contribution to Indian Cinema.      Kaifi Azmi’s recollections are brought to life by Javed Akhtar and are interwoven by Shabana Azmi with the memories of her mother Shaukat Kaifi, whose impressions make the narrative ‘a heart-warming account that rises above the personal to document the politics of an era in a distinctly female voice’.      In their inimitable style, Shabana Azmi and Javed Akhtar take us through a very personal journey and share moments that will be cherished for many a lifetime.   The sensitive and touching narrative written by Javed Akhtar is based on Shaukat Kaifi's book of memoirs Yaad Ki Rehguzar as well as on Kaifi Azmi's interviews and writings.   The narrative is interspersed with renditions of Kaifi's poems and songs by the young singer Jaswinder Singh and supported by a live orchestra.      Kaifi Aur Main is a tribute to Kaifi Azmi, his poetry, work, life and most of all his unending courage.      The journey so far….      Kaifi Aur Main premiered in Mumbai in 2006 on the 4th death anniversary of Kaifi Azmi. This theatrical collage has received standing ovations and rave reviews in India and across the world. In Nov-Dec 2006, 14 shows of this production were staged in USA-Canada-UK in cities like New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Toronto, London and others. It has also been staged in Mumbai, Delhi, Ludhiana, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Jaipur and Dubai.      The unique form of this production has won over audiences not just across borders but also across different classes and age-groups. At one level it is a heart-warming love story between two individuals from very different backgrounds. On the other hand it is the journey of a poet whose work has inspired generations of Indians. Music, poetry, drama, romance, humour, pathos and triumph of the human spirit make it universally appealing to the music connoisseur as well as the theatre enthusiast.      Shabana Azmi and Javed Akhtar, seen together for the first time on stage in this show, have charmed audiences and left them craving for more. Critical acclaim and appreciation has come from artists, writers, directors, connoisseurs, journalists and the audience at large.         Legendary poet, writer and activist, Kaifi Sahab was an integral part of IPTA (Indian People's Theatre Association). As President of IPTA he was actively involved in its administration and organisation till his last days. He inspired, cajoled and led a whole generation of theatre enthusiasts to make theatre relevant in today's times. His energy and enthusiasm was unbelievable, for he insisted in giving everything 100%. To those who didn't know him, it was difficult to believe that he had suffered from a severe stroke almost thirty years ago. But this did not deter him from striving to strengthen IPTA or single-handedly trying to transform and upgrade his native village, Mijwan in Azamgarh U.P.   Kaifi Azmi went down fighting till the last for all the causes which he fiercely supported in his life, in his work and in his art.      IPTA premiered its theatrical collage in memory of Kaifi Azmi on his 4th death anniversary in 2006. A year later, we dedicate this performance to Kaifi Sahab with the hope that we can follow his progressive philosophy and work towards a better tomorrow for our great nation.         Violin Jitendra Thakur, Tabla Ashish Jha, Guitar Sushant Sharma   Keyboard Mandar Parkhi, Percussion Surendra Belbansi   Set Design M.S.Sathyu, Lights Shaili Sathyu   (Duration: 2 hrs and 10min with interval)      Contribute to make a difference , FOR TICKETS LOG ON TO : http://www.greenpeace.org/india/en/Get-Involved/Kaifi-aur-mein/   All donations are tax exempt under section 80G.   -------------------------------------------------------------------------      From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Nov 22 12:58:03 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:28:03 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_48_on_NewMediaFest=27?= =?iso-8859-1?q?2010?= Message-ID: <20101122082805.CC629FF8.A03183DD@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest'2010 ----------------------------------- program- week 48 --> 22-28 November 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1169 ----------------------------------- 1. ----------------------------------- VideoChannel Cologne - proudly presents Feature of the Month November 2010 - part 2 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1163 Family Affair 2 - Mother, father, brothers & sisters featuring videos by following 12 artists Helga Bothe (D) - Sara Bremen (USA) - Janet Cook-Rutnik (VI) Ren Cummings (USA) - Michael Doocey (USA) - Gratuitous Art Films (USA) - Richard Jochum (A) - Tina Jokitalo (FI) - Radhamohini Prasad (IN) Robby Rackleff (USA) - Sivan Sebbag (Israel) - Péter Vadócz (HU) ----------------------------------- 2. ----------------------------------- Feature of the Week 48 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1167 JavaMuseum's netart journal "Celebrate!" - presents four fine new netart pieces --> --> We Are Friends by Hyeseung Yoo (South Korea) --> 60×365 by David Morneau (USA). --> A Witch Trial by e.w.walters (Poland). --> Digital Sculptures for Analog Sounds by P.J. Moskal (Poland) ----------------------------------- NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org ---------------------------------- From rohitrellan at aol.in Mon Nov 22 16:24:10 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 05:54:10 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Talk by Prof. Giuseppe Basile In-Reply-To: <2BEE25CD04464D27823B1AA444D5D727@tucci.edu> References: <2BEE25CD04464D27823B1AA444D5D727@tucci.edu> Message-ID: <8CD584ABA1D775E-2094-2469A@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Dear Members,            As part of the Birth Centenary Celebrations of Cesare Brandi, one of the most important figures for the theorization and diffusion of a modern restoration culture and as part of the fortnight “CARAVAGGIO 400”, dedicated to the genius of Michelangelo Merisi Caravaggio on his 4th death centenary, Italian Cultural Centre is organizing a talk    Caravaggio 400: Study on Restoration of Caravaggio’s Paintings by Cesare Brandi                                                                   Wednesday, 24th November, 6:30 pm                                                Conference Room-II                                               India International Centre                                                   40, Max Mueller Marg, Lodhi Estate An illustrated presentation by Professor Giuseppe Basile, Istituto Centrale del Restauro. The talk will deal with the restoration of paintings such as The Last Supper and The Basilica at Asissi Chair: Smt Rupika Chawla, Painting Conservator          You are cordially invited to the talk and would be grateful if you could kindly spread the word about it and let those who could be interested in the talk know about it  since an introduction to Cesare Brandi by Prof. Basile would be a good opportunity to know more about this important personality and his contribution to the field of conservation and restoration.   Regards,   Italian Embassy Cultural Centre 50-E, Chandragupta Marg Chanakyapuri, New Delhi - 110 021 Phone: 0091-11-26871901/03/04 Fax: 0091-11-26871902                     IT TE From leonardo.electronic.almanac at gmail.com Mon Nov 22 18:02:16 2010 From: leonardo.electronic.almanac at gmail.com (Lanfranco Aceti) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:32:16 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] ISEA2011 Istanbul: ERASMUS FUNDING FOR PRESENTATIONS, ART TALKS, WORKSHOPS AND PANEL Message-ID: Dear Friends and Colleagues, Please find in this *link *http://isea2011.sabanciuniv.edu/erasmus.html information regarding a possibility of funding for your travel and accommodation at ISEA2011 Istanbul. ERASMUS within THE LIFE-LONG LEARNING PROGRAMME is an EU initiative to facilitate academic exchanges and travel. With kind regards to all, *Lanfranco Aceti* Artistic Director and Conference Chair From kuhutanvir at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 02:43:49 2010 From: kuhutanvir at gmail.com (Kuhu Tanvir) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:43:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New issue of Wide Screen Message-ID: *New issue of Wide Screen is now available Wide Screen Vol.2 No.2: Special Issue on Production Studies* Guest Editors: Dorota Ostrowska and Graham Roberts Available at: http://widescreenjournal.org/index.php/journal/issue/current Link to the Table of Contents: http://widescreenjournal.org/index.php/journal/issue/current/showToc Link to the archives: http://widescreenjournal.org/index.php/journal/issue/archive For any queries, write to: kuhutanvir at gmail.com -- Wide Screen http://widescreenjournal.org/index.php/journal/index From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 10:56:54 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:56:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sharia lessons for school students in UK Message-ID: Sharia lessons for school students in UK AGENCIES, Nov 23, 2010, 05.40am IST LONDON: Pupils at Islamic schools across Britain are being taught how to chop off a criminal's hand and that Jews are conspiring to take over the world, a BBC investigation found on Monday. Up to 5,000 pupils aged between six and 18 are being taught Sharia law punishments using "weekendschool " text-books which claim those who do not believe in Islam will be subjected to "hellfire" in death. A text book for 15-year-olds advises: "For thieves their hands will be cut off for a first offence, and their foot for a subsequent offence." "The specified punishment of the thief is cutting off his right hand at the wrist. Then it is cauterised to prevent him from bleeding to death," it added. Young pupils are warned that the punishment for engaging in homosexual acts is death by stoning, burning with fire or throwing off a cliff and that the "main goal" of the Jews is to "have control over the world and its resources." The schools are part of the " Saudi Students Clubs and Schools in the UK and Ireland" organisation. They are not state-funded , and do not use Government buildings, and therefore are not inspected by the Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted). Education minister Michael Gove told the BBC programme: "I have no desire or wish to intervene in the decisions that the Saudi government makes in its own education system. "But I'm clear that we cannot have anti-Semitic material of any kind being used in English schools. Ofsted (Britain's education watchdog) will be reporting to me shortly." http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/How-to-cut-off-hands-Sharia-lessons-for-school-students-in-UK/articleshow/6973231.cms From samvitr at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 11:07:44 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:07:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sharia lessons for school students in UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Really shocking. This brings to the fore the changes in our culture. Instead of focusing on the positives of a religion we look at the extremities of it and bring out our own version. Another corruption of culture is the latest trend in Kashmir Valley where people are using camels as "kurbani". Camel is an absolute alien to the Valley. Rich Kashmiries utilized the present day terrorism for their own welfare. The heavy funding from ISI and the middle east changed the culture of the Valley. Earlier known for its Sufi version of Islam, the Valley has today corrupted itself into a miniature Middle East where people don long beards with khats, wear their watch on the right hand, keep their pyjamas above their ankle and the latest-slaughter camels as kurbani. It is so sad to see secular, sufi muslims turning into hand chopping/camel slaughtering zealots. The sooner we stop/reverse this trend the better it is for all of us. -SR On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Javed wrote: > Sharia lessons for school students in UK > AGENCIES, Nov 23, 2010, 05.40am IST > > LONDON: Pupils at Islamic schools across Britain are being taught how > to chop off a criminal's hand and that Jews are conspiring to take > over the world, a BBC investigation found on Monday. Up to 5,000 > pupils aged between six and 18 are being taught Sharia law punishments > using "weekendschool " text-books which claim those who do not believe > in Islam will be subjected to "hellfire" in death. > > A text book for 15-year-olds advises: "For thieves their hands will be > cut off for a first offence, and their foot for a subsequent offence." > > "The specified punishment of the thief is cutting off his right hand > at the wrist. Then it is cauterised to prevent him from bleeding to > death," it added. Young pupils are warned that the punishment for > engaging in homosexual acts is death by stoning, burning with fire or > throwing off a cliff and that the "main goal" of the Jews is to "have > control over the world and its resources." The schools are part of the > " Saudi Students Clubs and Schools in the UK and Ireland" > organisation. > > They are not state-funded , and do not use Government buildings, and > therefore are not inspected by the Office for Standards in Education > (Ofsted). Education minister Michael Gove told the BBC programme: "I > have no desire or wish to intervene in the decisions that the Saudi > government makes in its own education system. "But I'm clear that we > cannot have anti-Semitic material of any kind being used in English > schools. Ofsted (Britain's education watchdog) will be reporting to me > shortly." > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/How-to-cut-off-hands-Sharia-lessons-for-school-students-in-UK/articleshow/6973231.cms > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Nov 23 13:20:22 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:20:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A good essay on micro-finance Message-ID: dear All, Here is a blog that has been quietly thinking and trying to make sense of the enormous shifts in the economic fault-lines. This essay on micro-finance is illuminating. This is a kind of work that makes the blog zone so critical for our times. http://bubbleomania.blogspot.com/2010/11/microfinance-culture-of-credit-lesson.html warmly jeebesh From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 14:19:57 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:49:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Sharia lessons for school students in UK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <507387.64458.qm@web120218.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> " "For thieves their hands will be cut off for a first offence, and their foot for a subsequent offence." it is sad that they should be taking the reference of 5.38 from the quran but ignore the next ayah 5.39 which stresses the importance of repentance and forgiveness and states:   "But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (trans. yusufali) "But whoso repenteth after his wrongdoing and amendeth, lo! Allah will relent toward him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (trans. pickthall) "But whoever repents after his iniquity and reforms (himself), then surely Allah will turn to him (mercifully); surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (trans. shakir)     ............ aalok aima --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: [Reader-list] Sharia lessons for school students in UK To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 9:26 AM Sharia lessons for school students in UK AGENCIES, Nov 23, 2010, 05.40am IST LONDON: Pupils at Islamic schools across Britain are being taught how to chop off a criminal's hand and that Jews are conspiring to take over the world, a BBC investigation found on Monday. Up to 5,000 pupils aged between six and 18 are being taught Sharia law punishments using "weekendschool " text-books which claim those who do not believe in Islam will be subjected to "hellfire" in death. A text book for 15-year-olds advises: "For thieves their hands will be cut off for a first offence, and their foot for a subsequent offence." "The specified punishment of the thief is cutting off his right hand at the wrist. Then it is cauterised to prevent him from bleeding to death," it added. Young pupils are warned that the punishment for engaging in homosexual acts is death by stoning, burning with fire or throwing off a cliff and that the "main goal" of the Jews is to "have control over the world and its resources." The schools are part of the " Saudi Students Clubs and Schools in the UK and Ireland" organisation. They are not state-funded , and do not use Government buildings, and therefore are not inspected by the Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted). Education minister Michael Gove told the BBC programme: "I have no desire or wish to intervene in the decisions that the Saudi government makes in its own education system. "But I'm clear that we cannot have anti-Semitic material of any kind being used in English schools. Ofsted (Britain's education watchdog) will be reporting to me shortly." http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/How-to-cut-off-hands-Sharia-lessons-for-school-students-in-UK/articleshow/6973231.cms _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 15:50:10 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:20:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] the niira radia tapes and rs 600 crores Message-ID: <193100.75786.qm@web120218.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> interesting as it is to listen into these conversations in the niira radia tapes, there is not much revealed in them that is not already known in general about the goings-on between politicians, journalists and corporate-lobbyists   nothing much that could be termed as 'illegal' is to be found in the tapes   the journalistic ethics of vir sanghvi could be questioned over what seems to be his colluding with niira radia to promote mukesh ambani and favour him in press coverage against his brother anil ambani   for me the most significant thing brought out in the conversations is in this piece:   VIR: Where is this coming from, this pressure? RADIA: It’s coming from Stalin and his sister Sylvie. VIR: Okay. Radia: So, I believe Maran has given about 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin’s mother. VIR: 600 Crores, okay? RADIA: 600 Crores, is what I’m told. VIR It’s hard to argue with that kind of pressure?   that is what should be investigated ....... did 600 crores change hands? ...... where did those 600 crores come from? ...... where is it lying now?   .......... aalok aima From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 16:29:42 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:59:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' Message-ID: <951659.98349.qm@web120214.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> "Beware, the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 warm-blooded martyrs."   that "Throw some stones. Virtual or real" is from a  Guest post by HILAL MIR posted by Shivam Vij on 'Kafila' on 23/11/2010    http://kafila.org/2010/11/23/scavengers-pdp-mufti-mehbooba-omar-kashmir-politics/   in a thread aarti sethi (of kafila) wrote "Kafila set itself up with a very clear mandate – to articulate and represent voices and views that do not get an airing in the mainstream press."   does that articulating and representing voices and views on 'kafila' include providing a platform for the advocacy of violence?   ............ aalok aima   From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Nov 23 16:54:09 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:54:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the niira radia tapes and rs 600 crores In-Reply-To: <193100.75786.qm@web120218.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <193100.75786.qm@web120218.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > VIR: 600 Crores, okay? > RADIA: 600 Crores, is what I’m told. Can anyone please explain what form this money takes in these transactions. Is it cash? Then how many bags and rooms.? Remember Sukh Ram or Harsad Mehta. It was still within comprehension (single digit crores) and we had images of over flowing cash beds and hefty suitcases. But now the figures are a bit too exponential. So what are the forms through which these amount travels.? From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 17:20:11 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 03:50:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' In-Reply-To: <951659.98349.qm@web120214.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20276.45566.qm@web120210.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> (someone from) 'Kafila' has now removed the finale lines "Beware, the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 warm-blooded martyrs."     (my comment on the lines also has been deleted)   as of this moment, comment by one Tariq is still available "Here I am with a stone in my hand ready to hurl at them."   the article including the lines i had highlighted is available (as of now) at:   http://www.kashmirdispatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=765:scavengers&catid=103:others&Itemid=497     ............ aalok aima     --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Aalok Aima wrote: From: Aalok Aima Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' To: "reader-list list" Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 2:59 PM "Beware, the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 warm-blooded martyrs."   that "Throw some stones. Virtual or real" is from a  Guest post by HILAL MIR posted by Shivam Vij on 'Kafila' on 23/11/2010    http://kafila.org/2010/11/23/scavengers-pdp-mufti-mehbooba-omar-kashmir-politics/   in a thread aarti sethi (of kafila) wrote "Kafila set itself up with a very clear mandate – to articulate and represent voices and views that do not get an airing in the mainstream press."   does that articulating and representing voices and views on 'kafila' include providing a platform for the advocacy of violence?   ............ aalok aima         _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 17:37:36 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (SJabbar) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:37:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the niira radia tapes and rs 600 crores In-Reply-To: <193100.75786.qm@web120218.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nothing could be termed illegal? What is a Tata/Ambani PR woman doing shmoozing for Kanimozhi and trying to get journalists to put in a word to get Raja a cabinet berth? The same Raja who has swindled the country of lakhs of crores? How's unethical or immoral? What journalistic integrity does Vir Sanghvi boast of when he's offering to take Mukesh Ambani through a practice session before his TV interview? And then writes a column that is dictated by Radia? And then in his conversation with her refers to the Congress as 'we'. Hello?? Whatever happened to independent journalism? Please read all of this in the context of Mukesh Ambani boasting of the Congress as 'apni dukaan' (our shop). Will it be sheer conjecture if I assume VS is part of that shop? Pl look at the Ratan Tata-Niira Radia conversation where she tells him clearly Raja has asked for help with the media and she is helping him. Does Tata bat an eyelid? Does he say, hey, you're on my payroll, why are you getting involved? Worst of all, this same media, but for Open and Outlook, that has 'breaking news' every half an hour, every single day is completely mum about this disgusting nexus. On 23/11/10 3:50 PM, "Aalok Aima" wrote: > interesting as it is to listen into these conversations in the niira radia > tapes, there is not much revealed in them that is not already known in general > about the goings-on between politicians, journalists and > corporate-lobbyists   nothing much that could be termed as 'illegal' is to be > found in the tapes   the journalistic ethics of vir sanghvi could be > questioned over what seems to be his colluding with niira radia to promote > mukesh ambani and favour him in press coverage against his brother anil > ambani   for me the most significant thing brought out in the conversations is > in this piece:   VIR: Where is this coming from, this pressure? RADIA: It¹s > coming from Stalin and his sister Sylvie. VIR: Okay. Radia: So, I believe > Maran has given about 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin¹s mother. VIR: 600 Crores, > okay? RADIA: 600 Crores, is what I¹m told. VIR It¹s hard to argue with that > kind of pressure?   that is what should be investigated ....... did 600 crores > change hands? ...... where did those 600 crores come from? ...... where is it > lying now?   .......... aalok aima > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rohitrellan at aol.in Tue Nov 23 17:39:11 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:09:11 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation - Meeting with Kumi Naidoo - ED of Greenpeace International - 24 Nov at 430 PM In-Reply-To: <8CD591E23892B8A-8F8-16C37@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD591E23892B8A-8F8-16C37@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD591E5F82C2AE-8F8-16C70@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> Dear Friend,    Wada Na Todo Abhiyan cordially invites you for a discussion    on    'Civil Society and New Possibilities: Democratic Action in a Changing World'    Date: the 24th November 2010,    Time: 4.30 PM,    Venue: Vishwa Yuvak Kendra, Teen Murti Marg, Chanakyapuri, New Delhi (Phone: 23013631)      Programme Schedule:      Welcome address: Anil Singh, Member, Steering group, Wada Na Todo Abhiyan    Opening remarks: Dr. Rajesh Tandon, President, PRIA    Keynote address: Kumi Naidoo, Executive Director, Greenpeace International and Ambassador, Global Call to Action against Poverty GCAP (4.30 - 5.00 PM)     -Followed by Q & A session    A panel discussion: 'Civil Society and new possibilities: Democratic Action in a Changing World' (5. 00- 6.30 PM)    Moderator: Paranjoy Guha Thakurta, Journalist    Panelists:    Kumi Naidoo, Executive Director, Greenpeace International    Prof. Neera Chandhoke, Political Science Dept., Delhi University    Vote of thanks: Richa Singh, Member, Steering group, Wada Na Todo Abhiyan      For further information, please contact: Wada Na Todo Abhiyan (Ph: +91-11-46082371; Email: info at wadanatodo.net).  From rohitrellan at aol.in Tue Nov 23 17:41:44 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:11:44 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Am I an Eco Citizen? Quotes from the earth 2010, New Delhi In-Reply-To: <8CD591D1C31D0E8-8F8-16B03@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> References: <20101123061006.2162240044@mdreg-mst.qlc.co.in> <8CD591D1C31D0E8-8F8-16B03@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD591EBA7C9C1E-8F8-16CDE@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> Invitation  Toxics Link and India international Centre cordially invite you to the environment film festival      Quotes From the Earth 2010 for  Ecological Citizenship    Earth | Water | Wildlife | Sustainability    4-5th Dec 2010, 9am to 9pm, IIC New Delhi    Quotes from the earth is a discursive platform to highlight the environmental challenges at the national and international level through films which happen to be one of the most powerful medium of communication. The festival is a collaborative effort by Toxics Link and India International Centre, Delhi, organised biannually since 2004.    This being the fourth, the festival this year (4th-5th December, 2010) takes a leap of faith and acts as the fourth prong of the environmental debate and discussion. Focusing on different issues, regions, and struggles to give audience a better chance to understand and engage with broader picture of the current status of environmental issues. “Quotes from the Earth”, is the first of its kind in the Indian Capital which ensures to gather the pertinent and poignant in keeping with the existent environmental milieu.    Registration , http://toxicslink.org/event-preview.php?eventnum=305      Free entry with prior registration,  Invitation is open to all, if you wish kindly circulate    Screening Schedule    Please visit film festival page for more information : http://toxicslink.org/filmfestival/2010/web/index.html  or  Contact us at 011-24328006, 24320711  or  Write to us at info at toxicslink.org    From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 18:09:40 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 04:39:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] the niira radia tapes and rs 600 crores In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <498319.88270.qm@web120201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> sonia   unfortunately, that is how it is ...... nothing 'illegal' in what could be seen as the machinations of a vir sanghvi or a barkha dutt or a niira radia   yes one can certainly question the journalistic integrity of vir sanghvi  ...... he does give the impression of being both a 'congress-man' and a 'mukesh ambani - man'   barkha dutt comes out cleaner as compared to vir sanghvi   what niira radia is seen doing is precisely what she would be expected to do ..... she obviously gets handsomely paid, what with her 'new jaguar' and 'roberto cavalli' gown   what would certainly be 'illegal' is that if barkha dutt or vir sanghvi received compensation in cash or kind for any networking favours they did and they did not declare it as income in their tax returns    the 'media black-out' is another story   ......... aalok aima --- On Tue, 11/23/10, SJabbar wrote: From: SJabbar Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the niira radia tapes and rs 600 crores To: "Aalok Aima" , "Sarai" Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 4:07 PM Nothing could be termed illegal?  What is a Tata/Ambani PR woman doing shmoozing for Kanimozhi and trying to get journalists to put in a word to get Raja a cabinet berth? The same Raja who has swindled the country of lakhs of crores?  How's unethical or immoral? What journalistic integrity does Vir Sanghvi boast of when he's offering to take Mukesh Ambani through a practice session before his TV interview?  And then writes a column that is dictated by Radia?  And then in his conversation with her refers to the Congress as 'we'.  Hello?? Whatever happened to independent journalism? Please read all of this in the context of Mukesh Ambani boasting of the Congress as 'apni dukaan' (our shop).  Will it be sheer conjecture if I assume VS is part of that shop? Pl look at the Ratan Tata-Niira Radia conversation where she tells him clearly Raja has asked for help with the media and she is helping him.  Does Tata bat an eyelid?  Does he say, hey, you're on my payroll, why are you getting involved?  Worst of all, this same media, but for Open and Outlook, that has 'breaking news' every half an hour, every single day is completely mum about this disgusting nexus. On 23/11/10 3:50 PM, "Aalok Aima" wrote: > interesting as it is to listen into these conversations in the niira radia > tapes, there is not much revealed in them that is not already known in general > about the goings-on between politicians, journalists and > corporate-lobbyists   nothing much that could be termed as 'illegal' is to be > found in the tapes   the journalistic ethics of vir sanghvi could be > questioned over what seems to be his colluding with niira radia to promote > mukesh ambani and favour him in press coverage against his brother anil > ambani   for me the most significant thing brought out in the conversations is > in this piece:   VIR: Where is this coming from, this pressure? RADIA: It¹s > coming from Stalin and his sister Sylvie. VIR: Okay. Radia: So, I believe > Maran has given about 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin¹s mother. VIR: 600 Crores, > okay? RADIA: 600 Crores, is what I¹m told. VIR It¹s hard to argue with that > kind of pressure?   that is what should be investigated ....... did 600 crores > change hands? ...... where did those 600 crores come from? ...... where is it > lying now?   .......... aalok aima > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 20:40:11 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:10:11 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' References: <20276.45566.qm@web120210.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You should give the administrator or the writer of the post credit for this. You pointed to a wrong kind of message and they removed it. Isn't it a corrective action? You should also note that the kind of people on Kafila are too cowardly (emancipated?) to do any violence by themselves. The kind of people who can do it don't read Kafila. Some of their's support to violence is known to the readers on this list. If the deplorable comments inciting violence are removed, it should seen a positive and commendible step on part of the person who removed them. Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aalok Aima" To: "reader-list list" Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' > (someone from) 'Kafila' has now removed the finale lines "Beware, the > farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw some stones. > Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 warm-blooded > martyrs." > > (my comment on the lines also has been deleted) > > as of this moment, comment by one Tariq is still available "Here I am with > a stone in my hand ready to hurl at them." > > the article including the lines i had highlighted is available (as of now) > at: > > http://www.kashmirdispatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=765:scavengers&catid=103:others&Itemid=497 > > > ............ aalok aima > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Aalok Aima wrote: > > > From: Aalok Aima > Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' > To: "reader-list list" > Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 2:59 PM > > > "Beware, the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw > some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 > warm-blooded martyrs." > > that "Throw some stones. Virtual or real" is from a Guest post by HILAL > MIR posted by Shivam Vij on 'Kafila' on 23/11/2010 > > http://kafila.org/2010/11/23/scavengers-pdp-mufti-mehbooba-omar-kashmir-politics/ > > in a thread aarti sethi (of kafila) wrote "Kafila set itself up with a > very clear mandate – to articulate and represent voices and views that do > not get an airing in the mainstream press." > > does that articulating and representing voices and views on 'kafila' > include providing a platform for the advocacy of violence? > > ............ aalok aima > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 21:05:25 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:05:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the niira radia tapes and rs 600 crores In-Reply-To: <498319.88270.qm@web120201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <498319.88270.qm@web120201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Indian people are usually swayed by slogans in such a way that easily gift their votes to people whom they know they are frauds. strange but true. no wonder that an estimated $10000 billion has been shiphoned out during these 60 odd years. not that corruption is not in other countries, but somehow it looks there is a rat race to buy properties abroad, and settle for good, and for that they need these 600 crores and Govt has made that easy by almost legalizing hawala kind of things. I beleive less than 5000$ dolloars a day per name is a permissible transaction, and one can have 50 such transactions from different places with different name cosuch names to transfer lacs in a single day, and over the months. ( correct me if wrong ) Sad. is On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > sonia > > unfortunately, that is how it is ...... nothing 'illegal' in what could be seen as the machinations of a vir sanghvi or a barkha dutt or a niira radia > > yes one can certainly question the journalistic integrity of vir sanghvi  ...... he does give the impression of being both a 'congress-man' and a 'mukesh ambani - man' > > barkha dutt comes out cleaner as compared to vir sanghvi > > what niira radia is seen doing is precisely what she would be expected to do ..... she obviously gets handsomely paid, what with her 'new jaguar' and 'roberto cavalli' gown > > what would certainly be 'illegal' is that if barkha dutt or vir sanghvi received compensation in cash or kind for any networking favours they did and they did not declare it as income in their tax returns > > the 'media black-out' is another story > > ......... aalok aima > > --- On Tue, 11/23/10, SJabbar wrote: > > > From: SJabbar > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the niira radia tapes and rs 600 crores > To: "Aalok Aima" , "Sarai" > Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 4:07 PM > > > Nothing could be termed illegal?  What is a Tata/Ambani PR woman doing > shmoozing for Kanimozhi and trying to get journalists to put in a word to > get Raja a cabinet berth? The same Raja who has swindled the country of > lakhs of crores?  How's unethical or immoral? What journalistic integrity > does Vir Sanghvi boast of when he's offering to take Mukesh Ambani through a > practice session before his TV interview?  And then writes a column that is > dictated by Radia?  And then in his conversation with her refers to the > Congress as 'we'.  Hello?? Whatever happened to independent journalism? > Please read all of this in the context of Mukesh Ambani boasting of the > Congress as 'apni dukaan' (our shop).  Will it be sheer conjecture if I > assume VS is part of that shop? Pl look at the Ratan Tata-Niira Radia > conversation where she tells him clearly Raja has asked for help with the > media and she is helping him.  Does Tata bat an eyelid?  Does he say, hey, > you're on my payroll, why are you getting involved?  Worst of all, this same > media, but for Open and Outlook, that has 'breaking news' every half an > hour, every single day is completely mum about this disgusting nexus. > > > On 23/11/10 3:50 PM, "Aalok Aima" wrote: > >> interesting as it is to listen into these conversations in the niira radia >> tapes, there is not much revealed in them that is not already known in general >> about the goings-on between politicians, journalists and >> corporate-lobbyists > > nothing much that could be termed as 'illegal' is to be >> found in the tapes > > the journalistic ethics of vir sanghvi could be >> questioned over what seems to be his colluding with niira radia to promote >> mukesh ambani and favour him in press coverage against his brother anil >> ambani > > for me the most significant thing brought out in the conversations is >> in this piece: > > VIR: Where is this coming from, this pressure? > RADIA: It¹s >> coming from Stalin and his sister Sylvie. > VIR: Okay. > Radia: So, I believe >> Maran has given about 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin¹s mother. > VIR: 600 Crores, >> okay? > RADIA: 600 Crores, is what I¹m told. > VIR It¹s hard to argue with that >> kind of pressure? > > that is what should be investigated ....... did 600 crores >> change hands? ...... where did those 600 crores come from? ...... where is it >> lying now? > > .......... aalok aima > > > >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion >> list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an >> email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> header. > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rohitrellan at aol.in Tue Nov 23 21:18:40 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:48:40 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi Katha at IIC from 26 to 30 November 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD593BCA3ECCEA-7B8-120D7@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD593BCA3ECCEA-7B8-120D7@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD593D090A58B7-7B8-122F0@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> India International Centre     Cordially invites you to     Gandhi Katha  by     Narayan Desai        The Gandhi Katha conveys the story of Mahatma Gandhi, providing an insight into his inner recesses as well as an analysis of his role in history through storytelling with appropriate songs composed by Narayan Desai.      The Gandhi Katha started six years ago as reparative acts of creative non-violence after the violence in Gujarat in 2002.     The Katha Songs rendered by Students of Sardar Patel Vidyalaya.        Friday 26, Saturday 27, Sunday 28, Monday 29 and Tuesday 30 November 2010  Every Day from 4.30 pm to 7.30 pm     Gandhi-King Memorial Plaza  India International Centre  40, Max Mueller Marg  New Delhi -110 003     As part of this programme there will be an exhibition of photographs:     Recall the Face  Conceptualised and curated by Suryakanthi Tripathi     Exhibition of Books on Mahatma Gandhi  On view in the main verandah, IIC     Jointly organised by  India International Centre  Gandhi Peace Foundation and  Working Group on Alternative Strategies     Bus Numbers: 047,052,440,521,522,526,580;  Bus Stops:  Get off at 'Lodhi Road Xing' or 'Max Mueller Marg'.  Bus Numbers: 326, 344, 970, 994;  Bus Stops: Get off at 'Mausam Bhawan' or 'Lodhi Garden'.  Bus Numbers: 026, 048, 056, 408, 719, 734;  Bus Stop: Get off at ' Lodhi Colony 18 Block'.     Nearest Metro Stations:  ‘Jorbagh’ on Yellow Line  ‘Khan Market’ on Violet Line  Wheelchair access is available.   Narayan Desai: Born in 1924; chose not to have a formal education – support came from his father, Mahadev Desai and Gandhiji for this; worked with his father (who was Gandhiji’s personal secretary) in Gandhiji’s secretariat 1936-46; participated in the freedom movement.     After India’s Independence, active participant and leader in Vinobha Bhave’s Bhoodan Movement from 1952-60 and later with Jayaprakash Narayan 1960-76; walked 12,000 kms and received 3000 acres of land for distribution; was National Secretary of the Shanti Sena, the All India People’s Committee, Chairman of the War Resistors International, and Founder Member and Director of World Peace Brigade.     An accomplished author and editor; has written over 50 books in Gujarati, Hindi and English, including the epic four-volume biography in Gujarati Maru Jivan Ej Mari Vani* – hailed as one of the finest insights into the life of Gandhi; has edited Bhoomiputra, Yaqueen, Buniyadi Yaqueen, Tarun Mun  and Sarvodaya Jagat, has won many awards that include the Bharatiya Jnanpith Murtidevi Award, the Sahitya Akademi Award, the Ranajitram Suvarna Chandrak (highest literary award in Gujarati); also received the Jamnalal Bajaj Award for constructive work and UNESCO Madanjeet Singh Award for Non-violence and Tolerance; is Chancellor of the Gujarat Vidyapeeth (founded by Gandhiji in 1920) and President of Gujarati Sahitya Parishad; lives in Vedchhi, a small tribal village in south Gujarat, where he set up a centre to train activists in Gandhiji’s values – here hundreds of young rural activists have learnt manual work and self-reliance and have gone on to question the  'developmental model' in various parts of the country.       * Now available in English, translated from the original Gujarati by Tridip Suhrud and published by Orient BlackSwan in four volumes: My Life is My Message (2009).        For any further information please contact:  India International Centre (Premola Ghose/L.S. Tochhawng-24619431)  Gandhi Peace Foundation (Ramesh Sharma-9868221950)                                 Working Group on Alternative Strategies (Suhas Borker-9868182845)              -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CinemaloversMumbai" group.  To post to this group, send an email to cinemaloversmumbai at googlegroups.com.  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cinemaloversmumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.  For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cinemaloversmumbai?hl=en-GB.  From rohitrellan at aol.in Tue Nov 23 21:34:33 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:04:33 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Project Bandaloop: Dance as you have never seen it! In-Reply-To: <8CD593CE229F382-7B8-122B7@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD593CE229F382-7B8-122B7@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD593F3C09FABB-7B8-126FB@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> Project Bandaloop: Dance as you have never seen it!    The AmericanCenter will be presenting aerialperformers Project Bandaloop in stunning action atop Jeevan Bharati, the LIC Buildingin New Delhi onNovember 26, 2010 at 1 p.m. and 6.30 p.m.  Given the location and height of the building,the shows will be visible from several points in and around Connaught Place, Parliament Street and Janpath. The event is produced by Seher in cooperation with Delhi Tourism.    Since its launch in1991, the company has performed for close to half a million people.  ProjectBandaloop is arguably the first company in the world to explore an art form thatfuses movement with mountaineering techniques. Bandaloop performs in naturaland urban settings, in theaters, halls, towers, bridges, skyscrapers, mountains. Though the group has performed in India last year, too, (in Mumbai at a privatefunction and in Mussoorie at founder Amelia Rudolph’s alma mater Woodstock) this is their first performance in New Delhi. They will starttheir 2010 tour with a show at the historic Golconda Fort in Hyderabad. The sharp contrast with Jeevan Bharati, the glass, stone and metalstructure created by architect Charles Correa in the 1980s, sits well withBandaloop’s own philosophy of fusion and creativity.  Three decades ago, Correa was criticized forbeing too futuristic – a word that has been used for Bandaloop too, though in amore glowing reference.    Accordingto the U.S. Embassy’s Cultural Affairs Officer Michael Macy, Bandalooprepresents America’sspirit of innovation and creativity. “Bandaloop’s style is also in a sense itssubstance. The group has broken new ground even as its dancers leave usmesmerized by their poetic mid-air movements.  In presenting this extremely non-traditionalgroup, we want to focus on the potential of the human mind to explore, redefineand cross boundaries. It was, therefore, important to us to reach out to asmany people as we could by presenting the show in a public place, and making itaccessible for all.”    Interestingly,Bandaloop founder Amelia Rudolph spent much of her childhood in India. Analumnus of Woodstock School,  she gave her first public dance performance as a seven-year-old student ofBharatnatyam in Jaipur.      They perform on 26th November 2010 at the LIC Building, Jeevan Bharati, Connaught Place, New Delhi!    1.30 pm and 6.30pm    Please help support the project    From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 14:11:27 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:41:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <471490.71690.qm@web120213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> tara prakash   i agree ..... a very positive and commendable step that from the article the lines advocating violence have been removed   something else has been teasing my mind   violence is a crime, advocating violence (the writer hilal mir) is a crime, knowingly providing a platform for advocacy of violence is a crime ...... i see shivam vij and/or kafila complicit in that crime   is it enough to just remove the 'lines'? one person Tariq was already provoked by the article into declaring "Here I am with a stone in my hand ready to hurl at them." (that comment has also been removed now)   i have been thinking .......   the bjp chief minister of karnataka has been accused of illegalities in allocation of state-land to his family members ...... the family members then surrender those lands ...... is that enough? does that wash out the crime?   defence personell have been accused of illegally receiving allotment of flats in the 'adarsh housing scam' in mumbai ....... they then surrender those flats ...... is that enough? is their complicity in a crime negated?   we in public space, cannot be kangaroo courts to levy penalties or give punishments ....... but we in public space do have a right to expect an acknowledgement of the crime and at the very least an apology ........ whether it comes from yeddyurappa of karnataka or from the defence personell in mumbai ..... or from shivam vij and/or kafila   i am expecting too much i guess   .......... aalok aima       --- On Tue, 11/23/10, TaraPrakash wrote: From: TaraPrakash Subject: Re: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' To: "Aalok Aima" , "reader-list list" Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 7:10 PM You should give the administrator or the writer of the post credit for this. You pointed to a wrong kind of message and they removed it. Isn't it a corrective action? You should also note that the kind of people on Kafila are too cowardly (emancipated?) to do any violence by themselves. The kind of people who can do it don't read Kafila. Some of their's support to violence is known to the readers on this list. If the deplorable comments inciting violence are removed, it should seen a positive and commendible step on part of the person who removed them. Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aalok Aima" To: "reader-list list" Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' > (someone from) 'Kafila' has now removed the finale lines "Beware, the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 warm-blooded martyrs." > > (my comment on the lines also has been deleted) > > as of this moment, comment by one Tariq is still available "Here I am with a stone in my hand ready to hurl at them." > > the article including the lines i had highlighted is available (as of now) at: > > http://www.kashmirdispatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=765:scavengers&catid=103:others&Itemid=497 > > > ............ aalok aima > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Aalok Aima wrote: > > > From: Aalok Aima > Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' > To: "reader-list list" > Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 2:59 PM > > > "Beware, the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 warm-blooded martyrs." > > that "Throw some stones. Virtual or real" is from a Guest post by HILAL MIR posted by Shivam Vij on 'Kafila' on 23/11/2010 > > http://kafila.org/2010/11/23/scavengers-pdp-mufti-mehbooba-omar-kashmir-politics/ > > in a thread aarti sethi (of kafila) wrote "Kafila set itself up with a very clear mandate – to articulate and represent voices and views that do not get an airing in the mainstream press." > > does that articulating and representing voices and views on 'kafila' include providing a platform for the advocacy of violence? > > ............ aalok aima > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Nov 24 15:09:52 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:09:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' In-Reply-To: <471490.71690.qm@web120213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <471490.71690.qm@web120213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <74399EE4-9A6A-47DB-9807-0E3A46DF4AD9@sarai.net> Sorry. This is not much of a thinking. just self righteousness pious posturing :) On 24-Nov-10, at 2:11 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > tara prakash > > i agree ..... a very positive and commendable step that from the > article the lines advocating violence have been removed > > something else has been teasing my mind > > violence is a crime, advocating violence (the writer hilal mir) is a > crime, knowingly providing a platform for advocacy of violence is a > crime ...... i see shivam vij and/or kafila complicit in that crime > > is it enough to just remove the 'lines'? one person Tariq was > already provoked by the article into declaring "Here I am with a > stone in my hand ready to hurl at them." (that comment has also been > removed now) > > i have been thinking ....... > > the bjp chief minister of karnataka has been accused of illegalities > in allocation of state-land to his family members ...... the family > members then surrender those lands ...... is that enough? does that > wash out the crime? > > defence personell have been accused of illegally receiving allotment > of flats in the 'adarsh housing scam' in mumbai ....... they then > surrender those flats ...... is that enough? is their complicity in > a crime negated? > > we in public space, cannot be kangaroo courts to levy penalties or > give punishments ....... but we in public space do have a right to > expect an acknowledgement of the crime and at the very least an > apology ........ whether it comes from yeddyurappa of karnataka or > from the defence personell in mumbai ..... or from shivam vij and/or > kafila > > i am expecting too much i guess > > .......... aalok aima > > > > --- On Tue, 11/23/10, TaraPrakash wrote: > > > From: TaraPrakash > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' > To: "Aalok Aima" , "reader-list list" > > Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 7:10 PM > > > You should give the administrator or the writer of the post credit > for this. You pointed to a wrong kind of message and they removed > it. Isn't it a corrective action? > You should also note that the kind of people on Kafila are too > cowardly (emancipated?) to do any violence by themselves. The kind > of people who can do it don't read Kafila. Some of their's support > to violence is known to the readers on this list. If the deplorable > comments inciting violence are removed, it should seen a positive > and commendible step on part of the person who removed them. > > Cheers > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aalok Aima" > To: "reader-list list" > Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' > > >> (someone from) 'Kafila' has now removed the finale lines "Beware, >> the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. Throw >> some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to those 110 >> warm-blooded martyrs." >> >> (my comment on the lines also has been deleted) >> >> as of this moment, comment by one Tariq is still available "Here I >> am with a stone in my hand ready to hurl at them." >> >> the article including the lines i had highlighted is available (as >> of now) at: >> >> http://www.kashmirdispatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=765:scavengers&catid=103:others&Itemid=497 >> >> >> ............ aalok aima >> >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Aalok Aima wrote: >> >> >> From: Aalok Aima >> Subject: [Reader-list] advocacy of violence on 'Kafila' >> To: "reader-list list" >> Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 2:59 PM >> >> >> "Beware, the farce called panchayat elections is round the corner. >> Throw some stones. Virtual or real. Stop them. You owe this to >> those 110 warm-blooded martyrs." >> >> that "Throw some stones. Virtual or real" is from a Guest post by >> HILAL MIR posted by Shivam Vij on 'Kafila' on 23/11/2010 >> >> http://kafila.org/2010/11/23/scavengers-pdp-mufti-mehbooba-omar-kashmir-politics/ >> >> in a thread aarti sethi (of kafila) wrote "Kafila set itself up >> with a very clear mandate – to articulate and represent voices and >> views that do not get an airing in the mainstream press." >> >> does that articulating and representing voices and views on >> 'kafila' include providing a platform for the advocacy of violence? >> >> ............ aalok aima >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 18:22:24 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 04:52:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] 1 incident & 4 newspaper versions (in Kashmir - where else) Message-ID: <479785.80117.qm@web120206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> i am sure there is a Doctoral Thesis to be found in "Prejudiced Reporting and Interpretation of News & History in Kashmir" (would need a more impressively academic sounding title)   here are 4 versions of the same incident with 2 conflicting "eyewitness" accounts:     1. "Kashmir Images" version: " Meanwhile, police spokesman said a shopkeeper identified as Arif Ahmad Bhat, son of Mohammad Ahsan, resident of Akhan-Anantnag, was “beaten to pulp by miscreants at Chini-Chowk, Anantnag, for not observing the shutdown.” He said the shopkeeper was rescued by the police, and shifted to hospital where he said his condition is stable." http://dailykashmirimages.com/Details.aspx?Id=5395&CatNewsId=19 2.  "Kashmir Observer" version: "The street battles continued for several hours, leaving several persons injured. The injured included two policemen, Mukhtar Ahmad and Muhammad Arif, and a 16 year-old student, Arif Ahmad Bhat. The student was rushed to the district hospital, but doctors there referred him to the SKIMS in Srinagar because of his critical condition." http://www.kashmirobserver.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6270%3Apitched-battles-in-anantnag-after-arrests-10-injured-&catid=15%3Atop-news&Itemid=2 3. "Greater Kashmir" version: "One of the critically injured persons, Arif Ahmad Bhat S/O Muhammad Ahsan Bhat of Akhran, a tea stall owner, who according to eyewitnesses was mercilessly thrashed by forces, was referred to SKIMS. Police claimed that he was injured by a stone. However, doctors in SKIMS Srinagar said that Arif was assaulted. “He has sustained grievous head injury due to the alleged beating,” said Medical Superintendent SKIMS, Dr Amin Tabish, adding that Arif has to undergo surgery." http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/24/protests-in-islamabad-35.asp 4. "Kashmir Dispatch" version: "A youth identified as Arif Ahmad, son of Mohammad Ahsan Bhat received head injuries when a trooper allegedly hurled a stone at him near Lal Chowk. The injured youth was rushed to SK Institute of Medical Sciences, Srinagar for specialized treatment. However, the Srinagar based police spokesperson said, Arif was beaten by miscreants who were enforcing a shutdown in the area, he refused to close his shop which led to an argument and subsequent beating by the miscreants" http://www.kashmirdispatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=781:clashes-break-out-in-islamabad-6-hurt&catid=132:headlines&Itemid=636 the "eyewitnesses" of Kashmir Dispatch report that Arif Ahmad received head injuries "when a trooper ..... hurled a stone at him" .......... but the "eyewitnesses" of Greater Kashmir report that Arif Ahmad "was mercilessly thrashed by forces"   ........... aalok aima From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 18:37:24 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:07:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] defying geelani's diktats in kashmir Message-ID: <671464.71850.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Separatist-shutdown-partially-affects-life-in-Kashmir/articleshow/6980633.cms#ixzz16Cg0lzu9   "   Main markets in Srinagar city and towns like Anantnag, Kupwara, Badgam, Pulwama and Sopore remained closed Wednesday but educational institutions, banks, post offices, government offices, private transport and markets on the city peripheries and in uptown residential areas functioned normally. Faced with lukewarm response, Geelani has called just two days of shutdown Wednesday and Saturday this week, according to his present weekly calendar. This is a huge departure from his earlier protest calendar which had allowed just a day of normalcy in a week and paralysed life across the valley for over four months. Authorities here have definitely been encouraged by the declining public response to the separatist-called shutdowns and a clear proof of this is their decision not to impose any curfew or restrictions during the protests now. Earlier, the authorities would react almost in panic and impose curfew or restrictions the moment the separatists called for shutdown or protests. " From anu.mukh at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 18:54:49 2010 From: anu.mukh at gmail.com (anuradha mukherjee) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:54:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On the Delhi Metro: An Ethnographic View Message-ID: http://beta.epw.in/newsItem/comment/188947/ On the Delhi Metro: An Ethnographic View By: Rashmi Sadana Vol XLV No.46 November 13, 2010 * The idea of a “mental landscape” is associated with a spatial understanding of modernity that has long been central to the scholarship on cities and to urban ethnography. In this essay, the focus on space is threefold and includes: (1) the new cultural geography that is created by the physical imposition of the metro edifice on Delhi’s landscape; (2) the spaces created within the metro itself (on trains and in stations) and the practices associated with those new spaces; and (3) the spatial imaginaries experienced by individual riders. * The Metro will totally transform our social culture giving us a sense of discipline, cleanliness and enhance multifold development of this cosmopolitan city. – Delhi Metro Managing Director, Elattuvalapil Sreedharan (Joshi 2001). The train to Dwarka is very crowded even on a Sunday early in the afternoon. I stand on the platform for some time, letting trains go by, and then get on. Central Delhi may be more still, and the road traffic less, but inside the metro there are throngs of people going places. Sometimes they crush into one another, as at rush hour. On any weekday at Rajiv Chowk – the metro station and hub beneath Connaught Place – commuters line up in neat rows waiting for the Dwarka train, only to dissolve into a mass once the train arrives and the doors slide open. The logic of entering and exiting the train is whichever side has more people wins, like a scrimmage. These are head on collisions as people push past each other. The spoils are there for all to see: for those coming in, a shiny seat; for those going out, their destination in record time and comfort. Inside, nothing divides the cars of the train in what resembles a long metal centipede. I have become accustomed to watching the chrome bars align and realign to the sinuous movements of the train, travelling 80 kilometres an hour nearly 13 metres underground in the darkness. At Chawri Bazaar, the deepest station, I emerge from the engineering marvel into a thick landscape of vendors, vehicles, and crumbling facades, where electrical cords hang from above and wires seem to be strewn across the sky. Heading west, above ground, to Rithala or Dwarka – the new sub-cities of Delhi – the city opens up and peters out; circling birds, low-level dwellings, institutes, and the occasional shopping mall make up the landscape. On the Rithala train, your eye grazes the tops of buildings as you travel from one station to the next. On the way to Dwarka, you seem to be even higher up and see more of the expanse. The east-west lines are for commuters; the trains go above ground soon after Connaught Place, and people tend to stay on for more than a few stops. There is time to relax and settle in. On one ride, I watch a few young men in their early 20s sit cross-legged on the floor, talking and laughing. Three younger boys, 13- or 14-year-old, stand in front of them, doing pull-ups on the high bar, joking, trying to get the attention of the young men by entertaining them with curiosities pulled from their pockets. One says he has Afghan currency and is parading it around. It is a scene you might see almost anywhere in the city, an approximation of the street below, and yet completely removed from it. Many people are hooked up to music players or talking on their mobiles. Men carry goods in tightly packed cartons; toddlers lie on the seats or stand up on them to look out the window, delighting at their own reflection. People mostly sit quietly; they do not eat or drink or spit. Most noticeable is what is missing: heat, sweat, food, smell, trash. The elements have been reordered, enabling a different view of this city of 14 million. Sometimes passengers just look around, almost as if there is not enough to notice. Curiously, people look, but do not stare, even the multiple packs of young men in slim jeans. On the platform there is a rush around the escalators. A wide circle forms at the bottom of each one. It slowly shrinks as people move up. A smaller group waits for the elevator. “Stay Fit, Use the Stairs” signs are posted at each exit, placed there, it turns out, not to keep the populace in shape, but to encourage the able-bodied to leave room in the elevators for others. And then, once upstairs (or downstairs, if at an overground station) you pass through the electronic gates once more and are out of the station. Some walk, others look for a bus or an auto or cycle rickshaw. Outside the Jahangirpuri station, I walk for 45 minutes along a dusty path through low-income housing and see nothing resembling central Delhi. This is a working-class community that all of a sudden feels included in the city, connected to this gleaming train. Women living here have stated that they feel safe to venture on the metro alone, and for the first time will go to India Gate without their husbands. And as I sit outside the station one afternoon, I see these women coming and going, with suitcases and parcels, or just with each other. A cycle rickshaw driver outside the station tells me that now most of his trips involve ferrying people to and from the metro. It has been good for his business, though he has yet to ride it himself. Where would I leave my rickshaw, he asks? A documentary on V S Naipaul features footage from his most recent trip to Delhi, one that included a ride on the metro. What does the man, who was infamous for having expounded on the filth and disorder of Indian cities, have to say? “Very nice, very nice”, he can be heard muttering as he passes through the electronic gate. Naipaul’s response to the metro is akin to countless others I had heard, and to what I myself had experienced. Who could not be impressed? The ordered space and gleaming surfaces are nothing if not a crucible of the city’s modernity. The metro is a marvel, something to marvel at, for anyone who visits Delhi, but also, and especially so, for its residents. It goes against everything they know. It is shiny, cool and clean, but it was also built on time, within budget, and without the infamous corruption that stalls or derails so many public and private sector projects. When Naipaul exits the metro, chatting with the filmmaker, he remarks on the “endless announcements” in the trains, and how people are “behaving with great dignity”; they were “following the rules”. And then he speculates that the experience of riding the metro will, over time, “make them more civil”. Here he seems to be back in Naipaulian territory: to what extents do bodily actions and repetitions make the man or woman? It was the distinction he made long ago in An Area of Darkness (1964) on watching a sweeper at work: there was the act of sweeping and there was the condition of being a sweeper. In the latter, Naipaul saw the social ills of a deeply hierarchical society, and went on to make his pronouncements about Indian stagnation among other things. One day as I pull into Ramesh Nagar Station, a man pushing a wide broom moves slowly across the empty platform. He is not a sweeper, but a uniformed metro worker who works for a company to which the Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC) has outsourced its “housekeeping”. Of the metro Naipaul makes the following observation: The passengers are trying to match the metro with their own behaviour (Low 2008). It is an old postulation, and one I have continually heard in relation to the metro, about how new forms and ways of being are taking hold in society, and how the environment of the metro makes people “more sophisticated”. What is it about the metro that makes people act in certain ways? Are Dilliwallas proud of the metro and so of themselves? Are they, in fact, more civil because the surroundings are new and clean, and full of security and CCTV cameras? And who would be a better spokesperson for this grand neoliberal vision – of individuals who gain autonomy as they “freely” subject themselves to new rules and regulations – than Naipaul? The question of behaviour in public spaces and notions of civility and cleanliness is linked to the history of urbanisation and colonialism, most often as articulated through issues of caste and class. In his discussion of the colonial-era bazaars and parks of Calcutta, Dipesh Chakrabarty describes a colonialist/nationalist “call to discipline, public health, and public order” in public spaces that went unheeded by most Indians, spurring him to ask: “Can one read this as a refusal to become citizens of an ideal, bourgeois order?” (Chakrabarty 2002: 77). In the case of the metro, which is a highly managed space, there is little scope for “refusal”. *A New Urban Landscape* Since the 1990s, the rise of middle class consumer culture and the dynamism of global capital positions Delhi as a cosmopolitan city.1 Yet this image belies a host of competing interests for resources in the city. Since Delhi became the colonial capital in 1911, the city’s planning and architecture have highlighted competing modernist visions, the competition for resources, and essentially, who should live in the city (who it is made for and who it accommodates), as well as how people should live in it. Today, it is transportation (how people move through the city) that has become the centre of many of those visions, narratives, and competitions. Much attention has been paid to the fact that the Delhi metro was completed on time and under budget (Lakshman 2007); and, like many subway systems the world over, a narrative of optimism and achievement (Brooks 1997) has dominated the planning and construction phases of this mega-project. Delhi’s legendary traffic has made it infamous as a dangerous and disorderly urban space, and it is often stated that the city has more cars than Mumbai, Kolkata, and Chennai combined. It is also a city of great elegance and order, with its magisterial Mughal-era monuments and gardens, leafy middle class colonies, and broad tree-lined roads of Lutyen’s New Delhi. As a symbol alone, the metro has already gone some way to dismantle this paradox and is seen as unambiguous evidence of progress and development; it is seen as proof that Delhi is indeed a “world-class” city. However, what this means and whose world it contains is up for debate.2 Like shopping malls, Café Coffee Days and Baristas, the Delhi metro provides a new, all-encompassing sensory and spatial experience with its air-conditioned comfort and hi-tech surveillance. But the metro is open to a much wider spectrum of people. It is as much about commuting and finding new routes for a variety of activities as it is about consuming. For some, the aspirers and admirers, it means that you can be on the metro and imagine you are anywhere in the world. And indeed, the metro can take you to new places; this new mental landscape is as significant as what the metro is forging on the ground. The idea of a “mental landscape” is associated with a spatial understanding of modernity that has long been central to the scholarship on cities and to urban ethnography. In this essay, my focus on space is threefold and includes: (1) the new cultural geography that is created by the physical imposition of the metro edifice on Delhi’s landscape; (2) the spaces created within the metro itself (on trains and in stations) and the practices associated with those new spaces; and (3) the spatial imaginaries experienced by individual riders, as understood through my interviews with riders and as represented in popular Hindi films featuring the Delhi metro. *Delhi’s Built Environment* Major public transit systems have long been a way not only to assess modernity (Berman 1988), but, more specifically, to determine the “health” of cities (Cudhay 2003). Yet, as Marc Augé (2002) has shown in his ethnography of the Paris metro, there is an everyday life underground that puts into relief the urban condition as much as it changes it. The metro is seen by some as a “cure” to the urban ills of pollution, stress, accidents, and death itself – a clean, smooth, fast, cheap, air-conditioned alternative to hot, bumpy roads jammed with cars, mopeds, bicycles, cycle and auto rickshaws, carts, buses, and taxis. Newspapers offer a running account of Delhi’s traffic woes, reports of accidents on higher speed newly built flyovers and expressways, of Blueline buses knocking over motorcyclists or ploughing through a line of waiting passengers; of drivers absconding in the aftermath of crashes. New campaigns on billboards and in newspaper ads warn people not to drink and drive and to obey traffic rules, or else be subjected to a dreaded traffic ticket or challan. Anyone who saw Connaught Place as the metro was being built, or has travelled through south Delhi in the last few years, knows that the construction of the metro has depended on a lot of destruction. During the first phase of the massive project, numerous neighbourhoods that the metro would soon pass through first became construction zones piled high with dust, corrugated metal sheets, cement, and cranes. Traffic was re-routed and city-dwellers in many areas suffered from what one urban planner called “a tidal wave of physical destruction and social disorientation” (Siemiatycki 2006: 286). Then these same areas were restored and even embellished, as dislocation became relocation. Above ground, in the run-up to the October 2010 Commonwealth Games, thick concrete stanchions continued to rise up all over the city as Delhi’s visual landscape was being changed forever. Soon it will be hard to remember what the city was like before the metro. The metro has already made a variety of architectural and environmental marks on the city, sometimes by knocking down or obscuring other pieces of the city’s heritage. The elevated metro line that passes near Qutub Minar was re-routed so that it would not obstruct a view of the 12th century monument. The Delhi Urban Art Commission (DUAC), which was set up by Indira Gandhi in 1974 when Delhi was going “skyscraper happy”, and the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) appealed to the dmrc to save this view by changing the route of the metro. It was the first time the mighty DMRC, which had been given the green light by the Delhi government to criss-cross neighbourhoods as it saw fit, changed their routing. The corporation, a government entity partnered with 500 private contractors, was initially resistant. After all it would require changing the route of the line and it would cost an extra Rs 300 crore. Instead, the DMRC countered, wouldn’t people be able to see the monument while on the metro? But once they were shown a presentation of how Kolkata’s metro had messed up the historic Chowringhee Lane, they agreed. Despite the ability to convince the DMRC to change the line, a former DUAC member told me that ultimately the organisation has little power vis-à-vis the powers that be, by which she meant the city’s professional urban planners, and that there is no real public discourse on how Delhi should urbanise. And then she added, “The DUAC has polite interactions now with the Delhi Development Authority (dda), whose own members”, she said, “have become more sophisticated. They have travelled to Barcelona”. An environmental lawyer working with the Save the Yamuna River campaign put it more bluntly: What was urban development, he said, but a mafia of builders, bureaucrats, and politicians?3 How, then, do changes in the built environment reveal a politics of difference among those who benefit from the metro – individuals and communities – and those who may not? It is precisely with these questions that issues of citizenship, or rights, become “cultural”, or based on values, lifestyles, livelihoods, and a host of other not easily categorisable ways of being. In this vein, James Holston and Arjun Appadurai (1999) have written of a liberal citizenship that produces “citizens who are predominately passive in their citizenship” and who are “for the most part, spectators who vote”. Much of the debate about the existence or non-existence of a “public” in Delhi who can contest or approve of the metro revolves around this point in particular as articulated by Holston and Appadurai: “…without active participation in the business of rule, they are citizens whose citizenship is managed, for better or worse, by an unelected bureaucracy” (1999: 7). *The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation* In promotional videos made by the DMRC, the narrative of the metro is clear: Delhi used to be clean before Independence, but went on to become the fourth most polluted city in the world. The need for a metro was an urgent one. One public relations representative from the DMRC told me in no uncertain terms that the city was “on the brink of collapse” before the metro arrived. Now with the metro, there is a new order and discipline that is taking the city forward. And, in this sense, the discourse around the metro highlights the most recent narrative about the “new” India, a nation that is “rising” and being recognised as a formidable presence on the global political, economic, and cultural stage. Even as the major daily newspapers in India and around the world reported the embarrassments due to the lack of preparation for the Commonwealth Games, the metro which was hurriedly being finished and whose Airport Line is still to open was by contrast still heralded for its superior planning and execution. The metro is a global venture in that it was built with Japanese loans, South Korean technology, and partnerships with a number of countries, including Germany and Sweden, where the first trains were built. JAICO (the conglomerate that has given the Japanese loan to the Indian government to make the metro) is an organisation that one outside consultant described to me as being a combination of “touchy-feely NGO types who want to help societies” and “bankers who want a return on their investment”. Oriental Consultants is meant to critique the project, to show what is and what is not happening. But they are not meant to question the viability of the metro itself. What they may question is if “stockholders” are being served; stockholders are the Indian public who use or are affected in any way by the metro. Are they getting compensated if they had to move out of the metro’s way, for instance? Is there a forum or procedure for them to air grievances? It is in this manner that we can begin to think about how the construction of the metro has created new publics, both real and imagined. And it is where Delhi-based NGOs such as the Hazards Centre have stepped in to document and address the needs of those who have been displaced by the metro. Despite all the foreign capital, the Delhi metro’s production is being increasingly indigenised. Trains are now being manufactured in Bangalore and Gujarat. And, it is the DMRC whose expertise is going global – from Ireland to Indonesia – as it is being asked by these and other cities around the world to consult on their metro projects. This is good news for the DMRC since it takes Rs 100 crore on average to build a kilometre of the metro. Many urban activists and planners not working with the DMRC have questioned the kind of investment the metro is (Mohan 2008; Roy 2009). The much-maligned Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) route that crosses south Delhi, by comparison, takes Rs 15 crore a kilometre to build. But the BRT is hardly the darling of the city the way the metro is. It is not only because of the gleaming trains, however. The metro is part of the larger package of the DMRC, which has been heralded for its Indian efficiency, largely due to the management skills of its director, E Sreedharan who has been called nothing less than a “miracle-worker” (Lakshman 2007). Sreedharan is heralded not merely for his vision, but the personal discipline and focus that he has been able to ingrain in the 4,000 workers of the DMRC. Most crucially, however, he is able to get things done because he has the complete confidence and support of the DMRC Board of Directors. Without him, I was often told, the entire project would simply stall. *Carefully Managed Image* The image of the DMRC is a carefully managed one, and you only need to look at the many interviews with Sreedharan on CNN-IBN and a host of other television channels to see that these interviews and features are really hagiographies. It is hard not to be swayed by Sreedharan’s discipline and energy, as we watch him at the age of 76, in an orange vest climbing the stairs at metro construction sites faster than the young reporters trying to catch up to him. There is no hint of irony when the reporters talk about Sreedharan’s ability to convince people to sell their land, and how he has the foresight to send packers and movers to those who are moving out of the metro’s way. In July 2009, after a dramatic accident at an overground metro construction site in south Delhi that left six workers dead and 14 injured, Sreedharan resigned, citing his moral responsibility for the accident. However, the Delhi government, headed by Sheila Dixit would not accept his resignation, and Sreedharan was back on the job within 48 hours. Most recently, the nation watched as Sreedharan suffered a heart attack, made a full recovery, and within two months returned to his full duties. Now he is set to retire by the end of this year but even that date may be delayed by at least a couple of months. I made numerous visits over a 15-month period to the Public Relations department at the Metro Bhavan, the DMRC’s new headquarters just off Barakhamba Road in Connaught Place. I was always kindly greeted and offered a number of DMRC publications to purchase. They kept asking me to give them my survey, and I kept telling them that I wanted to talk to people instead. I knew this might not be easy in a corporation where everyone was not only busy but also cautious about the image being created. Now, as the DMRC becomes a major brand in Indian efficiency, there is what can only be called a pan-Indian desire for the metro. Numerous other Indian cities – including Chennai and Bangalore – have begun projects; and smaller cities, from Cochin to Ludhiana – are considering them. Everyone, it would seem, would like to get on board. Sreedharan himself has said that any Indian city with a population of three million or more should have a metro. There are 30 Indian cities that would qualify on that basis alone. The DMRC is not shy about touting its fabled work ethic in its own promotional materials, from posters in their own workplace, to ads in the metro, pamphlets, and hardback volumes available for purchase. Posters at the new Metro Bhavan proclaim their professional work culture as a combination of accountability, transparency, teamwork, and time-bound commitments. The Metro Bhavan itself sets the tone with its vast, airy lobby and edifice made of warm grey stone, and glass elevator shafts allowing you to see the cables at work. The workers – many of whom came from the Indian Railways – do yoga and value time, we are told. The Metro Museum at Patel Chowk station features photographs of metro workers en masse in yoga poses alongside the trains themselves. The message throughout is that individual discipline, focus, and transparency has made the metro. But in the Metro Museum, the most popular display is a map of the system, illuminating the parts of the metro that are in operation with moving coloured lights representing the yellow, blue, and red lines. People stand transfixed in front of the display. The metro is moving the city and being moved by it. The new work culture and the values associated with the metro are now being promoted more widely, even beyond the plans for metros in other cities. Sreedharan himself has spearheaded a new group called the Foundation for the Restoration of National Values (FRNV) based on the teachings of his guru, Swami Bhoomananda Tirtha. The group asserts that it does not mean to promote religious views or one religion over another, but instead has a more secular coupling of “administrative might” with “spiritual elegance”, largely coming from universal ethical values as described in the Bhagavad Gita. What FRNV seeks to address is a contradiction they see between India’s “growing economic competence” yet “failing ethical conduct”, as described in their own brochures and website (Tirtha 2008). I attended a two-day meeting they held in Delhi in November 2008 where the work ethic of the metro was meant to inspire new forms of ethical practice in areas such as education, healthcare, and the media. A roster of high-profile speakers on multiple panels took on the issue of values and ethics in their respective fields. The goal is nothing less than transforming Indian society and its institutions in the image of the DMRC, one that is efficient and free of corruption. It would seem the metro is not only a form of transport, but also a way forward for society more generally. It has become part of a larger platform for change as directed by the techno-managerial class. And, it is in this respect that we may see the metro as a crucible for an entirely new form of “cultural citizenship”, that is, the ways in which nation-building and identity-formation intersect with day to day civic belonging (Rosaldo 2003; Ong 1999). Not surprisingly, the discourse on the metro has also become a referendum on Delhi politicians. Parties and individual politicians take credit for it, while it has also become a symbol of relating to the general public. So in the 2009 general election, we saw politicians riding the metro in high-profile journeys to meet constituents and give speeches. Something similar is happening in the city of Taipei with their relatively new metro and the government entity known as the MRT (Mass Rapid Transit) that runs it; the metro there has come to represent a locus of feelings about the government more generally (Lee 2007); and even in New York City, with its 100-year-old clanking subway system, the 2009 proposal to raise fares by 25% has prompted all kind of outcries against the New York City government. Yes, metro systems are about the health of cities, but they are also much more than that. As Alaina Lemon has written in her study of the Moscow metro, “Talking about transit, its practices and infrastructures, really concerns who should be included in the city, in the nation” (Lemon 2000: 35). In this vein, I would suggest that the Delhi metro marks the arrival not merely of a new form of transport, but for new definitions of expertise and notions of the civic. The metro blurs some lines of exclusion even as it solidifies others. *Delhi Up-Down* The metro can seem like a great leveller, as riders of different social and economic backgrounds sit side by side, all subject to a new transportation regime directed by the hand of the state in the form of the DMRC. At Rs 8 to 30 a ride, riding the Delhi metro proves to be one of the cheapest metro rides in the world, though it is still more than double the cost of riding the bus, and I spoke with many people on buses who said they would not take the metro because of the cost. The lines of exclusion and inclusion on the metro have much to do with the kinds of spatial relations created between the metro and other parts of the city. The metro is certainly modern in David Harvey’s sense of time-space compression (Harvey 1995).4 The space of the city has contracted as time has speeded up; distances between opposite ends of town have shrunk to a third or even fourth of what they once were. In the process, Delhi’s “hinterlands” are becoming part of an ever-expanding and “mappable” city. There is a new level of abstraction that one experiences as one looks at the city rather than experiencing it on the ground. It allows, what Sunila, a mid-20s commuter from Dwarka described to me as: “Delhi up-down”. I had struck up a conversation with her one afternoon as we were waiting on the platform for a train. She did not talk about the city in this way when she used to ride the bus; then, her route was not direct and not as fast. It was not “Delhi up-down”. Now she goes from Dwarka to Uttam Nagar East where she works, but travels elsewhere on it as well. Anyone who has taken auto rickshaws in Delhi knows that auto drivers are not accustomed to looking at maps and often do not know how to get from one place to another. This is partly because many drivers come from other cities and towns and learn on the job once they arrive in Delhi. But it is also because Delhi is not a map city – people do not imagine it as a city with defined borders and a discernible shape. The metro is changing this, by its very physicality, an edifice that is spreading across the city’s landscape and in some cases creating it anew. And with the naming of each station, it is creating a shorthand for thinking across the city. All of a sudden places like Shadara, Jhandewalan, Dwarka, Rohini, and Rithala have become places that exist as people are seeing those names reproduced on map after map; new outer suburbs emerge and “old” places, such as Karol Bagh, Chawri Bazaar, and Chandni Chowk have become new. Some were always places to go to, but now they have been plotted out in a visual reference that is the metro map. The outer sub-cities, made of resettlement colonies, vast tracts of apartment buildings, schools, restaurants, and malls, meanwhile are forging the city in new directions. The metro is augmenting Delhi’s language of urban expansion comprised of phases, parks, sectors, pockets, apartments, camps, vihars, nagars, settlements, flats, enclaves, and extensions. It is the metro that is now in some sense the city’s master plan, as it demands further densification along its lines. In some cases, the city is being built up and around the metro lines. *Space, Place, Gender* The metro could be viewed as a modern disciplinary institution in that it allows people greater autonomy and freer movement, while it also puts citizens under more surveillance as they learn to subject themselves to new rules. This autonomy and surveillance are both made possible by the kinds of spaces being demarcated and created within the metro trains and at its stations. A new space is a new set of boundaries. The most obvious of these for riders is the entrance to the metro – featuring the security check, ticket booth, and automated entry. These areas are bounded by physical objects: electronic gates and doors, uniformed security guards, metal detectors, stairwells, potted plants, glass dividers, and metal handrails. At the Dwarka Sector 9 station, I notice a sheet of paper posted at the security-curtained area on the side of the metal detector, listing what cannot be brought on to the train: dried blood; human corpse; animal carcasses; any part of human skeleton; manure. I wonder if this has something to do with this station being at the end of the line, almost reaching out to the hinterlands. These items are listed as being not as dangerous, but as “offensive materials”. At Chandni Chowk Station at 3:30 in the afternoon there is always a long line of men waiting to go through the metal detector. It is not that their security search takes any longer, but there are just so many more of them who are going somewhere. I know by now to cut across the line to the “ladies” metal detector where there are never more than a few women waiting in line. I walk through and go behind a small circular curtain to be frisked and “wanded” by another woman in a security guard uniform and neatly braided hair. This curtained space is a replication of many other curtained security areas in many other places, not only airports, but also movie theatres. Still, the metro itself is hardly a “non-place” (non-lieux), Marc Augé’s term for the non-contiguous spaces of airports, hotel rooms, and supermarkets. He calls these interstitial, transient places that lack historical and relational specificity and are examples of a “supermodernity” (Augé 1995). The metro is a space of transport that is recognisable in many other faraway places all over the world. Yet, it is an identity marker, and perhaps maker, for its riders, one that forges new historical and relational connections within the city itself. These connections begin with the spaces within the metro and the new kinds of behaviours they require and encourage. For instance, there are new forms of security and surveillance that are now ubiquitous precisely because there are and will be so many stations, dozens and dozens of them all over the city. There are not only visible cameras watching you at all of these stations (though not inside the trains themselves), but there are signs reminding you that cameras are watching you. To what extent has safety, and what it takes to have it, become a public good? Are people only on their best behaviour when faced with cameras or new technologies they might not fully comprehend? The metro was first heralded as a safe space for women (Batra 2003); women reported that they were not being eve-teased. Now that is starting to change as the trains get more and more crowded during rush hours, and people may be gaining some measure of “invisibility” among the crowds pushing into and out of trains. Similar codes of behaviour can be found on the city buses, but the feel of them is quite different; they are more intimate in a physical sense, the space is more constricted, and people routinely speak to one another, often to cajole, scold, harass, or flirt. The key figure on the bus is the ticket collector. He does not only take money, give out tickets, and return change; he manages the crowd, and with a slap of his hand on the side of the bus he cues the driver on when to start moving. He shouts at people, telling them what to do, and how to behave, admonishing them for “acting like children” or “holding everyone up”. He both surveys and manages the crowd. And at the bus stops other riders give you information about which lines go where and which are good lines; there is a continual sharing of information and advice, as well as collective grief over late buses or non-existent ones. On the metro there is no ticket collector to complain to if something goes wrong or if someone gets out of line, for this is an automated environment. Many were shocked, for instance, when a contracted metro worker was directing people who were boarding a train got his hand stuck in the door as it was closing and was dragged to the next station while clutching to the outside of the train. Passengers on board watched in amazement and horror, but did not know how to hit the emergency bell. A law student, Suresh, told me about his experience of being in the crush of the crowd one day, alongside a young mother carrying a small child.5 They had not made way for her but had pushed her aside. He could not understand this, nor could he do anything to help her, but he ended up getting ensnarled in her bangles and left the train with bruised arms. He then told me that he feels more comfortable when women have seats, even though he knows that they may not always want to sit. The long lines to enter the metro show that men predominate, as they do on the bus. But the city’s buses feel more like male-dominated spaces. There is a kind of gender neutrality on the metro, even though there are many more men, and even though the security is divided on gendered lines. With the arrival last month of a women-only coach on every train, the reaction to it seems to be less about how women are treated on the trains and more about women being able to find a seat amid the crush of people. Some are relieved to have an optional, segregated space for women, while others see it as reinforcing gender stereotypes of women needing extra protection, a step back in what was a new kind of public space for Dilliwalas. A little over a year ago, Vanita, a college lecturer in her mid-50s, told me that riding the metro changed her relationship to the city and made her see herself differently. She said that not knowing how to drive and becoming dependent on a driver – first her husband and then a hired driver – framed her relationship with the city for over 30 years. The idea of going anywhere alone, without the driver, did not cross her mind. It only changed with the rude awakening and painful experience of her husband leaving her and taking the family car with him. She was lost at first, especially since she worked in Pitampura in the north-east of the city, and lived in south Delhi beyond the Outer Ring Road; and then a friend suggested she start taking the metro, even though it required her to take an auto rickshaw until Central Secretariat, almost half the distance. The commute did not make sense at one level, but she did it anyway. “The metro became part of my day-to- day”, she told me. “You have to walk fast, you can’t waddle along. You can get jostled a bit. But within several days, riding it made me a different person. It was a novelty, but it also took my mind off things.” She not only started taking it to the college where she worked, but to Tis Hazari court as well, which happened to be on the same line. By then she was involved in three court cases against her husband and had to make regular trips to Tis Hazari for proceedings in what had become a messy divorce. “I could see it from the train”, she said, “It gave me a different angle on my life to see the court from there, to be getting there by taking the metro”. *The Metro in Hindi Films* The image of the metro as a liberating space has become part of Indian popular culture, even cinematic shorthand for the development of characters. In the movie, Delhi-6 (6 is postal code for Old Delhi), the female lead, played by Sonam Kapoor, is a young Muslim girl who lives with her family in an old haveli. She is trying to forge her own identity, a personal journey that is partly shown through her trips on the metro. As she moves away from her family home and neighbourhood and makes forays into the city, she sheds her salwar-kameez for belly button revealing tight tops. She pulls her hair back with a bandanna and paints her lips red. We then see her at a photographer’s studio creating a portfolio of sassy poses to send to the judges of the television show “Indian Idol”. These scenes are framed by her going into and out of metro stations. In the train, she looks out the window, and we witness her aloneness in this in-between space, but then see her sense of anticipation and defiance as she glides up an escalator into Connaught Place. The metro allows her to get away and feel anonymous in the city, while it also shuttles her back to her family and the old city. This narrative of liberation does not threaten her place in her family, and so, in good family film fashion, she does not change too much. Delhi-6 offers a conventional story of gendered liberation. The more experimental Hindi movie Dev D, by Anurag Kashyap, came out at the same time offering a much edgier portrayal of the city. Abhay Deol’s title character does not always know where he is going or what he aspires to. Seeing him on the metro symbolises the possibility of adventure, unpredictability, and even danger, matching the aimless wandering of his own troubled soul. *Conclusions* On the way to Rithala one day, a large mall comes into view from the train; its faded colours stand out in the otherwise brownish landscape. Once outside the station – the end of the line – cycle rickshaw drivers ferry people between the metro and the mall. They ride up to the entrance of the vast parking lot of the mall, but are not allowed entry beyond this point, where a few security guards are assembled. The cycle rickshaw, with its squeaky metal parts, and the driver in his dirty clothes, are antithetical to the space of the mall, where heavy-set women in salwar-kameez, and young boys and girls in jeans, come to stroll. The shops are ice-cold. And there might be more shop assistants than customers. The mall is adjacent to an “Adventureland” amusement park, and at first it is hard to tell where the mall ends and the park begins. Then a narrow pedestrian bridge over a small fake lake comes into view. Small food stalls sell popcorn and “authentic” chaat. Mechanical rides rise up towards the horizon. On the mall side, amid one of the concrete concourses, there is an island of short green grass, a lawn not more than three feet by five feet, demarcated by a raised concrete curb. An old man – the mali – sits crouched there, rubbing dirt between his fingers as he tends to the sprouts. When I am ready to leave the mall, I walk the length of the parking lot to the outer entrance, past the security guards to the waiting cycle rickshaw drivers. From here there is a direct view to the metro, a concrete edifice extending across the skyline. Between the mall and the metro lies a large construction site. A cycle rickshaw driver tells me, with a mixture of awe and disdain, that the half-made structure in front of us is to be a five-star hotel. Some of these hotels as well as IT parks are owned and being built by the DMRC itself, which has to diversify in order to maintain its own fiscal sustainability. Meanwhile, this new India – the spaces of consumption of both goods and experience – are for the moneyed classes, professionals, and aspirers. It is true that metro stations have created desirable routes for cycle rickshaws, and that drivers sometimes make a few rupees more per kilometre than they are used to as they ply back and forth from the metro to the mall. And it turns out they too are part of Delhi’s Master Plan for 2021, page 149 of the “Reader Friendly” version; it points out that unlike other forms of transport, they are non-polluting. But ultimately the place of cycle rickshaw drivers is only being reinscribed on the new urban landscape as they encircle more spaces to which they are not allowed entry. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Nov 25 00:10:27 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 00:10:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Nearly 59, 000 Kashmiri Pandit families migrated from Valley' Message-ID: 'Nearly 59,000 Kashmiri Pandit families migrated from Valley'*PTI New Delhi:* The government on Wednesday said nearly 59,000 Kashmiri Pandit families are reported to have migrated from the Valley following the outbreak of militancy in the 1989-90. "Due to on set of militancy in 1989-90, 58,697 families are reported to have migrated from the Valley and registered as migrants," Minister of State for Home Affairs Ajay Maken told Rajya Sabha in a written reply today. They have settled in Jammu (38119 families), Delhi (19338 families) and other states (1240 families), Maken said. "In order to mitigate the hardship faced by the Kashmiri migrants, a cash relief at Rs 1250 per head per month subject to maximum of Rs 5000 per family per month is being provided to eligible families. This scale is effective from July 2009," he said. For facilitating the return of migrants to the Valley, a comprehensive package of Rs 1618.40 crore was announced in 2008 which provides for various provisions for rehabilitating them, he said. Maken also gave out the data on status of temples in the Valley saying out of the total 430 temples that existed before migration, 260 are intact, 170 damaged and 90 were renovated. In a separate reply to a question on people with refugee status in Jammu region, Maken said "the number of persons migrated from West Pakistan and settled in Jammu region at present, is approximately 1.5 lakhs." "In order to mitigate their problems, the Prime Minister announced a package for J and K on April 25, 2010. The package, inter-alia, provides for concessions to the children and grand children of West Pakistan refugees settled in Jammu and Kashmir in the matter of admission in the technical education institutions approved by the AICTE, bank loan facilities without collateral guarantees provision of vocational training under skill development initiatives," he said in his reply in Rajya Sabha. "The West Pakistan refugees are citizens of India and are allowed to exercise their right to franchise in the Parliamentary elections. In so far as the issue of granting them State Subject status is concerned, the state government has not been able to meet their demand as it has legal implications," Maken said. -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From rohitrellan at aol.in Thu Nov 25 07:34:57 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:04:57 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Sankalp - Theatre Festival on Dec 3rd-5th 2010, Ahmedabad In-Reply-To: <8CD5A5B912EAE0C-17B8-CD10@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD5A5B912EAE0C-17B8-CD10@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD5A5C4B391D4C-17B8-CDF4@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> Sankalp – the theatre society at MICA provides the means for exploring the boundaries of communication through theatre and other performance media. Revived in 2000 by two theatre-enthusiast MICAns, Sankalp has gone from being a ‘theatre society’ to becoming a way of life at MICA.    Apart from regular in-house plays, Sankalp stages one grand production every year for the paying public in Ahmedabad and other cities. This final production is staged at Natarani amphitheatre, an heirloom of the renowned Sarabhai family, presently run by Mallika Sarabhai. In a decade of it’s existence, renowned plays such as Girish Karnad’s ‘Tuglaq’, ‘Hayavadana’, ‘Sacrifice’, Vijay Tendulkar’s ‘Encounter in Umbugland’, Dharmavir Bharti’s ‘Suraj Ka Satwan Ghoda’ and Woody Allen’s ‘Death’ have been performed at this amphitheatre by Sankalp.    The final show expresses a MICAns affection for the culture and heritage of the local city of Ahmedabad. It is humbling to welcome theatre critics who have not missed a single Sankalp production till date!    In it’s 11th year now, Sankalp 2010 will open it’s doors to welcome theatre groups to become a part of this uniquely MICAn journey, through workshops and competitions. Sankalp 2010 promises to be much more than a commercial production, as it takes the form of a theatre extravaganza hosting a lot more plays on campus and around the city.    Sankalp – the theatre society at MICA provides the means for exploring the boundaries of communication through theatre and other performance media. Revived in 2000 by two theatre-enthusiast MICAns, Sankalp has gone from being a ‘theatre society’ to becoming a way of life at MICA.Apart from regular in-house plays, Sankalp stages one grand production every year for the paying public in Ahmedabad and other cities. This final production is staged at Natarani amphitheatre, an heirloom of the renowned Sarabhai family, presently run by Mallika Sarabhai. In a decade of it’s existence, renowned plays such as Girish Karnad’s ‘Tuglaq’, ‘Hayavadana’, ‘Sacrifice’, Vijay Tendulkar’s ‘Encounter in Umbugland’, Dharmavir Bharti’s ‘Suraj Ka Satwan Ghoda’ and Woody Allen’s ‘Death’ have been performed at this amphitheatre by Sankalp.The final show expresses a MICAns affection for the culture and heritage of the local city of Ahmedabad. It is humbling to welcome theatre critics who have not missed a single Sankalp production till date! In it’s 11th year now, Sankalp 2010 will open it’s doors to welcome theatre groups to become a part of this uniquely MICAn journey, through workshops and competitions. Sankalp 2010 promises to be much more than a commercial production, as it takes the form of a theatre extravaganza hosting a lot more plays on campus and around the city.      For more details Log on to http://sankalp-mica.net/    Contact : sankalp at micamail.in    Aashish Sharma | 0928-905-0796  Ashish Gupta | 0966-254-8599  From info at fondation-langlois.org Thu Nov 25 21:36:27 2010 From: info at fondation-langlois.org (Fondation Daniel Langlois) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:06:27 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] News from the Daniel Langlois Foundation Message-ID: <771f4234f2dfed9998d290b00017ae36@fondation-langlois.org> Very Nervous System by David Rokeby, his landmark interactive sound installation, is shown at the Carleton University Art Gallery in Ottawa (Ontario) from November 22, 2010 to January 30, 2011: http://cuag.carleton.ca/ Very Nervous System (VNS) is a seminal work in the history of media art, with a lifespan of more than 28 years. Its celebrity and longevity pose some particularly interesting questions about documentation and contextualisation of media artworks over time and through change. At the occasion of its exhibition at the Carleton University Art Gallery, we invite you to browse a documentary collection about Rokeby's installation which was produced by Lizzie Muller and Caitlin Jones at the 2009 edition of Ars Electronica in Linz (Austria). Also, after experimenting with the work in Ottawa, you can contribute to this collection by posting comments and documents, and thus sharing your experience with the community: http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?NumPage=2186 From santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 25 22:45:03 2010 From: santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com (santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 12:15:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Reader-list] Message from santhosh hrishikesh Message-ID: <20101125171503.9100A7C13F@www.ipetitions.com> Hello, santhosh hrishikesh would like you to visit the following online campaign, by iPetitions: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/banendosulfan/ Message: Join Anti Endosulfan Campaign initiated by Malayalanatu comunity _________________________________________________ Create a petition, sign a petition: At http://www.ipetitions.com, your voice counts. From jeebesh at sarai.net Fri Nov 26 13:35:25 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:35:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Unique facility, or recipe for trouble? Message-ID: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article911055.ece?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cef5520c6f02591,0 A very well thought article by Jean Dreze on UID. warmly jeebesh From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Nov 26 12:04:29 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:04:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in the Hindu Message-ID: <79B3ED95-A179-4EF7-BC3D-09A083EAFF52@sarai.net> Dear all, Please find below a really excellent article by Jean Dreze in The Hindu on the UID scheme, which clearly and lucidly argues why the building of the database state in India is a very bad idea and a recipe for authoritarianism. Hope that this can provoke a debate on the http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article911055.ece? sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cef25dca9aa0aed%2C0 best. Shuddha Unique facility, or recipe for trouble? Jean Drèze Opinion/Op Ed, The Hindu, November 25, 2010 Many questions remain about the Unique Identity Number system that is being rolled out by the Central government. It is quite likely that a few weeks from now someone will be knocking at your doors and asking for your fingerprints. If you agree, your fingerprints will enter a national database, along with personal characteristics (age, sex, occupation, and so on) that have already been collected from you, unless you were missed in the “Census household listing” earlier this year. The purpose of this exercise is to build the National Population Register (NPR). In due course, your UID (Unique Identity Number, or “Aadhaar”) will be added to it. This will make it possible to link the NPR with other Aadhaar-enabled databases, from tax returns to bank records and SIM (subscriber identity module) registers. This includes the Home Ministry's National Intelligence Grid (NATGRID), smoothly linking 21 national databases. For the intelligence agencies, this will be a dream-come-true. Imagine, everyone's fingerprints at the click of a mouse, that too with demographic information and all the rest. Should any suspicious person book a flight, or use a cybercafé, or any of the services that will soon require an Aadhaar number, she will be on their radar. If, say, Arundhati Roy makes another trip to Dantewada, she will be picked up on arrival like a ripe plum. Fantastic! ‘A half-truth' So, when the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) tells us that the UID data (the “Central Identities Data Repository”) will be safe and confidential, it is a half-truth. The confidentiality of the Repository itself is not a minor issue, considering that UIDAI can authorise “any entity” to maintain it, and that it can be accessed not only by intelligence agencies but also by any Ministry. But more important, the UID will help integrate vast amounts of personal data, that are available to government agencies with few restrictions. Confidentiality is not the only half-truth propagated by UIDAI. Another one is that Aadhaar is not compulsory — it is just a voluntary “facility.” UIDAI's concept note stresses that “enrolment will not be mandated.” But there is a catch: “... benefits and services that are linked to the UID will ensure demand for the number.” This is like selling bottled water in a village after poisoning the well, and claiming that people are buying water voluntarily. The next sentence is also ominous: “This will not, however, preclude governments or Registrars from mandating enrolment.” That UID is, in effect, going to be compulsory is clear from many other documents. For instance, the Planning Commission's proposal for the National Food Security Act argues for “mandatory use of UID numbers which are expected to become operational by the end of 2010” (note the optimistic time-frame). No UID, no food. Similarly, UIDAI's concept note on the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA) assumes that “each citizen needs to provide his UID before claiming employment.” Thus, Aadhaar will also be a condition for the right to work — so much for its voluntary nature. Now, if the UID is compulsory, then everyone should have a right to free, convenient and reliable enrolment. The enrolment process, however, is all set to be a hit-or-miss affair, with no guarantee of timely and hassle-free inclusion. UIDAI hopes to enrol 600 million people in the next four years. That is about half of India's population in the next four years. What about the other half? Nor is there any guarantee of reliability. Anyone familiar with the way things work in rural India would expect the UID database to be full of errors. There is a sobering lesson here from the Below Poverty Line (BPL) Census. A recent World Bank study found rampant anomalies in the BPL list: “A common problem was erroneous information entered for household members. In one district of Rajasthan, more than 50 per cent of the household members were listed as sisters-in-law.” Will the UID database be more reliable? Don't bet on it. And it is not clear how the errors will be corrected as and when they emerge. Under the proposed National Identification Authority of India Bill (“NIDAI Bill”), if someone finds that her “identity information” is wrong, she is supposed to “request the Authority” to correct it, upon which the Authority “may, if it is satisfied, make such alteration as may be required.” There is a legal obligation to alert the Authority, but no right to correction. The Aadhaar juggernaut is rolling on regardless (and without any legal safeguards in place), fuelled by mesmerising claims about the social applications of UID. A prime example is UID's invasion of the NREGA. NREGA workers are barely recovering from the chaotic rush to payments of wages through banks. Aadhaar is likely to be the next ordeal. The local administration is going to be hijacked by enrolment drives. NREGA works or payments will come to a standstill where workers are waiting for their Aadhaar number. Others will be the victims of unreliable technology, inadequate information technology facilities, or data errors. And for what? Gradual, people-friendly introduction of innovative technologies would serve the NREGA better than the UID tamasha. The real game plan, for social policy, seems to be a massive transition to “conditional cash transfers” (CCTs). There is more than a hint of this “revolutionary” plan in Nandan Nilekani's book, Imagining India. Since then, CCTs have become the rage in policy circles. A recent Planning Commission document argues that successful CCTs require “a biometric identification system,” now made possible by “the initiation of a Unique Identification System (UID) for the entire population …” The same document recommends a string of mega CCTs, including cash transfers to replace the Public Distribution System. If the backroom boys have their way, India's public services as we know them will soon be history, and every citizen will just have a Smart Card — food stamps, health insurance, school vouchers, conditional maternity entitlements and all that rolled into one. This approach may or may not work (that is incidental), but business at least will prosper. As the Wall Street Journal says about the Rashtriya Swasthya Bhima Yojana (which is a pioneering CCT project, for health insurance), “the plan presents a way for insurance companies to market themselves and develop brand awareness.” The danger The biggest danger of UID, however, lies in a restriction of civil liberties. As one observer aptly put it, Aadhaar is creating “the infrastructure of authoritarianism” — an unprecedented degree of state surveillance (and potential control) of citizens. This infrastructure may or may not be used for sinister designs. But can we take a chance, in a country where state agencies have such an awful record of arbitrariness, brutality and impunity? In fact, I suspect that the drive towards permanent state surveillance of all residents has already begun. UIDAI is no Big Brother, but could others be on the job? Take for instance Captain Raghu Raman (of the Mahindra Special Services Group), who is quietly building NATGRID on behalf of the Home Ministry. His columns in the business media make for chilling reading. Captain Raman believes that growing inequality is a “powder keg waiting for a spark,” and advocates corporate takeover of internal security (including a “private territorial army”), to enable the “commercial czars” to “protect their empires.” The Maoists sound like choir boys in comparison. There are equally troubling questions about the “NIDAI Bill,” starting with why it was drafted by UIDAI itself. Not surprisingly, the draft Bill gives enormous powers to UIDAI's successor, NIDAI — and with minimal safeguards. To illustrate, the Bill empowers NIDAI to decide the biometric and demographic information required for an Aadhaar number (Section 23); “specify the usage and applicability of the Aadhaar number for delivery of various benefits and services” (Section 23); authorise whoever it wishes to “maintain the Central Identities Data Repository” (Section 7) or even to exercise any of its own “powers and functions” (Section 51); and dictate all the relevant “regulations” (Section 54). Ordinary citizens, for their part, are powerless: they have no right to a UID number except on NIDAI's terms, no right to correction of inaccurate data, and — last but not least — no specific means to redress grievances. In fact, believe it or not, the Bill states (in Section 46) that “no court shall take cognisance of any offence punishable under this Act” except based on a complaint authorised by NIDAI. So, is UID a facility or a calamity? It depends for whom. For the intelligence agencies, bank managers, the corporate sector, and NIDAI, it will be a facility and a blessing. For ordinary citizens, especially the poor and marginalised, it could well be a calamity. (The author is Visiting Professor at the Department of Economics, University of Allahabad and Member of the National Advisory Council.) Shuddhabrata Sengupta From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Nov 26 16:02:18 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:32:18 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?VideoChannel=3A_Family_Affairs_2_-_f?= =?iso-8859-1?q?eature_of_November_2010?= Message-ID: <20101126113218.DC80328.C7D133CD@192.168.0.3> VideoChannel Cologne - the international platform for videoart proudly presents --> Feature of the Month November 2010 Family Affairs 2 - realised in two parts "Father" & "Mother, father. brothers & sisters" "Father" includes videos by following 12 artists Antonio Alvarado (Spain) - Zack Bent (USA)- Yin-Ling Chen (Taiwan) Virginia Colwell (USA) - Lindsay Foster (USA) - Constantin Hartenstein (Germany) Shahar Marcus (Israel)- Antti Savela (Sweden) - Chris Stockbridge (UK) Marc Thele (Germany) - Anders Weberg (Sweden) - Zellner Bros. (USA) "Mother, father, brothers and sisters" includes videos by following 12 artists Helga Bothe (D) - Sara Bremen (USA) - Janet Cook-Rutnik (VI) Ren Cummings (USA) - Michael Doocey (USA) - Gratuitous Art Films (USA) - Richard Jochum (A) - Tina Jokitalo (FI) - Radhamohini Prasad (IN) Robby Rackleff (USA) - Sivan Sebbag (Israel) - Péter Vadócz (HU) Two years ago, "Family Affairs" started with "Mother" as the fundamental part of a family. The current selections spotlight the position and role of the father within the family, how the artists experience, perceive and value the family as an integral structure. Here is direct access online http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=1209 ------------------------------------------- VideoChannel Cologne international platform for videoart http://videochannel.newmediafest.org /// partner of NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org /// powered by artvideoKOELN ~ the initiative "art & moving images" ~ http://video.mediaartcologne.org videochannel (at) newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------ From patrice at xs4all.nl Fri Nov 26 16:54:37 2010 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:24:37 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Shamsher Chowdhury: In search of truth (Financial Express, Dhaka) Message-ID: <15f9f8000b6d2b9a0764c70f90d434b7.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> In search of truth Shamsher Chowdhury Since the beginning of the modern-day civilization one of the most frequently made statements by politicians and civil society members alike has been, "Truth shall prevail". But to be truthful, for decades now, truth has been a major victim in all societies of the East and the West, including that of Bangladesh. But in recent years the lone superpower exceeded them all. Recall the extensive lies and twisting of facts that it resorted to prior to the invasion of Iraq. One might, however, say now that the truth has finally prevailed with the exposition of the facts from the originally recorded US files on Iraq by Wikileaks, an international media agency. In Bangladesh, too, in the past few years or so, truth has been victimized in all conceivable ways. Distortion of truth even at the state level has become a regular practice. A large section of our traders and members of the business community are either resorting to deception or withholding the truth. Traders are either hiding the truth or indulging in blatant lies. Media too is often engaged in toying and tossing with truth, politicians are routinely using and abusing the truth for their partisan and selfish gains. Rulers are feeding the people with all kinds of misinformation; they are often engaged in turning a truth into a lie or a lie into a truth. To be truthful, we shall no longer see or experience truth the way our forefathers taught us. It appears that lies have become endemic in all spheres of our lives. Yet we should continue with our struggle to give truth a "chance". Admittedly, truth in totality can never be restored but certainly can be institutionalized to a great extent through an effective and committed judiciary and revamping of other cardinal institutions of the state. In this business of dealing with the truth the media is one of the key sources for the public. Here too truth seems to grove in the dark. Today pick up as many as five or six leading dailies of the country, go through them word by word yet you are far from the truth. In this, however, both parties are to blame, the authorities that regulate the media and the owners including the respective editors. One of the major problems in protecting and advancing truth is that even the traditional defenders and the custodians of truth have chosen the easy way-out by keeping quiet when an injustice is committed or a blatant lie is told. William Hamilton, a Scottish philosopher once said, "Truth like a torch, the more it is shook it shines:" Our march for truth, therefore, must never cease. Sometimes there may emerge a compulsive need to tell a truth even if it sends one to the gallows. There is a popular saying, ""Charity begins at home". Let us inculcate this culture of indulging in truth right from the family level. Let the parents speak the truth to their offspring and teach them the value and essence of truth right from their childhood. Also spread it amongst all good men and women across the country, irrespective of their caste, creed or colour, no matter how hard or tedious a job it may be. Despite the fact that today the idea of truth itself is considered irrelevant, we must not forget that it not only has a universal appeal but also is enduring at all times and under all circumstances. Truth is as enduring as birth, death and life itself. People who believe in any of these eventualities cannot be too far from truth. But here in this country, our political gurus or those entrusted with the management of the state continue to distort truth in all conceivable ways. It is high time we woke up to the call of truth. Our salvation lies in holding on to truth in all spheres of our life. It is high time for us to decide which path we should follow -- one that is bumpy and hard that leads us to "truth" or one that is full of lies and deception and easy to trudge along. While the first will lead us to truth and ensure a life of dignity, honour and humility, the second may for a while help us to gain pecuniary gains. The choice is ours to make. E-mail: chowdhury.shamsher at yahoo.com Everything about Wikileaks: http://wlcentral.org/node http://paper.li/tag/wikileaks From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sat Nov 27 15:42:17 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 02:12:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Police_present_=E2=80=98Pak_militant?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99_before_media?= Message-ID: <443458.72497.qm@web120220.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> " ...... beseeching help from the villagers.  “Nobody helped me. I knew Allah has brought me from the death trap. He wants me to live. Later a boy taking pity on me took me to hospital,” he said. “I talked to many people there. They said there was no need for armed struggle.”   “I had come for Jihad. Now I am of the opinion there is no need of that,” he added.   He said now the main training centres of Lashkar-e-Toiba were steadily becoming functional."     ............. aalok aima   http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2010/Nov/27/police-present-pak-militant-before-media-45.asp   Police present ‘Pak militant’ before media ‘No need for armed struggle’ WASIM KHALID   Srinagar Nov 26: Saleem Rahmani, 22, who police claimed to be Pakistani militant affiliated with Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), said it was long arduous journey to infiltrate into this side of Line of Control (LOC).  Police on Friday presented Rahmani before the media at Police Control Room here to narrate his odyssey. Wearing a light khaki jacket over a wrinkled Khan suit, Rahmani settled comfortably on the chair without having a flit of worry on his face.  “My name is Muhammad Saleem Rahmani. I belong to Nawabshah, Sindh area of Pakistan,” he said, while facing volley of questions from the newsmen. “I have no regrets that I was arrested. Or even I would not have minded if I would have got killed or beaten”. He said he infiltrated through Lolab area, crossed streams, and groped his way through forests during night.  “We were eight people,” Rahmani said. “Our first face off with army was in Lolab. Three got martyred there. From Lolab we moved through Bandipore area to reach into Kangan.”  He said in the forested Kangan area of Ganderbal, their group was again waylaid by army during the night.  “Three of my friends got killed there. I saw one of my friends getting shot. He told me I had received bullet in abdomen. I told him be there and recite Kalima,” he said. “I too got injured in the gunfight. But I was able to reach the villages located on the fringes of forested hill”.  Unaware of other group members, Rahmani said now beseeching help from the villagers.  “Nobody helped me. I knew Allah has brought me from the death trap. He wants me to live. Later a boy taking pity on me took me to hospital,” he said. “I talked to many people there. They said there was no need for armed struggle.”  “I had come for Jihad. Now I am of the opinion there is no need of that,” he added.  For some time the cameramen shoved of each other to get his close-up shot, but he stood calm. “I do not know about Mumbai attacks. But after that, Pakistan government went on a large scale crackdown on Jama’at. They sealed the main training centres, even the district ones. I was trained in a temporary make shift camp established in Muzzafrabad before I crossed the border”. He said now the main training centres of Lashkar-e-Toiba were steadily becoming functional. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 27 17:04:26 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 03:34:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Letter to Deoband from Bharatiya Muslim Mahila Andolan Message-ID: <805367.17123.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Although this appeal purports to raise 5 questions, but the text doesn't make it clear which are the five questions. Nevertheless, it should be supported also by men. ----------------------------- Open Letter to Darul Uloom Deoband from Bharatiya Muslim Mahila Andolan Bharatiya Muslim Mahila Andolan We the activists of Bharatiya Muslim Mahila Andolan condemn the fatwa issued by Darul Ifta, Fatwa department of Sunni Islamic seminary, Darul Uloom Deoband stating that divorce pronounced by the husband on phone is valid even if the wife has not heard it due to network problems. It says that ‘for talaak to take place it is not necessary that wife should hear it or witnesses are present.’ In October this year they also ruled that talaak pronounced in jest is also valid. We demand an answer from all those mullas, muftis and qazis who have nothing better to do than pass fatwas which ruin the lives of so many women. We ask you 5 questions and we demand an answer to all of them: Who are you and what is your authority in passing fatwas? In a secular democracy like India and in a religion that denounces clergy ship, from where do you get the authority to pass dictates which are unConstitutional and unIslamic? What is the source of illogical, stupid and laughter-evoking fatwas like women should not be riding bicycles, women should not talk loudly, they should not work in male company and without a veil, that women cannot be a judge and that she cannot be talking to her fiancé before marriage and many other much much more ridiculous rulings? Don’t you think twice before you defile a rational, progressive and liberal religion like Islam? Don’t you have an iota of a sense of responsibility? A Muslim man today feels empowered and emboldened when irresponsible muftis and qazis send letters and notices on his behalf to his unsuspecting wife abruptly terminating her marriage. Divorcing ones wife by letters, emails, SMSs is a recurring phenomenon which gives no opportunity to a harried wife to even know what went wrong where and how. Instead of dissuading men from resorting to this unIslamic method of divorce, the qazis are actually providing an easy conduit to men who think of marriage as some joke and his wife to be some piece of furniture to be discarded at his will. What do you feel when you read the verse no. 4:35 which insists on arbitration before divorce? Do you suffer from selective amnesia and forget all those verses which are just and fair to women? Is there no control over the qazis and maulana? Are they free to speak nonsense and defile the religion and hurt the dignity of Muslim women? You have given a bad name to Islam. Give us one good reason why Muslim women should not approach the police station and put these irresponsible mullas behind bars? When practically all Islamic/Muslim countries have codified the family law, why is the Darul Uloom not taking an initiative to call for codification of Muslim personal law in India? You have to tell us your views on codification. We challenge the Darul Uloom Deoband to be answerable to Muslim women on the above and many more such pressing issues. We urge you to stop taking the community and Muslim women for granted. URL: http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamIslamicIdeology_1.aspx?ArticleID=3730 From aliens at dataone.in Sat Nov 27 17:42:25 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin Trivedi) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:42:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in the Hindu In-Reply-To: <79B3ED95-A179-4EF7-BC3D-09A083EAFF52@sarai.net> References: <79B3ED95-A179-4EF7-BC3D-09A083EAFF52@sarai.net> Message-ID: <003a01cb8e2c$5af56d10$10e04730$@in> Main intention of UID is to keep watch on criminals and terrorist. Once the data is maintained it will be very easy task to keep watch on such anti national elements. I don't understand why worry about its confidentiality. When election data is an open document and nobody objects to it than why for UID. UID will be worrisome for those involved in antinational activity. However, it should be made compulsory with fingerprints than only it will serve its purpose, else it's of no use. Thanks Bipin Trivedi -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Shuddhabrata Sengupta Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:04 PM To: reader-list list Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in the Hindu Dear all, Please find below a really excellent article by Jean Dreze in The Hindu on the UID scheme, which clearly and lucidly argues why the building of the database state in India is a very bad idea and a recipe for authoritarianism. Hope that this can provoke a debate on the http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article911055.ece? sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cef25dca9aa0aed%2C0 best. Shuddha Unique facility, or recipe for trouble? Jean Drèze Opinion/Op Ed, The Hindu, November 25, 2010 Many questions remain about the Unique Identity Number system that is being rolled out by the Central government. It is quite likely that a few weeks from now someone will be knocking at your doors and asking for your fingerprints. If you agree, your fingerprints will enter a national database, along with personal characteristics (age, sex, occupation, and so on) that have already been collected from you, unless you were missed in the “Census household listing” earlier this year. The purpose of this exercise is to build the National Population Register (NPR). In due course, your UID (Unique Identity Number, or “Aadhaar”) will be added to it. This will make it possible to link the NPR with other Aadhaar-enabled databases, from tax returns to bank records and SIM (subscriber identity module) registers. This includes the Home Ministry's National Intelligence Grid (NATGRID), smoothly linking 21 national databases. For the intelligence agencies, this will be a dream-come-true. Imagine, everyone's fingerprints at the click of a mouse, that too with demographic information and all the rest. Should any suspicious person book a flight, or use a cybercafé, or any of the services that will soon require an Aadhaar number, she will be on their radar. If, say, Arundhati Roy makes another trip to Dantewada, she will be picked up on arrival like a ripe plum. Fantastic! ‘A half-truth' So, when the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) tells us that the UID data (the “Central Identities Data Repository”) will be safe and confidential, it is a half-truth. The confidentiality of the Repository itself is not a minor issue, considering that UIDAI can authorise “any entity” to maintain it, and that it can be accessed not only by intelligence agencies but also by any Ministry. But more important, the UID will help integrate vast amounts of personal data, that are available to government agencies with few restrictions. Confidentiality is not the only half-truth propagated by UIDAI. Another one is that Aadhaar is not compulsory — it is just a voluntary “facility.” UIDAI's concept note stresses that “enrolment will not be mandated.” But there is a catch: “... benefits and services that are linked to the UID will ensure demand for the number.” This is like selling bottled water in a village after poisoning the well, and claiming that people are buying water voluntarily. The next sentence is also ominous: “This will not, however, preclude governments or Registrars from mandating enrolment.” That UID is, in effect, going to be compulsory is clear from many other documents. For instance, the Planning Commission's proposal for the National Food Security Act argues for “mandatory use of UID numbers which are expected to become operational by the end of 2010” (note the optimistic time-frame). No UID, no food. Similarly, UIDAI's concept note on the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA) assumes that “each citizen needs to provide his UID before claiming employment.” Thus, Aadhaar will also be a condition for the right to work — so much for its voluntary nature. Now, if the UID is compulsory, then everyone should have a right to free, convenient and reliable enrolment. The enrolment process, however, is all set to be a hit-or-miss affair, with no guarantee of timely and hassle-free inclusion. UIDAI hopes to enrol 600 million people in the next four years. That is about half of India's population in the next four years. What about the other half? Nor is there any guarantee of reliability. Anyone familiar with the way things work in rural India would expect the UID database to be full of errors. There is a sobering lesson here from the Below Poverty Line (BPL) Census. A recent World Bank study found rampant anomalies in the BPL list: “A common problem was erroneous information entered for household members. In one district of Rajasthan, more than 50 per cent of the household members were listed as sisters-in-law.” Will the UID database be more reliable? Don't bet on it. And it is not clear how the errors will be corrected as and when they emerge. Under the proposed National Identification Authority of India Bill (“NIDAI Bill”), if someone finds that her “identity information” is wrong, she is supposed to “request the Authority” to correct it, upon which the Authority “may, if it is satisfied, make such alteration as may be required.” There is a legal obligation to alert the Authority, but no right to correction. The Aadhaar juggernaut is rolling on regardless (and without any legal safeguards in place), fuelled by mesmerising claims about the social applications of UID. A prime example is UID's invasion of the NREGA. NREGA workers are barely recovering from the chaotic rush to payments of wages through banks. Aadhaar is likely to be the next ordeal. The local administration is going to be hijacked by enrolment drives. NREGA works or payments will come to a standstill where workers are waiting for their Aadhaar number. Others will be the victims of unreliable technology, inadequate information technology facilities, or data errors. And for what? Gradual, people-friendly introduction of innovative technologies would serve the NREGA better than the UID tamasha. The real game plan, for social policy, seems to be a massive transition to “conditional cash transfers” (CCTs). There is more than a hint of this “revolutionary” plan in Nandan Nilekani's book, Imagining India. Since then, CCTs have become the rage in policy circles. A recent Planning Commission document argues that successful CCTs require “a biometric identification system,” now made possible by “the initiation of a Unique Identification System (UID) for the entire population …” The same document recommends a string of mega CCTs, including cash transfers to replace the Public Distribution System. If the backroom boys have their way, India's public services as we know them will soon be history, and every citizen will just have a Smart Card — food stamps, health insurance, school vouchers, conditional maternity entitlements and all that rolled into one. This approach may or may not work (that is incidental), but business at least will prosper. As the Wall Street Journal says about the Rashtriya Swasthya Bhima Yojana (which is a pioneering CCT project, for health insurance), “the plan presents a way for insurance companies to market themselves and develop brand awareness.” The danger The biggest danger of UID, however, lies in a restriction of civil liberties. As one observer aptly put it, Aadhaar is creating “the infrastructure of authoritarianism” — an unprecedented degree of state surveillance (and potential control) of citizens. This infrastructure may or may not be used for sinister designs. But can we take a chance, in a country where state agencies have such an awful record of arbitrariness, brutality and impunity? In fact, I suspect that the drive towards permanent state surveillance of all residents has already begun. UIDAI is no Big Brother, but could others be on the job? Take for instance Captain Raghu Raman (of the Mahindra Special Services Group), who is quietly building NATGRID on behalf of the Home Ministry. His columns in the business media make for chilling reading. Captain Raman believes that growing inequality is a “powder keg waiting for a spark,” and advocates corporate takeover of internal security (including a “private territorial army”), to enable the “commercial czars” to “protect their empires.” The Maoists sound like choir boys in comparison. There are equally troubling questions about the “NIDAI Bill,” starting with why it was drafted by UIDAI itself. Not surprisingly, the draft Bill gives enormous powers to UIDAI's successor, NIDAI — and with minimal safeguards. To illustrate, the Bill empowers NIDAI to decide the biometric and demographic information required for an Aadhaar number (Section 23); “specify the usage and applicability of the Aadhaar number for delivery of various benefits and services” (Section 23); authorise whoever it wishes to “maintain the Central Identities Data Repository” (Section 7) or even to exercise any of its own “powers and functions” (Section 51); and dictate all the relevant “regulations” (Section 54). Ordinary citizens, for their part, are powerless: they have no right to a UID number except on NIDAI's terms, no right to correction of inaccurate data, and — last but not least — no specific means to redress grievances. In fact, believe it or not, the Bill states (in Section 46) that “no court shall take cognisance of any offence punishable under this Act” except based on a complaint authorised by NIDAI. So, is UID a facility or a calamity? It depends for whom. For the intelligence agencies, bank managers, the corporate sector, and NIDAI, it will be a facility and a blessing. For ordinary citizens, especially the poor and marginalised, it could well be a calamity. (The author is Visiting Professor at the Department of Economics, University of Allahabad and Member of the National Advisory Council.) Shuddhabrata Sengupta _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From patrice at xs4all.nl Sat Nov 27 18:05:57 2010 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:35:57 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in the Hindu In-Reply-To: <003a01cb8e2c$5af56d10$10e04730$@in> References: <79B3ED95-A179-4EF7-BC3D-09A083EAFF52@sarai.net> <003a01cb8e2c$5af56d10$10e04730$@in> Message-ID: Methink RFID_tagging the whole Indian population is a much better idea! Preferably with a 'destroy' remote command device attached. Then finally 'gharib hatao' (*) policies can be effectively implemented! (*) don't underestimate my Hindi... > Main intention of UID is to keep watch on criminals and terrorist. Once > the data is maintained it will be very easy task to keep watch on such > anti national elements. I don't understand why worry about its > confidentiality. When election data is an open document and nobody objects > to it than why for UID. UID will be worrisome for those involved in > antinational activity. > > However, it should be made compulsory with fingerprints than only it will > serve its purpose, else it's of no use. > > Thanks > Bipin Trivedi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:04 PM > To: reader-list list > Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in > the Hindu > > Dear all, > > Please find below a really excellent article by Jean Dreze in The > Hindu on the UID scheme, which clearly and lucidly argues why the > building of the database state in India is a very bad idea and a > recipe for authoritarianism. Hope that this can provoke a debate on the > > http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article911055.ece? > sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cef25dca9aa0aed%2C0 > > best. > > Shuddha > > Unique facility, or recipe for trouble? > > Jean Drèze > > Opinion/Op Ed, The Hindu, November 25, 2010 > Many questions remain about the Unique Identity Number system that is > being rolled out by the Central government. > > It is quite likely that a few weeks from now someone will be knocking > at your doors and asking for your fingerprints. If you agree, your > fingerprints will enter a national database, along with personal > characteristics (age, sex, occupation, and so on) that have already > been collected from you, unless you were missed in the “Census > household listing” earlier this year. > > The purpose of this exercise is to build the National Population > Register (NPR). In due course, your UID (Unique Identity Number, or > “Aadhaar”) will be added to it. This will make it possible to link > the NPR with other Aadhaar-enabled databases, from tax returns to > bank records and SIM (subscriber identity module) registers. This > includes the Home Ministry's National Intelligence Grid (NATGRID), > smoothly linking 21 national databases. > > For the intelligence agencies, this will be a dream-come-true. > Imagine, everyone's fingerprints at the click of a mouse, that too > with demographic information and all the rest. Should any suspicious > person book a flight, or use a cybercafé, or any of the services that > will soon require an Aadhaar number, she will be on their radar. If, > say, Arundhati Roy makes another trip to Dantewada, she will be > picked up on arrival like a ripe plum. Fantastic! > > ‘A half-truth' > > So, when the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) tells > us that the UID data (the “Central Identities Data Repository”) will > be safe and confidential, it is a half-truth. The confidentiality of > the Repository itself is not a minor issue, considering that UIDAI > can authorise “any entity” to maintain it, and that it can be > accessed not only by intelligence agencies but also by any Ministry. > But more important, the UID will help integrate vast amounts of > personal data, that are available to government agencies with few > restrictions. > > Confidentiality is not the only half-truth propagated by UIDAI. > Another one is that Aadhaar is not compulsory — it is just a > voluntary “facility.” UIDAI's concept note stresses that “enrolment > will not be mandated.” But there is a catch: “... benefits and > services that are linked to the UID will ensure demand for the > number.” This is like selling bottled water in a village after > poisoning the well, and claiming that people are buying water > voluntarily. The next sentence is also ominous: “This will not, > however, preclude governments or Registrars from mandating enrolment.” > > That UID is, in effect, going to be compulsory is clear from many > other documents. For instance, the Planning Commission's proposal for > the National Food Security Act argues for “mandatory use of UID > numbers which are expected to become operational by the end of > 2010” (note the optimistic time-frame). No UID, no food. Similarly, > UIDAI's concept note on the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act > (NREGA) assumes that “each citizen needs to provide his UID before > claiming employment.” Thus, Aadhaar will also be a condition for the > right to work — so much for its voluntary nature. > > Now, if the UID is compulsory, then everyone should have a right to > free, convenient and reliable enrolment. The enrolment process, > however, is all set to be a hit-or-miss affair, with no guarantee of > timely and hassle-free inclusion. UIDAI hopes to enrol 600 million > people in the next four years. That is about half of India's > population in the next four years. What about the other half? > > Nor is there any guarantee of reliability. Anyone familiar with the > way things work in rural India would expect the UID database to be > full of errors. There is a sobering lesson here from the Below > Poverty Line (BPL) Census. A recent World Bank study found rampant > anomalies in the BPL list: “A common problem was erroneous > information entered for household members. In one district of > Rajasthan, more than 50 per cent of the household members were listed > as sisters-in-law.” > > Will the UID database be more reliable? Don't bet on it. And it is > not clear how the errors will be corrected as and when they emerge. > > Under the proposed National Identification Authority of India Bill > (“NIDAI Bill”), if someone finds that her “identity information” > is > wrong, she is supposed to “request the Authority” to correct it, upon > which the Authority “may, if it is satisfied, make such alteration as > may be required.” There is a legal obligation to alert the Authority, > but no right to correction. > > The Aadhaar juggernaut is rolling on regardless (and without any > legal safeguards in place), fuelled by mesmerising claims about the > social applications of UID. A prime example is UID's invasion of the > NREGA. NREGA workers are barely recovering from the chaotic rush to > payments of wages through banks. Aadhaar is likely to be the next > ordeal. The local administration is going to be hijacked by enrolment > drives. NREGA works or payments will come to a standstill where > workers are waiting for their Aadhaar number. Others will be the > victims of unreliable technology, inadequate information technology > facilities, or data errors. And for what? Gradual, people-friendly > introduction of innovative technologies would serve the NREGA better > than the UID tamasha. > > The real game plan, for social policy, seems to be a massive > transition to “conditional cash transfers” (CCTs). There is more than > a hint of this “revolutionary” plan in Nandan Nilekani's book, > Imagining India. Since then, CCTs have become the rage in policy > circles. A recent Planning Commission document argues that successful > CCTs require “a biometric identification system,” now made possible > by “the initiation of a Unique Identification System (UID) for the > entire population …” The same document recommends a string of mega > CCTs, including cash transfers to replace the Public Distribution > System. > > If the backroom boys have their way, India's public services as we > know them will soon be history, and every citizen will just have a > Smart Card — food stamps, health insurance, school vouchers, > conditional maternity entitlements and all that rolled into one. This > approach may or may not work (that is incidental), but business at > least will prosper. As the Wall Street Journal says about the > Rashtriya Swasthya Bhima Yojana (which is a pioneering CCT project, > for health insurance), “the plan presents a way for insurance > companies to market themselves and develop brand awareness.” > > The danger > > The biggest danger of UID, however, lies in a restriction of civil > liberties. As one observer aptly put it, Aadhaar is creating “the > infrastructure of authoritarianism” — an unprecedented degree of > state surveillance (and potential control) of citizens. This > infrastructure may or may not be used for sinister designs. But can > we take a chance, in a country where state agencies have such an > awful record of arbitrariness, brutality and impunity? > > In fact, I suspect that the drive towards permanent state > surveillance of all residents has already begun. UIDAI is no Big > Brother, but could others be on the job? Take for instance Captain > Raghu Raman (of the Mahindra Special Services Group), who is quietly > building NATGRID on behalf of the Home Ministry. His columns in the > business media make for chilling reading. Captain Raman believes that > growing inequality is a “powder keg waiting for a spark,” and > advocates corporate takeover of internal security (including a > “private territorial army”), to enable the “commercial czars” to > “protect their empires.” The Maoists sound like choir boys in > comparison. > > There are equally troubling questions about the “NIDAI Bill,” > starting with why it was drafted by UIDAI itself. Not surprisingly, > the draft Bill gives enormous powers to UIDAI's successor, NIDAI — > and with minimal safeguards. To illustrate, the Bill empowers NIDAI > to decide the biometric and demographic information required for an > Aadhaar number (Section 23); “specify the usage and applicability of > the Aadhaar number for delivery of various benefits and > services” (Section 23); authorise whoever it wishes to “maintain the > Central Identities Data Repository” (Section 7) or even to exercise > any of its own “powers and functions” (Section 51); and dictate all > the relevant “regulations” (Section 54). > > Ordinary citizens, for their part, are powerless: they have no right > to a UID number except on NIDAI's terms, no right to correction of > inaccurate data, and — last but not least — no specific means to > redress grievances. In fact, believe it or not, the Bill states (in > Section 46) that “no court shall take cognisance of any offence > punishable under this Act” except based on a complaint authorised by > NIDAI. > > So, is UID a facility or a calamity? It depends for whom. For the > intelligence agencies, bank managers, the corporate sector, and > NIDAI, it will be a facility and a blessing. For ordinary citizens, > especially the poor and marginalised, it could well be a calamity. > > (The author is Visiting Professor at the Department of Economics, > University of Allahabad and Member of the National Advisory Council.) > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sat Nov 27 18:37:59 2010 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:37:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in the Hindu In-Reply-To: References: <79B3ED95-A179-4EF7-BC3D-09A083EAFF52@sarai.net> <003a01cb8e2c$5af56d10$10e04730$@in> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Patrice Riemens wrote: > > Methink RFID_tagging the whole Indian population is a much better idea! > Preferably with a 'destroy' remote command device attached. Then finally > 'gharib hatao' (*) policies can be effectively implemented! > > Partrice, The agenda is much more serious than that . It is not RFID taging. it is Geo tagging See Uncle Sam's (sam pitroda) new project which got approval http://www.slideshare.net/pmpiii/public-information-infrastructure-4560021 GIS tagging people seems to the most scary joke i have seen in recent past. It is covering everything other than adding a GPS Device with gprs modem to your body > (*) don't underestimate my Hindi... > > > > Main intention of UID is to keep watch on criminals and terrorist. Once > > the data is maintained it will be very easy task to keep watch on such > > anti national elements. I don't understand why worry about its > > confidentiality. When election data is an open document and nobody > objects > > to it than why for UID. UID will be worrisome for those involved in > > antinational activity. > > > > However, it should be made compulsory with fingerprints than only it will > > serve its purpose, else it's of no use. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > On Behalf Of Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:04 PM > > To: reader-list list > > Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in > > the Hindu > > > > Dear all, > > > > Please find below a really excellent article by Jean Dreze in The > > Hindu on the UID scheme, which clearly and lucidly argues why the > > building of the database state in India is a very bad idea and a > > recipe for authoritarianism. Hope that this can provoke a debate on the > > > > http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article911055.ece? > > sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cef25dca9aa0aed%2C0 > > > > best. > > > > Shuddha > > > > Unique facility, or recipe for trouble? > > > > Jean Drèze > > > > Opinion/Op Ed, The Hindu, November 25, 2010 > > Many questions remain about the Unique Identity Number system that is > > being rolled out by the Central government. > > > > It is quite likely that a few weeks from now someone will be knocking > > at your doors and asking for your fingerprints. If you agree, your > > fingerprints will enter a national database, along with personal > > characteristics (age, sex, occupation, and so on) that have already > > been collected from you, unless you were missed in the “Census > > household listing†earlier this year. > > > > The purpose of this exercise is to build the National Population > > Register (NPR). In due course, your UID (Unique Identity Number, or > > “Aadhaar†) will be added to it. This will make it possible to link > > the NPR with other Aadhaar-enabled databases, from tax returns to > > bank records and SIM (subscriber identity module) registers. This > > includes the Home Ministry's National Intelligence Grid (NATGRID), > > smoothly linking 21 national databases. > > > > For the intelligence agencies, this will be a dream-come-true. > > Imagine, everyone's fingerprints at the click of a mouse, that too > > with demographic information and all the rest. Should any suspicious > > person book a flight, or use a cybercafé, or any of the services that > > will soon require an Aadhaar number, she will be on their radar. If, > > say, Arundhati Roy makes another trip to Dantewada, she will be > > picked up on arrival like a ripe plum. Fantastic! > > > > ‘A half-truth' > > > > So, when the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) tells > > us that the UID data (the “Central Identities Data Repository†) will > > be safe and confidential, it is a half-truth. The confidentiality of > > the Repository itself is not a minor issue, considering that UIDAI > > can authorise “any entity†to maintain it, and that it can be > > accessed not only by intelligence agencies but also by any Ministry. > > But more important, the UID will help integrate vast amounts of > > personal data, that are available to government agencies with few > > restrictions. > > > > Confidentiality is not the only half-truth propagated by UIDAI. > > Another one is that Aadhaar is not compulsory — it is just a > > voluntary “facility.†UIDAI's concept note stresses that “enrolment > > will not be mandated.†But there is a catch: “... benefits and > > services that are linked to the UID will ensure demand for the > > number.†This is like selling bottled water in a village after > > poisoning the well, and claiming that people are buying water > > voluntarily. The next sentence is also ominous: “This will not, > > however, preclude governments or Registrars from mandating enrolment.†> > > > That UID is, in effect, going to be compulsory is clear from many > > other documents. For instance, the Planning Commission's proposal for > > the National Food Security Act argues for “mandatory use of UID > > numbers which are expected to become operational by the end of > > 2010†(note the optimistic time-frame). No UID, no food. Similarly, > > UIDAI's concept note on the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act > > (NREGA) assumes that “each citizen needs to provide his UID before > > claiming employment.†Thus, Aadhaar will also be a condition for the > > right to work — so much for its voluntary nature. > > > > Now, if the UID is compulsory, then everyone should have a right to > > free, convenient and reliable enrolment. The enrolment process, > > however, is all set to be a hit-or-miss affair, with no guarantee of > > timely and hassle-free inclusion. UIDAI hopes to enrol 600 million > > people in the next four years. That is about half of India's > > population in the next four years. What about the other half? > > > > Nor is there any guarantee of reliability. Anyone familiar with the > > way things work in rural India would expect the UID database to be > > full of errors. There is a sobering lesson here from the Below > > Poverty Line (BPL) Census. A recent World Bank study found rampant > > anomalies in the BPL list: “A common problem was erroneous > > information entered for household members. In one district of > > Rajasthan, more than 50 per cent of the household members were listed > > as sisters-in-law.†> > > > Will the UID database be more reliable? Don't bet on it. And it is > > not clear how the errors will be corrected as and when they emerge. > > > > Under the proposed National Identification Authority of India Bill > > (“NIDAI Bill†), if someone finds that her “identity information†> > is > > wrong, she is supposed to “request the Authority†to correct it, upon > > which the Authority “may, if it is satisfied, make such alteration as > > may be required.†There is a legal obligation to alert the Authority, > > but no right to correction. > > > > The Aadhaar juggernaut is rolling on regardless (and without any > > legal safeguards in place), fuelled by mesmerising claims about the > > social applications of UID. A prime example is UID's invasion of the > > NREGA. NREGA workers are barely recovering from the chaotic rush to > > payments of wages through banks. Aadhaar is likely to be the next > > ordeal. The local administration is going to be hijacked by enrolment > > drives. NREGA works or payments will come to a standstill where > > workers are waiting for their Aadhaar number. Others will be the > > victims of unreliable technology, inadequate information technology > > facilities, or data errors. And for what? Gradual, people-friendly > > introduction of innovative technologies would serve the NREGA better > > than the UID tamasha. > > > > The real game plan, for social policy, seems to be a massive > > transition to “conditional cash transfers†(CCTs). There is more than > > a hint of this “revolutionary†plan in Nandan Nilekani's book, > > Imagining India. Since then, CCTs have become the rage in policy > > circles. A recent Planning Commission document argues that successful > > CCTs require “a biometric identification system,†now made possible > > by “the initiation of a Unique Identification System (UID) for the > > entire population …†The same document recommends a string of mega > > CCTs, including cash transfers to replace the Public Distribution > > System. > > > > If the backroom boys have their way, India's public services as we > > know them will soon be history, and every citizen will just have a > > Smart Card — food stamps, health insurance, school vouchers, > > conditional maternity entitlements and all that rolled into one. This > > approach may or may not work (that is incidental), but business at > > least will prosper. As the Wall Street Journal says about the > > Rashtriya Swasthya Bhima Yojana (which is a pioneering CCT project, > > for health insurance), “the plan presents a way for insurance > > companies to market themselves and develop brand awareness.†> > > > The danger > > > > The biggest danger of UID, however, lies in a restriction of civil > > liberties. As one observer aptly put it, Aadhaar is creating “the > > infrastructure of authoritarianism†— an unprecedented degree of > > state surveillance (and potential control) of citizens. This > > infrastructure may or may not be used for sinister designs. But can > > we take a chance, in a country where state agencies have such an > > awful record of arbitrariness, brutality and impunity? > > > > In fact, I suspect that the drive towards permanent state > > surveillance of all residents has already begun. UIDAI is no Big > > Brother, but could others be on the job? Take for instance Captain > > Raghu Raman (of the Mahindra Special Services Group), who is quietly > > building NATGRID on behalf of the Home Ministry. His columns in the > > business media make for chilling reading. Captain Raman believes that > > growing inequality is a “powder keg waiting for a spark,†and > > advocates corporate takeover of internal security (including a > > “private territorial army†), to enable the “commercial czars†to > > “protect their empires.†The Maoists sound like choir boys in > > comparison. > > > > There are equally troubling questions about the “NIDAI Bill,†> > starting with why it was drafted by UIDAI itself. Not surprisingly, > > the draft Bill gives enormous powers to UIDAI's successor, NIDAI — > > and with minimal safeguards. To illustrate, the Bill empowers NIDAI > > to decide the biometric and demographic information required for an > > Aadhaar number (Section 23); “specify the usage and applicability of > > the Aadhaar number for delivery of various benefits and > > services†(Section 23); authorise whoever it wishes to “maintain the > > Central Identities Data Repository†(Section 7) or even to exercise > > any of its own “powers and functions†(Section 51); and dictate all > > the relevant “regulations†(Section 54). > > > > Ordinary citizens, for their part, are powerless: they have no right > > to a UID number except on NIDAI's terms, no right to correction of > > inaccurate data, and — last but not least — no specific means to > > redress grievances. In fact, believe it or not, the Bill states (in > > Section 46) that “no court shall take cognisance of any offence > > punishable under this Act†except based on a complaint authorised by > > NIDAI. > > > > So, is UID a facility or a calamity? It depends for whom. For the > > intelligence agencies, bank managers, the corporate sector, and > > NIDAI, it will be a facility and a blessing. For ordinary citizens, > > especially the poor and marginalised, it could well be a calamity. > > > > (The author is Visiting Professor at the Department of Economics, > > University of Allahabad and Member of the National Advisory Council.) > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth From anu.mukh at gmail.com Sat Nov 27 18:56:15 2010 From: anu.mukh at gmail.com (anuradha mukherjee) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:56:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in the Hindu In-Reply-To: References: <79B3ED95-A179-4EF7-BC3D-09A083EAFF52@sarai.net> <003a01cb8e2c$5af56d10$10e04730$@in> Message-ID: Was trying to get some instances of data theft. In 2007, NHS data was stolen in UK in which financial details were also involved. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7449927.stm Previous cases of missing data *There has been a series of cases where confidential information has been lost or stolen.* Several laptops containing sensitive data have gone missing and files marked Top Secret have been left on a commuter train. In one of the most high-profile cases, a private consulting firm lost a computer memory stick containing the details of tens of thousands of prisoners. Here are other cases to emerge in the recent past: *MAY 2009: RAF PERSONNEL DATA* It emerged that data lost from RAF Innsworth in Gloucestershire the previous September included 500 highly sensitive files, containing details of individuals' extra-marital affairs, debts and drug use. An internal MoD memo passed to the BBC warned that the material "provides excellent material for Foreign Intelligence Services and blackmailers". On the same day, a report from the Information Commissioner told the NHS to improve its data security, after the watchdog took action against 14 NHS organisations in the last six months. *JANUARY 2009: PRISONER MEDICAL RECORDS* A health worker in Lancashire lost a memory stick containing the medical details of more than 6,000 prisoners and ex-prisoners from HMP Preston. The data was encrypted, but the password had been written on a note which was attached to the stick when it was misplaced. *NOVEMBER 2008: GOVERNMENT COMPUTER PASSWORDS* A memory stick - holding passwords for a government computer system - was found in the car park of a pub in Staffordshire. The Gateway website gives access to services including tax returns and child benefits. The memory stick was lost by an employee of a subcontractor called Atos Origin. *OCTOBER 2008: MINISTRY OF DEFENCE DATA* A computer hard drive containing the personal details of about 100,000 of the Armed Forces was reported missing during an audit carried out by IT contractor EDS. It is thought to contain more than 1.5m pieces of information, possibly unencrypted, including the details of 600,000 potential recruits, a small amount of information about bank details, passport numbers, addresses, dates of birth, driving licence details and telephone numbers. The Ministry of Defence police said it was investigating the disappearance but it is not yet known whether or not it was stolen. *SEPTEMBER 2008: JUSTICE AND RAF EMPLOYEE DETAILS* The government confirmed that a portable hard drive holding details of up to 5,000 employees of the justice system was lost in July 2007. The details of employees of the National Offender Management Service in England and Wales, including prison staff, were lost by a private firm, EDS. Officials only realised the data was missing in July of this year. Justice Secretary Jack Straw launched an inquiry. Also this month, the MoD admitted that tens of thousands of personnel files had been lost from RAF Innsworth in Gloucestershire. Hard disks containing the data, which included names, addresses and some bank account details, were taken from a secure area. *AUGUST 2008: DATA ON CRIMINALS* Home Office contractor PA Consulting admitted losing a computer memory stick containing information on all 84,000 prisoners in England and Wales. It also held personal details of about 10,000 prolific offenders. The Home Office suspended the transfer of all further data to the private firm pending the outcome of an investigation. An Information Commissioner's investigation later ruled that the Home Office had broken data protection laws over the incident and must sign a formal undertaking to improve its procedures in future. *JULY 2008: MEMORY STICKS AND LAPTOPS* The Ministry of Defence confirmed that 121 computer memory sticks and more than twice as many laptops than previously thought have been lost or stolen in the past four years. Armed Forces Minister Bob Ainsworth gave a written statement to parliament saying 121 USB memory devices had gone astray - five of which contained secret data. And in a parliamentary written answer, Defence Secretary Des Browne said 747 laptops had been stolen - 400 more than originally reported. Of those, 32 have been recovered so far. *JUNE 2008: TERROR DOCUMENTS* A senior intelligence officer from the Cabinet Office was suspended after documents were left on the seat of commuter train from London Waterloo. A passenger later handed them to the BBC. The seven-page file, classified as "UK Top Secret", contained a report entitled "Al-Qaeda Vulnerabilities" and an assessment of the state of Iraq's security forces. Cabinet Minister Ed Miliband said there had been a "clear breach" of security rules, which forbid the removal of such documents from government premises. But Mr Miliband said national security did not seem to be "at risk". Two inquiries - one by the Cabinet Office, the other by the Metropolitan Police - have been launched. *APRIL 2008: MCDONALD'S LAPTOP* An Army captain's laptop was taken from under his chair as he ate in a McDonald's, near the Ministry of Defence's Whitehall headquarters. The MoD said the data on the laptop was not sensitive, and was fully encrypted. This is the latest MoD laptop theft to be made public and it came after the government tightened the rules on employees taking computers out of work. Whitehall staff are now banned from taking unencrypted laptops or drives containing personal data outside secured office premises. *JANUARY 2008: MILITARY RECRUITS* A laptop computer belonging to a Royal Navy officer was stolen from car in Edgbaston, Birmingham. It contained the personal details of 600,000 people who had expressed an interest in, or applied to join, the Royal Navy, Royal Marines and the RAF. It contained data including passport numbers, National Insurance numbers and bank details. Defence Secretary Des Browne later admitted the inquiry into the loss of the Royal Navy officer's laptop uncovered two similar thefts since 2005. At the time, Dr Liam Fox, shadow defence secretary, said 68 MoD laptops had been stolen in 2007, 66 in 2006, 40 in 2005 and 173 in 2004. *DECEMBER 2007: DRIVING TEST CANDIDATES* The details of three million candidates for the UK driving theory test went missing in the US. Names, addresses and phone numbers - but no financial information - were among the details stored on a computer hard drive, which belonged to a contractor working for the Driving Standards Agency. The information was sent electronically to contractor Pearson Driving Assessments in Iowa and the hard drive was then sent to another state before being brought back to Iowa, where it went missing. Ministers said the information had been formatted specifically to meet the security requirements of Pearson Driving Assessments and was not "readily usable or accessible" by third parties. *NOVEMBER 2007: CHILD BENEFIT RECORDS* HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) lost two computer discs containing the entire child benefit records, including the personal details of 25 million people - covering 7.25 million families overall. The two discs contained the names, addresses, dates of birth and bank account details of people who received child benefit. They also included National Insurance numbers. They were sent via internal mail from HMRC in Washington, north-east England, to the National Audit Office in London on 18 October, by a junior official, and never arrived. The Metropolitan Police were informed of the loss in November and extensive searches began. In December, a reward of £20,000 was offered for the return of the two discs, but they were never recovered. On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Anivar Aravind wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Patrice Riemens > wrote: > > > > > Methink RFID_tagging the whole Indian population is a much better idea! > > Preferably with a 'destroy' remote command device attached. Then finally > > 'gharib hatao' (*) policies can be effectively implemented! > > > > > Partrice, > The agenda is much more serious than that . It is not RFID taging. it is > Geo > tagging > See Uncle Sam's (sam pitroda) new project which got approval > http://www.slideshare.net/pmpiii/public-information-infrastructure-4560021 > > GIS tagging people seems to the most scary joke i have seen in recent > past. It is covering everything other than adding a GPS Device with gprs > modem to > your body > > > > > > (*) don't underestimate my Hindi... > > > > > > > Main intention of UID is to keep watch on criminals and terrorist. Once > > > the data is maintained it will be very easy task to keep watch on such > > > anti national elements. I don't understand why worry about its > > > confidentiality. When election data is an open document and nobody > > objects > > > to it than why for UID. UID will be worrisome for those involved in > > > antinational activity. > > > > > > However, it should be made compulsory with fingerprints than only it > will > > > serve its purpose, else it's of no use. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bipin Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto: > > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > > > On Behalf Of Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:04 PM > > > To: reader-list list > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Jean Dreze on the UID-Database State in India in > > > the Hindu > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > Please find below a really excellent article by Jean Dreze in The > > > Hindu on the UID scheme, which clearly and lucidly argues why the > > > building of the database state in India is a very bad idea and a > > > recipe for authoritarianism. Hope that this can provoke a debate on the > > > > > > http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article911055.ece? > > > sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cef25dca9aa0aed%2C0 > > > > > > best. > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > Unique facility, or recipe for trouble? > > > > > > Jean Drèze > > > > > > Opinion/Op Ed, The Hindu, November 25, 2010 > > > Many questions remain about the Unique Identity Number system that is > > > being rolled out by the Central government. > > > > > > It is quite likely that a few weeks from now someone will be knocking > > > at your doors and asking for your fingerprints. If you agree, your > > > fingerprints will enter a national database, along with personal > > > characteristics (age, sex, occupation, and so on) that have already > > > been collected from you, unless you were missed in the “Census > > > household listing†earlier this year. > > > > > > The purpose of this exercise is to build the National Population > > > Register (NPR). In due course, your UID (Unique Identity Number, or > > > “Aadhaar†) will be added to it. This will make it possible to link > > > the NPR with other Aadhaar-enabled databases, from tax returns to > > > bank records and SIM (subscriber identity module) registers. This > > > includes the Home Ministry's National Intelligence Grid (NATGRID), > > > smoothly linking 21 national databases. > > > > > > For the intelligence agencies, this will be a dream-come-true. > > > Imagine, everyone's fingerprints at the click of a mouse, that too > > > with demographic information and all the rest. Should any suspicious > > > person book a flight, or use a cybercafé, or any of the services that > > > will soon require an Aadhaar number, she will be on their radar. If, > > > say, Arundhati Roy makes another trip to Dantewada, she will be > > > picked up on arrival like a ripe plum. Fantastic! > > > > > > ‘A half-truth' > > > > > > So, when the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) tells > > > us that the UID data (the “Central Identities Data Repository†) > will > > > be safe and confidential, it is a half-truth. The confidentiality of > > > the Repository itself is not a minor issue, considering that UIDAI > > > can authorise “any entity†to maintain it, and that it can be > > > accessed not only by intelligence agencies but also by any Ministry. > > > But more important, the UID will help integrate vast amounts of > > > personal data, that are available to government agencies with few > > > restrictions. > > > > > > Confidentiality is not the only half-truth propagated by UIDAI. > > > Another one is that Aadhaar is not compulsory — it is just a > > > voluntary “facility.†UIDAI's concept note stresses that > “enrolment > > > will not be mandated.†But there is a catch: “... benefits and > > > services that are linked to the UID will ensure demand for the > > > number.†This is like selling bottled water in a village after > > > poisoning the well, and claiming that people are buying water > > > voluntarily. The next sentence is also ominous: “This will not, > > > however, preclude governments or Registrars from mandating enrolment.†> > > > > > That UID is, in effect, going to be compulsory is clear from many > > > other documents. For instance, the Planning Commission's proposal for > > > the National Food Security Act argues for “mandatory use of UID > > > numbers which are expected to become operational by the end of > > > 2010†(note the optimistic time-frame). No UID, no food. Similarly, > > > UIDAI's concept note on the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act > > > (NREGA) assumes that “each citizen needs to provide his UID before > > > claiming employment.†Thus, Aadhaar will also be a condition for the > > > right to work — so much for its voluntary nature. > > > > > > Now, if the UID is compulsory, then everyone should have a right to > > > free, convenient and reliable enrolment. The enrolment process, > > > however, is all set to be a hit-or-miss affair, with no guarantee of > > > timely and hassle-free inclusion. UIDAI hopes to enrol 600 million > > > people in the next four years. That is about half of India's > > > population in the next four years. What about the other half? > > > > > > Nor is there any guarantee of reliability. Anyone familiar with the > > > way things work in rural India would expect the UID database to be > > > full of errors. There is a sobering lesson here from the Below > > > Poverty Line (BPL) Census. A recent World Bank study found rampant > > > anomalies in the BPL list: “A common problem was erroneous > > > information entered for household members. In one district of > > > Rajasthan, more than 50 per cent of the household members were listed > > > as sisters-in-law.†> > > > > > Will the UID database be more reliable? Don't bet on it. And it is > > > not clear how the errors will be corrected as and when they emerge. > > > > > > Under the proposed National Identification Authority of India Bill > > > (“NIDAI Bill†), if someone finds that her “identity information†> > > is > > > wrong, she is supposed to “request the Authority†to correct it, > upon > > > which the Authority “may, if it is satisfied, make such alteration as > > > may be required.†There is a legal obligation to alert the Authority, > > > but no right to correction. > > > > > > The Aadhaar juggernaut is rolling on regardless (and without any > > > legal safeguards in place), fuelled by mesmerising claims about the > > > social applications of UID. A prime example is UID's invasion of the > > > NREGA. NREGA workers are barely recovering from the chaotic rush to > > > payments of wages through banks. Aadhaar is likely to be the next > > > ordeal. The local administration is going to be hijacked by enrolment > > > drives. NREGA works or payments will come to a standstill where > > > workers are waiting for their Aadhaar number. Others will be the > > > victims of unreliable technology, inadequate information technology > > > facilities, or data errors. And for what? Gradual, people-friendly > > > introduction of innovative technologies would serve the NREGA better > > > than the UID tamasha. > > > > > > The real game plan, for social policy, seems to be a massive > > > transition to “conditional cash transfers†(CCTs). There is more > than > > > a hint of this “revolutionary†plan in Nandan Nilekani's book, > > > Imagining India. Since then, CCTs have become the rage in policy > > > circles. A recent Planning Commission document argues that successful > > > CCTs require “a biometric identification system,†now made possible > > > by “the initiation of a Unique Identification System (UID) for the > > > entire population …†The same document recommends a string of mega > > > CCTs, including cash transfers to replace the Public Distribution > > > System. > > > > > > If the backroom boys have their way, India's public services as we > > > know them will soon be history, and every citizen will just have a > > > Smart Card — food stamps, health insurance, school vouchers, > > > conditional maternity entitlements and all that rolled into one. This > > > approach may or may not work (that is incidental), but business at > > > least will prosper. As the Wall Street Journal says about the > > > Rashtriya Swasthya Bhima Yojana (which is a pioneering CCT project, > > > for health insurance), “the plan presents a way for insurance > > > companies to market themselves and develop brand awareness.†> > > > > > The danger > > > > > > The biggest danger of UID, however, lies in a restriction of civil > > > liberties. As one observer aptly put it, Aadhaar is creating “the > > > infrastructure of authoritarianism†— an unprecedented degree of > > > state surveillance (and potential control) of citizens. This > > > infrastructure may or may not be used for sinister designs. But can > > > we take a chance, in a country where state agencies have such an > > > awful record of arbitrariness, brutality and impunity? > > > > > > In fact, I suspect that the drive towards permanent state > > > surveillance of all residents has already begun. UIDAI is no Big > > > Brother, but could others be on the job? Take for instance Captain > > > Raghu Raman (of the Mahindra Special Services Group), who is quietly > > > building NATGRID on behalf of the Home Ministry. His columns in the > > > business media make for chilling reading. Captain Raman believes that > > > growing inequality is a “powder keg waiting for a spark,†and > > > advocates corporate takeover of internal security (including a > > > “private territorial army†), to enable the “commercial czars†> to > > > “protect their empires.†The Maoists sound like choir boys in > > > comparison. > > > > > > There are equally troubling questions about the “NIDAI Bill,†> > > starting with why it was drafted by UIDAI itself. Not surprisingly, > > > the draft Bill gives enormous powers to UIDAI's successor, NIDAI — > > > and with minimal safeguards. To illustrate, the Bill empowers NIDAI > > > to decide the biometric and demographic information required for an > > > Aadhaar number (Section 23); “specify the usage and applicability of > > > the Aadhaar number for delivery of various benefits and > > > services†(Section 23); authorise whoever it wishes to “maintain > the > > > Central Identities Data Repository†(Section 7) or even to exercise > > > any of its own “powers and functions†(Section 51); and dictate all > > > the relevant “regulations†(Section 54). > > > > > > Ordinary citizens, for their part, are powerless: they have no right > > > to a UID number except on NIDAI's terms, no right to correction of > > > inaccurate data, and — last but not least — no specific means to > > > redress grievances. In fact, believe it or not, the Bill states (in > > > Section 46) that “no court shall take cognisance of any offence > > > punishable under this Act†except based on a complaint authorised by > > > NIDAI. > > > > > > So, is UID a facility or a calamity? It depends for whom. For the > > > intelligence agencies, bank managers, the corporate sector, and > > > NIDAI, it will be a facility and a blessing. For ordinary citizens, > > > especially the poor and marginalised, it could well be a calamity. > > > > > > (The author is Visiting Professor at the Department of Economics, > > > University of Allahabad and Member of the National Advisory Council.) > > > > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' > algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of > precise > information." - Donald Knuth > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com Sat Nov 27 20:14:25 2010 From: santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com (santhosh hk) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 06:44:25 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] Mass Petition Demanding total ban of the production and use of Endosulfan Message-ID: Mass Petition Demanding total ban of the production and use of Endosulfan- the toxic Pesticide To The Minister of Environment Government of India Dear Sir We, the concerned citizens and affected people, would like to invite your urgent attention to the disastrous results that Endosulfan- - the toxic pesticide – has wreaked on the lives people and environment of India. On the basis of clear evidence that unmistakably and amply demonstrated the adverse impact of Endosulfan, we urge you to immediately ban the production, distribution and the use of this toxic pesticide in India Endosulfan is being considered for a global ban by the Stockholm Convention Persistent Organic Pollutants. It is indeed a matter of grave concern that India is one of the countries opposing this ban, especially given the population density of the nation and the popular ignorance of the extent to which pesticides can be harmful. India is one of the countries worst affected by the production and use of the toxic pesticide. The people of India have a right to life, guaranteed by Article 21 of our Constitution. As Endosulfan, being a confirmed toxic pesticide, has been proved to have adverse impact on the right to health and life of the people, we demand urgent ban of the production, distribution and use of Endosulfan at the very earliest. I. Evidence Against the Use of Endosulfan in India We would like to invite your attention to following clear evidences against the production and use of Endosulfan. 1) Endosulfan is an organochlorine compound that is used as an insecticide and acaricide. It is one of the most toxic pesticides in the market today, responsible for many fatal pesticide poisoning incidents around the world.] Endosulfan is also a xenoestrogen—a synthetic substance that imitates or enhances the effect of estrogens—and it can act as an endocrine disruptor, causing reproductive and developmental damage in both animals and humans. There are also studies that indicate that endosulfan may a potential cause for cancer 2) India the world's largest user of endosulfan, and a major producer with three companies—Excel Crop Care, H.I.L., and Coromandal Fertilizers—producing 4,500 tonnes annually for domestic use and another 4,000 tonnes for export. Banned in more than 63 countries, including the European Union, Australia and New Zealand, and other Asian and West African nations, and soon in the United States[3][4]this toxic pesticide is extensively in many parts of India. It is produced by Bayer Crop Science, Makhteshim Agan, and Government-of-India–owned Hindustan Insecticides Limited among others. Because of its threats to the environment, there is an increasing demand for the global ban on the use and manufacture of endosulfan under the Stockholm Convention. 3) Endosulfan was used in Kasrgod district of Kerala since 1979. The disastrous impact of Endosulfan was first seen among animals and then among the adverse health conditions of people living in the areas. By the 1990s, the human population of Kasaragod came face to face with the scale of the tragedy. With congenital anomalies, mental retardation, physical deformities, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, hydrocephalus etc, the innocent children of the area were found to be the worst affected. Men and women were also affected with various chronic ailments, many irreversible and difficult to treat. There is a high incidence of disorders of the central nerves system, Cancer and reproductive disorders. The National Institute Occupational Health (Indian Council of Medical Research) says that after studying various etiological factors responsible for health problem was aerial spraying of Endosulfan. 4) Due to local protests of people, the issue has acquired more visibility and attention of the policy makers. In 2001, in Kerala, endosulfan spraying became suspect when linked to a series of abnormalities noted in local children. . Initially endosulfan was banned, yet under pressure from the pesticide industry this ban was largely revoked. Due to the recent protest against Endosulfan, the use of the pesticide is again banned in Kerala. The situation there has been called "next in magnitude only to the Bhopal gas tragedy."In 2006, in Kerala, compensation of Rs 50,000 was paid to the next kin of each of 135 people who were identified as having died as a result of endosulfan use. Chief Minister V. S. Achuthanandan also gave an assurance to people affected by poisoning, "that the government would chalk out a plan to take care of treatment, food and other needs of the affected persons and that its promise of rehabilitation of victims would be honoured." All the above points clearly show the urgent need for banning the production and use of endosulfan in India. II. Scientific Evidence against the production and use of Endosulfan We would further invite your attend to the scientific evidence against the use of Endosulfan. a) Toxicity Endosulfan is acutely neurotoxic to both insects and mammals, including humans. The US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) classifies it as Category I: "Highly Acutely Toxic" based on a LD value of 30 mg/kg for female rats while the World Health Organization classifies it as Class II "Moderately Hazardous" based on a rat LD50 of 80 mg/kg. It is a GABA-gated chloride channel antagonist, and a Ca2+, Mg2+ ATPase inhibitor. Both of these enzymes are involved in the transfer of nerve impulses. Symptoms of acute poisoning include hyperactivity, tremors, convulsions, lack of coordination, staggering, difficulty breathing, nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, and in severe cases, unconsciousness. Doses as low as 35 mg/kg have been documented to cause death in humans,] and many cases of sub-lethal poisoning have resulted in permanent brain damage] Farm workers with chronic endosulfan exposure are at risk of rashes and skin irritation. EPA's acute reference dose for dietary exposure to endosulfan is 0.015 mg/kg for adults and 0.0015 mg/kg for children. For chronic dietary exposure, the EPA references doses are 0.006 mg/ (kg•day) and 0.0006 mg/ (kg•day) for adults and children, respectively. b) Adverse Impact on Health Several studies have documented that endosulfan can also affect human development. Researchers studying children from an isolated village in Kerala, India have linked endosulfan exposure to delays in sexual maturity among boys. Endosulfan was the only pesticide applied to cashew plantations in the hills above the village for 20 years and had contaminated the village environment. The researchers compared the villagers to a control group of boys from a demographically similar village that lacked a history of endosulfan pollution. Relative to the control group, the exposed boys had high levels of endosulfan in their bodies, lower levels of testosterone, and delays in reaching sexual maturity. Birth defects of the male reproductive system including cryptorchidism were also more prevalent in the study group. The researchers concluded that "our study results suggest that endosulfan exposure in male children may delay sexual maturity and interfere with sex hormone synthesis." Increased incidences of cryptorchidism have been observed in other studies of endosulfan exposed populations. A 2007 study by the California Department of Public Health found that women who lived near farm fields sprayed with endosulfan and the related organochloride pesticide dicofol during the first eight weeks of pregnancy are several times more likely to give birth to children with autism. This is the first study to look for an association between endosulfan and autism, and additional study is needed to confirm the connection.] A 2009 assessment concluded that epidemiology and rodent studies that suggest male reproductive and autism effects are open to other interpretations, and that developmental or reproductive toxicity occurs only at endosulfan doses that cause neurotoxicity. c) Environmental Impact Endosulfan is a very persistent chemical which may stay in the environment for lengthy periods of time, particularly in acid media." It is pointed out that “endosulfan has relatively high potential to bioaccumulate in fish." It is also toxic to amphibians: low levels have been found to kill tadpoles.] Endosulfan is subject to long range atmospheric transport, i.e. it can travel long distances from where it is used. For example, a 2008 report by the National Park Service found that endosulfan commonly contaminates air, water, plants and fish of national parks in the U.S. Most of these parks are far from areas where endosulfan is used]Endosulfan has also been detected in dust from the Sahara Desert collected in the Caribbean after being blown across the Atlantic Ocean.] In 2009, the committee of scientific experts of the Stockholm Convention concluded that "endosulfan is likely, as a result of long range environmental transport, to lead to significant adverse human health and environmental effects such that global action is warranted." d) Global Advocacy Against Endosulfan In 2007, the international community took steps to restrict the use and trade of endosulfan. It is recommended for inclusion in the Rotterdam Convention on Prior Informed Consent, and the European Union proposed to add it to the list of chemicals banned under the Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants. If approved, all use and manufacture of endosulfan would be banned globally. Meanwhile, Canada announces that endosulfan is under consideration for phase-out in that country, [and Bayer Crop Science voluntarily pulls its endosulfan products from the U.S. market] but continues to sell them abroad. In February 2008, environmental, consumer, and farm labor groups including the Natural Resources Defense Council, Organic Consumers Association, and the United Farm Workers called on the U.S. EPA to ban endosulfan. In May, coalitions of scientists, environmental groups, and arctic tribes asked the EPA to cancel endosulfan, [and in July a coalition of environmental and workers groups filed a lawsuit against the EPA challenging its 2002 decision to not ban it. In October, the Review Committee of the Stockholm Convention moved endosulfan along in the procedure for listing under the treaty, while India blocked its addition to the Rotterdam Convention We would further like to invite your attention to the clear case of the adverse impact of Endosulfan in the state of Kerala: In Kerala, the pesticide was banned in 2001, but as per the Insecticide act 1968, State Governments do not have the authority to ban a pesticide, and the ban was subsequently lifted. The sale of the pesticide was stopped by the order of the Kerala High Court in 2002, and later, in 2006, the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperation Issued a Gazette Notification, withholding its further sale in the state. It is widely reported in the press with ample proof that the use of Endosulfan is being continued to be used in Kerala on a large scale. We demand a complete ban of production, distribution and use of Endosulfan in the country to ensure health and safety people and environmental sustainability of India. We demand the victims of the tragedy be identified and be given health care extensively and free of cost as also a compensation befitting the proportions of the tragedy that has befallen them. Malayalanatu facebook community & web weekly Sign here: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/banendosulfan/ From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 27 21:18:56 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 07:48:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi Katha, at IIC, New Delhi Message-ID: <419722.13770.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Friends, this is highly reccommended. Please attend and also forward to others who might be interested. http://www.delhievents.com/2010/11/gandhi-katha-by-narayan-desai-at-main.html Gandhi Katha by Narayan Desai at Main Building, IIC, Lodhi Estate; Time: 5:30pm-8:30pm on 26th-29th November 2010 Entry : Free, Call 011-24619431 ( IIC ) to re-confirm any last minute change or cancellation of the event. Place : Gandhi-King Plaza, Main Building, India International Centre(IIC), 40 Max Muller Marg, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi-110003 Event Details : Gandhi Katha by Narayan Desai. The Gandhi Katha conveys the story of Mahatma Gandhi, providing an insight into his inner recesses as well as an analysis of his role in history through storytelling with appropriate songs composed by him. The Gandhi Katha started six years ago as reparative acts of creative non-violence after the violence in Gujarat in 2002. Songs rendered by Sardar Patel School. Collaboration : Gandhi Peace Foundation and WSAG further details accessed from - http://www.indiareadyreckoner.com/2010/11/gandhi-katha-at-iic-delhi-from-26-to-30.html Gandhi Katha at IIC - Delhi from 26 to 30 November 2010 India International Centre Cordially invites you to Gandhi Katha by Narayan Desai The Gandhi Katha conveys the story of Mahatma Gandhi, providing an insight into his inner recesses as well as an analysis of his role in history through storytelling with appropriate songs composed by Narayan Desai. The Gandhi Katha started six years ago as reparative acts of creative non-violence after the violence in Gujarat in 2002. The Katha Songs rendered by Students of Sardar Patel Vidyalaya. Friday 26, Saturday 27, Sunday 28, Monday 29 and Tuesday 30 November 2010 Every Day from 4.30 pm to 7.30 pm Gandhi-King Memorial Plaza India International Centre 40, Max Mueller Marg New Delhi -110 003 As part of this programme there will be an exhibition of photographs: Recall the Face Conceptualised and curated by Suryakanthi Tripathi Exhibition of Books on Mahatma Gandhi On view in the main verandah, IIC Jointly organised by India International Centre Gandhi Peace Foundation and Working Group on Alternative Strategies Bus Numbers: 047,052,440,521,522,526,580; Bus Stops: Get off at 'Lodhi Road Xing' or 'Max Mueller Marg'. Bus Numbers: 326, 344, 970, 994; Bus Stops: Get off at 'Mausam Bhawan' or 'Lodhi Garden'. Bus Numbers: 026, 048, 056, 408, 719, 734; Bus Stop: Get off at ' Lodhi Colony 18 Block'. Nearest Metro Stations: ‘Jorbagh’ on Yellow Line ‘Khan Market’ on Violet Line Wheelchair access is available. Narayan Desai: Born in 1924; chose not to have a formal education – support came from his father, Mahadev Desai and Gandhiji for this; worked with his father (who was Gandhiji’s personal secretary) in Gandhiji’s secretariat 1936-46; participated in the freedom movement. After India’s Independence, active participant and leader in Vinobha Bhave’s Bhoodan Movement from 1952-60 and later with Jayaprakash Narayan 1960-76; walked 12,000 kms and received 3000 acres of land for distribution; was National Secretary of the Shanti Sena, the All India People’s Committee, Chairman of the War Resistors International, and Founder Member and Director of World Peace Brigade. An accomplished author and editor; has written over 50 books in Gujarati, Hindi and English, including the epic four-volume biography in Gujarati Maru Jivan Ej Mari Vani* – hailed as one of the finest insights into the life of Gandhi; has edited Bhoomiputra, Yaqueen, Buniyadi Yaqueen, Tarun Mun and Sarvodaya Jagat, has won many awards that include the Bharatiya Jnanpith Murtidevi Award, the Sahitya Akademi Award, the Ranajitram Suvarna Chandrak (highest literary award in Gujarati); also received the Jamnalal Bajaj Award for constructive work and UNESCO Madanjeet Singh Award for Non-violence and Tolerance; is Chancellor of the Gujarat Vidyapeeth (founded by Gandhiji in 1920) and President of Gujarati Sahitya Parishad; lives in Vedchhi, a small tribal village in south Gujarat, where he set up a centre to train activists in Gandhiji’s values – here hundreds of young rural activists have learnt manual work and self-reliance and have gone on to question the 'developmental model' in various parts of the country. * Now available in English, translated from the original Gujarati by Tridip Suhrud and published by Orient BlackSwan in four volumes: My Life is My Message (2009). For any further information please contact: India International Centre (Premola Ghose/L.S. Tochhawng-24619431) Gandhi Peace Foundation (Ramesh Sharma-9868221950) Working Group on Alternative Strategies (Suhas Borker-9868182845) From shumonagoel at gmail.com Sat Nov 27 23:55:13 2010 From: shumonagoel at gmail.com (Shumona Goel) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 23:55:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Domestic Violence Case - Nashik Message-ID: Dear Friends, Please suggest the name of an NGO in Nashik that may be able to intervene in a case of domestic violence. Thanks, Shumona From chintan.backups at gmail.com Sun Nov 28 08:53:46 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:53:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Peace Tree Message-ID: Dear all I watched a beautiful film at the Open Space resource centre in Pune ( http://www.openspaceindia.org/) this Friday. It's called The Peace Tree. Many of you would enjoy watching and sharing it. Here's a synopsis from the film's website: Shazia, a 7 year old Muslim girl and Kylie, her Christian friend, dream of celebrating each others' festivals, Christmas and Eid. But when they share their dreams, they are met with resistance from their parents who express their concerns. The Peace Tree shares the voices of the children who try to enlighten their parents to the importance of sharing and celebrating diversity together. Through their struggles, they create a unique symbol – The Peace Tree. For more, check http://www.sandalwoodproductions.com/peacetree/synopsis.html I don't know any Indian store that sells copies of this film. The contact page on the website gives you a Toronto address. http://www.sandalwoodproductions.com/peacetree/contact.html Chintan From prem.cnt at gmail.com Sun Nov 28 11:59:40 2010 From: prem.cnt at gmail.com (Prem Chandavarkar) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:59:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Defending One's Faith Message-ID: This short essay was published today in The Hindu in the Open Page section: http://www.hindu.com/op/2010/11/28/stories/2010112855731400.htm DEFENDING ONE'S FAITH Almost every day one encounters news of members of a particular religious community resorting to strident action because they feel that their faith is under threat and requires defence. Some express their outrage over what they perceive as blasphemous utterances or actions by others. Some believe that a place authentically belonging to their faith has been usurped by another, and must be reclaimed. Some say another faith’s practices are an assault on the purity of their own beliefs and therefore must be suppressed. Some even label members of other religious communities as an inferior category of “unbelievers”. Often, this compulsion to defend one’s faith breaks out of the bonds of compassion and social order, expressing itself violently through riots or terrorism. But what exactly are these people defending? Do they seek to defend god? Swami Vivekananda writes in his autobiography of travelling in Kashmir and feeling intense anguish on seeing the desecration of innumerable temples by invaders. He fell at the feet of the Divine Mother in a Kali temple and asked “How could you let this happen, Mother? Why did you permit this desecration?” In response, the Divine Mother appeared in his heart and admonished him “What is it to you, Vivekananda, if the invader breaks my images? Do you protect me, or do I protect you?” This incident clearly demonstrates that god exists at a level that is beyond the need for human defence. If a human does claim to defend god, then that speaks either of a lack of belief in the omnipotence of god, or a misplaced sense of human ego in relationship to the will of god. It may be fellow humans who are being defended rather than god. It is the sentiments of ordinary people at stake: people who are hurt if their god is blasphemed; people who wish to worship in those places they feel are most holy and feel that they are not able to do so; people who feel disturbed in their own worship by the contradictory practices of others. But the security of one’s faith should really be a direct function of the total belief in the power of the god that one worships. If I truly believe in god and His omnipotence, then I should also recognise that whatever happens on earth is as per His will. If I fear that my faith is in danger, I am expressing doubt in the god I worship; expecting that He is either willingly allowing His community of believers to be placed in danger, or is incapable of protecting them from harm. Perhaps trying times occur as a test of the solidity of my own faith in god. And when I respond by immediately passing normative judgment and blame to others, I am failing to acknowledge the cracks in the faith within my own heart: an internal insecurity that has nothing to do with the actions and practices of other religious faiths. The era we currently live in has a fundamental difference from earlier times in human history when politics operated on the principle of “might is right”. Empires were feudally governed, and waxed and waned on the basis of their military campaigns and conquests. Royalty often sought to legitimise its power by claiming that it was divinely ordained to rule; which required co-opting the support of religious authority. Often, religious institutions formed the foundation of geo-political stability. Organised religion was thoroughly intertwined with politics. But we now live in times where our political beliefs are founded on ethical precepts such as democracy, human rights and the rule of law. People no longer need to turn to organised religion in order to organise or stabilise society. In this age, religion has to stand on its own; which will happen only if the faith in the hearts of its believers is true, solid and complete. The struggle is private and internal, and a need to publicly defend a faith is implicitly admitting either a lack of belief in the power of god or insecurity in the faith of His believers. A strident call for public action to defend a faith may over time serve to undermine the very cause that it claims to plead. From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Sun Nov 28 15:57:05 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:27:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru Message-ID: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ARUNDHATI ROY : "My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the state"   has the court asked the police to file an FIR against arundhati roy for 'waging war against the state' or is arundhati trifling with facts?   the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in the seminar on 21/10/2010  ........ it does not say anything about 'waging war against the state'   it is another thing that arundhati roy's utterance could be interpreted as 'waging war against the state'   as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or that a court of law should be approached with the complaint that delhi police have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' by arundhati (amongst others)   so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted below from 'the hindu')   she seeks to compare her statements on kashmir with those of nehru on kashmir and suggests that delhi police "should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too"   (her statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a regurgitation of what has since long been put forward as arguments by the secessionist and secession supporting propaganda machines ...... geelani also used the quotes just a few days back)   this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about kashmir   in comparing her utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy gives us a list of 13 quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna menon)   what arundhati roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the position of goi (and of nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k to india as confirmedly final (in what goi considers as fulfilling it's part of the un resolution on kashmir) is on the basis of the ratification of j&k's accession to india by the constituent assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954    the nehru statements nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that ratification date of 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the status of j&k with respect to india was subjected to a lot of questioning (including the un resolution) and nehru acknowledged that as is reflected in his statements   after the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, goi treated the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable and nehru did not make any statement that carried the vein of the statements 1 to 12 quoted by arundhati   arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own statements on kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on that basis self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected   ........... aalok aima     http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm   They can file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: Arundhati Roy   Arundhati Roy   My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: Perhaps they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too. Here is what he said about Kashmir:   1. In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian Prime Minister Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said, “I should like to make it clear that the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any way to influence the state to accede to India. Our view which we have repeatedly made public is that the question of accession in any disputed territory or state must be decided in accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this view.” (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK).   2. In other telegram to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir's accession to India was accepted by us at the request of the Maharaja's government and the most numerously representative popular organization in the state which is predominantly Muslim. Even then it was accepted on condition that as soon as law and order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide the question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either Dominion then.” (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947).   Accession issue   3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We are anxious not to finalise anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity to be given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for them ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it has been our policy that where there is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the accession must be made by the people of that state. It is in accordance with this policy that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of Kashmir.”   4. In another broadcast to the nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is ultimately to be decided by the people. That pledge we have given not only to the people of Kashmir and to the world. We will not and cannot back out of it.”   5. In his letter No. 368 Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “I have repeatedly stated that as soon as peace and order have been established, Kashmir should decide of accession by Plebiscite or referendum under international auspices such as those of United Nations.”   U.N. supervision   6.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “In order to establish our bona fide, we have suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their future, this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations Organisation. The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people.”   7.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, 1948, Pandit Nehru said, “Even at the moment of accession, we went out of our way to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide by the will of the people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or referendum. We insisted further that the Government of Kashmir must immediately become a popular government. We have adhered to that position throughout and we are prepared to have a Plebiscite with every protection of fair voting and to abide by the decision of the people of Kashmir.”   Referendum or plebiscite   8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as reported by the daily ‘Statesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit Nehru stated, “India has repeatedly offered to work with the United Nations reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to express their will and is always ready to do so. We have always right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, has first of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and secondly, as between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) have reached a great deal of agreement already. What I mean is that many basic features have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the people of Kashmir who must decide for themselves about their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that even without our agreement no country is going to hold on to Kashmir against the will of the Kashmiris.”   9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th July, 1951 as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual existence and its people must be the final arbiters of their future. It is here today that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in the battlefield but in the minds of men.”   10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, “The Government of India not only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible.”   Word of honour   11.As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on 2nd January, 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's question in the Indian Legislature as to what the Congress Government going to do about one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful solution. As a great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left the question for final solution to the people of Kashmir and we are determined to abide by their decision.”   12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, Pandit Nehru said, “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic proposition that the future of Kashmir is going to be decided finally by the goodwill and pleasure of her people. The goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is of no importance in this matter, not because this Parliament does not have the strength to decide the question of Kashmir but because any kind of imposition would be against the principles that this Parliament holds. Kashmir is very close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not wish to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep them against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to stress that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the future of Kashmir. It is not that we have merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is borne out by the policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and expense and in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if it was made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose ourselves on them on the point of the bayonet.”   Kashmir's soul   13.In his statement in the Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as published in Hindustan Times New Delhi on Ist April, 1955, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir is perhaps the most difficult of all these problems between India and Pakistan. We should also remember that Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir.”   14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part in debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon said, “So far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the statements that I have made in this council which can be interpreted to mean that we will not honour international obligations. I want to say for the purpose of the record that there is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of India or the Union of India will dishonour any international obligations it has undertaken.” From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 00:21:04 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:21:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alok, before you go into the so called stupidity of Roy, have you ever thought about the stupidity of GOI;s Home Minister who is/was begging for an appointment with SAS Geelani, so how to laugh on this sedition charge. Well, about Nehru's treatment of Kashmir... is genesis of all the mess which he created, and how to convince the people of India that he arrested Sheikh Mohd Abdullah for 11 long years without any charges , and then his daughter ( inheritor of power ) enters into an accord with sheikh, He was obviously made to take the chair of CM before he fought elections even. the list is long, and best of wishes for this Delhi courts stupid order which will be finally dismissed in the Supreme Court best is On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the state" > > has the court asked the police to file an FIR against arundhati roy for 'waging war against the state' or is arundhati trifling with facts? > > the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in the seminar on 21/10/2010  ........ it does not say anything about 'waging war against the state' > > it is another thing that arundhati roy's utterance could be interpreted as 'waging war against the state' > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or that a court of law should be approached with the complaint that delhi police have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' by arundhati (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted below from 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on kashmir with those of nehru on kashmir and suggests that delhi police "should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > (her statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a regurgitation of what has since long been put forward as arguments by the secessionist and secession supporting propaganda machines ...... geelani also used the quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about kashmir > > in comparing her utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy gives us a list of 13 quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna menon) > > what arundhati roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the position of goi (and of nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k to india as confirmedly final (in what goi considers as fulfilling it's part of the un resolution on kashmir) is on the basis of the ratification of j&k's accession to india by the constituent assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru statements nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that ratification date of 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the status of j&k with respect to india was subjected to a lot of questioning (including the un resolution) and nehru acknowledged that as is reflected in his statements > > after the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, goi treated the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable and nehru did not make any statement that carried the vein of the statements 1 to 12 quoted by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own statements on kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on that basis self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok aima > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > They can file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: Arundhati Roy > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: Perhaps they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian Prime Minister Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said, “I should like to make it clear that the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any way to influence the state to accede to India. Our view which we have repeatedly made public is that the question of accession in any disputed territory or state must be decided in accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this view.” (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other telegram to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir's accession to India was accepted by us at the request of the Maharaja's government and the most numerously representative popular organization in the state which is predominantly Muslim. Even then it was accepted on condition that as soon as law and order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide the question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either Dominion then.” (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > Accession issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We are anxious not to finalise anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity to be given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for them ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it has been our policy that where there is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the accession must be made by the people of that state. It is in accordance with this policy that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of Kashmir.” > > 4. In another broadcast to the nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is ultimately to be decided by the people. That pledge we have given not only to the people of Kashmir and to the world. We will not and cannot back out of it.” > > 5. In his letter No. 368 Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “I have repeatedly stated that as soon as peace and order have been established, Kashmir should decide of accession by Plebiscite or referendum under international auspices such as those of United Nations.” > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “In order to establish our bona fide, we have suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their future, this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations Organisation. The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people.” > > 7.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, 1948, Pandit Nehru said, “Even at the moment of accession, we went out of our way to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide by the will of the people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or referendum. We insisted further that the Government of Kashmir must immediately become a popular government. We have adhered to that position throughout and we are prepared to have a Plebiscite with every protection of fair voting and to abide by the decision of the people of Kashmir.” > > Referendum or plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as reported by the daily ‘Statesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit Nehru stated, “India has repeatedly offered to work with the United Nations reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to express their will and is always ready to do so. We have always right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, has first of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and secondly, as between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) have reached a great deal of agreement already. What I mean is that many basic features have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the people of Kashmir who must decide for themselves about >  their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that even without our agreement no country is going to hold on to Kashmir against the will of the Kashmiris.” > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th July, 1951 as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual existence and its people must be the final arbiters of their future. It is here today that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in the battlefield but in the minds of men.” > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, “The Government of India not only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible.” > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on 2nd January, 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's question in the Indian Legislature as to what the Congress Government going to do about one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful solution. As a great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left the question for final solution to the people of Kashmir and we are determined to abide by their decision.” > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, Pandit Nehru said, “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic proposition that the future of Kashmir is going to be decided finally by the goodwill and pleasure of her people. The goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is of no importance in this matter, not because this Parliament does not have the strength to decide the question of Kashmir but because any kind of imposition would be against the principles that this Parliament holds. Kashmir is very close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not wish to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep them against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to stress that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the future of Kashmir. It is not that we have >  merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is borne out by the policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and expense and in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if it was made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose ourselves on them on the point of the bayonet.” > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement in the Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as published in Hindustan Times New Delhi on Ist April, 1955, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir is perhaps the most difficult of all these problems between India and Pakistan. We should also remember that Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir.” > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part in debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon said, “So far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the statements that I have made in this council which can be interpreted to mean that we will not honour international obligations. I want to say for the purpose of the record that there is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of India or the Union of India will dishonour any international obligations it has undertaken.” > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 00:43:43 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:43:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Take a walk Inder Salim. Living in a fool's paradise has become a hobby for few writers on sarai. Arundhati Roy is a limousine liberal who has a problem for every solution! Travels first-class & pretends to care for the poor! Illegally occupies tribal land and talks about rights of Maoists and Communal Separatists! Wake up to these anti-India rants! Or you will get entangled in your own web of worms. We know who has shown 'stupidity' at a time of sagging career in writing. You might use abuse against Court Order here on Sarai. But, have some balls to come in front of the court and do the same! Yep, consider that a dare! Call Geelani or Roy for help! On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Inder Salim wrote: > Alok, before you go into the so called stupidity of Roy, have you ever > thought about the stupidity of GOI;s Home Minister who is/was begging > for an appointment with SAS Geelani, so how to laugh on this sedition > charge. > > Well, about Nehru's treatment of Kashmir... is genesis of all the mess > which he created, and how to convince the people of India that he > arrested Sheikh Mohd Abdullah for 11 long years without any charges , > and then his daughter ( inheritor of power ) enters into an accord > with sheikh, He was obviously made to take the chair of CM before he > fought elections even. > > the list is long, and best of wishes for this Delhi courts stupid > order which will be finally dismissed in the Supreme Court > > best > is > > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi > Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the state" > > > > has the court asked the police to file an FIR against arundhati roy for > 'waging war against the state' or is arundhati trifling with facts? > > > > the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi > police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" > against some named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches > made in the seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about > 'waging war against the state' > > > > it is another thing that arundhati roy's utterance could be interpreted > as 'waging war against the state' > > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find unacceptable > that someone should seek prosecution against her or that a court of law > should be approached with the complaint that delhi police have not taken > cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' by arundhati (amongst others) > > > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted below from 'the > hindu') > > > > she seeks to compare her statements on kashmir with those of nehru on > kashmir and suggests that delhi police "should posthumously file a charge > against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > > > (her statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a regurgitation of > what has since long been put forward as arguments by the secessionist and > secession supporting propaganda machines ...... geelani also used the > quotes just a few days back) > > > > this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she > knows about kashmir > > > > in comparing her utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy gives us a > list of 13 quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna menon) > > > > what arundhati roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the position of > goi (and of nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k to india as > confirmedly final (in what goi considers as fulfilling it's part of the un > resolution on kashmir) is on the basis of the ratification of j&k's > accession to india by the constituent assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > > > the nehru statements nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the status of j&k > with respect to india was subjected to a lot of questioning (including the > un resolution) and nehru acknowledged that as is reflected in his statements > > > > after the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, goi > treated the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable and nehru did > not make any statement that carried the vein of the statements 1 to 12 > quoted by arundhati > > > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own statements on kashmir > with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on that basis self-righteously > suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then nehru (posthumously) should > also be prosected > > > > ........... aalok aima > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > > > They can file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati Roy > > > > Arundhati Roy > > > > My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to file an > FIR against me for waging war against the state: Perhaps they should > posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too. Here is what he > said about Kashmir: > > > > 1. In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian Prime > Minister Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said, “I should like to make it clear that > the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any way > to influence the state to accede to India. Our view which we have repeatedly > made public is that the question of accession in any disputed territory or > state must be decided in accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to > this view.” (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > > > 2. In other telegram to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir's > accession to India was accepted by us at the request of the Maharaja's > government and the most numerously representative popular organization in > the state which is predominantly Muslim. Even then it was accepted on > condition that as soon as law and order had been restored, the people of > Kashmir would decide the question of accession. It is open to them to accede > to either Dominion then.” (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > > > Accession issue > > > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd November, > 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We are anxious not to finalise anything in a > moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity to be given to the > people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for them ultimately to decide > ------ And let me make it clear that it has been our policy that where there > is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the > accession must be made by the people of that state. It is in accordance with > this policy that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.” > > > > 4. In another broadcast to the nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru > said, “We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is ultimately to be decided > by the people. That pledge we have given not only to the people of Kashmir > and to the world. We will not and cannot back out of it.” > > > > 5. In his letter No. 368 Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed to the > PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “I have repeatedly stated that as soon as > peace and order have been established, Kashmir should decide of accession by > Plebiscite or referendum under international auspices such as those of > United Nations.” > > > > U.N. supervision > > > > 6.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th November, > 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “In order to establish our bona fide, we have > suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their future, > this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such as > the United Nations Organisation. The issue in Kashmir is whether violence > and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people.” > > > > 7.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, 1948, > Pandit Nehru said, “Even at the moment of accession, we went out of our way > to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide by the will of the > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or referendum. We insisted > further that the Government of Kashmir must immediately become a popular > government. We have adhered to that position throughout and we are prepared > to have a Plebiscite with every protection of fair voting and to abide by > the decision of the people of Kashmir.” > > > > Referendum or plebiscite > > > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as reported by > the daily ‘Statesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit Nehru stated, “India has > repeatedly offered to work with the United Nations reasonable safeguards to > enable the people of Kashmir to express their will and is always ready to do > so. We have always right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir > people deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, has first > of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and secondly, as > between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must be remembered that we > (India and Pakistan) have reached a great deal of agreement already. What I > mean is that many basic features have been thrashed out. We all agreed that > it is the people of Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > > their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that even > without our agreement no country is going to hold on to Kashmir against the > will of the Kashmiris.” > > > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th July, 1951 as > published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, Pandit Nehru said, > “Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for India or Pakistan. > People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a commodity for sale or to be > bartered. It has an individual existence and its people must be the final > arbiters of their future. It is here today that a struggle is bearing fruit, > not in the battlefield but in the minds of men.” > > > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. representative, > Pandit Nehru wrote, “The Government of India not only reaffirms its > acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of > the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the > democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of > the United Nations but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a > plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible.” > > > > Word of honour > > > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on 2nd January, 1952, > while replying to Dr. Mookerji's question in the Indian Legislature as to > what the Congress Government going to do about one third of territory still > held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “is not the property of either India or > Pakistan. It belongs to the Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, > we made it clear to the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would > ultimately abide by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk > out, I would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful solution. As a > great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left the question for final > solution to the people of Kashmir and we are determined to abide by their > decision.” > > > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, Pandit > Nehru said, “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic proposition that > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided finally by the goodwill and > pleasure of her people. The goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is of > no importance in this matter, not because this Parliament does not have the > strength to decide the question of Kashmir but because any kind of > imposition would be against the principles that this Parliament holds. > Kashmir is very close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or > adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not wish to > remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep them against > their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to stress that it is > only the people of Kashmir who can decide the future of Kashmir. It is not > that we have > > merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of Kashmir, it > is our conviction and one that is borne out by the policy that we have > pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. Though these five years have > meant a lot of trouble and expense and in spite of all we have done, we > would willingly leave if it was made clear to us that the people of Kashmir > wanted us to go. However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to > stay against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose ourselves > on them on the point of the bayonet.” > > > > Kashmir's soul > > > > 13.In his statement in the Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as published in > Hindustan Times New Delhi on Ist April, 1955, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir is > perhaps the most difficult of all these problems between India and Pakistan. > We should also remember that Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between > India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its > own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of > Kashmir.” > > > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part in debate > on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on 24th January, > 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon said, “So far as we are > concerned, there is not one word in the statements that I have made in this > council which can be interpreted to mean that we will not honour > international obligations. I want to say for the purpose of the record that > there is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of India or the > Union of India will dishonour any international obligations it has > undertaken.” > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 00:51:09 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:51:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dont burn mid night oil mr. Kaul both you and me dont count See the game of politics see how it shapes, in Kashmir it is people's game and how you book all the people there or you consider yourself that one can say thing in Kashmir but not in Delhi, since it is India and that is not just see the difference ( not by the size of balls but by wits ) best love is On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Take a walk Inder Salim. Living in a fool's paradise has become a hobby for > few writers on sarai. > > Arundhati Roy is a limousine liberal who has a problem for every solution! > > Travels first-class & pretends to care for the poor! > > Illegally occupies tribal land and talks about rights of Maoists and > Communal Separatists! > > Wake up to these anti-India rants! Or you will get entangled in your own web > of worms. > > We know who has shown 'stupidity' at a time of sagging career in writing. > > You might use abuse against Court Order here on Sarai. But, have some balls > to come in front of the court and do the same! Yep, consider that a dare! > Call Geelani or Roy for help! > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Inder Salim wrote: > >> Alok, before you go into the so called stupidity of Roy, have you ever >> thought about the stupidity of GOI;s Home Minister who is/was begging >> for an appointment with SAS Geelani,  so how to laugh on this sedition >> charge. >> >> Well, about Nehru's treatment of Kashmir... is genesis of all the mess >> which he created, and how to convince the people of India that he >> arrested Sheikh Mohd Abdullah for 11 long years without any charges , >> and then his daughter ( inheritor of power ) enters into an accord >> with sheikh, He was obviously made to take the chair of CM before he >> fought elections even. >> >> the list is long, and best of wishes for this Delhi courts stupid >> order which will be finally dismissed in the Supreme Court >> >> best >> is >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: >> > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi >> Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the state" >> > >> > has the court asked the police to file an FIR against arundhati roy for >> 'waging war against the state' or is arundhati trifling with facts? >> > >> > the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi >> police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" >> against some named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches >> made in the seminar on 21/10/2010  ........ it does not say anything about >> 'waging war against the state' >> > >> > it is another thing that arundhati roy's utterance could be interpreted >> as 'waging war against the state' >> > >> > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find unacceptable >> that someone should seek prosecution against her or that a court of law >> should be approached with the complaint that delhi police have not taken >> cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' by arundhati (amongst others) >> > >> > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted below from 'the >> hindu') >> > >> > she seeks to compare her statements on kashmir with those of nehru on >> kashmir and suggests that delhi police "should posthumously file a charge >> against Jawaharlal Nehru too" >> > >> > (her statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a regurgitation of >> what has since long been put forward as arguments by the secessionist and >> secession supporting propaganda machines ...... geelani also used the >> quotes just a few days back) >> > >> > this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she >> knows about kashmir >> > >> > in comparing her utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy gives us a >> list of 13 quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna menon) >> > >> > what arundhati roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the position of >> goi (and of nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k to india as >> confirmedly final (in what goi considers as fulfilling it's part of the un >> resolution on kashmir) is on the basis of the ratification of j&k's >> accession to india by the constituent assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 >> > >> > the nehru statements nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that >> ratification date of 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the status of j&k >> with respect to india was subjected to a lot of questioning (including the >> un resolution) and nehru acknowledged that as is reflected in his statements >> > >> > after the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, goi >> treated the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable and nehru did >> not make any statement that carried the vein of the statements 1 to 12 >> quoted by arundhati >> > >> > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own statements on kashmir >> with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on that basis self-righteously >> suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then nehru (posthumously) should >> also be prosected >> > >> > ........... aalok aima >> > >> > >> > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm >> > >> > They can file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: >> Arundhati Roy >> > >> > Arundhati Roy >> > >> > My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to file an >> FIR against me for waging war against the state: Perhaps they should >> posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too. Here is what he >> said about Kashmir: >> > >> > 1. In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian Prime >> Minister Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said, “I should like to make it clear that >> the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any way >> to influence the state to accede to India. Our view which we have repeatedly >> made public is that the question of accession in any disputed territory or >> state must be decided in accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to >> this view.” (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of >> Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). >> > >> > 2. In other telegram to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir's >> accession to India was accepted by us at the request of the Maharaja's >> government and the most numerously representative popular organization in >> the state which is predominantly Muslim. Even then it was accepted on >> condition that as soon as law and order had been restored, the people of >> Kashmir would decide the question of accession. It is open to them to accede >> to either Dominion then.” (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). >> > >> > Accession issue >> > >> > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd November, >> 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We are anxious not to finalise anything in a >> moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity to be given to the >> people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for them ultimately to decide >> ------ And let me make it clear that it has been our policy that where there >> is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the >> accession must be made by the people of that state. It is in accordance with >> this policy that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of >> Kashmir.” >> > >> > 4. In another broadcast to the nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru >> said, “We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is ultimately to be decided >> by the people. That pledge we have given not only to the people of Kashmir >> and to the world. We will not and cannot back out of it.” >> > >> > 5. In his letter No. 368 Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed to the >> PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “I have repeatedly stated that as soon as >> peace and order have been established, Kashmir should decide of accession by >> Plebiscite or referendum under international auspices such as those of >> United Nations.” >> > >> > U.N. supervision >> > >> > 6.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th November, >> 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “In order to establish our bona fide, we have >> suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their future, >> this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such as >> the United Nations Organisation. The issue in Kashmir is whether violence >> and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people.” >> > >> > 7.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, 1948, >> Pandit Nehru said, “Even at the moment of accession, we went out of our way >> to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide by the will of the >> people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or referendum. We insisted >> further that the Government of Kashmir must immediately become a popular >> government. We have adhered to that position throughout and we are prepared >> to have a Plebiscite with every protection of fair voting and to abide by >> the decision of the people of Kashmir.” >> > >> > Referendum or plebiscite >> > >> > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as reported by >> the daily ‘Statesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit Nehru stated, “India has >> repeatedly offered to work with the United Nations reasonable safeguards to >> enable the people of Kashmir to express their will and is always ready to do >> so. We have always right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir >> people deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was >> our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. >> Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, has first >> of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and secondly, as >> between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must be remembered that we >> (India and Pakistan) have reached a great deal of agreement already. What I >> mean is that many basic features have been thrashed out. We all agreed that >> it is the people of Kashmir who must decide for themselves about >> >  their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that even >> without our agreement no country is going to hold on to Kashmir against the >> will of the Kashmiris.” >> > >> > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th July, 1951 as >> published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, Pandit Nehru said, >> “Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for India or Pakistan. >> People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a commodity for sale or to be >> bartered. It has an individual existence and its people must be the final >> arbiters of their future. It is here today that a struggle is bearing fruit, >> not in the battlefield but in the minds of men.” >> > >> > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. representative, >> Pandit Nehru wrote, “The Government of India not only reaffirms its >> acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of >> the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the >> democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of >> the United Nations but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a >> plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible.” >> > >> > Word of honour >> > >> > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on 2nd January, 1952, >> while replying to Dr. Mookerji's question in the Indian Legislature as to >> what the Congress Government going to do about one third of territory still >> held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “is not the property of either India or >> Pakistan. It belongs to the Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, >> we made it clear to the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would >> ultimately abide by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk >> out, I would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to >> United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful solution. As a >> great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left the question for final >> solution to the people of Kashmir and we are determined to abide by their >> decision.” >> > >> > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, Pandit >> Nehru said, “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic proposition that >> the future of Kashmir is going to be decided finally by the goodwill and >> pleasure of her people. The goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is of >> no importance in this matter, not because this Parliament does not have the >> strength to decide the question of Kashmir but because any kind of >> imposition would be against the principles that this Parliament holds. >> Kashmir is very close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or >> adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a >> pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not wish to >> remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep them against >> their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to stress that it is >> only the people of Kashmir who can decide the future of Kashmir. It is not >> that we have >> >  merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of Kashmir, it >> is our conviction and one that is borne out by the policy that we have >> pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. Though these five years have >> meant a lot of trouble and expense and in spite of all we have done, we >> would willingly leave if it was made clear to us that the people of Kashmir >> wanted us to go. However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to >> stay against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose ourselves >> on them on the point of the bayonet.” >> > >> > Kashmir's soul >> > >> > 13.In his statement in the Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as published in >> Hindustan Times New Delhi on Ist April, 1955, Pandit Nehru said, “Kashmir is >> perhaps the most difficult of all these problems between India and Pakistan. >> We should also remember that Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between >> India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its >> own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of >> Kashmir.” >> > >> > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part in debate >> on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on 24th January, >> 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon said, “So far as we are >> concerned, there is not one word in the statements that I have made in this >> council which can be interpreted to mean that we will not honour >> international obligations. I want to say for the purpose of the record that >> there is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India >> which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of India or the >> Union of India will dishonour any international obligations it has >> undertaken.” >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > India Editor > The Indian, Australia > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 00:56:03 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:56:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In Indian Democracy, you and me count. In Separatist Islamic Kashmir, we don't. Option is yours. Eyes too. Don't be blinded by mobsters and killers of Kashmir. Or have you already decided yo pick up AK-47? On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Inder Salim wrote: > Dont burn mid night oil mr. Kaul > both you and me dont count > See the game of politics > > see how it shapes, > in Kashmir it is people's game > and how you book all the people there > > or you consider yourself that one can say thing in Kashmir > but not in Delhi, since it is India and that is not > > just see the difference ( not by the size of balls but by wits ) > > best > love > is > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Take a walk Inder Salim. Living in a fool's paradise has become a hobby > for > > few writers on sarai. > > > > Arundhati Roy is a limousine liberal who has a problem for every > solution! > > > > Travels first-class & pretends to care for the poor! > > > > Illegally occupies tribal land and talks about rights of Maoists and > > Communal Separatists! > > > > Wake up to these anti-India rants! Or you will get entangled in your own > web > > of worms. > > > > We know who has shown 'stupidity' at a time of sagging career in writing. > > > > You might use abuse against Court Order here on Sarai. But, have some > balls > > to come in front of the court and do the same! Yep, consider that a dare! > > Call Geelani or Roy for help! > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Inder Salim > wrote: > > > >> Alok, before you go into the so called stupidity of Roy, have you ever > >> thought about the stupidity of GOI;s Home Minister who is/was begging > >> for an appointment with SAS Geelani, so how to laugh on this sedition > >> charge. > >> > >> Well, about Nehru's treatment of Kashmir... is genesis of all the mess > >> which he created, and how to convince the people of India that he > >> arrested Sheikh Mohd Abdullah for 11 long years without any charges , > >> and then his daughter ( inheritor of power ) enters into an accord > >> with sheikh, He was obviously made to take the chair of CM before he > >> fought elections even. > >> > >> the list is long, and best of wishes for this Delhi courts stupid > >> order which will be finally dismissed in the Supreme Court > >> > >> best > >> is > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima > wrote: > >> > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi > >> Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the state" > >> > > >> > has the court asked the police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for > >> 'waging war against the state' or is arundhati trifling with facts? > >> > > >> > the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi > >> police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal > Code" > >> against some named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their > speeches > >> made in the seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything > about > >> 'waging war against the state' > >> > > >> > it is another thing that arundhati roy's utterance could be > interpreted > >> as 'waging war against the state' > >> > > >> > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > unacceptable > >> that someone should seek prosecution against her or that a court of law > >> should be approached with the complaint that delhi police have not taken > >> cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' by arundhati (amongst others) > >> > > >> > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted below from 'the > >> hindu') > >> > > >> > she seeks to compare her statements on kashmir with those of nehru on > >> kashmir and suggests that delhi police "should posthumously file a > charge > >> against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > >> > > >> > (her statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a regurgitation > of > >> what has since long been put forward as arguments by the secessionist > and > >> secession supporting propaganda machines ...... geelani also used the > >> quotes just a few days back) > >> > > >> > this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she > >> knows about kashmir > >> > > >> > in comparing her utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy gives > us a > >> list of 13 quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna menon) > >> > > >> > what arundhati roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the position > of > >> goi (and of nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k to india as > >> confirmedly final (in what goi considers as fulfilling it's part of the > un > >> resolution on kashmir) is on the basis of the ratification of j&k's > >> accession to india by the constituent assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > >> > > >> > the nehru statements nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > >> ratification date of 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the status of > j&k > >> with respect to india was subjected to a lot of questioning (including > the > >> un resolution) and nehru acknowledged that as is reflected in his > statements > >> > > >> > after the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, goi > >> treated the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable and nehru > did > >> not make any statement that carried the vein of the statements 1 to 12 > >> quoted by arundhati > >> > > >> > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own statements on > kashmir > >> with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on that basis > self-righteously > >> suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then nehru (posthumously) > should > >> also be prosected > >> > > >> > ........... aalok aima > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > >> > > >> > They can file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > >> Arundhati Roy > >> > > >> > Arundhati Roy > >> > > >> > My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to file > an > >> FIR against me for waging war against the state: Perhaps they should > >> posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too. Here is what he > >> said about Kashmir: > >> > > >> > 1. In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian Prime > >> Minister Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said, “I should like to make it clear > that > >> the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any > way > >> to influence the state to accede to India. Our view which we have > repeatedly > >> made public is that the question of accession in any disputed territory > or > >> state must be decided in accordance with wishes of people and we adhere > to > >> this view.” (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > >> Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > >> > > >> > 2. In other telegram to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > “Kashmir's > >> accession to India was accepted by us at the request of the Maharaja's > >> government and the most numerously representative popular organization > in > >> the state which is predominantly Muslim. Even then it was accepted on > >> condition that as soon as law and order had been restored, the people of > >> Kashmir would decide the question of accession. It is open to them to > accede > >> to either Dominion then.” (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > >> > > >> > Accession issue > >> > > >> > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd > November, > >> 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We are anxious not to finalise anything in a > >> moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity to be given to the > >> people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for them ultimately to decide > >> ------ And let me make it clear that it has been our policy that where > there > >> is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the > >> accession must be made by the people of that state. It is in accordance > with > >> this policy that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession > of > >> Kashmir.” > >> > > >> > 4. In another broadcast to the nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru > >> said, “We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is ultimately to be > decided > >> by the people. That pledge we have given not only to the people of > Kashmir > >> and to the world. We will not and cannot back out of it.” > >> > > >> > 5. In his letter No. 368 Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed to > the > >> PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “I have repeatedly stated that as > soon as > >> peace and order have been established, Kashmir should decide of > accession by > >> Plebiscite or referendum under international auspices such as those of > >> United Nations.” > >> > > >> > U.N. supervision > >> > > >> > 6.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, > >> 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “In order to establish our bona fide, we have > >> suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their > future, > >> this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such > as > >> the United Nations Organisation. The issue in Kashmir is whether > violence > >> and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people.” > >> > > >> > 7.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, > >> Pandit Nehru said, “Even at the moment of accession, we went out of our > way > >> to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide by the will of the > >> people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or referendum. We insisted > >> further that the Government of Kashmir must immediately become a popular > >> government. We have adhered to that position throughout and we are > prepared > >> to have a Plebiscite with every protection of fair voting and to abide > by > >> the decision of the people of Kashmir.” > >> > > >> > Referendum or plebiscite > >> > > >> > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as reported > by > >> the daily ‘Statesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit Nehru stated, “India > has > >> repeatedly offered to work with the United Nations reasonable safeguards > to > >> enable the people of Kashmir to express their will and is always ready > to do > >> so. We have always right from the beginning accepted the idea of the > Kashmir > >> people deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this > was > >> our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. > >> Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, has > first > >> of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and secondly, as > >> between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must be remembered > that we > >> (India and Pakistan) have reached a great deal of agreement already. > What I > >> mean is that many basic features have been thrashed out. We all agreed > that > >> it is the people of Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > >> > their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even > >> without our agreement no country is going to hold on to Kashmir against > the > >> will of the Kashmiris.” > >> > > >> > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th July, 1951 as > >> published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, Pandit Nehru > said, > >> “Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for India or Pakistan. > >> People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a commodity for sale or to be > >> bartered. It has an individual existence and its people must be the > final > >> arbiters of their future. It is here today that a struggle is bearing > fruit, > >> not in the battlefield but in the minds of men.” > >> > > >> > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. representative, > >> Pandit Nehru wrote, “The Government of India not only reaffirms its > >> acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing > accession of > >> the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the > >> democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices > of > >> the United Nations but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such > a > >> plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible.” > >> > > >> > Word of honour > >> > > >> > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, > >> while replying to Dr. Mookerji's question in the Indian Legislature as > to > >> what the Congress Government going to do about one third of territory > still > >> held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “is not the property of either > India or > >> Pakistan. It belongs to the Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to > India, > >> we made it clear to the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would > >> ultimately abide by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to > walk > >> out, I would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > >> United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful solution. As > a > >> great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left the question for > final > >> solution to the people of Kashmir and we are determined to abide by > their > >> decision.” > >> > > >> > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > Pandit > >> Nehru said, “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic proposition > that > >> the future of Kashmir is going to be decided finally by the goodwill and > >> pleasure of her people. The goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is > of > >> no importance in this matter, not because this Parliament does not have > the > >> strength to decide the question of Kashmir but because any kind of > >> imposition would be against the principles that this Parliament holds. > >> Kashmir is very close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or > >> adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a > >> pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not wish > to > >> remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep them against > >> their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to stress that it is > >> only the people of Kashmir who can decide the future of Kashmir. It is > not > >> that we have > >> > merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of Kashmir, > it > >> is our conviction and one that is borne out by the policy that we have > >> pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. Though these five years > have > >> meant a lot of trouble and expense and in spite of all we have done, we > >> would willingly leave if it was made clear to us that the people of > Kashmir > >> wanted us to go. However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going > to > >> stay against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves > >> on them on the point of the bayonet.” > >> > > >> > Kashmir's soul > >> > > >> > 13.In his statement in the Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as published > in > >> Hindustan Times New Delhi on Ist April, 1955, Pandit Nehru said, > “Kashmir is > >> perhaps the most difficult of all these problems between India and > Pakistan. > >> We should also remember that Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied > between > >> India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of > its > >> own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people > of > >> Kashmir.” > >> > > >> > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part in > debate > >> on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on 24th January, > >> 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon said, “So far as we > are > >> concerned, there is not one word in the statements that I have made in > this > >> council which can be interpreted to mean that we will not honour > >> international obligations. I want to say for the purpose of the record > that > >> there is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India > >> which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of India or > the > >> Union of India will dishonour any international obligations it has > >> undertaken.” > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > India Editor > > The Indian, Australia > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From epk at xs4all.nl Mon Nov 29 01:51:55 2010 From: epk at xs4all.nl (Eric Kluitenberg) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:21:55 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Distance versus Desire - Clearing the ElectroSmog Message-ID: Editorial notice: This text was written for the upcoming issue in the Acoustic Space series (No.8), co-published by RIXC centre for new media culture in Riga and the Art Research Lab of Liepaja University: "Following the theme of ENERGY this issue will look at different social and cultural aspects of energy in the contemporary human society. It will also investigate the notion of 'sustainability' from various perspectives - artistic, scientific, technological, architectural, environmental." (More info soon at the RIXC on-line store: http://rixc.lv/kiosks/ ) The text is an extended version of a talk given at Impakt Festival 2010 "Matrix City", in Utrecht as part of the Superstructural Dependencies Conference, October 15, 2010. ( www.impakt.nl/index.php/festival/Conferentie_superstructuraldependen ) The on-line release of this new essay coincides with the official launch of the documentation resources resulting from the ElectroSmog Festival for Sustainable Immobility, including all full-length webcasts, brought together in an overview page at: www.electrosmogfestival.net/documentation The ElectroSmog festival was organised in March 2010 and organised distributed over 8 main locations and a host of other connected sites, interconnected via internet. The festival was co-ordinated from De Balie, centre for culture and politics in Amsterdam, and execiuted with the following partners: ADA – Aotearoa Digital Arts Network, New Zealand / Banff New Media Institute, Banff / Chelsea College of Art and Design, London / Cool Mediators Foundation, Amsterdam / Engage! Tactical Media, Utrecht / Eyebeam – Art + Technology Center, New York / Floss Manuals – Free Manuals for Free Software, (international network) / The Green Bench, Whanganui, New Zealand / Hivos – Humanist Institute for development Cooperation, The Netherlands / Medialab Prado, Madrid / m-cult- centre for new media culture, Helsinki / Muffatwerk – International Center for Arts and Culture, Munich / REFRAMES, Munich / RIXC – Centre for New Media Culture, Riga. The radical premise of the festival was to create a truly international event without anybody travelling or moving around. We found out, however, that our reliance on telepresence technologies proved a hard bargain for an international audience event (festival). This essay reflects on the outcomes of the festival and its implications for the telepresence ideology. Enjoy! Eric ------------ Distance versus Desire Clearing the ElectroSmog The desire to transcend distance and separation has accompanied the history of media technology for many centuries. Various attempts to realise the demand for a presence from a distance have produced beautiful imaginaries such as those of telepresence and ubiquity, the electronic cottage and the reinvigoration of the oikos, and certainly not least among them the reduction of physical mobility in favour of an ecologically more sustainable connected life style. As current systems of hyper-mobility are confronted with an unfolding energy crisis and collide with severe ecological limits - most prominently in the intense debate on global warming - citizens and organisations in advanced and emerging economies alike are forced to reconsider one of the most daring projects of the information age: that a radical reduction of physical mobility is possible through the use of advanced telepresence technologies. ElectroSmog and the quest for a sustainable immobility The ElectroSmog festival for ‘sustainable immobility’, staged in March 2010 [1], was both an exploration of this grand promise of telepresence and a radical attempt to create a new form of public meeting across the globe in real-time. ElectroSmog tried to break with traditional conventions of staging international public festivals and conferences through a set of simple rules: No presenter was allowed to travel across their own regional boundaries to join in any of the public events of the festival, while each event should always be organised in two or more locations at the same time. To enable the traditional functions of a public festival, conversation, encounter, and performance, physical meetings across geographical divides therefore had to be replaced by mediated encounters. The festival was organised at a moment when internet-based techniques of tele-connection, video-telephony, visual multi-user on-line environments, live streams, and various forms of real-time text interfaces had become available for the general public, virtually around the globe. No longer an object of futurology ElectroSmog tried to establish the new critical uses that could be developed with these every day life technologies, especially the new breeds of real-time technologies. The main question here was if a new form of public assembly could emerge from the new distributed space-time configurations that had been the object of heated debates already for so many years? There was a sense of unease when looking back at the bold promises of remoter life and work in the ‘electronic cottage’ that futurologists such as Alvin Toffler spelled out for us in the early 1980s, in books such as “The Third Wave” (the ‘coming information age’ as the third wave, after agricultural and industrial society) [2]. As part of his near-future explorations conducted well before the rise of widespread internet use, Toffler enthusiastically embraced the suggestion that a radical reduction of (physical) mobility would become possible by the rise of ever more sophisticated communication and information technologies and the integration of home and workplace in the electronic cottage. Not only would this transformation, in Toffler’s vision, reap great ecological benefits, it would also initiate a grand revitalisation of the ‘oikos’, the household and the family unit. The electronic cottage should ideally be a real-time connected living and working space, allowing a new kind of digital artisan / entrepreneur to emerge who would be absolved from rush hour-traffic while being ultimately flexible in making his or her own work and private arrangements. The main advantage of the new work/life unit was its inherent efficiency, where meetings would be arranged solely when strictly necessary and flexible according to need and availability of everyone involved in the process. The main element won back from the congested systems of collective work and travel was time. Time that could instead be invested in the ‘oikos‘, the home, family life, and local social relations, that could help to restore the psychic fabric of society, which had become unravelled through the brutal forces of ‘second wave’ grand scale industrial modernisation. Work and life at home could now be brought into unison again. Today, however, more than 25 years after these all bold claims, we can observe exactly the reverse trend: Never before have wo/men travelled more and farther. Not least because of their improved capabilities to keep in touch with the ‘home base’ from afar. With advanced communication techniques work has entered the sphere of private life and mostly diminished the space and time for the oikos. The simultaneous exponential innovation of transport technologies and logistics, in particular in the automobile and aviation industry, have had a cataclysmic effect on this ‘fatal’ trajectory. The system of hyper-mobility has quite literally overheated itself, and seems unstoppably heading for a crash. Even more so, it seems to exhaust itself at an exponential rate. While most people do enjoy living in a global village, few appreciate a forced life in the local village. Rather than moving towards a sustainable immobility, we seem to be heading towards a global ecological disaster scenario. The crucial question for ElectroSmog was whether a critical reconsideration of this idea of a sustainable immobility was possible, both in theoretical and practical terms. Necessity and failure The urgency of the search for alternatives for the current crisis of hyper-mobility was illustrated graphically by the opening conversation of the festival “Global perspectives on the crisis of mobility”. In our first video chat with the crew of Sasahivi media in Nairobi we talked about the daily commute in Kenya’s capital. The city has seen a sharp increase in motorised travel in recent years, leading to over-congested roads and unbearably intense rush hour traffic. To avoid the worst the people at Sasaivi traditionally would leave their homes early in the morning, before rush hour, and return only late, often very late at night. During the day roads were simply too busy. So, how long would a daily commute take? - “about two to three hours”, and what distance would they have to cover? - “about 2,5 to 3 kilometres” (!). Next we connected with Dutch architect Daan Roggeveen who is conducting the research project Go West together with journalist Michiel Hulshof about the development of new metropolises in Central and Western China [3]. They had just come back from a field trip in Wuhan, and Roggeveen explained that they had found that about 500 new cars were entering the streets of Wuhan every day. We then asked him how many cities of similar size were currently present in China, and he replied about 30, not counting Shanghai and Beijing. In short, by a (very) moderate count some 15.000 new cars were entering Chinese roads daily as we spoke. We then listened to a short video message by Partha Pratim Sarker from Dhaka, Bangladesh relating similar experiences and being hopeful that new communication technologies could do something to alleviate the stress of the streets. Next up film maker Aarti Sethi from Delhi told us that by her estimate some 1000 new cars entered Delhi roads every day, especially intensified by the introduction of the Tata, the low cost automobile that obviously replaces many polluting motor-ricksha’s, but still. In a nutshell we received a chilling summary of a global exponential rise of motorised mobility through these first hand reports. With car use, air travel and motorised transportation not diminishing in the developed economies this system of hyper-mobility out of control seems to approach its limits rather sooner than later, and virtually all counter-strategies so far seem entirely ineffective. The Spectre of Imaginary Media Imaginary Media are machines that mediate impossible desires. Imaginary media typically emerge in situations where the living environment imposes inherent limitations that one cannot transcend. The desire to exceed these limitations produces beautiful phantasies, and in the case of imaginary media they are projected onto technological systems - both existent and inexistent - that are supposed to realise what an ordinary human existence is unable to deliver. Imaginary media are the techno-imaginary constructs that populate the domain of impossibility. One manifestation of this desire to transcend the limitations of living experience is the longing for immediate contact across any distance or divide. And it is this desire for a ubiquitous telepresence, replacing the actual presence here and now, more than anything else, that has fuelled the development of new media and communication technologies. This desire is in fact so strong that even in lowest bandwidth environments tremendous investments of mental and emotional energy can be observed, across different technological and historical settings (recent examples are for instance the IRC text chat or SMS text messaging). ‘Signal’ in these case is interpreted as ‘contact’, and a phantasmatic projection of connection and interaction is projected onto the faintest of signals, aided further by the curious emergence of synaesthetic perceptions where minute changes in tone, rhythm or even wording can produce intense bodily sensations and responses. This intermingling of imaginary and actual qualities of connection-media has obscured the discussions about the benefits and limits of telepresence technologies thoroughly. Regardless if one is talking about mobile phone use, deep technological experimentation in telepresence labs, on-line virtual environments of the Second Life type, high powered tele-work centres, or more regular real-time web applications and video chat systems, it seems very difficult to escape this aspect of the phantasmatic. Critical scrutiny, however, needs to cleanse itself from these phantasmatic distortions if it is to get anywhere with its task of establishing clear boundaries and areas of possibility. For ElectroSmog the central question was, can we convene a public event, a festival, with everything you might expect from it, where audiences and presenters from a host of different countries and regions of the earth can meet, interact, encounter, exchange without having to travel outside of their locale? Or in even more mundane terms, can an international festival be staged without anybody travelling and still be a viable public event? And while the technologies used worked fine most of the time, the answer to this central question was clearly “No”. However, this ‘failure’ became clear in a rather surprising way. What the festival showed through its radical approach to this question is that remote connection works excellent in an active network. In situations where connections were established between active contributors to a discussion or project, exchange was often very productive and the experience rewarding for all participants. But when attempts were made to integrate a public of relatively passive observers, the traditional ‘audience’, the experience broke down. Remote connection also did not bring people together locally. The overwhelming sense of all festival events was that in the (remote) communicative process all nodes of the network must be active ‘throughout’. No real sense of co-presence between local audiences in different sites (even though they were often visible and audible to each other) came about, while locally audiences seemed little inspired to physically show up at the networks nodes to witness a process they could also follow from the comfort of their home via the webcast. The interesting question here is why? Could playful interfaces, allowing audiences to interact across different localities have helped to create this sense of co-presence? Certainly it would have helped to create this sense in situations where audiences were actually present in different connected spaces. However, curiously, exactly those programs were generally well visited that showed strong local participation and a minimum (the ‘at least one’ rule) of connected localities. Much can be done to improve the experience, but even in the deliriously transmediated environment of the ElectroSmog central connection node, the theatre space of De Balie in Amsterdam, the energy never entirely seemed to materialise. The rather inevitable conclusion that must be drawn from this is that the idea of a replacement of physical encounters by mediated encounters is simply an illusion. First of all, this mediated encounter denies the unspoken subtle bodily cues that shape actual conversation.The experience of co-presence in the same space is determined by so many perceptible and sub-liminal incentives that digital electronic media do not capture, that the idea of an immersive experience relies more on the phantasmatic cover of these absent cues and the curious human capacity for synaesthetic perception, than on the performative capabilities of the medium. A digital video-link certainly does not replace these subliminal cues. Still, more important for the ultimate failure of the telepresence ideology is that it denies the libidinal drive for encounter, belonging, and identification that is so important for a successful staging of a public event such as an arts and culture festival.There is also a sobering lesson for curators that excellent content and contributors as such do not translate into public success. The desire for sharing the space with others and with the influential in a particular social circle or figuration, is a much stronger motor it seems for public appeal. Remoteness, one of the themes in the festival, cannot be so easily transcended in the telepresence scenario as hoped for. It is this libidinal drive for connection, identification and belonging that propels the development of new media and communication technologies. These technologies are greeted with great enthusiasm as long as they are able to conjure up a phantasmatic image of connectedness that is able to cover ip the lack of actual presence and (physical) contact. However, this phantasmatic projection is never able to displace the feeling of a lack entirely, and thus a surplus desire remains that needs to be satisfied by other means. The consequence is that an intensified use of communication technology does not lead to less, but instead to an increased desire for physical encounter. This observation is also remarkably concurrent with what mobility researchers have concluded about the actual behaviour of people in environments deeply saturated with advanced communication technologies. While some effects can be observed that can lead to a moderation of certain forms of travel and transport (tele work, on-line and phone conferences and so on), the indirect generative effects of these communication media tend to create intensified mobility patterns in these same regions (i.e. not necessarily work of profession related). Communication media serve all kinds of practical purposes, obviously, and also those that can replace the necessity of physical encounter, movement, travel and its associated hassles. There is, however, a point at which the lack presence and contact brings the phantasmatic projection of the technologically enabled communication process to a point of crisis. And this is the moment when people start up the engine of their cars - the moment when the imaginary medium and the libidinal drive meet in a frontal crash. Dilemmas after the crash of media and before the crash of hyper-mobility In all this the urgency of our quest for a sustainable immobility is not lessened. The apparent failure of telepresence technologies leaves us stranded with a huge dilemma. Not to act is really not an option given the intensified pressures of a mobility system out of control. But are there any solutions? Unfortunately there are as yet not too many reasons to be hopeful. The first step forward towards a new more sustainable regime of mobility and connectivity, and a new balance between mobility and immobility, would be not to believe in linear narratives, neither positivistic nor fatalistic. More communication technology does not automatically lead to less physical mobility. But equally, the current systems of hyper-mobility cannot grow at an exponential rate indefinitely. They will encounter new energetic, ecological, and with that also increasingly economic limits. The other observation that mobility researchers generally point to (next to the failure of communication technology) is that price is about the only mechanism that does seem to have a discernible effect on actual (mobility) behaviour. As currently widely used energy systems (fossil fuels) become increasingly scarce, their price will inevitably go up. This will transform mobility from a right (or a perceived right) into a privilege, constructed along the traditional lines of socio-economic segregation (income, profession, class). The struggle over the privileges of mobility and movement will create a new consciousness about their spatial deployment (who is allowed to travel where and by which means?). This new consciousness of segregation will undoubtedly spark conflict and critical debate. The second step would be to accept the need for hybrid and therefore ‘messy’ solutions. The economics of mobility will undoubtedly play an important role in shaping future mobility regimes. The exploration of alternative sources of energy and alternative transportation systems and technologies provide another avenue to look for viable escape routes. The on-going refinement of communication tools, media environments, tele-work arrangements and 21st century electronic cottages and other models of sustainable immobility will also play a role in those situations where practical advantages take priority over the libidinal drive for encounter. (Tele-)Presence researcher Caroline Nevejan emphasises that the new communication technologies do not offer us ideal solutions at all, but they will in the future become increasingly indispensable. [4] The least desirable scenario is that of the crash, the ‘accident-catastrophe’ preprogrammed in current systems of hyper-nobility. Given the tidings from a confused planet rushing at high-speed into a global traffic jam, reported at ElectroSmog, this scenario cannot be excluded from our considerations for now. Eric Kluitenberg Amsterdam, November 2010 Notes: 1 - An overview of documentation resources from the festival can be found at: www.electrosmogfestival.net/documentation  2 - Alvin Toffler, The Third Wave, Bantam Books, New York, 1980. 3 - www.gowestproject.com 4 - See for Nevejan’s research on Witnessed Presence: www.systemsdesign.tbm.tudelft.nl/witness From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Nov 29 07:35:34 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <949028.54386.qm@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8ECD1295-AC5B-4D1B-8E94-E7ECC6DE2D22@sarai.net> Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of Arundhati Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in the seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging war against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes the Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi police is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the next date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an offence was disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections include those relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a section of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same language. Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought remedy under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to 'waging war against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police to look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file their report with reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati Roy refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, me) she is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement faithfully mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, that rather than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with care. Now, as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need for a plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu and Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a posting on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru on the matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on the 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I don't want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, because much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's statement to the Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of February, 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha (Chamber of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, 1954 - “But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance and international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.” 'Every assurance and International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a plebiscite, as mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed that the ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of the popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that "international commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international commitments, which can have been nothing other than the holding of the plebiscite under international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, and only if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, Nehru on the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. Further, On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and five weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in the Indian parliament, says - “Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir.” First of all, Nehru makes a distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, Pakistan and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the entity he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his eyes, (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality of its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing CAN be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". Had Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the ratification of the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, because then we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the constituent assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of the people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. His statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, 1955 a year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K was yet to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is concerned, it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in Arundhati Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in the popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not comfortable for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 comes a year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that Nehru changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post February 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. best Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court asked the police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war against the state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" against some named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches made in the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that arundhati roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the state' > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > that a court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi police have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi police "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > (her statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of what has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist and secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used the quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing her utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of 13 quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what arundhati roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and of nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as confirmedly final (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un resolution on kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession to india by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru statements nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with respect to india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un resolution) and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > after the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi treated the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did not make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to 12 quoted by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on that basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok aima > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > They can file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati Roy > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said, “I should like to make > it clear that the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence the state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made public is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or state must be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this > view.” (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other telegram to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > “Kashmir's accession to India was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and the most numerously representative > popular organization in the state which is predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that as soon as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either > Dominion then.” (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > Accession issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “We are anxious not to finalise > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > to be given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has been our policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a state to either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that state. It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.” > > 4. In another broadcast to the nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, “We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. That pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the world. We will not and > cannot back out of it.” > > 5. In his letter No. 368 Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, “I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and order have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by Plebiscite or referendum under > international auspices such as those of United Nations.” > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, “In order to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the people are given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done under the supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force should > decide the future or the will of the people.” > > 7.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, Pandit Nehru said, “Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our way to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of the people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We insisted further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a popular government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we are prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair voting and to abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.” > > Referendum or plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as > reported by the daily ‘Statesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > Nehru stated, “India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > Nations reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express their will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that many basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without our agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the will of the Kashmiris.” > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, Pandit > Nehru said, “Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > existence and its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here today that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the minds of men.” > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, “The Government of India not > only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as quickly as possible.” > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's question in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going to do about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > “is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final solution to the people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their decision.” > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > Pandit Nehru said, “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > proposition that the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the goodwill and pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this Parliament is of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does not have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any kind of imposition would be > against the principles that this Parliament holds. Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not > wish to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > them against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > stress that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is borne out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if it was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on them on the point of the bayonet.” > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement in the Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New Delhi on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, “Kashmir is perhaps the most difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We should also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India and Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of > Kashmir.” > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > said, “So far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements that I have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that we will not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the purpose of the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any international > obligations it has undertaken.” > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From sen.gargi at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 09:18:19 2010 From: sen.gargi at gmail.com (Gargi Sen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:18:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: <8ECD1295-AC5B-4D1B-8E94-E7ECC6DE2D22@sarai.net> Message-ID: Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving and frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, even as they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the level of the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all they seem to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults and name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a tedious and mediocre level that one despairs. Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of words, all that that lead to the joys of engagement? The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more desirable than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. I hope though not forever. Gargi From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 To: Aalok Aima Cc: sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of Arundhati Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in the seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging war against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes the Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi police is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the next date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an offence was disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections include those relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a section of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same language. Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought remedy under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to 'waging war against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police to look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file their report with reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati Roy refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, me) she is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement faithfully mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, that rather than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with care. Now, as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need for a plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu and Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a posting on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru on the matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on the 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I don't want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, because much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's statement to the Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of February, 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha (Chamber of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, 1954 - ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance and international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every assurance and International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a plebiscite, as mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed that the ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of the popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that "international commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international commitments, which can have been nothing other than the holding of the plebiscite under international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, and only if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, Nehru on the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. Further, On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and five weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in the Indian parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, Pakistan and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the entity he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his eyes, (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality of its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing CAN be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". Had Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the ratification of the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, because then we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the constituent assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of the people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. His statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, 1955 a year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K was yet to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is concerned, it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in Arundhati Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in the popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not comfortable for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 comes a year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that Nehru changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post February 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. best Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file an FIR against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court asked the police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war against the state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police to "lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" against some named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches made in the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that arundhati roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the state' > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > that a court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi police have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi police "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > (her statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of what has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist and secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used the quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing her utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of 13 quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what arundhati roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and of nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as confirmedly final (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un resolution on kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession to india by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru statements nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with respect to india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un resolution) and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > after the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi treated the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did not make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to 12 quoted by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on that basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok aima > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > They can file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati Roy > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said, ³I should like to make > it clear that the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence the state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made public is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or state must be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other telegram to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to India was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and the most numerously representative > popular organization in the state which is predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that as soon as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > Accession issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > to be given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has been our policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a state to either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that state. It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to the nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. That pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the world. We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. 368 Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and order have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by Plebiscite or referendum under > international auspices such as those of United Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³In order to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the people are given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done under the supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force should > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, Pandit Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our way to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of the people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We insisted further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a popular government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we are prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair voting and to abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum or plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > Nehru stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > Nations reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express their will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that many basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without our agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the will of the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > existence and its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here today that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the minds of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as quickly as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's question in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going to do about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final solution to the people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their decision.² > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > Pandit Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > proposition that the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the goodwill and pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this Parliament is of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does not have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any kind of imposition would be > against the principles that this Parliament holds. Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not > wish to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > them against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > stress that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is borne out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if it was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on them on the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement in the Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New Delhi on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the most difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We should also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India and Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > said, ³So far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements that I have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that we will not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the purpose of the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From geetaseshu at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 12:26:47 2010 From: geetaseshu at gmail.com (geeta seshu) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:26:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <8ECD1295-AC5B-4D1B-8E94-E7ECC6DE2D22@sarai.net> Message-ID: I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of debate is truly pathetic. As someone who reads discussions/ debates (but rarely intervenes), I used to get some insights into differing points of view. Please make an effort to bring it back to a more intelligent, even if combative, level. Geeta On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gargi Sen wrote: > Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving and > frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, even as > they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the level of > the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all they > seem > to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults and > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a > tedious > and mediocre level that one despairs. > Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of words, > all that that lead to the joys of engagement? > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more desirable > than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. > I hope though not forever. > Gargi > > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 > To: Aalok Aima > Cc: sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - > comparing > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of Arundhati > Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the directive of > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to "lodge > an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some > named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in > the > seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging war > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes the > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi police > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian > Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the next > date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, > pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an offence was > disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections include > those > relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a > section > of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other > paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same language. > Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought remedy > under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to 'waging war > against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police to > look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file their > report with reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati Roy > refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war > against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, me) > she > is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement > faithfully > mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, that > rather > than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with care. Now, > as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need for a > plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir > following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu and > Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a posting > on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru on > the > matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on the > 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I > don't > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, because > much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's statement to > the > Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of February, > 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha > (Chamber > of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, 1954 - > ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance and > international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every assurance and > International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a plebiscite, as > mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed that > the > ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the > Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of the > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the > Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that "international > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international commitments, > which can have been nothing other than the holding of the plebiscite under > international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, and > only > if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, Nehru > on > the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. Further, > On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and five > weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in the > Indian parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about > between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an > individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and > consent of the people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a > distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, > Pakistan > and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the entity > he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his eyes, > (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality of > its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing CAN > be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". Had > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent of > the > people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the ratification > of > the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and > Kashmir > as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, because then > we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the constituent > assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of the > people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. His > statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, 1955 > a > year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called > 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K was > yet > to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is concerned, > it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the > Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely > resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the people > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in Arundhati > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in the > popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not > comfortable > for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 comes a > year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that Nehru > changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post February > 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is where > arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about > kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. best > Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My > reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file an > FIR > against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court asked the > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war against the > state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police to > "lodge > an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" against some > named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches made in > the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about > 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that arundhati > roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the state' > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > that a > court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi police > have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati > (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement (quoted > below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on > kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi police > "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > > (her > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of what > has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist and > secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used the > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals her > stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing her > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of 13 > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what arundhati > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and of > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as confirmedly final > (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un resolution on > kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession to india > by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru > statements > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of > 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with respect to > india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un > resolution) > and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > after > the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi treated > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did not > make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to 12 > quoted > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own > statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on > that > basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then > > > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok aima > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > They > can > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati Roy > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the Delhi > Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: > Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to the > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit Jawaharlal > Nehru said, ³I should like to make > it clear that the question of aiding > Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence the > state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made public > is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or state > must > be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this > > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other > telegram > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to India > was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and the > most numerously representative > popular organization in the state which > is > predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that as > soon > as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide > the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > Accession > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > to be > given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them > ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has been > our > policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a state to > either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that state. > It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso to the > Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to the > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have declared that > the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. That > pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the world. > We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. 368 > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and order > have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by Plebiscite > or referendum under > international auspices such as those of United > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian > Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³In > order > to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the people are > given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done under the > supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations > Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force > should > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his > statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our way to > make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of the > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We insisted > further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a popular > government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we are > prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair voting and > to > abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum or > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, > as > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > Nehru > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > Nations > reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express their > will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the > beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their fate by > referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long before the > United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision of > the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made basically > by > the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India > directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) > have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that many > basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the > people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their future > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without our > agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the will of > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on 6th > July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for > > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > existence and > its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here today > that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the > minds > of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > only > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > shall be > decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial plebiscite > under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as quickly > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar > Patrika, > Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's > question > in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going to do > about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the > > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > the > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by the > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would have > no > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations and > given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great nation we > cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final solution to > the > people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their decision.² > > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > proposition > that > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the goodwill and > pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this Parliament is > of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does not > have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any kind > of imposition would be > against the principles that this Parliament > holds. > Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or > adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a > > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not > > wish > to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > them > against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > stress > that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of > Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United Nations > and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is borne > out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but > everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and > expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if it > was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > against > the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on them > on > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement in > the > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New Delhi > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the most > difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We should > also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India > and > Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. > Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking part > in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on > > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > said, > ³So > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements that I > have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that we will > not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the purpose of > the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of the > Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that the > Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any > international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send > an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From chintan.backups at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 12:35:09 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:35:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why hectic times call for a return to the family meal Message-ID: From http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/what-happy-families-know/you-are-who-you-eat-with?utm_source=nov10&utm_medium=yesemail&utm_campaign=titleWhoYouEatWith *You Are Who You Eat With* By Katherine Gustafson When the 10 Garcia-Prats boys got together every night for dinner, they shared more than food around the table. They talked about the successes and frustrations of their days. The older boys helped the younger ones cut their meat. They compared their picks for the World Cup, a conversation that turned into an impromptu geography lesson. Their mother, Cathy, author of *Good Families Don’t Just Happen: What We Learned from Raising Our Ten Sons and How It Can Work for You*, strove to make the dinner table warm and welcoming, a place where her boys would want to linger. “Our philosophy is that dinnertime is not just a time to feed your body; it’s a time to feed your mind and your soul,” she told me over the phone from her Houston, Texas, home. “It lets us have an opportunity to share our day, be part of each others’ lives.” Today, families like the Garcia-Prats are the exception. According the 2007 National Survey of Children’s Health, fewer than half of Americans eat meals daily with their families, a statistic that highlights the breakneck pace at which we live and our grab-and-go food culture. Increasing economic pressures only exacerbate these cultural trends, as many families are forced to work two jobs to afford the basics and have little time to slow down and have dinner. But the deterioration of the family meal may be more damaging than we realize. “Our lives have gotten so hectic and so busy that if you don’t set aside time as a family, I think you just get lost,” said Garcia-Prats. “Then you’re just individuals living in a building, instead of a family living in a home, supporting each other and being there for each other.” Dinner and Happiness When food advocate and chef Tom French asked a student how she felt after his organization, the Experience Food Project, began replacing the bland, processed food in her school cafeteria with fresh, healthy school lunches, he received an unexpected answer. “She gave it some serious thought,” he told me over the phone. “Then she said, ‘you know, I feel respected.’” Moments like this make French believe that adults who prepare quality meals for children are offering something more important than a nutrition lesson: They are communicating that they care. This is why the Experience Food Project teaches PTA parents about the importance of prioritizing family meals and helps them schedule the logistics of dinnertime. French says there are “mountains of statistical data” correlating family dinner with benefits such as better communication, higher academic performance, and improved eating habits. Having dinner together boosts family cohesiveness and is associated with children’s motivation in school, positive outlook, and avoidance of high-risk behaviors. Teens who frequently eat with their families are half as likely to smoke or use pot than those who rarely have family dinners, according to researchers at The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University (CASA). The correlation between family dinner and well-adjusted teens is so strong that CASA launched the first Family Day on September 27, an annual event honoring the family meal. The day recognizes that “parental engagement fostered during frequent family dinners is an effective tool to help keep America’s kids substance free.” President Obama officially proclaimed Family Day 2010, noting that it served as an opportunity to “recommit to creating a solid foundation for the future health and happiness of all our nation’s children.” Communities from all over the country held Family Day celebrations, and some made the event into a week-long affair. Families found creative ways to celebrate each others’ company over food—putting together homemade pizzas, picnicking, doing activities from CASA’s Family Dinner Kit, and eating at restaurants offering discounts for the occasion. Such events draw attention to the ways in which meals together help families strengthen their relationships, according to Joseph A. Califano Jr., CASA Founder and Chairman and former U.S. Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare. “The more often teens have dinner with their parents, the more likely they are to report talking to their parents about what’s going on in their lives,” said Califano in a statement to press. “In today’s busy and overscheduled world, taking the time to come together for dinner really makes a difference in a child’s life.” Family dinner also encourages the development of language skills and emotional intelligence in children. During dinner conversations, children learn how to articulate their feelings and experiences and to communicate respect—whether that means asking politely for a dish or talking about their day at school. Research shows that children who have acquired skills in identifying and expressing emotion and negotiating conflict often experience less distress, have fewer behavior problems, hold more positive attitudes about school, and exhibit better academic performance. Fusion Cuisine Finding ways to connect is increasingly important as families become more diverse and must negotiate cultural and generational difference. “People are tired and they are working and they are blending cultures and blending generations,” said French, who grew up in a household with his great-grandmother. Families of all types benefit from sharing life’s daily ups and downs around the table. In a 2010 study of a group of racially diverse, low-income, urban youth, kids who ate family dinner more frequently had more positive perceptions of their communication with their parents. Extended and blended families may find that dinner solidifies fledgling or fragile bonds. And families that unite multiple cultures can make the sharing of specific traditions and dishes—which, as French puts it, “carry generations of cultural DNA”—into a centerpiece of family bonding. As Garcia-Prats sees it, dinner is a time when families can celebrate their differences. “We learn diversity appreciation in our homes,” she said. “It’s going to be hard to appreciate someone else’s religion or ethnicity or culture if we haven’t even learned to appreciate the uniqueness of each person in our own family. It’s one of our philosophies: We are 12 unique individuals in this home.” At dinner, we bridge the gaps between us by sharing our food and the stories of our lives. And the moments we spend together at the table form the basis of something remarkably profound. Call it what you will—sibling bonding, communicating respect, bridging cultures—but at the very least it is, as Garcia-Prats told me, ”not just about food.” It is about the way food can connect us. -- Katherine Gustafson wrote this article for *What Happy Families Know*, the Winter 2011 issue of YES! Magazine. Katherine is a freelance writer and editor with a background in international nonprofit organizations. She is currently writing a book about sustainable food. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 14:33:13 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:33:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <8ECD1295-AC5B-4D1B-8E94-E7ECC6DE2D22@sarai.net> Message-ID: Quite interesting to see people here maintaining silence on the provocative and seditious speech by fiction-writer Arundhati Roy at the Delhi seminar. They still tend to live in the dark ages. Hope a lantern helps such people with some light or perhaps a sudden magic. The Court has already set the tone. Perhaps, now the 'real' engagement will begin. Let the mediocre people live in peace, finally. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, geeta seshu wrote: > I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of debate is truly pathetic. As > someone > who reads discussions/ debates (but rarely intervenes), I used to get some > insights into differing points of view. Please make an effort to bring it > back to a more intelligent, even if combative, level. > > Geeta > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gargi Sen wrote: > > > Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving and > > frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, even as > > they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the level > of > > the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all they > > seem > > to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults and > > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a > > tedious > > and mediocre level that one despairs. > > Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of > words, > > all that that lead to the joys of engagement? > > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more desirable > > than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. > > I hope though not forever. > > Gargi > > > > > > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 > > To: Aalok Aima > > Cc: sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - > > comparing > > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru > > > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of > Arundhati > > Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the directive > of > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to > "lodge > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some > > named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in > > the > > seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging > war > > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- > > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes the > > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi > police > > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian > > Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the next > > date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, > > pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an offence > was > > disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections include > > those > > relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a > > section > > of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other > > paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same language. > > Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought remedy > > under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to 'waging > war > > against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police to > > look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file > their > > report with reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati Roy > > refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war > > against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, me) > > she > > is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement > > faithfully > > mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, that > > rather > > than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with care. > Now, > > as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need for > a > > plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir > > following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu and > > Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and > > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a > posting > > on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru on > > the > > matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on > the > > 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I > > don't > > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, because > > much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's statement to > > the > > Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of > February, > > 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by > > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha > > (Chamber > > of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, 1954 > - > > ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance > and > > international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every assurance > and > > International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a plebiscite, > as > > mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed that > > the > > ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the > > Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of the > > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the > > Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that > "international > > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international commitments, > > which can have been nothing other than the holding of the plebiscite > under > > international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, and > > only > > if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, Nehru > > on > > the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. > Further, > > On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and > five > > weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in the > > Indian parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about > > between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an > > individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and > > consent of the people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a > > distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, > > Pakistan > > and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the > entity > > he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his eyes, > > (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality of > > its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing > CAN > > be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". Had > > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent of > > the > > people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the ratification > > of > > the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and > > Kashmir > > as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, because > then > > we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the constituent > > assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of the > > people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. His > > statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, > 1955 > > a > > year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called > > 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K was > > yet > > to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is > concerned, > > it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the > > Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely > > resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the > people > > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in > Arundhati > > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in the > > popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not > > comfortable > > for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 comes a > > year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that > Nehru > > changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post February > > 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is where > > arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about > > kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. > best > > Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My > > reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file an > > FIR > > against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court asked > the > > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war against > the > > state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police to > > "lodge > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" against > some > > named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches made > in > > the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about > > 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that arundhati > > roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the state' > > > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > > > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > that > a > > court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi police > > have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati > > (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement > (quoted > > below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on > > kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi police > > "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > > > (her > > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of > what > > has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist and > > secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used the > > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals her > > stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing her > > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of 13 > > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what arundhati > > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and of > > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as confirmedly > final > > (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un resolution on > > kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession to > india > > by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru > > statements > > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of > > 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with respect > to > > india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un > > resolution) > > and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > > after > > the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi > treated > > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did > not > > make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to 12 > > quoted > > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own > > statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on > > that > > basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then > > > > > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok aima > > > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > They > > can > > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati Roy > > > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi > > Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: > > Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal > Nehru > > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to the > > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit > Jawaharlal > > Nehru said, ³I should like to make > it clear that the question of > aiding > > Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence the > > state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made > public > > is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or state > > must > > be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this > > > > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > > > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other > > telegram > > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to > India > > was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and the > > most numerously representative > popular organization in the state which > > is > > predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that as > > soon > > as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide > > the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either > > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > Accession > > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd > > > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > > > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > to > be > > given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them > > ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has been > > our > > policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a state to > > either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that > state. > > It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso to > the > > Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to > the > > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have declared > that > > the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. That > > pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the > world. > > We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. 368 > > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit > > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and order > > have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by > Plebiscite > > or referendum under > international auspices such as those of United > > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian > > Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³In > > order > > to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the people are > > given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done under the > > supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations > > Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force > > should > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his > > statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, > Pandit > > Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our way > to > > make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of the > > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We > insisted > > further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a > popular > > government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we are > > prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair voting and > > to > > abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum or > > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, > > as > > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > > Nehru > > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > Nations > > reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express their > > will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the > > beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their fate > by > > referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long before > the > > United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision of > > the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made basically > > by > > the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India > > directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) > > have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that > many > > basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the > > people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their future > > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without our > > agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the will > of > > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on > 6th > > July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, > > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize > for > > > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > existence > and > > its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here > today > > that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the > > minds > > of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > only > > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the > > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > shall > be > > decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial > plebiscite > > under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the > > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as > quickly > > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar > > Patrika, > > Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's > > question > > in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going to > do > > about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru > said, > > > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the > > > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > > the > > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by the > > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would have > > no > > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations and > > given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great nation we > > cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final solution to > > the > > people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their decision.² > > > > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > > Pandit > > Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > proposition > > that > > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the goodwill > and > > pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this Parliament > is > > of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does not > > have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any > kind > > of imposition would be > against the principles that this Parliament > > holds. > > Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or > > adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and > a > > > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not > > > wish > > to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > them > > against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > stress > > that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of > > Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United Nations > > and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is > borne > > out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but > > everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and > > expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if > it > > was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > > > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > against > > the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on them > > on > > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement in > > the > > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New > Delhi > > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the most > > difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We should > > also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India > > and > > Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. > > Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of > > > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking > part > > in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on > > > > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > said, > > ³So > > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements that > I > > have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that we > will > > not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the purpose of > > the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of the > > Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that the > > Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any > > international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open > discussion > > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: > > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the > > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The > > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send > > an > > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From ujwalasam at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 16:32:50 2010 From: ujwalasam at gmail.com (Ujwala Samarth) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 16:32:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why hectic times call for a return to the family meal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While agreeing on the need to encourage family interaction and family meals -- which means the angry as well as well as the loving interactions -- I would like to point out that family dinners can be sources of immense tension when there is at least one strongly 'patriarchal' authority figure. Then, what ought to be a relaxed meal becomes a venue for being belittled because you couldn't answer the random maths question thrown at you (a favourite of Indian fathers of my generation -- now I hear they throw random GK questions a la Discovery Channel ), didn't wear the right clothes or comb your hair in the right way, you are forced to eat things you'd rather not in a way you'd rather not and often in an order you can't even choose for yourself. So sometimes, being able to escape with your plate to your room or to the TV or to the garden, is far healthier for the child. While encouraging family interactions, let's remember that many Indian adults need to be taught how to interact respectfully with children and not see the family meal as yet another showcase for imposing their authority. A meal eaten in peaceful isolation, I think, is better than forced and tense 'togetherness' Ujwala On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Chintan Girish Modi < chintan.backups at gmail.com> wrote: > From > > http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/what-happy-families-know/you-are-who-you-eat-with?utm_source=nov10&utm_medium=yesemail&utm_campaign=titleWhoYouEatWith > > *You Are Who You Eat With* > > By Katherine Gustafson > > When the 10 Garcia-Prats boys got together every night for dinner, they > shared more than food around the table. They talked about the successes and > frustrations of their days. The older boys helped the younger ones cut > their > meat. They compared their picks for the World Cup, a conversation that > turned into an impromptu geography lesson. > > Their mother, Cathy, author of *Good Families Don’t Just Happen: What We > Learned from Raising Our Ten Sons and How It Can Work for > You*, > strove to make the dinner table warm and welcoming, a place where her boys > would want to linger. “Our philosophy is that dinnertime is not just a time > to feed your body; it’s a time to feed your mind and your soul,” she told > me > over the phone from her Houston, Texas, home. “It lets us have an > opportunity to share our day, be part of each others’ lives.” > > Today, families like the Garcia-Prats are the exception. According the 2007 > National Survey of Children’s Health, fewer than half of Americans eat > meals > daily with their families, a statistic that highlights the breakneck pace > at > which we live and our grab-and-go food culture. Increasing economic > pressures only exacerbate these cultural trends, as many families are > forced > to work two jobs to afford the basics and have little time to slow down and > have dinner. > > But the deterioration of the family meal may be more damaging than we > realize. “Our lives have gotten so hectic and so busy that if you don’t set > aside time as a family, I think you just get lost,” said Garcia-Prats. > “Then > you’re just individuals living in a building, instead of a family living in > a home, supporting each other and being there for each other.” > Dinner and Happiness > > When food advocate and chef Tom French asked a student how she felt after > his organization, the Experience Food Project, began replacing the bland, > processed food in her school cafeteria with fresh, healthy school lunches, > he received an unexpected answer. > “She gave it some serious thought,” he told me over the phone. “Then she > said, ‘you know, I feel respected.’” > > Moments like this make French believe that adults who prepare quality meals > for children are offering something more important than a nutrition lesson: > They are communicating that they care. This is why the Experience Food > Project teaches PTA parents about the importance of prioritizing family > meals and helps them schedule the logistics of dinnertime. > > French says there are “mountains of statistical data” correlating family > dinner with benefits such as better communication, higher academic > performance, and improved eating habits. Having dinner together boosts > family cohesiveness and is associated with children’s motivation in school, > positive outlook, and avoidance of high-risk behaviors. Teens who > frequently > eat with their families are half as likely to smoke or use pot than those > who rarely have family dinners, according to researchers at The National > Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University (CASA). > > The correlation between family dinner and well-adjusted teens is so strong > that CASA launched the first Family Day on September 27, an annual event > honoring the family meal. The day recognizes that “parental engagement > fostered during frequent family dinners is an effective tool to help keep > America’s kids substance free.” > > President Obama officially proclaimed Family Day 2010, noting that it > served > as an opportunity to “recommit to creating a solid foundation for the > future > health and happiness of all our nation’s children.” > > Communities from all over the country held Family Day celebrations, and > some > made the event into a week-long affair. Families found creative ways to > celebrate each others’ company over food—putting together homemade pizzas, > picnicking, doing activities from CASA’s Family Dinner Kit, and eating at > restaurants offering discounts for the occasion. > > Such events draw attention to the ways in which meals together help > families > strengthen their relationships, according to Joseph A. Califano Jr., CASA > Founder and Chairman and former U.S. Secretary of Health, Education, and > Welfare. “The more often teens have dinner with their parents, the more > likely they are to report talking to their parents about what’s going on in > their lives,” said Califano in a statement to press. “In today’s busy and > overscheduled world, taking the time to come together for dinner really > makes a difference in a child’s life.” > > Family dinner also encourages the development of language skills and > emotional intelligence in children. During dinner conversations, children > learn how to articulate their feelings and experiences and to communicate > respect—whether that means asking politely for a dish or talking about > their > day at school. Research shows that children who have acquired skills in > identifying and expressing emotion and negotiating conflict often > experience > less distress, have fewer behavior problems, hold more positive attitudes > about school, and exhibit better academic performance. > Fusion Cuisine > > Finding ways to connect is increasingly important as families become more > diverse and must negotiate cultural and generational difference. “People > are > tired and they are working and they are blending cultures and blending > generations,” said French, who grew up in a household with his > great-grandmother. > > Families of all types benefit from sharing life’s daily ups and downs > around > the table. In a 2010 study of a group of racially diverse, low-income, > urban > youth, kids who ate family dinner more frequently had more positive > perceptions of their communication with their parents. Extended and blended > families may find that dinner solidifies fledgling or fragile bonds. And > families that unite multiple cultures can make the sharing of specific > traditions and dishes—which, as French puts it, “carry generations of > cultural DNA”—into a centerpiece of family bonding. > > As Garcia-Prats sees it, dinner is a time when families can celebrate their > differences. “We learn diversity appreciation in our homes,” she said. > “It’s > going to be hard to appreciate someone else’s religion or ethnicity or > culture if we haven’t even learned to appreciate the uniqueness of each > person in our own family. It’s one of our philosophies: We are 12 unique > individuals in this home.” > > At dinner, we bridge the gaps between us by sharing our food and the > stories > of our lives. And the moments we spend together at the table form the basis > of something remarkably profound. Call it what you will—sibling bonding, > communicating respect, bridging cultures—but at the very least it is, as > Garcia-Prats told me, ”not just about food.” It is about the way food can > connect us. > > -- > > Katherine Gustafson wrote this article for *What Happy Families > Know*< > http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/what-happy-families-know/what-happy-families-know > >, > the Winter 2011 issue of YES! Magazine. Katherine is a freelance writer and > editor with a background in international nonprofit organizations. She is > currently writing a book about sustainable food. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Ujwala Samarth (Programme Coordinator, Open Space) www.openspaceindia.org www.infochangeindia.org http://www.facebook.com/pages/Open-Space/116557125037041 B-301, Kanchanjunga Building, Kanchan Lane, Off Law College Rd,, Pune 411004 (020-25457371) From the-network at koeln.de Mon Nov 29 16:47:23 2010 From: the-network at koeln.de (JavaMuseum) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:17:23 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Program_-_Week_49_on_NewMediaFest=27?= =?iso-8859-1?q?2010?= Message-ID: <20101129121723.DE5ABD2F.8AD271F0@192.168.0.3> NewMediaFest'2010 ------------------------------------ program - week 49 ---> 29 November - 5 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1175 ------------------------------------ 1. ------------------------------------ Feature of the Week 49 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1173 JavaMuseum's netart journal "Celebrate!" - celebrating 10 years netart is proudly presenting this week 10 new exciting netart pieces by ---> Ana Carvalho (Portugal) Ximena Alarcón (Colombia) Mark Beasley (USA) James B. Pollack (USA) ------------------------------------ 2. ------------------------------------ VideoChannel Cologne's Feature of the Month November 2010 - part 2 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=1163 Family Affair 2 - Mother, father, brothers & sisters featuring videos by following 12 artists Helga Bothe (D) - Sara Bremen (USA) - Janet Cook-Rutnik (VI) Ren Cummings (USA) - Michael Doocey (USA) - Gratuitous Art Films (USA) - Richard Jochum (A) - Tina Jokitalo (FI) - Radhamohini Prasad (IN) Robby Rackleff (USA) - Sivan Sebbag (Israel) - Peter Vadocz (HU) ------------------------------------ NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne 2010 [at] newmediafest.org ---------------------------------- From agora158 at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 18:04:53 2010 From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:34:53 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <8ECD1295-AC5B-4D1B-8E94-E7ECC6DE2D22@sarai.net> Message-ID: With all respect, Aditja, allow a fellow writer to Arundhati Roy to salute her for her courage. In despite to being harassed, her house vandalized, etc, she keep on doing what a writer is born to do, to provoke, to tell umconfortable truths, to be subversive, to be seditious, to be apart from the States and their norms and false allegeancies and false loyalties. Socrates was poisoned because his discourse was considered sedicious. I was imprisoned four years because my student group was considered sedicious. I don't have a clue if Arundhati Roy is right or wrong, but she is standing on the line as the writers should do, as independent and critical observers of their contemporaneity. Ana Valdes On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Quite interesting to see people here maintaining silence on the provocative > and seditious speech by fiction-writer Arundhati Roy at the Delhi seminar. > They still tend to live in the dark ages. Hope a lantern helps such people > with some light or perhaps a sudden magic. The Court has already set the > tone. Perhaps, now the 'real' engagement will begin. > > Let the mediocre people live in peace, finally. > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, geeta seshu > wrote: > > > I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of debate is truly pathetic. As > > someone > > who reads discussions/ debates (but rarely intervenes), I used to get > some > > insights into differing points of view. Please make an effort to bring it > > back to a more intelligent, even if combative, level. > > > > Geeta > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gargi Sen wrote: > > > > > Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving and > > > frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, even > as > > > they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the > level > > of > > > the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all they > > > seem > > > to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults > and > > > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a > > > tedious > > > and mediocre level that one despairs. > > > Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of > > words, > > > all that that lead to the joys of engagement? > > > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more > desirable > > > than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. > > > I hope though not forever. > > > Gargi > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 > > > To: Aalok Aima > > > Cc: sarai list > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - > > > comparing > > > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru > > > > > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of > > Arundhati > > > Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the directive > > of > > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to > > "lodge > > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against > some > > > named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made > in > > > the > > > seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging > > war > > > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- > > > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes > the > > > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi > > police > > > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the > > Indian > > > Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the > next > > > date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, > > > pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an offence > > was > > > disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections include > > > those > > > relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a > > > section > > > of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other > > > paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same language. > > > Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought > remedy > > > under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to 'waging > > war > > > against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police > to > > > look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file > > their > > > report with reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati > Roy > > > refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war > > > against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, > me) > > > she > > > is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement > > > faithfully > > > mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, that > > > rather > > > than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with care. > > Now, > > > as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need > for > > a > > > plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir > > > following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu and > > > Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and > > > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a > > posting > > > on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru > on > > > the > > > matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on > > the > > > 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - > > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I > > > don't > > > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, > because > > > much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's statement > to > > > the > > > Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of > > February, > > > 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by > > > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha > > > (Chamber > > > of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, > 1954 > > - > > > ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance > > and > > > international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every assurance > > and > > > International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a > plebiscite, > > as > > > mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed > that > > > the > > > ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the > > > Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of > the > > > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the > > > Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that > > "international > > > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international > commitments, > > > which can have been nothing other than the holding of the plebiscite > > under > > > international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, and > > > only > > > if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, > Nehru > > > on > > > the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. > > Further, > > > On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and > > five > > > weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in the > > > Indian parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about > > > between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an > > > individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill > and > > > consent of the people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a > > > distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, > > > Pakistan > > > and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the > > entity > > > he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his > eyes, > > > (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality > of > > > its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing > > CAN > > > be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". > Had > > > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent > of > > > the > > > people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the > ratification > > > of > > > the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and > > > Kashmir > > > as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, because > > then > > > we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the > constituent > > > assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of > the > > > people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. > His > > > statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, > > 1955 > > > a > > > year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called > > > 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K > was > > > yet > > > to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is > > concerned, > > > it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the > > > Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely > > > resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the > > people > > > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in > > Arundhati > > > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in > the > > > popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not > > > comfortable > > > for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 comes > a > > > year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that > > Nehru > > > changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post > February > > > 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is > where > > > arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about > > > kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. > > best > > > Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : > "My > > > reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file > an > > > FIR > > > against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court asked > > the > > > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war against > > the > > > state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of > > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police to > > > "lodge > > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" against > > some > > > named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches made > > in > > > the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about > > > 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that > arundhati > > > roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the > state' > > > > > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > > > > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > > that > > a > > > court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi > police > > > have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati > > > (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement > > (quoted > > > below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on > > > kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi > police > > > "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > > > > (her > > > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of > > what > > > has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist and > > > secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used > the > > > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals > her > > > stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing > her > > > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of 13 > > > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what > arundhati > > > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and of > > > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as confirmedly > > final > > > (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un resolution > on > > > kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession to > > india > > > by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru > > > statements > > > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of > > > 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with respect > > to > > > india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un > > > resolution) > > > and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > > > after > > > the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi > > treated > > > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did > > not > > > make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to 12 > > > quoted > > > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own > > > statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on > > > that > > > basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted > then > > > > > > > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok > aima > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > > They > > > can > > > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati > Roy > > > > > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the > > Delhi > > > Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: > > > Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal > > Nehru > > > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to > the > > > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit > > Jawaharlal > > > Nehru said, ³I should like to make > it clear that the question of > > aiding > > > Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence > the > > > state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made > > public > > > is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or state > > > must > > > be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this > > > > > > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > > > > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other > > > telegram > > > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to > > India > > > was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and > the > > > most numerously representative > popular organization in the state > which > > > is > > > predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that as > > > soon > > > as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would > decide > > > the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either > > > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > > Accession > > > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd > > > > > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > > > > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > > to > > be > > > given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them > > > ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has > been > > > our > > > policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a state > to > > > either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that > > state. > > > It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso to > > the > > > Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to > > the > > > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have declared > > that > > > the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. That > > > pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the > > world. > > > We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. 368 > > > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, > Pandit > > > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and > order > > > have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by > > Plebiscite > > > or referendum under > international auspices such as those of United > > > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian > > > Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³In > > > order > > > to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the people > are > > > given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done under > the > > > supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations > > > Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked > force > > > should > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his > > > statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, > > Pandit > > > Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our way > > to > > > make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of the > > > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We > > insisted > > > further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a > > popular > > > government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we are > > > prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair voting > and > > > to > > > abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum or > > > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, > 1951, > > > as > > > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > > > Nehru > > > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > > Nations > > > reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express > their > > > will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the > > > beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their > fate > > by > > > referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long before > > the > > > United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision > of > > > the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made > basically > > > by > > > the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India > > > directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and > Pakistan) > > > have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that > > many > > > basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the > > > people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their > future > > > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without > our > > > agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the will > > of > > > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on > > 6th > > > July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, > 1951, > > > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize > > for > > > > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > > > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > existence > > and > > > its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here > > today > > > that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the > > > minds > > > of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > > > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > > only > > > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the > > > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > > shall > > be > > > decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial > > plebiscite > > > under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the > > > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as > > quickly > > > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar > > > Patrika, > > > Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's > > > question > > > in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going > to > > do > > > about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru > > said, > > > > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the > > > > > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > > > the > > > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by the > > > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would > have > > > no > > > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations > and > > > given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great nation > we > > > cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final solution > to > > > the > > > people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their decision.² > > > > > > > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > > > Pandit > > > Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > proposition > > > that > > > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the goodwill > > and > > > pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this Parliament > > is > > > of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does > not > > > have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any > > kind > > > of imposition would be > against the principles that this Parliament > > > holds. > > > Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree > or > > > adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench > and > > a > > > > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not > > > > wish > > > to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > them > > > against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > > stress > > > that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of > > > Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United > Nations > > > and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is > > borne > > > out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but > > > everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and > > > expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave > if > > it > > > was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > > > > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > > against > > > the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on > them > > > on > > > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement > in > > > the > > > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New > > Delhi > > > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the most > > > difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We > should > > > also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between > India > > > and > > > Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its > own. > > > Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people > of > > > > > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking > > part > > > in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on > > > > > > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > > said, > > > ³So > > > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements > that > > I > > > have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that we > > will > > > not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the purpose > of > > > the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of the > > > Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that the > > > Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any > > > international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open > > discussion > > > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > subscribe: > > > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > the > > > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata > Sengupta > > > The > > > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net > > > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open > discussion > > > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: > send > > > an > > > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-listList > > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > India Editor > The Indian, Australia > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 18:27:31 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:27:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] on Anish Kapoor, Artist from UK Message-ID: Anish Kapoor is in the town with his works after Sonia ji's ribbon cut here is a wonderful essay by Alexander Keefe http://www.mansishah.net/browntown/3005 -- plz press to read image of his work in the back ground, and in the foreground: with book The politics of Aesthetics http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000927217088#!/photo.php?fbid=165651943475712&set=a.165651906809049.34071.100000927217088 love is http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 19:20:27 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:20:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] on Anish Kapoor, Artist from UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi dear Vivan hope ur fine good wishes > > here is a wonderful essay by  Alexander Keefe on Anish Kapoor > http://www.mansishah.net/browntown/3005 > -- interesting piece love is From sen.gargi at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 22:02:34 2010 From: sen.gargi at gmail.com (Gargi Sen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:02:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Aditya, That was a very nice mail indeed. Thank you. I appreciate your wit and play on my organisation, magic lantern. I really wish you would continue more on this vein. It makes engagement such a pleasure. Only, I fail to understand what gave you the idea that I was silent on Arundhati Roy’s speech? Not on the Sarai list but on many fora I have expressed my complete endorsement to her speech, in fact all her speeches, whether on Kashmir or on the Maoists. I am a deep admirer of Ms. Roy’s position, philosophy and writing. Although that doesn’t quite take me to the dark ages. Or the middle ages either, which, though, age has certainly brought me to. And in the middle ages Aditya, nothing is more tiresome than the noise made by witless youth. So thank you for giving me a glimpse into your other self. I seriously appreciate it. Do keep this tone of the conversation going Aditya. And maybe one day you will ‘see through’ the tone of the court and perhaps even engage for real. Warmly, Gargi From: Aditya Raj Kaul Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:33:13 +0530 To: sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru Quite interesting to see people here maintaining silence on the provocative and seditious speech by fiction-writer Arundhati Roy at the Delhi seminar. They still tend to live in the dark ages. Hope a lantern helps such people with some light or perhaps a sudden magic. The Court has already set the tone. Perhaps, now the 'real' engagement will begin. Let the mediocre people live in peace, finally. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, geeta seshu wrote: > I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of debate is truly pathetic. As > someone > who reads discussions/ debates (but rarely intervenes), I used to get some > insights into differing points of view. Please make an effort to bring it > back to a more intelligent, even if combative, level. > > Geeta > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gargi Sen wrote: > > > Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving and > > frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, even as > > they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the level > of > > the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all they > > seem > > to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults and > > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a > > tedious > > and mediocre level that one despairs. > > Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of > words, > > all that that lead to the joys of engagement? > > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more desirable > > than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. > > I hope though not forever. > > Gargi > > > > > > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 > > To: Aalok Aima > > Cc: sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - > > comparing > > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru > > > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of > Arundhati > > Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the directive > of > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to > "lodge > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some > > named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in > > the > > seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging > war > > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- > > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes the > > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi > police > > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian > > Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the next > > date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, > > pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an offence > was > > disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections include > > those > > relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a > > section > > of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other > > paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same language. > > Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought remedy > > under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to 'waging > war > > against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police to > > look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file > their > > report with reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati Roy > > refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war > > against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, me) > > she > > is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement > > faithfully > > mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, that > > rather > > than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with care. > Now, > > as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need for > a > > plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir > > following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu and > > Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and > > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a > posting > > on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru on > > the > > matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on > the > > 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I > > don't > > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, because > > much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's statement to > > the > > Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of > February, > > 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by > > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha > > (Chamber > > of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, 1954 > - > > ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance > and > > international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every assurance > and > > International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a plebiscite, > as > > mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed that > > the > > ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the > > Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of the > > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the > > Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that > "international > > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international commitments, > > which can have been nothing other than the holding of the plebiscite > under > > international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, and > > only > > if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, Nehru > > on > > the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. > Further, > > On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and > five > > weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in the > > Indian parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about > > between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an > > individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and > > consent of the people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a > > distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, > > Pakistan > > and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the > entity > > he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his eyes, > > (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality of > > its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing > CAN > > be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". Had > > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent of > > the > > people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the ratification > > of > > the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and > > Kashmir > > as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, because > then > > we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the constituent > > assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of the > > people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. His > > statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, > 1955 > > a > > year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called > > 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K was > > yet > > to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is > concerned, > > it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the > > Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely > > resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the > people > > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in > Arundhati > > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in the > > popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not > > comfortable > > for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 comes a > > year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that > Nehru > > changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post February > > 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is where > > arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about > > kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. > best > > Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My > > reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file an > > FIR > > against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court asked > the > > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war against > the > > state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police to > > "lodge > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" against > some > > named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches made > in > > the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about > > 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that arundhati > > roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the state' > > > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > > > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > that > a > > court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi police > > have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati > > (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement > (quoted > > below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on > > kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi police > > "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > > > (her > > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of > what > > has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist and > > secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used the > > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals her > > stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing her > > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of 13 > > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what arundhati > > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and of > > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as confirmedly > final > > (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un resolution on > > kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession to > india > > by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru > > statements > > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of > > 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with respect > to > > india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un > > resolution) > > and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > > after > > the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi > treated > > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did > not > > make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to 12 > > quoted > > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own > > statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on > > that > > basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted then > > > > > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok aima > > > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > They > > can > > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati Roy > > > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi > > Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: > > Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal > Nehru > > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to the > > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit > Jawaharlal > > Nehru said, ³I should like to make > it clear that the question of > aiding > > Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence the > > state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made > public > > is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or state > > must > > be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this > > > > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > > > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other > > telegram > > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to > India > > was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and the > > most numerously representative > popular organization in the state which > > is > > predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that as > > soon > > as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide > > the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either > > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > Accession > > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd > > > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > > > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > to > be > > given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them > > ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has been > > our > > policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a state to > > either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that > state. > > It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso to > the > > Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to > the > > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have declared > that > > the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. That > > pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the > world. > > We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. 368 > > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit > > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and order > > have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by > Plebiscite > > or referendum under > international auspices such as those of United > > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian > > Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³In > > order > > to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the people are > > given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done under the > > supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations > > Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force > > should > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his > > statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, > Pandit > > Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our way > to > > make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of the > > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We > insisted > > further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a > popular > > government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we are > > prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair voting and > > to > > abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum or > > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, > > as > > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > > Nehru > > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > Nations > > reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express their > > will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the > > beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their fate > by > > referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long before > the > > United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision of > > the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made basically > > by > > the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India > > directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) > > have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that > many > > basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the > > people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their future > > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without our > > agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the will > of > > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on > 6th > > July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, > > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize > for > > > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > existence > and > > its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here > today > > that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the > > minds > > of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > only > > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the > > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > shall > be > > decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial > plebiscite > > under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the > > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as > quickly > > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar > > Patrika, > > Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's > > question > > in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going to > do > > about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru > said, > > > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the > > > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > > the > > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by the > > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would have > > no > > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations and > > given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great nation we > > cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final solution to > > the > > people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their decision.² > > > > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > > Pandit > > Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > proposition > > that > > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the goodwill > and > > pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this Parliament > is > > of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does not > > have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any > kind > > of imposition would be > against the principles that this Parliament > > holds. > > Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or > > adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and > a > > > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not > > > wish > > to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > them > > against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > stress > > that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of > > Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United Nations > > and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is > borne > > out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but > > everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and > > expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if > it > > was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > > > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > against > > the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on them > > on > > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement in > > the > > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New > Delhi > > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the most > > difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We should > > also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between India > > and > > Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its own. > > Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of > > > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking > part > > in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on > > > > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > said, > > ³So > > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements that > I > > have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that we > will > > not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the purpose of > > the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of the > > Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that the > > Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any > > international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open > discussion > > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: > > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the > > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The > > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send > > an > > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From geetaseshu at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 22:17:02 2010 From: geetaseshu at gmail.com (geeta seshu) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:17:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :-) now, this is more like it...only, would callow youth be a better description? On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Gargi Sen wrote: > Dear Aditya, > That was a very nice mail indeed. Thank you. I appreciate your wit and play > on my organisation, magic lantern. I really wish you would continue more on > this vein. It makes engagement such a pleasure. > Only, I fail to understand what gave you the idea that I was silent on > Arundhati Roy’s speech? Not on the Sarai list but on many fora I have > expressed my complete endorsement to her speech, in fact all her speeches, > whether on Kashmir or on the Maoists. I am a deep admirer of Ms. Roy’s > position, philosophy and writing. Although that doesn’t quite take me to > the > dark ages. Or the middle ages either, which, though, age has certainly > brought me to. And in the middle ages Aditya, nothing is more tiresome than > the noise made by witless youth. So thank you for giving me a glimpse into > your other self. I seriously appreciate it. > Do keep this tone of the conversation going Aditya. And maybe one day you > will ‘see through’ the tone of the court and perhaps even engage for real. > Warmly, > Gargi > > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:33:13 +0530 > To: sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - > comparing > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru > > Quite interesting to see people here maintaining silence on the provocative > and seditious speech by fiction-writer Arundhati Roy at the Delhi seminar. > They still tend to live in the dark ages. Hope a lantern helps such people > with some light or perhaps a sudden magic. The Court has already set the > tone. Perhaps, now the 'real' engagement will begin. Let the mediocre > people > live in peace, finally. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, geeta seshu > wrote: > I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of > debate is truly pathetic. As > someone > who reads discussions/ debates > (but > rarely intervenes), I used to get some > insights into differing points of > view. Please make an effort to bring it > back to a more intelligent, even > if combative, level. > > Geeta > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, > Gargi Sen wrote: > > > Thanks Sudhha for one more > considered reply. Now if only the raving and > > frothing people on the > Sarai list would send considered replies, even as > > they rave and froth, > which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the level > of > > the discourse > would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all they > > seem > > to > be > posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults and > > > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a > > > tedious > > and mediocre level that one despairs. > > Where is the wit, the > arguments crafted with diligence, the play of > words, > > all that that > lead to the joys of engagement? > > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an > intelligent enemy is more desirable > > than a mediocre friend is put to > rest on the Sarai list. > > I hope though not forever. > > Gargi > > > > > > > > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > Date: Mon, 29 Nov > 2010 07:35:34 +0530 > > To: Aalok Aima > > Cc: > sarai > list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest > stupidity of arundhati roy - > > comparing > > her utterances on kashmir > with those of nehru > > > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to > your criticism of > Arundhati > > Roy's recent statement published in the > Hindu. You say, "the directive > of > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita > Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to > "lodge > > an FIR under relevant > provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against some > > named persons (which > includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made in > > the > > seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about 'waging > war > > > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- > > > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes the > > > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi > > police > > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of > the > Indian > > Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, > 2011, the next > > date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita > Kumari > Bagha said, > > pointing out that the court has to step in since even > after > an offence > was > > disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The > sections include > > those > > relating to sedition, waging war against > the > state of the IPC and a > > section > > of Unlawful Activities Prevention > Act (UAPA)." If you read any other > > paper's reports on the matter, you > will see exactly the same language. > > Which in itself is not surprising, > as the complainant has sought remedy > > under those precise sections, > including the one pertaining to 'waging > war > > against the state' and > so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police to > > look into the filing > of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file > their > > report with > reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati Roy > > refers to > the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war > > against the > state' against her and others (including, incidentally, me) > > she > > is > not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement > > > faithfully > > mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I > suspect, that > > rather > > than her, it is you who seems not to have > read > the reports with care. > Now, > > as for your contention, that Nehru > changed > his position on the need for > a > > plebiscite to ascertain the will of > the people of Jaamu and Kashmir > > following the ratification of the > accession to the state of Jammu and > > Kashmir to the Union of India by > the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and > > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is > simply not true. I had published a > posting > > on this list on the matter > of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru on > > the > > matter of > ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on > the > > 25th > of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - > > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I > > > don't > > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, > because > > much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's > statement to > > the > > Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date > of the 15th of > February, > > 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce > two statements made by > > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement > in the Rajya Sabha > > (Chamber > > of States) of the Indian Parliament, > Nehru says on the 18th of May, 1954 > - > > ³But so far as the Government > of > India are concerned, every assurance > and > > international commitment in > regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every assurance > and > > International > commitment' includes the commitment to hold a plebiscite, > as > > > mandated > by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed that > > the > > > ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the > > > Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of the > > > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the > > > Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that > > "international > > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The > international commitments, > > which can have been nothing other than the > holding of the plebiscite > under > > international auspieces, could have > been said to be 'standing' if, and > > only > > if, they had not yet been > seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, Nehru > > on > > the 18th of May > 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. > Further, > > On 31st of > March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and > five > > > weeks > after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in the > > > Indian > parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about > > > between > India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an > > individuality > of > its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill and > > consent of the > people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a > > distinction here > between > the wills of the entities he calls India, > > Pakistan > > and Kashmir. > Which means that he does not conflate the will of the > entity > > he > calls > India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his eyes, > > (these > are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality of > > its > own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing > CAN > > > be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". Had > > > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent > of > > > the > > people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the > ratification > > of > > the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent > Assembly of Jammu and > > Kashmir > > as the final word on the matter, > would have had some weight, because > then > > we would be arguing about > whether or not the decision of the constituent > > assembly of J & K > actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of the > > people of > Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. His > > > statement > clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, > 1955 > > a > > > > year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called > > > 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K was > > > > yet > > to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is > > concerned, > > it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed > that the > > Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything > closely > > resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" > of > the > people > > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was > included in > Arundhati > > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in > your > haste to indulge in the > > popular pastime of attacking people who say > things that are not > > comfortable > > for Indian Jingoism, you had > overlooked the fact that March 1955 comes a > > year and a bit, AFTER, > February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that > Nehru > > changed his > public > stance on the question of a plebiscite post February > > 1954 is not borne > out by these two quotations. You say - "this is where > > arundhati roy > reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about > > kashmir". I > wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. > best > > Shuddha > On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : "My > > > reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file an > > > > FIR > > against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court > asked > the > > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging > war against > the > > state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > > the > directive of > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > > delhi > police to > > "lodge > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian > Penal Code" against > some > > named persons (which includes > arundhati > roy) for their speeches made > in > > the seminar on > 21/10/2010 > ........ > it does not say anything about > > 'waging war > against the state' > > it > is another thing that arundhati > > roy's utterance could be > interpreted > as 'waging war against the state' > > > > > as she did in an earlier > statement, arundhati seems to find > > > unacceptable that someone should > seek prosecution against her or > that > a > > court of law should be > approached with the complaint that > delhi police > > have not taken > cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati > > (amongst > others) > > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement > (quoted > > below from > > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on > > kashmir with > those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi police > > "should > posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > > > (her > > > > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of > > what > > has since long been put forward as arguments > by the > secessionist > and > > secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also > used > the > > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy > reveals > her > > stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in > comparing > her > > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of > 13 > > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what > arundhati > > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of > goi (and of > > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as > confirmedly > final > > (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part > of > the un resolution on > > kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of > j&k's accession to > india > > by the constituent > assembly of j&k on > 15/02/1954 > > the nehru > > statements > > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, > pre-date that > ratification date of > > 15/02/1954 and are from a period > when the > status of j&k with respect > to > > india was subjected to a > lot > of > questioning (including the un > > resolution) > > and nehru > acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > > after > > the > 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi > treated > > > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did > > not > > make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to > 12 > > quoted > > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in > comparing her own > > statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to > 15/02/1954 and on > > that > > basis > self-righteously suggesting that if > she is to be prosecuted then > > > > > nehru (posthumously) should also be > prosected > > ........... aalok aima > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > They > > > can > > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > > Arundhati Roy > > > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court > order > directing the > Delhi > > Police to > file an FIR against me for waging > war > against the state: > > Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge > against Jawaharlal > Nehru > > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > > 1. In his telegram to the > > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > > Prime Minister Pandit > Jawaharlal > > Nehru said, ³I should like to make > > > it clear that the question of > aiding > > Kashmir in this emergency is > > not designed in any way to influence the > > state to accede to India. > > Our view which we have repeatedly made > public > > is that the question > > of accession in any disputed territory or state > > must > > be decided in > > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this > > > > view.² > (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > > > Pakistan > repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other > > telegram > > > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to > > India > > > was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and > the > > most numerously representative > popular organization in the state > which > > is > > predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on > condition that as > > soon > > as law and > order had been restored, the > people of Kashmir would decide > > the > question of accession. It is open > to them to accede to either > > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated > 31 October, 1947). > > Accession > > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the > nation over All India Radio on 2nd > > > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru > said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > > > anything in a moment of crisis > and without the fullest opportunity > to > be > > given to the people of > Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them > > ultimately to decide > ------ > And let me make it clear that it > has been > > our > > policy that where > there is a dispute about the > accession of a state to > > either > Dominion, > the accession must be made > by the people of that > state. > > It is in > accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso to > the > > > Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to > > the > > > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have declared > > that > > the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. > That > > pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to > the > world. > > We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his > letter No. 368 > > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of > Pakistan, Pandit > > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon > as peace and order > > have been established, Kashmir > should decide of > accession by > Plebiscite > > or referendum under > international auspices > such as those of United > > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his > statement in the Indian > > Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, > Pandit Nehru said, ³In > > order > > to establish our bona > fide, we have > suggested that when the people are > > given the chance > to decide their > future, this should be done under the > > supervision > of an impartial > tribunal such as the United Nations > > Organisation. > The issue in > Kashmir is whether violence and naked force > > should > decide the future > or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his > > statement in the Indian > Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, > Pandit > > Nehru said, ³Even > at the moment of accession, we went > out of our way > to > > make a > unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of the > > people > of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We > insisted > > > further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a > > popular > > government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and > we are > > prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair > voting and > > to > > abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > > Referendum or > > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on > 16th January, 1951, > > as > > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th > January, 1951, Pandit > > Nehru > > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered > to work with the United > Nations > > reasonable safeguards to enable the > people of Kashmir to > express their > > will and is always ready to do > so. > We have always > right from the > > beginning accepted the idea of the > Kashmir people > deciding their fate > by > > referendum or plebiscite. In > fact, this was > our proposal long before > the > > United Nations came > into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision of > > the settlement, > which must come, > has first of all to be made basically > > by > > the > people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India > > > directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) > > > have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that > > many > > basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is > the > > people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their > future > > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even > without our > > agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir > against the will > of > > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian > Congress Committee on > 6th > > July, 1951 > as published in the > Statesman, > New Delhi on 9th July, 1951, > > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been > wrongly looked upon as a prize > for > > > India or Pakistan. People seem > to > forget that Kashmir is not a > > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. > It > has an individual > existence > and > > its people must be the final > arbiters of their > future. It is here > today > > that a struggle is > bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the > > minds > > of men.² > > > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > > > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > only > > > > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the > > > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > shall > > be > > decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial > > plebiscite > > under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious > that the > > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be > created > as > quickly > > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by > Amrita Bazar > > Patrika, > > Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while > replying to Dr. Mookerji's > > question > > in the Indian > Legislature as > to what the Congress Government going to > do > > about > one third of > territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru > said, > > > ³is not the > property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the > > > Kashmiri > people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > > the > > > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by the > > > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would have > > > no > > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United > Nations and > > given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a > great nation we > > cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for > final solution to > > the > > people of Kashmir and we are > determined to > abide by their decision.² > > > > > 12.In his statement in the Indian > Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > > Pandit > > Nehru said, ³Let me say > clearly that we accept the basic > proposition > > that > > the future of > Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the goodwill > and > > > pleasure > of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this Parliament > is > > of > no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does not > > > have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any > > kind > > of imposition would be > against the principles that this > Parliament > > holds. > > Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts > and if by some decree or > > adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of > India, it will be a wrench and > a > > > pain and torment for us. If, > however, the people of Kashmir do not > > > wish > > to remain with us, > let > them go by all means. We will not keep > them > > against their will, > however painful it may be to us. I want to > stress > > that it is only > the > people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of > > Kashmir. It is not > that we have > merely said that to the United Nations > > and to the > people > of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is > borne > > out by the > > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but > > everywhere. > > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and > > expense and > > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if > it > > was > > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > > > However > sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > against > > the > wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on them > > > on > > > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement > in > > > the > > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan > Times > New > Delhi > > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is > perhaps the most > > difficult of all these > problems between India and > Pakistan. We should > > also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be > bandied between India > > and > > Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own > and an individuality of its own. > > Nothing > can be done without the > goodwill and consent of the people of > > > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his > statement in the Security Council while taking > part > > in > debate on > Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on > > > > 24th > January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > said, > > ³So > > > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements > that > > I > > have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that > we > will > > not honour international > obligations. I want to say for > the > purpose of > > the record that there > is nothing that has been said on > behalf of the > > Government of India > which in the slightest degree > indicates that the > > Government of > India or the Union of India will > dishonour any > > international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open > > discussion > > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > > To > subscribe: > > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the > > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > The > > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net > > > > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > > > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send > > > an > > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > > archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul > India Editor The Indian, Australia Blog: > http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send > an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From chintan.backups at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 22:20:20 2010 From: chintan.backups at gmail.com (Chintan Girish Modi) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:20:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why hectic times call for a return to the family meal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Ujwala Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You're quite right. Chintan On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Ujwala Samarth wrote: > While agreeing on the need to encourage family interaction and family meals > -- which means the angry as well as well as the loving interactions -- I > would like to point out that family dinners can be sources of immense > tension when there is at least one strongly 'patriarchal' authority figure. > Then, what ought to be a relaxed meal becomes a venue for being belittled > because you couldn't answer the random maths question thrown at you (a > favourite of Indian fathers of my generation -- now I hear they throw random > GK questions a la Discovery Channel ), didn't wear the right clothes or comb > your hair in the right way, you are forced to eat things you'd rather not in > a way you'd rather not and often in an order you can't even choose for > yourself. So sometimes, being able to escape with your plate to your room or > to the TV or to the garden, is far healthier for the child. While > encouraging family interactions, let's remember that many Indian adults need > to be taught how to interact respectfully with children and not see the > family meal as yet another showcase for imposing their authority. A meal > eaten in peaceful isolation, I think, is better than forced and tense > 'togetherness' > > Ujwala > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Chintan Girish Modi < > chintan.backups at gmail.com> wrote: > >> From >> >> http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/what-happy-families-know/you-are-who-you-eat-with?utm_source=nov10&utm_medium=yesemail&utm_campaign=titleWhoYouEatWith >> >> *You Are Who You Eat With* >> >> By Katherine Gustafson >> >> When the 10 Garcia-Prats boys got together every night for dinner, they >> shared more than food around the table. They talked about the successes >> and >> frustrations of their days. The older boys helped the younger ones cut >> their >> meat. They compared their picks for the World Cup, a conversation that >> turned into an impromptu geography lesson. >> >> Their mother, Cathy, author of *Good Families Don’t Just Happen: What We >> Learned from Raising Our Ten Sons and How It Can Work for >> You*, >> >> strove to make the dinner table warm and welcoming, a place where her boys >> would want to linger. “Our philosophy is that dinnertime is not just a >> time >> to feed your body; it’s a time to feed your mind and your soul,” she told >> me >> over the phone from her Houston, Texas, home. “It lets us have an >> opportunity to share our day, be part of each others’ lives.” >> >> Today, families like the Garcia-Prats are the exception. According the >> 2007 >> National Survey of Children’s Health, fewer than half of Americans eat >> meals >> daily with their families, a statistic that highlights the breakneck pace >> at >> which we live and our grab-and-go food culture. Increasing economic >> pressures only exacerbate these cultural trends, as many families are >> forced >> to work two jobs to afford the basics and have little time to slow down >> and >> have dinner. >> >> But the deterioration of the family meal may be more damaging than we >> realize. “Our lives have gotten so hectic and so busy that if you don’t >> set >> aside time as a family, I think you just get lost,” said Garcia-Prats. >> “Then >> you’re just individuals living in a building, instead of a family living >> in >> a home, supporting each other and being there for each other.” >> Dinner and Happiness >> >> When food advocate and chef Tom French asked a student how she felt after >> his organization, the Experience Food Project, began replacing the bland, >> processed food in her school cafeteria with fresh, healthy school lunches, >> he received an unexpected answer. >> “She gave it some serious thought,” he told me over the phone. “Then she >> said, ‘you know, I feel respected.’” >> >> Moments like this make French believe that adults who prepare quality >> meals >> for children are offering something more important than a nutrition >> lesson: >> They are communicating that they care. This is why the Experience Food >> Project teaches PTA parents about the importance of prioritizing family >> meals and helps them schedule the logistics of dinnertime. >> >> French says there are “mountains of statistical data” correlating family >> dinner with benefits such as better communication, higher academic >> performance, and improved eating habits. Having dinner together boosts >> family cohesiveness and is associated with children’s motivation in >> school, >> positive outlook, and avoidance of high-risk behaviors. Teens who >> frequently >> eat with their families are half as likely to smoke or use pot than those >> who rarely have family dinners, according to researchers at The National >> Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University (CASA). >> >> The correlation between family dinner and well-adjusted teens is so strong >> that CASA launched the first Family Day on September 27, an annual event >> honoring the family meal. The day recognizes that “parental engagement >> fostered during frequent family dinners is an effective tool to help keep >> America’s kids substance free.” >> >> President Obama officially proclaimed Family Day 2010, noting that it >> served >> as an opportunity to “recommit to creating a solid foundation for the >> future >> health and happiness of all our nation’s children.” >> >> Communities from all over the country held Family Day celebrations, and >> some >> made the event into a week-long affair. Families found creative ways to >> celebrate each others’ company over food—putting together homemade pizzas, >> picnicking, doing activities from CASA’s Family Dinner Kit, and eating at >> restaurants offering discounts for the occasion. >> >> Such events draw attention to the ways in which meals together help >> families >> strengthen their relationships, according to Joseph A. Califano Jr., CASA >> Founder and Chairman and former U.S. Secretary of Health, Education, and >> Welfare. “The more often teens have dinner with their parents, the more >> likely they are to report talking to their parents about what’s going on >> in >> their lives,” said Califano in a statement to press. “In today’s busy and >> overscheduled world, taking the time to come together for dinner really >> makes a difference in a child’s life.” >> >> Family dinner also encourages the development of language skills and >> emotional intelligence in children. During dinner conversations, children >> learn how to articulate their feelings and experiences and to communicate >> respect—whether that means asking politely for a dish or talking about >> their >> day at school. Research shows that children who have acquired skills in >> identifying and expressing emotion and negotiating conflict often >> experience >> less distress, have fewer behavior problems, hold more positive attitudes >> about school, and exhibit better academic performance. >> Fusion Cuisine >> >> Finding ways to connect is increasingly important as families become more >> diverse and must negotiate cultural and generational difference. “People >> are >> tired and they are working and they are blending cultures and blending >> generations,” said French, who grew up in a household with his >> great-grandmother. >> >> Families of all types benefit from sharing life’s daily ups and downs >> around >> the table. In a 2010 study of a group of racially diverse, low-income, >> urban >> youth, kids who ate family dinner more frequently had more positive >> perceptions of their communication with their parents. Extended and >> blended >> families may find that dinner solidifies fledgling or fragile bonds. And >> families that unite multiple cultures can make the sharing of specific >> traditions and dishes—which, as French puts it, “carry generations of >> cultural DNA”—into a centerpiece of family bonding. >> >> As Garcia-Prats sees it, dinner is a time when families can celebrate >> their >> differences. “We learn diversity appreciation in our homes,” she said. >> “It’s >> going to be hard to appreciate someone else’s religion or ethnicity or >> culture if we haven’t even learned to appreciate the uniqueness of each >> person in our own family. It’s one of our philosophies: We are 12 unique >> individuals in this home.” >> >> At dinner, we bridge the gaps between us by sharing our food and the >> stories >> of our lives. And the moments we spend together at the table form the >> basis >> of something remarkably profound. Call it what you will—sibling bonding, >> communicating respect, bridging cultures—but at the very least it is, as >> Garcia-Prats told me, ”not just about food.” It is about the way food can >> connect us. >> >> -- >> >> Katherine Gustafson wrote this article for *What Happy Families >> Know*< >> http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/what-happy-families-know/what-happy-families-know >> >, >> >> the Winter 2011 issue of YES! Magazine. Katherine is a freelance writer >> and >> editor with a background in international nonprofit organizations. She is >> currently writing a book about sustainable food. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Ujwala Samarth > (Programme Coordinator, Open Space) > > www.openspaceindia.org > www.infochangeindia.org > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Open-Space/116557125037041 > > B-301, Kanchanjunga Building, > Kanchan Lane, Off Law College Rd,, > Pune 411004 > (020-25457371) > > > > From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 22:32:47 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:32:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <8ECD1295-AC5B-4D1B-8E94-E7ECC6DE2D22@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Anan Valdes good to know about you, just posted ur blog on the FB page yes, there is a long list of writers/artists and others who have dared to tell the truth, Faiz Ahmed Faiz was imprisoned in Pakistan for the same charges, and we all know how good his verses are, True, the opposition to such efforts is as ancient as time itself, so we may continue like as we do, yes, at times it makes you angry, even love is On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: > With all respect, Aditja, allow a fellow writer to Arundhati Roy to salute > her for her courage. In despite to being harassed, her house vandalized, > etc, she keep on doing what a writer is born to do, to provoke, to tell > umconfortable truths, to be subversive, to be seditious, to be apart from > the States and their norms and false allegeancies and false loyalties. > Socrates was poisoned because his discourse was considered sedicious. > I was imprisoned four years because my student group was considered > sedicious. > I don't have a clue if Arundhati Roy is right or wrong, but she is standing > on the line as the writers should do, as independent and critical observers > of their contemporaneity. > Ana Valdes > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > >> Quite interesting to see people here maintaining silence on the provocative >> and seditious speech by fiction-writer Arundhati Roy at the Delhi seminar. >> They still tend to live in the dark ages. Hope a lantern helps such people >> with some light or perhaps a sudden magic. The Court has already set the >> tone. Perhaps, now the 'real' engagement will begin. >> >> Let the mediocre people live in peace, finally. >> >> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, geeta seshu >> wrote: >> >> > I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of debate is truly pathetic. As >> > someone >> > who reads discussions/ debates (but rarely intervenes), I used to get >> some >> > insights into differing points of view. Please make an effort to bring it >> > back to a more intelligent, even if combative, level. >> > >> > Geeta >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gargi Sen wrote: >> > >> > > Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving and >> > > frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, even >> as >> > > they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the >> level >> > of >> > > the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all they >> > > seem >> > > to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults >> and >> > > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a >> > > tedious >> > > and mediocre level that one despairs. >> > > Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of >> > words, >> > > all that that lead to the joys of engagement? >> > > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more >> desirable >> > > than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. >> > > I hope though not forever. >> > > Gargi >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> > > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 >> > > To: Aalok Aima >> > > Cc: sarai list >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - >> > > comparing >> > > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru >> > > >> > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of >> > Arundhati >> > > Roy's  recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the directive >> > of >> > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari  Bagha" asks delhi police to >> > "lodge >> > > an FIR under relevant provisions  of the Indian Penal Code" against >> some >> > > named persons (which includes  arundhati roy) for their speeches made >> in >> > > the >> > > seminar on  21/10/2010  ........ it does not say anything about 'waging >> > war >> > > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported otherwise >> > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- >> > > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes >> the >> > > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari  Bagha as saying - "The Delhi >> > police >> > > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant  provisions of the >> > Indian >> > > Penal Code and file a report in this regard  on January 6, 2011, the >> next >> > > date of hearing,'' metropolitan  magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, >> > > pointing out that the court has  to step in since even after an offence >> > was >> > > disclosed, the police  failed to register an FIR. The sections include >> > > those >> > > relating to  sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a >> > > section >> > > of  Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other >> > > paper's reports on the matter, you will see  exactly the same language. >> > > Which in itself is not surprising, as the  complainant has sought >> remedy >> > > under those precise sections, including  the one pertaining to 'waging >> > war >> > > against the state' and so, the  Magistrate, in instructing the Police >> to >> > > look into the filing of the  FIR, has to instruct the police to file >> > their >> > > report with reference  to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati >> Roy >> > > refers to the court asking the police to file  an FIR for 'waging war >> > > against the state' against her and others  (including, incidentally, >> me) >> > > she >> > > is not trifling by any means. What  she has said in her statement >> > > faithfully >> > > mirrors the reports that  have appeared in the press. I suspect, that >> > > rather >> > > than her, it is  you who seems not to have read the reports with care. >> > Now, >> > > as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the  need >> for >> > a >> > > plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu  and Kashmir >> > > following the ratification of the accession to the state  of Jammu and >> > > Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent  Assembly of Jammu and >> > > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a >> > posting >> > > on this list on the matter of 23 statements  made by Jawaharlal Nehru >> on >> > > the >> > > matter of ascertaining the will of  the people of Jammu and Kashmir on >> > the >> > > 25th of August, 2008. The link  to the posting is as follows - >> > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I >> > > don't >> > > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its  entirety, >> because >> > > much of the matter is already contained in  Arundhati Roy's statement >> to >> > > the >> > > Hindu. But since you have produced  the magic date of the 15th of >> > February, >> > > 1954, as a threshold, let me  just reproduce two statements made by >> > > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha >> > > (Chamber >> > > of States) of the Indian  Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, >> 1954 >> > - >> > > ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance >> >  and >> > > international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every assurance >> > and >> > > International commitment' includes the  commitment to hold a >> plebiscite, >> > as >> > > mandated by several United  Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed >> that >> > > the >> > > ratification of the  Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the >> > > Constituent Assembly  of J & K was the same thing as an expression of >> the >> > > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into the >> > > Indian Union,  then, he would not have needed to state that >> > "international >> > > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international >>  commitments, >> > > which can have been nothing other than the holding of  the plebiscite >> > under >> > > international auspieces, could have been said to  be 'standing' if, and >> > > only >> > > if, they had not yet been seen to have  borne fruit. Clearly, here, >> Nehru >> > > on >> > > the 18th of May 1954 still sees  the plebiscite as a possibility. >> > Further, >> > > On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full  year and >> > five >> > > weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a  statement in the >> > > Indian parliament, says -   ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied about >> > > between India and  Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an >> > > individuality of its   own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill >> and >> > > consent of the    people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a >> > > distinction here between the wills of the  entities he calls India, >> > > Pakistan >> > > and Kashmir. Which means that he  does not conflate the will of the >> > entity >> > > he calls India, with the  entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his >> eyes, >> > > (these are his words,  not mine) is seized of a will and individuality >> of >> > > its own, distinct  from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, "Nothing >> > CAN >> > > be done without the goodwill and  consent of the people of Kashmir". >>  Had >> > > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS  BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent >> of >> > > the >> > > people of Kashmir",  your contention, that Nehru treated the >> ratification >> > > of >> > > the  Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and >> > >  Kashmir >> > > as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight,  because >> > then >> > > we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of  the >> constituent >> > > assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill  and consent' of >> the >> > > people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you  wish he had said. >> His >> > > statement clearly implies that he believed that  as of 31st of March, >> > 1955 >> > > a >> > > year and a month after the J&K  Constitutent Assembly's so called >> > > 'ratification' that the "goodwill  and consent" of the people of J&K >> was >> > > yet >> > > to be ascertained. So,  following from this, as far as Nehru is >> > concerned, >> > > it is very  difficult logically to assert that he believed that the >> > > Constituent  Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely >> > > resembling  the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the >> > people >> > > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in >> > Arundhati >> > > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in >>  the >> > > popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not >> > >  comfortable >> > > for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that  March 1955 comes >> a >> > > year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that >> > Nehru >> > > changed his public stance on the  question of a plebiscite post >> February >> > > 1954 is not borne out by these  two quotations. You say - "this is >> where >> > > arundhati roy reveals her  stupidity and how little she knows about >> > > kashmir".   I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. >> > best >> > > Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : >> "My >> > > reaction to today's court order directing the  > Delhi Police to file >> an >> > > FIR >> > > against me for waging war against the  > state" > > has the court asked >> > the >> > > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy  > for 'waging war against >> > the >> > > state' or is arundhati trifling with  > facts? > > the directive of >> > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks  > delhi police to >> > > "lodge >> > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the  > Indian Penal Code" against >> > some >> > > named persons (which includes  > arundhati roy) for their speeches made >> > in >> > > the seminar on  > 21/10/2010  ........ it does not say anything about >> > > 'waging war  > against the state' > > it is another thing that >> arundhati >> > > roy's utterance could be  > interpreted as 'waging war against the >> state' >> > > >> > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find  > >> > > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or  > >> that >> > a >> > > court of law should be approached with the complaint that  > delhi >> police >> > > have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches'  > by arundhati >> > > (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement >> > (quoted >> > > below from  > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on >> > > kashmir with those of nehru  > on kashmir and suggests that delhi >> police >> > > "should posthumously file  > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > >> > > (her >> > > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a  > regurgitation of >> > what >> > > has since long been put forward as arguments  > by the secessionist and >> > > secession supporting propaganda  > machines ...... geelani also used >> the >> > > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals >> her >> > > stupidity and how little  > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing >> her >> > > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy  > gives us a list of 13 >> > > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna  > menon) > > what >> arundhati >> > > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the  > position of goi (and of >> > > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k  > to india as confirmedly >> > final >> > > (in what goi considers as fulfilling  > it's part of the un resolution >> on >> > > kashmir) is on the basis of the  > ratification of j&k's accession to >> > india >> > > by the constituent  > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru >> > > statements >> > > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that  > ratification date of >> > > 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the  > status of j&k with respect >> > to >> > > india was subjected to a lot of  > questioning (including the un >> > > resolution) >> > > and nehru acknowledged  > that as is reflected in his statements > > >> > after >> > > the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly,  > goi >> > treated >> > > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable  > and nehru did >> > not >> > > make any statement that carried the vein of the  > statements 1 to 12 >> > > quoted >> > > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own >> > > statements on  > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and on >> > > that >> > > basis  > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted >> then >> > >  > >> > > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok >> aima >> > > >> > > > >> > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > >> They >> > > can >> > > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too:  > Arundhati >> Roy >> > > >> > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the >> > Delhi >> > > Police to  > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: >> > > Perhaps  > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal >> > Nehru >> > > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to >> the >> > > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian  > Prime Minister Pandit >> > Jawaharlal >> > > Nehru said, ³I should like to make  > it clear that the question of >> > aiding >> > > Kashmir in this emergency is  > not designed in any way to influence >> the >> > > state to accede to India.  > Our view which we have repeatedly made >> > public >> > > is that the question  > of accession in any disputed territory or state >> > > must >> > > be decided in  > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this >> >  > >> > > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of  > >> > > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other >> > > telegram >> > > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said,  > ³Kashmir's accession to >> > India >> > > was accepted by us at the request of  > the Maharaja's government and >> the >> > > most numerously representative  > popular organization in the state >> which >> > > is >> > > predominantly Muslim.  > Even then it was accepted on condition that as >> > > soon >> > > as law and  > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would >> decide >> > > the  > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either  > >> > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > >> Accession >> > > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd >> >  > >> > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise  > >> > > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity  > >> to >> > be >> > > given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for  > them >> > > ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it  > has >> been >> > > our >> > > policy that where there is a dispute about the  > accession of a state >> to >> > > either Dominion, the accession must be made  > by the people of that >> > state. >> > > It is in accordance with this policy  > that we have added a proviso to >> > the >> > > Instrument of Accession of  > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to >> > the >> > > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit  > Nehru said, ³We have declared >> > that >> > > the fate of Kashmir is  > ultimately to be decided by the people. That >> > > pledge we have given  > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the >> > world. >> > > We will not and  > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. 368 >> > > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed  > to the PM of Pakistan, >> Pandit >> > > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated  > that as soon as peace and >> order >> > > have been established, Kashmir  > should decide of accession by >> > Plebiscite >> > > or referendum under  > international auspices such as those of United >> > > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian >> > > Constituent Assembly on 25th  > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³In >> > > order >> > > to establish our bona  > fide, we have suggested that when the people >> are >> > > given the chance  > to decide their future, this should be done under >> the >> > > supervision  > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations >> > > Organisation.  > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked >> force >> > > should  > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his >> > > statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March,  > 1948, >> > Pandit >> > > Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went  > out of our way >> > to >> > > make a unilateral declaration that we would abide  > by the will of the >> > > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or  > referendum. We >> > insisted >> > > further that the Government of Kashmir must  > immediately become a >> > popular >> > > government. We have adhered to that  > position throughout and we are >> > > prepared to have a Plebiscite with  > every protection of fair voting >> and >> > > to >> > > abide by the decision of the  > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum or >> > > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, >> 1951, >> > > as >> > > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit  > >> > Nehru >> > > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United  > >> Nations >> > > reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to  > express >> their >> > > will and is always ready to do so. We have always  > right from the >> > > beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people  > deciding their >> fate >> > by >> > > referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was  > our proposal long before >> > the >> > > United Nations came into the picture.  > Ultimately the final decision >> of >> > > the settlement, which must come,  > has first of all to be made >> basically >> > > by >> > > the people of Kashmir and  > secondly, as between Pakistan and India >> > > directly. Of course it must  > be remembered that we (India and >> Pakistan) >> > > have reached a great  > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that >> > many >> > > basic features  > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the >> > > people of  > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about >  their >> future >> > > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that  > even without >> our >> > > agreement no country is going to hold on to  > Kashmir against the will >> > of >> > > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on >> > 6th >> > > July, 1951  > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, >> 1951, >> > > Pandit  > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize >> > for >> > > > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a  > >> > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual  > existence >> > and >> > > its people must be the final arbiters of their  > future. It is here >> > today >> > > that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in  > the battlefield but in the >> > > minds >> > > of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N.  > >> > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not  > >> only >> > > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of  > the >> > > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India  > >> shall >> > be >> > > decided through the democratic method of a free and  > impartial >> > plebiscite >> > > under the auspices of the United Nations but  > is anxious that the >> > > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite  > should be created as >> > quickly >> > > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar >> > > Patrika, >> > > Calcutta, on 2nd January,  > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's >> > > question >> > > in the Indian  > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going >> to >> > do >> > > about  > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru >> > said, >> > > > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the >>  > >> > > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to  > >> > the >> > > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide  > by the >> > > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I  > would >> have >> > > no >> > > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to  > United Nations >> and >> > > given our word of honour for a peaceful  > solution. As a great nation >> we >> > > cannot go back on it. We have left  > the question for final solution >> to >> > > the >> > > people of Kashmir and we are  > determined to abide by their decision.² >> > >> > > >> > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952,  > >> > Pandit >> > > Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic  > proposition >> > > that >> > > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided  > finally by the goodwill >> > and >> > > pleasure of her people. The goodwill  > and pleasure of this Parliament >> > is >> > > of no importance in this matter,  > not because this Parliament does >> not >> > > have the strength to decide  > the question of Kashmir but because any >> > kind >> > > of imposition would be  > against the principles that this Parliament >> > > holds. >> > > Kashmir is very  > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree >> or >> > > adverse  > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench >> and >> > a >> > > > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not  > >> > > wish >> > > to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep  > them >> > > against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to  > >> stress >> > > that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the  > future of >> > > Kashmir. It is not that we have >  merely said that to the United >> Nations >> > > and to the people of  > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is >> > borne >> > > out by the  > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but >> > > everywhere.  > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and >> > > expense and  > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave >> if >> > it >> > > was  > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go.  > >> > > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay  > >> against >> > > the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose  > ourselves on >> them >> > > on >> > > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement >> in >> > > the >> > > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as  > published in Hindustan Times New >> > Delhi >> > > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit  > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the most >> > > difficult of all these  > problems between India and Pakistan. We >> should >> > > also remember that  > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between >> India >> > > and >> > > Pakistan but  > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its >> own. >> > > Nothing  > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people >> of >> >  > >> > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking >> > part >> > > in  > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council on >> >  > >> > > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon  > >> said, >> > > ³So >> > > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the  > statements >> that >> > I >> > > have made in this council which can be  > interpreted to mean that we >> > will >> > > not honour international  > obligations. I want to say for the purpose >> of >> > > the record that there  > is nothing that has been said on behalf of the >> > > Government of India  > which in the slightest degree indicates that the >> > > Government of  > India or the Union of India will dishonour any >> > > international  > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open >> > discussion >> > > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To >> subscribe: >> > > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with  > subscribe in >> the >> > > subject header. > To unsubscribe: >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata >> Sengupta >> > > The >> > > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net >> > > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net >> > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open >> discussion >> > > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: >> send >> > > an >> > > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> > > header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-listList >> > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> India Editor >> The Indian, Australia >> >> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > http://www.crusading.se > Gondolgatan 2 l tr > 12832 Skarpnäck > Sweden > tel +468-943288 > mobil 4670-3213370 > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your > eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long > to return. > — Leonardo da Vinci > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 23:51:07 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:51:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru In-Reply-To: References: <8ECD1295-AC5B-4D1B-8E94-E7ECC6DE2D22@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Ana, Thanks for writing in. I understand what you mean to convey. Though I'm sorry, I may not be as generous to respect 'anything' about Arundhati Roy. She is using 'Kashmiris' as fodder for her activism-business to gain publicity and quick bucks. She continues to stay in prime localities, owns bunglows where 'capitalists' and 'entrepreneurs' stay. She is cheating the poor of this nation. She is as well cheating the 'Maoist Terrorists' by illegally occupying tribal land. I understand you to be a lady of metal. Arundhati is right opposite. She should shift to Pakistan if she is the lady of her words. I re-write the slogan she uttered in the Delhi Anti-India Communal Seminar "Bhookha - Nanga Hindustan, Jaan Se Pyaara Pakistan'. Otherwise, let her hear music from the honorable Court. She was waiting for the FIR to be registered. It has been now. Congratulations to all the patriots! warm regards On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: > With all respect, Aditja, allow a fellow writer to Arundhati Roy to salute > her for her courage. In despite to being harassed, her house vandalized, > etc, she keep on doing what a writer is born to do, to provoke, to tell > umconfortable truths, to be subversive, to be seditious, to be apart from > the States and their norms and false allegeancies and false loyalties. > Socrates was poisoned because his discourse was considered sedicious. > I was imprisoned four years because my student group was considered > sedicious. > I don't have a clue if Arundhati Roy is right or wrong, but she is standing > on the line as the writers should do, as independent and critical observers > of their contemporaneity. > Ana Valdes > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > >> Quite interesting to see people here maintaining silence on the >> provocative >> and seditious speech by fiction-writer Arundhati Roy at the Delhi seminar. >> They still tend to live in the dark ages. Hope a lantern helps such people >> with some light or perhaps a sudden magic. The Court has already set the >> tone. Perhaps, now the 'real' engagement will begin. >> >> Let the mediocre people live in peace, finally. >> >> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, geeta seshu >> wrote: >> >> > I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of debate is truly pathetic. As >> > someone >> > who reads discussions/ debates (but rarely intervenes), I used to get >> some >> > insights into differing points of view. Please make an effort to bring >> it >> > back to a more intelligent, even if combative, level. >> > >> > Geeta >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gargi Sen wrote: >> > >> > > Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving >> and >> > > frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, even >> as >> > > they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the >> level >> > of >> > > the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all >> they >> > > seem >> > > to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults >> and >> > > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a >> > > tedious >> > > and mediocre level that one despairs. >> > > Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of >> > words, >> > > all that that lead to the joys of engagement? >> > > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more >> desirable >> > > than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. >> > > I hope though not forever. >> > > Gargi >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> > > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 >> > > To: Aalok Aima >> > > Cc: sarai list >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - >> > > comparing >> > > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru >> > > >> > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of >> > Arundhati >> > > Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the >> directive >> > of >> > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to >> > "lodge >> > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against >> some >> > > named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches made >> in >> > > the >> > > seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about >> 'waging >> > war >> > > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported >> otherwise >> > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- >> > > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India quotes >> the >> > > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi >> > police >> > > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the >> > Indian >> > > Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the >> next >> > > date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha said, >> > > pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an >> offence >> > was >> > > disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections include >> > > those >> > > relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a >> > > section >> > > of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any other >> > > paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same >> language. >> > > Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought >> remedy >> > > under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to 'waging >> > war >> > > against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the Police >> to >> > > look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file >> > their >> > > report with reference to these specific sections. So, when Arundhati >> Roy >> > > refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging war >> > > against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, >> me) >> > > she >> > > is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement >> > > faithfully >> > > mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, that >> > > rather >> > > than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with care. >> > Now, >> > > as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need >> for >> > a >> > > plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir >> > > following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu and >> > > Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu >> and >> > > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a >> > posting >> > > on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal Nehru >> on >> > > the >> > > matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir on >> > the >> > > 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - >> > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.html I >> > > don't >> > > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, >> because >> > > much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's statement >> to >> > > the >> > > Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of >> > February, >> > > 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by >> > > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha >> > > (Chamber >> > > of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, >> 1954 >> > - >> > > ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every assurance >> > and >> > > international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every >> assurance >> > and >> > > International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a >> plebiscite, >> > as >> > > mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed >> that >> > > the >> > > ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the >> > > Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression of >> the >> > > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into >> the >> > > Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that >> > "international >> > > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international >> commitments, >> > > which can have been nothing other than the holding of the plebiscite >> > under >> > > international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, >> and >> > > only >> > > if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, >> Nehru >> > > on >> > > the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. >> > Further, >> > > On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year and >> > five >> > > weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in >> the >> > > Indian parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied >> about >> > > between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an >> > > individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill >> and >> > > consent of the people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a >> > > distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, >> > > Pakistan >> > > and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the >> > entity >> > > he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his >> eyes, >> > > (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and individuality >> of >> > > its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, >> "Nothing >> > CAN >> > > be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". >> Had >> > > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and consent >> of >> > > the >> > > people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the >> ratification >> > > of >> > > the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and >> > > Kashmir >> > > as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, because >> > then >> > > we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the >> constituent >> > > assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' of >> the >> > > people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. >> His >> > > statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of March, >> > 1955 >> > > a >> > > year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called >> > > 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K >> was >> > > yet >> > > to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is >> > concerned, >> > > it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the >> > > Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything closely >> > > resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the >> > people >> > > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in >> > Arundhati >> > > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in >> the >> > > popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not >> > > comfortable >> > > for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 >> comes a >> > > year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that >> > Nehru >> > > changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post >> February >> > > 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is >> where >> > > arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about >> > > kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati Roy. >> > best >> > > Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY : >> "My >> > > reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to file >> an >> > > FIR >> > > against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court >> asked >> > the >> > > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war against >> > the >> > > state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of >> > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police to >> > > "lodge >> > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" against >> > some >> > > named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches >> made >> > in >> > > the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about >> > > 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that >> arundhati >> > > roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the >> state' >> > > >> > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > >> > > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > >> that >> > a >> > > court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi >> police >> > > have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by arundhati >> > > (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement >> > (quoted >> > > below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements on >> > > kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi >> police >> > > "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > >> > >> > > (her >> > > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation of >> > what >> > > has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist >> and >> > > secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used >> the >> > > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals >> her >> > > stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing >> her >> > > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of 13 >> > > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what >> arundhati >> > > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and >> of >> > > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as confirmedly >> > final >> > > (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un resolution >> on >> > > kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession to >> > india >> > > by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru >> > > statements >> > > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of >> > > 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with >> respect >> > to >> > > india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un >> > > resolution) >> > > and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > >> > after >> > > the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi >> > treated >> > > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru did >> > not >> > > make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to 12 >> > > quoted >> > > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own >> > > statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and >> on >> > > that >> > > basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted >> then >> > > > >> > > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok >> aima >> > > >> > > > >> > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > >> They >> > > can >> > > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > Arundhati >> Roy >> > > >> > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the >> > Delhi >> > > Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the state: >> > > Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal >> > Nehru >> > > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to >> the >> > > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit >> > Jawaharlal >> > > Nehru said, ³I should like to make > it clear that the question of >> > aiding >> > > Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence >> the >> > > state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made >> > public >> > > is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or >> state >> > > must >> > > be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to >> this >> > > >> > > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > >> > > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other >> > > telegram >> > > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to >> > India >> > > was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government and >> the >> > > most numerously representative > popular organization in the state >> which >> > > is >> > > predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that >> as >> > > soon >> > > as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would >> decide >> > > the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either >> > >> > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > >> Accession >> > > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on >> 2nd >> > > >> > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > >> > > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > >> to >> > be >> > > given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them >> > > ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has >> been >> > > our >> > > policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a state >> to >> > > either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that >> > state. >> > > It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso >> to >> > the >> > > Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast to >> > the >> > > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have declared >> > that >> > > the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. That >> > > pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the >> > world. >> > > We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. >> 368 >> > > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, >> Pandit >> > > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and >> order >> > > have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by >> > Plebiscite >> > > or referendum under > international auspices such as those of United >> > > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian >> > > Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³In >> > > order >> > > to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the people >> are >> > > given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done under >> the >> > > supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations >> > > Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked >> force >> > > should > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his >> > > statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, >> > Pandit >> > > Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our >> way >> > to >> > > make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of >> the >> > > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We >> > insisted >> > > further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a >> > popular >> > > government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we are >> > > prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair voting >> and >> > > to >> > > abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum or >> > > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, >> 1951, >> > > as >> > > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > >> > Nehru >> > > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > >> Nations >> > > reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express >> their >> > > will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the >> > > beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their >> fate >> > by >> > > referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long >> before >> > the >> > > United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final decision >> of >> > > the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made >> basically >> > > by >> > > the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India >> > > directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and >> Pakistan) >> > > have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is that >> > many >> > > basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the >> > > people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their >> future >> > > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without >> our >> > > agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the >> will >> > of >> > > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee >> on >> > 6th >> > > July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, >> 1951, >> > > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize >> > for >> > > > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > >> > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > >> existence >> > and >> > > its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here >> > today >> > > that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in the >> > > minds >> > > of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > >> > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > >> only >> > > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > the >> > > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > >> shall >> > be >> > > decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial >> > plebiscite >> > > under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the >> > > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as >> > quickly >> > > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar >> > > Patrika, >> > > Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's >> > > question >> > > in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government going >> to >> > do >> > > about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru >> > said, >> > > > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the >> > >> > > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > >> > the >> > > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by >> the >> > > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would >> have >> > > no >> > > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations >> and >> > > given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great nation >> we >> > > cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final solution >> to >> > > the >> > > people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their >> decision.² > >> > > >> > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > >> > Pandit >> > > Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > >> proposition >> > > that >> > > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the >> goodwill >> > and >> > > pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this >> Parliament >> > is >> > > of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does >> not >> > > have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because any >> > kind >> > > of imposition would be > against the principles that this Parliament >> > > holds. >> > > Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree >> or >> > > adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench >> and >> > a >> > > > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not >> > >> > > wish >> > > to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > them >> > > against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > >> stress >> > > that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future of >> > > Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United >> Nations >> > > and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is >> > borne >> > > out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but >> > > everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and >> > > expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave >> if >> > it >> > > was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > >> > > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > >> against >> > > the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on >> them >> > > on >> > > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his statement >> in >> > > the >> > > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New >> > Delhi >> > > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the most >> > > difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We >> should >> > > also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between >> India >> > > and >> > > Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its >> own. >> > > Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the people >> of >> > > >> > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while taking >> > part >> > > in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council >> on >> > > >> > > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > >> said, >> > > ³So >> > > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements >> that >> > I >> > > have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that we >> > will >> > > not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the purpose >> of >> > > the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of >> the >> > > Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that >> the >> > > Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any >> > > international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open >> > discussion >> > > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To >> subscribe: >> > > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in >> the >> > > subject header. > To unsubscribe: >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata >> Sengupta >> > > The >> > > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net >> > > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net >> > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open >> discussion >> > > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: >> send >> > > an >> > > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> > > header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-listList >> > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> India Editor >> The Indian, Australia >> >> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > http://www.crusading.se > Gondolgatan 2 l tr > 12832 Skarpnäck > Sweden > tel +468-943288 > mobil 4670-3213370 > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with > your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always > long to return. > — Leonardo da Vinci > -- Aditya Raj Kaul India Editor The Indian, Australia Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From feddabonn at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 00:09:20 2010 From: feddabonn at gmail.com (baruk feddabonn) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 07:39:20 +1300 Subject: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy (nanga bhukha hindustan) Message-ID: hi aditya, you say: "Arundhati is right opposite. She should shift to Pakistan if she is the lady of her words. I re-write the slogan she uttered in the Delhi Anti-India Communal Seminar "Bhookha - Nanga Hindustan, Jaan Se Pyaara Pakistan'." i understand the official transcript has her saying "...what broke my heart on the street of Srinagar was when people say "Nanga Bhukha Hindustan, Jaan se Pyara Pakistan" and I said no because "Nanga Bhukha Hindustan" is with you..." cheers, baruk > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:51:07 +0530 > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > To: sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - > comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Dear Ana, > > Thanks for writing in. I understand what you mean to convey. Though I'm > sorry, I may not be as generous to respect 'anything' about Arundhati Roy. > She is using 'Kashmiris' as fodder for her activism-business to gain > publicity and quick bucks. She continues to stay in prime localities, owns > bunglows where 'capitalists' and 'entrepreneurs' stay. She is cheating the > poor of this nation. She is as well cheating the 'Maoist Terrorists' by > illegally occupying tribal land. > > I understand you to be a lady of metal. Arundhati is right opposite. She > should shift to Pakistan if she is the lady of her words. I re-write the > slogan she uttered in the Delhi Anti-India Communal Seminar "Bhookha - > Nanga > Hindustan, Jaan Se Pyaara Pakistan'. > > Otherwise, let her hear music from the honorable Court. She was waiting for > the FIR to be registered. It has been now. Congratulations to all the > patriots! > > warm regards > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: > > > With all respect, Aditja, allow a fellow writer to Arundhati Roy to > salute > > her for her courage. In despite to being harassed, her house vandalized, > > etc, she keep on doing what a writer is born to do, to provoke, to tell > > umconfortable truths, to be subversive, to be seditious, to be apart from > > the States and their norms and false allegeancies and false loyalties. > > Socrates was poisoned because his discourse was considered sedicious. > > I was imprisoned four years because my student group was considered > > sedicious. > > I don't have a clue if Arundhati Roy is right or wrong, but she is > standing > > on the line as the writers should do, as independent and critical > observers > > of their contemporaneity. > > Ana Valdes > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > kauladityaraj at gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > >> Quite interesting to see people here maintaining silence on the > >> provocative > >> and seditious speech by fiction-writer Arundhati Roy at the Delhi > seminar. > >> They still tend to live in the dark ages. Hope a lantern helps such > people > >> with some light or perhaps a sudden magic. The Court has already set the > >> tone. Perhaps, now the 'real' engagement will begin. > >> > >> Let the mediocre people live in peace, finally. > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, geeta seshu > >> wrote: > >> > >> > I do agree with Gargi Sen. The level of debate is truly pathetic. As > >> > someone > >> > who reads discussions/ debates (but rarely intervenes), I used to get > >> some > >> > insights into differing points of view. Please make an effort to bring > >> it > >> > back to a more intelligent, even if combative, level. > >> > > >> > Geeta > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gargi Sen > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Thanks Sudhha for one more considered reply. Now if only the raving > >> and > >> > > frothing people on the Sarai list would send considered replies, > even > >> as > >> > > they rave and froth, which, incidentally I don¹t mind, I think the > >> level > >> > of > >> > > the discourse would rise considerably. Unfortunately, instead, all > >> they > >> > > seem > >> > > to be posting in the way of arguments are a series of slurs, insults > >> and > >> > > name-calling. Unfortunately, even the name-calling is left at such a > >> > > tedious > >> > > and mediocre level that one despairs. > >> > > Where is the wit, the arguments crafted with diligence, the play of > >> > words, > >> > > all that that lead to the joys of engagement? > >> > > The colloquial Hindi proverb that an intelligent enemy is more > >> desirable > >> > > than a mediocre friend is put to rest on the Sarai list. > >> > > I hope though not forever. > >> > > Gargi > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> > > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:35:34 +0530 > >> > > To: Aalok Aima > >> > > Cc: sarai list > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - > >> > > comparing > >> > > her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru > >> > > > >> > > Dear Mr. Aima, I am writing this in response to your criticism of > >> > Arundhati > >> > > Roy's recent statement published in the Hindu. You say, "the > >> directive > >> > of > >> > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks delhi police to > >> > "lodge > >> > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the Indian Penal Code" against > >> some > >> > > named persons (which includes arundhati roy) for their speeches > made > >> in > >> > > the > >> > > seminar on 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything about > >> 'waging > >> > war > >> > > against the state' The Times of India, seems to have reported > >> otherwise > >> > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-court-calls-for-FIR- > >> > > against-Roy-Geelani/articleshow/7002100.cms The Times of India > quotes > >> the > >> > > Metropolitan Magistrate, Navita Kumari Bagha as saying - "The Delhi > >> > police > >> > > is hereby directed to lodge an FIR under relevant provisions of the > >> > Indian > >> > > Penal Code and file a report in this regard on January 6, 2011, the > >> next > >> > > date of hearing,'' metropolitan magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha > said, > >> > > pointing out that the court has to step in since even after an > >> offence > >> > was > >> > > disclosed, the police failed to register an FIR. The sections > include > >> > > those > >> > > relating to sedition, waging war against the state of the IPC and a > >> > > section > >> > > of Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)." If you read any > other > >> > > paper's reports on the matter, you will see exactly the same > >> language. > >> > > Which in itself is not surprising, as the complainant has sought > >> remedy > >> > > under those precise sections, including the one pertaining to > 'waging > >> > war > >> > > against the state' and so, the Magistrate, in instructing the > Police > >> to > >> > > look into the filing of the FIR, has to instruct the police to file > >> > their > >> > > report with reference to these specific sections. So, when > Arundhati > >> Roy > >> > > refers to the court asking the police to file an FIR for 'waging > war > >> > > against the state' against her and others (including, incidentally, > >> me) > >> > > she > >> > > is not trifling by any means. What she has said in her statement > >> > > faithfully > >> > > mirrors the reports that have appeared in the press. I suspect, > that > >> > > rather > >> > > than her, it is you who seems not to have read the reports with > care. > >> > Now, > >> > > as for your contention, that Nehru changed his position on the need > >> for > >> > a > >> > > plebiscite to ascertain the will of the people of Jaamu and Kashmir > >> > > following the ratification of the accession to the state of Jammu > and > >> > > Kashmir to the Union of India by the Constituent Assembly of Jammu > >> and > >> > > Kashmir. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I had published a > >> > posting > >> > > on this list on the matter of 23 statements made by Jawaharlal > Nehru > >> on > >> > > the > >> > > matter of ascertaining the will of the people of Jammu and Kashmir > on > >> > the > >> > > 25th of August, 2008. The link to the posting is as follows - > >> > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014098.htmlI > >> > > don't > >> > > want to reproduce the contents of this posting in its entirety, > >> because > >> > > much of the matter is already contained in Arundhati Roy's > statement > >> to > >> > > the > >> > > Hindu. But since you have produced the magic date of the 15th of > >> > February, > >> > > 1954, as a threshold, let me just reproduce two statements made by > >> > > Jawaharlal Nehru AFTER this date. In a statement in the Rajya Sabha > >> > > (Chamber > >> > > of States) of the Indian Parliament, Nehru says on the 18th of May, > >> 1954 > >> > - > >> > > ³But so far as the Government of India are concerned, every > assurance > >> > and > >> > > international commitment in regard to Kashmir stands.² 'Every > >> assurance > >> > and > >> > > International commitment' includes the commitment to hold a > >> plebiscite, > >> > as > >> > > mandated by several United Nations resolutions. If, Nehru believed > >> that > >> > > the > >> > > ratification of the Maharaja's of J & K's accession to India by the > >> > > Constituent Assembly of J & K was the same thing as an expression > of > >> the > >> > > popular will vis- a-vis the question of the integration of J&K into > >> the > >> > > Indian Union, then, he would not have needed to state that > >> > "international > >> > > commitments in regard to Kashmir stand". The international > >> commitments, > >> > > which can have been nothing other than the holding of the > plebiscite > >> > under > >> > > international auspieces, could have been said to be 'standing' if, > >> and > >> > > only > >> > > if, they had not yet been seen to have borne fruit. Clearly, here, > >> Nehru > >> > > on > >> > > the 18th of May 1954 still sees the plebiscite as a possibility. > >> > Further, > >> > > On 31st of March, 1955, (which as you will notice, is a full year > and > >> > five > >> > > weeks after the 15th of Februrary, 1954), Nehru, in a statement in > >> the > >> > > Indian parliament, says - ³Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied > >> about > >> > > between India and Pakistan but it has a soul of its own and an > >> > > individuality of its own. Nothing can be done without the goodwill > >> and > >> > > consent of the people of Kashmir.² First of all, Nehru makes a > >> > > distinction here between the wills of the entities he calls India, > >> > > Pakistan > >> > > and Kashmir. Which means that he does not conflate the will of the > >> > entity > >> > > he calls India, with the entity he calls Kashmir. Kashmir, in his > >> eyes, > >> > > (these are his words, not mine) is seized of a will and > individuality > >> of > >> > > its own, distinct from India, and Pakistan. Next, Nehru says, > >> "Nothing > >> > CAN > >> > > be done without the goodwill and consent of the people of Kashmir". > >> Had > >> > > Nehru said - "Nothing HAS BEEN DONE without the goodwill and > consent > >> of > >> > > the > >> > > people of Kashmir", your contention, that Nehru treated the > >> ratification > >> > > of > >> > > the Maharaja's accession by the Constitutent Assembly of Jammu and > >> > > Kashmir > >> > > as the final word on the matter, would have had some weight, > because > >> > then > >> > > we would be arguing about whether or not the decision of the > >> constituent > >> > > assembly of J & K actually represented the 'goodwill and consent' > of > >> the > >> > > people of Kashmir. But Nehru did not say what you wish he had said. > >> His > >> > > statement clearly implies that he believed that as of 31st of > March, > >> > 1955 > >> > > a > >> > > year and a month after the J&K Constitutent Assembly's so called > >> > > 'ratification' that the "goodwill and consent" of the people of J&K > >> was > >> > > yet > >> > > to be ascertained. So, following from this, as far as Nehru is > >> > concerned, > >> > > it is very difficult logically to assert that he believed that the > >> > > Constituent Assembly of J&K's ratification amount to anything > closely > >> > > resembling the final statement of the "goodwill and consent" of the > >> > people > >> > > of J&K. Incidentally, this quotation, from 1955, was included in > >> > Arundhati > >> > > Roy's statement in the Hindu. I suppose, in your haste to indulge in > >> the > >> > > popular pastime of attacking people who say things that are not > >> > > comfortable > >> > > for Indian Jingoism, you had overlooked the fact that March 1955 > >> comes a > >> > > year and a bit, AFTER, February 1954. Mr. Aima, Your contention that > >> > Nehru > >> > > changed his public stance on the question of a plebiscite post > >> February > >> > > 1954 is not borne out by these two quotations. You say - "this is > >> where > >> > > arundhati roy reveals her stupidity and how little she knows about > >> > > kashmir". I wonder who looks more stupid now, you, or Arundhati > Roy. > >> > best > >> > > Shuddha On 28-Nov-10, at 3:57 PM, Aalok Aima wrote: > ARUNDHATI ROY > : > >> "My > >> > > reaction to today's court order directing the > Delhi Police to > file > >> an > >> > > FIR > >> > > against me for waging war against the > state" > > has the court > >> asked > >> > the > >> > > police to file an FIR against arundhati roy > for 'waging war > against > >> > the > >> > > state' or is arundhati trifling with > facts? > > the directive of > >> > > "Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha" asks > delhi police > to > >> > > "lodge > >> > > an FIR under relevant provisions of the > Indian Penal Code" > against > >> > some > >> > > named persons (which includes > arundhati roy) for their speeches > >> made > >> > in > >> > > the seminar on > 21/10/2010 ........ it does not say anything > about > >> > > 'waging war > against the state' > > it is another thing that > >> arundhati > >> > > roy's utterance could be > interpreted as 'waging war against the > >> state' > >> > > > >> > > > as she did in an earlier statement, arundhati seems to find > > >> > > unacceptable that someone should seek prosecution against her or > > >> that > >> > a > >> > > court of law should be approached with the complaint that > delhi > >> police > >> > > have not taken cognisance of the 'anti-india speeches' > by > arundhati > >> > > (amongst others) > > so arundhati roy issues yet one more statement > >> > (quoted > >> > > below from > 'the hindu') > > she seeks to compare her statements > on > >> > > kashmir with those of nehru > on kashmir and suggests that delhi > >> police > >> > > "should posthumously file > a charge against Jawaharlal Nehru too" > > > >> > > >> > > (her > >> > > statement, giving quotes of nehru on kashmir, is a > regurgitation > of > >> > what > >> > > has since long been put forward as arguments > by the secessionist > >> and > >> > > secession supporting propaganda > machines ...... geelani also used > >> the > >> > > quotes just a few days back) > > this is where arundhati roy reveals > >> her > >> > > stupidity and how little > she knows about kashmir > > in comparing > >> her > >> > > utterances with those of nehru, arundhati roy > gives us a list of > 13 > >> > > quotes attributed to nehru (and 1 of krishna > menon) > > what > >> arundhati > >> > > roy overlooks, in her stupidity, is that the > position of goi (and > >> of > >> > > nehru as pm) treating the accession of j&k > to india as > confirmedly > >> > final > >> > > (in what goi considers as fulfilling > it's part of the un > resolution > >> on > >> > > kashmir) is on the basis of the > ratification of j&k's accession > to > >> > india > >> > > by the constituent > assembly of j&k on 15/02/1954 > > the nehru > >> > > statements > >> > > nos 1 to 12, that she quotes, pre-date that > ratification date of > >> > > 15/02/1954 and are from a period when the > status of j&k with > >> respect > >> > to > >> > > india was subjected to a lot of > questioning (including the un > >> > > resolution) > >> > > and nehru acknowledged > that as is reflected in his statements > > > >> > after > >> > > the 15/02/1954 ratification by the j&k constituent assembly, > goi > >> > treated > >> > > the accession of j&K to india as being unquestionable > and nehru > did > >> > not > >> > > make any statement that carried the vein of the > statements 1 to > 12 > >> > > quoted > >> > > by arundhati > > arundhati roy is being stupid in comparing her own > >> > > statements on > kashmir with those of nehru prior to 15/02/1954 and > >> on > >> > > that > >> > > basis > self-righteously suggesting that if she is to be prosecuted > >> then > >> > > > > >> > > nehru (posthumously) should also be prosected > > ........... aalok > >> aima > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/28/stories/2010112862661200.htm > > > >> They > >> > > can > >> > > file a charge posthumously against Jawaharlal Nehru too: > > Arundhati > >> Roy > >> > > > >> > > > Arundhati Roy > > My reaction to today's court order directing the > >> > Delhi > >> > > Police to > file an FIR against me for waging war against the > state: > >> > > Perhaps > they should posthumously file a charge against Jawaharlal > >> > Nehru > >> > > > too. Here is what he said about Kashmir: > > 1. In his telegram to > >> the > >> > > Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Indian > Prime Minister Pandit > >> > Jawaharlal > >> > > Nehru said, ³I should like to make > it clear that the question of > >> > aiding > >> > > Kashmir in this emergency is > not designed in any way to influence > >> the > >> > > state to accede to India. > Our view which we have repeatedly made > >> > public > >> > > is that the question > of accession in any disputed territory or > >> state > >> > > must > >> > > be decided in > accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to > >> this > >> > > > >> > > view.² (Telegram 402 Primin-2227 dated 27th October, 1947 to PM of > > > >> > > Pakistan repeating telegram addressed to PM of UK). > > 2. In other > >> > > telegram > >> > > to the PM of Pakistan, Pandit Nehru said, > ³Kashmir's accession to > >> > India > >> > > was accepted by us at the request of > the Maharaja's government > and > >> the > >> > > most numerously representative > popular organization in the state > >> which > >> > > is > >> > > predominantly Muslim. > Even then it was accepted on condition that > >> as > >> > > soon > >> > > as law and > order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would > >> decide > >> > > the > question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either > >> > > >> > > Dominion then.² (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947). > > > >> Accession > >> > > issue > > 3. In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on > >> 2nd > >> > > > >> > > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, ³We are anxious not to finalise > > > >> > > anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity > > > >> to > >> > be > >> > > given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for > them > >> > > ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it > has > >> been > >> > > our > >> > > policy that where there is a dispute about the > accession of a > state > >> to > >> > > either Dominion, the accession must be made > by the people of that > >> > state. > >> > > It is in accordance with this policy > that we have added a proviso > >> to > >> > the > >> > > Instrument of Accession of > Kashmir.² > > 4. In another broadcast > to > >> > the > >> > > nation on 3rd November, 1947, Pandit > Nehru said, ³We have > declared > >> > that > >> > > the fate of Kashmir is > ultimately to be decided by the people. > That > >> > > pledge we have given > not only to the people of Kashmir and to the > >> > world. > >> > > We will not and > cannot back out of it.² > > 5. In his letter No. > >> 368 > >> > > Primin dated 21 November, 1947 addressed > to the PM of Pakistan, > >> Pandit > >> > > Nehru said, ³I have repeatedly stated > that as soon as peace and > >> order > >> > > have been established, Kashmir > should decide of accession by > >> > Plebiscite > >> > > or referendum under > international auspices such as those of > United > >> > > Nations.² > > U.N. supervision > > 6.In his statement in the Indian > >> > > Constituent Assembly on 25th > November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, > ³In > >> > > order > >> > > to establish our bona > fide, we have suggested that when the > people > >> are > >> > > given the chance > to decide their future, this should be done > under > >> the > >> > > supervision > of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations > >> > > Organisation. > The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked > >> force > >> > > should > decide the future or the will of the people.² > > 7.In his > >> > > statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 5th March, > 1948, > >> > Pandit > >> > > Nehru said, ³Even at the moment of accession, we went > out of our > >> way > >> > to > >> > > make a unilateral declaration that we would abide > by the will of > >> the > >> > > people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or > referendum. We > >> > insisted > >> > > further that the Government of Kashmir must > immediately become a > >> > popular > >> > > government. We have adhered to that > position throughout and we > are > >> > > prepared to have a Plebiscite with > every protection of fair > voting > >> and > >> > > to > >> > > abide by the decision of the > people of Kashmir.² > > Referendum > or > >> > > plebiscite > > 8.In his press-conference in London on 16th January, > >> 1951, > >> > > as > >> > > > reported by the daily ŒStatesman' on 18th January, 1951, Pandit > > >> > Nehru > >> > > stated, ³India has repeatedly offered to work with the United > > >> Nations > >> > > reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to > express > >> their > >> > > will and is always ready to do so. We have always > right from the > >> > > beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people > deciding their > >> fate > >> > by > >> > > referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was > our proposal long > >> before > >> > the > >> > > United Nations came into the picture. > Ultimately the final > decision > >> of > >> > > the settlement, which must come, > has first of all to be made > >> basically > >> > > by > >> > > the people of Kashmir and > secondly, as between Pakistan and India > >> > > directly. Of course it must > be remembered that we (India and > >> Pakistan) > >> > > have reached a great > deal of agreement already. What I mean is > that > >> > many > >> > > basic features > have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is > the > >> > > people of > Kashmir who must decide for themselves about > their > >> future > >> > > externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that > even without > >> our > >> > > agreement no country is going to hold on to > Kashmir against the > >> will > >> > of > >> > > the Kashmiris.² > > 9.In his report to All Indian Congress Committee > >> on > >> > 6th > >> > > July, 1951 > as published in the Statesman, New Delhi on 9th July, > >> 1951, > >> > > Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a > prize > >> > for > >> > > > India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a > > >> > > commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual > > >> existence > >> > and > >> > > its people must be the final arbiters of their > future. It is here > >> > today > >> > > that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in > the battlefield but in > the > >> > > minds > >> > > of men.² > > 10.In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. > > > >> > > representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, ³The Government of India not > > >> only > >> > > reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of > > the > >> > > continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India > > >> shall > >> > be > >> > > decided through the democratic method of a free and > impartial > >> > plebiscite > >> > > under the auspices of the United Nations but > is anxious that the > >> > > conditions necessary for such a plebiscite > should be created as > >> > quickly > >> > > as possible.² > > Word of honour > > 11.As reported by Amrita Bazar > >> > > Patrika, > >> > > Calcutta, on 2nd January, > 1952, while replying to Dr. Mookerji's > >> > > question > >> > > in the Indian > Legislature as to what the Congress Government > going > >> to > >> > do > >> > > about > one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Pandit Nehru > >> > said, > >> > > > ³is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to > the > >> > > >> > > Kashmiri people. When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to > > > >> > the > >> > > leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide > by > >> the > >> > > verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I > would > >> have > >> > > no > >> > > hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to > United Nations > >> and > >> > > given our word of honour for a peaceful > solution. As a great > nation > >> we > >> > > cannot go back on it. We have left > the question for final > solution > >> to > >> > > the > >> > > people of Kashmir and we are > determined to abide by their > >> decision.² > > >> > > > >> > > 12.In his statement in the Indian Parliament on 7th August, 1952, > > >> > Pandit > >> > > Nehru said, ³Let me say clearly that we accept the basic > > >> proposition > >> > > that > >> > > the future of Kashmir is going to be decided > finally by the > >> goodwill > >> > and > >> > > pleasure of her people. The goodwill > and pleasure of this > >> Parliament > >> > is > >> > > of no importance in this matter, > not because this Parliament does > >> not > >> > > have the strength to decide > the question of Kashmir but because > any > >> > kind > >> > > of imposition would be > against the principles that this > Parliament > >> > > holds. > >> > > Kashmir is very > close to our minds and hearts and if by some > decree > >> or > >> > > adverse > fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a > wrench > >> and > >> > a > >> > > > pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not > >> > > >> > > wish > >> > > to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep > > them > >> > > against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to > > >> stress > >> > > that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the > future > of > >> > > Kashmir. It is not that we have > merely said that to the United > >> Nations > >> > > and to the people of > Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that > is > >> > borne > >> > > out by the > policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but > >> > > everywhere. > Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble > and > >> > > expense and > in spite of all we have done, we would willingly > leave > >> if > >> > it > >> > > was > made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go. > > > >> > > However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay > > >> against > >> > > the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose > ourselves on > >> them > >> > > on > >> > > the point of the bayonet.² > > Kashmir's soul > > 13.In his > statement > >> in > >> > > the > >> > > Lok Sabha on 31st March, 1955 as > published in Hindustan Times New > >> > Delhi > >> > > on Ist April, 1955, Pandit > Nehru said, ³Kashmir is perhaps the > most > >> > > difficult of all these > problems between India and Pakistan. We > >> should > >> > > also remember that > Kashmir is not a thing to be bandied between > >> India > >> > > and > >> > > Pakistan but > it has a soul of its own and an individuality of its > >> own. > >> > > Nothing > can be done without the goodwill and consent of the > people > >> of > >> > > > >> > > Kashmir.² > > 14.In his statement in the Security Council while > taking > >> > part > >> > > in > debate on Kashmir in the 765th meeting of the Security Council > >> on > >> > > > >> > > 24th January, 1957, the Indian representative Mr. Krishna Menon > > >> said, > >> > > ³So > >> > > far as we are concerned, there is not one word in the > statements > >> that > >> > I > >> > > have made in this council which can be > interpreted to mean that > we > >> > will > >> > > not honour international > obligations. I want to say for the > purpose > >> of > >> > > the record that there > is nothing that has been said on behalf of > >> the > >> > > Government of India > which in the slightest degree indicates that > >> the > >> > > Government of > India or the Union of India will dishonour any > >> > > international > obligations it has undertaken.² > > > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open > >> > discussion > >> > > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To > >> subscribe: > >> > > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > >> the > >> > > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata > >> Sengupta > >> > > The > >> > > Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net > >> > > www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open > >> discussion > >> > > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: > >> send > >> > > an > >> > > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject > >> > > header. > >> > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-listList > >> > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > >> India Editor > >> The Indian, Australia > >> > >> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > > http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > > http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > > http://www.crusading.se > > Gondolgatan 2 l tr > > 12832 Skarpnäck > > Sweden > > tel +468-943288 > > mobil 4670-3213370 > > > > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with > > your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will > always > > long to return. > > — Leonardo da Vinci > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > India Editor > The Indian, Australia > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 101 > ******************************************** > -- +64 021 035 1673 http://feddabonn.com From santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 08:37:09 2010 From: santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com (santhosh hk) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:07:09 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] Mass Petition Demanding total ban of the production and use of Endosulfan Message-ID: Mass Petition Demanding total ban of the production and use of Endosulfan- the toxic Pesticide To The Minister of Environment Government of India Dear Sir We, the concerned citizens and affected people, would like to invite your urgent attention to the disastrous results that Endosulfan- - the toxic pesticide %u2013 has wreaked on the lives people and environment of India. On the basis of clear evidence that unmistakably and amply demonstrated the adverse impact of Endosulfan, we urge you to immediately ban the production, distribution and the use of this toxic pesticide in India Endosulfan is being considered for a global ban by the Stockholm Convention Persistent Organic Pollutants. It is indeed a matter of grave concern that India is one of the countries opposing this ban, especially given the population density of the nation and the popular ignorance of the extent to which pesticides can be harmful. India is one of the countries worst affected by the production and use of the toxic pesticide. The people of India have a right to life, guaranteed by Article 21 of our Constitution. As Endosulfan, being a confirmed toxic pesticide, has been proved to have adverse impact on the right to health and life of the people, we demand urgent ban of the production, distribution and use of Endosulfan at the very earliest. I. Evidence Against the Use of Endosulfan in India We would like to invite your attention to following clear evidences against the production and use of Endosulfan. 1) Endosulfan is an organochlorine compound that is used as an insecticide and acaricide. It is one of the most toxic pesticides in the market today, responsible for many fatal pesticide poisoning incidents around the world.] Endosulfan is also a xenoestrogen%u2014a synthetic substance that imitates or enhances the effect of estrogens%u2014and it can act as an endocrine disruptor, causing reproductive and developmental damage in both animals and humans. There are also studies that indicate that endosulfan may a potential cause for cancer 2) India the world's largest user of endosulfan, and a major producer with three companies%u2014Excel Crop Care, H.I.L., and Coromandal Fertilizers%u2014producing 4,500 tonnes annually for domestic use and another 4,000 tonnes for export. Banned in more than 63 countries, including the European Union, Australia and New Zealand, and other Asian and West African nations, and soon in the United States[3][4]this toxic pesticide is extensively in many parts of India. It is produced by Bayer Crop Science, Makhteshim Agan, and Government-of-India%u2013owned Hindustan Insecticides Limited among others. Because of its threats to the environment, there is an increasing demand for the global ban on the use and manufacture of endosulfan under the Stockholm Convention. 3) Endosulfan was used in Kasrgod district of Kerala since 1979. The disastrous impact of Endosulfan was first seen among animals and then among the adverse health conditions of people living in the areas. By the 1990s, the human population of Kasaragod came face to face with the scale of the tragedy. With congenital anomalies, mental retardation, physical deformities, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, hydrocephalus etc, the innocent children of the area were found to be the worst affected. Men and women were also affected with various chronic ailments, many irreversible and difficult to treat. There is a high incidence of disorders of the central nerves system, Cancer and reproductive disorders. The National Institute Occupational Health (Indian Council of Medical Research) says that after studying various etiological factors responsible for health problem was aerial spraying of Endosulfan. 4) Due to local protests of people, the issue has acquired more visibility and attention of the policy makers. In 2001, in Kerala, endosulfan spraying became suspect when linked to a series of abnormalities noted in local children. . Initially endosulfan was banned, yet under pressure from the pesticide industry this ban was largely revoked. Due to the recent protest against Endosulfan, the use of the pesticide is again banned in Kerala. The situation there has been called "next in magnitude only to the Bhopal gas tragedy."In 2006, in Kerala, compensation of Rs 50,000 was paid to the next kin of each of 135 people who were identified as having died as a result of endosulfan use. Chief Minister V. S. Achuthanandan also gave an assurance to people affected by poisoning, "that the government would chalk out a plan to take care of treatment, food and other needs of the affected persons and that its promise of rehabilitation of victims would be honoured." All the above points clearly show the urgent need for banning the production and use of endosulfan in India. II. Scientific Evidence against the production and use of Endosulfan We would further invite your attend to the scientific evidence against the use of Endosulfan. a) Toxicity Endosulfan is acutely neurotoxic to both insects and mammals, including humans. The US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) classifies it as Category I: "Highly Acutely Toxic" based on a LD value of 30 mg/kg for female rats while the World Health Organization classifies it as Class II "Moderately Hazardous" based on a rat LD50 of 80 mg/kg. It is a GABA-gated chloride channel antagonist, and a Ca2 , Mg2 ATPase inhibitor. Both of these enzymes are involved in the transfer of nerve impulses. Symptoms of acute poisoning include hyperactivity, tremors, convulsions, lack of coordination, staggering, difficulty breathing, nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, and in severe cases, unconsciousness. Doses as low as 35 mg/kg have been documented to cause death in humans,] and many cases of sub-lethal poisoning have resulted in permanent brain damage] Farm workers with chronic endosulfan exposure are at risk of rashes and skin irritation. EPA's acute reference dose for dietary exposure to endosulfan is 0.015 mg/kg for adults and 0.0015 mg/kg for children. For chronic dietary exposure, the EPA references doses are 0.006 mg/ (kg%u2022day) and 0.0006 mg/ (kg%u2022day) for adults and children, respectively. b) Adverse Impact on Health Several studies have documented that endosulfan can also affect human development. Researchers studying children from an isolated village in Kerala, India have linked endosulfan exposure to delays in sexual maturity among boys. Endosulfan was the only pesticide applied to cashew plantations in the hills above the village for 20 years and had contaminated the village environment. The researchers compared the villagers to a control group of boys from a demographically similar village that lacked a history of endosulfan pollution. Relative to the control group, the exposed boys had high levels of endosulfan in their bodies, lower levels of testosterone, and delays in reaching sexual maturity. Birth defects of the male reproductive system including cryptorchidism were also more prevalent in the study group. The researchers concluded that "our study results suggest that endosulfan exposure in male children may delay sexual maturity and interfere with sex hormone synthesis." Increased incidences of cryptorchidism have been observed in other studies of endosulfan exposed populations. A 2007 study by the California Department of Public Health found that women who lived near farm fields sprayed with endosulfan and the related organochloride pesticide dicofol during the first eight weeks of pregnancy are several times more likely to give birth to children with autism. This is the first study to look for an association between endosulfan and autism, and additional study is needed to confirm the connection.] A 2009 assessment concluded that epidemiology and rodent studies that suggest male reproductive and autism effects are open to other interpretations, and that developmental or reproductive toxicity occurs only at endosulfan doses that cause neurotoxicity. c) Environmental Impact Endosulfan is a very persistent chemical which may stay in the environment for lengthy periods of time, particularly in acid media." It is pointed out that %u201Cendosulfan has relatively high potential to bioaccumulate in fish." It is also toxic to amphibians: low levels have been found to kill tadpoles.] Endosulfan is subject to long range atmospheric transport, i.e. it can travel long distances from where it is used. For example, a 2008 report by the National Park Service found that endosulfan commonly contaminates air, water, plants and fish of national parks in the U.S. Most of these parks are far from areas where endosulfan is used]Endosulfan has also been detected in dust from the Sahara Desert collected in the Caribbean after being blown across the Atlantic Ocean.] In 2009, the committee of scientific experts of the Stockholm Convention concluded that "endosulfan is likely, as a result of long range environmental transport, to lead to significant adverse human health and environmental effects such that global action is warranted." d) Global Advocacy Against Endosulfan In 2007, the international community took steps to restrict the use and trade of endosulfan. It is recommended for inclusion in the Rotterdam Convention on Prior Informed Consent, and the European Union proposed to add it to the list of chemicals banned under the Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants. If approved, all use and manufacture of endosulfan would be banned globally. Meanwhile, Canada announces that endosulfan is under consideration for phase-out in that country, [and Bayer Crop Science voluntarily pulls its endosulfan products from the U.S. market] but continues to sell them abroad. In February 2008, environmental, consumer, and farm labor groups including the Natural Resources Defense Council, Organic Consumers Association, and the United Farm Workers called on the U.S. EPA to ban endosulfan. In May, coalitions of scientists, environmental groups, and arctic tribes asked the EPA to cancel endosulfan, [and in July a coalition of environmental and workers groups filed a lawsuit against the EPA challenging its 2002 decision to not ban it. In October, the Review Committee of the Stockholm Convention moved endosulfan along in the procedure for listing under the treaty, while India blocked its addition to the Rotterdam Convention We would further like to invite your attention to the clear case of the adverse impact of Endosulfan in the state of Kerala: In Kerala, the pesticide was banned in 2001, but as per the Insecticide act 1968, State Governments do not have the authority to ban a pesticide, and the ban was subsequently lifted. The sale of the pesticide was stopped by the order of the Kerala High Court in 2002, and later, in 2006, the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperation Issued a Gazette Notification, withholding its further sale in the state. It is widely reported in the press with ample proof that the use of Endosulfan is being continued to be used in Kerala on a large scale. We demand a complete ban of production, distribution and use of Endosulfan in the country to ensure health and safety people and environmental sustainability of India. We demand the victims of the tragedy be identified and be given health care extensively and free of cost as also a compensation befitting the proportions of the tragedy that has befallen them. Malayalanatu facebook community & web weekly please sign here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mass-petition-demanding-total-ban-of-the-production-and-use-of-endosulfan--the-toxic-pesticide/ From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Nov 30 05:45:21 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 05:45:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Repeated Defamatory Postings on this List Message-ID: <32FA96ED-E2C9-419B-9765-2A7D101FCFEE@sarai.net> Dear All, This is the third time since the 17th of November that Aditya Raj Kaul has dished out unverified untruths on this list regarding the alleged matter of Arundhati Roy having grabbed tribal land. While one could ignore it the first time, even the second time, I think when it comes to the third time, it needs to be taken cognizance of seriously. We all need to reflect on this, and think about how we can get beyond this. Aditya Raj Kaul's statements to this effect are carried in his response to Ana Valdes to the Reader List - Re: [Reader-list] the latest stupidity of arundhati roy - comparing her utterances on kashmir with those of nehru Date:9 November 2010 11:51:07 PM GMT+05:30 The posting can be seen online at - http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2010-November/027581.html Additiionally, he has once again abused this list to utter again in this posting the utter falsity (echoing the Pioneer Newspaper) that Arundhati Roy articulated a slogan saying Kashmir wanted freedom (Azaadi) from 'Bhookha Nanga Hindustan' ('Hungry, Naked India) when in fact she had categorically criticized this slogan. This will be borne out by any examination of any recordings of what was said on the 21st of October by Ms. Roy at the LTG Auditorium in Delhi. As will the baselessness of the charge of sedition brought by some vested interests against Arundhati Roy and others, including myself. I have myself posted a clarification to this effect (whether or not Ms. Roy endorsed the 'Bhookha, Nanga Hindustan' slogan on the list, (see - http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2010-October/ 027043.html ) in response to a previous posting made by Aditya Raj Kaul, and I find it shocking that despite this, he should choose to repeat this lie, here, yet again. This has also been pointed out in a posting made shortly recently s, by Baruk Feddabonn at - http:// mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2010-November/027582.html I am also referring here to the canard forwarded by Aditya Raj Kaul, emanating recently from media entities like the Pioneer Newspaper, that Arundhati Roy, or her husband Pradip Krishen, have 'illegally occupied tribal land' in Pachmarhi in the state of Madhya Pradesh. The origins of this story lie in the late nineties, when vested interests in the real estate and hotel business began harassing Pradip Krishen in Pachmarhi in the late 90s for his work as a campaigner on environmental issues . The matter was reported then in India Today, and in the Indian Express (which seem, in general, to have been different entities then, from what they are now). The links are below, and can be easily accessed online by anybody. I am offering these links for consideration so that there is some perspective on this episode, and so that we can begin to see clearly how this untruth is being manufactured, by newspapers and media concerns like The Pioneer, and on this list by the likes of Aditya Raj Kaul. ---------------------- First, the India Today Report from 1999. 1. God of Small Towns N.K. SIngh, India Today, July 12, 1999 http://www.india-today.com/itoday/12071999/mp.html You can read the whole story by following the link, but for those who do not have patience to do so, here is a substantial excerpt : "...The SADA (The Pachmarhi Special Area Development Authority) notice smacks of Kafkaesque dispensation of justice. If land-use at Bariaam was frozen by a legislation dating back to 1973, how could Krishen and two others -- both of them government officials -- who purchased the land get the transfer registered in 1992 at a land- records office of the state government? Besides, Krishen claims that hundreds of houses built in the areas under SADA have gone unnoticed. Roy and Krishen feel that the state offensive against them was caused by their opposition to the TCPO's Draft Development Plan for Pachmarhi published in September last year which, they allege, was a "sell-out" to the hotel lobby. The state Government subsequently appointed Krishen a member of the committee to hear public objections to the Draft Plan. He submitted a number of objections, including one by his wife that condemned the plan's authors for conspiring to "convert Pachmarhi into the Las Vegas of Madhya Pradesh". Says Roy: "This infuriated both the hoteliers' lobby as well as its acolytes in the Planning Department. The notice to Pradip (Krishen) of March 12 is a direct outcome of their animosity and vested interests." The report continues - " ...The alleged violation of the law in Bariaam, even if technical, by the landowners pales into insignificance when compared with illegal developments on the other side of the Bariaam Lake. Many senior government officials have purchased land in areas falling within the Pachmarhi wildlife sanctuary. "It is highly damaging to the environment of the area," says Subharanjan Sen, director of the Satpura National Park. A Jabalpur businessman, Ashish Agrawal, even started construction on the site last month by clearing a patch of jungle "for agricultural activities". Last month Agrawal's half-built construction was demolished by the Hoshangabad district administration after Satyanand Mishra, principal secretary of the Housing and Environment Department, visited the site following the controversy over the notice served on Krishen. Obviously there were red faces in Bhopal after protests by an internationally famous literary figure, and the state Government needed to absolve itself of the charge of selectively punishing wrong- doers. Acting upon Mishra's subsequent report, the state Government is planning to crack down on all encroachers. At Bariaam, notices have been served -- though belatedly -- on the Krishens' neighbours, who include novelist Vikram Seth's sister Aradhana Seth. Roy has said that "whatever our faults, land grabbing and acquisitiveness are not among them". Their house, like Roy's novel, is a finely crafted token of aesthetic values. Perhaps their trouble began when they sought to preserve the environment by opposing the commercialisation of Pachmarhi. But Roy shouldn't lose heart because her battle with the local authorities may witness the genesis of her next novel..." And here is the Indian Express story, four years after 1999 2. MP govt spares rod for minister, spoils Pachmarhi Hartosh Singh Bal, Indian Express, August 20, 2003 http://www.india-today.com/itoday/12071999/mp.html Here, is an extract from the Indian Express story "Conservator of Forest and Park Director B.D. Sankhwar says he does not blame people like Pradip Kishen and Aradhana Seth for the illegal constructions. ‘‘In most cases, I don’t blame the individuals concerned. They obtained the necessary revenue documents, including registries and mutations." ------------------- Recently, after eight years, since this sordid episode last saw the light of day, The Pioneer (see - http://www.dailypioneer.com/297320/ Arundhati-Roy--Pradip-Krishen-grab-tribal-land-in-MP.html) has brought up, once again, the sludge that the above two stories (indian Express and India Today) successfully countered, in 1999 and 2003. No doubt this was done as part of the concerted campaign to harass Ms. Roy and those close to her. In one specific instance, no effort was taken to publish accurate counter-points, even when they were offered, after being solicited, as will be evident further below. Aditya Raj Kaul's posting of this material on this list needs to be seen in this same murky light. A major news channel, in a query sent to Ms. Roy on the 19th of November, 2010 (see below) detailed the charges that they had made in a story prepared for broadcast on their channel, and asked her for a response. Ms Roy, responded to this query on the same day, by forwarding a mail to them containing a reply from Pradip Krishen. As far as I know, no media platform has chosen to make Mr. Krishen's response to this slander public so far. Perhaps because it totally takes the wind out of the sails of the allegations. In the interests of clarification on this matter, and to ensure that this list is not repeatedly abused by these attempts at slander. I am reproducing below, Mr. Krishen's (and Ms. Roy's) response. -------------- 1. Arundhati Roy's Response to the queries about alleged grabbing of Tribal Land Dear ______, Clearly while the rest of the world is riveted to what some of your notable colleagues in the media have been up to with the 2G business, you have something different on your mind! I hope you are having fun with this story about my "adivasi land grab". Thanks for taking the trouble to check the facts, all of which are not only false but also defamatory. I am attaching Pradip's response which he has already sent to you. Better luck next time! All best Arundhati 2. Pradip Krishen's response (forwarded in the body of the above email) This is in response to a message that Arundhati Roy forwarded to me just now: I'm afraid you have got your facts VERY wrong. Here are the main facts pertaining to the points you mention: I bought the land in question, approx 1,300 sq meters of land in 1992. The land in question was not Adivasi land. The previous owners were Shareef Ahmed, Shabra Begum and 11 others, all residents of Pachmarhi. A sale deed was executed in the Sub-registrar's office in Piparia, and the land was demarcated by the Patwari. I built my house the following year. It is true that Vijay Singh accused me and 2 others of encroaching on his land in 2003. The land in question was measured by the Tehsil officers after the complaint was filed, and it was found that no encroachment had in fact taken place, and Vijay Singh signed a statement retracting his complaint. The Case was closed as will be borne out in the Tehsil records The third point about the Forest Deptt is as follows: I was served with a notice in 1999, 6 years after I registered the purchase of my land, to say that no sale or transfer of land was permitted in the area because the entire area was notified as an intended Sanctuary in 1977. I replied that I had bought the land by due legal process and that if no sale was permitted then the Revenue authorities should not have registered the sale. Besides, since 1977, thousands of sales had taken place within the notified area, and why was I being singled out? This case is now in the High Court of MP. Further to all these facts regarding the land in Pachmarhi, I want you to know that Arundhati has absolutely nothing to do with my Pachmarhi land. We were not married when I bought the land in 1992, and she is not registered as the owner. She has not visited the house for over 12 years. I'm afraid that the Press is trying to drag her name in only to try and defame her unecessarily. Pradip Krishen 3. The Media Channel's query to Arundhati Roy On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, The media channel wrote to Ms. Roy : Re: Request for a Byte/Statement Ma'am, We are forwarding you one of the story on which we would like to have a reaction of you in form of a sound byte or perhaps a statement. Details: STD: Writer-activist Arundhati Roy is embroiled in fresh controversy over encroachment in Panchmarhi, a hill resort in Madhya Pradesh… The Shivraj Singh government is contemplating action against Arundhati`s husband for building his house in protected wildlife area…. The Times Now investigation finds out that though the State government has booked the case for violating the forest act, it is also a case of encroaching upon a poor tribals land. V/O1: This is the bungalow owned by Arundhatis husband, filmmaker Pradeep Krishan in Bariaam village of Panchmari, a hill resort in Madhya Pradesh… now at the centre of controversy… The controversy erupted in 2003 after the local Pipariya Sub Divisional Magistrate, SDM had served notice to Roys husband and three others including Aradhana Seth, sister of writer Vikram Seth, for violating wild life act 1972 section 18 (1). The Forest Act of 1972 bans the sale of land in notified forest areas. Section 18 of the law bars buying and selling of notified forest land... This village falls within the Special Area Development Authoritys jurisdiction SADA. The SADA had also served a order of stop building order on Roys husband.. The notice says that under section 16 of of the State Town and country planning act, 1973 the land use of Panchmarhi and its neighbouring areas had been frozen… Arundhatis husband had then moved to the State High court against the SDM notice.. However the MP High Court in March 2010, has asked Arundhatis husband, Pradeep Kishan, to appear before a sub-divisional magistrate… BITE ONE: HOSHANGABAD COMMISSIONER MANOJ SHRIVASTAV (transcript does not detail what is said in this byte) V/O2: But your channel in Barriaam village finds out that Arundhati also invites the charge for encroaching on tribal land… In fact, the whole controversy came in picture in 2003 after a local Gond tribal Vijay Singh filed a complaint with the SDM, against Roys husband and others for encroaching on his land… In his affidavit, Vijay had accused them of constructing this cemented road to their bungalows without bothering to obtain permission or pay adequate compensation… Vijay passed away last year…Now his wife says that there is no justice in this case and Arundhati has not paid any compensation for encroaching on her land. BITE TWO: SUKHWATI WIFE OF VIJAY SINGH ranscript does not detail what is said in this byte) V/O3: The land record officer - Patwari confirms that in 2003 after the tribal Vijays complaint he had measured the land and found that Arundhatis husband had encroached upon the tribals land. BITE THREE: LAND RECORD OFFICER JITENDRA SINGH (transcript does not detail what is said in this byte) PTC: The big question is how Arundhati Roy managed to get land in this protected wild life sanctuary while throwing a all the rules to the air. Even a bigger question would be how will Arundhati, who is better know for her fight for downtrodden class, justify encroaching upon the land of poorest of the poor tribals… (Query ends here) A Brief Glossary: STD stands for Studio, V/O for Voice Over, PTC for 'Piece to Camera', a 'Byte' is a term used to describe the airing of an excerpted statement made by an interviewee - all these are standard terms used while scripting and planning a television news story, or in transcripts of television news stories. ----------------------------- I hope that all this sheds some light on the matter. I apologize for the length and elaboration of this mail, but I think these facts needs to be placed on record, so as to ensure that this list does not become the dumping ground of the garbage of lies and rumours. Finally, I think we need to think seriously about what means this list might need to take to safeguard its integrity from this kind of repeated defamatory mischief and malicious slander. best Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Nov 30 13:10:20 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:10:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list Message-ID: dear All, http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has pushed the courts to get an FIR lodged. There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each other. Lets think hard. warmly jeebesh From oishiksircar at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 13:23:43 2010 From: oishiksircar at gmail.com (OISHIK SIRCAR) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:23:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Violent Modernities Project Workshop 1: What's Wrong with 'Honour' Crimes?, Dec 4, 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello: The Centre for Penology, Criminal Justice and Police Studies and the Collaborative Research Programme on Law, Postcoloniality and Culture at the Jindal Global Law School, Sonipat, with the Hali Panipati Trust is organizing the first in the series of workshops of the Violent Modernities Project on Saturday, Dec. 4, 2010. This workshop is titled ‘What’s Wrong with Honour Crimes?’ The VM project will organize six more workshops themed around issues of violence over the next academic semester and calendar year. Please find the schedule attached along with a note on the VM Project. If people from Delhi are interested to attend, but require transportation -- please call me on 0-8930110702. Please do circulate widely. Warmly, Oishik -- OISHIK SIRCAR Assistant Professor Assistant Director, Centre for Penology, Criminal Justice and Police Studies Coordinator, Collaborative Research Programme in Law, Postcoloniality and Culture Jindal Global Law School O.P. Jindal Global University Sonipat, Haryana NCR of Delhi, India E: osircar at jgu.edu.in, oishiksircar at gmail.com M: +91 8930110702 W: www.jgls.edu.in -- OISHIK SIRCAR oishiksircar at gmail.com oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca From agora158 at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 16:24:55 2010 From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:54:55 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of this list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the rights of a writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has no right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I choose ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable interlocutors. Ana On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > dear All, > > > http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm > > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has pushed the > courts to get an FIR lodged. > > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. > > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each other. > Lets think hard. > > warmly > jeebesh > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 16:31:00 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It shameful that Aditya Raj Kaul, who is hell bent on producing false reports on any issue he feels like has also named one of the list members in the complaint, out of his desperation and his understanding of the Kashmir issue. On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: > Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of this > list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the rights of > a > writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. > A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has no > right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I choose > ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable interlocutors. > Ana > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > > > dear All, > > > > > > > http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm > > > > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has pushed the > > courts to get an FIR lodged. > > > > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. > > > > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each other. > > Lets think hard. > > > > warmly > > jeebesh > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > http://www.crusading.se > Gondolgatan 2 l tr > 12832 Skarpnäck > Sweden > tel +468-943288 > mobil 4670-3213370 > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with > your > eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long > to return. > — Leonardo da Vinci > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From samvitr at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 16:38:41 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:38:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know neither Aditya or nor anyone else on this forum but I am surprised that if Aditya has registered a complaint why should people get so defensive. We have a democratic setup and he has every right to go to the court. Similarly, Arundhati and others have every right to defend themselves. The Indian judicial system is a multi-tier process just for the sake that justice should be done. Why is such a fuss being made about it. This is a simple process. We must respect the law of the land and if we don't we should be ready to face the consqueunces. We all make our choices and have to live by them. -SR On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > It shameful that Aditya Raj Kaul, who is hell bent on producing false > reports on any issue he feels like has also named one of the list members in > the complaint, out of his desperation and his understanding of the Kashmir > issue. > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: > >> Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of this >> list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the rights of >> a >> writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. >> A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has no >> right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I choose >> ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable interlocutors. >> Ana >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: >> >> > dear All, >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm >> > >> > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has pushed the >> > courts to get an FIR lodged. >> > >> > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. >> > >> > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each other. >> > Lets think hard. >> > >> > warmly >> > jeebesh >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com >> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com >> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com >> http://www.crusading.se >> Gondolgatan 2 l tr >> 12832 Skarpnäck >> Sweden >> tel +468-943288 >> mobil 4670-3213370 >> >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with >> your >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long >> to return. >> — Leonardo da Vinci >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 16:54:42 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:54:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Defensive? I used the word "shame". Unlike yours, My hands are tied in my efforts to understand the complexity of issues in this country. Sadly, when a writer addresses this issues, and expresses her views, she is vilified to the extant that she becomes the subject of your perverted imagination, Samvit. Her house, where she dwells becomes the object of your scrutiny. BUT NOT KASHMIR. BUT NOT AFSPA. So why should states from North East, the state of Kashmir demand secession from the Indian state? I dont have to look at historical examples. Your attitudes, Aditya Raj Kaul's attitude speaks volumes. This is your two paisa bit that you do to counter someone's statements. it is SHAME, Samvit. Please do not give me the example of the democratic set up of this country. On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Samvit wrote: > I know neither Aditya or nor anyone else on this forum but I am > surprised that if Aditya has registered a complaint why should people > get so defensive. We have a democratic setup and he has every right to > go to the court. Similarly, Arundhati and others have every right to > defend themselves. The Indian judicial system is a multi-tier process > just for the sake that justice should be done. Why is such a fuss > being made about it. This is a simple process. We must respect the law > of the land and if we don't we should be ready to face the > consqueunces. We all make our choices and have to live by them. > -SR > > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > It shameful that Aditya Raj Kaul, who is hell bent on producing false > > reports on any issue he feels like has also named one of the list members > in > > the complaint, out of his desperation and his understanding of the > Kashmir > > issue. > > > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: > > > >> Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of this > >> list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the rights > of > >> a > >> writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. > >> A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has no > >> right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I choose > >> ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable interlocutors. > >> Ana > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > >> > >> > dear All, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm > >> > > >> > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has pushed > the > >> > courts to get an FIR lodged. > >> > > >> > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. > >> > > >> > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each > other. > >> > Lets think hard. > >> > > >> > warmly > >> > jeebesh > >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > >> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > >> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > >> http://www.crusading.se > >> Gondolgatan 2 l tr > >> 12832 Skarpnäck > >> Sweden > >> tel +468-943288 > >> mobil 4670-3213370 > >> > >> > >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with > >> your > >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always > long > >> to return. > >> — Leonardo da Vinci > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 17:08:15 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:08:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear all i think it right time, not only on this List, but else where, to launch a campaign in defense of Roy and others. The intellectuals of this country should stand up and take a side. It is time to say the truth. i once jokingly told Mr. Aditya R Kaul, i guess three years back that he is Parveen Tagodia of Kashmiri Pandits, and so no surprises there are many instances in history one is trail of Jean Genet when Jean Cocteau organized support for his release. and the Govt was forced to withdraw charges against him... About Genet "with Foucault and Sartre to protest police brutality against Algerians in Paris, a problem persisting since the Algerian War of Independence, when beaten bodies were to be found floating in the Seine" His last work ' The prisoner of Love' is about Palestinian struggle for freedom, and in that sense, we are not far from that Trial of Genet, although for reasons not directly connected to politics, but yes about something very deep: what is State and what is Law? Here, it is about Kashmir, so yes, Jeebesh is right "Lets think hard." love is On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Samvit wrote: > I know neither Aditya or nor anyone else on this forum but I am > surprised that if Aditya has registered a complaint why should people > get so defensive. We have a democratic setup and he has every right to > go to the court. Similarly, Arundhati and others have every right to > defend themselves. The Indian judicial system is a multi-tier process > just for the sake that justice should be done. Why is such a fuss > being made about it. This is a simple process. We must respect the law > of the land and if we don't we should be ready to face the > consqueunces. We all make our choices and have to live by them. > -SR > > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> It shameful that Aditya Raj Kaul, who is hell bent on producing false >> reports on any issue he feels like has also named one of the list members in >> the complaint, out of his desperation and his understanding of the Kashmir >> issue. >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: >> >>> Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of this >>> list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the rights of >>> a >>> writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. >>> A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has no >>> right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I choose >>> ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable interlocutors. >>> Ana >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: >>> >>> > dear All, >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm >>> > >>> > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has pushed the >>> > courts to get an FIR lodged. >>> > >>> > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. >>> > >>> > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each other. >>> > Lets think hard. >>> > >>> > warmly >>> > jeebesh >>> > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com >>> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com >>> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com >>> http://www.crusading.se >>> Gondolgatan 2 l tr >>> 12832 Skarpnäck >>> Sweden >>> tel +468-943288 >>> mobil 4670-3213370 >>> >>> >>> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with >>> your >>> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long >>> to return. >>> — Leonardo da Vinci >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From samvitr at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 17:41:48 2010 From: samvitr at gmail.com (Samvit) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:41:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh yes Anupam, you forgot about the Goshtabas that she was feasting on after she spoke at the Aazadi seminar. In KAshmir it is called Goshtaba diplomacy. Arundhati knows nothing about Kashmir or Kashmiries. She is a fly by night operator and has no business in the Valley. She and people like you try to use your verbal jugglery to promote an anti India agenda. The fact is that Article 370 does not allow people like you to have any business with us Kashmiries. It is our land and that is what it stays. We will make Panun Kashmir out of it even thought it may take hundreds of years. If there is anyone on this forum who needs to zip up it is Arundhati's cronies who are on the payroll of many organizations. Also, I removed the garb of Arundhati being a pro-poor because she wears western bourgeoisie outfits and goes to expensive gyms. And when she has to address the media she will wear a khadi/cotton sari. You twisted these words to say that I indulged in a "perverted imagination". You are a classic case of Sawan ke andhe ko sab hara hi hara nazar aata hai. (Hindi). One who goes blind in spring, sees only greenery all around!!! -SR On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Defensive? I used the word "shame". Unlike yours, My hands are tied in my > efforts to understand the complexity of issues in this country. Sadly, when > a writer addresses this issues, and expresses her views, she is vilified to > the extant that she becomes the subject of your perverted imagination, > Samvit. Her house, where she dwells becomes the object of your scrutiny. BUT > NOT KASHMIR. BUT NOT AFSPA. So why should states from North East, the state > of Kashmir demand secession from the Indian state? I dont have to look at > historical examples. Your attitudes, Aditya Raj Kaul's attitude speaks > volumes. This is your two paisa bit that you do to counter someone's > statements. it is SHAME, Samvit. Please do not give me the example of the > democratic set up of this country. > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Samvit wrote: >> >> I know neither Aditya or nor anyone else on this forum but I am >> surprised that if Aditya has registered a complaint why should people >> get so defensive. We have a democratic setup and he has every right to >> go to the court. Similarly, Arundhati and others have every right to >> defend themselves. The Indian judicial system is a multi-tier process >> just for the sake that justice should be done. Why is such a fuss >> being made about it. This is a simple process. We must respect the law >> of the land and if we don't we should be ready to face the >> consqueunces. We all make our choices and have to live by them. >> -SR >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM, anupam chakravartty >> wrote: >> > It shameful that Aditya Raj Kaul, who is hell bent on producing false >> > reports on any issue he feels like has also named one of the list >> > members in >> > the complaint, out of his desperation and his understanding of the >> > Kashmir >> > issue. >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Ana Valdés wrote: >> > >> >> Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of >> >> this >> >> list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the rights >> >> of >> >> a >> >> writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. >> >> A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has no >> >> right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I choose >> >> ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable interlocutors. >> >> Ana >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: >> >> >> >> > dear All, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm >> >> > >> >> > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has pushed >> >> > the >> >> > courts to get an FIR lodged. >> >> > >> >> > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. >> >> > >> >> > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each >> >> > other. >> >> > Lets think hard. >> >> > >> >> > warmly >> >> > jeebesh >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com >> >> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com >> >> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com >> >> http://www.crusading.se >> >> Gondolgatan 2 l tr >> >> 12832 Skarpnäck >> >> Sweden >> >> tel +468-943288 >> >> mobil 4670-3213370 >> >> >> >> >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with >> >> your >> >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always >> >> long >> >> to return. >> >> — Leonardo da Vinci >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From sen.jhuma at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 17:52:56 2010 From: sen.jhuma at gmail.com (Jhuma Sen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:22:56 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excuse my twisted imagination, but what has the choice of outfits got to do with professing a particular opinion/ talking about it? If we go by this logic, then in the ideal world, all politicians who talk about 'eradication of poverty' close to the elections, should campaign naked and starved. Since you define 'anti-India' so ably, it might be a good idea to define 'India' first. What is India in your imagination Samvit? On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:11 AM, Samvit wrote: > Oh yes Anupam, you forgot about the Goshtabas that she was feasting on > after she spoke at the Aazadi seminar. In KAshmir it is called > Goshtaba diplomacy. Arundhati knows nothing about Kashmir or > Kashmiries. She is a fly by night operator and has no business in the > Valley. She and people like you try to use your verbal jugglery to > promote an anti India agenda. The fact is that Article 370 does not > allow people like you to have any business with us Kashmiries. It is > our land and that is what it stays. We will make Panun Kashmir out of > it even thought it may take hundreds of years. If there is anyone on > this forum who needs to zip up it is Arundhati's cronies who are on > the payroll of many organizations. Also, I removed the garb of > Arundhati being a pro-poor because she wears western bourgeoisie > outfits and goes to expensive gyms. And when she has to address the > media she will wear a khadi/cotton sari. You twisted these words to > say that I indulged in a "perverted imagination". You are a classic > case of Sawan ke andhe ko sab hara hi hara nazar aata hai. (Hindi). > One who goes blind in spring, sees only greenery all around!!! > -SR > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > Defensive? I used the word "shame". Unlike yours, My hands are tied in my > > efforts to understand the complexity of issues in this country. Sadly, > when > > a writer addresses this issues, and expresses her views, she is vilified > to > > the extant that she becomes the subject of your perverted imagination, > > Samvit. Her house, where she dwells becomes the object of your scrutiny. > BUT > > NOT KASHMIR. BUT NOT AFSPA. So why should states from North East, the > state > > of Kashmir demand secession from the Indian state? I dont have to look at > > historical examples. Your attitudes, Aditya Raj Kaul's attitude speaks > > volumes. This is your two paisa bit that you do to counter someone's > > statements. it is SHAME, Samvit. Please do not give me the example of the > > democratic set up of this country. > > > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Samvit wrote: > >> > >> I know neither Aditya or nor anyone else on this forum but I am > >> surprised that if Aditya has registered a complaint why should people > >> get so defensive. We have a democratic setup and he has every right to > >> go to the court. Similarly, Arundhati and others have every right to > >> defend themselves. The Indian judicial system is a multi-tier process > >> just for the sake that justice should be done. Why is such a fuss > >> being made about it. This is a simple process. We must respect the law > >> of the land and if we don't we should be ready to face the > >> consqueunces. We all make our choices and have to live by them. > >> -SR > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > It shameful that Aditya Raj Kaul, who is hell bent on producing false > >> > reports on any issue he feels like has also named one of the list > >> > members in > >> > the complaint, out of his desperation and his understanding of the > >> > Kashmir > >> > issue. > >> > > >> > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Ana Valdés > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of > >> >> this > >> >> list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the > rights > >> >> of > >> >> a > >> >> writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. > >> >> A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has > no > >> >> right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I > choose > >> >> ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable > interlocutors. > >> >> Ana > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > dear All, > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm > >> >> > > >> >> > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has > pushed > >> >> > the > >> >> > courts to get an FIR lodged. > >> >> > > >> >> > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. > >> >> > > >> >> > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each > >> >> > other. > >> >> > Lets think hard. > >> >> > > >> >> > warmly > >> >> > jeebesh > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > >> >> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > >> >> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > >> >> http://www.crusading.se > >> >> Gondolgatan 2 l tr > >> >> 12832 Skarpnäck > >> >> Sweden > >> >> tel +468-943288 > >> >> mobil 4670-3213370 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth > with > >> >> your > >> >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will > always > >> >> long > >> >> to return. > >> >> — Leonardo da Vinci > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 17:53:14 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:53:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FIR and this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Having business relationship with Kashmiris, personally Samvit, is not what I look forward to. There is no need for me to think of it as a real estate property unlike you all advocating Panun Kashmir in the same vein. If you consider yourself as a Kashmiri, then I guess you should have been able to speak against the fortress erected by armed forces, the mis-governance by subsequent Indian governments, the gross human rights violations. Sub-nationalism, anti nationalism feeds on these things.You explore this problem as an anti-India issue, when you have the option of speaking up against violations by the successive governments while at the same time, supporting the steps taken to resolve this crisis. Look what you offered just now as a counter: Panun Kashmir. anupam On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Samvit wrote: > Oh yes Anupam, you forgot about the Goshtabas that she was feasting on > after she spoke at the Aazadi seminar. In KAshmir it is called > Goshtaba diplomacy. Arundhati knows nothing about Kashmir or > Kashmiries. She is a fly by night operator and has no business in the > Valley. She and people like you try to use your verbal jugglery to > promote an anti India agenda. The fact is that Article 370 does not > allow people like you to have any business with us Kashmiries. It is > our land and that is what it stays. We will make Panun Kashmir out of > it even thought it may take hundreds of years. If there is anyone on > this forum who needs to zip up it is Arundhati's cronies who are on > the payroll of many organizations. Also, I removed the garb of > Arundhati being a pro-poor because she wears western bourgeoisie > outfits and goes to expensive gyms. And when she has to address the > media she will wear a khadi/cotton sari. You twisted these words to > say that I indulged in a "perverted imagination". You are a classic > case of Sawan ke andhe ko sab hara hi hara nazar aata hai. (Hindi). > One who goes blind in spring, sees only greenery all around!!! > -SR > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > Defensive? I used the word "shame". Unlike yours, My hands are tied in my > > efforts to understand the complexity of issues in this country. Sadly, > when > > a writer addresses this issues, and expresses her views, she is vilified > to > > the extant that she becomes the subject of your perverted imagination, > > Samvit. Her house, where she dwells becomes the object of your scrutiny. > BUT > > NOT KASHMIR. BUT NOT AFSPA. So why should states from North East, the > state > > of Kashmir demand secession from the Indian state? I dont have to look at > > historical examples. Your attitudes, Aditya Raj Kaul's attitude speaks > > volumes. This is your two paisa bit that you do to counter someone's > > statements. it is SHAME, Samvit. Please do not give me the example of the > > democratic set up of this country. > > > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Samvit wrote: > >> > >> I know neither Aditya or nor anyone else on this forum but I am > >> surprised that if Aditya has registered a complaint why should people > >> get so defensive. We have a democratic setup and he has every right to > >> go to the court. Similarly, Arundhati and others have every right to > >> defend themselves. The Indian judicial system is a multi-tier process > >> just for the sake that justice should be done. Why is such a fuss > >> being made about it. This is a simple process. We must respect the law > >> of the land and if we don't we should be ready to face the > >> consqueunces. We all make our choices and have to live by them. > >> -SR > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > It shameful that Aditya Raj Kaul, who is hell bent on producing false > >> > reports on any issue he feels like has also named one of the list > >> > members in > >> > the complaint, out of his desperation and his understanding of the > >> > Kashmir > >> > issue. > >> > > >> > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Ana Valdés > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Sorry but I want now to unsubscribe from these list. If memberrs of > >> >> this > >> >> list has done that they have shown a flagrant disrespect tor the > rights > >> >> of > >> >> a > >> >> writer to speak freely and to to express its opinions. > >> >> A person using the Sate recourses, police and judges to do that, has > no > >> >> right to belong to this list, but since I am not the moderator I > choose > >> >> ,myself to go and to leave you all with such despicable > interlocutors. > >> >> Ana > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > dear All, > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/nov/301110-News-Delhi-FIR-Kashmiri-separatist-leader-Syed-Ali-Geelani-Arundhati-Roy-sedition.htm > >> >> > > >> >> > Members of this list are behind the private complaint that has > pushed > >> >> > the > >> >> > courts to get an FIR lodged. > >> >> > > >> >> > There are member of this list who are named in the FIR. > >> >> > > >> >> > So, dear list members, the online and offline flows entangles each > >> >> > other. > >> >> > Lets think hard. > >> >> > > >> >> > warmly > >> >> > jeebesh > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> http://anavaldes.wordpress.com > >> >> http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com > >> >> http://caravia.stumbleupon.com > >> >> http://www.crusading.se > >> >> Gondolgatan 2 l tr > >> >> 12832 Skarpnäck > >> >> Sweden > >> >> tel +468-943288 > >> >> mobil 4670-3213370 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth > with > >> >> your > >> >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will > always > >> >> long > >> >> to return. > >> >> — Leonardo da Vinci > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > From aalok.aima at yahoo.com Tue Nov 30 18:25:29 2010 From: aalok.aima at yahoo.com (Aalok Aima) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:55:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] barkha dutt's statement (niira radia tapes) Message-ID: <188698.47334.qm@web29501.mail.ird.yahoo.com> tonight, 30/11/10, barkha dutt is scheduled to host a programme on the niira radia tapes   this was preceded by her statement on 27/11   "Are there learnings in this for me? Yes, of course there are. Looking back with the benefit of hindsight and with what we know now, I realise that when we talk to people who represent or belong to the power establishment, there can be a danger in sailing too close to the wind, even for those of us who are experienced and are driven purely by a deep passion for news. "   "There is also another learning. I have always operated by a code of ethics that holds me as accountable to the public as the politicians I grill on my show. The selective and malicious nature of some of the commentary against me has reinforced my awareness of how responsible we ought to be before we level an allegation against another."   much as i dislike some aspects of barkha's journalism, i have not heard/read anything in the tapes that brings barkha's journalistic integrity into question ...... the same cannot be said of vir sanghvi who seems to come out as the mouthpiece of a corporate house   ......... aalok aima     http://www.ndtv.com/page/?type=barkha-statement   Barkha Dutt on the Allegations Against Her   As a journalist, whose work has been consistently hard-hitting and scathingly critical of the ongoing 2G scam and the former Telecom Minister, I am astonished, angered and hurt to see the baseless allegations against me in sections of the media this week. While there is no doubt that journalists must be held to the same exacting standards of accountability that we seek from others, the allegations in this instance, as they relate to me, are entirely slanderous and not backed by a shred of evidence. The edited conversations between PR Representative Nira Radia and me have been headlined to suggest that I misused my role as a journalist to "lobby" for A. Raja, a man I have never met. While this is completely untrue, I can understand the anger and anguish that such a misrepresentation can create, among viewers who rely on me to report honestly and impartially. And I would like to address some of the questions raised by these edited transcripts. The tapes seem to add up to hundreds of hours of conversations between Nira Radia and people from different backgrounds, including scores of well-known journalists and editors from all the major media organisations (TV and Print) in India. Despite this, much of the commentary has been strangely selective in its focus. And quite often, vindictively personal. Consider, for example, that online it is being dubbed "BarkhaGate." I cannot speak on behalf of any other journalist on the tapes. Framed in the backdrop of a larger media debate, every journalist's conversation on these tapes must, of course, be evaluated on its own merit. So, speaking only for myself, the insinuation made by the magazines are preposterous. By definition, the insinuation of "lobbying" implies either a quid-pro-quo of some kind or a compromise in how I have reported the story. As anyone who has watched my coverage of the ongoing 2G scam over the past year would know - to suggest either is entirely absurd. (ATTACHED BELOW ARE LINKS TO SEVERAL SHOWS HOSTED BY ME ON THE 2G SCAM OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS). In several different statements, I have already challenged two newsmagazines who first carried the allegations to establish any proof of a quid-pro quo or a bias in reportage. I know that neither charge stands the test of any scrutiny. For those perplexed by the ongoing debate, it could be useful to understand the context in which these conversations took place. The few, short conversations took place in the backdrop of cabinet formation in 2009, when the DMK had stormed out of the UPA coalition over portfolio allocation. In this instance, Nira Radia, was clearly plugged into the inner workings of the DMK, a fact we only discovered when she rang up to tell me that the news flashes running on different news channels were incorrect; the stalemate between the DMK and the Congress had not yet been resolved. She corroborated her claim by saying she was in direct contact with the DMK chief and was in fact with his daughter, Kanimozhi. We talked about news developments within the DMK and the Congress and nothing I said was different from what I was reporting on TV minute-by-minute. Ironically, the one sentence being used to damn me, "Oh God, What should I tell them", is in fact two separate sentences, neither of which are related to A Raja or the telecom portfolio at all. When transcripts are edited and capture neither tone nor context, the message is severely distorted. The phrase "Oh God," was nothing more than a response to a long account by Nira Radia on a DMK leader, TR Baalu, speaking to the media without sanction from the party. The excerpt, "What should I tell them," was in response to her repeatedly saying to me over several different phone calls, that if I happened to talk to anyone in the Congress, I should ask them to talk the DMK chief directly. As a matter of record, I never passed on any message to any Congress leader. But because she was a useful news source, and the message seemed innocuous, I told her I would. Ultimately, I did no more than humour a source who was providing me information during a rapidly changing news story. AT NO STAGE WAS I EVER ASKED TO PASS ON ANY MESSAGE TO INTERCEDE ON BEHALF OF A PARTICULAR MINISTER OR PORTFOLIO. NOT ONCE, WAS I ASKED TO "LOBBY" FOR A. RAJA. NOT ONCE WAS I ASKED TO CARRY ANY MESSAGE REGARDING HIM OR ANY OTHER APPOINTMENT. Anyone who has bothered to read the entire transcript of these conversations instead of just the headline, would notice that the conversation is essentially a journalist soliciting information from one of the many people plugged in - something all journalists do as part of newsgathering. And as journalists, we also often humour our sources without acting on their requests. The only "benefit" I ever got from talking to Nira Radia was information; information I used to feed the news. It is important to remember that at this point, in May 2009, none of us were aware of the present investigation against Nira Radia. Like most other journalists in India, I knew Nira Radia professionally as the main PR person for the Tata Group. In this instance, she clearly represented one side of the story. She was just one of many people I spoke to as is typical in such news stories. As journalists we deal with different kinds of people, who sometime solicit information and at other times, provide news leads. Unless we believe in only press-conference driven journalism, the need to tap into what's happening behind-the-scenes in the corridors of power involves dealing with a multitude of voices, and yes, we cannot always vouchsafe for the integrity of all those we use as news sources. We concern ourselves primarily with the accuracy of the information. But, I must come back to my original objection to what the two magazines have implied. Strangely, when I complained to the editor of Open magazine about the smear campaign against me, he sent me a text saying , there was "not much remarkable" in my conversations and went on to even say that, "there is one bit in the strap where the word go-between is used that I don't like myself." I have to wonder then, with anger, why he did not pause before using such a defamatory description. Are there learnings in this for me? Yes, of course there are. Looking back with the benefit of hindsight and with what we know now, I realise that when we talk to people who represent or belong to the power establishment, there can be a danger in sailing too close to the wind, even for those of us who are experienced and are driven purely by a deep passion for news. The takeaway from this debate for me pertains to the everyday practice of journalism. I think of how different kinds of people, who could be potential sources of news, call me, and indeed all editors in this country every day, with different requests ranging from complaints about stories to requests for coverage and yes, sometimes we are also asked to pass on innocuous bits of information. Never have these requests - nor will they - dictate the agenda of my news decisions. But, the calls that we treat with polite friendliness, to keep our channels of news open, clearly need to be handled with more distance. This controversy has made me look at the need to re-draw the lines much more carefully. There is also another learning. I have always operated by a code of ethics that holds me as accountable to the public as the politicians I grill on my show. The selective and malicious nature of some of the commentary against me has reinforced my awareness of how responsible we ought to be before we level an allegation against another. While a genuine debate on media ethics is always welcome in the quest for self improvement, I hope this debate will also look at what amounts to character assassination.