From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 11:43:00 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:43:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Malwa Kabir yatra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Shabnam Virmani 9-day Malwa Kabir Yatra & MahaUtsav Madhya Pradesh, Mar 6-Mar 14, 2010 FEATURING Live Music Concerts by HEMANT CHAUHAN (Gujarati Folk Singer) MUKHTIYAR ALI (Rajasthani Folk Singer) MOORA LALA MARWADA (Kutchi Folk Singer) PRAHLAD TIPANYA, KALURAM BAMANIYA & other local Mandlis & Screenings & Discussions of the Hindi dubbed versions of the four Kabir films Date Location Program Sat Mar 6 LUNIYAKHEDI Village (Prahlad Tipanya's village) Near Maksi town, Tarana Tehsil, Ujjain District 6-9 pm: Film Screenings 9 pm-3 am: Music Concerts Sun Mar 7 LUNIYAKHEDI Village, Tarana, Ujjain District 6:00-10 pm: Film Screenings 10 pm-3 am: Music Concerts Mon Mar 8 Vikram University, Ujjain Day Time - Film Screening, Discussion & Concert Tuesday Mar 9 RUPAKHEDA Village, Sardarpur District 6:30-10 pm: Film Screening 10 pm-3 am: Music Concerts Wed Mar 10 BAL BHAVAN, Indore OR Kampel Village program Film Screening, Discussion & Concert Thursday Mar 11 BAGLI TOWN (Gandhi Chowk), Bagli Tehsil, Dewas District 6:30-10 pm: Film Screenings 10 pm-3 am: Music Concerts Friday Mar 12 ABHAYPURA Village, Shajapur District 6:30-10 pm: Film Screenings 10 pm-3 am: Music Concerts Sat Mar 13 PIPALIYA MANDI, Mansur Tehsil, Dewas District 6:30-10 pm: Film Screenings 10 pm-3 am: Music Concerts Sun Mar 14 KUKDESHWAR Village, Nimaj District 6:30-10 pm: Film Screenings 10 pm-3 am: Music Concerts All are welcome! For directions and details, contact Prahlad Tipanya: 94250-84096 OR Ajay Tipanya: 94250-50814 OR Devnarayan Saroliya: 94259-79564 From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 17:42:21 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:42:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Open Space Writing Competition: Deadline: Feb 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Openspace Date: 1 February 2010 Subject: Open Space Writing Competition 301, 2nd floor, Kanchanjunga Bldg,Kanchan Lane, Near Krishna Dining Hall (Off Law College Road) Pune - 411 004 Dear Member,* ** * *OPEN SPACE Writing Competition* *Open Space announces a fiction/non-fiction writing competition on the theme of:* *‘Open spaces’* *Writers are encouraged to interpret this theme as creatively as possible, exploring the ideas of open spaces of mind, body and spirit…Think of open spaces from an architectural or environmental point of view…common property resources as open spaces…shared wisdom…the World Wide Web as an open space…dialogue between people, cultures, religions, ideologies, communities…processes and events that create/created spaces…open spaces in music, art, theatre…spaces now closed that were once open…spaces now open that were once closed… * *Prizes:* *1st prize – Rs 15,000 (rupees fifteen thousand only)* *2nd prize – Rs 10,000 (ten thousand only)* *3rd prize – Rs 5,000 (five thousand only)* *Judges:* Jerry Pinto, editor, author and poet; Naresh Fernandes, author and editor of Paprika and Time Out Mumbai; and Priya Sarukkai Chabria, editor, poet and author. *How to enter: * 1. Write a story/article up to 1500 words on the theme of *‘Open Spaces’*. 2. The competition is open to anyone *above the age of 18*, residing in India and writing in English. 3. The story/article must be original and unpublished in any print or online forum. 4. A contribution of Rs.100 (rupees one hundred only) is to be paid to participate in the contest. This contribution is payable by bank demand draft *(payable to: Centre for Communication and Development Studies *and mailed to the address given below*) *or by online payment through our secure online payment gateway using your credit or debit card. Our partner is CCAvenue, who have the requisite security provisions to ensure that your card details and transactions meet the highest standards of safety. Please follow this link: *http://infochangeindia.org/Support-Us.html*. 5. Only one entry per individual will be accepted. 6. Submissions may be either as hard copy or soft copy. All submissions must be typed, double spaced. Each page must be numbered and must include the title of the story/article. Please send two copies of hard copy submissions to the address given below. 7. The competition will be judged ‘blind’.So please make sure your name appears *only *on the entry form printed below. Copyright for the short-listed and winning submissions will be shared by the authors and Open Space. Open Space will retain the right to upload or otherwise publish all content submitted to the contest. All winners will be notified by email. *Send the hard copy of your story/article, entry form and contribution to:* Open Space Writing Contest Centre for Communication and Development Studies 301, Kanchanjunga bldg. Kanchan Lane, Near Krishna Dining Hall, Off Law College Road Pune - 411004 OR *send your e-submission and entry form *to:ujwalasam at gmail.com *PLEASE NOTE:* - No copies of submissions will be returned and no correspondence with judges can be entered into. - Entries without the entry form and contribution will not be eligible for the contest. - Email any queries about the contest to: ujwalasam at gmail.com - Prizes are non-transferable. - Submissions must not have been published previously in books or magazines and must be original to the person submitting them. - The closing date to enter the contest is *February 10, 2010*. - Winners will be announced on *March 20, 2010*. _______________________________________________________________________________________ *ENTRY FORM FOR THE OPEN SPACE WRITING CONTEST 2010 (On the theme of ‘Open Spaces’)* * * *1. Name:* *2. Postal Address + PIN:* * * *3. Email:* * * *4. Payment details:* * DD number:* * Drawn on (bank/city):* * Date:* *OR* * Online payment order number:* * * *6. Title of your submission:** * *Labels:* call for submission ,* writing competition 2010* *For further information on any of these programs call Openspace at 25457371* Open Space encourages debate and action on rights, justice and sustainable development. Open Space is an initiative of the Centre for Communication & Development Studies (CCDS) aimed at strengthening civil society and mobilising citizen’s action. From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Feb 1 17:54:14 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (nmf2010) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:24:14 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?NewMediaFest=272010_-_week_06_-_prev?= =?iso-8859-1?q?iew?= Message-ID: <20100201132416.5E877C22.ADBF78AF@192.168.0.2> NewMediaFest'2010 ------------------------------------- Week 06 - 1-7 February 2010 ------------------------------------- 1. Feature of the month February 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=436 On occasion 27 January 2010 - 65th Return of the Liberation of Auschwitz A Virtual Memorial Foundation launched on (27 January 1945-2010) - SFC - Shoah Film Collection- http://dts.engad.org/sfc-index.html http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=669 2. new ! SFC - Shoah Film Collection - daily solo features on http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1641-->> this week: Monday: Alicia Felberbaum (UK) Tuesday: Isobel Blank (Italy) Wednesday: Holger Kiess (Germany) Thursday: Antti Savela (SWE) Friday: Miri Nishri (Israel) Saturday: Grace Graupe Pillard (USA) Sunday: Lukas Matejka (Slovakia) 3. Celebrate! - netart features 2010 10 Years - JavaMuseum - Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art the netart features are released in form of the daily journal - "Celebrate!" - http://2010.javamuseum.org This week--> Monday: Grégoire Zabé (France) Tuesday: Marc Lee (Switzerland) Wednesday: Timo Kahlen (Gerrmany) Thursday: Curt Cloninger (USA) Friday: Susanne Berkenheger (Germany) Saturday: jurgen trautwein aka jtwine (USA) Sunday: Carlo Sansolo (Brazil) 4. SIP - SoundLAB Interview project--> a series of interviews - http://sip.newmediafest.org/?p=414-->this week: : Monday: Jim Barrett (USA) Tuesday:Matt Dotson USA) Wednesday: Josh Goldman (USA) Thursday: Neil Kaczor (UK) Friday: John Maters (NL) Saturday: Koich Shimizu (Japan) Sunday: Johann Walter (Denmark) 5. VideoChannel Cologne - Greek Video Art - curated by Gioula Papadopoulou (GR) - features until Friday http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1546--> this week: Monday Nikos Giavropoulos Tuesday Leonidas Konstantinidis Wednesday Gioula Papadopoulou Thursday Andreas Sitorego Friday George Vaviloussakis new! VideoChannel - Video aArt from Malaysia curated by Roopesh Sitharan (Malaysia) - this week --> Saturday Tan Chui Mui Sunday Liew Seng Tat 6.. VideoChannel - Found Footage Film Collection http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1275--> this week: Monday Dennis Summers (USA) Tuesday Alexander Mouton (USA) Wednesday Irad Lee (Israel) Thursday Jeremiah Jones (USA) Friday Andrea Huyoff (Germany) Saturday Enrique Freaza (Spain) Sunday Sebastian Clej (Romania) 7. new! CologneOFF IV - features for one day - start 1 February 2010 http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1632 ->this week: Monday: Christian Bermudez (Costa Rica) Tuesday. Carlo Sansolo (Brazil) Wednesday: Piotr Nowak / Samuel Van Ransbeeck Thursday: Filip Peruzovic, (Croatia) Friday: Yoko FUKUSHIMA ( Japan) Saturday: Alberto Magrin, Alberto (Italy) Sunday: Paolo Bonfiglio (Italy) ___________________________________ February 2010 - feature of the month http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=436 A Virtual Memorial/VideoChannel Cologne --> SFC -Shoah Film Collection (2010) during February daily solo features on --> http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1641 ___________________________________ NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne calls for entries --> for NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?page_id=78 downloads http://2010.newmediafest.org/?page_id=87 newmediafest2010 [at] koeln.de ---------------------------------------------------- Join NewMediaFest'2010 on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=404197070650 ---------------------------------------------------- From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 17:58:14 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:58:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vacancy: Research Study Co-ordinator at Educational Initiatives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Swara Pandya Subject: Short term postion at Educational Initiatives- Urgent From: Gauri Sharma Date: 1 February 2010 Subject: FW: Wanted some help Dear Swara, We are recruiting a person in each metro, Kolkata, Bangalore, Chennai, Delhi, and Mumbai for city coordinator's postion. I wanted to get some references, etc. The work will be for 3-6 months starting immediately. If you know someone who would be interested, Kindly forward the below given details. Thanks and regards, Gauri ………………………….. *About Educational Initiatives (**www.ei-india.com* *) :* Educational Initiatives (EI) is an educational research company with a mission to work towards qualitative improvement in India’s educational system. EI is focused exclusively on assessment and learning outcomes measurement in school education. EI conducts the *ASSET* test in English medium schools across the country which is taken by over 300,000 students every year. EI also conducts large scale benchmarking assessments working closely with the Government schooling system, NGOs, donor agencies such as UNICEF, World Bank and Dell Foundation. *About the study:* * * EI with the support of Wipro Ltd. is conducting a study of holistic student development in 5 metros namely Mumbai, Kolkata, Delhi, Chennai and Bangalore. The study will cover English medium schools, specifically those which are perceived as ‘good’ schools. The study will try to identify factors or parameters that contribute to the holistic development of students and the extent to which good practices in these contribute to imparting better quality of education. * * This study expands a project executed jointly by Wipro and EI in 2005-06 which looked at the quality of student achievement in leading schools in 5 metro cities of India and was published as a cover story in the India Today magazine. For the full report please refer to this link on our website: http://www.ei-india.com/whats-wrong-with-our-teaching. While 2005-06 study provide insights into what students are learning well and what they are not, this study would go beyond that scope to include not only the co-scholastic and attitudes/values aspects of education, but also attempt to correlate them with qualitative parameters and learning environments in school. *Profile of City Coordinator:* * * *Job Description: * · To carry out all the tasks required for testing in a standardised manner in all the selected schools in the city. · To help in recruiting invigilators for the project and handle the invigilators’ team for effectively implementation of the project. · To liaison with School Management, Principals and Teachers for smooth implementation of the project. · To assist the research team in activities like data collection, conducting teachers and student interviews etc. · To handle the logistics issues during the programme implementation in the city. · To manage distribution and collection of test papers. · To ensure systematic reporting of daily project activities in the city to the Project manager. · To help in documentation of the process in the city. · Show excellent initiative, self motivation and effective planning for successful administration of the project. *Candidate Profile:* · Post Graduate in Management or Social Sciences · Graduate with 1-2 years' experience in field operations. · Computer proficiency and access to email on daily basis is must. · Languages Known- English. *Other Criteria: * · Open to travel anywhere within the city. · Must have a mobile · Own vehicle is preferable *Location: *Bangalore,* *Chennai, Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata. *Duration of the position:* 3-6 months *Salary:* Commensurate with experience. Contact Details: Gauri Sharma, 09928020438, 079-40269628, gauri.sharma at ei-india.com Gauri Sharma, 0-9928020438 | gauri.sharma at ei-india.com Educational Initiatives | www.ei-india.com | A world where children everywhere are learning with understanding. From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 09:36:08 2010 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:36:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Excerpts from Howard Zinn (Interview-2009 March, In Socialist Worker) In-Reply-To: <1f9180971002012003x677185d9gc45a0153c1de3292@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180971002012003x677185d9gc45a0153c1de3292@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180971002012006j11325964v81a12dc3524ac567@mail.gmail.com> You can't leave it to the market. If you're facing an economic crisis like we're facing now, you can't do what was done in the past. You can't pour money into the upper levels of the country and into the corporations, and hope that it somehow trickles down. That's a trickle-down theory. Do you know about the trickle-down theory? If the money does trickle down, it will be a trickle, and that's all. WHAT WAS one of the first things that happened when the Bush administration saw that the economy was in trouble? A $700 billion bailout, and who did we give the $700 billion to? To the financial institutions that ruined us--that caused this crisis. This was when the presidential campaign was still going on, and it pained me to see McCain and Obama standing there, both of them endorsing this huge bailout to the corporations. What Obama should have been saying was: Hey, wait a while. The banks aren't poverty stricken. The CEOs aren't poverty stricken. But there are people who are out of work. There are people who can't pay their mortgages. Let's take $700 billion and give it directly to the people who need it. Let's take $1 trillion, let's take $2 trillion. They spend that on bombers. We don't need to spend the hundreds of billions of dollars on the military budget. Take all the money allocated to military bases and the military budget, and--this is part of the emancipation--you can use that money to give everybody free health care, to guarantee jobs to everybody who doesn't have a job, guaranteed payment of rent to everybody who can't pay their rent, build child care centers. I took a cab from--do you call it Reagan National Airport?--and I like to get into conversations with cab drivers. And if I think the cab driver has a foreign accent, I will say, "Where are you from?" I asked this cab driver, and he said, "Afghanistan." I told him the truth--that I'd never had a cab driver from Afghanistan before. I saw that I didn't have a lot more time left, so I had to get to the heart of the matter. I said, "What do you think of President Obama's idea of sending 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan?" He shook his head. He said, "What they need is food. They need health care. They need houses. That's what they need." This is the mindset that sends 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, and that says, as Obama has, that we've got to have a bigger military. My heart sank when Obama said that. Why do we need a bigger military? We have an enormous military budget. Has Obama talked about cutting the military budget in half or some fraction? No. We have military bases in a hundred countries. We have 14 military bases on Okinawa alone. Who wants us there? The governments. They get benefits. But the people don't really want us there. Right now, there are huge demonstrations in Italy against the establishment of a U.S. military base. There have been big demonstrations in South Korea and on Okinawa. They want to have platforms in space, where they can aim their weapons hit wherever they want. It's pretty scary, unless you believe them when they say, "Oh, we're very precise. We have the latest equipment. We can target anywhere and hit just what we want." This is what they've been saying all along, right? But then you notice that with all the sophisticated equipment and so on, they can actually decide that they're going to bomb this one house. But there's one problem: They don't know who's in the house. They can hit one car with a rocket from a great distance. Do they know who's in the car? No. And later--after the bodies have been taken out of the car, after the bodies have been taken out of the house--they tell you, "Well, there were three suspected terrorists in that house, and yes, there's seven other people killed, including two children, but we got the suspected terrorists." But notice that the word is "suspected." The truth is they don't know who the terrorists are. We have to get out of that mindset. And Obama has to be pulled by the people who elected him, by the people who are enthusiastic about him. We're the ones who have to tell him, "No, you're on the wrong course with this militaristic idea of using force to accomplish things in the world. We won't accomplish anything that way, and we'll remain a hated country in the world." The word defense is one of the most misused words in the English language. "We bombed this country in self-defense." "The Israelis pulverize and destroy Gaza in self-defense." This isn't defense. This is aggression. And we want a country that doesn't commit aggression anymore. Let's use the money to help other people around the world, not to send bombers over there. When disasters take place, they need helicopters to transport people out of the floods and out of devastated areas. They need helicopters to save people's lives, and the helicopters are over in the Middle East, bombing and strafing people. What's required is a total turnaround. We want a country that uses its resources, its wealth and its power to help people, not to hurt them. That's what we need. We are citizens. We must not put ourselves in the position of looking at the world from their eyes and say, "Well, we have to compromise, we have to do this for political reasons." We have to speak our minds. This is the position that the abolitionists were in before the Civil War, and people said, "Well, you have to look at it from Lincoln's point of view." Lincoln didn't believe that his first priority was abolishing slavery. But the anti-slavery movement did, and the abolitionists said, "We're not going to put ourselves in Lincoln's position. We are going to express our own position, and we are going to express it so powerfully that Lincoln will have to listen to us." And the anti-slavery movement grew large enough and powerful enough that Lincoln had to listen. That's how we got the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments. That's been the story of this country. Where progress has been made, wherever any kind of injustice has been overturned, it's been because people acted as citizens, and not as politicians. They didn't just moan. They worked, they acted, they organized, they rioted if necessary. And the anti-slavery movement grew large enough and powerful enough that Lincoln had to listen. That's how we got the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments. They did all sorts of things to bring their situation to the attention of people in power. And that's what we have to do today. http://socialistworker.org/2009/03/13/standing-for-justice You cannot build anything on the foundations of caste. You cannot build up a nation, you cannot build up a morality. Anything that you will build on the foundations of caste will crack and will never be a whole. -AMBEDKAR http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From kaksanjay at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 10:59:08 2010 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:59:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "India For Selective Assassination Of It's Own Citizens?" Message-ID: <5c5369881002012129k37524584gd66db570e0a3fd4e@mail.gmail.com> India For Selective Assassination Of It's Own Citizens? By Trevor Selvam 31 January, 2010 Countercurrents.org http://www.countercurrents.org/selvam310110.htm Recent statements from Indian leaders and police officers gives away the new strategy on the war on Naxalism. To make the movement "headless" by carrying out selective assassination of its leaders with the help of Israeli operatives Plucky savvyness combined with unnecessary bravado has recently marked the attempts at media interface by some Maoist leaders. There are benefits to reap and a price to pay, as a result. On the one hand, it has been a long time coming for the Maoists to come out of their jungle bases and give press conferences, or invite selected correspondents to visit their bases under armed escort. They correctly understood that their political program (and not their military campaign only) needed to be promoted and publicized. They realized that innovative tactics needed to be implemented to popularize their struggles and their demands and acquire some mainstream presence. It took them a long time to also realize that when you wish to take on the state of India, that you must at least marginally capture the imagination of some of those who read papers, surf the net, hang out in cafes and do occasionally get agitated about issues of justice, honesty and righteousness. Such people cannot be ignored. In fact their chatter can eventually affect the mood of the nation. For too long the media in India has been significantly successful in disorienting, deflecting and mesmerizing the minds of urban folks into imagining a country that is not up to par because it is behind the West in so many ways. This state of stupor persists, but there is now an increasing awareness in some circles at least, that India’s postures about its growth, success and international stature can overnight become a hollow dream, if the word gets around that India has treated its first citizens with violence, deprivation, displacement and eventual genocide. The hollowness behind the growth figures, much of which has limited authenticity when seen in terms of the high current account deficit, high unemployment, incredible rise of prices, is also becoming evident even among the India- shining crowd. Despite all the bravado that Kamal Nath and Montek Ahluwalia indulge in, in Davos (after all they would all be seeking International jobs, very soon) the baseline figures of India’s economic progress are quite undermined with the phenomenal rise in poverty, illiteracy, infant malnutrition, farmer suicides and poor potable water facilities and sanitation related fatalities. It is an interesting development that one of the Government’s own bodies has declared that the assault on India’s tribals “is one of the largest land grabs since Columbus”, --that brigand, pirate and drunken sailor, who landed somewhere, near the Bahamas and declared he had found India. Well, a section of India’s population-I daresay a large section-- also needs to discover India. And, they are doing so. And it is because of that, there are some magazines on the net, and on print, that are taking the time to trek into the Naxalite bases and interview their leaders. Not everything is lost to the vacuous, hold the crotch, ape the West, get BPO-fever generation, MCed by the Shahrukh, Infosys, IPL and Kingfisher cultural nexus. Initially, the Maoists’ planned to let some of their spokesperson come overground. This experiment failed, as the Governments of West Bengal (GWB) and India (GOI) wasted no time in slapping them with Unlawful Activities charges and put them in the slammer. No one talks about them anymore, other than the struggling Civil Liberties organizations. They are forgotten. Fortunately for the Maoists, there are a large number of academics and sympathetic journalists, ( as opposed to the band of poets, actresses and intellectuals who made a half hearted attempt to raise their voices on Lalgarh and then withdrew into their shells in no time at the first threats from the GWB) who have taken it upon themselves not to be intimidated and have spoken out in fairly clear terms both on TV and as well on the web and print media on the hypocrisy and superficiality of the mainstream media’s analysis (or extreme lack of it) in parroting the GOI’s and GWB’s mendacious piety about non-violence, abjuring arms, law and order and “foreign hand.” In India, except for the alternate press and in most cases Tehelka, the media engages in sensationalist lies or they repeat the lies of the government and they get away with it. In India, an Inspector General of Police blatantly concocts lies about the wealth and assets of Chatradhar Mahato and also gets away with it, without anybody seeking litigation against spreading such falsehood. In India, the police go after the wives, husbands, children, brothers and sisters of those who are absconding or have launched cases against the police. In India, police chiefs openly boast about how to make a cold blooded execution look like an encounter and the Home Minister meets with those same experts to discuss democracy. In India, judges make pronouncements on corporate crime, based on whether it is good for India’s image or not! In India, an 80-year old woman’s breasts get chopped off and an 18-month old child’s fingers get lopped off by anti-Naxalite vigilantes and the press orders a martini with a twist and watches the sunset over Juhu. Well, the Maoists have broken some ground in bringing to the surface the mess that lies below the pink obscenity that is the Indian parliament, where over one hundred and fifty criminally accused thugs occupy seats. The Maoists leaders have been audacious and dignified in giving interviews after much planning and deployment of their own security measures. It was necessary, because otherwise the Arnab Goswamis and the Barkha Dutts and their unapologetic clones were having a field day, dishing out report after report about the murderous Maoists, without analyzing what had been going on for several years, both at Abujhmarh and Lalgarh. For too long they were unable to convey their message to middle and upper class readers and net surfers about what they were fighting for. Now there is sudden mainstream discussion, on MOUs, Schedule 5 and 6, Abujmarh, Dantewada, Bastar and sites have sprung up all over the world that follow the Indian state’s war against its own people. It is now time for the Maoists to take stock of the situation. The Indian state was caught off guard, both on the ground and in the airwaves. They sent in their khaki-pant wearing, Enfield rifle toting constables after the Maoists and they came back soon, pissing in their pants. Then they sent in their AK-47 and Insas-rifle toting para-military forces after the Maoists. They also have come back with their tails between their legs. Then they deployed Special Forces with reptilian and canine names like Cobra, Greyhound or some other fearsome moniker like Garudas. Their boats were sunk and their anti-mine vehicles were blown up and their helicopters beat a hasty retreat. Enter the Israelis It has been known for several years that India has acquired over 4,000 Galil 7.62 mm super sniper rifles, and night vision sights, laser range finders and other targeting equipment. This is not an infantry rifle, but the ammunition is the same as an Indian INSAS and an AK-47, purchased from Rumania. This is also all separate, of course from thermal imaging equipment, satellite transmission of such images and use of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, better known as drones. All from Israel in the main. In fact India takes up more than 50% of Israel's arms exports. It has also been known that India manufactures under license the Russian gas-fired, super sniper semi automatic Dragunov SVD59. Now comes the report of a special training session involving at least 30 top ranking officers who have just completed special training under "foreign" instructors. Nothing works in Indian media lingo than "foreign hand." But of course, in this case it does not matter, because the foreign hand is only for a good cause! These trainers are not bearded Jihadists or Asiatic desperadoes in the north east with Chinese made grenades. A report from the PTI states the following. “Special task force to tackle Maoist insurgency” Kolkata: The Maoist-infested states, including Jharkhand and Maharashtra, have set up a special task force in their bid to jointly tackle the Naxal problem, a senior West Bengal police officer said. West Bengal, Bihar, Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, Orissa, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and some other Maoist-hit states have selected 30 officers for the special task force to deal with the Maoist problem, he said. The 30 selected officers had undergone a month-long training programme at Ghatsila in Jharkhand. Some foreign army officials, who have experience in tackling guerrilla warfare, also imparted them training, the police officer said.” Mr. Chidambaram had one of his associates state recently in a press conference that the strategy of his initiative is to render the Naxalites "headless." In other words he stated very clearly, that the target is to eliminate the leaders of the Naxalites. As per the same report, “a highly placed official in the security establishment told IANS earlier this week, "We believe there could be around 50 such leaders scattered all over. We are targeting them to make the entire movement headless and make a serious dent," the official said. ” In a special report cited by the BBC, the following was also stated by a security official, “So we are specifically targeting the Maoist leadership and you will see a lot of special operations based on specific intelligence." The official said that "almost all the states are doing their bit, and that a special operation in West Bengal earlier this week - in which Maoist military wing chief Koteswara Rao narrowly escaped arrest - was a good example of that. ” It is significant that Ms. Mamata Banerjee, the Central Minister and self-appointed Bengal-saver, (and stand-up comedian, live theatre activist who attempted suicide with a black shawl and danced on JP Narayan’s car) and who one walked in lock-step with LK Advani, was ready to beg and plead to the Naxalites to come and negotiate with her. She must be in on Mr. Chidambaram’s deadly game plan. She also knows that by the time of the next polls in West Bengal, if she cannot make a settlement in the continuously expanding Naxalite terrain, she will have a hard time putting up candidates to fight the CPI(M) . She wants to make a deal with the Maoists, while all along claiming that they do not exist! She is a mockery of her own self and a pivotal Quasimodo for PCC. Selective assassination Selective assassination, use of UAVs, missile attacks on selected homes and sniper fire has been a hallmark of the Israeli Mossad and Defence forces, not only in Gaza and the West Bank, but also in different parts of the world including South America, Iran and Europe. For the past several years it is now well-known that India has entered into very close collaboration with the IDF and over 32 non-disclosure arms and security agreements have been signed with them. The Mossad has titillated gun-and ammo freaks and underhanded counter-insurgency nutjobs with their secretive killing techniques. Assassination and murder that goes undocumented, un-prosecuted and never brought to light, when the Mossad is involved. The CIA fumbles, trips and gets blown up. Not the Mossad. That is why India has chosen them to deploy dirty tricks on India’s citizens. Perhaps, Mr. Chidambaram would like to take out the Maoists leaders one by one and he has realized that it will not happen by sending in 100,000 troops and anti-mine trucks or IAF helicopters. So the next tactic is to walk away from the roads and get special forces trained to go into the jungles and “live there like guerillas” and seek the Maoists in their hideouts. Therefore high power sniper rifles, night vision sights have become necessary. The "headless" statement should be studied carefully. I am wondering if it is actually code word for carrying out assassinations. The report went on to further state the following: "The force would be named soon and it will be pressed into action as and when the training programme is completed," Director General of Police of West Bengal Bhupinder Singh told PTI. "More officers would be recruited to strengthen the force after the completion of the training of the first batch," the DGP said. They were given training on how to use highly sophisticated weapons and taught the technique to detect explosives, he said. They were also told how to survive in deep forest areas for longer period of time, the officer said. The main objective of the force will be to stay in forest areas near the base camps of the Maoists and to gather detailed information about their activities and their strength, Singh said.” It would be propitious of these Maoist leaders not to fall into the traps being laid out by the security forces. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 13:40:35 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:40:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Activist Circle Bengaluru - Session 1" on Feb 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Keerthi Kiran invited you to "Activist Circle Bengaluru - Session 1" on Saturday, February 6 at 3:00pm. Keerthi Kiran says, "Hi, You are cordially invited to the inaugural session of Activist Circle Bangalore. We would be very happy to meet you on 6th Feb. More details are on the event page. Thanks. Love, Keerthi Kiran Activist Circle Team ". Activist Circle (www.activistcircle.org) is a discussion & networking platform for local communities of youth intrested in the development sector. The first session of Activist Circle Bengaluru is happening this Saturday. The agenda for the session is: 1. Activist Circle Bengaluru Kickoff (10 min) 2. Panel discussion on the topic - Building social platforms for social activists Moderator: Gaurav Mishra (@VoteReportIndia, @gauravonomics) Panel: Parul Gupta (@NGOPost) Jasmine Shah (@iJanaagraha, @jasmine441) 3. Elevator pitch - New ideas for social change (10 min) 4. Coffee & more conversations (30 min) http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=282167849748 From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 15:22:25 2010 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:22:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reversing History by Ahmed Faruqui Message-ID: <13df7c121002020152y4ee16251wf09a7799ef350e14@mail.gmail.com> **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** *****************************************************************Leszek Kolakowski, the Polish-born Oxford philosopher who passed away last year, left behind a striking insight: “We learn history not in order to know how to behave or how to succeed, but to know who we are.” This is a message of tough love for countries such as Pakistan to whom history has not been kind. * Admittedly, Pakistan’s rulers are in good company. Like France’s Bourbons and Britain’s Windsors, they have “forgotten nothing and learned nothing”. But this serious cognitive weakness did not prevent France and Britain from attaining greatness. So there are grounds for hope. But how much hope is warranted before the discussion crosses over into fantasy? There is a Manichean split between those who believe that things will go from bad to worse in Pakistan and those who believe that history is about to reverse itself. Typical of the former viewpoint is a report that was published 10 years ago by the US National Intelligence Council. Dealing with the year 2015, it laid out a grim prognosis. That description for a future that is now just five years ahead was prescient in many respects: “Pakistan will not recover easily from decades of political and economic mismanagement, divisive policies, lawlessness, corruption and ethnic friction. Nascent democratic reforms will produce little change in the face of opposition from an entrenched political elite and radical Islamic parties. Further domestic decline would benefit Islamic political activists, who may significantly increase their role in national politics and alter the makeup and cohesion of the military — once Pakistan’s most capable institution. In a climate of continuing domestic turmoil, the central government’s control probably will be reduced to the Punjabi heartland and the economic hub of Karachi.” An even more dystopian scenario has been put forward recently by Ninand Seth, an Indian. By the year 2020, Seth says that Pakistan would have devolved into an Islamic Commonwealth. This would be a federation of Pakhtunistan (formed by the merger of the Frontier Province with Afghanistan), Balochistan, Sindh and Punjab. Life in the commonwealth would be characterised by the intrusion of religion in every aspect of life, political regimentation and austerity. So what will it take for history to reverse itself? Other nations with bleak histories have shown that reversals are possible. Indonesia is the most recent example. Can Pakistan, acting on the Quaid’s motto of ‘unity, faith and discipline’, put together a sustained recovery that would put the purveyors of doom and gloom to shame? It would seem that change will have to come from within. It cannot be imposed from without. Perhaps it will begin when a new leadership arrives that is able to drastically soften the temper of the political debate. The rancour, ill will and endless squabbling of the past six decades would end. So would the hankering for power between the political and military leaders. In its place would come a team spirit driven to achieve the greatest good of the greatest number. A philosophy of give and take would be embraced by the major political actors. Those bad actors that don’t fall into line would be marginalised and their pernicious message of hatred and intolerance expunged from the polity and replaced with a message of love and respect for diversity. The dispensation of executive authority would flow from the rule of law, not from the barrel of a gun or the power of mobs. The constitution would be inviolable. The so-called law of necessity would be seen finally for what it is — a travesty of justice and a prelude to military rule. It would be put to bed, once and for all. Governments would only be changed through the ballot box. At the same time, there would be accountability for civilian rulers. No one would be above the law. National reconciliation would not be achieved by wiping the slate clean, for that simply provides an incentive for future corruption. Instead, a regimen of accountability would be instituted where those who have stolen public money would pay it back, like the MPs are doing so in the UK. Internationally, Pakistan’s leaders would show boldness and creativity and arrive at a sustainable accommodation with India on Kashmir. This may well build from the formula that Musharraf had devised and which was being explored through serious backdoor diplomacy when the Mumbai terror attacks derailed it. The final solution may be as simple as both countries accepting the Line of Control as the international border and allowing Kashmiris on both sides to move freely across the line. Once a stable accommodation has been reached with India, the jihadi machinery that had been set up to liberate Kashmir would be shut down. The search for physical depth in Afghanistan would end and be replaced by a mission to enrich the nation’s soul. This realignment of foreign and defence policies would allow the armed forces to be rationalised. The slogan ‘military first’ would be left to the likes of North Korea. The search for increasingly more sophisticated weapons of mass destruction would be called off. Ultimately, ways would be found to extricate the armed forces from running businesses and returning the franchises to the private sector. The army would focus solely on its core mission — defending the borders. On the economic front, Pakistan would finally hit its stride and demonstrate growth rates in the seven to eight per cent range, allowing per capita gross domestic product to rise by five to six per cent. Pakistan would become a middle-income country. People will wonder why it took so long to get there. The formulas for economic growth were well known. What was lacking was the will to implement them. Under a new leadership, these would finally be implemented. The government’s Economic Survey pegs the current domestic savings and investment rates at 11.2 per cent and 19.7 per cent of gross domestic savings respectively. Through enlightened policies, these would hit 25 per cent. Additionally, to control budget deficits and put a cap on inflation, the tax base would be expanded to encompass agricultural income. And the mix of exports would be shifted from one dominated by raw materials to one dominated by finished goods and services. Finally, and most importantly, the role of religion in society would be re-examined and redefined. All of this is a tall order but not beyond the reach of enlightened leadership. -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 15:46:51 2010 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:46:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Fwd=3A_*=93Thanks_for_inviting_me_?= =?windows-1252?q?to_speak_at_your_Karl_Marx_Club=2E_But_I_can=92t?= =?windows-1252?q?=2E_I=92m_not_a_Marxist=2E=94*K_Marx_Quoted_by_Ho?= =?windows-1252?q?ward_Zinn_=2Cin_Post_by_Sukla_Sen_elsewhere?= In-Reply-To: <1f9180971002020154w3b54ea38r658dd2a4c03332ba@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180971002020154w3b54ea38r658dd2a4c03332ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180971002020216w458cff8et1d32a3ed637d60c6@mail.gmail.com> --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sukla Sen Quote Perhaps the most precious heritage of Marx’s thought is his internationalism, his hostility to the nation state, his insistence that ordinary people have no nation they must obey and give their lives for in war, that we are all linked to one another across the globe as human beings. This is not only a direct challenge to modern capitalist nationalism, with its ugly evocations of hatred for “the enemy” abroad, and its false creation of a common interest for all within certain artificial borders. It is also a rejection of the narrow nationalism of contemporary “Marxist” states, whether the Soviet Union, or China, or any of the others. Marx had something important to say not only as a critic of capitalism, but as a warning to revolutionaries, who, he wrote in The German Ideology, had better revolutionise themselves if they intend to do that to society. He offered an antidote to the dogmatists, the hard-liners, the Piepers, the Stalins, the commissars, the “Marxists.” He said: *“Nothing human is alien to me.”* That seems a good beginning for changing the world. Unquote http://invereskstreet.blogspot.com/2006/09/howard-zinns-je-ne-suis-pas-marxiste.html < http://invereskstreet.blogspot.com/2006/09/howard-zinns-je-ne-suis-pas-marxiste.html > *The following is reprinted from The Zinn Reader (1997, Seven Stories Press, pp 574-578) and with the permission of the author.* *For a long time I thought that there were important and useful ideas in Marxist philosophy and political economy that should be protected from the self-righteous cries on the right that "Marxism is dead,” as well as from the arrogant assumptions of the commissars of various dictatorships that their monstrous regimes represented “Marxism.” This piece was written for Z Magazine , and reprinted in my bookFailure To Quit * (Common Courage Press, 1993). Not long ago, someone referred to me publicly as a *"Marxist professor.”* In fact, two people did. One was a spokesman for “Accuracy in Academia,” worried that there were *“five thousand Marxist faculty members”* in the United States (which diminished my importance, but also my loneliness). The other was a former student I encountered on a shuttle to New York, a fellow traveller. I felt a bit honoured. A “Marxist” means a tough guy (making up for the pillowy connotation of the “professor”), a person of formidable politics, someone not to be trifled with, someone who knows the difference between absolute and relative surplus value, and what is commodity fetishism, and refuses to buy it. I was also a bit taken aback (a position which yoga practitioners understand well, and which is good for you about once a day). Did “Marxist” suggest that I kept a tiny stature of Lenin in my drawer and rubbed his head to discover what policy to follow to intensify the contradictions o the imperialist camp, or what songs to sing if we were sent away to such a camp? Also, I remembered that famous statement of Marx: *“Je ne suis pas Marxiste.”* I always wondered why Marx, an English-speaking German who had studied Greek for his doctoral dissertation, would make such an important statement in French. But I am confident that he did make it, and I think I know what brought it on. After Marx and his wife Jenny had moved to London, where they lost three of their six children to illness and lived in squalor for many years, they were often visited by a young German refugee named Pieper. This guy was a total “noodnik” (there are “noodniks” all along the political spectrum stationed ten feet apart, but there is a special Left Noodnik, hired by the police, to drive revolutionaries batty). Pieper (I swear, I did not make him up) hovered around Marx gasping with admiration, once offered to translate Das Kapital into English, which he could barely speak, and kept organising Karl Marx Clubs, exasperating Marx more and more by insisting that every word Marx uttered was holy. And one day Marx caused Pieper to have a severe abdominal cramp when he said to him: *“Thanks for inviting me to speak at your Karl Marx Club. But I can’t. I’m not a Marxist.”* That was a high point in Marx’s life, and also a good starting point for considering Marx’s ideas seriously without becoming a Pieper (or a Stalin, or Kim Il Sung, or any born-again Marxist who argues that every word in Volume One, Two and Three, and especially in the Grundrisse, is unquestionably true). Because it seems to me (risking that this may lead to my inclusion in the second edition of Norman Podhoretz’s Register of Marxists, Living or Dead), Marx had some very useful thoughts. For instance, we find in Marx’s short but powerful Theses on Feuerbach the idea that philosophers, who always considered their job was to interpret the world, should now set about changing it, in their writings, and in their lives. Marx set a good example himself. While history has treated him as a secondary scholar, spending all his time in the library of the British Museum, Marx was a tireless activist all his life. He was expelled from Germany, from Belgium, from France, was arrested and put on trial in Cologne. Exiled to London, he kept his ties with revolutionary movements all over the world. The poverty-ridden flats that he and Jenny Marx and their children occupied became busy centres of political activity, gathering places for political refugees from the continent. True, many of his writings were impossibly abstract (especially those on political economy; my poor head at the age of nineteen swam, or rather drowned, with ground rent and differential rent, the falling rate of profit and the organic composition of capital). But he departed from that constantly to confront the events of 1848, the Paris Commune, rebellion in India, the Civil War in the United States. The manuscripts he wrote at the age of twenty-five while an exile in Paris (where he hung out in cafes with Engels, Proudhon, Bakunin, Heine, Stirner), often dismissed by hard-line fundamentalists as “immature”, contain some of the most profound ideas. His critique of capitalism in those Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts did not need any mathematical proofs of “surplus value.” It simply stated (but did not state it simply) that the capitalist system violates whatever it means to be a human. The industrial system Marx saw developing in Europe not only robbed them of the products of their work, it estranged working people from their own creative responsibilities, from one another as human beings, from the beauties of nature, from their own true selves. They lived out their lives not according to their own inner needs, but according to the necessities of survival. This estrangement from self and others, this alienation from all that was human, could not be overcome by an intellectual effort, by something in the mind. What was needed was a fundamental, revolutionary change in society, to create the conditions – a short workday, a rational use of the earth’s natural wealth and people’s natural talents, a just distribution of the fruits of human labour, a new social consciousness – for the flowering of human potential, for a leap into freedom as it had never been experienced in history. Marx understood how difficult it was to achieve this, because, no matter how “revolutionary” we are, the weight of tradition, habit, the accumulated mis-education of generations, *“weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living.”* Marx understood politics. He saw that behind political conflicts were questions of class: who gets what. Behind benign bubbles of togetherness (* We*** the people…*our* country…*national* security), the powerful and the wealthy would legislate on their own behalf. He noted (in The Eighteenth Brumaire< http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1852/18th-brumaire/index.htm>, a biting, brilliant, analysis of the Napoleonic seizure of power after the 1848 Revolution in France) how a modern constitution could proclaim absolute rights, which were then limited by marginal notes (he might have been predicting the tortured constructions of the First Amendment in our own Constitution), reflecting the reality of domination by one class over another regardless of the written word. He saw religion, not just negatively as *“the opium of the people,”* but positively as the *“sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, the soul of soulless conditions.”* This helps us understand the mass appeal of the religious charlatans of the television screen, as well as the work of Liberation Theology in joining the soulfulness of religion to the energy of revolutionary movements in miserably poor countries. Marx was often wrong, often dogmatic, often a “Marxist.” He was sometimes too accepting of imperial domination as “progressive,” a way of bringing capitalism faster to the third world, and therefore hastening, he thought, the road to socialism. (But he staunchly supported the rebellions of the Irish, the Poles, the Indians, the Chinese, against colonial control.) He was too insistent that the industrial working class must be the agent of revolution, and that this must happen first in the advanced capitalist countries. He was unnecessarily dense in his economic analysis (too much education in German universities, maybe) when his clear, simple insight into exploitation was enough: that no matter how valuable were the things workers produced, those who controlled the economy could pay them as little as they liked, and enrich themselves with the difference. Personally, Marx was sometimes charming, generous, self-sacrificing; at other times arrogant, obnoxious, abusive. He loved his wife and children, and they clearly adored him, but he also may have fathered the son of their German housekeeper, Lenchen. The anarchist, Bakunin, his rival in the International Workingmen’s Association, said of Marx: *“I very much admired him for his knowledge and for his passionate and earnest devotion to the cause of the proletariat. But…our temperaments did not harmonize. He called me a sentimental idealist, and he was right. I called him vain, treacherous, and morose, and I was right.”* Marx’s daughter Eleanor, on the other hand, called her father *“…the cheeriest, gayest soul that ever breathed, a man brimming over with humour". * He epitomised his own warning, that people, however advanced in their thinking, were weighted down by the limitations of their time. Still, Marx gave us acute insights, inspiring visions. I can’t imagine Marx being pleased with the “socialism” of the Soviet Union. He would have been a dissident in Moscow, I like to think. His idea of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” was the Paris Commune of 1871, where endless arguments in the streets and halls of the city gave it the vitality of a grass roots democracy, where overbearing officials could be immediately booted out of office by popular vote, where the wages of government leaders could not exceed that of ordinary workers, where the guillotine was destroyed as a symbol of capital punishment. Marx once wrote in the New York Times that he did not see how capital punishment could be justified *“in a society glorifying in its civilisation.”* Perhaps the most precious heritage of Marx’s thought is his internationalism, his hostility to the nation state, his insistence that ordinary people have no nation they must obey and give their lives for in war, that we are all linked to one another across the globe as human beings. This is not only a direct challenge to modern capitalist nationalism, with its ugly evocations of hatred for “the enemy” abroad, and its false creation of a common interest for all within certain artificial borders. It is also a rejection of the narrow nationalism of contemporary “Marxist” states, whether the Soviet Union, or China, or any of the others. Marx had something important to say not only as a critic of capitalism, but as a warning to revolutionaries, who, he wrote in The German Ideology, had better revolutionise themselves if they intend to do that to society. He offered an antidote to the dogmatists, the hard-liners, the Piepers, the Stalins, the commissars, the “Marxists.” He said: *“Nothing human is alien to me.”* That seems a good beginning for changing the world. *Howard Zinn* -- -- You cannot build anything on the foundations of caste. You cannot build up a nation, you cannot build up a morality. Anything that you will build on the foundations of caste will crack and will never be a whole. -AMBEDKAR http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 16:58:36 2010 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:58:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Earth's natural wealth Message-ID: <564b2fca1002020328s20b86765t2fb3af5868a51d3b@mail.gmail.com> A not-ecent piece, but worth having a look at. Naga Earth's natural wealth: an audit - New Scientist, 23 May 2007 by *David Cohen* "I GET excited every time I see a street cleaner," says Hazel Prichard. It's what they collect in their sacks that gets her juices flowing, because the grime and litter they sweep up off the streets is laced with traces of platinum, one of the world's rarest and most expensive metals. The catalytic converters that keep exhaust pollutants from cars, trucks and buses down to an acceptable level all use platinum, and over the years it is slowly but steadily lost through these vehicles' exhaust pipes. Prichard, a geologist at the University of Cardiff in the UK, reckons that tonnes of the stuff is being sprayed out onto the world's streets and highways every year, and she is hunting for places where it is concentrated enough to be worth recovering. One of her prime targets is the waste containers in road-sweeping machines. This could prove lucrative, but Prichard is motivated by something far more significant than the chance of a quick buck. Platinum is a vital component not only of catalytic converters but also of fuel cells - and supplies are running out. It has been estimated that if all the 500 million vehicles in use today were re-equipped with fuel cells, operating losses would mean that all the world's sources of platinum would be exhausted within 15 years. Unlike with oil or diamonds, there is no synthetic alternative: platinum is a chemical element, and once we have used it all there is no way on earth of getting any more. What price then pollution-free cities? It's not just the world's platinum that is being used up at an alarming rate. The same goes for many other rare metals such as indium, which is being consumed in unprecedented quantities for making LCDs for flat-screen TVs, and the tantalum needed to make compact electronic devices like cellphones. How long will global reserves of uranium last in a new nuclear age? Even reserves of such commonplace elements as zinc, copper, nickel and the phosphorus used in fertiliser will run out in the not-too-distant future. So just what proportion of these materials have we used up so far, and how much is there left to go round? Perhaps surprisingly, given how much we rely on these elements, we can't be sure. For a start, the annual global consumption of most precious metals is not known with any certainty. Estimating the extractable reserves of many metals is also difficult. For rare metals such as indium and gallium, these figures are kept a closely guarded secret by mining companies. Governments and academics are only just starting to realise that there could be a problem looming, so studies of the issue are few and far between. Armin Reller, a materials chemist at the University of Augsburg in Germany, and his colleagues are among the few groups who have been investigating the problem. He estimates that we have, at best, 10 years before we run out of indium. Its impending scarcity could already be reflected in its price: in January 2003 the metal sold for around $60 per kilogram; by August 2006 the price had shot up to over $1000 per kilogram. Uncertainties like this pose far-reaching questions. In particular, they call into doubt dreams that the planet might one day provide all its citizens with the sort of lifestyle now enjoyed in the west. A handful of geologists around the world have calculated the costs of new technologies in terms of the materials they use and the implications of their spreading to the developing world. All agree that the planet's booming population and rising standards of living are set to put unprecedented demands on the materials that only Earth itself can provide. Limitations on how much of these materials is available could even mean that some technologies are not worth pursuing long term. Take the metal gallium, which along with indium is used to make indium gallium arsenide. This is the semiconducting material at the heart of a new generation of solar cells that promise to be up to twice as efficient as conventional designs. Reserves of both metals are disputed, but in a recent report Ren� Kleijn, a chemist at Leiden University in the Netherlands, concludes that current reserves "would not allow a substantial contribution of these cells" to the future supply of solar electricity. He estimates gallium and indium will probably contribute to less than 1 per cent of all future solar cells - a limitation imposed purely by a lack of raw material. To get a feel for the scale of the problem, we have turned to data from the US Geological Survey's annual reports and UN statistics on global population. This has allowed us to estimate the effect that increases in living standards will have on the time it will take for key minerals to run out (see Graphs). How many years, for instance, would these minerals last if every human on the planet were to consume them at just half the rate of an average US resident today? The calculations are crude - they don't take into account any increase in demand due to new technologies, and also assume that current production equals consumption. Yet even based on these assumptions, they point to some alarming conclusions. Without more recycling, antimony, which is used to make flame retardant materials, will run out in 15 years, silver in 10 and indium in under five. In a more sophisticated analysis, Reller has included the effects of new technologies, and projects how many years we have left for some key metals. He estimates that zinc could be used up by 2037, both indium and hafnium - which is increasingly important in computer chips - could be gone by 2017, and terbium - used to make the green phosphors in fluorescent light bulbs - could run out before 2012. It all puts our present rate of consumption into frightening perspective (see Diagram). Our hunger for metals and minerals may not grow indefinitely, however. When Tom Graedel and colleagues at Yale University looked at figures for the consumption of iron - one of our planet's most plentiful metals - they found that per capita consumption in the US levelled off around 1980. "This suggests there might be only so many iron bridges, buildings and cars a member of a technologically advanced society needs," Graedel says. He is now studying whether this plateau is a universal phenomenon, in which case it might be possible to predict the future iron requirements of developing nations. Whether consumption of other metals is also set to plateau seems more questionable. Demand for copper, the only other metal Graedel has studied, shows no sign of levelling off, and based on 2006 figures for per capita consumption he calculates that by 2100 global demand for copper will outstrip the amount extractable from the ground. So what can be done? Reller is unequivocal: "We need to minimise waste, find substitutes where possible, and recycle the rest." Prichard, working with Lynne Macaskie at the University of Birmingham in the UK, has found that platinum makes up as much as 1.5 parts per million of roadside dust. They are now seeking out the largest of these urban platinum deposits, and Macaskie is developing a bacterial process that will efficiently extract the platinum from the dust. Other metals could be obtained in equally unorthodox places. Cities are huge stores of metals that could be repurposed, Kleijn points out. Replacing copper water pipes with plastic, say, would free up large quantities of copper for other uses. Tailings from worked-out mines contain small amounts of minerals that may become economic to extract. Some metals could be taken from seawater. "It's all a matter of energy cost," he says. "You could go to the moon to mine precious materials. The question is: could you afford it?" These may sound like drastic solutions, but as Graedel points out in a paper published last year (*Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences*, vol 103, p 1209), "Virgin stocks of several metals appear inadequate to sustain the modern 'developed world' quality of life for all of Earth's people under contemporary technology." And when resources run short, conflict is often not far behind. It is widely acknowledged that one of the key motives for civil war in the Democratic Republic of the Congo between 1998 and 2002 was the riches to be had from the country's mineral resources, including tantalum mines - the biggest in Africa. The war coincided with a surge in the price of the metal caused by the increasing popularity of mobile phones (*New Scientist*, 7 April 2001, p 46). Similar tensions over supplies of other rare metals are not hard to imagine. The Chinese government is supplementing its natural deposits of rare metals by investing in mineral mines in Africa and buying up high-tech scrap to extract metals that are key to its developing industries. The US now imports over 90 per cent of its so-called "rare earth" metals from China, according to the US Geological Survey. If China decided to cut off the supply, that would create a big risk of conflict, says Reller. Reller and Graedel say urgent action is required. Firstly, we need accurate estimates of global reserves and precise figures for consumption. Then we need to set up an accelerated programme to recycle, reuse and, where possible, replace rare elements with more abundant ones. Without all this, any dream of a more equitable future for humanity will come to nothing. Governments seem, at last, to be taking the issue seriously, and next month an OECD working group will be convened to come up with some of the answers. If that goes to plan, we will soon at least have a clearer idea of the problem. Whether any solution to looming global shortages can then be found remains to be seen. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 17:20:12 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:20:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lecture on Equity & Health by Dr Gita Sen on 6th Feb in Bombay Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sana Contractor Date: 2 February 2010 Subject: Fourth K R Memorial Lecture on Contemporary Issues in Health and Social Sciences by Dr Gita Sen on 6th Feb 2009 Dear Chandni, CEHAT is hosting the 4th KR Memorial Lecture on 6th February at Mumbai University. Gita Sen, a fantastic speaker and a true visionary, will be delivering a lecture on 'Equity and Health'. I highly highly recommend it, particularly to students or professionals in the development sector. I would appreciate if you could circulate this to your network. Love, Sana. Center for Enquiry into Health and Allied Themes (CEHAT) with eSocialSciences; Dept. of Economics, Mumbai University; P.G. Dept. of Economics, SNDT Women’s University and Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS) *Cordially invite you to the Fourth Anusandhan Trust’s*** *Krishna** Raj Memorial Lecture on Contemporary Issues in Health and Social Sciences*** *On* *“EQUITY AND HEALTH”* By Dr. GITA SEN *Professor at Centre for Public Policy, Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore* On February 6, 2010 (3:30 pm to 5:30 pm) At Marshal Hall, Jawaharlal Nehru Library, University of Mumbai, Vidyanagari, Santacruz (E), Mumbai * * *The Centre for Enquiry into Health and Allied themes (CEHAT)* is hosting the *Fourth K R Memorial Lecture on Contemporary Issues in Health and Social Sciences*, instituted by Anusandhan Trust in 2006. The Lecture series was instituted by Anusandhan Trust in 2006, to honor the intellectual and academic traditions set in place by Krishna Raj, social scientists and visionary editor of the *Economic and Political Weekly (EPW)*. This is by way of a humble tribute to the memory of Krishan Raj. The First Krishna Raj Memorial Lecture on “ Making and Un-making Poverty” by Prof Anirudh Krishna of Duke University, USA. This year’s Lecture is being delivered by Dr Gita Sen, eminent social scientist from the Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore. Prof Sen is at the Centre for Public Policy and her work on Equity, Gender and Health has been path-breaking. She also currently anchors the *Gender and Health Equity Project, Koppal district* (*Karnataka)*, amongst many other projects. She has been Member, Taskforce on Research Priorities for Equity in Health, World Health Organisation, 2004-2005. Notable among her work is the report to WHO Commission on Social Determinants of Health by the Women and Gender Equity Knowledge Network, * Unequal, unfair, ineffective and inefficient: Gender inequity in health* - *Why it exists and how we can change it*, in 2007 that drew attention to the challenges that remained in bringing about gender equity in health care. Notable among her other publications is *Engendering International Health: the Challenge of Equity*, (The MIT Press, 2002)`. Prof Sen will talk on ‘Equity and Health’. * * *Anusandhan Trust (AT)** was founded in 1991 to establish and run democratically managed institutions to undertake research on socially relevant health and allied themes and initiate and participate in advocacy efforts on relevant issues concerned with the well being of the disadvantaged and the poor in collaboration with organizations and individuals working with and for such people. Social Relevance, Ethics, democracy and accountability are the four operative principles that drive and underpin the activities of AT’s institutions. The Trust governs three institutions: CEHAT is one of the institutions that it runs along with SATHI (Support for Advocacy and Training in Health Initiatives) and CSER (Centre for Studies in Ethics and Rights). * For more information please call 2667 3571/ 26673154, mail to - cehat at vsnl.com. Or log on to http://www.cehat.org/go/KRMemorialSeries From akshaym at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 17:26:35 2010 From: akshaym at gmail.com (Akshay) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:26:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New Interesting photo-essays on Blindboys.org Message-ID: <1932e9471002030356h6f2ccfb4jbab421670745f110@mail.gmail.com> Take a look Alone Together by Sheetal Mallar - "Most of these people are friends of mine. Some of them are people who i have seen around often,who i had not really spoken to. But had sort of become my unspoken friends. Who i felt strangely connected with.Most of these are shot in the urban suburbs of bombay. Some of these people are from out of town,trying to make a living here. Many live in cramped spaces alone or with their parents.Most of these are shot in their homes or their personal spaces.I felt, it was the only way the mask comes off for that little while." http://blindboys.org/2010/01/alone-together-by-sheetal-mallar/ Mumbai Diary by Fabien Seguin http://blindboys.org/2010/02/mumbai-diary-by-fabien-seguin-2/ Street by Adrian Fisk Adrian brings us his signature kaliedoscopic vision from the streets of India. Adrian is a photographer and filmmaker working in asia. He is also a member of In-public. An online space representing some wonderful street photograhy and is celebrating it’s 10th anniversary. http://blindboys.org/2010/02/street/ Enjoy, -- Akshay Mahajan Photojournalist. +919833230562 http://www.akshayphoto.com | http://blindboys.org | http://trivialmatters.blogspot.com | http://www.flickr.com/photos/lecercle/ From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 23:47:29 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:47:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kala Ghoda Arts Festival 2010, Mumbai Message-ID: Here's the schedule http://www.kalaghodaassociation.com/kgaf10.pdf From sen.gargi at gmail.com Thu Feb 4 00:48:37 2010 From: sen.gargi at gmail.com (Gargi Sen) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:48:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Persistence Resistance @ MIFF Message-ID: As part of the Retrospectives and Special packages at the on-going Mumbai International Film Festival 2010, Magic Lantern Foundation is screening 5 films from the Persistence Resistance film festival package, which primarily showcases films distributed by Under Construction, Magic Lantern's distribution initiative. Dates: 7 February 2010 Time : 11.45 am to 5.45 pm Venue: Experimental Theatre, National Centre for the Performing Arts (NCPA), Mumbai For details of films and filmmakers, please visit: http://www.magiclanternfoundation.org/Events/pr_miff2010.html Gargi Sen ----- Magic Lantern Foundation J 1881 Chittaranajan Park, New Delhi 110019 P: +(91 11) 26273244; 41605239 E: magiclantern.foundation at gmail.com, info at magiclanternfoundation.org W: http://www.magiclanternfoundation.org ----- From anansi1 at earthlink.net Thu Feb 4 03:03:34 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:33:34 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Copyright Criminals: A Film about Sampling Message-ID: <15015759.1265232815205.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Copyright Criminals - a Documentary by Ben Frantzen and Kembrew Mcleod http://www.copyrightcriminals.com/trailer Copyright Criminals is a film about contemporary music and it looks at many of the prime movers in the field, and I think that they did an excellent job. They have many friends and peers of mine - Jeff Chang, Public Enemy (Chuck D who appeared on my album "Drums of Death"), Clyde Stubblefield - the drummer for James Brown, E-LP, De La Soul, and many others. I HIGHLY recommend this film for anyone who is interested in digital culture and collage aesthetics. It combines a critique of the basic "operating system" of how people look at the "vocabulary" of sampling. Check it out! Paul aka Dj Spooky http://www.copyrightcriminals.com/about Can you own a sound? Copyright Criminals examines the creative and commercial value of musical sampling, including the related debates over artistic expression, copyright law, and (of course) money. This documentary traces the rise of hip-hop from the urban streets of New York to its current status as a multibillion-dollar industry. For more than thirty years, innovative hip-hop performers and producers have been re-using portions of previously recorded music in new, otherwise original compositions. When lawyers and record companies got involved, what was once referred to as a “borrowed melody” became a “copyright infringement.”The film showcases many of hip-hop music’s founding figures like Public Enemy, De La Soul, and Digital Underground—while also featuring emerging hip-hop artists from record labels Definitive Jux, Rhymesayers, Ninja Tune, and more. It also provides an in-depth look at artists who have been sampled, such as Clyde Stubblefield (James Brown’s drummer and the world’s most sampled musician), as well as commentary by another highly sampled musician, funk legend George Clinton.As artists find ever more inventive ways to insert old influences into new material, this documentary asks a critical question, on behalf of an entire creative community: Can you own a sound? From mitoo at sarai.net Thu Feb 4 12:51:23 2010 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:51:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Ten Years of Sarai Message-ID: <4B6A7573.9020605@sarai.net> *TEN YEARS OF SARAI * Dear Readers, The Sarai Programme at CSDS will be a decade old in February, 2010. To commemorate this, we have programmes planned for the second week of February, with the final event on 12 February 2010. On 8, 9 and 10 February 2010 we have an Asian Video Art Festival curated by Tim Crowley. On 9 February, we have a Dastangoi performance. On 12 February, we will present a day long event, with an exhibition, book launches, talks, projects, and discussions. The detailed programme schedule is given below. Warmly Mitoo Das Programme Coordinator ------------------------------ *Ten Years of Sarai- Sub Events * 8th, 9th and 10th February 2010 *Asian Video Art Touring Festival "25 Reasons We Still Need Superman"* - Tim Crowley Venue: Seminar Room, CSDS Time: 4pm (daily) 9th February *Dastangoi Performance * - Mahmood Farooqui/ Danish Husain Venue: CSDS Lawns Time: 6 pm ------------------------------ 12th February *Ten Years of Sarai- Main Event * *Opening Introduction: A Decade Later* Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 2:00 pm *Tinker.Solder.Tap* Amitabh Kumar/ Bhagwati Prasad will present the graphic novel. Discussant: Lawrence Liang and Pao Collective Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 2:15 pm *Tea* *City as Studio* The City as Studio process. Presentations of Sarai City Studio Associate Fellows City as Studio digital platform goes public. Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 3:15 pm *The City as Studio Exhibition Series* Presentation of a year long exhibition design. Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 4:00 pm *Tea* (CSDS Lawns) *Launch of /Trickster City/* (Penguin, India) Readings by the authors and the translator. Venue: CSDS Lawns Time: 4:15 pm *Tea* *Welcome * Shail Mayaram, Director, CSDS Venue: Seminar Room Time: 5.30 pm *Release of the Hindi Translation of /Disenchanted Night: The Industrialization of Light in the Nineteenth Century/* (/*Betilism Raat*/) (Vani Prakashan) Readings by Sanjay Sharma and introduction to translation programme by Ravikant, editor of the series. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 5:45 pm *Launch of /Sarai Reader 08: Fear/* (Sarai-CSDS) Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6.15 pm /*The Melodramatic Public: Film Form and Spectatorship in Indian Cinema*/ (Permanent Black, Ranikhet, and Palgrave, London) Ravi Vasudevan introduces his forthcoming book, with image and short excerpts. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6.30 pm /*Pirate Modernity: Media Urbanism in Delhi*/ (Routledge, London, New York, Delhi) Ravi Sundaram introduces his new book with image and short excerpts. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6:40 pm /*Seepage*/ (Sternberg, Berlin/ New York) Raqs Media Collective introduces their new book, with image and short excerpts. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6:50 pm /*BioScope: South Asian Screen Studies*/ (Sage, India) Introduction to a new journal on film and cultural studies by Ravi Vasudevan. Venue: Seminar room Time: 7:00 pm *Ashis Nandy on Sarai's Decade* Venue: Seminar Room Time: 7:15 pm *Looking Forward* Venue: Seminar Room Time: 7:45 pm *Refreshments* 8:00 pm onwards ------------------------------ Tim Crowley is an independent curator from the United Kingdom and is presently curating a travelling video art show all over Asia. After completing a successful stint in China, he will now be showcasing his video show in India, starting off with Delhi at Sarai. Mahmood Farooqui is a writer, actor and a Dastango. He single-handedly revived the lost art form of storytelling "Dastangoi." Farooqui also contributes opinion pieces to India's leading newspapers and magazines. He has just completed a book on the 1857 uprising in Delhi. He has also directed a 30-minute documentary on Habib Tanvir, titled Dancing at 80: Habib Tanvir's Naya Theatre. Danish Husain is a leading theatre artist and has worked with some of the best names in Indian theatre. Since 2006, Husain has collaborated with his friend Mahmood Farooqui to revive the lost form of storytelling, Dastangoi. In addition to his work as an actor and performer, Husain is also a poet. His work has been published in Indian, Canadian and South African literary journals. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From kiccovich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 4 13:46:57 2010 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:16:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Ten Years of Sarai In-Reply-To: <4B6A7573.9020605@sarai.net> References: <4B6A7573.9020605@sarai.net> Message-ID: <433357.30164.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> congratulations and "happy birthday"! I wish I could be there to celebrate with you! francesca recchia kiccovich at yahoo.com it +39 338 166 3648 iq +964 (0) 750 7085 681 http://www.veleno.tv/bollettini/ ________________________________ From: Mitoo Das To: announcements at sarai.net Sent: Wed, 3 February, 2010 23:21:23 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Ten Years of Sarai *TEN YEARS OF SARAI * Dear Readers, The Sarai Programme at CSDS will be a decade old in February, 2010. To commemorate this, we have programmes planned for the second week of February, with the final event on 12 February 2010. On 8, 9 and 10 February 2010 we have an Asian Video Art Festival curated by Tim Crowley. On 9 February, we have a Dastangoi performance. On 12 February, we will present a day long event, with an exhibition, book launches, talks, projects, and discussions. The detailed programme schedule is given below. Warmly Mitoo Das Programme Coordinator ------------------------------ *Ten Years of Sarai- Sub Events * 8th, 9th and 10th February 2010 *Asian Video Art Touring Festival "25 Reasons We Still Need Superman"* - Tim Crowley Venue: Seminar Room, CSDS Time: 4pm (daily) 9th February *Dastangoi Performance * - Mahmood Farooqui/ Danish Husain Venue: CSDS Lawns Time: 6 pm ------------------------------ 12th February *Ten Years of Sarai- Main Event * *Opening Introduction: A Decade Later* Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 2:00 pm *Tinker.Solder.Tap* Amitabh Kumar/ Bhagwati Prasad will present the graphic novel. Discussant: Lawrence Liang and Pao Collective Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 2:15 pm *Tea* *City as Studio* The City as Studio process. Presentations of Sarai City Studio Associate Fellows City as Studio digital platform goes public. Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 3:15 pm *The City as Studio Exhibition Series* Presentation of a year long exhibition design. Venue: Sarai Interface Zone Time: 4:00 pm *Tea* (CSDS Lawns) *Launch of /Trickster City/* (Penguin, India) Readings by the authors and the translator. Venue: CSDS Lawns Time: 4:15 pm *Tea* *Welcome * Shail Mayaram, Director, CSDS Venue: Seminar Room Time: 5.30 pm *Release of the Hindi Translation of /Disenchanted Night: The Industrialization of Light in the Nineteenth Century/* (/*Betilism Raat*/) (Vani Prakashan) Readings by Sanjay Sharma and introduction to translation programme by Ravikant, editor of the series. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 5:45 pm *Launch of /Sarai Reader 08: Fear/* (Sarai-CSDS) Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6.15 pm /*The Melodramatic Public: Film Form and Spectatorship in Indian Cinema*/ (Permanent Black, Ranikhet, and Palgrave, London) Ravi Vasudevan introduces his forthcoming book, with image and short excerpts. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6.30 pm /*Pirate Modernity: Media Urbanism in Delhi*/ (Routledge, London, New York, Delhi) Ravi Sundaram introduces his new book with image and short excerpts. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6:40 pm /*Seepage*/ (Sternberg, Berlin/ New York) Raqs Media Collective introduces their new book, with image and short excerpts. Venue: Seminar Room Time: 6:50 pm /*BioScope: South Asian Screen Studies*/ (Sage, India) Introduction to a new journal on film and cultural studies by Ravi Vasudevan. Venue: Seminar room Time: 7:00 pm *Ashis Nandy on Sarai's Decade* Venue: Seminar Room Time: 7:15 pm *Looking Forward* Venue: Seminar Room Time: 7:45 pm *Refreshments* 8:00 pm onwards ------------------------------ Tim Crowley is an independent curator from the United Kingdom and is presently curating a travelling video art show all over Asia. After completing a successful stint in China, he will now be showcasing his video show in India, starting off with Delhi at Sarai. Mahmood Farooqui is a writer, actor and a Dastango. He single-handedly revived the lost art form of storytelling "Dastangoi." Farooqui also contributes opinion pieces to India's leading newspapers and magazines. He has just completed a book on the 1857 uprising in Delhi. He has also directed a 30-minute documentary on Habib Tanvir, titled Dancing at 80: Habib Tanvir's Naya Theatre. Danish Husain is a leading theatre artist and has worked with some of the best names in Indian theatre. Since 2006, Husain has collaborated with his friend Mahmood Farooqui to revive the lost form of storytelling, Dastangoi. In addition to his work as an actor and performer, Husain is also a poet. His work has been published in Indian, Canadian and South African literary journals. From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Feb 4 15:54:32 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:24:32 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Aman ki Asha now builds a literary bridge Message-ID: <5af37bb1002040224n1de7bedwcb72cbfc9a1fd3bd@mail.gmail.com> Aman ki Asha now builds a literary bridge http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5511166.cms From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Feb 4 22:34:50 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:34:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Participate in a Survey on Rights-Based Social Work Practice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Haresh Dalvi Date: 4 February 2010 Subject: Rights - Based Social Work Practice: A Survey Hi Chandni, If you can, please circulate this invitation to as many social workers as you can. I will be very grateful to you if you could help me in some way for this. As this is snow-ball sampling, it would be appropriate to forward this email / invitation letter to the potential participants. Or if you know such social workers, their e-groups, kindly let me know. I am a social work student at Indiana University School of Social work, Indiana, USA. I am from Mumbai and have joined this program in August 2008. Please find my invitation to participate in the survey as follows. Thanking you, Sincerely, Haresh ------ Dear Social Worker: You are hereby invited to participate in my research study through an online survey. By means of your social work practice, you are helping people in difficult life situations. While doing this work, you may come across different methods and approaches in social work practice. The Rights-Based Approach (RBA) to social work practice is one of these methods. The purpose of this survey is to understand whether and how social workers in India are applying RBA in their practices. In India, the people involved in social work practice come from various educational backgrounds. They may be trained in social work as a discipline, or they may be trained in fields like journalism, law, sociology, medicine, engineering, and so on. Considering such variety, and irrespective of your educational background or level, you are eligible to respond to this survey if you are involved in social work practice in any in India way. The information given by you can be of immense importance because we expect that the study will provide insight and a practical level of understanding for applying RBA to social work practice. Therefore your opinions are very important. This is an online survey written in English. Please find 10 minutes in your busy schedule to complete the questionnaire. Your responses will be kept completely confidential, and no information of any personal nature will be asked. In addition to providing your responses, you may choose to send this invitation and survey link to other social workers (irrespective of their educational backgrounds) so that they may also have an opportunity to participate. Please find the link to reach the survey questionnaire at ( http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/rbaswp). Your participation is voluntary, so you have the right to decline to take part in this study. If you choose to participate, please note that you are free to skip any question for which you do not feel comfortable in providing an answer, and note that you can withdraw from the study at any time. If you have any query regarding this study, please feel free to contact me, Haresh Dalvi, (hbdalvi at iupui.edu), or my advisor, Dr. Hea-Won Kim ( heakim at iupui.edu). We look forward to your participation and thank you in advance for your time and cooperation. Sincerely, Haresh Dalvi, MSW PhD Student Indiana University School of Social Work 902 W. New York St., ES 4138 Indianapolis, IN 46202, USA. From rohitrellan at aol.in Fri Feb 5 10:12:26 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:42:26 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Sufi Inayat Khan's Urs Message-ID: <8CC7434C053CB9A-34D0-326A@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> For those of you who wish to attend this: Sufi Inayat Khan's Urs Start Time:Thursday, 04 February 2010 at 09:40 End Time:Sunday, 07 February 2010 at 12:40 Location:at his dargah behind nizamuddins dargah delhi Description You are very cordially invited to the Celebration of The 83rd Urs of Hazrat Sufi Inayat Khan also commemorating the 100th anniversary of Hazrat Inayat Khan's pilgrimage to the West Thursday, February 4th to Sunday, February 7th, 2010 At Dargah Sharif Hazrat Sufi Inayat Khan Organized by the International Sufi Movement, the Sufi Order International, the Sufi Ruhaniat International, the International Sufi Way and the Hazrat Inayat Khan Memorial Trust HAZRAT SUFI INAYAT KHAN was born in Baroda on July 5th, 1882 and passed away in Delhi on February 5th, 1927. He was a preeminent Sufi mystic and master of his time, and an accomplished classical musician. As a young man his music was acknowledged in the courts of princely India, and he was at the same time a devoted mureed of his Murshid, Shaikh Syed Abu Hashim Madani of the Chishtia silsila. In 1910, responding to the words of his Murshid to "Fare forth into the world, my child, and harmonize the East and West with the harmony of thy music", he sailed with his brothers to the West where he worked for the rest of his life sharing the universal Sufi message of spiritual liberty based on love and respect for fellow humans, recognition of the unity of religious ideals, cultivation of the art of personality, and appreciation of the sacred nature of music. day 1 Thursday, February 4 ... Welcome & Attunement ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3:00pm Opening & Welcome by representatives of four Inayati tariqas in the west 3:30pm WHAT HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN CAME TO DO by Murshid Sharif Graham, Sufi Order International 4:30pm Tea break 5:00pm Review of the programme; activities of the Dargah Trust An Introduction to Qawwali and the Urs Ritual by Murshid Kiran Rana, International Sufi Way 6:00pm Zikar / Dances of Universal Peace led by Pir Shabda Kahn, Sufi Ruhaniat International 7:00pm Dinner 8:00pm CLASSICAL INDIAN MUSIC RECITAL: Ustad Ghulam Sabir Khan, Sarangi and Shri Fateh Ali Khan, Sitar day 2 Friday,February 5 ... Urs Celebrations including Fateha & Chaadar Ceremony, Universal Worship, Musical Recital and Night Vigil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 9:00am Gathering at Dargah Sharif Hazrat Sufi Inayat Khan 9:15am Procession to Dargah Sharif Hazrat Nizamuddin Aulia 9:30am Fateha Hazrat Sufi Inayat Khan at Dargah Sharif Hazrat Nizamuddin Aulia with Rang Qaul and Qawwali (ceremony under the guidance of Haji Syed Mubarak Nizami) 10:30am Blessing of the Chaadar and Procession to Dargah Sharif Hazrat Inayat Khan Sufi prayers of Pir-o-Murshid Hazrat Inayat Khan ~ Fateha Rang Qaul and Qawwali by Meraj Ahmed Nizami Qawwal Address by Murshid Nawab Pasnak Devotional raga offering by Pir Shabda Kahn 1:00pm Lunch 4:00pm Universal Worship (followed by tea) 6:00pm Friday evening Mehfil-e-Sama: Qawwali at Dargah Sufi Inayat by Meraj Ahmed Nizami Qawwal 7:30pm Dinner 8:30pm CLASSICAL INDIAN MUSIC RECITAL: Smt. Kala Ramnath, Violin 10:30pm Night vigil in Dargah Sufi Inayat - A collective remembrance of Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan through zikar, prayers, music and silence led by Murshid Kiran Rana, ending around midnight day 3 Saturday, February 6 ... Sufi Centre Programmes, Sufi Caravan, Langar and Music ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 10:00am Children's Programme presented by children of the Hazrat Inayat Khan Memorial Trust Informal School and the Dargah Hazrat Inayat Khan Hope Project 11:30am SUFI CARAVAN - MEETINGS WITH SUFI TEACHERS: Pir Rasheed- ul-Hasan Jeeli-Kaleemi ~ Khwaja Hassan Sani Nizami ~ Professor S. Ausaf Ali 12:30pm CLASSSICAL RENDITIONS OF SUFI MUSICAL POETRY by Ustad Iqbal Ahmed Khan Nizami 1:30pm Lunch 3:00pm SUFI CARAVAN - MEETINGS WITH SUFI TEACHERS: Hazrat Inam Hasan Gudri Shah ~ Murshida Asha Greer, Sufi Ruhaniat International 4:00pm Tea break 4:30pm Music Academy Programme: Recitals by classical vocal music students of the Hazrat Inayat Khan Music Academy; Instructor: Dr Anees Ahmed Nizami Music Academy Programme: Recitals by Qawwali students of the Hazrat Inayat Khan Music Academy; Instructor: Ustad Mohd. Hayat Nizami 6:00pm Langar distribution and dinner 8:00pm CLASSICAL INDIAN MUSIC RECITAL: Dr. (Mrs.) Anupam Mahajan, Sitar SUFI MUSIC FROM TURKEY: Ensemble TUMATA, with Orüç and Azize Guvenç day 4 Sunday, February 7 ... Sufi Caravan, Music as Worship ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 10:00am ANCIENT JEWISH PRAYERS FROM ISRAEL & THE DIASPORA: Ruth Wieder Magan of Theatre Company Jerusalem, Vocal 11:00am SUFI CARAVAN - MEETINGS WITH SUFI TEACHERS: Zahir Roehrs, Sufi Order International 11:30am Small group visits to the Dargah of Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan 12 noon SUFI CARAVAN - MEETINGS WITH SUFI TEACHERS: Jeanne & Kiran Rana, International Sufi Way 1:00pm Lunch break 3:30pm WESTERN SPIRITUALS AND GOSPEL MUSIC: Ms Sonam Kalra, Vocal CLASSICAL INDIAN MUSIC RECITAL: Ustad Baha'uddin Mohiuddin Dagar, Rudra Veena 6:30pm Dinner 8:00pm CLASSICAL & DEVOTIONAL INDIAN MUSIC RECITAL: Smt. Sunanda Sharma, Vocal 10:00pm Closing prayer and thanks The DARGAH OF HAZRAT SUFI INAYAT KHAN is offered to all people without regard to differences of religion, creed, gender, caste, class, nation or race. A place of prayer and meditation, silence and devotion, it is a ground for interfaith and intercommunity harmony and understanding, a spiritual center, an akasha for the divine radiance that bestows love, harmony and beauty on all. Dargah Hazrat Sufi Inayat Khan, 129 Basti Hzt. Nizamuddin, New Delhi 110 013 The Dargah is near Dargah Sharif Hzt. Nizamuddin Aulia; there is an access lane from Lodhi Road near the Shiv Mandir, across the road from the former Lodhi Hotel. For directions or inquiries phone 011-2435-0833; email hikmusac at yahoo.com From bawazainab79 at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 11:09:29 2010 From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com (Zainab Bawa) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:09:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Need some help - Ian Hacking article Message-ID: Dear all, I am writing for some help. I am, sort of desperately, looking for a copy of Ian Hacking's article titled "Biopower and the Avalanche of Printed Numbers" which appeared in Humanities in Society journal volume 5, issue 3, 1982. I have tried looking for a copy online but could not find it. Have also not been able to trace it in our library. Our librarian has begun tracing the article in other libraries in Bangalore but she has not had much much luck until now. So I am shooting out this email to check if anyone, by any chance, has a hard copy or scanned version of the article and could send it to me. Thanks, Zainab -- Zainab Bawa Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher Gaining Ground ... http://zainab.freecrow.org http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics From mitoo at sarai.net Fri Feb 5 10:50:19 2010 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:50:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Launch of Trickster City Message-ID: <4B6BAA93.8060603@sarai.net> *The launch of Trickster City at CSDS Lawns, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi on 12th February, 2010, at 4.15 PM* The authors and the translator will introduce the book. (The book is available at the Penguin Stall at the World Book Fair, Delhi) *TRICKSTER CITY *(Penguin, India, 2010) *Authors * Azra Tabassum, Jaanu Nagar, Lakhmi Chand Kohli, Rakesh Khairalia, Yashoda Singh, Kiran Verma, Suraj Rai, Neelofar, Kulwinder Kaur, Shamsher Ali, Babli Rai, Ankur Kumar, Dilip Kumar, Love Anand, Nasreen, Rabiya Quraishy, Sunita Nishad, Saifuddin, Arish Qureshi, Tripan Kumar *Translated by Shveta Sarda* Trickster City is an extraordinary composite of writings on the city of Delhi. They were written over a period of two years by a group of twenty young people who live in different places in the city of Delhi, and who have, over the last several years, sustained among themselves and with others around them, a relationship of writing and conversing about the city. This book chronicles the difficult period of loss of home and livelihood in the city through urban eviction, encounters with the agencies of the state, love stories gone awry, the fragility of relationships, and the sustained effort to build life in anticipation of beauty and pleasure. The writers draw from experiences, events and biographies, part fictive, part documentary, to inscribe an image of the city that is rarely available. There is a yearning in their writings for the expression of the poetic and allegorical alongside the harshness of everyday existence. Trickster City is an aphoristic and playful meander by writers in search of a new language that expresses the profound uncertainties and delicately realised joys of life in the city. All the writers are are in their twenties, and live in neighbourhoods across the city, including LNJP colony in Central Delhi, Dakshinpuri in South Delhi and Sawda-Ghevra, a new resettlement colony at the northern frontier of the city. They have been associated for different durations with the Cybermohalla labs set by up Ankur Society for Alternatives in Education and Sarai--CSDS in different neighbourhoods in Delhi. The translator Shveta Sarda works in Sarai-CSDS since 2001. *ADVANCE PRAISE for Trickster City* Trickster City is a groundbreaking collection of writings about the South Asian city, its authors so free in their intelligence and imagination that they put conventional, pious analysis to shame---and demonstrate, ultimately, that even the most pressing material circumstances can never constrain the kind of intelligence that lives in them. ---*Rana Dasgupta* The thumbnail sketches, vignettes, stories and testimonies here invoke an urban landscape that is only partly outside us. The chaos, uncertainties and contradictions are us, as we negotiate the city as an overwhelming, inescapable inner reality in twenty-first century India. The Trickster City may well be a lovable but impossible part of our selves. ---*Ashis Nandy* Trickster City is the gentle, compassionate anti-dote to the mass of mail-fisted representations of the 'under-class' that has become so popular these days. The writers that make up this collection are almost amazing in their restraint, their ability to distil that perfect moment that conjures up the times they live in. Story after story evokes the ways in which people keep love alive while a kind of terror, the terror of being poor in a cruel city, lurks offstage, just a midnight knock away. If you put your ear to this book you will be able to hear people breathing, if you touch it, you will be able to feel their fragile, but furious pulse. If you read this book, you will be greatly rewarded. ---*Arundhati Roy* This book is a reflection of the experiences, thoughts, ideas and aspirations of the underbelly of the metropolis. These writings have precision of thought and an optimistic determination, which looks at the future with hope, courage and patience. The portrayal of modest experience is matter of fact and the insights have a wisdom that only experience can bring and no amount of education or knowledge can impart. ---*Krishna Sobti* *Trickster City can be bought online: * http://www.indiaplaza.in/books/9780670083329.htm *See also:* http://www.sarai.net/practices/cybermohalla/public-dialogue/books/trickster-city -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From ish at sarai.net Fri Feb 5 19:45:09 2010 From: ish at sarai.net (ISh S) Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:15:09 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] sosr on 8 of feb Message-ID: <4B6C27ED.2030401@sarai.net> Hi All .. I would like to invite all of you on 8 feb, 7 pm onwards for a modern interpretaion of Mahabharat by 'Lina prod' called SOSR. I am doing the sound design for the recital. and the facebook event is at http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/event.php?eid=270802702037&ref=ts best ISh __________________________________________________________________ SOSR a Lina production at lok kala manch 20 lodhi institutional area, Lodhi road. starting at 19.00. 8 of feb 2010 featuring _________________________________________________________________ Namrata Pamnani on dance Lionel Dentan , on rebab, sitar and electro Udai Mazumdar on tabla Ish S on sound design (sound reasons rec.) Ishwar sahib on lights SoSR _________________________________________________________________ A project envisioned through the ancient text from the Mahabharata ,an indian epic written in 6th century BC. A dynamic presentation,interpretating the footprint from chaos to stillness .. This presentation is a interpretation of deep rooted Indian philolosophy of Karma. How one action leads to another ? How we never stop ? ……..never reach stillness in life ? A presentation based on research by Prof. GL Pamnani involved in bringing forward the scientific and modern interpretation to MAHABHARATA. A Script ……..painted on canvas of space…… Move into Movement to Mobility…….. To the……….. THE STILLNESS… -- Sound Reasons Records/ Sarai-CSDS http://soundreasons.in http://freemuzik.net http://sarai.net From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 17:10:04 2010 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:10:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hobsbawm (4/5 Vols.) in Hindi Translation Which Publisher? Message-ID: <5bedab661002050340l34764c0dy187a7c93bb9ec7e8@mail.gmail.com> Dear all I am looking for Hobsbawm in Hindi translation. A few months back a mail had appeared on this list, perhaps from some Publisher, which had some info regarding this. Now i have checked my inbox but the mail is no where to be found. I am planning to visit World Book Fair tomorrow. Can anybody tell me the name of the Publisher so that i can purchase the books? If i am not wrong there was some discount on the four/five volumes. Thanks in advance! Pheeta Ram From navayana at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 19:54:55 2010 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:54:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] For Apple Corporation Fans :) In-Reply-To: <361E0A38-6E75-4256-A928-A9A239761FE7@sarai.net> References: <361E0A38-6E75-4256-A928-A9A239761FE7@sarai.net> Message-ID: Thanks Jeebesh Enjoyed this thoroughly, belatedly though. Anand On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > http://www.bosey.co.in/2008/09/apple-launches-ithing-nobody-knows-what.html > > "“The iThing is amazing. Unlike windows - it never crashes, is > extremely easy to use, and has absolutely no features . .er . . > problems.”, said a spokesman for Apple. “Let's just face it - it's > just BETTER.”, he said." > > Apple launches iThing – nobody knows what it does, but millions line > up outside stores to buy one! > > by Anand Ramachandran, a proud member of the socio-religious-hip- > amazingly-cool-and-even-more-cool DELL XPS cult. What? There isn't > one? Oh! Damn! > > > World renowned cool company Apple Inc. has launched their latest > product, the iThing – a strange, minimalistic handheld device with no > apparent features or uses. Now available in stores globally, the > iThing is unbelievable sleek, sexy, desirable and useless. While even > Apple has admitted that they have no idea what it actually is, this > hasn't prevented millions of Mac fans from lining up outside retail > outlets from the wee hours of the morning to be among the first to own > one. > > “I'm a fan of anything Mac. I am proud that Apple have given me the > opportunity to cluelessly stand in line for hours and pay through my > nose for a product that I have no idea why I need!”, said a beaming > Sankalesh Jimmy, conveniently stepping in to avoid embarrasment for > any of the real-life Son of Bosey regulars, such as Tony Chacko and > Nishraj Gurung. > > “Mac fans. What idiots.”, snapped renowned windows fanatic Priya > Krishnan, while waiting for Vista to recover from a critical crash on > her Windows laptop. > > “The iThing will revolutionize boring old things. Just like the iPhone > revolutionized boring old phones, and the iMac revolutionized boring > old Macs!”, said Apple supremo Steve Jobs, immediately regretting the > last example and looking around shiftily to see if anyone noticed. > “The iThing is the neXTstep in a proud Apple tradition of 'minimalist' > design that makes products progressively more expensive and less > useful.”, said Jobs, slipping in a quick in-joke that not many picked > up on. > > “The iThing is amazing. Unlike windows - it never crashes, is > extremely easy to use, and has absolutely no features . .er . . > problems.”, said a spokesman for Apple. “Let's just face it - it's > just BETTER.”, he said. > > ““The iThing is amazing. Unlike windows - it never crashes, is > extremely easy to use, and has absolutely no features . .er . . > problems. Let's just face it - it's just BETTER ”, said a proud Mac > user, exhibiting the well-documented Mac fan behaviour of cluelessly > repeating Apple's marketing rhetoric, making people wonder why Apple > need spokesmen at all. > > “Hey, that's right! You're fired!”, said Steve Jobs to the spokesman, > suddenly springing into action and instantly making Apple even more > profitable. “We don't need any extra features, we don't need any extra > employees. We're minimalist.”, he sniggered. > > When someone nearby asked why people would be dumb enough to pay a > large amount of money for something that has no actual use, Jobs > retorted with a wink “If they believe that a company that stupidly > squandered a genuine advantage, and made a decade of crummy mistakes, > before regaining its market share a full twenty years later, is full > of innovative geniuses, they'll believe anything! Besides, they lapped > up the iPhone, didn't they?” > > “Who says the iThing has no uses?” said Wildlife photographer and > longtime Mac loyalist S.U.Saravanakumar. “Like all Apple products, it > can be used to raise self-esteem, and to pick up chicks.”, he said, > causing nearby Windows users to momentarily consider shifting to Mac > themselves. “Not that I need it, heh heh!”, he added quickly. > > “I would like to personally thank Apple for making 'I' the coolest > alphabet in the world.”, said an excited Aravind Murali. “Who wants > some Calamari?”, he asked, before trotting off with a Japanese looking > individual in the general direction of Mahabalipuram. > > As usual, other companies have been upset by Apple's instant success, > and swung into action by announcing plans of their own. Sony has > issued a press release that indicates that they will soon launch their > own version of an overpriced, useless device called the > er..uh..whateverStation. Microsoft has also said that they will issue > an e-mail statement, just as soon as they can get IE to boot up. > Nintendo was too busy making actually interesting products to respond > to our messages. > > Apple, however, is not resting on their laurels. They have already > started work on making a TV remote control with no buttons (but with a > nice, backlit Apple logo), and a gaming console that will have no > actual games of its own, but which will come with an insanely cool > virtual machine for running XBOX 360 games (just so that users can say > “Did you know, you can actually run XBOX 360 games on a Mac? Wow! > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- www.navayana.org Navayana 155, Second Floor Shahpur Jat New Delhi 110049 Landline: +91-11-26494795 Mobile: +91-9971433117 From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sat Feb 6 17:14:22 2010 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:14:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fear of attack on Anti-POSCO movement In-Reply-To: References: <809b7c0d1002052025hbbf5dd1v65f95d01fcfcdd2b@mail.gmail.com> <809b7c0d1002052033w3df6171bu770240f0c96781fb@mail.gmail.com> <809b7c0d1002052355haf04e9pbd44c92b2f095c48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35f96d471002060344g2e7acef8i8659651e06cfebda@mail.gmail.com> PRESS RELEASE:        URGENT! Fear of attack on Anti-POSCO movement Balitutha, Orissa: The threat of state and company sponsored violence looms large over hundreds of farmers sitting on an indefinite dharna at Balitutha in Jagatsinghpur district against the Orissa government’s pet POSCO steel project. Since 26 January this year the farmers have been carrying out their peaceful protest against fresh attempts by the Naveen Patnaik regime to acquire their land on behalf of the South Korean steel corporation. “We are expecting police action any time soon including an attack on our leader Abhay Sahoo by goons hired by the company,” said a spokesperson of the POSCO Pratirodh Sangram Samithi (PPSS), which has spearheaded the agitation against the project for the past five years. Over 30,000 farmers are expected to lose their lands and livelihood if the US$12 billion project, billed as India’s largest Foreign Direct Investment, is implemented. POSCO signed an MoU with the Orissa government in mid-2005, for the setting up of an integrated steel and power plant, a private port and mining of over 600 million tonnes of Orissa’s high grade iron ore. For the steel and power plants alone the project needs around 4004 acres, of which 3566 acres is government owned forest and revenue land but 438 acres belongs to local farmers who are refusing to part with it. The PPSS apprehends that over 25 platoons of police are being brought in to surround the farmers sitting on dharna at Balitutha, which is at the entrance to the land that belongs to them. As per a letter issued by the Collector of Jagatsinghpur District on January 19 this year Palli Sabhas in the project area have been asked to obtain approval of local bodies about the ‘diversion of their lands under forest category to POSCO’ by February 10th. On February 3 however, at a meeting of Palli Sabha of Nuagaon village all the 700 participants unanimously disapproved of the move. In a resolution passed at the Palli Sabha they said  that such lands were being used by people for cultivation and housing since last 300 years and in no case they can be handed over to POSCO.  Other Palli Sabhas in the area are expected to pass similar resolutions. PPSS activists say, faced with the firm opposition to the POSCO project and land acquisition the Orissa adminstration is getting desperate and plans to remove the farmers by force. On February 1 the state government issued a notice in various newspapers that if the people fail to file  their claims for compensation within fifteen days, they will get nothing at all. The PPSS dharna has found support around the country with leaders of trade unions and people’s movements visiting the protestors sitting on dharna. Those participating in the dharna include leaders of leaders of the All India Trade Union Congress from different states  and the Orissa Bidi Workers  and Domestic Workers Associations. For further information contact: Prashant Paikray, spokesperson, PPSS at Ph: (0) 9437571547. -- "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sat Feb 6 18:50:11 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:50:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Query - Influential Indians Online? Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Peter Griffin Date: 4 Feb 2010 Subject: [Griff's Picks] Query - Influential Indians Online? To: Griff's Picks Payback time. You don't think I send out all those articles for altruistic reasons, do you? ==== Tell me, who, in your opinion, are the most influential Indians online? This includes blogs, Twitter, Facebook, Orkut, any other networking microblogging sites you know of, personal websites, and so on. Many thanks, ~p -- Options, archives: http://groups.google.com/group/griffspicks Share with friends: http://groups.google.com/group/griffspicks/members_invite From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sat Feb 6 19:46:44 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:46:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Blog Post: Do our men have body issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm interested in the responses too. Intend to resume working on my module for workshops on body image/body acceptance soon. - Me >From http://www.openthemagazine.com/blogpost/do-our-men-have-body-issues - By Shubhangi Swarup Of late I’ve been catching a male friend or two looking in the mirror. When they see me seeing them, they ask, “Have I put on weight?” Yesterday a good friend asked me, “Do I look fat?” Immediately, alarm bells rang in my thoughts. As an insecure female, I thought it was my birthright—and only mine—to complain about my weight, go loopy at times when confronted with fat me. In my mind, men were above this kind of loopiness; they could go ahead and order a cold coffee or lassi with cream without mentally counting the extra calories. They could pose under a monsoon waterfall in their underwear without fear of being judged. The Indian male, it must be said, can get away with paunchiness, baldness, hairiness with dignity intact, even style if one can call it that. To be exposed to the adolescent girl hiding under that tough exterior is a shock to me. My expression conveyed as much to my friend when he asked the million-dollar question, and laughed. “Maybe I have too much oestrogen,” he joked. We laughed. But there’s something sinister going on here that I can’t laugh off. It took me a few years, lots of self-counselling and supportive partners to grow out of my fragile, college-day body image. To enjoy a dessert without guilt. Or stop resenting skinny girls for no reason. Spending three months with a dance troupe in Turkey tested my self-image greatly, and I’m proud to have returned home without an eating disorder or inferiority complex. Dancers are size zero. When one of my mates fell violently sick and lost many pounds, another girl congratulated her at the achievement. Just a few weeks ago, I was chatting with someone about dance bars, how popular they were and all that. Not all men who visit dance bars visit prostitutes. This is something I find hard to understand, and my friend spent a passionate, caffeinated half hour explaining the phenomenon. “Imagine you are an ugly, pot-bellied guy who no one checks out. You step into a bar, and for a few drinks and a little money, these dance girls make you feel like the hottest shit going. They have eyes for no one but you.” According to him, the universal need to be checked out, to feel hot is as vital as the need to get laid. Okay, so some men visit dance bars to be checked out. For inexplicable reasons, commenting on my sister’s weight gain post pregnancy is a huge source of dining table humour for everyone, including her husband. After one such jibe, my dad wryly commented once how he never said a word to mum, despite the double-digit kilos she gained with each pregnancy. Mum loves feeding dad fried potatoes and dessert. And dad can’t handle mum dieting. He knows how happy sweet things make her. Their relationship says something, something relevant to this blog, but I don’t know what. Looks never mattered in their equation, but I don’t know if it’s as simple as that. Where have we gone wrong, or how are we going wrong? Emancipation never meant converting female insecurities into male ones. Among the few perceived advantages women had was our ability to fall in love with ugly men. We didn’t go by inches. We were happy to have found companionship. Clearly, this is in the realm of myth-making. Or else, why would the other half of our equation fall prey to the boy issues we love wallowing in? Perhaps I’m overreacting. Perhaps this is just a Bombay thing. I wonder if people in other cities have seen this too. From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sat Feb 6 23:46:16 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:16:16 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] 100 Years of African American Cinema Message-ID: <26247751.1265480176865.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> reasonably interesting article Paul Celebrating 100 Years of Black Cinema From the earliest days of film, black pioneers have imagined a better world for African Americans-a world that was often far ahead of reality. By Nsenga Burton | Posted: February 3, 2010 at 12:27 PM http://www.theroot.com/views/celebrating-100-years-black-cinema-0 As we all know, February marks Black History Month. But this year, February also marks something else: The 100th anniversary of the birth of black cinema. Black cinema was making black history before Carter G. Woodson founded Negro History Week in 1926. And this week, black cinema is making history once again with the nomination of Precious: Based on the Novel Push By Sapphire for Best Picture. It's the first time in the history of the Academy Awards that a film directed by a black director is nominated for the top award. Director Lee Daniels is following in the footsteps of those who came before him- namely, William D. Foster and Oscar Micheaux. Oscar Micheaux is often lauded as the father of black filmmakers. But William D. Foster began producing films nearly a decade earlier than Micheaux's first effort. In 1910, Foster, a sports writer for the Chicago Defender, formed the Foster Photoplay Company, the first independent African-American film company. (Foster wasn't a complete stranger to show business; he had also worked as a press agent for vaudeville stars Bert Williams and George Walker.) In 1912, Foster, produced and directed The Railroad Porter. The film paid homage to the Keystone comic chases, while attempting to address the pervasive derogatory stereotypes of blacks in film. This was three years before D.W. Griffith's The Birth of a Nation (1915), a plantation fantasy credited with establishing negative stereotypes of blacks in film that still exists today. Consider the Reconstruction scene, where barefoot black legislators eat fried chicken, swill whiskey, lust after white women and pass a law that all legislators must wear shoes. Insert a cantankerous mammy, tragic mulatto, murderous buck, black rapists and a lynching, and you've got what is shamefully considered to be one of the greatest films of all time. In response to The Birth of a Nation, brothers George Perry Johnson and Noble Johnson (a Universal Pictures contract actor), founded the Lincoln Motion Picture Company in 1916, producing middle-class melodramas like The Realization of a Negro's Ambition (1916) and the Trooper of Troop K (1917) and their most well-known film, The Birth of a Race (1918). The Johnson brothers' movies featured black soldiers, black families and black heroes, concepts foreign to most mainstream films at that time. Oscar Micheaux soon followed suit with The Homesteader (1919), becoming one of the most prolific filmmakers of his time. He directed over 40 films, most notably Within Our Gates (1920) and Body and Soul (1925), which featured film star Paul Robeson, and God's Step Children (1938). Micheaux's films explored the issues of the day: passing, lynching, religion and criminal behavior. They were independently produced until he filed bankruptcy in 1928, reorganizing with white investors as the Micheaux Film Company. Some argue that this changed the tone and direction of his films. Micheaux's films attracted controversy: Some black film critics criticized his work for its portrayal of blacks, which sometimes perpetuated the same stereotypes found in mainstream films. You didn't find these stereotypes with the work of Eloise Gist, a black woman filmmaker, who with her husband, James, made religious films. Eloise Gist, a D.C. native, drove around with a camera, shooting footage that used "real" people as actors. Her morality films, Hellbound Train and Verdict: Not Guilty, were released in 1930 and were strongly endorsed by the NAACP. Early black filmmakers aimed to show the full humanity of African Americans with story lines and themes that countered prevailing ideologies about blackness. Many of the films are hard to find and have "poor" production values because they were literally making something out of nothing. Early black cinema is an important part of American culture because it visually brought our stories to life. Without the black independent film movement, there would be very few black films today. Where would the black film canon be without the Los Angeles School of Black Filmmakers of the 1970s? Haile Gerima, Charles Burnett, Larry Clark, Pamela Jones, Jamaa Fanaka, Julie Dash, Billy Woodberry, Alile Sharon Larkin all came out of UCLA. Their films tied black stories to black political struggles with an intellectual and cultural core. Some say Melvin Van Peebles' Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song (1971) was revolutionary; others found it to be pornographic Van Peebles made this cult classic for $500,000; it grossed $10 million. Without Sweet Sweetback, there would have been no space for Gordon Parks Jr., Ossie Davis and others to direct films during the blaxploitation era. Although controversial, the blaxploitation era gave black actors, filmmakers and musicians an opportunity to make movies-at least in the beginning. During that era, one of the most profound independent films of all time emerged-Ivan Dixon and Sam Greenlee's The Spook Who Sat by the Door (1973), which gave voice and visuals to the black power ideology that was evolving at that time. It was an unapologetic look at rebellion and literally using the masters' tools to dismantle the masters' house. It wasn't so long ago that so many people of all races didn't believe that they would see an African-American president in their lifetime. But what some couldn't imagine in reality, black filmmakers created in fantasy, reimagining an America where a black man could be president. In The Man (1972), James Earl Jones stars as Douglass Dilman, a black man who becomes president of the United States after the untimely deaths of the president and speaker of the House. (The vice president was too sick to take over.) Jones brilliantly conveys the struggle over power and identity in this cult classic that shows the complexity of race and class in the Oval Office. Historically, black cinema has been inextricably linked to social issues in our community. The controversy over Tyler Perry's and Daniels' films has a lot to do with class issues, something that Oscar Micheaux also experienced. While black filmmakers have broken many barriers, there is still much work to be done. For example, Cheryl Boone Isaacs is currently the only African American among the 43 governors of Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. While African-American film directors like Antoine Fuqua and F. Gary Gray are directing films that encompass many different genres including action and suspense, black female directors like Kasi Lemmons (Eve's Bayou) and Euzhan Palcy (A Dry White Season) have not fared as well. Black cinema has always imagined what we could never dream of in reality. Now that reality is catching up with black film, it will be fascinating to see where it goes, particularly on the independent front. Let's think about how the concept of black cinema is being redefined when a film like Avatar features Zoe Saldana, Laz Alonso and CCH Pounder in starring roles. Black cinema is evolving and will continue to evolve. It did not start with Tyler Perry, nor will it end with him. There would be no Denzel Washington without Sidney Poitier and no Sidney Poitier without Paul Robeson. There would be no Halle Berry without Dorothy Dandridge, no Dorothy Dandridge without Lena Horne and Lena Horne without Fredi Washington. There would be no Hughes Brothers without the Johnson Brothers, no Lee Daniels without Spike Lee, no Gina Prince-Bythewood without Darnell Martin. There would be no Tyler Perry Company without New Millenium Studios, no New Millenium Studios without Third World Cinema. As in many other industries, African Americans have made their mark in film narratively, stylistically, historically, thematically, economically and aesthetically. What some call poor production values, particularly as it relates to early black films, I call a survival aesthetic-doing the best that we can with what we have. Now that we have 100 years under our belts, we will do better. No matter how much black film changes, the ways in which we interrogate society through our films will not. As we embark on a new decade in American society where many believe race will become less of an issue, we often forget how long black film has been around and how it has given voice-and image-to our issues. Black cinema is black history-and our future. Nsenga K. Burton Ph.D. serves as cultural critic for Creative Loafing. An assistant professor at Goucher College in Baltimore, she is a media scholar and filmmaker who recently finished Four Acts, a documentary on the 2007 public servants strike in South Africa. Follow her on Twitter. From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 7 12:03:13 2010 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:03:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Anti-POSCO activists boycott Orissa Government's meeting on POSCO project Message-ID: <35f96d471002062233l58104035kacda8101e8be78f@mail.gmail.com> Anti-POSCO activists boycott Orissa Government's meeting on POSCO project Saturday, February 06, 2010 http://www.orissadiary.com/CurrentNews.asp?id=16641 Report by Amarnath Parida; Jagatsinghpur: Posco meeting which was scheduled to finalise the betel vine compensation and other rehabilitation packages by the presence of the Chairman cum Managing Director, IDCO has paralyzed on Saturday due to boycott to attend this meeting by the members of United Action Committee . Sources said that the members of UAC, a purportedly pro-Posco outfit in the project site area, threatened not to abstain the today's Posco meeting being chaired by Chairman cum Managing Director, IDCO Mr. Priyabrat Pattnaik to finalize the betel vine compensation, rehabilitation packages and other issues related to Posco steel project on an also sent their opening to the district administration through fax on Friday. UAC members have expressed that their various demands like normalcy in trouble torn Dhinkia, Gobindpur villages, resettlement to left out 70 villagers in their village, proposal of illegal deployment of police in peace zone area, false commitment of administration and police to restore peace, distribution of form for applying compensation of betel vine without the knowledge of villagers and other demands have not yet fulfilled. Earlier, the members of UAC decided not to apply to the district administration in Jagatsinghpur for compensation against loss of betel vines unless their 29-point charter of demands relating to compensation, rehabilitation package and employment are fulfilled. In parallel, the Posco Pratirodha Sangram Samiti (PPSS), the organization spearheading the anti-Posco movement, urged the villagers of Dhinkia not to receive the application forms pertaining to compensation for protesting Posco project .It may be noted that administration has invited application forms from the betel vine losers from 1st to 10th February for disbursement of compensation while BDO, Erasama has issued notification of sarpanch of Dhinkia, Nuagaon and Gadkujang panchyats to conduct pallisabha to hand over forest land to Posco Company. CMD, IDCO Mr Pattnaik intervened in this matter and sought the cooperation of the members of UAC to finalise the compensation and rehabilitation packages so he scheduled to attend this meeting at Paradip on Saturday. Meanwhile, his visit to Paradip has been canceled and Posco meeting has also paraylsed due to abstain of UAC members on today. On the other hand, UAC members Mr Tamil Pradhan, Nirvya Samntray and Gadkujang Sarpanch Mr Nakul Sahoo have expressed that UAC has invited district officials, CMD, IDCO and Posco officials to project site to discuss everything in the presence of villagers. District Collector Mr Gyanranjan Dash has expressed that today's meting has been deferred because of CMD, IDCO's busy in other meeting. He informed that no fax message members regarding skip of this meeting has yet received. -- "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 7 12:27:08 2010 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:27:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Anti-Posco Struggle: Ground Zero by Dilip Bisoi Message-ID: <35f96d471002062257g78363a5fic08f06b2043d251c@mail.gmail.com> Ground Zero http://orissaconcerns.net/2010/02/ground-zero/ Dilip Bisoi Financial Express Posted online: Feb 07, 2010 at 1959 hrs >From Bhubaneswar, it takes us five hours to reach Patna village, at the heart of Posco-India’s planned 12-million tonne steel plant. We find children playing with pebbles, but they aren’t at an innocuous game—they arrange tiny stones across the road when they see an approaching vehicle, imitating elders who routinely put up road blockades or gates to prevent entry of unknown vehicles. Patna falls within the core area of the proposed 4,004 acre plant site, and villagers, who are against the project, keep round-the-clock vigil on the movement of outsiders. Orissa Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik may have assured South Korean President Lee Myung-Bak that the land acquisition process for the $12-billion plant in Orissa’s Jagatsinghpur district will be speeded up, but at Ground Zero, things don’t look so easy. Posco-India still doesn’t have an inch of land, though the final forest clearance came through in December, on the eve of Lee’s visit to India as chief guest for Republic Day. Of the 4,004 acres identified for the project, 2,958.79 acres is forestland. He was keen to visit the Posco site, but was told the ground situation wasn’t conducive. There’s stiff resistance to the project from locals, but Posco-India and the Orissa government is hoping to win over the opposition with the promise of a better rehabilitation and resettlement policy. “The resettlement and rehabilitation package of Posco-India for the plant at Jagatsinghpur is in line with the Orissa government’s R&R Rules 2006, which is regarded as one of the best R&R policies in the country,” says Posco-India General Manager (external relations) Simanta Mohanty. “We are confident that everybody in our project area will be at an advantage with our package. Our package is specially oriented towards landless labour and we have made special provisions for employment of those needing jobs. We are compensating those who have planted betel vines on government land and we are sure they will see that we are giving them a fair deal,” he adds. Over the past three months, the Patnaik government, too, has given a push to the land acquisition process, but villagers will need a lot of convincing before they give up their land. In neighbouring Govindpur, children play cricket, imagining the ball to be Posco-India. Every time a batsman hits the ball hard, a cheer goes up. The villagers of Govindpur are quite militant in their opposition to the project, considered to be the country’s largest FDI. Four years of agitation have changed the lives of villagers living in Posco’s proposed site. For villagers, guarding the gates has become a daily chore. All their discussions revolve around the Posco project. Womenfolk do their household work, but with an eye on the main street for Posco executives or government officials. Posco officials are often detained for a few hours by villagers. The two villages of Govindpur and Dhinkia are at the heart of the site and this is where the dictates of the Posco Pratirodha Sangaram Samiti (PPSS), the organisation that is spearheading the anti-project movement, runs. PPSS has virtually converted the 4,004 acres into a fort, with 17 gates plugging all the roads to the core area. No gates open without the permission of PPSS. The PPSS chief, Abhaya Sahoo, guards the main gate at Balitutha, the entry point to the Posco site. The PPSS network is quite strong. When government officials or Posco company executives start from Bhubaneswar for Jagatsinghpur, Sahoo gets the information, and villagers are alerted immediately. With the forest clearance coming through, and Lee’s visit putting the project onto the fast track, the Jagatsinghpur Collector has put out ads asking betel vine owners to claim compensation and give up the land. Interestingly, the 4,004 acres is part of a vast stretch of land that was added to the mainland when the sea receded, so the landscape is dotted with huge sand mounds. The government says the reclaimed land is government land but people have lived here for generations. Over the years, the forests too have disappeared—first the mangroves and then the casuarina plantations, destroyed by a super cyclone. Now, villagers grow betel vines and cashew on the high lands and have converted the low laying areas to paddy fields. “The paddy field gives us rice for the whole year and the betel vines the cash to buy other items,” says Ramesh Mohanty. “We will not allow the Posco project to come up on this site,” says PPSS chief Abhaya Sahoo. “No rehabilitation and resettlement (R&R) policy is acceptable to us,” he points out. When you argue that Posco-India has promised to give a better package than the R&R package announced by the state government, Dhinkia sarpanch Sisira Mohapatra, who is also the general secretary of PPSS, shows you the R&R package of Indian Oil Corporation (IOC) for the oustees of Paradip Refinery project. A vacant plot of seven acres, earmarked with concrete pillars outside village Dhinka, is the so-called rehabilitation colony. The abandoned, dilapidated facility centre (hospitals, schools and temples) isn’t assuring villagers. “We have seen the R&R package of a public sector company. How do we trust a foreign private company?” Mohapatra shoots back. The stories of promises not kept and the success of people’s movements like the anti-missile test range agitation of Baliapal have kept the resistance against Posco alive. But the Orissa government too has made a heap of promises to Posco-India which it will find very difficult to walk away from. -- "[It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information." - Donald Knuth From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 7 18:17:51 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:47:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] test Message-ID: <640791.69970.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From aiindex at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 00:18:10 2010 From: aiindex at gmail.com (Harsh Kapoor) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:18:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International in bed with Jihadi types (just like many on the left) Message-ID: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7017810.ece >From The Sunday Times February 7, 2010 Amnesty International is ‘damaged’ by Taliban link An official at the human rights charity deplores its work with a ‘jihadist’ Amnesty International demonstrators wearing boiler suits by Richard Kerbaj A SENIOR official at Amnesty International has accused the charity of putting the human rights of Al-Qaeda terror suspects above those of their victims. Gita Sahgal, head of the gender unit at Amnesty’s international secretariat, believes that collaborating with Moazzam Begg, a former British inmate at Guantanamo Bay, “fundamentally damages” the organisation’s reputation. In an email sent to Amnesty’s top bosses, she suggests the charity has mistakenly allied itself with Begg and his “jihadi” group, Cageprisoners, out of fear of being branded racist and Islamophobic. Sahgal describes Begg as “Britain’s most famous supporter of the Taliban”. He has championed the rights of jailed Al-Qaeda members and hate preachers, including Anwar al-Awlaki, the alleged spiritual mentor of the Christmas Day Detroit plane bomber. Amnesty’s work with Cageprisoners took it to Downing Street last month to demand the closure of Guantanamo Bay. Begg has also embarked on a European tour, hosted by Amnesty, urging countries to offer safe haven to Guantanamo detainees. This is despite concerns about former inmates returning to terrorism. Sahgal, who has researched religious fundamentalism for 20 years, has decided to go public because she feels Amnesty has ignored her warnings for the past two years about the involvement of Begg in the charity’s Counter Terror With Justice campaign. “I believe the campaign fundamentally damages Amnesty International’s integrity and, more importantly, constitutes a threat to human rights,” Sahgal wrote in an email to the organisation’s leaders on January 30. “To be appearing on platforms with Britain’s most famous supporter of the Taliban, whom we treat as a human rights defender, is a gross error of judgment.” Amnesty is the world’s biggest human rights organisation with 2.2m members and a galaxy of celebrity supporters, including Bono, John Cleese, Yoko Ono, Al Pacino and Sinead O’Connor. Its decision to work with Begg poses liberal backers with a moral dilemma and raises questions about the direction in which Amnesty has travelled since it was set up in 1961 to support “prisoners of conscience”. “As a former Guantanamo detainee it was legitimate to hear his experiences, but as a supporter of the Taliban it was absolutely wrong to legitimise him as a partner,” Sahgal told The Sunday Times. Begg, 42, from Birmingham, was held at Guantanamo for three years until 2005 under suspicion of links to Al-Qaeda, which he denies. Prior to his arrest, Begg lived with his family in Kabul and praised the Taliban in his memoirs as “better than anything Afghanistan has had in 20 years”. After his release Begg became the figurehead for Cageprisoners, which describes itself as “a human rights organisation that exists solely to raise awareness of the plight of prisoners ... held as part of the War On Terror”. Among the Muslim inmates it highlights are Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Abu Hamza, the hook-handed cleric facing extradition from Britain to America on terror charges, and Abu Qatada, a preacher described as Osama Bin Laden’s “European ambassador”. Sahgal, 53, is not the only critic of Begg at Amnesty. In 2008 a board member of its US arm opposed Begg’s appearance, via videolink, at its AGM, but was overruled. When Begg appeared at Downing Street last month as part of a group delivering a letter to Gordon Brown calling for the release of the last British resident held at Guantanamo, he was accompanied by Kate Allen, head of Amnesty’s UK section since 2000. Allen is a leftwinger who was the girlfriend of Ken Livingstone, the former mayor of London, for almost 20 years. This weekend Amnesty said it had launched an internal inquiry after Sahgal raised her concerns with bosses, including Allen and Claudio Cordone, the interim secretary-general. Anne Fitzgerald, policy director of Amnesty’s international secretariat, said the charity had formed a relationship with Begg because he was a “compelling speaker” on detention. She said he had been paid expenses for his attendance at its events. Asked if she thought Begg was a human rights advocate, Fitzgerald said: “It’s something you’d have to speak to him about. I don’t have the information to answer that.” Yesterday Begg dismissed Sahgal’s claims as “ridiculous”. He defended his support for the Taliban and the decision by Cageprisoners to highlight the plight of detainees linked to Al-Qaeda: “We need to be engaging with those people who we find most unpalatable. I don’t consider anybody a terrorist until they have been charged and convicted of terrorism.” From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 01:39:58 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:39:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Seagull Resource Centre needs Programme Assistant for Arts Programme -- Kolkata, India Message-ID: *From Bishan Samaddar* February 6 at 7:37pm Hello friends! At Seagull, we are looking for a Programme Assistant for our Arts Programme. Responsibilities: To supervise and coordinate arts events at Seagull Arts and Media Resource Centre. The job includes communicating with other galleries and art spaces, and with the Press. The person must have good administrative and communication skills, coupled with basic computer knowledge. Salary commensurate with experience and qualifications. If you are interested in joining Seagull, or know someone who would be interested, please contact us. meghsmal at gmail.com theproseandthepassion at gmail.com Hoping to hear from you soon. Thanks, The Seagull team. From dattuagarwal at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 04:13:54 2010 From: dattuagarwal at gmail.com (Dattu Agarwal Agarwal) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:43:54 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] request for donation to Smt. Ambubai Residential School for Blind Girls Gulbarga Message-ID: <9545e7841002071443h29af3432w1a0f932f5f4816e3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Readers, I appeal for donation to Smt. Ambubai School for Blind Girls Gulbarga. At present the school is being managed by the funds received from local donors and managing committee members but that is not sufficient. At present there are forty blind girls at our school. Food clothing bedding medicine and all other basic needs of the children are being provided free of cost. The children belong to under privileged community with rural background. Apart from formal education music, craft, vocational education, mobility training etc is given in the school. The important thing to note is that ours is the only one school in the entire Hyderabad Karnataka region which is exclusively reserved for blind girls. Three teachers and five non-teaching staff members are working in the school. For the maintenance of hostel, salary of staff members, clothing, bedding building rent etc we require about 12,0000 twelve lakh rupees for the year 2009/2010. Keeping this in mind I invite the donors to come forward to donate generously to Smt. Ambubai School for the Blind Girls Gulbarga. I also request the interested donors to visit our school. Cheques, Demand drafts, Money orders can be sent to the following address--- Head Mistress Smt. Ambubai School for the Blind Girls, H.No. 4-282, Maktampura Gulbarga Karnataka India. Yours sincerely Prof. Dattu Agarwal Hon. Chairman Hyderabad Karnataka Disabled Welfare Society Gulbarga Karnataka state India. Ph.No. 08472-223044 Mobile 09449308779. Personal e-mail ID dattu.agarwal at ... From magiclantern.foundation at gmail.com Sat Feb 6 20:06:05 2010 From: magiclantern.foundation at gmail.com (Magic Lantern Foundation) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:06:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Persistence Resistance 2010 Message-ID: Dear Friends We are happy to announce Persistence Resistance  2010: a festival of contemporary political films to be held from 25th- 27th February 2010 at the India International Centre, New Delhi. The festival will screen a large number of films using multiple screening and viewing practices: films will be screened in auditoriums, in the outdoors, in simulated video parlours, at multi-hub video library and as installations. We will send a detailed programme, screening schedule etc as they firm up. Meanwhile, we would be happy if you could block your dates. We look forward to your presence at the festival. Please also circulate this information among those who might be interested to attend or write about the festival. With Best Wishes MLF Festival Team -- Magic Lantern Foundation J-1881, Chittaranjan Park New Delhi - 110 019 Ph:(011) 26273244; 41605239 email: , Website: www.magiclanternfoundation.org From press at tank.tv Tue Feb 2 17:08:25 2010 From: press at tank.tv (tank.tv press) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:38:25 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] www.tank.tv : Now Showing Paul McCarthy, until 29th Feb Message-ID: <78c84f091002020338h39fc0ccp449e8f12c1bef709@mail.gmail.com> *www.tank.tv: Now Showing Paul McCarthy, until 29th Feb * "The Father Begat the Son The Son Begat the Father" Paul McCarthy,* Family Tyranny*. Throughout February tank.tv will have the pleasure of exhibiting two works by Paul McCarthy. *Family Tyranny* & *Cultural Soup* were cut from two days of taped performance at a community television studio in 1987. Featuring McCarthy's fellow artist Mike Kelley, the videos are disturbing tableaux of familial horror, steeped in the stomach turning abjection that characterises the artist's now renowned body of work. Performed within a barely credible domestic set the format and characters in the videos enact several tropes of televised entertainment - the unruly teenager (as Mike Kelley attempts an escape through a window-like aperture) and the ‘how-to’ format of the cooking or DIY programme. The characters, just like the set, sit on the very edge of plausibility whilst the props also take on a life of their own at the border between representation and reality. It is this juncture, between fact and fiction, that McCarthy occupies in order to examine the dark fictions of cultural convention. Rather than produce these works as performance in 1987 McCarthy used that very contemporary tool of representation – video – to situate *Family Tyranny *and *Cultural Soup* closer to the domestic sphere than an ephemeral art event would have allowed. tank.tv is pleased to be able to re-situate this work once again within the context of an online community that experiences broadcast media in a way that could not previously have been imagined. This show is held in conjunction with a screening of McCarthy's *Contemporary Cure All *and* **F-Fort* on the 6th February at 7pm in Tate Modern's Starr Auditorium. Book your tickets early through the Tate box office. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ------------------------------ www.tank.tv www.tank.tv/freshmoves.htm -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA press at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fresh Moves - Out now! Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From iram at sarai.net Mon Feb 8 00:19:56 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:49:56 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] SAA, JNU: talk by Bhaskar Sarkar Message-ID: <4B6F0B54.4090202@sarai.net> The School of Arts and Aesthetics Jawaharlal Nehru University Presents "Partition, Cinema, Mourning" A Talk by Bhaskar Sarkar Associate Profesor of Film and Media Studies, University of California at Santa Barbara Author of Mourning the Nation:Indian Cinema in the Wake of Partition At The School of Arts and Aesthetics Auditorium 11th February, 2010 at 5 pm Tea will be served from 4.30 pm onwards _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Tue Feb 2 15:08:50 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (netEX) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:38:50 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_netEX=3A_calls_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_deadlines_--=3EFebruary_2010?= Message-ID: <20100202103851.3E4E78B4.1B6DAF89@192.168.0.2> netEX: calls & deadlines -->February 2010 ------------------------------------- NewMediafest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne ------------------------------------- newsletter contents a) . news b) calls & deadlines --> 04 Calls: 2010 deadlines internal 22 Calls: February 2010 deadlines external 11 Calls: ongoing external/internal ------------------------------------------------ a) news 1) On 1 January 2010 [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne launched NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture a festival context in an exchange between virtual and physical space 1 January -31 December 2010 http://2010.newmedifest.org 2) NewMediaFest'2010 announces the first venue in 2010 The presentation of the entire CologneOFF V festival program on CeC - Carnival of e-Creativity Sattal/India http://www.theaea.org/cec_cac/cec10/index.htm ------------------------------------------------ b) Calls & deadlines ---> ------------------------------------------------ 2010: deadlines internal NewMediaFest'2010 has currently 4 calls running CologneOFF VI - Let's Celebrate! - deadline 5 April 2010 Call for film & videoart 5 Years Cologne Online Film Festival http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1907 VideoChannel - deadline 2 March 2010 [self] ~imaging - artists portraying themselves in film & video http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1852 NewMediaFest'2010 VideoChannel - deadline 2 April 2010 One Minute Films of OMFC (One Minute Film Collection) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=447 NewMediaFest'2010 *ongoing deadline 1 September 2009 - 1 September 2010 Java Museum - Forum for internet Technology in Contemporary Art will be celebrating in 2010 its 10th anniversary and is looking for Internet based art from the years 2000-2010 details, regulations and entry form can be found on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1428 ------------------------------------------------ February 2010 deadlines: external ------------------------------------------------ 28 February Le Ville Matte residency Cagliari/Italy http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1922 28 February Detmold ShortFilm Festival /Germany http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1954 19 February Anti - Contemporary Art Festival Kuopio/Finland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1964 15 February Cynetart Competition 2010 - Dresden/Germany http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1942 28 February Residency 2010 at Edith Russ Haus Oldenburg/Germany http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1832 28 February Arse Elektronika 2010 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1640 26 February Crosstalk Videoart Festival Budapest/Hungary http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1634 23 February Currents 2010 - Santa Fe/New Mexico (USA) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1892 19 February Media City Film Festival 2010 Windsor/Canada http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1632 15 February Australian International Experimental Film Festival http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1886 15 February 2nd International New Media Art Festival Damascus/Syria http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1933 15 February Athens Video Art Festival 2010 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1838 15 February 56th Oberhausen Short Film Festival (German competition) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1653 15 February Videofestival Bochum (Germany) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1807 14 February re-new Digital Arts Festival Copenhagen/DK http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1961 5 February 14th Annual Shortfilm and Video Festival Tempe/Arizona (USA) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1876 5 February LUMEN_EX Digital Art Award 2010 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1889 2 February Rhizome Curatorial Fellow http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1973 1 February GO SHORT Online Competition Nijmegen/NL http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1925 1 February Sounding landscapes - soundart http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1804 1 February Writers residency in Bialsytok/Poland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1902 ----------------------------------------------- Ongoing calls: external/internal ----------------------------------------------- ---> SFC - Shoah Film Collection by VideoChannel & A Virtual Memorial Foundation ---> Selfshadows 2.= - net based project by Javier Bedrina -->Videos for Bivouac Projects Sumter/USA -->OUTCASTING - web based screenings -->Films and video screenings Sioux City (USA) -->Laisle screenings Rio de Janeiro/Brazil -->Videos for Helsinki based video gallery - 00130 Gallery -->Web based works for 00130 Gallery Helsinki/Finland -->Project: Repetition as a Model for Progression by Marianne Holm Hansen -->US webjournal Atomic Unicorn seeks netart and video art for coming editions -->TAGallery and more deadlines on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?page_id=4 ----------------------------------------------- NetEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net # calls in the external section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=3 # calls in the internal section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=1 ----------------------------------------------- # This newsletter is also released on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=9 # netEX - networked experiences is a free information service powered by [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany # info & contact: info (at) nmartproject.net _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 14:13:33 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:13:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Free Counselling Sessions in Bangalore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Details at http://psychologynews.posterous.com/free-counselling-sessions-in-bangalore If you or someone you know would like to avail of free counselling sessions in B'lore, get in touch with Sangita. Excerpts from her mail: I am training to be a counsellor at Parivarthan which is a counselling, research and training center. I am enrolled in their one year Basic Skills in Counselling programme,since June of 2009. Apart from the stress of performance, career growth and workplace relationships there are also issues like marriage, relationships, loneliness and depression, parenting etc which impact us at an individual level and effect our own productivity. I am here to listen and journey with this individual to find more effective ways of working/living. I hope they will avail of my skills.This is a voluntary service which is not charged and confidentiality is guaranteed and sacrosanct to the relationship . From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 14:16:53 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:46:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Gita Sahgal suspended by Amnesty Intnl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <682390.7067.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Harsh   There are reports that after the Sunday Times article, Gita Sahgal has been suspended by AI.   Given below is the statement reportedly issued by Gita Sahgal.   Gita also happens to be an active member of "Women Against Fundamentalism" http://www.womenagainstfundamentalism.org.uk/index.html     Kshmendra     "Amnesty International and Cageprisoners" Statement by Gita Sahgal 7 February 2010   This morning the Sunday Times published an article about Amnesty International’s association with groups that support the Taliban and promote Islamic Right ideas. In that article, I was quoted as raising concerns about Amnesty’s very high profile associations with Guantanamo-detainee Moazzam Begg. I felt that Amnesty International was risking its reputation by associating itself with Begg, who heads an organization, Cageprisoners, that actively promotes Islamic Right ideas and individuals.   Within a few hours of the article being published, Amnesty had suspended me from my job.   A moment comes, which comes but rarely in history, when a great organisation must ask: if it lies to itself, can it demand the truth of others? For in defending the torture standard, one of the strongest and most embedded in international human rights law, Amnesty International has sanitized the history and politics of the ex-Guantanamo detainee, Moazzam Begg and completely failed to recognize the nature of his organisation Cageprisoners.   The tragedy here is that the necessary defence of the torture standard has been inexcusably allied to the political legitimization of individuals and organisations belonging to the Islamic Right.   I have always opposed the illegal detention and torture of Muslim men at Guantanamo Bay and during the so-called War on Terror. I have been horrified and appalled by the treatment of people like Moazzam Begg and I have personally told him so. I have vocally opposed attempts by governments to justify ‘torture lite’.   The issue is not about Moazzam Begg’s freedom of opinion, nor about his right to propound his views: he already exercises these rights fully as he should. The issue is a fundamental one about the importance of the human rights movement maintaining an objective distance from groups and ideas that are committed to systematic discrimination and fundamentally undermine the universality of human rights. I have raised this issue because of my firm belief in human rights for all.   I sent two memos to my management asking a series of questions about what considerations were given to the nature of the relationship with Moazzam Begg and his organisation, Cageprisoners. I have received no answer to my questions. There has been a history of warnings within Amnesty that it is inadvisable to partner with Begg. Amnesty has created the impression that Begg is not only a victim of human rights violations but a defender of human rights. Many of my highly respected colleagues, each well-regarded in their area of expertise has said so. Each has been set aside.   As a result of my speaking to the Sunday Times, Amnesty International has announced that it has launched an internal inquiry. This is the moment to press for public answers, and to demonstrate that there is already a public demand including from Amnesty International members, to restore the integrity of the organisation and remind it of its fundamental principles.   I have been a human rights campaigner for over three decades, defending the rights of women and ethnic minorities, defending religious freedom and the rights of victims of torture, and campaigning against illegal detention and state repression. I have raised the issue of the association of Amnesty International with groups such as Begg’s consistently within the organisation. I have now been suspended for trying to do my job and staying faithful to Amnesty’s mission to protect and defend human rights universally and impartially.   - http://www.spectator.co.uk/martinbright/5759197/gita-sahgal-a-statement.thtml   - http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/amnesty-reinstate-gita-sahgal.html   - http://womensgrid.freecharity.org.uk/?p=4558     --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Harsh Kapoor wrote: From: Harsh Kapoor Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International in bed with Jihadi types (just like many on the left) To: "sarai list" Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 12:18 AM http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7017810.ece >From The Sunday Times February 7, 2010 Amnesty International is ‘damaged’ by Taliban link An official at the human rights charity deplores its work with a ‘jihadist’ Amnesty International demonstrators wearing boiler suits by Richard Kerbaj A SENIOR official at Amnesty International has accused the charity of putting the human rights of Al-Qaeda terror suspects above those of their victims. Gita Sahgal, head of the gender unit at Amnesty’s international secretariat, believes that collaborating with Moazzam Begg, a former British inmate at Guantanamo Bay, “fundamentally damages” the organisation’s reputation. In an email sent to Amnesty’s top bosses, she suggests the charity has mistakenly allied itself with Begg and his “jihadi” group, Cageprisoners, out of fear of being branded racist and Islamophobic. Sahgal describes Begg as “Britain’s most famous supporter of the Taliban”. He has championed the rights of jailed Al-Qaeda members and hate preachers, including Anwar al-Awlaki, the alleged spiritual mentor of the Christmas Day Detroit plane bomber. Amnesty’s work with Cageprisoners took it to Downing Street last month to demand the closure of Guantanamo Bay. Begg has also embarked on a European tour, hosted by Amnesty, urging countries to offer safe haven to Guantanamo detainees. This is despite concerns about former inmates returning to terrorism. Sahgal, who has researched religious fundamentalism for 20 years, has decided to go public because she feels Amnesty has ignored her warnings for the past two years about the involvement of Begg in the charity’s Counter Terror With Justice campaign. “I believe the campaign fundamentally damages Amnesty International’s integrity and, more importantly, constitutes a threat to human rights,” Sahgal wrote in an email to the organisation’s leaders on January 30. “To be appearing on platforms with Britain’s most famous supporter of the Taliban, whom we treat as a human rights defender, is a gross error of judgment.” Amnesty is the world’s biggest human rights organisation with 2.2m members and a galaxy of celebrity supporters, including Bono, John Cleese, Yoko Ono, Al Pacino and Sinead O’Connor. Its decision to work with Begg poses liberal backers with a moral dilemma and raises questions about the direction in which Amnesty has travelled since it was set up in 1961 to support “prisoners of conscience”. “As a former Guantanamo detainee it was legitimate to hear his experiences, but as a supporter of the Taliban it was absolutely wrong to legitimise him as a partner,” Sahgal told The Sunday Times. Begg, 42, from Birmingham, was held at Guantanamo for three years until 2005 under suspicion of links to Al-Qaeda, which he denies. Prior to his arrest, Begg lived with his family in Kabul and praised the Taliban in his memoirs as “better than anything Afghanistan has had in 20 years”. After his release Begg became the figurehead for Cageprisoners, which describes itself as “a human rights organisation that exists solely to raise awareness of the plight of prisoners ... held as part of the War On Terror”. Among the Muslim inmates it highlights are Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Abu Hamza, the hook-handed cleric facing extradition from Britain to America on terror charges, and Abu Qatada, a preacher described as Osama Bin Laden’s “European ambassador”. Sahgal, 53, is not the only critic of Begg at Amnesty. In 2008 a board member of its US arm opposed Begg’s appearance, via videolink, at its AGM, but was overruled. When Begg appeared at Downing Street last month as part of a group delivering a letter to Gordon Brown calling for the release of the last British resident held at Guantanamo, he was accompanied by Kate Allen, head of Amnesty’s UK section since 2000. Allen is a leftwinger who was the girlfriend of Ken Livingstone, the former mayor of London, for almost 20 years. This weekend Amnesty said it had launched an internal inquiry after Sahgal raised her concerns with bosses, including Allen and Claudio Cordone, the interim secretary-general. Anne Fitzgerald, policy director of Amnesty’s international secretariat, said the charity had formed a relationship with Begg because he was a “compelling speaker” on detention. She said he had been paid expenses for his attendance at its events. Asked if she thought Begg was a human rights advocate, Fitzgerald said: “It’s something you’d have to speak to him about. I don’t have the information to answer that.” Yesterday Begg dismissed Sahgal’s claims as “ridiculous”. He defended his support for the Taliban and the decision by Cageprisoners to highlight the plight of detainees linked to Al-Qaeda: “We need to be engaging with those people who we find most unpalatable. I don’t consider anybody a terrorist until they have been charged and convicted of terrorism.” _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 15:26:12 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:26:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Creating play spaces for children with and without disabilities Message-ID: http://www.kilikili.org/ Kilikili's purpose is to create public play spaces that can be used by all children, with or without disabilities. We see inclusive play spaces as an important step in creating an inclusive society that does not discriminate or exclude on the basis of ability. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 16:26:58 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:26:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why People Don't Empathise/Donate Enough In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excerpts from http://psychologynews.posterous.com/why-people-dont-empathisedonate-enough - If this is the case, Singer asked, why do large numbers of people hesitate to write a check for $200 to a reputable charity that could save the life of a child halfway around the world -- when there are millions of children who need our help? Even when people are absolutely certain their money will not be wasted and will be used to save a child's life, fewer people are willing to write the check than to leap into the pond. Our moral responsibilities feel different in these situations; one feels immediate and visceral, the other distant and abstract. We feel personally responsible for one child, whereas the other is one of millions who need help. Our responsibility feels diffused when it comes to children in distant places -- there are many people who could write that check. But distance and diffusion of responsibility do not explain why we step forward in some cases. The reason human beings seem to care so little about mass suffering and death is precisely because the suffering is happening on a mass scale. The brain is simply not very good at grasping the implications of mass suffering. Journalists sometimes talk about compassion fatigue, the inability of people to respond to suffering when the scale or length of the suffering exceeds some astronomical number. But Slovic's work suggests that compassion fatigue starts when the number of victims rises from one to two. "The feelings of sadness dropped," Slovic said of the volunteers who were told about the two children in need of help. He added, "You can't lock onto two people in need of help as closely as you can lock onto one person. You can't make an emotional connection as strongly to two as to one." From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Feb 8 17:01:19 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:31:19 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?NewMediaFest=272010_-_week_07_-_prev?= =?iso-8859-1?q?iew?= Message-ID: <20100208123120.27836663.D97C8FF4@192.168.0.2> NewMediaFest’2010 _____________________________ Week 07 - 8-14 February 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=475 _____________________________ 1. Feature of the week --> SoundLAB III - sound art //global competition 2005 //Australian soundart curated by Michael Yuen //German soundart by Peter Wolf http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=477 2. Feature of the month February 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=436 On occasion of 65th Return of the Liberation of Auschwitz A Virtual Memorial Foundation launched on (27 January 1945-2010) -SFC - Shoah Film Collection- http://dts.engad.org/sfc-index.html 3. Celebrate! - netart features 2010 10 Years - JavaMuseum - Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art the netart features are released in form of the daily journal - "Celebrate!"--> http://2010.javamuseum.org - this week--> Monday: Reginald Brooks (USA) Tuesday: Gita Hashemi (Iran/CA) Wednesday: Beat Suter (CH) Thursday: Osvaldo Cibils (UY) Friday:KPHB - Philippe Bruneau (F) Saturday: Ian Flitman (UK) Sunday: Katty Vandenberghe (SA) 4. SIP - SoundLAB Interview project- a series of interviews --> http://sip.newmediafest.org/?p=414 --> this week: : Monday: Mira Burt-Wintonick (Canada) Tuesday:Lin Culbertson (UK) Wednesday: Erin Gee (CA) Thursday: Margaret Jameson aka tinydiva (USA) Friday: Matt Mackissak (UK) Saturday: Owen Plotkin (USA) Sunday:Meri Nikula (Finland) 5. VideoChannel Cologne - Ukrainian Video Art - curated by Yarina Butkovska (UA) - features for the next 14 days http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1797 --> this week: Monday Viacheslav. Poliakov Tuesday Oksana Chepelyk Wednesday Olexiy Khoroshko Thursday Kateryna Babkina Friday Mykola Kondratenko Saturday Yuriy Kruchak Sunday Oleg Ushchenko 5. VideoChannel - Found Footage Film Collection http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1275 --> this week: Monday Benjamin Rosenthal (USA) Tuesday Jennifer Schwed (USA) Wednesday Jasper Rigole (Belgium) Thursday Jun Ho Oh (South Korea) Friday Fumiko Matsuyama (Japan) Saturday Borja Alexandre (Spain) Sunday Katrina Inagaki (USA) 6 VideoChannel - Shoah Film Collection http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1641 -> this week: Monday Sean Burn (UK) Tuesday Agricola de Cologne (Germany) Wednesday Yonathan Weinstein (Israel) Thursday Jens Salander & Mikael Strömberg (Sweden) Friday Branko Miliskovic (Serbia) Saturday Daveed Shwartz (Israel) Sunday Heike Liss & Thea Farhadian (USA) 7. CologneOFF IV - features for one day - start 1 February 2010 http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1632 -->this week: Monday Daniel Slåttnes (Norway) Tuesday Grace Schwindt (UK) Wednesday Mikael Prey, (aka Fetish23) (Sweden) Thursday Elisabeth Smolarz, (USA/Germany) Friday Oksana Shatalova, (Kazakhstan) Saturday Mihai Grecu (Romania) Sunday Joshua & Zachary Sandler (USA) --------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________ NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne calls for entries --> for NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?page_id=78 downloads http://2010.newmediafest.org/?page_id=87 newmediafest2010 [at] koeln.de ---------------------------------------------------- Join NewMediaFest'2010 on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=404197070650 ---------------------------------------------------- From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Feb 8 18:03:24 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:03:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Shahzad=92s_Arrest_and_Goebbels=92?= =?windows-1252?q?_Lies_-_JTSA?= Message-ID: Dear All, Many of you may remember the disussion around the so called Batla House 'Encounter' last year. A few days ago, the Special Cell of the Delhi Police claimed to have found one Shahzad, one of the two so called 'fugitives' who escaped. And now they are charging him with the killing of Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma. Incidentally, after he was arrested, one of the accompanying police party, Head Constable Rajbir Singh (apparently one of the people who was present at the scene of the encounter) has subsquently died in an accident, on the way back to Delhi. The plot, as usual, thickens. Below is a commentary on the arrest and detention of 'Shahzad' by the Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Association best Shuddha ---------------- Shahzad’s Arrest and Goebbels’ Lies Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist, believed that a lie repeated several times over would soon acquire the legitimacy of truth. The Delhi Police has surpassed Goebbels’ strategy. By deluging the press and the public with one lie after another, it hopes that the truth will never be extricated. Who killed Inspector Sharma? Shahzad Ahmed (not ‘urf Pappu’ as he has never borne that name), the most recent prize catch of the Delhi Police is being charged with the murder of Inspector Sharma. Till now, we had been told that it were the two slain boys, Atif Ameen and Md. Sajid, whose fire had killed Inspector Sharma. Indeed, the NHRC report attempts to establish this at great length. According to “sources” quoted in the press, Shahzad fired from a .32 revolver (Zee news, Feb 07, TOI 07). Now according to the NHRC report, the cartridge cases recovered from the site of the ‘encounter’ matched the .30 pistols, W2 and W3, which the police claimed were found in flat 108, L-18, Batla House. Two mutilated bullets recovered from the bullet proof jacket of a police man, according to the NHRC were fired from W3. It may be repeated here again that no seizure list was prepared in the presence of any independent witness, as is procedurally required, so the claim that W2 and W3 and the corresponding bullets and cartridge belonged to Atif and Sajid is just that—a claim. No unaccounted for bullets and cartridge cases have been mentioned by either the police or the NHRC. So what happened to the cartridge cases of the .32 pistol used by Shahzad? Did the bullets and cartridge cases disappear in thin air, just as Shahzad and Junaid supposedly did? The Great Escape? According to the police version, reproduced faithfully in the press, Shahzad and Junaid escaped from the building L-18 while the encounter was on. It has been repeatedly pointed out by civil rights activists that the building only has one exit point through the staircase which is covered by a heavy iron grill. In the stories that have appeared in the press and also repeated by the NHRC report, this is sought to be explained by the presence of two separate doors to the flat 108. However, had the NHRC or reporters bothered to inspect the site, it would have been clear that these two gates are adjacent to each other. A police party standing at the landing of the 4th floor facing flat 108 would face both the doors simultaneously as both doors actually open in the same landing. In the bizarre reconstruction of events according to the police, first, Shahzad and Junaid supposedly opened the second door to the landing, where the police party was, and then ran down the stairs screaming that they were residents (TOI report, 05 Feb). Now, according to the statement of Karnail Singh, Joint Commissioner of Police, Special Cell, Delhi there was a “back- up team, headed by ACP Sanjeev Kumar Yadav …which immediately rushed to the flat in order to rescue the team members and apprehend the militants holed inside the flat.”(NHRC report). Now suppose, there were two militants who had fired upon the police and were running down the stairs, surely, they must still have wielded the pistols (.32??), and regardless of their protestations that they were residents, ACP Yadav’s team, which by the police’s own admission rushed upstairs immediately, should have apprehended them, or at least attempted to overpower them. And surely, the crowd of people, which the police claimed had collected around the building, hearing the firing, would have sighted two young men, pistols in hand running down the stairs. But all we have is police claims and custodial confessions of Shahzad (which remember are not admissible in court) that he and Junaid fired and fled the spot miraculously. But wait, it gets more twisted. According to a news report, Shahzad and Junaid, after making good their escape, walked to the bus stop and took a bus to Badarpur. In the evening, Shahzad and Junaid boarded a train to Mumbai without realizing where it was headed…” (Indian Express, Feb 04). Imagine, a fleeing terrorist waiting at the bus stop for the right route number bus to arrive! In other stories, the duo traveled to Aligarh (some say by train, others insist they took a bus) but there is no consensus on their travel itinerary. According to TOI on Feb 05) from Aligarh, the two went to Lucknow and thence to Azamgarh, where Junaid parted ways with Shahzad. In another report in the same paper, this was the route: Aligarh, Bulandshehar, Lucknow, Khalispur, Jaipur, Jodhpur, Mumbai (where the two separated). (TOI, Feb 07) So did they take a train out to Mumbai or a bus (or again train) to Aligarh? At the very least, the Delhi Police must try and be consistent in its leaks to the press. The Pilot Theory Crash lands As early as January 6, there started to appear reports in the television media (Headlines Today/ Aajtak) that a 9/11 type of attack had been planned by the IM to be conducted by Shahzad Ahmad who had ostensibly received a flying license at an institute in Bangalore. This was attributed to information contained in a confidential communiqué of the Intelligence agencies. Following Shahzad’s arrest, there was frenzied reporting about his commercial pilot license. But now it turns out that he had never enrolled in a flying institute. One may not choose to believe Shahzad’s mother when she denies he never received any flying training, but the Uttar Pradesh Addl DG (law and order), Brij Lal also refuted the allegation that Shahzad was a pilot (Mail Today, Feb 06). All reports of the aerial module of IM and Shahzad’s key position in this supposed module are based of course on unnamed sources in the police. Why were the Intelligence agencies so keen to propagate the falsehood of his flying skills? Manisha Sethi, Adil Mehdi, Ahmed Sohaib, Ghazi Shahnawaz, Tanweer Fazal, Arshad Alam, Sanghamitra Misra, Amabarien Al qadar, Haris ul Haq, Azra Razak, Farah Farooqi, Anwar Alam From tasveerghar at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 09:34:31 2010 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:34:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation to workshop on "Icons- Spectacle and Affect" Message-ID: <484c1051002082004w5738a135tdae44608c7cad3ae@mail.gmail.com> "In connection with an international workshop on Icons- Spectacle and Affect, The Transcultural Visuality Learning group at the Cluster of Excellence “Asia and Europe in a Global Context”, University of Heidelberg The Max Planck Insitute Partnergoup at the School of Arts and Aesthetics, JNU and The Max Mueller Bhavan, New Delhi cordially invite you to attend the two lectures by distinguished art historians. Please come and spread the word! (Entry is for free.) Dario Gamboni “Recycling Neolithic Urns and Vinyl Records: Transcultural Aspects of Iconoclash” 17 February 2007, at 7pm, at the Max Mueller Bhawan, 3 Kasturba Gandhi Marg, New Delhi. The Chinese artist Ai Weiwei (b. Beijing 1957) achieved visibility when, having returned to his country after twelve years in the US, he began breaking and recycling Chinese antiquities in the mid-1990s. In 1998, the US artist Dario Robleto (b. San Antonio 1972) started grinding and melting vinyl records and other mass-produced and organic materials to produce sculptures accompanied by detailed listings of their ingredients. While Ai is generally hailed as an iconoclast and Robleto could be defined as an iconophile, both share a crucial yet ambivalent, even at times paradoxical relation to the materials they use. This lecture will examine this relationship and ask what role the transcultural aspects of the two artists’ lives and works have played in their respective contributions to present-day “iconoclash” Dario Gamboni is Professor of the History of Art and Architecture (Modern and Contemporary), University of Geneva and author of The Destruction of Art: Iconoclasm and Vandalism since the French Revolution, and Potential Images: Ambiguity and Indeterminacy in Modern Art. and Tapati Guha Thakurta “Durga Puja Tours and Travels. Vignettes from a Contemporary Urban Festival” 19 February 2010, at 7pm, Max Mueller Bhawan, 3 Kasturba Gandhi Marg, New Delhi. Every autumn season the city of Calcutta undergoes a temporary spectacular visual metamorphosis for the week-long annual celebration of the Durga Puja festival. The city of the festival, the talk will show, becomes a liminal site for popular travel, heritage touring, and art and craft consumption, with implications that take us beyond the micro time and place of the Pujas. The talk’s focus will be on a new genre of 'art' and 'theme' productions that have recently come to dominate the face of this festival and given it the identity of a public art event. It will track the proliferation through different neighbourhoods of the city of broadly three types of tableaux - architectural and archaeological and replicas, craft and folk art villages, and a third type that calls itself 'conceptual' or 'installation art' - to see how the local and the global, the vernacular and the corporate enmesh within these trends. It will also explore the way the praxis of touring and worship have come to coexist within an exhibitionary field that remains constitutively grounded in the performance of the ritual event. Tapati Guha-Thakurta is Professor of History, Centre for Studies in Social Sciences, Calcutta, and is author of The Making of a New 'Indian' Art: Artists, Aesthetics and Nationalism in Bengal, c.1850-1920 and Monuments, Objects, Histories: Institutions of Art in Colonial and Postcolonial India." From tasveerghar at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 12:51:46 2010 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:51:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Invitation to workshop on "Icons- Spectacle and Affect" - a mistake Message-ID: <484c1051002082321j2aa416fbl836d188ab9fbf1b5@mail.gmail.com> Dear friends, There was an error in the programme sent earlier. The first lecture is on 17 February 2010 and not in 2007 as mentioned below. Thanks ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tasveer Ghar Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:34:31 +0530 Subject: Invitation to workshop on "Icons- Spectacle and Affect" To: Sarai reader list "In connection with an international workshop on Icons- Spectacle and Affect, The Transcultural Visuality Learning group at the Cluster of Excellence “Asia and Europe in a Global Context”, University of Heidelberg The Max Planck Insitute Partnergoup at the School of Arts and Aesthetics, JNU and The Max Mueller Bhavan, New Delhi cordially invite you to attend the two lectures by distinguished art historians. Please come and spread the word! (Entry is for free.) Dario Gamboni “Recycling Neolithic Urns and Vinyl Records: Transcultural Aspects of Iconoclash” 17 February 2007, at 7pm, at the Max Mueller Bhawan, 3 Kasturba Gandhi Marg, New Delhi. The Chinese artist Ai Weiwei (b. Beijing 1957) achieved visibility when, having returned to his country after twelve years in the US, he began breaking and recycling Chinese antiquities in the mid-1990s. In 1998, the US artist Dario Robleto (b. San Antonio 1972) started grinding and melting vinyl records and other mass-produced and organic materials to produce sculptures accompanied by detailed listings of their ingredients. While Ai is generally hailed as an iconoclast and Robleto could be defined as an iconophile, both share a crucial yet ambivalent, even at times paradoxical relation to the materials they use. This lecture will examine this relationship and ask what role the transcultural aspects of the two artists’ lives and works have played in their respective contributions to present-day “iconoclash” Dario Gamboni is Professor of the History of Art and Architecture (Modern and Contemporary), University of Geneva and author of The Destruction of Art: Iconoclasm and Vandalism since the French Revolution, and Potential Images: Ambiguity and Indeterminacy in Modern Art. and Tapati Guha Thakurta “Durga Puja Tours and Travels. Vignettes from a Contemporary Urban Festival” 19 February 2010, at 7pm, Max Mueller Bhawan, 3 Kasturba Gandhi Marg, New Delhi. Every autumn season the city of Calcutta undergoes a temporary spectacular visual metamorphosis for the week-long annual celebration of the Durga Puja festival. The city of the festival, the talk will show, becomes a liminal site for popular travel, heritage touring, and art and craft consumption, with implications that take us beyond the micro time and place of the Pujas. The talk’s focus will be on a new genre of 'art' and 'theme' productions that have recently come to dominate the face of this festival and given it the identity of a public art event. It will track the proliferation through different neighbourhoods of the city of broadly three types of tableaux - architectural and archaeological and replicas, craft and folk art villages, and a third type that calls itself 'conceptual' or 'installation art' - to see how the local and the global, the vernacular and the corporate enmesh within these trends. It will also explore the way the praxis of touring and worship have come to coexist within an exhibitionary field that remains constitutively grounded in the performance of the ritual event. Tapati Guha-Thakurta is Professor of History, Centre for Studies in Social Sciences, Calcutta, and is author of The Making of a New 'Indian' Art: Artists, Aesthetics and Nationalism in Bengal, c.1850-1920 and Monuments, Objects, Histories: Institutions of Art in Colonial and Postcolonial India." -- http://www.tasveerghar.net From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 13:06:14 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:06:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Startup Saturday' Talks on Education, Feb 13, Andheri, Bombay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The mailer's at http://psychologynews.posterous.com/startup-saturday-talks-on-education-feb-13-an From sen.jhuma at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 03:00:42 2010 From: sen.jhuma at gmail.com (Jhuma Sen) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:00:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gita Sahgal suspended by Amnesty Intnl In-Reply-To: <682390.7067.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <682390.7067.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85a3156a1002091330x3eb845bn7bdfc53cf3115d96@mail.gmail.com> Stumbled upon this, now. *Amnesty International denies charges levelled by NRI* London: Amnesty International today denied charges levelled against it by its NRI official of putting the human rights of Al-Qaeda terror suspects above those of their victims. "This is not and has never been true. Implicit in the accusation is the view that we should choose those whose rights we promote. We reject this view utterly," the global human rights body said in a release today. Gita Sahgal, head of the gender unit at Amnesty's international secretariat, in an email to the organisation said that collaborating with Moazzam Begg, a former British inmate at Guantanamo Bay, "fundamentally damages" the organisation's reputation and the charity has mistakenly allied itself with Begg and his "jihadi" group, Cageprisoners, out of fear of being branded racist and Islamophobic. "Tomorrow, Moazzam Begg, terror accused released from Guantanamo Bay, will speak alongside Amnesty International, speaking specifically on behalf of those detainees in need of protection in a third country," the statement said. "Today, Amnesty International is being criticised for speaking alongside him and for being 'soft' on the Taliban, when our record is one of unreserved opposition to their abuses over the years," it added. It noted that US and other governments that have violated human rights standards in the name of countering terrorism justify it saying that security can only be protected by violating the rights of others. "Begg is one of the people that the US government defined as 'other'. But there is no place for the 'other' in human rights because to argue that some people are more 'deserving' than others of having their rights protected is to argue that some beings are less than human," it said. PTI http://www.zeenews.com/news602646.html On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Harsh > > There are reports that after the Sunday Times article, Gita Sahgal has been > suspended by AI. > > Given below is the statement reportedly issued by Gita Sahgal. > > Gita also happens to be an active member of "Women Against Fundamentalism" > http://www.womenagainstfundamentalism.org.uk/index.html > > > Kshmendra > > > "Amnesty International and Cageprisoners" > > Statement by Gita Sahgal > 7 February 2010 > > This morning the Sunday Times published an article about Amnesty > International’s association with groups that support the Taliban and promote > Islamic Right ideas. In that article, I was quoted as raising concerns about > Amnesty’s very high profile associations with Guantanamo-detainee Moazzam > Begg. I felt that Amnesty International was risking its reputation by > associating itself with Begg, who heads an organization, Cageprisoners, that > actively promotes Islamic Right ideas and individuals. > > > Within a few hours of the article being published, Amnesty had suspended me > from my job. > > > A moment comes, which comes but rarely in history, when a great > organisation must ask: if it lies to itself, can it demand the truth of > others? For in defending the torture standard, one of the strongest and most > embedded in international human rights law, Amnesty International has > sanitized the history and politics of the ex-Guantanamo detainee, Moazzam > Begg and completely failed to recognize the nature of his organisation > Cageprisoners. > > > The tragedy here is that the necessary defence of the torture standard has > been inexcusably allied to the political legitimization of individuals and > organisations belonging to the Islamic Right. > > > I have always opposed the illegal detention and torture of Muslim men at > Guantanamo Bay and during the so-called War on Terror. I have been horrified > and appalled by the treatment of people like Moazzam Begg and I have > personally told him so. I have vocally opposed attempts by governments to > justify ‘torture lite’. > > > The issue is not about Moazzam Begg’s freedom of opinion, nor about his > right to propound his views: he already exercises these rights fully as he > should. The issue is a fundamental one about the importance of the human > rights movement maintaining an objective distance from groups and ideas that > are committed to systematic discrimination and fundamentally undermine the > universality of human rights. I have raised this issue because of my firm > belief in human rights for all. > > > I sent two memos to my management asking a series of questions about what > considerations were given to the nature of the relationship with Moazzam > Begg and his organisation, Cageprisoners. I have received no answer to my > questions. There has been a history of warnings within Amnesty that it is > inadvisable to partner with Begg. Amnesty has created the impression that > Begg is not only a victim of human rights violations but a defender of human > rights. Many of my highly respected colleagues, each well-regarded in their > area of expertise has said so. Each has been set aside. > > > As a result of my speaking to the Sunday Times, Amnesty International has > announced that it has launched an internal inquiry. This is the moment to > press for public answers, and to demonstrate that there is already a public > demand including from Amnesty International members, to restore the > integrity of the organisation and remind it of its fundamental principles. > > > I have been a human rights campaigner for over three decades, defending the > rights of women and ethnic minorities, defending religious freedom and the > rights of victims of torture, and campaigning against illegal detention and > state repression. I have raised the issue of the association of Amnesty > International with groups such as Begg’s consistently within the > organisation. I have now been suspended for trying to do my job and staying > faithful to Amnesty’s mission to protect and defend human rights universally > and impartially. > > - > http://www.spectator.co.uk/martinbright/5759197/gita-sahgal-a-statement.thtml > > - > http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/amnesty-reinstate-gita-sahgal.html > > - http://womensgrid.freecharity.org.uk/?p=4558 > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Harsh Kapoor wrote: > > > From: Harsh Kapoor > Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International in bed with Jihadi types (just > like many on the left) > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 12:18 AM > > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7017810.ece > > > From The Sunday Times > February 7, 2010 > > Amnesty International is ‘damaged’ by Taliban link > An official at the human rights charity deplores its work with a ‘jihadist’ > Amnesty International demonstrators wearing boiler suits > > by Richard Kerbaj > > A SENIOR official at Amnesty International has accused the charity of > putting the human rights of Al-Qaeda terror suspects above those of > their victims. > > Gita Sahgal, head of the gender unit at Amnesty’s international > secretariat, believes that collaborating with Moazzam Begg, a former > British inmate at Guantanamo Bay, “fundamentally damages” the > organisation’s reputation. > > In an email sent to Amnesty’s top bosses, she suggests the charity has > mistakenly allied itself with Begg and his “jihadi” group, > Cageprisoners, out of fear of being branded racist and Islamophobic. > > Sahgal describes Begg as “Britain’s most famous supporter of the > Taliban”. He has championed the rights of jailed Al-Qaeda members and > hate preachers, including Anwar al-Awlaki, the alleged spiritual > mentor of the Christmas Day Detroit plane bomber. > > Amnesty’s work with Cageprisoners took it to Downing Street last month > to demand the closure of Guantanamo Bay. Begg has also embarked on a > European tour, hosted by Amnesty, urging countries to offer safe haven > to Guantanamo detainees. This is despite concerns about former inmates > returning to terrorism. > > Sahgal, who has researched religious fundamentalism for 20 years, has > decided to go public because she feels Amnesty has ignored her > warnings for the past two years about the involvement of Begg in the > charity’s Counter Terror With Justice campaign. > > “I believe the campaign fundamentally damages Amnesty International’s > integrity and, more importantly, constitutes a threat to human > rights,” Sahgal wrote in an email to the organisation’s leaders on > January 30. “To be appearing on platforms with Britain’s most famous > supporter of the Taliban, whom we treat as a human rights defender, is > a gross error of judgment.” > > Amnesty is the world’s biggest human rights organisation with 2.2m > members and a galaxy of celebrity supporters, including Bono, John > Cleese, Yoko Ono, Al Pacino and Sinead O’Connor. Its decision to work > with Begg poses liberal backers with a moral dilemma and raises > questions about the direction in which Amnesty has travelled since it > was set up in 1961 to support “prisoners of conscience”. > > “As a former Guantanamo detainee it was legitimate to hear his > experiences, but as a supporter of the Taliban it was absolutely wrong > to legitimise him as a partner,” Sahgal told The Sunday Times. > > Begg, 42, from Birmingham, was held at Guantanamo for three years > until 2005 under suspicion of links to Al-Qaeda, which he denies. > Prior to his arrest, Begg lived with his family in Kabul and praised > the Taliban in his memoirs as “better than anything Afghanistan has > had in 20 years”. After his release Begg became the figurehead for > Cageprisoners, which describes itself as “a human rights organisation > that exists solely to raise awareness of the plight of prisoners ... > held as part of the War On Terror”. > > Among the Muslim inmates it highlights are Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, > alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Abu Hamza, the hook-handed > cleric facing extradition from Britain to America on terror charges, > and Abu Qatada, a preacher described as Osama Bin Laden’s “European > ambassador”. > > Sahgal, 53, is not the only critic of Begg at Amnesty. In 2008 a board > member of its US arm opposed Begg’s appearance, via videolink, at its > AGM, but was overruled. > > When Begg appeared at Downing Street last month as part of a group > delivering a letter to Gordon Brown calling for the release of the > last British resident held at Guantanamo, he was accompanied by Kate > Allen, head of Amnesty’s UK section since 2000. Allen is a leftwinger > who was the girlfriend of Ken Livingstone, the former mayor of London, > for almost 20 years. > > This weekend Amnesty said it had launched an internal inquiry after > Sahgal raised her concerns with bosses, including Allen and Claudio > Cordone, the interim secretary-general. > > Anne Fitzgerald, policy director of Amnesty’s international > secretariat, said the charity had formed a relationship with Begg > because he was a “compelling speaker” on detention. She said he had > been paid expenses for his attendance at its events. > > Asked if she thought Begg was a human rights advocate, Fitzgerald > said: “It’s something you’d have to speak to him about. I don’t have > the information to answer that.” > > Yesterday Begg dismissed Sahgal’s claims as “ridiculous”. He defended > his support for the Taliban and the decision by Cageprisoners to > highlight the plight of detainees linked to Al-Qaeda: “We need to be > engaging with those people who we find most unpalatable. I don’t > consider anybody a terrorist until they have been charged and > convicted of terrorism.” > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 10 03:04:52 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:34:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex Message-ID: <24180578.1265751292773.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> reasonably interesting article Paul The Terror-Industrial Complex http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror-industrial_complex_20100208/ Truthdig Posted on Feb 8, 2010 By Chris Hedges The conviction of the Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia Siddiqui in New York last week of trying to kill American military officers and FBI agents illustrates that the greatest danger to our security comes not from al-Qaida but the thousands of shadowy mercenaries, kidnappers, killers and torturers our government employs around the globe. The bizarre story surrounding Siddiqui, 37, who received an undergraduate degree from MIT and a doctorate in neuroscience from Brandeis University, often defies belief. Siddiqui, who could spend 50 years in prison on seven charges when she is sentenced in May, was by her own account abducted in 2003 from her hometown of Karachi, Pakistan, with her three children--two of whom remain missing--and spirited to a secret U.S. prison where she was allegedly tortured and mistreated for five years. The American government has no comment, either about the alleged clandestine detention or the missing children. Siddiqui was discovered in 2008 disoriented and apparently aggressive and hostile, in Ghazni, Afghanistan, with her oldest son. She allegedly was carrying plans to make explosives, lists of New York landmarks and notes referring to "mass-casualty attacks." But despite these claims the government prosecutors chose not to charge her with terrorism or links to al-Qaida--the reason for her original appearance on the FBI's most-wanted list six years ago. Her supporters suggest that the papers she allegedly had in her possession when she was found in Afghanistan, rather than detail coherent plans for terrorist attacks, expose her severe mental deterioration, perhaps the result of years of imprisonment and abuse. This argument was bolstered by some of the pages of the documents shown briefly to the court, including a crude sketch of a gun that was described as a "match gun" that operates by lighting a match. "Justice was not served," Tina Foster, executive director of the International Justice Network and the spokesperson for Aafia Siddiqui's family, told me. "The U.S. government made a decision to label this woman a terrorist, but instead of putting her on trial for the alleged terrorist activity she was put on trial for something else. They tried to convict her of that something else, not with evidence, but because she was a terrorist. She was selectively prosecuted for something that would allow them to only tell their side of the story." The government built its entire case instead around disputed events in the 300-square-foot room of the Ghazni police station. It insisted that on July 18, 2008, the diminutive Siddiqui, who had been arrested by local Afghan police the day before, seized an M4 assault rifle that was left unattended and fired at American military and FBI agents. None of the Americans were injured. Siddiqui, however, was gravely wounded, shot twice in the stomach. No one, other than Siddiqui, has attempted to explain where she was for five years after she vanished in 2003. No one seems to be able to explain why a disoriented Pakistani woman and her son, an American citizen, neither of whom spoke Dari, were discovered by local residents wandering in a public square in Ghazni, where an eyewitness told Harpers Magazine the distraught Siddiqui "was attacking everyone who got close to her." Had Siddiqui, after years of imprisonment and torture, perhaps been at the U.S. detention center in Bagram and then dumped with one of her three children in Ghazi? And where are the other two children, one of whom also is an American citizen? Her arrest in Ghazi saw, according to the official complaint, a U.S. Army captain and a warrant officer, two FBI agents and two military interpreters arrive to question Siddiqui at the police headquarters. The Americans and their interpreters were shown to a meeting room that was partitioned by a yellow curtain. "None of the United States personnel were aware," the complaint states, "that Siddiqui was being held, unsecured, behind the curtain." The group sat down to talk and "the Warrant Officer placed his United States Army M-4 rifle on the floor to his right next to the curtain, near his right foot." Siddiqui allegedly reached from behind the curtain and pulled the three-foot rifle to her side. She unlatched the safety. She pulled the curtain "slightly back" and pointed the gun directly at the head of the captain. One of the interpreters saw her. He lunged for the gun. Siddiqui shouted, "Get the fuck out of here!" and fired twice. She hit no one. As the interpreter wrestled her to the ground, the warrant officer drew his sidearm and fired "approximately two rounds" into Siddiqui's abdomen. She collapsed, still struggling, and then fell unconscious. But in an article written by Petra Bartosiewicz in the November 2009 Harper's Magazine, authorities in Afghanistan described a series of events at odds with the official version. The governor of Ghazni province, Usman Usmani, told a local reporter who was hired by Bartosiewicz that the U.S. team had "demanded to take over custody" of Siddiqui. The governor refused. He could not release Siddiqui, he explained, until officials from the counterterrorism department in Kabul arrived to investigate. He proposed a compromise: The U.S. team could interview Siddiqui, but she would remain at the station. In a Reuters interview, however, a "senior Ghazni police officer" suggested that the compromise did not hold. The U.S. team arrived at the police station, he said, and demanded custody of Siddiqui. The Afghan officers refused, and the U.S. team proceeded to disarm them. Then, for reasons unexplained, Siddiqui herself somehow entered the scene. The U.S. team, "thinking that she had explosives and would attack them as a suicide bomber, shot her and took her." Siddiqui told a delegation of Pakistani senators who went to Texas to visit her in prison a few months after her arrest that she never touched anyone's gun, nor did she shout at anyone or make any threats. She simply stood up to see who was on the other side of the curtain and startled the soldiers. One of them shouted, "She is loose," and then someone shot her. When she regained consciousness she heard someone else say, "We could lose our jobs." Siddiqui's defense team pointed out that there was an absence of bullets, casings or residue from the M4, all of which suggested it had not been fired. They played a video to show that two holes in a wall supposedly caused by the M4 had been there before July 18. They also highlighted inconsistencies in the testimony from the nine government witnesses, who at times gave conflicting accounts of how many people were in the room, where they were sitting or standing and how many shots were fired. Siddiqui, who took the stand during the trial against the advice of her defense team, called the report that she had fired the unattended M4 assault rifle at the Americans "the biggest lie." She said she had been trying to flee the police station because she feared being tortured. Siddiqui, whose mental stability often appeared to be in question during the trial, was ejected several times from the Manhattan courtroom for erratic behavior and outbursts. "It is difficult to get a fair trial in this country if the government wants to accuse you of terrorism," said Foster. "It is difficult to get a fair trial on any types of charges. The government is allowed to tell the jury you are a terrorist before you have to put on any evidence. The fear factor that has emerged since 9/11 has permeated into the U.S. court system in a profoundly disturbing way. It embraces the idea that we can compromise core principles, for example the presumption of innocence, based on perceived threats that may or may not come to light. We, as a society, have chosen to cave on fear." I spent more than a year covering al-Qaida for The New York Times in Europe and the Middle East. The threat posed by Islamic extremists, while real, is also wildly overblown, used to foster a climate of fear and political passivity, as well as pump billions of dollars into the hands of the military, private contractors, intelligence agencies and repressive client governments including that of Pakistan. The leader of one FBI counterterrorism squad told The New York Times that of the 5,500 terrorism-related leads its 21 agents had pursued over the past five years, just 5 percent were credible and not one had foiled an actual terrorist plot. These statistics strike me as emblematic of the entire war on terror. Terrorism, however, is a very good business. The number of extremists who are planning to carry out terrorist attacks is minuscule, but there are vast departments and legions of ambitious intelligence and military officers who desperately need to strike a tangible blow against terrorism, real or imagined, to promote their careers as well as justify obscene expenditures and a flagrant abuse of power. All this will not make us safer. It will not protect us from terrorist strikes. The more we dispatch brutal forms of power to the Islamic world the more enraged Muslims and terrorists we propel into the ranks of those who oppose us. The same perverted logic saw the Argentine military, when I lived in Buenos Aires, "disappear" 30,000 of the nation's citizens, the vast majority of whom were innocent. Such logic also fed the drive to root out terrorists in El Salvador, where, when I arrived in 1983, the death squads were killing between 800 and 1,000 people a month. Once you build secret archipelagos of prisons, once you commit huge sums of money and invest your political capital in a ruthless war against subversion, once you empower a network of clandestine killers, operatives and torturers, you fuel the very insecurity and violence you seek to contain. I do not know whether Siddiqui is innocent or guilty. But I do know that permitting jailers, spies, kidnappers and assassins to operate outside of the rule of law contaminates us with our own bile. Siddiqui is one victim. There are thousands more we do not see. These abuses, justified by the war on terror, have created a system of internal and external state terrorism that is far more dangerous to our security and democracy than the threat posed by Islamic radicals. AP / Fareed Khan Mohammad Ahmed, son of Aafia Siddiqui, takes part in a demonstration arranged by Human Rights Network. A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion. Editor, Robert Scheer. Publisher, Zuade Kaufman. Copyright (c) 2010 Truthdig, L.L.C. All rights reserved. Web site development by Hop Studios | Hosted by NEXCESS.NET From aiindex at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 03:08:56 2010 From: aiindex at gmail.com (Harsh Kapoor) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:08:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gita Sahgal suspended by Amnesty Intnl In-Reply-To: <85a3156a1002091330x3eb845bn7bdfc53cf3115d96@mail.gmail.com> References: <682390.7067.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <85a3156a1002091330x3eb845bn7bdfc53cf3115d96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The Guardian: Double standards on human rights - Rahila Gupta Where does Amnesty International stand on women's rights after suspending Gita Sahgal for criticising links with Moazzam Begg? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/09/amnesty-sahgal-rights-row For more material visit: Also at: http://www.human-rights-for-all.org/ On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Jhuma Sen wrote: > Stumbled upon this, now. > > *Amnesty International denies charges levelled by NRI* > > London: Amnesty International today denied charges levelled against it by > its NRI official of putting the human rights of Al-Qaeda terror suspects > above those of their victims. > > "This is not and has never been true. Implicit in the accusation is the > view that we should choose those whose rights we promote. We reject this > view utterly," the global human rights body said in a release today. > > Gita Sahgal, head of the gender unit at Amnesty's international > secretariat, in an email to the organisation said that collaborating with > Moazzam Begg, a former British inmate at Guantanamo Bay, "fundamentally > damages" the organisation's reputation and the charity has mistakenly allied > itself with Begg and his "jihadi" group, Cageprisoners, out of fear of being > branded racist and Islamophobic. > > "Tomorrow, Moazzam Begg, terror accused released from Guantanamo Bay, will > speak alongside Amnesty International, speaking specifically on behalf of > those detainees in need of protection in a third country," the statement > said. > > "Today, Amnesty International is being criticised for speaking alongside > him and for being 'soft' on the Taliban, when our record is one of > unreserved opposition to their abuses over the years," it added. > > It noted that US and other governments that have violated human rights > standards in the name of countering terrorism justify it saying that > security can only be protected by violating the rights of others. > > "Begg is one of the people that the US government defined as 'other'. But > there is no place for the 'other' in human rights because to argue that some > people are more 'deserving' than others of having their rights protected is > to argue that some beings are less than human," it said. > > PTI > > > http://www.zeenews.com/news602646.html > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > >> Dear Harsh >> >> There are reports that after the Sunday Times article, Gita Sahgal has >> been suspended by AI. >> >> Given below is the statement reportedly issued by Gita Sahgal. >> >> Gita also happens to be an active member of "Women Against Fundamentalism" >> http://www.womenagainstfundamentalism.org.uk/index.html >> >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> "Amnesty International and Cageprisoners" >> >> Statement by Gita Sahgal >> 7 February 2010 >> >> This morning the Sunday Times published an article about Amnesty >> International’s association with groups that support the Taliban and promote >> Islamic Right ideas. In that article, I was quoted as raising concerns about >> Amnesty’s very high profile associations with Guantanamo-detainee Moazzam >> Begg. I felt that Amnesty International was risking its reputation by >> associating itself with Begg, who heads an organization, Cageprisoners, that >> actively promotes Islamic Right ideas and individuals. >> >> >> Within a few hours of the article being published, Amnesty had suspended >> me from my job. >> >> >> A moment comes, which comes but rarely in history, when a great >> organisation must ask: if it lies to itself, can it demand the truth of >> others? For in defending the torture standard, one of the strongest and most >> embedded in international human rights law, Amnesty International has >> sanitized the history and politics of the ex-Guantanamo detainee, Moazzam >> Begg and completely failed to recognize the nature of his organisation >> Cageprisoners. >> >> >> The tragedy here is that the necessary defence of the torture standard has >> been inexcusably allied to the political legitimization of individuals and >> organisations belonging to the Islamic Right. >> >> >> I have always opposed the illegal detention and torture of Muslim men at >> Guantanamo Bay and during the so-called War on Terror. I have been horrified >> and appalled by the treatment of people like Moazzam Begg and I have >> personally told him so. I have vocally opposed attempts by governments to >> justify ‘torture lite’. >> >> >> The issue is not about Moazzam Begg’s freedom of opinion, nor about his >> right to propound his views: he already exercises these rights fully as he >> should. The issue is a fundamental one about the importance of the human >> rights movement maintaining an objective distance from groups and ideas that >> are committed to systematic discrimination and fundamentally undermine the >> universality of human rights. I have raised this issue because of my firm >> belief in human rights for all. >> >> >> I sent two memos to my management asking a series of questions about what >> considerations were given to the nature of the relationship with Moazzam >> Begg and his organisation, Cageprisoners. I have received no answer to my >> questions. There has been a history of warnings within Amnesty that it is >> inadvisable to partner with Begg. Amnesty has created the impression that >> Begg is not only a victim of human rights violations but a defender of human >> rights. Many of my highly respected colleagues, each well-regarded in their >> area of expertise has said so. Each has been set aside. >> >> >> As a result of my speaking to the Sunday Times, Amnesty International has >> announced that it has launched an internal inquiry. This is the moment to >> press for public answers, and to demonstrate that there is already a public >> demand including from Amnesty International members, to restore the >> integrity of the organisation and remind it of its fundamental principles. >> >> >> I have been a human rights campaigner for over three decades, defending >> the rights of women and ethnic minorities, defending religious freedom and >> the rights of victims of torture, and campaigning against illegal detention >> and state repression. I have raised the issue of the association of Amnesty >> International with groups such as Begg’s consistently within the >> organisation. I have now been suspended for trying to do my job and staying >> faithful to Amnesty’s mission to protect and defend human rights universally >> and impartially. >> >> - >> http://www.spectator.co.uk/martinbright/5759197/gita-sahgal-a-statement.thtml >> >> - >> http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/amnesty-reinstate-gita-sahgal.html >> >> - http://womensgrid.freecharity.org.uk/?p=4558 >> >> >> --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Harsh Kapoor wrote: >> >> >> From: Harsh Kapoor >> Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International in bed with Jihadi types >> (just like many on the left) >> To: "sarai list" >> Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 12:18 AM >> >> >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7017810.ece >> >> >> From The Sunday Times >> February 7, 2010 >> >> Amnesty International is ‘damaged’ by Taliban link >> An official at the human rights charity deplores its work with a >> ‘jihadist’ >> Amnesty International demonstrators wearing boiler suits >> >> by Richard Kerbaj >> >> A SENIOR official at Amnesty International has accused the charity of >> putting the human rights of Al-Qaeda terror suspects above those of >> their victims. >> >> Gita Sahgal, head of the gender unit at Amnesty’s international >> secretariat, believes that collaborating with Moazzam Begg, a former >> British inmate at Guantanamo Bay, “fundamentally damages” the >> organisation’s reputation. >> >> In an email sent to Amnesty’s top bosses, she suggests the charity has >> mistakenly allied itself with Begg and his “jihadi” group, >> Cageprisoners, out of fear of being branded racist and Islamophobic. >> >> Sahgal describes Begg as “Britain’s most famous supporter of the >> Taliban”. He has championed the rights of jailed Al-Qaeda members and >> hate preachers, including Anwar al-Awlaki, the alleged spiritual >> mentor of the Christmas Day Detroit plane bomber. >> >> Amnesty’s work with Cageprisoners took it to Downing Street last month >> to demand the closure of Guantanamo Bay. Begg has also embarked on a >> European tour, hosted by Amnesty, urging countries to offer safe haven >> to Guantanamo detainees. This is despite concerns about former inmates >> returning to terrorism. >> >> Sahgal, who has researched religious fundamentalism for 20 years, has >> decided to go public because she feels Amnesty has ignored her >> warnings for the past two years about the involvement of Begg in the >> charity’s Counter Terror With Justice campaign. >> >> “I believe the campaign fundamentally damages Amnesty International’s >> integrity and, more importantly, constitutes a threat to human >> rights,” Sahgal wrote in an email to the organisation’s leaders on >> January 30. “To be appearing on platforms with Britain’s most famous >> supporter of the Taliban, whom we treat as a human rights defender, is >> a gross error of judgment.” >> >> Amnesty is the world’s biggest human rights organisation with 2.2m >> members and a galaxy of celebrity supporters, including Bono, John >> Cleese, Yoko Ono, Al Pacino and Sinead O’Connor. Its decision to work >> with Begg poses liberal backers with a moral dilemma and raises >> questions about the direction in which Amnesty has travelled since it >> was set up in 1961 to support “prisoners of conscience”. >> >> “As a former Guantanamo detainee it was legitimate to hear his >> experiences, but as a supporter of the Taliban it was absolutely wrong >> to legitimise him as a partner,” Sahgal told The Sunday Times. >> >> Begg, 42, from Birmingham, was held at Guantanamo for three years >> until 2005 under suspicion of links to Al-Qaeda, which he denies. >> Prior to his arrest, Begg lived with his family in Kabul and praised >> the Taliban in his memoirs as “better than anything Afghanistan has >> had in 20 years”. After his release Begg became the figurehead for >> Cageprisoners, which describes itself as “a human rights organisation >> that exists solely to raise awareness of the plight of prisoners ... >> held as part of the War On Terror”. >> >> Among the Muslim inmates it highlights are Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, >> alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Abu Hamza, the hook-handed >> cleric facing extradition from Britain to America on terror charges, >> and Abu Qatada, a preacher described as Osama Bin Laden’s “European >> ambassador”. >> >> Sahgal, 53, is not the only critic of Begg at Amnesty. In 2008 a board >> member of its US arm opposed Begg’s appearance, via videolink, at its >> AGM, but was overruled. >> >> When Begg appeared at Downing Street last month as part of a group >> delivering a letter to Gordon Brown calling for the release of the >> last British resident held at Guantanamo, he was accompanied by Kate >> Allen, head of Amnesty’s UK section since 2000. Allen is a leftwinger >> who was the girlfriend of Ken Livingstone, the former mayor of London, >> for almost 20 years. >> >> This weekend Amnesty said it had launched an internal inquiry after >> Sahgal raised her concerns with bosses, including Allen and Claudio >> Cordone, the interim secretary-general. >> >> Anne Fitzgerald, policy director of Amnesty’s international >> secretariat, said the charity had formed a relationship with Begg >> because he was a “compelling speaker” on detention. She said he had >> been paid expenses for his attendance at its events. >> >> Asked if she thought Begg was a human rights advocate, Fitzgerald >> said: “It’s something you’d have to speak to him about. I don’t have >> the information to answer that.” >> >> Yesterday Begg dismissed Sahgal’s claims as “ridiculous”. He defended >> his support for the Taliban and the decision by Cageprisoners to >> highlight the plight of detainees linked to Al-Qaeda: “We need to be >> engaging with those people who we find most unpalatable. I don’t >> consider anybody a terrorist until they have been charged and >> convicted of terrorism.” >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 13:16:13 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:16:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sharing information on events with a wider audience through Karmayog... Message-ID: Trying again since the mail didn't go through last time. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chandni Parekh Date: 26 January 2010 13:37 Subject: Sharing information on events with a wider audience through Karmayog To: Sarai List Hey all, I've been crossposting some event mailers I came across on this e-group to the Karmayog e-group for some time now. (Because [among a passel of reasons] I like connecting people with information and experiences that might be relevant or interesting for them.) This mail is to let you know that I'll no longer be forwarding such mails since Karmayog has a new (more cumbersome for me) format (post details on the website as against simply email) for such mails now. So, if you want more people to know about the event you're organising or supporting, read the mail below. FYI, Karmayog e-group mails apparently go to 62,000 email IDs. Best, Chandni PS: For info on what Karmayog does, visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/karmayog/message/58628 ----- Original Message ----- *From:* karmayog *To:* karmayog at yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, January 24, 2010 *Subject:* karmayog events section - live I have got the initial 'beta' version of karmayog events working on http://www.karmayog.in/events. - The default view for the users is the 'events-calendar' view which shows the monthly calendar and its related events. - There is a 'Post An Event' link at the top which will allow all users to post any event that is of interest. - The event creation form is simple. It also has the state/city drop-down and allows the user to create a new city - The Rick Text Box is there to enter details. - 3 files can be uploaded. A file description can also be added. Once an event is posted, it will automatically get added to the events calendar view. You can also click on the event in the calendar and it will take you to the event description. - I have also added a description page called 'About Karmayog Events' to explain this initiative. - There is also a 'Who's online' at the bottom which shows how many users are online. As of now we have a fully functional events feature where events can be added by users and viewed in the calendar. - ronak [To all: All event announcements have to be posted here henceforth. Thank you for your participation and support. The link is directly accessible from the home page of www.karmayog.org Rgds, Vinay ] From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 15:52:11 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:22:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex In-Reply-To: <24180578.1265751292773.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <249568.32717.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In my opinion, the jury-of-ordinary-citizens followed in the USA is a stupid system and only idiots would give it any kind of credible possibility that it can consistently deliver just judgements. Many factors can and will cloud competent and diligent evaluation of the evidence/arguments presented in court.   Is Dr Aafia's case yet another one of "Going Muslim" or is it yet another case of incarceration of innocents by USA/Pakistan/Afghanistan in pursuance of 'War on Terror'.   Either way it is extremely sad.   In what should be an indication of the mental state of Dr Aafia it has been reported that she wanted a meeting with President Obama and had the following statements to make on 9/11:   - "The President has to talk to me and this is the last opportunity I have once I'm sentenced … God, it's important, and please don't ignore me for the sake of God and this beautiful country."   - "I have information about attacks, more than 9/11, I want to help the president to end this group, to finish them,"   - "They are a domestic, US group, they are not Muslims. I am not lying, I swear"   http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Trial-Begins-for-Reputed-al-Qaida-Supporter--82049022.html   http://www.businessrecorder.com.pk/index.php?id=1010805&currPageNo=4&query=&search=&term=&supDate=       Kshmendra     --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: From: Paul D. Miller Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex To: "sarai" Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:04 AM reasonably interesting article Paul The Terror-Industrial Complex http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror-industrial_complex_20100208/ Truthdig Posted on Feb 8, 2010 By Chris Hedges The conviction of the Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia Siddiqui in New York last week of trying to kill American military officers and FBI agents illustrates that the greatest danger to our security comes not from al-Qaida but the thousands of shadowy mercenaries, kidnappers, killers and torturers our government employs around the globe. The bizarre story surrounding Siddiqui, 37, who received an undergraduate degree from MIT and a doctorate in neuroscience from Brandeis University, often defies belief. Siddiqui, who could spend 50 years in prison on seven charges when she is sentenced in May, was by her own account abducted in 2003 from her hometown of Karachi, Pakistan, with her three children--two of whom remain missing--and spirited to a secret U.S. prison where she was allegedly tortured and mistreated for five years. The American government has no comment, either about the alleged clandestine detention or the missing children. Siddiqui was discovered in 2008 disoriented and apparently aggressive and hostile, in Ghazni, Afghanistan, with her oldest son. She allegedly was carrying plans to make explosives, lists of New York landmarks and notes referring to "mass-casualty attacks." But despite these claims the government prosecutors chose not to charge her with terrorism or links to al-Qaida--the reason for her original appearance on the FBI's most-wanted list six years ago. Her supporters suggest that the papers she allegedly had in her possession when she was found in Afghanistan, rather than detail coherent plans for terrorist attacks, expose her severe mental deterioration, perhaps the result of years of imprisonment and abuse. This argument was bolstered by some of the pages of the documents shown briefly to the court, including a crude sketch of a gun that was described as a "match gun" that operates by lighting a match. "Justice was not served," Tina Foster, executive director of the International Justice Network and the spokesperson for Aafia Siddiqui's family, told me. "The U.S. government made a decision to label this woman a terrorist, but instead of putting her on trial for the alleged terrorist activity she was put on trial for something else. They tried to convict her of that something else, not with evidence, but because she was a terrorist. She was selectively prosecuted for something that would allow them to only tell their side of the story." The government built its entire case instead around disputed events in the 300-square-foot room of the Ghazni police station. It insisted that on July 18, 2008, the diminutive Siddiqui, who had been arrested by local Afghan police the day before, seized an M4 assault rifle that was left unattended and fired at American military and FBI agents. None of the Americans were injured. Siddiqui, however, was gravely wounded, shot twice in the stomach. No one, other than Siddiqui, has attempted to explain where she was for five years after she vanished in 2003. No one seems to be able to explain why a disoriented Pakistani woman and her son, an American citizen, neither of whom spoke Dari, were discovered by local residents wandering in a public square in Ghazni, where an eyewitness told Harpers Magazine the distraught Siddiqui "was attacking everyone who got close to her." Had Siddiqui, after years of imprisonment and torture, perhaps been at the U.S. detention center in Bagram and then dumped with one of her three children in Ghazi? And where are the other two children, one of whom also is an American citizen? Her arrest in Ghazi saw, according to the official complaint, a U.S. Army captain and a warrant officer, two FBI agents and two military interpreters arrive to question Siddiqui at the police headquarters. The Americans and their interpreters were shown to a meeting room that was partitioned by a yellow curtain. "None of the United States personnel were aware," the complaint states, "that Siddiqui was being held, unsecured, behind the curtain." The group sat down to talk and "the Warrant Officer placed his United States Army M-4 rifle on the floor to his right next to the curtain, near his right foot." Siddiqui allegedly reached from behind the curtain and pulled the three-foot rifle to her side. She unlatched the safety. She pulled the curtain "slightly back" and pointed the gun directly at the head of the captain. One of the interpreters saw her. He lunged for the gun. Siddiqui shouted, "Get the fuck out of here!" and fired twice. She hit no one. As the interpreter wrestled her to the ground, the warrant officer drew his sidearm and fired "approximately two rounds" into Siddiqui's abdomen. She collapsed, still struggling, and then fell unconscious. But in an article written by Petra Bartosiewicz in the November 2009 Harper's Magazine, authorities in Afghanistan described a series of events at odds with the official version. The governor of Ghazni province, Usman Usmani, told a local reporter who was hired by Bartosiewicz that the U.S. team had "demanded to take over custody" of Siddiqui. The governor refused. He could not release Siddiqui, he explained, until officials from the counterterrorism department in Kabul arrived to investigate. He proposed a compromise: The U.S. team could interview Siddiqui, but she would remain at the station. In a Reuters interview, however, a "senior Ghazni police officer" suggested that the compromise did not hold. The U.S. team arrived at the police station, he said, and demanded custody of Siddiqui. The Afghan officers refused, and the U.S. team proceeded to disarm them. Then, for reasons unexplained, Siddiqui herself somehow entered the scene. The U.S. team, "thinking that she had explosives and would attack them as a suicide bomber, shot her and took her." Siddiqui told a delegation of Pakistani senators who went to Texas to visit her in prison a few months after her arrest that she never touched anyone's gun, nor did she shout at anyone or make any threats. She simply stood up to see who was on the other side of the curtain and startled the soldiers. One of them shouted, "She is loose," and then someone shot her. When she regained consciousness she heard someone else say, "We could lose our jobs." Siddiqui's defense team pointed out that there was an absence of bullets, casings or residue from the M4, all of which suggested it had not been fired. They played a video to show that two holes in a wall supposedly caused by the M4 had been there before July 18. They also highlighted inconsistencies in the testimony from the nine government witnesses, who at times gave conflicting accounts of how many people were in the room, where they were sitting or standing and how many shots were fired. Siddiqui, who took the stand during the trial against the advice of her defense team, called the report that she had fired the unattended M4 assault rifle at the Americans "the biggest lie." She said she had been trying to flee the police station because she feared being tortured. Siddiqui, whose mental stability often appeared to be in question during the trial, was ejected several times from the Manhattan courtroom for erratic behavior and outbursts. "It is difficult to get a fair trial in this country if the government wants to accuse you of terrorism," said Foster. "It is difficult to get a fair trial on any types of charges. The government is allowed to tell the jury you are a terrorist before you have to put on any evidence. The fear factor that has emerged since 9/11 has permeated into the U.S. court system in a profoundly disturbing way. It embraces the idea that we can compromise core principles, for example the presumption of innocence, based on perceived threats that may or may not come to light. We, as a society, have chosen to cave on fear." I spent more than a year covering al-Qaida for The New York Times in Europe and the Middle East. The threat posed by Islamic extremists, while real, is also wildly overblown, used to foster a climate of fear and political passivity, as well as pump billions of dollars into the hands of the military, private contractors, intelligence agencies and repressive client governments including that of Pakistan. The leader of one FBI counterterrorism squad told The New York Times that of the 5,500 terrorism-related leads its 21 agents had pursued over the past five years, just 5 percent were credible and not one had foiled an actual terrorist plot. These statistics strike me as emblematic of the entire war on terror. Terrorism, however, is a very good business. The number of extremists who are planning to carry out terrorist attacks is minuscule, but there are vast departments and legions of ambitious intelligence and military officers who desperately need to strike a tangible blow against terrorism, real or imagined, to promote their careers as well as justify obscene expenditures and a flagrant abuse of power. All this will not make us safer. It will not protect us from terrorist strikes. The more we dispatch brutal forms of power to the Islamic world the more enraged Muslims and terrorists we propel into the ranks of those who oppose us. The same perverted logic saw the Argentine military, when I lived in Buenos Aires, "disappear" 30,000 of the nation's citizens, the vast majority of whom were innocent. Such logic also fed the drive to root out terrorists in El Salvador, where, when I arrived in 1983, the death squads were killing between 800 and 1,000 people a month. Once you build secret archipelagos of prisons, once you commit huge sums of money and invest your political capital in a ruthless war against subversion, once you empower a network of clandestine killers, operatives and torturers, you fuel the very insecurity and violence you seek to contain. I do not know whether Siddiqui is innocent or guilty. But I do know that permitting jailers, spies, kidnappers and assassins to operate outside of the rule of law contaminates us with our own bile. Siddiqui is one victim. There are thousands more we do not see. These abuses, justified by the war on terror, have created a system of internal and external state terrorism that is far more dangerous to our security and democracy than the threat posed by Islamic radicals. AP / Fareed Khan Mohammad Ahmed, son of Aafia Siddiqui, takes part in a demonstration arranged by Human Rights Network. A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion. Editor, Robert Scheer. Publisher, Zuade Kaufman. Copyright (c) 2010 Truthdig, L.L.C. All rights reserved. Web site development by Hop Studios | Hosted by NEXCESS.NET _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 10 18:19:08 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:49:08 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex In-Reply-To: <249568.32717.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <249568.32717.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89B860B6-EA0C-49AB-B564-906C351C90E5@earthlink.net> Um, I hope that you do not see me defending the US judicial system. Although, for example, one can look at the Indian or Pakistani judicial system for guidance? Phoolan Devi's spirit must be laughing somewhere! Paul Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:22 AM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > In my opinion, the jury-of-ordinary-citizens followed in the USA is > a stupid system and only idiots would give it any kind of credible > possibility that it can consistently deliver just judgements. Many > factors can and will cloud competent and diligent evaluation of the > evidence/arguments presented in court. > > Is Dr Aafia's case yet another one of "Going Muslim" or is it yet > another case of incarceration of innocents by USA/Pakistan/ > Afghanistan in pursuance of 'War on Terror'. > > Either way it is extremely sad. > > In what should be an indication of the mental state of Dr Aafia it > has been reported that she wanted a meeting with President Obama and > had the following statements to make on 9/11: > > - "The President has to talk to me and this is the last opportunity > I have once I'm sentenced … God, it's important, and please don't ig > nore me for the sake of God and this beautiful country." > > - "I have information about attacks, more than 9/11, I want to help > the president to end this group, to finish them," > > - "They are a domestic, US group, they are not Muslims. I am not > lying, I swear" > > http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Trial-Begins-for-Reputed-al-Qaida-Supporter--82049022.html > > http://www.businessrecorder.com.pk/index.php?id=1010805&currPageNo=4&query=&search=&term=&supDate= > > > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: > > > From: Paul D. Miller > Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex > To: "sarai" > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:04 AM > > > reasonably interesting article > Paul > > The Terror-Industrial Complex > > http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror-industrial_complex_20100208/ > > Truthdig Posted on Feb 8, 2010 > > By Chris Hedges > > The conviction of the Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia > Siddiqui in New York last week of trying to kill > American military officers and FBI agents illustrates > that the greatest danger to our security comes not from > al-Qaida but the thousands of shadowy mercenaries, > kidnappers, killers and torturers our government > employs around the globe. > > The bizarre story surrounding Siddiqui, 37, who > received an undergraduate degree from MIT and a > doctorate in neuroscience from Brandeis Univ From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 10 18:28:15 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:58:15 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex In-Reply-To: <89B860B6-EA0C-49AB-B564-906C351C90E5@earthlink.net> References: <249568.32717.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <89B860B6-EA0C-49AB-B564-906C351C90E5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3D9D44C9-C36B-437B-8CD9-505B7963399D@earthlink.net> Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2010, at 7:49 AM, "Paul D. Miller" wrote: > Um, I hope that you do not see me defending the US judicial system. > Although, for example, one can look at the Indian or Pakistani > judicial system for guidance? > > Phoolan Devi's spirit must be laughing somewhere! > > Paul > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:22 AM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > >> In my opinion, the jury-of-ordinary-citizens followed in the USA is >> a stupid system and only idiots would give it any kind of credible >> possibility that it can consistently deliver just judgements. Many >> factors can and will cloud competent and diligent evaluation of the >> evidence/arguments presented in court. >> >> Is Dr Aafia's case yet another one of "Going Muslim" or is it yet >> another case of incarceration of innocents by USA/Pakistan/ >> Afghanistan in pursuance of 'War on Terror'. >> >> Either way it is extremely sad. >> >> In what should be an indication of the mental state of Dr Aafia it >> has been reported that she wanted a meeting with President Obama and >> had the following statements to make on 9/11: >> >> - "The President has to talk to me and this is the last opportunity >> I have once I'm sentenced … God, it's important, and please don't >> ig >> nore me for the sake of God and this beautiful country." >> >> - "I have information about attacks, more than 9/11, I want to help >> the president to end this group, to finish them," >> >> - "They are a domestic, US group, they are not Muslims. I am not >> lying, I swear" >> >> http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Trial-Begins-for-Reputed-al-Qaida-Supporter--82049022.html >> >> http://www.businessrecorder.com.pk/index.php?id=1010805&currPageNo=4&query=&search=&term=&supDate= >> >> >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: >> >> >> From: Paul D. Miller >> Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex >> To: "sarai" >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:04 AM >> >> >> reasonably interesting article >> Paul >> >> The Terror-Industrial Complex >> >> http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror-industrial_complex_20100208/ >> >> Truthdig Posted on Feb 8, 2010 >> >> By Chris Hedges >> >> The conviction of the Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia >> Siddiqui in New York last week of trying to kill >> American military officers and FBI agents illustrates >> that the greatest danger to our security comes not from >> al-Qaida but the thousands of shadowy mercenaries, >> kidnappers, killers and torturers our government >> employs around the globe. >> >> The bizarre story surrounding Siddiqui, 37, who >> received an undergraduate degree from MIT and a >> doctorate in neuroscience from Brandeis Univ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From arshad.mcrc at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 18:53:15 2010 From: arshad.mcrc at gmail.com (arshad amanullah) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:53:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Negotiating and Accommodating Religious Identity in Public Arena: Programme of an international conference on : Comparing Indian and European Experiences with Special Reference to Muslim Minorities In-Reply-To: <2076f31d1002090446i456f10f3oe73206715f6c767a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2076f31d1002090446i456f10f3oe73206715f6c767a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2076f31d1002100523p416c97edq93448437f624375c@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Please find below programme of an international conference on Negotiating and Accommodating Religious Identity in Public Arena: Comparing Indian and European Experiences with Special Reference to Muslim Minorities I shall also present in the conference a paper on "Redefining Ahl-e Hadis Identity in Contemporary India: Dynamics of Exchange between Jamia Salafia of Varanasi and Islamic University of Medina".. Regards, arshad amanullah -------------------------------------------------------------------- PROGRAMME OF THE INTERNATIONAL SEMINAR Negotiating and Accommodating Religious Identity in Public Arena: Comparing Indian and European Experiences with Special Reference to Muslim Minorities 10-12th February 2010 Centre for West Asian Studies Jamia Millia Islamia (A Central University), New Delhi  Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir Near Vice Chancellor Office Jamia Millia Islamia ( A Central University)  New Delhi DAY 1 10th February 2010 (Wednesday)  Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI  09.00 am to 09.30 am - Registration  09.30 am to 11.00 am - Inaugural Session  Chair: Prof.  Imtiaz Ahmed  09.30am to 09.40 am – Welcome and Inaugural Remarks  Hon’ble  Najeeb Jung , Vice Chancellor, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi  09: 40 am to 09.50 am – Introduction of Theme  Prof.  Anwar Alam, Director, Centre for West Asian Studies, Jamia Millia Islamia - Convenor of the Seminar  Dr. Konrad Pedziwiatr, Associate Professor, Tischner European University, Poland - Seminar Consultant  09.50 am to 10. 30 am:  Key Note Address  Prof. T.K. Ommen, Professor Emeritus, School of Social Science, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi  10.30 am to 11.00 am - Inaugural Address by Chief Guest  Shri Salman Khursheed, Union Minister for Minority Affairs, Government of India  High Tea: 11.00 am to 11.30am  Session II:  11.30 am to 1.00 pm - State, Modernity and Religion  Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI  Chair:  Prof. Imtiaz Ahmed  Michael Dusche, Modernity, Nation-State and Islamic Identity Politics Hilal Ahmed: Exploring Muslim Modernities: Public Presence of Mosques in Delhi and London Markha G. Valenta,  The Urban Divine in Flux: Mumbai and Amsterdam  Shahul Ameen K.T, Understanding Modernities and Islamic Formation among Mappila Muslims:the Decline of Kondotti Nerch'  Lunch: 1.00 pm to 2.00pm Session III: 2.00 pm to 3.30 pm - Issues of Representation of Religion in Public Sphere  Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Mir-Taqi- Mir  Chair: Prof. Nadja-Christina Schneider Kyriaki Topidi, Religion and the Constitutional Order: De-Constructing State Neutrality in Germany and Turkey Anwar Alam, Revisting  Religion and Secularism  Debates in Indian Politics  Nathan Tabor, All our Crowns are in Museums: Mushairah Poetry and the Urdu Public Sphere  Yacob Mahi, Regulation of Monk in Public Life Tea Break: 3.30 pm to 3.45 pm  Session IV: 3.45pm to 5.15pm - Political Institutions and Religious Minorities Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI  Chair: Prof. Zoya Hasan  Nadja-Christina Schneider, The transnational and local dynamics of a powerful discourse: Islamic feminism and Muslim women’s rights activism in India Jamil Sherif, The religion question in the UK national census of 2001 – landmark campaign for Muslim recognition  Ziad Fahed, The Religious and National Identities-minorities and majority issues - A Post War Lebanese Approach  Tanveer Fazal, Minority Rights and the Nationalist Doctrine: Contest and Coalescence in the Public Sphere DAY 2 11th February 2010 (Thursday) Session V:  Political Process and Negotiation of Minority Religious Identity 9: 00 AM to 10:30 AM:  Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI Chair: Prof. Jamal Malik   Bruce Lawrence, Negotiating Religious Identity on the parameters of the Indian Ocean   K.C. Muneer, Kerala Model of Muslim Politics in India  Tea Break: 10.30 am to 10.45 am Session VI: 10.45 am to 12.30 noon - Debates on Multiculturalism Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI  Chair: Prof. Gurpreet Mahajan Suresh Kumar, Citizenship and Affirmation of Group Difference: Indian Experience of Negotiating Religious Identities Amir Ali, Multiculturalism, Group Rights and Secularism  Emrah Akbaş, A Critique of Multiculturalism-Case of Social Service in Germany Shorab Mohammad, European and Indian Models of Multiculturalism and the Question of Muslim Identity Session VII: 12.30am to 1.30pm - Islamic Response to Multiculturalism  Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI Chair: Prof. Akhtural  Wasey Hussain Qutbuddin,  Analyzing Qur’anic and Hadith Justifications in Islamic Response to Musliticulturalism  Moussa Khedimellah, Islam in France  Omair Anas, Multiculturalism in Indian Islamic Scholarship: A Critical Analysis Lunch: 1.30pm to 2.30pm Session VIII: 2.30 pm to 4.00 pm : Naturalisation, Education, and Integration:  Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI  Chair: Prof. Mohammad Mian Jamal Malik, Identity Formation and Education of Value: The Process of the Shaping a New Islam in Germany Markha G. Valenta, School Jitters: Education into (and Out of) Pluralism in India and the  Netherlands  S. M. Sajid,  Issues and Problems of Religious and Secular Education among Muslims in India".  Anne Fornerod, Naturalisation of Muslims in France Tea Break : 4.00 pm to 4:15 pm Session IX:  4:15 pm to 5.30pm - State, Discrimination and Securitization Debates  Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI Chair: Konrad Pedziwiatr  Ines Wouters, Rights of Religious Minorities in the Light of European Convention on Human Rights and National Constitutions Rinku Lamba, Secularism and the Threat of Neocolonial Governmentality  Katayoun Alidadi, "Protecting Muslim Minorities in The Work Place? >From European   Anti-Discrimination toIndian Quota."  Jyoti Singh & Ajay Singh Rathor, Legal Protection against Discrimination DAY 3 12th Feb. 2010(Friday) Session X: 9.30 am to 10.30am : Politics of Muslim Identity I Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI  Chair: Markha G. Valenta  Konrad Pedziwiatr, New Muslim Religious Brokers in European Cities and Politics of Muslim Citizenship  Razak Khan, Rethinking Muslim Politics: Rehabilitating the Local  Z. Fareen Parvez,  The Role of Muslim Class Relations in the Politics of Islam in France and India 10:30 am to 10:45 am: Tea Break Session XI: 10.45 am to 12.30 am - Politics of Muslim Identity II Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI  Chair: Arif Mohammad Khan  Thierry Dicostanzo, Indian Muslim Journalism and the Idea of Pakistan in 1940s  Rizwan Qaisar, Settled and Unsettled Muslim Identity in Post- Independent India  Arshad Alam, The Making of a Madrasa: Religion, Caste and Politics in a North Indian Qasba  Arshad Amanulllah, Re-defining Ahle Hadis Identity in Contemporary India: Dynamics of Exchange between Jamia Salafia of Varanasi and Islamic University of Medina Lunch and Namaz Break: 12.30 noon to 2.00pm  Concluding Session: 2:.00 pm to 4: 00 pm  Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir,  Near  VC Office, JMI Chair: Prof. Bruce Lawrence Valedictory Lecture: Prof. Mushirul Hasan Observations and Recommendations   Vote of Thanks: Anwar Alam & Konrad Pedziwiatr Sponsored By:  Jamia Millia Islamia  Indian Council of Social Science Research  Indlogue Foundation & Keen Impex Pvt Ltd From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 19:07:32 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:37:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex In-Reply-To: <89B860B6-EA0C-49AB-B564-906C351C90E5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <399865.64971.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Paul   The comment was not directed at you.   By all accounts the access to Legal Redress is excellent in the USA. The lack of that in India (and I think in Pakistan too) creates a strangulation that only helps in corrupt practices and in tampering with due judicial processes (whether amongst officers of the court or people in the investigating agencies). My comment was on the system of adjucation by 'jury consisting of ordinary citizens'. I do not think it is a good system. To repeat myself "Many factors can and will cloud competent and diligent evaluation of the evidence/arguments presented in court."   Your response seems to suggest that since the Indian (or Pakistani) judicial system is not very efficient or fair therefore one should not comment on the American system. I hope I read that wrong. It would be a stupid position to take   Kshmendra   PS. Phoolan Devi in her mirth is likely to be joined by those who have been judged "guilty' in the USA and have been 'executed' with subsequent investigation/evidence proving them to be 'innocent'   --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: From: Paul D. Miller Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai" , "Paul D. Miller" Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 6:19 PM Um, I hope that you do not see me defending the US judicial system. Although, for example, one can look at the Indian or Pakistani judicial system for guidance? Phoolan Devi's spirit must be laughing somewhere! Paul Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:22 AM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > In my opinion, the jury-of-ordinary-citizens followed in the USA is a stupid system and only idiots would give it any kind of credible possibility that it can consistently deliver just judgements. Many factors can and will cloud competent and diligent evaluation of the evidence/arguments presented in court. > > Is Dr Aafia's case yet another one of "Going Muslim" or is it yet another case of incarceration of innocents by USA/Pakistan/Afghanistan in pursuance of 'War on Terror'. > > Either way it is extremely sad. > > In what should be an indication of the mental state of Dr Aafia it has been reported that she wanted a meeting with President Obama and had the following statements to make on 9/11: > > - "The President has to talk to me and this is the last opportunity I have once I'm sentenced … God, it's important, and please don't ignore me for the sake of God and this beautiful country." > > - "I have information about attacks, more than 9/11, I want to help the president to end this group, to finish them," > > - "They are a domestic, US group, they are not Muslims. I am not lying, I swear" > > http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Trial-Begins-for-Reputed-al-Qaida-Supporter--82049022.html > > http://www.businessrecorder.com.pk/index.php?id=1010805&currPageNo=4&query=&search=&term=&supDate= > > > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: > > > From: Paul D. Miller > Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex > To: "sarai" > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:04 AM > > > reasonably interesting article > Paul > > The Terror-Industrial Complex > > http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror-industrial_complex_20100208/ > > Truthdig Posted on Feb 8, 2010 > > By Chris Hedges > > The conviction of the Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia > Siddiqui in New York last week of trying to kill > American military officers and FBI agents illustrates > that the greatest danger to our security comes not from > al-Qaida but the thousands of shadowy mercenaries, > kidnappers, killers and torturers our government > employs around the globe. > > The bizarre story surrounding Siddiqui, 37, who > received an undergraduate degree from MIT and a > doctorate in neuroscience from Brandeis Univ From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 19:30:03 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:00:03 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Negotiating and Accommodating Religious Identity inPublic Arena: Programme of an international conference on :Comparing Indian and European Experiences with SpecialReference to Muslim Minorities References: <2076f31d1002090446i456f10f3oe73206715f6c767a@mail.gmail.com> <2076f31d1002100523p416c97edq93448437f624375c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <56CAAAFDB8E041A18ACBDFAA891FDF25@shabori> I will appreciate electronic copies of any notes/handouts if someone can post to the list or to my personal email. Or please point to me any website that might contain summary/report on the event. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "arshad amanullah" To: ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:23 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Negotiating and Accommodating Religious Identity inPublic Arena: Programme of an international conference on :Comparing Indian and European Experiences with SpecialReference to Muslim Minorities > Dear all, > > Please find below programme of an international conference on > > Negotiating and Accommodating Religious Identity in Public Arena: > Comparing > Indian and European Experiences with Special Reference to Muslim > Minorities > > I shall also present in the conference a paper on "Redefining Ahl-e > Hadis Identity in Contemporary India: Dynamics of Exchange between > Jamia Salafia of Varanasi and Islamic University of Medina".. > > > Regards, > > > arshad amanullah > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > PROGRAMME OF THE INTERNATIONAL SEMINAR > > > > Negotiating and Accommodating Religious Identity in Public Arena: > Comparing > Indian and European Experiences with Special Reference to Muslim > Minorities > > 10-12th February 2010 > > Centre for West Asian Studies > > Jamia Millia Islamia (A Central University), New Delhi > > Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir > > Near Vice Chancellor Office > > Jamia Millia Islamia ( A Central University) > > New Delhi > > DAY 1 > > 10th February 2010 (Wednesday) > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > 09.00 am to 09.30 am - Registration > > 09.30 am to 11.00 am - Inaugural Session > > Chair: Prof. Imtiaz Ahmed > > 09.30am to 09.40 am – Welcome and Inaugural Remarks > > Hon’ble Najeeb Jung , Vice Chancellor, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi > > 09: 40 am to 09.50 am – Introduction of Theme > > Prof. Anwar Alam, Director, Centre for West Asian Studies, Jamia > Millia Islamia - Convenor of the Seminar > > Dr. Konrad Pedziwiatr, Associate Professor, Tischner European > University, Poland - Seminar Consultant > > 09.50 am to 10. 30 am: Key Note Address > > Prof. T.K. Ommen, Professor Emeritus, School of Social Science, > Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi > > 10.30 am to 11.00 am - Inaugural Address by Chief Guest > > Shri Salman Khursheed, Union Minister for Minority Affairs, Government of > India > > High Tea: 11.00 am to 11.30am > > > > > Session II: > > 11.30 am to 1.00 pm - State, Modernity and Religion > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > Chair: Prof. Imtiaz Ahmed > > Michael Dusche, Modernity, Nation-State and Islamic Identity Politics > > Hilal Ahmed: Exploring Muslim Modernities: Public Presence of Mosques > in Delhi and London > > Markha G. Valenta, The Urban Divine in Flux: Mumbai and Amsterdam > > Shahul Ameen K.T, Understanding Modernities and Islamic Formation > among Mappila Muslims:the Decline of Kondotti Nerch' > > Lunch: 1.00 pm to 2.00pm > > > > Session III: > > > > 2.00 pm to 3.30 pm - Issues of Representation of Religion in Public Sphere > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Mir-Taqi- Mir > > Chair: Prof. Nadja-Christina Schneider > > Kyriaki Topidi, Religion and the Constitutional Order: De-Constructing > State Neutrality in Germany and Turkey > Anwar Alam, Revisting Religion and Secularism Debates in Indian Politics > > Nathan Tabor, All our Crowns are in Museums: Mushairah Poetry and the > Urdu Public Sphere > > Yacob Mahi, Regulation of Monk in Public Life > > > Tea Break: 3.30 pm to 3.45 pm > > > Session IV: > > > > 3.45pm to 5.15pm - Political Institutions and Religious Minorities > > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > Chair: Prof. Zoya Hasan > > Nadja-Christina Schneider, The transnational and local dynamics of a > powerful discourse: > > Islamic feminism and Muslim women’s rights activism in India > > Jamil Sherif, The religion question in the UK national census of 2001 > – landmark campaign for Muslim recognition > > Ziad Fahed, The Religious and National Identities-minorities and > majority issues - A Post War Lebanese Approach > > Tanveer Fazal, Minority Rights and the Nationalist Doctrine: Contest > and Coalescence in the Public Sphere > > > DAY 2 > > 11th February 2010 (Thursday) > > Session V: Political Process and Negotiation of Minority Religious > Identity > > 9: 00 AM to 10:30 AM: > > Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > > Chair: Prof. Jamal Malik > > Bruce Lawrence, Negotiating Religious Identity on the parameters of > the Indian Ocean > > K.C. Muneer, Kerala Model of Muslim Politics in India > > Tea Break: 10.30 am to 10.45 am > > > Session VI: > > 10.45 am to 12.30 noon - Debates on Multiculturalism > > Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > Chair: Prof. Gurpreet Mahajan > > > Suresh Kumar, Citizenship and Affirmation of Group Difference: Indian > Experience of Negotiating Religious Identities > > Amir Ali, Multiculturalism, Group Rights and Secularism > > Emrah Akbaş, A Critique of Multiculturalism-Case of Social Service in > Germany > > Shorab Mohammad, European and Indian Models of Multiculturalism and > the Question of Muslim Identity > > > Session VII: > > > 12.30am to 1.30pm - Islamic Response to Multiculturalism > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > > Chair: Prof. Akhtural Wasey > > > Hussain Qutbuddin, Analyzing Qur’anic and Hadith Justifications in > Islamic Response to Musliticulturalism > > Moussa Khedimellah, Islam in France > > Omair Anas, Multiculturalism in Indian Islamic Scholarship: A Critical > Analysis > > > > Lunch: 1.30pm to 2.30pm > > > Session VIII: 2.30 pm to 4.00 pm : Naturalisation, Education, and > Integration: > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > Chair: Prof. Mohammad Mian > > Jamal Malik, Identity Formation and Education of Value: The Process of > the Shaping a New Islam in Germany > > Markha G. Valenta, School Jitters: Education into (and Out of) > Pluralism in India and the > > Netherlands > > S. M. Sajid, Issues and Problems of Religious and Secular Education > among Muslims in India". > > Anne Fornerod, Naturalisation of Muslims in France > > > Tea Break : 4.00 pm to 4:15 pm > > > Session IX: > > 4:15 pm to 5.30pm - State, Discrimination and Securitization Debates > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > Chair: Konrad Pedziwiatr > > Ines Wouters, Rights of Religious Minorities in the Light of European > Convention on Human Rights and National Constitutions > > > Rinku Lamba, Secularism and the Threat of Neocolonial Governmentality > > Katayoun Alidadi, "Protecting Muslim Minorities in The Work Place? > From European Anti-Discrimination toIndian Quota." > > Jyoti Singh & Ajay Singh Rathor, Legal Protection against Discrimination > > > > DAY 3 > > 12th Feb. 2010(Friday) > > Session X: 9.30 am to 10.30am : Politics of Muslim Identity I > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > Chair: Markha G. Valenta > > Konrad Pedziwiatr, New Muslim Religious Brokers in European Cities > and Politics of Muslim Citizenship > > Razak Khan, Rethinking Muslim Politics: Rehabilitating the Local > > Z. Fareen Parvez, The Role of Muslim Class Relations in the Politics > of Islam in France and India > > > 10:30 am to 10:45 am: Tea Break > > > Session XI: > > 10.45 am to 12.30 am - Politics of Muslim Identity II > > > Venue : Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > Chair: Arif Mohammad Khan > > Thierry Dicostanzo, Indian Muslim Journalism and the Idea of Pakistan in > 1940s > > Rizwan Qaisar, Settled and Unsettled Muslim Identity in Post- Independent > India > > Arshad Alam, The Making of a Madrasa: Religion, Caste and Politics in > a North Indian Qasba > > Arshad Amanulllah, Re-defining Ahle Hadis Identity in Contemporary > India: Dynamics of Exchange between Jamia Salafia of Varanasi and > Islamic University of Medina > > > Lunch and Namaz Break: 12.30 noon to 2.00pm > > Concluding Session: 2:.00 pm to 4: 00 pm > > Venue: Mir Anis Hall, Dayar-Mir-Taqi- Mir, Near VC Office, JMI > > > Chair: Prof. Bruce Lawrence > > > Valedictory Lecture: Prof. Mushirul Hasan > > Observations and Recommendations > > Vote of Thanks: Anwar Alam & Konrad Pedziwiatr > > Sponsored By: > > > Jamia Millia Islamia > > Indian Council of Social Science Research > > Indlogue Foundation & Keen Impex Pvt Ltd > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 10 19:32:29 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:02:29 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex In-Reply-To: <399865.64971.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <399865.64971.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13F23F4D-4B5D-4035-810D-8210D7B1E189@earthlink.net> Hello Kshmendra - no, I don't think that the US system is good. Nor are the Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi or Sri Lankan or Ukranian or Chinese or Myanmar or Haitian etc judicial systems are that great. They're all pretty lame. Ditto for US. The statistics about people of color in the US system is appalling - for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/opinion/02herbert.html Google term Dechoukaj It's Haitian creole for the term 'decoupage' - uprooting. We could all use a bit. From what I've read, maybe Sweden's judicial system is ok. But thanx for your note. Paul Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Paul > > The comment was not directed at you. > > By all accounts the access to Legal Redress is excellent in the USA. > The lack of that in India (and I think in Pakistan too) creates a > strangulation that only helps in corrupt practices and in tampering > with due judicial processes (whether amongst officers of the court > or people in the investigating agencies). > My comment was on the system of adjucation by 'jury consisting of > ordinary citizens'. I do not think it is a good system. To repeat > myself "Many factors can and will cloud competent and diligent > evaluation of the evidence/arguments presented in court." > > Your response seems to suggest that since the Indian (or Pakistani) > judicial system is not very efficient or fair therefore one should > not comment on the American system. I hope I read that wrong. It > would be a stupid position to take > > Kshmendra > > PS. Phoolan Devi in her mirth is likely to be joined by those who > have been judged "guilty' in the USA and have been 'executed' with > subsequent investigation/evidence proving them to be 'innocent' > > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: > > From: Paul D. Miller > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial > Complex > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" > Cc: "sarai" , "Paul D. Miller" > > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 6:19 PM > > Um, I hope that you do not see me defending the US judicial system. > Although, for example, one can look at the Indian or Pakistani > judicial system for guidance? > > Phoolan Devi's spirit must be laughing somewhere! > > Paul > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:22 AM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > In my opinion, the jury-of-ordinary-citizens followed in the USA > is a stupid system and only idiots would give it any kind of > credible possibility that it can consistently deliver just > judgements. Many factors can and will cloud competent and diligent > evaluation of the evidence/arguments presented in court. > > > > Is Dr Aafia's case yet another one of "Going Muslim" or is it yet > another case of incarceration of innocents by USA/Pakistan/ > Afghanistan in pursuance of 'War on Terror'. > > > > Either way it is extremely sad. > > > > In what should be an indication of the mental state of Dr Aafia it > has been reported that she wanted a meeting with President Obama and > had the following statements to make on 9/11: > > > > - "The President has to talk to me and this is the last > opportunity I have once I'm sentenced … God, it's important, and ple > ase don't ignore me for the sake of God and this beautiful country." > > > > - "I have information about attacks, more than 9/11, I want to > help the president to end this group, to finish them," > > > > - "They are a domestic, US group, they are not Muslims. I am not > lying, I swear" > > > > http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Trial-Begins-for-Reputed-al-Qaida-Supporter--82049022.html > > > > http://www.businessrecorder.com.pk/index.php?id=1010805&currPageNo=4&query=&search=&term=&supDate= > > > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: > > > > > > From: Paul D. Miller > > Subject: [Reader-list] Aafia Siddiqui: The Terror-Industrial Complex > > To: "sarai" > > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:04 AM > > > > > > reasonably interesting article > > Paul > > > > The Terror-Industrial Complex > > > > http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror-industrial_complex_20100208/ > > > > Truthdig Posted on Feb 8, 2010 > > > > By Chris Hedges > > > > The conviction of the Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia > > Siddiqui in New York last week of trying to kill > > American military officers and FBI agents illustrates > > that the greatest danger to our security comes not from > > al-Qaida but the thousands of shadowy mercenaries, > > kidnappers, killers and torturers our government > > employs around the globe. > > > > The bizarre story surrounding Siddiqui, 37, who > > received an undergraduate degree from MIT and a > > doctorate in neuroscience from Brandeis Univ > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 19:44:58 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:14:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic Message-ID: <781156.86462.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic"   Posted By David Kenner  Wednesday, February 3, 2010   Despite having served for years as a distinguished Pakistani diplomat, Akbar Zeb reportedly cannot receive accreditation as Pakistan's ambassador to Saudi Arabia. The reason, apparently, has nothing to do with his credentials, and everything to do with his name -- which, in Arabic, translates to "biggest dick":   "In Saudi Arabia, size does count."   According to this Arabic-language article in the Arab Times, Pakistan had previously floated Zeb's name as ambassador to the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, only to have him rejected for the same reason. One can only assume that submitting Zeb's name to a number of Arabic-speaking countries is some unique form of punishment designed by the Pakistani Foreign Ministry -- or the result of a particularly egregio us cockup.   http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/03/ambassador_at_very_large     Jan-24-2010 Tim King Salem-News.com "In Saudi Arabia, size does count."   (SALEM, Ore.) - A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zeb, equates to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic. Saudi officials, apparently overwhelmed by the idea of the name, put their foot down and gave the idea of his being posted there, the kibosh.   Akbar Zeb is no newcomer to politics, in fact you could say he's a pretty big deal. This long-ranging high level diplomat has worked with some of the largest members of world governments, players charged with negotiating the outcome of the world's current events.   He most recently served as High Commissioner Designate of Pakistan to Canada, and prior to that he was the ambassador of Pakistan to South Africa,. He also served in that capacity in Washington from 1983-87, and New Delhi from 1994-2000.   He earlier worked at the Pakistan headquarters as section officer from 1982- 83, director from 1987-94 and director-general from 2000-2003.   Miangul Akbar Zeb, also whose name news agencies sometimes refer to as Zib, was born on 15 February, 1954. He holds a Masters degree. http://salem-news.com/articles/january242010/big_dick.php     From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Feb 10 19:51:04 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:51:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic In-Reply-To: <781156.86462.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <781156.86462.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39368D5A-80FD-4860-903F-066B28D24D9A@sarai.net> Dear Kshmendra, Thanks for posting this delightful item of information. It's such a pity that knowledge of classical languages like Arabic (or, for that matter, Sanskrit) is limited, or then again, maybe not. The worthies at the Ministry of External Affairs must be thanking their stars that Sanskrit is not understood. Because this is what guarantees that the eventual or hypothetical deployment as envoy of any distinguished personage by the name of Mahalingam (which means exactly what Akbar Zeb means in Arabic) who might be currently employed by the GOI's MEA, would never be jeopardized. warmly, Shuddha On 10-Feb-10, at 7:44 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > "Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic" > > Posted By David Kenner Wednesday, February 3, 2010 > > Despite having served for years as a distinguished Pakistani > diplomat, Akbar Zeb reportedly cannot receive accreditation as > Pakistan's ambassador to Saudi Arabia. The reason, apparently, has > nothing to do with his credentials, and everything to do with his > name -- which, in Arabic, translates to "biggest dick": > > "In Saudi Arabia, size does count." > > According to this Arabic-language article in the Arab Times, > Pakistan had previously floated Zeb's name as ambassador to the > United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, only to have him rejected for the > same reason. One can only assume that submitting Zeb's name to a > number of Arabic-speaking countries is some unique form of > punishment designed by the Pakistani Foreign Ministry -- or the > result of a particularly egregio > us cockup. > > http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/03/ > ambassador_at_very_large > > > Jan-24-2010 > Tim King Salem-News.com > "In Saudi Arabia, size does count." > > (SALEM, Ore.) - A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected > as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zeb, equates > to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic. Saudi officials, apparently > overwhelmed by the idea of the name, put their foot down and gave > the idea of his being posted there, the kibosh. > > Akbar Zeb is no newcomer to politics, in fact you could say he's a > pretty big deal. This long-ranging high level diplomat has worked > with some of the largest members of world governments, players > charged with negotiating the outcome of the world's current events. > > He most recently served as High Commissioner Designate of Pakistan > to Canada, and prior to that he was the ambassador of Pakistan to > South Africa,. He also served in that capacity in Washington from > 1983-87, and New Delhi from 1994-2000. > > He earlier worked at the Pakistan headquarters as section officer > from 1982- 83, director from 1987-94 and director-general from > 2000-2003. > > Miangul Akbar Zeb, also whose name news agencies sometimes refer to > as Zib, was born on 15 February, 1954. He holds a Masters degree. > http://salem-news.com/articles/january242010/big_dick.php > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From patrice at xs4all.nl Wed Feb 10 20:06:34 2010 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:36:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic In-Reply-To: <39368D5A-80FD-4860-903F-066B28D24D9A@sarai.net> References: <781156.86462.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <39368D5A-80FD-4860-903F-066B28D24D9A@sarai.net> Message-ID: Reader List readers may be amused to read (!) that 'le zeb' is also the common French word for the male organ, whether imperial or not - in the southern part of the country at least. Chance is that Mr Akbar Zeb wouldn't make it to the Elysee either... cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos! > Dear Kshmendra, > > Thanks for posting this delightful item of information. > > It's such a pity that knowledge of classical languages like Arabic > (or, for that matter, Sanskrit) is limited, or then again, maybe not. > > The worthies at the Ministry of External Affairs must be thanking > their stars that Sanskrit is not understood. Because this is what > guarantees that the eventual or hypothetical deployment as envoy of > any distinguished personage by the name of Mahalingam (which means > exactly what Akbar Zeb means in Arabic) who might be currently > employed by the GOI's MEA, would never be jeopardized. > > warmly, > > Shuddha > > > On 10-Feb-10, at 7:44 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > >> "Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic" >> >> Posted By David Kenner Wednesday, February 3, 2010 >> >> Despite having served for years as a distinguished Pakistani >> diplomat, Akbar Zeb reportedly cannot receive accreditation as >> Pakistan's ambassador to Saudi Arabia. The reason, apparently, has >> nothing to do with his credentials, and everything to do with his >> name -- which, in Arabic, translates to "biggest dick": >> >> "In Saudi Arabia, size does count." From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 10 20:16:01 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:46:01 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Haiti Numbers - 27 Days After Quake References: <20100210024316.D9BCD20091@viewsic.mayfirst.org> Message-ID: > Haiti Numbers - 27 Days After Quake > > By Bill Quigley > > February 9, 2010, CommonDreams.org > > http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/02/09 > > 890 million. Amount of international debt that Haiti owes > creditors. Finance ministers from developing countries > announced they will forgive $290 million. Source: Wall Street > Journal > > 644 million. Donations for Haiti to private organizations > have exceed $644 million. Over $200 million has gone to the > Red Cross, who had 15 people working on health projects in > Haiti before the earthquake. About $40 million has gone to > Partners in Health, which had 5,000 people working on health > in Haiti before the quake. Source: New York Times. > > 1 million. People still homeless or needing shelter in Haiti. > Source: MSNBC. > > 1 million. People who have been given food by the UN World > Food Program in Port au Prince - another million in Port au > Prince still need help. Source: UN World Food Program. > > 300,000. People injured in the earthquake, reported by > Haitian Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive. Source: CNN. > > 212,000. People reported killed by earthquake by Haitian > Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive. Source: CNN.. > > 63,000. There are 63,000 pregnant women among the people > displaced by the earthquake. 7,000 women will deliver their > children each month. Source: UN Populations Fund. > > 17,000. Number of United States troops stationed on or off > coast in Haiti, down from a high of 22,000. Source: AFP. > > 9,000. United Nations troops in Haiti. Source: Miami Herald. > > 7,000. Number of tents distributed by United Nations. Miami > Herald. President Preval of Haiti has asked for 200,000 > tents. Source: Reuters. > > 4,000. Number of amputations performed in Haiti since the > earthquake. Source: AFP. > > 900. Number of latrines that have been dug for the people > displaced from their homes. Another 950,000 people still need > sanitation. Source: New York Times. > > 75. An hourly wage of 75 cents per hour is paid by the United > Nations Development Program to people in Haiti who have been > hired to help in the clean up. The UNDP is paying 30,000 > people to help clean up Haiti, 180 Haitian Gourdes ($4.47) > for six hours of work. The program hopes to hire 100,000 > people. Source: United Nations News Briefing. > > 1.25. The U.S. is pledged to spend as much as $379 million in > Haitian relief. This is about $1.25 for each person in the > United States. Source: Canadian Press. > > 1. For every one dollar of U.S. aid to Haiti, 42 cents is for > disaster assistance, 33 cents is for the U.S. military, 9 > cents is for food, 9 cents is to transport the food, 5 cents > to pay Haitians to help with recovery effort, 1 cent is for > the Haitian government and ½ a cent is for the government of > the Dominican Republic. Source: Associated Press. Bill has > visited Haiti numerous times working for human rights. He is > legal director of the Center for Constitutional Rights. His > email is quigley77 at gmail.com > From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 09:53:53 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:53:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Volunteer Book Review Editor Needed @ Words Without Borders Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Words without Borders Date: Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:58 AM Subject: Special Announcement: Volunteer Book Review Editor Needed To: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Help Wanted: Volunteer Book Review Editor Dear Friends, Words Without Borders is looking for a volunteer book review editor to assign and edit two lead and two short reviews per month for the magazine. Candidates must have a strong interest in international literature as well as a familiarity with new and forthcoming books in English translation. Send CVs, clips, and four suggestions (two long and two short) for current review possibilities along with proposed reviewers to reviews at wordswithoutborders.org. Candidates must be based in New York City. Please feel free to forward this message on to anyone who may be interested. All the best, Words without Borders From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 10:13:31 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:13:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic In-Reply-To: <39368D5A-80FD-4860-903F-066B28D24D9A@sarai.net> References: <781156.86462.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <39368D5A-80FD-4860-903F-066B28D24D9A@sarai.net> Message-ID: I am sure there are hundreds of Mahalingams working in the Gulf, especially Saudi Arabia. Wonder if they were ever asked to explain the meaning of their names in Arabic. (No offense meant). By the way, this Pakistani diplomat's first name is also Mian-gul, which makes the entire name relatable to the name of someone we know from south India - Mahalingam Pushpam... what a small world. On 2/10/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Kshmendra, > > Thanks for posting this delightful item of information. > > It's such a pity that knowledge of classical languages like Arabic > (or, for that matter, Sanskrit) is limited, or then again, maybe not. > > The worthies at the Ministry of External Affairs must be thanking > their stars that Sanskrit is not understood. Because this is what > guarantees that the eventual or hypothetical deployment as envoy of > any distinguished personage by the name of Mahalingam (which means > exactly what Akbar Zeb means in Arabic) who might be currently > employed by the GOI's MEA, would never be jeopardized. > > warmly, > > Shuddha > > > On 10-Feb-10, at 7:44 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > >> "Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic" >> >> Posted By David Kenner Wednesday, February 3, 2010 >> >> Despite having served for years as a distinguished Pakistani >> diplomat, Akbar Zeb reportedly cannot receive accreditation as >> Pakistan's ambassador to Saudi Arabia. The reason, apparently, has >> nothing to do with his credentials, and everything to do with his >> name -- which, in Arabic, translates to "biggest dick": >> >> "In Saudi Arabia, size does count." >> >> According to this Arabic-language article in the Arab Times, >> Pakistan had previously floated Zeb's name as ambassador to the >> United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, only to have him rejected for the >> same reason. One can only assume that submitting Zeb's name to a >> number of Arabic-speaking countries is some unique form of >> punishment designed by the Pakistani Foreign Ministry -- or the >> result of a particularly egregio >> us cockup. >> >> http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/03/ >> ambassador_at_very_large >> >> >> Jan-24-2010 >> Tim King Salem-News.com >> "In Saudi Arabia, size does count." >> >> (SALEM, Ore.) - A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected >> as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zeb, equates >> to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic. Saudi officials, apparently >> overwhelmed by the idea of the name, put their foot down and gave >> the idea of his being posted there, the kibosh. >> >> Akbar Zeb is no newcomer to politics, in fact you could say he's a >> pretty big deal. This long-ranging high level diplomat has worked >> with some of the largest members of world governments, players >> charged with negotiating the outcome of the world's current events. >> >> He most recently served as High Commissioner Designate of Pakistan >> to Canada, and prior to that he was the ambassador of Pakistan to >> South Africa,. He also served in that capacity in Washington from >> 1983-87, and New Delhi from 1994-2000. >> >> He earlier worked at the Pakistan headquarters as section officer >> from 1982- 83, director from 1987-94 and director-general from >> 2000-2003. >> >> Miangul Akbar Zeb, also whose name news agencies sometimes refer to >> as Zib, was born on 15 February, 1954. He holds a Masters degree. >> http://salem-news.com/articles/january242010/big_dick.php >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 13:16:45 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:16:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Need help with article on Kanavu Message-ID: Hello friends I'm looking for this EPW article. It isn't available online for non-members. If anyone on this group is a member, and could help me out, I'd be grateful. Thanks Chintan ------------------------------ *Kanavu- Where Learning Happens* A discussion of the ethnography of an alternative school/commune, Kanavu in Wayanadu district of Kerala. It explores the diverse learning spaces and methodologies that have been incorporated into its system, where learning happens for children who participate. *--Alex M George--* 02-07-2005 [COMMENTARY] Issue : VOL 40 No. 27 July 02 - July 08, 2005 From eternalyouth at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 17:26:43 2010 From: eternalyouth at gmail.com (Bibek Paudel) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:41:43 +0545 Subject: [Reader-list] Does the murder of Jamim Shah in Kathmandu imply anything broader? Message-ID: Hi all, I am a reader of this list, from Nepal. I haven't posted anything to this list so far, so please inform me if my posting doesn't go well with the expectations of other readers. Have you been following the murder of Nepalese media entrepreneur Jamim Shah in Nepal and its coverage in Indian media? Quoting blog.com.np http://blog.com.np/2010/02/07/was-jamim-shah-anti-india-with-isi-and-underworld-nexus/ : Shah may be guilty for his alleged anti-India activities on Nepali soil but that was never verified. Neither we heard of any reports of India sharing its intelligence about Shah’s anti-India activities with Nepali authorities. There are many media outlets in Nepal (particularly newspapers) that are believed to be run (or help run) by the Indian embassy in Kathmandu because they run not only hagiographic reports about everything-India but also negative reports about Pakistan. About Shah too, there were rumors in Kahtmandu about his anti-India things but again they were never challenged in related authorities. Another post might be helpful too: http://blog.com.np/2010/02/08/jamim-shah-murder-update-indian-says-he-killed/ Here is the most important part: “[The Jamim Shah murder] is a statement from New Delhi that it will not let off anyone it perceives as hostile to its national interests.” From: http://blog.com.np/2010/02/09/jamim-shah-murder-a-statement-from-delhi/ Here are my opinions: RAW might have used Chhota Rajan gang to get him killed. I am not sure about his criminal records (noone in Nepal is), but such an act of killing is very bad and sad. Besides, it only helps those suspicious of India's motives get more united and stronger in their belief. claiming oneself a promoter of democracy and acting otherwise is very unfortunate, and it will weaken sympathizers of better india-nepal relations. it will also invite greater involvement of US, Israel, China, Pakistan and other non-state entities in Nepal. Noone wins. I hope democracy dissidents in India speak up about it. Like Outlook, Hindu, Arundhati Roy etc. But i dont think its on their priority. I am thinking of mailing all of them with a request. Lets see. comments? Bibek From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 17:40:51 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:40:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Consultations on the Health Toolkit for Street Kids in B'lore, Hyd, Chennai Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chandni Parekh Date: 11 February 2010 17:39 Subject: Consultations on the Sexual Health Toolkit for Street Kids in B'lore, Hyd, Chennai To: Sarai List Excerpts from http://psychologynews.posterous.com/consultations-on-the-sexual-health-toolkit-fo It is a great pleasure for me to announce the official launch of the English-language version of the Sexual Health Intervention Toolkit for Street Children and Out-of-School Slum Children in India! Please note that these consultations are meant to be small and intensive, and specifically want to include (South) Indian NGOs who are directly working with considerable numbers of teenage street children and/or out-of-school high-risk profiled teenage slum children. The 2-day Indian NGO consultations will be held in: ... Bangalore: 15-16 February 2010 ... Hyderabad: 23-24 February 2010 ... Chennai: 5-6 March 2010 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 11 19:53:42 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:23:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic In-Reply-To: <39368D5A-80FD-4860-903F-066B28D24D9A@sarai.net> Message-ID: <897009.21809.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha   Yes, 'Maha-lingam' it would seem would be the equivalent of 'Akbar Zeb' as far as the common recognition of the word 'Linga' is concerned; that it means Phallus.    But then there are commentaries on "Linga" such as the "Linga Puraana" and the "Shiv Puraana" which seem to suggest (judging from some translated extracts) that "Linga" carries a meaning other than Phallus.   But you know that. I am sure you do.   Well, in any case, an interesting analogy given by you, as was the French one given by Patrice.   This reminds me of how the (nasalised pronunciation of the) Kashmiri word for 'Fish' amuses other North Indians.   Similarly one product from the "Girnar" brand of tea quite scandalised all Kashmiris who heard it's Radio-Ad.     Kshmendra      --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:51 PM Dear Kshmendra,  Thanks for posting this delightful item of information.  It's such a pity that knowledge of classical languages like Arabic (or, for that matter, Sanskrit) is limited, or then again, maybe not.  The worthies at the Ministry of External Affairs must be thanking their stars that Sanskrit is not understood. Because this is what guarantees that the eventual or hypothetical deployment as envoy of any distinguished personage by the name of Mahalingam (which means exactly what Akbar Zeb means in Arabic) who might be currently  employed by the GOI's MEA, would never be jeopardized.  warmly,  Shuddha On 10-Feb-10, at 7:44 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: "Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic"   Posted By David Kenner  Wednesday, February 3, 2010   Despite having served for years as a distinguished Pakistani diplomat, Akbar Zeb reportedly cannot receive accreditation as Pakistan's ambassador to Saudi Arabia. The reason, apparently, has nothing to do with his credentials, and everything to do with his name -- which, in Arabic, translates to "biggest dick":    "In Saudi Arabia, size does count."    According to this Arabic-language article in the Arab Times, Pakistan had previously floated Zeb's name as ambassador to the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, only to have him rejected for the same reason. One can only assume that submitting Zeb's name to a number of Arabic-speaking countries is some unique form of punishment designed by the Pakistani Foreign Ministry -- or the result of a particularly egregio us cockup.   http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/03/ambassador_at_very_large     Jan-24-2010  Tim King Salem-News.com "In Saudi Arabia, size does count."   (SALEM, Ore.) - A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zeb, equates to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic. Saudi officials, apparently overwhelmed by the idea of the name, put their foot down and gave the idea of his being posted there, the kibosh.   Akbar Zeb is no newcomer to politics, in fact you could say he's a pretty big deal. This long-ranging high level diplomat has worked with some of the largest members of world governments, players charged with negotiating the outcome of the world's current events.   He most recently served as High Commissioner Designate of Pakistan to Canada, and prior to that he was the ambassador of Pakistan to South Africa,. He also served in that capacity in Washington from 1983-87, and New Delhi from 1994-2000.   He earlier worked at the Pakistan headquarters as section officer from 1982- 83, director from 1987-94 and director-general from 2000-2003.   Miangul Akbar Zeb, also whose name news agencies sometimes refer to as Zib, was born on 15 February, 1954. He holds a Masters degree. http://salem-news.com/articles/january242010/big_dick.php     _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list  List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 20:03:25 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:03:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 3 mysterious explosions in south Goa Message-ID: 3 mysterious explosions in south Goa PTI, 11 February 2010, 05:10pm IST PANAJI: South Goa district administration swung into action after three mysterious explosions were reported in coastal Canacona taluka here today. Deputy collector Deepak Desai confirmed that they had received the report of the explosions and government machinery was put into action. Locals stated that three blasts of huge magnitude were heard in the coastal belt of Khola, Agonda and Palolem belt which forced the administration and police machinery to swing into action. Policemen in four vans and scores of panchayat level workers were combing the entire area. Desai said they have not found any clue and that there was no report of any damages. The district administration also approached Indian Coast Guard which has begun aerial surveillance over the area. ======== (Any link with Sadhvi Pragya on the above?) From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 20:45:18 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name isNSFW in Arabic References: <781156.86462.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com><39368D5A-80FD-4860-903F-066B28D24D9A@sarai.net> Message-ID: Americans are cool about it. They let Dick rule for 8 years and are likely to erect/elect him in the future to do the damage. And this time to do it more directly than earlier, when Bush took the blame for mischiefs of Dick. Probably, it would not trouble Arabs as long as the word "greatest" was not part of it. But definitely looks like a silly reason for rejecting someone deserving merely for their name. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javed" To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name isNSFW in Arabic >I am sure there are hundreds of Mahalingams working in the Gulf, > especially Saudi Arabia. Wonder if they were ever asked to explain the > meaning of their names in Arabic. (No offense meant). By the way, this > Pakistani diplomat's first name is also Mian-gul, which makes the > entire name relatable to the name of someone we know from south India > - Mahalingam Pushpam... what a small world. > > > > On 2/10/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: >> Dear Kshmendra, >> >> Thanks for posting this delightful item of information. >> >> It's such a pity that knowledge of classical languages like Arabic >> (or, for that matter, Sanskrit) is limited, or then again, maybe not. >> >> The worthies at the Ministry of External Affairs must be thanking >> their stars that Sanskrit is not understood. Because this is what >> guarantees that the eventual or hypothetical deployment as envoy of >> any distinguished personage by the name of Mahalingam (which means >> exactly what Akbar Zeb means in Arabic) who might be currently >> employed by the GOI's MEA, would never be jeopardized. >> >> warmly, >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> On 10-Feb-10, at 7:44 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> >>> "Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic" >>> >>> Posted By David Kenner Wednesday, February 3, 2010 >>> >>> Despite having served for years as a distinguished Pakistani >>> diplomat, Akbar Zeb reportedly cannot receive accreditation as >>> Pakistan's ambassador to Saudi Arabia. The reason, apparently, has >>> nothing to do with his credentials, and everything to do with his >>> name -- which, in Arabic, translates to "biggest dick": >>> >>> "In Saudi Arabia, size does count." >>> >>> According to this Arabic-language article in the Arab Times, >>> Pakistan had previously floated Zeb's name as ambassador to the >>> United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, only to have him rejected for the >>> same reason. One can only assume that submitting Zeb's name to a >>> number of Arabic-speaking countries is some unique form of >>> punishment designed by the Pakistani Foreign Ministry -- or the >>> result of a particularly egregio >>> us cockup. >>> >>> http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/03/ >>> ambassador_at_very_large >>> >>> >>> Jan-24-2010 >>> Tim King Salem-News.com >>> "In Saudi Arabia, size does count." >>> >>> (SALEM, Ore.) - A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected >>> as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zeb, equates >>> to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic. Saudi officials, apparently >>> overwhelmed by the idea of the name, put their foot down and gave >>> the idea of his being posted there, the kibosh. >>> >>> Akbar Zeb is no newcomer to politics, in fact you could say he's a >>> pretty big deal. This long-ranging high level diplomat has worked >>> with some of the largest members of world governments, players >>> charged with negotiating the outcome of the world's current events. >>> >>> He most recently served as High Commissioner Designate of Pakistan >>> to Canada, and prior to that he was the ambassador of Pakistan to >>> South Africa,. He also served in that capacity in Washington from >>> 1983-87, and New Delhi from 1994-2000. >>> >>> He earlier worked at the Pakistan headquarters as section officer >>> from 1982- 83, director from 1987-94 and director-general from >>> 2000-2003. >>> >>> Miangul Akbar Zeb, also whose name news agencies sometimes refer to >>> as Zib, was born on 15 February, 1954. He holds a Masters degree. >>> http://salem-news.com/articles/january242010/big_dick.php >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 21:30:23 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:00:23 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Does the murder of Jamim Shah in Kathmandu implyanything broader? References: Message-ID: <6F402512115B49D098E38A64CFFDA032@shabori> Hello Bibek. Thanks for posting to this list. And yes I am sure your mail is well received. And here are my comments, though by no means expert: Thus far we have nothing but the conspiracy theories to go by. It's very likely that RAW was involved in this killing. But it is also likely that Maoists got him killed. Since this guy was known to be having anti-India agenda, the suspicion for his murder will naturally go towards India. Andn Maoists can rejuvenate their support by taking usual anti-India stand and garner some more support. Again this is just another explanation. We may know the answer in future, or we may not. In the meanwhile, can you inform us about Shah's views about Chinese repression in the areas where Muslims live in large numbers. China has recently browbeaten some countries to hand the dissidents over to them, and many of them have already been hanged. It might be China, and since it takes no nonsense, the government will not allow any public opinion develop that questions China's motives. You will remember that any country that crushed Tibbetans in 2008 as brutally as China did, it was Nepal. Some gangs might have got him killed for ransom, and it is not foregn to south Asian countries. Thugs like Chota Rajan may as easily play in the hands of RAW for money, as they can do for others. How about some other media group? How about ISI getting him murdered to malign and get India demonized? He was a rich guy with sympathies towards fundamentalism, so a likely target for CIA, Black Waters and Israel. Best of luck investigating this matter further. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bibek Paudel" To: "sarai list" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:56 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Does the murder of Jamim Shah in Kathmandu implyanything broader? > Hi all, > I am a reader of this list, from Nepal. I haven't posted anything to > this list so far, so please inform me if my posting doesn't go well > with the expectations of other readers. > > Have you been following the murder of Nepalese media entrepreneur > Jamim Shah in Nepal and > its coverage in Indian media? > > Quoting blog.com.np > http://blog.com.np/2010/02/07/was-jamim-shah-anti-india-with-isi-and-underworld-nexus/ > : > > Shah may be guilty for his alleged anti-India activities on Nepali > soil but that was never verified. Neither we heard of any reports of > India sharing its intelligence about Shah’s anti-India activities with > Nepali authorities. There are many media outlets in Nepal > (particularly newspapers) that are believed to be run (or help run) by > the Indian embassy in Kathmandu because they run not only hagiographic > reports about everything-India but also negative reports about > Pakistan. About Shah too, there were rumors in Kahtmandu about his > anti-India things but again they were never challenged in related > authorities. > > Another post might be helpful too: > http://blog.com.np/2010/02/08/jamim-shah-murder-update-indian-says-he-killed/ > > Here is the most important part: “[The Jamim Shah murder] is a > statement from New Delhi that it will not let off anyone it perceives > as hostile to its national interests.” > > From: > http://blog.com.np/2010/02/09/jamim-shah-murder-a-statement-from-delhi/ > > Here are my opinions: > > RAW might have used Chhota Rajan gang to get him killed. I am not sure > about his criminal > records (noone in Nepal is), but such an act of killing is very bad > and sad. Besides, it only helps those suspicious of India's motives > get more united and stronger in their belief. claiming oneself a > promoter of democracy and acting otherwise is very unfortunate, and it > will weaken sympathizers of better india-nepal relations. it will also > invite greater involvement of US, Israel, China, Pakistan and other > non-state entities in Nepal. Noone wins. > > I hope democracy dissidents in India speak up about it. Like Outlook, > Hindu, Arundhati Roy etc. But i dont think its on their priority. I am > thinking of mailing all of them with a request. Lets see. > > comments? > > Bibek > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From eternalyouth at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 22:31:35 2010 From: eternalyouth at gmail.com (Bibek Paudel) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:46:35 +0545 Subject: [Reader-list] Does the murder of Jamim Shah in Kathmandu implyanything broader? In-Reply-To: <6F402512115B49D098E38A64CFFDA032@shabori> References: <6F402512115B49D098E38A64CFFDA032@shabori> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:45 PM, TaraPrakash wrote: > Hello Bibek. Thanks for posting to this list. And yes I am sure your mail is > well received. And here are my comments, though by no means expert: Hi, thanks for the reply. Your mail certainly highlights some of the possible aspects of the mystery. I am also only guessing here, but here are my opinions: > > Thus far we have nothing but the conspiracy theories to go by. It's very > likely that RAW was involved in this killing. But it is also likely that > Maoists got him killed. Since this guy was known to be having anti-India > agenda, the suspicion for his murder will naturally go towards India. Andn > Maoists can rejuvenate their support by taking usual anti-India stand and > garner some more support. Again this is just another explanation. > Yes, this is possible. I don't know about the history of owning-up by indian underworld dons. But since someone claiming himself to belong to chhota-rajan gang has owned up for the killing, wouldn't they refute the claim if it were false? I don't know about this, because maybe by account of being an irresponsible gang, they wouldn't be caring much too. > We may know the answer in future, or we may not. In the meanwhile, can you > inform us about Shah's views about Chinese repression in the areas where > Muslims live in large numbers. China has recently browbeaten some countries > to hand the dissidents over to them, and many of them have already been > hanged. Shah wasn't a very intelligent person, so noone here cared much about his opinions. He didn't have (or offer) opinions on many things anyway. He used to say that he doesnt feel like a Muslim, since he grew up in a very old locality of Kathmandu surrounded all over by temples, having 99% hindu friends, and getting married to an ethnic Newar girl (traditionally either hindu or buddhist) from Kathmandu. > > It might be China, and since it takes no nonsense, the government will not > allow any public opinion develop that questions China's motives. You will > remember that any country that crushed Tibbetans in 2008 as brutally as > China did, it was Nepal. Yes, Nepalese authority crushed Tibetan protests in Kathmandu. Most of it was unnecessary, but for a country like Nepal, I think we need to look deeper. Nepal faces pressure from both India and China to control activities against their interests. Sadly, both anti-india and anti-china elements are active in Nepal, albeit without much public knowledge. For example, Nepal is a center for all sorts of free-tibet activists ranging from America to Dharmashala. Some decades ago, an armed rebellion for Free-Tibet run by the CIA for many years was unmasked only after a CIA plane landed in a district bordering Tibet. The rebellion was crushed by Nepal army later. > > Some gangs might have got him killed for ransom, and it is not foregn to > south Asian countries. This is possible. I hope the police will uncover the mystery. If such groups are involved, I think they should be uncovered pretty easily as opposed to the involvement of more powerful forces. > Thugs like Chota Rajan may as easily play in the hands of RAW for money, as > they can do for others. How about some other media group? Not heard of threats to other media groups so far. But an owner of the newly opened National TV is said to be on the hit-list of Rajan gang (unconfirmed). However, he is under police custody for charges of involvement in printing fake Indian currency. > > How about ISI getting him murdered to malign and get India demonized? He was > a rich guy with sympathies towards fundamentalism, so a likely target for > CIA, Black Waters and Israel. Again, nothing like this can be denied. It is (now) rumored that he has 3 passports, which if true, is sign of something ulterior. He might have criminal links, true. But, nothing of that kind was known so far. Even charges of being anti-India don't look very fair to people here because neither his TV nor newspapers did so in an unfair way. The Indian embassy would repeatedly charge him of being an ISI agent, and he said that the Indian pressure was a reason for his TV license getting delayed. His media organization was on the brink of collapse because of financial difficulties and his employees say that he was often seen weeping after having a hard time defending charges of being anti-nationalist. They say that he wasnt able to pay his employees in time and it looked unnatural for someone receiving funding as claimed by Indian intelligence sources. But, here are a few things that are possibly unknown to many in India. 1. Prior to Shah's murder a number of people said to be anti-India were murdered in some towns bordering India. All of the murders (including Shah) were done by Indian nationals (which doesnt mean that they could have been used by less suspected parties, including China, as you hinted). 2. His TV wasn't the one to start the Hritik Roshan scandal. His TV wasn't in existence then, it started only a year later. Also, I think Indian newspapers' view that killing of someone anti India in Nepal is the right thing is fundamentally wrong. That means anyone anti-Tamil or anti Sinhala in India also needs to be killed. I think Indian newspapers' coverage of their neighborhood is very immature and possibly harmful to India's interest. I have long harbored a suspicion that they get such stories from Indian foreign ministry of Intelligence sources themselves. I have stayed in India for about 4 years, and this belief hasnt changed. 3. I have read many times in the recent months about the need to review RAW's role and existence itself, especially following the Mumbai blasts. Maybe people inside RAW had to show something to prove their efficiency and worth. 4. The government of Nepal and its leaders have to share all the blame though. They have not been serious about any important issues at all, and have been so inefficient and weak that it is very easy for any party to play against Nepal's interests. It hasnt been able to control activities of non-state actors including anti-Indian and anti-chinese ones. Big failure. Bibek From eternalyouth at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 22:35:16 2010 From: eternalyouth at gmail.com (Bibek Paudel) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:50:16 +0545 Subject: [Reader-list] Does the murder of Jamim Shah in Kathmandu implyanything broader? In-Reply-To: References: <6F402512115B49D098E38A64CFFDA032@shabori> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Bibek Paudel wrote: > > But, here are a few things that are possibly unknown to many in India. > 1. Prior to Shah's murder a number of people said to be anti-India > were murdered in some towns bordering India. All of the murders > (including Shah) were done by Indian nationals (which doesnt mean that > they could have been used by less suspected parties, including China, > as you hinted). ^^^ Correction: I meant to say "which doesnt mean that they couldn't have been used by less suspected parties" Bibek From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 01:32:24 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:32:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Centre_endorses_Omar=92s_red_carpe?= =?windows-1252?q?t_to_PoK_militants?= Message-ID: <6353c691002111202j66310f4ek3f0f7aa3d42365ec@mail.gmail.com> *Centre endorses Omar’s red carpet to PoK militants* *Pioneer News Service | New Delhi* *Surrender policy sparks row, Pandits up in arms* In a controversial move that could open the floodgate for return of PoK-based militants to Kashmir Valley, Home Ministry on Thursday endorsed the new surrender policy mooted by Jammu & Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah. Angry over the Government’s red carpet to the militants, Kashmiri Pandits have said it was unfortunate that the terrorists who drove them out of the Valley at gun point were welcomed by the Government while they are still homeless. Although the Government records have details of only 800 such youth who crossed over to PoK during last two decades, the policy could pave way for return of thousands of militants, whose identity maybe difficult to establish. “The Government is ready to welcome Kashmiris who had gone to PoK if they are ready to return after giving up militancy, said Home Minister P Chidambaram. “The idea is accepted... This idea must now be translated into a scheme,” the Home Minister said, adding it was one of the recommendations of the Working Groups appointed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Chidambaram said their return could be facilitated through a scheme which will entail identification, screening, travel, debriefing, rehabilitation and reintegration. Noting that “PoK is actually an Indian territory,” he said the Government “should facilitate the return” of those who had gone across the Line of Control for “some reasons”. Former Chief Minister and Union Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad had raised objections at Omar’s policy of welcoming the militants. Azad had already apprehended the genuineness of the militants who wanted to come back and said this decision would “create troubles”, if some people with ill motives came back to India. According to Home Ministry sources, the Centre would ask the J&K Government to prepare detailed drafts on case-to-case basis about persons willing to surrender. “We are agreeing in principle to the policy mooted by the J&K Government. But it is for them to prepare the details. A lot of issues have to be considered. The State has to submit the antecedents of persons coming forward to surrender,” he said. “Apart from the rehabilitation schemes, the J&K Government has asked to submit the entire case history of each person who are willing to come back. There is no exact data of the persons who crossed the border. Some estimation peg it to 800, others multiply it be four. Some people have already settled there, after marrying local girls. All these issues had to be studied thoroughly after getting the State’s report,” sources said. Meanwhile, Union Government’s move has not gone down well with the Kashmiri Pandits, living in exile for over two decades. Condemning the stand, prominent Kashmiri Pandit leader Dr Agnishekhar, convener of Panun Kashmir, said, “Government of India is virtually playing with the fire by opening floodgates for trained militants to return to Kashmir.” He said, “It is clear from their stand that they are more worried about rehabilitating perpetrators of terror than rehabilitating victims of terror in the State.” “We need to wake up and oppose this sinister design tooth and nail as it is going to be a disastrous move,” Dr Agnishekar said warning Centre against indulging in such misadventurism at this crucial juncture. He said if the Centre would allow these militants to come back they would only wreak havoc on the security establishment and threaten the whole sovereignty and integrity of India.” What brownie points these political leaders are going to score and for whom, another Kashmiri leader wondered. Another leading voice of Kashmiri Pandits, Dr Ajay Churangoo said, “When security experts have been consistently warning against upsurge in militant activities from across the border it is shocking to note that policy-makers in New Delhi are still ready to indulge in these machinations which are part of bigger sinister design.” Churangoo said, “Is there any mechanism available which fully guarantees that a person camping in PoK for over 20 years and had received arms training in terrorist training camps would quietly settle down on his return and would guarantee that he would not pose a security risk.” Meanwhile, Virender Gupta President Jammu State Morcha strongly criticised the move and lashed out at the Chief Minister and his party, National Conference, for failing to control the situation in Kashmir. Gupta said, “Is the Chief Minister ready to take the responsibility that his suggestions if implemented would not boomerang and would not worsen the security situation?” From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 08:32:42 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:02:42 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Does the murder of Jamim Shah in Kathmandu implyanything broader? References: <6F402512115B49D098E38A64CFFDA032@shabori> Message-ID: Hello Bibek. Thanks for adding to the information and your suggestions at the end of the mail are definitely worth considering. Your opinion about Indian newspaper may be true but I am not too sure about it. I am not in India so hardly read newspapers. The only one I care about is The Hindu. I can bet that Hindu will never support such covert activities carried out by intelligence agencies. I forgot to offer my condolence on death of a Nepali national and a human being. It was sad and bad. Regards I----- Original Message ----- From: "Bibek Paudel" To: "TaraPrakash" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Does the murder of Jamim Shah in Kathmandu implyanything broader? > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:45 PM, TaraPrakash > wrote: >> Hello Bibek. Thanks for posting to this list. And yes I am sure your mail >> is >> well received. And here are my comments, though by no means expert: > > Hi, thanks for the reply. Your mail certainly highlights some of the > possible aspects of the mystery. I am also only guessing here, but > here are my opinions: > >> >> Thus far we have nothing but the conspiracy theories to go by. It's very >> likely that RAW was involved in this killing. But it is also likely that >> Maoists got him killed. Since this guy was known to be having anti-India >> agenda, the suspicion for his murder will naturally go towards India. >> Andn >> Maoists can rejuvenate their support by taking usual anti-India stand and >> garner some more support. Again this is just another explanation. >> > > Yes, this is possible. I don't know about the history of owning-up by > indian underworld dons. But since someone claiming himself to belong > to chhota-rajan gang has owned up for the killing, wouldn't they > refute the claim if it were false? I don't know about this, because > maybe by account of being an irresponsible gang, they wouldn't be > caring much too. > >> We may know the answer in future, or we may not. In the meanwhile, can >> you >> inform us about Shah's views about Chinese repression in the areas where >> Muslims live in large numbers. China has recently browbeaten some >> countries >> to hand the dissidents over to them, and many of them have already been >> hanged. > > Shah wasn't a very intelligent person, so noone here cared much about > his opinions. He didn't have (or offer) opinions on many things > anyway. He used to say that he doesnt feel like a Muslim, since he > grew up in a very old locality of Kathmandu surrounded all over by > temples, having 99% hindu friends, and getting married to an ethnic > Newar girl (traditionally either hindu or buddhist) from Kathmandu. > >> >> It might be China, and since it takes no nonsense, the government will >> not >> allow any public opinion develop that questions China's motives. You will >> remember that any country that crushed Tibbetans in 2008 as brutally as >> China did, it was Nepal. > > Yes, Nepalese authority crushed Tibetan protests in Kathmandu. Most of > it was unnecessary, but for a country like Nepal, I think we need to > look deeper. Nepal faces pressure from both India and China to control > activities against their interests. Sadly, both anti-india and > anti-china elements are active in Nepal, albeit without much public > knowledge. For example, Nepal is a center for all sorts of free-tibet > activists ranging from America to Dharmashala. Some decades ago, an > armed rebellion for Free-Tibet run by the CIA for many years was > unmasked only after a CIA plane landed in a district bordering Tibet. > The rebellion was crushed by Nepal army later. > >> >> Some gangs might have got him killed for ransom, and it is not foregn to >> south Asian countries. > > This is possible. I hope the police will uncover the mystery. If such > groups are involved, I think they should be uncovered pretty easily as > opposed to the involvement of more powerful forces. > >> Thugs like Chota Rajan may as easily play in the hands of RAW for money, >> as >> they can do for others. How about some other media group? > > Not heard of threats to other media groups so far. But an owner of the > newly opened National TV is said to be on the hit-list of Rajan gang > (unconfirmed). However, he is under police custody for charges of > involvement in printing fake Indian currency. > >> >> How about ISI getting him murdered to malign and get India demonized? He >> was >> a rich guy with sympathies towards fundamentalism, so a likely target for >> CIA, Black Waters and Israel. > > Again, nothing like this can be denied. > > It is (now) rumored that he has 3 passports, which if true, is sign of > something ulterior. He might have criminal links, true. But, nothing > of that kind was known so far. Even charges of being anti-India don't > look very fair to people here because neither his TV nor newspapers > did so in an unfair way. The Indian embassy would repeatedly charge > him of being an ISI agent, and he said that the Indian pressure was a > reason for his TV license getting delayed. His media organization was > on the brink of collapse because of financial difficulties and his > employees say that he was often seen weeping after having a hard time > defending charges of being anti-nationalist. They say that he wasnt > able to pay his employees in time and it looked unnatural for someone > receiving funding as claimed by Indian intelligence sources. > > But, here are a few things that are possibly unknown to many in India. > 1. Prior to Shah's murder a number of people said to be anti-India > were murdered in some towns bordering India. All of the murders > (including Shah) were done by Indian nationals (which doesnt mean that > they could have been used by less suspected parties, including China, > as you hinted). > 2. His TV wasn't the one to start the Hritik Roshan scandal. His TV > wasn't in existence then, it started only a year later. Also, I think > Indian newspapers' view that killing of someone anti India in Nepal is > the right thing is fundamentally wrong. That means anyone anti-Tamil > or anti Sinhala in India also needs to be killed. I think Indian > newspapers' coverage of their neighborhood is very immature and > possibly harmful to India's interest. I have long harbored a suspicion > that they get such stories from Indian foreign ministry of > Intelligence sources themselves. I have stayed in India for about 4 > years, and this belief hasnt changed. > 3. I have read many times in the recent months about the need to > review RAW's role and existence itself, especially following the > Mumbai blasts. Maybe people inside RAW had to show something to prove > their efficiency and worth. > 4. The government of Nepal and its leaders have to share all the blame > though. They have not been serious about any important issues at all, > and have been so inefficient and weak that it is very easy for any > party to play against Nepal's interests. It hasnt been able to control > activities of non-state actors including anti-Indian and anti-chinese > ones. Big failure. > > Bibek From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 09:34:06 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:34:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Schools wait and watch over effectiveness of CCE: Article by Meera Srinivasan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From http://beta.thehindu.com/news/cities/Chennai/article103975.ece Standard IX students in Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) schools are gearing up for their first major summative assessment for the year, as part of the Continuous and Comprehensive Evaluation (CCE). Earlier this academic year, the CCE was introduced for Standard IX, in which students’ performance is evaluated using formative and summative assessment. The move followed the Ministry of Human Resource Development’s decision to make school education less stressful for students. Some schools think it might be a tad early to comment on the effectiveness of the CCE. “We are still getting used to the system and we will be in a better position to comment on it next year. I am sure it will work out well,” says Kanti Ramakrishnan, Vice-Principal, Chinmaya Vidyala, Taylor’s Road. According to Ajit Prasad Jain, Senior Principal of Bhavan’s Rajaji Vidyashram, examination-related anxiety and stress among students has come down considerably. “Many think that the CCE is just about unit tests, but that’s not true. Assessment is based on interaction with the teacher, project work, homework, and so on,” he explains. Emphasising the need for mentoring and monitoring in the system, the Board recently held a training programme for principals. “We would, in turn, train other principals and teachers in the region,” says Mr. Jain, who attended the training programme in New Delhi. However, a recent circular from the CBSE to schools has also raised some questions. The note talks of the need for uniformity in summative assessment across schools. As a result, the CBSE has prepared question papers for various subjects and mailed the CDs to schools. While Mr. Jain says uniformity would help schools, heads such as C. Satish, Senior Principal, R.M.K. Group of Schools, wonder if it is another, indirect, way of conducting a board examination. “We’ve had formative assessment so far, but if it’s going to be a common, final examination as part of the summative assessment component, is it not like any other board examination?” Mr. Satish asks. Teachers are forced to do a lot of clerical work documenting students’ performances systematically, he addssuggesting that the Board strengthen its teacher-training processes. “We need regular follow-up meetings with the Board, so teachers can discuss the challenges they face. There are talks about introducing the system for Standard XI. The present challenges have to be addressed first.” On whether the CBSE had planned to collect feedback on the CCE, its Regional Officer N. Nagaraju said the CDs with the examination questions were being sent directly from New Delhi. “We will speak to the schools after the examinations,” he said. From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 10:46:00 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:46:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 3 mysterious explosions in south Goa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <341380d01002112116u3a918f69l5f4eb333be2133e4@mail.gmail.com> Navy involved in firing exercise? HERALD CORRESPONDENT CANACONA, FEB 11 Was the Navy involved in firing exercises in the Arabian Sea off Majali in Karwar? While some youth from Loliem seem to think so, the Navy has claimed that there were no firing exercises in the area, but assured to look into the matter. Some Loliem youth, who were waiting along the Majali coast in neighboring Karwar to go on a fishing sojourn, reportedly noticed a fighter plane hovering in the sea before dropping three objects one after the other. They heard a huge sound and saw water shooting to a height of about 20 meters. The incident reportedly took place at about 12.30 pm, around the similar time when people in Canacona heard the mysterious explosions. “We noticed a Navy plane taking rounds at a distance of about 3-4 kms from the Majali coast. Suddenly, we heard a huge sound and saw water shooting up in the sky, before two other objects were also dropped from the plane”, said the three youth, who witnessed the alleged incident from the Majali shore. Interestingly, the three youth, who were earlier unaware of the sounds heard in many parts of Canacona and elsewhere in the State, narrated to the people what they saw off the Majali coast almost at the same time. “We heard the sound and saw water shooting up at three different spots one after the other, after the plane dropped two other objects in the sea”, said another youth. “But we don’t known if it is the same sound what people at different places in Goa heard, but it was almost about the same time”, said the youth. VASCO REPORTER ADDS: Navy PRO Commandant M C Joshi said, “if fishermen have seen some aircraft dropping explosive things, we will look into the matter”. “As far as Navy is concerned, there was no firing exercise. But, even if an exercise was conducted, naval ammunition cannot create such a sound that could be heard along the coast from Canacona to Mormugao”, said Joshi. “Navy does not have such ammunition that its sound can be heard nearly at a distance of about 40 kms when dropped in the sea”, said Joshi. “We are trying to find out what exactly happened, as we have asked the concerned pilots for details of sorties from the air squadron”, added Joshi. Naval sources, however, did not dismiss the possibility of a ‘sonic boom’, which could explain the mysterious explosions. “There are possibilities that such sounds can be heard when an aircraft breaks the sound barrier while flying at supersonic speeds and at a certain height from the sea. With a sonic boom, it is possible that window panes and other glass material on land could get damaged and the sound of the sonic boom can be heard across a distance of many kilometres”, a Naval official told Herald. Later at night, PRO Commander Joshi confirmed that a Naval aircraft MIG 29 was on a routine sortie near Majali off Karwar. “However, the aircraft did not contain any explosive material that could have been dropped into the sea”, Com Joshi said. On 2/11/10, Javed wrote: > 3 mysterious explosions in south Goa > PTI, 11 February 2010, 05:10pm IST > > PANAJI: South Goa district administration swung into action after > three mysterious explosions were reported in coastal Canacona taluka > here today. > > Deputy collector Deepak Desai confirmed that they had received the > report of the explosions and government machinery was put into action. > > Locals stated that three blasts of huge magnitude were heard in the > coastal belt of Khola, Agonda and Palolem belt which forced the > administration and police machinery to swing into action. > > Policemen in four vans and scores of panchayat level workers were > combing the entire area. > > Desai said they have not found any clue and that there was no report > of any damages. > > The district administration also approached Indian Coast Guard which > has begun aerial surveillance over the area. > ======== > > (Any link with Sadhvi Pragya on the above?) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anoopkheri at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 14:55:10 2010 From: anoopkheri at gmail.com (anoop kumar) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:55:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "The Caste of Our Class Room" (13th Feb @ 2.15PM by Insight Study Circle) Message-ID: * * *Insight Study Circle * * * *Invites you for a panel discussion on * * * *“The caste of our class room”* * * *Democratizing Indian University System: Dalits in Academia* * * * * Dalit faculties in Indian Universities and colleges is a growing tribe. Yet it is a new phenomenon in a system that thrives on exclusion and reflects monopolizing tendencies of couple of privileged caste groups in India. How does the system respond towards the presence of Dalit faculties in the campuses? What are the experiences of these faculties as teachers and scholars, belonging to a particular identity? Given the level of prejudice and discrimination against Dalit students too, particularly in higher education, the role of Dalit faculties assumes huge importance. In a space where the credentials of Dalit students and even their humanity are always called into question, the need of mentoring and affirmation from someone who has ‘crossed the barrier’ is crucial. In this context Insight Study Circle invites you for a panel discussion.** * * *Discussants: * * * *Bodhi DSR *Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS), Mumbai *P. Srinivas *English and Foreign Languages University (EFLU), Hyderabad *Kaushal Panwar *Delhi University *Subhash Arya *Indian School of Mines, Dhanbad Moderated by *Ranjit Thankappan* from Indira Gandhi National Open University (IGNOU), New Delhi** * * *Date**: *13th February (Saturday) * * *Time:* 2.15 pm – 4.15 pm *Venue: *Indian Social Institute (ISI), Lodi Road, New Delhi** * * * * -- "Rosa sat so Martin could walk; Martin walked so Obama could run, Obama ran so your children can fly" From blauloretta at yahoo.com Fri Feb 12 20:03:34 2010 From: blauloretta at yahoo.com (Gustaff Harriman Iskandar) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:33:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Internet Sensorship in Indonesia In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0912270407r32ff13b2qd461e01717fb77be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <450692.24026.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This might be a bit bizzare for you as we have reaching a time of openness and connectivity over the internet age. As you might have noticed that Indonesian government is planning to put more attention on internet control and censorship. On 25th of March, 2008 they have released new law on information and electronic transaction act (UU IT), which opens possibility to limit and criminalize internet user. Last year, a women named Prita Mulyasari has been accused and sent to jail because of this bill. Fortunately, internet user in Indonesia has been able to rise public pressure, were Prita is finally free after a very long trial in December 2009. On a writings entitled From War-net to Net-war: The Internet and Resistance Identities in Indonesia (Merlyna Lim, Elsevier Science Ltd., 2003), Merlyna Lim stated that “The Internet, which came to Indonesia during the early phase of the political crisis in the 1990’s, economically and politically has risen to become an alternative media that is no longer under state control, thus bolstering civil society in its resistance to state and corporate domination.” I supposed we all agree that internet is critically important to strengthen civil society as it is an important tool for freedom of expression and access to information and knowledge. Just today, I have received news from my friend telling me that our government have plan to initiate a Council for Internet Censoship. I've tried to translate the page using google translate as it is written in Bahasa Indonesia: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postel.go.id%2Fupdate%2Fid%2Fbaca_info.asp%3Fid_info%3D1422&sl=id&tl=en I know this has been an issues for some period of time, especially in terms of repressive control over the internet and rights to have access to information and knowledge. I hope all of you can circulate this information and rising public support for free access for internet in Indonesia.  Viva la Liberte! - Gustaff From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 20:30:51 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:30:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jeevika 2010: Asia Livelihood Documentary Festival -- Call for Entries deadline 30 June 2010 Message-ID: Details here: http://jeevika.org/jeevika-2010/call-for-entry-2010.pdf From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 20:35:56 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:35:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Philosophy of Education Talks @ Tata Institute of Social Sciences, 18 Feb Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: jennifer thomas ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Padma Sarangapani Date: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 3:11 PM Subject: Two Philosophy of Education Talks 18 Feb To: padma sarangapani *TATA INSTITUTE OF SOCIAL SCIENCES* *SCHOOL OF SOCIAL SCIENCES* *Centre for Studies in Sociology of Education* *M.A. IN EDUCATION (ELEMENTARY) PROGRAMME* Invites you to Two Philosophy of Education talks * * Dr. Christopher Winch *For Philosophy of Education in Teacher Education* and Dr. David Carr *Liberal Education, Art and Emotion* *February 18, 2010, 3.00-5.30 pm (Tea at 2.30 pm)* * * *Class Room No. V, TISS Main Campus* * * Dr. G.G. Wankhede Chairperson, CSSE, will chair the session Dr. Christopher Winch is Professor of Educational Philosophy and Policy, Head of Department, Department of Education and Professional Studies, King’s College, London, and current Chair of the Philosophy of Education Society of Great Brittain.. His research interests include educational policy, quality and accountability and vocational knowledge. Recent books: Philosophy and Educational Policy: A critical introduction, Abingdon: Routledge-Falmer. 2004. Dr. David Carr is Professor The Moray House of School of, Education, University of Edinburgh, His research interests include Philosophy of Education, ethics, virtue ethics and moral education; the nature of professionalism and professional ethics; knowledge, education and curriculum theory; aesthetics; arts education (especially dance, music and literature); education of the emotions. Recent Books: Making Sense of Education: An Introduction to the Philosophy and Theory of Education and Teaching, London: Routledge.2003. *--o**hdb**O**dbf**o---* * * * * * * * * *For Philosophy of Education in Teacher Education* * * *Christopher Winch* *Professor, Kings College, London* The argument of this talk is that the time has come to re-assess the role that Philosophy has to play in the education of teachers, both at the beginning of and during their careers. The argument depends on a view of the character of teachers’ work that will, inevitably, excite disagreement but which is also, I hope to show, highly plausible, particularly in the context in which education currently takes place. The claim is that the ability to think philosophically is an indispensable component of a teacher’s capacity for professional judgment. To substantiate this claim it will be necessary to explain what is meant by ‘professional judgement’ and why teachers should have it. Reasons why philosophy of education went into decline within teacher education are examined and ways of avoiding such a fate in the future are suggested. * * * * *Liberal Education, Art and Emotion* * * *David Carr* *Professor, University of Edinburgh* Does literature and other arts have a significant place in education? Much depends for an answer to this question, on what one *means* by education – but also on what one takes the role of literature and arts in human life and association to be. The difficulty that educational and other philosophers have encountered in defining the meaning of ‘education’ is that the term clearly has (at least in English) diverse senses: the common use of education refers to the process of schooling as opposed to ‘liberal education’. The two need not be incompatible, however the educational value of literature and arts may be harder to appreciate on a more instrumental view of education than on a liberal view. Central to the liberal educational tradition is the idea that education is a matter of initiation into mind-expanding forms of knowledge or enquiry that are worthwhile in themselves because they assist the personal development of agents by helping them to understand their world. One possible problem with modern liberal educational senses of mind and knowledge – for which they have frequently been criticised – is that they seem to depend on somewhat narrow theoretical or ‘intellectual’ senses of mind and knowledge. However, if we return to an older philosophical conception of mind and moral development – in the work of the ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle – there seems more scope to accommodate human development that is more than just ‘intellectual’. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sat Feb 13 11:00:17 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:00:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Need information on/contacts of old age homes and senior citizens' groups in Mumbai and Pune Message-ID: Hi I'm looking for information on/contacts of old age homes and senior citizens' groups in Mumbai and Pune. This is for a project that friends are working on. Would appreciate any help in the form of web links, email addresses or contact numbers of individuals and groups. Thanks Chintan From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 13 15:27:51 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:57:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Internet Sensorship in Indonesia In-Reply-To: <450692.24026.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <314234.20416.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Gustaff   (This not specific to your mail on Indonesia)   There are websites accessible in India that have child-ponography. Do I want them censored? Yes I do.   There are websites accessible in India where the most horrendously divisive hate-propagation is done by the adherents of one religion towards some other. Do I want them censored? Yes I do.   These are just two examples.   The making available of any 'particular' freedom without any limits on it by 'common agreement' is the providing of a recipe  for destroying civilised interaction.   Every country (I think) has a regulatory environment for Print, Radio, Television. It is illogical and foolish (in my opinion) to think that the Internet can escape coming under a regulatory environment sooner than later.   One can only hope that the 'service providers' whether of Print, or of Radio, or of Television or of the Internet, self-regulate themselves in the content they offer/allow rather than being dictated to by the State.   Kshmendra --- On Fri, 2/12/10, Gustaff Harriman Iskandar wrote: From: Gustaff Harriman Iskandar Subject: [Reader-list] Internet Sensorship in Indonesia To: "sarai reader" Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:03 PM This might be a bit bizzare for you as we have reaching a time of openness and connectivity over the internet age. As you might have noticed that Indonesian government is planning to put more attention on internet control and censorship. On 25th of March, 2008 they have released new law on information and electronic transaction act (UU IT), which opens possibility to limit and criminalize internet user. Last year, a women named Prita Mulyasari has been accused and sent to jail because of this bill. Fortunately, internet user in Indonesia has been able to rise public pressure, were Prita is finally free after a very long trial in December 2009. On a writings entitled From War-net to Net-war: The Internet and Resistance Identities in Indonesia (Merlyna Lim, Elsevier Science Ltd., 2003), Merlyna Lim stated that “The Internet, which came to Indonesia during the early phase of the political crisis in the 1990’s, economically and politically has risen to become an alternative media that is no longer under state control, thus bolstering civil society in its resistance to state and corporate domination.” I supposed we all agree that internet is critically important to strengthen civil society as it is an important tool for freedom of expression and access to information and knowledge. Just today, I have received news from my friend telling me that our government have plan to initiate a Council for Internet Censoship. I've tried to translate the page using google translate as it is written in Bahasa Indonesia: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postel.go.id%2Fupdate%2Fid%2Fbaca_info.asp%3Fid_info%3D1422&sl=id&tl=en I know this has been an issues for some period of time, especially in terms of repressive control over the internet and rights to have access to information and knowledge. I hope all of you can circulate this information and rising public support for free access for internet in Indonesia.  Viva la Liberte! - Gustaff       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ravikant at sarai.net Sat Feb 13 19:58:14 2010 From: ravikant at sarai.net (ravikant) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:58:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ansari Memorial Lecture by Shahid Amin Message-ID: <4B76B6FE.3030100@sarai.net> You are invited to the Ansari Memorial Lecture for 2010. It is scheduled* for 15 February at 11 am in the conference hall of the FTK Centre for Information Technology (next to Ansari auditorium). * Dr. Rudrangshu Mukherjee will be in chair. *The lecture is titled: 'A Record for all Languages: George Grierson, Ram Gharib Chaube and the Making of the Great Linguistic Survey of India'. *With some audio clippings from the 1920s*. *ravikant* * From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sat Feb 13 22:33:25 2010 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:03:25 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] NFF submits proposals to Jairam Ramesh Message-ID: <3457ce861002130903r14e843f0v6ae90a719afabcdb@mail.gmail.com> NFF submits proposals to Jairam Ramesh Express News ServiceFirst Published : 13 Feb 2010 09:28:57 AM ISTLast Updated : THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: National Fishworkers Forum (NFF) has submitted a proposal to Union Minister of State for Environment and Forests Jairam Ramesh regarding measures to be taken to improve CRZ notification of 1991. NFF secretary T.Peter, who is also the president of the Kerala Swathanthra Matsyathozhilali Federation (KSMTF), said in the proposal submitted to the Minister that Swaminathan Committee report had strongly endorsed many of the demands raised by fishermen and environmentalists during the anti-Costal Zone Management struggle. The report has set a new broad-based agenda for the conservation of the coast and the protection of habitat and livelihoods of fishing community, he said. Peter welcomed the suggestion of the Swaminathan panel for a separate piece of legislation for the protection of rights of fishing communities. However, the draft Bill, which is already in circulation, is a poor adaptation of the Scheduled Tribes and Other Traditional Forest Dwellers (Recognition of Forest Rights) Act, 2006. The draft Bill does not consider the specificities of fisheries and fishing communities and the ground realities, he said. The 25 amendments made so far lack legitimacy as most were made without eliciting public response and were often meant to weaken the notification, he alleged. He said that the state CZM Authorities (CZMA) should be strengthened with technical and administrative human resources. The interests of the fishing community are not normally represented in CZMAs. So, more representatives of the fishing community or fishermen’s organisation had to be included in the CZMAs, Peter said. A district-level mechanism under the District Collector should be set up for the implementation, enforcement and monitoring of the CRZ notification, he said. He demanded the setting up of a task force for the formulation of methods and guidelines for the implementation and enforcement of CRZ notification, 1991. The task force should have representation from fishing community organisations. He said that the rights of fishing communities to the coast had to be recognised. All areas of fishing communities in the CRZ that have been encroached upon should be cleared of encroachments and handed over to the fishing community. All existing houses of fisherfolk within 0-500 m should be regularised. The non-fisherfolk settled within 0-50 m should be immediately evacuated, he said. The fisherfolk within 0-50 m should be rehabilitated within the CRZ area. Houses belonging to fishing communities in the CRZ should not be transferred or sold to non-fishing communities, Peter said. From aliens at dataone.in Sun Feb 14 11:29:49 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:29:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER Message-ID: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> Problem starts with SRK statement to take Pak cricketer in IPL. Shivsena was right by opposing SRK statement, but there way of opposing SRK film was wrong. Actually by this way they help in the public belief that SRK is right by making such wrong statement. We can never fight pak sponsored terrorism unless we change our mindset to favor pak people may be cricketer, singer, artists or others. Actually by ignoring them, It will create pressure on pak authorities to control terrorists. Our mindset has become pseudo-secularists and all the media also does the same thing. Sorry to tell but with this mindset we can never fight terrorism by any means and suffer with it indefinitely! From ravikant at sarai.net Sun Feb 14 13:25:19 2010 From: ravikant at sarai.net (ravikant) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:25:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ansari Memorial Lecture by Shahid Amin In-Reply-To: References: <4B76B6FE.3030100@sarai.net> Message-ID: <4B77AC67.40803@sarai.net> Apologies to Harsh Kapoor and others. The venue is Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi, India. regards ravikant Harsh Kapoor wrote: > where on earth is FTK Centre for Information Technology (next to > Ansari auditorium). A street address, City, Country please.? > > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:58 PM, ravikant wrote: > >> You are invited to the Ansari Memorial Lecture for 2010. It is >> scheduled* for 15 February at 11 am in the conference hall of the FTK >> Centre for Information Technology (next to Ansari auditorium). * Dr. >> Rudrangshu Mukherjee will be in chair. >> >> *The lecture is titled: 'A Record for all Languages: George Grierson, >> Ram Gharib Chaube and the Making of the Great Linguistic Survey of >> India'. *With some audio clippings from the 1920s*. >> >> *ravikant* >> * >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From aiindex at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 14:37:16 2010 From: aiindex at gmail.com (Harsh Kapoor) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Global Petition to Amnesty Interntional: Please Sign Now Message-ID: Calling on all democrats, human rights defenders and womens rights activists from around the world to Sign the Global Petition to Amnesty International: Restoring the Integrity of Human Rights http://www.human-rights-for-all.org/spip.php?article15 From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 15:15:10 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:15:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER In-Reply-To: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> References: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin jee My views on the above subject: 1) India is a democratic country, and one thing we should accept is that we have people believing in different kinds of views in this country. Hence, everybody has a right to express his/her view, whether it be Shiv Sena or Shahrukh Khan. Bal Thackeray is within his right to believe and say that Shahrukh is a traitor, and similarly Shahrukh has a right to say that IPL should have Pakistani cricketers. 2) You are right. Shiv Sena has no right to indulge in violence. One may have an opinion and may dislike some person, but that doesn't give him/her the right to go around killing that person or threaten that person. That is unacceptable and should be thoroughly condemned. 3) India (meaning: The Indian State) has been pseudo-secular right since independence. The day Mahatma Gandhi died, India has been secular only in name and not in deed. There are missiles in this country which are named after Hindu gods or Hindu mythological characters: a symbol of Hindu appeasement. There are pogroms in this country organized to achieve political ends by parties which profess themselves to be secular and call others as communal, resulting in the deaths of innocent people just because they belonged to a particular religion. And then there is worst kind of vote-bank politics practised in the country whereby politicians indulge in creating hatred or portraying special attention only on particular communities (while actually doing nothing), resulting in such pseudo-secularism running through the veins of the nation. India is a pseudo-secular state. Secularism is nowhere to be seen. We may as well change the preamble of the Indian Constitution. 4) Asking Pakistani singers, musicians or others to leave this country, or ensuring that Pakistani cricketers don't play the IPL, is not going to ensure that Hafeez Sayeed doesn't do anything against India. It will only lead to more hatred between the two countries, and is certainly one of the worst ways to practice diplomacy (if it was one). The people-to-people contacts should actually be enhanced, while also giving repeated diplomatic snubs to the top leadership of Pakistan simply because they are either against the Indian state (and its citizens), or they don't put enough efforts to ensure that those acting against Indian people are put behind bars, or extradited to India. If the Indian govt. seriously thinks about solving the problem, then it should simply undertake two tasks, both humongous ones: 1) Firstly, introduce police, judicial and administrative reforms across the country. Wipe out injustice from the map of India, from the lives of the 1-billion plus population living in this country where many suffer for the actions of a few. Ensure that the law and order machinery works well, and justice is not delayed much, and is certainly not denied. Automatically, terrorism or at least related incidents will go down in no. 2) Strengthen the intelligence network of the country, and introduce covert operations on Pakistani land, whereby only terror group heads (like Hafiz Sayeed) and those acting against India are targetted. Civilians should be completely left alone from such kind of actions. Only when such people realize that there is a cost to their actions, will they stop perpetrating mindless terror on hapless people. Rakesh From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 14 16:42:06 2010 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:12:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER In-Reply-To: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> Message-ID: <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Bipin, I have only one question-is there any Rule of Law in this country or not?If I don't like what you your views are, am I entitled to destroy your house ,office or not allow you to enter into the city? There are more democratic ways for showing dissent or difference of opinion.If someone does the same thing to Shiv Sainiks what they are doing to others then what? Perhaps for the first time some tough stand has been taken by the Govt of Maharashtra that too seems to be because it helps them politically not for any sane reasons. Regards (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Bipin wrote: > From: Bipin > Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER > To: "rajesh" , "viral" > Cc: "sarai-list" > Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 11:29 AM > > > Problem starts with SRK statement to take Pak cricketer in > IPL. Shivsena was > right by opposing SRK statement, but there way of opposing > SRK film was > wrong. Actually by this way they help in the public belief > that SRK is right > by making such wrong statement. We can never fight pak > sponsored terrorism > unless we change our mindset to favor pak people may be > cricketer, singer, > artists or others. Actually by ignoring them, It will > create pressure on pak > authorities to control terrorists. Our mindset has become > pseudo-secularists > and all the media also does the same thing. Sorry to tell > but with this > mindset we can never fight terrorism by any means and > suffer with it > indefinitely! > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 16:45:49 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:45:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER In-Reply-To: <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Malik jee The Maharashtra govt. hasn't done anything of substance to suggest (except for the recent arrest of Shiv Sainiks who were involved in violent activities) that they are serious in taking on this problem. The simplest strategy could have been to house arrest the entire Thackeray clan and keep them in house arrest (without anybody meeting them or their views being heard out) for the next 6 months or so. Things would have improved automatically. Once goons are not heard, things turn to sanity. I do understand that some may comment here, that it's an attack on freedom of speech. To that I would respond by saying that freedom of speech has a limit that it shouldn't result in loss of freedoms or rights of other individuals, and if it does so, then it has to be curtailed, howsoever much we may dislike it. What the Thackerays are indulging in are plain threats, and they should be put behind bars for inciting people to commit violence. Rakesh From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 17:43:37 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:43:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Psychology and Feminism in India - A Questionnaire Message-ID: For her entire mail: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/psychology-and-feminism-in-india-a-questionna Excerpts: I am working on a paper exploring the interface between psychology and feminism in the Indian context. i am interested in learning how psychologists have embraced feminist ideas and whether that has implied any change in practices within the discpline. I also interested in knowing whether psychologists have participated in women's movement (and radical left/ feminist movement) and what were their contributions. I would appreciate if women academics or those working on feminist issues within psychology could fill in this brief questionnaire for me Best Manasi From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 20:03:03 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:03:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Request from a Teach for India fellow: Books, magazines, dictionaries for children aged 6-14 Message-ID: Fiona is a dear friend. Do make time to read her note. And if you can forward this to some of your contacts, even better :) Love Chintan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Fiona Vaz Date: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 7:28 PM Subject: No Subject, Can't think of any... Dear All, I really hope you all are fine. This email is actually an appeal and since I want you to truly understand what I am trying to say I will not take any short cuts. As you may all know I am a fellow with Teach For India. This stated very simply means, I am a teacher. I teach technically 45 children in a low income school in Malad East, and make a difference in the lives of about 300 children in the school, in different ways-big or small. My co teacher and I took nine of our students to Oberoi Mall, Goregaon, the other day. This outing was conducted with the aim of celebrating their success. Each one of the 45 children was given a differentiated goal to achieve, nine of them made it. At the end of a very happy meal J we took them to Crossword Book Store. The sale was on and all the books were out on display. My kids walked in and were truly mesmerized by the sight. The colours, pictures and everything there, was a treat. They picked up books and sat on the carpet, reading. Some understood, while others simply read. This is the thought I had while we were there. If you put any child in a place that offers learning, a child will learn without being *taught*. This store had just too much to give. My class is really colourful. Its walls are plastered with a lot of information. They have storybooks to read, but most of them have been read. We need books. Here is my appeal: In case you people have books, magazines, activity books, picture dictionaries, normal dictionaries, and all or any form of literature suitable for children between 6-14 years of age- those that you have outgrown, those your children have outgrown, your nieces and nephews, and everyone else- please could you pass them over to me? I promise, as long as the material is in English, they will be used. Send me an email on fiona.vaz at gmail.com and we will find a way to collect the gifts. Looking forward to receiving support from you. Cause I truly want to believe that everyone wants to help, but does not know where exactly to start from... Feel free to begin :) Thanks! Fiona. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 20:43:17 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:43:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: Indo-Pak Peace Process : A Mirage?? Message-ID: Hi all This is an article where the idea of the peace process being India and Pakistan has been put under question. I hope others would like to express their views and ideas on the relevance or irrelevance of the peace process between the two nations, and whether it should continue or not accordingly. The article does have a bias, but then who among us doesn't have one? I would like all biases to be there on public display as opposed to being hidden and turning itself into a sinister ploy somewhere some day. Rakesh http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/feb/11/peace-with-pakistan-chasing-a-mirage.htm Peace with Pakistan: Chasing a mirage February 11, 2010 16:24 IST *Peace with Pakistan is not possible in the foreseeable future. Those charged with the responsibility to safeguard our country and its citizens will do well to get a reality check and devise our defence posture accordingly, writes Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd).* The frozen peace process between India and Pakistan is in the news, again. A joint peace campaign has been started by an Indian and a Pakistani news organisation and a Bollywood star has jumped into the fray by regretting that Pakistani cricketers were not picked for the Indian Premier League [ Images]. This ought to provide the Indian government and people an opportunity to take stock. After all the peace process, started in 1999 with Atal Bihari Vajpayee's [ Images] famous bus ride to Lahore [ Images ], is over 10 years old. This is a good occasion to take a dispassionate look at the past 10 years. But before we go into the subject proper, it is necessary to kill the nonsensical notion of 'keeping sports above politics'. The Bollywood star seems to have taken time out from his busy schedule of peddling men's fairness cream and junk food to take up the case of Pakistani cricketers. The usual suspect, the politically-correct media, has jumped on the bandwagon and there is an outcry. This seems to be a case of collective amnesia. For over two decades South Africa [ Images] faced a sports boycott by most of the world. India was an enthusiastic cheerleader in this. Yes, apartheid was wrong, and so is jihadi terrorism! Even as some cry foul over the boycott of Pakistani players, most of the Arab and Muslim world merrily continue their boycott of Israeli sportspersons. Pakistan was at the forefront of boycotting the Moscow [ Images ] Olympics [ Images ] of 1980. My research trip to South Africa recently brought home the fact that sports boycotts hurt, and hurt badly. Why does Pakistani society not introspect and root out the extremists in their midst? The funny part is that our Bollywood star goes on to claim that as per Indian tradition '*Atithi Devo Bhava' *(the guest is like God), he is pained that we are not honouring 'guests' from across our western border. He seems to have forgotten that just about a year and two months ago, 10 'guests' from the same country came to Mumbai [ Images] and massacred nearly 180 people. While the media asks all and sundry, why not ask the thousands of relatives of victims of the 26/11 terror attacks as to what they feel about inviting Pakistani players when even now the mastermind Hafeez Saeed is free to continue to spread his hate ideology? I am quite conscious that I am in the company of a certain political party, but well, even they can be right sometimes. *The root cause* In June-July 2006, I participated in the goodwill mission between Mumbai and Karachi. Within a few days of our return from a goodwill trip to Karachi, the terrorists struck at Mumbai's local trains on July 11, killing more than 200 innocent people. But such is public memory in India that it has been forgotten totally. The pseudo-peaceniks and sundry busybodies now want Indians to forget the 26/11 Mumbai attacks and continue the peace process with Pakistan. Let me hasten to add that we met a lot of people of goodwill and peace in Pakistan. But most of them were part of the elite. There is no doubt about their sincerity as well. But there is a total disconnect between the elite and the masses. The biggest problem in the case of Pakistan is that civil society has very little influence over either the masses or the government. The argument then was and today is -- the jihadis want to derail the peace process, that is why they are doing it but we must continue with normal relations, sporting ties, cultural exchanges et al*. * All this while the Pakistanis deny any connection/responsibility towards these atrocities. I do not buy this argument. If the peace process is not capable of bringing about these minimum conditions, then it is useless. I publicly disassociated myself from this pointless exercise. We have had cultural exchanges, people to people contacts, sports ties and government level talks for over 11 years now (beginning with Vajpayee's Lahore bus trip), yet the terror attacks inspired from across the border have continued. Pakistani state and civil society remain as hostile as ever, barring a minor fringe of the candlelight brigade. Pakistanis are forever in a denial mode. Due to the courage of Tukaram Omble of the Mumbai police, we managed to catch one terrorist alive during the Mumbai attacks. If this did not happen, the Pakistanis would have continued to deny any role in the attacks. What Pakistan needs is a major surgery, while we are trying to apply bandaid. I do not think the Indians who advocate peace and normalcy* *have any understanding of the root cause of all this, that is the systematic brainwashing of their young students with hate for the last 20 years. *The dark forces in Pakistan* At a chief ministers' conference in Delhi [ Images] (February 7), the home minister and prime minister mentioned that there are 'dark forces' working in Pakistan to commit crimes against India and destabilise Pakistan in order to take over that country. What are these forces and how strong and widespread is their influence is an issue that needs serious attention. In 1986, while working for my PhD on regional security, I sought an answer to this very question. I had then got in touch with our military advisor at Islamabad [ Images], Brigadier D K Khanna (who later retired as lieutenant general) to have a look at the kind of history that is being taught to Pakistani schoolchildren. To my eternal gratitude, he sent me the text books published by Hijari Publications Lahore. (*Muajshrati Aloom, prescribed for VI & VII standards and Tehrik E Pakistan by Professor Mohammed Aslam for IX & X standards). *These are in Urdu script, so while posted in Kashmir [ Images] I got them translated and transcribed on tape. The contents were revealing. To cut a story short -- the books had created an image of 'Hindu India' forever scheming the downfall of Islam and Pakistan. This is the staple hate diet on which the post Zia-ul Haq generation has been brought up. Curiously, the fictional history takes the existence of Pakistan* *to the pre-Christ period and omits even Alexander's raid and Porus's heroic resistance. It dismisses a period of 2,000 years between the Mohenjodaro civilisation of 3500 BC and Mohammad bin Qasim's invasion of Sindh as 'myths and legends'. This was Zia's gift to Pakistan. It must be remembered that we are not talking of madrasas -- this is in regular government-run schools! While in the ministry of defence, I wrote about this 'root cause' of Pakistani hostility in a strategic analysis for the ministry in 1988*. *This was possibly noted and taken up at the prime ministers' level in December 1988 and in a declaration in Islamabad by Rajiv Gandhi [ Images] and Benazir Bhutto [ Images ] it was accepted that both* *countries will revise their textbooks to remove biases. It was typical of the Indian weakness of trying to mollify the Pakistanis. For in India, there are no textbooks that denigrate Islam.* *But soon thereafter, both the prime ministers lost power and the whole issue was forgotten. It was only revived in 2004 under General Pervez Musharraf [ Images ]. On my part I took up this issue with Professor A H Nayyar (of Pakistan) at a world peace meet in Melbourne [ Images] in December 1998. To the credit of Professor Nayyar and Professor Parvez Hoodbhoy, they have been working at it. But such is the opposition that I do not know to what extent they have succeeded. In any case, even if the curriculum reform takes place now, the results will be visible only after 20 years. But what is the world to do now with Zia's fanatic children? I do feel vindicated that I raised this issue of effects of this indoctrination with the director (near east and South Asia) at the US National Security Council, Sandy Charles, on July 17, 1991. I had carried a copy of my 1988 article and pleaded with her that in another 20 years time as this generation comes of age, it will threaten not just India but the US as well. The reason to elaborate on all this history is to drive home the point that fanaticism in Pakistan is widespread and deep-rooted. There is no organised effort to counter the ideology of hate. Paraphrasing a Mao dictum, the jihadis survive since they swim in a pond of fanatics. Without the latter, like fish out of water, the jihadis would not survive. What it also means is that even if an odd Hafeez Saeed is prosecuted, the jihadi mentality will survive. It is amusing to how frequently the Indian media talks of 'mastermind' of terror etc. Like the legendary *Ahi Rawan Mahi Rawan*, even if one demon is slayed more will be created from each drop of his blood. This then comes to the surface in a Sohail Tanvir [ Images] interview in which he blames Hindus for the IPL snub or sundry comments by Imran Khan [ Images]. Many well-meaning Indians talk of peace based on a shared culture and history. Does the average Pakistani accept this? Pakistan has assiduously constructed a wholly Islamist view of history, culture and even ethnicity over the last 60 years. Do the people dreaming of *'Aman Ki Asha'* even realise this? Peace with Pakistan will remain a mirage for the foreseeable future. Those charged with the responsibility to safeguard our country and its citizens will do well to get a reality check and devise our defence posture accordingly. One can't but quote an old George Washington saying, 'If you want peace, be prepared for war!' *Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd) is coordinator of the Pune-based Inpad and a Chhattrapati Shivaji Fellow working on insurgency. * Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd) From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 21:11:07 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:11:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: Indo-Pak Peace Process : A Mirage?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <341380d01002140741q4e742f4ai67ce4a75ce947cfa@mail.gmail.com> I thought I would boycott the trash written about IPL, My Name is Khan and India-Pakistan. Let me first show the reader the point where I left reading this piece because I know what was to follow will be based on a logical leap that was made in this critical juncture: "For over two decades South Africa faced a sports boycott by most of the world. India was an enthusiastic cheerleader in this. Yes, apartheid was wrong, and so is jihadi terrorism!" Col Athavle research must have so painstaking that he completely overlooked the argument which he was making here. Is the colonel ready to address the hate spewed by his own countrymen against Pakistan from the time of its creation? If he is, then where is the research. He is taking pains to research textbooks from Pakistan or the stuff taught in the school, here the moment a crescent on a green background appears, there is hue and cry about Pakistani hoisting a flag. Second, if South Africa was banned from participating in the international sports meet, there was an oppressive regime ruling over the state. there was a peoples' movement in the manner how india's or pakistan's national movements were taking place in 1930s or 1940s. (strangely, Berlin held olympics even with Hitler in power -- Col Athavle if you can draw some inspiration from here instead of lining up examples which cannot even be compared) Third, you have assumed that everyone in Pakistan is a jehadi. But then your authorities (which means the Indian government) has been taking a serious note of Balochistan? Why is India doing so if that state is full of jehadis? Everyone should just let Pakistanis bicker among themselves, after all according Col Athavle they are all jehadis. Four, how much has Col Athavle understood this wholly Islamic view of jehadis? Does he know that variations (some are stark while other subtle exist)? By making this claim, he himself is putting all the Islamists under one umbrella, which i am afraid unifies even the single strand which wants to have its own voice in this clamour of religious identitarian politics. I hope the pains that Col Athavle has taken to research this comes out even stronger than the bullet shells being fired in Siachen every year where soldiers get killed every year by either bullets or an oppressive weather. -Anupam On 2/14/10, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Hi all > > This is an article where the idea of the peace process being India and > Pakistan has been put under question. I hope others would like to express > their views and ideas on the relevance or irrelevance of the peace process > between the two nations, and whether it should continue or not accordingly. > > The article does have a bias, but then who among us doesn't have one? I > would like all biases to be there on public display as opposed to being > hidden and turning itself into a sinister ploy somewhere some day. > > Rakesh > > http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/feb/11/peace-with-pakistan-chasing-a-mirage.htm > > Peace with Pakistan: Chasing a mirage > February 11, 2010 16:24 IST > > > *Peace with Pakistan is not possible in the foreseeable future. Those > charged with the responsibility to safeguard our country and its citizens > will do well to get a reality check and devise our defence posture > accordingly, writes Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd).* > > The frozen peace process between India and Pakistan is in the news, again. A > joint peace campaign has been started by an Indian and a Pakistani news > organisation and a Bollywood star has jumped into the fray by regretting > that Pakistani cricketers were not picked for the Indian Premier League [ > Images]. > > This ought to provide the Indian government and people an opportunity to > take stock. After all the peace process, started in 1999 with Atal Bihari > Vajpayee's [ > Images] > famous bus ride to Lahore [ > Images ], is over > 10 years old. This is a good occasion to take a dispassionate look at the > past 10 years. > > But before we go into the subject proper, it is necessary to kill the > nonsensical notion of 'keeping sports above politics'. The Bollywood star > seems to have taken time out from his busy schedule of peddling men's > fairness cream and junk food to take up the case of Pakistani cricketers. > The usual suspect, the politically-correct media, has jumped on the > bandwagon and there is an outcry. This seems to be a case of collective > amnesia. For over two decades South Africa [ > Images] > faced a sports boycott by most of the world. India was an enthusiastic > cheerleader in this. Yes, apartheid was wrong, and so is jihadi terrorism! > > Even as some cry foul over the boycott of Pakistani players, most of the > Arab and Muslim world merrily continue their boycott of Israeli > sportspersons. Pakistan was at the forefront of boycotting the Moscow [ > Images ] Olympics [ > Images ] of 1980. > > My research trip to South Africa recently brought home the fact that sports > boycotts hurt, and hurt badly. Why does Pakistani society not introspect and > root out the extremists in their midst? > > The funny part is that our Bollywood star goes on to claim that as per > Indian tradition '*Atithi Devo Bhava' *(the guest is like God), he is pained > that we are not honouring 'guests' from across our western border. He seems > to have forgotten that just about a year and two months ago, 10 'guests' > from the same country came to Mumbai [ > Images] and > massacred nearly 180 people. > > While the media asks all and sundry, why not ask the thousands of relatives > of victims of the 26/11 terror attacks as to what they feel about inviting > Pakistani players when even now the mastermind Hafeez Saeed is free to > continue to spread his hate ideology? I am quite conscious that I am in the > company of a certain political party, but well, even they can be right > sometimes. > > *The root cause* > > In June-July 2006, I participated in the goodwill mission between Mumbai and > Karachi. Within a few days of our return from a goodwill trip to Karachi, > the terrorists struck at Mumbai's local trains on July 11, killing more than > 200 innocent people. But such is public memory in India that it has been > forgotten totally. The pseudo-peaceniks and sundry busybodies now want > Indians to forget the 26/11 Mumbai attacks and continue the peace process > with Pakistan. > > Let me hasten to add that we met a lot of people of goodwill and peace in > Pakistan. But most of them were part of the elite. There is no doubt about > their sincerity as well. But there is a total disconnect between the elite > and the masses. The biggest problem in the case of Pakistan is that civil > society has very little influence over either the masses or the government. > > The argument then was and today is -- the jihadis want to derail the peace > process, that is why they are doing it but we must continue with normal > relations, sporting ties, cultural exchanges et al*. * All this while the > Pakistanis deny any connection/responsibility towards these atrocities. I do > not buy this argument. If the peace process is not capable of bringing about > these minimum conditions, then it is useless. I publicly disassociated > myself from this pointless exercise. > > We have had cultural exchanges, people to people contacts, sports ties and > government level talks for over 11 years now (beginning with Vajpayee's > Lahore bus trip), yet the terror attacks inspired from across the border > have continued. Pakistani state and civil society remain as hostile as ever, > barring a minor fringe of the candlelight brigade. Pakistanis are forever in > a denial mode. > > Due to the courage of Tukaram Omble of the Mumbai police, we managed to > catch one terrorist alive during the Mumbai attacks. If this did not happen, > the Pakistanis would have continued to deny any role in the attacks. What > Pakistan needs is a major surgery, while we are trying to apply bandaid. I > do not think the Indians who advocate peace and normalcy* *have any > understanding of the root cause of all this, that is the systematic > brainwashing of their young students with hate for the last 20 years. > > *The dark forces in Pakistan* > > At a chief ministers' conference in Delhi [ > Images] > (February 7), the home minister and prime minister mentioned that > there > are 'dark forces' working in Pakistan to commit crimes against India and > destabilise Pakistan in order to take over that country. What are these > forces and how strong and widespread is their influence is an issue that > needs serious attention. > > In 1986, while working for my PhD on regional security, I sought an answer > to this very question. I had then got in touch with our military advisor at > Islamabad [ > Images], > Brigadier D K Khanna (who later retired as lieutenant general) to have > a > look at the kind of history that is being taught to Pakistani > schoolchildren. To my eternal gratitude, he sent me the text books published > by Hijari Publications Lahore. (*Muajshrati Aloom, prescribed for VI & VII > standards and Tehrik E Pakistan by Professor Mohammed Aslam for IX & X > standards). *These are in Urdu script, so while posted in Kashmir [ > Images] I got > them translated and transcribed on tape. The contents were > revealing. To cut a story short -- the books had created an image of 'Hindu > India' forever scheming the downfall of Islam and Pakistan. > > This is the staple hate diet on which the post Zia-ul Haq generation has > been brought up. Curiously, the fictional history takes the existence of > Pakistan* *to the pre-Christ period and omits even Alexander's raid and > Porus's heroic resistance. It dismisses a period of 2,000 years between the > Mohenjodaro civilisation of 3500 BC and Mohammad bin Qasim's invasion of > Sindh as 'myths and legends'. This was Zia's gift to Pakistan. It must be > remembered that we are not talking of madrasas -- this is in regular > government-run schools! > > While in the ministry of defence, I wrote about this 'root cause' of > Pakistani hostility in a strategic analysis for the ministry in 1988*. *This > was possibly noted and taken up at the prime ministers' level in December > 1988 and in a declaration in Islamabad by Rajiv Gandhi [ > Images] > and Benazir Bhutto [ > Images ] it > was accepted that both* *countries will revise their textbooks to remove > biases. It was typical of the Indian weakness of trying to mollify the > Pakistanis. For in India, there are no textbooks that denigrate Islam.* *But > soon thereafter, both the prime ministers lost power and the whole issue was > forgotten. It was only revived in 2004 under General Pervez Musharraf [ > Images ]. > > On my part I took up this issue with Professor A H Nayyar (of Pakistan) at a > world peace meet in Melbourne [ > Images] in > December 1998. To the credit of Professor Nayyar and Professor Parvez > Hoodbhoy, they have been working at it. But such is the opposition that I do > not know to what extent they have succeeded. In any case, even if the > curriculum reform takes place now, the results will be visible only after 20 > years. But what is the world to do now with Zia's fanatic children? > > I do feel vindicated that I raised this issue of effects of this > indoctrination with the director (near east and South Asia) at the US > National Security Council, Sandy Charles, on July 17, 1991. I had carried a > copy of my 1988 article and pleaded with her that in another 20 years time > as this generation comes of age, it will threaten not just India but the US > as well. > > The reason to elaborate on all this history is to drive home the point that > fanaticism in Pakistan is widespread and deep-rooted. There is no organised > effort to counter the ideology of hate. > > Paraphrasing a Mao dictum, the jihadis survive since they swim in a pond of > fanatics. Without the latter, like fish out of water, the jihadis would not > survive. > > What it also means is that even if an odd Hafeez Saeed is prosecuted, the > jihadi mentality will survive. It is amusing to how frequently the Indian > media talks of 'mastermind' of terror etc. Like the legendary *Ahi Rawan > Mahi Rawan*, even if one demon is slayed more will be created from each drop > of his blood. > > This then comes to the surface in a Sohail Tanvir [ > Images] > interview in which he blames Hindus for the IPL snub or sundry > comments by > Imran Khan [ > Images]. > > Many well-meaning Indians talk of peace based on a shared culture and > history. Does the average Pakistani accept this? Pakistan has assiduously > constructed a wholly Islamist view of history, culture and even ethnicity > over the last 60 years. Do the people dreaming of *'Aman Ki Asha'* even > realise this? > > Peace with Pakistan will remain a mirage for the foreseeable future. Those > charged with the responsibility to safeguard our country and its citizens > will do well to get a reality check and devise our defence posture > accordingly. One can't but quote an old George Washington saying, 'If you > want peace, be prepared for war!' > > *Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd) is coordinator of the Pune-based Inpad and a > Chhattrapati Shivaji Fellow working on insurgency. * > Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pkray11 at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 22:06:10 2010 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:06:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Plz share ur views on death penalty Message-ID: <98f331e01002140836j141a8754kb66c85025927c155@mail.gmail.com> Plz share ur views on death penalty and participate in the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Z7KQKW9 Thanks, PKR From faiz.outsider at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 00:45:44 2010 From: faiz.outsider at gmail.com (faiz ullah) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:45:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gurgaon Ki Awaaz Samudayik Radio 107.8 FM celebrates 3 months of broadcast Message-ID: <96c0bb201002141115o503d8c12ifb96a9014870dc97@mail.gmail.com> *Voices from the other side* *Gurgaon Ki Awaaz Samudayik Radio Station 107.8 FM celebrates three months of broadcast* Gurgaon, Haryana: On Thursday, February 25, 2010, Gurgaon’s only community radio station celebrates three months of round-the-clock broadcasting to a community that has remained voiceless throughout the transformation of Gurgaon from a sleepy cluster of villages 20 years ago to a much vaunted “Millennium City”. The only civil society-led community radio station in the entire National Capital Region, Gurgaon Ki Awaaz is a platform for and by marginalized community groups in Gurgaon, especially communities living in villages in and around Gurgaon, migrant workers and inner city residents for whom the gloss and glamour of malls and glass-fronted office buildings is simply a testament of the uneven development that has taken place in this town. Broadcasting in Hindi and Haryanvi, the radio station is run by a team of community reporters, the bulk of whom are from these very target communities within Gurgaon. The station has been set up and is supported by The Restoring Force (TRF), an NGO that works in government schools in Gurgaon district, primarily in the area of infrastructure enhancement (such as toilets for boys and girls, and drinking water supply in school) as well as career counseling for high school children. TRF is also actively engaged in projects that light up villages using solar lanterns. Gurgaon Ki Awaaz broadcasts 24 hours a day a wide range of programs that include programs on careers, entrepreneurship, migration, women’s empowerment and health, folk culture especially music, health, sports, and community reportage by school-going children. The station’s first trial broadcasts went on air on November 19, 2009 following several months of training for its team of raw village recruits, most of whom had never even opened a computer before. Many have not finished school. Today, the same reporters confidently and independently handle field assignments, studio recordings, editing and research. Within their communities, they enjoy new-found respect as carriers of the community’s songs, views, problems and concerns. TRF”s community radio initiative is an attempt to intervene in the community’s struggle with inadequate power, gaps in education infrastructure, and lack of knowledge about opportunities in education, livelihood and income generation. This, despite the fact, that a large number of Gurgaon’s villagers either have substantial land holdings, or have substantial cash reserves from selling off this land. Also at the receiving end are the lakhs of migrant workers who live and work in Gurgaon, and yet have no say in the shaping of their environment. The bulk of programming on *Gurgaon Ki Awaaz Samudayik Radio Station,*broadcasting on *107.8 MHz FM, * is created on-site in government schools in villages such as Garhi Harsaru, Sikanderpur, Sarai Alawardi and Dhankot. The radio is a wonderful medium to reach the community -- because by its very sound and music, it is very evidently "their" station. The station records and airs folk music and folk ballads performed by local music groups and performers, children's music (much of it recorded by the children in our government schools), and debates and discussions very much like Chaupals, that bring together diverse, but local, voices. * Career Counseling and Livelihood* Since TRF has already worked for many years in the area of career counseling, one of the programs that is broadcast is a daily on-air career program called “Hum Honge Kamyaab”. In addition, in a weekly interview-based entrepreneurship program, a member of the community outlines how he or she started his or her own small business. This program is called “Mera Nazariya, Mera Kaam”. Both these programmes work in tandem with job announcements drawn from the industrial and corporate belt in and around Gurgaon. In future, the station is also planning to introduce a regular Speak English program to improve English speaking skills within the community, for both children and adults. *Health* The health program is two-pronged. In addition to a weekly health program called “Swasth Gurgaon”, an add-on program is being built in partnership with St. Stephens Hospital Integrated Health Rural Outreach Program, which already works with schoolchildren through Bal Panchayats in village Dhankot and surrounding areas. In the pipeline is also a weekend Talk to the Doctor program, wherein people can phone into the studio and talk to the doctor about their medical problems. *Women’s empowerment through awareness and microfinance* TRF has an exciting partnership with St. Stephen’s Hospital Integrated Health Rural Outreach program in Dhankot which works in the area of microfinance and Self Help Groups (SHGs). This finds shape in a weekly programme called “Nari Shakti” that outlines the concept of Self Help Groups, brings successful case studies to the radio, and encourages women’s empowerment through livelihood, awareness and good health. *Migration and Inclusiveness* Gurgaon has been shaped by the lakhs of migrant workers from across India who work in the city’s factories, farms, homes and offices. Our weekly program “Sara Aasmaan Hamara” brings the personal stories of Gurgaon’s migrant workers to the radio as they share their journey from their villages to Gurgaon, their early struggles, the challenge of adjusting to a new milieu and, very often, living far away from home and family. * Entertainment* Music is the key to building an engaging radio station. The music on Gurgaon Ki Awaaz is its identity. When listeners tune in, they invariably listen to Ragini-s being sung by local mandali-s or bhajans by village women or songs by schoolchildren. So unique is this sound, so rooted to the land and collective community memory, that there has been an instant connect with the station. Not one listener asks for Hindi film music. Since this initiative has to ultimately be supported through community efforts, Gurgaon Ki Awaaz has found a creative way of building the station’s music bank without having to pay royalty for songs. The station does not play any film music. Instead, the studio has been opened to village performers and mandali-s and anyone who wants to record a demo CD of music. In return, the station asks performers to sign over Complete Broadcasting Rights to air that music on the radio station, at no charge. This is a win-win situation where artistes from all walks of life and all ages can get a CD of their songs recorded in a studio at no charge, while the community gets to hear a variety of music. From songs to ballads to instrumental tracks, the station is slowly but surely building an interesting and diverse music bank that is extremely popular. FOR MORE INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT: Project Manager, Arti Jaiman *arti at trfindia.org* +91 9811126336 Senior Reporter, Soumya Jha soumya.jha at trfindia.org. 0124-4087545 From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Feb 14 20:26:41 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:56:41 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER References: <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <25E3D7A55CC44060AF2A31371AC9E797@tara> Agreed. The least efficient and most bigoted Maharashtran government is able to take a stand because the perpetrators are not MNS this time. And also because Shiv Sena has its clout. ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.K. Malik" To: "Bipin" Cc: "Sarai List" Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:12 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER > Dear Mr Bipin, > I have only one question-is there any Rule of Law in this > country or not?If I don't like what you your views are, am I entitled to > destroy your house ,office or not allow you to enter into the city? > There are more democratic ways for showing dissent or difference of > opinion.If someone does the same thing to Shiv Sainiks what they are doing > to others then what? Perhaps for the first time some tough stand has been > taken by the Govt of Maharashtra that too seems to be because it helps > them politically not for any sane reasons. > Regards > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Bipin wrote: > >> From: Bipin >> Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER >> To: "rajesh" , "viral" >> Cc: "sarai-list" >> Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 11:29 AM >> >> >> Problem starts with SRK statement to take Pak cricketer in >> IPL. Shivsena was >> right by opposing SRK statement, but there way of opposing >> SRK film was >> wrong. Actually by this way they help in the public belief >> that SRK is right >> by making such wrong statement. We can never fight pak >> sponsored terrorism >> unless we change our mindset to favor pak people may be >> cricketer, singer, >> artists or others. Actually by ignoring them, It will >> create pressure on pak >> authorities to control terrorists. Our mindset has become >> pseudo-secularists >> and all the media also does the same thing. Sorry to tell >> but with this >> mindset we can never fight terrorism by any means and >> suffer with it >> indefinitely! >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 08:33:45 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:33:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] For the love of books: Story of a children's library in Bangalore Message-ID: On my recent trip to Bangalore, I visited an amazing library for children. This is to share my impressions of the place. Available at http://chintangirishmodi.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/for-the-love-of-books/ as well. Chintan -- *For the love of books* * * By Chintan Girish Modi Imagine having a little pond in your school library, where you can look at colourful fish swim by as you read your favourite book. A spiral staircase leading up to a tower from where you can see almost the entire school. Quiet corners that let you sit alone and undisturbed, lost to the world as you sit immersed in your own world of stories... Does it sound like an unbelievable fantasy? You might be pleasantly surprised to know that such a library truly exists, in a school called Centre for Learning, on the outskirts of Bangalore. I visited them recently, and had the opportunity to meet Usha Aunty, an inspiring lady who loves books and children, and introducing children to the wonderful world of books. She has introduced simple and beautiful ways to involve children in their own learning space. Firstly, there is no librarian acting like a monitor, giving you a million instructions. You can simply pick up any book you like, and make a note in the computerised system placed in the library, without waiting for an adult to do it for you. This openness extends to many of the library activities. Children are encouraged to 'adopt' books and care for them. The library has a small section called the Book Hospital where torn and damaged books are kept. These are stuck together and bound properly. If you have adopted a particular book, you make a new cover for it, and write a short description at the back of the book. You also get to interview a few students and teachers who have read the book, so that you can compile their comments to attract new readers. Apart from this, you can make book marks, write book ads, paint posters and display lists of favourite books -- whatever that makes reading exciting and fun for you. If you are wondering 'All of this sounds great, but this might never work in my school library', spend some time thinking of ideas that your teachers or librarian might be open to. When they see that you are genuinely interested, they will put aside their doubts, and join in your enthusiasm. Here are a few ideas to get you started: 1. Read newspapers to look for reviews of new books for children. These can be shared with the class, or put up in the library. This activity will prove quite useful when orders for books are being placed. 2. At home, and in your neighbourhood, look out for interesting books that are lying unread on dusty shelves. Ask if these can be donated to the library. 3. Offer to make attractive posters for the library. 4. Help to keep the library clean, and mend torn books. 5. Ask your teachers to talk about books they liked to read in their childhood. You might get to see a very different side to them. 6. Organise sessions where you can read poems or short extracts from books. This will help you learn about your friends' interests, and even discover books and writers you didn't know about earlier. NOTE: This article appeared in the Hyderabad edition of Young World (supplement with The Hindu) on Feb 9, 2010. To know more about the CFL library, check http://library.cfl.in/ To see pictures of the library, check http://www.flickr.com/photos/cfllibrary/404710489/in/photostream/ From aliens at dataone.in Mon Feb 15 10:50:31 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:50:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER Message-ID: <000001caadfe$9ac83170$d0589450$@in> Freedom of speech can be tolerable but freedom of acts (violence) is not at all tolerable. In that case strict action must be taken and must be applicable to all may be terrorists, local supporter to terrorists, telangana activists, ram sena activist anyone who damage/destroy public properties. From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 4:46 PM To: A.K. Malik Cc: Bipin; Sarai List Subject: Re: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER Dear Malik jee The Maharashtra govt. hasn't done anything of substance to suggest (except for the recent arrest of Shiv Sainiks who were involved in violent activities) that they are serious in taking on this problem. The simplest strategy could have been to house arrest the entire Thackeray clan and keep them in house arrest (without anybody meeting them or their views being heard out) for the next 6 months or so. Things would have improved automatically. Once goons are not heard, things turn to sanity. I do understand that some may comment here, that it's an attack on freedom of speech. To that I would respond by saying that freedom of speech has a limit that it shouldn't result in loss of freedoms or rights of other individuals, and if it does so, then it has to be curtailed, howsoever much we may dislike it. What the Thackerays are indulging in are plain threats, and they should be put behind bars for inciting people to commit violence. Rakesh __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4864 (20100213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aliens at dataone.in Mon Feb 15 10:50:31 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:50:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER Message-ID: <000501caadfe$a0b6e680$e224b380$@in> In my views neither I have supported the acts of shivsena nor their views. I have just oppose the sharukh statement which is anti-national view and recent pune attack proves that pak will never behave like a gentle country and we should not entertain pak people by any means. Even not necessary to initiate talk with them (of course with the pressure of US). -----Original Message----- From: A.K. Malik [mailto:akmalik45 at yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 4:42 PM To: Bipin Cc: Sarai List Subject: Re: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER Dear Mr Bipin, I have only one question-is there any Rule of Law in this country or not?If I don't like what you your views are, am I entitled to destroy your house ,office or not allow you to enter into the city? There are more democratic ways for showing dissent or difference of opinion.If someone does the same thing to Shiv Sainiks what they are doing to others then what? Perhaps for the first time some tough stand has been taken by the Govt of Maharashtra that too seems to be because it helps them politically not for any sane reasons. Regards (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Bipin wrote: > From: Bipin > Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER > To: "rajesh" , "viral" > Cc: "sarai-list" > Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 11:29 AM > > > Problem starts with SRK statement to take Pak cricketer in > IPL. Shivsena was > right by opposing SRK statement, but there way of opposing > SRK film was > wrong. Actually by this way they help in the public belief > that SRK is right > by making such wrong statement. We can never fight pak > sponsored terrorism > unless we change our mindset to favor pak people may be > cricketer, singer, > artists or others. Actually by ignoring them, It will > create pressure on pak > authorities to control terrorists. Our mindset has become > pseudo-secularists > and all the media also does the same thing. Sorry to tell > but with this > mindset we can never fight terrorism by any means and > suffer with it > indefinitely! > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4864 (20100213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4864 (20100213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4864 (20100213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 13:21:28 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:21:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? Message-ID: Pune And After Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold? B. Raman http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, that could have required any special training. The expertise involved could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point an accusing finger at Pakistan. The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the German Bakery was targeted. Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a clear picture emerges? These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai. COMMENTS : HAVE YOUR SAY Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM 21 Maha, >> what points? The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty reactions."" Anwaar Dallas, United States Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM 20 Varun, >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want to blame some Hindu group. Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. Anwaar Dallas, United States Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM 19 "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. Maha NJ, United States Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM 18 Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas will be able to link it to them through their great investigative work. Maha For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects here would include Mossad and the CIA. Varun Shekhar Toronto, CANADA Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM 17 Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, Sandeep. http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ Rama sydney, Australia Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM 16 "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist" I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had absolutely NO hand in the incident. Ganesan Nj, USA Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM 15 Maha, >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. Anwaar Dallas, United States Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM 14 http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas will be able to link it to them through their great investigative work. Maha NJ, United States Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM 13 Maha, Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html Anwaar Dallas, United States Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM 12 "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva terrorists. Maha NJ, United States Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM 11 " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities ...." Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty reactions." Anwaar Dallas, United States Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM 10 Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. drharun chennai, India Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM 9 "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious and irrational people India is up against. Varun Shekhar Toronto, CANADA Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM 8 "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' Nasser Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try to accept the truth. a k ghai mumbai, India Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM 7 http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our great neighbor. Maha NJ, United States Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM 6 An excellent article http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm Ganesan Nj, USA Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM 5 Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in these blasts. nasar Raleigh, USA Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM 4 A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror attack. And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) Ganesan Nj, USA Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM 3 Dear Mr Raman; This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose interests are these rouge elements serving? What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or stall the new initiatives? If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any 'strings attached'? Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on other's designs? The root might be more political and economic, as; a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of dollars involved in the stake. b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to balance the threat from further north. c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with Pakistan. d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this regard? e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert attention from the recent MNIK controversy? If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm JJohn Kottayam, India Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM 2 The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. S.S.Nagaraj Bangalore, India Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM 1 It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire west. China also wants access to indian Market. Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure and all of them will fall in line. Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will fall in line. vibhaas, Doha vibhaas Doha, qatar From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 13:26:31 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:26:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If there is a suspicion, first investigate the case properly and then find out if this can be done or not. As per initial news reports, RDX has been used in the blasts, and investigative agencies believe that production of RDX in public in India is not possible, thereby meaning that Pakistan may have a role in the blasts. Let's see if this is indeed true or not first, instead of blaming Indian Mujahideen or RSS or any other organization for the blasts. Rakesh On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: > Pune And After > Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should > India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on > hold? > > B. Raman > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 > > Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials > indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented > German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of > terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and > possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came > into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to > the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in > the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, > that could have required any special training. The expertise involved > could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point > an accusing finger at Pakistan. > > The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and > activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the > Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of > Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for > targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were > used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected > target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi > and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his > interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was > interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. > > Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad > House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by > Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by > the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used > to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western > youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German > Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the > German Bakery was targeted. > > Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well > orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, > Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and > September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over > Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow > up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it > involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance > of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of > Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under > suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the > US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, > which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against > the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's > tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go > ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a > clear picture emerges? > > These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the > policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. > of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and > should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation > of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. > > B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of > India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical > Studies, Chennai. > > COMMENTS : > HAVE YOUR SAY > Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM > 21 > > Maha, > > >> what points? > > The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the > headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous > blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the > suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been > visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is > more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or > Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind > and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > reactions."" > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM > 20 > > Varun, > > >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and > obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want to > blame some Hindu group. > > Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from > you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open > mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM > 19 > > "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." > > what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk > propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There > some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are > turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. > > It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced > about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM > 18 > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > work. > Maha > > For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, > irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in > general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For > some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects > here would include Mossad and the CIA. > Varun Shekhar > Toronto, CANADA > Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM > 17 > > Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I > suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to > know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was > responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, > Sandeep. > http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ > Rama > sydney, Australia > Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM > 16 > > "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist" > > I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had > absolutely NO hand in the incident. > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM > 15 > > Maha, > > >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. > > It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM > 14 > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > work. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM > 13 > > Maha, > > Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a > way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". > > "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and > fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM > 12 > > "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" > > I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic > terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva > terrorists. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM > 11 > > " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all > possibilities ...." > > Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that > Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. > Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had > been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. > > In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of > Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India > should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should > avoid over or hasty reactions." > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM > 10 > > Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to > condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why > are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not > indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the > name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame > others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. > drharun > chennai, India > Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM > 9 > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" > > Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's > laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was > really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu > group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish > visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. > > This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious > and irrational people India is up against. > Varun Shekhar > Toronto, CANADA > Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM > 8 > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' > > Nasser > > Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try > to accept the truth. > a k ghai > mumbai, India > Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM > 7 > > http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm > > This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our > great neighbor. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM > 6 > > An excellent article > > http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > 5 > > Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on > the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police > officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in > blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in > Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in > these blasts. > nasar > Raleigh, USA > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > 4 > > A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is > not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What > diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. > > I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? > And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to > justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the > govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the > culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? > > What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has > been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has > been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the > attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and > makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling > the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this > bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have > been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. > > But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about > terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. > In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, > we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror > attack. > > And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to > justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM > 3 > > Dear Mr Raman; > > This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate > attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose > interests are these rouge elements serving? > > What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards > the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to > accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or > stall the new initiatives? > > If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any > 'strings attached'? > > Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose > interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? > > What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on > other's designs? > > The root might be more political and economic, as; > > a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of > dollars involved in the stake. > > b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and > Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of > anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to > concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to > balance the threat from further north. > > c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences > or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also > the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with > Pakistan. > > d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if > ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the > present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this > regard? > > e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted > to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some > sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , > especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? > > f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert > attention from the recent MNIK controversy? > > If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in > the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the > talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. > > JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm > JJohn > Kottayam, India > Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM > 2 > > The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the > Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's > Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection > to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. > S.S.Nagaraj > Bangalore, India > Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM > 1 > > It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want > access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire > west. China also wants access to indian Market. > > Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods > to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is > huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure > and all of them will fall in line. > > Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on > propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will > fall in line. > vibhaas, Doha > vibhaas > Doha, qatar > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Mon Feb 15 13:27:32 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:27:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] PAK BLUNDER Message-ID: <003501caae14$87cc42d0$9764c870$@in> Recent terrorists attack in Pune was one more attempt of pak sponsored terrorism in India. Their argument is that we will stop sponsoring terrorism after resolving Kashmir issue (resolve means handover Kashmir to them in their eye). There is no question of giving any part of Kashmir to them. Actually now time has come to take back POK also to resolve this issue forever. We should not bow down on international pressure for this matter and must built china like wall if required to stop infiltration. Once again it proves that we must not entertain pak people in India. From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Mon Feb 15 15:42:57 2010 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:12:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: Indo-Pak Peace Process : A Mirage?? Message-ID: <768773.75346.qm@web112620.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Two important points have been made by Anil Athale.   Of his goodwill mission visit to Pakistan in 2006, he says:   "Let me hasten to add that we met a lot of people of goodwill and peace in Pakistan. But most of them were part of the elite. There is no doubt about their sincerity as well. But there is a total disconnect between the elite and the masses. The biggest problem in the case of Pakistan is that civil society has very little influence over either the masses or the government."   He finds one of the reasons for the Pakistanis' hate for India in their Textbooks:   " To cut a story short -- the books had created an image of 'Hindu India' forever scheming the downfall of Islam and Pakistan. This is the staple hate diet on which the post Zia-ul Haq generation has been brought up. Curiously, the fictional history takes the existence of Pakistan* *to the pre-Christ period and omits even Alexander's raid and Porus's heroic resistance. It dismisses a period of 2,000 years between the Mohenjodaro civilisation of 3500 BC and Mohammad bin Qasim's invasion of Sindh as 'myths and legends'. This was Zia's gift to Pakistan. It must be remembered that we are not talking of madrasas -- this is in regular government-run schools! ********* In any case, even if thecurriculum reform takes place now, the results will be visible only after 20 years. But what is the world to do now with Zia's fanatic children? I do feel vindicated that I raised this issue of effects of this indoctrination with the director (near east and South Asia) at the US National Security Council, Sandy Charles, on July 17, 1991. I had carried a copy of my 1988 article and pleaded with her that in another 20 years time as this generation comes of age, it will threaten not just India but the US as well. The reason to elaborate on all this history is to drive home the point that fanaticism in Pakistan is widespread and deep-rooted. There is no organised effort to counter the ideology of hate. ******** Many well-meaning Indians talk of peace based on a shared culture and history. Does the average Pakistani accept this? Pakistan has assiduously constructed a wholly Islamist view of history, culture and even ethnicity over the last 60 years. Do the people dreaming of *'Aman Ki Asha'*  even realise this?"   It could be said that to some extent and in some form in India also there is a disconnect between the elite and the masses in the attitude towards Pakistan. The Indian viewpoint on History also would be at variance with the Pakistani viewpoint. However, as Athale has said "in India, there are no textbooks that denigrate Islam"   Unless this similarity of problematic attitudes on both sides changes it would seem that the "Aman Ki Asha" is a "Foolish Aasha"   ................ aalok aima From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 15:53:31 2010 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:53:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec561002150223o7af9d47dy2ee0803be84f9081@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, what is truly amusing is the fact that "hindu" is a way of life, and has no one as its spokesperson, as way of life is according to the individual who has a right to live his life as he chooses to. But when it comes to any other "organised" way of life, there are umpteen authorised spokes persons, un- authorised spokesmen and women who have expressed their opinions, and whole society has to tolerate the opinions as that is what the way of life is all about for hindu way of life. Worse, there are preachers who preach that if you follow a organised faith, its way of life, you are the saved soul, saviour has promised salvation, as saviour.! These preachers are out to exploit the poor and downtrodden where our system of governance rallies with "schemes" to uphold the dignity, give better governance by reservation, quota, jobs and what not with "populist" schemes.! And there are clergies who promise you jannath if you plant bombs, arrange blasts for the faith, organised way of life, you are assured to reach haven, enjoy with 72 virgins and believers have indoctrined belief when they go for fidayeen attacks, their bodies will also go to heaven, to enjoy the virgins.! And then there are few celebrities, who have a way of life, to defend the teror perpetrators, terrorists, as they are the organised faith representatives achieving heaven for the living in the world.! After a reasonable studies of all the holy books of different ways of life, one can not miss the moot point, that this wisdom is for all humanity, holy books are holier, as they have wisdom of the ages, of ways of life, of the society, different segments of the society, to live better life on earth.But the interpretations of the holy books in the changing life styles have only created a set of preachers who believe that they are custodians of knoledge, only their interpretations correct, thus they are the spokespersons of the faith.Everyone has a right to express the opinions, but when the opinions clash not for the welfare of the society, but for destroying the societal life, the system which has the lawkeepers and judiciary which upholds laws of the society has not done its dutes to the society. Then at this point the blame game starts, one segment and its spokespersons blaming the other segments of the society for all the violent acts and destructions.But if at all, we as individuals in society, of which we are part, pause to introspect, the blacksheep who talks of rights for the deviants, to get a house in a particular area, buy a flat, etc, will stand exposed. The celbrities in all walks of life do have the tendency to earn fame, nay, notoreity by their actions. Funny part is they have right to conceal their "real" name.! Thus, a celebrity can only be bashing a faith, having a name of Ganesh, mahesh, etc, but did anyone find a javed or maqbool bashing the other way.? Celebrities do stand exposed, for they live on crumbs of the society, bollywood has money from underworld, underworld is known for its umblical chord connections with terror funds. Now about the great celebrity of the time, "badshah" or King of entertainment, is Khan, well, I have no issues with that, he has millions of fans, they love him for his projected image in his movies, his good acting, he is entertainer.But is he KHAN.? Is he not Shah Rukh his correct name, and khan is his clan name.? My name is Rajendra, my family name is Bhat, my family has had title of Sahukars, not that we are sahukars any more.! Issue here is what concerns me about the utterings of Shahrukh, when he says my father is Pakistani, I have sympathies with Pakistan, is that this pakistan is hostile neighbour, attacked the nation numerous times, proxy war of terror is epi-centre in that nation.Yes, as a peace loving individual, all of us need peace and harmony. But when this Shahrukh with funds sources unknown, takes up, an image make over to say, I am Khan, I am not terrorist, to a president of another nation, can we overlook the khan that blew up the twin towers in that nation.? Or to that matter, the kasab who is again in custody, having best of the facilities is again a khan.?Or to that matter, the brothers who conspired to blow the airport at Glasgow are not khans.? Fact is khans are tribes which love violence, Shahrukh has indulged in intellectual terrorism, whitewashing the fact that he is not terrorist. As to Shivsena or MNS, it is the creation of the system, which has preference to divide and rule the nation, it is sheer vote bank politics of dividing the society, on caste, language and region and faith, creating monsters out of nobodies, selectively appeasing the one or the other as per election time needs. Islam does not preach violence, so also all the faiths, but interpretations of holy books by vested interests has a situation where the national leaders go on jihaad and crusade, destoying millions of individuals of a nation, justifying the actions as war on terror, an abstract term, not the terrorist in society, who can not be active if individuals do not support him, extend logistic support to him, be the sleeper cells in thir nations when they are asked to act, they become terrorists.Terrorism has no religion, it has only fiscal face, of wealth, those who die for the terror acts, have the wealth for their families all the wealth.The system which has to oversee the the law and order has leaders who are more concerned about their next elections to the seat of power. All across the polity, the leaders can claim to be patriots, but the fact rmains, they do indulge in appeasements, selectively, thus creating vote banks to ensure the power.! Power to get elected democratically, be an autocrat, just a thought, under free expression, responses are apprciated, but well, so what the heck.! On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > If there is a suspicion, first investigate the case properly and then find > out if this can be done or not. As per initial news reports, RDX has been > used in the blasts, and investigative agencies believe that production of > RDX in public in India is not possible, thereby meaning that Pakistan may > have a role in the blasts. Let's see if this is indeed true or not first, > instead of blaming Indian Mujahideen or RSS or any other organization for > the blasts. > > Rakesh > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: > > > Pune And After > > Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should > > India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on > > hold? > > > > B. Raman > > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 > > > > Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials > > indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented > > German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of > > terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and > > possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came > > into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to > > the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in > > the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, > > that could have required any special training. The expertise involved > > could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point > > an accusing finger at Pakistan. > > > > The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and > > activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the > > Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of > > Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for > > targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were > > used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected > > target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi > > and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his > > interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was > > interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. > > > > Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad > > House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by > > Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by > > the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used > > to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western > > youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German > > Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the > > German Bakery was targeted. > > > > Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well > > orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, > > Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and > > September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over > > Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow > > up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it > > involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance > > of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of > > Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under > > suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the > > US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, > > which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against > > the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's > > tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go > > ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a > > clear picture emerges? > > > > These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the > > policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. > > of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and > > should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation > > of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. > > > > B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of > > India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical > > Studies, Chennai. > > > > COMMENTS : > > HAVE YOUR SAY > > Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM > > 21 > > > > Maha, > > > > >> what points? > > > > The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the > > headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous > > blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the > > suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been > > visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is > > more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or > > Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind > > and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > > reactions."" > > Anwaar > > Dallas, United States > > Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM > > 20 > > > > Varun, > > > > >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and > > obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want to > > blame some Hindu group. > > > > Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from > > you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open > > mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > > reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. > > Anwaar > > Dallas, United States > > Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM > > 19 > > > > "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." > > > > what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk > > propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There > > some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are > > turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. > > > > It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced > > about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. > > Maha > > NJ, United States > > Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM > > 18 > > > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > > work. > > Maha > > > > For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, > > irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in > > general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For > > some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects > > here would include Mossad and the CIA. > > Varun Shekhar > > Toronto, CANADA > > Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM > > 17 > > > > Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I > > suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to > > know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was > > responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, > > Sandeep. > > http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ > > Rama > > sydney, Australia > > Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM > > 16 > > > > "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist" > > > > I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had > > absolutely NO hand in the incident. > > Ganesan > > Nj, USA > > Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM > > 15 > > > > Maha, > > > > >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. > > > > It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. > > Anwaar > > Dallas, United States > > Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM > > 14 > > > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" > > > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > > work. > > Maha > > NJ, United States > > Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM > > 13 > > > > Maha, > > > > Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a > > way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". > > > > "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and > > fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." > > > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html > > Anwaar > > Dallas, United States > > Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM > > 12 > > > > "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" > > > > I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic > > terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva > > terrorists. > > Maha > > NJ, United States > > Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM > > 11 > > > > " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all > > possibilities ...." > > > > Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that > > Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. > > Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had > > been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. > > > > In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of > > Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India > > should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should > > avoid over or hasty reactions." > > Anwaar > > Dallas, United States > > Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM > > 10 > > > > Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to > > condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why > > are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not > > indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the > > name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame > > others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. > > drharun > > chennai, India > > Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM > > 9 > > > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" > > > > Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's > > laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was > > really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu > > group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish > > visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. > > > > This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious > > and irrational people India is up against. > > Varun Shekhar > > Toronto, CANADA > > Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM > > 8 > > > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' > > > > Nasser > > > > Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try > > to accept the truth. > > a k ghai > > mumbai, India > > Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM > > 7 > > > > http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm > > > > This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our > > great neighbor. > > Maha > > NJ, United States > > Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM > > 6 > > > > An excellent article > > > > http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm > > Ganesan > > Nj, USA > > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > > 5 > > > > Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on > > the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police > > officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in > > blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in > > Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in > > these blasts. > > nasar > > Raleigh, USA > > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > > 4 > > > > A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is > > not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What > > diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. > > > > I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? > > And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to > > justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the > > govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the > > culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? > > > > What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has > > been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has > > been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the > > attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and > > makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling > > the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this > > bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have > > been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. > > > > But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about > > terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. > > In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, > > we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror > > attack. > > > > And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to > > justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) > > Ganesan > > Nj, USA > > Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM > > 3 > > > > Dear Mr Raman; > > > > This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate > > attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose > > interests are these rouge elements serving? > > > > What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards > > the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to > > accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or > > stall the new initiatives? > > > > If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any > > 'strings attached'? > > > > Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose > > interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? > > > > What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on > > other's designs? > > > > The root might be more political and economic, as; > > > > a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of > > dollars involved in the stake. > > > > b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and > > Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of > > anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to > > concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to > > balance the threat from further north. > > > > c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences > > or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also > > the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with > > Pakistan. > > > > d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if > > ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the > > present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this > > regard? > > > > e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted > > to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some > > sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , > > especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? > > > > f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert > > attention from the recent MNIK controversy? > > > > If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in > > the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the > > talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. > > > > JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm > > JJohn > > Kottayam, India > > Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM > > 2 > > > > The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the > > Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's > > Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection > > to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. > > S.S.Nagaraj > > Bangalore, India > > Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM > > 1 > > > > It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want > > access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire > > west. China also wants access to indian Market. > > > > Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods > > to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is > > huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure > > and all of them will fall in line. > > > > Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on > > propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will > > fall in line. > > vibhaas, Doha > > vibhaas > > Doha, qatar > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 16:07:00 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:07:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sesame Workshop India seeks students/consultants to conduct research project in Mumbai Message-ID: If you are interested in working on this, mail *ira_joshi_2000 at yahoo.com* ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ira Joshi Date: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Sesame research I am writing from Sesame Workshop India (SWI), a non-profit organization that provides quality early childhood educational experiences to children. Our mission is to address critical educational needs of Indian children through content across multiple media including television, radio, internet, print materials and community outreach. We are about to conduct a small research project in Mumbai and would like to request students/consultants to help us with this research. We plan to conduct our research in *Anganwadi* centres in Mumbai under the Integrated Child Development Scheme (ICDS). The research will help us assess the comprehension and appeal of materials already delivered to 200 centres. Also, we hope to understand better the functioning of ICDS centres on key program parameters like infrastructural facilities, physical environment and teacher-helper availability. For the purpose of this study, 20 *Anganwadi* centres will be randomly selected from the program implementation area in Mumbai. Observations of * Anganwadi* centres and mini group discussion with teachers will be conducted to gather information. The following are the details regarding the nature of activities involved in the research process - Slum mapping to locate the 20 *Anganwadi* centres; - Procure permission from supervisors / teachers to conduct the study; - Participate in two-day training exercise with SWI team for orientation on research instruments; - Visit 5-6 *Anganwadi* centres over a span of 4-5 days, conduct observations and record them in the checklist; - Coordinate with SWI team member to assist *Anganwadi* teacher to reach a pre-decided venue for group discussion. The instruments for research will be created by SWI team and the research assistants will administer them. The entire exercise would take place over 7-8 days and the tentative timelines are 8th-15th March. The researchers will be paid remuneration in the range 8-10 thousand/ per person excluding local travel to be reimbursed on actual. We encourage women candidates for the research. Minimum qualifications include graduation in any discipline. The candidate should be well versed in Hindi and Marathi and should be willing to visit the slums and conduct data collection. Interested people should send your details to *ira_joshi_2000 at yahoo.com* Sincerely, Ira Joshi Consultant, Sesame Workshop India From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 16:07:56 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:07:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sesame Workshop India needs students/consultants to conduct research project in Mumbai Message-ID: If you are interested in working on this, mail *ira_joshi_2000 at yahoo.com* ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ira Joshi Date: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Sesame research I am writing from Sesame Workshop India (SWI), a non-profit organization that provides quality early childhood educational experiences to children. Our mission is to address critical educational needs of Indian children through content across multiple media including television, radio, internet, print materials and community outreach. We are about to conduct a small research project in Mumbai and would like to request students/consultants to help us with this research. We plan to conduct our research in *Anganwadi* centres in Mumbai under the Integrated Child Development Scheme (ICDS). The research will help us assess the comprehension and appeal of materials already delivered to 200 centres. Also, we hope to understand better the functioning of ICDS centres on key program parameters like infrastructural facilities, physical environment and teacher-helper availability. For the purpose of this study, 20 *Anganwadi* centres will be randomly selected from the program implementation area in Mumbai. Observations of * Anganwadi* centres and mini group discussion with teachers will be conducted to gather information. The following are the details regarding the nature of activities involved in the research process - Slum mapping to locate the 20 *Anganwadi* centres; - Procure permission from supervisors / teachers to conduct the study; - Participate in two-day training exercise with SWI team for orientation on research instruments; - Visit 5-6 *Anganwadi* centres over a span of 4-5 days, conduct observations and record them in the checklist; - Coordinate with SWI team member to assist *Anganwadi* teacher to reach a pre-decided venue for group discussion. The instruments for research will be created by SWI team and the research assistants will administer them. The entire exercise would take place over 7-8 days and the tentative timelines are 8th-15th March. The researchers will be paid remuneration in the range 8-10 thousand/ per person excluding local travel to be reimbursed on actual. We encourage women candidates for the research. Minimum qualifications include graduation in any discipline. The candidate should be well versed in Hindi and Marathi and should be willing to visit the slums and conduct data collection. Interested people should send your details to *ira_joshi_2000 at yahoo.com* Sincerely, Ira Joshi Consultant, Sesame Workshop India From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 15 16:46:39 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:16:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan (By: Bandyopadhyay Arindam) Message-ID: <862304.24383.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan"  By: Bandyopadhyay Arindam   Jan-31-2010   Your name is a household phenomenon in Indian and even beyond her borders. Your fame has put you in the Newsweek "most powerful people list" recently. However, as you may recall from your recent experience in New Jersey Airport, real life is a little different - it does not always follow the path predicted by a scriptwriter or director. Of late, we have been reading about your opinions and statements on matters beyond the celluloid world. Nothing is wrong in it. You live in a free, democratic country and are entirely entitled to your opinion. But as a common man, also from the same soil, I think I have the right too to raise a few points that may not conform to your views of the real world. I hope you will read it out. When recently, the Pakistani players were not selected for the IPL, it was almost predictable that NDTV, the award-winning, mouthpiece of our Indian liberal media select you for your views and you certified that "It (Pakistan) is a great neighbour to have. We (India and Pakistan) are great neighbours. They are good neighbours." I have a few words to say about those statements. One may recall your effort to clarify the Pakistani team captain, Shoaib Malik"s apology to the Muslims, living all over the world, for failing to win the final T20 match against India, likely much to the embarrassment of a lot of Indian Muslims, as expressed by Shamin Bano, mother of the man of the match, Irfan Pathan. What was more embarrassing was your effort to try to defend Shoaib in a subsequent interview, "I don"t think he meant to segregate Muslims and Christians and Hindus and say this was a match between Islam and Hinduism. I don"t think that..." I doubt whether Shoaib talked to you personally about his thought process at that time. You did not really have to respond for somebody else but perhaps you could not resist the temptation to show your brotherhood and solidarity. This reminds us again of Dr Ambedkar"s observation that, "The brotherhood of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is brotherhood of Muslims for Muslims only. Partition of India was what Pakistan wanted and got. It was painful to millions but many more millions in present India have been spared. Since then Pakistan has offered us only hatred. It has imposed on us three major wars, the Kargil insurgency, the Kashmir conflict, the series of serial blasts, the routine violation of border ceasefires, attacks on the Parliament House and the recent Mumbai 26/11attack. Did you have these in mind when you talked about them being good neighbours? In another interview you had tried to explain the concept of Islamic Jihad. "I think one needs to understand the meaning of jihad .. I"ve understood the essence that jihad is not about killing other people; jihad is about killing the badness in you." May be you understand jihad better and deeper than the superficial meaning of what we, the rest of the mortal mankind, overburdened and terrorized by the inter-religious, intra-religious and sectarian violence that is plaguing the world in the name of Islam today, do. For we, the less educated, cannot really make a difference between Jihad and Qatl, between Jihad by heart / soul, Jihad by pen and Jihad by sword or between lesser and greater jihad. We wonder, whatever its meaning may be, does it minimize the significance of the mindless killings that we see today in the name of Islam, across borders, all over the world? Does it change the nature of the killers whether you call them holy warriors, mujahidins, fedayeens or plane suicide bombers? We agree with you that terrorism has no religion. But hopefully you will also agree with the people who perceive that most terrorist in the world today happen to believe in the scriptures of Islam. They actually believe that they themselves are the true Islamists. The so called "moderate" Islamist, perhaps does not want to contradict them or may be does not dare to speak out against them. You have probably not forgotten the FIR against you for listing Prophet Mohammed as one of the most unimpressive personalities in history, the threats from which you had to skillfully wriggle out. Others who are not so fortunate, famous or flexible are suffering lifetime, as Tasleema Nasreen or Salman Rushdie would testify. For blasphemy in Islam is punishable with death, even for a believer. Do I have to spell out the fate if it is a non-believer? It is due to the inherent intolerance and exclusivity of Islam itself despite your effort to convince us that there is an Islam from Allah and very unfortunately, there is an Islam from the Mullahs Here is an historical insight from writer Irfan Hussain, "The Muslim heroes who figure larger than life in our history books committed some dreadful crimes..all have blood-stained hands that the passage of years has not cleansed. Indeed, the presence of Muslim historians on their various campaigns has ensured that the memory of their deeds will live long after they were buried...Seen through Hindu eyes, the Muslim invasion of their homeland was an unmitigated disaster." So why should the "non-believers" care to accept them? Why should the majority of Indians like to welcome back such disasters again? Since partition, India has come a long way in progress and development to her current status and is projected as an economic superpower in coming decades while Pakistan is perceived as a failed state on the verge of disintegration. What does India have to gain by offering neighbourly friendship to such a hostile and failed state? India has never been an invader and is not in conflict of any other Muslim country. None of the wars and conflicts with Pakistan was instigated by India. In the current geopolitical situation, one can argue for the Muslim world"s grudge and anger against Israel or the west and USA but one fail to fathom why India should also be at the receiving end and why Indians should be the second largest group of people to die from terrorists attacks. Indian majorities do not have anything to do with the Danish cartoon or the death of Saddam Hussain; so why should they suffer from Islamic havoc on those occasions. In almost all occasions of terrorism, questions are raised about possible role of Pakistan, its terror bases and its terrorist organizations, as either directly or indirectly involved. Be it state sponsored (as recently admitted by President Zardari) or by non-state actors, Pakistan or Pakistani born are prime suspect in terrorist activities all over the world. ISI has been accused of playing a role in major terrorist attacks including 9/11 in the USA, terrorism in Kashmir, Mumbai Train Bombings, London Bombings, Indian Parliament Attack, Varanasi bombings, Hyderabad bombings, Mumbai terror attacks or the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul. Do you believe these are marks of a good neighbour? Then what is the reason for your preaching of love towards Pakistan? Perhaps, as you said, because it is your ancestor"s homeland, you have a soft feeling for Pakistan and cannot see the difference. On the eve of accepting an honorary doctorate from a British university, we heard you say, "I really believe we are the same ..when you come away from India or Pakistan you realize there is no Indian or Pakistani - we"re all together. We are - culturally, as human beings, as friends" Which Pakistanis are you referring to? The Pakistanis belonging to the land, admonished as the epicenter of global terrorism, not just by India or USA but even by its friendly allies like Iran or China. Or is it the self-created, Talibanic Pakistan, who still imposes Jijya on the non believers or finds pleasure in blowing up girl"s schools. Are you talking about its President class like the current Mr. Zardari, vowed to wage a 1,000-year war with India or the late Mrs. Bhutto who started Jihad in Kashmiri that lead to the exodus of Hindu minorities from the Muslim majority state of India, as refugees in their own country? Are you referring to Pakistanis loyal to the ISI and the military who train their soldiers with only one objective, i.e. to fight Hindu India? If your mind is concerned about the faceless mass of Pakistanis, does it also include the dwindling minorities? Or are you just concerned about the celebrities and the social elites? It is true SRK that we belong to the same human species but it is hard to stretch the similarities much further between "us" and "them". We from the same original land of Bharat but we want to keep her intact, they want to break it into thousand pieces. Our ancestors happen to be the same. We acknowledge and adore the heritage but they abhor and decimate whoever is available in an attempt to wipe out the link. We are culturally the same. We have created the culture over centuries what they dream to destroy in moments. Ours is a 10,000 year old civilization, theirs is a 62 years old country undoing whole human civilization. We extend our hands repeatedly to promote friendship and amity; they give us ISI, Lashkar, Harkat, Kashmir, Kargil and 26/11 in exchange. Do you think that the Indians nationals who died in all the above wars, the Indian soldiers who lost their lives in cross-border ceasefire violations or the Indian civilians who are killed by the ISI trained Islamic terrorists and their affiliates, in all those serial blasts, all over the country, willfully sacrificed their lives as a friendly neighbourhood gesture? Can you face the families of the victims of Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus or the martyrs of the Kargil war and try to explain to them that "They are good neighbours. Let us love each other." Can you explain why the two gunmen at Cama hospital, during the Mumbai carnage, asked the man who gave them water, what his religion was, and shot him dead when he said he was a Hindu? If you cannot, then perhaps you understand why the majority of India does not consider Pakistan as a good neighbour to have. Perhaps you believe that the peaceful religious co-existence that you created in your home (and we appreciate that) can be extended to the large world outside. As you rightly said, we Indians trust and do accept everybody but what you did fail to mention was that it is the Indic tradition, essentially coming out of its pre-Islamic Hindu ethos. If you think otherwise, show us a single Islamic country where the non-believers enjoy the same equality as the believers. Since partition, the Hindus left over in Pakistan and Bangladesh has suffered terribly. Strictly Islamic countries, like Saudi Arabia, do not allow any other religions to exist. Hindus working in the Gulf countries are not allowed to practice their religion in public. Saudi Arabia insists that India sends only a Muslim ambassador. Hindu Muslim unity by and large has generally been a matter of Hindus trying to please or accommodate Muslims. One cannot forget when Vajpayee was extending his hand for peace Musharraf was planning the Kargil insurgency. Let us remind you, your own statement "I am a Muslim in a country called India .We"ve never been made to feel this is a Hindu country." Can you find me a Hindu in Pakistan who can reciprocate that sentiment? Some years ago, another Mr. Khan, first name Feroze, from your fraternity was banned from entering Pakistan for saying, "India is secular unlike Pakistan". That is the basic difference of the land of "Hindu" India from the Islamic "pure land" of Pakistan. So please do not ask us to love Pakistan. Please do not lump the people of India and Pakistan together. We Indians are proud to preserve our separate identity. And please do not insult the land that gave you your life, name and fame, by claiming that her worst enemy, who wants to break her into 1000 pieces, is a great neighbour. Otherwise it would be sad if somebody accuses you of putting your religion ahead of your country. Please give it a thought. Regards, Arindam Bandyopadhyay. http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/Open-letter-Mr-Shahrukh-Khan-SRK/blog-348.htm   From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 17:04:30 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:04:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> Good one Javed ! This group would probably support you well for a well deserved Subject line. Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" by using this method. Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this group which started to doubt Batla House as well. Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... inflicted by 1000 cuts and the handlers of "non state actors". The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light vigils , while ignoring the threats in the name of "sickularism". And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where do i get designer candles.....!!! Hurt !!! Pawan PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially the brother sister from WB. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: > Pune And After > Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should > India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on > hold? > > B. Raman > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 > > Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials > indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented > German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of > terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and > possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came > into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to > the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in > the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, > that could have required any special training. The expertise involved > could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point > an accusing finger at Pakistan. > > The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and > activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the > Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of > Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for > targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were > used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected > target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi > and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his > interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was > interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. > > Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad > House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by > Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by > the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used > to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western > youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German > Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the > German Bakery was targeted. > > Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well > orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, > Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and > September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over > Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow > up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it > involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance > of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of > Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under > suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the > US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, > which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against > the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's > tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go > ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a > clear picture emerges? > > These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the > policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. > of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and > should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation > of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. > > B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of > India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical > Studies, Chennai. > > COMMENTS : > HAVE YOUR SAY > Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM > 21 > > Maha, > > >> what points? > > The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the > headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous > blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the > suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been > visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is > more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or > Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind > and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > reactions."" > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM > 20 > > Varun, > > >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and > obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want to > blame some Hindu group. > > Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from > you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open > mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM > 19 > > "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." > > what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk > propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There > some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are > turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. > > It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced > about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM > 18 > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > work. > Maha > > For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, > irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in > general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For > some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects > here would include Mossad and the CIA. > Varun Shekhar > Toronto, CANADA > Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM > 17 > > Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I > suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to > know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was > responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, > Sandeep. > http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ > Rama > sydney, Australia > Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM > 16 > > "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist" > > I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had > absolutely NO hand in the incident. > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM > 15 > > Maha, > > >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. > > It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM > 14 > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > work. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM > 13 > > Maha, > > Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a > way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". > > "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and > fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM > 12 > > "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" > > I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic > terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva > terrorists. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM > 11 > > " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all > possibilities ...." > > Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that > Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. > Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had > been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. > > In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of > Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India > should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should > avoid over or hasty reactions." > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM > 10 > > Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to > condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why > are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not > indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the > name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame > others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. > drharun > chennai, India > Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM > 9 > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" > > Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's > laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was > really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu > group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish > visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. > > This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious > and irrational people India is up against. > Varun Shekhar > Toronto, CANADA > Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM > 8 > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' > > Nasser > > Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try > to accept the truth. > a k ghai > mumbai, India > Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM > 7 > > http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm > > This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our > great neighbor. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM > 6 > > An excellent article > > http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > 5 > > Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on > the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police > officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in > blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in > Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in > these blasts. > nasar > Raleigh, USA > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > 4 > > A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is > not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What > diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. > > I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? > And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to > justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the > govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the > culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? > > What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has > been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has > been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the > attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and > makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling > the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this > bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have > been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. > > But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about > terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. > In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, > we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror > attack. > > And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to > justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM > 3 > > Dear Mr Raman; > > This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate > attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose > interests are these rouge elements serving? > > What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards > the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to > accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or > stall the new initiatives? > > If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any > 'strings attached'? > > Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose > interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? > > What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on > other's designs? > > The root might be more political and economic, as; > > a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of > dollars involved in the stake. > > b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and > Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of > anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to > concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to > balance the threat from further north. > > c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences > or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also > the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with > Pakistan. > > d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if > ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the > present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this > regard? > > e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted > to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some > sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , > especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? > > f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert > attention from the recent MNIK controversy? > > If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in > the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the > talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. > > JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm > JJohn > Kottayam, India > Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM > 2 > > The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the > Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's > Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection > to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. > S.S.Nagaraj > Bangalore, India > Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM > 1 > > It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want > access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire > west. China also wants access to indian Market. > > Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods > to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is > huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure > and all of them will fall in line. > > Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on > propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will > fall in line. > vibhaas, Doha > vibhaas > Doha, qatar > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 17:22:34 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:22:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Wanted: Facilitator for a project on study circles and education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: wisdomdobe Date: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 Subject: study circles and education The following is a pilot project in Tibet to apply study circles to education. This group is looking for a facilitator with experience in using the study circles method or peer-to-peer learning. Their note is below and you can respond directly to alan at nighttrainconsulting.com by February 14th. >From Alan Webb and Jeff Bordogna: This is a call to professional facilitators with an interest in education, who would like to discuss what role the facilitation community could have in creating new opportunities for educators and students. In particular, what new market opportunities are created in the education sector for professional facilitators by the explosion of free, high-quality educational materials on the web (MIT OpenCourseWare, iTunesU, Open University, etc.)? For the especially interested, we are also looking for collaborators who want to participate in grant submissions with us. There is a lot of conversation right now about how digital tools and resources will transform education, and we at the Third Arena project know that technology is only part of the solution. Digital educational resources on their own do not make a classroom. Face-to-face, human interaction, and personal development make up the other, bigger part of the equation. We all know this intuitively; otherwise, why else does anyone go to college, when you could just buy books and read them on your own? In a world where students of all ages can now learn from the best subject-matter experts, for free, from high-quality lectures and multimedia online, the Third Arena project promotes the vision that communities should be able to organically organize face-to-face conversations around those resources to enhance and socially support each other. We are piloting this approach in Tibet, and we are also in the early stages of building a toolkit, modeled after my.barackobama.com, to allow facilitators, community leaders, retired teachers, librarians, parents, even corporations, to organize study circles around these resources in order to get the same social and economic benefits you would get from enrolling in a University (e.g. the social reinforcement of your peers, movie ticket / health insurance discounts, market signaling to an employer). We would like the feedback of your community on both our model, and on ways to improve our approach. For more details, please see our submission to the recent "Reimaging Learning" grant competition, by the MacArthur Foundation, National Lab Day, Duke, and others ( http://www.dmlcompetition.net/pligg/story.php?title=556), or visit our website at www.ThirdArena.com . We welcome feedback from your community about this topic and would especially appreciate hearing from anyone who is interesting in collaborating on our current grant submissions! Thanks!" Alan and Jeff __._,_.___ From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Feb 15 17:30:50 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?[the=5Fnetwork}?=) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:00:50 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?NewMediaFest=272010_-_week_08_-_prev?= =?iso-8859-1?q?iew?= Message-ID: <20100215130051.4ABAC81A.DDABD487@192.168.0.2> NewMediaFest'2010 Week 08 - 15-21 February 2010 program preview --> http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=517 _________________________ Feature & venue of the week 08 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=512 CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival - is celebrating its 5th anniversary in India on CeC - Carnival of e-Creativity at Sattal, Uttarkhand - the Himalaya state. by presenting it entire screening program of CologneOFF V - the latest festival released in November 2009. CeC2010 is co-curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne who is also the director and curator of CologneOFF. Find the films and directors listed on http://theaea.org/cec_cac/cec10/index.htm __________________________ Feature of the month February 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=436 During February, VideoChannel's new project release "SFC - Shoah Film Collection" is spotlighted in daily solo features on VAD - Video art Database --> http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1641 Monday - Brian Delevie (USA) Tuesday - Anders Weberg (SWE) Wednesday - Cezary Ostrowski (Poland) Thursday - Dana Levy (Israel) Friday - Felice Hapetzeder (SWE) Saturday - Konstantinos-Antonios Goutos (Greece) Sunday - Paolo Bonfiglio (Italy) __________________________ Feature of the year 2010 is the ongoing netart journal, entitled: Celebrate! released in daily features by JavaMuseum - Foruim for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art Starting on 10 January 2010, Celebrate! will have featured until the end of this year a representative overview of the netart production of the past 10 years. Find Celebrate! on http://2010.javamuseum.org __________________________ Further, VideoChannel is presenting in solo features on VAD - Video Art Database Video Art from Ukraine --> http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1797 & CologneOFF is presenting in daily solo features on VAD - Video Art Database the entire CologneOFF IV program structure "Here We Are!" on http://vad.nmartproject.net/?page_id=1632 ___________________________________________ Find the complete weekly program on http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=517 and the features of today, 15 February 2010 on http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=523 ___________________________________________ NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org director and chief curator: Wilfried Agricola de Cologne calls for entries --> for NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?page_id=78 downloads http://2010.newmediafest.org/?page_id=87 newmediafest2010 [at] koeln.de ---------------------------------------------------- Join NewMediaFest'2010 on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=404197070650 ---------------------------------------------------- From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Feb 14 22:12:24 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:12:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER In-Reply-To: References: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55E46D33-030C-4D52-BA57-240F7573CECE@sarai.net> Dear Rakesh, A threat of violence cannot be construed to be a legitimate expression of the freedom of speech. In fact it is the threat and the intimidation that constitute an attack on the freedom of speech and simple liberty of others. There are simple provisions in the criminal law for tackling anyone who threatens violence and intimidates people. I agree with what was said in a previous posting, the Thackeray clan, father, son and nephew should all be held under house arrest, with no contact with the media. It will solve the whole problem, and the Shiv Sena and the MNS will both be revealed to be the paper tigers that they actually are. best Shuddha On 14-Feb-10, at 4:45 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Malik jee > > The Maharashtra govt. hasn't done anything of substance to suggest > (except > for the recent arrest of Shiv Sainiks who were involved in violent > activities) that they are serious in taking on this problem. The > simplest > strategy could have been to house arrest the entire Thackeray clan > and keep > them in house arrest (without anybody meeting them or their views > being > heard out) for the next 6 months or so. Things would have improved > automatically. Once goons are not heard, things turn to sanity. > > I do understand that some may comment here, that it's an attack on > freedom > of speech. To that I would respond by saying that freedom of speech > has a > limit that it shouldn't result in loss of freedoms or rights of other > individuals, and if it does so, then it has to be curtailed, > howsoever much > we may dislike it. What the Thackerays are indulging in are plain > threats, > and they should be put behind bars for inciting people to commit > violence. > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From aliens at dataone.in Mon Feb 15 18:08:10 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:08:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan (By: Bandyopadhyay Arindam) In-Reply-To: <862304.24383.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <862304.24383.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901caae3b$bbbf9980$333ecc80$@in> GOOD ARTICLE BY Bandyopadhyay Arindam -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:47 PM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan (By: Bandyopadhyay Arindam) "Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan" By: Bandyopadhyay Arindam Jan-31-2010 Your name is a household phenomenon in Indian and even beyond her borders. Your fame has put you in the Newsweek "most powerful people list" recently. However, as you may recall from your recent experience in New Jersey Airport, real life is a little different - it does not always follow the path predicted by a scriptwriter or director. Of late, we have been reading about your opinions and statements on matters beyond the celluloid world. Nothing is wrong in it. You live in a free, democratic country and are entirely entitled to your opinion. But as a common man, also from the same soil, I think I have the right too to raise a few points that may not conform to your views of the real world. I hope you will read it out. When recently, the Pakistani players were not selected for the IPL, it was almost predictable that NDTV, the award-winning, mouthpiece of our Indian liberal media select you for your views and you certified that "It (Pakistan) is a great neighbour to have. We (India and Pakistan) are great neighbours. They are good neighbours." I have a few words to say about those statements. One may recall your effort to clarify the Pakistani team captain, Shoaib Malik"s apology to the Muslims, living all over the world, for failing to win the final T20 match against India, likely much to the embarrassment of a lot of Indian Muslims, as expressed by Shamin Bano, mother of the man of the match, Irfan Pathan. What was more embarrassing was your effort to try to defend Shoaib in a subsequent interview, "I don"t think he meant to segregate Muslims and Christians and Hindus and say this was a match between Islam and Hinduism. I don"t think that..." I doubt whether Shoaib talked to you personally about his thought process at that time. You did not really have to respond for somebody else but perhaps you could not resist the temptation to show your brotherhood and solidarity. This reminds us again of Dr Ambedkar"s observation that, "The brotherhood of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is brotherhood of Muslims for Muslims only. Partition of India was what Pakistan wanted and got. It was painful to millions but many more millions in present India have been spared. Since then Pakistan has offered us only hatred. It has imposed on us three major wars, the Kargil insurgency, the Kashmir conflict, the series of serial blasts, the routine violation of border ceasefires, attacks on the Parliament House and the recent Mumbai 26/11attack. Did you have these in mind when you talked about them being good neighbours? In another interview you had tried to explain the concept of Islamic Jihad. "I think one needs to understand the meaning of jihad .. I"ve understood the essence that jihad is not about killing other people; jihad is about killing the badness in you." May be you understand jihad better and deeper than the superficial meaning of what we, the rest of the mortal mankind, overburdened and terrorized by the inter-religious, intra-religious and sectarian violence that is plaguing the world in the name of Islam today, do. For we, the less educated, cannot really make a difference between Jihad and Qatl, between Jihad by heart / soul, Jihad by pen and Jihad by sword or between lesser and greater jihad. We wonder, whatever its meaning may be, does it minimize the significance of the mindless killings that we see today in the name of Islam, across borders, all over the world? Does it change the nature of the killers whether you call them holy warriors, mujahidins, fedayeens or plane suicide bombers? We agree with you that terrorism has no religion. But hopefully you will also agree with the people who perceive that most terrorist in the world today happen to believe in the scriptures of Islam. They actually believe that they themselves are the true Islamists. The so called "moderate" Islamist, perhaps does not want to contradict them or may be does not dare to speak out against them. You have probably not forgotten the FIR against you for listing Prophet Mohammed as one of the most unimpressive personalities in history, the threats from which you had to skillfully wriggle out. Others who are not so fortunate, famous or flexible are suffering lifetime, as Tasleema Nasreen or Salman Rushdie would testify. For blasphemy in Islam is punishable with death, even for a believer. Do I have to spell out the fate if it is a non-believer? It is due to the inherent intolerance and exclusivity of Islam itself despite your effort to convince us that there is an Islam from Allah and very unfortunately, there is an Islam from the Mullahs Here is an historical insight from writer Irfan Hussain, "The Muslim heroes who figure larger than life in our history books committed some dreadful crimes..all have blood-stained hands that the passage of years has not cleansed. Indeed, the presence of Muslim historians on their various campaigns has ensured that the memory of their deeds will live long after they were buried...Seen through Hindu eyes, the Muslim invasion of their homeland was an unmitigated disaster." So why should the "non-believers" care to accept them? Why should the majority of Indians like to welcome back such disasters again? Since partition, India has come a long way in progress and development to her current status and is projected as an economic superpower in coming decades while Pakistan is perceived as a failed state on the verge of disintegration. What does India have to gain by offering neighbourly friendship to such a hostile and failed state? India has never been an invader and is not in conflict of any other Muslim country. None of the wars and conflicts with Pakistan was instigated by India. In the current geopolitical situation, one can argue for the Muslim world"s grudge and anger against Israel or the west and USA but one fail to fathom why India should also be at the receiving end and why Indians should be the second largest group of people to die from terrorists attacks. Indian majorities do not have anything to do with the Danish cartoon or the death of Saddam Hussain; so why should they suffer from Islamic havoc on those occasions. In almost all occasions of terrorism, questions are raised about possible role of Pakistan, its terror bases and its terrorist organizations, as either directly or indirectly involved. Be it state sponsored (as recently admitted by President Zardari) or by non-state actors, Pakistan or Pakistani born are prime suspect in terrorist activities all over the world. ISI has been accused of playing a role in major terrorist attacks including 9/11 in the USA, terrorism in Kashmir, Mumbai Train Bombings, London Bombings, Indian Parliament Attack, Varanasi bombings, Hyderabad bombings, Mumbai terror attacks or the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul. Do you believe these are marks of a good neighbour? Then what is the reason for your preaching of love towards Pakistan? Perhaps, as you said, because it is your ancestor"s homeland, you have a soft feeling for Pakistan and cannot see the difference. On the eve of accepting an honorary doctorate from a British university, we heard you say, "I really believe we are the same ..when you come away from India or Pakistan you realize there is no Indian or Pakistani - we"re all together. We are - culturally, as human beings, as friends" Which Pakistanis are you referring to? The Pakistanis belonging to the land, admonished as the epicenter of global terrorism, not just by India or USA but even by its friendly allies like Iran or China. Or is it the self-created, Talibanic Pakistan, who still imposes Jijya on the non believers or finds pleasure in blowing up girl"s schools. Are you talking about its President class like the current Mr. Zardari, vowed to wage a 1,000-year war with India or the late Mrs. Bhutto who started Jihad in Kashmiri that lead to the exodus of Hindu minorities from the Muslim majority state of India, as refugees in their own country? Are you referring to Pakistanis loyal to the ISI and the military who train their soldiers with only one objective, i.e. to fight Hindu India? If your mind is concerned about the faceless mass of Pakistanis, does it also include the dwindling minorities? Or are you just concerned about the celebrities and the social elites? It is true SRK that we belong to the same human species but it is hard to stretch the similarities much further between "us" and "them". We from the same original land of Bharat but we want to keep her intact, they want to break it into thousand pieces. Our ancestors happen to be the same. We acknowledge and adore the heritage but they abhor and decimate whoever is available in an attempt to wipe out the link. We are culturally the same. We have created the culture over centuries what they dream to destroy in moments. Ours is a 10,000 year old civilization, theirs is a 62 years old country undoing whole human civilization. We extend our hands repeatedly to promote friendship and amity; they give us ISI, Lashkar, Harkat, Kashmir, Kargil and 26/11 in exchange. Do you think that the Indians nationals who died in all the above wars, the Indian soldiers who lost their lives in cross-border ceasefire violations or the Indian civilians who are killed by the ISI trained Islamic terrorists and their affiliates, in all those serial blasts, all over the country, willfully sacrificed their lives as a friendly neighbourhood gesture? Can you face the families of the victims of Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus or the martyrs of the Kargil war and try to explain to them that "They are good neighbours. Let us love each other." Can you explain why the two gunmen at Cama hospital, during the Mumbai carnage, asked the man who gave them water, what his religion was, and shot him dead when he said he was a Hindu? If you cannot, then perhaps you understand why the majority of India does not consider Pakistan as a good neighbour to have. Perhaps you believe that the peaceful religious co-existence that you created in your home (and we appreciate that) can be extended to the large world outside. As you rightly said, we Indians trust and do accept everybody but what you did fail to mention was that it is the Indic tradition, essentially coming out of its pre-Islamic Hindu ethos. If you think otherwise, show us a single Islamic country where the non-believers enjoy the same equality as the believers. Since partition, the Hindus left over in Pakistan and Bangladesh has suffered terribly. Strictly Islamic countries, like Saudi Arabia, do not allow any other religions to exist. Hindus working in the Gulf countries are not allowed to practice their religion in public. Saudi Arabia insists that India sends only a Muslim ambassador. Hindu Muslim unity by and large has generally been a matter of Hindus trying to please or accommodate Muslims. One cannot forget when Vajpayee was extending his hand for peace Musharraf was planning the Kargil insurgency. Let us remind you, your own statement "I am a Muslim in a country called India .We"ve never been made to feel this is a Hindu country." Can you find me a Hindu in Pakistan who can reciprocate that sentiment? Some years ago, another Mr. Khan, first name Feroze, from your fraternity was banned from entering Pakistan for saying, "India is secular unlike Pakistan". That is the basic difference of the land of "Hindu" India from the Islamic "pure land" of Pakistan. So please do not ask us to love Pakistan. Please do not lump the people of India and Pakistan together. We Indians are proud to preserve our separate identity. And please do not insult the land that gave you your life, name and fame, by claiming that her worst enemy, who wants to break her into 1000 pieces, is a great neighbour. Otherwise it would be sad if somebody accuses you of putting your religion ahead of your country. Please give it a thought. Regards, Arindam Bandyopadhyay. http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/Open-letter-Mr-Shahrukh-Khan-SRK/blog-348.htm _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 18:22:09 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:22:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER In-Reply-To: <55E46D33-030C-4D52-BA57-240F7573CECE@sarai.net> References: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <55E46D33-030C-4D52-BA57-240F7573CECE@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha What I wish to clarify here is regarding my statement on 'freedom of speech'. What I mean is that people are free to hold their views. In that regard, Thackeray is free to hold the view that Shahrukh is a 'traitor', that shouldn't be an issue here. Where Thackeray does wrong is inciting people to commit violence against Shahrukh because he is a traitor. If Thackeray feels so, let him go to a court of law and register a case against Shahrukh for acting against India. As per the Constitution, if indeed it is found to be true, the court will punish Shahrukh accordingly. Instead, politics today has turned into mobocracy, whereby anybody who has a mob behind him/her can do as he/she feels, irrespective of the problems it creates for the others. Such politics should be deplored, and anybody practicing it should be put behind bars. Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 18:29:08 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:29:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: Indo-Pak Peace Process : A Mirage?? In-Reply-To: <768773.75346.qm@web112620.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <768773.75346.qm@web112620.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's a huge disconnect between the Indian elite and the Indian masses as well. This is reflected in many things across the country, some examples below are put up to highlight the points: 1) The complete lack of finding out electoral verdicts particularly in the General elections, and even more mediocre kind of reasoning given by news channels, media and the elites to explain electoral verdicts (where some useless reasons are coined out every time, without even knowing the ground reality or some basic depth of understanding of Indian elections). 2) The problem of Naxalism, whose origin and spreading itself shows how elites are totally cut-off from the ground. Nobody knows what is going on in Operation Greenhunt, and probably the elites hardly care; after all, iron ore is more important than lives of the people. 3) The idea of development. There is a complete lack of understanding of how the poor perceive development. This is also shown through the understanding of Naxalism. For the rich, development simply means more money and good roads. For the poor, health, education and dignity-related issues are found out to be much more important than say Naxalism. At the risk of sounding Communist, I will say that the Indian elites have simply captured the process of democracy to ensure that only people among them can rule over the country, while the masses have only elections to express their views. In reality, democracy is absent. What is present, is mobocracy. Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 18:33:05 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:33:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There is no such thing as a 'Hindu' or 'Islamic' way of life. There are multiple 'Hindu' ways of life, and so also multiple 'Islamic' ways of life. A Tamil Hindu has a different way of life from a Kashmiri Pandit. And even within Tamil Nadu, there are different ways of life of different classes and castes of Hindu. The same is true for Muslims also. Commonities are also found, but so also differences. A Kerala Muslim is completely different from a Uttar Pradesh Muslim, as I find in my class. All those spokespersons who feel there is a way of life, let them follow it. Don't impose it on others. It's this religion which will be the death of all, rather than any famine or water crisis, as it seems now. Rakesh From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 18:57:35 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:57:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER In-Reply-To: References: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <55E46D33-030C-4D52-BA57-240F7573CECE@sarai.net> Message-ID: <341380d01002150527h7e3f9b48p6aac84b9330a5c30@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Spewing hate for Pakistan is like a traditional household game. So much of gusto when people suddenly (almost gleefully) type out the choicest words (that could be only used on a unrepentant neighbour), so much of fervour in claiming how great is this country being tolerable to the point that it after 1000 or 800 years, some of the concerned citizens suddenly realise that their forefathers were weak, could not withstand an invasion and had to submit to it. Therefore, now an urgency of defence through a counter narrative in history (see your forefathers came here, destroyed, demolished what we had … and now you must pay for this). It is even more thrilling to know that for the past 60 odd years, we have fought three battles with Pakistan. We raced for nuclear bombs, we lobbied for Kashmir in UNSC (unmindful of what a ordinary Kashmiri wants), and we played bus-bus only to be followed by post cold war skirmish in Kargil. What drama! Some of us might forget, this actor called Shahrukh Khan also played the role of Fauji (a common word used for a soldier in both sides of the border) in TV serial. As a child, I would not understand most of what has been said but the fact he is good guy (a soldier) slaying enemies (could be on the other side of border but essentially bad guys). Increasingly, the scenes of this drama have become ugly because these few players toeing the traditional lines of love or hate thy neighbour. The names keep changing but the line of diplomacy (oscillating between the positions of extreme love and extreme hate). Mind you, both the nation states have over a billion people who do not even know what expression is, who do not even know (if you were to shuttle between North West Frontier Province and Gadhchiroli) that who this great man/woman is, who runs the show for them. Statecraft has not yet reached here, and fortunately nor did historical narratives, which could overthrow their oral and simplistic traditions of myths. Therefore, it could be deduced that most of this urgent sense of defending each other’s nation states is coming from this small urban (or in process of getting urban) pockets, exposed to tirade of information through channels of media. I am also shocked that some of the writers immediately take positions depending on the flavour of the season and locale. In 1984, it would have been Sikhs, if a bomb such as the one that tore apart German Bakery in Pune would have happened in Punjab, and in 1992, if the bomb was placed in a upmarket Guwahati, it would have been NE rebels, but now in Pune, so there seems to be more confusion (after all it has been a seat of media/security establishment coined organisations such as Abhinav Bharat or Indian Mujaheedin). What angers me the most is how political goons take advantage of these situations to woo masses. It becomes easier for the media to trap a celebrity and make him/her a scapegoat because once expression as a tool is realised by an individual, everything about it is theatrical, profound or may be honest too. Bigots of Indian politics (I don’t want to name them here because their names ring cash registers … sometimes more than what a Bollywood actor gets as a compensation for entertaining) immediately know how to stage the attack against such vulnerability. It is like a character assassination in which media’s malleable opinion could be turned on his/her favour as these goons and their agents shuttling between the underbellies of the society and corridors of power dig out the dirt for you. It would not be surprising to find that these characters, the so called voice of the masses blow up, when a confused person suddenly asks about his pin up hero: “But what has he done?” “Don’t you know, he is an actor, people worship him, how can he be so irresponsible?” the goon would say. Describing this goon, a man who I met on a train day before yesterday said that actually you know what, these goons are jealous of the film actors. “You see, it is always this film hero who walks with honours. This small time goon who wanted to be somebody in life, now makes money but most of it is illegal, carries an unwanted tag of a social worker, has to engage in sloganeering. He wants a break but is carrying too much of this illusion called responsibility. Why not direct it towards the someone who is extremely vulnerable, while I could think of a next plot”. Perhaps the only forgotten character in this parable is a lunatic, who is perched on a tree somewhere in no man’s land between two international borders. His name is Toba Tek Singh. He deserves his lunacy, like you deserve your sanity to be on the either side of this proverbial fence. If you are victimising people who you have idolised to such an extant that now you cannot even tolerate their own rights of expression, there is something clearly wrong with you. These actors have expressed for you over the years fitting into the roles that you wanted to see in the silver screens. You have perhaps clapped thousands of times listening to them. This mail would not give him any endorsement or a film contract. Nor will it add to my curriculum vitae. Nor am I great fan of Shahrukh Khan’s movies. I just remember him as the Fauji. Too bad, none of you in this list who crying out loud about his comments are not yet shaken up by an act of this political goon who has crippled one of the largest trade centre of the country just to assert his own territorial supremacy. -Anupam On 2/15/10, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Shuddha > > What I wish to clarify here is regarding my statement on 'freedom of > speech'. What I mean is that people are free to hold their views. In that > regard, Thackeray is free to hold the view that Shahrukh is a 'traitor', > that shouldn't be an issue here. Where Thackeray does wrong is inciting > people to commit violence against Shahrukh because he is a traitor. If > Thackeray feels so, let him go to a court of law and register a case against > Shahrukh for acting against India. As per the Constitution, if indeed it is > found to be true, the court will punish Shahrukh accordingly. > > Instead, politics today has turned into mobocracy, whereby anybody who has a > mob behind him/her can do as he/she feels, irrespective of the problems it > creates for the others. Such politics should be deplored, and anybody > practicing it should be put behind bars. > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Mon Feb 15 19:12:47 2010 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 05:42:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: Indo-Pak Peace Process : A Mirage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <850373.98310.qm@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I would like to suggest.   It is better to stay focussed on what the topic is. Otherwise, by bringing in all other issues, it creates a mess.   The topic is one of possibility of peace between India and Pakistan and what impacts that process. You could discuss the other issues under a new thread.   I had already written "It could be said that to some extent and in some form in India also there is a disconnect between the elite and the masses in the attitude towards Pakistan."   Thanks   ............ aalok aima   --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Reg: Indo-Pak Peace Process : A Mirage?? To: "cashmeeri" Cc: "sarai list" , "Aashish Gupta" Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 15:59 There's a huge disconnect between the Indian elite and the Indian masses as well. This is reflected in many things across the country, some examples below are put up to highlight the points: 1) The complete lack of finding out electoral verdicts particularly in the General elections, and even more mediocre kind of reasoning given by news channels, media and the elites to explain electoral verdicts (where some useless reasons are coined out every time, without even knowing the ground reality or some basic depth of understanding of Indian elections). 2) The problem of Naxalism, whose origin and spreading itself shows how elites are totally cut-off from the ground. Nobody knows what is going on in Operation Greenhunt, and probably the elites hardly care; after all, iron ore is more important than lives of the people. 3) The idea of development. There is a complete lack of understanding of how the poor perceive development. This is also shown through the understanding of Naxalism. For the rich, development simply means more money and good roads. For the poor, health, education and dignity-related issues are found out to be much more important than say Naxalism. At the risk of sounding Communist, I will say that the Indian elites have simply captured the process of democracy to ensure that only people among them can rule over the country, while the masses have only elections to express their views. In reality, democracy is absent. What is present, is mobocracy. Rakesh From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Mon Feb 15 19:45:56 2010 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:15:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? Message-ID: <836379.49206.qm@web112601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Anil Athale in his Rediff article "Peace with Pakistan: Chasing a mirage" referred to Pakistani Textbooks teaching the children to hate India and Hindus. http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/feb/11/peace-with-pakistan-chasing-a-mirage.htm   Nirupama Subramanian, correspondent for The Hindu in Pakistan, in her article "Awaiting changes to a syllabus of hate" gives an expanded view  on the hate taught in Pakistani Textbooks.   It will be educative towards understanding why "Aman Ki Asha" could possibly be "A Foolish Asha".   It is relevant to mention that the Textbooks mentioned are from the National Curriculum. Expectedly, what is taught in the Madrassas would be more heightened in preaching and propagating hate.   Under Musharraf, "For three years, 30 scholars commissioned by SDPI pored over textbooks in four subjects taught for Classes 1 to 12: Social Studies/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and Civics."   They detailed the hate taught and the selectivity in recounting history, in their 2004 report, "The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan."   This "became the basis for a major revision of the national curriculum undertaken by the Musharraf regime in 2006."   New Texbooks with the proposed changes have not been introduced in Pakistan as yet.   Physicist Dr AH Nayyar says "My fear, is that the government may not have the political strength to bring in a progressive education policy. They may succumb to pressures of various kinds and end up bringing in a hopelessly muddled policy."   Physicist Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy says  "Another generation has been lost because the process has taken too long," . And until the new textbooks are introduced, millions of children will continue to learn in their Urdu lessons in schools about the differences between Hindus and Muslims in a hatred-generating way, about "India’s evil designs against Pakistan" in their Social Studies, and that Bangladesh was a result of a conspiracy by India with assistance from "Hindus living in East Pakistan."   ........... aalok aima     http://www.sacw.net/article953.html   Will Pakistan’s schools get a curriculum that weed’s out hate? Tuesday, 9 June 2009 / Nirupama Subramanian   The Hindu, June 9, 2009 Awaiting changes to a syllabus of hate by Nirupama Subramanian   All the focus is on madrasa reforms but Pakistan’s schools are also seen as encouraging extremism, while the government has shown little urgency about implementing a revised curriculum.   On a recent weekday afternoon, a small group of youngsters gathered at a meeting hall in Islamabad to discuss how to combat extremism, militancy and terrorism in Pakistan. Listed were top-notch speakers, including two members of Parliament and the well-known physicist, Pervez Hoodbhoy.   Dr. Hoodbhoy, who teaches at the Quaid-e-Azam University in the Pakistan capital, spoke passionately and at length, on a theme that he has worked to highlight for years: the education imparted to Pakistani children is flawed and encourages extremism, intolerance and ignorance. He showed the group, mostly undergraduate students, slides from an illustrated primer for the Urdu alphabet he picked from a shop in Rawalpindi: alif for Allah; bay for bandook (gun); tay for takrao (collision, shown by a plane crashing into the Twin Towers); jeem for jihad; kay for khanjar (dagger); and hay for hijab.   This was not a prescribed textbook, but another set of slides he showed had excerpts from a 1995 government-approved curriculum for Social Studies, which stated that at the end of Class V, the child should be able to acknowledge and identify forces that may be working against Pakistan; demonstrate by actions a belief in the fear of Allah; make speeches on jehad and shahadat (martyrdom); understand Hindu-Muslim differences and the resultant need for Pakistan; India´s evil designs against Pakistan; be safe from rumour-mongers who spread false news; visit police stations; collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and National Guards; and demonstrate respect for the leaders of Pakistan.   "Instead of teaching our children about the nice things in this world like the colours of flowers, about the wonders of the universe, we are teaching them to hate," he said. The school curriculum was one reason, he said, why Pakistanis were in denial that the militants and extremists now terrorising the entire country were home-grown products, and why many tended to externalise the problem with conspiracy theories about an "external" hand.   At the end of the discussion, which included a question-and-answer session, the group was asked how many thought Pakistan´s present problems were the consequence of an "Indian hand." A quarter of the group put up its hands. Next, the students were asked how many thought the problems were the result of an American conspiracy to destabilise Pakistan and deprive it of its nuclear weapons: more than three-fourths of the group sent their hands up without a moment´s hesitation.   The irony was that this was the "youth group" of a non-governmental organisation, the Liberal Forum of Pakistan. The students had reserved their maximum applause for a speaker who projected the widespread line that Pakistan´s problems began only after 2001, and are the fallout of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.   "Was there a single incident of terrorism before that? A single suicide bombing? No." he said. The speaker was an official of the Ministry of Youth Affairs.   In the search for solutions to the crisis sweeping Pakistan and threatening to tear it apart, the international community has tended to focus on madrasas as "terrorist factories." But for Dr. Hoodbhoy and others who have been fighting a long battle for urgent changes in Pakistan´s national school curriculum and the prescribed school textbooks, children getting a government-approved education in the public school system are at equal risk.   "Madrasas are not the only institutions breeding hate, intolerance, a distorted world view. The educational material in government-run schools do much more than madrasas. The textbooks tell lies, create hatred, inculcate militancy…" This was the damning conclusion of a landmark research project by the Islamabad-based Sustainable Development Policy Institute.   For three years, 30 scholars commissioned by SDPI pored over textbooks in four subjects taught for Classes 1 to 12: Social Studies/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and Civics. The startling findings of their labour came out in a 2004 publication, "The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan."   The much-written about research unleashed a huge debate on what was being taught in Pakistan´s schools, and became the basis for a major revision of the national curriculum undertaken by the Musharraf regime in 2006. The new curriculum has made several big changes. There is a conscious move to teach tolerance and respect for diversity, and the open vilification of India is absent. It also does not insist on imposing Islamic religious teaching on non-Muslim students. Religion is to be taught in focussed courses, rather than being infused in Social Studies, Civics, Urdu and English.   Unfortunately, so far, no move has been made to introduce new textbooks that reflect the changes. "The revised curriculum is a huge departure from the earlier one. But whether the changes it prescribes will be implemented at all is not clear to us. The more it is delayed, the less and less we are sure it is going to come," said A.H. Nayyar, research fellow at SDPI and one of the initiators of the project.   The changes in the curriculum are up on the Internet site of the Ministry of Education. For Grades 4 and 5 Social Studies, the curriculum has dropped the learning outcomes prescribed by the 1995 and 2002 curricula, focussing instead on providing an "unbiased" education that aims to build informed citizens equipped with analytical skills and "values such as equality, social justice, fairness, diversity, and respect for self and diverse opinions of others."   The SDPI recommendation that history be taught as a separate subject instead of being lumped into Pakistan Studies was accepted by the framers of the revised curriculum. So, for the first time, a curriculum has been framed for history as a separate subject from Grades 6 to 8.   In contrast to the earlier approach in the Pakistan Studies curriculum, in which the history of Pakistan begins with the day the first Muslim set foot in India, the revised curriculum includes a study of the Indus valley civilisation, of Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, and of the ancient Maurya and Gupta dynasties.   The curriculum appears keen to emphasise a composite South Asian history from which Pakistan took birth including the "joint Hindu-Muslim" efforts in the struggle for independence. The Pakistan Studies curriculum for Grades 9 and 10 wants children to learn about the multicultural heritage of Pakistan and "get used to the idea of unity in diversity," a big no-no earlier. The revised curriculum also has a component on "peace studies" and conflict resolution.   One reason new textbooks based on the revised curriculum have not come out yet, Dr. Nayyar speculated, may be that the 1998 national educational policy introduced by the shortlived Nawaz Sharif government, remains in force till 2010. The Pakistan People´s Party-led government could be waiting to introduce its own education policy, and usher in the changes to the curriculum and the textbooks along with this, he said.   Even the draft new education policy is ready, based on a two-year-old White Paper. It too reflects a major shift from the 1998 policy, which laid down that education should enable the citizens to lead their lives as true practising Muslims according to the teachings of Islam as prescribed in the Quran and Sunnah. It also made the teaching of Nazra Quran a compulsory subject from Grades 1 to 8, and the learning of selected verses from the Quran thereafter, in clear violation of the Constitution that Islam will not be imposed on non-Muslims.   By contrast, the draft new policy makes it clear that only Muslim children will be provided instruction in Islamiyat, while minorities will be provided an education in their own religion. The new policy will provide the framework for the implementing the new curriculum and introducing new textbooks.   The bad news is that in April, the federal Cabinet put off approving the draft indefinitely. Only after the Cabinet approves the policy can it be placed before Parliament. A report in Dawn newspaper said the Cabinet wanted the Education Ministry to make the policy "more comprehensive, covering every aspect of education sector which needs improvement along with an implementable work plan." But no urgency is visible in the Ministry to get cracking on this task. Another concern is that the Education Minister is not known for his progressive views, especially on gender issues.   "My fear," said Dr. Nayyar, a soft-spoken physicist who retired from teaching at the Quaid-e-Azam University some years ago, "is that the government may not have the political strength to bring in a progressive education policy. They may succumb to pressures of various kinds and end up bringing in a hopelessly muddled policy."   Yet the need for reforms in education has never been as urgent and necessary as now. As Dr. Hoodbhoy has pointed out in several recent articles, while a physical takeover of Pakistan by the Taliban may be a far cry, extremist ideology has taken root in young minds across the country, thanks to a flawed education system.   Compared to the 1.5 million who study in madrasas, an estimated 20 million children are enrolled in government schools. Dr. Nayyar laments that in the five years since the publication of the SDPI report, children who were 11 years old at the time have completed their matriculation. They read the old textbooks, and learnt a way of thinking about themselves and the world that will prove hard to change.   "Another generation has been lost because the process has taken too long," he said. And until the new textbooks are introduced, millions of children will continue to learn in their Urdu lessons in schools about the differences between Hindus and Muslims in a hatred-generating way, about "India’s evil designs against Pakistan" in their Social Studies, and that Bangladesh was a result of a conspiracy by India with assistance from "Hindus living in East Pakistan." From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 19:53:43 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:23:43 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan (By: BandyopadhyayArindam) References: <862304.24383.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Political correctness aside, isolating Pakistan has worked to save some innocent people to die of bomb blasts. When there was a talk about resuming dialogue with Pakistan from India, 9 families were left for good without a dear one. Whenever Pakistan goes through international isolation, the bomb blasts in India decrease. Indians and Pakistanis, save some elites, cannot be friends for long. They are neighbors, and do we see too many people in the subcontinent too friendly with their neighbors? We know this captain of the losing team apologized to Muslims all over the world for losing to India and this guy was never punished for such unnecessary statement. Imran Khan went on public several times suggesting that he takes a match between India and Pakistan as Jihad, when he plays. Some TV channels refer to Indians as qafirs whenever they mention the country, its people or the government. The implication being that Muslims if they live in India are qafirs, I still remember a friendly PM, Benzir Bhutto's reference to Salman Khurshid as "Bare ka musalman" So can a friendship last long? Secondly, when it comes to IPL, a lethal combination of the 2 most lethal industries when it comes to dumbing down of the people in India, I will be glad if nobody from any team is allowed to play in such a league. But then it is not going to happen. SRK owns an IPL team, so why wouldn't he come up in open when he was told not to buy any Pakistani player? Why wouldn't he just refuse to participate. Now that his film was about to be released he comes up with a stance, can't we doubt his sincerety? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kshmendra Kaul" To: "sarai list" Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 6:16 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan (By: BandyopadhyayArindam) > "Open letter to Mr. Shahrukh Khan" > By: Bandyopadhyay Arindam > > Jan-31-2010 > > Your name is a household phenomenon in Indian and even beyond her borders. > Your fame has put you in the Newsweek "most powerful people list" > recently. However, as you may recall from your recent experience in New > Jersey Airport, real life is a little different - it does not always > follow the path predicted by a scriptwriter or director. > > Of late, we have been reading about your opinions and statements on > matters beyond the celluloid world. Nothing is wrong in it. You live in a > free, democratic country and are entirely entitled to your opinion. But as > a common man, also from the same soil, I think I have the right too to > raise a few points that may not conform to your views of the real world. > > I hope you will read it out. > > When recently, the Pakistani players were not selected for the IPL, it was > almost predictable that NDTV, the award-winning, mouthpiece of our Indian > liberal media select you for your views and you certified that "It > (Pakistan) is a great neighbour to have. We (India and Pakistan) are great > neighbours. They are good neighbours." > > I have a few words to say about those statements. > > One may recall your effort to clarify the Pakistani team captain, Shoaib > Malik"s apology to the Muslims, living all over the world, for failing to > win the final T20 match against India, likely much to the embarrassment of > a lot of Indian Muslims, as expressed by Shamin Bano, mother of the man of > the match, Irfan Pathan. What was more embarrassing was your effort to try > to defend Shoaib in a subsequent interview, "I don"t think he meant to > segregate Muslims and Christians and Hindus and say this was a match > between Islam and Hinduism. I don"t think that..." > > I doubt whether Shoaib talked to you personally about his thought process > at that time. You did not really have to respond for somebody else but > perhaps you could not resist the temptation to show your brotherhood and > solidarity. > > This reminds us again of Dr Ambedkar"s observation that, "The brotherhood > of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is brotherhood of > Muslims for Muslims only. > > Partition of India was what Pakistan wanted and got. It was painful to > millions but many more millions in present India have been spared. Since > then Pakistan has offered us only hatred. It has imposed on us three major > wars, the Kargil insurgency, the Kashmir conflict, the series of serial > blasts, the routine violation of border ceasefires, attacks on the > Parliament House and the recent Mumbai 26/11attack. > > Did you have these in mind when you talked about them being good > neighbours? > > In another interview you had tried to explain the concept of Islamic > Jihad. "I think one needs to understand the meaning of jihad .. I"ve > understood the essence that jihad is not about killing other people; jihad > is about killing the badness in you." > > May be you understand jihad better and deeper than the superficial meaning > of what we, the rest of the mortal mankind, overburdened and terrorized by > the inter-religious, intra-religious and sectarian violence that is > plaguing the world in the name of Islam today, do. For we, the less > educated, cannot really make a difference between Jihad and Qatl, between > Jihad by heart / soul, Jihad by pen and Jihad by sword or between lesser > and greater jihad. > > We wonder, whatever its meaning may be, does it minimize the significance > of the mindless killings that we see today in the name of Islam, across > borders, all over the world? Does it change the nature of the killers > whether you call them holy warriors, mujahidins, fedayeens or plane > suicide bombers? > > We agree with you that terrorism has no religion. But hopefully you will > also agree with the people who perceive that most terrorist in the world > today happen to believe in the scriptures of Islam. They actually believe > that they themselves are the true Islamists. > > The so called "moderate" Islamist, perhaps does not want to contradict > them or may be does not dare to speak out against them. You have probably > not forgotten the FIR against you for listing Prophet Mohammed as one of > the most unimpressive personalities in history, the threats from which you > had to skillfully wriggle out. Others who are not so fortunate, famous or > flexible are suffering lifetime, as Tasleema Nasreen or Salman Rushdie > would testify. For blasphemy in Islam is punishable with death, even for a > believer. > > Do I have to spell out the fate if it is a non-believer? > > It is due to the inherent intolerance and exclusivity of Islam itself > despite your effort to convince us that there is an Islam from Allah and > very unfortunately, there is an Islam from the Mullahs > > Here is an historical insight from writer Irfan Hussain, "The Muslim > heroes who figure larger than life in our history books committed some > dreadful crimes..all have blood-stained hands that the passage of years > has not cleansed. Indeed, the presence of Muslim historians on their > various campaigns has ensured that the memory of their deeds will live > long after they were buried...Seen through Hindu eyes, the Muslim invasion > of their homeland was an unmitigated disaster." > > So why should the "non-believers" care to accept them? Why should the > majority of Indians like to welcome back such disasters again? > > Since partition, India has come a long way in progress and development to > her current status and is projected as an economic superpower in coming > decades while Pakistan is perceived as a failed state on the verge of > disintegration. > > What does India have to gain by offering neighbourly friendship to such a > hostile and failed state? > > India has never been an invader and is not in conflict of any other Muslim > country. None of the wars and conflicts with Pakistan was instigated by > India. In the current geopolitical situation, one can argue for the Muslim > world"s grudge and anger against Israel or the west and USA but one fail > to fathom why India should also be at the receiving end and why Indians > should be the second largest group of people to die from terrorists > attacks. Indian majorities do not have anything to do with the Danish > cartoon or the death of Saddam Hussain; so why should they suffer from > Islamic havoc on those occasions. > > In almost all occasions of terrorism, questions are raised about possible > role of Pakistan, its terror bases and its terrorist organizations, as > either directly or indirectly involved. Be it state sponsored (as recently > admitted by President Zardari) or by non-state actors, Pakistan or > Pakistani born are prime suspect in terrorist activities all over the > world. ISI has been accused of playing a role in major terrorist attacks > including 9/11 in the USA, terrorism in Kashmir, Mumbai Train Bombings, > London Bombings, Indian Parliament Attack, Varanasi bombings, Hyderabad > bombings, Mumbai terror attacks or the attack on the Indian embassy in > Kabul. > > Do you believe these are marks of a good neighbour? Then what is the > reason for your preaching of love towards Pakistan? > > Perhaps, as you said, because it is your ancestor"s homeland, you have a > soft feeling for Pakistan and cannot see the difference. On the eve of > accepting an honorary doctorate from a British university, we heard you > say, "I really believe we are the same ..when you come away from India or > Pakistan you realize there is no Indian or Pakistani - we"re all together. > We are - culturally, as human beings, as friends" > > Which Pakistanis are you referring to? > > The Pakistanis belonging to the land, admonished as the epicenter of > global terrorism, not just by India or USA but even by its friendly allies > like Iran or China. > > Or is it the self-created, Talibanic Pakistan, who still imposes Jijya on > the non believers or finds pleasure in blowing up girl"s schools. > > Are you talking about its President class like the current Mr. Zardari, > vowed to wage a 1,000-year war with India or the late Mrs. Bhutto who > started Jihad in Kashmiri that lead to the exodus of Hindu minorities from > the Muslim majority state of India, as refugees in their own country? > > Are you referring to Pakistanis loyal to the ISI and the military who > train their soldiers with only one objective, i.e. to fight Hindu India? > > If your mind is concerned about the faceless mass of Pakistanis, does it > also include the dwindling minorities? > > Or are you just concerned about the celebrities and the social elites? > > It is true SRK that we belong to the same human species but it is hard to > stretch the similarities much further between "us" and "them". > > We from the same original land of Bharat but we want to keep her intact, > they want to break it into thousand pieces. > > Our ancestors happen to be the same. We acknowledge and adore the heritage > but they abhor and decimate whoever is available in an attempt to wipe out > the link. > > We are culturally the same. We have created the culture over centuries > what they dream to destroy in moments. > > Ours is a 10,000 year old civilization, theirs is a 62 years old country > undoing whole human civilization. > > We extend our hands repeatedly to promote friendship and amity; they give > us ISI, Lashkar, Harkat, Kashmir, Kargil and 26/11 in exchange. > > Do you think that the Indians nationals who died in all the above wars, > the Indian soldiers who lost their lives in cross-border ceasefire > violations or the Indian civilians who are killed by the ISI trained > Islamic terrorists and their affiliates, in all those serial blasts, all > over the country, willfully sacrificed their lives as a friendly > neighbourhood gesture? > > Can you face the families of the victims of Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus > or the martyrs of the Kargil war and try to explain to them that "They are > good neighbours. Let us love each other." > > Can you explain why the two gunmen at Cama hospital, during the Mumbai > carnage, asked the man who gave them water, what his religion was, and > shot him dead when he said he was a Hindu? > > If you cannot, then perhaps you understand why the majority of India does > not consider Pakistan as a good neighbour to have. > > Perhaps you believe that the peaceful religious co-existence that you > created in your home (and we appreciate that) can be extended to the large > world outside. As you rightly said, we Indians trust and do accept > everybody but what you did fail to mention was that it is the Indic > tradition, essentially coming out of its pre-Islamic Hindu ethos. > > If you think otherwise, show us a single Islamic country where the > non-believers enjoy the same equality as the believers. Since partition, > the Hindus left over in Pakistan and Bangladesh has suffered terribly. > Strictly Islamic countries, like Saudi Arabia, do not allow any other > religions to exist. Hindus working in the Gulf countries are not allowed > to practice their religion in public. Saudi Arabia insists that India > sends only a Muslim ambassador. Hindu Muslim unity by and large has > generally been a matter of Hindus trying to please or accommodate Muslims. > One cannot forget when Vajpayee was extending his hand for peace Musharraf > was planning the Kargil insurgency. > > Let us remind you, your own statement "I am a Muslim in a country called > India .We"ve never been made to feel this is a Hindu country." > > Can you find me a Hindu in Pakistan who can reciprocate that sentiment? > > Some years ago, another Mr. Khan, first name Feroze, from your fraternity > was banned from entering Pakistan for saying, "India is secular unlike > Pakistan". > > That is the basic difference of the land of "Hindu" India from the Islamic > "pure land" of Pakistan. > > So please do not ask us to love Pakistan. > > Please do not lump the people of India and Pakistan together. We Indians > are proud to preserve our separate identity. > > And please do not insult the land that gave you your life, name and fame, > by claiming that her worst enemy, who wants to break her into 1000 pieces, > is a great neighbour. > > Otherwise it would be sad if somebody accuses you of putting your religion > ahead of your country. > > Please give it a thought. > > Regards, > > Arindam Bandyopadhyay. > > http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/Open-letter-Mr-Shahrukh-Khan-SRK/blog-348.htm > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 20:15:06 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:45:06 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, this is not how fundamentalists think. When you hear the fundamentalists talk in Pakistan about India, it comes out as if there are no Muslims in that country, anf that all bomb blasts kill only Hindus. It should have become to people in Pakistan that those whose livelihood depends on killing, don't care who they are killing when their bosses tell them to do so. Pakistan trained and funded Taliban went to bring Islamic rule in Afghanistan and massacred Hazaras and other nonpashtuns to show who was the boss. The common slogan that you can hear during the processions that are organized by LET kind of organizations and are joined by significant political leaders and intelligence agents, Hindu ki barbadi tak jang rahegi jang rahegi. Some times the first line is changed by "kashmir ki azadi tak" So get ready, Indian Muslims are going to be target as well and now that Hindu terrorism has been once found involved in act of terrorism long back, Muslims will always be suspicious of the state, even when/if ISI will be carrying out those attacks. So yes very soon we will hear about good Musalman, those work for ISI's nefarious designs, and bad Musalman, those who do not, just like the Pakistani state apparatus distinguishes between good and bad taliban. That are all Hindus are not alike, is dawning on the Hindu fundamentalists. So we see a rift between RSS and BJP on one side and Shiv Sena on the other. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rakesh Iyer" To: "Pawan Durani" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? > There is no such thing as a 'Hindu' or 'Islamic' way of life. There are > multiple 'Hindu' ways of life, and so also multiple 'Islamic' ways of > life. > A Tamil Hindu has a different way of life from a Kashmiri Pandit. And even > within Tamil Nadu, there are different ways of life of different classes > and > castes of Hindu. The same is true for Muslims also. Commonities are also > found, but so also differences. A Kerala Muslim is completely different > from > a Uttar Pradesh Muslim, as I find in my class. > > All those spokespersons who feel there is a way of life, let them follow > it. > Don't impose it on others. It's this religion which will be the death of > all, rather than any famine or water crisis, as it seems now. > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 20:18:20 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:18:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The BJP and the RSS today have a rift with the Shiv Sena, but tomorrow they may not have one. More importantly, the BJP and the RSS don't realize that there are multiple 'Hindu' ways of life, or if they do, they would like people to lead their lives 'Hindutva' way, a way which only teaches bigotry and completely bogus history. One would do well to be objective in thought, as opposed to having dreams and fantasies being passed off as reality. Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 20:16:17 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:16:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reg: Indo-Pak Peace Process : A Mirage?? In-Reply-To: <850373.98310.qm@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <850373.98310.qm@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Cashmeeri With respect to your view itself, I elaborated my ideas. But I find your view right, that we should stick to the topic. Apologies for the diversions. Right now, my basic confusion is that who controls Pakistan, because it's that faction which does so, with whom establishing talks can be of importance. And in the absence of that, plus the fact that some elements (or may be all) of that faction don't want peace in India, it may be better off for us to think of other possibilities like more CBM's with the masses, while leaving the polity there to decide the steps they wish to take. Rakesh From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 20:40:50 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:40:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan Your heart cries "especially for the brothers and sister from WB"? What about the victims from other Iran and Nepal? My heart cries for everyone who is the victim of terrorism whichever religion they belong to. But my heart cries equally for those who would soon be wrongly accused and thrown into jails for years, or killed in false encounters, as we have seen in each of such terror cases. But now that it has established that Hindutva forces have been involved in several terror acts (such as that in Malegaon and so on), why can't one raise a doubt about them? Every time there is an unfortunate terror act, within seconds and minutes the media and intelligence authorities make their judgment about who the perpetrators were. And now that Sadhvi Pragya and Col.Purohit are part of the game, and very much active in Maharashtra, and also party to the anti-valentine campaign, why can't one raise a finger at them? What has doubt got to do with "Deen"? On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Good one Javed ! > This group would probably support you well for a well deserved Subject line. > Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" by using this method. > Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this group which started > to doubt Batla House as well. > Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? > I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... inflicted by 1000 > cuts and the handlers  of "non state actors". > The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light vigils , while ignoring > the threats in the name of "sickularism". > And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where do i get designer > candles.....!!! > Hurt !!! > Pawan > PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially the brother sister > from WB. > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: >> >> Pune And After >> Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should >> India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on >> hold? >> >> B. Raman >> http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 >> >> Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials >> indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented >> German Bakery of Pune  around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of >> terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and >> possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came >> into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to >> the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in >> the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, >> that could have required any special training. The expertise involved >> could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point >> an accusing finger at Pakistan. >> >> The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and >> activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the >> Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate    Hussain Rana, also of >> Chicago, in India to collect operational information  required for >> targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were >> used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected >> target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi >> and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his >> interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was >> interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. >> >> Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad >> House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by >> Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by >> the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used >> to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western >> youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German >> Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the >> German Bakery was targeted. >> >> Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well >> orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, >> Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and >> September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over >> Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow >> up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it >> involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance >> of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of >> Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under >> suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the >> US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, >> which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger  against >> the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's >> tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go >> ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a >> clear picture emerges? >> >> These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the >> policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. >> of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and >> should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation >> of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. >> >> B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of >> India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical >> Studies, Chennai. >> >> COMMENTS : >>        HAVE YOUR SAY >> Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM >> 21 >> >> Maha, >> >> >> what points? >> >> The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the >> headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous >> blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the >> suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been >> visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is >> more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or >> Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind >> and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty >> reactions."" >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM >> 20 >> >> Varun, >> >> >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and >> >> obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want to >> >> blame some Hindu group. >> >> Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from >> you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open >> mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty >> reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM >> 19 >> >> "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." >> >> what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk >> propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There >> some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are >> turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. >> >> It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced >> about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM >> 18 >> >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative >> work. >> Maha >> >> For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, >> irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in >> general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For >> some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects >> here would include Mossad and the CIA. >> Varun Shekhar >> Toronto, CANADA >> Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM >> 17 >> >> Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I >> suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to >> know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was >> responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, >> Sandeep. >> http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ >> Rama >> sydney, Australia >> Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM >> 16 >> >> "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist" >> >> I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had >> absolutely NO hand in the incident. >> Ganesan >> Nj, USA >> Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM >> 15 >> >> Maha, >> >> >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. >> >> It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM >> 14 >> >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" >> >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative >> work. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM >> 13 >> >> Maha, >> >> Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a >> way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". >> >> "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and >> fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." >> >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM >> 12 >> >> "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" >> >> I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic >> terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva >> terrorists. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM >> 11 >> >> " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all >> possibilities ...." >> >> Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that >> Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. >> Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had >> been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. >> >> In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of >> Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India >> should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should >> avoid over or hasty reactions." >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM >> 10 >> >> Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to >> condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why >> are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not >> indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the >> name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame >> others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. >> drharun >> chennai, India >> Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM >> 9 >> >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" >> >> Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's >> laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was >> really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu >> group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish >> visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. >> >> This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious >> and irrational people India is up against. >> Varun Shekhar >> Toronto, CANADA >> Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM >> 8 >> >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' >> >> Nasser >> >> Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try >> to accept the truth. >> a k ghai >> mumbai, India >> Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM >> 7 >> >> http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm >> >> This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our >> great neighbor. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM >> 6 >> >> An excellent article >> >> http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm >> Ganesan >> Nj, USA >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM >> 5 >> >> Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on >> the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police >> officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in >> blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in >> Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in >> these blasts. >> nasar >> Raleigh, USA >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM >> 4 >> >> A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is >> not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What >> diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. >> >> I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? >> And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to >> justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the >> govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the >> culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? >> >> What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has >> been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has >> been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the >> attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and >> makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling >> the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this >> bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have >> been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. >> >> But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about >> terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. >> In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, >> we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror >> attack. >> >> And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to >> justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) >> Ganesan >> Nj, USA >> Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM >> 3 >> >> Dear Mr Raman; >> >> This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate >> attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose >> interests are these rouge elements serving? >> >> What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards >> the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to >> accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or >> stall the new initiatives? >> >> If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any >> 'strings attached'? >> >> Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose >> interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? >> >> What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on >> other's designs? >> >> The root might be more political and economic, as; >> >> a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of >> dollars involved in the stake. >> >> b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and >> Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of >> anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to >> concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to >> balance the threat from further north. >> >> c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences >> or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also >> the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with >> Pakistan. >> >> d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if >> ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the >> present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this >> regard? >> >> e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted >> to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some >> sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , >> especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? >> >> f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert >> attention from the recent MNIK controversy? >> >> If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in >> the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the >> talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. >> >> JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm >> JJohn >> Kottayam, India >> Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM >> 2 >> >> The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the >> Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's >> Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection >> to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. >> S.S.Nagaraj >> Bangalore, India >> Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM >> 1 >> >> It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want >> access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire >> west. China also wants access to indian Market. >> >> Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods >> to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is >> huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure >> and all of them will fall in line. >> >> Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on >> propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will >> fall in line. >> vibhaas, Doha >> vibhaas >> Doha, qatar >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Feb 15 18:45:19 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:45:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SRK BLUNDER In-Reply-To: References: <000801caad3a$ebeb3850$c3c1a8f0$@in> <775013.58411.qm@web112118.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <55E46D33-030C-4D52-BA57-240F7573CECE@sarai.net> Message-ID: <18E6AD87-9FDF-4B75-AE88-75E088884139@sarai.net> Dear Rakesh, Thank you for your clarification. Yes, I agree, Thackeray has the legitimate freedom to declare that Shahrukh Khan, or my mother, or the tea stall vendor down the road is a traitor, or whatever else he has to declare. I have always respected the rights of the insane to their lunacy. However, the moment Thackeray calls on people to initiate violence, against those he has the right to call traitors, he loses in my view his right to live in liberty. I maintain, the strictest defence of free speech (my positions) is not inconsistent with the strictest view on what should be the consequences of a public call for violence against any individual. Thackeray, if I am not mistaken, has publicly spoken in favour of terrorism. These are his exact words in a signed editorial in the Shiv Sena mouthpiece Saamna, in June 2008 - "It was heartening to know that it was the supporters of Hindutva who had exploded the bomb in the theatre. But it was sad to know that it was planted to hurt the Hindus and I am ashamed about it." "The need of the hour is to plant a strong bomb in Bangladeshi bastis (slums) that have mushroomed in Thane and elsewhere in Maharashtra," Reports on this comment are available at - http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?581621 and at - http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/20080619/shiv-sena-bal- thackeray-suicide-squad-bomb-hindu-muslim-saamna-marathi-play-bjp- congress-rss_1.htm I am still surprised as to how this advocate of terrorism is still at liberty, given that there are so many legal mechanisms against terrorism that are apparently present in this country. Even more interestingly, here (below) is a news report quoting a journalist, Yuvraj Mohite, a witness who appeared before the Shrikrishna Commission, directly indicting Balasaheb Thackeray in the co ordination of the riots that shook Bombay in 1993. Incidentally, this report also implicates the many political leaders in so called secular parties, especially the NCP, and in the establishment at large, who have always, and at the last minute, protected Balasaheb Thackeray. Which is one reason why the Maharashtra government of any political party has never seen it fit to put Balasahed Thackeray where he belongs, in a maximum security prison, along with other common and ordinary thugs, assasins and terrorists. best. Shuddha ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------- Balasaheb commanded rioters: witness Ruksh Chatterji / CNN-IBN http://ibnlive.in.com/news/balasaheb-commanded-rioters-witness/ 47404-3.html?xml&news=Balasaheb%20commanded%20rioters:% 20witness&pubDate=Sat%2C+25+Aug+2007+03%3A21%3A51++0100&keyword=ibn_home Published on Fri, Aug 24, 2007 INSIDE THE TIGER'S DEN: Mohite watched as Thackeray ordered his Sainiks to riot, burn, loot and commit mass murder. Mumbai: The role of the Shiv Sena is clearly proven in the 1993 Bombay riots, but there is one testimony that proves that Bal Thackeray coordinated much of the January carnage that Mumbai witnessed in 1993. Says Witness, Srikrishna Commission Report, Yuvraj Mohite, "Balasaheb baithe they aur jagah jagah se unko phone aa rahe the aur woh halat poochke bolte the , 'Maro unhe, kaat dalo. Unko Allah ke pas bhej do'. Balasaheb was sitting and he was getting calls from various places. He would ask what was happening at that particular place (from where he got the call) and then he would say, 'Kill them. Send them to Allah'." On the night of January 8, 1993, when the Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray sat in his home controlling the mobs that set Bombay on fire, journalist Yuvraj Mohite was present at the Thackeray residence. Mohite watched as Thackeray ordered his Sainiks like a commander, to riot, burn, loot and commit mass murder. This is what Bal Thackeray said in February '93 after the riots: "I am proud of what my boys have done. We had to retaliate and we did. If it was not for us, no one would have controlled the Muslims." What he saw at the Thackeray home, left Mohite stunned. "Main yeh sab sunke baukhla gaya tha (I was stunned after hearing all of this)," says Mohite. And Yuvraj Mohite wasn't alone. Another man, Chandrakant Handore, then Mayor of Bombay and now social Justice Minister in the Congress- NCP government, is the one who took Mohite to the Thackeray home, and then told him to forget what'd he'd seen. "Handore ne mujhe bola ki tum yeh sab bhul jao. Balasaheb to aise hee hain. Aur maine bola ki mein yeh kisi bhi halat mein nahin bhool sakta (Handore asked me to forget it all, Balasaheb is just like this. I said that I can never forget this under any circumstances.)" However, Handore now claims he never saw Thackeray giving orders. "Jab kuch hua hi nahi tha to main kaise kuch bolo sakta hoon. Aur maine kabhi Mohite ko nahi roka (When nothing of this sort happened how could I have said anything? I have also never stopped Mohite to speak)," says Handore. With Handore claiming he had seen nothing, it was left up to the journalist to stand his ground. In his deposition before the Srikrishna Commission, Yuvraj clearly spelt out what Thackeray ordered: * That not one Muslim be left alive to stand in the witness box. * Asked his men to send the additional police commissioner, A A Khan, to his Allah. * Ordered his men to retaliate to the Hindu killings in Jogeshwari. It was this testimony that made the Commission indict the Sena chief. Justice Srikrishna writes: "Even after it became apparent that the leaders of the Shiv Sena were active in stoking the fire of the communal riots, the police dragged the feet on the facile and exaggerated assumption that if such leaders were arrested, the communal situation would further flare up." And it's Mohite's testimony that helped the commission prove the Sena involvement. But what made him stand his ground? "Jo maina dekha tha us se mein shock hogaya tha aur maine bola ki aisi baat jo maine dekhi hai use dabne nahi de sakta hoon (I was shocked at what I saw. I decided that something that I have seen I will not suppress it)." Yuvraj Mohite’s testimony is a damning indictment of politicians like Chandrakant Handore and the then state government, which not only failed to save over 900 lives, but also didn't have the will or the guts to put Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray in the dock. On 15-Feb-10, at 6:22 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote > Dear Shuddha > > What I wish to clarify here is regarding my statement on 'freedom > of speech'. What I mean is that people are free to hold their > views. In that regard, Thackeray is free to hold the view that > Shahrukh is a 'traitor', that shouldn't be an issue here. Where > Thackeray does wrong is inciting people to commit violence against > Shahrukh because he is a traitor. If Thackeray feels so, let him go > to a court of law and register a case against Shahrukh for acting > against India. As per the Constitution, if indeed it is found to be > true, the court will punish Shahrukh accordingly. > > Instead, politics today has turned into mobocracy, whereby anybody > who has a mob behind him/her can do as he/she feels, irrespective > of the problems it creates for the others. Such politics should be > deplored, and anybody practicing it should be put behind bars. > > Rakesh Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 00:01:34 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:31:34 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Film about Whirling Dervishes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5af37bb1002151031k56f42612p84b03e3af45298ba@mail.gmail.com> From: nameera ahmed Hello, My film *"give me your love"* (about the music of the Mevlevi Sufis and the story of the reed-flute) is screening at an online film festival, Culture Unplugged: http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/2480 Due to the good response it received, they are highlighting it in the 'showcase' box for a few days. Please feel free to pass on the link to as many people as you like. -- Nameera Ahmed http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/2480/Give-Me-Your-Love http://nameeraa.blogspot.com/ From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Feb 16 00:08:25 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:08:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? In-Reply-To: <836379.49206.qm@web112601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <836379.49206.qm@web112601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Aima, I find your reasoning hard to follow. Understandably, the Pakistani textbooks that spew hatred towards India are a cause for concern, as much as a whole tranche of Hindi films made in Bombay in recent years, that spewed hatred towards Pakistan were also a cause for concern. However, it is programmes and initiatives like 'Aman Ki Asha' (howsoever flawed they may be) that are probably our last hope in being able to get a different kind of conversation going, one that addresses prejudices and misconceptions in BOTH countries. I have several Pakistani citizens as friends, some stay in Delhi, others stay in Lahore and Karachi, and still others stay in London, New York and Toronto. I have no trouble in distinguishing them from their governments, just as they have no trouble distinguishing me from the Government of India. I will always, and in any and every circumstance, (even in times of war and conflict) welcome direct, close and intimate relationships between the peoples of India and Pakistan as the only possible antidote to the insanity of aggression. I do not care whether or not that makes either me, or them (my Pakistani friends) a traitor to our respective nation states. I strongly advocate treason to nations and nation states (on both sides of the border) if that is a way of advancing the cause of peace. I think we should ask very seriously why we should not be traitors when called upon to go to war. To refuse to be a traitor in those circumstances is in my view an act of cowardice and malice. We should all be traitors to our states, in India, Pakistan and elswhere, when it is ethically incumbent on us to be so. best Shuddha On 15-Feb-10, at 7:45 PM, cashmeeri wrote: > Anil Athale in his Rediff article "Peace with Pakistan: Chasing a > mirage" referred to Pakistani Textbooks teaching the children to > hate India and Hindus. > http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/feb/11/peace-with-pakistan- > chasing-a-mirage.htm > > Nirupama Subramanian, correspondent for The Hindu in Pakistan, in > her article "Awaiting changes to a syllabus of hate" gives an > expanded view on the hate taught in Pakistani Textbooks. > > It will be educative towards understanding why "Aman Ki Asha" could > possibly be "A Foolish Asha". > > It is relevant to mention that the Textbooks mentioned are from the > National Curriculum. Expectedly, what is taught in the Madrassas > would be more heightened in preaching and propagating hate. > > Under Musharraf, "For three years, 30 scholars commissioned by SDPI > pored over textbooks in four subjects taught for Classes 1 to 12: > Social Studies/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and Civics." > > They detailed the hate taught and the selectivity in recounting > history, in their 2004 report, "The Subtle Subversion: The State of > Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan." > > This "became the basis for a major revision of the national > curriculum undertaken by the Musharraf regime in 2006." > > New Texbooks with the proposed changes have not been introduced in > Pakistan as yet. > > Physicist Dr AH Nayyar says "My fear, is that the government may > not have the political strength to bring in a progressive education > policy. They may succumb to pressures of various kinds and end up > bringing in a hopelessly muddled policy." > > Physicist Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy says "Another generation has been > lost because the process has taken too long," . And until the new > textbooks are introduced, millions of children will continue to > learn in their Urdu lessons in schools about the differences > between Hindus and Muslims in a hatred-generating way, about > "India’s evil designs against Pakistan" in their Social Studies, > and that Bangladesh was a result of a conspiracy by India with > assistance from "Hindus living in East Pakistan." > > ........... aalok aima > > > http://www.sacw.net/article953.html > > Will Pakistan’s schools get a curriculum that weed’s out hate? > Tuesday, 9 June 2009 / Nirupama Subramanian > > The Hindu, June 9, 2009 > Awaiting changes to a syllabus of hate > by Nirupama Subramanian > > All the focus is on madrasa reforms but Pakistan’s schools are also > seen as encouraging extremism, while the government has shown > little urgency about implementing a revised curriculum. > > On a recent weekday afternoon, a small group of youngsters gathered > at a meeting hall in Islamabad to discuss how to combat extremism, > militancy and terrorism in Pakistan. Listed were top-notch > speakers, including two members of Parliament and the well-known > physicist, Pervez Hoodbhoy. > > Dr. Hoodbhoy, who teaches at the Quaid-e-Azam University in the > Pakistan capital, spoke passionately and at length, on a theme that > he has worked to highlight for years: the education imparted to > Pakistani children is flawed and encourages extremism, intolerance > and ignorance. He showed the group, mostly undergraduate students, > slides from an illustrated primer for the Urdu alphabet he picked > from a shop in Rawalpindi: alif for Allah; bay for bandook (gun); > tay for takrao (collision, shown by a plane crashing into the Twin > Towers); jeem for jihad; kay for khanjar (dagger); and hay for hijab. > > This was not a prescribed textbook, but another set of slides he > showed had excerpts from a 1995 government-approved curriculum for > Social Studies, which stated that at the end of Class V, the child > should be able to acknowledge and identify forces that may be > working against Pakistan; demonstrate by actions a belief in the > fear of Allah; make speeches on jehad and shahadat (martyrdom); > understand Hindu-Muslim differences and the resultant need for > Pakistan; India´s evil designs against Pakistan; be safe from > rumour-mongers who spread false news; visit police stations; > collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and National Guards; and > demonstrate respect for the leaders of Pakistan. > > "Instead of teaching our children about the nice things in this > world like the colours of flowers, about the wonders of the > universe, we are teaching them to hate," he said. The school > curriculum was one reason, he said, why Pakistanis were in denial > that the militants and extremists now terrorising the entire > country were home-grown products, and why many tended to > externalise the problem with conspiracy theories about an > "external" hand. > > At the end of the discussion, which included a question-and-answer > session, the group was asked how many thought Pakistan´s present > problems were the consequence of an "Indian hand." A quarter of the > group put up its hands. Next, the students were asked how many > thought the problems were the result of an American conspiracy to > destabilise Pakistan and deprive it of its nuclear weapons: more > than three-fourths of the group sent their hands up without a moment > ´s hesitation. > > The irony was that this was the "youth group" of a non-governmental > organisation, the Liberal Forum of Pakistan. The students had > reserved their maximum applause for a speaker who projected the > widespread line that Pakistan´s problems began only after 2001, and > are the fallout of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. > > "Was there a single incident of terrorism before that? A single > suicide bombing? No." he said. The speaker was an official of the > Ministry of Youth Affairs. > > In the search for solutions to the crisis sweeping Pakistan and > threatening to tear it apart, the international community has > tended to focus on madrasas as "terrorist factories." But for Dr. > Hoodbhoy and others who have been fighting a long battle for urgent > changes in Pakistan´s national school curriculum and the prescribed > school textbooks, children getting a government-approved education > in the public school system are at equal risk. > > "Madrasas are not the only institutions breeding hate, intolerance, > a distorted world view. The educational material in government-run > schools do much more than madrasas. The textbooks tell lies, create > hatred, inculcate militancy…" This was the damning conclusion of a > landmark research project by the Islamabad-based Sustainable > Development Policy Institute. > > For three years, 30 scholars commissioned by SDPI pored over > textbooks in four subjects taught for Classes 1 to 12: Social > Studies/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and Civics. The startling > findings of their labour came out in a 2004 publication, "The > Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan." > > The much-written about research unleashed a huge debate on what was > being taught in Pakistan´s schools, and became the basis for a > major revision of the national curriculum undertaken by the > Musharraf regime in 2006. The new curriculum has made several big > changes. There is a conscious move to teach tolerance and respect > for diversity, and the open vilification of India is absent. It > also does not insist on imposing Islamic religious teaching on non- > Muslim students. Religion is to be taught in focussed courses, > rather than being infused in Social Studies, Civics, Urdu and English. > > Unfortunately, so far, no move has been made to introduce new > textbooks that reflect the changes. "The revised curriculum is a > huge departure from the earlier one. But whether the changes it > prescribes will be implemented at all is not clear to us. The more > it is delayed, the less and less we are sure it is going to come," > said A.H. Nayyar, research fellow at SDPI and one of the initiators > of the project. > > The changes in the curriculum are up on the Internet site of the > Ministry of Education. For Grades 4 and 5 Social Studies, the > curriculum has dropped the learning outcomes prescribed by the 1995 > and 2002 curricula, focussing instead on providing an "unbiased" > education that aims to build informed citizens equipped with > analytical skills and "values such as equality, social justice, > fairness, diversity, and respect for self and diverse opinions of > others." > > The SDPI recommendation that history be taught as a separate > subject instead of being lumped into Pakistan Studies was accepted > by the framers of the revised curriculum. So, for the first time, a > curriculum has been framed for history as a separate subject from > Grades 6 to 8. > > In contrast to the earlier approach in the Pakistan Studies > curriculum, in which the history of Pakistan begins with the day > the first Muslim set foot in India, the revised curriculum includes > a study of the Indus valley civilisation, of Hinduism, Buddhism and > Jainism, and of the ancient Maurya and Gupta dynasties. > > The curriculum appears keen to emphasise a composite South Asian > history from which Pakistan took birth including the "joint Hindu- > Muslim" efforts in the struggle for independence. The Pakistan > Studies curriculum for Grades 9 and 10 wants children to learn > about the multicultural heritage of Pakistan and "get used to the > idea of unity in diversity," a big no-no earlier. The revised > curriculum also has a component on "peace studies" and conflict > resolution. > > One reason new textbooks based on the revised curriculum have not > come out yet, Dr. Nayyar speculated, may be that the 1998 national > educational policy introduced by the shortlived Nawaz Sharif > government, remains in force till 2010. The Pakistan People´s Party- > led government could be waiting to introduce its own education > policy, and usher in the changes to the curriculum and the > textbooks along with this, he said. > > Even the draft new education policy is ready, based on a two-year- > old White Paper. It too reflects a major shift from the 1998 > policy, which laid down that education should enable the citizens > to lead their lives as true practising Muslims according to the > teachings of Islam as prescribed in the Quran and Sunnah. It also > made the teaching of Nazra Quran a compulsory subject from Grades 1 > to 8, and the learning of selected verses from the Quran > thereafter, in clear violation of the Constitution that Islam will > not be imposed on non-Muslims. > > By contrast, the draft new policy makes it clear that only Muslim > children will be provided instruction in Islamiyat, while > minorities will be provided an education in their own religion. The > new policy will provide the framework for the implementing the new > curriculum and introducing new textbooks. > > The bad news is that in April, the federal Cabinet put off > approving the draft indefinitely. Only after the Cabinet approves > the policy can it be placed before Parliament. A report in Dawn > newspaper said the Cabinet wanted the Education Ministry to make > the policy "more comprehensive, covering every aspect of education > sector which needs improvement along with an implementable work > plan." But no urgency is visible in the Ministry to get cracking on > this task. Another concern is that the Education Minister is not > known for his progressive views, especially on gender issues. > > "My fear," said Dr. Nayyar, a soft-spoken physicist who retired > from teaching at the Quaid-e-Azam University some years ago, "is > that the government may not have the political strength to bring in > a progressive education policy. They may succumb to pressures of > various kinds and end up bringing in a hopelessly muddled policy." > > Yet the need for reforms in education has never been as urgent and > necessary as now. As Dr. Hoodbhoy has pointed out in several recent > articles, while a physical takeover of Pakistan by the Taliban may > be a far cry, extremist ideology has taken root in young minds > across the country, thanks to a flawed education system. > > Compared to the 1.5 million who study in madrasas, an estimated 20 > million children are enrolled in government schools. Dr. Nayyar > laments that in the five years since the publication of the SDPI > report, children who were 11 years old at the time have completed > their matriculation. They read the old textbooks, and learnt a way > of thinking about themselves and the world that will prove hard to > change. > > "Another generation has been lost because the process has taken too > long," he said. And until the new textbooks are introduced, > millions of children will continue to learn in their Urdu lessons > in schools about the differences between Hindus and Muslims in a > hatred-generating way, about "India’s evil designs against > Pakistan" in their Social Studies, and that Bangladesh was a result > of a conspiracy by India with assistance from "Hindus living in > East Pakistan." > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Feb 16 00:20:57 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:20:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <390AEEB0-67B1-4F25-9CC6-094F1EEF683E@sarai.net> Dear Javed, I agree with you entirely. It is just as reasonable to assume that the bombing in Pune could be the handiwork of the forces that were behind the attacks in Malegaon (HIndutva outfits in alliance with so called 'rogue' elements in the Indian intelligence community) as it could be an attack perpetrated by either home grown, or imported Islamists. It is totally premature to suggest any definitive signature, and given that Pune is a well known base for the Hindutva-Rogue Intelligence Agent nexus, either outcome is entirely possible. So pointing fingers in the direction of either the ISI headquarters, or the Hindutva head- hunters are just as equally legitimate. If it is acceptable for some commentators to say that this is the work of Pakistani Lashkar militants of ISI agensts (which is by no means unreasonable) it should be equally acceptable to countenance and suggest that the authors of the attack come from within the extended family of Hindutva inspired organizations within Maharashtra (which is an equally reasonable assumptions). I find Pawan Durani's suggestion that this pattern of violence has anything to do with any 'Deen' (and he clearly means Islam) objectionable and obscene. I hope that everyone on this list will join me in a wholesale condemnation of terrorism (no matter where it comes from) and an attempt to score political milage from it, as is being attempted to be done by some people on this list. There is something frankly disgusting in the smug satisfaction of those who use a tragedy to leap on their bandwagon of hatred and prejudice, unmindful of the fact that many different kinds of people, of different nationalities and religions and non-religious backgrounds have lost their life. And there is something equally disgusting in suggesting that the tragic loss of life of a brother and sister from West Bengal is somehow more significant than the loss of life of a German, Iranian, Israeli or Nepali person who may have been in the same space. I hope we can continue to be anchored by sanity and not be swept into a maelstorm of hatred on this list in this tragic time, best Shuddha On 15-Feb-10, at 8:40 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Pawan > Your heart cries "especially for the brothers and sister from WB"? > What about the victims from other Iran and Nepal? My heart cries for > everyone who is the victim of terrorism whichever religion they belong > to. But my heart cries equally for those who would soon be wrongly > accused and thrown into jails for years, or killed in false > encounters, as we have seen in each of such terror cases. But now that > it has established that Hindutva forces have been involved in several > terror acts (such as that in Malegaon and so on), why can't one raise > a doubt about them? Every time there is an unfortunate terror act, > within seconds and minutes the media and intelligence authorities make > their judgment about who the perpetrators were. And now that Sadhvi > Pragya and Col.Purohit are part of the game, and very much active in > Maharashtra, and also party to the anti-valentine campaign, why can't > one raise a finger at them? What has doubt got to do with "Deen"? > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Pawan Durani > wrote: >> Good one Javed ! >> This group would probably support you well for a well deserved >> Subject line. >> Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" by using >> this method. >> Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this group which >> started >> to doubt Batla House as well. >> Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? >> I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... inflicted >> by 1000 >> cuts and the handlers of "non state actors". >> The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light vigils , >> while ignoring >> the threats in the name of "sickularism". >> And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where do i get >> designer >> candles.....!!! >> Hurt !!! >> Pawan >> PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially the brother >> sister >> from WB. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: >>> >>> Pune And After >>> Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh >>> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should >>> India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on >>> hold? >>> >>> B. Raman >>> http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 >>> >>> Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and >>> officials >>> indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented >>> German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an >>> act of >>> terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and >>> possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came >>> into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to >>> the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, >>> died in >>> the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, >>> that could have required any special training. The expertise >>> involved >>> could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to >>> point >>> an accusing finger at Pakistan. >>> >>> The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and >>> activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the >>> Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of >>> Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for >>> targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were >>> used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also >>> collected >>> target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi >>> and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his >>> interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was >>> interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. >>> >>> Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local >>> Chabad >>> House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is >>> frequented by >>> Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by >>> the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who >>> used >>> to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western >>> youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the >>> German >>> Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, >>> the >>> German Bakery was targeted. >>> >>> Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh >>> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well >>> orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, >>> Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and >>> September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over >>> Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to >>> blow >>> up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it >>> involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the >>> significance >>> of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of >>> Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under >>> suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the >>> US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, >>> which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against >>> the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's >>> tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go >>> ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a >>> clear picture emerges? >>> >>> These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the >>> policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. >>> of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities >>> and >>> should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and >>> investigation >>> of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against >>> it. >>> >>> B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, >>> Govt. of >>> India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical >>> Studies, Chennai. >>> >>> COMMENTS : >>> HAVE YOUR SAY >>> Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM >>> 21 >>> >>> Maha, >>> >>>>> what points? >>> >>> The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the >>> headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous >>> blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that >>> the >>> suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been >>> visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however >>> it is >>> more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or >>> Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open >>> mind >>> and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty >>> reactions."" >>> Anwaar >>> Dallas, United States >>> Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM >>> 20 >>> >>> Varun, >>> >>>>> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and >>>>> obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who >>>>> want to >>>>> blame some Hindu group. >>> >>> Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is >>> from >>> you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open >>> mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty >>> reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. >>> Anwaar >>> Dallas, United States >>> Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM >>> 19 >>> >>> "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." >>> >>> what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk >>> propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. >>> There >>> some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are >>> turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu >>> terrorism. >>> >>> It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not >>> convinced >>> about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. >>> Maha >>> NJ, United States >>> Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM >>> 18 >>> >>> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >>> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas >>> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative >>> work. >>> Maha >>> >>> For the next little while, we are going to have put up with >>> mendacity, >>> irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from >>> Moslems in >>> general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. >>> For >>> some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects >>> here would include Mossad and the CIA. >>> Varun Shekhar >>> Toronto, CANADA >>> Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM >>> 17 >>> >>> Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu >>> group, I >>> suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to >>> know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was >>> responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the >>> author, >>> Sandeep. >>> http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ >>> Rama >>> sydney, Australia >>> Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM >>> 16 >>> >>> "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >>> terrorist" >>> >>> I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had >>> absolutely NO hand in the incident. >>> Ganesan >>> Nj, USA >>> Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM >>> 15 >>> >>> Maha, >>> >>>>> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. >>> >>> It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. >>> Anwaar >>> Dallas, United States >>> Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM >>> 14 >>> >>> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" >>> >>> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >>> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas >>> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative >>> work. >>> Maha >>> NJ, United States >>> Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM >>> 13 >>> >>> Maha, >>> >>> Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in >>> such a >>> way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". >>> >>> "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) >>> and >>> fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." >>> >>> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html >>> Anwaar >>> Dallas, United States >>> Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM >>> 12 >>> >>> "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such >>> a way >>> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" >>> >>> I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic >>> terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva >>> terrorists. >>> Maha >>> NJ, United States >>> Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM >>> 11 >>> >>> " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all >>> possibilities ...." >>> >>> Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that >>> Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. >>> Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a >>> way >>> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that >>> had >>> been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. >>> >>> In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of >>> Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India >>> should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should >>> avoid over or hasty reactions." >>> Anwaar >>> Dallas, United States >>> Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM >>> 10 >>> >>> Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to >>> condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why >>> are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not >>> indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the >>> name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame >>> others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. >>> drharun >>> chennai, India >>> Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM >>> 9 >>> >>> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to >>> cast >>> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the >>> police >>> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" >>> >>> Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's >>> laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was >>> really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local >>> Hindu >>> group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish >>> visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. >>> >>> This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of >>> mendacious >>> and irrational people India is up against. >>> Varun Shekhar >>> Toronto, CANADA >>> Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM >>> 8 >>> >>> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to >>> cast >>> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the >>> police >>> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' >>> >>> Nasser >>> >>> Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam >>> Mjuhidins .Try >>> to accept the truth. >>> a k ghai >>> mumbai, India >>> Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM >>> 7 >>> >>> http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm >>> >>> This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our >>> great neighbor. >>> Maha >>> NJ, United States >>> Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM >>> 6 >>> >>> An excellent article >>> >>> http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm >>> Ganesan >>> Nj, USA >>> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM >>> 5 >>> >>> Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to >>> cast >>> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the >>> police >>> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on >>> the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police >>> officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were >>> involved in >>> blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in >>> Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in >>> these blasts. >>> nasar >>> Raleigh, USA >>> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM >>> 4 >>> >>> A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, >>> India is >>> not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What >>> diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. >>> >>> I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? >>> And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to >>> justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. >>> Did the >>> govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the >>> culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? >>> >>> What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has >>> been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has >>> been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the >>> attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and >>> makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement >>> recycling >>> the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this >>> bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have >>> been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. >>> >>> But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit >>> about >>> terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will >>> get. >>> In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, >>> we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror >>> attack. >>> >>> And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to >>> justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) >>> Ganesan >>> Nj, USA >>> Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM >>> 3 >>> >>> Dear Mr Raman; >>> >>> This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate >>> attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose >>> interests are these rouge elements serving? >>> >>> What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence >>> towards >>> the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to >>> accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or >>> stall the new initiatives? >>> >>> If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were >>> there any >>> 'strings attached'? >>> >>> Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose >>> interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? >>> >>> What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on >>> other's designs? >>> >>> The root might be more political and economic, as; >>> >>> a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of >>> dollars involved in the stake. >>> >>> b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and >>> Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of >>> anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to >>> concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to >>> balance the threat from further north. >>> >>> c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible >>> consequences >>> or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, >>> also >>> the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations >>> with >>> Pakistan. >>> >>> d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if >>> ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the >>> present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in >>> this >>> regard? >>> >>> e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be >>> scripted >>> to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite >>> some >>> sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of >>> foreigners , >>> especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? >>> >>> f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert >>> attention from the recent MNIK controversy? >>> >>> If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in >>> the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue >>> the >>> talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. >>> >>> JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm >>> JJohn >>> Kottayam, India >>> Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM >>> 2 >>> >>> The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the >>> Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul >>> Gandhi's >>> Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in >>> protection >>> to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. >>> S.S.Nagaraj >>> Bangalore, India >>> Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM >>> 1 >>> >>> It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want >>> access to that. americans are practically beggars including the >>> entire >>> west. China also wants access to indian Market. >>> >>> Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell >>> goods >>> to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is >>> huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such >>> measure >>> and all of them will fall in line. >>> >>> Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on >>> propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will >>> fall in line. >>> vibhaas, Doha >>> vibhaas >>> Doha, qatar >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 11:10:06 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:10:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Islamic terror? Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002152140p66d6edbar7b3641ea093d8b65@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately there are almost no hindus left in Kashmir. Else people like you and Shuddha would have lost no opportunity in even blaming Hindus for grenade attacks etc etc... On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Pawan > Your heart cries "especially for the brothers and sister from WB"? > What about the victims from other Iran and Nepal? My heart cries for > everyone who is the victim of terrorism whichever religion they belong > to. But my heart cries equally for those who would soon be wrongly > accused and thrown into jails for years, or killed in false > encounters, as we have seen in each of such terror cases. But now that > it has established that Hindutva forces have been involved in several > terror acts (such as that in Malegaon and so on), why can't one raise > a doubt about them? Every time there is an unfortunate terror act, > within seconds and minutes the media and intelligence authorities make > their judgment about who the perpetrators were. And now that Sadhvi > Pragya and Col.Purohit are part of the game, and very much active in > Maharashtra, and also party to the anti-valentine campaign, why can't > one raise a finger at them? What has doubt got to do with "Deen"? > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Pawan Durani > wrote: > > Good one Javed ! > > This group would probably support you well for a well deserved Subject > line. > > Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" by using this > method. > > Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this group which > started > > to doubt Batla House as well. > > Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? > > I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... inflicted by 1000 > > cuts and the handlers of "non state actors". > > The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light vigils , while > ignoring > > the threats in the name of "sickularism". > > And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where do i get designer > > candles.....!!! > > Hurt !!! > > Pawan > > PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially the brother sister > > from WB. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: > >> > >> Pune And After > >> Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should > >> India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on > >> hold? > >> > >> B. Raman > >> http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 > >> > >> Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials > >> indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented > >> German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of > >> terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and > >> possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came > >> into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to > >> the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in > >> the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, > >> that could have required any special training. The expertise involved > >> could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point > >> an accusing finger at Pakistan. > >> > >> The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and > >> activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the > >> Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of > >> Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for > >> targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were > >> used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected > >> target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi > >> and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his > >> interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was > >> interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. > >> > >> Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad > >> House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by > >> Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by > >> the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used > >> to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western > >> youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German > >> Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the > >> German Bakery was targeted. > >> > >> Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well > >> orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, > >> Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and > >> September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over > >> Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow > >> up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it > >> involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance > >> of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of > >> Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under > >> suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the > >> US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, > >> which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against > >> the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's > >> tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go > >> ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a > >> clear picture emerges? > >> > >> These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the > >> policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. > >> of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and > >> should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation > >> of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. > >> > >> B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of > >> India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical > >> Studies, Chennai. > >> > >> COMMENTS : > >> HAVE YOUR SAY > >> Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM > >> 21 > >> > >> Maha, > >> > >> >> what points? > >> > >> The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the > >> headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous > >> blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the > >> suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been > >> visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is > >> more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or > >> Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind > >> and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > >> reactions."" > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM > >> 20 > >> > >> Varun, > >> > >> >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and > >> >> obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want > to > >> >> blame some Hindu group. > >> > >> Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from > >> you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open > >> mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > >> reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM > >> 19 > >> > >> "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." > >> > >> what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk > >> propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There > >> some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are > >> turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. > >> > >> It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced > >> about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM > >> 18 > >> > >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > >> work. > >> Maha > >> > >> For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, > >> irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in > >> general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For > >> some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects > >> here would include Mossad and the CIA. > >> Varun Shekhar > >> Toronto, CANADA > >> Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM > >> 17 > >> > >> Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I > >> suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to > >> know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was > >> responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, > >> Sandeep. > >> http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ > >> Rama > >> sydney, Australia > >> Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM > >> 16 > >> > >> "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist" > >> > >> I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had > >> absolutely NO hand in the incident. > >> Ganesan > >> Nj, USA > >> Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM > >> 15 > >> > >> Maha, > >> > >> >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. > >> > >> It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM > >> 14 > >> > >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" > >> > >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > >> work. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM > >> 13 > >> > >> Maha, > >> > >> Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a > >> way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". > >> > >> "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and > >> fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." > >> > >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM > >> 12 > >> > >> "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" > >> > >> I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic > >> terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva > >> terrorists. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM > >> 11 > >> > >> " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all > >> possibilities ...." > >> > >> Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that > >> Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. > >> Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had > >> been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. > >> > >> In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of > >> Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India > >> should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should > >> avoid over or hasty reactions." > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM > >> 10 > >> > >> Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to > >> condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why > >> are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not > >> indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the > >> name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame > >> others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. > >> drharun > >> chennai, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM > >> 9 > >> > >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" > >> > >> Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's > >> laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was > >> really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu > >> group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish > >> visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. > >> > >> This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious > >> and irrational people India is up against. > >> Varun Shekhar > >> Toronto, CANADA > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM > >> 8 > >> > >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' > >> > >> Nasser > >> > >> Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try > >> to accept the truth. > >> a k ghai > >> mumbai, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM > >> 7 > >> > >> http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm > >> > >> This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our > >> great neighbor. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM > >> 6 > >> > >> An excellent article > >> > >> http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm > >> Ganesan > >> Nj, USA > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > >> 5 > >> > >> Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on > >> the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police > >> officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in > >> blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in > >> Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in > >> these blasts. > >> nasar > >> Raleigh, USA > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > >> 4 > >> > >> A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is > >> not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What > >> diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. > >> > >> I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? > >> And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to > >> justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the > >> govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the > >> culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? > >> > >> What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has > >> been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has > >> been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the > >> attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and > >> makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling > >> the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this > >> bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have > >> been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. > >> > >> But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about > >> terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. > >> In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, > >> we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror > >> attack. > >> > >> And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to > >> justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) > >> Ganesan > >> Nj, USA > >> Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM > >> 3 > >> > >> Dear Mr Raman; > >> > >> This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate > >> attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose > >> interests are these rouge elements serving? > >> > >> What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards > >> the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to > >> accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or > >> stall the new initiatives? > >> > >> If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any > >> 'strings attached'? > >> > >> Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose > >> interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? > >> > >> What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on > >> other's designs? > >> > >> The root might be more political and economic, as; > >> > >> a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of > >> dollars involved in the stake. > >> > >> b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and > >> Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of > >> anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to > >> concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to > >> balance the threat from further north. > >> > >> c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences > >> or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also > >> the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with > >> Pakistan. > >> > >> d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if > >> ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the > >> present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this > >> regard? > >> > >> e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted > >> to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some > >> sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , > >> especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? > >> > >> f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert > >> attention from the recent MNIK controversy? > >> > >> If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in > >> the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the > >> talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. > >> > >> JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm > >> JJohn > >> Kottayam, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM > >> 2 > >> > >> The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the > >> Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's > >> Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection > >> to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. > >> S.S.Nagaraj > >> Bangalore, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM > >> 1 > >> > >> It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want > >> access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire > >> west. China also wants access to indian Market. > >> > >> Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods > >> to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is > >> huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure > >> and all of them will fall in line. > >> > >> Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on > >> propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will > >> fall in line. > >> vibhaas, Doha > >> vibhaas > >> Doha, qatar > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 12:30:19 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:30:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Islamic terror? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002152140p66d6edbar7b3641ea093d8b65@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002152140p66d6edbar7b3641ea093d8b65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c691002152300qd76b18fvdf194b41a2b3d843@mail.gmail.com> Warning from Islamic terror groups from Pak, Pune under attack! Where did Hindus come in picture? Aman Ki Asha - to - Aman Ki Ashes These selective killings were initiated in Kashmir 20 years back. Just b'coz we are still sleeping; the entire country is today its victim! Sad situation! Aditya Raj Kaul On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Unfortunately there are almost no hindus left in Kashmir. Else people like > you and Shuddha would have lost no opportunity in even blaming Hindus for > grenade attacks etc etc... > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Javed wrote: > > > Dear Pawan > > Your heart cries "especially for the brothers and sister from WB"? > > What about the victims from other Iran and Nepal? My heart cries for > > everyone who is the victim of terrorism whichever religion they belong > > to. But my heart cries equally for those who would soon be wrongly > > accused and thrown into jails for years, or killed in false > > encounters, as we have seen in each of such terror cases. But now that > > it has established that Hindutva forces have been involved in several > > terror acts (such as that in Malegaon and so on), why can't one raise > > a doubt about them? Every time there is an unfortunate terror act, > > within seconds and minutes the media and intelligence authorities make > > their judgment about who the perpetrators were. And now that Sadhvi > > Pragya and Col.Purohit are part of the game, and very much active in > > Maharashtra, and also party to the anti-valentine campaign, why can't > > one raise a finger at them? What has doubt got to do with "Deen"? > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Pawan Durani > > wrote: > > > Good one Javed ! > > > This group would probably support you well for a well deserved Subject > > line. > > > Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" by using this > > method. > > > Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this group which > > started > > > to doubt Batla House as well. > > > Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? > > > I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... inflicted by > 1000 > > > cuts and the handlers of "non state actors". > > > The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light vigils , while > > ignoring > > > the threats in the name of "sickularism". > > > And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where do i get designer > > > candles.....!!! > > > Hurt !!! > > > Pawan > > > PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially the brother > sister > > > from WB. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: > > >> > > >> Pune And After > > >> Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > > >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should > > >> India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on > > >> hold? > > >> > > >> B. Raman > > >> http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 > > >> > > >> Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials > > >> indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented > > >> German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of > > >> terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and > > >> possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came > > >> into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to > > >> the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in > > >> the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, > > >> that could have required any special training. The expertise involved > > >> could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point > > >> an accusing finger at Pakistan. > > >> > > >> The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and > > >> activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the > > >> Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of > > >> Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for > > >> targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were > > >> used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected > > >> target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi > > >> and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his > > >> interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was > > >> interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. > > >> > > >> Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad > > >> House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by > > >> Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by > > >> the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used > > >> to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western > > >> youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German > > >> Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the > > >> German Bakery was targeted. > > >> > > >> Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > > >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well > > >> orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, > > >> Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and > > >> September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over > > >> Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow > > >> up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it > > >> involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance > > >> of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of > > >> Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under > > >> suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the > > >> US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, > > >> which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against > > >> the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's > > >> tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go > > >> ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a > > >> clear picture emerges? > > >> > > >> These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the > > >> policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. > > >> of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and > > >> should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation > > >> of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. > > >> > > >> B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of > > >> India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical > > >> Studies, Chennai. > > >> > > >> COMMENTS : > > >> HAVE YOUR SAY > > >> Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM > > >> 21 > > >> > > >> Maha, > > >> > > >> >> what points? > > >> > > >> The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the > > >> headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous > > >> blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the > > >> suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been > > >> visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is > > >> more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or > > >> Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind > > >> and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > > >> reactions."" > > >> Anwaar > > >> Dallas, United States > > >> Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM > > >> 20 > > >> > > >> Varun, > > >> > > >> >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and > > >> >> obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who > want > > to > > >> >> blame some Hindu group. > > >> > > >> Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from > > >> you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open > > >> mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > > >> reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. > > >> Anwaar > > >> Dallas, United States > > >> Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM > > >> 19 > > >> > > >> "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." > > >> > > >> what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk > > >> propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There > > >> some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are > > >> turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. > > >> > > >> It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced > > >> about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. > > >> Maha > > >> NJ, United States > > >> Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM > > >> 18 > > >> > > >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > > >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > > >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > > >> work. > > >> Maha > > >> > > >> For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, > > >> irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in > > >> general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For > > >> some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects > > >> here would include Mossad and the CIA. > > >> Varun Shekhar > > >> Toronto, CANADA > > >> Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM > > >> 17 > > >> > > >> Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I > > >> suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to > > >> know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was > > >> responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, > > >> Sandeep. > > >> http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ > > >> Rama > > >> sydney, Australia > > >> Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM > > >> 16 > > >> > > >> "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > > terrorist" > > >> > > >> I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had > > >> absolutely NO hand in the incident. > > >> Ganesan > > >> Nj, USA > > >> Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM > > >> 15 > > >> > > >> Maha, > > >> > > >> >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. > > >> > > >> It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. > > >> Anwaar > > >> Dallas, United States > > >> Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM > > >> 14 > > >> > > >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" > > >> > > >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > > >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > > >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > > >> work. > > >> Maha > > >> NJ, United States > > >> Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM > > >> 13 > > >> > > >> Maha, > > >> > > >> Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a > > >> way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". > > >> > > >> "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and > > >> fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." > > >> > > >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html > > >> Anwaar > > >> Dallas, United States > > >> Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM > > >> 12 > > >> > > >> "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > > >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" > > >> > > >> I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic > > >> terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva > > >> terrorists. > > >> Maha > > >> NJ, United States > > >> Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM > > >> 11 > > >> > > >> " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all > > >> possibilities ...." > > >> > > >> Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that > > >> Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. > > >> Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > > >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had > > >> been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. > > >> > > >> In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of > > >> Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India > > >> should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should > > >> avoid over or hasty reactions." > > >> Anwaar > > >> Dallas, United States > > >> Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM > > >> 10 > > >> > > >> Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to > > >> condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why > > >> are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not > > >> indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the > > >> name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame > > >> others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. > > >> drharun > > >> chennai, India > > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM > > >> 9 > > >> > > >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" > > >> > > >> Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's > > >> laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was > > >> really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu > > >> group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish > > >> visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. > > >> > > >> This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious > > >> and irrational people India is up against. > > >> Varun Shekhar > > >> Toronto, CANADA > > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM > > >> 8 > > >> > > >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' > > >> > > >> Nasser > > >> > > >> Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try > > >> to accept the truth. > > >> a k ghai > > >> mumbai, India > > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM > > >> 7 > > >> > > >> http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm > > >> > > >> This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our > > >> great neighbor. > > >> Maha > > >> NJ, United States > > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM > > >> 6 > > >> > > >> An excellent article > > >> > > >> http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm > > >> Ganesan > > >> Nj, USA > > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > > >> 5 > > >> > > >> Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on > > >> the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police > > >> officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in > > >> blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in > > >> Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in > > >> these blasts. > > >> nasar > > >> Raleigh, USA > > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > > >> 4 > > >> > > >> A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is > > >> not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What > > >> diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. > > >> > > >> I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? > > >> And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to > > >> justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the > > >> govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the > > >> culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? > > >> > > >> What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has > > >> been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has > > >> been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the > > >> attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and > > >> makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling > > >> the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this > > >> bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have > > >> been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. > > >> > > >> But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about > > >> terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. > > >> In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, > > >> we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror > > >> attack. > > >> > > >> And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to > > >> justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) > > >> Ganesan > > >> Nj, USA > > >> Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM > > >> 3 > > >> > > >> Dear Mr Raman; > > >> > > >> This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate > > >> attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose > > >> interests are these rouge elements serving? > > >> > > >> What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards > > >> the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to > > >> accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or > > >> stall the new initiatives? > > >> > > >> If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any > > >> 'strings attached'? > > >> > > >> Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose > > >> interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? > > >> > > >> What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on > > >> other's designs? > > >> > > >> The root might be more political and economic, as; > > >> > > >> a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of > > >> dollars involved in the stake. > > >> > > >> b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and > > >> Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of > > >> anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to > > >> concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to > > >> balance the threat from further north. > > >> > > >> c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences > > >> or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also > > >> the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with > > >> Pakistan. > > >> > > >> d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if > > >> ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the > > >> present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this > > >> regard? > > >> > > >> e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted > > >> to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some > > >> sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , > > >> especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? > > >> > > >> f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert > > >> attention from the recent MNIK controversy? > > >> > > >> If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in > > >> the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the > > >> talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. > > >> > > >> JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm > > >> JJohn > > >> Kottayam, India > > >> Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM > > >> 2 > > >> > > >> The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the > > >> Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's > > >> Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection > > >> to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. > > >> S.S.Nagaraj > > >> Bangalore, India > > >> Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM > > >> 1 > > >> > > >> It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want > > >> access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire > > >> west. China also wants access to indian Market. > > >> > > >> Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods > > >> to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is > > >> huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure > > >> and all of them will fall in line. > > >> > > >> Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on > > >> propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will > > >> fall in line. > > >> vibhaas, Doha > > >> vibhaas > > >> Doha, qatar > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From tasveerghar at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 07:15:36 2010 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:15:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voice for Voiceless - Savi Sawarkar's paintings - Exhibition and symposia Message-ID: <484c1051002151745o5ce2db74sbd8ff102215192ce@mail.gmail.com> Dr. K. R. Narayanan Centre for Dalit & Minorities Studies, Jamia Millia Islamia cordially invites you to a Painting, Graphic, and Drawing Exhibition by Eminent Dalit artist Savi Sawarkar & students of the Faculty of Fine Arts and Dr. K. R. Narayanan Centre for Dalit & Minorities Studies curated by Theatre Activist Lokesh Jain Voice for Voiceless (Understanding Social Exclusion through Plastic and Performing Arts) inauguration by Shri. Tejendra Khanna Hon’ble Lt. Governor of Delhi in the august presence of Professor Sukhadeo Thorat Chairman, University Grants Commission Mr. Najeeb Jung, IAS Vice-Chancellor, Jamia Millia Islamia Venue M. F. Hussain Art Gallery, Jamia Millia Islamia 18 February 2010, 5:00 PM Mujtaba 9810372761 Programmes * Reflections on the Workshop on Understanding Social Exclusion through Plastic and Performing Arts by participant students of the Faculty of Fine Arts and Dr. K. R. Narayanan Centre for Dalit & Minorities Studies, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi Chair: Professor Mujtaba Khan, Director of the Centre Guests of Honour: Professor S. Ghazanfar H. Zaidi, Dean, Faculty of Fine Arts Vinay Kumar, Dy. Secretary, Lalit Kala Academy Serah G., Korean Visual Artist 19.02.2010 3:00 PM M. F. Hussain Art Gallery * Dramatic Dance Performance Devdasi Gods and Me by Jaya Iyer 20.02.2010 3.00 PM M. F. Hussain Art Gallery * Media and Minorities – Stereotype Images and Prejudices. Visual presentation followed by a discussion with researcher and documentary filmmaker Yousuf Saeed 22.02.2010 3:00 PM M. F. Hussain Art Gallery * Afro-Modern Dance Performance - In-solidarity by Diepiriye Kukku followed by talk on Blues People Aesthetics. 23.02.2010 3:00 PM M. F. Hussain Art Gallery * Showcasing documentaries by Ajay Bhardwaj. Kitte Mil ve Mahi (when the twain shall meet) From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 13:16:52 2010 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:16:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Article: How to Make Masculinity Stop Hurting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you want to comment on this article, visit http://psychologynews.posterous.com/article-how-to-make-masculinity-stop-hurting Excerpts from http://carnalnation.com/content/38206/44/masculinity-doesnt-hurt?page=0,0 - How do you grow up into a masculinity, a maleness, an adult manhood, despite this culture's obsession with bad boys and lunkheads, to be a caring protective provider, to make effective, positive changes in this world, to build something that will last, to be generous with your heart and mind and love and time? In this GI Joe society, where the most common toys for little boys are guns and tanks and trucks, where the constant credo of "big boys don't cry!" echoes in all of our ears, despite our sex, despite our progressive parents, we cut our teeth on the masculinity that confines and withholds and withdraws basic human emotional experiences, denying they even exist, ruling that anything not invulnerable and impenetrable is weak, girly, or inappropriate for a "real man." Feminism is a powerful gateway to gender theory, to breaking down the expectations placed on people because of their gender. There are deep-seated inadequacies built into modern masculinity; the expectations of provision, stoicism, and brute force set up just about everyone to fail. Restrictions on oneself based on gender are not new; undoing that limitation moves at a snail's pace, taking decades or perhaps generations to implement and rebuild. It is essential to go through the deconstruction, through the analysis, to learn the concepts and words and language in order to move into a new occupation of gender that is no longer painful, no longer stinging whenever we are on the subway or interacting with our bosses or on a date or talking to our mothers, but rather celebratory, a gendered dynamic which is full of communication with others, full of desire, sexually freeing, open-hearted and true, letting our radiance come shining through our every interaction. If we keep going through the deconstruction for long enough, we will find the healing, then the construction, to reach the rebuilding, the fixing, the health—reaching a masculinity that is no longer painful. From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Feb 16 13:39:18 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:39:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?The_Nomadic_City_Appropriates_the_?= =?windows-1252?q?Street=85?= Message-ID: <775FB60D-CE7E-4A43-B46C-D6F8B5158F71@sarai.net> dear all, Please do read this essay. extremely important that we think with solly about cities. warmly jeebesh http://www.cluster.eu/the-nomadic-city-appropriates-the-street/ The Nomadic City Appropriates the Street… …and disrupts its grid¹ Solomon Benjamin ‘Developmentalism’ is now a morbid zeal, mobilized to survey, to GIS, to digitize, to research, and colonize ‘Third World Cities.’ And in this zeal, lies the panoptic desire to turn the steel frame of the Nation State into The Grid and the Rule of Law, the Master Plan that poses the activist academic as an emancipator, speaking on behalf of the voiceless poor. And with this, a formalization of the Grid into a distinct street away from the city. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 14:36:32 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia Message-ID: Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security measure. ----- Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST LUCKNOW: Supporting the fatwa issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) against use of full-body scanner for security checks for access to high security areas, country’s well-known Islamic seminary Darul Uloom, Deoband, too expressed serious reservations about such a practice as per the Sharia. Vice-chancellor of the seminary, Maulana Abdul Khalik Madrasi on Monday approved of the FCNA ruling on grounds that such screening of human bodies was in gross violation of the Islamic law both for men as well as women. Be it the full body screening (FBS) or any other technology on the same lines, such things are totally against the Sharia. “It is like exposing yourself in nude in front of others,” Maulana Abdul Khalik told reporters in Muzaffarnagar. He was replying to a question on whether the FCNA fatwa was in line with the Sharia or not. “Haya (modesty) is an extremely important element of human life in Islam. Properly covering the human body — that of both, men and women — can help to check a number of untoward situations like eve-teasing,” Maulana Khalik said. “Such things can be allowed only and only if it comes up to be a matter of life and death,” he added. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/Body-scanning-violation-of-Sharia-Darul-Uloom/articleshow/5578311.cms Airport body scanners: European readers' views http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8506103.stm From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 14:45:22 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:45:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Full-body scan trials at Delhi airport from May Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002160115y43f47658n76f875b29b2719a9@mail.gmail.com> We appreciate the Govt for this and making us atleast feel safer. http://igovernment.in/site/full-body-scan-trials-delhi-airport-may-36812 Full-body scan trials at Delhi airport from May Currently security checks at airports include pat-down searches, door frame metal detectors and hand-held device scansPublished on 02/03/2010 - 10:36:32 AM By Murali Krishnan *New Delhi:* India will start using full-body scanners to screen passengers at the international airport here on a trial basis from May and decide by the end of the Commonwealth Games in October who will get the multi-million dollar contract to supply such equipment. Currently security checks at airports include pat-down searches, door frame metal detectors and hand-held device scans. But these can mainly detect metals and not non-metallic objects that can be kept hidden in one's underwear like the one carried by Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a Nigerian passenger, on a North-Western airline from Amsterdam to Detroit on Christmas. The plastic explosives Abdulmutallab concealed in his underwear failed to detonate properly, resulting only in flames and popping sounds. As part of the process to strengthen security, all ground staff and airline officials will be issued biometric identification cards from March with dedicated points to gain entry into Delhi airport, a top official in the Civil Aviation Ministry said. "This is a secure and efficient means of identification," the official said, explaining that the biometric card will have an embedded micro-chip incorporating some tamper-proof features of an individual that will be virtually impossible to forge. "It will have an individual's unique physical traits such as fingerprint, the pattern of the iris, facial features. Given the era we live in, biometric procedures in the aviation sector is essential," the official said. Around 30,000 people work at airports daily, including the security personnel, and the process of biometric cards will cost no more than Rs one crore. Speaking about body scanners, which have left people worried over intrusion into their privacy because of its potential to scan through clothes, the official said there was no cause for worry and the government has already decided to introduce the scanners. "We need around 125-200 full-body scanners for Delhi and Mumbai. The trials will run through the end of the Commonwealth Games. These scanners cost between Rs 8 million and Rs 10 million apiece," the official said. He said trial runs will not only give the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security, the nodal agency to frame security standards at airports, a constructive insight into functioning of equipment but also which company is suited best to be given the order. "Only a handful of countries like the US, Britain, France and Israel manufacture these scanners. Most of the scanners on trial here will be from US companies. The trials will also help us assess performance during power fluctuations or outages." The official also sought to allay apprehensions that the full-body scanners that will be deployed at airports will compromise an individual's right to privacy and modesty, as they have the provision to convert the images into graphics. "At Amsterdam's Schipol Airport, the scanners are retrofitted with software that only projects a stylised human figure on to the computer rather than the actual body image," he said. From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 16 15:57:55 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:57:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000301caaef2$b5f7b930$21e72b90$@in> Yes, well said Mr. Pawan, Mr. Aditya It’s a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics/fascists. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. However, Mr. Chidambaram succeed little bit as Home minister (since he was totally failure as finance minister) and able to strengthen our intelligence and security compared to his predecessor. Actually terrorist prime target was Asho Ashram and nearby hotel but due to tight security prevailing their due to earlier input given by intelligence agency, they made attack at nearby situated German bakery. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Pawan Durani Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:05 PM To: Javed Cc: sarai list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? Good one Javed ! This group would probably support you well for a well deserved Subject line. Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" by using this method. Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this group which started to doubt Batla House as well. Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... inflicted by 1000 cuts and the handlers of "non state actors". The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light vigils , while ignoring the threats in the name of "sickularism". And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where do i get designer candles.....!!! Hurt !!! Pawan PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially the brother sister from WB. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: > Pune And After > Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should > India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on > hold? > > B. Raman > http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 > > Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and officials > indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented > German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an act of > terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and > possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came > into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to > the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, died in > the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, > that could have required any special training. The expertise involved > could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to point > an accusing finger at Pakistan. > > The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and > activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the > Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of > Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for > targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were > used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected > target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi > and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his > interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was > interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. > > Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad > House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by > Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by > the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used > to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western > youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German > Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the > German Bakery was targeted. > > Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh > Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well > orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, > Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and > September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over > Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow > up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it > involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance > of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of > Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under > suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the > US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, > which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against > the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's > tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go > ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a > clear picture emerges? > > These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the > policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. > of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and > should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and investigation > of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. > > B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of > India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical > Studies, Chennai. > > COMMENTS : > HAVE YOUR SAY > Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM > 21 > > Maha, > > >> what points? > > The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the > headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous > blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the > suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been > visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is > more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or > Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open mind > and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > reactions."" > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM > 20 > > Varun, > > >> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and > obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who want to > blame some Hindu group. > > Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from > you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open > mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty > reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM > 19 > > "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." > > what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk > propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. There > some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are > turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu terrorism. > > It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not convinced > about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM > 18 > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > work. > Maha > > For the next little while, we are going to have put up with mendacity, > irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in > general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For > some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects > here would include Mossad and the CIA. > Varun Shekhar > Toronto, CANADA > Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM > 17 > > Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu group, I > suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to > know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was > responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, > Sandeep. > http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ > Rama > sydney, Australia > Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM > 16 > > "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist" > > I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had > absolutely NO hand in the incident. > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM > 15 > > Maha, > > >> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. > > It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM > 14 > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" > > Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu > terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas > will be able to link it to them through their great investigative > work. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM > 13 > > Maha, > > Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a > way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". > > "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and > fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." > > http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM > 12 > > "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" > > I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic > terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva > terrorists. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM > 11 > > " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all > possibilities ...." > > Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that > Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. > Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way > that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had > been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. > > In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of > Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India > should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should > avoid over or hasty reactions." > Anwaar > Dallas, United States > Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM > 10 > > Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to > condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why > are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not > indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the > name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame > others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. > drharun > chennai, India > Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM > 9 > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" > > Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's > laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was > really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local Hindu > group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish > visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. > > This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious > and irrational people India is up against. > Varun Shekhar > Toronto, CANADA > Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM > 8 > > "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' > > Nasser > > Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try > to accept the truth. > a k ghai > mumbai, India > Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM > 7 > > http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm > > This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our > great neighbor. > Maha > NJ, United States > Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM > 6 > > An excellent article > > http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > 5 > > Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast > aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police > frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on > the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police > officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in > blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in > Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in > these blasts. > nasar > Raleigh, USA > Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > 4 > > A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, India is > not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What > diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. > > I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? > And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to > justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did the > govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the > culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? > > What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has > been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has > been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the > attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and > makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling > the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this > bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have > been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. > > But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about > terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will get. > In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, > we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror > attack. > > And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to > justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) > Ganesan > Nj, USA > Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM > 3 > > Dear Mr Raman; > > This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate > attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose > interests are these rouge elements serving? > > What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence towards > the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to > accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or > stall the new initiatives? > > If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there any > 'strings attached'? > > Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose > interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? > > What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on > other's designs? > > The root might be more political and economic, as; > > a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of > dollars involved in the stake. > > b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and > Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of > anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to > concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to > balance the threat from further north. > > c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible consequences > or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also > the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations with > Pakistan. > > d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if > ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the > present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this > regard? > > e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted > to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite some > sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of foreigners , > especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? > > f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert > attention from the recent MNIK controversy? > > If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in > the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the > talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. > > JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm > JJohn > Kottayam, India > Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM > 2 > > The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the > Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's > Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in protection > to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. > S.S.Nagaraj > Bangalore, India > Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM > 1 > > It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want > access to that. americans are practically beggars including the entire > west. China also wants access to indian Market. > > Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods > to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is > huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such measure > and all of them will fall in line. > > Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on > propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will > fall in line. > vibhaas, Doha > vibhaas > Doha, qatar > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 16:11:35 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:11:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: <000301caaef2$b5f7b930$21e72b90$@in> References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> <000301caaef2$b5f7b930$21e72b90$@in> Message-ID: I wonder if just having a few security guards associated with private agencies is enough to ensure adequate security and threaten terrorists to not keep bombs there, considering that during 26/11, 10 terrorists were not afraid of such security in Taj and other hotels which they attacked as well. Rakesh From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 16 16:08:49 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:08:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000401caaef4$3d9923a0$b8cb6ae0$@in> We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization issuing fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group, why? Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody wants to do it willingly, but terrorist activity forced to do the same. So, instead of giving fatwa against this, Deoband must control the terrorists and do something to stop the terrorism. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security measure. ----- Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST LUCKNOW: Supporting the fatwa issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) against use of full-body scanner for security checks for access to high security areas, country’s well-known Islamic seminary Darul Uloom, Deoband, too expressed serious reservations about such a practice as per the Sharia. Vice-chancellor of the seminary, Maulana Abdul Khalik Madrasi on Monday approved of the FCNA ruling on grounds that such screening of human bodies was in gross violation of the Islamic law both for men as well as women. Be it the full body screening (FBS) or any other technology on the same lines, such things are totally against the Sharia. “It is like exposing yourself in nude in front of others,” Maulana Abdul Khalik told reporters in Muzaffarnagar. He was replying to a question on whether the FCNA fatwa was in line with the Sharia or not. “Haya (modesty) is an extremely important element of human life in Islam. Properly covering the human body — that of both, men and women — can help to check a number of untoward situations like eve-teasing,” Maulana Khalik said. “Such things can be allowed only and only if it comes up to be a matter of life and death,” he added. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/Body-scanning-violation-of-Sharia-Darul-Uloom/articleshow/5578311.cms Airport body scanners: European readers' views http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8506103.stm _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4864 (20100213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 16 16:40:29 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:10:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <338597.37148.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   I could not help smiling. You are right. We often get into cutting the nose to spite the face not realising that blood-loss is bringing in death.   Following comments are not directed at you. Only prompted by your mail.   Whether Muslim, Hindu or whichever religious-animal or religious-mob it is, they should stay away from interfering on such matters that are secular both in opting to introduce and in their application.   Would we rather want stringent security checks on the basis of religious or racial profiling? Would we prefer intrusive full-body-search/frisking?   "Full-Body-Scanning" does sound very foreboding. There would be two legitimate concerns:   Pt1. Does it bombard the body with harmful Rays? Will frequent exposure be detrimental to health? Pt2. Is a person rendered nude to whoever is monitoring the scan?   The FCNA Fatwa endorsed by the Darul Uloom, Deobandh shows concern over Pt2.   Available information suggests that there is no  'nude' image of a person going through the Full-Body-Scan. It is a very nebulous image.   The post by Pawan Durani mentions: "At Amsterdam's Schipol Airport, the scanners are retrofitted with software that only projects a stylised human figure on to the computer rather than the actual body image,"   In fact (I was once told) a not-so-well-meaning smart X-Ray technician could manage getting an image with a silhouette of the body, contours and all.   I guess that is why Maulana Khalik has said. “Such things can be allowed only and only if it comes up to be a matter of life and death".   Another way of looking at it is that it is in fact a "matter of life and death" for many if the "Full-Body-Scan" will be an effective tool and is not a Health-Hazard.   The link from BBC had this interesting comment:   -  "I frequently pass through scanners at Russian airports, such as Moscow and St Petersburg.     I have to say I actually find the whole process more dignified.   It is also a vast improvement on the regular process and circus you get in UK airports, which involves removing belts, coats, shoes and so on.     You also avoid the issue of people setting off the metal detectors and having to pass through repeatedly until the offending item is found.    The only concern in the back of my mind when travelling frequently is what the health risks might be, if any." (NICK, ST PETERSBURG, RUSSIA)   Kshmendra   --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 2:36 PM Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security measure. ----- Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST LUCKNOW: Supporting the fatwa issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) against use of full-body scanner for security checks for access to high security areas, country’s well-known Islamic seminary Darul Uloom, Deoband, too expressed serious reservations about such a practice as per the Sharia. Vice-chancellor of the seminary, Maulana Abdul Khalik Madrasi on Monday approved of the FCNA ruling on grounds that such screening of human bodies was in gross violation of the Islamic law both for men as well as women. Be it the full body screening (FBS) or any other technology on the same lines, such things are totally against the Sharia. “It is like exposing yourself in nude in front of others,” Maulana Abdul Khalik told reporters in Muzaffarnagar. He was replying to a question on whether the FCNA fatwa was in line with the Sharia or not. “Haya (modesty) is an extremely important element of human life in Islam. Properly covering the human body — that of both, men and women — can help to check a number of untoward situations like eve-teasing,” Maulana Khalik said. “Such things can be allowed only and only if it comes up to be a matter of life and death,” he added. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/Body-scanning-violation-of-Sharia-Darul-Uloom/articleshow/5578311.cms Airport body scanners: European readers' views http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8506103.stm _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 18:58:48 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:58:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Screening of 'Doon School Chronicles' on Mon, Feb 22, Prithvi House, Mumbai Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chandni Parekh Date: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:07 PM From: "Vikalp at Prithvi - Mumbai" VIKALP @ PRITHVI invites you to the screening of DOON SCHOOL CHRONICLES Directed by David MacDougall 143 min |1997/2000 Monday 22nd Feb 2010 / 7pm / Prithvi House, Opp Prithvi Theatre, Janki Kutir, Juhu Church Road, Mumbai – 49. Admission Free, On a First Come – First Seated Basis. The screening will be followed by a discussion on issues related to education. About The Film This intimate and groundbreaking study of India's most prestigious boys' boarding school is the most recent work of renowned ethnographic filmmaker David MacDougall. In this original and beautifully photographed film MacDougall examines not only the life of the boys in the school and the culture associated with that life; he also inquires into the school's "social aesthetics," the qualities of place, material objects, and social interaction that provides a distinctive backdrop for the everyday life of this community. Sometimes called "the Eton of India," Doon School has nevertheless developed its own characteristic style and presents a curious mixture of privilege and egalitarianism. The school was established by a group of Indian nationalists in the 1930s to produce a new generation of leaders who would guide the nation after Independence. Since then it has become highly influential in the creation of the new Indian elites and has come to epitomize many aspects of Indian postcoloniality. Shot over a two-year period, the film explores the social aesthetics and ideology of the school through its rituals, the physical environment it has created, and its effects upon several boys of different ages and temperaments. The film is divided into ten "chapters," each headed by a text taken from school documents. This narrative structure lends great cohesiveness to the film and at the same time facilitates classroom use and helps focus discussion on the key themes and issues explored. Reviews "An extraordinarily insightful and intimate exploration of the social and cultural landscape of India's most elite boys' boarding school. In following the boys' daily routines and dramas, the film also affords us a rare glimpse at processes of postcolonial Indian identity formation. This is a wonderful teaching tool that will enhance any course dealing with issues of adolescence, education, institutional structure and 'habitus,' or postcolonial elites. My students were stupefied by the eloquence, independence, and maturity of the Doon School boys." -- Lucien Taylor, Asst. Prof. of Anthropology, Univ. of Colorado, Boulder "The Doon School Project in India by David MacDougall is perhaps the most noteworthy digital ethnographic film project." -- Jay Ruby, Prof. Emeritus of Anthropology, Temple University, in The Last 20 Years of Visual Anthropology - A Critical Review (2005) "Without doubt the Doon Project will provide plentiful material for discussion of such matters as the place of such a school in a democratic society; the acculturation of children; identity in the old sense versus 'identity' in its new sense of national or cultural conformism; how an élite perpetuate its values; or, at a more experiential level, how we may each position ourselves in relation to the machineries of social constraint. Nevertheless, simply to call these anthropological films would, while true, be a little like calling Things Fall Apart [by Chinua Achebe] an anthropological novel. They are a major contribution to our screen culture, and deserve to be seen well beyond the confines of the discipline." -- Dai Vaughan, film editor, novelist, and author of For Documentary (University of California Press, 1999), in Visual Anthropology (Vol. 18, 2005) "Doon School Chronicles will take its place among the classics of ethnographic cinema. It is essential viewing for a wide array of classes in cultural anthropology, Asian and Indian studies, visual anthropology, education and childhood studies, and post-colonial studies. An excellent accompaniment to the film is the book, 'Constructing Post-Colonial India: National Character and the Doon School,' by anthropologist Sanjay Srivastava (Routledge, 1998)." -- http://www.berkeleymedia.com Awards Margaret Mead Film Festival honoree Assn. for Asian Studies honoree American Anthropological Assn. selection Society for Visual Anthropology selection Royal Anthropological Institute Film Festival honoree Bilan du Film Ethnographique, Paris, honoree Gottingen Intl. Ethnographic Film Festival honoree This screening is brought to you by Vikalp: Films for Freedom in association with Prithvi Theatre For more information on Vikalp at Prithvi activities, contact: Anand Patwardhan @ 9819882244 Or log onto www.prithvitheatre.org Please send us your comments and feedback at vikalp.prithvi at gmail.com From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Feb 16 20:29:37 2010 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:59:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <336010.89083.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> There is nothing wrong with intiatives such as these.But the fact remains that till the army calls the shots in Pakistan Indians should accept the terrorist acts as a cost of how Pakistan state exists in the current state. The collective memory is short but facts remain that Pak tried to evade responsibilty of the Bombay attack and has tried to evade persecuting the perpetarators. People like Hafiz Saeed and Masood Azhar are still being patronized. Hamid Mir is saying on TV that Pakistan middle class does not find anything wrong with the establishment's support of Jihad in Kashmir. Sohail Tanvir, a player who has played in IPL for a season, talks on national TV about "hinduo ki zehniyat". Indians have enough hatred of Pakistan as well.But it needs to be repeated again and again that there is absolutely no equivalence between the two states in terms of sponsoring cross border terrorism.That is what keeps the Pak army in business.Its hard to get a corporation to abandon its business idea. --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? > To: "cashmeeri" > Cc: "Sarai" > Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 12:08 AM > Dear Mr. Aima, > > I find your reasoning hard to follow. Understandably, the > Pakistani  > textbooks that spew hatred towards India are a cause for > concern, as  > much as a whole tranche of Hindi films made in Bombay in > recent  > years, that spewed hatred towards Pakistan were also a > cause for  > concern. However, it is programmes and initiatives like > 'Aman Ki  > Asha' (howsoever flawed they may be) that are probably our > last hope  > in being able to get a different kind of conversation > going, one that  > addresses prejudices and misconceptions in BOTH countries. > > I have several Pakistani citizens as friends, some stay in > Delhi,  > others stay in Lahore and Karachi, and still others stay in > London,  > New York and Toronto. I have no trouble in distinguishing > them from  > their governments, just as they have no trouble > distinguishing me  > from the Government of India. I will always, and in any and > every  > circumstance, (even in times of war and conflict) welcome > direct,  > close and intimate relationships between the peoples of > India and  > Pakistan as the only possible antidote to the insanity of > aggression. > > I do not care whether or not that makes either me, or them > (my  > Pakistani friends) a traitor to our respective nation > states. I  > strongly advocate treason to nations and nation states (on > both sides  > of the border) if that is a way of advancing the cause of > peace. > > I think we should ask very seriously why we should not be > traitors  > when called upon to go to war. To refuse to be a traitor in > those  > circumstances is in my view an act of cowardice and malice. > We should  > all be traitors to our states, in India, Pakistan and > elswhere, when  > it is ethically incumbent on us to be so. > > best > > Shuddha > > > On 15-Feb-10, at 7:45 PM, cashmeeri wrote: > > > Anil Athale in his Rediff article "Peace with > Pakistan: Chasing a  > > mirage" referred to Pakistani Textbooks teaching the > children to  > > hate India and Hindus. > > http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/feb/11/peace-with-pakistan- > > > chasing-a-mirage.htm > > > > Nirupama Subramanian, correspondent for The Hindu in > Pakistan, in  > > her article "Awaiting changes to a syllabus of hate" > gives an  > > expanded view  on the hate taught in Pakistani > Textbooks. > > > > It will be educative towards understanding why "Aman > Ki Asha" could  > > possibly be "A Foolish Asha". > > > > It is relevant to mention that the Textbooks mentioned > are from the  > > National Curriculum. Expectedly, what is taught in the > Madrassas  > > would be more heightened in preaching and propagating > hate. > > > > Under Musharraf, "For three years, 30 scholars > commissioned by SDPI  > > pored over textbooks in four subjects taught for > Classes 1 to 12:  > > Social Studies/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and > Civics." > > > > They detailed the hate taught and the selectivity in > recounting  > > history, in their 2004 report, "The Subtle Subversion: > The State of  > > Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan." > > > > This "became the basis for a major revision of the > national  > > curriculum undertaken by the Musharraf regime in > 2006." > > > > New Texbooks with the proposed changes have not been > introduced in  > > Pakistan as yet. > > > > Physicist Dr AH Nayyar says "My fear, is that the > government may  > > not have the political strength to bring in a > progressive education  > > policy. They may succumb to pressures of various kinds > and end up  > > bringing in a hopelessly muddled policy." > > > > Physicist Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy says  "Another > generation has been  > > lost because the process has taken too long," . And > until the new  > > textbooks are introduced, millions of children will > continue to  > > learn in their Urdu lessons in schools about the > differences  > > between Hindus and Muslims in a hatred-generating way, > about  > > "India’s evil designs against Pakistan" in their > Social Studies,  > > and that Bangladesh was a result of a conspiracy by > India with  > > assistance from "Hindus living in East Pakistan." > > > > ........... aalok aima > > > > > > http://www.sacw.net/article953.html > > > > Will Pakistan’s schools get a curriculum that > weed’s out hate? > > Tuesday, 9 June 2009 / Nirupama Subramanian > > > > The Hindu, June 9, 2009 > > Awaiting changes to a syllabus of hate > > by Nirupama Subramanian > > > > All the focus is on madrasa reforms but Pakistan’s > schools are also  > > seen as encouraging extremism, while the government > has shown  > > little urgency about implementing a revised > curriculum. > > > > On a recent weekday afternoon, a small group of > youngsters gathered  > > at a meeting hall in Islamabad to discuss how to > combat extremism,  > > militancy and terrorism in Pakistan. Listed were > top-notch  > > speakers, including two members of Parliament and the > well-known  > > physicist, Pervez Hoodbhoy. > > > > Dr. Hoodbhoy, who teaches at the Quaid-e-Azam > University in the  > > Pakistan capital, spoke passionately and at length, on > a theme that  > > he has worked to highlight for years: the education > imparted to  > > Pakistani children is flawed and encourages extremism, > intolerance  > > and ignorance. He showed the group, mostly > undergraduate students,  > > slides from an illustrated primer for the Urdu > alphabet he picked  > > from a shop in Rawalpindi: alif for Allah; bay for > bandook (gun);  > > tay for takrao (collision, shown by a plane crashing > into the Twin  > > Towers); jeem for jihad; kay for khanjar (dagger); and > hay for hijab. > > > > This was not a prescribed textbook, but another set of > slides he  > > showed had excerpts from a 1995 government-approved > curriculum for  > > Social Studies, which stated that at the end of Class > V, the child  > > should be able to acknowledge and identify forces that > may be  > > working against Pakistan; demonstrate by actions a > belief in the  > > fear of Allah; make speeches on jehad and shahadat > (martyrdom);  > > understand Hindu-Muslim differences and the resultant > need for  > > Pakistan; India´s evil designs against Pakistan; be > safe from  > > rumour-mongers who spread false news; visit police > stations;  > > collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and National > Guards; and  > > demonstrate respect for the leaders of Pakistan. > > > > "Instead of teaching our children about the nice > things in this  > > world like the colours of flowers, about the wonders > of the  > > universe, we are teaching them to hate," he said. The > school  > > curriculum was one reason, he said, why Pakistanis > were in denial  > > that the militants and extremists now terrorising the > entire  > > country were home-grown products, and why many tended > to  > > externalise the problem with conspiracy theories about > an  > > "external" hand. > > > > At the end of the discussion, which included a > question-and-answer  > > session, the group was asked how many thought > Pakistan´s present  > > problems were the consequence of an "Indian hand." A > quarter of the  > > group put up its hands. Next, the students were asked > how many  > > thought the problems were the result of an American > conspiracy to  > > destabilise Pakistan and deprive it of its nuclear > weapons: more  > > than three-fourths of the group sent their hands up > without a moment > > ´s hesitation. > > > > The irony was that this was the "youth group" of a > non-governmental  > > organisation, the Liberal Forum of Pakistan. The > students had  > > reserved their maximum applause for a speaker who > projected the  > > widespread line that Pakistan´s problems began only > after 2001, and  > > are the fallout of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. > > > > "Was there a single incident of terrorism before that? > A single  > > suicide bombing? No." he said. The speaker was an > official of the  > > Ministry of Youth Affairs. > > > > In the search for solutions to the crisis sweeping > Pakistan and  > > threatening to tear it apart, the international > community has  > > tended to focus on madrasas as "terrorist factories." > But for Dr.  > > Hoodbhoy and others who have been fighting a long > battle for urgent  > > changes in Pakistan´s national school curriculum and > the prescribed  > > school textbooks, children getting a > government-approved education  > > in the public school system are at equal risk. > > > > "Madrasas are not the only institutions breeding hate, > intolerance,  > > a distorted world view. The educational material in > government-run  > > schools do much more than madrasas. The textbooks tell > lies, create  > > hatred, inculcate militancy…" This was the damning > conclusion of a  > > landmark research project by the Islamabad-based > Sustainable  > > Development Policy Institute. > > > > For three years, 30 scholars commissioned by SDPI > pored over  > > textbooks in four subjects taught for Classes 1 to 12: > Social  > > Studies/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and Civics. > The startling  > > findings of their labour came out in a 2004 > publication, "The  > > Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and > Textbooks in Pakistan." > > > > The much-written about research unleashed a huge > debate on what was  > > being taught in Pakistan´s schools, and became the > basis for a  > > major revision of the national curriculum undertaken > by the  > > Musharraf regime in 2006. The new curriculum has made > several big  > > changes. There is a conscious move to teach tolerance > and respect  > > for diversity, and the open vilification of India is > absent. It  > > also does not insist on imposing Islamic religious > teaching on non- > > Muslim students. Religion is to be taught in focussed > courses,  > > rather than being infused in Social Studies, Civics, > Urdu and English. > > > > Unfortunately, so far, no move has been made to > introduce new  > > textbooks that reflect the changes. "The revised > curriculum is a  > > huge departure from the earlier one. But whether the > changes it  > > prescribes will be implemented at all is not clear to > us. The more  > > it is delayed, the less and less we are sure it is > going to come,"  > > said A.H. Nayyar, research fellow at SDPI and one of > the initiators  > > of the project. > > > > The changes in the curriculum are up on the Internet > site of the  > > Ministry of Education. For Grades 4 and 5 Social > Studies, the  > > curriculum has dropped the learning outcomes > prescribed by the 1995  > > and 2002 curricula, focussing instead on providing an > "unbiased"  > > education that aims to build informed citizens > equipped with  > > analytical skills and "values such as equality, social > justice,  > > fairness, diversity, and respect for self and diverse > opinions of  > > others." > > > > The SDPI recommendation that history be taught as a > separate  > > subject instead of being lumped into Pakistan Studies > was accepted  > > by the framers of the revised curriculum. So, for the > first time, a  > > curriculum has been framed for history as a separate > subject from  > > Grades 6 to 8. > > > > In contrast to the earlier approach in the Pakistan > Studies  > > curriculum, in which the history of Pakistan begins > with the day  > > the first Muslim set foot in India, the revised > curriculum includes  > > a study of the Indus valley civilisation, of Hinduism, > Buddhism and  > > Jainism, and of the ancient Maurya and Gupta > dynasties. > > > > The curriculum appears keen to emphasise a composite > South Asian  > > history from which Pakistan took birth including the > "joint Hindu- > > Muslim" efforts in the struggle for independence. The > Pakistan  > > Studies curriculum for Grades 9 and 10 wants children > to learn  > > about the multicultural heritage of Pakistan and "get > used to the  > > idea of unity in diversity," a big no-no earlier. The > revised  > > curriculum also has a component on "peace studies" and > conflict  > > resolution. > > > > One reason new textbooks based on the revised > curriculum have not  > > come out yet, Dr. Nayyar speculated, may be that the > 1998 national  > > educational policy introduced by the shortlived Nawaz > Sharif  > > government, remains in force till 2010. The Pakistan > People´s Party- > > led government could be waiting to introduce its own > education  > > policy, and usher in the changes to the curriculum and > the  > > textbooks along with this, he said. > > > > Even the draft new education policy is ready, based on > a two-year- > > old White Paper. It too reflects a major shift from > the 1998  > > policy, which laid down that education should enable > the citizens  > > to lead their lives as true practising Muslims > according to the  > > teachings of Islam as prescribed in the Quran and > Sunnah. It also  > > made the teaching of Nazra Quran a compulsory subject > from Grades 1  > > to 8, and the learning of selected verses from the > Quran  > > thereafter, in clear violation of the Constitution > that Islam will  > > not be imposed on non-Muslims. > > > > By contrast, the draft new policy makes it clear that > only Muslim  > > children will be provided instruction in Islamiyat, > while  > > minorities will be provided an education in their own > religion. The  > > new policy will provide the framework for the > implementing the new  > > curriculum and introducing new textbooks. > > > > The bad news is that in April, the federal Cabinet put > off  > > approving the draft indefinitely. Only after the > Cabinet approves  > > the policy can it be placed before Parliament. A > report in Dawn  > > newspaper said the Cabinet wanted the Education > Ministry to make  > > the policy "more comprehensive, covering every aspect > of education  > > sector which needs improvement along with an > implementable work  > > plan." But no urgency is visible in the Ministry to > get cracking on  > > this task. Another concern is that the Education > Minister is not  > > known for his progressive views, especially on gender > issues. > > > > "My fear," said Dr. Nayyar, a soft-spoken physicist > who retired  > > from teaching at the Quaid-e-Azam University some > years ago, "is  > > that the government may not have the political > strength to bring in  > > a progressive education policy. They may succumb to > pressures of  > > various kinds and end up bringing in a hopelessly > muddled policy." > > > > Yet the need for reforms in education has never been > as urgent and  > > necessary as now. As Dr. Hoodbhoy has pointed out in > several recent  > > articles, while a physical takeover of Pakistan by the > Taliban may  > > be a far cry, extremist ideology has taken root in > young minds  > > across the country, thanks to a flawed education > system. > > > > Compared to the 1.5 million who study in madrasas, an > estimated 20  > > million children are enrolled in government schools. > Dr. Nayyar  > > laments that in the five years since the publication > of the SDPI  > > report, children who were 11 years old at the time > have completed  > > their matriculation. They read the old textbooks, and > learnt a way  > > of thinking about themselves and the world that will > prove hard to  > > change. > > > > "Another generation has been lost because the process > has taken too  > > long," he said. And until the new textbooks are > introduced,  > > millions of children will continue to learn in their > Urdu lessons  > > in schools about the differences between Hindus and > Muslims in a  > > hatred-generating way, about "India’s evil designs > against  > > Pakistan" in their Social Studies, and that Bangladesh > was a result  > > of a conspiracy by India with assistance from "Hindus > living in  > > East Pakistan." > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with  > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 21:23:15 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:23:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia In-Reply-To: <000401caaef4$3d9923a0$b8cb6ae0$@in> References: <000401caaef4$3d9923a0$b8cb6ae0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin Although I am neither their official (or unofficial) spokesperson nor do I endorse their fatwas, but below is a list of links where you can find fatwas issued by the Deoband seminary AGAINST TERRORISM (not that these make any difference). Kindly also note that a fatwa is not an order or a decree, nor it is legally binding on any one. Literally, fatwa means an opinion. But the word has been made out to be something horrible - like a missile issued by a Ayatollah Khomieni. Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4045862.ece Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-seminary-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism-838162.html Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terror http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33848320080601 Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism http://www.idsa.in/TWIR/6_1_2008_DarulUloom Deoband declaration against terrorism http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=1874 YouTube - Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_AoEUwFZA Islamic body issues fatwa against terrorism http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?576402 Punjab chief mufti issues fatwa against terrorism http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-chief-mufti-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism/articleshow/1820782.cms Ulema, Muftis ratify fatwa against terrorism http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959951100.htm 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/6000-muslim-clerics-endorse-fatwa.html Syed Soharwardy's fatwa against terrorism http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=2475287 Imams issue fatwa against terrorism http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-against-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/ On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Bipin wrote: > We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization issuing fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group, why? > > Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody wants to do it willingly, but terrorist activity forced to do the same. So, instead of giving fatwa against this, Deoband must control the terrorists and do something to stop the terrorism. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia > > Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of > the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as > the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will > condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security > measure. > > ----- > Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom > Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST > From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 21:30:23 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:00:23 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia References: Message-ID: Yes, of course. Troublesome word is "everyone" though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javed" To: "sarai list" Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:06 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia > Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of > the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as > the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will > condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security > measure. > > ----- > Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom > Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST > > LUCKNOW: Supporting the fatwa issued by the Fiqh Council of North > America (FCNA) against use of full-body scanner for security checks > for access to high security areas, country’s well-known Islamic > seminary Darul Uloom, Deoband, too expressed serious reservations > about such a practice as per the Sharia. > > Vice-chancellor of the seminary, Maulana Abdul Khalik Madrasi on > Monday approved of the FCNA ruling on grounds that such screening of > human bodies was in gross violation of the Islamic law both for men as > well as women. > > Be it the full body screening (FBS) or any other technology on the > same lines, such things are totally against the Sharia. “It is like > exposing yourself in nude in front of others,” Maulana Abdul Khalik > told reporters in Muzaffarnagar. He was replying to a question on > whether the FCNA fatwa was in line with the Sharia or not. “Haya > (modesty) is an extremely important element of human life in Islam. > Properly covering the human body — that of both, men and women — can > help to check a number of untoward situations like eve-teasing,” > Maulana Khalik said. “Such things can be allowed only and only if it > comes up to be a matter of life and death,” he added. > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/Body-scanning-violation-of-Sharia-Darul-Uloom/articleshow/5578311.cms > > Airport body scanners: European readers' views > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8506103.stm > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 22:35:39 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:35:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Doha Debates in New Delhi Message-ID: <6353c691002160905j4fb76b24q83a09d6b7cfd5905@mail.gmail.com> Muslims “get fair deal” in India *Link* - http://frontierindia.net/wa/muslims-%E2%80%9Cget-fair-deal%E2%80%9D-in-india/602/ The Qatar-based Doha Debates staged an audacious discussion on discrimination against Muslims here yesterday (Monday) just three days after suspected Islamist terrorists killed nine people in a bomb blast in western India. More than 300 people in the audience at St Stephen’s College, part of Delhi University, voted overwhelmingly by 63.1 per cent to 37.9 per cent against a motion that “Muslims are not getting a fair deal in India”. Security for the debate at St Stephen’s college, one of India’s most prestigious university campuses, was particularly tight with the theme of the debate only publicised two days before the event took place. “There have been minor incidents during debates in the past with demonstrators shouting obscenities and even spitting at the debaters on stage so we were particularly sensitive to any possible trouble,” said a member of the student organising committee. Speaking against the motion, Sachin Pilot, India’s Minister of State for Communications and Information, claimed the government was addressing cases where Muslims had been disadvantaged, but insisted they played a full part in Indian life. “Muslims are represented by the top three Bollywood actors, they are in the top echelons of sports and culture. Muslims have a better deal in India than they have in any neighbouring country or indeed anywhere in the world.” Received to loud applause as a former graduate of St Stephen’s, which currently has six alumni in India’s government cabinet, Pilot made history in 2004 when he became India’s youngest member of parliament. He pointed out that India, where Muslims have lived alongside people of many other religions in peace for hundreds of years, was one of the only countries in the world where Muslims have declared a fatwa against terrorism. M.J. Akbar, a journalist and publisher and himself a Muslim, joined Pilot in dismissing suggestions that Muslims were not getting a fair deal in a country where for “decades they have been engaged in uninterrupted democracy”. While admitting that some lived in severe deprivation, he said their situation was no worse than a proportional cross-section of any other religious group. India’s 130 million Muslims represent 13 per cent of the country’s 1.17 billion population. Seema Mustafa, a journalist and political commentator, arguing for the motion, said the government had done little for Muslims who had been especially victimised by security forces since the 9/11 attacks on America. Muslims had also been barred from many jobs in the Indian civil service although she admitted that India had had three Muslim presidents since independence. Teesta Setalvad, a prominent civil rights activist and one of two Muslims on the panel, claimed that Muslims were being excluded from the “elite political and economic leadership of India. “The Muslim today lives in a segregated class leading to ghettoisation and a consequently very dangerous situation. Above all, Muslim women are discriminated against to make sure a credible leadership does not emerge.” She said that wherever there was “a level playing field, Muslims succeed” and that while “Indian people” can accept Muslims at every level “it is the government that is prejudiced.” The Doha Debates make a point of discussing highly controversial issues. Last year in Washington they argued a motion that it was “time for the US administration to get tough on Israel” which was supported by 63 per cent of the audience at Georgetown University. The year before, at Cambridge University in the UK, participants rejected a motion that Britain’s role in the Middle East was “in terminal decline” by 68 to 32 per cent. The Doha Debates are a unique forum for free speech in the Arab world. Chaired by Tim Sebastian, the internationally renowned award-winning broadcaster, the series has been broadcast on BBC World News since January 2005. BBC World News reaches nearly 300 million people in more than 200 countries. From info at fondation-langlois.org Tue Feb 16 22:36:38 2010 From: info at fondation-langlois.org (Fondation Daniel Langlois) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:06:38 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] 2010 DOCAM Summit Message-ID: <23aae21f8f5ff4becfcce3180017acea@fondation-langlois.org> The DOCAM (Documentation and Conservation of the Media Arts Heritage) Research Alliance presents the 2010 DOCAM Summit, which will mark the end of five years of research. DOCAM is an international research alliance initiated by the Daniel Langlois Foundation for Art, Science, and Technology. Its main objective is to develop new methodologies and tools to address the issues of preserving and documenting digital, technological, and electronic works of art. The interdisciplinary event aims to bring together artists, researchers, students and museum practitioners (conservators, curators, technicians, etc.) in order to expose and explore the issues raised by current research. At this occasion, DOCAM will launch its new website, featuring the following main research results: - A Cataloguing Guide for New Media Collections; - A Preservation Guide for Technology-Based Artworks; - The DOCAM Glossaurus; - The DOCAM Documentary Model; - A Technological Timeline. Supported by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (SSHRC) as part of its Community-University Research Alliances (CURA) program, DOCAM includes several partners such as the Musée d’art contemporain de Montréal, the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts, the National Gallery of Canada, the Canadian Centre for Architecture, the Canadian Heritage Information Network, as well as university departments such as that of Université du Québec à Montréal (UQAM), Université de Montréal and McGill. DOCAM would also like to thank Hexagram UQAM, main collaborator of this event: - March 3, 2010: Professional workshops regarding Conservation/Preservation and Cataloguing (space is limited / registration required) - March 4 & 5, 2010: International conference open to the public (Agora Hydro-Québec, Coeur des sciences, 175 avenue du Président-Kennedy) - March 4 (evening event) : Public Launch of the new DOCAM website (Chaufferie, Coeur des sciences, 175 avenue du Président-Kennedy) Summit detailed program: http://www.docam.ca/docam2010/en/ The Summit is free admission. However we invite you to register by adding your email address to the DOCAM mailing list: http://www.docam.ca/docam2010/en/contact.php For questions, please email: info at docam.ca From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 23:21:10 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:21:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? In-Reply-To: <336010.89083.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <336010.89083.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi I was just thinking about this: Aman ki Asha or Asha ka Aman??? On a more serious note, all this talk about peace has completely tried to engage in a huge sense of sentimentalism and emotions, without realizing the fact that Pakistan state and the Pakistan elites who may be against India, look at India from the 1971 war point of view, and they will always brand India as an enemy. And these factions or elites do hold power to a substantial degree in Pakistan. Similarly, such kind of people are there in India as well. Hope is not bad, for when all hope is lost, all what is left is death. But there should be a sense of realism attached with hope, and I would only ask for one thing: don't attach sentimentalism and emotions with such a peace process. It will only lead to pains. It's better to be rational, realistic and let's keep sentimentalism and emotions out. If you feel emotional, sing songs. Let's instead concentrate on what all can be actually achieved and start working on it. Rakesh From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 01:16:47 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 01:16:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ashoka is looking for peace bloggers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Altaf Makhiawala We're looking for writers to contribute to the Ashoka Peace blog. Become one of our official contributors and help grow a movement that believes in the power of social innovation to resolve conflict and build a more peaceful society. You'll have the opportunity to learn about entrepreneurial approaches to building peace and to explore and share your ideas on some of the most innovative ideas out there. *Who's the ideal Peace Blogger?* - A background in social entrepreneurship and/or the peace building/conflict resolution/human rights fields. - Experience writing, preferably prior blogging experience. - Interest or experience using social media tools. - Ability to seek out creative stories and recognize innovations, and write about them in a compelling way. *Time commitment:* At a minimum, you'll commit to contributing one blog post per week from now through May. *Application process: *Send your resume and a 250-450 word blog post on peace and social entrepreneurship (or a past blog post you've written) to Sarah Jefferson at sjefferson at ashoka.org. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 01:56:06 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 01:56:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Making websites friendlier for the differently abled Message-ID: Article here: http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/www/a-web-of-apathy From justjunaid at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 04:27:37 2010 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:57:37 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested Message-ID: Dozens of young boys have been arrested across Kashmir under draconian laws over the last few weeks. The charges that have been filed against them range from "waging war against the state" to defiling "state honor". In recent months Indian military and police commanders have described protests in Kashmir as "agitational terrorism" and "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify violent clampdown on protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 people, mostly teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured by indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile thousands of people have been injured. Many of them will be left with permanent physical disabilities. The police authorities have banned any peaceful assembly of people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and other towns have reported police brutalities. Even the villages are not being spared. Only yesterday, mourning villagers were attacked by CRPF troopers in Redwani in South Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most of the injuries were inflicted above the waist showing an intention to kill. India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, but in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel dimension. The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline and demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to deceive its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy has been there for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought back every few years to earn brownie points. National Conference government which has proved its inability to function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't even remove an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has sought to play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent to please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and Kashmir police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, perhaps in a bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian army's help. Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart from the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is time, the conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity with Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's inhuman tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to stop human rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that Kashmir is a political issue that needs to be solved, with the full involvement of Kashmiris. _____________________ Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K gov; Riyaz Wani http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for ‘waging war against the state’, a crime punishable with death or life in jail. The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against eight stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section 121 of CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home Department told The Indian Express that the government was ready with PSAs against “20 more such youths”. The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court on Monday. Police sought their remand for eight days, which was soon granted by Judge Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told the court, were directly involved in pelting stones at police and security forces. However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said the youths were held in random raids across the city and were not involved in stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of CrPC. J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety Act during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during protests over the death of two women in Shopian. IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said he was not in a position to give “the exact number of youths” booked under PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. “I am out of station and don’t have the exact number,” Ahmad told The Indian Express. Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed _____________ Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed Peerzada Ashiq peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows of chairs. “Yes madam. Present madam”, replied a boy standing among 16 jostled youth with red cheeks and red hands because of cold. This is no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday in downtown Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The police presented them before the court on Monday for extending their police remand. But after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the boys to judicial remand for 15 days. “How did you know all the names of the arrested youth in advance?” judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. “Through reliable sources,” replied the investigation officer. “How is it possible? I don’t know anyone of these boys. Who are these reliable sources?” asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation officer, looking at the floor, said: “They are active stone throwers, and involved for the last five years.” There was sudden commotion in the court room, when Zahid, one of the accused, interjected saying, “This is for the first time we are in the lock up,” adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, who was on the bike when the police arrested him. The boy, wearing a pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are joined by others in the room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, requesting them to wipe tears and be mum. “Don’t worry justice will be done,” said Joo adding since Chief Minister Omar Abdullah told the media we are launching a crackdown against stone-pelters, the police are picking up anyone who comes in the way. The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in heavy chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against the state and insulting the national honour. The punishment includes life imprisonment. The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar and were presented before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. Lawyer Joo contested that the police cannot impose the waging a war against the nation unless a magistrate has done an investigation in a case and the police cannot do it on their own. While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a row, their relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their innocence: “We were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and arrested us,” they said. While a policeman shouted back: “They have snatched our peace.” From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 06:37:45 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested References: Message-ID: "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to be solved, with the full involvement of Kashmiris." Agreed. But isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? Which Kashmiris? A democratic exercise requires people to elect their representatives who can talk on their behalf. But those who are chosen, are found to be going "to any extent to please their masters in Delhi" I don't think the Indian govt or UN can talk to every Kashmiri on this earth for the resolution of the problem. It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions towards resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate people, so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a climate towards resolution of the issue. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junaid" To: ; "Junaid" Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > Dozens of young boys have been arrested across Kashmir under draconian > laws over the last few weeks. The charges that have been filed against > them range from "waging war against the state" to defiling "state > honor". In recent months Indian military and police commanders have > described protests in Kashmir as "agitational terrorism" and > "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify violent clampdown on > protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 people, mostly > teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured by > indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the > number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile > thousands of people have been injured. Many of them will be left with > permanent physical disabilities. The police authorities have banned > any peaceful assembly of people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and > other towns have reported police brutalities. Even the villages are > not being spared. Only yesterday, mourning villagers were attacked by > CRPF troopers in Redwani in South Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured > by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most of the injuries were inflicted > above the waist showing an intention to kill. > > India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, but > in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel dimension. > The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline and > demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian > state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to > deceive its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris > in Azad Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy > has been there for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought > back every few years to earn brownie points. > > National Conference government which has proved its inability to > function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't even remove > an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has sought to > play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent to > please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for > leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel > police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and > Kashmir police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, > perhaps in a bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian > army's help. > > Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart > from the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is > time, the conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity > with Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's > inhuman tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to > stop human rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that > Kashmir is a political issue that needs to be solved, with the full > involvement of Kashmiris. > _____________________ > Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K gov; > > Riyaz Wani > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 > > The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for > ‘waging war against the state’, a crime punishable with death or life > in jail. > > The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against eight > stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week > while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section > 121 of CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home > Department told The Indian Express that the government was ready with > PSAs against “20 more such youths”. > > The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court on Monday. Police > sought their remand for eight days, which was soon granted by Judge > Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told the court, > were directly involved in pelting stones at police and security > forces. > > However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said the youths were held > in random raids across the city and were not involved in > stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of CrPC. > > J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety Act > during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be > booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released > shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during > protests over the death of two women in Shopian. > > IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said he was not in a position to give “the > exact number of youths” booked under PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. “I am > out of station and don’t have the exact number,” Ahmad told The Indian > Express. > Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed > > _____________ > Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed > > Peerzada Ashiq > peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com > > Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a > raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows of chairs. “Yes madam. > Present madam”, replied a boy standing among 16 jostled youth with red > cheeks and red hands because of cold. > > This is no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday > in downtown Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The > police presented them before the court on Monday for extending their > police remand. But after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the > boys to judicial remand for 15 days. > > “How did you know all the names of the arrested youth in advance?” > judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. “Through > reliable sources,” replied the investigation officer. > > “How is it possible? I don’t know anyone of these boys. Who are these > reliable sources?” asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation > officer, looking at the floor, said: “They are active stone throwers, > and involved for the last five years.” > > There was sudden commotion in the court room, when Zahid, one of the > accused, interjected saying, “This is for the first time we are in the > lock up,” adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, who was on > the bike when the police arrested him. > > The boy, wearing a pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are > joined by others in the room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, > requesting them to wipe tears and be mum. “Don’t worry justice will be > done,” said Joo adding since Chief Minister Omar Abdullah told the > media we are launching a crackdown against stone-pelters, the police > are picking up anyone who comes in the way. > > The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in > heavy chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against > the state and insulting the national honour. The punishment includes > life imprisonment. The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar > and were presented before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. > > Lawyer Joo contested that the police cannot impose the waging a war > against the nation unless a magistrate has done an investigation in a > case and the police cannot do it on their own. > > While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a row, their > relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their innocence: > “We were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and arrested > us,” they said. > > While a policeman shouted back: “They have snatched our peace.” > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Wed Feb 17 12:17:20 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:17:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 6.4 / 5.0] Body scanning violation of Sharia Message-ID: <000401caaf9d$0dfe0d00$29fa2700$@in> Dear Javed, Thanks for your reply and mentioning so many links against fatwa. Glad to know that you are not endorsing their fatwa. But, with your posting of fatwa details, you have not mentioned your views or comments and so understood that you agreed to it. All the links of fatwa you have posted came after 26/11 attack and that too they condemned terrorism/violence of any kind in general, but they have not issued fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group specifically. This is what actually required today to pressurize them. They are issuing fatwa specifically in case of Taslima Nasrin and Salman Rushdi, where they have not at all involved in any kind of violence but expressing their views in book. Even congress could not give shelter to Taslima fearing to lose their Muslim votes. Taslima thought that she will get shelter in secular country like India, but she proved wrong and so our secularism is also proved wrong. Our secularism relates to minority only. This is height of vote bank politics and minor appeasement. I am sorry to write such hard language, but truth is always bitter and hard. Please note that I am not against any community/minority, but where we stay, we have to faithful with our country with full heart. Whoever, trying to harm the country must be condemned with full-heart, whoever it may be majority or minority. The organization like Deoband and others should pressurize their few brothers to stop support to outside terrorists group, may be by way of sleeper cell or active cell, since it's much more chances that they will listen and believe them. If they does this much then also terrorism can be controlled heavily in India and country will be highly oblige/respect them. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:23 PM To: Bipin Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia Dear Bipin Although I am neither their official (or unofficial) spokesperson nor do I endorse their fatwas, but below is a list of links where you can find fatwas issued by the Deoband seminary AGAINST TERRORISM (not that these make any difference). Kindly also note that a fatwa is not an order or a decree, nor it is legally binding on any one. Literally, fatwa means an opinion. But the word has been made out to be something horrible - like a missile issued by a Ayatollah Khomieni. Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4045862.ece Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-seminary-issues-fatwa-ag ainst-terrorism-838162.html Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terror http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33848320080601 Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism http://www.idsa.in/TWIR/6_1_2008_DarulUloom Deoband declaration against terrorism http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=1874 YouTube - Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_AoEUwFZA Islamic body issues fatwa against terrorism http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?576402 Punjab chief mufti issues fatwa against terrorism http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-chief-mufti-issues-fatwa-aga inst-terrorism/articleshow/1820782.cms Ulema, Muftis ratify fatwa against terrorism http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959951100.htm 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/6000-muslim-clerics-endorse-fatwa.html Syed Soharwardy's fatwa against terrorism http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=2475287 Imams issue fatwa against terrorism http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-again st-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/ On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Bipin wrote: > We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization issuing fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group, why? > > Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody wants to do it willingly, but terrorist activity forced to do the same. So, instead of giving fatwa against this, Deoband must control the terrorists and do something to stop the terrorism. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia > > Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of > the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as > the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will > condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security > measure. > > ----- > Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom > Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4870 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 17 09:46:00 2010 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:16:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <356716.945.qm@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Javed, What we see happening on these fatwas is substantially different than what you are writing.In practice it is enforced with more ferocity than a legal court order.To me it seems similar to the decrees given by Khap Panchayats in Northern India villages where nobody in the village is allowed to deal with the person decreed upon.The spontaneity of the actions are so fast, it is very difficult for anyone to approach courts of laws.Police as usual is inactive. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Javed wrote: > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia > To: "Bipin" > Cc: "sarai-list" > Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 9:23 PM > Dear Bipin > Although I am neither their official (or unofficial) > spokesperson nor > do I endorse their fatwas, but below is a list of links > where you can > find fatwas issued by the Deoband seminary AGAINST > TERRORISM (not that > these make any difference). Kindly also note that a fatwa > is not an > order or a decree, nor it is legally binding on any one. > Literally, > fatwa means an opinion. But the word has been made out to > be something > horrible - like a missile issued by a Ayatollah Khomieni. > > Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4045862.ece > > Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-seminary-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism-838162.html > > Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terror > http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33848320080601 > > Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.idsa.in/TWIR/6_1_2008_DarulUloom > > Deoband declaration against terrorism > http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=1874 > > YouTube - Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_AoEUwFZA > > Islamic body issues fatwa against terrorism > http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?576402 > > Punjab chief mufti issues fatwa against terrorism > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-chief-mufti-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism/articleshow/1820782.cms > > Ulema, Muftis ratify fatwa against terrorism > http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959951100.htm > > 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism > http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/6000-muslim-clerics-endorse-fatwa.html > > Syed Soharwardy's fatwa against terrorism > http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=2475287 > > Imams issue fatwa against terrorism > http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-against-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/ > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Bipin > wrote: > > > We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization > issuing fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group, why? > > > > Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody > wants to do it willingly, but terrorist activity forced to > do the same. So, instead of giving fatwa against this, > Deoband must control the terrorists and do something to stop > the terrorism. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Javed > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM > > To: sarai list > > Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of > Sharia > > > > Although almost everyone in the west is debating the > pros and cons of > > the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), > but as soon as > > the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in > India will > > condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the > best security > > measure. > > > > ----- > > Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom > > Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am > IST > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 17 09:48:19 2010 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:18:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <613687.26903.qm@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Rakeshjee, I think it is called HOPING AGAINST HOPE. (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? > To: "Rahul Asthana" > Cc: "Sarai" , "cashmeeri" > Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 11:21 PM > Hi > > I was just thinking about this: Aman ki Asha or Asha ka > Aman??? > > On a more serious note, all this talk about peace has > completely tried to > engage in a huge sense of sentimentalism and emotions, > without realizing the > fact that Pakistan state and the Pakistan elites who may be > against India, > look at India from the 1971 war point of view, and they > will always brand > India as an enemy. And these factions or elites do hold > power to a > substantial degree in Pakistan. Similarly, such kind of > people are there in > India as well. > > Hope is not bad, for when all hope is lost, all what is > left is death. But > there should be a sense of realism attached with hope, and > I would only ask > for one thing: don't attach sentimentalism and emotions > with such a peace > process. It will only lead to pains. It's better to be > rational, realistic > and let's keep sentimentalism and emotions out. If you feel > emotional, sing > songs. Let's instead concentrate on what all can be > actually achieved and > start working on it. > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From blauloretta at yahoo.com Wed Feb 17 10:58:03 2010 From: blauloretta at yahoo.com (Gustaff Harriman Iskandar) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:28:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] World Urban Youth Assembly International Essay Competition Message-ID: <567855.73320.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Introduction The world urban population has grown at very high rates over the past two decades. According to the UN-HABITAT State of the World Cities Report 2008/2009, it is estimated that by the middle of the 21st century, half of the world’s population will be living in urban areas. While the urban population in developed countries will remain unchanged in the next two decades, the urban populations in the developing world will more than double. The majority of city inhabitants in the developing world are overwhelmingly young people, and are the most affected by issues of poverty, exclusion, and unemployment, access to housing, water and sanitation. The theme for this year’s UN-HABITAT World Urban Forum which is being held in Rio de Janeiro from 22 to 26 March, “The right to the City– bridging the urban divide” seeks to engage practitioners and policy makers to rethink the urban utopia and identifying the best practices and actions in every city, creating a better world where everyone can live with dignity, respect and citizenship. Young people living in urban areas can play a significant role in addressing the challenges facing decision and policy makers planning for and managing cities. Young people from around the world participating in the World Urban Youth Assembly on 19 and 20 March will have an opportunity to deliberate and make recommendations to better inform the urban agenda. UN-HABITAT invites youth from around the globe to participate in the World Urban Youth Assembly International Essay Competition to generate ideas and solutions to address youth challenges in cities. More info please visit: http://www.unhabitat.org/content.asp?typeid=19&catid=531&cid=7844 From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 12:51:56 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:51:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia In-Reply-To: <356716.945.qm@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <356716.945.qm@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear A.K.Malik Can you please cite some examples of when and how were the Indian fatwas "enforced with more ferocity than a legal court order". I would like to repeat that fatwa has no legal standing. Ordinary Muslims do seek fatwas from muftis and try to apply them in their lives. But if they don't apply an obtained fatwa, no one is going to punish them. No religious police is chasing you to follow a fatwa. Treating a fatwa as legally binding is more connected with the local politics and interpretation. There are many enlightened scholars today (such as Asghar Ali Engineer) who are trying to inform Muslim community that a fatwa is nothing but an opinion - they can take an advice but don't have to necessarily follow it. I think it is the mainstream media which has demonized the fatwas as something special. Please don't take it seriously. J On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:46 AM, A.K. Malik wrote: > Dear Mr Javed, >              What we see happening on these fatwas is substantially different than what you are writing.In practice it is enforced with more ferocity than a legal court order.To me it seems similar to the decrees given by Khap Panchayats in Northern India villages where nobody in the village is allowed to deal with the person decreed upon.The spontaneity of the actions are so fast, it is very difficult for anyone to approach courts of laws.Police as usual is inactive. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Javed wrote: > >> From: Javed >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia >> To: "Bipin" >> Cc: "sarai-list" >> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 9:23 PM >> Dear Bipin >> Although I am neither their official (or unofficial) >> spokesperson nor >> do I endorse their fatwas, but below is a list of links >> where you can >> find fatwas issued by the Deoband seminary AGAINST >> TERRORISM (not that >> these make any difference). Kindly also note that a fatwa >> is not an >> order or a decree, nor it is legally binding on any one. >> Literally, >> fatwa means an opinion. But the word has been made out to >> be something >> horrible - like a missile issued by a Ayatollah Khomieni. >> >> Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4045862.ece >> >> Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism >> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-seminary-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism-838162.html >> >> Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terror >> http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33848320080601 >> >> Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism >> http://www.idsa.in/TWIR/6_1_2008_DarulUloom >> >> Deoband declaration against terrorism >> http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=1874 >> >> YouTube - Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_AoEUwFZA >> >> Islamic body issues fatwa against terrorism >> http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?576402 >> >> Punjab chief mufti issues fatwa against terrorism >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-chief-mufti-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism/articleshow/1820782.cms >> >> Ulema, Muftis ratify fatwa against terrorism >> http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959951100.htm >> >> 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism >> http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/6000-muslim-clerics-endorse-fatwa.html >> >> Syed Soharwardy's fatwa against terrorism >> http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=2475287 >> >> Imams issue fatwa against terrorism >> http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-against-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/ >> >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Bipin >> wrote: >> >> > We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization >> issuing fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group, why? >> > >> > Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody >> wants to do it willingly, but terrorist activity forced to >> do the same. So, instead of giving fatwa against this, >> Deoband must control the terrorists and do something to stop >> the terrorism. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Bipin >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] >> On Behalf Of Javed >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM >> > To: sarai list >> > Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of >> Sharia >> > >> > Although almost everyone in the west is debating the >> pros and cons of >> > the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), >> but as soon as >> > the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in >> India will >> > condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the >> best security >> > measure. >> > >> > ----- >> > Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom >> > Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am >> IST >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 13:01:06 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:01:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 5.6 / 5.0] RE: Body scanning violation of Sharia In-Reply-To: <000301caaf9c$b73fc850$25bf58f0$@in> References: <000401caaef4$3d9923a0$b8cb6ae0$@in> <000301caaf9c$b73fc850$25bf58f0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin I posted so many links since you mentioned that the Deoband never issues fatwas against terrorism. And yes, in most cases I don't agree with their fatwas (especially those against liberal issues such as Tasleema) and I also believe that their fatwas against terrorism will have very little or almost no affect on the actual situation. Even many Pakistani madrasas issue out general fatwas against terrorism all the time. I doubt if these madrasas or their appeals can reduce terrorism today. Its a complex problem which has been much worsened by the west's "war against terrorism". The only way out is to have a dialogue with the people who are involved in terrorism. Bring them to the table and let us hear what they have to say. There is no other solution. Javed On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Bipin wrote: > Dear Javed, > > Thanks for your reply and mentioning so many links against fatwa. Glad to > know that you are not endorsing their fatwa. But, with your posting of fatwa > details, you have not mentioned your views or comments and so understood > that you agreed to it. > > All the links of fatwa you have posted came after 26/11 attack and that too > they condemned terrorism/violence of any kind in general, but they have not > issued fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group specifically. This is > what actually required today to pressurize them. They are issuing fatwa > specifically in case of Taslima Nasrin and Salman Rushdi, where they have > not at all involved in any kind of violence but expressing their views in > book. Even congress could not give shelter to Taslima fearing to lose their > Muslim votes. Taslima thought that she will get shelter in secular country > like India, but she proved wrong and so our secularism is also proved wrong. > Our secularism relates to minority only. This is height of vote bank > politics and minor appeasement. I am sorry to write such hard language, but > truth is always bitter and hard. > > Please note that I am not against any community/minority, but where we stay, > we have to faithful with our country with full heart. Whoever, trying to > harm the country must be condemned with full-heart, whoever it may be > majority or minority. The organization like Deoband and others should > pressurize their few brothers to stop support to outside terrorists group, > may be by way of sleeper cell or active cell, since it's much more chances > that they will listen and believe them. If they does this much then also > terrorism can be controlled heavily in India and country will be highly > oblige/respect them. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:23 PM > To: Bipin > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia > > Dear Bipin > Although I am neither their official (or unofficial) spokesperson nor > do I endorse their fatwas, but below is a list of links where you can > find fatwas issued by the Deoband seminary AGAINST TERRORISM (not that > these make any difference). Kindly also note that a fatwa is not an > order or a decree, nor it is legally binding on any one. Literally, > fatwa means an opinion. But the word has been made out to be something > horrible - like a missile issued by a Ayatollah Khomieni. > > Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4045862.ece > > Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-seminary-issues-fatwa-ag > ainst-terrorism-838162.html > > Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terror > http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33848320080601 > > Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.idsa.in/TWIR/6_1_2008_DarulUloom > > Deoband declaration against terrorism > http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=1874 > > YouTube - Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_AoEUwFZA > > Islamic body issues fatwa against terrorism > http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?576402 > > Punjab chief mufti issues fatwa against terrorism > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-chief-mufti-issues-fatwa-aga > inst-terrorism/articleshow/1820782.cms > > Ulema, Muftis ratify fatwa against terrorism > http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959951100.htm > > 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism > http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/6000-muslim-clerics-endorse-fatwa.html > > Syed Soharwardy's fatwa against terrorism > http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=2475287 > > Imams issue fatwa against terrorism > http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-again > st-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/ > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Bipin wrote: > >> We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization issuing fatwa against > terrorists or terrorists group, why? >> >> Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody wants to do it > willingly, but terrorist activity forced to do the same. So, instead of > giving fatwa against this, Deoband must control the terrorists and do > something to stop the terrorism. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Javed >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM >> To: sarai list >> Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia >> >> Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of >> the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as >> the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will >> condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security >> measure. >> >> ----- >> Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom >> Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST >> > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4870 (20100216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4872 (20100216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From justjunaid at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 10:05:07 2010 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:35:07 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Tara, I quote you: "But isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? Which Kashmiris?" End. I absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two follow-up questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones that will lead us to specifics. If anything they will further push us into a metaphysics of denial. I assume you know enough about Kashmir and are aware that there is no shortage of solutions. Indian government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a political issue, and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that remains is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The "right solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free and fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives for Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made it clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be forced down the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's legitimacy and authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows that is, can go to "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the problem). The first step would be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of their problem, that is allow them to find the right solution with a guarantee that it will be accepted. The second question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we really keep telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By asking this question, are you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? If you believe that "the people" have to elect their representatives, how can you in the same breath deny the existence of those same people? I guess the first "concrete suggestions" would be the dismantling of the draconian military and police apparatus from Kashmir: i.e. 1. remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of military and police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA and Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies involved in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. Allow Kashmiris to peacefully express their dissent (remove restrictions on free speech and assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the stranglehold that the security agencies have over the everyday life of people through technics of surveillance and proliferation of threats. Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next ones. At least it will show that the Indian government is sincere in its efforts to solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to tire people out. Junaid On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash wrote: > "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to be solved, with the full > involvement of Kashmiris." > Agreed. But isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > Kashmiris? A democratic exercise requires people to elect their > representatives who can talk on their behalf. But those who are chosen, are > found to be going "to any extent to please their masters in Delhi" > I don't think the Indian govt or UN can talk to every Kashmiri on this earth > for the resolution of the problem. > It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions towards > resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate people, > so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a climate towards > resolution of the issue. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junaid" > To: ; "Junaid" > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > >> Dozens of young boys have been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >> laws over the last few weeks. The charges that have been filed against >> them range from "waging war against the state" to defiling "state >> honor". In recent months Indian military and police commanders have >> described protests in Kashmir as "agitational terrorism" and >> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify violent clampdown on >> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 people, mostly >> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured by >> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >> thousands of people have been injured. Many of them will be  left with >> permanent physical disabilities. The police authorities have banned >> any peaceful assembly of people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >> other towns have reported police brutalities. Even the villages are >> not being spared. Only yesterday, mourning villagers were attacked by >> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most of the injuries were inflicted >> above the waist showing an intention to kill. >> >> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, but >> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel dimension. >> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline and >> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >> deceive its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >> in Azad Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >> has been there for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >> back every few years to earn brownie points. >> >> National Conference government which has proved its inability to >> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't even remove >> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has sought to >> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent to >> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >> Kashmir police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >> perhaps in a bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >> army's help. >> >> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >> from the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >> time, the conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >> with Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >> inhuman tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >> stop human rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >> Kashmir is a political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >> involvement of Kashmiris. >> _____________________ >> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K gov; >> >> Riyaz Wani >> >> >> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 >> >> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >> ‘waging war against the state’, a crime punishable with death or life >> in jail. >> >> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against eight >> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >> 121 of CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >> Department told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >> PSAs against “20 more such youths”. >> >> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court on Monday. Police >> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon granted by Judge >> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told the court, >> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and security >> forces. >> >> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said the youths were held >> in random raids across the city and were not involved in >> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of CrPC. >> >> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety Act >> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >> protests over the death of two women in Shopian. >> >> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said he was not in a position to give “the >> exact number of youths” booked under PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. “I am >> out of station and don’t have the exact number,” Ahmad told The Indian >> Express. >> Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed >> >> _____________ >> Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed >> >> Peerzada Ashiq >> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >> >> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows of chairs. “Yes madam. >> Present madam”, replied a boy standing among 16 jostled youth with red >> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >> >> This is no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >> in downtown Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >> police presented them before the court on Monday for extending their >> police remand. But after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >> boys to judicial remand for 15 days. >> >> “How did you know all the names of the arrested youth in advance?” >> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. “Through >> reliable sources,” replied the investigation officer. >> >> “How is it possible? I don’t know anyone of these boys. Who are these >> reliable sources?” asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >> officer, looking at the floor, said: “They are active stone throwers, >> and involved for the last five years.” >> >> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when Zahid, one of the >> accused, interjected saying, “This is for the first time we are in the >> lock up,” adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, who was on >> the bike when the police arrested him. >> >> The boy, wearing a pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >> joined by others in the room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >> requesting them to wipe tears and be mum. “Don’t worry justice will be >> done,” said Joo adding since Chief Minister Omar Abdullah told the >> media we are launching a crackdown against stone-pelters, the police >> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >> >> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >> heavy chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >> the state and insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >> life imprisonment. The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >> and were presented before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >> >> Lawyer Joo contested that the police cannot impose the waging a war >> against the nation unless a magistrate has done an investigation in a >> case and the police cannot do it on their own. >> >> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a row, their >> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their innocence: >> “We were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and arrested >> us,” they said. >> >> While a policeman shouted back: “They have snatched our peace.” >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 13:07:14 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:07:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Irma Razdan Date: 2010/2/17 Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA To: For my Hindi speaking followers, this is a poem that was authored by a mod of a forum which is my frequent haunt. It is a take on the recent 'Aman ki Asha' program by the Times of India and Jang group of Pakistan, which is supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace project. Newbies, please refer to link. घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा, पीठ में ख़ंजर भोंका जिनने, मानवता को ही छला, आज बोलते चले हैं वोही, कैसी शांति की भाषा, ज़मीन के लालच को धर्म का मुखौटा पहना, जिन जल्लादों ने छीना भारत माँ का गहना, आज उन्ही से रखनी होगी, हमको प्रेम की अभिलाषा वाह रे टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया, क्या खूब है तेरी आशा. देखो कैप्टन कालिया, ऐसा हुआ आपका बलिदान, आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु और क़सब को शायद मिल जाये जीवनदान, छब्बीस-ग्यारह दोहराने को बेचैन हैं जिनके जेहादी, दोस्ती का राग सुना रहे, वही कियानी, ज़रदारी और गीलानी, कौआ चले हंस की चाल, देखो इनकी मीठी भाषा, हमें दोस्ती का पाठ पढ़ाएंगे, अब सूजा अहमद पाशा. हमारे अपने नेताओं ने, देश को भी नहीं बख़्शा नपुंसक से भी कम पौरुष जिनमें, वो करेंगे देश की रक्षा? बातचीत के ज़रिये ये, मिटा देंगे सारे भेद आधा कश्मीर खोने का, इनको ज़रा नहीं खेद, राष्ट्र को किया लज्जित, दी शर्म-अल-शेख़ में निराशा, समझे नहीं हम किसने लिखी आख़िर उस दस्तावेज़ की भाषा. कब तक जयचंदों को जनती रहेगी हे माता! कब तक तेरे बच्चों को होती रहेगी हताशा, आतंकवाद की आग में जब जल रहा है पाकिस्तान, ऐसी हालत में इनके हृदय में जागा है इंसान, दिल्ली मुंबई अहमदाबाद ने जब की थीं जानें क़ुर्बान, मन ही मन खुश होते थे यही पाकी हैवान, देखो भारतवासियों, रखना इतना ध्यान, राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ में ही सदा देना तुम कमान, झूठे धर्म-निरपक्षों से रहना तुम सावधान, वोट बैंक बनकर कभी मत करना मतदान. बोस, पटेल, सावरकर ने, जिस देश को है तराशा, लूट ना ले उसको फिर, यह झूठी अमन की आशा. घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा. English Transliteration: Aman Ki Aasha Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha, Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, manavta ko hi chhala, aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi shanti ki bhaasha, zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta pehna, jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka gehna, aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki abhilaasha, wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai teri Aasha. Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka balidaan, Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad mil jaaye jeevandaan, Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, bechain hain jinkay jehadi, hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki meethi bhaasha, hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab Sooja Ahmed Pasha. Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi baksha, Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh karenge desh ki raksha? baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge saare bhed, aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara nahi khed, Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir us dastavez ki bhasha. Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he maata, Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi hataasha. Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha hai Pakistan, Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, jaaga hai insaan, Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna dhyan, Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada dana tum kamaan, Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna tom saavdhaan, vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna matdaan. Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko hai taraasha, loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman ki aasha. Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha. Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi ------------------------------ From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Feb 16 18:09:04 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:09:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: <000301caaef2$b5f7b930$21e72b90$@in> References: <6b79f1a71002150334k51e7b44o3910cbb3beba4ae5@mail.gmail.com> <000301caaef2$b5f7b930$21e72b90$@in> Message-ID: The matter of the Samjhauta Express is still under investigation, and no one has been exonerated. So please do not jump to conclusions either way. I object to the terms Hindu Terrorism on the same grounds as I object to the terms Islamic Terrorism, but, I find it hard to understand why some people get so agitated when you encounter the expression 'Hindu Terror', when they accept as natural the term 'Islamic Terror'. best Shuddha On 16-Feb-10, at 3:57 PM, Bipin wrote: > Yes, well said Mr. Pawan, Mr. Aditya It’s a fashion now to blame > Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics/fascists. Samjauta > express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they > proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in > India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism > unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing > any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics > of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. > > However, Mr. Chidambaram succeed little bit as Home minister (since > he was totally failure as finance minister) and able to strengthen > our intelligence and security compared to his predecessor. Actually > terrorist prime target was Asho Ashram and nearby hotel but due to > tight security prevailing their due to earlier input given by > intelligence agency, they made attack at nearby situated German > bakery. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list- > bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Pawan Durani > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:05 PM > To: Javed > Cc: sarai list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? > > Good one Javed ! > > This group would probably support you well for a well deserved > Subject line. > Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" by using > this method. > > Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this group which > started > to doubt Batla House as well. > > Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? > > I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... inflicted by > 1000 > cuts and the handlers of "non state actors". > > The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light vigils , while > ignoring > the threats in the name of "sickularism". > > And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where do i get > designer > candles.....!!! > > Hurt !!! > > Pawan > > PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially the brother > sister > from WB. > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed wrote: > >> Pune And After >> Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions? Should >> India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on >> hold? >> >> B. Raman >> http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 >> >> Statements and comments from home minister P.Chidambaram and >> officials >> indicate that the explosion in the well-known and well-frequented >> German Bakery of Pune around 7 PM on February 13, 2010, was an >> act of >> terrorism. The case is under investigation by the local police and >> possibly too by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which came >> into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. According to >> the latest information, nine persons, including one foreigner, >> died in >> the explosion, which appears to have been not a sophisticated one, >> that could have required any special training. The expertise involved >> could have been locally acquired. One must control the reflex to >> point >> an accusing finger at Pakistan. >> >> The NIA's first major investigation was into the travels and >> activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago cell of the >> Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate Hussain Rana, also of >> Chicago, in India to collect operational information required for >> targeting by the LET. Some of the details collected by Headley were >> used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He had also collected >> target details about other places of interest including in New Delhi >> and Pune. These details had not been used till now though his >> interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that the LET was >> interested in another terrorist strike--this time in New Delhi. >> >> Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune was the local Chabad >> House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, which is frequented by >> Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh Ashram frequented by >> the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual guru, who used >> to live in the US and was the mentor of some sections of Western >> youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley were near the German >> Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on February 13. Instead, the >> German Bakery was targeted. >> >> Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or the Rajneesh >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial explosions well >> orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen in Uttar Pradesh, >> Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between November 2007 and >> September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike as one saw over >> Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried unsuccessfully to blow >> up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in Detroit or did it >> involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What is the significance >> of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming resumption of >> Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The dialogue has been under >> suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have anything to do with the >> US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the Helmand province, >> which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of the anger against >> the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany based in Pakistan's >> tribal belt have been showing since September last? Should India go >> ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put them on hold till a >> clear picture emerges? >> >> These are questions which have to be addressed by the NIA and the >> policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes headway. The Govt. >> of India should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and >> should avoid over or hasty reactions. Reconstruction and >> investigation >> of the explosion should have priority and not retaliation against it. >> >> B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, >> Govt. of >> India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical >> Studies, Chennai. >> >> COMMENTS : >> HAVE YOUR SAY >> Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM >> 21 >> >> Maha, >> >>>> what points? >> >> The points raised in my post: "One must remember that Pune is the >> headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. Previous >> blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way that the >> suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had been >> visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my view however it is >> more likely that the blast was the work of Indian Mujahideens or >> Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India should keep an open >> mind >> and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty >> reactions."" >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM >> 20 >> >> Varun, >> >>>> we are going to have put up with mendacity, irrationality and >> obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in general who >> want to >> blame some Hindu group. >> >> Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and obfuscation is from >> you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India should keep an open >> mind and look into all possibilities and should avoid over or hasty >> reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is just beyond you. >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM >> 19 >> >> "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised." >> >> what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write biased junk >> propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to respond them. >> There >> some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots and these losers are >> turning this into some kind of national conspiracy of hindu >> terrorism. >> >> It is interesting you have easily bought this, but still not >> convinced >> about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM >> 18 >> >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative >> work. >> Maha >> >> For the next little while, we are going to have put up with >> mendacity, >> irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems in >> general who want to blame some Hindu group for the latest attack. For >> some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org The list of suspects >> here would include Mossad and the CIA. >> Varun Shekhar >> Toronto, CANADA >> Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM >> 17 >> >> Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some obscure Hindu >> group, I >> suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb blast will care to >> know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored Islamist was >> responsible. Have a look at this and I totally agree with the author, >> Sandeep. >> http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ >> Rama >> sydney, Australia >> Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM >> 16 >> >> "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >> terrorist" >> >> I do not know about that but one thing is sure. Pakistan had >> absolutely NO hand in the incident. >> Ganesan >> Nj, USA >> Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM >> 15 >> >> Maha, >> >>>> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu terrorist. >> >> It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the point raised. >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM >> 14 >> >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" >> >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is work of Hindu >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram Puniyanis, Teestas >> will be able to link it to them through their great investigative >> work. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM >> 13 >> >> Maha, >> >> Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in >> such a >> way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". >> >> "The police had also reportedly found Muslim taqiyahs (skullcaps) and >> fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." >> >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM >> 12 >> >> "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a >> way >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" >> >> I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to be done by islamic >> terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis and other hindutva >> terrorists. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM >> 11 >> >> " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and look into all >> possibilities ...." >> >> Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one must remember that >> Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti Samiti. >> Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in such a way >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a location that had >> been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. >> >> In my view however it is more likely that the blast was the work of >> Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India >> should keep an open mind and look into all possibilities and should >> avoid over or hasty reactions." >> Anwaar >> Dallas, United States >> Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM >> 10 >> >> Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using Malaegaon and Samjhuta to >> condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly dangerous.Dont know why >> are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow Muslims.Have they not >> indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts of terror in the >> name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into yourselves and then blame >> others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. >> drharun >> chennai, India >> Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM >> 9 >> >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to >> cast >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" >> >> Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of it) despite Anwar's >> laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai in Nov/2008 was >> really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad and some local >> Hindu >> group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to massacre even Jewish >> visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning Moslems. >> >> This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the kind of mendacious >> and irrational people India is up against. >> Varun Shekhar >> Toronto, CANADA >> Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM >> 8 >> >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to >> cast >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' >> >> Nasser >> >> Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the Inidam Mjuhidins .Try >> to accept the truth. >> a k ghai >> mumbai, India >> Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM >> 7 >> >> http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm >> >> This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi propaganda to malign our >> great neighbor. >> Maha >> NJ, United States >> Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM >> 6 >> >> An excellent article >> >> http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm >> Ganesan >> Nj, USA >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM >> 5 >> >> Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime activity is to cast >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and then help the police >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He deliberately kept silent on >> the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and conscientious police >> officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits who were involved in >> blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others places in >> Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to gain than Pakistan in >> these blasts. >> nasar >> Raleigh, USA >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM >> 4 >> >> A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As CNN-IBN reports, >> India is >> not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What broadmindedness! What >> diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. >> >> I have a question though. Why were the talks suspended after 26/11? >> And India's position then was till the culprits are brought to >> justice, there will be no talks as it would not be meaningful. Did >> the >> govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss the news that the >> culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? >> >> What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the last 10 years has >> been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of those attacks has >> been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who masterminded the >> attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan Singh goes out and >> makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine statement recycling >> the old ones. He did not bother one bit about this) about bring this >> bunch of culprits to justice as though the previous incidents have >> been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one question. >> >> But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not care one bit about >> terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is what they will >> get. >> In a week, this incident will be forgotten like the hundreds before, >> we will be praising the virtues of peace talks till the next terror >> attack. >> >> And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits to >> justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be continued) >> Ganesan >> Nj, USA >> Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM >> 3 >> >> Dear Mr Raman; >> >> This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks like a deliberate >> attempt in stalling the proposed talks with Pakistan? If so whose >> interests are these rouge elements serving? >> >> What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is Pakistans sentimence >> towards >> the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and was being forced to >> accept the offer of talks by us , so they might want to withdraw or >> stall the new initiatives? >> >> If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the talks, were there >> any >> 'strings attached'? >> >> Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their approach, whose >> interests were the talks going to have a negative impact on? >> >> What were to be our gains, which might have had negative impact on >> other's designs? >> >> The root might be more political and economic, as; >> >> a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive with billions of >> dollars involved in the stake. >> >> b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) between India and >> Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) reduction of >> anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so India might be able to >> concentrate more on more important issues? Like counter measures to >> balance the threat from further north. >> >> c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the possible >> consequences >> or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation with Pakistan, also >> the possible losers if India were to have more amicable relations >> with >> Pakistan. >> >> d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its future direction, if >> ever India and Pakistan were to be on more amicable terms that the >> present of the past.. Who stand to win and who stands to lose in this >> regard? >> >> e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which seems to be scripted >> to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently attemting to ignite >> some >> sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the heart of >> foreigners , >> especially the western world? If so whose interets would it serve? >> >> f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional actors to divert >> attention from the recent MNIK controversy? >> >> If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks with Pakistan, in >> the long term or short term, my call is our country should pursue the >> talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. >> >> JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm >> JJohn >> Kottayam, India >> Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM >> 2 >> >> The timing has surely got to do with the entire focus of the >> Maharashtra government getting concentrated firstly on Rahul Gandhi's >> Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting involved in >> protection >> to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork of local Jihadis. >> S.S.Nagaraj >> Bangalore, India >> Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM >> 1 >> >> It is time india realised that it is a big market and people want >> access to that. americans are practically beggars including the >> entire >> west. China also wants access to indian Market. >> >> Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who wants to sell goods >> to India but at the same time works against our interest. There is >> huge list of countries which can be put in that list. One such >> measure >> and all of them will fall in line. >> >> Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen but Dubai keeps on >> propping up Pakistani "interests". One such measure and Dubai will >> fall in line. >> vibhaas, Doha >> vibhaas >> Doha, qatar >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 05:46:34 2010 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:16:34 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] Conspiracy to shift annual trawling ban period alleged Message-ID: <3457ce861002161616nc3a9a02p2a7412aed5ed9339@mail.gmail.com> Conspiracy to shift annual trawling ban period alleged Staff Reporter :Date:17/02/2010 URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2010/02/17/stories/2010021753120300.htm >From June-August to November-December ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ‘Move is unscientific’ ‘Threat to livelihood of traditional fishermen’ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- KOLLAM: T. Peter, State president of the Kerala Swatanthra Matsya Thozhilali Federation, has alleged that a conspiracy has been hatched to shift the annual trawling ban period from the usual June-August months to November-December. He was inaugurating a dharna by fishermen in front of the collectorate here on Tuesday demanding hike in kerosene allocation for fishing activities. Mr. Peter said that as per information received by him a Central government establishment concerned with the fisheries sector was conducting a study to enable the authorities shift the trawling ban period to November-December. The move was to serve the interests of a handful of big time operators from the mechanised sector, he alleged. ‘Unscientific’ He said that the move would be strongly opposed by the traditional fishermen. Shifting the trawling ban to November-December was not only unscientific but harmful to the livelihood of traditional fishermen. Mr. Peter said that with more houses being electrified in the State there was an excess stock of kerosene with the government and this should be diverted to the traditional fishing sector. Earlier the government had allocated 300 litres of kerosene per month for a 9 HP outboard engine. It was later slashed to 129 litres per month. More kerosene sought He called upon the government to hike allocation of kerosene to traditional fishermen and added that move to hike price of kerosene would be opposed. The dharna was led by federation leaders A. Andrews, P.P. John, S. James and S. Francis. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 14:14:57 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:14:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Aman Ki Asha" - A Foolish Asha? In-Reply-To: <613687.26903.qm@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <613687.26903.qm@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Malik Jee I don't know if we have yet arrived at the stage where it's hoping against hope for the Indian state to assume that no peace is possible with Pakistan state. But yes, if things continue in this direction, we will soon arrive there. Personally, I don't believe anything will change in my lifetime, but then sometimes I too like to be proven wrong. And the peace process which did start in 2003-04 with the Indian cricket team visiting Pakistan and Vajpayee announcing it in Kashmir, could not have been imagined after Kargil and the Parliament attack. The only thing I would add on to is this: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Indian state and Indian citizens should seriously prepare for the worst expecting that peace is not possible in the next 40-50 years and plan accordingly to avoid terror attacks, strengthen counter-terror mechanisms, ensure less and less of injustice in the country and also ensure administrative, police and judicial reforms for betterment of conditions. Rakesh From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 16:25:30 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:25:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) Message-ID: <6353c691002170255r4929ba6t6b6357ac69fbd45@mail.gmail.com> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south Kashmi A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, official sources said today. They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two SLRs -- along with some ammunition. Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home unauthorisedly. Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and a massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted weapons, the sources said. "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental inquiry ordered," the sources said. This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 16:43:28 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:43:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) In-Reply-To: <6353c691002170255r4929ba6t6b6357ac69fbd45@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002170255r4929ba6t6b6357ac69fbd45@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002170313qcc5ce5fp708aea4c31ac21aa@mail.gmail.com> The report in the beginning says: "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, official sources said today. Overpower: o·ver·pow·er (vr-pour) tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. And then we have: "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home unauthorisedly." unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental injury It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to believe? -Thanks Anupam On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI > Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* > > *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a > minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south > Kashmi > > A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in > Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, > official sources said today. > > They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two SLRs -- > along with some ammunition. > > Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they > said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home > unauthorisedly. > > Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and a > massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted > weapons, the sources said. > > "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental > inquiry ordered," the sources said. > > This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. > > The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for > protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Feb 17 15:09:40 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:09:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> Aditya, I regret that you have once again abused the space of liberty on this list by forwarding this idiotic poem, which I have wasted my time by reading. I am normally not a fan of the Times of India, or the Jang Group of Newspapers, but, I have to say, that the steady stream of opposition that their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems to be gathering from the usual suspects makes me even more interested in what the 'Aman ki Asha' initiative is all about. I sincerely hope that it sets a trend, and that other media corporations and other agencies mirror it by setting up their own initiatives for sustaining the resources of peace in South Asia, and especially between India and Pakistan, in these difficult times. Having tasted a bitter defeat after attempting their thuggery on the 'My Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right is now seeking a fruitless second wind, by riding the waves of the regrettable bomb blast that occured in the German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to surf this wave is pathetic. The xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, and no amount of impotent roaring from Matoshtree will make it walk again. I find the poem that you sent, strongly objectionable, because it makes no attempt to distinguish between different kinds of opinion and publics in Pakistan. The poem says - > Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, > man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. For those who do not understand Hindi. These lines can be translated as follows - "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, lives were sacrificed In their hearts, Paki monsters rejoiced" I am aware of the fact that time and again, whenever terrorist atrocities occur in India, a significant section of Pakistani political society condemn acts of terrorism in no uncertain terms. Many people in India do the same when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To lump all Pakistanis (or for that matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who 'rejoice in their hearts' when loss of life occurs, is disgusting. I find your endorsement of this disgusting sentiment shameful. There is a very strong body of public opinion in Pakistan that wants peace in South Asia, and realizes that peace is the only way forward in Pakistan. They act vigilantly against war-mongers and preachers of prejudice in Pakistan, exactly as many of us act vigilantly against the constituency that advocates permanent aggression here. That includes our vigilance against your hate filled agenda. Whenever an atrocity like what happened in Pune occurs, I find that the constituency of rabid right-wing nationalism comes crawling out like maggots to feast on the dead. As if they were waiting for tragedy to strike to once again find their reason for existence. Have none of these people any shame? Have you none at all? Shuddha On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Irma Razdan > Date: 2010/2/17 > Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA > To: > > For my Hindi speaking followers, this is a poem that was authored > by a mod > of a forum which is my frequent haunt. It is a take on the recent > 'Aman ki > Asha' program by the Times of India and Jang group of Pakistan, > which is > supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace project. Newbies, please refer to > link. > > घर घर में आज जगती है, हर > सुबह अमन की आशा, > टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और > दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया > तमाशा, > > पीठ में ख़ंजर भोंका > जिनने, मानवता को ही छला, > आज बोलते चले हैं वोही, > कैसी शांति की भाषा, > > ज़मीन के लालच को धर्म का > मुखौटा पहना, > जिन जल्लादों ने छीना > भारत माँ का गहना, > आज उन्ही से रखनी होगी, > हमको प्रेम की अभिलाषा > वाह रे टाइम्स ऑफ > इंडिया, क्या खूब है तेरी > आशा. > > देखो कैप्टन कालिया, ऐसा > हुआ आपका बलिदान, > आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु और क़सब > को शायद मिल जाये जीवनदान, > छब्बीस-ग्यारह दोहराने > को बेचैन हैं जिनके जेहादी, > दोस्ती का राग सुना रहे, > वही कियानी, ज़रदारी और > गीलानी, > कौआ चले हंस की चाल, देखो > इनकी मीठी भाषा, > हमें दोस्ती का पाठ > पढ़ाएंगे, अब सूजा अहमद > पाशा. > > हमारे अपने नेताओं ने, > देश को भी नहीं बख़्शा > नपुंसक से भी कम पौरुष > जिनमें, वो करेंगे देश की > रक्षा? > बातचीत के ज़रिये ये, > मिटा देंगे सारे भेद > आधा कश्मीर खोने का, इनको > ज़रा नहीं खेद, > राष्ट्र को किया लज्जित, > दी शर्म-अल-शेख़ में निराशा, > समझे नहीं हम किसने लिखी > आख़िर उस दस्तावेज़ की > भाषा. > कब तक जयचंदों को जनती > रहेगी हे माता! > कब तक तेरे बच्चों को होती > रहेगी हताशा, > > आतंकवाद की आग में जब जल > रहा है पाकिस्तान, > ऐसी हालत में इनके हृदय > में जागा है इंसान, > दिल्ली मुंबई अहमदाबाद ने > जब की थीं जानें क़ुर्बान, > मन ही मन खुश होते थे यही > पाकी हैवान, > देखो भारतवासियों, रखना > इतना ध्यान, > राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ > में ही सदा देना तुम कमान, > झूठे धर्म-निरपक्षों से > रहना तुम सावधान, > वोट बैंक बनकर कभी मत करना > मतदान. > > बोस, पटेल, सावरकर ने, जिस > देश को है तराशा, > लूट ना ले उसको फिर, यह > झूठी अमन की आशा. > घर घर में आज जगती है, हर > सुबह अमन की आशा, > टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और > दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया > तमाशा. > > English Transliteration: > > Aman Ki Aasha > > Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, > Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha, > > Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, manavta ko hi chhala, > aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi shanti ki bhaasha, > > zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta pehna, > jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka gehna, > aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki abhilaasha, > wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai teri Aasha. > > Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka balidaan, > Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad mil jaaye jeevandaan, > Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, bechain hain jinkay jehadi, > hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani > Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki meethi bhaasha, > hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab Sooja Ahmed Pasha. > > Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi baksha, > Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh karenge desh ki raksha? > baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge saare bhed, > aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara nahi khed, > Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, > samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir us dastavez ki bhasha. > Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he maata, > Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi hataasha. > > Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha hai Pakistan, > Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, jaaga hai insaan, > Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, > man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. > Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna dhyan, > Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada dana tum kamaan, > Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna tom saavdhaan, > vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna matdaan. > > Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko hai taraasha, > loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman ki aasha. > Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, > Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha. > > Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi > > ------------------------------ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 17:18:48 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:48:48 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] The stars are aligned Message-ID: <5af37bb1002170348l2c041eau238a201a7bc925ee@mail.gmail.com> http://tinyurl.com/ylkcm4l The stars are aligned Tuesday, February 16, 2010 Rakesh Mani It's one of the most remarkable campaigns the subcontinent has seen: a joint peace initiative run by the Times of India, India's most powerful media empire, and the Jang group, Pakistan's most influential media group. Their joint 'Aman ki Asha' (Hope for Peace) initiative looks to develop a stronger Track II channel in the diplomatic and cultural relations between India and Pakistan. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 17:21:04 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:21:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shri Shuddhabrata Senguptaji Namaskar I have merely forwarded a reaction from a common Indian to the recent developments of 'Aman Ki Asha' around. I can see you agitated. Wonder what makes you so uncomfortable! Is it the truth of Islamic-terrorism or the engagement politics and media market-management of Peace? It hardly matters to me how a godamn 'My Name Is Khan' does at the box office. I condenm the protests against it. However, terrorism matters to me and every Indian not how much money a producer makes out of made-up publicity. We don't want protection of a bloody movie; we want security for citizens of this country. You have yet again displayed intolerance and abused my right to participate in this so called 'Liberal' forum. I am not facing this for the first time. It has become usual for me. Wonder if I calculate the wastage of time to us by some of the rhetoric of far extremist, intolerant and left lunatic fringe. Have tolerance in letter and spirit. We have heard enough of your fake Batla House and several other such theories. What happened to them, if I may ask? Pakistan is suffering from something which it initiated decades ago. It will continue to burn. I never objected to views from Pakistani public. Though Kashmir can never be on dialogue table with Pakistan. Nor can it be with terrorists who some glorify in this forum. Congrats to you and other co-founders of Sarai, which completed a decade recently. I pray for more, patience, tolerance and flow of rational thought to the Sarai. And hope you hold/delete/block less/none of our e-mails from now onwards. Even that may be abuse of liberty, something you are very well versed with yourself. I don't want this this to turn into a relay e-mail exchange as has happened in the past. regards 2010/2/17 Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Aditya, > > I regret that you have once again abused the space of liberty on this list > by forwarding this idiotic poem, which I have wasted my time by reading. > > I am normally not a fan of the Times of India, or the Jang Group of > Newspapers, but, I have to say, that the steady stream of opposition that > their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems to be gathering from the usual > suspects makes me even more interested in what the 'Aman ki Asha' initiative > is all about. I sincerely hope that it sets a trend, and that other media > corporations and other agencies mirror it by setting up their own > initiatives for sustaining the resources of peace in South Asia, and > especially between India and Pakistan, in these difficult times. > > Having tasted a bitter defeat after attempting their thuggery on the 'My > Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right is now seeking a fruitless second > wind, by riding the waves of the regrettable bomb blast that occured in the > German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to surf this wave is pathetic. The > xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, and no amount of impotent roaring from > Matoshtree will make it walk again. > > I find the poem that you sent, strongly objectionable, because it makes no > attempt to distinguish between different kinds of opinion and publics in > Pakistan. > > The poem says - > > Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, > man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. > > > For those who do not understand Hindi. These lines can be translated as > follows - > > "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, lives were sacrificed > In their hearts, Paki monsters rejoiced" > > I am aware of the fact that time and again, whenever terrorist atrocities > occur in India, a significant section of Pakistani political society condemn > acts of terrorism in no uncertain terms. Many people in India do the same > when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To lump all Pakistanis (or for that > matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who 'rejoice in their hearts' when loss > of life occurs, is disgusting. I find your endorsement of this disgusting > sentiment shameful. > > There is a very strong body of public opinion in Pakistan that wants peace > in South Asia, and realizes that peace is the only way forward in Pakistan. > They act vigilantly against war-mongers and preachers of prejudice in > Pakistan, exactly as many of us act vigilantly against the constituency that > advocates permanent aggression here. That includes our vigilance against > your hate filled agenda. > > Whenever an atrocity like what happened in Pune occurs, I find that the > constituency of rabid right-wing nationalism comes crawling out like maggots > to feast on the dead. As if they were waiting for tragedy to strike to once > again find their reason for existence. > > Have none of these people any shame? Have you none at all? > > Shuddha > > > > > > On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Irma Razdan > Date: 2010/2/17 > Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA > To: > > For my Hindi speaking followers, this is a poem that was authored by a mod > of a forum which is my frequent haunt. It is a take on the recent 'Aman ki > Asha' program by the Times of India and Jang group of Pakistan, which is > supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace project. Newbies, please refer to link. > > घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, > टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा, > > पीठ में ख़ंजर भोंका जिनने, मानवता को ही छला, > आज बोलते चले हैं वोही, कैसी शांति की भाषा, > > ज़मीन के लालच को धर्म का मुखौटा पहना, > जिन जल्लादों ने छीना भारत माँ का गहना, > आज उन्ही से रखनी होगी, हमको प्रेम की अभिलाषा > वाह रे टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया, क्या खूब है तेरी आशा. > > देखो कैप्टन कालिया, ऐसा हुआ आपका बलिदान, > आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु और क़सब को शायद मिल जाये जीवनदान, > छब्बीस-ग्यारह दोहराने को बेचैन हैं जिनके जेहादी, > दोस्ती का राग सुना रहे, वही कियानी, ज़रदारी और गीलानी, > कौआ चले हंस की चाल, देखो इनकी मीठी भाषा, > हमें दोस्ती का पाठ पढ़ाएंगे, अब सूजा अहमद पाशा. > > हमारे अपने नेताओं ने, देश को भी नहीं बख़्शा > नपुंसक से भी कम पौरुष जिनमें, वो करेंगे देश की रक्षा? > बातचीत के ज़रिये ये, मिटा देंगे सारे भेद > आधा कश्मीर खोने का, इनको ज़रा नहीं खेद, > राष्ट्र को किया लज्जित, दी शर्म-अल-शेख़ में निराशा, > समझे नहीं हम किसने लिखी आख़िर उस दस्तावेज़ की भाषा. > कब तक जयचंदों को जनती रहेगी हे माता! > कब तक तेरे बच्चों को होती रहेगी हताशा, > > आतंकवाद की आग में जब जल रहा है पाकिस्तान, > ऐसी हालत में इनके हृदय में जागा है इंसान, > दिल्ली मुंबई अहमदाबाद ने जब की थीं जानें क़ुर्बान, > मन ही मन खुश होते थे यही पाकी हैवान, > देखो भारतवासियों, रखना इतना ध्यान, > राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ में ही सदा देना तुम कमान, > झूठे धर्म-निरपक्षों से रहना तुम सावधान, > वोट बैंक बनकर कभी मत करना मतदान. > > बोस, पटेल, सावरकर ने, जिस देश को है तराशा, > लूट ना ले उसको फिर, यह झूठी अमन की आशा. > घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, > टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा. > > English Transliteration: > > Aman Ki Aasha > > Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, > Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha, > > Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, manavta ko hi chhala, > aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi shanti ki bhaasha, > > zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta pehna, > jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka gehna, > aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki abhilaasha, > wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai teri Aasha. > > Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka balidaan, > Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad mil jaaye jeevandaan, > Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, bechain hain jinkay jehadi, > hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani > Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki meethi bhaasha, > hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab Sooja Ahmed Pasha. > > Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi baksha, > Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh karenge desh ki raksha? > baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge saare bhed, > aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara nahi khed, > Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, > samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir us dastavez ki bhasha. > Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he maata, > Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi hataasha. > > Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha hai Pakistan, > Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, jaaga hai insaan, > Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, > man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. > Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna dhyan, > Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada dana tum kamaan, > Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna tom saavdhaan, > vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna matdaan. > > Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko hai taraasha, > loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman ki aasha. > Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, > Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha. > > Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi > > ------------------------------ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 17:29:34 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:29:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand that all Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single umbrella of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At the same time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear such comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had chosen the path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The end result is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious fundamentalists and secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are a nation of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems from the freedom of speech point of view. But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. Rakesh From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 17:38:59 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:38:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] What can books do? Message-ID: Here's a very moving blog post by Sandhya Rao who writes for children, and travelled recently to Sri Lanka to interact with a bunch of kids there http://tulikapublishers.blogspot.com/2010/02/what-can-books-do.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TulikaBooks+%28Tulika+Books%29 From blauloretta at yahoo.com Wed Feb 17 18:16:57 2010 From: blauloretta at yahoo.com (Gustaff Harriman Iskandar) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:46:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Radiologia Online Streaming Program | Now Live from Common Room - Bandung, Indonesia Message-ID: <886562.71690.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Radiologia Online Streaming Program || Now Live from Common Room - Bandung, Indonesia >> http://117.103.56.67:8790/ Viva Liberte! From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 17 23:40:29 2010 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:10:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <250415.67555.qm@web112106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Sengupta, I think it is because Islamic terrorism is spread wordwide while Hindu terrorism is in selected few places only in India and that too with objections from a large vocal Hindu community which is perhaps missing in the first case. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? > To: "Bipin" > Cc: "sarai-list" > Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 6:09 PM > The matter of the Samjhauta Express > is still under investigation, and  > no one has been exonerated. So please do not jump to > conclusions  > either way. I object to the terms Hindu Terrorism on the > same grounds  > as I object to the terms Islamic Terrorism, but, I find it > hard to  > understand why some people get so agitated when you > encounter the  > expression 'Hindu Terror', when they accept as natural the > term  > 'Islamic Terror'. > > best > > Shuddha > On 16-Feb-10, at 3:57 PM, Bipin wrote: > > > Yes, well said Mr. Pawan, Mr. Aditya It’s a fashion > now to blame  > > Hindu on any terrorist attack by such > fanatics/fascists. Samjauta  > > express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar > fanatics but they  > > proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset > increasing in  > > India and with such mindset country cannot freed from > terrorism  > > unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress > not showing  > > any such will and do not want to come out from > vote-bank politics  > > of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. > > > > However, Mr. Chidambaram succeed little bit as Home > minister (since  > > he was totally failure as finance minister) and able > to strengthen  > > our intelligence and security compared to his > predecessor. Actually  > > terrorist prime target was Asho Ashram and nearby > hotel but due to  > > tight security prevailing their due to earlier input > given by  > > intelligence agency, they made attack at nearby > situated German  > > bakery. > > > > Thanks > > Bipin > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > [mailto:reader-list- > > bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pawan Durani > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:05 PM > > To: Javed > > Cc: sarai list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? > > > > Good one Javed ! > > > > This group would probably support you well for a well > deserved  > > Subject line. > > Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen" > by using  > > this method. > > > > Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this > group which  > > started > > to doubt Batla House as well. > > > > Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....???? > > > > I am sure , India would have many more partitions..... > inflicted by  > > 1000 > > cuts and the handlers  of "non state actors". > > > > The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light > vigils , while  > > ignoring > > the threats in the name of "sickularism". > > > > And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where > do i get  > > designer > > candles.....!!! > > > > Hurt !!! > > > > Pawan > > > > PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially > the brother  > > sister > > from WB. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed > wrote: > > > >> Pune And After > >> Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or > the Rajneesh > >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial > explosions? Should > >> India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan > or put them on > >> hold? > >> > >> B. Raman > >> http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301 > >> > >> Statements and comments from home minister > P.Chidambaram and  > >> officials > >> indicate that the explosion in the well-known and > well-frequented > >> German Bakery of Pune  around 7 PM on > February 13, 2010, was an  > >> act of > >> terrorism. The case is under investigation by the > local police and > >> possibly too by the National Investigation Agency > (NIA), which came > >> into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in > Mumbai. According to > >> the latest information, nine persons, including > one foreigner,  > >> died in > >> the explosion, which appears to have been not a > sophisticated one, > >> that could have required any special training. The > expertise involved > >> could have been locally acquired. One must control > the reflex to  > >> point > >> an accusing finger at Pakistan. > >> > >> The NIA's first major investigation was into the > travels and > >> activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago > cell of the > >> Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate  >   Hussain Rana, also of > >> Chicago, in India to collect operational > information  required for > >> targeting by the LET. Some of the details > collected by Headley were > >> used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He > had also collected > >> target details about other places of interest > including in New Delhi > >> and Pune. These details had not been used till now > though his > >> interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that > the LET was > >> interested in another terrorist strike--this time > in New Delhi. > >> > >> Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune > was the local Chabad > >> House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre, > which is frequented by > >> Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh > Ashram frequented by > >> the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian > spiritual guru, who used > >> to live in the US and was the mentor of some > sections of Western > >> youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley > were near the German > >> Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on > February 13. Instead, the > >> German Bakery was targeted. > >> > >> Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or > the Rajneesh > >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial > explosions well > >> orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen > in Uttar Pradesh, > >> Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between > November 2007 and > >> September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike > as one saw over > >> Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried > unsuccessfully to blow > >> up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in > Detroit or did it > >> involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What > is the significance > >> of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming > resumption of > >> Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The > dialogue has been under > >> suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have > anything to do with the > >> US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the > Helmand province, > >> which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of > the anger  against > >> the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany > based in Pakistan's > >> tribal belt have been showing since September > last? Should India go > >> ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put > them on hold till a > >> clear picture emerges? > >> > >> These are questions which have to be addressed by > the NIA and the > >> policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes > headway. The Govt. > >> of India should keep an open mind and look into > all possibilities and > >> should avoid over or hasty reactions. > Reconstruction and  > >> investigation > >> of the explosion should have priority and not > retaliation against it. > >> > >> B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet > Secretariat,  > >> Govt. of > >> India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, > Institute For Topical > >> Studies, Chennai. > >> > >> COMMENTS : > >>        HAVE YOUR SAY > >> Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM > >> 21 > >> > >> Maha, > >> > >>>> what points? > >> > >> The points raised in my post: "One must remember > that Pune is the > >> headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti > Samiti. Previous > >> blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in > such a way that the > >> suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a > location that had been > >> visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my > view however it is > >> more likely that the blast was the work of Indian > Mujahideens or > >> Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India > should keep an open  > >> mind > >> and look into all possibilities and should avoid > over or hasty > >> reactions."" > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM > >> 20 > >> > >> Varun, > >> > >>>> we are going to have put up with > mendacity, irrationality and > >> obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems > in general who  > >> want to > >> blame some Hindu group. > >> > >> Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and > obfuscation is from > >> you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India > should keep an open > >> mind and look into all possibilities and should > avoid over or hasty > >> reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is > just beyond you. > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM > >> 19 > >> > >> "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the > point raised." > >> > >> what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write > biased junk > >> propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to > respond them.  > >> There > >> some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots > and these losers are > >> turning this into some kind of national conspiracy > of hindu  > >> terrorism. > >> > >> It is interesting you have easily bought this, but > still not  > >> convinced > >> about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM > >> 18 > >> > >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is > work of Hindu > >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram > Puniyanis, Teestas > >> will be able to link it to them through their > great investigative > >> work. > >> Maha > >> > >> For the next little while, we are going to have > put up with  > >> mendacity, > >> irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and > just from Moslems in > >> general who want to blame some Hindu group for the > latest attack. For > >> some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org > The list of suspects > >> here would include Mossad and the CIA. > >> Varun Shekhar > >> Toronto, CANADA > >> Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM > >> 17 > >> > >> Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some > obscure Hindu  > >> group, I > >> suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb > blast will care to > >> know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored > Islamist was > >> responsible. Have a look at this and I totally > agree with the author, > >> Sandeep. > >> http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/ > >> Rama > >> sydney, Australia > >> Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM > >> 16 > >> > >> "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is > work of Hindu  > >> terrorist" > >> > >> I do not know about that but one thing is sure. > Pakistan had > >> absolutely NO hand in the incident. > >> Ganesan > >> Nj, USA > >> Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM > >> 15 > >> > >> Maha, > >> > >>>> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is > work of Hindu terrorist. > >> > >> It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the > point raised. > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM > >> 14 > >> > >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html" > >> > >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is > work of Hindu > >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram > Puniyanis, Teestas > >> will be able to link it to them through their > great investigative > >> work. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM > >> 13 > >> > >> Maha, > >> > >> Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were > carried out in  > >> such a > >> way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims". > >> > >> "The police had also reportedly found Muslim > taqiyahs (skullcaps) and > >> fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house." > >> > >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM > >> 12 > >> > >> "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were > carried out in such a  > >> way > >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims" > >> > >> I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to > be done by islamic > >> terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis > and other hindutva > >> terrorists. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM > >> 11 > >> > >> " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and > look into all > >> possibilities ...." > >> > >> Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one > must remember that > >> Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and > Janajagruti Samiti. > >> Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were > carried out in such a way > >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking > a location that had > >> been visited by Headley would serve that purpose. > >> > >> In my view however it is more likely that the > blast was the work of > >> Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said, > "The Govt. of India > >> should keep an open mind and look into all > possibilities and should > >> avoid over or hasty reactions." > >> Anwaar > >> Dallas, United States > >> Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM > >> 10 > >> > >> Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using > Malaegaon and Samjhuta to > >> condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly > dangerous.Dont know why > >> are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow > Muslims.Have they not > >> indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts > of terror in the > >> name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into > yourselves and then blame > >> others.If at all your very own are to be blamed. > >> drharun > >> chennai, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM > >> 9 > >> > >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime > activity is to  > >> cast > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and > then help the police > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims" > >> > >> Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of > it) despite Anwar's > >> laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai > in Nov/2008 was > >> really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad > and some local  > >> Hindu > >> group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to > massacre even Jewish > >> visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning > Moslems. > >> > >> This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the > kind of mendacious > >> and irrational people India is up against. > >> Varun Shekhar > >> Toronto, CANADA > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM > >> 8 > >> > >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime > activity is to  > >> cast > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and > then help the police > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims' > >> > >> Nasser > >> > >> Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the > Inidam Mjuhidins .Try > >> to accept the truth. > >> a k ghai > >> mumbai, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM > >> 7 > >> > >> http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm > >> > >> This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi > propaganda to malign our > >> great neighbor. > >> Maha > >> NJ, United States > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM > >> 6 > >> > >> An excellent article > >> > >> http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm > >> Ganesan > >> Nj, USA > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > >> 5 > >> > >> Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime > activity is to cast > >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and > then help the police > >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He > deliberately kept silent on > >> the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and > conscientious police > >> officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits > who were involved in > >> blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others > places in > >> Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to > gain than Pakistan in > >> these blasts. > >> nasar > >> Raleigh, USA > >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM > >> 4 > >> > >> A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As > CNN-IBN reports,  > >> India is > >> not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What > broadmindedness! What > >> diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts. > >> > >> I have a question though. Why were the talks > suspended after 26/11? > >> And India's position then was till the culprits > are brought to > >> justice, there will be no talks as it would not be > meaningful. Did  > >> the > >> govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss > the news that the > >> culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice? > >> > >> What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the > last 10 years has > >> been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of > those attacks has > >> been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who > masterminded the > >> attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan > Singh goes out and > >> makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine > statement recycling > >> the old ones. He did not bother one bit about > this) about bring this > >> bunch of culprits to justice as though the > previous incidents have > >> been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one > question. > >> > >> But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not > care one bit about > >> terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is > what they will  > >> get. > >> In a week, this incident will be forgotten like > the hundreds before, > >> we will be praising the virtues of peace talks > till the next terror > >> attack. > >> > >> And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits > to > >> justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be > continued) > >> Ganesan > >> Nj, USA > >> Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM > >> 3 > >> > >> Dear Mr Raman; > >> > >> This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks > like a deliberate > >> attempt in stalling the proposed talks with > Pakistan? If so whose > >> interests are these rouge elements serving? > >> > >> What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is > Pakistans sentimence  > >> towards > >> the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and > was being forced to > >> accept the offer of talks by us , so they might > want to withdraw or > >> stall the new initiatives? > >> > >> If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the > talks, were there  > >> any > >> 'strings attached'? > >> > >> Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their > approach, whose > >> interests were the talks going to have a negative > impact on? > >> > >> What were to be our gains, which might have had > negative impact on > >> other's designs? > >> > >> The root might be more political and economic, > as; > >> > >> a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive > with billions of > >> dollars involved in the stake. > >> > >> b) An increased understanding (remotely possible) > between India and > >> Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible) > reduction of > >> anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so > India might be able to > >> concentrate more on more important issues? Like > counter measures to > >> balance the threat from further north. > >> > >> c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the > possible  > >> consequences > >> or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation > with Pakistan, also > >> the possible losers if India were to have more > amicable relations  > >> with > >> Pakistan. > >> > >> d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its > future direction, if > >> ever India and Pakistan were to be on more > amicable terms that the > >> present of the past.. Who stand to win and who > stands to lose in this > >> regard? > >> > >> e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which > seems to be scripted > >> to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently > attemting to ignite  > >> some > >> sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the > heart of  > >> foreigners , > >> especially the western world? If so whose interets > would it serve? > >> > >> f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional > actors to divert > >> attention from the recent MNIK controversy? > >> > >> If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks > with Pakistan, in > >> the long term or short term, my call is our > country should pursue the > >> talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever. > >> > >> JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm > >> JJohn > >> Kottayam, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM > >> 2 > >> > >> The timing has surely got to do with the entire > focus of the > >> Maharashtra government getting concentrated > firstly on Rahul Gandhi's > >> Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting > involved in  > >> protection > >> to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork > of local Jihadis. > >> S.S.Nagaraj > >> Bangalore, India > >> Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM > >> 1 > >> > >> It is time india realised that it is a big market > and people want > >> access to that. americans are practically beggars > including the  > >> entire > >> west. China also wants access to indian Market. > >> > >> Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who > wants to sell goods > >> to India but at the same time works against our > interest. There is > >> huge list of countries which can be put in that > list. One such  > >> measure > >> and all of them will fall in line. > >> > >> Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen > but Dubai keeps on > >> propping up Pakistani "interests". One such > measure and Dubai will > >> fall in line. > >> vibhaas, Doha > >> vibhaas > >> Doha, qatar > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with  > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with  > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 23:43:16 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:43:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kalpana Sharma's article on girls dropping out of school for lack of proper toilets Message-ID: >From http://www.indiatogether.org/2010/feb/ksh-educate.htm Educating India The Annual Status of Education Report, 2009 points out yet again that what stands between rural girls and a good education is often basic facilities like transport and proper toilets, writes Kalpana Sharma. To read the entire article, check http://www.indiatogether.org/2010/feb/ksh-educate.htm From mitoo at sarai.net Wed Feb 17 18:11:48 2010 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:11:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] The Image of the City Message-ID: <4B7BE40C.8090004@sarai.net> The *Delhi Urban Platform* invites you for its Opening session: *The Image of the City* *CSDS library 29 Rajpur Road Civil Lines 19th February 2010 4:00 P.M. Ravi Sundaram Narayani Gupta Amita Baviskar AGK Menon Awadhendra Sharan Gautam Bhan* The inaugural event of the *Delhi Urban Platform* is an open discussion on the city of Delhi, and possible future conversations. The Delhi Platform is a networked constellation of events and discussions on various themes that affect the city of Delhi. The Platform is a collaborative process involving diverse institutions and individuals, who have a stake in the futures of the city. The Platform was begun as a response to the lack of a critical public discussion on Delhi's urbanity and urban life. Tracing its history back almost a millennia, standing on the ruins of older and new empires, Delhi's urban heritage is unmatched in the subcontinent. Yet Delhi's 20th century has been one where the city has increasingly lost its urban imagination. This is a process that some trace back to the defeat of 1857, the slow marginalization of the Old city and ultimately, the trauma of Partition in 1947. Delhi often appeares as a curious paradox - a historic city, but without a consciousness of itself, without an identity. In the last decade, however, Delhi's residents have become acutely aware of the crises of the city's urbanism. Urban debates are now the flesh of Delhi's life, the headlines to our morning coffee. We have witnessed public quarrels over infrastructure, pollution, speeding buses, displacement of the poor, heritage, sealing, the list goes on... An urban discourse has emerged, as witnessed in rapid interest in reporting on the city in papers and media, and scores of online platforms on Delhi. This public debate is raw, confused, provocative, often half-baked - but it is here to stay. The coming Commonwealth Games has put spotlight on all the city's problems, critical engagement with our present is more urgent than ever. Delhi deserves better. It is important to create new sites of critical, independent urban discourse -- that can provide open platforms on all themes affecting the city. The Delhi Platform is thus intended as an open forum that travels to different parts of the city in the coming months, leading up to the Commonwealth Games and beyond the event. The platform is a collaboration between different institutions and individuals interested in Delhi's urbanism. The platforms will involve people from all walks of life: scholars, practitioners, activists, writers, artists, ordinary citizens in a critical conversation about Delhi's urban futures. The Platform website is under construction, and will be live by the end of this week. Visit: www.delhiurbanplatform.org The *Delhi Urban Platform* is on *Facebook* at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=304722899371&ref=mf -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 10:38:09 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested References: Message-ID: Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this old problem. Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which Kashmiris" was not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri nationality, or unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just canceling the noise. JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the brutal Mujahaddins, in their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, moved to J&K. From then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their homes. Every dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women were told to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces was their fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred and if that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being vocal. Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they Kashmiris? But they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. Aren't they Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are Kashmiris in POK free? Those who are part of National conference or PDP, aren't they Kashmiris? Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the question still remains which Kashmiris? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junaid" To: "Tara Prakash" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested Dear Tara, I quote you: "But isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? Which Kashmiris?" End. I absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two follow-up questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones that will lead us to specifics. If anything they will further push us into a metaphysics of denial. I assume you know enough about Kashmir and are aware that there is no shortage of solutions. Indian government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a political issue, and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that remains is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The "right solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free and fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives for Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made it clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be forced down the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's legitimacy and authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows that is, can go to "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the problem). The first step would be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of their problem, that is allow them to find the right solution with a guarantee that it will be accepted. The second question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we really keep telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By asking this question, are you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? If you believe that "the people" have to elect their representatives, how can you in the same breath deny the existence of those same people? I guess the first "concrete suggestions" would be the dismantling of the draconian military and police apparatus from Kashmir: i.e. 1. remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of military and police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA and Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies involved in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. Allow Kashmiris to peacefully express their dissent (remove restrictions on free speech and assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the stranglehold that the security agencies have over the everyday life of people through technics of surveillance and proliferation of threats. Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next ones. At least it will show that the Indian government is sincere in its efforts to solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to tire people out. Junaid On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash wrote: > "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to be solved, with the full > involvement of Kashmiris." > Agreed. But isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > Kashmiris? A democratic exercise requires people to elect their > representatives who can talk on their behalf. But those who are chosen, > are > found to be going "to any extent to please their masters in Delhi" > I don't think the Indian govt or UN can talk to every Kashmiri on this > earth > for the resolution of the problem. > It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions towards > resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate > people, > so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a climate > towards > resolution of the issue. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junaid" > To: ; "Junaid" > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > >> Dozens of young boys have been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >> laws over the last few weeks. The charges that have been filed against >> them range from "waging war against the state" to defiling "state >> honor". In recent months Indian military and police commanders have >> described protests in Kashmir as "agitational terrorism" and >> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify violent clampdown on >> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 people, mostly >> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured by >> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >> thousands of people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >> permanent physical disabilities. The police authorities have banned >> any peaceful assembly of people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >> other towns have reported police brutalities. Even the villages are >> not being spared. Only yesterday, mourning villagers were attacked by >> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most of the injuries were inflicted >> above the waist showing an intention to kill. >> >> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, but >> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel dimension. >> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline and >> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >> deceive its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >> in Azad Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >> has been there for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >> back every few years to earn brownie points. >> >> National Conference government which has proved its inability to >> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't even remove >> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has sought to >> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent to >> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >> Kashmir police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >> perhaps in a bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >> army's help. >> >> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >> from the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >> time, the conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >> with Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >> inhuman tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >> stop human rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >> Kashmir is a political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >> involvement of Kashmiris. >> _____________________ >> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K gov; >> >> Riyaz Wani >> >> >> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 >> >> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >> ‘waging war against the state’, a crime punishable with death or life >> in jail. >> >> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against eight >> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >> 121 of CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >> Department told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >> PSAs against “20 more such youths”. >> >> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court on Monday. Police >> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon granted by Judge >> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told the court, >> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and security >> forces. >> >> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said the youths were held >> in random raids across the city and were not involved in >> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of CrPC. >> >> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety Act >> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >> protests over the death of two women in Shopian. >> >> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said he was not in a position to give “the >> exact number of youths” booked under PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. “I am >> out of station and don’t have the exact number,” Ahmad told The Indian >> Express. >> Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed >> >> _____________ >> Police say waging war against country, judge not impressed >> >> Peerzada Ashiq >> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >> >> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows of chairs. “Yes madam. >> Present madam”, replied a boy standing among 16 jostled youth with red >> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >> >> This is no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >> in downtown Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >> police presented them before the court on Monday for extending their >> police remand. But after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >> boys to judicial remand for 15 days. >> >> “How did you know all the names of the arrested youth in advance?” >> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. “Through >> reliable sources,” replied the investigation officer. >> >> “How is it possible? I don’t know anyone of these boys. Who are these >> reliable sources?” asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >> officer, looking at the floor, said: “They are active stone throwers, >> and involved for the last five years.” >> >> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when Zahid, one of the >> accused, interjected saying, “This is for the first time we are in the >> lock up,” adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, who was on >> the bike when the police arrested him. >> >> The boy, wearing a pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >> joined by others in the room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >> requesting them to wipe tears and be mum. “Don’t worry justice will be >> done,” said Joo adding since Chief Minister Omar Abdullah told the >> media we are launching a crackdown against stone-pelters, the police >> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >> >> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >> heavy chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >> the state and insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >> life imprisonment. The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >> and were presented before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >> >> Lawyer Joo contested that the police cannot impose the waging a war >> against the nation unless a magistrate has done an investigation in a >> case and the police cannot do it on their own. >> >> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a row, their >> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their innocence: >> “We were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and arrested >> us,” they said. >> >> While a policeman shouted back: “They have snatched our peace.” >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From aliens at dataone.in Thu Feb 18 12:37:53 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:37:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 5.6 / 5.0] RE: Body scanning violation of Sharia In-Reply-To: References: <000401caaef4$3d9923a0$b8cb6ae0$@in> <000301caaf9c$b73fc850$25bf58f0$@in> Message-ID: <001501cab069$1838c9f0$48aa5dd0$@in> Dear Javed/Junaid, Separatists does not want to fight election, since they were knowing they will be defeated. Since bearing few (they are minor but with violence they seems bigger, of course with the help Pakistan and terrorist groups situated their) most of them are willing to be with India. Recent 60% voting proved this. Those 40% who have not voted, I am sure at least 20% must be in the favor to remain with India only. So, if we add 15 and not 20 then also about 75% of the opinion to remain with India. If you add Kashmiri pandit this will be much more. I am giving you data of Kashmiri pandit massacre carried earlier to throw them out from Kashmir as under. Details of Kashmiri pandit murder. DATE DETAILS NO. OF DEATHS 21/03/1997 Sangrampora massacre 7 15/06/1997 Udhampur massacre 3 26/01/1998 Vandhana massacre 23 05/02/2000 Anantnag massacre 2 13/07/2002 Kasimnagar massacre 24 23/03/2003 Nandimarg massacre 25 TOTAL 84 After this massacre, much large numbers of pandit left Kashmir gradually their home land with painful mind. We are engaged in dialogue since long and started business, communication, train/bus route in good faith, what happened? Nothing, terrorist attack occurred frequently. Since, Pak wants ultimate solution as Kashmir back and this is what they want as final solution. What's your opinion? Is it possible to hand over entire J&K? not at all. This is what biggest hindrance to carry out the dialogue. Since almost 15 years we are conducting dialogue in good faith even after parliament attack also we initiated dialogue after some time. We have bow down after terrorists attack many times earlier. This time also as usual this is going to happen only. Its more than enough now and time to take some tough stand. Mr. Junaid your suggestion on Kashmir is irrelevant. (1) To remove military and police force. To remove local police force from any part of the world if you ask then no one will agree. Since looking to human nature, crime less society is not possible. At the border of the nation, every country puts their military watch and nothing wrong in it. Why military required to deploy at earlier stage, when infiltration and terrorism started. Is pak govt. assure to stop infiltration and show will and act accordingly for infiltration from their side for at least even 6 months then one can remove military fully. To put military in the civilian area is costly affair and nobody wants to put it willingly. Did find it in any part of India except few where terrorist and maoist attack is possible. (2) "Remove draconian law" but draconian law is for draconian people like terrorist who kill innocent people. "Security agencies involved in HR abuses", HR for whom terrorist? Who kill human only for no reason. I find pity for your thought. (3) Who will decide that they are political prisoner? Please note that congress does not show that will to fight terrorism and taking soft stand towards terrorism comparatively. So, there is no question to keep them in prison without reason in congress rule. (4) Is there any law to prevent Kashmiri to express their views peacefully? I don't think so. (5) I agree your fifth point can be possible, if it is there. But, if terrorism and infiltration stops, it will not require any more. So, the root is terrorism and infiltration Mr. junaid. Control this evil, everything will be settled. Actually it's time now for some tough stand without bowing down from international pressure. May be not this time, but in near future it is going to happen. Since pak never behaves like a gentle country. However, pak is also suffering now with partial terrorism. (Meri billi muzko maun). If pak stop sponsoring terror/infiltration in India then she will get love of whole Indian people and continent. In that case though both of them remain separate country, but will become super power even beating US/China. In that case pak will become self sufficient without US aid. Let us pray to fulfill this dream. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:01 PM To: Bipin; sarai list Subject: Re: [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 5.6 / 5.0] RE: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia Dear Bipin I posted so many links since you mentioned that the Deoband never issues fatwas against terrorism. And yes, in most cases I don't agree with their fatwas (especially those against liberal issues such as Tasleema) and I also believe that their fatwas against terrorism will have very little or almost no affect on the actual situation. Even many Pakistani madrasas issue out general fatwas against terrorism all the time. I doubt if these madrasas or their appeals can reduce terrorism today. Its a complex problem which has been much worsened by the west's "war against terrorism". The only way out is to have a dialogue with the people who are involved in terrorism. Bring them to the table and let us hear what they have to say. There is no other solution. Javed On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Bipin wrote: > Dear Javed, > > Thanks for your reply and mentioning so many links against fatwa. Glad to > know that you are not endorsing their fatwa. But, with your posting of fatwa > details, you have not mentioned your views or comments and so understood > that you agreed to it. > > All the links of fatwa you have posted came after 26/11 attack and that too > they condemned terrorism/violence of any kind in general, but they have not > issued fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group specifically. This is > what actually required today to pressurize them. They are issuing fatwa > specifically in case of Taslima Nasrin and Salman Rushdi, where they have > not at all involved in any kind of violence but expressing their views in > book. Even congress could not give shelter to Taslima fearing to lose their > Muslim votes. Taslima thought that she will get shelter in secular country > like India, but she proved wrong and so our secularism is also proved wrong. > Our secularism relates to minority only. This is height of vote bank > politics and minor appeasement. I am sorry to write such hard language, but > truth is always bitter and hard. > > Please note that I am not against any community/minority, but where we stay, > we have to faithful with our country with full heart. Whoever, trying to > harm the country must be condemned with full-heart, whoever it may be > majority or minority. The organization like Deoband and others should > pressurize their few brothers to stop support to outside terrorists group, > may be by way of sleeper cell or active cell, since it's much more chances > that they will listen and believe them. If they does this much then also > terrorism can be controlled heavily in India and country will be highly > oblige/respect them. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:23 PM > To: Bipin > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia > > Dear Bipin > Although I am neither their official (or unofficial) spokesperson nor > do I endorse their fatwas, but below is a list of links where you can > find fatwas issued by the Deoband seminary AGAINST TERRORISM (not that > these make any difference). Kindly also note that a fatwa is not an > order or a decree, nor it is legally binding on any one. Literally, > fatwa means an opinion. But the word has been made out to be something > horrible - like a missile issued by a Ayatollah Khomieni. > > Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4045862.ece > > Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-seminary-issues-fatwa-ag > ainst-terrorism-838162.html > > Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terror > http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33848320080601 > > Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism > http://www.idsa.in/TWIR/6_1_2008_DarulUloom > > Deoband declaration against terrorism > http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=1874 > > YouTube - Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_AoEUwFZA > > Islamic body issues fatwa against terrorism > http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?576402 > > Punjab chief mufti issues fatwa against terrorism > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-chief-mufti-issues-fatwa-aga > inst-terrorism/articleshow/1820782.cms > > Ulema, Muftis ratify fatwa against terrorism > http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959951100.htm > > 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism > http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/6000-muslim-clerics-endorse-fatwa.html > > Syed Soharwardy's fatwa against terrorism > http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=2475287 > > Imams issue fatwa against terrorism > http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-again > st-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/ > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Bipin wrote: > >> We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization issuing fatwa against > terrorists or terrorists group, why? >> >> Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody wants to do it > willingly, but terrorist activity forced to do the same. So, instead of > giving fatwa against this, Deoband must control the terrorists and do > something to stop the terrorism. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Javed >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM >> To: sarai list >> Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia >> >> Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of >> the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as >> the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will >> condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security >> measure. >> >> ----- >> Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom >> Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST >> > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4870 (20100216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4872 (20100216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 12:44:06 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:44:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 and included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, Ladakh, Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about solutions then you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people and not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > From: TaraPrakash > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 > To: Junaid > Cc: > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this old > problem. Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which > Kashmiris" was not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri > nationality, or unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just > canceling the noise. JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the > brutal Mujahaddins, in their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, > moved to J&K. From then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their > homes. Every dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women > were told to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces > was their fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred > and if that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being > vocal. Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they > Kashmiris? But they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. > Aren't they Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are > Kashmiris in POK free? Those who are part of National conference or PDP, > aren't they Kashmiris? Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the > question still remains which Kashmiris? ----- Original Message ----- From: > "Junaid" To: "Tara Prakash" Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM Subject: Re: > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested Dear Tara, I quote you: "But > isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? Which Kashmiris?" End. I > absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two follow-up > questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones that will lead us to > specifics. If anything they will further push us into a metaphysics of denial. > I assume you know enough about Kashmir and are aware that there is no shortage > of solutions. Indian government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a > political issue, and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that > remains is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The > "right solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free > and fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives > for Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made it > clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be forced down > the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's legitimacy and > authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows that is, can go to > "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the problem). The first step would > be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of their problem, that is allow them to > find the right solution with a guarantee that it will be accepted. The second > question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we really keep > telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By asking this question, are > you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? If you believe that "the people" > have to elect their representatives, how can you in the same breath deny the > existence of those same people? I guess the first "concrete suggestions" > would be the dismantling of the draconian military and police apparatus from > Kashmir: i.e. 1. remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of > military and police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA > and Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies involved > in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. Allow Kashmiris to > peacefully express their dissent (remove restrictions on free speech and > assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the stranglehold that the security agencies > have over the everyday life of people through technics of surveillance and > proliferation of threats. Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next > ones. At least it will show that the Indian government is sincere in its > efforts to solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to > tire people out. Junaid On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash > wrote: > "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to > be solved, with the full > involvement of Kashmiris." > Agreed. But isn't it > time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > Kashmiris? A democratic > exercise requires people to elect their > representatives who can talk on > their behalf. But those who are chosen, > are > found to be going "to any > extent to please their masters in Delhi" > I don't think the Indian govt or UN > can talk to every Kashmiri on this > earth > for the resolution of the > problem. > It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions > towards > resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate > > people, > so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a > climate > towards > resolution of the issue. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Junaid" > To: ; "Junaid" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > Subject: > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > >> Dozens of young boys have > been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >> laws over the last few weeks. > The charges that have been filed against >> them range from "waging war > against the state" to defiling "state >> honor". In recent months Indian > military and police commanders have >> described protests in Kashmir as > "agitational terrorism" and >> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify > violent clampdown on >> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 > people, mostly >> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured > by >> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >> > number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >> thousands of > people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >> permanent physical > disabilities. The police authorities have banned >> any peaceful assembly of > people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >> other towns have reported > police brutalities. Even the villages are >> not being spared. Only yesterday, > mourning villagers were attacked by >> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South > Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most > of the injuries were inflicted >> above the waist showing an intention to > kill. >> >> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, > but >> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel > dimension. >> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline > and >> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >> > state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >> deceive > its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >> in Azad > Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >> has been there > for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >> back every few years > to earn brownie points. >> >> National Conference government which has proved > its inability to >> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't > even remove >> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has > sought to >> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent > to >> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >> > leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >> > police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >> Kashmir > police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >> perhaps in a > bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >> army's help. >> >> > Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >> from > the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >> time, the > conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >> with > Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >> inhuman > tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >> stop human > rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >> Kashmir is a > political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >> involvement of > Kashmiris. >> _____________________ >> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K > gov; >> >> Riyaz Wani >> >> >> > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 > >> >> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >> > Œwaging war against the state¹, a crime punishable with death or life >> in > jail. >> >> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against > eight >> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >> > while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >> 121 of > CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >> Department > told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >> PSAs against ³20 > more such youths². >> >> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court > on Monday. Police >> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon > granted by Judge >> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told > the court, >> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and > security >> forces. >> >> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said > the youths were held >> in random raids across the city and were not involved > in >> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of > CrPC. >> >> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety > Act >> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >> > booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >> > shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >> protests > over the death of two women in Shopian. >> >> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said > he was not in a position to give ³the >> exact number of youths² booked under > PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. ³I am >> out of station and don¹t have the exact > number,² Ahmad told The Indian >> Express. >> Police say waging war against > country, judge not impressed >> >> _____________ >> Police say waging war > against country, judge not impressed >> >> Peerzada Ashiq >> > peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >> >> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted > Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows > of chairs. ³Yes madam. >> Present madam², replied a boy standing among 16 > jostled youth with red >> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >> >> This is > no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >> in downtown > Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >> police presented > them before the court on Monday for extending their >> police remand. But > after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >> boys to judicial remand > for 15 days. >> >> ³How did you know all the names of the arrested youth in > advance?² >> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. > ³Through >> reliable sources,² replied the investigation officer. >> >> ³How > is it possible? I don¹t know anyone of these boys. Who are these >> reliable > sources?² asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >> officer, looking > at the floor, said: ³They are active stone throwers, >> and involved for the > last five years.² >> >> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when > Zahid, one of the >> accused, interjected saying, ³This is for the first time > we are in the >> lock up,² adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, > who was on >> the bike when the police arrested him. >> >> The boy, wearing a > pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >> joined by others in the > room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >> requesting them to wipe tears > and be mum. ³Don¹t worry justice will be >> done,² said Joo adding since Chief > Minister Omar Abdullah told the >> media we are launching a crackdown against > stone-pelters, the police >> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >> >> > The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >> heavy > chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >> the state and > insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >> life imprisonment. > The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >> and were presented > before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >> >> Lawyer Joo contested > that the police cannot impose the waging a war >> against the nation unless a > magistrate has done an investigation in a >> case and the police cannot do it > on their own. >> >> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a > row, their >> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their > innocence: >> ³We were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and > arrested >> us,² they said. >> >> While a policeman shouted back: ³They have > snatched our peace.² >> _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & > Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > ______________________ > ___________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Feb 18 11:04:35 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:04:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> Dear Rakesh, Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste for trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all disputing the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we should read such things patiently. I always do. But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the corresponding obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. That is the responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. I am always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism is not defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. best Shuddha On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand > that all > Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single > umbrella > of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At > the same > time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear > such > comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had > chosen the > path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The > end result > is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious > fundamentalists and > secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are > a nation > of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems > from the > freedom of speech point of view. > > But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 13:30:36 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:30:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take criticism yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we move ahead ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let them enjoy and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one opinion flow in the network. regards Aditya Raj Kaul On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Rakesh, > > Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste for > trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all disputing > the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we should > read such things patiently. I always do. > > But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the corresponding > obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. That is the > responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. I am > always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism is not > defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. > > best > > Shuddha > > > On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand that > all > Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single umbrella > of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At the same > time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear such > comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had chosen > the > path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The end result > is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious fundamentalists > and > secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are a > nation > of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems from the > freedom of speech point of view. > > But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 13:52:47 2010 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:22:47 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Looking for Art Eco System Stats/Facts/Trivia Message-ID: Looking for websites/blogs/reports to look up artworld fact/trivia: especially economic trends, financial statistics, random facts; especially but not only related to art fairs. For a quick one-off project. Email me please, thanks. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 18 13:57:58 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:27:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) In-Reply-To: <341380d01002170313qcc5ce5fp708aea4c31ac21aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <666723.53982.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam   Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided.   "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting moral or mental injury.  The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers in a ring.   Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective.   You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'.     Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM The report in the beginning says: "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, official sources said today. Overpower: o·ver·pow·er  (vr-pour) tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. And then we have: "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home unauthorisedly." unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental injury It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to believe? -Thanks Anupam On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI > Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* > > *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a > minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south > Kashmi > > A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in > Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, > official sources said today. > > They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two SLRs -- > along with some ammunition. > > Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they > said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home > unauthorisedly. > > Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and a > massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted > weapons, the sources said. > > "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental > inquiry ordered," the sources said. > > This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. > > The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for > protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kalakamra at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 14:25:12 2010 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:25:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Looking for Art Eco System Stats/Facts/Trivia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33eee40c1002180055i6e148cacu47f8687ff80a6e34@mail.gmail.com> Dear Naeeem, Have a look at http://www.arttactic.com/ and India Seminars issue on the art market, October 2007. ( http://www.india-seminar.com/ ) and this is trivial but fun, took place during arco madrid in 2007. there should be a download somewhere out there. http://www.e-flux.com/shows/view/5235 warmly, shaina On 18 February 2010 13:52, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > Looking for websites/blogs/reports to look up artworld fact/trivia: > especially economic trends, financial statistics, random facts; > especially but not only related to art fairs. > > For a quick one-off project. > > Email me please, thanks. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- camputer.org pad.ma chitrakarkhana.net From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 15:00:57 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:00:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important news that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you cannot say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am sorry I cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or anyone posts it on this list. -Anupam On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Friends > > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of 'value' > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. > > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take criticism > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. > > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we move ahead > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. > > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let them enjoy > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one opinion flow > in the network. > > regards > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > >> Dear Rakesh, >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste for >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all >> disputing >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we should >> read such things patiently. I always do. >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the corresponding >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. That is the >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. I am >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism is not >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. >> >> best >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand that >> all >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single >> umbrella >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At the same >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear such >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had chosen >> the >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The end >> result >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious fundamentalists >> and >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are a >> nation >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems from >> the >> freedom of speech point of view. >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. >> >> Rakesh >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Writer > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 18 15:01:34 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:31:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Why is there so much bullshit? Message-ID: <522692.88915.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> >From the book "On Bullshit" by Harry G Frankfurt:   "Why is there so much bullshit?"   Why is there so much bullshit? Of course it is impossible to be sure that there is relatively more nowadays than at other times. There is more communication of all kinds in our time than ever before, but the proportion that is bullshit may not have increased. Without assuming that the incidence of bullshit is actually greater now, I will mention a few considerations that help to account for the fact that it is currently so great.   Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic exceed his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic. This discrepancy is common in public life, where people are frequently impelled — whether by their own propensities or by the demands of others — to speak extensively about matters of which they are to some degree ignorant. Closely related instances arise from the widespread conviction that it is the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to have opinions about everything, or at least  everything  that pertains to the conduct of his country’s affairs. The lack of any significant connection between a person’s opinions and his apprehension of reality will be even more severe, needless to say, for someone who believes it is his responsibility, as a conscientious moral agent, to evaluate events and conditions in all parts of the world.   The contemporary proliferation of bullshit also has deeper sources, in various forms of skepticism which deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality, and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are. These “antirealist” doctrines undermine confidence in the value of disinterested efforts to determine what is true and what is false, and even in the intelligibility of the notion of objective inquiry. One response to this loss of confidence has been a retreat from the discipline required by dedication to the ideal of correctness to a quite different sort of discipline, which is imposed by pursuit of an alternative ideal of sincerity. Rather than seeking primarily to arrive at accurate representations of a common world, the individual turns toward trying to provide honest representations of himself. Convinced that reality has no inherent nature, which he might hope to identify as the truth about things, he devotes himself to being true to his own nature. It is as though he decides that since it makes no sense to try to be true to the facts, he must therefore instead try to be true to himself.   But it is preposterous to imagine that we ourselves are determinate, and hence susceptible both to correct and to incorrect descriptions, while supposing that the ascription of determinacy to anything else has been exposed as a mistake. As conscious beings, we exist only in response to other things, and we cannot know ourselves at all without knowing them. Moreover, there is nothing in theory, and certainly nothing in experience, to support the extraordinary judgment that it is the truth about himself that is the easiest for a person to know. Facts about ourselves are not peculiarly solid and resistant to skeptical dissolution. Our natures are, indeed, elusively insubstantial — notoriously less stable and less inherent than the natures of other things. And insofar as this is the case, sincerity itself is bullshit.   – Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit http://thefloatinglibrary.com/2009/09/04/why-is-there-so-much-bullshit/   http://www.frankfurt.com.au/frankfurt-articles/2005/6/4/frankly-its-bullshit/   http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bullshit-Harry-G-Frankfurt/dp/0691122946         From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 15:51:19 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:51:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) In-Reply-To: <666723.53982.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <341380d01002170313qcc5ce5fp708aea4c31ac21aa@mail.gmail.com> <666723.53982.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002180221j2e268691sf073cbbefbff5f5a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which completely changes the context in which the news report was written. However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of force and that too physical: The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. Similarly, you could follow this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot to find the meaning of the word 'loot'. Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south Kashmir." A word that has been used to describe what you think was an overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the meaning of the word 'storm': http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' was used. The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is: 4.25 KG (9.4 LB) empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg (8.8–9.8 lb). Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we do not what this word means, I have heard these words used consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen should start in this case. I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. -Anupam On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam > > Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict > yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. > > "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting > moral or mental injury.  The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers in > a ring. > > Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make helpless > or ineffective. > > You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. > > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was > for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) > To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM > > > The report in the beginning says: > > "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora > in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the > policemen, official sources said today. > > Overpower: o·ver·pow·er  (vr-pour) > tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers > 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. > 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. > 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. > > And then we have: > > "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, > they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly > gone home unauthorisedly." > > unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental > injury > > It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not > well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the > reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to > believe? > > -Thanks > Anupam > > On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >> >> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >> Kashmi >> >> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in >> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >> official sources said today. >> >> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two SLRs >> -- >> along with some ammunition. >> >> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they >> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home >> unauthorisedly. >> >> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and a >> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >> weapons, the sources said. >> >> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental >> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >> >> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. >> >> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 16:01:07 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:01:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that answer your questions? I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't want it to be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me who shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! I think someone already has clarified your misconception or 'contradiction' as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain from spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in useless discussion. thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important news > that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and > pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to > confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you cannot > say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else on > the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue > someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am sorry I > cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or > anyone posts it on this list. > > -Anupam > > On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Dear Friends > > > > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of > 'value' > > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore > and > > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. > > > > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take criticism > > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. > > > > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we move > ahead > > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it > > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. > > > > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let them > enjoy > > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one opinion > flow > > in the network. > > > > regards > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Rakesh, > >> > >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste for > >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all > >> disputing > >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we > should > >> read such things patiently. I always do. > >> > >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the corresponding > >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. That is > the > >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. I am > >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism is not > >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. > >> > >> best > >> > >> Shuddha > >> > >> > >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> > >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand that > >> all > >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single > >> umbrella > >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At the > same > >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear such > >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had chosen > >> the > >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The end > >> result > >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious fundamentalists > >> and > >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are a > >> nation > >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems from > >> the > >> freedom of speech point of view. > >> > >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. > >> > >> Rakesh > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> Raqs Media Collective > >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> www.sarai.net > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Writer > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 16:13:39 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:13:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as well, I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very helpful. And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in my reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your reply Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a lot about the kind of news coming out of the valley. Thanks Anupam On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam, > > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that answer your > questions? > > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't want it to > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me who > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! > > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or 'contradiction' > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. > > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain from > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in useless > discussion. > > thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > >> Dear Aditya, >> >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important news >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you cannot >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else on >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am sorry I >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or >> anyone posts it on this list. >> >> -Anupam >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > Dear Friends >> > >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of >> 'value' >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore >> and >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. >> > >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take criticism >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. >> > >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we move >> ahead >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. >> > >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let them >> enjoy >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one opinion >> flow >> > in the network. >> > >> > regards >> > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Rakesh, >> >> >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste for >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all >> >> disputing >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we >> should >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. >> >> >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the >> >> corresponding >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. That is >> the >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. I am >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism is >> >> not >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. >> >> >> >> best >> >> >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand >> >> that >> >> all >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single >> >> umbrella >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At the >> same >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear such >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had >> >> chosen >> >> the >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The end >> >> result >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious >> >> fundamentalists >> >> and >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are a >> >> nation >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems from >> >> the >> >> freedom of speech point of view. >> >> >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. >> >> >> >> Rakesh >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >> Raqs Media Collective >> >> shuddha at sarai.net >> >> www.sarai.net >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > Freelance Writer >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Writer > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 16:20:49 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:20:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) In-Reply-To: <341380d01002180221j2e268691sf073cbbefbff5f5a@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d01002170313qcc5ce5fp708aea4c31ac21aa@mail.gmail.com> <666723.53982.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <341380d01002180221j2e268691sf073cbbefbff5f5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002180250l4aa2d313vf375ad650da936bd@mail.gmail.com> Here's IANS take published in Hindustan Times: A group of heavily armed separatist ultras attacked a police post in south Kashmir's Tral town and fled with arms and ammunition after tying up the guards, police said Wednesday. A senior police officer said that Tuesday night ultras overpowered the five policemen manning the post and tied them up inside the camp. The policemen who were taken by surprise couldn't retaliate and militants before fleeing took away three INSAS rifles, two self-loading rifles, five magazines and 70 bullets. The post in the Medura village near Tral town, 45 km from Srinagar, had been set up for the security of the minority Pandit community. Sources said three families of the Pandit community who didn't migrate to Jammu continue to live in Medura village along with their Muslim neighbours. State government has set up police posts for the protection of the minority community members living in various villages across Kashmir after series of attacks on Pandit families in the early 1990s. On 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Kshmendra, > > I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I > had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. > I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which > completely changes the context in which the news report was written. > However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of > force and that too physical: > > The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." > > at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack > > Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you > pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. > Similarly, you could follow this link: > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot to find the meaning of > the word 'loot'. > > Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up > for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in > Pulwama district of south Kashmir." > > A word that has been used to describe what you think was an > overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the > meaning of the word 'storm': > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' > was used. > > The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed > to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which > is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that > happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with > two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or > even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when > written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended > from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is: 4.25 KG (9.4 LB) > empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg > (8.8–9.8 lb). > > Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example > of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were > "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we > do not what this word means, I have heard these words used > consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the > media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to > really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. > > Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these > terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this > policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these > policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their > presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level > inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen > should start in this case. > > I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the > same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in > highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. > > -Anupam > > On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> Dear Anupam >> >> Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict >> yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. >> >> "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting >> moral or mental injury.  The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers >> in >> a ring. >> >> Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make >> helpless >> or ineffective. >> >> You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. >> >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> >> From: anupam chakravartty >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >> was >> for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >> To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM >> >> >> The report in the beginning says: >> >> "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora >> in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the >> policemen, official sources said today. >> >> Overpower: o·ver·pow·er  (vr-pour) >> tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers >> 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. >> 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. >> 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. >> >> And then we have: >> >> "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, >> they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly >> gone home unauthorisedly." >> >> unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental >> injury >> >> It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not >> well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the >> reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to >> believe? >> >> -Thanks >> Anupam >> >> On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >>> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >>> >>> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >>> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >>> Kashmi >>> >>> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in >>> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >>> official sources said today. >>> >>> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two >>> SLRs >>> -- >>> along with some ammunition. >>> >>> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they >>> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone >>> home >>> unauthorisedly. >>> >>> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and >>> a >>> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >>> weapons, the sources said. >>> >>> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental >>> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >>> >>> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. >>> >>> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >>> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 16:21:51 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:21:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam The first two lines of your recent e-mail on the list read as follows - * "I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I had a software by which I could read out the news report in question."* I didn't find it worth enough to read the e-mail further. The above lines unfortunately are applicable on your good self. I share with you the link - http://www.ptinews.com/news/521987_Militants-attack-cop-post-near-Srinagar--loot-weapons I don't doubt the news report. So I rest my case. thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI > would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing > story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as well, > I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could > kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very helpful. > > And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in my > reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your reply > Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a lot > about the kind of news coming out of the valley. > > Thanks > Anupam > > On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam, > > > > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that answer > your > > questions? > > > > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't want it > to > > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me who > > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! > > > > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or > 'contradiction' > > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. > > > > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain from > > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in useless > > discussion. > > > > thanks > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Aditya, > >> > >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important news > >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and > >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to > >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you cannot > >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else on > >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue > >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am sorry I > >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or > >> anyone posts it on this list. > >> > >> -Anupam > >> > >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> > Dear Friends > >> > > >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of > >> 'value' > >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to > ignore > >> and > >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. > >> > > >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take criticism > >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. > >> > > >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we move > >> ahead > >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it > >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. > >> > > >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let them > >> enjoy > >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one opinion > >> flow > >> > in the network. > >> > > >> > regards > >> > > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Rakesh, > >> >> > >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste > for > >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all > >> >> disputing > >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we > >> should > >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. > >> >> > >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the > >> >> corresponding > >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. That > is > >> the > >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. I > am > >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism is > >> >> not > >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. > >> >> > >> >> best > >> >> > >> >> Shuddha > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> >> > >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand > >> >> that > >> >> all > >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single > >> >> umbrella > >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At the > >> same > >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear > such > >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had > >> >> chosen > >> >> the > >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The end > >> >> result > >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious > >> >> fundamentalists > >> >> and > >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are a > >> >> nation > >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems > from > >> >> the > >> >> freedom of speech point of view. > >> >> > >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. > >> >> > >> >> Rakesh > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> >> Raqs Media Collective > >> >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> www.sarai.net > >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > Freelance Writer > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe > >> > in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Writer > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 18 16:27:27 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:57:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) In-Reply-To: <341380d01002180221j2e268691sf073cbbefbff5f5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <871167.71001.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam   My apologies for my being visually impaired.    You found a contradiction between "overpower" and "unharmed". I tried explaining how it was not unnatural for the two to go together.   Now you bring in the words "attack", "loot", "stormed".   For each one of these words also, if you patiently go through the very links that you yourself have provided you will find alternatives of meanings which contain the possibility of the one "overpowered", "attacked", "looted", "stormed" need not have been inflicted with "physical, moral, or mental" injury.   Detailing those meanings for you is going to be a waste of time. I say that on the basis of the arrogant and confrontational tone you have adopted. The same goes for discussing this any further with you.   There is a saying in Punjabi?/Hindi? which I am unable to translate but which you might get explained to you for it aptly describes the state of your mind. It is:   " khisiani billi, khambaa nochay"   Kshmendra   --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Aditya Raj Kaul" , "sarai list" Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 3:51 PM Dear Kshmendra, I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which completely changes the context in which the news report was written. However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of force and that too physical: The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. Similarly, you could follow this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot  to find the meaning of the word 'loot'. Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south Kashmir." A word that has been used to describe what you think was an overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the meaning of the word 'storm': http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' was used. The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is:  4.25 KG (9.4 LB) empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg (8.8–9.8 lb). Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we do not what this word means, I have heard these words used consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen should start in this case. I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. -Anupam On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam > > Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict > yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. > > "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting > moral or mental injury.  The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers in > a ring. > > Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make helpless > or ineffective. > > You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. > > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was > for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) > To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM > > > The report in the beginning says: > > "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora > in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the > policemen, official sources said today. > > Overpower: o·ver·pow·er  (vr-pour) > tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers > 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. > 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. > 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. > > And then we have: > > "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, > they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly > gone home unauthorisedly." > > unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental > injury > > It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not > well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the > reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to > believe? > > -Thanks > Anupam > > On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >> >> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >> Kashmi >> >> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in >> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >> official sources said today. >> >> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two SLRs >> -- >> along with some ammunition. >> >> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they >> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home >> unauthorisedly. >> >> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and a >> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >> weapons, the sources said. >> >> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental >> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >> >> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. >> >> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 16:27:57 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:27:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002180257v5e6e4de4me86e3386dcc77e9e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, The mail was meant for Kshmendra, so let's see what he has to say. Thanks for sharing the link. I think the PTI report that you have cited is not worthy enough to be believed as there is another version of the story by IANS which says the guards were tied up. Now you decide: were these guards tied up by the insurgents? or they were left unharmed? OK? -Anupam On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam > > The first two lines of your recent e-mail on the list read as follows - > * > "I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I > had a software by which I could read out the news report in question."* > > I didn't find it worth enough to read the e-mail further. The above lines > unfortunately are applicable on your good self. I share with you the link - > > http://www.ptinews.com/news/521987_Militants-attack-cop-post-near-Srinagar--loot-weapons > > I don't doubt the news report. So I rest my case. > > thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > >> Dear Aditya, >> >> I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI >> would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing >> story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as well, >> I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could >> kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very helpful. >> >> And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in my >> reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your reply >> Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a lot >> about the kind of news coming out of the valley. >> >> Thanks >> Anupam >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > Dear Anupam, >> > >> > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that answer >> your >> > questions? >> > >> > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't want it >> to >> > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me who >> > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! >> > >> > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or >> 'contradiction' >> > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. >> > >> > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain from >> > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in useless >> > discussion. >> > >> > thanks >> > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> >> >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important news >> >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and >> >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to >> >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you cannot >> >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else on >> >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue >> >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am sorry I >> >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or >> >> anyone posts it on this list. >> >> >> >> -Anupam >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> > Dear Friends >> >> > >> >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of >> >> 'value' >> >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to >> ignore >> >> and >> >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. >> >> > >> >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take criticism >> >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. >> >> > >> >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we move >> >> ahead >> >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it >> >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. >> >> > >> >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let them >> >> enjoy >> >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one >> >> > opinion >> >> flow >> >> > in the network. >> >> > >> >> > regards >> >> > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Dear Rakesh, >> >> >> >> >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste >> for >> >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all >> >> >> disputing >> >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we >> >> should >> >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. >> >> >> >> >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the >> >> >> corresponding >> >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. That >> is >> >> the >> >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. I >> am >> >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism is >> >> >> not >> >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. >> >> >> >> >> >> best >> >> >> >> >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to understand >> >> >> that >> >> >> all >> >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single >> >> >> umbrella >> >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At >> >> >> the >> >> same >> >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear >> such >> >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had >> >> >> chosen >> >> >> the >> >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The end >> >> >> result >> >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious >> >> >> fundamentalists >> >> >> and >> >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are >> >> >> a >> >> >> nation >> >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems >> from >> >> >> the >> >> >> freedom of speech point of view. >> >> >> >> >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. >> >> >> >> >> >> Rakesh >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >> >> Raqs Media Collective >> >> >> shuddha at sarai.net >> >> >> www.sarai.net >> >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > Freelance Writer >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > Freelance Writer >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 >> > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Writer > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 16:35:50 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:35:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) In-Reply-To: <871167.71001.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <341380d01002180221j2e268691sf073cbbefbff5f5a@mail.gmail.com> <871167.71001.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002180305x7af9795fqd93bd8a94e06e695@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, You may attribute any of the Punjabi/ Kashmiri sayings to me which I do not want to know. Even if I do, I have rightly inferred your state of mind. That you overlook things. It is proven that you have not read the news report which is in question and you are blindly defending a news report for which there is at least one contradictory version being put up by a reputed newspaper. Speaks volumes about your approach to unravel the truth behind such reports in your area, speaks a lot about your efforts to bring peace to the valley. I will speak no more on this. For your information, kindly read that report once again. I have not inserted these words, such as loot or attack, it was used by the person who wrote it. I was doubting the credibility of this report and I will keep doing so. You and Aditya have been exposed and all the readers now know what you are here for. I rest my case here. -Anupam On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam > > My apologies for my being visually impaired. > > You found a contradiction between "overpower" and "unharmed". I tried > explaining how it was not unnatural for the two to go together. > > Now you bring in the words "attack", "loot", "stormed". > > For each one of these words also, if you patiently go through the very links > that you yourself have provided you will find alternatives of meanings which > contain the possibility of the one "overpowered", "attacked", "looted", > "stormed" need not have been inflicted with "physical, moral, or mental" > injury. > > Detailing those meanings for you is going to be a waste of time. I say that > on the basis of the arrogant and confrontational tone you have adopted. The > same goes for discussing this any further with you. > > There is a saying in Punjabi?/Hindi? which I am unable to translate but > which you might get explained to you for it aptly describes the state of > your mind. It is: > > " khisiani billi, khambaa nochay" > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket was > for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" > Cc: "Aditya Raj Kaul" , "sarai list" > > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 3:51 PM > > > Dear Kshmendra, > > I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I > had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. > I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which > completely changes the context in which the news report was written. > However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of > force and that too physical: > > The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." > > at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack > > Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you > pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. > Similarly, you could follow this link: > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot  to find the meaning of > the word 'loot'. > > Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up > for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in > Pulwama district of south Kashmir." > > A word that has been used to describe what you think was an > overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the > meaning of the word 'storm': > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' > was used. > > The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed > to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which > is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that > happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with > two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or > even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when > written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended > from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is:  4.25 KG (9.4 LB) > empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg > (8.8–9.8 lb). > > Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example > of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were > "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we > do not what this word means, I have heard these words used > consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the > media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to > really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. > > Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these > terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this > policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these > policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their > presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level > inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen > should start in this case. > > I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the > same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in > highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. > > -Anupam > > On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> Dear Anupam >> >> Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict >> yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. >> >> "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting >> moral or mental injury.  The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers >> in >> a ring. >> >> Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make helpless >> or ineffective. >> >> You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. >> >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> >> From: anupam chakravartty >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >> was >> for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >> To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM >> >> >> The report in the beginning says: >> >> "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora >> in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the >> policemen, official sources said today. >> >> Overpower: o·ver·pow·er  (vr-pour) >> tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers >> 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. >> 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. >> 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. >> >> And then we have: >> >> "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, >> they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly >> gone home unauthorisedly." >> >> unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental >> injury >> >> It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not >> well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the >> reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to >> believe? >> >> -Thanks >> Anupam >> >> On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >>> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >>> >>> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >>> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >>> Kashmi >>> >>> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in >>> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >>> official sources said today. >>> >>> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two SLRs >>> -- >>> along with some ammunition. >>> >>> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they >>> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone home >>> unauthorisedly. >>> >>> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and a >>> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >>> weapons, the sources said. >>> >>> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental >>> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >>> >>> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. >>> >>> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >>> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 17:46:53 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:46:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <341380d01002180257v5e6e4de4me86e3386dcc77e9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180257v5e6e4de4me86e3386dcc77e9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c691002180416h3411df8w3b2c17f80950ac63@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, I wonder how can you manage contradicting yourself just so many times within minutes. You ask me to react to your detailed understanding and then claim the mail was meant for Kshmendra. Just because you regard IANS better than other newspaper/agencies doesn't mean everyone must agree to the same. I am no one to decide what happened there. I wasn't the one to witness the incident neither did I report it. Whenever I meet my 3 year old nephew, he politely asks me for a gift and then says 'so you will get it soon'. ok? In hope he remains, I like behavior of such cute kids. regards On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:27 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > The mail was meant for Kshmendra, so let's see what he has to say. > Thanks for sharing the link. I think the PTI report that you have > cited is not worthy enough to be believed as there is another version > of the story by IANS which says the guards were tied up. > > Now you decide: were these guards tied up by the insurgents? or they > were left unharmed? OK? > > -Anupam > > > > On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > > > The first two lines of your recent e-mail on the list read as follows - > > * > > "I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I > > had a software by which I could read out the news report in question."* > > > > I didn't find it worth enough to read the e-mail further. The above lines > > unfortunately are applicable on your good self. I share with you the link > - > > > > > http://www.ptinews.com/news/521987_Militants-attack-cop-post-near-Srinagar--loot-weapons > > > > I don't doubt the news report. So I rest my case. > > > > thanks > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM, anupam chakravartty > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Aditya, > >> > >> I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI > >> would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing > >> story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as well, > >> I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could > >> kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very helpful. > >> > >> And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in my > >> reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your reply > >> Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a lot > >> about the kind of news coming out of the valley. > >> > >> Thanks > >> Anupam > >> > >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> > Dear Anupam, > >> > > >> > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that > answer > >> your > >> > questions? > >> > > >> > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't want > it > >> to > >> > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me who > >> > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! > >> > > >> > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or > >> 'contradiction' > >> > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. > >> > > >> > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain > from > >> > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in useless > >> > discussion. > >> > > >> > thanks > >> > > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Aditya, > >> >> > >> >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important news > >> >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and > >> >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to > >> >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you > cannot > >> >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else on > >> >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue > >> >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am sorry I > >> >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or > >> >> anyone posts it on this list. > >> >> > >> >> -Anupam > >> >> > >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> >> > Dear Friends > >> >> > > >> >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of > >> >> 'value' > >> >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to > >> ignore > >> >> and > >> >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. > >> >> > > >> >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take > criticism > >> >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. > >> >> > > >> >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we > move > >> >> ahead > >> >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it > >> >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. > >> >> > > >> >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let > them > >> >> enjoy > >> >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one > >> >> > opinion > >> >> flow > >> >> > in the network. > >> >> > > >> >> > regards > >> >> > > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> > > >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Dear Rakesh, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste > >> for > >> >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all > >> >> >> disputing > >> >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we > >> >> should > >> >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the > >> >> >> corresponding > >> >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. > That > >> is > >> >> the > >> >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. > I > >> am > >> >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism > is > >> >> >> not > >> >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> best > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Shuddha > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to > understand > >> >> >> that > >> >> >> all > >> >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single > >> >> >> umbrella > >> >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At > >> >> >> the > >> >> same > >> >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear > >> such > >> >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had > >> >> >> chosen > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The > end > >> >> >> result > >> >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious > >> >> >> fundamentalists > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We > are > >> >> >> a > >> >> >> nation > >> >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems > >> from > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> freedom of speech point of view. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, > objectively. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Rakesh > >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> >> >> Raqs Media Collective > >> >> >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> >> www.sarai.net > >> >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> > > >> >> > Freelance Writer > >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe > >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > Freelance Writer > >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 > >> > > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe > >> > in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Writer > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 18:05:20 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:05:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002180416h3411df8w3b2c17f80950ac63@mail.gmail.com> References: <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180257v5e6e4de4me86e3386dcc77e9e@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180416h3411df8w3b2c17f80950ac63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002180435l177e55b8s83046f2e87b3f6e9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, I cannot but humour you my friend. Because it looks like you have not just used a prestigious organisation like PTI but also your friend Kshmendra to get into this debate, where pollute this reader's list with developing stories. I hope you understand what developing stories. This is essentially news which needs regular updation as contradictions are bound to rise. You are no different from any of these activists who you abuse in this reader's list by screaming democratic right to expression. I would not drag your little nephew into this debate. It is a shame that you are not even sparing your relatives by engaging them in a defense which is not needed here. All we need is to logically understand, break the news. You posted a news item and you thought your job was over, therefore I took it up upon myself to deconstruct it. I shared with you what i found in the way it was written to which you and Kshmendra turned completely blind. I am not denying that the attack or the incident did not happen. I have stated that over and over again. It is just to show that how news is being reported from this region and what actually happens, which nobody knows. It was just an attempt to understand it. Kshmendra's reservation for my comments was understandable. He was perhaps trying correct me for which I had replied that why I thought that this particular news report was little concocted. But look at you ... at least leave your nephew from this. -Anupam On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam, > > I wonder how can you manage contradicting yourself just so many times within > minutes. You ask me to react to your detailed understanding and then claim > the mail was meant for Kshmendra. > > Just because you regard IANS better than other newspaper/agencies doesn't > mean everyone must agree to the same. > > I am no one to decide what happened there. I wasn't the one to witness the > incident neither did I report it. > > Whenever I meet my 3 year old nephew, he politely asks me for a gift and > then says 'so you will get it soon'. ok? In hope he remains, I like behavior > of such cute kids. > > regards > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:27 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > >> Dear Aditya, >> >> The mail was meant for Kshmendra, so let's see what he has to say. >> Thanks for sharing the link. I think the PTI report that you have >> cited is not worthy enough to be believed as there is another version >> of the story by IANS which says the guards were tied up. >> >> Now you decide: were these guards tied up by the insurgents? or they >> were left unharmed? OK? >> >> -Anupam >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > Dear Anupam >> > >> > The first two lines of your recent e-mail on the list read as follows - >> > * >> > "I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I >> > had a software by which I could read out the news report in question."* >> > >> > I didn't find it worth enough to read the e-mail further. The above >> > lines >> > unfortunately are applicable on your good self. I share with you the >> > link >> - >> > >> > >> http://www.ptinews.com/news/521987_Militants-attack-cop-post-near-Srinagar--loot-weapons >> > >> > I don't doubt the news report. So I rest my case. >> > >> > thanks >> > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM, anupam chakravartty >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> >> >> I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI >> >> would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing >> >> story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as well, >> >> I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could >> >> kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very helpful. >> >> >> >> And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in my >> >> reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your reply >> >> Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a lot >> >> about the kind of news coming out of the valley. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Anupam >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> > Dear Anupam, >> >> > >> >> > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that >> answer >> >> your >> >> > questions? >> >> > >> >> > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't want >> it >> >> to >> >> > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me >> >> > who >> >> > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! >> >> > >> >> > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or >> >> 'contradiction' >> >> > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. >> >> > >> >> > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain >> from >> >> > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in useless >> >> > discussion. >> >> > >> >> > thanks >> >> > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> >> >> >> >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important >> >> >> news >> >> >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and >> >> >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to >> >> >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you >> cannot >> >> >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else >> >> >> on >> >> >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not devalue >> >> >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am sorry >> >> >> I >> >> >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or >> >> >> anyone posts it on this list. >> >> >> >> >> >> -Anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> >> > Dear Friends >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be >> >> >> > of >> >> >> 'value' >> >> >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to >> >> ignore >> >> >> and >> >> >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it >> >> >> > names. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take >> criticism >> >> >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we >> move >> >> >> ahead >> >> >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is >> >> >> > it >> >> >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let >> them >> >> >> enjoy >> >> >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one >> >> >> > opinion >> >> >> flow >> >> >> > in the network. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > regards >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Dear Rakesh, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a >> >> >> >> taste >> >> for >> >> >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all >> >> >> >> disputing >> >> >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course >> >> >> >> we >> >> >> should >> >> >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the >> >> >> >> corresponding >> >> >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. >> That >> >> is >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. >> I >> >> am >> >> >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism >> is >> >> >> >> not >> >> >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> best >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to >> understand >> >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> all >> >> >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a >> >> >> >> single >> >> >> >> umbrella >> >> >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> same >> >> >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and >> >> >> >> hear >> >> such >> >> >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had >> >> >> >> chosen >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The >> end >> >> >> >> result >> >> >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious >> >> >> >> fundamentalists >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We >> are >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> >> nation >> >> >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such >> >> >> >> poems >> >> from >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> freedom of speech point of view. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, >> objectively. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Rakesh >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >> >> >> Raqs Media Collective >> >> >> >> shuddha at sarai.net >> >> >> >> www.sarai.net >> >> >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Freelance Writer >> >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe >> >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > Freelance Writer >> >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 >> >> > >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > Freelance Writer >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 >> > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Writer > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 18 19:15:15 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:45:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] (visually impaired) "Blind With Camera: Images from a world that is not seen" Message-ID: <134695.65239.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com>     "Blind With Camera: Images from a world that is not seen"   It’s a particularly fascinating idea – visually impaired taking photographs. Did this idea take you a few seconds to comprehend? This is one of the most wonderful initiatives that have broken the myths about limitation. Blind with Camera, a wing of the Beyond Sight Foundation, is an initiative that has empowered many a visually challenged individuals to use photography as a medium to express their inner self. Through the perception of touch, sound and warmth, we are now welcome to experience the world as the blind experience.   It was by accident that Blind With Camera took life in the mind of Partho Bhowmick. Partho came across an article about Evgen Bavcar who is a blind photographer based out of Paris. Deeply moved and startled, Partho, a photographer himself, started his journey towards understanding the world of the blind and how photography can be a medium of artistic expression for the visually impaired. In this pursuit, Partho founded Blind with Camera and has been tremendously successful in connecting the world of images and the world of the visually challenged.   How are the blind able to take pictures? How are they able to capture hues, tones and lighting? Partho Bhowmick explains – “Various tactile, audio clues, visual memories of sight, the warmth of light and cognitive skills are used by the visually impaired to create “mental image” before they make the judgment to take a picture. They use camera as an extension of their “self” to explore the visual world, gain deeper insight while recording their imagination and point-of-view.”   Blind With Camera organizes workshops for the visually challenged to introduce photography and help the blind transcend to this new realm of expression. Photographs taken by the blind are showcased in exclusive photo exhibitions which are not just a great exposure to their art but also a source of income to the photographers. Partho says that the exhibitions gave a feeling of pride and belonging to the visually impaired, which elevated their self-esteem, developed their confidence, personality and gave inspiration to achieve more.   Now, the blind cannot be deprived of the joy of cherishing their own artwork, right? To make this possible, Blind With Camera makes sure that the photographs are touchable raised images. The photos are supported by Braille notes, large prints and visual aids so that the blind can access and savor the photographs.   Blind with Camera is a momentous step in our pursuit towards an inclusive society. You can know more about the organization and see the pictures taken by visually challenged photographers at http://blindwithcamera.org/. Support the cause!   Ranjini Sivaswamy 17 February 2010   (must see Gallery at http://blindwithcamera.org/category/photo-gallery/ )   http://www.thebetterindia.com/1217/blind-with-camera-images-from-a-world-that-is-not-seen/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheBetterIndia+%28The+Better+India%29&utm_content=Yahoo%21+Mail     From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 20:03:23 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:33:23 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] use of "visually impaired" to abuse References: <871167.71001.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5DF19DA9D24B41269C068B1092C818BD@tara> I think I missed the mail which Kshmendra is responding to. Oh yes, this guys gets filtered out of my inbox. But I would like moderators to be watchful. There are people who are using insensitive abuses towards a specific community. Even though blind/visually impaired do not fall within the dominant structure of backward, in fact disabled people have been kept out of it for political purposes, they have right to remain as sensitive to discrimnatory language as the other other groups discriminated against by the society. Calling someone who ignores or do not understand a mail or some parts of it, "visually impaired" is abusive as it associates blindness with foolishness. My fear is that if people are not stopped from using insensitive language towards a section of the society, that has as much right to command respect as any other group, the future mails on this list may get worse. I don't like people being called blind/visually impaired to abuse as much as I don't like people being called bhangi, chamar, katva, hijra and other insensitive terms which are part of everyday lexicon on the streets in India. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kshmendra Kaul" To: "anupam chakravartty" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:57 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket wasfor protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) > Dear Anupam > > My apologies for my being visually impaired. > > You found a contradiction between "overpower" and "unharmed". I tried > explaining how it was not unnatural for the two to go together. > > Now you bring in the words "attack", "loot", "stormed". > > For each one of these words also, if you patiently go through the very > links that you yourself have provided you will find alternatives of > meanings which contain the possibility of the one "overpowered", > "attacked", "looted", "stormed" need not have been inflicted with > "physical, moral, or mental" injury. > > Detailing those meanings for you is going to be a waste of time. I say > that on the basis of the arrogant and confrontational tone you have > adopted. The same goes for discussing this any further with you. > > There is a saying in Punjabi?/Hindi? which I am unable to translate but > which you might get explained to you for it aptly describes the state of > your mind. It is: > > " khisiani billi, khambaa nochay" > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket > was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" > Cc: "Aditya Raj Kaul" , "sarai list" > > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 3:51 PM > > > Dear Kshmendra, > > I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I > had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. > I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which > completely changes the context in which the news report was written. > However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of > force and that too physical: > > The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." > > at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack > > Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you > pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. > Similarly, you could follow this link: > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot to find the meaning of > the word 'loot'. > > Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up > for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in > Pulwama district of south Kashmir." > > A word that has been used to describe what you think was an > overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the > meaning of the word 'storm': > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' > was used. > > The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed > to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which > is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that > happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with > two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or > even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when > written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended > from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is: 4.25 KG (9.4 LB) > empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg > (8.8–9.8 lb). > > Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example > of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were > "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we > do not what this word means, I have heard these words used > consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the > media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to > really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. > > Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these > terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this > policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these > policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their > presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level > inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen > should start in this case. > > I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the > same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in > highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. > > -Anupam > > On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> Dear Anupam >> >> Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict >> yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. >> >> "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting >> moral or mental injury. The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers >> in >> a ring. >> >> Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make >> helpless >> or ineffective. >> >> You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. >> >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> >> From: anupam chakravartty >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >> was >> for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >> To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM >> >> >> The report in the beginning says: >> >> "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora >> in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the >> policemen, official sources said today. >> >> Overpower: o·ver·pow·er (vr-pour) >> tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers >> 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. >> 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. >> 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. >> >> And then we have: >> >> "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, >> they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly >> gone home unauthorisedly." >> >> unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental >> injury >> >> It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not >> well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the >> reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to >> believe? >> >> -Thanks >> Anupam >> >> On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >>> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >>> >>> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >>> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >>> Kashmi >>> >>> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in >>> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >>> official sources said today. >>> >>> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two >>> SLRs >>> -- >>> along with some ammunition. >>> >>> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they >>> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone >>> home >>> unauthorisedly. >>> >>> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and >>> a >>> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >>> weapons, the sources said. >>> >>> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental >>> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >>> >>> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. >>> >>> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >>> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 20:10:25 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:40:25 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested References: Message-ID: Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" Cc: "Sarai" Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 and included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, Ladakh, Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about solutions then you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people and not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > From: TaraPrakash > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 > To: Junaid > Cc: > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this > old > problem. Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which > Kashmiris" was not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri > nationality, or unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just > canceling the noise. JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the > brutal Mujahaddins, in their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, > moved to J&K. From then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their > homes. Every dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women > were told to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces > was their fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred > and if that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being > vocal. Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they > Kashmiris? But they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. > Aren't they Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are > Kashmiris in POK free? Those who are part of National conference or PDP, > aren't they Kashmiris? Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the > question still remains which Kashmiris? ----- Original Message ----- From: > "Junaid" To: "Tara Prakash" Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM Subject: Re: > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested Dear Tara, I quote you: "But > isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? Which Kashmiris?" End. I > absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two follow-up > questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones that will lead us to > specifics. If anything they will further push us into a metaphysics of denial. > I assume you know enough about Kashmir and are aware that there is no shortage > of solutions. Indian government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a > political issue, and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that > remains is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The > "right solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free > and fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives > for Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made it > clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be forced down > the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's legitimacy and > authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows that is, can go to > "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the problem). The first step would > be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of their problem, that is allow them to > find the right solution with a guarantee that it will be accepted. The second > question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we really keep > telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By asking this question, are > you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? If you believe that "the people" > have to elect their representatives, how can you in the same breath deny the > existence of those same people? I guess the first "concrete suggestions" > would be the dismantling of the draconian military and police apparatus from > Kashmir: i.e. 1. remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of > military and police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA > and Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies involved > in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. Allow Kashmiris to > peacefully express their dissent (remove restrictions on free speech and > assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the stranglehold that the security agencies > have over the everyday life of people through technics of surveillance and > proliferation of threats. Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next > ones. At least it will show that the Indian government is sincere in its > efforts to solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to > tire people out. Junaid On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash > wrote: > "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to > be solved, with the full > involvement of Kashmiris." > Agreed. But isn't it > time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > Kashmiris? A democratic > exercise requires people to elect their > representatives who can talk on > their behalf. But those who are chosen, > are > found to be going "to any > extent to please their masters in Delhi" > I don't think the Indian govt or UN > can talk to every Kashmiri on this > earth > for the resolution of the > problem. > It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions > towards > resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate > > people, > so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a > climate > towards > resolution of the issue. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Junaid" > To: ; "Junaid" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > Subject: > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > >> Dozens of young boys have > been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >> laws over the last few weeks. > The charges that have been filed against >> them range from "waging war > against the state" to defiling "state >> honor". In recent months Indian > military and police commanders have >> described protests in Kashmir as > "agitational terrorism" and >> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify > violent clampdown on >> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 > people, mostly >> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured > by >> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >> > number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >> thousands of > people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >> permanent physical > disabilities. The police authorities have banned >> any peaceful assembly of > people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >> other towns have reported > police brutalities. Even the villages are >> not being spared. Only yesterday, > mourning villagers were attacked by >> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South > Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most > of the injuries were inflicted >> above the waist showing an intention to > kill. >> >> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, > but >> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel > dimension. >> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline > and >> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >> > state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >> deceive > its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >> in Azad > Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >> has been there > for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >> back every few years > to earn brownie points. >> >> National Conference government which has proved > its inability to >> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't > even remove >> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has > sought to >> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent > to >> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >> > leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >> > police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >> Kashmir > police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >> perhaps in a > bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >> army's help. >> >> > Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >> from > the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >> time, the > conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >> with > Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >> inhuman > tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >> stop human > rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >> Kashmir is a > political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >> involvement of > Kashmiris. >> _____________________ >> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K > gov; >> >> Riyaz Wani >> >> >> > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 > >> >> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >> > Owaging war against the state¹, a crime punishable with death or life >> in > jail. >> >> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against > eight >> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >> > while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >> 121 of > CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >> Department > told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >> PSAs against ³20 > more such youths². >> >> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court > on Monday. Police >> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon > granted by Judge >> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told > the court, >> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and > security >> forces. >> >> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said > the youths were held >> in random raids across the city and were not involved > in >> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of > CrPC. >> >> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety > Act >> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >> > booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >> > shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >> protests > over the death of two women in Shopian. >> >> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said > he was not in a position to give ³the >> exact number of youths² booked under > PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. ³I am >> out of station and don¹t have the exact > number,² Ahmad told The Indian >> Express. >> Police say waging war against > country, judge not impressed >> >> _____________ >> Police say waging war > against country, judge not impressed >> >> Peerzada Ashiq >> > peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >> >> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted > Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows > of chairs. ³Yes madam. >> Present madam², replied a boy standing among 16 > jostled youth with red >> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >> >> This is > no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >> in downtown > Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >> police presented > them before the court on Monday for extending their >> police remand. But > after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >> boys to judicial remand > for 15 days. >> >> ³How did you know all the names of the arrested youth in > advance?² >> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. > ³Through >> reliable sources,² replied the investigation officer. >> >> ³How > is it possible? I don¹t know anyone of these boys. Who are these >> reliable > sources?² asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >> officer, looking > at the floor, said: ³They are active stone throwers, >> and involved for the > last five years.² >> >> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when > Zahid, one of the >> accused, interjected saying, ³This is for the first time > we are in the >> lock up,² adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, > who was on >> the bike when the police arrested him. >> >> The boy, wearing a > pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >> joined by others in the > room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >> requesting them to wipe tears > and be mum. ³Don¹t worry justice will be >> done,² said Joo adding since Chief > Minister Omar Abdullah told the >> media we are launching a crackdown against > stone-pelters, the police >> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >> >> > The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >> heavy > chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >> the state and > insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >> life imprisonment. > The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >> and were presented > before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >> >> Lawyer Joo contested > that the police cannot impose the waging a war >> against the nation unless a > magistrate has done an investigation in a >> case and the police cannot do it > on their own. >> >> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a > row, their >> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their > innocence: >> ³We were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and > arrested >> us,² they said. >> >> While a policeman shouted back: ³They have > snatched our peace.² >> _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & > Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > ______________________ > ___________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 20:19:37 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:19:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] use of "visually impaired" to abuse In-Reply-To: <5DF19DA9D24B41269C068B1092C818BD@tara> References: <871167.71001.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5DF19DA9D24B41269C068B1092C818BD@tara> Message-ID: <341380d01002180649o7719f770geeb0731c7333774@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, I apologise if I had hurt your sensibilities but It was Kshmendra who had in earlier exchange of mails told me to call spade, a spade. Therefore, i think the analogy still stands not as an abuse but a way of extending help to those who have eyes but still pretend that they are visually impaired. While, there could be many who are actually visually impaired but know what some words mean. Regards Anupam On 2/18/10, Tara Prakash wrote: > I think I missed the mail which Kshmendra is responding to. Oh yes, this > guys gets filtered out of my inbox. > But I would like moderators to be watchful. There are people who are using > insensitive abuses towards a specific community. Even though blind/visually > impaired do not fall within the dominant structure of backward, in fact > disabled people have been kept out of it for political purposes, they have > right to remain as sensitive to discrimnatory language as the other other > groups discriminated against by the society. > Calling someone who ignores or do not understand a mail or some parts of it, > "visually impaired" is abusive as it associates blindness with foolishness. > My fear is that if people are not stopped from using insensitive language > towards a section of the society, that has as much right to command respect > as any other group, the future mails on this list may get worse. I don't > like people being called blind/visually impaired to abuse as much as I don't > like people being called bhangi, chamar, katva, hijra and other insensitive > terms which are part of everyday lexicon on the streets in India. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kshmendra Kaul" > To: "anupam chakravartty" > Cc: "sarai list" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket > wasfor protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) > > >> Dear Anupam >> >> My apologies for my being visually impaired. >> >> You found a contradiction between "overpower" and "unharmed". I tried >> explaining how it was not unnatural for the two to go together. >> >> Now you bring in the words "attack", "loot", "stormed". >> >> For each one of these words also, if you patiently go through the very >> links that you yourself have provided you will find alternatives of >> meanings which contain the possibility of the one "overpowered", >> "attacked", "looted", "stormed" need not have been inflicted with >> "physical, moral, or mental" injury. >> >> Detailing those meanings for you is going to be a waste of time. I say >> that on the basis of the arrogant and confrontational tone you have >> adopted. The same goes for discussing this any further with you. >> >> There is a saying in Punjabi?/Hindi? which I am unable to translate but >> which you might get explained to you for it aptly describes the state of >> your mind. It is: >> >> " khisiani billi, khambaa nochay" >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> >> From: anupam chakravartty >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >> was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >> To: "Kshmendra Kaul" >> Cc: "Aditya Raj Kaul" , "sarai list" >> >> Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 3:51 PM >> >> >> Dear Kshmendra, >> >> I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I >> had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. >> I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which >> completely changes the context in which the news report was written. >> However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of >> force and that too physical: >> >> The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." >> >> at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack >> >> Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you >> pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. >> Similarly, you could follow this link: >> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot to find the meaning of >> the word 'loot'. >> >> Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up >> for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in >> Pulwama district of south Kashmir." >> >> A word that has been used to describe what you think was an >> overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the >> meaning of the word 'storm': >> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' >> was used. >> >> The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed >> to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which >> is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that >> happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with >> two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or >> even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when >> written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended >> from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is: 4.25 KG (9.4 LB) >> empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg >> (8.8–9.8 lb). >> >> Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example >> of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were >> "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we >> do not what this word means, I have heard these words used >> consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the >> media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to >> really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. >> >> Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these >> terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this >> policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these >> policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their >> presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level >> inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen >> should start in this case. >> >> I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the >> same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in >> highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. >> >> -Anupam >> >> On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >>> Dear Anupam >>> >>> Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict >>> yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. >>> >>> "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting >>> moral or mental injury. The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers >>> in >>> a ring. >>> >>> Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make >>> helpless >>> or ineffective. >>> >>> You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. >>> >>> >>> Kshmendra >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: anupam chakravartty >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >>> was >>> for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >>> To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" >>> Cc: "sarai list" >>> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM >>> >>> >>> The report in the beginning says: >>> >>> "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora >>> in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the >>> policemen, official sources said today. >>> >>> Overpower: o·ver·pow·er (vr-pour) >>> tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers >>> 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. >>> 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. >>> 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. >>> >>> And then we have: >>> >>> "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, >>> they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly >>> gone home unauthorisedly." >>> >>> unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental >>> injury >>> >>> It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not >>> well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the >>> reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to >>> believe? >>> >>> -Thanks >>> Anupam >>> >>> On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>>> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >>>> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >>>> >>>> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >>>> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >>>> Kashmi >>>> >>>> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in >>>> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >>>> official sources said today. >>>> >>>> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two >>>> SLRs >>>> -- >>>> along with some ammunition. >>>> >>>> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they >>>> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone >>>> home >>>> unauthorisedly. >>>> >>>> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and >>>> a >>>> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >>>> weapons, the sources said. >>>> >>>> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental >>>> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >>>> >>>> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. >>>> >>>> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >>>> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe >>>> in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 21:46:59 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:46:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] letter to Bachchanji from Mallika S. Message-ID: Can I believe in your endorsements, Bachchanji? Mallika Sarabhai My dear Bachchanji, Greetings from a Gujarati. You are indeed a fine actor. You are an intelligent man and a shrewd businessman. But should I believe in your endorsements? Let's take a brief look at what you proclaim you believe in (albeit for huge sums of money). BPL, ICICI, Parker and Luxor pens, Maruti Versa, Cadbury Chocolates. Nerolac Paints, Dabur, Emami, Eveready, Sahara City Homes, D'damas, Binani Cement and Reliance. And now Gujarat. I wonder how you decide what to endorse. Is your house built with Binani Cement? Do you really like Cadbury's Chocolates or do you have to resort to Dabar's Hajmola (whose efficacy you have earlier checked) after eating them? And, having endorsed two pens, one very upmarket and one rather down, which one do you use? Have you, except perhaps for the shooting of the ad, ever driven or been driven in a Versa? Do you know whether the Nerolac paint in your home (you do use it don't you?) has lead in it that can poison you slowly as it does so many people? Or are the decisions entirely monetary? It has been reported that no direct fee will be paid to you for being my Brand Ambassador. So, with no monetary decision to guide you, how did you decide to say yes? Did you check on the state of the State? I doubt it, for the decision and the announcement came from one single meeting. And I somehow doubt that you have been following the news on Gujarat closely.So, as a Gujarati, permit me to introduce my State to you. Everyone knows of our vibrancy, of the billions and trillions pouring into our State through the two yearly jamborees called Vibrant Gujarat. But did you know that by the government's own admission no more than 23% of these have actually moved beyond the MOU stage? That while huge subsidies are being granted to our richest business houses, over 75,000 small and medium businesses have shut down rendering one million more people jobless? You know of Gujarat's fast paced growth and the FDI pouring in, you have no doubt seen pictures of the Czars of the business world lining up to pour money to develop us. To develop whom? Did you know that our poor are getting poorer? That while theAll-India reduction in poverty between '93 and 2005 is 8.5%, in Gujarat it is a mere 2.8%? That we have entire farmer families committing suicide, not just the male head of the household? You have heard of how some mealy mouthed NGO types have been blocking the progress of the Narmada project, how the government has prevailed, and water is pouring down every thirsty mouth and every bit of thirsty land. But did you know that in the 49 years since it was started, and in spite of the Rs.29,000 crores spent on it, only 29% of the work is complete? That the construction is so poor (lots of sand added to the you-know- which cement perhaps) that over the last nine years there have been 308 breaches, ruining lakhs of farmers whose fields were flooded, ruining the poorest salt farmers whose salt was washed away? That whereas in 1999, 4743 of Gujarat's villages were without drinking water, within two years that figure had gone up to 11,390 villages ? (I cannot even begin to project those figures for today - but do know that the figure has gone up dramatically rather than down.) With our CM, hailed as the CEO of Gujarat, we have once again achieved number one status - in indebtedness. In 2001 the State debt was Rs.14000 crores. This was before the State became a multinational company. Today it stands at Rs.1,05,000 crores. And to service this debt we pay a whopping Rs7000 crores a year, 25% of our annual budget. Meanwhile our spending on education is down, no new public hospitals for the poor are being built, fishermen are going a begging as the seas turn turgid with effluents, more mothers die at birth per thousandthan in the rest of India, and our general performance on the Human Development Index is nearly the first - from the bottom. One rape a day, 17 cases of violence against women, and, over the last ten years, 8802 suicides and 18152 "accidental " deaths of women are officially reported. You can imagine the real figures. You have said that you are our Ambassador because we have Somnath and Gandhi. Somnath was built for people. Gandhiji was a man of the people. Do the people of this State matter to you? If they do, perhaps your decision will be different. I hope you will read this letter and decide. In warmth and friendship, Mallika http://www.dnaindia.com/india/column_can-i-believe-in-your-endorsements-bachchanji_1347680 From justjunaid at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 22:27:10 2010 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:57:10 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tara, I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the the process and its outcome. Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. Junaid On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash wrote: > Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. > It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" > To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" > Cc: "Sarai" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > The dispute involves  the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 and > included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, Ladakh, > Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan.  If you talk about solutions then > you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people and > not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > > >> From: TaraPrakash >> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 >> To: Junaid >> Cc: >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this >> old >> > problem. > Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which >> >> Kashmiris" was > > not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri >> >> nationality, or > > unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just >> >> canceling the > > noise. > JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the >> >> brutal Mujahaddins, in > > their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, >> >> moved to J&K. From > > then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their >> >> homes. Every > > dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women >> >> were told > > to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces >> >> was their > > fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred >> >> and if > > that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being >> >> vocal. > > Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they >> >> Kashmiris? But > > they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. >> >> Aren't they > > Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are >> >> Kashmiris in > > POK free? > Those who are part of National conference or PDP, >> >> aren't they Kashmiris? > > Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the >> >> question still remains which > > Kashmiris? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> >> "Junaid" > > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: >> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: >> >> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > Dear Tara, > > I quote you: "But >> >> isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? > > Which Kashmiris?" End. > > I >> >> absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two > > follow-up >> >> questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones > > that will lead us to >> >> specifics. If anything they will further push us > > into a metaphysics of denial. >> >> I assume you know enough about Kashmir > > and are aware that there is no shortage >> >> of solutions. Indian > > government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a >> >> political issue, > > and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that >> >> remains > > is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The >> >> "right > > solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free >> >> and > > fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives >> >> for > > Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made > it >> >> clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be > > forced down >> >> the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's > > legitimacy and >> >> authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows > > that is, can go to >> >> "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the > > problem). The first step would >> >> be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of > > their problem, that is allow them to >> >> find the right solution with a > > guarantee that it will be accepted. > > The second >> >> question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we > > really keep >> >> telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By > > asking this question, are >> >> you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? > > If you believe that "the people" >> >> have to elect their representatives, > > how can you in the same breath deny the >> >> existence of those same > > people? > > I guess the first "concrete suggestions" >> >> would be the dismantling of > > the draconian military and police apparatus from >> >> Kashmir: i.e. 1. > > remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of >> >> military and > > police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA >> >> and > > Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies > involved >> >> in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. > > Allow Kashmiris to >> >> peacefully express their dissent (remove > > restrictions on free speech and >> >> assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the > > stranglehold that the security agencies >> >> have over the everyday life of > > people through technics of surveillance and >> >> proliferation of threats. > > Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next >> >> ones. At least it > > will show that the Indian government is sincere in its >> >> efforts to > > solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to >> >> tire > > people out. > > Junaid > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash >> >> wrote: >> "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to >> be solved, with the full >> involvement of Kashmiris." >> Agreed. But isn't it >> time to move to specifics. What solution? Which >> Kashmiris? A democratic >> exercise requires people to elect their >> representatives who can talk on >> their behalf. But those who are chosen, >> are >> found to be going "to any >> extent to please their masters in Delhi" >> I don't think the Indian govt or UN >> can talk to every Kashmiri on this >> earth >> for the resolution of the >> problem. >> It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions >> towards >> resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate >> >> people, >> so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a >> climate >> towards >> resolution of the issue. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Junaid" >> To: ; "Junaid" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM >> Subject: >> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >>> Dozens of young boys have >> >> been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >>> >>> laws over the last few weeks. >> >> The charges that have been filed against >>> >>> them range from "waging war >> >> against the state" to defiling "state >>> >>> honor". In recent months Indian >> >> military and police commanders have >>> >>> described protests in Kashmir as >> >> "agitational terrorism" and >>> >>> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify >> >> violent clampdown on >>> >>> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 >> >> people, mostly >>> >>> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured >> >> by >>> >>> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >>> >> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >>> >>> thousands of >> >> people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >>> >>> permanent physical >> >> disabilities. The police authorities have banned >>> >>> any peaceful assembly of >> >> people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >>> >>> other towns have reported >> >> police brutalities. Even the villages are >>> >>> not being spared. Only yesterday, >> >> mourning villagers were attacked by >>> >>> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South >> >> Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >>> >>> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most >> >> of the injuries were inflicted >>> >>> above the waist showing an intention to >> >> kill. >>> >>> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, >> >> but >>> >>> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel >> >> dimension. >>> >>> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline >> >> and >>> >>> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >>> >> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >>> >>> deceive >> >> its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >>> >>> in Azad >> >> Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >>> >>> has been there >> >> for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >>> >>> back every few years >> >> to earn brownie points. >>> >>> National Conference government which has proved >> >> its inability to >>> >>> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't >> >> even remove >>> >>> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has >> >> sought to >>> >>> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent >> >> to >>> >>> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >>> >> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >>> >> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >>> >>> Kashmir >> >> police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >>> >>> perhaps in a >> >> bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >>> >>> army's help. >>> >>> >> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >>> >>> from >> >> the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >>> >>> time, the >> >> conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >>> >>> with >> >> Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >>> >>> inhuman >> >> tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >>> >>> stop human >> >> rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >>> >>> Kashmir is a >> >> political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >>> >>> involvement of >> >> Kashmiris. >>> >>> _____________________ >>> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K >> >> gov; >>> >>> Riyaz Wani >>> >>> >>> >> >> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 >> >>> >>> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >>> >> Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or life >>> >>> in >> >> jail. >>> >>> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against >> >> eight >>> >>> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >>> >> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >>> >>> 121 of >> >> CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >>> >>> Department >> >> told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >>> >>> PSAs against ł20 >> >> more such youths˛. >>> >>> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court >> >> on Monday. Police >>> >>> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon >> >> granted by Judge >>> >>> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told >> >> the court, >>> >>> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and >> >> security >>> >>> forces. >>> >>> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said >> >> the youths were held >>> >>> in random raids across the city and were not involved >> >> in >>> >>> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of >> >> CrPC. >>> >>> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety >> >> Act >>> >>> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >>> >> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >>> >> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >>> >>> protests >> >> over the death of two women in Shopian. >>> >>> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said >> >> he was not in a position to give łthe >>> >>> exact number of youths˛ booked under >> >> PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am >>> >>> out of station and donąt have the exact >> >> number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian >>> >>> Express. >>> Police say waging war against >> >> country, judge not impressed >>> >>> _____________ >>> Police say waging war >> >> against country, judge not impressed >>> >>> Peerzada Ashiq >>> >> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >>> >>> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted >> >> Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >>> >>> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows >> >> of chairs. łYes madam. >>> >>> Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 >> >> jostled youth with red >>> >>> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >>> >>> This is >> >> no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >>> >>> in downtown >> >> Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >>> >>> police presented >> >> them before the court on Monday for extending their >>> >>> police remand. But >> >> after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >>> >>> boys to judicial remand >> >> for 15 days. >>> >>> łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in >> >> advance?˛ >>> >>> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. >> >> łThrough >>> >>> reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. >>> >>> łHow >> >> is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these >>> >>> reliable >> >> sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >>> >>> officer, looking >> >> at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, >>> >>> and involved for the >> >> last five years.˛ >>> >>> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when >> >> Zahid, one of the >>> >>> accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time >> >> we are in the >>> >>> lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, >> >> who was on >>> >>> the bike when the police arrested him. >>> >>> The boy, wearing a >> >> pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >>> >>> joined by others in the >> >> room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >>> >>> requesting them to wipe tears >> >> and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be >>> >>> done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief >> >> Minister Omar Abdullah told the >>> >>> media we are launching a crackdown against >> >> stone-pelters, the police >>> >>> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >>> >>> >> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >>> >>> heavy >> >> chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >>> >>> the state and >> >> insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >>> >>> life imprisonment. >> >> The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >>> >>> and were presented >> >> before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >>> >>> Lawyer Joo contested >> >> that the police cannot impose the waging a war >>> >>> against the nation unless a >> >> magistrate has done an investigation in a >>> >>> case and the police cannot do it >> >> on their own. >>> >>> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a >> >> row, their >>> >>> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their >> >> innocence: >>> >>> łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and >> >> arrested >>> >>> us,˛ they said. >>> >>> While a policeman shouted back: łThey have >> >> snatched our peace.˛ >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> Critiques & >> >> Collaborations >>> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> with >>> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> List archive: >> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > ______________________ >> >> ___________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> >> city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To >> >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List >> >> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 00:02:47 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:02:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <341380d01002180435l177e55b8s83046f2e87b3f6e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180257v5e6e4de4me86e3386dcc77e9e@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180416h3411df8w3b2c17f80950ac63@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180435l177e55b8s83046f2e87b3f6e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c691002181032wc08102eh8e7dd404fb1398@mail.gmail.com> Ah! Just forgot to mention my nephew doesn't argue unnecessarily. He is a good boy! I am sure after reading your arrogant response that you have no idea about 'Developing Stories'. Just a Google search on it won't help you, my friend. The PTI report wasn't merely 'news'; it was an official brief after the event and not an 'on ground reportage'. Try and differentiate now; if you can; and if you aren't in a hurry to respond back. How would this incident (story) develop, I wonder!?! Don't waste time, Mr. Chakravartty. regards Aditya Raj Kaul On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > I cannot but humour you my friend. Because it looks like you have not > just used a prestigious organisation like PTI but also your friend > Kshmendra to get into this debate, where pollute this reader's list > with developing stories. I hope you understand what developing > stories. This is essentially news which needs regular updation as > contradictions are bound to rise. You are no different from any of > these activists who you abuse in this reader's list by screaming > democratic right to expression. > > I would not drag your little nephew into this debate. It is a shame > that you are not even sparing your relatives by engaging them in a > defense which is not needed here. All we need is to logically > understand, break the news. You posted a news item and you thought > your job was over, therefore I took it up upon myself to deconstruct > it. I shared with you what i found in the way it was written to which > you and Kshmendra turned completely blind. I am not denying that the > attack or the incident did not happen. I have stated that over and > over again. It is just to show that how news is being reported from > this region and what actually happens, which nobody knows. It was just > an attempt to understand it. Kshmendra's reservation for my comments > was understandable. He was perhaps trying correct me for which I had > replied that why I thought that this particular news report was little > concocted. But look at you ... at least leave your nephew from this. > > -Anupam > > > > > On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam, > > > > I wonder how can you manage contradicting yourself just so many times > within > > minutes. You ask me to react to your detailed understanding and then > claim > > the mail was meant for Kshmendra. > > > > Just because you regard IANS better than other newspaper/agencies doesn't > > mean everyone must agree to the same. > > > > I am no one to decide what happened there. I wasn't the one to witness > the > > incident neither did I report it. > > > > Whenever I meet my 3 year old nephew, he politely asks me for a gift and > > then says 'so you will get it soon'. ok? In hope he remains, I like > behavior > > of such cute kids. > > > > regards > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:27 PM, anupam chakravartty > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Aditya, > >> > >> The mail was meant for Kshmendra, so let's see what he has to say. > >> Thanks for sharing the link. I think the PTI report that you have > >> cited is not worthy enough to be believed as there is another version > >> of the story by IANS which says the guards were tied up. > >> > >> Now you decide: were these guards tied up by the insurgents? or they > >> were left unharmed? OK? > >> > >> -Anupam > >> > >> > >> > >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> > Dear Anupam > >> > > >> > The first two lines of your recent e-mail on the list read as follows > - > >> > * > >> > "I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish > I > >> > had a software by which I could read out the news report in > question."* > >> > > >> > I didn't find it worth enough to read the e-mail further. The above > >> > lines > >> > unfortunately are applicable on your good self. I share with you the > >> > link > >> - > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.ptinews.com/news/521987_Militants-attack-cop-post-near-Srinagar--loot-weapons > >> > > >> > I don't doubt the news report. So I rest my case. > >> > > >> > thanks > >> > > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Aditya, > >> >> > >> >> I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI > >> >> would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing > >> >> story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as > well, > >> >> I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could > >> >> kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very > helpful. > >> >> > >> >> And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in my > >> >> reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your > reply > >> >> Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a lot > >> >> about the kind of news coming out of the valley. > >> >> > >> >> Thanks > >> >> Anupam > >> >> > >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> >> > Dear Anupam, > >> >> > > >> >> > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that > >> answer > >> >> your > >> >> > questions? > >> >> > > >> >> > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't > want > >> it > >> >> to > >> >> > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me > >> >> > who > >> >> > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! > >> >> > > >> >> > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or > >> >> 'contradiction' > >> >> > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. > >> >> > > >> >> > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain > >> from > >> >> > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in > useless > >> >> > discussion. > >> >> > > >> >> > thanks > >> >> > > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> > > >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Dear Aditya, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important > >> >> >> news > >> >> >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and > >> >> >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to > >> >> >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you > >> cannot > >> >> >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else > >> >> >> on > >> >> >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not > devalue > >> >> >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am > sorry > >> >> >> I > >> >> >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or > >> >> >> anyone posts it on this list. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -Anupam > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> >> >> > Dear Friends > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be > >> >> >> > of > >> >> >> 'value' > >> >> >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to > >> >> ignore > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it > >> >> >> > names. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take > >> criticism > >> >> >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we > >> move > >> >> >> ahead > >> >> >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is > >> >> >> > it > >> >> >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let > >> them > >> >> >> enjoy > >> >> >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one > >> >> >> > opinion > >> >> >> flow > >> >> >> > in the network. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Dear Rakesh, > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a > >> >> >> >> taste > >> >> for > >> >> >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at > all > >> >> >> >> disputing > >> >> >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course > >> >> >> >> we > >> >> >> should > >> >> >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the > >> >> >> >> corresponding > >> >> >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. > >> That > >> >> is > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of > speech. > >> I > >> >> am > >> >> >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the > criticism > >> is > >> >> >> >> not > >> >> >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> best > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Shuddha > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to > >> understand > >> >> >> >> that > >> >> >> >> all > >> >> >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a > >> >> >> >> single > >> >> >> >> umbrella > >> >> >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. > At > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> same > >> >> >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and > >> >> >> >> hear > >> >> such > >> >> >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India > had > >> >> >> >> chosen > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. > The > >> end > >> >> >> >> result > >> >> >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious > >> >> >> >> fundamentalists > >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We > >> are > >> >> >> >> a > >> >> >> >> nation > >> >> >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such > >> >> >> >> poems > >> >> from > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> freedom of speech point of view. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, > >> objectively. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Rakesh > >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> >> List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> >> >> >> Raqs Media Collective > >> >> >> >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> www.sarai.net > >> >> >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Freelance Writer > >> >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >> subscribe > >> >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> > > >> >> > Freelance Writer > >> >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 > >> >> > > >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe > >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > Freelance Writer > >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 > >> > > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe > >> > in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Writer > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 00:22:46 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:52:46 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested References: Message-ID: <93AE9686F98D4583B1348EA1A891AACC@tara> Thanks Junaid. Point taken. People should have right to self determination. First scenario is that Kashmir becomes a sovereign state. What would you say to those skeptics who are afraid, genuinely or otherwise, that a new country where fundamentalism has enjoyed some welcoming constituency in the past, will become another safe haven for the destructive elements linked to Al qaeda ideology to pursue their destructive agenda. Do you think people are right to be skeptical that Kashmir as a free nation will become like Yeman, or worse, Somalia? My second query, again for my personal information, and it is about the second scenario. I have heard people in the past that Pakistan is lesser evil than India. How do they justify this and do you agree with them? This is an international listbut when it comes to Kashmir, it appears that Kashmir on the Pakistani side does not exist or that there is no military presence. Are the people on Pakistani side free? Best TaraPrakash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junaid" To: "Tara Prakash" Cc: "S. Jabbar" ; "Sarai" Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested Hi Tara, I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the the process and its outcome. Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. Junaid On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash wrote: > Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. > It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" > To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" > Cc: "Sarai" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 > and > included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, > Ladakh, > Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about solutions > then > you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people > and > not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > > >> From: TaraPrakash >> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 >> To: Junaid >> Cc: >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this >> old >> > problem. > Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which >> >> Kashmiris" was > > not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri >> >> nationality, or > > unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just >> >> canceling the > > noise. > JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the >> >> brutal Mujahaddins, in > > their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, >> >> moved to J&K. From > > then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their >> >> homes. Every > > dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women >> >> were told > > to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces >> >> was their > > fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred >> >> and if > > that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being >> >> vocal. > > Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they >> >> Kashmiris? But > > they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. >> >> Aren't they > > Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are >> >> Kashmiris in > > POK free? > Those who are part of National conference or PDP, >> >> aren't they Kashmiris? > > Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the >> >> question still remains which > > Kashmiris? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> >> "Junaid" > > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: >> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: >> >> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > Dear Tara, > > I quote you: "But >> >> isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? > > Which Kashmiris?" End. > > I >> >> absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two > > follow-up >> >> questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones > > that will lead us to >> >> specifics. If anything they will further push us > > into a metaphysics of denial. >> >> I assume you know enough about Kashmir > > and are aware that there is no shortage >> >> of solutions. Indian > > government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a >> >> political issue, > > and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that >> >> remains > > is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The >> >> "right > > solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free >> >> and > > fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives >> >> for > > Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made > it >> >> clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be > > forced down >> >> the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's > > legitimacy and >> >> authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows > > that is, can go to >> >> "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the > > problem). The first step would >> >> be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of > > their problem, that is allow them to >> >> find the right solution with a > > guarantee that it will be accepted. > > The second >> >> question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we > > really keep >> >> telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By > > asking this question, are >> >> you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? > > If you believe that "the people" >> >> have to elect their representatives, > > how can you in the same breath deny the >> >> existence of those same > > people? > > I guess the first "concrete suggestions" >> >> would be the dismantling of > > the draconian military and police apparatus from >> >> Kashmir: i.e. 1. > > remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of >> >> military and > > police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA >> >> and > > Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies > involved >> >> in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. > > Allow Kashmiris to >> >> peacefully express their dissent (remove > > restrictions on free speech and >> >> assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the > > stranglehold that the security agencies >> >> have over the everyday life of > > people through technics of surveillance and >> >> proliferation of threats. > > Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next >> >> ones. At least it > > will show that the Indian government is sincere in its >> >> efforts to > > solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to >> >> tire > > people out. > > Junaid > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash >> >> wrote: >> "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to >> be solved, with the full >> involvement of Kashmiris." >> Agreed. But isn't it >> time to move to specifics. What solution? Which >> Kashmiris? A democratic >> exercise requires people to elect their >> representatives who can talk on >> their behalf. But those who are chosen, >> are >> found to be going "to any >> extent to please their masters in Delhi" >> I don't think the Indian govt or UN >> can talk to every Kashmiri on this >> earth >> for the resolution of the >> problem. >> It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions >> towards >> resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate >> >> people, >> so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a >> climate >> towards >> resolution of the issue. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Junaid" >> To: ; "Junaid" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM >> Subject: >> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >>> Dozens of young boys have >> >> been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >>> >>> laws over the last few weeks. >> >> The charges that have been filed against >>> >>> them range from "waging war >> >> against the state" to defiling "state >>> >>> honor". In recent months Indian >> >> military and police commanders have >>> >>> described protests in Kashmir as >> >> "agitational terrorism" and >>> >>> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify >> >> violent clampdown on >>> >>> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 >> >> people, mostly >>> >>> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured >> >> by >>> >>> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >>> >> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >>> >>> thousands of >> >> people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >>> >>> permanent physical >> >> disabilities. The police authorities have banned >>> >>> any peaceful assembly of >> >> people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >>> >>> other towns have reported >> >> police brutalities. Even the villages are >>> >>> not being spared. Only yesterday, >> >> mourning villagers were attacked by >>> >>> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South >> >> Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >>> >>> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most >> >> of the injuries were inflicted >>> >>> above the waist showing an intention to >> >> kill. >>> >>> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, >> >> but >>> >>> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel >> >> dimension. >>> >>> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline >> >> and >>> >>> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >>> >> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >>> >>> deceive >> >> its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >>> >>> in Azad >> >> Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >>> >>> has been there >> >> for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >>> >>> back every few years >> >> to earn brownie points. >>> >>> National Conference government which has proved >> >> its inability to >>> >>> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't >> >> even remove >>> >>> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has >> >> sought to >>> >>> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent >> >> to >>> >>> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >>> >> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >>> >> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >>> >>> Kashmir >> >> police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >>> >>> perhaps in a >> >> bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >>> >>> army's help. >>> >>> >> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >>> >>> from >> >> the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >>> >>> time, the >> >> conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >>> >>> with >> >> Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >>> >>> inhuman >> >> tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >>> >>> stop human >> >> rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >>> >>> Kashmir is a >> >> political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >>> >>> involvement of >> >> Kashmiris. >>> >>> _____________________ >>> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K >> >> gov; >>> >>> Riyaz Wani >>> >>> >>> >> >> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 >> >>> >>> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >>> >> Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or life >>> >>> in >> >> jail. >>> >>> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against >> >> eight >>> >>> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >>> >> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >>> >>> 121 of >> >> CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >>> >>> Department >> >> told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >>> >>> PSAs against ł20 >> >> more such youths˛. >>> >>> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court >> >> on Monday. Police >>> >>> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon >> >> granted by Judge >>> >>> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told >> >> the court, >>> >>> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and >> >> security >>> >>> forces. >>> >>> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said >> >> the youths were held >>> >>> in random raids across the city and were not involved >> >> in >>> >>> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of >> >> CrPC. >>> >>> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety >> >> Act >>> >>> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >>> >> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >>> >> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >>> >>> protests >> >> over the death of two women in Shopian. >>> >>> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said >> >> he was not in a position to give łthe >>> >>> exact number of youths˛ booked under >> >> PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am >>> >>> out of station and donąt have the exact >> >> number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian >>> >>> Express. >>> Police say waging war against >> >> country, judge not impressed >>> >>> _____________ >>> Police say waging war >> >> against country, judge not impressed >>> >>> Peerzada Ashiq >>> >> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >>> >>> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted >> >> Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >>> >>> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows >> >> of chairs. łYes madam. >>> >>> Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 >> >> jostled youth with red >>> >>> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >>> >>> This is >> >> no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >>> >>> in downtown >> >> Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >>> >>> police presented >> >> them before the court on Monday for extending their >>> >>> police remand. But >> >> after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >>> >>> boys to judicial remand >> >> for 15 days. >>> >>> łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in >> >> advance?˛ >>> >>> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. >> >> łThrough >>> >>> reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. >>> >>> łHow >> >> is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these >>> >>> reliable >> >> sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >>> >>> officer, looking >> >> at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, >>> >>> and involved for the >> >> last five years.˛ >>> >>> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when >> >> Zahid, one of the >>> >>> accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time >> >> we are in the >>> >>> lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, >> >> who was on >>> >>> the bike when the police arrested him. >>> >>> The boy, wearing a >> >> pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >>> >>> joined by others in the >> >> room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >>> >>> requesting them to wipe tears >> >> and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be >>> >>> done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief >> >> Minister Omar Abdullah told the >>> >>> media we are launching a crackdown against >> >> stone-pelters, the police >>> >>> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >>> >>> >> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >>> >>> heavy >> >> chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >>> >>> the state and >> >> insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >>> >>> life imprisonment. >> >> The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >>> >>> and were presented >> >> before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >>> >>> Lawyer Joo contested >> >> that the police cannot impose the waging a war >>> >>> against the nation unless a >> >> magistrate has done an investigation in a >>> >>> case and the police cannot do it >> >> on their own. >>> >>> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a >> >> row, their >>> >>> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their >> >> innocence: >>> >>> łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and >> >> arrested >>> >>> us,˛ they said. >>> >>> While a policeman shouted back: łThey have >> >> snatched our peace.˛ >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >>> Critiques & >> >> Collaborations >>> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> with >>> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> List archive: >> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > ______________________ >> >> ___________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> >> city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To >> >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List >> >> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Fri Feb 19 02:34:05 2010 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:04:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: <93AE9686F98D4583B1348EA1A891AACC@tara> Message-ID: <744427.48288.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Taraprakash , Here is a recent article about "Azad" Kashmir in Dawn. http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/16-azad-kashmir-today-hs-05 Thanks Rahul --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Tara Prakash wrote: > From: Tara Prakash > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > To: "Junaid" > Cc: "Sarai" > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 12:22 AM > Thanks Junaid. Point taken. People > should have right to self determination. > First scenario is that Kashmir becomes a sovereign state. > What would you say > to those skeptics who are afraid, genuinely or otherwise, > that a new country > where fundamentalism has enjoyed some welcoming > constituency  in the past, > will become another safe haven for the destructive elements > linked to Al > qaeda ideology to pursue their destructive agenda. Do you > think people are > right to be skeptical that Kashmir as a free nation will > become like Yeman, > or worse, Somalia? > > My second query, again for my personal information, and it > is about the > second scenario. I have heard people in the past that > Pakistan is lesser > evil than India. How do they justify this and do you agree > with them? This > is an international listbut when it comes to Kashmir, it > appears that > Kashmir on the Pakistani side does not exist or that there > is no military > presence. Are the people on Pakistani side free? > > > Best > TaraPrakash > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Junaid" > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: "S. Jabbar" ; > "Sarai" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > Hi Tara, > > I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a > number of > parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have > let > ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to > paralyze > our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will > settle by > itself. These are man-made problems and need human and > humane > solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" > determine the fate > of a people. These issues can't be left to fester > perpetually. Even if > we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional > referendums > (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded > like more > hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present > "muddlings." > > Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India > and > Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their > lands) who > don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries > need to let > Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of > either country) > be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to > create > conditions in which people can freely and without fear > discuss, > negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable > solution. > When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within > 1947 > Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people > to solve > issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be > to initiate > a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of > international > observers to hold elections to choose representatives of > the people > who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, > and > negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The > whole > thing can be conducted under international guarantees to > secure the > the process and its outcome. > > Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere > efforts on > the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and > aspect of > this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not > made up of > states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories > and > aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the > illusions and > the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in > us. > > Junaid > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash > wrote: > > Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we > make it out to be. > > It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am > waiting. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" > > To: "TaraPrakash" ; > "Junaid" > > Cc: "Sarai" > > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys > arrested > > > > > > The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir > as it existed in 1947 > > and > > included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, > Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, > > Ladakh, > > Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If > you talk about solutions > > then > > you really ought to be talking about the aspirations > of all these people > > and > > not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > > > > > >> From: TaraPrakash > >> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 > >> To: Junaid > >> Cc: > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys > arrested > >> > >> Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will > be able to solve this > >> old > >> > > problem. > > Just for the record, the intent of the second question > "Which > >> > >> Kashmiris" was > > > > not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri > >> > >> nationality, or > > > > unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, > or just > >> > >> canceling the > > > > noise. > > JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before > the > >> > >> brutal Mujahaddins, in > > > > their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, > >> > >> moved to J&K. From > > > > then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in > their > >> > >> homes. Every > > > > dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were > murdered. Women > >> > >> were told > > > > to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on > their faces > >> > >> was their > > > > fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs > were massacred > >> > >> and if > > > > that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed > for being > >> > >> vocal. > > > > Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. > Aren't they > >> > >> Kashmiris? But > > > > they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad > Kashmir. > >> > >> Aren't they > > > > Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian > government? Are > >> > >> Kashmiris in > > > > POK free? > > Those who are part of National conference or PDP, > >> > >> aren't they Kashmiris? > > > > Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the > >> > >> question still remains which > > > > Kashmiris? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > >> > >> "Junaid" > > > > To: "Tara Prakash" > > Cc: > >> > >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM > > Subject: Re: > >> > >> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > > > > Dear Tara, > > > > I quote you: "But > >> > >> isn't it time to move to specifics. What > solution? > > > > Which Kashmiris?" End. > > > > I > >> > >> absolutely agree that it is time to move to > specifics. But your two > > > > follow-up > >> > >> questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't > the ones > > > > that will lead us to > >> > >> specifics. If anything they will further push us > > > > into a metaphysics of denial. > >> > >> I assume you know enough about Kashmir > > > > and are aware that there is no shortage > >> > >> of solutions. Indian > > > > government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a > >> > >> political issue, > > > > and they have convinced its citizens that the only > issue that > >> > >> remains > > > > is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's > resistance. The > >> > >> "right > > > > solutions" emerge in a democratic process of > engagement in a free > >> > >> and > > > > fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" > representatives > >> > >> for > > > > Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, > which has made > > it > >> > >> clear again that a democracy stripped of its > substance cannot be > > > > forced down > >> > >> the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of > state's > > > > legitimacy and > >> > >> authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India > allows > > > > that is, can go to > >> > >> "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the > > > > problem). The first step would > >> > >> be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of > > > > their problem, that is allow them to > >> > >> find the right solution with a > > > > guarantee that it will be accepted. > > > > The second > >> > >> question is a little mischievous--"Which > Kashmiris!" Can we > > > > really keep > >> > >> telling a suffering people that they don't exist? > By > > > > asking this question, are > >> > >> you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? > > > > If you believe that "the people" > >> > >> have to elect their representatives, > > > > how can you in the same breath deny the > >> > >> existence of those same > > > > people? > > > > I guess the first "concrete suggestions" > >> > >> would be the dismantling of > > > > the draconian military and police apparatus from > >> > >> Kashmir: i.e. 1. > > > > remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of > >> > >> military and > > > > police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws > like AFSPA > >> > >> and > > > > Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to > security agencies > > involved > >> > >> in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from > jails; 4. > > > > Allow Kashmiris to > >> > >> peacefully express their dissent (remove > > > > restrictions on free speech and > >> > >> assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the > > > > stranglehold that the security agencies > >> > >> have over the everyday life of > > > > people through technics of surveillance and > >> > >> proliferation of threats. > > > > Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next > >> > >> ones. At least it > > > > will show that the Indian government is sincere in > its > >> > >> efforts to > > > > solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, > hoping to > >> > >> tire > > > > people out. > > > > Junaid > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash > >> > >> > wrote: > >> "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to > >> be solved, with the full > >> involvement of Kashmiris." > >> Agreed. But isn't it > >> time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > >> Kashmiris? A democratic > >> exercise requires people to elect their > >> representatives who can talk on > >> their behalf. But those who are chosen, > >> are > >> found to be going "to any > >> extent to please their masters in Delhi" > >> I don't think the Indian govt or UN > >> can talk to every Kashmiri on this > >> earth > >> for the resolution of the > >> problem. > >> It will help people like me if there are some > concrete suggestions > >> towards > >> resolution of the issue. One way of garnering > support is to educate > >> > >> people, > >> so that they can start suggesting their leaders > and build a > >> climate > >> towards > >> resolution of the issue. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Junaid" > >> To: ; > "Junaid" > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > >> Subject: > >> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > >> > >> > >>> Dozens of young boys have > >> > >> been arrested across Kashmir under draconian > >>> > >>> laws over the last few weeks. > >> > >> The charges that have been filed against > >>> > >>> them range from "waging war > >> > >> against the state" to defiling "state > >>> > >>> honor". In recent months Indian > >> > >> military and police commanders have > >>> > >>> described protests in Kashmir as > >> > >> "agitational terrorism" and > >>> > >>> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify > >> > >> violent clampdown on > >>> > >>> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period > around 8 > >> > >> people, mostly > >>> > >>> teenagers, have been either shot to death or > fatally injured > >> > >> by > >>> > >>> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over > the last two years the > >>> > >> number of dead in shootings is more than a > hundred. Meanwhile > >>> > >>> thousands of > >> > >> people have been injured. Many of them will be > left with > >>> > >>> permanent physical > >> > >> disabilities. The police authorities have banned > >>> > >>> any peaceful assembly of > >> > >> people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and > >>> > >>> other towns have reported > >> > >> police brutalities. Even the villages are > >>> > >>> not being spared. Only yesterday, > >> > >> mourning villagers were attacked by > >>> > >>> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South > >> > >> Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured > >>> > >>> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most > >> > >> of the injuries were inflicted > >>> > >>> above the waist showing an intention to > >> > >> kill. > >>> > >>> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on > for many years now, > >> > >> but > >>> > >>> in the last two years it has acquired a > particularly cruel > >> > >> dimension. > >>> > >>> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is > meant to discipline > >> > >> and > >>> > >>> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the > same time, the Indian > >>> > >> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence > building measures to > >>> > >>> deceive > >> > >> its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow > Kashmiris > >>> > >>> in Azad > >> > >> Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This > surrender policy > >>> > >>> has been there > >> > >> for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and > brought > >>> > >>> back every few years > >> > >> to earn brownie points. > >>> > >>> National Conference government which has > proved > >> > >> its inability to > >>> > >>> function without authorization from New Delhi, > and can't > >> > >> even remove > >>> > >>> an erring official without Delhi's explicit > approval, has > >> > >> sought to > >>> > >>> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will > go to any extent > >> > >> to > >>> > >>> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar > Abdullah is seen begging for > >>> > >> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has > reinvigorated the cruel > >>> > >> police apparatus his father put into place in > mid-1990's. CRPF and > >>> > >>> Kashmir > >> > >> police has increased their level of savagery in > recent months, > >>> > >>> perhaps in a > >> > >> bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without > Indian > >>> > >>> army's help. > >>> > >>> > >> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news > from Kashmir (apart > >>> > >>> from > >> > >> the few and far in between stories, like the ones > below). It is > >>> > >>> time, the > >> > >> conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a > solidarity > >>> > >>> with > >> > >> Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about > Indian state's > >>> > >>> inhuman > >> > >> tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their > government to > >>> > >>> stop human > >> > >> rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the > fact that > >>> > >>> Kashmir is a > >> > >> political issue that needs to be solved, with the > full > >>> > >>> involvement of > >> > >> Kashmiris. > >>> > >>> _____________________ > >>> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K > >> > >> gov; > >>> > >>> Riyaz Wani > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 > >> > >>> > >>> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to > arrest stone-pelters for > >>> > >> Owaging war against the stateą, a crime > punishable with death or life > >>> > >>> in > >> > >> jail. > >>> > >>> The state has already slapped the Public > Safety Act against > >> > >> eight > >>> > >>> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years > old, over the past week > >>> > >> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being > tried under section > >>> > >>> 121 of > >> > >> CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in > the state Home > >>> > >>> Department > >> > >> told The Indian Express that the government was > ready with > >>> > >>> PSAs against ł20 > >> > >> more such youths˛. > >>> > >>> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar > Court > >> > >> on Monday. Police > >>> > >>> sought their remand for eight days, which was > soon > >> > >> granted by Judge > >>> > >>> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating > officer told > >> > >> the court, > >>> > >>> were directly involved in pelting stones at > police and > >> > >> security > >>> > >>> forces. > >>> > >>> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo > said > >> > >> the youths were held > >>> > >>> in random raids across the city and were not > involved > >> > >> in > >>> > >>> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth > under Section 121 of > >> > >> CrPC. > >>> > >>> J&K first started booking stone-pelters > under the Public Safety > >> > >> Act > >>> > >>> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. > The first person to be > >>> > >> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. > Though he was released > >>> > >> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June > last year during > >>> > >>> protests > >> > >> over the death of two women in Shopian. > >>> > >>> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said > >> > >> he was not in a position to give łthe > >>> > >>> exact number of youths˛ booked under > >> > >> PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am > >>> > >>> out of station and donąt have the exact > >> > >> number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian > >>> > >>> Express. > >>> Police say waging war against > >> > >> country, judge not impressed > >>> > >>> _____________ > >>> Police say waging war > >> > >> against country, judge not impressed > >>> > >>> Peerzada Ashiq > >>> > >> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com > >>> > >>> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted > >> > >> Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a > >>> > >>> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows > >> > >> of chairs. łYes madam. > >>> > >>> Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among > 16 > >> > >> jostled youth with red > >>> > >>> cheeks and red hands because of cold. > >>> > >>> This is > >> > >> no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys > arrested on Sunday > >>> > >>> in downtown > >> > >> Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at > policemen. The > >>> > >>> police presented > >> > >> them before the court on Monday for extending > their > >>> > >>> police remand. But > >> > >> after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent > the > >>> > >>> boys to judicial remand > >> > >> for 15 days. > >>> > >>> łHow did you know all the names of the > arrested youth in > >> > >> advance?˛ > >>> > >>> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer > of the police. > >> > >> łThrough > >>> > >>> reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation > officer. > >>> > >>> łHow > >> > >> is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these > boys. Who are these > >>> > >>> reliable > >> > >> sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the > investigation > >>> > >>> officer, looking > >> > >> at the floor, said: łThey are active stone > throwers, > >>> > >>> and involved for the > >> > >> last five years.˛ > >>> > >>> There was sudden commotion in the court room, > when > >> > >> Zahid, one of the > >>> > >>> accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the > first time > >> > >> we are in the > >>> > >>> lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and > a school-goer, > >> > >> who was on > >>> > >>> the bike when the police arrested him. > >>> > >>> The boy, wearing a > >> > >> pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are > >>> > >>> joined by others in the > >> > >> room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, > >>> > >>> requesting them to wipe tears > >> > >> and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be > >>> > >>> done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief > >> > >> Minister Omar Abdullah told the > >>> > >>> media we are launching a crackdown against > >> > >> stone-pelters, the police > >>> > >>> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. > >>> > >>> > >> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and > brought to the court in > >>> > >>> heavy > >> > >> chains --- are facing the charges like the waging > war against > >>> > >>> the state and > >> > >> insulting the national honour. The punishment > includes > >>> > >>> life imprisonment. > >> > >> The boys have been arrested from downtown > Srinagar > >>> > >>> and were presented > >> > >> before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. > >>> > >>> Lawyer Joo contested > >> > >> that the police cannot impose the waging a war > >>> > >>> against the nation unless a > >> > >> magistrate has done an investigation in a > >>> > >>> case and the police cannot do it > >> > >> on their own. > >>> > >>> While the weeping boys in chains left the > court room in a > >> > >> row, their > >>> > >>> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep > pleading their > >> > >> innocence: > >>> > >>> łWe were not involved. They let go who do > stone pelting and > >> > >> arrested > >>> > >>> us,˛ they said. > >>> > >>> While a policeman shouted back: łThey have > >> > >> snatched our peace.˛ > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > >>> > >>> Critiques & > >> > >> Collaborations > >>> > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > >> with > >>> > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: > >> > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > >>> List archive: > >> > >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > > > > ______________________ > >> > >> ___________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > >> city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > >> > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To > >> > >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List > >> > >> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 09:28:00 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:28:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Message-ID: Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take it seriously. ------- Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Praveen Swami Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group may have carried out German Bakery bombing PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the rogue military officer with rose petals. Last week’s bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly story of Abhinav Bharat — the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped found — back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik began. In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a Hindutva group. Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved in Abhinav Bharat’s terror campaign have never been held. Jatin Chatterjee — better known by his alias Swami Asimanand — is thought to be hiding out in Gujarat’s Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat’s key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. Founded in the summer of 2006, Abhinav Bharat was set up as an educational trust with Himani Savarkar — daughter of Gopal Godse, brother of Mahatma Gandhi’s assassin — as its chairperson. But, documents filed by Maharashtra prosecutors show, members of the group were soon involved in discussing armed activity. In June 2007, Purohit allegedly suggested that the time had come to target Muslims through terrorist attacks — a plea others in Abhinav Bharat rejected. But, the evidence gathered by the police suggests, many within the group were determined to press ahead. At a meeting in April 2008, key suspects including Madhya Pradesh-based Hindutva activist Pragnya Singh Thakur and Jammu cleric Sudhakar Dwivedi, also known as Amritananda Dev Tirtha, met Purohit to hammer out the Malegaon plot. Explosives were later procured by Purohit, and handed over to Kalsangra in early August 2008. Abhinav Bharat’s long-term aims, though, went far beyond targeting Muslims: its members wanted to overthrow the Indian state and replace it with a totalitarian, theocratic order. A draft constitution prepared by Abhinav Bharat spoke of a single-party system, presided over by a leader who “shall be followed at all levels without questioning the authority.” It called for the creation of an “academy of indoctrinization [sic.].” The concluding comment was stark: “People whose ideas are detrimental to Hindu Rashtra should be killed.” Purohit’s plans to bring about a Hindutva state were often fantastical. He claimed, the prosecutors say, to have secured an appointment with Nepal’s King Gyanendra in 2006 and 2007 to press for his support for the planned Hindutva revolution. Nepal, he went on, was willing to train Abhinav Bharat’s cadre, and supply it with assault rifles. Israel’s government, he said, had agreed to grant members of the group military support and, if needed, political asylum. Many believe that Abhinav Bharat carried out many attacks earlier attributed to jihadist groups — notable among them, the bombing of the Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad in May 2007, and a subsequent attack on the famous shrine at Ajmer. Despite persistent questioning of Abhinav Bharat cadre, though, the investigators have not been able to link the group to the attacks. Matters are complicated by the fact that some of the operations attributed to Abhinav Bharat may not have had much to do with the group — even though its leading luminaries claimed responsibility for the attacks. For example, Purohit allegedly claimed to confidants that the attack was carried out by the Dewas-based Hindutva terrorist Sunil Joshi, who was murdered in December 2007. But the United States Treasury Department later imposed sanctions on Lashkar-e-Taiba activist Arif Kasmani — a Karachi-based jihadist with close links to the Taliban and al-Qaeda — for financing the attack. In January this year, Pakistan’s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik went further, admitting that “there were some Pakistan-based Islamists who had been hired to carry out the Samjhauta Express attack.” Judging by recent Hindutva terror attacks, like last year’s bombings in Goa, it is unclear if they still have the capabilities to mount a sophisticated attack of the kind seen in Pune. Few investigators believe that the organisations — or other Hindutva cells — mounted the operation. “Still”, says one Maharashtra police official involved in investigating both Hindutva and jihadist attacks, “you can’t help wondering — what if?” Signs are the investigation into the bombing of the German Bakery will take time. All that investigators have by way of suspects are three men recorded holding brief meetings before the blast by a poor-quality closed-circuit television camera. From the videotape, it is unclear if the men had anything to do with the attack. The longer the investigation takes, the more time conspiracy theories and speculation will have to proliferate — likely deepening the communal fissures the bombing is already opening up. http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/19/stories/2010021961571000.htm From justjunaid at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 10:44:33 2010 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:14:33 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: <93AE9686F98D4583B1348EA1A891AACC@tara> References: <93AE9686F98D4583B1348EA1A891AACC@tara> Message-ID: Tara, I share some of your concerns. I too don't want Kashmir to slide into extremism. But as it is, it is happening anyway as India rules it; which kind of puts paid to the thought that Indian rule will somehow stem Kashmir from becoming Yemen (not that Kashmir is becoming Yemen, countries don't become each other, they have their own histories, their own politico-economic-geographic reasons, their own unique mixtures of ideas about the world, and also Yemen is superior to Kashmir in many many different ways). I think growth of religious extremism is affecting so many countries around the world and I have yet to come across any convincing, general, understanding for it. My hope is that religious extremism is the last sigh of the ages bygone than a sign of things to come. And then religious extremism is not a reason why a people can't be free, or why countries shouldn't exist. In a way the fact that a people aren't free is a big reason why religious extremism takes hold. Religious extremists hijack a people's genuine and legitimate aspirations for freedom. The occupiers often like this scenario for they can project to the world that the national liberation struggle is actually a struggle to establish an exclusivist, dominance of the extremists. The only answer to this commingling of extremist-occupier mutual interest is solidarity with progressive forces of national liberation. In Kashmir the progressive forces have always been a common target for India and Pakistan, and have over the years been subdued in many ways, and largely because of lack of solidarity from progressive forces in India and Pakistan, many of who still speak in a language authorized and allowed by the nationalist discourses in their respective states. To your second question, the one which is for your personal information, I don't think India or Pakistan are "evil" in themselves. But it is my belief that as the rational bureaucratic order in the states crystallizes they become even more irrational than ever, and it seems states like to "play" with power, like small kids, they want to test its limits, to see what else it can do, how much it can dominate other people, how much it can torture them, how much can it fool its own citizens, how much can it make them speak its words, till citizens become mini clones of the state. There is a seductive nature to this power, which continuously wants to take things to the edge, to hold out till the end. But it is always a big gamble. I have been thinking about this one question a lot: Why would any Indian really care if Kashmir was under India's rule or not? What if Indian tourists were guaranteed that their travels to Kashmir will not be unnecessarily restricted? And their access to pilgrimage sites would in no case be blocked? That a free Kashmir will be friendly to all its neighbors? That it will not allow its soil to be used against its neighbors? Isn't that enough "ransom" you can demand for returning a people their freedom? I don't see much difference between India and Pakistan. They are both poor and muscular, both are in real deep shit. But since many Indians don't like to be "hyphenated" with Pakistan these days, and like to be seen as competitors of China, let me say that China too is poor and muscular, and in deep shit. Junaid On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Tara Prakash wrote: > Thanks Junaid. Point taken. People should have right to self determination. > First scenario is that Kashmir becomes a sovereign state. What would you say > to those skeptics who are afraid, genuinely or otherwise, that a new country > where fundamentalism has enjoyed some welcoming constituency  in the past, > will become another safe haven for the destructive elements linked to Al > qaeda ideology to pursue their destructive agenda. Do you think people are > right to be skeptical that Kashmir as a free nation will become like Yeman, > or worse, Somalia? > > My second query, again for my personal information, and it is about the > second scenario. I have heard people in the past that Pakistan is lesser > evil than India. How do they justify this and do you agree with them? This > is an international listbut when it comes to Kashmir, it appears that > Kashmir on the Pakistani side does not exist or that there is no military > presence. Are the people on Pakistani side free? > > > Best > TaraPrakash > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junaid" > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: "S. Jabbar" ; "Sarai" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > Hi Tara, > > I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of > parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let > ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze > our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by > itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane > solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate > of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if > we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums > (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more > hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." > > Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and > Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who > don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let > Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) > be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create > conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, > negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. > When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 > Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve > issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate > a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international > observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people > who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and > negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole > thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the > the process and its outcome. > > Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on > the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of > this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of > states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and > aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and > the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. > > Junaid > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash wrote: >> >> Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. >> It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" >> To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" >> Cc: "Sarai" >> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >> The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 >> and >> included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, >> Ladakh, >> Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about solutions >> then >> you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people >> and >> not simply 'which Kashmiris.' >> >> >>> From: TaraPrakash >>> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 >>> To: Junaid >>> Cc: >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >>> >>> Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this >>> old >>> >> problem. >> Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which >>> >>> Kashmiris" was >> >> not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri >>> >>> nationality, or >> >> unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just >>> >>> canceling the >> >> noise. >> JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the >>> >>> brutal Mujahaddins, in >> >> their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, >>> >>> moved to J&K. From >> >> then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their >>> >>> homes. Every >> >> dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women >>> >>> were told >> >> to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces >>> >>> was their >> >> fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred >>> >>> and if >> >> that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being >>> >>> vocal. >> >> Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they >>> >>> Kashmiris? But >> >> they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. >>> >>> Aren't they >> >> Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are >>> >>> Kashmiris in >> >> POK free? >> Those who are part of National conference or PDP, >>> >>> aren't they Kashmiris? >> >> Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the >>> >>> question still remains which >> >> Kashmiris? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> >>> "Junaid" >> >> To: "Tara Prakash" >> Cc: >>> >>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM >> Subject: Re: >>> >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >> Dear Tara, >> >> I quote you: "But >>> >>> isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? >> >> Which Kashmiris?" End. >> >> I >>> >>> absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two >> >> follow-up >>> >>> questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones >> >> that will lead us to >>> >>> specifics. If anything they will further push us >> >> into a metaphysics of denial. >>> >>> I assume you know enough about Kashmir >> >> and are aware that there is no shortage >>> >>> of solutions. Indian >> >> government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a >>> >>> political issue, >> >> and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that >>> >>> remains >> >> is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The >>> >>> "right >> >> solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free >>> >>> and >> >> fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives >>> >>> for >> >> Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made >> it >>> >>> clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be >> >> forced down >>> >>> the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's >> >> legitimacy and >>> >>> authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows >> >> that is, can go to >>> >>> "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the >> >> problem). The first step would >>> >>> be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of >> >> their problem, that is allow them to >>> >>> find the right solution with a >> >> guarantee that it will be accepted. >> >> The second >>> >>> question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we >> >> really keep >>> >>> telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By >> >> asking this question, are >>> >>> you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? >> >> If you believe that "the people" >>> >>> have to elect their representatives, >> >> how can you in the same breath deny the >>> >>> existence of those same >> >> people? >> >> I guess the first "concrete suggestions" >>> >>> would be the dismantling of >> >> the draconian military and police apparatus from >>> >>> Kashmir: i.e. 1. >> >> remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of >>> >>> military and >> >> police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA >>> >>> and >> >> Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies >> involved >>> >>> in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. >> >> Allow Kashmiris to >>> >>> peacefully express their dissent (remove >> >> restrictions on free speech and >>> >>> assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the >> >> stranglehold that the security agencies >>> >>> have over the everyday life of >> >> people through technics of surveillance and >>> >>> proliferation of threats. >> >> Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next >>> >>> ones. At least it >> >> will show that the Indian government is sincere in its >>> >>> efforts to >> >> solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to >>> >>> tire >> >> people out. >> >> Junaid >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash >>> >>> wrote: >>> "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to >>> be solved, with the full >>> involvement of Kashmiris." >>> Agreed. But isn't it >>> time to move to specifics. What solution? Which >>> Kashmiris? A democratic >>> exercise requires people to elect their >>> representatives who can talk on >>> their behalf. But those who are chosen, >>> are >>> found to be going "to any >>> extent to please their masters in Delhi" >>> I don't think the Indian govt or UN >>> can talk to every Kashmiri on this >>> earth >>> for the resolution of the >>> problem. >>> It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions >>> towards >>> resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate >>> >>> people, >>> so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a >>> climate >>> towards >>> resolution of the issue. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Junaid" >>> To: ; "Junaid" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM >>> Subject: >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >>> >>> >>>> Dozens of young boys have >>> >>> been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >>>> >>>> laws over the last few weeks. >>> >>> The charges that have been filed against >>>> >>>> them range from "waging war >>> >>> against the state" to defiling "state >>>> >>>> honor". In recent months Indian >>> >>> military and police commanders have >>>> >>>> described protests in Kashmir as >>> >>> "agitational terrorism" and >>>> >>>> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify >>> >>> violent clampdown on >>>> >>>> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 >>> >>> people, mostly >>>> >>>> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured >>> >>> by >>>> >>>> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >>>> >>> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >>>> >>>> thousands of >>> >>> people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >>>> >>>> permanent physical >>> >>> disabilities. The police authorities have banned >>>> >>>> any peaceful assembly of >>> >>> people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >>>> >>>> other towns have reported >>> >>> police brutalities. Even the villages are >>>> >>>> not being spared. Only yesterday, >>> >>> mourning villagers were attacked by >>>> >>>> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South >>> >>> Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >>>> >>>> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most >>> >>> of the injuries were inflicted >>>> >>>> above the waist showing an intention to >>> >>> kill. >>>> >>>> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, >>> >>> but >>>> >>>> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel >>> >>> dimension. >>>> >>>> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline >>> >>> and >>>> >>>> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >>>> >>> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >>>> >>>> deceive >>> >>> its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >>>> >>>> in Azad >>> >>> Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >>>> >>>> has been there >>> >>> for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >>>> >>>> back every few years >>> >>> to earn brownie points. >>>> >>>> National Conference government which has proved >>> >>> its inability to >>>> >>>> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't >>> >>> even remove >>>> >>>> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has >>> >>> sought to >>>> >>>> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent >>> >>> to >>>> >>>> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >>>> >>> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >>>> >>> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >>>> >>>> Kashmir >>> >>> police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >>>> >>>> perhaps in a >>> >>> bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >>>> >>>> army's help. >>>> >>>> >>> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >>>> >>>> from >>> >>> the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >>>> >>>> time, the >>> >>> conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >>>> >>>> with >>> >>> Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >>>> >>>> inhuman >>> >>> tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >>>> >>>> stop human >>> >>> rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >>>> >>>> Kashmir is a >>> >>> political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >>>> >>>> involvement of >>> >>> Kashmiris. >>>> >>>> _____________________ >>>> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K >>> >>> gov; >>>> >>>> Riyaz Wani >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 >>> >>>> >>>> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >>>> >>> Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or life >>>> >>>> in >>> >>> jail. >>>> >>>> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against >>> >>> eight >>>> >>>> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >>>> >>> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >>>> >>>> 121 of >>> >>> CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >>>> >>>> Department >>> >>> told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >>>> >>>> PSAs against ł20 >>> >>> more such youths˛. >>>> >>>> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court >>> >>> on Monday. Police >>>> >>>> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon >>> >>> granted by Judge >>>> >>>> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told >>> >>> the court, >>>> >>>> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and >>> >>> security >>>> >>>> forces. >>>> >>>> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said >>> >>> the youths were held >>>> >>>> in random raids across the city and were not involved >>> >>> in >>>> >>>> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of >>> >>> CrPC. >>>> >>>> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety >>> >>> Act >>>> >>>> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >>>> >>> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >>>> >>> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >>>> >>>> protests >>> >>> over the death of two women in Shopian. >>>> >>>> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said >>> >>> he was not in a position to give łthe >>>> >>>> exact number of youths˛ booked under >>> >>> PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am >>>> >>>> out of station and donąt have the exact >>> >>> number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian >>>> >>>> Express. >>>> Police say waging war against >>> >>> country, judge not impressed >>>> >>>> _____________ >>>> Police say waging war >>> >>> against country, judge not impressed >>>> >>>> Peerzada Ashiq >>>> >>> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >>>> >>>> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted >>> >>> Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >>>> >>>> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows >>> >>> of chairs. łYes madam. >>>> >>>> Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 >>> >>> jostled youth with red >>>> >>>> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >>>> >>>> This is >>> >>> no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >>>> >>>> in downtown >>> >>> Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >>>> >>>> police presented >>> >>> them before the court on Monday for extending their >>>> >>>> police remand. But >>> >>> after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >>>> >>>> boys to judicial remand >>> >>> for 15 days. >>>> >>>> łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in >>> >>> advance?˛ >>>> >>>> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. >>> >>> łThrough >>>> >>>> reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. >>>> >>>> łHow >>> >>> is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these >>>> >>>> reliable >>> >>> sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >>>> >>>> officer, looking >>> >>> at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, >>>> >>>> and involved for the >>> >>> last five years.˛ >>>> >>>> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when >>> >>> Zahid, one of the >>>> >>>> accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time >>> >>> we are in the >>>> >>>> lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, >>> >>> who was on >>>> >>>> the bike when the police arrested him. >>>> >>>> The boy, wearing a >>> >>> pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >>>> >>>> joined by others in the >>> >>> room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >>>> >>>> requesting them to wipe tears >>> >>> and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be >>>> >>>> done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief >>> >>> Minister Omar Abdullah told the >>>> >>>> media we are launching a crackdown against >>> >>> stone-pelters, the police >>>> >>>> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >>>> >>>> >>> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >>>> >>>> heavy >>> >>> chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >>>> >>>> the state and >>> >>> insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >>>> >>>> life imprisonment. >>> >>> The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >>>> >>>> and were presented >>> >>> before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >>>> >>>> Lawyer Joo contested >>> >>> that the police cannot impose the waging a war >>>> >>>> against the nation unless a >>> >>> magistrate has done an investigation in a >>>> >>>> case and the police cannot do it >>> >>> on their own. >>>> >>>> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a >>> >>> row, their >>>> >>>> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their >>> >>> innocence: >>>> >>>> łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and >>> >>> arrested >>>> >>>> us,˛ they said. >>>> >>>> While a policeman shouted back: łThey have >>> >>> snatched our peace.˛ >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> >>>> Critiques & >>> >>> Collaborations >>>> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> >>> with >>>> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >>>> List archive: >>> >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> ______________________ >>> >>> ___________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> >>> city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >>> >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To >>> >>> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List >>> >>> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > > From aliens at dataone.in Fri Feb 19 11:38:30 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:38:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cab129$f5cc41a0$e164c4e0$@in> Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want to divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as sleeper cell. It’s a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take it seriously. ------- Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Praveen Swami Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group may have carried out German Bakery bombing PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the rogue military officer with rose petals. Last week’s bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly story of Abhinav Bharat — the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped found — back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik began. In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a Hindutva group. Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved in Abhinav Bharat’s terror campaign have never been held. Jatin Chatterjee — better known by his alias Swami Asimanand — is thought to be hiding out in Gujarat’s Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat’s key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. Founded in the summer of 2006, Abhinav Bharat was set up as an educational trust with Himani Savarkar — daughter of Gopal Godse, brother of Mahatma Gandhi’s assassin — as its chairperson. But, documents filed by Maharashtra prosecutors show, members of the group were soon involved in discussing armed activity. In June 2007, Purohit allegedly suggested that the time had come to target Muslims through terrorist attacks — a plea others in Abhinav Bharat rejected. But, the evidence gathered by the police suggests, many within the group were determined to press ahead. At a meeting in April 2008, key suspects including Madhya Pradesh-based Hindutva activist Pragnya Singh Thakur and Jammu cleric Sudhakar Dwivedi, also known as Amritananda Dev Tirtha, met Purohit to hammer out the Malegaon plot. Explosives were later procured by Purohit, and handed over to Kalsangra in early August 2008. Abhinav Bharat’s long-term aims, though, went far beyond targeting Muslims: its members wanted to overthrow the Indian state and replace it with a totalitarian, theocratic order. A draft constitution prepared by Abhinav Bharat spoke of a single-party system, presided over by a leader who “shall be followed at all levels without questioning the authority.” It called for the creation of an “academy of indoctrinization [sic.].” The concluding comment was stark: “People whose ideas are detrimental to Hindu Rashtra should be killed.” Purohit’s plans to bring about a Hindutva state were often fantastical. He claimed, the prosecutors say, to have secured an appointment with Nepal’s King Gyanendra in 2006 and 2007 to press for his support for the planned Hindutva revolution. Nepal, he went on, was willing to train Abhinav Bharat’s cadre, and supply it with assault rifles. Israel’s government, he said, had agreed to grant members of the group military support and, if needed, political asylum. Many believe that Abhinav Bharat carried out many attacks earlier attributed to jihadist groups — notable among them, the bombing of the Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad in May 2007, and a subsequent attack on the famous shrine at Ajmer. Despite persistent questioning of Abhinav Bharat cadre, though, the investigators have not been able to link the group to the attacks. Matters are complicated by the fact that some of the operations attributed to Abhinav Bharat may not have had much to do with the group — even though its leading luminaries claimed responsibility for the attacks. For example, Purohit allegedly claimed to confidants that the attack was carried out by the Dewas-based Hindutva terrorist Sunil Joshi, who was murdered in December 2007. But the United States Treasury Department later imposed sanctions on Lashkar-e-Taiba activist Arif Kasmani — a Karachi-based jihadist with close links to the Taliban and al-Qaeda — for financing the attack. In January this year, Pakistan’s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik went further, admitting that “there were some Pakistan-based Islamists who had been hired to carry out the Samjhauta Express attack.” Judging by recent Hindutva terror attacks, like last year’s bombings in Goa, it is unclear if they still have the capabilities to mount a sophisticated attack of the kind seen in Pune. Few investigators believe that the organisations — or other Hindutva cells — mounted the operation. “Still”, says one Maharashtra police official involved in investigating both Hindutva and jihadist attacks, “you can’t help wondering — what if?” Signs are the investigation into the bombing of the German Bakery will take time. All that investigators have by way of suspects are three men recorded holding brief meetings before the blast by a poor-quality closed-circuit television camera. From the videotape, it is unclear if the men had anything to do with the attack. The longer the investigation takes, the more time conspiracy theories and speculation will have to proliferate — likely deepening the communal fissures the bombing is already opening up. http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/19/stories/2010021961571000.htm _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 11:58:45 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:58:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] letter to Bachchanji from Mallika S. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002182228qc96b864o40b637693f8aca25@mail.gmail.com> sour grapes !!! On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Javed wrote: > Can I believe in your endorsements, Bachchanji? > Mallika Sarabhai > > My dear Bachchanji, Greetings from a Gujarati. > > You are indeed a fine actor. You are an intelligent man and a shrewd > businessman. But should I believe in your endorsements? > > Let's take a brief look at what you proclaim you believe in (albeit > for huge sums of money). BPL, ICICI, Parker and Luxor pens, Maruti > Versa, Cadbury Chocolates. Nerolac Paints, Dabur, Emami, Eveready, > Sahara City Homes, D'damas, Binani Cement and Reliance. And now > Gujarat. > > I wonder how you decide what to endorse. Is your house built with > Binani Cement? Do you really like Cadbury's Chocolates or do you have > to resort to Dabar's Hajmola (whose efficacy you have earlier checked) > after eating them? > > And, having endorsed two pens, one very upmarket and one rather down, > which one do you use? Have you, except perhaps for the shooting of the > ad, ever driven or been driven in a Versa? Do you know whether the > Nerolac paint in your home (you do use it don't you?) has lead in it > that can poison you slowly as it does so many people? Or are the > decisions entirely monetary? > > It has been reported that no direct fee will be paid to you for being > my Brand Ambassador. So, with no monetary decision to guide you, how > did you decide to say yes? Did you check on the state of the State? > > I doubt it, for the decision and the announcement came from one single > meeting. And I somehow doubt that you have been following the news on > Gujarat closely.So, as a Gujarati, permit me to introduce my State to > you. > > Everyone knows of our vibrancy, of the billions and trillions pouring > into our State through the two yearly jamborees called Vibrant > Gujarat. But did you know that by the government's own admission no > more than 23% of these have actually moved beyond the MOU stage? > > That while huge subsidies are being granted to our richest business > houses, over 75,000 small and medium businesses have shut down > rendering one million more people jobless? > > You know of Gujarat's fast paced growth and the FDI pouring in, you > have no doubt seen pictures of the Czars of the business world lining > up to pour money to develop us. To develop whom? > > Did you know that our poor are getting poorer? That while theAll-India > reduction in poverty between '93 and 2005 is 8.5%, in Gujarat it is a > mere 2.8%? That we have entire farmer families committing suicide, not > just the male head of the household? > > You have heard of how some mealy mouthed NGO types have been blocking > the progress of the Narmada project, how the government has prevailed, > and water is pouring down every thirsty mouth and every bit of thirsty > land. But did you know that in the 49 years since it was started, and > in spite of the Rs.29,000 crores spent on it, only 29% of the work is > complete? > > That the construction is so poor (lots of sand added to the you-know- > which cement perhaps) that over the last nine years there have been > 308 breaches, ruining lakhs of farmers whose fields were flooded, > ruining the poorest salt farmers whose salt was washed away? > > That whereas in 1999, 4743 of Gujarat's villages were without drinking > water, within two years that figure had gone up to 11,390 villages ? > (I cannot even begin to project those figures for today - but do know > that the figure has gone up dramatically rather than down.) > > With our CM, hailed as the CEO of Gujarat, we have once again achieved > number one status - in indebtedness. In 2001 the State debt was > Rs.14000 crores. This was before the State became a multinational > company. Today it stands at Rs.1,05,000 crores. And to service this > debt we pay a whopping Rs7000 crores a year, 25% of our annual budget. > > Meanwhile our spending on education is down, no new public hospitals > for the poor are being built, fishermen are going a begging as the > seas turn turgid with effluents, more mothers die at birth per > thousandthan in the rest of India, and our general performance on the > Human Development Index is nearly the first - from the bottom. > > One rape a day, 17 cases of violence against women, and, over the last > ten years, 8802 suicides and 18152 "accidental " deaths of women are > officially reported. You can imagine the real figures. > > You have said that you are our Ambassador because we have Somnath and > Gandhi. Somnath was built for people. Gandhiji was a man of the > people. Do the people of this State matter to you? If they do, perhaps > your decision will be different. I hope you will read this letter and > decide. > > In warmth and friendship, > Mallika > > > http://www.dnaindia.com/india/column_can-i-believe-in-your-endorsements-bachchanji_1347680 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 12:15:58 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:15:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Today is Shivaji Jayanti - Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002182245w5a28730t77f870a6014ab41c@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/national-icons/shivaji-maharaj/ Shivaji Jayanti is celebrated on 19th February. Description: Shivaji Jayanti or the birthday of Shivaji Maharaj is celebrated on a majestic scale in Maharashtra. Shivaji was born on 19th February, 1627. His parents Jijabai and Shahaji Bhonsle named him Shivaji after local Goddess Shivai. Shivaji was the creator of the Maratha nation. He was instrumental in uniting the Maratha chiefs of Mayal, Konkan and Desh regions. His military and civil administration was of greatest importance. He was successful in carving out a small kingdom by defeating the alien powers. Chatrapati Shivaji is a hero not only for the people of Maharashtra but for those of India as well. On the occasion of Shivaji Jayanti several processions are taken out and people dress up like Shivaji and his associates. The birthday is celebrated on a huge scale and various programmes remembering the achievements of the great ruler are organized. History of Shivaji Early days Shivaji was born on 19th Februray, 1627, in Shivneri Fort, 60 kms north of Pune. He was named after the local Goddess Shivai, to whom his mother prayed for a son. His father Shahaji Bhosle was the chief of the kingdom of Bijapur. He was however, not allowed to take charge of any fort. His mother had a great influence on him as he was introduced to Indian epics of Mahabharata, Ramayana and other holy books by her. Shivaji also gained a lot of knowledge from his father’s unsuccessful attempts to gain power. He was inspired by his father military tactics, peacetime diplomacy and also possessed knowledge of Sanskrit and Hindu scriptures. His administration Shivaji grew into a fearless military leader with trainings from commanders like Gomaji Naik and Baji Pasalkar. Young Shivaji was motivated, enthusiastic and energetic. In his early days he was successful in inspiring local youths to follow his idealistic pursuits. At the age of 17, he attacked and captured Torna Fort of Bijapur and by 1647 he took control of Kondana and Raigad Forts. The Western Ghats along the Konkan Coast were also under his control by 1654. His achievements In order to sabotage Shivaji’s rise to power, Adilshah arrested Shahji, his father by deceitful means and had armies sent against Shivaji and his elder brother Sambaji. To suppress Shivaji’s control of the Bijapur kingdom, Afzal Khan was sent to destroy Shivaji. However, with his cunning means, Shivaji successfully stabbed Afzal Khan. Eventually Bijapur’s armies were routed in the famous Battle of Pratapgarh in 1659 and Shivaji turned into a hero of the Marathas. Now, under the confident leadership of Shivaji, the Marthas successfully pushed back the Mughals and the Sultanate kingdowms from his homeland. The Mughals also fought against Shivaji led by Shaista Khan under Aurangazeb. However, Shivaji lost many men against a well trained and disciplined Mughal army. Shivaji felt the need of finance to maintain an army and decided to loot the Mughal city of Surat. The Mughal emperor then sent Jai Singh to defeat Shivaji. After a few skirmishes, he thought it wise to accept the emperor’s soverignity. But he was soon placed under house arrest in Agra. Using tact and intelligence, Shivaji successfully escaped from Agra and hid in his homeland and kept a low profile for some time. Shivaji gradually rebuild his empire and within six months was able to recover much of his lost ground. Shivaji extended his empire further south to Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. In order to regain one of his forts, Kondana, he appointed his most trusted general Tanaji Malusare. The battle that followed between the Marathas and the Mughals came to be known as the Maratha war of Independence where the Marathas were successful in regaining the control of the fort. Chatrapati Shivaji Shivaji was formally coronated Chatrapati in 1674 in Raigad fort and henceforth came to be known as Chatrapati Shivaji. Shivaji died in 1680 but not before leaving an indelible mark on the history pages. He laid the foundation of a Hindu empire which lasted for over two centuries. Shivaji has been a source of inspiration and pride for generations for his courage and military acumen. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 12:30:33 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:30:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation In-Reply-To: <000001cab129$f5cc41a0$e164c4e0$@in> References: <000001cab129$f5cc41a0$e164c4e0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin When Praveen Swami writes about Islamic terrorism and Kashmiri extremists with intricate details (which no other journalist has access to), we believe him gleefully to score our points about Pakistan and so on. But now, when he raises doubts if Hindutva forces were involved in this terror act, we discard him as "no authority". I would like you to see some of the following links to see what an authority Praveen Swami is considered on such matters: http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/display/ssispsru/Mr+Praveen+Swami http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/praveen-swami-lets-the-cat-out-of-the-bag/ http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2008/09/28/praveen-swamis-book-on-the-secret-jihad-in-kashmir/ http://www.outlookindia.com/peoplefnl.aspx?author=Praveen%20Swami&pid=4139 On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Bipin wrote: > Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want to divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as sleeper cell. > > It’s a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject > again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take > it seriously. > > ------- > Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Praveen Swami > > Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group > may have carried out German Bakery bombing > > PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant > Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role > in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the > rogue military officer with rose petals. > > Last week’s bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly > story of Abhinav Bharat — the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped > found — back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the > Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik > began. > > In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the > bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva > terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young > Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing > that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a > Hindutva group. > > Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved > in Abhinav Bharat’s terror campaign have never been held. Jatin > Chatterjee — better known by his alias Swami Asimanand — is thought to > be hiding out in Gujarat’s Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu > proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat’s > key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. > From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 12:34:11 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:34:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: <93AE9686F98D4583B1348EA1A891AACC@tara> Message-ID: 3 articles on the subject of little kashmiri boys..: The Hindu 'Stone-pelting turns into a ‘lucrative business’ in J&K' Police on Friday arrested a person, alleged to be the kingpin of stone-pelters in the Kashmir valley, and claimed to have found documents which suggest this has fast turned into a lucrative ‘business’ for unemployed youths offering their ‘service’ for a price. Police had launched a massive drive against stone-pelters in the valley and their investigations led to a house in Bemina colony on the outskirts of the city after which they found several documents suggesting his involvement in stone-pelting business for nearly last two years, official sources said here on Friday. The arrested person identified as Irshad Ahmed was interrogated by the police and they recovered dozens of SIM cards, threat letters, fake press identity cards, cheque books and well maintained account registers which state the expenditure for stone-pelting incidents in various parts of the valley. The first register contained 294 names along with their photographs and mentions the details of money paid to them for their stone-pelting activities in the last one year in the downtown city, the sources said. Police claimed to have recovered sketches of roads leading from Ganderbal to Leh, a route used by the Army personnel to maintain essential supplies to Ladakh division, they said. Business worth lakhs of rupees is estimated to be generated through this activity. Separatist groups, especially those owing allegiance to Pakistan-terror outfit Hizbul Mujahideen and Lashker-e-Taiba, are alleged to have formed several groups comprising a minimum of dozen people, sources in the interrogation team said. These groups are paid an amount ranging between Rs five to eight lakh, they said, adding a part of this money is handed over to another group known as “initiators” who pick up stones and start pelting on police and paramilitary forces. The groups, which are alleged to have been receiving funds from a political party as well, have stationed their people in various localities and other districts of the valley, the sources said. This could be the reason for stone-pelting incidents occurring in a synchronised manner throughout the valley during agitations and protests, they said. ------------------------------------------------- Kashmir valley's stone pelters graduate to petrol bombs Ishfaq ul Hassan / DNAFriday, February 19, 2010 2:34 IST Srinagar: Stone-throwers have added lethal petrol bombs to their armoury to target security forces in strife-torn Kashmir. The disturbing trend is now fast catching up with the youth. “Petrol bombs were thrown at security forces some places during recent stone pelting incidents. Youngsters were seen using those petrol bombs,” CRPF spokesman Prabhakar Tripathi said. Making petrol bombs is easy. The youth fill glass bottles with petrol and wrap some clothes around them. The clothes serve as wicks. After igniting the wicks, they throw the bottles on security forces. The bottles explode and the petrol spreads and catches fire. “Such bombs can cause heavy damage,” Tripathi said. Security forces are now devising a new strategy to deal with this threat. “We use barricades and other tools to keep petrol bomb throwers at bay,” said Tripathi. Nearly 1,500 CRPF jawans have been injured in stone pelting incidents in the past one-and-a-half years. Around 373 vehicles were also damaged due to stone pelting during that period. About 100 CRPF men have been injured in the recent stone pelting incidents. In addition, hundreds of state police personnel have also suffered grievous injuries. Police have arrested several suspected stone throwers and booked them under stringent acts, including waging war against the state. “We are interrogating them. The government has proof at hand to show that huge money in being pumped into such violent activities by vested interests. They don’t have any ideology. The government will soon expose the sponsors of the stone throwers,” Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah said. The hard-line faction of Hurriyat Conference has called for a Kashmir Bandh on Saturday to protest the crackdown on stone throwers. -------------------------------- SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2010 Stone pelting emerging as a major challenge for Govt In Srinagar, network expands from 300 youth in 2008 to 1500 in 2010 Ahmed Ali Fayyaz SRINAGAR, Feb 14: Registering five-fold increase in the last two years, network of stone pelting youth in the capital city is clearly emerging as a major administrative challenge for Omar Abdullah-led coalition government in Jammu & Kashmir. In sharp contrast to serious allegations leveled by some Ministers and legislators of the National Conference (NC), authorities have failed to find mainstream Opposition party PDP’s hand behind the stone pelting frenzy. Officials claim to have completed the mapping of nearly 50 spots and identified cadres of two Hurriyat (Geelani) constituents and a trade union leader’s “private militia” among the actors of unarmed violence that is now publicly getting support from separatist outfits including Hurriyat and High Court Bar Association. According to authoritative sources, the number of youth indulging in stone pelting on Police and CRPF, as well as on civilian transport and businesses, has phenomenally increased to 1,500 from just 300 in Srinagar in the year 2008. “Those directly having stakes in separatist armed strife want to desperately switch over to a different mode of turbulence after militancy has reduced to trickle. As of now, Government’s entire counter-insurgency initiative stands designed on an agitation full of arms and ammunition”, says a Police official who has a stint of nearly 10 years in Special Operations Group (SOG) of J&K Police to his credit. “It’s essentially a political movement. Resistance will continue to adopt one or the other colour---from guns and grenades to stones and brickbats to massive peaceful demonstrations--- until a political solution is found to a political problem”, argued a High Court lawyer. Asserting unconditional support to stone pelting, speakers at a High Court Bar Association-sponsored conference today cautioned media and politicians against “denigrating” the stone pelters with usage of “derogatory” phrases like “Sangbaaz” (stone pelter). But most of the Police officials tasked to neutralize this nascent mode of turbulence insist that combination of different factors has resulted in breakdown of law and order, particularly in Srinagar and parts of Baramulla and Sopore towns in north Kashmir. They categorically said that some Ministers’ and legislators’ allegation of engaging the youth on cash payment against PDP was unfounded as no such hand had been identified till date. “Huge amount of Rs 40 Lakh was established to have been invested in stone pelting in Srinagar alone during Amarnath land allotment controversy in 2008. When we reached close to the handlers and zeroed in on the key layer in 2009, we faced considerable resistance from none other than NC’s senior leaders in Khanyar and Batmaloo”, he added. “But this does not mean that the ruling party is organizing the whole show. We have found five major modules---two being directly funded by a couple of constituents in the hardliner Hurriyat and yet another by a trade union leader, himself working in the government. We are still groping in the dark with regard to funding of two more modules”, said the official. He claimed that “Crores of Rupees” had been invested in stone pelting in the last two years. According to him, it was a “fully coordinated and organized activity” as Police had lately observed that the handlers had meticulously done the mapping of nearly 50 spots in Srinagar and specified the modus operandi. He claimed that Police had seized at least one of such maps in recent days and done its own mapping of more than 50 flashpoints. “One of the major objectives is crippling the authority of the government so as to grab prime land, resist arrest of criminals and create an underworld of multi-layered insulation”. With a serious expression of concern, he added: “Half-baked initiatives will only lead us to a situation where you will, for the first time, find private militias operating under the command of powerful people in Srinagar. It will be definitely a state of lawlessness and anarchy. That may simultaneously serve as fuel to sustenance of disorder”. With none of the officials willing to speak on record, another officer maintained that the “menace of stone pelting” would neither stop or end in absence of a clear initiative from the government. “There’s a major difference. We have a clear-cut initiative with regard to countering armed terrorism. Just three officers in the city of 17 Lakh people seem to be on the forefront of countering stone pelting. Do or don’t do, it doesn’t matter. If you take an initiative of your known and there’s something wrong, everything will explode on your own head. We don’t feel our Government on our back. Even CM’s directions given to senior officers do not percolate down to the field”. Men in J&K Police strongly support punishment to those who break the law like the BSF officials in Nishat. They believe that suspension of officials without even holding an inquiry had perceptibly demoralized the rank and file in Police. A day after an ASI’s suspension, on the allegation of killing a boy in teargas shelling, a senior civil official and member of J&K Special Tribunal was attacked by a mob that damaged his official car in front of Police beat at Budshah Chowk. Calling for help, Police officials expressed their helplessness to the senior KAS officer and argued that they would not like to act and attract suspension or attachment. Conservative estimates suggest that at least 50 people have died and more than 4,000 sustained injuries in incidents of stone pelting and resultant reaction from Police and armed forces in Kashmir valley in the last two years. Number of civil and government vehicles damaged in such incidents is believed to be over 1,000.Director of SKIMS, Soura, Dr Abdul Hamid Zargar said that a dozen of his hospital vehicles had been extensively damaged in last three months alone. He said that about 50 of his hospital employees attacked by the mobs included himself and Medical Superintendent Dr Syed Amin Tabish. “It’s an irony that when these stone pelting youth get injured in Police action, they approach the same doctors and our paramedical staff for treatment. We are committed to our professionalism. We still provide them best possible treatment”, Dr Zargar said with a passionate appeal that all ambulances and hospital vehicles and staff be exempted from such unruly attacks. > From: Tara Prakash > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:52:46 -0500 > To: Junaid > Cc: "S. Jabbar" , Sarai > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Thanks Junaid. Point taken. People should have right to self determination. > First scenario is that Kashmir becomes a sovereign state. What would you say > to those skeptics who are afraid, genuinely or otherwise, that a new country > where fundamentalism has enjoyed some welcoming constituency in the past, > will become another safe haven for the destructive elements linked to Al > qaeda ideology to pursue their destructive agenda. Do you think people are > right to be skeptical that Kashmir as a free nation will become like Yeman, > or worse, Somalia? > > My second query, again for my personal information, and it is about the > second scenario. I have heard people in the past that Pakistan is lesser > evil than India. How do they justify this and do you agree with them? This > is an international listbut when it comes to Kashmir, it appears that > Kashmir on the Pakistani side does not exist or that there is no military > presence. Are the people on Pakistani side free? > > > Best > TaraPrakash > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Junaid" > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: "S. Jabbar" ; "Sarai" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > Hi Tara, > > I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of > parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let > ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze > our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by > itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane > solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate > of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if > we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums > (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more > hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." > > Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and > Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who > don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let > Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) > be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create > conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, > negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. > When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 > Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve > issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate > a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international > observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people > who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and > negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole > thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the > the process and its outcome. > > Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on > the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of > this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of > states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and > aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and > the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. > > Junaid > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash wrote: >> Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. >> It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" >> To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" >> Cc: "Sarai" >> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >> The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 >> and >> included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, >> Ladakh, >> Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about solutions >> then >> you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people >> and >> not simply 'which Kashmiris.' >> >> >>> From: TaraPrakash >>> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 >>> To: Junaid >>> Cc: >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >>> >>> Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this >>> old >>> >> problem. >> Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which >>> >>> Kashmiris" was >> >> not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri >>> >>> nationality, or >> >> unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just >>> >>> canceling the >> >> noise. >> JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the >>> >>> brutal Mujahaddins, in >> >> their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, >>> >>> moved to J&K. From >> >> then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their >>> >>> homes. Every >> >> dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women >>> >>> were told >> >> to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces >>> >>> was their >> >> fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred >>> >>> and if >> >> that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being >>> >>> vocal. >> >> Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they >>> >>> Kashmiris? But >> >> they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. >>> >>> Aren't they >> >> Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are >>> >>> Kashmiris in >> >> POK free? >> Those who are part of National conference or PDP, >>> >>> aren't they Kashmiris? >> >> Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the >>> >>> question still remains which >> >> Kashmiris? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> >>> "Junaid" >> >> To: "Tara Prakash" >> Cc: >>> >>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM >> Subject: Re: >>> >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >> Dear Tara, >> >> I quote you: "But >>> >>> isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? >> >> Which Kashmiris?" End. >> >> I >>> >>> absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two >> >> follow-up >>> >>> questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones >> >> that will lead us to >>> >>> specifics. If anything they will further push us >> >> into a metaphysics of denial. >>> >>> I assume you know enough about Kashmir >> >> and are aware that there is no shortage >>> >>> of solutions. Indian >> >> government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a >>> >>> political issue, >> >> and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that >>> >>> remains >> >> is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The >>> >>> "right >> >> solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free >>> >>> and >> >> fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives >>> >>> for >> >> Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made >> it >>> >>> clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be >> >> forced down >>> >>> the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's >> >> legitimacy and >>> >>> authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows >> >> that is, can go to >>> >>> "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the >> >> problem). The first step would >>> >>> be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of >> >> their problem, that is allow them to >>> >>> find the right solution with a >> >> guarantee that it will be accepted. >> >> The second >>> >>> question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we >> >> really keep >>> >>> telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By >> >> asking this question, are >>> >>> you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? >> >> If you believe that "the people" >>> >>> have to elect their representatives, >> >> how can you in the same breath deny the >>> >>> existence of those same >> >> people? >> >> I guess the first "concrete suggestions" >>> >>> would be the dismantling of >> >> the draconian military and police apparatus from >>> >>> Kashmir: i.e. 1. >> >> remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of >>> >>> military and >> >> police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA >>> >>> and >> >> Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies >> involved >>> >>> in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. >> >> Allow Kashmiris to >>> >>> peacefully express their dissent (remove >> >> restrictions on free speech and >>> >>> assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the >> >> stranglehold that the security agencies >>> >>> have over the everyday life of >> >> people through technics of surveillance and >>> >>> proliferation of threats. >> >> Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next >>> >>> ones. At least it >> >> will show that the Indian government is sincere in its >>> >>> efforts to >> >> solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to >>> >>> tire >> >> people out. >> >> Junaid >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash >>> >>> wrote: >>> "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to >>> be solved, with the full >>> involvement of Kashmiris." >>> Agreed. But isn't it >>> time to move to specifics. What solution? Which >>> Kashmiris? A democratic >>> exercise requires people to elect their >>> representatives who can talk on >>> their behalf. But those who are chosen, >>> are >>> found to be going "to any >>> extent to please their masters in Delhi" >>> I don't think the Indian govt or UN >>> can talk to every Kashmiri on this >>> earth >>> for the resolution of the >>> problem. >>> It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions >>> towards >>> resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate >>> >>> people, >>> so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a >>> climate >>> towards >>> resolution of the issue. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Junaid" >>> To: ; "Junaid" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM >>> Subject: >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >>> >>> >>>> Dozens of young boys have >>> >>> been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >>>> >>>> laws over the last few weeks. >>> >>> The charges that have been filed against >>>> >>>> them range from "waging war >>> >>> against the state" to defiling "state >>>> >>>> honor". In recent months Indian >>> >>> military and police commanders have >>>> >>>> described protests in Kashmir as >>> >>> "agitational terrorism" and >>>> >>>> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify >>> >>> violent clampdown on >>>> >>>> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 >>> >>> people, mostly >>>> >>>> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured >>> >>> by >>>> >>>> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >>>> >>> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >>>> >>>> thousands of >>> >>> people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >>>> >>>> permanent physical >>> >>> disabilities. The police authorities have banned >>>> >>>> any peaceful assembly of >>> >>> people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >>>> >>>> other towns have reported >>> >>> police brutalities. Even the villages are >>>> >>>> not being spared. Only yesterday, >>> >>> mourning villagers were attacked by >>>> >>>> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South >>> >>> Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >>>> >>>> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most >>> >>> of the injuries were inflicted >>>> >>>> above the waist showing an intention to >>> >>> kill. >>>> >>>> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, >>> >>> but >>>> >>>> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel >>> >>> dimension. >>>> >>>> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline >>> >>> and >>>> >>>> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian >>>> >>> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >>>> >>>> deceive >>> >>> its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >>>> >>>> in Azad >>> >>> Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >>>> >>>> has been there >>> >>> for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >>>> >>>> back every few years >>> >>> to earn brownie points. >>>> >>>> National Conference government which has proved >>> >>> its inability to >>>> >>>> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't >>> >>> even remove >>>> >>>> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has >>> >>> sought to >>>> >>>> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent >>> >>> to >>>> >>>> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for >>>> >>> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel >>>> >>> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >>>> >>>> Kashmir >>> >>> police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >>>> >>>> perhaps in a >>> >>> bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >>>> >>>> army's help. >>>> >>>> >>> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart >>>> >>>> from >>> >>> the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >>>> >>>> time, the >>> >>> conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >>>> >>>> with >>> >>> Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >>>> >>>> inhuman >>> >>> tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >>>> >>>> stop human >>> >>> rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >>>> >>>> Kashmir is a >>> >>> political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >>>> >>>> involvement of >>> >>> Kashmiris. >>>> >>>> _____________________ >>>> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K >>> >>> gov; >>>> >>>> Riyaz Wani >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/5802 >>> 32 >>> >>>> >>>> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for >>>> >>> Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or life >>>> >>>> in >>> >>> jail. >>>> >>>> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against >>> >>> eight >>>> >>>> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >>>> >>> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >>>> >>>> 121 of >>> >>> CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >>>> >>>> Department >>> >>> told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >>>> >>>> PSAs against ł20 >>> >>> more such youths˛. >>>> >>>> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court >>> >>> on Monday. Police >>>> >>>> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon >>> >>> granted by Judge >>>> >>>> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told >>> >>> the court, >>>> >>>> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and >>> >>> security >>>> >>>> forces. >>>> >>>> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said >>> >>> the youths were held >>>> >>>> in random raids across the city and were not involved >>> >>> in >>>> >>>> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of >>> >>> CrPC. >>>> >>>> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety >>> >>> Act >>>> >>>> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >>>> >>> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released >>>> >>> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >>>> >>>> protests >>> >>> over the death of two women in Shopian. >>>> >>>> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said >>> >>> he was not in a position to give łthe >>>> >>>> exact number of youths˛ booked under >>> >>> PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am >>>> >>>> out of station and donąt have the exact >>> >>> number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian >>>> >>>> Express. >>>> Police say waging war against >>> >>> country, judge not impressed >>>> >>>> _____________ >>>> Police say waging war >>> >>> against country, judge not impressed >>>> >>>> Peerzada Ashiq >>>> >>> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >>>> >>>> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted >>> >>> Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >>>> >>>> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows >>> >>> of chairs. łYes madam. >>>> >>>> Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 >>> >>> jostled youth with red >>>> >>>> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >>>> >>>> This is >>> >>> no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >>>> >>>> in downtown >>> >>> Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >>>> >>>> police presented >>> >>> them before the court on Monday for extending their >>>> >>>> police remand. But >>> >>> after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >>>> >>>> boys to judicial remand >>> >>> for 15 days. >>>> >>>> łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in >>> >>> advance?˛ >>>> >>>> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. >>> >>> łThrough >>>> >>>> reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. >>>> >>>> łHow >>> >>> is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these >>>> >>>> reliable >>> >>> sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >>>> >>>> officer, looking >>> >>> at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, >>>> >>>> and involved for the >>> >>> last five years.˛ >>>> >>>> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when >>> >>> Zahid, one of the >>>> >>>> accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time >>> >>> we are in the >>>> >>>> lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, >>> >>> who was on >>>> >>>> the bike when the police arrested him. >>>> >>>> The boy, wearing a >>> >>> pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >>>> >>>> joined by others in the >>> >>> room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >>>> >>>> requesting them to wipe tears >>> >>> and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be >>>> >>>> done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief >>> >>> Minister Omar Abdullah told the >>>> >>>> media we are launching a crackdown against >>> >>> stone-pelters, the police >>>> >>>> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >>>> >>>> >>> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in >>>> >>>> heavy >>> >>> chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >>>> >>>> the state and >>> >>> insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >>>> >>>> life imprisonment. >>> >>> The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >>>> >>>> and were presented >>> >>> before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >>>> >>>> Lawyer Joo contested >>> >>> that the police cannot impose the waging a war >>>> >>>> against the nation unless a >>> >>> magistrate has done an investigation in a >>>> >>>> case and the police cannot do it >>> >>> on their own. >>>> >>>> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a >>> >>> row, their >>>> >>>> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their >>> >>> innocence: >>>> >>>> łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and >>> >>> arrested >>>> >>>> us,˛ they said. >>>> >>>> While a policeman shouted back: łThey have >>> >>> snatched our peace.˛ >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> >>>> Critiques & >>> >>> Collaborations >>>> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> >>> with >>>> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >>>> List archive: >>> >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> ______________________ >>> >>> ___________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> >>> city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >>> >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To >>> >>> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List >>> >>> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 12:38:36 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:38:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Afghanistan Message-ID: The Afghanistan problem Saturday, 30 January 2010 Ayesha Siddiqa Nothing could be clearer than the fact that there is an ever-widening divide in the perception, interests and understanding of the situation amongst the various stakeholders in Afghanistan. The regional states have their eyes on maximising benefits as the US reviews cutting its losses and bailing out of Kabul. Although American officials explained that the Obama administration is yet to take a final decision regarding withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, it is quite clear that the US and its Nato allies are looking for an exit. This would mean finding some face-saving method for allied forces to withdraw. Regionally, attention is drawn towards Gen McChrystal¹s recent remarks regarding negotiations with the Taliban. This is not a new idea but the conspiracy mill ‹ which is forever productive in South Asia ‹ has begun to talk about the possibility of the US doing a deal with the Taliban alone and leaving Afghanistan at the mercy of a Karzai-Mullah Omar coalition supported by India. The Obama administration is considering various methods to woo the Taliban, that would include the use of money and carefully applying the divide and rule policy through which the Œgood¹ Taliban could be separated from the Œbad¹. In this case, the good probably refers to a newer generation that might be more willing to cut deals with foreign forces than the older generation, which partnered with the likes of Osama bin Laden. The anxiety expressed by some circles in Pakistan regarding a negotiation plan is strange considering that the military and the strategic community on the whole have always supported such an idea. In fact, Pervez Musharraf continues to market the idea. There is also the worry mentioned earlier that the US might do the talking on its own. However, this shouldn¹t be a worry since it is not easy to ignore the ISI ‹ with its extensive contacts with the Taliban. Sources even claim that a meeting between the ISI, CIA and Mullah Omar did take place in the past couple of months organised by Pakistan¹s intelligence operatives. The Taliban do not seem averse to talking to the US, especially now that Washington might not be insisting on Mullah Omar and his men surrendering Osama dead or alive. The Taliban and their handlers would be happy to negotiate with the US since they were never really averse to the idea of such talks. There are some who believe that an agreement could have been reached only if the US was not in such a hurry to attack. Consequently, Mullah Omar seems to have signalled his willingness not to engage in a war in case he is included in Afghanistan¹s future political set-up. Interestingly, other sources have denied the report. But why wouldn¹t he talk as he has everything to gain? Not only would he be a part of Kabul¹s future political dispensation, he would also be a part of establishing a religion-oriented state that would get as much support from the West as Saudi Arabia, if not more. So denying reports of conciliation may be for harder bargaining but definitely not to create anxiety in western capitals which may force them to change their minds. A deal with Mullah Omar is all that the allies could look forward to since there is no possibility whatsoever of a much-needed arrangement amongst regional stakeholders like India, Iran and Pakistan regarding Kabul¹s future. While Islamabad is apprehensive of the Indian presence due to its fear of a two-front situation in the future, India seems to be thinking in terms of the best- and worst-case scenarios. The former pertains to a situation where Delhi is able to put Pakistan on the defensive. It has already tried to achieve the objective through a mix of intelligence and development assistance tactics. The worst-case scenario for Delhi, on the other hand, pertains to the political balkanisation of Afghanistan in which Islamabad¹s influence is limited to the southern provinces while India has greater influence over Kabul and the north. There are apparent holes in this strategy since India might not be able to hold the south after an American withdrawal. Since Delhi has not invested in the friendlier provinces in the north and concentrated all its efforts in the south, it may not be able to establish a foothold in either part. It may try to do the trick through pumping money to the Afghan Taliban, but there are no guarantees that this will work. There could even be a worst-case scenario in which Delhi gets crushed in Afghanistan and on its mainland through these non-state forces. The fact that Pakistan also bleeds profusely in the process is a given. But it¹s sad to see states not understanding the future cost of their strategic games. It¹s most unfortunate that the regional states, which will suffer the most after they are left to confront each other¹s interests in Afghanistan after a US withdrawal, do not think of a joint strategy. The Pandora¹s box ‹ which many believe was opened due to American intervention in Afghanistan ‹ will not be shut by a US withdrawal. There are a couple of possibilities that come to mind. First, there could be a deliberate lull in violence after the allied forces leave. This is a period when other regional forces with stakes in Afghanistan will be regrouping to claim greater territory and interests. Second, violence could probably increase initially in Afghanistan and then in the entire region. The regional actors would pump in resources and use contacts with the proxies to create greater chaos and mayhem on the other side. This is certainly a dangerous proposition since what we may be looking at is a conflict which will not be contained within specific boundaries. Therefore, we may end up having larger ungovernable spaces. Such a development will threaten India as much as it will Pakistan. Or perhaps it will affect Pakistan more since society is already bleeding from the impact of a decade of the war on terror. Sadly, there is no end in sight to proxy wars in the region and non-state actors. In fact, heightened competition between India and Pakistan over Afghanistan will result in greater justification on both sides for maintaining non-state actors as proxies. Such a prognosis means that there will be more youth who will be deprived of their right to education, a better and hygienic environment, greater access to health and personal security. They will be sacrificed at the altar of national ego and fooled into Œmartyrdom¹ in the name of faith. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 12:51:18 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:51:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Obama=92s_New_OIC_Envoy_Defended_A?= =?windows-1252?q?ctivist_Who_Aided_Terrorist_Group?= Message-ID: <6353c691002182321u7dcf7420ma9252390c2032b84@mail.gmail.com> *Obama’s New OIC Envoy Defended Activist Who Aided Terrorist Group* Monday, February 15, 2010 By Patrick Goodenough, International Editor *(Editor's note: This story was updated on Feb. 16, 2010.) ** (CNSNews.com)* – President Obama’s newly appointed envoy to the Organization of the Islamic Conference was quoted in 2004 as saying an American who aided a Palestinian terrorist group was the victim of “politically motivated persecutions” who was being used “to squash dissent.” Rashad Hussain was quoted as telling a Muslim students’ event in Chicago that if U.S. Muslims did not speak out against the injustices taking place in America, then everyone’s rights would be in jeopardy. The *Washington Report on Middle East Affairs* (WRMEA) cited Hussain as making the remarks in connection with Sami al-Arian, a university professor and activist sentenced in 2006 to more than four years in prison (including time already spent in custody) after he had pleaded guilty to conspiring to aid the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ). The U.S. government designated the PIJ as a foreign terrorist organization in 1997, and in 2003, then Attorney-General John Ashcroft described it as “one of the most violent terrorist organizations in the world.” Palestinian Islamic Jihad has killed more than 100 Israelis in suicide bombings and other attacks. Its victims include American citizens Alisa Flatow, a 20-year-old New Jersey college student killed in a 1995 suicide bombing in Gaza, and 16-year-old Shoshana Ben-Ishai, shot dead in a bus in Jerusalem in 2001. In sentencing al-Arian, Judge James Moody of the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida described him as a “leader of the PIJ” and a “master manipulator.” Al-Arian remains under home detention in Virginia pending contempt of court charges relating to his refusal to testify in an unrelated case involving an Islamic think tank. Sympathizers view him as a victim of post-9/11 law enforcement zeal and anti-Muslim prejudice. (The WRMEA article described him as “an innocent man targeted for free-speech activities, whose rights were stripped thanks in part to the PATRIOT Act.”) Among those sympathizers, evidently, was Rashad Hussain, who at the time of the cited remarks was a Yale Law School student and an editor, from 2003-2005, of the Yale Law Journal. He went on to serve as a Department of Justice trial attorney and in January 2009 was appointed White House deputy associate counsel. On Saturday, Obama named the Texas-born, 31-year-old Indian-American as his envoy to the OIC, the 57-member bloc of Islamic states. The appointment is in line with the president’s goal, expressed in his speech in Cairo last June, to reach out to the Islamic world. Obama made the announcement in a video address at a U.S.-Islamic World Forum meeting in Qatar, which Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Hussain attended over the weekend. “Rashad has played a key role in developing the partnerships I called for in Cairo,” Obama told the gathering in the video message. “And as a hafiz of the Koran, he is a respected member of the American Muslim community, and I thank him for carrying forward this important work.” (A hafiz is someone who has memorized the Islamic text.) *Article edited* Around three years after the WRMEA article quoting Hussain first appeared, it was edited to remove all references to him. A copy of the original 2004 article, retrieved via the Nexis news database, includes the following sentences: *Al-Arian’s situation is one of many “politically motivated persecutions,” claimed Rashad Hussain, a Yale law student. Such persecution, he stated, must be fought through hope, faith, and the Muslim vote (…) Along with many others, said Yale’s Hussain, Dr. Sami Al-Arian has been “used politically to squash dissent.” The Muslim community must speak out against the injustices taking place in America, he emphasized. Otherwise, everyone’s rights will be in jeopardy.* But in the version of the same story currently available on the WRMEA Web site those sentences – and only those sentences – have disappeared. An Internet archive search indicates that the edits were made sometime after October 2007. Contacted by email on Sunday, the writer of the original article expressed surprise but said she no longer worked at WRMEA and could not explain the edit. Queries sent to WRMEA editors brought no response. They were asked whether either Hussain, or anyone else, had asked for the archived story to be altered (see the revised pages ). *(Editor's note: The point concerning the mysterious edits in the WRMEA article and details about Rashad Hussein's background were initially reported on the Web site of The Global Muslim Brotherhood Daily Report , on Feb. 14, 2010.) * *How to combat terrorism* Some of Hussain’s views on how the U.S. should deal with terrorism and extremism can be found in his writings. A lengthy 2007 article in the *Texas Journal on Civil Liberties & Civil Rights* examined anti-terrorism initiatives in the U.S. in the post-9/11 era, such as a requirement that nonimmigrant visitors from specified countries register for fingerprinting and questioning. Of 25 countries identified, all but North Korea were Islamic, and 17 were Arab. “Some policies appear to be based on the notion that certain characteristics make one more likely to be a terrorist: e.g., membership in a particular religious group, having a particular national origin, and membership in a particular racial group,” Hussain wrote. Not only was selective enforcement unconstitutional, but it might also be “counter-productive from a national security perspective,” he argued, noting for instance that aliens from non-Muslim nations where al-Qaeda had an active presence, such as Britain and Spain, were not targeted. Hussain concluded: “Federal law should adopt a standard that protects national security while forbidding the targeting of non-citizens solely on the basis of their racial, religious, or ethnic backgrounds.” In another article, published by the Brookings Institution in 2008, Hussain and co-author Al-Husein N. Madhany explored the role of Islam in U.S. counterterrorism policy. They said policymakers should understand that people attracted to terrorist ideology would be less persuaded by calls to Western-style freedom and democracy than by “calls to Islam.” “[B]ecause the vast majority of Muslims view Islam as fundamentally opposed to terror and many Muslims associate American freedom and democracy with immorality and impermissible secularism, does it make sense to advertise our efforts as anti-‘Islamic terrorism,’ ‘pro-freedom,’ and ‘pro-democracy?’” Hussain and Madhany asked. “Or, might it be more effective, to focus on the notion that terrorism is antithetical to the teachings of Islam?” Hussain will be the second U.S. envoy to the OIC; President Bush first appointed one in 2008, naming Pakistan-born Texas businessman Sada Cumber to the post. Headquartered in Saudi Arabia, the 40-year-old OIC has become increasingly visible in recent years, thanks to its activism at the U.N., where it continues to promote a campaign against the “defamation” of Islam. The Islamic bloc says there is a need to combat “Islamophobia” that has reared its head since 9/11; critics of the campaign include free speech groups and religious freedom advocates, who call it an attempt to shield Islam and Islamic practices from legitimate scrutiny. From aliens at dataone.in Fri Feb 19 13:31:55 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:31:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Message-ID: <000a01cab139$cde4da20$69ae8e60$@in> Still investigation going on and there is no necessary to create doubts unless you have solid proof. If he speaks for Islamic terrorism in general as well as Hindu terrorism in general is always welcome. Similarly, if he created doubt on malegoan blast that Islamic group is involved were also investigation going on would have been opposed if I have noticed. -----Original Message----- From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:31 PM To: Bipin Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Dear Bipin When Praveen Swami writes about Islamic terrorism and Kashmiri extremists with intricate details (which no other journalist has access to), we believe him gleefully to score our points about Pakistan and so on. But now, when he raises doubts if Hindutva forces were involved in this terror act, we discard him as "no authority". I would like you to see some of the following links to see what an authority Praveen Swami is considered on such matters: http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/display/ssispsru/Mr+Praveen+Swami http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/praveen-swami-lets-the-cat-out-of -the-bag/ http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2008/09/28/praveen-swamis-book-on-the-secre t-jihad-in-kashmir/ http://www.outlookindia.com/peoplefnl.aspx?author=Praveen%20Swami&pid=4139 On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Bipin wrote: > Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want to divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as sleeper cell. > > It's a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject > again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take > it seriously. > > ------- > Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Praveen Swami > > Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group > may have carried out German Bakery bombing > > PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant > Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role > in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the > rogue military officer with rose petals. > > Last week's bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly > story of Abhinav Bharat - the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped > found - back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the > Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik > began. > > In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the > bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva > terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young > Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing > that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a > Hindutva group. > > Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved > in Abhinav Bharat's terror campaign have never been held. Jatin > Chatterjee - better known by his alias Swami Asimanand - is thought to > be hiding out in Gujarat's Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu > proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat's > key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 14:24:55 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:24:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation In-Reply-To: <000a01cab139$cde4da20$69ae8e60$@in> References: <000a01cab139$cde4da20$69ae8e60$@in> Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002190054r6bce69a4i6751aa8bb11ba0f3@mail.gmail.com> So stupid you all are..... Just check how conveniently Javed has maintained a subject line and you are falling to it.And then there are some people with high IQ whose hobby is Hindutva bashing.... Good going .... Enjoy ! Pawan On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Bipin wrote: > > Still investigation going on and there is no necessary to create doubts > unless you have solid proof. If he speaks for Islamic terrorism in general > as well as Hindu terrorism in general is always welcome. Similarly, if he > created doubt on malegoan blast that Islamic group is involved were also > investigation going on would have been opposed if I have noticed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:31 PM > To: Bipin > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Dear Bipin > When Praveen Swami writes about Islamic terrorism and Kashmiri > extremists with intricate details (which no other journalist has > access to), we believe him gleefully to score our points about > Pakistan and so on. But now, when he raises doubts if Hindutva forces > were involved in this terror act, we discard him as "no authority". I > would like you to see some of the following links to see what an > authority Praveen Swami is considered on such matters: > > http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/display/ssispsru/Mr+Praveen+Swami > http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/praveen-swami-lets-the-cat-out-of > -the-bag/ > http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2008/09/28/praveen-swamis-book-on-the-secre > t-jihad-in-kashmir/ > http://www.outlookindia.com/peoplefnl.aspx?author=Praveen%20Swami&pid=4139 > > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Bipin wrote: >> Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble > duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going > on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of > local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want to > divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as > sleeper cell. >> >> It's a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such > fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics > but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in > India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we > act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do > not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to > fight the terrorism. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Javed >> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM >> To: sarai list >> Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation >> >> Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject >> again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take >> it seriously. >> >> ------- >> Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation >> >> Praveen Swami >> >> Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group >> may have carried out German Bakery bombing >> >> PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant >> Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role >> in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the >> rogue military officer with rose petals. >> >> Last week's bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly >> story of Abhinav Bharat - the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped >> found - back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the >> Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik >> began. >> >> In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the >> bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva >> terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young >> Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing >> that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a >> Hindutva group. >> >> Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved >> in Abhinav Bharat's terror campaign have never been held. Jatin >> Chatterjee - better known by his alias Swami Asimanand - is thought to >> be hiding out in Gujarat's Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu >> proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat's >> key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. >> > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4872 (20100216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4872 (20100216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4872 (20100216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 15:09:03 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:39:03 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Maujood - The Sketches Message-ID: <5af37bb1002190139u159d3cbevfaaeb60e4819488d@mail.gmail.com> music from pakistan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzIatAHMbhE From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 15:51:16 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:51:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reasons to read to your child in your mother tongue Message-ID: Here's an interesting post from Rupa Raman's blog. I discovered this via the Pratham Books blog. http://babylovesbooks.com/2010/02/01/reasons-to-read-to-your-child-in-your-mother-tongue/ Have you ever read to your child in a language you don’t usually read in? It’s a parenting experience like none other. And you shouldn’t miss a chance to try it if you can. Although my daughter is fluent in our mother tongue( Tamil), we haven’t really read many books written in Tamil with her. We’re teaching her to identify some of the alphabets and make the effort to ensure that she speaks in Tamil at home( and believe me, it’s tough, once kids start going to daycare or preschool on a regular basis and are exposed to more and more of English everyday). However, we haven’t been able to lay our hands on too many good children’s books written in Tamil. I’ve come across a few that weren’t very well produced. And the ones that I’m looking for don’t seem to be available anywhere. However, a few days ago, I came across Pratham Books, a non-profit trust in India that offers beautiful picture books for kids in Indian languages. The best part is that some of these books are available online on Scribd, so I didn’t have to wait. I just started reading it to my daughter right away. And boy, was it a delight to watch her! Tamil is one of those languages that doesn’t sound exactly the same when you speak as when you write it. No matter how casual or conversational you try to make the writing sound, written Tamil always seems to come across as a little formal and ‘purer’ than spoken Tamil. As a result, when I read to my daughter from the book, the range of expressions that crossed her face went from interested to puzzled to delighted to confused to one of comprehension and wonderment. How I wish I could have captured it on video! Had I plotted her reaction on a graph, the spikes would probably have made a porcupine retreat in defeat. What’s beautiful though – is how she loved the novelty of the experience. She may not have understood all the words at first, but that perked her interest. She could figure out the plot from the visuals, and so tried to relate the story with the images. She was intrigued by the fact that we were reading in Tamil – a language she knew well – and yet, there was something about it that she didn’t fully understand. We read it a couple of times and I explained to her what some of the words meant. Then she asked me to read it again and seemed to enjoy the experience even better. In all, reading Nilaavum Thoppiyum (The Moon and the Cap) and its Hindi version, Chaand ka Tohfa ( The Moon’s Gift) was a delightful, eye opening experience for both of us. It reminded me to put more effort into exposing my daughter to Indian language books so she could begin to appreciate the richness and diversity in these languages and also to encourage her to continue to learn and use our mother tongue. As for M, she seemed to be pretty fascinated by the fact that we were reading from different scripts and pronouncing strange new words. It was almost like a game – like I was reading some secret code or posing a riddle – and she couldn’t wait to figure out what I was saying. In their book, To Learn with Love, authors William and Constance Starr describe Dr. Suzuki’s ‘mother tongue approach’ to teaching students music. His method was based on the simple observation that babies everywhere learn their mother tongue, almost effortlessly. He observed that since babies are constantly exposed to their mother tongue, they pick it up by merely being in the environment they’re in and by repeating what they hear several hundred or thousand times. He borrows this idea and applies it to teaching music. The Suzuki method involves exposing children to music from a young age, playing recordings and encouraging repetitions. And sure enough, kids who are trained in this way for years, do go on to achieve fine musical abilities in due course with exposure, training and consistent practice. In today’s globalized world, where we are all about leveling the playing field and creating a universal language and breaking barriers, it’s not easy to hold on to one’s mother tongue. let alone ensure that our kids do. It’s more convenient and seems more practical to allow a language to fade away than make the effort to weave it into our complex world. “Language should unite, not divide.” “Language is just a means of communication, why make such a fuss?” are some of the arguments we hear in favor of allowing languages to disappear. But, children born in bilingual and multilingual families or those whose parents know more than one language are at a natural advantage over others who don’t share their background. Various studies show the correlation between being bilingual and acquiring proficiency in other fields. Learning foreign languages also seems to be the fashionable thing to do. So, I can’t imagine why anyone would want to throw this natural advantage away, merely because it takes a little more effort to reinforce one’s mother tongue on a regular basis? Maybe it’s time we borrowed Suzuki’s mother tongue approach and began applying it to teaching kids their mother tongue. And if your mother tongue is an Indian language, then children’s books like those from Pratham Books are a great place to start. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 16:24:30 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:24:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002190054r6bce69a4i6751aa8bb11ba0f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <000a01cab139$cde4da20$69ae8e60$@in> <6b79f1a71002190054r6bce69a4i6751aa8bb11ba0f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Folks, you are not getting my point. Probably because you don't read Praveen Swami's articles regularly. If you were following what he writes, this current article is a departure from his usual disclosures about Kashmiri militants. I would request you to take his article seriously. You don't have to take me seriously. On 2/19/10, Pawan Durani wrote: > So stupid you all are..... > > Just check how conveniently Javed has maintained a subject line and > you are falling to it.And then there are some people with high IQ > whose hobby is Hindutva bashing.... > > Good going .... > > Enjoy ! > > Pawan > > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Bipin wrote: >> >> Still investigation going on and there is no necessary to create doubts >> unless you have solid proof. If he speaks for Islamic terrorism in general >> as well as Hindu terrorism in general is always welcome. Similarly, if he >> created doubt on malegoan blast that Islamic group is involved were also >> investigation going on would have been opposed if I have noticed. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:31 PM >> To: Bipin >> Cc: sarai-list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation >> >> Dear Bipin >> When Praveen Swami writes about Islamic terrorism and Kashmiri >> extremists with intricate details (which no other journalist has >> access to), we believe him gleefully to score our points about >> Pakistan and so on. But now, when he raises doubts if Hindutva forces >> were involved in this terror act, we discard him as "no authority". I >> would like you to see some of the following links to see what an >> authority Praveen Swami is considered on such matters: >> >> http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/display/ssispsru/Mr+Praveen+Swami >> http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/praveen-swami-lets-the-cat-out-of >> -the-bag/ >> http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2008/09/28/praveen-swamis-book-on-the-secre >> t-jihad-in-kashmir/ >> http://www.outlookindia.com/peoplefnl.aspx?author=Praveen%20Swami&pid=4139 >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Bipin wrote: >>> Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble >> duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going >> on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of >> local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want >> to >> divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted >> as >> sleeper cell. >>> >>> It's a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such >> fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics >> but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing >> in >> India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we >> act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and >> do >> not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to >> fight the terrorism. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net >>> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] >> On Behalf Of Javed >>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM >>> To: sarai list >>> Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation >>> >>> Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject >>> again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take >>> it seriously. >>> >>> ------- >>> Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation >>> >>> Praveen Swami >>> >>> Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group >>> may have carried out German Bakery bombing >>> >>> PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant >>> Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role >>> in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the >>> rogue military officer with rose petals. >>> >>> Last week's bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly >>> story of Abhinav Bharat - the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped >>> found - back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the >>> Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik >>> began. >>> >>> In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the >>> bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva >>> terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young >>> Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing >>> that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a >>> Hindutva group. >>> >>> Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved >>> in Abhinav Bharat's terror campaign have never been held. Jatin >>> Chatterjee - better known by his alias Swami Asimanand - is thought to >>> be hiding out in Gujarat's Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu >>> proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat's >>> key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. >>> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4872 (20100216) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4872 (20100216) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4872 (20100216) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 16:45:47 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:45:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002181032wc08102eh8e7dd404fb1398@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180257v5e6e4de4me86e3386dcc77e9e@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180416h3411df8w3b2c17f80950ac63@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180435l177e55b8s83046f2e87b3f6e9@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002181032wc08102eh8e7dd404fb1398@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002190315n11cfc620w5f5be323ff647088@mail.gmail.com> Aditya, It is a pity that authors like you don the role of writers and may be journalists to mislead people. And there is absolutely no way to check on you or your kinds, who could twist and turn the meaning of each word for your own whim. You have no idea about a developing story that's why you are still beating around the bush without giving further clarifications about your defence for a news report. There is no reason for me doubt any tip off but despite me writing that there was nothing against you or PTI but only more clarification and follow up in this case, you have consistently argued for the sake of your own ego. This is very apparent from the very beginning since another reader (not you) to reply to a message which was specifically directed towards you. Instead of clarifying or following it up for the readers here, you have been consistently dragging your innocent nephew in this debate to prove a point. I hope moderators are taking a note of this and doing the needful. Anupam On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Ah! Just forgot to mention my nephew doesn't argue unnecessarily. He is a > good boy! > > I am sure after reading your arrogant response that you have no idea about > 'Developing Stories'. Just a Google search on it won't help you, my friend. > > The PTI report wasn't merely 'news'; it was an official brief after the > event and not an 'on ground reportage'. Try and differentiate now; if you > can; and if you aren't in a hurry to respond back. > > How would this incident (story) develop, I wonder!?! > > Don't waste time, Mr. Chakravartty. > > regards > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Aditya, >> >> I cannot but humour you my friend. Because it looks like you have not >> just used a prestigious organisation like PTI but also your friend >> Kshmendra to get into this debate, where pollute this reader's list >> with developing stories. I hope you understand what developing >> stories. This is essentially news which needs regular updation as >> contradictions are bound to rise. You are no different from any of >> these activists who you abuse in this reader's list by screaming >> democratic right to expression. >> >> I would not drag your little nephew into this debate. It is a shame >> that you are not even sparing your relatives by engaging them in a >> defense which is not needed here. All we need is to logically >> understand, break the news. You posted a news item and you thought >> your job was over, therefore I took it up upon myself to deconstruct >> it. I shared with you what i found in the way it was written to which >> you and Kshmendra turned completely blind. I am not denying that the >> attack or the incident did not happen. I have stated that over and >> over again. It is just to show that how news is being reported from >> this region and what actually happens, which nobody knows. It was just >> an attempt to understand it. Kshmendra's reservation for my comments >> was understandable. He was perhaps trying correct me for which I had >> replied that why I thought that this particular news report was little >> concocted. But look at you ... at least leave your nephew from this. >> >> -Anupam >> >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > Dear Anupam, >> > >> > I wonder how can you manage contradicting yourself just so many times >> within >> > minutes. You ask me to react to your detailed understanding and then >> claim >> > the mail was meant for Kshmendra. >> > >> > Just because you regard IANS better than other newspaper/agencies doesn't >> > mean everyone must agree to the same. >> > >> > I am no one to decide what happened there. I wasn't the one to witness >> the >> > incident neither did I report it. >> > >> > Whenever I meet my 3 year old nephew, he politely asks me for a gift and >> > then says 'so you will get it soon'. ok? In hope he remains, I like >> behavior >> > of such cute kids. >> > >> > regards >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:27 PM, anupam chakravartty >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> >> >> The mail was meant for Kshmendra, so let's see what he has to say. >> >> Thanks for sharing the link. I think the PTI report that you have >> >> cited is not worthy enough to be believed as there is another version >> >> of the story by IANS which says the guards were tied up. >> >> >> >> Now you decide: were these guards tied up by the insurgents? or they >> >> were left unharmed? OK? >> >> >> >> -Anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> > Dear Anupam >> >> > >> >> > The first two lines of your recent e-mail on the list read as follows >> - >> >> > * >> >> > "I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish >> I >> >> > had a software by which I could read out the news report in >> question."* >> >> > >> >> > I didn't find it worth enough to read the e-mail further. The above >> >> > lines >> >> > unfortunately are applicable on your good self. I share with you the >> >> > link >> >> - >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> http://www.ptinews.com/news/521987_Militants-attack-cop-post-near-Srinagar--loot-weapons >> >> > >> >> > I don't doubt the news report. So I rest my case. >> >> > >> >> > thanks >> >> > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM, anupam chakravartty >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> >> >> >> >> I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI >> >> >> would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing >> >> >> story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as >> well, >> >> >> I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could >> >> >> kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very >> helpful. >> >> >> >> >> >> And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in my >> >> >> reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your >> reply >> >> >> Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a lot >> >> >> about the kind of news coming out of the valley. >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> >> > Dear Anupam, >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that >> >> answer >> >> >> your >> >> >> > questions? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't >> want >> >> it >> >> >> to >> >> >> > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is me >> >> >> > who >> >> >> > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or >> >> >> 'contradiction' >> >> >> > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well refrain >> >> from >> >> >> > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in >> useless >> >> >> > discussion. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > thanks >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an important >> >> >> >> news >> >> >> >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it and >> >> >> >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to >> >> >> >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you >> >> cannot >> >> >> >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone else >> >> >> >> on >> >> >> >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not >> devalue >> >> >> >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am >> sorry >> >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you or >> >> >> >> anyone posts it on this list. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> >> >> > Dear Friends >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be >> >> >> >> > of >> >> >> >> 'value' >> >> >> >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to >> >> >> ignore >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it >> >> >> >> > names. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take >> >> criticism >> >> >> >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we >> >> move >> >> >> >> ahead >> >> >> >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is >> >> >> >> > it >> >> >> >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let >> >> them >> >> >> >> enjoy >> >> >> >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one >> >> >> >> > opinion >> >> >> >> flow >> >> >> >> > in the network. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > regards >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Dear Rakesh, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a >> >> >> >> >> taste >> >> >> for >> >> >> >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at >> all >> >> >> >> >> disputing >> >> >> >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course >> >> >> >> >> we >> >> >> >> should >> >> >> >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the >> >> >> >> >> corresponding >> >> >> >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. >> >> That >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of >> speech. >> >>  I >> >> >> am >> >> >> >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the >> criticism >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> not >> >> >> >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> best >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to >> >> understand >> >> >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> >> all >> >> >> >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a >> >> >> >> >> single >> >> >> >> >> umbrella >> >> >> >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. >> At >> >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> same >> >> >> >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and >> >> >> >> >> hear >> >> >> such >> >> >> >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India >> had >> >> >> >> >> chosen >> >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. >> The >> >> end >> >> >> >> >> result >> >> >> >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious >> >> >> >> >> fundamentalists >> >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We >> >> are >> >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> >> >> nation >> >> >> >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such >> >> >> >> >> poems >> >> >> from >> >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> freedom of speech point of view. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, >> >> objectively. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Rakesh >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> >> List archive: < >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> >> >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >> >> >> >> Raqs Media Collective >> >> >> >> >> shuddha at sarai.net >> >> >> >> >> www.sarai.net >> >> >> >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Freelance Writer >> >> >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >> >> subscribe >> >> >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Freelance Writer >> >> >> > Cell -  +91-9873297834 >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe >> >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > Freelance Writer >> >> > Cell -  +91-9873297834 >> >> > >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > Freelance Writer >> > Cell -  +91-9873297834 >> > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Writer > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 16:53:02 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:53:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <341380d01002190315n11cfc620w5f5be323ff647088@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d01002180130n17c972c0s4091156cf1ed3beb@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180231x1db45051g6885bc3cae2df317@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180243t2e2635dbt8ab38bdf8a447c3c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180251g6a62a2esd155f35bc77a08ed@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180257v5e6e4de4me86e3386dcc77e9e@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002180416h3411df8w3b2c17f80950ac63@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002180435l177e55b8s83046f2e87b3f6e9@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002181032wc08102eh8e7dd404fb1398@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002190315n11cfc620w5f5be323ff647088@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c691002190323x11d0ac84te4ad1f85bf15882d@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I hope moderators are taking a note of this and doing the needful. Aditya Raj Kaul On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:45 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Aditya, > > It is a pity that authors like you don the role of writers and may be > journalists to mislead people. And there is absolutely no way to check > on you or your kinds, who could twist and turn the meaning of each > word for your own whim. You have no idea about a developing story > that's why you are still beating around the bush without giving > further clarifications about your defence for a news report. There is > no reason for me doubt any tip off but despite me writing that there > was nothing against you or PTI but only more clarification and follow > up in this case, you have consistently argued for the sake of your own > ego. This is very apparent from the very beginning since another > reader (not you) to reply to a message which was specifically directed > towards you. Instead of clarifying or following it up for the readers > here, you have been consistently dragging your innocent nephew in this > debate to prove a point. I hope moderators are taking a note of this > and doing the needful. > > Anupam > > > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Ah! Just forgot to mention my nephew doesn't argue unnecessarily. He is a > > good boy! > > > > I am sure after reading your arrogant response that you have no idea > about > > 'Developing Stories'. Just a Google search on it won't help you, my > friend. > > > > The PTI report wasn't merely 'news'; it was an official brief after the > > event and not an 'on ground reportage'. Try and differentiate now; if you > > can; and if you aren't in a hurry to respond back. > > > > How would this incident (story) develop, I wonder!?! > > > > Don't waste time, Mr. Chakravartty. > > > > regards > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > >> Dear Aditya, > >> > >> I cannot but humour you my friend. Because it looks like you have not > >> just used a prestigious organisation like PTI but also your friend > >> Kshmendra to get into this debate, where pollute this reader's list > >> with developing stories. I hope you understand what developing > >> stories. This is essentially news which needs regular updation as > >> contradictions are bound to rise. You are no different from any of > >> these activists who you abuse in this reader's list by screaming > >> democratic right to expression. > >> > >> I would not drag your little nephew into this debate. It is a shame > >> that you are not even sparing your relatives by engaging them in a > >> defense which is not needed here. All we need is to logically > >> understand, break the news. You posted a news item and you thought > >> your job was over, therefore I took it up upon myself to deconstruct > >> it. I shared with you what i found in the way it was written to which > >> you and Kshmendra turned completely blind. I am not denying that the > >> attack or the incident did not happen. I have stated that over and > >> over again. It is just to show that how news is being reported from > >> this region and what actually happens, which nobody knows. It was just > >> an attempt to understand it. Kshmendra's reservation for my comments > >> was understandable. He was perhaps trying correct me for which I had > >> replied that why I thought that this particular news report was little > >> concocted. But look at you ... at least leave your nephew from this. > >> > >> -Anupam > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> > Dear Anupam, > >> > > >> > I wonder how can you manage contradicting yourself just so many times > >> within > >> > minutes. You ask me to react to your detailed understanding and then > >> claim > >> > the mail was meant for Kshmendra. > >> > > >> > Just because you regard IANS better than other newspaper/agencies > doesn't > >> > mean everyone must agree to the same. > >> > > >> > I am no one to decide what happened there. I wasn't the one to witness > >> the > >> > incident neither did I report it. > >> > > >> > Whenever I meet my 3 year old nephew, he politely asks me for a gift > and > >> > then says 'so you will get it soon'. ok? In hope he remains, I like > >> behavior > >> > of such cute kids. > >> > > >> > regards > >> > > >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:27 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Aditya, > >> >> > >> >> The mail was meant for Kshmendra, so let's see what he has to say. > >> >> Thanks for sharing the link. I think the PTI report that you have > >> >> cited is not worthy enough to be believed as there is another version > >> >> of the story by IANS which says the guards were tied up. > >> >> > >> >> Now you decide: were these guards tied up by the insurgents? or they > >> >> were left unharmed? OK? > >> >> > >> >> -Anupam > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> >> > Dear Anupam > >> >> > > >> >> > The first two lines of your recent e-mail on the list read as > follows > >> - > >> >> > * > >> >> > "I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I > wish > >> I > >> >> > had a software by which I could read out the news report in > >> question."* > >> >> > > >> >> > I didn't find it worth enough to read the e-mail further. The above > >> >> > lines > >> >> > unfortunately are applicable on your good self. I share with you > the > >> >> > link > >> >> - > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > http://www.ptinews.com/news/521987_Militants-attack-cop-post-near-Srinagar--loot-weapons > >> >> > > >> >> > I don't doubt the news report. So I rest my case. > >> >> > > >> >> > thanks > >> >> > > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> > > >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Dear Aditya, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I understand you are not spokesperson for PTI. I do not think PTI > >> >> >> would have been really pleased with you for posting a developing > >> >> >> story. More so, because I searched through PTI archives today as > >> well, > >> >> >> I have not found the input that was posted by you. So if you could > >> >> >> kindly cooperate and state your sources here it would be very > >> helpful. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> And I have stated why I doubt the claims made the news report in > my > >> >> >> reply to Kshmendra's mail. Would definitely look forward to your > >> reply > >> >> >> Aditya. I thank you again for sharing this with us. It speaks a > lot > >> >> >> about the kind of news coming out of the valley. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Thanks > >> >> >> Anupam > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> >> >> > Dear Anupam, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I am not a spokesperson of Press Trust of India (PTI). Does that > >> >> answer > >> >> >> your > >> >> >> > questions? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I shared an important news item with the list; because I didn't > >> want > >> >> it > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> > be missed. How can you say I didn't follow the news; when it is > me > >> >> >> > who > >> >> >> > shared it will the members here on Sarai!?! > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I think someone already has clarified your misconception or > >> >> >> 'contradiction' > >> >> >> > as you say. I don't think every time I am required to guide you. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > While you choose to not ignore 'trash'; you should as well > refrain > >> >> from > >> >> >> > spreading the same 'trash' and not waste our valuable time in > >> useless > >> >> >> > discussion. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > thanks > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Dear Aditya, > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> It is unfortunate that you did not bother to follow an > important > >> >> >> >> news > >> >> >> >> that you had posted on this list. Very patiently I had read it > and > >> >> >> >> pointed out some contradictions which you have not been able to > >> >> >> >> confirm. I am afraid I had to point out these facts because you > >> >> cannot > >> >> >> >> say things like: '"trash' might just be of 'value' to someone > else > >> >> >> >> on > >> >> >> >> the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to ignore and not > >> devalue > >> >> >> >> someone's contribution to the list by calling it names." I am > >> sorry > >> >> >> >> I > >> >> >> >> cannot follow your direction on choosing to ignore trash if you > or > >> >> >> >> anyone posts it on this list. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> -Anupam > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On 2/18/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> >> >> >> > Dear Friends > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just > be > >> >> >> >> > of > >> >> >> >> 'value' > >> >> >> >> > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose > to > >> >> >> ignore > >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it > >> >> >> >> > names. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take > >> >> criticism > >> >> >> >> > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can > we > >> >> move > >> >> >> >> ahead > >> >> >> >> > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or > is > >> >> >> >> > it > >> >> >> >> > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this > forum. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, > let > >> >> them > >> >> >> >> enjoy > >> >> >> >> > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let > one > >> >> >> >> > opinion > >> >> >> >> flow > >> >> >> >> > in the network. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > regards > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> Dear Rakesh, > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a > >> >> >> >> >> taste > >> >> >> for > >> >> >> >> >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not > at > >> all > >> >> >> >> >> disputing > >> >> >> >> >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of > course > >> >> >> >> >> we > >> >> >> >> should > >> >> >> >> >> read such things patiently. I always do. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the > >> >> >> >> >> corresponding > >> >> >> >> >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done > so. > >> >> That > >> >> >> is > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of > >> speech. > >> >> I > >> >> >> am > >> >> >> >> >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the > >> criticism > >> >> is > >> >> >> >> >> not > >> >> >> >> >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> best > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Shuddha > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to > >> >> understand > >> >> >> >> >> that > >> >> >> >> >> all > >> >> >> >> >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a > >> >> >> >> >> single > >> >> >> >> >> umbrella > >> >> >> >> >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating > terrorism. > >> At > >> >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> same > >> >> >> >> >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read > and > >> >> >> >> >> hear > >> >> >> such > >> >> >> >> >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when > India > >> had > >> >> >> >> >> chosen > >> >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. > >> The > >> >> end > >> >> >> >> >> result > >> >> >> >> >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious > >> >> >> >> >> fundamentalists > >> >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. > We > >> >> are > >> >> >> >> >> a > >> >> >> >> >> nation > >> >> >> >> >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such > >> >> >> >> >> poems > >> >> >> from > >> >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> >> freedom of speech point of view. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, > >> >> objectively. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Rakesh > >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> >> >> List archive: < > >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> >> >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> >> >> >> >> Raqs Media Collective > >> >> >> >> >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> >> www.sarai.net > >> >> >> >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Freelance Writer > >> >> >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >> >> subscribe > >> >> >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: > >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> >> > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Freelance Writer > >> >> >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >> subscribe > >> >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> > > >> >> > Freelance Writer > >> >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 > >> >> > > >> >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe > >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > Freelance Writer > >> > Cell - +91-9873297834 > >> > > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe > >> > in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Writer > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Feb 19 20:23:48 2010 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:53:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: References: , , , <93AE9686F98D4583B1348EA1A891AACC@tara>, Message-ID: Proponents of 'azadi- bara- e -Islam'......"Progressive forces" of "national liberation" in "Kashmir".....???.... Regards LA --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:14:33 -0500 > From: justjunaid at gmail.com > To: taraprakash at gmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Tara, > > I share some of your concerns. I too don't want Kashmir to slide into > extremism. But as it is, it is happening anyway as India rules it; > which kind of puts paid to the thought that Indian rule will somehow > stem Kashmir from becoming Yemen (not that Kashmir is becoming Yemen, > countries don't become each other, they have their own histories, > their own politico-economic-geographic reasons, their own unique > mixtures of ideas about the world, and also Yemen is superior to > Kashmir in many many different ways). I think growth of religious > extremism is affecting so many countries around the world and I have > yet to come across any convincing, general, understanding for it. My > hope is that religious extremism is the last sigh of the ages bygone > than a sign of things to come. > > And then religious extremism is not a reason why a people can't be > free, or why countries shouldn't exist. In a way the fact that a > people aren't free is a big reason why religious extremism takes hold. > Religious extremists hijack a people's genuine and legitimate > aspirations for freedom. The occupiers often like this scenario for > they can project to the world that the national liberation struggle is > actually a struggle to establish an exclusivist, dominance of the > extremists. The only answer to this commingling of extremist-occupier > mutual interest is solidarity with progressive forces of national > liberation. In Kashmir the progressive forces have always been a > common target for India and Pakistan, and have over the years been > subdued in many ways, and largely because of lack of solidarity from > progressive forces in India and Pakistan, many of who still speak in a > language authorized and allowed by the nationalist discourses in their > respective states. > > To your second question, the one which is for your personal > information, I don't think India or Pakistan are "evil" in themselves. > But it is my belief that as the rational bureaucratic order in the > states crystallizes they become even more irrational than ever, and it > seems states like to "play" with power, like small kids, they want to > test its limits, to see what else it can do, how much it can dominate > other people, how much it can torture them, how much can it fool its > own citizens, how much can it make them speak its words, till citizens > become mini clones of the state. There is a seductive nature to this > power, which continuously wants to take things to the edge, to hold > out till the end. But it is always a big gamble. I have been thinking > about this one question a lot: Why would any Indian really care if > Kashmir was under India's rule or not? What if Indian tourists were > guaranteed that their travels to Kashmir will not be unnecessarily > restricted? And their access to pilgrimage sites would in no case be > blocked? That a free Kashmir will be friendly to all its neighbors? > That it will not allow its soil to be used against its neighbors? > Isn't that enough "ransom" you can demand for returning a people their > freedom? > > I don't see much difference between India and Pakistan. They are both > poor and muscular, both are in real deep shit. But since many Indians > don't like to be "hyphenated" with Pakistan these days, and like to be > seen as competitors of China, let me say that China too is poor and > muscular, and in deep shit. > > Junaid > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Tara Prakash wrote: > > Thanks Junaid. Point taken. People should have right to self determination. > > First scenario is that Kashmir becomes a sovereign state. What would you say > > to those skeptics who are afraid, genuinely or otherwise, that a new country > > where fundamentalism has enjoyed some welcoming constituency in the past, > > will become another safe haven for the destructive elements linked to Al > > qaeda ideology to pursue their destructive agenda. Do you think people are > > right to be skeptical that Kashmir as a free nation will become like Yeman, > > or worse, Somalia? > > > > My second query, again for my personal information, and it is about the > > second scenario. I have heard people in the past that Pakistan is lesser > > evil than India. How do they justify this and do you agree with them? This > > is an international listbut when it comes to Kashmir, it appears that > > Kashmir on the Pakistani side does not exist or that there is no military > > presence. Are the people on Pakistani side free? > > > > > > Best > > TaraPrakash > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junaid" > > To: "Tara Prakash" > > Cc: "S. Jabbar" ; "Sarai" > > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:57 AM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > > > > > Hi Tara, > > > > I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of > > parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let > > ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze > > our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by > > itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane > > solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate > > of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if > > we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums > > (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more > > hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." > > > > Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and > > Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who > > don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let > > Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) > > be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create > > conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, > > negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. > > When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 > > Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve > > issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate > > a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international > > observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people > > who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and > > negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole > > thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the > > the process and its outcome. > > > > Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on > > the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of > > this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of > > states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and > > aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and > > the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. > > > > Junaid > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash wrote: > >> > >> Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. > >> It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" > >> To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" > >> Cc: "Sarai" > >> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > >> > >> > >> The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 > >> and > >> included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, > >> Ladakh, > >> Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about solutions > >> then > >> you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people > >> and > >> not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > >> > >> > >>> From: TaraPrakash > >>> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 > >>> To: Junaid > >>> Cc: > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > >>> > >>> Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this > >>> old > >>> > >> problem. > >> Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which > >>> > >>> Kashmiris" was > >> > >> not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri > >>> > >>> nationality, or > >> > >> unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just > >>> > >>> canceling the > >> > >> noise. > >> JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the > >>> > >>> brutal Mujahaddins, in > >> > >> their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, > >>> > >>> moved to J&K. From > >> > >> then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their > >>> > >>> homes. Every > >> > >> dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women > >>> > >>> were told > >> > >> to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces > >>> > >>> was their > >> > >> fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred > >>> > >>> and if > >> > >> that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being > >>> > >>> vocal. > >> > >> Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they > >>> > >>> Kashmiris? But > >> > >> they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. > >>> > >>> Aren't they > >> > >> Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are > >>> > >>> Kashmiris in > >> > >> POK free? > >> Those who are part of National conference or PDP, > >>> > >>> aren't they Kashmiris? > >> > >> Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the > >>> > >>> question still remains which > >> > >> Kashmiris? > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: > >>> > >>> "Junaid" > >> > >> To: "Tara Prakash" > >> Cc: > >>> > >>> > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM > >> Subject: Re: > >>> > >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > >> > >> > >> Dear Tara, > >> > >> I quote you: "But > >>> > >>> isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? > >> > >> Which Kashmiris?" End. > >> > >> I > >>> > >>> absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two > >> > >> follow-up > >>> > >>> questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones > >> > >> that will lead us to > >>> > >>> specifics. If anything they will further push us > >> > >> into a metaphysics of denial. > >>> > >>> I assume you know enough about Kashmir > >> > >> and are aware that there is no shortage > >>> > >>> of solutions. Indian > >> > >> government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a > >>> > >>> political issue, > >> > >> and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that > >>> > >>> remains > >> > >> is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The > >>> > >>> "right > >> > >> solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free > >>> > >>> and > >> > >> fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives > >>> > >>> for > >> > >> Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made > >> it > >>> > >>> clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be > >> > >> forced down > >>> > >>> the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's > >> > >> legitimacy and > >>> > >>> authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows > >> > >> that is, can go to > >>> > >>> "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the > >> > >> problem). The first step would > >>> > >>> be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of > >> > >> their problem, that is allow them to > >>> > >>> find the right solution with a > >> > >> guarantee that it will be accepted. > >> > >> The second > >>> > >>> question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we > >> > >> really keep > >>> > >>> telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By > >> > >> asking this question, are > >>> > >>> you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? > >> > >> If you believe that "the people" > >>> > >>> have to elect their representatives, > >> > >> how can you in the same breath deny the > >>> > >>> existence of those same > >> > >> people? > >> > >> I guess the first "concrete suggestions" > >>> > >>> would be the dismantling of > >> > >> the draconian military and police apparatus from > >>> > >>> Kashmir: i.e. 1. > >> > >> remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of > >>> > >>> military and > >> > >> police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA > >>> > >>> and > >> > >> Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies > >> involved > >>> > >>> in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. > >> > >> Allow Kashmiris to > >>> > >>> peacefully express their dissent (remove > >> > >> restrictions on free speech and > >>> > >>> assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the > >> > >> stranglehold that the security agencies > >>> > >>> have over the everyday life of > >> > >> people through technics of surveillance and > >>> > >>> proliferation of threats. > >> > >> Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next > >>> > >>> ones. At least it > >> > >> will show that the Indian government is sincere in its > >>> > >>> efforts to > >> > >> solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to > >>> > >>> tire > >> > >> people out. > >> > >> Junaid > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to > >>> be solved, with the full > >>> involvement of Kashmiris." > >>> Agreed. But isn't it > >>> time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > >>> Kashmiris? A democratic > >>> exercise requires people to elect their > >>> representatives who can talk on > >>> their behalf. But those who are chosen, > >>> are > >>> found to be going "to any > >>> extent to please their masters in Delhi" > >>> I don't think the Indian govt or UN > >>> can talk to every Kashmiri on this > >>> earth > >>> for the resolution of the > >>> problem. > >>> It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions > >>> towards > >>> resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate > >>> > >>> people, > >>> so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a > >>> climate > >>> towards > >>> resolution of the issue. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Junaid" > >>> To: ; "Junaid" > >>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > >>> Subject: > >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > >>> > >>> > >>>> Dozens of young boys have > >>> > >>> been arrested across Kashmir under draconian > >>>> > >>>> laws over the last few weeks. > >>> > >>> The charges that have been filed against > >>>> > >>>> them range from "waging war > >>> > >>> against the state" to defiling "state > >>>> > >>>> honor". In recent months Indian > >>> > >>> military and police commanders have > >>>> > >>>> described protests in Kashmir as > >>> > >>> "agitational terrorism" and > >>>> > >>>> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify > >>> > >>> violent clampdown on > >>>> > >>>> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 > >>> > >>> people, mostly > >>>> > >>>> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured > >>> > >>> by > >>>> > >>>> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the > >>>> > >>> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile > >>>> > >>>> thousands of > >>> > >>> people have been injured. Many of them will be left with > >>>> > >>>> permanent physical > >>> > >>> disabilities. The police authorities have banned > >>>> > >>>> any peaceful assembly of > >>> > >>> people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and > >>>> > >>>> other towns have reported > >>> > >>> police brutalities. Even the villages are > >>>> > >>>> not being spared. Only yesterday, > >>> > >>> mourning villagers were attacked by > >>>> > >>>> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South > >>> > >>> Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured > >>>> > >>>> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most > >>> > >>> of the injuries were inflicted > >>>> > >>>> above the waist showing an intention to > >>> > >>> kill. > >>>> > >>>> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, > >>> > >>> but > >>>> > >>>> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel > >>> > >>> dimension. > >>>> > >>>> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline > >>> > >>> and > >>>> > >>>> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian > >>>> > >>> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to > >>>> > >>>> deceive > >>> > >>> its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris > >>>> > >>>> in Azad > >>> > >>> Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy > >>>> > >>>> has been there > >>> > >>> for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought > >>>> > >>>> back every few years > >>> > >>> to earn brownie points. > >>>> > >>>> National Conference government which has proved > >>> > >>> its inability to > >>>> > >>>> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't > >>> > >>> even remove > >>>> > >>>> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has > >>> > >>> sought to > >>>> > >>>> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent > >>> > >>> to > >>>> > >>>> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for > >>>> > >>> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel > >>>> > >>> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and > >>>> > >>>> Kashmir > >>> > >>> police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, > >>>> > >>>> perhaps in a > >>> > >>> bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian > >>>> > >>>> army's help. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart > >>>> > >>>> from > >>> > >>> the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is > >>>> > >>>> time, the > >>> > >>> conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity > >>>> > >>>> with > >>> > >>> Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's > >>>> > >>>> inhuman > >>> > >>> tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to > >>>> > >>>> stop human > >>> > >>> rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that > >>>> > >>>> Kashmir is a > >>> > >>> political issue that needs to be solved, with the full > >>>> > >>>> involvement of > >>> > >>> Kashmiris. > >>>> > >>>> _____________________ > >>>> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K > >>> > >>> gov; > >>>> > >>>> Riyaz Wani > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 > >>> > >>>> > >>>> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for > >>>> > >>> Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or life > >>>> > >>>> in > >>> > >>> jail. > >>>> > >>>> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against > >>> > >>> eight > >>>> > >>>> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week > >>>> > >>> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section > >>>> > >>>> 121 of > >>> > >>> CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home > >>>> > >>>> Department > >>> > >>> told The Indian Express that the government was ready with > >>>> > >>>> PSAs against ł20 > >>> > >>> more such youths˛. > >>>> > >>>> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court > >>> > >>> on Monday. Police > >>>> > >>>> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon > >>> > >>> granted by Judge > >>>> > >>>> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told > >>> > >>> the court, > >>>> > >>>> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and > >>> > >>> security > >>>> > >>>> forces. > >>>> > >>>> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said > >>> > >>> the youths were held > >>>> > >>>> in random raids across the city and were not involved > >>> > >>> in > >>>> > >>>> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of > >>> > >>> CrPC. > >>>> > >>>> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety > >>> > >>> Act > >>>> > >>>> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be > >>>> > >>> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released > >>>> > >>> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during > >>>> > >>>> protests > >>> > >>> over the death of two women in Shopian. > >>>> > >>>> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said > >>> > >>> he was not in a position to give łthe > >>>> > >>>> exact number of youths˛ booked under > >>> > >>> PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am > >>>> > >>>> out of station and donąt have the exact > >>> > >>> number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian > >>>> > >>>> Express. > >>>> Police say waging war against > >>> > >>> country, judge not impressed > >>>> > >>>> _____________ > >>>> Police say waging war > >>> > >>> against country, judge not impressed > >>>> > >>>> Peerzada Ashiq > >>>> > >>> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com > >>>> > >>>> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted > >>> > >>> Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a > >>>> > >>>> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows > >>> > >>> of chairs. łYes madam. > >>>> > >>>> Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 > >>> > >>> jostled youth with red > >>>> > >>>> cheeks and red hands because of cold. > >>>> > >>>> This is > >>> > >>> no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday > >>>> > >>>> in downtown > >>> > >>> Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The > >>>> > >>>> police presented > >>> > >>> them before the court on Monday for extending their > >>>> > >>>> police remand. But > >>> > >>> after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the > >>>> > >>>> boys to judicial remand > >>> > >>> for 15 days. > >>>> > >>>> łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in > >>> > >>> advance?˛ > >>>> > >>>> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. > >>> > >>> łThrough > >>>> > >>>> reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. > >>>> > >>>> łHow > >>> > >>> is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these > >>>> > >>>> reliable > >>> > >>> sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation > >>>> > >>>> officer, looking > >>> > >>> at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, > >>>> > >>>> and involved for the > >>> > >>> last five years.˛ > >>>> > >>>> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when > >>> > >>> Zahid, one of the > >>>> > >>>> accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time > >>> > >>> we are in the > >>>> > >>>> lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, > >>> > >>> who was on > >>>> > >>>> the bike when the police arrested him. > >>>> > >>>> The boy, wearing a > >>> > >>> pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are > >>>> > >>>> joined by others in the > >>> > >>> room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, > >>>> > >>>> requesting them to wipe tears > >>> > >>> and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be > >>>> > >>>> done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief > >>> > >>> Minister Omar Abdullah told the > >>>> > >>>> media we are launching a crackdown against > >>> > >>> stone-pelters, the police > >>>> > >>>> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in > >>>> > >>>> heavy > >>> > >>> chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against > >>>> > >>>> the state and > >>> > >>> insulting the national honour. The punishment includes > >>>> > >>>> life imprisonment. > >>> > >>> The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar > >>>> > >>>> and were presented > >>> > >>> before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. > >>>> > >>>> Lawyer Joo contested > >>> > >>> that the police cannot impose the waging a war > >>>> > >>>> against the nation unless a > >>> > >>> magistrate has done an investigation in a > >>>> > >>>> case and the police cannot do it > >>> > >>> on their own. > >>>> > >>>> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a > >>> > >>> row, their > >>>> > >>>> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their > >>> > >>> innocence: > >>>> > >>>> łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and > >>> > >>> arrested > >>>> > >>>> us,˛ they said. > >>>> > >>>> While a policeman shouted back: łThey have > >>> > >>> snatched our peace.˛ > >>>> > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>>> > >>>> Critiques & > >>> > >>> Collaborations > >>>> > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>> > >>> with > >>>> > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > >>> > >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> > >>>> List archive: > >>> > >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ______________________ > >>> > >>> ___________________ > >> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >>> > >>> city. > >> > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to > >>> > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > >> To > >>> > >>> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > >> List > >>> > >>> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 10:20:35 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:20:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Online course -- Green Action: Creating Sustainable Communities - Mar 2010 Message-ID: >From http://p2pu.org/green-action-creating-sustainable-communities-mar-2010 How sustainable is your community? How sustainable does it have the potential to be? This course is going to get at the principles and practices that are making communities everywhere more sustainable. Sustainability is guiding and empowering communities to develop and evolve in ways that are more just, transparent, healthier and more environmentally responsible. Many communities, such as Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA, are, in fact, defining their identities by how sustainable they are today, and aspire to be. Green is good! But what exactly is this new green—sustainability—and how do you harness it to improve the quality of (all) life where you live? This course has two main objectives: 1) To examine and understand sustainability as a visioning and organizing principle for communities. 2) To apply this knowledge toward developing the beginnings of a sustainability plan for our own communities (defined at whatever scale you wish: neighborhood, group, work, school, city, town, region). Learning exercises in this course will build toward these plans. We’ll work collaboratively and individually and the final project can be in whatever communications medium you prefer: written, graphic, video, audio, digital, a mix. We, ourselves, will come together as a community virtually. A course wiki, video conferencing and other digital means will connect and engage us. Areas of sustainability we will cover are: Foundations and Origins; Grassroots and Government; Greening of Business; Education; Your Community; Greenwashing and Other Perils. From pkray11 at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 10:50:22 2010 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (Prakash K Ray) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:50:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mallika Sarabhai's letter to Amitabh Bachchan Message-ID: <98f331e01002192120mf5daa9fnc87230ea532ee896@mail.gmail.com> Text of Mallika Sarabhai's letter to Amitabh Bachchan: My dear Bachchanji, Greetings from a Gujarati. You are indeed a fine actor. You are an intelligent man and a shrewd businessman. But should I believe in your endorsements? Let’s take a brief look at what you proclaim you believe in (albeit for huge sums of money). BPL, ICICI, Parker and Luxor pens,Maruti Versa, Cadbury chocolates. Nerolac paints. Dabur, Emami, Eveready, Sahara City Homes, D’damas, Binani Cement and Reliance. And now Gujarat. I wonder how you decide what to endorse. Is your house built with Binani Cement? Do you really like Cadbury’s chocolates or do you have to resort to Dabar’s hajmola (whose efficacy you have earlier checked) after eating them? And having endorsed two pens, one very upmarket and one rather down, which one do you use? Have you, except perhaps for the shooting of the ad, ever driven or been driven in a Versa? Do you know whether the Nerolac paint in your home ( you do use it don’t you?) has lead in it that can poison you slowly as it does so many people? Or are the decisions entirely monetary? It has been reported that no direct fee will be paid to you for being my Brand Ambassador. So, with no monetary decision to guide you, how did you decide to say yes? Did you check on the state of the State? I doubt it, for the decision and the announcement came from one single meeting. And I somehow doubt that you have been following the news on Gujarat closely. So, as a Gujarati, permit me to introduce my State to you. Everyone knows of our vibrancy, of the billions and trillions pouring into our State through the two yearly jamborees called Vibrant Gujarat. But did you know that by the government’s own admission no more than 23% of these have actually moved beyond the MOU stage? That while huge subsidies are being granted to our richest business houses, over 75000 small and medium businesses have shut down rendering one million more people jobless? You know of Gujarat’s fast paced growth and the FDI pouring in, you have no doubt seen pictures of the Czars of the business world lining up to pour money to develop us. To develop whom? Did you know that our poor are getting poorer? That while the all India reduction in poverty between ’93 and 2005 is 8.5%, in Gujarat it is a mere 2.8%? That we have entire farmer families committing suicide, not just the male head of the household? You have heard of how some mealy mouthed NGO types have been blocking the progress of the Narmada project, how the government has prevailed, and water is pouring down every thirsty mouth and every bit of thirsty land. But did you know that in the 49 years since it was started, and in spite of the Rs.29,000 crores spent on it, only 29% of the work is complete? That the construction is so poor (lots of sand added to the you- know- which cement perhaps) that over the last 9 years there have been 308 breaches, ruining lakhs of farmers whose fields were flooded, ruining the poorest salt farmers whose salt was washed away? That whereas in 1999, 4743 of Gujarat’s villages were without drinking water, within two years that figure had gone up to 11,390 villages ? (I can not even begin to project those figures for today – but do know that the figure has gone up dramatically rather than down.) With our CM, hailed as the CEO of Gujarat, we have once again achieved number one status – in indebtedness. In 2001 the State debt was Rs.14000 crores. This was before the State became a multinational company. Today it stands at Rs.1,05,000 crores. And to service this debt we pay a whopping Rs7000 crores a year, 25% of our annual budget. Meanwhile our spending on education is down, no new public hospitals for the poor are being built, fishermen are going a begging as the seas turn turgid with effluents, more mothers die at birth per thousand than in the rest of India, and our general performance on the Human Development Index is nearly the first – from the bottom. One rape a day, 17 cases of violence against women, and , over the last ten years, 8802 suicides and 18152 “accidental “ deaths of women are officially reported. You can imagine the real figures. You have said that you are our Ambassador because we have Somnath and Gandhi. Somnath was built for people. Gandhiji was a man of the people. Do the people of this State matter to you? If they do, perhaps your decision will be different. I hope you will read this letter and decide. In warmth and friendship, Mallika -- Prakash K Ray 0 987 331 331 5 www.cinemela.youthv.com http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=118193556385&ref=ts http://twitter.com/cinemela From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Feb 18 13:51:15 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:51:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <261DBB8C-3A30-414B-BCD1-2C45897FE347@sarai.net> <6353c691002180000t614a4f29n3ee7b84388df6321@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D737D2D-F9CB-49F6-8E1B-D531F893DD5B@sarai.net> Dear All, Nobody denies, or has denied anyone, the right to purvey their brand of trash on this list. So long as what is being said is not defamatory, libelious, sexist, racist or homophobic. The list evolved a consensus on these matters a while ago. So, to, insist that calling someone's opinion 'trash' is a violation of their (the trash purveyor's) right to free speech, is misleading, and disingenuous. I have every intention of respecting everyone's freedom to purvey trash. I have every intention of calling trash by its name when necessary. The two intentions are not mutually contradictory. My calling 'trash', trash, does not take away anyone's freedom to post trash. Let's stay focused and not create, or be misled into creating, false martyrdoms, all over again. best Shuddha On 18-Feb-10, at 1:30 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Friends > > Something Shri Shuddhabrata Sengupta calls 'trash' might just be of > 'value' > to someone else on the list. Even if it isn't, you can choose to > ignore and > not devalue someone's contribution to the list by calling it names. > > I hope the words you preach gives you the patience to take criticism > yourself which unfortunately you haven't been able to do. > > We are open to discussion, debate and criticism. But, how can we > move ahead > ignoring the basic courtesy of 'freedom of one's opinion'. Or is it > 'liberty' just for the moderators and not members of this forum. > > If the moderators only want their viewpoints to be followed, let > them enjoy > and also please let me know so that I can back out and let one > opinion flow > in the network. > > regards > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > >> Dear Rakesh, >> >> Of course the poem is trash. And of course any person with a taste >> for >> trash has the right to send trash on to the list. I am not at all >> disputing >> the right of any person to subject us to garbage. And of course we >> should >> read such things patiently. I always do. >> >> But, the right to send trash on to the list comes with the >> corresponding >> obligation to be prepared to be criticised for having done so. >> That is the >> responsibility that comes with practising the freedom of speech. >> I am >> always open to be criticised on this list, provided the criticism >> is not >> defamatory or libel. I hope everyone else is as well. >> >> best >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 5:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> The poem is a complete trash as it completely refuses to >> understand that >> all >> Pakistanis are not of one kind and can't be brought under a single >> umbrella >> of being those who are responsible for perpetrating terrorism. At >> the same >> time, we should be prepared and have the patience to read and hear >> such >> comments. Infact, it's not our mistake. Long back, when India had >> chosen >> the >> path to be democratic, Nehru had said that India is for all. The >> end result >> is there for all to see. It's for all kinds of religious >> fundamentalists >> and >> secular humanity-oriented people who are against each other. We are a >> nation >> of extremes and variations. So nothing wrong in writing such poems >> from the >> freedom of speech point of view. >> >> But yes, the poem is a trash in terms of it's content, objectively. >> >> Rakesh >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Writer > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From aliens at dataone.in Sat Feb 20 13:22:42 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:22:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 6.0 / 5.0] COMMON MAN'S CONCERN: INTERNAL SECURITY Message-ID: <002801cab201$aed2ea50$0c78bef0$@in> During my... interactions with the Central Government, I raised two very important aspects ... Price Rise and Internal Security. I personally and very strongly feel these two should be on top in any Central Government's priority as it has an impact on a common man's life. So I thought today I will share my views with you through this blog... NARENDRA MODI http://www.narendramodi.in/speeches_textfile/speeches_textfile_detail/91 Respected Prime Minister Shri Manmohan Singhji, Hon. Union Home Minister Shri P.Chidambaramji, Hon. Union Ministers, Hon. Chief Ministers and Ladies & Gentlemen. It is indeed a welcome step by the Union government to institutionalize this high level forum for deliberations and policy actions in the matter of internal security of the country. In view of the security concerns of the country vis-à-vis various developments around the subcontinent and the increased global concern involving terrorism coupled with almost regular warning received on threat of fresh terrorists attack like 26/11 incident in Mumbai, the deliberations on internal security assume great significance. Although, many steps are being taken by the concerned states and the Union government, Naxalite menace is looming large in many parts of the country as the recent news reports show. It is very important at this stage that both the State as well as the Central Governments are seen working together in our endeavor to strengthen our internal security mechanism, provide our forces engaged in maintenance of law and order with better physical infrastructure, resources and appropriate legal backing. It really saddens me when every fortnight I hear rejoinders and talk about dossiers being supplied to the neighboring country on the involvement of people and state agencies of that country in the shameful act of terrorism in Mumbai on 26th November 2008. I would strongly urge that the time is ripe when we build our inherent strength and institutional mechanisms so that we do not have to rely upon external forces for bringing perpetrators of crime against our people and institutions within our territory to book. To be successful in that objective it is important that not only we are strong but are also perceived as strong by the subversive elements within and outside India who are out to subvert the peace & tranquility in our country. Coming to the agenda issued for today's conference, I have to say with lot of pain that the agenda does not include action taken on deliberations which had taken place in previous conferences and it also does not include policy responses of Government of India on issues which were flagged. I must mention that in the previous conference on Internal Security on 17thAugust 2009, I had emphasized the need to have fine balance in new Legislations. I had made reference to the scope given to the National Investigation Agency and categorically mentioned that the appointment of Director of NIA should follow the same procedure as is being followed in matter of appointment of Director, CBI. I had also raised concern as to how the proposed amendments in Cr.P.C. would make our men in Uniform ineffective in matters of crime investigation. On the contrary, the current agenda seeks to take general consent of State governments to investigation of FICN related offences by CBI. With deep anguish and pain I want to ask whether the Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India has bothered to go through provisions of NIA Act 2008. The National Investigation Agency Act 2008 provides powers of taking over investigation of FICN related offences in the schedule of offences to be investigated by NIA. So, why should there be need for asking the general consent of state government for CBI to investigate FICN offences? Did Government of India try to look in to the track record of CBI in investigation of offences which it is already seized with? Is the CBI able to timely investigate cases already in its hand? However, I wonder what this inclusion of general consent for CBI to investigate FICN related offences tries to achieve implicitly. I believe our Founding Fathers of the Constitution had a long vision when they kept Law and Order as a state subject. They had firm belief that for a vast country like ours, it is the State government which is best positioned to deal with law and order issues. If I may say so, for punishing criminals terrorizing our people from abroad the Central Government has to take the leadership role. I hope that in the matters of fugitives like Dawood Ibrahim or perpetrators of Mumbai incident, the Central Government rises to the occasion and exhibits its strength and goes beyond giving dossiers and brings culprits of crimes against our society to book. As to the issue of tinkering with the basic feature of our Constitution and bypassing statutory provisions as mentioned in Delhi Police Establishment Act governing the Central Bureau of Investigation, there is absolutely no question of giving such general consent. If the Government of India thinks that the present scheme of distribution of powers between the Centre and the States needs revisiting, then the issue may be looked in to totality beginning with the present structure of the Constitution and we will participate in those discussions. (1) Status of current internal security scenario: In the last conference on Internal Security we had deliberated upon issues which impacted internal security of the nation and many suggestions were made by the participants. Internal security threatened by organized crime and terrorism etc. is required to be confronted with strong resolve which should not be limited to physically strengthening the law enforcement mechanism alone. Our policy decisions and laws to deal with such issues should have enough teeth. The biggest issue concerning internal security, to my mind, is lack of adequate legal provisions to support our efforts. We had deliberated upon issues of threats from Naxalites and Separatists in Kashmir and the North East. I understand that the Government of India is definitely taking action to address the threats emanating from separatist forces mentioned above. It is no longer a secret that the arms & ammunition used by these subversive, separatist elements that are out to destroy unity and integrity of India are smuggled through our porous borders. I must emphasize that there is very thin line between what may be a diplomatic issue and what may become an issue impacting our internal security. I would urge the Government of India to seriously address this issue as not just a diplomatic issue but also as an issue seriously concerning the integrity of nation and status of internal security in our country. (2) Capacity Building: It is imperative that to cope up with the increased threats to internal security on account of advancement in technology, sponsorship of subversive activities from across the border and increase in population pressure, capacity building of the law enforcement agencies is sine quo non. Capacity building in an integrated manner to achieve full potential of the resources both physical and human should be our focus. The State is taking prompt and effective action for the maintenance of law and order, investigation of offences, detection of crime and prosecution of offenders. There has been perceptible fall in the caste and communal conflicts in Gujarat with the result that throughout the year 2009 there was not even a single major communal incident in the state of Gujarat. The general election to the Parliament, bye elections to the Assembly and elections to the local bodies have been successfully conducted without any reported incident of violence. Gujarat has taken initiative to have integrated and holistic approach in capacity building and strengthening of law enforcement agencies. We have concentrated on strengthening of infrastructure in terms of setting up of new Police stations, Police out posts considering the geographical spread and the long coast line. The State has given attention to recruitment of personnel in all cadres; augmentation of armed police force; Establishment of Commando units etc. The state has suitably amended all Recruitment rules incorporating appropriate qualifications and standards. The State has made it mandatory for its employees to have computer skill in all cadres of class III and above to equip our forces to face future challenges. We have developed appropriate training infrastructure backed by “Raksha Shakti University” to impart physical, behavioral and other necessary training to different cadres of personnel to deal with various crimes and law and order situations. Different training modules have been evolved for personnel dealing in cyber crime, economic offences, crimes against women and children and for those who are handling dog squad, bomb disposal squad or camel squad. Gujarat houses many industrial complexes which can be termed as National Assets. These assets are located perilously close to our hostile neighbor near the coastal areas. To strengthen and to provide support for the security needs of these vital national assets, the Government of Gujarat has created four new battalions of Armed Police. We have also examined the issue of geographical spread of districts for effective supervision and policing. Kachchh is one of the largest districts in India and shares its border with Pakistan. For effective policing and for effective supervision, we have decided to bifurcate the district into two police districts. During the last three years the State Government has undertaken an exercise to fill up the vacancies in existing police set up besides creating dedicated and specialized police units. The State has come out with separate policies to recruit personnel for different cadres ranging from dog handlers, camel riders, bomb disposal squad, and personnel for police band to armed policemen. In the current year we will be completing recruitment of 680 Police Sub-Inspectors and 8734 police constables. We will also be recruiting 143 armed Police Sub Inspectors and 4264 armed special reserve police constables. In the current year we are raising two state reserve police groups which will cater to the security needs of the vital installations in and around the gulf of Kachchh area. The State of Gujarat has since 1997, established a Gujarat Industrial Security Force which comprises about 2500 security personnel. Gujarat has also laid emphasis on training of the police personnel for their capacity building. In the four police training institutes in Gujarat about 6000 police personnel have been trained in last one year. We have also undertaken a conscious decision to train specialized units like Special Operations Groups and Anti Terrorist Squads personnel in higher level of skills. Accordingly such specialized groups are trained in cyber skills, forensic skills and all weather combat exercises. We have also trained one company of each battalion of State Reserve Police in Disaster Management Capabilities. We have earmarked a special unit for detection and control of Oil thefts from ONGC's pipelines and another unit for detection and control of thefts from electricity transmission lines. Due to these efforts of the State Government, thefts worth crores of rupees have been effectively prevented. (3) Combating Economic Offences Organized crime gangs and terrorists require as well as generate large sums of money through their organized scale of criminal operation and through systemic methods of accumulating and investing these proceeds of crime. This dirty money subsequently becomes source of funding for sponsoring and supporting further organized criminal and terrorist activities. This dirty money is then laundered by kingpins of such organized gangs either in India or abroad. This menace of money laundering is a threat to our national security. To deal with this problem of money laundering, Government of Gujarat has constituted a Special anti Money Laundering Cell headed by an officer of the rank of Addl. DGP in which representatives of intelligence and ATS are members. Within four months of constitution of the money laundering cell, it has been successful in busting two organized money laundering activities running in to crores. The police in Gujarat are adequately equipped and are competent to investigate and take effective action in the matter of FICN related offences. It is surprising that general consensus is being sought to hand over FICN related cases to the CBI when NIA has been empowered to investigate such offences. Further, an issue is pending before the larger bench of the Supreme Court as to whether any case can be handed over to the CBI without state government's consent. (4) Strengthening of Intelligence Setup. I may remind this august forum that it was accepted last time to set up Regional Training Centers for intelligence personnel. However, on the ground no such action has been initiated. I urge the Union government to execute the decisions taken in this august forum. I have been emphasizing since earlier occasions that a dedicated cadre of intelligence officers and staff is required not only to gather intelligence but also to be posted in many vital installations and busy public places as multi-layered security system. Intelligence personnel with specific training on behavioral science and capability of psychological reading of suspects' mind are required even to avoid unnecessary hassles of long queues in security frisking. We should also adopt latest technology and system of intelligence gathering and analysis for which the states are required to be strengthened. The State Government has initiated a process of restructuring of the State IB as per the guidelines of Ministry of Home Affairs. We have created 44 posts of Intelligence Officers and very shortly we will be recruiting suitable persons for this dedicated cadre. The State is also having a 24 x 7 control room at state level as well as at each of the district level. The SMAC network is also operational. The State control room has been rechristened as Joint Operations Centre. Gujarat has undertaken an exercise for organizational strengthening of intelligence set up. The anti-terrorist squad and SOG have been brought directly within the ambit of State Intelligence Bureau so that in times of necessity of prompt investigative action the intelligence agency may move beyond the collection of intelligence to investigation of offences. (5) Strengthening of Counter Terrorism Capabilities. We have tried to build effective counter terrorism capabilities and tried to give it an institutional set up. Accordingly, we have constituted a very high level security co-ordination committee for the state headed by the Chief Secretary and in which local / state level heads of Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Intelligence agencies and key departments of the State Government are members. Similar mechanism headed by the District Magistrate has been created at the district level. This security coordination committee is meeting regularly once every two months. Guided by the security coordination committee, the state intelligence agency has undertaken an exercise of security audit of few category "A" vital installations in cooperation with the Coast guard and Navy. The findings of such security audit have been shared with the security in charge of such vital installations and they have been advised to incorporate these suggestions to strengthen security of their installations. The Government of Gujarat has also undertaken an exercise of awareness building for the management of establishments with large footfalls such as malls, multiplexes and other public places through circulation of a questionnaire. The management of such places has been sensitized for installation of CCTVs and other surveillance equipments. The security of other public places with large number of visitors is also reviewed from time to time and appropriate measures are being undertaken in view of prevailing threats and intelligence inputs. The State Government has decided to set up dedicated QRTs in each of the districts during 2010-11, enhance strength of “Chetak Commando Forces” and strengthen bomb disposal squads and dog squads. (6) Strengthening of Crime Control Machinery. The Government of Gujarat had submitted a proposal for complete computerization of crime control machinery worth Rs 771 crores. The Government of India has sanctioned a part of the project and a sum of Rs. 56 crores for this purpose. It appears that Government of India approved this project with a rider to provide "Technical Architecture" to the Central Government. Subsequently, Government of India has excluded sharing of source code and provided a revised draft of MOU recently which is under consideration of the State Government. I urge the Union government to conduct a study to ascertain initiatives taken by different states and evolve a proper system based on States' inputs. Better innovative solutions developed by the State governments should be examined and considered while developing an integrated solution compatible through out the country. Incentive for developing appropriate solutions by States may be considered by recognizing the copy rights or IP rights which will suitably encourage their initiatives and efforts. To implement the CCTNS project it is necessary to enhance capacity of existing IT infrastructure in the state which would require substantial investment in improving the bandwidth and back end processing capabilities. Government of India should allocate additional funds to finance upgradation of existing Gujarat State Wide Area Network. I would like to raise the issue concerning modality of computing allocation of funds under CCTNS project to respective states. A major factor in deciding State's allocation is on the basis of number of police stations and this is discriminatory to States like Gujarat. I would request the Union Home Minister to revisit the criterion and fix population as the major deciding factor so that it is non discriminatory against states with comparatively less number of Police stations. Gujarat has also invested considerably in enhancing capabilities of its Forensic Science Laboratory at Gandhinagar. The State has also set up a Forensic Science University which has already started running post graduate degree and diploma courses in Forensic Science, Forensic Nanotechnology, Forensic pharmacy, Behavioural Science, Cyber Forensics to name a few. (7) Police Reforms Gujarat has always been proactive in taking up Police reforms for better management of law and order situation and to ensure safety and security of its citizens. The state has been following the Bombay Police Act and provisions of the Police Manual. After the judgment of Hon. Supreme Court in Prakash Singh v/s Union of India in writ petition No. 310/1996, the State Government has constituted State Security Commission, Police Establishment Boards and Police Complaint Authority. The State has also amended Mumbai Police Act making necessary Provision for tenure of police officers including that of DGP. The State has ensured stable tenure for officers and encouraged effective and efficient administration. Various welfare measures have been taken up not only for the police personnel but also for family members of the policemen. However, Police reforms will remain incomplete or inadequate without proper moral and legal support to the forces. Of late, number of instances have come to notice which are highly demoralizing for the police force and indirectly provide ground for rejoicing to the subversive elements. (8) Modernization of Police Forces. It is always desirable that writ of law should prevail in a civilized society rather than rule by force. While we can not ignore the need to equip our police forces with modern weapons and equipments, the process of modernization should encompass much wider spectrum to enable our forces to be more effective. Unfortunately, of late, we have started ignoring importance of effective and stronger laws as a deterrent tool. I believe, we have taken very hasty steps in amending established laws vital for criminal justice system. Often such steps lead to demoralization of law enforcing forces. The criminal administration system has also been weakened due to overlooking of set rules, procedures and established practices by certain steps apparently taken in haste or by certain considerations. I urge that policy decisions affecting internal security and morale of the police force should be taken after due deliberations considering the requirement of the situation and the federal governing structure of the country. Government of Gujarat accords top priority to modernization of police force. Modernization is being carried out not only in terms of equipment provided to the police forces but also in terms of skill up gradation of the police personnel. We have been trying to procure adequate number of advanced weapons and ammunitions for the police force. Unfortunately we are not able to get adequate quantity of ammunitions allotted by ordnance factories. I would request again that the Union government reassess requirements of the states and takes necessary action. I appreciate that we are getting assistance for modernization of the police force from the Government of India. Unfortunately the budgetary allocation for the modernization is grossly inadequate. Looking to the strategic location of Gujarat and the increased threat perception from across the border and from across the coastal waters, Gujarat deserves special support to put in place effective deterrent mechanism. Rapid industrialization and presence of vital national assets in the coastal areas are adding to the pressure. I would urge that Govt. of India enhances outlay for Gujarat under the MPF scheme to not less than Rs.250 crores per annum. It is noteworthy here that policing in cities like Ahmedabad requires specialized equipment and also has its own set of unique problems. I would therefore urge the Government of India to provide separate funds for Mega City Policing. (9) Issues relating to Naxal Management. Naxalites have been trying hard to penetrate in to Gujarat. But because of general well being of the people, successful Land Reforms Policy of the State, Pragmatic Labor Policy, Innovative programmes for upliftment of poor and special dedicated flagship schemes in the coastal as well as tribal regions, the Naxalites have failed to gain any foothold in agrarian or industrial or tribal belt of Gujarat. However, one disturbing issue that has come to our notice and which is very important in the context of national security is the fact that some of the Naxalites who fled from their respective areas on account of stern action by the security agencies in respective states have tried in the past to come to Gujarat for bidding their time or for availing medical facilities. This issue I had flagged in previous conferences on National Security also. Currently Government of India has identified 14 states as states affected by Naxalism and therefore intelligence sharing relating to Naxalite activities is happening only among these 14 states. I had requested in the previous conferences that the intelligence sharing must take place with other states also so that they could upgrade their capacity to meet such challenges in future and at the same time, they also take necessary measures to ensure that Naxalism is not permitted to take root in other states. I would urge the Government of India to consider this request in right earnest and instruct the concerned agencies to share intelligence relating to Naxalism with other states also. (10) Issues relating to Coastal Security. Gujarat has a long coast line in proximity to our hostile neighbor. Many areas adjoining to the sea are not easily accessible from the land side. Effective coastal patrolling would require dotting of the coast line with series of coastal police stations equipped with better and modern facilities, adequate office and residential facilities and motivated and trained manpower to provide effective policing and intelligence set up. This would also necessarily require a high level of inter agency coordination amongst all the players like Coastal police, Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force, BSF, State & Central intelligence agencies. We have converted our state police control centre into joint operations centre wherein the representative from Navy, Coast guard, Customs, BSF and Fisheries Department are present. I would take this opportunity to urge the Government of India to formalize this mechanism through appropriate administrative instructions. I may remind this august forum that in the last conference, a suggestion to train our youth from the fishermen community on the line of Territorial Army during the lean period was accepted. However, no effective step has yet been taken in this direction. I had also requested the Government of India to establish a National Maritime Security Authority for effective co-ordination of forces engaged in coastal security. I request the Union Government to implement the accepted suggestions of this important forum dealing in internal security of the country in time bound manner. All along the coast line, a large number of small islands exist which need to be watched carefully. Previously I had raised the issue of non-patrolling of the stretch between Medi & Jakhau along the Kachchh coast. The Government of India has already indicated that the responsibility of patrolling this stretch vests with the coast guard. However, I would like to bring it to the notice of Union Government that because of lack of suitable boats with the coast guard, it is able to patrol only the sea-ward face of this particular stretch and therefore the issue of foolproof coverage still remains unresolved. I would urge the Government of India to provide suitable boats to the Coast Guard so that they can carry out patrolling in marshy and mangrove laden shallow waters as well. To develop the critical infrastructure for coastal Security, Government of Gujarat had submitted a proposal to the Government of India for Rs. 398.47 crores under coastal security scheme. The Government of India in the first phase had approved only a part of the proposal worth Rs.58.42 crores. I am glad to report that most of the construction as well as staffing of the police stations, outposts and check posts under first phase of coastal security scheme will be completed by 31st March, 2010. However, all 30 high speed boats allocated have not been supplied yet though the first phase of five years is over. Some of the eight boats which have been supplied so far are facing problems in terms of maintenance as no AMC is in place on the ground. I had requested earlier to explore the possibility of manning these sophisticated boats by trained crew from the supplier company so that our staff could also be trained adequately. I hope this aspect will looked in to in the interest of ensuring optimum utilization of resources. Further, we have already submitted proposal for phase-II of coastal security scheme for setting up 12 additional police stations and 17 additional outposts. The Government of India is requested to approve it expeditiously. Coming to the security at ports, it has to be accepted that it is grossly inadequate and also lacks in institutional mechanism. For minor ports and ports with private developers currently there is no mechanism to effectively check movement of personnel in and out of the port areas. We need to have a policy on the line of policy of immigration check at the airport in as much as movement of personnel in and out of a port is as good as movement of personnel in and out of the airport. Besides, we also need to introduce a mechanism for tracking and monitoring small ships and other vessels including fishing boats. I have repeatedly urged the Government of India for speeding up implementation of the Vessels Traffic Monitoring System in the gulf of Kachchh. I hope that the Government of India accords it top priority and expedites the execution of the Vessels Traffic Monitoring System in the gulf of Kachchh. (11) Border Management: Few years ago the Government of India undertook an ambitious programme for fencing of the border between India & Pakistan. Most of the fencing work along the border has been completed but the last mile issues need to be addressed. Few days ago I was quite disturbed after reading that attempts were made by our enemy to cut through and destroy fencing at many places. While completing work of fencing in the uncovered areas of the Rann of Kachchh has to be done on top priority, at the same time and under no circumstances we must lay our guards down. We must also pay attention to the issue of infrastructure development along the border areas. I had mentioned on the last occasion about setting up of solar power project complexes near the border not only to encourage investment and infrastructure activities, but also to provide critical impetus for growth in the region. It would facilitate our border security forces as well, when power will be sufficiently available along the borders. I had also mentioned about installing high capacity communication network with powerful transmission system in the border region to prevent undesirable communication signals and other transmissions invading our regions. This aspect needs urgent consideration to protect our population in the border areas who may become vulnerable to adverse propaganda in critical situations. The Gujarat Government has identified a critical link for development of the road between Gadhuli & Santalpur. This link when complete would bring the border areas of Kachchh & Patan closer to the main land as well as to the national highways significantly. The State Government had submitted a proposal of Rs. 579 crores for construction of this vital road link and it appears that Government of India has agreed in principle and accepted view point of Gujarat regarding importance of this road link from strategic point of view. I would request that once a particular project has been recognized as vital for national security, then insignificant issues such as which department would make budgetary provision should not come in way of expeditious execution of the project. I am glad that the Central Government has felt the need to strengthen road infrastructure in border areas to improve connectivity of the border towns with the district headquarters. Some time ago the State Governments were requested to identify such missing yet important connecting roads and submit their proposals. Accordingly Government of Gujarat submitted a proposal for improvement of 965 Km. of roads in the border districts at an estimated cost of Rs. 1179 crores in June 2009. We are yet to hear anything from the Government of India. I would urge the Government of India for expeditious decision and approval in the matter. Concluding, I reiterate my appreciation for this initiative of holding this high level conference on internal security regularly. I would share that all the States though constrained in the matter of resources available with them, are taking concerted action to see that internal security is not jeopardized at any cost. The related issue which I think equally important is regarding improvement in the Criminal Justice System. We must appreciate that police has only powers of booking the criminals and collection of evidence. Thereafter it is for the criminal justice system to deal with the criminals effectively. One of the important parameters to gauge effectiveness of our criminal justice system is the ratio of convictions to acquittals. Even in matters of serious body and property offences, many a times criminals are let off on grounds of technicalities. Besides, in many instances the delay from investigation of offences to the conduct of the trial seriously compromises willingness of the witnesses to give truthful evidences. This is an issue which we must address in right earnest. My government is committed to build a mechanism to ensure that all criminal cases are disposed of within 12 months. In Gujarat, we have tried to operationalize 102 evening courts and are also encouraging disposal of petty offences through Lok Adalats. In the year 2009 alone, 9273 Lok Adalats were conducted which disposed of 4,33,089 cases. We have been successful in disposing of 3,79,937 cases through 75 Fast track courts and 6,25,765 cases through evening courts. I hope these initiatives of the executive and the judiciary in the State of Gujarat will go a long way in further strengthening our efforts to deal with criminals, anti-social and subversive elements. Regarding the establishment of special CBI courts, Gujarat already has two Sessions and two Magisterial courts functioning and in the current years' budget, one Sessions and one Magisterial court are proposed be set up. Gujarat is completing 50 years of its formation and will be celebrating its Golden Jubilee from 1st May, 2010. We have decided to use this opportunity to galvanize the masses and motivate citizens to build a better and stronger Gujarat where every person is educated, healthy and where every village is Nirmal. We will launch the Golden Jubilee Celebrations on 1st May, 2010 with a Mega Event at Ahmedabad. I take this opportunity to extend warm invitation to all distinguished personalities present in this august gathering to join us in the celebrations. Jay Hind, Jay Jay Swarnim Gujarat. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 13:57:30 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:57:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> Mr. Vij, I campaigned on roads with public, so media came out to support. I felt the brunt of this; as cases were slapped against me for protesting. When you can't argue Mr. Vij, you attack 'activists' personally on public forums such as these. My campaign however wasn't discussed in the Board meeting of some Multi-National Company. My campaign didn't have commercials on television, radio and newspapers. It seems you are an expert on 'selling' campaigns. Wonder how that happens! Have you shifted your profession lately? Please do explain to us list members in detail. Don't mix issues without thinking. It becomes cheap. As the moderators have the liberty to trash a value addition to the list. So do I have the right to counter 'trash' and 'propaganda' on this list. Dear Shuddhaji A 16 year of Sakshi sent me these lines a couple of days back - मेरे पड़ोस वाले घर में , बच्चे बम से खेलते है... और मेरे बच्चे यहाँ गेंद से... हर रोज़ युही मज़े से खेलते है.. अक्सर गेंद उनके घर में जाती है.. और उनके बम मेरे घर में आते है... कल भी एसा ही दिन था, @pune पडोसी गेंद लोटाते नहीं, और हम भी उनके बम लोटाते नहीं ... वो खुश किस्मत है ... और हम .... thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् wrote: > Shri Aditya Raj Kaulji has for some weeks now been telling the world > about how Aman ki Asha has to do with m-words like "media > market-management". Has he no sense of irony? he, the master of "media > market-managment" campaigns of various causes? Jab tumhara campaign > bikta hai toh peace, kisi aur ka toh market? Kuch to sharam karon. > > On 17 February 2010 17:21, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Dear Shri Shuddhabrata Senguptaji > > > > Namaskar > > > > I have merely forwarded a reaction from a common Indian to the recent > > developments of 'Aman Ki Asha' around. I can see you agitated. Wonder > what > > makes you so uncomfortable! Is it the truth of Islamic-terrorism or the > > engagement politics and media market-management of Peace? > > > > It hardly matters to me how a godamn 'My Name Is Khan' does at the box > > office. I condenm the protests against it. However, terrorism matters to > me > > and every Indian not how much money a producer makes out of made-up > > publicity. We don't want protection of a bloody movie; we want security > for > > citizens of this country. > > > > You have yet again displayed intolerance and abused my right to > participate > > in this so called 'Liberal' forum. I am not facing this for the first > time. > > It has become usual for me. Wonder if I calculate the wastage of time to > us > > by some of the rhetoric of far extremist, intolerant and left lunatic > > fringe. > > > > Have tolerance in letter and spirit. We have heard enough of your fake > Batla > > House and several other such theories. What happened to them, if I may > ask? > > > > Pakistan is suffering from something which it initiated decades ago. It > will > > continue to burn. I never objected to views from Pakistani public. Though > > Kashmir can never be on dialogue table with Pakistan. Nor can it be with > > terrorists who some glorify in this forum. > > > > Congrats to you and other co-founders of Sarai, which completed a decade > > recently. I pray for more, patience, tolerance and flow of rational > thought > > to the Sarai. > > > > And hope you hold/delete/block less/none of our e-mails from now onwards. > > Even that may be abuse of liberty, something you are very well versed > with > > yourself. > > > > I don't want this this to turn into a relay e-mail exchange as has > happened > > in the past. > > > > regards > > > > 2010/2/17 Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > >> Aditya, > >> > >> I regret that you have once again abused the space of liberty on this > list > >> by forwarding this idiotic poem, which I have wasted my time by reading. > >> > >> I am normally not a fan of the Times of India, or the Jang Group of > >> Newspapers, but, I have to say, that the steady stream of opposition > that > >> their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems to be gathering from the usual > >> suspects makes me even more interested in what the 'Aman ki Asha' > initiative > >> is all about. I sincerely hope that it sets a trend, and that other > media > >> corporations and other agencies mirror it by setting up their own > >> initiatives for sustaining the resources of peace in South Asia, and > >> especially between India and Pakistan, in these difficult times. > >> > >> Having tasted a bitter defeat after attempting their thuggery on the 'My > >> Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right is now seeking a fruitless second > >> wind, by riding the waves of the regrettable bomb blast that occured in > the > >> German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to surf this wave is pathetic. The > >> xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, and no amount of impotent roaring > from > >> Matoshtree will make it walk again. > >> > >> I find the poem that you sent, strongly objectionable, because it makes > no > >> attempt to distinguish between different kinds of opinion and publics in > >> Pakistan. > >> > >> The poem says - > >> > >> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, > >> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. > >> > >> > >> For those who do not understand Hindi. These lines can be translated as > >> follows - > >> > >> "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, lives were sacrificed > >> In their hearts, Paki monsters rejoiced" > >> > >> I am aware of the fact that time and again, whenever terrorist > atrocities > >> occur in India, a significant section of Pakistani political society > condemn > >> acts of terrorism in no uncertain terms. Many people in India do the > same > >> when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To lump all Pakistanis (or for that > >> matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who 'rejoice in their hearts' when > loss > >> of life occurs, is disgusting. I find your endorsement of this > disgusting > >> sentiment shameful. > >> > >> There is a very strong body of public opinion in Pakistan that wants > peace > >> in South Asia, and realizes that peace is the only way forward in > Pakistan. > >> They act vigilantly against war-mongers and preachers of prejudice in > >> Pakistan, exactly as many of us act vigilantly against the constituency > that > >> advocates permanent aggression here. That includes our vigilance against > >> your hate filled agenda. > >> > >> Whenever an atrocity like what happened in Pune occurs, I find that the > >> constituency of rabid right-wing nationalism comes crawling out like > maggots > >> to feast on the dead. As if they were waiting for tragedy to strike to > once > >> again find their reason for existence. > >> > >> Have none of these people any shame? Have you none at all? > >> > >> Shuddha > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: Irma Razdan > >> Date: 2010/2/17 > >> Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA > >> To: > >> > >> For my Hindi speaking followers, this is a poem that was authored by a > mod > >> of a forum which is my frequent haunt. It is a take on the recent 'Aman > ki > >> Asha' program by the Times of India and Jang group of Pakistan, which is > >> supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace project. Newbies, please refer to link. > >> > >> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, > >> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा, > >> > >> पीठ में ख़ंजर भोंका जिनने, मानवता को ही छला, > >> आज बोलते चले हैं वोही, कैसी शांति की भाषा, > >> > >> ज़मीन के लालच को धर्म का मुखौटा पहना, > >> जिन जल्लादों ने छीना भारत माँ का गहना, > >> आज उन्ही से रखनी होगी, हमको प्रेम की अभिलाषा > >> वाह रे टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया, क्या खूब है तेरी आशा. > >> > >> देखो कैप्टन कालिया, ऐसा हुआ आपका बलिदान, > >> आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु और क़सब को शायद मिल जाये जीवनदान, > >> छब्बीस-ग्यारह दोहराने को बेचैन हैं जिनके जेहादी, > >> दोस्ती का राग सुना रहे, वही कियानी, ज़रदारी और गीलानी, > >> कौआ चले हंस की चाल, देखो इनकी मीठी भाषा, > >> हमें दोस्ती का पाठ पढ़ाएंगे, अब सूजा अहमद पाशा. > >> > >> हमारे अपने नेताओं ने, देश को भी नहीं बख़्शा > >> नपुंसक से भी कम पौरुष जिनमें, वो करेंगे देश की रक्षा? > >> बातचीत के ज़रिये ये, मिटा देंगे सारे भेद > >> आधा कश्मीर खोने का, इनको ज़रा नहीं खेद, > >> राष्ट्र को किया लज्जित, दी शर्म-अल-शेख़ में निराशा, > >> समझे नहीं हम किसने लिखी आख़िर उस दस्तावेज़ की भाषा. > >> कब तक जयचंदों को जनती रहेगी हे माता! > >> कब तक तेरे बच्चों को होती रहेगी हताशा, > >> > >> आतंकवाद की आग में जब जल रहा है पाकिस्तान, > >> ऐसी हालत में इनके हृदय में जागा है इंसान, > >> दिल्ली मुंबई अहमदाबाद ने जब की थीं जानें क़ुर्बान, > >> मन ही मन खुश होते थे यही पाकी हैवान, > >> देखो भारतवासियों, रखना इतना ध्यान, > >> राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ में ही सदा देना तुम कमान, > >> झूठे धर्म-निरपक्षों से रहना तुम सावधान, > >> वोट बैंक बनकर कभी मत करना मतदान. > >> > >> बोस, पटेल, सावरकर ने, जिस देश को है तराशा, > >> लूट ना ले उसको फिर, यह झूठी अमन की आशा. > >> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, > >> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा. > >> > >> English Transliteration: > >> > >> Aman Ki Aasha > >> > >> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, > >> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha, > >> > >> Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, manavta ko hi chhala, > >> aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi shanti ki bhaasha, > >> > >> zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta pehna, > >> jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka gehna, > >> aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki abhilaasha, > >> wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai teri Aasha. > >> > >> Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka balidaan, > >> Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad mil jaaye jeevandaan, > >> Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, bechain hain jinkay jehadi, > >> hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani > >> Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki meethi bhaasha, > >> hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab Sooja Ahmed Pasha. > >> > >> Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi baksha, > >> Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh karenge desh ki raksha? > >> baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge saare bhed, > >> aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara nahi khed, > >> Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, > >> samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir us dastavez ki bhasha. > >> Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he maata, > >> Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi hataasha. > >> > >> Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha hai Pakistan, > >> Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, jaaga hai insaan, > >> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, > >> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. > >> Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna dhyan, > >> Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada dana tum kamaan, > >> Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna tom saavdhaan, > >> vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna matdaan. > >> > >> Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko hai taraasha, > >> loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman ki aasha. > >> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, > >> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha. > >> > >> Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> Raqs Media Collective > >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> www.sarai.net > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Writer > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 14:06:49 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:06:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Marxism Exposed: How Labour And The Tories Are Destroying Britain Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002200036r71ab7e32j9830a191ab0e6b7b@mail.gmail.com> Part One: Birth Of The New Man Introduction Something is wrong with Great Britain and Western Civilisation. Badly wrong. Imagine, if you will, that the brave warriors who fought to preserve Great Britain from tyranny during the Second World War have been resurrected and allowed to visit modern day Britain to see for themselves the fruits of their sacrifice. First, they would notice that there are hordes of aliens in all British cities who are not British and never will be. Millions of immigrants from Africa, Pakistan, India, China, Vietnam, Poland, Romania, The Caribbean, all combining to introduce cultures and traditions tolerated and regarded as equal - if not superior - to the British culture. Among these hordes are aliens who attack, rape including gang rape, and murder British citizens throughout the realm. Immigrants who organise in gangs and who wage gang wars on Britain's streets to control territory. Territory used to traffic drugs and sex slaves to make these criminal gangs vast amounts of money. As the returning warriors walk around the cities, what would they make of the minarets dominating the skylines, or indeed, of the numerous once-Christian churches now transformed into Mosques where the two million plus Muslims can practice their Islamic faith? And would they be tempted to sample the culinary delights of 100% halal greasy kebabs and spicy curries consumed en-masse by modern day Britons from scores of restaurants and take-away establishments scattered in all British towns and cities? How would they react to what passes for en evening out in British cities where hundreds of thousands of young Britons drink themselves into a stupor, many lying unconscious in the streets, not to mention the appalling levels of violence conducted by drunken louts, all now accepted as "normal" on a night out. Imagine their reaction on hearing the news that Great Britain, once the world's leader in many industries, simply doesn't manufacture anything any more. That the motor car,motor cycle, engineering, coal and steel industries have all but gone or been taken over by foreign companies. And that's before you break the news that major British companies built off the backs of British workers over the years have relocated factories to foreign lands in the search for cheap labour. How proud would they feel to learn that since the end of the Second World War, the political elite have gradually surrendered British sovereignty without consulting the British people to a European-centric organisation based in Brussels? An organisation that passes 85% of the laws of Britain, an organisation whose elite are composed of twenty-seven unelected politicians with zero accountability to the British public? A public who by and large don't even know such an elite group of politicians exist. And speaking of politicians, can you imagine breaking the news that the Labour and Conservative parties have waged two illegal wars, both involving heinous war crimes against thousands of innocent people, wars justified on both occasions on a pack of outrageous lies and falsifications, spoon-fed to the British people by deceitful politicians and a duplicitous politicized media? Imagine telling these soldiers who fought and died for King and country that the present monarch has given her assent for the surrender of British sovereignty by repeatedly signing it away in the full knowledge that her own people have never been consulted. How would these brave warriors feel when they discover that while British troops were fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan, those who sent them to war were busy pilfering the public purse at will, using taxpayers' money to play the housing market and to pay for all manner of expenses, from house cleaning to pornographic films? To then inform them that on returning to Great Britain to march through their home towns, British soldiers were abused as "murderers", "cowards" and "baby killers" by fanatical Muslims who were permitted by law to protest in this way would surely be very hard for them to believe. Can you imagine trying to explain to them that the desire to keep Britain British, to assert that the British way of life should be paramount in this land and that British people should come first is regarded as a crime, punishable by law? And to attempt to explain the nature of racism, that it is a crime only white people can commit, a crime whites have committed throughout history and a crime for which all whites, not just Britons, must be continually punished for, how on earth do you think they would react? Would they be able to even comprehend that the political elite have been encouraging mass immigration from the third world into the realm and that these immigrants are provided with housing, benefits, healthcare and all manner of social services all paid for courtesy of the British taxpayer? You would have to hand them a leaflet from the NHS so they could see for themselves the number of foreign languages they are printed in because many of these immigrants don't speak - and refuse to learn - English. As if all of that wasn't enough, imagine then informing them that Great Britain is bankrupt and that incompetent and greedy bankers were bailed out by British taxpayers without their assent. And that despite this gross incompetence and shameful abuse of British taxpayers, the British government still donates hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money to third world countries and indeed, has stated that this must continue with even more generosity. And all of that is just scratching the surface. But when I thought about how my Grandfather, Father and seven Uncles would react if I had the chance to explain to them the state of modern-day Great Britain, the nation they all sacrificed so much for, I believe they would ask a very simple question: "What the hell has happened to our country?" The answer is complex, what has happened is nothing less than a crime against humanity, conducted against the British people and indeed, the entire white race and it has been deliberately conducted by cunning, power-hungry politicians who are busy prosecuting one of the most pernicious ideologies ever created by mankind. In this series of essays, I will attempt to explain the true nature of this ideology and the serious threat it presents to Western society, along with the grave consequences it imposes upon human beings wherever it is implemented. What follows is the deeply unpleasant and disturbing truths Labour, Conservative and Liberal politicians don't want the British people to know. It's time for them to be outed for the evil charlatans they are because every single individual in these parties is a willing disciple of the ideology destroying Great Britain and the British people: Marxism. Partners In Anti-Human Crime Whenever Marxism is mentioned, what is particularly striking is how little most Britons know about it. Of course, many will mention that it is "something to do with communism isn't it?", without realising the anti-human nature of the philosophy Karl Marx and his fellow socialist Friedrich Engels preached. Even more striking is how unaware most people are about the serious consequences imposed upon humanity because of the ideas and teachings of Marx and Engels. Everything currently occurring in Great Britain and indeed, Western civilisation is firmly rooted in the Marxist philosophy. But what, exactly is Marxism all about? In 1848, the philosophy of Karl Marx was published, entitled "The Communist Manifesto" and the first line of the book states: "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." Such a simple sentence and yet straight away, one can see that Marx's philosophy is all about dividing society into two distinct halves: The ruling elite - the haves - and "the people" - the ruled, the have-nots. In other words, the wealthy ruling class and the impoverished working class. The ruling class - the bourgeoisie - had achieved their wealth and status through Capitalism and controlled the means of production, namely employment, eduction and of course, finance. Marx asserted that through Capitalism, the bourgeoisie exploited the working class and that the Capitalist society must be destroyed and replaced by a classless, stateless society, controlled by - and composed completely of - the working class who would own the means of production. This classless, stateless society is referred to as "pure Communism", also referred to as "the second way" with the Capitalist society being "the first way". The establishment of the classless, stateless society could only come about through revolutionary action, a revolutionary action that would need to be conducted internationally by workers to ensure the total destruction of Capitalism. As the Capitalist society is transformed into the pure-Communist classless society, there will be a transitional socialist state called "the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat", the proletariat being the working class. This dictatorship would be the replacement of the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie", the next step after the primary revolutionary action towards the establishment of the stateless, classless society. So this is the core of Marxism, creating an International socialist stateless society with the means of production owned and controlled by the working class. Marxism asserts that the weak working class are the victims of the strong ruling class who exploit the working class through their labour because the bourgeoisie own and control the means of production. This is the first, core assertion of inequality and victim-hood in the Marxist ideology and future disciples of Marx and Engels recognised the power of it and would ensure it would become a key tactic in their determined struggle to destroy the Capitalist society. An Oppressive Deity Capitalism was not the only system Marx despised. Although born a Jew, his parents had both converted to Christianity and Marx was baptised at age six. But Marx was not raised in any faith, rather in a house devoid of religion and perhaps this sewed the seeds for another core of Marxist philosophy: The hatred of religion. Marx was quite open about his hatred of religion and vehemently professed his atheism, indeed the very nature of the Marxist ideology is Anti-Christian and Anti-Jewish. One doesn't need to be a graduate of Judeo-Christian theology to realise that anybody who believes in violent revolution simply cannot be a Jew or a Christian. So why did Marx have nothing but contempt for religion? Marx's views on Christianity originated from the German philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach and his "The Essence Of Christianity where he asserted that there is no God or no Jesus Christ or religion, that these are merely creations of man's imagination resulting "from man's miserable existence that he feels the need to invent God." Feuerbach believed that religion is just a manifestation of the true inner nature of human beings, and therefore, only the material world and humanity exist, there is no spirit or afterlife. Both Feuerbach and Marx were heavily influenced by the philosophies of another German, Georg Hegel. Feuerbach was a member of the Young Hegelians - also known as the Left Hegelians - and they created a radical interpretation of Hegel's dialectic march of the spirit throughout history to mean that both Western civilisation - i.e. Capitalism - and its institutions - Religion, especially Christianity, would be overcome and replaced with superior systems, particularly socialism. Marx was heavily influenced by Feuerbach's views on religion and elaborated on them. He asserted that as part of the revolutionary action, man would be brought to the stage where he no longer needed religion. In the classless, stateless socialist utopian society, religion would be abolished because Marx believed it contained the root of the misery inflicting mankind, in his own words: "The criticism of religion is therefore in embryo the criticism of the vale of woe, the halo of which is religion". But his hatred for religion was not solely confined to criticising religion as being responsible for the misery of mankind. Marx saw religion as a weapon of control wielded by the bourgeoisie to keep the working class in squalor, under the comforting illusion that they would be rewarded in a non-existent afterlife. The promise of the classless stateless society would give the oppressed and exploited working class a better, happier life here on earth. Again, Marx stated: "Religion is the sign of the oppressed creature, the heart of the heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people". Many people are aware of the last line, a line often quoted by critics of religion but I wonder how many of these people who quote Marx are aware of the hatred this atheist philosopher had for all religions? By asserting that Capitalism and it's institutions such as Religion needed to be destroyed through violent revolution and replaced with a system that will abolish them and not tolerate those who follow them, one can note that Marx's philosophy is an ideology born out of a bitter resentment and a seething hatred for the two systems he directed his vitriol against: Capitalism and Religion. Yet there is a glaring contradiction that provides a striking contrast between how this socialist actually lived his life and the Marxist ideology he preached. Reaping The Benefits Marx did not create the Marxist philosophy by himself, he was aided and abetted by his close friend Friedrich Engels, the son of a wealthy German textile manufacturer. Whilst Marx lived in poverty, it was a self-inflicted poverty, shunning the need to work for a living so he could write down the philosophy of Marxism. Even after Marx married and had a child, he refused to work and earn an wage to support and feed himself and his wife and child. Marx and his family survived courtesy of the charity of others, especially from Engels and his wealthy family, yet charity is firmly rooted in both Capitalism and Religion, and curiously, this hypocrisy of Marx is conveniently rarely ever mentioned. Equally rarely mentioned is the fact that while Marx benefited from the charity of Engels and his capitalist family - Engels actually took a clerk's job to support his friend, a job he hated - and of course, from the generosity of many others, he placed his hatred for Capitalism and Religion above the welfare of his own family who he kept firmly ensconced in squalor. This, the same enlightened godfather of the socialists who raged about the unjust exploitation of the working class yet had no problem whatsoever in exploiting his wife and child in such a heartless manner. He showed no remorse, merely stating that were he to have his time again he would not have married. Such an uncaring attitude and an indifference towards the feelings and needs of his own family offer clear evidence that Karl Marx was driven not by a love for humanity but by a hatred of human beings who accepted the systems he despised and that spreading this hatred via the gospel of Marxism was regarded as much more important than providing and caring for his own family. These very important obligations for a Husband and Father were completely dependent upon the charity and generosity of many others who were, just like Engels' family, a part of the capitalist and Christian societies he was determined to destroy. Tellingly, this hatred for human beings who want to live in a capitalist society and have the freedom to worship their chosen Deity remains a feature of the disciples of Marx and Engels to the present day, as British Nationalists such as myself can testify after being on the receiving end of hate-filled invective spewed-out by liberal-socialists towards human beings who refuse to accept their "perfect" socialist Utopia. It is important to fully understand that as Marx regarded religion as a weapon used to further oppress the working class, a Marxist stateless, classless socialist society cannot and will not include Religion. This is absolutely fundamental to Marxism and this also carries with it another fact: An individual cannot be a Marxist and a Christian, just as an individual cannot be a Christian and a Satanist. One of Marx's most devout apostles, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, summed up the Marxist attitude towards God and religion: "Every religious idea, every idea of God, every flirtation with the idea of God is unutterable vileness. . . . vileness of the most dangerous kind, 'contagion' of the most abominable kind. Millions of sins, filthy deeds, acts of violence and physical contagions . . . are far less dangerous than the subtle, spiritual idea of a God." It is quite clear that Marxism is an atheist ideology with a world-view that clashes completely with the world view of Christianity. Yet as the Christian church has been relentlessly assaulted by Marxists for the best part of a century and is now in a state of terminal decline, the clergy from the Christian faiths and many remaining Christians embrace the Marxist ideology and it's desired classless, stateless socialist society. As hypocrisy blinded both Marx and Engels, it seems that their modern day disciples share the same affliction. Perhaps this is because of the inversion of morality inherent in Christian theology identified by the brilliant philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche whereby the weak and the exploited are moral and the strong and powerful are immoral. One can see why Nietzsche predicted that Christianity would be abandoned but that this moral inversion would be retained and it is an inversion of morality that fits very comfortably with the theories of Marx and Engels and their disciples who have prosecuted the establishment of the classless socialist Utopia these two Godfathers of Marxism invented. But Marx's hatred for Capitalism and Religion didn't end with them. He also nurtured another hatred rarely mentioned by the cunning left and their lick-spittle lackeys. Feel Like A New Man As Marx hated both Capitalism and Religion, it logically follows that the project to establish the stateless, classless society requires people who do not believe in God and who reject Capitalism. Now we see for the first time the dangerous, anti-human ground Marx and his socialist philosophy entered, totalitarian ground to impose by any means necessary the classless, stateless socialist Utopia. The stateless, classless society is to be International - make that global - and would manifest after a violent revolution conducted by the working classes. Those who are part of the revolution and the classless socialist Utopia will be "the new order", without class or religion. They will be collectivist rather than individualist with individuals being de-constructed so they regard themselves as "the new man", a one-world stateless citizen living in "people's communities". All ruled of course by an elite socialist party who brainwash the masses to accept the socialist doctrine. Today, that is exactly what is being performed by the lib/lab/con in Great Britain and by the entire European Union as we shall see in the follow-up essays. For the first time in human history, Marx laid down the concept of "a new man". A man devoid of individuality, Godless, and most certainly not capitalist. It's easy then to believe that when Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels refer to a violent revolution, that they are referring to a class war and that this war would be about the extermination of the ruling elites. Not so. Writing in the January 1849 edition of Marx's journal "Neue Rheinische Zeitung" Engels states that when the class war happens, there will be societies in Europe who are two stages behind. These were the societies who had not yet implemented Capitalism and therefore, the people in those societies could not be revolutionised. People such as the Basques, the Bretons, the Scottish Highlanders and the Slavs (Croats, Czechs, Magyars, Poles, Serbs, Slovenians). Engels referred to these human beings as: Völkerabfälle - "Racial Trash" Marx himself clears up any misunderstanding: "Classes and races too weak to master the new conditions of life must give way and perish in the revolutionary holocaust." These statements amount to nothing less than a call for the extinction of entire indigenous peoples of the European continent. It is an assertion of racial superiority, an arrogant assessment that one group of people have the right to pick and choose who has the right of life based solely on racial lines which preclude involvement in the "new order", the stateless, classless Utopia. Marx in his own words again: "The coming world war will cause not only reactionary classes and dynasties, but entire reactionary peoples, to disappear from the face of the earth." How very elitist. What struck me as curious is that these two socialists hated Capitalism but regarded people as "racial trash" simply because they had not implemented Capitalism in their societies. Once again, Marx demonstrates it is perfectly acceptable to exploit, oppress and even execute those who will not or cannot be part of the socialist classless Utopia yet this is a man who hated the ruling elites for exploiting and oppressing the proletariat. It becomes clearer and clearer that the Marxist revolution is all about replacing one group of elitist exploiters with another. A group who masquerade as victims fighting against oppression but who also believe in oppressing and eliminating human beings who disagree with them or who are deemed incapable of adapting to the "new man" classless, stateless Marxist utopia. Live The Dream What would life be like in Marx's classless, stateless society, a "pure communist" world? To be fair, there are some laudable policies. Child labour would be abolished with free education provided to all children. The inequalities between cities, towns and country would be reduced so that the population would be more evenly distributed. But things don't get much better from there. All property would be owned by the government and private ownership of industry - Capitalism - would be eradicated. All land would be rent to public purposes, owning your own home would not be an option. Added to this is the complete abolishment of inheritance with all property owned by those deemed unfit for the socialist utopia confiscated. ALL religion would be abolished. This may be seen by many as a good thing even though they aren't Marxists or Socialists. I confess that I have sympathy with Marx's assessment of how religion has been used to control and exploit people, but I also have first-hand experience of how faith can provide so much comfort to believers in their times of need. There can be little doubt that organised religion in its various forms has caused enormous suffering to human beings around the world and it still is, witness the horrors of Islam. But as the world's first pure Communist state, the USSR discovered, banning religion isn't as easy as the Marxists imagined. The government would exert control over the lives of the citizens. Transport and communications infrastructure would be centralised and run by the government and the entire banking system would also be centralised and government controlled. Credit would be issued by the government through a single national bank. To exert so much control over the people requires more and more government and more and more government means less individual freedoms and higher and higher taxation. Employment would be controlled by the state with armies of workers created to fill factories, governmental departments, cultivate unused land and create a thriving agricultural industry. Democracy would not exist, governance would be conducted by an elite group of socialists who would form the "dictatorship of the proletariat" which in time would no longer be needed with the "new order" established whereby goods and services are provided solely according to need. This is the ultimate goal of pure Communism, a stateless, classless society without government, where the workers of the world will have been completely liberated freed from the oppression of the bourgeoisie. Establishing this global, classless, stateless society is not an easy task nor something that can happen quickly. Marx and Engels, without doubt two of the most evil men to have ever lived, had created the blueprint for the overthrow of the bourgeoisie and the liberation of the working classes. For the classless, stateless global society to become a reality, this blueprint would need to be significantly expanded upon, a major challenge presented to the committed socialists who followed in the footsteps of the Godfathers of Marxism. It was a challenge they accepted and prosecuted with relish as we shall see in the next essay. Conclusion There are several core issues to take from this essay regarding the nature of Marxism, issues British patriots should raise each time the issue of socialism is discussed. I believe most people - including socialists themselves - are unaware of the true nature of Marx and Engels' ideology. So, to summarise: 1. Capitalism allows the ruling elite - the bourgeoisie - to exploit the working class because they own the means of production. 2. Capitalism must be replaced by a GLOBAL classless, stateless, socialist society. 3. The classless, stateless society will be brought into being by violent revolution. 4. The second stage will be the establishment of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" who will own the means of production. 5. Religion will be abolished and democracy will cease to exist. 6. The "new man" will be Godless, stateless and classless, collectivist and not individualist. 7. Human beings who refuse to become the "new man" or who cannot because of their race become a part of the "new order" MUST "perish in the holocaust". 8. Pure Communism will exist when goods and services are provided according to need, this will herald the end of the need for government and true freedom for the working class will have been established. I encourage the reader to not only raise these issues when discussing the evolution of socialism, but to also think about how these issues are currently being played out in the International political arena, especially with organisations such as the European Union and the United Nations, and there will be more about these institutions in this series. Source : http://www.thegreenarrow.co.uk/index.php/writers/reconquista/1331-marxism-exposed-how-labour-and-the-tories-are-destroying-britain From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 14:13:48 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:13:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya I said long back and would still say this: the biggest problem between India and Pakistan is the heavy dose of sentimentalism which is attached to the relationship, both in glorification and vilification. It is this emotionalism and sentimentalism which is going to be the bane of the sub-continent, not its boon. And it springs everywhere: the love between the two nations is shown by few, and shared among some and the same can be said about the hate. What both nations, and more importantly, the citizens of both nations need to do, is to look at the India-Pakistan relations without any sentiments attached to it. Let's be objective in our approach and understand what is the real problem. Whoever we may be, BJP, Shiv Sena, Congress, humanitarian, Hindutva ideologue, Indian nationalist (on this side of the border), or even on that side of the border, let us take rationalism and reason as the basis for taking a decision. The Aman ki Asha will fail sooner or later, because this whole notion of love and peace is not going to be carried out for a while. All great love stories died without the hero and heroines marrying, simply because after marriage, love has to adjust with occupation and other things. This love story too will die. Rather than breaking off and falling in love again numerous times (which is indeed the case for India-Pakistan relations), we may do well to work slowly but steadily on things which can be sorted out. To begin with, let's have objective news analysis from either side of the border to know the truth. Let the Pakistanis have an idea of how the organizations which are against any peace with them or in favor of peace run, and how much the govt. is able to have a control with them. Let a vice-versa news analysis be also available on Pakistan and organizations existing there, such as the Jamaat-ud-Dawa. That could be really the first step towards this so-called Aman which the Times of India and their Pakistani counterparts want to achieve. Rakesh From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Feb 20 15:40:22 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:40:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Advertising, Bollywood, Corporate power Message-ID: <72F25348-B63B-4ACE-AA63-8C46A9DA1563@sarai.net> ================================================= Advertising, Bollywood, Corporate power http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article108458.ece?homepage=true P. Sainath Issues today have to be dressed up in ways certified by the corporate media. They have to be justified not by their importance to the public but by their acceptability to the media, their owners and sponsors. That the terrible tragedy in Pune demands serious, sober coverage is a truism. One of the side-effects of the ghastly blast has been unintended, though. The orgy of self-congratulation that marked the media coverage of just about everything since January is now in pause mode. Maybe the flak they copped for their handling of the November 2008 Mumbai terror blasts has something to do with it. But there is, so far, some restraint. At least, relative to the meal they made of the 2008 blasts. Otherwise, through January and early February, the media stood up bravely for freedom of expression and some other constitutional rights you've never heard of. They slew the demons of lingual chauvinism and worse. And they're just spoiling for a fight with any other enemy of our proud democracy. Just so long as they can keep Bollywood in central focus. Every issue is now reduced to a fight between individuals, heroic, villainous or just fun figures. So the complex issues behind the shunning of Pakistani cricketers by the Indian Premier League are reduced to a fight between Shah Rukh Khan and Bal Thackeray. (As one television channel began its programme: “Shah Rukh stands tall. His message to the nation ...”). The agonies of Bundelkhand are not about hunger and distress in our Tiger Economy. They are just a stand-off between Rahul Gandhi and Mayawati. The issues of language and migrations in Maharashtra are merely a battle between Rahul Gandhi and Uddhav Thackeray. And the coverage is all about who blinked first, who lost face. The devastating rise in food prices (let's skip the boring factors) and the mess in agriculture are a face-off between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar. The pathetic squabble within the Samajwadi Party is virtually a television serial. A blow-by-blow account of Amar Singh's valiant bid to retain his honour against Mulayam Singh's yahoos. (Indeed, some Hindi channels have begun using the language of theatre to report it — Act II, Scene II. And there was one programme which Mr. Amar Singh ended humming verses from his favourite film song). The Bt brinjal story had mostly only one villain — Union Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh. He had no visible adversary unless you pose the humble Brinjal as the hero. But that won't work for television. The other, more sinister heroes in this media story preferred to function from behind the scenes, plying newspapers and channels with faked data and false information. Hell hath no fury like a powerful corporate scorned, as the Minister is learning. Issues? The same media that passionately fought for freedom of expression for a month from mid-January had billed the 2009 Lok Sabha poll as one without issues. The country was actually burning with them, but they didn't make good television either. More accurately, the dominant media hadn't the slightest intention of covering them with any sincerity. The story of rising food prices remains one of the worst reported — no matter how much space it has been given. Sure, there have been exceptions — as in the case of some outstanding reports on Bundelkhand. But they've been just that. Exceptions. If these last six weeks have been about freedom of expression, we have neither. Or, at best, a twisted freedom and a tortured expression. There is little freedom for thousands of journalists in the corporate media and the few editors who still believe we ought to be doing a better job of informing the public on the key issues of our time. There's very little freedom for readers or viewers, too. For days on end, it didn't matter which television channel you switched to, it was SRK on all of them. When that movie drew to a close, the 'Rahul Gandhi storms Sena den' film was released and sustained. A visit of some hours produced days of footage. But with the end of Mr. Gandhi's visit to Mumbai, it was back to Shah Rukh Khan. Of course, viewers had the freedom to choose, which sets us apart from totalitarian states. They could choose any channel, from among many, to watch SRK saying exactly the same thing, at the same time. And they will be free to choose again when the figure is Amitabh Bachchan or Aamir Khan. If what we've watched on critical issues these past weeks is expression, we're through scraping the barrel. We're drilling holes in its bottom. Many corporate-owned media houses have sacked hundreds of journalists and non-journalist staff since late 2008. Hundreds of other journalists have suffered wage cuts. Of course, the ‘right to know' of readers and viewers does not extend to this information. Why scare the poor lambs? And how can you tell them the truth about that while everyday crowing about the once-again booming economy? It might lead audiences to ask that dull, boring question: “If things are so good, why are you axing so many people?” Answering that means revealing the interests the corporate media have in the fate of the stock market. It means talking about their need to keep the shares of the companies they are linked to (or have heavily invested in) afloat and buoyant. That is regardless of how rotten they are within. No matter how their own shares in those companies were obtained. And no agonising over how unethical the means used to keep them heated. This was in part behind the fatwa issued by some newspapers to their staff banning the ‘R' word last year. Recession is what happens in the United States. In India, it was a slowdown — and it's already turning around brilliantly. The hundreds of sacked and ruined staff have little freedom to speak of. Even the professional communicators within them cannot tell their own audiences their story. Cannot tell them they were laid off, let alone tell them why. Leave aside escaping a recession, India Shining is back. The cover story of a leading weekly gushes over the fantastic ‘rural resurgence' that is, in fact, saving all of us. Farmers are doing just great. Drip, micro-sprinkler, and other micro irrigation, the stories in it suggest, played a major role in this hidden-from-the-human-eye revival. This resurgence is seen more in urban media than in rural India. And the proliferation of such stories across the media spectrum reflects, in part, the strenuous media efforts of a major Maharashtra- based company. A corporate group that spends a fortune on propaganda and whose interests in this line of irrigation are pushed by some of the most powerful members of the Union Cabinet. Oddly, stories such as these come out even as the government's own projections for growth in agriculture are dismaying. The main ‘rural resurgence' story hit the stands the same day the National Crime Records Bureau officially brought the 2008 data for farm suicides on to its website. The 16,196 suicides that year brought the tally of farmers' suicides since 1997 to 199,132. That's the largest single, sustained wave of such suicides ever recorded in history — anywhere. Guess nobody told them about the resurgence. Farmers in 2008 did know of that year's loan waiver, but it didn't stop large numbers of them from taking their lives. The ‘rural resurgence' story comes after any number of the government's own committees, commissions and reports suggest that it revise poverty figures upwards. Whether it's the Suresh Tendulkar committee, the BPL Expert Group, or earlier the National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised sector. Or a U.N. study which reports that 34 million more Indians remained poor or joined their ranks in 2008 and 2009, because of the ‘slowdown.' That is, 34 million more than would have met that fate prior to the 2008 crisis. It matters little if Census data show us that 8 million cultivators quit agriculture between just 1991 and 2001. (That is, on average, well over 2,000 a day, every day for 10 years.) Or that the 2011 Census just months from now will show us how many more have fled agriculture since then, un-seduced by the rural resurgence. Never mind the facts. One giant private irrigation company stands to make its already huge fortune bigger. Good for growth. The ABC of Indian media roughly translates as Advertising, Bollywood and Corporate power. Some years ago, the ‘C' would have been cricket, but that great sport is fast becoming a small cog in the large wheel of corporate profit. (In the IPL, the ABC of media converge, even merge.) And, of course, everything but everything, has to be bollywoodised. To now earn attention, issues have to be dressed up only in ways certified by the corporate media. They have to be justified not by their importance to the public but by their acceptability to the media, their owners and sponsors. The more entrenched that ABC gets, the greater the danger to the language of democracy the media so proudly claim to champion. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 20 16:37:00 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:07:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation In-Reply-To: <000a01cab139$cde4da20$69ae8e60$@in> Message-ID: <217719.15014.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Bipin   You have contradicted yourself by using double standards   Earlier you wrote "Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support."   Now you write "Still investigation going on and there is no necessary to create doubts unless you have solid proof."   Kshmendra   --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Bipin wrote: From: Bipin Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation To: Cc: "sarai-list" Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 1:31 PM Still investigation going on and there is no necessary to create doubts unless you have solid proof. If he speaks for Islamic terrorism in general as well as Hindu terrorism in general is always welcome. Similarly, if he created doubt on malegoan blast that Islamic group is involved were also investigation going on would have been opposed if I have noticed. -----Original Message----- From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:31 PM To: Bipin Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Dear Bipin When Praveen Swami writes about Islamic terrorism and Kashmiri extremists with intricate details (which no other journalist has access to), we believe him gleefully to score our points about Pakistan and so on. But now, when he raises doubts if Hindutva forces were involved in this terror act, we discard him as "no authority". I would like you to see some of the following links to see what an authority Praveen Swami is considered on such matters: http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/display/ssispsru/Mr+Praveen+Swami http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/praveen-swami-lets-the-cat-out-of -the-bag/ http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2008/09/28/praveen-swamis-book-on-the-secre t-jihad-in-kashmir/ http://www.outlookindia.com/peoplefnl.aspx?author=Praveen%20Swami&pid=4139 On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Bipin wrote: > Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want to divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as sleeper cell. > > It's a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject > again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take > it seriously. > > ------- > Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Praveen Swami > > Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group > may have carried out German Bakery bombing > > PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant > Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role > in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the > rogue military officer with rose petals. > > Last week's bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly > story of Abhinav Bharat - the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped > found - back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the > Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik > began. > > In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the > bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva > terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young > Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing > that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a > Hindutva group. > > Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved > in Abhinav Bharat's terror campaign have never been held. Jatin > Chatterjee - better known by his alias Swami Asimanand - is thought to > be hiding out in Gujarat's Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu > proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat's > key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sen.gargi at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 17:42:48 2010 From: sen.gargi at gmail.com (Gargi Sen) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:42:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Persistence Resistance 2010 Message-ID: Dear Friends, I write to invite you to the 3rd edition of Persistence Resistance: a festival of contemporary political films ( http://www.magiclanternfoundation.org/Events/pr2010/pr10_home.html) The festival will be held from 25 to 27 February at the India International Centre, 40 Max Mueller Mar, New Delhi 110003 Screenings will being at 9:30 each morning and continue till late night. Some of the highlights of this edition are: 89 films will be screened in 14 venues across the IIC. We are honoured to present film by very senior and eminent filmmakers as well as new comers. Films will be screened in 2 auditoria, in simulated video parlours, outdoors at night, as installations and at a muti-hub video library. The festival will present retrospective of six directors: Manjira Datta, Deepa Dhanraj, Saba Dewan, Krishnendu Bose, Sanjay Barnela (with Vasant Sabarwal) and Supriyo Sen. The festival will showcase works by student from the FTII and NID. The festival will host two video installations. The festival is happy to present 6 in-depth conversations on documentary practice with 5 eminent filmmakers and a cinematographer: Kesang Tseten, Majira Datta, Saba Dewan, Bishakha Datta, Supriyo Sen and Avijit Mukul Kishor. Discussants are: Samina Mishra, Brinda Bose, Veena Hariharan, Sabina Gadihoke, Ira Bhaskar and Shankhajeet De. The festival will be inaugurated at 10:30 am on 25 Feb by Ms. Jai Chandiram. A key note address by The Hoot (www.thehoot.org) represented by Sevanti Ninan will follow, and the New Delhi launch of the book 'From Rajas and Yogis to Gandhi and Beyond' by Ms. Vijaya Mulay would close the inaugural session. The inaugural film is: Wagah by Supriyo Sen, and the closing film is: Sound of Tibet: Awakening Kindness by Kim Joon-Nyeon (with a repeat screening of Wagah) I invite you to attend the festival, and do please forward the invite to your friends and networks in Delhi who might be interested to attend or write about the festival. With best wishes, Gargi Sen From aliens at dataone.in Sat Feb 20 18:18:50 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:18:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mallika Sarabhai's letter to Amitabh Bachchan In-Reply-To: <98f331e01002192120mf5daa9fnc87230ea532ee896@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e01002192120mf5daa9fnc87230ea532ee896@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001cab22b$0dd2ff30$2978fd90$@in> Once again anti Gujarat stance renounce from Madam Mallika and unfortunately she is a daughter of the great scientist Dr. Vikram Sarabhai, who always think with fore sight the development of Gujarat and India. Mr. Bhachchan as celebrity and icon of India, becomes a brand ambassador of Gujarat with good gesture and without any fees just to boost tourism and by that way huge revenue and employment can be generated. So, what is wrong in it and why madam irritate with this happening, because Mr. Narendra Modi succeeded to brought him? Feel very pity for her with such mind. Irrespective of whether Gujarat progresses or not (according to madam not progressing) if celebrity like Bachchan helps to the state tourism promotion what is wrong with it. How, madam decide that decision came with single meeting. Madam does not know the procedure that decision comes with series of lower/secretariat level meetings and then top authority like CM and Bachchan meets to finalize. Such meeting is having media highlight only so it does not mean that only one meeting decision it is. If it is not progressing then also to promote tourism is part of development only. So, why oppose. This proves madam anti Gujarat stance once again. Point by point answer raised by the madam in the next mail. Thanks Bipin __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4881 (20100219) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Feb 20 14:58:49 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:58:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation In-Reply-To: <000001cab129$f5cc41a0$e164c4e0$@in> References: <000001cab129$f5cc41a0$e164c4e0$@in> Message-ID: <25FC0353-687E-4523-AAA9-588B1CABE6C5@sarai.net> Dear Bipin, I agree, Praveen Swami is no authority, and I agree, that it is unfortunate that religious prefixes (hindu or muslim) are applied to terrorism, after all, they are usually not applied to other crimes, we do not hear of hindu or muslim bank robberies, for instance. I for instance, have always condemned the trial by media of people like Sadhvi Pragya, on the same grounds as I have condemned the same when it happened to of any of the young men arrested in the wake of the so called Batla House encounter. I think that no one should be allowed to pronounce any person guilty until they have had access to a free and fair trial. I hold this to be true even in the case of people I do not agree with politically. I totally oppose Hindutva, and I think Sadhvi Pragya's brand of politics is dangerous, but, at the same time, I believe she, like everyone else has the right to a free and a fair trial, and that she (or anyone else) should not have to be subjected to invasive and brutal procedures like 'Narco Analysis' without consent. I expect everyone on this list to share my concern for the fate of undertrial prisoners in India, regardless of political sympathies. And I hope that the latest episode in Pune does not lead to yet another round of the violation of rights of people, regardless of whether they are Hindu or Muslim, regardless of whether they are affiliated to Abhinav Bharat or SIMI, through instances of preventive detention under draconian laws. The only decent way forward is through a proper criminal investigation, not through picking up young people from their homes in the dead of night, and making them 'confess' using third degree methods, as is usually done in the wake of a terrorist atrocity. Let me come back to Mr. Swami. Whenever Mr. Swami offers his take and his analysis, say on Kashmir, usually, some people on this list, whose sympathies lie with the Indian state's position on Kashmir, have always offered us the same (Swami's outpourings) as pearls of wisdom. To be fair, we should be as open to be sceptical of what Praveen Swami writes about when he writes about Kashmir, as we are when he writes about the possible Hindutva links to terrorism in Pune. I agree with you, that one should not succumb to the "fashion of blaming 'Hindus' " for any and every terrorist attack, and I sincerely hope that you too will restrain yourself from being carried away by the even more overwhelmingly prevalent fashion of identifiying terrorism with Islam or Muslims. best Shuddha On 19-Feb-10, at 11:38 AM, Bipin wrote: > Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my > humble duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. > Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based > terrorists group with the help of local support. The intention is > clear, by this false reporting they want to divert/mislead the > investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as sleeper > cell. > > It’s a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such > fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar > fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such > mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot > freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, > congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from > vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list- > bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject > again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take > it seriously. > > ------- > Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Praveen Swami > > Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group > may have carried out German Bakery bombing > > PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant > Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role > in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the > rogue military officer with rose petals. > > Last week’s bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly > story of Abhinav Bharat — the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped > found — back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the > Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik > began. > > In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the > bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva > terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young > Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing > that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a > Hindutva group. > > Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved > in Abhinav Bharat’s terror campaign have never been held. Jatin > Chatterjee — better known by his alias Swami Asimanand — is thought to > be hiding out in Gujarat’s Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu > proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat’s > key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. > > Founded in the summer of 2006, Abhinav Bharat was set up as an > educational trust with Himani Savarkar — daughter of Gopal Godse, > brother of Mahatma Gandhi’s assassin — as its chairperson. But, > documents filed by Maharashtra prosecutors show, members of the group > were soon involved in discussing armed activity. In June 2007, Purohit > allegedly suggested that the time had come to target Muslims through > terrorist attacks — a plea others in Abhinav Bharat rejected. > > But, the evidence gathered by the police suggests, many within the > group were determined to press ahead. At a meeting in April 2008, key > suspects including Madhya Pradesh-based Hindutva activist Pragnya > Singh Thakur and Jammu cleric Sudhakar Dwivedi, also known as > Amritananda Dev Tirtha, met Purohit to hammer out the Malegaon plot. > Explosives were later procured by Purohit, and handed over to > Kalsangra in early August 2008. > > Abhinav Bharat’s long-term aims, though, went far beyond targeting > Muslims: its members wanted to overthrow the Indian state and replace > it with a totalitarian, theocratic order. A draft constitution > prepared by Abhinav Bharat spoke of a single-party system, presided > over by a leader who “shall be followed at all levels without > questioning the authority.” It called for the creation of an “academy > of indoctrinization [sic.].” The concluding comment was stark: “People > whose ideas are detrimental to Hindu Rashtra should be killed.” > > Purohit’s plans to bring about a Hindutva state were often > fantastical. He claimed, the prosecutors say, to have secured an > appointment with Nepal’s King Gyanendra in 2006 and 2007 to press for > his support for the planned Hindutva revolution. Nepal, he went on, > was willing to train Abhinav Bharat’s cadre, and supply it with > assault rifles. Israel’s government, he said, had agreed to grant > members of the group military support and, if needed, political > asylum. > > Many believe that Abhinav Bharat carried out many attacks earlier > attributed to jihadist groups — notable among them, the bombing of the > Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad in May 2007, and a subsequent attack on the > famous shrine at Ajmer. Despite persistent questioning of Abhinav > Bharat cadre, though, the investigators have not been able to link the > group to the attacks. > > Matters are complicated by the fact that some of the operations > attributed to Abhinav Bharat may not have had much to do with the > group — even though its leading luminaries claimed responsibility for > the attacks. > > For example, Purohit allegedly claimed to confidants that the attack > was carried out by the Dewas-based Hindutva terrorist Sunil Joshi, who > was murdered in December 2007. But the United States Treasury > Department later imposed sanctions on Lashkar-e-Taiba activist Arif > Kasmani — a Karachi-based jihadist with close links to the Taliban and > al-Qaeda — for financing the attack. > > In January this year, Pakistan’s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik > went further, admitting that “there were some Pakistan-based Islamists > who had been hired to carry out the Samjhauta Express attack.” > > Judging by recent Hindutva terror attacks, like last year’s bombings > in Goa, it is unclear if they still have the capabilities to mount a > sophisticated attack of the kind seen in Pune. Few investigators > believe that the organisations — or other Hindutva cells — mounted the > operation. “Still”, says one Maharashtra police official involved in > investigating both Hindutva and jihadist attacks, “you can’t help > wondering — what if?” > > Signs are the investigation into the bombing of the German Bakery will > take time. All that investigators have by way of suspects are three > men recorded holding brief meetings before the blast by a poor-quality > closed-circuit television camera. From the videotape, it is unclear if > the men had anything to do with the attack. > > The longer the investigation takes, the more time conspiracy theories > and speculation will have to proliferate — likely deepening the > communal fissures the bombing is already opening up. > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/19/stories/2010021961571000.htm > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Feb 20 15:24:12 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:24:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <909917EA-1D53-45E0-9DB4-19E1F4AA2894@sarai.net> Aditya, Are you, or the 16 year-old Sakshi, whose juvenilia you have subjected us to, implying that in your 'padosi ke ghar' (neighbouring house - a not so veiled reference to the neighbouring country, Pakistan) children play with bombs? For the sake of our -Hindi speaking readers, the 'poem' by '16 year old Sakshi' that Aditya Raj Kaul has now sent us - translates, (roughly) as follows. I have read this poem very carefully. I take very serious objection to the fact that it suggests that Pakistani children are in some ways responsible for terrorist atrocities in India, specificially, in Pune. "...In my neighbour's house children play with bombs, and in mine, they play with a ball everyday, just like this, they play with pleasure sometimes, the balls finds their way into their house and their bombs find their way into mine this is what happened yesterday @ Pune they don't give us back our balls we don't give them back their bombs they are fortunate... and we...." Seriously Aditya, get a life, at least do not stoop so low as to imply, with this disgusting piece of innuendo, that Pakistani children are terrorists. At least let us leave children alone. Enraged and horrified at the amoral, cynical abyss that you inhabit, and that too at a relatively young age. Shuddha On 20-Feb-10, at 1:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Mr. Vij, > > I campaigned on roads with public, so media came out to support. I > felt the > brunt of this; as cases were slapped against me for protesting. > When you > can't argue Mr. Vij, you attack 'activists' personally on public > forums such > as these. > > My campaign however wasn't discussed in the Board meeting of some > Multi-National Company. My campaign didn't have commercials on > television, > radio and newspapers. > > It seems you are an expert on 'selling' campaigns. Wonder how that > happens! > Have you shifted your profession lately? Please do explain to us list > members in detail. > > Don't mix issues without thinking. It becomes cheap. > > As the moderators have the liberty to trash a value addition to the > list. So > do I have the right to counter 'trash' and 'propaganda' on this list. > > Dear Shuddhaji > > A 16 year of Sakshi sent me these lines a couple of days back - > > मेरे पड़ोस वाले घर में , > बच्चे बम से खेलते है... > > और मेरे बच्चे यहाँ गेंद > से... > > हर रोज़ युही मज़े से > खेलते है.. > > अक्सर गेंद उनके घर में > जाती है.. > > और उनके बम मेरे घर में > आते है... > > कल भी एसा ही दिन था, @pune > > पडोसी गेंद लोटाते नहीं, > > और हम भी उनके बम लोटाते > नहीं ... > > वो खुश किस्मत है ... > > और हम .... > > thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् > विज् > wrote: > >> Shri Aditya Raj Kaulji has for some weeks now been telling the world >> about how Aman ki Asha has to do with m-words like "media >> market-management". Has he no sense of irony? he, the master of >> "media >> market-managment" campaigns of various causes? Jab tumhara campaign >> bikta hai toh peace, kisi aur ka toh market? Kuch to sharam karon. >> >> On 17 February 2010 17:21, Aditya Raj Kaul >> wrote: >>> Dear Shri Shuddhabrata Senguptaji >>> >>> Namaskar >>> >>> I have merely forwarded a reaction from a common Indian to the >>> recent >>> developments of 'Aman Ki Asha' around. I can see you agitated. >>> Wonder >> what >>> makes you so uncomfortable! Is it the truth of Islamic-terrorism >>> or the >>> engagement politics and media market-management of Peace? >>> >>> It hardly matters to me how a godamn 'My Name Is Khan' does at >>> the box >>> office. I condenm the protests against it. However, terrorism >>> matters to >> me >>> and every Indian not how much money a producer makes out of made-up >>> publicity. We don't want protection of a bloody movie; we want >>> security >> for >>> citizens of this country. >>> >>> You have yet again displayed intolerance and abused my right to >> participate >>> in this so called 'Liberal' forum. I am not facing this for the >>> first >> time. >>> It has become usual for me. Wonder if I calculate the wastage of >>> time to >> us >>> by some of the rhetoric of far extremist, intolerant and left >>> lunatic >>> fringe. >>> >>> Have tolerance in letter and spirit. We have heard enough of your >>> fake >> Batla >>> House and several other such theories. What happened to them, if >>> I may >> ask? >>> >>> Pakistan is suffering from something which it initiated decades >>> ago. It >> will >>> continue to burn. I never objected to views from Pakistani >>> public. Though >>> Kashmir can never be on dialogue table with Pakistan. Nor can it >>> be with >>> terrorists who some glorify in this forum. >>> >>> Congrats to you and other co-founders of Sarai, which completed a >>> decade >>> recently. I pray for more, patience, tolerance and flow of rational >> thought >>> to the Sarai. >>> >>> And hope you hold/delete/block less/none of our e-mails from now >>> onwards. >>> Even that may be abuse of liberty, something you are very well >>> versed >> with >>> yourself. >>> >>> I don't want this this to turn into a relay e-mail exchange as has >> happened >>> in the past. >>> >>> regards >>> >>> 2010/2/17 Shuddhabrata Sengupta >>> >>>> Aditya, >>>> >>>> I regret that you have once again abused the space of liberty on >>>> this >> list >>>> by forwarding this idiotic poem, which I have wasted my time by >>>> reading. >>>> >>>> I am normally not a fan of the Times of India, or the Jang Group of >>>> Newspapers, but, I have to say, that the steady stream of >>>> opposition >> that >>>> their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems to be gathering from the >>>> usual >>>> suspects makes me even more interested in what the 'Aman ki Asha' >> initiative >>>> is all about. I sincerely hope that it sets a trend, and that other >> media >>>> corporations and other agencies mirror it by setting up their own >>>> initiatives for sustaining the resources of peace in South Asia, >>>> and >>>> especially between India and Pakistan, in these difficult times. >>>> >>>> Having tasted a bitter defeat after attempting their thuggery on >>>> the 'My >>>> Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right is now seeking a >>>> fruitless second >>>> wind, by riding the waves of the regrettable bomb blast that >>>> occured in >> the >>>> German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to surf this wave is >>>> pathetic. The >>>> xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, and no amount of impotent >>>> roaring >> from >>>> Matoshtree will make it walk again. >>>> >>>> I find the poem that you sent, strongly objectionable, because >>>> it makes >> no >>>> attempt to distinguish between different kinds of opinion and >>>> publics in >>>> Pakistan. >>>> >>>> The poem says - >>>> >>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, >>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. >>>> >>>> >>>> For those who do not understand Hindi. These lines can be >>>> translated as >>>> follows - >>>> >>>> "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, lives were sacrificed >>>> In their hearts, Paki monsters rejoiced" >>>> >>>> I am aware of the fact that time and again, whenever terrorist >> atrocities >>>> occur in India, a significant section of Pakistani political >>>> society >> condemn >>>> acts of terrorism in no uncertain terms. Many people in India >>>> do the >> same >>>> when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To lump all Pakistanis (or >>>> for that >>>> matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who 'rejoice in their hearts' >>>> when >> loss >>>> of life occurs, is disgusting. I find your endorsement of this >> disgusting >>>> sentiment shameful. >>>> >>>> There is a very strong body of public opinion in Pakistan that >>>> wants >> peace >>>> in South Asia, and realizes that peace is the only way forward in >> Pakistan. >>>> They act vigilantly against war-mongers and preachers of >>>> prejudice in >>>> Pakistan, exactly as many of us act vigilantly against the >>>> constituency >> that >>>> advocates permanent aggression here. That includes our vigilance >>>> against >>>> your hate filled agenda. >>>> >>>> Whenever an atrocity like what happened in Pune occurs, I find >>>> that the >>>> constituency of rabid right-wing nationalism comes crawling out >>>> like >> maggots >>>> to feast on the dead. As if they were waiting for tragedy to >>>> strike to >> once >>>> again find their reason for existence. >>>> >>>> Have none of these people any shame? Have you none at all? >>>> >>>> Shuddha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Irma Razdan >>>> Date: 2010/2/17 >>>> Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA >>>> To: >>>> >>>> For my Hindi speaking followers, this is a poem that was >>>> authored by a >> mod >>>> of a forum which is my frequent haunt. It is a take on the >>>> recent 'Aman >> ki >>>> Asha' program by the Times of India and Jang group of Pakistan, >>>> which is >>>> supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace project. Newbies, please refer >>>> to link. >>>> >>>> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर >>>> सुबह अमन की आशा, >>>> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और >>>> दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया >>>> तमाशा, >>>> >>>> पीठ में ख़ंजर भोंका >>>> जिनने, मानवता को ही छला, >>>> आज बोलते चले हैं वोही, >>>> कैसी शांति की भाषा, >>>> >>>> ज़मीन के लालच को धर्म >>>> का मुखौटा पहना, >>>> जिन जल्लादों ने छीना >>>> भारत माँ का गहना, >>>> आज उन्ही से रखनी होगी, >>>> हमको प्रेम की अभिलाषा >>>> वाह रे टाइम्स ऑफ >>>> इंडिया, क्या खूब है तेरी >>>> आशा. >>>> >>>> देखो कैप्टन कालिया, >>>> ऐसा हुआ आपका बलिदान, >>>> आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु और क़सब >>>> को शायद मिल जाये जीवनदान, >>>> छब्बीस-ग्यारह दोहराने >>>> को बेचैन हैं जिनके >>>> जेहादी, >>>> दोस्ती का राग सुना रहे, >>>> वही कियानी, ज़रदारी और >>>> गीलानी, >>>> कौआ चले हंस की चाल, देखो >>>> इनकी मीठी भाषा, >>>> हमें दोस्ती का पाठ >>>> पढ़ाएंगे, अब सूजा अहमद >>>> पाशा. >>>> >>>> हमारे अपने नेताओं ने, >>>> देश को भी नहीं बख़्शा >>>> नपुंसक से भी कम पौरुष >>>> जिनमें, वो करेंगे देश की >>>> रक्षा? >>>> बातचीत के ज़रिये ये, >>>> मिटा देंगे सारे भेद >>>> आधा कश्मीर खोने का, >>>> इनको ज़रा नहीं खेद, >>>> राष्ट्र को किया >>>> लज्जित, दी शर्म-अल- >>>> शेख़ में निराशा, >>>> समझे नहीं हम किसने लिखी >>>> आख़िर उस दस्तावेज़ की >>>> भाषा. >>>> कब तक जयचंदों को जनती >>>> रहेगी हे माता! >>>> कब तक तेरे बच्चों को >>>> होती रहेगी हताशा, >>>> >>>> आतंकवाद की आग में जब जल >>>> रहा है पाकिस्तान, >>>> ऐसी हालत में इनके >>>> हृदय में जागा है इंसान, >>>> दिल्ली मुंबई अहमदाबाद >>>> ने जब की थीं जानें >>>> क़ुर्बान, >>>> मन ही मन खुश होते थे यही >>>> पाकी हैवान, >>>> देखो भारतवासियों, रखना >>>> इतना ध्यान, >>>> राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ >>>> में ही सदा देना तुम कमान, >>>> झूठे धर्म-निरपक्षों से >>>> रहना तुम सावधान, >>>> वोट बैंक बनकर कभी मत >>>> करना मतदान. >>>> >>>> बोस, पटेल, सावरकर ने, >>>> जिस देश को है तराशा, >>>> लूट ना ले उसको फिर, यह >>>> झूठी अमन की आशा. >>>> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर >>>> सुबह अमन की आशा, >>>> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और >>>> दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया >>>> तमाशा. >>>> >>>> English Transliteration: >>>> >>>> Aman Ki Aasha >>>> >>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, >>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha, >>>> >>>> Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, manavta ko hi chhala, >>>> aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi shanti ki bhaasha, >>>> >>>> zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta pehna, >>>> jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka gehna, >>>> aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki abhilaasha, >>>> wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai teri Aasha. >>>> >>>> Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka balidaan, >>>> Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad mil jaaye jeevandaan, >>>> Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, bechain hain jinkay jehadi, >>>> hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani >>>> Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki meethi bhaasha, >>>> hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab Sooja Ahmed Pasha. >>>> >>>> Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi baksha, >>>> Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh karenge desh ki raksha? >>>> baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge saare bhed, >>>> aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara nahi khed, >>>> Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, >>>> samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir us dastavez ki bhasha. >>>> Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he maata, >>>> Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi hataasha. >>>> >>>> Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha hai Pakistan, >>>> Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, jaaga hai insaan, >>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, >>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. >>>> Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna dhyan, >>>> Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada dana tum kamaan, >>>> Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna tom saavdhaan, >>>> vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna matdaan. >>>> >>>> Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko hai taraasha, >>>> loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman ki aasha. >>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, >>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha. >>>> >>>> Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >>>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >>>> Raqs Media Collective >>>> shuddha at sarai.net >>>> www.sarai.net >>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >>> Freelance Writer >>> >>> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Feb 20 16:34:12 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:34:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Marxism Exposed: How Labour And The Tories Are Destroying Britain In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002200036r71ab7e32j9830a191ab0e6b7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002200036r71ab7e32j9830a191ab0e6b7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39965BE4-F975-4138-B4E8-19F438BA0C03@sarai.net> Dear All, I am delighted by Pawan Durani's endorsement and quotation from a website - www.greenarrow.co.uk - that declares its mission to be to - "...unoffiically support the British National Party in their fight to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia." The British National Party, as is well known (though perhaps not to Mr. Durani) is the far right wing fascist party that wants a 'whites only' United Kingdom. Had Pawan Durani happened to be a hard working Asian Migrant in Britain, then, he would know that the BNP are the ones who control the thugs that subject all asians and all people of colour in Britain to racist abuse, and indeed violent attacks. To the BNP's not very nuanced form of politics, Mr. Durani's protestations, were he a South Asian immigrant subjected to their attacks, that maybe he hates muslims as much as they do, would not hold much water. For the BNP's cadre, even Mr. Durani, because he is a South Asian of colour, would only be a "Paki". The BNP, the Shiv Sena and needless to say, the Lashkar-e-Toiba, share the same view about those who happen not to agree with them, or to pollute their understanding of 'pure' homelands. It is indeed wonderful to see Mr. Durani in such august company. I have always maintained that someday the Hindutva hard right will understand that their natural allies are the KKK and Islamist fundamentalists. Perhaps Mr. Durani is a beacon of this dawning understanding. What is even more interesting is that Mr. Durani has offered for our perusal a long tract that along with suggesting that the Labour and the Conservative Parties in the UK are currently controlled by Marxists (how I wish this were true) also suggests that Marx and Engels were racist holocaust promoters (Note that the BNP's self confessed racism and its known, persistent, flirtation with holocaust deniers and neo-nazis in Europe is left uncommented on). Marx and Engels, in their necessary polemics against the deeply anti- semitic and reactionary elements within Slav nationalism did perhaps use some regrettable and sweeping expressions. As someone sympathetic to the vision and politics of Karl Marx, I have no hesitation in critquing them, and in seeing within them traces of the provincial markers of Marx and Engels' own intellectual formations. Marx and Engels are not and were not gods who could do no wrong. They were fallible and interesting human beings with their own prejudices and quirks, (many of which changed during their lifetimes). We have to ask, however, whether Marx and Engels remained wedded to these sentiments throughout their lives. Both became champions of the liberty of colonially subjugated peoples, in India and Ireland, for instance, (even though Marx might have, contrary to his own sympathies, condemned Indian societies to the 'refuse of history' ) without falling prey to Nationalism, and Marx, more so than Engels was able to distance himself from some of his more extreme cultural prejudices, prejudices, which were indeed commonplace in the milieu in which they found themselves, in Victorian Britain and nineteenth century Europe. But to put their remarks in proper context, what Marx, and more specifically Engels meant by the deployment of the 'Ethnic Trash', (volkerabfall) term - was that the matter of 'national' interest and the 'nationality question' in Europe, especially as it played out in Eastern Europe was a divisive and reactionary brand of politics that sought to divide European Workers on the basis of their racial and ethnic origins. Slav Nationalists were at the foreground of the anti- semitic pogroms that swept through Eastern Europe in the nineteenth century, and it was perhaps in this context that Marx and Engels made their pronouncements. Bakunin, Marx's adversary in the First International, was able to combine his laudable anarchism, with an unfortunately venomous anti-semitic streak, and the polemics against Bakunin, do give Marx and Engels an unfortunate and shrill edge. Having said this, it is equally important to recognize, that Marx himself came to recognize the slav traditions of the rural peasant commune in Russia as providing perhaps a means to bypass Capitalism on the way to a Communist future. (See his draft of a letter to Vera Zasulich at - http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1881/03/ zasulich1.htm - ). While Marx's estimation of the Slav traditions of peasant communism may have been an 'over-estimation' at least they demonstrate that he held the traditions of the peoples he had himself once thought to have been 'refuse of history' (which would be the more accuate gloss of terms like Volkerabfall) in high regard. Mr. Durani's anti-marx prejudice seems to have been acquired under some special circumstances, because he swings from one extreme to another, in exhibiting it. Right now, he has tried, with the help of the fascist BNP's unofficial supporters, that Marx was racist. Not so long ago, however, he had himself (perhaps unwittingly) become the vehicle for the transmission of the classic anti-semitiic (anti- Jewish) slur against Karl Marx. Not many may remember, but I do, that on the 15th of November, 2008, Mr. Durani, apropos of Karl Marx, had written, in this very list, the following gem. "We do not live inside some mind like that of Karl Marx and the occultist elite who funded him (Satanic Rothschild Dynasty ). We live in a real world." [ See - http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-November/ 016614.html ] In response to that slur, I had composed a brief (and alas, unsent) riposte to Mr. Durani, which I now offer for all your entertainment. Please enjoy, but while doing so, remember how, Pawan Durani can suddenly be a bleeding heart liberal (without any irony) in the company of the racist BNP one day, and a sly anti-semite on another occasion. I marvel at his versatility and his flexibility. Perhaps it comes from not having to be bothered by the inconvenience of an ethical spine. best Shuddha "I have heard many really low down and colourful anti-semitic jibes in my life. But the one about Karl Marx being funded by the 'satanic' Rothschild family takes the cake. I am absolutely delighted that Pawan Durani has offered us this rich serving of tripe. The 'frisson' of this rumour of course has to do with the fact that both Karl Marx and the Rothschilds were Jewish by birth. I am familiar with this story, as I am and have been a keen observer of right wing esoterica both on the internet and beyond it, and the 'Marx-Rothschild-Jewish- Communist' Plot to take over the universe has a long and distinguished pedigree on the outer fringes of the loony right. This rumour circulates widely amongst virulntly anti-semitic Christian Evangelical websites (whom Pawan Durani may or many not be so comfortable with,as they are not known for being nice to Hindus, and also amongst the higher echelons of the followers of Mahmoud Ahmedinijad, though here it is generally found in Farsi), and indeed, is to be found in Ku Klux Klan literature. All of is apparently based on accounts of two 'cheques' in the British Museum which show that Marx was paid by the Rothschild to destroy the world as we know it. Marx received some stipends from a distant relative of his who had links with the family that founded the Phillips engineering corporation. And of course he was supported by his friend and comrade Friedrich Engels, whose income derived from the operations of his family firm in Manchester. The 'Marx-Rothschild Fuding' rumour is said to have originated in the pre-firing squad confessions of the dissident Bolshevik Rakovsky to Stalin's secret police, the NVKD, and was then circulated, first in Francoist circles in Latin America and Spain, before taking a new life on the internet. This is a wonderfully surreal world, with born again Christians, Stalinists, occultists of a discreetly Nazi persuasion, KKKites, Ahmedinijad supporters and anti-semites graced now by the company of none other than our very own Pawan Durani. If the sad day of a Hindutva-Stalinist takeover of India were ever to arrive, then I would hope that delirious repetitions of rumours first circulated about on the Reader List by people desparate to say anything to escape the cold end of a pistol's nozzle do not land me in trouble. I had better take care, before Pawan or his zealot friends discover my jewish great aunt Rahel's address in some remote Kolkata bylane, and having done so, furnish an updated edition of the 'Protocol of the Elders of Zion' to state that I (nothing other than a diluted Jew) the ghost of those devious Jews Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky, the current wife of Amartya Sen (none other than Emma Rothschild, "Oh my god, they got him the nobel prize" and everyone knows that Amartya Sen hates hindutva) are party to the conspiracy to destroy the planet. Perhaps the details of this would include speculations about whether or not I 'recieved' ghost money from the ghost of Marx, sourced from the ghost of Rothschilds. Did I hear someone say that global warming was a crypto Jewish- Marxist-plot in league with giant lizard aliens, and that yesterday's patriotic Indian mission to the moon, was only the first salvo in the galactic war against global warming, which is actually produced by the swarming of anti-national elements on the internet, which somehow produces lunar currents, which in turn leads to global warming. No, I didn't. But if we are to believe Pawan Durani on Marx and the Rothschild's we might as well prepare ourselves to believe this too. regards, Shuddha" ------ On 20-Feb-10, at 2:06 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Part One: Birth Of The New Man > > Introduction > > Something is wrong with Great Britain and Western Civilisation. Badly > wrong. Imagine, if you will, that the brave warriors who fought to > preserve Great Britain from tyranny during the Second World War have > been resurrected and allowed to visit modern day Britain to see for > themselves the fruits of their sacrifice. > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From aliens at dataone.in Sat Feb 20 19:09:56 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:09:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Message-ID: <000c01cab232$3076c740$916455c0$@in> From: Bipin [mailto:aliens at dataone.in] Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 7:05 PM To: 'Kshmendra Kaul' Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Dear Kshemendra, No contradiction. That is what reported by ATS and Pune commissioner officially. Please refer the their reports. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Lashkars-breakaway-group-claims-Pun e-blast/articleshow/5582056.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Pune-blast-Investigators-find-H eadley-links-expect-breakthrough-soon/articleshow/5584815.cms Nr. Headley has visited Pune/Osho Ashram earlier many times this is what confirmed officially Thanks Bipin From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:37 PM To: Bipin; Javed Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Dear Bipin You have contradicted yourself by using double standards Earlier you wrote "Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support." Now you write "Still investigation going on and there is no necessary to create doubts unless you have solid proof." Kshmendra --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Bipin wrote: From: Bipin Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation To: Cc: "sarai-list" Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 1:31 PM Still investigation going on and there is no necessary to create doubts unless you have solid proof. If he speaks for Islamic terrorism in general as well as Hindu terrorism in general is always welcome. Similarly, if he created doubt on malegoan blast that Islamic group is involved were also investigation going on would have been opposed if I have noticed. -----Original Message----- From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com ] Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:31 PM To: Bipin Cc: sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Dear Bipin When Praveen Swami writes about Islamic terrorism and Kashmiri extremists with intricate details (which no other journalist has access to), we believe him gleefully to score our points about Pakistan and so on. But now, when he raises doubts if Hindutva forces were involved in this terror act, we discard him as "no authority". I would like you to see some of the following links to see what an authority Praveen Swami is considered on such matters: http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/display/ssispsru/Mr+Praveen+Swami http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/praveen-swami-lets-the-cat-out-of -the-bag/ http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2008/09/28/praveen-swamis-book-on-the-secre t-jihad-in-kashmir/ http://www.outlookindia.com/peoplefnl.aspx?author=Praveen%20Swami &pid=4139 On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Bipin > wrote: > Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want to divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as sleeper cell. > > It's a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net ] On Behalf Of Javed > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM > To: sarai list > Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject > again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take > it seriously. > > ------- > Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation > > Praveen Swami > > Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group > may have carried out German Bakery bombing > > PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant > Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role > in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the > rogue military officer with rose petals. > > Last week's bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly > story of Abhinav Bharat - the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped > found - back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the > Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik > began. > > In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the > bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva > terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young > Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing > that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a > Hindutva group. > > Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved > in Abhinav Bharat's terror campaign have never been held. Jatin > Chatterjee - better known by his alias Swami Asimanand - is thought to > be hiding out in Gujarat's Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu > proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat's > key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4872 (20100216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From justjunaid at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 20:09:38 2010 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:39:38 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Shuddha, As you know, I have always admired your sustained (and reasoned) defense of the Kashmiri struggle. I also share, to the letter, your vision of a possible future Kashmir. There have been many obstacles in the past and there still remain many in actualizing all, or even most, of the substance that you have outlined. My hope is that the natural strength of these arguments, for a free, open, and hospitable Kashmir, will eventually cut through much of the dense haze of religious extremism and any form of chauvinistic nationalism. I say "natural strength" because I think, and it needs sympathetic eyes and ears and touch to find that there are elements already present, both concrete and amorphous, solid and fragmented, that need restoration, healing, and reorientation, to lay a solid base for our vision to actualize. To make this possible, we need now to move beyond "news." We can no longer afford to be led astray by the daily business of events, and we must continuously cut through them. Our debates must not remain hostage to ossified categories, nor our imagination pegged to official and communalistic chronologies. It now requires a sustained engagement with people on the ground, instead of just among ourselves. Our solidarity must be based on a shared vision for a future Kashmir which new events must not be allowed to flounder. We have to be patient as well. New languages, even if many elements for it to form are already present, will take time to take root. We need to disseminate this vision widely. And not only in Kashmir, but in the rest of southasia as well. many regards, junaid On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:03 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Junaid, > Thank you for your lucid outlining of a possible future. I agree with you, > and I think the steps outlined by you - withdrawal of all occupying forces > and a plebiscite or plebiscite held under independent international auspices > - are both practicable and desirable > But for this process to live up to its promise, we, all of us,  (and I mean > not just people in Kashmir) but in India and Pakistan and all of South Asia, > desparately need different visions of what a Kashmir free of occupation can > be like. My hope is that it can be a de-militarized beacon for South Asia, a > free and open society that is as hospitable to strangers as it is committed > to the liberty of all (regardless of race, sex, religion, class, caste or > sexual orientation) its citizens. For this to move towards possibility, we > need plans, visions, and the daily business of argument over utopias as well > as concrete programmes. I hope that our friends in Kashmir will be as open > in sharing their visions of how they see Kashmir in the future as they have > been in sharing their just anger at the violence of the occupation, > i remain in hope, > yours > Shuddha > On 18-Feb-10, at 10:27 PM, Junaid wrote: > > Hi Tara, > I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of > parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let > ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze > our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by > itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane > solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate > of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if > we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums > (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more > hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." > Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and > Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who > don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let > Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) > be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create > conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, > negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. > When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 > Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve > issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate > a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international > observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people > who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and > negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole > thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the > the process and its outcome. > Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on > the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of > this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of > states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and > aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and > the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. > Junaid > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash wrote: > > Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. > It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" > To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" > Cc: "Sarai" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > The dispute involves  the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 and > included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, Ladakh, > Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan.  If you talk about solutions then > you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people and > not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > > From: TaraPrakash > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 > To: Junaid > Cc: > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this > old > > problem. > Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which > > Kashmiris" was > > not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri > > nationality, or > > unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just > > canceling the > > noise. > JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the > > brutal Mujahaddins, in > > their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, > > moved to J&K. From > > then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their > > homes. Every > > dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women > > were told > > to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces > > was their > > fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred > > and if > > that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being > > vocal. > > Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they > > Kashmiris? But > > they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. > > Aren't they > > Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are > > Kashmiris in > > POK free? > Those who are part of National conference or PDP, > > aren't they Kashmiris? > > Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the > > question still remains which > > Kashmiris? > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > "Junaid" > > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: > > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Dear Tara, > I quote you: "But > > isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? > > Which Kashmiris?" End. > I > > absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two > > follow-up > > questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones > > that will lead us to > > specifics. If anything they will further push us > > into a metaphysics of denial. > > I assume you know enough about Kashmir > > and are aware that there is no shortage > > of solutions. Indian > > government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a > > political issue, > > and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that > > remains > > is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The > > "right > > solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free > > and > > fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives > > for > > Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made > it > > clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be > > forced down > > the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's > > legitimacy and > > authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows > > that is, can go to > > "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the > > problem). The first step would > > be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of > > their problem, that is allow them to > > find the right solution with a > > guarantee that it will be accepted. > The second > > question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we > > really keep > > telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By > > asking this question, are > > you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? > > If you believe that "the people" > > have to elect their representatives, > > how can you in the same breath deny the > > existence of those same > > people? > I guess the first "concrete suggestions" > > would be the dismantling of > > the draconian military and police apparatus from > > Kashmir: i.e. 1. > > remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of > > military and > > police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA > > and > > Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies > involved > > in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. > > Allow Kashmiris to > > peacefully express their dissent (remove > > restrictions on free speech and > > assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the > > stranglehold that the security agencies > > have over the everyday life of > > people through technics of surveillance and > > proliferation of threats. > > Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next > > ones. At least it > > will show that the Indian government is sincere in its > > efforts to > > solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to > > tire > > people out. > Junaid > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash > > wrote: > "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to > be solved, with the full > involvement of Kashmiris." > Agreed. But isn't it > time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > Kashmiris? A democratic > exercise requires people to elect their > representatives who can talk on > their behalf. But those who are chosen, > are > found to be going "to any > extent to please their masters in Delhi" > I don't think the Indian govt or UN > can talk to every Kashmiri on this > earth > for the resolution of the > problem. > It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions > towards > resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate > people, > so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a > climate > towards > resolution of the issue. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Junaid" > To: ; "Junaid" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > Subject: > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Dozens of young boys have > > been arrested across Kashmir under draconian > > laws over the last few weeks. > > The charges that have been filed against > > them range from "waging war > > against the state" to defiling "state > > honor". In recent months Indian > > military and police commanders have > > described protests in Kashmir as > > "agitational terrorism" and > > "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify > > violent clampdown on > > protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 > > people, mostly > > teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured > > by > > indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the > > number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile > > thousands of > > people have been injured. Many of them will be left with > > permanent physical > > disabilities. The police authorities have banned > > any peaceful assembly of > > people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and > > other towns have reported > > police brutalities. Even the villages are > > not being spared. Only yesterday, > > mourning villagers were attacked by > > CRPF troopers in Redwani in South > > Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured > > by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most > > of the injuries were inflicted > > above the waist showing an intention to > > kill. > > India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, > > but > > in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel > > dimension. > > The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline > > and > > demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian > > state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to > > deceive > > its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris > > in Azad > > Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy > > has been there > > for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought > > back every few years > > to earn brownie points. > > National Conference government which has proved > > its inability to > > function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't > > even remove > > an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has > > sought to > > play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent > > to > > please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for > > leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel > > police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and > > Kashmir > > police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, > > perhaps in a > > bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian > > army's help. > > Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart > > from > > the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is > > time, the > > conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity > > with > > Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's > > inhuman > > tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to > > stop human > > rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that > > Kashmir is a > > political issue that needs to be solved, with the full > > involvement of > > Kashmiris. > > _____________________ > Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K > > gov; > > Riyaz Wani > > > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 > > The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for > > Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or life > > in > > jail. > > The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against > > eight > > stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week > > while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section > > 121 of > > CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home > > Department > > told The Indian Express that the government was ready with > > PSAs against ł20 > > more such youths˛. > > The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court > > on Monday. Police > > sought their remand for eight days, which was soon > > granted by Judge > > Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told > > the court, > > were directly involved in pelting stones at police and > > security > > forces. > However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said > > the youths were held > > in random raids across the city and were not involved > > in > > stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of > > CrPC. > > J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety > > Act > > during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be > > booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released > > shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during > > protests > > over the death of two women in Shopian. > > IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said > > he was not in a position to give łthe > > exact number of youths˛ booked under > > PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am > > out of station and donąt have the exact > > number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian > > Express. > Police say waging war against > > country, judge not impressed > > _____________ > Police say waging war > > against country, judge not impressed > > Peerzada Ashiq > > peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com > > Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted > > Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a > > raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows > > of chairs. łYes madam. > > Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 > > jostled youth with red > > cheeks and red hands because of cold. > This is > > no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday > > in downtown > > Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The > > police presented > > them before the court on Monday for extending their > > police remand. But > > after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the > > boys to judicial remand > > for 15 days. > > łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in > > advance?˛ > > judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. > > łThrough > > reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. > łHow > > is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these > > reliable > > sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation > > officer, looking > > at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, > > and involved for the > > last five years.˛ > > There was sudden commotion in the court room, when > > Zahid, one of the > > accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time > > we are in the > > lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, > > who was on > > the bike when the police arrested him. > The boy, wearing a > > pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are > > joined by others in the > > room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, > > requesting them to wipe tears > > and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be > > done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief > > Minister Omar Abdullah told the > > media we are launching a crackdown against > > stone-pelters, the police > > are picking up anyone who comes in the way. > > The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in > > heavy > > chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against > > the state and > > insulting the national honour. The punishment includes > > life imprisonment. > > The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar > > and were presented > > before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. > > Lawyer Joo contested > > that the police cannot impose the waging a war > > against the nation unless a > > magistrate has done an investigation in a > > case and the police cannot do it > > on their own. > > While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a > > row, their > > relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their > > innocence: > > łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and > > arrested > > us,˛ they said. > While a policeman shouted back: łThey have > > snatched our peace.˛ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & > > Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > ______________________ > > ___________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > From aliens at dataone.in Sat Feb 20 20:28:39 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:28:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation In-Reply-To: <25FC0353-687E-4523-AAA9-588B1CABE6C5@sarai.net> References: <000001cab129$f5cc41a0$e164c4e0$@in> <25FC0353-687E-4523-AAA9-588B1CABE6C5@sarai.net> Message-ID: <001101cab23d$302ff940$908febc0$@in> Dear Shuddha, Yes you are right that religious prefixes are applied to terrorism, but why? You think yourself the answer after putting the hand on your heart. I don't want to reveal anything on it. Trial by media is always condemnable, but media does not give any verdict or conclusion. Media point out loop holes carried out on investigation under pressure for eg. Ruchika and other such cases where powerful man's political pressure averted and convicted. Please read the report of young man arrest of Batla house in the link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Shahzad-shot-at-inspector-was- to-go-to-Pak/articleshow/5543778.cms where police arrested for remand and he himself confessed the thing earlier. If you oppose even remand against suspect then no crime/terrorism cases can be solved. So, you are wrong in this stand. Well you oppose Hindutva/Hinduism but keep mum on Islamism/Christianism. Hope, you must oppose that also. Narco Analysis is part of investigation and is not counted as proof and not the sole criteria for conviction. It leads the way to further investigation and help to gather proofs. I don't know what Praveen Swami has written for Kashmir. But, there is no dispute on J&K as its belong to India, why you have doubts on it is questionable thought of yours. Even POK is also belong to India, but, we, India as a sorry state tolerating it for so many years. As you say there is not at all prevalent fashion of identifying terrorism with Islam or Muslims. If we restrict to this topic for India only then also it is proved that Islamic groups with the support of pak ISI/army involved for terrorist atrocities in India. Do you have any doubts? So, I ask this question to all readers. Thanks Bipin From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta [mailto:shuddha at sarai.net] Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:59 PM To: Bipin Cc: 'Javed'; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Dear Bipin, I agree, Praveen Swami is no authority, and I agree, that it is unfortunate that religious prefixes (hindu or muslim) are applied to terrorism, after all, they are usually not applied to other crimes, we do not hear of hindu or muslim bank robberies, for instance. I for instance, have always condemned the trial by media of people like Sadhvi Pragya, on the same grounds as I have condemned the same when it happened to of any of the young men arrested in the wake of the so called Batla House encounter. I think that no one should be allowed to pronounce any person guilty until they have had access to a free and fair trial. I hold this to be true even in the case of people I do not agree with politically. I totally oppose Hindutva, and I think Sadhvi Pragya's brand of politics is dangerous, but, at the same time, I believe she, like everyone else has the right to a free and a fair trial, and that she (or anyone else) should not have to be subjected to invasive and brutal procedures like 'Narco Analysis' without consent. I expect everyone on this list to share my concern for the fate of undertrial prisoners in India, regardless of political sympathies. And I hope that the latest episode in Pune does not lead to yet another round of the violation of rights of people, regardless of whether they are Hindu or Muslim, regardless of whether they are affiliated to Abhinav Bharat or SIMI, through instances of preventive detention under draconian laws. The only decent way forward is through a proper criminal investigation, not through picking up young people from their homes in the dead of night, and making them 'confess' using third degree methods, as is usually done in the wake of a terrorist atrocity. Let me come back to Mr. Swami. Whenever Mr. Swami offers his take and his analysis, say on Kashmir, usually, some people on this list, whose sympathies lie with the Indian state's position on Kashmir, have always offered us the same (Swami's outpourings) as pearls of wisdom. To be fair, we should be as open to be sceptical of what Praveen Swami writes about when he writes about Kashmir, as we are when he writes about the possible Hindutva links to terrorism in Pune. I agree with you, that one should not succumb to the "fashion of blaming 'Hindus' " for any and every terrorist attack, and I sincerely hope that you too will restrain yourself from being carried away by the even more overwhelmingly prevalent fashion of identifiying terrorism with Islam or Muslims. best Shuddha On 19-Feb-10, at 11:38 AM, Bipin wrote: Please apologize me for sending bellow content again, but it's my humble duty to send it. Mr. Praveen Swami is no authority. Investigation is going on and all the clue leads to pak based terrorists group with the help of local support. The intention is clear, by this false reporting they want to divert/mislead the investigative agencies. Such a people are also counted as sleeper cell. It's a fashion now to blame Hindu on any terrorist attack by such fanatics. Samjauta express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar fanatics but they proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset increasing in India and with such mindset country cannot freed from terrorism unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress not showing any such will and do not want to come out from vote-bank politics of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Javed Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:28 AM To: sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Freinds, my apologies for flooding your mailboxes on this subject again and again. But if Praveen Swami says something, we better take it seriously. ------- Hindutva terror probe haunts Pune investigation Praveen Swami Investigators focus on jihadist groups, but some fear Hindutva group may have carried out German Bakery bombing PUNE: Back in November 2008, as Lieutenant-Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit walked into a Nashik court to face trial for his alleged role in the bombing of a Malegaon mosque, Hindutva activists showered the rogue military officer with rose petals. Last week's bombing of the German Bakery in Pune has brought the ugly story of Abhinav Bharat - the Hindutva terrorist group Purohit helped found - back from the obscurity to which it was consigned by the Mumbai carnage, which took place just days after the trial in Nashik began. In private, Hindus sympathetic to the ultra-right have been saying the bombings demonstrate the moral legitimacy of Purohit and his Hindutva terror project. Even as the police detained more than two dozen young Muslim men for questioning, some community leaders have been arguing that the bakery attack could just have easily been carried out by a Hindutva group. Part of the reason for the controversy is that key suspects involved in Abhinav Bharat's terror campaign have never been held. Jatin Chatterjee - better known by his alias Swami Asimanand - is thought to be hiding out in Gujarat's Adivasi tracts, where he runs a Hindu proselytisation organisation. Ramnarayan Kalsangra, Abhinav Bharat's key bomb-maker, is also a fugitive. Founded in the summer of 2006, Abhinav Bharat was set up as an educational trust with Himani Savarkar - daughter of Gopal Godse, brother of Mahatma Gandhi's assassin - as its chairperson. But, documents filed by Maharashtra prosecutors show, members of the group were soon involved in discussing armed activity. In June 2007, Purohit allegedly suggested that the time had come to target Muslims through terrorist attacks - a plea others in Abhinav Bharat rejected. But, the evidence gathered by the police suggests, many within the group were determined to press ahead. At a meeting in April 2008, key suspects including Madhya Pradesh-based Hindutva activist Pragnya Singh Thakur and Jammu cleric Sudhakar Dwivedi, also known as Amritananda Dev Tirtha, met Purohit to hammer out the Malegaon plot. Explosives were later procured by Purohit, and handed over to Kalsangra in early August 2008. Abhinav Bharat's long-term aims, though, went far beyond targeting Muslims: its members wanted to overthrow the Indian state and replace it with a totalitarian, theocratic order. A draft constitution prepared by Abhinav Bharat spoke of a single-party system, presided over by a leader who "shall be followed at all levels without questioning the authority." It called for the creation of an "academy of indoctrinization [sic.]." The concluding comment was stark: "People whose ideas are detrimental to Hindu Rashtra should be killed." Purohit's plans to bring about a Hindutva state were often fantastical. He claimed, the prosecutors say, to have secured an appointment with Nepal's King Gyanendra in 2006 and 2007 to press for his support for the planned Hindutva revolution. Nepal, he went on, was willing to train Abhinav Bharat's cadre, and supply it with assault rifles. Israel's government, he said, had agreed to grant members of the group military support and, if needed, political asylum. Many believe that Abhinav Bharat carried out many attacks earlier attributed to jihadist groups - notable among them, the bombing of the Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad in May 2007, and a subsequent attack on the famous shrine at Ajmer. Despite persistent questioning of Abhinav Bharat cadre, though, the investigators have not been able to link the group to the attacks. Matters are complicated by the fact that some of the operations attributed to Abhinav Bharat may not have had much to do with the group - even though its leading luminaries claimed responsibility for the attacks. For example, Purohit allegedly claimed to confidants that the attack was carried out by the Dewas-based Hindutva terrorist Sunil Joshi, who was murdered in December 2007. But the United States Treasury Department later imposed sanctions on Lashkar-e-Taiba activist Arif Kasmani - a Karachi-based jihadist with close links to the Taliban and al-Qaeda - for financing the attack. In January this year, Pakistan's Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik went further, admitting that "there were some Pakistan-based Islamists who had been hired to carry out the Samjhauta Express attack." Judging by recent Hindutva terror attacks, like last year's bombings in Goa, it is unclear if they still have the capabilities to mount a sophisticated attack of the kind seen in Pune. Few investigators believe that the organisations - or other Hindutva cells - mounted the operation. "Still", says one Maharashtra police official involved in investigating both Hindutva and jihadist attacks, "you can't help wondering - what if?" Signs are the investigation into the bombing of the German Bakery will take time. All that investigators have by way of suspects are three men recorded holding brief meetings before the blast by a poor-quality closed-circuit television camera. From the videotape, it is unclear if the men had anything to do with the attack. The longer the investigation takes, the more time conspiracy theories and speculation will have to proliferate - likely deepening the communal fissures the bombing is already opening up. http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/19/stories/2010021961571000.htm _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4881 (20100219) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aliens at dataone.in Sat Feb 20 23:29:24 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:29:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 6.6 / 5.0] COMMON MAN'S CONCERN: PRISE RISE Message-ID: <000001cab256$6ff047b0$4fd0d710$@in> During my... interactions with the Central Government, I raised two very important aspects ... Price Rise and Internal Security. I personally and very strongly feel these two should be on top in any Central Government's priority as it has an impact on a common man's life. So I thought today I will share my views with you through this blog... NARENDRA MODI http://www.narendramodi.in/speeches_textfile/speeches_textfile_detail/86 Dear Sir, Hon'ble Prime Minister of India Dr Manmohan Singh Ji, Union Minister of Agriculture, Consumer Affairs, Food & Public Distribution Shri Sharad Pawar Ji, my colleague Chief Ministers, Ministers for Food & Civil Supplies from all our States and Union Territories, and senior officers of the Central and State Governments, ladies and gentlemen; I am thankful to the Government of India for convening this meeting of Chief Ministers to discuss the issue of increase in the prices of essential commodities and to review the steps taken by the Central Government as well as the measures taken at the States' level. Quite a few of Government of India's policies in food and public distribution sector are implemented through State Governments. Since India is a big and diverse country, it would be desirable if Central Government takes the views and opinions of State Governments while evolving measures, both in short, medium or long term, to address issues like food security and price rise. Since last few years, we have observed a pattern in the price rise. First, we saw rapid increase in the prices of cement, which went up from Rs. 3300 per MT in 2005-06 to Rs. 4300 in 2008-09. Likewise, steel prices increased from Rs. 26000 per MT in 2005-06 to more than Rs. 46000 per MT in 2008-09. Despite severe global financial meltdown in mid 2008 and recessionary conditions around the world, prices of essential commodities in India have been rising. Sir, I will like to emphasize the fact that the current food price inflation as measured and announced by the Government of India is running in to two digits consistently. Recently, food price inflation has touched close to 20%. The food price inflation shown by the wholesale price index is not the correct measurement of the price situation faced by a consumer as he pays much higher price than the wholesaler does. Though the food grain production in 2008-09 was higher (233.88 million tonnes) than the previous year (230.78 million tonnes), prices of food grains have risen by 40% to 60% over last one year period. For instance, retail price of wheat (common) has increased from Rs. 12 to Rs. 16 per Kg while retails price of rice (common) has gone up from Rs 14 to Rs 18 per Kg. As we all know, coarse grains like Bajri, Jowar and Maize are staple food of poor families. Surprisingly, prices of these coarse grains have also increased from Rs 9 to Rs 13 per Kg in last one year alone. There has been phenomenal rise in the pulse prices by at least 100% or more. Over last one year sugar, prices have increased from Rs 16 to more than Rs 40 per Kg. Now there is a panic amongst consumers as the price of essential commodities, one after another, has been rising unabated. Previously mentioned, situation has been worsening since last few months. Obviously, steps initiated by the Government have proved to be inadequate and it would have been better if such a meeting were convened much earlier. Before coming to the agenda for this meeting, I have a few general initial comments to make. I am surprised to learn that Government of India has attributed price rise due to ‘adverse' weather and climate changes; ‘cost push' factors like increase in crude oil prices, diversion of food grains for fuel, hardening of international prices of food commodities, hike in Minimum Support Price etc. Is poor ‘monsoon' a major factor behind such steep rise in the prices of essential commodities? I do not subscribe to this explanation by Government of India. There have been more adverse climatic conditions for 3 consecutive years in this decade during 2000, 2001 and 2002 which had equally adverse affect on agriculture production with a negative growth rate of 6.3% in 2000-01 and 15.6% in 2002-03. Yet the food inflation was contained within 5% through better supply side management. However, there was a spike in crude oil prices during the year 2008, but as the global financial crisis had set in, prices of crude oil had cooled down quickly. Therefore, it would be far-fetched to attribute rise in prices of essential commodities to the high crude oil prices. In fact, essential commodities prices have been rising since the beginning of 2008 and until date. Food crops might be being used for bio fuel production in Brazil and USA but there has been negligible diversion of food crops for bio fuels in India. Therefore, this is hardly a reason for price rise. Hike in Minimum Support Prices of various crops has been cited as one of the reasons for price rise. If the rise in Minimum Support Price of paddy has been 16% and about 50% in the Statutory Minimum Price of Sugar cane during 2009-10, we are unable to appreciate the economic logic behind 40% to 60% rise in prices of food grains and more than 150% rise in the prices of sugar. Does it mean that prices have been rising due to hoarding? I have carefully gone through the data published in the agenda item relating to the action taken by the state governments under the provision of the Essential Commodities Act and the Prevention of Black Marketing and Maintenance of Supplies of EC Act. Of 147 cases of detention against black marketers during 2009, 145 cases have been reported by only three states of Tamilnadu, Gujarat and Orissa. Further, we observe that majority of the raids and inspections (93%) under the Essential Commodities Act have been taken by state government of National Democratic Alliance ruled states who are, perhaps, more concerned and serious about the issue of price rise. Coming to the Agenda, I would like to mention the following details. I. Enhancing Production of Food Crops: It is easier said that deficiency in rainfall has resulted in the price rise of essential commodities. However, I will draw the attention of this August House that as per the report of the Planning Commission, 10% of food grains get wasted every year. These are preventable post harvest losses of food grains estimated about 20 million tons annually. Similarly, about 30% of farm produce is stored under open conditions leading to wastage and distress sale. I ask, if the Government of India is really concerned that such food grains getting rotted and wasted could have been provided to the poor and needy people of this country? Has the Ministry of Finance taken any initiatives for development of agriculture infrastructure on a large scale and allocated funds for any such programme? It is the need of the hour that Government of India should adopt an integrated and holistic approach for preventing post harvest losses of farm production. Farmers should be provided inputs such as seeds and fertilizers at reasonable prices, while infrastructure like warehousing and cold storage should be set up to store and preserve the farm produce. Adequate arrangement for irrigating the fields and an appropriate system for supply of food grains to the doorsteps of poor and needy people should devised. Unfortunately, Government system is so fragmented that it cannot take a coordinated approach for planning such activities and devising appropriate schemes. Gujarat is a State, which has devised such a coordinated approach for improving the agriculture, and it has therefore transformed itself from a semi-arid region to one achieving very high growth rate of agriculture production. Gujarat took major initiatives for conserving water and making its most efficient use through drip irrigation and sprinkler irrigation. Gujarat Government's efforts during the last four years have helped in creating lakhs of water harvesting structures such as check dams, bori-bunds and farm ponds. Coupled with this, Gujarat took initiative for transfer of knowledge from lab-to-land and conducted mass programme for mobilization of farmers such as “Krishi Mahotsav” which has substantially improved extension, delivery and convergence of various schemes of the Government. Gujarat has taken an integrated approach to improve farm income by focusing on the convergence of farming, animal husbandry and agro-forestry. Consequently, growth of agriculture in Gujarat has been more than 9% per annum for last several years, resulting in the rise in the value of agriculture production from Rs.13, 659 Crs in 2000-01 to Rs.49, 036 Crs in 2007-08. Recently, Hon'ble Prime Minister in one of the speeches has said that States are not doing enough for improving the agriculture. Respected Prime Minister ji, I request you not to belittle the farming community as a unit within the boundaries of the States. As a matter of fact, farmers produce food grains to meet the food security need of the entire country. Farmers in Gujarat, to meet the growing needs of food grains have accepted Hon'ble Prime Minister suggestion to divert the farm land producing cash crops like ‘jeera' and ‘souff' crops for production of wheat. Therefore, I request Hon'ble Prime Minister to say a few words, which will encourage our farmers to work hard for meeting the food security needs of this country. II. Distribution of Imported Pulses at Subsidised rates through public distribution system Of all these commodities, the pulses crisis is specific to India. A shortage of pulse can have devastating long term effects on our national nutritional standards and life style and is becoming a silent emergency. Indians will suffer the most if the country does not find a way out of the pulses crisis, because other societies do not depend as much on pod-bearing plants for proteins. Why did pulses not follow the pattern of wheat, rice and the green revolution? Pulses in India are traditionally considered a residual crop, only suited for growth under rain-fed conditions when one cannot grow wheat or rice. The green revolution saw the country taking big strides in increasing yields of rice and wheat. Along with this, the government's procurement policy and strategy helped in the promotion of these cereals. There have been no great technology breakthroughs in pulses. Equally, no aggressive plan, commensurate with the crisis, is in place for pulses. Many states in our country have a large number of people who are vegetarian. As far as Gujarat is concerned, a critical factor, which needs to be kept in mind, is that most of the population in Gujarat is vegetarian in terms of food habit and the only source of protein for large sections of the population is through pulses only. Considering the increasing open market price of pulses mere subsidy of Rs.10/- per kg on all the pulses uniformly is not enough and I urge the Government of India to supply pulses at reasonable and fixed rates. Further, considering that there would be continuing deficit in domestic pulse production, in all likelihood, pulse prices may remain high unless there is fall in the international prices. Since high market prices of pulses are affecting all sections of the population, a supply level of at least 1 kg per card per month of toor or moong needs to be given though the public distribution system to all categories of card holders in Gujarat and it should be a regular commodity in the food basket of the poor supplied through public distribution system. I demand that during the course of today's deliberations Government of India should announce the quantum and price of pulses that would be provided through public distribution system outlets. III. Pubic Distribution System (PDS) related issues (Targeted PDS and Poverty Estimates): At present, the Government of India makes allocations of wheat, rice, coarse grains and sugar because of Planning Commission's poverty estimates of 1993-94 for the total population of Antyodaya and Below Poverty Line card holders of 21.20 lakh families in Gujarat. There is a substantial divergence in the poverty estimates of the Planning commission for 2004-05 (18.56 lakh families in Gujarat) vis-a-vis the poverty estimates of approximately 34.41 lakh families recommended in the recently submitted report of Shri Tendulkar Committee to the Planning Commission in November 2009. Incidentally, as per the State Government identification the total card holders under Antyoday and below poverty line category is 34 lakhs which is in line with the estimates of poverty made in the Tendulkar Committee report. UPA government in its last general election manifesto has stated that all poor families would be entitled by law to 25 Kgs of rice or wheat per month at Rs. 3 per Kg. Instead of taking an early decision with regard to the recommendations of Tendulkar committee, Government of India is insisting on Planning Commission's estimates of poverty for 2004-05, which is on the lower side and thereby trying to reduce its commitment to supply food grains to poor families. I ask whether Government of India is serious about Right to Food law and food security of the poor. The Government of Gujarat demands that the Central Government's allocation of all the essential commodities to Antyoday and below poverty line card holders should be made to the State Government as per card population worked out by the State Government i.e. 34 lakh cards. I suggest that as far as food security is concerned, while allocating essential commodities, Government of India should take into consideration below poverty line cards with the States. However, it should also be ensured that such allocated commodities do not go across the borders of the country. Recently, Government of India has announced that additional 10 Kg of wheat and 10 kg of rice will be made available to all card holders (Antyoday, below and above poverty line) through public distribution system at FCI's issue price of Rs. 10.80 Per Kg for wheat and Rs. 15.37 per Kg for rice. Currently, Gujarat government is providing wheat to poor families at Rs. 2 per Kg and rice at Rs. 3 per Kg. and it incurs substantial expenditure of Rs.100 Crs per annum in subsidizing the same. Now, the situation has been created that will further hurt poor as they will be asked to pay higher prices for aforesaid additional quantity of food grains than what they pay at present. I do not understand how UPA, who has promised food grains to poor families at the rate of Rs.3 per Kg. in the election manifesto, can announce such a high price, which makes life of poor more miserable? As a matter of fact, such additional food grains to the poor families should have been priced at rates not more than the rates at which Government of India provides food grains for below poverty line families in the State. IV. Streamlining Targeted public distribution system: Government of Gujarat – Initiative/action: In Gujarat, across the length and breadth of the state from coastal areas in the west to hilly tribal areas in the east we have a well laid out network of 16,491 fair price shops; 22,951 Kerosene dealers and 192 Godown Centres having 2.19 lakh MT storage capacity to serve the needs of 8.15 lakh Antyoday, 25.68 lakh Below Poverty Line and 89.35 lakh Above Poverty Line ration cards, totaling 123 lakh card holders. Further, we have started Food Fortification Programme. During last two years under Antyodaya Anna Yojana, Government of Gujarat is giving fortified Atta with Iron and Folic Acid instead of wheat. From March, 2010, all Below Poverty Line card holders along with Antyoday card holders would be supplied fortified Atta with Iron, Folic Acid and defatted Soya flour to provide protein and minerals with additional allocation of about Rs. 230 Crs per annum from the state budget. The benefits due to food fortification programme are: i)Food fortification helps to reduce malnutrition in general, women, and young children in particular. ii)Distribution of fortified atta in lieu of wheat reduces leakage of subsidized food grains in the open market. As far as the strengthening of public distribution system is concerned, the State Government has taken the following steps. a)Model fair price shop: This is an innovative initiative of the Government of Gujarat to transform Fair Price Shop into a Village Shopping Mall providing non PDS items along side PDS items including soft drinks, toiletries, confectionaries, mobile phone, SIM cards and recharge facilities etc. This scheme has been devised with an objective to make fair price shop more viable. Under this scheme, fair price shop operator is encouraged to convert his routine fair price shop into Model fair price shop while State Civil Supply Corporation facilitates fair price shop owners to avail loan facilities from nationalized banks. If fair price shop operator gets the loan of Rs.1 lac, an amount of Rs.15, the Government as subsidy pays 000. This Model fair price shop scheme concept has improved the viability of the fair price shop operators and thus the public distribution system as a whole. The risk aversion of the fair price shop owners has come down and rural beneficiaries can get the essential commodities and other items at local place at satisfactory and reasonable rates. b)Public distribution system Computerization: State Government is in the process of launching a pilot project for computerization of the public distribution system operations using E Gram facilities in the villages/ cyber café in towns. This pilot project will integrate the operation of fair price shop, Civil Supply Godowns, Taluka Supply office and the card holders. We hope to minimize diversion and leakages while improving operational efficiencies. However, it is our view that as the computerization of the public distribution system will result in high levels of saving of subsidy, the major beneficiary of this would be the Government of India who should create a funding mechanism for such public distribution system computerization projects in states. As far as Gujarat is concerned, digitization of all the ration cards is more or less completed and application development is underway. c)During the drive carried out since April 2008 onwards and until December 2009, 10.01 lakhs bogus ration cards have been detected and cancelled. For purpose 100% card holders at fair price shops are checked at the time of distribution of PDS commodities through verification with valid photo identity cards like EPIC cards, driving license, Government issued Identity cards etc. d)Continuous and regular inspections are carried out at all the levels. e)Vigilance Committees, including Panchayati Raj representatives, are also set up as per the guidelines of the Government of India at village; taluka and districts levels and meetings of these committees are held regularly. f)With an objective to make Village Vigilance Committees (VVCs) pro-active, a training programme is being organized during March-2010, for the members of VVCs using satellite communication facilities at Bhaskaracharya Institute for Space Applications and Geo-informatics (BISAG). g) Government of Gujarat has started distribution of 1 Kg. Iodised Salt per card @ Rs. 1/Kg. to the antyodaya Anna yojana and below poverty line beneficiaries. h)In Gujarat, door step delivery of kerosene to fair price shop is ongoing and the scheme is under active consideration for other commodities. V. Sugar: The current crisis of sugar availability is largely due to lack of good governance and political will to combat the crisis quickly. In the 3 years from 2006 to 2008, over 9.5 million tons of sugars were exported. The average price realization of these exports of raw sugar in the period after April 2007 was about Rs 11 per Kg. Government did not revise the Statutory Minimum Price for 2008-09 and kept it at the same level as the previous year even while the support price for food grains was raised and hence farmers cut back on acreage of cane resulting in a severe fall in sugar production. Sugarcane production did not recover even in 2009-10 with acreage remaining below 2007 levels. The government has been importing sugar for the last two years at price higher than the unit price of the earlier exports. Unfortunately, export was made when prices were low and imports have been made when the prices were high in the international market. It is pertinent to note that Navsari Agriculture University undertook an experiment for sugarcane cultivation through micro irrigation. In this experiment, it was observed that sugarcane production increased by 15 to 22% while there was up to 40% saving in irrigation water and 50% saving in the use of fertilizer through fertigation. On the supply side of sugar, we understand that more than 7 lakh MT of imported raw sugar belonging to private sugar factories is lying at Mundra & Kandla ports. Still the prices are rising and consumers are being made to pay ever increasing prices for sugar. On its part, Government of Gujarat has exempted all kind of sugar imported or otherwise, from VAT. In this entire scenario, we are unable to understand as to why the Government of India should feel and act in a helpless manner. Only very recently, the option to explore processing of imported raw sugar of private sugar mills through sugar mills of other States in the country has been taken up by Government of India. Currently, the sugarcane crushing season is in progress in the State and it will last uptil April –May 2010. Sugar mills in Gujarat have adequate quantity of sugarcane for crushing. Still four sugar mills in Gujarat have expressed their willingness to process imported raw sugar to the extent of 35000 MT. I suggest that mechanism for processing of such imported raw sugar belonging to private sugar mills should be finalized quickly through consultation with all concerned parties. Currently, government provides sugar through public distribution system to Antyodaya and below poverty line families. However, in view of high prices of sugar, it would be desirable to provide some relief to above poverty line card holders also by providing additional quantity under levy sugar scheme. Thus for the universal coverage through Targeted public distribution system, additional annual sugar requirement of the State at the rate of 1 kg per above poverty line card works out to around 1.08 lakh MT. I demand that Government of India should provide additional sugar of 1.08 MT to Gujarat. VI. Edible oil: The Government of Gujarat distributes refined, bleached and deodorized Palmolein oil to Antyodaya Anna yojana and below poverty line card holders during festive season at subsidized rates every year irrespective of the scheme of Government of India. During 2008-09, Government of Gujarat procured 6000 MT of refined, bleached and deodorized palmolein oil and started distribution in June-08 to the below poverty line and Antyodaya Anna yojana card holders at subsidized rates without any subsidy given by Government of India. Further, during 2008-09 additional quantity of 14,000 M.T. of refined, bleached and deodorized palmolein oil was purchased under Government of India's scheme from the Central PSU designated for the State Government. The experience of the State Government while purchasing subsidized oil from the Central PSU was not satisfactory. In spite of the clear communication from Government of Gujarat, Central PSU imported the entire quantity equivalent to 4 months of allotment by Government of India in one go. If Central PSU had contracted for imports in phased manner, the advantage of declining prices of refined, bleached and deodorized Palmolien Oil in international markets would have accrued to the State. In the process, the landed cost in 1 litre pouch was higher to the State Government by Rs.15 per kg. as compared to other States to whom (Refined, bleached and deodorized) refined, bleached and deodorized Palmolein oil was supplied by other Central PSUs. As a result, the State Government had to further subsidize and distribute the 14000 M.T. of refined, bleached and deodorized palmolein by giving away further subsidy of Rs. 24 crores from the State Budget. During the current year also, the State Government has already procured 6000 M.T. of refined, bleached and deodorized palmolein oil and this oil has been distributed at Rs.32 per litre to Antyodaya Anna yojana and below poverty line card holders during August and September 2009. The State Government desires to purchase about 3,000 M.T. of refined, bleached and deodorized palmolien oil per month under the extended subsidy scheme of Government of India. However, considering the experience of last year, State Government demands that instead of entrusting the import through a Central PSU, the designated State Government agency be allowed to import refined, bleached and deodorized palmolein oil directly from the international market and supply to the card holders in one litre pouch at a price after adjusting for the Rs 15 per kg subsidy of the Govt of India. The State Government is willing to give all the authentication / certification of the quantity imported by the State Government agency under the scheme and distribution thereof to the targeted beneficiaries. The extended scheme of the Govt of India may accordingly be modified to include imports through agencies designated by the State Government. VII. Imposition and implementation of stock holding limits in respect of pulses, edible oils, edible oil seeds, rice, paddy and sugar Government of Gujarat has always been conscious about maintaining supply of essential commodities by implementing provisions of the law and various orders under the Essential Commodities Act. In this regard, I may like to share following facts: (a) Steps taken by State Government concerning Pulses. •Since 06.08.2007, State Government has enforced stock limit restriction in respect of Pulses vide Gujarat Pulses (Storage Control) Order, 2007. •Stock limits with respect of wholesalers and retailers of pulses are as under Wholesalers ... 1000 Quintal Retailers ... 50 Quintal In view of Pulses control order, state Government has carried out 8965 inspections and 17,277 Qtl. of pulses amounting Rs.6.9 Crs have been seized. (b) Steps taken by State Government with regards to Sugar. •Since 20.06.09, State Government has enforced Licensing under State Control Order – Gujarat Essential Articles (Licensing, Control and Stock Declaration) Order , 1981. •Stock holding and turn over limits have been fixed under "Gujarat Sugar Stock holding and Turn over limits (on recognized dealers) Order, 2009. After the Sugar stock holding and control order came in to force in June 2009, state Government has carried out 154 inspections and 28095 Qtls of sugar amounting Rs.10 Crs have been seized. (VII) Enforcement under the provision of EC Act and PBM Act. Steps taken to prevent hoardings of the essential commodities: 1.During year 2009, total 25612 inspections were carried out throughout the State. Essential commodities worth of Rs. 25.38 crores have been seized and Rs. 5.15 crores has been confiscated. 259 licenses have been suspended and 88 cancelled during the year. Total 82 police case has been registered against the dealers of the essential commodities. 2.During year 2009-10 total 46 persons have been detained under Prevention of Black Marketing of Essential commodities Act. (a) Suggestions for strengthening Prevention of Black-marketing and Maintenance of Supplies of Essential Commodities Act, 1980 i) The period of detention should be increased from 6 months to 12 months under Section 13 of P.B.M. Act, 1980 ii ) The period of approval of detention order by State Government should be increased from 12 days to 15 days under sub-section 3 of Section 3 of P.B.M. Act, 1980. (b ) Suggestions for strengthening Essential Commodities Act, 1955. (i) Since there is delay in the disposal of cases filed under EC Act, Government of India should consider setting up of Special Courts for this purpose. (ii) The Appellate powers under 6 (c) under Essential Commodities Act, 1955 has been given to the Judicial Authority since 1998 which was previously with the State Government. This should be restored to the State Government for speedy disposal of the cases. (IX) Other Suggestions: (a) Ensuring Food Security: The current situation of helplessness that the Government of India finds itself in should prompt some soul searching among those who advocate that market mechanisms and free trade across borders will take care of India's food security. It is perhaps time to rekindle the debate on the need for near self sufficiency in essential foods and investment in food storage infrastructure. For this purpose, in addition to giving various subsidies on fertilizers, seeds, electricity and waiver of interest on farming loans to farmers, we may think of fixing minimum support prices for five years so that farmers are assured of minimum return on farm yields for longer period and are encouraged to produce crops such as oilseeds and pulses where India has become a net importer. (b) Wasteland development for increasing agriculture production: Couple of years ago, Government of India had set up a committee headed by me to recommend measures for utilization of waste lands in the country. Our committee has already submitted its report to the Government of India. So far I have not heard about any action taken on the recommendations of this Committee. I will suggest Government of India should undertake development of large tracts of waste lands in the Private Public Partnership mode. Such waste lands, thus brought under cultivation will not only help in improving the agriculture production but also provide large scale employment to the rural people. I will strongly recommend that Government of India should consider this suggestion and devise an appropriate scheme for development of waste lands in the country. I will also like to mention that Gujarat is the first State of the country to get 21 rivers into a grid and start grid-cum-canal network successfully to become a role model for national approach for interlinking of rivers. It is high time that Government of India should take lead in implementing such an initiative across this country. (c) Likewise Reserve Bank of India which regulates money supply through regular adjustments in the Cash Reserve Ratio (CRR), Statutory Liquidity Ratio (SLR), Repo and Reverse Repo Rates etc., Government of India should develop a system to constantly monitor the availability and prices of essential commodities in an appropriate price band and in the event of such price band being exceeded, Government of India should start maintaining minimum stocks of such essential commodities for its release through public distribution system at affordable prices. This will go a long way in improving Government's effectiveness, both in terms of prices and timing for commodity price stabilization and market intervention. Further, Government of India must create buffer stock of sugar and pulses. In addition, the concession to importers benefited the importers only and not the public. There should be some inbuilt mechanism in the policy that Government concession actually percolates to the public. (e) During shortage of particular commodity, State Government is given power to import essential commodities directly from the international market and central subsidy be paid to the State Governments on such imports. (At present only designated central PSUs are only allowed to import and distribute commodities across the country at subsidized rates). (f) Government of India expects States to carry out procurement of food grains but should there be discrimination in the commission rates payable to private agencies and agencies in the cooperative sector? During the Rabi Marketing Season 09-10, the commission rate finally approved by the Govt of India to the intermediate cooperative societies was only 1%. In contrast, the adatiyas in some other states were allowed a commission of 2.5%. It is very difficult to understand how cooperative agencies, which are the main agency in Gujarat for such activities, can be allowed a lower rate of commission as compared to private traders. I hope the Govt of India will correct the anomaly urgently otherwise, this will have an adverse impact on further procurement operations in Gujarat. Jai Hind, Jai Bharat! From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Feb 20 23:54:40 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:54:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Marxism Exposed: How Labour And The Tories Are Destroying Britain In-Reply-To: <39965BE4-F975-4138-B4E8-19F438BA0C03@sarai.net> References: <6b79f1a71002200036r71ab7e32j9830a191ab0e6b7b@mail.gmail.com> <39965BE4-F975-4138-B4E8-19F438BA0C03@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002201024k33fd6d12j6ed69e25ca7334e3@mail.gmail.com> Dear All , I am delighted ....as well. I had thought that Shuddha may well use some of ethics , but he chose not to. I have shared an article on the forum and no where have i mentioned that I either "Endrose" it or "Agree" with what has been written. I havent even mentioned that i do not disagree with it either. This was an article which i though worth sharing and may be educative for some. If by going by same standards , I wonder why Shuddha had not not blamed Javed for believing in Hindus behind Pune blast , as Javed had also shared an article. I can imagine Shuddha getting hurt when a dead ideology gets exposed , or when an appeased one is not appeased again. I do not wish to have a debate on right or wrong with a person who maintain double standards Pawan. On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All, > I am delighted by Pawan Durani's endorsement and quotation from a website - >  www.greenarrow.co.uk -  that declares its mission to be to - >  "...unoffiically support the British National Party in their fight to > secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North > Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia." > The British National Party, as is well known (though perhaps not to Mr. > Durani) is the far right wing fascist party that wants a 'whites only' > United Kingdom. Had Pawan Durani happened to be a hard working Asian Migrant > in Britain, then, he would know that the BNP are the ones who control the > thugs that subject all asians and all people of colour in Britain to racist > abuse, and indeed violent attacks. To the BNP's not very nuanced form of > politics, Mr. Durani's protestations, were he a South Asian immigrant > subjected to their attacks, that maybe he hates muslims as much as they do, > would not hold much water. For the BNP's cadre, even Mr. Durani, because he > is a South Asian of colour, would only be a "Paki". The BNP, the Shiv Sena > and needless to say, the Lashkar-e-Toiba, share the same view about those > who happen not to agree with them, or to pollute their understanding of > 'pure' homelands. It is indeed wonderful to see Mr. Durani in such august > company. I have always maintained that someday the Hindutva hard right will > understand that their natural allies are the KKK and Islamist > fundamentalists. Perhaps Mr. Durani is a beacon of this dawning > understanding. > What is even more interesting is that Mr. Durani has offered for our perusal > a long tract that along with suggesting that the Labour and the Conservative > Parties in the UK are currently controlled by Marxists (how I wish this were > true) also suggests that Marx and Engels were racist holocaust promoters > (Note that the BNP's self confessed racism and its known, persistent, > flirtation with holocaust deniers and neo-nazis in Europe is left > uncommented on). > Marx and Engels, in their necessary polemics against the deeply anti-semitic > and reactionary elements within Slav nationalism did perhaps use some > regrettable and sweeping expressions. As someone sympathetic to the vision > and politics of Karl Marx, I have no hesitation in critquing them, and in > seeing within them traces of the provincial markers of Marx and Engels' own > intellectual formations. Marx and Engels are not and were not gods who could > do no wrong. They were fallible and interesting human beings with their own > prejudices and quirks, (many of which changed during their lifetimes). > We have to ask, however, whether Marx and Engels remained wedded to these > sentiments throughout their lives. Both became champions of the liberty of > colonially subjugated peoples, in India and Ireland, for instance, (even > though Marx might have, contrary to his own sympathies, condemned Indian > societies to the 'refuse of history' ) without falling prey to Nationalism, > and Marx, more so than Engels was able to distance himself from some of his > more extreme cultural prejudices, prejudices, which were indeed commonplace > in the milieu in which they found themselves, in Victorian Britain and > nineteenth century Europe. >  But to put their remarks in proper context, what Marx, and more > specifically Engels meant by the deployment of the 'Ethnic Trash', > (volkerabfall) term - was that the matter of 'national' interest and the > 'nationality question' in Europe, especially as it played out in Eastern > Europe was a divisive and reactionary brand of politics that sought to > divide European Workers on the basis of their racial and ethnic origins. > Slav Nationalists were at the foreground of the anti-semitic pogroms that > swept through Eastern Europe in the nineteenth century, and it was perhaps > in this context that Marx and Engels made their pronouncements. Bakunin, > Marx's adversary in the First International, was able to combine his > laudable anarchism, with an unfortunately venomous anti-semitic streak, and > the polemics against Bakunin, do give Marx and Engels an unfortunate and > shrill edge. > Having said this, it is equally important to recognize, that Marx himself > came to recognize the slav traditions of the rural peasant commune in Russia > as providing perhaps a means to bypass Capitalism on the way to a Communist > future. (See his draft of a letter to Vera Zasulich at - >  http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1881/03/zasulich1.htm - ). While > Marx's estimation of the Slav traditions of peasant communism may have been > an 'over-estimation' at least they demonstrate that he held the traditions > of the peoples he had himself once thought to have been 'refuse of history' > (which would be the more accuate gloss of terms like Volkerabfall) in high > regard. > Mr. Durani's anti-marx prejudice seems to have been acquired under some > special circumstances, because he swings from one extreme to another, in > exhibiting it. Right now, he has tried, with the help of the fascist BNP's > unofficial supporters, that Marx was racist. Not so long ago, however, he > had himself (perhaps unwittingly) become the vehicle for the transmission of > the classic anti-semitiic (anti-Jewish) slur against Karl Marx. > Not many may remember, but I do, that on the 15th of November, 2008, Mr. > Durani, apropos of Karl Marx, had written, in this very list, the following > gem. > "We do not live inside some mind like that of Karl Marx and the occultist > elite who funded him (Satanic Rothschild Dynasty ). We live in a real > world." > [ See - > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-November/016614.html ] > In response to that slur, I had composed a brief (and alas, unsent) riposte > to Mr. Durani, which I now offer for all your entertainment.  Please enjoy, > but while doing so, remember how, Pawan Durani can suddenly be a bleeding > heart liberal (without any irony) in the company of the racist BNP one day, > and a sly anti-semite on another occasion. I marvel at his versatility and > his flexibility. Perhaps it comes from not having to be bothered by the > inconvenience of an ethical spine. > best > Shuddha > > "I have heard many really low down and colourful anti-semitic jibes in my > life. But the one about Karl Marx being funded by the 'satanic' Rothschild > family takes the cake. I am absolutely delighted that Pawan Durani has > offered us this rich serving of tripe. The 'frisson' of this rumour of > course has to do with the fact that both Karl Marx and the Rothschilds were > Jewish by birth. I am familiar with this story, as I am and have been a keen > observer of right wing esoterica both on the internet and beyond it, and the > 'Marx-Rothschild-Jewish-Communist' Plot to take over the universe has a long > and distinguished pedigree on the outer fringes of the loony right. > This rumour circulates widely amongst virulntly anti-semitic Christian > Evangelical websites (whom Pawan Durani may or many not be so comfortable > with,as they are not known for being nice to Hindus, and also amongst the > higher echelons of the followers of Mahmoud Ahmedinijad, though here it is >  generally found in Farsi), and indeed, is to be found in Ku Klux Klan > literature. All of is apparently based on accounts of two 'cheques' in the > British Museum which show that Marx was paid by the Rothschild to destroy > the world as we know it. Marx received some stipends from a distant relative > of his who had links with the family that founded the Phillips engineering > corporation. And of course he was supported by his friend and comrade > Friedrich Engels, whose income derived from the operations of his family > firm in Manchester. > The 'Marx-Rothschild Fuding' rumour is said to have originated in the > pre-firing squad confessions of the dissident Bolshevik Rakovsky to Stalin's > secret police, the NVKD, and was then circulated, first in Francoist circles > in Latin America and Spain, before taking a new life on the internet. This > is a wonderfully surreal world, with born again Christians, Stalinists, > occultists of a discreetly Nazi persuasion, KKKites, Ahmedinijad supporters > and anti-semites graced now by the company of none other than our very own > Pawan Durani. If the sad day of a Hindutva-Stalinist takeover of India were > ever to arrive, then I would hope that delirious repetitions of rumours > first circulated about  on the Reader List by people desparate to say > anything to escape the cold end of a pistol's nozzle do not land me in > trouble. > I had better take care, before Pawan or his zealot friends discover my > jewish great aunt Rahel's address in some remote Kolkata bylane, and having > done so, furnish an updated edition of the 'Protocol of the Elders of Zion' > to state that I (nothing other than a diluted Jew)  the ghost of those > devious Jews Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky, the current wife of Amartya Sen > (none other than Emma Rothschild, "Oh my god, they got him the nobel prize" > and everyone knows that Amartya Sen hates hindutva) are party to the > conspiracy to destroy the planet. Perhaps the details of this would include > speculations about whether or not I 'recieved' ghost money from the ghost of > Marx, sourced from the ghost of Rothschilds. > Did I hear someone say that global warming was a crypto Jewish-Marxist-plot > in league with giant lizard aliens, and that yesterday's patriotic Indian > mission to the moon, was only the first salvo in the galactic war against > global warming, which is actually produced by the swarming of anti-national > elements on the internet, which somehow produces lunar currents, which in > turn leads to global warming. > No, I didn't. > But if we are to believe Pawan Durani on Marx and the Rothschild's we might > as well prepare ourselves to believe this too. > regards, > Shuddha" > > ------ > > On 20-Feb-10, at 2:06 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Part One: Birth Of The New Man > Introduction > Something is wrong with Great Britain and Western Civilisation. Badly > wrong. Imagine, if you will, that the brave warriors who fought to > preserve Great Britain from tyranny during the Second World War have > been resurrected and allowed to visit modern day Britain to see for > themselves the fruits of their sacrifice. > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 00:00:06 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:00:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <909917EA-1D53-45E0-9DB4-19E1F4AA2894@sarai.net> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> <909917EA-1D53-45E0-9DB4-19E1F4AA2894@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002201030q1348387an4736a5799f7f53c9@mail.gmail.com> I wish some people understood poetry ..... On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Aditya, > > Are you, or the 16 year-old Sakshi, whose juvenilia you have > subjected us to, implying that in your 'padosi ke ghar' (neighbouring > house - a not so veiled reference to the neighbouring country, > Pakistan) children play with bombs? > > For the sake of our -Hindi speaking readers, the 'poem' by '16 year > old Sakshi' that Aditya Raj Kaul has now sent us - translates, > (roughly) as follows. I have read this poem very carefully. I take > very serious objection to the fact that it suggests that Pakistani > children are in some ways responsible for terrorist atrocities in > India, specificially, in Pune. > > "...In my neighbour's house > children play with bombs, > and in mine, they play with a ball > everyday, just like this, they play with pleasure > sometimes, the balls finds their way into their house > and their bombs find their way into mine > this is what happened yesterday @ Pune > they don't give us back our balls > we don't give them back their bombs > they are fortunate... > and we...." > > Seriously Aditya, get a life, at least do not stoop so low as to > imply, with this disgusting piece of innuendo, that Pakistani > children are terrorists. > > At least let us leave children alone. > > Enraged and horrified at the amoral, cynical abyss that you inhabit, > and that too at a relatively young age. > > Shuddha > > > > > > > On 20-Feb-10, at 1:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> Mr. Vij, >> >> I campaigned on roads with public, so media came out to support. I >> felt the >> brunt of this; as cases were slapped against me for protesting. >> When you >> can't argue Mr. Vij, you attack 'activists' personally on public >> forums such >> as these. >> >> My campaign however wasn't discussed in the Board meeting of some >> Multi-National Company. My campaign didn't have commercials on >> television, >> radio and newspapers. >> >> It seems you are an expert on 'selling' campaigns. Wonder how that >> happens! >> Have you shifted your profession lately? Please do explain to us list >> members in detail. >> >> Don't mix issues without thinking. It becomes cheap. >> >> As the moderators have the liberty to trash a value addition to the >> list. So >> do I have the right to counter 'trash' and 'propaganda' on this list. >> >> Dear Shuddhaji >> >> A 16 year of Sakshi sent me these lines a couple of days back - >> >> मेरे पड़ोस वाले घर में , >> बच्चे बम से खेलते है... >> >> और मेरे बच्चे यहाँ गेंद >> से... >> >> हर रोज़ युही मज़े से >> खेलते है.. >> >> अक्सर गेंद उनके घर में >> जाती है.. >> >> और उनके बम मेरे घर में >> आते है... >> >> कल भी एसा ही दिन था, @pune >> >> पडोसी गेंद लोटाते नहीं, >> >> और हम भी उनके बम लोटाते >> नहीं ... >> >> वो खुश किस्मत है ... >> >> और हम .... >> >> thanks >> >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् >> विज् >> wrote: >> >>> Shri Aditya Raj Kaulji has for some weeks now been telling the world >>> about how Aman ki Asha has to do with m-words like "media >>> market-management". Has he no sense of irony? he, the master of >>> "media >>> market-managment" campaigns of various causes? Jab tumhara campaign >>> bikta hai toh peace, kisi aur ka toh market? Kuch to sharam karon. >>> >>> On 17 February 2010 17:21, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> wrote: >>>> Dear Shri Shuddhabrata Senguptaji >>>> >>>> Namaskar >>>> >>>> I have merely forwarded a reaction from a common Indian to the >>>> recent >>>> developments of 'Aman Ki Asha' around. I can see you agitated. >>>> Wonder >>> what >>>> makes you so uncomfortable! Is it the truth of Islamic-terrorism >>>> or the >>>> engagement politics and media market-management of Peace? >>>> >>>> It hardly matters to me how a godamn 'My Name Is Khan' does at >>>> the box >>>> office. I condenm the protests against it. However, terrorism >>>> matters to >>> me >>>> and every Indian not how much money a producer makes out of made-up >>>> publicity. We don't want protection of a bloody movie; we want >>>> security >>> for >>>> citizens of this country. >>>> >>>> You have yet again displayed intolerance and abused my right to >>> participate >>>> in this so called 'Liberal' forum. I am not facing this for the >>>> first >>> time. >>>> It has become usual for me. Wonder if I calculate the wastage of >>>> time to >>> us >>>> by some of the rhetoric of far extremist, intolerant and left >>>> lunatic >>>> fringe. >>>> >>>> Have tolerance in letter and spirit. We have heard enough of your >>>> fake >>> Batla >>>> House and several other such theories. What happened to them, if >>>> I may >>> ask? >>>> >>>> Pakistan is suffering from something which it initiated decades >>>> ago. It >>> will >>>> continue to burn. I never objected to views from Pakistani >>>> public. Though >>>> Kashmir can never be on dialogue table with Pakistan. Nor can it >>>> be with >>>> terrorists who some glorify in this forum. >>>> >>>> Congrats to you and other co-founders of Sarai, which completed a >>>> decade >>>> recently. I pray for more, patience, tolerance and flow of rational >>> thought >>>> to the Sarai. >>>> >>>> And hope you hold/delete/block less/none of our e-mails from now >>>> onwards. >>>> Even that may be abuse of liberty, something you are very well >>>> versed >>> with >>>> yourself. >>>> >>>> I don't want this this to turn into a relay e-mail exchange as has >>> happened >>>> in the past. >>>> >>>> regards >>>> >>>> 2010/2/17 Shuddhabrata Sengupta >>>> >>>>> Aditya, >>>>> >>>>> I regret that you have once again abused the space of liberty on >>>>> this >>> list >>>>> by forwarding this idiotic poem, which I have wasted my time by >>>>> reading. >>>>> >>>>> I am normally not a fan of the Times of India, or the Jang Group of >>>>> Newspapers, but, I have to say, that the steady stream of >>>>> opposition >>> that >>>>> their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems to be gathering from the >>>>> usual >>>>> suspects makes me even more interested in what the 'Aman ki Asha' >>> initiative >>>>> is all about. I sincerely hope that it sets a trend, and that other >>> media >>>>> corporations and other agencies mirror it by setting up their own >>>>> initiatives for sustaining the resources of peace in South Asia, >>>>> and >>>>> especially between India and Pakistan, in these difficult times. >>>>> >>>>> Having tasted a bitter defeat after attempting their thuggery on >>>>> the 'My >>>>> Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right is now seeking a >>>>> fruitless second >>>>> wind, by riding the waves of the regrettable bomb blast that >>>>> occured in >>> the >>>>> German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to surf this wave is >>>>> pathetic. The >>>>> xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, and no amount of impotent >>>>> roaring >>> from >>>>> Matoshtree will make it walk again. >>>>> >>>>> I find the poem that you sent, strongly objectionable, because >>>>> it makes >>> no >>>>> attempt to distinguish between different kinds of opinion and >>>>> publics in >>>>> Pakistan. >>>>> >>>>> The poem says - >>>>> >>>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, >>>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For those who do not understand Hindi. These lines can be >>>>> translated as >>>>> follows - >>>>> >>>>> "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, lives were sacrificed >>>>> In their hearts, Paki monsters rejoiced" >>>>> >>>>> I am aware of the fact that time and again, whenever terrorist >>> atrocities >>>>> occur in India, a significant section of Pakistani political >>>>> society >>> condemn >>>>> acts of terrorism in no uncertain terms.  Many people in India >>>>> do the >>> same >>>>> when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To lump all Pakistanis (or >>>>> for that >>>>> matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who 'rejoice in their hearts' >>>>> when >>> loss >>>>> of life occurs, is disgusting. I find your endorsement of this >>> disgusting >>>>> sentiment shameful. >>>>> >>>>> There is a very strong body of public opinion in Pakistan that >>>>> wants >>> peace >>>>> in South Asia, and realizes that peace is the only way forward in >>> Pakistan. >>>>> They act vigilantly against war-mongers and preachers of >>>>> prejudice in >>>>> Pakistan, exactly as many of us act vigilantly against the >>>>> constituency >>> that >>>>> advocates permanent aggression here. That includes our vigilance >>>>> against >>>>> your hate filled agenda. >>>>> >>>>> Whenever an atrocity like what happened in Pune occurs, I find >>>>> that the >>>>> constituency of rabid right-wing nationalism comes crawling out >>>>> like >>> maggots >>>>> to feast on the dead. As if they were waiting for tragedy to >>>>> strike to >>> once >>>>> again find their reason for existence. >>>>> >>>>> Have none of these people any shame? Have you none at all? >>>>> >>>>> Shuddha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Irma Razdan >>>>> Date: 2010/2/17 >>>>> Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA >>>>> To: >>>>> >>>>> For my Hindi speaking followers, this is a poem that was >>>>> authored by a >>> mod >>>>> of a forum which is my frequent haunt. It is a take on the >>>>> recent 'Aman >>> ki >>>>> Asha' program by the Times of India and Jang group of Pakistan, >>>>> which is >>>>> supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace project. Newbies, please refer >>>>> to link. >>>>> >>>>> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर >>>>> सुबह अमन की आशा, >>>>> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और >>>>> दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया >>>>> तमाशा, >>>>> >>>>> पीठ में ख़ंजर भोंका >>>>> जिनने, मानवता को ही छला, >>>>> आज बोलते चले हैं वोही, >>>>> कैसी शांति की भाषा, >>>>> >>>>> ज़मीन के लालच को धर्म >>>>> का मुखौटा पहना, >>>>> जिन जल्लादों ने छीना >>>>> भारत माँ का गहना, >>>>> आज उन्ही से रखनी होगी, >>>>> हमको प्रेम की अभिलाषा >>>>> वाह रे टाइम्स ऑफ >>>>> इंडिया, क्या खूब है तेरी >>>>> आशा. >>>>> >>>>> देखो कैप्टन कालिया, >>>>> ऐसा हुआ आपका बलिदान, >>>>> आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु और क़सब >>>>> को शायद मिल जाये जीवनदान, >>>>> छब्बीस-ग्यारह दोहराने >>>>> को बेचैन हैं जिनके >>>>> जेहादी, >>>>> दोस्ती का राग सुना रहे, >>>>> वही कियानी, ज़रदारी और >>>>> गीलानी, >>>>> कौआ चले हंस की चाल, देखो >>>>> इनकी मीठी भाषा, >>>>> हमें दोस्ती का पाठ >>>>> पढ़ाएंगे, अब सूजा अहमद >>>>> पाशा. >>>>> >>>>> हमारे अपने नेताओं ने, >>>>> देश को भी नहीं बख़्शा >>>>> नपुंसक से भी कम पौरुष >>>>> जिनमें, वो करेंगे देश की >>>>> रक्षा? >>>>> बातचीत के ज़रिये ये, >>>>> मिटा देंगे सारे भेद >>>>> आधा कश्मीर खोने का, >>>>> इनको ज़रा नहीं खेद, >>>>> राष्ट्र को किया >>>>> लज्जित, दी शर्म-अल- >>>>> शेख़ में निराशा, >>>>> समझे नहीं हम किसने लिखी >>>>> आख़िर उस दस्तावेज़ की >>>>> भाषा. >>>>> कब तक जयचंदों को जनती >>>>> रहेगी हे माता! >>>>> कब तक तेरे बच्चों को >>>>> होती रहेगी हताशा, >>>>> >>>>> आतंकवाद की आग में जब जल >>>>> रहा है पाकिस्तान, >>>>> ऐसी हालत में इनके >>>>> हृदय में जागा है इंसान, >>>>> दिल्ली मुंबई अहमदाबाद >>>>> ने जब की थीं जानें >>>>> क़ुर्बान, >>>>> मन ही मन खुश होते थे यही >>>>> पाकी हैवान, >>>>> देखो भारतवासियों, रखना >>>>> इतना ध्यान, >>>>> राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ >>>>> में ही सदा देना तुम कमान, >>>>> झूठे धर्म-निरपक्षों से >>>>> रहना तुम सावधान, >>>>> वोट बैंक बनकर कभी मत >>>>> करना मतदान. >>>>> >>>>> बोस, पटेल, सावरकर ने, >>>>> जिस देश को है तराशा, >>>>> लूट ना ले उसको फिर, यह >>>>> झूठी अमन की आशा. >>>>> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर >>>>> सुबह अमन की आशा, >>>>> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और >>>>> दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया >>>>> तमाशा. >>>>> >>>>> English Transliteration: >>>>> >>>>> Aman Ki Aasha >>>>> >>>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, >>>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha, >>>>> >>>>> Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, manavta ko hi chhala, >>>>> aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi shanti ki bhaasha, >>>>> >>>>> zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta pehna, >>>>> jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka gehna, >>>>> aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki abhilaasha, >>>>> wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai teri Aasha. >>>>> >>>>> Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka balidaan, >>>>> Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad mil jaaye jeevandaan, >>>>> Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, bechain hain jinkay jehadi, >>>>> hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani >>>>> Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki meethi bhaasha, >>>>> hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab Sooja Ahmed Pasha. >>>>> >>>>> Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi baksha, >>>>> Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh karenge desh ki raksha? >>>>> baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge saare bhed, >>>>> aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara nahi khed, >>>>> Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, >>>>> samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir us dastavez ki bhasha. >>>>> Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he maata, >>>>> Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi hataasha. >>>>> >>>>> Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha hai Pakistan, >>>>> Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, jaaga hai insaan, >>>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, >>>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. >>>>> Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna dhyan, >>>>> Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada dana tum kamaan, >>>>> Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna tom saavdhaan, >>>>> vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna matdaan. >>>>> >>>>> Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko hai taraasha, >>>>> loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman ki aasha. >>>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, >>>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha. >>>>> >>>>> Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi >>>>> >>>>>  ------------------------------ >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >>>>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >>>>> Raqs Media Collective >>>>> shuddha at sarai.net >>>>> www.sarai.net >>>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Aditya Raj Kaul >>>> >>>> Freelance Writer >>>> >>>> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 00:04:23 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:04:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] It's time to open the debate on covert operations Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002201034w303466aer68cd1cae5ca13147@mail.gmail.com> http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint-ArticleDetail.aspx?ID=443 It's time to open the debate on covert operations (NEW)- Vir Sanghvi Last month an 11-member hit team dispatched by Israel’s Mossad travelled to Dubai and assassinated Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh, a Hamas military commander and number one on Israel’s list of most wanted terrorists. Al-Mabhouh was clearly an unsavoury character, one of the founders of Hamas’s military wing, an abductor and murderer of Israeli soldiers and an organizer of terrorist attacks on civilians. Few tears were shed in Israel over his death but there has been a minor uproar in England over the use of cloned British passports by the Israeli hit team. Normally, the Israelis just fake passports. But on this occasion, they cloned the real passports of Britons who have settled in Israel. The Brits say this is unacceptable. Why couldn’t Mossad have just faked the passports as usual? What’s interesting is that very little of the outrage focuses on the assassination itself. By now, the West has accepted that Israelis will track down and assassinate terrorists no matter where in the world they hide. And, in the post 9/11 era, few people seem to mind. It is widely accepted that terrorists can rarely be brought to justice and convicted by courts of law. So, an assassination often seems like the most effective option. All this has lessons for India. There are broadly, four ways of fighting terrorism. The first is that you guard every likely target. This is nearly impossible to do and no matter how many men you deploy, terrorists will slip through the cracks. The second is that you use intelligence to discover terrorist plots and then foil them. This too, is hardly a fool-proof strategy. The third is that after terrorist attacks are committed you spare no effort in going after the perpetrators so that you deter would-be terrorists. The Israelis travelled the world in the aftermath of the Munich attacks in 1972 and killed every one of the terrorist masterminds. And the fourth is covert action: you take the battle into the enemy’s camp. You infiltrate terrorist organizations, you kill terrorists before they can strike, and you dabble in the internal affairs of your opponents, financing and arming those groups that are likely to create trouble for your enemies. Pakistan has always shown a willingness to use covert operations against India. Even if you take the line that the 26/11 terrorists did not have official sanction, nobody can deny that the Pakistanis have used assassination as an element of state policy. In Kashmir, for instance, important leaders have been bumped off by the Pakistanis when they refused to follow Islamabad’s line. Equally, Islamabad has traditionally funded groups that are inimical to Delhi. Till the creation of Bangladesh, East Pakistan was used to provide arms and support to the Mizos and the Nagas. Since then, Pakistan has funded Sikh separatists, local jihadis and of course Kashmiri militants. India’s record on covert operations has been lacklustre. We have preferred to fight terrorism either by relying on intelligence or by heightening security. When it comes to retribution, we prefer to go through legal channels rather than take direct action. We will wait for the Pakistanis to prosecute Hafiz Sayeed rather than eliminate him ourselves. And while we have funded Pakistani separatists in the past, this assistance has been feeble and more or less dried up after Inder Gujral made R&AW roll up its operations in Pakistan when he was PM. It is now increasingly clear that Pakistan either cannot (the view of the doves) act against powerful terrorist groups or will not (the view of the hawks) prevent terrorists from attacking Indian targets. A similar lack of strength or willingness is reflected in its failure to effectively prosecute the likes of Hafiz Sayeed. So what is India to do? Are we to rely on increased security and better intelligence? Or are we to step up our covert operations? "Western nations do not finance terrorism. But equally, they do not consider themselves restricted by the niceties of the law." Till recently, many Indians would have been appalled by the idea of covert operations. We reject the idea of moral equivalence with Pakistan and cannot see ourselves financing militants who engage in violence. I once asked Manmohan Singh why we rejected the covert option and his answer summed up the mood in government: because of the manner in which it would brutalize the Indian state and damage our moral psyche. Indians simply do not do such things. But I am now coming around to the view that it is time to reconsider. There are two kinds of covert operations. The first is the Pakistani style, whereby jihadis travel to India and kill women and children. The other is the approach increasingly favoured by the West (and pioneered by Israel) in the aftermath of 9/11. Western nations do not finance terrorism. But equally, they do not consider themselves restricted by the niceties of the law. America has infiltrated terror groups, encourages them to fight with each other, kidnaps and whisks away important terrorists (‘rendition’) and sub-contracts the job of executing terrorists to friendly secret services. There is a strong case for us in India to follow that example. Let’s take the instance of the three terrorists who were freed in Kandahar in exchange for the passengers on IC 814. They travelled to Pakistan where they were welcomed as heroes. Should we not have pursued them and taken them out? Would this not have served as a warning to other terrorists? Similarly, we know who many of the 26/11 masterminds are and where they live. Should we wait for the Pakistanis to move against them – assuming that Pakistan is so inclined? Or should we just send a hit team? We know where Dawood Ibrahim, the man behind the Bombay blasts, lives. Should we mount a large-scale operation to eliminate him? Similarly, should we not consider doing to Pakistan what it does to us? There are many Sindhis, Mohajirs, and yes, Baluchis, who have no affection for the Punjabi elite which runs Pakistan. Should we not finance them so that they can more forcefully express their discontentment? The more trouble there is for Pakistan from within, the more distracted the government in Islamabad will be. Our answer to all these questions, so far, has been an unequivocal no. When Manmohan Singh agreed to include a reference to Baluchistan in the Sharm-el-Sheikh statement, we were appalled because the thought of any Indian involvement in Baluchistan was repugnant to us. We did not object on pragmatic grounds: why surrender the Baluchistan option when we can use it to create trouble for Pakistan? As the Poona attack demonstrates, the terrorism is not going to stop. Pakistan is going to step up its efforts to radicalize and arm Indian Muslim groups so that it can then argue that the terrorism is indigenous. Should we just sit back and wait for this to happen while placing our faith in the power of dialogue? Or should we re-think our approach to the battle against terror? I’m not sure what the answers to these questions are. But the time has come to open the debate on covert operations. From mail at shivamvij.com Sat Feb 20 13:10:06 2010 From: mail at shivamvij.com (=?UTF-8?B?U2hpdmFtIFZpaiDgpLbgpL/gpLXgpK7gpY0g4KS14KS/4KSc4KWN?=) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:10:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> Shri Aditya Raj Kaulji has for some weeks now been telling the world about how Aman ki Asha has to do with m-words like "media market-management". Has he no sense of irony? he, the master of "media market-managment" campaigns of various causes? Jab tumhara campaign bikta hai toh peace, kisi aur ka toh market? Kuch to sharam karon. On 17 February 2010 17:21, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Shri Shuddhabrata Senguptaji > > Namaskar > > I have merely forwarded a reaction from a common Indian to the recent > developments of 'Aman Ki Asha' around. I can see you agitated. Wonder what > makes you so uncomfortable! Is it the truth of Islamic-terrorism or the > engagement politics and media market-management of Peace? > > It hardly matters to me how a godamn 'My Name Is Khan' does at the box > office. I condenm the protests against it. However, terrorism matters to me > and every Indian not how much money a producer makes out of made-up > publicity. We don't want protection of a bloody movie; we want security for > citizens of this country. > > You have yet again displayed intolerance and abused my right to participate > in this so called 'Liberal' forum. I am not facing this for the first time. > It has become usual for me. Wonder if I calculate the wastage of time to us > by some of the rhetoric of far extremist, intolerant and left lunatic > fringe. > > Have tolerance in letter and spirit. We have heard enough of your fake Batla > House and several other such theories. What happened to them, if I may ask? > > Pakistan is suffering from something which it initiated decades ago. It will > continue to burn. I never objected to views from Pakistani public. Though > Kashmir can never be on dialogue table with Pakistan. Nor can it be with > terrorists who some glorify in this forum. > > Congrats to you and other co-founders of Sarai, which completed a decade > recently. I pray for more, patience, tolerance and flow of rational thought > to the Sarai. > > And hope you hold/delete/block less/none of our e-mails from now onwards. > Even that may be abuse of liberty, something you are very well versed with > yourself. > > I don't want this this to turn into a relay e-mail exchange as has happened > in the past. > > regards > > 2010/2/17 Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> Aditya, >> >> I regret that you have once again abused the space of liberty on this list >> by forwarding this idiotic poem, which I have wasted my time by reading. >> >> I am normally not a fan of the Times of India, or the Jang Group of >> Newspapers, but, I have to say, that the steady stream of opposition that >> their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems to be gathering from the usual >> suspects makes me even more interested in what the 'Aman ki Asha' initiative >> is all about. I sincerely hope that it sets a trend, and that other media >> corporations and other agencies mirror it by setting up their own >> initiatives for sustaining the resources of peace in South Asia, and >> especially between India and Pakistan, in these difficult times. >> >> Having tasted a bitter defeat after attempting their thuggery on the 'My >> Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right is now seeking a fruitless second >> wind, by riding the waves of the regrettable bomb blast that occured in the >> German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to surf this wave is pathetic. The >> xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, and no amount of impotent roaring from >> Matoshtree will make it walk again. >> >> I find the poem that you sent, strongly objectionable, because it makes no >> attempt to distinguish between different kinds of opinion and publics in >> Pakistan. >> >> The poem says - >> >> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, >> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. >> >> >> For those who do not understand Hindi. These lines can be translated as >> follows - >> >> "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, lives were sacrificed >> In their hearts, Paki monsters rejoiced" >> >> I am aware of the fact that time and again, whenever terrorist atrocities >> occur in India, a significant section of Pakistani political society condemn >> acts of terrorism in no uncertain terms.  Many people in India do the same >> when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To lump all Pakistanis (or for that >> matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who 'rejoice in their hearts' when loss >> of life occurs, is disgusting. I find your endorsement of this disgusting >> sentiment shameful. >> >> There is a very strong body of public opinion in Pakistan that wants peace >> in South Asia, and realizes that peace is the only way forward in Pakistan. >> They act vigilantly against war-mongers and preachers of prejudice in >> Pakistan, exactly as many of us act vigilantly against the constituency that >> advocates permanent aggression here. That includes our vigilance against >> your hate filled agenda. >> >> Whenever an atrocity like what happened in Pune occurs, I find that the >> constituency of rabid right-wing nationalism comes crawling out like maggots >> to feast on the dead. As if they were waiting for tragedy to strike to once >> again find their reason for existence. >> >> Have none of these people any shame? Have you none at all? >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Irma Razdan >> Date: 2010/2/17 >> Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA >> To: >> >> For my Hindi speaking followers, this is a poem that was authored by a mod >> of a forum which is my frequent haunt. It is a take on the recent 'Aman ki >> Asha' program by the Times of India and Jang group of Pakistan, which is >> supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace project. Newbies, please refer to link. >> >> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, >> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा, >> >> पीठ में ख़ंजर भोंका जिनने, मानवता को ही छला, >> आज बोलते चले हैं वोही, कैसी शांति की भाषा, >> >> ज़मीन के लालच को धर्म का मुखौटा पहना, >> जिन जल्लादों ने छीना भारत माँ का गहना, >> आज उन्ही से रखनी होगी, हमको प्रेम की अभिलाषा >> वाह रे टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया, क्या खूब है तेरी आशा. >> >> देखो कैप्टन कालिया, ऐसा हुआ आपका बलिदान, >> आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु और क़सब को शायद मिल जाये जीवनदान, >> छब्बीस-ग्यारह दोहराने को बेचैन हैं जिनके जेहादी, >> दोस्ती का राग सुना रहे, वही कियानी, ज़रदारी और गीलानी, >> कौआ चले हंस की चाल, देखो इनकी मीठी भाषा, >> हमें दोस्ती का पाठ पढ़ाएंगे, अब सूजा अहमद पाशा. >> >> हमारे अपने नेताओं ने, देश को भी नहीं बख़्शा >> नपुंसक से भी कम पौरुष जिनमें, वो करेंगे देश की रक्षा? >> बातचीत के ज़रिये ये, मिटा देंगे सारे भेद >> आधा कश्मीर खोने का, इनको ज़रा नहीं खेद, >> राष्ट्र को किया लज्जित, दी शर्म-अल-शेख़ में निराशा, >> समझे नहीं हम किसने लिखी आख़िर उस दस्तावेज़ की भाषा. >> कब तक जयचंदों को जनती रहेगी हे माता! >> कब तक तेरे बच्चों को होती रहेगी हताशा, >> >> आतंकवाद की आग में जब जल रहा है पाकिस्तान, >> ऐसी हालत में इनके हृदय में जागा है इंसान, >> दिल्ली मुंबई अहमदाबाद ने जब की थीं जानें क़ुर्बान, >> मन ही मन खुश होते थे यही पाकी हैवान, >> देखो भारतवासियों, रखना इतना ध्यान, >> राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ में ही सदा देना तुम कमान, >> झूठे धर्म-निरपक्षों से रहना तुम सावधान, >> वोट बैंक बनकर कभी मत करना मतदान. >> >> बोस, पटेल, सावरकर ने, जिस देश को है तराशा, >> लूट ना ले उसको फिर, यह झूठी अमन की आशा. >> घर घर में आज जगती है, हर सुबह अमन की आशा, >> टाइम्स ऑफ इंडिया और दैनिक जंग का, देखो नया तमाशा. >> >> English Transliteration: >> >> Aman Ki Aasha >> >> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, >> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha, >> >> Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, manavta ko hi chhala, >> aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi shanti ki bhaasha, >> >> zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta pehna, >> jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka gehna, >> aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki abhilaasha, >> wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai teri Aasha. >> >> Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka balidaan, >> Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad mil jaaye jeevandaan, >> Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, bechain hain jinkay jehadi, >> hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani >> Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki meethi bhaasha, >> hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab Sooja Ahmed Pasha. >> >> Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi baksha, >> Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh karenge desh ki raksha? >> baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge saare bhed, >> aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara nahi khed, >> Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, >> samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir us dastavez ki bhasha. >> Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he maata, >> Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi hataasha. >> >> Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha hai Pakistan, >> Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, jaaga hai insaan, >> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi jaane qurbaan, >> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki haiwan. >> Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna dhyan, >> Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada dana tum kamaan, >> Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna tom saavdhaan, >> vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna matdaan. >> >> Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko hai taraasha, >> loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman ki aasha. >> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har subah aman ki aasha, >> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, dekho naya tamaasha. >> >> Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi >> >>  ------------------------------ >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Writer > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 00:16:42 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:16:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] What is Dead in Marx Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002201046s2b4bf915g5aab5f1cb9d320ff@mail.gmail.com> http://ih52.stier.net/notes/marx/dead.htm What is Dead in Marx 1. Although many people continue to call themselves Marxists, and Marxism remains a vital intellectual and, to some extent, political tradition, there is broad agreement among even leftist intellectuals, that some of Marx’s theories and ideals are, however attractive, misguided or wrong. But there is also a great deal of disagreement about where and when, if at all, Marx goes wrong. This note is my own accounting of some of the greatest difficulties with Marx and Marxism. 2. Some fairly obvious problems 1. As we saw in *The Failure of Revolution *Marx’s account of how communism would come about is flawed, in large part because of his mistaken view about the prospects for economic inequality. 3. Marx on political and social life: the tension between individual and collective freedom. 1. Marx would like to reconcile two conceptions of freedom: 1. Individual freedom. Taken in its fullest sense, individual freedom would encompass: 1. Civil rights and liberties: We are each able to make our own choices in life about what ends to pursue. We can decide what work to do, what relationships to create, where to live and so forth. 2. Political and social opportunities: We have the resources and educational opportunities to do whatever work we have an interest and for which we have the natural talents. 3. Educational and psychological opportunities: We have the psychological strength and education to honestly and thoroughly grasp our opportunities. 2. Communal freedom: Taken in its fullest sense, communal freedom would encompass: 1. A radical democracy in which 1. Each person had more or less equal influence on public policy 2. Public policy were determined by majority rule 2. Public deliberation and debate shaped the development of political and social life in all essential matters. 3. Rational planning of political and social life is carried out. 2. It does not seem possible to fully reconcile these two ideas. 1. Both individual freedom and effective politico-economic coordination require the use of markets. 1. Individual freedom does not seem to be possible if governments can tell individuals what jobs to do or what commodities to purchase. So there must, at least, be a labor and consumer goods market. 2. As we have seen in *Control Over the Means of Production Under Capitalism and Communism, *efficient politico-economic coordination of a complicated, highly advanced, technological economy is very difficult, if not impossible to achieve, by means of a authoritative planning system or command economy. 3. As we saw in the notes on *Nationalized Business Enterprises, *there are reasons to doubt the efficiency of such business enterprises. 2. Communal freedom is not entirely possible, especially if markets are used for politico-economic coordination. 1. Democratic planning is impossible if we cannot make some reasonable predictions about the future. 1. How can we plan the future if we can’t predict the outcome of various public policies? 2. The connection between planning and prediction is seen in the history of Marxist thought. 1. Marx’s confidence that a communist revolution is based upon predictions about the future that rest on his theoretical analysis of capitalism. 2. As I argued in *Marxism and Leninism *, Lenin justified the rule of the communist party based upon the supposed truth of his theoretical doctrines. 2. But, prediction is difficult, especially about the future. 1. Given that all sorts of natural phenomena can influence political and social life, prediction is very difficult. 1. We cannot predict natural disasters or the illnesses and deaths of individuals. 2. Prediction is especially difficult in a dynamic, growing political economy in which new knowledge is continually created and new forms of technology are developed. 1. We cannot, in principle, predict the development of new knowledge or technology. 2. Nor can we predict all the ways which will be discovered for using or abusing knowledge and technology or all of the byproducts of such use. 3. Individual freedom, and the use of markets, makes political and social planning even more difficult. 1. Freedom, and the use of markets, creates many unintended consequences in political and social life. 2. When people are free, they interact in many unplanned and unforeseen ways. 3. In part, we may understand the failure of combining the greatest individual and communal freedom as the result of the romantic radicalizing of enlightenment ideals. 1. Enlightenment philosophers sought both individual and communal freedom. 2. But enlightenment typically did not demand the greatest possible freedom. 3. And, faced with a choice, most (but not all) enlightenment philosophers would emphasize individual freedom. This is certainly the case with Locke, who, like most liberal political philosophers, were inclined to minimize the role of government beyond the protection of our right, and let political and social outcomes be the result of the unintended consequences of human interaction. 4. Many (but, again, not all) romantic political and moral philosophers sought to realize both ideals of freedom, to the highest degree. 4. It may be that the inability to reconcile the ideals of individual and communal freedom accounts, in part, for Marx’s inability to give a full account of what a communist political community would look like. 1. In part, Marx also wants to avoid the charge of utopianism. His ideals are not meant to be goals we should try to establish, but the inherent tendency of history. 2. And, in part, Marx was trying to avoid making utterly unwarranted predictions about the future. 3. Still, one can’t help suspecting that Marx’s reluctance to discuss the nature of communism reflects some problems that he dimly saw but never explored in depth. 1. Moreover, given that, as we saw above, rational planning requires a theoretical analysis of political and social life, the failure of rational planning suggests the limits of Marx’s theory. 2. Unfortunately, rather than recognize these limits, Lenin hid them, and justified his role in terms of his political and social theory. 5. The tension between individual and communal freedom does not undermine Marx’s ideals entirely. 1. It is certainly possible to have both individual and communal freedom to a certain degree. And, indeed, we might have them to a higher degree than we do now. 2. But at some point we have to choose between them. 3. Recognition of the necessity of choice is important. 1. Doing so will keep us from making radical and perhaps dangerous changes in our political and social life in the hopes of attaining unreachable ideals. 2. Doing so leads us to adopt safeguards to protect our own ideals. 1. If we uphold the liberal political tradition of the United States and choose the give a higher priority to individual freedom, we would take steps to protect that freedom even at the cost of reducing communal freedom. 1. We might, for example, limit the power of the majority in order to protect individual rights, as we do by giving the Supreme Court authority to interpret the bill of rights. 6. We should not blame Marx for his failure to recognize the limits of combining individual and communal freedom. We do the same thing all the time. 1. When tend to assume that there is someone to blame for all natural, as well as political and social, disasters. 2. That is, we neglect the possibility that some, unplanned and reasonably unexpected things just happen, without anyone wanting them to. 3. We are, that is, reluctant to acknowledge that, to some extent, political and social developments out of our control. 1. That they are out of our control is why governments always seem to be looking back, in order to deal with old problems. 4. Marx on Human Nature: Marx assumes, as we have seen, that scarcity can be overcome. There are two good reasons to doubt this. 1. Even within the terms of Marx’s own theory of human nature, scarcity can never be overcome. 1. The pursuit of free, productive activity is likely to be very expensive, at least for some people. 1. For example, photographers and computer people will always want the latest equipment. 2. There will be conflicts about common goods, such as what architectural style to build the city hall in. 3. If Marx is right, these conflicts will not be all that severe. 1. People will be more concerned with their productive activity than the accumulation of material goods for its own sake. 2. And they will have broad interests and concerns. Thus artists will want photographers to have good equipment, and vice versa. 4. But conflict over scarce resources will not end. 1. People may be satisfied with using lesser equipment in their productive activity. But, if given the opportunity, they would undoubtedly like to upgrade. 2. No one has the time to develop their faculties and capacities in all directions. And they will naturally want to see a greater share of resources go to those activities in which they have a particular interest. 2. Marx’s view of human nature may be partly wrong. 1. As we saw in other notes, Marx seems to assume that the desire for esteem, prestige, pride, power, and domination is not natural to human beings, but results from the conflict between people over scarce resources. 1. On this view, people only want esteem and power in order to gain greater material resources. 2. But it may be that Augustine and Machiavelli were correct, and these desires are much more deeply routed in our nature than Marx realizes. 1. And, as we have just seen, conflict over scarce resources is unlikely to be eliminated, even on Marx’s view of human nature. 3. What does that continued existence of political and social conflict mean? 1. We must prepare for conflict. We need protection against those Hamilton called "the ambitious rapacious." 1. This might, for example, justify restraints on both government officials and the majority. These restraints could limit communal freedom. 2. It would lead us to be wary of concentrating power in the hands of political authorities. 1. This is one of the best arguments for allowing business enterprises, whether privately or socially controlled, to be independent of governments. 3. It might lead us to make room or space for the ambitious to realized their aims in less harmful or dangerous ways. See the discussion in *Control of Work*. 2. We cannot expect to live our lives fully engaged in pursuing the internal goods of free productive activity. We will always have to be concerned about the external, instrumental goods of money, esteem and power. 4. Again, this does not entirely undermine Marxist ideals. 1. We might be able to invent forms of political and social life that tipped the balance towards a greater concern with free productive activity and thus reduce alienation. 2. But we must be careful not to create greater problems than we solve. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 14:39:45 2010 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:09:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Shahzad=E2=80=99s_Arrest_and_Goebbels?= =?utf-8?b?4oCZIExpZXM=?= Message-ID: <207115.69727.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Shahzad’s Arrest and Goebbels’ Lies (Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association) Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist, believed that a lie repeated several times over would soon acquire the legitimacy of truth. The Delhi Police has surpassed Goebbels’ strategy. By deluging the press and the public with one lie after another, it hopes that the truth will never be extricated. Who killed Inspector Sharma? Shahzad Ahmed (not ‘urf Pappu’ as he has never borne that name), the most recent prize catch of the Delhi Police is being charged with the murder of Inspector Sharma. Till now, we had been told that it were the two slain boys, Atif Ameen and Md. Sajid, whose fire had killed Inspector Sharma. Indeed, the NHRC report attempts to establish this at great length. According to “sources” quoted in the press, Shahzad fired from a .32 revolver (Zee news, Feb 07, TOI 07). Now according to the NHRC report, the cartridge cases recovered from the site of the ‘encounter’ matched the .30 pistols, W2 and W3, which the police claimed were found in flat 108, L-18, Batla House. Two mutilated bullets recovered from the bullet proof jacket of a police man, according to the NHRC were fired from W3. It may be repeated here again that no seizure list was prepared in the presence of any independent witness, as is procedurally required, so the claim that W2 and W3 and the corresponding bullets and cartridge belonged to Atif and Sajid is just that—a claim. No unaccounted for bullets and cartridge cases have been mentioned by either the police or the NHRC. So what happened to the cartridge cases of the .32 pistol used by Shahzad? Did the bullets and cartridge cases disappear in thin air, just as Shahzad and Junaid supposedly did? The Great Escape? According to the police version, reproduced faithfully in the press, Shahzad and Junaid escaped from the building L-18 while the encounter was on. It has been repeatedly pointed out by civil rights activists that the building only has one exit point through the staircase which is covered by a heavy iron grill. In the stories that have appeared in the press and also repeated by the NHRC report, this is sought to be explained by the presence of two separate doors to the flat 108. However, had the NHRC or reporters bothered to inspect the site, it would have been clear that these two gates are adjacent to each other. A police party standing at the landing of the 4th floor facing flat 108 would face both the doors simultaneously as both doors actually open in the same landing. In the bizarre reconstruction of events according to the police, first, Shahzad and Junaid supposedly opened the second door to the landing, where the police party was, and then ran down the stairs screaming that they were residents (TOI report, 05 Feb). Now, according to the statement of Karnail Singh, Joint Commissioner of Police, Special Cell, Delhi there was a “back-up team, headed by ACP Sanjeev Kumar Yadav …which immediately rushed to the flat in order to rescue the team members and apprehend the militants holed inside the flat.”(NHRC report). Now suppose, there were two militants who had fired upon the police and were running down the stairs, surely, they must still have wielded the pistols (.32??), and regardless of their protestations that they were residents, ACP Yadav’s team, which by the police’s own admission rushed upstairs immediately, should have apprehended them, or at least attempted to overpower them. And surely, the crowd of people, which the police claimed had collected around the building, hearing the firing, would have sighted two young men, pistols in hand running down the stairs. But all we have is police claims and custodial confessions of Shahzad (which remember are not admissible in court) that he and Junaid fired and fled the spot miraculously. But wait, it gets more twisted. According to a news report, Shahzad and Junaid, after making good their escape, walked to the bus stop and took a bus to Badarpur. In the evening, Shahzad and Junaid boarded a train to Mumbai without realizing where it was headed…” (Indian Express, Feb 04). Imagine, a fleeing terrorist waiting at the bus stop for the right route number bus to arrive! In other stories, the duo traveled to Aligarh (some say by train, others insist they took a bus) but there is no consensus on their travel itinerary. According to TOI on Feb 05) from Aligarh, the two went to Lucknow and thence to Azamgarh, where Junaid parted ways with Shahzad. In another report in the same paper, this was the route: Aligarh, Bulandshehar, Lucknow, Khalispur, Jaipur, Jodhpur, Mumbai (where the two separated). (TOI, Feb 07) So did they take a train out to Mumbai or a bus (or again train) to Aligarh? At the very least, the Delhi Police must try and be consistent in its leaks to the press. The Pilot Theory Crash lands As early as January 6, there started to appear reports in the television media (Headlines Today/ Aajtak) that a 9/11 type of attack had been planned by the IM to be conducted by Shahzad Ahmad who had ostensibly received a flying license at an institute in Bangalore. This was attributed to information contained in a confidential communiqué of the Intelligence agencies. Following Shahzad’s arrest, there was frenzied reporting about his commercial pilot license. But now it turns out that he had never enrolled in a flying institute. One may not choose to believe Shahzad’s mother when she denies he never received any flying training, but the Uttar Pradesh Addl DG (law and order), Brij Lal also refuted the allegation that Shahzad was a pilot (Mail Today, Feb 06). All reports of the aerial module of IM and Shahzad’s key position in this supposed module are based of course on unnamed sources in the police. Why were the Intelligence agencies so keen to propagate the falsehood of his flying skills? Manisha Sethi, Adil Mehdi, Ahmed Sohaib, Ghazi Shahnawaz, Tanweer Fazal, Arshad Alam, Sanghamitra Misra, Amabarien Al qadar, Haris ul Haq, Azra Razak, Farah Farooqi, Anwar Alam From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Feb 20 14:33:08 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:33:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Junaid, Thank you for your lucid outlining of a possible future. I agree with you, and I think the steps outlined by you - withdrawal of all occupying forces and a plebiscite or plebiscite held under independent international auspices - are both practicable and desirable But for this process to live up to its promise, we, all of us, (and I mean not just people in Kashmir) but in India and Pakistan and all of South Asia, desparately need different visions of what a Kashmir free of occupation can be like. My hope is that it can be a de- militarized beacon for South Asia, a free and open society that is as hospitable to strangers as it is committed to the liberty of all (regardless of race, sex, religion, class, caste or sexual orientation) its citizens. For this to move towards possibility, we need plans, visions, and the daily business of argument over utopias as well as concrete programmes. I hope that our friends in Kashmir will be as open in sharing their visions of how they see Kashmir in the future as they have been in sharing their just anger at the violence of the occupation, i remain in hope, yours Shuddha On 18-Feb-10, at 10:27 PM, Junaid wrote: > Hi Tara, > > I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of > parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let > ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze > our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by > itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane > solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate > of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if > we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums > (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more > hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." > > Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and > Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who > don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let > Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) > be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create > conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, > negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. > When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 > Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve > issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate > a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international > observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people > who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and > negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole > thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the > the process and its outcome. > > Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on > the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of > this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of > states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and > aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and > the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. > > Junaid > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash > wrote: >> Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. >> It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" >> >> To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" >> >> Cc: "Sarai" >> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >> The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed >> in 1947 and >> included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & >> Doda, Ladakh, >> Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about >> solutions then >> you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these >> people and >> not simply 'which Kashmiris.' >> >> >>> From: TaraPrakash >>> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 >>> To: Junaid >>> Cc: >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >>> >>> Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to >>> solve this >>> old >>> >> problem. >> Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which >>> >>> Kashmiris" was >> >> not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri >>> >>> nationality, or >> >> unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just >>> >>> canceling the >> >> noise. >> JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the >>> >>> brutal Mujahaddins, in >> >> their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, >>> >>> moved to J&K. From >> >> then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their >>> >>> homes. Every >> >> dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women >>> >>> were told >> >> to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces >>> >>> was their >> >> fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred >>> >>> and if >> >> that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being >>> >>> vocal. >> >> Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they >>> >>> Kashmiris? But >> >> they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. >>> >>> Aren't they >> >> Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are >>> >>> Kashmiris in >> >> POK free? >> Those who are part of National conference or PDP, >>> >>> aren't they Kashmiris? >> >> Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the >>> >>> question still remains which >> >> Kashmiris? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> >>> "Junaid" >> >> To: "Tara Prakash" >> Cc: >>> >>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM >> Subject: Re: >>> >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >> >> >> Dear Tara, >> >> I quote you: "But >>> >>> isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? >> >> Which Kashmiris?" End. >> >> I >>> >>> absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two >> >> follow-up >>> >>> questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones >> >> that will lead us to >>> >>> specifics. If anything they will further push us >> >> into a metaphysics of denial. >>> >>> I assume you know enough about Kashmir >> >> and are aware that there is no shortage >>> >>> of solutions. Indian >> >> government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a >>> >>> political issue, >> >> and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that >>> >>> remains >> >> is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The >>> >>> "right >> >> solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free >>> >>> and >> >> fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives >>> >>> for >> >> Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made >> it >>> >>> clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be >> >> forced down >>> >>> the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's >> >> legitimacy and >>> >>> authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows >> >> that is, can go to >>> >>> "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the >> >> problem). The first step would >>> >>> be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of >> >> their problem, that is allow them to >>> >>> find the right solution with a >> >> guarantee that it will be accepted. >> >> The second >>> >>> question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we >> >> really keep >>> >>> telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By >> >> asking this question, are >>> >>> you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? >> >> If you believe that "the people" >>> >>> have to elect their representatives, >> >> how can you in the same breath deny the >>> >>> existence of those same >> >> people? >> >> I guess the first "concrete suggestions" >>> >>> would be the dismantling of >> >> the draconian military and police apparatus from >>> >>> Kashmir: i.e. 1. >> >> remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of >>> >>> military and >> >> police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA >>> >>> and >> >> Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies >> involved >>> >>> in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. >> >> Allow Kashmiris to >>> >>> peacefully express their dissent (remove >> >> restrictions on free speech and >>> >>> assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the >> >> stranglehold that the security agencies >>> >>> have over the everyday life of >> >> people through technics of surveillance and >>> >>> proliferation of threats. >> >> Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next >>> >>> ones. At least it >> >> will show that the Indian government is sincere in its >>> >>> efforts to >> >> solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to >>> >>> tire >> >> people out. >> >> Junaid >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash >>> >>> wrote: >>> "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to >>> be solved, with the full >>> involvement of Kashmiris." >>> Agreed. But isn't it >>> time to move to specifics. What solution? Which >>> Kashmiris? A democratic >>> exercise requires people to elect their >>> representatives who can talk on >>> their behalf. But those who are chosen, >>> are >>> found to be going "to any >>> extent to please their masters in Delhi" >>> I don't think the Indian govt or UN >>> can talk to every Kashmiri on this >>> earth >>> for the resolution of the >>> problem. >>> It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions >>> towards >>> resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate >>> >>> people, >>> so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a >>> climate >>> towards >>> resolution of the issue. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Junaid" >>> To: ; "Junaid" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM >>> Subject: >>> [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested >>> >>> >>>> Dozens of young boys have >>> >>> been arrested across Kashmir under draconian >>>> >>>> laws over the last few weeks. >>> >>> The charges that have been filed against >>>> >>>> them range from "waging war >>> >>> against the state" to defiling "state >>>> >>>> honor". In recent months Indian >>> >>> military and police commanders have >>>> >>>> described protests in Kashmir as >>> >>> "agitational terrorism" and >>>> >>>> "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify >>> >>> violent clampdown on >>>> >>>> protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 >>> >>> people, mostly >>>> >>>> teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured >>> >>> by >>>> >>>> indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the >>>> >>> number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile >>>> >>>> thousands of >>> >>> people have been injured. Many of them will be left with >>>> >>>> permanent physical >>> >>> disabilities. The police authorities have banned >>>> >>>> any peaceful assembly of >>> >>> people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and >>>> >>>> other towns have reported >>> >>> police brutalities. Even the villages are >>>> >>>> not being spared. Only yesterday, >>> >>> mourning villagers were attacked by >>>> >>>> CRPF troopers in Redwani in South >>> >>> Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured >>>> >>>> by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most >>> >>> of the injuries were inflicted >>>> >>>> above the waist showing an intention to >>> >>> kill. >>>> >>>> India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, >>> >>> but >>>> >>>> in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel >>> >>> dimension. >>>> >>>> The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline >>> >>> and >>>> >>>> demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the >>>> Indian >>>> >>> state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to >>>> >>>> deceive >>> >>> its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris >>>> >>>> in Azad >>> >>> Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy >>>> >>>> has been there >>> >>> for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought >>>> >>>> back every few years >>> >>> to earn brownie points. >>>> >>>> National Conference government which has proved >>> >>> its inability to >>>> >>>> function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't >>> >>> even remove >>>> >>>> an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has >>> >>> sought to >>>> >>>> play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent >>> >>> to >>>> >>>> please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging >>>> for >>>> >>> leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the >>> cruel >>>> >>> police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and >>>> >>>> Kashmir >>> >>> police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, >>>> >>>> perhaps in a >>> >>> bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian >>>> >>>> army's help. >>>> >>>> >>> Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir >>> (apart >>>> >>>> from >>> >>> the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is >>>> >>>> time, the >>> >>> conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity >>>> >>>> with >>> >>> Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's >>>> >>>> inhuman >>> >>> tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to >>>> >>>> stop human >>> >>> rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that >>>> >>>> Kashmir is a >>> >>> political issue that needs to be solved, with the full >>>> >>>> involvement of >>> >>> Kashmiris. >>>> >>>> _____________________ >>>> Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K >>> >>> gov; >>>> >>>> Riyaz Wani >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J- >>> K-govt/580232 >>> >>>> >>>> The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters >>>> for >>>> >>> Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or >>> life >>>> >>>> in >>> >>> jail. >>>> >>>> The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against >>> >>> eight >>>> >>>> stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week >>>> >>> while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section >>>> >>>> 121 of >>> >>> CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home >>>> >>>> Department >>> >>> told The Indian Express that the government was ready with >>>> >>>> PSAs against ł20 >>> >>> more such youths˛. >>>> >>>> The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court >>> >>> on Monday. Police >>>> >>>> sought their remand for eight days, which was soon >>> >>> granted by Judge >>>> >>>> Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told >>> >>> the court, >>>> >>>> were directly involved in pelting stones at police and >>> >>> security >>>> >>>> forces. >>>> >>>> However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said >>> >>> the youths were held >>>> >>>> in random raids across the city and were not involved >>> >>> in >>>> >>>> stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of >>> >>> CrPC. >>>> >>>> J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety >>> >>> Act >>>> >>>> during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be >>>> >>> booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was >>> released >>>> >>> shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during >>>> >>>> protests >>> >>> over the death of two women in Shopian. >>>> >>>> IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said >>> >>> he was not in a position to give łthe >>>> >>>> exact number of youths˛ booked under >>> >>> PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am >>>> >>>> out of station and donąt have the exact >>> >>> number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian >>>> >>>> Express. >>>> Police say waging war against >>> >>> country, judge not impressed >>>> >>>> _____________ >>>> Police say waging war >>> >>> against country, judge not impressed >>>> >>>> Peerzada Ashiq >>>> >>> peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com >>>> >>>> Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted >>> >>> Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a >>>> >>>> raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows >>> >>> of chairs. łYes madam. >>>> >>>> Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 >>> >>> jostled youth with red >>>> >>>> cheeks and red hands because of cold. >>>> >>>> This is >>> >>> no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday >>>> >>>> in downtown >>> >>> Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The >>>> >>>> police presented >>> >>> them before the court on Monday for extending their >>>> >>>> police remand. But >>> >>> after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the >>>> >>>> boys to judicial remand >>> >>> for 15 days. >>>> >>>> łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in >>> >>> advance?˛ >>>> >>>> judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. >>> >>> łThrough >>>> >>>> reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. >>>> >>>> łHow >>> >>> is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these >>>> >>>> reliable >>> >>> sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation >>>> >>>> officer, looking >>> >>> at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, >>>> >>>> and involved for the >>> >>> last five years.˛ >>>> >>>> There was sudden commotion in the court room, when >>> >>> Zahid, one of the >>>> >>>> accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time >>> >>> we are in the >>>> >>>> lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, >>> >>> who was on >>>> >>>> the bike when the police arrested him. >>>> >>>> The boy, wearing a >>> >>> pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are >>>> >>>> joined by others in the >>> >>> room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, >>>> >>>> requesting them to wipe tears >>> >>> and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be >>>> >>>> done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief >>> >>> Minister Omar Abdullah told the >>>> >>>> media we are launching a crackdown against >>> >>> stone-pelters, the police >>>> >>>> are picking up anyone who comes in the way. >>>> >>>> >>> The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the >>> court in >>>> >>>> heavy >>> >>> chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against >>>> >>>> the state and >>> >>> insulting the national honour. The punishment includes >>>> >>>> life imprisonment. >>> >>> The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar >>>> >>>> and were presented >>> >>> before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. >>>> >>>> Lawyer Joo contested >>> >>> that the police cannot impose the waging a war >>>> >>>> against the nation unless a >>> >>> magistrate has done an investigation in a >>>> >>>> case and the police cannot do it >>> >>> on their own. >>>> >>>> While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a >>> >>> row, their >>>> >>>> relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their >>> >>> innocence: >>>> >>>> łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and >>> >>> arrested >>>> >>>> us,˛ they said. >>>> >>>> While a policeman shouted back: łThey have >>> >>> snatched our peace.˛ >>>> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> >>>> Critiques & >>> >>> Collaborations >>>> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> >>> with >>>> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >>>> List archive: >>> >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> ______________________ >>> >>> ___________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> >>> city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >>> >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To >>> >>> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List >>> >>> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From magiclantern.foundation at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 07:26:07 2010 From: magiclantern.foundation at gmail.com (Magic Lantern Foundation) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:26:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation to the 3rd edition of Persistence Resistance Film Festival Message-ID: Dear Friends, We write to invite you to the third edition of Persistence Resistance: a festival of contemporary political films between 25th - 27th February 2010 in New Delhi. Dates: 25, 26 & 27th February 2010 Time: 9:30 am to 9:30 pm Venue: India International Centre, 40 Max Mueller Marg, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi 110003 Entry Free The festival details and schedule are available at: http://www.magiclanternfoundation.org/Events/pr2010/pr10_home.html We look forward to your presence at the festival. Please also circulate this invitation to those who might be interested to attend or write about the festival. With Best Wishes MLF Festival Team -- Magic Lantern Foundation J 1881, Chittaranjan Park, New Delhi 110019 Ph: +(91 11) 26273244, 41605239 Email: magiclantern.foundation at gmail.com Web: http://www.magiclanternfoundation.org From aliens at dataone.in Sun Feb 21 00:28:15 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:28:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] It's time to open the debate on covert operations In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002201034w303466aer68cd1cae5ca13147@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002201034w303466aer68cd1cae5ca13147@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001cab25e$a8c62bb0$fa528310$@in> Yes Pawan, it's time for some hard action now. But, I think so with congress rule it is not possible. -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Pawan Durani Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:04 AM To: reader-list Subject: [Reader-list] It's time to open the debate on covert operations http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint-ArticleDetail.aspx?ID=443 It's time to open the debate on covert operations (NEW)- Vir Sanghvi Last month an 11-member hit team dispatched by Israel’s Mossad travelled to Dubai and assassinated Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh, a Hamas military commander and number one on Israel’s list of most wanted terrorists. Al-Mabhouh was clearly an unsavoury character, one of the founders of Hamas’s military wing, an abductor and murderer of Israeli soldiers and an organizer of terrorist attacks on civilians. Few tears were shed in Israel over his death but there has been a minor uproar in England over the use of cloned British passports by the Israeli hit team. Normally, the Israelis just fake passports. But on this occasion, they cloned the real passports of Britons who have settled in Israel. The Brits say this is unacceptable. Why couldn’t Mossad have just faked the passports as usual? What’s interesting is that very little of the outrage focuses on the assassination itself. By now, the West has accepted that Israelis will track down and assassinate terrorists no matter where in the world they hide. And, in the post 9/11 era, few people seem to mind. It is widely accepted that terrorists can rarely be brought to justice and convicted by courts of law. So, an assassination often seems like the most effective option. All this has lessons for India. There are broadly, four ways of fighting terrorism. The first is that you guard every likely target. This is nearly impossible to do and no matter how many men you deploy, terrorists will slip through the cracks. The second is that you use intelligence to discover terrorist plots and then foil them. This too, is hardly a fool-proof strategy. The third is that after terrorist attacks are committed you spare no effort in going after the perpetrators so that you deter would-be terrorists. The Israelis travelled the world in the aftermath of the Munich attacks in 1972 and killed every one of the terrorist masterminds. And the fourth is covert action: you take the battle into the enemy’s camp. You infiltrate terrorist organizations, you kill terrorists before they can strike, and you dabble in the internal affairs of your opponents, financing and arming those groups that are likely to create trouble for your enemies. Pakistan has always shown a willingness to use covert operations against India. Even if you take the line that the 26/11 terrorists did not have official sanction, nobody can deny that the Pakistanis have used assassination as an element of state policy. In Kashmir, for instance, important leaders have been bumped off by the Pakistanis when they refused to follow Islamabad’s line. Equally, Islamabad has traditionally funded groups that are inimical to Delhi. Till the creation of Bangladesh, East Pakistan was used to provide arms and support to the Mizos and the Nagas. Since then, Pakistan has funded Sikh separatists, local jihadis and of course Kashmiri militants. India’s record on covert operations has been lacklustre. We have preferred to fight terrorism either by relying on intelligence or by heightening security. When it comes to retribution, we prefer to go through legal channels rather than take direct action. We will wait for the Pakistanis to prosecute Hafiz Sayeed rather than eliminate him ourselves. And while we have funded Pakistani separatists in the past, this assistance has been feeble and more or less dried up after Inder Gujral made R&AW roll up its operations in Pakistan when he was PM. It is now increasingly clear that Pakistan either cannot (the view of the doves) act against powerful terrorist groups or will not (the view of the hawks) prevent terrorists from attacking Indian targets. A similar lack of strength or willingness is reflected in its failure to effectively prosecute the likes of Hafiz Sayeed. So what is India to do? Are we to rely on increased security and better intelligence? Or are we to step up our covert operations? "Western nations do not finance terrorism. But equally, they do not consider themselves restricted by the niceties of the law." Till recently, many Indians would have been appalled by the idea of covert operations. We reject the idea of moral equivalence with Pakistan and cannot see ourselves financing militants who engage in violence. I once asked Manmohan Singh why we rejected the covert option and his answer summed up the mood in government: because of the manner in which it would brutalize the Indian state and damage our moral psyche. Indians simply do not do such things. But I am now coming around to the view that it is time to reconsider. There are two kinds of covert operations. The first is the Pakistani style, whereby jihadis travel to India and kill women and children. The other is the approach increasingly favoured by the West (and pioneered by Israel) in the aftermath of 9/11. Western nations do not finance terrorism. But equally, they do not consider themselves restricted by the niceties of the law. America has infiltrated terror groups, encourages them to fight with each other, kidnaps and whisks away important terrorists (‘rendition’) and sub-contracts the job of executing terrorists to friendly secret services. There is a strong case for us in India to follow that example. Let’s take the instance of the three terrorists who were freed in Kandahar in exchange for the passengers on IC 814. They travelled to Pakistan where they were welcomed as heroes. Should we not have pursued them and taken them out? Would this not have served as a warning to other terrorists? Similarly, we know who many of the 26/11 masterminds are and where they live. Should we wait for the Pakistanis to move against them – assuming that Pakistan is so inclined? Or should we just send a hit team? We know where Dawood Ibrahim, the man behind the Bombay blasts, lives. Should we mount a large-scale operation to eliminate him? Similarly, should we not consider doing to Pakistan what it does to us? There are many Sindhis, Mohajirs, and yes, Baluchis, who have no affection for the Punjabi elite which runs Pakistan. Should we not finance them so that they can more forcefully express their discontentment? The more trouble there is for Pakistan from within, the more distracted the government in Islamabad will be. Our answer to all these questions, so far, has been an unequivocal no. When Manmohan Singh agreed to include a reference to Baluchistan in the Sharm-el-Sheikh statement, we were appalled because the thought of any Indian involvement in Baluchistan was repugnant to us. We did not object on pragmatic grounds: why surrender the Baluchistan option when we can use it to create trouble for Pakistan? As the Poona attack demonstrates, the terrorism is not going to stop. Pakistan is going to step up its efforts to radicalize and arm Indian Muslim groups so that it can then argue that the terrorism is indigenous. Should we just sit back and wait for this to happen while placing our faith in the power of dialogue? Or should we re-think our approach to the battle against terror? I’m not sure what the answers to these questions are. But the time has come to open the debate on covert operations. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From iram at sarai.net Sun Feb 21 00:11:32 2010 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:41:32 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd:#INEVERASKFORIT Feb 17-27 Message-ID: <4B802CDC.5030305@sarai.net> fwd: Subject:#INEVERASKFORIT Feb 17-27 From:Jasmeen Patheja Date:Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:55:59 +0530 Hello Because acts of sexual violence continue to be defended with the statement 'she asked for it' No woman of any colour, dress , age, character deserves to be sexually violated or what some might lightly call 'eve teased'. This is an invitation to a new phase of our campaign- I NEVER ASK FOR IT and in the true Blank Noise spirit, we're opening this to you to be an Action Hero. Here's how if you tweet * tweet what you wore when you experienced any kind of sexual harassment with #ineveraskforit. (feb 17-27) * retweet the message above * you could even select your twitter page backdrop from here look up #ineveraskforit response on twitter: http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23ineveraskforit * and when you're not online: We are also organizing clothes collection drives across cities On Saturday Feb 20 between 5-7 pm we will be in Koramangla, Bangalore On Saturday Feb 27 there will be a clothes collection drive in Delhi More cities/ towns details to follow to get involved you can 1. collect clothes of self. family. friends. institution 2. bring clothes to a clothes collection drive 3. or even organize a clothes collection drive in your neighbourhood. office. place. 4. or volunteer to collect clothes where you live . work. 5. or suggest other ways of making this happen! http://blog.blanknoise.org/2010/02/blog-post.html#links See images from the last clothes collection drive here email us at blanknoise at gmail.com We look forward to hearing from you, thanks! Jasmeen on behalf of Blank Noise /////////////////////////////////////////// BLANK NOISE! http://blog.blanknoise.org http://bnguy.blanknoise.org http://twitter.com/blank_noise http://actionheroes.blanknoise.org http://spectators.blanknoise.org http://flickr.com/photos/blanknoisethisplace http://flickr.com/photos/blanknoise http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?ref=sb#/group.php?gid=2703755288 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 00:34:19 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:34:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002201104h388ac298v133980b4ea0ab86a@mail.gmail.com> Editorial Reviews Amazon.com Review When it was first published in France in 1997, *Le livre noir du Communisme* touched off a storm of controversy that continues to rage today. Even some of his contributors shied away from chief editor Stéphane Courtois's conclusion that Communism, in all its many forms, was morally no better than Nazism; the two totalitarian systems, Courtois argued, were far better at killing than at governing, as the world learned to its sorrow. Communism did kill, Courtois and his fellow historians demonstrate, with ruthless efficiency: 25 million in Russia during the Bolshevik and Stalinist eras, perhaps 65 million in China under the eyes of Mao Zedong, 2 million in Cambodia, millions more Africa, Eastern Europe, and Latin America--an astonishingly high toll of victims. This freely expressed penchant for homicide, Courtois maintains, was no accident, but an integral trait of a philosophy, and a practical politics, that promised to erase class distinctions by erasing classes and the living humans that populated them. Courtois and his contributors document Communism's crimes in numbing detail, moving from country to country, revolution to revolution. The figures they offer will likely provoke argument, if not among cliometricians then among the ideologically inclined. So, too, will Courtois's suggestion that those who hold Lenin, Trotsky, and Ho Chi Minh in anything other than contempt are dupes, witting or not, of a murderous school of thought--one that, while in retreat around the world, still has many adherents. A thought-provoking work of history and social criticism, *The Black Book of Communism* fully merits the broadest possible readership and discussion. *--Gregory McNamee* >From Publishers Weekly In France, this damning reckoning of communism's worldwide legacy was a bestseller that sparked passionate arguments among intellectuals of the Left. Essentially a body count of communism's victims in the 20th century, the book draws heavily from recently opened Soviet archives. The verdict: communism was responsible for between 85 million and 100 million deaths in the century. In France, both sales and controversy were fueled, as Martin Malia notes in the foreword, by editor Courtois's specific comparison of communism's "class genocide" with Nazism's "race genocide." Courtois, the director of research at the prestigious Centre Research National de la Recherche Scientifique in Paris and editor of the journal Communisme, along with the other distinguished French and European contributors, delivers a fact-based, mostly Russia-centered wallop that will be hard to refute: town burnings, mass deportations, property seizures, family separations, mass murders, planned faminesAall chillingly documented from conception to implementation. The book is divided into five sections. The first and largest takes readers from the "Paradoxes of the October Revolution" through "Apogee and Crisis in the Gulag System" to "The Exit from Stalinism." Seeing the U.S.S.R. as "the cradle of all modern Communism," the book's other four sections document the horrors of the Iron Curtain countries, Soviet-backed agitation in Asia and the Americas, and the Third World's often violent embrace of the system. A conclusionA"Why?"Aby Courtois, points to a bureaucratic, "purely abstract vision of death, massacre and human catastrophe" rooted in Lenin's compulsion to effect ideals by any means necessary. (Oct.) Copyright 1999 Reed Business Information, Inc. See all Editorial Reviews ------------------------------ Product Details - *Hardcover:* 912 pages - *Publisher:* Harvard University Press; 1st American Edition edition (October 15, 1999) - *Language:* English - *ISBN-10:* 0674076087 - *ISBN-13:* 978-0674076082 - *Product Dimensions: *9.3 x 6.5 x 2.2 inches - *Shipping Weight:* 2.8 pounds (View shipping rates and policies ) - *Average Customer Review:* 4.2 out of 5 stars See all reviews (108 customer reviews ) From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 00:50:40 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:50:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why are the worst mass murderers from the left? Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002201120q2c0dd277h4cc7377e3228e8e@mail.gmail.com> Source : http://eca.sh/JffE Why are the worst mass murderers from the left? The worst mass murderers from the twentieth century and possibly for all time were Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Hitler - all left wing dictators. Did I say Hitler? I think that most people would not object to my calling Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot left wing dictators. But Hitler? Many people think of him as a right wing dictator but that is not correct. Why is Hitler a creature of the left? To begin with, the Nazi party stands for the German Workers' National Socialist Party. Hitler claimed in a speech on May 1, 1927: "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." The Nazi Party campaigned on a recognisably leftist platform. Here is an excerpt from the 1920 Nazi party manifesto: "10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. The activities of the individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the general good. Therefore we demand: 11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished. 12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in life and property, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as a crime against the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits whether in assets or material. 13. We demand the nationalization of businesses which have been organized into cartels. 14. We demand that all the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out. 15. We demand extensive development of provision for old age. 16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle-class, the immediate communalization of department stores which will be rented cheaply to small businessmen, and that preference shall be given to small businessmen for provision of supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities. 17. We demand a land reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to confiscate from the owners without compensation any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land." The party manifesto does not call for free market capitalism. Calling for nationalization, confiscation of land are things that Socialists or Communists call for. Of course, you can say that Hitler or any votrepreneur (politician) will say anything to gain power. His rhetoric gained him the support of mostly lower income and middle income Germans. Ultimately, its what he did that counts. Action speaks louder than words. So what did Hitler do when he came to power? Hitler took over control of nearly all means of production like a good Socialist or Communist would. He did not nationalize all assets of production like what Lenin or Mao did. The nominal ownership was left in private hands. But the substance of ownership passed to the state. This is explained in an article by George Reisman writing for the Ludwig von Mises Institute. Drawing on the writings of the great economist, Ludwig Von Mises, Reisman explained why Nazism is Socialism and why Socialism leads to totalitarianism. When Hitler took power in Germany, the "owners" of assets of production (eg factories, farms etc) had every major economic decision decided for him by the state. The state (or some central planning bureaucrat) told you how many workers you must employ, how much to pay them, how much to charge for your products and services and how much dividends the owners get. The government also practiced wage and price controls in 1936. (The government had to impose wage and price controls because of the runaway inflation as a result of increasing of its money supply to fund its huge programs of public works, subsidies and rearmament. To keep the people happy, he gave them cheap subsidised holidays to the Alps and the Canary Islands. ) When your rights to your "property" such as a factory or farm or rental apartments etc are so eroded, the state effectively owns them. You are "owner" in name only. Thus I would put the Nazi party left of say the British Labor Party but right of the Communist Party of Soviet Union. Since Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin were people who claim to be Socialist or Communist, is there something in Socialism that leads to totalitarian government? The answer is a yes. I will sum up the arguments. Firstly, Socialism calls for state control of all means of production. This means that all workshops, farms, factories etc are to be controlled by the state. What to produce and how much will be centrally planned. The state will decide what to produce, how much to produce and sell at what price. It has no way of telling what consumers want. In a capitalist economy, all these questions will be settled by the market as each individual pursues his own self interest. If a product is in demand, then its price will go up. Other independent producers will see a profit opportunity and increase production for the product. As production increases, the price will drop. In a command economy the bureaucrat decides all this. Since prices are controlled, shortages or gluts will be the result since it is hard for the bureaucrat to get it exactly right. That is why in the former Soviet Union, you end up with long queues - which is an unproductive way of spending your day. The Soviets also sold staples like bread very cheaply. The result was wastage as people fed the bread to their pigs. Of course, there will be people who want to sell at a higher price than the officially sanctioned prices so as to gain a larger profit. So to enforce the system, the state will have to make it a crime. This means that they will employ an army of spies to detect black market activities. People will fear one another for anybody could be a spy. Even your girl-friend might be a spy. Punishment for profiteering is severe since a fine would merely be regarded as a business expense. Since a jury is unlikely to send a man to the firing squad for selling a bar of soap at a higher price, you need state appointed judges to do the dirty work. The result is a complete loss of freedom. To enforce Socialism then you need a totalitarian system where everybody is suspicious of everybody else and power is concentrated at the top. This was what happened in Nazi Germany and the United Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). Once the state has so much control over the lives of its people, all sorts of nasty things can happen - including mass murder. That is why the worst mass murderers of the 20th century were all creatures of the left. The more concentrated the power, the more abuses are likely and Socialism has a tendency to concentrate power. This has not fortunately not happened in any western democracy even those which are run by parties that call themselves Socialists. But the tendency for greater state control over your lives are always there. Its just embedded in Socialism. For example, in the year 2000, France's leftist government of Lionel Jospin created the Department of Work Police. The Work Police will catch people who work too hard! (2) At a time when countries try to compete to by working harder, the French Socialists wanted to do the opposite! From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 10:05:58 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:05:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002201030q1348387an4736a5799f7f53c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> <909917EA-1D53-45E0-9DB4-19E1F4AA2894@sarai.net> <6b79f1a71002201030q1348387an4736a5799f7f53c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all In this entire set, let me ask a few questions, which will really tell as to what should actually be answered, going beyond personal debates. These are the questions which require answers for any talks, to be meaningful. Questions: 1) Why should India talk with Pakistan? 2) What should India talk with Pakistan? And what should be the Indian stand on things which India wishes to talk with Pakistan on? 3) Finally, whom should India talk to in Pakistan? Right now I am tied up, but I would like people to answer these questions, rather than making the debate too personal. Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 11:35:34 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:35:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?It=92s_raining_sops_=26_grants_for?= =?windows-1252?q?_Muslims_in_UP?= Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002202205y6322b300uead59d22c1e5407b@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Courting-support-Its-raining-sops-grants-for-Muslims-in-UP/articleshow/5582103.cms LUCKNOW: Giant hoardings of politicians cutting across party lines stare down at passers-by at Hafizpur main crossing looking a tad incongruous. This kasbah, a mere 20 km off Azamgarh, is inhabited mostly by landless Muslim farmers, and everybody and his brother here is a bit baffled by the off season wooing by political heavyweights. Within days of UP Congress incharge Digvijay Singh’s visit to Azamgarh, BSP supremo and UP CM Mayawati on Tuesday reactivated the Muslim ‘bhaichara samitis’ under Cabinet minister Naseemuddin Siddiqui. She has also made major allocations to minorities in the state budget. The sops include Rs 212 crore for special scholarships to Muslims; doubling of grant to Urdu Academy; construction of Haj houses in Ghaziabad and Lucknow, setting up of a Urdu-Persian university in Lucknow. The alarm in Samajwadi Party is even more palpable where its boss Mulayam Singh Yadav dropped ‘Babri culprit’ Kalyan Singh and his friend Amar Singh. The humiliating defeat of his daughter-in-law Dimple Yadav at Ferozabad forced him to dump the Yadav-backward-Thakur formula he had worked out with Kalyan, Amar and Co. Now he is back to being ‘‘Maulana Mulayam’’ with his skull cap and red-and-white check ‘keffiah’ (a sort of towel) in place. As for Congress, Digvijay Singh’s Sanjarpur sojourn, during which he called for a fast track court to try the Batla House encounter accused, it was just the beginning. There’s increasing talk of AICC general secretary Rahul Gandhi visiting Shibli National College in Azamgarh. The party is focusing on east UP — its Achilles’ heel. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 11:46:38 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:46:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?It=92s_raining_sops_=26_grants_for?= =?windows-1252?q?_Muslims_in_UP?= In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002202205y6322b300uead59d22c1e5407b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002202205y6322b300uead59d22c1e5407b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan You and the nation would be wise enough to understand that none of this really helps the Muslims, and this is only in addition to majority of the steps which were undertaken in the past as well, only turning out as publicity exercises. The reality is already there in the Sachar committee report, which castigates specially those states which always shout about themselves being secular governments. West Bengal is one of the worst performing states when it comes to improvement in condition of Muslims. On the other hand, Gujarat has actually better conditions for Muslims, though this may not be related to Modi or his BJP govt. at all. The reason is pretty simple. Muslims are not organisms from Mars or other planet. They are human beings, just like us. And all humans have some common needs, and there are common indicators of development for all of us, including Muslims. Instead of concentrating on such things like education, health and others, the governments have more interest in grants on Haj. There would be more Muslims not going for Haj than those going for it. What's the use of such an expenditure. Not to forget, the Waqf boards in many states have indulged in scams which together could total out to be one of the biggest land scams in India, as Outlook once reported. Although to be fair, scholarships and creating universities is ok, provided you really wish to ensure quality education. May be the UP govt. would do better to spend on primary education and primary health in rural and urban areas, strengthen the PDS system and other things. Then caste may really turn out to be totally irrelevant in the next elections. Rakesh From yasir.media at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 12:12:54 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:42:54 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: References: <6353c691002162337n588d3191ub27b8b5f01d1dfc8@mail.gmail.com> <1ED07873-75B6-456C-9312-0ADBF6584B9B@sarai.net> <6353c691002170351v6c48cfb3t4b8785d147b8c9d3@mail.gmail.com> <9c06aab31002192340t69479f25h33fba75ab3d77641@mail.gmail.com> <6353c691002200027t30a8ab75g9a932c0aba784adf@mail.gmail.com> <909917EA-1D53-45E0-9DB4-19E1F4AA2894@sarai.net> <6b79f1a71002201030q1348387an4736a5799f7f53c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb1002202242x7bfe5c1n736e4c16160a8338@mail.gmail.com> according at a speaker yesterday from India visiting Karachi, he got the same observation from a rickshawala in mumbai, a panwala in benaras and _____ in delhi that : we've had one mumbai incident, but in pakistan next door there have been so many - so what are you comparing. On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > In this entire set, let me ask a few questions, which will really tell as > to > what should actually be answered, going beyond personal debates. These are > the questions which require answers for any talks, to be meaningful. > > Questions: > > 1) Why should India talk with Pakistan? > > 2) What should India talk with Pakistan? And what should be the Indian > stand > on things which India wishes to talk with Pakistan on? > > 3) Finally, whom should India talk to in Pakistan? > > Right now I am tied up, but I would like people to answer these questions, > rather than making the debate too personal. > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From amit.mahanti at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 12:53:46 2010 From: amit.mahanti at gmail.com (Amit Mahanti) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:53:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation to ML 05 B 6055 / Disconnect Message-ID: <852cf9501002202323g7767e7b0wa87150c1fd0e17f9@mail.gmail.com> Dear All We are happy to invite you for the screening of our film- *ML 05 B 6055* and to view our installation-*Disconnect*, as part of the Persistence Resistance Film Festival at India International Centre, New Delhi, 25-27 February 2010 * * *ML 05 B 6055* documents the journey of a bazaar bus between the village of Mawjatap in the East Khasi Hills and Shillong, the capital of Meghalaya. The film is an assemblage of images and extracts from conversations around the bus with various people. It depicts the intricate linkage that exists between the bus and rural life and livelihoods in Meghalaya and tries to highlight the dependence that people have on the bus in all aspects of their lives. *ML 05 B 6055* is, in a sense, a biographical portrait of a bus – how a wooden bus is made, its functionality, systems that exist around it and the associations and attachment that people have for their bus. Screening/27 February 2010, 4.45 p.m., I.I.C. Main Auditorium *Disconnect* is an audio-video-text installation that explores life around the bazaar buses of Meghalaya. Images, text and sound come together to unravel the universe of the bus, inside and outside. Fragments of the everyday, terrains of work and livelihood, people’s associations and attachment for the bus. *Disconnect* is an interplay of the many worlds that the bus traverses between the village and the city. *Installation/25-27 February 2010, 10 a.m - 9.30 p.m, Gandhi King Plaza, I.I.C.*** Best Amit Film Festival details - http://www.magiclanternfoundation.org/Events/pr2010/pr10_home.html) From aliens at dataone.in Sun Feb 21 12:52:13 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:52:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000701cab2c6$97220ba0$c56622e0$@in> Dear Junaid, Can you elaborate what is your vision for Kashmir? Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Junaid Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:10 PM To: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Cc: Sarai Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested Dear Shuddha, As you know, I have always admired your sustained (and reasoned) defense of the Kashmiri struggle. I also share, to the letter, your vision of a possible future Kashmir. There have been many obstacles in the past and there still remain many in actualizing all, or even most, of the substance that you have outlined. My hope is that the natural strength of these arguments, for a free, open, and hospitable Kashmir, will eventually cut through much of the dense haze of religious extremism and any form of chauvinistic nationalism. I say "natural strength" because I think, and it needs sympathetic eyes and ears and touch to find that there are elements already present, both concrete and amorphous, solid and fragmented, that need restoration, healing, and reorientation, to lay a solid base for our vision to actualize. To make this possible, we need now to move beyond "news." We can no longer afford to be led astray by the daily business of events, and we must continuously cut through them. Our debates must not remain hostage to ossified categories, nor our imagination pegged to official and communalistic chronologies. It now requires a sustained engagement with people on the ground, instead of just among ourselves. Our solidarity must be based on a shared vision for a future Kashmir which new events must not be allowed to flounder. We have to be patient as well. New languages, even if many elements for it to form are already present, will take time to take root. We need to disseminate this vision widely. And not only in Kashmir, but in the rest of southasia as well. many regards, junaid On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:03 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Junaid, > Thank you for your lucid outlining of a possible future. I agree with you, > and I think the steps outlined by you - withdrawal of all occupying forces > and a plebiscite or plebiscite held under independent international auspices > - are both practicable and desirable > But for this process to live up to its promise, we, all of us, (and I mean > not just people in Kashmir) but in India and Pakistan and all of South Asia, > desparately need different visions of what a Kashmir free of occupation can > be like. My hope is that it can be a de-militarized beacon for South Asia, a > free and open society that is as hospitable to strangers as it is committed > to the liberty of all (regardless of race, sex, religion, class, caste or > sexual orientation) its citizens. For this to move towards possibility, we > need plans, visions, and the daily business of argument over utopias as well > as concrete programmes. I hope that our friends in Kashmir will be as open > in sharing their visions of how they see Kashmir in the future as they have > been in sharing their just anger at the violence of the occupation, > i remain in hope, > yours > Shuddha > On 18-Feb-10, at 10:27 PM, Junaid wrote: > > Hi Tara, > I agree with Sonia that the Kashmir "dispute" involves a number of > parties and peoples. I believe as time has passed we have let > ourselves believe that the issue is so "complicated" as to paralyze > our thinking, vaguely hoping that one day the issue will settle by > itself. These are man-made problems and need human and humane > solutions. Also we should not let state "interests" determine the fate > of a people. These issues can't be left to fester perpetually. Even if > we go back to early 50s there were plans to hold regional referendums > (Dixon plan etc), which, with all their problems, sounded like more > hopeful ways out of the imbroglio than our present "muddlings." > Personally, I believe the best way would be for both India and > Pakistan to relinquish claims over those peoples (and their lands) who > don't want to be under their sovereignty. These countries need to let > Kashmiris (and those who also don't want to be part of either country) > be. For the process to start India and Pakistan need to create > conditions in which people can freely and without fear discuss, > negotiate, argue, oppose and come to a mutually agreeable solution. > When I say mutually, I mean different constituencies within 1947 > Kashmir. We must believe in the creative powers of people to solve > issues what seem to be "complicated." Second step would be to initiate > a democratic process, perhaps under the auspices of international > observers to hold elections to choose representatives of the people > who can give shape to a new constitution, new institutions, and > negotiate permanent agreements with India and Pakistan. The whole > thing can be conducted under international guarantees to secure the > the process and its outcome. > Southasia desperately needs a new direction. And, sincere efforts on > the Kashmir question can be a very important beginning and aspect of > this shift. Southasians need to understand southasia is not made up of > states, but of peoples and their intersecting histories and > aspirations. We cannot let ourselves be seduced by the illusions and > the desires that the state's "super"-power has generated in us. > Junaid > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Tara Prakash wrote: > > Thanks Sonia. So the issue is more muddled than we make it out to be. > It will be helpful to hear Junaid's view on this. I am waiting. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" > To: "TaraPrakash" ; "Junaid" > Cc: "Sarai" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > The dispute involves the state of Jammu & Kashmir as it existed in 1947 and > included Kashmiris, people of Jammu & Reasi, Rajouri, Poonch & Doda, Ladakh, > Mirpur & Muzaffarabad, Gilgit & Baltistan. If you talk about solutions then > you really ought to be talking about the aspirations of all these people and > not simply 'which Kashmiris.' > > From: TaraPrakash > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:09 -0500 > To: Junaid > Cc: > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > Thanks for these solutions Junaid. Not that I will be able to solve this > old > > problem. > Just for the record, the intent of the second question "Which > > Kashmiris" was > > not mischief. If you think there is a single Kashmiri > > nationality, or > > unified Kashmiri voice, either you are self deluding, or just > > canceling the > > noise. > JKLF used to be a significant voice in J&K before the > > brutal Mujahaddins, in > > their ecstasy of having defeated USSR in Afghanistan, > > moved to J&K. From > > then on local Kashmiris had the taste of Taliban in their > > homes. Every > > dissent was mercilessly crushed. Professors were murdered. Women > > were told > > to stay at homes and if they dared come out, acid on their faces > > was their > > fate. Hindus were massacred, on some ocasions Sikhs were massacred > > and if > > that was not enough, peace loving Budhists were killed for being > > vocal. > > Coming back to question which Kashmiris and JKLF. Aren't they > > Kashmiris? But > > they are banned in Pakistan occupied, so-called Azad Kashmir. > > Aren't they > > Kashmiris? why do you have to single out Indian government? Are > > Kashmiris in > > POK free? > Those who are part of National conference or PDP, > > aren't they Kashmiris? > > Aren't they different from Mujahiddins? So the > > question still remains which > > Kashmiris? > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > "Junaid" > > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: > > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Dear Tara, > I quote you: "But > > isn't it time to move to specifics. What solution? > > Which Kashmiris?" End. > I > > absolutely agree that it is time to move to specifics. But your two > > follow-up > > questions, asked perhaps in good spirit, aren't the ones > > that will lead us to > > specifics. If anything they will further push us > > into a metaphysics of denial. > > I assume you know enough about Kashmir > > and are aware that there is no shortage > > of solutions. Indian > > government isn't even acknowledging that Kashmir is a > > political issue, > > and they have convinced its citizens that the only issue that > > remains > > is the elimination of "terrorism" i.e. people's resistance. The > > "right > > solutions" emerge in a democratic process of engagement in a free > > and > > fair environment. As you called them, the "chosen" representatives > > for > > Kashmiris, it is clear, have no legitimacy in Kashmir, which has made > it > > clear again that a democracy stripped of its substance cannot be > > forced down > > the throats of people to gloss over the crisis of state's > > legitimacy and > > authority. (I somehow believe that UN, if India allows > > that is, can go to > > "each Kashmiri" to figure out how to solve the > > problem). The first step would > > be to give Kashmiris the "ownership" of > > their problem, that is allow them to > > find the right solution with a > > guarantee that it will be accepted. > The second > > question is a little mischievous--"Which Kashmiris!" Can we > > really keep > > telling a suffering people that they don't exist? By > > asking this question, are > > you suggesting that there are no Kashmiris? > > If you believe that "the people" > > have to elect their representatives, > > how can you in the same breath deny the > > existence of those same > > people? > I guess the first "concrete suggestions" > > would be the dismantling of > > the draconian military and police apparatus from > > Kashmir: i.e. 1. > > remove the incredibly large and intensive build up of > > military and > > police forces from Kashmir; 2. remove draconian laws like AFSPA > > and > > Disturbed Areas Act etc, which give immunity to security agencies > involved > > in HR abuses; 3. Release political prisoners from jails; 4. > > Allow Kashmiris to > > peacefully express their dissent (remove > > restrictions on free speech and > > assembly of people); 5. Dismantle the > > stranglehold that the security agencies > > have over the everyday life of > > people through technics of surveillance and > > proliferation of threats. > > Once these steps are taken, we can move to the next > > ones. At least it > > will show that the Indian government is sincere in its > > efforts to > > solve the problem, and is not simply bidding time, hoping to > > tire > > people out. > Junaid > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Tara Prakash > > wrote: > "Kashmir is a political issue that needs to > be solved, with the full > involvement of Kashmiris." > Agreed. But isn't it > time to move to specifics. What solution? Which > Kashmiris? A democratic > exercise requires people to elect their > representatives who can talk on > their behalf. But those who are chosen, > are > found to be going "to any > extent to please their masters in Delhi" > I don't think the Indian govt or UN > can talk to every Kashmiri on this > earth > for the resolution of the > problem. > It will help people like me if there are some concrete suggestions > towards > resolution of the issue. One way of garnering support is to educate > people, > so that they can start suggesting their leaders and build a > climate > towards > resolution of the issue. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Junaid" > To: ; "Junaid" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:57 PM > Subject: > [Reader-list] Little Kashmiri boys arrested > > Dozens of young boys have > > been arrested across Kashmir under draconian > > laws over the last few weeks. > > The charges that have been filed against > > them range from "waging war > > against the state" to defiling "state > > honor". In recent months Indian > > military and police commanders have > > described protests in Kashmir as > > "agitational terrorism" and > > "non-violent terrorism" in order to justify > > violent clampdown on > > protests by Kashmiris. In the same period around 8 > > people, mostly > > teenagers, have been either shot to death or fatally injured > > by > > indiscriminate use of tear-gas shells. Over the last two years the > > number of dead in shootings is more than a hundred. Meanwhile > > thousands of > > people have been injured. Many of them will be left with > > permanent physical > > disabilities. The police authorities have banned > > any peaceful assembly of > > people. Many places in downtown Srinagar and > > other towns have reported > > police brutalities. Even the villages are > > not being spared. Only yesterday, > > mourning villagers were attacked by > > CRPF troopers in Redwani in South > > Kashmir. Dozens of them were injured > > by CRPF's indiscriminate firing. Most > > of the injuries were inflicted > > above the waist showing an intention to > > kill. > > India's dirty war in Kashmir has been going on for many years now, > > but > > in the last two years it has acquired a particularly cruel > > dimension. > > The systematic nature of brutal tactics is meant to discipline > > and > > demoralize Kashmir's struggling masses. At the same time, the Indian > > state has kept up the rhetoric of confidence building measures to > > deceive > > its own citizens. In this light, the move to allow Kashmiris > > in Azad > > Kashmir to return home is nothing new. This surrender policy > > has been there > > for many years, but is ceremonially dusted and brought > > back every few years > > to earn brownie points. > > National Conference government which has proved > > its inability to > > function without authorization from New Delhi, and can't > > even remove > > an erring official without Delhi's explicit approval, has > > sought to > > play it safe: i.e. to stay in power they will go to any extent > > to > > please their masters. In photo-ops Omar Abdullah is seen begging for > > leniency from Chidamabaram, but at home he has reinvigorated the cruel > > police apparatus his father put into place in mid-1990's. CRPF and > > Kashmir > > police has increased their level of savagery in recent months, > > perhaps in a > > bid to show that they can handle Kashmir without Indian > > army's help. > > Indian media has mostly blacked-out the grim news from Kashmir (apart > > from > > the few and far in between stories, like the ones below). It is > > time, the > > conscientious and rational Indian citizens form a solidarity > > with > > Kashmiris, disseminate widely the stories about Indian state's > > inhuman > > tactics in Kashmir, and build pressure on their government to > > stop human > > rights violations in Kashmir. And to accept the fact that > > Kashmir is a > > political issue that needs to be solved, with the full > > involvement of > > Kashmiris. > > _____________________ > Stone-pelting an act of war: J-K > > gov; > > Riyaz Wani > > > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Stone-pelting-an-act-of-war--J-K-govt/580232 > > The Jammu-Kashmir government has decided to arrest stone-pelters for > > Owaging war against the stateą, a crime punishable with death or life > > in > > jail. > > The state has already slapped the Public Safety Act against > > eight > > stone-pelters, all between 15 and 18 years old, over the past week > > while 16 youths from downtown Srinagar are being tried under section > > 121 of > > CrPC (waging war against the state). Sources in the state Home > > Department > > told The Indian Express that the government was ready with > > PSAs against ł20 > > more such youths˛. > > The 16 youths were produced before a Srinagar Court > > on Monday. Police > > sought their remand for eight days, which was soon > > granted by Judge > > Masarat Jabeen.The boys, the investigating officer told > > the court, > > were directly involved in pelting stones at police and > > security > > forces. > However, counsel for the accused Rafique Joo said > > the youths were held > > in random raids across the city and were not involved > > in > > stone-pelting. He opposed booking of youth under Section 121 of > > CrPC. > > J&K first started booking stone-pelters under the Public Safety > > Act > > during the 2008 Amarnath land row agitation. The first person to be > > booked was Nayeem Ahmad of Rainawari, Srinagar. Though he was released > > shortly after, Ahmad was again picked up in June last year during > > protests > > over the death of two women in Shopian. > > IGP, Kashmir, Farooq Ahmad said > > he was not in a position to give łthe > > exact number of youths˛ booked under > > PSA or Section 121 of CrPC. łI am > > out of station and donąt have the exact > > number,˛ Ahmad told The Indian > > Express. > Police say waging war against > > country, judge not impressed > > _____________ > Police say waging war > > against country, judge not impressed > > Peerzada Ashiq > > peer.mushtaq at hindustantimes.com > > Srinagar: Who is Zahoor Ahmad? shouted > > Masrat Jabeen, sitting on a > > raised platform in 14X14 room with three rows > > of chairs. łYes madam. > > Present madam˛, replied a boy standing among 16 > > jostled youth with red > > cheeks and red hands because of cold. > This is > > no classroom but a court hearing of 16 boys arrested on Sunday > > in downtown > > Srinagar for allegedly pelting stones at policemen. The > > police presented > > them before the court on Monday for extending their > > police remand. But > > after hearing the two sides, judge Jabeen sent the > > boys to judicial remand > > for 15 days. > > łHow did you know all the names of the arrested youth in > > advance?˛ > > judge Jabeen asked the investigation officer of the police. > > łThrough > > reliable sources,˛ replied the investigation officer. > łHow > > is it possible? I donąt know anyone of these boys. Who are these > > reliable > > sources?˛ asked judge Jabeen. To which the investigation > > officer, looking > > at the floor, said: łThey are active stone throwers, > > and involved for the > > last five years.˛ > > There was sudden commotion in the court room, when > > Zahid, one of the > > accused, interjected saying, łThis is for the first time > > we are in the > > lock up,˛ adding he was just 16 year old and a school-goer, > > who was on > > the bike when the police arrested him. > The boy, wearing a > > pair of jeans and jacket, started crying and are > > joined by others in the > > room, with the lawyer, Muhammad Rafiq Joo, > > requesting them to wipe tears > > and be mum. łDonąt worry justice will be > > done,˛ said Joo adding since Chief > > Minister Omar Abdullah told the > > media we are launching a crackdown against > > stone-pelters, the police > > are picking up anyone who comes in the way. > > The boys --- in the age group of 15 to 22 and brought to the court in > > heavy > > chains --- are facing the charges like the waging war against > > the state and > > insulting the national honour. The punishment includes > > life imprisonment. > > The boys have been arrested from downtown Srinagar > > and were presented > > before the court by the Nowhatta Police Station. > > Lawyer Joo contested > > that the police cannot impose the waging a war > > against the nation unless a > > magistrate has done an investigation in a > > case and the police cannot do it > > on their own. > > While the weeping boys in chains left the court room in a > > row, their > > relatives shake their hands. The boys keep pleading their > > innocence: > > łWe were not involved. They let go who do stone pelting and > > arrested > > us,˛ they said. > While a policeman shouted back: łThey have > > snatched our peace.˛ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & > > Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > ______________________ > > ___________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sun Feb 21 13:32:50 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:32:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MJ Akbar BLOG in TOI Message-ID: <000801cab2cc$45bf2df0$d13d89d0$@in> Dear sir, Bellow is what reputed journalist Mr. M. J. Akbar has to say on Indo-Pak talk. You don't need a sting operation to find out what Ms Rao will say. Defence minister A K Antony has already informed us that infiltration has not gone down, and cordite from Pune is still in the air. She has no option except to hammer away at terrorism and the "war by other means" that Pakistan launched after its failure to seize the Kashmir valley by irregular and then regular forces in 1947-48. The strategy for subversion was initiated by the same person who planned the first war, a Colonel Akbar Khan. He adopted the rather ambitious nom de plume "Tariq", after Tariq bin Ziad, Arab conqueror of Spain in 712. He wrote two papers after ceasefire on January 1, 1949, "What Next in Kashmir?" and "Keep the Pot Boiling in Abdullah's Kashmir". Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan sanctioned Rs 1 million to arm a "people's militia" in Indian Kashmir. The Abdullahs have moved into their third generation, but the blood in that pot has not stopped boiling. The outcome of the dialogue on February 25 will be determined not by what Ms Rao says but by what she hears. http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/TheSiegeWithin/entry/talk-without-h ope-so-there Sensible nations either go to war or negotiate peace; they don't sulk. So it is sensible for India and Pakistan to resume talks at a formal level. The tricky part is to discover what kind of talk makes sense. War is always much easier to start than peace. You need only a trumpet to launch hostilities. Peace requires a rather more complicated orchestra; there will be discordant notes from some insistent trombone; the bass could be playing a military march; all musicians might not read from the same sheet; and there is always the likelihood of liberal violins airing strains more relevant to heaven than to realists who live on earth. If the maestro-conductor tears his hair occasionally, you can understand why. The heavy breathing about the February 25 talks between foreign secretaries Nirupama Rao and Salman Bashir suggests that neither Indian nor Pakistani media, which sit in the front row and shape the response of the audience, have quite understood what a bilateral dialogue between hostile neighbours is all about. Each journalist is cranking up the decibel level around one question, and one question only: what will the diplomats say when they meet? You don't need a sting operation to find out what Ms Rao will say. Defence minister A K Antony has already informed us that infiltration has not gone down, and cordite from Pune is still in the air. She has no option except to hammer away at terrorism and the "war by other means" that Pakistan launched after its failure to seize the Kashmir valley by irregular and then regular forces in 1947-48. The strategy for subversion was initiated by the same person who planned the first war, a Colonel Akbar Khan. He adopted the rather ambitious nom de plume "Tariq", after Tariq bin Ziad, Arab conqueror of Spain in 712. He wrote two papers after ceasefire on January 1, 1949, "What Next in Kashmir?" and "Keep the Pot Boiling in Abdullah's Kashmir". Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan sanctioned Rs 1 million to arm a "people's militia" in Indian Kashmir. The Abdullahs have moved into their third generation, but the blood in that pot has not stopped boiling. The outcome of the dialogue on February 25 will be determined not by what Ms Rao says but by what she hears. No prizes for guessing what her counterpart will say: precisely the same thing that his ministry has been saying for six decades: Kashmir, Kashmir, Kashmir. In the old days, they were more focused and claimed that Kashmir belonged to Pakistan. These days they are a little more circumspect in letting "Azad Kashmiris" some leeway; but they are still certain that Kashmir does not belong to India. In the time left, Salman Bashir will talk about Indus waters, but that is a comparatively minor issue since India has, in principle, accepted the responsibility of an upper riparian state to share water with territory lower down. Disputes over quantum are really small potatoes. In the absence of real answers, the practice has been to resort to platitudes. Platitudes survive because they have latitude. The problem is that the flexibility of excuses has been fully exhausted. There is a tired ring to the deadpan explanation for terrorism: "we must address core issues", meaning Kashmir. There will be a me-too variation this time; an injured expression and the hapless suggestion that Pakistan too is a victim of terrorism. This risible argument does not bear examination. The fact that terrorists with another cause blow up Peshawar can hardly be justification for Pakistani establishment help to those who want to blow up Srinagar, or Mumbai, or Pune. As for Kashmir, Pakistan has signed two agreements, at Tashkent in 1966 and at Shimla in 1972, endorsing the ceasefire line of January 1, 1949 as the effective border: if anything, Tashkent was more specific than Shimla. A third treaty confirming this would end the dispute, but no one has suggested that this is on the agenda. Is there anything new to say or hear? Are we going to talk for the sake of talks? That may be better than not talking at all, but it would be useful to place a marker along the way to the conference hall. This is about civilians pretending to be civil, not about finding solutions. There is no solution apart from the status quo, and if the status quo were acceptable to Pakistan we would have had warmth and cooperation after 1972 - and, by now, dozens of authors trying to make money out of books on Pindia. Pindia, after all, has a nicer ring to it than Chindia, and it makes a more dramatic story than analysis of frosty neighbours secretly delighted that the Himalayas separate them. Let us talk without hope so that there may be hope for civility. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thanks Bipin Trivedi From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Feb 21 14:16:18 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:46:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslim Iphone Apps Message-ID: <13788215.1266741979145.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> amusing... Paul aka Dj Spooky ps, I'm not Muslim http://www.elanthemag.com/index.php/site/blog_detail/muslim_theres_an_app_for_that-nid829784504/ By Sara Elghobashy February 10, 2010 Type the word “Muslim” into an app finder and you’ll probably be overwhelmed by the number of applications you get as a result. It’s hard to decide which ones to purchase and which ones you can live without. But have no fear, elan is here to help you distinguish between the good, the bad and the ones that make you think, “Why?” Zabihah - The app based off Zabihah.com, the world’s largest halal restaurant database, allows you to easily locate halal restaurants, mosques and markets in your area using your iPhone. With everything from halal Mexican food to halal Japanese cuisine, your stomach will thank you for the wise decision to purchase this app. ZakahCalc - ZakahCalc helps you calculate zakat using built-in rules based on assets, liability, worth and nisab. It’s never been so easy to give just the right amount. Islamic Compass - There are so many prayer times and qibla applications out there but Islamic Compass combines both into one neatly packaged deal. The app offers two different athans, multiply backgrounds and themes and an easy qibla locator that uses the GPS system of your iPhone. MeccaLocator - Similar to Islamic Compass, this brand new app from Reza Aslan also gives you qibla directions, combined with customizable alerts for 3, 5 or 6 prayers throughout the day. An added bonus - a beautiful image of a carpet that rolls out on your screen during prayer time. iQuran - iQuran offers users the complete Quran with verse translation and recitation by Sheikh Husary, in addition to allowing you to perform a full text search of the Quran in the English translation. MuslimLocator - I know what you’re thinking; will this app help me find Muslims? Well, sort of? It will help you find a mosque in your specified area and you’re bound to find a Muslim in there somewhere...right? Masbaha - A digital tasbeeh app created for the extremely lazy. Now when you’re done praying, you can pull out your iPhone for a “unique and advanced” way to perform tasbeeh. It counts for you and will totally make it seem like you’re texting instead. FANtastic. Islamic Names - Having a baby and confused about what to name it? This app contains thousands of traditional names with meanings. And if you’re really indecisive, you can even shake for a random name, but be prepared for the sound of a baby’s laughter when you do. That’s not creepy at all. DoomsDay - Sound like a Harrison Ford movie? I think so too. This app contains information about the signs of the Day of Judgment and how these signs will occur. I wonder if it has a checklist option just so know when it’s getting really close. iHijab Camera - “This identity filter for your iPhone enables you to change your friends’ clothes to a hijab or burkha within seconds.” Just what every iPhone needs. And if that isn’t enough, the app is complete with all the orientalist backgrounds your heart can dream of. Isn’t that wonderful? Book of Menstruation - Need I say more? Contact the author: Email: sahrahbash at gmail.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/SahRahBash From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 14:58:28 2010 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:58:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Terror_That_Wasn=92t?= Message-ID: Terror That Wasn’t THE SPECIAL CELL of the Delhi Police was formed in 1986 as a counter-terrorism force. It shot into prominence in the late 1990s, claiming to have killed many terrorists and to have solved several cases. In time, some of its officers began to figure in extortion cases and dubious encounters. Says noted lawyer Prashant Bhushan: “Unfortunately, whenever the courts have found that they [the Special Cell] have been framing people by fabricating evidence, they have not suggested any action to be taken. Unless they are punished very severely by law, police officers will keep on framing innocents as terrorists.” Tellingly, over the last four months, lower courts in Delhi have acquitted nine “terrorists” arrested by the Special Cell. Four such “terrorists” were arrested after an encounter in southwest Delhi in March 2005. Police claimed they had averted a major terrorist attack on the Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun. Five years later, all four men were acquitted. BRIJESH PANDEY profiles the four terrorists who never were. ‘It Took Time To Sink In That The Stigma Is Gone’ DILAWAR KHAN, Maulana at Imdad-ul-Uloom Madrassa MASOOD AHMED, Imam at Baghwali Masjid THE SIGHT of an approaching policeman is enough to send shivers down the spine of Maulana Dilawar Khan and Imam Masood Ahmed and for good reason too. Dilawar, a teacher at the Imdad-ul-Uloom Madrassa in northeast Delhi’s Welcome area, and Masood, an Imam at the Baghwali Masjid barely 200 metres away, were called to the local police station in March 2005 and then told to visit the Delhi Police Special Cell’s office at Lodhi Colony in south Delhi for routine questioning. It would be five years before either was seen in public again. Branded as Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists plotting a suicide attack on the Indian Military Academy in Dehradun, the duo languished in jail for five years before a Patiala House Court judgement set them free last month for want of evidence. The court also criticised the Special Cell for its lapses in investigation and for misusing its powers. Dilawar and Masood were arrested solely on the basis of a statement by Hamid Hussain, an alleged Lashkar member, who claimed that a consignment of explosives meant for Pakistani terrorists had been kept in Dilawar’s custody. Hamid identified Masood and Dilawar and police claimed to have recovered a grenade and a Chinese pistol with 24 bullets from them. Dilawar recalls the questioning by the Special Cell. “I was too dazed to comprehend what was going on… all they asked me was if I knew Hamid. When I said no, I was tortured and asked the same question repeatedly. I kept on denying. I was told I would be taught a lesson I wouldn’t forget. They also forced me to sign on a blank paper.” Masood has a similar story. “First I was asked to identify Hamid and then I was asked to explain the plot. I had no clue what to answer.” Matters swiftly got worse. “We were paraded like animals in front of cameras. The [Special] Cell officers were jostling with each other to stand next to ‘the terrorist’ so that they could also figure prominently in the picture. They also asked me to pose for the camera,” says Dilawar. “My faith in God was tested at that moment. What did I do to deserve this?” Deserted by friends and relatives immediately after their arrest, Dilawar and Masood patiently waited for their case to come up for trial. The judgement took a long time in coming, but when it was delivered on January 8 this year, it acquitted them of all charges and demolished the entire Special Cell case. Additional Sessions Judge Dharmesh Sharma said, “The evidence given by the prosecution does not inspire confidence,” adding that there was no evidence that Dilawar was living in the house police arrested him from. Picking further holes in the police case, Justice Sharma said Inspector [Special Cell] Ramesh Lamba, who was part of the team that allegedly raided the Welcome area and picked up Dilawar and Masood within half-an-hour of each other, “did not utter a single word about the recovery” of arms from Dilawar’s house. “What was most surprising was the statement of Inspector Ran Singh who stated that after the arrest [of Dilawar] the Special Cell team went back to their office… [before returning to arrest Masood from almost the same spot],” adds Justice Sharma “This is in contradiction with the statement given by the Special Cell officers. It is not believable that if the police party had gone to arrest both the persons in the same locality, it opted to include Ran Singh in one and not the other.” Indicting the police further, the judge says: “It is also very doubtful that Hamid Hussain was at all involved in identifying” the accused since “his name was not mentioned anywhere in the daily [police] diary”. Life has come a full circle for the maulana and the imam. “When I came out of jail, I felt I am in a strange world. It took time to sink in that the stigma of being branded a terrorist has gone,” says Dilawar. Masood only smiles and keeps thanking God. But their euphoria was shortlived. The very next day, some policemen visited Dilawar’s house, asking him to visit the local police station. “I can’t tell you how scared I felt. In a split second, the entire trauma of the last five years flashed before me,” says Dilawar whose lawyer, anticipating unnecessary harassment, advised him to keep away. “Despite the fact that I have been given a clean chit, the fear of being picked up again remains. I think this fear will go only with my death,” he says ruefully. ‘Career Ruined By Case Full Of Holes’ HAROON RASHID, Mechanical engineer HAROON RASHID had no idea that his plan to go to Singapore for a job would backfire so badly. A mechanical engineer from Bihar, Haroon had quit his job at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in December 2004 to join Singapore based company, initially for a 22-month preparatory course. When he returned to India on May 16th, 2005 for a visit home, he was picked up by the Special Cell from the Indira Gandhi International Airport, New Delhi. He was charged with financing a conspiracy to carry out a suicide attack on the Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun. According to the Special Cell, Delhi Police, Haroon had twice remitted a total of Rs 49,000 from Singapore through Western Union Money Transfer on January 10th and 15th, 2005, to his brother Mohammad Yunis, who had subsequently passed it on to Shams, one of the three killed in an encounter in an apartment in Uttam Nagar in March 2005. Apparently, Haroon had also confessed that he used to get money from his Pakistani mentor Abdul Aziz. They also claimed to have 76 pages of e-mail transcripts from Haroon, under the pseudonym ‘Farooq’, in which he had sent coded instructions to other terrorists for future action. The police termed Haroon’s arrest as a major breakthrough. But when Haroon Rashid’s case came up for trial, a very different picture emerged — that of abuse of power at the hands of Special Cell officers entrusted with the task of preventing terrorist attacks. According to MS Khan, Haroon’s lawyer, “He was from a very poor family and hence had to take Rs 1 lakh as loan from his uncle to go to Singapore. On reaching there, when he found out that he would not need so much money, he sent Rs 49,000 back to his brother, so that part of the loan could be repaid. How was he to know that this remittance will mark him as a Lashkar financier?” The case presented by the Special Cell fell apart in the court. Yunis denied giving any money to Shams, the slain terrorist. The police could not produce any independent evidence linking Haroon to any Lashkar operative. Even the muchtouted e-mails recovered from Haroon could not withstand the scrutiny of cross-examination. “Inspector Kailash had deposed in the court that on 18th May, 2005, that he had cracked the password of the e-mail which Haroon had been using to contact his handler in Pakistan, and had taken the printouts on the same day,” said MS Khan, “But Inspector Badrish Dutt of the same Special Cell admitted that on May 13th , 2005 (five days before the claimed breakthrough happened), Haroon had already given him the password of his email account. Badrish deposed that Inspector Kailash was also present during the interrogation. This clearly proves that the police fabricated the email records in those five days.” The court was scathing about Inspector Kailash’s silence and lies in the court. Even the 76 pages of printouts supposedly taken on May 13 were neither produced in the court nor attached to the chargesheet. They weren’t even mentioned in the police diary. Haroon Rashid was acquitted by the court but if his advocate is to be believed, the fear of being picked up again remains high. And it will be quite a while, before his faith in the police is restored. ‘Who Will Return My Youth, Sir?’ IFTEKHAR MALLICK, Biotechnology student in Dehradun THINGS ARE finally looking up for Mohammad Iftekhar Ahsan Mallick, five years after he was jailed on charges of being a Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist plotting to carry out a suicide attack on the Indian Military Academy (IMA) in Dehradun. Iftekhar, 26, was a secondyear biotechnology student at Dehradun’s Dolphin Institute of Biomedical & Natural Sciences when he was picked up from his house by the Special Cell of Delhi Police on March 7, 2005. At a news conference, the Special Cell claimed to have recovered a diary containing inflammatory passages from the Quran, a note that spoke of avenging the 2002 Gujarat riots and a pass to an IMA parade. Police also said Iftekhar had been in touch with the slain Pakistani terrorist Shams who had motivated him to attend Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) meetings in his native Bihar. It was said Iftekhar had been referred to as “Shahid” in Shams’ diary and that the Lashkar had sponsored his education. Iftekhar kept pleading his innocence but to no avail. It was left to Additional Sessions Judge Dharmesh Sharma to point out the Special Cell’s lapses in investigation while acquitting Iftekhar of all charges. Justice Sharma termed it “most surprising” that Ramesh Sharma, Inspector of the Special Cell had deposed that Inspector Kailash Singhal Bisht had visited Dehradun and seized the IMA pass from Iftekhar only for Bisht — who wrote the seizure memo — to admit during cross-examination that he had never gone there at all. On being asked how he recovered the pass and wrote out the seizure memo, Bisht could offer no explanation. Damningly, Iftekhar told the court that he had been forced by the Special Cell to write out the note about avenging Gujarat. He admitted to having written out passages from the Quran but said they were not inflammatory in any way. Justice Sharma also found it surprising that Iftekhar’s landlord, Bhagat Ram Gulyani, was not contacted at the time of the arrest and seizure of evidence. Nor was there any other public witness. On cross-examination, it came to light that inspectors Sanjay Dutt and Badrish Dutt, who allegedly seized Iftekhar’s diary and the note seeking vengeance, had never visited Dehradun. What’s more the Special Cell officers kept contradicting each other about the note allegedly written by Iftekhar. One inspector said it was written in Hindi while another said it was in English. The court also said there was no independent evidence to substantiate that Iftekhar was a Lashkar member or knew any of the militants killed in the March 2005 Uttam Nagar encounter in southwest Delhi. Even the disclosure statements of the other accused did not mention Iftekhar even once. Mere possession of an IMA pass did not indicate any motive; moreover, the pass was five months old and the parade had already been held. The ordeal has finally ended for Iftekhar. With his sister about to get married, 2010 promises to be a much better year for the former student. But the fear of police remains ever present. brijesh at tehelka.com >From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 7, Issue 08, Dated February 27, 2010 From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 21 18:29:52 2010 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:59:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002201030q1348387an4736a5799f7f53c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <632522.14976.qm@web112114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Durani JI, It seems to me an innocuous message from the poem that some people from the neighbouring country hurl bombs at us and we don't retaliate. Even with a couple of times readings, I don't get the message what Mr Sengupta is trying to imply.There is a saying in Punjabi when a MIL wants to scold her DIL and does not find a valid reason to do so she would say" Atta gundhate hue hilti kyon hai tu." meaning "Why do you move your body when kneading flour".No sceptics for anyone intended please. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Pawan Durani wrote: > From: Pawan Durani > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:00 AM > I wish some people understood poetry > ..... > > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > wrote: > > Aditya, > > > > Are you, or the 16 year-old Sakshi, whose juvenilia > you have > > subjected us to, implying that in your 'padosi ke > ghar' (neighbouring > > house - a not so veiled reference to the neighbouring > country, > > Pakistan) children play with bombs? > > > > For the sake of our -Hindi speaking readers, the > 'poem' by '16 year > > old Sakshi' that Aditya Raj Kaul has now sent us - > translates, > > (roughly) as follows. I have read this poem very > carefully. I take > > very serious objection to the fact that it suggests > that Pakistani > > children are in some ways responsible for terrorist > atrocities in > > India, specificially, in Pune. > > > > "...In my neighbour's house > > children play with bombs, > > and in mine, they play with a ball > > everyday, just like this, they play with pleasure > > sometimes, the balls finds their way into their house > > and their bombs find their way into mine > > this is what happened yesterday @ Pune > > they don't give us back our balls > > we don't give them back their bombs > > they are fortunate... > > and we...." > > > > Seriously Aditya, get a life, at least do not stoop so > low as to > > imply, with this disgusting piece of innuendo, that > Pakistani > > children are terrorists. > > > > At least let us leave children alone. > > > > Enraged and horrified at the amoral, cynical abyss > that you inhabit, > > and that too at a relatively young age. > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 20-Feb-10, at 1:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > >> Mr. Vij, > >> > >> I campaigned on roads with public, so media came > out to support. I > >> felt the > >> brunt of this; as cases were slapped against me > for protesting. > >> When you > >> can't argue Mr. Vij, you attack 'activists' > personally on public > >> forums such > >> as these. > >> > >> My campaign however wasn't discussed in the Board > meeting of some > >> Multi-National Company. My campaign didn't have > commercials on > >> television, > >> radio and newspapers. > >> > >> It seems you are an expert on 'selling' campaigns. > Wonder how that > >> happens! > >> Have you shifted your profession lately? Please do > explain to us list > >> members in detail. > >> > >> Don't mix issues without thinking. It becomes > cheap. > >> > >> As the moderators have the liberty to trash a > value addition to the > >> list. So > >> do I have the right to counter 'trash' and > 'propaganda' on this list. > >> > >> Dear Shuddhaji > >> > >> A 16 year of Sakshi sent me these lines a couple > of days back - > >> > >> मेरे पड़ोस वाले घर > में , > >> बच्चे बम से खेलते > है... > >> > >> और मेरे बच्चे यहाँ > गेंद > >> से... > >> > >> हर रोज़ युही मज़े > से > >> खेलते है.. > >> > >> अक्सर गेंद उनके घर > में > >> जाती है.. > >> > >> और उनके बम मेरे घर > में > >> आते है... > >> > >> कल भी एसा ही दिन था, > @pune > >> > >> पडोसी गेंद लोटाते > नहीं, > >> > >> और हम भी उनके बम > लोटाते > >> नहीं ... > >> > >> वो खुश किस्मत है ... > >> > >> और हम .... > >> > >> thanks > >> > >> Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Shivam Vij > शिवम् > >> विज् > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Shri Aditya Raj Kaulji has for some weeks now > been telling the world > >>> about how Aman ki Asha has to do with m-words > like "media > >>> market-management". Has he no sense of irony? > he, the master of > >>> "media > >>> market-managment" campaigns of various causes? > Jab tumhara campaign > >>> bikta hai toh peace, kisi aur ka toh market? > Kuch to sharam karon. > >>> > >>> On 17 February 2010 17:21, Aditya Raj Kaul > > >>> wrote: > >>>> Dear Shri Shuddhabrata Senguptaji > >>>> > >>>> Namaskar > >>>> > >>>> I have merely forwarded a reaction from a > common Indian to the > >>>> recent > >>>> developments of 'Aman Ki Asha' around. I > can see you agitated. > >>>> Wonder > >>> what > >>>> makes you so uncomfortable! Is it the > truth of Islamic-terrorism > >>>> or the > >>>> engagement politics and media > market-management of Peace? > >>>> > >>>> It hardly matters to me how a godamn 'My > Name Is Khan' does at > >>>> the box > >>>> office. I condenm the protests against it. > However, terrorism > >>>> matters to > >>> me > >>>> and every Indian not how much money a > producer makes out of made-up > >>>> publicity. We don't want protection of a > bloody movie; we want > >>>> security > >>> for > >>>> citizens of this country. > >>>> > >>>> You have yet again displayed intolerance > and abused my right to > >>> participate > >>>> in this so called 'Liberal' forum. I am > not facing this for the > >>>> first > >>> time. > >>>> It has become usual for me. Wonder if I > calculate the wastage of > >>>> time to > >>> us > >>>> by some of the rhetoric of far extremist, > intolerant and left > >>>> lunatic > >>>> fringe. > >>>> > >>>> Have tolerance in letter and spirit. We > have heard enough of your > >>>> fake > >>> Batla > >>>> House and several other such theories. > What happened to them, if > >>>> I may > >>> ask? > >>>> > >>>> Pakistan is suffering from something which > it initiated decades > >>>> ago. It > >>> will > >>>> continue to burn. I never objected to > views from Pakistani > >>>> public. Though > >>>> Kashmir can never be on dialogue table > with Pakistan. Nor can it > >>>> be with > >>>> terrorists who some glorify in this > forum. > >>>> > >>>> Congrats to you and other co-founders of > Sarai, which completed a > >>>> decade > >>>> recently. I pray for more, patience, > tolerance and flow of rational > >>> thought > >>>> to the Sarai. > >>>> > >>>> And hope you hold/delete/block less/none > of our e-mails from now > >>>> onwards. > >>>> Even that may be abuse of liberty, > something you are very well > >>>> versed > >>> with > >>>> yourself. > >>>> > >>>> I don't want this this to turn into a > relay e-mail exchange as has > >>> happened > >>>> in the past. > >>>> > >>>> regards > >>>> > >>>> 2010/2/17 Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >>>> > >>>>> Aditya, > >>>>> > >>>>> I regret that you have once again > abused the space of liberty on > >>>>> this > >>> list > >>>>> by forwarding this idiotic poem, which > I have wasted my time by > >>>>> reading. > >>>>> > >>>>> I am normally not a fan of the Times > of India, or the Jang Group of > >>>>> Newspapers, but, I have to say, that > the steady stream of > >>>>> opposition > >>> that > >>>>> their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems > to be gathering from the > >>>>> usual > >>>>> suspects makes me even more interested > in what the 'Aman ki Asha' > >>> initiative > >>>>> is all about. I sincerely hope that it > sets a trend, and that other > >>> media > >>>>> corporations and other agencies mirror > it by setting up their own > >>>>> initiatives for sustaining the > resources of peace in South Asia, > >>>>> and > >>>>> especially between India and Pakistan, > in these difficult times. > >>>>> > >>>>> Having tasted a bitter defeat after > attempting their thuggery on > >>>>> the 'My > >>>>> Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right > is now seeking a > >>>>> fruitless second > >>>>> wind, by riding the waves of the > regrettable bomb blast that > >>>>> occured in > >>> the > >>>>> German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to > surf this wave is > >>>>> pathetic. The > >>>>> xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, > and no amount of impotent > >>>>> roaring > >>> from > >>>>> Matoshtree will make it walk again. > >>>>> > >>>>> I find the poem that you sent, > strongly objectionable, because > >>>>> it makes > >>> no > >>>>> attempt to distinguish between > different kinds of opinion and > >>>>> publics in > >>>>> Pakistan. > >>>>> > >>>>> The poem says - > >>>>> > >>>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi > jaane qurbaan, > >>>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki > haiwan. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> For those who do not understand Hindi. > These lines can be > >>>>> translated as > >>>>> follows - > >>>>> > >>>>> "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, > lives were sacrificed > >>>>> In their hearts, Paki monsters > rejoiced" > >>>>> > >>>>> I am aware of the fact that time and > again, whenever terrorist > >>> atrocities > >>>>> occur in India, a significant section > of Pakistani political > >>>>> society > >>> condemn > >>>>> acts of terrorism in no uncertain > terms.  Many people in India > >>>>> do the > >>> same > >>>>> when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To > lump all Pakistanis (or > >>>>> for that > >>>>> matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who > 'rejoice in their hearts' > >>>>> when > >>> loss > >>>>> of life occurs, is disgusting. I find > your endorsement of this > >>> disgusting > >>>>> sentiment shameful. > >>>>> > >>>>> There is a very strong body of public > opinion in Pakistan that > >>>>> wants > >>> peace > >>>>> in South Asia, and realizes that peace > is the only way forward in > >>> Pakistan. > >>>>> They act vigilantly against > war-mongers and preachers of > >>>>> prejudice in > >>>>> Pakistan, exactly as many of us act > vigilantly against the > >>>>> constituency > >>> that > >>>>> advocates permanent aggression here. > That includes our vigilance > >>>>> against > >>>>> your hate filled agenda. > >>>>> > >>>>> Whenever an atrocity like what > happened in Pune occurs, I find > >>>>> that the > >>>>> constituency of rabid right-wing > nationalism comes crawling out > >>>>> like > >>> maggots > >>>>> to feast on the dead. As if they were > waiting for tragedy to > >>>>> strike to > >>> once > >>>>> again find their reason for > existence. > >>>>> > >>>>> Have none of these people any shame? > Have you none at all? > >>>>> > >>>>> Shuddha > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj > Kaul wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message > ---------- > >>>>> From: Irma Razdan > >>>>> Date: 2010/2/17 > >>>>> Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA > >>>>> To: > >>>>> > >>>>> For my Hindi speaking followers, this > is a poem that was > >>>>> authored by a > >>> mod > >>>>> of a forum which is my frequent haunt. > It is a take on the > >>>>> recent 'Aman > >>> ki > >>>>> Asha' program by the Times of India > and Jang group of Pakistan, > >>>>> which is > >>>>> supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace > project. Newbies, please refer > >>>>> to link. > >>>>> > >>>>> घर घर में आज > जगती है, हर > >>>>> सुबह अमन की > आशा, > >>>>> टाइम्स ऑफ > इंडिया और > >>>>> दैनिक जंग का, > देखो नया > >>>>> तमाशा, > >>>>> > >>>>> पीठ में ख़ंजर > भोंका > >>>>> जिनने, मानवता > को ही छला, > >>>>> आज बोलते चले > हैं वोही, > >>>>> कैसी शांति की > भाषा, > >>>>> > >>>>> ज़मीन के लालच > को धर्म > >>>>> का मुखौटा > पहना, > >>>>> जिन जल्लादों > ने छीना > >>>>> भारत माँ का > गहना, > >>>>> आज उन्ही से > रखनी होगी, > >>>>> हमको प्रेम की > अभिलाषा > >>>>> वाह रे टाइम्स > ऑफ > >>>>> इंडिया, क्या > खूब है तेरी > >>>>> आशा. > >>>>> > >>>>> देखो कैप्टन > कालिया, > >>>>> ऐसा हुआ आपका > बलिदान, > >>>>> आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु > और क़सब > >>>>> को शायद मिल > जाये जीवनदान, > >>>>> छब्बीस-ग्यारह > दोहराने > >>>>> को बेचैन हैं > जिनके > >>>>> जेहादी, > >>>>> दोस्ती का राग > सुना रहे, > >>>>> वही कियानी, > ज़रदारी और > >>>>> गीलानी, > >>>>> कौआ चले हंस की > चाल, देखो > >>>>> इनकी मीठी > भाषा, > >>>>> हमें दोस्ती का > पाठ > >>>>> पढ़ाएंगे, अब > सूजा अहमद > >>>>> पाशा. > >>>>> > >>>>> हमारे अपने > नेताओं ने, > >>>>> देश को भी नहीं > बख़्शा > >>>>> नपुंसक से भी > कम पौरुष > >>>>> जिनमें, वो > करेंगे देश की > >>>>> रक्षा? > >>>>> बातचीत के > ज़रिये ये, > >>>>> मिटा देंगे > सारे भेद > >>>>> आधा कश्मीर > खोने का, > >>>>> इनको ज़रा नहीं > खेद, > >>>>> राष्ट्र को > किया > >>>>> लज्जित, दी > शर्म-अल- > >>>>> शेख़ में > निराशा, > >>>>> समझे नहीं हम > किसने लिखी > >>>>> आख़िर उस > दस्तावेज़ की > >>>>> भाषा. > >>>>> कब तक जयचंदों > को जनती > >>>>> रहेगी हे माता! > >>>>> कब तक तेरे > बच्चों को > >>>>> होती रहेगी > हताशा, > >>>>> > >>>>> आतंकवाद की आग > में जब जल > >>>>> रहा है > पाकिस्तान, > >>>>> ऐसी हालत में > इनके > >>>>> हृदय में जागा > है इंसान, > >>>>> दिल्ली मुंबई > अहमदाबाद > >>>>> ने जब की थीं > जानें > >>>>> क़ुर्बान, > >>>>> मन ही मन खुश > होते थे यही > >>>>> पाकी हैवान, > >>>>> देखो > भारतवासियों, रखना > >>>>> इतना ध्यान, > >>>>> > राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ > >>>>> में ही सदा > देना तुम कमान, > >>>>> झूठे > धर्म-निरपक्षों से > >>>>> रहना तुम > सावधान, > >>>>> वोट बैंक बनकर > कभी मत > >>>>> करना मतदान. > >>>>> > >>>>> बोस, पटेल, > सावरकर ने, > >>>>> जिस देश को है > तराशा, > >>>>> लूट ना ले उसको > फिर, यह > >>>>> झूठी अमन की > आशा. > >>>>> घर घर में आज > जगती है, हर > >>>>> सुबह अमन की > आशा, > >>>>> टाइम्स ऑफ > इंडिया और > >>>>> दैनिक जंग का, > देखो नया > >>>>> तमाशा. > >>>>> > >>>>> English Transliteration: > >>>>> > >>>>> Aman Ki Aasha > >>>>> > >>>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har > subah aman ki aasha, > >>>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, > dekho naya tamaasha, > >>>>> > >>>>> Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, > manavta ko hi chhala, > >>>>> aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi > shanti ki bhaasha, > >>>>> > >>>>> zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta > pehna, > >>>>> jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka > gehna, > >>>>> aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki > abhilaasha, > >>>>> wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai > teri Aasha. > >>>>> > >>>>> Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka > balidaan, > >>>>> Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad > mil jaaye jeevandaan, > >>>>> Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, > bechain hain jinkay jehadi, > >>>>> hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi > Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani > >>>>> Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki > meethi bhaasha, > >>>>> hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab > Sooja Ahmed Pasha. > >>>>> > >>>>> Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi > baksha, > >>>>> Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh > karenge desh ki raksha? > >>>>> baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge > saare bhed, > >>>>> aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara > nahi khed, > >>>>> Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di > Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, > >>>>> samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir > us dastavez ki bhasha. > >>>>> Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he > maata, > >>>>> Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi > hataasha. > >>>>> > >>>>> Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha > hai Pakistan, > >>>>> Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, > jaaga hai insaan, > >>>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi > jaane qurbaan, > >>>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki > haiwan. > >>>>> Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna > dhyan, > >>>>> Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada > dana tum kamaan, > >>>>> Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna > tom saavdhaan, > >>>>> vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna > matdaan. > >>>>> > >>>>> Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko > hai taraasha, > >>>>> loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman > ki aasha. > >>>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har > subah aman ki aasha, > >>>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, > dekho naya tamaasha. > >>>>> > >>>>> Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi > >>>>> > >>>>>  ------------------------------ > >>>>> > _________________________________________ > >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list > on media and the city. > >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >>>>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >>>>> Raqs Media Collective > >>>>> shuddha at sarai.net > >>>>> www.sarai.net > >>>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Aditya Raj Kaul > >>>> > >>>> Freelance Writer > >>>> > >>>> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 18:32:51 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:32:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <632522.14976.qm@web112114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a71002201030q1348387an4736a5799f7f53c9@mail.gmail.com> <632522.14976.qm@web112114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002210502j5cb640e8h8e58a7390a4657af@mail.gmail.com> Malik Saab "No sceptics for anyone intended please." Iska matlab kya hai? Thoda samjhayenge anupam On 2/21/10, A.K. Malik wrote: > Dear Durani JI, > It seems to me an innocuous message from the poem that some > people from the neighbouring country hurl bombs at us and we don't > retaliate. Even with a couple of times readings, I don't get the message > what Mr Sengupta is trying to imply.There is a saying in Punjabi when a MIL > wants to scold her DIL and does not find a valid reason to do so she would > say" Atta gundhate hue hilti kyon hai tu." meaning "Why do you move your > body when kneading flour".No sceptics for anyone intended please. > Regards, > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Pawan Durani wrote: > >> From: Pawan Durani >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:00 AM >> I wish some people understood poetry >> ..... >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> wrote: >> > Aditya, >> > >> > Are you, or the 16 year-old Sakshi, whose juvenilia >> you have >> > subjected us to, implying that in your 'padosi ke >> ghar' (neighbouring >> > house - a not so veiled reference to the neighbouring >> country, >> > Pakistan) children play with bombs? >> > >> > For the sake of our -Hindi speaking readers, the >> 'poem' by '16 year >> > old Sakshi' that Aditya Raj Kaul has now sent us - >> translates, >> > (roughly) as follows. I have read this poem very >> carefully. I take >> > very serious objection to the fact that it suggests >> that Pakistani >> > children are in some ways responsible for terrorist >> atrocities in >> > India, specificially, in Pune. >> > >> > "...In my neighbour's house >> > children play with bombs, >> > and in mine, they play with a ball >> > everyday, just like this, they play with pleasure >> > sometimes, the balls finds their way into their house >> > and their bombs find their way into mine >> > this is what happened yesterday @ Pune >> > they don't give us back our balls >> > we don't give them back their bombs >> > they are fortunate... >> > and we...." >> > >> > Seriously Aditya, get a life, at least do not stoop so >> low as to >> > imply, with this disgusting piece of innuendo, that >> Pakistani >> > children are terrorists. >> > >> > At least let us leave children alone. >> > >> > Enraged and horrified at the amoral, cynical abyss >> that you inhabit, >> > and that too at a relatively young age. >> > >> > Shuddha >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 20-Feb-10, at 1:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > >> >> Mr. Vij, >> >> >> >> I campaigned on roads with public, so media came >> out to support. I >> >> felt the >> >> brunt of this; as cases were slapped against me >> for protesting. >> >> When you >> >> can't argue Mr. Vij, you attack 'activists' >> personally on public >> >> forums such >> >> as these. >> >> >> >> My campaign however wasn't discussed in the Board >> meeting of some >> >> Multi-National Company. My campaign didn't have >> commercials on >> >> television, >> >> radio and newspapers. >> >> >> >> It seems you are an expert on 'selling' campaigns. >> Wonder how that >> >> happens! >> >> Have you shifted your profession lately? Please do >> explain to us list >> >> members in detail. >> >> >> >> Don't mix issues without thinking. It becomes >> cheap. >> >> >> >> As the moderators have the liberty to trash a >> value addition to the >> >> list. So >> >> do I have the right to counter 'trash' and >> 'propaganda' on this list. >> >> >> >> Dear Shuddhaji >> >> >> >> A 16 year of Sakshi sent me these lines a couple >> of days back - >> >> >> >> मेरे पड़ोस वाले घर >> में , >> >> बच्चे बम से खेलते >> है... >> >> >> >> और मेरे बच्चे यहाँ >> गेंद >> >> से... >> >> >> >> हर रोज़ युही मज़े >> से >> >> खेलते है.. >> >> >> >> अक्सर गेंद उनके घर >> में >> >> जाती है.. >> >> >> >> और उनके बम मेरे घर >> में >> >> आते है... >> >> >> >> कल भी एसा ही दिन था, >> @pune >> >> >> >> पडोसी गेंद लोटाते >> नहीं, >> >> >> >> और हम भी उनके बम >> लोटाते >> >> नहीं ... >> >> >> >> वो खुश किस्मत है ... >> >> >> >> और हम .... >> >> >> >> thanks >> >> >> >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Shivam Vij >> शिवम् >> >> विज् >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Shri Aditya Raj Kaulji has for some weeks now >> been telling the world >> >>> about how Aman ki Asha has to do with m-words >> like "media >> >>> market-management". Has he no sense of irony? >> he, the master of >> >>> "media >> >>> market-managment" campaigns of various causes? >> Jab tumhara campaign >> >>> bikta hai toh peace, kisi aur ka toh market? >> Kuch to sharam karon. >> >>> >> >>> On 17 February 2010 17:21, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> Dear Shri Shuddhabrata Senguptaji >> >>>> >> >>>> Namaskar >> >>>> >> >>>> I have merely forwarded a reaction from a >> common Indian to the >> >>>> recent >> >>>> developments of 'Aman Ki Asha' around. I >> can see you agitated. >> >>>> Wonder >> >>> what >> >>>> makes you so uncomfortable! Is it the >> truth of Islamic-terrorism >> >>>> or the >> >>>> engagement politics and media >> market-management of Peace? >> >>>> >> >>>> It hardly matters to me how a godamn 'My >> Name Is Khan' does at >> >>>> the box >> >>>> office. I condenm the protests against it. >> However, terrorism >> >>>> matters to >> >>> me >> >>>> and every Indian not how much money a >> producer makes out of made-up >> >>>> publicity. We don't want protection of a >> bloody movie; we want >> >>>> security >> >>> for >> >>>> citizens of this country. >> >>>> >> >>>> You have yet again displayed intolerance >> and abused my right to >> >>> participate >> >>>> in this so called 'Liberal' forum. I am >> not facing this for the >> >>>> first >> >>> time. >> >>>> It has become usual for me. Wonder if I >> calculate the wastage of >> >>>> time to >> >>> us >> >>>> by some of the rhetoric of far extremist, >> intolerant and left >> >>>> lunatic >> >>>> fringe. >> >>>> >> >>>> Have tolerance in letter and spirit. We >> have heard enough of your >> >>>> fake >> >>> Batla >> >>>> House and several other such theories. >> What happened to them, if >> >>>> I may >> >>> ask? >> >>>> >> >>>> Pakistan is suffering from something which >> it initiated decades >> >>>> ago. It >> >>> will >> >>>> continue to burn. I never objected to >> views from Pakistani >> >>>> public. Though >> >>>> Kashmir can never be on dialogue table >> with Pakistan. Nor can it >> >>>> be with >> >>>> terrorists who some glorify in this >> forum. >> >>>> >> >>>> Congrats to you and other co-founders of >> Sarai, which completed a >> >>>> decade >> >>>> recently. I pray for more, patience, >> tolerance and flow of rational >> >>> thought >> >>>> to the Sarai. >> >>>> >> >>>> And hope you hold/delete/block less/none >> of our e-mails from now >> >>>> onwards. >> >>>> Even that may be abuse of liberty, >> something you are very well >> >>>> versed >> >>> with >> >>>> yourself. >> >>>> >> >>>> I don't want this this to turn into a >> relay e-mail exchange as has >> >>> happened >> >>>> in the past. >> >>>> >> >>>> regards >> >>>> >> >>>> 2010/2/17 Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >>>> >> >>>>> Aditya, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I regret that you have once again >> abused the space of liberty on >> >>>>> this >> >>> list >> >>>>> by forwarding this idiotic poem, which >> I have wasted my time by >> >>>>> reading. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I am normally not a fan of the Times >> of India, or the Jang Group of >> >>>>> Newspapers, but, I have to say, that >> the steady stream of >> >>>>> opposition >> >>> that >> >>>>> their 'Aman Ki Asha' initiative seems >> to be gathering from the >> >>>>> usual >> >>>>> suspects makes me even more interested >> in what the 'Aman ki Asha' >> >>> initiative >> >>>>> is all about. I sincerely hope that it >> sets a trend, and that other >> >>> media >> >>>>> corporations and other agencies mirror >> it by setting up their own >> >>>>> initiatives for sustaining the >> resources of peace in South Asia, >> >>>>> and >> >>>>> especially between India and Pakistan, >> in these difficult times. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Having tasted a bitter defeat after >> attempting their thuggery on >> >>>>> the 'My >> >>>>> Name is Khan' issue, the lunatic right >> is now seeking a >> >>>>> fruitless second >> >>>>> wind, by riding the waves of the >> regrettable bomb blast that >> >>>>> occured in >> >>> the >> >>>>> German Bakery in Pune. Your effort to >> surf this wave is >> >>>>> pathetic. The >> >>>>> xenophobia agenda is dead and buried, >> and no amount of impotent >> >>>>> roaring >> >>> from >> >>>>> Matoshtree will make it walk again. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I find the poem that you sent, >> strongly objectionable, because >> >>>>> it makes >> >>> no >> >>>>> attempt to distinguish between >> different kinds of opinion and >> >>>>> publics in >> >>>>> Pakistan. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The poem says - >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi >> jaane qurbaan, >> >>>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki >> haiwan. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> For those who do not understand Hindi. >> These lines can be >> >>>>> translated as >> >>>>> follows - >> >>>>> >> >>>>> "When in Delhi, Mumbai and Ahmedabad, >> lives were sacrificed >> >>>>> In their hearts, Paki monsters >> rejoiced" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I am aware of the fact that time and >> again, whenever terrorist >> >>> atrocities >> >>>>> occur in India, a significant section >> of Pakistani political >> >>>>> society >> >>> condemn >> >>>>> acts of terrorism in no uncertain >> terms.  Many people in India >> >>>>> do the >> >>> same >> >>>>> when terrorism occurs in Pakistan. To >> lump all Pakistanis (or >> >>>>> for that >> >>>>> matter, all Indians) as 'monsters' who >> 'rejoice in their hearts' >> >>>>> when >> >>> loss >> >>>>> of life occurs, is disgusting. I find >> your endorsement of this >> >>> disgusting >> >>>>> sentiment shameful. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> There is a very strong body of public >> opinion in Pakistan that >> >>>>> wants >> >>> peace >> >>>>> in South Asia, and realizes that peace >> is the only way forward in >> >>> Pakistan. >> >>>>> They act vigilantly against >> war-mongers and preachers of >> >>>>> prejudice in >> >>>>> Pakistan, exactly as many of us act >> vigilantly against the >> >>>>> constituency >> >>> that >> >>>>> advocates permanent aggression here. >> That includes our vigilance >> >>>>> against >> >>>>> your hate filled agenda. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Whenever an atrocity like what >> happened in Pune occurs, I find >> >>>>> that the >> >>>>> constituency of rabid right-wing >> nationalism comes crawling out >> >>>>> like >> >>> maggots >> >>>>> to feast on the dead. As if they were >> waiting for tragedy to >> >>>>> strike to >> >>> once >> >>>>> again find their reason for >> existence. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Have none of these people any shame? >> Have you none at all? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Shuddha >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 17-Feb-10, at 1:07 PM, Aditya Raj >> Kaul wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message >> ---------- >> >>>>> From: Irma Razdan >> >>>>> Date: 2010/2/17 >> >>>>> Subject: Fwd: AMAN KI AASHA >> >>>>> To: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> For my Hindi speaking followers, this >> is a poem that was >> >>>>> authored by a >> >>> mod >> >>>>> of a forum which is my frequent haunt. >> It is a take on the >> >>>>> recent 'Aman >> >>> ki >> >>>>> Asha' program by the Times of India >> and Jang group of Pakistan, >> >>>>> which is >> >>>>> supposed to be an Indo-Pak peace >> project. Newbies, please refer >> >>>>> to link. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> घर घर में आज >> जगती है, हर >> >>>>> सुबह अमन की >> आशा, >> >>>>> टाइम्स ऑफ >> इंडिया और >> >>>>> दैनिक जंग का, >> देखो नया >> >>>>> तमाशा, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> पीठ में ख़ंजर >> भोंका >> >>>>> जिनने, मानवता >> को ही छला, >> >>>>> आज बोलते चले >> हैं वोही, >> >>>>> कैसी शांति की >> भाषा, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ज़मीन के लालच >> को धर्म >> >>>>> का मुखौटा >> पहना, >> >>>>> जिन जल्लादों >> ने छीना >> >>>>> भारत माँ का >> गहना, >> >>>>> आज उन्ही से >> रखनी होगी, >> >>>>> हमको प्रेम की >> अभिलाषा >> >>>>> वाह रे टाइम्स >> ऑफ >> >>>>> इंडिया, क्या >> खूब है तेरी >> >>>>> आशा. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> देखो कैप्टन >> कालिया, >> >>>>> ऐसा हुआ आपका >> बलिदान, >> >>>>> आज अफ़ज़ल गुरु >> और क़सब >> >>>>> को शायद मिल >> जाये जीवनदान, >> >>>>> छब्बीस-ग्यारह >> दोहराने >> >>>>> को बेचैन हैं >> जिनके >> >>>>> जेहादी, >> >>>>> दोस्ती का राग >> सुना रहे, >> >>>>> वही कियानी, >> ज़रदारी और >> >>>>> गीलानी, >> >>>>> कौआ चले हंस की >> चाल, देखो >> >>>>> इनकी मीठी >> भाषा, >> >>>>> हमें दोस्ती का >> पाठ >> >>>>> पढ़ाएंगे, अब >> सूजा अहमद >> >>>>> पाशा. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> हमारे अपने >> नेताओं ने, >> >>>>> देश को भी नहीं >> बख़्शा >> >>>>> नपुंसक से भी >> कम पौरुष >> >>>>> जिनमें, वो >> करेंगे देश की >> >>>>> रक्षा? >> >>>>> बातचीत के >> ज़रिये ये, >> >>>>> मिटा देंगे >> सारे भेद >> >>>>> आधा कश्मीर >> खोने का, >> >>>>> इनको ज़रा नहीं >> खेद, >> >>>>> राष्ट्र को >> किया >> >>>>> लज्जित, दी >> शर्म-अल- >> >>>>> शेख़ में >> निराशा, >> >>>>> समझे नहीं हम >> किसने लिखी >> >>>>> आख़िर उस >> दस्तावेज़ की >> >>>>> भाषा. >> >>>>> कब तक जयचंदों >> को जनती >> >>>>> रहेगी हे माता! >> >>>>> कब तक तेरे >> बच्चों को >> >>>>> होती रहेगी >> हताशा, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> आतंकवाद की आग >> में जब जल >> >>>>> रहा है >> पाकिस्तान, >> >>>>> ऐसी हालत में >> इनके >> >>>>> हृदय में जागा >> है इंसान, >> >>>>> दिल्ली मुंबई >> अहमदाबाद >> >>>>> ने जब की थीं >> जानें >> >>>>> क़ुर्बान, >> >>>>> मन ही मन खुश >> होते थे यही >> >>>>> पाकी हैवान, >> >>>>> देखो >> भारतवासियों, रखना >> >>>>> इतना ध्यान, >> >>>>> >> राष्ट्रभक्तों के हाथ >> >>>>> में ही सदा >> देना तुम कमान, >> >>>>> झूठे >> धर्म-निरपक्षों से >> >>>>> रहना तुम >> सावधान, >> >>>>> वोट बैंक बनकर >> कभी मत >> >>>>> करना मतदान. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> बोस, पटेल, >> सावरकर ने, >> >>>>> जिस देश को है >> तराशा, >> >>>>> लूट ना ले उसको >> फिर, यह >> >>>>> झूठी अमन की >> आशा. >> >>>>> घर घर में आज >> जगती है, हर >> >>>>> सुबह अमन की >> आशा, >> >>>>> टाइम्स ऑफ >> इंडिया और >> >>>>> दैनिक जंग का, >> देखो नया >> >>>>> तमाशा. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> English Transliteration: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Aman Ki Aasha >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har >> subah aman ki aasha, >> >>>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, >> dekho naya tamaasha, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Peeth mein khanjar bhonka jinnay, >> manavta ko hi chhala, >> >>>>> aaj bolte chale hain wohi, kaisi >> shanti ki bhaasha, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> zameen ke lalach ko dharm ka mukhauta >> pehna, >> >>>>> jin jallado ne chhena, Bharat Maa ka >> gehna, >> >>>>> aaj unhi se rakhni hogi, hamko prem ki >> abhilaasha, >> >>>>> wah re Times of India, kya khoob hai >> teri Aasha. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dekho Captain Kalia, aisa hua aapka >> balidaan, >> >>>>> Aaj Afzal Guru aur Qasab ko, shayad >> mil jaaye jeevandaan, >> >>>>> Chhabees-Gyarah (26/11) dohraanay ko, >> bechain hain jinkay jehadi, >> >>>>> hame dosti ka raag sunaa rahey, wohi >> Kiani, Zardari aur Gilani >> >>>>> Kawwa chale hans ki chaal, dekho inki >> meethi bhaasha, >> >>>>> hamen dosti ka paath padhayenge, ab >> Sooja Ahmed Pasha. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hamare apne netao ne, desh ko bhi nahi >> baksha, >> >>>>> Napunsak se bhi kam pourush jinme, woh >> karenge desh ki raksha? >> >>>>> baatcheet ke zariye ye, mitaa denge >> saare bhed, >> >>>>> aadha Kashmir khoney ka, inko zara >> nahi khed, >> >>>>> Rashtra ko kiya lajjit, di >> Sharm-Al-Shekh mein niraasha, >> >>>>> samjhe nahin hum kisnay likhi , aakhir >> us dastavez ki bhasha. >> >>>>> Kab tak Jaichando ko janti rahegi he >> maata, >> >>>>> Kab tak tere bachcho ko, hoti rahegi >> hataasha. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Atankwaad ki aag mein, jab jal raha >> hai Pakistan, >> >>>>> Aisi halat mein inke hriday mein, >> jaaga hai insaan, >> >>>>> Dilli, Mumbai Ahemdabad ne, jab ki thi >> jaane qurbaan, >> >>>>> man hi man khush hote they, yahi paki >> haiwan. >> >>>>> Dekho Bharat vasiyon, rakhna itna >> dhyan, >> >>>>> Rashtrabhakto ke haath mein hi, sada >> dana tum kamaan, >> >>>>> Jhoothey dharm-nirpayksho se, rehna >> tom saavdhaan, >> >>>>> vote bank bankar kabhi, mat karna >> matdaan. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Bose, Patel, Savarkar ne, jis desh ko >> hai taraasha, >> >>>>> loot na le usko phir, yeh jhooti aman >> ki aasha. >> >>>>> Ghar ghar mein aaj jagti hai, har >> subah aman ki aasha, >> >>>>> Times of India aur dainik Jang ka, >> dekho naya tamaasha. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Courtsey : Kumpal Madrasi >> >>>>> >> >>>>>  ------------------------------ >> >>>>> >> _________________________________________ >> >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list >> on media and the city. >> >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with >> >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >>>>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >>>>> Raqs Media Collective >> >>>>> shuddha at sarai.net >> >>>>> www.sarai.net >> >>>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >>>> >> >>>> Freelance Writer >> >>>> >> >>>> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> >>>> _________________________________________ >> >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and the city. >> >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> > The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> > Raqs Media Collective >> > shuddha at sarai.net >> > www.sarai.net >> > www.raqsmediacollective.net >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 18:39:37 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:39:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <341380d01002210502j5cb640e8h8e58a7390a4657af@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002201030q1348387an4736a5799f7f53c9@mail.gmail.com> <632522.14976.qm@web112114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <341380d01002210502j5cb640e8h8e58a7390a4657af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I knew it. People here have personal agendas to grind better rather than thinking about the problem. So now, we have adults fighting worse than children. Forget about India and Pakistan, it will be a great day to have 'Aman' amongst our forum members itself. Perhaps Sarai moderator can think of such a program. Rakesh From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 21 18:56:23 2010 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:26:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <409059.86029.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh Ji, Let me make it clear, some of my best friends in twice attended courses in USA have been of Pakistani origin or nationals of Pakistan.So I don't see each and every Pakistani as threat. As in India there are both good and bad people, however the quantum may vary.I don't deny having a bias or grudge against the appeasement policies whether by Govt authorities,NGOs or individuals for petty political ends or so called secularism.This bias like mine I see increasing in people because of the recent events. Everyone else is free to have his/her views different than mine otherwise there is no use of an open forum. I usually don't react and am usually brief as I can't afford to type out long messages/reactions as ultimately nothing comes out of the discussions.Strangely, I still have not got the mail of sarai in my inbox which I had sent but there have been two quick responses. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA > To: "anupam chakravartty" > Cc: "A.K. Malik" , reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 6:39 PM > I knew it. People here have personal agendas > to grind better rather than thinking about the problem. So > now, we have adults fighting worse than children. Forget > about India and Pakistan, it will be a great day to have > 'Aman' amongst our forum members itself. Perhaps > Sarai moderator can think of such a program. > > > Rakesh > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 21 18:57:10 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:27:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Colourful India (40 brilliant photographs) Message-ID: <85000.7123.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Yes! 40 brilliant photographs of "Colourful India"   But! One photograph that should shame all Indians. Of children working at a construction site.   http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/02/colorful_india.html   I am ashamed of it since it is not a rare sight but almost the norm at all construction sites especially in urbanised areas or being-urbanised areas in India.   Kshmendra From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 21 19:17:51 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:47:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "A strong and stable Pakistan is not in India's best interests" Message-ID: <391300.61609.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> DISCLAIMER: I may or may not, agree or disagree, in part or in full, with the comments and analyses in the article posted   Kshmendra     "A strong and stable Pakistan is not in India's best interests"   Vir Sanghvi 19 Feb 2010   If you have been following the debate over the resumption of talks with Pakistan, then you will be startled by the kinds of arguments that are put forward by the proponents of dialogue. If, on the other hand, you are a hack of long standing like me, then you’ve probably heard it all before. I know I have heard versions of the same argument being recycled year after year, decade after decade.      Here is a small sample of what you’re probably hearing – and a short explanation about why it makes very little sense.   One: A strong and stable Pakistan is in India’s best interests.   This argument is as old as the hills. The underlying assumption is that were Pakistan to break up, thousands of mad militants would attack India. There is a tiny grain of truth to this view so I will not dismiss it out of hand but consider the opposite view.      In 1971, Pakistan broke up. Half of the country actually seceded and became Bangladesh. The immediate consequence of this weak and enfeebled Pakistan was two decades of peace. Throughout the 70s and the 80s, we had very little trouble from Islamabad. Plus, with East Pakistan gone, funding for rebels in Nagaland and Mizoram dried up. Consequently, both problems were solved and the insurgencies ended.      If Pakistan were to break up, if Sindh or Baluchistan seceded, there is no way this could do India any harm. Rather Pakistan would be so obsessed with its own problems that we would have a degree of peace.      Further, the real threat to India is not from freelance jihadis. They are quite happy killing other Pakistanis. The threat to us comes from organized terror planned by state and semi-state actors. Such forces are at their peak when Pakistan is strong and stable.   Two: We must strengthen Pakistani moderates.   Have you ever heard a Pakistani intellectual appear on Indian TV and say, “We must strengthen Indian secular forces because otherwise the Sangh Parivar will gain in strength?”      Me neither.      So why do we feel obliged to take sides in Pakistan’s internal disputes? The truth is that we have fought with Pakistan no matter which party has been in power. Benazir Bhutto began the Kashmir insurgency when she was Prime Minister. Kargil happened when Nawaz Sharif was Prime Minister. The Parliament attack took place on General Musharraf’s watch. Asif Zardari was President during 26/11.      Bitter experience has demonstrated that when it comes to India, there are no moderates and extremists in Pakistan. At some stage or the other, every political party plays the anti-India card to win support.   Three: It is only through talks that we can find a meeting ground.   Anybody who has spoken to Pakistani officials will tell you that they have only two concerns. First of all, they want us to give them more river water. And secondly, they want control of Kashmir. Some Indian officials argue that even the demand for Kashmir is related to the Pakistani desire to get more river water.      For talks between India and Pakistan to get anywhere, we have to be willing to make concessions on either or both of these issues. But the truth is that Indian public opinion will not allow any government to compromise on either of these issues.      On river water we think that we are being more than fair to Pakistan and no farmer will agree to release more water to Pakistan. In fact, there is a growing demand within India to abrogate the Indus Waters Treaty (in which case Pakistan is finished) as a counter to terrorism.        On Kashmir, it is clear that Indian public opinion will not agree to any kind of concession aimed at pleasing Pakistan. Nobody will agree to give up an inch of Kashmir. Equally, there is no public support for the concept of joint sovereignty or a soft border which allows terrorists to come and go at will.      Given that the Indian positions are so inflexible, no talks can ever succeed. This is why all summits – whether in Lahore or in Agra – end up achieving nothing.   Four: We can end terrorism through dialogue.   We have been discussing this for over a decade now and despite many attempts at a dialogue including talk of a joint mechanism to fight terror, the situation on the ground has hardly changed.      The Pakistanis claim that any evidence we provide is inadequate. When we argue to the contrary, they say that their courts are free and so the government can do nothing if the likes of Hafiz Sayeed are let off. (It is another matter that every terrorist the Americans want arrested is quickly handed over to them for extraordinary rendition.)      When we respond that we are not looking for criminal convictions, that all we seek is a crackdown on terror organizations that are openly targeting India, the Pakistanis have a new explanation ready.      They say: what can we do? We are suffering from the same malaise! Large parts of our territory are beyond our control. We would like to help but our government does not have the power to rein in the terrorists.      Which takes us back to square one: if they are not going to act against terrorists then why are we wasting time talking to them?   Five: The way forward is people-to-people contacts.   This is the one part of the classic candles-on-the-Wagah-border formulation that I actually have no problems with. Pakistanis are fed on the belief that Muslims are mistreated in India and that we have no successful minorities.      India can only gain if more Pakistanis come here and see the truth and recognize that our secular society has flourished while their Islamist society has destroyed their country. Any educated Pakistani who visits today’s India goes back impressed.      Plus, there is India’s soft power. Why do all Pakistanis long to see Bollywood movies? Why do so many Pakistanis dream of making it big in the Indian entertainment business? Why is it such a big deal when no Pakistanis are picked for an Indian cricket league? Would Indian players have cared if they were not asked to play for a Pakistani league?      The problem is that the Pakistani establishment recognizes the strengths of India’s open, secular society. It is quite happy sending the same 100 Punjabis over every year to talk peace at the India International Centre and at Neemrana. But it has no desire to allow Indian popular culture a free reign in Pakistan. And it sees no merit in allowing more Pakistanis a taste of the real India.      So, the next time you hear these hoary old clichés being tossed around, be a little skeptical. Experience has taught us that they do not amount to very much.   http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint-ArticleDetail.aspx?ID=441   From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 19:45:57 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:45:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] J. F. R. Jacob Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002210615ud63afacs4da4c4ec52bb74bd@mail.gmail.com> "We won in 1971 and B'desh was liberated because of a Jew who pushed ahead -- Gen JFR Jacob. Anybody remember him?" Regards Pawan From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 20:44:54 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:44:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] J. F. R. Jacob In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002210615ud63afacs4da4c4ec52bb74bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002210615ud63afacs4da4c4ec52bb74bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002210714l10f270b3k492eb2343072fb1@mail.gmail.com> Taking Dhaka did not figure in Manekshaw’s plans: General Jacob In CNBC’s ‘India Tonight’ programme broadcast on April 30, Karan Thapar presented an interview with Lieutenant-General J.F.R. Jacob, who was Chief of Staff of the Indian Army’s Eastern Command during the Bangladesh campaign of 1971, and who was after his retirement Governor of Goa and Governor of Punjab, in the context of the Government’s decision to give Field Marshal S.H.F.J. Manekshaw back pay for the period since his retirement from service over 36 years ago. There is a particular focus here on his role, as well as General Jacob’s role, in the Bangladesh campaign. This is an edited but substantially intact version of the transcript provided by CNBC: Karan Thapar: Recently the Government gave Field Marshal Manekshaw a cheque for Rs. 1.6 crore in lieu of the salary he should have received as Field Marshal but didn’t get over the last 36 years. You have worked very closely with him. In 1971 when he was made Field Marshal, was he treated fairly or shabbily? General Jacob: I think the Government was less than generous. He went out on a pension of Rs. 1,300 — that was Rs. 100 more than [that of] the Chief [of the Army Staff]. And no perks whatsoever, no car, nothing. Karan: You met him a few days after his retirement. You called on him at the MES Inspection Bungalow. How did you find him? Gen. Jacob: I found him sitting there dejected and looking very lonely. I asked him what the problem was, and he told me he had just returned after meeting Mrs. Gandhi and that he had asked to be made Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission, which she declined. Instead she offered him the high commissionership in one of the Commonwealth countries, and he was very upset. Karan: He was upset at being refused the Deputy Chairmanship. Did he explain why he wanted the Deputy Chairmanship? Gen. Jacob: No, he didn’t explain it. But I pre-assume that he thought he would be able to do it. It’s an important job. Karan: And it was the job he had set his heart on. Gen. Jacob: Yes. Karan: In fact, when Manekshaw visited Calcutta after retirement — by then you were the Army Commander in Calcutta — he didn’t even have a car and you put one at his disposal. But Jagjivan Ram, Defence Minister, ticked you off for that. Gen. Jacob: Yes, he did. He said, why [are] you giving him a car he is not authorised [to use] as a Field Marshal? So I told him, look I am not giving him a car because he is Field Marshal; this is a courtesy I extend to all ex-Army Commanders of the Eastern Command. Karan: But the Defence Minister of the day didn’t like the idea? Gen. Jacob: No. Karan: Your association with Manekshaw goes back to 1950 when he was a Brigadier and DMO [Director of Military Operations] and you were a Major attached to General Staff in Delhi. He used to consult you a lot in those days, didn’t he? Gen. Jacob: Yes, I used to go fairly often to his house. He was generous and hospitable to me and he used to discuss matters with me. You see, Sam unfortunately had a very short experience of war. He was wounded in the early stages of war; unfortunately he was not able to command a battalion, so he used to call me in for discussions. Karan: So in a sense he had a short experience of war and he never commanded a battalion in his entire career. Gen. Jacob: That’s correct. Karan: Which meant those were little bits of disadvantages for him as a DMO. In contrast, you had done full five years in the Second World War, he needed your advice. Gen. Jacob: Well, I don’t know [if] he needed [it] or not, but he used to ask for it. Karan: In an interview in 1999, Manekshaw told me that he won a Military Cross almost at the beginning of the Second World War; a certain General Cowan took the unusual step of pinning the medal on him on the battlefield itself. Gen. Jacob: Well, I don’t know about that: no one wears medals at war. But Sam deserved it: he was courageous and got an active gallantry [award]. But the question of anyone pinning on a medal… no one wears medals in war. I think it is Sam’s over-exuberance. Karan: That’s a bit of an exaggeration. Gen. Jacob: Well, call that… Karan: You next served with Manekshaw in 1961. He was at that time the Commandant of the Staff College at Wellington and you were a member of the teaching staff. At the time Manekshaw was accused of anti-national activities and a court of inquiry was appointed to investigate the matter. And you were asked to give evidence. Is that right? Gen. Jacob: That’s correct, I was rung up by General Kaul, offered anything if I gave evidence. I refused to give evidence. It’s not my wont and my character to give evidence against my boss. I refused. Karan: But were you, in refusing to give evidence, protecting Manekshaw? Gen. Jacob: I consider that is not done for me to give evidence against my boss. Had I done so, it would have caused difficulties for Manekshaw. Karan: Had you given evidence, you could have caused difficulties for Manekshaw? Gen. Jacob: I said it could have caused. Karan: In other words, you are saying had you given evidence, had you spoken about things you knew of — instead of being exonerated as Manekshaw was, he could have been found guilty? Gen. Jacob: I don’t think so. All I can say is, he might have created some problem. Karan: At the time, if I recall correctly, the speculation was that Manekshaw had the habit of talking loosely. People say that he would go around referring to Indians dismissively as natives and that in public frequently, sitting at Wellington Club, he would criticise politicians like V.K. Krishna Menon, or General Kaul. If I recall correctly, you were honorary secretary of the Wellington Club. Was there some credibility to these stories? Gen. Jacob: I can’t comment on that. Karan: You can’t comment? Gen. Jacob: No. Karan: But you won’t deny them either. Gen. Jacob: I won’t comment. Karan: That’s very significant. You won’t comment, but you won’t deny them. Let’s come to the 1971 war, for which Manekshaw is best known. At that time you were Chief of Staff, Eastern Command. It is widely believed that Manekshaw stood up to pressure from politicians and as a result military action was delayed from April 1971 to December. But that’s not the real truth, is it? Gen. Jacob: Well, put [it] this way, he did ring me three times in early April to move to Bangladesh. I refused, I gave him reasons. Karan: He rang you three times wanting the Army to move to Bangladesh? Gen. Jacob: I gave him reasons why we couldn’t move. Karan: I will soon ask you what your reasons were, but he wasn’t happy with your refusal? Gen. Jacob: No. Karan: He got irritated? Gen. Jacob: Yes. Karan: Now, you refused to move in. What exactly were the reasons you gave Manekshaw? Gen. Jacob: I told him, look, we are mountain divisions. We don’t have a single bridge. There are large numbers of rivers between us to cross. We don’t have transport. The monsoon is about to break. And international penal [action] will not let you move. So these are the reasons we cannot move. I told him: [I’m] afraid it’s not possible at this stage. Karan: Two things: first of all, the reasons you had — and obviously they were good reasons — for not moving in April were reasons he had never thought of or appreciated as the Army chief. Gen. Jacob: I can’t comment on what he thought. Karan: But clearly that follows that he was pushing you to move in, he rung you three times, were irritated by your refusal. Gen. Jacob: But his people in Delhi pushed him. Karan: Secondly, you also pointed out to him that if the Army moved in April, it would have been disastrous? Gen. Jacob: Yes, it would have been, because we [would have] got bogged down. Karan: So the truth is, people say Manekshaw stood up to political pressure and delayed military action from April to December. The full truth is that he did this because the Eastern Command stood up to him on three separate occasions, otherwise he might have agreed to the pressure he was under. Gen. Jacob: Yes, maybe after he got our advice he went to the Cabinet and told them ‘No.’ Karan: Let’s now come to the war plan under which India fought the war. As Chief of Staff, Eastern Command, you sent your version of the plan to Delhi in May. What was the strategy that plan was based upon? Gen. Jacob: We assessed that to win a war we had to take Dhaka. Dhaka was the geo-strategic heart of East Pakistan. No campaign would have been complete without it. Karan: So the core of your war plan was the taking of Dhaka? Gen. Jacob: Yes. Karan: In August, Manekshaw came to Calcutta where the Eastern Command has its headquarters, where you were Chief of Staff. He came with [his] own war plan. How different was that to yours? Gen. Jacob: It was very, very different. The orders that come with him, which he read out with his DMO, K.K. Singh, were the following: You will take Khulna and Chittagong — these are the entry points — and territory. Those were the orders given. Karan: And no mention of Dhaka whatsoever. Gen. Jacob: None whatsoever Karan: So Dhaka didn’t feature in Manekshaw’s war plan at all? Gen. Jacob: At all. Karan: I gathered [that] at that meeting in Calcutta there was a sort of acrimonious exchange of opinions. You fairly forcefully pointed out to Manekshaw that not taking Dhaka, not focussing on Dhaka, was a serious mistake. How did he react to your views? Gen. Jacob: He was very upset. He said, don’t you see sweetie — that term he uses when he doesn’t like something you say. He said, don’t you see if we take Khulna and Chittagong the war will be over? I said I didn’t see how that could happen. Karan: At that point he turned to General Aurora, who was there and who was your boss and army commander. And what did he say to General Aurora? Jacob: Don’t you agree? Yes sir, I entirely agree, said General Aurora. Karan: At that moment of time, you were in a minority — General Manekshaw, General Aurora and DMO K.K. Singh were all in favour of the war plan which Manekshaw had brought, which concentrated on Khulna and Chittagong and completely ignored Dhaka. You were a lone voice demanding that the war plan should concentrate on Dhaka instead. Gen. Jacob: Yes, Manekshaw has briefed the government accordingly and these are orders, which have been approved. Karan: So the nub of this is that ultimately when India went to war in December, it went to war with a war plan which completely ignored Dhaka? Gen. Jacob: The war plan that was given to us in writing was [one that concentrated on] Khulna and Chittagong. Karan: In fact, Air Chief Marshal P.C. Lal, the [Air Force] chief of the time, writes in his book My Years With the IAF, that the Indian Army didn’t expect that Pakistani forces in East Pakistan would collapse and that Dhaka would fall. As Air Chief Marshal Lal writes: “The possibility that Pakistani forces in West Pakistan would collapse altogether as they did and that Dhaka would fall... was not considered something that was likely to happen.” Gen. Jacob: That’s correct. That was the recommendation given to the Government by Manekshaw. Karan: So General Manekshaw did not expect that East Pakistan would collapse and Dhaka would fall. Gen. Jacob: Correct Karan: Air Chief Marshal P.C Lal has also contradicted something else that the Field Marshal has repeatedly said of himself. Manekshaw always claimed that he ran the war single-handedly — clearly suggesting that the Navy and the Air Force took orders from him. Air Chief Marshal Lal writes: “The three services, the Army, the Navy and the Air Force, were left to plan their activities as they thought best.” Whose version is right: Manekshaw’s or Lal’s? Gen. Jacob: Difficult. Lal is right. Karan: Lal is right? You’re absolutely sure of that? Gen. Jacob: Yes, sure. Karan: There were also moments when Manekshaw’s behaviour upset and offended senior commanders. For instance, there is what happened on September 1971, when he flew to Calcutta with D.P Dhar. In front of him Dhar proceeded to scold senior generals... This was not only indiscreet and improper but could have affected camaraderie. They took that very badly. Gen. Jacob: A meeting was there with the Army Commander, the Core Commander, the Divisional Commander, and Manekshaw started berating all of us. Karan: And this had a bad effect on the Generals? Gen. Jacob: It was resented deeply… Karan: Therefore, at this critical moment of time, just two months before war began, this was very bad behaviour on the part of the Army chief? Gen. Jacob: All I say is, people were surprised that Mr. D.P. Dhar, who is a politician and who was sitting close to the Prime Minister, was listening to it. Karan: And the Army chief should not have scolded his senior Generals, whose services he critically required at that time, in this way? Gen. Jacob: Well, I would have not done it. Karan: Let’s jump to the weeks immediately before the military action in December. I’m talking about November. Manekshaw refused to give you troops to tackle Dhaka because he refused to make Dhaka a part of the war plan. You moved three brigades from the Chinese border for this purpose. What did he say when he found out? Gen. Jacob: He was furious. And you see…I told…Gill who was the DMO…it was done between us… and [he] agreed with me to take Dhaka. Manekshaw was not informed of the move of these brigades and he was absolutely furious with Gill. He told him that he would… and that the brigades would move back at once. Karan: But the brigades didn’t move back. Gen. Jacob: I spoke to Gill and we had a long chat and I said I cannot move these brigades back. Karan: So the brigades stayed where they were regardless of the fact that the Army chief was furious and wanted them to return. Gen. Jacob: Gill did that…but…Gill made me promise since he was shouted at… I would not commit them inside Bangladesh without reference to them. Karan: So you had access to them…should you need them…but you gave a commitment not to use them without further permission. Gen. Jacob: I expected that I would be given permission once the war started… but permission was denied for five days… I requested every day for their deployment but they were not cleared to move in by Manekshaw until December 8. Karan: So even when you needed these brigades he denied you permission for five full days. Had you got that permission five days earlier, could you have taken Dhaka five days earlier? Gen. Jacob: We would not have taken Dhaka, but would have surely speeded up the fall of Dhaka. Karan: So you could have speeded up the fall of Dhaka. You could have speeded up the war. But Gen. Manekshaw’s refusal to let you use these three brigades held things up. Gen. Jacob: They did. Karan: One other thing. Am I right in believing that when war began by December 2-3-4, the plan was to go for Khulna and Chittagong, but you ignored it and instead you went straight to Dhaka, which you always believed was the right thing to do? Gen. Jacob: That’s correct. Karan: Let’s jump the story to December 13. At that point in time, the Indian Army had bypassed towns like Rangpur, Dinajpur and Sylhet and had reached the gates of Dhaka. Which meant that you were virtually at the doorstep of the capital, but you had no major towns under your control except for Jessore and Comilla which the Pakistanis had evacuated and you had occupied. Is that a correct assessment of the position? Gen. Jacob: Yes. Karan: At this point in time, [there] was a great fear that India might be forced to accept a ceasefire and that if that happened [would be left] without major towns under its control? Gen. Jacob: The U.N. was in session Karan: The U.N. was in session, and if that had happened without any major town under its control the ceasefire would be very disadvantageous to India Gen. Jacob: Entirely. Karan: General Manekshaw sent you an order, copied to the Corps Commanders, asking you to capture all the bypassed towns. How did you respond to that order? Gen. Jacob: Except Dhaka. Dhaka was not mentioned. Karan: So he wanted all the towns that had been bypassed to be captured, but once again ignored Dhaka? Gen. Jacob: No mention was made whatsoever. You can’t capture a town, it takes a long time… See what happened in Faluja. It takes time and it’s very heavy in casualties. Karan: So you therefore ignored his orders? Gen. Jacob: Well, there is an example in history. Horatio Nelson putting the telescope to his blind eye. Karan: So you did the same thing. Gen. Jacob: We did the same thing. Karan: Now, in fact you went one step further… didn’t you? You also contacted a Corps Commander who had to copy to Signals what instructions you gave them? Gen. Jacob: Ignore it. Karan: You said, the Corps Commanders [may] ignore the Army chief’s signal. If you had agreed to what Manekshaw was asking and you had gone back to capture towns you had bypassed, there was the likelihood that you would have got bogged down. Gen. Jacob: We would [have] completely [got] bogged down, we could not have captured the towns. Karan: Secondly, … [had you] concentrated on the bypassed towns, you would have failed to take Dhaka. Gen. Jacob: Absolutely right. [Had] we gone back, we couldn’t have taken Dhaka. Karan: So had General Manekshaw’s signal of December 13 been accepted, that could have endangered India’s great victory? Gen. Jacob: Well, I put it differently that it would have delayed the proceedings. Karan: It would have delayed the proceedings… those proceedings, as you told me a moment ago, would anyway [have been] delayed because he denied you access to the three brigades. This order from Manekshaw was a bad order. Let’s jump to December 15. General Niazi, the Pakistani Commander, sent a signal offering a ceasefire. More importantly, he had 30,000 soldiers under his command in Dhaka. Gen. Jacob: Yes, about 30,000. Karan: Whilst you only had 3,000 outside the city. So you were out-manned 10 to one. Gen. Jacob: Yes. Karan: In addition [to the fact that] the U.N. was in session, there was a Polish resolution in front of the Security Council calling for an Indian withdrawal. And the Russians had indicated that they were not going to use their veto in India’s favour again. Gen. Jacob: And Poland was [part of the] Soviet bloc. Karan: So at that point of time, on December 15, the circumstances both within East Pakistan and internationally made it seem as if a surrender was not the likely outcome. Gen. Jacob: You see, Niazi had merely sent a signal to us, which was conveyed to the Americans, that there should be a ceasefire under the U.N., a withdrawal under the U.N., handover to the U.N., and no more crimes… That’s all. Karan: And therefore if Niazi had used his 30,000 soldiers… he could have carried on fighting for another two to three weeks, giving the U.N. ample time to impose the ceasefire. And that would have been very disadvantageous because India had no other town under its control. Gen. Jacob: That’s quite right. Karan: So it’s a critical moment. Gen. Jacob: Very critical. Karan: Now on December 16 you arrived in Dhaka in response to Niazi’s offer of a ceasefire. Four hours later you had converted a ceasefire into an unconditional surrender. What did you do to achieve what sounds now like a miracle? Gen. Jacob: Well… one thing that happened was, on the morning of December 16. Manekshaw phoned me and said go to Dhaka and get a surrender. I said we have sent you a surrender document, do I negotiate on those terms? He said just go, you know what to do. So I carried with me my draft what I sent to Delhi and I arrived in Dhaka with this draft with the staff officer. I was met at the Dhaka airport by the U.N.’s Mark Henry, Kelly and the others. And they said we are coming with you to arrange the ceasefire and withdraw the Pakistan Army and take over. I said, thank you very much, I don’t need your help. Then I proceeded to Niazi’s headquarters. The Pakistani Brigadier was with me, the Mukthi Bahini and the Pakistanis were fighting on the streets. Firing was going on. They wanted to kill this guy with me. With a lot of difficulty we reached the Pakistani headquarters and this thing was read out to Niazi — the surrender document. He said that you have only come here to discuss the ceasefire and withdrawal…Who said I am surrendering? So this argument went on. So it’s an unconditional surrender. I said it’s not an unconditional surrender, we have put the treaty with respect. We will evacuate all the civilians, etc., so it’s not an unconditional surrender. Karan: Then what happened? How did you get him to agree to a surrender? Gen. Jacob: Then I told him, General, I assure you if you surrender, accept these terms, we look after you, etc., and I will ensure that. The Government of India has given the word and will ensure your safety and that of your civilians. Karan: Did you also say to him [that] if you don’t surrender, there will be no protection? Gen. Jacob: I said that in a different way. I said if you don’t surrender, we can take no responsibility. Karan: Then what happened? Gen. Jacob: Then he kept [on talking] and then I said General, I cannot give you any better terms. I will give you 30 minutes. If you don’t comply I would have no option but to order resumption of hostilities. Karan: During those 30 minutes were you panicking? Gen. Jacob: I wasn’t panicking but I walked out and I said god, he has 30,000 troops we have 3,000... Suppose he says no, what do I do? And I had no answer. Karan: Thirty minutes later you went back to the room, and what did he say? Gen. Jacob: He kept quiet, I walked up to him. The document was on the table and I asked him: General, do you accept this document? I asked him three times but he didn’t answer. So I picked it up. I said, I take it as accepted. Karan: At that point he also cried. Gen. Jacob: He was in tears… Karan: He was in tears… so in a sense you called his bluff… made him believe that you were in a more powerful position than you were… Gen. Jacob: Yes, yes. Karan: He fell for it and he failed to take advantage of the 30,000 soldiers he had. Gen. Jacob: He was held to task by his own commission: why you didn’t do it? You know what he said, I was forced to do it because Gen. Jacob blackmailed me, he said he would hang them over the massacre. Karan: Very quickly, you haven’t got the credit for the surrender that you organised almost single-handedly. Has history been unfair to you? Gen. Jacob: No, I’m not commenting on that…I as a soldier did my duties, that’s not my concern. Karan: One other question. Today you have cast Gen, Manekshaw, Field Marshal Manekshaw as he is, in a very different light to the way we’ve got used to thinking of him. You have suggested that the orders that he gave, particularly on changing the direction of military strategy, were wrong. You also suggested things about him when he was in his earlier post at Wellington that people will find hard to believe. You want to retract any other things you said? Gen. Jacob: Listen, I have not suggested anything. You asked me questions and I have answered them to the best of my ability. Karan: Do you stand by what you said? Gen Jacob: I stand by what I said… all the things [relating to] the order for the operation are in Army Headquarters. Karan: Everything you said is documented in Army Headquarters. Gen. Jacob, a pleasure talking to you on India Tonight. ENDS On 2/21/10, Pawan Durani wrote: > "We won in 1971 and B'desh was liberated because of a Jew who pushed > ahead -- Gen JFR Jacob. Anybody remember him?" > > Regards > > Pawan > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From parikhjigish at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 21:38:51 2010 From: parikhjigish at gmail.com (Jigish Parikh) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:08:51 -0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? Message-ID: Shuddha, You raised a valid point about people getting worked up on specific words. Let me share my two cents on it. A well-read person would not question the fact that history of Muslims in general in context to Indian subcontinent is full of waging wars, destroying/looting properties and temples. Texts such as Akabar Nama or Aurngzeb-nama or any other nama describes in details how Muslim invaders' sole motivation was terrorizing & wiping out Hindu kingdoms. "Terror" or terrorizing others is not alien to Muslims. It has been their easy escape to competition,injustice,imperialism or whatever. If in doubts, refer books which will precisely point out every single invasion and accounts of destruction or even verse of the namas that praise those acts. Now lets talk about a Hindu. When was the last time a Hindu invaded, deliberately planned destruction of anyone ? Despite centuries of oppression, slavery, rapes and murders of their woman ? Can anyone enlighten me ? The idea of inflicting violence/harm to others is TOTALLY "alien" to Hindus. We are the people with "Forget and forgive" attitude not because we are cowards/incapable but our ancient texts teaches us to live life that way. So, when some half-learned, self-appointed scholars associate the word "terror" with Hindu it is no surprise that lot of people get uncomfortable. Can one of these self-proclaimed scholar explain me suddenly how and specially why "now" Hindu mentality changed particularly in a "liberated", democratic India when misery of Hindus is no where close to as in their worst times. Actually by doing this(associating word "terror" with Hindu) stupid,careless and mind-less media is fermenting a divide in the society and pushing very silent and moderate sections of Hindu society towards the right. The least I expect from every Hindu to understand this. -- Thank you, Jigish Parikh. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 21:39:53 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:39:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] AMAN KI AASHA In-Reply-To: <409059.86029.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <409059.86029.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Malik jee and all My response: a) With regard to your mail, I believe that people can have views. What I do believe is that views should be based on objectivity and not subjectivity as much as possible. There will be emotions attached to a thing, and those emotions do make the support strong, but such attachment can be detrimental too. b) With regard to the questions I asked, I would say that it is quite ironic that all those who wish to really talk about 'Aman ki Asha', either with the view of trashing it or with the view of encouraging it, are not coming forward to completely state their points. However, I feel that I should do so, irrespective of the others doing it or not. 1) As an Indian citizen (a reality I have to accept) I believe that certain realities must be taken into account when we say why we should talk or not talk to Pakistan. The reasons which make us talk to Pakistan are that it is a neighbor (and one can't ignore a neighbor, specially where there is turmoil, even if the authorities there are encouraging it). Secondly, the entire Pakistan can't be considered as a single entity, for there are groups, institutions and sections of the public there which want peace with India and don't support the actions of the terrorists. And not talking jeopardizes their hopes. Thirdly, Pakistan, being a small neighbor, can't come forward to talks to seem like a beggar, and India can be magnanimous in coming forward. Fourth, talks with Pakistan can ensure that they deliver on their results on terrorism. Fifth, most importantly, all problems can be solved between the two nations only on the basis of either war or peace, and since war is not an option (both nations have nuclear weapons), compromise and arriving at a solution through talks is the only way out. The reasons which force us away from talks are that firstly, it could be a classic case of talking to a neighbor who is simply not interested in arriving at a solution. Pakistan, or Pakistani policy is dominated by the discourse given by the army there, and since it is anti-Indian, irrespective of the wishes of peace on either sides of the border, Pakistan army would ensure that nothing will be done against terror groups, and also, no solution would be arrived at on any of the outstanding eight issues between India and Pakistan. On the contrary, the Pakistan army, which I believe, has the policy of compulsive hostility towards India (which can be seen again and again through many events in the past and present), would either be encouraging the terrorist organizations to conduct further blasts in India, or at the least, would be doing nothing about them. So there is no use of talks even if they are held. And if there is a hope that moral pressure may force Pakistan to change, it is like a dream to hide from reality. Moreover, such attacks ensure that India is never able to over-power Pakistan to get its way. (meaning the Indian state) My view is a mixture of the two. I clearly believe that while ordinary Pakistanis may want peace with India, the army and the ISI rule over Pakistan, and unless their mentality changes, there is no hope of anything changing. The talks at best may only be a show of magnanimity on the part of India, but they are hardly going to yield anything. Even the peace process which led to so many confidence-building measures actually introduced things which were there even after the Partition, and the blood-shed accompanying it. If these are the CBM's and have been given so much importance, one can understand the level of mistrust between the two states and people on both sides to an extent. In that case, a better ploy may to be increase people-to-people contacts to let Pakistanis and Indians who hate each other see reason and pressurize their respective governments to change their policies, rather than holding talks with governments managing to carrying out useless propaganda on either side of the border. I believe that India talking with Pakistan (hereby meaning the composite dialogue, meant to solve the 8 outstanding issues between the two nations) has no practical purpose simply because the Pakistan army has no interest in getting any issue solved, be it terror or Kashmir or water. If one issue is solved, another will come up. And to assume that if not today, things can improve tomorrow, without any institutional change in Pakistan, is like expecting a miracle, which I am sorry, is not going to happen, at least not in my lifetime. Hence, the only possible way out is for the public to take over the thing and stop terrorism. It's only public pressure which can force the Pakistan army to shut down terror camps, not talks by India or pressure applied by anyone. Neither is any nation going to fight the battle for India. If anyone can, it's the people of Pakistan themselves. And that is not going to happen anytime soon. So what's the use of talking? For photo sessions? 2) When I say we should not talk, this issue does not arise. We may as well think about the talks later. But we can think about CBM's, and I have already a list in line as to what we can do about it: a) Pakistani students can be invited to study in Indian universities. They can be given scholarship and stipend money. b) Train services can be instituted between Munnabao and Khokhrapar. c) Trade can be further encouraged through policy making to allow more transfer of goods between Pakistan and India. d) More bus services can be thought of between the two nations. Why not have them between the Punjab on either side, and also between say Rajasthan and other place across the border? e) Have more journalists, have more academicians, and other intellectuals going around both countries to know each other's reality. Also, grants can be given for inter-country research, say Indians researching in Pakistan or vice versa. f) Have more cultural programmes, and also discussions between the two nations. These can be in schools, colleges and so on. There need not be any brotherly bonding shown for this, a customary welcome may be enough. And yet, the idea is not to abuse people, and it shouldn't be in any case. Other CBM's can be thought of, and they should concentrate on improving people-to-people contacts. The idea should be that rather than the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, it's those seeking peace who should be in people's contact, and vice versa for the RSS and Shiv Sena here. 3) Finally, the question comes. Whom to talk? Infact, this is one of the pertinent questions with respect to Pakistan. I would say that talking to Gilani and others is of no use, irrespective of how one looks at it. If one looks from Gilani's own statements, he clearly says that Pakistan is not able to guarantee its' own citizens that terror attacks can't happen. If that is the case, then the Pakistani govt. has no capability, and hence talking to it that terror should be controlled is futile. It's better to talk to those who can control terror, which in Pakistan's case is the army and the ISI. The Indian army should actually think about this. We may discuss with Gilani, but we should focus on talking to Kayani and the ISI chief, assuming we do want to talk. The question then comes: What to do? Simple. Launch covert operations across the border to kill terrorists (not civilians). The terrorists have the agenda to kill the citizens of this nation, and so there are only two ways to eliminate it. The first is to eliminate injustice perpetrated on the Muslims, which will take substantial amount of time and effort. This should be pursued straight away. But in the meanwhile, the second, and a quicker one is to impose a cost on those indulging in such activities, so that they stop doing it, and one way is to kill them. In any case, either the Pakistani govt. is unable or unwilling to control their activities, and since they don't take our or anybody's help, it's better that we undertake such operations and do things accordingly. Care should be taken that civilians are not killed. Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 22:51:37 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:51:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Islamic Terror - Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002210921s43baa633l4e2c8bba19501fdd@mail.gmail.com> Pakistani Taliban behead 2 Sikhs http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Pakistani-Taliban-behead-2-Sikhs/articleshow/5600667.cms PESHAWAR/ISLAMABAD: Two Sikhs who were kidnapped over a month back have been beheaded by the Pakistani Taliban in the country's restive tribal belt in a brutal act by the militants. Some more members of the minority community are still in the custody of the rebels. The body of Jaspal Singh was found in the Khyber tribal region, located a short distance from the provincial capital of Peshawar, while the body of Mahal Singh was found in the Aurakzai Agency, sources said on Sunday night There was confusion about the total number of Sikhs who were kidnapped for ransom from the Bara area of Khyber Agency by the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan. A source said four Sikhs were abducted while another report said the total number of kidnapped persons was six. The Sikhs were kidnapped 34 days ago and the Taliban had demanded Rs 30 million as ransom for their release. Two of the kidnapped Sikhs were beheaded after the expiry of the deadline for the payment of the ransom, sources said. Gurvinder Singh and Gurjit Singh are still in the custody of the militants, sources said. The kidnapping occurred in an area where there the government has virtually no control and the militants are in a dominant position, sources said. A sizeable number of Sikhs lived in the tribal belt, particularly Aurakzai Agency, till the Taliban imposed 'jiziya' or religious tax on them last year. Most members of the community then fled to cities across Pakistan. From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 22:53:31 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:23:31 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? References: Message-ID: <96B7E54FD5FA40569F5816E41D748052@shabori> I was born a Hindu and never went through convertion. I have read a lot of Hindu scriptures. I don't think forgetting and forgiving a good virtue. However, I was overwhelmed and struck by a respectable christian woman whose husband was killed by Bajrang Dal activists and she forgave the murderers of her husband. Priyanka Gandhi also offered some generous forgiving gestures towards an accomplice in her father's assassination but some mails on this list have suggested in the past that Priyanka is not a hindu I think Mother Terresa is also a good example of people who could forget and forgive. What is common in these 3 examples? They at least had one parent who was not born in Indian subcontinent. There is a religion common to all in the subcontinent. Whenever you can descriminate and work against the "other", enjoy doing it with ruthlessness. This is what the JDU BJP alliance did when they outsted an honest Muslim minister in Bihar when he raised his voice against corruption in the government. He was the "other" not only because he was a muslim but also because an unusual honest person among the clique of corrupt people. Shuddha and Javed might point towards descrimination against Muslims in India, I can also point towards descrimination against those who are minorities in the minority institutions. Take the case of a professor in Aligarh Muslim University. He was sacked for his alleged homosexual activities, not in the university, but at home. This professor is a minority because he is not a muslim and also because probably he is gay. So, if we have a common culture, it does not teach us to forget and forgive, it teaches to discriminate against the other. And remember the term originally was based on geography. based on Indus (sindhu) river so all in the subcontinent are Hindu. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jigish Parikh" To: Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:08 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? > Shuddha, > > You raised a valid point about people getting worked up > on specific words. Let me share my two cents on it. > A well-read person would not question the fact that history of Muslims > in general in context to > Indian subcontinent is full of waging wars, destroying/looting > properties and temples. Texts such as > Akabar Nama or Aurngzeb-nama or any other nama describes in details > how Muslim invaders' sole motivation was terrorizing & wiping out > Hindu kingdoms. "Terror" or terrorizing others is not alien to > Muslims. It has been their easy escape to > competition,injustice,imperialism or whatever. If in doubts, refer > books which will precisely point out every single invasion and > accounts of > destruction or even verse of the namas that praise those acts. > > Now lets talk about a Hindu. When was the last time a Hindu invaded, > deliberately planned destruction of anyone ? Despite centuries of > oppression, slavery, > rapes and murders of their woman ? Can anyone enlighten me ? > > The idea of inflicting violence/harm to others is TOTALLY "alien" to > Hindus. We are the people with "Forget and forgive" attitude not because > we > are cowards/incapable but our ancient texts teaches us to live life that > way. > > So, when some half-learned, self-appointed scholars associate the word > "terror" > with Hindu it is no surprise that lot of people get uncomfortable. Can > one of these self-proclaimed > scholar explain me suddenly how and specially why "now" Hindu > mentality changed particularly in a "liberated", democratic India when > misery > of Hindus is no where close to as in their worst times. > > Actually by doing this(associating word "terror" with Hindu) > stupid,careless and mind-less media is fermenting a divide in > the society and pushing very silent and moderate sections of Hindu > society towards > the right. > > The least I expect from every Hindu to understand this. > > -- > Thank you, > Jigish Parikh. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 23:49:24 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:19:24 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? References: <96B7E54FD5FA40569F5816E41D748052@shabori> Message-ID: I agree with you. As I said in my mail and you missed it, we in the subcontinent discriminate against whoever we can. I was neither speaking about the specific country nor specific religion in my mail. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jigish Parikh To: TaraPrakash Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? Tara, The theory of descrimination against Muslims in India is baseless, a tool invented to gather support based on religious lines. How do you explain Mr. Kalaam becoming president or Mr. Hamid Ansari becoming vice-president? How do you explain Shabbir Hussain Shekhadam Khandwawala, new Gujarat Police chief appointed by Mr. Narendra Modi himself ? Want more examples ? Email me, I will send you a list. Unable able to compete and excel, wanting to blame that to something, Muslims cry foul about discrimation. In reality it is not as much claimed. It is unfortunate that people start believing media without doing their own reading and research. That includes the so called "intellactual" elite Hindus who are far away from reality. Only hope is they start seeing clear someday. Jigish. 2010/2/21 TaraPrakash I was born a Hindu and never went through convertion. I have read a lot of Hindu scriptures. I don't think forgetting and forgiving a good virtue. However, I was overwhelmed and struck by a respectable christian woman whose husband was killed by Bajrang Dal activists and she forgave the murderers of her husband. Priyanka Gandhi also offered some generous forgiving gestures towards an accomplice in her father's assassination but some mails on this list have suggested in the past that Priyanka is not a hindu I think Mother Terresa is also a good example of people who could forget and forgive. What is common in these 3 examples? They at least had one parent who was not born in Indian subcontinent. There is a religion common to all in the subcontinent. Whenever you can descriminate and work against the "other", enjoy doing it with ruthlessness. This is what the JDU BJP alliance did when they outsted an honest Muslim minister in Bihar when he raised his voice against corruption in the government. He was the "other" not only because he was a muslim but also because an unusual honest person among the clique of corrupt people. Shuddha and Javed might point towards descrimination against Muslims in India, I can also point towards descrimination against those who are minorities in the minority institutions. Take the case of a professor in Aligarh Muslim University. He was sacked for his alleged homosexual activities, not in the university, but at home. This professor is a minority because he is not a muslim and also because probably he is gay. So, if we have a common culture, it does not teach us to forget and forgive, it teaches to discriminate against the other. And remember the term originally was based on geography. based on Indus (sindhu) river so all in the subcontinent are Hindu. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jigish Parikh" To: Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:08 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? Shuddha, You raised a valid point about people getting worked up on specific words. Let me share my two cents on it. A well-read person would not question the fact that history of Muslims in general in context to Indian subcontinent is full of waging wars, destroying/looting properties and temples. Texts such as Akabar Nama or Aurngzeb-nama or any other nama describes in details how Muslim invaders' sole motivation was terrorizing & wiping out Hindu kingdoms. "Terror" or terrorizing others is not alien to Muslims. It has been their easy escape to competition,injustice,imperialism or whatever. If in doubts, refer books which will precisely point out every single invasion and accounts of destruction or even verse of the namas that praise those acts. Now lets talk about a Hindu. When was the last time a Hindu invaded, deliberately planned destruction of anyone ? Despite centuries of oppression, slavery, rapes and murders of their woman ? Can anyone enlighten me ? The idea of inflicting violence/harm to others is TOTALLY "alien" to Hindus. We are the people with "Forget and forgive" attitude not because we are cowards/incapable but our ancient texts teaches us to live life that way. So, when some half-learned, self-appointed scholars associate the word "terror" with Hindu it is no surprise that lot of people get uncomfortable. Can one of these self-proclaimed scholar explain me suddenly how and specially why "now" Hindu mentality changed particularly in a "liberated", democratic India when misery of Hindus is no where close to as in their worst times. Actually by doing this(associating word "terror" with Hindu) stupid,careless and mind-less media is fermenting a divide in the society and pushing very silent and moderate sections of Hindu society towards the right. The least I expect from every Hindu to understand this. -- Thank you, Jigish Parikh. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Thank you, Jigish Parikh. http://www.linkedin.com/in/parikhjigish From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 23:53:50 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:53:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: References: <96B7E54FD5FA40569F5816E41D748052@shabori> Message-ID: Dear Jigish I would say that discrimination is done in both positive and negative ways. The making of Kalam as president was in a specific context and an act of tokenism. The same can be said with respect to Ansari as vice-president of India or Pratibha Patil as the president. Today, Indian politics has been reduced to acts of tokenism, where everybody indulges in it. Right from ticket distribution to candidates on the basis of castes, to the selection of PM and ministers and even the president, tokenism has become a part and parcel of politics in our nation. The real problem is that acts of tokenism don't help. Just because a Muslim or a Yadav or an upper caste or a Dalit wins an election doesn't mean that the group she comes from has a better standard of living during the time she is a candidate. Except in certain cases, it will just remain that: a token act. Rakesh From parikhjigish at gmail.com Sun Feb 21 23:34:14 2010 From: parikhjigish at gmail.com (Jigish Parikh) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:04:14 -0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? In-Reply-To: <96B7E54FD5FA40569F5816E41D748052@shabori> References: <96B7E54FD5FA40569F5816E41D748052@shabori> Message-ID: Tara, The theory of descrimination against Muslims in India is baseless, a tool invented to gather support based on religious lines. How do you explain Mr. Kalaam becoming president or Mr. Hamid Ansari becoming vice-president? How do you explain Shabbir Hussain Shekhadam Khandwawala, new Gujarat Police chief appointed by Mr. Narendra Modi himself ? Want more examples ? Email me, I will send you a list. Unable able to compete and excel, wanting to blame that to something, Muslims cry foul about discrimation. In reality it is not as much claimed. It is unfortunate that people start believing media without doing their own reading and research. That includes the so called "intellactual" elite Hindus who are far away from reality. Only hope is they start seeing clear someday. Jigish. 2010/2/21 TaraPrakash > I was born a Hindu and never went through convertion. I have read a lot of > Hindu scriptures. I don't think forgetting and forgiving a good virtue. > However, I was overwhelmed and struck by a respectable christian woman whose > husband was killed by Bajrang Dal activists and she forgave the murderers of > her husband. > Priyanka Gandhi also offered some generous forgiving gestures towards an > accomplice in her father's assassination but some mails on this list have > suggested in the past that Priyanka is not a hindu > > I think Mother Terresa is also a good example of people who could forget > and forgive. What is common in these 3 examples? They at least had one > parent who was not born in Indian subcontinent. > > There is a religion common to all in the subcontinent. Whenever you can > descriminate and work against the "other", enjoy doing it with ruthlessness. > This is what the JDU BJP alliance did when they outsted an honest Muslim > minister in Bihar when he raised his voice against corruption in the > government. He was the "other" not only because he was a muslim but also > because an unusual honest person among the clique of corrupt people. > > > Shuddha and Javed might point towards descrimination against Muslims in > India, I can also point towards descrimination against those who are > minorities in the minority institutions. Take the case of a professor in > Aligarh Muslim University. He was sacked for his alleged homosexual > activities, not in the university, but at home. This professor is a minority > because he is not a muslim and also because probably he is gay. > > So, if we have a common culture, it does not teach us to forget and > forgive, it teaches to discriminate against the other. And remember the term > originally was based on geography. based on Indus (sindhu) river so all in > the subcontinent are Hindu. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jigish Parikh" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:08 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror? > > > Shuddha, >> >> You raised a valid point about people getting worked up >> on specific words. Let me share my two cents on it. >> A well-read person would not question the fact that history of Muslims >> in general in context to >> Indian subcontinent is full of waging wars, destroying/looting >> properties and temples. Texts such as >> Akabar Nama or Aurngzeb-nama or any other nama describes in details >> how Muslim invaders' sole motivation was terrorizing & wiping out >> Hindu kingdoms. "Terror" or terrorizing others is not alien to >> Muslims. It has been their easy escape to >> competition,injustice,imperialism or whatever. If in doubts, refer >> books which will precisely point out every single invasion and >> accounts of >> destruction or even verse of the namas that praise those acts. >> >> Now lets talk about a Hindu. When was the last time a Hindu invaded, >> deliberately planned destruction of anyone ? Despite centuries of >> oppression, slavery, >> rapes and murders of their woman ? Can anyone enlighten me ? >> >> The idea of inflicting violence/harm to others is TOTALLY "alien" to >> Hindus. We are the people with "Forget and forgive" attitude not because >> we >> are cowards/incapable but our ancient texts teaches us to live life that >> way. >> >> So, when some half-learned, self-appointed scholars associate the word >> "terror" >> with Hindu it is no surprise that lot of people get uncomfortable. Can >> one of these self-proclaimed >> scholar explain me suddenly how and specially why "now" Hindu >> mentality changed particularly in a "liberated", democratic India when >> misery >> of Hindus is no where close to as in their worst times. >> >> Actually by doing this(associating word "terror" with Hindu) >> stupid,careless and mind-less media is fermenting a divide in >> the society and pushing very silent and moderate sections of Hindu >> society towards >> the right. >> >> The least I expect from every Hindu to understand this. >> >> -- >> Thank you, >> Jigish Parikh. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > -- Thank you, Jigish Parikh. http://www.linkedin.com/in/parikhjigish From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 10:05:29 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:05:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Afghanistan's "national heroes" Message-ID: Amnesty and justice in Afghanistan: "a nose made of dough" Author: Aziz Hakimi Summary: In a bid to sweeten talks with disaffected Taliban, Karzai has revived a controversial amnesty law praising the mujahedin as national heroes while ignoring their crimes. If enforced, hopes that the toppling of the Taliban in 2001 might still bring about government in line with justice, democracy and respect for human rights will again be dashed, says Aziz Hakimi -------------------- British newspapers including The Guardian [1] recently reported that a controversial amnesty law, approved by Afghanistan parliament, is being brought into force without having been announced in the weeks leading up to the London Conference on Afghanistan. The amnesty precludes prosecution for war crimes committed in conflicts during previous decades. The amnesty law, under the title of the ³national peace and reconciliation charter², was shelved for almost two years after being passed by a small majority in January 2007 by both the Afghan house of representatives and the senate. Although Afghan President Hamid Karzai was reported [2] to have approved the law in March 2007, hailing it as ³Parliament¹s initiative for strengthening peace in Afghanistan², the fate of the law remained unclear until recently, with no reference to it in the Afghan Law Gazette. In Afghanistan, publicising the document in the publicly available Law Gazette is typically a prerequisite to the enforcement of any law. However, this particular volume of The Afghan Law Gazette is not yet accessible to public; another unusual step in Afghanistan. Responding to Human Rights Watch [3]'s controversial 2006 report that had once again accused the Mujahedin leaders of war crimes, the amnesty law was designed to protect these still powerful figures from trial. Thus, the very first article of this 12-point charter calls for respect of ³Jihad, resistance and the righteous struggles² of the Afghan people and says: ³The Soldiers [of Jihad and resistance] must be valued and treated appropriately in the framework of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and be protected from any type of bother.² The third article refers explicitely to the Human Rights report, stating, ³The inaccurate reports of Human Rights Watch, published with regard to the Jihadi leaders and Afghan national characters are originated from suspicious intentions and thus Afghanistan National Shura [Parliament] announces them as baseless.² The fourth article states that all armed insurgents, by joining the ³national recounciliation process² will enjoy impunity. The law emphasizes that ³no political group is excluded from this charter². Accordingly, the document is considered by many legal experts as contradicting the international conventions that Afghanistan has ratified. Amnesty International has urged [4] President Hamid Karzai and the Afghan parliament to immediately suspend this controversial piece of legislation. Amnesty International and other human rights organisations, including the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), have criticised this attempt to provide legal impunity to perpetrators of human rights violations, including the Taliban. South African Reconciliation Experience The Afghan amnesty law refers to similar processes in other post-conflict states, particularly the South African reconciliation process which is considered to be a relatively successful programme. In South Africa the Truth and Reconciliation Commission [5] (TRC) was a court-like body that was formed after the abolition of apartheid. Witnesses who were identified as victims of gross human rights violations were invited to give statements about their experiences, and some were invited to public hearings. Perpetrators of violence could also give testimony and request amnesty from both civil and criminal prosecution. The condition of giving amnesty to the perpetrators was their admission to the crimes they had committed under political (and not personal) motivations. Rather than retribution, the objective was to document and publicise the crimes and atrocities that had occurred during apartheid. In addition, the commission gave compensation to the victims in the name of restorative justice. The Afghan amnesty law, by contrast, makes no mention of the suffering of Afghan people who were subjected to frequent violations of their human rights during the past two and half decades. Nor does it speak of any aspiration to see justice for those who lost their beloveds in the atrocities perpetrated by different Mujahedin groups as well as the Taliban and other regimes. Instead it asks these victims to look upon the Mujahedin as their national heroes and to never question their deeds. Brad Adams, the Asia director of Human Rights Watch, told The Guardian that the law was a "total abdication of the state's responsibility to investigate and prosecute crimes". He added that although the law only protects offenders from prosecution by the state, it is unlikely that individuals would pursue private cases "in the current context of impunity and the very real fears of reprisal". Another incentive for the Taliban? President Karzai¹s decision to enforce the law is related to the recent reconciliation plans to persuade the Taliban to lay down arms; efforts that the Taliban have already rejected [6] as ³futile² and ³farcical². Karzai appears to be surrendering the right to justice in a political gamble endorsed by a naïve international community. Afghans are concerned that neither the recent peace plans nor the implementation of the amnesty law can persuade the Taliban to end their fight. In contrast, implementing the amnesty law has the potential to secure greater support for the Taliban at the local level. Karzai and his team must be reminded that back in 1994, the then tiny Taliban led by Mullah Omar won the support of locals when they rioted against a local warlord in Kandahar. Almost nine years after their misrule was ended, locals in many villages prefer the Taliban because they are sickened by the high level of corruption, failed judicial systems and widespread impunity that local public officials are granted. President Karzai¹s decisions seem to be illogical. Many Afghans are puzzled as to why Karzai and his team believe they can buy off the Taliban at a time when NATO commanders themselves admit that the insurgents are at the peak of their strength. Although the insurgents know that they cannot win the battle through conventional military advances, they are well aware of the effectiveness of their ongoing war of attrition. They are also aware that public support for sending forces to Afghanistan is plummeting among ISAF partners and that the major powers are deliberating on a swift exit strategy. Moreover, the Taliban will not compromise their existence by accepting peace offers. From the Taliban's perspective, the government¹s conditions for talks ­ laying down arms and accepting the very same Afghan Constitution they consider un-Islamic and fight to change ­ are tantamount to surrender. Desperate measures Furthermore, implementing the amnesty law legalizes the culture of impunity, shields former warlords against any criticism, ignores the voices raised by both international and national organizations on human rights conditions and justice in the country and disappoints more Afghans who hoped that they would, one day, witness the rule of law in their war-torn country. Desperate measures to bring peace and stability will result in nothing more than what we Afghans call ³a nose made of dough², one that only fills an ugly gap, but is useless for smelling and breathing. From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Feb 22 12:20:23 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:20:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Trickster City : Review Message-ID: <18B3A584-9A0E-4CE9-9F69-1E6C20CAF3EE@sarai.net> http://www.timeoutdelhi.net/books/book_feature_details.asp?code=86 Tricks of light A group of Delhi writers from the working class brings you closer to the Indian metropolis than you've ever been, says Raghu Karnad. Photograph by Paroma Mukherjee. Last September, an editor of the newsweekly Open, Hartosh Singh Bal, posted a typically provocational editorial on the magazine’s website. His wildly fired broadside accused Indian English fiction writers, “living in south Delhi and south Mumbai, writing for each other”, of being effete and lacking the guts to grapple with modern India. The names on the comment-stream that followed on Open’s website were like a roster of Delhi literati, who lined up to give Bal an eloquent thumping. Still, the episode exposed a nervousness in Indian English publishing, that for all the reviews and longlists, the writing just wasn’t catching fire. This fear is coldest in Delhi, which is quickly growing as both a source and a subject of writing in English. It’s a hell of atmosphere in which to encounter Trickster City. In 2005, eight Delhi writers began meeting to discuss how to write about the city. The congregations were part of the CyberMohalla labs organised by Sarai and the Ankur Society for Alternatives in Education. The question of how to write Delhi was an urgent one , as the still-vague idea of the Commonwealth Games was starting to reshape the city in very real ways. The writers’ group grew and continued meeting: men and women, all Hindi-speaking, all below 30, all residents of that other Delhi, the city of the tenth-pass, the vocational course and the government OPD. Scenes, questions and pieces of overheard conversation ricocchetted between them. Then, in early 2006 came a tragedy that scorched the book they would eventually write together. The High Court ordered the demolition of Nangla Maanchi, a slum colony on the Yamuna’s east bank. Some parts of it were bulldozed. Perhaps 30,000 people were displaced. A few of the writers had lived there, and they all haunted the place as the MCD and police slowly ground a living town into a mess of crushed brick and plastic sheeting. Visthapan, or displacement, became a hot word in their conversations. In 2007 Bahurupiya Shahar (Shape-Shifting City) was published by Rajkamal Publications. This fortnight, as part of Sarai’s decennial celebration, it will be released in English as Trickster City. It is a collection of short pieces – “part reportage, part fiction, part conversation, part Sufiana poetry”, according to contributor Love Anand. The way Trickster City pours light on the Indian megacity feels similar to how Arun Kolatkar’s Jejuri made the Indian pilgrimage town visible, using a mix of mockery, devotion, observed detail and vast imagination. The marvel of this book is difficult to pinpoint. It has a richness of recorded detail from the belly of a modern Indian metropolis. Its emotional range is large, from humour (as in the opening story, Jaanu Nagar’s Delhi Liner) to empathy (Neelofar’s My Mother’s Dread) to essay (Suraj Rai’s Having Seen it From Close). There is the sustained vitality of its translation into English by Shveta Sarda. Perhaps most impressive is the fact that Trickster City has no bad guys, not the police, not the state, not even the bulldozers. Whatever its literary strengths, any reader accustomed to Indian English writing is likely to approach Trickster City like a meaning- loaded dance with difference. The different-ness of the authors can seem like the key, the lock and the room, all at once. But to them it is beside the point. The book is not based on a partition between any worlds, said Anand. The writers all agreed that it wasn’t written as a message to either the elite or the downtrodden, but rather to the stranger who is everybody else and even part of oneself. “You haven’t picked up a stranger’s book,” said Nagar, who lived in Nangla Maanchi after moving to Delhi. “Or you have, but it’s a stranger like you find when you’re crossing the Ring Road, feeling the velocity of the cars going past. Then your hand reaches for a stranger’s hand to help you cross. They say in Delhi there are no red lights, there are only the hands of strangers.” But there’s no point saying their difference is irrelevant. Much Delhi writing has tried reaching down from above, to grasp at the experience of the non-elite, most famously the Booker Prize-winning White Tiger. This book seems to lay its hand directly on the flesh and nerve that is the human content of Delhi. The fact that CyberMohalla incubates this kind of creativity is a reminder that Sarai, whose publishing flies high over most people’s heads, is doing work that’s utterly relevant. Their difference also shows in the introspection that accompanied their writing. “Many people write in this city,” Nagar said. “People write in shop ledgers, write FIRs, write the change they owe you on your bus ticket. But I think a writer could be a person who uses words to expand his world.” To illustrate, he describes a day during the demolition of Nangla. “I approached a man sitting on the rubble that was his house, and I asked him to sing a song for me. He said, god, how can I sing now? I told him to sing such a good song that even that much sadness would be forgotten. So he sang, and he became a writer, writing over his own heart.” Nangla and visthapan do persist at the heart of this book, figuratively and literally (in a tour de force middle chapter). But the point that the writers make with it is subtle, sometimes even uplifting. Shamsher Ali recalled a line by co-contributor Suraj Rai: “He said, how a house is built can be understood only in the moment in which it is destroyed.” Even the demolition is recruited into an understanding of the spirit that builds a city, a sentiment held by the epigraph of Trickster City: “So that affection for the city endures.” Trickster City, Penguin, Rs 499. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 22 14:40:15 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:10:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] PICS: Dongria Kondh Tribe protest against Vedanta Resources Message-ID: <721138.90792.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Members of the Dongria Kondh tribe gather on top of the Niyamgiri mountain, which they worship as their living god, to protest against plans by Vedanta Resources to mine bauxite from that mountain February 21, 2010. Vedanta has denied allegations that its planned bauxite mine in eastern India would violate the rights of thousands of poor indigenous tribes people, saying that all its projects are conducted within the law and using international best practices.   http://iplextra.indiatimes.com/photo/02jEg5vg5A2SD   From patrice at xs4all.nl Mon Feb 22 14:50:40 2010 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:20:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Van Dijk and Sridharan on Kalyan-Dombivli 's "urbanized society?" Message-ID: <52b5340d56cb7e6c68c2a0d01e4b07ce.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Hiya, Currently going thru a most interesting article on social & economic developments in this Mumbai suburb: http://newurbanquestion.ifou.org/proceedings/index.html#3 (you have to jump to their article: The Urbanized Society‎: "Profile of an 'Urbanized Society'? Slums, Gauthans, and 'Lifestyle City' in Kalyan-Dombivli, India" Part of the 4th Conference of the International Forum on Urbanism (IFoU), Amsterdam, November 2009 (http://newurbanquestion.ifou.org/) Cheers, p+3D! From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 22 15:47:35 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:17:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] use of "visually impaired" to abuse In-Reply-To: <341380d01002180649o7719f770geeb0731c7333774@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <682334.26051.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Anupam is not being factual when he says I told him "to call a spade, a spade".   Its been some years since I last used that phrase when I became aware that it suggests a racial slur against African-Americans.   But I am sure that Anupam's use of that phrase was not motivated by the sense of it being a slur but he used it in a purely literary fashion.   Similarly I am sure that Anupam's deriding me as being "visually impaired" was not meant to suggest that the "visually impaired" are foolish. Again the usage was in a purely literary fashion.   What amuses me is that this very same Anupam was looking at the narrowest of definitions of words when I pointed out to him that there was no contradiction (as suggested by him) in a news report that was being discussed and that there was a (literary)  {possibility of the one "overpowered", "attacked", "looted", "stormed" need not have been inflicted with "physical, moral, or mental" injury}. Anupam had been kind enough to refer me to a dictionary-weblink and made me aware that I would have the added benefit of it giving me the pronunciation.   Kshmendra   PS. There are divided opinions over the history of the phrase "calling a spade a spade". There is no disagreement on this that it was used as a racial slur against African-Americans. There are opinions that its use as a racial slur was predated by the simple thought that a spade should be called a spade instead of it being called a shovel, suggesting plainspeake.   --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: use of "visually impaired" to abuse To: "Tara Prakash" Cc: "Kshmendra Kaul" , "sarai list" Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 8:19 PM Dear Taraprakash, I apologise if I had hurt your sensibilities but It was Kshmendra who had in earlier exchange of mails told me to call spade, a spade. Therefore, i think the analogy still stands not as an abuse but a way of extending help to those who have eyes but still pretend that they are visually impaired. While, there could be many who are actually visually impaired but know what some words mean. Regards Anupam On 2/18/10, Tara Prakash wrote: > I think I missed the mail which Kshmendra is responding to. Oh yes, this > guys gets filtered out of my inbox. > But I would like moderators to be watchful. There are people who are using > insensitive abuses towards a specific community. Even though blind/visually > impaired do not fall within the dominant structure of backward, in fact > disabled people have been kept out of it for political purposes, they have > right to remain as sensitive to discrimnatory language as the other other > groups discriminated against by the society. > Calling someone who ignores or do not understand a mail or some parts of it, > "visually impaired" is abusive as it associates blindness with foolishness. > My fear is that if people are not stopped from using insensitive language > towards a section of the society, that has as much right to command respect > as any other group, the future mails on this list may get worse. I don't > like people being called blind/visually impaired to abuse as much as I don't > like people being called bhangi, chamar, katva, hijra and other insensitive > terms which are part of everyday lexicon on the streets in India. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kshmendra Kaul" > To: "anupam chakravartty" > Cc: "sarai list" > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket > wasfor protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) > > >> Dear Anupam >> >> My apologies for my being visually impaired. >> >> You found a contradiction between "overpower" and "unharmed". I tried >> explaining how it was not unnatural for the two to go together. >> >> Now you bring in the words "attack", "loot", "stormed". >> >> For each one of these words also, if you patiently go through the very >> links that you yourself have provided you will find alternatives of >> meanings which contain the possibility of the one "overpowered", >> "attacked", "looted", "stormed" need not have been inflicted with >> "physical, moral, or mental" injury. >> >> Detailing those meanings for you is going to be a waste of time. I say >> that on the basis of the arrogant and confrontational tone you have >> adopted. The same goes for discussing this any further with you. >> >> There is a saying in Punjabi?/Hindi? which I am unable to translate but >> which you might get explained to you for it aptly describes the state of >> your mind. It is: >> >> " khisiani billi, khambaa nochay" >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> >> From: anupam chakravartty >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >> was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >> To: "Kshmendra Kaul" >> Cc: "Aditya Raj Kaul" , "sarai list" >> >> Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 3:51 PM >> >> >> Dear Kshmendra, >> >> I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I >> had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. >> I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which >> completely changes the context in which the news report was written. >> However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of >> force and that too physical: >> >> The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." >> >> at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack >> >> Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you >> pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. >> Similarly, you could follow this link: >> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot to find the meaning of >> the word 'loot'. >> >> Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up >> for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in >> Pulwama district of south Kashmir." >> >> A word that has been used to describe what you think was an >> overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the >> meaning of the word 'storm': >> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' >> was used. >> >> The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed >> to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which >> is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that >> happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with >> two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or >> even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when >> written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended >> from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is: 4.25 KG (9.4 LB) >> empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg >> (8.8–9.8 lb). >> >> Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example >> of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were >> "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we >> do not what this word means, I have heard these words used >> consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the >> media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to >> really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. >> >> Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these >> terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this >> policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these >> policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their >> presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level >> inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen >> should start in this case. >> >> I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the >> same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in >> highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. >> >> -Anupam >> >> On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >>> Dear Anupam >>> >>> Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict >>> yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. >>> >>> "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting >>> moral or mental injury. The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers >>> in >>> a ring. >>> >>> Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make >>> helpless >>> or ineffective. >>> >>> You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. >>> >>> >>> Kshmendra >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: anupam chakravartty >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >>> was >>> for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >>> To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" >>> Cc: "sarai list" >>> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM >>> >>> >>> The report in the beginning says: >>> >>> "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora >>> in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the >>> policemen, official sources said today. >>> >>> Overpower: o·ver·pow·er (vr-pour) >>> tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers >>> 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. >>> 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. >>> 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. >>> >>> And then we have: >>> >>> "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, >>> they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly >>> gone home unauthorisedly." >>> >>> unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental >>> injury >>> >>> It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not >>> well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the >>> reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to >>> believe? >>> >>> -Thanks >>> Anupam >>> >>> On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>>> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >>>> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >>>> >>>> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >>>> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >>>> Kashmi >>>> >>>> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora in >>>> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >>>> official sources said today. >>>> >>>> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two >>>> SLRs >>>> -- >>>> along with some ammunition. >>>> >>>> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, they >>>> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone >>>> home >>>> unauthorisedly. >>>> >>>> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and >>>> a >>>> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >>>> weapons, the sources said. >>>> >>>> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a departmental >>>> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >>>> >>>> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the valley. >>>> >>>> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >>>> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe >>>> in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe >>> in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From monica at sarai.net Mon Feb 22 16:24:24 2010 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:24:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Don't touch that dial! Message-ID: <7C74083F-CABB-4D1F-9664-25D3FA869A35@sarai.net> Don't Touch That Dial! A history of media technology scares, from the printing press to Facebook. http://www.slate.com/id/2244198/pagenum/all/ Monica Narula Raqs Media Collective Sarai-CSDS www.raqsmediacollective.net www.sarai.net From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Feb 22 16:29:03 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?[the=5Fnetwork}?=) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:59:03 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?NMF=272010_-_program_preview_-_week_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?09?= Message-ID: <20100222115904.CE6210E0.27A65865@192.168.0.2> NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January - 31 December 2010 ---------------------------------------- Program preview of week 09 - 22-28 February 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=608 Feature of the week 09 JavaMuseum - I-Highway - netart from Canada (2003) more details on http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=603 ----------------------------------------- Program of today - 22 February 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?p=602 ----------------------------------------- NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org calls for entries --> for NewMediaFest'2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org/?page_id=78 newmediafest2010 [at] koeln.de ---------------------------------------------------- Join NewMediaFest'2010 on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=404197070650 ---------------------------------------------------- From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:50:16 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:50:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] use of "visually impaired" to abuse In-Reply-To: <682334.26051.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <341380d01002180649o7719f770geeb0731c7333774@mail.gmail.com> <682334.26051.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002220320q7b09ddb5ya3b5d7b938d7216e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, I can very well cite number of instances when you have responded to my mails using this analogy of "calling spade, a spade". Since, it is very typical way of you to eat up your own words and I know I am not the only victim here on this reader's list of your self-contradictions, so I would not like to pursue it further. It is pointless. I am not here doubting or discussing or even learning from you because of some great personal ego kick. Second, I think I would not subscribe to your "overpower = subdue = overwhelm" analogy for the incident that took place in South Kashmir especially when I am reporting about an incident. I avoid synonyms because they essentially change meanings even in the subtlest ways. You have not been able to provide any wider meaning for the words such as ‘attack’, ‘loot’ or ‘storm’ in context of this very incident therefore I think the “narrower dictionary” versions still apply here. You may be right but you are not informed about this particular incident. That has been proven and it is very much on the record. My doubts came in form of the questions posed to another reader who had taken the pains to post this news item. You were not a party to it but you had to intervene with your ‘thesaurus’. I may have called you visually impaired but as opposed to what Taraprakash pointed out, it wasn’t meant to indicate foolishness. I had no intentions of evoking an erstwhile linguistic debate on African-American racial slur when I made references to the analogy of “calling spade, a spade”, used more than once. As a reporter, I took this as an advice from your side that should ideally reflect on my reports or my writings. I did really apply it also taking a lot of things with a pinch of salt and learning also. I look forward to fruitful interactions with you Kshmendra and that is all about it. -Anupam On 2/22/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Anupam is not being factual when he says I told him "to call a spade, a > spade". > > Its been some years since I last used that phrase when I became aware that > it suggests a racial slur against African-Americans. > > But I am sure that Anupam's use of that phrase was not motivated by the > sense of it being a slur but he used it in a purely literary fashion. > > Similarly I am sure that Anupam's deriding me as being "visually impaired" > was not meant to suggest that the "visually impaired" are foolish. Again the > usage was in a purely literary fashion. > > What amuses me is that this very same Anupam was looking at the narrowest of > definitions of words when I pointed out to him that there was no > contradiction (as suggested by him) in a news report that was being > discussed and that there was a (literary)  {possibility of the one > "overpowered", "attacked", "looted", "stormed" need not have been inflicted > with "physical, moral, or mental" injury}. > > Anupam had been kind enough to refer me to a dictionary-weblink and made me > aware that I would have the added benefit of it giving me the pronunciation. > > Kshmendra > > PS. There are divided opinions over the history of the phrase "calling a > spade a spade". There is no disagreement on this that it was used as a > racial slur against African-Americans. There are opinions that its use as a > racial slur was predated by the simple thought that a spade should be called > a spade instead of it being called a shovel, suggesting plainspeake. > > > --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: use of "visually impaired" to abuse > To: "Tara Prakash" > Cc: "Kshmendra Kaul" , "sarai list" > > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 8:19 PM > > > Dear Taraprakash, > > I apologise if I had hurt your sensibilities but It was Kshmendra who > had in earlier exchange of mails told me to call spade, a spade. > Therefore, i think the analogy still stands not as an abuse but a way > of extending help to those who have eyes but still pretend that they > are visually impaired. While, there could be many who are actually > visually impaired but know what some words mean. > > Regards > Anupam > > On 2/18/10, Tara Prakash wrote: >> I think I missed the mail which Kshmendra is responding to. Oh yes, this >> guys gets filtered out of my inbox. >> But I would like moderators to be watchful. There are people who are using >> insensitive abuses towards a specific community. Even though >> blind/visually >> impaired do not fall within the dominant structure of backward, in fact >> disabled people have been kept out of it for political purposes, they have >> right to remain as sensitive to discrimnatory language as the other other >> groups discriminated against by the society. >> Calling someone who ignores or do not understand a mail or some parts of >> it, >> "visually impaired" is abusive as it associates blindness with >> foolishness. >> My fear is that if people are not stopped from using insensitive language >> towards a section of the society, that has as much right to command >> respect >> as any other group, the future mails on this list may get worse. I don't >> like people being called blind/visually impaired to abuse as much as I >> don't >> like people being called bhangi, chamar, katva, hijra and other >> insensitive >> terms which are part of everyday lexicon on the streets in India. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kshmendra Kaul" >> To: "anupam chakravartty" >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >> wasfor protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >> >> >>> Dear Anupam >>> >>> My apologies for my being visually impaired. >>> >>> You found a contradiction between "overpower" and "unharmed". I tried >>> explaining how it was not unnatural for the two to go together. >>> >>> Now you bring in the words "attack", "loot", "stormed". >>> >>> For each one of these words also, if you patiently go through the very >>> links that you yourself have provided you will find alternatives of >>> meanings which contain the possibility of the one "overpowered", >>> "attacked", "looted", "stormed" need not have been inflicted with >>> "physical, moral, or mental" injury. >>> >>> Detailing those meanings for you is going to be a waste of time. I say >>> that on the basis of the arrogant and confrontational tone you have >>> adopted. The same goes for discussing this any further with you. >>> >>> There is a saying in Punjabi?/Hindi? which I am unable to translate but >>> which you might get explained to you for it aptly describes the state of >>> your mind. It is: >>> >>> " khisiani billi, khambaa nochay" >>> >>> Kshmendra >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 2/18/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: anupam chakravartty >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >>> was for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >>> To: "Kshmendra Kaul" >>> Cc: "Aditya Raj Kaul" , "sarai list" >>> >>> Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 3:51 PM >>> >>> >>> Dear Kshmendra, >>> >>> I am sorry if you are visually impaired. I did not know this. I wish I >>> had a software by which I could read out the news report in question. >>> I understand that overpowered could also mean overwhelmed, which >>> completely changes the context in which the news report was written. >>> However, let's see a list of words being used here to indicate use of >>> force and that too physical: >>> >>> The headline: "Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons." >>> >>> at⋅tack: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attack >>> >>> Please follow link I have posted, it will not only give you >>> pronunciation but this word connotes will also be read out to you. >>> Similarly, you could follow this link: >>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot to find the meaning of >>> the word 'loot'. >>> >>> Let's come to the lead now: "Militants stormed a police post set up >>> for protection of a minority community and looted five rifles in >>> Pulwama district of south Kashmir." >>> >>> A word that has been used to describe what you think was an >>> overwhelming presence is 'stormed'. This link will take you the >>> meaning of the word 'storm': >>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stormed . Again the word 'loot' >>> was used. >>> >>> The report also suggests that these men were heavily armed and managed >>> to carry three Insas and two SLRs (how many we still do not know which >>> is understandable as the policemen were shocked. But an incident that >>> happened for the first time in several years in Kashmir valley, with >>> two policemen unharmed and they still could not describe the number or >>> even indicate strength for the gathering is absolutely bogus, when >>> written in a report). The heavily armed men (looks like they descended >>> from Mars) took The weight of one Insas rifle is: 4.25 KG (9.4 LB) >>> empty 4.6 KG (10.1 LB) loaded. The weight of one SLR: 4.0–4.45 kg >>> (8.8–9.8 lb). >>> >>> Also if we again go by this report and your inference from the example >>> of the two wrestlers, Kshmendra, after the policemen were >>> "overwhelmed" by the presence of the heavily armed men, the ultras (we >>> do not what this word means, I have heard these words used >>> consistently by security establishment which injects the same to the >>> media. the media reporting insurgency has never ever been able to >>> really gather what an ultra really means) ran away. >>> >>> Let us get to the bottom of this issue instead of assuming that these >>> terrorists were some really tough guys who made minnows out of this >>> policemen or they had some charm with them to have hypnotized these >>> policemen . If the security officials were really overwhelmed by their >>> presence, then not just a departmental inquiry but a high level >>> inquiry to find out the links between the militants and policemen >>> should start in this case. >>> >>> I am also grateful to Aditya for posting this news report but at the >>> same I hope that he uses his own discretion and his experience in >>> highlighting such issues by thoroughly investigating them. >>> >>> -Anupam >>> >>> On 2/18/10, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >>>> Dear Anupam >>>> >>>> Where are the 'two different scenarios' being presented? You contradict >>>> yourself by the very definitions that you yourself have provided. >>>> >>>> "Overpower" does not neccessarily mean causing bodily harm or inflicting >>>> moral or mental injury. The easiest example to give is of two wrestlers >>>> in >>>> a ring. >>>> >>>> Overpower = subdue = overwhelm = To affect so strongly as to make >>>> helpless >>>> or ineffective. >>>> >>>> You can be 'overpowered' and be simultaneously 'left unharmed'. >>>> >>>> >>>> Kshmendra >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Wed, 2/17/10, anupam chakravartty wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: anupam chakravartty >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Terrorists attack police post (Police Picket >>>> was >>>> for protection of minority Kashmiri Pandits) >>>> To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" >>>> Cc: "sarai list" >>>> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 4:43 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> The report in the beginning says: >>>> >>>> "A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora >>>> in Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the >>>> policemen, official sources said today. >>>> >>>> Overpower: o·ver·pow·er (vr-pour) >>>> tr.v. o·ver·pow·ered, o·ver·pow·er·ing, o·ver·pow·ers >>>> 1. To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. >>>> 2. To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm. >>>> 3. To supply with excessive mechanical power. >>>> >>>> And then we have: >>>> >>>> "Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, >>>> they said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly >>>> gone home unauthorisedly." >>>> >>>> unharmed [ʌnˈhɑːmd] adj not having sustained physical, moral, or mental >>>> injury >>>> >>>> It is not my intention to doubt PTI's take. Sometimes stringers not >>>> well versed with the language makes these mistakes. But here the >>>> reporter is showing absolutely two different scenarios. Which one to >>>> believe? >>>> >>>> -Thanks >>>> Anupam >>>> >>>> On 2/17/10, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>>>> Militants attack police post in Kashmir, loot weapons*PTI >>>>> Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:00 IST* >>>>> >>>>> *Srinagar: *Militants stormed a police post set up for protection of a >>>>> minority community and looted five rifles in Pulwama district of south >>>>> Kashmi >>>>> >>>>> A group of heavily armed militants stormed the police post at Midoora >>>>> in >>>>> Tral belt, 40 km from here, last night and overpowered the policemen, >>>>> official sources said today. >>>>> >>>>> They said the ultras ran away with five rifles - three Insas and two >>>>> SLRs >>>>> -- >>>>> along with some ammunition. >>>>> >>>>> Two policemen present at the time of the attack were left unharmed, >>>>> they >>>>> said. Three other policemen posted at the picket had reportedly gone >>>>> home >>>>> unauthorisedly. >>>>> >>>>> Soon after the incident, senior police officers rushed to the scene and >>>>> a >>>>> massive hunt was launched to nab the militants and recover the looted >>>>> weapons, the sources said. >>>>> >>>>> "All five policemen have been placed under suspension and a >>>>> departmental >>>>> inquiry ordered," the sources said. >>>>> >>>>> This is the first such incident in the last several years in the >>>>> valley. >>>>> >>>>> The police picket in Midoora was established over a decade ago for >>>>> protection of Kashmiri Pandits living in the village, the sources said. >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>>> subscribe >>>>> in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe >>>> in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 22 16:31:25 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:01:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "The exiles dreaming of a return to Kashmir" Message-ID: <449916.17711.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> DISCLAIMER: I may or may not, agree or disagree, in part or in full, with the comments and analyses in the article posted   Kshmendra     February 22, 2010 "The exiles dreaming of a return to Kashmir" By Andrew Buncombe   (The 400,000 Hindus driven out by Muslim extremists 20 years ago hope talks beginning this week will bring them a step closer to going home. But does it suit the Indian government to prolong their misery?)   Like all the others, Mharaj Kak remembers the date and he remembers the threat that changed their lives forever. He had been living with his extended family in Srinagar, their city-centre home, a five-storey wooden house in the centre of the city built by his great-grandfather.   "It was the night of 19 January 1990 when the mullahs told us all to leave the valley," he said. "We had to leave everything. There was a mass exodus. From all the mosques, there was this message sent throughout the valley that the Kashmiri Pandits had to leave immediately, or we would be killed."   So the Hindus of Kashmir, better known as the Kashmiri Pandits, were forced to flee the valley between the Great Himalayas and the Pir Panjal mountains in which their families had lived for centuries, driven out by Muslim extremists, and sometimes the Muslim neighbours they had lived alongside for generations. In just three months, more than 400,000 Hindus were scattered across India and beyond. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, were killed, and only about 60,000 stayed behind.   Two decades later, the government of India says it is determined to help those who want to return to the homes they were forced to leave. But the Pandits say the government does little but talk. It has provided no security, no homes, no livelihoods and put in place none of the confidence-building measures vital for them to feel able to make the journey back to Kashmir, they say. Even now, many are still enduring lives of quiet misery in inadequate refugee camps.   They believe that while the plight of the Muslim population of Kashmir, living in one of the most heavily militarised places on earth, continues to garner international attention, they have become the forgotten, overlooked people of history. Some even believe the Indian government has deliberately kept them impoverished to allow it to claim it is not just Muslims who have suffered in the struggle over Kashmir.   Ramesh Kumarana hung on until October 1990. By then, the threats and violence by militant groups such as Hizb-ul-Mujahideen came almost daily. One of his brothers was killed. He and his family had no alternative but to flee south. Today, the college-trained pharmacist who once ran his own business in Srinagar is among the Pandits who run tiny clothes-shops at a scruffy market in the centre of Delhi. To supplement his income, he sells bags of Kashmiri walnuts. He shrugs helplessly as he points to the way in which he is now forced to support his wife and two children.   "I am ready to go back to Kashmir, my heart is there," he said, standing next to his shop with his smiling 12-year-old son, Mohit. "It is my birthplace and I want to go back there. But my son was born in Delhi, it's my responsibility to take care of him. I visited Kashmir in 2003. They said, 'You can come but you are a tourist and you must then go back to India'. They called us 'Indian dogs'."   More than 60 years after Partition, the issue of Kashmir still burns like spilt acid, an enduring irritant to peace inside India and beyond. In 1947, Kashmir's Hindu ruler, Maharaja Hari Singh, surprised most observers when he decided that his Muslim-majority state should join the Hindu-majority India rather than the new state of Pakistan. And still the competing claims on the region continue to pull at the geopolitical fabric of South Asia. When Indian and Pakistani officials meet this week for resumption of talks halted after the Mumbai attacks of 2008, Kashmir will be among the first subjects raised.   Yet the issue that has largely dominated talk of Kashmir for the past two decades, since the Indian government responded to the militancy with one of the largest counter-insurgency operations in history, has been what sort of autonomy the valley could be afforded. During two decades of violence that has claimed at least 70,000 lives and created a population that suffers from record levels of anxiety and mental health problems, little thought appears to have been given to how the Pandits might fit in. Even now, much of the energy of the authorities appears to be taken up by an amnesty plan to allow militants who have crossed the de facto border, the Line of Control (LoC), into Pakistan-administered Kashmir, to return to their families.   The Indian authorities, which pay grants of about £50 a month to those forced to leave, insist they are working to help the Pandits. A spokesman for the federal Home Minister, P Chidambaram, said he was too busy to speak on the issue, but last November, while visiting new flats built for Pandit refugees in Jammu, he vowed: "Kashmiri Pandit migrants will be consulted on every issue regarding their return to the valley."   The attitude of the state government, headed by an energetic Chief Minister, Omar Abdullah, may be more forward-leaning. In an interview, he outlined several steps already taken to help Pandits return; 3,000 government jobs had been set aside and temporary accommodation built at two locations in the valley.   "I don't think my administration sees this issue any differently than the rest of the right-thinking people in the valley," he said. "We think the valley is incomplete without the Hindu Kashmiris. It has been the endeavour of governments since 1996 to create the circumstances to bring them back."   Asked whether the security existed for them to return, he added: "The proof of the pie is in the eating. There are still Kashmiri Pandits who never migrated and who have lived alongside the majority population."   Indeed, the antagonism between the Hindu and Muslim population that forced the Pandits to flee did not always exist, and few could have imagined the nature of the violence that erupted after the summer of 1989. Certainly, the two communities did not inter-marry, but they shared customs and traditions and were largely tolerant of each other.   The British writer, Justine Hardy, notes in her recent memoir on Kashmir's descent into violence, In the Valley of Mist: "The poetry of the valley's past is that it was heaven on earth, a place of such gentleness that those who lived there did so in harmony, most particularly the Muslims and Hindus, the doors of their homes open to each other, their festivals shared, some of their saints interchangeable."   Today, if it ever thus existed, such a relationship has been destroyed. But there are positive signs: in recent months, several long-closed Hindu temples have been restored and reopened, with the help of the Muslim community, and a key Hindu festival was celebrated in Srinagar for the first time 20 years. A Pandit organisation in the city hopes to reopen 60 more temples in the valley this year. Muslim leaders admit more needs to be done, both in providing homes and jobs and in building sufficient trust to persuade Hindus to return.   Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, leader of a coalition of separatist organisations, the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, said: "The issue of the return of the Pandits is very important. We cannot deny that they had to leave the valley in very difficult circumstances at a time when there was a lot of chaos."   Yet Mr Farooq rejected the idea made by some Pandits that a specially designated area for Hindus ought to be created. "[This is not] a religious issue," he said. "It's not Hindu India versus Muslim Kashmir. And their return to the valley should not be linked to the resolution of the broader issue of Kashmir's future."   Yet for the Pandits, a return to the valley is inextricably linked to the future of Kashmir. Why, they ask, would they return if they felt the future of Kashmir was not safe? SK Dudha, a leading member of the Pandit community in Delhi, said: "The changes have to be made. How else will people go back. There has to be the political will on the part of the government."   In the apparent stalemate, the Pandits feel lost, dreaming of the Kashmir they left and juggling with the challenges of the new lives they have made elsewhere. One of the toughest, they say, is to maintain their culture and language. Their children may be encouraged to speak Kashmiri in the home, but elsewhere they are bombarded with other tongues, other dialects. Already the diaspora has had to forgo its tradition of marrying only within the Pandit caste, such was the concern about the threat to the future of the community.   Occasions at which the community comes together include the religious festivals it has traditionally marked. On a recent afternoon in the Lajpat Nagar neighbourhood of Delhi, scores of Kashmiri Hindus gathered to celebrate perhaps the most important, Shivatri, or the "long night of Shiva". In the centre of the temple, a fire had been built and prayers were said as people placed offerings of rice, barley, walnuts and butter into the flames. Amid the heat and the smoke was Mharaj Kak, the businessman who had pushed his family into a taxi and fled from Kashmir 20 years earlier.   In all that time, he had never returned to Kashmir, to the home his great-grandfather had built which had been taken from him. "What I miss the most," he said, "is that old house and all the memories associated with it".     A valley divided *For hundreds of years the Kashmiri Pandits lived peacefully as a minority in the Kashmir valley alongside the Muslim majority. Often well-educated, they were regarded as the elite of the region - the name "Pandit" means learned person and Jawaharlal Nehru, India's first Prime Minister, was one of them.   *However, in 1989 Muslim extremists intensified their armed struggle against Indian rule in Kashmir and violence broke out against the Hindu Pandits. As a result the vast majority of the Pandit population in the area were forced to flee, with hundreds killed in the conflict. In a space of three months, 400,000 were displaced and many ended up in refugee camps around Jammu.   *Only about 60,000 Kashmiri Pandits stayed behind in the region, and many of them have been the victims of violence. In 1998, 23 were massacred by militants in the village of Wanhama, north of Srinagar, and 24 Pandits were killed in their village in 2006 by gunmen disguised as members of the Indian army.   http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-exiles-dreaming-of-a-return-to-kashmir-1906503.html   From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Feb 22 16:42:14 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:42:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU Message-ID: Dear All, You may have heard or read about the recent incident where Dr. Shrinivias Ramchandra Siras, a member of the faculty of Modern Indian Languages at the Aligarh Muslim University (AMU) was suspended by the AMU on the grounds of his homosexuality. Those who are unaware of this development, please see http://ibnlive.in.com/news/amu-faces-flak-for-suspending-gay- professor/110423-3.html http://www.hindustantimes.com/uttarpradesh/Support-for-AMU-teacher- Gay-body-to-fight-his-case/511039/H1-Article1-510375.aspx By taking this retrograde and totally illegal step, the AMU authorities, who preside over one of the most prestigious universities in India, have brought shame on themselves and their university. Homosexuality is not an offence, and what happens, consensually, in the privacy of a person's home is not something that any university authorities have any right to act on. By taking this action, the AMU authorities have displayed how little regard they have for the privacy and dignity of their faculty. The vice chancellor of the AMU should in fact be taken to task for acting totally outside his brief by defending Prof. Siras' suspension. Unfortunately, it is not only the AMU authorities that are culpable for the indignity that Prof. Siras (and his companion that day) have had to suffer. a local TV channel's 'scoop' which precipitated the whole episode and The Times of India's Manjari Mishra's initial reporting of the incident, was deeply homophobic, and disrespectful. Manjari Mishra's report has the following completely egregious and offensive sentence - "Amid swirling tales of his ``sordid'' sexual preferences, Siras was quietly packing his bags." On what grounds does the reporter consider Prof. Siras' sexual preferences to be 'sordid' and on what grounds does her newspaper actually print this? If there is anything sordid about the episode it is the matter in which it has been reported and represented on the pages of the TOI. The newspaper (whose 'Aman ki Asha' initiative I have found commendable) needs to introspect as to how it let yellow journalism of the worst kind stain its pages. To read Manjari Mishra's report see - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aligarh-Muslim-University- professor-suspended-for-being-gay/articleshow/5585787.cms I am attaching below a letter signed by several eminent academics from several Indian universities condemning the action. (Apologies for cross posting from Kafila.org) best, Shuddha ----------- STATEMENT BY TEACHERS AND ACADEMICS CONDEMNING THE AMU's STANCE We, as teachers and academics from universities across India, read with outrage and dismay that Dr Shrinivas Ramchandra Siras, reader and chairman of Modern Indian Languages at the Aligarh Muslim University (AMU) was suspended for having consensual sex with someone of the same sex within the privacy of his home. What made the press report that came out on Thursday in certain sections of the media particularly shocking was that there were either cameras placed by students within Dr Siras’ house or television reporters got into the house and made a video film of the alleged incident that was then passed on to the university authorities. The university authorities instead of going by the constitutionally recognised right to privacy within the four corners of one’s house have instead chosen to act against Dr Siras. The outrage of the university authorities is deeply misdirected. Instead of suspending Dr Siras, they should have taken stern and serious action against those who so blatantly took on the role of playing moral police with no regard whatsoever for Dr Siras’ constitutionally recognised right to privacy and dignity within his home and the university. What is the ‘gross misconduct’ for which Dr Siras has been suspended? It is not a crime for an adult to have consenting intimate sexual relations with another adult. It is not an offence for an adult to have consensual sex with another adult in the privacy of his home. Dr Siras, in line with the judgement of the Delhi High Court in Naz Foundation, has also committed no legal offence. On the other hand, he is the victim of multiple offences — his house has been entered into without his consent and his intimate life has been filmed without his consent. The press reports repeatedly allege that Dr Siras was having consensual sex with a “rickshaw puller”. Is the occupation or implied class status of the individual involved the reason behind the accusation of ‘scandal’ and ‘outrageous’ behaviour? If so, then the AMU administration is violating the tenets both of India’s Constitution and of the ethics and values of an institution of higher learning with a history as long and distinguished as AMU which was built precisely to end discrimination on religion, caste or class. One has to remember that it was only last year that Chief Justice Shah and Justice Muralidhar, in holding Section 377 inapplicable to consenting sex between adults in private, came up with the important distinction between public morality and constitutional morality. As they noted, “Moral indignation, howsoever strong, is not a valid basis for overriding individual’s fundamental rights of dignity and privacy. In our scheme of things, constitutional morality must outweigh the argument of public morality, even if it be the majoritarian view.” If the Naz judgement with its stress on constitutional morality is taken seriously, the immoral actions will be not be Dr Siras’ conduct but rather the actions of the university authorities in suspending him for the expression of his constitutional right, the actions of the media to blatantly invade his life as well as the possible involvement of students of the university. This incident follows a series of events that mark the shrinking of spaces of freedom and dignity within India’s institutions of higher learning. It is imperative that we protect institutions that should be bastions of building inclusive and democratic cultures for generations to come from narrow-minded moral policing of this kind. Saleem Kidwai, Nivedita Menon, Mary John, V. Geetha, Shilpa Phadke and 13 other teachers and academics from universities across India. Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Feb 22 19:05:32 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:05:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Nice story References: <70c502d21002220157k4dc85d77qb2dfd132a1915001@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It is really a funny loop :) Begin forwarded message: > It is the month of June, on the shores of the Black Sea. > > It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. It is > tough times, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit. > > Suddenly, a rich tourist comes to town. > > He enters the only hotel, lays a 100 Euro note on the reception > counter, and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one. > > The hotel proprietor takes the 100 Euro note and runs to pay his > debt to the butcher. > > The Butcher takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to the > pig grower. > > The pig grower takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to > the supplier of his feed and fuel. > > The supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 Euro note and runs to > pay his debt to the town prostitute that in these hard times, gave > her services on credit. > > The prostitute runs to the hotel, and pays off her debt with the 100 > Euro note to the hotel proprietor to pay for the rooms that she > rented when she brought her clients there. > > The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 Euro note back on the counter > so that the rich tourist will not suspect anything. > > At that moment, the rich tourist comes down after inspecting the > rooms, and takes his 100 Euro note, after saying that he did not > like any of the rooms, and leaves town. > > No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now without debt, > and looks to the future with a lot of optimism. > > This is how the United States Government is doing business today. From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Feb 22 19:18:34 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:18:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Incredible piece of journalist writing Message-ID: dear All, Enclosed is a report that i read yesterday in Hindu. It is from Hindu's Raipur correspondent. This is an incredible reportage. The best i have seen in long run. The terror that fills a landscape and the heart is written with such amazing clarity, calmness and precision. The whispering travel of the bone is an image that will stay and torment in any discussion on this landscape. The text has an Taussig like edge that moves between bones, bodies, lifes, accounts, terror and spectral presences. Superb work. warmly jeebesh http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article110448.ece Police killed villagers, say Gompad witnesses AMAN SETHI A charred wooden stake and three graves are all that remain of the Madavi family in this remote village in Chhattisgarh’s Dantewada district. “Madavi Kanni was lying face down in front of the burnt house,” said an eyewitness. “She had been slashed with a sword and shot in the chest.” The bodies of her father, Madavi Bajar, her mother Madavi Subbhi and her 12-year-old sister Madavi Mutti, were found under a tree, 50 metres away. Testimonies collected by The Hindu from Gompad allege that a composite force of Adivasi special police officers and security force regulars appeared on the outskirts of the village in the early hours of October 1, 2009. “We ran away when we saw the force,” said the witness, speaking on condition of anonymity. “We found the bodies when we returned.” “The police killed my brother, Soyam Subaiah, and fatally stabbed his wife, Soyam Jogi,” said Soyam Bhadra, pointing to the courtyard where the bodies were found, “They also killed Madavi Venka and burnt two houses.” The Hindu interviewed Madavi Laccha, son of Madavi Venka, in January this year. Lachcha claims he saw uniformed men shoot his father in their cowshed, as he ran into the forests. In all, nine Adivasi villagers, including two visitors from Bandarpet, were killed at Gompad that morning. The villagers’ testimonies corroborate statements filed by 12 villagers and Himanshu Kumar in a writ petition filed in the Supreme Court. The petition accuses the security forces of killing two villagers from the neighbouring villages of Velpocha and Nalkathong, along with the nine at Gompad, on October 1, 2009, and holds them responsible for the deaths of six villagers at Gachanpalli on September 17, 2009. In an interview on February 3, Director-General of Police of Chhattisgarh Viswaranjan denied all accusations and emphasised the willingness of the Chhattisgarh police to investigate the case. Police sources in Raipur told The Hindu that security forces had entered the forests surrounding Gompad on September 30 2009 , a day preceding the massacre. The source could not confirm when the forces returned to their barracks. The source’s information is lent credence by an IANS report that quotes Dantewada SP Amresh Mishra as saying two Maoists were killed on October 1, 2009, Nalkathong, — an area not far from Gompad. Scattered details of the Gompad massacre have circulated across the thickly forested region of the Konta block in Dantewada district. Details of the post mortem, conducted by the police on January 23, have flashed from village to village — particularly the extraction of bone samples from the corpses. “Why are the police removing the bones?” asked a villager from Maitha. The samples were extracted to establish the identities of the victims. Adivasis from the villages of Gompad, Velpocha, Nalkathong and Maitha admit that the area is a stomping ground for naxals and the security forces alike. Unverifiable information from local journalists claims that naxals were present in the vicinity of Gompad the night before the massacre, but left before the forces arrived. A naxal flyer signed by the South Bastar Regional Committee, picked up by this correspondent in Bijapur district in February, refers to the Gompad killings and demands that the CRPF and the Koya Commandos be brought before a people’s court. As reported in The Hindu, the police have assumed total control of the movements of at least three of the 12 petitioners of writ filed in the Supreme Court: Sodi Sambho, who was shot in the leg at Gompad, was picked up by the police on January 3 this year. The other petitioners, Soyam Dulla and Soyam Rama, were picked up from a public hearing organised by an NGO in Dantewada on January 6 and have not been seen at the village since. Madavi Kanni’s husband, Kattam Dulle, and her infant son, Kattam Suresh, were also present at the hearing, as was Sodi Sambho’s husband — Sodi Bhadra. They have not returned to Gompad as of date. “My father, Soyam Dulla, is a petitioner in that case,” confirmed Soyam Bhadra. “We have not seen him since he was picked up the police on January 6 in Dantewada.” On February 15, the Chhattisgarh police produced the three petitioners in court in New Delhi. Solicitor-General Gopal Subramanium de facto admitted that the petitioners had been under police control, when he stated that the petitioners faced threats as they were perceived as police informers, and the police had made efforts to protect them. Villagers in Gompad disputed police claims that Soyam Rama, Soyam Dulla and Sodi Sambo were perceived as police informants. “No one has issued any threat,” said a villager, speaking on the condition of anonymity. Surgical glove wrappers litter the graveyard on the outskirts of Gompad, evidence of the post mortem conducted last month. Scraps of discarded clothing hang on a tree overlooking the graves of the Madavi family. “When the doctors exhumed the bodies, they removed the clothes and left them on the tree,” a villager said. The clothes, which could contain evidence of bullet holes or DNA samples, have been exposed to the elements for over a month. The Madavi family has proved inseparable even in death. Their graves lie side by side: Subbi and her husband Bajar were buried in the same grave, as were Kanni and her sister Mutti. In an adjacent grave lies Madavi Venka. Keywords: Chhattisgarh, Dantewada, Supreme Court, Gompad killings, Koya Commandos From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 19:28:54 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:28:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ABC of Media In-Reply-To: <341380d01002220550w2e2dea65hcf5cf4cc679387d@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d01002220550w2e2dea65hcf5cf4cc679387d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002220558k4961e3d2j15ffe71b0060b4b3@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, One of best observations about media in times of recession and freedom of expression. This is by P. Sainath on 'Advertising, Bollywood, Corporate power': http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article108458.ece?homepage=true Excerpts: "Many corporate-owned media houses have sacked hundreds of journalists and non-journalist staff since late 2008. Hundreds of other journalists have suffered wage cuts. Of course, the ‘right to know' of readers and viewers does not extend to this information. Why scare the poor lambs? And how can you tell them the truth about that while everyday crowing about the once-again booming economy? It might lead audiences to ask that dull, boring question: “If things are so good, why are you axing so many people?” Answering that means revealing the interests the corporate media have in the fate of the stock market. It means talking about their need to keep the shares of the companies they are linked to (or have heavily invested in) afloat and buoyant. That is regardless of how rotten they are within. No matter how their own shares in those companies were obtained. And no agonising over how unethical the means used to keep them heated. This was in part behind the fatwa issued by some newspapers to their staff banning the ‘R' word last year. Recession is what happens in the United States. In India, it was a slowdown — and it's already turning around brilliantly. The hundreds of sacked and ruined staff have little freedom to speak of. Even the professional communicators within them cannot tell their own audiences their story. Cannot tell them they were laid off, let alone tell them why." Thanks Anupam From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 21:53:14 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:14 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU References: Message-ID: <4CC394A484C54C228FF10F0CD64459C1@tara> By indicating that there are only 5 plus 13 other teachers to sign this pettition, aren't the sponsors of this pettition suggesting that there is not much support for Prof. Siras? Won't it be more effective to leave out the "13 other" part? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "reader-list list" Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:12 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU > Dear All, > > You may have heard or read about the recent incident where Dr. > Shrinivias Ramchandra Siras, a member of the faculty of Modern Indian > Languages at the Aligarh Muslim University (AMU) was suspended by the > AMU on the grounds of his homosexuality. Those who are unaware of > this development, please see > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/amu-faces-flak-for-suspending-gay- > professor/110423-3.html > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/uttarpradesh/Support-for-AMU-teacher- > Gay-body-to-fight-his-case/511039/H1-Article1-510375.aspx > > By taking this retrograde and totally illegal step, the AMU > authorities, who preside over one of the most prestigious > universities in India, have brought shame on themselves and their > university. Homosexuality is not an offence, and what happens, > consensually, in the privacy of a person's home is not something that > any university authorities have any right to act on. By taking this > action, the AMU authorities have displayed how little regard they > have for the privacy and dignity of their faculty. The vice > chancellor of the AMU should in fact be taken to task for acting > totally outside his brief by defending Prof. Siras' suspension. > > Unfortunately, it is not only the AMU authorities that are culpable > for the indignity that Prof. Siras (and his companion that day) have > had to suffer. a local TV channel's 'scoop' which precipitated the > whole episode and The Times of India's Manjari Mishra's initial > reporting of the incident, was deeply homophobic, and disrespectful. > > Manjari Mishra's report has the following completely egregious and > offensive sentence - "Amid swirling tales of his ``sordid'' sexual > preferences, Siras was quietly packing his bags." On what grounds > does the reporter consider Prof. Siras' sexual preferences to be > 'sordid' and on what grounds does her newspaper actually print this? > If there is anything sordid about the episode it is the matter in > which it has been reported and represented on the pages of the TOI. > The newspaper (whose 'Aman ki Asha' initiative I have found > commendable) needs to introspect as to how it let yellow journalism > of the worst kind stain its pages. > > To read Manjari Mishra's report see - > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aligarh-Muslim-University- > professor-suspended-for-being-gay/articleshow/5585787.cms > > I am attaching below a letter signed by several eminent academics > from several Indian universities condemning the action. (Apologies > for cross posting from Kafila.org) > > best, > > Shuddha > > ----------- > > STATEMENT BY TEACHERS AND ACADEMICS CONDEMNING THE AMU's STANCE > > We, as teachers and academics from universities across India, read > with outrage and dismay that Dr Shrinivas Ramchandra Siras, reader > and chairman of Modern Indian Languages at the Aligarh Muslim > University (AMU) was suspended for having consensual sex with someone > of the same sex within the privacy of his home. > > What made the press report that came out on Thursday in certain > sections of the media particularly shocking was that there were > either cameras placed by students within Dr Siras’ house or > television reporters got into the house and made a video film of the > alleged incident that was then passed on to the university > authorities. The university authorities instead of going by the > constitutionally recognised right to privacy within the four corners > of one’s house have instead chosen to act against Dr Siras. > > The outrage of the university authorities is deeply misdirected. > Instead of suspending Dr Siras, they should have taken stern and > serious action against those who so blatantly took on the role of > playing moral police with no regard whatsoever for Dr Siras’ > constitutionally recognised right to privacy and dignity within his > home and the university. > > What is the ‘gross misconduct’ for which Dr Siras has been suspended? > It is not a crime for an adult to have consenting intimate sexual > relations with another adult. It is not an offence for an adult to > have consensual sex with another adult in the privacy of his home. Dr > Siras, in line with the judgement of the Delhi High Court in Naz > Foundation, has also committed no legal offence. On the other hand, > he is the victim of multiple offences — his house has been entered > into without his consent and his intimate life has been filmed > without his consent. > > The press reports repeatedly allege that Dr Siras was having > consensual sex with a “rickshaw puller”. Is the occupation or implied > class status of the individual involved the reason behind the > accusation of ‘scandal’ and ‘outrageous’ behaviour? If so, then the > AMU administration is violating the tenets both of India’s > Constitution and of the ethics and values of an institution of higher > learning with a history as long and distinguished as AMU which was > built precisely to end discrimination on religion, caste or class. > > One has to remember that it was only last year that Chief Justice > Shah and Justice Muralidhar, in holding Section 377 inapplicable to > consenting sex between adults in private, came up with the important > distinction between public morality and constitutional morality. As > they noted, “Moral indignation, howsoever strong, is not a valid > basis for overriding individual’s fundamental rights of dignity and > privacy. In our scheme of things, constitutional morality must > outweigh the argument of public morality, even if it be the > majoritarian view.” > > If the Naz judgement with its stress on constitutional morality is > taken seriously, the immoral actions will be not be Dr Siras’ conduct > but rather the actions of the university authorities in suspending > him for the expression of his constitutional right, the actions of > the media to blatantly invade his life as well as the possible > involvement of students of the university. > > This incident follows a series of events that mark the shrinking of > spaces of freedom and dignity within India’s institutions of higher > learning. It is imperative that we protect institutions that should > be bastions of building inclusive and democratic cultures for > generations to come from narrow-minded moral policing of this kind. > > Saleem Kidwai, Nivedita Menon, Mary John, V. Geetha, Shilpa Phadke > and 13 other teachers and academics from universities across India. > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 21:55:10 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:55:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? Message-ID: <6353c691002220825v68ce9ad1u632a4ecf9b7c4ea4@mail.gmail.com> *3 civil rights activists in Kobad chargesheet* *Staff Reporter | New Delhi* *PTI and Pioneer* *Link - http://www.dailypioneer.com/237681/3-civil-rights-activists-in-Kobad-chargesheet.html * Three civil rights activists were named as Naxal sympathisers in a chargesheet filed by the police against top Maoist leader Kobad Ghandy, prompting a sharp reaction from the organisations they belong to. The names of former PUDR secretary Gautam Naulakha, Committee for the Release of Political Prisoners spokesperson Rona Wilson, and Revolutionary Democratic Front (RDF) deputy secretary GN Saibaba are also named in the chargesheet for meeting Ghandy ahead and after his arrest in Delhi. Police had on Friday filed a chargesheet running into over 800 pages against Ghandy, a Politburo member of the banned CPI (Maoist) arrested in September last year from Delhi, in which the names of civil rights activists and some organisations appeared. People's Union of Democratic Rights (PUDR), People's Union of Civil Liberties (PUCL) and Association for Protection of Democratic Rights (APDR) are the organisations which were mentioned in the chargesheet accusing them of helping Maoists. The chargesheet said that Maoists are active among students and have established front organisations other than forming a trade union which is active in Okhla Industrial Area. Naulakha, Wilson and Saibaba termed their being named in the chargesheet as "laughable, utter rubbish, ridiculous" and an attempt to "muzzle dissident voices in a democracy". Saibaba is accused of having a role in passing of a resolution of CPI (Maoist) on its tactical counter strategy and sheltering top Naxal leaders in the national Capital. He claimed that the chargesheet was completely fabricated. "This is height of imagination. This is to implicate me. I move on a wheelchair. How can I participate in a military action from Delhi and that too, sitting on a wheelchair?" he said claiming that he has never met Ghandy. The chargesheet has also said Naulakha met Ghandy ahead of his arrest in Delhi, an allegation denied by the civil rights activist. "I have met Ghandy in jail after his arrest. But it is rubbish to say that I have met him before. As a civil rights activists, I would have liked to meet Ghandy before he was arrested," Dhaulaka has said to PTI. He said the naming of organisations and civil rights activists in the chargesheet was "ridiculous" and an attempt to silence voices against Government. Wilson said it was a "standard strategy" to "brow-beat" all kinds of voices which disagree with the Government, which wants to "profile people and organisations" taking up the cause of rights violation as anti-national. "I have met Ghandy in the jail. It is on record. Such kinds of things are meant to stigmatise people's protest," he said. A senior police official said the names were included in the chargesheet after investigations. In the chargesheet, police claimed that Ghandy had close links with Maoists in Nepal. The investigators also claimed Ghandy had confessed before Andhra Pradesh police of being involved in at least two Naxal attacks in Jharkhand in December 2006 and April 2007. From gautam.bhan at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 22:12:53 2010 From: gautam.bhan at gmail.com (Gautam Bhan) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:12:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU In-Reply-To: <4CC394A484C54C228FF10F0CD64459C1@tara> References: <4CC394A484C54C228FF10F0CD64459C1@tara> Message-ID: Just to clarify, Shuddha posted the letter as was carried in the HT last week. That letter was made in about three hours to meet the press deadline and have an immediate response, and in that time, we had five plus thirteen signatures that went to press. Since then, in the past few days, the number of signatures has increased to over 80 and its rising. There is a lot of support. The updated letter with the new signatures will be put online soon. best, Gautam On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Tara Prakash wrote: > By indicating that there are only 5 plus 13 other teachers to sign this > pettition, aren't the sponsors of this pettition suggesting that there is > not much support for Prof. Siras? Won't it be more effective to leave out > the "13 other" part? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > To: "reader-list list" > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:12 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU > > > > Dear All, > > > > You may have heard or read about the recent incident where Dr. > > Shrinivias Ramchandra Siras, a member of the faculty of Modern Indian > > Languages at the Aligarh Muslim University (AMU) was suspended by the > > AMU on the grounds of his homosexuality. Those who are unaware of > > this development, please see > > > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/amu-faces-flak-for-suspending-gay- > > professor/110423-3.html > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/uttarpradesh/Support-for-AMU-teacher- > > Gay-body-to-fight-his-case/511039/H1-Article1-510375.aspx > > > > By taking this retrograde and totally illegal step, the AMU > > authorities, who preside over one of the most prestigious > > universities in India, have brought shame on themselves and their > > university. Homosexuality is not an offence, and what happens, > > consensually, in the privacy of a person's home is not something that > > any university authorities have any right to act on. By taking this > > action, the AMU authorities have displayed how little regard they > > have for the privacy and dignity of their faculty. The vice > > chancellor of the AMU should in fact be taken to task for acting > > totally outside his brief by defending Prof. Siras' suspension. > > > > Unfortunately, it is not only the AMU authorities that are culpable > > for the indignity that Prof. Siras (and his companion that day) have > > had to suffer. a local TV channel's 'scoop' which precipitated the > > whole episode and The Times of India's Manjari Mishra's initial > > reporting of the incident, was deeply homophobic, and disrespectful. > > > > Manjari Mishra's report has the following completely egregious and > > offensive sentence - "Amid swirling tales of his ``sordid'' sexual > > preferences, Siras was quietly packing his bags." On what grounds > > does the reporter consider Prof. Siras' sexual preferences to be > > 'sordid' and on what grounds does her newspaper actually print this? > > If there is anything sordid about the episode it is the matter in > > which it has been reported and represented on the pages of the TOI. > > The newspaper (whose 'Aman ki Asha' initiative I have found > > commendable) needs to introspect as to how it let yellow journalism > > of the worst kind stain its pages. > > > > To read Manjari Mishra's report see - > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aligarh-Muslim-University- > > professor-suspended-for-being-gay/articleshow/5585787.cms > > > > I am attaching below a letter signed by several eminent academics > > from several Indian universities condemning the action. (Apologies > > for cross posting from Kafila.org) > > > > best, > > > > Shuddha > > > > ----------- > > > > STATEMENT BY TEACHERS AND ACADEMICS CONDEMNING THE AMU's STANCE > > > > We, as teachers and academics from universities across India, read > > with outrage and dismay that Dr Shrinivas Ramchandra Siras, reader > > and chairman of Modern Indian Languages at the Aligarh Muslim > > University (AMU) was suspended for having consensual sex with someone > > of the same sex within the privacy of his home. > > > > What made the press report that came out on Thursday in certain > > sections of the media particularly shocking was that there were > > either cameras placed by students within Dr Siras’ house or > > television reporters got into the house and made a video film of the > > alleged incident that was then passed on to the university > > authorities. The university authorities instead of going by the > > constitutionally recognised right to privacy within the four corners > > of one’s house have instead chosen to act against Dr Siras. > > > > The outrage of the university authorities is deeply misdirected. > > Instead of suspending Dr Siras, they should have taken stern and > > serious action against those who so blatantly took on the role of > > playing moral police with no regard whatsoever for Dr Siras’ > > constitutionally recognised right to privacy and dignity within his > > home and the university. > > > > What is the ‘gross misconduct’ for which Dr Siras has been suspended? > > It is not a crime for an adult to have consenting intimate sexual > > relations with another adult. It is not an offence for an adult to > > have consensual sex with another adult in the privacy of his home. Dr > > Siras, in line with the judgement of the Delhi High Court in Naz > > Foundation, has also committed no legal offence. On the other hand, > > he is the victim of multiple offences — his house has been entered > > into without his consent and his intimate life has been filmed > > without his consent. > > > > The press reports repeatedly allege that Dr Siras was having > > consensual sex with a “rickshaw puller”. Is the occupation or implied > > class status of the individual involved the reason behind the > > accusation of ‘scandal’ and ‘outrageous’ behaviour? If so, then the > > AMU administration is violating the tenets both of India’s > > Constitution and of the ethics and values of an institution of higher > > learning with a history as long and distinguished as AMU which was > > built precisely to end discrimination on religion, caste or class. > > > > One has to remember that it was only last year that Chief Justice > > Shah and Justice Muralidhar, in holding Section 377 inapplicable to > > consenting sex between adults in private, came up with the important > > distinction between public morality and constitutional morality. As > > they noted, “Moral indignation, howsoever strong, is not a valid > > basis for overriding individual’s fundamental rights of dignity and > > privacy. In our scheme of things, constitutional morality must > > outweigh the argument of public morality, even if it be the > > majoritarian view.” > > > > If the Naz judgement with its stress on constitutional morality is > > taken seriously, the immoral actions will be not be Dr Siras’ conduct > > but rather the actions of the university authorities in suspending > > him for the expression of his constitutional right, the actions of > > the media to blatantly invade his life as well as the possible > > involvement of students of the university. > > > > This incident follows a series of events that mark the shrinking of > > spaces of freedom and dignity within India’s institutions of higher > > learning. It is imperative that we protect institutions that should > > be bastions of building inclusive and democratic cultures for > > generations to come from narrow-minded moral policing of this kind. > > > > Saleem Kidwai, Nivedita Menon, Mary John, V. Geetha, Shilpa Phadke > > and 13 other teachers and academics from universities across India. > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- ___________ I write at: www.kafila.org. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 22:49:20 2010 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Tara Prakash) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:19:20 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU References: <4CC394A484C54C228FF10F0CD64459C1@tara> Message-ID: Thank you Gautam for the clarification. If possible have the pettition placed online for others to sign. Every Indian has a say in this affair. What the university administration did was illegal. It's them not prof. Sirisa, that should be sacked. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gautam Bhan To: Tara Prakash Cc: reader-list list ; Shuddhabrata Sengupta Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU Just to clarify, Shuddha posted the letter as was carried in the HT last week. That letter was made in about three hours to meet the press deadline and have an immediate response, and in that time, we had five plus thirteen signatures that went to press. Since then, in the past few days, the number of signatures has increased to over 80 and its rising. There is a lot of support. The updated letter with the new signatures will be put online soon. best, Gautam On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Tara Prakash wrote: By indicating that there are only 5 plus 13 other teachers to sign this pettition, aren't the sponsors of this pettition suggesting that there is not much support for Prof. Siras? Won't it be more effective to leave out the "13 other" part? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "reader-list list" Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:12 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Homophobia in AMU > Dear All, > > You may have heard or read about the recent incident where Dr. > Shrinivias Ramchandra Siras, a member of the faculty of Modern Indian > Languages at the Aligarh Muslim University (AMU) was suspended by the > AMU on the grounds of his homosexuality. Those who are unaware of > this development, please see > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/amu-faces-flak-for-suspending-gay- > professor/110423-3.html > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/uttarpradesh/Support-for-AMU-teacher- > Gay-body-to-fight-his-case/511039/H1-Article1-510375.aspx > > By taking this retrograde and totally illegal step, the AMU > authorities, who preside over one of the most prestigious > universities in India, have brought shame on themselves and their > university. Homosexuality is not an offence, and what happens, > consensually, in the privacy of a person's home is not something that > any university authorities have any right to act on. By taking this > action, the AMU authorities have displayed how little regard they > have for the privacy and dignity of their faculty. The vice > chancellor of the AMU should in fact be taken to task for acting > totally outside his brief by defending Prof. Siras' suspension. > > Unfortunately, it is not only the AMU authorities that are culpable > for the indignity that Prof. Siras (and his companion that day) have > had to suffer. a local TV channel's 'scoop' which precipitated the > whole episode and The Times of India's Manjari Mishra's initial > reporting of the incident, was deeply homophobic, and disrespectful. > > Manjari Mishra's report has the following completely egregious and > offensive sentence - "Amid swirling tales of his ``sordid'' sexual > preferences, Siras was quietly packing his bags." On what grounds > does the reporter consider Prof. Siras' sexual preferences to be > 'sordid' and on what grounds does her newspaper actually print this? > If there is anything sordid about the episode it is the matter in > which it has been reported and represented on the pages of the TOI. > The newspaper (whose 'Aman ki Asha' initiative I have found > commendable) needs to introspect as to how it let yellow journalism > of the worst kind stain its pages. > > To read Manjari Mishra's report see - > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aligarh-Muslim-University- > professor-suspended-for-being-gay/articleshow/5585787.cms > > I am attaching below a letter signed by several eminent academics > from several Indian universities condemning the action. (Apologies > for cross posting from Kafila.org) > > best, > > Shuddha > > ----------- > > STATEMENT BY TEACHERS AND ACADEMICS CONDEMNING THE AMU's STANCE > > We, as teachers and academics from universities across India, read > with outrage and dismay that Dr Shrinivas Ramchandra Siras, reader > and chairman of Modern Indian Languages at the Aligarh Muslim > University (AMU) was suspended for having consensual sex with someone > of the same sex within the privacy of his home. > > What made the press report that came out on Thursday in certain > sections of the media particularly shocking was that there were > either cameras placed by students within Dr Siras’ house or > television reporters got into the house and made a video film of the > alleged incident that was then passed on to the university > authorities. The university authorities instead of going by the > constitutionally recognised right to privacy within the four corners > of one’s house have instead chosen to act against Dr Siras. > > The outrage of the university authorities is deeply misdirected. > Instead of suspending Dr Siras, they should have taken stern and > serious action against those who so blatantly took on the role of > playing moral police with no regard whatsoever for Dr Siras’ > constitutionally recognised right to privacy and dignity within his > home and the university. > > What is the ‘gross misconduct’ for which Dr Siras has been suspended? > It is not a crime for an adult to have consenting intimate sexual > relations with another adult. It is not an offence for an adult to > have consensual sex with another adult in the privacy of his home. Dr > Siras, in line with the judgement of the Delhi High Court in Naz > Foundation, has also committed no legal offence. On the other hand, > he is the victim of multiple offences — his house has been entered > into without his consent and his intimate life has been filmed > without his consent. > > The press reports repeatedly allege that Dr Siras was having > consensual sex with a “rickshaw puller”. Is the occupation or implied > class status of the individual involved the reason behind the > accusation of ‘scandal’ and ‘outrageous’ behaviour? If so, then the > AMU administration is violating the tenets both of India’s > Constitution and of the ethics and values of an institution of higher > learning with a history as long and distinguished as AMU which was > built precisely to end discrimination on religion, caste or class. > > One has to remember that it was only last year that Chief Justice > Shah and Justice Muralidhar, in holding Section 377 inapplicable to > consenting sex between adults in private, came up with the important > distinction between public morality and constitutional morality. As > they noted, “Moral indignation, howsoever strong, is not a valid > basis for overriding individual’s fundamental rights of dignity and > privacy. In our scheme of things, constitutional morality must > outweigh the argument of public morality, even if it be the > majoritarian view.” > > If the Naz judgement with its stress on constitutional morality is > taken seriously, the immoral actions will be not be Dr Siras’ conduct > but rather the actions of the university authorities in suspending > him for the expression of his constitutional right, the actions of > the media to blatantly invade his life as well as the possible > involvement of students of the university. > > This incident follows a series of events that mark the shrinking of > spaces of freedom and dignity within India’s institutions of higher > learning. It is imperative that we protect institutions that should > be bastions of building inclusive and democratic cultures for > generations to come from narrow-minded moral policing of this kind. > > Saleem Kidwai, Nivedita Menon, Mary John, V. Geetha, Shilpa Phadke > and 13 other teachers and academics from universities across India. > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- ___________ I write at: www.kafila.org. From santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 08:06:43 2010 From: santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com (santhosh hk) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:06:43 +0430 Subject: [Reader-list] Free online education portal Message-ID: The online education portal is yet another milestone in the history of Sree Neelakanta Government Sanskrit College. Arguably, the first college in Kerala to tap the unlimited potential of the cyber space, we provide exhaustive online support to competitive exams like NET, CAT and MAT. In addition, the portal offers materials on communicative English, general knowledge, information & communication technology and helps the student fare better in the university examinations. We would like to invite everyone interested in the venture, both as users and contributors. www.sngsconlineedu.org is the realization of a long-cherished dream. The college has tried to use the possibilities brought about by the internet revolution for quiet some time now as illustrated from the college website and blogs. Now it has moved to its own portal and is thus equipped to cater to the diverse needs of the larger academic community. Every course offered by the college is absolutely free, no strings attached. The following are the main courses and facilities that the college offers through the portal. UGC/NET: The Multimedia Center and the Placement Cell of the College have offered training for UGC NET for long, at first in the form of regular classes and recently through a blog created for the purpose. In the case of Sanskrit, Malayalam, economics, commerce, history and English, training was offered for optional subjects too. Now, we are bidding goodbye to the blog and starting out with our own cyber space. It uploads at least five posts a day from among general and optional topics. In addition, there will be interactive sessions, tests and evaluation programs. We are very seriously thinking about offering real time online interactive sessions with teachers and resource persons. Common admission test: The Placement Cell is conducting training sessions for CAT and MAT. Though it is primarily meant for final year degree students, freshmen and sophomores are also actively attending classes. The study materials and notes shall be made available in the portal. Communicative English: The Multimedia Center is association with the department of English is running a short term course on communicative English. All the four departments of language viz. listening, speaking, reading and writing are pointedly dealt with in the course. ICT: Information and communication technology has already a niche in every stratum of the academy. When it comes to higher education, it has become a byword of efficient learning and output. The College provides service and assistance in every facet of ICT. Admin http://sngsconlineedu.org http://sngscollege.info http://vijnanacintamani.org From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Feb 23 00:19:12 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:19:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents Message-ID: <8277AA5A-E267-4EA5-9B1C-F446AE159CFE@sarai.net> Dear All, Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 day old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of protestors and the infant's parents, who were being apparently prevailed upon to join their protest - are shocking. The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is barbaric and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. And the mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants death in Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has a great deal of introspection to do about how it handles the day to day aspects of running a protest movement. I think that the 'stone pelting' protests become in several instances, episodes for lumpen young men to let off their macho steam. The second Palestinian intifada degenerated into something that the Israeli Armed Forces could completely crush because the twin tactics of 'stone pelting' and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion across the world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it increasingly intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest became a young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious and non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the same might occur in Kashmir. I remain convinced that the end of the military occupation of the Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware that the pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I do not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. I find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as instances where children have either died or been severely injured by police, paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the Kashmir valley. The absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of stones. sadly, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 09:58:41 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:58:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: <8277AA5A-E267-4EA5-9B1C-F446AE159CFE@sarai.net> Message-ID: MAIL TODAY ePaper Copyright © 2008 MAIL TODAY. Feb 20, 2010 'It is stifling to be young in Kashmir' by Sonia Jabbar ( As told to Neha Tara Mehta) THERES a major difference between 1990 and 2010. In 1990, Kashmiris really believed azadi was around the corner. Two historic events ‹ the withdrawal of the Soviet army from Afghanistan and the fall of the Berlin Wall ‹ convinced people that great powers were not invincible and the demonstrations in Kashmir, though full of anger, had a great degree of optimism. Today, the demonstrations flow from a deep well of nihilism and the reason for this is also located in recent history. >From 2000 onwards, when the Vajpayee government initiated a series of movements towards reconciliation with Pakistan on Kashmir ‹ the ceasefire in 2000 and the Lahore Pact ‹ it created a very positive atmosphere. Everyone, from General Pervez Musharraf on the Pakistani side to the mainstream political parties in Jammu and Kashmir, and the Kashmiri separatists, were outdoing each other to come up with creative solutions. There were talks, both public and secret, Track II meetings and round- table conferences at the highest levels. The 2002 elections were very successful and all this generated a great degree of public confidence and optimism. Both India and Pakistan failed to take advantage of the tremendous goodwill that they had generated. Nothing happened. By 2007, peoples hope started dwindling. There was no alternative but a life of constant tension between the guns of the army and those of the militants. Most young people in Kashmir view the Indian military presence from two perspectives: one, as an army of occupation, and two, as an irritant you have to negotiate with every day when you come across road blocks and bunkers. What do you do with a life that's continually disrupted by hartals and curfews? Young people in the rest of the country have no idea of just how stifling it is to be young in Kashmir. There doesnt seem to be a way out, so young people are filled with suspicion and cynicism. The Amarnath issue in 2008 was a non- issue. It was an excuse for the volcano of disappointment and frustration to erupt. The separatists took advantage of the groundswell. At that time I spent some time in downtown Srinagar. Though I found the stone- throwers employed by separatist groups as agent provocateurs, most of the demonstrators were young and gullible boys. These I found to be extremely frustrated youth who took to the streets at the slightest provocation. For some, it was a rite of passage to prove ones masculinity. It was considered an act of bravado to have taken on the police. These are young people who have grown up in the last 20 years, their movements constricted by the military presence and restriction on movements. An overwhelming majority ‹ 71 per cent of the Valleys population ‹ is under 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh ‹ half of them are college graduates. And because they cant settle in life financially, they marry much later. So you have young people who would normally have married in their early 20s, are now marrying in their late 20s or early 30s. This large population of frustrated, nihilistic young people is most susceptible to being drawn into another cycle of militancy. Death has more meaning for them than life. The only way this situation can be salvaged is if they see some forward movement on the Kashmir problem. > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:19:12 +0530 > To: reader-list list > Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > Dear All, Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs > in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 day > old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of protestors and > the infant's parents, who were being apparently prevailed upon to join their > protest - are shocking. The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is > barbaric and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. And the > mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants death in > Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has a great deal of > introspection to do about how it handles the day to day aspects of running a > protest movement. I think that the 'stone pelting' protests become in > several instances, episodes for lumpen young men to let off their macho > steam. The second Palestinian intifada degenerated into something that the > Israeli Armed Forces could completely crush because the twin tactics of > 'stone pelting' and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion > across the world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it > increasingly intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest > became a young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious > and non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the > same might occur in Kashmir. I remain convinced that the end of the military > occupation of the Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware > that the pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I > do not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. I > find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as instances > where children have either died or been severely injured by police, > paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the Kashmir valley. The > absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of > stones. sadly, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at > CSDS Raqs Media > Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net _____ > ____________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Feb 23 10:54:12 2010 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:24:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Evolution of a war Message-ID: <915791.31813.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The below is a book review.The book talks about Pakistan army's role in Kashmir. I would like to hear opinions on this but to me it seems fairly evident that till the Army is calling the shots in Pakistan, there can be no solution to the Kashmir issue. There are three major stakeholders:India, Pakistan and Kashmiris. Till the army is in control there can be no trust between India and Pak and so India will not budge from its status quo position.This suits the Pak army too since once the Kashmir issue is resolved it can no longer play a dominant role in Pakistan. This sounds too simplistic but I would like to hear counter arguments. Please read on for the book review. Thanks Rahul http://www.chowk.com/articles/16415 Shadow War: The Untold Story of Jihad in Kashmir By Arif Jamal Published by Melville House Publishing, 2009 Pages: 352 (hardcover) Price: $26.95 The Untold Story of Jihad in Kashmir is a myth-busting and brutal exposé of Pakistan's secret war against India. It provides crucial information on the key facets of militancy including recruitment, organisational structure, ideological base, and its transnational character. The author Arif Jamal, a journalist scholar from Lahore and New York, has not only made use of his journalist acumen and scholarly skills but more importantly his personal courage and professional integrity. Jamal prefaces the book by validating the sources of his information which, given the clandestine nature of the subject, are as important as the findings of the study. He has been successful in interviewing most of the key players in the jihad networks as well as access organisational and popular literature of jihad. His use of first hand accounts and selective use of secondary sources turns it into a highly original work. The author is especially well placed, to write such a book. Having begun his professional career in Pakistan in 1986 as a journalist with leading national and international media organisations, Arif Jamal has written hundreds of investigative and interpretive articles in English, focusing on Pakistan army and militant Islamic organisations. He holds a Masters in International Relations and has been a fellow at distinguished institutions including Harvard University and the University College of London, UK. He is presently associated with Center for International Cooperation, New York University , USA. The book has broken the scholarly silence on military's involvement with militant Islamic groups and Pakistan's establishment's proxy war with India as it analyses the history of the jihad in Kashmir and the role of the Pakistan Army in shaping it since 1988. Scripting the evolution of the Pakistan's military ambition to use civilian insurgents/jihadis as an instrument of defense and foreign policy against India in Kashmir, the author provides a rather useful index of the names of the 'principal characters' from the warring regions, India, Pakistan and Kashmir, who would play out the script of jihad in Kashmir, a story which can compete with the best known political thrillers of our times. In the first two chapters, the author outlines the formative phase of the Kashmir conflict and the evolution of the policy of using cross border Islamic militancy as an instrument of foreign policy, by focusing on Pakistan's first jihad under direct military command. It led to partition of Kashmir into Pakistani and Indian occupied Kashmirs within a year of independence in 1947. Chapter 3 discusses how CIA money, destined for the Afghan mujahideen in the 80s, was funneled to Kashmiri jihadis under Zia, creating a vital nexus of power and patronage of Islamic militants by the Pakistani military. Jamat-i-Islami (JI), provided ideological strength and human resource, in addition to coordinating jihadi network with various brands of Islamic militants across the world, fuelling a more than twenty-five year insurgency. Pakistani government and ISI support for militant groups who left Afghanistan to fight Indian rule in Kashmir has been the cause of much friction with India. Chapter 4 and 5 demystify the notion of jihad as a selfless struggle for the glory of Islam by exposing the vicious competitions among various militant organisations fighting for share in the spoils of holy war. With the ascent of secular mission of JKLF, the Kashmiri nationalist militants in the 80s, JI fought back to take a lead role in the Kashmir Jihad with the help of ISI in post-Zia period. Chapter 5 builds on the factional struggle within the jihadi network and the hegemony of Hizbul Mujihadeen and its allied organisations on the reign of terror that they unleashed in Indian held Kashmir. They looted shops, bombed cinemas, targeted unveiled Muslim women and kidnapped, tortured and murdered Hindu businessmen and officials. In the process of conflict, Kashmiri society, which largely avoided communal riots at the time of partition, was convulsed into brutal violence, rising fundamentalism and communalism, and the flight of nearly the entire Hindu population from the Valley. Chapter 6 outlines the military adventure of President Musharraf, the infamous Kargil war, as a logical corollary to Pakistan's policy of using jihadis as a strategic tool in the war against India. As Musharraf claimed it in his biography, it was waged to internationalise the Kashmir issue. On the contrary, it ended up isolating Pakistan internationally and for which Pakistan bore an enormous human cost. The financial cost of the war, met through Pakistani taxpayer's money, excluding the compensation rose to $700 million. Jamal analyses how the role of jihadis was overstated by the military and the sacrifices of Northern Light Infantry (NLI) drawn from Gilgit Baltistan/Norther Areas were ignored by the media. Musharraf wore Kargil as a badge of honour despite repeated criticism of professional failures even from his very own military quarters. Claiming a degree of success in highlighting the Kashmir issue through Kargil, Musharraf went on to initiate peace process with India, epitomised by Agra Summit in 2001. Jamal argues in chapter 7 that the failure of Agra Summit to lead to a peaceful resolution of conflicts between India and Pakistan rejoiced Islamic militants. Acquiring another lease of life, they attacked Red Fort and later that year on the Indian parliament, the very symbol of Indian sovereignty. In post 9/11 world, when Arab Islamic militancy under al-Qaeda came under an US-led international scrutiny, ISI tried to protect its jihadi networks in Pakistan and Kashmir by asking them to keep a low profile and camouflaging their organisational nomenclature. They were advised to drop names that smack of al-Qaeda -- Laskar, Jaish, and Sepah -- thereby allowing them to survive despite Musharraf's pronounced commitments to be a close American ally in international war on terror. Extending the discussion of jihadi network further, the last chapter provides a substantiative account of ISI's official involvement in forming All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) in 1993 in a bid to give a political face to jihad. Tracking its career over a decade Jamal, with profound penetration, analyses its impact on aggravating the Kashmir conflict, while counting its failure to live up to its original mandate. A net result of shadow war with Kashmir has meant that Pakistani military has trained nearly half a million insurgents as a matter of defence policy, who now pose a grave threat to the peace and security of Pakistan. The nexus of power and patronage that was built up over Kashmir jihad fuels the militancy on Pakistani soil and abroad. Coupled with threats of increasing "Talibinization" that mar the democratic future of Pakistan, the infrastructure of Jihad factory can not be effectively dismantled without finding solutions to Kashmir conflict. Despite numerous attempts in continuing formal peace talks between India and Pakistan in the last five years, militant attacks continue to hinder progress towards a sustainable solution on Kashmir. Talks are effectively put on hold since 2008 after India accused the ISI and Pakistani authorities of being complicit in the Mumbai Attacks. Through a thick description of jihadi network, Arif Jamal underscores the global implications of a regional conflict. He argues that global jihad is an off-shoot of Kashmir conflict. Without peaceful resolution of Kashmir conflict, the international terror networks cannot be uprooted. In the light of Jamal's book, Barack Obama's singular focus on battling Taliban in Afghanistan and their sympathisers in Pakistan inherited from Bush administration can prove to be disastrous policy oversight for Pakistan as well as the international community From babuubab at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 11:02:50 2010 From: babuubab at gmail.com (SUNDARA BABU) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:32:50 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Report: Peace and Processes of Violence in Jammu and Kashmir In-Reply-To: <66ec95311002222121t22bfbb87q8098e31acab9a4c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <259677.47215.qm@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <66ec95311002222121y44903e94m85216f4e33a80c7f@mail.gmail.com> <66ec95311002222121t22bfbb87q8098e31acab9a4c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <66ec95311002222132v29ddb456m9055f0ab81f5acf9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, A Report titled *“Peace and Processes of Violence” *on situation in J&K, is now available. Please contact the below mentioned person Mr. Khurram Parvez from JKCCS for a copy of it. warm regards, Sundara Babu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khurram Parvez Dear Friends, Please find attached document, “*Peace and Processes of Violence*” a report on situation in Jammu and Kashmir from 2002 to 2009. The report is a preliminary observation on the data about killings, disappearances, suicides, fratricides, probes ordered etc. in Jammu & Kashmir, collected by Jammu Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society from 2002 to 2009. The data presents a deeply disturbing pattern of impunity in Jammu & Kashmir and contains only reported killings. Regards, Khurram Khurram Parvez T: +91-194-2482820 M: +91-9419013553 www.jkccs.org www.kashmirprocess.org From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 23 11:05:28 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:05:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: References: <8277AA5A-E267-4EA5-9B1C-F446AE159CFE@sarai.net> Message-ID: <001501cab44a$025fe8e0$071fbaa0$@in> Dear Jabbar, "An overwhelming majority 71 per cent of the Valleys population is under 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh half of them are college graduates." Problem with article/law 370 that no one than local Kashmiris buy land there. If it is removed made free for all Indians, then you will see how industries will set there and employment problem will solved definitely. But, it is unfortunate that few (very minor) separatists dictate the terms there. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of S. Jabbar Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:59 AM To: Shuddhabrata Sengupta; Sarai Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents MAIL TODAY ePaper Copyright © 2008 MAIL TODAY. Feb 20, 2010 'It is stifling to be young in Kashmir' by Sonia Jabbar ( As told to Neha Tara Mehta) THERES a major difference between 1990 and 2010. In 1990, Kashmiris really believed azadi was around the corner. Two historic events ‹ the withdrawal of the Soviet army from Afghanistan and the fall of the Berlin Wall ‹ convinced people that great powers were not invincible and the demonstrations in Kashmir, though full of anger, had a great degree of optimism. Today, the demonstrations flow from a deep well of nihilism and the reason for this is also located in recent history. >From 2000 onwards, when the Vajpayee government initiated a series of movements towards reconciliation with Pakistan on Kashmir ‹ the ceasefire in 2000 and the Lahore Pact ‹ it created a very positive atmosphere. Everyone, from General Pervez Musharraf on the Pakistani side to the mainstream political parties in Jammu and Kashmir, and the Kashmiri separatists, were outdoing each other to come up with creative solutions. There were talks, both public and secret, Track II meetings and round- table conferences at the highest levels. The 2002 elections were very successful and all this generated a great degree of public confidence and optimism. Both India and Pakistan failed to take advantage of the tremendous goodwill that they had generated. Nothing happened. By 2007, peoples hope started dwindling. There was no alternative but a life of constant tension between the guns of the army and those of the militants. Most young people in Kashmir view the Indian military presence from two perspectives: one, as an army of occupation, and two, as an irritant you have to negotiate with every day when you come across road blocks and bunkers. What do you do with a life that's continually disrupted by hartals and curfews? Young people in the rest of the country have no idea of just how stifling it is to be young in Kashmir. There doesnt seem to be a way out, so young people are filled with suspicion and cynicism. The Amarnath issue in 2008 was a non- issue. It was an excuse for the volcano of disappointment and frustration to erupt. The separatists took advantage of the groundswell. At that time I spent some time in downtown Srinagar. Though I found the stone- throwers employed by separatist groups as agent provocateurs, most of the demonstrators were young and gullible boys. These I found to be extremely frustrated youth who took to the streets at the slightest provocation. For some, it was a rite of passage to prove ones masculinity. It was considered an act of bravado to have taken on the police. These are young people who have grown up in the last 20 years, their movements constricted by the military presence and restriction on movements. An overwhelming majority ‹ 71 per cent of the Valleys population ‹ is under 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh ‹ half of them are college graduates. And because they cant settle in life financially, they marry much later. So you have young people who would normally have married in their early 20s, are now marrying in their late 20s or early 30s. This large population of frustrated, nihilistic young people is most susceptible to being drawn into another cycle of militancy. Death has more meaning for them than life. The only way this situation can be salvaged is if they see some forward movement on the Kashmir problem. > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:19:12 +0530 > To: reader-list list > Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > Dear All, Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs > in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 day > old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of protestors and > the infant's parents, who were being apparently prevailed upon to join their > protest - are shocking. The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is > barbaric and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. And the > mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants death in > Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has a great deal of > introspection to do about how it handles the day to day aspects of running a > protest movement. I think that the 'stone pelting' protests become in > several instances, episodes for lumpen young men to let off their macho > steam. The second Palestinian intifada degenerated into something that the > Israeli Armed Forces could completely crush because the twin tactics of > 'stone pelting' and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion > across the world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it > increasingly intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest > became a young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious > and non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the > same might occur in Kashmir. I remain convinced that the end of the military > occupation of the Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware > that the pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I > do not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. I > find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as instances > where children have either died or been severely injured by police, > paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the Kashmir valley. The > absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of > stones. sadly, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at > CSDS Raqs Media > Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net _____ > ____________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 11:55:44 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:55:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Scholastic Aviva Storytelling Night in Jaipur, Feb 26 Message-ID: http://blog.prathambooks.org/2010/02/scholastic-aviva-storytelling-night_23.html From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 12:21:32 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:21:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: <001501cab44a$025fe8e0$071fbaa0$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin, It would be useful to familiarize yourself about the industrial policies of the state before referring to the abolition of Article 370 as a quick fix. Perhaps this mail will help. The govt of J&K has a number of industrial estates in the Valley as well as in Jammu where highly subsidized land is available to entrepreneurs on long lease-- 90 years I think. Plus lots of other incentives to lure industrialists, but they haven't really worked. J&K had some industry before the troubles started in 1989. All of these closed down because of militancy including Mohan Meakin and HMT. There are other problems also which have nothing to do with the present political situation and that is geography and the fact that Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade route is now a backward frontier without access to traditional markets. Pakistan & India attempted to address this by opening traditional roads between the Valley and Muzaffarabad and Poonch and Rawlakot (proposed Kargil-Skardu road yet to be re-opened), but these have not been thought through because there are currency & banking issues. Plus there is the additional problem of the ban on telecommunications between the two regions so that traders cannot coordinate with each other. The third reason for economic decline is the fact that young people are no longer engaging in traditional cottage industry like carpet & shawl weaving, wood carving, papier mache etc, which used to rank amongst the finest in the world. The reason for this is the same in the rest of India, that is, manual labour is looked down upon. No one wants to work with their hands and everyone wants sarkari naukri or the equivalent, which is any white collared job. These are some of the challenges that have to be addressed if you are seriously thinking about J&K's economy. > From: Bipin > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:05:28 +0530 > To: "'S. Jabbar'" > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > Dear Jabbar, > > "An overwhelming majority 71 per cent of the Valleys population is under 35. > An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of the > strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The > unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh half of them are college graduates." > > Problem with article/law 370 that no one than local Kashmiris buy land there. > If it is removed made free for all Indians, then you will see how industries > will set there and employment problem will solved definitely. But, it is > unfortunate that few (very minor) separatists dictate the terms there. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On > Behalf Of S. Jabbar > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:59 AM > To: Shuddhabrata Sengupta; Sarai > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > > > MAIL TODAY ePaper > > > Copyright © 2008 MAIL TODAY. > > > Feb 20, 2010 > 'It is stifling to be young in Kashmir' > by Sonia Jabbar > ( As told to Neha Tara Mehta) > > > THERES a major difference between 1990 and 2010. In 1990, Kashmiris really > believed azadi was around the corner. Two historic events ‹ the withdrawal > of the Soviet army from Afghanistan and the fall of the Berlin Wall ‹ > convinced people that great powers were not invincible and the > demonstrations in Kashmir, though full of anger, had a great degree of > optimism. Today, the demonstrations flow from a deep well of nihilism and > the reason for this is also located in recent history. > > From 2000 onwards, when the Vajpayee government initiated a series of > movements towards reconciliation with Pakistan on Kashmir ‹ the ceasefire in > 2000 and the Lahore Pact ‹ it created a very positive atmosphere. Everyone, > from General Pervez Musharraf on the Pakistani side to the mainstream > political parties in Jammu and Kashmir, and the Kashmiri separatists, were > outdoing each other to come up with creative solutions. There were talks, > both public and secret, Track II meetings and round- table conferences at > the highest levels. The 2002 elections were very successful and all this > generated a great degree of public confidence and optimism. > > Both India and Pakistan failed to take advantage of the tremendous goodwill > that they had generated. Nothing happened. By 2007, peoples hope started > dwindling. There was no alternative but a life of constant tension > between the guns of the army and those of the militants. > > Most young people in Kashmir view the Indian military presence from two > perspectives: one, as an army of occupation, and two, as an irritant you > have to negotiate with every day when you come across road blocks and > bunkers. What do you do with a life that's continually disrupted by hartals > and curfews? Young people in the rest of the country have no idea of just > how stifling it is to be young in Kashmir. There doesnt seem to be a way > out, so young people are filled with suspicion and cynicism. > > > The Amarnath issue in 2008 was a non- issue. It was an excuse for the > volcano of disappointment and frustration to erupt. The separatists took > advantage of the groundswell. At that time I spent some time in downtown > Srinagar. Though I found the stone- throwers employed by separatist groups > as agent provocateurs, most of the demonstrators were young and gullible > boys. These I found to be extremely frustrated youth who took to the streets > at the slightest provocation. For some, it was a rite of passage to prove > ones masculinity. It was considered an act of bravado to have taken on the > police. > > These are young people who have grown up in the last 20 years, their > movements constricted by the military presence and restriction on movements. > An overwhelming majority ‹ 71 per cent of the Valleys population ‹ is under > 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of > the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The > unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh ‹ half of them are college graduates. > And because they cant settle in life financially, they marry much later. So > you have young people who would normally have married in their early 20s, > are now marrying in their late 20s or early 30s. > > This large population of frustrated, nihilistic young people is most > susceptible to being drawn into another cycle of militancy. Death has more > meaning for them than life. The only way this situation can be salvaged is > if they see some forward movement on the Kashmir problem. > > > > >> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:19:12 +0530 >> To: reader-list list >> Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents >> >> Dear All, > > Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs >> in > Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 > day >> old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of > protestors and >> the infant's parents, who were being apparently > prevailed upon to join their >> protest - are shocking. > > The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is >> barbaric and > needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. > > And the >> mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants > death in >> Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has > a great deal of >> introspection to do about how it handles the day to > day aspects of running a >> protest movement. I think that the 'stone > pelting' protests become in >> several instances, episodes for lumpen > young men to let off their macho >> steam. The second Palestinian > intifada degenerated into something that the >> Israeli Armed Forces > could completely crush because the twin tactics of >> 'stone pelting' > and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion >> across the > world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it >> increasingly > intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest >> became a > young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious >> and > non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the >> > same might occur in Kashmir. > > I remain convinced that the end of the military >> occupation of the > Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware >> that the > pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I >> do > not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. > I >> find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as > instances >> where children have either died or been severely injured by > police, >> paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the > Kashmir valley. > > The >> absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of >> stones. > > sadly, > > Shuddha > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at >> CSDS > Raqs Media >> Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _____ >> ____________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List >> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 12:26:14 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:26:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarat -Plan to provide Rs.5, 000-cr to poor women by 2014:Mod Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002222256p6828dd14u8de406bb8be5b83e@mail.gmail.com> Chief Minister Shri Narendrabhai Modi reiterated his commitment to free the poor from the shackles of exploitation through Garib Kalyan Mela addressing the second Shaheri Garib Kalyan Mela at Bapunagar in Ahmedabad. Modi said that Gujarat has discovered an infallible medicine in Garib Melas to cure the malady of poverty, establishing a direct contact with the poor, eliminating the moneylenders and middlemen. He said that our leaders have for the last 60 years provided just lip service to the poor, used them as a vote bank and filled their own coffers. Assistance-equipment worth Rs.21.38-crore under 31 schemes were distributed to 7,094 beneficiaries in ten wards of Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation in the Bapunagar area today. The first such Shaheri Garib Kalyan Mela was held in the Odhav locality earlier this week, having extended over Rs.64.94-crore to 13,119 beneficiaries so far. Earlier, nearly Rs.2,700-crore direct assistance have been provided to 25 poor families in 50-odd Garib Melas in rural areas. Similarly, he said the plan is to provide Rs.5,000-cr for economic empowerment of poor women by 2014. Over Rs.400-cr has already been extended to 1.25-lakh Sakhi Mandals so far. These Sakhi Mandals are managing their own accounts. He said that Rs.1,000-cr has been earmarked on this head for the current year as part of Gujarat’s Golden Jubilee celebrations. This newly discovered method of extending direct assistance to the poor has lent them the inherent strength to themselves fight poverty. In case any one received sub-standard or defective equipment, one could immediately inform the government by just sending across a postcard. From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 13:10:24 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:10:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarat -Plan to provide Rs.5, 000-cr to poor women by 2014:Mod In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a71002222256p6828dd14u8de406bb8be5b83e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a71002222256p6828dd14u8de406bb8be5b83e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002222340i37e89d22jefa802e1ea8a8736@mail.gmail.com> Modi's move to reach out to the poor of the state is praiseworthy but when he organised these fairs across the state, other political parties wanting to participate in a dialogue or to tell the minister about the problems of their respective areas were detained. Can anybody tell us why? If this is such a great move, why was dissent not allowed? Why was an MP from Dahod detained by the police when she wanted to ask the minister about the signs of drought affecting her constituency? Why even now a million from tribal areas of Panchmahals, Chhota Udepur or Narmada district still migrate? There have been 17 loots, according to the district police officials of three tribal dominated districts in eastern flank of Gujarat including a brazen attack on the state treasury and police armoury, a Bohra muslim couple being looted on the highway near Dahod by unidentified men? why do villagers of panchmahals and Dahod district after 6:30 PM start pelting stones at each other's house to keep awake? can narendra modi answer why quinine tablets are still sold in paan shops of muslim areas in godhra his health schemes are supposedly best in the country? why was a BJP MLA opposing the Nirma plant in his constituency because it would use all the water resources was attacked day before yesterday? why are there is significant increase in the number of people, including cattle rearing tribal families squatting on the footpaths of all the major urban centers of the state? these are just a few questions which i am sure would complete a report quoted by mr pawan. i am not disputing the claims of the modi government. it may be doing a wonderful job in comparison with other states but what is this way of highlighting a state government's initiative? On 2/23/10, Pawan Durani wrote: > Chief Minister Shri Narendrabhai Modi reiterated his commitment to > free the poor from the shackles of exploitation through Garib Kalyan > Mela addressing the second Shaheri Garib Kalyan Mela at Bapunagar in > Ahmedabad. > > Modi said that Gujarat has discovered an infallible medicine in Garib > Melas to cure the malady of poverty, establishing a direct contact > with the poor, eliminating the moneylenders and middlemen. > > He said that our leaders have for the last 60 years provided just lip > service to the poor, used them as a vote bank and filled their own > coffers. > > Assistance-equipment worth Rs.21.38-crore under 31 schemes were > distributed to 7,094 beneficiaries in ten wards of Ahmedabad Municipal > Corporation in the Bapunagar area today. The first such Shaheri Garib > Kalyan Mela was held in the Odhav locality earlier this week, having > extended over Rs.64.94-crore to 13,119 beneficiaries so far. > > Earlier, nearly Rs.2,700-crore direct assistance have been provided to > 25 poor families in 50-odd Garib Melas in rural areas. > > Similarly, he said the plan is to provide Rs.5,000-cr for economic > empowerment of poor women by 2014. Over Rs.400-cr has already been > extended to 1.25-lakh Sakhi Mandals so far. These Sakhi Mandals are > managing their own accounts. He said that Rs.1,000-cr has been > earmarked on this head for the current year as part of Gujarat’s > Golden Jubilee celebrations. > > This newly discovered method of extending direct assistance to the > poor has lent them the inherent strength to themselves fight poverty. > In case any one received sub-standard or defective equipment, one > could immediately inform the government by just sending across a > postcard. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 13:16:28 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:16:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: <8277AA5A-E267-4EA5-9B1C-F446AE159CFE@sarai.net> References: <8277AA5A-E267-4EA5-9B1C-F446AE159CFE@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6353c691002222346p281c43fy7fa38bd85cab72df@mail.gmail.com> Troubled for a year, J&K cops nab ‘kingpin’ of stone-peltersThe Times of India Feb 23, 2010 Link - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Troubled-for-a-year-JK-cops-nab-kingpin-of-stone-pelters/articleshow/5605216.cms SRINAGAR: Jammu & Kashmir police claimed to have achieved a major breakthrough in its campaign against stone-pelting in the Valley with the arrest of a former militant and the alleged kingpin of a gang of stone-pelters in Srinagar on Monday. Near-daily incidents of stone-pelting have become a major headache for the cops at several places in the Valley, particularly around Maisuma in downtown Srinagar. Motley crowds, comprising mainly youth, believed to be part of the gang regularly resort to stoning in a bid to keep the pot boiling as the violence has dipped to an all-time low since 1989. A police officer said Irshad Ahmed Zargar, a former member of now defunct al- Jehad outfit, was responsible for ‘‘every stone-pelting incident on the Valley’s streets’’. He said Zargar was picked up from his Srinagar residence following a tip-off from ‘‘some law-abiding citizen’’. Police said another 50 stone-pelters were also arrested. ‘‘The gang gets money from some businessmen and separatist groups,’’ the officer said. He said Zargar was arrested after cops received an e-mail on the gang’s modus-operandi and source of funding. Srinagar SSP Javid Riyaz Bedar said police were investigating the issue. ‘‘It would be premature to accuse any individual of funding the gang,’’ he said. Bedar said police were trying to get Zargar’s past militant record. A group of five masked boys, who assailed the Hurriyat, had recently appeared before the media and asked youth to stone cops ‘‘to divert world attention towards the Kashmir issue’’. Bedar said the police have identified the five and would take action against them. More than 2,000 people have been injured in stone-pelting incidents in last one year. A group of around 60 policemen, with another 100 in the backup team, are dedicated to control Maisuma’s stone-pelters and have mastered the art of shielding themselves and preventing the youth from disturbing life in the neighbouring areas. On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All, > > Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs in > Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 > day old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of > protestors and the infant's parents, who were being apparently > prevailed upon to join their protest - are shocking. > > The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is barbaric and > needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. > > And the mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants > death in Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has > a great deal of introspection to do about how it handles the day to > day aspects of running a protest movement. I think that the 'stone > pelting' protests become in several instances, episodes for lumpen > young men to let off their macho steam. The second Palestinian > intifada degenerated into something that the Israeli Armed Forces > could completely crush because the twin tactics of 'stone pelting' > and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion across the > world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it increasingly > intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest became a > young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious and > non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the > same might occur in Kashmir. > > I remain convinced that the end of the military occupation of the > Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware that the > pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I do > not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. > I find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as > instances where children have either died or been severely injured by > police, paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the > Kashmir valley. > > The absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of stones. > > sadly, > > Shuddha > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 23 14:49:02 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:19:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Nice story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <447720.42343.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> It is a good example of 'bridging finance' provided by the 'rich tourist'.   However, there is one critical flaw in this script.   Except the 'prostitute' everyone else was remunerated for goods supplied or services rendered.   The 'prostitute' gave her services on credit to the 'supplier of feed and fuel' and the 100 Euro she received from him she paid to the hotel. No renumeration for her services.   She would therefore not be a 'prostitute' but someone purely looking for a sexual encounter. One can only hope that it was a satisfactory one. She could be the 'charitable institution' who funded the cycle.   "Bridging finance" would not come without a cost but the the "rich tourist" was foolish to leave the 100 Euro note on the counter 'unsecured'. All that he got was the satisfaction of inspection the rooms of the hotel, which he did not like.   Such (or similar) economic scenarios are not unique to the USA   Kshmendra --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Jeebesh wrote: From: Jeebesh Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Nice story To: "Sarai Reader-list" Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 7:05 PM It is really a funny loop :) Begin forwarded message: > It is the month of June, on the shores of the Black Sea. > > It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. It is  > tough times, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit. > > Suddenly, a rich tourist comes to town. > > He enters the only hotel, lays a 100 Euro note on the reception  > counter, and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one. > > The hotel proprietor takes the 100 Euro note and runs to pay his  > debt to the butcher. > > The Butcher takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to the  > pig grower. > > The pig grower takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to  > the supplier of his feed and fuel. > > The supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 Euro note and runs to  > pay his debt to the town prostitute that in these hard times, gave  > her services on credit. > > The prostitute runs to the hotel, and pays off her debt with the 100  > Euro note to the hotel proprietor to pay for the rooms that she  > rented when she brought her clients there. > > The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 Euro note back on the counter  > so that the rich tourist will not suspect anything. > > At that moment, the rich tourist comes down after inspecting the  > rooms, and takes his 100 Euro note, after saying that he did not  > like any of the rooms, and leaves town. > > No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now without debt,  > and looks to the future with a lot of optimism. > > This is how the United States Government is doing business today. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pkray11 at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 14:59:03 2010 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (Prakash K Ray) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:59:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents Message-ID: <98f331e01002230129n41a8d743l6b1881078c19ea8f@mail.gmail.com> Hi, It is horrible to live in these violent times where the level of violence has surpassed all its earlier references. I share Shuddha's views expressed in his post. Few days back, a 200-strong Maoist terror gang raided a tribal village in Jamui district of Bihar. The gang killed and burnt to death 12 villagers including a woman and a child. The terrorists have kidnapped more than 10 villagers whoes fate is still unknown. Before leaving the village, the Maoists torched the entire village. The false claim of the Maoist terror that they fight for the poor and the tribal once again stands exposed. Another shocking part of this ghastly act is the use of child guerrilas as young as 12-13 years by the Maoist death squad. However, I am not at all shocked on the silence of numerous 'activists' who are 'champions' of peace, dignity and human rights. Regards, PKR From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 15:22:56 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: <98f331e01002230129n41a8d743l6b1881078c19ea8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Statement on Maoist attack on police camp in West Bengal We the undersigned would like to express our deep concern at the ongoing conflict in the Jangalmahal area of West Bengal where forces of the CPI (Maoist) and the Indian government have been confronting each other for the past year. The regular incidents of violence have resulted in the tragic loss of too many lives already- both of combatants and innocent civilians- and needs to come to an immediate end. The systematic annihilation of opponents and the gross violations of human rights by both sides in the conflict are a serious setback to the task of building a more just and humane Indian society. In this context the  attack by the CPI (Maoist) cadre on the Silda police camp in West Bengal on 15 February killing 24 policemen represents a severe escalation of an already ugly  situation in the Jangalmahal area. Coming at a time when there are active attempts being made by many sections of civil society to get the Indian government to call off its proposed ŒOperation Green Hunt¹ against the Maoists this provocative act by the latter can only result in a hardening of attitudes all around. While there are many genuine grievances of the local population against the West Bengal state government and the security forces operating in the tribal areas of West Midnapore ­ including arbitrary arrests and killings- none of them can be used to justify the latest Maoist action. In fact the purely military methods adopted by the CPI (Maoist) are inimical to the task of finding both short and long-term political solutions to the long-standing problems of the local people. Use of violence for political goals, however lofty, cannot mean violation of fundamental principles of humanity and there are also basic norms and conventions that need to be adhered to.  Every such killing and violation adds to the spiral of grief, trauma and revenge that is already consuming our polity; and from which the common people desperately need relief. Monday¹s attack on the Silda police camp also represents a contradiction of the CPI (Maoist)¹s own stated position, through media interviews of its top most leaders, of the need for talks with the government of India and the prevention of an Œall out war¹.  The massacre of police personnel also shows a lack of seriousness on the part of the CPI (Maoist) about its own publicly stated demand that for Œany kind of democratic work, the ban on the Party and Mass Organizations have to be lifted¹. The Indian State too should immediately stop all its violations of human rights in the Jangalmahal area, sincerely settle the problems of the local people and not use the latest Maoist attack as an excuse to go ahead with further intensification of the conflict. We the undersigned sincerely hope for a quick and peaceful resolution to the conflict, which is putting at grave risk the lives of a very large number of innocent people trapped between the Maoists and the Indian State. Prof. A. Marx, Chennai Bhaskar Vishwanathan, Chennai Praful Bidwai, New Delhi Dilip Simeon, New Delhi Apoorvanand, New Delhi Aditya Nigam,  New Delhi Nivedita Menon, New Delhi Amit Sengupta, New Delhi Satya Sivaraman, New Delhi and others.. > From: Prakash K Ray > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:59:03 +0530 > To: > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > Hi, It is horrible to live in these violent times where the level of > violence has surpassed all its earlier references. I share Shuddha's views > expressed in his post. Few days back, a 200-strong Maoist terror gang raided a > tribal village in Jamui district of Bihar. The gang killed and burnt to death > 12 villagers including a woman and a child. The terrorists have kidnapped > more than 10 villagers whoes fate is still unknown. Before leaving the > village, the Maoists torched the entire village. The false claim of the Maoist > terror that they fight for the poor and the tribal once again stands > exposed. Another shocking part of this ghastly act is the use of child > guerrilas as young as 12-13 years by the Maoist death squad. However, I am > not at all shocked on the silence of numerous 'activists' who are 'champions' > of peace, dignity and human > rights. Regards, PKR _________________________________________ reader-list: > an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 23 16:43:04 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:43:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: References: <000801cab458$c13ad320$43b07960$@in> Message-ID: <000301cab479$2b9ca890$82d5f9b0$@in> When industrial progress more or less going through all over India, but that of Kashmir is stagnant so definitely restriction like such law would be the key reason. -----Original Message----- From: S. Jabbar [mailto:sonia.jabbar at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:23 PM To: Bipin Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents How are you so sure? > From: Bipin > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:51:01 +0530 > To: "'S. Jabbar'" > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > But why article 370? It should be free for all Indians to buy land there. This > is perhaps hindrance of progress. Industries might not willing for lease and > they want there owner ship land instead. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: S. Jabbar [mailto:sonia.jabbar at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:22 PM > To: Bipin > Cc: Sarai > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > Dear Bipin, > It would be useful to familiarize yourself about the industrial policies of > the state before referring to the abolition of Article 370 as a quick fix. > Perhaps this mail will help. > > The govt of J&K has a number of industrial estates in the Valley as well as > in Jammu where highly subsidized land is available to entrepreneurs on long > lease-- 90 years I think. Plus lots of other incentives to lure > industrialists, but they haven't really worked. J&K had some industry > before the troubles started in 1989. All of these closed down because of > militancy including Mohan Meakin and HMT. > > There are other problems also which have nothing to do with the present > political situation and that is geography and the fact that Kashmir which > was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade route is now > a backward frontier without access to traditional markets. Pakistan & India > attempted to address this by opening traditional roads between the Valley > and Muzaffarabad and Poonch and Rawlakot (proposed Kargil-Skardu road yet to > be re-opened), but these have not been thought through because there are > currency & banking issues. Plus there is the additional problem of the ban > on telecommunications between the two regions so that traders cannot > coordinate with each other. > > The third reason for economic decline is the fact that young people are no > longer engaging in traditional cottage industry like carpet & shawl weaving, > wood carving, papier mache etc, which used to rank amongst the finest in the > world. The reason for this is the same in the rest of India, that is, > manual labour is looked down upon. No one wants to work with their hands > and everyone wants sarkari naukri or the equivalent, which is any white > collared job. > > These are some of the challenges that have to be addressed if you are > seriously thinking about J&K's economy. > > > > > > >> From: Bipin >> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:05:28 +0530 >> To: "'S. Jabbar'" >> Cc: sarai-list >> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents >> >> Dear Jabbar, >> >> "An overwhelming majority 71 per cent of the Valleys population is under 35. >> An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of the >> strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The >> unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh half of them are college graduates." >> >> Problem with article/law 370 that no one than local Kashmiris buy land there. >> If it is removed made free for all Indians, then you will see how industries >> will set there and employment problem will solved definitely. But, it is >> unfortunate that few (very minor) separatists dictate the terms there. >> >> Thanks >> Bipin >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On >> Behalf Of S. Jabbar >> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:59 AM >> To: Shuddhabrata Sengupta; Sarai >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents >> >> >> >> MAIL TODAY ePaper >> >> >> Copyright © 2008 MAIL TODAY. >> >> >> Feb 20, 2010 >> 'It is stifling to be young in Kashmir' >> by Sonia Jabbar >> ( As told to Neha Tara Mehta) >> >> >> THERES a major difference between 1990 and 2010. In 1990, Kashmiris really >> believed azadi was around the corner. Two historic events ‹ the withdrawal >> of the Soviet army from Afghanistan and the fall of the Berlin Wall ‹ >> convinced people that great powers were not invincible and the >> demonstrations in Kashmir, though full of anger, had a great degree of >> optimism. Today, the demonstrations flow from a deep well of nihilism and >> the reason for this is also located in recent history. >> >> From 2000 onwards, when the Vajpayee government initiated a series of >> movements towards reconciliation with Pakistan on Kashmir ‹ the ceasefire in >> 2000 and the Lahore Pact ‹ it created a very positive atmosphere. Everyone, >> from General Pervez Musharraf on the Pakistani side to the mainstream >> political parties in Jammu and Kashmir, and the Kashmiri separatists, were >> outdoing each other to come up with creative solutions. There were talks, >> both public and secret, Track II meetings and round- table conferences at >> the highest levels. The 2002 elections were very successful and all this >> generated a great degree of public confidence and optimism. >> >> Both India and Pakistan failed to take advantage of the tremendous goodwill >> that they had generated. Nothing happened. By 2007, peoples hope started >> dwindling. There was no alternative but a life of constant tension >> between the guns of the army and those of the militants. >> >> Most young people in Kashmir view the Indian military presence from two >> perspectives: one, as an army of occupation, and two, as an irritant you >> have to negotiate with every day when you come across road blocks and >> bunkers. What do you do with a life that's continually disrupted by hartals >> and curfews? Young people in the rest of the country have no idea of just >> how stifling it is to be young in Kashmir. There doesnt seem to be a way >> out, so young people are filled with suspicion and cynicism. >> >> >> The Amarnath issue in 2008 was a non- issue. It was an excuse for the >> volcano of disappointment and frustration to erupt. The separatists took >> advantage of the groundswell. At that time I spent some time in downtown >> Srinagar. Though I found the stone- throwers employed by separatist groups >> as agent provocateurs, most of the demonstrators were young and gullible >> boys. These I found to be extremely frustrated youth who took to the streets >> at the slightest provocation. For some, it was a rite of passage to prove >> ones masculinity. It was considered an act of bravado to have taken on the >> police. >> >> These are young people who have grown up in the last 20 years, their >> movements constricted by the military presence and restriction on movements. >> An overwhelming majority ‹ 71 per cent of the Valleys population ‹ is under >> 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of >> the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The >> unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh ‹ half of them are college graduates. >> And because they cant settle in life financially, they marry much later. So >> you have young people who would normally have married in their early 20s, >> are now marrying in their late 20s or early 30s. >> >> This large population of frustrated, nihilistic young people is most >> susceptible to being drawn into another cycle of militancy. Death has more >> meaning for them than life. The only way this situation can be salvaged is >> if they see some forward movement on the Kashmir problem. >> >> >> >> >>> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta >>> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:19:12 +0530 >>> To: reader-list list >>> Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents >>> >>> Dear All, >> >> Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs >>> in >> Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 >> day >>> old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of >> protestors and >>> the infant's parents, who were being apparently >> prevailed upon to join their >>> protest - are shocking. >> >> The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is >>> barbaric and >> needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. >> >> And the >>> mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants >> death in >>> Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has >> a great deal of >>> introspection to do about how it handles the day to >> day aspects of running a >>> protest movement. I think that the 'stone >> pelting' protests become in >>> several instances, episodes for lumpen >> young men to let off their macho >>> steam. The second Palestinian >> intifada degenerated into something that the >>> Israeli Armed Forces >> could completely crush because the twin tactics of >>> 'stone pelting' >> and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion >>> across the >> world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it >>> increasingly >> intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest >>> became a >> young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious >>> and >> non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the >>> >> same might occur in Kashmir. >> >> I remain convinced that the end of the military >>> occupation of the >> Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware >>> that the >> pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I >>> do >> not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. >> I >>> find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as >> instances >>> where children have either died or been severely injured by >> police, >>> paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the >> Kashmir valley. >> >> The >>> absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of >>> stones. >> >> sadly, >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at >>> CSDS >> Raqs Media >>> Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _____ >>> ____________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on >>> media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To >>> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List >>> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in >> the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4888 (20100222) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Feb 23 16:50:12 2010 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:50:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: <000301cab479$2b9ca890$82d5f9b0$@in> References: <000801cab458$c13ad320$43b07960$@in> <000301cab479$2b9ca890$82d5f9b0$@in> Message-ID: <887B1E1E-51CD-4258-96D2-F3E15AA69F9E@sarai.net> On 23-Feb-10, at 4:43 PM, Bipin wrote: > When industrial progress more or less going through all over India It will be helpful if you could explain this idea of "progress". What do you imply with it? And what would you mean by "more or less"? warmly jeebesh From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Feb 23 14:54:21 2010 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:54:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: <001501cab44a$025fe8e0$071fbaa0$@in> References: <8277AA5A-E267-4EA5-9B1C-F446AE159CFE@sarai.net> <001501cab44a$025fe8e0$071fbaa0$@in> Message-ID: <219FD551-1B57-4320-827C-155C30BBBFDC@sarai.net> Dear Bipin, I find your vision of a land grab of Kashmir, and the setting up of so called 'industries' deeply frightening. I think Kashmir is deeply fortunate to not yet have fallen to the acquisitive greed of 'Indian' industry, and article 370, at least on that front has acted as a lifesaver. However, Kashmir is in enough of a mess already, without adding large corporate, logging and mining interests into the mix. Look at what has happened in Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, West Bengal and Orissa - here, it is the wholesale exploitation, or threat of exploitation of the earth by rapacious industrial interests that has completely destroyed, or is in the process of destroying the cultural and ecological fabric of these spaces. I hope that day never comes for Kashmir. est Shuddha On 23-Feb-10, at 11:05 AM, Bipin wrote: > Dear Jabbar, > > "An overwhelming majority 71 per cent of the Valleys population is > under 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But > as a result of the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry > there are no jobs. The unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh half > of them are college graduates." > > Problem with article/law 370 that no one than local Kashmiris buy > land there. If it is removed made free for all Indians, then you > will see how industries will set there and employment problem will > solved definitely. But, it is unfortunate that few (very minor) > separatists dictate the terms there. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list- > bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of S. Jabbar > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:59 AM > To: Shuddhabrata Sengupta; Sarai > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents > > > > MAIL TODAY ePaper > > > Copyright © 2008 MAIL TODAY. > > > Feb 20, 2010 > 'It is stifling to be young in Kashmir' > by Sonia Jabbar > ( As told to Neha Tara Mehta) > > > THERES a major difference between 1990 and 2010. In 1990, Kashmiris > really > believed azadi was around the corner. Two historic events ‹ the > withdrawal > of the Soviet army from Afghanistan and the fall of the Berlin Wall ‹ > convinced people that great powers were not invincible and the > demonstrations in Kashmir, though full of anger, had a great degree of > optimism. Today, the demonstrations flow from a deep well of > nihilism and > the reason for this is also located in recent history. > > From 2000 onwards, when the Vajpayee government initiated a series of > movements towards reconciliation with Pakistan on Kashmir ‹ the > ceasefire in > 2000 and the Lahore Pact ‹ it created a very positive atmosphere. > Everyone, > from General Pervez Musharraf on the Pakistani side to the mainstream > political parties in Jammu and Kashmir, and the Kashmiri > separatists, were > outdoing each other to come up with creative solutions. There were > talks, > both public and secret, Track II meetings and round- table > conferences at > the highest levels. The 2002 elections were very successful and all > this > generated a great degree of public confidence and optimism. > > Both India and Pakistan failed to take advantage of the tremendous > goodwill > that they had generated. Nothing happened. By 2007, peoples hope > started > dwindling. There was no alternative but a life of constant tension > between the guns of the army and those of the militants. > > Most young people in Kashmir view the Indian military presence from > two > perspectives: one, as an army of occupation, and two, as an > irritant you > have to negotiate with every day when you come across road blocks and > bunkers. What do you do with a life that's continually disrupted by > hartals > and curfews? Young people in the rest of the country have no idea > of just > how stifling it is to be young in Kashmir. There doesnt seem to be > a way > out, so young people are filled with suspicion and cynicism. > > > The Amarnath issue in 2008 was a non- issue. It was an excuse for the > volcano of disappointment and frustration to erupt. The separatists > took > advantage of the groundswell. At that time I spent some time in > downtown > Srinagar. Though I found the stone- throwers employed by separatist > groups > as agent provocateurs, most of the demonstrators were young and > gullible > boys. These I found to be extremely frustrated youth who took to > the streets > at the slightest provocation. For some, it was a rite of passage to > prove > ones masculinity. It was considered an act of bravado to have taken > on the > police. > > These are young people who have grown up in the last 20 years, their > movements constricted by the military presence and restriction on > movements. > An overwhelming majority ‹ 71 per cent of the Valleys population ‹ > is under > 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a > result of > the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no > jobs. The > unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh ‹ half of them are college > graduates. > And because they cant settle in life financially, they marry much > later. So > you have young people who would normally have married in their > early 20s, > are now marrying in their late 20s or early 30s. > > This large population of frustrated, nihilistic young people is most > susceptible to being drawn into another cycle of militancy. Death > has more > meaning for them than life. The only way this situation can be > salvaged is > if they see some forward movement on the Kashmir problem. > > > > >> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:19:12 +0530 >> To: reader-list list >> Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents >> >> Dear All, > > Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs >> in > Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 > day >> old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of > protestors and >> the infant's parents, who were being apparently > prevailed upon to join their >> protest - are shocking. > > The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is >> barbaric and > needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. > > And the >> mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants > death in >> Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has > a great deal of >> introspection to do about how it handles the day to > day aspects of running a >> protest movement. I think that the 'stone > pelting' protests become in >> several instances, episodes for lumpen > young men to let off their macho >> steam. The second Palestinian > intifada degenerated into something that the >> Israeli Armed Forces > could completely crush because the twin tactics of >> 'stone pelting' > and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion >> across the > world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it >> increasingly > intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest >> became a > young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious >> and > non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the >> > same might occur in Kashmir. > > I remain convinced that the end of the military >> occupation of the > Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware >> that the > pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I >> do > not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. > I >> find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as > instances >> where children have either died or been severely injured by > police, >> paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the > Kashmir valley. > > The >> absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of >> stones. > > sadly, > > Shuddha > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at >> CSDS > Raqs Media >> Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _____ >> ____________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List >> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 23 17:22:52 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:52:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Message-ID: <477654.91400.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sonia   Bipin seems to have inadvertently posted into the Reader List your correspondence with him.   The two of you were discussing Abolition of Article 370 / Industrial Policies / Business and Employment Opportunities. Very pertinent observations by you.   I found interesting/intriguing the following comment by you:   """"" the fact that Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade route """"""   I wonder what you meant by "HUB".   The two of you were discussing Indian Controlled Kashmir. Please do inform when it was that Kashmir was a "hub" on the the Central Asia Trade Route. There must be credible references testifying to that. Never too late to learn.   While asking my question I have kept in mind both the routing of the "Silk Road" as well as that of the "Mughal Road" (and it's purpose).   Repeating myself, Indian Controlled Kashmir is under reference and especially the Valley   Kshmendra   From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 23 18:07:19 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:07:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents In-Reply-To: <219FD551-1B57-4320-827C-155C30BBBFDC@sarai.net> References: <8277AA5A-E267-4EA5-9B1C-F446AE159CFE@sarai.net> <001501cab44a$025fe8e0$071fbaa0$@in> <219FD551-1B57-4320-827C-155C30BBBFDC@sarai.net> Message-ID: <000301cab484$f11553f0$d33ffbd0$@in> Dear Shuddha, It is Jabbar's question to solve unemployment in the Kashmir I told him for industrialization it does not mean only mining. There are so many industries can be set up without effecting environment. If its freed from 370 then I am sure terrorism can be control, since industry will generate huge employment. Thanks Bipin From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta [mailto:shuddha at sarai.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:54 PM To: Bipin Cc: 'S. Jabbar'; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents Dear Bipin, I find your vision of a land grab of Kashmir, and the setting up of so called 'industries' deeply frightening. I think Kashmir is deeply fortunate to not yet have fallen to the acquisitive greed of 'Indian' industry, and article 370, at least on that front has acted as a lifesaver. However, Kashmir is in enough of a mess already, without adding large corporate, logging and mining interests into the mix. Look at what has happened in Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, West Bengal and Orissa - here, it is the wholesale exploitation, or threat of exploitation of the earth by rapacious industrial interests that has completely destroyed, or is in the process of destroying the cultural and ecological fabric of these spaces. I hope that day never comes for Kashmir. est Shuddha On 23-Feb-10, at 11:05 AM, Bipin wrote: Dear Jabbar, "An overwhelming majority 71 per cent of the Valleys population is under 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh half of them are college graduates." Problem with article/law 370 that no one than local Kashmiris buy land there. If it is removed made free for all Indians, then you will see how industries will set there and employment problem will solved definitely. But, it is unfortunate that few (very minor) separatists dictate the terms there. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of S. Jabbar Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:59 AM To: Shuddhabrata Sengupta; Sarai Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents MAIL TODAY ePaper Copyright C 2008 MAIL TODAY. Feb 20, 2010 'It is stifling to be young in Kashmir' by Sonia Jabbar ( As told to Neha Tara Mehta) THERES a major difference between 1990 and 2010. In 1990, Kashmiris really believed azadi was around the corner. Two historic events < the withdrawal of the Soviet army from Afghanistan and the fall of the Berlin Wall < convinced people that great powers were not invincible and the demonstrations in Kashmir, though full of anger, had a great degree of optimism. Today, the demonstrations flow from a deep well of nihilism and the reason for this is also located in recent history. >From 2000 onwards, when the Vajpayee government initiated a series of movements towards reconciliation with Pakistan on Kashmir < the ceasefire in 2000 and the Lahore Pact < it created a very positive atmosphere. Everyone, from General Pervez Musharraf on the Pakistani side to the mainstream political parties in Jammu and Kashmir, and the Kashmiri separatists, were outdoing each other to come up with creative solutions. There were talks, both public and secret, Track II meetings and round- table conferences at the highest levels. The 2002 elections were very successful and all this generated a great degree of public confidence and optimism. Both India and Pakistan failed to take advantage of the tremendous goodwill that they had generated. Nothing happened. By 2007, peoples hope started dwindling. There was no alternative but a life of constant tension between the guns of the army and those of the militants. Most young people in Kashmir view the Indian military presence from two perspectives: one, as an army of occupation, and two, as an irritant you have to negotiate with every day when you come across road blocks and bunkers. What do you do with a life that's continually disrupted by hartals and curfews? Young people in the rest of the country have no idea of just how stifling it is to be young in Kashmir. There doesnt seem to be a way out, so young people are filled with suspicion and cynicism. The Amarnath issue in 2008 was a non- issue. It was an excuse for the volcano of disappointment and frustration to erupt. The separatists took advantage of the groundswell. At that time I spent some time in downtown Srinagar. Though I found the stone- throwers employed by separatist groups as agent provocateurs, most of the demonstrators were young and gullible boys. These I found to be extremely frustrated youth who took to the streets at the slightest provocation. For some, it was a rite of passage to prove ones masculinity. It was considered an act of bravado to have taken on the police. These are young people who have grown up in the last 20 years, their movements constricted by the military presence and restriction on movements. An overwhelming majority < 71 per cent of the Valleys population < is under 35. An estimated 74 per cent of the youth are educated. But as a result of the strife, stagnant economy and absence of industry there are no jobs. The unemployment figure has touched 4 lakh < half of them are college graduates. And because they cant settle in life financially, they marry much later. So you have young people who would normally have married in their early 20s, are now marrying in their late 20s or early 30s. This large population of frustrated, nihilistic young people is most susceptible to being drawn into another cycle of militancy. Death has more meaning for them than life. The only way this situation can be salvaged is if they see some forward movement on the Kashmir problem. From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:19:12 +0530 To: reader-list list Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad Incidents Dear All, Two bits of news that came in, of a Taleban beheading of two sikhs in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province, and of the death of an 11 day old infant in Kashmir, during a scuffle between a group of protestors and the infant's parents, who were being apparently prevailed upon to join their protest - are shocking. The Taleban's beheading of the two Pakistani Sikhs is barbaric and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. And the mindless hot-headedness of those who precipitated the infants death in Kashmir also points to the fact that the pro-Azadi camp has a great deal of introspection to do about how it handles the day to day aspects of running a protest movement. I think that the 'stone pelting' protests become in several instances, episodes for lumpen young men to let off their macho steam. The second Palestinian intifada degenerated into something that the Israeli Armed Forces could completely crush because the twin tactics of 'stone pelting' and suicide bombing totally alienated both public opinion across the world, and also ensured that ordinary citizens found it increasingly intimidating to be a part of the protest process. Protest became a young men and adoloscent boys fantasy of militancy, not a serious and non-violent challenge to state power. There is a real danger that the same might occur in Kashmir. I remain convinced that the end of the military occupation of the Kashmir valley is a worthwhile goal. I am also fully aware that the pro-Azadi camp is fuelled at present by little other than rage. I do not think that rage alone is a basis for a worthwhile political goal. I find the incident in which the infant died, as regrettable as instances where children have either died or been severely injured by police, paramilitary or army actions in the recent past in the Kashmir valley. The absence of a vision can never be made up for by a surfeit of stones. sadly, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net _____ ____________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 23 18:18:07 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:18:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: <477654.91400.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <477654.91400.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801cab486$7343f010$59cbd030$@in> Dear Kshemendra, Abolition of article 370 is my point of view (and so many my fellow Indians also) will help Kashmir bring back in the normal situation and get amalgamated with India. I don't want to look into the Kashmir history, but looking to the future of it. Whatever happened in the history, good or bad is past, but I am looking for the probable prosperity in the future. And not only valley but whole Jammu & Kashmir even including POK since one day it will be with India only. So, I am looking to broader prospect and not at all restricting to valley. Since, problem created in valley by so called separatists only and they Are responsible for present situation and huge unemployment. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:23 PM To: Sonia Jabbar; sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Dear Sonia Bipin seems to have inadvertently posted into the Reader List your correspondence with him. The two of you were discussing Abolition of Article 370 / Industrial Policies / Business and Employment Opportunities. Very pertinent observations by you. I found interesting/intriguing the following comment by you: """"" the fact that Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade route """""" I wonder what you meant by "HUB". The two of you were discussing Indian Controlled Kashmir. Please do inform when it was that Kashmir was a "hub" on the the Central Asia Trade Route. There must be credible references testifying to that. Never too late to learn. While asking my question I have kept in mind both the routing of the "Silk Road" as well as that of the "Mughal Road" (and it's purpose). Repeating myself, Indian Controlled Kashmir is under reference and especially the Valley Kshmendra _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 23 19:24:36 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:54:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: <000801cab486$7343f010$59cbd030$@in> Message-ID: <558887.59070.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Bipin   It is not possible to abolish Art 370 so I would suggest that you do not factor in any such possibility if you are looking at how to improve the situation in Kashmir.   Art370 is so deeply embedded in the Constitution of India (COI) that it has been humourously opined that it is possible to amend every Article of COI other than Art 370.   There is always the possibilty of:   - Declaring an Emergency and suspending Art 370 during the pendancy of Emergency. Such an Emergency would have to declared in all of India and not just J&K because Art370 is a ruling provision in COI and reflected secondarily in the Constitution of J&K.   Such a suspension would in any case be a temporary suspension and post lifting of Emergency any steps of Constitutional Import have to be ratified by due processes as specified in COI. Which brings you back to square one.   - The other possibility is one through playing havoc with the COI by Unconstitutional Amendments to various other Articles.   For this to happen in connection with Art370, it would require a political party like BJP having a two-thirds majority in both houses of the Parliament and similar Legislative Control in at least 50 percent of the States.   I do not see that happening in my lifetime.   Kshmendra --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Bipin wrote: From: Bipin Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" Cc: "sarai-list" Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 6:18 PM Dear Kshemendra, Abolition of article 370 is my point of view (and so many my fellow Indians also) will help Kashmir bring back in the normal situation and get amalgamated with India. I don't want to look into the Kashmir history, but looking to the future of it. Whatever happened in the history, good or bad is past, but I am looking for the probable prosperity in the future. And not only valley but whole Jammu & Kashmir even including POK since one day it will be with India only. So, I am looking to broader prospect and not at all restricting to valley. Since, problem created in valley by so called separatists only and they Are responsible for present situation and huge unemployment. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:23 PM To: Sonia Jabbar; sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Dear Sonia Bipin seems to have inadvertently posted into the Reader List your correspondence with him. The two of you were discussing Abolition of Article 370 / Industrial Policies / Business and Employment Opportunities. Very pertinent observations by you. I found interesting/intriguing the following comment by you: """"" the fact that Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade route """""" I wonder what you meant by "HUB". The two of you were discussing Indian Controlled Kashmir. Please do inform when it was that Kashmir was a "hub" on the the Central Asia Trade Route. There must be credible references testifying to that. Never too late to learn. While asking my question I have kept in mind both the routing of the "Silk Road" as well as that of the "Mughal Road" (and it's purpose). Repeating myself, Indian Controlled Kashmir is under reference and especially the Valley Kshmendra       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From justjunaid at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 19:49:23 2010 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:19:23 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad incidents Message-ID: Dear Shuddha, I agree with you completely that the death of infant Irfan due to a scuffle between parents and the protestors in Baramulla is an inexcusable act. Those who are responsible must be brought to justice, and they deserve severe punishment. This is not the only incident that has made me very skeptical of letting young men take independent control over the Kashmiri struggle. In 2008, I witnessed a Kashmiri bureaucrat and his family humiliated and slapped by protestors when their car passed through protesting youth. The bureaucrat kept pleading that they were running from Jammu where they had been attacked by protestors. It was only after intervention by some mosque elders that they were let through. At many places it's sheer "rage" as you pointed out, and "frustration and machismo" as Sonia mentioned, instead of a clear political program that drives these spontaneous protests. But it think it has another reasons too. These protests largely started after the Indian government came down heavily on peaceful protests in 2008. Though there were stone-pelting incidents before but they were neither consistent nor so widespread. >From August to December 2008 the government put Kashmir under weeks and weeks of intense curfews and arrested hundreds of political activists and commoners. This crippling of life--and stiffling of protests--was coupled with the election drama. The entire election took place under curfew, as they happened district by district. Indian government was conducting elections for Kashmiri people against Kashmiri people, many people would say. But in any case the scope for any sort of peaceful resistance was obliterated by the Indian crackdown. It is in this context that stone-pelting became a mode of expressing dissent. I don't agree with this mode, because it lacks clarity and has a potential to go totally wrong, as Irfan's death has just showed. It creates anger among Kashmiris themselves. Many middle-class Kashmiris (quite typically!) have become wary of it, they think of it as an inconvenience in their daily lives. It also lends itself to great manipulation and sabotage. Last year a few masked stone-pelter came out of nowhere in Anantnag on a "normal" day and started pelting stones on private cars. Local people got together and rounded them up, and it was found out that they were carrying BJP cards (yes, the BJP has a 'presence' there!). They were handed over to the police, but were released immediately, and no charges were filed. "Policemen in civvies" has become a common phenomenon during these protests. In fact only a couple of days back JK Armed Police men beat a bunch of "Policemen in civvies' to pulp. It is not known why it happened or what the policemen-in-civvies were doing. Junaid From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 20:05:24 2010 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:05:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Sad incidents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a71002230635m6d82c2c9s92654adc04074f58@mail.gmail.com> I am amazed at the ' cleverness ' of Junaid. and how he has tried to justify the stone pelting mob . He has exact idea of the the "liberals' among this list and what the so called 'liberals' like to read. Very cleverly he has put blame on Indian State , justified stone peltinng and to top it all blamed a 'perceived' Hindu supporting BJP , a political party, Well done Junaid, there are people in this list who would fall for your game..... as they did previously....as most of those who would fall for your trap are those whose ideology is already dead world over and they have a history of supporting separatist movement all across India ...overtly or covertly... Pawan On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Junaid wrote: > Dear Shuddha, > > I agree with you completely that the death of infant Irfan due to a > scuffle between parents and the protestors in Baramulla is an > inexcusable act. Those who are responsible must be brought to justice, > and they deserve severe punishment. This is not the only incident that > has made me very skeptical of letting young men take independent > control over the Kashmiri struggle. In 2008, I witnessed a Kashmiri > bureaucrat and his family humiliated and slapped by protestors when > their car passed through protesting youth. The bureaucrat kept > pleading that they were running from Jammu where they had been > attacked by protestors. It was only after intervention by some mosque > elders that they were let through. At many places it's sheer "rage" as > you pointed out, and "frustration and machismo" as Sonia mentioned, > instead of a clear political program that drives these spontaneous > protests. But it think it has another reasons too. > > These protests largely started after the Indian government came down > heavily on peaceful protests in 2008. Though there were stone-pelting > incidents before but they were neither consistent nor so widespread. > From August to December 2008 the government put Kashmir under weeks > and weeks of intense curfews and arrested hundreds of political > activists and commoners. This crippling of life--and stiffling of > protests--was coupled with the election drama. The entire election > took place under curfew, as they happened district by district. Indian > government was conducting elections for Kashmiri people against > Kashmiri people, many people would say. But in any case the scope for > any sort of peaceful resistance was obliterated by the Indian > crackdown. It is in this context that stone-pelting became a mode of > expressing dissent. I don't agree with this mode, because it lacks > clarity and has a potential to go totally wrong, as Irfan's death has > just showed. It creates anger among Kashmiris themselves. Many > middle-class Kashmiris (quite typically!) have become wary of it, they > think of it as an inconvenience in their daily lives. It also lends > itself to great manipulation and sabotage. Last year a few masked > stone-pelter came out of nowhere in Anantnag on a "normal" day and > started pelting stones on private cars. Local people got together and > rounded them up, and it was found out that they were carrying BJP > cards (yes, the BJP has a 'presence' there!). They were handed over to > the police, but were released immediately, and no charges were filed. > "Policemen in civvies" has become a common phenomenon during these > protests. In fact only a couple of days back JK Armed Police men beat > a bunch of "Policemen in civvies' to pulp. It is not known why it > happened or what the policemen-in-civvies were doing. > > Junaid > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 20:11:48 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:11:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: <477654.91400.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Very briefly: there are 2 routes that lead into C. Asia from the erstwhile state of J&K. 1. Via Gilgit & Hunza through the Khunjerab Pass 2. Via Leh & Nubra through the Karakorum Pass These routes allowed traders from north India to bypass the longer and more treacherous routes through the NWFP and Afghanistan. Hub, very simply means a node through which trade passed. The more appropriate word is entrepot. Since time immemorial traders used these routes into Kashgar and Yarkand respectively. In the 19th c. the British East India co. realized the value of these 2 passes and so began their totally schizophrenic relationship with the Dogras starting with Gulab Singh himself, whose rule they began to undermine from 1846 itself. This policy continued with Ranbir Singh and Pratap Singh respectively until they pressured Kashmir to lease the Gilgit Agency to them in, if I remember correctly, 1931. The Mughal Road has little or nothing to do with the Silk Route. The latter was the east-west route between China and Europe that went through present day Xinjiang and the Central Asian states of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan etc. The 2 north-south routes from Kashmir were like tributaries from which flowed pilgrims, scholars and traders (Buddhism went from Kashmir into C.Asia and onwards to China & Japan through this route). The Mughal Road simply links Rajouri and Poonch with the Kashmir Valley and yes, it could be argued that there was a flow of traffic that went through this route into the Valley and from there over the Zoji La into Ladakh and then onward through Nubra into C.Asia. Further reading: The Gilgit Game, John Keay; Tournament of Shadows, Meyer & Bryzac; The Great Game, Peter Hopkirk, Kashmir & C.Asia., K.N. Warikoo From: Kshmendra Kaul Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:52:52 -0800 (PST) To: Sonia Jabbar , sarai list Subject: Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Dear Sonia Bipin seems to have inadvertently posted into the Reader List your correspondence with him. The two of you were discussing Abolition of Article 370 / Industrial Policies / Business and Employment Opportunities. Very pertinent observations by you. I found interesting/intriguing the following comment by you: """"" the fact that Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade route """""" I wonder what you meant by "HUB". The two of you were discussing Indian Controlled Kashmir. Please do inform when it was that Kashmir was a "hub" on the the Central Asia Trade Route. There must be credible references testifying to that. Never too late to learn. While asking my question I have kept in mind both the routing of the "Silk Road" as well as that of the "Mughal Road" (and it's purpose). Repeating myself, Indian Controlled Kashmir is under reference and especially the Valley Kshmendra From anansi1 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 23 20:52:07 2010 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:22:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] The Irrational Conservative: Cognitive lessons from Voters Message-ID: <4783972.1266938528588.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Interesting article applying cognitive science to how voters respond to political "brands" - as applied industrial psychology. Paul http://www.truthout.org/obama-tea-parties-and-battle-our-brains57089 Obama, Tea Parties and the Battle for Our Brains Monday 22 February 2010 by: George Lakoff, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed photo (Image: Jared Rodriguez / t r u t h o u t; Adapted: Jeff Kubina, zen, ajagendorf25) Over the past couple of weeks, The New York Times has been reporting on results from the cognitive and brain sciences that confirm past research in those fields partly by me and partly by my community of colleagues. What makes this of general, not personal, interest is that the scientific results are especially important for understanding what has been going wrong for the Obama administration and for liberals generally, and what has been going right for conservatives. I'm going to start out with some science, and get on to the politics after brief discussions of three important New York Times' articles and what they mean scientifically. It's always satisfying for a scientist to see his or her predictions proved right experimentally (which happens often), and actually discussed in the press (which happens rarely). As a cognitive scientist and linguist, it's been a good couple of weeks for me and my colleagues, especially in The New York Times. Experiments are hard to do, and I celebrate all the experimenters cited. Experiments are also hard to report on, and I praise the journalists at the Times for a fine job. Metaphor and Embodiment Back in 1980, Mark Johnson and I, in "Metaphors We Live By", demonstrated the existence of metaphorical thought and argued that metaphor and other aspects of mind were embodied. That book, and our 1987 books, my "Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things" and Johnson's "The Body in the Mind," helped to start a cottage industry in the study of embodied cognition. The experimental results confirming our theories of embodied cognition have been coming in regularly, especially in the area of metaphorical thought. Natalie Angier, on February 1, summarized some of the recent research very clearly: * A University of Amsterdam study showed that subjects thinking about the future leaned forward, while those thinking about the past leaned backward. This was predicted by the 1980 analysis of common European metaphors in which the future is ahead and the past is behind. This is not just a matter of language, but of thought, as Johnson and I showed. * At Yale, researchers found that subjects holding warm coffee in advance were more likely to evaluate an imaginary individual as warm and friendly than those holding cold coffee. This is predicted by the conceptual metaphor that affection is warmth, as in, She gave me a warm greeting. * At the University of Toronto, subjects were asked to remember a time when they were either socially accepted or socially snubbed. Those with warm memories of acceptance judged the room to be five degrees warmer on the average than those who remembered being coldly snubbed. * Subjects asked to think about a moral transgression like adultery or cheating on a test were more likely to request an antiseptic cloth after the experiment than those who had thought about good deeds. The well-known conceptual metaphor morality is purity predicts this behavior. * Students told that that a particular book was important judged it to be physically heavier than a book that they were told was unimportant. The conceptual metaphor is important is heavy. * In a parallel study with heavy versus light clipboards, those with the heavy clipboards were more likely like to judge currency to be more valuable and their opinions and their leaders more important. * And in doing arithmetic, students who used their hands to group numbers together had an easier time doing problems that required conceptual grouping. This is predicted by the analysis of mathematics in "Where Mathematics Comes From" by myself and Rafael Núñez, where we show how mathematics from the simple to the advanced is based on embodied metaphorical cognition. These results don't happen by magic. How can these results be explained? Johnson's and my 1999 book, "Philosophy in the Flesh," incorporated a neural theory of how embodied metaphorical thought works. What a child is regularly held affectionately by its parents, two distinct brain areas are activated simultaneously - one for temperature and one for affection. The synapses in both areas are strengthened and activation spreads along existing pathways until the shortest pathway between the areas is found and a circuit is formed. That circuit is the neural realization of what is called a "primary metaphor" that is embodied. Hundreds of such cases are formed unconsciously and automatically in childhood. My Berkeley colleague, Srini Narayanan, has shown what computational properties such circuits must have. In still unpublished work, he has shown that the relative timing of first spikes across a synapse predicts the directionality of elementary metaphors in all known cases. The very idea that such low-level phenomena at the level of neurons can result in the vast range of metaphorical thought is truly remarkable. A crucial part of the story of embodied cognition comes from the neuroscience of the 1990s, which showed that the same brain regions used in actually moving and perceiving are used in imagining and remembering moving and perceiving. These results led Jerome Feldman to the crucial idea that meaningful thought expressible in language is mental simulation that uses the neural structures of the sensory-motor system to imagine what is embodied, usually below the level of consciousness. These are experimental findings and theories based on considerable evidence. Taken together, they explain the results of the experiments: Primary metaphorical thought arises when a neural circuit is formed linking two brain areas activated when experiences occur together repeatedly. Typically, one of the experiences is physical. In each experiment, each subject has the physical experience activating one of the brain regions and another experience (e.g., emotional or temporal) activating the other brain region for the given metaphor. The activation of both regions activates the metaphorical link. Thus, if the metaphor is future is ahead and past is behind, thinking about the future will activate the brain region for moving forward. If the metaphor is affection is warmth, holding warm coffee will activate the brain region for experiencing affection. Angier did not seek out the theoretical studies that allow these explanations - and led to the performance of the experiments in the first place. That's too much to ask of a New York Times article. But it was nice to see some of the relevant experiments reported on in The New York Times, even if the explanations were left out. These cases don't have any direct political implications in themselves, but they are indirectly important, as we shall see. Words and Polls The past week in The New York Times was also pretty good for me with respect to predictions. There was a CBS/New York Times poll that showed support for ending "don't ask, don't tell" varied considerably depending on whether "homosexuals" or "gay men and lesbians" was used in the question. "Gay men and lesbians" got a lot more support - in the ball park of 15 percent more, which is a HUGE difference on a poll. Those of you who've read my "Don't Think of an Elephant!" and "The Political Mind" will be familiar with the basic results of frame semantics, developed by my Berkeley colleague Charles Fillmore and others within the cognitive and brain sciences. The first basic result: The meaning of every word is characterized in terms of a brain circuit called a "frame." Frames are often characterized in terms of the usual apparatus of mental life: metaphors, images, cultural narratives - and neural links to the emotion centers of the brain. The narrow, literal meaning of a word is only one aspect of its frame-semantic meaning. The second basic result is that this is mostly unconscious, like 98 percent of human thought. On the inherent link between semantic and emotion, see my discussion in "The Political Mind," (chapter one) and the excellent books by Antonio Damasio ("Descartes' Error") and Drew Westen ("The Political Brain"). "Homosexual" is simply defined via a different frame than "gay men and lesbians." Professor Geoffrey Stone of the University of Chicago, writing in the Huffington Post on February 13, described the difference: "Homosexual" conjures up dark visions of filthy bodily acts that arouse deeply-rooted feelings of disgust and ancient fears of Sodom and Gomorrah and hell and damnation. "Gay men and lesbians," on the other hand, increasingly reminds us of people we know - sons and daughters, cousins and classmates, nieces and nephews, coworkers and neighbors. In short, there is a big difference in meaning - the framing difference between the thought of gay sex and the idea of the civil rights of people in your community. The consequences are political, as Professor Stone observed: When we hear religious leaders or politicians referring to "homosexuals in the military," "homosexual marriage," or "special rights for homosexuals," we must recognize what they are doing. Especially for the 15 percent of Americans who react so viscerally to the term "homosexual," they are trying to chew their way into the worst parts of our psyches in order to manipulate our beliefs and values and make us worse people than we really are. I've been writing for years about how effective the right wing has been at framing, and how progressives often use right-wing language, even in polls. I have had numerous discussions with well-known pollsters who did not get the point and could not distinguish commonplace language from commonplace language that activated right-wing frames. The cognitive science matters here. The CBS/New York Times poll results were to be expected given our current understanding of how words get their meaning by being neurally linked to frame-circuits. Blinks, Worms and Spankers * Nick Kristof, in his February 14 column, discussed three experiments distinguishing conservatives from liberals: * In one experiment, the strength of blink reflexes to unexpected noises was measured and correlated with degrees of reactions to external threats. Conservatives reacted considerably more strongly than liberals. * Another experiment was based on the fact that disgust reactions create glandular secretions that change skin conductance. Subjects were shown disgusting images (like some eating a handful of worms). Liberals reacted mildly, but conservative reactions went off the charts. * A third study showed a strong correlation between attitudes toward spanking and voting patterns: spanking states tend to go Republican. The experimenters correlated spanking preferences with what they called "cognitive styles." As Kristof reported it, "Spankers tend to see the world in stark, black-and-white terms, perceive the social order as vulnerable and under attack, tend to make strong distinctions between 'us' and 'them,' and emphasize order and muscular responses to threats. Parents favoring timeouts feel more comfortable with ambiguities, sense less threat, embrace minority groups - and are less prone to disgust when they see a man eating worms." * All three results follow from a cognitive science study called "Moral Politics," which I published in 1996 and was reprinted in 2002. There, I observed that conservatives and liberals had opposite moral worldviews structured by metaphor around two profoundly different models of the ideal family: a strict father family for conservatives and a nurturant parent family for liberals. In the ideal strict father family, the world is seen as a dangerous place and the father functions as protector from "others" and the parent who teaches children absolute right from wrong by punishing them physically (painful spanking or worse) when they do wrong. The father is the ultimate authority; children are to obey, and immoral practices are seen as disgusting. Ideal liberal families are based on nurturance, which breaks down into empathy, responsibility - for both oneself and others, and excellence: doing as well as one can to make oneself better and one's family and community better. Parents are to practice these things and children are to learn them by example. Because our first experience with being governed in is our families, we all learn a basic metaphor: A governing institution is a family, where the governing institution can be a church, a school, a team or a nation. The nation-as-family version gives us the idea of founding fathers, Mother India and Mother Russia, the Fatherland, homeland security etc. Apply these monolithically to our politics and you get extreme conservative and progressive moral systems, defining what is right and wrong to each side. There is no moral system of the moderate or the middle. Because of a neural phenomenon called "mutual inhibition," two opposing moral systems can live in brain circuits that inhibit each other and are active in different contexts. For a nonpolitical example, consider Saturday night and Sunday morning moral systems, which coexist in the brains of many Americans. The same is true of "moderates," who are conservative on some issues and progressive on others, though there may be variations from person to person. Kristof doesn't mention "Moral Politics," though he got a copy at a Democratic Senate retreat in 2003, at which we both spoke. If "Moral Politics" is still on his bookshelf, I suggest he take a look. I also recommend it to anyone who wants to understand the difference between conservative and progressive moral systems. Conservative Populism and Tea Partiers After the Goldwater defeat of 1964, conservatism was a dirty word and most Americans wanted to be liberals, especially working people who were highly unionized. Lee Atwater and colleagues, working for the 1968 Nixon campaign, had a problem: How to get a significant number of working people to become conservative enough to vote for Nixon. They intuited what I have since called "biconceptualism" (see "The Political Mind") - the fact that many Americans have both conservative and progressive views, but in different contexts and on different issues. Mutual inhibition in brain circuitry means the strengthening of one weakens the other. They found a way to both strengthen conservative views and weaken liberal views, creating a conservative populism. Here's how they did it. They realized that by the late '60s many working people were disturbed by the antiwar demonstrations; so Nixon ran on anti-communism. They noticed that many working men were upset by radical feminists; so they pushed traditional family values. And they realized that, after the civil rights legislation, many working men, especially in the South, were threatened by blacks. So, they ran Nixon on law and order. At the same time, they created the concept of "the liberal elite" - the tax-and-spend liberals, the liberal media, the Hollywood liberals, the limousine liberals and so on. They created language for all these ideas and have been repeating it ever since. Even though liberals have worked tirelessly for the material benefit of working people, the repetition of conservative populist frames over more than 40 years has had an effect. Conservative ideas have spread in the brains of conservative populists. The current Tea Party movement is an attempt to spread conservative populism further. Sarah Palin may not know history or economics, but she does know strict father morality and conservative populist frames. Frank Rich, in his February 14 New York Times column, denied David Broder's description of Palin as "perfect pitch populism" and called it "deceptive faux populism" and a "populist masquerade." What Rich is missing is that Palin has a perfect pitch for conservative populism - which is very different from liberal populism. What she can do is strengthen the conservative side of biconceptual undecided populists, helping to move them to conservative populists. She is dangerous that way. Rich, long one of my heroes, is a perfect-pitch liberal. He assumes that nurturant values (empathy, social and personal responsibility, making yourself and the world better) are the only objective values. I think they are right values, values that define democracy, but unfortunately far from the only values. Starting with those values, Rich correctly pointed out that Palin's views contradict liberal populism and that her conservative positions won't materially help the poor and middle class. All true, but ... that does not contradict conservative populism or conservatism in general. This is a grand liberal mistake. The highest value in the conservative moral system (see "Moral Politics," chapter nine) is the perpetuation and strengthening of the conservative moral system itself!! This is not liberal materialism. Liberals decry it as "ideology," and it is. But it is real; it has the structure of moral system, and it is physically part of the brains of both Washington conservatives and conservative populists. The conservative surge is not merely electoral. It is an idea surge. It is an attempt to spread conservatism via the spread of conservative populism. That is what the Tea Party movement is doing. False Reason and Real Reason: The Obama Mistake It was entirely predictable a year ago that the conservatives would hold firm against Obama's attempts at "bipartisanship" - finding occasional conservatives who were biconceptual, that is, shared some views acceptable to Obama on some issues, while keeping an overall liberal agenda. The conservatives are not fools. Because their highest value is protecting and extending the conservative moral system itself, giving Obama any victory at all would strengthen Obama and weaken the hold of their moral system. Of course, they were going to vote against every proposal and delay and filibuster as often as possible. Protecting and extending their worldview demands it. Obama has not understood this. We saw this when Obama attended the Republican caucus. He kept pointing out that they voted against proposals that Republicans had made and that he had incorporated, acting as if this were a contradiction. But that was to be expected, since a particular proposal that strengthens Obama and hence weakens their moral view violates their highest moral principle. Such conservative logic explains why conservatives in Congress first proposed a bipartisan committee to study the deficit, and then voted against it. That is why I don't expect much from the president's summit with Republicans on February 25. Why should they do anything to strengthen Obama's hand, when it would violate their highest moral principle, as well as weakening themselves electorally? If Obama thinks he can shame them in front of their voters, he is mistaken, again. Conservative voters think the same way they do. During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama used framing perfectly and articulated the progressive moral system (empathy, individual and social responsibility, making oneself and the world better) as well as it has ever been done. But he changed after the election. Obama moved from real reason, how people really think, to false reason, a traditional view coming out of the enlightenment and favored by all too many liberals. We now (finally!) come to the point of going through all those experiments in the cognitive and brain sciences. Here are the basic differences between real and false reason, and the ways in which all too many liberals, including Obama during the past year, are wed to false reason. Real reason is embodied in two ways. It is physical, in our brain circuitry. And it is based on our bodies as the function in the everyday world, using thought that arises from embodied metaphors. And it is mostly unconscious. False reason sees reason as fully conscious, as literal, disembodied, yet, somehow fitting the world directly, and working not via frame-based, metaphorical, narrative and emotional logic, but via the logic of logicians alone. Empathy is physical, arising from mirror neurons systems tied to emotional circuitry. Self-interest is real as well, and both play their roles in real reason. False reason is supposed to serve material self-interest alone. It's supposed to answer the question, "What's in it for me?," which President Obama assumed that all populists were asking. While Frank Luntz told conservatives to frame health care in terms of the moral concepts of freedom (a "government takeover") and life ("death panels"), Obama was talking about policy minutia that could not be understood by most people. Real reason is inexplicably tied up with emotion; you cannot be rational without being emotional. False reason thinks that emotion is the enemy of reason, that it is unscrupulous to call on emotion. Yet, people with brain damage who cannot feel emotion cannot make rational decisions because they do not know what to want, since like and not like mean nothing. "Rational" decisions are based on a long history of emotional responses by oneself and others. Real reason requires emotion. Obama assumed that Republicans would act "rationally," where "rationality" was defined by false reason - on the logic of material self-interest. But conservatives understood that their electoral chances matched their highest moral principle, strengthening their moral system itself without compromise. It is a basic principle of false reason that every human being has the same reason governed by logic - and that if you just tell people the truth, they will reason to the right conclusion. The President kept saying, throughout Tea Party summer, that he would just keep telling the truth about policy details that most people could not make moral sense of. And so he did, to the detriment of all of us. All politics is moral. Political leaders all make proposals they say are "right." No one proposes a policy that they say is wrong. But there are two opposing moral systems at work in America. What moral system you are using governs how you will see the world and reason about politics. That is the lesson of the cognitive science behind "Moral Politics" and all the experiments since then. It is the lesson of all the research on embodied metaphor. Metaphorical thought is central to politics. Finally, there is the lesson of how language works in the brain. Every word is neurally connected to a neural circuit characterizing a frame, which, in turn, is part of a system of frames linked to a moral system. In political discourse, words activate frames, which, in turn, activate moral systems. This mechanism is not conscious. It is automatic, and it is acquired through repetition. As the language of conservative morality is repeated, frames are activated repeatedly that, in turn, activate and strengthen the conservative system of thought - unconsciously and automatically. Thus, conservative talk radio and the national conservative messaging system are powerful unconscious forces. They work via principles of real reason. But many liberals, assuming a false view of reason, think that such a messaging system for ideas they believe in would be illegitimate - doing the things that the conservatives do that they consider underhanded. Appealing honestly to the way people really think is seen as emotional and, hence, irrational and immoral. Liberals, clinging to false reason, simply resist paying attention to real reason. Take Paul Krugman, one of my heroes, whose economic sense I find impeccable. Here is a quote from a recent column: Republicans who hate Medicare, tried to slash Medicare in the past, and still aim to dismantle the program over time, have been scoring political points by denouncing proposals for modest cost savings - savings that are substantially smaller than the spending cuts buried in their own proposals. He is following traditional liberal logic, and pointing out a literal contradiction: they denounce "cuts in Medicare," while wanting to eliminate Medicare and have proposed bigger cuts themselves. But, from the perspective of real reason as conservatives use it, there is no contradiction. The highest conservative value is preserving and empowering their moral system itself. Medicare is anathema to their moral system - a fundamental insult. It violates free market principles and gives people things they haven't all earned. It is a system where some people are paying - God forbid! - for the medical care of others. For them, Medicare itself is immoral on a grand scale, a fundamental moral issue far more important than any minor proposal for "modest cost savings." I'm sorry to report it, but that is how conservatives are making use of real reason, and exploiting the fact that so many liberals think it's contradictory. Indeed, one of the major findings of real reason is that negating a frame activates that frame in the brain and reinforces it - like Nixon saying that he was not a crook. Dan Pfeiffer, writing on the White House blog, posted an article called "Still not a 'Government Takeover'," which activates the conservative idea of a government takeover and hence reinforces the idea. Every time a liberal goes over a conservative proposal giving evidence negating conservative ideas one by one, he or she is activating the conservative ideas in the brains of his audience. The proper response is to start with your own ideas, framed to fit what you really believe. Facts matter. But they have to be framed properly and their moral significance must be made manifest. That is what we learn from real reason. The New York Times is home to a lot of traditional reason, often based on false principles of how people think. That is why the reporting of those experiments brightened my day. Perhaps the best way to The New York Times' mind is through the science of mind. Kudos once more to the Times' science reporting on those experiments. From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Tue Feb 23 21:46:15 2010 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? In-Reply-To: <6353c691002220825v68ce9ad1u632a4ecf9b7c4ea4@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c691002220825v68ce9ad1u632a4ecf9b7c4ea4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <953998.13573.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> The issue is serious. In a civil society, Govt's targetting intellectuls for their academic pursuit is a kind of repression whose scale has not been thence since the internal emergency. Anyways, I guess these people are no more terrorists than people who suuply millitants arms, or other agencies of govt which prepare such reports. Ok, then are the arrested maoists, irrespective of their perturbing deeds not terrorists, but 'Political Prisoners'?  A tautalogical question to the policy framers as well as those who follow for mixing general ideology with specific actions, such as quoting Jihad so commonly............ ________________________________ From: Aditya Raj Kaul To: sarai list Sent: Mon, 22 February, 2010 9:55:10 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? *3 civil rights activists in Kobad chargesheet* *Staff Reporter | New Delhi* *PTI and Pioneer* *Link - http://www.dailypioneer.com/237681/3-civil-rights-activists-in-Kobad-chargesheet.html * Three civil rights activists were named as Naxal sympathisers in a chargesheet filed by the police against top Maoist leader Kobad Ghandy, prompting a sharp reaction from the organisations they belong to. The names of former PUDR secretary Gautam Naulakha, Committee for the Release of Political Prisoners spokesperson Rona Wilson, and Revolutionary Democratic Front (RDF) deputy secretary GN Saibaba are also named in the chargesheet for meeting Ghandy ahead and after his arrest in Delhi. Police had on Friday filed a chargesheet running into over 800 pages against Ghandy, a Politburo member of the banned CPI (Maoist) arrested in September last year from Delhi, in which the names of civil rights activists and some organisations appeared. People's Union of Democratic Rights (PUDR), People's Union of Civil Liberties (PUCL) and Association for Protection of Democratic Rights (APDR) are the organisations which were mentioned in the chargesheet accusing them of helping Maoists. The chargesheet said that Maoists are active among students and have established front organisations other than forming a trade union which is active in Okhla Industrial Area. Naulakha, Wilson and Saibaba termed their being named in the chargesheet as "laughable, utter rubbish, ridiculous" and an attempt to "muzzle dissident voices in a democracy". Saibaba is accused of having a role in passing of a resolution of CPI (Maoist) on its tactical counter strategy and sheltering top Naxal leaders in the national Capital. He claimed that the chargesheet was completely fabricated. "This is height of imagination. This is to implicate me. I move on a wheelchair. How can I participate in a military action from Delhi and that too, sitting on a wheelchair?" he said claiming that he has never met Ghandy. The chargesheet has also said Naulakha met Ghandy ahead of his arrest in Delhi, an allegation denied by the civil rights activist. "I have met Ghandy in jail after his arrest. But it is rubbish to say that I have met him before. As a civil rights activists, I would have liked to meet Ghandy before he was arrested," Dhaulaka has said to PTI. He said the naming of organisations and civil rights activists in the chargesheet was "ridiculous" and an attempt to silence voices against Government. Wilson said it was a "standard strategy" to "brow-beat" all kinds of voices which disagree with the Government, which wants to "profile people and organisations" taking up the cause of rights violation as anti-national. "I have met Ghandy in the jail. It is on record. Such kinds of things are meant to stigmatise people's protest," he said. A senior police official said the names were included in the chargesheet after investigations. In the chargesheet, police claimed that Ghandy had close links with Maoists in Nepal. The investigators also claimed Ghandy had confessed before Andhra Pradesh police of being involved in at least two Naxal attacks in Jharkhand in December 2006 and April 2007. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 23 23:28:29 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:28:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: <558887.59070.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <000801cab486$7343f010$59cbd030$@in> <558887.59070.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001cab4b1$cec97240$6c5c56c0$@in> Dear Kshemendra, You are right, that due to our constitution compulsion to remove article 370 is remote possibility and that way it was framed earlier reason god knows. Perhaps our pseudo-secular society will never give such an opportunity. There is a remote possibility of it, since 2/3 majority for any political party is not possible and of course for BJP also not at all, so in my opinion, let even India become super power than also Kashmir position will not improve and cannot amalgamated in India and the path of its development also will have restrictions. My only intention to raise point of article 370 is for development of Kashmir only and not at all politics. If Kashmiri people will understand this will definitely for their benefit only. Let us hope and wait for that day that the land of heaven becomes practically real land of heaven for the people of Kashmir. If they understand this and come out from the separatists trap will benefit them. Thanks Bipin From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:25 PM To: Bipin Cc: sarai-list Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Dear Bipin It is not possible to abolish Art 370 so I would suggest that you do not factor in any such possibility if you are looking at how to improve the situation in Kashmir. Art370 is so deeply embedded in the Constitution of India (COI) that it has been humourously opined that it is possible to amend every Article of COI other than Art 370. There is always the possibilty of: - Declaring an Emergency and suspending Art 370 during the pendancy of Emergency. Such an Emergency would have to declared in all of India and not just J&K because Art370 is a ruling provision in COI and reflected secondarily in the Constitution of J&K. Such a suspension would in any case be a temporary suspension and post lifting of Emergency any steps of Constitutional Import have to be ratified by due processes as specified in COI. Which brings you back to square one. - The other possibility is one through playing havoc with the COI by Unconstitutional Amendments to various other Articles. For this to happen in connection with Art370, it would require a political party like BJP having a two-thirds majority in both houses of the Parliament and similar Legislative Control in at least 50 percent of the States. I do not see that happening in my lifetime. Kshmendra --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Bipin wrote: From: Bipin Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" Cc: "sarai-list" Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 6:18 PM Dear Kshemendra, Abolition of article 370 is my point of view (and so many my fellow Indians also) will help Kashmir bring back in the normal situation and get amalgamated with India. I don't want to look into the Kashmir history, but looking to the future of it. Whatever happened in the history, good or bad is past, but I am looking for the probable prosperity in the future. And not only valley but whole Jammu & Kashmir even including POK since one day it will be with India only. So, I am looking to broader prospect and not at all restricting to valley. Since, problem created in valley by so called separatists only and they Are responsible for present situation and huge unemployment. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net ] On Behalf Of Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:23 PM To: Sonia Jabbar; sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Dear Sonia Bipin seems to have inadvertently posted into the Reader List your correspondence with him. The two of you were discussing Abolition of Article 370 / Industrial Policies / Business and Employment Opportunities. Very pertinent observations by you. I found interesting/intriguing the following comment by you: """"" the fact that Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade route """""" I wonder what you meant by "HUB". The two of you were discussing Indian Controlled Kashmir. Please do inform when it was that Kashmir was a "hub" on the the Central Asia Trade Route. There must be credible references testifying to that. Never too late to learn. While asking my question I have kept in mind both the routing of the "Silk Road" as well as that of the "Mughal Road" (and it's purpose). Repeating myself, Indian Controlled Kashmir is under reference and especially the Valley Kshmendra _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 08:03:14 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:03:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: <000001cab4b1$cec97240$6c5c56c0$@in> Message-ID: Linking development to the availability of land for industrial use is one of the most bizarre economic arguments I have heard. By this yardstick every other state of India should have been superbly developed and we would not be hosting a third of the world's poor. So any idea why, where land is freely available to industry, states like Madhya Pradesh have the lowest growth rates? What about UP, Bihar and Rajasthan? If tomorrow land is offered gratis to industrialists in the middle of the Thar desert to set up factories, do you seriously think you would have an industrial revolution? Many Indians have questions about Article 370, some valid, some not so valid. Until quite recently you weren't allowed to buy land in Himachal but no one made a fuss about that. There are restrictions in place even now as to how much one can buy and for what use. There are other parts of India where there are similar restrictions: for example in the Andaman & Nicobar islands, where some islands are completely off bounds even to tourists let alone developers and industrialists. It would be foolish to argue that these should be opened up for the 'benefit' and well-being of its inhabitants. 23% of India's land is under forests and under the Forest Act you cannot buy this land and start a farm or build a house or do anything with it. Would you argue that this should be made available for 'development'? Even if you abolished Article 370 and invited industrialists to J&K they would not come for a very simple reason: you cannot place your business in a disturbed area. Peace and political stability are inextricably linked to sustainable development. And then the reason I referred to J&K's traditional trade routes is that if & when there is peace and if & when these routes re-open these would be a far greater incentive to business than the simple offer of owning land in perpetuity. If I made razor blades or soap, for example, why would I set up shop in J&K with its limited market and take on the added headache and cost of transporting raw materials all the way there when my markets are in densely populated Delhi and UP? I would only do that if I had access to new markets in N. Pakistan and the Xianjiang region. > From: Bipin > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:28:29 +0530 > To: 'Kshmendra Kaul' > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When > was that? > > Dear Kshemendra, You are right, that due to our constitution compulsion to > remove article 370 is remote possibility and that way it was framed earlier > reason god knows. Perhaps our pseudo-secular society will never give such an > opportunity. There is a remote possibility of it, since 2/3 majority for any > political party is not possible and of course for BJP also not at all, so in > my opinion, let even India become super power than also Kashmir position > will not improve and cannot amalgamated in India and the path of its > development also will have restrictions. My only intention to raise point > of article 370 is for development of Kashmir only and not at all politics. If > Kashmiri people will understand this will definitely for their benefit only. > Let us hope and wait for that day that the land of heaven becomes practically > real land of heaven for the people of Kashmir. If they understand this and > come out from the separatists trap will benefit them. Thanks Bipin > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, > February 23, 2010 7:25 PM To: Bipin Cc: sarai-list Subject: RE: [Reader-list] > Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Dear Bipin > It is not possible to abolish Art 370 so I would suggest that you do > not factor in any such possibility if you are looking at how to improve > the situation in Kashmir. Art370 is so deeply embedded in the Constitution > of India (COI) that it has been humourously opined that it is possible to > amend every Article of COI other than Art 370. There is always the > possibilty of: - Declaring an Emergency and suspending Art 370 during the > pendancy of Emergency. Such an Emergency would have to declared in all of > India and not just J&K because Art370 is a ruling provision in COI and > reflected secondarily in the Constitution of J&K. Such a suspension would > in any case be a temporary suspension and post lifting of Emergency any steps > of Constitutional Import have to be ratified by due processes as specified in > COI. Which brings you back to square one. - The other possibility is one > through playing havoc with the COI by Unconstitutional Amendments to various > other Articles. For this to happen in connection with Art370, it would > require a political party like BJP having a two-thirds majority in both houses > of the Parliament and similar Legislative Control in at least 50 percent of > the States. I do not see that happening in my lifetime. > Kshmendra --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Bipin wrote: From: > Bipin Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central > Asia Trade Route. When was that? To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" > Cc: "sarai-list" Date: > Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 6:18 PM Dear Kshemendra, Abolition of article > 370 is my point of view (and so many my fellow Indians also) will help Kashmir > bring back in the normal situation and get amalgamated with India. I don't > want to look into the Kashmir history, but looking to the future of it. > Whatever happened in the history, good or bad is past, but I am looking for > the probable prosperity in the future. And not only valley but whole Jammu & > Kashmir even including POK since one day it will be with India only. So, I am > looking to broader prospect and not at all restricting to valley. Since, > problem created in valley by so called separatists only and they > Are responsible for present situation and huge unemployment. > Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net ader-list-bounces at sarai.net> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list-bounces at sarai.net> ] On Behalf > Of Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:23 PM To: Sonia Jabbar; > sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. > When was that? Dear Sonia Bipin seems to have inadvertently posted into the > Reader List your correspondence with him. The two of you were discussing > Abolition of Article 370 / Industrial Policies / Business and Employment > Opportunities. Very pertinent observations by you. I found > interesting/intriguing the following comment by you: """"" the fact that > Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade > route """""" I wonder what you meant by "HUB". The two of you were > discussing Indian Controlled Kashmir. Please do inform when it was that > Kashmir was a "hub" on the the Central Asia Trade Route. There must be > credible references testifying to that. Never too late to learn. While asking > my question I have kept in mind both the routing of the "Silk Road" as well as > that of the "Mughal Road" (and it's purpose). Repeating myself, Indian > Controlled Kashmir is under reference and especially the Valley Kshmendra > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an > email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net ader-list-request at sarai.net> with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ > Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database > 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. http://www.eset.com > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rohitrellan at aol.in Wed Feb 24 11:24:08 2010 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Talk on Bombay Cinema, SAA, JNU In-Reply-To: References: <5dedc0c51002232055r152f2671i55cbb1b69adfa0ee@mail.gmail.com> <5a4334631002232121m481438eevc4b0bde0888ab6d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CC832CEA11D6F6-97A0-208D@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> The School of Arts and Aesthetics Jawaharlal Nehru University Presents Territorial Realism: Film Spectatorship, Rights and a Very Bombay History A Talk by Ashish Rajadhyaksha Senior Fellow, Centre for the Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore Author of Indian Cinema in the Time of Celluloid:From Bollywood to the Emergency At The School of Arts and Aesthetics Auditorium 25th February, Thursday 2010 5 pm        Tea will be served from 4.30 pm onwards -- Ranjani Mazumdar Associate Professor Cinema Studies School of Arts and Aesthetics Jawaharlal Nehru University New Delhi 110067 http://www.jnu.ac.in/SAA/ From pkray11 at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 12:40:23 2010 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (Prakash K Ray) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:40:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? Message-ID: <98f331e01002232310m7f83d292oe0cce676eabb3d75@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Certainly not. The three persons mentioned in the FIR are more or less Monks, not Maoists. They came to know about Kabad Ghandhy through newspapers, and they read about Maoists in the newspapers kept at the neighborhood barber shop. RDF has nothing to do with the Maoist Party. It is not its Front organization. It is only involved in encouraging people to use less plastic and less tobacco. As far as Committee for the Release of Political Prisoner is concerned, it is only involved in the campaign to release the pickpockets who are forced to pickpocket due to the unprecedented rise in prices. So they fall under category of political prisoners. Gautam is a baul singer. Down with the false charges. Happy Holi. Regards, PKR From ravikant at sarai.net Wed Feb 24 12:40:25 2010 From: ravikant at sarai.net (ravikant) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:40:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ashish Rajadhyaksha at JNU tomorrow Message-ID: <4B84D0E1.8050208@sarai.net> *The School of Arts and Aesthetics* *Jawaharlal** Nehru University* *Presents * */Territorial Realism: Film Spectatorship, Rights and a Very Bombay History/* *A Talk by * *Ashish Rajadhyaksha* *Senior Fellow, Centre for the Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore* *Author of* */_Indian Cinema in the Time of Celluloid:From Bollywood to the Emergency_/* *At* *The School of Arts and Aesthetics _Auditorium _* *25^th February, Thursday 2010 * *5 pm* * **Tea will be served from 4.30 pm onwards* From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 13:51:38 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:51:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? In-Reply-To: <98f331e01002232310m7f83d292oe0cce676eabb3d75@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e01002232310m7f83d292oe0cce676eabb3d75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d01002240021n16b91922ke26cdc0a5f30a47b@mail.gmail.com> a survey of Maoists backed with facts from Ministry of Home Affairs written by Navlakha himself: http://www.internationalcentregoa.com/southasia/maoists%20in%20india.pdf -anupam On 2/24/10, Prakash K Ray wrote: > Hi, > > Certainly not. The three persons mentioned in the FIR are more or less > Monks, not Maoists. They came to know about Kabad Ghandhy through > newspapers, and they read about Maoists in the newspapers kept at the > neighborhood barber shop. RDF has nothing to do with the Maoist Party. It is > not its Front organization. It is only involved in encouraging people to use > less plastic and less tobacco. As far as Committee for the Release of > Political Prisoner is concerned, it is only involved in the campaign to > release the pickpockets who are forced to pickpocket due to the > unprecedented rise in prices. So they fall under category of political > prisoners. > > Gautam is a baul singer. > > Down with the false charges. > Happy Holi. > > Regards, > PKR > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From iram.ghufran at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 11:15:13 2010 From: iram.ghufran at gmail.com (iram ghufran) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:15:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] talk@SAA JNU: by Ashish Rajadhyaksha Message-ID: <6c6fbec51002232145l44fce421vf399f31c865f104d@mail.gmail.com> The School of Arts and Aesthetics Jawaharlal Nehru University Presents Territorial Realism: Film Spectatorship, Rights and a Very Bombay History A Talk by Ashish Rajadhyaksha Senior Fellow, Centre for the Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore Author of Indian Cinema in the Time of Celluloid:From Bollywood to the Emergency At The School of Arts and Aesthetics Auditorium 25th February, Thursday 2010 5pm Tea will be served from 4.30 pm onwards -- Iram Ghufran Sarai Media Lab Sarai/ CSDS 29 Rajpur Road Delhi 110057 http://citystudio.ning.com/profile/IramGhufran From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Wed Feb 24 16:25:43 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:55:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Visual Culture Conference, Feb 25-27, Hyderabad Message-ID: <954529.9807.qm@web54403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> You can read the schedule and other details here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/karmayog-hyd/message/1567 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 24 17:01:34 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 03:31:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Irrational Conservative: Cognitive lessons from Voters In-Reply-To: <4783972.1266938528588.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <397205.21292.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks for posting this.   K --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Paul D. Miller wrote: From: Paul D. Miller Subject: [Reader-list] The Irrational Conservative: Cognitive lessons from Voters To: "sarai" Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:52 PM Interesting article applying cognitive science to how voters respond to political "brands" - as applied industrial psychology. Paul http://www.truthout.org/obama-tea-parties-and-battle-our-brains57089 Obama, Tea Parties and the Battle for Our Brains Monday 22 February 2010 by: George Lakoff, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed photo (Image: Jared Rodriguez / t r u t h o u t; Adapted: Jeff Kubina, zen, ajagendorf25) Over the past couple of weeks, The New York Times has been reporting on results from the cognitive and brain sciences that confirm past research in those fields partly by me and partly by my community of colleagues. What makes this of general, not personal, interest is that the scientific results are especially important for understanding what has been going wrong for the Obama administration and for liberals generally, and what has been going right for conservatives. I'm going to start out with some science, and get on to the politics after brief discussions of three important New York Times' articles and what they mean scientifically. It's always satisfying for a scientist to see his or her predictions proved right experimentally (which happens often), and actually discussed in the press (which happens rarely). As a cognitive scientist and linguist, it's been a good couple of weeks for me and my colleagues, especially in The New York Times. Experiments are hard to do, and I celebrate all the experimenters cited. Experiments are also hard to report on, and I praise the journalists at the Times for a fine job. Metaphor and Embodiment Back in 1980, Mark Johnson and I, in "Metaphors We Live By", demonstrated the existence of metaphorical thought and argued that metaphor and other aspects of mind were embodied. That book, and our 1987 books, my "Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things" and Johnson's "The Body in the Mind," helped to start a cottage industry in the study of embodied cognition. The experimental results confirming our theories of embodied cognition have been coming in regularly, especially in the area of metaphorical thought. Natalie Angier, on February 1,  summarized some of the recent research very clearly: * A University of Amsterdam study showed that subjects thinking about the future leaned forward, while those thinking about the past leaned backward. This was predicted by the 1980 analysis of common European metaphors in which the future is ahead  and the past is behind. This is not just a matter of language, but of thought, as Johnson and I showed.         * At Yale, researchers found that subjects holding warm coffee in advance were more likely to evaluate an imaginary individual as warm and friendly than those holding cold coffee. This is predicted by the conceptual metaphor that affection is warmth, as in, She gave me a warm greeting.         * At the University of Toronto, subjects were asked to remember a time when they were either socially accepted or socially snubbed. Those with warm memories of acceptance judged the room to be five degrees warmer on the average than those who remembered being coldly snubbed.         * Subjects asked to think about a moral transgression like adultery or cheating on a test were more likely to request an antiseptic cloth after the experiment than those who had thought about good deeds. The well-known conceptual metaphor morality is purity predicts this behavior.         * Students told that that a particular book was important judged it to be physically heavier than a book that they were told was unimportant. The conceptual metaphor is important is heavy.         * In a parallel study with heavy versus light clipboards, those with the heavy clipboards were more likely like to judge currency to be more valuable and their opinions and their leaders more important.         * And in doing arithmetic, students who used their hands to group numbers together had an easier time doing problems that required conceptual grouping. This is predicted by the analysis of mathematics in "Where Mathematics Comes From" by myself and Rafael Núñez, where we show how mathematics from the simple to the advanced is based on embodied metaphorical cognition. These results don't happen by magic. How can these results be explained? Johnson's and my 1999 book, "Philosophy in the Flesh," incorporated a neural theory of how embodied metaphorical thought works. What a child is regularly held affectionately by its parents, two distinct brain areas are activated simultaneously - one for temperature and one for affection. The synapses in both areas are strengthened and activation spreads along existing pathways until the shortest pathway between the areas is found and a circuit is formed. That circuit is the neural realization of what is called a "primary metaphor" that is embodied. Hundreds of such cases are formed unconsciously and automatically in childhood. My Berkeley colleague, Srini Narayanan, has shown what computational properties such circuits must have. In still unpublished work, he has shown that the relative timing of first spikes across a synapse predicts the directionality of elementary metaphors in all known cases. The very idea that such low-level phenomena at the level of neurons can result in the vast range of metaphorical thought is truly remarkable. A crucial part of the story of embodied cognition comes from the neuroscience of the 1990s, which showed that the same brain regions used in actually moving and perceiving are used in imagining and remembering moving and perceiving. These results led Jerome Feldman to the crucial idea that meaningful thought expressible in language is mental simulation that uses the neural structures of the sensory-motor system to imagine what is embodied, usually below the level of consciousness. These are experimental findings and theories based on considerable evidence. Taken together, they explain the results of the experiments: Primary metaphorical thought arises when a neural circuit is formed linking two brain areas activated when experiences occur together repeatedly. Typically, one of the experiences is physical. In each experiment, each subject has the physical experience activating one of the brain regions and another experience (e.g., emotional or temporal) activating the other brain region for the given metaphor. The activation of both regions activates the metaphorical link. Thus, if the metaphor is future is ahead and past is behind, thinking about the future will activate the brain region for moving forward. If the metaphor is affection is warmth, holding warm coffee will activate the brain region for experiencing affection. Angier did not seek out the theoretical studies that allow these explanations - and led to the performance of the experiments in the first place. That's too much to ask of a New York Times article. But it was nice to see some of the relevant experiments reported on in The New York Times, even if the explanations were left out. These cases don't have any direct political implications in themselves, but they are indirectly important, as we shall see. Words and Polls The past week in The New York Times was also pretty good for me with respect to predictions. There was a CBS/New York Times poll that showed support for ending "don't ask, don't tell" varied considerably depending on whether "homosexuals" or "gay men and lesbians" was used in the question. "Gay men and lesbians" got a lot more support - in the ball park of 15 percent more, which is a HUGE difference on a poll. Those of you who've read my "Don't Think of an Elephant!" and "The Political Mind" will be familiar with the basic results of frame semantics, developed by my Berkeley colleague Charles Fillmore and others within the cognitive and brain sciences. The first basic result: The meaning of every word is characterized in terms of a brain circuit called a "frame." Frames are often characterized in terms of the usual apparatus of mental life: metaphors, images, cultural narratives - and neural links to the emotion centers of the brain. The narrow, literal meaning of a word is only one aspect of its frame-semantic meaning. The second basic result is that this is mostly unconscious, like 98 percent of human thought. On the inherent link between semantic and emotion, see my discussion in "The Political Mind," (chapter one) and the excellent books by Antonio Damasio ("Descartes' Error") and Drew Westen ("The Political Brain"). "Homosexual" is simply defined via a different frame than "gay men and lesbians." Professor Geoffrey Stone of the University of Chicago, writing in the Huffington Post on February 13, described the difference:     "Homosexual" conjures up dark visions of filthy bodily acts that arouse deeply-rooted feelings of disgust and ancient fears of Sodom and Gomorrah and hell and damnation. "Gay men and lesbians," on the other hand, increasingly reminds us of people we know - sons and daughters, cousins and classmates, nieces and nephews, coworkers and neighbors. In short, there is a big difference in meaning - the framing difference between the thought of gay sex and the idea of the civil rights of people in your community. The consequences are political, as Professor Stone observed:     When we hear religious leaders or politicians referring to "homosexuals in the military," "homosexual marriage," or "special rights for homosexuals," we must recognize what they are doing. Especially for the 15 percent of Americans who react so viscerally to the term "homosexual," they are trying to chew their way into the worst parts of our psyches in order to manipulate our beliefs and values and make us worse people than we really are. I've been writing for years about how effective the right wing has been at framing, and how progressives often use right-wing language, even in polls. I have had numerous discussions with well-known pollsters who did not get the point and could not distinguish commonplace language from commonplace language that activated right-wing frames. The cognitive science matters here. The CBS/New York Times poll results were to be expected given our current understanding of how words get their meaning by being neurally linked to frame-circuits. Blinks, Worms and Spankers         * Nick Kristof, in his February 14 column, discussed three experiments distinguishing conservatives from liberals:         * In one experiment, the strength of blink reflexes to unexpected noises was measured and correlated with degrees of reactions to external threats. Conservatives reacted considerably more strongly than liberals.         *  Another experiment was based on the fact that disgust reactions create glandular secretions that change skin conductance. Subjects were shown disgusting images (like some eating a handful of worms). Liberals reacted mildly, but conservative reactions went off the charts.         * A third study showed a strong correlation between attitudes toward spanking and voting patterns: spanking states tend to go Republican. The experimenters correlated spanking preferences with what they called "cognitive styles." As Kristof reported it, "Spankers tend to see the world in stark, black-and-white terms, perceive the social order as vulnerable and under attack, tend to make strong distinctions between 'us' and 'them,' and emphasize order and muscular responses to threats. Parents favoring timeouts feel more comfortable with ambiguities, sense less threat, embrace minority groups - and are less prone to disgust when they see a man eating worms."         * All three results follow from a cognitive science study called "Moral Politics," which I published in 1996 and was reprinted in 2002. There, I observed that conservatives and liberals had opposite moral worldviews structured by metaphor around two profoundly different models of the ideal family: a strict father family for conservatives and a nurturant parent family for liberals. In the ideal strict father family, the world is seen as a dangerous place and the father functions as protector from "others" and the parent who teaches children absolute right from wrong by punishing them physically (painful spanking or worse) when they do wrong. The father is the ultimate authority; children are to obey, and immoral practices are seen as disgusting. Ideal liberal families are based on nurturance, which breaks down into empathy, responsibility - for both oneself and others, and excellence: doing as well as one can to make oneself better and one's family and community better. Parents are to practice these things and children are to learn them by example. Because our first experience with being governed in is our families, we all learn a basic metaphor: A governing institution is a family, where the governing institution can be a church, a school, a team or a nation. The nation-as-family version gives us the idea of founding fathers, Mother India and Mother Russia, the Fatherland, homeland security etc. Apply these monolithically to our politics and you get extreme conservative and progressive moral systems, defining what is right and wrong to each side. There is no moral system of the moderate or the middle. Because of a neural phenomenon called "mutual inhibition," two opposing moral systems can live in brain circuits that inhibit each other and are active in different contexts. For a nonpolitical example, consider Saturday night and Sunday morning moral systems, which coexist in the brains of many Americans. The same is true of "moderates," who are conservative on some issues and progressive on others, though there may be variations from person to person. Kristof doesn't mention "Moral Politics," though he got a copy at a Democratic Senate retreat in 2003, at which we both spoke. If "Moral Politics" is still on his bookshelf, I suggest he take a look. I also recommend it to anyone who wants to understand the difference between conservative and progressive moral systems. Conservative Populism and Tea Partiers After the Goldwater defeat of 1964, conservatism was a dirty word and most Americans wanted to be liberals, especially working people who were highly unionized. Lee Atwater and colleagues, working for the 1968 Nixon campaign, had a problem: How to get a significant number of working people to become conservative enough to vote for Nixon. They intuited what I have since called "biconceptualism" (see "The Political Mind") - the fact that many Americans have both conservative and progressive views, but in different contexts and on different issues. Mutual inhibition in brain circuitry means the strengthening of one weakens the other. They found a way to both strengthen conservative views and weaken liberal views, creating a conservative populism. Here's how they did it. They realized that by the late '60s many working people were disturbed by the antiwar demonstrations; so Nixon ran on anti-communism. They noticed that many working men were upset by radical feminists; so they pushed traditional family values. And they realized that, after the civil rights legislation, many working men, especially in the South, were threatened by blacks. So, they ran Nixon on law and order. At the same time, they created the concept of "the liberal elite" - the tax-and-spend liberals, the liberal media, the Hollywood liberals, the limousine liberals and so on. They created language for all these ideas and have been repeating it ever since. Even though liberals have worked tirelessly for the material benefit of working people, the repetition of conservative populist frames over more than 40 years has had an effect. Conservative ideas have spread in the brains of conservative populists. The current Tea Party movement is an attempt to spread conservative populism further. Sarah Palin may not know history or economics, but she does know strict father morality and conservative populist frames. Frank Rich, in his February 14 New York Times column, denied David Broder's description of Palin as "perfect pitch populism" and called it "deceptive faux populism" and a "populist masquerade." What Rich is missing is that Palin has a perfect pitch for conservative populism - which is very different from liberal populism. What she can do is strengthen the conservative side of biconceptual undecided populists, helping to move them to conservative populists. She is dangerous that way. Rich, long one of my heroes, is a perfect-pitch liberal. He assumes that nurturant values (empathy, social and personal responsibility, making yourself and the world better) are the only objective values. I think they are right values, values that define democracy, but unfortunately far from the only values. Starting with those values, Rich correctly pointed out that Palin's views contradict liberal populism and that her conservative positions won't materially help the poor and middle class. All true, but ... that does not contradict conservative populism or conservatism in general. This is a grand liberal mistake. The highest value in the conservative moral system (see "Moral Politics," chapter nine) is the perpetuation and strengthening of the conservative moral system itself!! This is not liberal materialism. Liberals decry it as "ideology," and it is. But it is real; it has the structure of moral system, and it is physically part of the brains of both Washington conservatives and conservative populists. The conservative surge is not merely electoral. It is an idea surge. It is an attempt to spread conservatism via the spread of conservative populism. That is what the Tea Party movement is doing. False Reason and Real Reason: The Obama Mistake It was entirely predictable a year ago that the conservatives would hold firm against Obama's attempts at "bipartisanship" - finding occasional conservatives who were biconceptual, that is, shared some views acceptable to Obama on some issues, while keeping an overall liberal agenda. The conservatives are not fools. Because their highest value is protecting and extending the conservative moral system itself, giving Obama any victory at all would strengthen Obama and weaken the hold of their moral system. Of course, they were going to vote against every proposal and delay and filibuster as often as possible. Protecting and extending their worldview demands it. Obama has not understood this. We saw this when Obama attended the Republican caucus. He kept pointing out that they voted against proposals that Republicans had made and that he had incorporated, acting as if this were a contradiction. But that was to be expected, since a particular proposal that strengthens Obama and hence weakens their moral view violates their highest moral principle. Such conservative logic explains why conservatives in Congress first proposed a bipartisan committee to study the deficit, and then voted against it. That is why I don't expect much from the president's summit with Republicans on February 25. Why should they do anything to strengthen Obama's hand, when it would violate their highest moral principle, as well as weakening themselves electorally? If Obama thinks he can shame them in front of their voters, he is mistaken, again. Conservative voters think the same way they do. During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama used framing perfectly and articulated the progressive moral system (empathy, individual and social responsibility, making oneself and the world better) as well as it has ever been done. But he changed after the election. Obama moved from real reason, how people really think, to false reason, a traditional view coming out of the enlightenment and favored by all too many liberals. We now (finally!) come to the point of going through all those experiments in the cognitive and brain sciences. Here are the basic differences between real and false reason, and the ways in which all too many liberals, including Obama during the past year, are wed to false reason. Real reason is embodied in two ways. It is physical, in our brain circuitry. And it is based on our bodies as the function in the everyday world, using thought that arises from embodied metaphors. And it is mostly unconscious. False reason sees reason as fully conscious, as literal, disembodied, yet, somehow fitting the world directly, and working not via frame-based, metaphorical, narrative and emotional logic, but via the logic of logicians alone. Empathy is physical, arising from mirror neurons systems tied to emotional circuitry. Self-interest is real as well, and both play their roles in real reason. False reason is supposed to serve material self-interest alone. It's supposed to answer the question, "What's in it for me?," which President Obama assumed that all populists were asking. While Frank Luntz told conservatives to frame health care in terms of the moral concepts of freedom (a "government takeover") and life ("death panels"), Obama was talking about policy minutia that could not be understood by most people. Real reason is inexplicably tied up with emotion; you cannot be rational without being emotional. False reason thinks that emotion is the enemy of reason, that it is unscrupulous to call on emotion. Yet, people with brain damage who cannot feel emotion cannot make rational decisions because they do not know what to want, since like and not like mean nothing. "Rational" decisions are based on a long history of emotional responses by oneself and others. Real reason requires emotion. Obama assumed that Republicans would act "rationally," where "rationality" was defined by false reason - on the logic of material self-interest. But conservatives understood that their electoral chances matched their highest moral principle, strengthening their moral system itself without compromise. It is a basic principle of false reason that every human being has the same reason governed by logic - and that if you just tell people the truth, they will reason to the right conclusion. The President kept saying, throughout Tea Party summer, that he would just keep telling the truth about policy details that most people could not make moral sense of. And so he did, to the detriment of all of us. All politics is moral. Political leaders all make proposals they say are "right." No one proposes a policy that they say is wrong. But there are two opposing moral systems at work in America. What moral system you are using governs how you will see the world and reason about politics. That is the lesson of the cognitive science behind "Moral Politics" and all the experiments since then. It is the lesson of all the research on embodied metaphor. Metaphorical thought is central to politics. Finally, there is the lesson of how language works in the brain. Every word is neurally connected to a neural circuit characterizing a frame, which, in turn, is part of a system of frames linked to a moral system. In political discourse, words activate frames, which, in turn, activate moral systems. This mechanism is not conscious. It is automatic, and it is acquired through repetition. As the language of conservative morality is repeated, frames are activated repeatedly that, in turn, activate and strengthen the conservative system of thought - unconsciously and automatically. Thus, conservative talk radio and the national conservative messaging system are powerful unconscious forces. They work via principles of real reason. But many liberals, assuming a false view of reason, think that such a messaging system for ideas they believe in would be illegitimate - doing the things that the conservatives do that they consider underhanded. Appealing honestly to the way people really think is seen as emotional and, hence, irrational and immoral. Liberals, clinging to false reason, simply resist paying attention to real reason. Take Paul Krugman, one of my heroes, whose economic sense I find impeccable. Here is a quote from a recent column:     Republicans who hate Medicare, tried to slash Medicare in the past, and still aim to dismantle the program over time, have been scoring political points by denouncing proposals for modest cost savings - savings that are substantially smaller than the spending cuts buried in their own proposals. He is following traditional liberal logic, and pointing out a literal contradiction: they denounce "cuts in Medicare," while wanting to eliminate Medicare and have proposed bigger cuts themselves. But, from the perspective of real reason as conservatives use it, there is no contradiction. The highest conservative value is preserving and empowering their moral system itself. Medicare is anathema to their moral system - a fundamental insult. It violates free market principles and gives people things they haven't all earned. It is a system where some people are paying - God forbid! - for the medical care of others. For them, Medicare itself is immoral on a grand scale, a fundamental moral issue far more important than any minor proposal for "modest cost savings." I'm sorry to report it, but that is how conservatives are making use of real reason, and exploiting the fact that so many liberals think it's contradictory. Indeed, one of the major findings of real reason is that negating a frame activates that frame in the brain and reinforces it - like Nixon saying that he was not a crook. Dan Pfeiffer, writing on the White House blog, posted an article called "Still not a 'Government Takeover'," which activates the conservative idea of a government takeover and hence reinforces the idea. Every time a liberal goes over a conservative proposal giving evidence negating conservative ideas one by one, he or she is activating the conservative ideas in the brains of his audience. The proper response is to start with your own ideas, framed to fit what you really believe. Facts matter. But they have to be framed properly and their moral significance must be made manifest. That is what we learn from real reason. The New York Times is home to a lot of traditional reason, often based on false principles of how people think. That is why the reporting of those experiments brightened my day. Perhaps the best way to The New York Times' mind is through the science of mind. Kudos once more to the Times' science reporting on those experiments. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni_parekh at yahoo.com Wed Feb 24 19:58:40 2010 From: chandni_parekh at yahoo.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 06:28:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Job Vacancy for an Editor in Bombay Message-ID: <733297.72081.qm@web54410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Namit Agarwal Feb 24, 2010 Subject: Urgent opening for an Editor in Mumbai Samhita Social Ventures is looking for a dynamic Editor for its online initiative in Mumbai. If you know someone who has a passion for the social sector Please fwd this link http://tinyurl.com/y8nh3an From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Wed Feb 24 22:03:42 2010 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:33:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Giving Secularism its due - by Rajeev Bhargav Message-ID: <72937.84566.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.law.uvic.ca/demcon/victoria_colloquium/documents/WhatisSecularismforPreSeminarReading.pdf An excerpt below "The demolished Babri-Masjid not only brought into sharper focus the estranged relations between Hindus and Muslims in India today but also the larger issue of whether people belonging and deeply committed to different faiths can live together. Moreover, the demolition was widely believed by non-religious people as a frontal attack on the secular constitution of India. The ferocity with which militant Hindus attacked and challenged the constitution left many people wondering whether believers and non-believers could live together at all. It was earlier thought that the ideology of secularism enabled people with different faiths as well as believers and non-believers not merely to live together but to live together well. The demolition certainly put to rest any complacence in the possibility of secularism automatically solving the vexed problem of diverse people living together. The attack on secularism, the strongest yet in post-independent India was not entirely new, however. The BJP in its many earlier incarnations has challenged it persistently. Grievances against it have been frequently expressed by many other groups and intellectuals. Briefly, there are three objections to the doctrine and to the state guided by it. First, and most generally, that it is unsuited to Indian conditions by virtue of its profoundly Christian and therefore, western character. Secularism, it is argued, is a contentious creed with its own dogmas that is incompatible or at least sits uneasily with homespun, indigenous world-views. Second, that it is deeply insensitive to religious people. By forcing people to think of their religion as a matter of private preference, it uncouples the link between religion and community and deprives people of their sense of identity. Third, that a secular state pretends to be neutral but is partial either to the unbeliever or to the minority community. These critics of secularism claim that with the help of a series of legislative acts, the state has attempted to neutralize the communal identity of Hindus. While the Hindus have been compelled, so the argument goes, to view themselves primarily as non-religious individuals, the Muslims are sometimes permitted and often encouraged to frame their identity purely in terms of their religion. In sum, the secular state in India is far from neutral. While its official doctrine professes neutrality, it is both anti-religious and pro-Muslim. A vociferous section allegedly representing the entire Hindus claims that a Hindu society is saddled with an anti-Hindu state. I do not believe any of these claims to be true. But then in human affairs, sifting truth from falsehood, as we know all too well, is a delicate and complicated matter. Social facts are not exhausted by whatever people currently believe to be the case but nor do they stand completely apart from it. It is enough reason to take them seriously if these claims are not obviously false. But this admits that at least something can be said in their favor, that some arguments to substantiate these claims exist. Is this so? Are these arguments available? And if available, are they sound? I do not think that such arguments are to be readily found but I shall presume that they can be devised. As for how good they are, it is the burden of this paper to demonstrate that they are not. Unlike many other secularists, I do not dismiss these claims - a luxurious option which no longer remains, I am afraid- but I hope to show that they are not as sound as is widely believed. This is the primary intent of my paper: to save secularism from its critics and give what is due to it. My secondary purpose, as a political theorist, is to try to construct a theory of secularism, to develop arguments in favor of secularism that any secularist may use wherever this need arises. In the first part, therefore, I try to develop the outlines of such a theory. I claim that a proper theory of secularism must not only justify the separation of religion from politics but also offer a sketch of how the two must relate after separation. This I claim depends on the kind of separation we envisage. In developing such a theory, I distinguish its two principal forms, one which I call political (or politico-moral) secularism, and the other, ethical secularism. In the second part, I examine in detail the doctrine of political secularism. Political secularism, I claim, has two versions, one that excludes religion from politics and the other that advocates a principle of political neutrality. I examine and try to meet objections to both these versions. Finally, in the third part, I briefly discuss one version of ethical secularism and claim that under conditions of diversity, it remains a defensible ideal. Since overwhelming reasons in favor of political and ethical secularism exist, the case for secularism, I believe, is overdetermined." From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Feb 24 22:33:43 2010 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:33:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? In-Reply-To: <341380d01002240021n16b91922ke26cdc0a5f30a47b@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e01002232310m7f83d292oe0cce676eabb3d75@mail.gmail.com> <341380d01002240021n16b91922ke26cdc0a5f30a47b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <520507.15451.qm@web94716.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: reader-list-request at sarai.net Sent: Wed, 24 February, 2010 10:29:35 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? Glad to know that we recognise these people were a sore to the governments eyes, specially when one talks about displacement, mass violence, and other things which the government tries to have monopoly over . . . . . . . And they were working for and releasing scholars like them who tried to manage the violence by taking it to the democratic front. Raid any of these houses and tell me how many rocket launchers, or plans of implanting bombs you find. Then how can we call them terrorists. Police had the licence to utmost brutality with or with government order, is a political servant, and yet policemen are not a member of political force, yeah technically they are civilians. Unfortunately I find Maoist has become a new political weapon to charge non-muslims in India. Instaed of targetting violence mongers who blurt out non-sense and imagined incidents for political power at rallies, target intellectuals. These people were basically shamming the government, and for that release of people like Binayak Sen they irked the Government enough to be pin-pointed and targetted.  NO, Fidel Castro also jailed poets, only he was more humane, and he never called them terrorists. I am sad that of late the political system has driven (and some parties, off course enabled) maoists to fetch rocket launchers (from Indian Army or China?).  Acting without thinking shall never solve the problem, so what good shall arresting instead of consulting individuals do? I am as well irked by the problem of mis-directed violence, and  displacement due to maoists, but for a change once Crpf is deployed, what is Salva Judum doing? Itching the sore can only make it worse.  Nor does Exclusive politics isnt helping. ________________________________ From: anupam chakravartty To: Prakash K Ray Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Wed, 24 February, 2010 1:51:38 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gautam Navlakha - a Maoist? a survey of Maoists backed with facts from Ministry of Home Affairs written by Navlakha himself: http://www.internationalcentregoa.com/southasia/maoists%20in%20india.pdf -anupam On 2/24/10, Prakash K Ray wrote: > Hi, > > Certainly not. The three persons mentioned in the FIR are more or less > Monks, not Maoists. They came to know about Kabad Ghandhy through > newspapers, and they read about Maoists in the newspapers kept at the > neighborhood barber shop. RDF has nothing to do with the Maoist Party. It is > not its Front organization. It is only involved in encouraging people to use > less plastic and less tobacco. As far as Committee for the Release of > Political Prisoner is concerned, it is only involved in the campaign to > release the pickpockets who are forced to pickpocket due to the > unprecedented rise in prices. So they fall under category of political > prisoners. > > Gautam is a baul singer. > > Down with the false charges. > Happy Holi. > > Regards, > PKR > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 10:15:35 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:15:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Melting Himalayan Glaciers Message-ID: Frontline Column: Beyond the Obvious Praful Bidwai Countering the deniers The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change should create a special commission to scrupulously cross-check all the references in its report. Or else, the climate change-denial lobby will try to exploit a handful of errors to discredit climate science and delay remedial action. ** ** ** Barring a minuscule proportion, those who have even skimmed through parts of the IPCC¹s 2007 Fourth Assessment Report (FAR)‹such as the Synthesis Report for policy-makers, the detailed reports of the three Working Groups, or summaries for the media‹will not fail to be impressed by its overwhelmingly sober and cautious tone, tendency to understate some aspects of the climate crisis, and the careful differentiation it makes between varying emissions scenarios and degrees of likelihood of global warming exceeding a certain level. These degrees are defined with mathematical precision: ³likely² means a probability of over 66 percent; ³very likely² over 90 percent; ³virtually certain² 99 percent-plus; and ³very unlikely² under 10 percent. The 2° C limit for global warming beyond which the IPCC says climate change could become irreversible or dangerous is also probabilistically linked to certain atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations. This is in keeping with the probabilistic notion of scientific truth, as opposed to absolute certainty. Good, responsible science respects and welcomes scepticism and is always aware of its limitations, including the possibility that its conclusions may be falsified, and that its methods are amenable to refinement. The 4,000 scientists drawn from scores of countries who wrote the FAR were tasked to rely on solidly established science, cross-check each major inference or forecast, and back up each number or statement with citations from standard, professionally peer-reviewed science journals. So it is indeed disturbing that some inaccuracies and exaggerations crept into the Working Groups¹ reports, which form the basis of the expert assessments cited in climate change negotiations under the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). The climate change-denial lobby has used these to launch a full-scale assault on the IPCC, questioning its integrity and demanding the resignation of its chairman RK Pachauri, who also heads The Energy and Resources Institute. The lobby‹in which 770 companies have come together to hire over 2,300 agents in Washington alone, in addition to hundreds of supporters in polluting corporations, powerful think-tanks and the media‹is targeting climate science itself. Some British newspapers have also accused Pachauri of abusing his position to secure favours for himself and TERI. It is vital to make a clear demarcation between the individual-centred accusations (on which more below) and the claimed flaws in the FAR. The latter include a statement in the Working Group-2 report that Himalayan glaciers ³are receding faster than in any other part of the world, and if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 Š is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate. Its total area will likely shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 sq km by Š 2035.² There are also accusations that the FAR linked recent natural disasters, including hurricanes, floods and heat waves, to long-term climate processes, based on an as-yet-unpublished paper which has since been revised. Another charge is that the IPCC¹s assessment of reduced ice in the Andes and the Alps was based not on a peer-reviewed journal, but on anecdotal accounts in a magazine for mountaineers, and on a Swiss postgraduate student¹s dissertation. Yet another accusation relates to rapid forest loss in the Amazon. Earlier, the climate change-deniers¹ lobby hacked into the personal emails of researchers at Britain¹s East Anglia University, and claimed that that they deliberately manipulated or suppressed data to suit predetermined conclusions about accelerated climate change. Of all these charges, the first is the most important and best-documented, and prompted the IPCC to express ³regret². The other accusations appear weakly substantiated or based on certain interpretations (e.g. of the colloquial term ³fix² in the hacked emails, which may mean accommodating observed differences, not manipulating data). The statement about the glaciers disappearing by 2035 was not based on a reference in a peer-reviewed journal, but on a report by the advocacy group WWF. This in turn was based on a 1999 report in the British popular science magazine New Scientist, which quoted Syed Iqbal Hasnain, an Indian glaciologist, then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University, and now with TERI. However, Hasnain denies having told the New Scientist reporter that the glaciers are likely to vanish by a specific year, only that they are receding rapidly. Matters are complicated by the fact that Hasnain did not contradict the report until recently and cited it without quoting himself in some of his recent presentations. He says that predicting a year by which the glaciers will disappear is ³speculation². Hasnain, who has published some 30 scientific papers, has been chairman of the Working Group on Himalayan Glaciology of the International Commission for Snow and Ice (ICSI). But the ICSI¹s report, published in 1999, said nothing about Himalayan glaciers. It turns out that the source of the ³speculation² was a 1996 report by Russian scientist VM Kotlyakov, which said Himalayan glaciers are likely to disappear by 2350. The figure was transposed as 2035. The IPCC got it wrong by 300 years and did not bother to check its source. It also allowed another major error to creep in: a gross inflation of the area of the Himalayan glaciers‹500,000 sq km, 16 times higher than the normally accepted figure. These inaccuracies are egregious and unbecoming of good science based on robust facts and observations. They must not be minimised, as Pachauri tried to do when he claimed on January 23 that the IPCC¹s retraction has ³strengthened² its credibility. This claim is patently untenable. It also turns out that Pachauri was wrong in telling The Times (London) on January 22: ³I became aware of [the 2035 error] when it was reported in the media about ten days ago. Before that, it was really not made known Š² But emails on this issue have been circulating since early December. Pallava Bagla, a correspondent of the journal Science, says he had asked Pachauri about the 2035 claim last November, weeks before the Copenhagen conference began. He was told: ³I don¹t have anything to add on glaciers.² But last week, Bagla asked Pachauri: ³I pointed it out [the error] to you in several e-mails, several discussions, yet you decided to overlook it. Was that so that you did not want to destabilise what was happening in Copenhagen?² Pachauri answered: ³Not at all Š. As it happens, we were all terribly preoccupied with a lot of events. We were working round the clock with several things that had to be done in Copenhagen. It was only when the story broke, I think in December, we decided to, well, early this month‹as a matter of fact, I can give you the exact dates‹early in January that we decided to go into it Š. And within three or four days, we were able to come up with a clear and a very honest and objective assessment Š.² However, none of this detracts from the soundness of the assessment that the Himalayan glaciers are melting rapidly. This assessment is not based a few studies, but on numerous independent lines of evidence established by scores of scientists in India, China, Nepal, the U.S., Germany, and elsewhere. A single slip of this kind cannot demolish a whole body of scientific knowledge which has emerged after a quarter-century of serious international effort at understanding the impact of human activity on the climate system. Yet, scientists do not know nearly enough about the Himalayan glaciers¹ behaviour to say how rapidly they will retreat or disappear. The Himalayas are not as well-studied or -photographed as, say, the Alps. Scientists use various methods to study glacier behaviour‹visual imagery, remote-sensing, measurement of glacier length, snout positions and discharge volumes, and changes in mass. Mass balance, measured by new in situ techniques, is the most reliable indicator. But very few Himalayan sites have been studied for mass balance loss. So scientists cannot predict the precise behaviour of even some of the Himalayas¹ 12,000-15,000 glaciers. Their disappearance by 2035, says an international group of glaciologists, would require ³a 25-fold greater loss rate from 1999 to 2035 than that estimated for 1960 to 1999². However, there is compelling evidence that glaciers in the entire Greater Himalayas, stretching from the Hindu Kush to the Central and Eastern Himalayas to the Tibetan Plateau, barring the Karakoram range, are shrinking at historically high rates. Studies published in peer-reviewed journals document a significant loss of glacier area, mass balance and length since the 1960s. For instance, a study of 1,317 glaciers in 11 different places documents a 16 percent area loss since 1962. Another study, which looks at important glaciers like Pindari, Gangotri, Parbati, Dokriani, Sara Umanga, Chandra and Bhaga, finds retraction by 5 to 49 metres since observations began. The average annual loss of area between 1962 and 2001/2 was 0.39 percent. Similarly, mass balance studies show a high loss of volume, decreasing depth, fragmentation and accelerating recession. Report after annual report of the World Glacier Monitoring Service confirms this. Glaciers are shrinking the world over. As they shrink, black rock is exposed. This reflects back only 5 percent of sunlight, compared to 80 percent for snow/ice. This accelerates melting, in turn leading to greater warming. This iterative process is called ³positive feedback² and is similar to what is happening to the polar ice-sheets. There is one significant difference, however, as regards the Himalayas. That is the effect of Black Carbon or soot generated from the incomplete combustion of diesel, coal and biomass. Black Carbon, according to one estimate, accounts for one-third to one-half of Himalayan glacier recession. In South Asia, cookstoves burning fuelwood, twigs, vegetable residues and cowdung are a major Black Carbon source, and cause respiratory problems among women who use primitive chulhas in unventilated kitchens. Such indoor pollution is estimated to kill 400,000 annually. Critically relevant and material here are the likely consequences of Himalayan glacier melting. The Himalayas are rightly called the world¹s Third Pole and Asia¹s Water Tower. They feed seven great river systems, including the Ganga, Indus, Brahmaputra, Yangtze and Mekong, on which some 1.3 billion people depend. Rapid glacier melting will have a horrifying impact on water availability, threatening millions of livelihoods, especially of the poor. We must act urgently to prevent Himalayan glacier retreat. One site of action is cookstoves. Four-fifths of India¹s rural households are compelled to use biomass-based cookstoves with a thermal efficiency of 1-2 percent because they are poor and have no access to clean fuel like liquefied petroleum gas. There is an imperative need to help them shift to efficient cookstoves burning LPG‹by redeploying the existing subsidy on kerosene (Rs 30,000 crores). Simultaneously, kerosene, largely burnt as lighting fuel, must be replaced by solar home-lighting, which is cheaper than extending the electricity grid to India¹s one-lakh-plus unelectrified villages (of a total of 6 lakhs). The IPCC failed to apply well-established procedures and its own standards, including ³thorough review of the quality and validity of each source² cited in its report. It must rectify the error by revisiting the Himalayan glacier issue. But it would best restore its credibility by appointing a special commission to cross-check and verify all the references in its reports, which identifies citations not based on robust facts. This will have a salutary impact on the UNFCCC climate negotiations. As for Pachauri, he faces several conflict-of-interest allegations. TERI allegedly received Rs 56 lakhs from India¹s Ministry for Environment and Forests (MoEF) for conducting IPCC meetings between 2004 and 2006. TERI has also reportedly received tens of thousands of dollars from corporations like Toyota Motor Company or businesses involved in emissions trading (Deutsche Bank). Pachauri also holds posts in interested parties like Carbon Exchange and the Pegasus Fund. Pachauri does not hide his corporate connections. His just-published novel was released in Mumbai by Mukesh Ambani in the presence of other industrialists and bankers. This does not necessarily suggest that TERI¹s work or IPCC¹s integrity was compromised. But it warrants full disclosure of the details of the grants and fees TERI received from different sources‹in the interest of transparency and the spirit of science, which the IPCC is meant to uphold. To demand this is not to allege, as environment minister Jairam Ramesh did, that the IPCC is ³alarmist² and that his own position that the Himalayan glaciers present a ³mixed² picture‹both retreat and advance‹stands vindicated. Even less does it justify the paranoid charge that the IPCC or Western powers indulged in ³India-bashing² to extract major concessions at from it the climate talks. The official Indian position on Himalayan glaciers has oscillated between outright denial and agnosticism. This is reflected in geologist VK Raina¹s discussion paper put on the MoEF website, which is neither peer-reviewed nor well-referenced and credible. Climate change denial is irrational and dangerous. Indian leaders are right to deplore it in the West. But they should stop practising their own form of semi-denial on the Himalayan issue and move quickly towards remedial action on Black Carbon, and on mitigation of and adaptation to changes in the Himalayan ecosystem. It is in too precarious a state to be ignored. ‹end‹ From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 13:21:01 2010 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:21:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Living Outside the Track"- A Woman Worker's Struggle Against Caste and Patriarchy in Kerala Message-ID: <1f9180971002242351y7b00ea2cjc13c9f256eef26b3@mail.gmail.com> This is the report of a solidarity mission that was invited by Feminists Kerala Network to visit Payyanur and attempt to ascertain the facts around an incident of violence involving Chithralekha, a Dalit woman auto driver, on January 20, 2010. Feminists Kerala Network is a loose network based in Kerala and outside, of feminists, Dalit activists, queer activists and other individuals involved with new social movements in Kerala. The solidarity mission consisted of Gail Omvedt, Professor, B. R. Ambedkar Chair at Indira Gandhi National Open University, Delhi; V Geetha , Publisher (Tara Books), author and social activist, Chennai; K.K Preetha, Advocate, Kerala High Court, Ernakulam; Nivedita Menon, Professor, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi. http://kafila.org/2010/02/25/%E2%80%9Cliving-outside-the-track%E2%80%9D-a-woman-worker%E2%80%99s-struggle-against-caste-and-patriarchy-in-kerala/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kafila%2Ffeed2+%28Kafila%29 -- -- You cannot build anything on the foundations of caste. You cannot build up a nation, you cannot build up a morality. Anything that you will build on the foundations of caste will crack and will never be a whole. -AMBEDKAR http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From aliens at dataone.in Thu Feb 25 17:10:00 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:10:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: References: <000001cab4b1$cec97240$6c5c56c0$@in> Message-ID: <000101cab60f$43931dc0$cab95940$@in> Dear Sonia, Freely availability of land for industrial purpose is the not only criteria for healthy industrialization. The various factors effect to set up an industry. But free availability of land is the basic initial thing for anyone to think for setting up industry. There is ampoule of industries in UP/Bihar but mismanagement, politics, criminals and there large size is hindrance to grow healthily. Some state have major mining industries like Rajasthan where other industrial setup has limitation since major land occupies the mining industry, other than mine district you will find many industries in Rajasthan also. The desert district like Kutch of Gujarat has revolutionary development in spite of desert region. Of course along with availability of land there was encouraging subsidy scheme from central/state govt. put it in the industrial map today. Even in the desert area, huge solar power plant, wind turbine plant is coming up. To setup an industry, free (without hindrance, not free of cost) availability of land is the key criteria to initiate and even think for industry at that place. Everywhere in India, Indians must have right to buy the land without restriction. Be it Himachal or anywhere. Since, Kashmir is much disturbed area, it catches more attention for necessary reforms. There is no question of any forest land to allot for industry and there is forest prevention act applicable to all the states of India. No question of setting up industry at Andaman & Nicobar since practically no unemployment there. Industry setup requires to solve unemployment and which is huge in J&K. Since J&K is disturbed area it should be free for all Indian citizens to get amalgamated with India. Let the people of other states come and you will see the difference in short span. I am not talking land for shop. Land require to setup industry suitable to their environment and it will only better way for large employment. We have many such example of backward area where govt. declares subsidy to set up an industries and benefited by way of large employment and others. Trade rout perhaps with pak what you are mentioning is again having infiltration problem which we are facing today and that is key problem today for disturbance in India and Kashmir. We have started bus/train route as a good gesture and intention before 10 years, what is the result? Even we bow down many times after terror attack and they think this as our weakness. They want Kashmir problem to be solved first (solved means handover it to them in their eye). Even in today's foreign secretary talk also what was the result? They want to talk first on Kashmir only nothing else. Sorry to tell but Pakistan becomes rogue state and one cannot rely on pak anymore. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: S. Jabbar [mailto:sonia.jabbar at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:03 AM To: Bipin; 'Kshmendra Kaul' Cc: Sarai Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Linking development to the availability of land for industrial use is one of the most bizarre economic arguments I have heard. By this yardstick every other state of India should have been superbly developed and we would not be hosting a third of the world's poor. So any idea why, where land is freely available to industry, states like Madhya Pradesh have the lowest growth rates? What about UP, Bihar and Rajasthan? If tomorrow land is offered gratis to industrialists in the middle of the Thar desert to set up factories, do you seriously think you would have an industrial revolution? Many Indians have questions about Article 370, some valid, some not so valid. Until quite recently you weren't allowed to buy land in Himachal but no one made a fuss about that. There are restrictions in place even now as to how much one can buy and for what use. There are other parts of India where there are similar restrictions: for example in the Andaman & Nicobar islands, where some islands are completely off bounds even to tourists let alone developers and industrialists. It would be foolish to argue that these should be opened up for the 'benefit' and well-being of its inhabitants. 23% of India's land is under forests and under the Forest Act you cannot buy this land and start a farm or build a house or do anything with it. Would you argue that this should be made available for 'development'? Even if you abolished Article 370 and invited industrialists to J&K they would not come for a very simple reason: you cannot place your business in a disturbed area. Peace and political stability are inextricably linked to sustainable development. And then the reason I referred to J&K's traditional trade routes is that if & when there is peace and if & when these routes re-open these would be a far greater incentive to business than the simple offer of owning land in perpetuity. If I made razor blades or soap, for example, why would I set up shop in J&K with its limited market and take on the added headache and cost of transporting raw materials all the way there when my markets are in densely populated Delhi and UP? I would only do that if I had access to new markets in N. Pakistan and the Xianjiang region. > From: Bipin > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:28:29 +0530 > To: 'Kshmendra Kaul' > Cc: sarai-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When > was that? > > Dear Kshemendra, You are right, that due to our constitution compulsion to > remove article 370 is remote possibility and that way it was framed earlier > reason god knows. Perhaps our pseudo-secular society will never give such an > opportunity. There is a remote possibility of it, since 2/3 majority for any > political party is not possible and of course for BJP also not at all, so in > my opinion, let even India become super power than also Kashmir position > will not improve and cannot amalgamated in India and the path of its > development also will have restrictions. My only intention to raise point > of article 370 is for development of Kashmir only and not at all politics. If > Kashmiri people will understand this will definitely for their benefit only. > Let us hope and wait for that day that the land of heaven becomes practically > real land of heaven for the people of Kashmir. If they understand this and > come out from the separatists trap will benefit them. Thanks Bipin > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, > February 23, 2010 7:25 PM To: Bipin Cc: sarai-list Subject: RE: [Reader-list] > Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? Dear Bipin > It is not possible to abolish Art 370 so I would suggest that you do > not factor in any such possibility if you are looking at how to improve > the situation in Kashmir. Art370 is so deeply embedded in the Constitution > of India (COI) that it has been humourously opined that it is possible to > amend every Article of COI other than Art 370. There is always the > possibilty of: - Declaring an Emergency and suspending Art 370 during the > pendancy of Emergency. Such an Emergency would have to declared in all of > India and not just J&K because Art370 is a ruling provision in COI and > reflected secondarily in the Constitution of J&K. Such a suspension would > in any case be a temporary suspension and post lifting of Emergency any steps > of Constitutional Import have to be ratified by due processes as specified in > COI. Which brings you back to square one. - The other possibility is one > through playing havoc with the COI by Unconstitutional Amendments to various > other Articles. For this to happen in connection with Art370, it would > require a political party like BJP having a two-thirds majority in both houses > of the Parliament and similar Legislative Control in at least 50 percent of > the States. I do not see that happening in my lifetime. > Kshmendra --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Bipin wrote: From: > Bipin Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central > Asia Trade Route. When was that? To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" > Cc: "sarai-list" Date: > Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 6:18 PM Dear Kshemendra, Abolition of article > 370 is my point of view (and so many my fellow Indians also) will help Kashmir > bring back in the normal situation and get amalgamated with India. I don't > want to look into the Kashmir history, but looking to the future of it. > Whatever happened in the history, good or bad is past, but I am looking for > the probable prosperity in the future. And not only valley but whole Jammu & > Kashmir even including POK since one day it will be with India only. So, I am > looking to broader prospect and not at all restricting to valley. Since, > problem created in valley by so called separatists only and they > Are responsible for present situation and huge unemployment. > Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: > reader-list-bounces at sarai.net ader-list-bounces at sarai.net> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list-bounces at sarai.net> ] On Behalf > Of Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:23 PM To: Sonia Jabbar; > sarai list Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. > When was that? Dear Sonia Bipin seems to have inadvertently posted into the > Reader List your correspondence with him. The two of you were discussing > Abolition of Article 370 / Industrial Policies / Business and Employment > Opportunities. Very pertinent observations by you. I found > interesting/intriguing the following comment by you: """"" the fact that > Kashmir which was once an entrepot, a hub on the lucrative Central Asia trade > route """""" I wonder what you meant by "HUB". The two of you were > discussing Indian Controlled Kashmir. Please do inform when it was that > Kashmir was a "hub" on the the Central Asia Trade Route. There must be > credible references testifying to that. Never too late to learn. While asking > my question I have kept in mind both the routing of the "Silk Road" as well as > that of the "Mughal Road" (and it's purpose). Repeating myself, Indian > Controlled Kashmir is under reference and especially the Valley Kshmendra > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an > email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net ader-list-request at sarai.net> with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ > Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database > 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. http://www.eset.com > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4889 (20100223) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 17:18:15 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:18:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: <000101cab60f$43931dc0$cab95940$@in> References: <000001cab4b1$cec97240$6c5c56c0$@in> <000101cab60f$43931dc0$cab95940$@in> Message-ID: It seems on reading Bipin ji's ideas that I am reading the commentary on Govt. of India. He may do well to instead read about how actually land is being acquired through fraud in different parts of the country, in the name of development. He would surely get the news on this. Rakesh From aliens at dataone.in Thu Feb 25 17:41:05 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:41:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: References: <000001cab4b1$cec97240$6c5c56c0$@in> <000101cab60f$43931dc0$cab95940$@in> Message-ID: <000301cab613$9b08a7b0$d119f710$@in> Dear Rakesh, Every act/law has misuse and so probable land acquirement also, but we cannot stop land allotment or industrialization. If you count misuse merely about maximum 10%. Of course one must control misuse of it, but if you see most of the politician only involved in the misuse. All the criminal/civil laws have misused, it does not mean we should not frame laws. Thanks Bipin From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:18 PM To: Bipin Cc: S. Jabbar; sarai-list Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? It seems on reading Bipin ji's ideas that I am reading the commentary on Govt. of India. He may do well to instead read about how actually land is being acquired through fraud in different parts of the country, in the name of development. He would surely get the news on this. Rakesh From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 18:04:31 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:04:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Six teenagers in Murshidabad run a school Message-ID: http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/samaritan-students Samaritan Students An article by Jaideep Mazumdar Six teenagers in Murshidabad are giving all they can to teach children from extremely poor families. A voluntary mission that has a lesson for everyone. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 18:10:16 2010 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:10:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir as HUB on Central Asia Trade Route. When was that? In-Reply-To: <000301cab613$9b08a7b0$d119f710$@in> References: <000001cab4b1$cec97240$6c5c56c0$@in> <000101cab60f$43931dc0$cab95940$@in> <000301cab613$9b08a7b0$d119f710$@in> Message-ID: Dear Bipin jee I am thoroughly surprised at the way you present facts without any proof. It seems as if generalized information is being presented without even finding out whether it is real or not, that is, it can be backed by rational and scientific investigations or not. For your kind information, the CAG report will be enough to state that India has more than 10% misuse in the schemes which are made. While I never said that we shouldn't make laws, making laws alone is not the solution. What is required is a constant monitoring by the society, all of us, as citizens, to ensure that the conventions which are upheld by the society, based upon rational and democratic debates, are followed in letter and spirit, and those who breach these conventions, have to face the consequences. Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 25 18:42:34 2010 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:12:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=22Under_Indonesia=E2=80=99s_Surface=2C_a?= =?utf-8?q?n_Intricate_Quilt_of_Faiths=22_=28unearthing_of_2_ninth-century?= =?utf-8?q?_Hindu_temples=29?= Message-ID: <191068.82294.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Apart from the unearthing of the two Ninth Century Hindu Temples, the following have been reported:   - " In the main temple, 20 feet by 20 feet, a perfectly preserved statue of Ganesha, the elephant-headed deity, sat next to a linga, the symbol of worship for the god Shiva, and a yoni, the symbol of worship for the goddess Shakti."   - "In the adjacent secondary temple, about 20 feet by 13 feet, researchers exhumed another linga and yoni, as well as two altars and a statue of Nandi, the sacred bull that carried Shiva."   There are some other interesting comments:   - "Historians believe that Hinduism spread in Java in the fifth century, followed three centuries later by Buddhism. Kingdoms hewing to both Hindu and Buddhist beliefs flourished in Java before they were eclipsed by Islam in the 15th century."   - "Islam itself incorporated beliefs and ceremonies from the other two religions."   - "some unearthed temples in east Java have a Hindu upper half and a Buddhist lower half"   - "some early mosques had roofs in the shape of Hindu temples,"   - "Early mosques faced not in Mecca’s direction, but west or east in the manner of Hindu temples."   - "Food, flowers and incense still accompany many funerals for Muslims, in keeping with Hindu and Buddhist traditions."   - "Hinduism was Indonesia’s main religion for 1,000 years, so its influence is still strong.”   In view of some of the above news and comments, the statement about Indonesia that  "Islam was adopted through a process of acculturation."  might be at best a politically correct one.   Kshmendra   The New York Times February 18, 2010 Yogyakarta Journal   "Under Indonesia’s Surface, an Intricate Quilt of Faiths" By NORIMITSU ONISHI   YOGYAKARTA, Indonesia — As if on cue, the two Buddhist monks in saffron robes appeared one late afternoon recently, seemingly out of nowhere, to complete the picture of Indonesia’s religious past and present.   The visitors stood at the edge of a large fenced-off pit where a ninth-century Hindu temple had recently been unearthed here on the campus of the Islamic University of Indonesia. On the other side of the pit, where a mosque’s large dome rose in the backdrop, the muezzin would soon call the faithful to the sunset prayer.   The discovery of the nearly intact Hindu temple was a reminder of the long religious trajectory of the country that now has the world’s largest Muslim population. In few places on earth have three major religions intermixed with such intensity and proximity as in Indonesia’s island of Java. If the sultan of Yogyakarta’s palace lies at the heart of this city, Java’s spiritual center, the world’s largest Buddhist monument, Borobudur, and one of its largest Hindu temples, Prambanan, stand in its outskirts.   About 90 percent of Indonesians are now Muslim, with only pockets of Buddhists and Hindus left. But Hinduism and Buddhism, Java’s dominant religions for a much longer period, permeate the society and contribute to Indonesia’s traditionally moderate form of Islam.   For more than a decade, proponents of a more orthodox version of Islam have gained ground in Indonesia. More women are wearing head scarves and more Indonesians are adopting Arabic-style religious rituals as fundamentalists press for a purge of pre-Islamic values and ceremonies. But Indonesia’s traditional Islam provides a counterpoint.   “This is Indonesia,” said Suwarsono Muhammad, an official at the Islamic University. “In the long history of Indonesia, we have proven that different religions can live peacefully.” In that spirit, Mr. Muhammad said, the university planned to showcase the Hindu temple prominently in front of a library to be built around it, in the shape of a half-circle.   It all began last August when the private university decided to build the library, “the symbol of knowledge of our religion,” next to the mosque, Mr. Muhammad said. In the two decades the university had occupied its 79-acre campus outside Yogyakarta, no temple had ever been found. But chances were high that they were around. Most of the nearby villages had the same prefix in their names: candi, meaning temple.   By Dec. 11, a construction crew had already removed nearly seven feet of earth. But the soil proved unstable, and the crew decided to dig 20 inches deeper. A backhoe then struck something unusually hard.   The crack the backhoe left on the temple wall would become the main sign of damage on what experts say could be the best-preserved ancient monument found in Java.   Researchers from the government’s Archaeological Office in Yogyakarta headed to the campus the next day, excavated for 35 days and eventually unearthed two 1,100-year-old small temples. In the main temple, 20 feet by 20 feet, a perfectly preserved statue of Ganesha, the elephant-headed deity, sat next to a linga, the symbol of worship for the god Shiva, and a yoni, the symbol of worship for the goddess Shakti.   In the adjacent secondary temple, about 20 feet by 13 feet, researchers exhumed another linga and yoni, as well as two altars and a statue of Nandi, the sacred bull that carried Shiva.   “The temples are not so big, but they have features that we haven’t found in Indonesia before,” Herni Pramastuti, who runs the Archaeological Office, said, pointing to the rectangle-shaped temple, the existence of two sets of linga and yoni, and the presence of two altars.   Researchers surmised that the temples were preserved in pristine condition because they were buried in a volcanic eruption a century after they were built. The lava from Mount Merapi, about 7.5 miles to the north, is believed to have filled a nearby river before flowing over the temples, minimizing damage.   Indung Panca Putra, a researcher at the Archaeological Office, said the temples’ walls and statues contained refined details not found in the dozen small Hindu and Buddhist temples discovered in this area.   Officials moved the most valuable artifact, the statue of Ganesha, to the Archaeological Office. For further protection against thieves, workers erected a fence on the campus, and guards limited access inside.   The two Buddhist monks, though, had had no trouble getting inside. They had traveled from their monastery, about an hour away by car, to visit.   “These are our ancestors, so we have a sense of belonging,” said one monk, Dhammiko. Historians believe that Hinduism spread in Java in the fifth century, followed three centuries later by Buddhism. Kingdoms hewing to both Hindu and Buddhist beliefs flourished in Java before they were eclipsed by Islam in the 15th century.   But Islam itself incorporated beliefs and ceremonies from the other two religions. Just as some unearthed temples in east Java have a Hindu upper half and a Buddhist lower half, some early mosques had roofs in the shape of Hindu temples, said Timbul Haryono, a professor of archaeology at Gadjah Mada University here and an expert on Hinduism in Southeast Asia. Early mosques faced not in Mecca’s direction, but west or east in the manner of Hindu temples.   “Things didn’t change all of a sudden,” Mr. Haryono said. “Islam was adopted through a process of acculturation.”   In Indonesia’s arts, like the wayang shadow puppetry that dramatizes Hindu epics, or in people’s private lives, traces of the earlier religions survive, he said. Food, flowers and incense still accompany many funerals for Muslims, in keeping with Hindu and Buddhist traditions.   “Hinduism was Indonesia’s main religion for 1,000 years,” he said, “so its influence is still strong.”   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/world/asia/18indo.html     From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 22:44:28 2010 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:44:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmir paratrooper laid down life for the Nation" Message-ID: <6353c691002250914hdd34f25y1fc4d13e25a1793d@mail.gmail.com> My son laid down his life for the nation, says father of Kashmiri paratrooper***Mir Ehsan ** Indian Express Link - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/My-son-laid-down-his-life-for-the-nation--says-father-of-Kashmiri-paratrooper/584264 * As the last post was sounded, Naik Altaf Ahmad took slow steps towards the coffin of his brother, paratrooper Imtiyaz Ahmad, and placed a wreath. Behind him was younger brother Naik Sajjad Ahmad who too saluted the Tricolour-draped coffin. Looking on were hundreds of villagers, both men and women, who had gathered at the local graveyard to bid a final farewell to the village boy who had joined the elite 1 Para three years ago. Paratrooper Imtiyaz Ahmad Thokar, 22, killed in a gunbattle with militants in Sopore, was the third son of farmer Nazir Ahmad to join the Army. After a brief stint with the CRPF in 2006, Imtiyaz joined the Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry (JAKLI). Impressed by his dedication during training, his JAKLI unit sent him for special training. For the past one year, his unit was deployed at Chowkibal Kupwara but it was only on Id last September that he came to meet them, said family members. “On Tuesday afternoon, Imtiyaz’s friend called me from Sopore and said he had been injured. A few hours later, the Army called and broke the news of his death,” said brother Shakeel Ahmad who left his police job a few years ago. “Since I was unemployed, he used to take care of my family. He even used to recharge my prepaid mobile. When I called him on Sunday, he promised me a postpaid connection.” Father Nazir Ahmad said his son had done the family proud. “Today, I am a proud father. My son laid down his life for the nation. He was a brave boy and fought like a valiant soldier.” The two brothers in the Army — one of them is posted in Siachen and another with the Congo peacekeeping force — said their only regret was that they couldn’t meet Imtiyaz while in Kashmir. “I came here two days ago from Siachen on leave for ten days. On Monday, I called Imtiyaz and said I had reached. He said he would try to come home next week. But he didn’t keep his promise,” said Sajjad. Altaf boarded a special flight arranged by the Army to attend the funeral. “My brother died like a brave soldier. He had joined the Army after seeing us in uniform. When he was selected for the Army, he promised to hold his head high. He kept his word. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 00:19:08 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:19:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Panel Discussion on 'Different Tales', Anveshi's series of children's books: Hyderabad, March 4, 2010 Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Raju Naik Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:31 PM Subject: Invitation to a Panel Discussion On behalf of the Department of English Literature of Common Wealth Countries, EFL University, I am pleased to invite you to a panel discussion on Different Tales (an initiative by Anveshi, Hyderabad, in the field of Children’s literature). Please see below for more details about the project. Time: 2-5 PM Date: Thursday, 04 March 2010 Venue: Conference Hall, EFL University Panelists and topics: Prof. Susie Tharu (Scholar in Residence, Dept. of Cultural Studies, EFL University): Why Different Tales? An overview of the project Prof. D. Vasanta (Dept. of Linguistics at Osmania University): Narrative account of the project Dr. Deepa Srinivas (Coordinator of the stories project; worked as a Fellow at Anveshi): Re-thinking Children’s Literature Shyamala (Fellow, Anveshi and a well-known Dalit Feminist writer): Context in which I wrote the stories Dr. Deeptha Achar (Reader, Dept. of English Literature, MS University of Baroda): Imaging Children, Imagining Children’s Books Different Tales is an attempt by Anveshi, Hyderabad, to develop stories for children that expand the scope of our democracy with new characters, new settings, new conflicts and dilemmas and levels of dissent, as well as unexpected sources of enjoyment and strength. The stories engage questions of marginalization--along the axes of gender, caste, minority, region, disability by bringing the everyday worlds of people from such groups into the mainstream of children's reading. The narratives pull critically away from the normative idea of childhood even as they affirm the variegated lives of different children. Most importantly, they propose a concept of education that centres ideas of teaching conflict. Several of the writers draw on their own childhoods to depict different ways of growing up in an often hostile world. The artwork, done by a group of distinguished artists from Baroda, extends these issues into the field of visual representation and provides parallel experiences of looking, seeing and thinking. It breaks with the idea of illustration as an ornamentation of the text as the artists explore a diversity of painterly languages and idioms to develop the propositions made in the series. All are welcome. Please forward this mail to those who might be interested. Raju Naik Asst. Professor, EFL University From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 00:56:37 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:56:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mongolian author rides camel to bring children closer to books Message-ID: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mongolian-author-rides-camel-to-bring-children-closer-to-books/575841/0 From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 03:27:15 2010 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:57:15 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pk Aman Ittehad (Peace Coalition) condemns killing of Sikhs Message-ID: <5af37bb1002251357y3c62779dwbc400845c9cc8fa8@mail.gmail.com> In the context of extra judicial killings in the areas of NWFP Date: Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:47 PM *PRESS RELEASE* Pakistan Peace Coalition condemns beheading of Sikhs, demands protection to all monitories KARACHI, Feb. 23 – Pakistan Peace Coalition (PPP) has vehemently condemned the terrorist acts of beheading of two Sikhs in separate incidents in Khyber and Orakzai agencies of Federal Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) by militants and termed them attempts to sabotage the revival of peace prcess between Pakistan and India. In a statement on Tuesday, PPC members expressed grief and sorrow over the tragic murder of two Sikhs, who were earlier kidnapped by Taliban terrorists. In the most recent incident Taliban terrorists killed Jaspal Singh in Khyber Agency. Singh along with two others, was kidnapped by terrorists two weeks before, and their captors were demanding ransom money for their release. However, when the relatives agreed to pay ransom money, the Taliban kidnappers ruthlessly beheaded Jaspal Singh and threw away his body. While two others Sikhs - Gurjit Singh and Gurvinder Singh - are still in their custody. The relatives of deceased found a letter with the body warning them with suicide attacks if the details of the beheading and kidnapping were revealed to the media or security forces. According to some news reports Taliban had forced Jaspal Singh to cut his hair and convert to Islam to which he refused and they beheaded him in retaliation. In a similar incident a month ago, Taliban had kidnapped another Pakistani Sikh Mahal Singh in Orakzai Agency and killed him. A small number of Sikhs are peacefully living in NWFP and tribal areas since centuries. There have been reports that Sikhs in this region have been subjected to Jizya - an Islamic tax that is collected from non-Muslims. All these taxes are illegal and tantamount to challenge the writ of the government. A large number of Sikhs have already migrated from NWFP to various areas in Punjab in fear of Taliban militants. All these tragic incidents have moved the entire Pakistani nation as no civil society can tolerate such barbaric acts. The minorities in Pakistan are already feeling insecurity in Pakistan and these types of incidents are attempt to harass the vulnerable sections of the society. These incidents would certainly increase uncertainty and fear among the monitories and jeopardize the peace process in this region. A large number of Sikhs are living in India and anti-peace elements in India may use this incident to create hindrances in peace talks. We are confident that Indian government would not use this incident as an excuse to further delay the peace negotiations. Be believe that the peace dialogue should be a continuous process without any interference and Pakistan government should take serious measures to protect its minorities and stern action be taken against terrorists. State should use all its resources to get all the remaining hostages freed from their kidnapers. Ends __._,_.___ From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 13:01:14 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:01:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pratham Books and Radio Mirchi join hands to share stories with visually challengd kids Message-ID: http://blog.prathambooks.org/2010/02/radio-mirchi-and-pratham-books-join.html From iram.ghufran at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 13:38:33 2010 From: iram.ghufran at gmail.com (iram ghufran) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:08:33 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Dialogue Remains' : installation by Ranu Ghosh Message-ID: <6c6fbec51002260008o3d41974fy15d46a630bc036af@mail.gmail.com> Installation by Ranu Ghosh at the Persistence Resistance Festival organized by the Magic Lantern Foundation 'Dialogue Remains' >From her project on "The changing industrial landscape of Kolkata' February 25 - 27 India International Centre, New Delhi 6pm onwards All are invited. -- Iram Ghufran Sarai Media Lab Sarai/ CSDS 29 Rajpur Road Delhi 110057 http://citystudio.ning.com/profile/IramGhufran From aliens at dataone.in Fri Feb 26 13:06:40 2010 From: aliens at dataone.in (Bipin) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:06:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GUJARAT ASSESSMENT BY PRAIN SHETH Message-ID: <000001cab6b6$705c9820$5115c860$@in> Why is Gujarat state No 1 Gujarat's GDP has been growing at 12 per cent, as fast as China's, under the leadership of Chief Minister Narendra Modi; this has left many states behind By Pravin Sheth Though critical issues like unemployment, low indicators of social development (HDI) and population living Below Poverty Line (BPL) cannot be overlooked, it was persistent under all regimes. Modi and Health Minister J N Vyas have floated several credible schemes to improve the state's performance on HDI. The state government has also earmarked financial aid of Rs 1,500 crore for 25 lakh poor families which will be delivered by 2010. While 1.43 BPL families will get plots to build houses, about 2.59 lakh families will be given houses before May 2011. Modi government aims at providing jobs to 10 lakh youths, water supply to 12,000 villages and electricity to 17,940 villages. http://www.ahmedabadmirror.com/article/59/2010022520100225030851448ca24ad6/W hy-is-Gujarat-state-No-1.html Posted On Thursday, February 25, 2010 at 03:08:51 AM Not a month goes without news reports highlighting the achievement and development of Gujarat. Reports on the recent developments evince that Gujarat is a "happening state" which entitles it to be ranked first among all Indian states. Agriculture scientist M S Swaminathan rightly puts it, "Gujarat owes it to a scientific and integrated approach to agriculture during Narendra Modi's tenure which is backed by a sharp vision." The initiative of Modi government to provide soil health cards to farmers has brought second 'Green Revolution' in Gujarat. The state has now changed gears to become an auto hub. After Tata, Hero Honda, the world's largest two-wheeler maker, is set to establish a manufacturing unit in the state. Gujarat has highly diversified industries - from diamonds to denim, fertilisers to pharmaceuticals, automobile to milk products, cotton, art-silk, ceramics and oil seeds. Most of these industries have notched up top slots in terms of production - in India and world alike. Gujarat contributes to 40 per cent of the country's pharma and art-silk industries, 80 per cent of polished diamond industry and 11 per cent of the world's chemical exports. The state government has formed a land bank of 50,000 hectares for industrial houses to choose the sites online. For past 12 years, Gujarat's GDP (Gross Domestic Product) has been growing at 12 per cent - as fast as China's. Gujaratis, who hold 30 per cent of scrips floating in the market, account for 16 per cent of Indian exports and 17 per cent of GDP. The state is India's petro-gas capital. Political stability, entrepreneurial spirit and ever-improving infra-structure attract capital and entrepreneurs from East Asia, the West and even from the Middle East. Country's largest social base of business class of Banias, Parsis, Khojas, Bohras constitutes Gujarat's business community. A commercially-tuned culture and Modi's resourceful leadership have made Gujarat the most "fast forward state of India". Though critical issues like unemployment, low indicators of social development (HDI) and population living Below Poverty Line (BPL) cannot be overlooked, it was persistent under all regimes. Modi and Health Minister J N Vyas have floated several credible schemes to improve the state's performance on HDI. The state government has also earmarked financial aid of Rs 1,500 crore for 25 lakh poor families which will be delivered by 2010. While 1.43 BPL families will get plots to build houses, about 2.59 lakh families will be given houses before May 2011. Modi government aims at providing jobs to 10 lakh youths, water supply to 12,000 villages and electricity to 17,940 villages. Also, the government departments will be graded according to their performance in achieving the goal. The state has sanctioned Rs 1,000 crore for Sakhi Mandals to micro-finance thousands of women. Gujarat has bagged several prestigious awards like UN Sasakawa Award for disaster mitigation, CAPAM award for innovation in governance, UNESCO award, CSI award for e-governance and Indiatech award in power sector. The state is front-runner in attracting industrial investment (MoUs). It is first in implementing major health care services. Besides, availability and utility of infrastructure and state-wide fibre-optic connectivity puts it on world map. Gujarat's synergising relationship with its Diaspora demonstrates what Gujarat has achieved under the Modi government. Clinton Foundation has awarded Gujarat the world's largest solar plant and 34 solar projects are in the pipeline. The state has the distinction of housing India's first tidal energy project and the largest wind energy farm. Ahmedabad has a world class public transport system which serves 44 million people and helps in saving 37 lakh tonnes of carbon emission. The state has country's biggest CNG and LNG infrastructure. Ahmedabad, which was derided as the most polluted city in 2003, was recognised as 'Green City' by the UN in 2009. But, Mahuva-pattern land satyagrahas alert us against the possibility of Gujarat becoming a mosaic of fragments of SEZ sub-states. All these have sculpted Gujarat's image as a geo-economic power. New coastal 'Silver Corridor' with the development arc between its two gulfs and knowledge corridor has wooed global players. Asian Tigers seek access to its ports for taking goods to the Middle East and Europe. Japanese township near Dholera and Koreans' near Valsad has raised the state's international profile. Gujaratis ask: "Miles to go, but compared to other states isn't our glass more than half full?" One of the city's most eminent political analysts, Pravin Sheth dissects the twists and turns of policy in Gujarat From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 14:33:30 2010 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:33:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GUJARAT ASSESSMENT BY PRAIN SHETH In-Reply-To: <000001cab6b6$705c9820$5115c860$@in> References: <000001cab6b6$705c9820$5115c860$@in> Message-ID: <341380d01002260103m1c0fce8aofaf7506a24f697f5@mail.gmail.com> Am i getting paid to read this? If yes, then then post some more. May be such awareness will boost the GDP even more for Government of gujarat with at least 100 others like me from this land, where people are arrested for opposing industries, will find now find a lucrative way to make money. On 2/26/10, Bipin wrote: > Why is Gujarat state No 1 > > Gujarat's GDP has been growing at 12 per cent, as fast as China's, under the > leadership of Chief Minister Narendra Modi; this has left many states behind > > By Pravin Sheth > > > > Though critical issues like unemployment, low indicators of social > development (HDI) and population living Below Poverty Line (BPL) cannot be > overlooked, it was persistent under all regimes. Modi and Health Minister J > N Vyas have floated several credible schemes to improve the state's > performance on HDI. The state government has also earmarked financial aid of > Rs 1,500 crore for 25 lakh poor families which will be delivered by 2010. > While 1.43 BPL families will get plots to build houses, about 2.59 lakh > families will be given houses before May 2011. Modi government aims at > providing jobs to 10 lakh youths, water supply to 12,000 villages and > electricity to 17,940 villages. > > > > http://www.ahmedabadmirror.com/article/59/2010022520100225030851448ca24ad6/W > hy-is-Gujarat-state-No-1.html > > > > Posted On Thursday, February 25, 2010 at 03:08:51 AM > > > > Not a month goes without news reports highlighting the achievement and > development of Gujarat. Reports on the recent developments evince that > Gujarat is a "happening state" which entitles it to be ranked first among > all Indian states. > > > > Agriculture scientist M S Swaminathan rightly puts it, "Gujarat owes it to a > scientific and integrated approach to agriculture during Narendra Modi's > tenure which is backed by a sharp vision." > > > > The initiative of Modi government to provide soil health cards to farmers > has brought second 'Green Revolution' in Gujarat. The state has now changed > gears to become an auto hub. After Tata, Hero Honda, the world's largest > two-wheeler maker, is set to establish a manufacturing unit in the state. > > > > Gujarat has highly diversified industries - from diamonds to denim, > fertilisers to pharmaceuticals, automobile to milk products, cotton, > art-silk, ceramics and oil seeds. Most of these industries have notched up > top slots in terms of production - in India and world alike. > > > > Gujarat contributes to 40 per cent of the country's pharma and art-silk > industries, 80 per cent of polished diamond industry and 11 per cent of the > world's chemical exports. The state government has formed a land bank of > 50,000 hectares for industrial houses to choose the sites online. > > > > For past 12 years, Gujarat's GDP (Gross Domestic Product) has been growing > at 12 per cent - as fast as China's. Gujaratis, who hold 30 per cent of > scrips floating in the market, account for 16 per cent of Indian exports and > 17 per cent of GDP. The state is India's petro-gas capital. Political > stability, entrepreneurial spirit and ever-improving infra-structure attract > capital and entrepreneurs from East Asia, the West and even from the Middle > East. Country's largest social base of business class of Banias, Parsis, > Khojas, Bohras constitutes Gujarat's business community. A > commercially-tuned culture and Modi's resourceful leadership have made > Gujarat the most "fast forward state of India". > > > > Though critical issues like unemployment, low indicators of social > development (HDI) and population living Below Poverty Line (BPL) cannot be > overlooked, it was persistent under all regimes. > > > > Modi and Health Minister J N Vyas have floated several credible schemes to > improve the state's performance on HDI. The state government has also > earmarked financial aid of Rs 1,500 crore for 25 lakh poor families which > will be delivered by 2010. While 1.43 BPL families will get plots to build > houses, about 2.59 lakh families will be given houses before May 2011. Modi > government aims at providing jobs to 10 lakh youths, water supply to 12,000 > villages and electricity to 17,940 villages. > > > > Also, the government departments will be graded according to their > performance in achieving the goal. The state has sanctioned Rs 1,000 crore > for Sakhi Mandals to micro-finance thousands of women. > > > > Gujarat has bagged several prestigious awards like UN Sasakawa Award for > disaster mitigation, CAPAM award for innovation in governance, UNESCO award, > CSI award for e-governance and Indiatech award in power sector. > > > > The state is front-runner in attracting industrial investment (MoUs). It is > first in implementing major health care services. Besides, availability and > utility of infrastructure and state-wide fibre-optic connectivity puts it on > world map. > > > > Gujarat's synergising relationship with its Diaspora demonstrates what > Gujarat has achieved under the Modi government. Clinton Foundation has > awarded Gujarat the world's largest solar plant and 34 solar projects are in > the pipeline. > > > > The state has the distinction of housing India's first tidal energy project > and the largest wind energy farm. Ahmedabad has a world class public > transport system which serves 44 million people and helps in saving 37 lakh > tonnes of carbon emission. The state has country's biggest CNG and LNG > infrastructure. Ahmedabad, which was derided as the most polluted city in > 2003, was recognised as 'Green City' by the UN in 2009. > > > > But, Mahuva-pattern land satyagrahas alert us against the possibility of > Gujarat becoming a mosaic of fragments of SEZ sub-states. > > > > All these have sculpted Gujarat's image as a geo-economic power. New coastal > 'Silver Corridor' with the development arc between its two gulfs and > knowledge corridor has wooed global players. Asian Tigers seek access to its > ports for taking goods to the Middle East and Europe. Japanese township near > Dholera and Koreans' near Valsad has raised the state's international > profile. Gujaratis ask: "Miles to go, but compared to other states isn't our > glass more than half full?" > > > > One of the city's most eminent political analysts, Pravin Sheth dissects the > twists and turns of policy in Gujarat > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 18:02:06 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:02:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Festival in Bangalore: Feb 26 - March 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Details here: http://artchutney.blogspot.com/ From bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 21:10:03 2010 From: bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com (Bangalore Film Society ,) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:10:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Entry: 5th International Water Film Festival Message-ID: *Voices from the Waters- 2010* *The 5**th** International Film Festival on Water* *CALL FOR ENTRIES* Bangalore Film Society, Arghyam, Svaraj- Society for Voluntary Action Revitalization and Justice, Finger Lakes Environmental Film Festival, Ithaca College, USA (FLEFF), Mountainfilm in Telluride, Alliance Francaise de Bangalore, Charter of Human Responsibilities, Samvada, Karnataka Chalanachitra Akademi and Water Journeys- Campaign for Fundamental Right to Water are organizing the fifth edition of the largest international film festival on water- *Voices from the Waters 2010*. 2010 begins as a critical year not just for ‘Voices from the Waters’ which completes five years of existence but for environmental consciousness on the whole, as the thoughts and concerns regarding the existence and well-being of our rivers and streams are now being voiced in the mainstream. Now more than ever, there is a call for awareness, dialogue and debate to inform the actions on which the survival of our lifeworlds depend. We are at an instant of much possibilities and hope. We are in search of the voices that will guide us to a critical departure from the current paradigms towards our vision of better futures. ‘Voices from the Waters 2010: The 5th International Film Festival on Water’, the biggest, most dynamic and diverse platform of its kind invites you to be a part of the festival by contributing short, documentary, animation and feature films on water and related issues. If you have a film in under any of the following categories: *Water Scarcity,* *The Dams and the Displaced,* *Water Harvest,* *Water Struggles/Conflicts,* *Floods and Droughts,* *Global Warming and Climate Change,* *Impact of Deforestation on Water Bodies,* *Water, Sanitation and Health,* *River Pollution,* *The Holistic Revival of Water Bodies,* *Water and Life.* You can consider sending it to us. Please note that the categories are loosely conceived and your film does not have to necessarily adhere to them while focusing on the larger theme of water. *Guidelines:* Entries to the Film Festival must include: 1. DVD of the film (*with English subtitles, if required*) 2. A completed and signed copy of the entry form 3. Three high-resolution stills of the film (*can be sent via email*) 4. A high-resolution photograph of the director (*can be sent via email*) Promotional materials are welcome There is no entry fee. All submitted films will be subject to a selection process by eminent members of the festival jury. Applicant must pay for shipment of films to Voices from the Waters. Submitted films will not be returned but will be part of Voices from the Waters library, one of the largest resources in the world for films on water. Voices from the Waters is conceived as a travelling film festival. The selected films after being premiered in Bangalore at the main event will be taken across to educational institutions, non governmental organizations, small towns and villages across India. Last date for submissions: June 15th 2010 Address: Bangalore Film Society No.33/1-9, Thygaraja Layout Jaibharath Nagar M.S. Nagar P.O Bangalore 560 033 Karnataka/India Mobile:+91-80-9448064513 www.voicesfromthewaters.com From bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 21:06:22 2010 From: bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com (Bangalore Film Society ,) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:06:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call For Entry: 5th International Water Film Festival Message-ID: *oices from the Waters- 2010* *The 5th International Film Festival on Water* *CALL FOR ENTRIES* Bangalore Film Society, Arghyam, Svaraj- Society for Voluntary Action Revitalization and Justice, Finger Lakes Environmental Film Festival, Ithaca College, USA (FLEFF), Mountainfilm in Telluride, Alliance Francaise de Bangalore, Charter of Human Responsibilities, Samvada, Karnataka Chalanachitra Akademi and Water Journeys- Campaign for Fundamental Right to Water are organizing the fifth edition of the largest international film festival on water- *Voices from the Waters 2010*. 2010 begins as a critical year not just for ‘Voices from the Waters’ which completes five years of existence but for environmental consciousness on the whole, as the thoughts and concerns regarding the existence and well-being of our rivers and streams are now being voiced in the mainstream. Now more than ever, there is a call for awareness, dialogue and debate to inform the actions on which the survival of our lifeworlds depend. We are at an instant of much possibilities and hope. We are in search of the voices that will guide us to a critical departure from the current paradigms towards our vision of better futures. ‘Voices from the Waters 2010: The 5th International Film Festival on Water’, the biggest, most dynamic and diverse platform of its kind invites you to be a part of the festival by contributing short, documentary, animation and feature films on water and related issues. If you have a film in under any of the following categories: *Water Scarcity,* *The Dams and the Displaced,* *Water Harvest,* *Water Struggles/Conflicts,* *Floods and Droughts,* *Global Warming and Climate Change,* *Impact of Deforestation on Water Bodies,* *Water, Sanitation and Health,* *River Pollution,* *The Holistic Revival of Water Bodies,* *Water and Life.* You can consider sending it to us. Please note that the categories are loosely conceived and your film does not have to necessarily adhere to them while focusing on the larger theme of water. *Guidelines:* Entries to the Film Festival must include: 1. DVD of the film (*with English subtitles, if required*) 2. A completed and signed copy of the entry form 3. Three high-resolution stills of the film (*can be sent via email*) 4. A high-resolution photograph of the director (*can be sent via email*) Promotional materials are welcome There is no entry fee. All submitted films will be subject to a selection process by eminent members of the festival jury. Applicant must pay for shipment of films to Voices from the Waters. Submitted films will not be returned but will be part of Voices from the Waters library, one of the largest resources in the world for films on water. Voices from the Waters is conceived as a travelling film festival. The selected films after being premiered in Bangalore at the main event will be taken across to educational institutions, non governmental organizations, small towns and villages across India. Last date for submissions: June 15th 2010 Address: Bangalore Film Society No.33/1-9, Thygaraja Layout Jaibharath Nagar M.S. Nagar P.O Bangalore 560 033 Karnataka/India Mobile:+91-80-9448064513 www.voicesfromthewaters.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Feb 27 10:51:08 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:51:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] More on Little Kashmiri Boys... Message-ID: Early Times, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2010 Was Bacha Khour gang chief¹s PSA revoked on CM¹s orders? Baramulla¹s Swat under tight scanner as Omar gives catch-or-quit option to Police AHMED ALI FAYYAZ SRINAGAR, Feb 24: Stone pelters who struck on the Rafiabad family and caused the death of an eleven-day-old infant on Monday last were not roaming around and unleashing a reign of terror without reason. Their chief had been held for rioting during the Shopian demonstrators last year and detained at a jail in Jammu but, according to residents, his PSA detention was withdrawn within a couple of months on Chief Minister Omar Abdullah¹s orders after intervention of a couple of National Conference (NC) leaders including a Minister of State. Members of this gang were conspicuously present at a valedictory function organized by Police in honour of the outgoing Deputy Commissioner, Lateef-uz-Zamaan Dewa, and SSP, Viplab Kumar, over a month ago. On Tuesday, they audaciously called local cable operators and warned them of ³dire consequences² if they dared to play a tape that would have identified the ruffians responsible for the infant¹s death. Residents of the ³liberated² Baramulla town, who call themselves the ³silent majority² and claim to be 99 percent of the population, made harrowing disclosures with regard to the identification of the ruffians and rioters involved in the killing of an eleven-day-old infant in his mother¹s lap earlier this week. ³Police are just beating about the bush. They have no intention of arresting the killers², said a senior citizen and influential businessman who claimed that Police had complete knowledge of the ³most wanted² faces who have been holding the old town of 30,000 inhabitants hostage with stone pelting since the Amarnath land controversy of 2008. ³Old town across the bridge (over river Jhelum) has become like Swat and Wazeeristan. Stone pelters, whose number is less than 100, and their sympathizers have been enjoying a field day here as Police or security forces never venture into this liberated zone², a 60-year-old trader observed. None of these hapless citizens is prepared to be identified in media. They have a reason. ³During last year¹s Shopian clashes, these people not only occupied SRTC¹s yard and raised their own shops but they also dismantled the business centers of Beopar Mandal President and General Secretary in full knowledge of the National Conference-led coalition government², revealed a resident. If these representatives of the suppressed civil society are to be believed, even after Chief Minister¹s serious concern over the infant¹s killing, Police or security forces have neither conducted any raids nor given any indication of arresting the gangsters. According to them, entire Old Town, comprising Tauheed Gunj, Jamia, Qazi Hamam, Kakkar Haham, Jalal Sahab, Ganai Hamam, Syed Kareem, Bangla Bagh, Azad Gunj, Iqbal Colony, Stadium Colony, Armpora, Bagh-e-Islam, Suhail Colony, Qadeem Iddgah, Khwaja Sahab, Mir Sahab, Drangbal and Khandanyar mohalls, is completely ³out-of-bounds² for Police and security forces. (Late night reports, however, said that Police trooped into the old town in search of the stone pelters involved in the death of the infant after Chief Minister Omar Abdullah asked the authorities in Baramulla to either capture the ruffians or quit. Sources said, CM has made it a point to get the ruffians arrested and reveal it during his reply to the discussion on Governor¹s address in Legislative Assembly at 1600 hours on Thursday). Residents revealed that on Tuesday, Police arrested two boys of 12 years of age from among a group of stone pelters who disclosed during questioning that those very people, who had been arrested last year but later released in a couple of months, had not only organized the clash but also intercepted the minibus at Chakla, in Baramulla town outskirts, and caused the death of the ill-fated baby. One of the Police officials confirmed, on the condition of anonymity, that the detained boys, who were later handed over to their parents, had identified Raju Chraloo, Meena Kumari and Itchguard (real names not known) as the key handlers of the stone pelting and clashes with Police. He said that Police got both the boys¹ statements recorded on tape. ³Within minutes, local cable operators received threatening calls from telephone numbers 9697982050 and 9858773617, warning them of dire consequences if they played the feed on their networks², Police sources said. They said owners of both the mobile phones were present on the valedictory function that had been organized by Police in honour of the outgoing DC and SSP last month. Inquiries further revealed that the man, who was identified as ³kingpin² of the gang by the detained boys, had been arrested and detained under PSA at a jail in Jammu last year. However, on the intervention of two of the NC leaders, including a Minister of State, Chralu¹s PSA was withdrawn on the orders from Home Department within two months. None other than Chief Minister happens to be the Home Minister in Jammu & Kashmir. One of the cable operators confirmed that he had removed the tape after he received threatening calls from two different telephones. ³Everybody in the town is scared. The common impression is that these gangsters are not only hand-in-glove with separatists and militants but also with officers in Police and security forces and even Ministers in the coalition government², he added. He said that a civil society group, called Falah-ud-Darain, had succeeded in building up some resistance against the criminal gangs but given up as the operators publicly boasted of their connections with Government officials and politicians. According to the residents, members of the gang have diversified their ³business² and organized groups of street criminals. Even an influential Jamaat-e-Islami activist and President of Beopar Mandal, Abdul Rehman Shalla, failed to take on the gang after they caused extensive damage to his shop and threatened ³further action². Meanwhile, in a statement issued from New Delhi, hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who had proudly eulogized and supported the stone pelters last year and until yesterday, has also distanced himself from this anarchical mode pf ³resistance² and condemned the killing of an infant in Baramulla by the rioters. According to KNS, Geelani has taken a volte face and expressed concern that anarchical stone pelting would lead the Kashmiris to a very dangerous situation. END From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Feb 27 11:23:53 2010 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:23:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 5 water buffaloes, 50, 000 sheep and thousands of chicken slaughtered Message-ID: AsiaNews Karnataka: non-Hindus not allowed to kill cows, Hindus can slaughter animals in ritual sacrifice Nirmala Carvalho 02/26/2010 13:35 A bill would ban the killing of cows, a holy animal for Hindus. Hindu extremist groups are in favour of the move, but not the members of other religions. At a ceremony in honour of a Hindu deity, buffaloes, sheep and chicken are killed in a ritual sacrifice. Mangalore (AsiaNews) ­ Modern India¹s reality was most visible recently in the southern State of Karnataka as two events highlight the country¹s contradictions. In one case, thousands of animals were killed as part of a traditional Hindu religious ceremony; in the other, protesters took to the streets to urge the State government to stop a bill that would ban the killing of cows. On Wednesday, about 100,000 people gathered in Davangere District to share in a bloody ritual involving tens of thousands of animals. The next day in Mangalore, thousands of demonstrators rallied against a bill that would outlaw killing cows. The anti-bill rally was organised by the ŒMovement for the Protection of Indian Food Culture¹. Demonstrators walked by government buildings, calling on the authorities to safeguard the interests of all citizens, including non-vegetarians, and drop its proposed piece of legislation. According to a local political leader, A K Subbayya, the bill is designed to indulge the Sangh Parivar, a Hindu social movement that promotes the purity of Hinduism and a return to religious absolutism. Sangh Parivar militants believe cows to be divine. ³This is why the bill does not take into account the views of non-vegetarians and non-Hindus. Sangh has vested interests, including economic ones, in imposing vegetarianism. If it gets away with it, in a few years they will get some other animal protected as holy.² ³It is wrong to think that only Muslims and Christians oppose the anti-cow slaughter bill,² Subbayya noted. ³The BJP government should know that there are a lot of members from the lower castes, including Dalits, who have been eating cow meat for centuries. [. . .] What is wrong with that? What will cow owners do with their animals² if the bill is approved? In the meantime, the early dawn on Wednesday saw a vast sea of Hindus gather in Davangere to watch the arrival of the severed head of a buffalo that had been killed inside the Sridurgambika Temple. In order to appease the goddess, one of the Hindu deities, five water buffaloes, 50,000 sheep and thousands of chicken were slaughtered. Since a ban on slaughtering is in place at present, Hindu worshippers cut the buffalo at an undisclosed place and brought it to the temple. During the transfer, a former minister applied blood to his forehead. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sat Feb 27 23:26:31 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:26:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Community Radio in rural Madhya Pradesh Message-ID: http://www.unicef.org/india/education_5964.htm Ramvati Adivasi didn’t let the fact that she can’t read or write stand in the way of her burgeoning radio career. Today she’s conducting interviews, editing programmes on the computer and performing scripts as a member of a newly inaugurated local radio station, Dharkan 107.8 FM. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sun Feb 28 10:48:03 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:48:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Children from Shibumi school in Bangalore engage with Kabir through various art forms Message-ID: Read the blog post here: http://shibuminews.blogspot.com/2010/02/day-with-kabir_27.html If this sparks off ideas about interesting possibilities in your own school or learning space, get in touch with the Kabir Project at Srishti School of Art, Design and Technology in Bangalore. And of course, let me know :) Chintan From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sun Feb 28 14:03:11 2010 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:03:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chauraha Poetry Reading by Hoshang Merchant - Tue. 2 March, Mumbai Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Arundhathi Subramaniam Date: Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 1:38 PM Subject: Chauraha Poetry Reading by Hoshang Merchant - Tue. 2 March To: asubramaniam at ncpamumbai.com Dear Friends, Do come for this reading on the 2nd of March at 6.30 pm at the AV Room. Warm regards, Arundhathi ______________________________________________________________________ *Hoshang Merchant* English Poetry Reading Tue. March 2nd – 6.30 PM Audio Visual Room This is a CHAURAHA presentation. Born in 1947, Hoshang Merchant studied in Mumbai and later obtained a Masters degree from Occidental College, Los Angeles. His book on Anais Nin, *In-discretions*, earned him a Ph.D. from Purdue University in 1981. He helped establish the Gay Liberation at Purdue, and after leaving the university in 1975, he attended the Province Town Fine Arts Work Centre, Massachusetts, and lived and taught in Heidelberg, Iran and Jerusalem where he was exposed to various radical student movements of the Left. He has studied Buddhism at the Tibetan Library at Dharamsala, North India, as well as Islam in Iran and Palestine. He has published eight books of poetry with Writers Workshop. Rupa and Co. published his book of poems, *Flower to Flame,* in 1992. Currently he teaches Poetry and Surrealism at Hyderabad University. Hoshang will read from his varied collections of poetry as well as more recent work. The reading will be followed by a discussion with the poet, moderated by poet *Jane Bhandari*. Admission free on a first-come-first-served basis. From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Feb 28 15:21:34 2010 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:21:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art Karavan International: update Message-ID: <47e122a71002280151p7c174a7ay91d50e8734099617@mail.gmail.com> Dear all Plz click to see some images on the blog http://artkaravan.wordpress.com other detail will appear soon, we are right now in Ranchi city please comment, join or even help us to improve our concept design with love and regards inder salim -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Feb 26 16:38:13 2010 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de ([artNET}) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:08:13 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_netEX_-_calls_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_deadlines_--=3E_March_2010?= Message-ID: <20100226120813.D9273996.FC2DFBF3@192.168.0.2> netEX: calls & deadlines -->MARCH 2010 ------------------------------------- NewMediafest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne ------------------------------------- newsletter contents a) . news b) calls & deadlines --> 04 Calls: 2010 deadlines internal 29 Calls: March 2010 deadlines external 11 Calls: ongoing external/internal ------------------------------------------------ a) news NewMediaFest'2010 10 Years [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne global heritage of digital culture 1 January -31 December 2010 http://2010.newmediafest.org includes in March following venues --> 12 March Manipulated Image @ The Complex Santa Fe (USA) For the Action's Sake - screening event co-curated by Alysse Stepanian and Agricola de Cologne http://manipulatedimage.com/ 11 - 14 March Traverse Video Festival Toulouse/F 3 videos by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne http://www.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog/?p=541 14 March Oslo Screen Festival - http://www.screenfestival.no Presentation CologneOFF V Agricola de Cologne's video "Silent Cry" http://movingpictures.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog?page_id=47 participates in 11 - 28 March - VideoFormes Clermont-Ferrand/F 12 - 14 March - Oslo Screen Festival Norway - ------------------------------------------------ b) Calls & deadlines ---> ------------------------------------------------ 2010: deadlines internal ------------------------------------------------ NewMediaFest'2010 has currently 4 calls running CologneOFF VI - Let's Celebrate! - deadline 5 April 2010 Call for film & videoart 5 Years Cologne Online Film Festival http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1907 VideoChannel - deadline 2 March 2010 [self] ~imaging - artists portraying themselves in film & video http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1852 NewMediaFest'2010 VideoChannel - deadline 2 April 2010 One Minute Films of OMFC (One Minute Film Collection) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=447 NewMediaFest'2010 *ongoing deadline 1 September 2009 - 1 September 2010 Java Museum - Forum for internet Technology in Contemporary Art will be celebrating in 2010 its 10th anniversary and is looking for Internet based art from the years 2000-2010 details, regulations and entry form can be found on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1428 ------------------------------------------------ March 2010 deadlines: external ------------------------------------------------ 31 March Les Ateliers de Rennes - Contemporary Art Biennale Rennes/F http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1979 31 March Time Film Festival - Lausanne/Switzerland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2076 31 March International Art Cinema Festival Bergamo/It http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2041 31 March Sardinia Film Festival Sassari-Sardinia/IT http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2035 31 March Fonlad #06-2010 - online digital art festival http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2087 31 March Media Poetry Competition http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1930 27 March Euganea Film Festival Padova/italy http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2005 26 March Art By Chance Festival - ultra short film festival http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2002 19 March The Eye Kea project Cork/Ireland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2067 15 March Imagine - Towards an Eco_Aesthetic - Aarhus/DK http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2073 15 March Advertising Life - Azyl Short Film Fest Bratislava/SK http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2032 15 March Digital Graffiti Festival - Alys Beach - Florida/USA http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1995 14 March UAVM - Virtual Worlds http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2084 10 March DOCVILLE - Documetary Film Festival Leuven/Belgium http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1970 10 March Breizh Entropy Congress - Rennes/France http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2021 10 March Arthouse Film and Video Festival Tampa/Florida http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2063 10 March Interactive sculpture project http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1726 6 March She-Story - New Media Gallery Zadar/Croatia http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2080 5 March Art Video Screening Orebro/Sweden http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1841 5 March I-Motions - Means of Emotions http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2054 5 March FILE Symposion 2010 Sao Paulo/Brazil http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2044 5 March Prix Ars Electronica Linz/Austria http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1976 5 March FILE Prix Lux Sao Paulo/Brazil http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1982 3 March Open Space/Singapore/Southeast Asia http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2096 2 March [self] ~imaging - artists portraying themselves in film and video http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1852 1 March Ms.Use - online platform http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2057 1 March Pocket Film Festival Paris /F http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1999 1 March Arteles Artist Residency Finland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=2018 1 March Festival Image Contre Nature - Marseille/F http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1785 1 March - extended deadline 2nd International Video art ExhibitionTaiwan Taipeh/TW 2010 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1753 ----------------------------------------------- Ongoing calls: external/internal ----------------------------------------------- ---> SFC - Shoah Film Collection by VideoChannel & A Virtual Memorial Foundation ---> Selfshadows 2.= - net based project by Javier Bedrina -->Videos for Bivouac Projects Sumter/USA -->OUTCASTING - web based screenings -->Films and video screenings Sioux City (USA) -->Laisle screenings Rio de Janeiro/Brazil -->Videos for Helsinki based video gallery - 00130 Gallery -->Web based works for 00130 Gallery Helsinki/Finland -->Project: Repetition as a Model for Progression by Marianne Holm Hansen -->US webjournal Atomic Unicorn seeks netart and video art for coming editions -->TAGallery and more deadlines on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?page_id=4 ----------------------------------------------- NetEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net # calls in the external section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=3 # calls in the internal section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=1 ----------------------------------------------- # This newsletter is also released on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=9 # netEX - networked experiences is a free information service powered by [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany # info & contact: info (at) nmartproject.net _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements